**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 11 02:59:57 2007
Nov 11 03:02:49 <FMz> Hrmm..  When i try to make a video call from my n800 to a PC with Google Talk, it says that the PC side doesn't support video...
Nov 11 03:08:43 <astro76> I've read that it only works n800 to n800, not sure really
Nov 11 03:15:37 <FMz> Hrmm
Nov 11 03:22:42 <FMz> I swear this thing was touted as being able to make n800 to PC video calls.
Nov 11 03:23:57 <l7>                                                                                              [B[Bwhat thing?
Nov 11 03:24:25 <FMz> n800
Nov 11 03:25:35 <lord_moonraker> Greetings all
Nov 11 03:25:51 <FMz> I bought it now so I could video chat with my girlfriend while I am in Denver
Nov 11 03:26:04 <l7> does it work?
Nov 11 03:27:07 <FMz> Apparently video chat only works between 2 nSeries... and I'm sure not going to buy her one.
Nov 11 03:27:13 <l7> oh
Nov 11 03:27:18 <l7> can't you skype her?
Nov 11 03:27:46 <FMz> Yeah, but video still doesnt work
Nov 11 03:29:33 <l7> hrm, is there something wrong with the n800's skype client?
Nov 11 03:29:34 <FMz> Kinda feelin gypped on that
Nov 11 03:29:47 <FMz> I dont believe so
Nov 11 03:29:57 <l7> it just doesn't do video yet?
Nov 11 03:30:33 <FMz> Yup
Nov 11 03:31:21 <l7> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070711-first-look-skype-for-the-nokia-n800-internet-tablet.html
Nov 11 03:31:32 <l7> The only thing missing from the N800 Skype client is support for video chat using the N800's built-in video camera. Perusal of the skype-ui package's dependencies on the N800 reveals that it uses the Farsight audio/video communications framework, which means that video support could potentially be added in a future update.
Nov 11 03:33:05 <l7> Is there anyway to have video chat between the N800 and a PC? I read
Nov 11 03:33:06 <l7> Nokia Internet Call Invitation (Beta) was removed with the latest firmware (not that I had any luck with that)
Nov 11 03:33:11 <l7> http://tabletblog.com/2007/07/skype-review-on-nokia-n800.html
Nov 11 03:33:13 <l7> interesting
Nov 11 03:44:05 <lord_moonraker> skype doesnt have a video in linux till now, they just got out with a video linux version
Nov 11 03:48:34 <Abulafia> is there a higher cap battery that fits in the n800?
Nov 11 03:49:34 <FMz_> So, Skype video desktop to n800 works?
Nov 11 03:58:35 <lord_moonraker> they havent released  maemo version yet
Nov 11 04:00:25 <lord_moonraker> http://www.skype.com/intl/en/download/skype/linux/beta/
Nov 11 04:01:43 <lord_moonraker> if you are desperate for video, i think there is some version of a chat client called gizmo project that does video
Nov 11 04:02:30 <FMz_> I can't seem to find the right versions of Gizmo... everyone on the forum is talking about almost getting it working with Gizmo 4... but I can't find a Gizmo version 4 anywhere, all I can find is 3.1
Nov 11 04:02:59 <FMz_> I'm not desperate... just a little disappointed that I can't use this in the way I rushed to get it for.
Nov 11 04:03:44 <rhykin> astro76: what distro do you recommend
Nov 11 04:03:46 <rhykin> rather
Nov 11 04:03:53 <rhykin> what distro of linux does anyone recommend
Nov 11 04:03:57 <rhykin> with the maemo sdk
Nov 11 04:04:02 <lord_moonraker> ubuntu
Nov 11 04:04:02 <_Monkey> it has been said that ubuntu is alright
Nov 11 04:04:29 <lord_moonraker> i had been disappointed that video to pc's where not there
Nov 11 04:05:32 <lord_moonraker> but its other uses it has for me, far outweighs the lack of video in chat & jerky youtube video
Nov 11 04:08:13 <FMz_> What do you use it for most?
Nov 11 04:09:53 <lord_moonraker> keeping up to date on the net, chat, maps/gps, music, watching video's using mplayer, writing notes at office during conferences, recording audio
Nov 11 04:10:40 <lord_moonraker> and best of all hacking - (pyaxelwii.garage.maemo.org)
Nov 11 04:11:09 <DeLeOn> hello, I'm new on this of maemo, i'm installing chinook, I got selected for the n810 device program, and I can't wait to have the n810 and merge fully into this... :D
Nov 11 04:11:21 <FMz_> Liking the sound of that heh
Nov 11 04:11:27 <zerojay> You're installing Chinook? How?
Nov 11 04:11:38 <DeLeOn> well... the SDK
Nov 11 04:11:42 <lord_moonraker> hey cool, DeLeOn, welcome to the club!
Nov 11 04:12:02 <lord_moonraker> are u starting on some project?
Nov 11 04:12:44 <FMz_> Does this thing support .bashrc exports?
Nov 11 04:13:06 <DeLeOn> lord_moonraker: thanks... I hope to be here very often (hopefully helping and not doing a lot of questions)
Nov 11 04:14:18 <DeLeOn> lord_moonraker: I'm just beginning with this, so I don't know, I first need to have the N810 in my hands to see what can I do... I hope to help with some porting, I thought of porting "cheese" the "photoboot" clone for gnome
Nov 11 04:14:59 <shackan> mm, there's a camera app already
Nov 11 04:15:53 <itnomad> Sorry for the newbie question. If i use scp from an xterm, I can get a file from my desktop computer to my n800. pwd reveals I am in /home/user. I can't see any other folders than MyDocs, apps, and the file that I copied. How do I get the file into the Documents folder, or maybe on to mmc1?
Nov 11 04:16:00 <DeLeOn> shackan: mmm then I'll think in another stuff hehehe...
Nov 11 04:17:50 <lord_moonraker> hmm ya, there is one, too bad they didnt put in a 2MP camera in N810 :(
Nov 11 04:19:05 <lord_moonraker> itnomad, the folder is  MyDocs/.documents
Nov 11 04:19:26 <lord_moonraker> or /media/mmc1 or mmc2
Nov 11 04:20:27 <rhykin> how can i install ubuntu on vmware
Nov 11 04:20:33 <rhykin> which vmware would i need to get?
Nov 11 04:20:40 <itnomad> lord_moonraker: thanks, I found those, but I can't get to the file from the "Desktop". It doesn't show up in the file manager.
Nov 11 04:20:48 <itnomad> only from the xterm.
Nov 11 04:21:34 <lord_moonraker> well copy the file to /media/mmc1 and check memory card folder?
Nov 11 04:23:04 <DeLeOn> by the way, does someone here knows something about "Aricent"? is an india company that does software for mobiles
Nov 11 04:23:06 <itnomad> lord_moonraker: thanks, that did it.
Nov 11 04:23:17 <lord_moonraker> k
Nov 11 04:23:19 <itnomad> I was drawing a blank
Nov 11 04:24:28 <lord_moonraker> aricent? i think it was Hughes/flextronics
Nov 11 04:25:00 <DeLeOn> lord_moonraker: yes, something like that... is that they opened an office in my city, and they are hiring,... and made me an offer...
Nov 11 04:25:56 <DeLeOn> but still don't know if i'll take it
Nov 11 04:27:08 <lord_moonraker> oh r u in b'lore?
Nov 11 04:27:20 <DeLeOn> lord_moonraker: no, Monterrey Mexico
Nov 11 04:28:09 <DeLeOn> we are getting invaded by india companies, hehehe sasken, aricent and wipro came here in the last years...
Nov 11 04:30:13 <lord_moonraker> : ) I am invading too
Nov 11 04:30:47 <DeLeOn> lord_moonraker: where r u from? india?
Nov 11 04:32:14 <lord_moonraker> yup
Nov 11 04:32:43 <DeLeOn> lord_moonraker: working for any of this companies?
Nov 11 04:32:56 <rhykin> i figured it out
Nov 11 04:34:43 <rhykin> is there a way to install apps to your internal memory card
Nov 11 04:34:45 <rhykin> instead of like
Nov 11 04:34:53 <rhykin> on the internal memory itself
Nov 11 04:35:57 <itnomad> Monterrey Mexico...no kidding!
Nov 11 04:36:30 <elb> I just roasted a mexican coffee, for whatever that's worth ;-)
Nov 11 04:37:16 <Masca> elb: are you in every channel over freenode and oftc ??
Nov 11 04:37:32 <elb> haha
Nov 11 04:37:35 <elb> no ;-)
Nov 11 04:37:46 <elb> I just joined this one, as I'll be getting an 810 soon, and I hope to do some development
Nov 11 04:37:55 <Masca> me to =)
Nov 11 04:37:55 <elb> (Pidgin, among other things, of course)
Nov 11 04:38:25 <Masca> elb: pidgin is ported on maemo
Nov 11 04:38:35 <DeLeOn> itnomad: you are in monterrey?
Nov 11 04:38:47 <lord_moonraker> rhykin: what happened r u low on space?
Nov 11 04:38:57 <Masca> but if you need help in something with pidgin+nokia810 I can help you
Nov 11 04:39:32 <lord_moonraker> i think u need to free up space or install /dual boot onto the mmc
Nov 11 04:39:58 <lord_moonraker> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Boot_From_MMC_card
Nov 11 04:40:36 <shackan> elb: pidgin already works great :)
Nov 11 04:40:55 <rhykin> lord_moonraker: i would assume i would at some point ;)
Nov 11 04:40:57 <lord_moonraker> deleon: no tata
Nov 11 04:42:00 <Masca> elb: told you ;-)
Nov 11 04:42:01 <elb> Masca, shackan: yes, I have worked with the porter (_|Nix|_)
Nov 11 04:42:20 <elb> Pidgin on Linux already runs, too -- that doesn't mean it's *done*
Nov 11 04:42:29 <Masca> ohh _|Nix|_ is everywhere to =S
Nov 11 04:42:49 <shackan> mm, I don't know what's missing
Nov 11 04:43:54 <Masca> a wireless crack ;-) to be connected on every wireless we touch
Nov 11 04:44:30 <elb> nix's work has been mostly UI fixes
Nov 11 04:44:42 <elb> since Pidgin really wasn't designed with a finger-touch screen in mind
Nov 11 04:45:02 <lord_moonraker> deleon: what do u work in? c, or scripts?
Nov 11 04:45:03 <DeLe0n> yes, i was talking with Masca about that, do you think its possible to make "aircrack" work on the N810?
Nov 11 04:45:36 <Masca> lord_moonraker: we work in C
Nov 11 04:45:38 <DeLe0n> lord_moonraker: mergin into C...
Nov 11 04:46:08 <Masca> yes, he is a noob =P
Nov 11 04:46:18 * Masca is a noob to
Nov 11 04:46:59 <Masca> s/to/too/
Nov 11 04:47:30 <shackan> aircrack is going to kill the poor battery tough :D
Nov 11 04:48:02 <Masca> shackan: but will give you internet acess
Nov 11 04:48:11 <DeLe0n> shackan: but it would be nice to have access "everywhere"
Nov 11 04:48:21 <shackan> *cough*
Nov 11 04:48:49 <shackan> good luck breaking WEAP then
Nov 11 04:48:59 <lord_moonraker> k I was trying to get some devs for new progs for 810
Nov 11 04:49:01 <rubiks> weap?
Nov 11 04:49:03 <shackan> they're becoming very common
Nov 11 04:49:25 <shackan> eap
Nov 11 04:50:08 <dragorn> unless someone has rewritten the wireless drivers (which afaik they haven't), you won't be able to do injection, which makes aircrack pretty useless
Nov 11 04:50:08 <dragorn> ptw would be feasible on that processor probably, but without injection... no.
Nov 11 04:50:31 <DeLe0n> :S...
Nov 11 04:51:28 <lord_moonraker> these seems to be enough unencrypted wifi's around it seems to get u connected anywhere
Nov 11 04:51:33 <shackan> so unless you live in a country like finland, forget about "everywhere" :)
Nov 11 04:51:37 <Masca> so, we need some wireless drivers rewrite ...
Nov 11 04:51:58 <Masca> shackan: finland ?
Nov 11 04:51:59 <_Monkey> i think finland is closed in July due to holidays. Please come back later ;)
Nov 11 04:52:12 <lord_moonraker> i.e. in us
Nov 11 04:52:26 <shackan> Masca: just to say a place with a big wifi penetration
Nov 11 04:52:42 <DeLe0n> shackan: i know... but here in Mexico we have just like 1 hotspot in the whole country haha
Nov 11 04:53:23 <Masca> haha
Nov 11 04:53:29 <shackan> well, at least with the gps you can find it quicker :P
Nov 11 04:54:08 <DeLe0n> masca: we could go to the macroplaza when we get the N810's to show off... theres a hotspot there hahaha
Nov 11 04:54:40 <Masca> DeLe0n: really ??  in a restaurant or on the plaza ?
Nov 11 04:54:57 <shackan> yeah, show it off, best way to get robbed :D
Nov 11 04:55:01 <DeLe0n> masca: in the whole place... i think cause of the gov offices
Nov 11 04:55:19 <Masca> ohh  one thing to thank the gov
Nov 11 04:55:26 <DeLe0n> shackan: they would thought we stole the N810's...  hahaha
Nov 11 05:01:09 <DeLe0n> g2g chat u later...
Nov 11 05:01:14 <DeLe0n> goin out for beer
Nov 11 05:01:20 <Masca> yes, beer time
Nov 11 05:02:01 <rhykin> heh
Nov 11 05:11:30 <ol_schoola> whoa. sandisk ultra II 2Gb mini sd is 13 pounds in UK and 50-79 dollars US. unbelievable
Nov 11 05:18:34 <lord_moonraker> hmm, i got the pqi 2gb for 15$
Nov 11 05:28:32 <ol_schoola> ah, the one i was looking at is supposedly wicked fast   http://www.valuemedia.co.uk/minisd_chart.htm
Nov 11 05:29:31 <ol_schoola> that helps a lot when offloading photos (nikon raw) to the laptop
Nov 11 05:31:00 <ol_schoola> i'm hoping an SD->CF adapter won't bottleneck. we'll see. if it works, i can do on-the-fly edits without the heavy as macbook in my backpack
Nov 11 05:31:10 <ol_schoola> s/as/ass
Nov 11 05:31:51 <ol_schoola> one (miniSD) card to rule them all
Nov 11 05:32:58 <lord_moonraker> i hope the mini sd cards become cheaper soon,
Nov 11 05:33:26 <metatron> sigh, I was ambivalent, but I think I'm liking the n800 over the n810.
Nov 11 05:34:00 <lord_moonraker> n
Nov 11 05:34:14 <lord_moonraker> n810 do come with 2gb
Nov 11 05:37:32 <ol_schoola> i'm kinda leary of the 810's cap at 10Gb. map data seems to be HUGE and i want to carry some music with lots of space for photos
Nov 11 05:38:09 <ol_schoola> i've only had 800 for a week so i'm not certain how it's going to load up under normal use yet
Nov 11 05:40:36 <lord_moonraker> be wary of the media crawler, it starts searching for media files and use up cpu
Nov 11 05:41:01 <lord_moonraker> trying to update its database
Nov 11 05:43:59 <ol_schoola> media crawler? the built-in media center?
Nov 11 05:44:48 <lord_moonraker> ya, i think its metacrrawler
Nov 11 05:45:03 <ol_schoola> shall i go looking for a daemon to slay?
Nov 11 05:45:27 <captlloyd> Hmm, 2 more weeks until I get my N810
Nov 11 05:45:37 <captlloyd> what to do until then?
Nov 11 05:46:20 <ol_schoola> hah. i've been waiting forever for a wide angle f2.8 lens from nikon so i bought a n800 to distract me
Nov 11 05:46:32 <captlloyd> :)
Nov 11 05:47:10 <ol_schoola> bit off more than i can chew! my mythtv systemj is learing at me in the corner of the room, prolly feels neglected :)
Nov 11 05:48:03 <ol_schoola> s/lear/leer
Nov 11 05:49:48 <captlloyd> I looked into getting Internet access by using my mobile phone as a modem.
Nov 11 05:50:15 <captlloyd> I don't think there's a way I can do it here for less than $60/month
Nov 11 05:50:27 <captlloyd> at least there's wifi most places I go
Nov 11 06:20:06 <timelyx> ol_schoola: fwiw the map data i wanted w/ maemo mapper fit on a 1gb card
Nov 11 06:20:32 <timelyx> the n810 street maps for usa are something like 1.5g combined (east+west)
Nov 11 06:24:46 <metatron> are there china maps?
Nov 11 06:26:42 <timelyx> now that's a question i haven't seen before
Nov 11 06:27:05 * timelyx gets a binary limitation of liability
Nov 11 06:27:10 <timelyx> followed by a binary eula
Nov 11 06:28:35 <timelyx> note that your map options may vary, as they aren't built into the device, it has to ask the internet for the list
Nov 11 06:29:17 <timelyx> today the closest it has are turkey and the middle east. no russia/india/australia/japan/china
Nov 11 06:29:44 <timelyx> please remember that the device is not targeted at china
Nov 11 06:29:57 <timelyx> we aren't shipping chinese (or japanese or korean or thai) input methods
Nov 11 06:30:14 <timelyx> the device doesn't go through qa for any such languages (closest is cyrillic/russian, and that isn't close)
Nov 11 06:30:45 <timelyx> afaik we don't ship fonts for any of those (you can of course download fonts, someone may even make packages to help you)
Nov 11 06:31:03 <timelyx> there's also no guarantee that installing fonts won't panic/root/reboot your device :)
Nov 11 06:31:14 <timelyx> (fonts tend to do that sort of thing to desktop os's :)
Nov 11 06:34:44 <timelyx> heh, they don't have map coverage south of the border (mexico, south america)
Nov 11 06:35:05 <zoran> timelyx, is there any change in servers configuration, regarding access privilage?
Nov 11 06:35:18 <timelyx> ?
Nov 11 06:35:39 <zoran> I have strange error trying to reach servers
Nov 11 06:35:46 <timelyx> ?
Nov 11 06:36:07 <zoran> some 10 days ago I stopped to get files via browser and app manager on 770
Nov 11 06:36:12 <timelyx> are you using ip over avian carrier?
Nov 11 06:36:24 <zoran> error mess was "authorization request" etc
Nov 11 06:36:30 <zoran> nope
Nov 11 06:36:38 <zoran> domain is "yu"
Nov 11 06:37:03 <zoran> all providers from that domain have no ability to get maemo files
Nov 11 06:37:30 <zoran> I ssh to remote box and get files as it should
Nov 11 06:37:38 <timelyx> sorry, i'm confused
Nov 11 06:37:42 <zoran> me too
Nov 11 06:37:44 <timelyx> give me precise steps to reproduce
Nov 11 06:37:50 <timelyx> you have 5mins, else i'm physically leaving
Nov 11 06:37:59 <zoran> repository/maemo/org/pool/gregale/free/a/apt
Nov 11 06:38:01 <timelyx> (well, i'm physically leaving either way)
Nov 11 06:38:12 <zoran> k
Nov 11 06:38:30 <timelyx> are you saying you're *physically* somewhere and you think it matters?
Nov 11 06:38:38 <zoran> yes
Nov 11 06:38:52 <zoran> I can't refresh app lists on 770
Nov 11 06:39:03 <zoran> can't get new files from servers
Nov 11 06:39:16 <zoran> I filed a bug report
Nov 11 06:39:46 <zoran> do you need traceroute output of my ip address?
Nov 11 06:40:47 <timelyx> i'll take the bug id
Nov 11 06:41:04 <zoran> k
Nov 11 06:41:25 <zoran> web, servers or something liek that
Nov 11 06:43:27 <timelyx> bug numbers should have 4 digits
Nov 11 06:43:43 <zoran> yes, cannot recall now
Nov 11 06:43:47 <zoran> 2...
Nov 11 06:43:55 <zoran> in web section
Nov 11 06:43:59 <timelyx> how about your login?
Nov 11 06:44:06 <zerojay> Click on My Bugs.
Nov 11 06:44:11 <zoran> should I login now?
Nov 11 06:44:17 <zoran> k
Nov 11 06:44:25 <timelyx> zerojay: won't work if it's unco :)
Nov 11 06:44:41 <zerojay> Oh really?
Nov 11 06:44:45 <timelyx> zoran: at this point, you have 1 min to tell me your login name
Nov 11 06:45:16 <zoran> zoran@fooboo.org
Nov 11 06:45:27 <zerojay> 2237
Nov 11 06:46:06 <zerojay> wtf is a "yu" domain?
Nov 11 06:46:14 <zerojay> yu.com or blahblah.yu?
Nov 11 06:46:16 <zoran> former yugoslavia
Nov 11 06:46:32 <timelyx> attach the web page the web browser sees
Nov 11 06:46:37 <timelyx> it should have a footer
Nov 11 06:46:41 <timelyx> footers sometimes are useful
Nov 11 06:46:48 <timelyx> e./g. they might list a proxy server
Nov 11 06:47:16 <zoran> sec
Nov 11 06:47:23 <timelyx> zerojay: can you monitor some of those components and start whacking reporters until they actually give useful reports?
Nov 11 06:47:39 <timelyx> zoran: sorry, time expired. i don't care. but your bug won't improve until you do such things
Nov 11 06:47:53 <zoran> tomorrow
Nov 11 06:47:54 <_Monkey> it has been said that tomorrow is fine, just as the next week and...
Nov 11 06:48:03 <zerojay> timelyx: I'll have my shovel with me.
Nov 11 06:48:34 <zoran> should I give more info?
Nov 11 06:48:45 <zoran> don't want to bother
Nov 11 06:49:33 * timelyx passes zerojay a bucket of aspirin 
Nov 11 06:50:05 <zerojay> The tablets never were released in Japan, were they?
Nov 11 06:50:25 <zoran> timelyx, done
Nov 11 06:50:29 <timelyx> zerojay: correct
Nov 11 06:50:39 <timelyx> zoran: at this point, you're being managed by zerojay
Nov 11 06:51:06 <zerojay> So it's pretty doubtful we're going to see Japanese FM radio frequencies added to the FM radio program. ;)
Nov 11 06:51:28 <timelyx> given that the people who make it are in oulu,fi?
Nov 11 06:51:30 <timelyx> yeah
Nov 11 06:52:56 <lopz> bye
Nov 11 06:53:53 <timelyx> would you expect kanji listings?
Nov 11 06:54:03 <timelyx> because afaik you can't get the listings in French
Nov 11 06:54:48 <zoran> zerojay, enough info for now?
Nov 11 06:54:51 <zerojay> No, this bug was complaining that the FM radio tuner can't tune into Japanese stations because the frequencies used for radio there are different than the EU/US standards.
Nov 11 06:55:10 <zerojay> Even though the chip supports it with a bit flip.
Nov 11 06:55:15 <zerojay> zoran: I'll look in a sec.
Nov 11 06:55:19 <zoran> k
Nov 11 06:56:50 <zerojay> Hmm...
Nov 11 06:57:10 <zerojay> Perhaps Nokia's blocked out countries they knew they didn't sell in...
Nov 11 06:57:26 <zoran> I think so, also
Nov 11 06:57:47 <zoran> I bought it over 4 countries and 7 people
Nov 11 06:58:09 <zerojay> How many .yu domains have you tried it on?
Nov 11 06:58:13 <alp> zerojay: there is a rounding bug in the algorithm the proprietary tuner app uses
Nov 11 06:58:13 <zoran> 2
Nov 11 06:58:31 <alp> zerojay: we don't have the problem in the managed tuner
Nov 11 06:58:40 <zoran> but I need my home provider's domain in usage
Nov 11 06:59:22 <zerojay> Try putting in the .yu domains you tried from as well as a few that did work for you.
Nov 11 06:59:38 <zerojay> alp: "managed tuner"?
Nov 11 06:59:44 <zoran> sbb.co.yu and simfonica.co.yu
Nov 11 06:59:58 <zoran> teh first one is my home domain
Nov 11 07:00:04 <zerojay> zoran: Add them to the bug. Add in just about anything that even remotely could be helpful.
Nov 11 07:00:12 <zoran> k
Nov 11 07:00:27 <zerojay> I was going to say that maybe it was your servers blocking them, but then you probably wouldn't be getting those error messages.
Nov 11 07:00:29 <zoran> error number is 401
Nov 11 07:00:33 <alp> zerojay: when they noticed the FM chip i hacked up a c# tuner app for the N800, it's on http://git.ndesk.org/ somewhere
Nov 11 07:00:48 <zoran> yes, I think nokia changes something
Nov 11 07:01:06 <zerojay> alp: And it works with Japanese frequencies?
Nov 11 07:02:04 <alp> zerojay: i don't think anyone has tried, but the tuner scans at steps that work better in some countrie
Nov 11 07:02:07 <alp> countries
Nov 11 07:02:24 <zerojay> alp: Have you reported this rounding bug?
Nov 11 07:02:56 <alp> zerojay: i have no way to confirm it exists in the proprietary tuner because there's no source code
Nov 11 07:03:05 <alp> so it's just conjecture
Nov 11 07:03:41 <zerojay> And your program doesn't have the same problem?
Nov 11 07:06:53 <alp> zerojay: i think this might have been the fix, http://git.ndesk.org/?p=v4l2-sharp;a=commitdiff;h=94b475d5 -- it's been months, i really don't remember
Nov 11 07:08:39 <zerojay> If you're up to the task, file a bug so that the people with access to the code for the FM tuner can take a look at it.
Nov 11 07:09:30 <alp> zerojay: i think it's more effective to provide open, peer reviewed replacements for proprietary components
Nov 11 07:10:05 <alp> it's difficult to fix a fairly subtle rounding bug like this or even confirm that it exists when you don't have access to the sources
Nov 11 07:10:25 <zoran> zerojay, I filed comments for #2237. something more needed?
Nov 11 07:10:39 <zerojay> alp: Agreed, but you have to understand that Nokia's a company that's been used to years and years of everything being closed off and they were successful with it... they're working on opening up further, give it time.
Nov 11 07:10:54 <zerojay> Also remember that all code has to go through tons of legal crap before it's released as well.
Nov 11 07:11:26 <zerojay> alp: File the bug. Tell them you want to see the code and they might make it happen.
Nov 11 07:11:27 <alp> zerojay: i understand very well. i'm working to provide replacements for the proprietary browser and have hacked on various other cool stuff since Maemo came out ;-)
Nov 11 07:11:48 <zerojay> Well, once IT2008 hits, there won't be a proprietary browser anymore.
Nov 11 07:12:47 <alp> i don't think MicroB is a competent replacement, but i guess i'm highly opinionated ;-)
Nov 11 07:12:55 <zerojay> zoran: I guess that'll work. We'll see.
Nov 11 07:13:05 <zerojay> alp: What's incompetent about it? :)
Nov 11 07:14:44 <zerojay> It's going to be interesting to see how the first official release (all others were beta) as part of IT2008 works out, especially with the +70mhz speed jump.
Nov 11 07:16:20 <zerojay> My only real problem is that it's a little slow and sometimes crashes.
Nov 11 07:16:29 <zerojay> Slower still with Greasemonkey scripts.
Nov 11 07:38:24 <alp> zerojay: sorry, was doing interactivity benchmarks. i think it is a shame to replace Opera with a slower and less capable browser, that's all. more of my thoughts are here: http://www.atoker.com/webkit/webkitgtk-lce07.pdf
Nov 11 07:38:58 <zerojay> Ugh.. Webkit.
Nov 11 07:39:05 <zerojay> I wish they didn't change the name.
Nov 11 07:39:05 <Luria> slower without a doubt, but less capable?
Nov 11 07:39:19 <zerojay> Opera was far less capable.
Nov 11 07:39:25 <zerojay> And old as hell.
Nov 11 07:39:42 <Luria> and totally useless with google
Nov 11 07:39:54 <Luria> that said, i like the choice of engines
Nov 11 07:42:12 <zerojay> Having Webkit for the tablets would be great... I just wish they kept the KHTML name.
Nov 11 07:42:35 <Luria> i really like browser.garage's design
Nov 11 07:43:09 <Luria> too geeky
Nov 11 07:43:22 <Luria> and the whole k* thing can be annoying
Nov 11 07:44:27 <alp> zerojay: i have not said this before since i was indirectly paid by Nokia at the time, but the browser abstraction layer was hard-coded to support either MicroB or Opera. the whole idea of browser choice was a sham (maybe it has changed now)
Nov 11 07:44:49 <Luria> i wish you could edit/switch the user agent for the browser. sigh.
Nov 11 07:45:20 <Luria> alp: that's dumb. abstraction is a cool idea.
Nov 11 07:45:38 <zerojay> If you reflashed and didn't install microb, you'd sometimes get a different set of menu items allowing you to do stuff like enable/disable javascript for all sites or just google.. but it also allowed you to switch engines.
Nov 11 07:45:50 <zerojay> Engines listed, Opera, MicroB, and Webkit (greyed out).
Nov 11 07:45:57 <zerojay> So I believe we're getting it eventually.
Nov 11 07:47:02 <alp> zerojay: do you know how we added WebKit support to the EAL? with a binary hex editor
Nov 11 07:47:37 <zerojay> Not a surprise, to be honest with you.
Nov 11 07:47:47 <zerojay> alp: Got anything released yet?
Nov 11 07:48:14 <alp> it's funny to hear about this great open development platform and then have to hex edit proprietary abstraction layers to offer an alternative
Nov 11 07:48:37 <romaxa_> alp: mda
Nov 11 07:48:42 <alp> zerojay: i'm not working on the project any more. i think there has been one commit to the EAL repository in the last month, which was to remove an unfinished feature
Nov 11 07:50:23 <alp> i think there is still potential for a replacement browser but we need a better strategy than the hacks :-)
Nov 11 07:50:53 <zerojay> Maybe IT2008 will loosen the reigns.
Nov 11 07:52:19 <alp> romaxa_: nda? the work i'm talking about was done in spare time as proof of concept
Nov 11 07:53:06 <zerojay> alp: Have you talked with timeless here before?
Nov 11 07:53:54 <alp> zerojay: i don't remember it being very productive
Nov 11 07:54:00 <zerojay> lol
Nov 11 07:58:41 <romaxa_> alp: where I can find working Gtk+ application based on webkit?
Nov 11 07:58:53 <romaxa_> alp: sources..
Nov 11 07:58:53 <_Monkey> sources are there.. you can compile that
Nov 11 08:00:01 <romaxa_> I was compiling Webkit for Nxxx ~2 years ago... it was really shit...
Nov 11 08:00:22 <alp> romaxa_: that's funny. we only really started the gtk+ port a year ago
Nov 11 08:00:28 <romaxa_> I was compiling some sources ~ 3 month ago... - nothing was changed
Nov 11 08:00:28 <alp> maybe you are thinking of gtk-webcore?
Nov 11 08:01:15 <romaxa_> alp: maybe
Nov 11 08:02:41 <romaxa_> alp: gtk-webcore was very small, at least 2 years ago...
Nov 11 08:03:08 <alp> gtk-webcore is a different project based on a years-old codebase. i don't know much more than that
Nov 11 08:03:09 <romaxa_> alp:size of current webkit ~10Mb
Nov 11 08:03:46 <romaxa_> alp: depend on sqlite, cairo..... - I guess it is current webkit?
Nov 11 08:04:16 <alp> right. SVG, canvas, database, new CSS features all add up but can be disabled at configure time to cut the build to ~6M
Nov 11 08:05:44 <romaxa_> alp: I was testing on N800 some webkit port... ~ 2-3 month ago... it was unstable, slow, and without any features...
Nov 11 08:08:13 <romaxa_> alp: I was using http://svn.webkit.org/repository/webkit/trunk
Nov 11 08:10:09 <alp> no features? there are some gaps in SVG coverage because the cairo svg backend isn't complete, but i can't imagine how you got a build with no features..
Nov 11 08:10:47 <alp> anyway, i think it's more interesting to put real builds side by side. this conversation is not productive ;-)
Nov 11 08:11:11 <romaxa_> alp: ./WebKitTools/Scripts/build-webkit -qmakearg=WEBKIT_INC_DIR=$PREFIX/include/WebKit -qmakearg=WEBKIT_LIB_DIR=$PREFIX/lib --gdk
Nov 11 08:11:35 <romaxa_> alp: I have build it so..
Nov 11 08:11:45 <alp> romaxa_: the "gdk" bit suggests that the build was done before it was even officially the "gtk+" port
Nov 11 08:16:33 <alp> romaxa_: i think there are some pretty favourable benchmarks. i'll see if i can get permission to blog them
Nov 11 08:17:02 <alp> (from Trolltech)
Nov 11 08:24:49 <czr> Jaffa, 'janne johansson' on devml says that dist-upgrade should be possible (don't know if you noticed)
Nov 11 09:14:21 <timelyx> alp: i can see the sources to the proprietary tuner
Nov 11 09:14:26 <timelyx> tell me what to look for, i'll look
Nov 11 09:22:21 <timelyx> Luria: you can switch the useragent, it's gecko, you change it the same way you would
Nov 11 09:22:23 <timelyx> for any gecko
Nov 11 09:32:18 <kulve> hmm.. Anybody else having problems logging to bugs.maemo.org?
Nov 11 09:32:47 <timelyx> as of when?
Nov 11 09:32:52 <kulve> no matter what I do, it just says "The username or password you entered is not valid."
Nov 11 09:33:21 <timelyx> i'd have to know my password
Nov 11 09:33:24 * timelyx doesn't want to do that
Nov 11 09:34:05 <kulve> I can log to garage just fine, but not to bugzilla..
Nov 11 09:34:16 <timelyx> they're independent
Nov 11 09:34:22 <timelyx> zoran: why did you spam 2242?
Nov 11 09:34:25 <kulve> it sure does seem so
Nov 11 09:36:00 <timelyx> login worksforme
Nov 11 09:36:04 <kulve> ah, they *are* independent ;)
Nov 11 09:36:11 <timelyx> yes, 100%
Nov 11 09:36:18 <timelyx> different userlist, different password list
Nov 11 09:36:20 <kulve> I've changed the passwd for garage, but though somehow that it's the same for bugzilla..
Nov 11 09:37:49 <timelyx> if maemo.org switches to ldap, bugzilla could be migrated to use it
Nov 11 10:21:15 <zchydem_home> good morning folks.. is there a documentation of the maemo platform? Actually I'm interested in about the system boot, logs, scripts, how to disable matchbox and hildon framework etc..
Nov 11 10:27:03 <kulve> I'm not sure if there are documentation about those, but log in with ssh and experiment..
Nov 11 10:27:26 <kulve> if you install syslog, it tells quite much
Nov 11 10:27:54 <kulve> and iirc, there are even startup scripts for the hildon af, so it should be easy to disable it
Nov 11 10:29:21 <zchydem_home> ok, thanks
Nov 11 10:32:14 <kulve> /etc/init.d/af-base-apps
Nov 11 10:32:21 <kulve> that's something you should check out
Nov 11 10:37:45 <kulve> zchydem_home: and remember that some of the services are already started from initfs which is mounted to /mnt/initfs
Nov 11 10:43:01 <zchydem_home> kulve, ok
Nov 11 10:58:08 <lord_moonraker>                                                                 `
Nov 11 10:58:10 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:12 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:13 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:15 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:16 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:18 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:20 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:21 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:23 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:24 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:26 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:27 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:29 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:30 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:32 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:33 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:35 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:36 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:38 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:39 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:41 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:43 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:45 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:47 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:49 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:51 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:53 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:55 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:57 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:58:59 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:01 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:03 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:05 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:06 <ilrepo> porblems? :)
Nov 11 10:59:07 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:08 <truls> it's all adding up
Nov 11 10:59:09 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:11 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:13 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:13 <kaltsi> he's being positive
Nov 11 10:59:15 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:17 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:19 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:21 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:23 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:24 <Masca> what ! ???
Nov 11 10:59:25 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:27 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:29 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:31 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:33 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:35 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:35 * ilrepo waits for excess flood
Nov 11 10:59:37 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:39 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:41 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:43 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:45 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:47 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:49 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:51 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:53 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:53 * Masca add 2 or more +
Nov 11 10:59:54 <Masca> +
Nov 11 10:59:54 <Masca> +
Nov 11 10:59:55 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:55 <Masca> +
Nov 11 10:59:55 <Masca> +
Nov 11 10:59:56 <Masca> +
Nov 11 10:59:56 <Masca> +
Nov 11 10:59:57 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 10:59:58 <Masca> +
Nov 11 10:59:59 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 11:00:00 <Masca> +
Nov 11 11:00:01 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 11:00:02 <Masca> +
Nov 11 11:00:03 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 11:00:05 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 11:00:06 <Masca> +
Nov 11 11:00:07 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 11:00:08 <Masca> +
Nov 11 11:00:09 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 11:00:10 <Masca> +
Nov 11 11:00:11 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 11:00:12 <Masca> +
Nov 11 11:00:13 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 11:00:15 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 11:00:17 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 11:00:19 <lord_moonraker> +
Nov 11 11:00:32 <Masca> +
Nov 11 11:00:32 <Masca> +
Nov 11 11:00:32 <Masca> +
Nov 11 11:00:33 <Masca> +
Nov 11 11:00:33 <Masca> +
Nov 11 11:00:35 <Masca> +
Nov 11 11:06:48 <unique311> fell asleep on the damn keyboard or something
Nov 11 11:07:39 <kpel> hi all
Nov 11 11:17:45 <kpel> if I want to install Chinook do I have to manually uninstall any previous SDK?
Nov 11 12:18:58 <zpol> hola
Nov 11 12:19:05 <alterego> Aloha
Nov 11 12:43:48 * DRoBeR is back :)
Nov 11 12:44:54 <alterego> Woo!
Nov 11 12:45:34 <alterego> Anyone know what the idea behind 'hd_plugin_get_objects' is?
Nov 11 12:45:38 * alterego is confused.
Nov 11 12:46:19 <alterego> I _think_ it's so a plugin can create multiple plugins ..
Nov 11 13:12:12 <m-lund> Hi there: Anyway I can emulate the Nokia N810 experience on my PC before actually buying a N810?
Nov 11 13:12:24 <m-lund> I mean with Qemu or stuff like that?
Nov 11 13:16:21 <kpel> m-lund: perhaps you could try the SDK (Chinook)
Nov 11 13:16:48 <m-lund> kpel: Will that give me a complete emulator?
Nov 11 13:17:40 <kpel> m-lund: it will give you a desktop to run maemo apps. Read this: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/maemo_4-0_chinook_released.html
Nov 11 13:17:53 <m-lund> kpel: Okay, thanks alot.
Nov 11 13:18:23 <kpel> obviously things like the camera, the integration with web services etc won't be simulated
Nov 11 13:18:36 <m-lund> kpel: fair enough.
Nov 11 13:20:01 <kpel> m-lund: to be honest the sdk doesn't do justice to the tablet's look and feel. If I had tried the SDK before buying an N800 I wouldn't buy the tablet at all and that would be a shame imho. Your best choice is to go to a Nokia shop and ask them to show you a tablet.
Nov 11 13:20:20 <kpel> in a few weeks N810 will be in the stores.
Nov 11 13:20:26 <alterego> Yeah,
Nov 11 13:20:55 <m-lund> kpel: From what I've hear from users with the N800, they all seem to be very satisfied. So i might just order one up front.
Nov 11 13:21:10 <m-lund> kpel: It will be a nice MythTV frontend.
Nov 11 13:21:16 <alterego> The SDK is just an environment to test applications you're developing. It doesn't really show how the tablet works or operates in person.
Nov 11 13:21:25 <kpel> m-lund: I for one am very happy with my N800 :)
Nov 11 13:21:35 <alterego> Yeah, I love m N800
Nov 11 13:21:42 <kpel> i can even play the secret of monkey island on it!
Nov 11 13:21:44 <alterego> I'm gonna love my N810 more though me thinks ;)
Nov 11 13:21:48 <m-lund> So are you both going to upgrade it?
Nov 11 13:21:55 <m-lund> N900 > N810?
Nov 11 13:22:09 <alterego> Yeah, I got accepted into the device program so I get an N810 super cheap.
Nov 11 13:22:19 <kpel> i can't afford a second tablet so soon. i bough my n800 in september.
Nov 11 13:22:29 <alterego> kpel, me too :)
Nov 11 13:22:30 <m-lund> alterego: Great, sounds cool.
Nov 11 13:22:38 <alterego> Lucky for the device program ^_^
Nov 11 13:22:46 <alterego> I wouldn't have got one either.
Nov 11 13:23:02 <alterego> I've only had my tablet ~3 months now.
Nov 11 13:23:06 <kpel> alterego: what is the device program? some internal nokia thing?
Nov 11 13:23:24 <alterego> It's in the announcements.
Nov 11 13:23:56 <alterego> So far everytime a tablet has been released they've been giving out discounts to developers, so they can purchase the devices at ~99 EUR.
Nov 11 13:24:20 <alterego> This year with the N810 they had 500 units on discount and the program was open to anyone. Not just developers.
Nov 11 13:25:04 <m-lund> I'm a bit curious how it will handle remote X-applications?
Nov 11 13:25:13 <alterego> Never tried it.
Nov 11 13:25:20 <m-lund> forwarded through ssh connections.
Nov 11 13:25:34 <m-lund> This way I can run Open Office from my server.
Nov 11 13:25:41 <alterego> Heh
Nov 11 13:25:54 <zerojay> Unless it's VNC, forget about that.
Nov 11 13:25:56 <m-lund> Tried out the resolution in Xnest. It's actually good enough for typing.
Nov 11 13:26:02 <alterego> Unfortunately OOo doesn't handle stylus input.
Nov 11 13:26:08 <alterego> That'd be my guess ..
Nov 11 13:26:28 <m-lund> Zero_Dogg: It won't be able to handle remote X? Because of the Window-manager?
Nov 11 13:26:31 <alterego> Yeah, VNC would be a better bet.
Nov 11 13:26:57 <alterego> m-lund, it's not just the window manager. It's the input methods too.
Nov 11 13:27:09 <m-lund> alterego: Okay - but I will have to try it anyway :)
Nov 11 13:27:29 <alterego> What programs do you use in OOo?
Nov 11 13:27:40 <alterego> You can get gnumeric and abiword for the devices.
Nov 11 13:28:07 <m-lund> alterego: Yeah, I know. But I think they will fuck up the ODF-documents (not sure, though)
Nov 11 13:28:25 <alterego> Don't use ODF then ..
Nov 11 13:28:28 <m-lund> What about freeNX instead of VNC?
Nov 11 13:28:40 <alterego> Again, I don't know.
Nov 11 13:28:47 <alterego> Never even heard of FreeNX
Nov 11 13:28:53 <eichi> the new maemo mapper is slower then the older version...maybe couse if the database..
Nov 11 13:28:58 <m-lund> alterego: Okay, just have to try it out though
Nov 11 13:29:11 <alterego> eichi, it's not the database. Read his release notes.
Nov 11 13:29:17 <dockane> i use postershop and canon network scangear on a windows box via vnc.. works
Nov 11 13:29:22 <dockane> wonderful
Nov 11 13:29:24 <alterego> Use google apps ^_^
Nov 11 13:30:09 <eichi> alterego, where can i find them? i search simething like this at the moment
Nov 11 13:30:26 <kpel> alterego: i guess it's not possible to request a tablet now right? i can't do that in my profile.
Nov 11 13:30:27 <alterego> On the project homepage?
Nov 11 13:30:39 <alterego> kpel, no. Too late unfortunately.
Nov 11 13:30:50 <alterego> kpel, maybe you could try next time :)#
Nov 11 13:32:32 <kpel> alterego: yeah, probably :)
Nov 11 13:32:57 <eichi> "It
Nov 11 13:32:57 <eichi> depends on your personal tastes, but the
Nov 11 13:32:57 <eichi> combination of database use and rotational
Nov 11 13:32:57 <eichi> functionality have slowed down screen drawing
Nov 11 13:32:57 <eichi> significantly."
Nov 11 13:33:03 <kpel> alterego: if i want to install chinook do i have to manually remove the previous sdk?
Nov 11 13:33:05 <eichi> thats it
Nov 11 13:33:25 <alterego> kpel, the previous beta chinook SDK?
Nov 11 13:34:37 <kpel> alterego: i don't think it's chinook but an older one (any way to find out?)
Nov 11 13:34:53 <alterego> Then no, you don't need to.
Nov 11 13:35:18 <kpel> will chinook be installed on top of the old one?
Nov 11 13:35:51 <alterego> No
Nov 11 13:36:01 <alterego> They've changed the SDK naming conventions thank god :)
Nov 11 13:36:35 <kpel> so in order to have only chinook installed how do i get rid of the old sdk?
Nov 11 13:36:47 <kpel> do i just remove those debian packages?
Nov 11 13:37:04 <alterego> sb-conf remove SDK_ARMEL
Nov 11 13:37:11 <alterego> and: sb-conf remove SDK_X86
Nov 11 13:38:32 <kpel> ah, from within the emulator?
Nov 11 13:38:43 <kpel> ok thanks
Nov 11 13:38:43 <alterego> From within scratchbox.
Nov 11 13:38:46 <alterego> It's not an emulator.
Nov 11 13:39:10 <kpel> my bad.
Nov 11 13:53:56 <jjo> you can also use sb-menu to remove the targets if you are unsure of the target names ;)
Nov 11 13:59:57 <alterego> sb-conf list --targets
Nov 11 14:00:03 <alterego> :P
Nov 11 14:02:34 <Sho_> By the way, is the "2 GB Flash" of the N810 built into the device in addition to the miniSD slot, or is Nokia simply bundling a 2GB miniSD with the device, i.e. the 2GB actually fill the slot?
Nov 11 14:02:49 <alterego> Sho_, it's build in. There is no bundled memory card.
Nov 11 14:02:57 <alterego> s/build/built/
Nov 11 14:02:57 <infobot> alterego meant: Sho_, it's built in. There is no bundled memory card.
Nov 11 14:03:47 <Sho_> infobot: Ah, ok. I saw a walkthrough video on Internet Tablet Talk where someone was demoing the N810 with a 2GB microSD in a miniSD adapter while mumbling something about "the card I got with [incomprehensible]", so I was wondering
Nov 11 14:04:13 <alterego> Heh
Nov 11 14:04:21 <Sho_> err, alterego, not infobot ;)
Nov 11 14:04:25 <alterego> ;)
Nov 11 14:06:12 <Sho_> (in his defense, my laptop speakers are just plain horrible, so he might in fact be speaking clearly)
Nov 11 14:06:23 <alterego> :)
Nov 11 14:06:36 <alterego> You should use a decent pair of headphones or something.
Nov 11 14:07:27 <alterego> Hmm, require 'hildon-desktop' or 'hildon_desktop' or 'hildon/desktop'
Nov 11 14:07:31 <alterego> I think I prefer the later.
Nov 11 14:10:16 <Jiten> http://blog.fishsoup.net/2007/11/10/reinteract-better-interactive-python/
Nov 11 14:13:55 <alterego> Funky.
Nov 11 14:14:06 <daniels> just to debunk something asserted earlier, dist-upgrade from itos2007 to itos2008 is _not_ possible.  sucks, but c'est la vie.
Nov 11 14:16:43 <p|> 'giorno
Nov 11 14:24:36 <alterego> Is there an extras-devel repository yet?
Nov 11 14:30:23 <Andy80> lot of people are asking me: what will be the price (in euro or dollar) of the upcoming N810?
Nov 11 14:31:41 <astro76> Andy80, in USD, sounds like ~ $480 to 500
Nov 11 14:32:41 <Andy80> mmm... about 349 € then...
Nov 11 14:33:52 <lopz> hola
Nov 11 14:34:43 <ab> "It is expected to start shipping mid November with an estimated retail price of 479 USD (excluding local taxes)."
Nov 11 14:37:41 <timelyx> Andy80: it doesn't work that way
Nov 11 14:37:51 <timelyx> it'll probably be 475 USD or 475 EUR
Nov 11 14:38:05 <timelyx> or 9, whichever
Nov 11 14:38:15 <timelyx> note that in the states you pay sales tax (sometimes)
Nov 11 14:38:20 <timelyx> in europe, VAT is included
Nov 11 14:38:28 <alterego> Oooo
Nov 11 14:38:34 <astro76> typically 6-8% in the US
Nov 11 14:38:36 <Andy80> ah ok
Nov 11 14:38:39 <alterego> Hey timelyx
Nov 11 14:38:39 <_Monkey> hmmm... timelyx is timelyx's mac, it has scrollback
Nov 11 14:38:52 <alterego> shuddup monkey
Nov 11 14:38:56 <timelyx> hrm, that's not quite right
Nov 11 14:38:57 <Andy80> here IVA (something like the VAT) is 20% -__-
Nov 11 14:39:21 <alterego> Depending on the price, I might just get my dad one for Christmas and hold on to my N800 ;)
Nov 11 14:39:38 <alterego> I really _really_ love my N800
Nov 11 14:42:31 <zerojay> The card slot on the N810 is a micro or mini SD?
Nov 11 14:42:32 <db48x> what's the easiest way to compile something to be used with maemo-invoker/maemo-summoner?
Nov 11 14:44:10 <astro76> zerojay, mini
Nov 11 14:46:45 <zerojay> Crap.. I want this microSD 6GB card, but it doesn't come with a mini adapter.
Nov 11 14:46:54 <timelyx> db48x: redefine main to whatever_main, and compile it as a .so instead of a binary
Nov 11 14:47:11 <db48x> timeless: so just add a -shared to gcc?
Nov 11 14:47:25 <timelyx> don't forget to fix the entrypoint, but yeah, that sounds about right
Nov 11 14:48:12 <db48x> summoner source looks like just wants 'main'
Nov 11 14:48:32 <timelyx> sounds wrong
Nov 11 14:48:43 <db48x> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook-20071107/source/maemo-launcher-0.24/launcher/prog.c#68
Nov 11 14:48:58 <db48x> what would the 'whatever' be?
Nov 11 14:49:23 <zerojay> N810 supports microSDHC, right?
Nov 11 14:49:24 <timelyx> hrm, maybe
Nov 11 14:49:41 <astro76> zerojay, yes with a mini adapter
Nov 11 14:50:41 <timelyx> db48x: ok
Nov 11 14:50:53 <timelyx> my memory must be rusty
Nov 11 14:50:59 <timelyx> i know i tried chasing this stuff once before
Nov 11 14:52:55 <timelyx> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook-20071107/source/maemo-launcher-0.24/launcher/launcher.c#675
Nov 11 14:52:59 <timelyx> "documentation" :)
Nov 11 14:53:29 <db48x> I can't wait until we have mobile devices that run normal operating systems, without all this cruft
Nov 11 14:53:42 <db48x> timelyx: heh
Nov 11 14:56:40 <alterego> launcher and summoner will be deprecated soon I think.
Nov 11 15:00:38 <alterego> Hildon is starting to become a lot nicer to play with.
Nov 11 15:00:43 <alterego> Shame it's really poorly documented :/
Nov 11 15:00:53 <alterego> At least at the level I'm attempting to get in to.
Nov 11 15:07:56 <l7> ello
Nov 11 15:11:57 <alterego> Yah for consistant naming conventions O_O
Nov 11 15:13:07 <db48x> hah, maemo-summoner does fail to pass along the commandline arguments
Nov 11 15:13:08 <alterego> It's like looking at a repeat performance of the first hildon releases ^_^
Nov 11 15:13:37 <db48x> argv contains three empty strings
Nov 11 15:13:52 <alterego> Did you pass 3 empty strings?
Nov 11 15:13:53 <db48x> rather than the executable name and the two args I'm passing in
Nov 11 15:13:58 <alterego> Ah.
Nov 11 15:14:01 <alterego> That's interesting.
Nov 11 15:14:08 <alterego> Maybe they're nullified.
Nov 11 15:20:28 <czr> resistance is futile. your stack will be zeroed?
Nov 11 15:21:18 <sp3000> db48x: http://www.ohloh.net/accounts/8014/contributions/5527/commits/11633505 ?
Nov 11 15:22:15 <alterego> Heh
Nov 11 15:22:17 <db48x> sp3000: that sounds hopeful
Nov 11 15:25:14 <db48x> kinda funny to be finding it via ohloh though
Nov 11 15:31:10 <db48x> bah
Nov 11 15:31:14 <db48x> more unmet build dependencies
Nov 11 15:31:44 <alterego> db48x, do what I did. Just give up! :)
Nov 11 15:32:07 <alterego> Actually, I submitted a bug report and moved on to something else until it's resolved.
Nov 11 15:36:56 <db48x> I don't really have that option
Nov 11 15:37:15 <db48x> well, I suppose I do, but then I don't get paid
Nov 11 15:37:30 <alterego> :/
Nov 11 15:37:43 <db48x> so, what apt repository is libhildon*-dev supposed to come from?
Nov 11 15:38:10 <alterego> repository.maemo.org
Nov 11 15:38:10 <_Monkey> repository.maemo.org is ok
Nov 11 15:38:30 <db48x> deb http://repository.maemo.org/ bora free non-free
Nov 11 15:38:43 <alterego> Well, mines chinook.
Nov 11 15:38:51 <db48x> hmm
Nov 11 15:39:36 <lauti> just for interest: can any one tell me how this weird linking of the scratchbox directory inside of a user's home directory is achieved? It looks like a hard-link but these are not possible for directories are they?
Nov 11 15:40:07 <alterego> lauti, which directory are you talking about?
Nov 11 15:40:28 <lauti> '/scratchbox/users/<username>/scratchbox
Nov 11 15:41:01 <lauti> the content of the inner scratchbox directory is actually the content of the outer one... actually an infinite recursion ;-)
Nov 11 15:41:14 <alterego> Yeah, I'm not sure how that's done.
Nov 11 15:41:15 <lauti> find -samefile also warned about this...
Nov 11 15:41:24 <lauti> that's crazy, isn't it?
Nov 11 15:41:35 <lauti> it's not a soft link this is ure
Nov 11 15:41:37 <lauti> sure
Nov 11 15:43:03 <db48x> arrg
Nov 11 15:43:21 <db48x> The following packages will be REMOVED:
Nov 11 15:43:22 <db48x>   hildon-control-panel hildon-control-panel-navigatorapplet hildon-fm-dev hildon-fm1 hildon-lgpl-dev id3search libconbtui0 libogs1.2-1 libosso-abook libosso-abook-dev libosso-certman1
Nov 11 15:43:22 <db48x>   libosso-video-invitation libossomime-dev libossomime0 maemo-af-desktop maemo-explicit maemo-games-startup-dev maemo-launcher maemo-select-menu-location mission-control-filters
Nov 11 15:43:22 <db48x>   osso-addressbook osso-applet-certman osso-contact-plugin osso-esd-dev osso-help-ui osso-speeddial
Nov 11 15:43:47 <alterego> Heh
Nov 11 15:45:41 * db48x resigns himself
Nov 11 15:54:31 <db48x> well
Nov 11 15:54:35 <db48x> that's interesting
Nov 11 15:54:46 <db48x> installing the new maemo-launcher deb made my n800 reboot
Nov 11 15:57:04 <db48x> it's taking an awfully long time to come back up…
Nov 11 15:58:02 <timelyx> it would
Nov 11 15:58:02 <alterego> Uh on :)
Nov 11 15:58:07 <timelyx> maemo-launcher is a system service
Nov 11 15:59:10 <db48x> I think I killed it
Nov 11 15:59:16 <Cord> lauti: thats a mount with option bind: /home/scratchbox on /home/scratchbox/users/cord/scratchbox type none (rw,bind)
Nov 11 15:59:35 <db48x> the startup progress bar is holding at 90% of the way
Nov 11 15:59:46 <timelyx> is ssh enabled on your device?
Nov 11 16:00:24 <db48x> yea
Nov 11 16:00:28 <db48x> it's not responding though
Nov 11 16:00:52 <db48x> can't imagine why not
Nov 11 16:01:02 <zoran> ssh is not responding?
Nov 11 16:01:17 <db48x> yea
Nov 11 16:01:24 <zoran> do you have ip address?
Nov 11 16:01:25 <timelyx> nice brick
Nov 11 16:01:45 <zoran> could you make nmap search for it?
Nov 11 16:01:49 <db48x> zoran: obviously it doesn't
Nov 11 16:01:58 <db48x> it's not even finished booting yet
Nov 11 16:02:03 <zoran> ah
Nov 11 16:02:21 <db48x> though I rather suspect it's about as far along as it's going to get
Nov 11 16:03:27 * timelyx sighs
Nov 11 16:03:41 <db48x> ok, so what's the approved procedure for upgrading things like this?
Nov 11 16:03:41 <timelyx> even w/ sdwilsh's help, i'm still behind
Nov 11 16:04:04 <timelyx> test in scratchbox first
Nov 11 16:04:08 <timelyx> then backup your device
Nov 11 16:04:12 <timelyx> then attach serial cable
Nov 11 16:04:14 <timelyx> then brick it
Nov 11 16:04:19 <timelyx> then reflash
Nov 11 16:04:25 <db48x> heh
Nov 11 16:04:39 <timelyx> don't tell me you forgot your serial cable :)
Nov 11 16:04:52 <db48x> wasn't included
Nov 11 16:04:58 <db48x> unless you mean usb
Nov 11 16:05:04 <timelyx> no :)
Nov 11 16:05:11 <timelyx> well, did you at least test in scratchbox? :)
Nov 11 16:05:30 <db48x> installing those build deps destroyed my scratchbox environment
Nov 11 16:05:39 <db48x> it uninstalled af-maemo-desktop and so on
Nov 11 16:05:48 <timelyx> that wasn't a good hint that you had a problem? :)
Nov 11 16:06:14 <db48x> it was a good hint that anything debian based sucks
Nov 11 16:07:07 <db48x> heh, I can still access the memory card in the n800
Nov 11 16:07:15 <timelyx> you didn't get that hint from me a couple of years ago?
Nov 11 16:07:18 * timelyx is so disappointed
Nov 11 16:07:21 <db48x> guess that's autonomic
Nov 11 16:07:50 <db48x> I remember you mentioning it
Nov 11 16:08:13 <db48x> and I remember experiencing it every single time I've ever tried to use anything debian based
Nov 11 16:08:32 <db48x> so I didn't read anything special into this particular example of it
Nov 11 16:08:56 <db48x> now, where did I put the flasher
Nov 11 16:09:04 <timelyx> someday people will learn not to ignore me
Nov 11 16:09:12 <timelyx> but clearly i've been waiting many years for that day
Nov 11 16:10:06 <alterego> You have a serial cable?
Nov 11 16:10:21 <timelyx> personally, for the n810? no
Nov 11 16:10:26 <timelyx> but they technically exist
Nov 11 16:10:32 <alterego> Hmmm ..
Nov 11 16:10:35 <alterego> JTag?
Nov 11 16:10:48 <timelyx> nokia's a phone vendor first
Nov 11 16:11:02 <timelyx> each phone has a jig which has pins and power and some form of serial cable
Nov 11 16:11:03 <alterego> Sure, I recognise the mbus port.
Nov 11 16:11:30 <alterego> I have an mbus cable somewhere.
Nov 11 16:11:46 <alterego> Without knowing the protocols etc it's pretty useless with a tablet though :)
Nov 11 16:11:57 <timelyx> personally my view is any software engineer above a certain level using the jig is doing something really wrong
Nov 11 16:12:11 <timelyx> and db48x is well above that level
Nov 11 16:12:16 <alterego> Hahah
Nov 11 16:12:36 <alterego> I'm getting so many instruction errors from qemu.
Nov 11 16:12:40 <timelyx> fwiw, i did actually write a patch to some of the code referenced in that ohloh commit :)
Nov 11 16:12:47 <alterego> What did nokia screw up with glibc?
Nov 11 16:13:06 <timelyx> last i checked qemu's abi support was at least one arm level less than the device
Nov 11 16:13:11 <timelyx> and that used by the compiler :)
Nov 11 16:13:19 <alterego> :/
Nov 11 16:13:24 <alterego> That's really usefull.
Nov 11 16:13:43 <alterego> Considering a lot of the tools needed to compiles packages are built in sbox first.
Nov 11 16:13:43 <timelyx> useful would be someone paying someone to fix qemu
Nov 11 16:13:46 <timelyx> don't ask me if that's being done
Nov 11 16:14:14 <timelyx> simplest solution is to abandon scratchbox
Nov 11 16:14:21 <timelyx> proper cross compiling would be better
Nov 11 16:14:28 <alterego> Hmm.
Nov 11 16:14:38 <alterego> I wouldn't know where to begin.
Nov 11 16:14:55 <timelyx> apt-get remove scratchbox
Nov 11 16:14:56 <alterego> So this is a qemu issue?
Nov 11 16:15:10 <timelyx> i'm not sure what you're seeing
Nov 11 16:15:18 <timelyx> but assuming i've picked the right problem, yes
Nov 11 16:15:27 <alterego> I just keep getting loads of unsupported instruction errors.
Nov 11 16:15:44 <timelyx> that'd match what i'm describing
Nov 11 16:16:02 <alterego> Well, that's not good ..
Nov 11 16:16:21 <alterego> I have no chance of continuing with ruby-maemo if I can't even compile my software O_o
Nov 11 16:16:47 <timelyx> glibc is open source, no?
Nov 11 16:16:51 <alterego> Compile/Test
Nov 11 16:16:56 <timelyx> presumably you can apt-get source
Nov 11 16:17:07 <timelyx> and then rebuild w/ a qemu supported arm target
Nov 11 16:17:31 <timelyx> but it would seem odd for the sdk to not actually *work*
Nov 11 16:17:34 <alterego> Would a package built in that way still work on the device?
Nov 11 16:17:45 <timelyx> sure
Nov 11 16:17:57 <timelyx> theoretically it should be slower
Nov 11 16:18:02 <alterego> I'll give it a go.
Nov 11 16:18:13 <alterego> I'm gonna blame you if my computer explodes though :P
Nov 11 16:18:19 <db48x> arrg
Nov 11 16:18:26 <timelyx> if you aren't using vmware to host this stuff, you're nuts
Nov 11 16:18:30 <timelyx> and i so don't support you :)
Nov 11 16:18:30 <db48x> you have to take out the battery just to download the latest firmware?
Nov 11 16:18:38 <timelyx> ?
Nov 11 16:18:42 <timelyx> for n800?
Nov 11 16:18:46 <timelyx> not if it's bootable
Nov 11 16:18:49 <db48x> oh, not on the n800
Nov 11 16:18:51 <timelyx> about in control panel has the answer
Nov 11 16:19:01 <db48x> timelyx: haha, very funny
Nov 11 16:19:01 <alterego> I'm not using VMWare :P
Nov 11 16:19:20 <timelyx> alterego: your first mistake
Nov 11 16:19:30 <timelyx> db48x: confused
Nov 11 16:19:31 <alterego> If my computer was capable I would ..
Nov 11 16:19:37 <alterego> I have a very shit computer.
Nov 11 16:19:40 <timelyx> you can grab any version you like if you have vpn
Nov 11 16:20:01 <timelyx> i have a p2/450 and a g5/1.6ghz
Nov 11 16:20:10 <timelyx> which of those is going to run scratchbox well?
Nov 11 16:21:41 <db48x> Error reading FIASCO header: Success
Nov 11 16:21:54 <timelyx> lol
Nov 11 16:21:56 <alterego> Hahah
Nov 11 16:22:15 <db48x> it's a fiasco all right
Nov 11 16:22:16 <alterego> Hmm.
Nov 11 16:22:23 <sp3000> success not being a fiasco, that's one kind of consistent
Nov 11 16:22:29 <alterego> Neither. Unless you can get vmware for the g5 :P
Nov 11 16:22:43 <alterego> I just don't have enough RAM in this craptop.
Nov 11 16:22:52 <alterego> I'll buy a new laptop next week.
Nov 11 16:22:57 <timelyx> i have 2 1/4 g in my mac
Nov 11 16:23:09 <alterego> Not sure I can keep on using this POS for much longer :)
Nov 11 16:23:11 <timelyx> 150mb free
Nov 11 16:23:14 <db48x> ah, I see
Nov 11 16:23:22 <sp3000> that reminds me, I need to shop for some ram
Nov 11 16:23:23 <db48x> I just hadn't quite finished downloading the file
Nov 11 16:23:28 <sp3000> heh
Nov 11 16:23:39 <alterego> What are the chances of doing tablet dev on a mac?
Nov 11 16:23:47 <alterego> Ooo .. With Hypervisor VM ..
Nov 11 16:23:54 <timelyx> alterego: successfully at this point? not very good
Nov 11 16:23:57 <timelyx> i looked at sb2
Nov 11 16:24:01 <timelyx> and it was really not ready
Nov 11 16:24:06 <alterego> I was thinking of using the vt extensions.
Nov 11 16:24:26 <timelyx> so, is there a way to read planet or news based on Hearts? :)
Nov 11 16:24:28 <db48x> alterego: I tried getting xen to work yesterday
Nov 11 16:24:35 * timelyx only wants to read articles w/ 20 hearts :)
Nov 11 16:24:40 <alterego> db48x, Any luck?
Nov 11 16:24:49 <db48x> not really
Nov 11 16:25:06 <alterego> :/
Nov 11 16:25:34 <db48x> the gui control panel didn't always work (buttons that didn't do anything when you clicked them, for example), and the command line stuff sometimes hung forever trying to create a vm
Nov 11 16:25:47 <alterego> I have no idea how to select a qemu supported arm target ..
Nov 11 16:26:20 * alterego looks up gcc arm stuff.
Nov 11 16:26:34 * timelyx shrugs
Nov 11 16:26:39 <timelyx> i'm not a build person :)
Nov 11 16:26:46 <alterego> pfft.
Nov 11 16:27:12 <Jaffa> Ev'ning, all.
Nov 11 16:27:24 <timelyx> hi
Nov 11 16:28:02 * db48x picks a language
Nov 11 16:28:19 <timelyx> ooh, superman 2 is on
Nov 11 16:28:31 <Jaffa> Kneel before Zod!
Nov 11 16:28:45 <alterego> :)
Nov 11 16:28:48 <timelyx> Hot dog? Hot dog.
Nov 11 16:28:59 <timelyx> Oh could I have some orange juice? Freshly squeezed...
Nov 11 16:29:26 <alterego> Shame I can't do cputransp. That would solve my problems ..
Nov 11 16:29:42 <timelyx> bah superman 2 gets the physics right
Nov 11 16:29:47 <Jaffa> czr: there's also a post about it on the top of p.m.o at the moment :-)
Nov 11 16:29:49 <sp3000> timelyx: http://maemo.org/news/ I suppose
Nov 11 16:29:55 <timelyx> hey, are they on the american or canadian side?
Nov 11 16:30:05 * czr nods at jaffa
Nov 11 16:30:12 <sp3000> for some definition of read
Nov 11 16:31:11 <sp3000> unless 20+ hearts aims at 0 items :)
Nov 11 16:31:15 <timelyx> sp3000: cool
Nov 11 16:31:55 <timelyx> sp3000: *grumble* everywhere i look, i'm "timeless -"
Nov 11 16:31:57 <alterego> Okay, got that. Now how do I know which arch qemu will be good at?
Nov 11 16:32:00 <timelyx> what kind of name is that?
Nov 11 16:32:03 * timelyx should go back to tim eless
Nov 11 16:32:06 <sp3000> dashing
Nov 11 16:34:22 * Jaffa is now N800-less; having sold it to a very eager punter on ITT
Nov 11 16:34:47 <alterego> NO Jaffa !!!!
Nov 11 16:35:11 <Jaffa> I'll appreciate the N810 even more when it arrives having been deviceless for a week or two.
Nov 11 16:35:26 <Andy80> :)
Nov 11 16:35:49 <alterego> When I recieved my N800 ~3 months back. IT was like love at first sight :)
Nov 11 16:35:54 <Jaffa> Andy80: thanks for the blog post (which is on pmo) saying dist-upgrade works :)
Nov 11 16:36:10 <l7> http://tabletblog.com/2007/01/so-you-want-to-be-nokia-internet-tablet.html
Nov 11 16:36:31 <db48x> timeless: so why do you think installing this updated maemo-launcher failed?
Nov 11 16:37:00 <l7> hey, is anyone running scratchbox on VMware?
Nov 11 16:37:08 <alterego> czr, you knew a little about this. I'm trying to compile glibc for a subarch better supported by qemu so I can build packages correctly. Do you know what subarch I should choose?
Nov 11 16:37:08 <Andy80> Jaffa: nothing :) thanks to Janne Johansson that helpend me on the mailing list :)
Nov 11 16:37:15 <timelyx> did you lose all your packages?
Nov 11 16:37:36 <czr> alterego, armel? :-) I have no idea with arm
Nov 11 16:37:44 <alterego> :/
Nov 11 16:38:00 <alterego> I can't compile packages due to unknown instructions >:(
Nov 11 16:38:45 <db48x> timelyx: I lost a lot of stuff I had installed, yea
Nov 11 16:38:57 <itnomad> built in gps receiver!!!
Nov 11 16:39:01 <timelyx> that's probably not so good :)
Nov 11 16:39:18 <db48x> agreed
Nov 11 16:39:21 <Andy80> Jaffa: one little note.... the target's name remain the same.... SDK_BETA_x86 and SDK_BETA_ARM... I don't know how to rename them
Nov 11 16:39:37 <alterego> You can rename them manuall.
Nov 11 16:39:39 <alterego> You can rename them manually
Nov 11 16:39:48 <Andy80> alterego: how?
Nov 11 16:39:49 <db48x> I hadn't backed much of anything up
Nov 11 16:40:02 <timelyx> also not good :)
Nov 11 16:40:07 <alterego>  /scratchbox/users/*/targets
Nov 11 16:40:30 <alterego> You need to change the .config file and rename the directory.
Nov 11 16:40:34 <db48x> so, if installing this package causes the machine to reboot, the proper method would be to compose a new flash image and update my n800 with it, right?
Nov 11 16:40:54 <alterego> SBOX_TARGET_NAME and SBOX_TARGET_DIR
Nov 11 16:41:10 <elb> ugh, why /scratchbox :-P
Nov 11 16:41:13 <timelyx> db48x: you could try to make sure you don't get other things replaced
Nov 11 16:41:18 <timelyx> or removed
Nov 11 16:41:36 <alterego> elb, '/' is relative to the parent directory :P
Nov 11 16:41:39 <db48x> how?
Nov 11 16:41:43 <Andy80> alterego: not so easy... there are a lot of links to fix and rename
Nov 11 16:41:45 <elb> alterego: not if you use the .debs
Nov 11 16:41:56 <Andy80> elb: I used .debs
Nov 11 16:42:02 <alterego> Andy80, oh. I just thought that'd work :)
Nov 11 16:42:06 * timelyx shrugs
Nov 11 16:42:26 <alterego> Anyhow, I just edited the nokia installer scripts to install under - maemoX-sdk-armel
Nov 11 16:42:28 <elb> Andy80: and installed to a different prefix?
Nov 11 16:42:30 <alterego> or i386
Nov 11 16:42:30 <zoran> making environment variables could make an issue less annoying
Nov 11 16:42:31 <Andy80> elb: and even after the upgrade, the name remain
Nov 11 16:42:50 <Andy80> elb: no... I simply used the script provided by Maemo website
Nov 11 16:43:00 <Andy80> and didn't change the prefix or path...
Nov 11 16:43:07 <elb> (the comments in maemo-scratchbox-install_4.0.sh indicate that it installs to /scratchbox, and that's Just It)
Nov 11 16:43:14 <elb> Andy80: so your install is in /scratchbox?
Nov 11 16:43:19 <Andy80> elb: yes
Nov 11 16:43:26 <elb> right ... not helpful to me
Nov 11 16:43:34 <elb> I don't have enough space on /
Nov 11 16:44:29 <timelyx> can't you make a mountpoint for /scratchbox ?
Nov 11 16:44:29 * elb tries to trick it with a symlink
Nov 11 16:44:30 <Andy80> one question: what is the difference, once I'm logged into my scratchbox environment, doing: apt-get install something or doing fakeroot apt-get install something ?
Nov 11 16:44:48 <timelyx> the former should fail? :)
Nov 11 16:44:50 <elb> timelyx: this is a laptop, and all available partitions are already mounted
Nov 11 16:44:52 <db48x> wtf
Nov 11 16:44:55 <db48x> now my wifi doesn't work
Nov 11 16:45:35 <timelyx> elb: bah, good luck w/ the symlink
Nov 11 16:45:36 <alterego> Hah
Nov 11 16:45:48 <alterego> db48x, to a cold boot. Take out battery and wait a few seconds.
Nov 11 16:45:59 <db48x> hrm
Nov 11 16:46:00 <db48x> works now
Nov 11 16:46:04 <db48x> must have been a fluke
Nov 11 16:46:12 <elb> timelyx: it's doing ... something ;-)
Nov 11 16:46:27 * alterego cries.
Nov 11 16:47:00 <alterego> How easy is it to make a scratchbox devkit? Like perl?
Nov 11 16:47:11 <astro76> is there a trick to getting the battery out of an n800?
Nov 11 16:47:22 <zerojay> Um.. you pull it out?
Nov 11 16:47:23 <db48x> screwdriver
Nov 11 16:47:36 <alterego> astro76, take the back of and tap the front with your hand under the battery.
Nov 11 16:47:38 <alterego> Then catch
Nov 11 16:47:45 <timelyx> bang the device against your hand
Nov 11 16:47:48 <zerojay> You could damage the battery with the screwdriver.
Nov 11 16:47:54 <astro76> it won't come out with my fingernail, it's really tight
Nov 11 16:48:43 <astro76> tapping is also unsuccessful
Nov 11 16:48:50 <zerojay> Maybe I don't feel sympathetic because I spent about a year and a half pulling out phone batteries and swapping sims daily.
Nov 11 16:48:52 <alterego> I'm so crap. I've lost my stylus like 5 times today.
Nov 11 16:49:00 <alterego> Hah
Nov 11 16:49:31 <db48x> alterego: I keep doing that too
Nov 11 16:49:48 <alterego> It just fell down the side of my bed this time :/
Nov 11 16:49:53 <db48x> heh
Nov 11 16:51:32 <alterego> It's very annoying.
Nov 11 16:51:42 <alterego> I think I'm going to attach a bit of thread to if from my tablet :)
Nov 11 16:54:27 <itnomad> put a rubber band around your wrist and park your stylus there.
Nov 11 16:54:50 <alterego> I should just super glue it in place.
Nov 11 16:54:57 <alterego> Use it as a 5th finger.
Nov 11 16:55:04 <db48x> heh
Nov 11 16:55:40 <alterego> The N800 stylus is super comfy compared the the 770's
Nov 11 16:55:53 <alterego> I wonder what the N810's will be like.
Nov 11 16:56:12 <itnomad> I think everything about the n800 is better than the 770
Nov 11 16:56:33 <alterego> Yeah.
Nov 11 16:56:41 <itnomad> except maybe the appearance. I like the slick look of the 770.
Nov 11 16:56:48 * alterego chuckles.
Nov 11 16:56:58 <alterego> I always thought the 770 looked like a toy.
Nov 11 16:57:05 <itnomad> I fell off my chair when it showed up in that Blue Surfer movie.
Nov 11 16:57:05 <alterego> The N800 is far more serious a device.
Nov 11 16:57:30 <timelyx> silver
Nov 11 16:57:44 <timelyx> yeah, nokia has some marketing connections
Nov 11 16:57:47 <itnomad> timelyx: indeed..thanks.
Nov 11 16:57:51 <alterego> Hahah
Nov 11 16:57:54 <alterego> That was funny.
Nov 11 16:58:02 <timelyx> i see lots of nokia phones placed in movies
Nov 11 16:58:11 <alterego> Yeah, Matrix ..
Nov 11 16:58:16 <timelyx> but, i think that's basically money
Nov 11 17:00:06 <timelyx> otoh, it doesn't seem like nokia can get products placed in tv shows
Nov 11 17:00:12 <alterego> I came up with this cool idea for a desktop applet.
Nov 11 17:00:31 <timelyx> superman.powers*=0
Nov 11 17:00:36 <alterego> Hopefully I'll finish ruby-hildon-desktop this evening and be able to work on it.
Nov 11 17:01:34 <alterego> After I've released 0.3.0 for maemo4 ..
Nov 11 17:01:39 <itnomad> I'd like to see a radar detector that pops up on the GPS screen of the n810 when needed
Nov 11 17:01:47 <timelyx> heh
Nov 11 17:01:47 <itnomad> :)
Nov 11 17:01:54 <timelyx> the chinook sdk got 1 thumbs down
Nov 11 17:03:07 <alterego> I'd say it's an improvement. Though, that's probably from an API perspective. It's hard to tell how things are working at lower lever.
Nov 11 17:04:03 <alterego> Though, there's a repeat of some bad practises from the old hildon api repeating in the new hildon-desktop API I noticed.
Nov 11 17:04:09 <alterego> Odd naming conventions.
Nov 11 17:04:10 <pupnik> 'lower lever' ... huhuhuh </beavis>
Nov 11 17:04:46 <pupnik> greets
Nov 11 17:04:53 <alterego> Which means, if they fix it like the did with the old oddities. Then there's another API break ..
Nov 11 17:12:27 <xadap> hi :)
Nov 11 17:15:40 <pupnik> good $day
Nov 11 17:17:28 * db48x yawns
Nov 11 17:20:37 * pupnik gives lardman 5 internets and a 'huzzah'
Nov 11 17:20:59 <pupnik> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=92973&postcount=19
Nov 11 17:24:54 <lopz> re
Nov 11 17:26:00 <db48x> yarg
Nov 11 17:26:04 <db48x> ssh is timing out again
Nov 11 17:26:34 <Monkulus> timelyx, nokia's not so great at movie product placement.
Nov 11 17:27:02 <Monkulus> After all, are they in Superman 2?  Does Zod conquer with the unholy union of IT and Symbian phone?  Does Superman kneel at the sight of a slide out keyboard?
Nov 11 17:28:22 <Luria> I wonder if anyone paid for placement in Superman 4.  I would have sued for damages.
Nov 11 17:28:50 <pupnik> we saw 770 in a movie i think
Nov 11 17:29:12 <Luria> pupnik, FF: Rise of the Silver Surfer.
Nov 11 17:29:44 <Luria> it's Reed Richards's X10 controller, more or less.
Nov 11 17:30:03 <Luria> plus a world emergency rss feed.
Nov 11 17:30:05 <alterego> Yeah, that was fun.
Nov 11 17:30:09 <Luria> I need that.
Nov 11 17:32:22 <pupnik> Hildon Input Method: Insensitive Press...
Nov 11 17:32:29 <Luria> meh, I want my os 2008 already, so I can get the two  day long hassle of getting everything back to where it was over with.
Nov 11 17:32:59 <Luria> lol
Nov 11 17:33:21 <Luria> i searched for "mass attraction" on wikipedia
Nov 11 17:33:26 <Luria> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=mass%20attraction&go=go&sourceid=customizegoogle
Nov 11 17:34:00 <Luria> i think the search engine took it a bit too literally.
Nov 11 17:38:15 <pupnik> any thoughts about miniSD card brands?
Nov 11 17:38:55 <maddler> pupnik: SanDisk...
Nov 11 17:39:06 <maddler> imho
Nov 11 17:39:52 <pupnik> wow 2GB only 14 euro
Nov 11 17:40:13 <pupnik> ty
Nov 11 17:51:10 <killfill> hey..
Nov 11 17:51:18 <killfill> cna i install chincook on a N800?
Nov 11 17:51:29 <killfill> cannot find the image(s)...
Nov 11 17:51:32 <killfill> :(
Nov 11 17:52:52 <alterego> killfill, it's not out yet.
Nov 11 17:55:29 <killfill> anyone alife.. :)
Nov 11 17:55:52 <alterego> It is not out yet.
Nov 11 17:55:54 <maddler> hmmm... did anyone noticed the N810's USB connector shape?
Nov 11 17:56:03 <maddler> killfill: you gotta wait...
Nov 11 17:56:03 <alterego> maddler, it's smaller than the standard mini.
Nov 11 17:56:12 <alterego> MicroUSB probably ^_^
Nov 11 17:56:15 <maddler> alterego: right...
Nov 11 17:56:20 <killfill> ah.. its just for 810 today isnit?
Nov 11 17:56:22 <alterego> It looks identical though.
Nov 11 17:56:37 <alterego> killfill, no. It will be released for the N800 too. But it's not out yet!
Nov 11 17:57:15 <killfill> oh.. wanted to add something funny to do this sunday.. :S
Nov 11 17:57:31 <hircus> maddler: it's confirmed to be micro-USB, from the reviews I've seen
Nov 11 17:57:35 <zerojay> It'll probably be another two or three Sundays before you can do that on the N800.
Nov 11 17:57:44 <maddler> yep...
Nov 11 17:57:45 <maddler> http://europe.nokia.com/A4448100
Nov 11 17:58:00 <maddler> CA-101 usb cable...
Nov 11 17:58:02 <killfill> oh that far away?.. 1 moth?..
Nov 11 17:58:25 <killfill> damn.
Nov 11 17:58:26 <zerojay> A week or two after the N810 launch.
Nov 11 17:58:27 <Andy80> maddler: what is microUSB?
Nov 11 17:58:37 <maddler> ANDY! :D
Nov 11 17:58:39 <maddler> :D
Nov 11 17:58:44 <maddler> a smaller USB connector...
Nov 11 17:59:00 <maddler> just to avoid you can use same cable with all you devices... ;)
Nov 11 17:59:05 <timelyx> zerojay: jaffa
Nov 11 17:59:05 <maddler> I hate that!!!
Nov 11 17:59:18 <timelyx> i think it's designed to support usb-otg
Nov 11 18:00:19 <killfill> "OS2008 are both fully compatible with the Nokia N810 and N800".. guess it means it is compatible with n800 in the future.. :P
Nov 11 18:00:28 <Andy80> maddler: ahhh ok :)
Nov 11 18:00:48 <hircus> killfill: as I understand it, the N800 update will be released simultaneously with the N810 launch
Nov 11 18:01:17 <Andy80> maddler: the one on the left? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USB_types_2.jpg
Nov 11 18:01:18 <zerojay> hircus: That's what's been publically stated but someone in the know said they expect it to be a week or two after launch.
Nov 11 18:01:25 <hircus> it's the exact same hardware, minus the FM and SD reader, plus the GPS, keyboard and mini-SD
Nov 11 18:01:26 <killfill> aah.. what was release was only the sdk, not the "user" images?
Nov 11 18:01:32 <hircus> zerojay: ah ok
Nov 11 18:01:58 <hircus> killfill: the recent Chinook announcement? yes
Nov 11 18:02:18 <killfill> aAAah...
Nov 11 18:02:22 <hircus> I was wondering why my SDK had no updates available for weeks, but when I updated yesterday there was an avalanche of updates
Nov 11 18:02:46 <timelyx> hircus: and the transflexive screen
Nov 11 18:02:50 <Andy80> hircus: maybe becase SDK 4.0 final is out :) ??
Nov 11 18:03:31 <Andy80> where can I get more information about the n810 touch screen? is it more similar to iPhone one?
Nov 11 18:03:37 <hircus> timelyx: yes, but that's not dependent on OS
Nov 11 18:03:46 <hircus> Andy80: yes, that's what I meant when I told killfill :)
Nov 11 18:03:53 <timelyx> hircus: ok, ambient light sensor?
Nov 11 18:03:59 <hircus> oh yes, actually, the light sensor -- you beat me to it
Nov 11 18:04:23 <hircus> but it's the kind of thing that they could include in the image for N800 and it would not do any harm
Nov 11 18:04:29 <hircus> (apart from taking up space)
Nov 11 18:04:35 <timelyx> actually
Nov 11 18:04:42 <timelyx> i believe it's supposed to behave differently
Nov 11 18:04:52 <timelyx> although i haven't run itos2008 images on the n800
Nov 11 18:05:10 <timelyx> because at least on the n810 you get fewer brightness settings than in itos2007
Nov 11 18:05:57 <Andy80> timelyx: are you using the n810 at the moment?
Nov 11 18:06:07 <timelyx> one or two
Nov 11 18:06:08 <_Monkey> 3
Nov 11 18:06:17 <Andy80> wow :)
Nov 11 18:06:21 <timelyx> three or five
Nov 11 18:06:21 <_Monkey> 7
Nov 11 18:06:28 <Andy80> what about the screen?
Nov 11 18:06:38 <timelyx> Andy80: there's no sun here
Nov 11 18:06:39 <timelyx> ask in may
Nov 11 18:06:44 <Andy80> :D
Nov 11 18:07:24 <Andy80> I was not talking about the readibility under the sun :P I was talking about the touching sensitivity...
Nov 11 18:07:50 <timelyx> it took me a while before the n800 protos started wearing to the point they were unusable
Nov 11 18:07:58 <timelyx> i've had <5weeks where i could use an n8100
Nov 11 18:08:00 <timelyx> er
Nov 11 18:08:01 <timelyx> i've had <5weeks where i could use an n810
Nov 11 18:08:27 <timelyx> and i'm balancing wear across 2 n810s, and maybe 4 n800s
Nov 11 18:08:54 <timelyx> plus, there's no software to use
Nov 11 18:09:02 <Andy80> timelyx: and what do you do with all these devices :) ?
Nov 11 18:09:12 <timelyx> browse the web
Nov 11 18:09:17 <timelyx> try to get other people to use them
Nov 11 18:09:36 <timelyx> find embarrassing bugs
Nov 11 18:09:39 <Andy80> with all of them :D ??? you're an octopuss!!! :D
Nov 11 18:09:45 <Andy80> I'm joking ;)
Nov 11 18:09:51 <timelyx> two for me, and 2 for two other people
Nov 11 18:11:00 <zerojay> Are you getting wear on the screen like I am?
Nov 11 18:11:10 <timelyx> on the n800 proto i got wear
Nov 11 18:11:21 <timelyx> the others haven't suffered too badly
Nov 11 18:12:07 <zerojay> Mine's starting to cry.
Nov 11 18:12:25 <zerojay> Selling it as soon as the N810 is up for order to a coworker.
Nov 11 18:12:47 <zerojay> Not that I want to sell it, but to cover the cost of the N810.
Nov 11 18:15:58 <pupnik> haven't seen any wear on the 770 - i assume the material is the same
Nov 11 18:16:50 <zerojay> Maybe you don't do as much chatting as I do.
Nov 11 18:17:12 <Andy80> maddler: I'd like to organize an event, here in Italy, to spread the Maemo platform: introduction to maemo, installing the SDK, available development languages, ecc.... what do you think about?
Nov 11 18:18:46 <maddler> Andy80: that could be interesting...
Nov 11 18:19:05 <maddler> Andy80: also another friend got the Mail ;)
Nov 11 18:22:56 <alterego> Think I've persuaded my dad to get an N810 instead of pinching my N800 :)
Nov 11 18:24:35 <zerojay> timelyx: E-mail me your address. jay@jablet.net
Nov 11 18:25:39 <xadap> i've found a battery on ebay, BP-5L
Nov 11 18:25:41 <xadap> 5€
Nov 11 18:25:55 <xadap> would you trust it? :/
Nov 11 18:26:17 <alterego> Would I trust anything?
Nov 11 18:26:33 <xadap> GNU/Linux, of course
Nov 11 18:26:37 <alterego> Pfft.
Nov 11 18:26:40 <alterego> Not likely.
Nov 11 18:26:42 <xadap> haha
Nov 11 18:26:51 <xadap> the point is that comes from a chinese seller
Nov 11 18:26:57 <alterego> When it comes to software it's hard to trust anything.
Nov 11 18:27:00 <xadap> and they doesn't speak spanish very well
Nov 11 18:29:25 <maddler> xadap: I wouldn't...
Nov 11 18:29:28 <bedboi> hi there.
Nov 11 18:29:37 <alterego> I seem to spend more time looking at maemo source than I do my own :/
Nov 11 18:29:44 <maddler> hi bedboi
Nov 11 18:30:13 <alterego> Anyhow, I think I'm nearly done now :)
Nov 11 18:30:13 <bedboi> is there a way to find out the version of maemo installed?
Nov 11 18:30:21 <alterego> bedboi, on a tablet?
Nov 11 18:30:24 <bedboi> nope
Nov 11 18:30:27 <alterego> SDK?
Nov 11 18:30:27 <bedboi> at compile time
Nov 11 18:30:28 <_Monkey> i heard SDK was not complete yet, anyway
Nov 11 18:30:48 <alterego> bedboi, check for libraries.
Nov 11 18:30:50 <bedboi> _Monkey: shut your mouth.
Nov 11 18:30:51 <_Monkey> bedboi: excuse me?
Nov 11 18:30:53 <alterego> hildon-1 for Maemo4
Nov 11 18:30:59 <elb> boo for infobots
Nov 11 18:31:01 <alterego> hildon-libs for maemo3
Nov 11 18:31:13 <bedboi> yep i know this, it would be convenient to have something like MAEMO_VERSION
Nov 11 18:31:14 <alterego> Not sure about maemo2
Nov 11 18:31:25 <alterego> Well, you could set that yourself ;)
Nov 11 18:31:35 <alterego> But no. There is no real way.
Nov 11 18:31:41 <bedboi> alterego: ok.
Nov 11 18:31:45 <alterego> You should really just be checking against the libraries you're using though.
Nov 11 18:31:48 <bedboi> i was doing that way
Nov 11 18:31:50 <alterego> The Maemo release doesn't matter.
Nov 11 18:32:02 <alterego> You're not compiling against some Maemo lib after all ;)
Nov 11 18:32:12 <bedboi> i'll just use ./configure --enable-chinhook
Nov 11 18:32:22 <bedboi> because my app works on gpe too
Nov 11 18:32:32 <alterego> chin-hook? Sounds painfull.
Nov 11 18:32:37 <alterego> ;)
Nov 11 18:32:47 <bedboi> ahha
Nov 11 18:32:55 <bedboi> chinook
Nov 11 18:32:55 <_Monkey> chinook is the tag name for OS2008
Nov 11 18:33:12 <bedboi> _Monkey: i said, please shut your bot-mouth
Nov 11 18:33:12 <_Monkey> bedboi: excuse me?
Nov 11 18:33:14 <bedboi> :)
Nov 11 18:34:14 <xadap> is there any trouble with osso-statusbar-cpu and OS2007HE ?
Nov 11 18:34:30 <alterego> xadap, you tell me. Are you having trouble? :)
Nov 11 18:34:48 <xadap> yes, but i was asking for already known trouble :)
Nov 11 18:35:02 <alterego> What is _your_ trouble?
Nov 11 18:35:05 <xadap> i've installed it without problems and it doesn't wanna run :/
Nov 11 18:35:18 <alterego> Have you tried restarting?
Nov 11 18:35:23 <xadap> twice
Nov 11 18:35:28 <alterego> Hmm,
Nov 11 18:35:31 <alterego> reinstalling?
Nov 11 18:35:41 <xadap> i'm doing it at the moment
Nov 11 18:35:55 <xadap> that's going to be the 3rd attempt
Nov 11 18:36:29 <alterego> Doesn't sound too promising.
Nov 11 18:36:32 <xadap> it doesn't work, again
Nov 11 18:36:40 <alterego> Are you using seatbelt?
Nov 11 18:37:02 <xadap> i didn't install it since OS2007HE doesn't crash
Nov 11 18:37:08 <xadap> should I try it anyway?
Nov 11 18:37:11 <alterego> Yes
Nov 11 18:37:25 <alterego> The crashes are programs stopping (or not starting) due to low memory.
Nov 11 18:37:56 <xadap> agr, i thought crashes were unwanted reboots
Nov 11 18:38:32 <alterego> I think that's something else.
Nov 11 18:42:30 <xadap> this time the computer crashed down, not the nokia
Nov 11 18:47:40 <xadap_> well
Nov 11 18:47:49 <xadap_> seatbelt installed, nokia 770 rebooted
Nov 11 18:48:00 <xadap_> and cpu monitor doesn't work yet :/
Nov 11 18:52:08 <xadap> haha
Nov 11 18:52:11 <xadap> working!
Nov 11 18:52:11 <_Monkey> i guess working is a big word, bug the content-type is right
Nov 11 18:52:37 <xadap> in OS2006 mistral it used to be enabled automatically
Nov 11 18:52:56 <xadap> in bora, i have to enable it from the control panel
Nov 11 18:55:48 <l7> does anyone know if the n800 or n810 will support 16 or 32 gb cards?
Nov 11 18:55:55 <l7> mainly wondering about the n800
Nov 11 18:57:35 <penguinbait> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=93314
Nov 11 18:57:49 <penguinbait> 16GB looks like people are using it
Nov 11 18:58:12 <zerojay> Gotta be super expensive.
Nov 11 18:59:18 <l7> penguinbait: ah yeah, i'm reading that one
Nov 11 18:59:42 <l7> There have been some problems with (in particular) SDHC cards, which could cause data/card corruptions. This has been resolved in the latest OS revision, but technically speaking the problems were caused by cards not fully following the SDHC specifications.
Nov 11 18:59:48 <l7> Thus, Nokia is presumably a bit conservative with what they 'officially' support, but as mentioned above all types of cards should work as far as the filesystem/addressing is concerned.
Nov 11 19:00:04 <l7> the spectre of data corruption concerns me
Nov 11 19:00:11 <penguinbait> It was a kernel bug
Nov 11 19:00:28 <penguinbait> nothing to do with not following specs?
Nov 11 19:00:53 <zerojay> It was a kernel bug, however the reason the cards died is because they weren't following the specs.
Nov 11 19:01:09 <l7> he said it was caused by the SDHC cards not following spec..
Nov 11 19:01:13 <penguinbait> Ah, I had kingston,
Nov 11 19:01:23 <l7> hmm, any problems with kingston?
Nov 11 19:01:28 <penguinbait> lots of corruption, but the card was always recoverable
Nov 11 19:01:41 <l7> hrm
Nov 11 19:01:42 <penguinbait> not with new firmware
Nov 11 19:01:51 <xadap> only with SD?
Nov 11 19:01:51 <zerojay> That's the worst that should happen with cards that follow spec.
Nov 11 19:01:56 <penguinbait> I have 8gb Kingston
Nov 11 19:02:27 <l7> i guess one could use a 16gb or 32gb card for mp3s / movies / maps
Nov 11 19:02:37 <l7> or whatever you have a second copy of
Nov 11 19:02:47 <l7> and keep stuff like email on an 8gb
Nov 11 19:02:52 <l7> if you were really worried
Nov 11 19:03:30 <zerojay> As long as you know how to properly use cards, you should be fine.
Nov 11 19:03:42 <zerojay> Though it appears that not many do know how to use them properly.
Nov 11 19:03:43 <Andy80> one question about os2008: video call is available only with Gizmo or with Skype too?
Nov 11 19:03:50 <l7> and as long as the brand is legit i suppose
Nov 11 19:03:57 <l7> has anyone had experience with a-data?
Nov 11 19:04:12 <zerojay> Andy80: Video calling is available in IT2008.. it's the final version of the RTCOMM beta.
Nov 11 19:04:27 <zerojay> So far just works tablet to tablet though as far as I know.
Nov 11 19:04:40 <zerojay> Skype doesn't have video calling on the tablets.
Nov 11 19:04:41 <l7> i've found mentions of a-data cards corrupting data or being excessively fragile
Nov 11 19:05:00 <l7> i guess you pays your money and takes your chances
Nov 11 19:05:00 <Andy80> zerojay: so, it only works with Gizmo, right?
Nov 11 19:05:29 <zerojay> Well, with a beta of Gizmo it worked the one time I tried it.
Nov 11 19:05:34 <zerojay> But it's all very experimental.
Nov 11 19:05:46 <zerojay> Don't buy a tablet expecting to video call anyone.
Nov 11 19:06:24 <Andy80> mmm... so what is the application that better support video calling on os2008 ?
Nov 11 19:07:04 <zerojay> ...
Nov 11 19:07:24 <penguinbait> I am hoping 2008OS brings 800 and 810 together for vide calling
Nov 11 19:07:24 <Andy80> sorry... maybe I didn't understand something :\
Nov 11 19:08:03 <Andy80> is it only supported by os2008 API's?
Nov 11 19:08:11 <zerojay> penguinbait: Pretty sure we'll be able to do N800 -> N810 without a problem.
Nov 11 19:08:35 <penguinbait> Are the camer specs better on 810?
Nov 11 19:08:35 <zerojay> Andy80: Unless you have a tablet at both ends, there is no video calling solution for you.
Nov 11 19:08:41 <zerojay> penguinbait: I believe so.
Nov 11 19:08:49 <zerojay> penguinbait: Maybe even VGA.
Nov 11 19:09:09 <penguinbait> I hope so
Nov 11 19:09:14 <zerojay> Andy80: Gizmo has a beta, but it doesn't work very well and I believe it was recently removed.
Nov 11 19:09:23 <penguinbait> God I wish it was released
Nov 11 19:09:26 <Andy80> zerojay: ok... so only support from a tablet to another... ok.
Nov 11 19:09:34 <zerojay> For now, yes.
Nov 11 19:09:42 <zerojay> Nokia's working on something for it though, I'm pretty sure.
Nov 11 19:10:01 <zerojay> To replace the call invitation beta they used to have (and that I used to use a lot).
Nov 11 19:11:12 <penguinbait> They need to deliver a useable product, that call invitation was garbage
Nov 11 19:11:34 <zerojay> Well, it was labeled a beta so that's kind of to be expected.
Nov 11 19:11:40 <zerojay> It didn't work all that well.
Nov 11 19:12:31 <penguinbait> Lots of people bought n800 thinking they could wasily make video calls
Nov 11 19:12:37 <penguinbait> that was not the case
Nov 11 19:12:45 <zerojay> Honestly, I don't really care about video calling anymore anyways.
Nov 11 19:12:57 <penguinbait> s/wasily/easily
Nov 11 19:13:05 <penguinbait> me either
Nov 11 19:13:17 <zerojay> The people I used to video call are now living with me so...
Nov 11 19:13:27 <penguinbait> not the point though, cant advertise it then deliver nothing
Nov 11 19:13:30 <kpel> so you can't hide from them :)
Nov 11 19:13:38 <zerojay> They didn't advertize it. I don't think.
Nov 11 19:14:12 <penguinbait> Internet calling with web camera
Nov 11 19:14:14 <penguinbait> ?
Nov 11 19:14:22 <zerojay> Where's that?
Nov 11 19:14:29 <penguinbait> I am reading my box
Nov 11 19:14:32 <penguinbait> :)
Nov 11 19:14:42 <zerojay> It had that.
Nov 11 19:14:49 <zerojay> They took it away, but they had that.
Nov 11 19:15:05 <zerojay> I just didn't remember it being on the box.
Nov 11 19:15:30 <penguinbait> It was, and is on mine,not sure if they removed it?
Nov 11 19:15:43 <zerojay> I'll take a look at mine.
Nov 11 19:16:13 <penguinbait> right on top,of the back, third sentence
Nov 11 19:16:30 <kpel> so you can't do a video call using a google account ?
Nov 11 19:16:31 <penguinbait> Agaoin I dont use iteither
Nov 11 19:16:41 <penguinbait> but
Nov 11 19:17:04 <hexa> it's in their flash anim for the n800 too ...
Nov 11 19:18:17 <penguinbait> On another note, I got most of Koffice going this morning :)
Nov 11 19:18:26 <penguinbait> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11590&goto=newpost
Nov 11 19:18:56 <penguinbait> Kspread and Kchart are the only ones not working in the suite
Nov 11 19:20:39 <TPC-> can you draw in krita using the touch screen?
Nov 11 19:21:15 <zerojay> Krita should allow you to even use different pressures.
Nov 11 19:22:18 <timelE61i> today's gem....
Nov 11 19:22:21 <penguinbait> Not sure if Krita compiled, loking now
Nov 11 19:22:22 <penguinbait> ?
Nov 11 19:22:29 <timelE61i> application manager:
Nov 11 19:23:09 <timelE61i> (i) Unable to install %s.
Nov 11 19:23:15 <zerojay> lol
Nov 11 19:23:26 <timelE61i>    Incompatible application package.
Nov 11 19:23:29 <zerojay> Over escaping?
Nov 11 19:23:35 <timelE61i> (OK)
Nov 11 19:23:51 <timelE61i> dunno. Not quite sure i want to look
Nov 11 19:24:13 <timelE61i> i'd vote for undertesting
Nov 11 19:24:19 <zerojay> timelE61i: E-mail me your meatspace address.
Nov 11 19:24:28 <penguinbait> No Krita either, I may have chosen not to compile it because of deps, I will see if I can get it working also when I try to fix kspread and kchart
Nov 11 19:24:51 <timelE61i> Zerojay: k, lemme walk home
Nov 11 19:25:22 <zerojay> timelE61i: XviD AVIs burned to DVD alright with you?
Nov 11 19:31:15 * timelE61i shrugs
Nov 11 19:31:46 <timelE61i> include commercials :)
Nov 11 19:32:09 <zerojay> Haha.. miss Colgate and McDonalds commercials?
Nov 11 19:32:32 <timelE61i> we don't get high quality ones here
Nov 11 19:33:20 <zerojay> Well, these already have commercials cut out, but I could always download a torrent of commercials. heh.
Nov 11 19:36:29 <timelyx> we do actually have those two, although they don't seem to be very good and i don't understand them
Nov 11 19:36:43 <zerojay> Hah.
Nov 11 19:53:22 <alterego> Woo, we have compilation success!
Nov 11 19:53:56 <timelyx> what'd you build?
Nov 11 19:54:12 <alterego> My rubypluginloader
Nov 11 19:54:34 <alterego> For making desktop plugins, (task navigator, home and statusbar)
Nov 11 19:54:48 <alterego> writen in ruby.
Nov 11 19:56:34 <alterego> Now I've gotta figure out how to use it :)
Nov 11 19:57:39 <alterego> That is .. Figure out where to put my loader.
Nov 11 19:58:16 <timelyx> heh, they made an edward scissorhands ballet
Nov 11 19:59:16 <db48x> does the kernel on the n800 support FUSE?
Nov 11 19:59:38 * timelyx ponders
Nov 11 19:59:45 <timelyx> usbnet is a loadable kernel module, no?
Nov 11 20:00:16 <kulve> db48x: probably no, but shouldn't be a problem to compile
Nov 11 20:00:21 <kulve> timelyx: iirc, yes
Nov 11 20:00:28 <timelyx> if so, the question is basically "does fuse build against kernel x", no?
Nov 11 20:00:48 <timelyx> or are not all loadable kernel modules created equal?
Nov 11 20:01:05 * timelyx wonders what "Cat's Eye" is
Nov 11 20:01:21 <alterego> Bah.
Nov 11 20:01:31 <alterego> Compiling a kernel module isn't easy for MAemo.
Nov 11 20:02:13 <db48x> alterego: what does it entail?
Nov 11 20:02:14 <kulve> alterego: I disagree..
Nov 11 20:02:30 <zerojay> timelyx: You think the tablets have some embarassing bugs..
Nov 11 20:02:44 <zerojay> timelyx: Guitar Hero 3 for the Wii.. a music game...
Nov 11 20:02:47 <timelyx> i'll gladly trade
Nov 11 20:02:58 <timelyx> i think i've offered more than enough bugs :)
Nov 11 20:03:14 <zerojay> timelyx: Their final build has forced mono sound.
Nov 11 20:03:24 <timelyx> lol
Nov 11 20:03:48 <zerojay> "oops, forgot to remove that one define there..."
Nov 11 20:03:53 <db48x> heh
Nov 11 20:04:12 <db48x> ok, I've got a working maemo-summoner on my n800
Nov 11 20:04:29 <db48x> I just can't install that particular deb, so I'll have to keep this separate copy around
Nov 11 20:05:20 <zerojay> Wii fan on Digg: "My TV only supports mono anyway, but I don't think many people can tell the difference unless they are audiophiles."
Nov 11 20:05:21 <db48x> hrm. why do I get a permission denied when I try to run something from /media/mmc2?
Nov 11 20:05:21 <zerojay> wtf
Nov 11 20:05:34 <kulve> db48x: it's mounted noexec
Nov 11 20:05:39 <elb> HAH, I was worried about disk space on this laptop, and there's apparently 10GB of an unused Linux install here :-P
Nov 11 20:05:40 <db48x> zerojay: hah
Nov 11 20:05:41 <db48x> kulve: ahhh
Nov 11 20:06:01 * elb rejiggers scratchbox to be on one of those partitions
Nov 11 20:06:02 * timelyx waves goodbye to elb's linux install
Nov 11 20:06:24 <elb> Linux has been installed twice on this laptop since ... looks like about 2004
Nov 11 20:06:28 <elb> 2005, rather
Nov 11 20:06:30 <elb> WHO KNEW
Nov 11 20:06:31 <timelyx> zerojay: they still make tvs w/ mono out?
Nov 11 20:07:03 <zerojay> timelyx: Like I said, he's a Wii fan. He'll say anything to try not to look bad.
Nov 11 20:07:25 <db48x> timelyx: most cheap tvs are still mono
Nov 11 20:08:00 <db48x> though I don't think I've ever seen one that didn't have stereo output
Nov 11 20:08:18 <zerojay> db48x: Even cheap TVs sold these days have shit like SVIDEO and Stereo.. even simulated surround.
Nov 11 20:08:54 <db48x> zerojay: hmm. the cheapo I have is mono, but it has svideo out
Nov 11 20:09:07 <db48x> err, svideo input
Nov 11 20:09:49 * timelyx sighs
Nov 11 20:09:59 <timelyx> are Axe commercials as annoying in the states as they are here?
Nov 11 20:11:10 <kulve> try asking some non-maemo -channel..
Nov 11 20:11:19 <elb> timelyx: yes
Nov 11 20:11:28 <db48x> commercials are almost uniformly annoying
Nov 11 20:11:33 <timelyx> kulve: wfm :)
Nov 11 20:11:45 * db48x makes a backup
Nov 11 20:12:04 * elb hijacks a 6GB used-to-be-FC partition for /scratchbox
Nov 11 20:12:17 <db48x> why does the backup utility limit what characters you can use in the filename?
Nov 11 20:12:32 <timelyx> the target is a fat volume
Nov 11 20:12:38 <timelyx> what character are you trying to use?
Nov 11 20:12:45 <db48x> a /
Nov 11 20:12:53 <pupnik> haha
Nov 11 20:12:54 <db48x> oh, right. it's fat
Nov 11 20:13:06 <elb> / is an invalid character on *any* Unix filesystem
Nov 11 20:13:16 <elb> at least, as far as the VFS is concerned
Nov 11 20:13:26 <elb> (it's the directory separator)
Nov 11 20:13:37 <timelyx> elb: ntfs has a way for it to work :)
Nov 11 20:13:47 <timelyx> it sticks it into a custom codepage
Nov 11 20:13:52 <elb> timelyx: presumably they fix it before the VFS gets to it?
Nov 11 20:13:55 <timelyx> (used for services for macintosh)
Nov 11 20:14:01 <timelyx> elb: no need
Nov 11 20:14:03 <elb> (so that, from the Unix side, it looks like som eother character)
Nov 11 20:14:04 <db48x> yea, I suppose that's true
Nov 11 20:14:05 <timelyx> it isn't "/"
Nov 11 20:14:12 <elb> right, that's my point
Nov 11 20:14:16 <timelyx> it's some unicode character ...
Nov 11 20:14:24 <alterego> Right, I know where the loader goes .. Now to write a home plugin ..
Nov 11 20:14:26 <timelyx> but for services for mac, it's a real "/"
Nov 11 20:14:33 <elb> sure
Nov 11 20:14:34 <timelyx> because in mac, the path sep was ":"
Nov 11 20:14:45 <elb> Unicode has a 'record separator' character
Nov 11 20:15:01 <timelyx> they didn't use that
Nov 11 20:15:03 <elb> it may even have a path separator character, I forget
Nov 11 20:15:10 <timelyx> because they had a bunch of characters they needed to map
Nov 11 20:15:17 <elb> which would be the appropriate *disk* format for a Unicode FS; but the Unix VFS in Linux would still reserve / :-)
Nov 11 20:16:02 * timelyx sighs
Nov 11 20:16:11 <timelyx> filing a bug against application manager is too hard
Nov 11 20:20:44 <db48x> hrm
Nov 11 20:20:50 <db48x> oh
Nov 11 20:21:00 <db48x> odd, I'm running Opera again somehow
Nov 11 20:21:48 * db48x sighs
Nov 11 20:26:46 <db48x> somethign is screwy
Nov 11 20:26:52 <db48x> I can't get this thing to use microb
Nov 11 20:28:28 <db48x> maybe that package isn't actually installed, even though it gives me the option to use it
Nov 11 20:29:47 <alterego> Unknown Plugin Loader type: ruby :(
Nov 11 20:29:52 <alterego> That's helpful ..
Nov 11 20:29:54 <alterego> :)
Nov 11 20:37:57 * db48x gives up for the day
Nov 11 20:38:02 <db48x> stupid browser is crashing now
Nov 11 20:47:51 <maddler> damn... power failure...
Nov 11 20:53:50 <bedboi> is there any rumor about the OS2008 release date?
Nov 11 20:53:58 <alterego> ~1 week
Nov 11 20:54:07 <alterego> People are so impatient.
Nov 11 20:54:10 <Andy80> :)
Nov 11 20:54:19 <alterego> January.
Nov 11 20:54:23 <alterego> You'll have it by then.
Nov 11 20:54:41 <Andy80> maddler: the correct english way to say that is "la maiala dell'enel !!!" :D
Nov 11 20:56:43 <maddler> Andy80: "that piggish enel!!!"
Nov 11 20:57:01 <maddler> btw... it was caused by a defective light switch...
Nov 11 20:57:12 <Andy80> maddler: no... if you don't say it in tuscany dialect, it doesn't have any sense ;)
Nov 11 20:58:04 <maddler> and before discovering that I feared it was a power plug hidden by a HUGE wardrobe!
Nov 11 20:58:23 <maddler> Andy80: TRUE!
Nov 11 20:58:23 <maddler> :D
Nov 11 20:59:00 <maddler> btw... yes... having a local maemo-day sounds nice...
Nov 11 20:59:07 <maddler> Andy80: do you know Giskard? :)
Nov 11 20:59:20 <Andy80> no... what/who is?
Nov 11 20:59:28 <maddler> he's from Torino
Nov 11 20:59:42 <maddler> a Gnome/Maemo hacker... :)
Nov 11 20:59:59 <Andy80> ah no, don't know him
Nov 11 21:00:12 <maddler> ok...
Nov 11 21:00:23 <maddler> btw... we could try to figure out what could be done...
Nov 11 21:00:31 <maddler> and what we could do alltogether...
Nov 11 21:01:37 <Andy80> maddler: we should find a mid-way place to organize something. mmm.... Firenze would be great :)
Nov 11 21:02:18 <maddler> why not...
Nov 11 21:11:55 <l7> hey, are there any n800 users here who use it with a mac?
Nov 11 21:12:20 <l7> i heard that bluetooth file exchange won't work properly with an n800 and a mac :\
Nov 11 21:12:25 <alterego> Only when it's raining.
Nov 11 21:13:20 <l7> hmm, can you elaborate?
Nov 11 21:13:42 <Luria> unless it's tuesday
Nov 11 21:16:18 <alterego> Yes, Tuesdays I stay at home. So it doesn't matter if it's raining.
Nov 11 21:17:08 <maddler> l7: try asking on maemo users' mailing list...
Nov 11 21:17:39 <Luria> damn, heavy js is screwing with my firefox
Nov 11 21:18:07 <alterego> Or ITT
Nov 11 21:18:16 <Luria> i suspect im going to end up delteing my profile.
Nov 11 21:19:49 <l7> maddler: hmm ok
Nov 11 21:21:01 <alterego> So, I've wrote a plugin loader.
Nov 11 21:21:06 <alterego> But it's not being recognised ..
Nov 11 21:21:31 <alterego> Should there be a file describing the plugin loader?
Nov 11 21:21:41 <alterego> Or does hildon dynamically load them all?
Nov 11 21:37:19 * DRoBeR is away: This geek is out of order
Nov 11 21:41:15 <l7> i http://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/sys/474690035.html
Nov 11 21:53:44 <eichi> is there ettercap and wireshark for maemo?
Nov 11 21:56:43 <pupnik> "There is no try, only do, or do not." - Yoda
Nov 11 21:57:38 <Andy80> what is the wifi chipset of the n810?
Nov 11 22:00:16 <maddler> hmmm...
Nov 11 22:01:37 <Sulis> there's an n810?
Nov 11 22:02:29 <zeenix> Sulis: yes! welcome back to planet earth btw :)
Nov 11 22:03:07 <Andy80> :D
Nov 11 22:03:29 <Sulis> heh, you mean planet maemo
Nov 11 22:04:07 <Andy80> no no... he means planet earth :)
Nov 11 22:04:30 <Andy80> Sulis: http://www.nokia.com/n810
Nov 11 22:05:49 <maddler> Andy80: I'd say Conexant 3110
Nov 11 22:06:01 <maddler> at least from dmesg output...
Nov 11 22:06:27 <Andy80> maddler: dmesg?! uhm... how can you run a dmesg on a n810 right NOW :P ?
Nov 11 22:07:12 <maddler> ehhh... who knows...
Nov 11 22:08:19 <Sulis> Andy80, i believe that planet maemo is more acurate, knowledge of the n810 is not widespread on planet earth :P
Nov 11 22:09:16 <Andy80> Sulis: not for the moment :)
Nov 11 22:09:40 <pupnik> 400 just *sounds* so much faster than 333
Nov 11 22:10:09 <Andy80> well... it will have a faster cpu, that's right
Nov 11 22:10:28 <maddler> pupnik: hehehe... sounds so...
Nov 11 22:10:29 <maddler> brb
Nov 11 22:14:26 <pupnik>  looks like i'm not going to be getting pingus going fast for 770.  will concentrate on things that can run full speed now.
Nov 11 22:24:43 <Jiten> pupnik: I think I heard that ITOS2008 would run n800's processor at 400Mhz also. Has Nokia changes their minds?
Nov 11 22:25:01 <maddler> jiten... hmmm... kinda strange...
Nov 11 22:25:15 <maddler> I wouldn't trust...
Nov 11 22:25:27 <Jiten> it only runs 330 currently to conserve battery I heard.
Nov 11 22:25:44 <maddler> never heard about that...
Nov 11 22:25:47 * Sho_ has heard some conflicting info on the CPU speed, too ..
Nov 11 22:26:11 <Jiten> there is a new system for powersaving that involves changing the frequency on the fly.
Nov 11 22:26:30 <maddler> yes... slowing down CPU when not needed...
Nov 11 22:26:50 <maddler> but it's kinda hard to believe nokia is going to overclock N800 CPU...
Nov 11 22:26:55 * Jaffa hasn't heard anything conflicting about it. The N810 has the same processor as the N800. IT OS 2008 uses a more recent kernel with better power management and runs that processor at 400MHz maximum, with more intelligent speed throttling.
Nov 11 22:27:10 <Jiten> it's not overclock, the chip is capable of 400Mhz
Nov 11 22:27:18 <maddler> doh! :D
Nov 11 22:27:22 <maddler> even better then! :D
Nov 11 22:27:31 <Sho_> Jaffa: Makes sense
Nov 11 22:27:59 <Jiten> in fact, most of the time it's more downclock ;)
Nov 11 22:29:36 <Jiten> anyway, n800 is at quite affordable price currently :)
Nov 11 22:29:58 <maddler> Jiten: yep... 259 is a great price for it...
Nov 11 22:30:06 <maddler> TTL here...
Nov 11 22:30:12 <maddler> good night folks! :D
Nov 11 22:30:17 <Jaffa> g'night
Nov 11 22:30:23 * Jaffa is going to bed too
Nov 11 22:30:32 <maddler> :)
Nov 11 22:34:22 * Jaffa wonders how long it'll be into next week before he's missing his N800 :-/
Nov 11 22:36:05 * Jaffa gone.
Nov 11 22:36:07 <pupnik> cu
Nov 11 22:41:46 <pupnik> http://img.cifrovik.ru/images/publish/articles/10312/nokL2.jpg
Nov 11 22:41:48 <pupnik> pretty
Nov 11 22:50:11 <bedboi> pupnik: yep it looks cool
Nov 11 22:50:44 <bedboi> oh, website is now really better
Nov 11 23:22:19 <ywwg> I'm on ubuntu gutsy and I installed scratchbox, and now I'm trying to install python-maemo, but dpkg-reconfigure is not installed.  how best to fix this?
Nov 11 23:27:37 <lopz> brb
Nov 11 23:39:45 <timelyx> maddler: the key about the cpu clock
Nov 11 23:39:48 <timelyx> is that there's a trade off
Nov 11 23:39:56 <timelyx> you can either run the cpu at full or the dsp at full, but not both
Nov 11 23:40:06 <timelyx> you can also choose to run both at less than full...
Nov 11 23:41:17 <timelyx> hrm, to test bluetooth on my mac, i'd have to fimnd my bluetooth usb widget
Nov 11 23:41:27 <timelyx> it's unfortunately very small, and my desktop is very messy
Nov 11 23:45:25 <elb> so, I can't sb-conf select another target, because scratchbox says I have a session running -- but I've killed everything, and it doesn't seem to matter
Nov 11 23:45:30 <elb> what might I be missing?
Nov 11 23:45:38 <elb> (killed everything in ps)
Nov 11 23:47:25 <timelyx> l7: yes bluetooth file exchange does not seem to approve of my n800
Nov 11 23:48:07 <elb> _|Nix|_: I no longer have an af-sb-init.sh, either, but I did at one time
Nov 11 23:49:07 <_|Nix|_> elb: AFAIK only x86 targets have af-sb-init.sh
Nov 11 23:49:25 <elb> well ... I sb-conf select'd CHINOOK_ARMEL, then ran it, and it started
Nov 11 23:49:40 <elb> and it was slow, and there were qemu processes doing work, so I assumed it was working ;-)
Nov 11 23:50:09 <_|Nix|_> ... and did it show up in xephyr?
Nov 11 23:50:14 <elb> yeah
Nov 11 23:50:22 <_|Nix|_> Wow!
Nov 11 23:50:47 <_|Nix|_> I don't get it. I don't have an af-sb-init.sh even after I just ran apt-get upgrade
Nov 11 23:51:06 <elb> I can't even run apt-get upgrade ;-)
Nov 11 23:51:11 <elb> or apt-get update,f or that matter
Nov 11 23:51:21 <_|Nix|_> elb: Right, because of that lock thing.
Nov 11 23:51:27 <timelyx> af-sb-init.sh
Nov 11 23:51:30 <timelyx> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/find?string=af-sb-init.sh
Nov 11 23:51:36 <timelyx>  /hildon-initscripts-1.12/af-sb-init.sh.in
Nov 11 23:51:46 <timelyx> do you have that package?
Nov 11 23:52:10 <_|Nix|_> Wha ... ? Huh ? Me ?
Nov 11 23:52:16 <timelyx> sure?
Nov 11 23:52:33 <elb> dpkg -l returns nothing, actually
Nov 11 23:53:10 <_|Nix|_> Do you know how to check what arch dpkg and apt think they're on?
Nov 11 23:53:33 <_|Nix|_> I've found a combination of scratchbox parameters thar result in them thinking they're "arm" rather than "armel".
Nov 11 23:53:38 <_|Nix|_> That might be it.
Nov 11 23:54:18 <elb> I just sb-conf rs'd and it's better :-P
Nov 11 23:54:37 <_|Nix|_> "better"?
Nov 11 23:54:48 <elb> and I did *not* have hildon-initscripts -- installing it now
Nov 11 23:55:14 <timelyx> nice
Nov 11 23:55:22 <timelyx> trying to paste to my mac gave me:
Nov 11 23:55:26 <timelyx> 1. Nothing to paste (info banner)
Nov 11 23:55:32 <timelyx> 2. (i) Operation failed
Nov 11 23:55:34 <timelyx> (OK)
Nov 11 23:55:35 <elb> "better" in that dpkg-l now lists some packages
Nov 11 23:55:37 <timelyx> (dialog)
Nov 11 23:55:40 <l7> timelyx: hrm, that is too bad
Nov 11 23:55:58 <_|Nix|_> elb: OK, good ... must've gotten rid of that lock issue.
Nov 11 23:56:00 <l7> i wonder if bluetooth file exchange is a problem on apple's end, or nokia's
Nov 11 23:56:15 <elb> _|Nix|_: I think the sb-conf rs just blew all that away
Nov 11 23:56:16 <timelyx> l7: if someone reminds me tomorrow, i could bug a mac guy near connectivity
Nov 11 23:56:18 <timelyx> or is it todya?
Nov 11 23:56:21 <l7> i guess one could rsync, but it's not as elegant
Nov 11 23:56:45 <l7> er, i dunno
Nov 11 23:57:03 <l7> timelyx: well let me know what you discover :)
Nov 11 23:57:27 <timelyx> someone would have to remind me
Nov 11 23:57:32 <_|Nix|_> elb: What about af-sb-init.sh? DO you still have it?
Nov 11 23:57:33 <timelyx> i have dozens of other headaches to deal w/
Nov 11 23:57:37 <l7> ah
Nov 11 23:58:02 <l7> i just saw a youtube video where someone mentioned they had the same problem with bluetooth file exchange
Nov 11 23:58:52 <l7> hmm, where is it?
Nov 11 23:59:14 <l7> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8qZRRh1USs
Nov 11 23:59:22 <elb> _|Nix|_: I'll let you know when this install finishes
Nov 11 23:59:29 <_|Nix|_> elb: OK. And I
Nov 11 23:59:34 <l7> so i have a feeling the bluetooth problem is systemic unfortunately
Nov 11 23:59:37 <_|Nix|_> 'm setting up chinook-i386
Nov 11 23:59:42 <timelyx> l7: do people have something against filing bugs in bugs.maemo.org?
Nov 11 23:59:53 <timelyx> oddly enough the connectivity people inform me they check there for bugs
Nov 11 23:59:55 <l7> timelyx: i don't have a n800 yet
Nov 12 00:00:16 <l7> just trying to do my homework before buying it
Nov 12 00:00:29 <l7> i suppose i could still file a bug report, but i'm not sure it would be useful
Nov 12 00:00:30 <_|Nix|_> elb: ... but I'm rapidly running out of consciousness, unfortunately ...
Nov 12 00:01:37 <elb> _|Nix|_: all right, I should probably do some work, anyway
Nov 12 00:01:43 <elb> if this works, I'll let you know
Nov 12 00:02:08 <_|Nix|_> elb: Alright. Cool. I'll get Pidgin built and running on i386 ...
Nov 12 00:02:16 <_|Nix|_> ... Chinook.
Nov 12 00:02:21 * timelyx grumbles
Nov 12 00:02:27 <timelyx> that's the second lame app that has an Exit menu item
Nov 12 00:02:37 <timelyx> not to mention the fact that it's a Status Bar applet!
Nov 12 00:02:55 <_|Nix|_> timelyx: What, Pidgin?
Nov 12 00:03:16 <timelyx> devicescape
Nov 12 00:03:19 <timelyx> the first being map
Nov 12 00:03:24 <shackan> _|Nix|_: is piding ever going to do video?
Nov 12 00:03:31 <shackan> *pidgin, sorry
Nov 12 00:03:46 <_|Nix|_> *shrug*
Nov 12 00:03:53 <_|Nix|_> No idea ...
Nov 12 00:04:08 <shackan> upstream seems not to care
Nov 12 00:04:30 <elb> shackan: if someone implements it, sure
Nov 12 00:04:38 <timelyx> expecting downstream to care is absolutely unreasonable
Nov 12 00:04:42 <timelyx> where do you guys get off?
Nov 12 00:04:46 <shackan> elb: heh
Nov 12 00:04:47 <elb> there are a lot of people willing to ask about it, but no one willing to implement it
Nov 12 00:04:49 * timelyx grumbles and goes to bed
Nov 12 00:05:11 <elb> there seems to be a "those who can, don't care" problem with video
Nov 12 00:05:31 <timelyx> that assumes people can
Nov 12 00:05:53 <shackan> well, it's not rocket science
Nov 12 00:06:05 <timelyx> it also assumes that everyone is idle
Nov 12 00:06:14 <elb> it must be, because no one who asks about it ever does anything
Nov 12 00:06:35 <timelyx> perhaps people who theoretically can practically speaking are busy working to earn money to pay for pizza so they (and their [potential] family) won't starve
Nov 12 00:07:25 <shackan> well, nokia could well do something
Nov 12 00:07:29 <_|Nix|_> timelyx: If that were the situation of the majority, OSS would've collapsed a long time ago ...
Nov 12 00:07:43 <pupnik> oss is all about caring
Nov 12 00:07:55 <shackan> I mean, they popped a webcam in there, but no way to make calls with it
Nov 12 00:07:55 <timelyx> _|Nix|_: the majority of oss is sponsored and hence directed
Nov 12 00:08:10 <timelyx> it just happens that sponsors tend to have generally reasonable and useful interests
Nov 12 00:08:10 <_|Nix|_> timelyx: ... and it got there, how?
Nov 12 00:08:11 <elb> Pidgin is just about entirely unsponsored
Nov 12 00:08:15 <elb> and directed only by its developers
Nov 12 00:08:38 <elb> ... none of whom have a web cam, or at least want to use one to voice chat
Nov 12 00:08:54 <timelyx> _|Nix|_: *shrug*, mozilla has always been sponsored
Nov 12 00:09:03 <timelyx> netbeans was always sponsored
Nov 12 00:09:07 <timelyx> openoffice was always sponsored
Nov 12 00:09:12 <timelyx> eclipse was always sponsored
Nov 12 00:09:16 <pupnik> good points
Nov 12 00:09:17 <timelyx> sp
Nov 12 00:09:21 <timelyx> red hat  was always sponsored
Nov 12 00:09:21 <_|Nix|_> GNU?
Nov 12 00:09:26 <timelyx> ubuntu was always sponsored
Nov 12 00:09:34 <daniels> timelyx: none of the first four projects you mention have a remotely viablecommunity
Nov 12 00:09:53 <timelyx> daniels: is maemo a viable community?
Nov 12 00:09:55 <shackan> elb: okay, but since nokia designed a webcam for the device, it's assumed there has to be a way to use it other than taking small blurred pictures when you're bored
Nov 12 00:09:55 <daniels> the fifth has a passable one, the sixth is very similar to maemo, community-wise, but with more contributions, admittedly
Nov 12 00:09:58 <daniels> timelyx: no.
Nov 12 00:10:05 <timelyx> qt was always sponsored
Nov 12 00:10:10 <shackan> hi daniels
Nov 12 00:10:15 <daniels> yes, and it has no community contributors.
Nov 12 00:10:16 <timelyx> (although i suppose calling qt a community is questionable)
Nov 12 00:10:21 <daniels> shackan: hi
Nov 12 00:10:22 <_Monkey> what's up, daniels
Nov 12 00:10:30 * timelyx kicks _matthia1_
Nov 12 00:10:33 * timelyx kicks _Monkey
Nov 12 00:10:55 <pupnik> thanks for all the help, daniels
Nov 12 00:11:16 <elb> and, of all those projects, the only ones I use are moz and Ubuntu ;-)
Nov 12 00:11:19 <daniels> pupnik: i hope you don't mean in this channel :)
Nov 12 00:11:28 <pupnik> no, mailing list
Nov 12 00:11:49 <timelyx> i'm not really sure what people would say about gcc
Nov 12 00:11:56 <timelyx> practically speaking, at this point, it's sponsored
Nov 12 00:12:06 <timelyx> but i don't really want to play that game, the same applies for the kernel today
Nov 12 00:12:40 <timelyx> as for gnu, fsf is a sponsor, it might not sponsor many people, but it does technically sponsor at least 2 (iirc 4?)
Nov 12 00:13:05 <daniels> pupnik: ah, np.  i'm not subscribed these days, but feel free to email me directly on anything related to x or the display/video.
Nov 12 00:13:08 <timelyx> but sure, for some amorphous definition of gnu ...
Nov 12 00:13:27 <timelyx> cygwin/cygnus are another set of sponsoreds
Nov 12 00:13:44 <pupnik> my issues are all resolved (pixel doubling headaches)
Nov 12 00:13:51 <daniels> timelyx: it's not about who pays it, it's about the development style.  the kernel may be purely corporate, but it's such a diverse range of interests as to not matter, and it's a brutally open source development style.
Nov 12 00:13:55 <daniels> pupnik: ah, sweet.
Nov 12 00:14:12 <daniels> pupnik: moz doesn't seem to have ever had anything remotely resembling an open source/community development style.
Nov 12 00:14:18 <daniels> s/pupnik/timelyx/, sorry
Nov 12 00:14:24 <shackan> roar, scratchbox is killing me
Nov 12 00:14:35 <daniels> i mean, either you work for netscape/mozilla corporation, or you're irrelevant.
Nov 12 00:14:38 <timelyx> bah, don't you have work tomorrow?
Nov 12 00:14:47 <timelyx> that's untrue
Nov 12 00:15:04 <timelyx> a large portion of the contributors don't work for moco (or its ancestors)
Nov 12 00:15:17 <pupnik> most small-time open source projects are unsponsored and driven by idealism and 'want this to happen'-ness
Nov 12 00:15:26 * timelyx can't remember the last time it was 50%
Nov 12 00:15:37 <timelyx> pupnik: and most die or fade away
Nov 12 00:15:58 <pupnik> so, 90% of business ventures fail in the first year or two
Nov 12 00:16:02 <daniels> timelyx: indeed, i do have work tomorrow.
Nov 12 00:16:05 <shackan> so, I'm running a make file, is makes some object files, but those files are NOT MADE, even if the rule appears to be executed! but if I copy and paste the command from the terminal, the object file is there! please please I've tried for a week to get this damn thing to build
Nov 12 00:16:07 <_|Nix|_> Where's the Chinook i386 rootstrap?
Nov 12 00:16:12 <elb> _|Nix|_: something is broken, but it ran
Nov 12 00:16:22 <daniels> timelyx: well, from my outsider's perspective, i've seen moco seeing volunteers as free work, and that's incredibly depressing, regardless of who does it.
Nov 12 00:16:22 <elb> (it uses a standard Gtk theme, looks like)
Nov 12 00:16:30 <_|Nix|_> elb: Aaaah, OK ...
Nov 12 00:16:42 <timelyx> daniels: i've never worked for nscp/moco
Nov 12 00:16:45 <daniels> shackan: if you haven't declared your dependencies, your rule might not ever get executed
Nov 12 00:16:54 <timelyx> and i've never felt my work was abused by them
Nov 12 00:16:55 <daniels> timelyx: indeed, but have you ever attempted to steer core browser issues?
Nov 12 00:17:00 <timelyx> i do
Nov 12 00:17:04 <timelyx> and have for years
Nov 12 00:17:05 <_|Nix|_> elb: Can you check which package provides af-sb-init.sh?
Nov 12 00:17:07 <daniels> timelyx: no disrespect to bz, but it's not exactlymoco's core business
Nov 12 00:17:11 <pupnik> shackan: it's hard to understand what is wrong by your description
Nov 12 00:17:20 <timelyx> ?
Nov 12 00:17:31 <elb> _|Nix|_: osso-af-sb-startup
Nov 12 00:17:32 <_Monkey> well, osso-af-sb-startup is the package
Nov 12 00:17:37 <timelyx> most of my life in mozilla hasn't been bugzilla developing
Nov 12 00:17:43 <timelyx> that's a recent thing
Nov 12 00:17:49 <timelyx> mostly i was core and other webtools
Nov 12 00:17:51 <daniels> timelyx: okay, i had a somewhatmistaken impression then; apologies
Nov 12 00:17:57 <daniels> (god, this broken spacebar is getting old)
Nov 12 00:17:59 <timelyx> i avoided bugzilla because i didn't want to learn sql
Nov 12 00:18:07 <shackan> daniels, pupnik: I didn't write the makefiles, and outside of sb it builds correctly (it's the llvm compiler btw)
Nov 12 00:18:08 <timelyx> daniels: heh, it replaced my t key on firday
Nov 12 00:18:30 <timelyx> daniels: the problem is that you don't realize just how varied my interests are
Nov 12 00:18:32 <zerojay> timelyx: It's about time. ;)
Nov 12 00:18:39 <timelyx> yeah yeah
Nov 12 00:18:44 <daniels> timelyx: i've been avoiding bugzilla because it'sbugzilla.  hopefully (and i'm told it is) 3.0 is orders of magnitudebetter.
Nov 12 00:18:47 <timelyx> i'm credited in webkit for work in gecko core that hyatt lifted
Nov 12 00:19:03 <daniels> 'lifted' is a harsh word
Nov 12 00:19:10 * timelyx shrugs
Nov 12 00:19:11 <zerojay> I'm working to push bugzilla 3.0 at work.
Nov 12 00:19:19 <timelyx> he copied it and credited the people who touched the file
Nov 12 00:19:20 <_|Nix|_> elb: af-sb-init.sh start doesn't work for me. I get things like "qemu: Unsupported syscall: 307"
Nov 12 00:19:27 <timelyx> i'm not calling it theft
Nov 12 00:19:41 <shackan> pupnik , daniels: it is hard to understand for me too, 'make' appears to work correctly, but the files it's supposed to be building are not there (of course it complains when it tries to link them)
Nov 12 00:19:53 <elb> _|Nix|_: I got a TON of errors, but it ran and splatted up an (ugly) desktop
Nov 12 00:20:05 <daniels> timelyx: sounds like he's following the licenceconditions exactly?
Nov 12 00:20:10 <timelyx> yes
Nov 12 00:20:21 <_|Nix|_> elb: Not for me ... I'll check the target params.
Nov 12 00:20:38 <daniels> well, in that case, implying theft when he was merely following your wishes, seems a little harsh ...
Nov 12 00:20:42 <elb> nothing can connect to dbus
Nov 12 00:20:43 <pupnik> shackan: maybe it is a problem with your specific package - try compiling a known good app
Nov 12 00:20:44 <elb> looks like
Nov 12 00:20:49 <timelyx> i didn't mean to imply theft
Nov 12 00:20:53 <timelyx> do you have a better word?
Nov 12 00:20:58 <timelyx> "used"?
Nov 12 00:20:59 <daniels> 'used'? :)
Nov 12 00:21:02 <daniels> indeed.
Nov 12 00:21:06 * timelyx shrugs
Nov 12 00:21:13 <daniels> possibly just a dialect issue, but lifted for me is stolen
Nov 12 00:21:14 <elb> and it's crying about my UID
Nov 12 00:21:19 <timelyx> using code doesn't give the right meaning in my mind
Nov 12 00:21:28 <timelyx> to me, you use something once and discard it
Nov 12 00:21:33 <timelyx> that's not what's happening here
Nov 12 00:21:49 <shackan> pupnik: it is a problem with this package only, but I have no idea why the object files are not actually produced
Nov 12 00:22:35 <timelyx> daniels: fwiw, i wasn't hired to work on osso's browser because i'm a bugzilla hacker...
Nov 12 00:23:43 <shackan> timelyx: I fail to see the conflict
Nov 12 00:23:46 <elb> "lifted" means stolen to me in the sense of physical property, but in the sense of code it means "taken out of one context to be used in another"
Nov 12 00:24:15 <timelyx> shackan: local external perspective bug
Nov 12 00:24:23 <timelyx> daniels's thinks i'm an ignored bugzilla developer
Nov 12 00:24:27 <timelyx> because i know something about bugzilla
Nov 12 00:24:45 <zerojay> Oh, is that what's going on here?
Nov 12 00:24:48 <daniels> timelyx: nor i x because i'm also an fd.o admin, but remember that a lot of people are hired merely because i have a degree, not because they've participated in projects for years and haveknowledge
Nov 12 00:24:55 <timelyx> but that's not really me, i'm a gecko developer first, and a webtool developer later
Nov 12 00:25:03 <daniels> timelyx: sigh, that's not really what i'm saying and you knowit
Nov 12 00:25:07 <daniels> i guess i do have work tomorrow
Nov 12 00:25:10 <daniels> -> bed
Nov 12 00:25:15 <timelyx> i said that >30mins ago :)
Nov 12 00:25:52 * timelyx really has no idea what point daniels's is trying to make
Nov 12 00:25:55 <zerojay> Maemo isn't a viable community? Mmkay.
Nov 12 00:26:17 <timelyx> personally, i assume that some sizable portion of people nokia hired were hired for specific skill sets
Nov 12 00:26:21 <timelyx> especially if they were relocated
Nov 12 00:26:26 <timelyx> otherwise, why not pick random people?
Nov 12 00:46:29 <_|Nix|_> Boy! I have to install hildon-desktop by hand? Weird!
Nov 12 00:54:06 <zerojay> Greasemonkey addon for Microb was just updated.
Nov 12 00:57:56 <sciboy> Cool.
Nov 12 01:04:58 <edistar> quick question, is there a way to set the n770 as an AP? so as to let other wifi devices log in on the 770?
Nov 12 01:06:06 <_|Nix|_> You gotta love it when a script says "Everything seems to be ok." :o)
Nov 12 01:06:32 <_|Nix|_> Reeks of famous last words :o)
Nov 12 01:11:10 <moofoo> hello, i just installed scratchbox and the chinook sdk, added the extras repo and installed python2.5-runtime. when i try to run the osso_test_app.py example, i get "D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id": No such file or directory". is there a way to fix this?
Nov 12 01:11:29 <pupnik> intel = evil
Nov 12 01:12:47 <pupnik> dunno moofoo - maybe you have to start some dbus service / hal thingy
Nov 12 01:17:57 <moofoo> atleast "af-sb-init.sh start" claimed it started dbus.. .and /etc/init.d/dbus does not seem to do anything .. :-(
Nov 12 01:18:41 <moofoo> and a "/usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system" is actually running.. mh
Nov 12 01:19:13 <ScreamingN800> Anyone tried downloading the N810 flash image and trying it on an N800 yet? Its a different version to the bugfix 2007 image - ergo it must be 2008. And supposedly 2008 is identical for N800 and N810. Or am I deluding myself?
Nov 12 01:20:51 <astro76> ScreamingN800, it's not out yet, but yes apparently it will be identical for both
Nov 12 01:20:53 <moofoo> ah it looks as i have to set the environment variable that dbus-launch prints... hmm
Nov 12 01:21:06 <moofoo> (as in DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS)
Nov 12 01:22:52 <moofoo> another question: does the sdk only contain "Contact" and "Help" as applications or are the apps that supposed to be on the device missing because the 2008 release is not out yet?
Nov 12 01:26:29 <pupnik> the sdk for the 770 did not include several apps
Nov 12 01:26:51 <pupnik> install what you need from a repository
Nov 12 01:27:12 <elb> _|Nix|_: as long as you're still up ... do you have a desktop starting?
Nov 12 01:27:19 <elb> _|Nix|_: and, if so, is it as ugly as mine?  ;-)
Nov 12 01:27:36 <_|Nix|_> elb: I'm running the installer script right now.
Nov 12 01:27:44 <_|Nix|_> elb: I couldn't reproduct whatever it does by hand.
Nov 12 01:27:45 <moofoo> pupnik: what can i install from the repos? it seems i have installed everything with maemo or hildon in it..
Nov 12 01:27:59 <moofoo> or am i missing additional repositories i have to add?
Nov 12 01:28:07 <_|Nix|_> I think I'm'na get rid of the chinook targets I made myself and keep the ones it generates.
Nov 12 01:28:12 <_|Nix|_> Assuming they're any good.
Nov 12 01:29:26 <_|Nix|_> OK. I'm'na call it. I gotta force myself to sleep ...
Nov 12 01:29:34 <elb> I don't seem to have hildon-libs.pc
Nov 12 01:29:48 <_|Nix|_> elb: Nor should you. You should have hildon-1.pc
Nov 12 01:29:53 <_|Nix|_> elb: hildon-libs is deprecated.
Nov 12 01:29:57 <elb> ahhh
Nov 12 01:30:22 <elb> so this example is probably too old
Nov 12 01:30:24 <_|Nix|_> elb: I have hildon-libs in Pidgin because I also support Gregale.
Nov 12 01:30:32 <ScreamingN800> So I AM gonna be the first with 2008 on my N800 ;-)  In fact it looks like you need a real N810 id  to get it -anyone with an N810 gonna sneak me one so I can give it a shot-I promise I won't tell Nokia.
Nov 12 01:42:37 <moofoo> mh python still seems broken in the sdk (or dbus or what ever)... if i start a (hildon) python application it shows up with the default ugly gtk theme and afterwards dbus is totally broken and i can't even launch the "Contacts" application anymore..
Nov 12 01:44:39 <elb> _|Nix|_: running 'adduser' for my user and uid made the theme work
Nov 12 01:46:44 <ScreamingN800> I guess that´s a "No" then. Either that or 226 lurkers are scurrying off trying to get 2008 ahead of me ;-(
Nov 12 01:50:41 <pupnik> congrats ScreamingN800
Nov 12 01:51:14 <ScreamingN800> 4?
Nov 12 01:52:21 <ScreamingN800> NOT getting ahead of the game I get congrats?
Nov 12 01:52:50 <shackan> ScreamingN800: you really can't wait?
Nov 12 01:54:32 <ScreamingN800> I''m like dying over here, aren't you? 400Mhz lower battery consumption, decent browser..need I go on?
Nov 12 01:57:12 <ScreamingN800> On another tack, am I the only one with big probs getting stuff from big tar's onto the MMC cards. Mine dies all the time.
Nov 12 02:05:55 <derf> No.
Nov 12 02:06:11 <derf> I've had problems with _any_ large amount of I/O on the MMC.
Nov 12 02:07:11 <hircus> derf: MMC, as opposed to SD or SDHC?
Nov 12 02:07:21 <ScreamingN800> I've been trying to figure it out and I reckon the only logical place is misplaced spinlock in the mmc driver. I have some rather in-conclusive tests that suggest the driver goes into a non-responsive state when it gets hit by  large quantities of data. Anyone got any other suggestions? I could file a lone bugzilla but soome other peoples experiences might help me frame it so the poor devs can actually find the problem. Xactly derf - tar is
Nov 12 02:07:56 <ScreamingN800> Just a minute let me see what I've got.
Nov 12 02:08:35 <hircus> ScreamingN800: what was that you said earlier about N810 images? I missed the context, wasn't here
Nov 12 02:09:22 <ScreamingN800> TakeMS SD card 155x
Nov 12 02:10:58 <ScreamingN800> hircus: Wondering if we could snarf the flash image for the N810 and use it on N800.
Nov 12 02:11:27 <hircus> ScreamingN800: ah ok. I thought you found a source already
Nov 12 02:12:35 <hircus> that'd be interesting. it should work, more or less, unless the flasher is configured to sniff the device type
Nov 12 02:14:26 <ScreamingN800> I reckon the write rate to the MMC card is abysmal, far less than the read rate which suggests my thoughts abotvspinlocks may becright particularly since it just seems to stop dead when writing.
Nov 12 02:15:30 <FMz_> Anyone know if there is a cron daemon compiled for the n800?
Nov 12 02:15:42 <ScreamingN800> hircus: like I said, I (we <grin>) just need an illicit N810 code. I tried my N800 - no joy.
Nov 12 02:16:31 <hircus> ScreamingN800: count me out -- sold my N800 already :) can't wait for the launch date
Nov 12 02:16:57 <ScreamingN800> s/becright/be  right
Nov 12 02:17:02 <hircus> anyone here thinking of doing Release Parties? like the ones Mozilla and GNOME user groups sometimes do
Nov 12 02:17:28 <ScreamingN800> s/abotvspinlocks/about spinlocks
Nov 12 02:18:04 <hircus> if we can get Nokia to release press kits, with videos, brochures etc.
Nov 12 02:18:25 <ScreamingN800> hircus: I vote for virtual beer - lots of it!
Nov 12 02:18:51 <hircus> ScreamingN800: haha :)
Nov 12 02:19:14 <hircus> speaking of which, how many open source beers are there right now? I've seen mention of two, one European and one American
Nov 12 02:19:40 <ScreamingN800> free as in?
Nov 12 02:20:31 <hircus> em? I said open source -- the exact brewing recipe is available for experimentation
Nov 12 02:20:53 <FMz_> How does one send Escape in osso-xterm?
Nov 12 02:21:12 <hircus> FMz_: the back key, I think
Nov 12 02:21:50 <FMz_> Hrmm.. nope :(
Nov 12 02:23:41 <ScreamingN800> Curly arrow, 2 up from the little house, works for me
Nov 12 02:24:06 <FMz_> :) thanks.... just found it :
Nov 12 02:24:52 <l7> hircus: you sold your n800 to buy the n810?
Nov 12 02:24:58 <l7> ]
Nov 12 02:25:02 <zerojay> l7: I'm doing the same.
Nov 12 02:25:14 <l7> zerojay: hmm, why?
Nov 12 02:25:27 <zerojay> Like I said, to get the N810.
Nov 12 02:25:36 <l7> need for the brighter screen / keyboard  or GPS?
Nov 12 02:26:00 <ScreamingN800> Hey you guys! THE SHIPS NOT  SINKING!
Nov 12 02:26:05 <zerojay> I do a heavy amount of chatting.. and with the N800, I'm far too passive because of being forced to use the touchscreen.
Nov 12 02:26:26 <zerojay> My screen's getting wear from tapping on the virtual keyboard keys.
Nov 12 02:26:34 <l7> i'm just curious what features about the n810 are the most voluable to people
Nov 12 02:26:38 <hircus> l7: yes. you can get a good price from international buyers (Eastern Europe or Asia), since they don't have access to the recent price cuts anyway
Nov 12 02:26:50 <l7> zerojay: even witha  screen  protector?
Nov 12 02:27:03 <zerojay> l7: What screen protector?
Nov 12 02:27:03 <_Monkey> i heard screen protector was yah thick and the credit card was able to work it out
Nov 12 02:27:21 <l7> hircus: ah, where can you sell your n800 internationally?
Nov 12 02:27:23 <hircus> the keyboard, the transflective screen ..
Nov 12 02:27:29 <hircus> l7: eBay
Nov 12 02:27:44 <l7> zerojay: those transparent, flexible screen protectors?
Nov 12 02:27:49 <hircus> sold my 770 to a Malaysian, and 800 to a Ukrainian, both for about the same price -- $250 before shipping
Nov 12 02:27:58 <zerojay> About the only things I don't like about the N810 is the fact that the camera doesn't rotate and the one less card slot.
Nov 12 02:28:02 <zerojay> l7: I don't have one.
Nov 12 02:28:25 <ScreamingN800> Ooooh you just reminded me. The only reason I would get the N810 is the screen. CAN I SEND MY N800 BACK and get one fitted????? Please, pretty please.
Nov 12 02:28:36 <l7> zerojay: did you avoid getting one because they make operation more difficult?
Nov 12 02:28:55 <hircus> I normally carry a pocket camera anyway, but yes, being able to reverse the camera, or even just change its tilt angle, would have been nice
Nov 12 02:28:56 <zerojay> l7: No, I didn't purposely avoid them.. I just didn't get one.
Nov 12 02:28:59 <l7> hircus: geez, that's a pretty good price
Nov 12 02:29:06 <l7> zerojay: ah for what reason?
Nov 12 02:29:18 <zerojay> l7: Didn't feel the need.
Nov 12 02:29:19 <pupnik> how is the 810 screen better than the 800?
Nov 12 02:29:24 <l7> ah
Nov 12 02:29:31 <zerojay> pupnik: It's glass and transflective.
Nov 12 02:29:31 <hircus> l7: I was surprised myself, yes. my first N800 auction even got to > $300, but a Nigerian scammer got in at the end, bah. it got cancelled
Nov 12 02:29:37 <hircus> pupnik: 20% brighter and transflexive
Nov 12 02:29:42 <l7> pupnik: it's brighter, if you need to use it outdoors in sun
Nov 12 02:29:46 <hircus> zerojay: ah, it's actually glass? neat
Nov 12 02:29:52 <zerojay> hircus: Supposedly.
Nov 12 02:30:00 <hircus> l7: I included a case and two memory cards as well, which helps
Nov 12 02:30:03 <pupnik> i thought transflective was a myth
Nov 12 02:30:08 <l7> hircus: ah, how did you find out he was a scammer?
Nov 12 02:30:28 <zerojay> So on the N810, I wouldn't have the screen wearing out thanks to the virtual keyboard.. but it won't matter because I won't use it much now anyways.
Nov 12 02:30:30 <hircus> l7: ebay cancelled the auction, and then he sent me a fake Paypal payment receipt
Nov 12 02:30:38 <pupnik> so in sunlight, there is no backlight active on the N810?
Nov 12 02:30:56 <zerojay> pupnik: The screen adjusts.
Nov 12 02:31:29 <pupnik> does 'transflective' mean that in sunlight the screen uses incoming sunlight instead of a backlight?
Nov 12 02:31:36 <hircus> thus the light sensor :). I love how the keyboard is backlit as well -- the kind of feature that on full-sized laptop, I've only seen on Macbook Pros
Nov 12 02:32:17 <hircus> pupnik: yup. the reviews from people who have the device all said it's transflective, so hopefuly they're not all wrong
Nov 12 02:32:50 <l7> mmm, backlight
Nov 12 02:33:25 <pupnik> I have never seen a transflective screen.  If this is possible it means that battery usage is very low in sunlight?
Nov 12 02:33:50 <hircus> pupnik: nice, yes? whereas it's the opposite with most other LCD screens
Nov 12 02:33:55 <ScreamingN800> Another by-the-way I used the thin plastic film you use for bookcovers as a screen-protector. €2 gets you enough for about 100 years.
Nov 12 02:34:16 <hircus> I've only heard of a NEC laptop with trans LCD, but I'd think a lot of toughened laptops have it too
Nov 12 02:34:52 <pupnik> then this screen makes the n810 useful in many situations where the n800 is not
Nov 12 02:34:56 <hircus> would be nice if Nokia would give the option to buy the device with screen protectors pre-installed ..
Nov 12 02:35:03 <hircus> .. for people with clumsy fingers like yours truly
Nov 12 02:35:04 <l7> pupnik: i hear some GPS units use a transflexive screen
Nov 12 02:36:30 <pupnik> i think nokia is a hero for making linux handhelds
Nov 12 02:36:45 <pupnik> like sharp was
Nov 12 02:37:14 <pupnik> lets all make them sell
Nov 12 02:37:31 <ScreamingN800> Here here.. Sharp were, but eventually chickened out.
Nov 12 02:38:24 <hircus> I'd second that too. once the Modest client is out, and we get better contacts management and syncing, it'd be brilliant
Nov 12 02:38:27 <l7> i think sharp still sells some of those pda in japan
Nov 12 02:38:33 <ScreamingN800> I loved my zaurus to death-literally-it fell apart.
Nov 12 02:38:44 <pupnik> i have persuaded a few people to buy n800s
Nov 12 02:39:40 <ScreamingN800> n800 is way better, cept the screen. youncould read the z in daylight.
Nov 12 02:39:52 <l7> http://www.connectedhomemag.com/Mobile/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=25863
Nov 12 02:40:16 <l7> it seems sony was using transflexive screens in it's PDAs as early as 2002
Nov 12 02:40:41 <hircus> l7: ah. pity those did not work out too, the Cliés were way better than the Palms of the time
Nov 12 02:41:39 <l7> hircus: i guess so, i never liked Sony's premium pricing strategies and proprietary nature
Nov 12 02:41:54 <l7> hurrah for Nokia :)
Nov 12 02:42:00 <hircus> l7: ah yes, though the PDAs are too small to take a memory stick, thankfully :P
Nov 12 02:42:06 <l7> heh
Nov 12 02:42:17 <FMz_> Does anybody have any suggestions as to the best way to automatically download a podcast to my n800 each day?
Nov 12 02:42:18 <hircus> I bought the 770 just for the screen, actually
Nov 12 02:42:19 <l7> don't get me started on memory sticks! >:)
Nov 12 02:42:40 <hircus> after all those laptop manufacturers moving to glossy just because that's the only thing they can get from LCD makers
Nov 12 02:42:57 <hircus> .. we get this beautiful bright (well, not relative to N800 and N810 but still), super-sharp screen
Nov 12 02:43:01 <l7> FMz_: maybe download it to your PC and automatically sync?
Nov 12 02:43:34 <l7> depends on how often you use your PC though
Nov 12 02:43:52 <hircus> FMz_: or if you have wi-fi, some of the multimedia players do podcasts, I think
Nov 12 02:43:54 <hircus> UKMP or Kagu?
Nov 12 02:44:06 <FMz_> Well, I want to do it wirelessly... I want to ultimately be able to leave my Nokia in the car in the garage (have it charge in there).  I spend a lot of time in the car and don't want to bother moving the charger from place to place.
Nov 12 02:44:37 <FMz_> Canola does podcasts, but it doesn't automatically download the file... it just streams when you start it.
Nov 12 02:45:00 <FMz_> Which is less than desirable when on the road ;)
Nov 12 02:46:12 <hircus> FMz_: ah, I forgot -- gPodder (which I use on my Linux desktop) has a Maemo port as well
Nov 12 02:46:34 <FMz_> And that downloads them on a schedule?
Nov 12 02:46:40 <FMz_> automatically
Nov 12 02:46:50 <hircus> it's quite good, though there's one feature missing -- you can tell it to remove a podcast episode, but not to remove it but maintain the link so you can redownload
Nov 12 02:47:17 <l7> itunes has that failing too
Nov 12 02:47:22 <hircus> FMz_: um, that's still missing
Nov 12 02:47:34 <hircus> l7: though the gpodder author is more responsive to feedbacks :)
Nov 12 02:48:13 <hircus> FMz_: ah, checking the desktop version and it does not seem to have it. there's an option to download on startup
Nov 12 02:48:46 <hircus> .. so you can script it if you want, with cron. send a SIGTERM signal to terminate the application and then restart it every day
Nov 12 02:48:59 <FMz_> Hmm... I wonder how a PHP "daemon" (i.e. constantly running PHP script with 10 minute delays) would work
Nov 12 02:50:04 <l7> hircus: yeah i try to avoid itunes
Nov 12 02:50:11 <l7> not entirely possible on a mac though
Nov 12 02:50:16 <ScreamingN800> hircus I thought we didnt have a cron for thre n800
Nov 12 02:50:17 <l7> http://google-cnet.com.com/cell-phone-and-smart/nokia-n800-navigation-kit/4505-6448_7-32516755.html?tag=b_readfull
Nov 12 02:50:32 <hircus> l7: really, how so?
Nov 12 02:50:33 <l7> cnet is rather harsh towards the GPS kit
Nov 12 02:51:05 <hircus> I mean, Finder now has CoverFlow, but as I understand it it's just a library shared by iTunes and Finder
Nov 12 02:51:33 <hircus> ScreamingN800: you can install it, though
Nov 12 02:51:38 <hircus> just go to red pill mode
Nov 12 02:51:53 <hircus> would be nice to have a cron editor, but not that hard to read the config files anyway
Nov 12 02:52:31 <l7> hircus: well having your music and photos and itunes and iphoto makes things more convenient in some ways
Nov 12 02:52:59 <hircus> l7: ah yes, there's that
Nov 12 02:53:18 <l7> i've been wanting to find an open alternative though
Nov 12 02:53:46 <l7> can you sync your music easily with an open source itunes clone to the n800?
Nov 12 02:54:15 <l7> i don't mind copy paste, but sometimes i get too lazy
Nov 12 02:55:34 <hircus> l7: on Linux, with Rhythmbox you can
Nov 12 02:56:00 <hircus> it can treat any removable storage as a portable music collection, and sync to that -- even with transcoding
Nov 12 02:56:18 <hircus> so you can keep your music on the desktop in lossless format and transcode on the fly for the device
Nov 12 02:56:42 <hircus> you don't get integrated play count and rating though
Nov 12 02:57:14 <l7> hircus: hrm, keeping everything in loseless is a cool feature...
Nov 12 02:57:45 <l7> if i get a n800 though , i might have to migrate my desktop to linux...
Nov 12 02:58:10 <hircus> l7: I'd welcome you to the club, but .. why?
Nov 12 02:58:26 <l7> or i could get an ipod  touch and stick with apple gear...
Nov 12 02:59:13 <hircus> ah, the integration thing
Nov 12 02:59:24 <l7> yeah exactly :)
Nov 12 02:59:24 <hircus> you can run Rhythmbox on a Mac. it'd just look out of place
Nov 12 02:59:29 <l7> heh
Nov 12 02:59:54 <hircus> or use the KDE program, err.. what's it called
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 12 02:59:56 2007