**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 05 02:59:57 2008 Feb 05 03:00:30 is there such thing as a substitute kernel for OS2008 with improved SDHC logging? Feb 05 03:01:50 I think fanoush released a kernel that did that at one point Feb 05 03:06:26 any ideas of the speed of the built-in SD card in a n800?? would i gain any speed increase if i installed os2008 on one of the removable media cards? Feb 05 03:07:15 you battery life is probably bound to decrease but you would probably get a bit of speed Feb 05 03:07:30 ok, good to know Feb 05 03:08:49 braddbr, you'd probably gain speed. A fast SD card will almost certainly be faster than the built in NAND flash (it's not an SD card, BTW). Also the builtin flash is a compressed filesystem so there is CPU overhead for reading and writing to it that you don't have when writing to an ext2/3 filesystem on an SD card Feb 05 03:10:01 oh, i see.. maybe i will go look for a fast SD card tomorrow.. any brand preferences (low-power would be preferrable) Feb 05 03:10:14 no ideas there, sorry Feb 05 03:10:57 I used to say that if you're planning to swap to it you should get one with a lifetime warranty ... but they're so cheap these days that they're almost disposable (at least in the 4GB range...) Feb 05 03:12:49 so meta-crawler and samba dont play well together Feb 05 03:13:33 any ideas on power consumption? is there any big jumps between the sizes? Feb 05 03:13:36 metacrawler doesn't play nice with very almost everything :/ Feb 05 03:14:10 o well Feb 05 03:14:44 braddbr, some people seem to think so...or at least power differences between different cards...but there's not much really scientific comparisons between cards Feb 05 03:14:45 lol. so the maemo 4.0 hello world example's build scripts don't work with the chinook sdk. Feb 05 03:14:52 figures Feb 05 03:14:55 trevarthan, ouch Feb 05 03:15:11 its uninstall didn't work right either (for me at least...) Feb 05 03:15:41 heh Feb 05 03:16:21 can someone help me update my N800 with the latest OS? Feb 05 03:16:34 I have two units that I need to update Feb 05 03:16:42 8GB cards were down to $33 the other week Feb 05 03:16:46 what os will you be using on the updater zetheroo? Feb 05 03:16:59 unit no1 is pluggied into the USD already Feb 05 03:17:00 fysa: microsd or full size? Feb 05 03:17:05 full Feb 05 03:17:14 I think MicroSD are on sale somewhere now too though. Feb 05 03:17:18 oh. :( I bought a microsd for like 90. Feb 05 03:17:33 on the topic of microSD, are they better for power usage? Feb 05 03:17:58 braddbr: I would liek to update to OS2008 Feb 05 03:18:14 zetheroo: i mean what OS will you be using to do the update? Feb 05 03:18:31 braddbr: I am running Ubuntu Gutsy Feb 05 03:20:46 16GB SDHC for $67 Feb 05 03:21:02 zetheroo: i am looking for the website Feb 05 03:24:44 http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9816300-1.html <-- is one guide i found.. others may know of better ones tho.. Feb 05 03:27:44 a Maemo Mapper hack that links to an http://localhost/ wikipedia mirror. Feb 05 03:27:48 that would befun. Feb 05 03:29:11 Sounds complicated to index wiki data to locations Feb 05 03:29:53 Wiki editors wouls need to tag entries with coordinates Feb 05 03:30:43 zetheroo, this is what you want: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/#312936fe52de4398657f61dbf7c06747 Feb 05 03:32:16 that would be too easy to be fun. Feb 05 03:33:00 AI to guess coordinates? Feb 05 03:33:08 lookup nearest addresses by city/area/business Feb 05 03:33:19 using the point-to-point database Feb 05 03:33:23 google earth already has lots of stuff tagged Feb 05 03:33:34 you can just export their kml files and use gpsbabel on them Feb 05 03:33:50 http://alendit.blogspot.com/2008/02/mokopedia-wikipedia-in-your-pocket.html Feb 05 03:34:22 http://www.wikimapia.org Feb 05 03:34:56 ggl earth interface to the gps h/w Feb 05 03:35:06 rm_you, that's awesome! Feb 05 03:35:27 If it exists, should be ported Feb 05 03:35:28 johnx: i marked my house :) Feb 05 03:35:35 ahaha Feb 05 03:39:13 heh. I found a neirbough who is editing wikimapia.. he also marked his house :) Feb 05 03:40:14 this is rather nice :) Feb 05 03:40:23 and the full screen layout would work well on a tablet... Feb 05 03:40:53 if it has the power to run it... <_< Feb 05 03:41:01 it lags a little bit on my desktop :/ Feb 05 03:41:05 really? Feb 05 03:41:09 it's quick here... Feb 05 03:41:14 hrm Feb 05 03:41:14 is it any slower than google maps? Feb 05 03:41:22 my compy is also like... broken right now i suppose Feb 05 03:41:35 actually, I'm probably looking at a "more sparse" region than you :P Feb 05 03:41:45 rm_you, are you in Linux? Feb 05 03:41:53 no Feb 05 03:41:55 >_< Feb 05 03:42:03 trying to fix my broken-ass windows stuff Feb 05 03:42:13 give up :P Feb 05 03:42:13 been defragging my drive for 2 days Feb 05 03:42:18 not sure if it's helping at all >_> Feb 05 03:42:22 jdefrag Feb 05 03:42:23 is the best Feb 05 03:42:32 wait. Feb 05 03:42:35 i have 250g of stuff on this drive i need <_< Feb 05 03:42:41 or i would just ditch it Feb 05 03:43:09 jkdefrag Feb 05 03:43:13 is very fast and excellent. Feb 05 03:43:22 and lightweight Feb 05 03:43:26 (and free) Feb 05 03:43:32 been using defraggler Feb 05 03:43:35 http://www.kessels.com/JkDefrag/ Feb 05 03:43:42 zip is 456kb Feb 05 03:43:48 yeah i grabbed it Feb 05 03:43:51 it has a screensaver.. Feb 05 03:43:59 i see. nice :P Feb 05 03:44:05 and the other one that's good.. Feb 05 03:44:14 pagedefrag? Feb 05 03:44:33 no defraggler? >_> Feb 05 03:44:35 http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897426.aspx Feb 05 03:44:42 maybe not. Feb 05 03:45:16 yeah, that's it. Feb 05 03:45:23 it defrags pagefile.sys on boot Feb 05 03:46:44 http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897426.aspx Feb 05 03:47:05 all the defragging you need, under a megabyte. Feb 05 03:47:37 haven't heard of defraggler, looks nice and light too Feb 05 03:48:12 http://www.neowin.net/news/software/08/01/23/defraggler-101050-beta Feb 05 03:48:15 comparison discussion Feb 05 03:48:25 hrm Feb 05 03:48:37 no fragmentation in any system files, according to your other link Feb 05 03:48:45 the sysinternals program Feb 05 03:48:50 JkDefrag is better than Defraggler. Feb 05 03:48:50 It is both pointless and useless to use two defragmenters back-to-back. Feb 05 03:48:50 They all use the original defrag API function (which was originally designed by the same people who make Diskeeper) however the applications use different criteria for determining what is commonly and least commonly used and where to put what. Feb 05 03:48:50 JkDefrag has a wonderful engine which defragmenters all files successfully and places the files sequentially and even consolidates all directories. Feb 05 03:48:52 Defraggler does not defrag all files and does not perform file placement. Feb 05 03:48:54 yeah, it's rare Feb 05 03:48:59 I usually get one fragment at most.. every month or two Feb 05 03:49:17 but I can imagine with swap, even one fragment could be horrible. Feb 05 03:49:43 so it seems that defraggler doesn't do smart-placement -- i.e., most accessed files at the fastest part of the disk Feb 05 03:50:01 FAT /me looks at the date and sighs Feb 05 03:50:12 fysa: i had over 900,000 fragments Feb 05 03:50:15 haha Feb 05 03:50:17 two days ago Feb 05 03:50:18 excellent Feb 05 03:50:27 rm_you, how close is that disk to full? Feb 05 03:50:33 i had more than 10 files with 7000-9000 frags a piece Feb 05 03:50:40 johnx: it was at 100% >_< Feb 05 03:50:46 johnx: which entirely explains the situation Feb 05 03:50:46 I had fragments kill a jfs-on-RAID.. Feb 05 03:50:49 yup, that'll do it Feb 05 03:50:57 but now has 42g free Feb 05 03:50:57 and there are no defragging tools. Feb 05 03:51:16 7 drives, performance was down to 8-20MB/s.ec Feb 05 03:51:35 ok... gonna kill defraggler and start jkdefrag >_> Feb 05 03:51:40 I used to choose filesystems based on their technical merits...now I choose them based on the maturity of their maintanence and rescue tools ... Feb 05 03:51:45 yes. Feb 05 03:51:57 maybe it's something else though... Feb 05 03:51:58 I've had bad experiences with jfs and xfs alike. Feb 05 03:52:11 xfs is *not* tolerant of hardware issues Feb 05 03:52:18 ask me how I know... Feb 05 03:52:18 I'm back to ext3 because it can shrink, i.e., I can escape out of it if something happens. Feb 05 03:52:20 because the disk is seriously SOOOOO slow that it's not realistic that fragmentation alone could do this Feb 05 03:52:28 i think the read/write is even ridiculously slow now Feb 05 03:52:28 I lost a terabyte to xfs.. :) Feb 05 03:53:03 I lost 20GB on a USB drive that had a hickup...back when 20GB meant something Feb 05 03:53:04 fragmentation can really kill a filesystem if it's out of control. Feb 05 03:53:14 so can a USB disconnect :/ Feb 05 03:53:22 aw Feb 05 03:53:38 no good Feb 05 03:54:02 ext2/3 seemed to cope better in my experience with sketchy drives Feb 05 03:54:05 going from jfs back to ext3 was 20MB/sec -> 160MB/sec Feb 05 03:54:17 this was back when I was a kid and putting every spare drive I found into service :) Feb 05 03:54:18 xfs was 183MB/sec.. Feb 05 03:54:23 but I'm happy with 160. ;) Feb 05 03:54:51 ext4 sounds good. Feb 05 03:55:02 lol? Feb 05 03:55:13 is there a spec out for that? :P Feb 05 03:55:17 yeah Feb 05 03:55:18 i don't follow filesystem news :) Feb 05 03:55:22 testing version in the latest kernels Feb 05 03:55:37 lol Feb 05 03:55:43 ext is always backwards compatible, eh? Feb 05 03:56:13 yeah Feb 05 03:56:19 i want to see a brand new filesystem wherein it magically increases the size of the disk by 10x :) that would rock. Feb 05 03:56:20 I wonder how long they'll keep it up... Feb 05 03:56:34 rm_you, jffs2? or squashfs? Feb 05 03:56:38 lol Feb 05 03:56:40 herbal disk extender filesystem? Feb 05 03:56:49 and fuse has a lot of options ... Feb 05 03:57:03 i've seen programmers do *wonders* with "magic cookies" :P Feb 05 03:57:08 johnx, try running reiserfs on broken hw ;-) Feb 05 03:57:13 heh rm_you Feb 05 03:57:53 czr, I think I do remember reiserfs biting me at least once, now that you mention it Feb 05 03:58:12 I used to run reiser on most systems until bad things started happening to me :-) Feb 05 03:58:24 stuck with ext2/ext3 ever since. for most stuff. Feb 05 03:58:42 i've never had good luck with xfs :/ Feb 05 03:58:45 ext2/ext3 I can at least fix manually (which I've done since), reiserfs/xfs is close to impossible Feb 05 03:58:45 ext2/3 is great though :) My dmesg log 7-8 years ago used to be full of "Error! Resetting IDE bus..." Feb 05 03:58:50 I ran reiserfs back when Reiser claimed it didn't need fsck Feb 05 03:58:52 and i used to use reiser, but it started annoying me too <_< Feb 05 03:58:55 then I lost data Feb 05 03:58:57 so i'm back to ext3 <_< Feb 05 03:59:01 I've never looked at it since Feb 05 03:59:03 yeah fsck.ext3 just bailed me out yesterday O_o Feb 05 03:59:25 well, ext3 is good even if fsck.ext3 fails. since it's very simple, you could actually fix it manually Feb 05 03:59:37 I remember undeleting files on ext2 manually Feb 05 03:59:49 not saying that you should, but could. I needed to do that once (backups? what backups!?) Feb 05 04:00:15 heh I've never fixed it manually, but there used to be some tool called like 'debugfs' or something Feb 05 04:00:16 czr, yeah. thousands of dollars of stuff on a server at a civil engineering firm Feb 05 04:00:29 which was a few steps up from manual ;-) Feb 05 04:00:49 heh...and FAT is so freaking easy to cope with manually Feb 05 04:01:11 in college a guy on my floor had his digital camera eat the FAT on his CF card in his camera Feb 05 04:01:28 I wrote a picture extractor in bash in one night O_o Feb 05 04:01:40 it has the advantage of not being a real filesystem, in any respect which matters ;-) Feb 05 04:01:45 yes Feb 05 04:02:03 and as such you can hold the entire design of it in your head at once :) Feb 05 04:02:59 iso9660 is pretty easy to parse, too, provided whatever built the filesystem didn't actually take advantage of all the options it had available to it ;-) Feb 05 04:03:21 heh Feb 05 04:03:41 anyways, I'm out of here for now Feb 05 04:03:43 'later all Feb 05 04:03:48 * johnx wanders afk Feb 05 04:04:03 smackpotato: are you still here? Feb 05 04:04:54 ya im here Feb 05 04:05:17 great. would you have time for some newbie questions of gpsd? Feb 05 04:05:40 i dont know to much Feb 05 04:05:56 I understood you made the fix for gpsd? Feb 05 04:06:20 that would be incorect Feb 05 04:06:27 ah ok. sorry then. Feb 05 04:06:48 i did mention it last night Feb 05 04:07:15 hows it working out for you Feb 05 04:07:45 well maybe someone could help me. I'm interesting what kind of information gps is providing for gpsd. how the info is delivered. how can I push location information to it from text-file.. and how to read the information from command line Feb 05 04:08:25 smackpotato: I did install it, but did not yet try it in real usage Feb 05 04:08:59 it worked for a little while for me Feb 05 04:09:23 but today seems slow again Feb 05 04:09:55 I don't know if the nokia gpsd is the standard linux gpsd, but if it is, it simply reads nmea sentences from an nmea device Feb 05 04:10:29 elb: how could I push the info to it? and what kind of info is needed? Feb 05 04:10:33 you can't push location information to it from a text file as-is, although you could create a fake tty device and feed it position from there Feb 05 04:10:43 nmea, as I said Feb 05 04:10:51 which is a gps standard communication protocol Feb 05 04:10:57 can I tell the gpsd 'your location is now 1.2222, 3.44444' ? Feb 05 04:11:15 elb: it is. gpsd 2.32 Feb 05 04:11:40 oil: http://gpsd.berlios.de/gps-hacking.html Feb 05 04:11:46 oil: fakegps is used for testing gpsd, but generally you don't push info to gpsd, you pull from Feb 05 04:11:55 elb: thanks. I'll take a look Feb 05 04:11:57 oil: I found that as the first link for googling 'gpsd' Feb 05 04:12:21 dragorn: ok. Feb 05 04:13:08 what I'm looking for is to speedup the gps location. kind of a a-gps. could be done just by pointing an location on the map.. or with wlan access Feb 05 04:13:43 i found it strange that it didn't know the time befor i locked on Feb 05 04:13:45 ah. I doubt that's possible with gpsd, but you may prove me wrong. Feb 05 04:14:34 oil: gpsd just parses NMEA coming out of the GPS, which provides sat pos, strength, and computed position, I suspect you'd need docs on the chip internals and what language/protocol it expects to seed info Feb 05 04:14:43 oil: But check, I may be wrong. Feb 05 04:14:48 maybe i removed the battery or something Feb 05 04:16:01 dragorn: is there a better way to do this? maybe even for n800 without any gps device? Feb 05 04:16:23 oil: Theres a few companies doing geopos based on wifi networks Feb 05 04:16:44 oil: You could derive the list of networks from iwlist scan (or writing code to parse the ioctls directly for the same info) Feb 05 04:17:18 so that when I come home. the n800 will note that it's assosiated to my home wlan.. and pushes the informartion to gpsd which will give it to maemo mapper Feb 05 04:17:25 oil: Or via kismet, but then you're in rfmon and lack the ability to connect upstream, so you probably wouldn't want to do it that way since I think all of those services require you to talk up Feb 05 04:18:36 awesome. segv. Feb 05 04:18:48 oil: what would the point of pushing fake locations into maemo-mapper be? Feb 05 04:19:32 dragorn: so that I would get the device location even without real gps connection Feb 05 04:21:17 in an city environment I could see where I am and what is around Feb 05 05:00:28 http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=205130621&loc= Feb 05 05:01:12 that could be an interesting way to add a hub, once linux drivers are sorted. Feb 05 05:01:43 http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=205130621&loc= Feb 05 05:14:20 weird, something i installed on my n810 borked the backlight settings and my power button doesnt work when the device is powered on Feb 05 05:14:31 i should have checked for bugs between each app i installed Feb 05 05:15:57 aha, found the culprit, powerlaunch Feb 05 05:16:49 someone helped me a week ago to update the OS on the N800 and it was very simple.... Feb 05 05:17:03 can I get some help again on this? Feb 05 05:20:03 http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/2008/01/nokia-n800-how-to-update-n800s-firmware.html you could try that one Feb 05 05:25:43 I am working in Ubuntu Gutsy Feb 05 05:29:58 anyone? Feb 05 05:36:16 zeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ sudo ./flasher-3.0 -F RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.50-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R Feb 05 05:36:17 sudo: ./flasher-3.0: command not found Feb 05 05:36:21 why is this? Feb 05 05:38:31 is ./flasher-3.0 executable? Feb 05 05:38:48 its supposed to be Feb 05 05:38:59 I am following this Feb 05 05:39:01 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/#312936fe52de4398657f61dbf7c06747 Feb 05 05:39:35 what does: ls -l flash* show? Feb 05 05:39:59 asking me? Feb 05 05:40:05 yes Feb 05 05:40:27 zeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ ls -l flash* Feb 05 05:40:27 -rw-r--r-- 1 zeth zeth 40236 2008-02-05 16:36 flasher-3.0 Feb 05 05:40:34 :-\ Feb 05 05:40:45 chmod +x flasher-3.0 Feb 05 05:40:45 not executeable Feb 05 05:40:53 jep Feb 05 05:41:10 hey thanks Feb 05 05:41:14 its working now Feb 05 05:41:41 they ahould put that in the documentation Feb 05 05:41:44 np Feb 05 05:44:33 for some reason holding the home button down while powering on is not working.... Feb 05 05:45:13 tried it about 8 times now Feb 05 05:46:12 Home down home key, then continue holding down home and turn it on? Feb 05 05:46:29 run flasher. Leave it seeking for a device. Turn on the device, on a charged battery, not plugged in to AC. Feb 05 05:46:43 I've never had to mess with the home button if done in that order Feb 05 05:46:56 Yeah, it'll catch it like that. Feb 05 05:47:07 dragorn: hey that worked Feb 05 05:47:10 Home just makes it wait for you, which can be mildly more convenient. Feb 05 06:56:53 so, does anyone have contact info for wazd? Feb 05 07:11:21 Sure, but you wont like it, timely. ;) Feb 05 07:11:21 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/member.php?u=9921 Feb 05 07:16:00 blegh Feb 05 07:16:15 every time i pick up my n800, it's off >_> Feb 05 07:16:18 but with full battery Feb 05 07:16:26 i must have installed something that's triggering watchdog <_< Feb 05 07:16:33 how do i turn it off? Feb 05 07:16:40 bleh. i'll look on the forums tomorrow Feb 05 07:16:42 Watchdog would reboot. Feb 05 07:16:46 erm? Feb 05 07:16:48 it would? Feb 05 07:16:50 >_> Feb 05 07:16:50 hrm Feb 05 07:16:54 Watchdog doesn't turn it off. Feb 05 07:16:56 Just reboots. Feb 05 07:17:00 yeah.... it keeps being *OFF* Feb 05 07:17:01 low battery would turn it off. Feb 05 07:17:04 but it isn't Feb 05 07:17:09 i turn it back on and it's at full Feb 05 07:17:18 Ha Feb 05 07:17:18 it even turns off WHILE CHARGING Feb 05 07:17:27 like i leave it charging overnight and in the morning its off again Feb 05 07:17:34 Haha Feb 05 07:17:36 Sounds bad. Feb 05 07:17:47 hasnt ever turned off on me while in use tho Feb 05 07:17:48 Got a backup on SD you could boot from? Feb 05 07:17:51 so i guess that's a plus... so far Feb 05 07:18:00 ? Feb 05 07:18:06 no... Feb 05 07:18:09 Isolate whether it's actually software. Feb 05 07:18:22 i could try johnx's debian :P Feb 05 07:18:26 i've been meaning to anyway Feb 05 07:18:46 It's fun. Feb 05 07:18:58 it better not be the hardware.... i take ridiculously good care of this thing Feb 05 07:18:59 I wish we had access to Debian's ARMEL repo within maemo. :( Feb 05 07:19:57 crap, i still need to package up that new backlight file i sent you <_< Feb 05 07:20:03 tomorrow!! ... maybe Feb 05 07:20:10 inz: you there? Feb 05 07:20:32 rm, yup Feb 05 07:20:47 inz: you set up the packaging system i'm using now... Feb 05 07:20:55 i just forgot what command to run :P Feb 05 07:21:05 dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot? Feb 05 07:21:27 probably it :P Feb 05 07:21:31 Btw, I forgot to set the Section to user/something in debian/control, I don't know if someone else told you to do that? Feb 05 07:21:41 ah Feb 05 07:21:42 i didn't Feb 05 07:21:47 whichwhat now? Feb 05 07:22:02 Edit the debian/control and change the line saying Section: Feb 05 07:22:23 It should be something like Section: user/Utilities Feb 05 07:22:51 kk. i hope thats right :P Feb 05 07:23:02 what files do i need to edit when i make a new release? Feb 05 07:23:09 anything have a version number in it? Feb 05 07:28:29 debian/changelog Feb 05 07:28:35 You can also use dch Feb 05 07:28:55 dch -v new_version "Change that was made" Feb 05 07:29:09 k. Feb 05 07:29:23 how do i tell it to clean the directory so i can tar up the sources? >_> Feb 05 07:29:55 fakeroot debian/rules clean should do something at least Feb 05 07:30:34 nm it makes me a nice clean source package :P Feb 05 07:31:27 anyone know how to DELETE releases in the garage admin thing? Feb 05 07:32:09 When's it get to Extras? Feb 05 07:32:28 i'm not sure how to do that... from what i can tell, i still have to ask someone to put me on a list or something <_< Feb 05 07:32:32 but i'm not sure who Feb 05 07:32:49 to tell the truth, i really wanted it in extras but i got bogged down in social stuff recently Feb 05 07:33:02 so i didnt do as much research as I should have :/ Feb 05 07:36:13 bah Feb 05 07:36:19 i fail at figuring out this interface Feb 05 07:36:28 i just want to add a new file under an existing release name <_< Feb 05 07:37:36 Haha Feb 05 07:39:55 AH Feb 05 07:39:56 got it Feb 05 07:40:01 i hate this interface <_< so confusing Feb 05 07:40:16 anyway, the 0.6 deb and gz is on the garage <_< Feb 05 07:40:46 though for some reason in the file list, the 0.5 release name is in BOLD and the newer 0.6 is in small text Feb 05 07:40:48 wtf Feb 05 07:41:04 holy crap, this thing has 240+ downloads!?! Feb 05 07:42:24 Told you I would stump. :P Feb 05 07:42:28 lol Feb 05 07:42:35 wow, 45 downloads on the 27th <_< Feb 05 07:42:44 not bad Feb 05 07:42:51 anyway... any ideas on how to get this in extras? Feb 05 07:42:59 i'd like to be able to apt-get upgrade and have it pop in :P Feb 05 07:44:31 what app are we talking about here? Feb 05 07:44:37 advanced-backlight Feb 05 07:44:50 ah, it's nice, i have it Feb 05 07:44:53 lol Feb 05 07:44:58 0.6 is out Feb 05 07:45:01 improvements :) Feb 05 07:45:24 does it close if you click somewhere else now? Feb 05 07:45:28 yes Feb 05 07:45:31 for the most part... Feb 05 07:45:37 still some kinks with that. but yes :P Feb 05 07:45:43 also, it has a border :P Feb 05 07:45:44 Only along the statusbar and taskbar area. Feb 05 07:45:48 so it doesnt look quite as horrible Feb 05 07:45:55 GeneralAntilles: it closes when i click on other programs <_< Feb 05 07:46:09 Not here. Feb 05 07:46:19 just not when i click in blank space in windows like the control panel Feb 05 07:46:19 thank you for it, it's nice to make it more dim in dark Feb 05 07:46:32 :P np Feb 05 07:46:41 happy to give back to the community Feb 05 07:46:48 Next we need a volume slider. Feb 05 07:47:11 with 0.1 steps Feb 05 07:47:26 GeneralAntilles: hrm.... you're right... i guess it does only close with clicks on the left... Feb 05 07:47:29 which doesnt make sense Feb 05 07:47:47 i switched to using the hildon popup interface, which is supposed to handle focus changes correctly... Feb 05 07:48:01 i guess i'll have to try it manually :/ Feb 05 07:52:52 Or con somebody at Nokia into telling you what they use. Feb 05 07:54:11 lol yeah >_> Feb 05 07:54:15 seriously, wtf Feb 05 07:54:36 ah well. anyway, sent an email off to what i hope is the right person to get set up for the extras repo Feb 05 07:55:08 and now, i require sleepage. ^_^ Feb 05 07:55:26 'night Feb 05 07:55:52 oh, right... so i looked into the volume thing... making the bar show up is easy. hooking it up to anything is much harder. I need to find out if i can make volume level changes via dbus or gconf or what, and if i can, how to do that :P Feb 05 07:56:14 feel free to briefly research that :P Feb 05 07:58:42 rm_you: volume is possible with gconf at least Feb 05 07:58:49 i'm using it myself Feb 05 07:59:06 thats what i thought from my brief checking... Feb 05 07:59:23 IE, i dumped gconf and looked up "volume" and found which ones changed when i hit different buttons Feb 05 07:59:30 mute seems to just multiply by -1 Feb 05 07:59:44 which makes sense, cause then it stores the old volume and the mute status in one variable :P Feb 05 08:00:03 /apps/osso/sound/master_volume Feb 05 08:00:14 i guess i'll just look for an interface to gconf in C tomorrow Feb 05 08:00:14 yeah Feb 05 08:00:36 and also try to figure out how to set up my own options system Feb 05 08:00:41 because this is getting complex <_< Feb 05 08:01:22 i'll need a "show volume?" checkbox, and a "DANGER! DANGER! ALLOW ZERO BACKLIGHT ON N800! DANGER!" checkbox :P Feb 05 08:03:09 * rm_you sleeps Feb 05 08:20:46 good morning Feb 05 08:27:39 Morning. Feb 05 08:29:15 morning ... Feb 05 08:38:56 nice split Feb 05 08:52:18 fscking hell Feb 05 08:54:28 fs troubse/ Feb 05 08:54:34 erg, fs troubles? Feb 05 08:55:06 i decided to try to do this instead of sleeping <_< Feb 05 08:55:16 damn, it crashes Feb 05 08:55:18 hrm Feb 05 08:55:20 That was your first mistake. Feb 05 08:57:17 <_< Feb 05 08:58:22 i wonder why it crashes <_< Feb 05 09:11:47 \ Feb 05 09:14:51 powerlaunch is mildly overwhelming but entirely too awesome. Feb 05 09:18:36 <_collin_> hi Feb 05 09:27:07 rm, what do you try to do? Feb 05 09:27:11 rm, volume control? Feb 05 09:32:10 inz: yes, also... i got it :P Feb 05 09:32:12 almost done Feb 05 09:32:58 new release today? Feb 05 09:33:01 yes Feb 05 09:33:05 two actually Feb 05 09:33:10 so wait a minute :P Feb 05 09:33:30 i'm in no hurry, have to update n810 for a friend today, could install it too Feb 05 09:34:16 rm, did you include a gconf notify handler that updates the slider if someone changes the volume from another place? Feb 05 09:34:27 yes Feb 05 09:34:33 good Feb 05 09:34:35 it's all nice :) Feb 05 09:35:42 bon dia / good morning Feb 05 09:36:07 huomenta Feb 05 09:41:36 anyone using OS2008 in a virtual SSID-environment? The network selection GUI is broken with those. Feb 05 09:41:44 Morning, all Feb 05 09:41:52 Hello. Feb 05 09:42:44 Hey, I am new to using the whole internet tablet thing (only got my n800 today), and I was wondering if someone could help me with a download problem? Feb 05 09:45:55 Altcod3r, what kind of download problem? Feb 05 09:54:41 Has anybody figured out how to pixel doubling in pygame yet? Feb 05 09:57:02 Inz, I am using OS2008, and am trying to download a game from maemo.org. I go to the manager, and it just says 'Download 1kb'. Feb 05 09:57:45 That's a one tiny game. Feb 05 09:58:28 Could be just downloading a error page. Feb 05 10:01:27 No, it doesn't download the whole thing. Feb 05 10:01:33 it says it is still downloading. Feb 05 10:01:37 hi, folks Feb 05 10:01:52 I don't know if it is a DNS error or something. Feb 05 10:02:08 Hi Alendit. Feb 05 10:02:19 Altcod3r: What game are you trying to download? Feb 05 10:04:31 LXDoom Feb 05 10:04:38 For OS 2008. Feb 05 10:05:44 alt, hmh, probably some maemo.org messup once again Feb 05 10:06:00 Haha, really? Feb 05 10:06:30 I will try it tomorrow morning, and if it doesn't work I will try another WIFI connection. Feb 05 10:06:32 it's been broken quite often lately Feb 05 10:07:06 Is there anywhere else I ca get games from? Feb 05 10:07:11 can* Feb 05 10:09:10 alt, if you like puzzles, you can try http://maemo-hackers.org/sgt-puzzles.install Feb 05 10:10:18 those are great Feb 05 10:10:24 perfect for the tablet Feb 05 10:10:36 but they clusterbomb the extras menu Feb 05 10:11:04 Meh, if it gets too much i can just remove them. Feb 05 10:11:07 thanks inz =] Feb 05 10:11:37 i think pupnik.de has games too Feb 05 10:12:28 Do they work on OS 2008? I was told the 2007 games didn't work. Feb 05 10:13:13 Wish they would give up back a decent Applications Menu. Feb 05 10:13:24 I can dig the finger-friendly setup Feb 05 10:13:29 but we really need subfolders or something. Feb 05 10:14:20 Altcod3r: i found that many SDL games don't care whether they're running on os2006, 2007 or 2008 Feb 05 10:14:48 Awesome, thanks =] Feb 05 10:15:31 general, with libhildonsomething, you can actually create subfolders Feb 05 10:15:33 Dang it I so want to do some python games. =/ Feb 05 10:15:53 general, they dont work too well though Feb 05 10:17:45 GeneralAntilles: BAAAAAAA Feb 05 10:17:49 got it i think Feb 05 10:18:00 GeneralAntilles: you get to be the first lucky test subject Feb 05 10:19:24 On pupnik.de, should I save the files, or open them? Feb 05 10:20:00 i guess it is just the same as saving other programs, so i will save them. Feb 05 10:20:29 Just open. Feb 05 10:20:33 If they're .debs. Feb 05 10:21:06 Ok, thanks =] Feb 05 10:21:10 GeneralAntilles: http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/advanced-backlight_0.7-1_armel.deb Feb 05 10:21:58 solmumaha: http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/advanced-backlight_0.7-1_armel.deb Feb 05 10:22:39 I can't believe i just did that instead of sleeping <_< Feb 05 10:22:54 damn my mixture of insomnia and obsession with code >_< Feb 05 10:23:07 haha Feb 05 10:23:38 Haha Feb 05 10:23:40 Looks good. Feb 05 10:23:42 rm, i know the feeling Feb 05 10:24:06 Just needs a horizontal rule, a new icon, and a system sound ping when you change the volume. :D Feb 05 10:24:15 rm, after some rest you can review the code and thing wtf was i thinking Feb 05 10:24:56 lol Feb 05 10:24:56 like, http://crap.teurasporsaat.org/archive/6246.jpg Feb 05 10:26:12 inz: i'll definately think that... i ended up using some really frinky logic with all the volume change signals <_< Feb 05 10:26:19 we'll see if it makes sense in the morning Feb 05 10:27:30 GeneralAntilles: remind me tomorrow <_< or whenever i get on next Feb 05 10:27:37 Haha Feb 05 10:27:38 Will do. Feb 05 10:27:40 i'll hold off on releasing 0.7 until i make those changes Feb 05 10:28:49 volume control is weirdly short Feb 05 10:28:57 yeah dunno wtf Feb 05 10:29:01 looks like it's almost a child of the backlight control. Feb 05 10:29:08 i'm not sure if i even have the option to size those widgets Feb 05 10:29:23 the first one just kind of turned out the right size <_< Feb 05 10:29:29 i'll look into it Feb 05 10:29:34 LATER Feb 05 10:29:36 * rm_you sleeps Feb 05 10:33:55 wow... http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=204055141&SearchEngine=DealTime&SearchTerm=204055141&Type=PE&Category=Comp&Gad=0&dcaid=15891 Feb 05 10:34:00 $190 <_< Feb 05 10:34:03 ack! Feb 05 10:34:05 * rm_you sleeps Feb 05 10:34:45 Damn Feb 05 10:43:31 Hello... Feb 05 10:47:31 morning Feb 05 10:49:02 anyone familiar with 2007HE on a 770? Feb 05 10:49:14 I'm running into a snag trying to get becomeroot Feb 05 10:49:48 what is problem? Feb 05 10:50:14 the package is not showing up in app manager after I add the repositories... red pill mode or blue pill mode. Feb 05 10:50:26 is there an alternate rep for it? Feb 05 10:50:40 * lardman would just do sudo gainroot Feb 05 10:50:55 ^^ Feb 05 10:51:08 yeah, I'll look up the process for R&D mode Feb 05 10:51:20 You use the flasher to set a flag Feb 05 10:51:41 nice and easy :) Feb 05 10:51:43 Retten: what does 'sudo gainroot' typed in xterm return for you now? Feb 05 10:51:46 I remember becomeroot being really easy when I first got the 770, was hoping to use it again cause I'm lazy... 8) Feb 05 10:52:12 it returns a smart-assed line about "use R&D mode if you want to break your device" Feb 05 10:52:38 ok i don't remember what i did for os2007he Feb 05 10:52:40 i get root with ssh localhost ^^ Feb 05 10:52:46 yeah Feb 05 10:52:59 somehow its a problem on my n800 to make sudo gainroot Feb 05 10:53:15 yeah, I'm installing dropbear right now, wqas going to use the alternate root access through SSH Feb 05 10:53:45 * pupnik_ gets coffee "another day, another build" Feb 05 10:53:54 the eventual goal is to have 2006 on the flash, and 2007HE on a 2gb MMC. (Kingston) Feb 05 10:53:57 <|tbb|> retten: go gronmayer.de/it then search for becomeroot add eko.pl repository ,after then install become root from application manager Feb 05 10:54:20 ok, I'll give that a try Feb 05 10:58:00 hmmm... dropbear is taking a while to install Feb 05 10:58:12 prob does keygen Feb 05 10:59:41 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16186 Feb 05 10:59:52 he has a good point, what is the Easter Egg? Feb 05 11:01:08 Notthing. Feb 05 11:01:32 so where did the rumours start? Feb 05 11:05:56 lardman: Texrat? :) Feb 05 11:06:46 Yeah, drumming up interest I suppose Feb 05 11:07:13 I still haven't seen high res pictures of the inside of a N810? :) Feb 05 11:07:32 I thought most of the chips were obscured anyway Feb 05 11:08:16 by metal shields, so it will have to wait for a completely dead one that someone is willing to sacrifice Feb 05 11:08:36 I wonder if the repair manual will appear in due course, that's as good Feb 05 11:09:09 lardman: Nah, you can pop them off. But it won't be pretty :) Feb 05 11:10:14 Thanks for the help, got becomeroot installed, now I'm off to handle the rest! Feb 05 11:13:26 good morning Feb 05 11:16:11 morning florian Feb 05 11:28:35 Hey, I have downloaded Super Mario Wars from pupnik.de, and i was wondering how i play it after i installed it? Feb 05 11:29:33 pupnik: might be one for you :) Feb 05 11:29:42 Altcod3r: open up the terminal and type smw Feb 05 11:29:51 terminal? Feb 05 11:30:00 osso-xterm Feb 05 11:30:08 oh hi Feb 05 11:30:37 working on another game port atm - but SMW should get attention soon Feb 05 11:31:00 come on pupnik I want to fly over textured terrain! Feb 05 11:31:17 making a game out of it lardman. got controls dialed-in now. Feb 05 11:31:25 cool :) Feb 05 11:31:49 not gonna do textures though Feb 05 11:32:25 booo ;) Feb 05 11:32:55 i think i can incorporate gameplay and keep fps ~60 though Feb 05 11:33:01 and that'd be pretty much a first Feb 05 11:33:08 I can see osso-xterm in my application mamanger, but I don't know what to do from here =[ Feb 05 11:33:14 you could sacrifice 58fps and do textures! Feb 05 11:33:32 Altcod3r: open it, and type at the terminal which will appear Feb 05 11:33:36 exactly Feb 05 11:34:04 I don't know how to open it though =[ Feb 05 11:34:18 tap on the icon Feb 05 11:34:26 ah, app manager Feb 05 11:34:30 what machine is this? Feb 05 11:34:36 n800 Feb 05 11:34:40 os2008? Feb 05 11:34:44 yes Feb 05 11:34:51 should be pre-installed then Feb 05 11:35:00 on the utilities menu, right down the bottom Feb 05 11:35:04 iirc Feb 05 11:35:13 :O Feb 05 11:35:16 Thank you! Feb 05 11:36:13 So after the ~ $ I put SMW? Feb 05 11:36:13 small letters yes Feb 05 11:36:17 oooo Feb 05 11:36:21 thank you so much =] Feb 05 11:38:12 <|tbb|> hi collin Feb 05 11:38:55 <|tbb|> _collin_ could u port the iodine for bora also so i can use it with my n770 HE Feb 05 11:42:44 lol, i got a funny spam-mail: Feb 05 11:42:46 We are delighted to inform you of your prize and Brand new Apple Iphone Feb 05 11:42:47 Nokia 8GB release on the 25th Jan, 2008 from the NOKIA 'N' SERIES NEW Feb 05 11:42:47 YEAR PROGRAM. Feb 05 11:53:24 hi all, just wish to see whether you have tried 'ddd' to debug mozilla, and do you know how? Feb 05 12:06:00 * lardman can see sunshine, time to test the GPS again Feb 05 12:06:01 no! no! nooooo! Windows 95 on the tablets... http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15893 Feb 05 12:07:26 Anyway i was wondering whether running Garnet Vm and booting Windows 95 from there might be somewhat possible. Feb 05 12:07:34 2 layers of emulation, sounds painful Feb 05 12:08:34 sounds pointless Feb 05 12:08:37 and clueless Feb 05 12:08:48 a recipe for someone to waste hours and hours and hours Feb 05 12:08:49 clueless certainly, I imagine it's very very very slow Feb 05 12:08:58 but not pointless, if it can be done why not :) Feb 05 12:13:06 though there are certainly other things I'd do before that, like tidying the house Feb 05 12:26:23 does someone know how to make 'PL_pl' locale appear as 'Polski' in controlpanel? Feb 05 12:36:42 I added a feature request for AGPS: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2890 Feb 05 12:41:29 http://folks.o-hand.com/jku/osso-gpsd/osso-gpsd_1.0-25_armel.deb missing Feb 05 12:41:55 ah new version Feb 05 13:33:21 How to tell good code from bad code: http://www.osnews.com/images/comics/wtfm.jpg Feb 05 13:34:10 pupnik: :) Feb 05 13:35:22 it's wise to write shitty undocumented code Feb 05 13:35:56 solmumaha: So you at least don't make dumb mistakes in the comments? Feb 05 13:36:09 company can't replace you Feb 05 13:37:35 Hehe Feb 05 13:40:51 pupnik, reminds me of: 12:24 < jkyro> like, http://crap.teurasporsaat.org/archive/6246.jpg Feb 05 13:46:58 http://maemostuff.com/ much coolness here Feb 05 13:48:51 Somebody needs to invest some time into putting together some customization kits for powerlaunch Feb 05 13:51:06 pupnik: Indeed, cool stuff. Feb 05 13:59:02 I think johnx was looking for a battery monitor solution for debian-armel.. Feb 05 13:59:08 * Jaffa sees GeneralAntilles and remembers to go looking in yesterday's logs for stuff about his RFC. Too busy at work at the moment to pay attention to IRC all day :-( Feb 05 13:59:18 * Jaffa also pokes X-Fade cos GeneralAntilles suggested he should Feb 05 13:59:33 Jaffa: What can I do for you? Feb 05 14:03:25 X-Fade: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16114&page=2#post138084 in relation to http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/01/13/solving_the_lack_of_qa_and_muliple_repos Feb 05 14:04:28 juhu, mein female/female usb adapter is here !!!! :) Feb 05 14:04:39 Jaffa: I have been working on that all day today ;) Feb 05 14:04:58 Jaffa: And Quim just mailed me about it too ;) Feb 05 14:05:19 X-Fade: cool, excellent :-) Feb 05 14:05:40 Of course, given my box is currently suffering somewhat with dying harddrives, mail delivery may be "fun". Feb 05 14:06:08 Jaffa: I'm trying to get the stats for extras. So developers can see how popular their app is. Feb 05 14:06:40 Jaffa: And am also trying to find out if we can use some auto builder from Nokia, or if we should start making our own.. Feb 05 14:07:07 does someone know how to make custom keyboard layouts for maemo? Feb 05 14:07:25 Isn't maemostuff.com misusing the maemo name Feb 05 14:07:34 additional ones, not changing present ones Feb 05 14:07:43 hrw: There is an alternative layouts project on garage, I think.. Feb 05 14:08:02 IIRC nokia made a comment that the name maemo should not be used by others than Nokia Feb 05 14:08:22 X-Fade: arabic/hebrew one? Feb 05 14:08:41 inz: And all projects that were started before the trademark was active.. Feb 05 14:08:58 X-Fade, but maemostuff.com was created 30-Jan-08 Feb 05 14:08:58 hrw: I thought there was an other one too. Feb 05 14:09:08 ok Feb 05 14:09:10 i bet there still noone who wants to test offline wikipedia for n8x0? ^^ Feb 05 14:09:44 hrw: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/xkblayouts/ ? Feb 05 14:09:56 inz: That would violate the trademark. Feb 05 14:10:17 X-Fade, (I registered maemo-hackers.org on 31-May-2005, so I'm not violating ;) Feb 05 14:10:39 X-Fade: I am there Feb 05 14:11:14 inz: http://maemo.org/intro/trademarks/ Feb 05 14:11:36 <|tbb|> aendit where did you get it from (usb gender changer) Feb 05 14:11:56 from amazon Feb 05 14:12:22 or no, ive got it from ebay, but there also one on amazon Feb 05 14:12:51 What if he pronounces maemo differently? Feb 05 14:15:43 mae-most-uff? ;) Feb 05 14:16:24 my-mo-stuff - not sure what Mo Stuff is ;-) Feb 05 14:16:47 itT has the right idea Feb 05 14:17:30 Not using the name may-mo, my-mo, or whatever it is Feb 05 14:17:46 Jaffa: How would you think we proceed with extras? Try to get the promoting interface up and gather some sort of Motu group? Feb 05 14:21:17 X-Fade: yeah, that's what I'd've said was the next step Feb 05 14:28:05 X-Fade: they workaround problem ;( Feb 05 14:28:29 X-Fade: and replace one of official layouts with own (at least it looks like) Feb 05 14:32:25 Jaffa: I'm looking into https://garage.maemo.org/promoter-beta/interface.py Feb 05 14:32:48 Jaffa: But it won't let me in atm ;) I'll see what's up.. Feb 05 14:35:20 * Jaffa isn't sure about that, TBH. Might be most useful for promoting stuff which the author is too reticent to push to extras (whereas part of my spec included demoting things which weren't good enough for extras ;-)) Feb 05 14:35:43 Jaffa: Ah, I have access now ;) Feb 05 14:36:13 Jaffa: Yeah sure. A group of people should guard the quality. If a package does bad things it should be demoted.. Feb 05 14:42:58 and the author stabbed repeatedly Feb 05 14:43:06 * Tak apply to quality guard group Feb 05 14:43:23 vote: the coolest thing you can connect to your nokia with usb! Feb 05 14:43:40 A doomsday device. Feb 05 14:43:43 a keyboard is uber Feb 05 14:44:02 well, something you can byuy on amazon ;) Feb 05 14:44:14 Any people who could help out with coding the promotion/demotion interface in python? Feb 05 14:44:39 prmotion/demotion? Feb 05 14:44:55 not that i would be a python hacker ^^ im just curious Feb 05 14:44:57 Misha has done a lot of work already, I think he wouldn't mind a helping hand.. Feb 05 14:45:05 Alendit_: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-January/013921.html Feb 05 14:47:04 GeneralAntilles, Alendit_: http://tinyurl.com/yu7tqe Feb 05 14:48:30 quick Q, anyone have any suggestions for a program to stream video form a nokia n810 to a desktop (the built in camera/mic) Feb 05 14:48:30 rofl Feb 05 14:49:03 but this one got no usb && Feb 05 14:49:09 ^^ Feb 05 14:49:42 <_collin_> Bofu2U: use gtalk Feb 05 14:49:53 <_collin_> just need a gtalk client on your PC Feb 05 14:49:57 remember the system shock hack project? Feb 05 14:49:57 would be wonderful to play ultima underworld games on portables Feb 05 14:50:01 <_collin_> then call the PC from your device Feb 05 14:50:03 I take back most of my abuse about the built-in GPS, my iBlue couldn't get a lock on my balcony either. The built in got a lock on my 5min trip back to work Feb 05 14:50:19 does someone know is it possible to edit list of chars which appear after press of 'Chr' key (n810)? Feb 05 14:50:21 _collin_: I thought about that, one pre-req is the PC needs to accept multiple-streams and display them at the same time heh Feb 05 14:50:32 pupnik: yeah, that's what I was thinking about the other day when I mentioned the UW ports Feb 05 14:50:43 <_collin_> Bofu2U: then take a look at gstreamer Feb 05 14:51:05 <_collin_> Bofu2U: you will need to write code ... I guess Feb 05 14:51:11 gstreamer? thanks a lot. :) Feb 05 14:51:12 <|tbb|> hi collin Feb 05 14:51:19 <|tbb|> have you noticed my request? Feb 05 14:51:21 that was the plan collin, so that works for me. Thanks a lot. :) Feb 05 14:51:25 could a N800 owner check the version of 'osso-gpsd' on OS2008 2.2007.50-2? Feb 05 14:51:32 <_collin_> |tbb|: what request? Feb 05 14:51:44 "apt-cache show osso-gpsd" should work Feb 05 14:52:04 <|tbb|> iodine4.1 for bora also, need it for my n770 he Feb 05 14:52:21 "apt-cache policy" is better Feb 05 14:52:35 <_collin_> |tbb|: mmh I would need to install the older sdk ... Feb 05 14:53:01 <_collin_> |tbb|: I'll do it if both SDKs work nicely together Feb 05 14:53:05 jku: hi Feb 05 14:53:17 Jaffa, Tak: Do you guys also think that the many repositories problem is also caused by the hassle to upload packages to extras? It is easier to create your own repository? Feb 05 14:53:22 1.0-25 Feb 05 14:53:23 jku: I got a reply Feb 05 14:53:38 hrw, right you are (hi!) Feb 05 14:53:41 <_collin_> X-Fade: that was my point Feb 05 14:53:48 GeneralAntilles, thanks Feb 05 14:53:58 that explains a _lot_ Feb 05 14:54:10 _collin_: Yeah, so we would need a better upload interface too ;) Feb 05 14:54:12 X-Fade: I think that the difficulty to upload packages to extras is /one/ of the causes of the many-repositories problem Feb 05 14:54:22 jku: I am trying to be main source of hard questions which no one is able to answer Feb 05 14:54:27 Tak: yeah, ofcourse ;) Feb 05 14:54:28 lardman,yeah? Feb 05 14:54:49 jku: nvd_data may contain the almanac/ephemeris Feb 05 14:54:53 X-Fade: maemo still lack autobuilder functionality? Feb 05 14:55:29 jku: I've added a bug to see if we can get either a yes/no on AGPS or a format for that file to DIY Feb 05 14:55:33 hrw: They use that inside Nokia. But there is nothing available for the community...... yet. Feb 05 14:55:53 X-Fade: maemo is young.. just 4 years... Feb 05 14:55:54 ;D Feb 05 14:56:00 hrw: I thought that was where chinook-compat comes in? Feb 05 14:56:05 <_collin_> building is easy Feb 05 14:56:06 I suspect that the primary cause is people not wanting to do anything more than build a deb and cp blah.deb /var/www/maemo Feb 05 14:56:16 <_collin_> dh_make + dpkgbuildpackage Feb 05 14:56:23 no amount of friendlifying garage extras will help that Feb 05 14:56:26 lardman: the question is 'will maemo use it' rather Feb 05 14:56:27 easy but annoying to have to build lots of deps Feb 05 14:56:30 lardman, good, hope they won't just stone wall Feb 05 14:56:38 _collin_: Dependencies not so much ;) Feb 05 14:56:55 hrw: well if the community start using it, they may see the light Feb 05 14:56:56 <_collin_> sure dependencies suck Feb 05 14:57:42 <|tbb|> _collin_ if i find someone with bora sdk, will it be hard to compile the your 4.1 for bora? Feb 05 14:58:07 <_collin_> tbb: no it is dh_make + dpkgbuildpackage Feb 05 14:58:09 the community is not quite "quality-aware" IMO Feb 05 14:58:10 Anyone know what "megahoc" is? I see it in my wifi connections list everywhere I go. Feb 05 14:58:24 <_collin_> suihkulokki: the problem is the GUI Feb 05 14:58:27 more like people want to "do a quick hack, show it and forget it" Feb 05 14:59:21 suihkulokki: but if those who do build things that are more than a quick hack use OE, and the libs are available for download (what happened to extras?) then perhaps it will grow. Perhaps. Feb 05 14:59:32 suihkulokki: Yeah, but asking Marius to block all external repositories in the next Application manager version, isn't a solution either ;) Feb 05 14:59:57 * |tbb| looks out for someone who has bora sdk on hix box? Please say hello ;) Feb 05 15:00:02 <_collin_> X-Fade: if this happen many developers will stop makeing stuff Feb 05 15:00:12 _collin_: exactly ;) Feb 05 15:00:42 well it's just classic quality vs quantity then =) Feb 05 15:00:48 So we would need to make it as easy as possible, but still guard quality.. Feb 05 15:01:05 <||cw> trevarthan: sounds like another adhoc viral network (not a virus, viral like viral video) like "Free Public WiFi" Feb 05 15:01:16 <_collin_> X-Fade: quality needs people who review/filter Feb 05 15:01:51 ||cw: you don't see it in your connections? Feb 05 15:01:56 <_collin_> developers develop/port then some people need to review .. and upload to extras Feb 05 15:01:57 _collin_: Sure, but that is to be done by the community-quality group ;) Via the promotion interface.. Feb 05 15:02:01 X-Fade: absolutely: it's easier to create a new repo than upload to extras. Feb 05 15:02:16 <||cw> trevarthan: no, but I don't go to densly populated area's much Feb 05 15:02:25 <_collin_> X-Fade: you're laking about maemo.org/downloads ... this is soooo bad /slow Feb 05 15:02:36 X-Fade: so that's one of the reasons I suggested a simple web interface which would add it to the CQG (Community-Quality Group)'s queue. Feb 05 15:03:00 _collin_: We are aware of this ;) Will work on that next week, when I'm in Finland. Feb 05 15:03:07 <_collin_> X-Fade: nice Feb 05 15:03:10 ||cw: I see it in my connections list when I'm out in the middle of the woods. I don't think it actually exists... :) Feb 05 15:03:27 It could also source packages over HTTP or from Garage. So the author says "I want to release some files to extras, they're in Garage project xyzzy" Feb 05 15:03:27 Jaffa: Yep, I think that is the way forward too.. Feb 05 15:03:43 Jaffa: That would be even better ;) Feb 05 15:03:43 <||cw> trevarthan: what happens is that people see hte open network and join it and save it, but there's no server or router on the network so nothing happens, but their computer save it so when they turn on the PC and finds no wlan to join it makes that one Feb 05 15:03:56 <||cw> trevarthan: ah, then YOU joined it once Feb 05 15:03:56 Jaffa: But let's keep that for 2.0. Feb 05 15:04:23 ok. that makes sense. so I should delete it then Feb 05 15:04:25 |tbb|: I still have bora sdk Feb 05 15:04:44 X-Fade: agreeed. v3.0 is automatically spotting them in Garage & pushing them to the queue automatically ;-) Feb 05 15:05:02 garage extras repo is separate from downloads.maemo.org, though Feb 05 15:05:30 Tak: Yeah, but obviously I want to link them somehow :) Feb 05 15:05:49 Jaffa: Heh, yeah that would be really nice. Feb 05 15:05:49 sure, but you're not going to do that while the d.m.o performance is like this... Feb 05 15:06:06 <|tbb|> tak: would you be that friendly and package the iodine 4.1 (chinook) from collin to bora? Feb 05 15:06:11 Tak: Nope, that is what needs to be fixed first. Feb 05 15:07:35 |tbb|: link? Feb 05 15:08:07 hrw: how is the building done for the Ansgtrom feeds; that's what we could do with really. Provide packages and people will use them Feb 05 15:08:30 hrw: I.e. auto-builder, or someone manually does "bitbake world" Feb 05 15:09:46 anyone know which API maemo uses to emit the key clicks? gstreamer? Feb 05 15:10:37 lardman: autobuilder has a list of packages to build. Feb 05 15:10:48 lardman: oe/contrib/angstrom/build-feed.sh iirc Feb 05 15:12:11 hrw: ok, thanks Feb 05 15:12:43 mickeyl: Not gstreamer iirc, the mixing is done in the DSP. Iirc the clicks are produced by alsa/esd/whatever is used nowadays Feb 05 15:12:47 lardman: 'bitbake world' with OE == disaster Feb 05 15:13:02 hrw: and a disaster that takes ages to build too ;) Feb 05 15:13:15 lardman: and breaks Feb 05 15:13:38 lardman: the dsp has hardware mixing? Feb 05 15:14:21 mickeyl: it's a good question, I think not; but I believe that there's a build in mixer task in the DSP Feb 05 15:14:35 k, thanks Feb 05 15:15:42 The hw spec sheet for the audio codec is available on the Ti site if you need/want to check Feb 05 15:15:42 mickeyl: the output of all the tasks on /dev/dsp* are mixed on the dsp Feb 05 15:16:00 one of the pcm* is reserved for the annoying clicker Feb 05 15:16:29 i see, thank Feb 05 15:16:30 suihkulokki: really, it's called from the kernel then? Feb 05 15:16:30 s Feb 05 15:17:04 lardman: you mean the dsp kernel or linux? Feb 05 15:17:51 well, either way - I don't know =) Feb 05 15:18:10 suihkulokki: Linux; but don't worry. Feb 05 15:18:57 * lardman isn't sure he can remember what he thought he heard, let alone explain it Feb 05 15:19:26 cu Feb 05 15:25:33 hmm red pill mode work on a nokia n810? I think I'm having one of those "its right in front of my face" moments as to where the "new" button is in the app. manager Feb 05 15:26:06 yes it works Feb 05 15:26:22 same instructions as to how to enable? (app manager -> new -> matrix, etc?) Feb 05 15:26:52 Bofu2U: open up the menu in app manager Feb 05 15:26:54 yeah, but you need to select the correct menu, the repo list one Feb 05 15:28:17 gracias, got it Feb 05 15:28:26 thanks for the help guys, really appreciate it Feb 05 15:28:28 http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/02/05/localizing-maemo/ Feb 05 15:29:34 is anybody using gcc 4.x for building in maemo? Feb 05 15:29:37 *anybody here Feb 05 15:31:36 pupnik: I am afraid that normal gcc4 results can not be good on system built with csl gcc3 Feb 05 15:31:50 ah ok Feb 05 15:32:01 hrw: added a bug for that Polski thing? Feb 05 15:32:28 and the character list for that matter Feb 05 15:32:38 lardman: I will Feb 05 15:32:55 i find many projects require gcc 3.4 so i am happy we use it Feb 05 15:33:11 but as I summarized - its 4 years old system which does not have localization handled Feb 05 15:34:21 hrw: yes, but they do only sell it in certain locales, so while it's annoying, it's also going to be low priority for them Feb 05 15:36:15 lardman: as many other stuff Feb 05 15:37:17 hrw: Not sure if it helps, but did you look at HIM? http://live.gnome.org/Hildon/HildonInputMethod Feb 05 15:39:32 hrw: It should be easy to define new keyboards via HIM. Or even make a plugin for the keyboard. Feb 05 15:39:40 X-Fade: I can get most of problems in my post handled by hacks Feb 05 15:40:04 like having Polish hardware keyboard known as 'Italian' for example Feb 05 15:40:10 but it is not solution Feb 05 15:49:02 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2892 Feb 05 15:50:09 polish, italian, whatever ;-P Feb 05 15:51:20 Tak: ;D Feb 05 15:56:17 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2893 Feb 05 15:56:56 now 2 years to get answer ;d Feb 05 16:01:36 hrw: 2 years in maemo Bugzilla? That's a spring chicken compared with the OS2005 bug #303 which is still open Feb 05 16:02:07 Jaffa: but my bugs are fresh still so.. Feb 05 16:02:22 Jaffa: I do not expect answer anyway Feb 05 16:02:50 Jaffa: or rather - I will be not surprised if there will be no reply in 2 years Feb 05 16:11:50 Haha, #303 is too much. Feb 05 16:15:21 303 is indeed nice Feb 05 16:15:57 too bad that maemo^Wnokia guys follow 'keep it too simple stupid' way Feb 05 16:16:24 and "keep it closed source"... Feb 05 16:17:36 o yes Feb 05 16:18:11 Braindead stuff like this is so infuriating. Feb 05 16:24:20 call the gnu-ites to write us a free clock applet Feb 05 16:25:17 So, it looks like the partition table on my internal memory card extends past the end of the device. Feb 05 16:25:33 (on the n810, factory image) Feb 05 16:25:41 So when I filled it up, it corrupted the file system. Feb 05 16:25:43 derf: yes it did for me too.. Feb 05 16:25:52 derf: mine was like that too. had to recreate the fs Feb 05 16:26:18 I wish I had known about that _before_ I downloaded half a gig of maps onto it. Feb 05 16:26:20 hmm, good to know Feb 05 16:26:50 And then wasted a lot of time trying to figure out why maemo-mapper was crashing all the damn time. Feb 05 16:31:46 Awesome, and gparted crashes. Feb 05 16:34:20 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=292178 vaguely interesting, but no info on the format itself Feb 05 16:35:07 I need to search the Nokia N95 fora and see if anyone's found a file that contains that data from supl.nokia.com Feb 05 16:36:07 Wow, mkfs.ext3 rebooted the device. Feb 05 16:36:18 I wonder if it succeeded. Feb 05 16:36:28 derf: Don't format your root partition ;) Feb 05 16:36:45 I was formatting the mmc. Feb 05 16:36:56 Which better not have been / Feb 05 16:36:58 derf: Were you using swap on mmc? Feb 05 16:37:08 No. Feb 05 16:37:10 I disabled it. Feb 05 16:37:11 before unmounted it? Feb 05 16:37:21 I was actually doing it over USB. Feb 05 16:37:29 Unmounted on the host. Feb 05 16:38:11 do you have proper module to load? Feb 05 16:38:12 It doesn't look like it worked. Feb 05 16:38:30 I have no idea... it doesn't ship with at least an ext2 module? Feb 05 16:38:49 ext3.ko? Feb 05 16:38:51 Yes, it does. Feb 05 16:39:14 load it first Feb 05 16:39:31 and put appropriate line in fstab Feb 05 16:39:40 derf, it was, evidently, an issue discovered during testing that somehow made it into the shipping units. Feb 05 16:39:51 Oh, fstab. Good idea. Feb 05 16:40:03 It apparently hardcodes the fstype. Feb 05 16:40:11 heh Feb 05 16:40:32 zoran: The module appears to be already loaded after boot. Feb 05 16:40:35 Billy gave it to you? Feb 05 16:40:52 the patched osso-gpsd didn't seem to improve my gps experience much. still not getting a fix while walking outside Feb 05 16:41:00 I recall problems formating in ext3 on gregale Feb 05 16:41:17 on the native device, derf Feb 05 16:41:26 ext2 went fine Feb 05 16:41:45 Wait... why does fstab have it as /dev/mmcblk0p1 mounted at /media/mmc1, when it's always shown up as /media/mmc2? Feb 05 16:41:58 zoran: I said, I formatted over USB. Feb 05 16:42:00 lcdd: it won't affect cold starts, in fact it shouldn't even affect warm starts as gpsd shouldn't really have anything to do with reloading the last saved position Feb 05 16:42:06 derf, k Feb 05 16:42:11 All I had on the device as mkfs.vfat. Feb 05 16:42:16 And, you know, screw that. Feb 05 16:42:23 I just think backward abount my problems Feb 05 16:42:36 hm mkfs.ext3 worked fine on my device (as did an fdisk i compiled) Feb 05 16:42:53 yes, I recall proper tool in repo Feb 05 16:42:57 lardman: i see Feb 05 16:43:09 have a min? Feb 05 16:44:13 e2fsprogs or alike Feb 05 16:45:10 it should make ext2/3 Feb 05 16:45:39 mkfs.ext3 Feb 05 16:45:49 In what repository? Feb 05 16:45:52 apt-cache shows nothing. Feb 05 16:46:16 take a look: repository/maemo.org/pool/whatever/free/e/ Feb 05 16:46:39 http://cms.openmobilealliance.org/technical/release_program/docs/SUPL/V1_0-20070615-A/OMA-TS-ULP-V1_0-20070615-A.pdf p11 :) Feb 05 16:46:54 for those interested in AGPS datasources that is Feb 05 16:46:59 I used included app to repartition my mmc Feb 05 16:47:15 sfdisk or something Feb 05 16:47:37 and made swap as partition also Feb 05 16:47:41 I didn't even know there was one. And I refuse to use FAT if I don't have to. Feb 05 16:47:51 :) Feb 05 16:48:10 Billy will catch you! Feb 05 16:49:06 No, it just sucks. Feb 05 16:49:13 hm, what? Feb 05 16:49:17 FAT. The filesystem. Feb 05 16:49:32 don't make it then, make ext2/3 Feb 05 16:49:38 That's what I'm doing. Feb 05 16:49:46 Found e2fsprogs. Feb 05 16:49:54 maybe is should be called vfat? Feb 05 16:50:02 fat is 16 bit Feb 05 16:50:23 short names etc Feb 05 16:50:24 Or 12 bit. Feb 05 16:50:27 Or whatever. Feb 05 16:50:29 yeah Feb 05 16:50:29 It's all crap. Feb 05 16:50:36 agree Feb 05 16:50:47 lardman: Looks interesting! Feb 05 16:51:17 I bought new 2 gb flash forom kingston and found it 16 bit fat formatted Feb 05 16:51:55 lardman: But that AUTH part looks bad :( Feb 05 16:51:58 support service confirmed that and said "reformat then, you picky" Feb 05 16:52:12 X-Fade: well it's a start at least Feb 05 16:52:30 mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc1 failed Feb 05 16:52:44 lardman: But you should first be certain that the gpsdriver supports it. Feb 05 16:52:47 what fs? Feb 05 16:52:50 ext3 Feb 05 16:53:01 k, make it after reboot Feb 05 16:53:02 X-Fade: indeed, we need to know the format of nvd_data Feb 05 16:53:10 I _did_ make it after a reboot. Feb 05 16:53:13 to let device to see it as new partition Feb 05 16:53:16 k Feb 05 16:53:37 whatdo you have after listing modules? Feb 05 16:53:42 the internal card is mounted to mmc2 by default Feb 05 16:54:21 derf, would you, for science sake, format in ext2, just to see Feb 05 16:54:36 and load ext2.ko Feb 05 16:54:41 ext3 mounts as ext2.. Feb 05 16:55:01 and ext3 works fine here ;) (on internal card) Feb 05 16:55:12 Okay, I rebooted again and this time it worked. Feb 05 16:55:16 I don't know why. Feb 05 16:55:19 On mmc2, no less. Feb 05 16:55:20 ah nice.. Feb 05 16:55:22 * |tbb| != good at math Feb 05 16:55:27 Instead of mmc1 like fstab says. Feb 05 16:55:32 I have no idea where it's getting that from. Feb 05 16:55:35 partition table is taken in account Feb 05 16:56:01 Actually, it rewrote my /etc/fstab, wiping out my changes. Feb 05 16:56:07 That's pretty damn annoying. Feb 05 16:56:10 man... Feb 05 16:56:21 I never sae that Feb 05 16:56:26 *saw Feb 05 16:56:41 Or I changed it back to vfat and forgot, but I'm pretty sure I didn't. Feb 05 16:57:03 vfat is correct on linux, fat on bsd Feb 05 16:57:06 the automount stuff on the n8x0 is quite agressive Feb 05 16:57:18 I've been up for 19 hours, so I may not necessarily be trustworthy. Feb 05 16:57:33 zoran: No, ext3 is correct. Feb 05 16:57:42 it found your fs-s and changed fstab? Feb 05 16:58:05 Hmm why did I miss this auto-builder that Nokia uses. And source is available: http://www.bifh.org/wiki/sbdmock Feb 05 16:58:12 It both mounted the ext3 card as /media/mmc2, and changed fstab to have a vfat entry for the same device as /media/mmc1. Feb 05 16:58:14 derf, I thought about ms fs recently Feb 05 16:58:27 So I really have no idea what is going on. Feb 05 16:58:43 user@Nokia-N810-42-19 ~ $ cat /etc/fstab Feb 05 16:58:49 rootfs / rootfs defaults,errors=remount-ro,noatime 0 0 Feb 05 16:58:49 /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc1 vfat rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999 0 0 Feb 05 16:58:50 could you see where is it places, mmxblkp0 or what? Feb 05 16:58:55 user@Nokia-N810-42-19 ~ $ mount Feb 05 16:59:04 ... Feb 05 16:59:05 /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc2 type ext3 (rw,data=ordered) Feb 05 16:59:10 derf: i worked around it by having a small partition in front of the main partition ;) Feb 05 16:59:29 vfat should be the very first? Feb 05 16:59:32 No, I mean it works, but it makes no sense. Feb 05 16:59:44 yeah it's broken i think initfs messes around there Feb 05 16:59:58 Well, maybe it works. Feb 05 17:00:01 some daemon changed it for it's onw behalf Feb 05 17:00:08 maemo-mapper seems to be downloading maps onto it okay. Feb 05 17:00:47 if I would find that behaveour on my home bsd, I 'd reinstall it! Feb 05 17:01:38 zoran: sounds like an infinte loop if you would do the same on the n810 ;) Feb 05 17:01:45 derf, the same partition is seen twice as 2 diff types Feb 05 17:02:12 could you say correct partition? Feb 05 17:02:12 No. Feb 05 17:02:21 sec! Feb 05 17:02:32 The partition is listed in /etc/fstab as one type and one location. Feb 05 17:02:38 /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc1 vfat Feb 05 17:02:46 But actually mounted as the correct type in a different location. Feb 05 17:02:55 /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc2 type ext3 (rw,data=ordered) Feb 05 17:04:23 Whoops, wrote some stuff into the wrong channel... Feb 05 17:04:26 11:43:05 < derf> It's almost 2AM and I'd like to be up by 7 with maps ready to go. Feb 05 17:04:29 11:43:10 < derf> So, you know.... Feb 05 17:04:32 11:43:20 < derf> Not into compiling things tonight. Feb 05 17:04:34 11:45:10 < derf> [ 64.125000] JFFS2 notice: (403) check_node_data: wrong data CRC in data node at 0x0a777d34: read 0x14eacb25, calculated 0xe560d948. Feb 05 17:04:38 11:45:10 < derf> [ 66.906250] JFFS2 notice: (403) check_node_data: wrong data CRC in data node at 0x08ef0754: read 0xa1a0966c, calculated 0x16df4dbb. Feb 05 17:04:41 11:45:19 < derf> Nice, looks like the rootfs is corrupt, also. Feb 05 17:05:07 if you formatted mmc1, how it was seen as mmc2 Feb 05 17:05:16 zoran: I didn't format mmc1. Feb 05 17:05:23 I formated /dev/mmcblk0p1 Feb 05 17:05:29 eh? Feb 05 17:05:36 my bad Feb 05 17:05:39 Which has always been mounted as /media/mmc2 Feb 05 17:05:51 I don't know why it's listed as /media/mmc1 in /etc/fstab Feb 05 17:06:05 follow the link and see Feb 05 17:06:22 or change fstab by the hand Feb 05 17:06:39 I _did_ change /etc/fstab. Feb 05 17:06:45 It changed it back on reboot. Feb 05 17:06:58 green men?! Feb 05 17:07:21 More like gremlins. Feb 05 17:07:22 some sudo crap? Feb 05 17:07:28 Who knows? Feb 05 17:07:43 I just hate sudo Feb 05 17:07:54 does anyone have an idea how to set up a default proxy for any connection not just on a per connection basis? Feb 05 17:08:24 privoxy? Feb 05 17:09:25 found that too - but thought there might be a better way - since it means wasting some memory and cpu power just for redirection Feb 05 17:09:52 some option in ifconfig? Feb 05 17:10:12 linux has something to do that in conf file for wifi0 or alike Feb 05 17:10:37 have no device handy Feb 05 17:11:02 basically it would be perfect to have a way to choose a default proxy if the connection does not have more specific proxy settings Feb 05 17:11:30 shouldn't the proxy be the ap? Feb 05 17:11:42 hm - never heard of proxy settings in ifconfig actually Feb 05 17:12:07 there are some strange options in bsd version Feb 05 17:13:06 but, you _have_ to go through ap Feb 05 17:13:17 no - actually when I'm in an "insecure WLAN" (Internet Cafe, whatever) I want certain traffic through my openvpn tunnel to a secured squid proxy Feb 05 17:13:29 and route should have it as default for the first time Feb 05 17:13:34 so I'm going "through" the AP but crypted through my tunnel Feb 05 17:13:56 layer 3? Feb 05 17:14:16 currently I configure the "secure" sites with a proxy.pac file on a webserver - but it is annoying to enter this for every new wlan connection Feb 05 17:14:29 corona: how is openvpn on the tablet working for you? Feb 05 17:14:43 it is ssl/tls Feb 05 17:14:51 bye Feb 05 17:14:58 where do you get vnc for os2008? Feb 05 17:15:45 i mean vnc server Feb 05 17:16:13 lcdd, working perfectly - constantly pings its vpn server and reconnects as soon as I reach the next wifi spot. I use this for example to connect Xchat so a vpn secured IRC bouncer - as soon as the tunnel is up xchat reconnects and the irc proxy gives me an update on what I was missing Feb 05 17:16:37 miau that is actually Feb 05 17:17:15 Alendit_, google. ;) Feb 05 17:17:19 :P Feb 05 17:17:33 ooo Feb 05 17:17:33 or garage Feb 05 17:17:44 Opera Mobile 9.5 Feb 05 17:17:48 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/2780/x11vnc_0.9.3-1_armel.deb Feb 05 17:17:48 Linux beta soon? Feb 05 17:17:52 http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/video-opera-mobile-9-5-redesign-is-lickity-quick-slick/ Feb 05 17:18:16 zoran, it is ssl/tls? Feb 05 17:18:23 as I know Feb 05 17:18:40 uses that Feb 05 17:18:45 I prefer to have my unencrypted traffic through openvpn Feb 05 17:18:51 correct me if I'm wrong Feb 05 17:18:54 zoran, you mean openvpn? yes, correct Feb 05 17:19:00 corona: i guess i'm going to try it then Feb 05 17:19:27 thx Feb 05 17:19:58 fine way to be safe and look sexy at public place Feb 05 17:20:45 actually tried to fiddle with the proxy settings in about:config of the browser - but the proxy settings obviously are ignored in favor of the "per connection" proxy settings Feb 05 17:21:17 per connection is fine actually but I would love to have a global override Feb 05 17:21:22 default route may be said to use forword/default Feb 05 17:22:12 before wpa_supplicant Feb 05 17:22:19 before dhclient Feb 05 17:24:10 actually I could have the openvpn tunnel as my default route - but that would mean that I'm "as slow" as the tunnel. Being in NY for example and do your surfing via tunnel in germany is not an optimal setup (just for banking maybe ;)) Feb 05 17:24:56 how can i hook my router up to my microwave oven to share my data with the entire town? Feb 05 17:25:00 oop wrong channel Feb 05 17:25:04 the NSA probably has a law against that actually ;) Feb 05 17:25:21 NSA is above the law! Feb 05 17:25:21 chicken inside also Feb 05 17:25:33 The NSA is the law. Feb 05 17:25:35 sorry - I meant "divine ruling" Feb 05 17:26:34 pupnik, if the explosion is strong enough, whole town would know Feb 05 17:26:37 NSA can't actually do anything to anyone Feb 05 17:27:01 they can just give info to FBI or SS or now DHS, who are the ones that will be breaking down your door Feb 05 17:27:23 keep the door open and confuse them Feb 05 17:27:40 they will walk around in panic then Feb 05 17:28:53 I will flee using my openvpn tunnel when the break through my door ... Feb 05 17:29:21 corona, as gentleman, let them go first Feb 05 17:30:16 maybe I can mind-melt with a floppy disk Feb 05 17:30:55 hm, floppies are still around? Feb 05 17:31:14 yepp - they just label them "SD-Card" now Feb 05 17:31:51 some1 is knocking on my door. corona, they missed the continet! Feb 05 17:32:02 "duck and cover" Feb 05 17:32:03 I'll send them to you Feb 05 17:32:19 tall, 2 arms, two legs... Feb 05 17:32:25 4 eyes Feb 05 17:32:48 "holding a tablet" to make it perfect Feb 05 17:33:03 and has floppy high in the air Feb 05 17:33:50 they will recognize you if you put "table" sticker on it Feb 05 17:34:07 * corona . o O ( feeling safe now ) Feb 05 17:35:04 * zoran gone to feed dragons Feb 05 18:07:16 wow... JKDefrag is like the best thing ever. Feb 05 18:07:25 why? Feb 05 18:08:02 took my drive from 900,000 fragments (like... 85% fragmented!!!!!) to < 3% fragmented... in only 8 hours Feb 05 18:08:41 8 hours? Feb 05 18:08:46 I hope that drive was completely full Feb 05 18:08:52 or freaking huge Feb 05 18:11:56 time for my ddaily repeat question Feb 05 18:12:59 does anyone know how i can disconect the core pointer from the stylus Feb 05 18:13:40 elb: yes and yes] Feb 05 18:13:58 elb: i was previously running Defraggler for 30ish hours... with almost no impact Feb 05 18:14:14 cool give me a hint Feb 05 18:14:35 smackpotato != elb Feb 05 18:14:54 elb: the visual representation of my drive's fragmentation was a huge solid red square <_< Feb 05 18:15:11 What fs? Feb 05 18:15:14 NTFS <_< Feb 05 18:15:18 Ha Feb 05 18:15:20 Fail. Feb 05 18:15:23 i hate my life. Feb 05 18:15:39 sorry the white brain cells were not connecting to the gray Feb 05 18:15:44 I have a job, job == windows, at least in this case <_< Feb 05 18:15:59 Can't you just run a VM or something? :P Feb 05 18:16:06 heh Feb 05 18:16:16 not a terrible idea Feb 05 18:16:20 i've thought about it... Feb 05 18:16:47 did you notice a performance improvement, after degragmenting? Feb 05 18:17:06 but compiling the CDs for the software already takes like 6 hours <_< i'm afraid of what putting that in a VM would do Feb 05 18:17:07 elb: YES Feb 05 18:17:13 elb: my computer was essentially unusable Feb 05 18:17:47 nice Feb 05 18:18:09 elb: it was taking windows picture viewer up to 3 minutes to load a 500kb jpg... programs were crashing.... double clicking on "My Computer" was taking upwards of a minute to come up.... and any clicking on the taskbar or desktop meant at least 30 seconds of lag and apps not responding Feb 05 18:18:30 i thought my hard disk was failing <_< Feb 05 18:18:32 Haha Feb 05 18:18:42 Windows is hilarious fail. Feb 05 18:18:53 but i rebooted into an ubuntu livecd and did a bunch of SMART tests, but everything came up clean <_< Feb 05 18:18:53 it's not only windows Feb 05 18:18:58 we had a nfs server which ground to halt due to fragmentation Feb 05 18:19:01 then i looked at my drive fragmentation :/ Feb 05 18:20:20 claws-mail doesn't flash the led when imap messages arrive from gmail? Feb 05 18:30:49 hey guys, I'm trying to get to the bottom of this gpsd-problem, and during the research it has turned up that people seem to have different package versions even on same OS revisions (without any knowledge of an upgrade)... Feb 05 18:31:17 I blame Nokia. Feb 05 18:31:41 I've got reports of osso-gpsd version 1.0-23 and 1.0-25 on OS 50-2 Feb 05 18:31:55 (not just osso-gpsd, but that was one example) Feb 05 18:32:29 could anyone check if they actually have osso-gpsd 1.0-23 on OS v50-2 Feb 05 18:33:26 It shouldn't be possible as osso-software-version 2.2007.50-2 depends on osso-gpsd 1.0-25 but still people on ITT forums report such configurations Feb 05 18:33:50 I've noticed that people on ITT report a lot of things Feb 05 18:34:02 my 50-2 has 25 at least Feb 05 18:34:13 elb, yeah, but not just one person Feb 05 18:34:36 mine has 23 Feb 05 18:34:40 on 50-2 Feb 05 18:34:43 theory: people add the SDK repository and then run apt-get upgrade Feb 05 18:35:01 LoCusF, and osso-software-version = 2.2007.50-2 Feb 05 18:35:06 oh, ok Feb 05 18:35:06 no, apt wouldn't just downgrade... Feb 05 18:35:07 um it was, until I upgraded to your version, joku Feb 05 18:35:16 *jku Feb 05 18:35:28 jku: could you run apt-cache policy osso-gpsd on your tablet/ Feb 05 18:35:54 mine shows just one available version (1.0-25), which is the currently installed one and not available from any repo Feb 05 18:36:02 osso-software-version = 2.2007.50-2 Feb 05 18:36:31 eh, that request was meant for LoCusF Feb 05 18:36:32 mgedmin, same here (although my currently installed version is my modified one) Feb 05 18:36:40 :) thought so Feb 05 18:36:43 and before he upgraded :) Feb 05 18:36:51 mgedmin: I've got 1.0-23 Feb 05 18:36:59 mgedmin: from repository.maemo.org Feb 05 18:37:09 I had Feb 05 18:37:26 so, it is the older SDK version replacing the newer device version somehow Feb 05 18:37:41 lol Feb 05 18:37:41 that just shouldn't happen... Feb 05 18:37:54 This is maemo we're talking about here. :P Feb 05 18:38:46 I mean osso-software-version depends on 1.0-25 so it can't be downgraded Feb 05 18:39:05 ...even if you tried Feb 05 18:39:56 well, an apt-get dist-upgrade might just remove osso-software-version Feb 05 18:40:01 unless some images had 1.0-23 and some had 1.0-25 Feb 05 18:40:07 which is unlikely :) Feb 05 18:41:53 anyone with osso-gpsd 1.0-23 currently installed on the latest image? Feb 05 18:48:51 yep jku Feb 05 18:49:23 Nope, running your patched .25 iirc Feb 05 18:49:35 smackpotato, yesh, don't do anything! you're a research subject now Feb 05 18:50:03 heh Feb 05 18:50:15 smackpotato, what's your "osso-software-version" version? Feb 05 18:50:48 1.0-255 Feb 05 18:51:03 1.0-25 Feb 05 18:51:16 shacky hand Feb 05 18:51:39 no, I meant a package named "osso-software-version" Feb 05 18:51:41 i installed a patch already Feb 05 18:51:57 smackpotato, ok, nevermind Feb 05 18:52:27 ;) Feb 05 18:54:35 it only helped for a little while Feb 05 19:02:51 this is pretty interesting. sharing S60 packet data with WLAN to other devices (http,https only) http://www.joikuspot.com/JoikuSpot_WhitePaper.pdf Feb 05 19:40:01 johnx: you around? Feb 05 20:05:01 oil_, I saw two of those today Feb 05 20:05:17 it's a ad-hoc wlan implementation really. Feb 05 20:05:31 with a proxy I guess Feb 05 20:08:21 Hi! :D Feb 05 20:08:45 I've a problem and I've a n770 I need to reinstall from 0. Do you know which is the best practise for this? Feb 05 20:09:01 reflash it Feb 05 20:09:10 dragorn, how? Feb 05 20:09:15 dragorn, (link?) Feb 05 20:09:21 with flasher3. docs are on the maemo siet Feb 05 20:09:30 checking Feb 05 20:10:17 hi.....is it possible to change the default WM to another....for example to OpenBox ? Feb 05 20:10:27 is there a file or something which controls which applets are loaded when the desktop starts? Feb 05 20:10:50 I have an applet killing the desktop process everytime I run af-sb-init Feb 05 20:11:30 dererk: http://tinyurl.com/2bunoh Feb 05 20:11:48 fuck... nokia site seems to be not processing php files Feb 05 20:12:46 Tak, unfortuntelly, all links to nokia.com to php files are not being processed Feb 05 20:12:55 like this http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_770.php Feb 05 20:13:09 working fine from here... Feb 05 20:13:26 you don't get the page to enter your "product id" ‽ Feb 05 20:13:31 does it? Feb 05 20:13:38 damn.... Feb 05 20:14:03 Tak, no, not at all Feb 05 20:14:28 Works fine here, too. Feb 05 20:14:34 That's just for OS2006, though. Feb 05 20:14:40 http://paste.debian.net/48506 Feb 05 20:14:42 grrrrrrr Feb 05 20:15:01 is it possible to change the default WM to another....for example to OpenBox ? Feb 05 20:15:29 how about http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/os2007_hacker_edition.php ‽ Feb 05 20:15:54 Tak, not either Feb 05 20:16:05 Tak, are you browsing it from the maemo box ? Feb 05 20:16:11 dererk, what IP does tablets-dev.nokia.com resolve to? Feb 05 20:16:29 $ host tablets-dev.nokia.com Feb 05 20:16:30 tablets-dev.nokia.com is an alias for tablets-dev.nokia.com.edgesuite.net. Feb 05 20:16:35 dererk: no, firefox on a debian workstation Feb 05 20:16:45 Tak, damn :/ Feb 05 20:16:57 tablets-dev.nokia.com on mine is: a1341.g.akamai.net [84.53.178.99] Feb 05 20:17:04 oh Feb 05 20:17:06 that's it Feb 05 20:17:13 I'm pointing to other server Feb 05 20:17:33 $ host tablets-dev.nokia.com.edgesuite.net. Feb 05 20:17:33 tablets-dev.nokia.com.edgesuite.net is an alias for a1341.g.akamai.net Feb 05 20:17:49 $ host a1341.g.akamai.net. Feb 05 20:17:49 a1341.g.akamai.net has address 207.138.82.46 Feb 05 20:18:03 lcuk_3, thanks :) Feb 05 20:18:16 dns problem as the rest of nokia seems to have, akamai are screwed... Feb 05 20:18:37 aha online chess for tablets now possible: http://www.v7f.eu/public/n800/chess/ Feb 05 20:27:37 pupnik: Nice Feb 05 20:33:18 * lcuk_3 puts some money in the irc slot Feb 05 20:39:51 hello Feb 05 20:40:29 do you know how i can fix that http://paste.debian.net/48509? Feb 05 20:42:11 the problem appears (tho i am certainly no expert in such matters) that your scratchbox environment is still running Feb 05 20:42:22 on my vmware box, it says the following to stop it: Feb 05 20:42:23 i never started it Feb 05 20:42:31 i only installed it Feb 05 20:42:35 you could just try and stop it anyway Feb 05 20:42:49 af-sb-init.sh stop Feb 05 20:43:38 * lcuk_3 is working blind and just doing what he would do given same command line output Feb 05 20:44:21 where i can find this script? Feb 05 20:44:48 anyone else notice that if you configure MSN/AIM within accounts, and you have the IT in offline mode with keys disabled (sleep mode, more or less), battery life is greatly reduced? Feb 05 20:45:13 brb Feb 05 20:46:02 heu all... Feb 05 20:49:51 nah it doesn't work Feb 05 20:50:03 [21:48][giskard@piton:~/src]$ sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl stop Feb 05 20:50:05 Stopping Scratchbox: umount, binfmt_misc. Feb 05 20:50:07 [21:49][giskard@piton:~/src]$ sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start Feb 05 20:50:13 Starting Scratchbox: binfmt_misc, mount. Feb 05 20:50:15 [21:49][giskard@piton:~/src]$ Feb 05 20:50:17 i can't login Feb 05 20:50:43 http://paste.debian.net/48511 Feb 05 20:50:43 there are other alternatives to try, the error itself comes up in google Feb 05 20:50:52 for instance: sb-conf killall Feb 05 20:51:59 You dont have active target in scratchbox chroot Feb 05 20:52:00 * lcuk_3 is trying to be all zen tonight whilst pulling his hair out at his own damned problem Feb 05 20:52:50 nah it does't work Feb 05 20:53:45 giskard: try echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled Feb 05 20:54:24 it works Feb 05 20:54:25 thank you Feb 05 20:54:42 np Feb 05 20:55:10 or maybe... grazie ;) Feb 05 21:01:10 Hi. Feb 05 21:01:26 Can anyone tell me if ConIC is supposed to work under Scratchbox? Feb 05 21:02:20 I'm looking at trying to add some features to Maemo Mapper, but the Internet connectivity doesn't seem to be working in my environment. Feb 05 21:03:56 oooooooooook Feb 05 21:04:03 <`0660> i don't think it does Feb 05 21:04:07 I can't use flasher utility either Feb 05 21:04:13 * dererk is really fucked up today Feb 05 21:04:45 Is there some recommended method of developing/testing apps that need Internet connectivity? Feb 05 21:05:20 fredsan; use automake's "make internet" target Feb 05 21:05:34 felipec; it has an al-gore.m4 script Feb 05 21:05:46 <`0660> if i recall right, it shouldn't be more than couple of lines of code to add the internet connectivity to your apps Feb 05 21:05:58 <`0660> if even that Feb 05 21:06:04 s/felipec/fredsan/ Feb 05 21:06:04 desrt meant: fredsan; it has an al-gore.m4 script Feb 05 21:06:18 infobot; uhm... thanks, i guess Feb 05 21:06:44 When I run "make internet", all I get is a series of tubes. Feb 05 21:07:01 Tak, lcuk_3, how could i know which lastest version I could flash on my n770 Feb 05 21:07:03 ? Feb 05 21:07:20 fredsan; erm? Feb 05 21:07:35 check to make sure that your al-gore.m4 isn't a symlink to ted-stevens.m4 Feb 05 21:07:55 I'll have to check on that. Feb 05 21:08:35 dererk, i wouldnt know, ive never even touched a 770 let alone know what to install on it Feb 05 21:10:09 The latest version on the OS2007HE page is the lastest-latest. Feb 05 21:10:20 The latest version on the OS2006 page is the lastest-"stable". Feb 05 21:11:28 GeneralAntilles, would any of them run on a 770 box? Feb 05 21:11:46 OS2006 ONLY runs on the 770. Feb 05 21:11:53 and OS2007HE is the 770 version of OS2007. Feb 05 21:12:20 I understand Feb 05 21:12:34 GeneralAntilles, then both will world, wouldn't they? Feb 05 21:12:46 See above. Feb 05 21:12:52 * dererk wants to be redundant on purpose Feb 05 21:13:47 anyone know of an open source gps routing program? or is the nokia solution the way to acheive routing Feb 05 21:14:03 maemo mapper Feb 05 21:16:00 won't that just follow a route that you import? Will it generate a route on the fly? I don't think the maemo mapper stores road information with the maps Feb 05 21:16:07 ...doesn't *really* do routing (it fakess it) Feb 05 21:16:21 Ah, you want turn-by-turn. Feb 05 21:16:27 aye Feb 05 21:16:29 Then, at the moment, no. Feb 05 21:16:36 Unless you have EDGE or 3G or summuch. Feb 05 21:16:37 any interesting projects to watch? Feb 05 21:16:39 Mapper will do turn-by-turn. But you need Internet connectivity. Feb 05 21:16:54 I have 3G Feb 05 21:17:07 It'll update the route on-the-fly, then. Feb 05 21:17:15 Not quite as polished as real turn-by-turn Feb 05 21:17:17 but it's free. Feb 05 21:17:25 You can go to "Route/Download..." and enter in your destination address using current coordinates as your starting location. It'll download driving directions from the net. Feb 05 21:17:34 can't it store that map info, instead of downloading it Feb 05 21:17:37 hi Feb 05 21:17:57 gpx routes and map data are two different things. Feb 05 21:18:02 another l10n question Feb 05 21:18:11 GeneralAntilles, Pal, I can't find neither OS2007HE nor OS2006 at nokia's site Feb 05 21:18:12 Both can either be cached or downloaded on-the-fly. Feb 05 21:18:21 where does maemo keeps dictionary? Feb 05 21:18:38 dererk, buddy, Tak gave you both links above. Feb 05 21:19:51 pufff, you're right Feb 05 21:20:07 GeneralAntilles, I'm partially stupid today :) Feb 05 21:21:05 ROTFL @ "FIASCO" image Feb 05 21:21:28 I don't know in english, but in spanish, "fiasco" means nothing good :P Feb 05 21:22:12 derek: but what it mean in finnish? Feb 05 21:22:23 I still haven't managed to find the expansion of that acronym. Feb 05 21:22:34 hahahaha Feb 05 21:22:46 Hrw, nothing Feb 05 21:23:20 did someone ever tried to add dictionary for other language then provided ones? Feb 05 21:23:24 Am I partially-blind, or the firm of HE seems to be more than 80mb ? Feb 05 21:24:38 <||cw> dererk: fiasco in english is borrow from spanish, roughly the same meaning still Feb 05 21:24:41 is it a problem dererk? Feb 05 21:24:56 ||cw, hehehehe Feb 05 21:25:04 fiasko is also present in Polish Feb 05 21:25:29 Hrw, well, it's about a the same size of a Debian bussiness netinstall image Feb 05 21:25:34 ~30MB of PDFs and ~20MB of audio/video. Feb 05 21:25:38 which it's really a lot Feb 05 21:25:47 GeneralAntilles, puf puf puf puf Feb 05 21:25:53 grrr Feb 05 21:25:57 dererk: and it contain lot of crap Feb 05 21:26:00 Just delete it after it's flashed. Feb 05 21:26:16 like appmanager.. Feb 05 21:26:26 GeneralAntilles, I hope I could :) Feb 05 21:26:30 and think of all the trees Nokia is saving by distributing digital copies of the user manuals. Feb 05 21:26:37 or crappy locale support Feb 05 21:27:02 * dererk 's BW is really crappy Feb 05 21:27:32 nokia is saving trees by giving digital copies, but then asking akamai to burn coal to keep worldwide cache of servers running so we can get them ;) Feb 05 21:27:39 GeneralAntilles, do you think the flushing process it's "dangerous" ? Feb 05 21:27:43 hi Feb 05 21:27:49 flushing? Down the toilet? Feb 05 21:27:53 elo gnuto Feb 05 21:27:54 lol! Feb 05 21:28:00 flashing * :) Feb 05 21:28:02 If so, yes. Feb 05 21:28:08 No, flashing is not dangerous. Feb 05 21:28:11 CORE DUMP! Feb 05 21:28:14 GeneralAntilles, thanks :) Feb 05 21:28:17 I've done it somewhere in the realm of 4-dozen times. Feb 05 21:28:21 Never once had a failure. Feb 05 21:28:28 Cool Feb 05 21:28:40 unless you flash whole fiasco on 10% of battery and no charger Feb 05 21:28:42 I could breath slower Feb 05 21:29:07 re: the flashing process, does the flasher initalisation get replaced with each flash - ie is it technically possible to completely bork 810? Feb 05 21:29:10 Even then, you just charge it and start over. Feb 05 21:30:01 if it doesnt get replaced, what if they had a bug with their "insert usb, switch on and hold down home key when you see usb icon"? Feb 05 21:30:03 The NOLO flasher isn't on the USB-accessible sectors Feb 05 21:30:11 I wonder why "INSTALL" file at Nokia's server says "sudo flasher" Feb 05 21:30:24 Isn't it supposed to be run on the PC ? Feb 05 21:30:26 Some machines will require root permissions to use USB. Feb 05 21:30:34 No. Feb 05 21:30:35 GeneralAntilles, ah! got it Feb 05 21:30:39 like my Debian boxes Feb 05 21:30:42 flasher-3.0 is for Linux. Feb 05 21:30:47 dererk, there is a usb flasher tool, or a windows update wizard Feb 05 21:30:51 Hrw, add yourself to cdrom :P Feb 05 21:30:55 grrr Feb 05 21:31:05 Hrw, add yourself to plugdev Feb 05 21:31:08 windows update is posh and user friendly and will even download new firmware for you Feb 05 21:31:10 dererk: i am in many broups Feb 05 21:31:18 groups Feb 05 21:31:31 ~curse n810 keyboard Feb 05 21:31:32 Yeah, but you can't set R&D flags with the stinky Windows flasher. :P Feb 05 21:31:32 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, n810 keyboard ! Feb 05 21:31:53 lcuk_3, oh, thanks Feb 05 21:31:55 gen, why would i need R&D? i have root Feb 05 21:32:05 r&d should be settable from n810 itself Feb 05 21:32:10 GeneralAntilles, but isn't supposed that I should run it into my pc, connected to the nokia box throw usb cable? Feb 05 21:32:29 * dererk appollogies but what's to be double-checked Feb 05 21:32:34 Turn off watchdogs, turn on the serial port, etc. Feb 05 21:32:38 wants* Feb 05 21:33:04 dererk, is your desktop pc windows or linux? Feb 05 21:33:10 lcdd, Debian Linux Feb 05 21:33:13 general: serialport... they cant put it in worse place.. Feb 05 21:33:35 lcuk_3, * Feb 05 21:33:53 nokia service box needed just to get serial port.. Feb 05 21:34:17 then you need the linux flasher, the windows one will not work for you as you know. (maybe though some kind soul would setup a VMware box with windows on it so you can run the windows flash wizard) Feb 05 21:34:24 NiMH is a farce. Feb 05 21:34:59 Meh, the serial port is for recovering the device during repair. Feb 05 21:35:02 a farce for good or evil? Feb 05 21:35:06 evil. Feb 05 21:35:08 It's in a perfectly fine place for that purpose. Feb 05 21:35:28 the nonusage discharge rate of NiMH is bullshit. they should not be manufactured. Feb 05 21:35:39 but if it borks before you have enabled rd then your are basically screwed right? Feb 05 21:35:47 fysa, buy those new NiMHs Feb 05 21:35:48 general: unless you want do some kernel hacking... Feb 05 21:35:51 I wonder how mucb power is wasted with people recharging NiMH batteries that discharged themselves. Feb 05 21:35:52 * dererk finishing download **hope everything goes ok** :S Feb 05 21:35:52 Hmm.. It's "normal" that the N810 insists that my flat moves at 5-10km/h in different direction, right? Feb 05 21:36:07 lipoly is the future. Feb 05 21:36:10 lol Blafasel mine tells me that Feb 05 21:36:16 i get dizzy looking at it Feb 05 21:36:37 <||cw> Blafasel: given that gps signal is weak indoors, yes Feb 05 21:36:46 sorry, I'm doing my annual wire untangling session and that just came to mind. Feb 05 21:36:54 lipo only has limited discharge count, they get hot and work best from full use to drain cycles Feb 05 21:37:10 dont they? Feb 05 21:37:12 fysa, you want the Sanyo Eneloops. Feb 05 21:37:24 * lcuk_3 has a helicopter which said to treat lipo like that Feb 05 21:37:24 ||cw: 4th floor, old house, bad insulation (right word?).. This is as colse to "outside" as one could get ;) Feb 05 21:37:43 anyone want my Skype promo card? Feb 05 21:37:49 GPS works best LoS. Feb 05 21:37:57 <||cw> old house = good wood Feb 05 21:37:59 3 months of unlimited calls. Feb 05 21:38:07 LoS? Feb 05 21:38:12 fysa, think on the wasted energy of throwing away alkalines all the time. ;) Feb 05 21:38:12 <||cw> wood has water in it Feb 05 21:38:16 Line of sight? Feb 05 21:38:17 Line of Sight Feb 05 21:38:38 * Hrw -> bed Feb 05 21:38:41 Bye Feb 05 21:38:49 you know: people in the real world wouldnt be bothered if gps took time, my missus thought it didnt lock because "it must be busy" :) Feb 05 21:39:23 "it's thinking" Feb 05 21:39:24 <_> Feb 05 21:39:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_self-discharge_NiMH_battery Feb 05 21:39:40 no, as in engaged tone on the phones Feb 05 21:39:44 busy time of day Feb 05 21:39:48 Oh Feb 05 21:39:49 Haha Feb 05 21:40:17 <||cw> to common people gps is magic Feb 05 21:40:23 <||cw> it's amsing that it works at all to them Feb 05 21:40:25 fysa, all the hard-data reviews I've read of them show that they're actually a little better than Sanyo claims. Feb 05 21:40:35 I bought a bunch of them. Feb 05 21:40:38 Work really nicely. Feb 05 21:40:39 nice Feb 05 21:40:40 common people your device must send a signal to the gps sat itself Feb 05 21:40:43 which charger do you use? Feb 05 21:41:02 Some RadioShack slow-charge unit from the 90s. Feb 05 21:41:08 are they good enough for Wii controllers? Feb 05 21:41:26 Yeah, I switched my 4 controllers over. ;) Feb 05 21:41:39 you try the Wii charging station Feb 05 21:41:43 ihave you seen the replacement battery cover/battery unit with a dock for wiimote? Feb 05 21:41:43 the wiimote charging station? Feb 05 21:41:56 yeah Feb 05 21:41:58 Wish Nintendo had seen fit to provide a rechargeable solution like the 360 controllers, though. Feb 05 21:42:18 I've never once had a 3rd-party console product that I was satisfied with. Feb 05 21:42:21 the 360 isn't too far off? they have battery pods and can use AA batteries Feb 05 21:42:55 I do agree though. Feb 05 21:43:06 and rechargeable packs that charge over USB. Feb 05 21:43:16 A first party solution would be nice. I would hate it if they used a proprietary battery, though. Feb 05 21:43:24 * fysa smacks Nokia silly Feb 05 21:43:49 You! Feb 05 21:43:57 USB charging.... Feb 05 21:44:02 I used to hang with the GP2X crowd, so I'm biased against them batteriez Feb 05 21:44:06 360's wired controllers are just USB. Feb 05 21:44:13 you couldnt get enough elecrtons through the tiny usb plug ;) Feb 05 21:44:20 * GeneralAntilles uses a 360 controller on his computer. Feb 05 21:44:31 yeah Feb 05 21:44:35 * lcuk_3 uses a GeneralAntilles on his 360. Feb 05 21:44:39 You guys made me accidentally open my battery cover to my phone :/ Feb 05 21:44:45 hahaha Feb 05 21:46:58 I'm ready for some sort of tesla machine that I can stick in the middle of every room that'll power all the devices in my house. Feb 05 21:47:54 your cat would be like the energizer bunny Feb 05 21:48:05 Think of the plasma! Feb 05 21:48:07 powered by human blood Feb 05 21:48:26 lol Feb 05 21:49:57 Damned BluZ Feb 05 21:50:01 BlueZ* Feb 05 21:52:41 * dererk cursing damn f#cked nokia servers Feb 05 21:54:14 dererk, could you try a different dns server so you get alternative akamai machines to use? Feb 05 21:54:30 lcuk_3, I tryied about 10 Feb 05 21:54:41 (not kidding) Feb 05 21:54:44 did you flush your local cache? Feb 05 21:54:58 (dns cache i mean...) Feb 05 21:55:15 lcuk_3, I didn't, but I used different resolving methods Feb 05 21:55:23 (i'm not root here) Feb 05 21:55:58 is it the flash image you are after? Feb 05 21:56:05 yes Feb 05 21:56:18 I'm downloading it from a terrific slow adsl connection throw ssh Feb 05 21:56:21 which one are you looking for and which locale are you Feb 05 21:56:50 lcuk_3, don't worry, I'm about half on it Feb 05 21:56:52 perhaps someone will know a mirror or at least will give you full filename so you can google Feb 05 21:57:10 lcuk_3, thanks, but really, don't worry Feb 05 21:57:28 I appreciate it Feb 05 21:57:33 im not worried... i got my latest flash via torrent tho - nokia servers piss a lot of people off Feb 05 21:57:42 ohhhhh Feb 05 21:57:56 great to hear it's not just me Feb 05 21:58:39 :) welcome to nokia internet tablet world Feb 05 21:58:56 looooooooool Feb 05 22:00:14 Hopefully the end of our server troubles is near. Feb 05 22:00:53 GeneralAntilles, I don't get it Feb 05 22:01:04 Work is underway to fix the servers. Feb 05 22:01:10 ah Feb 05 22:01:16 great to hear that Feb 05 22:02:58 now, since i have been poking at this for the last hour and can't get it working... Feb 05 22:03:00 Just be glad you weren't here for the initial OS2008 beta release. <_< Feb 05 22:03:14 Remember, remember the 26th of November. . . . Feb 05 22:03:40 could someone try and test a small compile for 810 chinook armel in scratchbox Feb 05 22:03:40 GeneralAntilles, where this problems on that time? Feb 05 22:04:11 tablets-dev, Extras, and Garage were basically unreachable for two weeks. Feb 05 22:04:17 omg Feb 05 22:04:28 nice work Nokia! Feb 05 22:04:34 Feb 05 22:04:39 So thousands of people were trying to get the OS2008 release and mostly couldn't Feb 05 22:04:44 i was speaking to pupnik yesterday and he said https://garage.maemo.org/projects/n770demos/ would be a good base program but i cant get it going Feb 05 22:04:46 those that did couldn't install any software. Feb 05 22:05:03 Yeah, it was fun. Feb 05 22:05:09 GeneralAntilles, it's soooo patetic! Feb 05 22:05:19 i grabbed all the source from svn and have kinda sussed how to compile it, but it wont link :( Feb 05 22:05:19 Definitely Feb 05 22:05:32 The poor maemo guys are way understaffed, underfunded, and undersupported. Feb 05 22:05:37 lcuk_3, :// Feb 05 22:05:56 Yeah! that's so true in opensource community :/ Feb 05 22:06:24 The glacial movement of big corporate entities doesn't help matters, either. Feb 05 22:06:24 and with the excellent work the did/do/will still be doing! Feb 05 22:06:31 it's so blameful... Feb 05 22:06:46 GeneralAntilles, i fully agree Feb 05 22:07:50 lcuk_3: if you copy/paste your errors to something like pastebin.ca I might be able to help Feb 05 22:08:00 ok pup, thx Feb 05 22:10:08 any word on if a OS2008HE for the 770 is underway? Feb 05 22:10:33 It is. Feb 05 22:10:44 http://pastebin.ca/893123 i had to make changes to n770-triangels.c to get it compiling (code bug), but the rest is as i obtained from cvs Feb 05 22:11:04 is there a page on it? Feb 05 22:11:07 it compiled all modules the first time i ran it but failed at same point each time Feb 05 22:11:16 There's an announcement on maemo.org somewhere. Feb 05 22:11:23 okay Feb 05 22:11:25 I'm sure google would turn up something. Feb 05 22:11:36 google SU-18_2007HACKER_4.2007.46-3_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin Feb 05 22:11:43 (it's the latest I think) Feb 05 22:11:44 think a 770 would be nicely recycled into a CAR pc type app Feb 05 22:11:58 ds3, ebook reader and media remote. Feb 05 22:12:10 * dererk sighs... he istill using it as _new_ in .ar Feb 05 22:12:16 nice error lcuk_3 :) never saw that Feb 05 22:12:24 lol Feb 05 22:12:28 great! Feb 05 22:12:43 this buildpp.pl is also strange Feb 05 22:12:48 GeneralAntilles: I want a CarPC anyways Feb 05 22:12:49 15' minutes to target Feb 05 22:12:54 yes, there is no compile/make Feb 05 22:13:10 biggest hurdle for what I want is a reliable USB host mode on the 770 Feb 05 22:13:17 its not a simple little thing, the perl mod compiles whatevers in the subfolders Feb 05 22:13:35 please no! Feb 05 22:13:41 that's also the reason why the 770 is superior to the N800 (lack of a bracket covering it and the location of the jacks is on the bottom Feb 05 22:13:49 * dererk suffered the worse day of the year with perl today Feb 05 22:13:54 all i wanted was a simple base progr with standard build options so i could see how it all went together and start coding rather than faffing Feb 05 22:14:05 Woohoo, USB host on my N810 using the standard cable from Nokia, a USB female/female adapter, a 1GB thumb drive and the poking of a /sys device. Open File Manager: bingo :-) Feb 05 22:14:46 lcuk_3: well as that is pretty non-standard i'd say 'meh' and move on to something else Feb 05 22:14:55 Jaffa: 1G is such small thing to have as a thumb drive! Feb 05 22:15:02 jaffa, its nice isnt it :) tho my keyboard crashes nokia if i press keys from different segments of the board - i think it takes the current too high Feb 05 22:15:04 One from work Feb 05 22:15:43 1G thumb drive don't typically have a good storage:volume ratio compared to say a 16G SDHC card Feb 05 22:16:06 * Jaffa shrugs. It's small. It's free. Feb 05 22:16:48 oh it is the storage:cost ratio here hehe Feb 05 22:17:01 lipoly isn't the future. it has a lower cycle count are typically are more fragile. the future will be the LiIon batteries that use nanowires. Feb 05 22:17:15 a little late in the convo, but I thought I'd put my two cents in. :P Feb 05 22:17:42 you mean the super capacitors :) Feb 05 22:17:49 no. Feb 05 22:17:59 super caps are already here. Feb 05 22:18:22 fuel cell cartridges Feb 05 22:18:23 http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908.html Feb 05 22:18:25 * Jaffa needs to find a cheap place to get a Linksys USB100M in the UK for an Ethernet enabled N810 Feb 05 22:18:55 I like fuel cell. Feb 05 22:19:06 lol Feb 05 22:19:20 now if someone would make a nice little one using ethanol/propanol/methanol Feb 05 22:19:24 Actually, really, really, small internal combustion engines would work for me, too. Feb 05 22:19:31 the real shine for lipo is weight/power Feb 05 22:19:41 all the RC aircraft stuff is moving to it Feb 05 22:19:46 yeah, the weight factor is nice. Feb 05 22:20:31 it'd be nice if they could incorporate nanowires in lipoly. Feb 05 22:20:36 small ICE? ones that generate more heat then the ARM processor it powers? =) Feb 05 22:20:45 Hell yeah! Feb 05 22:20:53 GeneralAntilles, small, like a "small bunch of fire" ? :P Feb 05 22:20:55 Then use that heat to manufacture more power. Feb 05 22:21:03 elb: the problem there is a little 'oops' with charging and you have a big problem Feb 05 22:21:08 tiny steam generators. Feb 05 22:21:30 loool Feb 05 22:21:40 output from new AMD processor: hot coffee Feb 05 22:21:41 developers need to be careful what Section: they use - polluting the app manager with misspelled or stupid sections is bad bad bad Feb 05 22:21:52 yup Feb 05 22:22:02 yet another reason to have gatekeepers Feb 05 22:22:03 We should fit all developers with tasers. Feb 05 22:22:05 THe app manager is bad bad bad? ;) Feb 05 22:22:14 hahah Feb 05 22:22:40 7' to target :D Feb 05 22:22:46 well for me, user/Games is not hard to remember Feb 05 22:22:54 pupnik, hehe Feb 05 22:24:42 ergh, others suggest lowercase user/games :( Feb 05 22:24:49 http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/maemo_4-0_porting_guide.html Feb 05 22:25:19 pew pew Feb 05 22:25:44 good afternoon Feb 05 22:26:03 perrito666, hey! :D Feb 05 22:26:23 dererk: you are everywhere :D Feb 05 22:26:29 Like trash :D Feb 05 22:26:34 ehm, I meant, god :P Feb 05 22:27:10 dererk: you don't happent to know how to suspend a n800 don't you? Feb 05 22:27:33 * pupnik hands perrito666 some twine Feb 05 22:27:36 perrito666, I don't :S Feb 05 22:27:59 perrito666, the watchdog will kill it if you do. Feb 05 22:28:01 flasher v0.8.1 (Jan 5 2007) Feb 05 22:28:01 Suitable USB device not found, waiting Feb 05 22:28:08 grrrrrrrr Feb 05 22:28:16 Is the device on? Feb 05 22:28:23 pupnik: that sounds strongly like tea+wine Feb 05 22:28:23 GeneralAntilles, yes Feb 05 22:28:32 Booted to a desktop? Feb 05 22:28:43 dmesg | grep nokia -> scsi 6:0:0:0: Direct-Access Nokia 770 0308 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 Feb 05 22:28:49 GeneralAntilles, yeas Feb 05 22:28:53 GeneralAntilles, yes * Feb 05 22:28:54 Turn it off. Feb 05 22:28:56 oh Feb 05 22:28:58 ok Feb 05 22:28:59 GeneralAntilles: so I have to boot and shut down this thing each time? Feb 05 22:29:21 perrito666, just lock it and put it in offline mode. Feb 05 22:29:46 perrito666, my quite-used n770 when blank-screening lasts about 12 hours Feb 05 22:29:49 dererk, turn it off, plug it in, make sure flasher is waiting, then turn it on. Feb 05 22:29:57 dererk: ouch Feb 05 22:29:58 perrito666, yours might last even longer :P Feb 05 22:30:26 I mean wow Feb 05 22:30:29 7-12 days idle is normal. Feb 05 22:30:43 assuming no runaway processes and offline mode. Feb 05 22:30:59 1-3-ish days connected to wifi Feb 05 22:31:05 OMG! Feb 05 22:31:09 * perrito666 has symptoms of needing to go out of his office Feb 05 22:31:11 GeneralAntilles: nice Feb 05 22:31:31 GeneralAntilles, no luck either Feb 05 22:31:32 :S Feb 05 22:31:38 Generally speaking, perrito666, standby is kinda pointless for these devices. Feb 05 22:31:38 ah Feb 05 22:31:48 ARM is incredibly power-efficient. Feb 05 22:31:49 GeneralAntilles, great! Feb 05 22:31:56 GeneralAntilles, (did work) Feb 05 22:32:08 ARM is incredibly power-efficient. <-- I see that! Feb 05 22:32:15 They're intended to be left on 24/7. Feb 05 22:32:55 GeneralAntilles: I did know that, but I wasn't sure how power saving would this gadget go by locking it Feb 05 22:32:56 pretty nice Feb 05 22:32:58 i have to give credit to the maemo.org people for the great tutorials Feb 05 22:33:20 in offline mode, the osso-rtcomm/chat app eats CPU trying to find out if the network is up. either that or it's constantly trying to register your accounts. Feb 05 22:33:21 Basically as power-saving as it gets. Feb 05 22:33:33 GeneralAntilles: :) Feb 05 22:33:38 wifi is incredibly efficient, too. Feb 05 22:33:58 agree GeneralAntilles Feb 05 22:34:02 set the device down for a few seconds without stuff running and it's about as idle as it'll get. Feb 05 22:34:08 ever since I put on the new rtcomm package, my batt doesn't last more than two and one-half days. so yesterday I disabled the accounts. batt status was normal with 8 days standby. Feb 05 22:34:31 Redline`, it _is_ a beta release. :P Feb 05 22:34:33 yeah, I agreed too Feb 05 22:34:35 GeneralAntilles: cut me some slack :D my last portable device was a zire31 Feb 05 22:34:35 yeah. Feb 05 22:34:41 It does not even get hot! Feb 05 22:34:41 I know this. :P Feb 05 22:34:51 My statement was more of a warning. :P Feb 05 22:34:55 perrito666, I'm just edumacating. ;) Feb 05 22:35:04 GeneralAntilles: it is good to know Feb 05 22:35:21 I mean, I walked arouned Tokyo using maemo-mapper and BT GPS for 14 hours the other day, and the battery lasted the whole time. Feb 05 22:35:31 I really got lost when I didn't found a "go to sleep" button or link Feb 05 22:35:32 The N810 seems to do much better than the N800. Feb 05 22:35:56 derf: cool Feb 05 22:36:08 derf, probably more of a configuration issue. Feb 05 22:36:09 derf, that's because of the BT GPS that you use on the N800 Feb 05 22:36:22 Redline`: No, I was using the same BT GPS on the N810. Feb 05 22:36:22 whereas, the n810 has it on board. Feb 05 22:36:29 I've yet to get the internal one to work. Feb 05 22:36:35 really? Feb 05 22:36:40 Really. Feb 05 22:36:47 Best I ever got was 4 satellites. Feb 05 22:37:04 derf: I really wanted to go for a 810 but the relation availability/price on .ar is not really nice Feb 05 22:37:14 GeneralAntilles: Possibly... there's less crap installed since I just got it. Feb 05 22:37:36 Great! flashing! Feb 05 22:37:51 GeneralAntilles, Tak, lcuk_3 thanks for all the fish! Feb 05 22:37:58 dererk, STOP QUICK, YOU MADE MY SCREEN GO BLANK Feb 05 22:38:28 lcuk_3, loooooool Feb 05 22:38:31 lcuk_3, hahaha Feb 05 22:38:46 There's not really enough different hardware-wise for a really major difference in battery life to be possible. Feb 05 22:39:07 is it same model battery? Feb 05 22:39:25 No Feb 05 22:39:32 But the capacity really isn't any different. Feb 05 22:39:55 Basically a change in shape. Feb 05 22:40:07 that could make all the difference, its not just capacity, but the way a specific battery handles drain and charge possibly? Feb 05 22:41:41 GeneralAntilles, quick question :) Feb 05 22:41:53 flashing utility says "flash completed" Feb 05 22:42:03 Did you do -R ? Feb 05 22:42:03 but my device is still on "booting screen" Feb 05 22:42:19 GeneralAntilles, crap... INSTALL file didn't said that :S Feb 05 22:42:33 s/crap/damn/ Feb 05 22:42:34 dererk meant: GeneralAntilles, damn... INSTALL file didn't said that :S Feb 05 22:42:38 Just run: flasher-3.0 -R Feb 05 22:42:44 GeneralAntilles, now? Feb 05 22:42:47 -R for restart Feb 05 22:42:48 Yeah Feb 05 22:42:55 GeneralAntilles, :D Feb 05 22:43:09 oh Feb 05 22:43:16 same kernel booting now :S Feb 05 22:44:06 anyone using a class6 sd card as their boot mmc? Feb 05 22:44:18 Yes, Redline`, though not as primary. Feb 05 22:45:08 ok gtg, thanks for your help :D Feb 05 22:45:17 is the bootup/app loading time worth the investment to get a class6? Feb 05 22:45:27 GeneralAntilles, Thanks again Feb 05 22:45:35 Now flashing is completed Feb 05 22:45:37 :D Feb 05 22:45:41 Generally speaking, a 150x SD card is probably faster than a class 6 card Feb 05 22:45:50 but, no, you wont really notice the speed difference booting from SD. Feb 05 22:46:02 SD is just my backup/Debian partitions. Feb 05 22:46:28 see that's my experience, but another co-worker said that his boots up faster with his SD card. Feb 05 22:46:35 I just really didn't see a diff. Feb 05 22:46:51 http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/making_application_packages.html aha there are valid subsections Feb 05 22:47:04 Placebo. Feb 05 22:47:12 heh Feb 05 22:48:23 Oh, nice look&&feel the HE :D Feb 05 22:49:07 Find and install the Plankton theme. Feb 05 22:51:46 default is a dark blue&&black Feb 05 22:51:46 ls -1 /scratchbox/...../projects |wc -l Feb 05 22:51:48 is that? Feb 05 22:51:48 OS2008 has been the only ITOS release so far to not come with an horrifyingly ugly default theme selection. Feb 05 22:51:48 178 Feb 05 22:52:03 ohhhhh, I love this new version! Feb 05 22:52:23 * dererk is now happy ^.^ Feb 05 22:52:30 Default on OS2007 is "Adria" Feb 05 22:52:33 and it's ugly. :P Feb 05 22:52:51 let me check which am i Feb 05 22:52:58 If it's blue and black Feb 05 22:53:00 oh Feb 05 22:53:00 it's Adria. Feb 05 22:53:02 yeas, Adria Feb 05 22:53:18 Plankton: http://mg.pov.lt/osso-xterm-buttons1.png Feb 05 22:53:20 GeneralAntilles, I'll follow your advice Feb 05 22:53:29 checking Feb 05 22:53:37 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/12pt-hildon-theme-plankton/ Feb 05 22:53:54 does anyone know how to persuade maemo mapper to use the built in GPS on the N810? Feb 05 22:53:55 There's also a 14pt for the wimpy blind folks. Feb 05 22:53:58 I _love_ this new feature of "darking" screen Feb 05 22:54:01 and a regular 18pt for the really blind folks. Feb 05 22:54:08 steel, Bluetooth Feb 05 22:54:10 no MAC. Feb 05 22:54:37 jajaja Feb 05 22:54:44 s/j/h/g Feb 05 22:54:44 dererk meant: hahaha Feb 05 22:54:50 thanks infobot Feb 05 22:55:03 18pt: http://tigert.1g.fi/blog-files/n800-theme/ Feb 05 22:55:03 compared to most user generated themes, the nokia themes are all good Feb 05 22:55:13 pupnik, lies. :P Feb 05 22:55:24 pupnik, ehmmm, partially :P Feb 05 22:55:29 default ones are scaring :P Feb 05 22:55:46 Plankton and the Nuvo series were both much better than the defaults. Feb 05 22:55:48 GeneralAntilles: working now, many thanks Feb 05 22:55:48 oh, I died :) Feb 05 22:55:55 hardware keyboard control Feb 05 22:56:02 i died of happiness Feb 05 22:56:03 :) Feb 05 22:56:20 Nokia themes don't break the tablet. Nuvo does. Feb 05 22:56:22 I used Nuvo, good one indeed Feb 05 22:56:35 But when chatting, colors dark the text Feb 05 22:56:39 Otherwise i think it's great Feb 05 22:56:42 What in the world did Nuvo break? Feb 05 22:56:42 unless on my old firm Feb 05 22:56:51 i am surprised how well os2008 works with fingers (instead of a stylus) Feb 05 22:57:12 GeneralAntilles, in my case (with the old firm), it make chatting text unreadable Feb 05 22:57:12 a long list of things GeneralAntilles. I don't have names for all the regions. Icons and bootscreen also. Feb 05 22:57:35 Huh Feb 05 22:57:39 I used Nuvo for a long time. Feb 05 22:57:41 konttori will be receiving screenshots Feb 05 22:57:42 Never had any problem. Feb 05 22:58:01 that's the nature of things. problems don't always appear consistently Feb 05 22:58:04 Plankton looks better anyway. Feb 05 22:58:20 Which is the default "lock code" now on the latest HE firm? Feb 05 22:58:22 nuvoblack is my favorite. no more ugly white border around xterm Feb 05 22:58:33 12345 Feb 05 22:58:46 That doesn't change with firmware flashes, though. Feb 05 22:58:50 GeneralAntilles, Incorrect :S Feb 05 22:58:52 oh Feb 05 22:58:54 thanks for that tip Feb 05 22:58:55 :) Feb 05 22:59:18 yeap they don't Feb 05 22:59:19 XD Feb 05 22:59:51 oh men, I'm exploting of happiness with this new release :D Feb 05 22:59:58 (not literarly :) ) Feb 05 23:00:15 GeneralAntilles, again, many thanks pal Feb 05 23:00:28 Sure. Feb 05 23:01:20 * elb laughs at all this talk about font sizes, as if the tablet's fonts aren't completely assed beyond all usefulness Feb 05 23:01:45 I have no idea what it is about people that they cannot get it through their heads that font sizes MEAN something, and X server DPIs MEAN something Feb 05 23:01:58 Assed? Feb 05 23:02:15 yes -- an 18pt font on the tablet should, by all rights, be exactly 18pt high Feb 05 23:02:20 Oh, right. Feb 05 23:02:22 That. :P Feb 05 23:02:25 but some genius decided to totally lie about the display DPI Feb 05 23:02:43 I would blame Nokia, but ... X.org no longer properly honors DisplaySize in recent versions Feb 05 23:02:44 Probably easier than actually fixing things to make it work right. Feb 05 23:02:55 so the disease is not theirs alone Feb 05 23:03:14 no, it's Really Easy to get right -- just tell the X display what its dot pitch *really is*, and pango gets it right Feb 05 23:03:43 * GeneralAntilles is assuming there's a logical reason they choose not to do it that way. Feb 05 23:03:44 then if you set your font to "9pt" or whatever on every machine yo uhave ... it's the same physical size on the screen, on every machine you have Feb 05 23:03:54 general ignorance and stupidity, I suspect Feb 05 23:04:00 as with most other recent X11 blunders Feb 05 23:04:11 elb, Xomap has -dpi 96 passed to it :P Feb 05 23:04:32 johnx: I saw that it does in scratchbox ... does it on the tablet, as well? Feb 05 23:04:33 steel, GPSd was being used to allow onboard GPS use with maemo-mapper. but according to http://www.latheofdreams.com/2007/12/n810-travelling-with-the-car-m.html 2.2 automagically start it (provided it's installed). Feb 05 23:04:40 elb, yup :D Feb 05 23:04:43 lame Feb 05 23:04:49 so it IS nokia stupidity, and not the X server Feb 05 23:05:14 traditionally the XUL parts of firefox do not cope well with dpi's that are far away from 96 Feb 05 23:05:48 I think the rendering engine part gets it right...so I'm kind of at a loss to explain it Feb 05 23:06:21 If only everything were clear and logical. Feb 05 23:06:39 I'd settle for a couple things being clear and logical Feb 05 23:06:54 that's unfortunate ... because it's closer to 220x202 DPI Feb 05 23:07:05 yeah Feb 05 23:07:09 based on my quick calculations with a scale Feb 05 23:07:19 if it reported 200dpi, fonts would be Pretty Darn Close to correct Feb 05 23:07:33 225dpi for N800 Feb 05 23:07:39 Little higher for N810, I think. Feb 05 23:07:46 I think the displays are identical Feb 05 23:07:57 N810's is a little smaller, right? Feb 05 23:08:00 I just measured with a scale and di the math (on my n810) and got the above numbers Feb 05 23:08:12 johnx: I was under the impression that the *housing* is smaller, but the display is identical Feb 05 23:08:18 but I've never held an n800, so I don't know Feb 05 23:08:27 N810 display is a bit smaller than 770 at least Feb 05 23:08:28 I don't know either Feb 05 23:09:04 I think the display is smaller. Feb 05 23:09:07 But I don't actually know. Feb 05 23:09:37 * pupnik goes to redo some horrible sound effects Feb 05 23:09:40 There's not a lot of room around the edge of the N800's LCD for a 4.15" to 4.1" change. Feb 05 23:09:46 ahh a more precise calculation gives me 226.5x227.5 Feb 05 23:10:12 yeah...I would assume square pixels given that it's an LCD Feb 05 23:10:13 often it looks as if font hinting only works properly at 96 dpi Feb 05 23:10:21 and the actual *pixel surface* size I measure at 4 34/64 x 2 7/64 Feb 05 23:10:36 sorry, 3 34/64 Feb 05 23:10:37 so that 90 or 98 dpi, while correct, look ugly Feb 05 23:11:12 with a diagonal of 4 7/64 Feb 05 23:11:16 I blame windows for the ridiculous DPI situation... Feb 05 23:11:42 johnx: yes, the difference from square is quite possibly from parallax and my measurement accuracy Feb 05 23:12:53 Windows is such a wonderfully convenient scapegoat. Feb 05 23:13:22 and yet, it really has done so much damage Feb 05 23:13:34 How so? Feb 05 23:13:40 at one time, macs actually *had* 72dpi screens, giving them 1pt = 1px Feb 05 23:13:59 jeff1f: it's Really Really Dumb about its display characteristics Feb 05 23:14:22 . . . because most everything is actually its fault. ;) Feb 05 23:14:24 going back to people having monitors for which they had no idea what numbers to enter ... so Microsoft started just making crap up Feb 05 23:14:42 GeneralAntilles, IIRC the whole 96dpi thing actually originated in Windows... Feb 05 23:15:11 to be fair, even modern displays mostly lie about their physical size in their probing craps Feb 05 23:15:23 how modern? Feb 05 23:15:26 * elb ponders fixing his Xomap invocation to see how badly it breaks Feb 05 23:15:42 Do it. Feb 05 23:15:42 Everything I've had for the last several years has worked just fine Feb 05 23:15:44 johnx: well ... find your newest display, fireup X11, and look at what the display tells it, and you tell me ;-) Feb 05 23:16:00 elb, alright. I'm sitting at it right now. :) Feb 05 23:16:16 it's my experience that they're often off by several cm or more Feb 05 23:16:17 * johnx finds tape measure... Feb 05 23:16:24 (X11 reports in mm) Feb 05 23:16:39 yes, that's right -- it reports display size in mm and dot pitch in DPI Feb 05 23:16:46 Go Metrics Go! Feb 05 23:17:02 Do you think using virtual paging to memory card is valuable? Feb 05 23:17:26 correct down to the mm :P Feb 05 23:17:31 johnx: nice! Feb 05 23:17:34 who made it? Feb 05 23:17:41 elb, Benq Feb 05 23:17:52 but it's someone elses actual LCD panel I'm sure... Feb 05 23:18:23 huh, DISPLAY_DPI is in /etc/osso-af-init/x-server.defs Feb 05 23:18:31 dererk, yes, but remember that flash memory (aka SD cards) have a limited number of write cycles... Feb 05 23:18:43 uhm, right Feb 05 23:18:49 the internal card shouldn't, right? Feb 05 23:18:53 ITOS's swappiness is quite low by default. Feb 05 23:18:59 i didn't took that into account Feb 05 23:19:00 because it's NOR and not NAND or whichever? Feb 05 23:19:12 770 in this case. Feb 05 23:19:17 oh Feb 05 23:19:22 yeah, I was thinking n810 Feb 05 23:19:25 GeneralAntilles, you're right Feb 05 23:19:50 haha these fonts are HUGE Feb 05 23:19:57 dererk, with the amount of swapping that ITOS does, it's incredibly unlikely that you'll wear out a flash card before the end of its useful lifetime. Feb 05 23:20:36 yes, you're right Feb 05 23:20:50 I forgot it's quite slow at I/O'ing Feb 05 23:22:12 yeah, boy, this messes EVERYTHING up Feb 05 23:22:25 elb, sad :( Feb 05 23:22:37 a fixed theme would help Feb 05 23:22:47 but inter-line spacing seems to be incorrect, as well Feb 05 23:23:35 i want better fonts for os2008 xterm Feb 05 23:23:46 that courier-like one is not so good Feb 05 23:24:45 Terminus Feb 05 23:25:06 I'd like to have Monaco 9, but I can't figure out how to turn off anti-aliasing for it. Feb 05 23:28:10 elb: Screenshots? For fun? Feb 05 23:31:35 evening Feb 05 23:31:53 correct me if im wrong, but can it be skype for the N8x0 doesnt support video ? Feb 05 23:31:59 that* Feb 05 23:32:11 Duh Feb 05 23:32:17 Gizmo for video. Feb 05 23:32:33 gizmo does skype ? Feb 05 23:32:38 No Feb 05 23:32:42 lol k Feb 05 23:32:45 But Skype is crappy and proprietary anyway. Feb 05 23:32:50 amsn does it Feb 05 23:33:11 i agree Feb 05 23:33:22 but me and my brother wanted to test it Feb 05 23:33:31 he lives in Germany Feb 05 23:34:16 Blafasel: change /etc/osso-af-init/x-server.defs to say DISPLAY_DPI=225, reboot, and see for yourself Feb 05 23:42:08 LinuxCode: Why don't you go for Gizmo then? Feb 05 23:42:15 elb: Will try Feb 05 23:42:37 Blafasel, what does gizmo support ? Feb 05 23:42:47 Blafasel, mainly because my brother knows skype Feb 05 23:42:48 SIP/Video Feb 05 23:42:50 hes on a mac Feb 05 23:42:53 ahh Feb 05 23:42:56 interesting Feb 05 23:43:02 is it p2p ? Feb 05 23:43:25 No, but your brother is out of luck for video support (Mac) for now. Feb 05 23:43:31 k Feb 05 23:43:32 Give it 2 months. Feb 05 23:43:49 well we were more curious really Feb 05 23:43:57 see how the N810 handles it ;-} Feb 05 23:43:59 Hello Feb 05 23:44:01 LinuxCode: Works quite well, though Feb 05 23:44:07 eveing Tama^2 Feb 05 23:44:11 Blafasel, sweet Feb 05 23:44:18 Ciao LinuxCode Feb 05 23:44:20 Gizmo is exactly like Skype, except open. Feb 05 23:44:29 GeneralAntilles, I gathered that Feb 05 23:44:29 So you can use it entirely with rtcomm Feb 05 23:44:31 I prefer sip Feb 05 23:44:39 No need for a bloaty 3rd party client. Feb 05 23:45:09 I prefer open standards ..which sip is Feb 05 23:45:24 Gizmo is SIP. Feb 05 23:45:27 and Jabber. Feb 05 23:45:31 What's up with a ekiga port, btw_ Feb 05 23:45:34 Gizmo didn;t use to have encryption, does it now? Feb 05 23:45:46 why would Gizmo use SIP? Feb 05 23:45:56 (I'm not saying it doesn't; I just don't see why) Feb 05 23:46:04 Why not? Feb 05 23:46:11 So it can work with whatever client you want to use it with? Feb 05 23:46:21 I thought it used jabber for its session establishment Feb 05 23:46:48 jabber and SIP are really serving the same purpose Feb 05 23:46:58 Nah Feb 05 23:46:59 Eh, I dunno. Feb 05 23:47:01 It works. Feb 05 23:47:18 They use Jabber for the IM stuff. Yes, SIP can support that as well Feb 05 23:47:55 At least that's what I understood so far. Feb 05 23:47:56 that's not really relevant, here Feb 05 23:48:14 I thought Gizmo used jabber for presence and session establishment Feb 05 23:48:58 Like gtalk, just replacing jingle with ? Feb 05 23:50:12 looks like it doesn't, its basic signaling is SIP Feb 05 23:50:45 actually, I can't tell, I'm seeing both Feb 05 23:50:48 maybe it really does use both Feb 05 23:50:51 which is ... interesting Feb 05 23:52:11 Well, imo SIP is better supported in all those legacy voip clients, jabber the better choice for im (looking at miranda, sim, pidgin, trillian, kopete whatever) Feb 05 23:54:04 you can use sip with rtcomm Feb 05 23:54:12 integrates with maemo Feb 06 00:03:16 any canola devs/users around? Feb 06 00:05:11 canola2 installed fine on my n770 but it wont start Feb 06 00:08:09 If two people are using gtalk accounts, can they video chat with two different tablets? Feb 06 00:09:32 I didn't think video chat was supported in any of the tablets gtalk clients Feb 06 00:10:28 oh, just jabber? Feb 06 00:11:37 Does anyone here know about the project where someone here was making a maemo youtube browser that didn't use the standard web browser/flash? Feb 06 00:12:26 jeff1f: nm, ignore me it seems gtalk has video support as well Feb 06 00:12:30 (not uktube) Feb 06 00:12:51 Hmpf. Tried installing rtcomm: Red Pill mode, d/l & install the installer, run it - nothing happens. Program manager starts and just spins like hell (doesn't react to anything, only flashes "Already working"). Rebooting the device and trying to disable red pill mode: Same error.. Is that a known problem? Feb 06 00:21:41 Hello people! Feb 06 00:21:49 if there are any Feb 06 00:21:57 no people here. Feb 06 00:22:01 we're all bots :P Feb 06 00:22:01 heh Feb 06 00:22:08 oh noes! Feb 06 00:22:22 Well I've got some issues with my N810 Feb 06 00:22:31 the GPS wont lock on any satellites Feb 06 00:22:40 take it outside, and give it plenty of time Feb 06 00:22:56 so it's only going to work outside? Feb 06 00:23:05 GPS units generally only work outside, yes Feb 06 00:23:11 in a window, if you're lucky Feb 06 00:23:33 hmm, the Garmin Nüvi i tried worked fine at work Feb 06 00:23:35 inside Feb 06 00:23:48 your n810 might work in that specific location, too, then Feb 06 00:23:57 GPS units typically do not work well or reliably indoors Feb 06 00:23:58 though it didnt Feb 06 00:24:04 oh I see Feb 06 00:24:21 well I'll try that in the morning, or when I wake up that is Feb 06 00:24:34 (handheld-type units, as the n810 is, don't exactly have fantastic antennae) Feb 06 00:24:52 uhm, also some people think that a bug in some of the GPS software on the N810 might be causing slow lock-on times Feb 06 00:25:08 but I don't know if that's confirmed yet... Feb 06 00:25:09 yeah, that was the "give it plenty of time" part Feb 06 00:25:18 *I* don't have that problem, but most people seem to Feb 06 00:25:22 yeah I'm on the 1.0-25 leap year gpsd package Feb 06 00:25:28 ah Feb 06 00:25:36 it should resolve itself in 5 or so minutes either way Feb 06 00:25:37 i'm amazed that gps receiver modules are so small now Feb 06 00:25:49 after the unit decides to totally ignore what gpsd is telling it ;-) Feb 06 00:26:12 Ostebaronen, well in that case just give it plenty of time for the first lock and also realize that the GPS chipset in the N810 is kind of lowend Feb 06 00:26:29 and don't move it around while getting a lock, let it sit. Feb 06 00:26:52 I've not noticed that mattering for either my 810 or my Garmin Feb 06 00:27:08 every 810 lock I've made has been in the car Feb 06 00:27:09 okay, well I might buy some bluetooth gps for it if im going to need it Feb 06 00:27:33 in any situation where you would realistically need a GPS, it's going to work fine Feb 06 00:27:39 if you're in a building, you probably know where you are ;-) Feb 06 00:27:47 haha yeah Feb 06 00:27:53 i've walked from my house to the supermarket (16 minutes) holding the n810 in front of me without getting a lock Feb 06 00:27:54 that is true Feb 06 00:27:57 and if you don't, you probably don't have globally oriented maps against which to compare your GPS position Feb 06 00:28:04 pupnik: something is wrong there, then Feb 06 00:28:14 pupnik: are you between high-rise buildings? Feb 06 00:28:46 walking through a typical german town. Feb 06 00:29:01 unfortunately, I've never been to Germany, so that means little to me ;-) Feb 06 00:29:01 so I guess no Feb 06 00:29:15 pupnik: is the supermarket located in a universe with noneuclidean geometry? Feb 06 00:29:26 if its a town and not a city there isnt many hi-rise buildings Feb 06 00:29:30 arrent* Feb 06 00:29:42 in Russia I had some trouble getting a lock in some situations (on my Garmin) moving around downtown, because satellites were flashing in and out of view due to building blockage Feb 06 00:29:43 I've been to germany serveral times :P Feb 06 00:29:45 which seemed to confuse it Feb 06 00:30:02 elb oh I see Feb 06 00:30:06 Tak, i've been spending the evening packaging because of you Feb 06 00:30:29 I could watch the satellites come and go on the monitor page, but they never turned from gray ("I know it's there") to black ("I have a lock") Feb 06 00:30:41 I told you I wasn't flaming you... Feb 06 00:30:44 every half hour or so i get pissed and have to do something else though Feb 06 00:31:00 you're drinking too quickly Feb 06 00:31:09 once it has a lock and an updated almanac, it doesn't let go, though :-) Feb 06 00:31:41 It'll go faster once i get more used to it Feb 06 00:31:45 Oh well recieved the N810 yesterday, and I'm quite happy with it... though that PhoneLink program freaked out on me once and sent 10 sms messages via my phone, that was fun Feb 06 00:31:48 X-D Feb 06 00:32:15 what other portable devices (non-phone) have you owned/used Ostebaronen ? Feb 06 00:33:00 pupnik: a Nintendo DS Lite and a Toshiba 730 something PDA Feb 06 00:33:09 heh Feb 06 00:33:29 I tried my friends N800 once Feb 06 00:33:35 I was quite impressed Feb 06 00:33:49 so I decided to get a N810 Feb 06 00:33:58 Good choice :) Feb 06 00:34:04 just because of the keyboard Feb 06 00:34:17 and because of the small footprint Feb 06 00:34:22 I find a lot of tablets get sold because of word-of-mouth. The retail presence and advertising is quite minimal. Feb 06 00:34:25 Yep Feb 06 00:34:52 Ostebaronen, same Feb 06 00:34:57 I looked at the N800 Feb 06 00:35:04 only nice thing was the camera Feb 06 00:35:12 180 degrees turnable Feb 06 00:35:15 there is a cam on the N800? Feb 06 00:35:29 I didn't notice Feb 06 00:35:29 X-D Feb 06 00:35:30 yeah, it pops out the side Feb 06 00:35:39 and twists 180 degrees Feb 06 00:35:44 but it ... kinda sucks Feb 06 00:35:50 a lot Feb 06 00:35:56 like the n810 camera Feb 06 00:35:58 in fact Feb 06 00:36:15 which, at the very least, needs some serious white balancing Feb 06 00:36:21 johnx, yep Feb 06 00:36:28 the n810 camera is fixed no? Feb 06 00:36:28 I agree Feb 06 00:36:31 it might break Feb 06 00:36:34 b0unc3: hah Feb 06 00:36:35 I don't think I'll ever use the webcam in my N810 Feb 06 00:36:43 b0unc3, yes Feb 06 00:36:43 if this is "fixed", I'd hate to see the n800 Feb 06 00:36:46 it's not what i bought it for Feb 06 00:37:04 elb, it also needs a better lens, sensor and software :) Feb 06 00:37:10 johnx: haha yeah Feb 06 00:37:16 elb, fixed as in "doesn't move" Feb 06 00:37:20 sensor for sure, that thing is noisy as hell Feb 06 00:37:25 not fixed as in "it used to be worse" Feb 06 00:37:31 oh, yeah, it's fixed in that sense Feb 06 00:38:16 Ostebaronen, dont lie! Feb 06 00:38:23 I need to ask this, how do i move programs in the menu from one category to the other? Feb 06 00:38:38 http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=cam_whore Feb 06 00:38:41 i seen your site Feb 06 00:39:10 Ostebaronen, control panel > personalization > navigation > menu (?) Feb 06 00:39:18 Ostebaronen: throught the control panel Feb 06 00:39:18 Ostebaronen: in control panel | panels Feb 06 00:39:21 click "Organize" Feb 06 00:39:23 s/menu/panel/g Feb 06 00:39:23 johnx meant: Ostebaronen, control panel > personalization > navigation > panel (?) Feb 06 00:39:41 eh, what elb said... Feb 06 00:40:05 Ahh thanks! Feb 06 00:40:42 I made my menus about 100% more useful, there Feb 06 00:41:47 I need to redo mine, with the goal of not having to scroll to reach anything I actually use... Feb 06 00:41:53 ahh thanks Feb 06 00:42:02 by moving the crap that you can't get rid of on the *main* screen to less prominent places, and renaming/reorganizing Internet and ... whatever the third one was ... to more appropriate topics Feb 06 00:42:11 johnx: that's exactly what I did Feb 06 00:42:49 I did it once, then reflashed :/ Feb 06 00:42:59 it doesn't back that up? Feb 06 00:44:08 I did it in OS2007 and didn't restore my backup Feb 06 00:44:26 ahh Feb 06 00:45:58 hmm gotta think up some new folder names in the menu Feb 06 00:46:06 and organize a little Feb 06 00:47:37 I went with 'Information' and 'Media', if that's helpful at all Feb 06 00:47:44 I struggled to come up with appropriate categories Feb 06 00:48:38 ah, information would be a good category Feb 06 00:49:21 i have Internet, Multimedia, Tools, Office, Settings, Games (though this should be under multimedia) and Other Feb 06 00:49:23 yeah, I put fbreader, maemopad+, GPE calendar, the PDF reader, etc. there Feb 06 00:49:54 that's one more than fits on the first screen Feb 06 00:49:58 which I tried to avoid Feb 06 00:50:06 I think I switched "Utilities" and "Settings" to "System" and "Tools" Feb 06 00:50:08 maybe... someone can share the modified menu file.... Feb 06 00:50:22 then I moved filemanager, xterm and some other stuff to system Feb 06 00:54:48 I wish you could organise the contacts menu Feb 06 00:55:03 or just remove it entirely Feb 06 00:55:04 ;-) Feb 06 00:55:20 yeah Feb 06 00:55:42 for stuff in the main menu I settled on an "unused" category and put it at the bottom... Feb 06 00:56:38 where do you set password for the device? Feb 06 00:56:58 oh there Feb 06 00:57:01 nevermind Feb 06 00:58:05 guys, there is a vncviewer port for OS2008 ? Feb 06 00:58:23 yeah i tink i saw one in the applications manager Feb 06 00:58:30 or somewhere on the maemo site Feb 06 00:59:57 yep... found it Feb 06 01:01:15 oh well going to sleep Feb 06 01:01:29 talk to you later, and thanks for the help so far Feb 06 01:01:39 probably going to ask some questions tomorrow :> Feb 06 01:01:47 sure Feb 06 01:01:51 'night Feb 06 01:02:02 yeah good night Feb 06 01:11:39 anybody want to code a mouse frontend for dosbox? Feb 06 01:17:01 1 FPS in TES: Arena :) Feb 06 01:23:13 mouse (touchscreen) support in dosbox would be really nice Feb 06 01:24:09 has anyone ever used pocketdos? they claim that they have a solution - question is how practical it is and how it's done ;) Feb 06 01:24:48 i've some ideas but most sound like a big hack :/ Feb 06 01:26:21 yes i have the sources for that stuff Feb 06 01:26:56 solution would be a relative (drag), like a touchpad movement, with onscreen buttons for l/r Feb 06 01:27:24 touchpad whould suck :/ Feb 06 01:27:37 there has to be a way to calibrate the screen for absolute clicks ,) Feb 06 01:27:38 btw j0tt your sdl N810 keyboard hack seems to work on everything i've tried so far Feb 06 01:28:03 no you can't do that with dosbox. the mouse driver uses relative movement, and there's no API for absolute screen position Feb 06 01:28:24 for pure dos games, that is Feb 06 01:28:27 you can.. but it's not that trivial (and would need calibration for every game) Feb 06 01:29:01 basically my idea was, to calibrate the mouse based on positions the user sets .. Feb 06 01:29:38 that is clever Feb 06 01:29:39 like, putting a calibration overlay (4-5 crosses) where the user has to move the mouse to Feb 06 01:29:53 (the dosbox mouse) Feb 06 01:30:13 then you can derive the relative movement from the absolute positions Feb 06 01:30:29 then you would need a dpad-style interface just to do the calibration Feb 06 01:30:54 to generate the relative movement Feb 06 01:31:00 s/dpad/touchpad/ Feb 06 01:31:11 yeah something like that.. Feb 06 01:31:33 very clever though. that could possibly work Feb 06 01:31:34 since the dosbox window/view doesn't fill whole screen you could leave some space for other things.. like button presses Feb 06 01:31:36 (though even with the current interface it would be possible to get the pointer to a given point with some effort) Feb 06 01:32:14 i find games with which i can not move the mouse to certain positions with current interface Feb 06 01:34:36 as an alternative, the hardware dpad could be used during calibration to move the DOS mouse to be under the calibration point Feb 06 01:35:46 hmm possibly i suppose you still need some reference relative data Feb 06 01:36:08 (you could also track this with the dpad i suppose) Feb 06 01:37:20 it doesn't matter where the calibration mouse-input comes from. dosbox just has to learn "how much 'rightmouse' do i need to get from left side of screen to right side of screen for this game" Feb 06 01:37:32 yeah Feb 06 01:37:43 hmm i wonder how hard this would be to implement Feb 06 01:38:06 best idea i've heard in days! Feb 06 01:38:28 assuming that games are deterministic in how they treat the relative mouse data Feb 06 01:38:38 i suppose so.. Feb 06 01:38:39 if they poll it and ignore some movement, it can't be calibrated Feb 06 01:38:57 there also has to be a "quick calibrate" function for setting the current pointer location Feb 06 01:39:16 (like after cut-scenes the pointer might be placed in the center) Feb 06 01:39:25 right! Feb 06 01:41:19 re. exult: have you found it difficult to reliably click on NPCs/Actors to initiate talking dialogue Feb 06 01:41:22 ? Feb 06 01:41:50 not really..well a double-click seems to be a bit hard sometimes Feb 06 01:44:16 yes Feb 06 01:44:23 is the pathfinding 'off' by default? Feb 06 01:44:35 i seem to have some primitive pathfinding giong here Feb 06 01:45:09 clicking behind a wall does not create a path, i have to 'lead' the party Feb 06 01:45:14 hmm not sure.. Feb 06 01:45:45 they even get stuck behind doors and tables Feb 06 01:46:00 hehe stupid folks :) Feb 06 01:47:45 dijkstra would turn in his grave :P Feb 06 01:49:45 ok we have to increase threshold for x/y offset under which double click is detected Feb 06 01:52:29 found it Feb 06 01:55:45 it was set to 1 pixel offset (!) Feb 06 01:55:55 pupnik, I made the latest news at choplair. --> http://choplair.org/?en/Main_page Feb 06 01:56:47 drinks on me. Feb 06 01:57:00 nice Feb 06 01:57:16 you stuck it out with the hildonization then? Feb 06 01:57:34 manage to get 1 app done. Feb 06 01:57:49 mtpaint is another story.... Feb 06 01:59:26 yeah lots of work there Feb 06 02:01:31 <- sleep Feb 06 02:01:43 night. Feb 06 02:01:48 'night pupnik Feb 06 02:03:04 what is the largest usable sdcard size in the n800? Feb 06 02:03:42 The N800 supports all SDHC cards, so as large as you can find Feb 06 02:03:50 people have tested various 16GB cards Feb 06 02:03:54 sweet Feb 06 02:04:08 the n810 does up to 8gb, or is that 8gb is the largest you can find? Feb 06 02:04:33 well, I think 8GB is the largest microSDHC card you can find right now Feb 06 02:05:04 but Nokia's site has some thing like "supports up to 8GB SDHC cards" left over from when 8GB was the biggest thing out there Feb 06 02:05:09 it confuses a lot of people Feb 06 02:05:12 ah Feb 06 02:09:20 john so it could support 16GB + ? Feb 06 02:09:27 I know sdhc can do 2048 Feb 06 02:09:35 but could the N810 handle that Feb 06 02:09:41 ? Feb 06 02:09:54 there's no reason to think that any card that complies with the microSDHC, miniSDHC and/or SDHC specs wont' work in either machine Feb 06 02:10:06 k Feb 06 02:20:20 ue Feb 06 02:20:22 err Feb 06 02:20:23 true Feb 06 02:20:38 unfortunately sd cards have major quirks Feb 06 02:21:50 well yeah, but there's no reason to think that an (eventually available) 32GB SDHC card from a major vendor will be *less* compatible than an 8GB card from a no-name brand Feb 06 02:21:51 yes they are very likely to work but there may be unpleasant sideeffect with some combination of driver/controller/card Feb 06 02:22:18 sure, it makes sense to assume they will work ok Feb 06 02:22:42 I got 2x16Gb and they work Feb 06 02:26:08 wow, there's nothing like having someone release the package you need, days before you need it :D Feb 06 02:58:33 jott, did you ever figure out the keymap issue in Debian? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 06 02:59:57 2008