**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 10 02:59:56 2007
Nov 10 03:14:21 <Solarion> did the device discount code mailer program have difficulties?  I got a weird HTML page sent as text/plain
Nov 10 03:17:34 <pofesin> when i try and download files, it claims im low on memory... no matter where i try and save the file.
Nov 10 03:17:40 <pofesin> n800 btw
Nov 10 03:17:52 <pofesin> any ideas?
Nov 10 03:18:22 <pofesin> hm.
Nov 10 03:25:03 <|R> Solarion /clear
Nov 10 03:25:06 <|R> oops
Nov 10 03:25:13 <|R> Solarion : here it is fine
Nov 10 03:25:20 <|R> but many people seem to complain about this :)
Nov 10 03:34:04 <lopz> brb
Nov 10 04:03:20 <lopz> re
Nov 10 04:25:37 <rhykin> hm
Nov 10 04:25:50 <rhykin> i see chinook has been officially released
Nov 10 05:29:35 <nelson> Solarion: yes, I got  the weird HTML followed by plain text also.
Nov 10 05:30:07 <|R> On gmail it came out fine (is anyone having this problem with gmail?)
Nov 10 05:49:05 <unique311> friday night...well saturday morning in a couple of minutes...no firm upgrade.
Nov 10 05:49:12 <unique311> sucks....next week it is then.
Nov 10 06:39:11 <lopz> bye
Nov 10 07:34:16 <_matthias_> woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo N810 accepted!
Nov 10 08:13:17 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 10 08:13:22 <Jaffa> _matthias_: cool, congrats
Nov 10 08:48:16 <kulve> any words about the camera quality in n810 compared to n800?
Nov 10 09:43:40 <slack> hi there!
Nov 10 10:00:30 <p|> Buongiorno | Morning !
Nov 10 10:05:38 <slack> hello :)
Nov 10 10:09:44 <sciboy> Hi. =D
Nov 10 10:21:08 <Jaffa> BTW, is it possible to upgrade a Chinook beta SDK to the final version?
Nov 10 10:24:58 <czr> jaffa, the little birds have told me that this shouldn't be attempted.
Nov 10 10:25:02 <czr> haven't tried it myself though.
Nov 10 10:25:12 <Jaffa> Bah. Well that's just annoying.
Nov 10 10:25:18 <czr> indeed.
Nov 10 10:25:23 <czr> I blame it on the little birds.
Nov 10 10:25:58 <p|> any way to use PAN connection with latest OS2007
Nov 10 10:26:00 <p|> ?
Nov 10 10:27:12 <p|> (since it doesn't have bnep.ko module :-\)
Nov 10 10:34:59 <maddler> whois p|
Nov 10 10:35:04 <maddler> whops :D
Nov 10 10:35:09 <maddler> monring everyone! :D
Nov 10 10:35:15 <Jaffa> 'lo maddler
Nov 10 10:35:19 <maddler> buongiorno p|! ;)
Nov 10 10:39:36 <Jaffa> Mrs Jaffa says I've got to order a new memory card for my N810 today :)
Nov 10 10:40:41 <p|> ciao maddler :)
Nov 10 10:46:12 <maddler> Jaffa: lol! :D
Nov 10 10:46:16 <maddler> p|: :)
Nov 10 10:46:45 <maddler> Jaffa: at this point I don't know how many memory cards I have...
Nov 10 10:46:53 <maddler> Jaffa: I guess some 10... or so...
Nov 10 10:47:04 <maddler> phone... n800... nds... n810...
Nov 10 10:47:05 * Jaffa is trying to work out the cheapest, largest Mini or Micro SD card
Nov 10 10:47:21 <Jaffa> Probably 4GB or 8GB
Nov 10 10:47:34 <maddler> SandDisk 4GB SDHC ~50E here...
Nov 10 10:47:46 <Jaffa> URL?
Nov 10 10:48:04 <maddler> shop after the corner... :D
Nov 10 10:48:08 <Jaffa> :)
Nov 10 10:48:20 <maddler> but if you wish I could ship it to you...
Nov 10 10:48:23 <maddler> not a problem...
Nov 10 10:48:34 <Jaffa> I've found ones about 30ukp - so about 50eur
Nov 10 10:48:44 <maddler> yep
Nov 10 10:49:19 <maddler> I'm considering to buy one for my MP3 player as well...
Nov 10 10:49:46 <Jaffa> http://www.lambda-tek.com/componentshop/index.pl?origin=gbase8.2&prodID=B84971 looks quite like a bargain
Nov 10 10:56:07 <tux2> hello
Nov 10 10:56:19 <tux2> maemo planet
Nov 10 10:58:44 <tux2> 	
Nov 10 10:58:44 <tux2> I want to write about news maemo planet but I do not know how to do? I'm Italian developer & blogger maemo, register from time on maemo.org
Nov 10 10:58:52 <tux2> help me
Nov 10 11:00:41 <kulve> tux2: If I understood you correctly, set up a blog for you and ask some maemo poeple to add your blog to planet.maemo.org
Nov 10 11:10:02 <tux2> ok kulve
Nov 10 11:10:12 <tux2> thanks
Nov 10 11:10:47 <tux2> kulve i'have a blog
Nov 10 11:11:06 <onion> thank you nokia
Nov 10 11:12:04 <tux2> How do I write news on maemo planet
Nov 10 11:12:49 <kulve> tux2: just write maemo stuff to your blog and then ask somebody (maemo-user/devel list?) to add your blog there
Nov 10 11:12:50 <tux2> to link my blog to planet
Nov 10 11:13:13 <Jaffa> email: planet@maemo.org
Nov 10 11:13:16 <tux2> yes I memeo-user/devel
Nov 10 11:13:30 <kulve> i.e. you don't write to planet.maemo.org, they pull/whatever your blog to there
Nov 10 11:14:15 <tux2> ah Now I understand
Nov 10 11:14:19 <Crying_EM0_Soul> z 'vj
Nov 10 11:14:22 <Crying_EM0_Soul>  ÿ ýìî
Nov 10 11:23:59 <Jaffa> Right, one SanDisk MicroSD 6GB card ordered, + MiniSD adapter + 1 x 1GB MiniSD Sandisk card
Nov 10 11:32:33 <ertwroc> Hi, after some work of my app maemo killed it (i got "killed" msg, and app was stopped). Someone know what's going on?
Nov 10 11:33:19 <p|> ciao tux2
Nov 10 11:33:21 <kulve> ertwroc: it took too much memory?
Nov 10 11:33:38 <kulve> ertwroc: or does it always die like 10 secs after starting it?
Nov 10 11:34:09 <tux2> ciao
Nov 10 11:34:12 <tux2> p|
Nov 10 11:35:47 <ertwroc> kulve: May it is problem with memory - it is java app. Is any way to do something with it?
Nov 10 11:37:07 <kulve> I don't know a thing about java, sorry.
Nov 10 11:37:16 <ertwroc> kulve: I runned it and was killed after more than 2 min
Nov 10 11:37:41 <kulve> ertwroc: check with e.g. "top"  if it's taking a lot of memory
Nov 10 11:37:46 <zerojay> Java does it's own garbage collection...
Nov 10 11:39:20 <zerojay> |R: Ouais, j'etait accepte pour un coupon. J'ai un ami au Etats-Unis qui va commander mon N810 et va l'envoyer a moi ici.
Nov 10 11:39:32 <p|> tux2: italian developer so ?
Nov 10 11:39:49 <tux2> yes
Nov 10 11:39:56 <tux2> si
Nov 10 11:41:04 <p|> bene
Nov 10 11:42:40 <ertwroc> I runned it with top - cacao (java vm) took 45% of memory and for some time top stop refreshing
Nov 10 11:44:30 <tux2> ora però voglio impegnarmi a scrivere la versione italiana della wiki page
Nov 10 11:44:51 <tux2> dato che ci sono quelle in francese spagnola etc..
Nov 10 11:45:10 <kulve> ertwroc: hmm.. it would be more usefull to know how much there was free memory (not in cache). And actually I think "dmesg" should list all OOM-killed apps
Nov 10 11:45:20 <kulve> tux2: let's keep this english-only channel..
Nov 10 11:45:37 <onion> hmm, git would nice to have in the SDK
Nov 10 11:45:41 <tux2> excuse me
Nov 10 11:45:50 <tux2> kulve
Nov 10 11:46:14 <p|> tux2: good idea :)
Nov 10 11:46:41 <kulve> onion: git version 1.5.2.4
Nov 10 11:46:47 <tux2> There is no documentation in Italian
Nov 10 11:46:56 <tux2> for the italian maemo user
Nov 10 11:47:34 <tux2> because I decided to expand the wiki page
Nov 10 11:47:36 <kaltsi> onion: the maemo3-tools devkit offers git
Nov 10 11:47:42 <onion> kulve: oh, ok.. great
Nov 10 11:48:44 <tux2> p|:I decided to expand the wiki page
Nov 10 11:48:55 <tux2> p|:you are a developer
Nov 10 11:49:21 <p|> tux2: unfortunately no :(
Nov 10 11:49:33 <p|> but i hope to learn ruby+gtk2+maemo :)
Nov 10 11:50:04 <tux2> p|:ah ok you are a maemo user
Nov 10 11:50:54 <ertwroc> free was less than 1500K and dmesg say that app was killed because "out of memory" was :|
Nov 10 11:51:42 <p|> yes tux2
Nov 10 11:51:47 <kulve> ertwroc: you try to reduce the memory used by your app, if it's possible. If not, then you have troubles..
Nov 10 11:51:51 <kulve> +can
Nov 10 11:52:07 <ertwroc> is possible to use patrition on mmc as swap?
Nov 10 11:52:19 <p|> tux2: even i've installed the OS2007 SDK and have ported an app :)
Nov 10 11:52:23 <onion> ertwroc: yes
Nov 10 11:52:43 <kulve> ertwroc: actually it's just a file, not a whole partition
Nov 10 11:52:59 <kulve> and I think it's recommended to have at least a bit of it always in linux..
Nov 10 11:53:13 <kulve> I have the maximum (128M) on the internal card
Nov 10 11:53:30 <p|> (a _VERY_ little paa, inadyn, a commandline dyndns client)
Nov 10 11:53:31 <ertwroc> kulwe: so how big is now swap?
Nov 10 11:53:44 <p|> s/paa/program/g
Nov 10 11:53:44 <infobot> p| meant: (a _VERY_ little program, inadyn, a commandline dyndns client)
Nov 10 11:55:01 <kulve> ertwroc: I didn't quite understand your question. By default there is no swap, but it can be enabled from the control-panel
Nov 10 11:55:02 <p|> infobot: lol
Nov 10 11:55:04 <infobot> lol is probably stands for Laughs Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead.
Nov 10 11:56:06 <ertwroc> kulve: so I don't have to do it by hand?
Nov 10 11:56:07 <tux2> p|:I'm a developer java but the support of java in maemo and nokia internet tablet is primitive
Nov 10 11:56:19 <kulve> ertwroc: no, it's a supported feature in it2007
Nov 10 11:57:09 <tux2> p|:I develop in c# and I study the python language
Nov 10 11:57:41 <ertwroc> kulve: thanks
Nov 10 11:57:48 <p|> tux2: i know a bit python and ruby
Nov 10 11:57:55 <p|> but not the GUI side...
Nov 10 11:58:11 <p|> nor the maemo
Nov 10 11:59:14 <p|> hope it isn't too much difficult :)
Nov 10 11:59:22 <tux2> p|:I hope in the future to be able to write Java applications for maemo
Nov 10 11:59:36 <p|> for now i'm playing with web server,php on my n800 :)
Nov 10 12:00:00 <tux2> p|:apache :-)
Nov 10 12:00:10 <p|> tux2: take a look here :www.zamprogno.it and n800.gotdns.org/dokuwiki/index.php
Nov 10 12:00:18 <p|> tux2: no, nginx
Nov 10 12:00:53 <p|> (warning i'm temporary using a gprs connection so be patient :)
Nov 10 12:01:20 <tux2> p|:ok
Nov 10 12:02:10 <tux2> p|:dokuwiki on your n800
Nov 10 12:02:56 <p|> yes
Nov 10 12:03:04 <p|> and also tiddlywiki
Nov 10 12:03:11 <p|> (on first link)
Nov 10 12:04:07 <tux2> the first link don't
Nov 10 12:04:37 <tux2> is Wrong
Nov 10 12:04:52 <czr> can you please type longer sentences.
Nov 10 12:05:02 <tux2> excuse
Nov 10 12:05:06 <tux2> me
Nov 10 12:05:32 <p|> tux2: first link have about 300k to download
Nov 10 12:05:42 <p|> it is a single html+javascript file
Nov 10 12:05:49 <tux2> p|: Now works
Nov 10 12:05:51 <p|> at 2-3k/sec..
Nov 10 12:06:09 <p|> hope you do not becom too old to see it ;-)
Nov 10 12:06:19 <p|> s/becom/become/g
Nov 10 12:06:20 <infobot> p| meant: hope you do not become too old to see it ;-)
Nov 10 12:07:27 <p|> i need the bnep.ko kernel module to use an H3G HSDPA connection...
Nov 10 12:07:36 <p|> but for now no luck :(
Nov 10 12:08:22 <tux2> p|:beautiful and very fast
Nov 10 12:08:58 <tux2> I did not know tiddlywiki
Nov 10 12:09:50 <p|> also i have found it this days
Nov 10 12:10:05 <p|> is a self-contained html file
Nov 10 12:10:48 <tux2> p|Now you have to leave .. I go to cook! We students must go it alone
Nov 10 12:11:06 <p|> ok
Nov 10 12:11:07 <tux2> bye bye
Nov 10 12:11:13 <tux2> p|
Nov 10 12:11:16 <p|> cu !
Nov 10 12:11:40 <tux2> It has been a pleasure to speak with you soon
Nov 10 12:11:54 <tux2> bye bye maemo Irc Planet
Nov 10 12:17:14 * alterego wonders what happened to libreadline.
Nov 10 12:17:32 <czr> hey alterego
Nov 10 12:17:45 <alterego> Good afternoon :)
Nov 10 12:18:29 <alterego> Did you apply to the device program czr ?
Nov 10 12:18:36 <czr> alterego, nope.
Nov 10 12:19:12 <alterego> Plan on getting an N810?
Nov 10 12:19:24 <czr> don't know. need to test one first.
Nov 10 12:19:48 <czr> and it kind of depends on one job application that has been re-activated. if I get the job, then no. if I won't, then probably.
Nov 10 12:19:53 <alterego> I got accepted yesterday. Pretty chuffed :)
Nov 10 12:20:02 <czr> yay :-). how much is the discount?
Nov 10 12:20:19 <alterego> 99EUR when it's released
Nov 10 12:20:27 <czr> ah. so the same as last time.
Nov 10 12:20:29 <alterego> So ~70 GBP I'd imagine.
Nov 10 12:21:19 <alterego> Do you know where libreadline went? :)
Nov 10 12:21:27 <alterego> I shouldn't have to compile it myself ..
Nov 10 12:21:40 <czr> maybe it was dropped because it is GPL. /me shrugs
Nov 10 12:21:52 <czr> honestly I have no idea :-) ask on ml?
Nov 10 12:22:31 <alterego> Well, it's not really important.
Nov 10 12:22:54 <alterego> Just means the console interactive ruby shell won't have those features.
Nov 10 12:23:07 <czr> I'd imagine python to have the same issue though.
Nov 10 12:23:14 <czr> you should probably ask on the ml though.
Nov 10 12:23:21 <alterego> Okay, will do.
Nov 10 12:23:33 <czr> maybe it was supposed to be included, but.. someone forgot :-)
Nov 10 12:23:58 <p|> someone can send to me the module bnep.ko of pre-38.2 OS2007 version ?
Nov 10 12:23:58 <alterego> Well, the library is installed. Just no dev package.
Nov 10 12:24:04 <alterego> Or dbg package.
Nov 10 12:24:09 <kaltsi> the sources are there.. you can compile that
Nov 10 12:24:43 <czr> kaltsi, but it doesn't make sense to provide a library without the -dev and -dbg versions. does it?
Nov 10 12:24:53 <alterego> Yeah,
Nov 10 12:25:03 <alterego> Should I still request those packages on the mailing list?
Nov 10 12:25:17 <kaltsi> czr well yes and no :)
Nov 10 12:25:28 * czr shrugs
Nov 10 12:26:29 <kaltsi> the logic goes somehow like this: libreadline is not really a part of maemo platform.. it's something that you might want to use in your own program and then you can make it available for yourself
Nov 10 12:27:01 <alterego> Okay
Nov 10 12:27:12 <czr> right. why is it supplied to begin with then?
Nov 10 12:27:22 <czr> the so version I mean.
Nov 10 12:27:22 <alterego> So it's in a similar vein to having to install the ncurses dev package?
Nov 10 12:27:33 <kaltsi> it's there because the runtime lib is needed by some development tool, in this case gdb
Nov 10 12:28:00 <alterego> Will it be in OS2008?
Nov 10 12:28:21 <kaltsi> alterego, sorry what?
Nov 10 12:28:26 <czr> ok. so SDK is: packages part of maemo + packages not part of maemo, but required to do useful stuff in SDK
Nov 10 12:28:39 <kaltsi> czr something lke that yes :)
Nov 10 12:28:56 <alterego> The ncurses-dev package isn't installed by default in the SDK. You have to apt-get it.
Nov 10 12:29:16 <kaltsi> one of the future goals is to make the SDK compilable from sources and that means providing all the dev packages too, but that's not yet in place for chinook
Nov 10 12:29:17 <czr> kaltsi, no wonder there is confusion though :-)
Nov 10 12:29:28 <czr> yeah, read smt about that too.
Nov 10 12:29:30 <alterego> If libreadline isn't installed in the root image then there's no point in me persuing this :)
Nov 10 12:29:41 <czr> alterego, why would it be installed on the image?
Nov 10 12:29:51 <alterego> It was in 2007
Nov 10 12:29:55 <kaltsi> alterego those -dev pacakges should never be needed in the device
Nov 10 12:29:59 <czr> ah. ignore me then :-)
Nov 10 12:30:07 <alterego> Not the dev package. The so package.
Nov 10 12:30:15 <alterego> I just need the dev package to compile against.
Nov 10 12:30:47 <kaltsi> yep yep.. well the device does not have anything installed that's not used by the applications that are there when it comes from the production line
Nov 10 12:31:02 <kaltsi> (or shouldn't) :)
Nov 10 12:31:07 <alterego> Heh
Nov 10 12:31:25 <alterego> I guess I'll have to wait and see until the release to see if it has readline ..
Nov 10 12:31:37 <czr> what, not even random GNOME project GConf entries that are never used? how disappointing ;-)
Nov 10 12:31:47 <kaltsi> I'll get me coat
Nov 10 12:31:47 <alterego> Heh
Nov 10 12:32:06 <alterego> Does your coat have readline?
Nov 10 12:32:11 <kaltsi> haha
Nov 10 12:32:20 * czr offers a little used dracula-cape, which has readline support.
Nov 10 12:32:26 <alterego> Hah :D
Nov 10 12:32:30 <czr> the dev package is in the left inner pocket.
Nov 10 12:32:34 <alterego> Nice,.
Nov 10 12:32:55 <alterego> Thinking about it.
Nov 10 12:32:56 <kaltsi> alterego about the readline, if your software needs it, then make the deb package depend on it and then it will be installed at the same time someone installs your pkg.. or am I missing some logic here?
Nov 10 12:33:10 <alterego> kaltsi, I was about to say exactly that :)
Nov 10 12:33:30 <alterego> Of course the package is in the repository. ^_^
Nov 10 12:33:42 <alterego> So the device will at least be able to obtain it.
Nov 10 12:33:49 <kaltsi> yep
Nov 10 12:38:35 <alterego> Think I'll start on Ruby 1.9 today
Nov 10 12:40:49 <alterego> Ah, it has iconv
Nov 10 12:57:43 <alterego> czr, have you looked into compiling kernel modules in the maemo4 SDK?
Nov 10 12:58:11 <czr> alterego, not yet I haven't.
Nov 10 12:58:17 <czr> I don't have a device to test on anyway.
Nov 10 12:58:22 <alterego> Right
Nov 10 12:59:34 <zerojay> Anyone here have experience with installing phpbb?
Nov 10 13:07:11 <unit42> phpBB3, yep
Nov 10 13:08:13 <zerojay> unit42: I went through the install, and right before I'm supposed to login as admin for the first time, I get nothing but a blank page.
Nov 10 13:08:19 <zerojay> Apache spits out no errors.
Nov 10 13:08:37 <zerojay> Any ideas?
Nov 10 13:09:05 <unit42> Hmm.
Nov 10 13:09:21 <unit42> Also a version 3?
Nov 10 13:09:41 <zerojay> It was 3, yeah.
Nov 10 13:10:13 <kaltsi> is your apache configured to understand php?
Nov 10 13:10:18 <zerojay> Yes.
Nov 10 13:10:28 <unit42> I've had no problems... strange. Install process worked without errors?
Nov 10 13:10:29 <zerojay> If it wasn't, the install wouldn't work at all. :)
Nov 10 13:10:37 <zerojay> Yep.
Nov 10 13:10:39 <zerojay> Without error.
Nov 10 13:10:46 <zerojay> Oh well.
Nov 10 13:10:51 <zerojay> I'll try phpbb2.
Nov 10 13:10:54 <unit42> Tried more than once?
Nov 10 13:11:16 <unit42> Which RC?
Nov 10 13:11:22 <zerojay> Yes, several times.
Nov 10 13:11:24 <zerojay> RC 7.
Nov 10 13:11:25 <unit42> I'm one before the current...
Nov 10 13:12:05 <unit42> RC 5 was that.
Nov 10 13:12:18 <unit42> May you try that one too.
Nov 10 13:12:20 <zerojay> And phpbb2 says "php doesn't support the database you selected", but it does.
Nov 10 13:12:22 <zerojay> wtf.
Nov 10 13:12:51 <unit42> looks b0rked...
Nov 10 13:13:00 <unit42> Wanna try RC5?
Nov 10 13:13:10 <zerojay> Well, that's kind of a problem considering this is a brand new virtual server.
Nov 10 13:15:04 <unit42> Why is that a problem? RC too old?
Nov 10 13:15:51 <zerojay> It's a problem because if something's b0rked before I've even done anything to it, then it means the server wasn't set up properly.
Nov 10 13:16:26 <unit42> Oh. Ok.
Nov 10 13:17:01 <unit42> Did you checked the known bugs of phpBB3?
Nov 10 13:17:06 <zerojay> Yes.
Nov 10 13:17:18 <zerojay> I used to work QA.
Nov 10 13:17:41 <unit42> Ok. So you're found a new one as it seems...
Nov 10 13:17:49 <unit42> s/re/ve/
Nov 10 13:17:50 <infobot> unit42 meant: Ok. So you've found a new one as it seems...
Nov 10 13:18:06 <Cord> yuk!
Nov 10 13:19:05 <unit42> Which php version do you use? Which mysql?
Nov 10 13:19:13 <unit42> or what database
Nov 10 13:20:40 <unit42> I've a MySQL 5.0.32 and a php 4.4.4 ...
Nov 10 13:21:00 <unit42> ...and a apache 2.2.3.
Nov 10 13:22:42 <zerojay> MySQL 5.0.22, Apache 2.2.3, php 5.1.6
Nov 10 13:27:38 <unit42> Hmm. So the real difference is php 5...
Nov 10 13:30:40 <unit42> Did you install it directly on the virtual server via shell (unpacking)?
Nov 10 13:31:01 <zerojay> It was installed by the hosting provider.
Nov 10 13:31:40 <unit42> Ok. Then he should know what does... oehm... dunno.
Nov 10 13:33:01 <unit42> I've found a post where the config.php had a wrong database config.
Nov 10 13:33:39 <unit42> Do you have direct access to the files? Or just to the admin frontend?
Nov 10 13:33:46 <zerojay> Direct.
Nov 10 13:34:00 <unit42> You should check the username password of the mysql in the config.
Nov 10 13:34:09 <zerojay> It's correct.
Nov 10 13:34:19 <unit42> Then I've no clue...
Nov 10 13:34:32 <zerojay> Thanks anyways.
Nov 10 13:35:44 * alterego contemplates making a documentation browser.
Nov 10 13:52:22 <zerojay> Yes, but would anyone ever read it?
Nov 10 13:52:24 <zerojay> :)
Nov 10 13:57:02 <alterego> Most of my software is developed for me.
Nov 10 13:57:06 <alterego> So I'd use it ;)
Nov 10 13:57:21 <alterego> For instance, ruby-maemo was developed for me.
Nov 10 14:05:10 <czr> self-building documentation browser
Nov 10 14:05:21 <czr> i.e., you use the browser to view the documentation for the documentation browser
Nov 10 14:28:02 <xadap> hi :)
Nov 10 14:28:09 <xadap> I got my n770 :D
Nov 10 14:28:56 <xadap> to get the last version of the operating system, shall I follow these instructions? http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/
Nov 10 14:29:49 <alterego> Check to see if the latest version is already installed first.
Nov 10 14:30:23 <xadap> i don't think it's already installed because I bought it second-hand
Nov 10 14:30:32 <xadap> but anyway, how do I do that?
Nov 10 14:30:54 <xadap> i've got fakeroot and the terminal installed
Nov 10 14:31:14 <alterego> Buying it second hand makes it more likely to have the lates tversion :P
Nov 10 14:31:54 <xadap> my seller didn't love geek and useful things, but you're right, I should check it before :p
Nov 10 14:32:17 <xadap> "uname -a" in the terminal, maybe?
Nov 10 14:32:32 <alterego> No.
Nov 10 14:32:56 <alterego> Control Panel -> About Product
Nov 10 14:33:35 <xadap> that should be added at the wiki
Nov 10 14:33:38 <xadap> it isn't there
Nov 10 14:33:41 <xadap> thanks :)
Nov 10 14:33:54 <alterego> Well, maybe you should add it :P
Nov 10 14:34:28 <xadap> let me finish flashing the nokia and I'll find out how to do it ;)
Nov 10 14:34:35 <xadap> 2006 edition
Nov 10 14:35:08 <alterego> Well, 2006 is the latest OS release for the 770
Nov 10 14:35:15 <alterego> (official release)
Nov 10 14:35:45 <xadap> doesn't the 2007OS work?
Nov 10 14:36:01 <alterego> You need a special OS2007 HE for the 770
Nov 10 14:36:31 <alterego> It's not supported and you need to install seatbelt to stop it crashing all the time.
Nov 10 14:37:36 <xadap> the special version crashes too?
Nov 10 14:38:52 <alterego> It crashes because the 770 doesn't really have enough memory to run it.
Nov 10 14:39:12 <alterego> It's not really that big an issue though. seatbelt appearantly fixes the problem well
Nov 10 14:39:21 <xadap> can't I use virtual memory?
Nov 10 14:39:33 <alterego> Yes
Nov 10 14:40:20 <xadap> then if I install OS2007 and seatbelt, and then I extend the virtual memory, it should work more or less properly, right?
Nov 10 14:40:59 <alterego> It should work properly without virtual memory and OS2007 + seatbelt/
Nov 10 14:41:08 <xadap> then I'm installing it :p
Nov 10 14:41:22 <alterego> Flashing the device is easy and doesn't take much time. If you're unhappy with it you can always revert back.
Nov 10 14:41:50 <xadap> that's good news
Nov 10 14:42:20 <kaltsi> heh I thought that seatbelt was a joke, but that's a real project :)
Nov 10 14:42:55 <xadap> so did I lol
Nov 10 14:43:55 <xadap> alter ego, I figure you meant the OS2007 Hacker Edition
Nov 10 14:43:58 <xadap> amb I wrong?
Nov 10 14:44:10 <alterego> Yes
Nov 10 14:44:14 <alterego> OS2007 HE
Nov 10 14:44:33 <xadap> that thing?
Nov 10 14:44:33 <xadap> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/os2007on770
Nov 10 14:45:08 <alterego> I guess so.
Nov 10 14:51:06 <alterego> xadap, so, what do you plan on doing with your new tablet?
Nov 10 14:52:39 <xadap> about flashing or about general usage?
Nov 10 14:52:52 <alterego> General usage
Nov 10 14:53:13 <alterego> Are you a programmer? Do you plan on writing softwrae?
Nov 10 14:53:21 <alterego> s/softwrae/software
Nov 10 14:53:23 <zerojay> I know one thing.. I'm going to be doing a lot more chatting on it.
Nov 10 14:53:36 <xadap> ahaha, i'm studying computer sciences
Nov 10 14:53:51 <xadap> I can code a little with C++ and PHP, besides html and css
Nov 10 14:54:03 <xadap> so in some months I think I could program myself something for the nokia
Nov 10 14:54:05 <alterego> zerojay, do you mean with the N810? ;)
Nov 10 14:54:11 <zerojay> What was the bug with power save on routers?
Nov 10 14:54:13 <zerojay> Yeah.
Nov 10 14:54:20 <alterego> xadap, you should check out ruby-maemo. It's awesome.
Nov 10 14:54:34 <alterego> zerojay, did you get accepted?
Nov 10 14:54:40 <zerojay> Nevermind, found it.
Nov 10 14:54:44 <zerojay> alterego: Yep.
Nov 10 14:54:45 <xadap> but i bought it mainly to read the news in the morning and to translate some textes i work on while i'm on the metro
Nov 10 14:54:47 <alterego> Me too :)
Nov 10 14:54:51 <xadap> i'll do it, alterego :)
Nov 10 14:54:53 <zerojay> Great news. :)
Nov 10 14:55:06 <Mikho> why are ruby users always so enthustiastic about it?
Nov 10 14:55:23 <alterego> Mikho, try it and see :P
Nov 10 14:55:41 <Mikho> tried it, saw but was unimpressed
Nov 10 14:55:51 <alterego> How long did you try it for?
Nov 10 14:56:08 <Mikho> first of all, it took something like 10 seconds to get my app starte3d
Nov 10 14:56:23 <Mikho> then, it would fail loading maybe 40-50% of the time
Nov 10 14:56:23 <zerojay> Ruby's an interpretive language.
Nov 10 14:56:39 <alterego> Mikho, Ruby or ruby-maemo?
Nov 10 14:57:19 <Mikho> tried because my friend hyped it
Nov 10 14:57:25 <Mikho> ruby on rails
Nov 10 14:57:41 <zerojay> Ruby on rails has nothing to do with this.
Nov 10 14:57:43 <xadap> i've been told ruby on rails is a good tool for webdesign
Nov 10 14:57:59 <alterego> Oh, you're complaining about ruby because of a web development framework?
Nov 10 14:58:12 <xadap> i'm not complaining about ruby :p
Nov 10 14:58:13 <Mikho> it's just hard to accept everything's perfect about ruby
Nov 10 14:58:14 <alterego> xadap, it is. I quite enjoy using it.
Nov 10 14:58:33 <alterego> Who said it was perfect? They're obviously lying ;)
Nov 10 14:58:37 <Mikho> yes
Nov 10 14:58:38 <xadap> too many people report good news from ruby, it may be time to check it out for me haha
Nov 10 14:59:12 <Mikho> well, it's true I might have lacked the skills to use it effectively
Nov 10 14:59:36 <Mikho> but it wasn't exactly *fun* and *easy*
Nov 10 14:59:47 <alterego> Well, my first endeavour into Ruby a year ago wasn't rails.
Nov 10 14:59:48 <Mikho> alright at most
Nov 10 15:00:00 <alterego> I learned the language. I've only really been using rails for about 5 months.
Nov 10 15:00:25 <alterego> It is when you grasp the principles. Which is why it's good to have an understanding of the language.
Nov 10 15:00:38 <alterego> xadap, http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/ruby-maemo/Examples/basic_application.rb.txt
Nov 10 15:00:41 <Mikho> well, I didn't get to use ruby that much. I was mostly struggling with the ruby on rails web content
Nov 10 15:00:46 <alterego> That's a hello world maemo application in Ruby.
Nov 10 15:01:38 <Mikho> I might have continued using it if the computers at my university had ruby installed
Nov 10 15:02:24 <alterego> Meh
Nov 10 15:02:33 <xadap> alterego, desktop aplication or ruby on rails for the web?
Nov 10 15:02:43 <alterego> xadap, desktop. I said maemo.
Nov 10 15:02:50 <alterego> It's for the tablet.
Nov 10 15:03:04 <alterego> It's a hello world application that runs on the Nokia tablets ..
Nov 10 15:03:10 <xadap> i haven't worked with gtk yet
Nov 10 15:03:22 <xadap> only command line :p
Nov 10 15:03:52 <alterego> ruby -e "puts 'Hello, world!'"
Nov 10 15:03:56 <alterego> ;)
Nov 10 15:03:58 <xadap> :)
Nov 10 15:04:35 <xadap> nokia os2007HE downloaded
Nov 10 15:04:42 <xadap> now i suppose I need a flasher, is it?
Nov 10 15:04:43 <alterego> Groovy.
Nov 10 15:04:49 <alterego> Yes,
Nov 10 15:04:50 <xadap> i've seen 2 versions, v2 and v3
Nov 10 15:04:59 <alterego> You'll probably want the latest.
Nov 10 15:06:44 <xadap> the wiki says:
Nov 10 15:06:45 <xadap>   ./flasher-2.0 -F SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R
Nov 10 15:07:08 <xadap> does it change anything else but the ./flasher-3.0 part in the string?
Nov 10 15:08:52 <b0unc3> hi
Nov 10 15:09:07 <xadap> hi :)
Nov 10 15:12:01 <alterego> xadap, nope.
Nov 10 15:13:37 <xadap> flashing :)
Nov 10 15:20:16 <xadap> hoho that's amazing!
Nov 10 15:20:58 <alterego> :)
Nov 10 15:21:04 <alterego> It is quite fun flashing the devices.
Nov 10 15:21:07 <L0cutus> mmm
Nov 10 15:21:20 <L0cutus> i'm unable to activate the bluetooth :-\
Nov 10 15:21:46 <alterego> L0cutus, from where? The control panel?
Nov 10 15:21:55 <L0cutus> i've tryed to activate it from control panel without success
Nov 10 15:22:07 <alterego> Are you in flight mode?
Nov 10 15:22:16 <L0cutus> no, booted fromm mmc
Nov 10 15:22:21 <alterego> Hmmm.
Nov 10 15:22:30 <L0cutus> wifi is on and connected
Nov 10 15:22:32 <alterego> have you tried hciconfig?
Nov 10 15:22:35 <L0cutus> only bt is 'dead'
Nov 10 15:22:44 <L0cutus> wait i'll try
Nov 10 15:23:03 <alterego> I don't bother using the control panel to enable bluetooth.
Nov 10 15:23:16 <alterego> I have a little command in my mem/cpu graph applet.
Nov 10 15:24:10 <L0cutus> also mine
Nov 10 15:24:20 <L0cutus> also hciconfig doesn't work
Nov 10 15:24:33 <alterego> Oh no.
Nov 10 15:24:33 <L0cutus> "sudo hciconfig hci0 up"
Nov 10 15:24:41 <alterego> That's not good :/
Nov 10 15:24:43 <L0cutus> it stay there
Nov 10 15:24:57 <L0cutus> also a friend of mine yesterday had that problem
Nov 10 15:25:05 <alterego> Any dmesg errors>
Nov 10 15:25:10 <L0cutus> not for now
Nov 10 15:25:20 <L0cutus> it is freezed on cmdline
Nov 10 15:25:46 <alterego> If I were to guess I'd say it's to do with the firmware injection.
Nov 10 15:26:01 <L0cutus> mmm
Nov 10 15:26:06 <alterego> In my past experience that has generally been the source of all problems ;)
Nov 10 15:26:21 <alterego> Maybe copy the firmware from a working rootfs to your MMC rootfs.
Nov 10 15:26:28 <L0cutus> i must reboot on classic flash ?
Nov 10 15:26:42 <alterego> No, you should be able to do it from your current boot.
Nov 10 15:27:35 <L0cutus> i'm not very 'pratical' on this thing :(
Nov 10 15:28:37 <alterego> Well, you're practical enough to get it to boot off of a memory card which isn't exactly a novice task ;)
Nov 10 15:28:51 <alterego> Even with the somewhat vague instructions on the wiki.
Nov 10 15:29:40 <L0cutus> there is a wiki that is pretty noob-proof :)
Nov 10 15:29:46 <L0cutus> (to boot from mmc)
Nov 10 15:30:14 <alterego> I've seen noobs try and fail.
Nov 10 15:30:25 <alterego> I remember having to improvise a few times whilst I was doing it too.
Nov 10 15:32:22 <L0cutus> good old internal flash boot :)
Nov 10 15:32:33 <L0cutus> bt is working
Nov 10 15:32:42 <L0cutus> so it is mmc boot problem
Nov 10 15:32:49 <alterego> Interesting.
Nov 10 15:33:02 * timelyx looks around
Nov 10 15:33:03 <alterego> Is this a 770 or 800 by-the-way?
Nov 10 15:33:10 <L0cutus> n800
Nov 10 15:33:18 <alterego> Thought as much.
Nov 10 15:33:49 <zoran> L0cutus, maybe init file looks at the wrong place
Nov 10 15:34:06 <L0cutus> i haven't touch anything
Nov 10 15:34:12 <L0cutus> it worked until 5min ago
Nov 10 15:34:16 <zoran> ah, you moved it to mmc
Nov 10 15:34:21 <L0cutus> after reboot, puff, no bt
Nov 10 15:34:46 <zoran> start it by the hand
Nov 10 15:35:11 <alterego> He tried that, doesn't work.
Nov 10 15:35:21 <L0cutus> it lockup hciconfig
Nov 10 15:36:12 <zoran> shutdown -h now ?
Nov 10 15:36:29 <zoran> it should put down all parts in order
Nov 10 15:36:32 <bedboi> hi there.
Nov 10 15:37:10 <L0cutus> zoran: i'll try to reboot now from mmc...
Nov 10 15:37:22 <zoran> k
Nov 10 15:37:24 <timelyx> _Monkey forget download
Nov 10 15:37:25 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot download
Nov 10 15:37:27 <timelyx> _Monkey download is <reply>
Nov 10 15:37:28 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Nov 10 15:39:25 <lopz> hola
Nov 10 15:39:28 <timelyx> alterego: you should have suggested the n810 to markust :!
Nov 10 15:39:37 <timelyx> it should be out by xmas :)
Nov 10 15:40:40 <alterego> timelyx, yeah. That should have occured to me.
Nov 10 15:40:52 <alterego> Though, the N810 is pretty expensive IMO
Nov 10 15:42:58 <timelyx> _Monkey forget yeah, wtf
Nov 10 15:42:58 <_Monkey> timelyx, I didn't have anything matching yeah, where
Nov 10 15:43:01 <timelyx> _Monkey yeah, wtf is <reply>
Nov 10 15:43:02 <_Monkey> timelyx: i don't know
Nov 10 15:43:38 <xadap> i'll leave in some minuts
Nov 10 15:43:43 <xadap> there's a hacklab in barcelona :)
Nov 10 15:43:52 <xadap> but before, alterego please
Nov 10 15:43:56 <xadap> what's that seatbealt thing?
Nov 10 15:44:01 <xadap> can i get it from the repositories?
Nov 10 15:44:13 <zerojay> Garage
Nov 10 15:44:13 <_Monkey> Garage is, like, https://garage.maemo.org or some where you may park your car
Nov 10 15:44:19 <alterego> :)
Nov 10 15:44:22 <alterego> Heh
Nov 10 15:44:23 <L0cutus> now bt is back working :-O
Nov 10 15:44:29 <alterego> L0cutus, congrats ;)
Nov 10 15:44:35 <zoran> _Monkey overgrows my intelligence
Nov 10 15:44:36 <_Monkey> zoran: huh?
Nov 10 15:44:38 <alterego> What was the fix?
Nov 10 15:44:41 <L0cutus> buahaa
Nov 10 15:44:56 <L0cutus> alterego: dunno
Nov 10 15:44:58 <L0cutus> :)
Nov 10 15:44:59 <alterego> Heh
Nov 10 15:45:05 <alterego> Just a reboot I guess.
Nov 10 15:45:05 <xadap> then I get the seatbealt from garage or it was realted to bt ? :p
Nov 10 15:45:20 <alterego> That's a point. It may have needed a cold start ..
Nov 10 15:45:20 <L0cutus> i've tryed shutdown -h now
Nov 10 15:45:27 <L0cutus> yep
Nov 10 15:45:43 <zoran> you lost some parts of puzzle
Nov 10 15:45:54 <zoran> so reboot made it from the start
Nov 10 15:45:55 <alterego> Probably because of the moved location of the firmware maybe ..
Nov 10 15:46:04 <alterego> Or some other resource.
Nov 10 15:46:35 <L0cutus> alterego: i'm not switched today to mmc boot
Nov 10 15:46:55 <L0cutus> it's a couple of days nw
Nov 10 15:46:57 <alterego> Sorry, I don't get you?
Nov 10 15:46:57 <L0cutus> now
Nov 10 15:46:57 <zerojay> |R: Oui, je suis la.
Nov 10 15:47:05 <alterego> Ah
Nov 10 15:47:40 <L0cutus> but i think uptime on nxxx are not similar to pc ones :D
Nov 10 15:48:10 <zoran> he-he
Nov 10 15:48:23 <zoran> fs is the strenght of unix
Nov 10 15:48:45 <alterego> Yeah, my tablet has been up longer than my server ^_^
Nov 10 15:49:04 <zoran> is there any sign of instability?
Nov 10 15:49:14 <alterego> Not really.
Nov 10 15:49:16 <L0cutus> i think next time i do a shutdown -h now and not a reboot...
Nov 10 15:49:25 <zoran> no diff
Nov 10 15:49:48 <alterego> Just turn it off and make sure it's not plugged in.
Nov 10 15:49:56 <L0cutus> this time it have do the diff :)
Nov 10 15:50:30 <L0cutus> sometimes it happens also on pc
Nov 10 15:50:58 <zoran> good friend of mine wants me to help to install freebsd on his flash drive
Nov 10 15:51:20 <zoran> I just cannot resist to say to him it has no point
Nov 10 15:51:37 <alterego> I was thinking of installing Linux on an SD card to allow my N800 to act as a boot device.
Nov 10 15:52:03 <zoran> interesting would be to have netbsd on device
Nov 10 15:52:16 <alterego> It'd be handy, can store restoration tools and stoof.
Nov 10 15:52:38 <zoran> nas
Nov 10 15:53:33 * alterego is in your compootor infectin' yer linuz.
Nov 10 15:53:50 <zoran> :)
Nov 10 15:53:56 <alterego> I think I might still be drunk.
Nov 10 15:54:11 <zoran> imagine no stack execution
Nov 10 15:54:38 <alterego> I'd be interested in installing gnome on the device.
Nov 10 15:54:55 <alterego> Like that guy that got KDE on it.
Nov 10 15:55:04 <zoran> channel would curse you
Nov 10 15:55:15 <alterego> :)
Nov 10 15:55:38 <alterego> Well, I suppose I just want gnome terminal ;)
Nov 10 15:55:47 <zoran> I thought twice and really found true that matchbox was good for this issue
Nov 10 15:56:00 <xadap> now that i've installed OS2007HE, how do I know what's the name of my OS?
Nov 10 15:56:03 <xadap> i used to have "mistral"
Nov 10 15:56:09 <alterego> bora
Nov 10 15:56:14 <alterego> xadap, it's bora
Nov 10 15:56:14 <xadap> thank you a lot!
Nov 10 15:56:22 <xadap> i'm leaving now
Nov 10 15:56:28 <alterego> Good bye.
Nov 10 15:56:30 <alterego> Have fun.
Nov 10 15:56:33 <alterego> Come back soon.
Nov 10 15:56:40 * alterego gives xadap a smoochkiss.
Nov 10 15:56:44 <xadap> if there's someone else from barcelona, in c/verdi 28 there's a talk about gnu projects or something like that :)
Nov 10 15:56:47 <zoran> alterego, is there any change on maemo.org server last 10 days?
Nov 10 15:56:47 <xadap> i will :)
Nov 10 15:57:03 <alterego> zoran, what kind of change?
Nov 10 15:57:04 <xadap> it's been really cool flashing so fast with your help :)
Nov 10 15:57:08 <xadap> see you soon ;)(
Nov 10 15:57:13 <zoran> I cannot get files from that
Nov 10 15:57:35 <zoran> wrror message is "authorization request failure"
Nov 10 15:57:36 <alterego> Which files? application downloads?
Nov 10 15:57:41 <zoran> yep
Nov 10 15:57:48 <Andy80> hi
Nov 10 15:57:51 <zoran> and app manager update
Nov 10 15:57:53 <alterego> It's been buggy for ages. Breaks occasionally.
Nov 10 15:58:01 <zoran> now it is over for me
Nov 10 15:58:02 <alterego> Try again in an hour or so.
Nov 10 15:58:10 <zoran> no, not for 10 days
Nov 10 15:58:21 <zoran> and also from another box from another provider
Nov 10 15:58:34 <zoran> but works manualy from remote box
Nov 10 15:58:36 <alterego> I think they do it intentionally to make us all have breaks ;)
Nov 10 15:58:41 <alterego> Odd.
Nov 10 15:58:46 * alterego checks.
Nov 10 15:58:48 <zoran> it broke my device
Nov 10 15:59:18 <zoran> last sentence was wrong in deed
Nov 10 15:59:28 <zoran> jsut broke the nature of it
Nov 10 16:05:12 <Andy80> could someone explain me how is the N810 expandible? I don't understand this: Up to 2GB internal memory - Support for compatible miniSD and microSD memory cards, Supports cards up to 8GB. (SD cards over 2GB must be SDHC compatible.)
Nov 10 16:05:28 <zerojay> It's all right there.
Nov 10 16:05:41 <Andy80> does it mean that I can install, for example a 2Gb card or a 8Gb?
Nov 10 16:05:47 <zerojay> Both.
Nov 10 16:05:52 <Andy80> or does it have two expansion slot?
Nov 10 16:05:56 <zerojay> No.
Nov 10 16:05:57 <zoran> 1
Nov 10 16:05:59 <zerojay> It has only one slot.
Nov 10 16:06:11 <zerojay> The other one is taken  up by a permanent 2GB internal.
Nov 10 16:06:12 <Andy80> ah ok :)
Nov 10 16:06:13 <zerojay> Used for maps.
Nov 10 16:06:42 <alterego> Andy80, the "Up to 2G internal" means that you have up to 2G internal storage for files. Which the system uses as well. Otherwise it supports a single Mini or Micro SD card which can be up to 8G
Nov 10 16:07:14 * alterego checks prices of Mini/Micro SD cards.
Nov 10 16:07:19 <Andy80> ahhhh... so the memory is divided in this way: 128 DDR Ram, 256 Flash, 2 Gb internal memory... right? Plus... I've one slot to install another 2-8 Gb MiniSD... right?
Nov 10 16:07:33 <alterego> Andy80, yes, exactly like that :)
Nov 10 16:07:38 <Andy80> thanks :)
Nov 10 16:07:50 <Andy80> it's a very big thing!
Nov 10 16:07:53 <alterego> There is no lower limit on the mini/micro SD though
Nov 10 16:08:03 <alterego> You could install a 64M one for example
Nov 10 16:08:07 <alterego> (the only one I have)
Nov 10 16:08:14 <Andy80> at the moment I've a N770 and it had not an internal memory like that :)
Nov 10 16:08:31 <zoran> it's good
Nov 10 16:08:45 <alterego> Well, if storage is your main concern. The N800 is the best for that,
Nov 10 16:08:53 <Andy80> 2 Gb bundled it's a lot :)
Nov 10 16:08:57 <alterego> With two full size SD or MMC slots.
Nov 10 16:09:12 <alterego> Giving a maximum of 16G storage capacity.
Nov 10 16:09:23 <Andy80> no... for me N810 is more than enough :)
Nov 10 16:10:43 <Andy80> are all the 2 Gb taken by maps?
Nov 10 16:10:53 <alterego> No
Nov 10 16:11:20 <alterego> Depends how many maps/size you install.
Nov 10 16:11:23 <Andy80> is it possible to install only the maps you need, I suppose... Italy in my case
Nov 10 16:11:27 <Andy80> perfect
Nov 10 16:11:38 <alterego> I don't know for sure. But I'd imagine so.
Nov 10 16:11:56 <alterego> I'd also imagine that when you buy the device it comes with the maps for your region.
Nov 10 16:15:03 * Jaffa isn't in a particularly salesman-like mood; so any suggestions on http://www.bleb.org/misc/n800-ad.html (since I'm selling one of my N800s) would be appreciated.
Nov 10 16:15:46 <zoran> ask for $1000 and get an agreement at $500
Nov 10 16:16:18 <L0cutus> how about 2SD in RAID1 ? ;)
Nov 10 16:17:57 <alterego> RAID 1 and solid state memory devices wont make a difference.
Nov 10 16:18:12 <Andy80> :D
Nov 10 16:18:29 <alterego> Unless I'm getting confused with RAID 0 ..
Nov 10 16:18:46 <zoran> since mmc is seen as da0, it is free to say it is scsi device
Nov 10 16:18:46 <alterego> Hmm .. YEs I think I am.
Nov 10 16:20:55 <Andy80> L0cutus: maybe you are talking about a "stripe" use, not a "mirror", is it right?
Nov 10 16:21:22 <L0cutus> raid0 ? :)
Nov 10 16:21:32 <Andy80> mmm.... no
Nov 10 16:21:45 <zoran> hm, stripe on mmc
Nov 10 16:21:59 <Andy80> I did think you wanted to have a single mount point for two SD :)
Nov 10 16:22:09 <Andy80> with the N800 for example
Nov 10 16:23:51 <alterego> My dad's fishing for my N800 when I get the N810 :/
Nov 10 16:24:08 <alterego> I think he expects me to just give it to him.
Nov 10 16:24:11 <zerojay> I know three people at work trying to do the same.
Nov 10 16:24:26 <alterego> I lurv my N800 though :(
Nov 10 16:24:48 <alterego> Spent good money on it too ..
Nov 10 16:24:48 <zerojay> Me too. I'm supposed to sell mine so that the N810 is essentially free.
Nov 10 16:24:52 <zerojay> But I don't really want to.
Nov 10 16:25:16 <alterego> Meh, you should make a profit.
Nov 10 16:25:36 <alterego> N800 is worth more than 99 EUR ;)
Nov 10 16:27:11 <Andy80> I'm thinking if I should sell or not my N770...
Nov 10 16:27:24 <Andy80> I could get no more than 100€ I think...
Nov 10 16:27:43 <alterego> Personally I'd like them all.
Nov 10 16:27:48 <alterego> Have a collection ^_^
Nov 10 16:27:50 <Andy80> ehehe
Nov 10 16:28:02 <alterego> Nokia internet tablets. Gotta catch 'em all.
Nov 10 16:28:07 <alterego> Nokiman.
Nov 10 16:28:12 <Andy80> well... using N770 was more than a frustration!
Nov 10 16:28:13 <alterego> Nokimon even ..
Nov 10 16:28:24 <zerojay> The tablets are pretty much the only things we don't have at work from Nokia.
Nov 10 16:28:29 <Andy80> too slow and browsing was the most instable thing to do :P
Nov 10 16:28:38 <zerojay> Maybe a good 200 phones or so.
Nov 10 16:28:47 <alterego> Send me one!
Nov 10 16:28:52 * alterego needs a new phone.
Nov 10 16:28:55 <zerojay> Hah.
Nov 10 16:29:04 <zerojay> We need them for testing purposes. :)
Nov 10 16:29:08 <alterego> Pfft.
Nov 10 16:29:12 <Andy80> about phone, I feel good with my N73 :)
Nov 10 16:29:20 <alterego> I'm sure you wouldn't miss one ;P
Nov 10 16:29:29 <zerojay> I could send you the 3650. Pretty sure no one would miss that. ;P
Nov 10 16:29:29 <alterego> I have an old POS
Nov 10 16:29:36 <Andy80> I got it for only 149€ from 3 Italy
Nov 10 16:29:39 <alterego> Ooo, old school.
Nov 10 16:29:53 <zerojay> We don't support it anymore.
Nov 10 16:30:04 <zerojay> Forget about running Java apps on it.
Nov 10 16:30:07 <alterego> I wasn't so in to the round keypad ..
Nov 10 16:30:14 <alterego> Yeah, I know. The MIDP version is well low.
Nov 10 16:30:23 <alterego> i used to do a bit of coding on that Series 60 version
Nov 10 16:30:25 <zerojay> The JVM does zero garbage collection.
Nov 10 16:30:29 <zerojay> Literally, zero.
Nov 10 16:30:31 <alterego> Serious?
Nov 10 16:30:33 <zerojay> Yes.
Nov 10 16:30:35 <alterego> Hah.
Nov 10 16:30:37 <alterego> Didn't know that.
Nov 10 16:30:53 <zerojay> So our games run for about 5 minutes or so.
Nov 10 16:30:55 <Andy80> java.... what a good thing to talk about ;) why MIDP has not be implemented for Nokia tablets?
Nov 10 16:30:58 <zerojay> Then you see the background disappear.
Nov 10 16:31:08 <zerojay> And then the characters, piece by piece.
Nov 10 16:31:11 <zerojay> And then it crashes.
Nov 10 16:31:21 <Andy80> I know we can have more powerfull languages (Python for exmple) but it's a missing thing for sure...
Nov 10 16:31:24 <zerojay> 7650, same JVM.
Nov 10 16:32:01 <alterego> Yeah, the 7650 and 3650 were almost identical.
Nov 10 16:32:06 <zerojay> Yep.
Nov 10 16:32:11 <alterego> .1 difference ^_^
Nov 10 16:32:22 <Andy80> I had a 7650 :)
Nov 10 16:32:23 <zerojay> Got in a few prereleases.. LG CU915.
Nov 10 16:32:44 <zerojay> Basically the same as the CU920.. touch screen, etc..
Nov 10 16:32:47 <alterego> I think I will give my dad the N800
Nov 10 16:32:48 <zerojay> At least for my purposes.
Nov 10 16:33:04 <alterego> On the condition that if I brick or screw my N810 I get it back ^_^
Nov 10 16:33:21 <alterego> Basically, he wants to sell his 770 to a friend of his.
Nov 10 16:33:59 <zerojay> Jaffa: Anything new going on with mediaserv?
Nov 10 16:34:33 <alterego> And he thought that as I was getting an N810 from the device program. He'd pinch my N800 ..
Nov 10 16:35:44 <zoran> nice thing would bi microdrive in future nxxx
Nov 10 16:36:19 <zoran> that way nxxx culd be treated as real box
Nov 10 16:36:20 <alterego> I'm gonna buy a small full SD/MMC reader and see if I can get it to work un powered with the N810
Nov 10 16:36:24 <Andy80> a nicer one would be wimax support... but it would be useless at least here in italy :(
Nov 10 16:36:24 * zerojay looks at about 50 episodes of Law & Order sitting in his download folder and feels lazy about organizing them properly.
Nov 10 16:36:28 <alterego> That's sort out my memory card issues.
Nov 10 16:36:39 <Andy80> we'll have an half wimax :(
Nov 10 16:36:49 <zerojay> Full wimax here in Canada.
Nov 10 16:36:55 <zoran> Andy80, I read about new standard, that would replace it
Nov 10 16:36:59 <Andy80> I mean... no "client mode", but only "bridge mode"
Nov 10 16:37:23 <Andy80> for example to connect mountains with cities ecc.... and port ADSL in places where it's not present... that's all :(
Nov 10 16:37:33 <Andy80> zerojay: lucky you :)
Nov 10 16:37:58 <Andy80> zoran: already operative in canada?
Nov 10 16:38:29 <alterego> I can only find 4G mini's so far :/
Nov 10 16:38:39 <zoran> no, future item, but something like 802.16 or os
Nov 10 16:38:50 <dockane> is there anybody using an offline version of wikipedia on his tablet? i am pretty dissatisfied with the sdict version (german or english)
Nov 10 16:39:22 <dockane> btw: got approx 8 gb free on one sdhc-card for wikipedia
Nov 10 16:39:59 <Andy80> what are the differences from MiniSD and MiniSDHC ?
Nov 10 16:40:17 <alterego> Flippin' out of stock too ..
Nov 10 16:40:27 <alterego> SDHC is high capacity.
Nov 10 16:40:29 <zoran> hm, nice dict is WordNet
Nov 10 16:40:53 <Jaffa> zerojay: I've registered http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/ and imported it into svn there. v0.05 will support 770-encode or tablet-encode (the former's new name), a "url" setting and maybe VDR
Nov 10 16:40:59 <alterego> I think there's some bus changes or something that allow machines to address more storage.
Nov 10 16:41:10 <zerojay> Jaffa: Awesome.
Nov 10 16:41:54 * Jaffa is catching up on 770-encode patches and features to improve that and release v2.00 of it, before the next mediaserv since it's working reasonably well for me at the moment.
Nov 10 16:43:04 <alterego> Anyone know a good place to get miniSD cards?
Nov 10 16:43:09 <zerojay> Jaffa: Are you going to be using vcfg files?
Nov 10 16:43:36 * Jaffa 's ordered a 6GB MicroSD card + MiniSD adapter + a 1GB MiniSD card from Mobymemory.com this morning.
Nov 10 16:44:02 <zerojay> How much was the 6GB micro?
Nov 10 16:44:08 <alterego> Are they cheap/reliable?
Nov 10 16:44:14 <alterego> Have you bought from them before?
Nov 10 16:44:14 <Jaffa> zerojay: yeah, I fixed a bug with the MIME types and so v0.05's icon at the top-left should actually now work with vcfg files
Nov 10 16:44:48 <Jaffa> alterego: I have indeed. Not sure whether they ship outside the UK, but the 6GB MicroSD was 35ukp (incl. a USB card reader for it)
Nov 10 16:44:51 <zerojay> Okay, cool. I just added automatic vcfg creation for my video center catalog.
Nov 10 16:44:59 <Jaffa> zerojay: cool
Nov 10 16:45:06 <alterego> Jaffa, that's fine. I'm British ;)
Nov 10 16:45:14 <Jaffa> alterego: perfect :)
Nov 10 16:45:30 <zerojay> Once you add the stream to the database, it generates the vcfg and updates the rss feed.
Nov 10 16:45:34 * Jaffa bought the adapter and the other card cos it's free postage at 40 quid
Nov 10 16:45:39 <Jaffa> zerojay: very cool
Nov 10 16:46:27 <zerojay> The site isn't designed to look good.. just to work, but if you want to take a look.. http://www.jablet.net/videocenter/
Nov 10 16:47:06 <zerojay> Links to mp3 versions of the video shows when available.. an mplayer icon for those that only play in Mplayer...
Nov 10 16:47:16 <Jaffa> Suggestion: put title tags on the icons or the links to indicate... that :)
Nov 10 16:47:29 <zerojay> They already have ALT.
Nov 10 16:47:52 <zerojay> But I guess I'll do that too.
Nov 10 16:50:37 <alterego> The cheek, now he's trying to pinch the N810!
Nov 10 16:52:51 <alterego> Great, now it's segfaulting ..
Nov 10 17:02:50 <timelyx> hrm
Nov 10 17:03:15 <timelyx> so other than quite a few hearts, 1 email, and one blog post, i haven't seen much of a response
Nov 10 17:03:40 <zerojay> I think people are still reading it. lol
Nov 10 17:03:47 <alterego> Reading what?
Nov 10 17:03:55 <timelyx> heh
Nov 10 17:03:56 <alterego> Your Microbe post?
Nov 10 17:04:00 <zerojay> Yeah.
Nov 10 17:04:06 <alterego> That was a freakin' essay :P
Nov 10 17:04:18 <alterego> I couldn't write anything after reading it I was exhausted ^_^
Nov 10 17:04:36 <zerojay> He does like being verbose.. but that's good considering most of Nokia acting very closed.
Nov 10 17:04:37 <timelyx> it took 3 weeks to get it done
Nov 10 17:04:43 <alterego> :)
Nov 10 17:04:57 <timelyx> and believe me, you don't want to see the source material
Nov 10 17:05:36 <alterego> Heh
Nov 10 17:05:51 <alterego> Extremely good job. It was a very interesting and enlightening read.
Nov 10 17:06:25 <timelyx> fwiw, the Editor's notes are in the original versions of the index.txt file
Nov 10 17:06:27 <zerojay> I was talking about it with my coworkers and showed him the "don't ask me why it's a feature and not a bug" line.
Nov 10 17:06:29 <zerojay> Very popular.
Nov 10 17:06:58 <timelyx> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/www/news/9/
Nov 10 17:07:25 <timelyx> you can use CV Log to get the older versions
Nov 10 17:07:42 <zerojay> Is there still work going on to get the Webkit renderer in as well?
Nov 10 17:08:09 <timelyx> i couldn't say :)
Nov 10 17:09:27 <alterego> Who cares. MicroBe rocks.
Nov 10 17:09:44 * timelyx frowns
Nov 10 17:09:55 <timelyx> googling for microb is such a pain
Nov 10 17:10:11 <alterego> What are you looking for?
Nov 10 17:11:09 <timelyx> news about microb at times :)
Nov 10 17:11:56 <alterego> What license are the maemo icons released as?
Nov 10 17:12:08 <alterego> I'm thinking of using them instead of the gnome icons on my maemo site ..
Nov 10 17:12:16 <timelyx> um
Nov 10 17:12:20 <timelyx> which package are they in?
Nov 10 17:12:29 <alterego> Can't remember.
Nov 10 17:12:36 <timelyx> actually, i'd have to use vpn to get into the license stuff
Nov 10 17:12:38 <alterego> I'll find out hang on.
Nov 10 17:12:44 <timelyx> you've activated red pill, no?
Nov 10 17:12:51 <timelyx> if so, w/ a lot of pain you could find out :)
Nov 10 17:13:00 <alterego> I activated it.
Nov 10 17:13:03 <alterego> Then I deactivated it.
Nov 10 17:13:04 <alterego> :)
Nov 10 17:13:22 <alterego> sdk-default-icons-2.0
Nov 10 17:14:33 <timelyx> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/sardine-20071025/source/sdk-default-icons-2.0/debian/copyright
Nov 10 17:15:03 <timelyx> nice thing about cross referencing debian, some questions are trivial to answer :)
Nov 10 17:15:04 <alterego> Does that mean I can rip them off then?
Nov 10 17:15:07 <alterego> Yay :D
Nov 10 17:18:10 <tko> timelyx: ?? "Opening the VKB for a <textarea> will probably ignore autocapitalization mode and just use lowercase. (Editor's note: this seems to be rocket science, and the APIs involved don't seem to be particularly useful/workable.)"
Nov 10 17:19:34 <timelyx> tko: oops, i thought i dropped all the editor's notes :(
Nov 10 17:19:52 <alterego> Okay .. Kinetic scrolling is awesome :)
Nov 10 17:20:02 <zerojay> I hate it.
Nov 10 17:20:15 <timelyx> tko: best thing to do is find the original bugs relating to the "fix"
Nov 10 17:21:07 <tko> timelyx: the release notes were kind of missing context...
Nov 10 17:21:32 <tko> that just caught my eye, can't recall similar things being mentioned before
Nov 10 17:21:51 <timelyx> tko: i tried to remove all the editor's notes from the final release notes
Nov 10 17:22:03 <tko> failed :)
Nov 10 17:22:05 <timelyx> sorry if i missed that one
Nov 10 17:22:19 <timelyx> tko: the biggest release note i missed is this:
Nov 10 17:22:28 <tko> I'm still interested in where that's coming from
Nov 10 17:23:02 <timelyx> Anyone trying to use the FKB on ITOS2008 with a Password field will find the results interesting
Nov 10 17:23:14 <timelyx> namely it happily encrypts your password with asterisks
Nov 10 17:23:39 <timelyx> so unless you use your FKB to *create* your password, you'll never be able to use the FKB to log in
Nov 10 17:23:58 <timelyx> we found that friday after i published
Nov 10 17:24:19 <mgedmin> you mean it not only shows asterisks, but also sends asterisks to the application?
Nov 10 17:24:21 <mgedmin> genius
Nov 10 17:24:22 <_Monkey> well, genius is the man who sees the simple things that were right on our faces...
Nov 10 17:24:33 <timelyx> yes
Nov 10 17:24:56 <alterego> FKB?
Nov 10 17:25:02 <timelyx> finger keyboard
Nov 10 17:25:04 <alterego> typo?
Nov 10 17:25:05 <alterego> Oh
Nov 10 17:25:13 <alterego> The large VKB right?
Nov 10 17:25:16 <timelyx> yes
Nov 10 17:25:19 <alterego> Okay
Nov 10 17:25:42 * alterego wants to buy the N810 now.
Nov 10 17:25:48 <alterego> Why isn't it here yet :)
Nov 10 17:25:55 <zerojay> Yes, please.
Nov 10 17:25:59 <zerojay> Right this second.
Nov 10 17:26:05 <zerojay> I want teleportation delivery.
Nov 10 17:26:13 * zerojay bangs desk with fist.
Nov 10 17:26:18 <zerojay> NOW!
Nov 10 17:26:41 <alterego> The notice made it sound like it'd be available to each country incrementally as the shipments arrive. Is this correct?
Nov 10 17:26:52 <zerojay> As it always was.
Nov 10 17:26:59 <timelyx> brother
Nov 10 17:27:12 <alterego> Right
Nov 10 17:27:12 <zerojay> I'd imagine that they're in the middle of flashing the final OS 2008 image to the tablets right now.
Nov 10 17:27:16 <timelyx> tko: my browser doesn't know my password
Nov 10 17:27:27 <alterego> They said they're shipping them.
Nov 10 17:27:37 <zerojay> Who said?
Nov 10 17:27:48 * alterego looks for the message.
Nov 10 17:28:01 <tko> timelyx: isn't that a good thing? if you're security conscious that is
Nov 10 17:28:11 <timelyx> tko: it knows my old password
Nov 10 17:28:38 <mgedmin> vkb word predictor knows a lot of my passwords :(
Nov 10 17:28:39 <tko> timelyx: well, you outsmarted your browser. good for you :-P
Nov 10 17:28:53 <timelyx> no, that was the stupid password expiry policy
Nov 10 17:29:01 <timelyx> which expired my password while i was on vacation
Nov 10 17:29:19 <alterego> zerojay, the announcement about the full 4.0 SDK
Nov 10 17:29:26 <alterego> and the device "landing".
Nov 10 17:29:41 <zerojay> I don't remember anything saying "we've shipped them off".
Nov 10 17:29:47 <alterego> "The Nokia N810 Internet Tablet is going through the distribution channels as we speak ... "
Nov 10 17:30:15 <alterego> Which reminds me ..
Nov 10 17:30:28 * mgedmin wonders if the promised OS2008 image for the N800 are in the distribution channels too
Nov 10 17:30:38 <alterego> Here I am playing around with ruby1.9 when I could be writing another library :)
Nov 10 17:30:43 <zerojay> It's the same image for both.
Nov 10 17:31:02 <zerojay> Or should be as far as we've heard.
Nov 10 17:31:04 <mgedmin> ah, but is it the same download location?
Nov 10 17:31:04 <rubiks> the default email client is not very good on the n800
Nov 10 17:31:06 <alterego> Yes, hopefully I'll be able to flash my N800 before the N810 arrives ^_^
Nov 10 17:31:14 <mgedmin> and does the web page accept both n800 and n810 serials?
Nov 10 17:31:17 <alterego> rubiks, yes. It's rubbish ;)
Nov 10 17:31:29 <zerojay> I've been hearing the OS2008 flash image will be a week later than the N810 release.
Nov 10 17:31:35 <mgedmin> I see
Nov 10 17:31:37 <zerojay> rubiks: Works for my needs.
Nov 10 17:31:38 <rubiks> any good one out the
Nov 10 17:31:49 <mgedmin> the EULA on the http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php does not have OS2008
Nov 10 17:31:51 <rubiks> there
Nov 10 17:32:05 <mgedmin> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php does not accept my N800's serial
Nov 10 17:32:33 <zerojay> Yeah, OS2008 isn't released yet.. so.. neither of those should be a surprise.
Nov 10 17:32:39 <Fatal> meh, bad bad day :/
Nov 10 17:32:49 <alterego> Heh
Nov 10 17:35:25 <Fatal> oh well, shame nokia didn't mail those who didn't get accepted. guess it's time to give my 770 to someone with good soldering skills to fix it up again
Nov 10 17:35:55 <timelyx> tko: does the 810 page let you in w/ a proto?
Nov 10 17:36:32 <timelyx> oh brother
Nov 10 17:36:42 <tko> don't have a device at hand atm
Nov 10 17:36:46 <timelyx> note to self: serial is under battery. device is on. battery is important
Nov 10 17:37:24 <alterego> serial is in control panel -> about product
Nov 10 17:37:26 <alterego> ;)
Nov 10 17:37:36 <timelyx> heh, about product jumped to the MPL/NPL section :)
Nov 10 17:37:40 <alterego> It's just the WLAN MAC address.
Nov 10 17:37:57 <alterego> There's no need to bust open your device for it ^_^
Nov 10 17:38:17 <timelyx> ok, that page is protecting an EULA and an MD5SUMS file
Nov 10 17:38:37 <timelyx> which oddly enough includes the sum for one image
Nov 10 17:38:39 * timelyx puzzles
Nov 10 17:39:29 <lopz> re
Nov 10 17:40:02 <timelyx> so does that mean the image isn't a secret anymore? :)
Nov 10 17:40:18 <alterego> Hah, probably.
Nov 10 17:40:25 <alterego> Does it give you the image's filename?
Nov 10 17:40:30 <alterego> Maybe you can download it ;)
Nov 10 17:40:55 <alterego> Something like: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php?f=RX-34_2007SE_2.2006.51-6_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin
Nov 10 17:41:00 <timelyx> it gives me the filename
Nov 10 17:41:06 <timelyx> because that's how you checksum
Nov 10 17:41:37 <alterego> Try it!
Nov 10 17:41:45 <timelyx> seems to work
Nov 10 17:41:48 <timelyx> ...
Nov 10 17:41:51 <timelyx> rocket science
Nov 10 17:43:54 <zerojay> It works?
Nov 10 17:44:00 <timelyx> yes
Nov 10 17:44:04 <zerojay> The image is downloadable?
Nov 10 17:44:17 <alterego> Hah
Nov 10 17:44:18 <alterego> New it ..
Nov 10 17:44:26 <timelyx> actually, no
Nov 10 17:44:30 <alterego> Oh well.
Nov 10 17:44:46 <timelyx> it's a php error
Nov 10 17:45:15 <alterego> :/
Nov 10 17:45:18 <alterego> Meh.
Nov 10 17:45:28 <alterego> Worth a try ;)
Nov 10 17:46:12 <timelyx> tko: where would you report a bug about tabelts-dev?
Nov 10 17:46:40 <alterego> I'd imagine it's under the maemo umbrella.
Nov 10 17:46:47 <alterego> They have SDK index there as well ..
Nov 10 17:46:52 <tko> nokia.com -> tablets -> support -> contact form -> something -> somehwere
Nov 10 17:47:04 <tko> IIRC
Nov 10 17:47:24 <timelyx> alterego: afaik it isn't under bugs.maemo
Nov 10 17:47:26 <tko> bugzilla might work.. but dunno. it was a mess last time I asked
Nov 10 17:47:31 <alterego> Ah
Nov 10 17:47:58 <timelyx> tko: i could fille a bug against quim in misdirected:nokia
Nov 10 17:48:02 <timelyx> and make him deal w/ it
Nov 10 17:48:19 <timelyx> if i did that, i'd mark it OOPS so no one here could read it :) -- just in case you're curious
Nov 10 17:48:42 <timelyx> oops, battery low
Nov 10 17:48:44 <timelyx> cute sound
Nov 10 17:50:00 <timelyx> ok, any good movies on today @finnkino?
Nov 10 17:56:20 <Vedmak> Hi guys! I've installed perl with apt-get but I can't find path to perl processor, there's no /usr/binperl
Nov 10 17:56:39 <timelyx> http://www.greysanatomyinsider.com/quotes/characters/izzie-stevens/page_9.html
Nov 10 17:56:50 <shackan> [sbox-SDK_BETA_ARMEL: ~] > which perl
Nov 10 17:56:51 <shackan> /scratchbox/tools/bin/perl
Nov 10 17:56:54 <alterego> Vedmak, 'which perl'
Nov 10 17:57:02 <timelyx> GEORGE: "I'm just saying. I'm just saying life is short. You know it's like cancer happens and surgery happens and you know, you got... rosebuds! You got 8.7 million rosebuds, Izzie! Now go spend some rosebuds, that's what I'm saying."
Nov 10 17:57:16 <Vedmak> tnx
Nov 10 17:57:53 <zerojay> timelyx: I'd respond to that, but I'm not really allowed to do so.
Nov 10 17:58:09 <timelyx> zerojay: which?
Nov 10 17:58:10 <_Monkey> or available for busybox
Nov 10 17:58:24 <timelyx> _Monkey literal which
Nov 10 17:58:25 <_Monkey> timelyx: which =is= <reply> or available for busybox
Nov 10 17:58:27 <zerojay> timelyx: The Grey's stuff.
Nov 10 18:01:06 <timelyx> can anyone here justify _Monkey's answer? if not, it's dead.
Nov 10 18:01:15 <zerojay> No.
Nov 10 18:01:17 <zerojay> Kill it.
Nov 10 18:01:28 <zerojay> The bot, not just the answer.
Nov 10 18:01:44 <timelyx> _Monkey forget which
Nov 10 18:01:44 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot which
Nov 10 18:01:48 <timelyx> _Monkey which is <reply>
Nov 10 18:01:49 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Nov 10 18:02:17 <timelyx> oh, it's an inheritance check
Nov 10 18:02:24 <timelyx> arg, i missed some episodes
Nov 10 18:02:33 <zerojay> My wife's a huge fan.
Nov 10 18:02:36 <zerojay> I'm not.
Nov 10 18:02:52 <Vedmak> anyone already tried chinook on n800? Any significant differences?
Nov 10 18:02:54 <timelyx> zerojay: i don't suppose you can dhl a complete set?
Nov 10 18:03:00 * timelyx keeps missing things
Nov 10 18:03:07 <zerojay> dhl?
Nov 10 18:03:23 <timelyx> fedex if you prefer :)
Nov 10 18:03:23 <zerojay> Oh, the shipping company?
Nov 10 18:03:27 <zerojay> Haha.
Nov 10 18:03:57 <zerojay> I wouldn't mind sending you a few DVDs with them if I've got some cash left over when the Christmas stuff dies down.
Nov 10 18:08:30 * timelyx sighs
Nov 10 18:08:50 <timelyx> how long was my article up before it got burried under n810 giveaways?
Nov 10 18:09:10 <zerojay> Hah.. it was on top for a day or so.
Nov 10 18:09:29 <timelyx> ok, good enough for me
Nov 10 18:11:17 * timelyx chuckles
Nov 10 18:11:26 * timelyx likes grey's, sorry zerojay :)
Nov 10 18:12:30 <zerojay> No biggie.
Nov 10 18:12:37 <disq> ooh tv talk. ah, greys, shitty show
Nov 10 18:13:27 <zerojay> time, join jaffa for a sec.
Nov 10 18:21:27 * alterego contemplates what to put in the next release.
Nov 10 18:21:41 <alterego> I'm thinking alarmd and proper hildon stock icon support.
Nov 10 18:22:31 <hexa> hi all , I'd like to work on rtcomm .. but I can't seem to find the source , could this be closed ? no link on http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org ?
Nov 10 18:22:54 <alterego> Have you tried google?
Nov 10 18:22:58 <alterego> They have everyting.
Nov 10 18:24:33 <hexa> alterego, yeah found : https://garage.maemo.org/svn/rtcomm/rtcomm/ wigh google but nothing there..
Nov 10 18:24:40 <timelyx> have you tried the cross reference?
Nov 10 18:25:01 <hexa> ?
Nov 10 18:25:11 <timelyx> well, they have a deb :)
Nov 10 18:25:13 <zerojay> hexa: A little late for RTCOMM.. it was worked on as a separate beta for inclusion as part of OS2008.
Nov 10 18:25:35 <hexa> i'm more looking for the svn or something like that...
Nov 10 18:25:46 <zerojay> SVN is chinook's SVN.
Nov 10 18:25:54 <timelyx> chinook's svn?
Nov 10 18:25:59 <zerojay> Whatever.
Nov 10 18:25:59 <alterego> Heh
Nov 10 18:26:12 <zerojay> Not everything in RTCOMM's open source either.
Nov 10 18:27:14 <hexa> zerojay, humm k .. looking for the chinook svn..
Nov 10 18:29:00 <alterego> The svn is the svn.
Nov 10 18:29:06 <alterego> It's neither chinook nor bora.
Nov 10 18:29:22 <alterego> Just look in the maemo SVN repository.
Nov 10 18:29:32 <hexa> yeah I'm searching in it.. thx ;)
Nov 10 18:30:37 <timelyx> alterego: which svn is this?
Nov 10 18:31:05 <hexa> ( i'm looking at : https://stage.maemo.org/viewcvs.cgi/?root=maemo ).. no trace of rtcomm yet..
Nov 10 18:31:12 <alterego> stage.maemo.org I'd guess.
Nov 10 18:32:52 <hexa> :( best I can find is only the svn with the .dev and th webpage hehe https://garage.maemo.org/svn/rtcomm
Nov 10 18:33:21 <hexa> er.. .deb I mean
Nov 10 18:33:47 <timelyx> yeah, i already found that :), http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/find?string=rtcom
Nov 10 18:35:56 <alterego> Heh, the SDK is pretty broken.
Nov 10 18:36:04 <timelyx> how so?
Nov 10 18:36:27 <alterego> I'm having to retrieve a _lot_ of source packages to build.
Nov 10 18:36:36 <alterego> By a _lot_ 4 so far.
Nov 10 18:36:41 <alterego> ;)
Nov 10 18:37:02 <zerojay> I retrieve more than that on my daily Gentoo updates.
Nov 10 18:37:18 <alterego> Serves you right for using gentoo.
Nov 10 18:37:21 * alterego chuckles.
Nov 10 18:37:29 <zerojay> It's worth it.
Nov 10 18:37:33 <alterego> Rubbish.
Nov 10 18:37:42 <alterego> How is gentoo with it?
Nov 10 18:38:02 <zerojay> Running a virtual server on Debian has just made me appreciate it so much more.
Nov 10 18:38:03 <alterego> Hmm .. Can't even find this package >:(
Nov 10 18:38:05 <alterego> GRR.
Nov 10 18:38:06 <zerojay> Gentoo, that is.
Nov 10 18:38:25 <timelyx> alterego: which package?
Nov 10 18:38:26 <_Monkey> which package are they in?
Nov 10 18:38:27 <shackan> alterego: welcome to the club
Nov 10 18:38:31 <zerojay> No downloading and installing a bunch of crap I never use..
Nov 10 18:38:34 <alterego> osso-systemui-dbus
Nov 10 18:38:38 <timelyx> _Monkey forget \which package
Nov 10 18:38:39 <_Monkey> timelyx, I didn't have anything matching \which package
Nov 10 18:38:41 <timelyx> _Monkey forget which package
Nov 10 18:38:42 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot which package
Nov 10 18:38:59 <timelyx> _Monkey which package is <reply>
Nov 10 18:39:00 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Nov 10 18:39:14 <alterego> I've had nothing but trouble with gentoo.
Nov 10 18:39:19 <alterego> Most of the time the installer breaks.
Nov 10 18:39:31 <zerojay> The GUI installer?
Nov 10 18:39:36 <zerojay> It's total crap.
Nov 10 18:39:38 <alterego> And all I hear are people complaining about dependency breakage.
Nov 10 18:39:59 <zerojay> In about 4 years, I've only had maybe two major problems.
Nov 10 18:40:06 <alterego> Linux is linux.
Nov 10 18:40:10 <zerojay> Both of which when a glibc update came down.
Nov 10 18:40:15 <alterego> The installer is what makes a distro good.
Nov 10 18:40:20 <zerojay> Disagree.
Nov 10 18:40:32 <zerojay> The installer is what makes a distro good for 20 minutes.
Nov 10 18:40:34 <alterego> Installer and package management.
Nov 10 18:40:43 <zerojay> Package management is what makes it good.
Nov 10 18:40:45 <alterego> A distro is no good if it doesn't install :P
Nov 10 18:40:55 <alterego> gentoo's package manager is broken.
Nov 10 18:40:59 <alterego> Case closed.
Nov 10 18:41:02 <alterego> :)
Nov 10 18:41:07 <zerojay> Thanks.
Nov 10 18:41:24 <zerojay> You just proved to me once again that people don't know what "broken" means.
Nov 10 18:41:33 <alterego> Broken means doesn't work.
Nov 10 18:41:51 <zerojay> Well, it's been working for me for four years straight, so it's not broken. :)
Nov 10 18:41:55 <alterego> Like, I'll install X, oh, X needs Y and Z. I'll fall over on my face now.
Nov 10 18:42:05 <alterego> Maybe you've been lucky.
Nov 10 18:42:07 <zerojay> That' doesn't happen.
Nov 10 18:42:12 <alterego> Sure it does.
Nov 10 18:42:14 <zerojay> Happens in Debian all the time though.
Nov 10 18:42:21 <alterego> Happened to a friend the other day attempting to install KDE.
Nov 10 18:42:26 <zerojay> X is in the repository... Y and Z are not.
Nov 10 18:42:38 <zerojay> Okay.. and what happened?
Nov 10 18:42:45 <alterego> I've never had any problems with debian that haven't taken a couple of seconds and a google search to fix.
Nov 10 18:42:51 <alterego> He couldn't install it.
Nov 10 18:42:53 <zerojay> Debian's a nightmare.
Nov 10 18:42:55 <alterego> Gave up and installed debian.
Nov 10 18:43:12 <alterego> Okay, I've had many problems with debian.
Nov 10 18:43:14 <zerojay> Having to hunt down dependencies on your own... oh, it's not compiled the way you need...
Nov 10 18:43:20 <alterego> But only maemo SDK problems :)
Nov 10 18:43:28 <Fatal> heck, if a distribution works for you, use it
Nov 10 18:43:30 <alterego> Never had that problem.
Nov 10 18:43:41 <zerojay> All the time here.
Nov 10 18:43:47 <zerojay> Constantly.
Nov 10 18:43:50 <alterego> If I need something compiled in a specific way. I'll do it myself.
Nov 10 18:43:56 <Fatal> you guys while more than I do
Nov 10 18:43:59 <Fatal> whine
Nov 10 18:43:59 <Fatal> :D
Nov 10 18:44:04 <zerojay> That's exactly why I just stick with Gentoo.
Nov 10 18:44:10 <Monkulus> mmmm... debian
Nov 10 18:44:11 <zerojay> If i'm going to have to compile it anyways...
Nov 10 18:44:14 <alterego> Because you have to compile everything?
Nov 10 18:44:19 <alterego> In a specific way?
Nov 10 18:44:26 <alterego> I don't have that time to waste.
Nov 10 18:44:35 <alterego> Anyhow, back to my problem ..
Nov 10 18:44:40 <zerojay> I don't want the same features and packages installed that debian wants.
Nov 10 18:44:41 <alterego> Where the hell is osso-systemui-dbus
Nov 10 18:45:41 <alterego> Gentoo isn't a distro. It's a build system.
Nov 10 18:45:54 <disq> gentoo.sh
Nov 10 18:45:56 <disq> you say :P
Nov 10 18:45:59 <alterego> :)
Nov 10 18:46:06 <timelyx> it in't
Nov 10 18:46:15 <timelyx> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/search?string=osso-systemui-dbus&find=debian%2Fcontrol
Nov 10 18:46:36 <timelyx> if it existed, it'd be in the list
Nov 10 18:46:54 <alterego> Crap.
Nov 10 18:47:04 * timelyx tries searching sardine
Nov 10 18:47:20 <alterego> Thanks timelyx yet again you're being a great help ;)
Nov 10 18:47:22 <timelyx> no entries in the sardine i have
Nov 10 18:47:31 <alterego> Hmmm.
Nov 10 18:47:57 <timelyx> note: that search will generally work wonders
Nov 10 18:48:03 <timelyx> it's by far one of my favorites
Nov 10 18:48:05 <alterego> Yeah, it's nice :)
Nov 10 18:48:08 * timelyx should add it into the suggestions set
Nov 10 18:48:45 <alterego> Hmm./
Nov 10 18:48:57 <alterego> I'll see if I can compile the package without that dep >:/
Nov 10 18:50:22 <timelyx> ok, it's in the suggestions box :)
Nov 10 18:50:22 <alterego> Is it possible that osso-systemui-dbus is closed source?
Nov 10 18:50:31 <timelyx> trivial to check from work
Nov 10 18:50:37 <timelyx> but i don't want to pull my laptop out
Nov 10 18:51:22 <alterego> That's okay.
Nov 10 18:51:28 <alterego> Hopefully this'll work.
Nov 10 18:52:06 <alterego> Nope :/
Nov 10 18:52:11 <alterego> This isn't good ..
Nov 10 18:52:37 <alterego> So .. They publish the alarmd documentation. But they don't have the alarmd-dev package .. Typical.
Nov 10 18:54:37 <timelyx> iirc you can file sdk bugs in bugs.maemo
Nov 10 18:54:58 <alterego> Would this count as a bug?
Nov 10 18:54:59 <alterego> :)
Nov 10 18:55:18 <alterego> I've not yet filed a bug. This'll be an experience.
Nov 10 18:56:41 <Luria> meh. if you want good package management, use a bsd.
Nov 10 18:56:50 <alterego> pfft
Nov 10 18:57:49 <timelyx> Luria: fwiw, in my personal opinion, the jury's still out on real package updates
Nov 10 18:58:32 <alterego> "Development platform" or "System software"?
Nov 10 18:58:41 <alterego> I'm thinking system software ..
Nov 10 18:59:04 <Luria> speaking of which, are we getting the promised "no more reflashing" with chinook?
Nov 10 18:59:22 <Luria> no one seems to be mentioning that
Nov 10 19:01:31 <timelyx> Luria: i think it's a safe bet gps won't work at the flagship :)
Nov 10 19:01:35 <alterego> That would be cool.
Nov 10 19:02:26 <Luria> oh wow, i made that comment like 22 hours ago
Nov 10 19:02:29 <timelyx> Luria: some part of the device isn't part of the normla file system
Nov 10 19:02:37 <Luria> thats some lag
Nov 10 19:02:41 <timelyx> so, some flashing would presumably be required
Nov 10 19:02:55 <timelyx> Luria: the other comment was re an older comment of yours :)
Nov 10 19:03:20 <alterego> Yes, kernel and boot image.
Nov 10 19:03:22 <Luria> fine, as long as i dont i dont have to wipe the file system :-)
Nov 10 19:03:37 <Luria> oh well
Nov 10 19:03:54 <alterego> Yeah, hopefully updates will be easier.
Nov 10 19:03:58 <alterego> And no intrusive.
Nov 10 19:05:04 <Luria> yeah, im getting antsy... i backed up source.lst and did dpkg dpkg get-selections today
Nov 10 19:05:11 <alterego> Great, in the process of filing a bug. I forgot my garage password and found another bug in the bug system :/
Nov 10 19:05:21 <alterego> It must be my lucky day or something.
Nov 10 19:05:24 <Luria> i cant believe i have to do that
Nov 10 19:05:41 <timelyx> alterego: what bug?
Nov 10 19:05:41 <_Monkey> i guess bug is shitty
Nov 10 19:05:47 <timelyx> _Monkey forget bug
Nov 10 19:05:47 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot bug
Nov 10 19:05:51 <timelyx> _Monkey bug is <reply>
Nov 10 19:05:52 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Nov 10 19:06:44 <alterego> Actually it might not be a bug.
Nov 10 19:07:13 <alterego> It says login name in the recovery field but you have to enter your email.
Nov 10 19:07:19 <Luria> err... why did i type dpkg twice? im nuts.
Nov 10 19:07:20 <alterego> Though, the email is the login so ..
Nov 10 19:07:38 <Luria> i think i need food.
Nov 10 19:08:34 <alterego> You think? :)
Nov 10 19:09:22 <timelyx> alterego: it might not be an email address
Nov 10 19:09:28 <timelyx> that's correct for the average case
Nov 10 19:09:41 <alterego> It is an email address.
Nov 10 19:09:46 <Luria> maybe i should bike to the villiage and get some jerk chicken sandwiches from the jamaican place... hmmm...
Nov 10 19:09:59 <alterego> I thought the bugzilla used the garage details. I was wrong, I don't have a bugzilla account.
Nov 10 19:10:02 <timelyx> alterego: the product does not always use email addresses
Nov 10 19:10:10 <timelyx> product=bugzilla
Nov 10 19:10:10 <alterego> Ah, right.
Nov 10 19:11:38 <l7> hey, does anyone know if the IT2008 update will boost the n800's processor speed?
Nov 10 19:11:49 <alterego> l7, appearantly so.
Nov 10 19:11:51 <timelyx> yes
Nov 10 19:11:57 <timelyx> note that it's not really a simple boost
Nov 10 19:12:03 <timelyx> speed becomes dynamic
Nov 10 19:12:08 <timelyx> 400 is merely the top speed
Nov 10 19:12:12 <timelyx> instead of a fixed whichever
Nov 10 19:12:24 <Luria> huh? you mean there wasnt dynamic clocking before?
Nov 10 19:13:39 <l7> hmm, does that mean increased battery life?
Nov 10 19:13:46 <l7> less heat output, if that is even as issue?
Nov 10 19:14:03 <Luria> it should, yeah
Nov 10 19:14:20 <l7> so that means the n810 and n800 should become close to identical, aside from keyboard and gps
Nov 10 19:14:23 <Luria> or rather, the battery life it should have had in the first place :-)
Nov 10 19:14:30 <l7> and SD slots vs miniSD
Nov 10 19:14:33 <Luria> and screen, camera, and sd
Nov 10 19:14:46 <l7> ohh yeah, n810 has a brighter screen :\
Nov 10 19:14:46 <Luria> and usb port
Nov 10 19:14:47 <_Monkey> it has been said that usb port is not charger
Nov 10 19:14:51 <l7> usb port?
Nov 10 19:14:51 <_Monkey> usb port is not charger
Nov 10 19:15:12 <l7> does the n810 lack a usb port too?
Nov 10 19:15:25 <Luria> supposedly, n810 has a usbtogo working out of the box
Nov 10 19:15:35 <l7> oh
Nov 10 19:15:46 <l7> i guess n800 requires hacks for usbtogo then
Nov 10 19:15:51 <Luria> also its micro usb instead of mini or whatever the jargon is
Nov 10 19:15:57 <Luria> when it works
Nov 10 19:16:04 <l7> ehh, micro usb?
Nov 10 19:16:05 <timelyx> screen is transflexive
Nov 10 19:16:09 <timelyx> and tied to a light sensor
Nov 10 19:16:14 <l7> all my other gadgets are mini-usb
Nov 10 19:16:22 <l7> mp3 players and phones
Nov 10 19:16:26 <Luria> oops, mentioned the screen forgot the sensor.
Nov 10 19:16:30 <l7> oh yeah
Nov 10 19:16:47 <l7> do you have any problems reading your n800 outside?
Nov 10 19:16:52 <Luria> tons
Nov 10 19:17:03 <l7> ouch
Nov 10 19:17:04 <timelyx> no, there's no sun here in helsinki most of the year
Nov 10 19:17:12 <l7> have you found any work-arounds?
Nov 10 19:17:16 <timelyx> i have lots of problems testing the n810 for that reason
Nov 10 19:17:22 <timelyx> walk in the shade :)
Nov 10 19:17:23 <l7> hat with brim?
Nov 10 19:17:31 <Luria> yeah, find a tree and boost the screen output to 100
Nov 10 19:17:40 <l7> hmm
Nov 10 19:17:51 <l7> i wonder if the screen is a reason to consider the n810...
Nov 10 19:18:02 <timelyx> l7: ask me in may :)
Nov 10 19:18:06 <Luria> it is, but thats about it
Nov 10 19:18:11 <l7> timelyx: why in may? :)
Nov 10 19:18:20 <timelyx> there should be sun in helsinki about then
Nov 10 19:18:24 <timelyx> if i'm lucky
Nov 10 19:18:27 <l7> ahh
Nov 10 19:18:50 <l7> man $250 for a screen upgrade...
Nov 10 19:18:59 <Luria> do they have groundhogs day for the sun?
Nov 10 19:19:00 <timelyx> that's how i see it
Nov 10 19:19:19 <l7> i guess the n810 will drop is price eventually
Nov 10 19:19:20 <Luria> like the sun comes up, and goes back in, its winter all over for 3 more months?
Nov 10 19:19:36 <l7> i wonder if the n810 will be readable in the sun
Nov 10 19:19:42 <timelyx> that's the theory
Nov 10 19:19:46 <timelyx> it's supposed to be
Nov 10 19:19:51 <timelyx> but like i said, i can't test
Nov 10 19:19:57 <Luria> from youtube,  it looks good
Nov 10 19:20:02 <timelyx> when it should be day, we have clouds
Nov 10 19:20:25 <l7> must be depressing
Nov 10 19:20:33 <timelyx> plus you're supposed to be at work during sun hours
Nov 10 19:20:46 <Luria> never understood how nokia, with 30% of the cell market could make an outdoor useless device... and then sell a gps navkit thats unreadable
Nov 10 19:21:15 <timelyx> www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=50592
Nov 10 19:21:39 <timelyx> Luria: i don't understand nokia at all, that's simpler :)
Nov 10 19:21:49 <l7> Luria: trial and error maybe...
Nov 10 19:21:57 <timelyx> _error_ :)
Nov 10 19:22:02 <l7> tablet form factor seems to be new for nokia
Nov 10 19:22:03 <l7> :)
Nov 10 19:22:11 <timelyx> but it's more like _error_ and _trial_, then _new_error_
Nov 10 19:22:19 <Luria> i still suspect/hope that the n810 will extend the support the n800 gets
Nov 10 19:22:51 <timelyx> but the software is getting better :)
Nov 10 19:22:58 <l7> Luria: why wouldn't it, if they both run IT2008?
Nov 10 19:24:06 <Luria> ah, what i mean is, i remember that users were promised at least 2 more major firmware updates after the skype release
Nov 10 19:24:23 <l7> ah
Nov 10 19:24:32 <Luria> with a new n800 device, i expect it to be more than one more
Nov 10 19:24:45 * timelyx shrugs
Nov 10 19:24:49 <timelyx> i don't think anyone knows :)
Nov 10 19:24:52 <l7> i heard a rumor about another OS release that would maintain IT2007 compatibility too
Nov 10 19:24:55 <Luria> i guess
Nov 10 19:25:21 <l7> n800 still seems like a better deal
Nov 10 19:25:38 <timelyx> ok, which of: lions for lambs, mr brooks, the heartbreak kid, the brave one, and easter promises is worth seeing?
Nov 10 19:25:48 <l7> but i still can't decide
Nov 10 19:25:53 <timelyx> keep in mind that i don't have any interest in saw iv or anything else listed on http://www.finnkino.fi/?lang=eng
Nov 10 19:26:01 <timelyx> l7: buy the n800, play w/ it for a year
Nov 10 19:26:11 <timelyx> then consider whether you want to buy an n810 :)
Nov 10 19:26:55 <l7> timelyx: hmm, i guess i will want to see if i can live w/o a sliding keyboard and screen that works outside
Nov 10 19:27:00 <Luria> why not, superbad was cute.
Nov 10 19:27:08 <l7> is the GPS really unusuable?
Nov 10 19:27:26 <timelyx> i don't know anything about superbad
Nov 10 19:27:30 <timelyx> what is it?
Nov 10 19:27:50 <Luria> coming of age comedy
Nov 10 19:27:58 <timelyx> is it worth $15?
Nov 10 19:28:10 <timelyx> that's about the going rate here
Nov 10 19:28:12 <Luria> no, a torrent maybe :-)
Nov 10 19:28:29 <Luria> oh in theater, maybe
Nov 10 19:28:39 <Luria> damn, thats as bad as nyc
Nov 10 19:28:48 <timelyx> right, movie tickets
Nov 10 19:28:52 <Luria> well, google it
Nov 10 19:29:17 <timelyx> what about shoot em up?
Nov 10 19:30:16 <Luria> looked like dreck. i would do eastern promises over that any day
Nov 10 19:30:31 * timelyx crosses off the brave one
Nov 10 19:30:46 <timelyx> ok, eastern promises sounds like it
Nov 10 19:30:46 <l7> movies are $15 in finland?
Nov 10 19:30:56 <timelyx> 10 EUR
Nov 10 19:30:58 <timelyx> try the exchange
Nov 10 19:31:10 <l7> ah
Nov 10 19:31:29 <l7> too bad about the dollar dropping
Nov 10 19:31:43 <l7> i hope it doesn't affect nokia hardware prices too badly :\
Nov 10 19:32:03 <timelyx> it isn't, nokia's already stupid about them :)
Nov 10 19:32:15 <Luria> cheaper to buy from ti, maybe :-)
Nov 10 19:32:25 <l7> what's ti?
Nov 10 19:32:30 <timelyx> chip vendor
Nov 10 19:32:33 <l7> texas instruments?
Nov 10 19:32:36 <Luria> yeah
Nov 10 19:32:44 <l7> oh yeah
Nov 10 19:32:49 <l7> i guess it balances out
Nov 10 19:33:04 <timelyx> but seriously, until the dollar hits some other price point companies will probably keep their 1=1 match
Nov 10 19:33:21 <timelyx> i don't know if that's 2$=1EUR or 3$=1EUR or something else
Nov 10 19:33:24 <Luria> its not the prices that would annoy me... thats the same here. the fact that the movies are 3-6 months old
Nov 10 19:33:29 <db48x> does anyone here know what maemo-summoner does, exactly?
Nov 10 19:33:31 <timelyx> but atm it's just too dangerous to let prices float
Nov 10 19:33:35 <Luria> 2/1 would do it
Nov 10 19:33:39 <timelyx> db48x: it's an evil preload hack
Nov 10 19:33:47 <db48x> well, I know it's evil
Nov 10 19:33:47 <l7> hmm
Nov 10 19:33:51 <timelyx> or rather launcher does
Nov 10 19:33:59 <timelyx> summoner iirc is the "less" evil cousin
Nov 10 19:34:15 <timelyx> iirc launcher basically forks a copy of a binary that has most of gnome loaded
Nov 10 19:34:24 <db48x> it seems that when I use maemo-summoner the summoned app doesn't recieve it's command line arguments
Nov 10 19:34:24 <Luria> it brings forth a daedroth lord too
Nov 10 19:34:29 <timelyx> and then listens to some sort of message passer
Nov 10 19:34:48 <timelyx> dlopens the victim "app", and then calls a main()-like entry point
Nov 10 19:34:50 <alterego> There's no product for alarmd what do I do?
Nov 10 19:35:06 <timelyx> alterego: file your bug against the sdk team
Nov 10 19:35:10 <timelyx> this isn't a bug in alarmd, it's in the sdk
Nov 10 19:35:15 <db48x> timeless: weird
Nov 10 19:35:19 <timelyx> i believe summoner basically skips the fork and just does the other parts
Nov 10 19:35:32 <timelyx> db48x: you know nscp's attempts at preload, no?
Nov 10 19:35:37 <db48x> timelyx: why is that neccessary?
Nov 10 19:35:53 <timelyx> which? the fork?
Nov 10 19:35:54 <db48x> oh, this is preloading gtk libs, rather than the app
Nov 10 19:35:56 <timelyx> ld.so *sucks* :)
Nov 10 19:36:13 <timelyx> oh, and so does a lot of other stuff underneath (and above) it :)
Nov 10 19:36:16 <alterego> What about priority?
Nov 10 19:36:26 <alterego> It's pretty important to me ..
Nov 10 19:36:28 <alterego> :)
Nov 10 19:36:31 <timelyx> leave that alone for now
Nov 10 19:36:36 <alterego> Okay
Nov 10 19:36:46 <tko> maemo-launcher just saves memory and startup time
Nov 10 19:37:03 <tko> maemo-summoner just helps debugging
Nov 10 19:37:45 <kulve> and arguments get passed through the launcher at least
Nov 10 19:38:07 <tko> maemo-launcher requires the application to be dynamically loadable module which executable generally aren't, so instead they need to be converted to shared libraries. But then you can't run shared libraries from command line so you need maemo-summoner
Nov 10 19:39:20 <tko> recent enough gcc can produce position independent executables (PIE) which should be executable shared library in a sense and should render maemo-summoner obsolete
Nov 10 19:39:58 <alterego> Yeah, that's been around some time.
Nov 10 19:40:34 <tko> maemo-summoner should (almost) literally be main() { dlopen(argv[1]); real_main = dlsym("main"); return real_main (argv + 1, argc - 1); }
Nov 10 19:41:44 <db48x> yea
Nov 10 19:42:11 <db48x> for some reason the args aren't making it through, or this app is not parsing them when launched like this
Nov 10 19:45:27 <alterego> Bug submitted.
Nov 10 19:45:31 * alterego looks for something else to do.
Nov 10 19:46:46 <alterego> I'll do abook instead ..
Nov 10 19:48:36 <alterego> Hmm .. Doesn't exist.
Nov 10 19:48:47 <timelyx> ?
Nov 10 19:48:58 <alterego> Old lib. Must have been from bora.
Nov 10 19:48:58 <timelyx> use the xref to pick victims
Nov 10 19:49:08 * acydlord is a happy geek today
Nov 10 19:49:15 <timelyx> it only has things from chinook :)
Nov 10 19:49:22 <acydlord> i got confirmation on my developers discount yesterday
Nov 10 19:49:34 <alterego> I'll do cst instead.
Nov 10 19:49:38 <bedboi> is there a 3.x -> 4.x guide?
Nov 10 19:49:42 <alterego> acydlord, congrats :)
Nov 10 19:49:46 <timelyx> yuck
Nov 10 19:49:51 <acydlord> thanks
Nov 10 19:50:04 <alterego> Yeah.
Nov 10 19:50:10 <timelyx> cst must die someday
Nov 10 19:50:24 <alterego> It's new :P
Nov 10 19:50:50 <alterego> What would you suggest I do?
Nov 10 19:51:26 <timelyx> don't expect me to have a clue what's in chinook :)
Nov 10 19:51:34 <alterego> Hah
Nov 10 19:51:42 <timelyx> i build xrefs so i don't have to look unless someone asks
Nov 10 19:52:03 <timelyx> and then, i usually only look to guide people through using the xref so they won't ask next time
Nov 10 19:52:35 <alterego> Do you think it's worth doing rtcomm bindings?
Nov 10 19:53:17 <alterego> Actually, I know someone who'd need those. Esp, libaccounts
Nov 10 19:54:24 <alterego> O_o
Nov 10 19:54:29 <alterego> I can't find that either.
Nov 10 19:54:34 * alterego uses your tool.
Nov 10 19:55:48 <alterego> It's not there.
Nov 10 19:55:49 <alterego> wtf.
Nov 10 19:56:39 <alterego> Did they actually bother putting any of this stuff in ..
Nov 10 19:56:51 <alterego> Unless rtcomm is external.
Nov 10 19:56:57 * alterego slaps head.
Nov 10 19:58:18 <db48x> I guess I have to get this arm compiler working to debug this
Nov 10 20:02:02 * db48x laments vmware
Nov 10 20:02:11 <_|Nix|_> Is there a place where the valid syntax for hildon-desktop .desktop files is documented?
Nov 10 20:02:31 * timelyx chuckles
Nov 10 20:02:32 <alterego> freedesktop.org
Nov 10 20:02:33 <_|Nix|_> In particular, I'm interested to know if/how it supports localized Name= entries
Nov 10 20:04:07 <alterego> The installation document for 4.0 has got quite a few errors in it.
Nov 10 20:04:46 <alterego> Firstly, sudo where it should be fakeroot, secondly the nokia-binaries installer should be run _outside_ of scratchbox, where the example shows the SDK prompt ..
Nov 10 20:05:00 * alterego dispairs
Nov 10 20:05:17 <_|Nix|_> Can you edit the page? *shrug*
Nov 10 20:05:25 <alterego> It's a text document.
Nov 10 20:05:33 <timelyx> alterego: file bugs :)
Nov 10 20:06:12 <Luria> did they ever document the vkb system
Nov 10 20:06:28 <alterego> Would you say this is a development platform issue or a documentation issue?
Nov 10 20:06:34 <_|Nix|_> Hmmm ... the image-viewer.desktop file uses logical IDs for Name= and Comment= ... I wonder which setting tells hildon-desktop the translation domain they're coming from ...
Nov 10 20:06:40 <Luria> oh wait, i think i found it
Nov 10 20:06:44 <Luria> never mind
Nov 10 20:07:06 <kaltsi> bedboi alterego file it under development platform, that'll get it to the right guys
Nov 10 20:07:12 <alterego> default is com.nokia _|Nix|_ that goes for basically everything in maemo
Nov 10 20:07:17 <kaltsi> oops, minus bedboi
Nov 10 20:07:22 <alterego> kaltsi, thanks :)
Nov 10 20:07:43 <_|Nix|_> alterego: Wha ... ? com.nokia? I'm talking about the translation domain ...
Nov 10 20:07:45 <Luria> no guess not
Nov 10 20:08:13 <alterego> Hmm, I thought you meant service.
Nov 10 20:09:34 <_|Nix|_> I've traced the image viewer logical ID to osso-imageviewer.mo
Nov 10 20:09:50 <_|Nix|_> However, osso-imageviewer is not listed anywhere in the .desktop file ...
Nov 10 20:11:07 * DRoBeR is away: show(er) time
Nov 10 20:11:27 <timelyx> have you considered reading: http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/hildon-desktop-0.0.34/libhildondesktop/
Nov 10 20:12:21 <_|Nix|_> UTSL, eh?
Nov 10 20:12:25 <timelyx> ok, who wants to file a bug on libhildondesktop? :)
Nov 10 20:12:31 <timelyx> alterego? :)
Nov 10 20:13:31 <alterego> I don't like filing bugs :P
Nov 10 20:13:48 <timelyx> you think because i've filed more than anyone else in bugzilla.mozilla.org that i do?
Nov 10 20:14:43 <alterego> Heh
Nov 10 20:14:46 <alterego> Obviously :P
Nov 10 20:15:06 <alterego> I think I know why it's not changing your karma timelyx
Nov 10 20:15:30 <alterego> Are you using different email addresses for bugs and your maemo profile?
Nov 10 20:16:11 <timelyx> i don't think so
Nov 10 20:16:27 * timelyx has no idea where such a bug would belong, that's left as an exercise
Nov 10 20:16:33 <alterego> Well, if you are it might be that the karma calculation software is having a hard time finding you ;)
Nov 10 20:16:33 <timelyx> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/hildon-desktop-0.0.34/libhildondesktop/hildon-desktop-item.c#108                                                         "plugin that cant'be destroyed",
Nov 10 20:16:46 <timelyx> alterego: bugzilla.mozilla.org != bugs.maemo.org
Nov 10 20:16:50 <timelyx> and i don't care about karma
Nov 10 20:16:50 <alterego> As they appear to be two completely unrelated systems. There must be some way it knows who you are.
Nov 10 20:17:42 <alterego> Just pointing out why it might not be working :P
Nov 10 20:30:05 <kaltsi> bedboi about converting apps from 3.2 -> 4.0 there's a document about API changes: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/api_changes_between_maemo_3_2_and_maemo_4_0.html
Nov 10 20:30:40 <kaltsi> also the doc about writing new apps was updated: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/how_to_write_new_application_in_maemo_4-0.html
Nov 10 20:40:58 <timelyx> cute
Nov 10 20:41:19 <timelyx> Axel (Password Swordfish) was translated as Alex
Nov 10 20:41:57 <timelyx> they didn't translate Torvalds ...
Nov 10 20:42:14 <timelyx> should Linus be translated Lisun in English?
Nov 10 20:48:39 <db48x> timelyx: heh
Nov 10 20:50:09 <zerojay> timelyx: What are you reading?
Nov 10 20:51:51 <timelyx> finnish subtitles for password swordfish
Nov 10 20:54:00 <kaltsi> those subtitle translators must have some inside prank competition of who can get most faults through
Nov 10 20:59:10 <_|Nix|_> Thanks for thie idea, timelyx ... I found "X-Text-Domain=...", but that only works with Chinook-and-later hildon-desktop ... I guess Gregale and Bora users will not benefit from localized .desktop files :o(
Nov 10 21:04:45 <timelyx> kaltsi: from reviewing bug reports for itos2008, i think the finns are pretty clear against most western translations
Nov 10 21:04:56 <timelyx> their only competition would be the russians
Nov 10 21:05:27 <timelyx> for people who object: *i* filed the bug about finnish, and it was shipped w/ 2008
Nov 10 21:05:39 <timelyx> oh, and i don't speak Finnish
Nov 10 21:05:55 <timelyx> and for people who object to that, i enrolled in a class last week :)
Nov 10 21:06:15 <tko> timelyx: umm, you're saying finns are against having stuff translated?
Nov 10 21:06:22 <timelyx> tko: yes
Nov 10 21:06:26 <timelyx> as are the russians
Nov 10 21:06:29 <timelyx> they don't bother filing bugs
Nov 10 21:06:37 <timelyx> but, no, that's not really what i'm saying :)
Nov 10 21:07:00 <kaltsi> hmm I was talking about movie translations.. :)
Nov 10 21:07:01 <timelyx> tko: and no, i didn't actually say that
Nov 10 21:07:16 <timelyx> i said that the translators are in favor of piss poor translations
Nov 10 21:07:27 <timelyx> and seem to do a good job of getting their's published
Nov 10 21:07:29 <_|Nix|_> What ?!
Nov 10 21:07:46 <tko> I generally ignore movie translations anywa
Nov 10 21:07:47 <tko> y
Nov 10 21:07:55 <timelyx> heh
Nov 10 21:10:46 <tko> swordfish is humorous on other levels as well, translations is the least of its problems :)
Nov 10 21:11:52 <tko> reminds me of "this is unix! I know this!"
Nov 10 21:12:19 * timelyx chuckles
Nov 10 21:12:27 <timelyx> it was irix, right?
Nov 10 21:12:29 <_|Nix|_> Woah! On 770, the translation domain for all applications was that of maemo-af-desktop?
Nov 10 21:13:03 <timelyx> _|Nix|_: i'm way too lazy to ask my computer at work
Nov 10 21:13:11 <timelyx> why ask things at >11pm on a saturday night?
Nov 10 21:13:36 * _|Nix|_ is looking at the code on stage: menu_item = gtk_image_menu_item_new_with_label(_(application_name));
Nov 10 21:14:18 <_|Nix|_> Trying to get localized menu entries for Pidginon < Chinook.
Nov 10 21:14:21 <tko> IIRC hildon-desktop is one of the better documented sources. it doesn't mention such thing in the docs?
Nov 10 21:14:40 <_|Nix|_> hildon-desktop did not exist in N770, AFAIK.
Nov 10 21:15:02 <tko> well, true, it's been rewritten twice since
Nov 10 21:15:11 <_|Nix|_> tko: I found X-Text-Domain=<text-domain> for Chinook, but it doesn't work for Bora ...
Nov 10 21:15:11 <timelyx> only twice? not bad :)
Nov 10 21:15:14 <disq> timeless: ballmer peak.
Nov 10 21:15:23 <timelyx> disq: eh?
Nov 10 21:15:34 <disq> reason to ask things at >11pm on a saturday night
Nov 10 21:16:17 <timelyx> i don't drink
Nov 10 21:16:29 <timelyx> and i try to avoid ssh'ing to work on weekends
Nov 10 21:17:15 <_|Nix|_> Yep ... sure enough ... maemo-af-desktop.mo:1433:imag_ap_image_viewer_name ... wow ...
Nov 10 21:17:33 <_|Nix|_> Hmmm, but also osso-imageviewer.mo:761:imag_ap_image_viewer_name
Nov 10 21:17:45 <_|Nix|_> Still ...
Nov 10 21:19:14 <timelyx> right, the app version is for its app title
Nov 10 21:19:24 <timelyx> the other is for the task navigator item
Nov 10 21:19:39 <alterego> Heh
Nov 10 21:20:42 <timelyx> oops
Nov 10 21:20:50 <timelyx> they translated Axel correctly later
Nov 10 21:21:12 <timelyx> when they declared him dead :)
Nov 10 21:21:19 <alterego> Any resources on libhildondesktop for creating applets?
Nov 10 21:21:23 * tko didn't even notice
Nov 10 21:24:24 <alterego> Okay, might be on to something now :)
Nov 10 21:37:13 * DRoBeR is away: Hell ain't no bad place to be... =)
Nov 10 21:40:14 <smackpotato> .
Nov 10 22:01:11 <timelyx> tko: i think my favorite is ""even i can't break through the firewall""
Nov 10 22:01:21 <disq> lol
Nov 10 22:03:43 <Robdgreat> wb ChanServ :]
Nov 10 22:04:27 <disq> power hug.
Nov 10 22:05:08 <pickl1> does anyone feel like giving me a hand getting a simple helloworld running under scratchbox please?
Nov 10 22:05:33 <pickl1> I get the following error:  D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id": No such file or directory
Nov 10 22:07:31 <pickl1> I'm using the example from http://maemo4mobile.garage.maemo.org/
Nov 10 22:12:30 <timelyx> strange, there's no such file on my device :)
Nov 10 22:16:43 <pickl1> i'm using run-standalone.sh ./helloworld to launch the app - does that make any difference?
Nov 10 22:16:59 <timelyx> it shouldn't
Nov 10 22:17:26 <timelyx> is dbus running?
Nov 10 22:17:34 <pickl1> how do I tell?
Nov 10 22:17:35 <timelyx> i have /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --session
Nov 10 22:17:40 <timelyx> ps aux|grep dbus
Nov 10 22:18:05 <timelyx> i also have /usr/bin/bme-dbus-proxy -N
Nov 10 22:18:40 <pickl1> i can see /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system
Nov 10 22:18:49 * timelyx shrugs
Nov 10 22:18:52 * timelyx doesn
Nov 10 22:18:57 * timelyx doesn't speak dbus
Nov 10 22:19:25 <pickl1> are there any good examples anywhere I can use to check my sdk setup?
Nov 10 22:19:47 * timelyx shrugs
Nov 10 22:19:54 <kulve> pickl1: usually I don't try to run anything on scratchbox, easier to copy it to the device, and run there
Nov 10 22:20:19 <timelyx> kulve: how many n810 devices have you bought?
Nov 10 22:20:23 * timelyx kicks kulve
Nov 10 22:20:28 <pickl1> that means I have to wait for it to arrive though...
Nov 10 22:20:35 <timelyx> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/search?string=machine-id&find=dbus
Nov 10 22:20:45 <timelyx> that's what mxr has to say about chinook/dbus
Nov 10 22:21:30 <timelyx> oh brother
Nov 10 22:21:32 <timelyx> ok, sorry
Nov 10 22:21:37 <timelyx> there's some duplication in dbus
Nov 10 22:21:58 <timelyx> i messed up the cross reference generation
Nov 10 22:22:43 <timelyx> you can switch to sardine to read it...
Nov 10 22:23:30 <pickl1> i didn't even realise i was trying to use it :-/
Nov 10 22:24:09 <kulve> running anything complex stuff on sb with qemu is just pain. But have fun.
Nov 10 22:25:31 <pickl1> i'm not using qemu - just installed the chinook sdk on ubuntu and trying to get *anything* to run.
Nov 10 22:25:41 <pickl1> I am having fun though :)
Nov 10 22:25:51 <kulve> arm target, or x86?
Nov 10 22:25:56 <pickl1> x86
Nov 10 22:26:05 <kulve> ok, that's a bit less pain..
Nov 10 22:26:13 <pickl1> thats reassuring
Nov 10 22:26:35 <kulve> have you started the environment? With af-sb-init.sh?
Nov 10 22:26:59 <pickl1> yes - i can see hildon desktop in my xephyr window, so thats all good
Nov 10 22:27:42 <kulve> dbus-uuidgen creates the missing machine-id, iirc
Nov 10 22:28:05 <kulve> but it doesn't sound correct that you would need to create it by yourself..
Nov 10 22:28:46 <kaltsi> pickl1 I got the hello world from there working
Nov 10 22:29:17 <pickl1> dbus-uuidgen creates a uuid to the console, but i still get the same error
Nov 10 22:29:32 <kulve> copy it to that machine-id file
Nov 10 22:29:46 <kaltsi> I didn't need to do anything like that..
Nov 10 22:29:46 <kulve> it doesn't need anything else, it's just a unique id for the computer
Nov 10 22:29:46 <pickl1> kaltsi, did you do anything special?
Nov 10 22:30:01 <kaltsi> I installed the final chinook sdk today and just tried this..
Nov 10 22:30:21 <kaltsi> I took the helloworld sources from the link provided in maemo4mobile
Nov 10 22:31:04 <kaltsi> so nothing special I guess
Nov 10 22:33:00 <kaltsi> how did you compile your hello world?
Nov 10 22:33:35 <kaltsi> the provided sources had the autotools magic.. I had to do autoreconf -i and then run ./configure
Nov 10 22:35:18 <pickl1> got it working now - i had to manually create the machine-id file and put the output of dbus-uuidgen into it
Nov 10 22:35:27 <pickl1> thanks guys
Nov 10 22:35:50 <pickl1> could this be anything to do with upgrading from the beta sdk?
Nov 10 22:36:14 <kulve> I have the beta too (arm target), and no machine-id..
Nov 10 22:36:17 <kulve> but now I'm off
Nov 10 22:36:52 <pickl1> thanks again for your help
Nov 10 22:36:53 <kaltsi> I don't have a machine-id either but didn't get any dbus complaints
Nov 10 22:37:14 <pickl1> i created the source files manually and didn't use autotools
Nov 10 22:37:27 <pickl1> so maybe thats it
Nov 10 22:37:32 <kaltsi> yea could be
Nov 10 22:37:51 <pickl1> anyway, at least i can play around a bit now
Nov 10 23:18:09 <disq> anybody interested in installing kagu in chinook and testing the player functionalities for us? so that we can verify and upload the deb to chinook-extras
Nov 10 23:43:02 <alterego> Cool, adding desktop applets to ruby-maemo will be super easy :)
Nov 10 23:45:25 <p|> samples samples samples pls :D
Nov 10 23:45:32 <alterego> Of course.
Nov 10 23:45:40 <alterego> Once I write the bindings :P
Nov 10 23:45:46 <alterego> Well, the loader.
Nov 10 23:46:19 <alterego> The cool thing about this is. You don't even need to install ruby, you can just install libruby and ruby-maemo.
Nov 10 23:46:54 <p|> hehe
Nov 10 23:46:58 <p|> good good
Nov 10 23:47:28 <alterego> If I can use the extras repo, It'll give me a opportunity to modularise ruby-maemo a lot more. So you wont have to install everything just to run an applet etc.
Nov 10 23:47:53 <alterego> I should probably describe the packaging standard for ruby maemo apps.
Nov 10 23:48:59 <rhykin> i wonder if os2008 will reduce performance on the n800
Nov 10 23:49:18 <alterego> It's supposed to increase performance :P
Nov 10 23:49:44 <p|> +70mhz ? :)
Nov 10 23:50:05 <alterego> Well, plus scaling and 70Mhz
Nov 10 23:50:21 <alterego> Flash has been optimized.
Nov 10 23:50:36 <alterego> I'm sure it runs just fine.
Nov 10 23:50:51 <rhykin> wait
Nov 10 23:50:58 <p|> hope that autoscaling doesn't make system unresponsive...
Nov 10 23:51:00 <rhykin> with os2008 convert the processor to 4000mhz?
Nov 10 23:51:05 <rhykin> 400*
Nov 10 23:51:05 <rhykin> will*
Nov 10 23:51:10 * rhykin is eating ;)
Nov 10 23:51:12 <p|> si rhykin
Nov 10 23:51:13 <alterego> Yes, 4Ghz performace ^_^
Nov 10 23:51:29 <rhykin> odd
Nov 10 23:51:39 <rhykin> why habvent they just doen it alreqy
Nov 10 23:51:46 <rhykin> for os2007
Nov 10 23:52:04 <alterego> Because they were developing their power management scheme I'd imagine.
Nov 10 23:52:20 <alterego> Maybe there was an issue with the hardware at those speeds they've solved.
Nov 10 23:52:38 <rhykin> odd
Nov 10 23:52:42 <alterego> Not really.
Nov 10 23:52:59 <disq> also because they don't want to run QA twice and delay chinook
Nov 10 23:53:00 <rhykin> so is the n800 underclocked?
Nov 10 23:53:08 <alterego> There are a lot more oddities than power management and CPU clock speed :P
Nov 10 23:53:25 <rhykin> i assume
Nov 10 23:53:26 <alterego> rhykin, check the spec.
Nov 10 23:53:34 <alterego> OMAP 2420
Nov 10 23:53:51 <rhykin> i knew it was 330mhz, but i didnt think it was underckocked'
Nov 10 23:54:51 <alterego> Hmm .. I dunno.
Nov 10 23:54:58 <alterego> It's not really that interesting to me.
Nov 10 23:55:43 <milhouse> 330mhz is the optimum speed for omap2420 - at 400mhz the dsp actually runs more slowly
Nov 10 23:56:08 <p|> i found my n800 very fast compared to my htc tytn (400mhz)
Nov 10 23:56:12 <rhykin> there, now im done eating
Nov 10 23:56:42 <milhouse> i guess with various power management improvements it became possible to push the cpu harder when it is needed and still end up saving power in the long run
Nov 10 23:57:30 <rhykin> interesting
Nov 10 23:57:35 <milhouse> nokia believe it is better (in terms of power usage) to run the cpu faster for a brief period than run it slower for longer
Nov 10 23:57:46 <rhykin> guess i will upgrade to os'08 when it comes out :)
Nov 10 23:57:47 <zerojay> Probably allows dynamic speed switching.
Nov 10 23:58:17 <alterego> Why wouldn't you upgrade?
Nov 10 23:58:35 <rhykin> because i didnt think it would improve the processor speed
Nov 10 23:58:42 <rhykin> and theres no programs out from developers yet
Nov 10 23:58:44 <rhykin> so i was gonna wait
Nov 10 23:58:51 <milhouse> p| - the operating system may have something to do with that! :)
Nov 10 23:59:29 <milhouse> rhykin - probably going to be glitches for the first few days...
Nov 11 00:00:04 <rhykin> i assume we wouldnt be able to use os07 apps, correct?
Nov 11 00:00:13 <rhykin> theres a lot of software changes
Nov 11 00:00:56 <milhouse> yes, i would expect most os2007 apps to be incompatible with os2008 particularly gui apps. command line apps may still work though
Nov 11 00:01:13 <milhouse> ^ that's just a guess on my part about command line apps :)
Nov 11 00:01:25 <zerojay> There's a lot of porting work going on, so it might be less of a problem than we might expect.
Nov 11 00:01:30 <zerojay> But we'll see.
Nov 11 00:03:07 <rhykin> man
Nov 11 00:03:14 <rhykin> so far i see no benefit to the n810
Nov 11 00:03:20 <rhykin> except the $200 keyboard :P
Nov 11 00:03:38 <zerojay> The screen.
Nov 11 00:03:51 <zerojay> Transreflective and apparently glass.
Nov 11 00:03:52 <milhouse> GPS?
Nov 11 00:03:52 <_Monkey> i think GPS is nice, though
Nov 11 00:03:59 <zerojay> GPS, yeah.. that'll be nice.
Nov 11 00:04:08 <zerojay> Especially nice once more apps are location aware.
Nov 11 00:04:14 <milhouse> smaller?  (but heavier, and better looking)
Nov 11 00:04:31 <milhouse> did anyone find out what the n810 easter egg is/was?
Nov 11 00:04:36 <p|> 'night all !
Nov 11 00:04:46 <milhouse> 'night
Nov 11 00:04:49 <zerojay> The only things I'll miss from the N800 is the rotating camera and the two SD slots.
Nov 11 00:05:04 <milhouse> you'll miss the rotating camera? imho it's a waste of space
Nov 11 00:05:14 <zerojay> I used it quite a lot.
Nov 11 00:05:15 <milhouse> two sd slots - agreed :(
Nov 11 00:05:37 <milhouse> thought the image was mostly unusable - really poor quality, or duff software not sure which
Nov 11 00:05:58 <zerojay> The camera was poor quality, but just having it always with me was enough reason to use it.
Nov 11 00:06:02 <milhouse> i appeared as an orange blob, and i'm not orange
Nov 11 00:06:44 <zerojay> milhouse: How about this orange blob? http://flickr.com/photos/zerojay/1729497759/
Nov 11 00:07:29 <rhykin> lol
Nov 11 00:07:29 <milhouse> very similar! :)
Nov 11 00:07:31 <rhykin> hat the
Nov 11 00:07:37 <rhykin> what the*
Nov 11 00:07:42 <zerojay> A cop on the corner near work.
Nov 11 00:07:45 <zerojay> At about noon.
Nov 11 00:07:52 <zerojay> Too bad he wasn't there an hour later.
Nov 11 00:08:12 <milhouse> Was he hoping to blend in?
Nov 11 00:08:25 <zerojay> He might have been able to stop this: http://flickr.com/photos/zerojay/1729212594/
Nov 11 00:09:34 <rhykin> i wonder if os2008 will support eap-tls
Nov 11 00:09:44 <rhykin> if the certificate manager had some work :)
Nov 11 00:10:05 <zerojay> I'm half tempted to take all the phones we have at work and just dump them on people and take pictures of them.
Nov 11 00:10:16 <zerojay> like "help, I'm drowning in Nokiaaaaasssss!!!"
Nov 11 00:10:34 <zerojay> Not sure if 350 phones would be enough though.
Nov 11 00:13:13 <unique311> http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1710265
Nov 11 00:13:17 <unique311> please view
Nov 11 00:14:46 <zerojay> hah
Nov 11 00:16:18 <unique311> i get those in my yahoo mail  alot.
Nov 11 00:31:24 <ol_schoola> milhouse: you think the rotating camera could be removed and a 2.5 mm video jack be put in place of it?
Nov 11 00:39:52 <milhouse> i guess anything is possible... a good chance you might end up with a dead N800 though :)
Nov 11 00:41:21 <l7> hmm, a 2.5mm video jack is an interesting idea...
Nov 11 00:41:39 <l7> how much video can you fit in a 8gb card though?
Nov 11 00:41:45 <l7> or even a 32gb one
Nov 11 00:56:04 <ol_schoola> sorry, i was afk. i want to use it with a chip camera mounted on  the end of a stick as an inspection camera
Nov 11 00:56:34 <ol_schoola> the usb port won't do host controller so i'm currently screwed
Nov 11 00:56:51 <ol_schoola> i was going to hack apart a webcam
Nov 11 01:02:20 <alterego> You can enable USB OTG mode.
Nov 11 01:03:03 <alterego> As far as a 2.5m video jave.
Nov 11 01:03:06 <alterego> ~jack.
Nov 11 01:03:07 <infobot> A console cd-ripper written in python. URL: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/arne/jack/
Nov 11 01:03:33 <alterego> That'll never work. I'm guessing the camera is cmos ..
Nov 11 02:11:37 <rhykin> i wish i could play with the sdk
Nov 11 02:11:47 <rhykin> but my main computer fried
Nov 11 02:11:53 <rhykin> so i had to install windows on my linux box
Nov 11 02:12:03 <rhykin> and use it as my primary :(
Nov 11 02:16:30 <astro76> you could use vmware
Nov 11 02:34:39 <rhys> UKMP download gives a 500 internal server error from maemo.org
Nov 11 02:36:55 <rhys> can anyone make sure it isnt just something with my network?
Nov 11 02:37:03 <rhys> im assuming 500 error isnt my fault
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 11 02:59:57 2007