**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 11 02:59:57 2007
Dec 11 03:07:43 <lopz> re
Dec 11 03:13:51 <digVer> Hello, I created an account 2 days ago now at maemo.org and still can't log in.  I can log into garage .maemo.org though.
Dec 11 03:25:27 <lopz> bye
Dec 11 04:28:37 <|R> freychef : mtl? :)
Dec 11 04:28:45 <freychef> yup
Dec 11 04:29:06 <|R> hehe, i'm not alone, wiii! ;)
Dec 11 04:29:32 <|R> how are you doing? :)
Dec 11 04:29:32 <freychef> i'm new to this channel.
Dec 11 04:30:06 <|R> new to maemo devices?
Dec 11 04:30:45 <freychef> yeah, got my n800 back in october, love it.
Dec 11 04:30:55 <|R> same here :-)
Dec 11 04:31:14 <Vulc|Sleeps> I got mine four days ago.
Dec 11 04:31:22 <|R> and you sleep ?
Dec 11 04:31:26 <freychef> just waiting till they release os2008 and canola.
Dec 11 04:31:27 <Vulc|Sleeps> Hopefully.
Dec 11 04:31:38 <Vulc|Sleeps> Eh, theres a beta of Os2008 that runs quite well
Dec 11 04:31:43 <|R> wasn't the beta supposed to be released today?
Dec 11 04:31:50 <|R> (canola)
Dec 11 04:31:54 <freychef> yes, but not a fan of beta's
Dec 11 04:32:10 <Vulc|Sleeps> canola beta is today, yeah
Dec 11 04:32:21 <Vulc|Sleeps> frey: From what I can tell, OS2008beta is more stable than 2007...
Dec 11 04:32:55 <freychef> well, i'm patient, i'll wait for the official release.
Dec 11 04:33:17 <Vulc|Sleeps> Anyone know when that will be? I heard mid december.
Dec 11 04:33:18 <freychef> probably just another week or so...
Dec 11 04:33:26 <|R> yeah, hopefully
Dec 11 04:33:41 <Vulc|Sleeps> will there be an easier way to flash it?
Dec 11 04:33:55 <freychef> easier? like how?
Dec 11 04:33:58 <|R> i don't think so?
Dec 11 04:34:16 <|R> it's just: boot in home-button-mode (or whatever) and copy paste a line :)
Dec 11 04:34:35 <Vulc|Sleeps> Yeah, but that requires me setting up a linux VM again
Dec 11 04:34:50 <|R> isn't there mac and windows flasher utils?
Dec 11 04:34:53 <Vulc|Sleeps> Linux does not like my hardware
Dec 11 04:35:04 <Vulc|Sleeps> only mac and linux, when I flashed 08
Dec 11 04:35:06 <|R> (i don't know about those but... i've seen people comment about that)
Dec 11 04:35:08 <Vulc|Sleeps> 08 beta
Dec 11 04:35:11 <|R> oh
Dec 11 04:35:14 <|R> pretty weird
Dec 11 04:35:17 <Vulc|Sleeps> not really
Dec 11 04:35:23 <|R> well not that i care... but :)
Dec 11 04:35:24 <Vulc|Sleeps> OSX runs off of unix
Dec 11 04:35:26 <Vulc|Sleeps> partially
Dec 11 04:35:41 <freychef> which linux? and what hardware?
Dec 11 04:35:42 <|R> well, they could make one for cygwin or something :)
Dec 11 04:36:19 <Vulc|Sleeps> Frey: Random sound drivers, some wierd problems with graphics.  Kubuntu, for now.
Dec 11 04:36:32 <Vulc|Sleeps> |R: Yeah, for some reason cyg wouldn't do it for me
Dec 11 04:36:48 <freychef> hmmm...
Dec 11 04:36:53 <blithe> Vulc|Sleeps: Where'd you get your n800 from if you don't mind me asking?
Dec 11 04:37:02 <Vulc|Sleeps> blithe: Newegg.
Dec 11 04:37:05 <Vulc|Sleeps> Why?
Dec 11 04:37:14 <blithe> I cancelled my buy.com order, as they've procrastinated on shipping it for over a week.
Dec 11 04:37:36 <Vulc|Sleeps> friend of mine got his from walmart pretty fast, too.  only about 10 bucks more
Dec 11 04:37:39 <blithe> It shouldn't take a week to ship one item that's apparently 'in stock'.
Dec 11 04:37:43 <Vulc|Sleeps> since I believe newegg is out of stock
Dec 11 04:38:44 <|R> *cought* walmart ;)
Dec 11 04:38:55 <|R> -t
Dec 11 04:39:11 <Vulc|Sleeps> |R: And? Its cheap, and apparently 2day shipping came in one.
Dec 11 04:39:45 <|R> well, i won't go on rambling about how bad their ethics are... :P
Dec 11 04:40:22 <Vulc|Sleeps> their ethics are horrible.  But if its the only place you can get it for 250$, I'd go for it and then donate the rest to a human rights group or something.
Dec 11 04:40:29 <Vulc|Sleeps> Or wait a week for newegg to get more in stock
Dec 11 04:40:48 <Vulc|Sleeps> nevermind, n800 is back
Dec 11 04:40:51 <|R> :)
Dec 11 04:40:53 <Vulc|Sleeps> and.. whoa, it costs more than 250 now.
Dec 11 04:40:58 <|R> urhm
Dec 11 04:41:04 <Vulc|Sleeps> Yay sales that are over now
Dec 11 04:41:37 <Vulc|Sleeps> http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_constraint=0&search_query=n800&Continue.x=0&Continue.y=0&Continue=Find&ic=24_0 -- 240$.
Dec 11 04:41:38 <blithe> buy.com's taking their pretty little time to refund my money. :(
Dec 11 04:41:42 <halley> Finally getting some progress on a simple pygame on maemo (nokia n810): http://halley.cc/screenshot05.png
Dec 11 04:41:42 <Vulc|Sleeps> but its boo, hiss.
Dec 11 04:41:49 <blithe> I need to wait for that before I reorder somewhere else.
Dec 11 04:42:15 <|R> halley : oh, an hiragana teaching game :D
Dec 11 04:42:36 <halley> Yeah, though the library is ready for more in-depth ones too.
Dec 11 04:42:46 <halley> This is just the first minigame in the set.
Dec 11 04:43:01 <|R> if i can get an hiragana / katakana and some generic kanji learning game, i'd be happy :)
Dec 11 04:43:07 <freychef> nice!
Dec 11 04:43:14 <|R> (going to japan in the end of mars if all goes well)
Dec 11 04:43:45 <halley> |R, will keep you in mind.
Dec 11 04:43:57 <halley> "end of mars" --> "end of March"?
Dec 11 04:44:08 <|R> haha yeah, sorry, french speaker falling asleep ;)
Dec 11 04:44:15 <|R> i'm typing in frenglish
Dec 11 04:44:23 <halley> Zut alors!
Dec 11 04:44:36 <|R> :D
Dec 11 04:45:53 <halley> Right now I get only ~8 frames per second, because python is SO SLOW on the tablet.
Dec 11 04:46:08 <pupnik> heh
Dec 11 04:46:11 <halley> The pixel-pushing isn't the problem, the python in my library is a bit too general-purpose.
Dec 11 04:46:35 <pupnik> nice to see your project halley
Dec 11 04:48:18 <pupnik> design with the tools you have
Dec 11 04:48:43 <halley> Well, I wrote 95% of the library before I had a NIT in my hands.
Dec 11 04:55:21 <freychef> When I plug my n800 into my desktop, how can I get the desktop to read the n800's entire file system and not just the external mem card? Doable?
Dec 11 04:56:34 <pupnik> i think you can make samba share of your root fs
Dec 11 04:56:53 <freychef> desktop is a linux box.
Dec 11 04:57:36 <freychef> is this a root vs user question?
Dec 11 04:59:20 <halley> freychef, I might be wrong but I think it's just that it's easier to host a block device if the whole hosted entity is one filesystem and filesystem type (e.g., fat32).
Dec 11 05:00:23 <halley> You would have to do some weird translation stuff if hosting the "root" because root contains branches that are different internal hardware components, filesystems, and even formats.
Dec 11 05:00:45 <freychef> ok, but isn't the internal memory card also formatted with fat32?
Dec 11 05:00:55 <halley> No, jffs2 for the root.
Dec 11 05:01:23 <freychef> ok, that's my problem then, I'll have to dig around a little more.
Dec 11 05:01:29 <halley> Even if they're the same format, they are different block devices.  Hosting happens at the block level, not the file level.
Dec 11 05:01:52 <halley> Again, I could be wrong, but that is my understanding.
Dec 11 05:02:25 <freychef> ok, seems to be a good explaination.
Dec 11 05:02:37 <freychef> thanks.
Dec 11 05:23:10 <dragorn> I think the device actually unmounts the card and presents it as a block mass storage device to the host
Dec 11 05:23:36 <dragorn> so no, it can't present the root and initfs the same way
Dec 11 05:42:25 <Fenix-Dark> hey
Dec 11 05:42:36 <l7> heya
Dec 11 05:42:37 <kuzew> hello
Dec 11 05:42:46 <Fenix-Dark> any of you notice problems with the n800's screen scratching?
Dec 11 05:43:15 <l7> hrm, not me, but i use a screen guard
Dec 11 05:43:33 <GeneralAntilles> Did you take off the factory protector?
Dec 11 05:43:43 <l7> not yet
Dec 11 05:43:48 <Fenix-Dark> i replaced my dead 770 with an n800, i just opened the package, and the screen is all scratched up
Dec 11 05:43:51 <l7> should i take it off?
Dec 11 05:44:05 <GeneralAntilles> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2523
Dec 11 05:44:06 <l7> i should get around to ordering a glossy boxwave screen guard
Dec 11 05:44:14 <GeneralAntilles> Even Quim fails at submitting bugs.
Dec 11 05:44:38 <GeneralAntilles> Wait until you get another one.
Dec 11 05:44:49 <GeneralAntilles> Fenix-Dark, it's the screen protector that's scratched
Dec 11 05:44:51 <GeneralAntilles> not the screen itself.
Dec 11 05:45:01 <GeneralAntilles> Get the anti-glare, l7.
Dec 11 05:45:09 <GeneralAntilles> It's much more legible.
Dec 11 05:45:24 <Fenix-Dark> GeneralAntilles, you're correct
Dec 11 05:45:42 <GeneralAntilles> I'd leave it on until you get a third party protector
Dec 11 05:45:54 <GeneralAntilles> The Boxwave anti-glare ones are very nice.
Dec 11 05:47:26 <l7> hrm...
Dec 11 05:47:51 <l7> someone else told me that the glossy was "like having nothing on the screen"
Dec 11 05:48:07 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, but you get a shitload of glare.
Dec 11 05:48:19 <l7> does the anti-glare one seem a bit duller?
Dec 11 05:48:30 <GeneralAntilles> The anti-glare has A. a much better texture (mildly paper-like), and B. anti-glare.
Dec 11 05:48:41 <GeneralAntilles> It is, yes, but you wont notice it.
Dec 11 05:48:54 <GeneralAntilles> It's maybe a 2-4% reduction in brightness.
Dec 11 05:49:08 <l7> now that you mention it, i notice there is some annoying reflections coming from the factory screen guard
Dec 11 05:49:10 <GeneralAntilles> Well worth the better feel and the improved legibility in all lighting conditions.
Dec 11 05:49:28 <l7> is the glossy one comparable to the factory screen guard in glare?
Dec 11 05:49:46 <GeneralAntilles> Seems like it
Dec 11 05:49:54 <GeneralAntilles> The glossy one was on a friends Palm.
Dec 11 05:50:01 <GeneralAntilles> It was a while ago
Dec 11 05:50:08 <l7> have you tried both screen guards?
Dec 11 05:50:12 <GeneralAntilles> and I scratched my factory protector to hell very quickly.
Dec 11 05:50:33 <GeneralAntilles> Only tried the anti-glare on my own hardware
Dec 11 05:50:38 <freychef> i'm looking at their website now...it list a protector for the 770. will that fit on the n800 as well?
Dec 11 05:50:40 <l7> i usually use the n800 at home with dim lighting, but it would be annoying to get a lot of glare if i used it outside
Dec 11 05:50:40 <GeneralAntilles> glossy was on a friend's.
Dec 11 05:50:47 <GeneralAntilles> But it had a lot of glare.
Dec 11 05:51:01 <GeneralAntilles> They have a page for the N800, too.
Dec 11 05:51:11 <GeneralAntilles> But, yes, the screen sizes are the same, freychef.
Dec 11 05:51:31 <l7> freychef: i think the screen sizes are the same, but don't quote me
Dec 11 05:51:34 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, also, the anti-glare doesn't finger-print nearly as easily.
Dec 11 05:51:41 <corevette> screen sizes are same
Dec 11 05:51:43 <GeneralAntilles> They are the same, l7.
Dec 11 05:51:45 <l7> you can quote GeneralAntilles i guess :)
Dec 11 05:52:02 <freychef> OK thanks.
Dec 11 05:52:03 <Fenix-Dark> oh wow
Dec 11 05:52:15 <l7> GeneralAntilles: have you used the anti-glare screen outdoors?
Dec 11 05:52:18 <Fenix-Dark> the stylus in the n800 is a lot better than the ones from the 770
Dec 11 05:52:24 <GeneralAntilles> A lot, l7.
Dec 11 05:52:27 <GeneralAntilles> It's very good.
Dec 11 05:52:34 <l7> how does sunlight affect it?
Dec 11 05:52:50 <GeneralAntilles> You wont have trouble with glare.
Dec 11 05:53:02 <l7> sometimes i wind up hitting myself in the eyes with reflected sunlight from my cell phone
Dec 11 05:53:06 <GeneralAntilles> Just the N800's generally poor outdoor visibility.
Dec 11 05:53:09 <|R> freychef : do you have many friends in montreal with n8x0 devices?
Dec 11 05:53:15 <l7> i don't suppose the anti-glare will do much about reflected sun though
Dec 11 05:53:28 <GeneralAntilles> It's much more diffused, l7.
Dec 11 05:53:46 <|R> yeah not perfect but without anti glare i would get directly blinded :)
Dec 11 05:53:59 <l7> haha
Dec 11 05:54:07 <Fenix-Dark> meh, the case with the 770 was better
Dec 11 05:54:21 <GeneralAntilles> Then use that case, Fenix-Dark. :P
Dec 11 05:54:35 <Fenix-Dark> i dont have it anymore
Dec 11 05:54:54 <l7>  |R: do you have the box wave anti-glare too?
Dec 11 05:55:17 <freychef> |R: no just me.
Dec 11 05:55:18 <l7> hrm, i wonder if there is a poll on preferred screen protectors
Dec 11 05:55:37 <GeneralAntilles> anti-glare, l7.
Dec 11 05:55:41 <|R> l7 :yep
Dec 11 05:55:42 <GeneralAntilles> Trust me on this one. :P
Dec 11 05:56:16 <Fenix-Dark> does the n800 work with wpa2
Dec 11 05:56:19 <l7> heh okay, thanks for the advice
Dec 11 05:56:25 <GeneralAntilles> Just fine, Fenix-Dark.
Dec 11 05:56:36 <l7> Fenix-Dark: it works fine with my airport express
Dec 11 05:56:36 <Fenix-Dark> wierd, it isnt seeing my network
Dec 11 05:56:43 <l7> on wpa2
Dec 11 05:56:53 <|R> http://www.shieldzone.com/item_description/NOKN800.html
Dec 11 05:56:58 <|R> i'd be curious to try this one though
Dec 11 05:57:09 <GeneralAntilles> Network hidden, Fenix-Dark?
Dec 11 05:57:19 <astro76> |R, I can tell you how bad that would be
Dec 11 05:57:29 <|R> astro76 : oh?
Dec 11 05:57:30 <Fenix-Dark> GeneralAntilles, nope
Dec 11 05:57:48 <astro76> |R, put it on a cell phone once, it's extremely rubbery, very poor texture for touch screen
Dec 11 05:58:07 <astro76> takes a lot of moisture to apply too
Dec 11 05:58:17 <|R> astro76: had it on a D2 (cowon) and it worked well with touch screen, but applying it with the water bottle is a PITA...
Dec 11 05:58:32 <|R> i just don't remember how it delt with glare...
Dec 11 05:58:47 <astro76> I can't imagine it would stop any glare
Dec 11 05:58:50 <|R> (not that boxwave was very fun to apply either...)
Dec 11 05:59:00 <astro76> at least the boxwave is washable/reappliable
Dec 11 05:59:04 <|R> yeah
Dec 11 05:59:07 <l7> hrm, the invisible shield one seems much harder
Dec 11 05:59:07 <|R> 5 times haha ;)
Dec 11 05:59:20 <l7> is it still good after five times?
Dec 11 05:59:29 <l7> or is it all wrinkled after five time?
Dec 11 05:59:31 <astro76> the invisible shield can also stretch out of shape
Dec 11 05:59:34 <|R> yeah just what i had to go through to apply...
Dec 11 05:59:48 <|R> with invisishield you'll probably run out of water in their bottle
Dec 11 05:59:54 <l7> ouch
Dec 11 06:00:07 <l7> how exactly does the boxwave installation go?
Dec 11 06:00:09 <|R> anyway, go with boxwave anti-glare :)
Dec 11 06:00:17 <|R> they're all painfull
Dec 11 06:00:18 <l7> i guess step one is removing all dust
Dec 11 06:00:19 <|R> hehe
Dec 11 06:00:22 <|R> yeah
Dec 11 06:00:23 <GeneralAntilles> boxwave wasn't too bad
Dec 11 06:00:27 <GeneralAntilles> It's just the dust
Dec 11 06:00:27 <|R> and then step 2 is the same
Dec 11 06:00:42 <|R> and 3 and 4 and ... i think my house is too old ;)
Dec 11 06:00:44 <l7> why can't nokia just install em of us? :/
Dec 11 06:01:00 <GeneralAntilles> But it's durable, and reaplicable.
Dec 11 06:01:09 <l7> so it's a lot of washing and drying before you get a good install?
Dec 11 06:01:11 <GeneralAntilles> Costs money, l7.
Dec 11 06:01:18 <GeneralAntilles> A bit
Dec 11 06:01:20 <l7> maybe i should move into a clean room...
Dec 11 06:01:29 <GeneralAntilles> It actually helps if you leave it a little damp when you're applying.
Dec 11 06:01:44 <l7> yeah i was kidding :/
Dec 11 06:02:08 <l7> leave it damp?  how will the moisture get out later?
Dec 11 06:02:25 <GeneralAntilles> It's got a plastic applicator thing
Dec 11 06:02:28 <l7> i assume you don't want moisture in your tablet..
Dec 11 06:02:32 <GeneralAntilles> To press out bubbles and such
Dec 11 06:02:49 <GeneralAntilles> Just press the few drops out to the edges and wipe them off.
Dec 11 06:03:00 <l7> won't that mean the water will be pushed to the edge of the screen where it could get behind the panel?
Dec 11 06:03:18 <GeneralAntilles> Panel is sealed.
Dec 11 06:03:57 <l7> hrm, i guess i will have to just have faith in the unit's construction
Dec 11 06:04:16 <|R> anyone here in europe?
Dec 11 06:04:16 <l7> maybe i should cover the speaker grill with saran wrap or something during the install
Dec 11 06:04:23 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Dec 11 06:04:36 <|R> (i know i should stop asking at 01:00 EST)
Dec 11 06:12:23 <Fenix-Dark> hrm, i'm trying to pair my apple bluetooth keyboard with my n800, but when i'm pairing the keyboard, the n800 says 'Pairing failed. Device resources exceeded.  try again?'
Dec 11 06:16:38 <pupnik_> hrm
Dec 11 06:16:44 <pupnik_> sell it
Dec 11 06:45:02 <ranjan> hi i have problems with os2008 and skype on N800
Dec 11 06:45:08 <ranjan> frequent crashes
Dec 11 06:45:14 <ranjan> is that a know issue
Dec 11 06:50:51 <ranjan> anyone here?
Dec 11 06:55:39 <kulve> yes, but I don't use skype
Dec 11 06:56:05 <ranjan> ok ty
Dec 11 07:34:03 <dhr> I have a 770.  I've got it working with a rocketfish bt keyboard but that is big.  I'm trying to get it working with a iGo Stowaway Ultra-Slim bt keyboard and am having no luck.  Any ideas?  Some folks report this keyboard model works with the N800.  Linux on a PC, using the rocketfish BT dongle doesn't seem to see the iGo either.
Dec 11 08:03:09 <ttmrichter> Is alterego online?
Dec 11 08:13:39 <ttmrichter> Has anybody successfully installed from http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/ruby-maemo/ at all?  I can't seem to get the repository working.
Dec 11 08:15:16 <vegai> Wow, they remove OGG already from html5?
Dec 11 08:16:23 <vegai> that was snappy.
Dec 11 08:17:04 <Fatal> silly
Dec 11 08:17:08 <vegai> I didn't know OGG has any patent risks. Has someone covered this issue somewhere?
Dec 11 08:17:30 <vegai> from wikipedia: "Ogg is an open standard for a free container format for digital multimedia, unrestricted by software patents and designed for efficient streaming and manipulation. "
Dec 11 08:17:58 <vegai> and afaik all the related libs are BSD licensed
Dec 11 08:18:17 <Fatal> to me it all sounds like politics :/
Dec 11 08:19:24 <glass_> it's always politics
Dec 11 08:19:32 <glass_> or somebody thinking it would be hard to support on their platform
Dec 11 08:19:43 <vegai> sometimes politics are actually backed by factual arguments
Dec 11 08:19:55 <vegai> in contrast, this seems to be complete bullshit
Dec 11 08:20:44 <suihkulokki> IÍ„'m not sure if vorbis is problematic, but theora could be
Dec 11 08:21:23 <vegai> wikipedia: "While VP3 is patented technology, On2 has irrevocably given royalty-free license of the VP3 patents to everyone, letting anyone use Theora and other VP3-derived codecs for any purpose."
Dec 11 08:21:50 <vegai> ok, that doesn't sound quite as strong as "unrestricted by software patents"
Dec 11 08:22:00 <vegai> I sincerely hope you're right, though
Dec 11 08:22:16 <vegai> I kinda like Nokia and wouldn't want to see them stoop that low
Dec 11 08:22:23 <suihkulokki> vegai: wikipedia is forgetting that ON2 is not the only party with patents in video
Dec 11 08:22:52 <Khertan_TheReal> Hi !
Dec 11 08:23:11 * vegai takes a look at the discussion page
Dec 11 08:24:07 <vegai> nothing much there
Dec 11 08:24:38 <vegai> suihkulokki: you mean there are some sort of general patents?
Dec 11 08:25:00 <vegai> "Showing images in a rapid fashion, patent #3427984723894" :P
Dec 11 08:35:53 <L0cutus> buongiorno
Dec 11 08:39:47 <Khertan_TheReal> i like this patent : http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=8&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=clic&s2=mouse&OS=clic+AND+mouse&RS=clic+AND+mouse
Dec 11 08:40:08 <Khertan_TheReal> hum ... this one is better : http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=43&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=4,734,690&OS=4,734,690&RS=4,734,690
Dec 11 08:41:28 <Khertan_TheReal> there are many stupid patent .... : http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=4,730,185&OS=4,730,185&RS=4,730,185
Dec 11 08:41:42 <Khertan_TheReal> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=30&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=4,730,185&OS=4,730,185&RS=4,730,185
Dec 11 08:41:43 <Khertan_TheReal> lol
Dec 11 08:42:10 <Khertan_TheReal> and the result : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/04/mckool_smith_lawsuit_update/
Dec 11 09:17:23 <keesj> Khertan_TheReal: how about not spamming the channel
Dec 11 09:17:36 <keesj> perhaps use tinyurl?
Dec 11 09:23:10 <AD-N770> bon dia / good morning
Dec 11 09:24:46 <hahlo> Hi, is there any bluetooth applications for os2007 like simple file transfer or vcard exchange?
Dec 11 09:26:47 <Khertan_TheReal> keesj> yes perhaps :)
Dec 11 09:27:16 <Khertan_TheReal> hahlo > file manager do this ...
Dec 11 09:28:35 <hahlo> Khertan_TheReal: ok have look closely, with one clance it look more difficult to send and receive bt files than regular pc gnome
Dec 11 09:46:07 <pupnik_> ttp://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/  multi-touch demo
Dec 11 09:46:58 <Khertan_TheReal> this is not new ...
Dec 11 09:47:10 <Khertan_TheReal> i ve see the page one year ago
Dec 11 09:47:21 <Khertan_TheReal> s/see/seen
Dec 11 09:55:14 <oil_> simple linux question. how to parse number 2  from a variable FOO='<a>1</a> <b>2</b><c>3</c>' ?
Dec 11 09:56:28 <script> oil_: clean way would probably be an xpath query
Dec 11 09:56:40 <oil_> I tried with awk, but it fails when using variable eg: echo $FOO | awk '/<b>/,/<\/b>/'
Dec 11 09:56:59 <oil_> script: how to do that?
Dec 11 09:57:05 <script> oil_: xmlstartlet can do that
Dec 11 09:57:28 <script> but might be some kind of overkill
Dec 11 09:58:05 <oil_> I'm using this with os2008 and if possible, not wish to install external applications.
Dec 11 09:58:27 <oil_> can install as well, but better if can do with the tools which are already included
Dec 11 10:03:04 <kulve> echo $FOO | sed 's,.*<b>\([0-9]\)*</b>.*,\1,'
Dec 11 10:05:50 <oil_> kulve: kiitos! I'll use that one
Dec 11 10:05:52 <jumpula> or you can use tr/cut, but that would be cheating
Dec 11 10:06:05 <jumpula> and makes semantically less sense
Dec 11 10:06:55 <Khertan_TheReal> Yes i ve successfully made my first home applet in ruby :)
Dec 11 10:07:01 <Khertan_TheReal> !
Dec 11 10:07:21 <Khertan_TheReal> need a bit more graphics ... ... and transparency
Dec 11 10:13:24 <Khertan_TheReal> is it possible to make a transparent gtk label ?
Dec 11 10:14:41 <oil_> kulve: one more thing. how to restrict sed to stop on the first </b> on the variable?
Dec 11 10:15:08 <keesj> perhaps there is a greedy flag?
Dec 11 10:15:24 <kulve> oil_: sorry, I don't know that much :)
Dec 11 10:15:49 <oil_> kulve: anyway thanks for the help. I'll try to find it out.  :)
Dec 11 10:27:03 <jumpula> doesn't \([0-9]\)* indicate that it would have to stop to first </b>?
Dec 11 10:27:19 <jumpula> save the trivial case, in which * equals zero
Dec 11 10:30:03 <kulve> jumpula: <b>1</b>sdlökas<b>2</b>
Dec 11 10:30:37 <kulve> I think that was the case addressed above
Dec 11 10:30:55 <jumpula> yeah, but that contains characters that are not 0-9
Dec 11 10:31:10 <oil_> or better <b foo>asdad</b>adhad<b bar>adskhadskh</b>
Dec 11 10:31:35 <jumpula> and your regexp specificly says that only characters 0-9 are allowed in between
Dec 11 10:32:05 <kulve> jumpula: there's two pairs of the b tag. Which one to match?
Dec 11 10:32:21 <oil_> on the xhtml/xml page it has all the characters
Dec 11 10:32:27 <kulve> the sed sentence had .* in the bedinning and in the end..
Dec 11 10:32:47 <jumpula> yes, but shouldn't the 0-9 limit matching
Dec 11 10:32:55 <kulve> jumpula: still missing the point..
Dec 11 10:32:57 <kulve> (I guess)
Dec 11 10:33:13 <jumpula> might be
Dec 11 10:33:25 <dpb_> jumpula: regexp is greedy, it takes the last match
Dec 11 10:33:26 <jumpula> but i think greedy matching should not be possible in that case
Dec 11 10:33:37 <jumpula> dpb_: yeah, that i know
Dec 11 10:33:39 <kulve> jumpula: would my sed sentence match for 1 or for 2 in the example I put there
Dec 11 10:33:52 <kulve> oil_: you start to sound like you want a real xml parsing..
Dec 11 10:34:08 <oil_> kulve: I think this way would be ok
Dec 11 10:34:10 <jumpula> aa. now that i read the pattern, i realize the problem.
Dec 11 10:34:26 <jumpula> i thought the tags were interlapping :)
Dec 11 10:34:55 <kulve> oil: echo $FOO | sed 's,.*<b>\([^<\)*</b>.*,\1,'
Dec 11 10:35:16 <kulve> that one would match a bit better, if there can be anything but < inside the tags
Dec 11 10:35:30 <kulve> hups
Dec 11 10:35:38 <kulve> oil: echo $FOO | sed 's,.*<b>\([^<]\)*</b>.*,\1,'
Dec 11 10:36:02 <jumpula> oil_: there's an excellent utility called xml2 which may help you
Dec 11 10:36:15 <jumpula> it'll change the xml to more sedable form
Dec 11 10:36:35 <jumpula> the sed scripts often become not trivial when doing proper parsing
Dec 11 10:37:05 <jumpula> in perl, you can easily give an option to be greedy/non-greedy
Dec 11 10:37:19 <jumpula> don't know whether sed has the equivalent
Dec 11 10:37:19 <oil_> moment gentleman...taking a bit time to test
Dec 11 10:37:21 <dpb_> echo $FOO | sed 's,.\?<b>\([^<]\)*</b>.*,\1,' matches the first
Dec 11 10:37:42 <dpb_> (only gnu sed though)
Dec 11 10:39:30 <kulve> uhm.. Why?
Dec 11 10:39:34 <dpb_> well.. in that kulves example line.. doesn't seem to work with <b foo>asdad</b>adhad<b bar>adskhadskh</b>..
Dec 11 10:39:46 <kulve> yeah, because you have .? there
Dec 11 10:39:55 <dpb_> why what?
Dec 11 10:40:31 <kulve> doesn't .? match to any one or zero characters..?
Dec 11 10:41:21 <kulve> I think the whole substition is a bad idea there..
Dec 11 10:41:27 <kulve> one should match and print it..
Dec 11 10:43:20 <dpb_> yeah, that \? matches zero or one character, but as it isn't greedy like *, it matches the first
Dec 11 10:43:42 <dpb_> err..
Dec 11 10:43:46 <kulve> yeah, err..
Dec 11 10:44:17 <dpb_> yeah, got what you meant now.. :)
Dec 11 10:44:42 <oil_> echo $XML |  sed 's,.*<p class="welcomenote">\(.*\)</p>.*,\1,' this stil doesn't work
Dec 11 10:45:09 <oil_> that's the actu thing what I try to get
Dec 11 10:45:36 <kulve> hmm.. Does the $XML include newlines?
Dec 11 10:45:56 <oil_> can we unwrap the sed string. .* = everything, (.*\) prints what is inside the () ?
Dec 11 10:46:25 <oil_> kulve. it can, but when doing echo $XML > file , there was no newlines
Dec 11 10:46:34 <kulve> ok
Dec 11 10:47:17 <kulve> \(.*\) puts those to variable 1 and the \1 then "prints" it..
Dec 11 10:47:34 <oil_> ok. thanks
Dec 11 10:47:56 <kulve> what do you mean by "doesn't work"?
Dec 11 10:48:01 <kulve> prints nothing? Too much?
Dec 11 10:48:49 <oil_> sorry. yes. it prints after the </p> as well.. untill the last </p> on the document
Dec 11 10:49:14 <kulve> that's because you have .* inside the ()
Dec 11 10:49:25 <kulve> . is any char and * is 0-n
Dec 11 10:49:38 <kulve> replace the .* with [^<]
Dec 11 10:49:46 <kulve> then it's any character but not <
Dec 11 10:50:26 <keesj> there is also the great perl xml shell
Dec 11 10:50:37 <keesj> XSH
Dec 11 10:51:17 <jumpula> oil_: echo does that
Dec 11 10:51:29 <jumpula> you get the newlines if you use echo "$XML"
Dec 11 10:51:47 <oil_> this will print the whole document echo $XML |  sed 's,.*<p class="welcomenote">\([^<]\)</p>.*,\1,'
Dec 11 10:51:47 <oil_>  
Dec 11 10:52:04 <jumpula> without quotes, the newlines are not the only things mangled, unless you've customized the IFS
Dec 11 10:53:12 <kulve> oil_: do you have the XML somewhere..?
Dec 11 10:53:43 <kulve> oil_: and now you are missing the * from there.. Sorry, my instructions were invalid..
Dec 11 10:54:00 <oil_> jumpula: I'm using without quotes. should it be include?
Dec 11 10:54:01 <kulve> replace the \(.*\) with \([^<]\)*
Dec 11 10:54:16 <kulve> no..
Dec 11 10:54:17 <jumpula> try with echo "$XML" and see the difference
Dec 11 10:54:18 <kulve> replace the \(.*\) with \([^<]*\)
Dec 11 10:55:58 <jumpula> but yeah, xml2 should be able to change the tags for you to your favourite separator and then it's much simpler to do things with tr/cut/sed/awk
Dec 11 10:55:59 <oil_> bingo! sed 's,.*<p class="welcomenote">\([^<]*\)</p>.*,\1,'
Dec 11 10:55:59 <oil_>  this one does the work! big thanks for all!
Dec 11 10:56:45 <jumpula> that, of course, would add the dependency to xml2 if you're doing a script...
Dec 11 10:56:57 <oil_> jumpula: echo with "" does the big difference. thanks. I'll use that info later on!
Dec 11 10:57:28 <oil_> the source file is mixture with xhtml and xml and some wierd tags.
Dec 11 11:00:15 <jumpula> oil_: if you want to know why there's that difference, man bash and search for IFS :)
Dec 11 11:02:24 <oil_> jumpula: ok. checked. :)
Dec 11 11:02:52 <oil_> and lessons learned.  next time I think life is too easy, I can always get back to regular expressions ;)
Dec 11 11:04:28 <rothiel> Hello World :)
Dec 11 11:12:55 <Spakman_> when I load some programs I get a banner like "email loading...". How can I get that for when I boot my application? Is it something in the desktop file?
Dec 11 11:27:42 <lardman> morning
Dec 11 11:38:49 <Khertan_TheReal> Spakman_ > it's in the desktop file and service file ...
Dec 11 11:39:13 <Khertan_TheReal> look at /usr/share/application/hildon/applicationtocopy.desktop
Dec 11 11:39:32 <Khertan_TheReal> and /usr/share/dbus-1/services/applicationtocopy.service
Dec 11 11:39:32 <Khertan_TheReal> :)
Dec 11 11:40:22 <pupnik_> http://www.filecabi.net/video/notanotherskatedog.html  [ Not Just another Skateboarding Dog, This one is actually Good. ]
Dec 11 11:42:54 <lardman> anyone fancy some ogg vorbis dsp task decoder debugging?
Dec 11 11:43:25 <lardman> I've been staring at a piece of code and can't see what's wrong with it, I'd appreciate another pair of eyes
Dec 11 11:43:37 <derf> Man, I wish, but unfortunately people occasionally expect me to do real work.
Dec 11 11:43:48 <lardman> it's hard isn't it ;)
Dec 11 11:47:52 <lardman> If anyone has a minute, here;s the problem: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m5d69e065
Dec 11 11:49:39 <Khertan_TheReal> ouch really a good skateboarder :)
Dec 11 11:51:42 <X-Fade_> lardman: I don't see code where you set byteRead?
Dec 11 11:52:13 <lardman> no, but it does have a value as the dbg() statement returns it
Dec 11 11:52:54 <lardman> fwiw here's where it's set: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m5ba9fac6
Dec 11 11:53:15 <X-Fade_> Note that your return a size_t and byteRead is int?
Dec 11 11:53:31 <lardman> yes, the sizes of the types are all a bit screwed up I admit
Dec 11 11:53:45 <lardman> size_t should map to unsigned long I think, so it should work ok
Dec 11 11:53:47 <X-Fade_> lardman: Yeah, memcpy expects size_t too ;)
Dec 11 11:54:41 <lardman> I'll change byteRead to Uns (unsigned int) then, would that make a difference?
Dec 11 11:55:10 <X-Fade_> Nah, don't think so. It'll just silence warnings.
Dec 11 11:55:11 <lardman> I can't see that it would, in one function it has a +ve value, and in the next it is =0
Dec 11 11:55:40 <X-Fade_> Is this multiple threads?
Dec 11 11:55:46 <lardman> yes
Dec 11 11:55:58 <X-Fade_> Maybe timing related?
Dec 11 11:56:14 <X-Fade_> Some race condition?
Dec 11 11:56:16 <lardman> the two functions in the first pastebin are in the same thread, the function which sets byteRead is in another thread
Dec 11 11:56:37 <lardman> it shouldn't matter, the problem of transfering the value of byteRead occurs in the same thread
Dec 11 11:56:50 <X-Fade_> Maybe you should put a mutex around it to be sure it doesn't change in between?
Dec 11 11:56:52 <lopz> hola
Dec 11 11:57:19 <lardman> X-Fade_: ah, that's an option
Dec 11 11:58:03 <lardman> But... it should never return to =0, not until the last bytes have been read
Dec 11 11:58:05 <X-Fade_> lardman: It can actually be that you see the results of a second read while still processing the first block..
Dec 11 11:58:24 <X-Fade_> And that that second read gets 0 bytes..
Dec 11 11:59:14 <X-Fade_> lardman: You can test this by just copying the value of byteRead at the begin of ReadDataFromARM.
Dec 11 11:59:24 <lardman> it's an option, but the second read doesn't get 0 bytes
Dec 11 11:59:26 <X-Fade_> And see if it returns that value correctly..
Dec 11 11:59:57 <lardman> also, in ivorbisidec_rcv_bksnd a dbg() statement is output before the value of byteRead is changed: dbg(task, "rcv_bksnd");
Dec 11 12:00:06 <lardman> we only see this message once in the dmesg output
Dec 11 12:02:12 <lardman> the other thing is that in ReadDataFromARM() I call bkreqp() which requests data from the ARM. I then wait on a semaphore. When the data arrives and ivorbisidec_rcv_bksnd() is called by the dspgateway, it alters the value of byteRead and posts the semaphore and we continue in ReadDataFromARM
Dec 11 12:02:49 <lardman> I don't call bkreqp() again, and if I did I'd see a message.
Dec 11 12:03:29 <X-Fade_> Yeah, weird..
Dec 11 12:03:53 <lardman> perhaps the compiler doesn't like function pointers?
Dec 11 12:03:57 <X-Fade_> I would try to copy the value, just in case. But that shouldn't matter..
Dec 11 12:04:23 <lardman> I'll alter the way _get_data() works and just use the global variable and see if that works
Dec 11 12:04:44 <lardman> glad it's not just an obvious school boy error on my part though
Dec 11 12:09:19 <behrad> did any one have list of maemo base cell phone ?
Dec 11 12:09:49 <X-Fade_> behrad: Ah that is easy..
Dec 11 12:09:50 <glass_> the list is very short
Dec 11 12:09:52 <X-Fade_> none
Dec 11 12:09:54 <glass_> as it has no names at all
Dec 11 12:10:25 <behrad> X-Fade_, non !!?
Dec 11 12:10:53 <X-Fade_> behrad: Yep, maemo is only in use on internet tablets.
Dec 11 12:11:43 <behrad> X-Fade_, oh sorry its my mistake. list of internet tablets that use meamo
Dec 11 12:11:50 <BeBraw> behrad: http://www.openmoko.com/ is probably close enough
Dec 11 12:12:00 <X-Fade_> behrad: Nokia 770, N800 and N810.
Dec 11 12:12:26 <behrad> X-Fade_, BeBraw thanks
Dec 11 12:12:35 <BeBraw> hopefully N900 contains phone too...
Dec 11 12:13:46 <BeBraw> behrad: another concept you might want take a look into is google's android
Dec 11 12:14:11 <glass_> theres no devices running android out though
Dec 11 12:14:16 <glass_> nor will be in a while
Dec 11 12:15:24 <BeBraw> that fic phone is available already though
Dec 11 12:15:39 <glass_> neo1973
Dec 11 12:15:45 <glass_> yes, technically available
Dec 11 12:17:48 <BeBraw> hopefully next-gen or gen after that devices have rollable/foldable screens
Dec 11 12:18:07 <glass_> i doubt that happening in next gen..
Dec 11 12:18:22 <glass_> dunno if i'd dig that even anyways
Dec 11 12:34:37 <keesj> BeBraw: to make it possible to use anywhere else then on the floor?
Dec 11 12:35:40 <BeBraw> keesj: that's a problem for the engineer to solve. i wouldn't mind using such a device
Dec 11 12:36:46 <glass_> it would suck if you needed a hard book or something for the back
Dec 11 12:36:54 <BeBraw> another way the tech could go is augmented reality. once you put on your goggles, you have the screen there
Dec 11 12:37:23 <glass_> of course.. but thats not really practical in couple of generations of maemo devices even
Dec 11 12:49:58 <oil> huh. I found the reason why the ping times were so slow (also affects to writing shell commands). When the wlan has full powersafe, ping times are 200-300ms. when changin it to intermediate, ping times drop to 5ms, which is far better when doing scripting.
Dec 11 12:53:13 <inz> touchscreen + goggles doesn't work, you don't want fingerprints on yer cool shades ;)
Dec 11 12:57:03 <oil> btw. is there a way to 'push' the gps location to navicore with the command line?
Dec 11 12:57:55 <oil> eg. If I wish to share locations with a friend, I could get an the coordinates from the web page, start the navicore and show the location on the map?
Dec 11 12:58:00 <guardian> hi maemo
Dec 11 12:59:48 <lardman> oil: not with navicore, but there's some sort of location tag in jabber communication iirc, there was talk of implementing that in maemo-mapper
Dec 11 13:00:15 <lardman> oil: sounds cool, but I don;t know the specifics, take a look on itt at the maemo-mapper threads
Dec 11 13:03:37 <oil> lardman|lunch: ok. I was looking at the maemo mapper before. I'm thinking if there is a 'last know location' on the navicore files
Dec 11 13:04:26 <X-Fade_> oil: You better look into maemo mapper, as Navicore will never let you change anything.
Dec 11 13:06:53 <oil> X-Fade_: you are correct on that one. still looking for solution which needs as little as possible modifications and application installations
Dec 11 13:10:50 <Tak> I'm glad the tablets haven't had phones builtin - I hope nokia doesn't cave and add a phone like they did with the kb
Dec 11 13:11:39 <inz> Or if they for some reason create a phone-model, they should keep a phoneless one on the side
Dec 11 13:11:51 <oil> tak: how come? and what is kb?
Dec 11 13:12:10 <Tak> keyboard
Dec 11 13:12:24 <Tak> because it's not a damn phone!
Dec 11 13:12:52 <Tak> and I hope they don't let it degenerate into just another smartphone
Dec 11 13:13:41 <oil> if tablet would have phone and also gprs/3g/hspa connection, I would not carry my phone anymore.
Dec 11 13:13:46 <Veggen> well. I'd say it having a gsm-interface *in addition* wouldn't be *that bad*, but if it means locking down things, it would be.
Dec 11 13:14:31 <Tak> yes, and if I could irc and make calls with my penis, I wouldn't have to carry any electronics at all!
Dec 11 13:14:46 <X-Fade_> Do you really want people seeing you call with a big ass tablet against your ear? :)
Dec 11 13:14:49 <Tak> I hope that Nokia will provide me that functionality in the future.
Dec 11 13:15:05 <Veggen> X-fade: it'd have to have a good handsfree, of course :)
Dec 11 13:15:38 <Veggen> but seriously, it's not that a big deal, I don't see it replacing my cell phone anyhow, it's still a little too big for that.
Dec 11 13:15:50 <Veggen> and I don't want it smaller to be able to replace a cell phone.
Dec 11 13:15:56 <X-Fade_> I see more in using the tablet as a BT carkit for you phone. So you can see everything on your tablet. And use it as handsfree.
Dec 11 13:16:22 <X-Fade_> See who is calling, answer the call etc..
Dec 11 13:17:04 <oil> tak: your idea might be usefull when in a bar. 'Hey pretty, There is a call for you.. down there' :-D
Dec 11 13:17:35 <Tak> as tempting as it is, I'd better not pursue this line of conversation further
Dec 11 13:17:48 <oil> anyway. the combination and specially with mobile data connectivity would be great.
Dec 11 13:18:30 <oil> now we need 2 devices to get the connection on the road.
Dec 11 13:18:45 <keesj> 3 if you want gps
Dec 11 13:19:07 <X-Fade_> keesj: Nah, I use GPS from my N95 with maemo mapper ;)
Dec 11 13:19:07 <keesj> special dual output car plugs
Dec 11 13:20:00 <keesj> and how to you attach the device?
Dec 11 13:20:28 <Tak> encase it in carbonite on your dashboard
Dec 11 13:23:02 <keesj> and run canola on it
Dec 11 13:23:27 <oil> hmm. on n800/0s2008 there is a file: /var/lib/gps/gps_last_saved_report which is in data format. using strings does not give any further glue.
Dec 11 13:30:32 <Tak> is there a package for sdl-gfx on chinook yet?
Dec 11 13:31:16 <Tak> there must be; else pygame apps would be blowing up all over the place
Dec 11 13:31:32 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Dec 11 13:32:13 <Tak> morning jacques
Dec 11 13:32:14 <Tak> err
Dec 11 13:32:16 <Tak> Jaffa:
Dec 11 13:37:20 <Jaffa> :)
Dec 11 13:37:26 <Tak> hooray, nokia's not hosting the source package anymore either
Dec 11 13:37:38 <Tak> s/nokia/maemo.org/
Dec 11 13:37:39 <infobot> Tak meant: hooray, maemo.org's not hosting the source package anymore either
Dec 11 13:37:44 * Tak stab infobot 
Dec 11 13:37:52 <Jaffa> Gah, finally shop.nokia.co.uk gets N810s in, but discount codes still don't work :-(
Dec 11 13:38:00 <Tak> s/$/repeatedly/
Dec 11 13:38:17 <X-Fade_> Tak: All libs that are not by default on the device will not be available in the chinook SDK repository.
Dec 11 13:38:33 <Tak> meh, I'm just going to wait for an email saying, "The discount codes are now active"
Dec 11 13:38:40 <X-Fade_> Tak: If an application needs them, they should put them in the extras repository..
Dec 11 13:39:05 <X-Fade_> Jaffa: My guess is you need to get them at direct.nokia.com shop..
Dec 11 13:39:35 <Tak> heh, I had the impression that sdl-gfx was a nokia-added library in the extras repo
Dec 11 13:40:14 <X-Fade_> Tak: I had that discussion about libgdbm before ;)
Dec 11 13:40:47 <Tak> so...my impression is mistaken, and I should upload my sdl-gfx build to chinook extras(-devel?)?
Dec 11 13:41:18 <X-Fade_> Tak: They want to go to a situation where users should _never_ have to add the sdk repository to install software.
Dec 11 13:42:04 <X-Fade_> Tak: Yeah, your applications and all it's dependencies that are not on the device by default.
Dec 11 13:43:45 <Tak> I see.
Dec 11 13:49:43 <BeBraw> does maemo ui use double tap (click)? (haven't got the device. just curious)
Dec 11 13:50:54 <Tak> use it for what?
Dec 11 13:51:26 <BeBraw> i mean can you use double tap on some program?
Dec 11 13:51:40 <BeBraw> is it commonly used or do you use just single tap everywhere
Dec 11 13:52:51 <Tak> I would say it's rarely if ever used
Dec 11 13:53:17 <Spakman_> BeBraw: aye, I've just used it in my latest app. I had to change the double click distance and time though since my fingers weren't precise enough.
Dec 11 13:53:37 <Tak> the only time I ever end up double "clicking" is when I need to click to select something, then click again to open/launch/etc it once it's selected
Dec 11 13:54:03 * Tak upload sdlgfx
Dec 11 13:54:23 <Spakman_> I used it in a mapping program. Double clicking zooms into a certain place, like Google Maps
Dec 11 13:54:38 <BeBraw> k. thanks :)
Dec 11 13:54:54 <Tak> is there a reason single-click shouldn't do that?
Dec 11 13:55:11 <Jaffa> Tak: ditto
Dec 11 13:55:27 <Jaffa> X-Fade_: direct.nokia.com doesn't sell to the UK anymore, it redirects to shop.nokia.co.uk
Dec 11 13:55:55 <BeBraw> it's a shame the tablet doesn't provide a scroll wheel
Dec 11 13:56:10 <Jaffa> That happened about 2 weeks after the N800 went on sale, because people buying from direct.nokia.com were getting them about $50 cheaper than buying from shop.nokia.co.uk (at today's exchange rates)
Dec 11 13:56:22 <X-Fade_> Jaffa: Hmm indeed ;)
Dec 11 13:56:32 <Tak> ugh @ thought of exchange rates
Dec 11 13:56:36 <lardman> X-Fade_: I made some modifications, and the results are still odd: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m1f4201b7
Dec 11 13:56:50 <keesj> I did sdl-gfx in mud for xmoto before
Dec 11 13:58:00 <Tak> aha, it was you!
Dec 11 13:58:04 <Tak> you're behind :-P
Dec 11 13:58:25 <keesj> yes but I did not get xmoto to compile on 4.0
Dec 11 13:58:42 <Tak> hmm, why not?
Dec 11 13:59:00 <keesj> the autoconf tools are behaving strangely
Dec 11 13:59:51 <Tak> hmm - I haven't had an issue thus far
Dec 11 13:59:55 <keesj> it ends with the message arm-gnu.xxxx.g++ -V requires argument (when configure is trying to check the g++ version)
Dec 11 14:00:33 <Tak> ah, maybe it's a g++-specific problem
Dec 11 14:03:58 <X-Fade_> lardman: Maybe use global for bytesRead?
Dec 11 14:04:52 <lardman> X-Fade_: it is global - declared in the body of the file, not in a function
Dec 11 14:05:26 <lardman> X-Fade_: in the same file as the ReadDataFromARM() fn, but a different one to the _get_data() fn
Dec 11 14:05:50 <lardman> unless my globalness is not working
Dec 11 14:06:27 <X-Fade_> lardman: I see the extern. May use that in the _get_data function?
Dec 11 14:06:37 <X-Fade_> inside.
Dec 11 14:07:15 <lardman> put it inside the fn? you can't do that can you?!
Dec 11 14:12:04 <X-Fade_> lardman: Should work?
Dec 11 14:13:22 <X-Fade_> lardman: Just define it in the function.
Dec 11 14:14:35 <Tak> argh, d.m.o won't let me log in
Dec 11 14:14:49 <lardman> X-Fade_: define it in the fn as being extern? That works?
Dec 11 14:14:57 <X-Fade_> lardman: An external variable must be _defined_, exactly once, outside of any function; this sets aside storage for it. The variable must also be _declared_ in each function that wants to access it.
Dec 11 14:15:08 <lardman> ah, cool
Dec 11 14:15:22 <X-Fade_> Tak: use m.o/downloads, to be sure..
Dec 11 14:16:21 <X-Fade_> lardman: pssst: http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/lab/secondyear/cshort/docs/node17.html :)
Dec 11 14:16:48 <fatal-> is there any command line tool to launch a correct mime type handler for any given name? so that I could start mp3 playing without thinking what should take care of it?
Dec 11 14:17:01 <Tak> aha, there we are
Dec 11 14:17:04 <fatal-> just giving the file as a parameter
Dec 11 14:17:21 <lardman> X-Fade_: Thanks, I ought to do a course rather than learning from a book ;)
Dec 11 14:17:35 <lardman> X-Fade_: in any case it gives exactly the same answer
Dec 11 14:18:09 <X-Fade_> lardman: I pasted from that ;)
Dec 11 14:19:19 <lardman> :)
Dec 11 14:21:26 <X-Fade_> lardman: I think it will work a bit better for you now?
Dec 11 14:21:39 <lardman> X-Fade_: how come?
Dec 11 14:22:01 <X-Fade_> lardman: As now bytesRead actually works?
Dec 11 14:22:07 <lardman> no
Dec 11 14:22:23 <lardman> unfortunately not, same as before, it appears to have a value of 0
Dec 11 14:22:45 <X-Fade_> lardman: That zero is suspicious..
Dec 11 14:23:29 <X-Fade_> lardman: try to initialize bytesRead as another value before your function. Just to see if it actually uses it?
Dec 11 14:24:52 <lardman> the whole thing's a bit wierd really - I split the initialisation+declaration of the bytes variable and it does the same, I explicitly called the ReadDataFromARM() fn (rather than a fn pointer) and still the same
Dec 11 14:25:14 <X-Fade_> lardman: Can you post your code?
Dec 11 14:25:29 <lardman> yes
Dec 11 14:25:43 <lardman> you'll have to give me a few minutes though
Dec 11 14:25:49 <tmccrary> Is there a regular SIP client for the n810?
Dec 11 14:26:00 <Tak> gizmo?
Dec 11 14:26:15 <tmccrary> I meant one that isn't locked into a particular service
Dec 11 14:26:19 <tmccrary> "Regular"
Dec 11 14:26:33 <tmccrary> Unless they changed that in recent version of the gizmo client?
Dec 11 14:26:42 <tmccrary> I tried it a while ago on my n770 and it works okay
Dec 11 14:26:55 <tmccrary> but you had to use their servers, you couldn't use your own
Dec 11 14:27:33 <Khertan_VM> test
Dec 11 14:28:37 <Tak> FAIL
Dec 11 14:28:44 <lardman> X-Fade_: hmm, if I assign a value to byteRead in the _get_data() fn, it still ignores it
Dec 11 14:28:50 <tmccrary> Is that a no?
Dec 11 14:28:52 <Tak> I had the impression that gizmo was a generic sip client
Dec 11 14:29:05 <Tak> if not, I think ekiga has been ported
Dec 11 14:29:38 <X-Fade_> lardman: So there really is a bug in your code ;)
Dec 11 14:29:55 <lardman> you could say that :)
Dec 11 14:30:17 <X-Fade_> Passing it by value perhaps?
Dec 11 14:30:56 <lardman> it's decalred like so: extern Uns byteRead;
Dec 11 14:31:04 <lardman> presumably it shouldn't matter
Dec 11 14:31:26 <X-Fade_> insite _get_data?
Dec 11 14:31:29 <X-Fade_> inside..
Dec 11 14:32:03 <lardman> I've tried both inside and outside, same in both cases
Dec 11 14:32:36 <X-Fade_> lardman: You do include the header exporting the var in the other file, right?
Dec 11 14:33:58 <lardman> yes
Dec 11 14:34:13 <lardman> http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/vorbisdec/
Dec 11 14:34:30 <lardman> it's still uploading though
Dec 11 14:35:00 <lardman> the files in question are dsptask_ivorbisdec.c and vorbisfile.c
Dec 11 14:35:00 <X-Fade_> what files should I be looking at?
Dec 11 14:35:04 <X-Fade_> ah ;)
Dec 11 14:37:55 <X-Fade_> lardman: I don't see a .h file that exports your byteRead?
Dec 11 14:38:35 <lardman> it's inline in the file
Dec 11 14:39:13 <X-Fade_> lardman: But how would vorbisfile.c know about it?
Dec 11 14:39:26 <lardman> L76 in vorbisfile.c, L50 in dsptask_ivorbisdec.c
Dec 11 14:40:25 <lardman> I'd not planned on needing the variable in any other source file, hence the lack of a header to clean things up
Dec 11 14:40:54 <X-Fade_> lardman: It doesn't get in vorbisfile.c by magic? Are you seeing warnings at compile time?
Dec 11 14:42:06 <lardman> it's on line 76...
Dec 11 14:42:25 <X-Fade_> yeah, but there is no header exporting that..
Dec 11 14:42:35 <X-Fade_> So it just creates an int locally..
Dec 11 14:42:59 <lardman> so what would a header do differently?
Dec 11 14:43:14 <X-Fade_> Actually give you the value?
Dec 11 14:43:25 <lardman> I thought that by using extern, you tell the linker to resolve the name at link time?
Dec 11 14:44:01 <wumpus> headers don't export anything, they import (using extern :P)
Dec 11 14:44:50 <lardman> If I declare it in one file, I don't need a header there, then I should place "extern ..." in a header to import into another file?
Dec 11 14:45:11 <lardman> how is that different from not using a header and placing the extern statement in the .c file?
Dec 11 14:45:13 <wumpus> well, if you want to use the same variable from another file, you should use extern, yes
Dec 11 14:45:23 <wumpus> uh, none
Dec 11 14:46:01 <wumpus> you could paste the content of all header files into every program and it'd still work, there's nothing magical about them
Dec 11 14:46:18 <Tak> I vote that you paste all the content in every file
Dec 11 14:46:26 <Tak> you get hyperredundancy that way
Dec 11 14:46:28 <lardman> my point exactly, I don't have a head file as I didn't expect to need to extern this var
Dec 11 14:46:53 <lardman> but... if there's a problem with doing it this way I'd like to head about it (and not the unmaintainability thing)
Dec 11 14:46:58 <wumpus> Tak: that'd be very useful, at least if one file gets corrupted, most still compile!
Dec 11 14:47:33 <wumpus> you should use a different copy of gcc too for each file, just in case :P
Dec 11 14:47:44 <lardman> if only I could use gcc....
Dec 11 14:48:04 <derf> lardman: Dump the assembly output.
Dec 11 14:48:04 <wumpus> ah yeah, dsp
Dec 11 14:48:06 <derf> Seriously.
Dec 11 14:48:16 <lardman> derf: yes, good idea
Dec 11 14:48:29 <lardman> X-Fade_: do you think there's something I've done wrong with the declaration?
Dec 11 14:52:04 <Jaffa> Next version of tablet-encode also has a simple GUI version: http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/tablet-encode.html#screenshots
Dec 11 14:55:25 <lardman> got to go back to work - long lunch break, will continue there, bbiab
Dec 11 15:03:53 <fatal-> hildon_mime_open_file() method seems to exist at some maemo release, apparently. cant find libhildonmime from anywhere, though
Dec 11 15:04:23 <lopz> re :P
Dec 11 15:06:25 <fatal-> err.. hildon_mime_open_file seems to be rather recent stuff; any idea is there anything that would work out of the box on an n770?
Dec 11 15:06:59 <inz> s/hildon/osso/?
Dec 11 15:07:28 <fatal-> hmm
Dec 11 15:07:33 <fatal-> such a thing seems to exist
Dec 11 15:07:35 <Fatal> gmm
Dec 11 15:07:38 <inz> in libossomime that is
Dec 11 15:07:43 <Tak> isn't there something like maemo-launcher for that kind of thing?
Dec 11 15:07:45 <fatal-> ok, will try that first
Dec 11 15:08:01 <inz> Tak, maemo-launcher is used to speed up launching of things
Dec 11 15:08:27 <fatal-> well, if there is a standalone proggy that can do mime type handing for any file, please tell me :)
Dec 11 15:08:33 <inz> Tak, the "binaries" are actually shared objects, the launcher dlopens them and calls their main()
Dec 11 15:09:18 <X-Fade_> Hmm this is a nice design: http://www.nokia.com/A4707477
Dec 11 15:09:25 <Tak> I see...
Dec 11 15:09:32 <X-Fade_> Should be a pretty high resolution device?
Dec 11 15:10:33 <Tak> X-Fade_: it's a tricorder!
Dec 11 15:10:40 <X-Fade_> Tak: Yep ;)
Dec 11 15:10:56 <X-Fade_> Tak: including scanner device ;)
Dec 11 15:12:36 <inz> Tak, try for example ls -l /usr/bin/osso_pdfviewer, it should be a symlink to maemo-invoker
Dec 11 15:13:34 <inz> Tak, maemo-invoker then tells maemo-launcher (over a unix socket) to run osso_pdfviewer.launch
Dec 11 15:19:39 <hexa> ho yeah crime la connection inet du bureau roskc asteur hehe 10-15mbps de ubuntu.com :)
Dec 11 15:19:57 <hexa> ca fait bien un dist-upgrade ca ;)
Dec 11 15:20:05 <Khertan_VM> pffff
Dec 11 15:20:07 <hexa> oops wrong channel sorry!
Dec 11 15:21:04 <Khertan_VM> hexa nop ... wrong chan ... but i know now why my x86 scratchbox target don t upgrade
Dec 11 15:21:27 <Khertan_VM> it was too old ... and dist-upgrade fix it ... thx :)
Dec 11 15:21:35 <hexa> hahah :)
Dec 11 15:21:44 <Khertan_VM> it s when i see your post then i ve think of dist-upgrade
Dec 11 15:21:58 <hexa> lol butterfly effect :)
Dec 11 15:22:00 <Khertan_VM> mais tres jolie connection de ton bureau :)
Dec 11 15:22:28 <hexa> Khertan_VM: hehe en effet.. ca fait changement du 100k/sec j'avais.. du quebec ou france?
Dec 11 15:22:56 <Khertan_TheReal> frankreich :)
Dec 11 15:23:23 <Khertan_TheReal> sorry too many vm on my post
Dec 11 15:23:29 <hexa> hehe k :) .. Quebec ici
Dec 11 15:23:36 <inz> hexa, 10-15 millibits per seconds, wow, that's slow ;)
Dec 11 15:23:44 <inz> -s
Dec 11 15:24:10 <hexa> inz: hhe I mean Mbps :)
Dec 11 15:26:48 <lardman> derf: disassembled source is going to take some time to work out
Dec 11 15:26:49 <|R> ahah qu'est ce qui se passe?
Dec 11 15:27:34 <Khertan_VM> and finaly ... my scratchbox x86 is broken ... :(
Dec 11 15:27:37 <hexa> |R:  hehe je me suis juste trompe de chan..
Dec 11 15:27:38 <Khertan_VM> a bit more
Dec 11 15:27:49 <hexa> Khertan_VM: damm :(
Dec 11 15:28:13 <Khertan_VM> dpkg: error processing base-files (--configure): gurk
Dec 11 15:28:25 <|R> :)
Dec 11 15:33:39 <Disconnect> is there an sdk for OSX yet?
Dec 11 15:35:34 <zoran> yes, in apple headquoters
Dec 11 15:44:09 <lardman> I seem to remember having some troubles with "extern struct dsptask task_ivorbisidec", but can't remember what they were....
Dec 11 15:47:16 <Spakman_> Khertan_VM: do you develop python-runtime for the tablets?
Dec 11 15:48:05 <lardman> hmm, I wonder if it's converting Uns into something other than what I expect - I can't see a header that would define that, but no compilation failure
Dec 11 15:48:38 <Khertan_VM> Spakman_: no i m just an user of python-runtime :)
Dec 11 15:48:53 <Spakman_> ah, OK.
Dec 11 15:49:02 <kpel> hi all
Dec 11 15:49:06 <Khertan_VM> Disconnect: yes if you use VMWare image
Dec 11 15:49:33 <Disconnect> yah downloading that now. royal pita tho.
Dec 11 15:50:54 <Khertan_VM> Spakman_: but i m trying to debug python hildondesktop binding
Dec 11 16:09:45 <Khertan_VM> is there a way to make a transparent gtk label ?
Dec 11 16:18:44 <Khertan_TheReal> is there ruby dev here ?
Dec 11 16:19:50 <Khertan_TheReal> i m learning ruby... and i want know if there is a simple way to get method available for an object ? like 'dir()' in python ?
Dec 11 16:21:57 <Spakman_> I'm not sure what dir() does, but my_object.methods will return the methods on an object
Dec 11 16:22:21 <Spakman_> but methods.sort might be nicer
Dec 11 16:24:29 <Khertan_TheReal> oh ... thanks
Dec 11 16:24:54 <Khertan_TheReal> dir() in python list methods, properties of an object
Dec 11 16:25:24 <Khertan_TheReal> thanks Spakman_
Dec 11 16:26:15 <Khertan_TheReal> grrrr i don't know why my home applet disappear at random interval ....
Dec 11 16:39:59 <Khertan_TheReal> ouch ... just using my hildon desktop applet (which just show a gtk.label("test")) give me
Dec 11 16:40:13 <Khertan_TheReal> 23 Mb consummed by hildon-desktop
Dec 11 16:40:24 <Khertan_TheReal> 6Mb/127Mb free
Dec 11 16:40:25 <Khertan_TheReal> ouch
Dec 11 16:40:33 <kulve> check the caches too..
Dec 11 16:40:40 <Khertan_TheReal> the caches ?
Dec 11 16:40:57 <lardman> does top correctly report thread memory usage too?
Dec 11 16:40:59 <kulve> I have 2gigs of mem on my desktop computer and most of it is in the cache..
Dec 11 16:41:21 <lardman> i.e. is shared thread memory is reported more than once?
Dec 11 16:41:40 <kulve> Khertan_TheReal: I don't remember which tool showed the caches too, maybe top or free. That memory is also freeable is something needs it.
Dec 11 16:41:59 <X-Fade_> Khertan_TheReal: Linux is not Windows. Linux uses all not used memory as filesystem cache. So free doesn't tell you much..
Dec 11 16:42:07 <Khertan_TheReal> top and /proc/meminfo show it
Dec 11 16:42:19 <Khertan_TheReal> but i vent see it ... not enough large screen :)
Dec 11 16:42:22 <lardman> kulve: how familiar are you with gstreamer?
Dec 11 16:42:32 <kulve> lardman: a bit, not and expret
Dec 11 16:42:34 <kulve> expert
Dec 11 16:42:40 <kulve> an
Dec 11 16:42:41 <Khertan_TheReal> but still 23Mb for hildon-desktop ... not very small
Dec 11 16:42:57 <kulve> Khertan_TheReal: that includes all the plugins in home, nav and status bar
Dec 11 16:43:06 <fysa> any decent VNC client for chinook yet?
Dec 11 16:43:13 <kulve> and if that includes parts of the libraries loaded in the memory..
Dec 11 16:43:21 <lardman> kulve: hmm, I was wondering what would be the best way to encapsulate the dsp task
Dec 11 16:43:26 <Khertan_TheReal> pffff my plugin is really buggy ... hildon-desktop crash anytimes !
Dec 11 16:43:33 <kulve> Khertan_TheReal: i.e. The memory stuff is complicated, don't make hasty conclusions :)
Dec 11 16:44:06 <kulve> lardman: encapsulate?
Dec 11 16:44:25 <kulve> lardman: I'm now leaving to home, but I can comment after an hour more about the issue..
Dec 11 16:44:34 <lardman> atm it takes 2 arg input & output files
Dec 11 16:45:14 <lardman> ok, well i still have to figure out why my global's not working/fn pointer called fn doesn't return values, but was wondering whether to shift to shared mem rather than ipbuf that I'm using atm
Dec 11 16:45:26 <lardman> I'll have a read of the gstreamer tremor wrapper and see what it uses
Dec 11 16:45:44 <lardman> that sounds wrong, see what will fit sounds better
Dec 11 16:49:59 <Tak> IME top shows shared memory more than once
Dec 11 16:50:21 <Khertan_TheReal> IME ?
Dec 11 16:51:01 <Tak> in my experience
Dec 11 16:51:10 <skibur_> ok, where can I submit a bug?
Dec 11 16:52:07 <lardman> about top?
Dec 11 16:52:08 <skibur_> I was using "Notes" application with iGO bluetooth stowaway keyboard and it just crashed.
Dec 11 16:52:43 <lardman> is Notes a built-in?
Dec 11 16:52:47 <skibur_> I was able to type about 5 lines and then it cashed with"Internal error occur in application"
Dec 11 16:52:50 <lardman> if so use bugs.maemo.org
Dec 11 16:52:51 <skibur_> yes
Dec 11 16:53:02 <skibur_> ok thanks
Dec 11 16:53:10 <lardman> can the fault be repeated?
Dec 11 16:53:23 <skibur_> restesting
Dec 11 16:53:27 <skibur_> retesting
Dec 11 16:53:30 <skibur_> ...
Dec 11 16:53:35 * Jaffa learnt to save often with Notes.
Dec 11 16:53:45 <Jaffa> Or, in fact, any data entry on any Maemo application.
Dec 11 16:53:52 <lardman> Jaffa: does it output anything over dbus when if falls over?
Dec 11 16:54:26 <dragorn> skibur_: I've had it crash before too using the 810 keyboard
Dec 11 16:54:26 * Jaffa can't remember checking, actually. A lot of these prejudices were based on OS2005, it seemed a lot better in OS2007
Dec 11 16:55:11 <lardman> I'm not sure i like these generic error messages, would be far better to see the gory details (make debugging easier anyway)
Dec 11 16:55:34 <lardman> ah yes, i seem to remember that the loader logs failure reasons
Dec 11 16:55:42 <lardman> so they might be logged to syslog
Dec 11 16:56:44 <Khertan_TheReal> bye
Dec 11 16:57:13 <skibur_> o ok
Dec 11 16:57:24 <skibur_> I'm using N800 - OS2008
Dec 11 16:57:52 <skibur_> must be a buffer or stack not big enough :/
Dec 11 16:58:12 <lardman> it might not like the words you type
Dec 11 16:58:17 <lardman> could be anything with that message ;)
Dec 11 16:58:21 <skibur_> lol
Dec 11 16:58:41 <lardman> you weren't typing "matrix" perchance...? ;)
Dec 11 16:58:59 <skibur_> maybe spell check was like huh?  Bomb... crashes! :P
Dec 11 16:59:44 <lardman> I'd be tempted to do that, embed a grammar checker and crash and burn everytime someone misused their/they're/there :)
Dec 11 17:00:00 <lardman> or insure/ensure for that matter ;)
Dec 11 17:00:09 <skibur_> or alot/a lot/allot
Dec 11 17:00:11 <dragorn> skibur_: No, I wasn't typing a large document when it crashed for me
Dec 11 17:00:24 <skibur_> hum
Dec 11 17:00:39 <skibur_> I can't recreate it
Dec 11 17:01:18 <lardman> not really worth reporting as a bug then
Dec 11 17:02:49 <dragorn> I had a vague suspicion that it was linked to multiple keystrokes in too short a time
Dec 11 17:02:54 <dragorn> but couldn't recreate it either
Dec 11 17:04:40 <skibur_> yeah
Dec 11 17:17:47 <skibur_> hum...
Dec 11 17:18:18 <skibur_> no F1 - F12 keys on the iGO bluetooth stowaway keyboard?
Dec 11 17:35:14 <lardman> bye
Dec 11 18:00:20 <lopz> bye
Dec 11 18:30:07 <Khertan_n800> Hi
Dec 11 18:31:10 <Khertan_n800> When i do a GLib::Timeout.add(2000) in my home applet in ruby
Dec 11 18:31:37 <Khertan_n800> Home-desktop crash when i unselect my applet
Dec 11 18:31:53 <Tak> are you removing the timeout when you're cleaning up?
Dec 11 18:32:18 <Khertan_n800> No i dont know how to do this
Dec 11 18:32:40 <Khertan_n800> As i don t know when my applet instance is removed
Dec 11 18:33:15 <Khertan_n800> Is there a destroy methode called in ruby as initialize ?
Dec 11 18:33:49 <elb> no
Dec 11 18:34:05 <Khertan_n800> Arg ...
Dec 11 18:34:18 <Khertan_n800> How can i do so ?
Dec 11 18:34:45 <elb> destroy things explicitly where you need a destructor
Dec 11 18:35:19 <Khertan_n800> (Irc in the subway !!!! YEAH :) )
Dec 11 18:35:50 <Tak> is there a doc for the ruby home applet api?
Dec 11 18:37:28 <Khertan_n800> I vent found it ....
Dec 11 18:38:58 <Tak> it looks like the C api allows you to specify methods to be called on load and unload
Dec 11 18:39:14 <Tak> I suspect the ruby api will allow you to do the same
Dec 11 18:39:29 <Khertan_n800> hum   do u know the name in c ?
Dec 11 18:39:35 <Tak> (I'm looking at http://tinyurl.com/22yu28 )
Dec 11 18:40:14 <Tak> I suspect he's abstracted away the first three arguments into one
Dec 11 18:40:37 <Khertan_n800> I come back in 15 min ...
Dec 11 18:40:42 <Khertan_n800> Thanks
Dec 11 19:17:04 <khertan> re
Dec 11 19:49:19 <khertan> someone have already done home applet in ruby ? i need some help.
Dec 11 20:16:46 <lopz> re
Dec 11 20:18:27 <mariorz> would it be possible to rewrite the onscreen keyboard to remove some keys/make others bigger?
Dec 11 20:19:05 <Tak> mariorz: the keyboards are defined by the .vkb files in /usr/share/keyboards - they're modifiable
Dec 11 20:19:24 <mariorz> realllyy cool
Dec 11 20:20:11 <Tak> the moderately bad news: they're in a (mostly known) binary format
Dec 11 20:20:29 <mariorz> so how would one go about editing them?
Dec 11 20:21:08 <Tak> you could use a hex editor, or you could use one of the existing tools to dump them to xml, then edit the xml
Dec 11 20:21:44 <Tak> khertan: what arguments does register_plugin take?
Dec 11 20:22:31 <mariorz> Tak: would you have any linkage by chance to this tools?
Dec 11 20:23:21 <Tak> http://idoru.metadreams.net/~kimju/src/maemo/decode_vkb/
Dec 11 20:24:05 <mariorz> thanks
Dec 11 20:25:36 <Tak> also of use may be http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_him_bora.html
Dec 11 20:25:47 <Tak> and http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/26609
Dec 11 20:26:29 <mariorz> awesome, thanks :)
Dec 11 20:27:03 * Tak implementing decode_vkb in ruby right now; the info is still fresh
Dec 11 20:28:21 <mariorz> really? could you share that?
Dec 11 20:28:57 <mariorz> oh implementING
Dec 11 20:29:04 <Tak> hehe, I will share it
Dec 11 20:29:21 <mariorz> cool
Dec 11 20:29:35 <Tak> the perl version works well, though - I'm only doing this so I don't have to add an extra dependency to my (ruby) project
Dec 11 20:30:03 <mariorz> whats your project?
Dec 11 20:30:36 <Tak> a sdl-based virtual keyboard using rubygame
Dec 11 20:32:18 <mariorz> sounds interesting
Dec 11 20:32:23 <mariorz> how come rubygame?
Dec 11 20:33:08 <Tak> because I'd just discovered rubygame and wanted to do something interesting with it
Dec 11 20:33:35 <mariorz> nice
Dec 11 20:33:45 <mariorz> i'd love to try it out when its ready
Dec 11 20:34:18 <Tak> it's basically a library for rubygame devs to use to add keyboard input to their rubygame apps
Dec 11 20:34:38 <mariorz> i see
Dec 11 20:34:40 <Tak> I expect approximately zero people to use it
Dec 11 20:35:00 <mariorz> lol
Dec 11 20:35:13 <Tak> but it's there if anybody wants to
Dec 11 20:35:26 <Tak> afaik it's the only vkb for an sdl-based toolkit
Dec 11 20:35:55 <mariorz> wouldnt it also be less useful for the new devices?
Dec 11 20:36:20 <mariorz> im on a n770 tough
Dec 11 20:37:35 <Tak> for the n810s, I guess
Dec 11 20:38:01 <Tak> although vkb still offers a layout flexibility that the hw kb doesn't
Dec 11 20:51:25 <khertan> tak > <Tak> khertan: what arguments does register_plugin take?
Dec 11 20:51:44 <khertan> it s seem it s take only one arguments, a class
Dec 11 20:52:04 <khertan> http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/ruby-maemo/Examples/ruby_home_plugin.rb.txt
Dec 11 20:52:34 <Tak> yeah, I saw the example - I was hoping it took a few optional method arguments
Dec 11 20:56:07 <maddler> evening all
Dec 11 20:58:10 <khertan> passing argument doesn't raise error
Dec 11 20:58:23 <khertan> but doesn't seem to do anything
Dec 11 21:00:34 <Tak> hm.
Dec 11 21:00:55 <Tak> I'll look at the source later, if I get a chance
Dec 11 21:01:15 <Tak> obviously if alterego were around, he could answer in 47ms
Dec 11 21:03:53 <khertan> maybe less :)
Dec 11 21:04:05 <khertan> but haven't see him today ...
Dec 11 21:04:57 <khertan> i'm trying to look at the source too but my wife keep disturbing me ...
Dec 11 21:05:41 <Tak> haha
Dec 11 21:06:09 <Tak> women, always wanting you to do stuff with them instead of sit around and code ;-P
Dec 11 21:06:36 <khertan> always the same things ...
Dec 11 21:06:44 <khertan> and many times useless things
Dec 11 21:11:28 <khertan> http://modest.garage.maemo.org/repos/modest-chinook.install
Dec 11 21:11:31 <pupnik_> http://webilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/multi-ecrans.jpg  Nice music studio - multiscreen
Dec 11 21:12:41 <Vulcanis> I love how it has the crappy mouse and KB with those screens
Dec 11 21:21:20 <disq> looking for an up to date mencoder binary for macosx
Dec 11 21:46:28 <GeneralAntilles> disq, I stole the one from ffmpegx.
Dec 11 21:46:51 <disq> i'm using darwinports to build one right now
Dec 11 21:47:09 <GeneralAntilles> That was broken when I tried about two months ago.
Dec 11 21:56:51 <disq> yes, that worked better
Dec 11 22:19:05 <guerby> hi, I've installed ogg support for OS2008 but when I click on a .ogg file from the file manager it proposes me to choose an application to open it. i choose media player and it works but I wonder if there's a way to get rid of the question
Dec 11 22:22:11 <ds3> arrg. so wish nokia put in a little reset hole like palm did on the treo
Dec 11 22:22:52 <kala> N770 has a reset hole?
Dec 11 22:23:22 <ds3> the 770 does? I am refering the N800. pulling out batteries to reset when messing with the kernel is getting old
Dec 11 22:23:30 <Jaffa> ah, kernel hacking.
Dec 11 22:23:47 <ds3> *nod*
Dec 11 22:24:03 <ds3> prehaps a developers cable for the N800? *hint* *hint* =)
Dec 11 22:38:34 <pupnik_> guerby: good question - search internettablettalk.com
Dec 11 22:39:18 <guerby> pupnik_, I've looked at the ogg stuff but it's mostly about the ogg theora / W3C / Nokia fiasco than anything else of technical interest :)
Dec 11 22:39:32 <guerby> pupnik_, (on internettablettalk)
Dec 11 22:39:37 <pupnik_> ok
Dec 11 22:39:53 <lardman> evening chaps
Dec 11 22:39:55 <pupnik_> then maemo wiki?
Dec 11 22:40:00 * pupnik_ salutes
Dec 11 22:40:02 <halley> guerby, I'd start searching for things like "mime types" not ogg specifically.
Dec 11 22:40:02 <derf> guerby: The person you want to talk to is kulve (author of Ogg Support).
Dec 11 22:40:28 <wumpus> did nokia already realize that ogg isn't propatiary? :')
Dec 11 22:41:33 <halley> Save it for the forums, this is a fruitless topic, wumpus.  ;)
Dec 11 22:41:45 <wumpus> I was just kidding
Dec 11 22:42:50 <lardman> aaaarrrghh
Dec 11 22:42:55 <lardman> that's much better
Dec 11 22:43:48 <guerby> halley, derf, thx.
Dec 11 22:51:27 <goortza> Does anyone know if Stardict and Whitestork have been ported to OS2008?
Dec 11 22:54:09 <lardman> it just gets stranger and stranger
Dec 11 22:54:36 <halley> Talking to oneself is odd; typing to oneself in chat is odder.
Dec 11 22:55:08 <lardman> now my dbg() statement won't print the value of byteRead, but if I assign that value to another unsigned int it will display the value of that var, the difference being the 2nd one is local
Dec 11 22:55:25 <lardman> halley: staves off madness for a little while longer
Dec 11 22:59:54 <lardman> damn! it all comes down to the fact that dbg() can't return the value of long
Dec 11 23:00:19 <lardman> so all along the variables have been correct, but dbg() just fails and reports 0 instead of the value
Dec 11 23:02:28 <ds3> DOH
Dec 11 23:02:51 <derf> lardman: :)
Dec 11 23:02:53 <lardman> so much for the docs saying it's format string is the same as printf() type functions
Dec 11 23:03:04 <lardman> s/it's/its
Dec 11 23:03:14 <ds3> it is the same except when it is not ;)
Dec 11 23:03:21 <lardman> :) yeah
Dec 11 23:03:34 <lardman> at least I'd not quite gone mad
Dec 11 23:04:47 <ds3> I wonder if the DSP part you are debugging is accessible via the normal debugging port on the ARM
Dec 11 23:05:06 <lardman> no idea
Dec 11 23:06:42 <ds3> that dsp is a stock C5500, IIRC?
Dec 11 23:08:08 <lardman> yes I think so, difficult to work out the exact subversion of the c55 though
Dec 11 23:08:16 <shacka1> lardman, the sdk has *nothing* for debugging ?
Dec 11 23:08:49 <lardman> If you use the Ti bridge then yes, for the dspgateway, no (afaik)
Dec 11 23:09:20 <shacka1> ouch
Dec 11 23:09:56 <lardman> it just adds to the fun and excitement ;)
Dec 11 23:14:27 <lardman> anyway, I'm making progress, I'm now (possibly, depending on whether it's actually a long misreported) up to bytes=oy->fifo_fill=0 (when it should read 1024)
Dec 11 23:14:52 <pupnik_> oy
Dec 11 23:15:02 <derf> Hooray!
Dec 11 23:15:03 <_|Nix|_> Is maemo-mapper available for Chinook?
Dec 11 23:15:21 <halley> Yes, but with limitations.
Dec 11 23:15:28 <_|Nix|_> How so?
Dec 11 23:15:48 <halley> It can't enable N810's builtin GPS nicely, for one.
Dec 11 23:16:01 <_|Nix|_> halley: I just want to install the package.
Dec 11 23:16:06 <_|Nix|_> Where can I find it?
Dec 11 23:16:37 <halley> maemo.org/downloads/OS2008 is always a good place to start...
Dec 11 23:16:56 <halley> I also wish the dataset were google maps, not whatever European maps it has.  US coverage is pitiful.
Dec 11 23:17:17 <_|Nix|_> You can add Google Maps to Maemo Mapper, AFAIK.
Dec 11 23:17:38 <halley> I couldn't see how in the interface, but haven't tried seriously.
Dec 11 23:17:43 <_|Nix|_> WTF ?! http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008 --> Server Error
Dec 11 23:18:01 <_|Nix|_> halley: You can download map repositories.
Dec 11 23:18:18 <halley> Did I mention maemo.org is running on an N770 through USB?
Dec 11 23:18:29 <_|Nix|_> :o)
Dec 11 23:18:41 <GeneralAntilles> It is google maps, halley.
Dec 11 23:18:56 <GeneralAntilles> and I'm fairly certain it can enable the N810's GPS on it's own now, too.
Dec 11 23:19:14 <_|Nix|_> I don't think it's on maemo.org/downloads :o(
Dec 11 23:19:21 <_|Nix|_> So, what's the repo for it?
Dec 11 23:19:28 <lardman> derf: I see an interesting thing here
Dec 11 23:19:48 <derf> lardman: ?
Dec 11 23:19:55 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.gnuite.com/
Dec 11 23:19:59 <lardman> derf: _get_next_page calls _get_data calls my read fn and asks for 1024 bytes
Dec 11 23:20:13 <derf> Okay.
Dec 11 23:20:19 <halley> apt-get update often freezes and duplicates sources.list entries for some reason.
Dec 11 23:20:29 <_|Nix|_> OK, it's in Extras, it seems.
Dec 11 23:20:32 <lardman> derf: but these are 16bit bytes, so when it returns the value of bytes=oy->fifo_fill it's twice as large
Dec 11 23:20:45 <lardman> derf: as it has presumably worked that out
Dec 11 23:20:55 <wumpus> 16 bit bytes? uh oh
Dec 11 23:21:06 <lardman> tell me about it :)
Dec 11 23:21:21 <GeneralAntilles> halley, if you go to the Map Repositories settings you can download the Google and VirtualEarth stuff.
Dec 11 23:21:23 <derf> lardman: This is where my knowledge of what systems without an 8-bit char actually do fails me.
Dec 11 23:21:55 <derf> When you feed the DSP "bytes", are they two bytes packed in one char, or one byte per char, using twice the memory?
Dec 11 23:21:58 <lardman> derf: I'm just wondering if I should actually interpret the amount of data that  _get_data() asks for as 8bit bytes (and therefore halve whatever it says)
Dec 11 23:22:24 <lardman> byte=char=16bits iirc
Dec 11 23:23:04 <lardman> although I guess I should talk about chars not bytes as they are usually 8bits?
Dec 11 23:23:12 <derf> lardman: Somewhere, the Ogg bitpacker operates on a fundamental unit of 8 bits.
Dec 11 23:23:24 <lardman> ah no, the DSP manual says bytes are also 16bit
Dec 11 23:23:34 <Zippy> Greetings everyone!  ;o)
Dec 11 23:23:46 <derf> So the things in the _file_ you are playing are 8 bits.
Dec 11 23:23:54 <lardman> derf: yes, that's fine, and I'm glad to see that it's worked out how large the byte is on the DSP, just wondering about when it asks for data
Dec 11 23:24:07 <lardman> derf: I'll keep it in mind and perhaps alter it later on
Dec 11 23:24:35 <derf> I can't answer the question until you can tell me how the 8-bit data from the file is actually arranged in memory on the DSP.
Dec 11 23:25:24 <lardman> 16bit data is arranged like 16bit little endian data on an ARM
Dec 11 23:25:47 <lardman> 32bit data is arranged as two chunks of LE 16bits, but with the chunks arranged in BE order
Dec 11 23:25:59 <lardman> just to make things even more exciting
Dec 11 23:26:04 <zerojay> Adblock+ working for anyone?
Dec 11 23:26:08 <derf> Good grief. I didn't think anyone still used mixed-endian words.
Dec 11 23:26:08 <halley> My apt-fu is rusty; how can I ask for just an update of maemo-mapper?
Dec 11 23:26:41 <goortza> halley: apt-get install maemo-mapper I think
Dec 11 23:26:54 <|R> zerojay : not me...
Dec 11 23:26:55 <halley> install twice isn't redundant?
Dec 11 23:27:47 <Zippy> Pop quiz guys.  Is there any way to remove the default block cursor when using X-Term?
Dec 11 23:28:23 <goortza> halley: I guess you can think of it as installing a newer version of the package. Personally I would have allowed an argument to upgrade
Dec 11 23:28:38 <halley> Yeah, too used to rpm semantics there.
Dec 11 23:30:42 <GeneralAntilles> Just do it in app manager.
Dec 11 23:30:51 <GeneralAntilles> zerojay, it's not working for me.
Dec 11 23:31:23 <halley> I have the latest maemomapper, according to the apt, but still no GPS enabling.
Dec 11 23:31:35 <halley> Maybe there's a newer upstream that's not on the repo.
Dec 11 23:31:39 <GeneralAntilles> There's a thread on ITT about it.
Dec 11 23:32:03 <GeneralAntilles> Seems like there may have been something mildly non-obvious involved.
Dec 11 23:33:39 <lardman> derf: oggbyte_read1() is returning 0 all the time
Dec 11 23:33:49 <lardman> derf: looks like that's the issue
Dec 11 23:34:30 <derf> lardman: Okay. I'll try to look at the code later tonight and see what 16-bit byte problems could be causing something like that.
Dec 11 23:34:47 <lardman> derf: you have the url of the code I'm using?
Dec 11 23:34:56 <lardman> which may be modified
Dec 11 23:35:16 <derf> It's somewhere in my scrollback.
Dec 11 23:35:33 <lardman> cool, thanks
Dec 11 23:39:24 <lardman> derf: it looks like, amongst other things, the code I have doesn't have ptr in oggbyte_buffer
Dec 11 23:44:53 <Zippy> Is there any way to have the cursor not be displayed while using X Terminal?
Dec 11 23:46:18 <GeneralAntilles> The cursor isn't displayed in xterm.
Dec 11 23:46:55 <Zippy> Yeah, the white block thingabobber.
Dec 11 23:47:25 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, THAT cursor.
Dec 11 23:47:30 <Zippy> Yep.  :o)
Dec 11 23:53:52 <Zippy> So is there a way General?
Dec 11 23:54:20 <GeneralAntilles> Dunno
Dec 11 23:54:23 <GeneralAntilles> Why would you want to?
Dec 11 23:54:46 <Zippy> It's kind of messing up the graphics when using Telnet.  That's all.
Dec 11 23:54:56 <Zippy> It's nothing critical, just looking to see if there's a fix.
Dec 11 23:56:50 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, right, telnet.
Dec 11 23:56:53 <GeneralAntilles> Not one of my use cases.
Dec 11 23:58:08 <Zippy> Yeah, I'm somewhat behind in the times I guess.
Dec 12 00:18:38 <lardman> night all
Dec 12 00:20:42 <_berto_> oops
Dec 12 00:21:12 <_berto_> sorry
Dec 12 00:47:34 <ds3> whoa this looks nice -
Dec 12 00:47:40 <ds3> http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=TS32GSSD25-M&cat=HDD&cpc=JAD
Dec 12 00:48:32 <derf> Now, if they can just fit it in a micro SD form factor.
Dec 12 00:49:01 <ds3> just use the USB port :P
Dec 12 00:49:50 <ds3> btw, anyone tried a SDIO GPS on the N800?
Dec 12 00:50:09 <ds3> it is pointed the wrong way for normal use but nevertheless...
Dec 12 00:57:32 <acydlord> sure havent
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 12 02:59:57 2007