**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 29 02:59:57 2008 Jan 29 03:02:26 hi johnx, just a quick question, do you think I need to switch in CHINOOK_X86 and install a new mozilla separately? because when I did the installation, I remember it was in CHINOOK_ARMEL but not x86.... Jan 29 03:03:51 aaah...yes Jan 29 03:03:58 I was kind of wondering about that Jan 29 03:04:51 kenny-yu, a program compiled for ARM/ARMEL can't be run on an x86 processor without emulation Jan 29 03:05:09 ar, you're right! Jan 29 03:05:45 thanks :-) then I'll need to compile it once again (using --disable-tests again) in X86 environment, right? Jan 29 03:05:51 yes Jan 29 03:06:02 thanks a lot! I'm trying it now Jan 29 03:06:06 sure Jan 29 03:06:08 good luck Jan 29 03:06:14 thanks :) Jan 29 04:48:38 trying to build osso-esd-0.52 need osso-dsp-headers (osso-dsp-headers-rx-44 or osso-dsp-headers-rx-34) Jan 29 04:50:05 maybe i can just do without it for now Jan 29 04:50:41 trying to get esddsp working so we can hack together a solution for OSS programs Jan 29 04:53:35 brief googling makes me thing the headers aren't publicly available and not really possible to work around Jan 29 04:55:55 okis Jan 29 04:58:14 freecraft compiles cleanly Jan 29 04:58:21 looks like both alsa and esd provide a kind of frontend to /dev/dsp Jan 29 04:58:23 nice Jan 29 04:59:41 I have an alsa-oss deb now that will install the libs, but it doesn't make the /dev/dsp node Jan 29 05:00:07 mknod /dev/dsp c 14 3 Jan 29 05:04:19 but that seems do disappear after reboot Jan 29 05:07:34 damn it. would somebody else please do this :) Jan 29 05:09:31 has anybody heard anything about the the bugfix release of Canola2 that was rumoured to be coming out today? Jan 29 05:10:11 you might need to create a rule in udev to make the device Jan 29 05:10:23 or just put the mknod in an initscript Jan 29 05:11:25 ah ty johnx Jan 29 05:11:30 http://beta.pgdc.com/files/alsa-oss_1.0.14-1_armel.deb Jan 29 05:11:55 that's the version that doesn't mknod Jan 29 05:14:19 freecnc++ compiles cleanly Jan 29 05:14:50 did you build it to open /dev/dsptask/pcm3? Jan 29 05:15:00 alsa-oss? Jan 29 05:15:03 yes Jan 29 05:15:19 i mean that looks wrong Jan 29 05:15:25 I didn't change it. Jan 29 05:15:30 ok Jan 29 05:15:59 the source included reference on how to access specific pcm using asound.conf Jan 29 05:16:08 ok there's a fix there somewhere Jan 29 05:16:43 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/27362 Jan 29 05:17:40 I haven't seen a fix yet Jan 29 05:17:49 bed time Jan 29 05:18:02 ok laters Jan 29 05:25:09 hi there Jan 29 05:25:33 I'm trying to reinstall mozilla on maemo, in an CHINOOK_X86 environment... Jan 29 05:26:06 but applying patch gives me error message (reference instruction can be found in http://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Build/Maemo_Build_Instructions ) Jan 29 05:26:15 Can anyone help me? :-) Jan 29 05:26:33 I'm really sorry because I've been making you so much trouble :-( Jan 29 05:27:45 If nobody replies, kennyyu, it just means there's nobody here with an answer right now. ;) Jan 29 05:28:30 hi GeneralAntilles, thanks ;) Jan 29 05:28:42 I recommend the hours of 0900-1300 UTC. Jan 29 05:29:12 Have you tried googling the error? Jan 29 05:29:18 Hmm... I'm not sure about UTC... what is your time now? Jan 29 05:29:52 EST Jan 29 05:29:56 yes, but maybe I can try to google it once more first... Jan 29 05:29:57 I'm -5 Jan 29 05:30:25 And I'm in Hong Kong, +8, now it's 1.29PM. So when should I approach this channel later? :-) Jan 29 05:30:47 Give it about 5 hours. Jan 29 05:31:01 The people who are likely to be able to help you are on European time. Jan 29 05:31:15 It's about 5:00AM for them right now. ;) Jan 29 05:31:30 Oh I see. So I shall visit later... Thanks! Jan 29 05:31:35 Sure, good luck. Jan 29 05:44:03 good morning cruel world Jan 29 05:44:14 does notes have an about dialog/ Jan 29 05:45:37 dunno Jan 29 05:45:46 can you check? :) Jan 29 05:51:58 yes Jan 29 05:52:27 it does not, timelyx Jan 29 05:52:32 os2008 latest Jan 29 05:54:19 bug 2846 Jan 29 05:54:25 feel free to yell at the reporter Jan 29 05:57:09 Hello.. I was wondering this was a channel where someone could ask some general questions about the n800 and BlueTooth GPS compatibility.. if not. is there an IRC channel for n800 owners that anyone knows of? Jan 29 05:57:50 there's no channel dedicated to n800 owners Jan 29 05:57:57 we don't reject people w/ 770s or n810s Jan 29 05:58:40 you're free to ask questions, although it'd be a good idea for you to search the channel logs first Jan 29 05:58:49 and it might make sense to search ITT too Jan 29 06:00:32 VictBC43: though I see no reason why your question should be n800 specific. The compatability is at a software level... Jan 29 06:00:37 /lastlog mknod Jan 29 06:01:21 well I have just spent several hours with google trying to find out what is a good BT GPS unit to use with the n800.. I am still waiting for my n800 to arrive (ordered it last Friday) so really don't know much about the navigation capabilities that maemo mapper has other than what I have read about on the web in various forums etc Jan 29 06:01:55 i like my iblue 757 Jan 29 06:02:44 I don't have a BT GPS, but from what I hear: get something with a "SiRF Star III" chipset Jan 29 06:02:51 but it is buggy with usb only connections (when BT isnt up); i dont know if thats been fixed Jan 29 06:02:55 I decided to pick up an n800 because I finely decided I needed an upgrade from my Sharp Zaurus, I unfortunately there is not much support for anymore.. even in the opensource community :( Anyway, I liked the n800 because it runs linux :) Jan 29 06:03:01 sirf III is good Jan 29 06:03:11 mtk32 or sirf IIIc is better Jan 29 06:03:19 which zaurus? Jan 29 06:03:43 also, see if you can find a thread on internettablettalk.com/forums about GPS stuff that would be a good resource for "works, doesn't work" kind of info Jan 29 06:04:00 heh...lots of Zaurus users getting N8x0s Jan 29 06:04:42 my mtk32 works fairly well in nyc Jan 29 06:05:06 I was looking and ordered an Holux GBslim 236 online on the weekend.. but upon further study it seems many people have been experiencing problems with the BT portion failing after a while.. :( So I may just send it right back without even opening it. I have read many good reviews on the I-737.. and not been able to find any major complaints about it so far.. Jan 29 06:05:17 so does my sirf 3, but power reqs are higher, unless you can find IIIc which i hear is better Jan 29 06:05:31 I'm impresed my MTK gets a lock in the city, but it's got some serious multipath problems. Jan 29 06:06:01 its not multipath thats the problem, its warmup aquistion. Jan 29 06:06:16 Oh.. I have a SL-5500 zaurus with openzaurus and opie running on it :) Jan 29 06:06:16 i find my holux better than the iblue in that respect Jan 29 06:06:32 It seems to work okay so long as it's not moving. Jan 29 06:06:35 ex 5600 user here. Jan 29 06:07:01 they were such great devices.. but alas.. I think there time has come.. and gone :( Jan 29 06:07:19 have a 5500 (stored until 2.6 gets better), a C1000 (still in use) and an N800 Jan 29 06:07:22 anyway.. back to the topic at hand :) Jan 29 06:07:39 i nearly bought the -c3200, but went with the n800 Jan 29 06:07:57 i like my sd/sdhc slots :-) Jan 29 06:08:17 but i still miss cf slots, they beg for hacks Jan 29 06:08:29 *cough*newest zaurus kernel supports sdhc*cough* Jan 29 06:08:32 :D Jan 29 06:08:50 my zaurus no longer supports charging *cry* Jan 29 06:09:28 oh noes :( my 5500 is plenty beaten up but most of it still works. Jan 29 06:09:52 anyways, let me see if I can dig up the BT GPS my friend uses with his N800 Jan 29 06:09:57 johnx, on a 5600? i thought sdhc was controller dependant? Jan 29 06:10:15 VictBC43, did you see the 757? Jan 29 06:10:21 I looked at the n810.. but thought that the two SD memory slots were more important than then built in GPS and slideout keyboard.. besides I have heard the built in GPS chip is not the greatest.. so I thought I can get an external BT GPS with the n800 and place it the optimal position on the dash for reception while still having the n800 closer to me so I can see the screen better Jan 29 06:10:39 Good plan. Jan 29 06:10:43 Luria, C1000...I have no idea how they made it work O_o Jan 29 06:11:07 amazing Jan 29 06:11:18 VictBC43, yeah. and the N800 is such a deal right now Jan 29 06:11:33 if they released a shiba model, i would have had to buy another zaurus :-) Jan 29 06:11:54 is that the i-blue that data logging or some such thing built in.. ? Jan 29 06:11:58 * Luria has one of those (shiba inus) too Jan 29 06:12:05 yes, and the solar panel Jan 29 06:12:30 And apparently the speakers in the front of n800 are a little better than the ones they put in the n810 Jan 29 06:12:54 or so the various reviews I have read have pointed out :) Jan 29 06:12:56 thats scary, cause the n800 speakers blow. or rather, they dont, enough Jan 29 06:13:07 N800 speakers are great for their size. Jan 29 06:13:11 what do you expect on something that size?! Jan 29 06:13:17 better. Jan 29 06:13:23 well that was the comment. they are amazing considering their size Jan 29 06:13:25 Loudspeaker quality, evidently. Jan 29 06:13:25 :-) Jan 29 06:15:33 anyway all those things plus the fact that it runs linux was what made me order one.. I also wanted something that could be used the way I used to the use the Zaurus.. like an ultra mini laptop ;) or these days I guess the term is UMPC Jan 29 06:15:56 Internet tablet. :P Jan 29 06:16:05 VictBC43, the only thing I really miss (having an N800 instead of an N810) is the transflective screen and the keyboard Jan 29 06:16:11 or "MID" if you're Intel. Jan 29 06:16:12 well you can also run ssh, xterm, etc etc or so I read Jan 29 06:16:32 and some crazy guys are working on Debian Jan 29 06:16:33 johnx, yeah, agreed Jan 29 06:16:54 tho i find im using my eee more and more and my n800 less and less Jan 29 06:18:08 Eee doesn't make any sense for my usage. Jan 29 06:18:14 If it's not pocketable, it's kinda pointless. Jan 29 06:18:14 I no one has tried getting a mini version of x-windows running on one.. or is that what the interface is using in the OS already? It would be cool to ssh to my linux box at home and have an app served to the n800 Jan 29 06:18:25 x windows is in by default :) Jan 29 06:18:30 VictBC43, yeah, that works fine. Jan 29 06:18:43 johnx: by default makes it sound like you can easily or safely remove X Jan 29 06:18:44 Coooool !! Jan 29 06:18:46 you can't. Jan 29 06:19:01 w/o x, the device will reboot itself :) Jan 29 06:19:02 X11 is an important component of the Maemo UI Jan 29 06:19:11 timelyx, what are you on about? Jan 29 06:19:16 there is my marketing speech recalibrated? :P Jan 29 06:19:28 (again, and again, until it switches to play dead mode) Jan 29 06:19:40 I looked at those as well, I assume you are talking about the ASUS Eee's? Jan 29 06:19:44 GeneralAntilles: English word choice Jan 29 06:19:50 yeah, an eeepc Jan 29 06:19:53 default implies a certain level of "optional" Jan 29 06:19:56 it isn't. Jan 29 06:20:05 Er, right, pedantry. :P Jan 29 06:20:33 they look cool.. but they are a little big.. I already have a regular laptop. I wanted something that could be truly put in your pocket :) Jan 29 06:20:34 timelyx, booting is an unsupported feature, thus x is optional Jan 29 06:21:49 Luria: to be fair, my 770 had been off for weeks Jan 29 06:22:02 * timelyx turns it "off" again Jan 29 06:27:08 hehe.. all they need to do is build an n-series internet tablet with in one of those i-tech style virtual keyboards and those new miniature laser projector systems that are match-box sized and it would be awesome :) Jan 29 06:28:09 that way you could have your full size keyboard and a regular sized screen all projected from a hand held UMPC Jan 29 06:28:33 Have you ever used a laser-keyboard before, VictBC43? <_< Jan 29 06:28:42 that and bluetooth foldable keyboards are both great ... until you want to type standing up or sitting on a crowded train, or on a bus/in a car, etc, etc Jan 29 06:29:00 no.. I have not.. just read the reviews.. the zaurus had a thumb board built in Jan 29 06:29:02 Then you have the fullscreen keyboard! Jan 29 06:29:11 (which they really need to roll the bugs out of) Jan 29 06:29:43 GeneralAntilles, which bugs are you thinking of specifically? Jan 29 06:29:51 Hehehe Jan 29 06:29:56 The broken return key Jan 29 06:30:04 Broken tap placement Jan 29 06:30:10 Broken activation Jan 29 06:30:36 I have used a fold out portable keyboard for the Palm Pilot I has.. it was IR and was ok.. but had to make sure it was positioned correctly so they could see each other.. Jan 29 06:31:00 has = had Jan 29 06:31:03 VictBC43, bluetooth a very nice step up in that regard Jan 29 06:31:21 I'd get yourself an iGo keyboard asap VictBC43. Jan 29 06:31:21 GeneralAntilles, I thought (2) was something to do with the touchscreen? Jan 29 06:31:28 No, johnx. Jan 29 06:31:31 Maybe for some people Jan 29 06:31:37 But it's a new bug with OS2008 final. Jan 29 06:31:38 ah Jan 29 06:31:47 So.. back to GPS.. has anyone here seen or owned a Holux brand GPS? Jan 29 06:31:54 the igo seems very popular Jan 29 06:32:02 s/new bug/new bug for me/ Jan 29 06:32:03 GeneralAntilles meant: But it's a new bug for me with OS2008 final. Jan 29 06:32:15 pupnik_, really, really portable. Jan 29 06:32:24 and it was on Amazon for $30 USD for a few months. ;) Jan 29 06:33:37 the other question I had was what the best IRC client to use with the n800? Jan 29 06:33:44 xchat Jan 29 06:33:53 or irssi Jan 29 06:33:58 Whichever suits your fancy. Jan 29 06:34:03 which is what I am using right now, only on my home PC Jan 29 06:34:20 yeah n800 xchat ftw Jan 29 06:34:39 and is there an application that lets you use the built in web cam as a video recorder.. ? Jan 29 06:35:02 i own a holux usb gps Jan 29 06:35:16 that's crazy, i paid $130 for what is just an igo stowaway sonoma Jan 29 06:35:21 actually i have it with me Jan 29 06:35:30 looks like the same design as the thinkoutside Jan 29 06:35:47 xchat everywhere (except windows) ftw\ Jan 29 06:36:09 VictBC43, I think there's something to record some type of video...but don't expect much Jan 29 06:36:14 ssh+screen+irssi everywhere! Jan 29 06:36:21 I know the quality of the camera is supposed to not be the best.. but I though it would be handy to have.. Jan 29 06:36:28 the cam is actually so bad that not many people have bothered doing much with it Jan 29 06:37:01 It is, pupnik_. Jan 29 06:37:27 hehe.. well I looked at some of the demonstrations of the n800 on youtube and the quality of camera did'nt seem that terrible. but I guess I will know better when I actually get mine in had :) Jan 29 06:37:33 had = hand Jan 29 06:37:39 the cam is, as the kids say, "teh suck" Jan 29 06:38:11 hopefully we'll discourage you so much about it that when you see it you'll actually be impressed :) Jan 29 06:38:28 impressed by how bad it is, yeah. Jan 29 06:38:41 hehe.. Jan 29 06:38:53 Yeah, don't get me wrong. I love my tablets. Jan 29 06:39:18 VictBC43, actually, did you ever see the Camera attachment for the Z5500 (or see pics taken with it)? Jan 29 06:39:21 otoh, im very impressed by the eee's cam Jan 29 06:39:32 well what do you want for something that does all the things that the n800 appears to do and in only $239 :) Jan 29 06:39:34 johnx, i have one! Jan 29 06:39:46 So how do you like your Eee PC? Jan 29 06:39:56 Luria, would you agree that the N800 cam is actually worse? Jan 29 06:40:05 i mean, the eee's cam at .3m just like the n800 Jan 29 06:40:15 now that i think about it, yes, iirc Jan 29 06:40:28 isn't that sad? Jan 29 06:40:50 VictBC43, im really impressed by the eee. i miss bt, but that's a hack away Jan 29 06:41:08 i stuck 2gb in it and kde3.5+compiz Jan 29 06:41:15 or one of those really short bt usb modules Jan 29 06:41:26 Does it have BT built in.. or would you have to get a USB dongle? Jan 29 06:41:30 its nice to have a well supported linux box travelling with the n800 Jan 29 06:41:39 no built in BT in this generation Jan 29 06:41:50 but 3 usb ports Jan 29 06:42:10 Luria, sacrifice a USB port for one of these: http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/24/princetons-itty-bitty-usb-bluetooth-2-0-edr-module/ Jan 29 06:42:20 So how much smaller is it than a 'standard' laptop. hard to tell from the pictures I have seen.. Jan 29 06:42:25 (plus vga out, ethernet, sound i/o and an sdhc card slot Jan 29 06:43:01 VictBC43, it reminds me of a cross between my cf-m34 and old laptops (because of the frame around the screen) Jan 29 06:43:33 but it is a serviceable machine - i havent touched my toshiba of similar specs (r100) since i got it. Jan 29 06:44:05 4200rpm drives for x86 machines = bad idea. cf mac air Jan 29 06:44:22 speaking of - Jan 29 06:44:23 http://diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com/2008/01/mac-cutting-edge-technology.html Jan 29 06:45:51 as far as size, the keyboard takes getting used to, and the screen, despite the resolution, is fine for general use - but expect to maximize everything. Jan 29 06:46:14 Soooo.. one last question about GPS.. Holux or I-Blue.. MTK vs SIRFIII.. what is the consensus ? Jan 29 06:46:17 Luria, that's what the SSD is for. :P Jan 29 06:46:19 its a really good IT tool, backtrack linux specifically supports it as of BT3 beta Jan 29 06:46:23 MTK Jan 29 06:46:29 mtk Jan 29 06:46:40 Holux or i-blue . . . get whatever you can get a deal on. Jan 29 06:46:47 sirf IIIc, maybe, if you can find it Jan 29 06:46:47 They're pretty much identical. Jan 29 06:46:54 Personally, I like the look of the i-blues more. Jan 29 06:46:57 except in power draw Jan 29 06:46:58 But, meh. Jan 29 06:47:33 mtk32 beats III like a red headed stepchild in the power draw category. Jan 29 06:49:27 VictBC43, are you using the gps exclusively with the n800? Jan 29 06:52:52 Hmm well it looks like I can get a i-blue 737 for 59.00 cdn.. I have a Holux GPSlim 236 on order.. but as I said.. it would seem from reading about them that there is a good chance the BT circuit with fail after a short while.. but it does have the SiRF Star III chipset ... Jan 29 06:53:29 yes.. I would be using it exclusively with the n800.. at least in the foreseeable future Jan 29 06:54:38 then go with the iblue Jan 29 06:54:43 if you can Jan 29 06:55:16 odd, ive found holux gpses to be well built. Jan 29 06:55:41 Ok.. will call CanadaGPS tomorrow and see if I can get an RMA number for an item I have not even received yet (it is in transit) :) Jan 29 06:55:46 :-) Jan 29 06:57:10 will an order from semsons kill you on cross border shipping/exchange? Jan 29 06:57:17 i was very happy with my order from them Jan 29 06:57:52 plus they just have neat stuff :-) Jan 29 06:58:06 It might.. especially if they ship via a courier.. they kill you with brokerage fees.. Jan 29 06:59:05 well, look into it. the prices were the best i found in the us when i ordered my 757pro (in july) Jan 29 06:59:49 Numerix (sp?) chipset BT GPS's aren't bad and the battery life is incredible Jan 29 07:00:31 http://www.semsons.com/nosyblgpsres.html Jan 29 07:00:39 if you search Amazon.com for Holux GPslim 236 then look at the customer reviews.. those that have had the unit for several months... there seems toe be a common theme.. BT failure and poor or nonexistent customer support.. Jan 29 07:00:41 http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000AOMPS6/ref=cm_cr_pr_redirect/103-2320153-9698249 Jan 29 07:01:08 thats the new sirf chipset Jan 29 07:01:28 i dont know how well it works vs. the promises Jan 29 07:02:13 that's expensive Jan 29 07:03:20 it could be worse Jan 29 07:03:22 http://www.semsons.com/i757prosobtd.html Jan 29 07:03:31 thats what i use Jan 29 07:03:41 Hmmm.. luria.. you say you have the i757.. does anyone have the i737 here? Jan 29 07:03:48 Yes. Jan 29 07:04:09 they are virtually the same Jan 29 07:04:16 Solar panel Jan 29 07:04:26 and 8mb logger Jan 29 07:04:26 Luria: how long does it run between charges? Jan 29 07:04:38 long Jan 29 07:04:47 its rare that i charge it Jan 29 07:05:01 esp when in use during the day Jan 29 07:05:13 have you had it on for 12hours? Jan 29 07:05:17 yes Jan 29 07:05:46 nice Jan 29 07:06:09 bad startup aquisition time in my experience, tho Jan 29 07:06:16 but i live in a bad area Jan 29 07:06:21 Yeah, not here. Jan 29 07:06:27 ~30s Jan 29 07:06:52 they reviews say the surf chipset is more sensitive but higher power consumption the the numerix; I find the numerix one behaves sufficient for me Jan 29 07:07:07 still find the holux sirf3 better for that. once locked thoo, there isnt a difference Jan 29 07:07:21 Goddamn 640x480 video looks good on the tablet. . . . Jan 29 07:07:30 * GeneralAntilles wish he could ignore the dropped frames. :( Jan 29 07:07:36 ds3, i live in manhattan :-) Jan 29 07:07:41 Luria.. it looks like semsons wants $28.00 to ship to Canada Jan 29 07:07:48 they arent dropped frames, Jan 29 07:07:55 its JIT video editing Jan 29 07:08:02 Ha Jan 29 07:08:03 GeneralAntilles, crank down the framerate when transcoding? Jan 29 07:08:14 VictBC43, ouch Jan 29 07:08:23 better than losing frames on playback Jan 29 07:08:42 Luria: I've use mine in chicago and it seems fine Jan 29 07:08:43 I transcode to 320x240 with mediaserv for most stuff these days. Jan 29 07:08:50 and that does not include the taxes, duty and brokerage fees I would likely be hit with as well Jan 29 07:09:02 yeah, been there Jan 29 07:09:32 anyway.. you all seem to think the MTK chipset is as good as the SiRF III? Jan 29 07:09:36 savings evaporate *poof* Jan 29 07:09:44 If only Nokia hadn't screwed up the controller bus. :( Jan 29 07:09:58 SiRF IIIc, VictBC43. Jan 29 07:09:58 GeneralAntilles, if it's 640x480x16bitsx30fps is probably too much but it might work at 24/25fps if the CPU doesn't get bogged down Jan 29 07:10:26 there are a bunch of comparisons online between the two. mtk32 is better with power which is compelling with a mobile use case Jan 29 07:10:40 other than that, *shrug* Jan 29 07:10:54 i use my sirf3 with my laptop, mtk with my n800 Jan 29 07:12:42 Weeeeell . . . that didn't work. Jan 29 07:12:47 * GeneralAntilles broke tablet-encode Jan 29 07:13:05 oh noes! Jan 29 07:13:21 It was about a 10 second encoding. <_> Jan 29 07:13:39 just yank the preset from tablet-encode and call mencoder directly Jan 29 07:13:51 There we go. Jan 29 07:14:36 Well I am off.. thank you for all assistance and input and answering my questions.. it was much appreciated :) Jan 29 07:16:03 Cripes . . . can you imagine downsampled 720p on the N900? Jan 29 07:26:07 <|tbb|> will a scratchbox enviroment also send dbus messages as it does on n8x0 devices Jan 29 07:26:12 <|tbb|> morning btw Jan 29 07:27:03 i think so Jan 29 07:27:05 |tbb|: in what occasion? Jan 29 07:27:20 if you have the daemons running and you use dbus-send, then yes, it will send them Jan 29 07:28:24 <|tbb|> ah k Jan 29 07:29:50 and by the "daemons" I mean dbus session and system buses Jan 29 07:44:59 johnx, I'm not sure if it was you who told me to compile mozilla in CHINOOK_X86 instead of ARMEL. And just to let you know I've finally compiled it successfully :-) Jan 29 07:44:59 and thanks Jan 29 07:50:43 kennyyu: is that all you changed? Jan 29 07:50:58 * timelyx presumes that --disable-tests was still needed Jan 29 07:52:19 Hi timelyx. I just re-do the compilation work once again and I followed your suggestion to --disable-tests Jan 29 07:52:34 re Jan 29 07:52:50 And... this time I changed my environment to CHINOOK_X86 for building ILD and Mozilla Jan 29 07:53:00 and it works this time :-) Jan 29 07:53:32 * kennyyu thinks timelyx's presumption is right. Jan 29 07:55:15 and it works finally... I retried it again and again for days and I think the wiki wasn't clear enough... :-( Jan 29 07:56:54 kennyyu: anyone can edit a wiki Jan 29 07:57:34 yes, ... ah, one more thing to note is that. Jan 29 07:57:51 I've found that the patch does not work Jan 29 07:57:59 so I skipped applying the patch Jan 29 07:58:07 "the patch"? Jan 29 07:58:07 and that's it. :-) Jan 29 07:58:09 yes. Jan 29 07:58:16 in the page... wait Jan 29 07:59:12 http://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Build/Maemo_Build_Instructions (there is a patch instruction --> ' cat attachment.cgi\?id\=287745 | patch -p1 ') Jan 29 07:59:36 http://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Build/Maemo_Build_Instructions#Build_the_the_trunk_.28mozilla_1.9.29 Jan 29 08:00:32 kennyyu: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=287745&action=edit Jan 29 08:00:51 that bug's resolved Jan 29 08:01:14 so the patch shouldn't be needed Jan 29 08:01:20 just remove that instruction from the wiki Jan 29 08:01:37 Oic! Jan 29 08:01:52 Alright, I shall just remove it... Jan 29 08:02:46 :-) thanks for your help anyway Jan 29 08:03:07 without your help... @@ sigh, I wouldn't have it compiled to this step.... Jan 29 08:03:11 btw, you shouldn't repeat yourself Jan 29 08:03:35 so stick a single note about CHINOOK_X86 at the top, and get rid of the continual reminders elsewhere Jan 29 08:05:14 you mean my names in the wiki... oops, I left my names there just because I wasn't sure about my changes.... Jan 29 08:05:34 btw, the step for installing xephyr should say "from the host machine" Jan 29 08:05:41 just like the step for "running" xephyr Jan 29 08:05:47 ...does Jan 29 08:06:18 let me see... Jan 29 08:06:20 note: while anyone can edit a wiki, i hate wikis because they require me to remember usernames+passwords, which i can't seem to do. so since you're interested in editing it, i'm kinda borrowing you :) Jan 29 08:06:46 hahaha Jan 29 08:06:56 not at all :-) Jan 29 08:07:04 :) Jan 29 08:07:22 anyway, i'm off to work. Jan 29 08:07:35 alright, have a nice day :-) Jan 29 08:07:41 hrm Jan 29 08:08:02 you should add the ac_add_options --disable-tests line into the mozconfig fragment Jan 29 08:08:11 near the line that does: Jan 29 08:08:12 echo "mk_add_options MOZ_OBJDIR=@TOPSRCDIR@/obj-dir-browser-chinook-armel" >> mozconfig Jan 29 08:08:26 something like: echo "ac_add_options --disable-tests" >> mozconfig Jan 29 08:08:36 (make sure the line works before you add it to the wiki..) Jan 29 08:09:00 * timelyx still doesn't understand the xmlextras bit Jan 29 08:09:06 * timelyx bangs elbow... *ouch* Jan 29 08:09:55 okok :p Jan 29 08:10:02 don't worry Jan 29 08:57:08 <_collin_> re Jan 29 09:16:51 Morning.. Two questions: Is it me or is the headphone jack hard to get out of the N810 again? And are there known problems with 11MBit/b networks or is this AP from the stoneage flaky? Jan 29 09:19:50 Blafasel: the jack is hard, yes and your AP might not support power saving Jan 29 09:20:11 go in the advanced preferences for the connection and increase the timeout Jan 29 09:20:38 Morning, all Jan 29 09:21:34 morning Jan 29 09:26:04 bon dia / good morning Jan 29 09:30:29 <|tbb|> morning jaffa,blafasel Jan 29 09:31:15 <|tbb|> blafasel: have u iodine get to run, with 4.0 Jan 29 09:31:58 <|tbb|> hi collin Jan 29 09:32:50 <_collin_> tbb: 0.4.1 is online :) Jan 29 09:33:40 <|tbb|> blasfasel: there you go Jan 29 09:33:55 <|tbb|> collin:thx Jan 29 09:33:56 <_collin_> tbb: he knows already Jan 29 09:34:00 <|tbb|> oh Jan 29 09:34:16 <_collin_> and using it Jan 29 09:35:49 <_collin_> do people from nokia/maemo tend to hang out here? ... just curious Jan 29 09:37:54 Hello Jan 29 09:38:25 _collin_, some do Jan 29 09:38:54 Hello Jan 29 09:39:18 michele: The idle times are set to unlimited for me. I guess/hope that disables powersaving completely? Jan 29 09:40:33 odd Jan 29 09:40:42 my irc client was mis-behaving Jan 29 09:40:44 what resolution does the n810 camera have? what does vga mean in this context? is it 640x480? Jan 29 09:41:41 n0ob_: don't mind the resolution. The quality is *low*. Jan 29 09:41:50 vga is 640x480 Jan 29 09:42:09 kulve: can you give me example pictures? Jan 29 09:43:41 http://tuomas.kulve.fi/tmp/camera-2007-02-14-22-55-41.jpg Jan 29 09:43:53 seems to be vga resolution Jan 29 09:44:03 Blafasel: I think so Jan 29 09:44:05 And quite noisy ;) Jan 29 09:44:24 it's maybe a bit better (lower noise) in very bright light but I think that's quite typical image. Jan 29 09:44:26 kulve: tracked down that doc? Jan 29 09:44:28 ouch Jan 29 09:44:39 that not nice Jan 29 09:44:42 michele: still tracking.. Jan 29 09:45:10 noob, the camera is really meant for videoconf, not much else Jan 29 09:45:24 mmh ok inz Jan 29 09:46:27 im just asking, because 380euros are quite a few bucks ;-) Jan 29 09:47:04 that was actually from n800, but at least the video quality is the same in n810. I think the camera is the same. Jan 29 09:47:15 ok kulve thanks a lot Jan 29 09:49:04 Hey folks, how long should an n800 battery last when idle? Jan 29 09:49:20 several days. When really idle Jan 29 09:49:22 how much bandwidth does conferencing approximatly need? Jan 29 09:49:41 how can you tell when it's really idle? Jan 29 09:49:59 n0ob_: you mean video call? I a bit over 128kbps it seems.. Jan 29 09:50:11 nice Jan 29 09:50:29 offline, screen locked, no app running and I still get only a few hours Jan 29 09:50:30 n0ob_: I'll take that back.. Jan 29 09:50:41 oh? Jan 29 09:51:51 n0ob_: we tried the call with 128kbps 3G and the uploading was a missing some frames, but I'm not sure how much the upload bandwidth is in that 3G. Maybe 64kbps. The download direction worked ok with 128kbps. Jan 29 09:52:20 thank you :-) Jan 29 09:54:04 n0ob, http://inz.fi/n810.jpg is with n810 Jan 29 09:54:33 n0ob, so pretty much the same quality Jan 29 09:55:03 thx inz you own a n810? Jan 29 09:55:59 Tama^2: see if this helps http://tabletblog.com/2008/01/lost-battery-life-try-this.html Jan 29 09:56:15 n0ob_: I have n810 too.. Jan 29 09:56:20 n0ob, "yes" Jan 29 09:56:23 thanks michele Jan 29 09:56:34 I have seen that one :) Jan 29 09:56:39 not helping apparently Jan 29 09:57:18 Tama^2: your device isn't in R&D mode, right? Jan 29 09:57:34 ok thats good... some people complain about the gps, but dont state wether they mean the hardware itself or the prepacked software. do you have experiences? Jan 29 09:57:57 n0ob_: the gps hw is pretty bad Jan 29 09:58:13 slow in getting the fix, especially while in move Jan 29 09:58:16 kulve: nope :) Jan 29 09:58:34 but I think it's good enough for a tablet since it's not a real gps device. More like a toy.. Jan 29 09:58:34 Yesterday I got gps fix indoors Jan 29 09:58:59 inz: at home? Jan 29 09:59:00 Although it claimed that my dining room table moved at 2-7 km/h velocity Jan 29 09:59:04 kulve, yeah Jan 29 09:59:11 heh Jan 29 09:59:24 yeah, it's always some km/h because the fix isn't accurate enough.. Jan 29 09:59:42 inz: yeah, in fact it's moving quite a lot faster than that, it's all a matter of choosing a reference Jan 29 09:59:48 lol Jan 29 10:00:01 mmh ok so what is realy positive about this geek toy? Jan 29 10:00:08 it's all about the frame of reference... Jan 29 10:00:36 n0ob_: I spent 7 hours reading an pdf during the weekend. And I'm watching some tv series from it. Jan 29 10:00:38 michele, well, my take is egocentric, and I was sitting by the table Jan 29 10:00:58 kulve: ok thats nice ;-) Jan 29 10:01:03 Also the GPS is enough for most uses. And the device with qwerty is perfect for ircing Jan 29 10:01:39 Shame no one has unfucked-up the xterm for chinook Jan 29 10:02:06 kulve: it is a shame though that a high-price device like the N810 has such a pathetic chipset though. I mean, >5 minutes for first fix... Jan 29 10:02:09 * inz whistles and avoids eye contact Jan 29 10:02:26 kulve: i want to use the gps for http://www.openstreetmap.org/ Jan 29 10:02:59 nomis: high-price? Have you compared the device to other devices with WVGA display, GPS, qwerty, 2G internal flash, 256M RAM, micro SD card slot, camera, etc.? Jan 29 10:03:24 n0ob_: some friends of mine used it here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Arezzo_Mapping_Party Jan 29 10:03:33 sirf-iii can perform really well. I suspect the antenna is the problem Jan 29 10:03:33 kulve: can you suggest tools to explore the power consumption problem? (something that return the current mAh/s or something like that ) Jan 29 10:03:53 Tama^2: I think there's nothing as sophisticated as that.. Jan 29 10:04:08 Tama^2: Have you checked with e.g. top that there really isn't anything running? Jan 29 10:04:09 michele: ok that seems to work then ;) Jan 29 10:04:15 i.e. taking cpu Jan 29 10:04:16 too bad there's no ext plug Jan 29 10:04:28 kulve: shouldn't there be a file in /proc? Jan 29 10:04:38 for the battery mAh Jan 29 10:04:42 bmidgley, I think it's a sirf2 not a sirf3, IIRC Jan 29 10:04:59 michele: I'm not sure actually.. Jan 29 10:05:11 yep, top reports low cpu usage but the load is never quite < 5/10 Jan 29 10:05:11 er...actually Jan 29 10:05:13 what is it Jan 29 10:05:16 hmm Jan 29 10:05:21 * johnx googles Jan 29 10:06:14 johnx, are you thinking of intel's powertop for tickless kernel? Jan 29 10:06:16 not a sirf at all, it's the GPS5300 from TI Jan 29 10:06:16 <_collin_> I thought the n810 doesn't have a sirf3 but has some TI chip Jan 29 10:06:40 nevermind :-) Jan 29 10:06:50 <_collin_> there was this story on planet-maemo ... Jan 29 10:06:59 whatever it is, it;s not a hogging the cpu, just keeping the unit busy enough to prevent it from entering a better powersave mode Jan 29 10:07:32 wnd, actually I tried powertop under debian on N800 and it didn't have enough of the hooks in the kernel that powertop needed to work Jan 29 10:08:11 all it would tell me was the percent of time that the CPU was spending at a certain clockspeed Jan 29 10:08:18 johnx yeah I thought I had read sirf-iii in a specsheet but can't find anything now Jan 29 10:08:19 which is somewhat irrelevant in the case of the tablet Jan 29 10:08:20 oh Jan 29 10:08:37 bmidgley, it's the GPS5300, same as an N95 Jan 29 10:08:49 but without being able to do that celluar AGPS thing like the N95 does Jan 29 10:09:11 GPS5300 is TI's "lowest cost" chipset apparently Jan 29 10:09:18 <_collin_> :) Jan 29 10:09:37 is it low power too or just cheaper Jan 29 10:09:46 * johnx shrugs Jan 29 10:09:51 linkage: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12607&path=templatedata/cm/product/data/gps_gps5300&DCMP=WTBU&HQS=ProductBulletin+OT+navilink_4 Jan 29 10:10:29 too bad... it performs about as well as my old sirf-ii gps Jan 29 10:10:54 someone ran tests. Apparently the sirf-ii is a little better Jan 29 10:11:05 ouch Jan 29 10:12:21 yeah, for N810 owners. Makes me feel better about getting my N800 when I did though Jan 29 10:13:56 bmidgley, oh, if you're interested in hearing about A2DP performance with the N800 booted into Debian: 75% constant CPU usage @ 400MHz ... but no skipping until I put further load on it. Period size gets set correctly, too Jan 29 10:15:13 the poor thing is that there's like no gps/maps applications for the n810 Jan 29 10:15:20 johnx a good test would be cvs head with http://pastebin.com/m41b4750c applied Jan 29 10:15:47 would've been cool if there was some integration with googlemaps and the gps Jan 29 10:15:49 cvs head of bluez-utils? Jan 29 10:15:56 liri it has a pretty weak app but maemo-mapper is great Jan 29 10:16:02 johnx yes Jan 29 10:16:32 marcel doesn't like how ugly the patch is... esp since gcc gets tripped up by 'static inline' on a fn Jan 29 10:17:15 johnx 75% is really high though... does that include mp3 decoding? Jan 29 10:17:26 yes Jan 29 10:17:36 through the gstreamer plugin? Jan 29 10:17:42 through mplayer Jan 29 10:17:52 actually, I should try a different decoder Jan 29 10:19:00 fwiw, the alsa plugin performs a lot better than the gstreamer plugin currently Jan 29 10:19:06 gst must be spinning the cpu Jan 29 10:19:46 interesting Jan 29 10:20:06 it is probably an implementation problem on our side Jan 29 10:20:10 is this on an N8x0 or something else Jan 29 10:20:12 A2DP requires the audio be compressed again so it could be also an unoptimized codec in bluez Jan 29 10:20:36 we're slowly optimizing it Jan 29 10:20:39 heh Jan 29 10:21:03 so I guess my experience on the Zaurus was just a lucky fluke. heh. Jan 29 10:21:19 the bluez gst guy just got mp3 direct-to-headset working through gstreamer Jan 29 10:21:47 that's only for a couple headsets though, right? Jan 29 10:22:01 yeah sadly Jan 29 10:24:28 heh...nothing like being an early adopter Jan 29 10:25:14 "is this on an N8x0 or something else" pxa270/gumstix Jan 29 10:25:45 openembedded? debian? Jan 29 10:25:49 oe Jan 29 10:26:03 debian on gumstix?? :) Jan 29 10:26:04 either way, something with a more "vanilla" setup than ITOS Jan 29 10:26:12 bmidgley, debian on zaurus Jan 29 10:26:14 same hardware Jan 29 10:26:47 64MB RAM / PXA270 @ 416MHz / root on SD Jan 29 10:27:22 pxa270 runs well but the uart is too slow to take advantage of bluetooth2 Jan 29 10:27:22 I need more SD cards so I can swtich OSes more quickly :D Jan 29 10:28:23 I'm doing bluetooth over USB host with cheapie USB BT adapter that claims to be BT 1.1 Jan 29 10:28:56 bmidgley: I am reading up on maemo-mapper on its homepage but it doesn't say - what is the source for the maps? Jan 29 10:29:13 liri: out of the box, it's openstreetmap Jan 29 10:29:24 liri, couple different sources: openstreetmap, google maps, and something else I dont' remember Jan 29 10:29:34 liri: but you can "steal" google maps and get usgs topo maps Jan 29 10:29:53 liri the topo maps are great but only cover the US Jan 29 10:30:14 whats usgs? Jan 29 10:30:22 US geological survey Jan 29 10:30:28 ahh ok Jan 29 10:30:47 so it can rely on googlemaps for the gps? Jan 29 10:30:47 and MS virtual earth Jan 29 10:31:00 which I think has nicer street maps Jan 29 10:31:38 liri it can use google's data but doesn't use their web app Jan 29 10:31:59 i need to dig up a hack i wrote to use google maps with gpsd Jan 29 10:32:03 bmidgley: it just implements their api for the maps? Jan 29 10:32:08 you have to hack around the javascript sandbox Jan 29 10:32:34 liri it uses their "internal" api which is actually verboten Jan 29 10:32:52 bmidgley: umm so does it require you to be online when using googlemaps? Jan 29 10:33:02 liri no it caches them Jan 29 10:33:10 bmidgley: ahh nice Jan 29 10:33:56 bmidgley: unfortunately israel has no street mapping, only sat and terrain Jan 29 10:34:55 openstreetmap is trying to map it all, eh? Jan 29 10:35:12 yeah :) Jan 29 10:36:41 i see it only has a few major routes http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.328&lon=34.906&zoom=10&layers=B0FT Jan 29 10:37:38 oh it does have more in jerusalem Jan 29 10:38:08 still pretty weak Jan 29 10:38:17 g'night all Jan 29 10:39:04 'night Jan 29 10:39:24 I'll do some more testing with bluez cvs head :) Jan 29 10:55:55 morning Jan 29 10:56:30 Hello fatman xD Jan 29 10:56:49 how rude ;) Jan 29 10:57:29 oh sorry I thought it was your name not a faithful description of your appearance O,o Jan 29 10:58:16 more a faithful description of my dietary habits in the 1st year at uni Jan 29 11:00:02 Anyway, after my impressive experience with the gps yesterday (it didn't connect), I had a browse on ITT and noticed that the GPS is a Ti 3500 Jan 29 11:00:08 which supports AGPS Jan 29 11:00:18 the question is, can we enable this somehow? Jan 29 11:02:24 that could be interesting Jan 29 11:02:34 ah-ha, there is life :) Jan 29 11:02:43 undeath at least :) Jan 29 11:02:55 I understand there's a daemon called something like gpsdriver, anyone seen this? Jan 29 11:03:27 someone needs to send me an N810 so I can start hacking on it :) Jan 29 11:04:50 <_berto_> johnx: try here -> http://sense-datum.org/tim/archive/2008/01/24/a_gift_to_me_can_be_a_gift_to_/tim_samoff__weblog Jan 29 11:04:53 <_berto_> ;-) Jan 29 11:06:51 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=112892#post112892 Jan 29 11:07:11 yeah, I looked at that Jan 29 11:07:17 I think that's the right link: gpsdriver is closed source and doesn't tell us what params it takes Jan 29 11:07:26 ah Jan 29 11:07:29 http://tii.developerconference.ext.ti.com/post-conf/downloads/james-hymel.pdf p43 Jan 29 11:08:18 if you kill off GPSD and accept the consequences you can just talk to it through it's UART, right? Jan 29 11:08:23 now presumably when the user-side talks to the gps over /dev/ttyS0 (or is it S1?), it's actually talking to the GPS Controller hardware Jan 29 11:09:34 killing gpsd perhaps, then you just talk to the serial device, but if the gpsdriver is required to create or mediate the serial device, then it would be good to see what that does Jan 29 11:10:02 yeah Jan 29 11:10:54 but at what level is the agps stuff implemented I wonder Jan 29 11:11:36 interestingly, from that pdf, I see that the gps controller does power managment, which means there may be some clues in the kernel source Jan 29 11:12:08 on the link to the product page from the first post of that thread it looks like AGPS data is just fed to it via the UART connected to the OMAP Jan 29 11:12:23 (or at least it can be) Jan 29 11:13:31 yes, the question is can that be the same uart as the other control messages are sent over? Jan 29 11:13:45 in which case gpsdriver may be able to do something with it Jan 29 11:14:01 * |tbb| means, before you all hack the gps chip try to write drivers for powervr support ;) Jan 29 11:14:25 I was just interested, still thinking about PowerVR don't worry :) Jan 29 11:14:46 |tbb|, I think the powervr drivers would be a couple more orders of magnitude harder than telling some lies to a GPS chip :) Jan 29 11:16:08 <|tbb|> hehe ;) Jan 29 11:16:27 just makes it a better challenge ;) Jan 29 11:16:42 though I hear that the OMAP gaming SDKs have been removed from the Ti site Jan 29 11:18:10 anyone seen the gps chip? Jan 29 11:18:49 p42 of the pdf indicates that v2 has far more features (and is ~50mm^2 as opposed to ~80mm^2 for v1) Jan 29 11:29:01 I should add, that even though we don't have GSM built in (and therefore can't necessarily obtain precise information for our general location) Jan 29 11:29:35 (though we could use one of the existing location from ip services, I'm not sure how much extra data is needed at that location, or how much processing would be required to calculate it) Jan 29 11:30:01 we can use agps lto - long time orbit, which simply passes information about satellite locations Jan 29 11:30:06 s/can/could Jan 29 11:30:19 e.g. http://uc.gpsworld.com/gpsuc/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=262235 Jan 29 11:31:10 does that make sense? Jan 29 11:38:58 bmidgley: uhmm, I wonder if .fbl maps files can be used with maemo-mapper Jan 29 11:41:28 lardman, didn't read the whole log here, but just in case it didn't come up: gpsctrl.h has some functions that let you switch the chip on and off and to different power levels without using gpsd Jan 29 11:42:49 lardman: priming the AGPS with the iPod Touch's wifi-based triangulation would be very cool Jan 29 11:42:59 and gpsinternal.h is interesting in the sense that is shows that you can feed the last known position to the chip to speed up init... Jan 29 11:43:20 of course the actual libs are closed in chinook Jan 29 11:47:03 jku: in the kernel source? Jan 29 11:47:49 no, gpsmgr probably Jan 29 11:49:56 Jaffa: triangulation would be useful (assuming we don't need to do lots of calcs to generate data for that location), but just passing ephemeris data, etc. would be good Jan 29 11:50:00 lardman, libgpsbt actually Jan 29 11:50:16 Jaffa: how does the triagulation work, would be good for location services in any case Jan 29 11:50:21 jku: thanks Jan 29 11:51:19 anyone happen to have the N810 kernel config handy? Jan 29 11:51:49 the library definitions are fairly fuzzy -- personally I wouldn't have guessed that "libgpsbt" includes control functions for a GPS that has nothing to do with bluetooth... Jan 29 11:52:34 "Select between the IrDA and aGPS module" in the kernel patch Jan 29 11:52:42 probably doesn't mean much though Jan 29 11:52:55 jku, well, even gnuite didn't guess that selecting "bluetooth" with a blank MAC would automagically make the N810 GPS work in maemo mapper Jan 29 11:53:09 johnx, exactly Jan 29 11:53:19 lardman, Jaffa: I've been toying with an idea of a free wifi location service... Jan 29 11:53:55 actually did some wardriving tests (for data collection) with n810 Jan 29 11:54:12 jku: where's that libgpsbt source then? Jan 29 11:54:31 somwhere in a Nokia vault Jan 29 11:54:42 oh, so how have you seen it? Are you a Nokian? Jan 29 11:54:58 No. I just read headers :) Jan 29 11:55:08 and try the functions... Jan 29 11:55:14 ah, so where's the header then Jan 29 11:55:16 ? Jan 29 11:55:20 good morning Jan 29 11:55:29 mornin' b0unc3 Jan 29 11:55:42 morning b0unc3 Jan 29 11:56:25 lardman, install libgpsbt-dev (it's in the nokia binaries package) Jan 29 11:56:38 cool Jan 29 11:57:13 gpsbt and gpsmgr were free but got closed in chinook... Jan 29 11:57:38 no doubt because of some gps chip magic that they include Jan 29 11:58:08 well I think we're used to seeing that :/ Jan 29 11:58:31 damn.. the gps on my n810 appears to be broken ... Jan 29 11:58:46 b0unc3, won't get a lock? Jan 29 11:58:52 johnx: exactly Jan 29 11:58:59 the it works Jan 29 11:59:04 they take forever to lock Jan 29 11:59:04 then, even Jan 29 11:59:14 for-ev-er Jan 29 11:59:20 johnx: how much is 'forever' ? :| Jan 29 11:59:29 2^999 days Jan 29 11:59:33 :( Jan 29 11:59:40 one Unix epoch? Jan 29 11:59:49 the first lock is the longest Jan 29 11:59:54 well mine worked in 5min actually Jan 29 11:59:59 how long did you give it? Jan 29 12:00:07 lardman: really ? Jan 29 12:00:08 but it's not worked since, though I've not tried too hard Jan 29 12:00:10 yeah Jan 29 12:00:17 first lock that is Jan 29 12:00:18 hmm. i get a lock fairly quickly. it depends tho where i am. Jan 29 12:00:39 and also the position of the tablet affects. Jan 29 12:00:45 external gps is quicker imao. Jan 29 12:00:55 we need agps enabled ;) Jan 29 12:00:55 johnx: I have waited for 15min... Jan 29 12:01:16 agps would help. Jan 29 12:01:20 I don't have an N810 so I can't add my experience but I think the consensus would be "keep waiting" Jan 29 12:01:25 it's a bit like n95 without agps. Jan 29 12:01:28 same chip? Jan 29 12:01:41 b0unc3, is this indoors or outdoors? Jan 29 12:01:46 johnx: both Jan 29 12:01:58 ah well, keep waiting Jan 29 12:02:10 I think there is a thread on ITT where people compare notes about how long it took them Jan 29 12:02:30 uhm... ok .. I will search ... Jan 29 12:02:51 I think a couple people ended up just leaving it searching by a window overnight Jan 29 12:03:08 it's better after the first lock Jan 29 12:03:53 About the wifi positioning: it's entirely possible and would be quite accurate: I tried walking round the block constantly scanning networks: I got more than 200 networks with an average of more than 10 different observation points for each... Jan 29 12:04:36 well it is not that accurate. Jan 29 12:04:41 it is okay to give some estimation where you are. Jan 29 12:04:55 and of course is heavily dependent on the available wlans (fingerprints) Jan 29 12:05:05 Doni, what do you base that on? Jan 29 12:05:14 jku: my opinion? Jan 29 12:05:28 jku: experience Jan 29 12:05:39 have you tried this? Jan 29 12:05:54 yes. Jan 29 12:05:59 any links? Jan 29 12:06:00 is it possible to get the wifi chip to return the fingerprints and signal strengths though? Jan 29 12:06:00 Doni^, well if you're really lost one AP will get you within 300ft which would be better than nothing Jan 29 12:06:04 jku: no. Jan 29 12:06:10 lardman: yes Jan 29 12:06:19 johnx: yes, yes. it's okay. would be good for assisting gps. Jan 29 12:06:21 even with the closed source chip we use? Jan 29 12:06:34 Doni^, it would be better than nothing for us without GPS Jan 29 12:06:37 lardman, yes Jan 29 12:06:44 johnx: definitely. Jan 29 12:06:54 jku: oh, good Jan 29 12:07:22 thankfully only part of wifi driver is closed source Jan 29 12:07:22 Doni^, johnx: I'm guessinmg 30m accuracy is entirely possible in cities Jan 29 12:07:37 it would require good data on the server though Jan 29 12:07:49 jku: yes. basically. Jan 29 12:07:57 So what does one use, what is the fingerprint made up of? Hostip won't work unless you connect to them all Jan 29 12:08:09 MAC Jan 29 12:08:20 you mean how toidentify them? MAC address Jan 29 12:08:32 yes. i mean the idea is not to connect to the wlans Jan 29 12:08:35 you don't need to do that. Jan 29 12:08:36 (pretty much) globally unique Jan 29 12:08:57 Doni^: yep, was wondering whether there were already dbs for MACs Jan 29 12:08:58 you would have a database of wlan fingerprints and their geopositions Jan 29 12:09:12 lardman, yes but not free ones Jan 29 12:09:14 probably. but i guess not freely available. Jan 29 12:09:31 lardman, see wigle.net (12million APs) Jan 29 12:09:48 Would be easy enough to generate one from other people using the hostip/other ip based location services, just get them to report the MAC id and location abcl Jan 29 12:09:51 back even Jan 29 12:10:17 hostip is useless, would need gps Jan 29 12:10:34 that's why n810 would be the right platform... Jan 29 12:10:37 but how accurate do we need to be I wonder for agps? Jan 29 12:10:47 yes. you need to collect them with wlan+gps capable device. Jan 29 12:11:08 in order to place the wlan's on a map Jan 29 12:11:29 ok Jan 29 12:11:31 and from that map it is possible to calculate the position of the device using wlan only. by some error margin. Jan 29 12:11:39 yep Jan 29 12:12:04 Doni^, any chance you could share your experience on wlan mapping? I can give my email address if you prefer private... Jan 29 12:12:13 hmm, still need something to boostrap agps with and i wonder if hostip is accurate enough, I'd imagine so Jan 29 12:12:27 maybe we can convince the openstreetmap guys to help, given that they're already driving around with a GPS :) Jan 29 12:12:30 jku: sure. Jan 29 12:15:35 I note there's nothing about AGPS on the roadmap, I wonder if something is planned or not Jan 29 12:16:30 johnx, the problem is that most of them are working with GPS devices that have no WLAN chip... Jan 29 12:17:10 jku, they seem like the sort of people who might have a laptop or PDA though :) Jan 29 12:17:22 true and there is a large wardriving community that might get interested "for the common good" Jan 29 12:17:48 <_collin_> people are still wardriving??? Jan 29 12:17:49 got to go see a man about a shoulder Jan 29 12:17:54 read: "an excuse to drive around and search for APs" Jan 29 12:18:21 _collin_, wigle.net has _12 million_ APs and you can't even use their data for anything -- people have weird hobbies Jan 29 12:18:34 <_collin_> :)) Jan 29 12:18:36 _collin_, remember when wardriving was the new thing? Jan 29 12:18:48 <_collin_> yes I do Jan 29 12:19:28 <_collin_> around 1999,2000 maybe end 2001 Jan 29 12:20:18 With my new n810, i do kebabdriving. I roam the neighbourhood, and i note each doner i found as a maemomapper POI. Jan 29 12:20:21 * melmoth loves it Jan 29 12:20:38 <_collin_> melmoth: :) Jan 29 12:20:43 diner? Jan 29 12:21:01 melmoth, you in berlin or somethin :-) Jan 29 12:21:09 hi there, is there any way to access contact's fields with python ? maybe a dbus interface ? Jan 29 12:21:13 ah, france Jan 29 12:21:23 Paris (but in a part of paris where there are not enough good kebab place) Jan 29 12:21:59 why not use the internal map software which will show you any nearby POIs? :p Jan 29 12:21:59 you threw me with doner. Jan 29 12:22:25 bencer, python-abook maybe? Jan 29 12:22:36 was expecting turks, not algerians :-) Jan 29 12:22:46 thanks jku :) Jan 29 12:30:42 H.. osso-xterm doesn't notice a terminated shell? ^D closes the shell, but the window stays? Jan 29 12:32:23 I'm annoyed by that too Jan 29 12:34:28 * dpb_ too Jan 29 12:36:19 <_collin_> Blafasel: you are using iodine, right? do you have a nice addon script for running it? Jan 29 12:39:20 re Jan 29 12:40:40 _collin_: No, not at all yet. I'll try to come up with something, though. I'd like to have a way to create a "connection" via iodine from the GUI Jan 29 12:40:53 Maybe I can look into it tonight Jan 29 12:41:27 <_collin_> Blafasel: ah ok, I would suggest Python Jan 29 12:42:11 I'll drop you a line if I can get something running Jan 29 12:43:52 <_collin_working_> Blafasel: cool Jan 29 12:44:48 lardman|away/jku: I read an article which said the iPod's location is done by a company providing the service. They drive around with a GPS, identifying ESSIDs being broadcast at locations. 70% of US covered, expanding Europe and Asia coverage ATM. Colleague's iPod Touch worked very well with it in London. Jan 29 12:45:03 * Jaffa has considered packet sniffing an iPod to see if it's directly usable ;-) Jan 29 12:45:54 Jaffa, it's skyhookwireless, AFAIK. They're the biggest in the field Jan 29 12:49:06 jku: Yeah, that was it. Struggled to remember the name. Jan 29 12:57:34 Doni^, only just noticed you're a finn: if you manage to mail me some info, feel free to do it in finnish... Jan 29 13:08:43 jku: ok Jan 29 13:17:21 Jaffa: I wonder how easy would be to misplace an iPod using messed up ESSIDs! :0 Jan 29 13:17:53 :D Jan 29 13:21:27 maddler: :-) Jan 29 13:25:56 <|tbb|> jaffa: but nice they try to doing something. is it not possible to collect the mac of an ap with combinate essid. Jan 29 13:27:04 |tbb|: why not? Jan 29 13:28:10 they would be crazy not to be using the MAC (aka BSSID) of the network and simply ignoring ad-hoc networks entirely Jan 29 13:30:48 <|tbb|> the icd of nokia seems that dumb, cause it try connects to an ap which got the same name as it stored in iap Jan 29 13:31:36 icd is super dumb in so many ways Jan 29 13:31:47 qgil's blog post on Trolltech acquisition is good. Jan 29 13:32:09 Jaffa: link? Jan 29 13:32:24 <|tbb|> jaffa, lol Jan 29 13:33:07 hugolp, http://flors.wordpress.com/ I think Jan 29 13:37:52 http://flors.wordpress.com/2008/01/29/gnomes-trolls-and-the-maemo-lands/ Jan 29 13:38:44 <|tbb|> 1. offline mode 2. wlan on but not connected to any ap and search for ap set to never, will the first method save more batterypower and how much if so? Jan 29 13:41:16 offline also disables bluetooth, but that doesn't change all that much Jan 29 13:56:19 * Jaffa raises an icd bug based on our recent discussion and various problems discussed on ITT: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2857 Jan 29 14:00:02 I wonder how skyhook gets its data when I am not connected to an AP Jan 29 14:00:54 oh, it seems it has a local cache Jan 29 14:00:59 has anyone tried to compile lftp for IT's ? Jan 29 14:15:57 * lardman now has a yellow rubber band for his shoulder Jan 29 14:17:39 Hello, how to turn on/off the gps receiver from commandline on N810? Jan 29 14:19:45 micko_21: there's probably some dbus message you could use Jan 29 14:19:59 micko_21: so some listening when you start one of the apps and see what they say Jan 29 14:25:09 http://pastebin.ca/878575 <- any idea what this means (while trying to install to n810). This package installs just fine in scratchbox Jan 29 14:25:42 run out of disk space? Jan 29 14:26:15 could be one possibility Jan 29 14:26:16 ...or memory card damaged? Jan 29 14:26:33 (or wherever it's reading the package from) Jan 29 14:26:57 Veggen: it should be writing to, or? "failed to write" Jan 29 14:26:59 LoCusF, check that the deb is not damaged in transfer Jan 29 14:27:13 mm, looks like it's write yes. Jan 29 14:27:26 debian w/ epiphany-webkit: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/debianepiphany-webkit.png Jan 29 14:27:34 I'd install strace and run it through that. Jan 29 14:28:38 jku: ok Jan 29 14:29:45 I guess I should add that the screenshot was taken on an N800 :) Jan 29 14:29:58 michele: you found some info on the technical detail of how it works? Jan 29 14:32:21 <_collin_working_> johnx: oh wow ... are you working on this? Jan 29 14:33:11 I'm just putting parts together Jan 29 14:33:26 <_collin_working_> sure but still a lot of work/knowledge Jan 29 14:33:38 Veggen: you knew Jan 29 14:33:45 and quite a bit of hacking around :) Jan 29 14:33:57 Jaffa: no, I just read the "how it works" page Jan 29 14:33:58 the thing is that it was /media/mmc2 that had the problem :/ Jan 29 14:35:16 LoCusF, what I thought... FAT should be banned Jan 29 14:35:28 jku: yup Jan 29 14:36:42 michele: ah Jan 29 14:37:53 does someone want the package, it works ok on my n810 Jan 29 14:38:10 Jaffa: it says it has a local cache, but when connected you will have better accuracy and updates to the data Jan 29 14:39:21 and the client on your own device will be updating the global data Jan 29 14:40:35 michele: very cool. I wonder how likely it is that the connection between device and service is just plain, reproducible, HTTP Jan 29 14:41:54 Jaffa: for sure it has authentication Jan 29 14:42:07 there is a tiny example on the site Jan 29 14:42:30 Jaffa: I would guess at least https Jan 29 14:50:47 Humm, is there something with my email server or client, or is someone else receiving maemo-dev mails thrice? Jan 29 14:51:28 I'm only getting them once afaict Jan 29 14:51:32 I'm ok, perhaps you're just lucky Jan 29 14:51:41 Seems so Jan 29 14:51:42 I do seem to get them in the wrong order sometimes though Jan 29 14:53:36 what is with all these trolls on the dev-list? "I've never used gtk, but qt has a much nicer api..." Jan 29 14:54:13 well, it's not called trolltech for nothing... Jan 29 14:54:22 olololol Jan 29 14:54:28 * Nermal keels over Jan 29 14:54:33 'night all Jan 29 14:54:36 * johnx sleeps Jan 29 14:54:40 The sight of C++ does that Jan 29 14:54:51 both falling asleep and keeling over Jan 29 14:55:00 Juhaz: excellent point Jan 29 14:55:56 * Nermal unsubscribed from maemo-dev when he couldn't see a way of making the maemo mail app only flash the light and alerts for certain mail folders Jan 29 14:59:46 Tak, I haven't seen any, maybe gmail's spam filter has gone berserk again Jan 29 15:01:16 has anybody disassembled an N810 and took pictures? Jan 29 15:02:15 <_collin_working_> I guess it is kind of hard to get at the moment, right? Jan 29 15:21:35 hey all Jan 29 15:21:49 lo :) Jan 29 15:23:10 can I repartition the internal memory card to use ext2? Jan 29 15:23:14 on n810? Jan 29 15:23:38 <_collin_working_> what is it? FAT? Jan 29 15:24:08 yeah Jan 29 15:24:27 <_collin_working_> it probably is to be useable when the device is in usb-disk mode Jan 29 15:24:38 <_collin_working_> that is what you loos if you switch to ext Jan 29 15:24:58 <_collin_working_> it will only work on a linux box Jan 29 15:25:07 ext2 works on the n800 Jan 29 15:25:19 <_collin_working_> sure Jan 29 15:25:19 it just doesn't auto-mount, you have to mount it manually Jan 29 15:25:44 what about fstab? Jan 29 15:25:51 yeah you could probably edit the fstab Jan 29 15:26:20 though I think what collin is saying is that you won't be able to plug it into a Windows box and have access to the cards if they're formatted as ext2 Jan 29 15:26:21 could you post your fstab? Jan 29 15:26:26 add "auto" to the options :) Jan 29 15:26:30 hey, flash stopped working on my n800's browser...any ideas ? (chinook) Jan 29 15:27:00 <_collin_working_> lophyte: that was my point :) Jan 29 15:27:05 MoRpHeUz, make sure the plugin is enabled Jan 29 15:27:08 I thought so Jan 29 15:28:14 anyone know where canola downloads podcast files to? Jan 29 15:30:30 tank-man: thanks...I dont know how it was disabled (or even more important, who hehe) thanks Jan 29 15:30:30 =) Jan 29 15:30:34 <_collin_working_> I was also wondering, since I actually want to download to an external sd card Jan 29 15:30:44 <_collin_working_> also I want automatic downloads Jan 29 15:31:18 _collin_working_, me too Jan 29 15:32:11 <_collin_working_> canola looks nice but is way to slow, so right now I download via browser copy via usb and use the mediaplayer Jan 29 15:32:25 I don't find it slow Jan 29 15:32:41 <_collin_working_> startup time? download speed? Jan 29 15:32:45 <_collin_working_> gui is fast Jan 29 15:32:47 <_collin_working_> sure Jan 29 15:33:07 true enough Jan 29 15:33:09 eh, and the mediaplayer has a slow UI too... Jan 29 15:33:36 videocenter works fine for podcast (can save to external card but no automatic dl iirc) Jan 29 15:33:49 it uses mediaplayer or mplayer to play Jan 29 15:36:00 videocenter eh, maybe I'll give it a try Jan 29 15:36:47 maybe I should just write a python script to check for new podcasts and download them Jan 29 15:37:10 and run it in a cronjob Jan 29 15:39:21 ok, reformatting now :) Jan 29 15:39:36 backed up first of course :) Jan 29 15:43:57 michele: have you downloaded the Skyhook Wireless SDK? http://www.skyhookwireless.com/developers/sdk.php Jan 29 15:44:09 It claims Linux support (but presumably x86) Jan 29 15:44:15 umm it won't unmount ;( Jan 29 15:44:29 <_collin_working_> some app has some open files on it Jan 29 15:44:52 checked with fuser and lsof, no apps with open files Jan 29 15:45:01 <_collin_working_> mmh Jan 29 15:45:10 <_collin_working_> what error? Jan 29 15:45:13 <_collin_working_> any error Jan 29 15:45:29 device or resource busy Jan 29 15:45:38 <_collin_working_> cd / Jan 29 15:45:43 <_collin_working_> umount ... Jan 29 15:45:52 /c/c Jan 29 15:46:20 didn't work :) Jan 29 15:46:28 I was at home folder Jan 29 15:46:59 gaah directory whatnot Jan 29 15:49:55 oh yeah swap Jan 29 15:51:30 ok disabled swap, that did it Jan 29 15:52:32 Whoa. jku/michele/lardman: registered for Skyhook Wireless SDK. Linux download is indeed Linux 2.6 (x86), however there's a Maemo 3.1 tarball. Jan 29 15:52:56 Jaffa: License? Jan 29 15:53:25 Jaffa: what is it? Jan 29 15:54:35 oh, essid based triangulation.. Jan 29 15:57:30 Jaffa: ah, that's interesting Jan 29 15:58:48 Jaffa: I am curious to know if/how it works... Jan 29 15:59:06 lardman: lazy bummer! still no blog post! :D Jan 29 15:59:28 maddler: yeah, yeah! Jan 29 15:59:42 hehehe Jan 29 15:59:44 maddler: I've got to remember what I was doing first Jan 29 15:59:46 :) Jan 29 16:01:05 * Jaffa is checking the executables to see if they're x86 or ARM binaries. Given it's command line it may work on chinook Jan 29 16:01:39 And this is a development SDK, not a "you can release this" thing Jan 29 16:01:47 Commercial releases require $ Jan 29 16:02:06 wpsd: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, not stripped Jan 29 16:02:18 lardman: hehehe... I keep forgetting what I was doing as soon as I switch windows! :D Jan 29 16:02:46 oooh crap Jan 29 16:02:58 the backup seemed to have failed Jan 29 16:03:40 Hmm.. screen would be nice. Hopefully I finally get started tonight with some fiddling Jan 29 16:05:23 Any suggestions on what libiw might be? Jan 29 16:05:31 <_collin_working_> wireless tools Jan 29 16:05:37 Yup, Google was my friend Jan 29 16:06:04 <_collin_working_> but should be on the device... Jan 29 16:06:22 <_collin_working_> or maybe I just linked statically Jan 29 16:06:52 No, it is - but bora had libiw.so.28, chinook has libiw.so.29 Jan 29 16:07:11 <_collin_working_> right Jan 29 16:09:01 Bah. segfault. Jan 29 16:11:20 Hmm.. Does "type" work for anyone in a shell? Jan 29 16:12:33 type? isn't that a DOS command? Jan 29 16:13:36 Uhm. No. Yes, as well. Jan 29 16:13:46 But obviously that's not what I'm talking about ;) Jan 29 16:13:49 is it difficult to port the x86 application to Maemo linux? Jan 29 16:14:10 ubuntu files... Jan 29 16:14:16 gentoo.. Jan 29 16:14:40 probably a bit advanced to be included in the default busybox Jan 29 16:14:58 Blafasel: I think type is a bash builtin Jan 29 16:15:00 * michele checks Jan 29 16:15:00 K-Fox: which application? Jan 29 16:15:09 $ type type Jan 29 16:15:09 type is a shell builtin Jan 29 16:15:16 K-Fox: depends on the application. Varies between works out of the box (e.g. shell scripts, Perl, Python) to really quite tricky (Qt apps, Java) Jan 29 16:15:33 michele: If you just type "type", does it crash for you? Jan 29 16:15:37 It does for me, at least. Jan 29 16:16:07 Tak: type is similar to which, but it also tells you if something is an alias or what Jan 29 16:16:15 Blafasel: haven't tried on an IT Jan 29 16:16:36 well we're using ash not bash Jan 29 16:16:44 michele: Ah.. Well, that's the problem though ;) Crashes for me (and the shell dies..) if it gets no argument Jan 29 16:16:48 how unusual Jan 29 16:17:07 jaffa: ok Jan 29 16:17:18 So "type type" works, "type" tears down the shell (& ssh connection etc.). Odd. Jan 29 16:20:33 yes, crashes here too Jan 29 16:21:22 Blafasel: there's a bug in Bugzilla about it IIRC Jan 29 16:22:07 Jaffa: Ok, thanks. Have limited connectivity here (this is via ssh/screen/irssi..), couldn't search the web at work. Jan 29 16:36:11 <|tbb|> gotta go cya later Jan 29 16:37:28 Is there a version of Octave for os2008 knocking about? Jan 29 16:38:36 does osso-xterm support fonts in .pcf.gz format? Jan 29 16:38:48 Got a new phone from my brother as he bought an N95 8G .. But this damn N80 is locked to Vodaphone and I want to be on Orange .. Jan 29 16:39:02 Gonna cost me a pretty penny to unlock this bugger .. Jan 29 16:39:33 cheaper than a new phone though ;) Jan 29 16:39:37 I guess. Jan 29 16:39:42 I'd still rather not pay. Jan 29 16:39:53 Locked phones really p*ss me off .. Jan 29 16:39:53 alterego, could you just download new softwre and install? Jan 29 16:40:01 Can I do that? Jan 29 16:40:09 I think so Jan 29 16:40:27 I have an option for my 6233 Jan 29 16:40:31 I'm really out of touch with the phone side of technology :) Jan 29 16:40:40 no biggie Jan 29 16:40:49 your brother might be able to get the phone unlocked for you if that doens't work Jan 29 16:41:03 once the network have recouped the cost they tend to unlock them for a fee Jan 29 16:41:14 lardman, yeah. I was just thinking about that. He should be able to phone up his carrier and get the unlock code right? Jan 29 16:41:34 yep, but it normally costs some fee Jan 29 16:41:46 if you can reflash the firmware that's a cheaper option Jan 29 16:41:47 Hmm Jan 29 16:41:59 nokia site could help Jan 29 16:42:02 "administration fee" I think they call it ;D Jan 29 16:42:03 I'm gonna continue to explore all my avenues before I decide what to do. Jan 29 16:42:25 I doubt phoning Nokia and asking them for it will work :) Jan 29 16:42:45 hm, gmsarena? Jan 29 16:42:45 probably not :) Jan 29 16:43:08 so, no-one's compiled Octave yet? Jan 29 16:43:16 alterego: ask around some unlock shops Jan 29 16:43:53 Yeah, I'm gonna pay a visit to my friend who works at the local Nokia authorized dealer place. Jan 29 16:44:08 hehe.. Jan 29 16:44:20 i reckon some unofficial places would be better Jan 29 16:44:34 londons chinatown is full of 'em anyhow Jan 29 16:44:38 when I look at a page like this: http://packages.debian.org/sid/octave3.0 and see all those deps I don't need, it makes me cry Jan 29 16:45:01 * lardman must work out how to cleanly remove deps from a debian build package Jan 29 16:46:48 Jaffa: what's the deal with the skyhook files then? Jan 29 16:51:18 Wow, the mobile web browser on this thing is pretty awesome. Jan 29 16:52:21 I got round the lock code on the n800 Jan 29 16:52:27 Obviously that doesn't matter though. As my N810 is for browsing :) Jan 29 16:52:31 oh Jan 29 16:52:35 different conversation :) Jan 29 16:53:13 Octave? Jan 29 16:53:28 the language? Jan 29 16:53:43 lardman|gone: segfaulted on running (I cp'ed /lib/libiw.so.29 to /usr/local/lib/libiw.so.28), help was output but running it got sigsegv. Emailed them to ask if they're going to compile a chinook version. Jan 29 17:00:41 ok... time to head home... Jan 29 17:00:46 l8r dudes... Jan 29 17:01:05 http://www.hydrogen-music.org/images/screenshots/hydrogen-0.9.2.png Jan 29 17:01:10 too bad it uses Qt :) Jan 29 17:01:49 maybe I can statically link? Jan 29 17:04:26 Jaffa, I'm not interested enough to test skyhook. It'll cost money to use and any interesting bits are going to be in the triangulation algorithms which are a) closed and b) patented up the wazoo Jan 29 17:05:07 http://gneutronica.sourceforge.net/pattern_editor.png Jan 29 17:05:10 gneutronica compiles :) Jan 29 17:05:57 that screenshot is completely wrong - I don't see /anything/ on the Cowbell track... Jan 29 17:06:04 haha Jan 29 17:07:10 http://muth.org/Robert/Trommler/screenshot.3.7.png Jan 29 17:07:22 Trommler also compiles (not trying PyTrommler yet) Jan 29 17:09:39 so... who should I contact if my maemo rebate code doesn't work ? Jan 29 17:17:12 http://xoops.widelands.org/modules/xcgal/albums/userpics/10001/Widelands-reactos.jpg Jan 29 17:17:29 Widelands is happily compiling now, performance is another matter ;) Jan 29 17:17:50 Stella is also compiling fine -- would you want to add that to xmaeme, Tak? Jan 29 17:18:06 jku: true, but I'm in happy happy greedy user mode atm ;-) Jan 29 17:18:42 hmm. maybe not. Jan 29 17:18:59 doesn't stella have a builtin launcher? http://stella.sourceforge.net/game-images/launcher.png Jan 29 17:19:51 ah, I suppose so. Jan 29 17:26:35 geany compiles -> http://geany.uvena.de/images/geany_main.png Jan 29 17:27:35 BTW -- my plan is to debianize these all in sets after I profile apps with similar porting issues together Jan 29 17:28:16 jku: What was the package I need to install in Scratchbox to get those gps headers? Jan 29 17:30:21 lardman, libgpsbt-dev iirc Jan 29 17:34:41 http://mange.dynalias.org/linux/gproftpd/screenshots/gproftpd_user_directories.png Jan 29 17:34:53 slomo, that patch for mpeg2enc you applied breaks the build here Jan 29 17:35:20 gproftpd compiles fine, the entire gadmintools might be nice to have for some. Jan 29 17:35:48 slomo, was meant to send you that on #gstreamer :) Jan 29 17:35:51 what's the apt-* command to list the files in a package? Jan 29 17:36:20 dpkg --contents ? Jan 29 17:37:06 ah, if it's already installed? Jan 29 17:37:18 apt-cache showpkg may? Jan 29 17:37:27 no, doesn't show contents Jan 29 17:37:46 --listfiles perhaps Jan 29 17:38:01 yep, dpkg --listfiles Jan 29 17:39:14 thanks chaps Jan 29 17:41:00 hey, does anyone know if i can mount drives from the host environment in scratch box? Jan 29 17:47:50 mount --bind Jan 29 17:48:25 I use mount --bind to mount $HOME/src into /scratchbox/blah/blah/blah/rootstrap/home/jfisher/src Jan 29 17:48:38 do it in the host environment though. Jan 29 17:49:38 ah, i see now Jan 29 17:49:40 cheers Jan 29 17:50:07 http://quadra.sourceforge.net/images/shot-02.jpg Jan 29 17:50:27 doesn't compile yet, but looks like it could be fun. (multiplayer tetris) Jan 29 17:51:54 * lardman_ needs slice Jan 29 17:55:49 lincity compiles -> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/6/66/20070102011507!Lincity.png Jan 29 17:56:49 /lots/ of stuff compiles Jan 29 17:57:12 fysa: are you listing every app you've compiled in Scratchbox, cos that could get very boring very quickly ;-) Jan 29 17:57:46 just the apps that I'd like to debianize Jan 29 17:58:10 but I'll stop now ;) Jan 29 17:58:46 urg, thought I'd be able to compile Octave quickly, but now I remember we're missing a FORTRAN compiler Jan 29 18:00:54 fysa: go for it, man Jan 29 18:12:28 aaargh! The browser is driving me insane Jan 29 18:12:40 On ITT, it takes forever to load a page, even with images turned off Jan 29 18:12:47 phew, I feel better now Jan 29 18:13:12 did you try raising ng render delay in about:config? Jan 29 18:13:26 no, what does that do? Jan 29 18:13:33 ng? Jan 29 18:13:53 by default, for me, it was set to -1 which isn't a proper value -- I believe it ends up being 0, which is basically real-time rendering of HTML Jan 29 18:13:53 it seems to sit there are loading 14/15, God knows what that is Jan 29 18:14:19 any tag that comes in gets rendered instantly -- I raised mine to 500, which should wait 500ms before attempting to render. Jan 29 18:14:27 lardman_: ITT is IMO dog slow even on desktop... Jan 29 18:14:50 zuh: yeah, too many bloody pictures Jan 29 18:14:54 pages seem to load faster over-all if you don't bog down the renderer while it's trying to manage all the connections Jan 29 18:15:12 fysa: I'll have a look at that, thanks Jan 29 18:15:32 the default is around 300-1000 as recommended by various mozilla reports/buglist Jan 29 18:15:44 lardman_: That, and something in the design seems to make the page reflow the whole structure many times Jan 29 18:15:53 that's what I'm talking about, zuh Jan 29 18:16:14 if you have it wait a bit before trying to render anything, it seems to waste less time rendering it improperly first Jan 29 18:16:31 hmm Jan 29 18:16:38 * Tak will try fysa's tip Jan 29 18:16:47 ng paint delay maybe. Jan 29 18:17:29 Well, tried "updating" the software and it didn't remove the SIM lock unfortunately. Jan 29 18:17:37 Guess I'll have to phone voda crap :/ Jan 29 18:17:43 you can also increase the number of simultaneous connections -- I doubled the default values Jan 29 18:18:43 hmm, appears to have locked up loading about:config Jan 29 18:23:12 :( Jan 29 18:23:25 just sits there with the scrolly bar half way across and locks up Jan 29 18:23:33 close all/restart browser? Jan 29 18:23:50 yeah, I've had to kill it a few times already Jan 29 18:24:03 can you go to a regular page first and then do about:config? Jan 29 18:24:09 in the same window? Jan 29 18:24:18 I remember it locking a few times for me before. I might have had to reboot. Jan 29 18:24:31 like the home page? That doesn't work nor an internet page Jan 29 18:24:43 yeah, I need to enable R&D mode anyway Jan 29 18:27:00 do os2007 command line apps work on os2008? I don't see why they wouldn't Jan 29 18:28:33 lardman_: shared libraries, dependencies? Jan 29 18:29:54 google.com Jan 29 18:30:09 heh Jan 29 18:30:26 fysa, the paint delay helped a fair bit. Jan 29 18:30:56 which value are you using? Jan 29 18:31:36 500 Jan 29 18:31:44 ooo. Liferea + WebKit would be nice. v Jan 29 18:31:47 http://liferea.sourceforge.net/screenshots/combined.png Jan 29 18:32:25 Looks like it'd fit pretty well. Jan 29 18:32:59 I want that "Unread" folder. Jan 29 18:33:14 don't like how the built-in reader makes me scroll through my entire list to see what has new stuff ;) Jan 29 18:33:36 fysa: Did you talk about nglayout.initialpaint.delay? Jan 29 18:33:42 that's what it is. Jan 29 18:33:48 nglayout.initialpaint.delay Jan 29 18:33:48 Hmm.. -3? Jan 29 18:34:10 I tried to find an underlying meaning for the negative value, but came up with nothing. Jan 29 18:34:34 like GeneralAntilles said, seems to run better set to something sensible Jan 29 18:34:43 The temporal-adjustment plugin wasn't finished. Jan 29 18:34:51 Blafasel: hopefully backward compatible Jan 29 18:35:08 i looked at that. changed it to 250. it didnt do much Jan 29 18:35:14 lardman_, some stuff hard-links against the old versions. Jan 29 18:35:23 you close all browsers/reopen? 250 may still be low. Jan 29 18:35:27 Did you restart it, smackpotato? Jan 29 18:35:30 Er, yeah. Jan 29 18:35:34 it definitely works -- set it to 3000 and you will wait 3 seconds before it renders anything. Jan 29 18:35:54 given the speed of our devices/wifi, I would keep it 500 or higher. Jan 29 18:35:55 Can someone point me to some code to rotate the screen? Jan 29 18:36:01 ok Jan 29 18:36:12 250 is OK for the desktop Jan 29 18:36:21 ya Jan 29 18:36:21 (real firefox) Jan 29 18:37:17 k Jan 29 18:38:26 fysa: heh just tested hydrogen you mentioned earlier.. runs quite nice on the n810 :) Jan 29 18:38:38 nice! Jan 29 18:38:42 GeneralAntilles, Blafasel: Octave is ok Jan 29 18:38:48 liferea looks really nice Jan 29 18:38:48 just compile and run? Jan 29 18:39:00 does anyone have a utillity that keeps the screen on Jan 29 18:39:06 yes, I am very excited about liferea. Jan 29 18:39:09 fysa: yeah.. debian/sid backport Jan 29 18:39:49 it seems to miss a fullscreen option though.. :/ Jan 29 18:39:54 it uses Qt.. Jan 29 18:39:56 quite some space wasted.. Jan 29 18:39:57 that could be why. Jan 29 18:40:02 and gnuplot also works from os2007, phew Jan 29 18:40:14 well.. qt apps can also support fullscreen ,) Jan 29 18:40:19 Okay, quick poll: I want to get started with small apps for my toy here. I'm earning my money with java/.net and know some perl/shell stuff, but no python, ruby (or C). What would you suggest, what has nice hildon bindings? Jan 29 18:40:23 and it's a typical app you may want to run in fs. Jan 29 18:40:43 maybe the full-screen button doesn't work with Qt apps? Jan 29 18:40:54 Blafasel: Realistically C, but Python is easy and has lots of bindings Jan 29 18:41:02 no..full-screen button does not work for sure.. but i hoped for a menu entry ;) Jan 29 18:41:11 ah Jan 29 18:41:36 Blafasel, C and python are your only real choices Jan 29 18:41:40 lardman_: Are there some nice tutorials on maemo.org somewhere? Hello World in Hildon? ;) Jan 29 18:41:48 jku: *sigh*.. C then ;) Jan 29 18:41:49 Ruby is an option, too. Jan 29 18:41:55 there are lovely tutorials, Blafasel. Jan 29 18:41:58 fysa: but otherwise this thing runs amazingly well .. Jan 29 18:42:05 slick. Jan 29 18:42:14 atleast all the demos play without stutter Jan 29 18:42:40 Blafasel: for c or python? Jan 29 18:42:41 (but cpu is at 100% and ui gets a bit sluggish.. but no wonder) Jan 29 18:42:49 lardman_: C Jan 29 18:43:09 GeneralAntilles,"nice bindings" was part of the question... Jan 29 18:43:09 well basic gtk+, then some minor tweaks to Hildonise which are in the tutorials Jan 29 18:43:24 which version is that, jott? Jan 29 18:43:24 i'd take -1 to mean disabled, like boolean false Jan 29 18:43:34 "Fixed various bugs related to Jack audio driver; Fixed 100% CPU usage bug." Jan 29 18:43:37 lardman_: Okay, will search for gtk+ stuff then Jan 29 18:43:44 that's as of 22 Feb 06 Jan 29 18:43:50 fysa: oh.. 0.9.3 .. Jan 29 18:44:02 ah, that's latest anyway Jan 29 18:44:14 wait - Jan 29 18:44:19 0.9.3 was releasd on 22 Feb 06 Jan 29 18:44:24 well it's 400Mhz so we can assume 100% cpu usage is quite reasonable while mixing multiple tracks and doing fancy ui effects ;) Jan 29 18:44:29 svn is newer. Jan 29 18:44:33 definitely :) Jan 29 18:44:43 that will be a fun app to play with on the plane. Jan 29 18:45:06 Blafasel: For quick stuff Python is quite good though Jan 29 18:45:34 dphil9000: for paintdelay? I thought so also, but it's impossible to disable. It ends up defaulting to 0 delay. Jan 29 18:45:59 hmm Jan 29 18:46:02 fysa: yeah.. i also have schism tracker running... also quite nice (more of an oldskool tracker) Jan 29 18:46:21 drat, ssh isn't working Jan 29 18:46:49 lardman_: Not my style, if those two options are the best I'll prefer brushing up my (weak) C skillsets Jan 29 18:47:00 * jott starts 2nd Reality - Unreal ][ (PM).s3m in schism tracker on his n810 :) Jan 29 18:47:19 gneutronica and trommler are simple drum machine-type interfaces that seem to work Jan 29 18:47:28 Blafasel: Python can also be altered on the device, no compiler needed, which may be an advantage Jan 29 18:47:29 one of those may be OSS though Jan 29 18:48:18 plus python comes with a nice pygtk tutorial :) Jan 29 18:48:52 I hate that tutoria; Jan 29 18:49:01 I'd far prefer a book Jan 29 18:49:11 Vala! Jan 29 18:49:15 a book on pygtk ? Is there one ? Jan 29 18:49:22 what the heck is Vala? Jan 29 18:49:23 I don't think so Jan 29 18:49:24 the only gtk book i saw were c targeted Jan 29 18:49:35 http://live.gnome.org/Vala Jan 29 18:49:41 * lardman_ just doesn't like online tutorials Jan 29 18:49:48 voila? Jan 29 18:50:04 Vala seems really cool, but haven't tried anything other than a Hello world Jan 29 18:50:14 ce n'est pas "voila" :-P Jan 29 18:50:27 jku: xmaeme 0.13 is in vala Jan 29 18:50:51 ooo Jan 29 18:51:02 tak, oh? nice Jan 29 18:51:05 yeah, vala is what you should use Blafasel. ;) Jan 29 18:51:21 http://live.gnome.org/Vala/HildonSample Jan 29 18:51:37 cool that the GNOME guys realized that pure C isn't the thing for newbies these days :) Jan 29 18:52:21 fysa: Vala looks interesting, yes Jan 29 18:52:32 hey ho! Jan 29 18:52:35 Might be even a better choice for me Jan 29 18:54:21 They're planning to automatically generate bindings, but I'm not sure how complete the current ones are... Jan 29 18:54:24 <|tbb|> re Jan 29 18:54:58 the gtk and hildon bindings are pretty complete Jan 29 18:55:09 at least for hildon-1 and hildon-fm-2 Jan 29 18:55:24 nice, I'll have to take a look Jan 29 18:56:32 I can't find the daphne source? Jan 29 18:56:51 What does the NMEA message PNOKU do/mean? Jan 29 18:57:02 oh, there it is. Jan 29 18:57:06 is there such a message? Jan 29 18:57:24 indeed, looking at strings, and from a google: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=134527 Jan 29 18:58:10 lardman_, just because a device outputs it doesn't mean it's nmea. a lot of manufacturers make up their own messages Jan 29 18:58:42 yeah, I was wondering what it meant though, it's certainly not standard Jan 29 18:58:48 my fault for not explaining Jan 29 18:59:17 yes, right Jan 29 19:00:35 The start letter P stands for proprietary Jan 29 19:01:16 oh, I didn't even know that. Never worked with them, just noticed they exist Jan 29 19:02:25 the next 3 letters are supposed to be a manufacturer code apparently... "NOK" Jan 29 19:02:53 http://www.windmill.co.uk/nmea.html for example Jan 29 19:03:34 allows lots of devices to provide and you can decide what you want Jan 29 19:05:45 Is there any lib/api to control this nice led on the corner of my n810? Jan 29 19:06:56 <|tbb|> Blafasel: you can define colors etc. by /etc/mce/mce.ini and later start or stop it by dbus Jan 29 19:09:00 Ah, thanks Jan 29 19:10:35 <|tbb|> inform me if you find out whats the njoy format ;) Jan 29 19:11:00 http://www.happypenguin.org/images/vultures2shop.png - this should work fine (slashem/nethack with isometric 2D graphics) Jan 29 19:12:01 who needs a lava lamp when you can have "PatternPsychedelia" ;) Jan 29 19:12:30 jku: I've grabbed those headers, am going to take a look at the gspdriver file to see what arguments it takes Jan 29 19:13:42 I assume the libs just push something to the control socket (defined in one header) Jan 29 19:13:49 <|tbb|> jott: this was one of the main goal from the designer of the n810, n900 replace coffee machine hopefully Jan 29 19:14:03 * Tak agree with |tbb| Jan 29 19:14:05 jku: yes, I'll take a look at that, depending on how complex the code is Jan 29 19:14:17 cool Jan 29 19:14:28 supper first, will be back a bit later on Jan 29 19:16:07 |tbb|: hmm yeah a portable coffee machine would definitely be something i would consider a worthwile upgrade ;) Jan 29 19:17:41 for now it can only be used as a Coffee Tablet (CT) ;) Jan 29 19:17:58 Coffee Table(t)? Jan 29 19:19:46 isn't that a typical usecase? transport hot coffee with a n810? ;) Jan 29 19:20:11 I just download it from the nearest Wireless Coffee Point Jan 29 19:21:02 ah via a virtual coffee network? Jan 29 19:31:31 hmm, i've just realised navit is crap. Jan 29 19:31:38 and i've been porting it for the last few days.. Jan 29 19:31:42 how annoying... Jan 29 19:32:14 will there be maemo people at fosdem this year? Jan 29 19:34:13 what are other people's opinions on navit? Jan 29 19:35:01 never tried it Jan 29 19:35:06 how is Roadster? Jan 29 19:35:21 Roadster? Jan 29 19:35:33 i know roadnav is ported but there's no UK maps Jan 29 19:35:38 which means it's useless to me Jan 29 19:35:40 hmm, maybe dead Jan 29 19:35:57 i pretty much have navit working in scratchbox Jan 29 19:36:09 but i suddenly realised, it's rubbish Jan 29 19:36:32 http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/attachments/linux/34562d1157775234-linux-gps-roadster-roadster-0.2.4-1.png Jan 29 19:36:48 or at least the version i have (CVS) can't seem to find places by location Jan 29 19:37:11 maybe the CVS version is bust... Jan 29 19:37:12 hmm Jan 29 19:37:26 i'll have a look into roadster... Jan 29 19:37:40 If anybody is interested: http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/7/ Jan 29 19:38:02 http://www.gnomad-mapping.com/ Jan 29 19:39:05 GeneralAntilles: that one's a must-have Jan 29 19:39:20 slick Jan 29 19:39:22 GeneralAntilles: ;-) I thought the youtube (flash) support was one of the main selling points, but I see the need ;) Jan 29 19:39:31 * Tak read that as gonad-mapping.com Jan 29 19:39:45 Blafasel, the idea is to only load the flash stuff you want to see. :) Jan 29 19:40:00 maybe ITT will be usable now ;) Jan 29 19:40:23 fysa: nice :) Jan 29 19:40:24 fysa: That map stuff looks nice, but - I never ever got one useable GPS connection with my device. Jan 29 19:40:55 It happend _once_, at home. Never outside (and never again in my flat either). Seems like I used it up ;) Jan 29 19:41:05 ah but it lacks navigation Jan 29 19:41:51 Why does the browser need a double-restart, though? Jan 29 19:48:38 http://raphael.slinckx.net/deskbar/screenshots.php#current Jan 29 19:48:42 that would be nice. Jan 29 19:49:15 Looks like Spotlight. Jan 29 19:49:34 nice for quick/limited keyboard input situations Jan 29 19:49:35 dunno, afaiui fx does a kind of double start internally on some extension stuff, maybe this one doesn't do that Jan 29 19:49:42 Spotlight + Quicksilver Jan 29 19:49:46 yes Jan 29 19:50:16 but I'm guessing at random since I don't know crap about the fx startup em restart foo either :D Jan 29 19:51:08 fysa: isn't this deskbar thingie written in python? Jan 29 19:51:29 yes, you would probably have to pry gnome out of it kicking-and-screaming though. Jan 29 19:52:24 or build python gnome bindings :P Jan 29 19:57:21 Gnome Do is a nice app Jan 29 20:03:08 can anyone recommend the best linux GPS app for me to port? Jan 29 20:04:14 what kind of gps app are you looking for? Jan 29 20:05:03 one including support for offline navigation Jan 29 20:05:08 and use of decent maps Jan 29 20:08:20 any ideas? Jan 29 20:08:44 I've already had a look at "navit" but the version i compiled didn't seem to work (even outside of scratchbox) Jan 29 20:09:38 free offline navigation would be cool Jan 29 20:09:47 indeed Jan 29 20:10:01 i mean i had navit running within scratchbox Jan 29 20:10:03 pretty usable Jan 29 20:10:16 but then i suddenly realised that it wouldn't find locations Jan 29 20:10:23 which makes it pretty useless for navigation Jan 29 20:10:31 it might be because i was compiling from their CVS Jan 29 20:10:41 so i might have a try with a release and see what i get Jan 29 20:10:59 if someone hacked the navicore map format... Jan 29 20:13:39 <|tbb|> is there a tool which could monitor changes to gconf (is this the name for nix registry?) entries Jan 29 20:14:02 back, stupid internet cutting out... Jan 29 20:15:08 not managed to look at gpsdriver yet, but does anyone know what the difference between libm_pic.a and libm.a is? Jan 29 20:15:26 <||cw> |tbb|: gconf is gnomes configuration system Jan 29 20:15:42 lardman: libm_pic is compiled with -fPIC ? Jan 29 20:16:45 <|tbb|> is there a possibilty to monitor changes ? Jan 29 20:17:14 iirc you can register a callback for a given key Jan 29 20:17:25 Tak: Ah, ok Jan 29 20:17:30 tbb, you mean like regmon but for *ux Jan 29 20:17:48 <|tbb|> lcuk, right Jan 29 20:18:06 * lcuk misses all the sysinternals tools Jan 29 20:18:17 <|tbb|> install wine, lol Jan 29 20:18:27 lol it wouldnt exactly work the same Jan 29 20:18:52 |tbb|: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gconf/stable/gconf-GConfClient.html#gconf-client-notify-add Jan 29 20:21:09 brb Jan 29 20:21:39 <|tbb|> k, wanted to know if there is some basic tools which allready installed to do that Jan 29 20:22:04 tbb, the maemo version of gconf uses d-bus... :) Jan 29 20:22:46 :'( My N800 won't charge. Jan 29 20:23:06 dodgy charger? Jan 29 20:23:06 I left it plugged into the A/C adapter all night, came back this morning, and it was flat. Jan 29 20:23:14 i've heard a few people have that problem... Jan 29 20:23:22 darkip: I'm about to check it with the multimeter, but i don't think so. Jan 29 20:23:22 got another nokia charger which will fit it? Jan 29 20:23:31 my 810 goes from 100% charge in evening to dead when i get back from work Jan 29 20:23:43 it even tells me to unplug it to save power Jan 29 20:23:47 darkip: My friend a few doors down does - i'll try it as soon as i get a chance. Jan 29 20:23:53 i have nothing running (bare desktop) no connects Jan 29 20:24:11 blah, was the plug swithced on at the wall? Jan 29 20:24:11 <|tbb|> ive got the same on my n800 till i found out the cable of the charger was broken Jan 29 20:24:14 This has happened to me once before, but i just removed it for a while and put it back in and it was fine. This time that didn't work. Jan 29 20:24:27 |tbb|: Time to pull out the multimeter, i guess... Jan 29 20:24:31 lol... Jan 29 20:24:41 blah, does it tell you its charging when you insert it Jan 29 20:25:00 My n810 discharges too quickly, now, too, I think. Jan 29 20:25:26 woah, idea Jan 29 20:25:35 i got back tonight and it was totally dead :( Jan 29 20:25:38 would it be possible to port google earth for maemo? Jan 29 20:25:38 lcuk: No, i just gave the "feed me some electrons" picture Jan 29 20:25:39 hmm Jan 29 20:25:53 However, i just went up to it now and it says charging! :-( Jan 29 20:25:56 Weird Jan 29 20:25:58 lol Jan 29 20:26:03 darkip: probably not, isn't it wine-based on Linux? Jan 29 20:26:07 darkip: I'm not laughing Jan 29 20:26:10 <|tbb|> blah cable ? Jan 29 20:26:21 |tbb|: Sure sounds like it, doesn't it? Jan 29 20:26:38 * lcuk spent hours charging his mobile yesterday before realising the usb at the other end was disconnected Jan 29 20:26:53 Well, on another topic, does this have any relevance to maemo? http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2008-01-28.4605718236 Jan 29 20:27:08 <|tbb|> ive got exact the same issue, at night i charged it set up the alarm next day i was late cause battery wont charge ;) Jan 29 20:27:15 Without reading the link I guess you talk about Nokia buying TT Jan 29 20:27:26 Blafasel: yep Jan 29 20:27:31 There are quite some blog entries about this. Short answer: Not in the near future, it seems Jan 29 20:27:35 Check ITT Jan 29 20:27:38 Cool Jan 29 20:27:57 http://tecnocode.co.uk/misc/totem-youtube.png Jan 29 20:28:07 I wonder if TT can run maemo web sites any better than Nokia can. Jan 29 20:28:11 anyone sussed how to get m.youtube.com working? Jan 29 20:29:17 blah, nokia run maemo sites perfectly well. they are all run from a single n810 running maemo :D Jan 29 20:29:39 * blahdeblah still wants to rattle some cages on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1896 - any suggestions? It started affecting the official Nokia repositories the other day... Jan 29 20:32:02 http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/10/16/using-youtubes-gdata-api-in-linux-desktop-applications Jan 29 20:32:53 cool. Jan 29 20:33:34 blahdeblah, is there anyway to manually enter the correct DNS server into hosts (dont know if it exists on maemo) and bypass akamai ? Jan 29 20:33:58 dns entry* Jan 29 20:35:42 lcuk: I tried that Jan 29 20:36:53 Someone here gave me an IP address that worked, and i manually overrode the whole domain on my local DNS server, but it didn't have the desired effect - i didn't have time to work out why. Jan 29 20:37:28 doesnt each subdomain need its own entry in hosts Jan 29 20:37:30 blahdeblah, did you ever try from another connection? Jan 29 20:37:40 ie, changing maemo.org isnt enough Jan 29 20:37:56 lcuk: I changed the one that was giving me the 401 errors - repository.maemo.org Jan 29 20:38:10 GeneralAntilles: The only places i've been able to try from are with the same ISP i use at home. Jan 29 20:38:41 change your dns server to one in another country Jan 29 20:38:47 to a country which works Jan 29 20:39:01 fsk the lot basically Jan 29 20:39:02 lcuk: And which supports recursive queries? That could be hard to find. Jan 29 20:39:28 GeneralAntilles: I might be able to try from another location this morning, but they use 802.1x on their wifi network - does Maemo work with that? Jan 29 20:41:01 * lcuk doesnt know how a dns server can be different, in the ones ive used it either worked or it didnt Jan 29 20:41:49 some servers answer just certain queries if outside their network Jan 29 20:42:52 ahhhh (i just read as well) so if the server itself doesnt know the address if the client is outside the network the dns will just give up without asking its parent Jan 29 20:44:29 Hmm.. I have lots of trouble with Skype/Gizmo being "muted". Is that a known problem? Jan 29 20:48:20 there is always opendns, if you need one Jan 29 20:54:31 Not much good free software for the N80/Series 60 devices .. Jan 29 20:54:49 Hrmpf.. No chat with the gf tonight. Both tools let me hear her, but not the other way 'round. Time to buy a headset, I guess. Jan 29 20:59:54 Hmm.. Are the sdk-vmware image guys around here? Jan 29 21:00:55 blaf, whats up with it (not that i could help, but someone might) Jan 29 21:01:53 lcuk: The netwrking doesn't work here and trying to fix it (running a dhcp client manually etc.) needs root privileges. No idea how to get those Jan 29 21:03:20 oooer dunno, but i had a problem with vmware net on win here. i had disabled the windows end of the connection after installing vmware so nothing i did inside the box would help Jan 29 21:07:31 gret iGo BT keyboard works great both on N800 and N810 :) Jan 29 21:12:26 <|tbb|> http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/28/skyfire-browser-for-windows-mobile-is-game-changing-does-flash/ Jan 29 21:13:20 Blafasel, have you tried using "sudo -s" to put yourself root for the session, its just appeared to work for me Jan 29 21:15:48 <|tbb|> maddler: congrats, i would like to have it too Jan 29 21:19:08 where to obtain latest builds of evince for os2008? Jan 29 21:36:06 lcuk: Got it, thanks. Reading the vala samples already (with quite some headache.. This is really new to me) Jan 29 21:36:38 hmm, i think i've found the perfect candidate Jan 29 21:36:45 gpsdrive looks good Jan 29 21:36:57 and it was ported for the 770 so shouldn't be too much work... Jan 29 21:40:19 darkip: Maemo Mapper? Jan 29 21:41:32 <||cw> darkip: I don't think gpsdrive was ever fully ported Jan 29 21:41:41 <||cw> maemo mapper is based on it though Jan 29 21:42:02 hmm Jan 29 21:42:12 but maemo mapper has no offline navigation Jan 29 21:42:22 whereas gpsdrive does (I think) Jan 29 21:42:36 <||cw> sure it does, you just have to load the map images first Jan 29 21:42:45 <||cw> or do you mean route planning? Jan 29 21:43:06 route planning Jan 29 21:43:15 i'd class that under navigation, but i know what you mean Jan 29 21:43:41 maemo-sdk was successful but couldn't update the local package DB. Can I ignore it? Jan 29 21:44:31 |tbb|: paid less than 50E Jan 29 21:44:40 |tbb|: not that expensive Jan 29 21:45:40 <|tbb|> maybe i will pick one by time Jan 29 21:50:18 fyi -> http://www.mymemory.co.uk/memory/iGo/Stowaway/Ultra-Slim/Bluetooth/Keyboard Jan 29 21:55:02 http://griffith.berlios.de/pages/screenshots.php Jan 29 22:08:01 fysa: looks prettu nice... Jan 29 22:08:10 gotta give it a try... Jan 29 22:08:36 not for maemo yet, but looks relatively simple to port Jan 29 22:10:16 Reading C makes my head explode.. Ouch. Jan 29 22:10:45 But the efl samples look nice (and afaik the Canola2 UI is based on it as well, which is even better) Jan 29 22:13:27 * dhd wonders if efl is written in Rastercode Jan 29 22:13:56 * dhd has nightmares of the old imlib and company Jan 29 22:14:00 fresh install of os2007he on n770.. what could cause very bad performance with mplayer (24) in videos which played perfectly fine before...? Jan 29 22:14:49 i think this is once again audio problem, mplayer shows codec to be "mad", i think it was something other before Jan 29 22:15:27 run in term, for example -ao alsa makes video perform well, but no sound Jan 29 22:15:53 am i missing some codecs or something? Jan 29 22:16:24 fysa: nice app btw... Jan 29 22:16:35 Reinard: codec on 770 should be dspmp3 iirc Jan 29 22:16:48 thanks, but I just pasted the link :) Jan 29 22:19:37 tak, if i write -ac dspmp3, mplayer doesnt show auduo codec at all, but video performs well Jan 29 22:19:56 *audio Jan 29 22:20:14 <||cw> what codec is the video using for audio? Jan 29 22:20:29 i have never before had anything like this... but i just reflashed this Jan 29 22:20:53 i dont know, its converted with that java mediaconverter Jan 29 22:21:12 also -ao gst Jan 29 22:21:21 same videos worked directly in mplayer before reflashing Jan 29 22:21:40 tak, tried -ao gst -ac dspmp3 too Jan 29 22:22:39 * Tak shrugs Jan 29 22:23:08 "could not open/initialize audio device -> no sound" Jan 29 22:23:24 maybe something else has it open? Jan 29 22:25:37 well i have booted this device several times and should not have anything open Jan 29 22:26:37 is it possible this could have something to do with libogg0 etc. libs needed to install mplayer Jan 29 22:27:25 because when i first tried to install it, i couldn't because those wasn't installed. Jan 29 22:28:18 i also couldn't install those libs, but i managed to install mplayer from somewhere else Jan 29 22:29:02 oh, this obviously is problem with missing codecs Jan 29 22:30:05 "cannot find codec for audio format 0x55" when trying to use dspmp3 Jan 29 22:30:36 hmm, what could i do? reinstalling didn't help. Jan 29 22:32:21 find a different mplayer release? Jan 29 22:32:35 i tried multiple versions Jan 29 22:32:45 all wanted to use "mad" Jan 29 22:37:35 try a different media file?} Jan 29 22:40:29 well i have three files 400x240 which played perfectly before flashing Jan 29 22:40:53 all of those perform _REALLY_ bad now Jan 29 22:43:41 I don't know what it could be.. Jan 29 22:44:51 me neither but i think it got something with those libs Jan 29 22:46:28 almost seems like that mplayer wasn't compiled properly.. Jan 29 22:46:35 configured properly. Jan 29 22:47:34 where could i find official stable .install of mplayer (18?) for n770 Jan 29 22:47:45 check garage? Jan 29 22:48:12 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=54&release_id=1338 Jan 29 22:49:36 thanks, ill try that Jan 29 22:55:01 oh yes.. 18 is working with dspmp3 Jan 29 22:55:26 thank you dor your help Jan 29 22:55:31 excellent Jan 29 23:00:43 it takes a licking and keeps on ticking Jan 29 23:01:22 just flipped and totaled my car, but my 810 is working great :) Jan 29 23:01:29 wow Jan 29 23:01:39 penguinbait: so much for the route planner! Jan 29 23:01:43 hehe Jan 29 23:01:50 put me in a tree :) Jan 29 23:01:56 nice to hear you're OK Jan 29 23:02:09 Holy shit. Anything other than minor bruises, penguinbait? Jan 29 23:02:14 so far so good, probably sore tomorrow Jan 29 23:02:48 not even a scratch on the 810 :) Jan 29 23:02:56 it was in my pocket in its holder Jan 29 23:03:18 cadilac is totaled though :( Jan 29 23:04:02 what cadillac was you driving? Jan 29 23:04:03 is that why they have those gps disclaimers :) Jan 29 23:04:10 03 cts Jan 29 23:04:34 still not sure what happened really Jan 29 23:04:48 lost my steering Jan 29 23:04:57 felt like broken tierod Jan 29 23:05:29 Ouch.. Jan 29 23:05:40 Been there, done that. Glad that you're okay though Jan 29 23:05:59 penguin, you know you shouldnt be updating rtcomm whilst you are driving Jan 29 23:06:02 scared the crap out of me, but I am good :) Jan 29 23:06:28 its that crappy nokia built in gps, had me off in the trees Jan 29 23:06:32 :) Jan 29 23:07:04 hrhr Jan 29 23:07:16 so did 810 stay in its holster? Jan 29 23:07:24 "Turn in 120m" - "But there's a tree in my way!" Jan 29 23:07:31 Ouch, penguinbait. Jan 29 23:07:38 in its holster in my pocket :) Jan 29 23:07:47 Good that you can joke about it, though Jan 29 23:07:55 I got my wisdom teeth out last friday Jan 29 23:08:07 I just ate some pills Jan 29 23:08:13 I am calming down now Jan 29 23:08:36 glad I didnt smack my face Jan 29 23:09:01 its ok penguin, you could have just reflashed yourself Jan 29 23:09:07 were you alone in the car Jan 29 23:09:22 its about time anyway Jan 29 23:10:46 * lcuk hopes to never have a major incident - you were lucky Jan 29 23:11:19 it was crazy, it still seems sureal Jan 29 23:12:17 how long time ago did it happen? hour or two? Jan 29 23:12:20 :o Jan 29 23:12:32 watching them drag the poor cts off the trees, out of the dirt Jan 29 23:12:47 i bet, did you get yourself out or did you wait for rescue Jan 29 23:12:47 it was about 2.5 hours Jan 29 23:12:51 ago Jan 29 23:12:58 When's your lawsuit again Cadillac going through? :P Jan 29 23:13:05 s/again/against Jan 29 23:13:27 I satthere for a second, and then thought, well, dont want to be in a burning wreck Jan 29 23:13:51 then realized I had to climb out a window Jan 29 23:14:03 wise decision Jan 29 23:20:03 hi, i have just aquired a n800 and it came with russian enabled as the default language. Can someone tell me where to find the language settings so i can change this to english (or even reset the whole unit would be ok) Jan 29 23:21:10 to reset the unit just reflash it Jan 29 23:21:27 are you using Linux, Mac or Windows? Jan 29 23:21:43 i have access to all 3 Jan 29 23:21:57 i managed to get it to english (after sifting thru some russian menus) Jan 29 23:22:03 ah Jan 29 23:22:15 that was fast :) Jan 29 23:22:19 but if its not OS2008 I will be willing to re-flash if its a straightforward procedure Jan 29 23:22:26 it is Jan 29 23:22:33 good thing for little icons :) Jan 29 23:22:34 on windows there's a wizard Jan 29 23:22:47 ok, i'll look into that after i play for awhile :) Jan 29 23:22:55 on Linux/Mac there's one file to download and a command to run Jan 29 23:23:33 braddbr, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux Jan 29 23:23:41 thanks Jan 29 23:23:45 braddbr, превед товарищ Jan 29 23:23:49 помочь? Jan 29 23:23:50 :( Jan 29 23:24:23 oh noes! you've set the tablet to english but now IRC is set to russian! Jan 29 23:24:25 do you need help in russian? Jan 29 23:24:44 not now, i managed to find the setting Jan 29 23:24:54 k Jan 29 23:25:06 I need help in Russian. :( Jan 29 23:25:19 we have tiny russian tableteers community at http://internet-tablet.com and jabber conf n800@conference.jabber.ru Jan 29 23:25:50 i need to know what: "i like cigars" is in russian Jan 29 23:26:17 Мне нравятся сигары Jan 29 23:26:27 or something like Я обожаю сигары Jan 29 23:27:15 thanks, but how can i copy text in maemo pidgin :D Jan 29 23:27:43 Reinard, hilight and middle-click? Jan 29 23:28:04 http://pastebin.ru/291383 Jan 29 23:28:11 of you're on PC now Jan 29 23:28:23 Мне нравятся приклады Jan 29 23:28:24 oh great, thanks Jan 29 23:28:24 open link on tablet and copy-paste Jan 29 23:28:39 fysa, чем тебе помочь? Jan 29 23:28:58 si? Jan 29 23:29:10 that was babelfish talking. ;) Jan 29 23:29:16 ah, ok :D Jan 29 23:29:28 приклад != сигара Jan 29 23:29:29 it can translate in reverse, but it's across synergy and copy/paste is broken ;) Jan 29 23:31:19 someone please call to rockstar and tell them to publish gta:iv immediately Jan 29 23:31:33 for n8x0? Jan 29 23:31:49 :d yes if possible Jan 29 23:31:58 gta:sleepy_hamlet Jan 29 23:32:04 haha Jan 29 23:32:05 someone please kick rockstar with boot in a face for ruining great geame Jan 29 23:32:07 *game Jan 29 23:32:11 gta2 was best! Jan 29 23:32:21 i still have gta2 cd on my shelf Jan 29 23:32:24 gta2 rocks Jan 29 23:32:44 didnt they release original gta for free? has anyone created an open source engine for the data files? Jan 29 23:33:02 gta1 and 2 are free, yes Jan 29 23:33:17 but still proprietary Jan 29 23:33:38 it would be good playig original on maemo Jan 29 23:33:44 i would love to play those with tablet.. it would be so nice Jan 29 23:33:57 Stalwart: How did they ruin GTA considering it's now better than it's ever been? Jan 29 23:34:12 1) no deathmatch multiplayer Jan 29 23:34:15 2) 3d Jan 29 23:34:24 i think gta:sa wasnt too good Jan 29 23:34:30 Uh.. news flash, GTA1 was 3d. :) Jan 29 23:34:33 too bad fot gta-series Jan 29 23:34:56 all gtas have been 3d except gba-versions Jan 29 23:35:00 *bad 3d at that - the first few real "3d" versions really looked poor on normal hardware. the over the top versions were much better Jan 29 23:35:02 what? Jan 29 23:35:09 gta2 had some 3d features too, but top-down view is best! Jan 29 23:35:17 ah Jan 29 23:35:36 The code for multiplayer networking has been in the GTA3 series of games from the start, just that they didn't bother with making a game around it. Jan 29 23:35:42 gta3 had a topview cam... wonder why they removed it later Jan 29 23:35:47 That's why Multi Theft Auto and other hacks work so easily. Jan 29 23:35:57 Reinard: No one used it. I did. Jan 29 23:36:01 is that so? :o Jan 29 23:36:06 Yep. Jan 29 23:36:12 GTA on PSP has networking. Jan 29 23:36:21 six player deathmatch is a blast. Jan 29 23:36:22 well still that top-view was cool Jan 29 23:36:26 Agreed. Jan 29 23:36:49 I suppose the overhead train tracks in GTA3 showed them that top down can be a pain. Jan 29 23:36:59 will mac os X's 770Flasher.app work for the n800? I see they reference the n800, just want to be sure Jan 29 23:37:29 GTAIV has online multiplayer. Jan 29 23:37:42 gtaiv will rule the world Jan 29 23:37:56 Pretty much. Jan 29 23:38:08 And in the meantime, I've got Burnout Paradise and UT3 to keep my PS3 company. Jan 29 23:38:13 gta4 has multiplayer? Jan 29 23:38:20 jack(ass) thompson isn't going to be happy Jan 29 23:38:21 wow Jan 29 23:38:22 Stalwart: Yes. Jan 29 23:38:30 braddbr, it's fine. Jan 29 23:38:38 k, thanks Jan 29 23:38:40 all i knew about gta4 so far is that they have russian music on radio Jan 29 23:38:52 and in trailer too Jan 29 23:39:02 and russian mainchar ;) Jan 29 23:39:08 ghm Jan 29 23:39:09 Not Russian. Jan 29 23:39:15 Eastern European. Jan 29 23:39:17 GTA is one of those games that can really benefit from the added ability of newer consoles. Jan 29 23:39:18 easteuropean Jan 29 23:39:21 i guess mainchar isn't, but mafia is Jan 29 23:39:31 GeneralAntilles: Absolutely. Jan 29 23:40:02 too bad gtaiv is only 720p Jan 29 23:40:10 Meh, good enough. Jan 29 23:40:18 like almost all nextgen games Jan 29 23:40:20 gnite everyone Jan 29 23:40:21 Gameplay is more important than graphics. Jan 29 23:40:37 well yes it is Jan 29 23:40:43 <|tbb1> re Jan 29 23:40:49 I've been playing through all the PS2 GTAs. Jan 29 23:40:54 Picked 'em all up for $20 Jan 29 23:40:58 San Andreas is a blast. Jan 29 23:41:08 Sure is. Jan 29 23:41:11 GeneralAntilles, not if you spend 4-500 quid on a graphics monster of a ps3 it isnt Jan 29 23:41:15 The PSP versions are really awesome. Jan 29 23:41:25 lcuk, then don't do that. :P Jan 29 23:41:26 lcuk: Wrong, it still is. Jan 29 23:41:36 * zerojay hugs his backwards compatible PS3. Jan 29 23:41:41 i dont mind games having lower spec graphics on the wii - its still fun and we have had it for over a year now Jan 29 23:41:53 Lurv mah Wii. Jan 29 23:42:00 Maria Galaxy is too much fun. Jan 29 23:42:02 Ha Jan 29 23:42:08 s/Maria/Mario/ Jan 29 23:42:16 I got bored of that really quick. Jan 29 23:42:27 galaxys hidden message in cover rocks Jan 29 23:42:29 Mario's fallen so far since Mario 64, my all-time fave. Jan 29 23:42:42 I does lack some of the level-depth of 64. Jan 29 23:42:49 But still good fun. Jan 29 23:42:53 U R MR GAY, was it? :D Jan 29 23:43:03 I've actually been playing Godfather on Wii a lot. Jan 29 23:43:07 Picked it up cheap. Jan 29 23:43:18 oh my... thats very bad game Jan 29 23:43:24 Bad? Jan 29 23:43:26 mafia rocks Jan 29 23:43:28 It's awesome for $20 Jan 29 23:43:35 lego star wars FTW! but the "lightsword" we got makes the controller not very responsive Jan 29 23:43:47 and theres mafia:ii coming Jan 29 23:43:50 * lcuk takes it off and hacks around Jan 29 23:44:05 lego sw gots potential Jan 29 23:44:37 What's the interface towards lego nowadays...usb? Jan 29 23:44:39 seria? Jan 29 23:44:41 serial? Jan 29 23:44:41 its great because we can hack and slash and be destructive and its perfectly ok for my youngest to play cos its only lego Jan 29 23:44:49 it would be awesome with better physics, like you could wreck parts of buildings and chars or something Jan 29 23:44:51 Haha Jan 29 23:44:54 bluetooth bricks Jan 29 23:44:58 oh. Jan 29 23:45:05 I want that compiled on meamo ;) Jan 29 23:45:05 I still play Jedia Academy. Jan 29 23:45:14 Where are these days a's coming from? Jan 29 23:45:19 s/Jedia/Jedi/ Jan 29 23:45:22 i picked up the fabric for my jedi robe today Jan 29 23:45:41 my tunic should arrive tomorrow and im just playing around with getting a sabre working Jan 29 23:45:50 uncle kenobi is helping me Jan 29 23:45:51 scummvm and monkey islands on tablet rules also Jan 29 23:46:01 ^ Jan 29 23:46:03 use the force Jan 29 23:46:06 (and my mum is doing the sewing :D) Jan 29 23:46:10 Played through day of the tentacle a couple times. Jan 29 23:46:19 one good also Jan 29 23:46:21 Wish we had OpenGL for Grim Fandango. Jan 29 23:46:35 i just played full throttle through Jan 29 23:47:02 it wasn't perfect on tablet because of mouse-scenes, but playable Jan 29 23:47:03 only if one could totally forget monkey island 1 and 2 and replay both as a "virgin" Jan 29 23:47:15 :D Jan 29 23:47:36 wnd, I'd like to do that with a lot of things. Jan 29 23:47:48 Hmm.. I'm great at completely forgetting stuff. Jan 29 23:47:49 mi1 and mi2 are both perfect. but i have fallen in love with mi3 Jan 29 23:47:59 I can read books 3-4 times easily ;) Jan 29 23:48:15 those graphics, animations and sounds are so cool in it Jan 29 23:48:24 Mind you: That talent is bad in a relationship.. Jan 29 23:48:34 don't forget The Song Jan 29 23:49:05 I only tend to forget names and time-critical things Jan 29 23:49:31 is late night with conan once again halted? Jan 29 23:49:40 does someone know? Jan 29 23:49:45 * wnd humms "a pirate I was meant to be" Jan 29 23:51:45 i have wondering that game like guitar hero would be great on multitouch screen Jan 29 23:52:09 imagine, you hold frets and then play the strings with other hand Jan 29 23:52:32 seen demo for *spit* iphone a couple of days ago Jan 29 23:52:42 where can i get multitouch device with a good programmingenv Jan 29 23:52:47 really? Jan 29 23:53:21 http://www.break.com/index/ipod-guitar-hero.html Jan 29 23:54:40 wmv, doesnt probably play too good in 770 mplayer Jan 29 23:54:57 got to check that later with pc Jan 29 23:54:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf9c5IxAB74 Jan 29 23:55:33 <|tbb1> that the power of multitouch Jan 29 23:55:46 :D thanks Jan 29 23:55:48 i want m.youtube.com to work. someone has to know, why cant it play the 3gp streams youtube gives out? Jan 29 23:56:03 * lcuk has a long wishlist Jan 29 23:56:12 does predicted symbian s60 have multitouch? Jan 30 00:02:05 that iphone guitar is quite cool Jan 30 00:03:23 is there any task-manager app for maemo? Jan 30 00:03:37 which dictionary do you recommend? Jan 30 00:04:13 because this is acting really bad now and i think that some process or something have left open Jan 30 00:16:09 Reinard, "load-applet" Jan 30 00:16:18 nearest and simplest Jan 30 00:17:06 ill check that, thanks Jan 30 00:26:57 i don't know if this is right applet i installed, but is it normal that cpu-bar in on red area whole time? Jan 30 00:27:22 no, tap it and click view processes Jan 30 00:27:50 have a look at the cpu load of each app and see which Jan 30 00:36:33 And where did you get that plugin from? Jan 30 00:40:43 Ahaha Jan 30 00:40:53 Win win win . . . I've got Err as my startup image. Jan 30 00:42:16 GeneralAntilles, as in ATHF? Jan 30 00:42:24 Yeah Jan 30 00:42:28 :D Jan 30 00:42:46 Stole the ones the guy on ITT worked up. Jan 30 00:42:49 Improved them a lot. Jan 30 00:55:44 http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/err.zip Jan 30 00:56:32 nice Jan 30 00:56:59 that's actually pretty cool looking Jan 30 00:57:15 I'll stick with my Debian logo though, thanks :D Jan 30 00:57:33 Ha Jan 30 00:57:46 I guess I should post those somewhere Jan 30 00:58:01 Progress bar may not actually be working. . . . Jan 30 00:58:12 I didn't bother with the progress bar Jan 30 01:02:59 There's the progress bar . . . Jan 30 01:03:06 Looks like I did it wrong, though. Jan 30 01:10:37 looks like some movement on abiword now, nice... Jan 30 01:12:01 hi, is there anywhere where I can get the package osso-rtcom-oma Jan 30 01:14:46 the one shipped with OS2008? Jan 30 01:16:29 yes Jan 30 01:17:53 * johnx looks Jan 30 01:20:57 it might not be in any repository Jan 30 01:21:11 did you end up deleting yours? Jan 30 01:21:12 is there a way to extract it? Jan 30 01:21:27 extract it from the image Jan 30 01:21:27 you could use dpkg-repack Jan 30 01:21:36 what is that? Jan 30 01:21:41 It is still installed Jan 30 01:21:45 but the status is pi Jan 30 01:21:47 ah Jan 30 01:21:49 instead of ii Jan 30 01:22:00 which indicates a problem I think Jan 30 01:22:05 I don't know how that happened Jan 30 01:22:31 did you add one of the maemo repositories that has the dev stuff? Jan 30 01:22:48 not sure Jan 30 01:23:04 (dpkg-repack takes an installed package and makes a .deb out of it) Jan 30 01:23:38 let me try it Jan 30 01:23:49 Best would be to write some generic code snippet to update screen via framebuffer ioctl like mplayer does it. One could just add such code to project and replace SDL_UpdateRect with such call. ioctl has non-sticky pixeldoubling flag valid only per specific screen update so it will not mess the screen. Jan 30 01:23:54 - fanoush Jan 30 01:24:32 EruditeHermit, I think it's not installed on maemo and has deps on lots of other stuff that's not readily available Jan 30 01:24:57 oh Jan 30 01:25:14 johnx: so is there a way to extract packages out of the OS2008 image Jan 30 01:25:29 should be possible Jan 30 01:25:45 I could just do it for you and send you the package if you want Jan 30 01:26:03 that'd be great Jan 30 01:26:06 if you could Jan 30 01:26:12 sure Jan 30 01:26:19 is it that difficult? Jan 30 01:26:32 isn't there a way to simply change the package status from "purge" to "install"? Jan 30 01:26:56 EruditeHermit, it depends. Do you have a Debian desktop/laptop to use? Jan 30 01:27:00 yep Jan 30 01:27:57 debian lenny Jan 30 01:28:37 hmm Jan 30 01:28:47 'echo osso-rtcom-oma install | dpkg --set-selections' perhaps? someone should confirm this first, though Jan 30 01:29:10 you might be able to use flasher-3 to just unpack the image actually Jan 30 01:29:30 I'm not sure what "unpack" means though, whether it leaves you with a rootfs.jffs2 or directory of files Jan 30 01:29:43 jffs2 images can take a little work to unpack... Jan 30 01:29:43 rootfs.jffs2 Jan 30 01:30:35 I kinda figured Jan 30 01:30:53 it would be way to easy if it just handed you a directory Jan 30 01:31:23 so is it possible to do then? Jan 30 01:31:28 yes Jan 30 01:31:36 you need to look up how to mount a jffs2 image Jan 30 01:32:01 you might need to recompile your desktop's kernel (or at least compile some modules) Jan 30 01:32:03 johnx: would it be easy for you to do it? Jan 30 01:32:12 yeah, I have debian on my N800 Jan 30 01:32:15 ok Jan 30 01:32:19 mount -t jffs2 -oloop rootfs.jffs2 mount-pount Jan 30 01:32:31 just reboot and dpkg-repack --root=/mnt/nokia-os osso-rtcom-oma Jan 30 01:32:33 if you could do ht then, id be forever thankful Jan 30 01:32:36 sure Jan 30 01:32:48 johnx: how did you manage to install debian on the n800? Jan 30 01:33:13 N800 is just an ARM, and Debian has a fairly complete ARM port :) Jan 30 01:33:17 took a little hacking Jan 30 01:33:39 mind you not all the hardware is terribly *functional* right now :) Jan 30 01:33:44 lol Jan 30 01:33:53 yeah I like maemo so I'll stick with it Jan 30 01:34:13 even the KDE on tablets seems to be overkill for my purposes Jan 30 01:34:21 though it sounds nice =p Jan 30 01:34:24 dual booting is the best part ... and the pkg-maemo guys are getting more hildon stuff into debian Jan 30 01:35:50 lcdd: do you think it is just a problem with the package database or a problem with the package installation itself? Jan 30 01:36:31 Is this the correct channel to ask questions about scratchbox? Jan 30 01:37:20 None better, astromme_. Jan 30 01:37:23 * GeneralAntilles points at the topic. Jan 30 01:37:32 Ahh. Cool =) Jan 30 01:37:40 EruditeHermit, have you tried apt-get -f --no-act install ? Jan 30 01:37:45 just to see what it wants to do? Jan 30 01:37:49 Has anyone worked with sbrsh before? Jan 30 01:37:57 I keep getting authentication errors Jan 30 01:38:24 "sbrsh: Authentication failed" Jan 30 01:38:28 johnx: yep, it doesn't want to do anything Jan 30 01:38:38 johnx: 0 to install 0 to remove 0 to update Jan 30 01:38:43 interesting Jan 30 01:38:50 err Jan 30 01:38:55 32 not updated Jan 30 01:39:00 but thats fine Jan 30 01:39:01 I've set /targets/BLAH.sbrsh to include the password (and the mount points), as well as ~/.sbrsh on my n800 to include the password/ip Jan 30 01:39:15 want to put up a list of your repositories on pastebin and I'll see if I spot anything Jan 30 01:39:23 sure Jan 30 01:39:24 pupnik, that sounds quite interesting (the SDL_UpdateRect replacement) Jan 30 01:39:25 one sec Jan 30 01:39:39 johnx: will the names of them suffice? or do you want urls too? Jan 30 01:40:06 EruditeHermit: nah. i guess it might be an indication of a bigger problem, but basically the pi status only means that you want to remove a currently installed package Jan 30 01:41:08 just whatever is in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list if it's not too hard to paste up Jan 30 01:41:46 Also, is there any way to get a more verbose output from sbrsh? What step of authentiation is failing? Jan 30 01:43:45 Sorry... was trying to fix my username and disconnected instead... My question is still open =) Jan 30 01:50:11 astromme, have you tried setting the debug flag and seeing where it fails? Jan 30 01:53:24 Yeah, I just found that Jan 30 01:53:38 So it was failing because I hadn't added my host to /etc/sbrsh.conf Jan 30 01:54:03 but now it fails on "Can't mount to point /var/sbrshd/astromme@10.0.0.110/Transparent/" Jan 30 01:54:06 in the debug log Jan 30 01:54:22 it says something about needing host and users and a load of other stuff. ive never used the remote shell (im only just starting locally) but it seems so Jan 30 01:54:52 im actually gonna have a read through the rest of the scratchbox docs if they are written like that. its quite well done Jan 30 01:55:26 Cool. Jan 30 01:55:49 I need the remote shell because qemu keeps hanging when I try to compile kde4. I think there is something fishy going on with cmake, but I'm not sure Jan 30 01:58:12 YAY! It works! Jan 30 01:58:30 I'm doing this on my n800 with os2008, no dev os or anything... so I had to manually load nfs support Jan 30 01:58:49 And... it's slow as hell over the wireless connection. Lol... Jan 30 01:59:07 astromme, might be worth looking at USB networking Jan 30 01:59:29 I agree. I couldn't get that working though... Is there any way to do it from my native os2008? Jan 30 01:59:52 I haven't tried it on native OS2008 Jan 30 01:59:59 What have you used? Jan 30 02:00:10 * lcuk enters sleep mode Jan 30 02:00:15 nite foks Jan 30 02:00:42 'night Jan 30 02:01:08 astromme, Debian on N800 Jan 30 02:03:16 How did you get debian on your n800? Jan 30 02:03:40 debootstrap Jan 30 02:03:48 i seriously need to catch up on serge and Xc Jan 30 02:03:49 Xv Jan 30 02:04:07 I guess I've heard of that, but ? Jan 30 02:04:30 did you format a memory card, debootstrap the arm os to it, then use the bootloader on the n800 to load it? Jan 30 02:04:38 astromme, exactly Jan 30 02:04:39 And it worked? Jan 30 02:05:12 I only have a bluetooth keyboard... would I be able to do input? Jan 30 02:05:14 astromme, if you do exactly that it should boot debian with no networking, no physical console and no input Jan 30 02:05:35 Ouch. Jan 30 02:05:40 astromme, I'm working on rolling up a new release of a debian tarball with some modifications to make it behave better Jan 30 02:06:11 That would be great Jan 30 02:07:05 astromme: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/debianepiphany-webkit.png Jan 30 02:07:49 That's great! Jan 30 02:08:16 are you using maemo in debian? Jan 30 02:08:21 yup Jan 30 02:08:39 Ok. And, do you have a hardware keyboard that you plug in? (usb otg?) Jan 30 02:08:48 actually, no keyboard right now Jan 30 02:08:48 err.. usb hostmode? Jan 30 02:08:50 ok Jan 30 02:08:52 I mostly ssh in Jan 30 02:09:01 and power saving = not so much Jan 30 02:09:03 How did you do the initial config to be able to ssh in? Jan 30 02:09:05 I can imagine Jan 30 02:09:18 But I'd only need it for developing/compiling. Jan 30 02:09:37 I did a writeup here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian Jan 30 02:10:29 pretty much: debootstrap, have g_ether.ko get loaded early and bring up usb0 and load utelnetd that calls sh as root instead of login Jan 30 02:10:52 then I discovered that other people had done it before me and had nice initscripts prepared Jan 30 02:10:54 hahaha Jan 30 02:13:46 lol Jan 30 02:13:53 such is life Jan 30 02:15:06 anyways if it's just for dev stuff you can easily debootstrap/chroot to use debian armel right now Jan 30 02:15:24 and just leave the Nokia stuff running Jan 30 02:16:47 oh, that's interesting Jan 30 02:20:58 johnx, Have you ever played with sbrsh? Jan 30 02:21:04 not really Jan 30 02:21:15 I should/will though as soon as scratchbox2 is released Jan 30 02:21:51 When will that be... Jan 30 02:22:01 "when it's finished" :) Jan 30 02:22:20 I have no idea really Jan 30 02:22:22 Also, do you think that it could just be the wireless connection that is making my sbrsh go slower than molassas.... we're talking 1K times slower Jan 30 02:23:21 well the wireless connection certainly isn't helping I'm sure Jan 30 02:23:26 I'd believe it though Jan 30 02:23:34 Hmm, alright Jan 30 02:23:45 How does it work on a technical level? Jan 30 02:24:04 Nokia uses pretty aggressive power management on their wireless... Jan 30 02:24:09 technical level of what? Jan 30 02:24:28 sbrsh? Jan 30 02:24:39 I wonder if there is a way to turn that off Jan 30 02:24:43 I have my device plugged in... Jan 30 02:25:17 I would just try a USB net connection if that helps a lot, go back and fix wireless later Jan 30 02:25:32 /grumbles =) Jan 30 02:25:41 Can I do that with the stock os2008? Jan 30 02:25:47 I haven't used sbrsh and I haven't really dug into scratchbox except to compile some simple things Jan 30 02:25:52 yes, I think so Jan 30 02:26:14 http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/setting_up_usb_networking.html Jan 30 02:26:18 short and sweet :) Jan 30 02:29:59 I'll look into it, thanks Jan 30 02:30:03 sure Jan 30 02:30:56 astromme@Lentren:~$ ping 10.0.0.228 Jan 30 02:30:56 PING 10.0.0.228 (10.0.0.228) 56(84) bytes of data. Jan 30 02:30:56 64 bytes from 10.0.0.228: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=99.0 ms Jan 30 02:30:56 64 bytes from 10.0.0.228: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=123 ms Jan 30 02:30:56 64 bytes from 10.0.0.228: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=146 ms Jan 30 02:30:57 64 bytes from 10.0.0.228: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=169 ms Jan 30 02:31:07 Woops, didn't mean all of that. Well, you get the picture Jan 30 02:31:09 that's over wireless Jan 30 02:31:26 PING 192.168.2.15 (192.168.2.15) 56(84) bytes of data. Jan 30 02:31:26 64 bytes from 192.168.2.15: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.827 ms Jan 30 02:31:27 that's pretty bad Jan 30 02:31:31 That's over usbnet Jan 30 02:31:34 Really bad Jan 30 02:31:59 When I used to play wow, I played on Californian servers (I live in Minnesota). I got better pings from their servers.... Jan 30 02:32:22 I think Nokia's power saving sleeps the wireless *really* aggressively Jan 30 02:32:29 on bulk transfers it's actually not bad Jan 30 02:32:42 nor is it that bad for skype from continent to continent :) Jan 30 02:32:56 but intermittent/interactive stuff isn't great Jan 30 02:33:17 Ok Jan 30 02:33:59 Yeah, to my server (from a wirless laptop, Thinkpad x61t) it's .78ms.... =P Jan 30 02:34:32 but from my desktop it's .08... lol Jan 30 02:37:16 Well, this is better (usb net) Jan 30 02:37:18 but still slow Jan 30 02:38:35 Is there any way to shutdown the maemo environment on my n800? To free up ram for compiling? And, is there any way to set up a remote swap... and would it be useful? Jan 30 02:38:58 the control panel will let you setup swap on you SD card Jan 30 02:39:21 Yeah, but I don't want a lot of writes on my SD card when compiling. I'm happy to use it for day-to-day stuff. Jan 30 02:39:40 oh c'mon, it has a life time warranty, right? Jan 30 02:39:45 lol Jan 30 02:39:48 True Jan 30 02:39:57 If I can the documents... Jan 30 02:40:13 and did they tell you that you *couldn't* swap to it? Jan 30 02:40:25 anyways no, probably not an easy way to disable the maemo stuff Jan 30 02:40:46 Alright Jan 30 02:40:57 you might be able to get away with turning off a couple of the biggest memory using programs if you can find them Jan 30 02:41:04 you can shut down quite a few services .. Jan 30 02:41:14 metalayer crawler might be a good candidate Jan 30 02:41:28 It would be conviluted, but I suppose I could mount a nfs share, create a file image for swap, mkswap, then mount it. Jan 30 02:41:40 not recommended Jan 30 02:41:41 look into the /etc/osso-af-init/*.sh stuff.. Jan 30 02:41:45 probably won't help Jan 30 02:42:11 Is there any list that shows what will reboot the device when stopped with /etc/init.d runscripts? Jan 30 02:42:12 ask google about "swap over NFS" and see what it says :P Jan 30 02:42:27 if you are after perfomance swap over a network connection is not the best idea Jan 30 02:42:40 performance or stability ... Jan 30 02:42:44 I was playing around earlier with kde4 and I wanted to shutdown matchbox... but I kept getting my device to reboot instead Jan 30 02:43:20 some stuff is launched by dsme (in /mnt/initfs) with monitoring enabled Jan 30 02:43:45 astromme: you have to stop it via the osso-af-init scripts (or the launchwrapper) Jan 30 02:43:51 johnx: you said before one can chroot into a debian armel from OS2008? Jan 30 02:43:59 yeah Jan 30 02:44:02 sounds interesting to me... very Jan 30 02:44:16 better yet, it's really, really painlessly easy Jan 30 02:45:02 fantastic Jan 30 02:45:03 jott: I played around with those as well? Or maybe my memory is failing me. Will any of them reboot the device? Jan 30 02:45:28 astromme: yes. some are. i've not taken notes which exactly ;) Jan 30 02:45:53 Tama^2, do you have a debian/ubuntu desktop/laptop? Jan 30 02:46:30 I do but the bet way for me is use a VM on my macbookpro Jan 30 02:46:34 *best Jan 30 02:46:55 that should work as well Jan 30 02:47:01 why? Jan 30 02:47:16 then go here: http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiHowto , scroll down to "creating a EABI chroot..." Jan 30 02:47:34 wow, thanks! Jan 30 02:47:40 run the first command on i386 debian (so you avoid having to install debootstrap on OS2008) Jan 30 02:47:44 first class service :P Jan 30 02:48:02 but matchbox can be stopped Jan 30 02:48:02 as well as the hildon-desktop Jan 30 02:48:02 and media-server, connectivity-ui, clipboard, keyboard Jan 30 02:48:03 put it on an ext2 formatted SD card, run the second command on the tablet, Jan 30 02:48:19 chroot /media/mmc2/ su - Jan 30 02:48:40 Tama^2, you might want to mount --bind directories you want access to as well Jan 30 02:48:47 like /proc/ /dev and /home/user Jan 30 02:48:53 ... Jan 30 02:49:27 I will do it tomorrow Jan 30 02:49:31 :) Jan 30 02:49:33 I wonder if sbrsh uses my laptop's cpu for compiling, and just runs the resultant binaries over the network...? Jan 30 02:49:50 astromme, I think that's correct Jan 30 02:49:57 Now, the one problem (not really a problem) is that you're still running the osso kernel Jan 30 02:50:02 Good, that should be faster. Jan 30 02:50:24 what does the Chr key do on n810? :) Jan 30 02:50:42 pupnik: popup a bar with some special keys Jan 30 02:50:44 astromme, yeah, Nokia has lots of proprietary power management stuff Jan 30 02:51:11 ahhhh Jan 30 02:51:48 johnx: do you use sid as in the example or you based your work on another version? Jan 30 02:52:04 sid is the only version with armel support right now Jan 30 02:52:10 Really? Jan 30 02:52:18 arm != armel Jan 30 02:52:28 pupnik: (frankly it would be better to use it as some extra Mod key ;) Jan 30 02:52:29 What does the n800 use? Jan 30 02:53:00 well they're not really different CPU archictectures so much as different ABIs Jan 30 02:53:05 cool, i just modded fn+space to be tab Jan 30 02:53:25 astromme, for an exhaustive discussion on the situation, please see: http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort :) Jan 30 02:53:27 Man, I'd really like a n810... I'll have to find the funds for this summer. Jan 30 02:53:29 Ok Jan 30 02:53:32 pupnik: yeah map every free key-combination you need it ;) Jan 30 02:53:39 That keyboard sounds very useful Jan 30 02:53:45 And I've never had a gps device Jan 30 02:55:01 same here. unfortunately i don't need one Jan 30 02:55:09 but maybe someday it will be very useful Jan 30 02:55:14 Yeah. Jan 30 02:55:43 astromme, with a limited budget it may be easier to go for an n800 and get a bt gps reciever Jan 30 02:55:52 yeah like when you're dropped in the australian outback and only have your n810 with you ;) Jan 30 02:55:54 i before e except after c... gets me every time. Jan 30 02:55:59 I do already have a n800. Any suggestions on bt gps reciever? Jan 30 02:56:31 you can look it up on ebay, theres tonnes of them. I use a g-sat one Jan 30 02:56:46 Although... I need a new phone. I've looked at th n95, but I have two problems with it. 1. mpls has no 3g support 2. it's expensive Jan 30 02:57:04 http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2007/12/31/adding-pipe-and-tab-to-the-n810-keyboard/ btw this is an important blog for n810 owners : customizing keys Jan 30 02:57:06 consensus seems to be: something with a sirfIII, sirfIIIc or mtk chipset Jan 30 02:57:07 If I got one, could I link it to my n800 for gps? Jan 30 02:57:10 just get a plain old cell and tether it with a phone Jan 30 02:57:14 er Jan 30 02:57:16 pupnik: but not via xmodmap ;) Jan 30 02:57:21 tether the n800 with the 3g phone Jan 30 02:57:23 pupnik: better modify the xkb file Jan 30 02:57:25 astromme, yes, check on itt forums Jan 30 02:57:25 Johnx, avoid sirf III Jan 30 02:57:30 really? Jan 30 02:57:31 SiRF IIIc or MTK Jan 30 02:57:36 why? Jan 30 02:57:38 I have yet to do that because data plans are expensive, but friends of mine have Jan 30 02:57:39 jott right, just edit /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44. Jan 30 02:57:46 SiRF III has really bad power consumption compared to the other two. Jan 30 02:58:09 ah Jan 30 02:58:37 but otherwise it's fine right? Jan 30 02:58:46 astromme, bt-359 is what I've got Jan 30 02:58:50 Yeah Jan 30 02:58:57 I'm happy, I got a $20/mo cingular/att unlimited data plan for my nokia 6682. I use it almost daily Jan 30 02:59:12 with my n800, my lenovo x61t and my phone directly Jan 30 02:59:15 astromme, it's even better with 3g. ;) Jan 30 02:59:19 I can imagine Jan 30 02:59:50 I'm sure I would. theres loads of cafes with pay-per-hour internet. I could work there without the hassle of paying every time, probably would end up being more anyway **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 30 02:59:56 2008