**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 09 02:59:57 2008
Feb 09 03:57:37 <GeneralAntilles> I REALLY wish I could turn off the stupid buddy icons in Speed Contacts.
Feb 09 03:57:40 <GeneralAntilles> What a waste of real estate.
Feb 09 03:58:45 <elb> do they make the entries larger than a usual finger-menu entry?
Feb 09 04:01:06 <K-Fox> is it possible to connect tv-out cable with n800?
Feb 09 04:08:20 <GeneralAntilles> They're much larger than they were before rtcomm.
Feb 09 04:08:38 <GeneralAntilles> I could fit around 12 contacts then
Feb 09 04:08:42 <GeneralAntilles> only about 4 now
Feb 09 04:08:52 <GeneralAntilles> K-Fox, short answer is yes
Feb 09 04:08:58 <GeneralAntilles> long answer is that it's really hard.
Feb 09 04:09:37 <Tama^2> O>o
Feb 09 04:09:43 <Tama^2> wh0t?
Feb 09 04:09:58 <Tama^2> GeneralAntilles: it's not advertised anywhere, are you sure?
Feb 09 04:10:21 <GeneralAntilles> Two options: USB host, or getting out the soldering iron. ;)
Feb 09 04:10:21 <fysa> yes.
Feb 09 04:10:29 <fysa> USB video out.
Feb 09 04:10:44 <fysa> now just need a mini projector..
Feb 09 04:10:45 <K-Fox> haha really hard
Feb 09 04:11:06 <Tama^2> I see
Feb 09 04:15:07 <fysa> someone could make a deb though
Feb 09 04:22:05 <elb> GeneralAntilles: interesting
Feb 09 04:22:23 <elb> GeneralAntilles: buddy icons are *very* useful for rapid discrimination -- but I would think finger-menu-entry size was plenty large
Feb 09 04:23:07 <GeneralAntilles> I'd rather be able to get to all my important contacts quickly than be able to quickly differentiate between 4 of them. <_<
Feb 09 04:23:25 <GeneralAntilles> Finger-menu size is way too large.
Feb 09 04:32:54 <Tama^2> I dream of an single page, smooth finger scrolling application menu
Feb 09 04:34:15 <GeneralAntilles> I don't.
Feb 09 04:34:19 <GeneralAntilles> Folders work fine
Feb 09 04:34:27 <GeneralAntilles> if Nokia would just let us have subfolders
Feb 09 04:34:36 <GeneralAntilles> Heck, I'd be happy with one more line.
Feb 09 04:35:35 <Navi> :o
Feb 09 04:35:56 <Tama^2> why GeneralAntilles ?
Feb 09 04:36:39 <Tama^2> by having scrolling icons on a grid layout
Feb 09 04:36:43 <GeneralAntilles> Because flicking up and down and up and down through a giant menu doesn't appeal to me.
Feb 09 04:36:45 <Tama^2> you can quickly look for apps
Feb 09 04:36:51 <Tama^2> and have many more on a page
Feb 09 04:37:56 <GeneralAntilles> Folders mean I know where things are.
Feb 09 04:40:18 <Tama^2> and headings for groups of icons will do the same :P
Feb 09 04:40:31 <GeneralAntilles> One giant list?
Feb 09 04:40:33 <GeneralAntilles> No thanks.
Feb 09 04:45:03 <acydlord> sweet, my new centro pairs with no problems
Feb 09 05:14:46 <rift> what's the url to that site that has all the maemo apps apt-get files
Feb 09 05:14:55 <rift> it was somewhere on maemo.org iirc but I can't find it again
Feb 09 05:15:06 <rift> it updates your sources.list
Feb 09 05:35:50 <Null-P> Greetings.  first time here.
Feb 09 05:36:05 <Navi> Hullo thur
Feb 09 05:36:25 <Null-P> wow, lots of folks!
Feb 09 05:36:40 <Null-P> I'm a complete Linux newb.  haven't touched it since college...
Feb 09 05:37:12 <Navi> How long ago was that?
Feb 09 05:37:33 <Null-P> trying to compile Crawl (great Rogue-like) for Maemo...having a little trouble.
Feb 09 05:37:42 <Null-P> yeah, that was 12 years ago.
Feb 09 05:37:48 <Navi> Day-um.
Feb 09 05:38:00 <Null-P> running slackware on my 486!
Feb 09 05:38:07 <Navi> Yeah, I've heard of crawl.  Good stuff.
Feb 09 05:38:15 <Navi> What are you having trouble with?
Feb 09 05:38:48 <Null-P> well, it compiles for x86 but I'm getting an error saying I need newer lib.  Lemme hunt down the exact msg...
Feb 09 05:39:32 <Null-P> crap, gotta recompile.  gonna be a min - running in VMware.
Feb 09 05:40:41 <Navi> VMWare? >_>
Feb 09 05:41:21 <Null-P> running Linux Maemo env in a VMWare window
Feb 09 05:41:30 <Null-P> works pretty well
Feb 09 05:41:52 <Navi> Heh
Feb 09 05:42:58 <Null-P> can you help me with the sb-menu settings I should be using?
Feb 09 05:43:27 <Null-P> doing Chinook i386.
Feb 09 05:43:43 <Null-P> Then should I select glibc or glibc2.5?
Feb 09 05:43:45 <Navi> the maemo sdk installer script set up the crap itself
Feb 09 05:43:50 <Navi> so I don't know :P
Feb 09 05:44:10 <Null-P> so, how do you switch between x86 targets and arm targets?
Feb 09 05:44:38 <Navi> I use sb-conf to switch between the ARMTEL and X86 targets the installer script set up
Feb 09 05:44:50 <Null-P> ah
Feb 09 05:45:02 <rm_you|Ikkicon> GeneralAntilles: yo
Feb 09 05:45:16 <Null-P> do you know if I should be using glibc or glibc2.5?  (I'm a windows guy, this is all greek to me)
Feb 09 05:45:18 <rm_you|Ikkicon> GeneralAntilles: i'm thinking.... new release on Monday? :P
Feb 09 05:45:20 <Navi> GeneralAntilles went to sleep.
Feb 09 05:45:25 <rm_you|Ikkicon> bah, lol
Feb 09 05:45:27 <rm_you|Ikkicon> lies
Feb 09 05:45:30 <Navi> truths
Feb 09 05:45:44 <rm_you|Ikkicon> True Lies? :P
Feb 09 05:45:56 <Navi> True truths
Feb 09 05:47:16 <Navi> I can't build it either, complains about them initializers
Feb 09 05:47:27 <Null-P> you're trying to build crawl?
Feb 09 05:48:35 <Navi> Just went through the compile
Feb 09 05:48:44 <Navi> Errored out
Feb 09 05:49:15 <Navi> Are you building the vanilla source from the official site?
Feb 09 05:50:00 <Null-P> yep
Feb 09 05:50:16 <Null-P> trying anyway.  I had it compiling last night but it complained that I needed glibc I think
Feb 09 05:50:37 <Navi> It probably needs a patch.
Feb 09 05:51:11 <Null-P> it's building now
Feb 09 05:51:18 <Null-P> gonna take a few
Feb 09 05:52:14 <Null-P> ok, it's built
Feb 09 05:52:55 <Navi> Oh? Mmk.
Feb 09 05:53:02 <Null-P> great, now xephyr wont start
Feb 09 05:53:08 <Navi> Heh :P
Feb 09 05:53:28 <Navi> I keep forgetting the capital X
Feb 09 05:53:40 <whooha> is there any app that exists for maemo that will sync with outlook for my n800
Feb 09 05:54:03 <Navi> Gotta go, out.
Feb 09 05:54:11 <whooha> i saw gpe but it looks like you need to sync with google cal
Feb 09 05:55:36 <Null-P> I"m not aware of any such app.  It'd probably be pretty well know if one existed
Feb 09 06:00:56 <Null-P> trying to start xephyr and getting the following error: "sapwood-server[7325]: GLIB WARNING ** Gdk - cannot open display:
Feb 09 06:02:04 <Null-P> oh, is it cuz I"m inside scratchbox?
Feb 09 06:03:17 <Null-P> nvrmnd, got it
Feb 09 06:05:22 <Null-P> ok, the game I'm compiling needs GLIBC_2.3.4.  How can I get this?
Feb 09 06:05:37 <Tama^2> no way
Feb 09 06:05:42 <Null-P> ./crawl: /scratchbox/host_shared/lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3.4' not found (required by ./crawl)
Feb 09 06:05:57 <Null-P> why no way?
Feb 09 06:06:06 <Tama^2> you cannot change the system libc
Feb 09 06:06:30 <Null-P> ok, I can change the compilation to use a different libc then
Feb 09 06:06:33 <Null-P> I guess?
Feb 09 06:06:35 <Tama^2> you can link statically to a different version but I doubt very much maemo 4.0 has more than one libc version
Feb 09 06:07:06 <Tama^2> you can change the requirements in the build scripts
Feb 09 06:07:22 <Tama^2> but compilation will likely fail due to incompatibilities
Feb 09 06:07:33 <Null-P> arrrg
Feb 09 06:07:40 <Tama^2> then you have to hunt down what has changed and fix it
Feb 09 06:08:05 <Null-P> trying a diff libc
Feb 09 06:09:21 <Null-P> looks like chinook uses 2.5, is that correct?
Feb 09 06:09:53 <Tama^2> I think so, I do not have access to scratchbox now
Feb 09 06:28:13 <Null-P> Maybe I can try the static linking solution.  Where is that configured?  I have virtually zero linux dev experience here...
Feb 09 06:28:25 <Null-P> (I dont see anything in the makefile)
Feb 09 07:25:05 <johnx> rm_you, hey :)
Feb 09 07:29:34 <Null-P> so I've copied my executable to the N810, chmod'd it, but I can't launch it.  bash says "-bash: crawl: command not found"
Feb 09 07:29:38 <Null-P> help?  anyone?
Feb 09 07:30:16 <johnx> where did you put it? also did you give the whole path to the executable?
Feb 09 07:30:27 <johnx> /home/user/MyDocs/foo for example...
Feb 09 07:30:33 <Null-P> no, just the local path...lemme try that quick
Feb 09 07:30:39 <Proteous> ./crawl
Feb 09 07:30:52 <johnx> yeah, what Proteous said :)
Feb 09 07:31:13 <Null-P>  the "./" worked, thanks
Feb 09 07:31:20 <Null-P> *sigh* linux...
Feb 09 07:31:38 <Proteous> it's like that for a reason :P
Feb 09 07:32:03 <Null-P> I dont want to start an OS holy war ;0
Feb 09 07:32:11 <johnx> good, then don't start one :P
Feb 09 07:32:16 <Null-P> I work for Microsoft so I'm obviously a Windows Nazi anyway
Feb 09 07:32:25 <johnx> if you say so
Feb 09 07:32:57 <johnx> honestly, it would be difficult for me to care less what software other people run on their computers
Feb 09 07:33:02 <Proteous> if you don't explicitly tell it you want to run the program that is in your current directory it just searches your path for the program
Feb 09 07:33:06 <Proteous> same as DOS does really
Feb 09 07:33:08 <Null-P> I coudln't agree more
Feb 09 07:33:18 <Null-P> dos looks at the local dir first
Feb 09 07:33:40 <johnx> Null-P, you can do that in Linux too if you want...
Feb 09 07:33:47 <johnx> export PATH=./:$PATH
Feb 09 07:33:49 <Null-P> oh? is it a setting?
Feb 09 07:33:56 <Null-P> ah, sure
Feb 09 07:34:00 <johnx> it's just an environment variable
Feb 09 07:34:20 <Null-P> I'll add that!
Feb 09 07:34:58 <Proteous> that will work until you close your terminal :P
Feb 09 07:35:09 <Null-P> by the way, would this run from mmc2 as well?
Feb 09 07:35:16 <Proteous> sure
Feb 09 07:35:20 <Null-P> ok cool
Feb 09 07:36:27 * johnx will be back later
Feb 09 07:37:41 <Proteous> the reason that it isn't a good idea to have your home directory search first or at all for executing programs is that in a multiuser computer it's would be pretty easy to replace a commonly used command like ls with a malicious version in someones home directory that would then be run instead of the real version
Feb 09 07:38:08 <Proteous> on your IT it's not such a big deal
Feb 09 07:38:21 <Null-P> good point
Feb 09 07:38:43 <Null-P> I dont plan to go multiuser with my n810 anytime soon ;)
Feb 09 07:38:59 <Proteous> :P
Feb 09 07:40:40 <Proteous> it's also sort of annoying to have to worry about files you download or store in your home dir that might have the same names as some comands
Feb 09 07:40:43 <Proteous> commands
Feb 09 07:51:25 <Null-P> why can't I chmod on /media/mmc1/blah?
Feb 09 07:51:33 <Null-P> fat filesystem issue?
Feb 09 07:51:55 <Proteous> is it the default filesystem?
Feb 09 07:52:10 <Null-P> it's whatever came from Kingston or whatever...FAT, I would assume
Feb 09 07:53:26 <Proteous> probably
Feb 09 07:53:47 <Null-P> is there any way to make crawl executable from there?
Feb 09 07:54:12 <Null-P> chmod appears to work (no error spew) but the file still isn't +x
Feb 09 07:57:52 <Proteous> I'm not sure, it works fine on my memory card
Feb 09 07:57:59 <Proteous> although I have a 770
Feb 09 07:58:10 <Null-P> yeah, you're right.  I moved it to mmc2 and have hte same problem
Feb 09 07:58:14 <Null-P> what the hell
Feb 09 07:58:26 <Null-P> I'm using bash, i wonder if that's the problem
Feb 09 07:58:37 <Proteous> it shouldn't be
Feb 09 07:59:10 <Null-P> maybe the card is readonly
Feb 09 07:59:29 <Null-P> nope
Feb 09 07:59:37 <solmumaha> it's noexec
Feb 09 07:59:53 <Null-P> both mmc's are noexec?
Feb 09 07:59:59 <solmumaha> yes
Feb 09 08:00:05 <Null-P> gah, why?  can I change that?
Feb 09 08:00:30 <solmumaha> well it's a mount option
Feb 09 08:00:59 <Null-P> so, can I modify the wya the system mounts them?
Feb 09 08:02:35 <solmumaha> guess so
Feb 09 08:02:46 <solmumaha> it guess it's noexec for security reasons
Feb 09 08:03:20 <Null-P> let me rephrase...how can I modify the way the system mounts them?
Feb 09 08:04:41 <solmumaha> try editing /usr/sbin/mmc-mount
Feb 09 08:05:07 <pupnik_> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2408787365037153871  Copyleft Capitalism: GPLv3 & the Future of Software Innovation  Elben Moglen @ IBM - very eloquent and informative!  Download or bookmark for when you have the time!  1hr 31min
Feb 09 08:11:59 <Null-P> darn, that didn't work.  I changed that file to exclude noexec, rebooted, still no dice
Feb 09 08:13:19 <Null-P> I might need to get rid of nodev and nosuid too
Feb 09 08:13:32 <Null-P> can anyone speak to the safety of doing so?
Feb 09 08:15:33 <solmumaha> did you edit /etc/fstab?
Feb 09 08:15:39 <Null-P> no
Feb 09 08:15:51 <solmumaha> try that too
Feb 09 08:17:26 <Null-P> looks promising for mmc1, no entry for mmc2
Feb 09 08:17:53 <solmumaha> not here either
Feb 09 08:18:01 <solmumaha> worked for mm1 though?
Feb 09 08:18:03 <Null-P> not sure where mmc2 is getting its setting
Feb 09 08:18:06 <Null-P> rebooting right now
Feb 09 08:18:06 <solmumaha> mmc1
Feb 09 08:20:27 <Null-P> odd, still no workie
Feb 09 08:20:56 <solmumaha> ah, seems like fmask excludes it
Feb 09 08:21:02 <Null-P> I could specifically add the "exec" flag to mount
Feb 09 08:21:09 <solmumaha> try changing fmask
Feb 09 08:21:14 <Null-P> never even heard of fmask
Feb 09 08:21:57 <solmumaha> try 777 at first
Feb 09 08:22:32 <Null-P> sorry, I'm confused.  chmod 777 <myfile>?
Feb 09 08:23:41 <solmumaha> no, edit that /usr/sbin/mmc-mount
Feb 09 08:24:33 <Null-P> could I see the setting in /etc/mtab?
Feb 09 08:25:31 <Null-P> mtab says the fmask=0133, which is suspictious!
Feb 09 08:33:12 <Null-P> ok, neither mmc1 or mmc2 mount now :(
Feb 09 08:34:16 <solmumaha> :)
Feb 09 08:34:29 <Null-P> oh, I hvae an extra <CR> in the file
Feb 09 08:34:40 <Null-P> is there a way I can attempt to remount them without rebooting?
Feb 09 08:34:52 <Null-P> i mean, without having to type 500 character command line
Feb 09 08:35:38 <solmumaha> mount -o remount
Feb 09 08:37:15 <Null-P> didn't work...rebooting
Feb 09 08:38:35 <Null-P> ok, drives are back :)
Feb 09 08:40:03 <Null-P> arg, now all permissions are gone from all files
Feb 09 08:40:57 <Null-P> so, I changed the fmask from "0133" to "0777"...is that correct?
Feb 09 08:58:58 <pupnik> can i get an unafilliated mask from someone here?
Feb 09 09:53:04 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Feb 09 09:57:39 <lardman> morning all
Feb 09 09:57:56 <solmumaha> morning
Feb 09 10:11:05 <fysa> KDE is nice..
Feb 09 10:11:13 <fysa> would be a lot nicer with a hardware keyboard and mouse.
Feb 09 10:16:18 <lardman> anyone fancy trying out some OE built packages?
Feb 09 10:16:26 <Jaffa> of?
Feb 09 10:16:34 <lardman> dunno, what do you fancy?
Feb 09 10:16:50 <Jaffa> Erm.
Feb 09 10:17:02 <lardman> :)
Feb 09 10:17:28 <Jaffa> Most of my requirements/annoyances won't be fixed by a different build system ;-)
Feb 09 10:18:04 <lardman> hmm, I was going to provide a list for your delectation, but the oe.org server is unreachable
Feb 09 10:18:31 <lardman> Jaffa: True, but it's nice not needing to patch each and every library you need to build an end package
Feb 09 10:18:32 <AD-N770> the room for my daughter: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeptorra
Feb 09 10:18:40 <Jaffa> lardman: true
Feb 09 10:18:48 <AD-N770> I've been paining it :)
Feb 09 10:19:06 * Jaffa been considering doing some static code analysis in mud to auto-hildonise as much as possible.
Feb 09 10:19:21 <lardman> Jaffa: That's why it's useful to me anyway, plus there are lots of people using it, so less work for me to do
Feb 09 10:19:48 <lardman> AD-N770: very nice :)
Feb 09 10:19:50 * Jaffa is doing too much static code analysis at work to translate an RPG-based 4GL to Java, though; so don't fancy doing it for C ;-)
Feb 09 10:20:13 <lardman> Jaffa: what do you do when you do static code analysis?
Feb 09 10:20:46 <lardman> call tree, stuff like that?
Feb 09 10:30:25 <Jaffa> lardman: yeah. The 4GL in question (LANSA) has non-deterministic function signatures; which we don't want to have in our Java :)
Feb 09 10:36:32 <lardman> what tools do you use to trace call trees?
Feb 09 10:36:48 <lardman> arch specific, or based on the source/binary
Feb 09 10:38:11 <Jaffa> Source based using our own Java code.
Feb 09 10:38:51 <Jaffa> Builds up a semantic source tree and then walks it depth-first. That's then handed to an output processor which breadth-first outputs the Java using Eclipse's Java DOM.
Feb 09 10:39:32 <Jaffa> Added variable tracking the other day and got a bit too close to the Halting Problem ;-)
Feb 09 10:40:33 <lardman> Is this a compsci sort of problem, would there be papers available about how to structure such a tool (and mainly the problems encountered)?
Feb 09 10:41:06 <lardman> I think such a thing would be useful, I'll have to start work on a MATLAB version
Feb 09 10:41:11 * Jaffa imagines there are, but I can't recall any OTTOMH
Feb 09 10:41:17 <lardman> or rather a version using MATLAB to analyse other code
Feb 09 10:41:27 <Jaffa> Using MATLAB to analyse code? Eek.
Feb 09 10:41:32 <lardman> np, probably more fun to test it as I go along
Feb 09 10:41:47 <lardman> Jaffa: well the code is just text data, so it should be ok
Feb 09 10:43:22 <Jaffa> A three-stage process: extract, semantically analyse, output is definitely beneficial. Our source system stores its source code in a DB so we extract that as closely as possible (to a series of XML files). We then have classes for each command in the source language and run over the raw source, creating blocks and putting command class instances into them. These then get persisted to semantically meaningful XML. We then crawl that tree identifying call signa
Feb 09 10:43:29 <Jaffa> a Java outputter.
Feb 09 10:43:57 <Jaffa> An earlier prototype tried to do it in a yacc/bison/javacc manner; but that's just not scalable and doesn't give you the flexibility IMHO
Feb 09 10:46:20 <lardman> good point, tokenising the commands might be useful if I want to do anything other than work out the call tree
Feb 09 10:46:45 <lardman> starting to sound more painful by the minute
Feb 09 10:46:52 <Jaffa> Anyway, I should mow the lawn so Mrs Jaffa doesn't complain.
Feb 09 10:47:09 <lardman> while the sun's shining :)
Feb 09 10:47:25 <Jaffa> It's proper hard CS stuff, but great fun when you're doing it with some of the other best techies in a company, which is usually focused on consultancy rather than software. Makes a nice change.
Feb 09 10:47:32 <Jaffa> lardman: indeed
Feb 09 10:47:57 <lardman> I'll give me something interesting to learn about :) and then probably pull my hair out about!
Feb 09 10:48:12 <lardman> s/I/It
Feb 09 11:03:44 <edistar> anyone got canola to work on OS 2007 HE?
Feb 09 11:03:56 <edistar> (canola2 that is..)
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Feb 09 12:06:25 <johnx> halp! we're being flooded with modern-art poetry!
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Feb 09 12:19:09 <alterego> Sorry for the flood :/
Feb 09 13:02:17 <pupnik> spammer attack.  btw are youtubes going slow for anyone else here?
Feb 09 13:03:59 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, I was hijacking Navi to be my Scratchbox install for me. :]
Feb 09 13:04:02 <lardman> http://pastebin.ca/897312 what does this error mean?
Feb 09 13:04:50 <lardman> I expected to see something having failed rather than make just complaining
Feb 09 13:05:09 <johnx> so, what exactly is the point of spamming without some kind of product placement? did I miss the memo?
Feb 09 13:05:37 <pupnik> vandalism johnx
Feb 09 13:05:44 <pupnik> lardman: looks mysterious :/
Feb 09 13:06:09 <johnx> lardman, look further up maybe?
Feb 09 13:06:23 <pupnik> heh partition full?  :/me ducks
Feb 09 13:06:41 <johnx> did you have several parallel makes running (make -j4)?
Feb 09 13:06:48 <jott> atleast 2 ;)
Feb 09 13:07:25 <jott> error messages with parallel builds can be way up from the last log lines ..
Feb 09 13:13:11 <johnx> jott, thanks to you I have buttons working in Debian, and I've got enough of the DSP stuff hacked into place to run alsamixer. Some device files aren't being created so I still don't have sound...
Feb 09 13:13:36 <jott> ah nice
Feb 09 13:13:54 <jott> hmm
Feb 09 13:16:58 <lardman> johnx: yeah I did, but I restarted the build and it ought to then fail on a single thing
Feb 09 13:17:12 <lardman> johnx: I'll do some more looking
Feb 09 13:17:35 <jott> i wonder why the sound does not work.. the device should be /dev/dsptask/pcm0 i guess!?
Feb 09 13:18:01 <johnx> jott, yeah, but it's not created...I'm going to mknod it in a sec
Feb 09 13:18:16 <lardman> jott: what does "dsp_dld -p" say?
Feb 09 13:18:45 <johnx> I'll tell you in a minute, N800 is booted into OS2008 right now so I can spy on how they do things :)
Feb 09 13:18:49 <jott> Can't open /lib/dsp/dsp_dld.conf
Feb 09 13:18:49 <jott> status = 2
Feb 09 13:20:28 <lardman> make a symlink from whichever conf file does exist there to that one
Feb 09 13:20:53 * lardman looks for a device to check the name
Feb 09 13:21:40 <lardman> ln -s dsp_dld_avs.conf dsp_dld.conf
Feb 09 13:21:59 <johnx> ah, actually it'll be more than a minute. I forgot that I reflashed O_o
Feb 09 13:22:38 <lardman> yeah I did that and realised I forgot to save my dsp testing files
Feb 09 13:22:50 <lardman> had to rebuild everything and tweak the conf files, annoying
Feb 09 13:23:22 <johnx> ugh...very lame
Feb 09 13:23:44 <lardman> anyway, that's the dsp dynamic loader, it should tell you which tasks have been registered and what errors have been produced loading a task if that's the problem for you guys
Feb 09 13:23:47 <johnx> that's why I like having things on SD card: just put it in the SD card reader on my desk and rsync it somewhere
Feb 09 13:24:19 <lardman> ah, cards aren't executable though, which is a pain
Feb 09 13:24:30 <lardman> I could remount it, but am lazy :)
Feb 09 13:25:27 <johnx> ah, I should have said "that's why I like having / on an SD card" :)
Feb 09 13:27:12 <lardman> ah, fair enough
Feb 09 13:27:32 <jott> i have my / on the n810s internal 2gb ;)
Feb 09 13:28:25 <johnx> I think my favorite part of root on SD is the "remove and recover part" :)
Feb 09 13:30:36 <lardman> jott: has that produced any interesting output?
Feb 09 13:32:03 <jott> it did say mkdev a few times yeah
Feb 09 13:32:14 <johnx> ah, interesting :)
Feb 09 13:32:18 <lardman> probably only for the built in tasks though
Feb 09 13:32:44 <lardman> actually, no it should make them for everything in the conf file now that I think about it
Feb 09 13:39:53 <lcuk> is the sdl library a specific port for maemo or is it just compiled from standard sourcetree?
Feb 09 13:50:12 <jott> lcuk: it's basically just using the X11 backend
Feb 09 13:51:32 <lcuk> ahhhh, so i look at what x is doing re:chunky bytes to bitplanes and i should start to see the inner workings
Feb 09 13:52:32 * lcuk fondly remebers amiga bitplanes
Feb 09 13:53:23 <K-Fox> what is the name of Google Talk on n800?
Feb 09 13:53:48 <lcuk> even if i get something up and running i gather direct access to the planar framebuffer would need kernel module rather than a normal user program
Feb 09 13:54:57 * lcuk doesnt need to modify 12fullbitplanes every cycle for a monochrome book image
Feb 09 13:56:33 <jott> lcuk: what are you trying to achieve?
Feb 09 13:58:18 <lcuk> im just seeing if i can get a low color image smooth scrolling.  different direction to games and movies - i dont need color but i need full resolution
Feb 09 13:58:39 <lcuk> black and white is good for books
Feb 09 13:59:29 <jott> using the same bpp as the lcd should be the fastet way to do things
Feb 09 14:00:24 <lcuk> i know the lcd framebuffer works with a 12bpp image, so if i can start modifying just a single plane it will be best.  sdl at minimum has a whole chunky-planar conversion layer
Feb 09 14:00:35 <lcuk> yes
Feb 09 14:01:15 <lcuk> also it might stop wasting battery and heating up if i am doing minimum possible
Feb 09 14:01:47 <K-Fox> is it possible to install xmms on OS 2007?
Feb 09 14:02:06 <lcuk> all bonuses for a specific task.  and as i said, it doesnt matter that its monochrome :)
Feb 09 14:02:44 <johnx> K-Fox, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11892&highlight=xmms+os2007
Feb 09 14:03:50 <K-Fox> oh~~ also it 's only johnx~~~
Feb 09 14:03:51 <lcuk> now i can actually compile stuff i can begin to sort out the things i need...
Feb 09 14:03:53 <lardman> lcuk: is this text you're scrolling?
Feb 09 14:04:53 <lcuk> yes its bookreader i want.  i dont see why i should get a brand new device which cant do what my 5year old pda can do ;)
Feb 09 14:05:48 <lardman> lcuk: you could probably use hardware pixel doubling then as the detail will be sufficient
Feb 09 14:06:27 <johnx> lardman, heresy!
Feb 09 14:06:51 <lcuk> nahhh lardman, halving the resolution leaves it looking as bad, and pixeldoubling is great for fullcolor
Feb 09 14:06:55 <johnx> seriously though, I guess it means I'm spoiled that I will only read books on a 200dpi+ screen
Feb 09 14:07:30 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, the 800x480 resolution is what makes book reading so damn awesmoe.
Feb 09 14:07:47 <lardman> really? fair enough
Feb 09 14:08:02 <lcuk> i am aiming to write a single bitplane of data and work with that.   that is 12x less data than fullscreen color
Feb 09 14:08:08 <GeneralAntilles> Have YOU tried to read a book at normal PDA pdi? :P
Feb 09 14:08:13 <johnx> lardman, also pixel doubling is a lot more noticeable in a stationary black and white image than it is in full frame rate video...
Feb 09 14:08:24 <lcuk> like i said, its a different aim to game code
Feb 09 14:08:34 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, I used to read ebooks on my 160x160px visor :P
Feb 09 14:08:36 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: I've tried on the N800 and I'd still like a larger screen ;)
Feb 09 14:09:02 <GeneralAntilles> The NITs are perfect for me.
Feb 09 14:09:06 <GeneralAntilles> Right in there with mass-market size
Feb 09 14:09:13 <GeneralAntilles> and absolutely beautiful text rendering.
Feb 09 14:09:28 <GeneralAntilles> I've tried reading ebooks on a lot of devices in the past.
Feb 09 14:09:37 <GeneralAntilles> NIT are the only ones I've managed it with.
Feb 09 14:09:40 <lcuk> but slow because all the standard libraries assume fullcolor is needed
Feb 09 14:11:09 <lcuk> so my question becomes, can i modify the basic lcd bitplane oriented framebuffer directly from my code or does that need to be a kernel module
Feb 09 14:11:14 <lardman> ssvb: do you have a pointer to some code that sets the colorspace; I should really do some more on that dsp task (at least get the lib interface working finalised) for testing
Feb 09 14:11:35 <lardman> lcuk
Feb 09 14:11:38 <lardman> oops
Feb 09 14:11:50 <lardman> the answer is that yes you can modify it directly
Feb 09 14:12:31 <lardman> mplayer code is one thing to look at, or ask ssvb if he's about
Feb 09 14:12:50 <lcuk> cool, i will start looking, im not expecting instant woohoo, i am still finding my way but i know now what i want to achieve :)
Feb 09 14:13:09 <lardman> though to produce black, you need to alter all the parts of rgb, what do you need to do with yuv?
Feb 09 14:13:59 <lardman> ah, just the Y plane
Feb 09 14:14:00 <lcuk> well, that wont be a major problem, first gen can be greenscreen for all i care
Feb 09 14:14:43 <lcuk> the mplayer code is supplied as diffs, is that a diff from the main branch?
Feb 09 14:15:06 <lcuk> or is the entire thing in his cvs
Feb 09 14:15:28 <lardman> the whole thing is in cvs/svn
Feb 09 14:15:39 <lardman> I think anyway :)
Feb 09 14:15:42 <lcuk> fair enough ill checkitout later.
Feb 09 14:15:54 <ssvb> lardman: video output is done in 'omapfb_screen_update' function from https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/libvo/vo_nokia770.c?root=mplayer&view=markup
Feb 09 14:16:39 <lcuk> its ok ill find my way.  there has been so much to learn so far   im glad i am finally being able to move past compiling and now actually understanding the system a bit better
Feb 09 14:16:40 <ssvb> lardman: with YUV color format, brightness is specified by Y component (U and V components are responsible for color)
Feb 09 14:17:22 <ssvb> lardman: that's why decoding video in grayscale is faster, you can skip U and V planes completely
Feb 09 14:17:25 <lcuk> thanks ssvb ill have a look later
Feb 09 14:17:46 <ssvb> lcuk: what are you trying to achieve?
Feb 09 14:17:47 <lardman> ssvb: I'm going to do a quick test to check that I can place the data in the correct screen location - just writing a single colour block
Feb 09 14:18:05 <lardman> ssvb: then I need to see how I can change the colourspace from DSP-land
Feb 09 14:18:18 <lcuk> scrollback, my little 810 keyboard isnt that quick for explaining
Feb 09 14:19:17 <lcuk> gen, my cradle is perfect now i dremelled a notch for power cable
Feb 09 14:20:26 <LoCusF> has anyone tried the DC-1 power pack from nokia on n810Ã?
Feb 09 14:20:46 <ssvb> lardman: check omapfb.h, look for defines which start with OMAPFB_FORMAT_*
Feb 09 14:21:45 <ssvb> lardman: judging from the comment in omapfb.h, DSP should provide a 16-bit value with these flags for with the screen update request
Feb 09 14:22:05 <lardman> ssvb: great, thanks
Feb 09 14:22:36 <lcuk> lard, are you aiming for dsp video decoding?
Feb 09 14:23:09 <lardman> lcuk: no, a dsp scaler/colorspace convertor is the goal for ssvb to use in mplayer
Feb 09 14:24:11 <johnx> hmm...I appear to have broken my Debian install :/
Feb 09 14:24:23 <lcuk> nice :) while you are poking around inside the 2420 keep your eye out for powervr connections ;)
Feb 09 14:24:40 <lardman> lcuk: I have a driver
Feb 09 14:25:05 <lardman> lcuk: It doesn't seem to do anything though. Need to sit down and work out what's causing that
Feb 09 14:25:10 <lcuk> can we send data to it and get results?
Feb 09 14:25:38 <lardman> no, it insmod's ok, but doesn't produce the expected /dev and /proc entries
Feb 09 14:25:42 <lcuk> is it the old one for the agp cards?
Feb 09 14:25:50 <lardman> no no, powervr mbx
Feb 09 14:26:06 <lardman> it's from the omap 2430 sdk though
Feb 09 14:26:22 <lcuk> may just need tweaking
Feb 09 14:26:26 <lardman> and for the wrong kernel version, so it needs some coaxing to get it into the kernel
Feb 09 14:27:08 <lcuk> yer, dont rush tho, its not like 100s of n8x0 owners are interested ;)
Feb 09 14:27:08 <lardman> yeah, I need to follow the execution path and see what happens to stop it creating the entries but likewise not failing
Feb 09 14:27:32 <lardman> you're more than welcome to have a go :)
Feb 09 14:27:53 <pH5> lardman: an open source part that exports the registers to userspace for the binary-only proprietary driver libraries?
Feb 09 14:28:03 <lcuk> let me get a bit more down the line with the workings and ii gladly will
Feb 09 14:28:22 <lardman> pH5: the driver is binary only too
Feb 09 14:28:32 <lardman> pH5: and not GPL
Feb 09 14:28:44 <pH5> of course, what was I thinking..
Feb 09 14:29:06 <lardman> pH5: but I guess it just maps the registers & shared memory regions and lets the library do most of the work yes
Feb 09 14:29:26 <lardman> at least that's what it looks like looking at the exports
Feb 09 14:29:54 <lardman> the call tree has been flattened quite severely, it will take quite some time to work out what it actually does
Feb 09 14:30:04 <lardman> obfuscated
Feb 09 14:30:14 <lcuk> there isnt actually that much work for a 3d driver to do, if we can get firstlight so to speak tthe rest will come with time
Feb 09 14:31:03 <lardman> lcuk: I really *need* to finish the vorbis decoder debugging, it's sort of hanging over me; then I'll put some more time into the powervr
Feb 09 14:31:54 <lcuk> like i said lard, just keep your eyes open, you are working nextdoor with your dsp stuff :)
Feb 09 14:32:41 <lardman> lcuk: there's nothing in there afaict, but it looks like some of the naming is similar. On the dsp mbx is used to signify a mailbox. Got me excited for a while :)
Feb 09 14:32:57 <lcuk> ill go and dive into the fb code and see what i can achieve
Feb 09 14:33:07 <lardman> good luck :)
Feb 09 14:33:14 <lcuk> ditto..
Feb 09 14:49:05 <lardman> http://pastebin.ca/897378 these values are used on the dsp to write to the framebuffer
Feb 09 14:49:48 <lardman> the first part appears to be what one would expect in rgb565
Feb 09 14:50:28 <lardman> i.e. the col.bg part
Feb 09 14:51:56 <lardman> hmm, ignore me, just waffle
Feb 09 14:53:31 * lardman was looking at only part of the original code, and thought the values needed to be padded with something
Feb 09 15:02:41 <lardman> Anyone familiar with Windows? How should I create a window that isn't automatically redrawn (so I can draw to it from the DSP)?
Feb 09 15:17:21 <ssvb> lardman: you can check vo_noka770.c from mplayer (X11 helper functions section)
Feb 09 15:18:46 <lardman> thanks again :)
Feb 09 15:19:19 <ssvb> lardman: it got more bloated over time, but it should be quite easy to strip the basic functionality
Feb 09 15:21:16 <lardman_> ~lart my computer
Feb 09 15:21:16 * infobot blasts my computer to oblivion with a kamehameha wave
Feb 09 15:21:28 * Navi does a hadoken
Feb 09 15:21:29 <johnx> ubuntu not treating you right?
Feb 09 15:22:01 <lardman_> Ubuntu is fine, must be some sort of hardware glitch that is still taking it down from time to tim
Feb 09 15:22:03 <lardman_> e
Feb 09 15:22:25 <johnx> just a reboot out of the blue sort of thing?
Feb 09 15:22:51 <lardman_> everything freezes except for the mouse, but that gets stuck on the main window
Feb 09 15:23:00 <lardman_> can't leave the main window I should say
Feb 09 15:23:24 <johnx> hmm, and alt-ctrl-backspace won't save you? alt-sysrq have any effecct?
Feb 09 15:23:35 <zoran> lardman_, does it work 24/7?
Feb 09 15:23:50 <lardman_> didn't try alt-sysrq, can't kill the xserver tho
Feb 09 15:24:06 <lardman_> zoran: no, it's a home pc
Feb 09 15:24:31 <zoran> some ram or power problems could get those on pc
Feb 09 15:25:24 <lardman_> I think it might be graphics card related, I see occasional crashes when in WinXP that are blamed on a graphics card driver
Feb 09 15:25:48 <jott> ssvb: nice read indeed (your source ;-). is the actual blitting done in vo_draw_alpha_omapfb_yuv420? the loop looks quite unomptimized...
Feb 09 15:25:57 <johnx> aaah...fun. I actually had a geforce 4 Ti 4200 that had bad capacitors...
Feb 09 15:26:24 <ssvb> jott: no, it is only used for subtitles
Feb 09 15:26:26 <zoran> cheap consumer electronics
Feb 09 15:26:34 <jott> ah ok.
Feb 09 15:26:54 <lardman_> I've got a spare card, I should swap them and see if that's the problem
Feb 09 15:27:13 <dererk> Hello everyone :D
Feb 09 15:27:21 <johnx> hi :)
Feb 09 15:27:34 <dererk> :D
Feb 09 15:27:40 * lardman_ 's eyes hurt, time for a break
Feb 09 15:28:01 <dererk> Is it just me or akamai 'nice' servers are kinda down again? :/
Feb 09 15:29:02 <johnx> they're broken intermittently for me
Feb 09 15:29:21 <johnx> sometimes they claim they're getting a connection refused from 127.0.0.1 :)
Feb 09 15:29:23 <ssvb> jott: this function can be optimized, but it is not very performance critical, so it was kept as is
Feb 09 15:29:24 <dererk> :(
Feb 09 15:29:55 <dererk> I still can't understand how bad products are offered by nokia :/
Feb 09 15:30:03 <dererk> I thought nokia was cool
Feb 09 15:30:24 * dererk sighs
Feb 09 15:30:26 <jott> ssvb: just wondering, the blitting for actual video frames is then done by vo_draw_alpha_yuy2_C?
Feb 09 15:31:54 <ssvb> jott: frames blitting is done in arm_jit_swscale.*
Feb 09 15:32:01 <jott> aye.. thanks.
Feb 09 15:40:23 <johnx> hey rm_you :D
Feb 09 15:45:41 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, gimme the source to the .so with the volume slider. :P
Feb 09 15:46:35 <johnx> ping rm_you|Ikkicon :P
Feb 09 15:47:36 <johnx> I think his computer must have just gotten bored and logged onto IRC. This "Ikkicon" is probably more interesting than us...
Feb 09 15:47:44 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Feb 09 15:49:01 <rm_you|Ikkicon> pong johnx
Feb 09 15:49:15 <johnx> he lives!
Feb 09 15:49:28 <rm_you|Ikkicon> GeneralAntilles: it's on the site? i think
Feb 09 15:49:28 <johnx> having fun at Ikkicon?
Feb 09 15:49:38 <jott> just a veeeeery laggy internet connection :)
Feb 09 15:49:40 <rm_you|Ikkicon> the trinity.edu one
Feb 09 15:49:52 <rm_you|Ikkicon> no... just no keyboard
Feb 09 15:50:04 <GeneralAntilles> I don't see it.
Feb 09 15:50:07 <rm_you|Ikkicon> typing with stylus :/
Feb 09 15:50:12 <GeneralAntilles> Anyway, you get my e-mail? :P
Feb 09 15:50:13 <rm_you|Ikkicon> hrm
Feb 09 15:50:16 <rm_you|Ikkicon> yes
Feb 09 15:50:22 <rm_you|Ikkicon> the pngs are...
Feb 09 15:50:30 <rm_you|Ikkicon> nearly invisible
Feb 09 15:50:38 <GeneralAntilles> On a white background.
Feb 09 15:50:45 <rm_you|Ikkicon> dunno how they'll look on the n800 tho
Feb 09 15:50:50 <GeneralAntilles> Great. :D
Feb 09 15:50:50 <rm_you|Ikkicon> yeah
Feb 09 15:50:54 <rm_you|Ikkicon> lolk
Feb 09 15:50:56 <GeneralAntilles> Recompiled so it'll do 7 levels.
Feb 09 15:51:03 <GeneralAntilles> Cool sutff.
Feb 09 15:51:22 <rm_you|Ikkicon> i can't get to the build machine from here easily
Feb 09 15:51:43 <GeneralAntilles> Just need to source to the one with the volume slider. :P
Feb 09 15:52:52 <rm_you|Ikkicon> sunday ;/
Feb 09 15:52:59 <rm_you|Ikkicon> cant get to it
Feb 09 15:53:16 <rm_you|Ikkicon> it's behind the campus firewall
Feb 09 15:53:16 <GeneralAntilles> Sounds fine. :D
Feb 09 15:53:24 <rm_you|Ikkicon> kk
Feb 09 15:53:36 <GeneralAntilles> How's the con?
Feb 09 15:53:41 <dererk> morning GeneralAntilles :D
Feb 09 15:53:46 <GeneralAntilles> Howdy.
Feb 09 15:53:48 <rm_you|Ikkicon> fun :)
Feb 09 15:54:14 <rm_you|Ikkicon> get to talk to mooki from Dominic Deegan today :)
Feb 09 15:55:43 <dererk> surprisingly, I can't force local dns resolving to use another IP than the one it does resolv my dns... so I can't still use repository.maemo.org
Feb 09 15:55:44 <dererk> :D
Feb 09 16:05:56 <pupnik> "How does it work?"
Feb 09 16:06:13 <pupnik> "Ehm ahm.. I know not, my liege."
Feb 09 16:13:55 <K-Fox> menconer
Feb 09 16:14:10 <johnx> mencoder
Feb 09 16:14:32 <felipec> mencoder?
Feb 09 16:14:37 <johnx> yes
Feb 09 16:14:57 <felipec> mencoder what?
Feb 09 16:15:09 <johnx> I dunno. ask him
Feb 09 16:15:11 * johnx shrugs
Feb 09 16:15:45 <K-Fox> is it possible to convert files to console mode on winxp
Feb 09 16:16:08 <K-Fox> mencoder
Feb 09 16:16:15 <felipec> K-Fox: what is console mode?
Feb 09 16:16:31 <K-Fox> cmd
Feb 09 16:16:46 <K-Fox> dos mode
Feb 09 16:16:54 <johnx> K-Fox, yes, but it's not necessary
Feb 09 16:17:26 * felipec scratches his head
Feb 09 16:17:55 <johnx> felipec, he's asking if it's possible to convert videos on the command line in windows xp using mencoder
Feb 09 16:18:14 <felipec> johnx: ohhhh
Feb 09 16:18:40 * johnx should major in internet languages
Feb 09 16:19:42 <GnutoN810> hi
Feb 09 16:19:48 <johnx> hi
Feb 09 16:20:16 <GnutoN810> hey johnx
Feb 09 16:20:21 <GnutoN810> :)
Feb 09 16:20:36 * johnx should actually go to bed soon though
Feb 09 16:20:53 <K-Fox> bye
Feb 09 16:21:13 <johnx> K-Fox, look up "tablet-encode" if you're trying to encode video for the N8x0
Feb 09 16:21:15 <johnx> 'night all
Feb 09 16:21:54 <K-Fox> haha ok
Feb 09 16:23:21 <GnutoN810> johnx, night
Feb 09 16:30:29 <fysa> is it possible to extend a virtual desktop beyond the native screen resolution?
Feb 09 16:30:35 <fysa> with our X server?
Feb 09 17:22:55 <pupnik810> <suihkulokki> people drool on thin things
Feb 09 17:26:50 <lcuk_2> pupnik, get a raincoat for your 810 then
Feb 09 17:28:58 <elb> there's a pistol company that makes carry pistols which are quite thin (.90", give or take), and they've been running ads in magazines that say "Thin is Sexy", with a model holding the pistol
Feb 09 17:29:03 <elb> that's the first thing I thought of ;-)
Feb 09 17:29:18 <elb> http://kahr.com/
Feb 09 17:29:27 <elb> they have it on their front page, even
Feb 09 17:32:33 <lcuk_2> it seems really strange to have gunstores and websites like that.
Feb 09 17:32:53 <lcuk_2> here in the uk i think only farmers are allowed guns (im joking i know theres more)
Feb 09 17:34:01 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Feb 09 17:34:03 <GeneralAntilles> UK is fail.
Feb 09 17:35:01 <GeneralAntilles> elb, for the pocket-pistol range, Keltec is a lot cooler. :D
Feb 09 17:35:09 <elb> no, it's not
Feb 09 17:35:11 <lcuk_2> nahhh, uk isnt FAIL, its diabolical and run by numpties, but you could say that about any country
Feb 09 17:35:33 <elb> the Kel-Tec is *smaller* -- but they're pretty crappy
Feb 09 17:35:48 <elb> whereas the Kahr is an extremely well-engineered and precisely-built pistol
Feb 09 17:35:58 <elb> comparing the two is like comparing a Gremlin and a Jaguar ;-)
Feb 09 17:37:07 <GeneralAntilles> Have you had an opportunity to try a PLR-16?
Feb 09 17:37:16 <GeneralAntilles> (not exactly a pocket pistol :D)
Feb 09 17:37:18 <elb> I've handled one, but never fired it
Feb 09 17:37:26 <elb> they seem okay
Feb 09 17:37:28 <GeneralAntilles> Pure insanity
Feb 09 17:37:37 <GeneralAntilles> Stick a big comp on the end and a red-dot.
Feb 09 17:37:42 <elb> it's basically their SU-16 on a pistol grip
Feb 09 17:37:47 <GeneralAntilles> Right
Feb 09 17:38:01 <GeneralAntilles> About the loudest thing I've ever heard at a range. <_<
Feb 09 17:38:14 <elb> heh you should hear a SOCOM-16
Feb 09 17:38:38 <elb> .308 out of a 16 1/2" compensated barrel is ... loud
Feb 09 17:38:45 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Feb 09 17:40:58 <pupnik> no scratches yet (knock on wood)
Feb 09 17:41:15 <pupnik> a nice compact hardcase would be good
Feb 09 17:42:33 <elb> yeah, a thin aluminum case that was just large enough for the 810 would be very nice
Feb 09 17:42:46 <GeneralAntilles> Otterbox?
Feb 09 17:42:56 <GeneralAntilles> Plastic, but.
Feb 09 17:48:35 <lcuk_2> still talking about gun boxes or 810?
Feb 09 18:07:45 <Navi> http://youtube.com/watch?v=OHKmQoS8oGY
Feb 09 18:07:47 <Navi> O_o
Feb 09 18:08:08 <pupnik> why can't i paste into vnc :(
Feb 09 18:08:27 <Navi> separate clipboard
Feb 09 18:08:49 <pupnik> do i need to run some kde-esque clipboard manager on the client machine?
Feb 09 18:09:05 <pupnik> vnc preferences claims it is forwarding clipboard both ways
Feb 09 18:09:22 <Navi> Really?
Feb 09 18:09:45 <pupnik> i am using a two-button mouse (l+r) for paste
Feb 09 18:10:12 <GeneralAntilles> Laser keyboards suck.
Feb 09 18:10:40 <hahlo> GeneralAntilles: did you managed to boot debian?
Feb 09 18:10:45 <GeneralAntilles> Yes.
Feb 09 18:10:52 <Navi> How is it?
Feb 09 18:11:08 <GeneralAntilles> Debian?
Feb 09 18:11:10 <Navi> Yes
Feb 09 18:11:13 <GeneralAntilles> Little rough around the edges.
Feb 09 18:11:19 <Navi> Sexy
Feb 09 18:11:28 <Navi> I'm out for a bit.
Feb 09 18:16:27 <pupnik> ok Navi - just had to run vncconfig within the remote vnc session
Feb 09 18:18:59 <nocelic> Hi, I have been trying to access maemo.rubyx.co.uk for some time already, but the site seems to be down all the time. Is there maybe an alternate download site for Ruby-Maemo, or someone here who could provide the .deb?
Feb 09 18:21:15 <crevetor> hi, is there still a problem with repository.maemo.org ?
Feb 09 18:22:33 <pupnik> any complex undertaking has problems
Feb 09 18:27:12 <crevetor> infobot repository.maemo.org deb
Feb 09 18:27:13 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, repository.maemo.org deb is unofficial, all warrantees void, http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/repository-maemo-org-dns-0.1.deb
Feb 09 18:28:46 <pupnik> that needs a more descriptive title
Feb 09 18:28:54 <pupnik> what t.f. does it do?
Feb 09 18:30:34 * lcuk kicks xchat for windows
Feb 09 18:31:56 <lcuk> does xchat maemo expire?
Feb 09 18:32:05 <lcuk> (as in 30 day trial)
Feb 09 18:32:25 <GeneralAntilles> <_<
Feb 09 18:32:35 <GeneralAntilles> Isn't xchat GPL?
Feb 09 18:33:24 <pupnik> yes it is
Feb 09 18:33:46 <pupnik> i sense a soul infected by the Windows disease
Feb 09 18:34:04 * pupnik gets holy water 
Feb 09 18:34:05 <GeneralAntilles> There is but one path to absolution, sinner!
Feb 09 18:34:06 * RS_Asleep gets out the soap and brush
Feb 09 18:34:50 <lcuk> a pre-built exe for windows requires "registration" for use over 30 days.
Feb 09 18:34:54 <Sho_> pupnik: The Windows builds of X-Chat are payware
Feb 09 18:34:56 <lcuk> i can rebuild it if i like
Feb 09 18:35:06 <GeneralAntilles> That's so lame.
Feb 09 18:35:09 <lcuk> tho they say the road is long and tricky
Feb 09 18:35:23 <lcuk> they also say there are some extra bits included...
Feb 09 18:35:52 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody should go take away their computers.
Feb 09 18:35:53 <RS_Asleep> Does it depend on what GPS you are using too? After all, if it's a bit wonky you could end up in a field instead of a Little Chef...
Feb 09 18:35:57 <GeneralAntilles> they don't deserve them anymore.
Feb 09 18:37:01 <lcuk> its not a big deal, knowing its gpl and available - ill just go and stalk dc++ and grab a pre-built unlocked version
Feb 09 18:38:05 <lcuk> i like it - all the available versions call it cracked :D
Feb 09 18:38:28 <lcuk> illicit xchat
Feb 09 18:39:19 <pupnik> Sho_: it appears to me that there is someone asking $20 for his builds of xchat, and i fail to see how he is in compliance with GPL
Feb 09 18:39:51 <lcuk> no, theres nothing wrong with asking for a precompiled version
Feb 09 18:40:08 <lcuk> they are compliant because they supply the source
Feb 09 18:40:39 <lcuk> tand if i wanted i could build it on win system, but since 99% of windows systems dont have a compiler toolchain it is more work
Feb 09 18:42:48 <Sho_> pupnik: Nothing in the GPL says you can't ask for money. All it says is that you're required to respond to requests to make sources available when distributing.
Feb 09 18:42:51 <lcuk_2> YARRRR!!!!
Feb 09 18:42:56 <lcuk_2> i be a pirate
Feb 09 18:43:36 <Sho_> pupnik: I.e. it's perfectly in compliance with the GPL, and I can understand it in some way -- I wouldn't want to work on Windows software/builds in my spare/unpaid time either
Feb 09 18:43:45 * lcuk_2 grabs a bottle of rum and a buxom wench
Feb 09 18:45:10 <pupnik> i stand corrected Sho_
Feb 09 18:45:49 <lcuk_2> besides windows users make up a large percentage, and most of us dont mind paying for software.
Feb 09 18:46:31 <lcuk_2> i have no objections to supporting a closed source program if it does what i want, however if its gpl and other builds are available i might as well take advantage :)
Feb 09 18:46:45 * lcuk_2 swings his cutless
Feb 09 18:47:11 <lcuk_2> with an a
Feb 09 18:48:16 <pupnik> I personally don't see any reason to pay for standard tools like an OS, editor or IRC program.   These are essentially solutions to problems that essentially only need to be solved once, and therefore these domains gain the most from a free, open-source model.
Feb 09 18:49:26 <pupnik> This is quite distinct from a creative work like a video game.  The essence of this is a creative work that doesn't function as a universal tool, but as a work of art.  These have high development cost, and limited (usually) time to make a ROI.  For these I do like to pay.
Feb 09 18:50:49 <elb> I think the open source world has proven that all of those admit multiple solutions ;-)
Feb 09 18:51:17 <elb> OS has converged farther than the others, but the BSDs are still going; text editor and IRC client are not even similar to converged ;-)
Feb 09 18:54:16 <pupnik> Sho_ the xchat 'shareware' issue is perhaps not so clear http://forum.xchat.org/viewtopic.php?t=502&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45&sid=e710ffdcab9f115bef412d0b4ee5bbd0
Feb 09 18:55:31 <Sho_> pupnik: If he has done modifications he doesn't release the sources for, he's in violation
Feb 09 18:56:10 <Sho_> pupnik: But I gotta be careful not to say evil things, because I work on a competitor :)
Feb 09 18:56:46 <pupnik> yes i seem to recall allowing for remuneration for 'distribution costs'.  and source has to be available upon request - not necessarily shipped with every binary
Feb 09 18:59:05 <pupnik> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2408787365037153871  Copyleft Capitalism: GPLv3 and the Future of Software Innovation
Feb 09 18:59:40 <elb> you can charge as much as you want for GPL'd software
Feb 09 18:59:49 <elb> you just can't keep the next guy from giving it to whoever he wants for free
Feb 09 19:00:04 <elb> X-Chat is a bit of a different story, if I remember correctly, it has some sort of dual license thing going on
Feb 09 19:01:52 <pupnik> What if I make changes, release a binary for money, and supply my patches as obfusticated code?
Feb 09 19:02:42 <elb> the GPL precludes obfuscated code
Feb 09 19:02:47 <elb> it has a clause about "preferred form"
Feb 09 19:03:13 <elb> "The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it."
Feb 09 19:08:02 <lcuk_2> what if the mods come from a modified gcc?
Feb 09 19:08:15 <lcuk_2> sure the user could request it but how would you know?
Feb 09 19:10:46 <elb> if you're talking about a ken-style hack ... it's possible to what-if ad absurdum, of course
Feb 09 19:10:51 <hrw> morning
Feb 09 19:11:02 <hrw> obfuscated code is still code
Feb 09 19:11:18 <elb> but it's not "the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it"
Feb 09 19:11:27 <hrw> really?
Feb 09 19:11:51 <hrw> elb: I take gpl app, modify and then give you binary. I have to give you also modifications
Feb 09 19:12:02 <hrw> elb: no info how readable those modifications need to be
Feb 09 19:12:08 <elb> yes, there IS INFO
Feb 09 19:12:15 <elb> the sentence I just quoted is from the GPL
Feb 09 19:12:28 <elb> ... people should read the GPL before speculating upon it
Feb 09 19:12:32 <hrw> elb: what if I always write obfuscated code?
Feb 09 19:12:45 <elb> then that is the preferred form, assuming the obfuscated code is what you personally edit
Feb 09 19:13:05 <elb> and we're back to ad absurdum
Feb 09 19:13:37 <hrw> hopefully I am not quite programmer
Feb 09 19:15:32 <pupnik> thanks for the discussion, then the whining about Zed's work and fees is quite pointless, since anyone can do the same build and release binaries for free.
Feb 09 19:15:36 <hrw> I mostly work on packaging software, patching it
Feb 09 19:16:03 <pH5> lardman_: yay, my hacked "pcm4" dsptask just blurted out the first sounds :)
Feb 09 19:16:14 <pupnik> cool
Feb 09 19:16:40 <shackan> pH5: wooohoo
Feb 09 19:30:49 * pupnik hands pH5 two ramen packets
Feb 09 20:22:01 <lardman_> pH5: cool, what did you hack to get it working?
Feb 09 20:24:23 <pH5> http://rafb.net/p/JiltBn92.html
Feb 09 20:25:00 <pH5> I should be embarassed to show that to anyone yet, but it's basically what pcm2.o does in some parts (or at least something similar)
Feb 09 20:25:10 <lardman_> :)
Feb 09 20:25:12 <lardman_> good stuff
Feb 09 20:26:09 <lardman_> so we can now output audio data from the dsp directly
Feb 09 20:31:32 <lardman_> back in a while, need to switch to WinXP for a bit :(
Feb 09 20:32:12 <Tama^2> pH5: I am interested, what is you goal? :)
Feb 09 20:34:25 <pH5> Tama^2: helping lardman|gone with the dsp-tremor codec so we can play oggs directly with the DSP.
Feb 09 20:35:38 * pupnik cheers
Feb 09 20:35:49 <Tama^2> ..and in the process you will figure out how to DMA audio to the codec directly from the DSP, right?
Feb 09 20:35:49 <pupnik> (and they ate one of robin's minstrels)
Feb 09 20:35:51 <pH5> pupnik's idea to port opl3 synth emulation to the DSP is neat, too.
Feb 09 20:36:18 <pH5> although that's probably a whole lot of work.
Feb 09 20:36:20 * Tama^2 think of a SID and MOD player ;)
Feb 09 20:36:29 <pupnik> i can think of three projects, no four, no five that could use that
Feb 09 20:36:41 <pupnik> dosbox, scummvm, freesci, exult, pentagram
Feb 09 20:36:52 <pupnik> many more i haven't thought of atm
Feb 09 20:37:05 <pupnik> and for the ogg playback, well there are tons
Feb 09 20:37:17 <Tama^2> opl3 is a FM synth used on the sound blaster, right?
Feb 09 20:37:37 <pupnik> yes opl2, opl3 are chipset types i think created by yamaha
Feb 09 20:37:40 <Tama^2> by yamaha
Feb 09 20:37:42 <Tama^2> ok
Feb 09 20:38:34 <pupnik> oh and mame
Feb 09 20:42:08 <Tama^2> is pH5  work based on reverse eng or on some existing code?
Feb 09 20:42:59 <Tama^2> I would not mind being involved if I can get my hands on a TI CC license
Feb 09 20:43:55 <pupnik> http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~dyna/adplug/  here's the gpl'd version of adplug btw pH5 - adlib opl2 / opl3 emulator
Feb 09 20:44:10 <bedboi> i have an english question: should i write  "something allows something else be performed" or "something allows something else to be performed"?
Feb 09 20:44:35 <pH5> Tama^2: RE of pcm2.o, the old osso-dsp-headers-0.1 and the gst-plugins-dsp0.1 sources.
Feb 09 20:44:49 <bedboi> my advisor always use the first one, but I always used the second one
Feb 09 20:44:53 <pH5> I think I have all the links at http://poh9.blogspot.com/2008/02/dsp.html
Feb 09 20:45:11 <pupnik> bedboi: 'to be' is more modern but the other is also used, i think
Feb 09 20:46:08 <bedboi> pupnik: thanks.
Feb 09 20:46:18 <bedboi> i always seen "to be"
Feb 09 20:46:20 <pH5> pupnik: cool. did you look at some different implementations? I saw that dosbox also has a synth included.
Feb 09 20:46:55 <Tama^2> thanks ph5
Feb 09 20:47:34 <pupnik> yes there are a lot of projects, and many are reverting back to the one i linked due to gpl issues
Feb 09 20:47:54 <pupnik> but there's a more fixed-poitn implementation which is tempting but i have to spend more time on this
Feb 09 20:48:11 <pupnik> at the moment it seems that forcing sb2 emulation gives a significant boost to dosbox speed
Feb 09 20:48:22 <pH5> very good, so that would be a good choice to base at least the API on. fixed point is crucial, of course.
Feb 09 20:48:24 <pupnik> but it's truly horrible, horrible to enable sb emulation in dosbox right now
Feb 09 20:49:05 <pupnik> somebody with mad skillz needs to sit down for a few weeks analyzing dosbox :)
Feb 09 20:49:35 <pH5> hehe.
Feb 09 20:50:36 <pupnik> we're talking dropping from ~1600 cycles on a N8x0 to 300-600 cycles when sound blaster is enabled (depending on game)
Feb 09 20:52:24 <pupnik> so anyway.  hopefully in 2008 the gods will smile on us and give the dosbox team an arm coder paladin
Feb 09 21:12:54 <Tama^2> I'm trying to download the DSP toolchain linked from the wiki but it is not available anymore
Feb 09 21:13:10 <Tama^2> I tried looking for it on TI's website but I cannot find it
Feb 09 21:13:12 <Tama^2> :/
Feb 09 21:19:42 <pH5> ow...
Feb 09 21:20:59 <pH5> looks like ti rearranged their site. I hope the toolchain didn't vanish
Feb 09 21:24:59 <fysa> anyone using synergy with OS2008?
Feb 09 21:25:07 <fysa> (and KDE?)
Feb 09 21:51:45 <lcuk_2> on native maemo screen, which SDL driver is selected to run with?  (I havent got device with me to test and google foo aint working)
Feb 09 22:05:34 <pH5> is the n810 really not capable of playing back 800x480 video hardware-wise, or are we just missing some armv6/dsp optimization in mplayer?
Feb 09 22:06:17 <pH5> mplayer tells me "[nokia770] Nokia 770/N800 hardware was not detected" here, but it uses Xv. is it supposed to do that on n810?
Feb 09 22:10:43 <lcuk_2> if (!(check_nokia_device_type("Nokia N800") || check_nokia_device_type("Nokia RX-44"))) {
Feb 09 22:10:43 <lcuk_2>             mp_msg(MSGT_VO, MSGL_INFO, "[nokia770] Nokia 770/N800/N810 hardware was not detected\n");
Feb 09 22:10:52 <lcuk_2> i was just reading that earlier
Feb 09 22:11:47 <lcuk_2> perhaps you are in a different zone than RX-44..   PLUS, it looks like you are using an old version...the one in cvs mentions the 810 in error report
Feb 09 22:12:38 <lcuk_2> that actually looks wrong anyway
Feb 09 22:14:11 <pH5> ok, I just got it from the feeds
Feb 09 22:15:09 * pH5 goes hunting for the source
Feb 09 22:15:39 <lcuk_2> https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/libvo/vo_nokia770.c?root=mplayer&view=markup
Feb 09 22:15:47 <lcuk_2> theres where i was reading, follow it backwards
Feb 09 22:17:02 <pH5> lcuk_2: thanks
Feb 09 22:19:25 <pupnik> fysa: yes i do
Feb 09 22:19:56 <pupnik> lcuk_2: /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0
Feb 09 22:20:13 <pupnik> pH5 can't be done
Feb 09 22:20:57 <pH5> pupnik: bandwidth problems or missing computing power?
Feb 09 22:21:11 <pupnik> both
Feb 09 22:21:16 <pH5> ugh :)
Feb 09 22:21:56 <fysa> where are you going to find 800480 video anyway?
Feb 09 22:21:59 <pupnik> high quality 400x240 transcodes look very good to me
Feb 09 22:22:06 * pH5 waits for cortex a8 based devices to show up
Feb 09 22:22:26 <GeneralAntilles> fysa, 640x480 is common and close enough.
Feb 09 22:22:26 <pupnik> i have no HD sources anyway
Feb 09 22:22:38 <fysa> 640x480 isn't as common as you may think. :)
Feb 09 22:22:45 <lcuk_2> pupnik, sorry might have misrepresented my request: inside the library, SDL_VideoInit() is called initialising the SDL_Videodevice jump table, which one does the n810 use?
Feb 09 22:22:47 <pH5> 400x240 is awfully blurred. even the hx4700 could do better.
Feb 09 22:23:10 <fysa> mplayer.
Feb 09 22:23:13 <lcuk_2> there is an x11, a directfb and others for specific device types
Feb 09 22:23:14 <fysa> you can do way better than 400x240.
Feb 09 22:23:40 <pupnik> x11 afaik, but i never mess with that in SDL programs
Feb 09 22:24:06 <fysa> 624x352 XVID @ 972Kbps w/143Kbps MP3 48KHz audio - works perfectly in mplayer.
Feb 09 22:24:10 <lcuk_2> i was just tracing my way through the call stack offline and seeing where it took me
Feb 09 22:24:33 <lcuk_2> i was following the UpdateRects down and for x11 it appears to be a null function
Feb 09 22:25:03 <lcuk_2> so i wondered if i had taken a wrong turning somewhere
Feb 09 22:25:09 <pH5> fysa: ah, that sounds a bit better. mp3 decompression is done on the arm in mplayer, right?
Feb 09 22:25:23 <fysa> here's another.
Feb 09 22:25:23 <pupnik> wait, you actually want to *understand* sdl?
Feb 09 22:25:30 <fysa> mythbusters.s06e01.hdtv.xvid-fqm.avi
Feb 09 22:25:39 <fysa> standard run-of-the-mill internet release.
Feb 09 22:25:43 <lcuk_2> no i want to go below it, and will follow the calls into x if i have to
Feb 09 22:25:57 <fysa> 624x352 @ 29.97fps, 947Kbps, 128Kbps MP3 audio.
Feb 09 22:25:58 <fysa> works perfectly.
Feb 09 22:26:03 <fysa> no transcoding necessary
Feb 09 22:26:05 <lcuk_2> just academic, im following the code and getting some understanding of it
Feb 09 22:26:12 <pupnik> cool.
Feb 09 22:26:28 <fysa> I only transcode from HD..
Feb 09 22:26:54 <fysa> mind you, the only way you will see that performance is if you are playing from SD -- and not streaming.
Feb 09 22:27:02 <pupnik> lcuk_2 i think mplayer is the sensei as far as fast screen updates
Feb 09 22:27:06 <fysa> network overhead is too high
Feb 09 22:27:52 <lcuk_2> yes i know, but i cant make a call and follow it, its not a clear path to something i can trace
Feb 09 22:29:49 <lcuk_2> with sdl ive got acual code and know that i am taking actual rectangles of data and sending them to places and can see that part working because ive got things in front of me and i know what is meant to happen...
Feb 09 22:30:18 <RS_Asleep> Anyone seen any discussions about the BBC iplayer using OS2008 at all. I can't see to find anything on google (unless I'm being daft and not sticking the word keywords in)
Feb 09 22:30:52 <lcuk_2> RS_Asleep, the flash one is tantalising isnt it.
Feb 09 22:31:18 <lcuk_2> so far thats the only one which they are doing for other systems, the actual windows app uses MS codecs if i remember rightly
Feb 09 22:31:28 <fysa> pupnik: you can see a mouse pointer with synergy?
Feb 09 22:31:30 <lcuk_2> they announced a mac version coming soon
Feb 09 22:31:32 <RS_Asleep> lcuk_2: Yeah... It's so jerky though :( Having said that, it gets further than both the Wii and PS3 browsers.
Feb 09 22:32:19 <elb> I've never used a flash video which played right on the n810
Feb 09 22:32:21 <lcuk_2> it might be nice to see if some of the offline youtube scanners can grab bbc content
Feb 09 22:32:33 <pupnik> fysa no
Feb 09 22:32:34 <elb> although that was all the talk of the town, for a while
Feb 09 22:32:46 <GeneralAntilles> Have you waited for YouTube videos to finish loading?
Feb 09 22:32:52 <lcuk_2> the best playback of flash video i have seen was on something like break or ejb, ill find the link when missus comes home
Feb 09 22:33:01 <RS_Asleep> Sadly I don't know much about flash :/
Feb 09 22:33:07 <lcuk_2> GeneralAntilles, the youtube videos are annoying
Feb 09 22:33:24 <GeneralAntilles> Er, yes, YouTube does suck.
Feb 09 22:33:29 <GeneralAntilles> But they run fine if you let them load.
Feb 09 22:33:45 <lcuk_2> they suck balls man
Feb 09 22:33:45 <pupnik> well thanks to solmumaha i have seen a true 3D 640x480 commercial game run on a tablet now
Feb 09 22:33:52 <RS_Asleep> I don't think the BBC iPlayer buffers though.
Feb 09 22:33:54 <fysa> what?
Feb 09 22:34:05 <pupnik> warzone2100..  amazing
Feb 09 22:34:20 <fysa> http://youtube.com/watch?v=UUwUDoC3vc4
Feb 09 22:34:23 <lcuk_2> RS_Asleep, the bbc player is also highres flash video, its very nice
Feb 09 22:34:46 <RS_Asleep> lcuk_2: I was about to ask if it was due to the video being very high quality
Feb 09 22:35:11 <fysa> pupnik: wha tis this?
Feb 09 22:35:17 <fysa> pupnik: on the IT?
Feb 09 22:35:19 <lcuk_2> since i am at a dead end for now iwthout my device i might have a look at what the iplayer is doing and see if i can snarf a stream
Feb 09 22:35:20 <pupnik> GemRB?  or the music?
Feb 09 22:35:25 <fysa> haha :)
Feb 09 22:35:31 <fysa> no, not that -- sorry.  warzone.
Feb 09 22:35:41 <fysa> warzone 2100 on the IT?
Feb 09 22:35:56 <elb> I l ike how the os2008 user site has about 4 pixels of horizontal scroll ;-)
Feb 09 22:36:09 <lcuk_2> if i can get a stream then it should be feasible to do something
Feb 09 22:36:34 <lcuk_2> i like how the internettablettalk forum has massive images by default so its slow as shit if you are using your internet tablet
Feb 09 22:37:01 <elb> yeah I use some 'mobile' theme
Feb 09 22:37:04 <elb> which is ... not ideal
Feb 09 22:37:07 <elb> but at least it's fast
Feb 09 22:37:28 <GeneralAntilles> Classic is plenty fast.
Feb 09 22:37:32 <lcuk_2> i might do some proxy fixing for my tablet
Feb 09 22:37:40 <lcuk_2> classic = the one with all images?
Feb 09 22:37:50 <GeneralAntilles> Classic = the old one.
Feb 09 22:37:57 <GeneralAntilles> and it works fine.
Feb 09 22:37:59 <elb> I should try that
Feb 09 22:38:00 <lcuk_2> default no cookies one?
Feb 09 22:38:10 <GeneralAntilles> I dunno
Feb 09 22:38:14 <GeneralAntilles> Use it and find out. :P
Feb 09 22:38:24 <lcuk_2> i need an account to do that...
Feb 09 22:38:34 <GeneralAntilles> ...
Feb 09 22:38:38 <RS_Asleep> The NASA TV stream is quite impressive mind on the n800 :D
Feb 09 22:41:50 <RS_Asleep> Something I said? :/
Feb 09 22:42:18 <lcuk_2> not at all, i just went looking over the bbc iplayer
Feb 09 22:42:35 <RS_Asleep> Ahh heh
Feb 09 22:43:30 <lcuk_2> you lot are gonna have to go bye bye, im gonna do some packet tracing :)
Feb 09 22:43:34 <lcuk_2> back later
Feb 09 22:45:39 <pupnik> bah i gotta increase the maemo vmdk disk size or something
Feb 09 22:46:11 <RS_Asleep> vmdk?
Feb 09 22:48:29 <GnutoN810> hi
Feb 09 22:49:06 <pupnik> huhu
Feb 09 22:50:25 <pupnik> the nokia internet tablets need more games porters.  i am spread too thin
Feb 09 22:50:58 <pupnik> i can help anyone who wants to get started
Feb 09 22:53:21 <shackan> who has time to play games anyway
Feb 09 22:55:35 <pH5> I bet pupnik doesn't have time to play either :)
Feb 09 23:09:29 <pupnik> building/porting/tweaking is more fun than playing
Feb 09 23:10:04 <solmumaha> i like packaging
Feb 09 23:32:41 <Navi> I like sleeping.
Feb 10 00:18:14 <Navi> Aw, no libvorbis?
Feb 10 00:18:56 <Null-P> I just compiled "Crawl" (rogue-like) for n810.  it runs but crashes/exits after a few seconds
Feb 10 00:19:01 <Null-P> is GDB the best tool to debug this?
Feb 10 00:19:11 <Null-P> (I'm not well versed in linux dev)
Feb 10 00:19:57 <Null-P> *sigh* i miss visual studio
Feb 10 00:20:32 <ssvb> Null-P: execute "echo 3 > /proc/cpu/alignment" as root, and try to run crawl again
Feb 10 00:20:48 <Null-P> interesting, ok
Feb 10 00:21:13 <Navi> :P
Feb 10 00:22:03 <ssvb> Null-P: if crawl has unaligned memory accesses, they will be fixed at runtime and reported in dmesg log
Feb 10 00:22:34 <Null-P> sh: /proc/cpu/alignment: No such file or directory
Feb 10 00:22:43 <Null-P> (this is in a VMware shell, BTW)
Feb 10 00:22:48 <Null-P> not on the actual device
Feb 10 00:22:53 <Null-P> though, I could try that as well
Feb 10 00:24:47 <ssvb> Null-P: what's VMware shell? are you not attempting to run crawl on N810?
Feb 10 00:25:17 <Null-P> I'm running Linux in a Virtual Machine on Windows.  Works quite well actually
Feb 10 00:25:22 <Null-P> I built crawl there
Feb 10 00:26:06 <Null-P> someone created a free/legal maemo environment for the free VMPlayer.  it's pretty much plug & play
Feb 10 00:26:13 <ssvb> in any case, the most interesting information for you is getting stack backtrace
Feb 10 00:26:33 <Null-P> yeah, I need to catch it at the moment it crashes
Feb 10 00:26:41 <ssvb> run "gdb crawl" or whatever the executable name is
Feb 10 00:27:03 <Null-P> ok, I've run it under gdb.  how can I catch the termination?
Feb 10 00:27:06 <ssvb> then type "r" gdb command
Feb 10 00:27:11 <Null-P> ok
Feb 10 00:27:19 <ssvb> after the game crashes, type "bt"
Feb 10 00:27:53 <Null-P> no dice.  "
Feb 10 00:28:04 <Null-P> "Program exited with code 0377"
Feb 10 00:28:08 <Null-P> bt says "no stack"
Feb 10 00:28:12 <Null-P> it's already dead & gone
Feb 10 00:28:26 <ssvb> you will get a stack backtrace, but the game should be compiled with debug information
Feb 10 00:28:39 <Null-P> I compiled debug.  I'll do it agian to be sure.
Feb 10 00:30:17 <Null-P> yeah, same thing.  maybe the makefile is screwed up?  it does have a "debug:" section
Feb 10 00:31:34 <Null-P> breaking in shows no symbols loaded either.  not a good sign
Feb 10 00:37:59 <ssvb> Null-P: if gdb reports that the program exited, it may have really exited for whatever reason and not crashed
Feb 10 00:38:25 <Null-P> ah, that could make sens
Feb 10 00:42:17 <ssvb> Null-P: you can try to set breakpoint on 'exit' function ("b exit" gdb command) and get backtrace if/when this function is reached
Feb 10 00:42:27 <Null-P> ahh, lemme try that
Feb 10 00:42:36 <fysa> aha slick.
Feb 10 00:42:46 <fysa> synergy + KDE = see the mouse ;)
Feb 10 00:43:16 <Null-P> grr, i have no symbols loaded it seems.  "function "exit" not defined"
Feb 10 00:43:29 <Null-P> is it a .sym file in linux?
Feb 10 00:45:40 <lcuk> hmmmmmmm gps has let us down :(   missus could not use it whilst out on trip and is unhappy
Feb 10 00:46:09 <ssvb> Null-P: just make sure that "-g" option is passed to gcc when compiling and linking program, you may need to modify makefile
Feb 10 00:46:10 <fysa> pupnik: you see that?
Feb 10 00:46:39 <fysa> pupnik: using penguinbait's KDE deb and updated mouse cursor, this installs/runs/works with full mouse/keyboard - https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=284&release_id=700
Feb 10 00:46:52 <fysa> so you can use your N800/N810 'dual head'
Feb 10 00:46:52 <Null-P>  $(MAKE) $(OTHER) -f $(MAKEFILE) debug EXTRA_FLAGS='-g -DFULLDEBUG -DWIZARD'
Feb 10 00:47:19 <fysa> and then X11 forward firefox to it :)
Feb 10 00:48:34 <pupnik> hail ssvb.  have you perhaps someday a tiny sdl demo to illustrate fast rgb565 blitting?
Feb 10 00:49:12 <pupnik> fysa: i will look thanks
Feb 10 00:53:01 <ssvb> pupnik: hi, rgb565 blitting will be slower than yuv420 blitting (16-bits per pixel vs. 12-bit per pixel)
Feb 10 00:54:05 <ssvb> pupnik: direct framebuffer access is faster, but it can cause "garbage on screen" problem when switching between applications
Feb 10 00:55:02 <pupnik> yes but user will be forbidden from this
Feb 10 00:55:27 <pupnik> ssvb, but it would be much work to convert SDL buffers to yuv420, no?
Feb 10 00:55:51 <ssvb> pupnik: yes, it will
Feb 10 00:56:56 <ssvb> pupnik: but there are special cases (grayscale, or 256 color paletted image) when converting to yuv420 is quite fast
Feb 10 00:57:34 <ssvb> pupnik: AFAIK quake2 port uses YUV overlay, there is a thread on ITT
Feb 10 00:57:46 <pupnik> ssvb: this is straight sdl @ 800x480... http://pupnik.de/newvox  try it
Feb 10 00:57:50 <pupnik> yes
Feb 10 00:57:59 <monarch> hello all
Feb 10 00:58:02 <pupnik> i will look into it for the 256 color case
Feb 10 00:58:29 <monarch> just got a new 4Gb card for my n810
Feb 10 00:58:37 <monarch> is it supposed to click in or something
Feb 10 00:58:46 <Null-P> yes
Feb 10 00:58:54 <Null-P> you hae ot push it fairly far into the device
Feb 10 00:58:59 <Null-P> 1/3 inch maybe
Feb 10 00:59:54 <|tbb|> anyone knows if and how its possible to save streams which are playing by vagalume player (on tablet)?
Feb 10 01:00:01 <monarch> i was afraid of that, my big fingers aren't making it easy
Feb 10 01:00:40 <ssvb> pupnik: looks nice, are you trying to make it faster?
Feb 10 01:00:43 <monarch> ok, thanks got it
Feb 10 01:01:07 <pupnik> ssvb yes!
Feb 10 01:01:23 <pupnik> the pixel doubled version runs 65 fps but i like full 800x480
Feb 10 01:02:44 <Null-P> which header contains strlen()?  string.h?
Feb 10 01:02:45 <pupnik> so i look into pipeline's tricks
Feb 10 01:03:10 <pupnik> you can grep -ri /usr/include in scratchbox for whatever strings you need
Feb 10 01:03:25 <Null-P> okay.  thanks.
Feb 10 01:06:13 <ssvb> pupnik: have you tried to use oprofile by the way?
Feb 10 01:06:59 <pupnik> not yet, :/ have you?
Feb 10 01:07:42 <ssvb> pupnik: yes, it works great, and is quite easy to set up
Feb 10 01:09:02 <Null-P> holy crap, Crawl works!
Feb 10 01:09:03 <pupnik> i got -fprofile-generate and -fprofile-use to work apparently,
Feb 10 01:09:11 <pupnik> not sure about any benefits
Feb 10 01:09:23 <Null-P> at least in x86 it does..
Feb 10 01:10:12 <ssvb> Null-P: what was the problem?
Feb 10 01:10:41 <Null-P> I"m not fully sure.  I found a different make file - was using .lnx, used .bsd.
Feb 10 01:10:53 <Null-P> didn't compile clean but just needed a few small bug fixes to make it compile
Feb 10 01:11:18 <ssvb> pupnik: gcc shoul be able to generate better code with profile guided optimizations, at least theoretically
Feb 10 01:12:49 <ssvb> pupnik: anyway, information about installing oprofile can be found here: http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/oprofile/ (it provides very nice and detailed statistics, useful when deciding what needs to be optimized)
Feb 10 01:12:54 <Null-P> things like "Strlen() not defined" and "NULL" having no value.
Feb 10 01:13:21 <Null-P> we use PGO on Xbox and it helps a ton in many cases
Feb 10 01:16:18 <pupnik> ok ty
Feb 10 01:22:39 <ssvb> pupnik: ~20fps may be a realistic performance for 800x480 rgb565 mode, when using yuv420 color format, it can become 1/3 faster, reducing resolution also helps
Feb 10 01:23:21 <Null-P> what's the recommended filesystem for a 4gb MiniSD?  just plain old Fat32?
Feb 10 01:23:39 <pupnik> ssvb yeah i'm kind of surprised that newvox gets ~ 22fps
Feb 10 01:33:40 <Null-P> later guys, thanks for the help
Feb 10 01:35:14 <ssvb> pupnik: do you have newvox sources with 800x480 resolution and FPS counter?
Feb 10 01:47:38 <Navi> Huh, I can't get sound to work off of the Maemo SDK
Feb 10 01:49:28 <|tbb|> gnite all
Feb 10 01:49:32 <Navi> night
Feb 10 01:50:56 <Navi> ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:864:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave
Feb 10 02:10:11 <Navi> Fixed it.
Feb 10 02:23:12 <leif__> anyone else seeing nothing but a login page at http://maemo.org/
Feb 10 02:23:12 <leif__> ?
Feb 10 02:23:56 <leif__> nevermind, it works again now
Feb 10 02:37:32 <pupnik> Navi you have sound from maemo SDk?  since when is that possible?
Feb 10 02:38:08 <Navi> It's not possible?
Feb 10 02:42:24 <goat|work> is there a specific channel for general usage questions about the n800, or can I ask in here?
Feb 10 02:42:32 <GeneralAntilles> This is it.
Feb 10 02:42:49 <Navi> GeneralAntilles, liar.
Feb 10 02:42:58 <GeneralAntilles> No lies.
Feb 10 02:43:04 * Navi hugs GeneralAntilles
Feb 10 02:43:04 <goat|work> I'm updating a bunch of packages, is there an equivelent to apt-get upgrade
Feb 10 02:43:13 <GeneralAntilles> This is the everything-maemo-ITOS-NIT IRC channel.
Feb 10 02:43:20 <goat|work> cause it seems that I have to update everything individually
Feb 10 02:43:27 <GeneralAntilles> apt-get upgrade
Feb 10 02:43:30 <GeneralAntilles> Do it in xterm.
Feb 10 02:43:32 <Navi> Well, you could ^^
Feb 10 02:43:34 <goat|work> yeah? nice
Feb 10 02:43:40 <goat|work> thanks much
Feb 10 02:43:44 <GeneralAntilles> Sure.
Feb 10 02:43:48 <Navi> I can't keep up with GeneralAntilles's awesome fast typing speed
Feb 10 02:44:03 <pupnik> i wouldn't apt-get upgrade unless i knew it were safe
Feb 10 02:44:42 <goat|work> so its not generally a good idea to upgrade the packages to latest?
Feb 10 02:45:08 <pupnik> let's just say it has been a problem in the past.  i don't know what your OS is, and what the safety level is.
Feb 10 02:45:32 <Navi> breakage iz teh hax
Feb 10 02:45:33 <goat|work> i c,  its OS2007 for now
Feb 10 02:46:26 <GeneralAntilles> First step is to flash OS2008. :P
Feb 10 02:47:02 <Navi> pupnik, Well, I built and ran an SDL app, sound works in there. I assume it's just using my system's alsa :P
Feb 10 02:47:22 <goat|work> heh, ok... thanks again folks
Feb 10 02:47:30 <pupnik> cool.  what SDK are you running Navi?  and what sdl app?
Feb 10 02:47:45 <Navi> Maemo SDK, the regular one. Blobwars
Feb 10 02:48:07 <pupnik> gregale, bora or chinnok?  vmware image or native install?
Feb 10 02:48:46 <Navi> chinook
Feb 10 02:48:50 <Navi> native install
Feb 10 02:48:53 <pupnik> scratchbox i386 or arm?
Feb 10 02:48:58 <Navi> i386
Feb 10 02:49:05 <pupnik> ok thanks
Feb 10 02:49:23 * Navi didn't expect that many questions O_o
Feb 10 02:49:41 <pupnik> i'd like to try it here, ty
Feb 10 02:49:46 <Navi> Ah :D
Feb 10 02:49:55 <goat|work> sudo password by default?
Feb 10 02:50:11 <Navi> I don't think you need it
Feb 10 02:50:27 <goat|work> apt-get upgrade requires root level
Feb 10 02:50:33 <goat|work> and its asking for a sudo password
Feb 10 02:50:40 <goat|work> <blank> didn't work
Feb 10 02:50:51 <GeneralAntilles> rootme
Feb 10 02:51:11 <goat|work> oh, thats a package right?
Feb 10 02:51:22 <elb> that's the default root password
Feb 10 02:51:34 <goat|work> ohh, hahah
Feb 10 02:53:24 <Navi> maemo doesn't have a windows-native sdk?
Feb 10 02:55:47 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Feb 10 02:58:00 <fysa> X11 forwarding Firefox via wifi LAN is surprisingly resposnive.
Feb 10 02:58:05 <fysa> responsive.
Feb 10 02:58:25 <fysa> faster than the built-in browser anyway..
Feb 10 02:59:20 <Navi> X11 forwarding is great.
Feb 10 02:59:28 <GeneralAntilles> I was building it from fink the other day to try it out.
Feb 10 02:59:28 <pupnik> do you do that over ssh?
Feb 10 02:59:31 <GeneralAntilles> Too many deps. :<
Feb 10 02:59:33 <Navi> pupnik, yes
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Feb 10 02:59:57 2008