**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 23 02:59:57 2008 Jan 23 03:42:20 here's a writeup of what I needed to do to make Debian work: http://internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian Jan 23 03:44:48 I still need to add a FAQ section Jan 23 03:45:21 and if someone offers me hosting I'll put up a .tar.gz of my rootfs, obviating the need to follow 99% of the instructions Jan 23 03:55:22 ice Jan 23 03:55:24 nice Jan 23 03:55:36 still adding changes to it Jan 23 03:56:04 Then I guess I'll link it on ITT and see how many people find a way to brick their tablets in the first hour Jan 23 04:01:48 johnx, how bit is the tar.gz Jan 23 04:01:51 er, big Jan 23 04:01:56 yeah Jan 23 04:01:58 big Jan 23 04:02:06 I don't have one yet Jan 23 04:02:21 I could probably keep it under 500MB, but that's all I'm promising Jan 23 04:02:29 heh Jan 23 04:04:24 there are definitely reasons Nokia knocked so much stuff off of traditional debian Jan 23 04:05:43 I installed debian on a 486 laptop with 7.5 megs or ram once Jan 23 04:05:58 I believe it Jan 23 04:06:01 dpkg took about 4 hours to run Jan 23 04:06:10 and actually, debian on this is really rather snappy Jan 23 04:06:48 when you get right down to it the IO and amount of RAM are just as important as CPU speed in terms of perceived reponsiveness Jan 23 04:07:35 yeah Jan 23 04:14:56 johnx: your wiki misses one important issue Jan 23 04:15:05 oil_, hmm? Jan 23 04:15:22 johnx: the section 0 - Why ;) Jan 23 04:15:31 section 0? Jan 23 04:15:53 ah Jan 23 04:15:54 section 0: Why do we want to run debian on N810 :) Jan 23 04:16:07 I guess I should put that up Jan 23 04:16:08 heh Jan 23 04:16:27 anyway. good reason can always be 'because we can' Jan 23 04:16:30 you're right, otherwise I'll be explaining it on ITT and #maemo all day :) Jan 23 04:16:49 so why did you install debian on your 810? Jan 23 04:17:17 the reason is because we can take all of Debian's 10,000 packages Jan 23 04:17:44 and once the rest of the hildon stuff gets into debian proper we can run our ITOS stuff as well Jan 23 04:19:36 plus, I prefer debian over the IT200xOS layout. I like having man pages, not having to worry so much about watchdog and reboot loops, etc, etc Jan 23 04:20:58 give me a terminal and a internet connection and I'm fine :P Jan 23 04:33:50 there, added a "Why?" section Jan 23 04:41:33 not to mention -- cron Jan 23 04:41:50 real, glorious cron that runs my life Jan 23 04:42:07 that would be a little disturbing actually Jan 23 04:42:31 echo 6 * * * fysa /usr/local/bin/eat Jan 23 04:42:34 >> .. Jan 23 04:42:44 well. think of it this way. Jan 23 04:43:16 now I can have my device work the way I want it to work, given the environment I'm in based on time of day. Jan 23 04:43:29 yes Jan 23 04:43:32 I agree with that Jan 23 04:43:59 I just try not to let my computer swallow too much of my mind Jan 23 04:44:43 you know.. Jan 23 04:45:02 if you carried it around the house with you, could you determine roughly what room you were in by packet timing? Jan 23 04:45:13 can you 'fingerprint' a room like that? Jan 23 04:45:29 it would work best with two (or more) sources Jan 23 04:45:42 because then.. Jan 23 04:45:55 screw cron for bedtime music/clock screensaver Jan 23 04:46:31 if it knows that I'm in the bedroom (I do usually read in bed a bit before sleeping), it can launch/sync an RSS reader Jan 23 04:46:45 or media player with whatever the latest is via mediaserv Jan 23 04:47:03 I think that would be mroe annoying than useful Jan 23 04:47:13 in the office, switch to pidgin/email Jan 23 04:47:31 I'm slightly demented, you see. Jan 23 04:47:34 but if it detected me walking towards the door and did one last music sync before I left for the day, that would be awesome Jan 23 04:47:37 I work from a home office. Jan 23 04:47:57 right. just simple 'entering/exiting' would be nice. Jan 23 04:48:06 trigger voice command Jan 23 04:48:08 in HTPC Jan 23 04:48:14 that asks if I want to hear my new voicemail/mail Jan 23 04:48:16 easy enough to do with wpa_supplicant roaming Jan 23 04:48:16 ;) Jan 23 04:48:27 or missed IMs Jan 23 04:48:27 to at least act different on different APs Jan 23 04:48:39 true Jan 23 04:48:58 wait. does KDE work? Jan 23 04:48:59 KDE4? Jan 23 04:49:12 I don't see why it wouldn't Jan 23 04:49:21 with enough swap Jan 23 04:49:34 what are you using build in? Jan 23 04:49:45 debian-armel with qemu or something? Jan 23 04:50:01 or cross? Jan 23 04:50:35 debian-armel in qemu Jan 23 04:50:44 though I haven't had to build anything since installing debian Jan 23 04:50:48 it's all been right there Jan 23 04:50:55 or I've repacked it from IT2008OS Jan 23 04:50:58 are you looking for a place to host it temporarily? Jan 23 04:51:10 johnx: good work. you are starting a new life for tablets :) Jan 23 04:51:18 oil_, thanks Jan 23 04:51:29 wait until it bricks yours or sets it on fire :) Jan 23 04:51:39 fysa, yeah, though actually for this large a file a bittorrent might be best Jan 23 04:52:07 hohoh, I'm old enought to wait for an while.. so that there is no more complaints of bricked devices ;) Jan 23 04:52:09 If you upload it to my server, I'll seed it like crazy. Jan 23 04:52:28 fysa, sounds like a deal. :D Jan 23 04:52:33 11 megabytes/sec Jan 23 04:52:44 I'll seed from here too Jan 23 04:53:00 I'll need to backup my current FS and then redo it so it's nice and clean and small Jan 23 04:53:16 and doesn't have quite as many of my ugly hacks left all over the place Jan 23 04:53:54 I lurk here 24/7, so just send me a message when you have it ready -- then make a .torrent of the same and stick it on thepiratebay or something. I can do this if you like. I'll then grab the .torrent off thepiratebay and seed with whatever you send to me. Jan 23 04:54:12 fysa, awesome Jan 23 04:54:14 thanks a lot! Jan 23 04:54:37 oil_, it actually *shouldn't* brick anything. It just gets mounted by initfs and then pivot_root'ed Jan 23 04:54:47 just happy to help. If I feel kinky, I might even stick it on a direct download for people in this channel for a day or two. Jan 23 04:54:51 take out the SD card and it goes away Jan 23 04:55:14 johnx: actually I do need to work with the existing os. Jan 23 04:55:34 we might have hildon soon.. Jan 23 04:55:40 oil_, that's fine because the only way to set it up is dual boot Jan 23 04:55:49 take out the SD card and it all goes away Jan 23 04:56:02 perfect. Jan 23 04:56:18 the worst situation I had was cleared by pulling the battery and rebooting Jan 23 04:56:20 Can it be in either slot? Jan 23 04:56:25 johnx: ah, ok. then I might give it a try. but a bit later anyway. Jan 23 04:56:35 (N800) Jan 23 04:56:35 sure, no rush :) Jan 23 04:56:41 fysa, yeah. Jan 23 04:57:01 any device supported by fanoush's initfs dualboot Jan 23 04:57:14 and you get a mouse pointer? Jan 23 04:57:21 yeah Jan 23 04:57:30 whether you want it or not :P Jan 23 04:57:36 this really sounds perfect for a bt mouse/keyboard mode. Jan 23 04:57:56 I can handle smaller widgets (more real estate) with a mouse. ;) Jan 23 04:58:47 anyone make a bluetooth ring mouse? Jan 23 04:59:09 heh...DIY project with a wiimote :D Jan 23 04:59:15 that would be awesome Jan 23 04:59:16 I tried.. Jan 23 04:59:23 but the drivers weren't ready. Jan 23 04:59:29 well. Jan 23 04:59:31 they're better now I think Jan 23 04:59:45 I mean -- the pywii package for maemo. Jan 23 04:59:49 but with debian, that's different. Jan 23 04:59:50 ah Jan 23 05:00:00 I use a wiimote to control the HTPC right now Jan 23 05:00:13 in Linux.. Jan 23 05:00:16 works reasonably well. Jan 23 05:00:42 very cool Jan 23 05:01:11 which kernel are you using? Jan 23 05:01:18 the stock Nokia one Jan 23 05:01:27 anything should work Jan 23 05:01:41 all the hard work is done before debian gets started Jan 23 05:01:43 is there any reasonable way or reason to get around that right now? Jan 23 05:02:00 the Nokia kernel? Jan 23 05:02:11 i.e. proprietary necessities? Jan 23 05:02:15 aaah Jan 23 05:02:44 we're probably locked into Nokia's stuff until someone smarter than me hacks around it Jan 23 05:03:18 http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/ring-mouse/ Jan 23 05:03:19 This. Jan 23 05:03:22 This is what I need. Jan 23 05:03:39 Not a touchscreen or stylist. Jan 23 05:03:56 that's pretty neat Jan 23 05:03:58 fucking brilliant. Jan 23 05:04:10 they use five microphones to pick up the noise of movement in a specific direction. Jan 23 05:04:32 well, the volume. Jan 23 05:05:14 kinetic scrolling ;) Jan 23 05:05:47 I have to admit that is a pretty original idea Jan 23 05:05:56 incredibly simple. Jan 23 05:07:34 Maybe I'll hold off on starting a thread on ITT until I have a tarball for them... Jan 23 05:08:09 think you will have it before the weekend? Jan 23 05:08:33 (no rush) I'll make sure to keep an eye out. Jan 23 05:08:42 I should have it in a couples hours Jan 23 05:09:39 Do you have a local FTP/HTTP server available, or do you need me to put one together for the transfer? Jan 23 05:10:22 I can put it up on my personal webpage, Jan 23 05:10:54 I only have 5GB a month on that site, but it's fine for a one off thing Jan 23 05:11:11 well, if you're using your upstream anyway, may as well send it here Jan 23 05:11:15 no problem -- one sec Jan 23 05:11:19 sure Jan 23 05:14:12 alright, I'll backup my current debian setup and roll a fresh install Jan 23 05:16:30 hi Jan 23 05:16:44 hello Jan 23 05:18:34 Anyone know how long is the n800 tablet going to have patches and OS upgrades? I've wanted to get one but heard that the n770s support was stopped after 1.5 years so was worryed what's going to happen with the n800. Jan 23 05:20:16 The N800/N810 should be supported until at least the next software release "Diablo" Jan 23 05:20:38 rather they will have a supported version of the next major release Jan 23 05:21:46 Nokia says they'll provide details for the major release after next closer to when it happens Jan 23 05:22:36 So roughly how long do you think there will be support? After that I hope a hackers version will come out. Jan 23 05:22:46 When is 'diablo' coming out? Jan 23 05:23:05 I have no idea about anything else Jan 23 05:23:13 .and how official is this info? :) Jan 23 05:23:13 here's where I found that info: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1184675758.html Jan 23 05:23:19 thnks Jan 23 05:23:26 the n800 is a lot more similar to the n810 then the 770 is to the n800 Jan 23 05:23:56 so keeping the n800 up to date with the n810 is pretty easy Jan 23 05:24:03 yes. there's only a difference of 10, compared to 30. Jan 23 05:24:08 lol Jan 23 05:24:15 810 is way better though Jan 23 05:24:26 johnx I just wouldn't want to buy the n800 and get only another 1 or so of support ;P Jan 23 05:24:38 niiterv, I know the feeling Jan 23 05:24:53 1 year* Jan 23 05:24:55 I'd imagine the N800 will be supported for as long as N810 Jan 23 05:24:59 ok Jan 23 05:25:06 thats hope =) Jan 23 05:25:21 they are basically the same machine Jan 23 05:25:23 that's also why I'm working on Debian for the N800 :D Jan 23 05:25:39 however, when the next major release is out, they _might_ drop N800. although I don't see any good reasons of doing so, but I'm not a Nokii. Jan 23 05:26:06 i am writing from n810 in kde right now Jan 23 05:26:09 and the n810 just came out so I guess 1.5-2 years of support Jan 23 05:26:20 its nice ;) Jan 23 05:27:40 I'm thinking about getting the n800 since there is a $170 difference. Jan 23 05:28:20 niiterv, yeah, the N800 is an incredible deal right now Jan 23 05:29:07 I hear that there is a hackers version OS for the n770 so I guess that in 2 years or so when the support ends there should be a hackers version for the n800 Jan 23 05:29:17 what are the prices currently for N800 and N810 ? Jan 23 05:29:38 oil_ n800 =$228 n810$400+ Jan 23 05:29:45 something like $200-$250 for the N800, and $380-$480 Jan 23 05:29:48 niiterv: thanks. Jan 23 05:29:51 for the N810 Jan 23 05:30:25 hopefully by the time the N8x0 stuff is End-of-Lifed by Nokia the community will be in a good situation to continue support Jan 23 05:30:36 I personally started to _use_ tablet when I got n810.. the keyboard does the trick for me. Jan 23 05:30:47 johnx: Where'd you see an n800 for $200? Lowest I've seen is on amazon for $228 Jan 23 05:31:04 hmm...it was $200 for a while on buy.com I think Jan 23 05:31:10 but that was a while ago Jan 23 05:31:13 Lemmo look Jan 23 05:31:24 for me it was great to use for example irc and gtalk chat while on the airport.. the damn 2 hours of waiting goes much faster now. Jan 23 05:31:24 I bought mine in April so I haven't been keeping track much Jan 23 05:32:05 yeah, one day I'll get an N810 Jan 23 05:32:14 johnx n800 @ buy.com is $228 Jan 23 05:32:23 ah, so the price is back up Jan 23 05:33:02 So you think it's still worth getting the n800 in the condition it's in? Jan 23 05:33:33 It all depends on how much you care about the keyboard Jan 23 05:33:33 I got my n800 3 weeks ago Jan 23 05:33:43 Tama^2 like it? Jan 23 05:33:51 (I use a BT keyboard with it) Jan 23 05:34:36 I use ssh a lot so my upgrade from my 770 is going to be a n810 Jan 23 05:34:44 once I went to see the bt keyboards, but those things were damn expensive.. but naturally if you already have one. then it's a good deal. Jan 23 05:34:49 yes, I think > storage space and lower price is preferable to keyboard and transriflective screen for me Jan 23 05:35:01 ssh + screen + mutt + irssi FTW Jan 23 05:35:29 proteous, I have a zaurus for that anyways :P Jan 23 05:35:37 :P Jan 23 05:35:50 Is it possible to still type with the virtual keyboard on n800 with the pen? I mean I'd like to chat on the n800 without the need for a bt keyboard. Jan 23 05:36:00 the screen on that is not as nice Jan 23 05:36:09 niiterv, thumb typing on the screen is not that bad Jan 23 05:36:09 yeah, you can, it's just a bit slow Jan 23 05:36:10 also using maemo-mapper with n810 was suprising good thing. it was able to get me back home in this big city I do not really know very well. Jan 23 05:36:16 chatting is possible if you get good at it Jan 23 05:36:25 ok Jan 23 05:36:26 I've gotten pretty fast with the stylus but it's still sorta annoying Jan 23 05:36:51 the one thing the onscreen keyboard will not be fun for is the terminal Jan 23 05:37:33 I wish it was more like the iphone keyboard, doesn't obscure the whole screen Jan 23 05:37:49 I totally *love* the n810 but dont have the money for it so I hope the n800 will work. Jan 23 05:38:32 niiterv, it's a great device and tons and tons of cheap storage is definitely an advantage Jan 23 05:39:26 Okey what about the battery life for the n800? I mean how long will it last under irc chat etc. Jan 23 05:40:05 hmm Jan 23 05:40:22 I hear 3-6 hours Jan 23 05:40:29 that seems reasonable Jan 23 05:40:36 niiterv: irc chat on the n800 is kinda painful (with the on-screen keyboard).. with a bt keyboard is quite doable.... I'd say 4-5h of battery life Jan 23 05:40:41 also, I didn't really realize you meant IRC...I thought you were talking about maybe IM with one person Jan 23 05:40:56 IRC moves too fast Jan 23 05:41:17 you'd have your full screen keyboard up desperately pecking out letters while messages scroll past without you seeing them Jan 23 05:41:38 I mean if I can't do irc and stuff I dont see the point of getting one. Jan 23 05:42:07 johnx: with one of those nice foldable bluetooth keyboards, it should be doable Jan 23 05:42:17 I get 5/6 hours of irc out of my n800 Jan 23 05:43:06 honestly even the slide-out keyboard would be very limiting for irc-style chat Jan 23 05:43:16 (IMO of course) Jan 23 05:43:35 Tama^2: actually it works quite well Jan 23 05:43:36 I just loved the idea of curling up with the n800 and chat on irc.. but don't like the idea of needing another keyboard Jan 23 05:43:48 on the n810 Jan 23 05:45:30 niiterv, the zaurus C1000 keyboard would work just fine Jan 23 05:45:43 I've even chatted on my old Zaurus 5500 Jan 23 05:46:04 Can an n800 be used as a mp3 player? I mean like could I stick it into my back pocket and listen? Jan 23 05:46:15 niiterv, definitely Jan 23 05:46:20 ok Jan 23 05:46:21 2 SD card slots as well Jan 23 05:46:35 it plays movies fine if you transcode them Jan 23 05:46:42 Thats some of the reasons why I want to get one over a ipod video Jan 23 05:47:54 not the best group of people to ask for an objective opinion on that Jan 23 05:48:01 heh Jan 23 05:48:30 niiterv, if you have a chance to see one in a brick-and-mortar store and get your hands around it I think you'll quickly get a feel for what's possible in terms of typing Jan 23 05:50:26 Thanks for the help. Gotta hit the bunker. Might be back sometime =) Jan 23 05:50:39 alright Jan 23 05:50:41 'later Jan 23 06:08:13 * johnx goes afk "dinner time!" Jan 23 06:37:17 podsync was updated today, but is missing libhildonwidgets.so.0 when started. Known issue ? Jan 23 06:40:07 dang, nm. Looks like I downloaded the os2007 version. Jan 23 06:43:31 hi luria Jan 23 06:49:40 is the sketch program open source on maemo? Jan 23 06:55:15 hey pupnik Jan 23 06:55:26 sorry, busy enjoying my eee Jan 23 07:07:49 hello; (apologies; I realise this is the wrong channel but I can't find any other channels that seem to be relevant): is there *anything* like pidgin for Series 40 phones? Jan 23 07:08:05 just gtalk will do too Jan 23 07:08:38 sitaram: There's a MIDP 2.0 client called MGTalk .. Jan 23 07:08:50 I don't know if it will work with S40 devices though. Jan 23 07:09:31 but it's a start -- I will check, thank you !!! Jan 23 07:09:34 Be careful - the main page for the app is not NSFW. Jan 23 07:09:41 Rather it IS NSFW. Jan 23 07:09:48 The domain seems to have been hijacked. Jan 23 07:11:03 This page is your best bet : http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=165489 Jan 23 07:14:23 wow -- I was just going to allow FF to redirect when I saw this and desisted! Thanks again Jan 23 07:15:56 but you're right, from the description on getjar it doesn't seem like it'll work on a 3110. I will test it over lunch and report back right here, unless I'm booted out for being "off topic" :-) Jan 23 07:31:10 why am I transfering a large file slowly from my server over it's DSL connection to my main computer over it's cable connection when the server is sitting in my closet... Jan 23 07:31:17 flash drive FTW Jan 23 07:31:30 sneakernet Jan 23 07:31:36 or in this case, socknet Jan 23 07:32:34 o O why they're not networked directly Jan 23 07:33:04 because I don't want the server on my network Jan 23 07:33:20 splitbit: I'm getting a series of network connection errors but the app loaded and ran fine, so I'll look at this later... thanks again for all the help on something off-topic! Jan 23 07:33:44 for security reasons Jan 23 07:41:51 http://www.pocketables.net/2008/01/nokia-n800-os20.html Jan 23 07:45:28 I wonder why anyone would have thought that microb *would* be faster than opera..?-) Jan 23 08:00:12 zuh: its not faster, nobody said it was faster Jan 23 08:00:19 (and if they did they lie) Jan 23 08:04:29 The above pocketables article seems to start with that assumption... Jan 23 08:09:08 zuh: well, its true that its sllower but IMO its better. I mean, for the pages I visit the OS2008 browser renders better than the old Opera browser Jan 23 08:19:37 opera/mozilla (on n800/n810) both support ajax/javascript? Jan 23 08:20:14 to some point, yes Jan 23 08:34:32 hi there Jan 23 08:34:43 hi Jan 23 08:35:56 more developers Jan 23 08:36:17 I tried table-encode to convert my movies for reading them on my n810.. conversion works fine and playing is great! I'm wondering how I could add some volume gain, this sounds not possible w/ -m "-lavopts ...", it's more a mencoder topic, but I wonder if anybody has experience here about that? Jan 23 08:36:25 i just browsed through 'pocketpc' magazine at the gas station Jan 23 08:36:32 good mornin' Jan 23 08:36:36 made me absolutely sick to see how many devices run windows mobile Jan 23 08:36:38 hi michele Jan 23 08:37:12 one of the best beatles songs uses your nick Jan 23 08:37:35 that's michelle, and she's a girl ;) Jan 23 08:37:43 heh Jan 23 08:37:51 tiny differences make all the difference in the world :) Jan 23 08:38:31 i only knew michel and michael as male versions Jan 23 08:39:38 http://www.google.com/search?q=michele Jan 23 08:39:46 hi michele Jan 23 08:39:57 interesting Jan 23 08:40:13 I have a 770 and im thinking about getting an 810, but with the divits in my 770's metal shield im concerned about the always exposed screen Jan 23 08:40:14 pupnik: in italian it's a male name Jan 23 08:40:33 pupnik: but don't worry, you are not the first to make this mistake. and won't be the last. Jan 23 08:40:46 am I wrong or michele can be male in .it? Jan 23 08:40:46 anyway.. Jan 23 08:41:01 welcome to michelle! Jan 23 08:41:06 michele *is* male in it, and I am in .it :) Jan 23 08:41:19 (from the song) Jan 23 08:41:56 right Jan 23 08:42:00 sidusnare: valid concern Jan 23 08:42:41 any solutions? is there a decent case? or a bolt / stick on face flap? Jan 23 08:42:52 sidusnare: my 770 has been dropped from bycicles, running and falling on stone cobbles etc Jan 23 08:42:59 the n810 will not be the same Jan 23 08:43:29 i put the n810 in bubble wrap in a soft case now Jan 23 08:43:42 michele, you live in a TLD? Jan 23 08:43:52 * cizarro hides & runs Jan 23 08:44:19 michele i apologize for my ignorance of italian names Jan 23 08:44:49 its just wrong that an uninhabited 4000 square mile island has its own tld :-p and 120 registrants in it ! .gs Jan 23 08:45:41 anyway, back on topic, any good cases? or other protectors? Jan 23 08:45:48 http://pupnik.de/Gemrb_Screen1_1280.jpg look at the beauty... Jan 23 08:46:05 better running THEN hidding Jan 23 08:46:07 pupnik: stop showing that Jan 23 08:46:11 there's also miguel in spanish Jan 23 08:46:18 oh holy shit Jan 23 08:46:28 pupnik: it makes me want it more Jan 23 08:46:40 i can tar it up hugolp Jan 23 08:46:47 if you want to help with gemrb Jan 23 08:47:00 Talking about nice TLDs: I still love .sh and got ben.sh right away ;) Jan 23 08:47:01 bugreports, etc - anything you can do Jan 23 08:47:01 pupnik: would love to but I cant at the moment Jan 23 08:47:04 ok Jan 23 08:47:15 pupnik: I can help with bug reports sure Jan 23 08:47:39 but good bug reports require investment also Jan 23 08:47:48 i can't even submit any yet Jan 23 08:48:07 i have to build it on pc first, and that breaks on my system Jan 23 08:48:24 funny the nokia is more 'compatible' with it than my regular linux distro Jan 23 08:48:35 XD Jan 23 08:48:41 no worries pupnik Jan 23 08:48:47 I havent even played, but it looks like RPG? Jan 23 08:49:00 sometimes it helps having people think I'm a girl ;) Jan 23 08:49:09 yes based on the first rpg in the world - dnd Jan 23 08:49:22 it is not ready for users ... needs helpers Jan 23 08:49:38 michele: specially in a geek enviroment Jan 23 08:50:13 pupnik: Nice stuff Jan 23 08:52:21 the guys who are working on it have been going for like 5 year Jan 23 08:52:29 grrr... why is it so hard to find a stick of ram Jan 23 08:52:32 they are 8heroes8 Jan 23 08:54:09 ah - bingo! Jan 23 08:54:41 pupnik: Project site somewhere? Jan 23 08:54:54 crap, out of stock Jan 23 08:56:53 ...and newegg seems to be the only ones who carry it Jan 23 08:57:10 sorry Jan 23 08:58:09 what kind of weird RAM are you looking for? Jan 23 08:59:03 none Jan 23 08:59:31 super volitile ram Jan 23 08:59:40 it actual explodes when you apply power Jan 23 08:59:44 Blafasel: only if you want to help with the project Jan 23 08:59:53 77/last jaffa Jan 23 08:59:54 xx Jan 23 08:59:58 Morning, all Jan 23 09:06:53 hello Jan 23 09:07:30 How can i install Libraries in N810 online? Jan 23 09:07:36 any body there? Jan 23 09:08:04 yes Jan 23 09:08:29 can help? Jan 23 09:08:31 when you install an application it should install the required libraries Jan 23 09:09:03 but i need to instll my own application Jan 23 09:09:10 ram for my eee Jan 23 09:09:17 200 pin ddr2 Jan 23 09:09:21 that has some dependency! Jan 23 09:09:37 pupnik. Jan 23 09:09:39 sarower: then use gornmeyer.com/it Jan 23 09:09:46 search for library Jan 23 09:09:50 install repository Jan 23 09:09:55 then apt-get install library Jan 23 09:10:00 not odd, but finding a 2gb 4-4-4-12 is a pain Jan 23 09:10:20 how can i install the Xterm? Jan 23 09:10:25 pupnik? Jan 23 09:10:34 oops, i answered you johnx, didnt realize you left... heh Jan 23 09:10:38 pupnik: xterm is already installed. Jan 23 09:10:48 eh, sarower. Jan 23 09:10:56 yah Jan 23 09:11:12 is xterm is already installed in n810? Jan 23 09:11:19 veggen? Jan 23 09:11:20 yes Jan 23 09:11:20 luria, i don't think eee is relevant to this channel Jan 23 09:11:20 yes. Jan 23 09:11:29 ah, sorry, I had weird mouse IRQ issues Jan 23 09:11:31 oh where it is? Jan 23 09:11:39 veggen? Jan 23 09:11:41 it feels so retro to say that. so very 1998 Jan 23 09:11:47 pupnik, not directly, no Jan 23 09:12:19 shall i regale you with my thinkpad tribulations/ Jan 23 09:12:19 and actually I'm afk again Jan 23 09:12:21 * johnx lurks Jan 23 09:12:36 johnx, are you trying to use com1 and com3? Jan 23 09:13:12 how about my comtrol rocketport stories Jan 23 09:13:18 sure Jan 23 09:13:35 id like to hear about thinkpad tribulations Jan 23 09:13:53 the a30 is not reliable Jan 23 09:14:00 how so? Jan 23 09:14:12 btw, anyone seen usbserial module for the n810? Jan 23 09:14:17 eh, for os2008. Jan 23 09:14:20 too high instance of graphics problems Jan 23 09:14:23 ....does it exist? Jan 23 09:14:32 (or do I need to compile?) Jan 23 09:14:33 thinkpads are my second favorite line of laptops Jan 23 09:15:12 I'm considering testing the n810 as serial console-appliance, one of these days ;) Jan 23 09:15:31 bbl Jan 23 09:16:02 that would be a nice server rescue thing Jan 23 09:21:01 Luria: http://crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=Eee%20PC%20701 Jan 23 09:21:22 veggen: do you know how do i install library in N810.. Jan 23 09:21:29 dpkg -i Jan 23 09:21:34 suppose livhildon..! Jan 23 09:21:43 from internet? Jan 23 09:21:57 eh. please tell me what you want? Jan 23 09:22:19 Do you have a precompiled package? does it exist in a repository? Jan 23 09:22:19 i have a device N810 Jan 23 09:22:43 Now i need to install the libhildonmm Jan 23 09:22:51 michele, i was looking for cl4 ;-) Jan 23 09:22:53 and other dependencies..! Jan 23 09:23:01 how can i install that Jan 23 09:23:15 my application is not in a repository Jan 23 09:23:20 veggen? Jan 23 09:23:23 but is the libhildonmm? Jan 23 09:23:26 but thank you Jan 23 09:23:38 yah Jan 23 09:23:48 Luria: (I don't even know what CL4 means) Jan 23 09:24:22 sarower: either with apt-get install from the xterm (you need to be root), or by enabling red pill mode in the application installer. Jan 23 09:24:26 I guess. Jan 23 09:24:55 but red pill mode does not work! Jan 23 09:25:04 how i be a root? Jan 23 09:25:14 how doesn't it work? Jan 23 09:25:38 it does not get the libraries list! Jan 23 09:25:44 i did it Jan 23 09:26:18 sarower: it does list *all packages* that it knows about in the repositories you have configured. Jan 23 09:26:43 how the repositories can be configured? Jan 23 09:27:33 ok. This might sound rude, but is not meant: The first thing you need to do, is to learn to use google, maemo wiki, etc. Jan 23 09:27:38 * michele thinks people here are very very kind and patient Jan 23 09:27:47 Or else you're gonna drive the people in this channel mad. Including me ;) Jan 23 09:28:30 there's no shortcut to actually learning the basics. Jan 23 09:28:39 * desrt observes the flemish content of the channel increase slightly Jan 23 09:28:54 is it to add the web in sources.list? Jan 23 09:29:00 michele, its ram timing Jan 23 09:29:04 yes. Jan 23 09:29:08 ok man Jan 23 09:29:15 i know these! Jan 23 09:29:23 dont be crazy! Jan 23 09:29:29 please! Jan 23 09:30:24 * desrt observes the sanity content of the channel decrease slightly Jan 23 09:30:49 coincidence? i think not. Jan 23 09:31:18 sarower: What you're trying to do is *not* exactly beginner-stuff, and if you expect us to explain that from a beginner-level knowledge, you are simply asking to much of unpaid support. Jan 23 09:32:00 that is good advice Jan 23 09:32:08 but one can still guide people Jan 23 09:32:34 so you need to realize that you have to do a lot of research on the basics of the device on your own, and rather come back and ask clarifications if there's something that's not explained well. Jan 23 09:32:45 pupnik: of course. Jan 23 09:32:55 like you are doing right now Jan 23 09:33:16 sarowar - dependencies are programs that your program needs to run Jan 23 09:33:16 ok man Jan 23 09:33:20 thanx... Jan 23 09:33:45 if the dependencies are compiled, you can find them on the gronmeyer index Jan 23 09:33:58 hi desrt :) Jan 23 09:34:05 if they are not compiled, you need to compile them Jan 23 09:35:25 pvanhoof; yo :p Jan 23 09:35:27 barisione; hi to you too Jan 23 09:35:38 to everyone else; goodbye. Jan 23 09:36:08 desrt: hi :) Jan 23 09:36:54 desrt, in stead of making fun of poor flemish guys behind their back, is your code finished? We're all waiting unpatiently on that great configuration api that you've been promising us since guadec! Jan 23 09:36:56 :) Jan 23 09:37:03 s/on/for Jan 23 09:37:10 eh Jan 23 09:37:13 i just bought an eee Jan 23 09:37:19 and i'm wasting a lot of time playing with it Jan 23 09:39:05 desrt, it probably needs configuration too Jan 23 09:39:12 it definitely does Jan 23 09:39:12 :) Jan 23 09:39:23 it has some bullcrap distribution on it by default Jan 23 09:39:38 but i added debian etch repositories to it and have been happily upgrading :) Jan 23 09:39:48 hi murray :) Jan 23 09:40:20 pvanhoof: any hints on how to get some info on why modest is crashing as soon as I accept my company's certificate (I'd like to provide a sensible report) Jan 23 09:40:44 the default mail client works with it Jan 23 09:40:55 michele, ulimit -c unlimited ; run-standalone modest showui ; and send us the core file Jan 23 09:41:09 or install gdb and try to get a backtrace out of it Jan 23 09:41:14 pvanhoof: ok Jan 23 09:41:14 michele; with only 128MB of memory, the n800 is incapable of fitting all of the design patterns contained in tinymail.... so it runs out of memory and crashes :( Jan 23 09:41:18 or just ping djcb if he's online Jan 23 09:41:24 desrt, :) Jan 23 09:41:24 eheh Jan 23 09:41:28 desrt, :) Jan 23 09:41:30 fu etc etc :) Jan 23 09:41:35 * desrt evil grin Jan 23 09:41:53 I actually quite ejoyed philip's explanations of the design Jan 23 09:42:58 michele, to find the core file: find . -name core Jan 23 09:43:16 in your $HOME, sometimes the process chdirs to $HOME/.modest/ Jan 23 09:43:19 * desrt notes the high probability that the core will contain sensitive information Jan 23 09:43:25 right.. Jan 23 09:43:27 "sometimes" ... Jan 23 09:43:39 well, not at the moment of his certificate question Jan 23 09:43:51 his password will still be in gconf I think Jan 23 09:44:00 yes, modest stores passwords there :( Jan 23 09:44:07 seems about right Jan 23 09:44:16 where else might it put them? Jan 23 09:44:25 I'll send the core to djcb, and this account is going to die in about a month Jan 23 09:44:42 well, it should really use a password store that keeps the password out of swap files (but indeed, the maemo devices don't have swap) Jan 23 09:45:01 doesn't maemo have something like gnome-keyring? Jan 23 09:45:52 pvanhoof; do you have an opinion about ext3 on flash? Jan 23 09:46:02 and by "flash" i mean SD cards Jan 23 09:46:07 well, umfs is better Jan 23 09:46:26 United Methodist Family Services Jan 23 09:46:27 and journaling on flash? just use ext3, no? Jan 23 09:46:27 nice! Jan 23 09:46:28 fat32 FTW Jan 23 09:46:43 well... that's my point Jan 23 09:46:55 does the journal cause an appreciable increase in wear? Jan 23 09:47:04 uhm Jan 23 09:47:08 no core to be found Jan 23 09:47:27 I just write onto my flash sequencialy and keep the address table written on a napkin in my back pocket Jan 23 09:47:27 I did set ulimit Jan 23 09:47:39 desrt, http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/ Jan 23 09:47:50 I meant UBIFS Jan 23 09:47:57 oh. right. Jan 23 09:48:01 http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/doc/ubifs.html Jan 23 09:48:01 so i'm installing ubuntu :) Jan 23 09:48:19 michele, strange .. well, you could try installing gdb. You know how to do this michele ? Jan 23 09:48:37 You basically need to add a repository to your sources.list file, and fakeroot apt-get install gdb Jan 23 09:48:46 You might want unstripped binaries of modest and tinymail too Jan 23 09:49:00 pvanhoof: yes Jan 23 09:49:01 I'm not sure how the current packages store the shared object files Jan 23 09:49:26 then, important is to run whatever you find in run-standalone in your shell Jan 23 09:49:40 I think it sources a file and unsets a env. variable Jan 23 09:49:52 and then gdb modest, set args showui and run Jan 23 09:49:59 thank you Jan 23 09:50:37 anyway, this is a bit more work than a core dump, and I'm supposed to be working :) Jan 23 09:52:10 hmm Jan 23 09:52:20 supposedly ext3 will wear my SD cards out a lot faster Jan 23 09:52:29 like they might only last for 50 years instead of 100 Jan 23 09:52:38 Oh noes Jan 23 09:52:40 Crisis Jan 23 09:52:47 :P Jan 23 09:54:14 michele, same here :) Jan 23 09:54:25 so I'm now going to start serving that customer :) Jan 23 09:54:26 heh Jan 23 10:22:55 to work with hildon on my desktop do I need just python-hildon package or is there anything else? Jan 23 10:30:12 is there an API for altering the default application for a certain mime type? I realise I can just edit the /etc/gnome/defaults.list directly (as root). Jan 23 10:38:20 attempting to run the hello world code in this article http://www.teemuharju.net/2006/01/26/coding-for-nokia-770-using-python-part-1/ on my desktop results in the script being ran but nothing happens Jan 23 10:38:54 when the N770 (running ITOS 2007 HE) displays boot manager and displays Nokia logo, but reboots after that, how can I find out whats wrong? I started from different partition and did e2fsck on the filesystem, which fixed lots of errors, but the N770 still doesn't boot up. Is therea hardware console possibility or something? Jan 23 11:01:31 There is a serial console, but it requires building a cable for the pins and so on. Another possibility would be installing bootmenu and including telnet or sshd on the initfs but that would basically need a working device... Jan 23 11:02:12 You could of course create an initfs on some other machine, copy it from there and flash it but... Jan 23 11:03:41 zuh: well, I can boot from other partition Jan 23 11:04:05 and from internal flash Jan 23 11:04:38 Ah, ok. Jan 23 11:04:59 problem when creating deb for N810 Jan 23 11:05:05 any body? Jan 23 11:05:20 dh_testdir Jan 23 11:05:21 # Add here commands to configure the package. Jan 23 11:05:21 ./configure --host=arm-linux-gnueabi --build=arm-linux-gnueabi --prefix=/usr --mandir=\${prefix}/share/man --infodir=\${prefix}/share/info CFLAGS="-Wall -g -O2" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs" Jan 23 11:05:21 checking for a BSD-compatible install... /scratchbox/tools/bin/install -c Jan 23 11:05:21 checking whether build environment is sane... yes Jan 23 11:05:22 checking for gawk... gawk Jan 23 11:05:24 checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes Jan 23 11:05:26 checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no Jan 23 11:05:28 checking for arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc... arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc Jan 23 11:05:30 checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables Jan 23 11:05:32 See `config.log' for more details. Jan 23 11:05:36 make: *** [config.status] Error 77 Jan 23 11:05:46 when giving the command: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot Jan 23 11:06:13 kala: I've done some debugging by simply editing the linuxrc to echo stuff on the initfs, but that's a bit dangerous :) Jan 23 11:06:23 (echo to a file I mean) Jan 23 11:06:34 zuh: hmm ... Jan 23 11:06:55 its not possible to view the booting text? Jan 23 11:07:13 ok, there was, you sayd it Jan 23 11:07:36 but this cable for serial console is different from usb cable? Jan 23 11:08:21 so happy. Jan 23 11:08:32 kala: Yeah, it's basically a normal serial cable, but the problem is that the connector is just a flat set of contacts inside the machine... Jan 23 11:09:06 finally hildon an app. Jan 23 11:09:10 now to pack it up. Jan 23 11:09:11 zuh: ok. Jan 23 11:09:50 I'm not sure if anyone has actually done such cable though, just heard plans of such Jan 23 11:10:20 any body there?? Jan 23 11:10:26 to solve the prob? Jan 23 11:10:41 problem when creating deb for N810 Jan 23 11:10:41 any body? Jan 23 11:10:41 dh_testdir Jan 23 11:10:41 # Add here commands to configure the package. Jan 23 11:10:41 ./configure --host=arm-linux-gnueabi --build=arm-linux-gnueabi --prefix=/usr --mandir=\${prefix}/share/man --infodir=\${prefix}/share/info CFLAGS="-Wall -g -O2" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs" Jan 23 11:10:43 checking for a BSD-compatible install... /scratchbox/tools/bin/install -c Jan 23 11:10:45 checking whether build environment is sane... yes Jan 23 11:10:47 checking for gawk... gawk Jan 23 11:10:49 checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes Jan 23 11:10:51 checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no Jan 23 11:10:52 checking for arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc... arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc Jan 23 11:10:55 checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables Jan 23 11:10:57 sarower: see config.log for more details Jan 23 11:10:58 See `config.log' for more details. Jan 23 11:11:00 make: *** [config.status] Error 77 Jan 23 11:11:12 sarower: Jan 23 11:11:14 stop Jan 23 11:11:23 I know but it is not clear to me...... Jan 23 11:11:34 sarower: as was said before, this is not begnnier stuff Jan 23 11:11:53 sarower: if you don't know what you are doing, you should read manuals and documentation Jan 23 11:12:00 but this thing is not beginner issue..! Jan 23 11:12:03 right? Jan 23 11:12:10 exaclty Jan 23 11:12:16 and you are a beginner Jan 23 11:12:20 any idea about running that hello world code from the article? Jan 23 11:12:39 ofcourse..! Jan 23 11:13:35 when I run a python/gtk/hildon app on my desktop I see no gui window. what could I be missing? Jan 23 11:15:25 ah: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=552&release_id=1367 Jan 23 11:15:36 (usbserial for os2008) Jan 23 11:18:40 sarower: it's not that beginners doesn't deserve help, but you have too high expectations for what you can get done as a beginner. You need to get the feel of installing/using the device first. And did you compile programs for Linux desktop/server before? etc. Jan 23 11:37:56