**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 08 02:59:57 2007
Nov 08 03:01:11 <bgm> anyone working on porting gobby?
Nov 08 03:01:58 <bgm> I might give it a try, altough I'm not quite sure to which extent it may work (many dependancies)
Nov 08 03:20:37 <skibur> just finished applying new screen protector
Nov 08 03:20:39 <skibur> lol
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 08 04:01:32 2007
Nov 08 04:13:32 <Galoot> Does anyone here know if there's a way to get xsupplicant working on a Nokia 770?
Nov 08 04:13:37 <lord_moonraker> Greetings
Nov 08 04:14:02 <skibur> hum...
Nov 08 04:14:06 <skibur> xsupplicant?
Nov 08 04:14:36 <Galoot> yeah. my college's wireless network uses dynampic WEP 802.1x encryption
Nov 08 04:14:55 <Galoot> I've been googling this thing for the better part of the last week, but can't seem to find a solution
Nov 08 04:15:07 <Galoot> I tried using wpa_supplicant, but that didn't work :(
Nov 08 04:15:55 <skibur> I see
Nov 08 04:16:20 <lord_moonraker> http://www.broadbandresource.net/?s=authentication
Nov 08 04:17:44 <Galoot> the official wireless instruction page is here: http://www.slu.edu/x7032.xml
Nov 08 04:17:54 <Galoot> moonraker, that link doesn't work for me
Nov 08 04:18:07 <Galoot> as in, it takes me to a google page
Nov 08 04:18:16 <fysa> is xchat it for irc?
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 08 04:20:19 2007
Nov 08 04:22:02 <fysa> i mean are there real ui-based alternatives -- it doesn't feel 'quite' perfect
Nov 08 04:22:04 <Galoot> hrm. I wonder if it would be possible to compile open1x for the tablet http://sourceforge.net/projects/open1x/
Nov 08 04:23:31 <skibur> have you tried Galoot  ---> http://www.penguintown.net/~gorlik/n770.html
Nov 08 04:23:50 <Galoot> yeah, that's the wpa_supplicant I tried earlier
Nov 08 04:24:16 <skibur> no results?
Nov 08 04:24:34 <fysa> disabling quit/join would be nice.  it's very usable with bitlbee and the side (thumb-accessible) tabs are nice.
Nov 08 04:24:38 <skibur> you are root
Nov 08 04:24:55 <Galoot> it'll give me a "connected with link-local ip address" message, with a question mark on the wireless icon
Nov 08 04:25:02 <Galoot> yeah, it won't run otherwise
Nov 08 04:25:14 <Galoot> and I try for a browser, and it doesn't work
Nov 08 04:25:22 <skibur> wpa-supplicant
Nov 08 04:25:22 <_Monkey> wpa-supplicant is not playing nice.
Nov 08 04:27:01 <Galoot> there is one thing, when I run his instructions as shown, it comes up with a couple errors. one sec, lemme run it again and tell you what they are
Nov 08 04:27:39 <skibur> ok
Nov 08 04:30:06 <Galoot> ioctl[SIOCSIWPMKA]: No such device
Nov 08 04:30:21 <skibur> hum..
Nov 08 04:30:34 <Galoot> ioctl[SIOCSIWAUTH]: Operation not supported
Nov 08 04:30:52 <skibur> might need new libs
Nov 08 04:31:01 <Galoot> three instances of  ioctl[SIOCSIWENCODEEXT]: Operation not supported
Nov 08 04:31:17 <Galoot> and ioctl[SIOCSIWAUTH]: Operation not supported again
Nov 08 04:32:05 <Galoot> I get that from running the /usr/sbin/wpa_supplicant -iwlan0 -c /etc/wpa_sup.conf -B command as root from the penguintown.net walkthrough
Nov 08 04:32:42 <Galoot> I made sure to edit the config file, and put the certificate in the right place
Nov 08 04:34:52 <Galoot> is there anything special I have to do to compile programs for the tablet? I've just been using downloadable package files so far
Nov 08 04:35:21 <Galoot> if I can get open1x (http://open1x.sourceforge.net/) to work, that may help
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 08 04:35:58 2007
Nov 08 04:36:52 <skibur> hum...
Nov 08 04:37:38 <skibur> honestly, I really can't think of anything on your issue
Nov 08 04:37:46 <skibur> it should of just worked
Nov 08 04:38:01 <Galoot> yeah, I know. my campus wireless is really picky though :(
Nov 08 04:38:05 <skibur> How long have you had a N770?
Nov 08 04:38:24 <Galoot> I work for the IT department here and it took me two full weeks to get ubuntu to connect to it
Nov 08 04:38:32 <Galoot> a few months
Nov 08 04:38:49 <skibur> My opinion, get a N800
Nov 08 04:38:49 <Galoot> I just this week figured out how to access a root terminal
Nov 08 04:39:07 <skibur> IT
Nov 08 04:39:12 <skibur> Where at?
Nov 08 04:39:32 <Galoot> saint louis university
Nov 08 04:39:59 <skibur> IT tech / Work Study  Texas A&M University-Kingsville
Nov 08 04:40:12 <skibur> slackware user
Nov 08 04:40:12 <Galoot> sweet
Nov 08 04:40:26 <skibur> So you also have Ticket Qs?
Nov 08 04:40:28 <Galoot> how is slackware? I've heard good things about it
Nov 08 04:40:41 <Galoot> ticket Qs?
Nov 08 04:40:57 <Galoot> as in, IT support ticket requests?
Nov 08 04:41:11 <skibur> Slackware is a "I keeping this S**t simple" distro.
Nov 08 04:41:14 <skibur> its great
Nov 08 04:41:41 <skibur> now with 2.6 kernel, it can now hang even better with the newest distro like Ubuntu
Nov 08 04:41:42 <Galoot> I'm actually a big fan of ubuntu lately, especially with the new release
Nov 08 04:41:46 <skibur> yeah
Nov 08 04:42:26 <Galoot> are there any other alternative OSes to put on the tablet?
Nov 08 04:42:56 <Galoot> alternative distros, I should say
Nov 08 04:42:58 <skibur> I think Wal-mart will be selling $200 PC with gOS (Ubuntu Based) installed on Black Friday sell
Nov 08 04:43:01 <Galoot> linux is the only way to go ^_^
Nov 08 04:43:04 <skibur> you should take a look at it
Nov 08 04:43:26 <Galoot> sadly, I'm sticking with winblows on my desktop for now
Nov 08 04:43:28 <skibur> :)
Nov 08 04:43:37 <Galoot> I play a ton of games
Nov 08 04:43:43 <skibur> I C
Nov 08 04:43:48 <Galoot> and the support just isn't there yet, especially for older ones
Nov 08 04:43:50 <skibur> Windows is great for games
Nov 08 04:44:08 <lord_moonrake1> Hi galoot, did u get more info on the 802.1x?
Nov 08 04:44:17 <Galoot> but I've got ubuntu on my laptop, had it that way for more than a year now and it still hasn't given me any lip
Nov 08 04:44:31 <skibur> yeah
Nov 08 04:44:33 <skibur> cool
Nov 08 04:44:35 <Galoot> moonrake: no :(
Nov 08 04:45:43 <Galoot> I looked at the source files for open1x (http://open1x.sourceforge.net/), but I have no idea about how to go about compiling that for the nokia
Nov 08 04:46:05 <lord_moonrake1> K, is this a vpn to join into ur univ?
Nov 08 04:46:20 <Galoot> no, it's a campus-wide wireless network
Nov 08 04:46:40 <Galoot> linux config instructions here:http://www.slu.edu/x7032.xml
Nov 08 04:46:49 <lord_moonrake1> Can a router  connect to it?
Nov 08 04:46:51 <Galoot> if that gives any insight as to the setup of the network
Nov 08 04:47:03 <Galoot> I can get connected to it just fine with ubuntu
Nov 08 04:47:26 <Galoot> I can't get the 770 to do it though, because it's a dynamic WEP encryption
Nov 08 04:48:53 <Galoot> I tried the wpa-supplicant instructions at http://www.penguintown.net/~gorlik/n770.html
Nov 08 04:48:56 <Galoot> but those didn't work
Nov 08 04:49:16 <lord_moonrake1> A workaround, Do u have a wifi router? Then u can connect ur machine to router &
Nov 08 04:49:29 <lord_moonrake1> N770 to the router
Nov 08 04:49:52 <lord_moonrake1> And ur pc can act as gateway. >
Nov 08 04:50:05 <Galoot> no, I don't have one, but I do have a couple friends that do, and that works when I'm over at their place
Nov 08 04:50:33 <Galoot> since the wireless is available anywhere on campus though, I'd like to be able to get it to access it
Nov 08 04:50:47 <lord_moonrake1> K. To compile u need to get scratchbox
Nov 08 04:51:31 <Galoot> linux only, I assume?
Nov 08 04:51:47 <Galoot> I'm running windoze on my desktop, but I've got ubuntu on my laptop
Nov 08 04:52:01 <lord_moonrake1> Yes, will work in ubuntu
Nov 08 04:52:21 <Galoot> alrighty. I'll see if I can compile open1x to work with maemo
Nov 08 04:53:15 <lord_moonrake1> Scratchbox is a lil hard to install...
Nov 08 04:53:16 <GeneralAntilles> The 770 is not an N-series device, therefore, there is no such thing as a "N770". ;)
Nov 08 04:53:40 <Galoot> huh. didn't know that
Nov 08 04:54:21 <Galoot> I'm pretty skilled when it comes to making things work, given the right tools
Nov 08 04:54:39 <Galoot> I just can't find a version of xsupplicant that'll work with the 770 >.<
Nov 08 04:54:45 <lord_moonrake1> http://inz.fi/blog/2007/10/22/multi-target-development-for-maemo/
Nov 08 04:55:51 <Galoot> hoo boy. this might have to wait till the weekend, it looks pretty involved
Nov 08 04:58:03 <Galoot> I'm amazed no one has come up with a solution to this yet, I've read about tons of people having the same problem
Nov 08 04:58:31 <lord_moonrake1> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/InstallVPNC
Nov 08 04:59:49 <Galoot> is that last one to put any concoctions I manage to come up with onto the nokia?
Nov 08 05:00:52 * fysa test
Nov 08 05:01:31 <lord_moonrake1> I am not  sure what u meant ,but i think it details on how to login to 802.1x
Nov 08 05:02:13 <Galoot> that one is about vpn connections from my nokia, doesn't say anything about connecting to 802.1x wireless :-/
Nov 08 05:03:17 <lord_moonrake1> Well i got it from this thread http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1252
Nov 08 05:03:54 <Galoot> I'll have to ask if it's possible to connect to the wifi here with a vpn client
Nov 08 05:04:58 <Galoot> awesome find on that forum though, it sounds like that's a bunch of people having the same problem
Nov 08 05:06:38 <lord_moonrake1> As i understand 802.1x is network access control
Nov 08 05:07:57 <lord_moonrake1> & u need a vpnc like cisco, xsupplicant, open1x to do the auth
Nov 08 05:14:18 <lord_moonrake1> i am creating an pygtk app. It works fine from the command line, but when launch ed from menu it just disappears
Nov 08 05:14:34 <lord_moonrake1> After some time..
Nov 08 05:15:19 <lord_moonrake1> How can i watch error message s of gui apps?
Nov 08 05:18:02 <Galoot> is there a way I can access the file system from the file manager?
Nov 08 05:18:15 <lord_moonrake1> U mean /
Nov 08 05:18:25 <Galoot> yeah
Nov 08 05:18:34 <Galoot> not just the documents folder and stuff
Nov 08 05:18:53 <lord_moonrake1> I do it using xterminal
Nov 08 05:19:21 <Galoot> yeah, but vi is damnably hard to use on the tablet
Nov 08 05:19:32 <Galoot> what's the name of the default text editor then?
Nov 08 05:19:37 <Galoot> so I can edit a config file
Nov 08 05:21:23 <lord_moonrake1> There is a configuration editor
Nov 08 05:21:27 <lord_moonrake1> Gconf
Nov 08 05:21:37 <Galoot> oooh
Nov 08 05:22:18 <Galoot> not found. is that an extra installation?
Nov 08 05:22:35 <lord_moonrake1> Let me check
Nov 08 05:27:46 <lord_moonrake1> Could u google it out? Very hard 2 search in n800 keyboard. >>
Nov 08 05:27:58 <Galoot> yeah, I can have a look
Nov 08 05:28:15 <Galoot> I actually just copied it over to my laptop to play with
Nov 08 05:28:18 <Galoot> it's a .xml anyway
Nov 08 05:28:32 <Galoot> gotta figure out how to change these settings
Nov 08 05:28:38 <Galoot> http://62.61.85.167/platform/docs/howtos/howto_connectivity_guide.html
Nov 08 05:28:43 <Galoot> under WLAN settings
Nov 08 05:29:02 <Galoot> if I can change some of those values, I may be able to make it work
Nov 08 05:30:26 <lord_moonrake1> K,I am trying to get my app to work from menu, but it just vanishes after a couple of seconds :(
Nov 08 05:33:45 <skibur> hello
Nov 08 05:33:55 <skibur> is WiMax a Chip?
Nov 08 05:34:59 <lord_moonrake1> Ya i guess its hardware
Nov 08 05:35:08 <skibur> I was reading the Wiki on N800, and under connectivity, WiMAX will be available 2008?  If true, do I have to ve the WiMAX chip since my N800 is not WiMAx enabled?
Nov 08 05:35:34 <skibur> s/ve/buy
Nov 08 05:37:25 <GeneralAntilles> You have to buy the WIMAX version.
Nov 08 05:37:34 <Rask330> Hi, maemo. ^^;  Me again.  Is there anything else that the N800 can use for videoconferencing besides "internet call"?  For some reason it isn't working with GTalk.
Nov 08 05:37:36 <Robot101_> skibur: I think it means a new product will be released that includes wimax
Nov 08 05:37:42 <GeneralAntilles> None of the currently available models have WIMAX
Nov 08 05:37:52 <Robot101> an N810++ or something :)
Nov 08 05:37:56 <lord_moonrake1> Oh can u give the LinK?
Nov 08 05:38:19 <skibur> :(
Nov 08 05:38:19 <|R> 8GB miniSD is too small :(
Nov 08 05:38:56 <lord_moonrake1> U can use gizmo foor video
Nov 08 05:39:03 <skibur> not even N810?
Nov 08 05:39:25 <GeneralAntilles> To what?
Nov 08 05:39:32 <lord_moonrake1> U need beta version 4.0.306
Nov 08 05:40:08 <GeneralAntilles> [12:37am] <GeneralAntilles> None of the currently available models have WIMAX
Nov 08 05:40:50 <Robot101> Rask330: does google talk have video support?
Nov 08 05:41:10 <GeneralAntilles> from N800 to N800
Nov 08 05:41:14 <Rask330> Robot101:  Does it?  I thought it had to...
Nov 08 05:41:34 <Robot101> I think the gtalk clients just do voice
Nov 08 05:41:34 <Rask330> I mean, given that it's built in.
Nov 08 05:41:37 <Rask330> hm.
Nov 08 05:41:49 <Rask330> What N800 protocols support video?
Nov 08 05:41:56 <Robot101> the N800 can do gtalk, and video between N800s (or other Jingle clients, of which I can't think of any)
Nov 08 05:42:06 <Rask330> Hm.
Nov 08 05:42:11 <Rask330> Skype video doesn't work either...
Nov 08 05:42:11 <Robot101> the SIP should be able to do video
Nov 08 05:42:24 <Rask330> SIP?
Nov 08 05:42:32 <|R> yeah never got jingle working with a linux (PC) client :(
Nov 08 05:42:41 <Robot101> |R: which ones did you try?
Nov 08 05:42:44 <Robot101> btw..
Nov 08 05:42:52 <lord_moonrake1> Rask;I have tested gizzmo v4.0.0.82in n800 & 4.0.0.306 in windwos to use Vidoe chat
Nov 08 05:42:59 <|R> empathy wouldn't start, and uhm, wait let me check :P
Nov 08 05:43:04 <Rask330> lord_moonrake1:  What's the windows-side client, though?
Nov 08 05:43:15 <lord_moonrake1> Gizmo 306
Nov 08 05:43:21 <Robot101> |R: video calling's not quite ready in empathy unfortunately :(
Nov 08 05:43:38 <Rask330> Mmm... is there any way to get video on Skype on the N800?
Nov 08 05:43:46 <|R> a gnome one and a kde one also (can't find name, keep searching... ;)
Nov 08 05:44:14 <lord_moonrake1> Rask; skype has launched linux vido
Nov 08 05:44:40 <lord_moonrake1> Maybe they will come oout for n800 too
Nov 08 05:44:44 <Rask330> Ah.
Nov 08 05:44:49 <Rask330> I guess skype's protocol is closed?
Nov 08 05:44:55 <Robot101> somewhat :D
Nov 08 05:45:08 <|R> Robot101 : kopete for kde
Nov 08 05:45:16 * Rask330 hms.
Nov 08 05:45:25 <Rask330> Is Gizmo the only option for video chat on the N800?
Nov 08 05:46:36 <lord_moonrake1> For now, i believe that is the only opTion to video chat with non n800
Nov 08 05:46:54 <Rask330> Mm.. that's kind of a downer.
Nov 08 05:47:13 <lord_moonrake1> There was a windows gtalk plugin
Nov 08 05:47:24 <lord_moonrake1> Called festoon
Nov 08 05:47:49 <Robot101> when OS2008 comes out, video calling to various SIP clients should work
Nov 08 05:48:21 <Rask330> I hope Skype gets it together with the N800.  It could really make it a much hotter product.
Nov 08 05:48:50 <|R> Robot101 : through which protocol?
Nov 08 05:48:52 * Robot101 would rather improve interoperability of the open protocols...
Nov 08 05:49:08 * |R agrees with Robot101 
Nov 08 05:49:09 <Robot101> |R: well... SIP. :)
Nov 08 05:49:15 <|R> SIP has a video standard? :)
Nov 08 05:49:33 <|R> well, RTP i should ask i guess ;)
Nov 08 05:50:16 <lord_moonrake1> Anyone know how to see messages given out bY apps in maemo?
Nov 08 05:50:16 <Robot101> |R: right, it just does RTP with video codecs
Nov 08 05:50:32 <lord_moonrake1> I am trying to get my pygtk app to work from menu, but it just vanishes after a couple of seconds
Nov 08 05:51:03 <|R> Robot101 : is there already a widely deployed hardware base for that? (Like G729, G711 for voice, what would the video codec be?)
Nov 08 05:51:42 <|R> ah, gossip is the one i tried on the gnome front...
Nov 08 05:52:44 <Robot101> |R: H263 and H263+ are reasonably common video codecs
Nov 08 05:52:49 <|R> ok :)
Nov 08 05:53:02 <Robot101> |R: H263 is what the N800 uses
Nov 08 05:53:06 <|R> it's net split galore tonight
Nov 08 05:53:14 <|R> oh ok :)
Nov 08 05:53:16 <Robot101> it doesn't actually have enough CPU power to do H263 very well
Nov 08 05:53:26 <Robot101> iChat and friends use H264 which is like MPEG4
Nov 08 05:53:51 <|R> as long as we can mix :)
Nov 08 05:54:09 <|R> just wondering if i'll be able to have video chat with my gf in mars ... ;)
Nov 08 05:55:00 <lord_moonrake1> It runs fine when launched from command line. Might be a libosso problem :( https://garage.maemo.org/projects/pyaxelwii
Nov 08 05:55:49 <|R> now we need a shrinked down Wii controller that fits in the stylus :P
Nov 08 05:55:57 <|R> is the n810 stylus the same?
Nov 08 05:56:22 <Robot101> no it's not triangular like the N800, more rounded
Nov 08 05:56:52 * |R better not loose his stulus...
Nov 08 05:57:08 <Robot101> anyway, its like 6am, time for me to sleep
Nov 08 05:57:23 <|R> a+ :)
Nov 08 05:57:33 <|R> erm, cya in english rather ;)
Nov 08 05:59:42 <lord_moonrake1> What is equivalent of Xwindows in maemo?
Nov 08 06:00:57 <Rask330> Hrm... in Gizmo, how do you get it to use video?
Nov 08 06:01:58 <lord_moonrake1> Do u have v82?
Nov 08 06:02:24 <lord_moonrake1> U just dial, it comes automatically
Nov 08 06:02:29 <Rask330> V82?
Nov 08 06:02:31 <Rask330> What is V82?
Nov 08 06:02:41 <Rask330> I don't see any options here for video.
Nov 08 06:02:48 <lord_moonrake1> Gizmo v4.0.0.82
Nov 08 06:02:56 <lord_moonrake1> For maemo
Nov 08 06:03:16 <Rask330> ..Nope, I have the one I downloaded off the link that came with it.  X)  Where do you get the later version?
Nov 08 06:03:39 <lord_moonrake1> Latest doesnt have video, they just got this particular version with video
Nov 08 06:03:53 <Rask330> Oh.
Nov 08 06:03:58 <Rask330> Where do you get the version with video?
Nov 08 06:06:34 <lord_moonrake1> I had googlEd it out, not sure now,http://www.flickr.com/photos/dikstorm/1303912998/
Nov 08 06:07:12 <lord_moonrake1> Some one had put it up on an online file sharing
Nov 08 06:07:42 <R[a]sk> Mm, nevermind... it seems like it's a relatively unstable beta.
Nov 08 06:09:43 <lord_moonrake1> Ya, well i do use it once in a while..
Nov 08 06:10:40 <R[a]sk> I'm just gonna wait for something stable to come out.
Nov 08 06:10:54 <lord_moonrake1> :)
Nov 08 06:11:34 <lord_moonrake1> Do u have a wii controller?
Nov 08 06:14:32 <lord_moonrake1> I am creating an app too connect to wii remote & plot the accelaration data
Nov 08 06:16:48 <lord_moonrake1> Any willing beta testers...?
Nov 08 07:00:52 <Vanya> Hi everyone! Could you help me? I've installed perl with apt-get, but there's no perl in /usr/bin . Whar is the path to perl in maemo?
Nov 08 07:08:46 <|R> Vanya : check dpkg -L package-name in the xterm
Nov 08 07:08:54 <|R> you'll see everything that it installed
Nov 08 07:17:59 <L0cutus_> hum
Nov 08 07:18:49 <L0cutus_> latest gizmo version crash every time on my n800... unusable
Nov 08 07:19:16 <|R> fun :|
Nov 08 07:25:03 * |R trying to get an Holux M-1200 off somewhere in time for OS2008... :)
Nov 08 07:26:26 <astro76> I am getting one soon too, either m1200 or m1000b
Nov 08 07:27:07 <|R> it's crazy how prices vary online
Nov 08 07:27:16 <|R> for everything that is ...
Nov 08 07:36:37 <tigert__> morning
Nov 08 07:36:37 <_Monkey> aloha
Nov 08 07:45:41 <lopz> bye
Nov 08 08:37:03 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 08 08:59:53 <Gubbe> hello
Nov 08 08:59:54 <_Monkey> hi, Gubbe
Nov 08 09:02:22 <Gubbe> thought I'd drop by to absorb the atmosphere. I just started working on hacking someone else's maemo-based app and the effort is already making my hair fall off.
Nov 08 09:02:41 <Jaffa> Oh?
Nov 08 09:05:13 <Gubbe> It's just that I know so little of the platform or linux coding in general. Trying to implement signal handlers for conicconnection seems surprisingly challenging for me. =)
Nov 08 09:20:57 <Gubbe> Keeping in mind that I first heard of Gobjects, etc yesterday, I'm trying to use g_signal_connect to set the handler. The first parameter it takes is a gpointer to an "instance," but I haven't been able to decipher what that instance is supposed to be. In a #maemo log excerpt I found, someone used ctx.conic as the instance, which seems to refer to some sort of "context" that presumably needs to be initialized beforehand. So far I haven't figured out what i
Nov 08 09:21:22 <murrayc> Gubbe: It's not very easy. You could look at TnyMaemoConicDevice in tinymail for an example.
Nov 08 09:22:55 <Gubbe> eerily I just found that very .c file via google simultaneously with your response. I'll have to scan through it.
Nov 08 09:23:22 <nomis> Gubbe: an instance is for example any gobject.
Nov 08 09:23:36 <nomis> Gubbe: however it needs to have the signal you're connecting to.
Nov 08 09:23:37 <inz> Gubbe, in this case the instance should be what con_ic_connection_new() returned
Nov 08 09:24:51 <Gubbe> hmm. I have actually tried to use the ConIcConnection* connection, which contains exactly what con_ic_connection_new() returned, but I got an error from that at runtime.
Nov 08 09:25:32 <Gubbe> let's see what it was again...
Nov 08 09:26:38 <florian> hi all
Nov 08 09:27:33 <AD-N770> bon dia / good morning
Nov 08 09:27:59 <Gubbe> hm hm hmm... allow me to ponder this for a moment, I may have discovered something...
Nov 08 09:35:42 <Gubbe> It seems that I'm actually using the correct instance and everything, but the code craps out at runtime. This could even be a binary incompatibility issue I'm fighting with.
Nov 08 09:37:20 <Gubbe> Oh well, perhaps having some lunch will help. Thanks for the assistance, everyone!
Nov 08 09:37:23 <Gubbe> --->
Nov 08 09:38:55 <murrayc> Gubbe: Do try gdb or valgrind.
Nov 08 09:45:35 <rothiel> Hi
Nov 08 10:17:37 <bilboed> is there some plans to have a 2008OS for the n770 ?
Nov 08 10:22:39 <rothiel> Hi... I have to code a game for N800
Nov 08 10:22:59 <rothiel> Can I use the GTK button as a sprite ?
Nov 08 10:23:16 <rothiel> or perhaps I need to use an other library ?
Nov 08 10:23:52 <rothiel> (GTK newbie ^^)
Nov 08 10:26:53 <flip^> bilboed: i believe the 770's hacker edition of the OS is going to be updated to bring it in line with OS2008, but they've said that's not the same as releasing OS2008 for the 770
Nov 08 10:27:18 <bilboed> flip^, ok. It's just that the 2008/os is really much faster...
Nov 08 10:28:41 <flip^> that's because of the faster cpu though... they won't be speeding up the cpu on the 770 like they are the 800
Nov 08 10:29:58 <bilboed> flip^, not only, the actual software is faster and more memory efficient
Nov 08 10:30:26 <flip^> well, yes, that is true... but i dunno if you'd see that much improvement on a 770... but as i say, they do plan to update the HE... but it could take a while
Nov 08 10:45:59 <rothiel> Nobody to answer me ?
Nov 08 10:48:08 <mgedmin> rothiel: SDL is the usual choice for games
Nov 08 10:48:30 <mgedmin> when you want something full-screen, graphics intensive (well, as much as the under-powered Nokias can provide)
Nov 08 10:48:42 <mgedmin> there are downsides, e.g. no virtual keyboard input
Nov 08 10:49:37 <Gubbe> right then. con_ic_connection_new() gives: GLIB CRITICAL ** GLib-GObject - gtype.c:2242: initialization assertion failed, use IA__g_type_init() prior to this function
Nov 08 10:49:44 <Gubbe> followed by: GLIB CRITICAL ** GLib-GObject - g_object_new: assertion `G_TYPE_IS_OBJECT (object_type)' failed
Nov 08 10:51:17 <rothiel> Hi... I have to code a game for N800
Nov 08 10:51:21 <rothiel> Can I use the GTK button as a sprite ?
Nov 08 10:51:25 <rothiel> or perhaps I need to use an other library ?
Nov 08 10:55:25 <rothiel> mgedmin > I don't need virtual keyboard
Nov 08 10:55:48 <rothiel> so I can use SDL
Nov 08 10:55:51 <rothiel> great :)
Nov 08 10:56:00 <rothiel> thx to u
Nov 08 11:04:04 <rothiel> Hi all :)
Nov 08 11:07:52 <workingplayya> hi everybody
Nov 08 11:08:31 <workingplayya> are there any ffmpeg packages in the cosmos
Nov 08 11:09:17 <workingplayya> i have buid one in scratchbox but the binaries arent included
Nov 08 11:40:05 <tigert> what binaries?
Nov 08 11:40:06 <_Monkey> binaries are usually in /usr/bin
Nov 08 11:40:24 <tigert> _Monkey: forget binaries
Nov 08 11:40:25 <_Monkey> tigert: I forgot binaries
Nov 08 11:44:30 <Toma-> Im trying to figure out why my phone wont accept files from my 770. is there a way to see some output form the filemanager?
Nov 08 11:47:16 <workingplayya> which program?
Nov 08 11:47:26 <workingplayya> try to start it in xterm
Nov 08 11:48:44 <Toma-> ahh the builtin fm
Nov 08 11:49:26 <Toma-> and it seg faults form the CLI
Nov 08 11:49:39 <Gubbe> Aiiieeee! Epic humiliation! Incredibly enough, running g_type_init() before con_ic_connection_new() worked! Just like the error message instructed. Why I failed to heed that earlier goes beyond my understanding.
Nov 08 11:49:46 <Gubbe> Another three hours well spent.
Nov 08 11:50:21 <Gubbe> Now where's that donkey-hat again...
Nov 08 11:52:22 <murrayc> Gubbe: Well done. I guess most people don't notice that because they are using it  in a GTK+ program anyway.
Nov 08 11:56:23 <Toma-> No other ideas? does ossofilemanager log anywhere?
Nov 08 12:04:44 <Gubbe> murray: yea, thanks for the help though. I have a feeling that this wasn't the last time I need to pick someone else's brain to make this thing work. =)
Nov 08 12:05:45 <lardman> Toma-: syslog
Nov 08 12:07:52 <Toma-> theres nothing in /var/log...
Nov 08 12:08:01 <Toma-> i removed ~/.osso
Nov 08 12:08:08 <Toma-> seemed to work
Nov 08 12:08:17 <Toma-> totally trashed my menus tho
Nov 08 12:08:22 <lardman> you need to install syslogd
Nov 08 12:08:35 <lardman> or at least run it
Nov 08 12:08:38 <Toma-> ahh ok
Nov 08 12:08:57 <lardman> anyway, it may not provide much output, but there's certainly some stuff in it
Nov 08 12:09:26 <murrayc> Gubbe: And don't forget that libconic does nothing in scratchbox. It only works on the device.
Nov 08 12:17:12 <Richard> Hi, How to build a SDK from source?
Nov 08 12:24:21 <Gubbe> murray: Naturally. This is something I'm only testing on the device anyway.
Nov 08 12:33:50 <workingplayya> Richard: why dont use the rfs from maemo.org?
Nov 08 12:47:28 <lardman> when are core dumps generated? Any exception (as long as ulimit is set appropriately)?
Nov 08 12:48:19 <Mikho> does anybody know a good network traffic monitoring tool for linux?
Nov 08 12:48:41 <Mikho> tcpdump seems to do something, but I'd like a graphical one
Nov 08 12:48:45 <lardman> driftnet?
Nov 08 12:48:47 <lardman> ;)
Nov 08 12:49:46 <lcdd> Mikho: http://www.wireshark.org/
Nov 08 12:50:12 <Mikho> ah, wireshark
Nov 08 12:50:37 <Mikho> thought it was for windows
Nov 08 12:52:57 <Mikho> this will do, thanks
Nov 08 12:53:18 <alterego> Heh, my karma is growing daily.
Nov 08 12:53:56 <alterego> Anyhow .. On a serious note .. Would the maemo wiki be a good place to do documentation for ruby-maemo?
Nov 08 12:54:35 <GeneralAntilles> The maemo wiki doesn't seem to be a good place for anything.
Nov 08 12:54:40 <GeneralAntilles> Hard to navigate
Nov 08 12:54:58 <alterego> Sure, but if the pages are tagged ruby-maemo they're directly added to the garage page.
Nov 08 12:55:20 <GeneralAntilles> Then, sure, add the documentation to the wiki. ;)
Nov 08 12:55:52 <alterego> I'll have to contemplate the benifits/drawbacks I think for a while.
Nov 08 13:02:12 <Mikho> ok, the next question: does somebody know a good C/C++ framework I could implement http connection with?
Nov 08 13:02:43 <alterego> Server or client?
Nov 08 13:02:52 <alterego> I think libcurl does client side stuff ..
Nov 08 13:03:16 <alterego> And I believe it's a part of maemo.
Nov 08 13:04:24 <Mikho> client
Nov 08 13:04:33 <alterego> Then libcurl is probably the way to go.
Nov 08 13:05:11 <keesj> What are you trying?
Nov 08 13:07:21 <Mikho> ok, libcurl seems appropriate
Nov 08 13:07:25 <Mikho> thanks
Nov 08 13:07:32 <alterego> No problem :)
Nov 08 13:07:47 <Mikho> never had good answers to specific questions this fast :)
Nov 08 13:08:08 <alterego> Well, it's the specific questions that should be answered quickly :)
Nov 08 13:10:34 <Mikho> let's try again:
Nov 08 13:11:46 <Mikho> in vanilla scratchbox installation, I have maemo installed and target set up. But apt-get does not seem to be able to connect to maemo repositories. What was the file I was supposed to edit to enable internet connection?
Nov 08 13:12:33 <alterego> I've never had an issue with internet connection in scratchbox.
Nov 08 13:12:52 <alterego> Though, quite a few people seem to have.
Nov 08 13:12:58 <alterego> I bl
Nov 08 13:13:06 <alterego> I think there's some information about it on the wiki somewhere.
Nov 08 13:13:14 <b0unc3> Mikho: check the resolv.conf
Nov 08 13:13:19 <Tak> alterego: aha, so you got a garage project set up?
Nov 08 13:13:22 <Mikho> and google, but this seems to be a good day for #maemo :)
Nov 08 13:13:42 <alterego> Tak, yeah. You found it? :)
Nov 08 13:14:01 <keesj>   /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf but with recent sboxes I had not problem
Nov 08 13:14:05 <Mikho> yes! The problem was with resolv.conf :)
Nov 08 13:14:26 <alterego> Tak, actually. It might not be a "garage" project. It's just a project page in the download section.
Nov 08 13:14:59 <alterego> The maemo project management stuff confuses me.
Nov 08 13:17:42 <Tak> I saw it poking around ohloh yesterday, but didn't know if it was that
Nov 08 13:18:14 <alterego> I've heard about this ohloh .. Not really any idea what it is though.
Nov 08 13:19:24 <alterego> Would it be advantagous to register and use it?
Nov 08 13:19:51 * Tak shrugs
Nov 08 13:20:03 <Tak> I don't really have a handle on it either
Nov 08 13:20:14 <alterego> It says I've enlisted in the garage but I've not :/
Nov 08 13:20:16 <Tak> it seems to be some kind of meta-social-networking framework
Nov 08 13:20:53 <alterego> Which could possibly damage my rating as the project will always have zero activity >:(
Nov 08 13:24:41 <Mikho> ok, let's try it again
Nov 08 13:25:57 <Mikho> In my host environment, when I write sudo apt-get install libcur, and then press tab, it gives me all the possible choices for the packages, but inside scratchbox it does nothing. Currently it's a bit tricky to find out the exact package name every time I want to install something
Nov 08 13:26:24 <alterego> Mikho, apt-cache search 'libcurl'
Nov 08 13:26:51 <alterego> Without the quotes. I don't know why I put those there ..
Nov 08 13:26:52 <Mikho> ok, that works
Nov 08 13:27:13 <Mikho> but how can I enable tab?
Nov 08 13:27:21 <alterego> I don't know.
Nov 08 13:27:30 <alterego> Tab completion is part of Bash
Nov 08 13:27:31 <Mikho> tab is the thing that makes unix worth using
Nov 08 13:28:25 <Veggen> Mikho: mmh, not sure I agree :) there's a whole lot more :)
Nov 08 13:28:43 <Veggen> but it makes much difference when it comes to shell usage.
Nov 08 13:28:51 <keesj> vi makes the world go round
Nov 08 13:29:07 <alterego> vi is for hippies :P
Nov 08 13:29:09 <Veggen> (I'm a vi-user myself :)
Nov 08 13:31:40 <Mikho> There's probably more, but I really can't imagine using the command shell without previous command scrollbacks and autocompletion
Nov 08 13:32:28 <thomasvm> i don't know if this is the good place to ask, but i'll try anyway:
Nov 08 13:32:29 <thomasvm> run-standalone.sh python2.5 -c "import gnome"
Nov 08 13:32:36 <fysa> is there anyway to get larger scrollbars?
Nov 08 13:32:45 <thomasvm> fails with "ImportError: No module named gnome"
Nov 08 13:32:52 <thomasvm> though python2.5-gnome is installed
Nov 08 13:34:56 <thomasvm> i'm on chinook beta
Nov 08 13:38:26 <GeneralAntilles> fysa, no.
Nov 08 13:39:13 <fysa> a little small for thumb use
Nov 08 13:39:28 <GeneralAntilles> There's a bug
Nov 08 13:39:37 <GeneralAntilles> but they're pretty much refusing to fix.
Nov 08 13:40:16 <Tak> so is vim for full-blown socialists then?
Nov 08 13:40:25 <alterego> Hippies
Nov 08 13:40:43 <GeneralAntilles> No good dirty damn hippies . . .
Nov 08 13:40:52 <alterego> Real coders use emacs.
Nov 08 13:40:57 <alterego> emacs and knives
Nov 08 13:42:00 <GeneralAntilles> Hooray knives.
Nov 08 13:42:44 <Tak> I don't have enough fingers to use emacs
Nov 08 13:42:48 <sp3000> it's the fastest thing I know that has incremental search
Nov 08 13:42:52 <Tak> probably because of the knives
Nov 08 13:42:53 <alterego> Wow, some one gave ruby-maemo a 5 star rating.
Nov 08 13:42:57 <alterego> That's pretty bold.
Nov 08 13:43:06 <alterego> I'd give it 3.5/4
Nov 08 13:43:15 <GeneralAntilles> Want me to go offset it with a 1 star rating? :P
Nov 08 13:43:30 <alterego> Any rating is a good rating imo
Nov 08 13:43:40 <alterego> The more feedback the better.
Nov 08 13:43:47 <sp3000> (as with all editor wars, now all the three dozen editors that fit that criterion jump out from the woordworks, plus a hack for the main contender to do that)
Nov 08 13:43:53 <sp3000> and knives
Nov 08 13:44:01 <alterego> Personally I'd rather people give me real feedback. Features/Libraries they want and maybe API changes.
Nov 08 13:44:25 <sp3000> they're good for the inevitable goat blood sacrifices
Nov 08 13:45:14 <alterego> Or ViM hippie sacrifices :P
Nov 08 13:45:19 <alterego> vIm
Nov 08 13:45:20 <sp3000> and defensive programming
Nov 08 13:45:28 <alterego> Hah
Nov 08 13:45:44 <sp3000> not to mention offensive programming
Nov 08 13:46:04 <Tak> btw, what should I do to get the rubygame deb up on ruby-maemo?
Nov 08 13:46:20 <alterego> Good question.
Nov 08 13:46:27 <alterego> How big is the package?
Nov 08 13:47:01 <Tak> 65k
Nov 08 13:47:08 <alterego> Heh, email it to me :)
Nov 08 13:47:17 <alterego> tom at rubyx.co.uk
Nov 08 13:47:21 <Tak> oh - what section are you putting all the ruby packages in?
Nov 08 13:47:30 <alterego> I'll just check.
Nov 08 13:48:12 <alterego> It'll be under the 'ext' directory for arch/dist
Nov 08 13:48:19 <Tak> rubygame should probably be in the same section as ruby1.8-sdl
Nov 08 13:48:24 <alterego> Yeah
Nov 08 13:48:29 <Tak> no, I mean the debian-package section
Nov 08 13:48:47 <alterego> Ah
Nov 08 13:48:52 <alterego> I put them all under the same.
Nov 08 13:49:01 <alterego> Except the dev packages which are under 'devel'
Nov 08 13:49:25 <Tak> so, user/programming ?
Nov 08 13:49:55 <alterego> Yeah,
Nov 08 13:50:37 <alterego> If the files are to be used in an SDK then stick them under 'devel' if they're extensions for ruby and will be installed on device (or SDK) then stick them in user/programming
Nov 08 13:50:56 <Tak> do you want all the source package detritus as well? (orig.tgz, diff.gz, ...) ?
Nov 08 13:51:07 <alterego> Neah, just binary packages.
Nov 08 13:51:30 <alterego> I just do: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b
Nov 08 13:54:33 <Tak> sendified
Nov 08 13:54:46 <alterego> Nice.
Nov 08 13:55:35 <alterego> Hah, nice email address ^_^
Nov 08 13:55:51 <timeless> ?
Nov 08 13:56:08 <alterego> taktaktaktaktaktaktaktaktaktak ...
Nov 08 13:56:46 <anothy_x> is there a scratchbox root image with X11 pre-installed?
Nov 08 13:57:38 <alterego> emdebian has those kinds of images anothy_x
Nov 08 13:59:06 <anothy_x> and the embedian ones will work with the 770/n800? (just building apps, not kernels)
Nov 08 13:59:25 <alterego> Tak, uploaded
Nov 08 13:59:58 <Tak> cool
Nov 08 14:00:28 <Tak> heh, I was annoyed with gmail's 6-character minimum
Nov 08 14:00:39 <alterego> Heh
Nov 08 14:07:18 <sp3000> did you find their maximum? :)
Nov 08 14:10:37 <sp3000> 64 per 2821, but...
Nov 08 14:13:30 <Tak> sp3000: it was 30 at the time
Nov 08 14:21:08 <anothy_x> it looks like emdebian doesn't have pre-built rootfs's, rather tools for building. is that correct?
Nov 08 14:23:41 <alterego> I thought they had a few minimal bootstraps. I maybe wrong.
Nov 08 14:25:12 <czr> alterego, where's the task app? :-)
Nov 08 14:25:26 <alterego> Under the rug.
Nov 08 14:25:31 <alterego> No, it;s getting there.
Nov 08 14:25:38 <||cw> top
Nov 08 14:25:39 <alterego> I did some serious restructuring of the GUI
Nov 08 14:25:42 <||cw> opps
Nov 08 14:26:00 <czr> alterego, told you you should've thrown it out of the window long ago :-)
Nov 08 14:26:08 <alterego> :)
Nov 08 14:26:16 <czr> it's it wants to be rescued, it will fly back!
Nov 08 14:26:26 <alterego> Well, I quite want this app. Even if other people don't use it :)
Nov 08 14:26:36 * czr nods
Nov 08 14:26:38 * ||cw sighs
Nov 08 14:26:58 <||cw> i have to reboot a server that has 454 days uptime
Nov 08 14:27:48 <GeneralAntilles> Had to happen some time. :P
Nov 08 14:30:08 <mgedmin> either it's not running linux, or you're ignoring kernel security updates
Nov 08 14:30:46 <alterego> Or it's a VPS ;)
Nov 08 14:31:15 <czr> Very Panicky System
Nov 08 14:31:36 <||cw> mgedmin: it has the latest debian sarge kernel
Nov 08 14:32:01 <||cw> I do apt-get dist-upgrade regularly
Nov 08 14:32:36 <||cw> did have to happen sooner or later as sarge will no longer get updates in april
Nov 08 14:38:04 <FMZ|away> Any ideas on a release date for OS2008 yet?
Nov 08 14:38:19 <alterego>  ~2 weeks
Nov 08 14:38:29 <FMz> Awesome.
Nov 08 14:38:31 <FMz> Also.... hi.
Nov 08 14:38:32 <Tak> sometime between now and 2009 ;-)
Nov 08 14:38:36 <alterego> Hah
Nov 08 14:38:48 <alterego> Yeah, there may be delays.
Nov 08 14:39:01 <alterego> I remember there were delays back in 2005 with the 770
Nov 08 14:39:16 <alterego> Too much demand and also issues with the software I believe.
Nov 08 14:39:17 <FMz> Today my avoidance of work at my place of employment will take the form of learning Ruby.  Every bit of it.
Nov 08 14:39:28 <alterego> FMz, good for you :D
Nov 08 14:39:34 <alterego> If you have any questions I'm here ;)
Nov 08 14:39:43 <FMz> Awesome, thanks bud.
Nov 08 14:40:53 <czr> more sw for me to throw out of the window, yay :-)
Nov 08 14:44:46 <L0cutus_> vim = 19mb :-O
Nov 08 14:45:14 <alterego> Oh, don't tell me you want to install VIm on your device ..
Nov 08 14:45:36 <FMz> What's wrong with Vim?
Nov 08 14:45:50 <alterego> It's okay.
Nov 08 14:46:12 <alterego> What's wrong with vi?
Nov 08 14:46:37 <L0cutus_> i've foun vi is better than vim on n800
Nov 08 14:46:41 <L0cutus_> found*
Nov 08 14:46:52 <L0cutus_> at least with my bt keyboard
Nov 08 14:46:56 <FMz> I've never used it.  So I assume Vi comes standard on the 800...
Nov 08 14:47:06 <L0cutus_> yes FMz
Nov 08 14:47:20 <FMz> Cool
Nov 08 14:47:20 <alterego> Well, it comes standard on all Linux systems
Nov 08 14:47:30 <alterego> I guess all UNIXish systems too.
Nov 08 14:47:49 <FMz> My fellow webdev here at our company always uninstalls Vi and installs Nano.  I hate him.
Nov 08 14:47:50 <alterego> I mainly use vi to edit /etc/apt/sources.list so I can then apt-get install emacs-nox
Nov 08 14:48:00 <Mikho> has anyone run into this error message:
Nov 08 14:48:03 <Mikho> configure.ac:78: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_MSG_ERROR
Nov 08 14:48:06 <L0cutus> don't know why with vim arrow key on my bt keyb bombs
Nov 08 14:48:08 <alterego> Eesh, nano isn't very useful :)
Nov 08 14:48:18 <GeneralAntilles> Ha, I can understand installing nano, but why UNinstall vi? :\
Nov 08 14:49:19 <FMz> "Security reasons" he says.
Nov 08 14:49:36 <FMz> I guess not too many people would think of trying nano when Vi/m doesn't work.
Nov 08 14:50:04 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Nov 08 14:50:05 <GeneralAntilles> What?
Nov 08 14:50:25 <GeneralAntilles> That sounds like incredibly horrible security right tehre.
Nov 08 14:50:40 <FMz> Thus my hate for him ;)
Nov 08 14:50:47 <derf> You've gotta watch out for those user-mode text editors.
Nov 08 14:50:55 <GeneralAntilles> You should get yourself a sockful of oranges and beat him about the head and shoulders.
Nov 08 14:50:58 <GeneralAntilles> That'll teach him. ;)
Nov 08 14:53:29 <czr> GeneralAntilles, yes but what is the sockful of oranges for? snack after the beatup?
Nov 08 14:53:41 <GeneralAntilles> For the beating
Nov 08 14:53:44 <GeneralAntilles> No broken bones.
Nov 08 14:53:50 * czr sighs
Nov 08 14:53:59 <GeneralAntilles> Sorta like a sockful of batteries
Nov 08 14:54:00 <GeneralAntilles> but cheaper
Nov 08 14:54:03 <GeneralAntilles> and less cruel.
Nov 08 14:54:36 <FMz> A winsock full of Vim sessions.
Nov 08 14:57:41 * czr takes the winsock and rises with a trumpet
Nov 08 14:57:59 <czr> always thought the icon in trumpet was cheerful.
Nov 08 14:58:05 <czr> albeit slightly swedish.
Nov 08 14:58:49 <suihkulokki> czr: http://www.arouse.net/despair-linux/slackware.jpg
Nov 08 14:59:17 <czr> suihkulokki, that's evil :-)
Nov 08 14:59:20 * czr started with slack
Nov 08 14:59:28 * suihkulokki too
Nov 08 14:59:55 <czr> damn I forgot how sucky the GUI stuff looked in win3.
Nov 08 15:00:21 <czr> hmm. maybe a win3 theme for n800/n810?
Nov 08 15:00:27 <GeneralAntilles> >_>
Nov 08 15:00:40 <czr> 'd be very retro. in a perverse way.
Nov 08 15:01:20 <FMz> lawlfirewall:  Your page is blocked due to a security policy that prohibits access to category
Nov 08 15:01:23 <FMz> Adult/Sexually Explicit.
Nov 08 15:01:34 <czr> suihkulokki, the other distros don't fare much better though ;-)
Nov 08 15:02:29 <czr> suihkulokki, esp the gentoo one
Nov 08 15:02:32 * czr rofls in shame.
Nov 08 15:03:31 <L0cutus> hum, unable to install pimlico packages...
Nov 08 15:03:41 <L0cutus> they require evolution-data-server
Nov 08 15:04:07 <L0cutus> if i try to install with apt-get, it say it's already here :-?
Nov 08 15:10:02 <L0cutus> seems there are problem with libebook
Nov 08 15:16:15 <alterego> http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_004.png
Nov 08 15:16:20 <alterego> That's the new GUI :)
Nov 08 15:16:58 <timeless> fwiw...
Nov 08 15:17:08 <timeless> maemo style says that a button either has text, or it has  a picture
Nov 08 15:17:11 <timeless> never boht
Nov 08 15:17:22 <Tak> shiny
Nov 08 15:17:37 <Tak> what about a picture of text?
Nov 08 15:17:40 <timeless> also, you shouldn't use access keys when there's a vkb :)
Nov 08 15:17:45 <alterego> Tell that to stock button thingies.
Nov 08 15:17:49 <timeless> tak: um,
Nov 08 15:18:14 <alterego> timeless, access keys?
Nov 08 15:18:18 <timeless> alterego: yeah um.... maemo clearly wants you to waste lots of time "porting" to hildon
Nov 08 15:18:21 <timeless> + _Add
Nov 08 15:18:24 <timeless> instead of + Add
Nov 08 15:18:27 <alterego> Oh
Nov 08 15:18:34 <alterego> Like I said. That's Gtk Stock ID
Nov 08 15:18:40 <timeless> there's a "proper" way to detect ...
Nov 08 15:18:46 <alterego> I didn't define the text or icon. I just said Gtk::Stock::ADD
Nov 08 15:18:56 <timeless> sorry, i'm not a gnome developer
Nov 08 15:19:09 <timeless> and i don't know why the ui people didn't ask the desktop people to fix this
Nov 08 15:19:14 <timeless> i think it basically goes like this:
Nov 08 15:19:18 <alterego> I do get your point though and I will remove that.
Nov 08 15:19:20 <timeless> 1. ui people design somehting "shiny"
Nov 08 15:19:42 <timeless> 2. ui people force desktop people to spend all their time making "shiny" which requires inventing new widgets
Nov 08 15:19:58 <||cw> woulnd' that be don't use access keys UNLESS there's a vkb?  if you don't have the kb, you can't use an access key anyway
Nov 08 15:20:00 <alterego> (I had to invent a new widget for my UI too)
Nov 08 15:20:00 <timeless> 3. desktop people have no time left to try to adapt gnome widgets to match ui design theory
Nov 08 15:20:16 <timeless> 4. ui people didn't bother explicitly explaining theory to desktop people
Nov 08 15:20:26 <alterego> ||cw, vkb is the virtual keyboard. Kind of hard without an ALT key ;)
Nov 08 15:20:27 <timeless> 5. no tester is truly aware of theory
Nov 08 15:20:41 <||cw> alterego: alt key is in the menu isn't it?
Nov 08 15:20:45 <timeless> 6. no one is responsible for testing pored apps
Nov 08 15:21:02 <timeless> menu??
Nov 08 15:21:13 <timeless> you can't trigger alt w/ vkb or fkb <period>
Nov 08 15:21:24 <timeless> or ctrl for that matter
Nov 08 15:21:35 <timeless> xterm cheats by offering a menu item "send control+" or something
Nov 08 15:21:47 <timeless> and as hacks go, it sucks
Nov 08 15:21:51 <alterego> Sure, but it doesn't make accelerators usable in maemo.
Nov 08 15:21:53 <alterego> They're not.
Nov 08 15:21:55 <timeless> because if you use screen, the display resizes
Nov 08 15:22:19 <timeless> note: w/ itos2008, hildon apps will show accelerators
Nov 08 15:22:29 <timeless> but only when the "Real" keyboard is open
Nov 08 15:22:39 <alterego> Right
Nov 08 15:22:44 * alterego wonders how to do that.
Nov 08 15:22:50 <timeless> (or maybe if a bluetooth keyboard is active and paired, not sure how tested that is)
Nov 08 15:22:53 <timeless> iirc it's a HALism
Nov 08 15:23:04 <alterego> Though, the 'Add' button in question is activated by hitting enter on the V/KB anyway ..
Nov 08 15:23:04 <timeless> there's public code that should be in gnome upstream for it iirc
Nov 08 15:23:23 <timeless> use the standard browser Arrow button instead
Nov 08 15:23:34 <timeless> the green one
Nov 08 15:23:36 <alterego> For what?
Nov 08 15:23:42 <timeless> instead of add
Nov 08 15:23:46 <alterego> Oh, next?
Nov 08 15:23:55 <timeless> no, the green check like one
Nov 08 15:23:59 <timeless> (the other green one!)
Nov 08 15:24:04 <alterego> ;)
Nov 08 15:24:07 * timeless kicks someone in UI L&F
Nov 08 15:24:32 <alterego> I don't know anyting about UI design.
Nov 08 15:24:33 <timeless> that green thing if placed immediately to the right of the text field..
Nov 08 15:24:39 <alterego> I work on aesthetics and functionality.
Nov 08 15:24:44 <derf> It's actually pretty easy to add shift/alt/ctrl keys to a matchbox keyboard.
Nov 08 15:24:45 <timeless> should at least give users a clue of a tie in w/ browser behavior
Nov 08 15:24:49 <Tak> hmm, garage tracker could really use a preview button
Nov 08 15:25:09 <derf> I don't use the vkb that ships with the device, but I did so on my maemocjk keyboard.
Nov 08 15:25:10 <timeless> i think it's reasonably safe to assume your users will have met the browser a bit
Nov 08 15:25:16 <alterego> derf, they're still pointless when the button is a couple of CM's away from the keyboard :P
Nov 08 15:25:36 <alterego> Oh, you mean the refresh button?
Nov 08 15:25:38 <FMz> CMs... alterego must be British / Aussie.
Nov 08 15:25:40 <timeless> yeah
Nov 08 15:25:40 <derf> alterego: I don't use it for "keyboard shortcuts", obviously.
Nov 08 15:25:53 <derf> But timeless is right, that xterm hack is truly horrible.
Nov 08 15:25:55 <timeless> note that refresh is echnically the circle one
Nov 08 15:26:14 <alterego> That's the only green arrow I have in my browser ..
Nov 08 15:26:22 <timeless> in newer versions (not sure how old) the browser only shows reload/refresh if you tap and hold
Nov 08 15:26:28 <timeless> the check thing isn't refresh, it's go
Nov 08 15:26:38 <timeless> tap and hold it :)
Nov 08 15:26:48 <timeless> (scary that i remembered it was go)
Nov 08 15:26:48 <alterego> Ah
Nov 08 15:26:50 <alterego> That's odd.
Nov 08 15:26:58 <timeless> sorry for calling it a check instead of "right turn"?
Nov 08 15:27:16 * timeless clearly has mapped it to a standard green checkmark :)
Nov 08 15:27:30 <alterego> ;)
Nov 08 15:28:09 <bedboi> damn DNS resolving does not work in my dusty scratchbox
Nov 08 15:28:10 * alterego rearranges his UI because of timeless' remarks :P
Nov 08 15:28:26 <alterego> I was happy with my design too :(
Nov 08 15:28:51 <bedboi> i hacked the /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf but nothing changed
Nov 08 15:29:17 <mgedmin> does /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf look sane?
Nov 08 15:30:17 * alterego attempts to hunt down this "GO" button
Nov 08 15:31:41 <alterego> I don't think it's Gtk stock.
Nov 08 15:31:55 <timeless> qgn_oolb_browser_gobutton.png
Nov 08 15:32:03 <timeless>  icons-default/ 26x26/ qgn_toolb_browser_gobutton.png
Nov 08 15:32:07 <alterego> Yeah
Nov 08 15:32:10 <alterego> Thanks
Nov 08 15:32:12 * timeless shouldn't try typing
Nov 08 15:32:16 <alterego> :)
Nov 08 15:32:25 <alterego> I was hoping for a stock ID
Nov 08 15:32:26 <lopz> hola
Nov 08 15:32:34 * alterego creates a new stock id ;)
Nov 08 15:33:03 <timeless> oh!
Nov 08 15:33:06 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/sardine-20071025/source/sdk-default-icons-2.0/icons/26x26/
Nov 08 15:33:11 <timeless> it's in sardine!
Nov 08 15:33:36 <timeless> it's also in chinook
Nov 08 15:33:58 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook-20071107/source/sdk-default-icons-2.0/icons/26x26/
Nov 08 15:34:13 <alterego> That's great.
Nov 08 15:34:19 <alterego> Though, I don't use either of those !!!
Nov 08 15:34:28 <timeless> fwiw, the way i found the icon was:
Nov 08 15:34:37 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/sardine-20071025/find?string=png$
Nov 08 15:34:55 <alterego> That's pretty useful. Thanks :)
Nov 08 15:34:56 <timeless> (i started by using an internal equivalent of the real sources, but that's just a detail)
Nov 08 15:35:23 <timeless> note that the icons are just sdk icons, there's no guarantee that they'll resemble anything else
Nov 08 15:35:31 <timeless> although they are designed to be remotely pretty
Nov 08 15:35:32 <alterego> I think I'll make a note to make all those icons maemo stock icons in ruby-maemo.
Nov 08 15:36:06 <alterego> Should be easy to auto generate the code to do it.
Nov 08 15:36:45 <alterego> What does qgn stand for by-the-way?
Nov 08 15:36:57 <alterego> * graphics nokia?
Nov 08 15:36:57 <timeless> anyway, *please* take advantage of the cross references on timeless.justdave.net
Nov 08 15:37:02 <timeless> they're here for you (#maemo)
Nov 08 15:37:42 <timeless> at some point, maybe even this year, that'll start being mxr.maemo.org, we'll see
Nov 08 15:37:59 <alterego> That's really cool. I'll be using it a lot timeless.
Nov 08 15:38:47 <timeless> my officemate doesn't know :)
Nov 08 15:40:50 <alterego> That's really helpful. I need a way of finding out the differences to keep ruby-maemo up-to-date.
Nov 08 15:40:57 <alterego> That's exactly what I need :)
Nov 08 15:41:12 <timeless> the two specific indices here are not going to change
Nov 08 15:41:21 <timeless> hence the -{datestamp}
Nov 08 15:41:33 <timeless> i'll eventually add /chinook and /sardine which will
Nov 08 15:41:50 <timeless> (probably next week)
Nov 08 15:42:02 <alterego> They'll be SVN?
Nov 08 15:42:09 <timeless> oh, no
Nov 08 15:42:16 <alterego> How do you mean change then?
Nov 08 15:42:18 <timeless> these are generated from .deb sources
Nov 08 15:42:22 <alterego> Ah
Nov 08 15:42:29 <timeless> i just run the script again
Nov 08 15:42:38 <alterego> Okay
Nov 08 15:42:48 <alterego> Will you be making a profile for SVN HEAD?
Nov 08 15:44:31 <FMz> Pardon my newbness... what are chinook and sardine?
Nov 08 15:44:45 <timeless> it's kinda hard
Nov 08 15:44:54 <timeless> the garage tree is against svn head
Nov 08 15:44:58 <alterego> Chinook is the tag name for OS2008
Nov 08 15:45:09 <timeless> if it includes what you need, then you're fine
Nov 08 15:45:19 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/find
Nov 08 15:45:22 <alterego> I can't remember what Sardine is ^_^
Nov 08 15:45:29 <FMz> That's what I thought.  I assume sardine is OS2007?
Nov 08 15:45:32 <timeless> sardine continuously changes\
Nov 08 15:45:37 <FMz> Ahh...
Nov 08 15:45:47 <GeneralAntilles> sardine is the bleeding edge development release.
Nov 08 15:45:50 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/find?string=sardine
Nov 08 15:45:52 <alterego> Cool.
Nov 08 15:45:53 <GeneralAntilles> bora is 2007
Nov 08 15:45:53 <FMz> So... sardine is like the cutting edge
Nov 08 15:45:58 <FMz> Ahh, k :)
Nov 08 15:46:01 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/sardine/www/index.html
Nov 08 15:46:03 <alterego> gregale too ..
Nov 08 15:46:35 <GeneralAntilles> system
Nov 08 15:47:13 <timeless> hold
Nov 08 15:47:15 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/search?find=%2Fbrowser%2Fwww%2Fnews%2F&string=gregale
Nov 08 15:47:21 <L0cutus> what about this: http://intr.overt.org/4.2007.38-mmc-kernel/    ?
Nov 08 15:47:24 <GeneralAntilles> Ignore that, was meant for Quicksilver. :P
Nov 08 15:47:30 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/www/news/8/index.html
Nov 08 15:47:40 <timeless> that last hit shows what gregale "seems" to be
Nov 08 15:47:48 <timeless> i.e., it's a release (2.2)
Nov 08 15:48:11 <timeless> brb
Nov 08 15:52:00 <timeless> ok, qgn_ is legacy, it's an identifier prefix
Nov 08 15:52:04 <timeless> a bit of a short history:
Nov 08 15:52:19 <timeless> osso imported its specifications/style/layout from "s90" (series 90)
Nov 08 15:52:24 <timeless> qgn_ is one of those imports
Nov 08 15:52:28 <alterego> Ah
Nov 08 15:52:33 <timeless> and no one i could find here has any idea what it means :)
Nov 08 15:52:40 <alterego> Heh
Nov 08 15:53:02 <timeless> mind you, the finns leave at 5pm prompt and it's nearly 6pm, so i was lucky to find 2 finns... but stil
Nov 08 15:53:19 <timeless> finding someone who knows is basically a matter of finding someone who worked in s90 not osso
Nov 08 15:53:25 <timeless> (probably)
Nov 08 15:54:24 <timeless> http://allaboutsymbian.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31140&page=38
Nov 08 15:54:31 <timeless> shows it was used there...
Nov 08 15:54:36 <timeless> so it's clearly a symbian ism :)
Nov 08 15:54:53 <timeless> http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67614
Nov 08 15:58:00 <Spakman> hello. Anyone know much about ruby-maemo?
Nov 08 15:58:16 <czr> Spakman, ask alterego
Nov 08 15:58:19 <Spakman> specifically, how to trap a full-screen keypress
Nov 08 15:58:25 <Spakman> thanks czr
Nov 08 15:58:28 <alterego> Spakman, Sure thing
Nov 08 15:58:32 <alterego> Hang on I'll upload an example.
Nov 08 15:59:16 <greedo__> hello
Nov 08 15:59:30 <greedo__> i installed chinook beta sdk but it seems it lacks a lot of packages
Nov 08 15:59:36 <greedo__> is there another repository that should be used ?
Nov 08 15:59:48 <Spakman> thanks a lot alterego, appreciate it
Nov 08 16:01:48 <timeless> greedo: the sdk is an sdk
Nov 08 16:01:51 <timeless> it's not an os
Nov 08 16:01:55 <timeless> (not that "os" is really defined)
Nov 08 16:01:58 <timeless> what do you want?
Nov 08 16:02:31 <timeless> greedo: you can compare http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/sardine-20071025/source/ to http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook-20071107/source/ if you feel like it
Nov 08 16:02:36 <timeless> i have no idea how they differ
Nov 08 16:05:08 <alterego> Spakman, http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/ruby-maemo/CURRENT/Examples/fullscreen_example.rb.txt
Nov 08 16:05:13 <alterego> Spakman, that's the kind of code I use.
Nov 08 16:05:27 <Khertan> Hi !
Nov 08 16:06:17 <alterego> Spakman, I'll probably be adding the fullscreen? and fullscreen_toggle methods into a future release of ruby-maemo
Nov 08 16:06:39 <Khertan> Someone have already try to compile tinymail pre release 0.0.4 on scratchbox ?
Nov 08 16:06:43 <alterego> So you wont have to create and override those methods for long and just worry about the key-press-event signal handler.
Nov 08 16:06:57 <Khertan> it s seems that some file are missing for the maemo target
Nov 08 16:08:34 <timeless> khertan: care to be less vague?
Nov 08 16:08:49 <timeless> it's obviosly built by its devs...
Nov 08 16:10:26 <Spakman> alterego - excellent! Thanks a lot. I'm so glad ruby-maemo is out there :)
Nov 08 16:10:47 <alterego> Spakman, well I'm glad you're enjoying it :)
Nov 08 16:11:40 <Khertan> timeless > i can compile it for default target
Nov 08 16:12:03 <alterego> What's default target?
Nov 08 16:12:13 <alterego> Are you crosscompiling out of scratchbox?
Nov 08 16:12:15 <Khertan> but for the maemo target i get an tny-maemo-device-priv.h : No such file
Nov 08 16:12:29 <Khertan> i'm compiling in scratchbox
Nov 08 16:12:47 <alterego> Have you installed the required dependencies in both targets?
Nov 08 16:12:49 <zoran> so, you don't have header file?
Nov 08 16:12:58 <timeless> libtinymail-maemo/tny-maemo-device-priv.h
Nov 08 16:13:11 * timeless tries to figure out where that is
Nov 08 16:13:23 * alterego takes a guess at libtinymail-dev ..
Nov 08 16:13:37 <alterego> maybe libtinymail-maemo-dev ..
Nov 08 16:13:49 <Khertan> default target is DEMOUI.
Nov 08 16:13:59 <alterego> O_o
Nov 08 16:14:04 <alterego> Right
Nov 08 16:14:39 <Khertan> so in default target some dependancy is unmeet
Nov 08 16:14:58 <alterego> Sure, if you've not installed libtinymail * -dev
Nov 08 16:15:32 <Khertan> libtinymail * -dev ?
Nov 08 16:16:01 <Khertan> it s the prerelease of libtinymail that i try to compile
Nov 08 16:16:07 <timeless> API reference manual per API version: http://tinymail.org/API/
Nov 08 16:16:07 <timeless> Development website and info: http://tinymail.org/trac/tinymail
Nov 08 16:16:07 <timeless> Marketing documentation & contact: http://tinymail.org
Nov 08 16:16:14 <Khertan> :)
Nov 08 16:16:20 <alterego> Heh
Nov 08 16:16:26 <Khertan> maybe i should try from the svn
Nov 08 16:16:31 <alterego> I thought you were building a IO
Nov 08 16:16:34 <alterego> ~UI ..
Nov 08 16:17:18 <Khertan> building an UI should be the next things :)
Nov 08 16:17:25 <timeless> ok, got it
Nov 08 16:17:32 <timeless> http://swift/world/source/external/tinymail/trunk/.svn/
Nov 08 16:17:40 <timeless> url="https://svn.tinymail.org/svn/tinymail/trunk"
Nov 08 16:17:49 <timeless> that's what they told me to index
Nov 08 16:17:53 <timeless> so that's what you want :)
Nov 08 16:18:08 <alterego> timeless, http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_004.png
Nov 08 16:18:25 <timeless> yeah, that's better
Nov 08 16:18:37 <timeless> the date thing should probably be replaced by whatever calendar widget maemo uses
Nov 08 16:18:41 <timeless> i can look it up i suppose
Nov 08 16:18:52 <alterego> Yeah, I was thinking about using that calendar button ..
Nov 08 16:19:05 <alterego> Couldn't find the icon in stock icons though ;)
Nov 08 16:19:10 <Spakman> alterego - any chance you can host the .install file in your repos too? The maemo site seems pretty broken whenever I try it.
Nov 08 16:19:12 <alterego> Now I have your link ...
Nov 08 16:19:25 <alterego> Spakman, there is no install file :)
Nov 08 16:19:33 <timeless>  qgn_list_cp_datetime.png ?
Nov 08 16:19:35 <alterego> Spakman, I'll work on making on though.
Nov 08 16:19:46 <timeless> hrm, no, that's control panel
Nov 08 16:19:58 <timeless>  qgn_widg_datedit.png ?
Nov 08 16:20:14 <timeless> yeah, that and the _pr variant sound good
Nov 08 16:20:20 <Spakman> ah, OK :)
Nov 08 16:20:26 <Spakman> thanks again, see ya.
Nov 08 16:20:34 <Khertan> alterego > nice ui for a task manager for a small screen
Nov 08 16:20:36 <timeless> note: i'm using the sardine link (no cheaing :)
Nov 08 16:21:02 <alterego> :)
Nov 08 16:21:23 <timeless> fwow. tje stu;e fpr |add| ote,s c;ear;u see,s tp be a _plus_ overlayed on a htingy
Nov 08 16:21:40 <timeless> see  qgn_toolb_im_invite.png qgn_widg_mplayer_add.png  qgn_toolb_gene_bookmark_add.png
Nov 08 16:21:51 <timeless> ok, that's not readable :(
Nov 08 16:22:14 <alterego> O_O
Nov 08 16:22:20 <Khertan> compil seem to work for libtinymail from the svn :)
Nov 08 16:22:23 <timeless> fwiw, the style for |addd| ???? clearly seems to be a _plus_ overlayed on a thingy
Nov 08 16:22:38 <timeless> anyway, that's close enough to English :)
Nov 08 16:22:55 <alterego> You mean the add group?
Nov 08 16:23:02 <timeless> yeah
Nov 08 16:23:06 <alterego> Are you saying you want me to remove all the button background graphics? :)
Nov 08 16:23:21 <timeless> ? probably :)
Nov 08 16:23:34 <timeless> qgn_list_sort.png fwiw
Nov 08 16:23:41 <alterego> Even the order orientation?
Nov 08 16:23:52 <timeless> that's the only sort like thing i can find
Nov 08 16:23:57 <timeless> it's probably not necessarily right
Nov 08 16:23:58 <alterego> Yeah bustin' my ballz here :P
Nov 08 16:24:06 <timeless> that depends on what you're trying to do
Nov 08 16:24:11 <timeless> maemo style is a tree widget
Nov 08 16:24:18 <timeless> w/ sortable column indicators in the tree heads
Nov 08 16:24:23 <timeless> maemo/osso/whatever
Nov 08 16:24:40 <alterego> Sure, that'd work. If priority was a column
Nov 08 16:24:54 <alterego> But priority is indicated by colour.
Nov 08 16:25:07 * timeless puts on color blinding glasses
Nov 08 16:25:13 * timeless waves sec508 @alterego
Nov 08 16:25:15 <Khertan> lol
Nov 08 16:25:35 <timeless> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/describekeywords.cgi#sec508
Nov 08 16:25:37 <alterego> http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_003.png
Nov 08 16:25:41 <alterego> See, colours. :)
Nov 08 16:25:50 <Khertan> an hidden column ?
Nov 08 16:26:03 * timeless has no idea what those mean
Nov 08 16:26:07 <alterego> It's not a column at all.
Nov 08 16:26:10 <timeless> in mail apps, you get a column chooser
Nov 08 16:26:23 <timeless> and you could not have that column if you didn't want/need it
Nov 08 16:26:37 <timeless> i have no idea which is more important
Nov 08 16:26:47 <timeless> personally, for done, i'd use <strike> or <em>
Nov 08 16:26:55 <alterego> Red is high priority, green is low priority
Nov 08 16:26:56 <timeless> well, i'd use <i> not <em>, but css is stupid
Nov 08 16:27:03 <alterego> timeless, yes. That was the plan.
Nov 08 16:27:54 <timeless> can you have a high priority done task v. low priority done task?
Nov 08 16:28:10 <alterego> I don't get you, what?
Nov 08 16:28:31 <timeless> the red item, when it's done, is it still red, if so, why, if not, do you care?
Nov 08 16:28:39 <timeless> similar for green
Nov 08 16:28:54 <alterego> No,
Nov 08 16:28:57 <alterego> They all grey out.
Nov 08 16:29:00 <alterego> To the same grey.
Nov 08 16:29:13 <timeless> in that case you could replace the check widget with some more magical widget
Nov 08 16:29:19 <GeneralAntilles> Poor colorblind people.
Nov 08 16:29:23 <timeless> that shows a number normally
Nov 08 16:29:38 <timeless> and when simply clicked becomes a check
Nov 08 16:29:48 <timeless> and when click-held, you get a menu to change priority
Nov 08 16:30:06 <timeless> that's not necessarily in maemo style, but it'd solve all the problems i see
Nov 08 16:30:21 <alterego> Ah, so you think I should put the priority in numerical form there. But when the item is crossed out it turns into a fancy tick image?
Nov 08 16:30:24 <alterego> That's a nice idea.
Nov 08 16:30:33 <timeless> :)
Nov 08 16:30:51 <alterego> Yeah, the context menu displays fancy options.
Nov 08 16:31:10 <alterego> You can edit the text in place and change all the other details.
Nov 08 16:31:17 <timeless> qgn_list_messaging_high.png  qgn_list_messaging_low.png
Nov 08 16:31:23 <timeless> are the two obvious ones i can find in mail
Nov 08 16:31:34 * timeless is looking for numbers
Nov 08 16:31:58 <Khertan> *** No rule to make target xml/tree_index.sgml', needed by distdir ....
Nov 08 16:31:58 <timeless> oh, fwiw, qgn_indi_gene_plus.png
Nov 08 16:32:09 <timeless> so it seems they do have a plus :(
Nov 08 16:32:13 <Khertan> grr ... i ll wait until someone make a package ...
Nov 08 16:34:06 <alterego> That's a horrible plus ..
Nov 08 16:34:29 <alterego> That's for the media player I believe.
Nov 08 16:34:34 <timeless> ooh cool
Nov 08 16:34:43 <timeless> yeah, hence hte :(
Nov 08 16:34:47 <timeless> anyway, check this out
Nov 08 16:34:57 <timeless> javascript:styles='table,tr,td{display:inline}';%20newSS%20=%20document.createElement('link');%20newSS.rel%20=%20'stylesheet';%20newSS.href%20=%20'data:text/css,'%20+%20escape(styles);%20document.documentElement.childNodes[0].appendChild(newSS);%20void%200
Nov 08 16:34:57 <zoran> I'd buy some usb bluetooth dongle; opinions whatto get?
Nov 08 16:35:12 <|R> zoran : give me 2 sec
Nov 08 16:35:17 <timeless> if you have the sardine 26x26 page open
Nov 08 16:35:23 <timeless> [in firefox]
Nov 08 16:35:27 <timeless> load that url into that window
Nov 08 16:35:37 <timeless> and you should get results that are slightly more easy to scan :)
Nov 08 16:36:20 <workingplayya> anyone here who hast kagu with working remote?
Nov 08 16:36:49 <timeless> javascript:styles='table,tr,td{display:inline}%20font{display:none}';%20newSS%20=%20document.createElement('link');%20newSS.rel%20=%20'stylesheet';%20newSS.href%20=%20'data:text/css,'%20+%20escape(styles);%20document.documentElement.childNodes[0].appendChild(newSS);%20void%200
Nov 08 16:36:54 <timeless> is even better :)
Nov 08 16:38:55 <alterego> How do you mean load it into firefox?
Nov 08 16:39:02 <alterego> Append it on a query string?
Nov 08 16:39:11 <timeless> no, just enter it in the urlbar
Nov 08 16:39:13 <timeless> it's a url
Nov 08 16:39:27 <timeless> javascript: is a protocol, like http:
Nov 08 16:39:49 <alterego> Weird
Nov 08 16:39:51 <alterego> Had no idea.
Nov 08 16:40:10 <alterego> I don't know how you think that's easier ..
Nov 08 16:40:35 <workingplayya> new protocol js?
Nov 08 16:40:42 <alterego> I have no pgup or pgdn ..
Nov 08 16:41:02 <Khertan> i must go on ... bye
Nov 08 16:41:11 <workingplayya> i think it just changes things in the style settins of the page
Nov 08 16:41:13 <Khertan> and thanks foor help
Nov 08 16:41:18 <workingplayya> siju
Nov 08 16:41:31 <timeless> workingplayya: right
Nov 08 16:41:33 <L0cutus> alterego: point me to a good tutorial ruby+gtk(+maemo?) :)
Nov 08 16:41:41 <timeless> it's designed to be loaded in the sardine 26x26 page
Nov 08 16:41:53 <alterego> http://ruby-gnome2.sourceforge.jp
Nov 08 16:42:00 <alterego> There's a good tutorial there.
Nov 08 16:42:10 <alterego> Maemo, just look at my examples on the website.
Nov 08 16:42:27 <workingplayya> but maybe wrong charset
Nov 08 16:43:34 <alterego> L0cutus, ^^^
Nov 08 16:45:15 <L0cutus> http://ruby-gnome2.sourceforge.jp/it/index.html
Nov 08 16:45:17 <L0cutus> thanks :)
Nov 08 16:45:46 <czr> alterego, who is Maemo?
Nov 08 16:46:04 <alterego> It wasn't an address :P
Nov 08 16:46:26 <czr> :-)
Nov 08 16:49:34 <timeless> s/^M/for m/ ?
Nov 08 16:49:46 <timeless> or wrt
Nov 08 16:56:06 <zoran> opinions on usb bluetooth dongle to buy?
Nov 08 16:56:36 <alterego> csr
Nov 08 16:56:44 <alterego> 2.1
Nov 08 16:56:54 <alterego> Flashing blue LED
Nov 08 16:56:57 <alterego> sorted ..
Nov 08 16:57:34 <zoran> in stores in my area I could find gigabyte bt03d and canyon btu4
Nov 08 17:00:20 <alterego> timeless, http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_004.png
Nov 08 17:00:33 <L0cutus> mmm seems window.border_width API is changed from tutorial ;)
Nov 08 17:01:12 <rubiks> hello
Nov 08 17:01:12 <_Monkey> niihau, rubiks
Nov 08 17:01:18 <alterego> L0cutus, if you're doing this on the device or in the SDK then there will be differences. The current Gtk version is old in maemo.
Nov 08 17:01:20 <rubiks> anything new on OS2008?
Nov 08 17:01:28 <L0cutus> ops
Nov 08 17:01:50 <alterego> rubiks, when it gets released it'll be the newest IT OS.
Nov 08 17:04:17 <alterego> Right, I'm gonna get food and have a break. bbiab
Nov 08 17:08:58 <czr> until the italians come up with a newer version
Nov 08 17:10:11 <L0cutus> czr:  hohoho :D
Nov 08 17:10:38 <czr> it's christmas already?
Nov 08 17:11:00 <t_s_o> grumble, wsod, grumble. heh, i should have gone directly to nokia on day one. not do some silly run around with expansys...
Nov 08 17:12:05 <trunneml_> hi
Nov 08 17:17:28 <timeless> ok, fwiw, http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/ and http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/sardine/ now exist
Nov 08 17:17:34 <timeless> i make no guarantees about freshness :)
Nov 08 17:17:56 <timeless> they're currently just pointers to the other two
Nov 08 17:18:12 <trunneml_> someone know where to find the pkg_config file for expat
Nov 08 17:30:02 <lopz> re
Nov 08 17:30:49 <timeless> learningsolaris.com/archives/2006/03/10/mdb-tutorial-by-mcdougall-mauro/
Nov 08 17:31:24 <timeless> maybe www.opensolaris.org/os/community/mdb/
Nov 08 17:31:27 <timeless> oops
Nov 08 17:32:51 <shackan> timeless: you nokians are able to use gprof in sb? because I'm not, and it breaks even for a simple hello world
Nov 08 17:33:17 <timeless> i can' remember which ones they use
Nov 08 17:33:22 <timeless> it might be jprof
Nov 08 17:34:21 <shackan> I would not care and just try the executable on the device itself which is what interests me, if it wasn't that the gprof breakage kills every configure script (ie: you get C compiler is unable to execute etc if you turn profiling on)
Nov 08 17:34:47 <shackan> timeless: thanks, will try
Nov 08 17:36:50 <shackan> timeless: is it restricted to moz ?
Nov 08 17:37:05 <timeless> maybe i'm confusing tools, i suppose i could check a mailinglist
Nov 08 17:37:25 <shackan> np
Nov 08 17:39:29 <timeless> oprofile
Nov 08 17:40:06 <timeless> sorry, there are way too many profiling tools w/ similar names :)
Nov 08 17:40:26 <shackan> okay!
Nov 08 17:40:35 <timeless> and i've been around/seen most of them used in /some/ context, which makes my brain mush
Nov 08 17:41:16 <shackan> uh?
Nov 08 17:41:31 <shackan> like what?
Nov 08 17:42:34 <shackan> anyway, if I remember correctly oprofile is linux only and depends on a kernel module, which means it won't work in sb, but anyway, as long as it works on the metal :)
Nov 08 17:42:40 <timeless> cachegrind/quantify/jprof/....
Nov 08 17:43:03 <shackan> ugh, anything else? :D
Nov 08 17:43:20 <L0cutus> is possible to start a servce from osso-statusbar-cpu command list ? and if yes, how ?
Nov 08 17:43:20 <timeless> yes, but i need to finish release notes, not dig through cobwebs
Nov 08 17:43:28 <L0cutus> i've put a commandline on sudoers
Nov 08 17:43:40 <L0cutus> service*
Nov 08 17:44:29 <L0cutus> i've tryed "/etc/init.d/servicename start"
Nov 08 17:44:35 <L0cutus> but doesn't work
Nov 08 17:44:57 <L0cutus> from osso-xterm it work ok
Nov 08 17:50:18 <alterego> Wouldn't you need to do 'sudo /etc/init.d/servicename start' ?
Nov 08 17:50:35 <alterego> That's what I do for my enable BT script.
Nov 08 17:54:38 <||cw> yeah, sudoers isn't magic, you still need to sue the sudo command
Nov 08 18:00:11 <L0cutus> wow
Nov 08 18:00:16 <L0cutus> it work now :D
Nov 08 18:00:17 <L0cutus> thanks
Nov 08 18:09:21 <lopz> bye
Nov 08 18:12:20 <L0cutus> <alterego> That's what I do for my enable BT script.
Nov 08 18:12:31 <L0cutus> can you post here or query ?
Nov 08 18:12:54 <L0cutus> does it enable bt also if disabled from ctrl panel ?
Nov 08 18:20:11 <lardman> evening
Nov 08 18:23:30 <lardman> Does maemo-af-desktop include the launcher, etc.?
Nov 08 18:23:52 <lardman> hmm, maemo-launcher, I should learn to read better
Nov 08 18:31:09 <lardman> Is maemo-launcher used to speed the loading of applications (do avoid having to re-load/map shared libraries)?
Nov 08 18:35:40 <Robot101> lardman: yes, but also to avoid the initialisation time, and share data which is initialised once by the libraries
Nov 08 18:37:29 <lardman> It looks like it's a bit like busybox, depending on what it's called as it starts something else
Nov 08 18:38:10 <lardman> or rather its first argument (I think)
Nov 08 18:38:50 <lardman> I'm just wondering whether there's any error reporting functionality - people always complain that such a such doens't work, it would be nice to tell them why
Nov 08 18:42:20 <|R> haha kiddie attack
Nov 08 19:03:06 <|R> anyone has a good source/price for an Holux M-1200 GPS? :)
Nov 08 19:04:45 <straind> I got one on eBay.
Nov 08 19:06:54 <straind> |R: My price was $52.47 after s+h.
Nov 08 19:08:58 <|R> straind : ok, i'm bidding there right now
Nov 08 19:09:03 <|R> 25$ shipping to canada...
Nov 08 19:09:10 <|R> si i won't bid over 30 i think...
Nov 08 19:09:12 <|R> so
Nov 08 19:09:36 <straind> I used a sniping program and waited a few days to get my price.
Nov 08 19:10:03 <|R> straind : i guess i could try jbidwatcher :)
Nov 08 19:10:49 <straind> That's what I used.
Nov 08 19:11:15 <|R> can it do inter-bid things?
Nov 08 19:11:25 <|R> let's say: bid this on that item, if it fails try on that one
Nov 08 19:13:52 <|R> and what sniping delay did you use? (15 sec here)
Nov 08 19:14:07 <straind> Yeah.  Multi-snipe or something like that.  That's what I used, but it didn't work properly.  It won, but wasn't sure about it.  It didn't bid on any more though. YMMV
Nov 08 19:14:20 <|R> haha ok :)
Nov 08 19:14:27 <|R> i'll end up buying 10 GPS ;)
Nov 08 19:15:33 <straind> I had a 30 sec delay, but I did get outbid once.
Nov 08 19:16:21 <|R> I'll sync 2 minutes before it ends
Nov 08 19:16:23 <|R> we'll see :P
Nov 08 19:35:36 * fysa test
Nov 08 19:35:56 <bstock> real quick, if i have SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin and the flasher app, which flags do i use?
Nov 08 19:36:20 <bstock> is that a kernel image, jffs2 image, initfs image?
Nov 08 19:36:38 <robtaylor> bstock: fiasco
Nov 08 19:36:59 <robtaylor> bstock: -F <path> -b -f
Nov 08 19:37:41 <bstock> k thx
Nov 08 19:39:08 <lardman> robtaylor: -b?
Nov 08 19:39:47 <lardman> robtaylor: -f -R
Nov 08 19:40:07 <alterego> CTCP? Is that Russian?
Nov 08 19:40:22 <lardman> bstock: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux
Nov 08 19:40:36 <lardman> alterego: where's that from?
Nov 08 19:40:43 <Tak> yeah, freenode-connect can stop ping-flooding me anytime now
Nov 08 19:43:24 <alterego> IRC doesn't half have some insane characteristics.
Nov 08 19:43:59 <lardman> it's a script kiddie - did you see the announcemet earlier?
Nov 08 19:45:21 <||cw> no
Nov 08 19:45:56 <lardman> it just said sorry for the issues & they are working on blocking it
Nov 08 19:45:57 <robtaylor> lardman: -b = boot
Nov 08 19:46:14 <lardman> robtaylor: ah, okay, I'd not seen that one used before
Nov 08 19:46:16 <Tak> ah
Nov 08 19:46:21 <alterego> Neah, I don't read IRC announcements.
Nov 08 19:46:24 * Tak CTCP flood the ircops to hurry them along
Nov 08 19:46:33 <robtaylor> lardman: though i guess it makes sense to reboot after a full fiasco flash
Nov 08 19:46:41 <alterego> I just hide in my channels.
Nov 08 19:47:03 <alterego> Hahah
Nov 08 19:47:09 <alterego> Why wouldn't you reboot?
Nov 08 19:48:29 <robtaylor> alterego: reboot versus boot. boot being quicker.
Nov 08 19:48:37 <alterego> Ah
Nov 08 19:49:11 <alterego> I find flashing doesn't really take that long.
Nov 08 19:49:17 <alterego> How often do you do it? :D
Nov 08 19:49:33 <robtaylor> alterego: about 5 times a day at the moment
Nov 08 19:49:38 <robtaylor> ><
Nov 08 19:49:38 <alterego> Jeez.
Nov 08 19:49:42 <alterego> What device?
Nov 08 19:49:51 <alterego> And any particular reason?
Nov 08 19:50:02 <robtaylor> alterego: RX34, optimising HAL
Nov 08 19:50:17 <alterego> Or are you stress testing the flash so you can tell us how many times it's safe to flash them ;)
Nov 08 19:50:36 <alterego> That reminds me.
Nov 08 19:50:40 <alterego> I must bind HAL ..
Nov 08 19:50:46 <robtaylor> alterego: to what?
Nov 08 19:50:50 <alterego> ruby
Nov 08 19:51:04 <lardman> anyone happen to know where the function die() is defined?
Nov 08 19:51:16 <alterego> At the end of life.c lardman
Nov 08 19:51:41 * alterego contemplates applying for extras uploading privs.
Nov 08 19:51:59 <lardman> isn't that a switch(goodness), case(good) goto heaven; case(bad) goto hell; ?
Nov 08 19:52:13 <alterego> I'll probably get denied again until I get the other ruby project destroyed.
Nov 08 19:53:05 <robtaylor> alterego: there's already  ruby dbus bindings, thats all you need
Nov 08 19:53:22 <alterego> Those bindings are rubbish.
Nov 08 19:53:27 <alterego> In fact. They're not bindings.
Nov 08 19:53:45 <alterego> They wrap dbus-send etc.
Nov 08 19:53:49 <robtaylor> oh god
Nov 08 19:53:55 <alterego> Which reminds me. I should really work on ruby-dbus ..
Nov 08 19:53:59 <alterego> ;)
Nov 08 19:54:02 <robtaylor> alterego: +! for that!
Nov 08 19:54:09 <robtaylor> +1, even
Nov 08 19:54:26 <alterego> That was going to be my Christmas of Code project. ;)
Nov 08 19:55:11 <alterego> I started looking into it.
Nov 08 19:55:28 <alterego> With the current ruby-libosso bindings I've done you can make a working dbus service and client.
Nov 08 19:55:38 <alterego> So it wasn't really much of an emergency.
Nov 08 19:56:02 <ZenGeist> hi all
Nov 08 19:56:06 <ZenGeist> I have a problem
Nov 08 19:56:14 <ZenGeist> I can not update Pidgin :(
Nov 08 19:56:24 <alterego> Is it contagious?
Nov 08 19:56:43 <alterego> ZenGeist, have you tried uninstalling the previous version first?
Nov 08 19:56:50 <ZenGeist> alterego, no
Nov 08 19:57:15 <alterego> What device/OS are you using?
Nov 08 19:57:22 <ZenGeist> n800
Nov 08 19:57:24 <ZenGeist> os2007
Nov 08 19:57:24 <_Monkey> i guess os2007 is better but needs more memory
Nov 08 19:57:42 <alterego> Okay, I'll try updating myself hang on.
Nov 08 19:59:44 <Tak> alterego: you should be able to get extras permission regardless of whether you have / are eligible for a garage project
Nov 08 20:00:25 <alterego> Yeah, you're probably right,
Nov 08 20:00:42 <alterego> Still, I think it would be wise getting that ruby project removed.
Nov 08 20:00:56 <alterego> There can be only one >:(
Nov 08 20:00:59 <alterego> ^_^
Nov 08 20:01:37 <GeneralAntilles> Especially if it's dead.
Nov 08 20:01:57 <alterego> Yeah, you'd think that'd make it easier ..
Nov 08 20:02:11 <GeneralAntilles> Are they having a drunken party at freenode or something?
Nov 08 20:02:24 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody's doing it on kubrick
Nov 08 20:02:26 <alterego> I dunno. But it's very annoying ..
Nov 08 20:03:47 <alterego> ZenGeist, that release looks like it's for OS2008
Nov 08 20:04:01 <ZenGeist> hmmm...
Nov 08 20:04:04 <alterego> There's no 2.2 in my repository ..
Nov 08 20:04:28 <ZenGeist> alterego, but i set distribution to bora
Nov 08 20:04:43 <alterego> ZenGeist, bora isn't 2008 ..
Nov 08 20:04:51 <alterego> 2008 isn't even out yet ..
Nov 08 20:04:54 <ZenGeist> yes
Nov 08 20:05:09 <ZenGeist> alterego, visit http://pidgin.garage.maemo.org/
Nov 08 20:05:30 <ZenGeist> there are new repo setings
Nov 08 20:06:24 <alterego> Ah
Nov 08 20:08:41 <alterego> Right, no libgnutls.
Nov 08 20:08:44 <alterego> That's not good ..
Nov 08 20:08:53 <alterego> Oh well.
Nov 08 20:10:36 <ZenGeist> ^(
Nov 08 20:11:28 <ZenGeist> alterego, it needs maemo hackers repo
Nov 08 20:11:46 <ZenGeist> and... reinstall helps me
Nov 08 20:11:51 <ZenGeist> :)
Nov 08 20:11:52 <alterego> I have that repo ..
Nov 08 20:12:02 <alterego> So uninstalling fixed it?
Nov 08 20:12:17 <ZenGeist> yes
Nov 08 20:12:37 * alterego reinstalls
Nov 08 20:15:16 <alterego> Didn't work for me :/
Nov 08 20:30:26 <FMz> If anyone can be arsed, could someone do me a favor and test this on an n800 / n810:  http://skornicka-family.homeip.net:8080/lpubsite/
Nov 08 20:32:25 <alterego> Works fine. Bit small though.
Nov 08 20:33:59 <FMz> Cool :)  800 x 480 on n series isn't it?
Nov 08 20:34:19 <alterego> 800x480 on all the tablets.
Nov 08 20:36:58 * alterego finds a bug in ruby-maemo.
Nov 08 20:37:10 * alterego submits a bug report to himself.
Nov 08 20:37:47 <derf> The best part is when you get to mark your own bug closed.
Nov 08 20:37:58 <alterego> :)
Nov 08 20:38:08 <alterego> God.
Nov 08 20:38:17 <alterego> All this C code :S
Nov 08 20:38:25 <alterego> I don't remember writing this at all.
Nov 08 20:39:34 <alterego> Well, that was pretty easy to fix.
Nov 08 20:39:48 <alterego> Change a 1 to a -1
Nov 08 20:39:49 <_Monkey> alterego: that doesn't look right
Nov 08 20:39:50 <alterego> :)
Nov 08 20:39:59 <alterego> Well it is right _Monkey
Nov 08 20:40:18 <FMz> Fix'd.  That should look better.
Nov 08 20:41:15 <FMz> alterego: In a couple of sentences, how would you decribe the process of porting an app to Maemo?
Nov 08 20:41:31 <alterego> Erm
Nov 08 20:41:38 <alterego> I wouldn't know. I've not really ported an app.
Nov 08 20:41:59 <alterego> I wouldn't call ruby-maemo a port.
Nov 08 20:42:29 <FMz> Hmm... so it would be more like... erm... building an interaction layer.
Nov 08 20:42:40 <alterego> Yes, exactly.
Nov 08 20:43:08 <alterego> The majority of my issues actually came from the Ruby API. I'd not really had much experience creating C extensions so I was learning whilst doing.
Nov 08 20:43:29 <alterego> It was/is a lot of fun and I feel like a bit of a veteran now ^_^
Nov 08 20:43:38 <FMz> I'd love to do something like that.
Nov 08 20:43:47 <FMz> But... my C is very rusty.
Nov 08 20:43:57 <alterego> C is easy.
Nov 08 20:44:05 <alterego> Well, if it can be done in C it's easy.
Nov 08 20:44:12 <FMz> Learned it when I was 13.... forgot it all in the 11 years since.
Nov 08 20:44:13 <alterego> Sometimes things just can't be done.
Nov 08 20:45:19 <alterego> Well, there are plenty of other languages out there.
Nov 08 20:45:35 <alterego> I'm sure people would appreciate a Haskell-Maemo :)
Nov 08 20:45:47 <alterego> I'd like to do a Scheme-Maemo at somepoint myself.
Nov 08 20:46:47 <alterego> I should probably make my hildon bindings a bit more widely publicised.
Nov 08 20:47:10 <alterego> With all the ubuntu mobile stuff and happenings at Intel ..
Nov 08 20:48:31 <|R> straind : won at 57 (shipping + insurance..) oh well :)
Nov 08 20:49:05 <FMz> So... what is Hildon?  I keep seeing it, but no idea what it is.
Nov 08 20:49:16 <FMz> I took a few Ruby tutorials BTW.  It's... different.
Nov 08 20:49:45 <alterego> Which tutorials?
Nov 08 20:50:00 <FMz> I'm trying to decide between the "ease" of Ruby, and the power (and my history) of C.
Nov 08 20:50:03 <alterego> I wouldn't say Ruby is different.
Nov 08 20:50:20 <alterego> I'd say it takes the best parts of other languages.
Nov 08 20:50:28 <FMz> Tutorials on the Ruby site, and a couple of other small ones.
Nov 08 20:50:32 <alterego> It's like a Lisp/Perl/Python/Smalltalk hybrid
Nov 08 20:50:41 <FMz> I've never used any of them... lol
Nov 08 20:50:45 <alterego> What power of C?
Nov 08 20:51:14 <alterego> See is only really good at interfacing with hardware.
Nov 08 20:51:20 <alterego> s/See/C/
Nov 08 20:51:20 <infobot> alterego meant: C is only really good at interfacing with hardware.
Nov 08 20:51:21 <FMz> PHP, C, C++, SQL, HTML, Java, and basic is all I've done... heh
Nov 08 20:51:23 <alterego> ;)
Nov 08 20:51:35 <FMz> Hmm...
Nov 08 20:51:48 <alterego> Ah, I can see why you think Ruby is different.
Nov 08 20:51:51 <FMz> :)
Nov 08 20:51:56 <alterego> It's the only good language you've come across ^_^
Nov 08 20:52:08 <FMz> Ohhh, SNAP
Nov 08 20:52:09 <FMz> lol
Nov 08 20:52:11 <Tak> C is good at everything; it just takes a lot of carefully planned code.
Nov 08 20:52:19 <alterego> C is adequate
Nov 08 20:52:35 <alterego> Sure,
Nov 08 20:52:42 <alterego> I prefer a more agile approach.
Nov 08 20:52:51 <alterego> C involves a lot of mud wrestling.
Nov 08 20:52:55 <alterego> And not with chicks.
Nov 08 20:53:08 <FMz> Ruby just doesn't feel structured enough..
Nov 08 20:53:25 <alterego> Languages like Ruby and Python offer a very nice abstraction toolbox which makes programming come a lot more natural.
Nov 08 20:53:40 <alterego> FMz, we call that flexibility ;)
Nov 08 20:54:10 <alterego> The structure should come from you. Not the programming language.
Nov 08 20:56:08 * FMz mentally battles with himself between C and Ruby.
Nov 08 20:56:19 <alterego> I think people are scared of dynamic langauges like Ruby and Python, because they're used to getting hundreds of compiler errors. Which makes them feel like bad programmers. The majority of compilation errors are typos and other really small silly mistakes. All of which are made appearant when a program is run in a dynamic language aswell.
Nov 08 20:57:22 <Tak> mmm, wrestling with muddy bytes
Nov 08 20:57:38 <alterego> The advantages C have over these other languages. Speed, low-level hardware interaction etc. Can all be done in these high level languages by making small C extensions to do the low level task and abstract to a nice high level interface.
Nov 08 20:57:42 <straind> |R: Not bad.  It's a really nice GPS unit as long as you don't lose it. :)
Nov 08 20:58:41 <FMz> alterego: I like that idea.
Nov 08 20:58:45 <alterego> FMz, http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/ruby-maemo/CURRENT/Examples/basic_application.rb.txt
Nov 08 20:58:55 <alterego> That is a minimal maemo application
Nov 08 20:59:17 <alterego> Equivalent to the first example in the "official" maemo tutorial but in Ruby not C.
Nov 08 20:59:38 <FMz> That's.... simple.
Nov 08 20:59:41 <FMz> o_O
Nov 08 20:59:47 <FMz> I... I think I love it.
Nov 08 21:00:01 <Tak> I should add a simple rubygame example
Nov 08 21:00:17 <alterego> Tak, you write it I'll stick it in the examples directory :)
Nov 08 21:00:23 * Tak nods
Nov 08 21:03:21 <FMz> So, is Hildon just a gtk library?
Nov 08 21:03:36 <alterego> The majority is yes.
Nov 08 21:03:38 <p|> uaps :)
Nov 08 21:03:43 <czr> alterego, one advantage of C is also "what is get is what you get", instead of the interpreter doing stuff with memory allocations and like behind your back.
Nov 08 21:03:53 <czr> that is not achievable with "small extensions written in C".
Nov 08 21:03:59 <alterego> czr, that's an advantage?
Nov 08 21:04:11 <czr> assuming you know what you want, yes.
Nov 08 21:04:13 <alterego> I'd rather forget about memory allocation :P
Nov 08 21:04:18 <czr> see above.
Nov 08 21:04:28 <czr> granted, I'd rather write GUI stuff in python as well.
Nov 08 21:04:42 <czr> GTK+ is just mainly painful with C.
Nov 08 21:04:57 <alterego> I'm not sure I understand what that statement is supposed to mean.
Nov 08 21:05:04 <czr> which one?
Nov 08 21:05:05 <_Monkey> which one is it? :)
Nov 08 21:05:24 <alterego> Your C advantage about manual memory management
Nov 08 21:05:52 <alterego> You can manually manage memory in Ruby, but there's not really much point for the most part.
Nov 08 21:05:54 <czr> no. the advantage being that C does not have runtime stuff running behind your back. this includes memory management, but also other things.
Nov 08 21:05:55 <hircus> alterego, czr: tried Vala yet?
Nov 08 21:05:58 <FMz> I think I'm going to install Ruby on my girlfriend's PC to get used to using it with GTK.
Nov 08 21:06:15 <alterego> hircus, I've heard of it. Not tried it no.
Nov 08 21:06:22 <czr> hircus, nope. saw the example snippets though. doesn't seem to have too much docs though. looks interesting.
Nov 08 21:06:25 <alterego> FMz, good plan.
Nov 08 21:06:34 <hircus> there's a live CD project for Maemo that has Vala bundled with some nice examples
Nov 08 21:06:53 <alterego> The ruby-gnome2 project (home of ruby-gtk) is really good.
Nov 08 21:07:03 <hircus> yes, the documentation is still a bit lacking. the last release actually uses devhelp for docs, so it's a big improvement
Nov 08 21:07:19 <czr> hircus, a tutorial would be nice
Nov 08 21:07:33 <czr> something that would reimplement the basic stuff from the maemo tutorial for example. just as a comparative thingy.
Nov 08 21:08:00 <hircus> czr: true. let me look at what the examples in the live CDs are -- they're more comprehensive than the ones on the Vala site
Nov 08 21:08:10 <czr> ah. only seen the site really.
Nov 08 21:08:52 <hircus> czr: http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/
Nov 08 21:09:03 <hircus> you can just check out the vala code examples from SVN
Nov 08 21:09:12 <czr> alterego, btw, please don't think that I'm bashing ruby/any other interpreted language. I love them. I just don't agree that you can get _all_ of the advantages (real or perceived) of C in higher-level languages.
Nov 08 21:09:29 * alterego debates forgetting about OS2007 for now as OS2008 is so close.
Nov 08 21:09:38 <hircus> just checked -- four Hildon examples of varying complexities
Nov 08 21:09:51 <alterego> Though, I'd pretty much done that already.
Nov 08 21:09:56 <czr> hircus, reading source code is no the same as a tutorial :-)
Nov 08 21:10:06 <czr> hircus, I might take a look when I have some spare time.
Nov 08 21:10:25 <lopz> hola
Nov 08 21:10:45 <FMz> For anyone with an inquisitive mind, reading source code is better than a tutorial ;)
Nov 08 21:10:50 <FMz> IMHO, of course....
Nov 08 21:10:55 <czr> hircus, btw, do you know whether it's stable enough to be used in a real program? or is it subject to change still?
Nov 08 21:10:56 <hircus> czr: I agree, though at least it's not as painful. You can generally read a C# tutorial to learn the language (though not the API)
Nov 08 21:11:25 <czr> FMz, then my mind must be very boring by your standards.
Nov 08 21:11:42 <hircus> czr: they don't have complete bindings for everything, but there's a binding generator tool to wrap GLib-based libs, you can manually bind C functions, or ask upstream to include new things
Nov 08 21:11:48 <czr> I was more thinking in general acceptance. not me personally.
Nov 08 21:12:02 <czr> thinking of even.
Nov 08 21:12:18 <hircus> czr: it just outputs C code, so the parts that it can compile should work just fine
Nov 08 21:12:31 <czr> hircus, that wasn't really the question :-)
Nov 08 21:12:35 <FMz> Nah, anyone that can do anything with any of this stuff is actually quite respectable to me.
Nov 08 21:12:48 <Tak> Glade makes GUI stuff equally painless in any language
Nov 08 21:12:58 <czr> the question was: assume someone uses vala to write a program _now_. what are the odds that the same program will compile and build in the future?
Nov 08 21:16:05 <FMz> Is there a good reference for Ruby functions?  i.e.  php.net's massive centralized list.  Google doesn't seen to know about one
Nov 08 21:16:06 <hircus> czr: ah
Nov 08 21:16:56 <hircus> czr: there's been one incompatible change made so far, IIRC -- some syntactic change. My impression has been that the language spec is quite stable, but I've not tried writing large apps in it
Nov 08 21:17:07 <czr> hircus, right.
Nov 08 21:17:10 <alterego> FMz, http://ruby-doc.org/core & http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib
Nov 08 21:17:44 <alterego> FMz, everything there is in the standard ruby distribution.
Nov 08 21:18:28 <FMz> Wow... that's purdy... thanks again Alter... you do well in preaching the good news of the Rubydom
Nov 08 21:18:38 <alterego> Heh :)
Nov 08 21:18:43 <alterego> I try not to preach.
Nov 08 21:18:47 <czr> he sleeps with ruby :-)
Nov 08 21:18:52 <alterego> I just try to sound enthusiastic ;)
Nov 08 21:18:55 <czr> I have a written confession somewhere!
Nov 08 21:19:02 <alterego> :)
Nov 08 21:19:28 <straind> Gotta go get the kids dressed and ready to eay.
Nov 08 21:19:33 <straind> s/eay/eat
Nov 08 21:20:19 <czr> hmm. can't find the evidence. pity.
Nov 08 21:20:54 <alterego> Probably be somewhere near the place I said I'd like a girlfriend called Ruby
Nov 08 21:21:25 <alterego> I think you said something about a girl called Python would be a butch lesbian in some prison or something.
Nov 08 21:22:17 <czr> "Nov 07 16:36:41 <alterego>      All I need to do is find a girl called Ruby .."
Nov 08 21:22:26 <czr> hmm. somewhere around there :-)
Nov 08 21:22:40 <czr> although I'm guessing the timestamp is not UTC.
Nov 08 21:23:30 <czr> alterego, does ruby have working co-routines?
Nov 08 21:24:02 <suihkulokki> there's 500+ people called ruby on facebook, many seem to be women ;)
Nov 08 21:24:20 <czr> suihkulokki, what about women called python?
Nov 08 21:24:24 * czr gets his hopes up
Nov 08 21:24:26 <alterego> Hahah
Nov 08 21:24:44 <suihkulokki> I
Nov 08 21:24:47 <suihkulokki> err
Nov 08 21:24:53 <czr> we all err at some point.
Nov 08 21:24:57 <suihkulokki> I'm not sure I want to search for that :P
Nov 08 21:25:00 <hircus> czr: well, if we go to the superclass (Snake) it's a common male nickname :P
Nov 08 21:25:04 <czr> heh. can't blame you :-)
Nov 08 21:25:13 <alterego> czr, yes.
Nov 08 21:25:16 <hircus> Pythons and Boas are related, and Boa is a female name in Korea, I think
Nov 08 21:25:30 <czr> hmm. close enough!
Nov 08 21:25:41 <alterego> You can pass a block to a method and it can yeild to that block whenever.
Nov 08 21:25:51 <suihkulokki> Elizabeth Python
Nov 08 21:25:52 <alterego> The block can also cause the method to halt execution.
Nov 08 21:26:15 <suihkulokki> czr: seems to be a american cheerleader ;)
Nov 08 21:26:26 <czr> alterego, so I can have a function implementation where depending on stuff, it can suspend itself, so that externally it can be restarted exactly from the position where it paused itself?
Nov 08 21:26:43 <alterego> Are you talking about continuations?
Nov 08 21:26:48 <czr> suihkulokki, thanks. invites to the wedding are already in the mail
Nov 08 21:26:48 <doublec> ruby has continuations
Nov 08 21:27:19 <czr> not sure what you want to call them. co-routines is what they were originally called ages ago.
Nov 08 21:27:28 <suihkulokki> :P
Nov 08 21:27:29 <czr> maybe co-routines means something else nowadays then :-)
Nov 08 21:27:47 <alterego> I don't really use them but I can see how they can be useful in say stream processing etc.
Nov 08 21:28:02 <czr> stream processing, packet processing, event processing.
Nov 08 21:28:16 <czr> anything where you don't have all the data available in order to finish the operation.
Nov 08 21:28:24 <alterego> Right
Nov 08 21:28:41 <hircus> czr: Python lets you do that too, right?
Nov 08 21:28:50 <hircus> from 2.4 onwards
Nov 08 21:28:52 <alterego> Sure, Python has continuations.
Nov 08 21:29:03 <hircus> I think the term is generators
Nov 08 21:29:06 <czr> I'd think so. I don't do high-perf stuff in python though.
Nov 08 21:29:10 <alterego> Python has closures to right?
Nov 08 21:29:12 <czr> ah, but generators is not the same at all..
Nov 08 21:29:30 <hircus> full-scale continuations as used in languages like Scheme, let you capture a control point anytime, and resume to it later
Nov 08 21:29:40 <hircus> i.e. you can also rewind, not just pause and play
Nov 08 21:30:03 <czr> that's what I'm looking for. although the rewinding seems tad to much.
Nov 08 21:30:06 <alterego> I get what czr is saying. He's talking about flip-flop methods.
Nov 08 21:30:15 <czr> too much even.
Nov 08 21:30:23 <czr> although transactional cancelling would be ok too.
Nov 08 21:30:28 <hircus> Python has closures, yes. but its lambda construct is not fully-featured (you can create a function and then pass it as a return value, which does the same thing)
Nov 08 21:30:48 <alterego> Interestings.
Nov 08 21:31:05 <alterego> Ruby's blocks are awesome.
Nov 08 21:31:14 <hircus> czr: confusing terminology, I guess. Python generator functions are co-routines, and you can pass them arguments when resuming
Nov 08 21:31:21 <hircus> alterego: have they fixed it in 1.9 though?
Nov 08 21:31:21 <alterego> Especially with closures. Makes creating event handlers super cool ;)
Nov 08 21:31:33 <hircus> in Ruby 1.8 you have this problem:
Nov 08 21:31:38 <hircus> x = 42
Nov 08 21:31:39 <czr> hircus, probably. but python generators are fairly limited imho
Nov 08 21:31:46 <hircus> {|x| x = 20 }
Nov 08 21:31:59 <timeless> anyone here want to play a detective game?
Nov 08 21:32:02 <hircus> if your code block uses names that are defined outside, the internal value leaks out
Nov 08 21:32:04 <timeless> it's lots of fun
Nov 08 21:32:12 <alterego> hircus, I thought that was a feature.
Nov 08 21:32:12 <hircus> timeless: game?
Nov 08 21:32:13 <_Monkey> it has been said that game is being done in javascript, if I don't have a pixel buffer to prepare svg graphics at the beginning of a level instead of when it comes on screen, I'll have to substitute with prerendered png sprite sheets.
Nov 08 21:32:18 <alterego> :)
Nov 08 21:32:24 <|R> who was looking for a bluetooth adapter suggestion earlier?
Nov 08 21:32:25 <hircus> alterego: um :P
Nov 08 21:32:33 <timeless> hircus, i give you a url, and you try to decide what it's doing
Nov 08 21:32:34 <timeless> https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mozilla/trunk/microb-engine/microb-engine/debian/patches/660_BUG65511.imgdoc_zoom.diff?root=browser&r1=587&r2=590&pathrev=597
Nov 08 21:32:36 <alterego> hircus, my only issue with blocks are a block can't accept a block ;)
Nov 08 21:32:36 <timeless> that's a url
Nov 08 21:32:40 <timeless> what's it doing? :)
Nov 08 21:32:48 <|R> Cirago BTA-3210 works great in linux for me and is the smallest you can get i guess :) (for whoever was asking)
Nov 08 21:32:48 <timeless> everyone can play :)
Nov 08 21:33:12 <hircus> alterego: I guess in both Ruby and Python, blocks / lambdas are not 100% equivalent to full-blown functions
Nov 08 21:33:16 <timeless> https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php?root=browser&rev=590&view=rev
Nov 08 21:33:22 <timeless> is the "description" for what it's doing
Nov 08 21:33:51 <GeneralAntilles> Magic, timeless?
Nov 08 21:33:52 <alterego> hircus, yeah. But it's a distinction that isn't as bad a side effect in ruby as it is in Python.
Nov 08 21:34:01 <timeless> well, yes...
Nov 08 21:34:09 <timeless> but that's not quite helpful :)
Nov 08 21:34:32 <alterego> God, C++
Nov 08 21:34:35 <alterego> That's ugly code :P
Nov 08 21:34:44 <timeless> this isn't c++
Nov 08 21:34:49 <czr> alterego, what bad side effect would that be?
Nov 08 21:34:56 <timeless> it's patch-ghetti
Nov 08 21:35:05 <sp3000> mmm diffs of diffs
Nov 08 21:35:22 <timeless> sp3000: fun ain'tit?
Nov 08 21:35:31 <sp3000> I duppose if you mix some debian in you could possibly manage to get diffs of diffs of diffs?
Nov 08 21:35:38 <alterego> czr, side effect being the small head ache you get when something doesn't work to your expectations.
Nov 08 21:35:55 <czr> alterego, can you be more specific how exactly ruby is better in this aspect then?
Nov 08 21:35:57 <alterego> I didn't mean it in the context of a program ;)
Nov 08 21:35:57 <sp3000> but that could get a little hard to follow eventually
Nov 08 21:36:08 <timeless> sp3000: click "View Patch Patch"
Nov 08 21:36:12 <timeless> speaking of hard to follow
Nov 08 21:36:13 <czr> alterego, maybe I misunderstood then :-)
Nov 08 21:36:41 <sp3000> wtfbbq
Nov 08 21:36:57 <straind> |R: Are you able to remove that BT adapter from a usb port?  It's tiny!
Nov 08 21:36:59 <alterego> Pfft, I've not used Python since 2.4 what would I know :P
Nov 08 21:37:02 <sp3000> that's pretty clever :D
Nov 08 21:37:03 <czr> ruby continuations seem to be the closest thing to "co-routines" I was looking for.
Nov 08 21:37:21 <alterego> czr, or you could just write a couple of co-routines.
Nov 08 21:37:24 <timeless> arg
Nov 08 21:37:32 <sp3000> somebody is emitting their chrome from the wrong place
Nov 08 21:37:32 * timeless kicks garage
Nov 08 21:37:37 <timeless> i'm now "timeless -"
Nov 08 21:37:51 <czr> alterego, please be more specific (what you mean by co-routine).
Nov 08 21:38:00 <alterego> czr, I'll hack an example hang on.
Nov 08 21:38:08 <czr> right. just don't use ruby.
Nov 08 21:38:19 <czr> pseudocode preferred.
Nov 08 21:38:21 <alterego> Why not?
Nov 08 21:38:25 <czr> I don't read ruby.
Nov 08 21:38:42 <alterego> It'll be easy to read don't worry ;)
Nov 08 21:38:47 <czr> oh, ok then.
Nov 08 21:39:55 <alterego> Hmm ..
Nov 08 21:40:07 <timeless> sp3000: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2238
Nov 08 21:40:13 <alterego> I need something that'll become full. So I'm immitating it with a "max_size" variable.
Nov 08 21:41:05 <timeless> sp3000, should i reopen https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2136 or file a new bug? :)
Nov 08 21:41:24 <czr> alterego, np, I'll go out for a smoke, brb.
Nov 08 21:43:36 <timeless> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2239
Nov 08 21:45:57 <sp3000> do you have a first name?
Nov 08 21:46:18 <sp3000> oh, they're both required fields, meh
Nov 08 21:48:06 <timeless> it's stupid
Nov 08 21:48:11 <timeless> the right fix is to make them not required fields
Nov 08 21:48:22 <timeless> but instead, they wallpapered over the problem in one of N places
Nov 08 21:48:27 <alterego> czr, http://pastie.caboo.se/115634
Nov 08 21:48:28 <timeless> otoh, i feel right at home
Nov 08 21:48:34 <timeless> a browser engineer would have done the same thing :)
Nov 08 21:48:51 <timeless> I think this is what's called "problem based requirement design"
Nov 08 21:48:54 <alterego> czr, that's one approach to what I think you're talking about ;)
Nov 08 21:49:04 * czr looks
Nov 08 21:49:08 <milhouse> timeless - got a bugzilla question
Nov 08 21:49:17 <timeless> n.b. in this context "engineers" and "browser engineers" are people working for Nokia
Nov 08 21:49:27 <milhouse> Am seeing posts such as "*** This bug has been confirmed by popular vote. ***"
Nov 08 21:49:29 <timeless> and should not be confused with Mozilla engineers or Gecko engineers
Nov 08 21:49:33 <alterego> czr, it should be pretty self explanatory.
Nov 08 21:49:35 <timeless> milhouse: ok...
Nov 08 21:49:35 <czr> alterego, what is |var| ?
Nov 08 21:49:52 <alterego> They're parameters to the block.
Nov 08 21:49:56 <milhouse> apparently it's due to a bugzilla setting and appears whenever someone votes for a bug... i personally find it freaking annoying
Nov 08 21:50:15 <sp3000> milhouse: generally that means the reporter voted for it
Nov 08 21:50:16 <alterego> Just like: func(var, var, var); as a prototype in C. They declare the parameter names for use in the block
Nov 08 21:50:23 <czr> alterego, ah.
Nov 08 21:50:38 <milhouse> yeah, i thought it was someone being a smartass at first but apparently it's a bugzilla setting
Nov 08 21:50:40 <timeless> oh man, that's stupid
Nov 08 21:50:47 <milhouse> someone must have enabled it recently - never used to do that
Nov 08 21:50:57 <milhouse> and frankly i don't think it adds any value
Nov 08 21:50:57 <timeless> i enabled it, halfway
Nov 08 21:50:58 <sp3000> recently as in months at least
Nov 08 21:51:09 <timeless> i forced people to file bugs as unconfirmed
Nov 08 21:51:11 <milhouse> maybe - i've just noticed it then! :)
Nov 08 21:51:13 <timeless> but i didn't set a useful threshold
Nov 08 21:51:15 <czr> alterego, generator do |buffer| = ?
Nov 08 21:51:29 <alterego> czr, So the bottom bit. That calls the 'generator' method supplying itself as a block. Which is then called at the end of each loop with a buffer full of num's.
Nov 08 21:51:58 <alterego> yield calls the do ... end stuff from within the generator method.
Nov 08 21:52:10 <timeless> https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=has+been+confirmed
Nov 08 21:52:15 <timeless> there are only 15 such bugs
Nov 08 21:52:27 <milhouse> yeah
Nov 08 21:52:34 <timeless> ok, so an explanation
Nov 08 21:52:43 <timeless> 1. i don't want people who don't know what they're doing filing bad bugs
Nov 08 21:52:46 <timeless> 2. see 1
Nov 08 21:52:50 <milhouse> and a lot of them for the same guy - john rudd - hence my initial thought someone was being a smart ass
Nov 08 21:52:50 <czr> alterego, "supplying itself as a block"?
Nov 08 21:52:56 <milhouse> check bug 2087 for instance
Nov 08 21:52:57 <_Monkey> Bug 2087 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2087
Nov 08 21:53:00 <milhouse> oops, bug 2097
Nov 08 21:53:01 <_Monkey> Bug 2097 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2097
Nov 08 21:53:09 <alterego> czr, it's quite a simple concept but I'm a retard when it comes to explaining things. When you call a method in Ruby. You may also supply a complimentary block. That block can be invoked using 'yield' or stored in a variable.
Nov 08 21:53:20 <timeless> 3. the best way to do that is to force people who don't know what they're doing not to file bad bugs is to force them not to have canconfirm
Nov 08 21:53:23 <czr> bleh. I think I see what you mean though. that's a generator in python. not the thingy I'm really looking for.
Nov 08 21:53:38 <timeless> 4. maemo uses voting, which is fine (20 votes per person per product, 1 vote per bug)
Nov 08 21:53:51 <alterego> czr, it's sort of syntactic sugar for supplying an anonymous function.
Nov 08 21:53:56 <timeless> 5. the default votes to confirm is 1 (which is stupid, it should be 2, sp3000 or i could file a bug upstream)
Nov 08 21:54:02 <czr> alterego, ah, anonymous function then ;-)
Nov 08 21:54:16 <timeless> now, the first bug you showed had 3 votes
Nov 08 21:54:28 <timeless> my first reaction to complaints would have been to set the value to 3
Nov 08 21:54:33 <timeless> but that wouldn't have helped here
Nov 08 21:54:52 <timeless> so the follow on question is how many votes should it take
Nov 08 21:54:58 <milhouse> timeless - re 5, could you? it would be better if the threshold was higher, having it set at 1 is nuts
Nov 08 21:55:12 <czr> alterego, suppose you have some method in some object that will be called from 'generator' and it cannot return immediately. if it yields (internally), what will happen?
Nov 08 21:55:22 <timeless> yeah, i cna change it, but i need to pick a number
Nov 08 21:55:26 <timeless> is 5 a better number?
Nov 08 21:55:33 <sp3000> stats?
Nov 08 21:55:52 <alterego> czr, nothing. Unless generator supplies a block to that method.
Nov 08 21:55:58 <milhouse> yeah i didn't mean 2087 - i meant 2097, it has only one vote and one comment...
Nov 08 21:56:10 <milhouse> timeless - 4 or 5 sounds ok to me
Nov 08 21:56:14 <milhouse> go with 5
Nov 08 21:56:16 <milhouse> :)
Nov 08 21:56:17 <timeless> oddly, jake voted for 1458 and then removed the vote
Nov 08 21:56:29 <timeless> so he gamed voting
Nov 08 21:56:33 <czr> alterego, ok. I'm looking for an "effortless" way to suspent the execution of some function/method call chain. until data is available to the method at the bottom level and it can continue.
Nov 08 21:56:34 <sp3000> heh
Nov 08 21:56:44 <czr> alterego, hence, continuations looked much more fit for that use.
Nov 08 21:57:01 <alterego> czr, ah.
Nov 08 21:57:04 <timeless> jake kinda sorta *owns* bugzilla
Nov 08 21:57:12 <milhouse> timeless - i think even 3 would be ok to be honest
Nov 08 21:57:24 <sp3000> 5+ is 54 bugs apparently
Nov 08 21:57:28 <timeless> i'm thinking 3
Nov 08 21:57:30 <alterego> czr, asynchronously?
Nov 08 21:57:37 <czr> alterego, of course :-)
Nov 08 21:57:38 <timeless> sp3000: oh, interesting point
Nov 08 21:57:52 <alterego> czr, not entirely sure it's possible without threads :)
Nov 08 21:58:10 <czr> alterego, but nevermind, don't break your head thinking about it. I have an engine that does this using C and micro-contexts. very similar to how erlang does its magic, but much faster.
Nov 08 21:58:21 <timeless> sp3000: please remind me to find an engineer working on bug 2053
Nov 08 21:58:21 <_Monkey> Bug 2053 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2053
Nov 08 21:58:25 <timeless> they need to be yelled at
Nov 08 21:58:35 <czr> theres some asm involved, standard C doesn't allow interesting stuff.
Nov 08 21:58:39 <alterego> czr, sounds neat :) Why do you get all the interesting stuff ;)
Nov 08 21:58:58 <czr> alterego, I'm weird enough? it's not work related though. not directly at least.
Nov 08 21:59:07 <sp3000> https://bugs.maemo.org/report.cgi?y_axis_field=votes&format=table&action=wrap
Nov 08 21:59:09 <alterego> Ah
Nov 08 21:59:20 <timeless> i'm leaning to 3
Nov 08 21:59:25 <czr> alterego, I get >5M context switches from cold cache situation on a 2GHz P4 (random ones)
Nov 08 21:59:41 <czr> although it's slightly unfair as each coroutine doesn't actually do anything.
Nov 08 21:59:47 <alterego> Heh
Nov 08 21:59:49 <czr> >20M with hot-caches.
Nov 08 21:59:52 <timeless> yeah, john rudd is gaming the system
Nov 08 21:59:53 <czr> per second that is.
Nov 08 22:00:00 <timeless> but he took advantage of an error, that's my fault
Nov 08 22:00:01 <alterego> Of course.
Nov 08 22:00:25 <alterego> czr, are these coroutines anything like my callback methods?
Nov 08 22:00:33 <czr> alterego, debugging the stuff is pretty close to impossible though. gdb segfaults :-)
Nov 08 22:00:37 <czr> alterego, oh no.
Nov 08 22:00:40 <alterego> Heh
Nov 08 22:01:00 <czr> they're much closer to the continuations stuff. no anonymous functions required at all.
Nov 08 22:01:07 <alterego> I don't entirely understand this idea.
Nov 08 22:01:47 <czr> think about regular function call chains. function a calls function b calls function c which cannot continue immediately. it is then frozen until an external event will unfreeze it and it will continue.
Nov 08 22:01:58 <czr> (and at some point return to b, and return to a)
Nov 08 22:02:22 <alterego> Right
Nov 08 22:02:26 <czr> point being that implementing a and b do not need any special support for this. they're used just like regular functions
Nov 08 22:02:41 <alterego> Ah.
Nov 08 22:03:07 <czr> I wanted to implement a fast memory allocator for this as well, but decided that C isn't really useful for that
Nov 08 22:03:09 <alterego> So, without recursion?
Nov 08 22:03:16 <czr> maybe I'll rewrite it using LLVM at some point.
Nov 08 22:03:18 <alterego> More like leap frogging or something.
Nov 08 22:03:42 <czr> recursion has nothing to do with this. functions can recurse if they want.
Nov 08 22:04:00 <alterego> I'm just looking at an example on wikipedia.
Nov 08 22:04:07 <czr> alterego, think of a simple UDP-based networking application. you send a request and can continue only after a response (or a timeout)
Nov 08 22:04:36 <czr> search for 'co-routine implementation in C'. most of them don't work properly and do not support external wakeups though.
Nov 08 22:04:43 <timeless> sp3000: can you look at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2146#c19
Nov 08 22:04:45 <alterego> Heh
Nov 08 22:04:49 <timeless> i want to know how that works?
Nov 08 22:04:53 <czr> it's pretty crazy though, don't expect to find anything that works :-)
Nov 08 22:04:56 <timeless> s/.$/./
Nov 08 22:05:13 <milhouse> timeless - _monkey can help with bug references, eg. bug 2146 comment 19
Nov 08 22:05:26 <milhouse> oh bugger, that should have worked...
Nov 08 22:05:31 <timeless> i'd have to copy them
Nov 08 22:05:34 <milhouse> bug 2146 comment 19
Nov 08 22:05:37 <timeless> the urls are easier to reach
Nov 08 22:05:38 <milhouse> hmmm... borked
Nov 08 22:05:56 <doublec> protothreads is quite nice: http://www.sics.se/~adam/pt/
Nov 08 22:05:58 <milhouse> _monkey has dieed
Nov 08 22:06:06 <doublec> for C anyway
Nov 08 22:06:10 <alterego> Crap.
Nov 08 22:06:15 <sp3000> timeless: which part
Nov 08 22:06:30 <czr> alterego, the thing gets much more interesting once you want multiple concurrent co-routine domains ("threads" or whatever you want to call them).
Nov 08 22:06:38 <alterego> The API breaks between bora and chinook are kind of annoying.
Nov 08 22:06:57 <czr> alterego, and obviously memory allocation and transactional cancellation is pretty hard to do (impossible in C pretty much).
Nov 08 22:06:58 <timeless> sp3000: how it's sharing passwords
Nov 08 22:07:05 <timeless> is it using an external js file?
Nov 08 22:07:12 <timeless> if so, i can include that from a random site, right?
Nov 08 22:07:21 <alterego> I think I'll just stop ruby-maemo support < OS2008
Nov 08 22:07:50 <milhouse> bug 2146 comment 19
Nov 08 22:07:50 <_Monkey> Bug 2146 comment 19 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2146#c19
Nov 08 22:07:54 <timeless> that's funny
Nov 08 22:07:57 <milhouse> _monkey good boy
Nov 08 22:07:58 <_Monkey> :)
Nov 08 22:08:07 <timeless> i set votes to confirm or misdirected to 20
Nov 08 22:11:24 <timeless> milhouse: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=403094 filed
Nov 08 22:11:26 <timeless> thanks
Nov 08 22:11:51 <milhouse> no thank you :)
Nov 08 22:12:38 <timeless> anyway, if 3 becomes an issue, well.... it's easily bumpable
Nov 08 22:12:56 <milhouse> does that mean in maemo bugzilla the setting is now 3?
Nov 08 22:13:05 <timeless> yes
Nov 08 22:13:11 <milhouse> cool, many thanks
Nov 08 22:13:24 <timeless> most of the bugs i saw had about 3 people complaining about them
Nov 08 22:13:34 <timeless> and they were generally real enough
Nov 08 22:14:03 <timeless> making the number too high can encourage people to game the system by creating clone accounts
Nov 08 22:14:43 <milhouse> not sure i can see the point myself - not sure votes have that much influence
Nov 08 22:15:21 <milhouse> at least not much influence in maemo bugzilla, maybe more influence elsewhere
Nov 08 22:16:29 <timeless> what's #milhouse ??
Nov 08 22:17:36 <sp3000> heh 'This may be due to me missing the "do not use capital letters" in the username section when I created the account.'
Nov 08 22:18:48 <timeless> "10 people consistnetly strongly feel this is important"
Nov 08 22:19:17 <timeless> engineers generally ignore voting
Nov 08 22:19:38 <timeless> but at least, in a world like this w/ a company, it's potentially useful
Nov 08 22:20:13 <timeless> the reason for the comment itself is because votes are transient
Nov 08 22:20:32 <timeless> if a bug has 2 votes today, is unconfirmed, and the threshold is 3
Nov 08 22:20:48 <timeless> you want something to record when/why/how the bug transitioned to confirmed
Nov 08 22:21:28 <timeless> now,bugzilla  could theoretically seal into the activity log a list of all the voters it took to confirm the bug
Nov 08 22:21:34 <timeless> but... it doesn't :)
Nov 08 22:21:53 <milhouse> blimey... bug 621 can be closed now surely?
Nov 08 22:21:54 <_Monkey> Bug 621 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=621
Nov 08 22:22:10 <milhouse> (just going through the top voted bugs...)
Nov 08 22:22:25 <milhouse> 621 has 19 votes - "Unable to use 2GB MMC cards" :)
Nov 08 22:22:59 <timeless> can you go through fixed bugs and set target milestones to the version that had the fix?
Nov 08 22:23:13 <milhouse> me? i can give it a try
Nov 08 22:23:19 <milhouse> should i close them too?
Nov 08 22:23:24 <milhouse> -> CLOSED?
Nov 08 22:23:40 <timeless> persoanlly i'd just move things to verified
Nov 08 22:23:49 <milhouse> who should close the bug?
Nov 08 22:23:53 <timeless> i like to reserve closed for an admin to come up w/ a story
Nov 08 22:24:14 <timeless> arguably products that have shipped or retired are a fairly good choice
Nov 08 22:24:22 <milhouse> i'd agree, but do we have anyone doing that?
Nov 08 22:24:31 <timeless> so probably all verified 770 bugs should transition to closed
Nov 08 22:24:40 <timeless> but that'd involve talking to jake/quim
Nov 08 22:24:43 <timeless> and i have other problems
Nov 08 22:24:55 <timeless>  Bugfix update #2 - This is the latest one currently!
Nov 08 22:24:57 * timeless chuckles
Nov 08 22:24:58 <milhouse> bug 621 should have been closed when OS 2006 3.2006.49-2 (or was it 2.2006.39-14?) shipped
Nov 08 22:24:59 <_Monkey> Bug 621 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=621
Nov 08 22:25:11 <timeless> dunno
Nov 08 22:25:13 <sp3000> dunno if closed adds a whole lot of value
Nov 08 22:25:15 <timeless> finding the release notes is a pain
Nov 08 22:25:26 <milhouse> sp3000 - takes it out of the searches
Nov 08 22:25:31 <sp3000> ew
Nov 08 22:25:45 * sp3000 dislikes anything that takes things out of searches :)
Nov 08 22:25:54 <sp3000> in the general case anyhow
Nov 08 22:26:05 <milhouse> :) i guess i could exclude resolved from my search!
Nov 08 22:26:28 <timeless> http://nokia770.wordpress.com/2006/11/03/2200639-14-it2006-release-notes/
Nov 08 22:26:30 <milhouse> anyone remember when 2gb support was added - 2nd or 3rd release of OS 2006?
Nov 08 22:26:32 <timeless> it's that one
Nov 08 22:26:39 <timeless> it's explicitly listed :)
Nov 08 22:26:45 <timeless> o Capability to use 2GB RS-MMC memory cards
Nov 08 22:26:49 <milhouse> that looks like 3.2006 - thanks timeless
Nov 08 22:27:28 <timeless> no
Nov 08 22:27:32 <milhouse> ooh... now the milestone is in terms of maemo... so 3.2006 of OS 2006 is 2.1?
Nov 08 22:27:35 <timeless> #
Nov 08 22:27:35 <timeless> # 2.1 - 2.2006.39-14 scirocco
Nov 08 22:27:40 <milhouse> 2.2?
Nov 08 22:27:41 <_Monkey> well, 2.2 is the latest official it2006
Nov 08 22:27:46 <timeless> gah
Nov 08 22:27:52 <timeless> 2.2006.39-14 IT2006 Release Notes
Nov 08 22:27:55 <timeless> so it's 2.1
Nov 08 22:28:05 <milhouse> ah ok - thanks
Nov 08 22:28:08 <timeless> http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/8/
Nov 08 22:28:15 <timeless> has the "table"
Nov 08 22:28:45 <milhouse> handy
Nov 08 22:28:57 <timeless> yeah :)
Nov 08 22:29:28 <timeless> Have I visited this website before today? Yes, 32 times
Nov 08 22:29:33 <milhouse> updated milestone to 2.1 on bug 621, left it resolved fixed
Nov 08 22:29:33 <timeless> (so says minefield)
Nov 08 22:29:34 <_Monkey> Bug 621 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=621
Nov 08 22:29:43 <milhouse> have just emailed about 30 peeps... :)
Nov 08 22:29:58 <timeless> i've visited the internal one ~400 times :)
Nov 08 22:30:22 <timeless> course, part of that might have been while i was writing the page :)
Nov 08 22:32:09 * sp3000 likes how the content on that page info pane fits into the window ...not
Nov 08 22:33:07 <milhouse> bug 976 was fixed in 3.2 i believe... anyone disagree?
Nov 08 22:33:08 <_Monkey> Bug 976 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=976
Nov 08 22:33:20 <timeless> sp3000: how's bug 65511 look?
Nov 08 22:33:21 <_Monkey> Bug 65511 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65511
Nov 08 22:33:32 <timeless> or it might not be!
Nov 08 22:33:40 <alterego> Hmm .. I'm going to have to restructure my project page.
Nov 08 22:33:59 <alterego> I didn't think about different package versioning ..
Nov 08 22:34:03 <milhouse> timeless - doesn't look like anyone is willing to verify it's fixed!
Nov 08 22:34:06 <alterego> independant version even ..
Nov 08 22:34:10 <bstock> hey i'm trying to install maemo mapper on OS2006, its saying 'Depends: hildon-libs0 (>= 0.12.24-3) but 0.12.22-1 is to be installed'
Nov 08 22:34:25 <bstock> is there a repo or something for hildon-libs0 i can add?
Nov 08 22:34:30 <alterego> bstock, look at the numbers.
Nov 08 22:34:33 <sp3000> that looks like in a likely range for a tracker I can't see from here :)
Nov 08 22:34:40 <timeless> milhouse: well, they claim it was fixed in a release, 3.2 seems like the only one
Nov 08 22:34:48 <bstock> alterego: ya, it wants a newer version of hildon-libs
Nov 08 22:35:00 <alterego> Maybe you should update to OS2007HE
Nov 08 22:35:05 <timeless> oh, could you set the hardware, os, and version?
Nov 08 22:35:18 <timeless> n800/itos/3.0
Nov 08 22:35:22 <bstock> last time i tried that, i couldn't run maemo mapper at all, nor xournal
Nov 08 22:35:30 <bstock> and those are the 2 apps i use most heavily
Nov 08 22:35:51 <milhouse> timeless - done
Nov 08 22:35:54 <timeless> milhouse: there are 17 voters, a reporter, and 2 cc's
Nov 08 22:36:17 <milhouse> you'd think someone would have commented if it was still happening
Nov 08 22:36:24 <timeless> i think it's not unreasonable to make a note to yourself to send them an email in 7 days asking if any of them have had problems, have not upgraded, etc
Nov 08 22:37:02 * timeless likes the taktaktak account in bugs.maemo :)
Nov 08 22:37:07 <alterego> Hmm, I'm gonna be releasing 0.3.0 tomorrow.
Nov 08 22:37:25 <alterego> Well, I could do it tonight I guess.
Nov 08 22:38:09 <timeless> gah, sp3000, what version do you have?
Nov 08 22:38:14 <timeless> i think i have 39 and maybe a 42
Nov 08 22:38:16 * timeless hunts a 42
Nov 08 22:38:52 <sp3000> still w26 :D
Nov 08 22:39:57 <timeless> hrm, i should use a picure from stress for his :)
Nov 08 22:42:27 * sp3000 frowns at "latest" in c16
Nov 08 22:42:32 * sp3000 dislikes "latest"
Nov 08 22:43:40 <timeless> um, bluetooth is flaky
Nov 08 22:44:20 * timeless kicks bluetooth for being modal
Nov 08 22:45:06 <sp3000> use gnomevfs-copy from command-line :P
Nov 08 22:45:10 <timeless> nice, web browser pops to front at least twice while loading in the "background"
Nov 08 22:46:11 <sp3000> whodunnit, content or chrome
Nov 08 22:46:28 <alterego> timeless, yeah. That's f*cking annoying.
Nov 08 22:46:57 <sp3000> clearly I don't download things enough :)
Nov 08 22:47:22 <timeless> sp3000: download?
Nov 08 22:47:22 <_Monkey> download is probably going to end up at a couple of hundred megs.
Nov 08 22:47:27 <alterego> I get that from opening pages and task switching
Nov 08 22:47:30 <timeless> i'm talking about launching from tn
Nov 08 22:47:30 <alterego> Not downloading files.
Nov 08 22:47:37 <timeless> and then opening images(app from tn)
Nov 08 22:47:48 <timeless> it pops o front twice while i'm using images
Nov 08 22:47:58 <milhouse> alterego: me too, fcking annoying
Nov 08 22:48:05 <alterego> :)
Nov 08 22:48:19 <sp3000> hum
Nov 08 22:48:26 <sp3000> I don't think I see that
Nov 08 22:49:07 <sp3000> that is, infrequently enough that I'd like to blame content for asking for something resembling that
Nov 08 22:49:18 <milhouse> sp3000: try and view a complex page and then switch away to another window/app using the task switch - it's nigh on impossible depending on the complexity of the page being downloaded
Nov 08 22:49:33 <milhouse> i wonder if it's got anything to do with changing page title etc.
Nov 08 22:49:33 <timeless> oh, sp3000?
Nov 08 22:49:53 <timeless> can you find an image that's 600x300?
Nov 08 22:50:11 <timeless> at that size, it should fit into the browser normally, right?
Nov 08 22:50:15 <sp3000> milhouse: testcase?
Nov 08 22:50:17 <sp3000> can I blame a plugin? :)
Nov 08 22:50:31 <timeless> sp3000: suppose you zoom that image
Nov 08 22:50:33 <milhouse> sp3000: hmm... tricky... i tend to notice it on forum pages
Nov 08 22:50:42 <timeless> say to 240%
Nov 08 22:50:52 <timeless> at this point, the image will no longer fit on the screen, right?
Nov 08 22:51:01 <timeless> what should happen if you tap the image? :)
Nov 08 22:51:11 <sp3000> istr there might be some forum software that is/canbeconfiguredtobe focus() happy?
Nov 08 22:52:20 <milhouse> mind you, the task switcher and application focus is pretty screwed up - see bug 2185
Nov 08 22:52:21 <_Monkey> Bug 2185 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2185
Nov 08 22:53:39 <timeless> cool.
Nov 08 22:53:55 <timeless> you can't click to shrink an image if it's 600x360 and it is zoomed to 240% :)
Nov 08 22:54:15 * alterego packages up ruby-maemo 0.3.0 :)
Nov 08 22:55:09 <sp3000> hrm, our history isn't gooey-configurable to a useful size?
Nov 08 22:55:10 <alterego> Hahah
Nov 08 22:55:24 <timeless> of course not
Nov 08 22:55:31 <timeless> but you can gooey configure some "cache"
Nov 08 22:55:37 <timeless> and "automatic redirection"
Nov 08 22:55:45 <sp3000> timeless: like http://nullfield.dyndns.org/~tt/an-image-that-is-600x300.png ?
Nov 08 22:55:48 <timeless> that's the red button painted on the side of a wall
Nov 08 22:55:54 <timeless> it doesn't do anything :)
Nov 08 22:56:06 <timeless> sp3000: i used Images, loaded panda, and used resize 75% :)
Nov 08 22:56:41 <timeless> sorry :)
Nov 08 23:05:01 * timeless sighs
Nov 08 23:05:06 <timeless> zooming an image doesn't trigger "Updating"
Nov 08 23:05:17 <timeless> even tough tthat'd be bboth logical and useful
Nov 08 23:06:05 <sp3001> not that I'm interested in the history size being gooey-configurable, more like it being of a useful size :\
Nov 08 23:06:31 <timeless> wha do you mean by history?
Nov 08 23:06:41 <timeless> bfcache, back/forward nav?
Nov 08 23:06:46 <timeless> history count?
Nov 08 23:06:54 <timeless> (i.e. window)
Nov 08 23:09:08 <sp3000> the one that saves me typing :)
Nov 08 23:11:17 <timeless> vkb :)
Nov 08 23:12:06 <sp3000> vkb is somewhat less informed in that input domain :\
Nov 08 23:13:36 <sp3000> hm, 9 days apparently. it's short enough to feel unreliable
Nov 08 23:14:07 <sp3000> but of course it depends on usage pattern from user to another how frequently it'll fail
Nov 08 23:15:13 * sp3000 adds a zero
Nov 08 23:18:02 <milhouse> timeless - is there a reason why document.title = "XXX" doesn't change the window title in MicroB? security?
Nov 08 23:45:35 <timeless> sp3000:
Nov 08 23:45:35 <timeless>  2. In testing it seems that you may need to zoom
Nov 08 23:45:35 <timeless> once first before you can use tap to shrink to fit after having previously
Nov 08 23:45:35 <timeless> scaled an image in the window.
Nov 08 23:45:49 <timeless> that bug's *great* :)
Nov 09 00:01:17 * sp3000 notices this old microb gets a js alert title in finnish that is ...well, the kind of alert that involves klaxons or such
Nov 09 00:03:45 <timeless> klaxons?
Nov 09 00:04:19 <timeless> it's probably eal, most likely there's no api for it exposed in eal (i.e., it probably assumes this won't happen)
Nov 09 00:04:59 <atariii> anyone here got the xterm advanced deb? the rep and one click install seems down :(
Nov 09 00:16:31 <sp3000> timeless: otoh I don't suppose the englishh term makes any more sense
Nov 09 00:18:04 <sp3000> since for a non-technical audience I suppose 'alert' means something bad happened
Nov 09 00:18:16 <sp3000> then again, a js alert() happening is something bad :P
Nov 09 00:18:18 <milhouse> oh man, all i got for my 16th birdway was a video game... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/08/school_incident
Nov 09 00:18:27 <milhouse> s/birdway/birthday/
Nov 09 00:18:27 <infobot> milhouse meant: oh man, all i got for my 16th birthday was a video game... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/08/school_incident
Nov 09 00:23:35 * alterego refrains from telling a story about himself in his documentation :D
Nov 09 00:53:03 <MarkusT> This might be a strange question :-). My sister is searching for an "ebay capable" device for her husband. So that he's able to surf ebay from the living room. I think a N800 is a nice tool for that, but since I'm not owning one, I can't tell for sure. I installed the maemo sdk to check how ebay would look on a maemo system, but it seems no browser is available in the repositories. I also searched google images for some screenshots, but couldn't fi
Nov 09 00:55:50 <alterego> MarkusT, you have to zoom out one level to fit the whole width but it renders perfectly on the device.
Nov 09 00:57:21 <alterego> MarkusT, http://alterego.freeshell.org/ebay-n800.png
Nov 09 00:58:45 <lopz> re
Nov 09 00:59:17 <MarkusT> Thank you *sooooooooooooo* much alterego! The device will be his x-mas present, so you might have made him quite happy. Thanks again!
Nov 09 00:59:28 <alterego> No problem :)
Nov 09 01:00:18 <sciboy> Zoooom
Nov 09 01:00:30 <alterego> ruby-maemo  0.3.0 is now out.
Nov 09 01:00:44 <alterego> With hildon-fm and a few bug fixes.
Nov 09 01:00:46 <sciboy> alterego, It's official, I'm now a blender junky. I'll be specialising in it as my main tool for animation etc.
Nov 09 01:01:23 <alterego> sciboy, nice. From what I've used of it, it's very agreable :)
Nov 09 01:01:38 <sciboy> It's the one tool I keep coming back to, might as well stick to it.
Nov 09 01:02:09 <sciboy> It's powerful and reliable. =P
Nov 09 01:02:33 <sciboy> Plus macro's will be implemented soon and things are going to be insanely easy after that.
Nov 09 01:04:29 <sciboy> That was my only real concern since I tend to repeat settings a lot.
Nov 09 01:04:49 <alterego> Ah
Nov 09 01:09:21 <alterego> Is it me or are those pidgin folks cheating ..
Nov 09 01:09:54 <alterego> Setting their updated date to some time in the future so they're always at the to of the "Fresh" list in the downloads page.
Nov 09 01:15:41 <sciboy> Having something that to me should've taken a few seconds for each of the hundreds of objects I'd be setting up, instead taking 5 minutes to hit all the right options was disconcerting.
Nov 09 01:16:50 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Nov 09 01:17:20 <sp3000> oh, some maemo css still makes visited links larger than unvisited ones
Nov 09 01:17:31 <sp3000> sigfh
Nov 09 01:17:35 <sp3000> sigh even
Nov 09 01:18:02 * sp3000 should bug. tomorrow.
Nov 09 02:26:39 <Luria> hmmm
Nov 09 02:26:44 <Luria> quiet all around.
Nov 09 02:27:19 <Luria> any reliable rumors as to the chinook release?
Nov 09 02:29:36 <Luria> guess not
Nov 09 02:54:55 <GeneralAntilles> Ha. I've been doing VNC demos for people considering buying an N800.
Nov 09 02:56:15 <ol_schoola> thats nothin. just use it to stream your recorded shows and vids from your mythtv system via ssh or vpn. that'll stop em dead
Nov 09 02:57:28 <ol_schoola> i've had my 800 six days and ... and ... and ... well, there's just to much joy right now to even speak
Nov 09 02:58:38 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Nov 09 02:58:41 <GeneralAntilles> No MythTV rig here. :P
Nov 09 02:59:02 * ol_schoola doesn't know what bell or whistle to play with next
Nov 09 02:59:15 <GeneralAntilles> Quake
Nov 09 02:59:15 <GeneralAntilles> duh
Nov 09 02:59:35 <ol_schoola> omg
Nov 09 02:59:46 <ol_schoola> i am afk for the next three hours
Nov 09 02:59:52 <GeneralAntilles> aflegg's mediaserv
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 09 02:59:57 2007