**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 15 02:59:57 2007 Dec 15 03:26:16 bye Dec 15 03:30:40 discount code not active on nokia.de yet Dec 15 03:53:13 <[pablo]> anyone have any problems with addblock plus configuration link not showing up in the browser? Dec 15 04:12:39 [pablo]: n800, n810? Dec 15 04:14:00 <[pablo]> n810 Dec 15 04:15:26 "addblock"? disable arithmetic? Dec 15 04:15:50 <[pablo]> it's a firefox extension Dec 15 04:16:12 I think you mean "ad" as in advertisement. Dec 15 04:16:12 <[pablo]> 'adblock' Dec 15 04:17:15 <[pablo]> thank you for pointing out my typo, I appreciate it Dec 15 04:21:41 heh sorry i don't have OS2008 Dec 15 04:21:48 how are your impressions of the N810 [pablo] ? Dec 15 04:22:40 <[pablo]> i love it Dec 15 04:22:51 <[pablo]> use it daily, goes everywhere with me Dec 15 04:23:15 <[pablo]> i just wish always on data connections weren't so rediculously priced, it would be infinantly more useful Dec 15 04:25:29 yes Dec 15 04:25:45 is the screen good outdoors? Dec 15 04:27:30 Yeah, it's pretty good in bright light. Dec 15 04:50:11 it's fun having flash9 in opera on 770 Dec 15 04:50:11 <[pablo]> is anyone else even using adblockplus on os2008? Dec 15 04:50:36 i'm sure a lot of people will Dec 15 04:50:51 but you're kind of at the head of the pack in n810 acquisitiion Dec 15 04:51:09 <[pablo]> well os2008 is on the n800 now Dec 15 04:51:12 <[pablo]> for several weeks Dec 15 04:51:24 true Dec 15 04:52:15 [pablo]: pls check forums and mailing list for discussion of the problem also - possibly file a bug report Dec 15 04:53:06 <[pablo]> i couldn't find anywhere on thier site to file a bug report =/ all the standard garage tracker/forums/etc are not there Dec 15 04:53:33 <[pablo]> it appers to not even be installed, even though it is. The config options aren't even in there Dec 15 04:54:19 :/ Dec 15 04:54:56 6:00 AM in europe - might find some more people in here in 8 hours Dec 15 04:55:14 <[pablo]> heh Dec 15 04:55:50 <[pablo]> looks like there is a huge thread on itt Dec 15 04:55:53 <[pablo]> i'll read through that Dec 15 05:00:26 does the n800 a sleep/hibernate mode? Dec 15 05:00:51 anybody able to get fceu on the n810? Dec 15 05:01:14 <[pablo]> jga23: nope, it requires libs that are only on os2007 Dec 15 05:01:31 damn Dec 15 05:02:16 is that the only nes emulator for maemo? Dec 15 05:02:54 <[pablo]> i believe so Dec 15 05:02:58 <[pablo]> wait, does mame do NES? Dec 15 05:03:18 it has some games Dec 15 05:03:34 I got xmaeme on the n810, does xmame install? Dec 15 05:04:20 <[pablo]> i got it to install, but I have yet to get it to run Dec 15 05:04:27 <[pablo]> complains about missing files Dec 15 05:04:46 hmm, bummer Dec 15 05:04:59 xchat? Dec 15 05:06:41 <[pablo]> i use ssh+irssi Dec 15 05:06:50 <[pablo]> never tried installing xchat on n810 Dec 15 05:07:55 <[pablo]> pupnik: got it working =) apparently greasemonkey corrupts the extensions.rdf file Dec 15 05:08:04 what made you pick the n810 over the n800? Dec 15 05:08:16 I have both Dec 15 05:08:21 but the keyboard is the main thing Dec 15 05:08:23 <[pablo]> the keyboard Dec 15 05:08:33 gps was another, but that blows Dec 15 05:09:09 blows in what way? Dec 15 05:09:32 takes 10 mins to lock on Dec 15 05:09:43 congrats Dec 15 05:10:08 jga23: did you install FCEU? Dec 15 05:10:16 no, I wasn't able to Dec 15 05:10:41 <[pablo]> yeah, i don't really mention gps as a selling point anymore, because it sucks Dec 15 05:10:55 <[pablo]> i heard that the next version of os2008 will have fixes for GPS though Dec 15 05:11:00 <[pablo]> hopefully it will be usable Dec 15 05:11:40 I read that by the time the os2008 is out for n800 they will have a firmware fix for the n810 Dec 15 05:11:47 which hopefully is by the end of the year Dec 15 05:11:57 out meaning not beta Dec 15 05:12:38 <[pablo]> yeah, they will probably come out at the same time, along with a widespread release of the n810 Dec 15 05:13:20 although even with the gps issues, I'm very happy with the n810 Dec 15 05:15:00 <[pablo]> yes, and it can only get better Dec 15 05:15:02 <[pablo]> and it will get better Dec 15 05:15:05 <[pablo]> which is awesome Dec 15 05:16:15 hmm :-\ Dec 15 05:16:23 sounds like I shold wait on the n810 Dec 15 05:16:56 <[pablo]> they are so hard to even get right now, it won't make much of a difference heh Dec 15 05:17:08 <[pablo]> i go tmine for $75 off is the only reason I got it right away Dec 15 05:17:11 buy.com has em Dec 15 05:17:25 <[pablo]> nokiea said they had them when I ordered mine too, they didn't Dec 15 05:17:43 my buddy ordered his today Dec 15 05:17:50 nokia website says backordered until dec 19 Dec 15 05:18:07 nokiausa website that is Dec 15 05:18:33 <[pablo]> yeah Dec 15 05:18:39 <[pablo]> when I ordered mine it was available Dec 15 05:18:43 <[pablo]> when I got my confirmation email Dec 15 05:18:49 <[pablo]> it was backordered until Nov 27th Dec 15 05:18:57 <[pablo]> that was on like the 14th I think Dec 15 05:24:29 I never got a confirmation email Dec 15 05:28:29 <[pablo]> penguinbait: never? Dec 15 05:28:46 nope Dec 15 05:29:10 <[pablo]> did you get charged for it? LOL Dec 15 05:29:54 <[pablo]> well, they also require you to give them an email address Dec 15 05:29:59 <[pablo]> you might not have done that Dec 15 05:30:35 sorry,I thought you meant confirmation email saying they were on sale,I misunderstood Dec 15 05:30:43 <[pablo]> ahh Dec 15 05:30:56 <[pablo]> no it was just my confirmation from the order Dec 15 05:31:03 I fill out the email address on the nseries website Dec 15 05:31:09 <[pablo]> thoughtfix told me the day they went on sale, and I called right away Dec 15 05:31:21 <[pablo]> (in the US) Dec 15 05:31:33 I have coupon so I am waiting anyway Dec 15 05:32:00 <[pablo]> dev's get them for $99 Euro right? Dec 15 05:32:25 something like that Dec 15 05:32:49 the way the dollar is falling my price goes up daily Dec 15 05:33:01 <[pablo]> yeah tell me about it Dec 15 05:35:07 hmm i need to get a visa/mc to order Dec 15 05:36:34 <[pablo]> paypal? Dec 15 05:49:52 nokia.de wants visa/mc. most german purchases can be done through bank transfer Dec 15 05:51:24 <[pablo]> really? bank transfers here are rediculously expensive Dec 15 05:55:48 free here Dec 15 07:17:29 Hey guys Dec 15 07:17:42 Can someone try OpenTTD on any OS2008 device for me? Dec 15 07:18:59 Syntra: you bastard. Now I'll never do anything productive :( Dec 15 07:19:10 Heh Dec 15 07:19:14 You don't have to Dec 15 07:21:30 tell that to my boss :/ Dec 15 07:21:49 <[pablo]> that game looks like a lot of fun =) Dec 15 07:22:02 It is man Dec 15 07:22:11 Its one of the reasons I bought the N800 Dec 15 07:22:34 <[pablo]> heh Dec 15 07:23:00 <[pablo]> looks like a good enough reason to me =) Dec 15 07:23:05 Yeah Dec 15 07:23:12 But its yet to become a reality, sadly Dec 15 07:23:26 <[pablo]> it runs on the n800(os2007)? Dec 15 07:23:35 <[pablo]> it runs well I take it too? Dec 15 07:23:45 Heh, no Dec 15 07:23:55 <[pablo]> oh =/ Dec 15 07:23:58 It was ported for the 770 Dec 15 07:24:16 Tried the OS05 and OS06 versions Dec 15 07:24:21 Nothing Dec 15 07:24:41 I'm hoping OS2008 will be different, but I'm waiting for the official release Dec 15 07:25:11 <[pablo]> couldn't you try it in the SDK? Dec 15 07:25:49 Ehh Dec 15 07:25:55 I suppose Dec 15 07:25:57 <[pablo]> heh Dec 15 07:26:12 But that might not be too terribly useful Dec 15 07:47:29 As soon as the daimonin client is ready at 800x480, we'll take productivity down a couple of notches Dec 15 07:48:23 Exult: UI rework and wrapper code, Xu4: UI rework and wrapper code, Dosbox: sdl kbd and launcher... Dec 15 07:54:20 Sat Dec 15 08:52:56 CET 2007 Dec 15 08:30:10 hey anyone up? Dec 15 08:31:32 i created a linux gateway the other day but skype seems to have problems connecting through it. is it a stun problem ?? Dec 15 08:32:14 Have any of you experienced an odd problem where when you play a stream in mplayer, mplayer doesn't want to take the foreground until the end of the video? Dec 15 08:52:57 no Dec 15 08:54:12 how in the world do I type an escape on this keyboard :S Dec 15 08:56:49 oh, Dec 15 08:56:51 found it :D Dec 15 10:34:16 I love to irc while I walk Dec 15 10:35:25 Is there a good introduction to packaging software into .deb files? I've compiled the Erlang OTP distribution for the N800 and would like to make it generally available. Dec 15 10:38:34 Anyone got a way of setting a longer illumination time on the n810? Dec 15 10:38:51 for the keyboard Dec 15 10:39:28 probably a gconf setting Dec 15 10:40:12 have you tried maemo-mapper with the gps yet Rocketman12 ? Dec 15 10:41:16 with the built in or external? Dec 15 10:42:09 The built in gps hardware sucks, quite simply Dec 15 10:42:26 yeah so far i haven't managed to get gps fix with the internal Dec 15 10:42:34 Exceedingly long lock times...if at all Dec 15 10:42:49 so i dunno why they even bothered Dec 15 10:43:07 never more than 5 sats locked even with clear horizons Dec 15 10:43:22 poor receive sensitivity Dec 15 10:43:47 they bothered for the bullet point of the spec sheet Dec 15 10:44:28 My $30 Holux M-1000 is infinitely superior Dec 15 10:45:03 well even the nokia's external gps dongle works better, but even that takes 2-3 mins for fix Dec 15 10:45:08 $30 for a gps unit? Dec 15 10:45:35 30-45 second lock times in almost any condition Dec 15 10:46:12 and usually keeps 7-9 sats locked in even urban canyon type environments Dec 15 10:47:03 thing is size of a box of matches and lasts a full day (20+ hrs) on a charge Dec 15 10:47:26 Yeah, eBay is wonderful Dec 15 10:48:08 The MTK chipsets are >> better than Sirf III imo Dec 15 10:48:47 I think they do 32 channel while Sirf III is something like 20 Dec 15 10:49:02 really helps with skyscrappers Dec 15 10:52:13 pupnik, any idea what the gconf setting might be pupnik? Dec 15 10:52:30 no - but it's a search term that might help you get lucky with an answer Dec 15 10:53:01 i want to use gps for biking tours in the woods Dec 15 10:53:17 getting lost at the end of a biking day, dehydrated and low on sugar really sucks Dec 15 10:54:52 gps generally works really bad in woods Dec 15 10:55:19 atleast these civilian dongles without extra antenna Dec 15 10:55:39 boo Dec 15 10:55:55 well there are always clearings Dec 15 11:00:07 You might want to invest in one of these gps units that do inertial tracking when you don't have sat lock Dec 15 11:01:01 last time I checked you could get them for under $1000 and that was probably a year and a half ago Dec 15 11:01:09 surely cheaper now Dec 15 12:05:21 hola Dec 15 14:01:11 So much for "by the 15th" .. Dec 15 14:03:17 * Jaffa wonders whether to raise one bug for in bugzilla for the general crapness of the UI design for scrolling in OS2008 apps, or one for each application. Dec 15 14:04:29 One for each ;) Dec 15 14:04:33 But copy & paste ^_^ Dec 15 14:04:50 Browser finger scrolling is aweful on some sites. Dec 15 14:05:08 alterego: exactly what I was thinking Dec 15 14:05:30 Maybe one parent in Desktop > User interaction and then others related to that Dec 15 14:05:37 Doesn't look like I'm gonna be able to get 64bit debian installed :( Dec 15 14:05:57 * alterego starts downloading the 64bit ubuntu install CD. Dec 15 14:06:20 I could do a bootstrap I guess. Dec 15 14:18:02 I don't really like the ITT site either. Dec 15 14:18:10 But that has nothing to do with maemo really. Dec 15 14:18:35 You'd think, creating a website for the internet tablet community. And you can barely use it on device :/ Dec 15 14:19:01 ironic web design Dec 15 14:19:20 Heh Dec 15 14:19:47 how much does N800 cost these days? Dec 15 14:19:57 200 GBP Dec 15 14:20:04 ~400 USD Dec 15 14:20:39 k. i hope some version contains GSM in the future Dec 15 14:20:47 That'd be rubbish Dec 15 14:21:02 Byt the time the tablets have GSM, GSM will have been superseded by something else. Dec 15 14:21:06 i could easily replace my phone with that Dec 15 14:21:11 Pfft. Dec 15 14:21:13 right. that's true Dec 15 14:21:24 You'd look like an idiot walking down the street talking on a tablet :P Dec 15 14:21:41 one of those bluetooth speaker setups would do the trick Dec 15 14:21:51 Just, for a moment, pretend that these devices aren't actually developed by Nokia, they're developed by maemo .. Dec 15 14:22:44 on of the coolest aspects of the device is that it is really easy to develop software for it Dec 15 14:22:47 *one Dec 15 14:23:17 alterego: you're saying people look like idiots using skype on the tablet? Dec 15 14:23:22 Sure, I'm merely saying. That if the device wasn't developed by Nokia. You wouldn't expect any GSM functionality :P Dec 15 14:23:28 i have been playing with pymaemo, pygtk and glade a bit. really nice :) Dec 15 14:23:57 shackan, I was refering to having it attached to the side of your head ;) Dec 15 14:24:23 heh, at least you don't have to hold it like the old N-Gage Dec 15 14:24:58 I don't like using handsfree kits with phones. So I'm unlikely to every have a use for GSM _in_ the device. Except for the internet. Dec 15 14:25:23 Which means I'd still need a seperate phone, which then proves to me that there's no point in having GSM in the device :) Dec 15 14:25:30 alterego: and people (at least me) don't want to carry too much stuff around, and I'm more likely to carry my phone therefore having to leave the tablet at home (also because it's completely useless unless you have wifi around, which is never the case) Dec 15 14:25:51 You don't use your phone as a modem? Dec 15 14:25:59 * alterego likes using his phone as a modem .. Dec 15 14:26:59 no, my phone doesn't even have bluetooth (so I'd need a new phone, and I'd rather get a n810, but I won't because I could only buy one thing) Dec 15 14:27:14 Ah, Dec 15 14:27:27 You can get pretty cheap phones with BT and EDGE .. Dec 15 14:28:13 that's not the point, we have no dataplans in this country, I just wanted to make and receive calls without having to carry too much gear, that's all Dec 15 14:28:36 Get a hand bag you girl :P Dec 15 14:28:48 ... Dec 15 14:29:01 My tablet fits snugly in my left hand trouser pocket. And my phone is nicely in my right. Dec 15 14:29:25 Mind you, I'm probably pretty infertile by now ^_^ Dec 15 14:29:36 mmm, my n800 is huge in my trouser pocket Dec 15 14:29:47 I can't even sit Dec 15 14:30:53 and btw, if they can fit a gps into something the size of a coin, gsm modules should be pretty much integrated by now, and they're cheap Dec 15 14:31:16 GPS in n810 is crap atleast Dec 15 14:31:25 well, no idea Dec 15 14:35:49 Feel free to vote for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2564 y'all Dec 15 14:38:51 voted... and I wish everyone would forget about fat scrollbars Dec 15 14:38:54 what a bad idea Dec 15 14:40:52 dragging things via kinetic scrolling is a better ui than scrollbars for a tablet/finger device Dec 15 14:40:59 WHAT Dec 15 14:40:59 SHUT UP Dec 15 14:41:00 GO AWAY Dec 15 14:41:02 FAT SCROLLBARS ARE NEEEDED Dec 15 14:41:07 (just on the right side) Dec 15 14:41:21 RAWR Dec 15 14:41:25 (and only for the browser) Dec 15 14:41:35 all of this hard work trying to trick timeless into implementing fat scrollbars could go awry ;) Dec 15 14:41:47 hrm Dec 15 14:42:18 ok i delete my opinion Dec 15 14:42:18 why? because they are adamantly against kinetic scrolling Dec 15 14:42:57 :) Dec 15 14:43:04 well dragging something around seems more intuitive than bars Dec 15 14:43:13 with or without kinetic energy Dec 15 14:43:27 'multiplied' scrolling would work for me. Dec 15 14:43:54 i.e., move your finger 20 pixels, the screen scrolls 30-50. just something to get out of the dragging treadmill we have now Dec 15 14:45:34 hm yah. also would be so nice if the cpu didn't have to draw the window when scrolling stuff Dec 15 14:45:58 but that's maybe 2008 or 2009 tech Dec 15 14:46:32 well, 1978 tech Dec 15 14:46:55 the problem is the 'design documentation' that 'official' apps must adhere to. Dec 15 14:47:19 but if someone were to clean up and repackage the grabanddrag extension.. Dec 15 14:48:08 (as soon as I have a bit more time, I will give it a shot if no one else does by then) Dec 15 14:48:15 http://grabanddrag.mozdev.org/ Dec 15 14:48:21 you can use this extension now. Dec 15 14:48:24 in Firefox.. Dec 15 14:48:43 in fact, you can run this extension on a remote Firefox and use VNC or rdesktop to control it. Dec 15 14:49:01 and have kinetic firefox. Dec 15 14:49:52 http://grabanddrag.mozdev.org/screenshots.html Dec 15 14:49:56 interesting stuff Dec 15 14:50:01 supports 'flick' Dec 15 14:50:12 where you push on the screen, then flick your finger to page around Dec 15 14:50:26 and 'momentum' - i.e., kinetic Dec 15 14:51:03 flick detects fast motion, otherwise the scrolling is by dragging? Dec 15 14:51:17 I think it's just a matter of how far your finger travels and at what speed. Dec 15 14:51:25 there is tons of configuration options, I'm sure it's all adjustable Dec 15 14:51:47 if your finger goes further down the screen without lifting, you get momentum based on that speed Dec 15 14:52:07 if your finger moves short but very fast, you get a flick (quick speed up for X distance, then quick speed down) Dec 15 14:52:23 having that behavior selectable in browser preferences would be sweet Dec 15 14:53:49 don't know what kind of work it would take yet to get basic behavior working, but trying to make some time before the end of January to get into it Dec 15 14:54:52 * Jaffa wonders whether gradanddrag would conflict with the scrolling the browser's trying to do itself. Dec 15 14:57:13 Jaffa: thanks for filing that maps bug Dec 15 14:57:19 it's one of many complaints i have Dec 15 14:57:29 for me, dpad up/down would be good for paging, not selecting links Dec 15 14:57:40 pupnik: there's a pref you can set to deal w/ that Dec 15 14:57:46 cool Dec 15 14:57:50 http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/microb-pageupdown-0.1.deb Dec 15 14:57:55 i think that's what you want Dec 15 14:58:03 o_O Dec 15 14:58:09 u r cool Dec 15 14:58:15 it's all someone else's fault Dec 15 14:58:25 both the fact that we have the default feature Dec 15 14:58:29 and enough research to undo it Dec 15 14:58:37 hrm Dec 15 14:58:46 i really should write news articles explaining such features Dec 15 14:58:50 that'd be moderately useful Dec 15 14:58:51 what is that - os2007? Dec 15 14:59:15 the feature/requirement that arrows do something wonky Dec 15 14:59:35 it is a bora deb? Dec 15 14:59:42 oh Dec 15 14:59:47 um, hopefully "it just works"? Dec 15 15:00:00 if my deb doesn't work on 2.x/3.x/4.x please let me know? Dec 15 15:00:18 how can i make a deb that app mgr can install on 2006 and 2007 both? Dec 15 15:00:25 (it's for a sdl game that works on both) Dec 15 15:00:34 * timely shrugs Dec 15 15:00:41 i construct debs by hand Dec 15 15:00:57 i haven't investigated .install files yet Dec 15 15:01:00 ok Dec 15 15:01:05 i think in theory, a deb doesn't know where it can be used Dec 15 15:01:14 it merely says "i need X" "i can't be used with Y" Dec 15 15:01:29 no, i get complaints from application manager when installing debs from file Dec 15 15:01:31 deciding when to use a deb is controlled by placement (in a repository) Dec 15 15:01:36 really? Dec 15 15:01:38 yah Dec 15 15:01:43 did it complain about my file(s)? Dec 15 15:01:54 do not have microb Dec 15 15:02:05 but i will test and learn more about this Dec 15 15:02:05 oh, ... Dec 15 15:02:25 i hope my deb complained if you didn't have microb, it clearly won't work w/o that :) Dec 15 15:02:33 but microb on 2006, 2007, or 2008 should be happy Dec 15 15:02:50 very cool Dec 15 15:02:54 the package name was microb-pageupdown, not tablet-browser-pageupdown :) Dec 15 15:03:08 yes Dec 15 15:03:10 * timely wonders if it's possible to disable the feature in opera Dec 15 15:03:14 i deduced that Dec 15 15:03:25 no more coffee for you timely Dec 15 15:03:52 :) Dec 15 15:05:45 it's 5pm, maybe lunch? Dec 15 15:06:33 timely: no probs on the Maps bugs. Having been playing with an N810 for a day or so, I thought I'd go bugzilla-tastic. Dec 15 15:06:40 hi Dec 15 15:06:44 any news on canola?.. :) Dec 15 15:08:38 http://www.maemoapps.com/2007/12/14/adblock-plus-for-microb/ Dec 15 15:08:39 * timely frowns Dec 15 15:08:50 i think the top picture looks a lot better than the bottom picture Dec 15 15:08:52 she's cute :) Dec 15 15:08:56 :) Dec 15 15:09:52 sadly, his demo pictures look better than the other demo pictures i see Dec 15 15:10:13 what software do you guys use for streaming audio/video to the n8x0?.. Dec 15 15:10:30 killfill: i use my n81 :) Dec 15 15:10:52 heh Dec 15 15:11:33 oh that sucks Dec 15 15:11:38 killfill: I use my mediaserv: http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/mediaserv.html Dec 15 15:11:40 maemoapp.com stole the picture from browser-extras Dec 15 15:11:52 Dec 15 15:12:04 timely: well, he *did* ask ;-) Dec 15 15:12:12 oh sure :) Dec 15 15:12:26 xmlns:jaffa does consist of *many* ...plug elements :) Dec 15 15:12:46 typically end tags don't include attributes Dec 15 15:12:58 but i'll accept that there were probably various attributes on the begin tag :) Dec 15 15:14:40 Jaffa: wow.. looks cool Dec 15 15:15:32 look to be a "backend" for video center (didnt know about it neither..) Dec 15 15:15:40 can we get mediaserv working with mplayer? :) Dec 15 15:15:52 You can use it without Video Center and just use the web UI Dec 15 15:16:51 fysa: yeah, 1) Video Center lets you configure mplayer forplayback, 2) 770 users have to do that anyway, since Media Player on OS2006 is crap at handling streaming. I was going to say the README says how to do that, but it doesn't seem that it does in the current version. Dec 15 15:16:52 pupnik: out of curiosity, why don't you have microb? Dec 15 15:16:55 i.e., I can play 652x3xx 1600kbps xvid natively in mplayer, but would still want to re-encode higher than that based on resolution. Dec 15 15:17:00 ah Dec 15 15:18:01 fysa: cool Dec 15 15:19:00 timely: that deb works fine with Web on OS2008, btw (as I'm sure you already know). Thanks a lot for that. Dec 15 15:19:01 I have an mplayer-based .sh that analyzes resolution/codec/autocrops and uses a ~/.mplayer/config-xxx 'profile' accordingly Dec 15 15:19:38 could something like this (or is it already?) be used with tablet-encode to not touch certain files? Dec 15 15:20:48 tablet-encode will just copy the stream if it's lower resolution, is DivX, and has a width/height divisible by 16 compared with the preset. So, if you created a preset at 652x3xx @ 1600kbps, it wouldn't touch those files, but would touch the higher ones. Dec 15 15:22:36 hot Dec 15 15:23:18 now I have something to do today. ;) Dec 15 15:23:31 it looks good. Dec 15 15:23:49 I see it has an RSS feed also. Dec 15 15:26:39 oh.. videocenter is not ready for os2007 jet.. Dec 15 15:26:41 2008 Dec 15 15:27:16 timely: i don't use the 770 to surf much now that I have dsl Dec 15 15:28:18 http://flickr.com/photos/sunitabudhrani/sets/ Dec 15 15:28:46 Jaffa: it transcode video only right?.. im actually looking for mainly two things: stream audio, and stream fotos from a server Dec 15 15:29:02 any sugestion is welcome.. :) Dec 15 15:29:18 I'd guess you want some kind of UPnP server. Never found one for Linux I got on with, TBH Dec 15 15:30:13 All of them suck. Dec 15 15:30:27 That'd explain it :) Dec 15 15:30:44 what sucks.. the upnp's? Dec 15 15:30:57 Yep. Dec 15 15:31:03 coherence has potential Dec 15 15:31:21 what wrong with the one I'm working on? https://coherence.beebits.net/ Dec 15 15:31:21 any special reason for it?.. ive hear its not NAT friendly.. but apart of that.. Dec 15 15:31:34 jeddy3: thx ;-) Dec 15 15:31:44 :) Dec 15 15:31:52 it has Dec 15 15:32:01 dev: I'll have a look Dec 15 15:32:54 Jaffa: it even works _on_ the nokia itself Dec 15 15:33:19 dev: the file-system backend for MediaServer would seem to do what I'd want for audio UPnP at home Dec 15 15:33:58 killfill: UPnP isn't intended to work outside a lan, but there is work in progress to define a "remote upnp spec" Dec 15 15:34:17 XBMC Linux has a built-in UPNP server. Dec 15 15:34:28 which seems like it will be decent once setup. Dec 15 15:34:39 mediatomb works OK -- I have transcoding working with that, but it's sketchy Dec 15 15:35:08 your best solutions are probably mediaserv or TVersity.. Dec 15 15:35:42 I have nfs mount working now, but it breaks more than it's worth. Dec 15 15:35:57 * killfill anotating thouse names.. Dec 15 15:36:41 TVersity is Windows -- probably the best uPNP server out there, the XBox 360/PS3 community use it to transcode to supported formats in real-time Dec 15 15:36:44 and I believe it has an N800 profile. Dec 15 15:36:51 Jaffa: the filesystem backend works fine so far with all clients, from Nokia MediaStreamer to PS3 Dec 15 15:37:11 oh my server is a freebsd box Dec 15 15:37:55 dev: coherence wiki is full of info. thanks for pointing it out. :) Dec 15 15:38:20 killfill: you're welcome Dec 15 15:39:35 Jaffa: if you can use the MediaDB backend Dec 15 15:41:14 Jaffa: it lacks automatic adding of new files, but it has id3 tagging support, an album-art fetcher and organizes the files in an "all tracks", albums and artist structure Dec 15 15:43:47 Jaffa: would it be possible to get a dropdown profile selector in the web interface? i.e. If I'm not home, I'd like to use a lower bandwidth profile for streaming? Dec 15 15:51:51 fysa: it's been requested. I've not done any work on it yet, though Dec 15 15:52:50 dew Dec 15 16:02:03 isnt there a installer for mono on os2008 jet? Dec 15 16:02:44 heh? Dec 15 16:03:45 .net Dec 15 16:03:50 I know Dec 15 16:04:03 looks dead even on regular pc Dec 15 16:04:13 hehe.. Dec 15 16:38:52 are we having fun yet? Dec 15 16:43:49 not yet. too cold, no n810 :-) Dec 15 16:44:02 * vegai concurs Dec 15 16:44:15 Christmas is in jeopardy Dec 15 16:44:24 in fact, Nokia is waging a war against christmas! Dec 15 16:44:53 good for Nokia then Dec 15 16:45:00 Christmas is bullshit Dec 15 16:45:06 You could also say the Christians are waging a war against the IT community with their holidays disrupting shipping lanes ;) Dec 15 16:45:36 war against Yule Dec 15 16:45:37 then Dec 15 16:46:00 have a picture of n810 and be happy again Dec 15 16:49:54 fapfapfap. Dec 15 16:59:12 Sho, its cold here, and no n810 yet either Dec 15 16:59:26 but I am still having fun Dec 15 17:02:28 penguinbait: Still porting our stuff over? What's the latest? :) Dec 15 17:03:12 xrdp and x11vnc Dec 15 17:03:41 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13155 Dec 15 17:04:09 dopewars Dec 15 17:04:12 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12036 Dec 15 17:04:16 hehe Dec 15 17:04:56 cdrom/DVD device support Dec 15 17:04:59 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12036&highlight=dopewars Dec 15 17:05:03 oops Dec 15 17:05:07 penguinbait: Tried doing KDE 4 yet? :-) Dec 15 17:05:18 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12491 Dec 15 17:05:39 uh not yet, I just finished 3.5.8 with Koffice Dec 15 17:06:07 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11590 Dec 15 17:06:21 it is said 4 is about 40% less demanding Dec 15 17:07:18 well there was a guy in here, gnuton, I think, he was a KDE developer and said he was porting KDE4 Dec 15 17:07:41 I will probably get to it in a few months, if its not already out there Dec 15 17:08:04 * Sho_ is a KDE developer as well, fwiw Dec 15 17:08:23 has any speed testing been done with internal 2GB on n810? Dec 15 17:08:56 Sho: I am just a hack :) Dec 15 17:09:02 mkruisselbrink put Plasma (which is our new desktop and panel app/framework) on a Neo1973 earlier this week - should be much nicer on an IT :-) Dec 15 17:11:07 Sho have you tried KDE on tablet Dec 15 17:11:59 penguinbait: Not yet, sadly - I only very briefly had an N800, and am currently waiting for the N810 discount code to go live :-) Dec 15 17:12:41 I am waiting for the same thing Dec 15 17:12:49 so are you developing anything? Dec 15 17:13:31 penguinbait: I was going to look into making Qt4 work with the input method framework, so it works with the onscreen keyboards Dec 15 17:13:39 who is eligable for the discount code? Dec 15 17:14:01 tank-man, the people who applied for it and were accepted Dec 15 17:17:16 how do you clear ash history in os2008? Dec 15 17:17:39 time to cook dinner - bbl Dec 15 17:17:49 I am very excited about the possibility of KDE4 being ported by someone who knows what they are doing. Cause quite honestly, I can run configure, make, and make install all day long, and I am pretty good at troubleshooting compile issues. But I am unable to change any code Dec 15 17:18:03 anything good? Dec 15 17:18:59 rm .ash_history in home dir Dec 15 17:19:07 type /dev/null > .ash_history Dec 15 17:19:17 you may then need to touch it Dec 15 17:19:21 or that Dec 15 17:19:53 could complain about not having right to do that, but will remove the content Dec 15 17:20:39 some shells have option to put the ine in >logout Dec 15 17:20:46 *line Dec 15 17:20:55 and ".logout" Dec 15 17:21:49 What is the status of Discount purchases for developers? Dec 15 17:24:34 hola Dec 15 17:24:58 I got a code on Nov. 12 but have not seen anything since for instructions on where to purchase the N810. Dec 15 17:28:33 supposed to be next week bodhammer Dec 15 17:29:18 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13188&highlight=discount Dec 15 17:39:01 hi all Dec 15 18:03:49 penguinbait: Thx, any idea how much of a discount Nokia is offering? It's been a rough Xmas on the credit card already! Dec 15 18:04:48 => 100 currency units, I think Dec 15 18:08:43 What is the best way to start chasing down runtime errors when porting? I'm getting a clean compile for a project from GNU source but it crashes when I run it. Dec 15 18:11:24 vegai, 100 currency units is pretty meaningless if you count JPY ;) Dec 15 18:22:12 so another few days until canola... Dec 15 18:33:17 yup Dec 15 18:44:21 Hi all Dec 15 18:44:37 Hi Ed77 Dec 15 18:44:58 can anybody answer gtk-related questions here? Dec 15 18:45:50 if your question is related to tablet development, your best bet on IRC is always to ask, not ask to ask Dec 15 18:46:03 Ed77: not anybody, but perhaps you might get an answer if you make a good, concise, to the point question Dec 15 18:46:06 if it's a generic Gtk+ question, you'll want to take it to #gtk on gimpnet (or wherever they currently hang out) Dec 15 18:46:27 ok, I'll try :) Dec 15 18:47:40 it's #gtk+ Dec 15 18:47:52 and yes, gimpnet. Dec 15 18:48:57 I wrote simple gtk program and when I run it from commandline under root everything is OK. But when I put it in postinst script of my package and install this package style of my widgets (labels and button) is different. What should I do to make it default maemo style? Dec 15 18:49:25 what does your postinst script *do*? Dec 15 18:49:28 nopasting it might be helpful Dec 15 18:50:40 It doesn't matter. What matters is when this program is run by application manager style of widgets is changed. Dec 15 18:51:02 If I install package by dpkg or apt style is ok. Dec 15 18:52:14 In my code I parse default gtkrc file, so theoretically styles should be set from there. But practically it doesn't work. Dec 15 18:53:14 What's the password for root in OS2008 ? Dec 15 18:53:16 And I think it's not related to gtk, it should be something maemo-specific. Dec 15 18:53:30 er the default root pw Dec 15 18:54:04 hillct: it should still be rootme Dec 15 18:54:07 but what do I know Dec 15 18:54:34 heh Dec 15 18:54:57 hmm Dec 15 18:55:00 aparently not Dec 15 18:55:15 anyone know a way to stop kismet and similar wireless monitoring tools to stop finding ghost clients/networks? Dec 15 18:55:27 i think its a prob with the drivers on the nokia Dec 15 18:55:45 Atarii: it _is_ a problem with the drivers. Unfortunately I have found no workaround Dec 15 18:55:53 this is what I get for updating a perfectly working OS2007 setup to OS2008 Dec 15 18:56:24 Atarii: I follow this procedure to scan networks. Dec 15 18:56:52 1) attempt to connect to a WiFi net, but stop after seen which ones are available Dec 15 18:57:09 2) run airodump a first time in order to find the channel the interesting network is on Dec 15 18:57:25 3) run airodump again on that channel Dec 15 18:57:40 4) Pray no bogus traffic gets labelled WPA/WPA2 Dec 15 18:57:46 lol Dec 15 18:57:54 5) Once enough traffic is available, crack Dec 15 18:57:55 :-) Dec 15 18:58:03 do u still get ghost clients? Dec 15 18:58:16 yes, but I don't care too much about them anyway Dec 15 18:58:25 it's the WEP key I want to crack ;-) Dec 15 18:58:41 i just got wifizoo running on the 770, but theres so much garbage data its worthless running it Dec 15 18:58:59 Atarii: I would test the aircrack-ng suite Dec 15 18:59:09 it doesn't get too much garbage Dec 15 18:59:35 i tried it b4, but it still went a bit crazy, mite try the latest version Dec 15 19:00:21 it doesn't work too badly. Now, if airodump-ng was able to drop bad-formed packets... Dec 15 19:00:53 gomiam: how long does it take for wep on average? Dec 15 19:01:25 maybe we could alter the source to drop MACs like FF:FF:***** etc, that would help filter a bit Dec 15 19:02:06 well, the latest aircrack-ng software has the PTW method, which is supposedly effective with just over 40K packets Dec 15 19:02:35 unfortunately I don't know how to make a N800 inject packets, so gathering is quite slow usually Dec 15 19:03:05 even more, Spain's main phone operator, Telefonica, uses a brain-dead scheme to create WEP keys Dec 15 19:03:19 it's so damned easy that there's only 64K keys to test Dec 15 19:03:35 oh, they provide wep enabled routers? Dec 15 19:03:45 once you have four or more data packets it's trivial to dictionary attack them Dec 15 19:04:03 shackan: yes, they do. At least they provide some factory-set security Dec 15 19:04:26 Jazztel gives you an open router, so there is no need to even crack it XD Dec 15 19:04:31 lucky you :D here we get lots of wifi routers issued by the main telecom operator, but they all com with wpa2 by default Dec 15 19:04:42 *come Dec 15 19:05:01 you can't find them almost anywhere Dec 15 19:05:14 *can Dec 15 19:05:21 shackan: yeah, it's quite useful. At the flat I share with some friends I have already cracked a couple of networks so I can connect my laptop there XD Dec 15 19:06:29 oh Dec 15 19:06:35 of course, having a ZyDAS 1211rw USB card with external antenna helps a lot with coverage :-) Dec 15 19:07:30 well, I've been routinely using an open wireless network which is 200 metres from here, which perfect indoor reception Dec 15 19:07:43 W O W Dec 15 19:07:45 no idea how it can happen, but it does Dec 15 19:07:57 now that is a natural parabolic room you have XD Dec 15 19:08:13 of course now I have broadband and don't 'lease' it anymore Dec 15 19:08:30 of course, of course... XD Dec 15 19:09:26 Sorry to just barge in, anyone had trouble with ncurses installation on the n800? Cause I can't seem to get it installed Dec 15 19:09:51 Fang64: not me, on OS2007 Dec 15 19:10:02 yup Dec 15 19:10:35 I've tried acouple times I've had to manually remove the package it seems it wont install gives me some mess about a clear file Dec 15 19:11:19 it's been mentioned in the chat previous i went googling for a solution ran into this chat lol Dec 15 19:13:08 I've also tried wiping out OS2007 with a reflash twice now so it's kind of a loss at the moment to what is causing it unless maemo-hackers repository is broken or maybe busybox hates ncurses not really sure though Dec 15 19:13:32 specifically the ncurses-bin Dec 15 19:13:40 ncurses works here atleast with 0s2008, busybox and screen Dec 15 19:14:28 uhm.. or maybe I'm crazy lol Dec 15 19:15:05 you could just try to unpack the .deb and place the lib in /usr/lib :) Dec 15 19:15:15 not a bad idea Dec 15 19:15:55 it still would be nice to know why that package isn't behaving properly Dec 15 19:16:11 dpkg doesn't complain or anything? Dec 15 19:16:15 it does Dec 15 19:16:24 mentions /usr/bin/clear Dec 15 19:16:28 it attempts to rename it Dec 15 19:16:36 I tried making a fake file it didn't like that lol Dec 15 19:16:50 weird stuff Dec 15 19:16:54 I know there is a busybox.clear file dunno if it's related Dec 15 19:16:58 indeed Dec 15 19:17:17 didn't os2007 have bash at some point? Dec 15 19:17:26 actually let me link you to the error someone else posted it up as well Dec 15 19:18:28 http://pastebin.ca/642663 Dec 15 19:18:39 that's the identical situation I have Dec 15 19:19:31 Unique311 mentioned it here in this chat which I'm not sure if he figured it out Dec 15 19:20:05 i don't know that much about os2007, but has it always come with busybox? Dec 15 19:20:12 or did it have bash at some point Dec 15 19:21:06 I think you can get bash shell Dec 15 19:21:13 but it has busybox out of the box Dec 15 19:21:20 at least since I've had mine Dec 15 19:21:39 I haven't had it but for 2 weeks now Dec 15 19:22:36 wow Dec 15 19:22:52 ? Dec 15 19:23:05 I was trying to stick to the one month with my N800, but I couldn't. Dec 15 19:23:35 I couldn't do simple stuff Dec 15 19:23:44 N800 - OS2008 still needs apps Dec 15 19:23:48 indeed Dec 15 19:23:52 Fang64, yeah looks like your repo that comes with ncurses is braindamaged or never has been installed on actual n800/os2007 Dec 15 19:23:54 that's why I haven't moved up Dec 15 19:24:12 http://shop.nokia.it/nokia-it/product.aspx?sku=3759852 Dec 15 19:24:17 ? Dec 15 19:24:21 seems it is now available also in Italy :) Dec 15 19:24:26 ah Dec 15 19:24:27 nice Dec 15 19:24:34 what repo has a copy of ncurses-bin that works Dec 15 19:24:43 seems that was a fail Dec 15 19:24:44 so is it safe to say that N810 has the official OS2008? Dec 15 19:25:36 skibur, mine has atleast Dec 15 19:25:47 i bought it this friday Dec 15 19:26:52 I ran the OS2008 when I first got it to play around abit the applications definitely are lacking but, I was running the N810 version via fake macid Dec 15 19:27:05 decided to switch back when I looked at the repo Dec 15 19:27:23 well there's lots of thirdparty repos with stuff Dec 15 19:27:36 atleast only thing i'm missing right now is vnc Dec 15 19:27:42 other stuff is there Dec 15 19:27:56 nice Dec 15 19:28:01 http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ thats where I went to hunt for it Dec 15 19:28:13 Tontsa, you bought N810? Dec 15 19:28:20 yep that page has nice list of repos Dec 15 19:28:23 skibur, yep Dec 15 19:28:29 ncurses from there was a fail lol Dec 15 19:28:29 nice Dec 15 19:28:42 Fang64, maybe check if multiple repos have ncurses Dec 15 19:29:02 I was going to buy N810, but I decided on the N800 Dec 15 19:29:16 i love the keyboard on n810 Dec 15 19:29:16 uhm your right but I remember trying the other two and they wouldn't work but I'll try again Dec 15 19:29:17 I hope that the WiMAx chip will come soon Dec 15 19:29:51 didn't verizon say they are coming out with the N800 WiMax Enabled Dec 15 19:30:26 or is nokia planning to release a SD WiMax card or something? Dec 15 19:31:22 or bluetooth Dec 15 19:32:43 bluetooth wimax wouldn't make much sens Dec 15 19:32:44 e Dec 15 19:33:02 yah Dec 15 19:33:07 it'd be horrible Dec 15 19:33:27 yeah Dec 15 19:33:33 30 feet internet Dec 15 19:33:35 \:) Dec 15 19:33:43 i'm guessing it's either SD card or just totally new unit with diffrent radio Dec 15 19:33:47 hum... Wimax SD card Dec 15 19:33:54 is that even possible? Dec 15 19:34:07 well there is a WiMax chip destined for a SD card Dec 15 19:34:11 * |R happy: nokia is activating discount codes for canadians! :] Dec 15 19:34:12 not sure who is going to get it Dec 15 19:34:16 well there exists wlan sd cards so i'm sure it's possible Dec 15 19:34:55 it was on engadget or something I was reading Dec 15 19:35:00 how much are you guys getting discount Dec 15 19:35:18 Do you really think nokia would wanna sell sd card Wimax chips? when they can easily sell you a new N800 unit for more money? Dec 15 19:36:09 it wouldn't be nokia Dec 15 19:36:17 it'd probably be the providers themselves Dec 15 19:36:57 but I doubt the N800 will get it just saying there will be SD WiMax cards just not meant for the N800 Dec 15 19:37:37 <|R> tontsa : i'm not sure yet what the canadian price will be... it was 99 euros Dec 15 19:37:46 if wimax is over there provider oriented, then i guess you will just see "special editions" sold by the provider Dec 15 19:37:47 <|R> (final price, not a discount) Dec 15 19:37:55 indeed Dec 15 19:37:59 that's a huge discount then Dec 15 19:38:07 i had to pay 560 euros for n810 Dec 15 19:38:11 verizon I believe has a branded version coming Dec 15 19:39:02 but that was just because i was eager to get the unit, so i bought it straight from nokia's walk-in shop Dec 15 19:39:17 the actual price is around 450 euros when big retailers get their stock Dec 15 19:40:02 just a question... I live in Italy and our government is doing the challenge to assign the wimax licenses..... so we haven't wimax yet... anyway the question is: which are the countries where wimax is already active and working? Dec 15 19:40:51 we have it here in Finland.. but it's damn expensive Dec 15 19:40:57 we have it here stateside if you wanna pay 50~70 dollars a month Dec 15 19:41:07 at least where I am at on the east coast Dec 15 19:42:36 tontsa, Fang64 : what about the coverage of wimax? is it really accessible from everywhere, just like we have UMTS connection? Dec 15 19:43:03 I couldn't tell you I don't know anyone using it in my area Dec 15 19:43:26 Andy80, the coverage is gradually building.. over there it's mainly targetted for "summer cottage" areas Dec 15 19:43:32 most people use EDGE or EVDO if they want Internet on the go Dec 15 19:43:33 Here in Germany there are only a few small WIMAX networks for corporate users that partially cover some of the bigger cities - the big carrier companies haven't touched it so far, afaik Dec 15 19:43:51 which is 3G internet service basically Dec 15 19:43:58 mmm.... interesting... Dec 15 19:44:24 problem with wimax is the available bandwith per basestation Dec 15 19:44:38 I have a friend who actually uses EVDO for his Internet service at his home with a router which provides around 300~500kbps Dec 15 19:44:42 Fang64: yes... we (italy) mainly use UMTS (300 kbits) and, recently HDSPA (about 3,4 Mbits) to connect Dec 15 19:44:44 which isn't bad for 3g Dec 15 19:44:56 since you can get wide coverage per basestation so operators here are atleast struggling to provider better than 1mbps for user Dec 15 19:45:12 provide* Dec 15 19:45:47 I'm in North Carolina, Charlotte which is quite a big city at least for my area but that's about the only place providing WiMax Dec 15 19:45:49 I think this: if wimax/hdspa was more spread... we could basically always use VOIP instead of expensive mobile phones :P Dec 15 19:45:50 I was just thinking... If its going to be 50-70 dollars, is it going to be unlimited ACCESS? :P Dec 15 19:46:11 well here it is Dec 15 19:46:32 mexico? Dec 15 19:46:40 50$ for unlimited access, considering I could use VOIP everywhere... well... it's cheap :) Dec 15 19:47:14 I believe AT&T wants to implement WiMax here as well they already have the infrastructure in place just need to turn the services on Dec 15 19:47:25 actually we pay 50-90 euros to have about 1000-1500 minutes/month of mobile phone calling Dec 15 19:47:39 without internet access Dec 15 19:48:04 On December 5, 2007, Bin Shen, Sprint's VP of Product Management and Partnership Development, announced that Sprint's WiMAX network will go live in a soft launch in Chicago, Baltimore, and Washington DC. Full commercial launch is still expected to be approximately spring of 2008. Dec 15 19:48:08 They keep sending out newsletters informing customers of new services coming up one of them they tout is WiMax dunno if it'll happen Dec 15 19:48:33 yet at least Dec 15 19:49:23 Verizon tacks on 15 dollars a month for internet services if you want to pair your phone with a device Dec 15 19:49:45 I'm paying 50 dollars a month as is Dec 15 19:50:27 Fang64: you pay 50$ to have what exactly? Dec 15 19:50:40 just mobile service and 700 minutes of calling Dec 15 19:50:41 lol Dec 15 19:50:47 if I tacked on 15 bucks Dec 15 19:50:52 I'd could get data service Dec 15 19:50:56 I* Dec 15 19:51:26 how much does it cost an UMTS data service there? (UMTS is about 300-350 kbits/s) Dec 15 19:51:26 The only reason I haven't AT&T have a blanket over the city with WiFi Towers Dec 15 19:51:37 if you have AT&T Broadband service you get their WiFi access with it Dec 15 19:51:58 I rarely not seea WiFi tower marked att Dec 15 19:52:15 no... I mean something accessible from everywhere (everywhere your mobile phone has signal) Dec 15 19:52:47 verizon tacking on Vcast will get you the internet Dec 15 19:52:53 which is 15 a month Dec 15 19:52:55 for example... we have a very cheap solution here... I pay 9€ / month to have unlimited (in time) UMTS connection, but limited to 50 mb/day Dec 15 19:52:58 that's anywhere you have a signal Dec 15 19:53:07 no limit Dec 15 19:53:11 ah cool... Dec 15 19:53:15 Verizon pumps Video over their Vcast service Dec 15 19:53:22 so it has to have some speed Dec 15 19:53:27 you can watch tv on your phone Dec 15 19:53:30 which is a bit overkill Dec 15 19:53:32 very very cool :) Dec 15 19:53:45 I'm learn a lot about the WiMax on Wiki. :) Dec 15 19:53:49 *learning Dec 15 19:53:57 I think if they limited you to 50mb on that service jesus Dec 15 19:54:01 you couldn't watch a show Dec 15 19:54:07 eheh Dec 15 19:54:14 Fang64: I cannot use youtube too ;) Dec 15 19:54:18 lol Dec 15 19:54:30 AT&T has similar services Dec 15 19:54:30 No more Chocolate RAIN!!! Dec 15 19:54:36 Fang64: but there are other data plans, for example... you get 5 Gb/week for only 20 euro/month Dec 15 19:54:37 problem with them they are crazy priced Dec 15 19:54:43 ah Dec 15 19:55:09 but... in this case you have to sign a contract with them for at least 2 years Dec 15 19:55:23 ah Dec 15 19:55:29 I believe you can get a Boost prepaid voice phone with tethering data for $12/mo Dec 15 19:56:12 yup Nextel has dataservice plans as well i believe they are a bit more though Dec 15 19:56:15 and so does sprint Dec 15 19:56:26 yeah, but they don't work with prepaid voice Dec 15 19:56:29 pay-as-you-go Dec 15 19:56:29 even though they are the same company everything is still a big mess Dec 15 19:56:35 yup Dec 15 19:56:39 they do? Dec 15 19:56:43 yah Dec 15 19:56:49 Nextel and Sprint both have data services Dec 15 19:56:57 well it's the same company two types of service Dec 15 19:57:03 one is over GSM the other is CDMA Dec 15 19:57:23 it's getting a bit mixed but it's still sort of split service Dec 15 19:57:31 how much? Dec 15 19:57:46 anyway... with 20 euro/month, 5 gb/week dataplan, you get 3,4 Mbit connection, don't forget it :) Dec 15 19:57:47 well for unlimited it was like 10$ a month but that isn't tethering Dec 15 19:57:59 that's just for wap access Dec 15 19:58:06 they have different plans Dec 15 19:58:14 like 50$ rate for unlimited Dec 15 19:58:20 at least last time I checked Dec 15 19:58:23 this was 3 years ago Dec 15 19:58:38 because you could use it as a broadband modem with a usb cable Dec 15 19:59:06 I'd like to find a cheap tethering setup and use one of those pocket wifi devices to share it out Dec 15 19:59:09 jesus it's went up Dec 15 19:59:14 60 dollars a month Dec 15 19:59:15 and keep it in the car Dec 15 19:59:16 yes... it's the thing I do with my N770 device :) offcourse via bluetooth ;) Dec 15 19:59:17 for unlimited service Dec 15 19:59:30 Nextel/Sprint = out of their minds Dec 15 19:59:31 lol Dec 15 19:59:43 40 dollars if you want 20mb limit Dec 15 20:03:20 andy80: s/n770/nokia 770/ Dec 15 20:04:04 yes.... Nokia 770, N800, N810.... just an abbreviation :) Dec 15 20:04:07 skibur Dec 15 20:04:09 skibur Dec 15 20:04:11 http://users.tamuk.edu/ksjas29/images/screenshot00.png Dec 15 20:09:59 blame nokia Dec 15 20:10:18 but please don't abbreviate that way Dec 15 20:10:27 nokia could easily make a product by that name Dec 15 20:10:59 their problem :) Dec 15 20:11:02 Er, I'm not going to be badgered on how to abbreviate things based on some corporation's possible trademark status, future or present. Dec 15 20:11:39 lol Dec 15 20:11:59 Did you also grow up correcting your friends when they said "Legos"? Dec 15 20:12:09 I hate repos with rogue packages been fighting with this error for 2 days now Dec 15 20:12:20 lol Dec 15 20:12:28 Alex look that- http://wolfgang-city.myminicity.com/ Dec 15 20:12:34 i correct my coworkers Dec 15 20:12:43 is that sufficient? Dec 15 20:14:05 Sounds like something for /msg or email then. Dec 15 20:17:09 if someone said they were using Debian Linux Dec 15 20:17:18 but they were actually using Red Hat Linux Dec 15 20:17:23 erm... does Skype support video conferencing on N800? Dec 15 20:17:23 would you correct them? Dec 15 20:17:27 no Dec 15 20:17:54 Tontsa: thanks for helping me out although it should have been common sense Dec 15 20:17:57 not on the n810 either for that matter Dec 15 20:18:14 oh, funny. I thought some version already supported it. It isn't critical anyway Dec 15 20:19:12 after thinking a bit about it, I'm starting to see the N810 as a bad proposition for a tinkerer: just one _micro_SD slot, integrated GPS receiver (that may or may not be turned off at will)... Dec 15 20:19:47 perhaps I'm rationalizing, but I find the ability of connecting things by Bluetooth on a whim a bit more interesting. Dec 15 20:19:59 not that it matters, though. Dec 15 20:20:16 I'm not going to buy the N810 any time soon yet. Dec 15 20:20:33 gomiam: that's your right Dec 15 20:20:40 and my left ;-) Dec 15 20:20:42 personally, i'd buy an n800 and a nice bt gps Dec 15 20:21:09 timeless: I already have. Now I have to ponder whether to get a Palm Bluetooth keyboard to round it all up Dec 15 20:24:09 I bought one of those new Apple Wireless keyboards (the thin/small one with full-sized keys) for my N800 and it ended up replacing the big IBM M keyboard for my desktop too. Dec 15 20:25:11 cool Dec 15 20:25:22 heh, comp usa are advertising the N810 as Nokia N810 Wireless Phone Dec 15 20:27:01 * timeless cries Dec 15 20:27:16 remind me on monday to contact someone here so we can complain Dec 15 20:27:53 SOLD OUT for delivery Dec 15 20:27:54 nice Dec 15 20:28:35 * timeless frowns Dec 15 20:28:40 their description of flash9 is wrong Dec 15 20:28:48 the flash9 we ship doesn't include camera Dec 15 20:28:53 or microphone Dec 15 20:29:17 oh man Dec 15 20:29:21 and the English is terrible Dec 15 20:29:24 * timeless curses Dec 15 20:29:33 can't they find a native speaker to at least proof read the text? Dec 15 20:30:03 they fired everyone, remember? Dec 15 20:30:33 i don't mean compusa Dec 15 20:30:35 i mean nokia Dec 15 20:31:15 ah Dec 15 20:32:03 product descriptions are always awlful and often wrong Dec 15 20:32:16 in NZ vodafone often get the spec's of the nokia phones wrong Dec 15 20:32:31 like they'll say it has a radio when it doesn't, or that it has wireless when it doesn't, etc Dec 15 20:33:02 are the n810's actually on sale? Dec 15 20:33:42 doublec: nz doesn't have consumer protection rules that enable you to sue or something? Dec 15 20:34:08 n810s have been on sale/sold out for weeks :) Dec 15 20:34:17 it's like Wii's, but w/ fewer stores Dec 15 20:34:18 :) Dec 15 20:34:21 timeless: we have a 'consumer guarantees act' that means you can take stuff back, get compensation, etc Dec 15 20:34:23 nice Dec 15 20:34:34 I'm in the US for two more days so was hoping to find a lone N810 somewhere Dec 15 20:34:44 good luck w/ that Dec 15 20:34:54 yes, it's proving a challenge :) Dec 15 20:35:00 * timeless suggests just having moco ship two back Dec 15 20:35:09 hmmm, good idea Dec 15 20:35:12 I'd be lost without my N800 literally Dec 15 20:35:31 maemo-mapper, bluetooth gps and google maps have helped me drive around here Dec 15 20:35:40 :) Dec 15 20:35:57 btw, you might consider http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/microb-pageupdown-0.1.deb Dec 15 20:35:57 even though I keep missing my freeway exits Dec 15 20:35:59 * Jaffa tries to find a suction or vent-clip for the back of an N810 car mount: screwing into my dashboard ain't never gonna happen. Dec 15 20:36:05 depending on how you use your browser Dec 15 20:36:10 and I didn't believe maemo mapper when it told me where my hotel was and drove around for ages Dec 15 20:36:11 timeless: you should upload that to extras-devel Dec 15 20:36:14 and it ended up being right Dec 15 20:36:18 jaffa: "how" :) Dec 15 20:37:01 doublec; heh Dec 15 20:37:07 you don't trust computers? :) Dec 15 20:37:14 definitely not :) Dec 15 20:37:34 who knew that e el camino real and w el camino real swap at random points along the road Dec 15 20:37:35 is it possible to get microb to launch mplayer? Dec 15 20:38:18 doublec: i could have told you that :) Dec 15 20:38:27 fysa: care to be more specific? Dec 15 20:38:42 'Media player' is the default app when I open an .avi Dec 15 20:38:49 hehe Dec 15 20:38:58 fysa: that's controlled by .desktop files Dec 15 20:39:32 basically if you change the media player file Dec 15 20:39:37 hum... I guess I will wait a little longer for the official OS2008 bin for N800. Dec 15 20:39:39 to claim less file types Dec 15 20:39:50 skibur: good for you Dec 15 20:40:13 fysa: alternatively, you could muck w/ the mime db which is generated from those files Dec 15 20:40:28 digging Dec 15 20:40:29 but it's definitely better to make sure the .desktop files don't stick around and regenerate them Dec 15 20:40:50 -> /usr/share/applications/[application_name].desktop Dec 15 20:40:52 fysa: give me info for where your mplayer .desktop file is, and i'll write a deb to "fix" this :) Dec 15 20:41:33 hmm Dec 15 20:41:35 http://slack.bglinux.org/050_mplayer/mplayer.desktop Dec 15 20:42:38 http://osdir.com/ml/video.mplayer.cvs/2006-09/msg00031.html Dec 15 20:42:57 we would want to specifiy the MimeType= in the .desktop for it to work properly? Dec 15 20:43:09 or is the mimedb relating MimeType with "Video" already? Dec 15 20:43:18 and just specifying "Video" is preferred? Dec 15 20:43:25 (Video, e.g., others also) Dec 15 20:44:21 will use both for now Dec 15 20:45:14 look at hildon/mp_ui.desktop Dec 15 20:45:39 would we want to replace that? Dec 15 20:45:46 define "replace" Dec 15 20:46:04 at the very least, your entry should probably list something similar to that Dec 15 20:46:06 If we have an mplayer.desktop that offers the same MimeTypes, would it conflict? or could we set priority? Dec 15 20:46:14 which clearly includes quite a few elements in MimeTypes= Dec 15 20:46:22 i dunno Dec 15 20:46:26 we'll see :) Dec 15 20:46:27 and i don't really feel like reading the source code Dec 15 20:46:30 good idea? :) Dec 15 20:46:32 yeah, don't sweat it. Dec 15 20:46:50 thanks for pointing me here, I'll figure it out and send you the .desktop file when I have it working smoothly. Dec 15 20:46:56 it will be very nice for mediaserv. Dec 15 20:47:05 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/maemo/source/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-desktop/src/ Dec 15 20:47:12 hrm Dec 15 20:47:18 no xref db? odd Dec 15 20:48:14 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/maemo/source/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-fm/ Dec 15 20:48:17 * timeless shrugs Dec 15 20:48:23 you can either try reading sources from there Dec 15 20:48:41 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/find?string=hildon Dec 15 20:48:43 is probably easier Dec 15 20:48:48 since it is actually indexed Dec 15 20:50:29 anyway, i think enough of that stuff is open source, you can probably figure out how it works Dec 15 20:50:39 note: priority should *not* be settable in .ini like files Dec 15 20:50:40 that's stupid Dec 15 20:50:47 everyone would say "i want priority 1" Dec 15 20:51:09 there *should* be a ui for dealing w/ that Dec 15 20:51:15 if there isn't one, file a bug :) Dec 15 20:52:00 usually handled by "Open with.. " and "[ ] Always open with" Dec 15 20:52:23 how does one deal w/ the case of "[x] already always opening with" :) Dec 15 20:52:32 simple minded developers :) Dec 15 20:52:35 you have to get into the settings (which I don't think we have) to reset it Dec 15 20:53:09 ugh, gmplauncher already makes an mplayer.desktop Dec 15 20:53:14 but it runs gmplauncher instead. Dec 15 20:53:20 * timeless rotfl Dec 15 20:53:53 mplayer_ui.desktop :/ Dec 15 20:54:03 files are great Dec 15 20:54:28 especially conflicts in system directories Dec 15 20:56:25 ahhh battery just died, auto-hibernate Dec 15 21:16:09 hi Dec 15 21:16:20 Interesting choice of name. Dec 15 21:16:44 do you think that this object is compatible with the N800/N810? : http://www.powerpal.fr/UI/Templates/ProductSpace/Product.aspx?Product=23&Family=16 Dec 15 21:21:12 Probably. Dec 15 21:21:23 If it's compatible with newish Nokia handsets it will be. Dec 15 21:22:36 n810 is atleast using the standard smaller-plug charger Dec 15 21:22:38 so should be Dec 15 21:23:25 All the tablets use the standard charger socket .. Dec 15 21:23:35 but there is only 2 batteries of 1.5v, I think that is not suffisant tu use the N800, no? Dec 15 21:24:03 The 770,N800,N810 use a 3.3v Li-Ion battery. Dec 15 21:24:14 If it works with other Nokia products, it'll work with the tablets. Dec 15 21:24:34 great, I think I will buy one Dec 15 21:28:23 * timeless looks for a russian speaker Dec 15 21:28:31 * timeless is trying to verify that an email is spam Dec 15 21:29:51 My new desktop is so sweet :D Dec 15 21:29:59 An online Russian-English translator isn't enough? Dec 15 21:29:59 new desktop? Dec 15 21:30:08 Probably beats my tablet as the best purchase of this year .. Dec 15 21:30:18 Actually, it doesn't. The desktop was free .. Dec 15 21:31:00 Just finished installing and customizing it. Dec 15 21:31:01 http://alterego.freeshell.org/ubuntu-64-20071215-211528.png Dec 15 21:31:35 * timeless wonders how well spam translates Dec 15 21:33:08 hello there Dec 15 21:33:13 any lurkers around? Dec 15 21:33:26 * timeless looks aroudn Dec 15 21:33:36 nothing here but us chickens? Dec 15 21:33:43 :) Dec 15 21:33:55 I'm on the N800/N810 dilemma... Dec 15 21:33:58 * alterego sets up the maemo SDK in a KVM VE Dec 15 21:34:04 generally lurkers don't talk Dec 15 21:34:08 (But just opened my new N800) Dec 15 21:34:43 I tried to upgrade to N810 but got a "invalid product key" when trying to download the stuff Dec 15 21:35:17 upgrade to n810 ? wow I want to do that too... Dec 15 21:35:29 Yeah .. Wish I had _that_ product key :D Dec 15 21:35:31 n810 is hardware Dec 15 21:35:31 so you add hardware keyboard by software updater? Dec 15 21:35:47 you don't want an n810 flash Dec 15 21:36:15 the os is something like it os 2008 Dec 15 21:36:26 isn't os2008 anyway distributed as free upgrade for n800 soon Dec 15 21:36:39 and at this time if you can't figure out how to get the beta, you shouldn't Dec 15 21:36:53 because it'll be a disappointment Dec 15 21:37:48 timeless: sorry I meant upgrade to OS2008 Dec 15 21:38:09 tontsa: it is already Dec 15 21:38:15 it isn't Dec 15 21:38:25 there's a beta Dec 15 21:38:26 timeless: ? Dec 15 21:38:32 timeless: yes Dec 15 21:38:46 but if you can't find it, you shouldn't use it\ Dec 15 21:38:58 timeless: why do you mean it will be a disappointment? Dec 15 21:39:07 timeless: (I found it) Dec 15 21:39:20 depends on what you use, but there are some relatively painful bugs... Dec 15 21:39:28 like? Dec 15 21:39:46 bz_g: there is this pesky nemathode... Dec 15 21:39:51 oh, you don't mean that kind of bugs Dec 15 21:39:55 timeless: do you mean bugs for the N800 0S2008 release of for the 0S2008 in general ? Dec 15 21:40:29 I'm still hesitating between N800 and N810 Dec 15 21:40:30 technically in general, in practice it's more of a problem for n800 Dec 15 21:40:35 what i've used retail n810 now for 2 days only bug so far i've found is the unreliable bluetooth packet data via Nokia E70 Dec 15 21:40:42 they're fixed in the final os2008 for n800 Dec 15 21:40:46 but that doesn't exist yet Dec 15 21:41:10 ok Dec 15 21:41:21 anyone here who tried both N800 and N810 ? Dec 15 21:41:34 my concern: i'd like to install Emacs (maybe 23) on it Dec 15 21:41:56 and I wonder if N8[01]0 is suitable for Emacs Dec 15 21:42:20 (I can't imagine using Emacs without a physical keyboard...) Dec 15 21:42:27 any Emacsers here? Dec 15 21:43:44 ... Dec 15 21:43:57 did I say something wr0ng ? Dec 15 21:45:44 emacs really isn't suitable. It's too big and it's not really designed for touch screen user interface. Dec 15 21:46:32 alterego: thanks. Dec 15 21:46:51 alterego: but then, is it somewhat suitable for the N810 with its physical keyboard? Dec 15 21:47:12 i'm happy with my N810, using vim and joe editors Dec 15 21:47:21 never been much of an emacs fan Dec 15 21:47:45 I like emacs, I use it for most things. It's just very big to stick on a small device like the Internet Tablets. Dec 15 21:48:12 Sure, having a hardware thumb-board is better than using the onscreen keyboard. But that goes with text entry in all applications. That has nothing to do with emacs itself. Dec 15 21:48:26 alterego: and let's not forget the ease of clicking Contorl repeatedly ;-) Dec 15 21:48:36 Control, even Dec 15 21:48:42 alterego: right. Dec 15 21:49:12 Yeah, there's no ctrl key on the VKB .. Dec 15 21:49:16 someone is using an usb keyboard with n800 ? Dec 15 21:49:24 tontsa: but are you always typing with the physical keyboard? Dec 15 21:49:28 p|: is that even possible? Dec 15 21:49:30 p|, several people :) Dec 15 21:49:31 bz_g, yep Dec 15 21:49:34 yes Dec 15 21:49:49 using the xterm in fullscreen and installed the Google Android fonts Dec 15 21:49:51 oh. Do you mind giving me a reference link? Dec 15 21:49:53 those fonts just rock Dec 15 21:49:54 i want to buy one Dec 15 21:50:09 tontsa: and do you need lots of keys chords (C-M-[key]) ? Dec 15 21:50:25 but unsure about the model Dec 15 21:50:35 bz_g, using ctrl-a and ctrl-k combos all the time (screen and joe) Dec 15 21:52:19 Oh neat. I can use VMWare images with KVM. Dec 15 21:53:57 i think you can use vmware images with any virtualization software that uses qemu Dec 15 21:55:01 Yes, it just didn't occur to me that I'd have that flexibility :) Dec 15 21:55:09 ok :) Dec 15 21:55:29 I can use VMWare Player images without VMWare player :) And run them a lot faster ^_^ Dec 15 21:58:42 does keyboard and/or mouse work when connected to an usb hub ? Dec 15 21:58:50 Yes Dec 15 21:59:00 (Keyboard definitely, not used a Mouse at all) Dec 15 21:59:24 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=108144&postcount=165 Dec 15 21:59:34 because i've read this Dec 15 22:00:32 Odd. Dec 15 22:00:47 ok :) so now i need a _VERY_ little powered usb hub Dec 15 22:01:00 You can pick them up for ~40 USD Dec 15 22:01:08 and a god little usb keyboard Dec 15 22:01:18 good* Dec 15 22:01:21 Yeah, I bought a 21" wide USB keyboard. Dec 15 22:01:40 21" = cm ? ;-) Dec 15 22:02:02 that hardly qualifies as little Dec 15 22:02:19 Oh .. cm yeah ^_^ Dec 15 22:02:22 Heh Dec 15 22:02:30 I'm a giant ;) Dec 15 22:02:42 for now i haven't found any little or foldable usb keyboard Dec 15 22:06:18 why would you want a usb keyboard when you can get a foldable bt one for 40 euros? Dec 15 22:10:01 because i hope usb keyboard are better ? :) Dec 15 22:10:40 now i have a dell XTBT01 (bluetooth) Dec 15 22:11:02 but it didn't work very well Dec 15 22:11:56 many times ENTER,BACKSPACE and other keys stop to work Dec 15 22:12:09 i must restar the tablet to make them work again Dec 15 22:12:16 don't know why Dec 15 22:12:30 restart* Dec 15 22:12:36 you using generic keyboard profile? Dec 15 22:12:39 or the nokia profile> Dec 15 22:12:48 generic Dec 15 22:12:58 I think a different bt keyboard would suit you. Dec 15 22:13:17 i've see also the apple one Dec 15 22:13:23 I don't experience that problem -- from time to time a key will stick for a second, and the response time isn't quite as quick as it should be Dec 15 22:13:34 i.e., using same bt keyboard with PC feels 'instant' Dec 15 22:14:26 fysa, this is why i hope usb keyb. will be better Dec 15 22:16:43 autocompletion seems to still be on Dec 15 22:17:06 I wish I could keep that off for real keyboard at all times, and only have it set for vkb. Dec 15 22:17:40 it could be a power saving bt mode. Dec 15 22:20:17 i propose that granularity over the little controls (ie: AutoUpper, AutoSpace) that power users want to get to should be unveiled when Red Pill mode is activated. that way, Nokia can Keep It Simple for the Joe Sixpack, and we get more felxibility Dec 15 22:20:47 I really think the key is, whatever keyboard you select, use a similar layout/keyspacing on your desktop machine(s) and your life will be more enjoyable. Dec 15 22:21:19 though I can't imagine ever trying to learn a frogpad for desktop use. ;) Dec 15 22:21:44 i meant for behavior across the entire device. Dec 15 22:21:57 agreed. Dec 15 22:22:12 in other words, open up more control of the closed source stuff via Red Pill mode Dec 15 22:22:45 it IS what the brothers meant by the Red Pill, isn't it? Dec 15 22:29:34 using the xterm in fullscreen and installed the Google Android fonts Dec 15 22:29:36 where ? Dec 15 22:30:40 p|: http://benno.id.au/android/system.tar.gz and copy the system/fonts to /usr/share/fonts and restart n810 Dec 15 22:31:11 Should .deb that puppy, eh? Dec 15 22:31:20 prolly Dec 15 22:31:45 very good looking monospace font for terminal usage Dec 15 22:33:34 Toni_: thx for that, great tip Dec 15 22:35:01 ooo Dec 15 22:35:06 Toni_: droid-mono? Dec 15 22:35:12 er, tontsa rather Dec 15 22:35:37 tontsa, work also on n800 w/os2008 ? Dec 15 22:35:47 no reason it shouldn't Dec 15 22:35:59 should work on any computer that supports truetype fonts Dec 15 22:36:41 dragorn, there's only one monospace font there so i think yes. don't have n810 right now with me Dec 15 22:37:03 tontsa: droid-mono is an excellent font, for whatever reason I hadn't considered putting it on the 8x0 Dec 15 22:44:20 18mb of font ;-) Dec 15 22:58:05 Anyone got one of the I-Go stoaway keyboards? If so do i do a regular BT pairing or do I need to do the pairing from the control panel->bt keyboard menu entry? Dec 15 23:47:12 no videocenter for os2008 yet? Dec 15 23:47:37 tontsa, fonts look really well also at 8pt :) Dec 15 23:47:40 thanks Dec 15 23:49:25 There is no date set for discount code activation, but Qgil says he expects them next week Dec 15 23:49:30 also no working mPlayer Dec 15 23:49:38 mplayer is out for os2008 and works Dec 15 23:49:42 the test package seems to be missing a dependency Dec 15 23:49:47 using it regularly here Dec 15 23:49:57 fysa: URL? Dec 15 23:49:58 Where is it hidden :-)? Dec 15 23:51:04 fysa: the dependency appears to be libmad0 >= 0.15.0 or so... Dec 15 23:51:15 did you setup the proper repositories? Dec 15 23:51:35 I'm not going to setup the whole extras dev repository Dec 15 23:51:41 hold on Dec 15 23:51:52 I just need the det of dependencies for mplayer Dec 15 23:52:00 .. they're defined in the .,deb Dec 15 23:52:02 can't afford to have all the other dev brokenness Dec 15 23:52:05 what?. Dec 15 23:52:06 dev is fine. Dec 15 23:52:17 dispite all the warnings... Dec 15 23:52:18 nothing broken because of adding dev Dec 15 23:52:19 oh Dec 15 23:52:32 I have ever repository available and have no ill results Dec 15 23:52:40 docs suggest lots of the dev apps are quite incomplete Dec 15 23:52:47 having the repo won't kill you. Dec 15 23:52:54 installing things randomly might Dec 15 23:52:58 except if I do an update carelessly Dec 15 23:53:07 without disabling it Dec 15 23:53:09 but mplayer will work fine, and most apps will complain. Dec 15 23:53:32 yeah, I suppose so... Dec 15 23:53:34 I update from Application Catalog fine. Dec 15 23:53:55 and apt-get dist-upgrade won't work anyway Dec 15 23:54:07 neither will apt-get upgrade Dec 15 23:54:35 while I have you here, The default root password seems to have changed as of OS2008 Dec 15 23:55:01 I tried SSHing in and rootme doesn't work Dec 15 23:55:12 the recommendation I've seen is to use gainroot. Dec 15 23:55:16 from an old repo Dec 15 23:55:25 (it's just a script, so it's not platform specific) Dec 15 23:55:46 the becomeroot package Dec 15 23:55:51 so remote login as root has been disabled? Dec 15 23:55:54 no Dec 15 23:55:58 install becomeroot Dec 15 23:56:01 and it will request you to set a root password Dec 15 23:56:15 one sec Dec 15 23:56:23 http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/mistral/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb Dec 15 23:56:33 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/30919 Dec 15 23:56:37 context Dec 15 23:56:37 my point being, I found it mroe reliable to just login remotely as root( in OS2007) and update /etc/sudoers. No need for gainroot Dec 15 23:56:40 'night all ! Dec 15 23:56:43 I guess that's changed in 2008 Dec 15 23:56:48 what? Dec 15 23:56:50 I login remotely as root. Dec 15 23:56:52 it's fine. Dec 15 23:56:55 you only sudo gainroot for local xterm Dec 15 23:57:02 yeah Dec 15 23:57:04 that is the new default operation. Dec 15 23:57:06 exactly my point Dec 15 23:57:12 no Dec 15 23:57:19 you can still update /etc/sudoers Dec 15 23:57:26 you just need gainroot to get root the first time Dec 15 23:57:32 as you say, I should be able to login remotely as root without issue Dec 15 23:57:44 listen, this is what you need to do: Dec 15 23:57:45 install that deb Dec 15 23:57:46 run it Dec 15 23:57:48 set a root password Dec 15 23:58:00 then you can ssh TO your N800/whatever with root and that password. Dec 15 23:58:05 no sudo with ssh Dec 15 23:58:05 I get it. I'm just suprised it's needed in 2008 and wasn't in 2007 Dec 15 23:58:16 no big deal. I'll go through gainroot Dec 15 23:58:30 with 2007 you had to set R&D mode otherwise Dec 15 23:58:42 strangely, I didn't have to Dec 15 23:58:43 there is no need to R&D mode with 2008 from what I see Dec 15 23:58:50 K Dec 15 23:58:58 I couldn't 'sudo gainroot' or get root any way without installing becomeroot Dec 15 23:59:05 or setting red pill(?)/R&D Dec 15 23:59:24 there are inconsistencies, but at this level nothing is going to hurt anyone Dec 15 23:59:26 You were doing it wrong then :P Dec 15 23:59:34 guess the difference is, root account starts out locked in 2008, whereas it didn't in 2007 Dec 15 23:59:44 I had r&d enabled, changed the root password and the user password. Then disabled r&d Dec 15 23:59:45 right, and isn't it still to have root open? Dec 15 23:59:51 er, isn't it silly? Dec 16 00:00:16 depends what you're doing I suppose Dec 16 00:00:26 anyway... Dec 16 00:00:31 * hillct grabs gainroot Dec 16 00:00:32 for 80% of users who don't know what root means Dec 16 00:00:59 You really think that 80% of maemo users _don't_ know what 'root' means .. Dec 16 00:01:06 yes. Dec 16 00:01:18 I think that's naive. Sure, in the future it should be like that but it's blatantly not the case now .. Dec 16 00:01:23 you don't think they can make a market out of people with linux/unix knowledge, do you? Dec 16 00:01:25 users are - on the whole - stupid Dec 16 00:01:38 it's naive to think most maemo users are as savvy as us. Dec 16 00:02:05 I still think the highest selling point is the fact it runs Linux for a lot of people. Dec 16 00:02:07 what's truly iritating though.... Dec 16 00:02:14 certainly, but that's a different market Dec 16 00:02:22 That's the current market. Dec 16 00:02:28 according to? Dec 16 00:02:34 My guess Dec 16 00:02:34 atleast over here n8x0 is marketed as ebook reader/webbrowser/media player Dec 16 00:02:47 is I was asked to help a neighbor yesterday, with her Vista PC. I hadn't used Windoze since Win2K Dec 16 00:02:49 scary Dec 16 00:02:52 very scary Dec 16 00:03:03 you can't market this as a linux device, no one would buy it and they couldn't afford to produce it. Dec 16 00:03:16 Who said anything about marketing? Dec 16 00:03:31 I'm suprised they can afford to produce it as is... Dec 16 00:03:34 only marketing i've seen is word of mouth Dec 16 00:03:49 I'm trying to point out that the majority of current maemo users probably know what 'root' is. Dec 16 00:03:56 here is how it works: 1) identify the desired market 2) produce for the desired market 3) market for the desired market 4) sell to the desired market -- if 4 doesn't work, adjust #2 or #3 Dec 16 00:04:04 I'd say 80% of maemo users know what 'root' is. Which is the opposite of what you said. Dec 16 00:04:07 look at who they are marketing to, and you will see who they WANT to sell it to. Dec 16 00:04:18 they may know the word 'root' Dec 16 00:04:32 but they don't know that if someone can gain root on your device, they can access /media/mmc1, /home/user, /media/mmc2 Dec 16 00:04:39 browser cache Dec 16 00:04:45 email account settings Dec 16 00:04:50 They can do that as 'user' .. Dec 16 00:04:51 alterego: you're probably correct but that's only due to a failure of marketing, not a function of the adverage inteligence of consumer electronics customers Dec 16 00:05:15 my point is that leaving root open is a bad idea. Dec 16 00:05:16 hillct, sure. But that's not really the point :P Dec 16 00:05:22 Yes, I agree. Dec 16 00:05:25 because most people don't understand the implications. Dec 16 00:05:27 Leaving root open is a bad idea :) Dec 16 00:05:28 alterego: I know Dec 16 00:05:46 I was just trying to be Agreeable :) Dec 16 00:05:51 Hah Dec 16 00:05:59 Agreeable with a capital 'A'! :D Dec 16 00:06:09 hey Dec 16 00:06:19 at least I spelled it correctly Dec 16 00:06:35 remember, the average inteligence of consumer electronics customers... Dec 16 00:06:43 I think we all know that Nokia want the internet tablets to be mass market devices for everyone. And in the future I think they've got a good chance. The platform has matured greatly over the past 3 years. Dec 16 00:07:16 The biggest problem for them, from what I can see. Is the amount of quality software. Dec 16 00:07:32 * shackan agrees Dec 16 00:07:32 and the maturity of Voip Dec 16 00:07:34 definitely. Dec 16 00:08:14 It took Palm a at least 4 years to develop a large enough developer base Dec 16 00:08:27 I'm thinking they'll probably need to employ a few more application developers to beef up their software list. Dec 16 00:08:36 they went through three generations of hardware in that time Dec 16 00:08:46 it's too bad there's ie. a webcam and no way to make video calls (unless you have gtalk, but I know nobody who does) Dec 16 00:08:51 hillct, sounds quite similar to how Nokia are moving now. Dec 16 00:09:00 Though the N8X0's are pretty much the same generation. Dec 16 00:09:03 pretty much Dec 16 00:09:06 Actually, scrap that. Dec 16 00:09:16 The N810 is the next gen, it has a keyboard and GPS. Dec 16 00:09:26 er pretty much the same growth pattern Dec 16 00:09:31 I'd say that's enough to push it into the next stage of evolution. Dec 16 00:09:35 without the extra investment in hardware Dec 16 00:09:36 .. where the GPS is totally botched Dec 16 00:09:47 I disagree. Dec 16 00:09:50 I think the GPS sounds good. Dec 16 00:09:58 But I don't have an N810 .. Yet .. Dec 16 00:10:00 it sounds good, but it doesn't work in real life Dec 16 00:10:09 O_o Dec 16 00:10:11 How so? Dec 16 00:10:17 atleast i still haven't been able to lock on more than 3 satellites with it Dec 16 00:10:31 and when comparing to bluetooth gps dongle it just sucks Dec 16 00:10:39 There have been a few complaints. But I've also heard people that are very happy with it. Dec 16 00:11:27 hola Dec 16 00:11:43 well it's totally unusable atleast in urban environment, where the nokia's regular gps dongle performs just fine Dec 16 00:12:15 I'd guess they use the same reciever .. Dec 16 00:12:54 no clue what chip is inside n810, but it's bad. or the antenna is bad Dec 16 00:13:05 It's not bad. Dec 16 00:13:09 It's a good chip. Dec 16 00:14:04 Hmm, VM's are quite a bit slower when running under 64 bit hipervisor :/ Dec 16 00:14:13 Great .. Another damn reinstall -_- Dec 16 00:15:01 well you need one more level of pagetables to support 64bit so it doesn't come as a huge surprise Dec 16 00:15:56 It seems _very_ sluggish .. Dec 16 00:16:19 you prolly run some onboard SATA right? Dec 16 00:16:46 A single SATA 250G drive. Dec 16 00:17:21 I don't see what that has to do with a performance hit when moving from 32 to 64 bit :P Dec 16 00:17:35 yeah could be the disk access too then, atleast in my experience the ich5/6 drivers suck in 64bit Dec 16 00:18:05 Wouldn't that effect my host system as well? Dec 16 00:18:19 yep Dec 16 00:18:34 Well, my host system seems to run fine .. Dec 16 00:19:01 why did you switch to 64bit? Dec 16 00:19:08 Felt like it .. Dec 16 00:19:18 Seems a waste having a 64 bit CPU and not using it :P Dec 16 00:19:53 well if you have intel or amd "64" bit cpu then it's just few registers that are 64bit, otherwise it's pretty much illusion Dec 16 00:20:03 and you only see real benefit in math intensive stuff Dec 16 00:20:14 Hmm, Dec 16 00:20:21 Yeah. It's a Core2Duo Dec 16 00:21:12 otherwise it's just waste to have 4 megabyte block sized memory compared to 4kilobyte units.. unless of course you have more than 16 gigs and wanna use it well Dec 16 00:21:58 So you think it's pointless using 64 distro then? Dec 16 00:22:07 you can use 64-bit instructions without using 4MB pages Dec 16 00:22:12 those two things are orthogonal Dec 16 00:22:42 yeah you can, but the benefit is marginal in most real life situations Dec 16 00:23:15 x86-64 is definitely a pile of tradeoffs, though ... you get quite a few more general purpose registers (relative to the anemic x86 instruction set), but you double the size of pointers and have longer instructions Dec 16 00:23:23 I should probably run some benchmarks to be sure really. Dec 16 00:23:30 alterago, atleast i think so. if you don't have more than 16 gigs of memory of specific tasks where you need the memory or "math" bandwidth Dec 16 00:23:47 Okay Dec 16 00:23:47 very few things actually benefit from 64-bit math, yeah Dec 16 00:23:55 but you *do* get more registers Dec 16 00:23:57 which is Good Dec 16 00:24:19 But you get slow hipervised VM's .. Which is bad .. Dec 16 00:24:34 I plan on using KVM extensively. Dec 16 00:25:18 I don't know why that would be the case, particularly, but I don't follow the VM scene, so it may be Dec 16 00:25:38 It's a _lot_ slower .. Dec 16 00:25:46 i'm guessing you need to restore more state between the VMs when in 64bit Dec 16 00:26:37 Yes, that would be my guess too. Dec 16 00:26:50 of course -- if nothing else, you have 4x or more data in the register file Dec 16 00:26:57 Though, I wouldn't have thought it would have created this much over head. Dec 16 00:27:03 but I don't know what that would make it a "_lot_" slower -- there must be more to it Dec 16 00:27:19 This is a 32bit guest in a 64bit hipervisor. Dec 16 00:33:13 Any software that uses enough pointers that doubling them matters much deserves what it gets. Dec 16 00:34:28 It's usually not the 64bit math but the 64bit memory. Dec 16 00:35:48 I can *easily* fill 2GB or even 20GB with image data. I work with jet engine engineering routines that need many gigs of lookup tables. Dec 16 00:36:24 Yeah, no kidding. Dec 16 00:36:45 But most of that data isn't pointers! Dec 16 00:37:26 I find my software tends to run quite a bit faster on 64-bit systems. Dec 16 00:37:39 Do you use KVM or Xen? Dec 16 00:37:43 No. Dec 16 00:37:48 What processor? Dec 16 00:37:55 fysa: gainroot worked like a champ Dec 16 00:38:03 Doesn't matter. Dec 16 00:38:17 I'm just curious :P Dec 16 00:38:28 Well, I first noticed it on the original 64-bit Athlons. Dec 16 00:38:38 still not clear on why I was able to login as root without it or R&D mode using OS2007. Guess it doesn't much matter Dec 16 00:38:43 What kind of apps do you normally run? Dec 16 00:38:47 But it holds just as well on the Core2's. Dec 16 00:38:58 alterego: I'm talking about software I write. Dec 16 00:39:03 Ah Dec 16 00:39:12 I don't benchmark random applications. Dec 16 00:39:28 I can't say I've noticed much performance difference between 32 and 64 on this, (except the virtualization stuff) Dec 16 00:39:45 It all seems fast to me ^_^ Dec 16 00:40:01 Considering my previous machine was a crappy old 1.2Ghz Sempron Dec 16 00:40:09 Well, the typical desktop user's CPU spends 99% of its time idle. Dec 16 00:40:22 Yes, I've noticed that ^_^ Dec 16 00:40:31 My graph applet is all black .. Dec 16 00:41:28 Looks like I'm gonna have to use express delivery if I want my N810 before Christmas now .. Dec 16 00:41:43 That's provided the codes are activated before the 19th. Dec 16 00:42:06 I'd very much like to get mine by then, since I'm going out of town on the 26th. Dec 16 00:42:50 I'd love to get it by Christmas eve .. As I tend to get drunk and lost a lot at that time of year ^_^ Dec 16 00:44:04 and what on earth would you do while drunk on a tablet? Dec 16 00:44:13 Do what I did. Dec 16 00:44:18 Drunk dial from the bar. Dec 16 00:44:22 Over and over again. Dec 16 00:44:30 use it to watch porn of course... Dec 16 00:44:35 you sir, are a major nerd Dec 16 00:44:46 me? Dec 16 00:44:54 alcohol+tablet = dropped tablet :/ Dec 16 00:45:45 still no canola2 :( Dec 16 00:46:01 maybe they need a loop for a lanyard in the next hardware so it can reliably be used when drunk Dec 16 00:46:16 because after all, that's when the GPS is most valuable Dec 16 00:46:17 Luckily the drops my tablet has had to endure have been very soft landings :) Dec 16 00:47:52 ih Dec 16 01:19:09 Does anyone know if a 6110 navigator can be used with a 770 as a GPS device? Dec 16 02:19:24 does vnc work well on the n800? Dec 16 02:19:46 and does x forwarding work on the n800? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 16 03:00:02 2007