**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 28 02:59:57 2008 Jan 28 03:00:06 korpios, if this is about the sums in the repo, I've reported this bug already Jan 28 03:00:13 unique311: http://pupnik.de/snes9x_N8x0.zip Jan 28 03:00:13 czr: ahhh okay. Jan 28 03:00:25 thanks Jan 28 03:00:30 czr: ah yeah, duh, that would make sense; it can't hash itself if it isn't finished being generated ;-) Jan 28 03:00:32 korpios, bugzilla.maemo.org, search for md5sums. you should find it Jan 28 03:00:44 korpios, indeed. hence the md5sums file should never include a line for the file itself. Jan 28 03:00:51 cool. thanks :-) Jan 28 03:01:01 i'm not happy until the chrono trigger clock is 20+ fps Jan 28 03:01:02 turbografx still acting like a little girl, so its on timeout. Jan 28 03:01:11 * korpios happily proceeds to flash his new unit Jan 28 03:01:52 pupnik, I'm going to test out some games. i'll give you feedback. Jan 28 03:03:13 i'm looking at the horror again Jan 28 03:03:28 ? Jan 28 03:03:38 the gp2x port i started Jan 28 03:04:21 pupnik, the archive is corrupted Jan 28 03:04:49 he's right. Jan 28 03:05:05 try agin Jan 28 03:05:37 works Jan 28 03:06:28 have zip of source? Jan 28 03:06:46 or is it straight? Jan 28 03:08:21 i think it is almost unchanged snes9x-1.5 Jan 28 03:08:37 bin Jan 28 03:10:11 need to pass any flags pupnik? Jan 28 03:10:30 snes9x - Jan 28 03:10:40 try ./snes9x -ns -f 3 Jan 28 03:13:21 what's wrong with the sound now? Jan 28 03:13:37 snes uses OSS Jan 28 03:13:45 and we don't have alsa-oss? Jan 28 03:14:00 or is that too much overhead/not compatible with some dsp? Jan 28 03:14:01 not really, at least i didn't get it working Jan 28 03:16:46 ah Jan 28 03:20:28 * Xamusk is away: I'm busy Jan 28 03:20:49 * Xamusk is away: Sleeping Jan 28 03:22:06 pupnik, was fast. but no fullscreen, Jan 28 03:22:13 another tiny screen emu Jan 28 03:24:42 its playable. Jan 28 03:25:02 stick an AB button on the screen. Jan 28 03:29:50 i wish we had /dev/dsp Jan 28 03:30:37 alsa-osso-1.0.14 compiled and installed in my scratchbox Jan 28 03:30:42 I have /dev/dsp1 now I think? Jan 28 03:31:09 I have no way of testing it yet. Jan 28 03:31:13 how? Jan 28 03:31:29 http://alsa.cybermirror.org/oss-lib/alsa-oss-1.0.14.tar.bz2 Jan 28 03:31:33 alsa-oss source for the matching version Jan 28 03:31:40 ahha Jan 28 03:31:45 configure;make;make install Jan 28 03:32:01 I apt-get installed lib-asound* first Jan 28 03:32:08 or asound* Jan 28 03:32:24 [sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/src/alsa-oss-1.0.14] > ls -l /dev/dsp1 Jan 28 03:32:24 crw-rw---- 1 root audio 14, 19 Jan 27 00:15 /dev/dsp1 Jan 28 03:32:40 yeah i built that too http://pupnik.de/deps/libasound2-dev_1.0.8-3_armel.deb Jan 28 03:33:14 will this work? Jan 28 03:33:49 i'll rebuild it for dsp1 Jan 28 03:35:30 http://pupnik.de/dsp1.zip Jan 28 03:36:50 http://www.flyn.org/patches/snes9x-1.26-esd/snes9x-1.26-esd.patch.gz that's also interesting Jan 28 03:39:11 dsp1 supposed to run that after i install also-osso? Jan 28 03:39:24 lost Jan 28 03:39:28 too many links Jan 28 03:40:10 that's snes9x that tries to open /dev/dsp1 instead of /dev/dsp Jan 28 03:46:21 hello all, does anyone know of an existing tool like "locate" for finding files on an N8x device? Jan 28 03:47:44 find Jan 28 03:49:12 there seems to be something under file manager -> tools Jan 28 03:49:49 Has anybody ever used the Search application? Jan 28 03:50:11 ls -R / | grep "filename" Jan 28 03:51:28 use at your own risk Jan 28 04:02:27 I have alsa-oss .deb ready, just need to fix something in the morning Jan 28 04:04:46 can i delete the junk in /scratchbox/ccache? Jan 28 04:05:01 it's like 1GB here Jan 28 04:05:43 I personally don't see why you couldn't. Jan 28 04:05:49 whatever uses that worked fine before it was there, right? Jan 28 04:06:33 maybe the dirs need to be preserved Jan 28 04:06:36 http://www.scratchbox.org/documentation/user/scratchbox-1.0/html/toolchain.html Jan 28 04:06:39 it can be disabled Jan 28 04:07:33 14GB was already too small :/ Jan 28 04:07:35 bed time Jan 28 04:07:53 ok cu Jan 28 04:07:59 come back tomorrow ! Jan 28 04:08:43 i never leave, I'm in the machine. Jan 28 04:59:14 -rw-r--r-- 1 maemo maemo 154356 Jan 28 2008 tile.gcda Jan 28 04:59:15 -rw-rw-r-- 1 maemo maemo 1040388 Jan 28 02:08 tile.gcno Jan 28 04:59:16 woohoo Jan 28 05:06:32 ahahahaha Jan 28 05:06:32 hahahah Jan 28 05:06:32 woo! Jan 28 05:06:39 ask me about a2dp in debian/n800! Jan 28 05:06:52 what about a2dp in debian/n800 Jan 28 05:08:01 it works out of the box with no skipping Jan 28 05:08:09 gah...but it's a resource hog Jan 28 05:09:05 sets the period size right at least Jan 28 05:10:58 it seemed so good at first but it's actually using way more CPU time than on ITOS :/ Jan 28 05:14:57 at least bluetooth works right Jan 28 05:28:10 I'm having trouble getting usb host mode working on my n800 with OS2008 Jan 28 05:56:23 Where can I get rx-34-kernel-headers Jan 28 05:57:56 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0/free/l/linux-kernel-headers/ Jan 28 06:01:16 hmm Jan 28 06:01:20 those are old aren't they... Jan 28 06:01:48 there's kernel source here at least: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0/free/k/kernel-source-rx-34/ Jan 28 06:31:56 mmor speed Jan 28 06:33:35 Has/quit Jan 28 06:35:44 How do i add Copy and Paste to the toolbar short cuts in osso-xterm? Jan 28 06:41:44 can you do that? Jan 28 06:42:14 I don't think those are suported, unless there is a keystroke for them Jan 28 06:42:34 proteous: i guess not... here is the list of possible values Jan 28 06:42:42 http://olya.com/maemo/keysyms.c Jan 28 06:44:05 what about just paste? can you somehow highlight and then do a middle click equivalent? Jan 28 06:44:53 basically copy and paste is the way that I program so without it I'm crippled. :P Jan 28 06:45:08 error27: try + and + Jan 28 06:45:08 also that's how i do homework. Jan 28 06:47:42 argh crashed my xterm :) Jan 28 06:50:04 heck, didn't work Jan 28 06:51:02 it works on my normal gnome-terminal Jan 28 07:15:08 Was this here already? http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1185531 Jan 28 07:15:24 "Nokia to acquire Trolltech to accelerate software strategy" Jan 28 07:15:34 ??? Jan 28 07:15:59 how does this fit into anything? Jan 28 07:17:37 hrm, which version of gtk does maemo have? Jan 28 07:19:12 pupnik: apparently "Trolltech and Nokia share the goal of accelerating the adoption of Trolltech's Qt based technology in the commercial market and in the open source community," Jan 28 07:19:43 2.0 timelyx afaik Jan 28 07:20:12 pupnik: 2.2, 2.6, 2.8, or 2.10? Jan 28 07:20:51 ii libgtk2.0-0 2.10.12-0osso32.1 Jan 28 07:21:42 * timelyx wonders about 2006 and 2007 :) Jan 28 07:21:51 * timelyx really should find a table, but irc is much more convenient Jan 28 07:26:10 good morning *g* Jan 28 07:50:41 hello, may i know if i can get some help for microB? Jan 28 07:51:37 it depends on whether we can help :) Jan 28 07:51:48 what's the problem? Jan 28 07:52:40 Hi Johnx! Actually after I've built the .deb files... I don't know what to do with them... Jan 28 07:52:54 I've installed maemo 3.0 Jan 28 07:53:12 and then there isn't a Application Manager for me to install those .deb files Jan 28 07:55:31 http://browser.garage.maemo.org/docs/build_howto.html was the instructions I followed. I've done the two lines.. Jan 28 07:55:36 fakeroot apt-get build-dep microb-engine Jan 28 07:55:37 fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -nc Jan 28 07:56:13 Of course I manually made debian packages for bc and libidl... Jan 28 07:56:31 kennyyu_, cd ..; dpkg -i X.deb Jan 28 07:56:41 Extended Input Devices not yet supported. Impelement it at line 625 in ../../../../hw/kdrive/src/kinput.c Jan 28 07:56:42 replace X with the deb you want to install Jan 28 07:57:28 and then I'll be able to see the microB in my emulated screen? Jan 28 07:57:43 kennyyu_, no thw whole microb isn't open Jan 28 07:57:51 so you can't Jan 28 07:57:59 that's just the engine Jan 28 07:58:55 ahh that's a xwephyr erro Jan 28 08:00:04 Hmm.. maybe I should start looking into qt.. Jan 28 08:01:48 jku, you mean microb is not available for end-users' testing yet? Jan 28 08:02:25 jku: that's not entirely true Jan 28 08:02:41 jku: all of the source code you need is in that same repository, though I haven't checked the license on each and every file Jan 28 08:03:14 db48x, try it. browser-ui isn't there Jan 28 08:03:28 it's just the engine Jan 28 08:04:17 jku: browser-ui is at https://garage.maemo.org/svn/browser/browser-ui/trunk/tablet-browser-ui Jan 28 08:04:33 jku: and what I've seen of it is licensed under the MPL, so have at it Jan 28 08:05:11 https://garage.maemo.org/svn/browser/browser-ui/trunk/tablet-browser-ui/src/main.c, for example Jan 28 08:05:49 there are a couple of other packages you need to build as well Jan 28 08:06:15 but they're all in there Jan 28 08:07:48 db48x, I believe that's the reference UI, not the actual shipping one Jan 28 08:08:08 db48x: please don't advertise that ui Jan 28 08:08:13 it's not a reference ui Jan 28 08:08:19 in fact its legality is questionable Jan 28 08:08:25 reall? Jan 28 08:08:27 really? Jan 28 08:08:29 yeah Jan 28 08:08:34 source files have MPL in them :) Jan 28 08:08:38 which is of course an awkward thing for me to say Jan 28 08:08:47 understandably Jan 28 08:08:58 timelyx, interesting :) Jan 28 08:09:15 which is why i'd rather not say it on the mailinglist Jan 28 08:09:18 or repeat myself Jan 28 08:09:24 please just forget those urls exist Jan 28 08:09:49 db48x: the key about licensing is whether the people who did it had permission to do it Jan 28 08:09:54 yea Jan 28 08:10:23 anyway, officially, the ref ui is refui and it's somewhere else Jan 28 08:10:29 Hmm. Nokia bought troll tech. Jan 28 08:10:41 yeah, unexpected Jan 28 08:11:00 (maybe I just didn't get the memo) Jan 28 08:11:01 does that mean qt on the tablets? Jan 28 08:11:03 timelyx: so what's the difference between that and what's shipped? Jan 28 08:11:18 jku: the whole microb *is* open Jan 28 08:11:23 but microb *is* an engine Jan 28 08:11:24 not a ui Jan 28 08:11:48 do you have a name for the browser that comes with the os2008? Jan 28 08:11:48 pupnik: hope so + cell phones Jan 28 08:11:52 fwiw, in trunk the default plugin and flash plugin no longer rely on the browser Jan 28 08:12:03 kulve: tablet-browser :) Jan 28 08:12:07 timelyx, yeah but it doesn't help the confusion that the browser doesn't have a name that I know of Jan 28 08:12:10 i have it because i named it :) Jan 28 08:12:22 (seriously) Jan 28 08:12:52 and if you think explaining source status is tricky, imagine how much fun finding a name was Jan 28 08:13:05 * timelyx wanted to name it hermit Jan 28 08:13:11 names are never fun Jan 28 08:13:21 I can't even name my D&D characters Jan 28 08:13:51 Choose Gandalf. *hides* Jan 28 08:14:12 oh sure, that's unique Jan 28 08:14:22 Maemogator! Jan 28 08:14:23 heh, I do that sort of thing sometimes, though usually I go to the Encyclopedia Arda and pick an obscure name Jan 28 08:14:27 ;-) Ah, need to check the order of the sticks strip for news Jan 28 08:15:24 Maemzilla? ...but that might cause people to think the browser might maim them :/ Jan 28 08:15:32 I need to play a Fëanor some time Jan 28 08:15:47 johnx: so, keep in mind, the browser can support multiple engines Jan 28 08:15:49 play morgoth Jan 28 08:15:53 it is *not* tied to microb Jan 28 08:15:58 jumpula: heh Jan 28 08:16:04 :) Jan 28 08:16:05 as shipped for 2007 it could use opera Jan 28 08:16:27 At work, we have japanese as naming standard, for our unix machines. Any japanese words goes. Jan 28 08:16:28 and technically it could use opera today if you could find an adapter layer for it (and an opera lib...) Jan 28 08:16:40 hentai? Jan 28 08:16:57 i was about to say bukkake but bit my tongue Jan 28 08:17:10 Bakka? Jan 28 08:17:13 decided to say anyway, because we're already on the topic Jan 28 08:17:23 which means that when I set up two more machines for an application that is sort of slow and stupid, I could name the machines slow and stupid, just in japanese :) Jan 28 08:17:31 timelyx: actually I've been trying to figure out how that works the past few days Jan 28 08:17:49 db48x: which part? Jan 28 08:17:50 eal? Jan 28 08:17:53 yea Jan 28 08:17:56 theoretically we have docs :) Jan 28 08:18:01 hah Jan 28 08:18:14 have you read them? Jan 28 08:18:18 no Jan 28 08:18:21 (if we ever have anyone from japan getting a job here, they're gonna have fun) Jan 28 08:18:32 you could start by reading them Jan 28 08:18:33 dunno why I didn't think to look for any Jan 28 08:18:50 probably because there weren't any docs for microb when I started Jan 28 08:18:53 http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/browser/www/docs/eal/ Jan 28 08:19:06 db48x: i presume you have the mxr-maemo-org dns deb Jan 28 08:19:07 404 Jan 28 08:19:15 nope Jan 28 08:19:26 infobot mxr.maemo.org deb? Jan 28 08:19:26 extra, extra, read all about it, mxr.maemo.org deb is unofficial, all warrantees void, http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/mxr-maemo-org-dns-0.1.deb Jan 28 08:19:38 I can't use debs Jan 28 08:19:43 hey, that sounds like something we sold to beltzner! Jan 28 08:19:49 so read the source :) Jan 28 08:20:05 http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/mxr-maemo-org-dns-0.1/DEBIAN/postinst Jan 28 08:20:36 yea, I found it Jan 28 08:20:53 db48x: anyway, it just gives you fewer roots and prettier branding Jan 28 08:20:57 and me shorter urls :) Jan 28 08:21:39 personally, i do it by hand on most machines Jan 28 08:21:46 but on my tablets, i use the debs :) Jan 28 08:22:16 I guess it's the same address for mxr. Jan 28 08:22:16 ? Jan 28 08:22:27 .which? Jan 28 08:22:30 oh, you have two debs Jan 28 08:22:36 it's the same ip as timeless.justdave.net Jan 28 08:22:53 ah Jan 28 08:23:25 I found the one for repository instead of the one for mxr Jan 28 08:23:41 well, they're nearly identical :) Jan 28 08:24:25 * timelyx has vaguely considered writing a dependent package Jan 28 08:24:32 it'd be kinda amusing Jan 28 08:24:55 rocessor : Arm920Tid(wb) rev 0 (v4l) Jan 28 08:24:56 BogoMIPS : 99.32 Jan 28 08:25:09 we should be kicking butt... on gp2x Jan 28 08:25:11 oh, I think I've seen this Jan 28 08:25:17 heh Jan 28 08:25:25 though maybe it's more detailed now Jan 28 08:25:33 not likely :) Jan 28 08:25:48 Hmm... Jan 28 08:25:49 but now you can use mxr :) Jan 28 08:27:06 sorry I think I've missed somthing. What is mxr? a browser? Jan 28 08:27:37 kennyyu_: it's a source code index Jan 28 08:27:44 kennyyu_: see mxr.mozilla.org, for example Jan 28 08:27:54 I saw it.. sorry :P Jan 28 08:28:44 Unsupported setsockopt level=1 optname=9 hrmm Jan 28 08:29:01 so... actually, I'm doing a research and I need a source code for a browser running on a mobile device... can you suggest me one so that I can start with? I've found quite a few (webkit on android/webkit on S60/owb on maemo/...) but none of them has stable source code. That is, I compiled them with many problems... Jan 28 08:30:02 ? Jan 28 08:30:09 define stable, define problems Jan 28 08:30:14 kennyyu_, what are the requirements? Jan 28 08:30:14 links is stable Jan 28 08:30:18 are you complaining the build process failed? Jan 28 08:30:22 minimo is stable Jan 28 08:30:27 or that the browsers didn't survive once run Jan 28 08:30:27 heh Jan 28 08:30:34 db48x: stable because it's dead? :) Jan 28 08:30:40 very unchanging, yep :) Jan 28 08:30:40 timeless: yup :) Jan 28 08:31:03 ar.. ha.. sorry. just the compilation process... Jan 28 08:31:24 kennyyu_: how sucky is your toolchain? Jan 28 08:31:25 because, for example, I followed the following link to compile Mozilla Jan 28 08:31:44 e.g., the maemo toolchain is fairly sucky Jan 28 08:31:50 http://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Build/Maemo_Build_Instructions Jan 28 08:32:16 yeah, what went wrong? Jan 28 08:32:30 dolske + db48x will gladly help :) Jan 28 08:32:39 but even I followed all the things, it gives me error " undefined reference to `nsINode::GetProperty(unsigned short, nsIAtom*, unsigned int*)"... blah blah blah Jan 28 08:33:42 moin Jan 28 08:33:53 I threw up my hands in despair a month or two ago, before anyone had documented anything, so don't look at me :-) Jan 28 08:33:55 kennyyu_: i hit that Jan 28 08:33:59 is there a linux phone already? (regarding the trolltech buy) Jan 28 08:34:14 kennyyu_: i kinda gave up, i blamed the compiler for sucking Jan 28 08:34:25 [in fairness, it was just before OS2008 was due so I didn't feel like sinking a bunch of time into getting things going on 2007...] Jan 28 08:34:26 you can try --disable-optimize Jan 28 08:34:44 I just run make and let it build Jan 28 08:34:51 and maybe --disable-libxul --enable-shared Jan 28 08:35:21 db48x: strange, my trunk build in sbox dies w/ the exact same error Jan 28 08:35:36 timeless: interesting Jan 28 08:35:41 * timelyx asserts the toolchain *sucks* Jan 28 08:35:50 I haven't done a trunk build in scractbox though, because I'm not an idiot Jan 28 08:36:04 see, take db48x's advice Jan 28 08:36:15 oh wait Jan 28 08:36:24 which part is idiotic, trunk or sbox? :) Jan 28 08:37:50 kennyyu_: wanna try something? Jan 28 08:37:53 http://mxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/content/base/public/nsINode.h#323 Jan 28 08:37:58 see lines 324..327? Jan 28 08:38:13 and similarly for 365..368 Jan 28 08:38:32 yes? Jan 28 08:38:46 move those function impls into http://mxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/content/base/src/nsGenericElement.cpp Jan 28 08:39:06 i.e. get rid of {...} leaving just ;. and copy the body w/ proper decl into that file Jan 28 08:39:34 odds are w/ a lot of stupid copying, the problem will go away Jan 28 08:39:41 well, moving Jan 28 08:40:02 wa! i'll try it now.. Jan 28 08:40:12 and, you tried that before? Jan 28 08:40:15 if that works, please let me know, and i'll *gladly* walk you through the process of driving a related patch into cvs Jan 28 08:40:16 no Jan 28 08:40:23 hahahaa!!! Jan 28 08:40:27 ok I'll try :) Jan 28 08:40:28 had i tried it, i wouldn't have said my build failed the same way Jan 28 08:40:43 i'd have said, "oh, i worked around that by... and it's bug ..." Jan 28 08:41:02 ah ha, ic. thanks! let you know soon :-) Jan 28 08:41:02 but conceptually, i recognize what's going on Jan 28 08:41:24 db48x: did i mention the toolchain *sucks*? Jan 28 08:41:46 i think it's basically deciding not to bother keeping a *normal* version of the function Jan 28 08:41:52 and only inlining it where it thinks it's needed Jan 28 08:41:58 which doesn't include some places Jan 28 08:42:13 (where it assumes there's a normal function available) Jan 28 09:03:05 Morning, all Jan 28 09:05:48 Morning !!! Jan 28 09:06:21 Khertan: did you ever get around to building gemRB? Jan 28 09:12:34 http://trolltech.com/28012008/28012008 Jan 28 09:12:39 GRumblllle. Jan 28 09:12:45 do we have to learn Qt now ? :) Jan 28 09:13:43 well, I'll be glad to if it means no more S60 :) Jan 28 09:14:09 I don't like Qt Jan 28 09:14:10 doubt it Jan 28 09:14:17 "This acquisition will also further increase the competitiveness of S60 and Series 40." Jan 28 09:14:43 Erk,that's surprising news. Jan 28 09:14:46 fwiw, did anyone note the bit about "nokia *subsidiary*"? Jan 28 09:15:02 Symbian won't go away soon, unfortunately Jan 28 09:15:13 michele: eventually :) Jan 28 09:15:31 kennyyu_: so status? Jan 28 09:15:34 timelyx: oh, didn't see that Jan 28 09:15:34 <_berto_> webcast here -> http://www.nokia.com/press Jan 28 09:15:38 <_berto_> starting right now Jan 28 09:15:52 timelyx: yeah, I spotted that. I wonder if Nokia's long heritage of running succesful open source software projects is referenced in the Letter to the Open Source community Jan 28 09:15:58 I do like Qt better than Symbian, at least. Jan 28 09:16:04 _berto_ requires registration? Jan 28 09:16:28 http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1185531 has one of the most horrible disclaimers ever Jan 28 09:16:33 <_berto_> don't know, I just saw the link Jan 28 09:17:04 timelyx: Random data works fine.. Jan 28 09:17:35 Nokia's software strategy for devices is based on cross-platform development environments, layers of software that run across operating systems, enabling the development of applications across the Nokia device range. Examples of current cross-platform layers are Web runtime, Flash, Java and Open C. Jan 28 09:18:52 Started. Jan 28 09:18:53 I guess Qt will be more of a transition path from Symbian to Linux Jan 28 09:19:10 * timelyx frowns Jan 28 09:19:13 I don't think maemo will jump from gtk to qt, there might coexist but that would take a while too Jan 28 09:19:23 trolltech software has only shipped in 10million devices? Jan 28 09:20:11 they might buy trolltech just to keep 'em away Jan 28 09:20:32 openc isn't that much of a cross platform layer....... Jan 28 09:20:43 glass: i was wondering Jan 28 09:20:54 qtopia is used in quite many devices Jan 28 09:20:57 I think it will be something for the S40 and S60, there is POSIX stack already.. Jan 28 09:21:06 AFAIK, panasonic, samsung, sony etc. Jan 28 09:21:29 qtopia phone ed is quite portable Jan 28 09:21:32 bon dia / good morning Jan 28 09:21:35 VRe: Big companies don't like having diverged devices, platforms and strategies though. I imagine there'll be a lot more pressure - increasing over time - internally in Nokia to consolidate on Qt across all Linux-based devices Jan 28 09:22:01 qtopia phone ed already ran on 770 a year ago Jan 28 09:22:35 Jaffa: #<...> Jan 28 09:23:01 actually, no :) Jan 28 09:23:06 i don't see them porting qt in a good way anytime soon to symbian Jan 28 09:23:13 Jaffa: eventually yes, but I think this maemo is still a bit odd one out in the corp. I think the qt is to extend Symbian somehow Jan 28 09:23:58 vre: even openc "porting" is a bitch if you're not lucky, and it doesn't have any gui stuff at all Jan 28 09:24:05 to symbian Jan 28 09:24:40 It is too difficult to developt anything on symbian and there is a bunch of other platforms coming from bushes.. m$, androids etc. Jan 28 09:25:09 vre: symbians appeal comes from their dominating marketshare Jan 28 09:25:23 not from ease of developing or such Jan 28 09:25:25 glass: What I have experience, and other boys have said, everything is a bitch on symbian :) Jan 28 09:25:32 pretty much yes Jan 28 09:25:36 * timelyx pokes Jaffa Jan 28 09:25:38 it sure is Jan 28 09:25:48 but you can get so much more done than on just j2me devices or even on wm Jan 28 09:26:02 or on androids vm Jan 28 09:26:02 glass: who cares? Jan 28 09:26:10 gmail and gmaps are great Jan 28 09:26:22 * timelyx doesn't need more from a phone Jan 28 09:26:36 then you're well off with a j2me device.. Jan 28 09:27:01 In long run Symbian as it is now is doomed, but what are the steps to get away from it.. Jan 28 09:27:16 symbians been "doomed" in geek talk circles for 5 years Jan 28 09:27:27 long run Jan 28 09:27:49 long run everything is doomed.. but symbian wont go away in years Jan 28 09:28:13 in geek circles they can gossip what ever, but change to happen there needs to be alternatives on the market Jan 28 09:28:15 simply because of the sheer numbers Jan 28 09:28:39 theres alternatives.. but problem with nokias competitors is that they keep their spoons in every soup Jan 28 09:28:42 was the average phone change cycle now around 2 years.. Jan 28 09:28:44 moto isn't focused at all for example Jan 28 09:29:01 neither is samsung Jan 28 09:29:12 glass: you're accusing Nokia of focus? Jan 28 09:29:33 timelyx: compared to nokia and samsung nokia is very focused. thats how bad motos and sammys focus is Jan 28 09:29:36 fjdoi Jan 28 09:29:41 replace first nokia with moto Jan 28 09:29:42 Ehm, they mention maemo.. Jan 28 09:29:43 I just hope they do not put any phone on tablets Jan 28 09:29:53 "Maemo will continue to be base on gnome" Jan 28 09:30:00 *based Jan 28 09:30:11 no qt love Jan 28 09:31:03 glass: ok, "wow" :) Jan 28 09:33:57 timelyx: moto does their own linux+java(which just shows java to user), wm, even in android camp, their former own fuller linuxes, then hey had their own symbian suff and later bought sendo which did their "multimedia flagship" symbian phone last year, yet you mainly jus hear about razrs from them.. Jan 28 09:36:32 <_collin_> hi Jan 28 09:37:33 <|tbb|> hi collin, Jan 28 09:37:45 <|tbb|> have u noticed my note Jan 28 09:37:54 |tbb|: did you play? Jan 28 09:38:20 <|tbb|> s/note/note, yesterday/ Jan 28 09:38:20 |tbb| meant: have u noticed my note, yesterday Jan 28 09:38:39 <|tbb|> timelyx, what do you mean? Jan 28 09:38:47 w/ mxr.maemo Jan 28 09:39:12 <|tbb|> i was asking you what that is, no i havnt right now Jan 28 09:39:20 i kinda explained Jan 28 09:39:30 although the rest is explanatory once you visit it Jan 28 09:40:13 mxr.maemo looks like mxr.mozilla.org, but has maemo branding and maemo content :) Jan 28 09:40:48 <_collin_> tbb: ??? Jan 28 09:41:00 <|tbb|> about iodine Jan 28 09:41:06 <_collin_> email? Jan 28 09:41:14 <|tbb|> gtalk Jan 28 09:41:21 <_collin_> then nop Jan 28 09:42:38 <|tbb|> one guy was asking if you around here and if u could upgrade iodine to 4.1 Jan 28 09:42:46 <_collin_> ahok Jan 28 09:42:51 <_collin_> will do Jan 28 09:44:24 hello again... i will now reflash my nokia 770 with os2007he, is there somewhere some page where i could find all good settings and hacks i should add just after installation Jan 28 09:44:49 hacks, settings and software to make device perform better and work faster Jan 28 09:45:27 |tbb|: my nick isn't registered Jan 28 09:45:52 /join #|tbb| :) Jan 28 09:46:26 * timelyx grumbles Jan 28 09:46:47 ircd shouldn't let registered people send messages to unregistered people w/o a warning Jan 28 09:49:32 400 cycles for smooth sb16 playback :( otherwise dosbox can go up to like 1600-2000 on n8x0 Jan 28 09:49:50 * pupnik must be doing something wrong Jan 28 09:50:31 maybe it's all alsa's fault Jan 28 09:52:31 timelyx, sorry for not being here just a moment before... and I've followed your advice and it's still being compiled... it seems to me it's working Jan 28 09:52:41 wonderful Jan 28 09:52:46 ok, let's work on a bug+patch Jan 28 09:52:55 do you have an account in bugzilla.mozilla.org? Jan 28 09:53:02 no i don't Jan 28 09:53:02 if not, now's the time to create one Jan 28 09:53:09 i'd suggest using a gmail account Jan 28 09:53:20 nothing else handles bugmail well, and you will eventually get spam Jan 28 09:53:30 however, you're free to ignore my advice Jan 28 09:53:33 ha, alright. but shall i wait till the compilation's done first? :( Jan 28 09:53:37 nah Jan 28 09:53:48 haha, i'm also using gmail. Jan 28 09:54:03 you can sign up for the account and work on filing the bug now Jan 28 09:54:10 we'll actually want a different patch anyway Jan 28 09:54:35 i get your meaning Jan 28 09:54:37 I do think that the jvm based aproach has plenty of good properties Jan 28 09:56:59 so... am I to report the bug for 'firefox'? Jan 28 09:57:22 or Mozilla Labs? Jan 28 09:58:16 LoCusF> there is the GreenPhone Jan 28 09:59:15 kennyyu_: core Jan 28 09:59:21 which is probably hidden near "other" Jan 28 09:59:23 or "more" Jan 28 09:59:26 * timelyx can't remember which Jan 28 10:00:13 oops, I see there isn't a different error message coming out after the amendment... Jan 28 10:00:24 isn't? Jan 28 10:00:28 same error? Jan 28 10:00:32 same error Jan 28 10:00:37 * timelyx frowns Jan 28 10:00:41 someone can explain me how can i register mimetype 'python' with the extension '.py' which enable osso file manager to open pygtkeditor when i double click on a .py file ? Jan 28 10:00:42 TestXMLExtras.o:(.data._ZTV11nsIDocument[vtable for nsIDocument]+0x58): undefined reference to `nsINode::GetProperty(unsigned short, nsIAtom*, unsigned int*) const' Jan 28 10:01:28 it takes me 5-10 minutes to re-generate such error @-@"" the make process is too long Jan 28 10:02:02 hrm, --disable-tests Jan 28 10:02:17 and are you sure that isn't a different error? Jan 28 10:02:18 what hacks and apps should i add in freshly reflashed it2007he? Jan 28 10:02:30 was the original complaining about TestXMLExtras.o or something else? Jan 28 10:04:27 let me check... Jan 28 10:04:36 kennyyu_: i believe that's "a different error" Jan 28 10:04:40 i can explain the difference later Jan 28 10:05:07 I posted the original error in dev-platforms-mobile@lists.mozilla.org Jan 28 10:05:26 oic Jan 28 10:06:06 http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.platforms.mobile/browse_thread/thread/ee34fc2d0a8949f8#3491967fd4da0686 ? Jan 28 10:06:13 that's solvable by --disable-tests Jan 28 10:06:16 or should be Jan 28 10:06:19 the code is buggy Jan 28 10:06:23 nsINode is private Jan 28 10:07:10 * timelyx frowns Jan 28 10:07:12 timelyx: yea, I think you did mention that Jan 28 10:07:29 * timelyx has a really sucky memory Jan 28 10:07:44 timelyx: Are there plans for browser updates via application manager? Weekly upgrades like modest does? Jan 28 10:07:54 X-Fade_: no Jan 28 10:08:10 we suffered a major blow due to some really clever contract work by a different party Jan 28 10:08:41 how's that? Jan 28 10:08:44 X-Fade_: note that we had a number of incremental releases while we were in beta Jan 28 10:09:48 timelyx: Yeah, I know you hade some updates. I wondered if it was possible to have an 'unstable' version to test. Jan 28 10:09:59 *had Jan 28 10:10:16 X-Fade_: at the moment i think that the contract work puts a fairly major stop to anything Jan 28 10:10:25 that and a minor little problem of we're back to being secretive about work Jan 28 10:10:35 timelyx: That is too bad :( Jan 28 10:10:54 X-Fade_: we're not doing much in the way of "improvements" that you'd benefit from Jan 28 10:11:29 that reminds me Jan 28 10:11:46 I need to apply this perf patch to the maemo tree Jan 28 10:12:41 timelyx: There are just some irritating bugs that might or might not be fixed easily. Would be nice to have them without having to wait for a new firmware update. Jan 28 10:13:15 timelyx: But if they aren't being fixed, I guess it doesn't matter :) Jan 28 10:23:55 X-Fade_: i haven't even managed to get my localhost patch into svn :) Jan 28 10:23:58 and it's in bugs.maemo :) Jan 28 10:27:28 hello, i have problems flashing my n800 with linux on laptop Jan 28 10:27:37 is this a known problem? Jan 28 10:27:45 that's vague Jan 28 10:27:48 eichi: depends on what the problem is? Jan 28 10:27:49 you could join ITT Jan 28 10:27:52 <_collin_> very vague Jan 28 10:27:59 i'm sure they have lots of vague problems there Jan 28 10:28:20 Veggen: how dare you ask for details :) Jan 28 10:29:04 USB device found found at bus 005, device address 014 Jan 28 10:29:05 Found device RX-34, hardware revision 1301 Jan 28 10:29:05 NOLO version 1.1.6 Jan 28 10:29:05 Version of 'sw-release': Jan 28 10:29:25 and then it ends Jan 28 10:29:37 eichi: It should work, but one of the more common mistakes is not running it as root/through sudo. Jan 28 10:30:20 i'm root Jan 28 10:30:33 eichi: unplug the device from the power, power off the device, connect the usb, run "sudo flasher ...", power on the device Jan 28 10:30:51 also, what arguments did you give it? Jan 28 10:32:14 johnx, you are the man Jan 28 10:32:29 i forgot the -F before bin file Jan 28 10:32:33 thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week Jan 28 10:32:39 remember to tip your bots Jan 28 10:32:46 kulve: I am playing a bit with some ideas for kilikali ui ;) Jan 28 10:33:04 johnx, hehe, thanks Jan 28 10:33:41 michele: if you are really interested about implementing something there, I could show you our plan. Yes, we have a "UI spec", nobody has just had the time to start implementing it.. Jan 28 10:33:49 timelyx, I tried to 'ac_add_options --disable-tests' in ./browser/config/mozconfig but it didn't work either.... :( Jan 28 10:34:14 wow os2008 looks nice Jan 28 10:35:18 * masz1 scared that os2009 will be qt based Jan 28 10:35:46 what would be the point Jan 28 10:36:06 kulve: yes, I'd like to see it. to know if we are on the same wavelenght, at least Jan 28 10:36:16 michele: probably not :) Jan 28 10:36:39 kennyyu_: um Jan 28 10:36:42 same error? Jan 28 10:36:55 kulve: let's see if it's more interesting than my idea, then :) Jan 28 10:37:13 http://mxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/extensions/xmlextras/Makefile.in#48 Jan 28 10:37:22 it clearly says ifdef ENABLE_TESTS Jan 28 10:37:47 it seems he modified the wrong mozconfig Jan 28 10:37:50 anyway, i'm going to visit a nurse. i've been sick since friday morning Jan 28 10:38:00 db48x: that'd have been my guess Jan 28 10:38:09 personally i change .mozconfig or $MOZCONFIG Jan 28 10:38:41 $MOZCONFIG for me Jan 28 10:38:50 that way I can keep a bunch of them around Jan 28 10:39:38 well, I have to sleep Jan 28 10:39:58 when i'm smart, .mozconfig forces a very early build failure :) Jan 28 10:40:32 heh Jan 28 10:40:42 if it was missing it would fail Jan 28 10:41:11 let me try. i think you mean i have to modify a .mozconfig in the location specified by MOZCONFIG Jan 28 10:41:19 kennyyu_: no Jan 28 10:41:32 oh? Jan 28 10:41:34 MOZCONFIG can be any absolute pathname, and the build will use that Jan 28 10:41:48 MOZCONFIG='/home/db48x/moz/ffconfig', for example Jan 28 10:42:21 if MOZCONFIG is undefined, it looks for a file named either '.mozconfig', 'mozconfig', 'mozconfig.sh' or 'myconfig.sh' in the source directory Jan 28 10:42:28 or in your home directory Jan 28 10:43:10 those instructions create a file called 'mozconfig' in the mozilla source directory Jan 28 10:43:10 when you said "in the source directory", do you mean that any directories in the source tree? @@ Jan 28 10:43:13 so edit that Jan 28 10:43:15 no Jan 28 10:43:19 just the top level directory Jan 28 10:43:22 icic Jan 28 10:43:25 mozilla/mozconfig Jan 28 10:43:57 with and without a dot isn't important? Jan 28 10:44:05 no, not important Jan 28 10:44:08 i c the file is without a dot Jan 28 10:44:14 right Jan 28 10:44:19 :) thanks! i get a clearer picture now Jan 28 10:44:25 those instructions say to do this: Jan 28 10:44:27 cd mozilla/ Jan 28 10:44:27 cp browser/config/mozconfig . Jan 28 10:45:24 if instead of copying the file it had said to do |echo ". browser/config/mozconfig" > mozconfig| then you would have had a config file that sources the one you edited, and it would have worked Jan 28 10:46:03 anyway, sleep Jan 28 10:46:08 ere I keel over right here Jan 28 10:47:03 Hmm paging for comments doesn't work at all. I'll have a look at it.. Jan 28 10:47:09 db48x, many thanks! Jan 28 10:50:25 i want a germany keyboard layout, but i made maemo englisch (UK) is there a way to change tastaturlayout only? Jan 28 10:58:27 hey, why i'm unable to use mmc in my n770... statusbar has usb-connection icon, but usb isn't even unplugged Jan 28 10:58:35 i have rebooted this many times Jan 28 11:07:02 hi all Jan 28 11:07:54 hi maddler Jan 28 11:47:41 I really don't get why people insist on mplayer (for audio)... it jumps the first time you try to use the cpu for something else, it's not convenient at all Jan 28 11:49:19 michele, this is 2008OS? Jan 28 11:49:23 yes Jan 28 11:49:25 I like the inbuilt player just fine for audio Jan 28 11:49:49 mplayer has unresolved issues with audio in 2008OS...but hopefully it will improve Jan 28 11:49:53 alterego: I do too. unfortunately it's ssslllooowww Jan 28 11:50:26 How do you mean slow? Jan 28 11:50:39 I just have it running on random all the time :) Jan 28 11:50:55 does n800 or n810 play 800x480 video smoothly with good bitrates? Jan 28 11:50:57 The delay between tracks has been reduced to an acceptable level. So I don't mind much. Jan 28 11:51:00 or at all? Jan 28 11:51:19 no Jan 28 11:51:35 reinard, because the bus to the LCD controller is slow 800x480@25+fps is impossible Jan 28 11:51:44 besides the CPU requirements Jan 28 11:52:10 if he video contains mostly a static picture.. Jan 28 11:52:13 +t Jan 28 11:52:23 :D static video, sounds good Jan 28 11:52:24 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine?do=post_view_printable;post=19711;list=maemo Jan 28 11:52:26 there's going to be an audiocast about the TT buy Jan 28 11:52:27 very practical Jan 28 11:53:17 middle management loves static videos...they call them slideshows... Jan 28 11:53:53 dilbert. powerpoint Jan 28 11:54:24 someone please invent pocketsized, reasonably priced, powerful device with a >800x480 lcd capable to play videos natively Jan 28 11:54:43 reinard, see what the sony mylo2 has to offer Jan 28 11:54:48 it has the right sized screen Jan 28 11:54:56 I know *nothing* about it though Jan 28 11:55:24 how much money do you want to spend? Jan 28 11:55:39 500eur Jan 28 11:56:05 wow that mylo2 got to be the ugliest device i have seen in long time Jan 28 11:56:30 What's the recommended way of handling "big" apps (e.g. 10s of MB) on OS2008? I'm kind of surprised that the out-of-the-box partitioning results in rootfs filling up so quickly - didn't they expect people to install more than 256MB of apps? Jan 28 11:57:20 boot from sd partition Jan 28 11:58:31 pupnik: Is there a doc more uptodate than http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/ ? Jan 28 11:58:50 Maybe the next tablet, when ever it comes, will have good capabilities for video playback.. but it seems that it is always a trade-off.. n800 2xsd -> n810 -> keyboard and 1xminisd (or whatever) Jan 28 11:58:51 pupnik: I don't want to risk bricking my N810. Jan 28 11:58:51 good morning Jan 28 11:59:06 alterego: the UI is slow, when I want to switch to another artist/album (I have an ipod shuffle, if that's all I need :) Jan 28 11:59:45 aspiers: there is no way you can really brick your device with bootfd on card Jan 28 12:00:09 aspiers: another workaround is, if you just have a couple of big apps with much data in /usr/share, you can usually move their shared data to sd and symlink to it Jan 28 12:01:41 actually, the "brickage" rate of the N8x0s seems really low Jan 28 12:02:19 Meh Jan 28 12:02:39 except for the guy on ITT who wrote random stuff to /dev/mtdblock[01] I don't think I've heard of one tablet bricked by a user with only software Jan 28 12:02:42 VRe: I guess part of the problem is that I have yet to discover a good page explaining the whole boot process: how the bootloader and initfs works, where the kernel lives etc. Jan 28 12:03:09 has anyone got a micro sdhc card working in a microsd -> mini adapter? Jan 28 12:03:12 in the n810? Jan 28 12:03:16 aspiers, magic. It's all voodoo. Jan 28 12:03:21 pupnik: true - since they're .deb based I'd have to symlink /usr/share itself. Jan 28 12:03:28 alterego: thanks, very useful :) Jan 28 12:03:29 zaheerm, yes, people do Jan 28 12:03:31 Zenton_: yes Jan 28 12:03:33 hups Jan 28 12:03:36 zaheerm: yes Jan 28 12:03:45 mine doesn't but works with a 1GB microsd Jan 28 12:03:53 and my 8GB microsdhc works with my n95 Jan 28 12:04:02 btw http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ appears to be broken Jan 28 12:04:13 are there extra pins in a sdhc compared to an sd? Jan 28 12:04:19 aspiers, the boot loader is closed, it boots the kernel from the a dedicated mtd location/partition. And passes in command line arguments that can be changed using the flasher utility. Jan 28 12:04:46 zaheerm, no extra pins Jan 28 12:05:07 so wonder why the adapter works with the 1GB and not the 8GB Jan 28 12:05:17 kulve, anything special you had to do? Jan 28 12:05:21 alterego: so kernel lives in one of the /dev/mtdblock? then Jan 28 12:05:39 aspiers: I recommed this: http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#initfs Jan 28 12:05:44 no need to know the "magic" Jan 28 12:05:48 aspiers, yes. The second one I think. Jan 28 12:06:08 kulve: yes I was looking at it, thanks for the recommendation Jan 28 12:06:14 zaheerm: no. First I inserted it only half way and the device got confused, but properly inserted everything worked ok Jan 28 12:06:48 those are the same pins , but the access method is different Jan 28 12:06:54 I still don't understand why isn't rootfs on the N810 internal SD by default though... Jan 28 12:06:55 kulve, which microsdhc do you have? Jan 28 12:06:55 Actually, it's mtdblock2 Jan 28 12:07:00 Not sure what mtdblock1 is .. Jan 28 12:07:10 mtdblock0 or 1 is the bootloader? Jan 28 12:07:10 aspiers: "cat /proc/mtd" to see the partitions Jan 28 12:07:17 aspiers, yes. Jan 28 12:07:21 kulve: ahah! nice Jan 28 12:07:24 zaheerm: kinsgston Jan 28 12:07:26 -s Jan 28 12:07:34 mtd1 == config Jan 28 12:07:54 aaah it worked now! Jan 28 12:07:57 * aspiers runs strings on mtdblock1 Jan 28 12:08:01 Ah yes. Jan 28 12:08:12 that must be the 8th time i've tried to insert it :) Jan 28 12:11:54 maybe Nokia never expected the community to develop enough apps to fill the default rootfs? though there was already a huge user/app base by the time N810 came out Jan 28 12:11:56 can we create new mtd partitions on the internal storage(to have two root partitions?) Jan 28 12:12:40 keesj, mtd is the internal system flash. It's 256M Jan 28 12:12:52 keesj, do you mean the 2GB on the N810? Jan 28 12:12:52 aspiers: most apps designed specifically for the tablets can be very small Jan 28 12:13:00 keesj, if you make a partition on the internal memory card, then the partition isn't mtd it's mmc Jan 28 12:13:00 yes the 2g Jan 28 12:13:13 or is that movinand? Jan 28 12:13:15 someone can explain me how can i register mimetype 'python' with the extension '.py' which enable osso file manager to open pygtkeditor when i double click on a .py file ? Jan 28 12:13:33 Double click? Jan 28 12:14:03 keesj, my initial thought would be yes...but that's just a hunch Jan 28 12:14:16 standard disclaimers apply and all that Jan 28 12:14:38 I understand. Jan 28 12:15:45 I had my share of paint the first day I had the 810 , and I am ready for some new ones :) Jan 28 12:16:01 http://dev.openbossa.org/trac/mamona/wiki/RecoverBrokenDevice Jan 28 12:17:56 alterego> double thumb touch if u prefer :) Jan 28 12:18:12 Khertan, what uses a double click? Jan 28 12:18:20 I've never double clicked in the file manager. Jan 28 12:19:32 alterego > double click or whateverelse to open a file Jan 28 12:19:45 You mean single press? Jan 28 12:20:12 if u want ... Jan 28 12:20:30 Well, that's how it works .. Jan 28 12:20:57 alterego> maybe, i mainly use ok dpad button ... same things :) Jan 28 12:21:32 Yeah, you only press that once too :P Jan 28 12:21:47 what i mean is that when i try to open a file with the filemanager, actually they display me a message that it can found application to open python file (.py) and let s me choose in a list Jan 28 12:22:27 what i want is add ".py" extension and python mime type to bypass this dialog to open file directly in pygkteditor Jan 28 12:22:42 Sure, mime type association is pretty simple and is in the maemo documentation Jan 28 12:24:57 oh ... i ve just found a interesting thing in documentation about ogg vorbis ... http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/getting_started_with_multimedia.html Jan 28 12:29:15 is there any python binding for maemo certificates API? Jan 28 12:33:22 henrique > there is one is the svn nammed "python-certman" Jan 28 12:34:41 Khertan, do you know if there is packages? Jan 28 12:35:29 https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/packages/python-certman/trunk/src/certman.h?view=log&root=pymaemo&pathrev=151 Jan 28 12:35:34 henrique, Khertan, this is an initial/incomplete binding Jan 28 12:35:40 Added Tue Apr 24 15:03:50 2007 UTC (9 months ago) by dandrader Jan 28 12:35:40 File length: 2386 byte(s) Jan 28 12:35:40 Added python-certman to the repository. It's still in its early development stages. Jan 28 12:35:54 it s in dev processus Jan 28 12:35:57 not complete Jan 28 12:36:24 and none package seems available Jan 28 12:36:42 please file a request at https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?atid=229&group_id=40&func=browse Jan 28 12:36:50 Khertan, luck^ ok thank you Jan 28 12:36:54 I'll take a look Jan 28 12:37:00 ok! Jan 28 12:47:21 <|tbb|> http://easytag.sourceforge.net/ <- is this hard to port it for maemo Jan 28 12:47:55 shouldn't be too difficult Jan 28 12:48:18 I have a feeling it already compiles for ARM Jan 28 12:48:25 the most difficult part will be modifying the UI Jan 28 12:48:34 you planning to hildonize it? Jan 28 12:52:27 me? no. Jan 28 12:52:36 I meant |tbb| Jan 28 13:01:23 <|tbb|> no i dont it was just a question, but it where nice someone do it ;) Jan 28 13:03:40 there have been several requests for a tagging application Jan 28 13:04:05 but their UIs are necessarily complex, and nobody seems to want to put in the work Jan 28 13:05:05 <|tbb|> seems to be much work. Jan 28 13:06:22 DIY weekend, made a neoprene pouch for my N810, much nicer than the standard one :) And just made a USB Nokia charger on my lunch break. Jan 28 13:06:28 Good times Jan 28 13:06:59 what did you use for the usb charger? Jan 28 13:07:19 <|tbb|> alterego got pics? Jan 28 13:07:21 cut, wire, heat shrink? Jan 28 13:07:29 Luria, yeah. Jan 28 13:07:36 Had a broken charger and a spare USB lead. Jan 28 13:07:49 i was going to do that but its such a waste Jan 28 13:07:58 Waste of what? Jan 28 13:07:58 the chargers are so expensive Jan 28 13:08:06 The charger was broken :P Jan 28 13:08:06 i dont have a broken charger Jan 28 13:08:09 :-) Jan 28 13:08:30 alterego: you have a detailed howto? :) Jan 28 13:08:40 i have a broken charger too Jan 28 13:08:52 I'm going to wire a more standard connector to the actual charger. And use it as a switch mode power supply for my USB hub that I use with my tablets. Jan 28 13:08:57 So no waste at all :) Jan 28 13:09:37 solmumaha, not really rocket science :) Just wire up USB black to connector black and USB red to the other connector wire. Jan 28 13:09:48 connector black is the outside, red is the inside. Jan 28 13:10:17 i would love a auto sensing usb port... usb host gives power, usb target draws Jan 28 13:10:24 Though it's wize to do a check on the USB connector, by plugging it into a computer and reading the output with a multimeter. Jan 28 13:10:35 i was about to say that Jan 28 13:10:53 you dont want to have two stripped wires touching each other Jan 28 13:11:00 Oh look, there's a video on youtube :) Jan 28 13:11:09 link? Jan 28 13:11:30 http://youtube.com/watch?v=SfjeD9TIvLc Jan 28 13:12:29 there's a video? on youtube? Jan 28 13:12:40 Yes, a video on youtube! Jan 28 13:12:51 * Tak head explodes Jan 28 13:13:15 Hahah: This is in American English: http://youtube.com/watch?v=SjEuwrPx-gQ&feature=related Jan 28 13:13:45 yeah tak, but did you film it? and put the video on youtube? on youtube!? Jan 28 13:13:48 Exactly how I did it, except the voice was English :) Jan 28 13:14:10 Sowder? Jan 28 13:14:14 Doesn't he mean solder? Jan 28 13:14:44 l is not pronounced in NA Jan 28 13:14:54 in line with the ME roots, actually Jan 28 13:15:09 Oh, Jan 28 13:15:12 Weird. Jan 28 13:15:22 He sounds kind of like kermit the frog. Jan 28 13:15:24 solder, with the l is common everywhere else Jan 28 13:15:24 yeah, we pronounce "solder" "sodder" Jan 28 13:15:45 Was Kermit from NA? :) Jan 28 13:16:14 grrr why wont this firefox process die die die Jan 28 13:16:27 nice work @ video ;-) Jan 28 13:16:49 Luria, it doesn't want to die!!! Jan 28 13:17:28 no shit. kill -9 did nothing, repeatedly Jan 28 13:17:38 Is it zombied? Jan 28 13:18:10 one sec Jan 28 13:20:57 btw, the latin source for solder has the l pronounced. i have a nagging suspicion that the NA version maintains an older english pronunciation an the GB version is a hypercorrection of sorts Jan 28 13:21:28 these things happen. Jan 28 13:21:34 *shrug* Jan 28 13:22:37 Yeah Jan 28 13:23:02 I heard that American English is more how we (English Puplic) would have spoke it back in the day. Jan 28 13:23:29 mostly from french influence in the prestige (read royal) dialect Jan 28 13:23:50 in some respects. Jan 28 13:23:53 I think we've had this conversation before :P Jan 28 13:24:01 possibly. Jan 28 13:24:38 i wouldnt go that far tho, saying its more like back in the day. Jan 28 13:24:53 * Luria loves the oed. Jan 28 13:29:22 would you like a Kanola? Jan 28 13:29:23 ok, anybody knows how to dump the rom from a newton? Jan 28 13:29:36 * michele googles Jan 28 13:30:04 well, the world looks better in lynx Jan 28 13:32:08 argh... looks like I need 1. a db8-serial cable and 2. a usb-to-serial Jan 28 13:32:22 Heh Jan 28 13:32:29 Don't you mean DB9? Jan 28 13:32:52 was wondering that myself Jan 28 13:32:57 does dpkg have an equivalent of rpm -qa --last ? Jan 28 13:33:09 What does rpm -qa --last do? Jan 28 13:33:17 aspiers, what does that rpm command do? Jan 28 13:33:37 man, i havent used rpm since the 90s Jan 28 13:34:00 it shows you all installed rpms in chronological order Jan 28 13:34:15 yes, DB9 Jan 28 13:34:16 so you can see what you layered on top of the base install, for example Jan 28 13:34:47 looks like /var/log/dpkg* is the best I found so far Jan 28 13:34:48 Why chronological? Jan 28 13:35:45 ops Jan 28 13:35:47 I'm considering reflashing, so I want to capture which extra .debs I have installed first Jan 28 13:35:57 ah Jan 28 13:36:04 It doesn't have to be chronological - is there a better way? Jan 28 13:36:28 i would dpkg --get-selections now Jan 28 13:36:36 then later,then diff the file output Jan 28 13:36:48 dpkg --list ? Jan 28 13:36:52 Luria: it's a bit late for that - I've already installed loads Jan 28 13:37:26 aspiers, does it matter? You can diff after you reflash Jan 28 13:37:39 right, but if you diff it to a post install list, you should have a manageable number Jan 28 13:37:40 alterego: doh! good point :) Jan 28 13:37:46 ;) Jan 28 13:37:57 ummmm.... didnt i just say that? Jan 28 13:38:06 I think we both did :P Jan 28 13:38:22 Luria: yeah, but I thought you thought I currently had a vanilla install Jan 28 13:38:46 Luria: thought you were suggesting a diff forwards not in reverse Jan 28 13:38:49 well, then diff wouldnt be helpful :-) Jan 28 13:38:53 np :-) Jan 28 13:39:01 :-) Jan 28 13:39:29 Still need to check my understanding of a few points first ... Jan 28 13:39:37 i would use get selections over list tho Jan 28 13:39:48 so you can use it with apt get Jan 28 13:40:02 Luria: good point Jan 28 13:40:35 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux will flash all of mtdblock[0-4] right? Jan 28 13:40:39 Yeah, use Luria's method. It's a lot cleaner output. Jan 28 13:40:56 So only SD and some locking codes are preserved? Jan 28 13:41:01 tho >'ing both could be handy in figuring out if you want the pacakge installed Jan 28 13:41:10 after reflash Jan 28 13:42:01 aspiers, are you backing up repository locations too? Jan 28 13:42:04 hmm, I'm currently on RX-34+RX-44_2008SE_1.2007.42-18_PR_MR0 Jan 28 13:42:16 alterego: yes, was planning to - just sources.list right? Jan 28 13:42:21 doh, yeah, keep sources.list Jan 28 13:42:31 aspiers, no. You need to backup the directory. Jan 28 13:42:35 the whole of /etc/apt to be safe Jan 28 13:42:41 keys etc. Jan 28 13:42:49 Yes, sources.list is normally empty .. Jan 28 13:42:59 ah, it's in sources.list.d Jan 28 13:42:59 ok Jan 28 13:43:06 Yes Jan 28 13:43:14 i meant .d, yes Jan 28 13:43:18 I think that's actually generated from an XML file though .. Jan 28 13:43:29 is 2007.42-18 still the latest? Jan 28 13:44:04 No, I'm on 50-2 Jan 28 13:44:49 rx-34+rx-44 is clearly not a production release :-) Jan 28 13:44:53 any kmplayer developers here? Jan 28 13:45:01 It is. Jan 28 13:45:07 It's the N810 image. Jan 28 13:45:20 Luria: alterego is right, it came with the image (UK model) Jan 28 13:45:24 sorry, what i meant to say is Jan 28 13:45:33 rx-34+rx-44 is clearly not a production release for the n800 :-) Jan 28 13:45:38 :) Jan 28 13:45:40 Heh Jan 28 13:45:52 Luria, it is. Jan 28 13:45:52 Am wondering whether to use fanoush's stuff or not Jan 28 13:45:56 but i havent switched, cause i like my sd slots Jan 28 13:46:06 really? Jan 28 13:46:19 The value in /etc/osso_software_version is not identical to the image name that you download. Jan 28 13:46:22 So it's confusing. Jan 28 13:46:30 Mine's an N810 Jan 28 13:46:35 i had no idea. Jan 28 13:46:55 aspiers, yeah. Not sure about the N800, I'd have to power it up and check. Jan 28 13:47:10 sigh, 3:30 left on this smb transfer. Jan 28 13:47:21 hours or minutes? :D Jan 28 13:47:25 you'd think moving 40gb 15 feet would be quicker Jan 28 13:47:30 hours:minutes Jan 28 13:47:34 Eesh Jan 28 13:47:37 Samba is slow. Jan 28 13:47:44 its better than ssh Jan 28 13:47:50 Yes, it is. Jan 28 13:47:50 ok, now I'm confused. /mnt/initfs/linuxrc has code for a boot menu - so why is fanoush's modified initfs needed? Jan 28 13:47:55 You should just use netcat :P Jan 28 13:48:04 Luria: netcat Jan 28 13:48:17 from windows to linux? Jan 28 13:48:18 * aspiers read about socat yesterday - "netcat++" Jan 28 13:48:22 Luria: the fastest way is put them in a usb hd, move 15 feet Jan 28 13:48:34 Hahah Jan 28 13:48:46 Luria, wireless or wired? Jan 28 13:48:49 station wagon bandwidth Jan 28 13:48:52 wired Jan 28 13:49:01 Crazy. Jan 28 13:49:07 i suspect the problem is the tons of tiny files Jan 28 13:49:15 its my ebooks Jan 28 13:49:28 Yeah, I'd tar gzip it and transfer that .. Jan 28 13:50:02 i need some good management software for all these books Jan 28 13:50:14 'rm -rf' ? Jan 28 13:50:19 textbooktorrents is evil Jan 28 13:50:45 should i type that in a shell now? Jan 28 13:51:04 Luria: "tar cz MyFiles | netcat $IP 1234" and "netcat -l -p 1234 -q0 | tar xz" on the other side Jan 28 13:51:54 that would work if both sides were linux Jan 28 13:51:57 robtaylor: scp -r is slow, tar cz piped to ssh isn't that slow,. Jan 28 13:52:39 Luria: install cygwin?maybe the moving usb harddrive is the best option ;) Jan 28 13:52:40 I hardly use scp -r anymore, unless I know that it's few and large files. Jan 28 13:52:44 my god, the whole channel woke up Jan 28 13:52:45 I wonder where the overhead is with scp -r Jan 28 13:52:46 Veggen: good point Jan 28 13:52:54 Has there been any discussion on Nokia's acquisition of Trolltech? Jan 28 13:53:08 actually started with winscp Jan 28 13:53:15 that was abysmal Jan 28 13:53:30 Luria: cygwin isn't a bad idea. Jan 28 13:53:31 nokia bought trolltech? Jan 28 13:53:41 Luria, "yes" Jan 28 13:53:43 I just read that too Jan 28 13:53:44 wow Jan 28 13:53:52 what does that mean for maemo? Jan 28 13:53:59 aspiers: interesting point. I first though tcp window size, but that shouldn't be a problem unless scp -r is really stupid Jan 28 13:54:01 another gui change coming.... Jan 28 13:54:02 nobody knows Jan 28 13:54:04 :-\ Jan 28 13:54:16 http://trolltech.no/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2008-01-28.4605718236 Jan 28 13:54:23 jacques: for now, i'd guess absolutely nothing Jan 28 13:54:28 it seems like no one has any idea what they intend to do with trolltech/qt Jan 28 13:54:29 robtaylor: it's a fact that scp -r is slow. Jan 28 13:54:31 well, i did buy a n800 over a zaurus 3200 Jan 28 13:54:33 most of the speculation seems to be that nokia wanted qtopia for phones, and hadn't even though about the possible maemo angle Jan 28 13:54:45 some speculate it's to keep other phone companies from using Qt on phones Jan 28 13:54:46 Veggen: i accept the fact,just wonder why ;) Jan 28 13:54:52 now i can have both :-) Jan 28 13:55:02 i suspect nothing will happen to maemo Jan 28 13:55:16 until kubuntu mobile:-) Jan 28 13:55:22 robtaylor: I think it has to do with how it manages to utilize the tcp pipe. That it does it one file at a time. Jan 28 13:55:25 jacques: guessing a bit, I'd guess nokia has spent more on maemo than it will in buying trolltech Jan 28 13:55:45 robtaylor, wow Jan 28 13:56:10 robtaylor: incl. h/w development costs, perhaps. On software, I'd be surprised (but I dunno how much they're buying Trolltech for) Jan 28 13:56:54 I wonder what that means for the future of the tablets. Jan 28 13:57:18 I guess it depends on how gtk+/gnome and Qt evolve. Jan 28 13:57:37 Jaffa: its only 100 million euro Jan 28 13:57:40 alterego: remains to be seen. Whether or not they intend Qt phone to be their long-time phone strategy, and that it's totally unrelated to maemo, or.... Jan 28 13:58:03 alterego: How commited is Nokia to Symbian, really? Is that something they'd rather want to get rid of? Jan 28 13:58:15 I still bet it's to keep it out of other people's hands and that they really have no idea how to integrate it right now with anything Jan 28 13:58:34 Veggen, cost wise, sure/. Jan 28 13:58:34 <_berto_> nokia owns almost 50% of Symbian afaik Jan 28 13:58:53 It still costs them money to use Symbian I believe. Jan 28 13:59:04 Jaffa: though yeah, mameo probably hasn't cost quite that much so far Jan 28 13:59:34 Veggen: I heard rumours that Symbian was nicknamed POS (Piece Of Shit OS - not quite a recursive acronym like GNU ;-) by its developers but not sure if that is true or not Jan 28 13:59:44 Veggen: I doubt they are going to ditch symbian anytime soon, they have lots of business over there, lots of 3rd parties developing on it Jan 28 13:59:45 _berto_, 47,9 % Jan 28 13:59:53 aspiers, it has evolved into something quite messy. Jan 28 14:00:00 symbian is horrible Jan 28 14:00:12 from every possible point of view Jan 28 14:00:19 michele: :) Jan 28 14:00:22 Linux on the cell phone makes sense. really. Jan 28 14:00:22 <_berto_> and in their press release some hours ago they said that maemo wasn't going to be affected by this purchase Jan 28 14:00:30 I don't like developing much for Symbian, mainly because I'm not a massive fan of C++ Jan 28 14:00:37 who is? Jan 28 14:00:41 I like the idea that something can run on different devices, that is not the idea I currently get from maemo/hildon Jan 28 14:00:42 _berto_, got a link? Jan 28 14:00:59 yes, the press release says that Jan 28 14:01:02 keesj, Hildon, yes. Maemo, no :) Jan 28 14:01:05 <_berto_> http://www.nokia.com/press Jan 28 14:01:09 Well, HildonDesktop no :) Jan 28 14:01:20 the smart phone OS market seems competitive right now only because all the choices are bad Jan 28 14:01:22 <_berto_> http://www.nokia.com/A4813580 Jan 28 14:01:28 I think Nokia is mainly interested in TT's x-platform expertise Jan 28 14:01:30 alterego: I am talking about feeling here not reality :p Jan 28 14:01:47 <_berto_> there's a link to the webcast there Jan 28 14:01:49 Hah Jan 28 14:01:51 johnx: yeah Jan 28 14:02:04 or they're concerned with who tt does business with Jan 28 14:02:09 johnx: if by "bad" you mean "painful" Jan 28 14:02:14 which so far was about everybody BUT nokia? Jan 28 14:02:40 johnx++ Jan 28 14:02:42 glass: that would be the cynical view, but isn't that a wild shot even Jan 28 14:03:09 Chief Troll? :D Jan 28 14:03:31 yeah and their ticker symbol os TROLL Jan 28 14:03:37 hi... anyone else here which has to deal with proxy to install maemo-sdk? Jan 28 14:03:48 I love how HTC managed to sell the Touch as an iPhone killer just by putting a dark home view and am ugly fake rotating cube to switch tasks over WM Jan 28 14:04:02 * Tak wait for r.m.o to refresh Jan 28 14:04:30 apt-upgrade fails for me, with 403 forbidden (using the maemo SDK installer script) Jan 28 14:05:10 hmmm... is there anything stronger than kill -9 that wont end my session? Jan 28 14:05:51 Luria, kill -15 ? Jan 28 14:06:07 tried that through htop Jan 28 14:06:14 no, 15 is weaker than 9 Jan 28 14:06:14 -6 ? Jan 28 14:06:21 -3? Jan 28 14:06:22 damn, firefox just wont go Jan 28 14:06:31 $153 million doesn't sound like much (for trolltech) Jan 28 14:06:32 is it zombie? Jan 28 14:06:42 i dont think so Jan 28 14:06:52 kimrhh, have you tried setting $http_proxy and/or $HTTP_PROXY? Jan 28 14:07:10 Luria: can't stop processes in D state Jan 28 14:07:25 Luria: whats does ps say for STAT ? Jan 28 14:07:26 for i in `seq -15 0` ; do kill $i 1234; done Jan 28 14:07:52 Heh Jan 28 14:08:01 no Zs if that's what you mean Jan 28 14:08:33 johnx: tried setting it with the -A option Jan 28 14:08:41 and also as env. var. Jan 28 14:08:50 only lowercase though Jan 28 14:08:54 anyone know who to report brokenness of http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ to? Jan 28 14:09:03 the script tells me it passes the proxy value to apt Jan 28 14:09:04 kimrhh, it's just a guess Jan 28 14:09:08 johnx: :) Jan 28 14:09:21 johnx: I think i should just try a manual install Jan 28 14:09:31 I hate this damn proxy... Jan 28 14:09:51 yeah...I could see that Jan 28 14:10:01 aspiers: he, yeah I was also puzzled that I should login to CMS Jan 28 14:10:41 Luria: zombie, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie_process. kill -9 the parent process Jan 28 14:11:01 unless it's init ;-) Jan 28 14:11:05 * Tak bets the parent process is something important like init Jan 28 14:11:32 orphans are adopted by init when the parent dies Jan 28 14:11:55 D state is different to Z (zombie) state Jan 28 14:12:13 actually, kill -CHLD the parent process Jan 28 14:12:21 D is uninterruptible sleep, i.e. it's blocking on something in the kernel Jan 28 14:12:33 if you had a decent (non-busybox) ps you could see what the WCHAN state is Jan 28 14:12:52 aspiers: yep, things talking to the dsp can often be seen in 'D' ;) Jan 28 14:12:55 or echo t > /proc/sysrq-trigger but I don't know if that works on maemo Jan 28 14:13:16 <||cw> hm, so nokia is buying trolltech, wonder what this means for maemo... Jan 28 14:13:30 with GNU ps, ps -O wchan:25 -p $pid works nicely Jan 28 14:13:43 aspiers: broken witk already was commited in bugzilla (bugs.maemo.org) Jan 28 14:13:48 ||cw, I would guess everything, something, nothing or something in between Jan 28 14:14:02 ||cw, seems they just plan on using it for S40 and S60 based devices. Jan 28 14:14:35 <||cw> Jaffa: $153 million was mentioned... Jan 28 14:14:54 Still bloody C++ though :D Jan 28 14:15:02 * aspiers finally spots the rd_mode check in /mnt/initfs/linuxrc Jan 28 14:15:27 so actually there's no need to modify initfs to be able to boot off MMC, right? Jan 28 14:15:35 the code is already there in linuxrc Jan 28 14:15:59 johnx: oh well, it worked when I manually exported the http_proxy env. var inside scratchbox Jan 28 14:16:07 :D Jan 28 14:16:30 * Luria got tired of waiting Jan 28 14:16:54 Hahah Jan 28 14:21:56 No mention of series 90 ... Jan 28 14:22:03 Are they dropping the communicator line? Jan 28 14:23:06 series 90? Jan 28 14:23:13 the latest communicator is series 60 Jan 28 14:23:23 Really? Oh, okay :) Jan 28 14:23:36 Series 90 was used only in one phone that had touch-screen Jan 28 14:23:45 7710 Jan 28 14:23:46 Series 80 was in communicators but has now been replaced with S60 Jan 28 14:23:52 7700 too though that was never sold Jan 28 14:24:01 Ah Jan 28 14:24:08 new communicators are s60 Jan 28 14:24:25 the long term thing is to put everything in s60 Jan 28 14:24:30 Meh, I don't even like the communicator line :) Jan 28 14:25:09 it's just more choice Jan 28 14:25:27 Who needs choice, just give us the best :D Jan 28 14:29:29 people prefer different form factors :) Jan 28 14:29:59 maemo is kind of successor of S90 Jan 28 14:30:08 At least the name "hildon" was inherited from there ;) Jan 28 14:32:15 inz: was it? Jan 28 14:32:53 glass: people should just shut up and accept what I decide to be the best Jan 28 14:33:07 well, me and alterego Jan 28 14:33:53 :) Jan 28 14:34:13 michele, try googling for s90 hildon Jan 28 14:34:44 * johnx sleeps Jan 28 14:35:41 when I can successfully do rfcomm bind /dev/rfcomm0 00:01:53:02:DF:A5 Jan 28 14:35:59 and cat /dev/rfcomm0, but the maemo-mapper doesn't find GPS, whats wrong with maemo-mapper? Jan 28 14:36:20 Use GPSd Jan 28 14:37:15 alterego: gpsd should be configured and running before I try maemo-mapper? Jan 28 14:37:36 Yes, Jan 28 14:37:47 ok, will try that Jan 28 14:40:18 gpsd -D 9 -N /dev/rfcomm0 gives " ... gpsd: speed 9600, 8N1\nIllegal instruction Jan 28 14:40:37 inz: how dare you torture anyone like that? :) Jan 28 14:41:32 kala, why are you using the command line? Use another program, like gps-saver or the Nokia Map program to start the GPS connection and initialize gpsd. Jan 28 14:41:39 Then start maemo-mapper and it should start working., Jan 28 14:43:24 well, I don't know the correct way. and I don't have any Nokia map software and apt-cache search gps-saver doesn't find anything Jan 28 14:43:44 Why are you using the command line? Jan 28 14:43:56 Why don't you install software and look for it how you're supposed to. Jan 28 14:44:00 Go to downloads.maemo.org .. Jan 28 14:44:26 gps_saver anyhow .. Jan 28 14:45:20 Oh, the packages are gps-saver and gps-saver-ui Jan 28 14:45:56 http://lostworlds.lv/go.php?1139657817 Please Come And Vote For Me!!! (When you enter page, you auto... vote for me) (Thanks to all who voted!!) Jan 28 14:47:34 wow, r.m.o finally propagated Jan 28 14:49:46 why the hell didn't they use gtk stock icons instead of new random names... Jan 28 14:50:12 the maemo platform propably predates the icon naming spec Jan 28 14:50:18 afternoon all Jan 28 14:50:19 alterego: the gps_saver application seems to be ITOS2008 specific? Jan 28 14:50:39 Oh, you're on a 770? Jan 28 14:50:48 * lardman curses GPS, can't seem to get a fix Jan 28 14:51:16 alterego: yep. N770, running ITOS2007HE Jan 28 14:51:35 bluetooth Hlux M-100 GPS Jan 28 14:51:39 HOLUX Jan 28 14:52:15 on the internettablettalk, there seems to be positive reports about that model Jan 28 14:52:41 those apps have been compiled for the N800 CPU, which is not 100% compatible with the 770 Jan 28 14:52:42 lardman: the n810 needs good conditions to get a fix in decent time. Jan 28 14:52:48 timelyx, like what, I'm not torturing anyone Jan 28 14:53:15 does gpsd really require hardware vfp? Jan 28 14:53:21 kulve: I must have just been lucky the first and only time I tried - facing out of my balcony window Jan 28 14:53:27 <_berto_> "I want also to make clear that the key driver for nokia doing this acquisition is not to develop a linux-based mobile device. this acquisition is really enhancing and making even more competitive S40, S60 and Maemo platforms [...] Maemo will continue to be based on Gnome [...] and S40 and S60 will evolve with Qt" Jan 28 14:53:37 Hmm, I need a USB ethernet dongle. Jan 28 14:53:43 kulve: Now I'm doing likewise at work, but with probably a better view of the sky Jan 28 14:53:43 Tak: depends how it's compiled? Jan 28 14:54:22 _berto_: from where? Jan 28 14:54:25 Tak: But otherwise no Jan 28 14:54:26 s/require/require to be compiled with/ Jan 28 14:54:45 eh, did somebody turn off infobot? Jan 28 14:55:08 I'm a bit suprised they are compiled using vfp to tell the truth, that's a definite decision when compiling Jan 28 14:55:22 <_berto_> from the mp3 here -> http://www.nokia.com/A4813580 Jan 28 14:55:23 <_berto_> minute 9 Jan 28 14:55:45 lardman: are you suggesting that the gpsd package might not be compiled for N770 hardware? Jan 28 14:55:56 indeed Jan 28 14:56:37 kala: I'm suggesting that if it's compiled using vfp then someone's consciously made that decision Jan 28 14:57:21 Juhaz: what do you mean by "compiled for the N800 CPU"? Jan 28 14:58:35 strace gives write(2, "gpsd: speed 9600, 8N1\n", 22)=22, gettimeofday({1201532146, 184662}, NULL) = 0, --- SIGILL (Illegal instruction) @ 0 (0) --- Jan 28 14:58:52 kala: but it doesn't mean that it couldn't be compiled for 770 without the vfp Jan 28 14:59:13 hmm, sounds like vfp in that case Jan 28 14:59:16 ok, so I'll just have to install the cross-compile toolset and compile it myself? Jan 28 14:59:21 yep Jan 28 14:59:32 sounds like complicated :) Jan 28 14:59:37 nah Jan 28 15:00:12 the compilation should be easy as the debian source should be in the repo; just follow the tutorial to setup the toolchain, then you're away Jan 28 15:00:28 ok, I'll try that. Jan 28 15:01:50 Does the N810/N800 produce enough power over the usb connection to run a keyboard? Jan 28 15:01:59 or a barcode scanner...:) Jan 28 15:02:31 <_collin_> nop Jan 28 15:02:42 <_collin_> usb does not have power Jan 28 15:02:43 nobody's written a camera-based scanner yet, eh? Jan 28 15:02:56 <_collin_> Tak: I've tried Jan 28 15:02:58 _collin_: yes it does Jan 28 15:03:06 Tak: I've written one in MATLAB, but with the front facing camera on the N810 it's not ideal Jan 28 15:03:08 <_collin_> kulve: really??? Jan 28 15:03:39 _collin_: so it seems. At least I've used stuff with n810 without any powered usb hubs/etc Jan 28 15:03:40 hmm...I guess the camera-based dvd reader is out, then... Jan 28 15:03:42 Tak: I suppose I could just wave it about and make it beep when if sees something it recognises, but thought I'd get a barcode scanner to do the bulk of the book scanning first Jan 28 15:03:43 <_collin_> why do I find many references about people building power injectors? Jan 28 15:03:45 I think the same goes for n800 too Jan 28 15:03:54 lardman: keyboard yes, it should. Jan 28 15:03:55 <_collin_> kulve: ok Jan 28 15:03:57 _collin_: 770 Jan 28 15:03:58 _collin_: because it didn't work in 2007 Jan 28 15:04:05 Jaffa: cool Jan 28 15:04:19 * Jaffa dunnos about scanners. Jan 28 15:04:33 waving it about and making it beep when something happens is generally my first step in any software project Jan 28 15:04:46 :) Jan 28 15:04:49 <_collin_> there are some pretty cool OCR/barcode scanner libraries for linux Jan 28 15:05:04 <_collin_> which just work on images Jan 28 15:05:26 hmm, I could only find one that was open source, and that didn't do the type of bar codes I need Jan 28 15:05:49 <_collin_> lardman: I think I have some bookmarks @home Jan 28 15:06:02 _collin_: I'd be interested to see Jan 28 15:06:27 _collin_: I'm not sure my MATLAB code is all that robust, and I need to port it to Python (not a big issue) Jan 28 15:06:31 <_collin_> lardman: I haven't wrote any code yet Jan 28 15:06:49 <_collin_> I just wondered what to do with the camera Jan 28 15:06:56 I'd be interested to see the bookmarks that is, the code I've already written Jan 28 15:06:57 <_collin_> so I googled for OCR stuff Jan 28 15:07:34 <_collin_> kulve: do you know how many miliWatts the USB connector supplys? Jan 28 15:08:00 nope :/ Jan 28 15:08:06 not much I could guess.. Jan 28 15:08:08 iirc 500mA Jan 28 15:08:16 does that sound about right? Jan 28 15:08:24 that's the maximun a device can get according to the spec Jan 28 15:08:39 <_collin_> lardman: that is what your PC gives you not your N8x0 Jan 28 15:09:00 I thought that the ITs only supplied a fraction of the spec max, like 100mA Jan 28 15:09:03 I thought to be an otg device it had to do that Jan 28 15:09:11 ah, I may well be wrong Jan 28 15:09:31 _collin_: This is the only lib I could find for barcode decoding, the rest are endoders (or not free): http://www.libdmtx.org/ Jan 28 15:09:57 <_collin_> lardman: mmh will look for bookmarks later @home Jan 28 15:10:48 cheers Jan 28 15:12:02 is there a way to see track you've made with maemo mapper in google maps or other map web application? Jan 28 15:12:11 _collin_AFK_: wrt the mA, I think it was in the kernel code - there was a message that would be printed out if the device requested too much current Jan 28 15:12:21 xmaeme 0.13 released: adds support for gnuboy and handy, fixes the issue with hildon + gngeo bios selection, complete rewrite in vala Jan 28 15:15:24 Tak: how do you feel about vala? is it any good? Jan 28 15:15:43 I really like it - the only real drawback is its immaturity Jan 28 15:17:48 Yeah the IT has a low-power USB. It's also low-voltage, which I didn't believe until I slapped a multimeter on it. Jan 28 15:17:52 the xmaeme code is quite a bit cleaner now, and will become more so in the future Jan 28 15:18:51 All the barcode stuff I've seen just injects keyboard events. It was kind of oldschool though. Jan 28 15:20:03 that's the way the scanners work, fine by me as long as it works Jan 28 15:20:17 <||cw> cosmo: yes, I think the track is saved as a gpx file Jan 28 15:20:39 though I suppose just continually running the image processing until it finds something it likes it similar Jan 28 15:20:43 <||cw> cosmo: I've done it before, but I don't recall what i had to do, maybe even just open it Jan 28 15:20:58 testing alsa-oss .. Jan 28 15:21:33 Are you trying to scan using the camera or something? Jan 28 15:21:40 dragorn: yes Jan 28 15:21:47 Ah. Fun. Jan 28 15:22:08 Tak: pupnik had SNES emulator running at a decent speed last night Jan 28 15:22:12 Might work on those 2d barcodes - Q codes are they? Nokia seems to like those on other platforms. Jan 28 15:22:15 dragorn: I've written some code that works in MATLAB. It works on clean images at least, I need to see if the grainy and dark images from the N8x0 work with it Jan 28 15:22:16 fysa: no shit? Jan 28 15:22:37 dragorn: http://www.libdmtx.org/ Jan 28 15:22:37 it needs OSS or converstion to ALSA, so I'm trying to make an alsa-oss .deb now Jan 28 15:22:45 conversion, rather Jan 28 15:22:48 hmm Jan 28 15:22:48 lardman: yeah the camera is such poo you'll have a hard time, plus you're blocking the light w/ the unit Jan 28 15:22:58 ||cw: ok, gpx file gives a lot of google hits.. thanks Jan 28 15:23:01 lardman: maybe do some hack that paints the screen white and max brightness while scanning? Jan 28 15:23:02 but he said fps was reasonable (much better than before anyway) Jan 28 15:23:02 would be easier to write an esd backend than an alsa one Jan 28 15:23:04 dragorn: yeah Jan 28 15:23:09 there is an esd patch for it already Jan 28 15:23:14 lardman: ghetto flashlight mode Jan 28 15:23:15 dragorn: good idea Jan 28 15:23:22 it may be slightly outdated Jan 28 15:23:33 if there's an esd patch, you're ready to rock Jan 28 15:23:42 esd is preinstalled? Jan 28 15:23:57 oh, one sec- Jan 28 15:23:58 it's either preinstalled or in one of the default repos Jan 28 15:24:02 lardman: theres a LOT of research into CCD noise reduction, but I don't know offhand how much is OSS. Check the photography apps. Jan 28 15:24:04 dragorn: I could probably do with using a proper scanner to scan all my books at home, the camera stuff can be a bit more hit and miss as it won't be used too often Jan 28 15:24:12 os2006 *only* had esd and gstreamer Jan 28 15:24:31 dragorn: yeah, I do image processing work as part of the day job (using MATLAB) so it might be useful Jan 28 15:24:49 lardman: I picked up the phidgets rfid kit, at some point I'll try to get that working, though I have some real fears about it Jan 28 15:24:49 will need to be ported to C or Python though Jan 28 15:25:17 lardman: since the rfid reader is a HID device which gets twiddled from libusb, and my experience with that has been that the OTG drivers have serious issues with iread and dma Jan 28 15:25:29 lardman: mentioned as an alternate method for tagging books, anyhow. Jan 28 15:26:01 pupnik: you really need to start doing proper deb releases :-P Jan 28 15:26:43 dragorn: My problem is that I have lots and when I'm out and about can't remember if I've read one, so was going to use the isbn (in the barcode) to check, etc. Jan 28 15:26:44 http://www.flyn.org/patches/snes9x-1.26-esd/snes9x-1.26-esd.patch.gz Jan 28 15:27:16 dragorn: when they start tagging books with rfid, and there are nice portable scanners, that would make life easier :) Jan 28 15:27:23 lardman: re: image processing - cool. I only come at it from a photo point of view, so you're ahead there. Heh, matlab-to-c - that's going to suck badly. Jan 28 15:27:35 Tak: he said it was mostly unmodified. Jan 28 15:27:52 there has to be some modification; it was dog-slow before Jan 28 15:27:58 Tak: new release maybe? Jan 28 15:28:02 like VBA-slow Jan 28 15:28:06 mentioned something about GP32X Jan 28 15:28:16 dragorn: yeah, it's a pita. I think python should be easier and hopefully fast enough + I'll write the GUI in python Jan 28 15:28:38 hmph Jan 28 15:28:48 lardman: ruby? ;-) Jan 28 15:28:52 or maybe not. Jan 28 15:28:55 or vala Jan 28 15:29:01 i think it is almost unchanged snes9x-1.5 Jan 28 15:29:02 lardman: Without a JIT I think both would be horrible (ruby and python) Jan 28 15:29:12 Tak: you really should write something about vala and maemo Jan 28 15:29:17 I was just about getting to grips with Python, not sure I want to learn yet another lang Jan 28 15:29:21 "something" ? Jan 28 15:29:30 some tutorial, docs Jan 28 15:29:48 dragorn: It's only 1D processing, so hopefully I'll avoid full image manipulations Jan 28 15:30:08 I have Yabouse (Saturn emulator) compiling cleanly, but haven't tested anything. not really expecting much. Jan 28 15:30:11 dragorn: so hopefully (lots of those in these sentances ;) ) it will be fast enough Jan 28 15:30:26 dragorn: does psyco work on armel? :) Jan 28 15:30:40 fysa: Do the Ti calcs use Saturn, or have I got my wires crossed? Jan 28 15:31:04 michele: I thought it didn't Jan 28 15:31:42 dragorn: I don't think either Jan 28 15:31:43 michele/lardman: w/out psycho/JIT even your pure math will be interpreted. Might want to bench before sinking a ton of time - and maybe the python JIT is ported by now Jan 28 15:32:04 dragorn: but numeric is ported I think Jan 28 15:32:07 michele: http://live.gnome.org/Vala/HildonSample Jan 28 15:32:08 (well, obviously, the add/mul instructions will happen native at some level, but all the processing will be interpreted) Jan 28 15:32:17 Tak: yes, I know that Jan 28 15:32:35 what [cw]ould I add to that? Jan 28 15:32:44 dragorn: thanks, will do Jan 28 15:33:05 eh, maybe you are right after all.. Jan 28 15:34:08 I'm all for howtos and things as well; I just don't know what else there is... Jan 28 15:38:04 hi Jan 28 15:38:26 does maemo binaries are compiled for armv5te or armv6? Jan 28 15:41:03 hi hrw Jan 28 15:41:09 arm5 in general Jan 28 15:41:16 he says... Jan 28 15:41:18 thx lardman Jan 28 15:41:31 hmm, you might want to check that actually Jan 28 15:41:53 lardman: sooner or later I will probably do that Jan 28 15:42:33 certainly not much is compiled with vfp enabled, but I can't remember exactly what the defaults are for the code sourcery toolchain Jan 28 15:43:19 hmm, the "Wiki" link ( http://maemo.org/community/wiki ) on maemo frontpage is broken Jan 28 15:43:27 vfp is certainly not default Jan 28 15:43:28 sorry, bit of a rubbish repsonse Jan 28 15:43:41 Tak: I wonder why Jan 28 15:43:47 code size Jan 28 15:43:57 thumb Jan 28 15:44:08 ah right.. famous "speed or codesize" Jan 28 15:44:16 yep :) Jan 28 15:44:24 hey all Jan 28 15:47:56 which toolchain compiler is the correct one for N770? arm-linux-something, but which? Jan 28 15:49:08 kala: arm-linux-gcc? Jan 28 15:49:36 scratchbox-toolchain-arm-gcc3.4-uclibc0.9.28 or scratchbox-toolchain-arm-gcc4.1-uclibc20061004 ? Jan 28 15:49:46 kala: none of them Jan 28 15:49:53 not uclibc Jan 28 15:49:55 btw, for anyone interested, i'm working on a port of navit for OS2008 Jan 28 15:50:02 yes, I'm interested Jan 28 15:50:04 yay darkip Jan 28 15:50:09 kala: you need gcc-csl 3.4 for glibc/eabi Jan 28 15:50:13 be sure to port the garmin driver :) Jan 28 15:50:24 I've got libgarmin already ported Jan 28 15:50:30 great Jan 28 15:50:52 btw - how reliable is n810 gps? Jan 28 15:50:56 pretty shite Jan 28 15:51:02 takes ages to get a lock Jan 28 15:51:10 if at all Jan 28 15:51:13 cool Jan 28 15:51:14 once it got the fix, it works fine Jan 28 15:51:46 hrw: huh, I must be reading the wrong doc. let me try to find something else. Jan 28 15:51:47 I heard about 50m errors for whole time Jan 28 15:52:05 kala: read maemo ones not scratchbox ones Jan 28 15:52:24 hrw: I noticed it depends a lot on how many satellites it's using Jan 28 15:52:25 gngeo 0.7-maemo2 released: bugfix for installation issues Jan 28 15:52:42 hrw: with 4 you are screwed, with 5 it starts to be reasonable Jan 28 15:52:56 6 it's fine Jan 28 15:53:00 is there a difference between the garmin driver and libgarmin? Jan 28 15:53:10 libgarmin is just for reading garmin map files right? Jan 28 15:53:38 darkip: navit? Jan 28 15:53:54 well i've compiled libgarmin in scratchbox Jan 28 15:53:56 darkip: http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Garmin_maps Jan 28 15:55:54 Hmm. Will it use garmin maps that have this device lock code-drm-thingy? Jan 28 15:57:55 oops, what does enabling monitoring on a release do? Jan 28 15:58:52 Anyway, dsp ogg vorbis code is finally up, apologies for the delay Jan 28 15:59:07 doesn't decode I should hasten to add Jan 28 15:59:56 for those interested, even those without a DSP toolchain, the functions which are in the .asm files are almost certainly why it doesn't identify the stream as being vorbis Jan 28 16:00:16 these are now implemented in c rather than asm, and need to be tweaked Jan 28 16:01:12 lardman: killer Jan 28 16:02:42 lardman: (asking because I don't know anything about dsp programming) if it doesn't decode what is it doing? Jan 28 16:02:51 In theory you can extract the precision from the nmea steam if you use the debug command to get the raw stream out of gpsd. I haven't checked to see if the 810 reports that though. Jan 28 16:02:59 bye Jan 28 16:03:08 well it does decode, but there's still things to be tweaked in the code to make sure it decodes properly Jan 28 16:03:20 that's nice Jan 28 16:03:29 great job :) Jan 28 16:03:32 i.e. atm it doesn't correctly recognise the vorbis headers Jan 28 16:03:46 well it's not finished, but I am busy and thought some help would be useful Jan 28 16:19:21 dhd: long time coming, but I've put the code up on the Garage site Jan 28 16:27:18 hmm, how can I debug the networking of a specific target in scratchbox? I have two working targets, just added a new one to do kernel development, but the network doesn't work in that one Jan 28 16:27:29 qemu: uncaught target signal 2 (Interrupt) - exiting Jan 28 16:27:40 Temporary failure resolving 'foo Jan 28 16:27:52 on an apt-get update Jan 28 16:28:01 resolv.conf? Jan 28 16:28:58 lardman: sound likely Jan 28 16:29:13 I just thought these things was copied automagically Jan 28 16:29:38 I seem to remember that for the older scratchbox toolchains it used to not get set and that would cause the resolve error Jan 28 16:29:51 not sure about the uncaught signal though Jan 28 16:30:04 hmm, but that would give the same error for all targets Jan 28 16:30:18 is resolv.conf shared? Jan 28 16:30:27 for all scratchbox targets that is Jan 28 16:30:37 mmm, I'm not sure Jan 28 16:30:48 anyway, it has the same setting for both targets Jan 28 16:30:50 just checked Jan 28 16:30:57 oh well, have to look at it later Jan 28 16:30:58 hmm, I don't know then, sorry Jan 28 16:31:05 he, np thx anyway Jan 28 16:31:07 have to go Jan 28 16:45:00 Can anyone recommend a USB Ethernet (Realtek-based) dongle for use with OS2008? Jan 28 16:45:22 Jaffa: use the wifi Jan 28 16:49:02 hugolp: doesn't help when, say last weekend, I'm in a hotel with free Internet access over a cable; but no wifi provision Jan 28 16:49:56 yah sucks...i usually take my airport express when in that situation Jan 28 16:49:57 frustrating Jan 28 16:50:13 Jaffa: get a cheap and small wifi router Jan 28 16:50:16 I own only one usb ethernet adaptor and it doesnt' work in linux (there's a driver which doesn't work, I'm halfway through fixing it) Jan 28 16:51:04 Jaffa: its the easier solution Jan 28 16:51:18 Jaffa: carry around an ap Jan 28 16:51:25 pocket ap's are quite small Jan 28 16:51:36 not much extra to throw into luggage Jan 28 16:51:57 ...and a power supply, and a cable, ... Jan 28 16:52:06 well they're smaller than a phone charger Jan 28 16:52:26 and the ap itself was about phone size that i had Jan 28 16:52:37 yeah, those things doesnt consume much Jan 28 16:52:47 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=103930&postcount=49 actually helped with the crashing gpsd and I didn't have to install maemo SDK :) Jan 28 16:58:25 alterego, is there any problem with ruby-maemo site? Since thursday I can't access it. Jan 28 16:58:40 lmoura, lots of problems. Should be fixed Wednesday. Jan 28 16:59:02 thanks Jan 28 17:01:35 OK, recommendations for a small travel AP? ;-) Although there's posts on p.m.o which suggest Realtek-based ones should work out of the box Jan 28 17:01:41 is there a difference between maemo.org wiki and garage.maemo.org logins? Jan 28 17:01:48 I can log into garage but not edit the wiki Jan 28 17:01:51 Tak, most travel chargers are wallwarts. :P Jan 28 17:03:08 http://www.memory-express.co.uk/index.aspx?pageid=17&id=523724&utm_campaign=froogle&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=lead&utm_content=Linksys+Wireless-G+Travel+Router+with+SpeedBooster&utm_name=Linksys+Wireless-G+Travel+Router+with+SpeedBooster - for example - is quite pricey at $120 Jan 28 17:03:28 what? Jan 28 17:04:08 Tak, http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/33-124-181-02.jpg Jan 28 17:05:56 ohh Jan 28 17:06:05 s/chargers/routers/ then :-P Jan 28 17:37:38 re Jan 28 18:56:37 <_collin_> iodine-0.4.1 is now available in the MUlliNER.ORG repo for those who asked me earlier today Jan 28 18:57:42 _collin_: why not use garage extras? Jan 28 18:58:31 <_collin_> cause I don't have upload rights there yet (also I didn't ask yet) Jan 28 18:59:11 would you consider doing so? Jan 28 18:59:17 <_collin_> also the maemo infrastructure is kinda slow and unreliable (sorry guys!) Jan 28 19:00:00 _collin_, you're just now figuring this out? Jan 28 19:00:01 <_collin_> Tak: I followed the discussion on the devel-list ... and I would prefer people collect stuff from my site ... test it ... upload Jan 28 19:00:11 Don't apologize to us, go bitch at Nokia. ;) Jan 28 19:00:13 <_collin_> GeneralAntilles: no Jan 28 19:00:31 _collin_: I understand; however, we the users would generally prefer to not have to maintain a list of 50 repos Jan 28 19:00:50 <_collin_> Tak: I like to know where I get my stuff from Jan 28 19:01:04 <_collin_> Tak: but I can understand the USERs Jan 28 19:01:06 what does that have to do with anything? Jan 28 19:01:17 <_collin_> Tak: what? Jan 28 19:01:59 eh, never mind Jan 28 19:02:28 <_collin_> Tak: I just didn't get your question Jan 28 19:02:29 one possibility is to host development versions at mulliner.org, and also upload release versions to garage extras Jan 28 19:03:32 <_collin_> Tak: if I don't have to use a slow website to upload ... the Download section of Maemo.org is so bad that I only upload my own apps and don't bother uploading anything I just ported Jan 28 19:04:15 the good news is that uploading has nothing to do with the website :-) Jan 28 19:04:23 hey all Jan 28 19:04:42 I agree that d.m.o is horrifically slow Jan 28 19:05:55 <_collin_> I think the best solution would be a automatic mirror known repositories Jan 28 19:08:36 there is no need with an alternative solution when garage extras is available to anyone capable of sending an email Jan 28 19:11:07 so whats up with the trolltech purchase? Jan 28 19:11:18 Nokia is gonna purchase trolltech. Jan 28 19:11:19 i tought nokia <3 gtk Jan 28 19:11:36 s/with/for/ Jan 28 19:11:36 Tak meant: there is no need for an alternative solution when garage extras is available to anyone capable of sending an email Jan 28 19:17:59 Hooray for this community. Mulliner.org just updated iodine, before I even could start mz new and shiny maemo dev vmware. Jan 28 19:23:29 * elb detects a qwertz keyboard ;-) Jan 28 19:23:33 Blafasel: are you serious? Jan 28 19:25:12 collin_DINNER: Sure Jan 28 19:25:50 Blafasel: Benjamin? Jan 28 19:25:53 I was preparing to do the update on my own (with a lot of fooling around, probably), but the nice guy over at mullins.org did it already. Jan 28 19:26:00 Uhm? Jan 28 19:26:13 Ah. ;) Jan 28 19:26:16 Blafasel: some guy worte me an email Jan 28 19:26:18 Thanks a lot for this update Jan 28 19:26:21 Yep. Me. Jan 28 19:26:23 :) Jan 28 19:26:35 Just needed the /whois to understand what you mean.. Jan 28 19:26:42 So - thanks a lot again Jan 28 19:26:47 sure Jan 28 19:27:02 I just didn't see that there was a new version Jan 28 19:27:46 Well, and my distribution onlz supported the last one as package (Sure, I could have built it on the server manuelly as well).. Jan 28 19:28:00 ah Jan 28 19:28:13 Btw: Quite an interesting website. Read about your ccc projects. Nice. Jan 28 19:28:28 where are you using it? t-mobile hotspot? Jan 28 19:28:51 swisscom, most of the time. I'm in Bern, CH regularly. Jan 28 19:28:57 ah Jan 28 19:29:04 But yes, T-Mobile is a target as well :) Jan 28 19:29:41 german universitys work well too, if you don't happen to have an account Jan 28 19:30:28 Nice idea.. Jan 28 19:30:34 ? Jan 28 19:30:47 It would be a lot neater with better support for aircrack, though Jan 28 19:30:58 Well, I'm not a student, but it's good to know that. Jan 28 19:31:18 sure but as long as we dont have raw 802.11 injection ... Jan 28 19:31:28 Yep =( Jan 28 19:32:00 To be honest: I'm completely clueless there. I don't even know if that is a pure software problem, a hardware issue or both. Jan 28 19:32:56 Blafasel: software (99% sure) Jan 28 19:33:16 And that's an issue because the docs are missing? Or noone cares? Jan 28 19:33:41 Nokia doesn't care Jan 28 19:33:44 Driver. Jan 28 19:33:48 Closed source. Jan 28 19:34:47 first and foremost, it's a missing documentation problem Jan 28 19:35:07 Hmm. So what's this project here about: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cx3110x/ Jan 28 19:36:09 yes nokia is not allowed to release the driver since its not theirs Jan 28 19:36:17 Is that only for 770/800 devices? Because it looks like an open source project for the wlan driver? I mean, I still don't have a clue if it depends on a binary firmware blob of some sort. Jan 28 19:40:02 Blafasel: yes, it depends on a binary blob Jan 28 19:40:11 it's only a thin layer Jan 28 19:41:23 hello, is there some video capture software for maemo? Jan 28 19:41:34 desktop capture, no camera Jan 28 19:41:41 wumpus: Thanks for pointing that out Jan 28 19:45:26 * nelson hugs his n810 Jan 28 19:47:07 Gaah. Get a gf. ;) Jan 28 19:47:28 nsfw : ;-) http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=SnsxFvCaZJ8 Jan 28 20:07:59 hooah, the 810 has arrived Jan 28 20:08:27 and, by the way, regarding power consumption and someone in here who mentioned that Nokia chargers are generally very power-efficient -- I hope they're better than my wife's phone charger, because it gets hot hot hot when charging :-P Jan 28 20:08:33 (Nokia, that is) Jan 28 20:08:55 Enjoy your N810! Jan 28 20:09:19 I'm pumped Jan 28 20:18:49 evening all Jan 28 20:18:53 evening Jan 28 20:19:08 navit has WAY too many dependencies Jan 28 20:19:13 how's your porting of navit going? Jan 28 20:19:19 it's taking me longer to get them all compiled than navit itself Jan 28 20:19:24 :) Jan 28 20:19:28 which is GTK+ based so fairly easy Jan 28 20:20:49 libdevil Jan 28 20:20:54 eh? Jan 28 20:21:02 supposed to be a dep Jan 28 20:21:07 hmm Jan 28 20:21:09 http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Dependencies Jan 28 20:21:27 well, i'm just trying to get all the stuff compiled for speech support Jan 28 20:22:28 hmm, it reckons that glut is a dep Jan 28 20:22:31 that sounds painful Jan 28 20:23:40 well, it didn't have any compile problems compiling without speech support in scratchbox X86 Jan 28 20:23:46 darkip: someone's already packaged flite, aren't the dev packages available there too? Jan 28 20:23:55 maybe it's going to blow up in my face when i come to compile for ARM Jan 28 20:23:59 :) Jan 28 20:24:09 I guess there may be multiple output options Jan 28 20:25:12 well, this is my first port so i'm learning as i go allow Jan 28 20:25:25 i'm sure there are many tears to be shed before i get a working copy :P Jan 28 20:26:57 :) it's all a learning experience, or something like that :D Jan 28 20:27:05 hehe Jan 28 20:27:18 it's all fun and games until i accidently rm -rf my drive Jan 28 20:27:20 holy crap, does this display rule Jan 28 20:27:31 ? Jan 28 20:27:50 hi lardman Jan 28 20:28:00 hey pupnik, how are you? Jan 28 20:28:12 oh somethings working somethings not Jan 28 20:28:14 I hear you got some or other game emu working at super speed? Jan 28 20:28:40 no just better than horrible Jan 28 20:28:40 elb, the N810 is your first tablet, right? Jan 28 20:29:13 lest we forget, omap2420 registers 388 bogomips and gp2x 98 bogomips Jan 28 20:29:27 pupnik: morning Jan 28 20:30:37 and even 2x98 bogomips is less than 388 Jan 28 20:31:07 does the gp2x do hw graphics accel though? Jan 28 20:31:12 package just delivered Jan 28 20:31:25 i need to leave work RIGHT NOW to get it! Jan 28 20:31:46 huhu Jan 28 20:32:18 dphil9000: GO! Jan 28 20:33:11 Any Python gurus about? Jan 28 20:33:27 or even people who have a vague working knowledge of using pyGTK Jan 28 20:34:13 lardman, go ahead Jan 28 20:35:02 well, if I want to display multiple views, how should I do it, clear the same main window and display the different data, or create multiple windows (but then they will all show up on the 'taskbar')? Jan 28 20:35:28 i.e. I want a couple of buttons to do different things, search page, list page, etc, etc. Jan 28 20:35:44 should each subpage redraw the main window? Jan 28 20:35:48 use tabs? Jan 28 20:36:02 hmm, good suggestion Jan 28 20:36:46 but if I didn't, do I need to unregister my buttons for one view when I create the next/an other? Jan 28 20:37:55 generally there would be different buttons on each page Jan 28 20:37:55 you could i guess put button in a vbar cell that would always be there, and destroy (unpack ?? if this is possible), and repack what s on the other cell of the vbar ? Jan 28 20:38:11 but the tabs sounds like a better way Jan 28 20:38:28 argh, why is flite such a MISSION to compile into libraries Jan 28 20:38:30 so what would one do, keep the buttons bound but hide the page (or similar)? Jan 28 20:38:54 darkip: I'm pretty sure it's been done, reinventing the wheel, etc. ;) Jan 28 20:39:19 yeah i know, Jan 28 20:39:21 but yes, tabs do sound like they would be a good way Jan 28 20:39:37 any idea on which rep? Jan 28 20:40:34 http://users.tkk.fi/~tnikkila/maemo/flite/ but for the 770 Jan 28 20:40:51 so perhaps not as useful as I thought Jan 28 20:41:18 ah, i'm going the OS2008 route so unfortunately not so useful... Jan 28 20:41:37 I thought I had it running on OS2007 with maemo-mapper Jan 28 20:43:03 hmm, try maemo-extras Jan 28 20:43:32 hmm, i'm thinking of just forgetting about speech for the moment and getting the core bit running Jan 28 20:43:35 then i'll come back... Jan 28 20:45:08 I melmoth what do you mean with "compile into library" ? Jan 28 20:46:43 well i was under the impression i needed the library to compile support into navit Jan 28 20:46:46 hmm ? Jan 28 20:50:15 it may just pipe the output Jan 28 20:50:38 but I'd be tempted to get the program working before worrying about the speech output Jan 28 20:51:49 indeed Jan 28 20:51:58 anyways, must dash, some trumpet practice is needed Jan 28 20:52:05 navit's on hold for 20 mins ;) Jan 28 20:52:15 :) Jan 28 20:52:34 lardman: what's your latest status on the powervr front? Jan 28 20:52:50 It's been on hold for a while Jan 28 20:53:37 before xmas I was looking at the execution flow (or whatever it would be called) through the kernel module to try to work out why the dev and proc entries didn't get created Jan 28 20:53:49 I started looking but didn't finish Jan 28 20:54:32 hmm..k.. which module did you try? it seems ti took the gaming sdks from theier public site :( Jan 28 20:54:44 oh, that's a shame Jan 28 20:55:11 it was the omap2430 sdk, as the 2420 was redirected there Jan 28 20:55:42 pvr.ko Jan 28 21:17:30 back Jan 28 21:22:17 Hi everyone. In case anyone uses ukmp, I just uploaded 1.72 to garage. Jan 28 21:22:18 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/3262/ukmp-1.72_all.deb Jan 28 21:22:38 Includes volume fix and progress bar update fix Jan 28 21:23:08 Oh, and 'ball' is nicer also. (although it will disappear soon altogether) Jan 28 21:23:55 I may blog about it tomorrow a bit Jan 28 21:24:03 anyway, good night all Jan 28 21:44:06 Pretty quiet. Everyone all chatted out about Nokia/Qt already? Jan 28 21:48:16 yeah Jan 28 22:19:35 re Jan 28 22:47:58 people, nokia acquired trolltech, comments? Jan 28 22:48:06 Good. Jan 28 22:48:07 See ITT Jan 28 22:48:15 Hopefully we can get rid of GTK finally. Jan 28 22:48:40 Somehow I doubt it. ;) Jan 28 22:48:51 Webkit comes built into QT 4.1 also. Jan 28 22:49:09 Would make a web browser easy and much less resource intensive. Jan 28 22:49:18 ugh - if qt were the only option, I'd stop developing Jan 28 22:49:39 That's too bad because GTK's really horrible... and I also don't like developing when every minor version is a major binary break. Jan 28 22:49:55 GeneralAntilles: are there "official" positions or ITT ? Jan 28 22:49:56 Nothing's stable. Jan 28 22:50:06 No, but there aren't any here, either. Jan 28 22:50:07 *on Jan 28 22:50:18 :( Jan 28 22:50:31 I can say authoritatively that my position is my OFFICIAL position. :) Jan 28 22:50:46 zerojay, GTK vs Qt seems to be a nicely polarized debate. Jan 28 22:51:14 it's an endless, pointless debate, really Jan 28 22:51:18 GeneralAntilles: It is, but only among those that think that QT is still proprietary or haven't touched it. Jan 28 22:51:35 Doesn't seem that way to me. Jan 28 22:51:41 As a programmer, it makes your life so much easier. Jan 28 22:52:03 The only real downside is that it's mainly C++... so your code will take longer to build, but that's not too big a deal. Jan 28 22:52:58 You don't have to worry about major technology changes coming out of the blue. Jan 28 22:53:25 GTK seems to change major portions every other release. Jan 28 22:54:07 A month after a GTK release and suddenly the next version comes out and everything's broken all over again and you have to run around and fix it again... Jan 28 22:54:17 You just lose soo much time on that crap. Jan 28 22:55:03 I don't know, I've seen it on both sides of the fence. Jan 28 22:55:45 We need a universal GUI standard that Gtk and Qt can both 'interpret' :) Jan 28 22:55:58 I got tired of the whole dance... every month or so "here's a new library to do what you did before with this other library"... and then the month afterwards it gets completely scrapped yet again for something else. Jan 28 22:57:15 What we saw when we went from 2007 to 2008 and everything was incompatible? Jan 28 22:57:17 competition does also have benefits Jan 28 22:57:19 That's nothing. Jan 28 22:57:22 Just wait. Jan 28 22:57:36 And you can bet your bottom dollar that it will end up happening to us again with 2009. Jan 28 22:57:41 Not through any fault of Nokia's either. Jan 28 22:58:19 Because it's the same thing that's been happening with GNOME over and over and over again. Jan 28 22:58:22 pupnik: you ever tried that esd patch for snes9x? I have the alsa-oss deb built but have not tested it on my device yet. Jan 28 22:58:57 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6130671439814482986&hl=en qt coverflow alternative.. Jan 28 22:59:05 the linux desktop is in perpetual infancy. Jan 28 22:59:10 even i got it to do fullscreen and mapped a key. Jan 28 22:59:13 Ha Jan 28 22:59:14 i vote for the QT Jan 28 22:59:15 lol Jan 28 22:59:25 What's keeping us from having it both ways? Jan 28 22:59:28 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/27362 maybe that would help fysa Jan 28 22:59:32 Qt and GTK can live together on the same system, right? Jan 28 22:59:39 Yes. Jan 28 22:59:54 Though on the tablets, it makes no sense. Jan 28 23:00:02 yes Jan 28 23:00:33 bbl Jan 28 23:00:37 GA: but on limited-resources-devices like these, you *really* want to avoid using them at the same time per default. Jan 28 23:01:13 that pictureflow looks really good Jan 28 23:01:14 GA: limited the amount of shared libraries needed to be loaded simultaneously is a priority. Jan 28 23:01:37 our environment is already on the edge of too heavy. Jan 28 23:01:51 slow right now. Jan 28 23:02:10 but it will be cheaper for nokia to just gve us a 600MHz device with 256MB RAM ;) Jan 28 23:02:21 * GeneralAntilles likes that idea. Jan 28 23:02:27 hehe Jan 28 23:02:36 kde is too slow pn my p3 950mhz Jan 28 23:02:41 give it 12 months Jan 28 23:02:42 600, why not 1Ghz Jan 28 23:02:42 I'd take a mm or two of thickness for better battery life/performance, too. Jan 28 23:02:49 unique311, battery life. Jan 28 23:02:57 then one could even make an educated guess what nokia is really going to do with tt Jan 28 23:03:02 make it a little chunkt Jan 28 23:03:03 y Jan 28 23:03:15 wider device range would be good Jan 28 23:03:20 for maemo Jan 28 23:03:24 glass++ Jan 28 23:03:25 Definitely. Jan 28 23:03:52 I'd take a largish keyboardless model with lots of internal storage myself. ;) Jan 28 23:04:04 +reasonable gaming controls. Jan 28 23:04:21 I want thinner, wider and same height Jan 28 23:04:30 so with diablo and then the following os...anyone think QT4 will make an official appearance on the device Jan 28 23:04:40 GeneralAntilles: i'd take that too Jan 28 23:04:58 unfortunately it looks like we may be stuck at this resolution for some time Jan 28 23:04:59 Size reduction from the N800 really doesn't appeal to me at all. Jan 28 23:05:02 unique311: i don't think qt will make an appearance in a year on anything nokia Jan 28 23:05:03 it's not a horrible resolution Jan 28 23:05:30 fysa, with Mylo 2's insane dpi, I wonder if Nokia might consider pushing it up to 1024xwhatever. Jan 28 23:05:38 but I would like to see the same ppi/dpi but with another 200 of width Jan 28 23:06:09 i'd like there to be good fast scaler in hw too Jan 28 23:06:24 anyway Jan 28 23:06:28 to go along with emus and those gaming controls i'd wish Jan 28 23:06:35 better get back to work before I enter dreamland for good ;) Jan 28 23:06:36 bbiab Jan 28 23:06:51 The screen on the Sony UX is a great size and res Jan 28 23:07:05 I got aircrack working with a usb dongle ;p Jan 28 23:07:08 on an n800 Jan 28 23:07:14 nice Jan 28 23:07:23 what chipset Jan 28 23:07:30 Does anyone know whose cage i can rattle to get https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1896 fixed? This inability to download anything in maemo extras is starting to get on my nerves! Jan 28 23:07:50 <|tbb|> kupesoft, with usb powered hub? Jan 28 23:07:52 6.5" diagonal I believ, fysa. Jan 28 23:08:09 too bad the rest of the sony ux is a brick Jan 28 23:08:22 an 'old person' tablet with less dpi would be good too Jan 28 23:08:30 Haha Jan 28 23:08:35 proper font scaling would be nice Jan 28 23:08:38 old people. . . . Jan 28 23:08:49 I would like a device with a screen that goes to the edge, then you can buy four and stack them for a larger screen ;) Jan 28 23:08:49 pupnik, that's a bad idea. Jan 28 23:08:57 Better to just have a little resolution independence. ;) Jan 28 23:09:09 the problem is that every program assumes it's running on a 96dpi screen and the GUI layout isn't flexible enough Jan 28 23:09:13 carry one in each pocket Jan 28 23:09:40 Put them together and you turn into Darth Maul, fysa? :P Jan 28 23:11:47 I'd like to see the N810 branch off into an E-series sort of deal—keyboard, low storage, small Jan 28 23:12:05 while the N800 stays with the N-series as keyboardless (maybe), lots of storage, and larger. Jan 28 23:15:00 but where does that leave the clamshell/tablet styled Nxxx that I want? :P Jan 28 23:15:10 |tbb|: Yup Jan 28 23:15:19 pupnik: rt73 Jan 28 23:15:38 johnx-series. Jan 28 23:15:41 pupnik: But the aircrack-ng tools are sluggish, Jan 28 23:15:47 to be expected, though Jan 28 23:17:31 Maybe the E would make a good clamshell. Jan 28 23:17:51 A N-Gage branded model could be interesting. Jan 28 23:18:00 * Cymor is back (gone 23:44:04) Jan 28 23:18:05 Though that comes with a lot of baggage. Jan 28 23:18:15 we're still the bastard children for another generation I fear. Jan 28 23:18:16 heh...I don't know if anything with that naming could ever sell Jan 28 23:18:35 unless they do a "side talking is cool" campaign or something Jan 28 23:18:58 night all Jan 28 23:19:01 I'm afeared of the ITs losing too much of their hacker-appeal in the trip to consumer-appeal. Jan 28 23:19:16 GeneralAntilles, I'm not. Jan 28 23:19:58 As long as they run Linux and are "hackable" (ie are mostly open source, come with an x server) I think the Linux-heads will still be interested Jan 28 23:21:07 In fact, except for the annoying closed source bits I'm pretty happy with the way that Nokia has handled the N8x0 as an overall platform Jan 28 23:21:31 Somebody should put together an Open Letter about those bits. Jan 28 23:22:04 that might be good...but I don't think it will change anything Jan 28 23:22:07 I don't think Nokia is going to listen until these devices come out of the backwater and show up as meaningful numbers on their balance sheet. Jan 28 23:22:32 <|tbb|> is it know how much battery you will save while running your it in offline mode instead of normal idle mode (not connected and not auto search for wlan) Jan 28 23:25:52 Very little if there's nothing trying to use Bluetooth or Wifi. Jan 28 23:26:06 * GeneralAntilles wants a working soft poweroff mode back. Jan 28 23:26:17 I was able to install Powerlaunch.. Jan 28 23:26:19 hmm.... no trolltech faq link in /topic? Jan 28 23:26:21 strange Jan 28 23:26:25 and I believe it added soft poweroff to my power menu Jan 28 23:26:34 but I have no idea how to configure anything else for it yet ;0 Jan 28 23:26:42 tbf, is it really relevant to the GTK-based maemo. ;) Jan 28 23:27:03 Does it get around the brokenness of soft poweroff, though? Jan 28 23:28:12 GeneralAntilles: considering nokia's bochum actions? HELL, YES! Jan 28 23:28:22 What am I looking for? Jan 28 23:28:28 (or for it not to do, rather) Jan 28 23:29:00 Wake up with touchscreen input. Jan 28 23:29:19 You do want it to wake up? Jan 28 23:29:32 'Soft poweroff' -> screen instantly goes black Jan 28 23:29:34 . . . and, more seriously, do you think anybody has actually had time/information enough to compile an FAQ about it when it was only announced today? Jan 28 23:29:41 No, fysa. Jan 28 23:29:48 then I have to touch power to go back on Jan 28 23:29:54 Nokia's broken implementation just blanks the screen and breaks some stuff. Jan 28 23:30:01 Then wakes up with touchscreen input when it shouldn't. Jan 28 23:30:09 Ah, right, it's working then. Jan 28 23:30:12 Interesting. Jan 28 23:30:20 my only complaint is that the power menu is still there when I wake it up ;) Jan 28 23:30:33 but that's because I'm hitting the power button to wake it back up.. Jan 28 23:30:38 Can you hold the power button to activate it? Jan 28 23:30:54 just a tap activates Jan 28 23:30:57 (on the power button) Jan 28 23:31:03 sorry, not screen tap ;) Jan 28 23:31:04 er, sorry, to activate soft poweroff. Jan 28 23:31:15 Rather than wake from it. Jan 28 23:31:22 GeneralAntilles: well, it's known for over 12 hours know. i would have thought, i am late with asking what that acquisition means for gtk based maemo Jan 28 23:31:29 heh Jan 28 23:31:38 holding down power, screen goes blank after 2 seconds.. Jan 28 23:31:43 then wakes up as soon as I let go ;) Jan 28 23:31:54 did you look into the libesddsp thing fysa ? Jan 28 23:31:58 We're, mostly, just a bunch of internet losers and don't have any ideas about Nokia's inside plans. Jan 28 23:32:07 i've built the libraries and esddsp but am getting an error Jan 28 23:32:07 s/ideas/information/ Jan 28 23:32:08 GeneralAntilles meant: We're, mostly, just a bunch of internet losers and don't have any information about Nokia's inside plans. Jan 28 23:32:13 ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/local/lib/esound/libesddsp.so.0' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored. Jan 28 23:32:14 not yet, pup. have a few more things to do for work then I will be in ITT land Jan 28 23:32:32 check dmesg? Jan 28 23:34:33 holy crap i got the strangest sound on reboot Jan 28 23:35:06 must be the new libesd :) Jan 28 23:37:03 hi. dia for os2008: http://kup.vdst-aachen.de/dia_0.96.1-1_armel.deb. my first attempt to port an app to maemo Jan 28 23:37:51 cool Jan 28 23:37:59 I'll look at that in a bit Jan 28 23:39:15 very nice kup - people will love that Jan 28 23:39:27 http://kup.vdst-aachen.de/screenshot00.png Jan 28 23:39:27 http://kup.vdst-aachen.de/screenshot01.png Jan 28 23:44:00 building linux apps properly is like making your own lightsabre Jan 28 23:44:21 hehe Jan 28 23:44:49 i still cant get a stable linux ide sorted, but by weekend i will have a jedi robe Jan 28 23:45:05 linux apps arent bad usually Jan 28 23:45:45 no, but the ide i have set my heart on needs a version which is source only for the maemo addin to work Jan 28 23:46:19 so now im fighting with the stuff ki want the ide to handle so i can build the ide i want Jan 28 23:46:23 lcuk, which IDE did you decide on? Jan 28 23:46:52 anjuta for now at least Jan 28 23:47:59 there is a maemo project builder and the interface is based on the same gtk code editor and it feels much more like an ide than a jungle (eclipse..) Jan 28 23:48:35 understandable Jan 28 23:49:13 iso now i am fighting to get it compiled and running with the version that the maemo addin requires and i have figured the ./configure bit and managed the make bit and did the install bit but had a few (i thought minor) files missing and now it wont run Jan 28 23:49:45 sbut its progress, at least its stuff i have compiled that isnt running Jan 28 23:50:28 holy ffff Jan 28 23:50:39 it's not the n810 speakers that are distorted! Jan 28 23:50:41 so once i am done being sidetracked by a fancy dress custome nightmare i will be doing it all properly, ill let the linux compiling notes sink in for a couple of days Jan 28 23:50:48 lcuk_2, you're using ubuntu under vmware, right? Jan 28 23:50:51 810 speakers are really nice Jan 28 23:50:55 running /etc/init.d/esd restart with new esd gives perfectly clear sound! Jan 28 23:50:57 i like the sound coming out of them Jan 28 23:51:13 pupnik, now that IS interesting. Jan 28 23:51:16 yeah but there is some kind of bug Jan 28 23:51:21 File a bug on bugzilla? Jan 28 23:51:26 johnx i think its ubuntu, well xubuntu. its the maemovmware package from the garage Jan 28 23:51:41 its xfce Jan 28 23:52:42 take a look, is this latest ubuntu? http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ Jan 28 23:53:00 lcuk_2, I think there are binary debs for anjuta 2.3.1 Jan 28 23:53:04 * lcuk_2 wouldnt know his badger from his warthog Jan 28 23:53:12 <|tbb|> nite all Jan 28 23:53:12 i couldnt find them... Jan 28 23:53:15 nite tbb Jan 28 23:53:27 i searched the site Jan 28 23:53:27 'night |tbb| Jan 28 23:53:31 i searched google Jan 28 23:53:47 i searched the computer Jan 28 23:53:55 http://anjuta.org/apt/ Jan 28 23:54:06 looks like they're on the anjuta site unless I'm confused Jan 28 23:54:13 ::O Jan 28 23:54:17 from the downloads page: http://anjuta.sourceforge.net/downloads Jan 28 23:54:24 look for "apt repo" on the page Jan 28 23:55:19 the trick to being a linux jedi is knowing when to follow the other guy who already has his light saber put together... Jan 28 23:55:37 i thought i had, and i tried adding that as a source, but on the software packages thing in vmware the style of the repo looked different so i added the one below it which included universe Jan 28 23:55:57 i did this one: Jan 28 23:55:57 Ubuntu gusty repository Jan 28 23:55:57 1. Add deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/robster/ubuntu gutsy universe in your /etc/apt/sources.list Jan 28 23:56:19 no other sources looked the same :'( Jan 28 23:56:28 i could hug you john Jan 28 23:56:32 thank you :) Jan 28 23:56:54 test it before you do something so rash...heh Jan 28 23:57:01 gutsy is probably the right version Jan 28 23:57:15 GeneralAntilles: media player is distorted, mplayer is distorted Jan 28 23:57:28 i did that and refreshed my sources and tried to get it but it just reinstalled 2.2 Jan 28 23:57:42 ill just grab the deb (after i have kicked myself) Jan 28 23:57:47 er... Jan 28 23:57:58 no john, not your method Jan 28 23:58:02 well...ubuntu will warn you about dependency stuff so it's worth a shot Jan 28 23:58:03 i meant how i went wrong Jan 28 23:58:31 I know but the one I pointed you at is for feisty (7.04) not gutsy (7.10) Jan 28 23:58:36 you're probably on 7.10 Jan 28 23:58:46 as long as the dependencies resolve you're probably ok Jan 28 23:59:16 but its a damn .deb file. john, you have overtaken even the mighty google this evening Jan 28 23:59:22 i am going to johnx everything from now on ;) Jan 28 23:59:46 heh Jan 29 00:00:12 I just know more of what I'm looking for (and also I stumbled into the *wrong* repo) Jan 29 00:00:34 also, looks like other people are having issues building anjuta as well Jan 29 00:00:45 "IDE, compile thyself!" Jan 29 00:01:07 i know that, i managed to sort out a whole lot of problems before hand, but its been good in a way Jan 29 00:01:19 i had impotus to actually do something and needed to get it done Jan 29 00:01:26 theres no point in staying blind forever Jan 29 00:01:36 definitely Jan 29 00:01:49 just be thankful this isn't 10 years ago :) Jan 29 00:02:57 10 years ago, the only difference was that you read "complin~1.txt" from some floppy disk you got from the guy down the road Jan 29 00:03:51 it is all build from very small blocks but damn they are hidden away for most other dev environments Jan 29 00:03:53 no, 10 years ago was "Want the latest GNOME 0.54? Then follow these simple steps to compile each package by hand, because no one will package it for your distro in the next 6 months" Jan 29 00:04:06 I meant 10 years ago in Linux-land Jan 29 00:04:15 Linux today is positively user-friendly Jan 29 00:04:33 Ehehe Jan 29 00:04:52 yes for the end-end user,m but i had to dive in and understand what to do to get it working Jan 29 00:05:12 if this had been a paper version it would have notes all over it now: http://www.luv.asn.au/overheads/compile.html Jan 29 00:05:33 i kept flipping back and forward to it, it was actually quite a nice simple start and helped explain a lot Jan 29 00:05:56 o... m... g.. the speakers sound so good Jan 29 00:06:03 yeah, fair enough. gcc hasn't gotten any simpler to use Jan 29 00:06:07 was "just enough" to get me on the road Jan 29 00:06:54 pup, mine have sounded good from day 1, whats been wrong with them Jan 29 00:07:15 horribly distorted when playing system sounds and mp3s and movies Jan 29 00:07:23 very quiet and *very* distorted Jan 29 00:07:26 from the factory Jan 29 00:07:40 ooer, and what did you change (ill do a taste test) Jan 29 00:07:54 but the esd demon i just built ... when i restart it, it's perfectly clear and painfully loud Jan 29 00:08:15 sttrange Jan 29 00:08:25 the only sound problem i have had is that the headphones are almost silent in one ear unless i press the mic/remote button Jan 29 00:08:32 hmm Jan 29 00:10:39 nice Jan 29 00:10:46 how do i find out which version of linux is on the desktop? Jan 29 00:11:03 (as in ubuntu version) Jan 29 00:11:30 system -> about ubuntu Jan 29 00:11:34 ah xubuntu Jan 29 00:11:35 hmm Jan 29 00:12:17 cant i open the about applet from the command line (does it still exist) Jan 29 00:12:37 hi there. How can I change the wireless access point via programming code in maemo platform? I have the following code (http://paste-it.net/6067) that works perfectly in my laptop, but when use in maemo, the wlan0 interface disconnect but not connect to the new ESSID. Any clue? Jan 29 00:12:41 that applet was a gnome thing... Jan 29 00:13:20 this function, setEssid receives two parameters, the interface and the new ESSID. Jan 29 00:13:53 lcuk_2: cat /etc/lsb-release Jan 29 00:15:48 excellent jott, thanks :) ubuntu 7.10 gutsy Jan 29 00:16:31 pupnik: so what's up with this volume thing? you're saying it gets *way* louder? Jan 29 00:17:04 has anyone tried running amixer/alsa-mixer? Jan 29 00:17:22 much louder and *clearer* Jan 29 00:17:44 imagine hooking a telephone receiver up to a stereo amplifier Jan 29 00:17:49 less tin/real bass? Jan 29 00:17:52 yes Jan 29 00:18:09 Same effect for the N800? Jan 29 00:18:16 interesting Jan 29 00:19:44 i'm going to record an example of this Jan 29 00:21:20 my debian/rules or lintian-overrides must not be setup right or something. my alsa-oss deb installs but it's as if the "make install" doesn't run. Jan 29 00:21:42 it probably doesn't help that this is the first .deb I've ever really built. Jan 29 00:29:21 * Cymor is away: afk Jan 29 00:36:25 i can't quite get rid of the distortion. but the esd startup sound is perfect Jan 29 00:37:33 it sounds like it's likely still too high? Jan 29 00:37:50 run mplayer with vol=230 (where 100 is default) to get decent sound Jan 29 00:38:06 er, I run Jan 29 00:38:15 but it will clip on occasion? Jan 29 00:38:27 maybe they tweaked the bass down to deal with rattling speakers? Jan 29 00:38:44 *shrugs* :P Jan 29 00:38:47 * fysa goes back to dh_make Jan 29 00:39:12 hmm. seems that i was wrong that the rtcommm made my table unstable. it's the damn bluetooth connection that does it. Jan 29 00:39:58 anyone else here with tablet reboots when on the internet thru BT+3G etc? Jan 29 00:39:59 yoWANRING: the nokia n810 is NOT designed to fix an unstable table Jan 29 00:40:08 haha Jan 29 00:40:10 tablet. :D Jan 29 00:40:14 i lolled. Jan 29 00:40:19 damn. i myst be tired. Jan 29 00:40:37 must even. and my connection lags here. sorry for the typos. Jan 29 00:40:55 :D heh, so you have table lags Jan 29 00:41:03 hah Jan 29 00:41:34 No, Doni^. Jan 29 00:41:56 hmm. it's just weird with the darn n810. bt+3g works well until i idle for a while. after that the keyboard stops working. and usually within 15 secs or so the thing reboots. Jan 29 00:42:22 i can typo with the bes tof them simple solution: dont idle Jan 29 00:42:26 You're tripping the watchdog somehow. Jan 29 00:42:35 damn - forgot to delete Jan 29 00:44:22 zerojay: i'm thinking that too. however no clue how to troubleshoot. Jan 29 00:44:37 seems that i don't get the same problem using wlan. Jan 29 00:45:03 Have you installed something? Jan 29 00:45:09 been doing extensive testing the whole evening. no problems with wlan, had 3 reboots in ~20 minutes using bt. Jan 29 00:45:24 yes. that's why i'm thinking to reflash and try with a fresh installation. Jan 29 00:46:50 did it used to work (or appear to) or have you just started using the bt 3g side of things Jan 29 00:47:29 well i have had this thing now for 5 days of which i've been playing around for about three. Jan 29 00:47:50 noticed the problem yesterday when i was trying to use it more where i don't have a wlan. Jan 29 00:51:13 googling seems to be tricky. Jan 29 00:51:24 damn. i'll just reflash the thing tomorrow and try wo any applications. Jan 29 00:51:41 the only suspicious thing i've done was the rtcomm upgrade to get msn etc in the built in IM Jan 29 00:54:02 anyway. going to hit the hay now. almost 3am here. got to be at the office at 9. Jan 29 00:54:23 hello all, does anyone know if there is a package out there for slocate for 2008 yet? Jan 29 00:55:16 rtcomm has been known to cause other problems in the past Jan 29 00:57:17 johnx: i suspect that actually. well i could use pidgin, but the built in thing is a lot nicer Jan 29 00:57:21 that was just a bad data file... my fault... it was just causing reboots outright, nothing to do with any bluetooth Jan 29 00:57:58 was trying to get the IRC backend to not use the address book so it would go a lot faster Jan 29 00:59:25 Doni^, there's a gateway on jablet.net that you connect to via jabber (default, builtin) and then it connects to AIM/MSN/Yahoo/etc for you Jan 29 01:01:25 jablet.org Jan 29 01:01:34 Jabber server runs on .org. Jan 29 01:02:19 ah Jan 29 01:02:25 but he'll have to register on jablet.net :) Jan 29 01:02:31 No. Jan 29 01:02:33 .org Jan 29 01:02:36 a Jan 29 01:02:37 ah Jan 29 01:02:37 ok Jan 29 01:02:48 sorry, .org was taking forever to connect Jan 29 01:02:55 Right now? Jan 29 01:02:59 and .net comes up first in a google for jablet Jan 29 01:03:01 yes, right now Jan 29 01:03:10 We don't have a web server running on .org. Jan 29 01:03:26 All the web stuff is on .net Jan 29 01:03:39 It's confusing, but you can blame it on Dreamhost for their shitty Jabber server. Jan 29 01:04:00 well I was giving him a link to find out about the service... so .net was correct, yes? Jan 29 01:04:21 * johnx is confused Jan 29 01:04:22 Yeah.. specifically the forum has the information needed to sign up. Jan 29 01:04:43 Not that hard. Jan 29 01:04:47 Jabber = .org Jan 29 01:04:50 Everything else = .net Jan 29 01:05:32 alright, I'll be more specific in the future... Jan 29 01:05:35 Again, it's because I wanted to give everyone something better than Dreamhost's Jabber server. Jan 29 01:05:44 Which was total crap. Jan 29 01:05:59 The one on .org is one I run myself with all the bells and whistles. Jan 29 01:06:19 btw, thanks for the jablet stuff Jan 29 01:06:34 No problem. Jan 29 01:06:36 it's the thing that keeps me from being tempted to install scary rtcomm betas :) Jan 29 01:06:43 It's a little sad to see it's not used as much anymore since RTCOMM came out. Jan 29 01:12:19 anyone know if the flasher works under Mac os x Leopard? Jan 29 01:12:28 I keep getting "Bad CPU type in executable" Jan 29 01:13:16 * Cymor is back (gone 00:43:55) Jan 29 01:39:42 anyone got a BT mouse that pairs with the n800? Jan 29 01:43:35 The holux sirf3 one does so fine Jan 29 01:44:25 nokia ld-3w Jan 29 01:45:33 petergunn, I think people on ITT might have but there's still issues making a cursor show up Jan 29 01:46:25 oh Jan 29 01:46:43 I read "bt mouse" and assumed you meant the bt gps units which some people call mice or pucks. Jan 29 01:46:53 ajturner, run it under Rosetta. Jan 29 01:47:12 GeneralAntilles: turns out the problem was that Safari was corrupting the download Jan 29 01:47:17 Or that. Jan 29 01:47:17 worked fine in Firefox Jan 29 01:47:21 from FF Jan 29 01:47:47 not the best "out of the box" experience :) Jan 29 01:52:08 ajturner, who said it would be? Jan 29 01:52:26 Really, that's something that most reviews specifically hit on. Jan 29 01:52:33 The power comes later. ;) Jan 29 01:59:03 GeneralAntilles: the ads for the N810 definitely don't show enough geeks hunched over a USB cable running terminal ;) Jan 29 01:59:21 There's always 770Flasher Jan 29 02:00:13 another simple issue is the App Manager - it's definitely aimed at Devs Jan 29 02:00:24 typical users probably don't care about Version and Size Jan 29 02:00:44 they'd care more about category Jan 29 02:00:50 users might care how much space it takes Jan 29 02:00:54 ^ Jan 29 02:00:58 but actually...devs don't like it either Jan 29 02:01:02 no one likes it Jan 29 02:01:20 At least it remembers your position now. Jan 29 02:01:57 I love that most apps also have meaningless titles and the title as description Jan 29 02:02:10 Blame the packagers for that. Jan 29 02:02:12 heh...well that's bad packaging Jan 29 02:05:25 what is the GPS setting for N810? Jan 29 02:05:29 File or GPSD? Jan 29 02:06:26 ajturner, is this for maemo mapper? Jan 29 02:06:33 yes Jan 29 02:10:28 try selecting bluetooth with the bluetooth field blank Jan 29 02:12:19 that appears to be the official word from gnuite for now Jan 29 02:13:57 cool Jan 29 02:14:00 that seems to be working Jan 29 02:14:19 how's the builtin GPS working for you? Jan 29 02:14:59 well, I'm indoors ;) Jan 29 02:15:26 stuck it in window Jan 29 02:18:06 it never worked indoors for me Jan 29 02:22:06 yeah, didn't get a fix Jan 29 02:22:17 not good coverage out of the window Jan 29 02:22:22 anyone tried building midori/webkit lately? Jan 29 02:22:46 GeneralAntilles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRWLqHTioI here's the difference between N810 normal audio playback and what it can really do Jan 29 02:23:08 unfortunately the details aren't really audible in that vid Jan 29 02:23:18 but the volume problem sure is Jan 29 02:25:35 try with mplayer? Jan 29 02:26:05 the mplayer sound (gstreamer dspsink) is really crapola in the high-end - probably a resampling issue) Jan 29 02:28:42 Wow . . . that's pretty ridiculous. Jan 29 02:33:04 I wonder if it's as drastic on an N800. Jan 29 02:34:00 webkitgtk is compiling.. Jan 29 02:34:32 GeneralAntilles: I can even hear the distortion in the startup sound when the system boots Jan 29 02:34:54 every single sound is badly distorted, and yet that esd testpattern is crystal clear Jan 29 02:36:22 http://www.atoker.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/webkit2.png Jan 29 02:36:22 ?? Jan 29 02:36:25 what happened to that? Jan 29 02:36:36 I think it's still around. Jan 29 02:36:41 Not sure how hard it is to get going Jan 29 02:36:48 or whether the EAL bindings are 100% Jan 29 02:36:55 I don't think there was ever a .deb Jan 29 02:37:02 wouldn't it be faster than microb? Jan 29 02:37:39 Don't have a clue. Jan 29 02:37:56 yeah, ajax benchmarks at around 4.5x MicroB Jan 29 02:38:15 JS a little better than that. gfx at 2x. best to try for yourself though Jan 29 02:38:15 Dafydd and Senko at Collabora have done a great job on the “unstable” 1.3 branch. This is the branch that Nokia is using in the Maemo platform and it can probably be considered quite stable. Jan 29 02:38:20 :O Jan 29 02:38:29 Mikael Hallendal - Fri, 2008-01-11 15:09 Jan 29 02:39:33 Man . . . the OS2007 default theme was an abomination. Jan 29 02:40:22 fysa: did you try CPPFLAGS="-DMAEMO_CHANGES=1 -DMOBILE=1"? Jan 29 02:40:44 fysa: that will enable Hildon UI support and some of the Android loader tweaks Jan 29 02:40:55 for webkit or midori? Jan 29 02:41:12 webkit. i don't know anything about midori Jan 29 02:41:46 fysa: that's 1.3 branch is of loudmouth, the XMPP library... Jan 29 02:41:58 doh Jan 29 02:41:59 :) Jan 29 02:42:44 hi there, I've got a problem running mozilla in maemo (i cannot run it). Hmm... possible to give me some advice? :-) Jan 29 02:42:59 alp: nice. not yet, trying this now. Jan 29 02:43:47 when I tried to start it: [sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/moz1.9/mozilla/obj-dir-browser-chinook-armel/dist/bin] > GRE_HOME=. ./run-mozilla.sh ./firefox Jan 29 02:43:47 qemu: Unsupported syscall: 264 Jan 29 02:43:47 qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - exiting Jan 29 02:43:47 [sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/moz1.9/mozilla/obj-dir-browser-chinook-armel/dist/bin] > Jan 29 02:43:50 fysa: ok, there are a bunch of tricks we've developed in recent weeks in preparation for the mobile WebKit SDK. if you need any help, #'webkit-gtk or message me Jan 29 02:44:02 performance tricks, that is. it's not all merged yet Jan 29 02:44:35 excellent, very nice. Jan 29 02:45:19 kenny-yu, it looks like qemu isn't able to emulate an ARM processor well enough to run it Jan 29 02:45:58 hi johnx: Ar? But I've also tried it in X86 without a success..... :-( Jan 29 02:46:49 what error does it give on x86? use pastebin if it's long... Jan 29 02:48:13 wait let me re-generate the error for you to see... Jan 29 02:49:39 Oops... this time, /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set.. what value should i assign to? Jan 29 02:51:47 sorry, I honestly don't know Jan 29 02:56:01 johnx, Hey, never mind. :-) Jan 29 02:56:47 it's happy to have your answer already :-) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 29 02:59:57 2008