**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 10 02:59:57 2008 Jan 10 03:05:35 should this theoretically cause some event to get triggered that dims the screen: dbus-send --system /com/nokia/bme/signal com.nokia.bme.signal.charger_disconnected Jan 10 03:05:39 It's well worth it to have python on the device. Jan 10 03:06:56 and here I thought python was part of the base system Jan 10 03:07:08 Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "charger_charging_off" with signature "" on interface "com.nokia.bme.signal" doesn't exist Jan 10 03:07:26 elb, I don't think so, but it was in the first three installs I did. Jan 10 03:07:44 I can't really tell, from scratchbox, what is the base system and what isn't Jan 10 03:07:50 * elb cuts letstalk.com with a knife Jan 10 03:10:33 Be nice if Application Manager would show you new entries. Jan 10 03:11:50 Or at least a rss feed of new downloads, particularly w/garage Jan 10 03:27:08 any new (As of this year) apps that I should know about, or updates to old ones for OS08 Jan 10 03:27:09 ? Jan 10 03:28:37 Vulc|Sick, refresh App Manager and look around. :P Jan 10 03:29:04 Yeah, its not liking me tonight Jan 10 03:29:37 I also found my n800 case (The sleeve that came with it) is tearing :( Jan 10 03:32:15 Holy crap, theres a dosbox port? Jan 10 03:32:38 Has been for a long timee Jan 10 03:32:42 * Vulc|Sick should try to get keen working or something. Jan 10 03:32:47 Not on 08 Jan 10 03:32:56 Though, last I checked the app manager was december Jan 10 03:36:25 Er, now app manager is crashing with everything Jan 10 03:36:32 restarting to see if that fixes Jan 10 03:36:48 Current version of Peekaboo does not work properly behind NAT. To be able to stream to internet, your N800 should have public ip address. Jan 10 03:37:32 how do i give my N800 a public IP address if its 1 of 4 computers behind the router Jan 10 03:38:08 or do they mean pubilc ip as in the 192.168.x.x Jan 10 03:38:11 ?? Jan 10 03:38:49 got this thing running on os2008 but i can't get it to stream for the life of me. Jan 10 03:39:35 its actually streaming. but my notebook won't pick up the stream. and the only problem i can think of is this public ip crap. Jan 10 03:39:40 anyone, Jan 10 03:41:51 can't stream inside your own LAN? Jan 10 03:41:52 unique311: it means you need multiple public IP addresses from your ISP, one of which should not be natted Jan 10 03:42:10 unique311: if those docs are correct and you're trying to stream from outside of your private network Jan 10 03:42:18 or you can just do a little port forwarding Jan 10 03:42:34 johnx: Maybe. Unless it does dynamic port selection or something. Jan 10 03:42:40 ah Jan 10 03:42:41 johnx: I'd *hope* if it was that simple they'd document it Jan 10 03:42:50 johnx: But I don't know what he's doing, so what do I know? :) Jan 10 03:43:01 I haven't looked at it yet Jan 10 03:43:09 * johnx looks Jan 10 03:43:44 dragorn, yes and no Jan 10 03:43:52 unique311: if you're streaming from one computer to another on your internal network, then it shouldn't matter Jan 10 03:43:55 i was trying to stream withing my network Jan 10 03:44:08 with the default 192.168.1.x:port Jan 10 03:44:14 that doesn't seem to want to work Jan 10 03:44:21 there shouldn't be any NAT between two systems on your internal net Jan 10 03:44:24 but then at the bottom of the tutorial page Jan 10 03:44:33 it states the latest build doesn Jan 10 03:44:34 t Jan 10 03:44:44 work behind NAT Jan 10 03:45:07 ok Jan 10 03:45:43 so its a problem with the recieving end? it looks like peekaboo is streaming Jan 10 03:45:51 tried it from the command line, no errors Jan 10 03:46:09 what they mean is it doesn't work THROUGH nat. Unless it thinks it needs to talk to some server on the internet to stream to a local system. Jan 10 03:47:10 johnx, i already set up port forwarding. Jan 10 03:47:30 install more codecs. Jan 10 03:47:40 not sure why its not working now. Jan 10 03:48:11 then again, maybe thats why the devs didn't bother porting it to os2008 Jan 10 03:48:20 I thought you were trying to access it from the internet Jan 10 03:48:38 well yes, after the local failure. Jan 10 03:49:32 but that doesn't make sense, if it fails within a local area network...don't see why it would work from the internet. Jan 10 03:50:29 yup Jan 10 03:51:44 ok this is where i'm at....i start peekaboo on the device. Jan 10 03:52:11 then on my notebook i point firefox to the ip:port that shows up in peekaboo Jan 10 03:52:18 it goes to the address. Jan 10 03:52:21 nice gui Jan 10 03:52:32 so its streaming right? Jan 10 03:53:16 when i stop peekaboo, the ip:port fails Jan 10 03:53:28 ip : port Jan 10 03:53:32 penguinbait, did you understand the font issue? Jan 10 03:53:41 he just left skibur Jan 10 03:53:59 ;) Jan 10 03:54:05 ;( Jan 10 03:56:34 i checked the vlc_streaming_server file. <-- which is a config file i think. Jan 10 03:56:37 http://pastebin.ca/848978 Jan 10 03:58:01 should i try another VCODEC? Jan 10 03:58:12 it was set to wmv2 Jan 10 03:58:25 tried mp4v Jan 10 03:58:27 ogg Jan 10 03:58:37 and now avi Jan 10 03:58:44 same result with all of them. Jan 10 03:58:46 black screen Jan 10 04:17:30 i have no idea unique311 Jan 10 04:30:14 its streaming Jan 10 04:30:21 just don't think the recieving end is working Jan 10 04:30:26 which is the notebook Jan 10 04:30:52 i don't get it. Jan 10 04:31:21 anyone want to try it. Jan 10 04:32:06 see if they can get it to work Jan 10 04:36:12 http://www.divshare.com/download/3410883-3d7 Jan 10 04:36:21 lemme know if ya get it working. Jan 10 04:36:42 is that deb for 2008 or 2007? Jan 10 04:37:11 2008 Jan 10 04:38:01 will download and tell you how it works here Jan 10 04:43:03 johnx, install will complain about libvorbisidec1 libmad and libogg. Jan 10 04:44:39 remove them if you have them installed, and when you run dpkg -i peek*.deb it will install those 3 libraries. Jan 10 04:45:51 when i get it to work, i will try to compile it where it use the lib from the repository, instead of the ones that were built with it. Jan 10 04:46:23 is the package you linked different from the one on the site in some way? Jan 10 04:48:09 no Jan 10 04:48:20 i downloaded the source from the garage. Jan 10 04:48:30 and ran some commands. Jan 10 04:48:32 uhm...this is for 2007 Jan 10 04:48:41 no Jan 10 04:48:43 or yours is actually for 2008? Jan 10 04:48:51 the 2007 version will not work for os2008 Jan 10 04:49:04 right, so you compiled it for 2008? Jan 10 04:49:06 so i had to rebuild it for 2008 Jan 10 04:49:08 yes Jan 10 04:49:18 ah, so it is different than the one on the site :) Jan 10 04:49:39 well if different means compile for os2008 then yes Jan 10 04:49:48 sorry I was unclear Jan 10 04:50:08 cool Jan 10 04:51:06 there was code for initializing dvd cd divices that was keeping it from compiling. Jan 10 04:51:25 made some changes...but i dont think thats why it acting up. Jan 10 04:52:05 like i said its seems to be working. when i point the browser to the the stream address, it connects. Jan 10 04:52:11 just get a black screen. Jan 10 04:52:29 i am running vista on this notebook. Jan 10 04:52:36 ubuntu inside of vmware Jan 10 04:54:06 hmm Jan 10 04:54:21 this really needs to get repackaged at some point Jan 10 04:54:29 overwriting random libraries = not cool Jan 10 04:55:53 true Jan 10 04:56:19 I can't even connect to it :/ Jan 10 04:57:30 you forward the ports Jan 10 04:57:41 8080 and 8888 Jan 10 04:57:48 I'm inside a LAN Jan 10 04:58:01 same here. Jan 10 04:58:23 you said it connected for you? Jan 10 04:58:27 still had to forward the ports Jan 10 04:58:28 yes Jan 10 04:58:37 there's nowhere to forward them *to* Jan 10 04:59:37 go to port forward. 8080 and 8888 to device ip Jan 10 04:59:39 tcp Jan 10 04:59:47 ing Jan 10 05:00:03 it doesn't make sense to forward ports inside a LAN. it doesn't do anything Jan 10 05:00:54 it doesn't, but is what i had to do in order to make the it work. Jan 10 05:00:57 hold on. Jan 10 05:04:45 i remove the it the 2 forwards (8080 and 8888 to device ip) doesn't want to connect. Jan 10 05:05:28 I can pretty much tell you for a fact that peekaboo doesn't even get the port allocated Jan 10 05:05:55 re-added them and it connects. Jan 10 05:06:01 so why is that^^^? Jan 10 05:06:18 when you connect from your laptop does it give you a page or just a black screen? Jan 10 05:07:08 a page Jan 10 05:07:30 and it's the peekaboo page? Jan 10 05:07:38 the peekaboo i see you page Jan 10 05:07:40 yes Jan 10 05:07:45 another thing Jan 10 05:07:59 when i click on the black screen it wakes the device up Jan 10 05:08:14 ok, well you're getting more than me Jan 10 05:08:37 you want to see a screen shot? Jan 10 05:08:43 I believe you Jan 10 05:08:48 I just don't understand it Jan 10 05:08:48 cool Jan 10 05:09:08 so my problem is the video codec Jan 10 05:09:26 yours is you don't think port forwading is needed in order to connect Jan 10 05:09:36 well let me see if I can get peekaboo to even open a port on my machine, then I'll see if I can figure it out Jan 10 05:10:06 well, I can see with netstat on the N800 itself that it's not opening a port Jan 10 05:15:44 I think it has other problems on mine Jan 10 05:15:58 I don't think it's ever managing to start vlc Jan 10 05:17:05 hmmmm Jan 10 05:19:24 why makes you say this? Jan 10 05:19:36 did you get an error message Jan 10 05:21:35 welcome back Jan 10 05:21:57 unique311, http://pastebin.com/m51aab79 Jan 10 05:22:14 that's after launching peekaboo and clicking play Jan 10 05:22:26 I'm trying to track down what package might have '/usr/lib/libosso-ic-preload.so' Jan 10 05:33:42 unique311, for some reason it won't open the video device on mine Jan 10 05:33:54 holdn on Jan 10 05:34:12 hmmm Jan 10 05:35:09 once I kept it from putting vlc output in /dev/null it told me this: vlc: v4l.c:1305: OpenVideoDev: Assertion `fmt.type == V4L2_BUF_TYPE_VIDEO_CAPTURE' failed. Jan 10 05:36:56 i got that error prior Jan 10 05:37:07 but i didn't think it matter Jan 10 05:39:45 ah Jan 10 05:40:55 but i got that error when i tried streaming with vlc Jan 10 05:41:02 using a command i found on ITT Jan 10 05:41:12 and it worked anyways? Jan 10 05:41:47 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=120140&postcount=43 Jan 10 05:42:09 but i think that post says it all. Jan 10 05:42:50 the problem is not peekaboo, Jan 10 05:43:37 I think I'll just use motion :) Jan 10 05:44:04 same here. Jan 10 05:44:12 at least it didn't break anything. Jan 10 05:44:31 dpkg --purge Jan 10 05:44:32 well, we'll see if it tries to delete the libs it overwrote when I installed it Jan 10 05:44:41 and then install ogg vorbis and mad Jan 10 05:45:07 so you overwritting actually worked for you. Jan 10 05:45:27 i had to remove the libs Jan 10 05:45:32 so it would install. Jan 10 05:45:36 well, maybe that caused problems for me Jan 10 05:45:46 either way, the whole thing is pretty hacked up Jan 10 05:46:18 you should clone your os to SD Jan 10 05:46:29 I keep thinking about it Jan 10 05:46:37 just in cases like this. Jan 10 05:46:38 I probably will once I have time to reflash Jan 10 05:46:53 eh...I'm comfortable hacking around in a debian system Jan 10 05:46:54 thanks for the help. Jan 10 05:47:02 sure, sorry it didn't amount to much Jan 10 05:47:14 i'll probably look into why vlc is acting like a step child 2morrow Jan 10 05:47:23 heh Jan 10 05:47:27 sounds like a plan Jan 10 05:51:11 does anyone know how to run qemu inside scratchbox ? Jan 10 05:51:50 I don't think there's an easy way Jan 10 05:51:57 what are you trying to do? Jan 10 05:51:59 i tryed with http://maemogeek.blogspot.com/2007/11/installing-qemu-arm-eabi-patch-into.html Jan 10 05:52:32 but i am not getting how to run it ? Jan 10 05:53:04 are you trying to run something you compiled? Jan 10 05:53:16 yes Jan 10 05:53:26 scratchbox is supposed to handle that stuff automatically if I understand correctly Jan 10 05:53:36 i first change the target to ARMEL Jan 10 05:54:18 and them compiled basic hello hildon prog Jan 10 05:55:09 i type the command qemu-arm-eabi-sb2 basic (basic is my ARMEL binary) Jan 10 05:55:34 I think you can just run "basic" without the qemu part Jan 10 05:55:40 or that's how it's supposed to work Jan 10 05:56:05 http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/09/android-hacked-to-run-on-real-hardware/ Jan 10 05:56:25 android running on the zuarus Jan 10 05:57:18 yeah, I just built a kernel to test it on mine :) Jan 10 05:57:24 no bash: basic: command not found Jan 10 05:57:39 hmm Jan 10 05:59:11 i am getting error basic[8410]: GLIB WARNING ** Gtk - cannot open display: if i run qemu-arm-eabi-sb2 basic Jan 10 05:59:42 do u know witch displau we need to export i tryed 0,1,2 Jan 10 06:00:25 there's a howto for running graphical programs Jan 10 06:00:32 let me dig it up Jan 10 06:02:22 Minti, in the install check out section 4: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.0/INSTALL.txt Jan 10 06:04:02 what usb wlan chip is easiest to plug in n800? Jan 10 06:04:20 johnx: Xephyr is running only for X86 Jan 10 06:04:47 not for ARMEL if i understand correctly Jan 10 06:04:49 Minti, you run xephyr on your host machine (x86) then let ARM programs connect to it Jan 10 06:05:30 i am not getting how ARM binary will run on X86? Jan 10 06:06:24 Minti, do you understand how X11 works to some extent? Jan 10 06:06:42 johnx : no Jan 10 06:06:54 ok, interested in a brief rundown of it? Jan 10 06:07:13 johnx : yes Jan 10 06:07:58 X11 is network transparent. When you say DISPLAY=:0 that's the short version of DISPLAY=thiscomputer:first-display Jan 10 06:08:27 if I wanted my program to run on my computer, and display on another computer X11 can do that Jan 10 06:09:28 a program connects to the x server just like any other network connection, then sends what it wants the x server to display across the connection Jan 10 06:09:44 good Jan 10 06:09:49 think of it as a way better version of vnc or remote desktop :) Jan 10 06:10:14 s/better/older/g Jan 10 06:10:36 keesj, those who don't learn from Unix are doomed to reimplement it ... poorly Jan 10 06:11:13 johnx : Jan 10 06:11:23 qemu will give Jan 10 06:11:34 the env Jan 10 06:11:54 to run ur ARMEL binary on X86 Jan 10 06:12:19 it will use X11 server only Jan 10 06:13:33 right, qemu runs the ARMEL binary, the armel binary connects locally (via a socket) to the X server running on your x86 host machine Jan 10 06:15:13 johnx: if i understand correctly then for it we hv to export display of X11 Jan 10 06:15:55 right, just follow the instructions I linked above Jan 10 06:16:06 it tells you what to do Jan 10 06:16:09 it worked for me Jan 10 06:16:40 did u try the same ? Jan 10 06:17:16 uhm, I think I had all this working in scratchbox... Jan 10 06:18:08 i tryed with exporting display2.. Jan 10 06:18:17 but :( Jan 10 06:18:24 what did it say? Jan 10 06:19:25 johnx: Unsupported setsockopt level=1 optname=9 basic[9142]: GLIB WARNING ** Gtk - cannot open display: Jan 10 06:21:18 hmm Jan 10 06:22:22 johnx: still i start maemo ( af-sb-init.sh start) Jan 10 06:22:54 I'm trying to test this for myself but right now my scratchbox seems broken :/ Jan 10 06:23:56 johnx: i am facing one more prob with scratchbox Jan 10 06:24:26 apt-get is not working inside scratchbox .. Jan 10 06:24:49 what does it say? Jan 10 06:27:19 johnx: i hv to restart my system bcz if i change the target it is not allowing me to change it says := sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first Jan 10 06:28:10 have you closed any terminal window where you're logged into scratchbox? Jan 10 06:28:20 johnx: yes Jan 10 06:28:40 johnx: and for apt-get : Err http://repository.maemo.org bora/free Packages Jan 10 06:28:40 Could not resolve 'repository.maemo.org' Jan 10 06:29:16 ah, you're still using scratchbox for bora...ok I think I know how to fix that error at least Jan 10 06:29:21 let me dig up the link Jan 10 06:30:09 which version of of bora is this for 3, 3.1 or 3.2? Jan 10 06:30:20 3.2 Jan 10 06:32:46 Minti, over here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Installing_Maemo_SDK_on_Scratchbox Jan 10 06:33:08 basically the solution is to replace the contents of /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf with hosts: files dns Jan 10 06:33:28 given the /. story from linuxdevices... is any trying to get android on the n8x0? Jan 10 06:33:43 yes i did the same Jan 10 06:34:36 Luria, What I'd like to do first is get a clean copy of a system that's a little more like Debian on it Jan 10 06:35:12 Luria, I think it would be kind of a pain to get the Maemo stuff to not stomp all over the android stuff and vice versa Jan 10 06:36:22 johnx: yes i did the same Jan 10 06:36:42 wow, my device has been processing my inbox for like 10 minutes now Jan 10 06:36:42 Minti, well, that was my only real idea for that problem :/ Jan 10 06:37:13 :( Jan 10 06:38:06 can you ping google.com from inside scratchbox ? Jan 10 06:38:27 yes only .com Jan 10 06:38:33 not .org Jan 10 06:39:23 what's Xomap? Jan 10 06:39:32 infobot Xomap Jan 10 06:39:41 X server for omap Jan 10 06:39:42 what bot is the infobot here? Jan 10 06:40:29 I have no idea... Jan 10 06:40:42 I need a way to debug the bluetooth serial connection, it's not working against my motorola slvr... or is this an issue I should be reporting to nokia support? Jan 10 06:41:31 blootbot apparently (http://blootbot.sourceforge.net/) Jan 10 06:41:53 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYVT1-xz5LM&eurl this is hillarious. Jan 10 06:42:01 hachi, you could ask them I guess Jan 10 06:42:07 i have to share it Jan 10 06:42:11 hachi, are you ok with using the command line? Jan 10 06:42:22 unique311: not on my machine:( I will have to look at it from work Jan 10 06:42:33 johnx: i will get back to u .. i hv to restart my system Jan 10 06:42:55 johnx: I'm okay with using the assembler if I have to Jan 10 06:43:10 I don't know this platform at all, and I don't know where to start for docs Jan 10 06:43:29 :) Jan 10 06:43:50 yeah, on a normal linux system, everything is nicely documented in /usr/share/doc ... but they cut all the docs out of the N8x0 to save space Jan 10 06:44:06 same reason we have busybox, and no manpages Jan 10 06:44:21 if you want a really low level debug view of what's going on over the bluetooth link there is hcidump Jan 10 06:44:40 it can be a little tough to interpret though Jan 10 06:45:01 I'm actually a little puzzled searching for anything syslog-like Jan 10 06:45:18 do I have any sort of kernel messages at my reach? Jan 10 06:45:26 dmesg Jan 10 06:45:56 it will get you at least the last several k bytes... Jan 10 06:48:07 wow, it's... uh... logging everything Jan 10 06:48:14 'slide is now open' Jan 10 06:51:32 ahaha...N800 says "I can see you in the webcam Dave" Jan 10 06:53:05 enprocess is part of the mail client, yes? Jan 10 06:54:01 yes Jan 10 06:54:06 dpkg -S enprocess Jan 10 06:54:19 that will tell you what package owns a file Jan 10 06:55:41 perl is on here? how silly :) Jan 10 06:55:49 dpkg needs perl Jan 10 06:55:52 when you say you don't know this platform, do you mean the N8x0 or Linux or Debian? Jan 10 06:56:32 not to hot on dpkg general operation... I build packages a lot and somehow missed the basics Jan 10 06:56:40 otherwise I'm very at home in debian land Jan 10 06:57:03 ah, ok Jan 10 06:59:37 shouldn't busybox have a syslogd ? Jan 10 07:00:17 it can have a syslogd Jan 10 07:00:33 Nokia didn't compile it with one Jan 10 07:01:07 it's not an entirely friendly Debian system ... Jan 10 07:02:39 I don't see hcidump Jan 10 07:03:25 I think it's in one of the default repositories ... Jan 10 07:03:34 apt-cache search hcidump Jan 10 07:03:49 already did that Jan 10 07:03:51 no matches Jan 10 07:04:51 ahh, got a pointer to a syslogd written in perl already, hoorj Jan 10 07:05:36 http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ is a great resource Jan 10 07:06:07 you can search for packages in pretty much all of the available repositories Jan 10 07:09:28 Would someone tell me how I can get the latest 2007HE firmware? Jan 10 07:09:48 For the 770 of course... :) Jan 10 07:10:01 google Jan 10 07:11:53 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/os2007_hacker_edition.php Jan 10 07:11:55 Alright, I'll be nice Jan 10 07:11:59 wasn't on the first page. Jan 10 07:13:00 Guys, real quick question Jan 10 07:13:12 Has anyone used the A-DATA 4GB SDHC card with your N800? Jan 10 07:13:21 Thanks, I was looking via google and going back to the Nokia pages... Jan 10 07:14:33 Syntra, 8GB here. Jan 10 07:14:36 It'll work fine, though. Jan 10 07:14:41 Alright, cool Jan 10 07:14:47 I'm juuust about to order one Jan 10 07:14:52 Two of my friends have 4GB cards Jan 10 07:14:55 Theirs work fine. Jan 10 07:14:59 Newegg? Jan 10 07:15:04 Newegg has it for 20$ with free shipping and a 6$ MIR rebate! Jan 10 07:15:06 Yeah Jan 10 07:15:15 Thats 14 freaking bucks! :D Jan 10 07:15:18 Hehe Jan 10 07:15:30 is there a keychain I can install to make the install warnings turn off? Jan 10 07:15:52 keyring, wrong word Jan 10 07:16:00 No Jan 10 07:16:07 okie Jan 10 07:16:08 Go vote on the bug. Jan 10 07:16:30 The 16GB A-DATA is down under $80 Jan 10 07:17:44 I wonder if this rate of price cuts on flash will be able to continue in the long term Jan 10 07:17:44 Wow, 85Meg... I wasn't expecting that one.. :) So can I still use the standard Nokia flasher that I downloaded off of the Nokia site? Jan 10 07:18:05 Yeah Jan 10 07:18:17 I would have gotten the 16GB if I wasn't using a Visa Giftcard Jan 10 07:18:21 johnx, you wont see more cuts for at least 6 months. Jan 10 07:18:39 But SD is fast becoming the primary memory card standard Jan 10 07:18:44 economies of scale and whatnot. Jan 10 07:19:28 The flash price drops are freaking awesome, though Jan 10 07:19:36 I remember seeing 4GB's at 50$ a while back Jan 10 07:19:38 yeah, at least you can get compactflash sdhc adapters Jan 10 07:19:54 Not to mention 16GB's... Jan 10 07:19:54 compactflash is the the standard that still impresses me the most Jan 10 07:20:34 CF is nice for bigger hardware (mini pc's/routerbla, DLSR cams/...) Jan 10 07:21:05 CF is huge Jan 10 07:21:17 OK for cameras and bigger stuff Jan 10 07:21:21 but stupid for small stuff. Jan 10 07:22:12 what impresses me about it though is that it's still in use at all and that it still is neck-and-neck with sd for the highest capacity Jan 10 07:22:30 Am I going blind? Where is the flash app for Windows from Nokia... All I see is I need SP2, but I don't see anything to download the app... Jan 10 07:22:58 nokia.com Jan 10 07:23:02 check the N800 support page Jan 10 07:23:07 is the display on the n810 backlit by led or cold cathode fluorescent? Jan 10 07:23:11 Either than, or use flasher on a real computer. :P Jan 10 07:23:27 The later, I believe, hachi. Jan 10 07:23:28 anyone use the i-blue 737 gps unit? Jan 10 07:23:34 Yes, love it, truent. Jan 10 07:23:49 GeneralAntilles, its ok on os2008/ new maemomapper Jan 10 07:23:50 ? Jan 10 07:23:52 I'm charging for the next answer. . . . ;) Jan 10 07:23:58 Yes, it runs perfectly. Jan 10 07:24:01 Here's my daily reminder to please post your read/write speed tests of mini/micro SD flash cards in the N810 (if you got one) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11695 Jan 10 07:24:06 ok gonna order one right now Jan 10 07:24:09 just makin sure ;p Jan 10 07:24:43 anyone tested if the 16g sd cards work with the n800? Jan 10 07:24:55 Yes, the work just fine, steri. Jan 10 07:25:01 goodie :) Jan 10 07:25:02 Cards up to 2048GB will work fine. Jan 10 07:25:19 getting 2x16g cards on monday Jan 10 07:25:20 But GeneralAntilles... Don't you remember me, I was Red 9... :) Jan 10 07:25:33 mmmm... 2TB of storage.... tasty Jan 10 07:26:06 Hehe, Feral_Kid, I've been using this nick since 1996. :P Jan 10 07:27:47 GeneralAntilles: Yeah, but I couldn't resist... And I have been doing IRC since I first used it on a VAX in 89... Funny how one can never seem to shake a nick... :) Jan 10 07:28:12 Once you get an online identity together, it's tough to change. Jan 10 07:28:37 So true, so true... Jan 10 07:28:46 heheh I've been using variations of this one since '81 on the Dow Jones Info Network, an Atari 800 & a 300 baud accoustically coupled modem :) Jan 10 07:29:09 The best I can claim is CompServ on a Performa 400 in the early 90s Jan 10 07:29:21 I would've been about 6 at the time. ;) Jan 10 07:29:34 lol, well, I'm an old fart Jan 10 07:29:46 so, I stood in an outside in an open area for like 10 minutes earlier trying to get a gps lock Jan 10 07:29:59 should I be having this much trouble getting the gps running at all? Jan 10 07:30:04 The first one is, evidently, the hardest, hachi. Jan 10 07:30:17 I don't know what sort of shit chip Nokia stuck in there, though. :\ Jan 10 07:30:27 Yet another reason why the N800 is better than the N810 Jan 10 07:30:41 there's a thread on itt where people compare who long it took Jan 10 07:30:51 I think someone ended up taking more than an hour Jan 10 07:30:54 qnr-lt: Ah, there is no on-line experience until you do it with a Sinclaire ZX-81... :) Jan 10 07:31:27 Which at the time was being sold through Timex... Jan 10 07:32:14 I just remember from high school, having this great plan to get the serial port on a TI calculator talking to an acoustically coupled modem attached to a payphone Jan 10 07:32:31 Feral_Kid, wow, that would be true typing torture on that keyboard Jan 10 07:33:37 It was, but I was oh-so-happy to make sprite graphic and it was before the C-64... Jan 10 07:33:54 though they do have their uses, my original Atari 400, from 1979 is still in daily use by a friend of mine, in a photo lab over in Italy... he loves that chemical proof monopanel keyboard Jan 10 07:34:50 well, TBH, that info is about 2 years old... but it was still running strong in 2005 Jan 10 07:35:08 I didn't do the 400, but I did have an 800 and I do remember the Coleco Adam.... :) Jan 10 07:36:08 Ah to be a near geezer and still be tech savvy.... Jan 10 07:37:40 well, I got a good deal through the military exchange catalog... I ended up buying both the 400 & the 800 at almost the same time... 3 or 4 weeks, if I remember correctly. I must have been a heck of a lot richer than I am now... Jan 10 07:37:41 should we be using higher priority when doing read/write speed testings? Jan 10 07:38:03 * qnr-lt stops with the OT chatter :) Jan 10 07:38:13 sync; time sh -c "dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/testfile bs=1M count=100;sync" Jan 10 07:38:15 Haha, pupnik, just buy what's cheap. :P Jan 10 07:38:19 something like nice -19 ? Jan 10 07:38:22 okay Jan 10 07:38:44 tbh it doesn't look like a huge difference so far Jan 10 07:41:29 the sandisk 8gb microSDHC looks pretty slow Jan 10 07:43:31 Sandisk 8GB microSDHC 10 runs avg 2.50 MB/s vs Kingston 4GB miniSDHC Flash 4GB Class 6 at 5.26 MB/s Jan 10 07:44:06 so looks like there are serious differences eh Jan 10 07:50:35 Is the anyway to get a replacement case of the 770 without having to hope that Nokia will actually return the device? The bottom of my 770 is cracked! All I need is a stinking plastic case... Jan 10 07:53:07 heh. All I want is a stylus for my N800 Jan 10 07:55:43 Anybody know if the os2008 backup also backs up gpe data? Jan 10 07:58:24 Cptn-N800, It probably doesn't Jan 10 07:59:18 Two questions about 2007HE... Where are a list of repositories and do I use the same information to use my MMC for the root device? Jan 10 07:59:41 Is there anythibg that will? Jan 10 07:59:52 Although it looks much nicer... Jan 10 08:00:49 Feral_Kid, http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ has a list of repositories for 2006, 2007 and 2008 Jan 10 08:01:25 johnx: Thanks Jan 10 08:01:58 sure. Somehow it seems to be the best kept secret around here Jan 10 08:10:37 johnx: So can I use the old information from maemo.org to be able to boot from mmc. or has anything changed in the 2007HE update? Jan 10 08:11:05 bloooooo dyyy hell, time to figure out how to purge email configs on this device Jan 10 08:14:56 Feral_Kid, I have no idea. I have an N800 booting off internal flash Jan 10 08:15:32 hachi, The builtin mail app sucks. Grab the beta of Modest Jan 10 08:15:40 eager to multiboot N810 Jan 10 08:16:15 johnx: thanks, it's been using the whole cpu for a few hours now on me :\ Jan 10 08:16:19 johnx: Well considering that it is going to be a minute before I can step up to my N810, I need to work on the functionality of my 770... Jan 10 08:43:43 "We have decided to extend validity period of N810 maemo device program, new expiration date is 30.06.2008." Jan 10 08:44:08 ? Jan 10 08:55:06 Morning, all Jan 10 08:55:57 hellos Jan 10 09:00:45 can anyone recommend an alternative RSS reader? Jan 10 09:01:21 google reader perhaps Jan 10 09:02:13 There's a UME guide to porting Liferea (IIRC) to Hildon. Should be easy Jan 10 09:02:39 my n810 has landed!!!!! /me is so happy' Jan 10 09:02:52 anyone else had this problem? the internal flash vfat partition is "too" big Jan 10 09:03:09 as in it's 4gb instead of 2gb/ Jan 10 09:03:24 wow xterm is even delivered as default app! Jan 10 09:03:33 onion, yeah, other people have had that problem Jan 10 09:03:47 no, the partition is 62720 cylinders big but the device has only 61440 Jan 10 09:04:08 yup, there's a thread on itt about it Jan 10 09:04:19 suffice to say, I think you can just repartition it Jan 10 09:04:27 so it's backup/fdisk/mkfs/restore.. Jan 10 09:04:30 you can, but we'd like to know about it Jan 10 09:05:17 timeless: what do you mean? Jan 10 09:05:27 it was a problem w/ protos, i had thought it wouldn't have been a problem for the shipping hardware Jan 10 09:05:41 hi Jan 10 09:05:54 how does one get the bluetooth name of the device? Jan 10 09:06:00 oops, wrong window Jan 10 09:06:02 they asked the people who got protos to bring their devices to someone to investigate... Jan 10 09:06:07 in chinook I mean Jan 10 09:06:17 in bora it used to be in gconf, seems no more :( Jan 10 09:07:10 timeless: I got mine using the developer discount.. should be a production model right? Jan 10 09:07:18 certainly Jan 10 09:07:24 protos haven't been made for a while Jan 10 09:07:39 i'm kinda surprised that this problem made it into production :( Jan 10 09:08:19 timeless: I can imagine... "normal" Windows people must have fun with this Jan 10 09:08:38 timeless: so it's safe to just repartition ? Jan 10 09:08:44 what's a normal windows person, and what do they have to do w/ tablets? Jan 10 09:08:54 yeah, repartition Jan 10 09:09:10 unless you like waiting for your internal mmc to be mounted ro and then watch apps break Jan 10 09:09:17 if you like that, might i suggest Map? Jan 10 09:09:21 timeless: well, they will probably get funny errors when trying to use the internal flash mounted on their desktop Jan 10 09:09:30 if you thought Map was bad under normal conditions... Jan 10 09:10:06 i suppose i could try reformatting my device frrom windows Jan 10 09:10:15 it's just as broken as yours is, just older :) Jan 10 09:11:46 timeless: what I mean is, a normal non-geek user might not understand what the problem is.. and nokia can enjoy the support calls Jan 10 09:11:59 a non geek user who bought this device, why? Jan 10 09:12:04 timeless: :D Jan 10 09:12:11 that's what i mean... Jan 10 09:12:32 i'm pretty sure any windows user who bought this device will be relatively clueful Jan 10 09:12:43 but i'd love to meet the exceptions Jan 10 09:12:51 well, compared to the 770 (or OS2006/7) this is much more consumer oriented Jan 10 09:12:52 and thank them for supporting nokia Jan 10 09:13:03 xterm? Jan 10 09:13:37 hang out on itt more. You can meet all kinds of users of ... varying skill levels Jan 10 09:13:47 no thanks :) Jan 10 09:14:00 i have opted to take a permanent pass from that Jan 10 09:14:06 ahaha Jan 10 09:15:23 still, there really are people completely new to the concept of a command line buying these devices Jan 10 09:16:01 i'd really like to know why.. who convinced them, and what were they expecting/looking for. and of course, are they happy? Jan 10 09:16:16 I don't get it.. people used DOS just fine before winblows Jan 10 09:16:26 my general impression about itt is it's a collection of people who aren't happy Jan 10 09:17:06 errr...hmm Jan 10 09:17:09 onion: fewer people, and there's something about the average understanding/expectations dropping as systems evolve Jan 10 09:17:29 the unhappy are definitely the most vocal Jan 10 09:18:32 I think videos on youtube and 3rd hand accounts might have lead to some people having higher expectations for the N8x0 than were healthy Jan 10 09:19:39 ITT frequently makes me want to cut my eyes out. <_< Jan 10 09:20:02 timeless: Nokia market it as a high-end consumer ("prosumer"?) device. There's shouldn't be the excuse (not just heard from you) that it's aimed at Linux geeks only. Jan 10 09:20:24 yippie! my n810 arrived! *happy* Jan 10 09:20:31 there is a huge divide between skill levels on ITT and not much of a middle ground Jan 10 09:21:07 Jaffa: but any Linux device with a non-simplified user interface will most likely be a *little* strange to a Windows user. Jan 10 09:22:10 Jaffa: my opinion is that Linux is as simple as WIndows, it Jan 10 09:22:27 it's just different, and most people *have* Windows background. Jan 10 09:22:50 (I don't, so I actually find Windows difficult whenever I need to do anything but use the offered programs) Jan 10 09:23:09 Veggen: I find windows extremely difficult Jan 10 09:23:14 Veggen: oh, I accept the device isn't suitable for real end-users; for a variety of reasons (the big one probably being still the repository mess that makes installing applications hit & miss); but Nokia are selling it as a consumer device: so these problems needs to be solved or there'll be very negative reviews) Jan 10 09:23:17 hehe Jan 10 09:23:19 i don't use it since Win 98 times Jan 10 09:23:30 I'm not trying to bash MS here...but trying to learn how a computer works with Windows as an example is *unhealthy* Jan 10 09:23:33 windows is difficult - but most problems for it have a solution available Jan 10 09:23:44 There's certainly no need a Linux/Unix-like OS needs to be hard to use (see Mac OS X/the iPod Touch as different exteremes) Jan 10 09:23:46 bedboi: I sort of have to, for specific administrative things. But I'd be mad if I had to use it for my productive work ;) Jan 10 09:23:54 glass, until you run into a problem with svchost.exe Jan 10 09:24:33 johnx: or corrupted dll's that prevent you from installing any new hw Jan 10 09:24:43 bedboi: and I've vowed never to take responsibility for anything on windows. Whatsoever. Jan 10 09:24:49 * bedboi is so glad he doesn't know what svchost.exe is... i just heard it is the favorite target for viruses Jan 10 09:25:11 If someone asks me to help them with something *on* Windows, I'll insist having someone to help me with the windows-things of it. Jan 10 09:25:45 yep, configuring devices (i.e. network devices) is a pain in windows Jan 10 09:25:50 I do understand those who like it, though. It's all habits. Jan 10 09:26:17 Jaffa, The iPod touch is a great example in that the included software is completely simple but not quite enough and to put *anything* else on their requires actually cracking into the device Jan 10 09:26:24 btw this is a dangerous thing to discuss about, and i have to give a class in 1 h and still have to check what I have to say Jan 10 09:26:43 johnx: agreed, but an SDK has been promised. And even without it there are some usable apps. Jan 10 09:27:12 right, but you can't deny that adding those extra apps is far from simple or foolproof or reliable Jan 10 09:27:42 * Jaffa 's argument is that the mentality "users need to learn, users are just used to Windows, and/or users who don't know Linux command lines shouldn't buy it" are long-term dangerous; and paper over serious usability flaws (such as installing software) Jan 10 09:27:52 btw, i find n770, n800, n810 very usable devices. Jan 10 09:28:06 my brother (who is a lawyer) even didn't find out it was linux Jan 10 09:28:09 johnx: agreed entirely. Jan 10 09:28:24 when i said so he went "OH MY GOD? WHERE IS WINDOWS?" Jan 10 09:28:34 lawyers Jan 10 09:32:55 Jaffa, agreed WRT to the "if you don't like the CLI then go away" Jan 10 09:33:23 for the record, i'm not advocating cli. i'm merely saying that adding cli is imo a path away from end users Jan 10 09:33:41 even though nt and osx have always had cli Jan 10 09:33:52 most phones do not have cli Jan 10 09:34:03 and i'm away that the current offerings are not phones Jan 10 09:34:12 there is something to be said for the fact that Windows users suffer when switching to *Mac* as well Jan 10 09:34:15 whatever a prosumer may be, they've probably purchased phones before Jan 10 09:34:50 nothing on the tablets forces to use a cli so I don't see a problem there Jan 10 09:35:16 a lot of the additional software does Jan 10 09:35:47 when people realize how much of the functionality they were going to get "for free" actually requires effort and learning on their part they get angry Jan 10 09:36:01 johnx: well if they are cli apps.. but nothing forces a user to use them Jan 10 09:36:25 Right, I didn't say it was *rational* Jan 10 09:36:26 It's the third party stuff which is the problem. Using the device with the built-in software is fine & dandy. But having so many repositories with inter-dependencies makes installing software overly hard. Jan 10 09:36:50 All software should be in, say, extras with no dependencies on any repository which is not installed by default (or in extras as well) Jan 10 09:37:05 That'd solve almost all of the problems with third party software installation. Jan 10 09:37:19 Jaffa, maybe extras and extras-beta or something like that, but agreed in principle Jan 10 09:37:30 well, most of the, Jan 10 09:37:45 some works in progress that *just aren't packaged yet* still get people into trouble Jan 10 09:38:05 also, for a lot of people this is there first time making packages so there can be some rough edges anyways Jan 10 09:40:46 johnx: agreed; auto-builders and more of a community around extras (i.e. a set of community maintainers as gatekeepers) could help. Jan 10 09:41:56 there really needs to be a way for clueful users to actually lend a hand Jan 10 09:42:40 ^ definitely Jan 10 09:42:54 The community is so much faster responding to issues than Nokia. Jan 10 09:43:11 and for gods sake, someone needs to be able to *sticky* threads on itt Jan 10 09:43:20 Only one admin on ITT. <_< Jan 10 09:43:34 Need some distribution of power in a lot of areas. Jan 10 09:43:44 so much yes Jan 10 09:44:43 also, there's a newbie section of the board...I sometimes think there should be a "Unix geeks" section of the board Jan 10 09:47:04 The wiki needs more work. Jan 10 09:47:47 yeah Jan 10 09:48:12 yeah Jan 10 09:48:21 * johnx never feels like writing documentation Jan 10 09:49:40 I spend too much of my time doing triage on the forums to bother with it. Jan 10 09:50:00 that's the problem right there Jan 10 09:50:13 too few helpers? Jan 10 09:50:47 has anyone looked at forum.nokia.com for n810? Jan 10 09:50:54 iirc it's supposed to exist Jan 10 09:51:01 you guys have a forum?! Jan 10 09:51:15 i wouldn't go that far Jan 10 09:51:27 for one, it isn't us Jan 10 09:51:30 it's some other group :) Jan 10 09:51:44 http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/platforms/maemo/index.html Jan 10 09:51:53 http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N810 Jan 10 09:52:00 * timeless has absolutely no idea what content is in there Jan 10 09:52:20 (or how much of it is wrong) Jan 10 09:52:30 it's mostly about dev stuff I think Jan 10 09:52:44 when you said forum I thought you meant "discussion board" Jan 10 09:53:00 * timeless has no idea what forum.nokia.com is or does :) Jan 10 09:53:04 johnx: there's forum too Jan 10 09:53:10 and blogs etc Jan 10 09:53:16 http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/index.php Jan 10 09:53:21 doesn't seem to have much n8x0 content ... Jan 10 09:53:38 but the whole thing is (has been) mainly meant for the symbian stuff. But they seem to want more maemo stuff there too Jan 10 09:54:05 maybe they should make a maemo section on the discussion forum area? Jan 10 09:54:12 johnx: too logical? Jan 10 09:54:27 they might take feedback, but i wouldn't know where, give them some :) Jan 10 09:55:46 strange, http://community.forum.nokia.com/ has a maemo section Jan 10 09:55:49 heh...that's actually another thing about itt. A lot of users feel compelled to post their...ahem, feedback about the N8x0 stuff to it, thinking that someone at Nokia who has the power to do anything about it will actually read it Jan 10 09:55:53 i don't understand why discussions doesn't Jan 10 09:58:24 can we forward angry comments from users somewhere? or tell them to send someone@nokia an email? Jan 10 09:58:38 johnx: maemo-developers also gets the same sort of "feedback" Jan 10 09:58:43 Hi Jan 10 09:58:51 johnx: i always suggest "nokia care" Jan 10 09:59:01 they are officially responsible for collecting and reporting about "feedback" Jan 10 09:59:14 they should have both local phone numbers and some web feedback Jan 10 09:59:21 excellent Jan 10 09:59:28 I'll write up a template post I can use Jan 10 10:00:05 iirc http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/8 has a note about nokia care Jan 10 10:01:28 but yeah, while you're sending feedback around, please ask the forum people why they don't have a discussion section Jan 10 10:03:08 do people who actually work for Nokia hang out on discussion.forum.nokia.com ? Jan 10 10:03:20 in theory Jan 10 10:03:28 good enough Jan 10 10:03:36 again, it's new from a maemo perspective, so we wouldn't really have occasion to know Jan 10 10:03:53 probably best to scan through the s60 sections and see if that holds true Jan 10 10:04:09 i believe that there probably should be some forum nokia employees in those things helping out Jan 10 10:04:22 if not people specifically from {whichever group} Jan 10 10:04:39 note that i wouldn't want to suggest forum nokia to the itt crowd Jan 10 10:05:03 basically, for now, it's something that a couple of people here should look at, and see if it's comfortable/maleable/useful Jan 10 10:05:12 if so, slowly stretch/spread it Jan 10 10:05:23 don't want the unwashed masses trampling down the gates? :P Jan 10 10:05:28 precisely Jan 10 10:05:38 so we get to keep 'em? heh Jan 10 10:05:39 oh hell, gmail is down Jan 10 10:05:45 eh? gmail wfm Jan 10 10:05:49 fugitivo, seriously? Jan 10 10:05:56 it really wfm Jan 10 10:06:07 i can't access my gmail account and my 2 google apps accounts Jan 10 10:06:29 it's fine for me Jan 10 10:06:34 web browser or otherwsie? Jan 10 10:06:42 other sites are working Jan 10 10:06:49 maybe it's my isp Jan 10 10:07:04 does docs.google.com work? Jan 10 10:07:11 yes Jan 10 10:07:15 (calendar and reader are hosted by .google.com) Jan 10 10:07:41 can I get my keyboard on the 810 to require chording to do 'shift' and 'fn' operations? Jan 10 10:07:49 fugitivo, it works here Jan 10 10:07:56 and my google apps docs works Jan 10 10:07:58 but not mail Jan 10 10:08:25 calendar is working Jan 10 10:08:31 something wrong with mail Jan 10 10:21:12 hachi: what do you mean? Jan 10 10:22:17 I restarted firefox and now it works, weird Jan 10 10:22:55 Dear maemo contributor, We have decided to extend validity period of N810 maemo device program, new expiration date is 30.06.2008. Jan 10 10:22:58 :) Jan 10 10:23:31 that means that USA won't have stock for several months :) Jan 10 10:23:33 Jaffa, I assume he means he wants it to make him hold shift+a to get A Jan 10 10:29:00 Jaffa: yeah, johnx is correct Jan 10 10:29:20 re Jan 10 10:29:34 actually, what I want is to get rid of that giant white bar on the bottom edge of my screen to tell me my shifty state Jan 10 10:33:41 finally, I got my N810 Jan 10 10:34:23 have fun Jan 10 10:34:34 oh, I will Jan 10 10:34:51 I like it :) Jan 10 10:35:01 thanks for the discount, Nokia, otherwise I would have had to let this pass since I have the N800 Jan 10 10:35:16 solid green... Jan 10 10:35:23 does that mean it's done charging? Jan 10 10:42:13 hachi: you can use Shift-a to get 'A' chorded already. If you turn off all the word prediction options in Control Panel > Input method you don't get the bar telling you your shift status (but you do still have a shift status) Jan 10 10:42:20 commanded in express delivery since friday i still not have it ... Jan 10 10:43:01 Jaffa: okay, but I wouldn't want a shift status if it's not visible to me :\ Jan 10 10:43:17 sticky keys get in the way if you don't know they're stuck Jan 10 10:43:49 de toute facon, mon episode preferré, c est dans la serie 4. Jan 10 10:43:51 oups Jan 10 10:45:57 loupé melmoth :) Jan 10 10:54:07 someone have problem with the maemo vmware image ? i can't have network connection ... Jan 10 10:56:56 Khertan: did you setup your default gateway? Jan 10 10:59:22 fugitivo : in vmware ? Jan 10 11:01:12 sorry, I thought you were saying that you can't have internet connection inside maemo Jan 10 11:01:31 I don't use the vmware image, you don't have network connection at all? Jan 10 11:02:09 in fact i use a vmware image on a vmware serv wich is on my localhost ... Jan 10 11:02:33 i can reach network with other image ... but don't know why this doesn't work with this one ... Jan 10 11:03:22 hachi: not possible AFAIK, raise an enhancement request in bugs.maemo.org? Jan 10 11:05:12 hum .... i ve found why ... Jan 10 11:05:17 thx fugitivo Jan 10 11:06:17 it was an problem on network bind between the rt61 new kernel module .... installed yesterday by auto update and the vmware network kmodule Jan 10 11:08:11 W: Couldn't stat source package list file: chinook/explicit Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/_home_maemo_maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries%5f4.0_dists_chinook_explicit_binary-armel_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory) Jan 10 11:08:21 hum ... Jan 10 11:10:25 back :P Jan 10 11:11:07 so... any new people online that might have an idea what Gtk magic was used to shove a HildonControlbar widget into a GtkMenu ? Jan 10 11:11:13 rm_you: so how long hav eyou done ckernel hacking? Jan 10 11:11:36 timeless: lol, i'm less of a kernel hacker and more of a general hacker Jan 10 11:11:49 I do some very minor kernel related work when it happens by Jan 10 11:11:59 but mostly i just do patches to random stuff :) Jan 10 11:12:32 rm_you, http://mxr.maemo.org/os2008/ident?i=HildonControlbar says # Jan 10 11:12:32 * Jan 10 11:12:33 # libhildon-1.99.0/examples/hildon-controlbar-example.c Jan 10 11:12:39 libhildon-1.99.0/tests/check-hildon-controlbar.c Jan 10 11:12:40 I first started working on open source stuff like 4 years ago :) Jan 10 11:12:52 hrm Jan 10 11:13:55 what's the real url? Jan 10 11:14:11 i'm don't do my browsing on the tablet, so no DNS fix for me here :( Jan 10 11:14:13 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/os2008/ident?i=HildonControlbar should work Jan 10 11:14:22 rm_you: the deb should work on any debian system Jan 10 11:14:35 i'm on windoze O_o Jan 10 11:14:39 for work Jan 10 11:14:45 and you can of course read http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/mxr-maemo-org-dns-0.1/DEBIAN/postinst to see what it does Jan 10 11:14:48 i'm using windows too Jan 10 11:15:01 yeah i figured what it did :) Jan 10 11:15:24 C:\home\Desktop>grep "mxr.maemo.org" c:\WINNT\system32\drivers\etc\hosts Jan 10 11:15:24 66.33.212.254 mxr.maemo.org Jan 10 11:15:43 * timeless sighs Jan 10 11:16:00 * timeless would normally use "find" but msys replaced windows find w/ gnu find Jan 10 11:16:26 yerp Jan 10 11:16:30 c:\winnt\system32\find "mxr.maemo.org" c:\WINNT\system32\drivers\etc\hosts Jan 10 11:16:30 ---------- C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\ETC\HOSTS Jan 10 11:16:31 66.33.212.254 mxr.maemo.org Jan 10 11:16:53 obviously it might not be 'winnt', and as it happens it need not be c: Jan 10 11:17:14 yeah Jan 10 11:17:24 i got it Jan 10 11:17:24 * timeless had a box for a while that had no c: at all :) Jan 10 11:17:29 lol same Jan 10 11:17:46 it was fun dealing w/ stupid apps taht demanded one Jan 10 11:17:58 the app i work on for my job is one of those Jan 10 11:18:03 it's my job to make it not be Jan 10 11:18:13 well, this week anyway Jan 10 11:18:24 morning all Jan 10 11:18:29 net share temp=%temp% && net use * \\hostname\temp Jan 10 11:18:54 the cool part of course is that * would be c: :) Jan 10 11:18:57 which is just so wierd... Jan 10 11:19:51 hrm... unfortunately, that example isn't doing what i need to do >_> Jan 10 11:20:01 rm_you: did you get the toolchain setup ok? Jan 10 11:20:13 lardman: oh, yeah i think so... Jan 10 11:20:25 sounds ominous :) Jan 10 11:20:25 rm_you: you can try searching the garage tree instead of os2008 Jan 10 11:20:26 it was a bit confusing, as there were parts i think i needed to do inside SB and some not? Jan 10 11:20:31 it was odd a bit Jan 10 11:20:34 there are a couple of trees floating around Jan 10 11:21:13 rm_you: anything that needs to run on the ARM side needs to be done in scratchbox, but for the toolchain I don't think there's anything you need to compile in there Jan 10 11:21:26 lardman: odd. well, i never did get it set up Jan 10 11:21:40 err, i may have, but i never TESTED that it actually worked right Jan 10 11:21:46 i started reading up on a2dp Jan 10 11:22:09 and realized that at the moment, unless i spent like a month doing research, i'd be in WAAAAAY over my head Jan 10 11:22:28 :) Jan 10 11:22:35 join the club, best way to get started! Jan 10 11:22:38 heh Jan 10 11:23:04 i'll probably start working my way through the spec and try to do some simple encode/decode tests, not in DSP, just to figure out what is going on Jan 10 11:23:13 dspgw-3.3.1-arm\host_src\mod_utils might be compiled in scratchbox, but I compiled it for x86 as I do the dsp devel outside of scratchbox Jan 10 11:23:23 and then in like a month or two, if no one else has started on it, I may start then >_> Jan 10 11:24:03 rm_you: poke me when you do, I'd be interested in doing an a2dp task Jan 10 11:24:12 :) Jan 10 11:24:47 I should get my Tremor dsp task source up on Garage tonight so you never know, people might take an interest and help me debug it :) Jan 10 11:24:50 My n810 could use a2dp... Jan 10 11:25:03 lardman: well, at the moment, i'm being stumped by GTK >_> Jan 10 11:25:17 ki6amd: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13468 Jan 10 11:25:35 lardman: i would love to see that Jan 10 11:25:35 rm_you: yeah I leave GUIs alone :) Jan 10 11:25:41 Thanx Jan 10 11:26:17 i normally do too, but people were asking for a brightness slider app last night, and i thought it would be an easy intro project >_> Jan 10 11:26:37 i was fairly WRONG, apparently.... as what should be a TRIVIAL task is turning into a nightmare Jan 10 11:26:50 rather, what should have been a trivial PART of a trivial task Jan 10 11:27:11 that's life Jan 10 11:27:52 I have the entire app done... but it's a huge full-on window... I can't get this @*#$ing HildonControlbar to fit into a GtkMenu (which is what I assume is used in the shipped volume/brightness apps, cause I can't find anything else that looks similar) Jan 10 11:28:26 or rather, I did finally, but it's not usable because if you try to click on it, it "clicks" on it like a menu item, and kills the menu >_> Jan 10 11:28:56 nothing is ever simple. just repeat it to yourself over and over again Jan 10 11:29:00 heh Jan 10 11:29:03 rm_you: the n810 does have native a2dp, but it's well... Lacking. It has a lot to do with my wierd jabra 8010's Jan 10 11:29:15 especially when you need to learn an entire toolkit to get going Jan 10 11:29:37 ki6amd: native as in part of the original image? Jan 10 11:29:49 ki6amd: if you paired your bluetooth headphones and you think you are getting a2dp sound... you aren't :( that's mono HSP or HFP Jan 10 11:30:13 lardman, oh it's native Jan 10 11:30:23 you just turn it on and then use mplayer ... Jan 10 11:30:27 ki6amd: a2dp isn't enabled by default in any ITOS, AFAIK Jan 10 11:30:29 ... and have horrible buffering problems Jan 10 11:30:42 johnx: but you have to install a2dpd, etc. Jan 10 11:30:50 not in 2008OS Jan 10 11:30:52 have to install bluez and mplayer >_> Jan 10 11:30:53 I should know Jan 10 11:31:02 rm_you, bluez? Jan 10 11:31:06 ah, fair enough, I've not tried with os2008 Jan 10 11:31:07 didn't we? Jan 10 11:31:14 rm_you, that would be no Jan 10 11:31:31 it's just one # out of a config file then make a valid .asoundrc Jan 10 11:32:08 os2008 is default on the n810.... As is a2dp Jan 10 11:32:24 ki6amd, right. but it's not *enabled* by default Jan 10 11:32:33 and the builtin media player can't use it at all Jan 10 11:32:45 ki6amd: yeah, unless you've actually done a bit of work to make a2dp be on, it isn't Jan 10 11:33:39 Is editing a config file considered "work" Jan 10 11:33:40 where does the a2dp conversion code live these days then? Jan 10 11:34:19 and creating a .asounrc file, and installing a new media player, and passing it a bunch of options :P Jan 10 11:34:29 lets just say it didn't just do it on it's own Jan 10 11:35:06 bluetooth-alsa I assume Jan 10 11:35:11 lardman, in bluez itself Jan 10 11:35:19 or what site? Jan 10 11:35:22 but i take it by this point that you actually do know what you're talking about, so could you go ahead and clarify what problem you are having? Jan 10 11:35:26 hang on, let me get a link Jan 10 11:35:29 Apt-get install mplayer might be hard for some, but I've been using debian since hamm. Thanx Jan 10 11:35:43 http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=116589 ? Jan 10 11:36:11 lardman, that's the old stuff Jan 10 11:36:21 oh, ok Jan 10 11:36:21 I'm unable to install skype on my n810 Jan 10 11:36:31 lardman, this is the new stuff: http://wiki.bluez.org/wiki/HOWTO/AudioDevices Jan 10 11:37:00 Update the OS... Jan 10 11:38:17 johnx: thanks, I'll grab the bluez-* source from the maemo repo and take a look... eventually Jan 10 11:38:44 well, actually...we don't think that the bluez code is the problem Jan 10 11:39:11 johnx: I'm not bothered about the problem though, I want to see how much effort might be needed for a dsp task Jan 10 11:39:18 aaah Jan 10 11:39:20 heh Jan 10 11:39:28 probably more like eeeuuurrgghh! Jan 10 11:39:37 :) Jan 10 11:40:25 lets see... is there a quick way to check whether the system is an n800 or an n810 at runtime? Jan 10 11:40:48 feel for the keyboard...:) Jan 10 11:40:51 lol Jan 10 11:41:00 /proc/ something Jan 10 11:41:02 yes, i'll have my PROGRAM feel for the keyboard :P lol Jan 10 11:41:06 hrm k Jan 10 11:41:08 Yes, checkproc dist Jan 10 11:41:09 machineinfo, something like that Jan 10 11:41:10 rm_you: gps? Jan 10 11:41:16 fm-chip Jan 10 11:42:22 just ask the user! "attempt to slide the device into 2 pieces. did this result in cracked plastic or a keyboard?" Jan 10 11:43:54 /proc/component_version Jan 10 11:44:19 hmm, really do need a tab key... Jan 10 11:44:47 Damn the n800 speakers arent half bad Jan 10 11:45:30 so what is the component version info for an n810? Jan 10 11:45:41 product = RX-34 for my n800 Jan 10 11:46:38 RX-44 for the n810 Jan 10 11:46:38 Rx44 Jan 10 11:46:42 k Jan 10 11:46:46 thanks guys :P Jan 10 11:46:56 Np Jan 10 11:48:23 Dang, it's hard to type when you're shivering Jan 10 11:48:41 why are you shivering ? Jan 10 11:49:10 Heaters are a good thing, unfortunately when they don't work... Jan 10 11:49:30 ah - that old chestnut Jan 10 11:49:52 You're left turning on all those old AMD machines on... :) Jan 10 11:49:55 Anyone know if there's a keyboard shortcut on the N810 for TAB? Jan 10 11:50:22 Yes... Try looking above the word selection Jan 10 11:50:38 no, a keyboard shortcut Jan 10 11:50:57 maybe ctrl+i Jan 10 11:51:22 I haven't tried. My N810 is only 2 days old Jan 10 11:51:22 any patch for locking desktop applets in place in os 2008 yet ? Jan 10 11:51:54 That would be nice wouldn't it? Jan 10 11:51:56 johnx: nope, looks like I'll have to tap the screen Jan 10 11:52:08 wow, I'm not so sure about the n810's layout, the more I look at it Jan 10 11:52:23 I was so jealous for a while with just my n800 here Jan 10 11:52:25 I love mine so far Jan 10 11:52:44 I applied for the dev program but didn't get accepted Jan 10 11:52:46 * lardman is also very happy Jan 10 11:52:56 GPS is a good thing, so is a keyboard. Jan 10 11:52:56 then had to look at all the gloating on the planet Jan 10 11:53:08 but still - the n800 is nice :) Jan 10 11:53:12 I have both for bluetooth Jan 10 11:53:21 and i think my keyboard is better... it has a TAB key ^_^ Jan 10 11:53:35 Yes, a reversable camera would be great! Jan 10 11:53:48 the Zaurus Cxx00 keyboard is what's best Jan 10 11:53:57 I can have the same keyboard you do to Jan 10 11:54:06 johnx: agreed there, though the feel was a bit iffy Jan 10 11:54:07 I have two ARM devices both with there own advantages and horrible shortcomings :/ Jan 10 11:54:19 screen was too small though Jan 10 11:54:30 I was willing to live with it Jan 10 11:54:57 I actually still want a larger screen - same size as Psion series 5 would be ideal Jan 10 11:55:00 Anyone want my old cassiopia a-20? :) Jan 10 11:55:23 ki6amd, will it run linux? Jan 10 11:55:27 is it possible to ssh to a n800 via the usb cable since I am having some trouble doing it the regular way Jan 10 11:55:58 simfosho, only way I know would be to use ppp over usb Jan 10 11:56:05 to get a network going Jan 10 11:56:07 and then ssh over that Jan 10 11:56:16 johnx: that's if it can... 2mb memory Jan 10 11:56:24 simfosho: yes, you could setup a usbnet local network link Jan 10 11:56:38 allright Jan 10 11:56:44 simfosho: you need to insmod on both sides though, there's a page in the maemo wiki Jan 10 11:56:46 ki6amd, that would be a no then both for linux and me :P Jan 10 11:56:50 usb networking iirc Jan 10 11:56:52 what madness is this? the C math.ceil function returns a DOUBLE?! Jan 10 11:57:23 rm_you: sure. Why not? Jan 10 11:57:52 the point of floor/ceil is to get integers >_> Jan 10 11:57:57 seems like there is plenty of documentation about it, ty Jan 10 11:58:16 rm_you: seems the libc specification disagrees with you. Jan 10 11:58:21 johnx: it also has a black and white screen, and the pixels are HUGE, no clue how many though, but I bet they're few to count Jan 10 11:58:26 when i do these things in Java that's what i get >_> though types are handled very differently, i suppose Jan 10 11:58:46 There are Jan 10 11:58:51 ki6amd, black and white actually doesn't bother me that much, it's the no linux that's the killer Jan 10 11:59:08 then... can i just (int)ceil(5.4)? Jan 10 11:59:26 does that work in C? Jan 10 11:59:30 rm_you: yes, although you might want to do (int) (ceil (5.4) + 0.5) Jan 10 11:59:41 Busybox maybe... Jan 10 11:59:52 ah yes... fp precision Jan 10 11:59:53 thanks Jan 10 11:59:59 rm_you: yep. Jan 10 12:00:02 nomis: rounding to nearest int? Jan 10 12:00:12 nomis: shouldn't that be floor() in that case? Jan 10 12:00:33 ah, ignore me, floor if you do: floor(5.4 + 0.5) Jan 10 12:00:34 lardman: rm_you wanted the effect of ceil(). Jan 10 12:00:41 yeah Jan 10 12:00:51 the more I code in C... the more I wish i wasn't >_> Jan 10 12:01:00 Johnx: perens made this great project... Busybox Jan 10 12:01:01 lardman: rounding to the nearest int is more easy: (int) (x + 0.5) Jan 10 12:01:01 I keep thinking i'll get used to it... Jan 10 12:01:18 rm_you: wait until you start programming c++. Then you want to go back to C. :) Jan 10 12:01:22 nah Jan 10 12:01:25 i did C++ first Jan 10 12:01:29 C++ is evil. Jan 10 12:01:49 ki6amd, hmm? I like busybox. what about it? Jan 10 12:01:49 i have like 2 years C++ experience... but like... today and yesterday are my first time coding in straight C Jan 10 12:01:57 Aghhh... Mathematical equasions. I think I'm feeling sick Jan 10 12:02:14 i never had to deal with a lot of the stuff it makes me think about <_< Jan 10 12:02:24 johnx: it might work, with modification... Jan 10 12:02:27 though i haven't coded in C++ in like three years either Jan 10 12:02:35 <|tbb|> heya rm_you any chance to get your applet working on a non modified kernel? Jan 10 12:02:46 |tbb|: don't think so :( Jan 10 12:02:58 on a casiopeia a20 with an SH3 processor, WinCE 2.0 and 8MB of RAM Jan 10 12:03:01 |tbb|: if the brightness bothers you that much, just flash. it's fairly painless Jan 10 12:03:18 |tbb|: you just download a couple files and run one of them and reboot, bam new kernel Jan 10 12:03:26 takes about 2 minutes Jan 10 12:03:52 any chance we'll see a good podcatcher for os2008 in the near future? Jan 10 12:04:12 <|tbb|> are you able to replace the brightness control applet from os2008 also Jan 10 12:04:43 I'm dying to download TWiT on here, without resorting to syncing Jan 10 12:09:56 |tbb|: well, that is the goal... you can disable the default one and enable this one Jan 10 12:10:00 when i am done, at least Jan 10 12:10:16 I've tried a couple of multimedia apps, but either they have trouble with rss feeds, or they're just written by people slightly better than me. (I couldn't write hello world in java to save my life) Jan 10 12:10:17 In 2007HE, what file to in need to automatically insmod ext2.ko? Jan 10 12:10:32 lol Jan 10 12:10:47 I don't see an /etc/modules or the likes... Jan 10 12:11:03 I really like Java :/ Jan 10 12:11:40 <|tbb|> will wait then Jan 10 12:11:59 Me too, preferable warm, in a warm coffee shop. Otherwise I'd throw it into the sun... Jan 10 12:12:45 Or rather the "Sun" Jan 10 12:12:56 Sparc station Jan 10 12:14:47 you'd better be laughing at my bad jokes, I'm tired, cold, and cracking myself up Jan 10 12:15:26 <|tbb|> ive done chroot /mnt/initfs how can i restore it to default Jan 10 12:16:55 |tbb|: erm Jan 10 12:17:20 try Jan 10 12:17:36 /usr/sbin/dsmetest -l 100 Jan 10 12:17:48 Anyway to autoload ext2.ko under 2007HE? Jan 10 12:18:18 load it from one of the init.d scripts? Jan 10 12:18:26 <|tbb|> rm_you i know that but how can i get chroot back where it was Jan 10 12:18:43 ROFL best spam ever: "Santa has prepared something special for you in the sack... UWhdazzi82" Jan 10 12:18:50 oh Jan 10 12:18:52 just type exit Jan 10 12:19:55 lardman: Thanks Jan 10 12:21:49 wow... i seriosly think I am going to need to find a GTK Jedi Master Jan 10 12:21:49 I guess I could make a bed in here to keep warm, and let you all get back to your business. Good chatting with you, and thank god you guys know more than I do, or this maemo thing would be up the creek! I just felt I had to check out the early morning maemo community, to see what I bought into. Jan 10 12:22:39 ki6amd: well, we're glad to have more people who also seem to know what they're doing :) lol Jan 10 12:22:45 gotta keep the ratio up! Jan 10 12:23:14 Lol... Hey at least i know what that xterm thing is right? Jan 10 12:23:19 :P Jan 10 12:23:59 'night ki6amd Jan 10 12:24:10 wow... in the last 24 hours, there have been 5 lines of text in #gtk >_> Jan 10 12:25:34 Night guys... Btw... Send stuff for me to burn, I'm fresh out of M$ manuals. Jan 10 12:26:18 we can just flame you directly if you want. :D That should help. :P Jan 10 12:26:22 And it's cold, although it's been colder, I'm just a scrawny geek Jan 10 12:26:53 Oh please??? :P Jan 10 12:27:11 l8r Jan 10 12:28:20 hi murrayc_ Jan 10 12:29:08 hi florian Jan 10 12:35:22 <|tbb|> rm_you, is your nick registered? Jan 10 12:35:30 yes Jan 10 12:35:35 ack did i not login Jan 10 12:36:15 were you getting my messages? Jan 10 12:36:25 hi, I'm trying to run the maemo chat application and I'm always getting the error: We could not read lowmem page stats. Jan 10 12:36:33 does anybody knows what is the problem here? Jan 10 12:36:56 Why is there no /lib/modules? I would think that if that existed, I could just move the ext2.ko module there and it would autoload... Jan 10 12:39:08 because that would be too easy. anyone could just go around and load whatever modules they wanted Jan 10 12:39:13 ack, that reminds me, i forgot to unpack all of fanoush's modules when i installed his kernel >_> Jan 10 12:39:16 I bet you want modprobe instead of insmod, too Jan 10 12:39:50 Ok, what would be a good place to put my modprobe... Jan 10 12:39:56 Feral_Kid, seriously though. I don't think anyone outside of Nokia can think of why they'd do things like that Jan 10 12:40:25 those first 2 posts were both sarcastic Jan 10 12:40:34 AFAIK we don't have modprobe either Jan 10 12:40:56 Man, i'm going to go nuts with chinook in feb Jan 10 12:41:23 * timeless grins Jan 10 12:41:31 * timeless finally defeats a really old quirk Jan 10 12:41:44 nice Jan 10 12:41:53 what was it? Jan 10 12:42:09 johnx, I experimented with loading 2007HE... So far so good... Was able to mount the mmc... Bootmenu working, but when I try to boot the mmc... It reboots to the menu... I am thinking that is because the ext2.ko is not loading... So I am trying to figure out how to automatically load the modules... Jan 10 12:42:37 Feral_Kid, you'll probably need to do it in a script Jan 10 12:42:50 and you'll need to handle modules it depends on manually Jan 10 12:43:17 pupnik: oh, for mxr if you want to have a second name for an entry, e.g. "os2008" that's equivalent to "os2008-50", and you later want to change it to say "os2008-51", you have to fix both a conf file and a pointer on the file system Jan 10 12:43:24 it's a maintenance headache Jan 10 12:43:55 now instead of 2 lines in a conf file and two symlinks, it's 1 line+1 symlink and you only ever need to change the one line Jan 10 12:44:24 well you=me, since i'm really the only one actively using the feature, but i do it at least weekly Jan 10 12:44:28 johnx: Aren't you booting your 800 from MMC? Jan 10 12:44:39 nope Jan 10 12:44:51 hmm Jan 10 12:45:37 I *should be* but I'm going to wait until I have the time to do a fresh install so I can capture a pristine filesystem image for later use Jan 10 12:46:34 * czr tickles timeless Jan 10 12:46:37 johnx: oh? Jan 10 12:46:43 Does anyone have a boot script to autoload modules? Jan 10 12:46:44 i'm still not sure i know why i'd want to Jan 10 12:47:15 I want to take a swing at making a more debian-like system and doing it to a sd card seems a lot smarter Jan 10 12:47:28 then I'd have a pristine image to use when I screwed it up as well Jan 10 12:55:18 Hi .... again Jan 10 12:58:23 hey ... someone can help me on setting network under scratchbox ... i ve a maemo vmware image ... i ve network setted and working on this vmimage but under scratchbox i can t join repository.maemo.org with apt ... Jan 10 12:58:24 czr? Jan 10 12:58:43 czr: other than garage being broken, what's up? Jan 10 12:59:05 maemo: /etc/nsswitch.conf /etc/resolve.conf Jan 10 12:59:15 or the scratchbox equivs Jan 10 12:59:28 maemo: googling will find plenty of pages that document this stuff Jan 10 12:59:37 although most of them have questionable advice, but hey :) Jan 10 13:00:41 pupnik, ping Jan 10 13:01:23 oups my nick Jan 10 13:01:28 thx timeless Jan 10 13:02:18 maemom according to http://linuxuk.blogspot.com/2008/01/installing-os2008-development.html , the trick is to change /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf so hosts only use dns Jan 10 13:02:26 (and not file, nor mdns or something) Jan 10 13:02:36 thx i ll try Jan 10 13:02:47 well, files and fns Jan 10 13:02:51 err files and *dns* Jan 10 13:02:56 * timeless chuckles Jan 10 13:03:06 read links, we're terrible typists today :) Jan 10 13:03:27 * mgedmin disagrees with melmoth's "not file" bit Jan 10 13:03:33 /etc/hosts is useful Jan 10 13:03:33 :) Jan 10 13:03:34 thx Jan 10 13:03:37 no need to nuke it Jan 10 13:03:48 mgedmin: it's the link that said not file Jan 10 13:03:58 and that's why i said the web is full of questionable advice :) Jan 10 13:04:36 mgedmin: well, i dont know if it s true or not (i did n,ot change the file bit, only mdns back in maemo2007), but the link says to remove file too Jan 10 13:04:39 dont ask me why Jan 10 13:05:27 funnyly enough, i still have strange resolution problem when using gnome-vfs to catch http url. Jan 10 13:05:34 * mgedmin goes to comment on that post Jan 10 13:06:20 * timeless doesn't like gnomevfs Jan 10 13:06:23 it doesn't play well w/ gecko Jan 10 13:06:26 timeless, just got back. 20h of flying and loitering around airports and looking for places to smoke (when there were none) was not fun :-) Jan 10 13:06:34 heh Jan 10 13:06:42 you gotta kick the habit :) Jan 10 13:06:53 trying to stay awake until 10pm at least so that my clock doesn't go bonkers Jan 10 13:07:09 theoretically, the starvation will decrease if you chew a cigarette :) Jan 10 13:07:27 yeah, seems like I'm forced to! When I was going to the states, at least amsterdam still had one bar where I could smoke. When I came back, they rearranged everything and no smoking anywhere in the airport.. bleh. Jan 10 13:07:40 wow Jan 10 13:07:44 melmoth, right :-) Jan 10 13:07:51 i was in AMS mid december and they still had a smoking lounge Jan 10 13:07:57 amusingly enough, i seriously considered using it Jan 10 13:08:06 timeless, when I left, outside temp was 25 C. 8 C in detroit. 6 C in amsterdam. 3 C here. bleh. Jan 10 13:08:08 although, that would have been to light candles, not to smoke Jan 10 13:08:24 heh Jan 10 13:08:37 * timeless frowns Jan 10 13:08:37 I think they did the reshuffle start of '08 Jan 10 13:09:10 in preparation to the ban on smoking in public places that comes into effect in .nl in july or smt like that Jan 10 13:09:37 they also had a weird 3D security scanner in AMS Jan 10 13:09:39 * timeless frowns Jan 10 13:09:48 looked like a revolving door. but wasn't. Jan 10 13:09:50 this code was 90% working, i tried to improve it, now it's 100% broken Jan 10 13:10:00 timeless, you improved it too much :-) Jan 10 13:10:00 interesting, that i don't remember Jan 10 13:10:07 I think it's new as well. Jan 10 13:10:22 they insisted I unpacked my carry-on to look at the cup that I was carrying with me Jan 10 13:10:30 interesting Jan 10 13:10:31 "it has something inside it". yeah. two shot glasses!.. Jan 10 13:10:45 * timeless remembers having to unpack a backpack in one place Jan 10 13:10:48 unpacking and then packing again is bleh. Jan 10 13:11:01 * timeless was carrying < 1/2 dozen tablets + chargers :) Jan 10 13:11:10 no laptop :) Jan 10 13:11:16 I think it was in Amsterdam that the security guys asked me to pull out my 770 out of the backpack Jan 10 13:11:25 and then they saw the "Nokia" logo on it and waved me along Jan 10 13:11:28 well, all my chargers were in the other bag, so that wasn't the issue. had a lot of electronics in the carry-on though Jan 10 13:11:40 i charge at airports :) Jan 10 13:11:43 looks like the US thinks it's ok to check what's actually *on* the laptop when you're crossing the border now Jan 10 13:11:51 packing chargers is just asking for your luggage to get lost Jan 10 13:11:57 johnx, really? Jan 10 13:12:01 czr: really Jan 10 13:12:07 that was big news a few days ago Jan 10 13:12:14 hmm. I need to setup a harmless linux partition on mine then Jan 10 13:12:20 then the whole lithium batter thing Jan 10 13:12:27 it's gonna really suck the next time I fly Jan 10 13:12:33 Hi folks. Anyone here have any experience with fuppes and a Nxxx? Jan 10 13:12:39 I have a shiny new 810 Jan 10 13:12:58 And I'd like to play my oggs from my household Linux box. Jan 10 13:13:04 * timeless has a rusty old n800 Jan 10 13:13:16 I don't have anything Jan 10 13:13:19 seb_: Nokia hates Vorbis Jan 10 13:13:21 seb_, I haven't heard of fuppes but I've had good luck with gmediaserver (sp?) Jan 10 13:13:34 * Khertan2 still waiting his express delivry since a week Jan 10 13:13:40 hey inz Jan 10 13:13:45 I compiled and installed fuppes and that seems to run, but Media Streamer fails to see it. Is there a port I need to choose for the server? Jan 10 13:13:46 khertan: nice express service there Jan 10 13:13:47 seb_: fuppes did well with my 770 and Canola (1) and Mediastreamer. Jan 10 13:13:49 sup czr Jan 10 13:14:00 inz, back in oh-dreary-land. Jan 10 13:14:02 johnx: Tried gmediaserver too, same problem. Jan 10 13:14:07 timeless: yes ... ups and nokia shop sucks Jan 10 13:14:16 czr, still on #maemo -- I'm surprised Jan 10 13:14:30 on gmediaserver, I think I had to leave it in "visible" mode or something, let me check details Jan 10 13:14:40 inz, you aren't the only one :-) Jan 10 13:14:56 if the channel name would be > 10 chars, I wouldn't probably have joined :-) Jan 10 13:14:56 johnx: ok, I'll search the manpage too. Jan 10 13:15:24 ahhhh i've been staring at this GTK widget for like 2 hours Jan 10 13:15:24 ah Jan 10 13:15:26 expire time Jan 10 13:15:33 i think it's starting to stare BACK >_< Jan 10 13:15:35 crank it up to an hour or so and see if it works Jan 10 13:15:36 czr, so you needed some timewaster and #maemo was short 'nuff? Jan 10 13:15:45 johnx: Ok Jan 10 13:15:51 johnx: Will try now. Jan 10 13:15:53 khertan2: ime ups lets you track shipments, do you have the tracking id? Jan 10 13:16:03 inz, yeah :-). trying to avoid unpacking and cleaning and all that crap. Jan 10 13:16:07 i'm gonna go to sleep before GTK starts writing me >_> Jan 10 13:16:09 night Jan 10 13:16:29 * timeless frowns Jan 10 13:16:38 hi Jan 10 13:16:39 anyone know what the window software updater actually does? Jan 10 13:16:42 'night rm_you Jan 10 13:16:43 czr, well, IRC is a good excuse... ;) Jan 10 13:16:50 like, will it download a flash image for each of 770, n800, n810? Jan 10 13:17:07 or does it remember the last flashed device and grab an update for that? Jan 10 13:17:07 timeless: no ... as nokia online french shop don t give it due to problem and they don t respond to phone. and i ven t the time to wait more than 30min to wait to phone Jan 10 13:17:14 czr, "Why are your suitcases still packed" - "I _had_ to be on IRC" Jan 10 13:17:22 inz, "I'd Rather Chill" Jan 10 13:17:40 true.. true.. although I have no one to ask that question, so there's a real risk of me never unpacking the bags Jan 10 13:17:50 timeless: but i ll wait ... as it s a device from the mameo discount program Jan 10 13:18:02 is it possible to install wine app on n810? Jan 10 13:18:10 czr, hope you have some dirty laundry there that will start to smell... Jan 10 13:18:15 k-fox: how many win32-arm apps do you know of? Jan 10 13:18:32 most win32 apps i know of are win32-ia32 Jan 10 13:18:38 timeless: but i know that i hate ups ... Jan 10 13:18:40 inz, nope. washed everything up before leaving. but I have two packages of wasabi peanuts. I wonder how long they'd take to start .. living. Jan 10 13:18:51 K-Fox, nope. Jan 10 13:19:00 umm... Jan 10 13:19:16 quake3 <--- this? Jan 10 13:19:25 I think I need to install Canola Jan 10 13:19:25 timeless: and i ll never get express delivry at nokia shop ... Jan 10 13:19:27 k-fox: quake and friends can be had for linux Jan 10 13:19:51 k-fox: but one does not typically want to try emulating ia32 anywhere Jan 10 13:20:07 ia32> Jan 10 13:20:10 ? Jan 10 13:20:15 ia32 = x86 Jan 10 13:20:26 thanks Jan 10 13:20:38 K-Fox, the short answer is no one will ever get wine running on the N8x0 stuff which is ARM not x86 Jan 10 13:20:51 wine translates API calls, not emulates a processor Jan 10 13:20:57 fore more info hit up google Jan 10 13:21:06 the less useful answer is that you could get wine for arm Jan 10 13:21:12 but it'd let you run all of 5 programs Jan 10 13:21:15 none of which are useful Jan 10 13:21:32 because as johnx wrote it's not emulating the processor, just the api Jan 10 13:21:58 in theory you could probably use wine-arm to run windows mobile /wince applications Jan 10 13:21:59 timeless, useless? well...I guess that depends on how desparate you are to edit registry files on your N8x0 Jan 10 13:22:22 does wine support any of the WinCE API? isn't that something separate from win32? Jan 10 13:22:53 inz, I forgot to take the coffee filter (with coffee) before leaving on the trip! Jan 10 13:22:54 johnx: i'm not sure how much wine support there is for wince Jan 10 13:22:58 inz, does that qualify? :-) Jan 10 13:23:03 there's definitely some discussion of it Jan 10 13:23:41 czr, if you put it into the suitcase, then maybe Jan 10 13:24:00 hrm, not much discussion Jan 10 13:24:11 inz, I can bring it to you Jan 10 13:25:02 johnx: as long as a win library isn't doing hardware access, it's generally possible to just host it in wine Jan 10 13:25:21 so it'd probably "just" be a matter of implementing the kernel and some halish bits :) Jan 10 13:25:28 is it possible to install ubunut,other linux appl(*.rpm) on n810 ? Jan 10 13:25:31 It has a nice screen the N810. I have an eeePc too, so I'm not getting too much work done today... Jan 10 13:25:50 k-fox: it's risky, but you can try to install some debian related stuff Jan 10 13:25:54 i am going to buy n810 Jan 10 13:25:55 (incl ubuntu) Jan 10 13:26:07 czr, If you really want to bring it here, you're welcome to put it in the compost in front of the house ^^ Jan 10 13:26:18 K-Fox, please realize that the N810 is not compatible with x86 software Jan 10 13:26:36 right, most ubuntu stuff you think of is ia32 Jan 10 13:26:40 inz, I'll stick it into the mailbox and then you can decide what to do with it :-) Jan 10 13:26:40 some debian stuff wow Jan 10 13:26:45 so it's no more helpful than win32-ia32 stuff Jan 10 13:27:03 wine would be cool on maemo :) Jan 10 13:27:14 K-Fox, you can't just think of it as a normal Linux system where you can run anything. Most things that aren't already provided for it will need to be recompiled at least Jan 10 13:27:23 locusf: yeah, i could finally run decent versions of winmine and sol Jan 10 13:27:30 timeless :-) Jan 10 13:27:34 timeless: lol :) Jan 10 13:27:35 and possibly hacked up to make them compile Jan 10 13:27:35 * timeless is amazed at how poorly people manage to implement those two games Jan 10 13:27:49 n810 is not normal Linux system ? Jan 10 13:27:51 czr, if you're ready to take the ~450 km trip just for that, go ahead ;) Jan 10 13:27:56 maemodrac is kinda sucky Jan 10 13:27:58 i mean, seriously, it shouldn't be hard to knock off winmine or sol properly Jan 10 13:28:04 inz, you'd be suprised what I do just for the heck of it. Jan 10 13:28:06 but boy am i surprised each time i try a knock off Jan 10 13:28:18 inz, although I don't have a car at my disposal right now, so this project will have to wait a bit Jan 10 13:28:31 * czr stores the coffee filter for later use Jan 10 13:28:50 K-Fox, it is Linux. But Linux runs on many processors, and the processor in the N810 is not x86 compatible Jan 10 13:29:02 czr, what, I though the people living "inside" kehä-3 never came outside voluntarily Jan 10 13:29:35 inz, who told you that I am a people anyway :-) Jan 10 13:29:56 czr, ahh, sorry, my fault Jan 10 13:29:57 johnx, ok Jan 10 13:30:06 K-Fox, You should look around http://internettablettalk.com/forums a little to get an idea of what software is available, also: http://downloads.maemo.org Jan 10 13:30:09 inz, I do travel a bit once a while, while doing training stuff sometimes Jan 10 13:30:25 inz, probably would travel more if I'd have a car, but can't be bothered with it atm. Jan 10 13:30:28 czr, do you carry a huge cluebat with you? Jan 10 13:30:48 inz, neh, I'm old school, I use laptop power cables Jan 10 13:30:58 I like the sound better.. Jan 10 13:30:59 go go http://internettablettalk.com/forums Jan 10 13:31:20 laptops are supposed to come with power cables? I thought they were disposable! Jan 10 13:31:35 the laptops or the power cables/ Jan 10 13:31:45 the laptops Jan 10 13:31:54 use them until the battery's dead, then throw them away... Jan 10 13:31:57 the sound that the cables makes when they make contact with people who require attention. Jan 10 13:32:05 whap? Jan 10 13:32:09 I should be able to click on the "Click to Install" icon on downloads.maemo.org, right? Doesn't seem to be working right now :( Jan 10 13:32:23 timeless, yup. until you break a cable in, then it's more of a "flop" Jan 10 13:32:23 like a hundred thousand people simultaneously saying, "whop" ? Jan 10 13:32:31 Oh, I tell a lie. Jan 10 13:32:43 Here we go.. Jan 10 13:32:44 yay! lies! woo! Jan 10 13:35:33 hmm, the device program date has been extended - has that stopped all the whining? Jan 10 13:36:08 Tak, I think most of the italians received their devices? Jan 10 13:36:10 anyways, I should get to sleep Jan 10 13:36:12 'night all Jan 10 13:36:13 * czr hides & runs Jan 10 13:36:54 good night?? it's 14:36 Jan 10 13:36:59 o.O? Jan 10 13:37:32 * Nermal introduces thopieka1 to the idea of timezones Jan 10 13:37:58 oh yes I forget^^ Jan 10 13:38:17 * czr puts "pants of multiple timezones" on thopieka1 Jan 10 13:38:25 now you will never forget Jan 10 13:38:26 haha, bam Jan 10 13:42:33 maemo linux is various than wince appl,iphone appl? Jan 10 13:43:04 eh..various? different, you mean? Of course it is. Jan 10 13:44:43 is it more abundant? Jan 10 13:45:05 more extravagant at least Jan 10 13:45:15 not to mention ostentatious Jan 10 13:45:25 even paris hilton likes it Jan 10 13:46:25 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=paris+hilton%27s+monkey Jan 10 13:57:13 GRmblblbl Jan 10 13:57:25 why do they remove /usr/share/doc/osso-xterm ? Jan 10 13:57:28 seb__: depends on the app in question, I guess. Jan 10 13:57:30 no source, no email of coders... Jan 10 13:57:37 melmoth: space Jan 10 13:58:18 melmoth: you should be able to get a contact from apt-cache show osso-xterm. But the right way is to raise bugs, I suppose Jan 10 13:58:27 grumble... on os2007 the xterm (3rd party) had all the button i needed (ctrl-a,ctrl-n,ctrl-p) Jan 10 13:58:37 anyone else having constant problems with n810 and gprs/edge/3g dropping via bluetooth? and connection manager not noticing connection is dropped Jan 10 13:59:21 hmm, same as dpkg -s...no info Jan 10 13:59:29 there are info about the upstream people though: Jan 10 13:59:39 Description: X Terminal Emulator for OSSO This package contains an X Terminal Emulator which is based on xterminal (http://www.os-cillation.com/article.php?sid=40) by Benedikt Meurer and Francois Le Clainche Jan 10 13:59:52 but i wonder if those are xterminal people or osso-xterm one Jan 10 13:59:58 Oh nice... The telepathy irc thing seems to work decently Jan 10 14:00:45 apt-cache show osso-xterm ? Jan 10 14:01:12 melmoth: you can define new shortcuts on the built-in X Terminal as you could with the 3rd party one Jan 10 14:02:36 Jaffa, and how to you put a ctrl in the new shortcut ? Jan 10 14:03:02 p Jan 10 14:03:04 for example Jan 10 14:03:06 you cannot even edit the existing ctrl one to see how the ctrl key is encoded. Jan 10 14:03:09 ohhh, lets check that Jan 10 14:03:22 works for alt alteast, haven't tried the ctrl Jan 10 14:03:24 melmoth: it's using keysyms AIUI Jan 10 14:05:19 hey all! :D Jan 10 14:05:23 lo maddler :) Jan 10 14:05:42 great, it works ! Jan 10 14:06:02 i can use screen and irssi again ! Jan 10 14:07:29 :) Jan 10 14:08:56 * maddler just got his n810! :D Jan 10 14:09:33 haha Jan 10 14:09:35 congratulations Jan 10 14:09:40 with or without the code ?:D Jan 10 14:09:42 yep! :D Jan 10 14:09:49 with... :D Jan 10 14:10:02 but I think I was going to buy one even w/o :D Jan 10 14:10:19 still i'll wait several weeks before reenabling the dev list deliveries :) Jan 10 14:10:33 guardian: why? Jan 10 14:10:36 hah Jan 10 14:10:50 because it's flooded with people whining about the contribution codes Jan 10 14:11:00 hehehehe... true... :) Jan 10 14:12:22 fantastic kde on n800 :P Jan 10 14:13:58 aye - wonder when / if gnome will be ported Jan 10 14:14:11 why, why?! Jan 10 14:14:18 I prefer gtk to qt Jan 10 14:14:27 * Tak try to remove pain from head with icepick Jan 10 14:14:28 last used kde when it was at 0.4 beta :) Jan 10 14:14:50 yes, but why would you want a heavy desktop environment on an IT? Jan 10 14:15:09 to attract women, obviously Jan 10 14:15:11 here kde work very well Jan 10 14:15:17 no slow at all Jan 10 14:15:27 (os2008) Jan 10 14:17:42 for now i'm not using swap file Jan 10 14:29:53 tak: heavy=gnome :) Jan 10 14:34:09 heavy.matches(/(gnome|kde)/i) Jan 10 14:34:49 L0cutus: heya! :D Jan 10 14:42:36 ciao maddler :) Jan 10 14:43:31 now i need to know how 'simulate' the third mouse button click... Jan 10 14:52:01 garage.maemo.org is down? Jan 10 14:52:39 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/load-applet/ here is like down Jan 10 14:54:05 garage has been down for a couple of hours Jan 10 15:00:15 timeless: thought so Jan 10 15:03:27 garage is not down here ... but very very slow :( Jan 10 15:20:19 the fact that my maemo device code was just extended to the end of July is not heartening ;-) Jan 10 15:20:48 why not? Jan 10 15:23:44 timeless: because it indicates they think it might *take* that long Jan 10 15:24:00 perhaps it's just to reassure people Jan 10 15:25:08 a couple of people were publicly panicking: "THEY MIGHT NOT BE IN STOCK UNTIL FEBRUARY 19 AND THE CODES EXPIRE MARCH 1!!!!!!" Jan 10 15:25:43 they could pre-order Jan 10 15:26:17 the consensus seems to be that the codes will not be accepted until the devices are in stock Jan 10 15:27:13 hi does anyone know of a repository with twisted packages on it? Jan 10 15:27:18 what are these codes for? Jan 10 15:27:21 for chinook Jan 10 15:27:23 twisted? Jan 10 15:27:36 deejoe: discount codes Jan 10 15:27:41 ah. Jan 10 15:27:50 timeless: twisted is a python web framework Jan 10 15:30:02 yah Jan 10 15:32:46 deejoe: best bet is to check http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ Jan 10 15:32:47 Will various SDK's coexist in the same sb environment? Jan 10 15:36:38 hmm, seems they will but no mention how to in the install text. Jan 10 15:40:12 sb-menu Jan 10 15:40:24 you can run only one at the time though Jan 10 15:40:38 if you give each sdk its own scratchbox env using sb-menu, they'll coexist Jan 10 15:40:48 although you can only use one at a time iirc Jan 10 15:40:53 (one per user?) Jan 10 15:41:14 one per user per installation Jan 10 15:41:31 i.e. you can have two scratchboxes running at the same time (I think) Jan 10 15:41:37 basically if you own the box (and you have to), just create a bunch of users, one per sdk Jan 10 15:42:18 stick them into a common group and you can just ssh sdk-name (w/ enough magic in ~/.ssh/config) Jan 10 15:42:40 ooo me head hurts :) Jan 10 15:42:45 ~if you believe in magic, and i hope you do~ Jan 10 15:45:24 Thanks for the tips. I don't want anything sophisticated as I will be doing bora/chinook not both. ATM I am trying to figure out if I can use the install scripts without messing up the existing 2.2 targets. Jan 10 15:45:51 Hi, just wondering if people are having trouble accessing garage? Jan 10 15:46:03 fhsieh: they say it's very slow Jan 10 15:46:33 alright, then at least it's not just me ;) Jan 10 15:46:54 what part of garage do you guys need? Jan 10 15:47:10 if you need a project page, timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/{projectname}/www/ probably has it Jan 10 15:47:10 i need compiz fusion on the n800 Jan 10 15:47:12 ;) Jan 10 15:47:25 * timeless needs a billion dollars (tax free) Jan 10 15:48:00 well that wouldnt be bad Jan 10 15:49:01 i was just testing the new maemocjk release on my n800--got it installed fine, but then can't seem to get the matchbox-keyboard app (figure it's because garage keeps timing out) Jan 10 15:54:41 is it me or garage.maemo.org is down Jan 10 15:54:49 ? Jan 10 15:54:52 it's down Jan 10 15:55:24 thx Jan 10 16:19:09 hey Jan 10 16:20:01 it's down. Jan 10 16:20:05 I mean, hey! Jan 10 16:21:55 ;) Jan 10 16:22:20 wow - the new training materials look great Jan 10 16:22:29 this is awesome! Jan 10 16:22:47 training my ass they should fix garage so that it never goes down again Jan 10 16:23:37 it would be remarkable if they could train your ass to do that Jan 10 16:23:52 :) Jan 10 16:24:16 kde on n810 Jan 10 16:24:18 what's the point ? Jan 10 16:24:38 they did it themselves? Jan 10 16:35:15 where can I find the sources of the SIP client included in Os2008? Jan 10 16:35:34 hi _berto_ :) Jan 10 16:35:49 <_berto_> hi! Jan 10 16:39:50 hmm, skype isn't installable on n810 fresh out of the box Jan 10 16:39:53 is that a known thing? Jan 10 16:40:35 Andy80: telepathy.freedesktop.org Jan 10 16:40:44 Andy80: it's a UI for telepathy-sofiasip and telepathy-stream-engine Jan 10 16:40:52 (we're in #telepathy) Jan 10 16:41:34 vegai: yes, you have to update to the latest firmware Jan 10 16:42:47 Robot101: the UI sources are available too? Jan 10 16:42:58 no Jan 10 16:43:00 welcome wusel_ Jan 10 16:43:18 but you can replace it with a different UI... :) Jan 10 16:43:28 Cord: thanks. Jan 10 16:43:29 in GNOME we're working on Empathy, based off Gossip's UI Jan 10 16:47:26 Robot101: I hope it can be a valid ekiga substitute :) Jan 10 16:48:51 well, we're trying to make it possible to do lots of things :) Jan 10 16:49:01 add IM and collaborative functionality to any app in the desktop Jan 10 16:49:22 kinda like the N810 "IM client" is split to Contacts, Chat, Call, Accounts, Presence... Jan 10 16:49:34 but actually able to do stuff that other IM clients can't do Jan 10 16:54:55 the SIP client of 810 is very very good :) Jan 10 16:55:08 multi account... very integrated with the Oa Jan 10 16:55:09 Os Jan 10 16:55:18 Robot101, this "Contacts" part is the one which use EDS? Jan 10 16:56:16 henrique: yeah Jan 10 16:56:39 Andy80: thanks... we try our best. and then the marketing department add Gizmo and Skype on top and go "LOOK! VOIP!" :( Jan 10 16:56:52 Andy80: do you know about the extra backends you can get? Jan 10 16:57:05 no.. Jan 10 16:57:36 which are? Jan 10 16:58:02 http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/ Jan 10 16:58:16 Robot101, interesting, I've started studying telepathy now and the issue is how to get all IM contacts (for all accounts)... do you know if this is available by some API? Jan 10 16:58:23 IRC, MSN, AIM, Yahoo, ICQ Jan 10 16:59:15 henrique: which specifically do you want - all of the contacts on each of your IM accounts, or all of the people in the address book, which can represent >1 IM address? Jan 10 16:59:15 Robot101: Skype client is ugly :( very very slow and it doesn't support video calls. While video-calls with Internet Call client of n810 are great :) Jan 10 17:00:44 Robot101, well, already have the contacts list through abook API, so now I need a way to get all IM contacts through telepathy Jan 10 17:01:22 henrique: all of the IM contacts are created in the address book Jan 10 17:01:40 Robot101, of course, if I could get all contacts in address book *and* all people in each IM account would be great Jan 10 17:02:17 that's what you get from eds at the moment Jan 10 17:02:18 . o O ( storage overflow error ) Jan 10 17:02:29 eds-sync makes sure every telepathy contact you're subscribed to exists in the address book Jan 10 17:03:06 which program is this? eds-sync? Jan 10 17:04:36 it's a background process Jan 10 17:04:58 mission control launches it when the telepathy backends go online and have contact list channels Jan 10 17:06:38 Robot101, that's great, so getting all contacts through osso-addressbook API will give me all IM contacts too? Jan 10 17:06:54 yeah Jan 10 17:07:57 Robot101, right, thank you very much! :) Jan 10 17:09:37 garage still down? Jan 10 17:11:23 damn, the gps receiver seems not to be that reliable... it's very difficult for it to get a fix Jan 10 17:13:31 basically, you don't have to have anything over your head Jan 10 17:32:02 has anyone got a copy of the ruby-maemo debs? Jan 10 17:32:36 or even just the ruby deb? Jan 10 17:33:19 yes. Jan 10 17:33:46 Tak: is there a server I can get them from while maemo.rubyx.co.uk is down? Jan 10 17:35:08 not afaik, but I could email them to you or something Jan 10 17:35:59 that'd be great! Jan 10 17:36:46 maemogarage@scottishclimbs.com, please Jan 10 17:37:20 Tak: do you have rubygems also? Jan 10 17:37:23 you want chinook or bora? Jan 10 17:37:27 yes Jan 10 17:37:40 it's a PITA on the device, however Jan 10 17:37:53 Hi ! Jan 10 17:37:59 chinook, please :) Jan 10 17:38:11 Tak: why's it a PITA? Jan 10 17:38:27 Is there some french which receive their discounted n810 device here ? Jan 10 17:38:48 khertan: the code was still not recognise this morning Jan 10 17:38:55 khertan: was your recognised ? Jan 10 17:39:15 melmoth: hum i ve commanded mine last friday on the french store Jan 10 17:39:18 actually, the page had an internal server error today. Jan 10 17:39:22 like two other people Jan 10 17:39:24 And your code worked ? crap. Jan 10 17:39:28 mine did not Jan 10 17:39:30 yes Jan 10 17:39:41 the new one you received in the mail ? Jan 10 17:39:45 yop Jan 10 17:40:07 but i ve still not received it ... and it seems command has been canceled ... Jan 10 17:40:37 ("it" being rubygems) Jan 10 17:40:43 no email ... no contacts ... it s why i ask if someone have informations ? Jan 10 17:41:03 i ve see that i ve not be debited on my credit card ... Jan 10 17:41:35 and 1 week for an express delivery .... a bit too ... Jan 10 17:45:33 hi Jan 10 17:46:19 can someone tell how fast modem does maemo.org use to connect to internet? fetching from there is nightmare ;( Jan 10 17:47:17 I heard a rumor it was a 14400 Jan 10 17:47:52 eh, don't believe everything you hear. Jan 10 17:47:56 it's obviously 2400bps Jan 10 17:48:11 heh.. I thought that it is at least 33600 Jan 10 17:49:24 <|tbb|> inz, thats just a rumour, it only takes that long cause they have to change the floppy disks permanently (1,44MB) Jan 10 17:49:55 Spakman_: sending Jan 10 17:50:01 Oh, I thought they used 720 kB 5,25" floppies Jan 10 17:50:15 inz: not 1MB 8" ones? Jan 10 17:50:32 no, it's just because it uses RFC 2549 Jan 10 17:50:40 I have proof Jan 10 17:50:46 <|tbb|> who knows Jan 10 17:51:13 <|tbb|> inz is it possible to add transparency to o-xterm Jan 10 17:55:11 say, i'm trying to get maemo mapper to work, what device should I try to use ? Jan 10 17:55:42 |tbb|, might be, but it would take up some extra memory, I guess Jan 10 17:56:20 <|tbb|> also if its optional Jan 10 17:56:35 |tbb|, when most likely not Jan 10 17:56:57 Crashn810: bluetooth and leave the entry blank Jan 10 17:57:21 <|tbb|> then add it to your endless wishlist ;) Jan 10 17:58:19 Tak: got the files, thank you very much! Jan 10 17:58:32 |tbb|, vte has vte_terminal_background_transparent, which would do "pseudo transparency" Jan 10 17:58:42 np Jan 10 17:59:04 <|tbb|> vte? Jan 10 18:01:30 |tbb|, the terminal emulation library osso-xterm uses Jan 10 18:02:04 <|tbb|> so what next? Jan 10 18:04:50 anyone using openembedded instead of scratchbox for maemo4? Jan 10 18:05:20 vte also supports true transparency, iirc Jan 10 18:05:31 when you're running a composition manager Jan 10 18:05:53 (which it detects from some X root window property... or was that a named selection?) Jan 10 18:08:00 scruggs: cheers, thanks Jan 10 18:08:28 anyone know how I can get the ruby header files in my scrathbox environment? I'm still struggling to head round scratchbox... Jan 10 18:12:17 i do not have any thing in apt-cache search ruby Jan 10 18:12:22 but they should be in the -dev package Jan 10 18:13:27 ah...I didn't send the -dev package - would you like it? Jan 10 18:13:27 are there anyone who knows how to use the telepathy's chat on maemo chinook? Jan 10 18:14:01 I'm trying to run it, but it just doesn't open and all I get in the terminal is the warning "We could not read lowmem page stats" Jan 10 18:16:01 machine pas a jour , qu on peut pas mettre a jour par ce que c est une fc2 ? Jan 10 18:16:03 ousp Jan 10 18:16:52 Tak: yes, please! :) Jan 10 18:22:45 maemo platform has a separate version qemu that they use? or any specific patches with qemu that is used? Jan 10 18:32:33 what would be the best way to get files on my n810 ? Jan 10 18:32:48 ...from where? Jan 10 18:32:58 another computer, using wifi Jan 10 18:33:13 http? ftp? scp? Jan 10 18:33:13 scp ? But if I have a whole lot of files ? Is there a samba client ? Jan 10 18:33:38 somebody ported gtfp, which supports scp Jan 10 18:33:40 what's the best way to poll the value exposed in a sysfs file? Jan 10 18:34:03 just using standard file functions? Jan 10 18:34:15 scp -r or rsync Jan 10 18:34:32 there's a glib function to add a callback for a file change iirc Jan 10 18:34:34 it's a long time i don't do this stuff, i would like to be up to dated to the state of the arte Jan 10 18:34:47 Tak: i guess it doesn't work for proc and sysfs Jan 10 18:35:01 at least it didn't work the last time i used inotify and stuff like that Jan 10 18:35:18 it definitely works for sysfs; it's being used in kagu Jan 10 18:35:25 serious? Jan 10 18:35:25 dunno about proc Jan 10 18:35:32 that's cool Jan 10 18:37:29 Tak: i guess you are referring to GIOChannels Jan 10 18:38:30 gobject.io_add_watch() in python - browsing for C equivalent Jan 10 18:38:56 g_io_add_watch Jan 10 18:38:57 yep Jan 10 18:39:12 i used that a lot of times for networking sutff Jan 10 18:39:14 stuff Jan 10 18:39:15 I guess http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/unstable/glib-IO-Channels.html#g-io-add-watch Jan 10 18:39:16 yeah Jan 10 18:41:15 Tak: thanks a lot for the dev file too - really appreciate it. Jan 10 18:42:02 np again Jan 10 18:49:53 Hi! Jan 10 18:55:54 is it next week yet, any word on USA or Canada? Jan 10 18:59:04 <__k-s__> penguinbait: hey dude Jan 10 18:59:07 <__k-s__> penguinbait: congrats Jan 10 18:59:14 <__k-s__> I'm a big fan of your efforts Jan 10 18:59:27 <__k-s__> keep them coming Jan 10 19:01:35 penguinbait for president ! :) Jan 10 19:01:57 <__k-s__> :-D Jan 10 19:03:04 thank Jan 10 19:03:06 s Jan 10 19:03:27 did you get all your questions answered? Jan 10 19:04:22 I concede to Hillary :) Jan 10 19:12:01 <|tbb|> rm_you r u around Jan 10 19:12:27 >20 000 context switches and > 10 000 interrupts per 5 second on N770 is normal? Jan 10 19:13:00 the tablet freezes sometimes and now I got vmstat to actually see, whats going on Jan 10 19:13:21 100% processor is just waiting Jan 10 19:13:43 I want an nmon port, but alas Nigel wont cough up the source code Jan 10 19:15:54 you try using the 'generic; firefox port in KDE, penguinbait? Jan 10 19:19:03 (minefield?) Jan 10 19:20:22 anyone tried to use the new apple bt keyboard with maemo? Jan 10 19:20:30 I use it -- works great Jan 10 19:20:37 and easily packable. Jan 10 19:20:54 http://www.sfbags.com/products/keyboardcases/keyboard.htm Jan 10 19:21:07 they make a case for the keyboard that may fit the tablet also Jan 10 19:21:14 fysa: ok, thx Jan 10 19:21:31 http://www.sfbags.com/products/keyboardcases/images/KB-Travel-Fit1-md.jpg Jan 10 19:41:29 penguinbait, Do you have to still dual boot in order to install KDE? Jan 10 19:42:58 nevermind, That was a dumb question Jan 10 19:42:59 :P Jan 10 19:52:17 hey skibur Jan 10 19:52:30 <|R> did anybody kill the wabbit yet? Jan 10 19:52:30 skibur NO Jan 10 19:52:42 no dead wabbits here Jan 10 19:57:53 <|R> hehe Jan 10 19:58:17 besides, it's duck season. Jan 10 19:59:05 ? Jan 10 19:59:06 anyone know how I can import certificates into the certificate manager ? Jan 10 19:59:23 I created the certificates with the notes app, which is probably messing with the whole thing Jan 10 19:59:27 what app should I use , Jan 10 19:59:28 ? Jan 10 19:59:34 skibur no dual boot is not necesart to instal KDE Jan 10 20:00:01 All I need to have is a 2GB+ card, FAT32 Jan 10 20:00:05 yup Jan 10 20:00:16 empty 2GB card Jan 10 20:00:28 no partitions what so ever Jan 10 20:00:33 copy all files to mmc card and install Jan 10 20:00:38 nice Jan 10 20:01:01 no more initfs Jan 10 20:01:21 it will automagically create a file called local.img on mmc which is a partition, but you dont need to do anythign Jan 10 20:01:26 no initfs Jan 10 20:01:35 great Jan 10 20:01:41 I will try it now Jan 10 20:01:47 starting to download Jan 10 20:02:40 verify all the file sizes after download, my hosting was messing up and everyone was getting short reads, but I think its working now Jan 10 20:02:50 I have the modified initfs installed, can I erase it? Jan 10 20:02:58 ok, will do Jan 10 20:03:46 not sure how to remove initfs, never tried, you could reflash old initfs I guess Jan 10 20:03:54 o ok Jan 10 20:05:05 I think I will just leave it there, I might use it in the future Jan 10 20:05:06 "P Jan 10 20:05:08 :P Jan 10 20:10:55 shouldnt cause a problem Jan 10 20:11:48 booting linux Jan 10 20:12:54 hey i'd need a bit of help Jan 10 20:13:19 How do I import certificates in the n810 ? What format should I save it in ? Jan 10 20:13:29 * Tak has no idea how the ITs handle certificates, as I haven't been able to get it to use one successfully yet Jan 10 20:13:55 isn't it just openssl? Jan 10 20:14:07 not that I've checked, that would just be my expectation Jan 10 20:21:23 hello Jan 10 20:21:35 hi Jan 10 20:21:36 I'm back with the Power of Slackware 12 Jan 10 20:22:11 ok KDE has not been updated, so I'm just going to use the one I downloaded a week ago Jan 10 20:22:21 it should cause any problems Jan 10 20:24:38 ok Jan 10 20:24:45 its the same tarball Jan 10 20:26:42 ok Jan 10 20:27:08 what is the maximum size of a vcf vcard file when importing contacts? Jan 10 20:27:49 You know about the Font problem. I have that problem currently. I hope that font issue will go away. :) Jan 10 20:27:58 "In a rare situation, if the installer can not work properly on your system you may have to do a manual installation" <-- is 64-bit linux really that rare? Jan 10 20:28:41 I am not positive there is a font problem, i wish I could determine what it was so I could fix it Jan 10 20:30:01 I've tried following the vauge advice on http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/users/31965 (ended up doing `sudo setarch i386 ./maemo-scratchbox-install_4.0.sh -s /scratchbox`, which didn't error out), but now when I try and do e.g. `/scratchbox/login`, I get this error: "ln: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" Jan 10 20:32:51 hmm, seems that that file exists, but it's a symlink that points at libGL.so.1.2, which doesn't exist (libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa does, though)... weird, it's not an issue from inside scratchbox, but it doesn't cause any errors outside of it, either Jan 10 20:35:33 hi there Jan 10 20:35:53 good evening Jan 10 20:36:20 I've got a little problem with my new bleutooth headset (Nokia BH-501) Jan 10 20:36:27 good evening Jan 10 20:36:57 my n800 finds the 2 services but it connects to the worse on Jan 10 20:38:03 now my headset is connected with my pc and I choosed AV-Sevice and the sound quali is fine Jan 10 20:38:37 what can I do to switch to the other "headset"-service?? Jan 10 20:40:05 have you an idea too fix it?? Jan 10 20:41:45 penguinbait, if I use the nokia to format my card, will it be ok? Jan 10 20:42:57 skibur: do you think it will be brocken after this Jan 10 20:43:02 ??? Jan 10 20:43:09 not sure Jan 10 20:43:31 do it with your pc then Jan 10 20:43:33 ... Jan 10 20:43:46 what'S the metter Jan 10 20:43:48 ?? Jan 10 20:54:30 I'm installing now Jan 10 20:56:13 on your N800 or where?? Jan 10 20:58:20 n800 Jan 10 20:58:34 I'm installing KDE on my N800 Jan 10 21:09:02 Tak: are you able to send me the ruby-sqlite deb too? Jan 10 21:10:28 penguinbait, I was wondering, Can you use the same method as you did with KDE to install any application once the N800 has reached the 256 Flash limit? Jan 10 21:12:26 Spakman_: it doesn't look like I have that one Jan 10 21:14:27 * SpComb gives up trying to install the maemo SDK on his 64-bit ubuntu Jan 10 21:16:35 which icon sizes do i need to provide (and where to install them) to get nice integration in the os2008 menu? Jan 10 21:17:54 actually, someone just pointed out to me that I had LD_PRELOAD set to /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa for whatever reason, and that was what was causing the error Jan 10 21:19:01 skibur still here Jan 10 21:19:43 yes Jan 10 21:19:48 you are still limited by your flash size for installs Jan 10 21:20:12 does that answer your question? Jan 10 21:20:21 no really Jan 10 21:20:26 not really Jan 10 21:20:40 maybe I am not understanding the question? Jan 10 21:20:46 KDE is being installed on my 4GB card Jan 10 21:20:58 mmc2 Jan 10 21:21:03 right Jan 10 21:21:16 it will also use about 20MB on flash Jan 10 21:21:31 I see Jan 10 21:22:07 the 20MB on flash is accessing KDE on my 4GB? Jan 10 21:22:36 sort of, the 20MB is really CUPS, it installs to /usr/share/doc Jan 10 21:22:52 mostly, and some supporting files to start KDE Jan 10 21:23:46 Once KDE has started, its reading off the 4GB Jan 10 21:24:10 well its reading KDE off the 4GB, and OS is still on flash Jan 10 21:24:18 understand Jan 10 21:24:26 yup Jan 10 21:25:48 no that being understand, Lets say you have 5MB left on Flash and I want to install an app called FOO that is 10MB, Can I use the method you did on KDE to install it? Jan 10 21:25:55 no/now Jan 10 21:26:32 20MB on flash accessing KDE 500MB+ Jan 10 21:26:49 5MB on flash accessing FOO 10MB+ Jan 10 21:27:48 KDE is installed into /usr/local, my deb creats a 1.3GB file local.img and formats it as ext2 and mounts it on /usr/local Jan 10 21:28:16 it also creats a 128MB swap.img and automatically sets up swap device Jan 10 21:28:45 done installing KDE Jan 10 21:28:48 booting up.... Jan 10 21:29:28 well, its up? Jan 10 21:29:37 looking good Jan 10 21:29:45 :( BLue Screen Jan 10 21:29:52 :P Jan 10 21:30:00 its the splash screen Jan 10 21:30:03 hehe, I was like what! Jan 10 21:30:07 lol Jan 10 21:30:13 nice work Jan 10 21:30:17 now for the test Jan 10 21:30:25 going back on maemo Jan 10 21:30:33 testing the microB fonts Jan 10 21:30:36 just logout :) Jan 10 21:31:43 FYI it took me 25 mins to complete Jan 10 21:31:52 <|tbb|> what does it mean just log out Jan 10 21:32:01 ok I see local.img usage Jan 10 21:32:04 logout of KDE, maemo will start back up Jan 10 21:32:14 <|tbb|> nice Jan 10 21:32:16 nice Jan 10 21:32:39 jinx you owe me a coke Jan 10 21:32:56 touch black never come back Jan 10 21:33:19 testing fonts.... Jan 10 21:33:25 MicroB Jan 10 21:34:20 nice, no more werid fonts!!! Jan 10 21:34:26 now for the ultimate test Jan 10 21:34:36 restarting N800.... Jan 10 21:36:02 retesting MicroB fonts... Jan 10 21:36:48 :( Jan 10 21:37:03 Font issue still reminds Jan 10 21:39:23 I think KDE is overwriting Maemo fonts Jan 10 21:40:11 "links between files" Might be the factor Jan 10 21:41:50 hmmm, I must be font blind Jan 10 21:42:03 I need two screenshots showing me the difference> Jan 10 21:42:23 I picky when it comes to detail Jan 10 21:42:29 o ok Jan 10 21:42:40 I will get my dad N800 Jan 10 21:42:50 to compare the differene Jan 10 21:42:54 difference Jan 10 21:42:56 o wait Jan 10 21:43:05 where should I post it? Jan 10 21:43:15 which thread? Jan 10 21:43:45 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14680&highlight=KDE Jan 10 21:43:54 there :) Jan 10 21:44:05 ok give me 10 minutes Jan 10 21:45:22 man, it's amazing the attitude of entitlement on itt re: the device program Jan 10 21:45:52 No kidding... Jan 10 21:46:14 I can't believe that people can act like they're being *wronged* because the free $300 they're being given isn't coming at precisely the moment they wished for Jan 10 21:46:44 elb: It surprised me too... of course, maybe it's because I paid full-price for mine. Jan 10 21:47:09 elb: But it makes me want to say "If you want it *that* bad, then pay full price!" Jan 10 21:47:26 I WANT MY FREAKING DEVICE Jan 10 21:47:27 BAH Jan 10 21:47:48 <|tbb|> jsmith: welcome to the club Jan 10 21:47:51 Well, I think if people had known that two months later they still wouldn't be able to order one, they might have paid full price. Jan 10 21:47:54 Personally, I'd be happy with AisleRiot... but I'm willing to wait and be patient ;-) Jan 10 21:48:06 But it's the constant stringing along that bugs 'em. Jan 10 21:48:16 I probably would have spent 500$ less on Christmas Jan 10 21:48:22 yes Jan 10 21:48:26 stinging Jan 10 21:48:27 lol Jan 10 21:48:30 stringing Jan 10 21:48:32 hey, how do I remove things from the "My Selection" menu ? Jan 10 21:49:04 like Rhapsody, I'm never going to use that Jan 10 21:49:15 me either what a joke Jan 10 21:49:22 I personally resigned not to have mine before I left for LCA back in December. Jan 10 21:49:24 http://misc.marttila.de/wiki/Maemo4_64bit_ubuntu_7.10 <-- managed to get maemo running on 64-bit ubuntu, simple in theory, painful due to weird things done by package maintainers Jan 10 21:49:36 And Nokia has not disappointed. Jan 10 21:49:51 <|tbb|> rm_you will the latest mplayer include your patch for a2dp Jan 10 21:50:16 |tbb|: don't know Jan 10 21:50:18 derf: I understand that people might have made different plans ... but there are people saying things like: "I wouldn't be surprised if many North American developers move to a different platform if this isn't resolved soon." Jan 10 21:50:21 it's up to serge... Jan 10 21:50:25 I mean, seriously Jan 10 21:50:28 kde4 out tomorrow ? Jan 10 21:50:33 penguinbait, gogogo :) Jan 10 21:50:36 I was waiting to get more test results before I told him to definately do it Jan 10 21:50:38 if they hadn't done a program at *all*, people wouldn't be making threats like that, so ... Jan 10 21:50:41 I said I would move to a diff country first :) Jan 10 21:51:16 haha, yeah, I saw that post Jan 10 21:51:17 elb: If they hadn't done a program at all, those people would have already moved to a different platform. Jan 10 21:51:27 derf: then nothing is lost Jan 10 21:51:30 ok Jan 10 21:51:38 give me 5 more Jan 10 21:51:39 lol Jan 10 21:51:42 sending pic Jan 10 21:51:59 I paid full price for 770 and 800, and I never really get to use my device because I am always f-ing it up with KDE Jan 10 21:52:03 Honestly, with all the manpower invested and ill-will obtained, I wonder if it would've been better to just give the things away for free. Jan 10 21:52:40 Tak: no worries about sqlite - thanks anyway Jan 10 21:53:32 But maybe that would've been just as much hassle to get the stores to actually ship them... I don't know. Jan 10 21:53:46 penguinbait, there are several issue with kde on n800 due to dialog box out of screen :( Jan 10 21:53:53 I'm interested to see how this GPS works, too Jan 10 21:54:03 all of the complaints i see sound like people who just don't know anything about GPS Jan 10 21:54:15 (like people complaining that cold start can take several minutes) Jan 10 21:54:52 like the kprinter Jan 10 21:55:04 Well, I don't know how much better SirfStar III really is compared to el cheapo TI chips. Jan 10 21:55:07 <|tbb|> the prob is youve get told sirf3 and then u dont Jan 10 21:55:24 today i have also print a website homepage on my net printer from n800/kde Jan 10 21:55:47 But I have an el cheapo bluetooth GPS unit, and the difference between that and, say, my friends' cell phones is dramatic. Jan 10 21:56:46 cell phones generally aren't really GPS Jan 10 21:56:59 <|tbb|> my chief at work got n95 and he is really disappointed about the gps Jan 10 21:57:14 cell towers are capable of providing location information, as well Jan 10 21:57:27 elb: Well, the only people I know who whip them out to show me are in Japan. Jan 10 21:57:44 and even phones which say they're "GPS" sometimes have some sort of hack that uses the cell towers to get a general fix, then some shady pseudo-GPS refinement Jan 10 21:57:51 what is the screen format on the n8x0 ? Jan 10 21:57:56 I don't understand the details, but apparently very few phones *actually* do GPS Jan 10 21:58:08 Well, whatever it is, it works a lot better. Jan 10 21:58:14 Especially in, say, Tokyo. Jan 10 21:58:32 sure -- even if you have *real* GPS, the initial fix from the towers will speed up your location acquisition Jan 10 21:59:14 so, buying the n810 in the USA: can it even be done? Jan 10 21:59:41 Yes, Solarion. Jan 10 21:59:50 penguinbait, you there? Jan 10 21:59:55 amazon claims to have it in stock Jan 10 22:00:01 Just not with any dev discounts, apparently. Jan 10 22:00:45 Anyway... I suspected something along those lines until I was recently in Connecticut with a friend who has a Tom-Tom (connected to some car-mounted GPS unit, I don't know which). Jan 10 22:01:32 ok, with dev discount, how about that. :) Jan 10 22:01:32 And I'm sitting there spending several minutes waiting for it to acquire, even though I'm 15 feet from where it last had a lock, and he just turns it on and is ready to go. Jan 10 22:01:37 hello? Jan 10 22:01:47 nokiausa won't let me put one in my shopping cart. :( Jan 10 22:02:12 (again, with my own el cheapo bluetooth unit... I don't have an N810) Jan 10 22:02:40 The acquisition time is 45 seconds on each locked satellite, to read its ephemeris orbit data; you need 4 sats to lock your position, some apps wait for 5. Jan 10 22:03:04 The 45sec is dictated by the GPS protocol, not the terra device. Jan 10 22:03:38 Sure... if it took 45 seconds, that'd be one thing. Jan 10 22:03:52 Long, but nothing more than a minor annoyance. Jan 10 22:04:01 derf: if you're waiting several minutes when you're only 15' from the last lock, that is indeed a poor implementation Jan 10 22:04:05 If they're not in view, you can't start the process. Sometimes a sat goes OUT of view before you get your 5. Jan 10 22:04:06 When it takes 2-5 minutes or more, that's something else. Jan 10 22:04:17 so, any hints on how to buy an n810 with dev code in the USA? The salesmonkey I talked to said it required choosing a carrier (becase the n810 requires a SIM card in order to operate) Jan 10 22:04:20 derf: probably a software problem ... perhaps it expects you to *tell* it what hte last position is Jan 10 22:04:21 elb: I suspect a large part of it comes down to really shitty firmware. Jan 10 22:04:44 Solarion: it doesn't even have a SIM slot.. Jan 10 22:04:46 it's wifi only. Jan 10 22:04:47 halley: 3 satellites will give you a 2-D fix, many old GPS units could only receive 3 signals Jan 10 22:04:52 (and tethers via bluetooth) Jan 10 22:05:05 fysa: yeah, well she'd have none of that Jan 10 22:05:17 halley: They're in view. I can see the signal strength bouncing up and down in maemo-mapper. Jan 10 22:05:21 print the Nokia spec sheet and bring it back in? ;) Jan 10 22:05:25 fysa: I can't buy it on nokiausa because I have to select a carrier. Jan 10 22:05:30 ah Jan 10 22:05:33 fysa: bring? It was phone. Jan 10 22:05:38 she even (supposedly) looked it up! Jan 10 22:06:07 elb, true, but uncommon now. Jan 10 22:06:09 I'd consider paying real money for a bluetooth GPS with very good firmware, even for use with the N810. Jan 10 22:06:23 But I can't find any reliable information on things like that. Jan 10 22:06:31 halley: I only mention this because my receiver will give me a fix with 3 signals, without altitude :-) Jan 10 22:06:47 The n810's gps antenna is near the snoring led, and it's not very sensitive. Jan 10 22:06:53 elb: Right, because most of the time you don't need altitude. Jan 10 22:06:53 derf: if it's having to start over from *scratch*, there's more information it has to gather -- and that will take several minutes Jan 10 22:07:04 again, that's part of the GPS protocol Jan 10 22:07:15 in Japan, cell phones do have GPS Jan 10 22:07:20 all of them. Jan 10 22:07:22 elb: I said, it's 15 feet from the last time I had it turned on. Jan 10 22:07:25 I can lock with my Garmin at 36000ft in about 48sec, but couldn't get 4 sats on the n810. Jan 10 22:07:28 it's part of the spec or something >_> Jan 10 22:07:38 I know at least some of them do Jan 10 22:07:42 derf: that doesn't mean it _knows_ that Jan 10 22:07:42 It shouldn't be having to start from scratch. Jan 10 22:07:44 derf, it doesn't care how far you were last locked. Jan 10 22:07:58 my GPS has a way to short circuit that search if you know approximately where you are Jan 10 22:08:16 I would like to see some accurate specs on the n810 builtin gps... my bluetooth one will lock in under 30 seconds from a cold start, and under 15 from not Jan 10 22:08:21 Mine has one button: power. Jan 10 22:08:21 you can find your position on a built-in map and say "I'm here", and it'll then lock in 45s or so, even if (for example) you're in Russia and your last lock was in Indiana ;-) Jan 10 22:08:43 If it stores ephemeris, and that ephemeris doesn't need updating, yes, it can be shortcut by not seeking sat22 when it's below the horizon. Jan 10 22:08:43 And the only visible output is one LED. Jan 10 22:08:57 halley: actually, it does -- if your last lock was close by, and not long ago, it'll fix itself quite a bit more quickly than if it has no idea where to begin Jan 10 22:09:16 is 22 WAAS ? Jan 10 22:09:17 I have *three* leds! :P lol Jan 10 22:09:35 Well, it is a tri-color LED. Jan 10 22:09:36 I picked a number at random. Sat22, Sat4, whatever. Jan 10 22:09:43 heh Jan 10 22:09:44 ahh, I see Jan 10 22:09:49 It may be three separate LEDs all in the same package. Jan 10 22:10:33 This is what I have: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16858702003 Jan 10 22:10:37 with my GPS, if I'm far from my previous location, getting the first lock takes a LONG time (say, 2-3 minutes), and the rest fall in almost immediately after that (presumably because it provided enough information) Jan 10 22:10:44 <|tbb|> derf thats what i think Jan 10 22:10:58 if I tell it where I am to within a few hundred miles, the lock is the same as if it hasn't been on for a day or so without moving Jan 10 22:11:10 Anyway... I want something small, bluetooth, and that doesn't suck. Jan 10 22:11:13 if it was on within the past 1-2 hours, it locks in about 5 seconds Jan 10 22:11:17 I'm willing to pay money for it. Jan 10 22:11:21 Why is this so hard? Jan 10 22:11:24 derf: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16858702003 is *great* Jan 10 22:11:25 elb, it likely decides from the first lock if the other sats' ephemeris is stale. Jan 10 22:11:35 halley: that's my assumption Jan 10 22:11:50 but it has to wait for the whole signal to come in Jan 10 22:11:58 and since that information is very low bitrate ... it takes a while :-) Jan 10 22:12:03 i got it to lock in under 45 seconds *on an airplane* Jan 10 22:12:05 particularly if the signal is less than spectacular Jan 10 22:12:12 which was probably bad, actually, since they say no wireless stuff >_> Jan 10 22:12:12 rm_you: then it was broken Jan 10 22:12:16 Yes, Garmins or Magellans are good about having ephemeris *predictions* too, but that's not likely in little embedded gps. Jan 10 22:12:20 rm_you: How big is that? It's hard to tell from the picture. Jan 10 22:12:26 err Jan 10 22:12:42 well, it might just be Really Good, but I find that unlikely Jan 10 22:12:49 Actually, airplanes are usually pretty easy if you can hold it close to the window. Jan 10 22:12:49 rm_you, GPS isn't a problem. Jan 10 22:12:55 most GPS units are incapable of fixing their position *accurately* above a few hundred MPH Jan 10 22:12:56 Good visbility. Jan 10 22:13:05 it said i was going 300mph Jan 10 22:13:10 and it showed me damn accurately Jan 10 22:13:14 was it a tiny plane? Jan 10 22:13:19 7747 Jan 10 22:13:21 *747 Jan 10 22:13:24 Oh, well my el cheapo unit has always worked pretty well on an airplane. Jan 10 22:13:28 most commercial jets fly quite a bit faster than 300mph Jan 10 22:13:34 we were landing Jan 10 22:13:39 My i-blue 737 locked in about 35 seconds doing ~500-ish in a 757. Jan 10 22:13:46 hey anyone a pidgin user here for the MSN IM client ? Jan 10 22:13:47 300mph must be within its capability, then Jan 10 22:13:51 .. Jan 10 22:13:52 It was maybe a hundred meters off when we landed. Jan 10 22:13:55 just shut it Jan 10 22:14:03 But once we slowed down under 100 mph it fixed it. Jan 10 22:14:16 On my last trip, I mean. Jan 10 22:14:19 derf: yeah, that's typical for most GPS units Jan 10 22:14:24 it'll get a fix, it just can't be very accurate Jan 10 22:14:27 because it's not fast enough Jan 10 22:14:40 I'm okay with being 100 meters off when going 500 mph. Jan 10 22:14:41 does anyone know if pidgin supports the nokia webcam ? Jan 10 22:14:48 it was like, a straight line into the runway :) which was pretty cool, actually Jan 10 22:14:50 nope Jan 10 22:14:51 many will say they can't *get* a fix, becaus etheir 95% zone is simply too large Jan 10 22:14:54 AMSN does Jan 10 22:14:55 it may have been a little bit off, i suppose Jan 10 22:14:57 and Gizmo.. Jan 10 22:14:57 hmm Jan 10 22:15:06 yeah but gizmo doesn't do msn Jan 10 22:15:10 then get AMSN Jan 10 22:15:14 hmm Jan 10 22:15:18 I don't think my GPS is capable of reporting a 95% fix of larger than 150' Jan 10 22:15:21 I've certainly never seen one Jan 10 22:15:32 http://kakaroto.homelinux.net/~kakaroto/n800/ Jan 10 22:15:45 http://www.amsn-project.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3659 Jan 10 22:15:53 http://kakaroto.homelinux.net/~kakaroto/n810/ for chinook Jan 10 22:15:55 rm_you: You didn't answer my question of how big it was. Jan 10 22:16:00 anyway, like I said, I'm interested to see the n810 GPS :-) Jan 10 22:16:09 hey hey, kakarota. thanks for the port. Jan 10 22:16:35 fysa, you're welcome :) Jan 10 22:16:40 derf: dont have a ruler handy, but... if i set it on the numpad on my keyboard, it takes up from the 8 to the corner of the enter key Jan 10 22:16:53 derf: a little less than, actually, but pretty close Jan 10 22:17:21 like, covering the 8,9,5,6,2,3,part of the 0, ./del, +, enter Jan 10 22:17:39 i wish i had a ruler :( Jan 10 22:17:58 pffft Jan 10 22:18:01 the dimensions are on the site Jan 10 22:18:26 2.75" by 1.86" by .75" Jan 10 22:19:06 Oh, hey, I dind't scroll past all the useless reviews. Jan 10 22:19:17 lol Jan 10 22:19:22 click on the specs tab Jan 10 22:19:40 I did, I _also_ went to the manufacturer's page, where it is $6 cheaper. Jan 10 22:19:47 actually, those reviews are what made me buy it... it was cheap, and the reviews said it worked with maemoMap Jan 10 22:19:57 heh Jan 10 22:19:58 rm_you: That's how I bought my last one. Jan 10 22:20:18 I , I think I f*cked up my n810 ... http://paste-it.net/5685/raw/ Jan 10 22:20:20 And they were accurate. It _was_ cheap, and it _did_ work... eventually. Usually. Jan 10 22:22:14 lol Jan 10 22:22:25 i love this thing. i always get a lock, and it's always quick and accurate Jan 10 22:22:41 and the battery lasts forever :) and i have a usb cable with me to charge it whenever Jan 10 22:23:11 i just kinda walk up to people's computers and plug it in, and they're like... what? :P Jan 10 22:24:46 n810 charges off USB? Jan 10 22:24:55 no Jan 10 22:25:03 or am I missing something? Jan 10 22:25:10 that bluetooth gps does Jan 10 22:25:16 ahh Jan 10 22:25:28 there are usb power adapters that are supposed to work for the n810 Jan 10 22:25:41 that have a USB cable with a nokia tip? ;) Jan 10 22:26:18 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QJ6TNC/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=IJK5RX3T9KGHR&colid=36EF9MSPC8HKE Jan 10 22:28:20 Yeah, I'm a bit annoyed at the recharge plug myself. Jan 10 22:28:33 I don't need yet another wall wart. Jan 10 22:29:36 bye Jan 10 22:29:41 yeah i really wish they had just done USB charging too :( Jan 10 22:30:16 i was tempted to do the solder thing that supposedly makes it work, but I'm not sure what effect that would have on usb devices that I want to plug in when i get host mode working :P Jan 10 22:33:30 so, i shall ask again today... anyone know how to get the GtkWidget "HildonControlbar" to function inside a GtkMenu? Jan 10 22:34:04 I just bought a $15 cable at Circuit City. Jan 10 22:34:10 alternatively, is that the wrong approach to duplicate the visual style of the builtin nokia Brightness app / Volume app? Jan 10 22:34:14 USB to Nokia 2mm power connector. Jan 10 22:34:36 Nokia sells one, too, but it's like $35. Jan 10 22:35:10 what is the circuitcity cable called? Jan 10 22:35:16 i will buy one right now if it's $15 lol Jan 10 22:35:26 Yeah, that's what I said. Jan 10 22:35:32 Hold on, looking it up. Jan 10 22:36:19 http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Kensington-USB-Power-Tips-for-Nokia-Mobile-Phones-24512US/sem/rpsm/oid/184694/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do Jan 10 22:36:45 lol it's for their phones? Jan 10 22:36:50 The tip is a little too long, so it doesn't fit snugly into the port, but it works. Jan 10 22:36:51 and it works great i assume? Jan 10 22:36:56 hrm Jan 10 22:37:15 I mean, I've never had it fall out or anything, it just sticks out a little. Jan 10 22:37:21 >_> Jan 10 22:37:53 now, the question is... do i care $20 worth about a snug fit... >_> Jan 10 22:38:14 I cared $20 worth that I could drive over and have it today. Jan 10 22:40:32 heh Jan 10 22:43:22 libgueefalfjvlnfuy3oq48g7vo4yr7b 3g0274p2 Jan 10 22:43:34 I have WLAN connections set to "connect automatically" and "search interval" to 5 minutes. Idle time is unlimited. Does anyone know why it would not try to use a connection I've defined even if it has been 5 minutes since I was disconnected and I'm within range? Jan 10 22:43:35 this gtk shit is driving me @(#$&ing nuts Jan 10 22:44:55 I think it will reconnect if I use the browser or rss feed app. otherwise it doesn't seem to do it automatically Jan 10 22:45:31 Where I work, the wireless is spotty so sometimes I get disconnected walking around and I'd like to stay connected as much as possible. Jan 10 22:49:08 maybe someone knows of a way to hack the n800's wireless equipment for better reception? Jan 10 22:49:57 can the flasher tool --hw-revision set the hardware and revision code? Jan 10 22:50:17 keesj: no Jan 10 22:50:40 I apparently changed my n810 into a n800 by performing a funky flash operation Jan 10 22:51:01 ... ouch Jan 10 22:52:18 It had become Found device RX-34, hardware revision 0805 Jan 10 22:54:16 and what is a cold flash? Jan 10 22:54:48 keesj: cold flashing is when you have the device on a debugging connector called a jig Jan 10 22:54:54 keesj: it connects up the serial port Jan 10 22:55:06 keesj: you feed the bootloader to the device over serial Jan 10 22:55:19 and that's implemented in hardware Jan 10 22:55:22 so you can recover a device with a mangled bootloader Jan 10 22:55:49 or work around a bug in the bootloader which can harm flashing Jan 10 22:58:21 rm_you: Well, I bought the thing. Should arrive before I leave the country for 3 weeks. Jan 10 22:58:30 :) Jan 10 22:58:31 So we'll see how it does. Jan 10 22:58:37 Newegg ships ridiculously fast Jan 10 22:58:42 I know. I love it. Jan 10 22:59:11 I think it is the flash that refuses to flash atm http://paste-it.net/5685 . I have a black screen but I see the lights are on and the device responsd Jan 10 22:59:15 yeah, it was a very painless setup, and it does work great... i hope your experience is similarly excellent :P Jan 10 23:00:09 If I don't, I'll send you a bill. Jan 10 23:01:40 lol Jan 10 23:02:30 just a note: if you have a motorola cell phone or any other wall plug usb charger, it probably won't work Jan 10 23:02:36 at least, the one for my phone didn't Jan 10 23:02:42 Huh, why not? Jan 10 23:02:44 but USB to computer seems 100% Jan 10 23:02:52 and the wall plug they ship works Jan 10 23:02:53 so Jan 10 23:03:01 different voltage? dunno Jan 10 23:03:13 it didn't seem to harm it though when i tried, fortunately Jan 10 23:03:44 it just wouldn't trigger the charge light Jan 10 23:03:46 Well, the car charger let's you plug a USB cable into _it_, instead of having its own cable attached. Jan 10 23:03:56 The car charger I have, I meant to say. Jan 10 23:04:06 hopefully anything that comes out of a USB mini-B is 5v Jan 10 23:04:08 ah, well, that will probably work, as it's more standard Jan 10 23:04:14 it might just not be enough amperage Jan 10 23:04:14 So I can use it with the aforementioned Kingston cable to also charge the N800. Jan 10 23:04:17 maybe Jan 10 23:04:31 It would be nice to have just one adapter and swap cables. Jan 10 23:04:32 *maybe @ johnx Jan 10 23:04:37 yeah Jan 10 23:04:42 that will prolly work fine Jan 10 23:05:00 every other USB charge plug i've tried besides the one for my cell phone works fine Jan 10 23:05:02 bugger Jan 10 23:05:06 We'll see... I mean, I can keep both adapters in the glove box. Jan 10 23:05:23 lets see... 5v 550mA Jan 10 23:05:28 for cell phone Jan 10 23:05:48 aaah...that would make sense Jan 10 23:05:58 5v 500mA for gps >_> Jan 10 23:06:02 maybe i just got unlucky Jan 10 23:06:06 I thought the USB standard mandated only 500 mA? Jan 10 23:06:06 sec, will try it again :P Jan 10 23:06:07 the max that something is *supposed* to be able to draw from a USB port is 500mA Jan 10 23:06:41 a lot of laptops only do <300mA and the Zaurus/N8x0/(other OTG device) only do 100-200mA Jan 10 23:06:42 pfft nevermind anything i said Jan 10 23:06:44 it works fine this time Jan 10 23:06:50 heh Jan 10 23:06:55 *happy* Jan 10 23:07:01 That was supposedly Nokia's reason for not having a USB charger built-in, was the amperage requirement. Jan 10 23:07:40 what is flite for ? Jan 10 23:07:46 it says flite works with maemo mapper Jan 10 23:08:05 Speech synthesis. Jan 10 23:08:18 It reads the route points as you approach them. Jan 10 23:08:27 so maemo mapper can do GPS routing , Jan 10 23:08:28 ? Jan 10 23:08:37 hrm, though cell phone won't charge from the GPS one Jan 10 23:08:43 so yeah, my cell phone is non-standard Jan 10 23:08:46 Well... roughly. Jan 10 23:08:52 hmm Jan 10 23:09:01 It doesn't try to fix the GPS position to a point on the track. Jan 10 23:09:01 which is annoying, because i bought a battery -> usb thingy for like $20 and it doesnt work with my cell phone Jan 10 23:09:14 but it does charge the GPS and hopefully will my n800 when i get that cable :) Jan 10 23:09:17 well I am going to take the 3 year wayfinder subscription Jan 10 23:09:26 And it gets the route from a web service... so you have to be connected to download it. Jan 10 23:09:50 can wayfinder get routes *NOT* connected!? Jan 10 23:09:56 that would be... sweet Jan 10 23:09:56 yeah, ok Jan 10 23:10:02 rm_you, sure Jan 10 23:10:02 rm_you: I have no idea. Jan 10 23:10:09 hrm Jan 10 23:10:12 rm_you, that's why you have to download such huge waypoints Jan 10 23:10:18 >_> Jan 10 23:10:29 btw Jan 10 23:10:33 You can pre-download routes with maemo mapper. Jan 10 23:10:35 it's actually very small compared to MaemoMapper's mapfiles Jan 10 23:10:46 vector-based. Jan 10 23:10:50 GeneralAntilles: Right... until you make a wrong turn, or want to go somewhere else. Jan 10 23:10:55 yeah Jan 10 23:10:56 :/ Jan 10 23:11:11 Sure, derf, but it's also free. ;) Jan 10 23:11:14 lol Jan 10 23:11:15 well I'm sorry, it was preloaded with canada and the whole us waypoints, and I live in Europe, so my memory was full :D Jan 10 23:11:19 GeneralAntilles: I'm not disparaging what John's done. Jan 10 23:11:20 hehe Jan 10 23:11:24 I'm just saying. Jan 10 23:11:29 yeah, for sure Jan 10 23:11:32 the app is amazinf Jan 10 23:11:34 *amazing Jan 10 23:11:41 It does do recalculation with a cellular connection. Jan 10 23:11:42 yeah, it is Jan 10 23:11:48 just wondered Jan 10 23:11:55 I have no idea how he found the time to write it. Jan 10 23:11:58 do you guys get low-def on google satellite view too ? Jan 10 23:12:10 I can't zoom in as much as I can on say, google maps or google earth Jan 10 23:12:14 I love maemo mapper for outdoor stuff. Jan 10 23:12:15 it's quite pixelated Jan 10 23:12:23 The sat view is amazing. Jan 10 23:12:31 Do you have pixel doubling on, CrashandDie? Jan 10 23:12:32 hrm... i wonder if it would be possible to reverse-engineer a way for MM to read the mapfiles from the other mapper Jan 10 23:12:37 cause the mapfiles are free... right? Jan 10 23:12:40 GeneralAntilles, not that I know off Jan 10 23:12:42 CrashandDie: Old maemo mapper versions only had 16 zoom levels. Jan 10 23:12:47 <|tbb|> how to force kill a app if kill PID or killall progname doesnt work? Jan 10 23:12:47 The new ones have 20. Jan 10 23:12:59 OK, let me rephrase: you have pixel doubling on. :P Jan 10 23:12:59 oh right, because I didn't update the OS :/ Jan 10 23:13:04 Which as near as I can tell, go as far as maps.google.com does. Jan 10 23:13:20 rm_you, builtin "Maps" uses vector maps IIRC Jan 10 23:13:28 yeah... Jan 10 23:13:47 That would be hilarious if maemo mapper could use the "Map" maps and routing info. Jan 10 23:13:47 cause then i could fit the entire USWest in the same space as the two cities i have downloaded currently >_> Jan 10 23:14:06 it wouldn't be hilarious, it would be awesome Jan 10 23:14:07 Yes... .jpg is not ideal for street maps. Jan 10 23:14:24 yeah :/ Jan 10 23:14:36 GeneralAntilles: so yeah, i'm stuck on that brightness app Jan 10 23:14:53 At least the new database format means it isn't wasting 32KB on 100-byte JPEGs of a solid color. Jan 10 23:14:53 0.2 is pretty much the best i am going to be able to do unless someone magically appears to tell me how to fit the damn controlbar into a menu Jan 10 23:15:46 GeneralAntilles: but at 0.2 it is very usable, i believe Jan 10 23:15:56 <|tbb|> anyone could help? Jan 10 23:16:00 How is the hell is there nobody around who knows how the Nokia applets work? Jan 10 23:16:10 GeneralAntilles: I know, right!? >_< wtf Jan 10 23:16:17 I hate fat32 so much... "What do you mean my 100MB of data requires 2GB of disk storage?" Jan 10 23:16:27 heh Jan 10 23:16:52 GeneralAntilles: well, did you grab 0.2? it has nice display features :P Jan 10 23:17:12 there's one thing I want to do for the n810 Jan 10 23:17:13 as in, it correctly displays the dynamically filling brightness icon :P Jan 10 23:17:26 and that's try to get as close to paquet injection as anyone can Jan 10 23:17:32 Yeah, I've got 0.2 Jan 10 23:17:33 trying** Jan 10 23:17:36 Crashed the desktop a couple times Jan 10 23:17:39 :( Jan 10 23:17:39 couldn't tell you why. Jan 10 23:17:42 Working fine now. Jan 10 23:17:47 hrm Jan 10 23:17:51 <|tbb|> go CrashandDie go for it ;) Jan 10 23:17:52 that's... odd? Jan 10 23:17:54 lol Jan 10 23:18:40 Yeah, dunno. Jan 10 23:18:44 |tbb|, heh :) Jan 10 23:19:54 <|tbb|> so how can i force kill a process if killall or kill not work Jan 10 23:20:17 killall -9 Jan 10 23:20:19 kill -9 Jan 10 23:20:53 <|tbb|> :) Jan 10 23:21:04 kill -9 -1 is my preffered one Jan 10 23:21:54 gah how do i remove a file named "-o" Jan 10 23:22:23 i tried rm \-o and rm '-o' and rm '\-o' Jan 10 23:22:27 >_> Jan 10 23:22:37 rm \"-o\" Jan 10 23:23:00 nope :/ Jan 10 23:23:03 rm -- -o Jan 10 23:23:11 THANK YOU Jan 10 23:23:12 lol Jan 10 23:23:26 rm lol Jan 10 23:23:29 hmm Jan 10 23:23:39 sorry bout that Jan 10 23:23:47 already typed rm, then added lol Jan 10 23:24:04 yeah don't remove the laughs here. :P Jan 10 23:24:12 wouldn't be a lot left :D Jan 10 23:24:19 okay, so what do you guys prefer for deving for maemo ? Jan 10 23:24:20 rm ./-o Jan 10 23:24:22 C/GTK ? Jan 10 23:24:34 what is the interface based on ? Jan 10 23:25:31 I don't dev but the two most popular things are: C/GTK and python/GTK Jan 10 23:26:33 C++ not popular ? Jan 10 23:26:43 hmmm...I don't know Jan 10 23:26:54 I'm 90% sure there are C++ bindings for hildon/gtk Jan 10 23:27:39 where can I find other applets ? For the home screen ? Jan 10 23:27:53 I like C/GTK Jan 10 23:27:57 C++ is bad for your health. Jan 10 23:28:06 <|tbb|> how can i increase the number of commands while using uparrow in xterm and how can i tell xterm if i run the same command twice it should handle it as one and not overwrite the one before Jan 10 23:28:12 some people use python Jan 10 23:28:14 CrashandDie, applets are all over the place...but not really organized anywhere Jan 10 23:28:23 that's too bad Jan 10 23:28:27 CrashandDie, OMWeather is popular and "simple launcher" Jan 10 23:31:02 does anyone have KDE running on a 770 or n800? Jan 10 23:31:34 Toma-, Penguinbait does Jan 10 23:31:51 that was awesome timing. Jan 10 23:32:14 penguinbaitâžœ would it be possible to have a peek at the kde launcher for 770 or n800? Jan 10 23:32:24 Toma-, yeah. That took a while to plan and synchronize. :D Jan 10 23:32:30 hehehe :P Jan 10 23:33:48 anyone got other tips for nice applets ? Jan 10 23:34:07 N810? Jan 10 23:34:15 <|tbb|> a run applet Jan 10 23:34:27 yup Jan 10 23:35:20 hi all Jan 10 23:35:46 hi Andy80 Jan 10 23:36:34 I'm trying Canola on n810 :) Jan 10 23:38:54 hmm Jan 10 23:38:57 does the OS2008 backup function back up GPE? Jan 10 23:38:57 didnt get a definite answer earlier Jan 10 23:38:59 Andy80, canola rocks ! Jan 10 23:39:21 hmm... Anyone know how I can get the station code from weather.com for a non-us city ? Jan 10 23:39:32 CrashandDie: yeah :) even if... the could have released it opensource :\ Jan 10 23:39:43 bleh Jan 10 23:39:56 who cares, it's pretty much one of the best apps around (from what I've seen) Jan 10 23:40:22 johnx, any idea ? Jan 10 23:40:49 what we relly miss know is a good application like GPE, but better... with a user interface like canola ;) Jan 10 23:40:53 hmm, good question...and I think I must have done it at some point too... Jan 10 23:41:48 CrashandDie, have you entered the city name into the search at the top of weather.com ? Jan 10 23:41:53 it came up no problem for me Jan 10 23:42:46 <|tbb|> is it possible to read a gzip and its content ascii characters without decompress it Jan 10 23:43:20 |tbb|, zcat Jan 10 23:43:38 or zless or zmore Jan 10 23:43:44 hmm, does zmore exist? Jan 10 23:44:18 johnx, perpignan france Jan 10 23:44:40 http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/local/FRXX0128?x=0&lswe=perpignan&lswa=WeatherLocalUndeclared&y=0 Jan 10 23:49:27 CrashandDie, FRXX0128 Jan 10 23:49:33 look at the URL harder :D Jan 10 23:51:01 johnx, I did Jan 10 23:51:05 johnx, doesn't work Jan 10 23:51:18 hmm...it "Works for me" (TM) Jan 10 23:51:30 hang on, lemme try again Jan 10 23:52:14 ok Jan 10 23:52:19 I can go hang myself Jan 10 23:52:26 must have mistyped or something, dunno Jan 10 23:52:28 sorry for that Jan 10 23:52:51 no problem :) Jan 10 23:55:27 the weather.com site is so obnoxious :/ Jan 10 23:55:44 no wonder everyone uses another program to parse their data Jan 10 23:55:54 yeah lol Jan 10 23:56:05 hmm Jan 10 23:56:18 simple launcher doesn't want to do invisible background :/ Jan 10 23:57:12 I don't think that works with 2008OS yet Jan 10 23:57:31 right Jan 10 23:57:40 funny thing is Jan 10 23:57:44 I got my n810 today Jan 10 23:57:47 and I'm like all happy Jan 10 23:58:01 so I go out, and do maybe 4 different stores, in order to get a charger Jan 10 23:58:10 and none of them had one Jan 10 23:58:21 and I'm like "OH COME ON" Jan 10 23:58:31 I go home, look at the adapter, read what's on it Jan 10 23:58:38 "110-240V 50-60Hz" Jan 10 23:59:04 oh well, that will do, just started cutting, soldering and galvanizing :) Tadaaa, working charger :D Jan 10 23:59:55 anyway, I'm pretty damn happy with this tablet Jan 10 23:59:56 don't they have cheap adapters that just adapt the shape of the plug? Jan 11 00:00:39 I dunno, I couldn't be bothered to look around too long Jan 11 00:00:39 I asked "do you have a nokia adapter, the new ones ? for this ?" "OOOH SHINY, WUT IS DAT ?" Jan 11 00:01:01 well it's the same adapter is comes with lots of Nokia phones Jan 11 00:01:07 yeah I know Jan 11 00:01:26 but it seems someone went on a frenzy and decided I shouldn't have one, and bought them all Jan 11 00:01:40 heh...that sucks Jan 11 00:02:08 well, like I said, I have my charger working, just, maybe doesn't look as good as what it did like about 8 hours ago :-° Jan 11 00:08:00 last ciggie then I'm off Jan 11 00:10:56 hey doc|home, long time no see Jan 11 00:11:24 hey CrashandDie :) Jan 11 00:11:34 have been here, just not saying much Jan 11 00:11:42 never saw you here Jan 11 00:11:48 just remember you from #gentoo a few years ago Jan 11 00:13:09 :) Jan 11 00:13:18 still using it? Jan 11 00:13:31 gentoo ? Jan 11 00:13:43 yeah Jan 11 00:13:48 Yeah, still installed somewhere, but not really active anymore Jan 11 00:13:53 * doc|home nods Jan 11 00:13:59 I guess I just got tired of breaking my system every few months Jan 11 00:14:05 heh Jan 11 00:14:19 * |tbb| think about what nokia should say: maemo connecting people ;) Jan 11 00:15:13 it's all fun, for a while, you learn tons, and the community back then was pretty awesome Jan 11 00:15:28 yeah, a lot has changed since :/ Jan 11 00:15:35 doc|home, but then a few things happened, which I didn't like, so eventually, I just became a regular idle guy on #gentoo Jan 11 00:15:42 yeah Jan 11 00:15:57 like ops being asses and banning other ops Jan 11 00:16:05 it always happens eventually :/ Jan 11 00:16:13 CrashandDie: when was this? Jan 11 00:16:22 doc|home, dunno, couple of years now prolly Jan 11 00:16:37 hmmm, I've only seen that twice since I've been there Jan 11 00:17:00 doc|home, remember reisio? or something along those lines, I never got blackace's side of the story, because he'd just ignore me Jan 11 00:17:23 oh yeah, reisio is long gone, and iirc he has even been banned Jan 11 00:17:35 he changed Jan 11 00:17:41 went a bit... off Jan 11 00:17:50 but also stuff like removing xmms from portage, telling people to start using something else, it's not the gentoo spirit Jan 11 00:18:27 it is when there are vulnerabilities and it's no longer supported upstream :/ Jan 11 00:18:42 oh come on, vulnerabilities in xmms ? tsss Jan 11 00:18:49 i used to hang out in #gentoo like... 2 years ago Jan 11 00:18:51 there's only so much devs can do, and audacious was even more capable Jan 11 00:18:53 it was really cool back then :P Jan 11 00:19:01 When I started out in Gentoo, it was about user choices, no one was supposed to be there to interfere with what we wanted... And when they started fiddling with user preferences, that's when I sortof pulled the plug I guess Jan 11 00:19:26 I switched from gentoo to ubuntu though... I was having apt-withdrawls Jan 11 00:19:48 yeah, ubuntu is less work now. Gentoo used to be easier to look after :/ Jan 11 00:19:53 and i got tired of recompiling half my system every week, because I was OCD about emerge -uvD world Jan 11 00:20:03 I gotta give credit where credit is due, Gentoo really made my day, and even more than that, it thought me things no other distribution ever could Jan 11 00:20:10 truth Jan 11 00:20:17 I learned a LOT from running gentoo for a year :P Jan 11 00:20:31 I tried arch for a bit Jan 11 00:20:39 but that was like jumping back to Gentoo in 2002 Jan 11 00:20:56 yeah, it's one of the only big distros that still encourage you to dig into it and hack Jan 11 00:21:39 so I just reinstalled Gentoo, helped the community by getting the drivers for my soundcard to work, and had fun with the ipw3945 drivers, and then, eventually, I installed Solaris Jan 11 00:22:10 after Solaris came Ubuntu, after Ubuntu came Debian, after Debian came... No wait, that's it Jan 11 00:22:26 ubuntu > debian Jan 11 00:22:29 * doc|home hhides Jan 11 00:22:31 lol Jan 11 00:22:39 doc|home, ubuntu ~= debian Jan 11 00:22:40 for a home server ? No way Jan 11 00:22:57 johnx: underneath perhaps, but it's much better packaged than debian Jan 11 00:23:06 <|tbb|> could zcat read gzip files while the file is allready in use? Jan 11 00:23:10 doc|home, hmm Jan 11 00:23:21 |tbb|, yes Jan 11 00:23:21 |tbb|, yes, as long as no flock is used Jan 11 00:23:48 ubuntu and debian just make different packaging decisions Jan 11 00:23:57 ubuntu is not right for servers because of that Jan 11 00:23:59 <|tbb|> i became an error like zcat: short read Jan 11 00:24:18 I guess ubuntu is a wee bit too bleeding edge Jan 11 00:24:27 |tbb|, is the file being modified while you're trying to use zcat? Jan 11 00:24:39 heh, i love both debian and ubuntu Jan 11 00:24:44 great for a desktop, not so great when you just want to maintain a server easily Jan 11 00:24:44 i just use them for different things Jan 11 00:24:46 <|tbb|> yes it is Jan 11 00:24:55 I still use debian for anything server related, and ubuntu for desktops Jan 11 00:25:09 ubuntu is just a much better desktop-oriented distro Jan 11 00:25:15 * czr moved to ubuntu on most x86/x86-64 archs ages ago (servers) Jan 11 00:25:15 * johnx agrees with rm_you Jan 11 00:25:21 ia-64 is slightly different Jan 11 00:25:24 yeah, ubuntu studio is awesome though Jan 11 00:25:49 |tbb|, what are you trying to accomplish in general? Jan 11 00:26:05 well, that's it for me Jan 11 00:26:20 I have this stupid class in a few hours Jan 11 00:26:39 man, why is it soooo hard for students to understand pointers in C ? Jan 11 00:26:54 bad teachers Jan 11 00:27:01 lol? :P Jan 11 00:27:05 heh Jan 11 00:27:10 *I* still barely understand pointers in C Jan 11 00:27:13 but i never had a class on it Jan 11 00:27:21 also, I do mostly Java and Python >_> Jan 11 00:27:46 though I guess at this point I pretty much get it... just not the advanced stuff you can do with them Jan 11 00:27:50 which there appears to be a LOT of Jan 11 00:28:11 well, a pointer is just a memory address, it points to a given position in the memory stack, after that, there's nothing more to understand Jan 11 00:28:22 a pointer is not _just_ a memory address Jan 11 00:28:30 well, it is Jan 11 00:28:35 ptr ++; Jan 11 00:28:47 ok Jan 11 00:28:50 point taken Jan 11 00:28:51 that's what I mean. Jan 11 00:29:24 lol Jan 11 00:29:31 see? *advanced* stuff Jan 11 00:29:49 mostly i just suck at allocating my own memory >_> Jan 11 00:29:54 malloc/calloc Jan 11 00:30:06 and knowing when i have to delete it Jan 11 00:30:09 that's not advanced... You increment the position of the pointer, so depending on the datatype pointed by the pointer, it will increment accordingly Jan 11 00:30:23 but yeah Jan 11 00:30:28 pointers are shitty, I'll admit Jan 11 00:30:39 c++/Java ftw, references ftw ! Jan 11 00:30:52 actually it depends on the type of the pointer, not the type of the data that it points to :-) Jan 11 00:30:58 * czr hides under a rock called "sematics" Jan 11 00:31:06 heh Jan 11 00:31:28 dunno, if i had ever taken a class that went over C stuff, then i would probably be ok with them Jan 11 00:31:30 i just... didn't Jan 11 00:31:36 * czr nods Jan 11 00:31:46 you could also just spend some proper time with The Book Jan 11 00:31:56 yet again, pointing to a set of data that doesn't match the datatype is pretty stupid if you don't know why you're doing it, and if you do, yeah, I'll admit, that starts to be quite advanced Jan 11 00:32:03 and hang around ##c asking silly questions.. Jan 11 00:32:14 or just googling and try to answer them Jan 11 00:32:28 which is probably where you learn most Jan 11 00:32:37 maybe with php Jan 11 00:32:47 dude Jan 11 00:32:49 or other copy&paste languages Jan 11 00:32:54 you frighten me Jan 11 00:33:16 * czr evillaughters Jan 11 00:34:52 CrashandLie, I've had plenty of discussions with other people about the pedagogy of teaching "advanced" C. Jan 11 00:35:07 heh...I remember my intro to java class when I would get null pointer exceptions. "I'm not using pointers Java! Stop lying!" Jan 11 00:35:23 so far there are two camps. one which tends to push the very abstract approach, the other one being the "bottom-up" thingy, where you'd talk about memory addresses and such Jan 11 00:35:36 I've yet to be convinced that either approach by themselves works the best.. Jan 11 00:35:57 johnx, you didn't realize already at that point that java is just fud? :-) Jan 11 00:36:13 or was it crud.. /me can't remember. Jan 11 00:36:23 I was young and naive (and the class was required) Jan 11 00:36:32 we've all been there.. Jan 11 00:36:40 the first two bits at least :-) Jan 11 00:36:56 I loved scheme though Jan 11 00:37:22 I don't have time to play with other languages these days, too sad.. Jan 11 00:37:45 they taught scheme as the "intro to computer science" class Jan 11 00:38:09 one of those "you have to be cruel to be kind" things Jan 11 00:38:19 yeah, I can see that :-) Jan 11 00:38:45 but I guess the language doesn't matter much, as long as you don't end up spending too much time in non-important issues (like you end up in C) Jan 11 00:39:00 right, and that's why scheme is great Jan 11 00:39:06 * czr nods Jan 11 00:39:17 you just *couldn't* pass that class without understand recursion and iteration Jan 11 00:39:18 I'd probably use python if I'd be in that situation Jan 11 00:40:17 or understanding why linked lists are slower than arrays Jan 11 00:40:35 whee Jan 11 00:40:42 training material went live at last Jan 11 00:41:11 yeah... my classes went: C++, Python, Scheme, ML, Java, Java, Java, Java Jan 11 00:41:29 At least they got scheme and ML in there Jan 11 00:41:38 it was an elective >_> Jan 11 00:41:38 I think my first official torture language was LOGO Jan 11 00:41:49 i think... Jan 11 00:41:52 "see how the nice turtle does a stack space exceeded dump on the screen" Jan 11 00:41:57 rofl Jan 11 00:41:58 OH YEAH Jan 11 00:42:02 my teacher didn't appreciate my creativity too much Jan 11 00:42:03 I DID LOGO!!! when i was like 10! lol Jan 11 00:42:11 * czr nods Jan 11 00:42:19 and QBASIC >_> Jan 11 00:42:25 man, I think they had me doing logo when I was like 8 O_o Jan 11 00:42:29 but i sucked too much back then to really know what i was doing Jan 11 00:42:42 heh. we didn't have that officially. I think there was some "localized" version of TP that we used Jan 11 00:42:48 yeah, it was more like a class in "copy the instructions" Jan 11 00:43:01 or at least I used, although I threw out the localization pretty quickly away. Jan 11 00:43:19 I guess they don't teach programming anymore at lower classes? Jan 11 00:43:22 given the futility? Jan 11 00:43:29 probably not much :/ Jan 11 00:43:37 my first class was in highschool Jan 11 00:43:42 which was alright Jan 11 00:44:15 mine was in 7th grade I think, although I was writing programs back then anyway, so it didn't matter all that much (and that's the main reason why my LOGO teacher didn't like my creativity) Jan 11 00:44:23 Did some light programming on Apple IIs in elementary, then Java in high school. Jan 11 00:45:20 ok, i've got a last qusetion, then I'm really off Jan 11 00:45:29 I taught myself TIBasic and programmed on a calculator then took C over the summer in high school Jan 11 00:45:45 is there an on-screen keyboard on the nokia n810 ? Jan 11 00:46:10 CrashandLie, yes Jan 11 00:46:25 know how I get it to show up ? Jan 11 00:46:50 no idea Jan 11 00:46:55 hmm Jan 11 00:46:55 ok Jan 11 00:46:59 doesn't matter Jan 11 00:47:01 lend me your N810 and I'll figure it out. :D Jan 11 00:47:05 heh Jan 11 00:47:07 na Jan 11 00:47:15 don't think so, I'm not bored of it Jan 11 00:47:16 (yet) Jan 11 00:47:19 cheers, I'm out Jan 11 00:47:20 peace Jan 11 00:47:35 lol yeah TIBasic :P Jan 11 00:48:04 26 variables ought to be enough for anyone! Jan 11 00:48:07 Did a lot of programming on my TI-83 Plus in middle school. Jan 11 00:48:21 Weird viral transmission of software Jan 11 00:48:26 GeneralAntilles, yup. Same calc I had in high school Jan 11 00:48:27 since you could only really share with link cables. Jan 11 00:48:54 * czr is part of the "TI?" generation Jan 11 00:48:55 emulate functions by calling other programs with "well known" variables set Jan 11 00:49:05 * czr hugs his old casio Jan 11 00:49:21 you can program one variable evaluation in it Jan 11 00:49:35 and heck, it has sin, cos and tan. what else do you really need. Jan 11 00:49:38 heh Jan 11 00:49:58 Well, i remember the day I realized you could store stuff in the matrices, and basically have unlimited variables Jan 11 00:50:01 the "link" port was really just a serial port IIRC. I wanted soo much to get it talking to a modem Jan 11 00:50:05 it was like... OMG 2d arrays! :P Jan 11 00:50:23 rm_you, I don't think I got that advanced (desparate?) Jan 11 00:50:27 lol Jan 11 00:50:36 i had a program that used like 60 variables >_> Jan 11 00:50:37 similar to the OMG I had with the casio. "Oh man, now I don't have to repeat the whole thing over and over again for 20 different values of X" Jan 11 00:50:42 it was an adventure game Jan 11 00:50:49 kinda like PIMP (if you remember that one) Jan 11 00:51:02 * czr pimps rm_you's TI Jan 11 00:51:05 lol Jan 11 00:51:10 bling bling Jan 11 00:51:34 yeah. and 56" built in TFT that you can watch when you remove the cover to replace the battery! Jan 11 00:51:44 anyone remember "liesure suit larry in the land of the lounge lizards" Jan 11 00:51:49 of course Jan 11 00:51:52 haha Jan 11 00:51:53 ken sent me Jan 11 00:52:26 I should probably do something useful seeing that I'm not going to sleep anyway Jan 11 00:52:46 lol Jan 11 00:52:56 czr: you know much GTK? Jan 11 00:53:05 I know some Jan 11 00:53:38 did i already ask you about making a HildonControlbar fit into a GtkMenu and function correctly? :P Jan 11 00:53:50 mm. no? Jan 11 00:53:54 or at least, something that LOOKS visually like the GtkMenu Jan 11 00:53:57 haven't tried that one Jan 11 00:54:06 isn't HildonControlbar just a regular widget though? Jan 11 00:54:11 yeah Jan 11 00:54:16 it's basically a GtkScale Jan 11 00:54:24 so what's the problem? Jan 11 00:54:35 create a GtkMenuItem and add the widget to it? Jan 11 00:54:37 but if i force it into a GtkMenuItem, and then put it into a GtkMenu Jan 11 00:54:49 if you try to click on it to like... move the slider, it selects it and closes the menu Jan 11 00:55:03 hmm Jan 11 00:55:05 >_> Jan 11 00:55:24 I guess that is what menus are supposed to do.. Jan 11 00:55:26 getting it to fit into the menu and actually display at all requires a GtkHBox, i think... Jan 11 00:55:29 right Jan 11 00:55:42 but like... you know how the backlight/volume applets work on the n8x0 Jan 11 00:55:56 yeah Jan 11 00:55:57 you click them, and theres the menu, but with a controlbar/volumebar at the top Jan 11 00:56:07 i need to duplicate that Jan 11 00:56:16 but I don't think they use a GtkMenu for it Jan 11 00:56:23 might be a regular dialog instead Jan 11 00:56:29 with fixed screen position. although I'm not sure.. Jan 11 00:57:00 have you asked on the mailing list? Jan 11 00:57:26 no Jan 11 00:57:30 what is the mailing list? Jan 11 00:57:36 I'm certainly not on it Jan 11 00:57:40 you might want to. just say that you want to duplicate what the existing thingy does Jan 11 00:57:44 maemo-developers Jan 11 00:57:57 i suppose that might work better than asking on IRC every day Jan 11 00:58:01 yes Jan 11 00:58:22 https://lists.maemo.org/mailman//listinfo/maemo-developers Jan 11 00:58:50 a lot of people read the list, but don't IRC so much Jan 11 00:59:00 or at all. so you might get better coverage for your question Jan 11 00:59:12 just be specific enough with it, maybe someone will have a nice solution for you.. Jan 11 01:05:14 is there like, a mailing list archive? Jan 11 01:05:21 that i can search through? Jan 11 01:05:52 yes Jan 11 01:06:04 the link I gave you should have an archive Jan 11 01:06:14 not sure about the search capability, I search locally Jan 11 01:06:57 gossamer-threads appears to have a searchable archive of it Jan 11 01:09:13 penguinbait, hi Jan 11 01:09:22 k Jan 11 01:09:53 penguinbait, I need a help with installing KDE on n800 :) Jan 11 01:11:08 penguinbait, I'm having a 1GB mmc... will tht enough to install KDE3.5.8? Jan 11 01:11:23 nope Jan 11 01:11:28 penguinbait, n800 on OS2008 Jan 11 01:11:29 1gb is not enough Jan 11 01:12:18 sad huh :) Jan 11 01:12:19 penguinbait, oh.. can I find another edition.. with lesser number of pkgs? Jan 11 01:12:25 penguinbait, yes :( Jan 11 01:12:36 nope Jan 11 01:12:56 need to test KDE while I buy a 2GB card :) Jan 11 01:12:58 even if you boot from mmc, you need like 1.3GB Jan 11 01:13:36 well I hv another removable card Jan 11 01:13:58 2gb? Jan 11 01:14:14 nop 120M :) Jan 11 01:14:32 yeah, thats not helping you :) Jan 11 01:14:41 is that the one that came with 810? Jan 11 01:14:45 is that the one that came with 800 Jan 11 01:14:48 I mean Jan 11 01:14:50 n800, yes Jan 11 01:15:23 well then I shd buy a 2gb card today :) Jan 11 01:15:54 penguinbait, just one thing.. whr shd we install kde mmc partition1 or 2? Jan 11 01:16:25 dont matter Jan 11 01:16:44 either Jan 11 01:17:43 mm cnt we remove OS2008 and install pure kde? :) Jan 11 01:18:05 I'm confused.. why are we partitioning mmc Jan 11 01:18:24 cnt we just install kde without doing partition? Jan 11 01:24:32 penguinbait, I'll buy a 2G and try :) thanks a lot Jan 11 01:24:44 np Jan 11 01:24:56 sorry I cant shrink it, I wish I could Jan 11 01:25:44 penguinbait, hehh it's fine.. thanks for making it :) Jan 11 01:32:09 penguinbait, one help please :) Jan 11 01:32:18 whats up Jan 11 01:32:35 penguinbait, I'm currently having a 1 GB mmc as internal memory Jan 11 01:32:47 ok Jan 11 01:32:56 mmc2 Jan 11 01:32:57 so is it ok to get another 1GB as an external mmc card Jan 11 01:33:09 no Jan 11 01:33:12 then will I be able to install KDE Jan 11 01:33:13 you could try to squeez it in a squashfs Jan 11 01:33:16 ah :( Jan 11 01:33:44 you should just go ahead and buy a 4g or and 8g card now >_> Jan 11 01:33:55 i have 2x 4g Jan 11 01:34:07 * jott just build a module because he also has a 1gb card and waits for his 4 gb card to arrive :) Jan 11 01:34:08 but i will need to go buy 8g soon Jan 11 01:34:09 there are 2 ways to install KDE, 1 requires a 1.5GB partition and the other requires 2gb Jan 11 01:34:44 I have 8gb in n800, but will have to buy microsdhc soon Jan 11 01:34:45 can we use 4GB on n800? Jan 11 01:34:50 I don;t think so Jan 11 01:34:56 yes Jan 11 01:35:02 I have 8gb Jan 11 01:35:08 sdhc Jan 11 01:35:08 mmc? Jan 11 01:35:11 SD Jan 11 01:35:16 ah Jan 11 01:35:20 Lahiru, you can use any SDHC card Jan 11 01:35:25 up to 16GB is tested Jan 11 01:35:49 great! I'll buy an SDHC then cool :) Jan 11 01:35:57 I dont think any 32's are out yet are they? Jan 11 01:36:16 I dunno Jan 11 01:36:21 there are 32GB CF cards, right? Jan 11 01:36:59 yeah but SD is behind Jan 11 01:37:08 penguinbait: how good can the kde build be compressed? just thinking if it's worth to try to put it in a squashfs to bring it <1gb Jan 11 01:37:32 jott, yes pls hehe Jan 11 01:37:37 food, bbl Jan 11 01:37:40 I would imagine alot Jan 11 01:37:46 so it could fit :) Jan 11 01:38:06 I include everything, which is alot of small text type files Jan 11 01:38:37 I never used squashfs, I no nothing about it Jan 11 01:39:07 it's a compressed (read only) filesystem Jan 11 01:40:46 penguinbait: have you actually considered backporting debian or ubuntu kde packages so we could have a real split build with separate packages? Jan 11 01:41:36 I am not a developer, people may not no how lucky they are to get what they got :) Jan 11 01:42:38 * jott considers to do so Jan 11 01:42:59 what where the biggest pitfalls you had when just compiling? Jan 11 01:43:33 jott, how much have you dug into packaging for 2008OS? Jan 11 01:43:45 it's missing *lots* of stuff when compared to a regular debian system Jan 11 01:44:02 from what developer tell me is its a linker problem Jan 11 01:44:27 but basically when compiling it cant find certain libs it already compiled Jan 11 01:44:38 sometimes I think it might be easier to make the hardware dependent and GUI stuff run on a more debian-like system then backporting debian packages onto 2008OS Jan 11 01:44:42 johnx: well just started to do some basic infrastructure building of missing debian bootstrap stuff Jan 11 01:44:59 great! Jan 11 01:45:10 I think we both had the same idea! and you already started. :D Jan 11 01:45:12 So I use intuition and point it where I think they are Jan 11 01:46:37 can somebody help me to revert my 1G card pls :) Jan 11 01:46:52 I partitioned it in hoping to install kde Jan 11 01:46:53 ;) Jan 11 01:47:02 johnx: actually i consider patching the sbuild system (there was once a patch for scratchbox support but this is obsolete) Jan 11 01:47:21 Lahiru, are trying to install from deb or boot from SD/mmc Jan 11 01:47:23 ? Jan 11 01:47:45 Lahiru, you want one big FAT16 partition back? Jan 11 01:48:02 i guess with a running sbuild one could build quite everything without too much of a hassle.. Jan 11 01:48:21 jott, especially since the debian armel port works so well Jan 11 01:48:25 johnx, yes Jan 11 01:48:51 penguinbait, was trying to follow the instructions on the forum :) Jan 11 01:49:06 some N800 packages will probably need to be repacked from files on the device Jan 11 01:49:08 which instructions? Jan 11 01:49:17 with debs, or not Jan 11 01:49:49 penguinbait, the link on your hacking site :) Jan 11 01:50:08 ok Jan 11 01:50:20 there is a new way Jan 11 01:50:25 easier Jan 11 01:50:32 no partitioning Jan 11 01:50:37 ahh please tell me Jan 11 01:50:41 1 sec Jan 11 01:50:45 a link Jan 11 01:50:48 penguinbait, Thanks Jan 11 01:51:06 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14680&highlight=KDE Jan 11 01:51:12 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14680 Jan 11 01:51:31 penguinbait, thanks Jan 11 01:51:31 johnx: yes.. well as i have a n810 now my motivation increased by an infinite number to deal with this ;) Jan 11 01:51:52 np Jan 11 01:52:18 I'm pretty motivated too Jan 11 01:52:52 there is so much software in debian ARMEL that it's shame to duplicate efforts Jan 11 01:53:28 johnx: whatever you can do to help bridge to debian ARMEL will be appreciated Jan 11 01:53:40 heh...don't look at me Jan 11 01:53:53 modest refuses to start up for me :\ Jan 11 01:53:59 I have no idea if I'll really get anywhere with this Jan 11 01:54:12 i guess one has to fight with some little scratchbox limitations.. Jan 11 01:54:54 i failed to build eperl for example as it tries to link against x86 perl libs :) Jan 11 01:55:15 jott, I was almost thinking about running a buildd in a qemu armel debian chroot Jan 11 01:55:51 I would sacrifice a lot of compiling power but gain a lot of "just works" Jan 11 01:55:58 johnx: yeah indeed.. Jan 11 01:56:31 johnx, can I get tht 1gb space back? Jan 11 01:56:49 johnx, I hv partitioned it :) Jan 11 01:57:03 well maybe it's worth a try to bootstrap chinook into a debian qemu chroot and fix the bootstrap that it matches debians needs... Jan 11 01:57:18 Lahiru, you want it to be just like it was when you got it, basically? Jan 11 01:58:04 johnx, yes Jan 11 01:59:12 What program did you use to partition it? Jan 11 01:59:58 sfdisk Jan 11 02:00:40 Lahiru: have you run mkfs.vfat on the device? or is the partition table still broken? Jan 11 02:03:44 I used # mkdosfs /dev/mmcblk0p1 Jan 11 02:03:52 and # mke2fs /dev/mmcblk0p2 Jan 11 02:04:30 jott, he partitioned it successfully and he wants it back to default one parition Jan 11 02:04:35 jeez, I thought fdisk was cryptic enough ... then I started reading the man for sfdisk Jan 11 02:05:21 Lahiru, do you run Linux or Windows on your desktop? Do you have a card reader for it? Jan 11 02:05:32 shall I sfdisk it and just press enter Jan 11 02:05:35 Linux Jan 11 02:06:39 I'll try using it Jan 11 02:08:21 Lahiru, yes, start and enter should do it Jan 11 02:08:28 I haven't used sfdisk before Jan 11 02:08:40 I always preferred cfdisk Jan 11 02:25:53 yes, cfdisk is a lifesaver Jan 11 02:33:20 penguinbait: the contents of KDE358.tar.bz2 is 322mb in a squashfs container. Jan 11 02:33:40 wow Jan 11 02:33:48 how would it run though Jan 11 02:34:05 is that just like a file image? Jan 11 02:34:14 you can just mount it Jan 11 02:34:31 fixed :) Jan 11 02:34:32 (given you have the squashfs.ko loaded) Jan 11 02:34:45 thats what I am doing with ext2 local.img on /media/mmc1 or 2 Jan 11 02:34:57 ugh, now pidgin won't even let me add an account Jan 11 02:34:57 wow, maybe I'll try out KDE then :D Jan 11 02:35:18 yeah .. so using squashfs instead of ext2 in that place would safe alot of memory (with some small performance impact) Jan 11 02:35:26 ok, so all I would have to replace is the first deb Jan 11 02:35:34 I could do that quickly Jan 11 02:36:07 I need some instructions for how to mount squashfs? Jan 11 02:36:09 jott, could u please tell me how can I use squashfs Jan 11 02:36:17 mount -t squashfs Jan 11 02:36:26 * Andy80 doesn't like kde :p (flaaaaameeee :D) Jan 11 02:36:40 great! after penguinbait I ll be able to install kde on my 1gb :) Jan 11 02:37:04 penguinbait: you can create a squashfs container quite easily (even without kernel support) - just (install and) run mksquashfs dir/ containerfile Jan 11 02:37:14 Andy80, I'm not a big KDE fan but "free and takes 322MB" is a nice price point :P Jan 11 02:37:29 well I need the squashfs.ko to mount it right Jan 11 02:37:41 I would put it all in a deb Jan 11 02:38:13 I have a small deb to create a ext2 fs, its just changing that one Jan 11 02:38:23 http://sse2.net/maemo/squashfs.ko Jan 11 02:38:34 unable to update pidgin-exprefs, update file is corrupted Jan 11 02:38:41 ooo Jan 11 02:38:41 thats for Linux Nokia-N810-50-2 2.6.21-omap1 .. Jan 11 02:38:46 johnx: the great thing is that user has the possibility to choose ;) Jan 11 02:38:57 but i guess it should work on all maemo 2.6.21-omap1 Jan 11 02:39:31 my 2008os is same kernel Jan 11 02:39:36 50-2 Jan 11 02:39:37 i'll try KDE too at ~400mb :P Jan 11 02:39:45 and os version Jan 11 02:39:55 i hate it on PC, but some of the apps could come in handy :) Jan 11 02:40:29 where to get the tools? Jan 11 02:40:52 http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/kernel_guide_for_maemo.html <- otherwise this guide gives a short intro on how to build kernel modules.. Jan 11 02:40:57 penguinbait: squashfs.sf.net Jan 11 02:41:04 I really wonder how much slower this will make things Jan 11 02:41:05 or distro provided.. Jan 11 02:41:17 Its not like speed can be spared on KDE Jan 11 02:41:18 ? Jan 11 02:41:23 penguinbait: a bit on load time..but no runtime impact Jan 11 02:41:45 konq already take 6-10 secs to load Jan 11 02:42:18 I guess I can at least see how it runs Jan 11 02:42:19 well.. we'll never know if we don' try ;) Jan 11 02:42:25 yup Jan 11 02:43:29 ok, I got to go finsh a post on ITT, it was freaking long, the off to squash, I'll let you know how it goes Jan 11 02:44:02 i wonder if you tried to prelink the kde stuff.. this should give an extra boost on load time **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 11 02:59:56 2008