**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 22 02:59:56 2007
Nov 22 03:06:35 <fysa> mplayer out for n810 yet?
Nov 22 03:25:46 <penguinbait> there is a devel version fysa
Nov 22 03:27:22 <penguinbait> http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel chinook  free  non-free
Nov 22 04:08:28 <zerojay> penguinbait: The N810 video clearly doesn't mean "processing speed", but flexibility of a desktop.
Nov 22 04:09:37 <penguinbait> it says power
Nov 22 04:09:47 <zerojay> Uh-huh.
Nov 22 04:09:54 <zerojay> And...?
Nov 22 04:09:59 <penguinbait> maybe they mean 110
Nov 22 04:10:21 <K`zan> Anyone know how to get rid of calls in Gizmo on the n800?  PC apps work with a right click, how does one right click on the n800?
Nov 22 04:10:38 <zerojay> "get rid of calls" means what exactly?
Nov 22 04:10:40 <penguinbait> press and hold
Nov 22 04:10:50 <K`zan> Err press and hold what?
Nov 22 04:11:03 <K`zan> Ah, lemme try something
Nov 22 04:11:43 <K`zan> Ah!  Thanks VERY much penguinbait !
Nov 22 04:11:53 <penguinbait> np
Nov 22 04:12:01 <K`zan> So press and hold is double click equivalent here?
Nov 22 04:12:15 <K`zan> Or is that just in Gizmo?
Nov 22 04:13:08 <penguinbait> everywhere
Nov 22 04:13:21 <penguinbait> uh er, most places
Nov 22 04:13:54 <zerojay> In general, click and hold = right click context menu and double tap = double click.
Nov 22 04:22:35 <K`zan> penguinbait: Thanks, that really helps :-)!
Nov 22 04:23:21 <K`zan> zerojay: You too, appreciate the help.  Loving this thing more as time goes on :-)!
Nov 22 04:44:08 <l7> hey, i read somewhere that nokia will replace a new n800 if it even has one dead pixel
Nov 22 04:44:17 <l7> does anyone know if this is true for US customers?
Nov 22 04:44:31 <l7> or n810 for that matter
Nov 22 04:54:44 <Tb0n3> I has a stuck red pixel in my 770
Nov 22 04:54:44 <Tb0n3> :(
Nov 22 04:54:49 <|R> uhm wtf... my link on the 500 developer program is dead and my account was somewhat reseted... (while other works)
Nov 22 04:54:50 <Tb0n3> but I only notice it on pure black
Nov 22 04:58:55 <kulve> |R: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2321
Nov 22 04:59:17 <|R> heh ok..
Nov 22 05:02:01 <|R> http://maemo.org/profile/view/6c2971887a6311dc8281ffb8f775d379d379/
Nov 22 05:02:17 <|R> i can access my profile, but this link dies, is there a link between that bug and this? :)
Nov 22 05:12:20 <l7> Tb0n3: :(
Nov 22 05:12:27 <Tb0n3> ?
Nov 22 05:12:32 <l7> probably too late to fix it now
Nov 22 05:12:38 <Tb0n3> I got it on amazon
Nov 22 05:12:43 <l7> oh
Nov 22 05:12:45 <Tb0n3> lol
Nov 22 05:12:50 <Tb0n3> 140 with a 1gig
Nov 22 05:12:56 <l7> did you ask amazon for a replacement 770?
Nov 22 05:13:05 <Tb0n3> it was an independent seller
Nov 22 05:13:08 <l7> i think nokia might fix the screen, never hurts to ask
Nov 22 05:13:13 <l7> ah, too bad
Nov 22 05:16:13 <l7> apple has a pretty poor dead pixel policy despite their supposed superior quality control
Nov 22 05:20:20 <Syntra> Wow.
Nov 22 05:20:33 <Syntra> I just tested out the N800's Video Capabilities.
Nov 22 05:20:40 <Syntra> I also found out they don't exist.
Nov 22 05:21:18 <|R> hee
Nov 22 05:22:03 <Syntra> Are there ANY formats the N800 plays nice with?
Nov 22 05:24:18 <mwester> Divx 400x240 works fine for me.
Nov 22 05:24:36 <mwester> mplayer is best, IMO.
Nov 22 05:28:03 <l7> uh oh
Nov 22 05:28:10 <l7> so the n800 needs a converter?
Nov 22 05:28:39 <l7> i suppose full resolution video is out of the question
Nov 22 05:29:01 <mwester> depends on how many frames per second you need ;)
Nov 22 05:29:25 <mwester> 400x240 is about the limit AFAIK
Nov 22 05:29:44 <l7> well 15-30 fps
Nov 22 05:29:53 <l7> closer to 30fps would be nice :)
Nov 22 05:30:11 * mwester isn't sure what frame rate he's getting at 400x240
Nov 22 05:30:19 <l7> well i guess 400x240 is close to the ipod's resolution
Nov 22 05:30:45 <l7> mwester: can it play stretched out to full screen?
Nov 22 05:31:26 <mwester> I run it full-screen
Nov 22 05:31:54 <l7> is it choppy?
Nov 22 05:32:29 <mwester> I haven't found it to be choppy, except when streaming from the network (and I blame that on my wireless network).
Nov 22 05:32:52 <mwester> I just lowered the data rate for streaming video, and it works ok.
Nov 22 05:36:05 <l7> hmm
Nov 22 05:36:20 <l7> i wonder if the speed of your SD card affects video
Nov 22 05:36:39 <|R> no
Nov 22 05:36:47 <l7> and / or the amount of swap?
Nov 22 05:37:02 <|R> swap might benefit more i guess
Nov 22 05:37:19 <|R> but video won't need more than 1MB/sec
Nov 22 05:39:31 <mariorz> anyone have the guile package for os2007 ?
Nov 22 05:48:59 <Syntra> OK, just about to give 352x240 DivX AVI a chance
Nov 22 05:49:39 <Syntra> WOW
Nov 22 05:49:49 <Syntra> This converter must be screwed up or something
Nov 22 05:50:02 <Syntra> 254MB's for a 1 and a half minute long video?
Nov 22 05:50:05 <Syntra> Nothx.
Nov 22 05:50:56 <mwester> Syntra:  That doesn't sound right at all.
Nov 22 05:51:02 <Syntra> Yeah
Nov 22 05:51:29 <Syntra> I'm trying it with a different video bitrate now...
Nov 22 05:51:40 <Syntra> Oh Boy! 253MB's!
Nov 22 05:51:44 <Syntra> So much smaller
Nov 22 05:51:51 <mwester> What are you using to convert?
Nov 22 05:52:13 <Syntra> ArcSoft MediaConverter
Nov 22 05:52:27 * mwester isn't familiar with that. :(
Nov 22 05:52:38 <Syntra> Well what converter do you use, perchance?
Nov 22 05:54:22 <mwester> http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/
Nov 22 05:54:42 <Syntra> Tablet-Encode?
Nov 22 05:54:43 <_Monkey> Tablet-Encode is the new name for 770-encode and can be found at http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/
Nov 22 05:55:19 <Syntra> Alright
Nov 22 05:56:27 <mwester> Yep.  I actually use the mediaserv program to feed mythtv video -- it uses tablet-encode to do the dirty work.  I've had no problems (that weren't of my own making, that is).
Nov 22 05:57:01 <Syntra> Hah
Nov 22 05:57:20 <Syntra> But I wanna encode stuff so that my I can make use of my N800 in the car
Nov 22 05:58:07 <mwester> Then just use tablet-encode manually -- give it the original video clip and tell it what quality you want the result, then copy that to your SD card.  That works pretty well too.
Nov 22 06:00:00 <Syntra> Alright
Nov 22 06:00:50 <Syntra> Wait, is there another converter or something that only runs on windows?
Nov 22 06:01:28 <mwester> tablet-encode claims to run on windows, doesn't it?
Nov 22 06:02:15 <Syntra> Yeah
Nov 22 06:02:20 <Syntra> Using the command line
Nov 22 06:02:33 <Syntra> I just found "Media Converter" by Kontori
Nov 22 06:02:39 <Syntra> It has a GUI!
Nov 22 06:03:06 * mwester doesn't buy into the concept of selecting converters based on fancy GUIs... :)
Nov 22 06:03:14 <Syntra> Haha
Nov 22 06:03:25 <Syntra> Well, I'm not too big on the command line myself
Nov 22 06:03:33 <Syntra> Which is why I don't use Ubuntu as much
Nov 22 06:03:48 <|R> Syntra : it works well :)
Nov 22 06:04:01 <Syntra> Sweet
Nov 22 06:04:02 <l7> i thought ubuntu was supposed to be user-friendly?
Nov 22 06:04:11 <Syntra> It is
Nov 22 06:04:12 <l7> (read: less command line)
Nov 22 06:04:16 <Syntra> Yeah
Nov 22 06:04:20 <mwester> I just think of it this way: if its something that runs in the background (like a converter), then time spent by a developer on a fancy-schmancy GUI is time they DIDN'T spend on optimizing the software.
Nov 22 06:04:41 <Syntra> Oh this is not Fancy Schmancy
Nov 22 06:04:46 <l7> maybe there is a frontend out there somewhere?
Nov 22 06:04:54 <Syntra> But it is nicer than having to use the commandline.
Nov 22 06:05:36 <|R> Media converter is a frontend to mencoder
Nov 22 06:06:35 <Syntra> Wow, I'm liking that it shrunk a 10MB file to a 4MB file
Nov 22 06:06:38 <Syntra> I'm happy now
Nov 22 06:06:59 <Syntra> And in like 30 seconds (granted it was a minute and a half long video)
Nov 22 06:07:02 <mariorz> guile1.6 installed :)
Nov 22 06:07:16 <|R> If i'm to package something (Mostly without any code change), should i start a garage project (what to do with SVN then?) or just do it on my own server (making it a pain to find / get...) ?
Nov 22 06:07:43 <|R> can it be disabled (SVN) as it would lead to code replication from the official repository...
Nov 22 06:13:10 <|R> anyone? :P
Nov 22 06:22:18 <L0cutus> re
Nov 22 06:25:21 <kulve> |R: you can make garage project even if you don't want to use the SVN there
Nov 22 06:25:38 <truls> odd, python 2.5.1 (2.5.1-1osso3) in scratchbox seems to add build/lib.linux-i686-2.5 to sys.path, while the "normal" ubuntu one doesn't
Nov 22 06:26:12 <|R> kulve : ah good, I'll apply for one then, hoping the SVN won't cause too much confusion :)
Nov 22 06:26:57 <truls> you could move your source to it...
Nov 22 06:27:13 <|R> well it's not my project
Nov 22 06:27:17 <truls> i don't know if existing history is kept though, but it would be stupid if it wasn't
Nov 22 06:27:20 <truls> ah
Nov 22 06:27:27 <|R> I'm porting it mostly and packaging some stuff around too maybe
Nov 22 06:27:34 <|R> but i'm not gonna play in the main code
Nov 22 06:27:57 <truls> you'd still want to use svn for that though
Nov 22 06:28:12 <truls> but only update the main code at certain points in time
Nov 22 06:28:15 <|R> let's register one :)
Nov 22 06:28:23 <|R> ok
Nov 22 06:28:51 <truls> like your svn and the main code svn wouldn't be syncrhonized in any way, but it shouldn't have to be, right?
Nov 22 06:29:02 <|R> yep
Nov 22 06:29:18 <|R> i'm just going to use the main stuff in a way that is going to be pleasant on the n8x0
Nov 22 06:32:03 <truls> sounds nice
Nov 22 06:32:24 <truls> it's more work when you have a package that has to work fine on several platforms
Nov 22 06:32:33 <truls> you only have to concentrate on making it work for the n8x0
Nov 22 06:32:34 <truls> :)
Nov 22 06:33:13 <|R> hehe yes, well i'd like it to work on OpenMoko and other platforms too (OLPC, Eee, or whatever comes out with linux these days...) but ... anyway we'll start with maemo ;)
Nov 22 06:33:27 <vegai> how about porting openmoko to n810? :)
Nov 22 06:33:33 <|R> hehe
Nov 22 06:33:53 <|R> We'd need the n810 to be a phone for this to be useful i think :)
Nov 22 06:34:11 * |R dies under a pile of rock from the phone vs no phone debate :P
Nov 22 06:35:38 * truls realizes site.py is different on n800/scratchbox and ubuntu
Nov 22 06:35:48 <truls> former one runs addbuilddir()
Nov 22 06:50:07 <doc|home> anyone here used these: http://www.nushield.com/manufacturer_detail.php?apptypeid=Laptop+%26amp%3B+Tablet+I-Z++&manufacturerid=Nokia++  any opinions on them?
Nov 22 06:50:15 <doc|home> (screen protectors)
Nov 22 06:52:33 * truls still havent' removed the one that came with the n800
Nov 22 06:53:15 <|R> doc|home i do
Nov 22 06:53:33 <|R> they're a pain in the ass to apply, like every shield...
Nov 22 06:53:39 <|R> but they work :)
Nov 22 06:54:02 <doc|home> those exact ones? why so?
Nov 22 06:54:12 <|R> unless i'm mistaken
Nov 22 06:54:13 <|R> give me a sec
Nov 22 06:54:30 <doc|home> there are so many different types and the one that came on it is already scratches 4 or 5 times in 24 hours :/
Nov 22 06:54:36 <|R> oh no wait, a boxwave
Nov 22 06:54:49 <|R> not the nushield or invishield...
Nov 22 06:55:13 <|R> doc|home the original one is really just for protection during transport
Nov 22 06:55:16 <doc|home> bah, I bought stuff from boxwave a coupe of weeks back, that's annoying :)
Nov 22 06:55:23 <|R> hehe
Nov 22 06:55:52 <doc|home> these ones are less expensive and use no adhesive, they clip in under the edge of the bezel
Nov 22 06:56:08 <|R> urhm...
Nov 22 06:56:11 <|R> sounds weird :)
Nov 22 06:56:17 <doc|home> heh
Nov 22 07:13:19 <zpol> bye
Nov 22 07:29:22 <mbuf> how can i take a backup of the images on the N800?
Nov 22 07:45:36 <czr> mornink
Nov 22 07:48:00 <pupnik> mbuf: images = bmp, jpg, gif?
Nov 22 07:49:02 <timelyx> _Monkey forget food
Nov 22 07:49:03 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot food
Nov 22 07:49:06 <timelyx> _Monkey food is <reply>
Nov 22 07:49:07 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Nov 22 07:49:32 <mbuf> pupnik, filesystem images
Nov 22 07:50:00 <mbuf> pupnik, other than dd, are there any tools to take a snapshot backup of the filesystem images?
Nov 22 07:50:12 <pupnik> i think not
Nov 22 07:50:25 <mbuf> pupnik, ok
Nov 22 07:50:49 <pupnik> i installed multiboot to do image backups
Nov 22 08:04:53 <swetland> don't suppose anyone knows if nokia has released a umac.ko for 2.6.23 or .24 or if there's an effort somewhere to do an open driver for the N800 wifi? ^^
Nov 22 08:06:59 * timelyx rotfl
Nov 22 08:11:54 <vegai> what sort of people buy the Amazon Kindle?
Nov 22 08:11:57 <vegai> bogglesome.
Nov 22 08:20:00 <captlloyd> yay, they shipped my N810 today
Nov 22 08:20:54 <visy> :)
Nov 22 08:21:35 <captlloyd> I was kinda annoyed that they said they came in on Monday and the even called me that day to make sure I still wanted my preorder, but then didn't ship until this last evening
Nov 22 08:22:28 <captlloyd> I'm just excited :)
Nov 22 08:37:32 <mariorz> does anyone know in which dir the mails for the ail app are stored? i think it downlaod to many and cant start
Nov 22 08:41:04 <pupnik> sry no
Nov 22 08:43:49 <pupnik> mariorz: you can find recently changed files
Nov 22 08:44:27 <pupnik> find / -ctime -10
Nov 22 08:44:34 <pupnik> finds all files changed in last 10 hours
Nov 22 08:46:30 * doc|home asks again:
Nov 22 08:46:34 <doc|home> anyone here used these: http://www.nushield.com/manufacturer_detail.php?apptypeid=Laptop+%26amp%3B+Tablet+I-Z++&manufacturerid=Nokia++  any opinions on them?
Nov 22 08:46:54 <mariorz> pupnik: thx
Nov 22 08:52:51 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 22 09:29:17 <rothiel> Hi guys :)
Nov 22 09:32:23 <doc|home> can you add search engines to the drop down list?
Nov 22 09:32:28 <doc|home> (in the applets)
Nov 22 09:33:43 <pupnik> from the 'Home' menu doc|home ?
Nov 22 09:33:56 <doc|home> i.e the desktop?
Nov 22 09:34:18 <pupnik> ok clicking on the globe in upper-left?
Nov 22 09:35:04 <pupnik> you can manage bookmarks by clicking on bookmarks
Nov 22 09:35:24 <pupnik> hit menu: bookmark->new
Nov 22 09:35:54 <doc|home> right, nothing there listing google
Nov 22 09:36:18 <sp3000> the desktop search applet, I think he means
Nov 22 09:36:25 <pupnik> well i have os2006 so it might ... ok i get it
Nov 22 09:38:05 <doc|home> hmm, ok
Nov 22 09:38:07 <doc|home> sleep time, night
Nov 22 09:38:12 <pupnik> cheers
Nov 22 09:59:01 <Andy80> _berto_: hi :)
Nov 22 09:59:23 <_berto_> hi
Nov 22 09:59:24 <_berto_> :)
Nov 22 09:59:58 <_berto_> solmumaha: in case you didn't notice I released a new package for the 770
Nov 22 10:00:39 <pupnik> wo wat were
Nov 22 10:01:05 <pupnik> package of what _berto_ ?
Nov 22 10:01:14 <_berto_> vagalume, a last.fm client
Nov 22 10:01:28 <czr> hmm. can anyone throw me an url to where debs are downloaded from by apt-get in chinook?
Nov 22 10:01:32 <pupnik> nice
Nov 22 10:02:09 <pupnik> see /etc/apt/sources.list czr
Nov 22 10:02:23 <czr> pupnik, no. that points to the repo, which doesn't contain the debs.
Nov 22 10:03:10 <_berto_> debs are downloaded to /var/cache/apt/archives/
Nov 22 10:03:11 <_Monkey> Hmm.  No matches for that, _berto_.
Nov 22 10:03:18 <pupnik> ?  what does a repository contain then?
Nov 22 10:03:19 <czr> _berto_, from. not to.
Nov 22 10:03:26 <_berto_> oh, sorry X-)
Nov 22 10:03:31 <_berto_> those are included in the Packages list
Nov 22 10:03:34 <czr> pupnik, open http://repository.maemo.org/stable/chinook and see
Nov 22 10:03:52 <_berto_> each entry in Packages file contains the url of the package
Nov 22 10:04:14 <_berto_> _Monkey: sorry ?
Nov 22 10:04:14 <_Monkey> no idea, _berto_
Nov 22 10:04:18 <pupnik> yeah what he said
Nov 22 10:04:22 <czr> ah. yes. the packages files are inside the compressed rootstrap
Nov 22 10:04:26 <czr> that's why I didn't see them
Nov 22 10:05:19 <czr> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0/ was the thing I was looking for
Nov 22 10:07:02 <czr> anyone know of a working process to do sdk installation in an offline scenario? if you do, drop me a privmsg
Nov 22 10:07:13 <czr> and please don't ask "why don't you use the autoinstall script".
Nov 22 10:07:41 <pupnik> sorry i wasn't more helpful
Nov 22 10:07:47 <X-Fade> czr: Why don't you use the vmware image ;)
Nov 22 10:07:56 <czr> X-Fade, not possible
Nov 22 10:08:08 <czr> but yes, sneaky, sneaky.. I noticed what you tried to do! :-)
Nov 22 10:08:19 * czr goes looking for salmons for x-fade
Nov 22 10:08:24 <czr> or trouts.
Nov 22 10:08:31 <X-Fade> Hehe ;)
Nov 22 10:08:41 <_berto_> alternatively you could use a qemu image ;-P
Nov 22 10:09:00 <X-Fade> czr: Can't help you there. I use the vmware image, which works quite well for me..
Nov 22 10:09:05 <czr> btw, makes me wonder. the announced vmware image. how on earth can they distribute the nokia binaries in it?
Nov 22 10:09:18 <X-Fade> czr: They don't.
Nov 22 10:09:29 <czr> X-Fade, the announcement said they do
Nov 22 10:09:31 <X-Fade> There is an icon on the desktop to the autoinstaller..
Nov 22 10:09:37 <czr> bleh :-)
Nov 22 10:10:11 <X-Fade> czr: Installing is pretty fast that way..
Nov 22 10:10:16 <X-Fade> Did it in a few minutes..
Nov 22 10:10:20 <czr> X-Fade, but won't work if you're offline
Nov 22 10:10:26 <czr> _offline_. magic keyword.
Nov 22 10:10:43 <czr> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0/free/t/ttf-bitstream-vera/
Nov 22 10:10:44 <X-Fade> czr: Just download the repository? And change the sources.list?
Nov 22 10:10:49 <czr> anyone notice anything funny about that?
Nov 22 10:11:05 <czr> X-Fade, I doubt it will be all that painless. but yes, that's what I'm trying to do now.
Nov 22 10:11:34 <X-Fade> czr: The autoinstaller just grabs the i386 and armel debs and installs them?
Nov 22 10:11:49 <czr> no. it will download the rootstrap which is a tar.gz
Nov 22 10:11:56 <czr> extract that, then run apt-get install
Nov 22 10:12:03 <X-Fade> Ah yeah, and then it runs it..
Nov 22 10:12:04 <czr> within sbox
Nov 22 10:12:26 <czr> and the rootstrap contains only useless cruft, most of the SDK comes via apt-get
Nov 22 10:13:56 <czr> no one noticed anything funny in the _binary_ part of the pool where that directory points to?
Nov 22 10:13:58 <czr> no? aww.
Nov 22 10:14:37 <czr> I'll file a bug soon. nm
Nov 22 10:18:01 <czr> hmm. anyone know where apt-get upgrade will download its Package file?
Nov 22 10:18:09 <czr> +from
Nov 22 10:18:21 <czr> Packages even
Nov 22 10:19:38 <i_mihai> does anyone here has any know-how about bt-sco with maemo chinook?
Nov 22 10:21:25 <i_mihai> 
PING 1195692294 388833

Nov 22 10:25:38 <_berto_> czr: from ?
Nov 22 10:27:02 <_berto_> from the repo, dists/distribution/component/binary-arch/Packages
Nov 22 10:27:42 <czr> thanks _berto_
Nov 22 10:28:07 <_berto_> i.e, dists/bora/whatever/binary-armel/Packages
Nov 22 10:28:10 <_berto_> or Packages.bz2
Nov 22 10:28:11 <_berto_> or Packages.gz
Nov 22 10:28:18 <czr> yup, found them
Nov 22 10:36:43 <i_mihai> test
Nov 22 10:51:10 <czr> hmm. anyone know how critical the minimal rootstrap really is?
Nov 22 10:51:34 <czr> i.e, if I manually create a new target in sbox first, then setup sources.list to point to chinook, and then install maemo-sdk-whatnot virtual package.
Nov 22 10:51:47 <czr> will it horribly break and dragons fly out of my nose?
Nov 22 10:52:22 <timeless> i think it's vaguely optional
Nov 22 10:52:28 <timeless> since you're in sbox
Nov 22 10:52:41 <timeless> if you didn't have sbox (w/ debian dev kit)
Nov 22 10:52:46 <timeless> you'd probably be in more trouble
Nov 22 10:52:50 <czr> what do you mean by optional?
Nov 22 10:52:56 <timeless> but i personally use a full rootstrap
Nov 22 10:53:18 <czr> but full rootstrap doesn't contain the whole sdk anyway
Nov 22 10:53:21 <czr> so it's not an option
Nov 22 10:53:30 * timeless shrugs
Nov 22 10:53:39 <pupnik> so install what you want and make your own sdk rootstrap
Nov 22 10:53:48 <timeless> timeless/chinook shows what you'd get w/o the rootstrap
Nov 22 10:53:49 <czr> ever noticed how after installing the full rootstrap, apt-get will still download a whole load of stuff?
Nov 22 10:54:00 <timeless> i don't do it very often
Nov 22 10:54:10 <timeless> i find it easier to borrow other people's computers when i actually need a build env
Nov 22 10:54:15 <czr> pupnik, sounds "easy". how difficult would that be?
Nov 22 10:54:49 <pupnik> i think you are a person looking for problems, not solutions
Nov 22 10:54:51 <timeless> czr: well, the script to grab sources for chinook is fairly trivial
Nov 22 10:55:07 <timeless> and one that did installs would be a lot easier :)
Nov 22 10:55:39 <czr> pupnik, tell it to whomever designed the install process not to support offline scenarios.
Nov 22 10:55:46 <czr> pupnik, if you have a better idea, I'm all ears
Nov 22 10:56:31 <czr> timeless, my limit for trivial scripts is 5k. the install scripts are > 20k :-)
Nov 22 10:56:52 <timeless> -rwxr-xr-x   1 timeless webservd    4.3K Nov  7 03:06 /export/home/timeless/nexenta/bin/get_maemo.sh
Nov 22 10:57:03 <timeless> -rwxr-xr-x   1 timeless webservd    5.1K Oct 25 13:34 /export/home/timeless/nexenta/bin/sardine_get_maemo.sh
Nov 22 10:57:12 <czr> hmm. where are those?
Nov 22 10:57:12 <_Monkey> those are /dev/rfcomm, maybe?
Nov 22 10:57:15 <timeless> -rwxr-xr-x   1 timeless webservd    4.9K Nov  7 20:05 /export/home/timeless/nexenta/bin/extras_get_maemo.sh
Nov 22 10:57:22 <pupnik> czr: you can tar-up a scratchbox install and burn to dvd
Nov 22 10:57:33 <timeless> czr: ping
Nov 22 10:57:37 <timeless> oops
Nov 22 10:58:08 <czr> pupnik, hmm. maybe I'm missing my point. the objective is _not_ delivering a working SDK in an offline environment. the object is delivering a working environment where the SDK can be _installed_ while in offline.
Nov 22 10:58:22 <timeless> czr: please pong
Nov 22 10:58:27 <czr> timeless, pong. sry
Nov 22 10:58:38 <czr> I have a separate queue for echo-messages :-)
Nov 22 10:59:41 <pupnik> ah i see.  then you'd need to make a local repository for all the SB stuff
Nov 22 10:59:48 <pupnik> and the chinook stuff
Nov 22 11:00:00 <czr> yes
Nov 22 11:00:18 <czr> I probably didn't explain the scenario too well at the beginning, sry for that.
Nov 22 11:00:37 <czr> the sb-stuff isn't too hard at all
Nov 22 11:00:47 <czr> it's just a bunck of deb files which can be installed manually with dpkg
Nov 22 11:00:50 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/solaris/osol/get_nexenta.sh
Nov 22 11:00:53 <czr> and then sb-conf the targets and such
Nov 22 11:01:12 <timeless> might also be worth reading
Nov 22 11:01:16 <timeless> so that's 4 scripts :)
Nov 22 11:01:27 <timeless> i can't remember how related they are
Nov 22 11:01:38 <timeless> the nexenta one is a debian bootstrapper for a live system
Nov 22 11:01:43 <timeless> the others all get sources only
Nov 22 11:01:47 <czr> ah, not related to maemo then?
Nov 22 11:01:53 <timeless> although iirc they're flexible so one could probably swap them
Nov 22 11:01:58 <timeless> right
Nov 22 11:02:12 <timeless> i wanted to be able to install nexenta(debian-solaris)
Nov 22 11:02:19 <timeless> so i found a script that kinda worked
Nov 22 11:02:36 <timeless> but there's not much difference between bootstrapping one debian and another
Nov 22 11:02:42 <timeless> nexenta and maemo are both forks from debian
Nov 22 11:03:00 * czr nods
Nov 22 11:03:27 <timeless> but, for your purposes, it's possible that the other three still have enough ability to get non sources instead of sources
Nov 22 11:03:46 <timeless> there's actually a perl variant of one of them
Nov 22 11:03:52 <timeless> but i think i never managed to switch to using it :(
Nov 22 11:03:58 <timeless> (it's not shorter, just perl)
Nov 22 11:04:29 <czr> hmm. what's the end-result? for get_maemo.sh?
Nov 22 11:04:36 <czr> a rootstrap tarball for sbox?
Nov 22 11:04:48 <timeless> sources for everything that go into a release
Nov 22 11:05:02 <timeless> well, for almost everythign
Nov 22 11:05:04 <czr> and that helps me how exactly? :-)
Nov 22 11:05:06 <timeless> at least, by default
Nov 22 11:05:14 <timeless> i'd start w/ the extras one
Nov 22 11:05:24 <timeless> that's the one that i used to get the chinook xref
Nov 22 11:05:35 <timeless> and it /should/ still have enough flags to say install instead of get sources
Nov 22 11:05:58 * czr shakes head
Nov 22 11:05:59 * timeless shrugs
Nov 22 11:06:14 <czr> " the objective is _not_ delivering a working SDK in an offline environment. the object is delivering a working environment where the SDK can be _installed_ while in offline."
Nov 22 11:06:46 <timeless> it might be eaier to start from the get_nexenta version, since that's the onl one that results in a booted system :|
Nov 22 11:07:18 <czr> nevermind. it might be better that I'll just continue banging my head against my own private wall for a while :-)
Nov 22 11:07:20 <czr> thanks anyway
Nov 22 11:07:28 <timeless> well, conceptually
Nov 22 11:07:41 <timeless> get_nexenta downloads the pieces it considers to be minimal
Nov 22 11:07:54 <timeless> and splitting it into a "get" and an "install" pass
Nov 22 11:07:56 <timeless> would be easy
Nov 22 11:08:20 * timeless shrugs
Nov 22 11:08:26 <czr> hmm. how do I stop wget from going into parent directories of the original target URL?
Nov 22 11:08:44 <timeless> you mean foo/bar.zip => bar.zip ?
Nov 22 11:09:00 <czr> no.
Nov 22 11:09:07 <czr> http://repository.maemo.org/dists/maemo4.0/
Nov 22 11:09:20 <czr> I want to retrieve that. but wget with -r will also retrieve stuff behind "Parent directory"
Nov 22 11:09:57 <pupnik>  -np
Nov 22 11:10:11 <timeless> blah
Nov 22 11:10:20 <czr> pupnik, thanks
Nov 22 11:10:27 <X-Fade> czr:   -l,  --level=NUMBER       maximum recursion depth (inf or 0 for infinite).
Nov 22 11:10:38 <czr> X-Fade, that doesn't help really.
Nov 22 11:10:51 <pupnik> i think default recursion level is 5
Nov 22 11:10:58 <timeless> yes
Nov 22 11:11:01 <czr> ah. yeah.
Nov 22 11:11:18 <timeless> man wget isn't so bad actually
Nov 22 11:11:24 <timeless> although you're stuck reading it
Nov 22 11:11:38 <czr> yup. somehow skipped the -np option while reading it
Nov 22 11:11:41 <pupnik> i like man pages with exmamples :)
Nov 22 11:12:09 <pupnik> hmm "exmanples"
Nov 22 11:12:15 <timeless> yuck
Nov 22 11:12:15 <czr> heh
Nov 22 11:14:43 <czr> ooh. "Stale NFS file handle"
Nov 22 11:14:48 <czr> been a while since I saw those :-)
Nov 22 11:14:49 <timeless> nice
Nov 22 11:17:22 <Andy80> don't remember the link... where can I find the howto that explain how to install multiple SDK under the same Scratchbox?
Nov 22 11:19:02 <czr> Andy80, check maemo-dev ml archives. inz at least posted some stuff on it within the last week
Nov 22 11:19:33 <timeless> czr: anyway, at some point i'll probably write a variant of my script which actually does make rootstraps
Nov 22 11:19:45 <timeless> because sometimes i need to index them :(
Nov 22 11:19:46 <czr> timeless, tonight? :-)
Nov 22 11:19:50 <timeless> no :)
Nov 22 11:19:53 <czr> damn.. :-)
Nov 22 11:19:55 <timeless> february :)
Nov 22 11:20:03 <czr> fabrrruarrry
Nov 22 11:20:26 <czr> I really wish that the offline scenario would be supported directly
Nov 22 11:20:34 <czr> but I guess that's not going to ever happen
Nov 22 11:20:35 <timeless> file a bug?
Nov 22 11:20:38 <timeless> i don't get it
Nov 22 11:20:50 <timeless> the official process is that you use apt-get update or something similarly stupid?
Nov 22 11:21:03 <czr> the official process is that you use the automatic install scripts
Nov 22 11:21:04 <timeless> i think the process i recommend is "grab the vmware image"
Nov 22 11:21:09 <timeless> oh yuck
Nov 22 11:21:13 <timeless> gah
Nov 22 11:21:34 <czr> the maemo SDK script will download a rootstrap (tarball), extract it into sbox, then run apt-get update in both targets
Nov 22 11:21:45 <czr> and that apt-get basically will get most of the SDK stuff installed
Nov 22 11:21:52 <timeless> the official scripts are for silly people who have already made their own scratchbox
Nov 22 11:21:57 <czr> it's pretty ok, iff you're connected while you're doing it
Nov 22 11:22:03 * timeless nods
Nov 22 11:22:13 <czr> there's another script that will download and install sbox for you too
Nov 22 11:22:19 <czr> so, two autoscripts
Nov 22 11:22:19 <timeless> is the rootstrap not redistributable?
Nov 22 11:22:25 <czr> it doesn't contain the SDK
Nov 22 11:22:30 <czr> it only contains a small part of it
Nov 22 11:22:39 <timeless> right
Nov 22 11:22:48 <timeless> but does a license prevent someone from hosting a more useful tarball?
Nov 22 11:22:53 <czr> and.. well.. then there's the issue of the nokia binary license and stuff
Nov 22 11:23:07 <timeless> rub, therein, lies.
Nov 22 11:23:15 <timeless> the
Nov 22 11:23:19 <czr> that's a separate issue. the binaries are separate from the rootstrap
Nov 22 11:23:30 <czr> the autoscript downloads them separately
Nov 22 11:23:52 <czr> and I don't think anything per se would stop someone making this offline scenario work
Nov 22 11:24:01 <czr> I just don't get it why I'm supposed to be the someone.
Nov 22 11:24:09 <timeless> heh
Nov 22 11:24:10 * czr is grumpy
Nov 22 11:24:20 <tsavola> czr: ota naassii
Nov 22 11:24:23 <timeless> if you want to point to a place on timeless.justdave.net/ we could make arrangements
Nov 22 11:24:25 * tsavola ojentaa
Nov 22 11:24:30 <czr> naassii? :-)
Nov 22 11:24:32 <timeless> then you could get someone else to do it later :)
Nov 22 11:24:34 <tsavola> czr: karkkii
Nov 22 11:24:37 <tsavola> czr: päkyi
Nov 22 11:24:50 <czr> tsavola, karkki computes. pakyi sounds like something weird :-)
Nov 22 11:24:56 * czr takes some nases.
Nov 22 11:25:09 * timeless kicks svn
Nov 22 11:25:12 <czr> tsavola, naassii based on "napoo"?
Nov 22 11:25:17 <timeless> what kind of <title>/</title> is that?
Nov 22 11:25:23 <tsavola> czr: en tiedä sanan etymologiaa
Nov 22 11:25:29 <timeless> oh gah
Nov 22 11:25:33 <czr> timeless, compact one. it's slashdot taken to the next level.
Nov 22 11:25:37 <timeless> there are *two* trunk directories
Nov 22 11:25:45 * timeless kicks /someone/
Nov 22 11:25:51 * czr hides
Nov 22 11:25:51 <timeless> otoh...
Nov 22 11:26:02 <sp3000> maybe it got struck by lightning
Nov 22 11:26:49 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage-all/source/browser/mozilla/branches/MOZ_HEAD_BRANCH/
Nov 22 11:26:50 <czr> there's a coffee machine in oulu with very funny user instructions.. I think it went something like this: 2) Wait for lightning. 3) Take hot cup". don't remember the first bit
Nov 22 11:26:57 <timeless> it's a HEAD BRANCH!
Nov 22 11:26:59 <czr> in finnish it made slightly more sense
Nov 22 11:27:09 <timeless> heh
Nov 22 11:27:15 <timeless> /slightly/
Nov 22 11:27:22 <czr> on tekniikantie, if you ever visit that place
Nov 22 11:27:26 <czr> I'm sure it's still somewhere there.
Nov 22 11:27:38 <timeless> sp3000: did you leaf through the photos?
Nov 22 11:27:39 <czr> in even probably.
Nov 22 11:27:53 <sp3000> timeless: I did
Nov 22 11:28:19 <jumpula> p�kyi \o/
Nov 22 11:28:23 <sp3000> head branch sounds painful
Nov 22 11:28:37 <czr> sp3000, slightly more so than head trunk
Nov 22 11:29:49 <pupnik> I think i'm going to 'release my package' tomorrow
Nov 22 11:32:00 <czr> I think I'm going to "not to work" tomorrow
Nov 22 11:32:18 <czr> in the evening at least. would be nice to have a proper weekend at least
Nov 22 11:32:23 <czr> at last too
Nov 22 11:32:36 <tsavola> czr: you're going "across the street" and "down to pub"
Nov 22 11:32:56 <czr> tsavola, yes. to "enjoy myself".
Nov 22 11:33:55 <czr> I have an evil solution to the offline scenario
Nov 22 11:34:07 * czr gets all gleamy-red-eyed
Nov 22 11:34:10 <czr> buhahaha.
Nov 22 11:35:29 <czr> hmm. I wonder why -np didn't work
Nov 22 11:36:09 <czr> -np with http://repository.maemo.org/dists/chinook still tries to download http://repository.maemo.org/dists/herring
Nov 22 11:36:12 <czr> (and fails btw)
Nov 22 11:38:03 <czr> ah. it was a redirect because of a symlink
Nov 22 11:38:46 <czr> hmm. no it wasn't. /me goes mad
Nov 22 11:44:43 <timeless> gah
Nov 22 11:44:45 * timeless really hates svn
Nov 22 11:44:48 <timeless> it's so slow
Nov 22 11:46:20 * czr gives timeless a Nokia 300 baud modem
Nov 22 11:46:27 <czr> to teach you some.
Nov 22 11:46:37 * timeless grew up w/ 2400/1200
Nov 22 11:46:52 <timeless> but at least then you knew what size files made snese
Nov 22 11:46:54 <timeless> gah
Nov 22 11:47:03 <czr> yeah, they did
Nov 22 11:47:13 <timeless> zmodem told you the file size and the time
Nov 22 11:47:17 <timeless> svn doesn't bother
Nov 22 11:47:26 <timeless> you have no idea how many gig's of garbage you'll get
Nov 22 11:47:37 <Jaffa> bergie_: ping
Nov 22 11:47:51 <czr> timeless, ls?
Nov 22 11:48:02 <timeless> in svn?
Nov 22 11:48:06 <czr> timeless, but yeah, a some kind of prediction would be nice
Nov 22 11:48:08 <timeless> i don't have the directories yet
Nov 22 11:48:09 <czr> yes, in svn.
Nov 22 11:48:13 <czr> you don't have to
Nov 22 11:48:19 <timeless> svn ls ?
Nov 22 11:48:22 <czr> yes
Nov 22 11:48:41 <czr> although I guess svn du would be nicer, if it'd exist.
Nov 22 11:49:00 <timeless> does it require a lock?
Nov 22 11:49:28 <timeless> yes, i want svn du
Nov 22 11:49:33 <timeless> svn ls is not remotely useful
Nov 22 11:49:35 <timeless> wget works
Nov 22 11:49:38 <timeless> or telnet
Nov 22 11:49:46 <timeless> so does microb
Nov 22 11:52:17 <czr> yes. although you need -v to get the sizes
Nov 22 11:52:30 <czr> du wouldn't be very hard to implement either
Nov 22 11:52:58 * czr puts on his "no, I'm not going to implement it now" -t-shirt
Nov 22 11:54:22 <czr> what gets me most about svn is it's double-storage on local side
Nov 22 11:54:48 <czr> it's really annoying with larger files which you know that you'll never modify anyway except maybe with overwrites (binary files and such)
Nov 22 11:55:56 <mgedmin> wheee!  nokia wireless keyboard rules!
Nov 22 11:55:58 <mgedmin> err
Nov 22 11:56:04 <mgedmin> apple wireless keyboard rules
Nov 22 11:56:31 <czr> nopple
Nov 22 11:59:37 <czr> hmm. question: why are debian source packages available in both the binary distribution directory _and_ under the /pool/rel/source/ tree?
Nov 22 12:00:01 <czr> infact. the source tree also contains the binaries
Nov 22 12:00:03 <czr> wtf.
Nov 22 12:00:20 <lardman> kulve: is there a home page for the mobile myth tv stuff?
Nov 22 12:00:36 <kulve> lardman: uhm, how should I know? :)
Nov 22 12:01:04 <kulve> I tried it once, but didn't get working. I'm going to get those myth things working once I get the n810 though..
Nov 22 12:01:11 <lardman> sorry, I saw the first address on the page and didn't read any further https://garage.maemo.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=1896
Nov 22 12:01:22 <kulve> :)
Nov 22 12:01:29 <pupnik> the nokia bluetooth keyboard looks very nice as far as I can tell - wish i could afford to buy one just to compare to the Thinkoutside Stowaway
Nov 22 12:01:44 <kulve> lardman: http://tuxrecife.blogspot.com/2007/11/ogg-support-on-mobile-mythtv.html
Nov 22 12:01:45 * lardman wishes he could get a device with a built-in keyboard
Nov 22 12:01:51 <kulve> about same thing
Nov 22 12:02:34 <lardman> kulve: thanks, I was just going to say he ought to have some more blurb & screenshots
Nov 22 12:03:19 <czr> hmm. I think that source is a symlink to the same directory. damn it..
Nov 22 12:03:22 <kulve> lardman: http://gmyth.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page doesn't answer to me, but there's probably seomthing more
Nov 22 12:03:30 <kulve> and I saw a wiki somewhere
Nov 22 12:03:41 <kulve> oh, it's that url
Nov 22 12:03:44 <lardman> I'm not that bothered, was just going to point it out
Nov 22 12:04:03 <lardman> as the news post has neutral karma
Nov 22 12:04:39 * czr rotfls
Nov 22 12:04:54 <czr> wget -r -l inf with this: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/source/source/source/source/ ... etc.
Nov 22 12:05:07 <lardman> yeah I saw that the other day
Nov 22 12:05:35 * mgedmin cannot figure out how to turn the apple wireless keyboard off
Nov 22 12:22:08 <czr> is repository.maemo.org available over ftp btw?
Nov 22 12:22:25 <czr> bleh. no
Nov 22 12:22:30 * czr bangs head against the wall
Nov 22 12:32:23 <czr> can't stop wget from ending up into an infinite loop
Nov 22 12:32:30 * czr oh joys
Nov 22 12:38:34 <pupnik> there's no place like /home
Nov 22 12:45:53 <Andy80> I'm trying to install Maemo SDK 3.1/3.2 inside Scratchbox already configured for Maemo SDK 4.0 and I've this problem: currently SDK 4.0 is using this toolchain: cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-i386 but SDK 3.1 requires cs2005q3.2-glibc-i386, how can I fix this?
Nov 22 12:49:16 <[pablo]> trying to install a few apps into os2008 from maemo and they are complaining about missing hildon libraries. Anyone know why these are not in the repository?
Nov 22 12:51:07 <timeless> which?
Nov 22 12:51:15 <pupnik> file a report on the app please
Nov 22 12:51:50 <[pablo]> namely sgt-puzzles
Nov 22 12:52:04 <[pablo]> i have ran into a few different ones with different libs though
Nov 22 12:52:27 <suihkulokki> without bothering to check I'm fairly certain you are trying to install Os2007 apps on OS2008
Nov 22 12:53:01 <[pablo]> suihkulokki: no idea, they are listed in the application manager
Nov 22 12:53:17 <[pablo]> i've had my n810 for all of 8 hours now heh, and it's my first tablet
Nov 22 12:53:54 <pygi> ergh, [pablo], you're in US probably?
Nov 22 12:54:00 <[pablo]> yes
Nov 22 12:54:27 <pygi> ah :-/
Nov 22 12:54:49 <mgedmin> Andy80: my understanding is that you create separate targets for each SDK version, and use different toolchains for each target, no?
Nov 22 12:54:56 <[pablo]> mine wasn't supposed to come until the end of the month, but it showed up early for smoe reason
Nov 22 12:55:16 <pygi> [pablo]: well, in europe,  we still cant get one :D
Nov 22 12:55:26 <mgedmin> Andy80: have you seen http://inz.fi/blog/2007/10/22/multi-target-development-for-maemo/ ?
Nov 22 12:55:29 <X-Fade> [pablo]: You are making a lot of people jealous ;)
Nov 22 12:55:34 <Andy80> mgedmin: yes... I read it on the maemo-developers ML, that I can install another SDK inside the current Scratchbox installation.
Nov 22 12:55:53 <Andy80> mgedmin: I give a look..
Nov 22 12:56:48 <[pablo]> heh
Nov 22 12:57:42 <Dar> pygi: anyone seen any estimate of when those of us in europe might be able to get our hands on one?
Nov 22 12:57:55 <Andy80> mgedmin: I'm reading... but he simply force SDK 3.1/3.2 to use cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-i386 instead of cs2005q3.2-glibc-i386 :)
Nov 22 12:57:58 <pygi> Dar, I heard December 18 ? :-/
Nov 22 12:58:06 <Andy80> mgedmin: I can modify the installer script too..
Nov 22 12:58:30 <Dar> seriously... ?
Nov 22 12:58:50 <pygi> Dar, aha
Nov 22 12:59:00 <Dar> That's effectively 2008 given xmas period.
Nov 22 12:59:18 <pygi> well, I wont be getting it this year if that's true :-/
Nov 22 12:59:29 <pygi> I'm in Croatia, and my code is for austria webshop, so :D
Nov 22 13:00:19 <Dar> here's hoping that it's sooner then !
Nov 22 13:00:25 <lardman> +1
Nov 22 13:01:14 <[pablo]> i hope more people get them, i feel so lonely heh
Nov 22 13:01:14 <pygi> :)
Nov 22 13:01:31 <pygi> shh, when we get them, some serious hacking will start :)
Nov 22 13:02:52 <[pablo]> awesome =)
Nov 22 13:03:57 <[pablo]> so most of the applications in the repositories right now won't work on os2008 right?
Nov 22 13:04:13 <pupnik> yeah
Nov 22 13:04:22 <pupnik> scummvm works.  should tide you over for a few hours :)
Nov 22 13:04:30 <[pablo]> heh
Nov 22 13:05:08 <pupnik> also the sdl gamey type stuff tends to work on any tablet OS
Nov 22 13:05:12 <X-Fade> All OS2008 applications in the catalog should work. Tested most of them.
Nov 22 13:05:31 <[pablo]> i got pidgin installed, and maemopad(old voodoopad user so I like this), and gizmo
Nov 22 13:05:33 <timeless> x-fade: which catalog?
Nov 22 13:05:44 <timeless> we tried installing ukmp and the other one, and neither worked
Nov 22 13:06:01 <[pablo]> yeah i tried ukmp and it didn't work as well
Nov 22 13:06:04 <pygi> [pablo]: why use pidgin, if you can use FamaIM? :)
Nov 22 13:06:07 <X-Fade> http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008
Nov 22 13:06:28 <[pablo]> pygi: what is famaim?
Nov 22 13:06:45 <pygi> [pablo]: http://fama-im.org
Nov 22 13:07:00 <timeless> x-fade: yeah, i think we tried ukmp and kagu and both refused to install
Nov 22 13:07:23 <X-Fade> timeless: I guess you forgot to install python first? :)
Nov 22 13:07:30 <X-Fade> I run kagu at least.
Nov 22 13:07:33 <timeless> ?!
Nov 22 13:07:47 <suihkulokki> "forgot to install python first"
Nov 22 13:07:48 <timeless> what part of "click to install!" means "but please click somewhere else first?"
Nov 22 13:08:02 <X-Fade> timeless: File a bug agains the applications?
Nov 22 13:08:18 <timeless> i told someone else to, i can go haunt him now
Nov 22 13:08:18 <[pablo]> pygi: half the protocols don't work according to this :-P
Nov 22 13:08:19 <X-Fade> They should just depend on python..
Nov 22 13:08:27 <pygi> [pablo]: they do ;)
Nov 22 13:08:40 <pygi> I just didnt update the page for some time xD
Nov 22 13:08:53 <[pablo]> lol
Nov 22 13:08:58 <pygi> plus the newest release (0.0.4 which should be out soon) rocks even more :)
Nov 22 13:10:08 <timeless> is maemo.org responding for other people/
Nov 22 13:10:14 <timeless> "Waiting for maemo.org..."
Nov 22 13:10:31 <[pablo]> also waiting ...
Nov 22 13:10:34 <X-Fade> timeless: Does the same for me..
Nov 22 13:10:42 <czr> timeless, see how much fun I'm having: 2350, 2351 & 2352
Nov 22 13:10:59 * timeless considers an rss feed for "bugs filed today"
Nov 22 13:11:27 <timeless> Bugzilla has suffered an internal error. Please save this page and send it to bugzilla@maemo.org with details of what you were doing at the time this message appeared.
Nov 22 13:11:28 <timeless> Can't use %5BBug%20creation%5D as a field name.
Nov 22 13:11:32 <timeless> awww gee, that worked really well
Nov 22 13:11:34 * timeless cries
Nov 22 13:11:49 * czr broke bugzilla?
Nov 22 13:11:51 <czr> cool.
Nov 22 13:11:54 <timeless> checking
Nov 22 13:12:15 <timeless> strange, seems to work fine w/ bmo
Nov 22 13:12:21 <timeless> (bugzilla.mozilla, not bugs.maemo)
Nov 22 13:12:29 <czr> ah. suspected as much
Nov 22 13:12:39 * czr stores the failed attempt to be ironic for later use
Nov 22 13:12:47 <czr> at being ironic!
Nov 22 13:12:51 * czr hides in shame
Nov 22 13:17:46 <czr> does anyone know who maintains repositories.maemo.org? (the webserver)
Nov 22 13:17:54 <czr> whether they're on irc and such
Nov 22 13:18:34 <timeless> czr: bug 2353  :)
Nov 22 13:18:34 <_Monkey> Bug 2353 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2353
Nov 22 13:18:36 <X-Fade> czr: Talk to ferenc..
Nov 22 13:18:45 <timeless> czr: you want ftp?
Nov 22 13:19:05 <[pablo]> tried installing python and that crapped out on me too =/ libbz2 and libgdbm3
Nov 22 13:19:09 <timeless> The requested URL could not be retrieved
Nov 22 13:19:09 <timeless> While trying to retrieve the URL: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/ogg/
Nov 22 13:19:13 <czr> timeless, it at least would've allowed me to test whether wget gets around the symlink using FTP
Nov 22 13:19:15 <timeless>     * Connection to 127.0.0.1 Failed
Nov 22 13:19:16 <timeless> The system returned:
Nov 22 13:19:16 <timeless>     (111) Connection refused
Nov 22 13:19:17 <timeless> The remote host or network may be down. Please try the request again.
Nov 22 13:19:35 <czr> X-Fade, ferenc doesn't irc, does he?
Nov 22 13:19:38 <X-Fade> timeless: We are working on it with all parties..
Nov 22 13:20:14 <czr> timeless, nice (2353)
Nov 22 13:20:36 <czr> damn you btw, you stole 2353 from me! I've yet to have a free run of four consecutive bug ids
Nov 22 13:21:16 <luck^> [pablo], they are in http://repository.maemo.org
Nov 22 13:22:02 <czr> timeless, I was testing various approaches doing the mirroring and was just puzzled why my nice proxy wasn't proxying anything. first wasted some time verifying that the proxy works and so. blah I say (bug 2350)
Nov 22 13:22:02 <_Monkey> Bug 2350 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2350
Nov 22 13:22:08 <sp3000> timeless: I like the feed title when you fix the url
Nov 22 13:22:10 <luck^> you have to add a new line to your repositories list
Nov 22 13:22:20 <sp3000> <title>Bug%20List</title>
Nov 22 13:22:21 <timeless> sp3000: which was it
Nov 22 13:22:32 <timeless> sp3000: oh yes
Nov 22 13:22:35 <timeless> is there a bug about that?
Nov 22 13:22:39 <timeless> if i filed it, it's old :)
Nov 22 13:24:12 <pupnik> i'm excited for new/better abiword
Nov 22 13:24:22 <[pablo]> luck^: thank you, i wonder why the main repo wasn't in my catalog list. Fixed now =)
Nov 22 13:24:35 <luck^> :)
Nov 22 13:24:45 <[pablo]> attempting ukmp now
Nov 22 13:25:42 <mgedmin> aargh, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1038 is killing me
Nov 22 13:26:28 <pygi> ah, wrong direction of arrow is killing you?
Nov 22 13:26:34 <pygi> I just hope that's the worst bug you found ...
Nov 22 13:26:38 <pygi> if it is, then no worries :P
Nov 22 13:26:45 <sp3000> timeless: ah, cool, the link in the html is fine, a redirect is being funny
Nov 22 13:26:47 <mgedmin> it's not a wrong direction
Nov 22 13:26:50 <[pablo]> hey that worked too
Nov 22 13:26:53 <[pablo]> go figure =)
Nov 22 13:26:56 <mgedmin> it's that two of my statusbar icons are completely inaccessible
Nov 22 13:26:59 <timeless> redirect?
Nov 22 13:27:04 <sp3000> oops
Nov 22 13:27:06 <sp3000> see e.g. https://bugs.maemo.org/bugzilla/hi%5Dmom
Nov 22 13:27:15 <sp3000> er
Nov 22 13:27:26 <sp3000> https://bugs.maemo.org/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?hi%5Dmom rather
Nov 22 13:27:29 <pygi> mgedmin: ah, the bluetooth one :P
Nov 22 13:27:35 <mgedmin> yes
Nov 22 13:27:46 <pygi> sorry, didnt look at it
Nov 22 13:27:50 <pygi> I just woke up, so :p
Nov 22 13:29:23 <timeless> mgedmin: been there, poked that :)
Nov 22 13:29:45 <czr> timeless, why did you ask (about ftp)?
Nov 22 13:29:49 <mgedmin> now I have to set up an alarm in order to poke the bluetooth arrow
Nov 22 13:29:54 <mgedmin> s/arrow/icon/
Nov 22 13:29:54 <infobot> mgedmin meant: now I have to set up an alarm in order to poke the bluetooth icon
Nov 22 13:32:32 * timeless frowns
Nov 22 13:32:37 <pygi> this bot reads minds :)
Nov 22 13:32:44 <timeless> how does one find a file when it could be on any of a dozen computers
Nov 22 13:32:52 <timeless> and some computers have >300gb of "data" :(
Nov 22 13:33:31 <czr> grambits?
Nov 22 13:33:35 * czr hides
Nov 22 13:33:50 <Jaffa> Anyone looking at porting Micropolis (i.e. SimCity) to Maemo? http://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/
Nov 22 13:33:50 <czr> timeless, one builds indices
Nov 22 13:33:54 <czr> and searches in the indices
Nov 22 13:34:28 <timeless> sp3000: this is cool, i can easily tell which bugs czr has filed that i have(n't) read
Nov 22 13:34:36 <timeless> if they have the maemo logo, i've read them
Nov 22 13:34:39 <timeless> if not, i haven't
Nov 22 13:34:40 <sp3000> heh
Nov 22 13:35:11 <timeless> czr: btw tell jarmo not to misspell meemo :)
Nov 22 13:35:22 <czr> he's beyond my skills
Nov 22 13:35:37 <czr> (note, I didn't say "any hope", just my skills..)
Nov 22 13:36:30 <czr> timeless, can't you file a bug report on him? :-)
Nov 22 13:36:42 <timeless> i had started to write an email
Nov 22 13:36:45 <timeless> but i gave up
Nov 22 13:36:53 * czr comes up with a brilliant idea. combining bugzilla and linkedin
Nov 22 13:37:00 <pygi> Jaffa: source link?
Nov 22 13:37:06 <czr> where you file bugs against people that you are working with/have worked with
Nov 22 13:37:17 <czr> bugin.com
Nov 22 13:40:22 <timeless> i like the . => source thing :)
Nov 22 13:40:24 <timeless> that's nice
Nov 22 13:40:36 <timeless> anyway, i think you're much better off using some variant of one of my scripts
Nov 22 13:40:44 <timeless> one shoudl definitely be able to get all the debs for you :)
Nov 22 13:40:58 <timeless> probably apt-get install --download-only
Nov 22 13:41:26 <timeless> 2352 should be sev:enh
Nov 22 13:41:30 <czr> it's too late now :-)
Nov 22 13:41:45 <timeless> you got what you needed?
Nov 22 13:41:47 <czr> already downloading. everything. with caching disabled. with broken symlinks. without ftp.
Nov 22 13:41:55 <tsavola> what . => source why
Nov 22 13:41:57 <czr> I only have 2 Mbps line. so still waiting
Nov 22 13:42:06 <timeless> czr: how'd you deal w/ source?
Nov 22 13:42:08 <czr> source -> . I think.
Nov 22 13:42:12 <tsavola> good
Nov 22 13:42:25 * czr spanks tsavola
Nov 22 13:42:31 <tsavola> Thu 15:40        timeless> i like the . => source thing :)
Nov 22 13:42:32 <czr> timeless, I don't.
Nov 22 13:42:41 <timeless> you don't?
Nov 22 13:42:45 <tsavola> i do
Nov 22 13:42:48 <czr> yeah.
Nov 22 13:42:48 <timeless> so you're going to recursively get it?
Nov 22 13:42:55 <czr> no. I gave up on wget.
Nov 22 13:42:56 <timeless> *confused*
Nov 22 13:43:00 <timeless> oh
Nov 22 13:43:00 <tsavola> i'm not
Nov 22 13:43:06 <timeless> you're back to apt?
Nov 22 13:43:08 <tsavola> no
Nov 22 13:43:09 * czr spanks tsavola until he is
Nov 22 13:43:13 <czr> timeless, no
Nov 22 13:43:17 <czr> using apt-mirror
Nov 22 13:43:21 <czr> modified version
Nov 22 13:43:21 <timeless> oh
Nov 22 13:43:23 <timeless> cute
Nov 22 13:43:27 <czr> and will see how damaged it will come out
Nov 22 13:43:31 <timeless> heh
Nov 22 13:43:54 <czr> I've spent 4 hours so far just _trying_ to replicate the repo
Nov 22 13:43:59 <timeless> sp3000: thanks for the analysis
Nov 22 13:44:08 <sp3000> np
Nov 22 13:44:09 <timeless> (much easier to read in gmail than on irc)
Nov 22 13:44:19 <czr> I'm really afraid of thinking how many more hours I'll spend tonight trying to get the offline thing working.
Nov 22 13:44:46 <timeless> strange
Nov 22 13:44:51 <timeless> where did /bugzilla/ come from?
Nov 22 13:44:54 <czr> hmm. are alkos still open? like, not all completely on strike?
Nov 22 13:45:10 <timeless> wasn't there *one* open? :)
Nov 22 13:45:22 <czr> which one? :-) which one?!?
Nov 22 13:45:30 * czr will check
Nov 22 13:45:35 <timeless> did i mention i don't drink?
Nov 22 13:45:40 <czr> you did
Nov 22 13:46:00 <czr> I don't use windows, but that doesn't stop me from knowing about it :-)
Nov 22 13:46:23 <czr> ah. no strikes currently. then I can continue work too.
Nov 22 13:47:19 <timeless> http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Forty+Alko+outlets+remain+open+despite+staff+strike/1135231875135
Nov 22 13:47:23 <timeless> is all i can find
Nov 22 13:47:40 <pupnik> refresh
Nov 22 13:47:43 <czr> heh :-). alko.fi says that they're all open. they're going to resume the strike later
Nov 22 13:47:59 <timeless> after christmas?
Nov 22 13:48:13 <czr> I think before actually
Nov 22 13:48:20 <czr> "to hit them where it hurts the most"
Nov 22 13:48:25 <timeless> good call
Nov 22 13:48:29 <timeless> non dumb unions
Nov 22 13:48:36 <czr> they're getting pretty feisty nowadays
Nov 22 13:48:37 <timeless> at least you guys grow one smart group
Nov 22 13:50:04 <dpb_> czr: the last strike ended saturday afaik
Nov 22 13:50:38 <czr> great. I visit alko maybe once a year or twice
Nov 22 13:50:49 <Jaffa> pygi: err, google? :)
Nov 22 13:51:06 <pygi> Jaffa: heh, cant right now, sorry
Nov 22 13:51:15 <dpb_> but apparently they might go on strike next month again.. I dunno..
Nov 22 13:52:19 <czr> I think I'll go and get some food and a bottle of port or something. the download seems to take ages anyway
Nov 22 13:52:22 <czr> laters ->
Nov 22 13:53:39 <czr> Jaffa, micropolis looks interesting. too bad it's in tcl/tk though :-)
Nov 22 13:53:54 <dpb_> Visiting alko might be an idea..
Nov 22 13:55:07 <Jaffa> czr/pygi: can't seem to find a source tarball yet
Nov 22 13:55:29 <czr> Jaffa, ask on #olpc?
Nov 22 13:55:33 <Jaffa> czr: yeah, but I don't think typing's necessary so it could run full screen (like it does on the OLPC)
Nov 22 13:55:39 <czr> they might know if the port is being worked on to olpc anyway
Nov 22 13:55:47 * czr nods
Nov 22 13:55:58 <czr> it would be a nice small thing to have on the device in any case
Nov 22 13:56:11 <czr> but. -> non-maemo-things.
Nov 22 14:02:45 <pupnik> schools should have a one-tablet-per-child program
Nov 22 14:03:13 <pupnik> hospitals should have em too
Nov 22 14:03:37 <pygi> pupnik: they should use it as a tricoder =)
Nov 22 14:11:18 <bedboi> who talks about strikes?
Nov 22 14:11:44 <bedboi> this french "greve" (strike) is terrible
Nov 22 14:14:45 <timeless> finnish alcohol sales?
Nov 22 14:18:10 <timeless> sp3000: hey, for bmo, is that extra /bugzilla/ present, or is it only in bugs-maemo?
Nov 22 14:20:25 <sp3000> timeless: just maemo
Nov 22 14:20:33 <timeless> hrm
Nov 22 14:20:43 <timeless> iirc i *have* bugs-maemo somewhere
Nov 22 14:20:57 * timeless wonders *where*
Nov 22 14:22:20 <timeless> ok, it's on my windows laptop at least
Nov 22 14:22:23 <timeless> kinda odd
Nov 22 14:23:35 <timeless> any idea which file i should look at?
Nov 22 14:24:50 <timeless> C:\0\list\list.atom.tmpl
Nov 22 14:24:54 * sp3000 finds 5 roots to get to bugs.maemo
Nov 22 14:24:56 <timeless>   <link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml"
Nov 22 14:24:56 <timeless>         href="[% Param('urlbase') %]buglist.cgi?
Nov 22 14:24:56 <timeless>         [%- urlquerypart FILTER xml %]"/>
Nov 22 14:25:02 <timeless> roots?
Nov 22 14:25:23 <timeless> bugzilla.maemo.org/bugs.maemo.org/bugs.maemo.org-bugzilla?
Nov 22 14:25:42 <pupnik> thanks for the good browser
Nov 22 14:25:43 <timeless> maemo.org/bugzilla
Nov 22 14:26:00 <timeless> pupnik: =)
Nov 22 14:26:02 <sp3000> (bugs|bugzilla|)maemo.org/bugzilla/|(bugs|bugzilla).maemo.org/
Nov 22 14:26:30 <timeless> indeed, five, nice
Nov 22 14:26:42 <timeless> https://bugs.maemo.org/bugzilla/bugzilla/ doesn't work :o
Nov 22 14:26:48 <sp3000> heh
Nov 22 14:26:54 <timeless> don't forget http(s) :)
Nov 22 14:27:07 <sp3000> timeless: you need https://bugs.maemo.org/bugzilla/bugzilla/buglist.cgi
Nov 22 14:27:09 * timeless sees sp3000's five and raises 5
Nov 22 14:27:21 <sp3000> (e.g.)
Nov 22 14:27:26 <timeless> ooh, that works
Nov 22 14:30:14 <timeless> should i be mean and thumb down anyone linking to bugzilla.maemo.org? :)
Nov 22 14:30:45 <truls> should svn-buildpackage work in scratchbox?
Nov 22 14:31:41 <sp3000> timeless: nah, fx3 takes care of that ;)
Nov 22 14:32:03 <sp3000> someone should probably fix the flags in the redirect config
Nov 22 14:32:22 <sp3000> assuming I remember something I've never really done anything with at all correctly ;)
Nov 22 14:33:27 <sp3000> ok, except fx3 doesn't fix http-no-s
Nov 22 14:35:50 <truls> seems the libraries are missing to be able to run svn-buildpackage somehow...
Nov 22 14:35:52 <truls> odd
Nov 22 14:37:07 <truls> oops... removing the svn-buildpackage with apt from within scratchbox doesn't let it be reinstalled..
Nov 22 14:38:34 <timeless> ok, i've asked the rtcomm team to fix their links/text to say bugs.maemo.org :)
Nov 22 14:39:13 <timeless> ouch, someone is attacking one of the mozilla.org http servers :)
Nov 22 15:20:09 <timeless> hrm
Nov 22 15:20:19 <timeless> is apt-get dist-upgrade a bad idea in scratchbox?
Nov 22 15:24:24 <lophyte> has anyone been successful in getting USB host mode working on the N800?
Nov 22 15:49:54 <zoran> regarding yesterday's im console client topic, I found links to two apps made for that purpose: centricq and climm
Nov 22 15:52:30 <pygi> zoran: shhh, well, FamaIM is the best :)
Nov 22 15:53:06 <zoran> k, no hard feelings?
Nov 22 15:53:29 <pygi> hahah
Nov 22 15:53:32 <pygi> ofcourse not :D
Nov 22 15:53:57 <zoran> no bsd port of it till this days
Nov 22 15:54:16 <pygi> you can run it tho
Nov 22 15:54:21 <pygi> (on bsd)
Nov 22 15:54:25 <zoran> lemme find the source
Nov 22 15:55:24 <inz> zoran, bitlbee ftw ;)
Nov 22 15:56:15 <zoran> yes< i saw it some time ago, but I still don't use im
Nov 22 15:56:36 <zoran> it is a daemon to look for connections ...
Nov 22 15:56:36 <pygi> btw. centericq has been obsoleted by centerim
Nov 22 15:56:46 <zoran> just saw this
Nov 22 15:57:00 <zoran> cjc in python
Nov 22 15:57:22 <zoran> climm comes after micq
Nov 22 16:01:40 <vabgeo> hi all
Nov 22 16:03:47 <vabgeo> my N800 doesnt seem to switch on after doing an initfs comand & reboot
Nov 22 16:04:16 <Ar-ras> hi
Nov 22 16:04:17 <_Monkey> bonjour, Ar-ras
Nov 22 16:04:29 <Ar-ras> is N810 released?
Nov 22 16:04:58 <sxpert-work> not yet
Nov 22 16:05:27 <Ar-ras> when will it released?
Nov 22 16:06:08 <sxpert-work> thanks for asking :-)
Nov 22 16:07:09 <vabgeo> In nokiausa.com it says out of stock
Nov 22 16:07:49 <sxpert-work> vabgeo: they added the product, but it hasn't arrived from the factory yet
Nov 22 16:09:26 <vabgeo> oh, i heard it was available in nokia flagship stores in chicago & newyork?
Nov 22 16:09:42 <vabgeo> they had a news release on 19th
Nov 22 16:12:35 <vabgeo> i am still waiting for the dev code to be activated.
Nov 22 16:16:08 <vabgeo> anyway i seem to have succesfully bricked my n800 :(
Nov 22 16:18:07 <kupesoft> I can't get pidgin running on chinook,
Nov 22 16:19:24 <kupesoft> Some dependency is not satisfied,
Nov 22 16:22:29 <fysa> why did they have to make about:config the most annoying thing ever to configure jesus fucking christ
Nov 22 16:24:47 <mgedmin> vabgeo: can you reflash?
Nov 22 16:25:08 <vabgeo> it doesnt even power on
Nov 22 16:25:23 <vabgeo> that i press & hold the switch
Nov 22 16:25:25 <mgedmin> lophyte: some threads on the mailing list indicate that yes, there is at least one person who managed to get usb host working on a n800
Nov 22 16:25:27 <vabgeo> nothing happens
Nov 22 16:25:33 <mgedmin> vabgeo: try recharging
Nov 22 16:25:36 <vabgeo> no lights..
Nov 22 16:25:48 <mgedmin> pulling out the battery, putting it back in, plugging in the charger and waiting a couple of hours
Nov 22 16:26:02 <vabgeo> yes, I checked battery/charger. battery shows 3.7 Volts
Nov 22 16:26:13 <vabgeo> charger output is 6.2 Volts
Nov 22 16:26:29 <vabgeo> i have a lab
Nov 22 16:26:34 <vabgeo> :)
Nov 22 16:27:46 <sp3000> a voltage measuring doggy!!11
Nov 22 16:27:57 * sp3000 didn't know labs could do that
Nov 22 16:29:18 <lophyte> mgedmin, I'll have to check it out... ITT had unsuccessful stories
Nov 22 16:29:27 <vabgeo> ok mgedmin
Nov 22 16:30:28 <vabgeo> when i connect the charger, even the charging icon doesnt show up. I tried another charger from a shop to no effect
Nov 22 16:31:04 <zoran> mgedmin said to remove battery for minute or so
Nov 22 16:31:25 <mgedmin> actually I didn't say "for a minute", but it might help anyway ;)
Nov 22 16:31:39 <vabgeo> yup i had removed it for like an hour now :D
Nov 22 16:31:45 <bedboi> damn, is there anyone who has troubles with resolving DNS names in scratchbox?
Nov 22 16:31:53 <zoran> I had an issue and it became to be empty battery
Nov 22 16:32:01 <mgedmin> I've had one 770 that wouldn't show any life signs even after I plugged in the charger, but after a few hours of it being plugged in I could turn it on
Nov 22 16:32:13 <shackan> bedboi: you have an old debian/ubuntu?
Nov 22 16:32:15 <mgedmin> bedboi: almost everyone
Nov 22 16:32:27 <bedboi> nope i'm using debian sid
Nov 22 16:32:37 <bedboi> mgedmin: cool :)
Nov 22 16:32:39 <mgedmin> and it's usually a new debian/ubuntu that causes the problems -- one that has avahi enabled by default
Nov 22 16:32:53 <mgedmin> the trick is to check /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf instead of /etc/resolv.conf
Nov 22 16:32:53 <bedboi> i guess i don't have that stupid avahi
Nov 22 16:33:01 <bedboi> ah
Nov 22 16:33:03 <bedboi> lemme see
Nov 22 16:33:14 <mgedmin> and another trick is to check /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf (make sure mdns is not mentioned)
Nov 22 16:33:30 <bedboi> mgedmin: you are the man!
Nov 22 16:33:36 <bedboi> the first one did the job
Nov 22 16:33:48 <bedboi> kudos
Nov 22 16:35:41 * czr is ready to post more bug reports!
Nov 22 16:35:46 <czr> (slightly drunk)
Nov 22 16:35:54 <czr> but that's where the best bug reports come from!
Nov 22 16:36:37 * mgedmin wants to post a wishlist bug to have http://lists.maemo.org/ redirect to the new location instead of having a funny text message
Nov 22 16:36:51 <zoran> czr, what did you unbugged?
Nov 22 16:37:08 <vabgeo> ok mgedmin, tnx. just for your info the last operation i did was back up my rootfs and try to dualboot.
Nov 22 16:37:11 <czr> zoran, I'm prettu sure that wouldn't compute even if I'd be sober :-)
Nov 22 16:37:23 <czr> actually. I wanted to act civilized, and have some port with food.
Nov 22 16:37:36 <czr> I then decided that acted civilized is very much over-rated.
Nov 22 16:37:40 <czr> acting even.
Nov 22 16:38:11 <vabgeo> by using the fanoush's initfs. foolishly i ran initfs from an ssh from my pc. do you think this might cause this?
Nov 22 16:38:50 <zoran> vabgeo, do you have power in device at start up?
Nov 22 16:39:15 <vabgeo> u mean the charger? yea
Nov 22 16:39:25 <zoran> screen appears?
Nov 22 16:39:29 <vabgeo> nope
Nov 22 16:39:35 <zoran> ah!@#
Nov 22 16:39:37 <vabgeo> no blue light
Nov 22 16:39:44 <zoran> any light?
Nov 22 16:39:50 <zoran> white screen?
Nov 22 16:39:59 <vabgeo> nothing at all, a real brick
Nov 22 16:40:16 <zoran> not even one foton at the very start?
Nov 22 16:40:31 <vabgeo> not even a quark!
Nov 22 16:40:42 <zoran> could be a battery?
Nov 22 16:40:55 <zoran> it should not be so expensive
Nov 22 16:40:56 <vabgeo> i had initially thought the battery was dead
Nov 22 16:41:05 <vabgeo> i got another charger
Nov 22 16:41:14 <vabgeo> checked the battery with a multimeter
Nov 22 16:41:43 <X-Fade> vabgeo: Did you check it while loaded..
Nov 22 16:41:44 <vabgeo> battery showed i think 3.7 volts
Nov 22 16:41:55 <vabgeo> nope i didnt hmm
Nov 22 16:42:37 <X-Fade> Can be that it drops a lot..
Nov 22 16:42:59 <vabgeo> i see. ya i guess I will buy a new battery
Nov 22 16:43:14 <X-Fade> vabgeo: But surely it isn't out of warranty yet?
Nov 22 16:43:18 <vabgeo> its just 3 months
Nov 22 16:43:20 <vabgeo> old
Nov 22 16:43:31 <X-Fade> So claim your warranty! :)
Nov 22 16:43:53 <lopz> hola
Nov 22 16:44:13 <vabgeo> its just that I travelling in US for a couple of months and leave back in 2 weeks
Nov 22 16:44:39 <vabgeo> so i guess warranty takes at least 4-6 weeks?
Nov 22 16:44:44 <X-Fade> vabgeo: Ah, well ask in the shop if you can try the new battery?
Nov 22 16:45:19 <zoran> sales people will love him
Nov 22 16:45:32 <X-Fade> Or (warning warning) use another battery from another nokia and hook it up with a few wires.
Nov 22 16:45:44 <X-Fade> zoran: Not more than reasonable?
Nov 22 16:46:14 <vabgeo> this has the same battery as e62 i think
Nov 22 16:46:45 <vabgeo> i have a digital variable powersupply
Nov 22 16:46:52 <zoran> sales people will love him
Nov 22 16:47:04 <zoran> uh, sorry, wrong key
Nov 22 16:47:13 <czr> yeah, d minor.
Nov 22 16:47:22 <czr> otherwise it won't sound sad enough
Nov 22 16:47:51 <vabgeo> there are 3 pins for the battery, can i get some info on what all voltages to give?
Nov 22 16:48:20 <czr> one of the pins is for serial communication methinks, not? smart batteries?
Nov 22 16:48:36 <Jaffa> kulve: great comment at the end of https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308 :)
Nov 22 16:49:19 <lophyte> guess I need to hack a USB cable now
Nov 22 16:49:42 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Very nice when you work hard on project and people rant like that..
Nov 22 16:49:49 <X-Fade> Makes you feel all fuzzy inside..
Nov 22 16:49:54 <vabgeo> so i think i shall try gving +3.7 volts on the pin and try?
Nov 22 16:50:00 <czr> jaffa :-)
Nov 22 16:50:26 <zoran> vabgeo, look for white smoke
Nov 22 16:50:35 <vabgeo> lol
Nov 22 16:50:46 <zoran> bpl-5 ?
Nov 22 16:50:55 <vabgeo> bp-5l
Nov 22 16:51:15 <kulve> Jaffa: yeah, I was a bit surprised by the ferenc's comment..
Nov 22 16:51:16 <zoran> you better invest into it or replace, as someone suggested
Nov 22 16:52:18 <vabgeo> k yes, that sounds better to me too :) ebay has it as low as 10$
Nov 22 16:52:42 <zoran> no secondhand, I hope
Nov 22 16:52:53 <czr> kulve, that he commented or to the contents of the comment? :-)
Nov 22 16:53:13 <Jaffa> X-Fade: the response of "yeah, but we don't know what's going on" isn't likely to engender confidence. Last weekend it was up and down all the time - you're all still working on getting it back up and running (see the profiles issue); ferenc saying more specific issues are needed when it seems to be (and ferenc's comment confirms this) process/procedural/resource issues. Not bugs in the specific Midgard implementation.
Nov 22 16:53:14 <vabgeo> i will probably get a desktop charger too
Nov 22 16:53:52 <zoran> pygi, bitlbee looks like something I'd like the best
Nov 22 16:54:27 <X-Fade> Jaffa: We worked on it, even in the weekend. This is a community project and lately it seems that people rather rant, than offer constructive comments or even offer help.
Nov 22 16:55:25 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Sure, things have gone wrong. But you can't always help that..
Nov 22 16:55:27 <zuh> kulve: haha, you told him good ;)
Nov 22 16:55:37 <Jaffa> X-Fade: fair enough, but (once again) there's no communication. No-one knows what's going on, even at the weekend only timelyx was on IRC (IIRC) saying it probably wasn't worth paging anyone about.
Nov 22 16:55:57 <Jaffa> - which is probably right, albeit temporarily frustrating.
Nov 22 16:56:01 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Timeless likes to rant too ;)
Nov 22 16:56:03 <pygi> zoran: shhhh!
Nov 22 16:56:10 <Jaffa> X-Fade: really? hadn't noticed ;-)
Nov 22 16:57:04 <X-Fade> But being a troll in bugzilla certainly won't help.
Nov 22 16:57:23 <Jaffa> X-Fade: if you want more community involvement, you (a general "you") need to communicate better. Where's the email to maemo-developers apologising for the downtime, explaining what happened, explaining what you did to fix it, explaining why it's not going to happen again and asking for assistance with (a), (b) and (c).
Nov 22 16:57:53 <konttori> I was just talking to ferenc an hour ago
Nov 22 16:58:08 <konttori> he was saying that they have been working really hard on the issue non-stop.
Nov 22 16:58:10 <X-Fade> When working in a small team with limited resources, you can't always spend hours sending mails. You just want to fix things asap.
Nov 22 16:58:11 * czr agrees with jaffa
Nov 22 16:58:26 <konttori> He was on his way to home to get some food and keep on working the servers.
Nov 22 16:58:29 <X-Fade> We work on it even on our free time in the evenings, shit happes..
Nov 22 16:58:32 <czr> no doubt there might have been a lot of effort to fix things. but how can anyone see it?
Nov 22 16:58:49 <czr> anyone outside N that is.
Nov 22 16:59:10 <X-Fade> czr: Subscribe to maemo2midgard mailinglist for one..
Nov 22 16:59:13 <konttori> Yeah, just saying that the guys trying to fix things are doing their best
Nov 22 16:59:23 <czr> X-Fade, where is that?
Nov 22 16:59:23 <Jaffa> X-Fade: agreed - but you're not going to get help if you don't ask ;-)
Nov 22 16:59:33 <konttori> I agree that this situation should have never happened in the first place
Nov 22 16:59:47 <vabgeo> zoran, mgedmin thanks for your help. so i can be reasonably sure that doing initfs will not bring N800 to this state and it must be a power supply issue?
Nov 22 16:59:53 * Jaffa still isn't sure what the situation *is*, apart from "shit happened" :-/
Nov 22 17:00:24 <mgedmin> vabgeo: better ask on the mailing list, one of the nokia developers who actually knows this stuff will probably answer
Nov 22 17:00:30 <zoran> vabgeo, whatever software prob you'd have, it must to show some light to you
Nov 22 17:00:45 <Jaffa> cron dying, and profile corruption are the only things I'm really aware of. But those are probably symptoms - as are the weekend issues of gforce being available, *.garage.maemo.org being available tc.
Nov 22 17:00:46 <konttori> could also be that they can't give the reasons
Nov 22 17:01:03 <konttori> Not saying that it is like that, but just that could be that they can't
Nov 22 17:01:26 <X-Fade> Jaffa: They were all a chain reaction..
Nov 22 17:01:30 <konttori> midgard might be at the heart of it in the end
Nov 22 17:01:32 <czr> X-Fade, 10 mails during all of november: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo2midgard-discussion/2007-November/thread.html
Nov 22 17:01:38 <czr> X-Fade, that's the list you meant?
Nov 22 17:02:11 <X-Fade> Jaffa: garage died, m.o synced broken records, cron was stopped to stop syncing etc etc..
Nov 22 17:02:11 <lardman> ah, good to see my email made it there
Nov 22 17:02:25 <vabgeo> thanks i tried on the ittforum I will check on the mailing list and will also try new batteries..
Nov 22 17:02:37 <X-Fade> czr: That will get you to the right people at least.
Nov 22 17:02:39 <czr> lardman, heh. did you btw see my mail about the spontaneous debugging issue?
Nov 22 17:02:46 <vabgeo> it means my development of my apps are on a standstill
Nov 22 17:03:02 <lardman> czr: no, what was that?
Nov 22 17:03:07 <czr> X-Fade, so next time something will break, we'll tell people to sub to that ml and complain there?
Nov 22 17:03:19 <Jaffa> X-Fade: thanks, that helps a lot. *Is* there anything we can do to help?
Nov 22 17:03:19 <czr> lardman, let me dig for it. maemo-dev. yesterday
Nov 22 17:03:31 <lardman> I'll look through my posts
Nov 22 17:03:41 <czr> search for "annoying bug-reporting person"
Nov 22 17:04:43 <X-Fade> Jaffa: It seems we have the server load under control now, tomorrow we will try to restore the accounts..
Nov 22 17:04:47 <ferenc> helo
Nov 22 17:05:16 <czr> evenink ferenc. just were talking about breakage of maemo.org
Nov 22 17:05:28 <czr> or rather, lack of communication from N with that
Nov 22 17:05:40 <ferenc> yes, i know. i came in to see what are you guys talking
Nov 22 17:05:58 <czr> "there is none" :-)
Nov 22 17:06:02 <ferenc> is there any constructive criticism here or only ranting, just like in bugzilla?
Nov 22 17:06:03 <Jaffa> ferenc: Probably best to read the last 10 minutes' log
Nov 22 17:06:12 <czr> ferenc, mostly ranting.
Nov 22 17:06:24 <czr> but imho it's justified ranting.
Nov 22 17:06:25 <ferenc> i don't want to ruin my evening. nokia does not pay extra for that.
Nov 22 17:06:40 <czr> ferenc, just think "it's just a job" real hard :-)
Nov 22 17:06:51 <ferenc> i would suggest to stop ranting. we are not screwing up maemo.org for fun.
Nov 22 17:07:05 <czr> no one thinks you are.
Nov 22 17:07:15 <ferenc> i would be please if there were a dozen of apache experts volunteering here.
Nov 22 17:07:17 <Jaffa> Don't take it personally: if this is a question of not having a test server, Nokia need to invest here. They can't push developers towards using maemo.org services but then not provide the resources to allow it to be run as a stable production system.
Nov 22 17:07:19 <ferenc> so where are those guys?
Nov 22 17:07:29 <czr> ferenc, where did you ask for them?
Nov 22 17:07:39 <ferenc> ok. i stop here guys.
Nov 22 17:08:05 <Jaffa> ferenc: one of the points has been that without any communication (because you're busy fixing it), the Nokia team've not said what's gone wrong; so there're a) no offers of help; b) no requests for help.
Nov 22 17:08:14 <lardman> night all
Nov 22 17:08:15 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Everthing gets tested internally. But you just can't test for freak accidents..
Nov 22 17:08:17 * Jaffa is happy to help a) if he can, b) if he knows how
Nov 22 17:08:21 <ferenc> we have test servers, but we can't simulate that kind of test load.
Nov 22 17:08:46 <ferenc> Jaffa, czr: you are right. we did not ask help.
Nov 22 17:09:13 <X-Fade> Jaffa: All those people refreshing for news about OS2008 and N810 doesn't help either ;)
Nov 22 17:09:25 <czr> ferenc, next time, just a single email of "maemo.org is expriencing problems & we're investigating further" would help. really.
Nov 22 17:09:40 <czr> ferenc, and don't take it personally, please.
Nov 22 17:09:53 <Jaffa> X-Fade: of course, you're right you can't prevent freak accidents with testing. This is where DR & backup investment comes in :-)
Nov 22 17:09:57 <ferenc> czr: yes, right. it is difficult.
Nov 22 17:10:13 <czr> ferenc, I feel your pain btw :-)
Nov 22 17:10:29 <X-Fade> Jaffa: That is what will be done to fix it..
Nov 22 17:10:33 * Jaffa too - maintaining flaky systems is no fun :-(
Nov 22 17:10:37 <Jaffa> X-Fade: excellent :)
Nov 22 17:10:39 <ferenc> so guys, beside chatting here please go to maemo.org and just kick it hard.
Nov 22 17:11:07 <czr> ferenc, is there anything specific you'd want us to concentrate on?
Nov 22 17:11:24 <czr> and which parts of maemo.org are we talking about? garage.maemo, or just maemo.org?
Nov 22 17:11:29 <ferenc> czr: you know this is difficult without you guys having access to the server
Nov 22 17:11:34 * czr nods
Nov 22 17:11:39 <ferenc> we talk about maemo.org and downloads.maemo.org
Nov 22 17:11:49 * czr nods
Nov 22 17:12:04 <czr> does it make difference whether the load comes through https or http?
Nov 22 17:12:16 <X-Fade> As you might have noticed. All news is refreshing again..
Nov 22 17:12:24 <ferenc> czr: yes, it is.
Nov 22 17:12:47 <ferenc> czr: we believe that this hype around karma caused that everybody is using https sessions.
Nov 22 17:12:54 <ferenc> we just did not prepare for that.
Nov 22 17:12:57 * czr nods at ferenc
Nov 22 17:13:09 <czr> you might want to separate the ssl handling to front-end servers running stunnel
Nov 22 17:13:18 <czr> that's the easy (and somewhat hackish) solution
Nov 22 17:13:27 <czr> that way the cpu on the php machine would be free from ssl
Nov 22 17:13:37 <czr> and all ssl handling (sessions and gache)
Nov 22 17:13:42 <czr> gcache even)
Nov 22 17:13:43 <X-Fade> czr: It is not the load from ssl. It is that it isn't cached..
Nov 22 17:13:58 <czr> X-Fade, yes. frontends with stunnels fix that.
Nov 22 17:14:12 <ferenc> czr: that's interesting indeed. we have caching for https now. but we could take a look at your proposal.
Nov 22 17:14:15 <X-Fade> czr: No they won't as you use sessions..
Nov 22 17:14:37 <czr> X-Fade, why do you tie your php-sessions to ssl-sessions?
Nov 22 17:14:39 <X-Fade> czr: And everything is dynamically generated for you..
Nov 22 17:14:40 <czr> there is no need for that.
Nov 22 17:14:57 <czr> or maybe we're talking about different things.
Nov 22 17:15:31 <czr> hmm.
Nov 22 17:15:45 <X-Fade> I has to know if you can comment for example. If you have already commented today, you can't anymore. That sort of things..
Nov 22 17:16:06 <czr> ok. before using too much time, can I suggest something
Nov 22 17:16:17 <Jaffa> don't use HTTPS unless necessary?
Nov 22 17:16:19 <X-Fade> That is all pretty dynamic. The new caching system caches objects internally..
Nov 22 17:16:33 <czr> X-Fade, ference, once things cool down, could you write a short blurb explaining with technical details what the issue is/was and what kind of technical expertise you'd like to have
Nov 22 17:16:51 <czr> X-Fade, but ssl has nothing to do with it, unless bound "manually".
Nov 22 17:16:52 <X-Fade> Jaffa: It isn't the https. To keep you logged in you need sessions. Those cause no-cache..
Nov 22 17:17:12 <czr> ah. no I see
Nov 22 17:17:14 <ferenc> czr: i can collect that info tomorrow. we need the Midgard gurus here as well.
Nov 22 17:17:15 <czr> now even :-)
Nov 22 17:17:19 * czr nods
Nov 22 17:17:54 <czr> problems are expected, no one is claiming otherwise. just more info would be nice. at least you can then afterwards say that "hey, we asked for help, no one came forward, so shut up and let us do our job" :-)
Nov 22 17:18:11 <X-Fade> czr: See it as growing pains..
Nov 22 17:18:27 <czr> X-Fade, I'm not complaining really :-)
Nov 22 17:18:35 <X-Fade> You read the article about the target amount of 770s they expected to sell..
Nov 22 17:18:35 <ferenc> czr: that's right. when we talk about "we" it is actually 3-4 guys at most.
Nov 22 17:18:36 <X-Fade> ?
Nov 22 17:18:41 <czr> I posted 2350, 2351 and 2352 already today :-)
Nov 22 17:18:48 <czr> ferenc, yup
Nov 22 17:18:48 <ferenc> all of us are monitoring this server now.
Nov 22 17:19:13 <czr> btw, ferenc, when you have some spare moment, you might want to take a look at those. shouldn't be hard to fix/rectify.
Nov 22 17:19:14 <ferenc> we had a session today at #karhu (freenode) where we put our heads together.
Nov 22 17:19:28 <czr> sponsored by the finnish beer brewery?
Nov 22 17:19:31 * czr wants in.
Nov 22 17:19:33 <X-Fade> Well, not me at the moment. I'm going to get me some dinner. tty.
Nov 22 17:19:44 <ferenc> czr: not really sponsored :(
Nov 22 17:19:54 <czr> heh, fair enough.. :-)
Nov 22 17:20:03 <ferenc> czr: i may call an other session at #karhu about the site if needed.
Nov 22 17:20:15 <ferenc> let's just give this new cache a couple of days.
Nov 22 17:20:19 <Jaffa> Another thing to communicate when it's gone down is a) when you're doing work [which you've done generally], and b) what kind of SLA we should "expect" (if that's not too formal). For example, if it's your day job, I wouldn't expect things to get fixed over a weekend. However, if there's community involvement, perhaps we can help there.
Nov 22 17:20:19 * czr nods
Nov 22 17:20:37 <czr> you might want to take the couple of days to write a small email and send it on maemo-users and maemo-devel too
Nov 22 17:20:39 <Jaffa> s/when it's gone down/when it's *calmed* down/
Nov 22 17:20:40 <infobot> Jaffa meant: Another thing to communicate when it's *calmed* down is a) when you're doing work [which you've done generally], and b) what kind of SLA we should "expect" (if that's not too formal). For example, if it's your day job, I wouldn't expect things to get fixe...
Nov 22 17:20:46 <czr> just to let people know what's been happening.
Nov 22 17:20:49 <ferenc> czr: point taken
Nov 22 17:21:20 <czr> ferenc, the main issue was a lot of frustration when people were hacking/reading stuff during weekend and things just didn't plain work and no one knew why
Nov 22 17:21:33 <ferenc> Jaffa: that's supposed to be my day job. what X-Fade does at the moment is totally volunteering stuff.
Nov 22 17:21:35 <czr> ferenc, that raised a lot of feelings
Nov 22 17:21:42 <X-Fade> Load on the machine is now reasonable as opposed to freakingly high before. So it looks better..
Nov 22 17:21:47 <czr> great
Nov 22 17:22:01 <ferenc> czr: yeah. i know. Sat evening i got a call from ISP while i was in a baby shop :)
Nov 22 17:22:07 <czr> ouch :-)
Nov 22 17:22:17 <X-Fade> Anyway, now I am really gone to get some dinner :)
Nov 22 17:22:30 <ferenc> thanks X-Fade once again!
Nov 22 17:22:37 <czr> well, I've fixed broken mail servers over the phone from my summer holiday in turkey. via other person typing commands into ssh (which they've never used before, nevermind unix :-)
Nov 22 17:22:38 <ferenc> X-Fade: we talk more tomorrow.
Nov 22 17:22:49 <czr> that was interesting too :-)
Nov 22 17:23:14 <ferenc> Jaffa: that's my day job which i am doing mostly day and night nowadays :(
Nov 22 17:23:33 <czr> ferenc, is it too much to ask what is cidercones role in all this?
Nov 22 17:23:50 <ferenc> but i am off to play with my boy. i wish you all a nice evening or day :)
Nov 22 17:23:57 <czr> ah, ok. have fun :-)
Nov 22 17:23:57 <ferenc> czr: they are the ISP :)
Nov 22 17:24:03 <czr> ah. right :-)
Nov 22 17:24:20 <ferenc> czr: thanks for the proposal again!
Nov 22 17:24:29 <ferenc> bye all!
Nov 22 17:24:30 <czr> np, glad to be of any help really
Nov 22 17:24:39 <rghosh> curious that this video recording gstreamer pipeline command (runnable from the command line) works in os2007 but not os2008 (same device):
Nov 22 17:24:39 <rghosh> gst-launch-0.10 gconfv4l2src ! video/x-raw-yuv,width=176,height=144 ! tee name=tee ! hantro4200enc ! avimux name=mux ! filesink location=test.avi { dsppcmsrc ! queue ! audio/x-raw-int,channels=1,rate=8000 !audioconvert ! mux. } { tee. ! video/x-raw-yuv ! xvimagesink sync=false }
Nov 22 17:24:39 <rghosh> if i change "video/x-raw-yuv,width=176,height=144" to "video/x-raw-yuv,width=176,height=144,framerate=\(fraction\)8/1", it doesn't crash, but it still doesn't work
Nov 22 17:25:27 <vabgeo> great to know that the maemo.org webserver problem is now in control.
Nov 22 17:26:39 * czr nods
Nov 22 17:26:46 <czr> X-Fade, thanks for inviting ferenc
Nov 22 17:32:23 <Jaffa> Now, if only we could get our N810s ;-)
Nov 22 17:32:27 <rghosh> Hmm, I suppose a clue is that in os2007, console output includes "New clock: audioclock0" whereas in os2008 it's "New clock: DSPClock"... I can't see why things should be different on the same device
Nov 22 17:32:40 <vabgeo> jaffa,
Nov 22 17:33:43 <czr> X-Fade, when you return, please see #2356 to see whether it's ok or not.
Nov 22 17:37:35 <vabgeo>  any new news on the dev discount code?
Nov 22 17:37:48 <czr> vabgeo, it is still valid!
Nov 22 17:37:59 <czr> if you mean availability, no. no news.
Nov 22 17:41:21 <vabgeo> ya it still says no balance
Nov 22 17:43:01 <czr> hmm. I wonder whether I should spend this evening productively and file some more bugs
Nov 22 17:44:08 <czr> btw, is there any nice way of getting a list of package names of installed packages? (just the package name list, without the other cruft that dpkg -l displays)
Nov 22 17:45:16 <Slomo232> WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!!
Nov 22 17:45:20 <Slomo232> WRAARRRR!!! I has the Cookies Tooo! WRAARRRR!!!
Nov 22 17:45:39 <sp3000> czr: dpkg -l | awk '/^ii/{print $2}'
Nov 22 17:45:43 * czr wonders what is that spambots idea
Nov 22 17:46:02 <czr> sp3000, I normally use cut with that, but seriously, no simple solution?
Nov 22 17:46:21 <sp3000> that isn't simple? :)
Nov 22 17:46:32 * czr is ashamed to say no.
Nov 22 17:47:02 <czr> but yeah, it will work for now. I use cut -f3- --delim=" " or something similar normally
Nov 22 17:47:54 <sp3000> note that dpkg -l knows about packages that aren't in a properly installed state (e.g removed but not purged config)
Nov 22 17:48:08 <czr> true. I normally also add grep to that :-)
Nov 22 17:48:09 <sp3000> hence the ^ii
Nov 22 17:48:23 <czr> now then. how to fix sbox segfaulting
Nov 22 17:48:31 <sp3000> ...but that's one | more ;)
Nov 22 17:49:13 <czr> yup. how do I filter dpkg -L pkgname list to only include files? :-)
Nov 22 17:49:15 <sp3000> dunno, patch busybox? :)
Nov 22 17:49:16 <kaltsi> apt-cache pkgnames .. I wonder if that prints the pkgs from repository too..
Nov 22 17:49:44 <czr> sp3000, I think it's some kind of race inside sbox actually. whenever a lot of jobs are started, it break down. also when doing a lot of job control stuff
Nov 22 17:50:32 <czr> kaltsi, I think it only uses Packages-files, so yes.
Nov 22 17:50:32 <sp3000> kaltsi: it does
Nov 22 17:50:46 <kaltsi> ok
Nov 22 17:50:59 <czr> actually. what I want to do is the following:
Nov 22 17:51:12 <czr> grep for all SDK files for "Maemo" to see where it is incorrectly typed.
Nov 22 17:51:21 <czr> then, I'm going to repeat the same for "Hildon"
Nov 22 17:51:28 <czr> and then, going to post 200 bugs.
Nov 22 17:52:03 <czr> so looking a construct for that really.
Nov 22 17:53:20 <czr> except that /scratchbox/login segfaulted again
Nov 22 17:53:37 <czr> it clearly disagrees with me
Nov 22 17:56:35 * mgedmin always used dpkg-query -W --showformat '${STATUS} ${PACKAGE}=${VERSION}\n'|grep ' installed '|cut -d ' ' -f 4-
Nov 22 17:57:03 <czr> that's almost like my dpkg line really. sp3000's one is better though
Nov 22 17:58:04 <Andy80> how do I set the keyboard layout in the "emulated" environment under Scratchbox, when I run a graphical application?
Nov 22 17:59:16 <czr> sp3000, kaltsi, any recommendations on how I should start posting the bugs?
Nov 22 17:59:26 <czr> there's going to be a long list of packages involved
Nov 22 18:00:06 <sp3000> dunno
Nov 22 18:00:07 <kaltsi> uh huh
Nov 22 18:00:18 <czr> I'll place them under sdk and let them ripple from there
Nov 22 18:00:29 <kaltsi> I'd collect the list and attach it to one bug
Nov 22 18:00:39 <sp3000> probably better to test the waters at least before unleashing anything of biblical magnitude
Nov 22 18:00:43 <czr> well, that was my gut feeling as well
Nov 22 18:00:58 <czr> but then I thought that "hey, each bug report is more bad karma, right?" :-)
Nov 22 18:01:21 <czr> I'm more worried that a single long list won't get the proper attention
Nov 22 18:01:52 <lcdd> czr: 'dpkg --get-selections' prints a pretty concise list
Nov 22 18:02:06 <bedboi> is anyone actually concerned with maemo-karma?
Nov 22 18:02:12 <bedboi> s/with/about
Nov 22 18:02:14 <czr> lcdd, not bad. thanks
Nov 22 18:02:25 <kaltsi> czr so these bugs are about wrong use of the word maemo?
Nov 22 18:02:25 <czr> bedboi, it was a joke. and it was bad karma :-)
Nov 22 18:02:32 <czr> kaltsi, yes
Nov 22 18:02:46 <czr> which is kind of stupid but I'm just trying to return a favor
Nov 22 18:03:23 <lcdd> czr: you can take that output and kinda sorta copy an installation with dpkg --set-selections
Nov 22 18:03:57 <czr> lcdd, "sorta" is the keyword. there was a more reliable way to do that. don't remeber what though..
Nov 22 18:04:17 <bedboi> czr: i'm asking this because Quim said that "Other users will benefit from this since they will find the feedback better there than in mailing lists archives. These comments and stars will affect your karma (hopefully in a positive way)."
Nov 22 18:05:03 <czr> bedboi, considering that I don't qualify for dev programs anyway, I don't really care much about karma :-)
Nov 22 18:05:21 <czr> I'm just trying to figure out what would be the best way to submit the bugs
Nov 22 18:05:26 <czr> kaltsi, single file, right?
Nov 22 18:05:58 <kaltsi> czr how many are there?
Nov 22 18:06:10 <czr> kaltsi, "many"
Nov 22 18:06:17 <czr> I haven't ran a full analysis yet
Nov 22 18:06:30 <czr> a lot of stuff uses Maemo like it's a noun
Nov 22 18:06:45 <czr> like, wherever they use maemo, they use Maemo instead. irrespective of context.
Nov 22 18:07:11 <czr> it's kind of funny, I thought all this stuff went through legal and all that.
Nov 22 18:07:34 <kaltsi> it does but they're only human
Nov 22 18:07:42 <czr> they're not!
Nov 22 18:07:45 <czr> they're lawyers!
Nov 22 18:07:51 <kaltsi> shh!
Nov 22 18:07:53 <czr> never, ever, compare!
Nov 22 18:08:06 * czr hides from The Department before it's too late
Nov 22 18:08:31 <czr> hmm. I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll do a test run. just to count stuff up
Nov 22 18:08:50 <kaltsi> yep.. let's see the numbers :)
Nov 22 18:09:29 <czr> Binary file /sbin/dosfsck matches
Nov 22 18:09:33 <czr> uhhh. why? :-)
Nov 22 18:09:38 <kaltsi> heh
Nov 22 18:09:51 <czr> fsck.vfat and fsck.msdos match too btw
Nov 22 18:10:13 <czr> " -m       Maemo addition: MBs to spare in the system (default 30)"
Nov 22 18:10:18 <czr> help printout
Nov 22 18:10:25 <czr> courtesy of your friend, 'string'
Nov 22 18:10:41 <czr> that help entry isn't really helpful btw.
Nov 22 18:10:42 <kaltsi> hmm should that be M or m
Nov 22 18:10:58 <kaltsi> it's in the beginning of a sentence, but that's not really a sentence
Nov 22 18:11:03 <czr> yes
Nov 22 18:11:16 <czr> and I'm sure that help page does not have the full trademark clause
Nov 22 18:11:26 <czr> well. pretty certain at least :-)
Nov 22 18:12:59 <czr> /usr/share/themes/plankton/gtk-2.0/gtkrc.maemo_af_desktop
Nov 22 18:13:20 <czr> bins: /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.1000.12
Nov 22 18:13:26 <czr> /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so
Nov 22 18:13:38 <czr> /usr/share/doc/libhildonmime0/hildon-uri-open-rev-1.txt
Nov 22 18:13:52 <czr> /usr/include/libhildonwm/libhildonwm/hd-wm.h (maybe)
Nov 22 18:14:05 <czr> /usr/lib/pkgconfig/libosso.pc (ironic)
Nov 22 18:14:25 <czr> /usr/share/doc/maemo-connectivity-runtime/README.Debian
Nov 22 18:14:34 <czr> /etc/init.d/maemo-launcher
Nov 22 18:14:49 <czr> /usr/share/doc/maemo-sdk-sounds/copyright
Nov 22 18:15:03 <czr> /usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh
Nov 22 18:15:21 <kaltsi> there are many maemo-sdk-something packages
Nov 22 18:15:34 <czr> well obviously
Nov 22 18:15:41 <czr> I don't have the source code of the stuff that goes into IT
Nov 22 18:15:48 <czr> and mind you, this isn't the source code
Nov 22 18:15:53 <czr> this is the binary packages of the SDK
Nov 22 18:16:08 <czr> I'm betting once I'd run this on source code, it would multiply
Nov 22 18:16:48 <czr> kaltsi, what I'm thinking is
Nov 22 18:17:06 <czr> could it be possible that people inside osso/n would just run grep -r Maemo on _their_ stuff and just fix it
Nov 22 18:17:19 <czr> it's pretty useless for me to file bugs against such things
Nov 22 18:17:48 <czr> they might as fix "Application Installer"/"Application Manager"/"Application manager" and "Gconf"/"GConf" and other similar issues
Nov 22 18:17:52 <czr> seems silly
Nov 22 18:18:08 <czr> or, I could develop an automatic tool that'd save the world, and the environment.
Nov 22 18:18:14 <czr> and that would report about these things
Nov 22 18:19:02 <czr> hmm. I should probably try to download sources for each package next
Nov 22 18:19:11 <kaltsi> it's hard to get people to do just this to a package if they're not modifying/planning to modify it otherwise
Nov 22 18:19:51 <czr> I know
Nov 22 18:19:56 <czr> that's why I wanted to ask
Nov 22 18:19:58 <kaltsi> somehow I feel that very few would do anything even if requested, but I'm a pessimist
Nov 22 18:20:01 <czr> [sbox-CHINOOK_X86: ~/maemo-check/clinkc-av-1.0] > grep -r "Maemo" . | wc -l
Nov 22 18:20:01 <czr> 42
Nov 22 18:20:06 <czr> just an example
Nov 22 18:20:20 <czr> all of those uses go against the trademark policy (at least 90% of the ones that I checked)
Nov 22 18:20:39 <czr> what is CyberLink AV anyway?
Nov 22 18:22:00 <kaltsi> CyberLink for C is a UPnP library using C for small and embedded platforms. :)
Nov 22 18:22:14 <kaltsi> mr google told me that
Nov 22 18:22:18 * czr is reading the changelog
Nov 22 18:22:22 <czr> "* Created new release 1.0-13 without .svn directories in the package."
Nov 22 18:22:28 <czr> "* Packages must be created with "-I.svn" flag from now on."
Nov 22 18:22:32 * czr snickers
Nov 22 18:23:35 <czr> well. I guess it's somewhat ironic that a source code distributed under nokia patent license manages to break the trademark guidelines. but that's just me :-)
Nov 22 18:23:45 <czr> kaltsi, I'll stop this insanity
Nov 22 18:23:49 <czr> and just ignore the whole thing
Nov 22 18:23:57 <kaltsi> good choise
Nov 22 18:23:58 <czr> let's pretend we never had this discussion :-)
Nov 22 18:24:53 <kaltsi> I'll ask a lawyer to go and do a global search-replace for the word maemo for every code he finds.. :)
Nov 22 18:25:38 <czr> yeah. ask them to do it on the source code packages
Nov 22 18:25:45 <czr> including shell scripts
Nov 22 18:25:56 <kaltsi> nah just patch the binaries in powerpoint or smtg
Nov 22 18:26:10 <czr> omg, you're using patented microsoft high value intellectual property!
Nov 22 18:26:17 * czr runs to report to King Ballmer
Nov 22 18:26:45 * czr just goes out for a smoke in reality.
Nov 22 18:26:54 <sp3000> smoke signals!
Nov 22 18:27:03 <czr> nah. just relaxation
Nov 22 18:27:06 * czr is King Ballmer
Nov 22 18:27:27 <kaltsi> *developers, developers, developers...*
Nov 22 18:28:00 <czr> you've seen ballmer's peak?
Nov 22 18:28:15 <kaltsi> beak?
Nov 22 18:28:20 <czr> http://xkcd.com/323/
Nov 22 18:28:40 <vegai> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/User:Steve_Ballmer
Nov 22 18:28:50 <kaltsi> haha, me loves xkcd
Nov 22 18:29:10 <kaltsi> hahah
Nov 22 18:29:14 * czr nods
Nov 22 18:29:17 <czr> xkcd <3.
Nov 22 18:29:21 <zumbi> hi, i am a n770 owner, but with old arm IT2005 maemo edition, i'm about to upgrade, but which firmware version is the latest for such device and where do i find it?
Nov 22 18:29:49 <_berto_> there's IT2006 and IT2007HE (hackers' edition)
Nov 22 18:29:57 <_berto_> afaik IT2006 is the official one
Nov 22 18:30:05 <_berto_> the other one is for hackers
Nov 22 18:30:36 <zumbi> _berto_: can i gain root on both editions?
Nov 22 18:32:09 <_berto_> I think so, but I haven't got either one
Nov 22 18:32:15 * zumbi sees the answer in the wiki :-)
Nov 22 18:32:27 <vegai> xkcd has nothing on uncyclopedia :-|
Nov 22 18:32:51 <vegai> someone needs to write an article about Maemo there, however
Nov 22 18:33:09 <vegai> but at least there's http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Nokia
Nov 22 18:33:14 <kaltsi> ha! trademark violation right there.. czr, call the boyz!
Nov 22 18:33:15 <czr> zumbi, you can. you have to set the device into r&d mode with the flasher
Nov 22 18:33:35 <czr> kaltsi, who do you think I invited on the channel already ages ago?
Nov 22 18:33:36 <czr> :-)
Nov 22 18:33:51 <czr> explains the sudden +10 increase in nicks
Nov 22 18:34:10 <kaltsi> the gorillas I presume
Nov 22 18:34:11 <czr> I invited the lawyers and _their_ lawyers!
Nov 22 18:34:20 * vegai laughs.
Nov 22 18:34:48 <czr> ok. maybe I should concentrate on real bugs instead for a while :-)
Nov 22 18:35:01 <vegai> sadly, the Nokia article isn't very good
Nov 22 18:35:04 <kaltsi> czr someone is working on the hello-world now
Nov 22 18:35:10 <czr> kaltsi, cool
Nov 22 18:35:20 <czr> kaltsi, will they fix the TN applet issue as well?
Nov 22 18:35:26 <czr> I never got the applet on OS2008
Nov 22 18:35:31 <kaltsi> czr and someone also said that the app manager should work if it's in red pill mode.. didn't test it though (lazy)
Nov 22 18:35:54 <czr> that's not a proper solution though
Nov 22 18:36:06 <kaltsi> yea it's a bit smelly
Nov 22 18:36:27 <czr> how do I set it into red pill mode?
Nov 22 18:36:56 <kaltsi> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationmanagerredpillmode/
Nov 22 18:37:35 <kaltsi> aha it even mentions that install from file there
Nov 22 18:38:18 <czr> not really
Nov 22 18:38:22 <czr> "It would allow you to install every package with "Install from file", not just the ones in section "user"."
Nov 22 18:38:26 <czr> this is not the issue
Nov 22 18:38:36 <czr> the package I tried to install was in user-section
Nov 22 18:38:47 <kaltsi> ok.. didn't know that
Nov 22 18:38:54 <czr> I'll test, hold on
Nov 22 18:39:16 <kaltsi> afk brb
Nov 22 18:40:11 <czr> kaltsi, doesn't fix the issue at all
Nov 22 18:40:19 <czr> the bug holds
Nov 22 18:40:36 <timeless> konttori: ping
Nov 22 18:42:39 <kaltsi> czr ok.. bah I should have tested it myself too
Nov 22 18:42:58 <czr> kaltsi, np, was quick enough to test. red pill doesn't fix it. maybe the other person misunderstood the issue
Nov 22 18:45:54 <acydlord> happy thanksgiving to those of you that celebrate it
Nov 22 18:46:17 <czr> is the "yay, we fought off the evil british people"-thingy?
Nov 22 18:46:21 <czr> is it even
Nov 22 18:46:39 <kaltsi> czr hm I can't even go to the catalogue page in AM..
Nov 22 18:46:47 <kaltsi> hildon-application-manager[21360]: GLIB CRITICAL ** default - void show_catalogue_dialog(xexp*, bool, void (*)(bool, void*), void*): assertion `catalogues != NULL' failed
Nov 22 18:47:14 <acydlord> it's the yay we floated across the pond and made friends with the natives thing
Nov 22 18:47:18 <czr> hmm. tools -> application catalogue?
Nov 22 18:47:26 <czr> acydlord, ah, that one.
Nov 22 18:47:33 <czr> slaughterationfest
Nov 22 18:47:42 <kaltsi> czr yep that fails .. sniff
Nov 22 18:47:59 <czr> kaltsi, weird. works for me. although I'm running with my hack now again
Nov 22 18:48:05 <czr> hacks even
Nov 22 18:48:07 <timeless> czr: can you ask konttori why ukmp doesn't install for us :)
Nov 22 18:48:12 <kaltsi> I do have the 2-TN menu thingy going on
Nov 22 18:48:19 <czr> konttori, why ukmp doesn't install for us?
Nov 22 18:48:28 <czr> kaltsi, I don't think it should affect it
Nov 22 18:48:30 <kaltsi> timeless: it did install for me yesterday..
Nov 22 18:49:01 <kaltsi> but not before yesterday
Nov 22 18:49:39 <czr> eww. running red pill makes all packages visible in AM
Nov 22 18:49:47 * czr goes to disable red pill asap
Nov 22 18:50:05 <sp3000> czr: there's those checkboxen in the options
Nov 22 18:50:20 <czr> sp3000, yeah, but I don't really need/want red pill
Nov 22 18:50:29 <czr> it was just on to test one of kaltsis hypotheses
Nov 22 18:50:52 <sp3000> (and yeah, the ui is kinda useless with all pkgs :)
Nov 22 18:51:54 <czr> glad vollmert isn't around hearing that
Nov 22 18:51:58 <czr> he'd spank you, you know :-)
Nov 22 18:54:37 <czr> sometimes I find reading this refreshing: http://www.dadgum.com/halcyon/BOOK/MISC/LLAMA.HTM
Nov 22 18:54:47 <czr> whenever you're in doubt. read that :-)
Nov 22 19:04:42 <GNUton> Hi!
Nov 22 19:05:11 <K`zan> czr, so that is why all that stuff appeared after enabling red pill, thanks, will set blue.
Nov 22 19:05:52 <GNUton> is maemo using openGl?
Nov 22 19:05:54 <czr> K`zan, yes. it was my fault
Nov 22 19:05:56 <czr> GNUton, no
Nov 22 19:06:01 <czr> and not OpenGL either.
Nov 22 19:06:10 <czr> no 3D whatsoever.
Nov 22 19:06:19 <K`zan> czr: I don't think so, had to turn it on for some game that was incomplete.
Nov 22 19:06:24 <GNUton> czr: ok..
Nov 22 19:06:52 <czr> K`zan, it still might be might fault though :-)
Nov 22 19:06:59 * czr wants to be the /evil.
Nov 22 19:07:05 <GNUton> is a good choice compile a package with -03 make flag?
Nov 22 19:07:15 <K`zan> czr, if you need guilt, got for it :).  Easy resource to acquire these days :-)
Nov 22 19:07:48 <K`zan> Love this thing MORE today, lots less problems in 2007.
Nov 22 19:07:50 <czr> K`zan, sure. I don't feel a thing anymore anyway :-)
Nov 22 19:08:29 <K`zan> Software developer, I can tell.  Gets to be that way after the 3rd of 4th year of very frequent all nighters :-) LOL!
Nov 22 19:08:58 <K`zan> BTDT...
Nov 22 19:09:17 <kaltsi> gnuton: yes why not, but it makes debugging a bit harder, but if it's a finished product and you are looking for some performance improvements, go ahead
Nov 22 19:09:45 <K`zan> Decided to hold off on the 2008 dev stuff until it is actually released for the n800.
Nov 22 19:09:59 <GNUton> kaltsi: ok.. thank! :)
Nov 22 19:10:27 <K`zan> On second (75th) though that might not be a good idea, at least I could get it installed and start getting familiar with it leasurely.
Nov 22 19:11:23 <czr> K`zan, 4.0 isn't all that different from 3.2
Nov 22 19:11:45 <K`zan> czr: At this point my knowledge level of any of it is ZERO :-/.
Nov 22 19:11:47 <czr> mainly lib name changes and couple of APIs and such. depends on which level you do your programming really
Nov 22 19:12:03 <czr> K`zan, which language are you planning to use?
Nov 22 19:12:18 <K`zan> czr: Going to have to figure out where I fit, if at all, into all this :-).
Nov 22 19:12:30 <K`zan> Forth?  COBOL?  ADA?
Nov 22 19:12:33 <czr> if you're small, you'll fit in many places, don't worry :-)
Nov 22 19:12:47 <czr> more like, C, Python or Ruby? :-)
Nov 22 19:12:48 <kaltsi> sorry, no forth for os2008 :(
Nov 22 19:12:49 <K`zan> Less small as the years pass :).
Nov 22 19:12:52 <K`zan> :-(
Nov 22 19:12:58 <K`zan> Have to be C then.
Nov 22 19:13:38 <K`zan> czr: Yes, oh busy one :-)
Nov 22 19:19:45 <Andy80> Glade doesn't let me set the Image for a GtkButton... why?
Nov 22 19:34:23 <lopz> re
Nov 22 19:37:53 <czr> necessary accessories to all finnish-speaking maemo-devs: http://emailman.1g.fi/kuvat/IMG_0975.JPG
Nov 22 19:39:26 <Dasajev> :)
Nov 22 19:40:23 <vabgeo> Andy80, did u try gtk_button_set_image function?
Nov 22 19:41:01 <Andy80> vabgeo: not yet... I'm still at the Glade phase :)
Nov 22 19:41:32 <vabgeo> k, r u using it in python?
Nov 22 19:42:27 <vabgeo> i meant r u going to use with pygtk or c
Nov 22 19:43:32 <czr> anyone have a n810 with a recent fw close by? to verify one bug
Nov 22 19:43:34 <czr> buglet even
Nov 22 19:44:09 <timeless> it's in my backpack
Nov 22 19:44:37 <timeless> yes
Nov 22 19:47:46 <czr> timeless, start maps, then select about
Nov 22 19:47:57 <czr> about map -> about map
Nov 22 19:48:05 <czr> what do the copyright strings look to you?
Nov 22 19:48:21 <czr> +like
Nov 22 19:48:22 <timeless> :)
Nov 22 19:48:25 <timeless> cute
Nov 22 19:48:36 <czr> I'll report it
Nov 22 19:48:38 <czr> just wanted to verify
Nov 22 19:48:54 <timeless> sadly, that isn't on my list of bugs i recall spotting in maps
Nov 22 19:48:57 <timeless> and i had a *very* long list
Nov 22 19:49:00 <czr> heh
Nov 22 19:49:05 <czr> I can't blame you
Nov 22 19:49:10 <czr> it's navicore methinks
Nov 22 19:49:16 <timeless> wayfinder
Nov 22 19:49:22 <timeless> it's contracted, if that's what you're saying
Nov 22 19:49:34 <czr> yes
Nov 22 19:49:45 <timeless> a large number of bugs are because of that, sure
Nov 22 19:49:48 <czr> timeless, http://www.navicoretech.com/Corporate/Press/news/en_GB/wayfinder_n810/
Nov 22 19:49:51 <timeless> Exit being one of them
Nov 22 19:50:03 <czr> it also looks pretty ugly
Nov 22 19:50:10 <czr> although I've never used used any gps app before
Nov 22 19:50:12 <czr> but still.
Nov 22 19:50:18 <timeless> yes, it is very ugly
Nov 22 19:50:29 <timeless> you can play w/ my n81 8gb next week
Nov 22 19:50:31 <timeless> for comparison
Nov 22 19:50:41 <czr> what is it running?
Nov 22 19:50:46 <timeless> or maps on my e61i
Nov 22 19:50:51 <timeless> they both have a map app
Nov 22 19:50:55 <czr> I've seen tom-tom in real use
Nov 22 19:51:01 <czr> it was pretty pretty
Nov 22 19:51:05 <timeless> dunno if google java maps can access gps
Nov 22 19:51:14 <timeless> ok, this is strange
Nov 22 19:51:21 <kaltsi> hm what's wrong with the copyright strings?
Nov 22 19:51:23 <timeless> i'm trying to decide if my phone is confused
Nov 22 19:51:31 <timeless> kaltsi: what locale are you using?
Nov 22 19:51:35 <kaltsi> english
Nov 22 19:51:39 <timeless> kaltsi: what locale are you using?
Nov 22 19:51:48 <timeless> ok, my n81 8gb is going crazy
Nov 22 19:52:07 <czr> kaltsi, did you check?
Nov 22 19:52:09 <kaltsi> language english, regional settings finnish
Nov 22 19:52:12 <kaltsi> czr yes
Nov 22 19:52:25 <czr> kaltsi, I see A+'(c)
Nov 22 19:52:30 <czr> kaltsi, which fw-rel?
Nov 22 19:52:35 <timeless> kaltsi: there are two English's
Nov 22 19:52:37 <timeless> which
Nov 22 19:52:53 <kaltsi> UK
Nov 22 19:52:57 <czr> or which map version (in the same place as about>about)
Nov 22 19:53:12 <kaltsi> this is the wk 46-11
Nov 22 19:53:29 <timeless> 46-11 isn't official
Nov 22 19:53:43 <czr> ah. I'm running 32-18
Nov 22 19:53:47 <czr> 42-18 even :-)
Nov 22 19:54:02 <timeless> it could be fixed i suppose
Nov 22 19:54:05 <timeless> hold?
Nov 22 19:54:08 <czr> ok, not reporting then. thanks kaltsi
Nov 22 19:54:09 <kaltsi> the about doesn't say a version for the map here.. it just says 'Map'
Nov 22 19:54:23 <czr> kaltsi, about map -> about map -> versio (last = button)
Nov 22 19:54:28 <czr> version even
Nov 22 19:54:57 <czr> mine i App v.2.2.6.299, Map v.2.2.1.328 TA2006.07
Nov 22 19:55:02 <czr> mine is
Nov 22 19:55:05 <timeless> czr: ok, found the bits
Nov 22 19:55:08 <kaltsi> doh.. ok App v2.2.6.344, map v.2.2.1.340, TA2006.07
Nov 22 19:55:12 <timeless> a few secs and i can compare w/ kaltsi's version
Nov 22 19:55:15 <czr> (btw, all typos are due to alcohol intake, not my general suckyness)
Nov 22 19:55:30 <czr> timeless, which bits?
Nov 22 19:55:44 <czr> kaltsi, guess it's been fixed then
Nov 22 19:55:47 <czr> cool, thanks
Nov 22 19:56:09 <timeless> hrm
Nov 22 19:56:14 <timeless> the string is the same in 46
Nov 22 19:56:26 <timeless> if they fixed it, they fixed it by changing the encodings or not using the string
Nov 22 19:56:42 <timeless> please file the bug
Nov 22 19:57:00 <timeless> bugs against released products (n810 is released) should be reported
Nov 22 19:57:05 <timeless> so that people can know that they're fixed
Nov 22 19:57:10 <czr> but I'm not running a released product
Nov 22 19:57:13 <czr> mine reads "N00"
Nov 22 19:57:34 <czr> although N00B would be much better
Nov 22 19:57:45 <timeless> you're running the official software version
Nov 22 19:57:51 * czr shrugs
Nov 22 19:57:54 <timeless> the hardware is not what's causing your flakiness
Nov 22 19:57:58 <czr> I was given this, so I'm running it :-)
Nov 22 19:58:11 <czr> hmm, let me check my language/locale-settings
Nov 22 19:58:40 <timeless> kaltsi: what does data source say for you?
Nov 22 19:58:54 <czr> English (USA) / Suomi (Suomi) (last being regional)
Nov 22 19:59:19 <kaltsi> timeless: (c) 2006 Tele Atlas N.V.
Nov 22 19:59:43 <timeless> ok
Nov 22 19:59:45 <timeless> the files are different
Nov 22 19:59:48 <timeless> between gb and us
Nov 22 20:00:27 <timeless> only us is corrupt
Nov 22 20:00:28 <czr> the us uses wrong encoding?
Nov 22 20:00:33 <timeless> and it's still corrupt in 46
Nov 22 20:00:38 <czr> ok. I'll file?
Nov 22 20:00:40 <czr> I want to!
Nov 22 20:00:43 <timeless> please
Nov 22 20:00:48 <timeless> be sure to specify us!
Nov 22 20:00:56 <czr> timeless & kaltsi, ok!
Nov 22 20:01:00 * czr hides & runs
Nov 22 20:01:12 <timeless> s/us/US/ :(
Nov 22 20:01:13 <czr> "The bug is caused by timeless & kaltsi"
Nov 22 20:01:50 <czr> timeless, I'll try to collect all the info from the discussion here
Nov 22 20:02:05 <timeless> bah, your phone doesn't seem to work
Nov 22 20:02:10 <czr> btw, there's no app category for "maps"
Nov 22 20:02:15 <czr> mine?
Nov 22 20:02:16 <_Monkey> i guess mine is not
Nov 22 20:02:16 <timeless> doesn't matter
Nov 22 20:02:22 <timeless> use translations
Nov 22 20:02:24 <timeless> it's its own product
Nov 22 20:02:29 <timeless> but i'll fix maps i suppose
Nov 22 20:02:35 <timeless> proposal for how to deal w/ it?
Nov 22 20:02:40 <czr> it works
Nov 22 20:02:44 <timeless> where did you look for maps?
Nov 22 20:02:46 <czr> but I'm wearing headphones :-)
Nov 22 20:02:49 <timeless> _monkey forget mine
Nov 22 20:02:50 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot mine
Nov 22 20:02:55 <czr> and the phone was in the other room :-)
Nov 22 20:02:56 <timeless> _monkey mine is <reply>
Nov 22 20:02:57 <_Monkey> OK, timeless.
Nov 22 20:03:09 <timeless> did you fix that? :)
Nov 22 20:03:19 <czr> the phone? yes. it's close now
Nov 22 20:03:39 <Tieku> hello
Nov 22 20:03:51 <timeless> that's my n81 8gb playing noise for you :)
Nov 22 20:03:58 <czr> haha
Nov 22 20:03:58 <timeless> how's the noise sound? :)
Nov 22 20:04:09 <timeless> you think you're drunk?
Nov 22 20:04:10 <czr> sounds like some very very deeply compressed hillbilly thingies :-)
Nov 22 20:04:20 <czr> yeah, hearing voices from deep space :-)
Nov 22 20:04:31 <timeless> i've heard this effect before
Nov 22 20:04:34 <timeless> i can't remember what it's called
Nov 22 20:04:43 <czr> the tin-can effect
Nov 22 20:04:47 <czr> but this one was much worse
Nov 22 20:04:48 <timeless> the strange thing is that the normal audio is still playing
Nov 22 20:04:49 <sp3000> the hillbillies from outer space effect?
Nov 22 20:04:55 <czr> sp3000, exactly!
Nov 22 20:05:00 <timeless> sp3000: do i have your contact info?
Nov 22 20:05:11 <timeless> nope
Nov 22 20:05:13 <sp3000> I have no idea what that means :)
Nov 22 20:05:23 <czr> he wants to exchange mobile business cards!
Nov 22 20:05:28 * czr didn't know that either :-)
Nov 22 20:05:43 <czr> I tried to explain to timeless that no one does that here, but what can I do! :-)
Nov 22 20:06:07 <czr> timeless, where's the translations product?
Nov 22 20:06:15 <czr> ah, found it
Nov 22 20:07:07 <timeless> gah
Nov 22 20:07:12 <timeless> my browser's going crazy too
Nov 22 20:07:24 <czr> timeless, what do you call those A-symbols anyway?
Nov 22 20:07:25 <czr> A-acute?
Nov 22 20:07:29 <czr> no. what were they..
Nov 22 20:07:37 <timeless> hat :)
Nov 22 20:07:43 <sp3000> diaeresis, ring, acute, grave?
Nov 22 20:07:46 <timeless> it's not accute
Nov 22 20:07:46 <sp3000> oh, and hat :)
Nov 22 20:07:46 <czr> that's not official :-)
Nov 22 20:07:53 <timeless> circumflex
Nov 22 20:08:01 <K`zan> squiggle
Nov 22 20:08:01 <timeless> this is what charmap.exe is for
Nov 22 20:08:03 <czr> you sure?
Nov 22 20:08:06 <timeless> did you leave hom w/o it?
Nov 22 20:08:08 <timeless> yes
Nov 22 20:08:13 * czr hits timeless with an i18n slamon
Nov 22 20:08:19 <czr> salmon even
Nov 22 20:08:25 <timeless> U+00C2: Latin Capital LEtter A With Circumflex
Nov 22 20:08:34 <timeless> so says microsoft
Nov 22 20:08:40 <czr> but that's not unicode codepoint
Nov 22 20:08:49 <timeless> sure it is
Nov 22 20:08:49 <czr> A + Circumflex I'll call it.
Nov 22 20:08:53 <czr> it can't be
Nov 22 20:08:59 <timeless> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/00c2/index.htm
Nov 22 20:09:00 <czr> can it?
Nov 22 20:09:17 * czr checks unicode.org
Nov 22 20:09:40 <timeless> you don't trust file format?
Nov 22 20:09:47 <czr> I trust no one!
Nov 22 20:09:52 <czr> but I want to believe!
Nov 22 20:09:59 <czr> conundrum^2.
Nov 22 20:10:11 <czr> 00C2 it is
Nov 22 20:10:12 * timeless doesn't think we make that
Nov 22 20:10:26 <czr> or rathar 000000C2
Nov 22 20:10:31 <czr> UCS-4 ftw!
Nov 22 20:10:34 <czr> rather even
Nov 22 20:10:59 * timeless grumbles
Nov 22 20:11:08 <timeless> ok, how the heck do i get a vcard from this stupid phonebook
Nov 22 20:11:15 <timeless> in the old days there was a convenient save link
Nov 22 20:12:54 <czr> timeless, kaltsi : bug 2359
Nov 22 20:12:54 <_Monkey> Bug 2359 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2359
Nov 22 20:13:19 <czr> timeless, feel free to correct it. I'm slightly drunk after all :-)
Nov 22 20:14:20 <timeless> czr: the sound changed between when i called you and when i called sp3000 :(~
Nov 22 20:14:37 <czr> sp3000, actually enjoyed the noises?
Nov 22 20:14:42 <czr> -,
Nov 22 20:14:43 <timeless> doubtful
Nov 22 20:14:48 <timeless> your noise was better
Nov 22 20:14:51 <czr> heh
Nov 22 20:15:31 <czr> you're talking to the person who has this in "current projects list": "MUPE/Chirp (Most Useless Project Ever): software build process audiolizer (suprisingly enough binary object files do not sound like white noise). On hold."
Nov 22 20:15:38 <czr> I know what noise sounds like! believe me.
Nov 22 20:16:05 <czr> and no, I didn't have time to finish that. but the basic process works. it hijacks gcc and ld
Nov 22 20:16:13 <czr> and plays back object files as they complete
Nov 22 20:16:15 <Tieku> czr: hi, you helped me out before cheers :) i've made alot of progress on getting my n800 to access a network samba share. the key command was to use insmod ./cifs.ko. however that becomes undone each time the n800 is rebooted. what part of linux can i get to run that command or equivilant at boot as root?
Nov 22 20:16:42 <Tieku> hope thats clear enough :)
Nov 22 20:16:45 <czr> Tieku, hmm. the n800 isn't exactly your regular linux distribution. let me looksee
Nov 22 20:16:50 <czr> yeah, I get your question.
Nov 22 20:16:54 <czr> not sure about the answer though :-)
Nov 22 20:17:12 <timeless> isn't rc.d around?
Nov 22 20:17:18 <Tieku> to be honest its my first linux distro so im learning :)
Nov 22 20:17:43 <Tieku> which directory would it be in?
Nov 22 20:17:44 <timeless> /etc/rc*.d
Nov 22 20:17:50 <timeless> those exist anyway
Nov 22 20:17:54 <Tieku> yes
Nov 22 20:17:58 <timeless> understanding them is an exercise for google/wikipedia
Nov 22 20:17:59 <Tieku> i have those
Nov 22 20:17:59 <czr> yup
Nov 22 20:18:02 <czr>  /etc/rcS.d
Nov 22 20:18:08 <Tieku> they can run commands as root?
Nov 22 20:18:09 <czr> put a script there that will insmod
Nov 22 20:18:11 <czr> yes
Nov 22 20:18:17 <Tieku> excellent thanks guys :)
Nov 22 20:18:22 <czr> Tieku, do this:
Nov 22 20:18:35 <Tieku> just need that push in the right direction -- planning to write a tutorial for wiki after all this!
Nov 22 20:18:35 <czr> cat > /etc/rcS.d/S99awesomehack
Nov 22 20:18:37 <czr> then:
Nov 22 20:18:39 <czr> #!/bin/sh
Nov 22 20:18:47 <czr> insmod /path/to/your/cifs.ko
Nov 22 20:18:49 <czr> Ctrl+d
Nov 22 20:18:58 <czr> chmod +x /etc/rcS.d/S99awesomehack
Nov 22 20:19:11 <timeless> echo #!/bin/sh > /etc/rcS.d/S99awesomehack
Nov 22 20:19:19 <timeless> echo insmod /path/to/your/cifs.ko >> /etc/rcS.d/S99awesomehack
Nov 22 20:19:24 <timeless> safer than figuring out ctrl-d :)
Nov 22 20:19:32 <czr> noo!
Nov 22 20:19:42 <czr> well, either way will work!
Nov 22 20:19:44 <Tieku> cheers guys. i'll do a little reading first :)
Nov 22 20:19:47 <czr> just don't listen to timeless!
Nov 22 20:19:48 <czr> :-)
Nov 22 20:20:18 <timeless> sp3000: does the sound remind you of a plumber ?
Nov 22 20:20:37 <sp3000> echo #... won't work that well :)
Nov 22 20:20:53 <czr> ha!
Nov 22 20:20:53 <timeless> timeless@swift:/tmp/microb-l10n% echo #a
Nov 22 20:20:54 <timeless> #a
Nov 22 20:20:58 <timeless> wfm (solaris)
Nov 22 20:21:03 <sp3000> I ...don't know plumbers that intimately I'm afraid
Nov 22 20:21:08 <czr> timeless, your N800 runs solaris? ;-)
Nov 22 20:21:17 <timeless> no, but swift does :)
Nov 22 20:21:22 <sp3000> your shell is different ;)
Nov 22 20:21:36 <czr> "challenged" even.
Nov 22 20:21:37 <timeless> [sbox-i386-csgcc34.build: ~] > echo \#a
Nov 22 20:21:38 <timeless> #a
Nov 22 20:21:54 <timeless> ok. for busybox you seem to need '
Nov 22 20:21:57 <timeless> \
Nov 22 20:22:03 <timeless> challenged indeed
Nov 22 20:22:12 <czr> I'd assume you'd need an escape for most shells just to be one the safe side
Nov 22 20:22:25 <czr> s/one/on/g
Nov 22 20:22:25 <infobot> czr meant: I'd assume you'd need an escape for most shells just to be on the safe side
Nov 22 20:22:28 <timeless> i was using zsh on solaris
Nov 22 20:22:47 <timeless> why anyone would use busybox is beyond me ;-)
Nov 22 20:23:01 <czr> they might be using behind your back!
Nov 22 20:23:12 <czr> ug-haxors and all.
Nov 22 20:23:35 <czr> timeless, confess, it was you who wrote hello-world-app that assumed array support in /bin/sh, right?
Nov 22 20:23:54 <timeless> czr: no, that was gisburn
Nov 22 20:24:02 <timeless> (ask sp3000 for context)
Nov 22 20:24:10 <czr> sp3000, I need context!
Nov 22 20:24:24 <czr> ENOCONTEXT.
Nov 22 20:24:32 <sp3000> for wh
Nov 22 20:24:37 <czr> for gisburn
Nov 22 20:25:00 <czr> although I'm 55% sure timeless is just pulling my leg.
Nov 22 20:25:32 <timeless> www.osdevcon.org/2007/slides/osoldevconf2007_ksh93_talk_slides_version100.pdf
Nov 22 20:25:35 <timeless> will probably work
Nov 22 20:25:55 * sp3000 doesn't find the edge (gisburn, hello-world-app)
Nov 22 20:26:04 <timeless> gisburn used to be interested in mozilla/sun
Nov 22 20:26:11 <timeless> now he's driving ksh93 for opensolaris
Nov 22 20:26:22 <czr> ah
Nov 22 20:26:24 <timeless> ksh93 includes arrays,and all sorts of interesting things
Nov 22 20:26:42 <czr> well. whoever wrote the pre/postinsts in hello-world-app should be "educated"
Nov 22 20:26:49 <timeless> heh
Nov 22 20:26:58 <czr> although I've run across the same problems before
Nov 22 20:27:08 <timeless> sorry, i don't know who did stuff @nokia
Nov 22 20:27:13 <timeless> i'd assume they predate my joining
Nov 22 20:27:15 <czr> the world is filled is crappy scripts which use bashisms and still use #!/bin/sh
Nov 22 20:27:32 <timeless> i think ubuntu is helping fix that
Nov 22 20:27:36 <timeless> by switching to dash :)
Nov 22 20:27:39 <czr> indeed!
Nov 22 20:27:47 <czr> that's one of the issues I had to educate HP about
Nov 22 20:27:50 <czr> damn morons
Nov 22 20:27:59 <timeless> heh
Nov 22 20:27:59 <czr> sorry for venting. but it's just too silly.
Nov 22 20:29:17 * timeless loves cryptographically signed change versions
Nov 22 20:30:02 <mgedmin> maemo.org/downloads has improved *a lot* since I last saw it
Nov 22 20:30:08 <mgedmin> kudos to developers!
Nov 22 20:31:35 <inz> The title is a bit funny
Nov 22 20:32:04 <mgedmin> hm, many screenshots have disappeared
Nov 22 20:32:19 <mgedmin> well, a few
Nov 22 20:32:26 <mgedmin> I remember uploading a screenshot of maemo mapper once
Nov 22 20:34:47 <timeless> hrm, someone wanna file bugs on bomberman for me? :)
Nov 22 20:35:09 <czr> mgedmin, send an email to maemo2midgard, I'm sure the webpeople would appreciate some positive feedback for a change :-). although I'm not sure that's the proper list
Nov 22 20:35:10 <timeless> hey, does the fornt page of maemo.org/downloads/OS2007 have an error for anyone else?
Nov 22 20:35:21 <timeless> ( ! ) Warning: file_get_contents(/var/cache/midgard/midcom/content/maemo.org_80_/838549fc80c511dc9bb2f92a2dda9c409c40) [function.file-get-contents]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /usr/share/midgard/svn/midcom/trunk/src/midcom.core/midcom/services/cache/backend/flatfile.php on line 83
Nov 22 20:35:32 <czr> works-for-me
Nov 22 20:35:43 <czr> cached file timeless?
Nov 22 20:35:52 <timeless> doubtful
Nov 22 20:35:57 <timeless> i don't visit these pages often
Nov 22 20:36:08 <mgedmin> any ideas why I can edit the page for the OS2006 version of maemo mapper, but not the OS2007 version?
Nov 22 20:36:13 <timeless> lastupdated 2007-11-20 08:05:572
Nov 22 20:36:19 <czr> well. no errors here
Nov 22 20:37:44 <mgedmin> whee, "( ! ) Notice: A non well formed numeric value encountered in /usr/share/midgard/svn/midcom/trunk/src/midcom.core/midcom/services/cache/module/content.php on line 1105"
Nov 22 20:37:57 <mgedmin> and the same for line 1108
Nov 22 20:38:26 <timeless> ug 2360 Submitted
Nov 22 20:39:12 <timeless> ok, you can see the pretty page i got :)
Nov 22 20:39:41 <timeless> um
Nov 22 20:39:44 <timeless> it won't let me login
Nov 22 20:40:11 <timeless> at all
Nov 22 20:40:16 <czr> seems slow to me
Nov 22 20:40:26 * sp3000 got three stacks on first load, but nothing much happening on the second load
Nov 22 20:40:40 <czr> but then again, they wanted us to bang the server!
Nov 22 20:40:43 <mgedmin> I think I now understand why everyone is griping about maemo.org
Nov 22 20:40:50 <kaltsi> someone might be working on it.. it was really fast.. wouldn't let me login.. then it slowed down and I was able to login.. now login doesn't work again
Nov 22 20:40:51 <timeless> hey, it's half up
Nov 22 20:40:55 <timeless> that's more than when people gripe
Nov 22 20:40:59 <timeless> (it's usually entirely down)
Nov 22 20:41:06 <czr> it works for me, but it's either fast or slow
Nov 22 20:41:09 <timeless> these are just application errors :)
Nov 22 20:41:46 <czr> hmm. should probably test some of the applications too
Nov 22 20:42:33 <timeless> does planet work today?
Nov 22 20:42:45 <timeless> ok, vern is way too long winded :)
Nov 22 20:43:32 <timeless> ok, whomever kaltsi is, his profile isn't loading at all
Nov 22 20:43:44 <kaltsi> that's me
Nov 22 20:43:59 <timeless> unfortunately, it's kinda poitnless
Nov 22 20:44:06 <timeless> since i didn't want your profile
Nov 22 20:44:11 <timeless> i wanted to read your blog
Nov 22 20:44:25 <czr> does anyone else find the whole NOKIA notice somewhat silly?
Nov 22 20:44:34 <czr> since none of the apps are provided by nokia to start with? :-)
Nov 22 20:44:55 <kaltsi> in 2007 at least the FM Radio app is nokia :)
Nov 22 20:45:10 <mgedmin> strange
Nov 22 20:45:12 <timeless> czr: which notice?
Nov 22 20:45:25 <mgedmin> I uploaded two different screenshots for two different apps in two different tabs
Nov 22 20:45:27 <czr> on the main OS2007 page in downloads. or OS2008
Nov 22 20:45:41 <mgedmin> but when the requests finally got through, I see one app with a duplicated screenshot and the other app with no screenshots at all
Nov 22 20:45:42 <mgedmin> bug?
Nov 22 20:45:53 <timeless> heh
Nov 22 20:45:58 <timeless> sounds buggy to me :)
Nov 22 20:46:02 <czr> mgedmin, wait for couple of days. maybe they're still fixing something
Nov 22 20:46:16 <czr> but the whole site seems very slow to me now
Nov 22 20:46:40 <timeless> http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2007/internet/
Nov 22 20:46:49 <timeless> it doesn't say Mozilla based browser is provided by nokia
Nov 22 20:46:53 <timeless> who do we have to bribe?
Nov 22 20:47:21 <timeless> ooh, clicking on the pictures zooms them
Nov 22 20:47:34 <timeless> ah yes
Nov 22 20:47:34 <czr> just hover over them
Nov 22 20:47:40 <timeless> fm radio does have the nokia icon
Nov 22 20:47:48 <timeless> so does media streamer for n800
Nov 22 20:48:02 <maddler> evening all...
Nov 22 20:48:23 <timeless> hovering doesn't seem to do anything
Nov 22 20:48:24 <czr> I'm getting only stalls from maemo.org now
Nov 22 20:48:31 <czr> timeless, works here (konq)
Nov 22 20:48:39 <czr> old konq at that too
Nov 22 20:49:00 <timeless> so, seriously
Nov 22 20:49:08 <timeless> how does one badge something as nokia?
Nov 22 20:49:13 <timeless> i already did it on garage/trove
Nov 22 20:49:39 <czr> copy the nice nokia logo into the screenshot? ;-)
Nov 22 20:49:46 <timeless> :)
Nov 22 20:50:16 <timeless> https://garage.maemo.org/softwaremap/trove_cloud.php?form_cat=311
Nov 22 20:50:27 <timeless> still lists a bunch of things that i have to assume are *not* nokia provided
Nov 22 20:50:29 <X-Fade> timeless: I asked Quim to mark all Nokia applications as Nokia..
Nov 22 20:50:37 <X-Fade> I have only marked a few to test..
Nov 22 20:50:39 <timeless> x-fade: i balme you
Nov 22 20:50:51 <X-Fade> You want me to update microb? :)
Nov 22 20:51:00 <timeless> in downloads? yes
Nov 22 20:51:04 <timeless> since i marked microb in garage
Nov 22 20:51:18 <timeless> but why are italian docs, sherlock, illumination all listed as nokia provided?
Nov 22 20:51:21 <timeless> (garage)
Nov 22 20:51:42 <X-Fade> Sorry, no garage for me ;)
Nov 22 20:51:53 <timeless> that's fine
Nov 22 20:51:57 <czr> hmm. how come after logging in, I can't rate nor comment on the packages?
Nov 22 20:51:59 <timeless> i could fix the garage items if i really cared
Nov 22 20:53:22 <mgedmin> czr: are you looking at http or https pages?  afaiu rating & commenting only works via https
Nov 22 20:53:31 <czr> mgedmin, https
Nov 22 20:53:41 <czr> the whole page is missing the voting buttongs via https
Nov 22 20:53:47 <czr> via http it "kind of" shows them
Nov 22 20:53:53 <czr> but I'm not logged in then
Nov 22 20:54:07 <timeless> kaltsi: can i bug you about text errors in http://maemo.org/development/tools/ ?
Nov 22 20:54:13 <mgedmin> yay, the front page (os2007) now only lacks two screenshots: leafpad and wireless-tools
Nov 22 20:54:21 <mgedmin> any volunteers?
Nov 22 20:54:53 <timeless> mgedmin: i could get a picture from my 770 :)
Nov 22 20:55:04 <timeless> wait
Nov 22 20:55:10 <kaltsi> timeless: yes of course
Nov 22 20:55:12 <timeless> is that os2007?
Nov 22 20:55:16 <czr> mgedmin, http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/downloads.png
Nov 22 20:55:17 <mgedmin> os2006 front page lacks more screenshots
Nov 22 20:55:20 * timeless thinks mgedgmin cheated
Nov 22 20:55:24 <X-Fade> timeless: btw liked my ACID2 screenshot I made for microb?
Nov 22 20:55:24 <mgedmin> strange
Nov 22 20:55:32 <timeless> x-fade: yes!
Nov 22 20:55:40 <timeless> mgedmin: http://maemo.org/midcom-serveattachmentguid-bbc12e60993b11dc82d05163eaa8b97eb97e/original_wget-screenshot-os2006.png
Nov 22 20:55:45 <timeless> that's os2006, no?
Nov 22 20:55:56 <mgedmin> um... yes?
Nov 22 20:56:03 <timeless> but you used it on http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2007
Nov 22 20:56:15 <timeless> for osso xterm
Nov 22 20:56:18 <timeless> that's wrong :)
Nov 22 20:56:25 <mgedmin> I blame midgard
Nov 22 20:56:31 <timeless> heh
Nov 22 20:56:37 <mgedmin> I uploaded an os2006 screenshot for the os2006 version of maemo-mapper
Nov 22 20:56:47 <mgedmin> then I looked at the os2007 page of maemo mapper and saw that screenshot
Nov 22 20:56:54 <mgedmin> then I decided screenshots are os-independent
Nov 22 20:56:55 <mgedmin> so there
Nov 22 20:56:56 <_Monkey> so there is, like, no way to upgrade the flash in the 770 (memory wize...)
Nov 22 20:57:00 <timeless> vagalume has the same problem
Nov 22 20:57:04 <timeless> _monkey forget so there
Nov 22 20:57:04 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot so there
Nov 22 20:57:10 <timeless> _monkey so there is <reply>
Nov 22 20:57:11 <_Monkey> OK, timeless.
Nov 22 20:57:14 <timeless> ...
Nov 22 20:57:31 * timeless likes how vagalume is on a device that's about to run out of power :)
Nov 22 20:57:49 <timeless> didn't anyone teach you guys how to use photoshop? :)
Nov 22 20:57:54 <mgedmin> no
Nov 22 20:57:55 <timeless> or at least mspaint.exe :)
Nov 22 20:58:01 <czr> photoschmop?
Nov 22 20:58:02 <mgedmin> I had to learn gimp all by myself
Nov 22 20:58:11 <czr> what is this photoshop?
Nov 22 20:58:19 <czr> going into a shop and buying a photo>?
Nov 22 20:58:20 <timeless> czr: dunno, never used it
Nov 22 20:58:33 <timeless> but people always suggest photoshopping to make sure pictures don't look bad
Nov 22 20:58:38 <|R> last time i heard, it was at 2.0 and was a great paint replacement :P
Nov 22 20:58:39 <czr> does buying a photo on the street count as photoshopping?
Nov 22 20:58:52 <timeless> and, come on, you don't want to show off an app w/ the battery nearly dead
Nov 22 20:58:54 <czr> there's a new gimp now btw
Nov 22 20:59:00 <czr> anyhow, I can't vote
Nov 22 20:59:04 <czr> nor can I leave comments
Nov 22 20:59:07 <czr> I wanted to!
Nov 22 20:59:10 <czr> but not going to!
Nov 22 20:59:11 <X-Fade> timeless: Microb updated.
Nov 22 20:59:13 * czr sulks
Nov 22 20:59:48 <timeless> btw, the nokia thing seems to cause scrollbars to appear randomly
Nov 22 21:00:06 <timeless> or maybe that's unrelated?
Nov 22 21:00:06 * mgedmin screenshots xterm on os2007
Nov 22 21:00:17 <timeless> x-fade: look at claws mail http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2007/internet/
Nov 22 21:00:19 <czr> mgedmin, s/screenshots/photoshops/g
Nov 22 21:00:23 * mgedmin hands czr a pack of sticky notes
Nov 22 21:00:39 <czr> mgedmin, gah, I hate Notes! especially Domino ones!
Nov 22 21:00:44 * czr runs in total gaah.
Nov 22 21:01:19 <timeless> oh
Nov 22 21:01:21 <timeless> x-fade?
Nov 22 21:01:28 <timeless> the problem is that claws mail has too many votes
Nov 22 21:01:37 <timeless> you need to reduce its vote count to less than 9
Nov 22 21:01:41 <timeless> otherwise it has a scrollbar
Nov 22 21:02:28 <mgedmin> what's up with http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2006/osso-xterm-advanced/?
Nov 22 21:02:33 <mgedmin> there's a horizontal scrollbar
Nov 22 21:02:39 <mgedmin> and the homepage link is half-hidden
Nov 22 21:03:10 <timeless> x-fade: do you see that?
Nov 22 21:03:14 <czr> I think I've just had enough for tonight
Nov 22 21:03:14 <timeless> or do you need a picture?
Nov 22 21:03:17 <X-Fade> timeless: Sorry real life sometime interferes ;)
Nov 22 21:03:19 <czr> night all ->
Nov 22 21:03:56 <timeless> aww
Nov 22 21:03:58 <X-Fade> timeless: Or it should have less downloads ;)
Nov 22 21:04:15 <timeless> it'd need a lot fewer downloads
Nov 22 21:04:21 <timeless> it's easier to take away 2 votes :)
Nov 22 21:04:36 <X-Fade> Yeah, need to do a some CSS..
Nov 22 21:04:44 <timeless> ok cool
Nov 22 21:04:53 * timeless discards picture
Nov 22 21:05:07 <timeless> btw, can you fix the os200x links?
Nov 22 21:05:12 <timeless> they always take me back to the main page
Nov 22 21:05:17 <timeless> if i'm on 2007/internet
Nov 22 21:05:26 <timeless> the 2008 link should take me to 2008/internet
Nov 22 21:05:29 * mgedmin tempts fate again by editing two pages at the same time
Nov 22 21:05:33 <sp3000> hmm
Nov 22 21:05:37 * sp3000 should home and dinner
Nov 22 21:05:40 <X-Fade> timeless: breadcrumbs you mean?
Nov 22 21:05:42 <sp3000> all this verbing makes me hungry
Nov 22 21:05:55 <timeless> x-fade: not the normal breadcrumb
Nov 22 21:05:58 * czr food sp300
Nov 22 21:06:02 * mgedmin remembers to eat his dinner
Nov 22 21:06:02 <czr> and *10
Nov 22 21:06:05 <timeless> x-fade: you know how in mxr you can use a dropdown to switch trees
Nov 22 21:06:10 <timeless> it keeps the path when you do it
Nov 22 21:06:35 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/
Nov 22 21:06:37 <X-Fade> Ah, file an enhancement request ;) Wasn't in the specs ;)
Nov 22 21:06:43 <timeless> if you use the dropdown
Nov 22 21:06:45 <timeless> it'll take you to
Nov 22 21:06:49 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage-all/source/browser/
Nov 22 21:06:50 <timeless> not
Nov 22 21:06:52 <X-Fade> Or requirements..
Nov 22 21:06:58 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage-all/
Nov 22 21:07:00 <X-Fade> Yeah, I get it..
Nov 22 21:07:21 <timeless> what component?
Nov 22 21:07:23 <timeless> oih, downloads
Nov 22 21:07:47 <X-Fade> I first want to get rid of all the errors etc. Then we can start doing enhancements..
Nov 22 21:08:31 <timeless> Bug 2361 Submitted
Nov 22 21:08:31 <_Monkey> Bug 2361 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2361
Nov 22 21:09:18 <X-Fade> I'll let Quim prioritize those..
Nov 22 21:09:41 <timeless> kaltsi...
Nov 22 21:09:46 <timeless> http://maemo.org/development/tools/
Nov 22 21:10:01 <timeless>  a set of scripts to help /with/ debugging tasks.
Nov 22 21:10:12 <timeless> displays log /messages/ as banners.
Nov 22 21:10:32 <timeless>  a log message /collecting/ service.
Nov 22 21:10:44 <sp3000> mgedmin reminds me of the time when beta-testing an enrollment system at school its developers had us use their very own bug tracking system where if you view bug 1, view bug 2, edit and save bug 1 -> get bug 1 saved on bug 2
Nov 22 21:10:45 <_Monkey> Bug 2 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2
Nov 22 21:10:49 <sp3000> that was awesome
Nov 22 21:10:54 * sp3000 slaps _Monkey
Nov 22 21:11:17 <kaltsi> timeless: thanks I'll fix those once I can log in
Nov 22 21:11:22 <timeless> kaltsi: remove all the periods
Nov 22 21:11:24 <sp3000> that's an example of editing two things /actually/ biting you :D
Nov 22 21:11:31 <timeless> none of those things are sentences
Nov 22 21:11:35 <pygi> sp3000: new way of thinking ... adapt :D
Nov 22 21:11:50 <timeless> you need a new description for less
Nov 22 21:11:56 <timeless> "a file pager" is meaningless
Nov 22 21:12:12 <kaltsi> I don't know how to describe it
Nov 22 21:12:13 <timeless> screen also needs a better description
Nov 22 21:12:17 <timeless> it doesn't manage screens
Nov 22 21:12:18 <kaltsi> or that
Nov 22 21:12:30 <timeless> it provided access to detachable console/terminals (ttys)
Nov 22 21:12:35 <timeless> sharable too
Nov 22 21:12:43 <timeless> provide_s_ :(
Nov 22 21:12:55 <timeless> a command line utility to /take/ screenshots.
Nov 22 21:13:07 <doc|work> how do you do "escape" on the built in kb?
Nov 22 21:13:10 <timeless> measures the time taken to update _the_ screen after user action.
Nov 22 21:13:20 <timeless> doc: it's the funny hardware button
Nov 22 21:13:22 <timeless> not on the keyboard
Nov 22 21:13:35 <timeless> it might have a curly arrow
Nov 22 21:13:43 <doc|work> which funny one? there are loads :)
Nov 22 21:13:44 <doc|work> ah, ok
Nov 22 21:13:46 <doc|work> thanks
Nov 22 21:13:56 <timeless> an utility to read and write data across network connections
Nov 22 21:14:03 <timeless> ^ needs work. don't ask me how to fix :(
Nov 22 21:14:15 <timeless> a non-interactive network downloader.
Nov 22 21:14:17 <timeless> ^ needs work. don't ask me how to fix :(
Nov 22 21:14:22 <timeless> it doesn't download networks
Nov 22 21:14:39 <kaltsi> heh
Nov 22 21:14:41 <timeless> a user interface to -- oprofile.
Nov 22 21:14:57 <timeless> fwiw, this syntax has meaning, if you can't figure it out, ask czr :)
Nov 22 21:15:17 * czr hmms on the background
Nov 22 21:15:22 <timeless> in
Nov 22 21:15:30 <kaltsi> huh now I'm really offended.. really
Nov 22 21:15:41 <timeless> sorry :(
Nov 22 21:15:45 <czr> heh
Nov 22 21:15:50 <timeless> be happy you didn't get my rant about "loose"
Nov 22 21:15:53 <czr> kaltsi, don't be, he's like that with everyone :-)
Nov 22 21:15:55 <timeless> someone else @n did today
Nov 22 21:16:11 <czr> we can join up on him in secret
Nov 22 21:16:17 <czr> although it's not a secret anymore!
Nov 22 21:16:20 <timeless> s/join/gang/
Nov 22 21:16:24 <sp3000> heh
Nov 22 21:16:26 <kaltsi> I hate syntax errors.. and I'm embarrassed about that page as it is.. just too many things to take care of
Nov 22 21:16:26 <czr> yes!
Nov 22 21:16:28 <czr> gang up!
Nov 22 21:16:34 <czr> mob up even!
Nov 22 21:16:38 <czr> but we need more people for that
Nov 22 21:16:50 <timeless> automatize user actions under X11.
Nov 22 21:16:54 <timeless> automatize isn't a word
Nov 22 21:17:00 <timeless> automate is
Nov 22 21:17:04 <czr> automatisitize!
Nov 22 21:17:04 <kaltsi> ok
Nov 22 21:17:06 <timeless> but i don't know if you want it
Nov 22 21:17:21 <czr> is automatic a word?
Nov 22 21:17:24 <czr> automagic even
Nov 22 21:17:28 <timeless> automatic is
Nov 22 21:17:32 <timeless> automagic shoudln't be
Nov 22 21:17:36 <timeless> gah, it's late
Nov 22 21:17:37 <sp3000> pfff
Nov 22 21:17:40 <timeless> please ignore my typos P:)
Nov 22 21:18:09 <czr> automagic is hidden in the training material
Nov 22 21:18:10 <timeless> tools for manipulating linux wireless extensions.
Nov 22 21:18:14 <timeless> should that be "Linux"?
Nov 22 21:18:14 <czr> although NAO OK! is too
Nov 22 21:18:18 <czr> yes
Nov 22 21:18:31 <kaltsi> oho.. I had Linux there once.. where did it go :)
Nov 22 21:18:36 <timeless> These tools can be installed /on/ the device
Nov 22 21:18:37 <czr> and it probably should also be Wireless Extensions
Nov 22 21:18:41 <czr> as it's a defined API
Nov 22 21:18:54 <timeless> that'd require me to know that :)
Nov 22 21:18:56 <czr> kaltsi, it was scrubbed in legal :-)
Nov 22 21:19:02 * timeless is a rudimentary syntax checker
Nov 22 21:19:15 * czr is a semantic unit, without syntax checking capabilities
Nov 22 21:19:33 <czr> together, we can form the Ultimate Evil and MultiAnnoyance Engine
Nov 22 21:19:58 <czr> although that exact phrasing is probable already trademarked by Microsoft since Vista launch
Nov 22 21:20:02 <czr> hmm. let me think
Nov 22 21:20:06 <timeless> Developers can also /install/ them /on|to/ the device or in -- Scratchbox -- using ...
Nov 22 21:20:08 <czr> probably even
Nov 22 21:20:09 <timeless> that's one way
Nov 22 21:20:20 <timeless> otherwise it'd probably be The Scratchbox Environment
Nov 22 21:20:26 <timeless> or something
Nov 22 21:20:29 <doc|work> what's the standard user's password?
Nov 22 21:20:34 <timeless> null
Nov 22 21:20:37 <timeless> you can't login as it
Nov 22 21:20:47 <doc|work> timeless: I wanted to sudo
Nov 22 21:20:49 <timeless> log in [technically]
Nov 22 21:20:55 <timeless> you can't
Nov 22 21:20:57 <doc|work> and he doesn't have wheel access
Nov 22 21:21:04 <timeless> ssh root@localhost
Nov 22 21:21:05 <_Monkey> ssh root@localhost is the way I'm using it on n800
Nov 22 21:21:05 <timeless> rootme
Nov 22 21:21:06 <_Monkey> rootme is the default pw?
Nov 22 21:21:10 <doc|work> ah, ok, thanks
Nov 22 21:21:18 <timeless> good bot
Nov 22 21:21:20 <czr> doc|home, enable r&r mode on the device, login as root, then use : passwd user  to set the password
Nov 22 21:21:31 <czr> if you then need root, use sudo gainroot to get it (from user)
Nov 22 21:21:33 <timeless> r&d?
Nov 22 21:21:41 <czr> Rage & Dangerful
Nov 22 21:21:48 <timeless> you said r&r
Nov 22 21:21:48 <czr> (research & development)
Nov 22 21:21:55 <czr> oh, heh..
Nov 22 21:21:55 <czr> :-)
Nov 22 21:22:02 <czr> rest & recreation mode :-)
Nov 22 21:22:07 <timeless> To activate the sdk repository with the Application Manager, create a new catalogue like this:
Nov 22 21:22:20 <timeless> kaltsi: you might want to explain how to get to whereever there is
Nov 22 21:22:21 <czr> timeless, Application _m_anager!
Nov 22 21:22:22 <doc|work> arse, need to install ssh client :/
Nov 22 21:22:25 <timeless> you kinda skipped that step
Nov 22 21:22:26 <doc|work> er, server
Nov 22 21:22:31 <timeless> oh, and what czr said!
Nov 22 21:22:41 <timeless> also, if your target audience is en-US not en-GB
Nov 22 21:22:47 <timeless> then /catalog/
Nov 22 21:23:04 <kaltsi> hey my locale was en-UK :)
Nov 22 21:23:11 <timeless> i'm sure it was
Nov 22 21:23:12 <czr> kaltsi, _was_ indeed.
Nov 22 21:23:14 <timeless> i don't care :)
Nov 22 21:23:17 <kaltsi> is
Nov 22 21:23:26 <czr> <jedi>_was_</jedi>
Nov 22 21:23:31 <kaltsi> iiss
Nov 22 21:23:45 <timeless> Note!: To have these tools visible in the /Application/ manager, you need to have the Red Pill Mode activated
Nov 22 21:23:49 <czr> damn. the force is strong in this one.
Nov 22 21:23:50 <kaltsi> bantha bodo
Nov 22 21:23:53 <timeless> note that while manager should be lowercase
Nov 22 21:23:57 <timeless> Application shouldn't be :)
Nov 22 21:24:10 <czr> yes. the sw is called "Application manager".
Nov 22 21:24:14 <doc|work> any eta on os2008 for us n800 plebs? :)
Nov 22 21:24:15 <timeless> 0 for 2 and 1 penalty for inconsistency
Nov 22 21:24:15 <kaltsi> hm hm aha
Nov 22 21:24:35 <czr> please don't use other forms. especially Application Installer, Application installer, application installer nor Application Manager.
Nov 22 21:24:53 <czr> doc|work, december
Nov 22 21:24:54 <timeless> nor application mnaager
Nov 22 21:25:02 <czr> not application mnaager either
Nov 22 21:25:07 <timeless> even spelled correctly, it's still wrong :)
Nov 22 21:25:11 <kaltsi> how about Stuff gizmo
Nov 22 21:25:24 <timeless> never say 'stuff' in technical writing :)
Nov 22 21:25:27 <timeless> ask czr :)
Nov 22 21:25:36 <czr> say "crap" or "things" or "shit"
Nov 22 21:25:43 <czr> much easier to understand :-)
Nov 22 21:25:43 <kaltsi> with stuff I mean the people who work for me
Nov 22 21:25:46 <timeless> one of those three are ok
Nov 22 21:26:09 <timeless> hrm, one of those three /is/ ok :(
Nov 22 21:26:13 <czr> kaltsi, staff?
Nov 22 21:26:24 <kaltsi> <phb>stuff</pfb>
Nov 22 21:26:29 <timeless> /To install/ a binary package in scratchbox:
Nov 22 21:26:31 <czr> XML ERROR!
Nov 22 21:26:35 <kaltsi> oops
Nov 22 21:26:50 <czr> Scratchbox
Nov 22 21:26:51 <_Monkey> well, Scratchbox is a cross-compilation toolkit for maemo application development.  Homepage: http://www.scratchbox.org/   Maemo 3.x (bora/N800) tutorial: http://qurl.org/yN  Maemo 2.2 (gregale/770) tutorial: http://qurl.org/zN  A walkthrough for 3.x: http://qurl.org/0O  Scratchbox Downloads: http://qurl.org/1O
Nov 22 21:26:51 <doc|work> I'm assuming it's safe to change the root passwd, right?
Nov 22 21:27:17 <czr> doc|work, with passwd, yes. and you should do it too.
Nov 22 21:27:17 <X-Fade> doc|work: Sure, you can always re-flash ;)
Nov 22 21:27:32 <doc|work> czr: thanks
Nov 22 21:27:35 <doc|work> X-Fade: heh
Nov 22 21:27:44 <timeless> kaltsi: that's a global change at the bottom (3 times)
Nov 22 21:27:49 <kaltsi> yep, noticed
Nov 22 21:28:15 <timeless> doc: keep in mind that the device lock won't be reset
Nov 22 21:28:19 <timeless> so don't forget it :)
Nov 22 21:28:23 <timeless> (read the manual)
Nov 22 21:28:33 <czr> (and file bug reports)
Nov 22 21:28:55 <X-Fade> Ok, I'm go call it a day. Way too much spare time spend here today :)
Nov 22 21:28:58 <timeless> kaltsi: why don't you link to bugs.maemo.org instead of the useless English feedback note at the bottom?
Nov 22 21:29:03 <timeless> spent?
Nov 22 21:29:08 <czr> kaltsi, what exactly did timeless force you to fix now?
Nov 22 21:29:21 <X-Fade> timeless: That too..
Nov 22 21:29:22 <timeless> http://maemo.org/development/tools/
Nov 22 21:29:31 <kaltsi> timeless: why indeed
Nov 22 21:29:47 <doc|work> timeless: yep, is different anyway :)
Nov 22 21:29:48 <timeless> especially since you did at the top...
Nov 22 21:29:54 <czr> heh
Nov 22 21:29:57 <doc|work> hmmm, does maemo ignore the hosts file?
Nov 22 21:30:15 <czr> I like the difference in nano and vi: "   a friendly text editor." vs "  a text editor."
Nov 22 21:30:21 <kaltsi> well if someone wants to say hello then I don't want him to do it through the bugzilla
Nov 22 21:30:34 <timeless> suggest irc :)
Nov 22 21:30:55 <czr> "  a user interface to the oprofile." -> "a user interface to OProfile"
Nov 22 21:31:10 <czr> latter being the proper name of the sw
Nov 22 21:31:13 <kaltsi> I hate OProfile.. and especially OProfileUI
Nov 22 21:31:17 <timeless> yeah, czr would be the one to catch the case for things like that
Nov 22 21:31:19 <kaltsi> the capitalization
Nov 22 21:31:40 <czr> kaltsi, you can blame the damn yankees for winning the cold war!
Nov 22 21:31:44 <timeless> btw
Nov 22 21:31:52 <kaltsi> they didn't win.. the SU just quit :)
Nov 22 21:31:54 <timeless> shows X /clients'/ X resource usage.
Nov 22 21:31:54 <czr> otherwise we'd all be using EQUAL_RIGHTS_LETTER_SIZE_SYSTEM
Nov 22 21:31:57 <timeless> note that change :)
Nov 22 21:32:13 <timeless> i could be wrong, but i doubt it :)
Nov 22 21:32:15 <kaltsi> timeless: right.. more than one
Nov 22 21:32:20 <czr> kaltsi, yeah, I know a thing or two about that.. was born there after all :-)
Nov 22 21:32:31 <kaltsi> hehe :)
Nov 22 21:32:39 * czr is waiting for his 47th birthday
Nov 22 21:32:50 <kaltsi> eek
Nov 22 21:32:55 <czr> AK-47
Nov 22 21:33:04 <czr> indeed. kitsch and all, but still.
Nov 22 21:33:05 * timeless is a young wipper snapper
Nov 22 21:33:11 <timeless> oh right
Nov 22 21:33:14 <timeless> so, quick survey
Nov 22 21:33:19 <czr> oh, I still have a fair distance to go until 47 :-)
Nov 22 21:33:23 <timeless> what's the name of the os that runs on your n800?
Nov 22 21:33:37 <czr> IT OS2008
Nov 22 21:33:45 <timeless> /msg appreciated :)
Nov 22 21:33:48 <lopz> bye
Nov 22 21:33:49 * timeless doesn't want to bias people :(
Nov 22 21:33:59 <czr> timeless, you want to have more specific one or that one?
Nov 22 21:34:09 <timeless> ok, so, in bugs.maemo.org we use ITOS or something like that
Nov 22 21:34:14 <czr> I'd really like to call it GNU/Linux with a lot of proprietary crap on top, but I can't, can I.
Nov 22 21:34:26 <timeless> bugzilla.mozilla.org wants to add an OS value for the nokia devices
Nov 22 21:34:32 <timeless> the question is, what should it say?
Nov 22 21:34:41 <timeless> i can give you one thing it should *not* say :)
Nov 22 21:34:44 <czr> OS2006/OS2007/OS2007
Nov 22 21:34:58 <czr> +1
Nov 22 21:35:06 <timeless> OS2005? :)
Nov 22 21:35:19 <kaltsi> czr OS2007/OS2007/OS2007 ?
Nov 22 21:35:20 <timeless> anyway, what should it say?
Nov 22 21:35:31 <mgedmin> Maemo?
Nov 22 21:35:32 <_Monkey> rumour has it Maemo is a development platform to create applications for the Nokia N800 and N810 Internet Tablets. http://www.maemo.org/
Nov 22 21:35:35 <czr> kaltsi, yes, you sir, are the first one to get the prize :-)
Nov 22 21:35:37 <mgedmin> Nokia Internet Tablet?
Nov 22 21:35:40 <kaltsi> wohoo!
Nov 22 21:35:51 <doc|work> boobies?
Nov 22 21:35:57 <doc|work> boring bot
Nov 22 21:35:58 <kaltsi> url?
Nov 22 21:36:00 * czr spanks kaltsi with three salmons. 2.1 surround style
Nov 22 21:36:13 <timeless> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/query.cgi
Nov 22 21:36:15 <timeless> kinda works
Nov 22 21:36:17 <timeless> i suppose
Nov 22 21:36:26 <czr> timeless, do you have a point to your question? :-)
Nov 22 21:36:36 <doc|work> so, anyone know if maemo ignore the hosts file?
Nov 22 21:36:36 <timeless> czr: i need a suggestion to replace the bug you see there
Nov 22 21:36:42 * czr peeks
Nov 22 21:37:04 <timeless> doc: there's some explanation of that floating aroudn
Nov 22 21:37:09 <timeless> but iirc the short answer was yes :)
Nov 22 21:37:09 <czr> hmm. I don't see any bugs at that URL
Nov 22 21:37:19 <timeless> czr: browse through the os list
Nov 22 21:37:24 <timeless> it's a query field :)
Nov 22 21:37:35 <czr> hmm. advanced search?
Nov 22 21:37:39 <doc|work> timeless: well that's useful :|
Nov 22 21:37:43 <timeless> oh brother
Nov 22 21:37:45 <timeless> yes  sorry
Nov 22 21:37:51 <|R> Linux Maemo ?
Nov 22 21:37:51 <czr> np.
Nov 22 21:37:52 <timeless> 405005
Nov 22 21:37:54 <doc|work> (the idea, not your help, thanks for that)
Nov 22 21:37:58 <timeless> |r: right
Nov 22 21:38:52 <czr> Linux Maemo is not a valid OS string
Nov 22 21:39:02 <czr> it doesn't even obey the trademark guidelines
Nov 22 21:39:13 <timeless> czr: 405005 is the bug :)
Nov 22 21:39:17 <czr> and it's not even an OS for ${DEITY}s sake
Nov 22 21:39:28 <timeless> but i don't have a real suggestion
Nov 22 21:39:52 <timeless> as i said, i know one thing it should not say :)
Nov 22 21:40:08 <czr> it depends on what you really want to use the OS for
Nov 22 21:40:14 <czr> is it maemo specific
Nov 22 21:40:17 <czr> or is it IS OT specific
Nov 22 21:40:24 <czr> I guess maemo would make more sense, right?
Nov 22 21:40:26 <mgedmin800> say "cheese" for the screenshot!
Nov 22 21:40:32 <timeless> cheese
Nov 22 21:40:32 <czr> CHEEZE
Nov 22 21:40:32 <|R> fromage!
Nov 22 21:40:32 <doc|work> :D
Nov 22 21:40:38 <czr> damn you |R
Nov 22 21:40:41 <|R> haha
Nov 22 21:40:48 <timeless> no cursing!
Nov 22 21:40:50 <kaltsi> juusto :)
Nov 22 21:40:52 <czr> although I liked french food a lot, no offence
Nov 22 21:40:56 <czr> offense even
Nov 22 21:41:00 <czr> syir!
Nov 22 21:41:15 <czr> latin alphabet sucks
Nov 22 21:41:50 <czr> timeless, what about a temporary solution: Linux (maemo)
Nov 22 21:42:11 <timeless> uh..
Nov 22 21:42:15 <kaltsi> timeless: ok thanks for the syntax checking, I appreciate it! I'll fix the page tomorrow if the gods of login allow.
Nov 22 21:42:16 <czr> that doesn't violate the trademark, and makes it clear that it is not a completely separate entity from Linux
Nov 22 21:42:34 <timeless> my main objection is that people tend to save queries and links
Nov 22 21:42:42 <timeless> which means that things are likely to last
Nov 22 21:42:49 <timeless> so i'd like to get the right answer picked asap
Nov 22 21:42:57 <timeless> and not have too many transitions, as each one breaks queries
Nov 22 21:42:57 <czr> there's no right answer
Nov 22 21:43:02 <czr> plan for changes
Nov 22 21:43:06 <czr> that's the only thing you can do
Nov 22 21:43:10 <kaltsi> maemo Chinook Linux 4
Nov 22 21:43:13 <czr> no
Nov 22 21:43:17 <timeless> no :)
Nov 22 21:43:23 <kaltsi> Chimeo Linook 4
Nov 22 21:43:27 <czr> haha
Nov 22 21:43:32 <doc|work> untitled
Nov 22 21:43:37 <czr> now that I'd vote for
Nov 22 21:43:38 <timeless> <unnamed> ?
Nov 22 21:43:54 <kaltsi> <vote bush>
Nov 22 21:43:54 <timeless> when i installed bomberman, that's what its info dialog said :)
Nov 22 21:43:55 <czr> "whatever crap is running on the so called Internet Tables from Ikea"
Nov 22 21:44:08 <timeless> czr: close enough :)
Nov 22 21:44:10 <doc|work> I want to start a band called untitled. We'd instantly be the most prolific band ever
Nov 22 21:44:19 * doc|work eyes kaltsi 
Nov 22 21:44:26 <|R> haha
Nov 22 21:44:28 <kaltsi> :)
Nov 22 21:44:43 <mgedmin> I suspect "Nokia Internet Tablet" would be clearest to a J. Random Person on the street
Nov 22 21:44:52 <mgedmin> but those don't use bugzilla
Nov 22 21:44:55 <timeless> that's long, but not an OS
Nov 22 21:45:03 <timeless> two minuses :)
Nov 22 21:45:10 <timeless> Nokia Internet Tablet OS
Nov 22 21:45:11 <mgedmin> "Nokia Internet Tablet OS" was long, so I shortened it :)
Nov 22 21:45:18 <timeless> would be ok, and is probably not too bad
Nov 22 21:45:31 <timeless> how long is the Windows Mobile 6 Professional item?
Nov 22 21:45:33 <czr> Nokia IT OS?
Nov 22 21:45:36 <timeless> Windows Mobile 6 Professional
Nov 22 21:45:43 <doc|work> Nookie OS
Nov 22 21:45:47 <timeless> hey, it's shorter than the wm6p item
Nov 22 21:45:52 <mgedmin> IT means Information Technology everywhere but here
Nov 22 21:45:53 <timeless> so i guess it's fine
Nov 22 21:45:58 <czr> doc|work, my spellchecker suggests Nookie for Nokia btw
Nov 22 21:46:04 <doc|work> czr: hahaha
Nov 22 21:46:06 <czr> amongst other things
Nov 22 21:46:08 <timeless> czr: nice
Nov 22 21:46:17 <doc|work> many things suggest nookie :/
Nov 22 21:46:19 * czr hugs ispell for all the semantic connotations
Nov 22 21:46:43 <timeless> Cahokia, Nonskid, Novelia, Norina
Nov 22 21:46:55 <timeless> that's what minefield suggests :)
Nov 22 21:46:55 <czr> Chokia
Nov 22 21:47:07 <doc|work> hahaha
Nov 22 21:47:12 <czr> would be apt at so many levels.
Nov 22 21:47:33 <czr> NorwegiaNookSO
Nov 22 21:47:39 <doc|work> they're made in china
Nov 22 21:47:40 <timeless> kaltsi: thanks for accepting feedback :)
Nov 22 21:47:41 <czr> "not quite, but close"
Nov 22 21:47:49 <kaltsi> my OS was 0nce bitten by a llama
Nov 22 21:47:54 <czr> kaltsi, I can check it too if you want to
Nov 22 21:47:57 <doc|work> er, or korea, with parts from china
Nov 22 21:48:02 <czr> but I'm more of a technical person
Nov 22 21:48:07 <czr> suck at English
Nov 22 21:48:32 <czr> timeless, you really have to decide btw?
Nov 22 21:48:35 <czr> on the OS name?
Nov 22 21:48:37 <doc|work> btw, are there larger capacity batteries available?
Nov 22 21:48:40 <kaltsi> czr sure but could you wait until I fix timeless' list.. it's a lot of fixes :)
Nov 22 21:48:41 <timeless> czr: yes
Nov 22 21:48:54 <czr> kaltsi, yell me when you're done, I'll take a quick looksee after that
Nov 22 21:48:58 <timeless> doc: no
Nov 22 21:49:05 <timeless> but there's this external battery thingy
Nov 22 21:49:06 <czr> timeless, I'd suggest you steer away from using Nokia
Nov 22 21:49:07 <timeless> someone found
Nov 22 21:49:11 <kaltsi> czr ok.. that'll be tomorrow then
Nov 22 21:49:19 <czr> timeless, unless you want to amend your trademark usage statement on mozilla.org
Nov 22 21:49:19 <timeless> czr: can you comment yourself? :(
Nov 22 21:49:38 <czr> why would I comment myself? :-)
Nov 22 21:49:40 <timeless> do we not have a disclaimer "some items may be trademarks of other owners"?
Nov 22 21:50:05 <czr> well.. then you must not be the person who makes/suggests the name :-)
Nov 22 21:50:16 <mgedmin> haha, osso-screenshot-tool --help creates a file named '--help'
Nov 22 21:50:23 <kaltsi> heh
Nov 22 21:50:25 <timeless> czr: i'm responsible for us fixing Open Solaris
Nov 22 21:50:30 <czr> mgedmin, what did you expect, n00b! ? :-)
Nov 22 21:50:33 <timeless> mgedmin: that's ok, we fixed that
Nov 22 21:50:38 <timeless> osso-screenshot-tool no longer exists
Nov 22 21:50:50 <czr> timeless, heh. ok, I guess if you're comfortable with that, I'm ok
Nov 22 21:50:58 <mgedmin> timeless: what replaced it?
Nov 22 21:51:03 <timeless> screenshot-tool :)
Nov 22 21:51:05 <kaltsi> oh crap that same bug is in screenshot-tool, I'll fix that tomorrow
Nov 22 21:51:09 <czr> timeless, Nokia maemo | or | Nokia IT OS
Nov 22 21:51:16 <czr> or Nokia Internet Tablet OS
Nov 22 21:51:17 <mgedmin> that's probably in chinook?
Nov 22 21:51:23 <timeless> yes
Nov 22 21:51:34 <czr> one of those three. which ever you think would be most appropriate to the product you're bugging
Nov 22 21:51:48 <czr> timeless, microb is oss, right?
Nov 22 21:51:50 <timeless> mgedmin: http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/find?string=screenshot.*debian/control
Nov 22 21:51:53 <timeless> czr: yes
Nov 22 21:51:57 <czr> timeless, and this is about microb, right?
Nov 22 21:51:58 <timeless> czr: the ui isn't :)
Nov 22 21:52:06 <czr> but bugzilla.mozilla-wise
Nov 22 21:52:07 <timeless> czr: essentially
Nov 22 21:52:11 <timeless> yes
Nov 22 21:52:18 <czr> timeless, right. so then, I'd suggest to go with Nokia maemo
Nov 22 21:52:18 <kaltsi> mgedmin: I'll fix that in screenshot-tool tomorrow... can't believe I didn't test that O_o
Nov 22 21:52:26 <mgedmin> thanks!
Nov 22 21:52:41 <czr> timeless, since that is not boud to any physical device. anyone can install micron on the sdk, (at least at some point), right?
Nov 22 21:52:51 <czr> timeless, and that way it keeps clear from N IT legal
Nov 22 21:53:04 <timeless> czr: you can use TestGtkEmbed yes
Nov 22 21:53:08 <czr> I see maemo as much more fair game for OSS participation compared to IT
Nov 22 21:53:13 <timeless> but that won't give you microb
Nov 22 21:53:14 <doc|work> timeless: got a link to that battery thing?
Nov 22 21:53:24 <timeless> doc: um, try thoughtfix
Nov 22 21:53:27 <timeless> that's usually the right answer
Nov 22 21:53:28 <czr> timeless, hmm. so there's no easy way to test microb in SDK?
Nov 22 21:53:32 <timeless> (might be wrong in this case)
Nov 22 21:54:07 <doc|work> timeless: thanks
Nov 22 21:55:47 * mgedmin imagines the poor pigeons that carry the internet packets to and from maemo.org
Nov 22 22:02:01 <mgedmin> the comment facility could really use a 'preview' button
Nov 22 22:02:14 <mgedmin> how was I supposed to know it didn't escape '<'>
Nov 22 22:02:34 <timeless> heh
Nov 22 22:03:05 <mgedmin> omg, ( ! ) Fatal error: Call to undefined function mgderrstr() in /usr/share/midgard/svn/midcom/trunk/src/net.nehmer.co
Nov 22 22:03:24 <doc|work> would it be a really evil question to ask if there's a working nfs client for maemo? :o
Nov 22 22:03:46 <timeless> maemo.org/community/wiki/howtonfs_06/
Nov 22 22:03:59 <czr> need for speed 06
Nov 22 22:04:05 * czr hides & drives away
Nov 22 22:04:08 <doc|work> thanks :)
Nov 22 22:04:58 <doc|work> would mean less screwing about with sd cards for one
Nov 22 22:05:29 <mgedmin> doc|work: there was once, iirc
Nov 22 22:05:32 <timeless> czr?
Nov 22 22:05:40 <mgedmin> you had to flash a custom kernel for nfs support, etc
Nov 22 22:05:47 <mgedmin> early in the 770 days
Nov 22 22:05:48 <timeless> is it ITOS2007, IT OS 2007, IT OS2007, ITOS 2007, or something else?
Nov 22 22:05:54 <mgedmin> I use sshfs nowadays
Nov 22 22:06:09 <mgedmin> better than mucking about with sd cards or usb cables
Nov 22 22:06:15 <timeless> nfs is only good if for kicks, giggles, and stuck mounts
Nov 22 22:06:25 <timeless> nfs?
Nov 22 22:06:26 <_Monkey> well, nfs is so much better
Nov 22 22:06:28 <doc|work> mgedmin: that howto looks like it should work
Nov 22 22:06:35 <timeless> _monkey forget nfs
Nov 22 22:06:35 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot nfs
Nov 22 22:06:40 <timeless> nfs is only good if for kicks, giggles, and stuck mounts
Nov 22 22:06:53 <timeless> nfs is not so much better :)
Nov 22 22:07:46 <timeless> doc: feel free to edit the wiki to fix "Application manager" (capital A, lowercase m) on http://maemo.org/community/wiki/settingupnfs/ :)
Nov 22 22:07:50 <czr> timeless, nack
Nov 22 22:07:53 <czr> back even
Nov 22 22:08:17 <p|> <mgedmin> I use sshfs nowadays
Nov 22 22:08:18 <p|> ?
Nov 22 22:08:25 <p|> does it work on n800 ?
Nov 22 22:08:31 <mgedmin> depends on what you mean
Nov 22 22:08:47 <mgedmin> I use sshfs on my laptop to connect to the ssh server on my n800
Nov 22 22:09:02 <mgedmin> and then I can use whatever file manager I like to transfer files back and forth
Nov 22 22:09:13 <p|> ha ok :)
Nov 22 22:09:24 <doc|work> timeless: I would if I didn't have to register :)
Nov 22 22:09:30 <p|> i'd like to have also encfs... :)
Nov 22 22:09:45 <doc|work> it'd be easy, copy to text editor, replace all, save. But the registration process? blegh :)
Nov 22 22:10:04 <timeless> doc: i think atm you can't even log in
Nov 22 22:10:07 <mgedmin> quake 2 runs on n800??
Nov 22 22:10:10 * mgedmin didn't expect that
Nov 22 22:10:11 <timeless> but you have my sympathies
Nov 22 22:10:16 <doc|work> timeless: heh, nice
Nov 22 22:10:48 <timeless> technically the code can be built to run elsewhere (we have ifdefs to deal w/ !hildon)
Nov 22 22:11:06 <timeless> and there are people who have built it on something that wasn't maemo
Nov 22 22:11:12 <timeless> otoh, i'm not sure i care
Nov 22 22:11:19 <timeless> they were still an embedded system
Nov 22 22:11:39 <timeless> and i see little reason to lump them away from us w/ Linux
Nov 22 22:12:08 <timeless> gah, and i see no reason to lump us away from linux, but that's another story
Nov 22 22:14:03 <mgedmin> what's up with this URL: http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2007/games/?org_openpsa_qbpager_org_openpsa_products_product_dba_page=4 ?
Nov 22 22:14:13 <mgedmin> org_openpsa_qbpager_org_openpsa_products_product_dba_page?
Nov 22 22:14:28 <doc|work> heh
Nov 22 22:14:31 <kaltsi> one thing.. it's a bit short
Nov 22 22:14:35 <mgedmin> is midgard written in Java, or something?
Nov 22 22:14:49 <timeless> php, no?
Nov 22 22:14:53 <doc|work> kaltsi: heh
Nov 22 22:14:56 <timeless> which has the same sort of stack tracings
Nov 22 22:15:03 <mgedmin> but anyway I wanted to ask: why is ScummVM listed twice on that page (once near the top, second time at the end)
Nov 22 22:15:06 <czr> mgedmin, if you run into performance issues, I'd suggest you collect URLs and timestamps and such
Nov 22 22:15:18 <czr> mgedmin, then add them to the bug whose number I forgot
Nov 22 22:15:29 <czr> kulve closed it already
Nov 22 22:15:42 <czr> but I think that'd be the best place to add information
Nov 22 22:16:17 <timeless> oh wow
Nov 22 22:16:22 * timeless likes the nfs instructions for 2007
Nov 22 22:16:27 <timeless> they manually install nfs :)
Nov 22 22:16:30 <czr> link?
Nov 22 22:16:38 <timeless> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/settingupnfs/#3aa70fb4ecdace0c1b0ceec114d4da54
Nov 22 22:16:42 * czr wants to chuckle as well
Nov 22 22:16:50 <sp3000> heh, you said 3aa70fb4ecdace0c1b0ceec114d4da54
Nov 22 22:16:51 <czr> eww, md5 hashes in URLs. evil
Nov 22 22:17:06 <timeless> aren't md5 hashes shorter?
Nov 22 22:17:16 <czr> I don't think so
Nov 22 22:17:20 <czr> but I'm drunk..
Nov 22 22:17:23 <mgedmin> shorter than what?
Nov 22 22:17:31 <czr> than 16 characters
Nov 22 22:17:42 <czr> hmm. that's longer that 16 characters
Nov 22 22:17:46 <czr> than even
Nov 22 22:17:49 <sp3000> nah, that's md5sum size
Nov 22 22:18:05 <czr> 32 chars. md5
Nov 22 22:18:18 <mgedmin> 128 bits, iirc
Nov 22 22:18:20 <sp3000> 16 bytes, of course :)
Nov 22 22:18:24 <timeless> Nokia-N800-26:~/nfstmp# cd /lib/modules/current/
Nov 22 22:18:25 <timeless> Nokia-N800-26:~/nfstmp# ls -l
Nov 22 22:18:26 <sp3000> which could confuse
Nov 22 22:18:34 <timeless> what kind of magical shell is this?
Nov 22 22:18:37 <sp3000> heh
Nov 22 22:19:24 <kaltsi> hahah.. that's my baby :)
Nov 22 22:19:24 <czr> there's no lib/modules on the devices
Nov 22 22:19:29 * czr pities the fools
Nov 22 22:19:52 <kaltsi> there is /lib/modules after you install the modules
Nov 22 22:20:01 <czr> that doesn't count!
Nov 22 22:20:08 <czr> that's like.. cheating!
Nov 22 22:20:31 <flatface> Okay, my N800 just arrived today and I'm setting it up. I'm new to Maemo and all of this (but not Linux), so should I start messing with it and wait for 2008, or find and install 2008 now?
Nov 22 22:20:31 <czr> "there's /lib/modules after you run mkdir /lib/modulers. har"-kind of cheating!
Nov 22 22:20:50 <timeless> Nokia-N800-26:~# apt-get install rx-34-kernel-nfs-modules
Nov 22 22:20:53 <czr> flatface, there's no OS2008 for N800
Nov 22 22:20:55 <timeless> czr: like that?
Nov 22 22:21:04 <pygi> flatface: not yet :)
Nov 22 22:21:11 <czr> timeless, that also is cheating!
Nov 22 22:21:12 <flatface> I've read that you can use 2008 from the N810 firmware.
Nov 22 22:21:20 <czr> anything that will create /lib/modules = cheating.. :-)
Nov 22 22:21:27 <kaltsi> sour grapes..
Nov 22 22:21:30 <timeless> flatface: either way you're going to need to reinstall everything in a few weeks
Nov 22 22:21:37 <czr> flatface, you can. but it doesn't mean that the firmware is meant for N800.
Nov 22 22:21:40 <timeless> where few is something between 1 and 100
Nov 22 22:21:46 <timeless> conservatively :)
Nov 22 22:21:54 <timeless> personally, i'd probably go w/ 2008
Nov 22 22:21:58 <kaltsi> don't reveal the release dates like that
Nov 22 22:22:00 <flatface> Eh, true enough. I may as well fool around with it now :D
Nov 22 22:22:13 <timeless> kaltsi: 100 weeks takes me to when?
Nov 22 22:22:14 <kaltsi> 1-100 weeks is too accurate :)
Nov 22 22:22:16 <czr> kaltsi, 1-100 is pretty ok in my books :-)
Nov 22 22:22:27 <czr> and how's going to trust timeless anyway!
Nov 22 22:22:31 <czr> who's even.
Nov 22 22:22:34 <kaltsi> how who?
Nov 22 22:22:40 <czr> my typing is getting progressively worse :-)
Nov 22 22:23:07 <timeless> flatface: i'd enable redpill and ask Application manager to save all debs to an mmc
Nov 22 22:23:13 <flatface> btw, just some general info: if you don't want to order it off of the Internet or anything, Ingram Micro is able to ship it. From Staples, it cost me $276.28 to special order it, no shipping cost. (CAD)
Nov 22 22:23:20 <timeless> otherwise i tend to be very frustrated when things i've installed disappear
Nov 22 22:23:26 <flatface> timeless: debs, as in .DEB (debian package format)?
Nov 22 22:23:31 <timeless> yes
Nov 22 22:23:34 <flatface> roger
Nov 22 22:23:43 <czr> debit evil bastards
Nov 22 22:24:39 <timeless> flatface: of course, as a nokian, i would never recommend that you do this :)
Nov 22 22:24:48 <czr> timeless, nokeneeze
Nov 22 22:24:54 <flatface> heh
Nov 22 22:24:58 <timeless> and as someone who has reported about at least one really bad ui facing bugs in 2008
Nov 22 22:25:03 <kaltsi> hmm the Application manageR has a small inconsistency with its graphics.. the menu icon and the TN icon have a + in the up-left corner but when the app man opens up there's a graphic with a tilted square in place of the +
Nov 22 22:25:03 <timeless> especially for n800 users
Nov 22 22:25:07 <timeless> i wouldn't really want to install it
Nov 22 22:25:18 <flatface> I own an E62... I'm disappointed at the speed of it, but from what I hear, it's not the best Nokia device. So I'm giving them another shot.
Nov 22 22:25:30 <czr> kaltsi, let me check. SDK or dev?
Nov 22 22:25:37 <kaltsi> both
Nov 22 22:25:38 <timeless> kaltsi: ain't visual refreshes grand?
Nov 22 22:25:45 <timeless> someone forgot to refresh the inner artt
Nov 22 22:25:45 <kaltsi> it's hard to miss :)
Nov 22 22:25:48 <flatface> I think I'm gonna end up waiting for the real deal to come out
Nov 22 22:25:56 <timeless> there clearly wasn't a note saying "this is related to art elsewhere"
Nov 22 22:26:15 <timeless> flatface: it's mostly ok unless you try using the finger keyboard :)
Nov 22 22:26:20 <czr> kaltsi, you mean the large "image" when Am starts isn't the same as the icon?
Nov 22 22:26:24 <kaltsi> yes
Nov 22 22:26:28 <timeless> czr: yeah
Nov 22 22:26:32 <czr> kaltsi, the icon also has an image of an CD for ..
Nov 22 22:26:33 <timeless> kaltsi: file a bug :)
Nov 22 22:26:48 <czr> how on earth does a CD relate to IT?
Nov 22 22:26:53 <kaltsi> czr CD where?
Nov 22 22:27:00 <czr> give me a sec
Nov 22 22:27:04 <timeless> czr: what cd?
Nov 22 22:27:08 <czr> I'll amaze you with another screenshot
Nov 22 22:27:18 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/screenshot-tool-1.21/screenshot-tool.c
Nov 22 22:27:23 <timeless> definitely doesn't handle help :)
Nov 22 22:27:31 <timeless> but if you don't include any args, it gives help :)
Nov 22 22:27:34 <kaltsi> timeless I just fixed it.. releasing tomorrow :)
Nov 22 22:27:41 <timeless> kaltsi: yeah yeah
Nov 22 22:27:45 <doc|work> flatface: not bad, I got mine for 264 from ncix.com with a pricematch against directcanada.com (pickup so no delivery)
Nov 22 22:27:50 <timeless> but that was in my window and i forgot to paste it
Nov 22 22:27:52 <doc|work> (+ taxes of course)
Nov 22 22:27:55 * doc|work spits
Nov 22 22:27:59 <czr> timeless, kaltsi : http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/amazing-cd.png
Nov 22 22:28:07 <czr> notice the discrepancy there?
Nov 22 22:28:08 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/hildon-application-manager-2.0.1/
Nov 22 22:28:30 <kaltsi> czr ahh that's just in the sdk
Nov 22 22:28:32 <mgedmin> timeless: how non-unixish; I'd expect a screenshot tool to spew binary data to stdout when run without args ;-)
Nov 22 22:28:35 <timeless> czr: i think tha'ts non branded
Nov 22 22:28:41 <czr> kaltsi, but you said BOTH
Nov 22 22:28:43 <czr> damn..
Nov 22 22:28:44 <_Monkey> damn is a very sad thing to say
Nov 22 22:28:45 <timeless> mgedmin: not true
Nov 22 22:28:55 <kaltsi> czr and I want to retract my previous statement.. I didn't check the sdk graphics.. just assumed they were same.. shame on me! :(
Nov 22 22:28:58 <timeless> timeless@swift:/tmp/microb-l10n% /sbin/zfs
Nov 22 22:28:59 <timeless> missing command
Nov 22 22:28:59 <timeless> usage: zfs command args ...
Nov 22 22:28:59 <timeless> where 'command' is one of the following:
Nov 22 22:29:00 <timeless> --
Nov 22 22:29:15 <timeless> on solaris, i get detailed usage instructions
Nov 22 22:29:16 <flatface> doc|work: That's pretty good. I work at Staples, so I was able to sweet talk my GM into giving me a credit for my Palm TX (broken scren), plus I got a 10% associate discount.
Nov 22 22:29:17 * czr spanks kaltsi with stereo-trouts
Nov 22 22:29:28 <kaltsi> boo.. I don't even like fish :(
Nov 22 22:29:30 <timeless> timeless@swift:/tmp/microb-l10n% /sbin/zfs 2>&1|wc -l
Nov 22 22:29:30 <timeless>       44
Nov 22 22:29:50 <czr> kaltsi, yeah, the SDK graphics are quite different
Nov 22 22:29:54 * czr notices the problem now
Nov 22 22:30:07 <doc|work> flatface: nice! :)
Nov 22 22:30:45 <flatface> Oh, man... I'm at the main menu... Default skin and high resolution = sexy as hell
Nov 22 22:31:03 <flatface> I'm enjoying it already.
Nov 22 22:31:18 <czr> hell isn't sexy
Nov 22 22:31:24 <czr> hell = hot + blisters.
Nov 22 22:31:36 <czr> so mainly sweat and pain
Nov 22 22:32:07 <mgedmin> unless it froze over
Nov 22 22:32:40 <flatface> Maybe a succubus from Hell?
Nov 22 22:32:53 <czr> mgedmin, that'd mean that a) nokia would've documented all the APIs + b) maemo.org wouldn't fall down all the time
Nov 22 22:33:05 <czr> somehow, I don't see that happening any time soon :-)
Nov 22 22:33:18 <mgedmin> or apple open-sourced the iPhone firmware
Nov 22 22:33:28 <czr> it will all happen on the same day
Nov 22 22:34:09 <timeless> interesting
Nov 22 22:34:19 <timeless> hildon-application-manager didn't make the chinook beta
Nov 22 22:34:32 <czr> yeah
Nov 22 22:34:34 <czr> it didn't
Nov 22 22:34:40 <czr> I could've told you that
Nov 22 22:34:41 <timeless> hrm
Nov 22 22:34:48 <timeless> well, my xref told me :)
Nov 22 22:34:52 <timeless> but this is odd
Nov 22 22:34:55 <czr> in 3.2 you had to install it separately
Nov 22 22:35:03 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/find?string=app.*man.*debian%2Fcontrol&tree=chinook&hint=
Nov 22 22:35:04 <czr> in 4.0 it's installed by default
Nov 22 22:35:15 <timeless> can you explain why there are 2 debian/ dirs?
Nov 22 22:35:22 <mgedmin> how can one request removal of an obsolete project from the app catalog?
Nov 22 22:35:28 <czr> which is an improvement, except that you can't really do anything with it in SDK without my EVIL HACKS.
Nov 22 22:35:42 * timeless nods
Nov 22 22:35:52 <timeless> been there, heard|read that
Nov 22 22:36:13 <czr> timeless, 1_2.0.1 looks like an extra copy
Nov 22 22:36:30 * timeless nods
Nov 22 22:36:48 <timeless> afaik that's the only case of it though...
Nov 22 22:37:02 <czr> but it is 2.0.1, so it's supposed to be _twice_ as good as the previous one, right? ;-)
Nov 22 22:37:18 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/find?string=%2F.*%2F.*%2Fdebian%2Fcontrol&tree=chinook&hint=
Nov 22 22:37:52 <timeless> ok, wireless-tools has the same thing
Nov 22 22:37:58 <czr> timeless, one of them is under mircob
Nov 22 22:38:01 <czr> :-)
Nov 22 22:38:16 <timeless> that's different
Nov 22 22:38:19 <czr> the hdparm under cdbs seems weird
Nov 22 22:38:23 <timeless> that one is actually a gecko package iirc
Nov 22 22:38:32 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/microb-engine-1.0.3/mozilla/build/package/debian/CVS/
Nov 22 22:38:35 <czr> the one under defome looks really broken
Nov 22 22:38:47 <czr> defoma even
Nov 22 22:38:51 * timeless nods
Nov 22 22:39:03 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/defoma-0.11.7osso/%7Barch%7D/
Nov 22 22:39:13 <timeless> the defoma one really scares me
Nov 22 22:39:23 <czr> ,,inode-sigs?
Nov 22 22:39:27 <czr> argh
Nov 22 22:39:37 * czr spanks whoever inveted that dirname
Nov 22 22:39:42 <czr> invented even
Nov 22 22:40:00 <timeless> interesting
Nov 22 22:40:08 <czr> timeless, btw, mxr doens't want to show those files at all
Nov 22 22:40:15 <czr> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/defoma-0.11.7osso/{arch}/,,inode-sigs/
Nov 22 22:40:23 * timeless nods
Nov 22 22:40:36 <suihkulokki> it's great linux desktop has mono theys days
Nov 22 22:40:36 <timeless> not sure what it doesn't like
Nov 22 22:40:52 <timeless> the files do /seem/ to exist
Nov 22 22:40:53 <timeless> oh
Nov 22 22:40:54 * czr sticks a "mono" up suihkulokkis private place
Nov 22 22:40:57 <timeless> hrm
Nov 22 22:41:10 <suihkulokki> ...unfortunatly all the .net apps are hidden inside installshield exes that wine refuses to rin
Nov 22 22:41:17 <czr> mono = skii'ing boot in finnish
Nov 22 22:41:27 <suihkulokki> ..including nokia map loader
Nov 22 22:41:29 <czr> ski'ing even
Nov 22 22:41:41 <sp3000> timeless: whoa, http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/defoma-0.11.7osso/{arch}/%2C%2Cinode-sigs/gus@inodes.org--debian%252525defoma--debian--1.0--base-0 works :D
Nov 22 22:41:50 <timeless> czr: ok, clearly one of the characters upsets it
Nov 22 22:41:56 <timeless> sp3000: so it was %?
Nov 22 22:41:57 <czr> timeless, { ?
Nov 22 22:42:16 <czr> maybe it's trying to do shell globs on it
Nov 22 22:42:26 <timeless> no
Nov 22 22:42:30 <timeless> it's url encoding issues
Nov 22 22:42:34 <timeless> the '%' char in the filename
Nov 22 22:42:40 <timeless> hence sp3000's url worked
Nov 22 22:42:42 <czr> but that's just %%
Nov 22 22:42:43 <sp3000> timeless: I seem to actually see the redirects go in the url, from %252525 to %2525 to %25 with that ;)
Nov 22 22:42:54 <czr> heh
Nov 22 22:42:57 <timeless> sp3000: yeah, that was whacky
Nov 22 22:43:10 <timeless> no idea what drove that
Nov 22 22:43:27 <czr> what do you people expect? it is a frigging red carnivore smiling at a post industrial town!
Nov 22 22:43:32 <czr> (the mozilla.org logo)
Nov 22 22:43:52 <czr> and a dinosaur too
Nov 22 22:44:57 <czr> this is why I love perl so much:
Nov 22 22:45:00 <czr>   26         my $y = $x;
Nov 22 22:45:00 <czr>   27         $y =~ s/^\s*//s;
Nov 22 22:45:00 <czr>   28         $y =~ s/\\\n//sg;
Nov 22 22:45:00 <czr>   29         $y =~ s/\s*$//s;
Nov 22 22:45:10 <timeless> which is that?
Nov 22 22:45:22 * timeless doesn't really feel like searchig for y =~ s
Nov 22 22:45:23 <czr> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/ifupdown-0.6.7osso/_darcs/current/debian/upgrade-from-0.5.x.pl
Nov 22 22:45:25 <Andy80> some ascii picture :D
Nov 22 22:45:25 <suihkulokki> line noise?
Nov 22 22:45:49 <czr> "some magical script whose author thought that perl is so sexy that no comments are really ever necessary"
Nov 22 22:45:55 <sp3000> hm, that previous url isn't actually what worked, rather http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/defoma-0.11.7osso/%7Barch%7D/%2C%2Cinode-sigs/gus@inodes.org--debian%252525defoma--debian--1.0--base-0
Nov 22 22:46:15 <sp3000> er
Nov 22 22:46:15 <timeless> czr: what i like is that the perl is actually reasonably highlighted :)
Nov 22 22:46:19 <sp3000> ok, I'm confused
Nov 22 22:46:26 * sp3000 blames chatzilla or something
Nov 22 22:46:28 <czr> timeless, kind of, yeah :-)
Nov 22 22:46:33 <suihkulokki> yes, perl is great: http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pdw/Mail-RFC822-Address.html
Nov 22 22:46:41 <czr> timeless, at least it shows the $:s using a different color ;-)
Nov 22 22:47:23 <czr> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/ident?i=m
Nov 22 22:47:38 <czr> chick on the _m_ on line 16 of: http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/ifupdown-0.6.7osso/debian/upgrade-from-0.5.x.pl
Nov 22 22:47:40 <czr> hah
Nov 22 22:47:42 <czr> mxr <3
Nov 22 22:47:52 * timeless loves how many hits m has
Nov 22 22:48:07 * sp3000 declines to try understanding why that linkifies ...erm
Nov 22 22:48:07 <czr> _who_ in their right might defines _anything_ important as 'm'
Nov 22 22:48:12 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/ident?i=m
Nov 22 22:48:17 <timeless> erp
Nov 22 22:48:19 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/dpkg-1.13.25.osso7/scripts/dpkg-source.pl#908
Nov 22 22:48:21 <sp3000> if I launch or drag the urls, it doesn't work, but copy works :(
Nov 22 22:48:24 * sp3000 worries
Nov 22 22:48:28 <timeless>  908     my $m;
Nov 22 22:48:36 <timeless>  912     $m= `md5sum`; $? && subprocerr("md5sum $f"); $m =~ s/\n$//;
Nov 22 22:48:36 <timeless>  913     $m = readmd5sum( $m );
Nov 22 22:48:36 <timeless>  914     $m eq $md5sum{$f} || &error(sprintf(_g("file %s has md5sum %s instead of expected %s"), $f, $m, $md5sum{$f}));
Nov 22 22:48:39 <sp3000> (or, copy link location, which makes it weird)
Nov 22 22:48:51 <czr> my m? bleh :-)
Nov 22 22:48:56 <czr> what happened to honest 'i'?
Nov 22 22:49:06 <khertan_> lol totally unmaintainable. !
Nov 22 22:49:08 <timeless> m stands for md5sum
Nov 22 22:49:11 <timeless> don't you get it? :)
Nov 22 22:49:20 <czr> timeless, no it doesn't
Nov 22 22:49:36 <czr> it stands for 'me be guruhaxor who no need comments lolor'
Nov 22 22:49:42 <suihkulokki> czr: it was renamed to justAnotherGenericVariableForTemporaryUsage=1;
Nov 22 22:49:51 <czr> suihkulokki, ahhh. thanks :-)
Nov 22 22:50:02 <doc|work> back in my day loops were what happened when the tape got stuck! </oldPerson>
Nov 22 22:50:03 * mgedmin wants to know what happens when $f == "`xclock&`"
Nov 22 22:50:29 <timeless> czr: unfortunately mxr doesn't say how many people use m as identifiers :(
Nov 22 22:50:32 <czr> doc|home, yeah, that's why there are two separate works in finnish for "loop"
Nov 22 22:50:34 <timeless> but boy the list is long :)
Nov 22 22:50:43 <czr> timeless, or what their home address is!
Nov 22 22:50:50 <czr> kiersio and silmukka
Nov 22 22:50:52 <doc|work> czr: that and because you like to fuck up the foreigners
Nov 22 22:50:59 <czr> kiersio (o + umlatus)
Nov 22 22:51:09 <czr> is the official form for programming loops
Nov 22 22:51:20 <czr> of course no one uses it because it just sounds too sad
Nov 22 22:51:24 <doc|work> just for programming loops?
Nov 22 22:51:27 <czr> yeah
Nov 22 22:51:34 * sp3000 hasn't even heard of it :O
Nov 22 22:51:42 <doc|work> do you have a department for creating finnish words?
Nov 22 22:51:49 <doc|work> Ireland has one for the Irish language
Nov 22 22:52:00 <czr> there's an office of official finnish language things
Nov 22 22:52:06 <doc|work> riomhaire = computer
Nov 22 22:52:08 <czr> "Suomen Kielitoimisto"
Nov 22 22:52:09 <timeless> sp3000: so what's the story w/ %s?
Nov 22 22:52:09 <doc|work> iirc
Nov 22 22:52:25 <czr> silmukka is closests to "spool" really
Nov 22 22:52:29 <timeless> is the problem that the % needs to be double escaped?
Nov 22 22:52:31 <czr> closest even
Nov 22 22:52:43 <czr> or noose.
Nov 22 22:53:01 <czr> it's much older than programming, so doesn't really convey the action of "repeating"
Nov 22 22:53:23 <czr> cause obviously there's just a limited number of times you can apply a noose to anything (esp. a person) etc
Nov 22 22:53:29 <timeless> sp3000: oh !
Nov 22 22:53:35 <timeless> it's the stupid {}s
Nov 22 22:53:37 <czr> so, hence was born "kiersio"
Nov 22 22:53:40 <czr> timeless, told you so!
Nov 22 22:54:01 <czr> <czr> timeless, { ?
Nov 22 22:54:01 <czr> <czr> maybe it's trying to do shell globs on it
Nov 22 22:54:02 <sp3000> timeless: what, do they trigger some magic?
Nov 22 22:54:18 <timeless> it's not shell globs i don't think
Nov 22 22:54:27 <czr> well, told you so / 2.
Nov 22 22:54:55 <czr> maybe some printf formatting thingy in perl
Nov 22 22:55:02 <czr> or rather, print "foo" thingy
Nov 22 22:55:57 <timeless> ok, i really really don't get this
Nov 22 22:56:17 * czr gladly pronounces that the universe is still safe. i > m: http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/ident?i=i
Nov 22 22:56:32 <timeless> heh
Nov 22 22:57:27 <timeless> wait
Nov 22 22:57:31 <timeless> sp3000?
Nov 22 22:57:34 <czr> timeless, http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/mxrrr.png
Nov 22 22:57:35 <doc|work> so, just as a matter of interest, why is it that nokia ships the machine with a kind of a crappy screen protector?
Nov 22 22:58:14 <czr> doc|work, so that you'd buy N900 or whatever comes out next?
Nov 22 22:58:14 <sp3000> so the screen doesn't get things on it before the customer gets to put things on it, presumably
Nov 22 22:58:23 <timeless> czr: you complaining about something?
Nov 22 22:58:27 <czr> ah that one, yes
Nov 22 22:58:31 <czr> timeless, yeah. the boxes
Nov 22 22:58:33 <sp3000> unless you mean the pouch or such
Nov 22 22:58:37 <timeless> yeah figures
Nov 22 22:58:44 <czr> "as member of flass f[box] [box]VB"
Nov 22 22:58:46 <doc|work> czr: I'd probably do that anyway
Nov 22 22:58:47 <timeless> that's kinda how it encodes certain bits
Nov 22 22:58:49 <timeless> it's clearly corrupt
Nov 22 22:58:56 <timeless> i don't want ot think about that now
Nov 22 22:59:01 <timeless> but feel free to file a bug
Nov 22 22:59:08 <czr> timeless, but finland is the least corrupt country in the europe, how dare you!
Nov 22 22:59:08 <timeless> does it happen in the other chinook (the older one) and sardine?
Nov 22 22:59:11 <doc|work> sp3000: I meant the plastic, easily scratched, layer on the screen
Nov 22 22:59:28 <czr> timeless, just was wondering whether you knew about it or not :-)
Nov 22 22:59:29 <timeless> czr: good thinkg timeless.justdave.net is hosted in the good old us of a :)
Nov 22 22:59:42 <timeless> i've seen it occasionally, not recently
Nov 22 22:59:57 <czr> hmm. right.
Nov 22 23:00:15 <czr> well, do an ident search on "i" the next time you need motivation to fix something :-)
Nov 22 23:00:19 <timeless> (mind you, that reference came from swift which is on my desk here in finland)
Nov 22 23:00:34 <timeless> sp3000: so....
Nov 22 23:00:36 <czr> timeless, so you're screwed..!
Nov 22 23:00:39 <timeless> the url doesn't seem to be stable
Nov 22 23:00:45 <timeless> am i right?
Nov 22 23:01:10 <timeless> is that an ff bug?
Nov 22 23:01:25 <czr> heh. <3 mxr.. this is why I love C++: http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/gcc-3.4-3.4.4cs2005q3.2/gcc-2005q3-2/gcc/testsuite/g++.dg/template/memfriend7.C
Nov 22 23:01:51 <sp3000> timeless: yeah, it's weird
Nov 22 23:01:57 <czr> no wonder all symbian people end up in the loonies
Nov 22 23:02:00 <timeless> sp3000: wanna file a bug?
Nov 22 23:02:15 <timeless> (against minefield, not mxr!)
Nov 22 23:02:39 <teprrr> czr, looks like autogenerated file for me :P
Nov 22 23:02:55 <czr> teprrr, it's not. it's a test-file
Nov 22 23:02:55 <timeless> teprrr: those tend to be reduce testcases iirc
Nov 22 23:03:16 <czr> but still. any language that allows that kind of crap deserves to die
Nov 22 23:03:18 <teprrr> czr, yes I Know that..
Nov 22 23:03:22 <czr> _imho_ :-)
Nov 22 23:03:33 <teprrr> but just thinking that it could be autogenerated with some precompiler :p
Nov 22 23:03:36 <timeless> czr: like finnish? :)
Nov 22 23:03:41 <teprrr> s/could be/could have been/
Nov 22 23:03:42 <timeless> actually, my first lesson is today
Nov 22 23:03:42 <infobot> teprrr meant: but just thinking that it could have been autogenerated with some precompiler :p
Nov 22 23:03:42 <czr> timeless, sure.
Nov 22 23:04:00 <teprrr> s/with/by/
Nov 22 23:04:01 <infobot> teprrr meant: but just thinking that it could be autogenerated by some precompiler :p
Nov 22 23:04:05 <czr> timeless, but you have to remember that I'm not really a finn :-)
Nov 22 23:04:22 <timeless> you're a russian or something?
Nov 22 23:04:23 <teprrr> it's always nice when someone fixes your sentences.. :-)
Nov 22 23:04:34 <czr> timeless, I don't know. human mostly
Nov 22 23:04:53 <czr> never got a chance to establish a personal nationality
Nov 22 23:05:03 <czr> so I just "am" most of the time.
Nov 22 23:05:54 <timeless> and the rest of the time, you are not?
Nov 22 23:06:18 <czr> the rest of the time I read CPU and chip databooks and breathe binary. or drink alcohol. either of the two :-)
Nov 22 23:06:35 <sp3000> timeless: oh, hm. yeah, I've seen minefield eat %escapes in its display, but this one's freaky
Nov 22 23:08:32 <sp3000> I suppose the double-escape part is an mxr bug
Nov 22 23:09:08 <timeless> what should mxr do?
Nov 22 23:09:39 * timeless tries ie
Nov 22 23:10:03 <sp3000> fx2 acts quite a bit saner :)
Nov 22 23:10:04 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/defoma-0.11.7osso/%7Barch%7D/,,inode-sigs/gus@inodes.org--debian%2525defoma--debian--1.0--patch-1
Nov 22 23:10:08 <timeless> works fine in ie
Nov 22 23:10:13 <sp3000> right
Nov 22 23:10:28 <timeless> it's also stable
Nov 22 23:10:35 <timeless> so yes, please file a bug about minefield
Nov 22 23:10:38 <timeless> it's definitely borked
Nov 22 23:10:43 <sp3000> the jumping about seems to be a fx3 ui thing
Nov 22 23:10:44 <lardman> Ah, cool, chap just contacted me and is interested in writing/helping with SBC (a2dp) dsp task
Nov 22 23:10:45 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/defoma-0.11.7osso/{arch}/,,inode-sigs/gus@inodes.org--debian%2525defoma--debian--1.0--patch-1
Nov 22 23:10:48 <timeless> also works in ie
Nov 22 23:11:58 <timeless> ok, last half of the question
Nov 22 23:12:04 <sp3000> that explains why it acted differently when the url was dispatched not from the location bar
Nov 22 23:12:05 <timeless> what url is the correct url?
Nov 22 23:12:16 <sp3000> %25 I believe would be
Nov 22 23:12:23 <timeless> ok
Nov 22 23:12:28 <timeless> so the problem isn't the encoder
Nov 22 23:12:30 <timeless> it's the decoder
Nov 22 23:12:38 <Tieku> timeless, crzm you helped me earlier by recomending i use rcS.d to run a script at boot. I'm given that a go. looking at other scripts in the folder they start with #!/bin/sh
Nov 22 23:12:40 <Tieku>  -e. do you know what the -e is for and if i need it?
Nov 22 23:13:18 <sp3000>               -e      Exit  immediately if a simple command (see SHELL GRAMMAR above) exits with a non-zero sta‐
Nov 22 23:13:18 <timeless> no :)
Nov 22 23:13:21 <sp3000>                       tus.  The shell does not exit if the command that fails is part of the command list  imme‐
Nov 22 23:13:24 <sp3000>                       diately following a while or until keyword, part of the test in an if statement, part of a
Nov 22 23:13:27 <sp3000>                       && or ││ list, or if the command’s return value is being inverted via !.  A trap  on  ERR,
Nov 22 23:13:30 * czr thinks now is the prefect time to retire
Nov 22 23:13:30 <sp3000>                       if set, is executed before the shell exits.
Nov 22 23:13:34 * sp3000 wins at wrapping
Nov 22 23:13:42 <timeless> heh
Nov 22 23:13:42 * mgedmin teaches sp3000 about pastebins
Nov 22 23:13:54 <czr> with a trout mgedmin
Nov 22 23:14:01 <czr> trout is imporant
Nov 22 23:14:11 <Tieku> thanks sp3000
Nov 22 23:14:38 * sp3000 would just wrap the trout badly and paste it back
Nov 22 23:14:45 <zerojay> Friends don't let friends root while drunk.
Nov 22 23:14:48 <mgedmin> oh crap, http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/xmodmap/ has no install link
Nov 22 23:14:57 * mgedmin needs xmodmap and xev
Nov 22 23:15:02 <zerojay> And I don't mean it in that Aussie "rooting = fucking" sort of way.
Nov 22 23:15:18 <czr> "rootme"
Nov 22 23:15:28 * czr hides and runs
Nov 22 23:15:29 <zerojay> Yeah, I always kind of laughed at that.
Nov 22 23:15:32 <czr> to sleep
Nov 22 23:15:43 <czr> aye. night all ->
Nov 22 23:15:47 <kaltsi> mgedmin: xev is in the sdk repository x-debug-tools package
Nov 22 23:16:09 <mgedmin> at least the homepage link is sane (doesn't point to upstream)
Nov 22 23:16:15 <mgedmin> kaltsi: thanks
Nov 22 23:16:20 <mgedmin> but what about xmodmap?
Nov 22 23:16:51 <kaltsi> maybe you can port it and put it to the extras repo? :)
Nov 22 23:17:49 * mgedmin should
Nov 22 23:19:05 <sp3000> dammit
Nov 22 23:19:17 * sp3000 tries to file the bug but can't manage to spell broken
Nov 22 23:19:30 <sp3000> hey, third time's the charm
Nov 22 23:19:53 <sp3000> borken? broekn?
Nov 22 23:20:10 <zerojay> b9rked\
Nov 22 23:20:13 <zerojay> oops
Nov 22 23:23:13 <mgedmin> broked
Nov 22 23:23:17 <mgedmin> augh!
Nov 22 23:25:00 <lardman> geborken surely
Nov 22 23:29:52 <timeless> sp3000: ok, i think i might have found the problem, maybe
Nov 22 23:34:53 <sp3000> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=405038
Nov 22 23:35:58 <sp3000> it's late, so I didn't try to make sense about how it should work and why, except for the round-trip part which should be obvious
Nov 22 23:36:43 <sp3000> but presumably it should only screw around with characters that can be displayed without escaping, presumably there's some sort of anti-obfuscation of canonicalization deal there
Nov 22 23:36:51 <sp3000> s/of/or/
Nov 22 23:36:51 <infobot> sp3000 meant: but presumably it should only screw around with characters that can be displayed without escaping, presumably there's some sort or anti-obfuscation of canonicalization deal there
Nov 22 23:38:02 <mgedmin> sp3000: what firefox version is this?
Nov 22 23:38:08 <mgedmin> I can't reproduce with ffox 2.0 on linux
Nov 22 23:38:16 <sp3000> mgedmin: why, the future
Nov 22 23:38:32 <sp3000> (Version: [Trunk|v]
Nov 22 23:38:35 <sp3000> )
Nov 22 23:38:55 <mgedmin> cool
Nov 22 23:39:08 <sp3000> cool, I didn't mention any specific version in comment 0
Nov 22 23:39:16 * sp3000 needs a nap, clearly :)
Nov 22 23:39:24 <timeless> i'm still mucking w/ mxr
Nov 22 23:39:26 <timeless> i'll stop shortly
Nov 22 23:39:33 * mgedmin tries to weigh the potential amusement value and the work needed to check out and build mozilla trunk
Nov 22 23:39:39 <timeless> oh
Nov 22 23:39:42 * timeless gets it
Nov 22 23:39:45 <sp3000> mgedmin: nightly builds
Nov 22 23:40:05 <sp3000> unless you specifically want build amusement ;)
Nov 22 23:40:20 <timeless> sp3000: ok, got it
Nov 22 23:40:24 <timeless> http_wash is doing me in
Nov 22 23:40:49 <mgedmin> if someone ported gnome-open to maemo, would gnome-open http://some.url work?
Nov 22 23:40:57 * mgedmin suspects the answer is "no"
Nov 22 23:41:18 * mgedmin tries to remember the 130-character long dbus-send command line to open a url in the browser
Nov 22 23:41:19 * mgedmin fails
Nov 22 23:41:22 <lopz> hola
Nov 22 23:41:49 <sp3000> dbus-send --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser --dest=com.nokia.osso_browser com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url 'string:urlurl'
Nov 22 23:43:30 <mgedmin> thanks
Nov 22 23:43:38 <mgedmin> there should be a shell script
Nov 22 23:43:40 <mgedmin> built-in
Nov 22 23:44:20 <doc|work> x-chat on maemo, does is there anyway to get it to do url handling like it does on the desktop?
Nov 23 00:03:58 <timeless> sp3000: ok, i'm very confused
Nov 23 00:04:11 <timeless> if the url bar says %25
Nov 23 00:04:20 <timeless> the wire seems to only send %
Nov 23 00:04:31 <sp3000> from whom?
Nov 23 00:04:50 <sp3000> I hope you're not using something crazy like fx3
Nov 23 00:10:53 <sp3000> I think it eats one 25 on input and another on display :)
Nov 23 00:20:20 <pupnik> date
Nov 23 00:20:46 <sp3000> pe 23.11.2007 02:20:42 +0200
Nov 23 00:24:46 <pupnik> :/
Nov 23 00:27:52 <pupnik> http://youtube.com/watch?v=UZlVotSGOto   ITT's Reggie with jolly candy-like N810
Nov 23 00:42:00 <GNUton> Hi
Nov 23 00:45:07 <pupnik> moo
Nov 23 00:45:57 <penguinbait> bahhhhahhahah
Nov 23 00:46:29 * doc|work ponders dinner, steak or lamd
Nov 23 00:46:34 <doc|work> *lamb
Nov 23 00:46:36 * doc|work loads rifle
Nov 23 00:47:22 <penguinbait> uh er, bah humbug
Nov 23 00:47:27 <penguinbait> ducks
Nov 23 00:47:35 * pupnik runs
Nov 23 00:47:40 <doc|work> oh, duck, now you're clouding the issue :/
Nov 23 00:47:48 <doc|work> *blam* lamb it is
Nov 23 00:51:22 <GNUton> penguinbait: have you compiled Qt4 for maemo?
Nov 23 00:51:50 <penguinbait> I was working on it, but I was having issues
Nov 23 00:52:06 <GNUton> penguinbait: i've packaged it! :)
Nov 23 00:52:34 <penguinbait> sweet, I will be happy to use your when building KDE4
Nov 23 00:52:51 <penguinbait> will it be in garage, or can you send me a link?
Nov 23 00:53:06 <GNUton> it will be in garage soon..
Nov 23 00:53:28 <penguinbait> nice, 4.3.2?
Nov 23 00:53:32 <GNUton> yeah! :)
Nov 23 00:54:00 <penguinbait> are you building qt apps for maemo?
Nov 23 00:55:02 <GNUton> no, i'm a kde developer...
Nov 23 00:55:13 <GNUton> and i'ven't got a maemo device yet..
Nov 23 00:55:21 <gw280> GNUton: cool, what do you hack on in KDE?
Nov 23 00:55:34 <GNUton> i'm working on kblogger!
Nov 23 00:55:41 <GNUton> kblogger for KDE4
Nov 23 00:55:47 <penguinbait> So are you poring KDE4 for maemo
Nov 23 00:55:53 <penguinbait> porting
Nov 23 00:55:53 <_Monkey> well, porting is http://test.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_porting_an_existing_application.html
Nov 23 00:56:03 <GNUton> penguinbait: i'hope
Nov 23 00:56:04 <penguinbait> stupidmonkey
Nov 23 00:56:17 <penguinbait> I just finished 3.5.8
Nov 23 00:56:28 <penguinbait> with kdepim, koffice and cups
Nov 23 00:56:34 <penguinbait> 338qt
Nov 23 00:56:35 <GNUton> kblogger for KDE4 it's really powerful
Nov 23 00:56:55 <GNUton> but it's not complete yet.. it doesn't manage thumbnail...
Nov 23 00:56:58 <penguinbait> I had kblogger in the 3.5.8 version
Nov 23 00:57:13 <GNUton> kblogger for KDE3 sucks!
Nov 23 00:57:21 <penguinbait> ah, I never used it
Nov 23 00:57:26 <gw280> GNUton: ah
Nov 23 01:00:17 <penguinbait> Can you tell me what you did to compile qt432 in scratchbox?
Nov 23 01:00:50 <penguinbait> When I tried it blows up
Nov 23 01:00:54 <penguinbait> did you patch?
Nov 23 01:01:30 <GNUton> penguinbait: i've patched the code, and i've modified the package..
Nov 23 01:01:44 <GNUton> rules, control.. ecc...
Nov 23 01:02:49 <penguinbait> so you will be building KDE4 and all its prereq's and putting them in garage?
Nov 23 01:05:55 <GNUton> penguinbait: i hope!
Nov 23 01:06:48 <penguinbait> Well its very good to have you
Nov 23 01:07:52 <GNUton> :)
Nov 23 01:07:57 <penguinbait> I am not a developer at all, so If I can make it run and printand work pretty darn good, I can only imagine what someone who knows what they are doing, can do :)
Nov 23 01:08:20 <GNUton> i'm happy to see other people that want's run kde/qt apps on maemo! :)
Nov 23 01:08:36 <pupnik> penguinbait is our point man in that department
Nov 23 01:09:14 <pupnik> i hope we can someday do multiple-kernels on the device
Nov 23 01:09:17 <penguinbait> I also never put anything together but giat tarballs, so easy installation would be a welcome to many
Nov 23 01:09:27 <penguinbait> s/giat/giant/
Nov 23 01:09:28 <infobot> penguinbait meant: I also never put anything together but giant tarballs, so easy installation would be a welcome to many
Nov 23 01:09:56 <penguinbait> me too pupnik
Nov 23 01:09:58 <pupnik> tarball + shellscript is a good way
Nov 23 01:10:28 <penguinbait> I am so happy about the 2GB on the 810, its just an untar and your done
Nov 23 01:10:45 <pupnik> i'd like a "oh you'd like to try out a different OS on your device?  which partition?  ok here we goo..."
Nov 23 01:10:48 <penguinbait> might need to find somewhere to put your maps though
Nov 23 01:10:58 <penguinbait> yup
Nov 23 01:11:51 <pupnik> installing the multi-boot loader changed my 'tablet life'
Nov 23 01:12:03 <pupnik> back up partitions, screw around with things, restore them
Nov 23 01:12:49 <pupnik> it's amazing how the N810 release announcement has slowed time.
Nov 23 01:12:59 <penguinbait> hehe
Nov 23 01:13:15 <penguinbait> I want my n810 and the last month has been crawling by
Nov 23 01:13:53 <|R> haha indeed :|
Nov 23 01:14:45 <penguinbait> I actually accomplished more in the last month, than I did in the last year messing with KDE
Nov 23 01:15:02 <penguinbait> I just want a device to play with it on now
Nov 23 01:42:33 <captlloyd> penguinbait: Yeah, same here
Nov 23 01:42:50 <captlloyd> I've had mine on order for almost 4 weeks
Nov 23 01:42:58 <captlloyd> It should be here tomorrow.... hopefully..
Nov 23 01:43:08 <penguinbait> your way ahead of me
Nov 23 02:02:02 <pupnik> strange how motivation to work on things waxes and wanes
Nov 23 02:02:17 <pupnik> i should keep track of my productive time and graph it
Nov 23 02:02:42 <timeless> i track people by http access logs :)
Nov 23 02:02:52 <timeless> hrm, i haven't done that in a while
Nov 23 02:03:02 <pupnik> "An unexamined life is not worth living." - Socrates
Nov 23 02:05:38 <lopz> brb
Nov 23 02:17:21 <lopz> re
Nov 23 02:42:25 <pupnik> moo
Nov 23 02:45:02 <l7> arr
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 23 02:59:57 2007