**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 19 02:59:57 2008 Mar 19 03:01:09 rm_you: you actually got an x86 box?!?!?! Mar 19 03:01:13 GeneralAntilles: maybe this will make up for my n800 being retarded >_> Mar 19 03:01:22 lol yes Mar 19 03:01:29 retarded is a bad word.. Mar 19 03:01:36 more like disabled Mar 19 03:01:38 ;) Mar 19 03:01:49 "physically challenged" Mar 19 03:01:52 Haha Mar 19 03:02:06 You shouldn't abuse the poor thing so much. Mar 19 03:02:11 disabled is a bad word... more like KotCzarny Mar 19 03:02:17 ^ troll Mar 19 03:02:18 rm_you: what did you get? Mar 19 03:02:29 Toshiba Portege M700 Mar 19 03:02:45 it's a convertible Mar 19 03:02:58 active or passive pen? Mar 19 03:03:01 * rm_you puts the top down and turns up the beats Mar 19 03:03:02 both Mar 19 03:03:12 both? how's that possible? Mar 19 03:03:19 ask it, not me Mar 19 03:03:27 i can poke it with my figer, or hover the pen Mar 19 03:03:29 either works Mar 19 03:03:31 nice Mar 19 03:03:41 my old motion tablet was only the radio bits Mar 19 03:03:48 is there a battery in the pen? Mar 19 03:03:51 my x41t could be used only with pen Mar 19 03:04:00 * rm_you throws his LE1600 in a ditch Mar 19 03:04:40 Oh, sorry... I think I misunderstood you. The pen is passive, I think... What I'm thinking of is called something else. Mar 19 03:04:54 ah Mar 19 03:04:59 That the screen is both touch sensitive and uses a radio-bits pen Mar 19 03:05:16 so no battery in there? Mar 19 03:05:28 no. Mar 19 03:05:43 the AAAA in the old TC1000's were irritating Mar 19 03:05:58 ratshack is the only local place that had them Mar 19 03:09:37 what exactly is your definition of passive/active pen? Mar 19 03:11:57 rm_you: what are you going to do with n800? Mar 19 03:11:58 :> Mar 19 03:12:13 Trash it Mar 19 03:13:27 Seriously Mar 19 03:13:27 It's garbage Mar 19 03:13:28 throw it out. Mar 19 03:13:58 trolls at their finest Mar 19 03:15:35 lol Mar 19 03:15:50 well Mar 19 03:16:04 if it doesnt fix itself with another flash, i'll have to buy another one >_> Mar 19 03:16:17 Under warranty? Mar 19 03:16:23 doubt it Mar 19 03:16:24 (I'm sure we've covered this) Mar 19 03:16:41 Nokia's is 1-year, right? Mar 19 03:17:29 i bought it last july... Mar 19 03:17:35 but it was from a guy on ITT Mar 19 03:17:37 so, used Mar 19 03:18:14 maybe I could poke quim about giving me a deal on a refurb or something :P Mar 19 03:18:22 lol Mar 19 03:18:58 Haha Mar 19 03:19:01 Not his area. :P Mar 19 03:20:15 >_> Mar 19 03:20:42 Nokia should really just GIVE me a new one... Mar 19 03:20:51 I'm practically a frickin salesman Mar 19 03:21:04 How many? :P Mar 19 03:21:05 I've sold three of the things in the last month >_> Mar 19 03:21:13 Pfft Mar 19 03:21:19 rm_you: start selling them yourself Mar 19 03:21:21 8 Mar 19 03:21:22 lol Mar 19 03:21:23 that way you will profit Mar 19 03:21:24 :) Mar 19 03:21:37 and you will be able to buy yourself one Mar 19 03:21:38 :) Mar 19 03:21:40 GeneralAntilles: woot :) you should get commission Mar 19 03:21:59 People tell me Apple should give me one, too. Mar 19 03:22:04 I don't know how many of those I've sold. Mar 19 03:22:08 Yeah :) Mar 19 03:22:09 :) Mar 19 03:22:16 * GeneralAntilles tends to sell things he likes. Mar 19 03:22:31 Commission would be awesome :) Mar 19 03:22:51 I'm just pulling for a discount code for the N900. Mar 19 03:22:59 lol Mar 19 03:23:01 * Navi shrugs :) Mar 19 03:23:35 Start threating people to put your name on their releases Mar 19 03:23:35 :) Mar 19 03:23:45 Haha Mar 19 03:23:50 I've already got one! Mar 19 03:24:01 Heh, mmk :) Mar 19 03:25:10 Pushing that last mile to breach 300 on ITT. Mar 19 03:25:40 But yeah, you've pushed what, the majority of your clan to buy an N8X0? :) Mar 19 03:26:01 Haha Mar 19 03:26:14 6? Mar 19 03:26:22 Plus me :) Mar 19 03:26:36 :) <- Fucking smileys Mar 19 03:26:38 6 . . . 4 rather Mar 19 03:26:43 So no. Mar 19 03:26:53 * GeneralAntilles kidnaps Navi and forces him to apply. Mar 19 03:27:01 >_> Mar 19 03:27:02 5 counting myself. Mar 19 03:27:37 Six counting me Mar 19 03:28:03 You should count yourself four times Mar 19 03:28:15 I am co-leader. :P Mar 19 03:28:22 You have like 770 x2 and 800 x2 Mar 19 03:28:29 Nah, down one N800. Mar 19 03:28:33 Though it's still in the family. Mar 19 03:28:33 Oh? Mar 19 03:28:41 I see Mar 19 03:28:42 Gifted it to my sister for her birthday. Mar 19 03:28:47 woo \o/ Mar 19 03:29:03 aw, gp32x boards are dowm Mar 19 03:29:04 down Mar 19 03:29:14 He friends got her a goddamn Nano Mar 19 03:29:27 So my secret plan to turn it into her primary mobile device failed. Mar 19 03:29:33 the ugly fat current generation one? Mar 19 03:29:36 Yeah Mar 19 03:29:40 "fat" Mar 19 03:30:05 :D Mar 19 03:30:39 I'd have sold it if the N800 had video out. :\ Mar 19 03:32:16 the Nano/classic seems to be the only option for a video out mobile device Mar 19 03:32:44 N900 better have video out. Mar 19 03:33:03 pandora Mar 19 03:33:05 and the feature I've wanted for fucking ages Mar 19 03:33:08 a kitchen sink Mar 19 03:33:12 Hells yeah. Mar 19 03:33:12 big one, numerous taps Mar 19 03:33:19 filtration system, the works Mar 19 03:33:24 video out is handy for sharing digital pictures Mar 19 03:33:26 ds3, the GP2X has video out :/ Mar 19 03:33:27 With a disposeall Mar 19 03:33:32 GeneralAntilles: right! Mar 19 03:33:34 Navi: the GPX2 is MMU less right? Mar 19 03:33:40 Better be stainless, too. Mar 19 03:33:43 of course Mar 19 03:33:49 although silver's good too Mar 19 03:33:58 pure silver, none of this silver coated crap Mar 19 03:34:00 MOEN or bust Mar 19 03:34:14 teflon coated Mar 19 03:34:22 nah, teflon = evil Mar 19 03:34:24 ds3, there's a hack that a handful of proggies use to have mmu Mar 19 03:34:40 makes a nice dress for a bullet don't you think? Mar 19 03:35:08 I prefer my bullets silver coated but then I don't like werewolves ;) Mar 19 03:35:20 I Mar 19 03:35:28 am a fan of matte black :P Mar 19 03:35:40 how directional are microwaves? Mar 19 03:35:41 'course, pupnik. :P Mar 19 03:35:50 Depends on their age, pupnik. Mar 19 03:35:58 could you put a microwave oven device in front of a parabolic dish and kill people at range? Mar 19 03:35:59 But "fairly" Mar 19 03:36:05 No Mar 19 03:36:08 It doesn't have the power. Mar 19 03:36:11 You'd make them vomit Mar 19 03:36:17 or really nauseated Mar 19 03:36:22 but it wouldn't kill them. Mar 19 03:36:29 To kill them, you'd have to boil their insides. Mar 19 03:36:35 Which requires a non-trivial amount of power. Mar 19 03:36:44 oki Mar 19 03:36:54 How long would it take you to cook a 20lbs turkey in a microwave (assuming you had one that fit). Mar 19 03:37:10 But mounting a microwave projector on the end of something would make for awesome crowd control. Mar 19 03:37:27 some guys in germany died from radar dish burns Mar 19 03:37:27 * Navi finds it odd that GeneralAntilles would know so much about this Mar 19 03:37:39 Hehe, Navi. Mar 19 03:37:48 s/would know/knows/ Mar 19 03:37:50 I worked in the strangest place for most of high school. Mar 19 03:37:55 GeneralAntilles works for the CIA Mar 19 03:37:57 We talked about some weird shit. Mar 19 03:38:08 Frequently with people who actually knew what they were talking about. <_< Mar 19 03:38:09 the democratization of force is in the interest of humanity Mar 19 03:38:10 see? CIA Mar 19 03:38:17 Bookstore, doc. :P Mar 19 03:38:45 the open source principle Mar 19 03:39:39 /j #latex Mar 19 03:39:43 Amen, pupnik. Mar 19 03:39:49 hi again Mar 19 03:40:24 where can i reinstall original mediaplayer back fvrom, aside of reflashing? Mar 19 03:41:44 Is there a way I can stop my nokia 770 from powering down just temporary Mar 19 03:42:01 (Its plugged in and I am messing with it over ssh) Mar 19 03:43:52 Powering down? Mar 19 03:44:04 well disconnecting my ssh session Mar 19 03:44:15 going into standby it is Mar 19 03:45:18 Wifi idle time set? Mar 19 03:46:01 Its set to unlimited Mar 19 03:46:54 Dunno Mar 19 03:46:58 It shouldn't be disconnecting. Mar 19 03:47:24 So normally the screen would just blank but any connections stay open Mar 19 03:47:26 ? Mar 19 03:48:33 That's correct Mar 19 03:48:45 Well, cover should kill wifi on OS2006 and earlier. Mar 19 03:50:22 I will try it without the cover for a bit Mar 19 03:50:56 I don't recall if it's a toggleable setting. Mar 19 03:51:07 * GeneralAntilles hasn't used OS2006 for almost a year now. Mar 19 03:57:36 mmmm Mar 19 03:57:37 video out Mar 19 03:57:38 <3 Mar 19 04:57:43 pupnik: huh Mar 19 04:58:16 just a chance for you Mar 19 04:58:31 chance? Mar 19 04:58:33 o.O Mar 19 04:59:26 no subtitles Mar 19 04:59:27 :) Mar 19 05:06:49 keep it KotCzarny. it's valuable Mar 19 05:07:07 i don't even know what it is Mar 19 05:07:12 or who it is Mar 19 05:07:23 very old music Mar 19 05:07:35 they're some farmers from Laos Mar 19 05:08:51 ok, i will wget it Mar 19 05:10:09 I want somebody to find some sort of musical notation from the Greeks. Mar 19 05:11:53 ok. I knew I would eat the built in storage pretty fast....didnt think it would be 27 hours after I unboxed my N800! Is there any way to use the memory card I have installed under the rear cover as more storage for installing apps? Mar 19 05:12:15 probably Mar 19 05:12:18 it's a 1GB SD Mar 19 05:12:32 yea, google "maemo boot mmc" Mar 19 05:12:35 consider booting from mmc Mar 19 05:12:38 er, no Mar 19 05:12:40 yeah Mar 19 05:12:41 Don't do that Mar 19 05:12:46 look for extending the rootfs to sd Mar 19 05:12:52 Dual booting isn't a bad idea Mar 19 05:12:56 just not really what you're looking for here Mar 19 05:13:05 wont that destroy the cadr pretty fast with all the write cycles? Mar 19 05:13:09 I'd delete the 35MB of manuals and 20MB of media that it ships with first, though. Mar 19 05:13:22 WorkingOnWise, I don't know a single person who has destroyed a flash card using it. Mar 19 05:13:34 workingonwise: and how is the difference between builtin flash and external ? Mar 19 05:13:36 way ahead of you there GeneralAntilles...lol Mar 19 05:14:09 on removing the media and manuals.... Mar 19 05:14:17 sdhc cards are pretty cheap Mar 19 05:14:21 ^ Mar 19 05:14:35 Truthfully, even if you did manage to wear out a flash card Mar 19 05:14:47 what i know is only what I have read...never used a mc for any intensive writes to see it happen... Mar 19 05:14:51 1gb sd cards are more than cheap Mar 19 05:14:52 :> Mar 19 05:14:54 they'll be so cheap to replace (with one several orders of magnitude larger than the one that failed) by the time you do that it's not really an issue. Mar 19 05:15:07 flash memory is much more durable than it used to be Mar 19 05:15:16 They're very good at write balancing, anyway. Mar 19 05:15:41 My recommendation is just to use the card as you want to use it. Mar 19 05:15:41 not concerned about the cost, its wasting part of my system and having a fubar tablet... Mar 19 05:15:54 ? Mar 19 05:16:00 if you boot from sd card Mar 19 05:16:03 The SD cards are replaceable. Mar 19 05:16:12 So having them fail wont brick the device. Mar 19 05:16:12 how do you waste your system? Mar 19 05:16:43 the idea is that you don't use drives that are not mounted Mar 19 05:16:53 if most of my apps are on the sd card, and it dies from too many write cycles, most of my apps go with the card... Mar 19 05:17:17 workingonwise: you can backup on regular intervals (1 month? :) Mar 19 05:17:23 Meh, we're talking years down the road Mar 19 05:17:41 they are THAT reliable nowadays? Mar 19 05:17:46 lol Mar 19 05:17:51 quite Mar 19 05:17:57 Pretty much Mar 19 05:18:05 guys Mar 19 05:18:28 ladies Mar 19 05:18:31 my mplayer is playing very slow mp4 files why? Mar 19 05:19:00 too slow pc? Mar 19 05:19:05 Something's eating CPU Mar 19 05:19:06 on n800? Mar 19 05:19:10 MP4s are too heavy? Mar 19 05:19:15 what codec is it using? Mar 19 05:19:21 yes on my n800 os2008 Mar 19 05:19:23 so, what about performance compared to running the system totaly from the built in flash? any diferance? Mar 19 05:19:33 it can play avi files good but for mp4 no? Mar 19 05:19:35 Italodance: can you post a sample of the video file? Mar 19 05:19:41 i can try to help you Mar 19 05:19:47 well Mar 19 05:19:49 or at least more info about it Mar 19 05:19:52 WorkingOnWise: depends on the card you use Mar 19 05:19:55 resolution, FPS, codec, bitrate Mar 19 05:19:59 Not noticeable, WorkingOnWise. Mar 19 05:20:00 but you won't notice it Mar 19 05:20:17 Italodance, .mp4 implies AAC audio, which is a bit heavier to decode than mp3 Mar 19 05:20:21 WorkingOnWise: how much stuff did you install!? Mar 19 05:20:24 i installed libmad0_0.15.1b_2.1_armel.deb (74k) Mar 19 05:20:25 libogg0_1.1.3_2_armel.deb (9k) Mar 19 05:20:25 libtheora0_0.0.0.alpha7.dfsg_1.1_armel.deb (83k) Mar 19 05:20:25 mplayer_1.0rc1_maemo.24.n8x0_armel.deb (2.3MB) Mar 19 05:20:40 WorkingOnWise: i install a shit-ton of stuff and i still have about 30mb left Mar 19 05:21:08 i might recommend checking to see if any programs you installed are storing data on the internal flash and shouldnt be Mar 19 05:21:10 n800 os2008 media player can read mp4 but mplaye can't read it and slow Mar 19 05:21:43 WorkingOnWise: there are some docs/animations you can remove to free up space Mar 19 05:21:48 Italodance: so, would it be possible to post the file somewhere so i can test? Mar 19 05:21:51 few megs of them Mar 19 05:21:52 :) Mar 19 05:22:00 KotCzarny: i think he said he already did that :/ Mar 19 05:22:08 oh Mar 19 05:22:09 :) Mar 19 05:22:24 rm_you wait Mar 19 05:22:29 heh, well... maybe if we tell him to do that enough times, it will become true :P Mar 19 05:23:02 I have 15.9MB of device memory, out of 256. except the rowser, I cant imagine anything eating space yet. I have only used it for like 6 hours.... Mar 19 05:23:04 * Mousey sounds fun Mar 19 05:23:34 does dpkg/apt list installed package sizes? Mar 19 05:23:35 WorkingOnWise: so wait... it won't let you install more things? or are you talking about RAM? Mar 19 05:23:42 dpkg will Mar 19 05:24:03 dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Installed-Size} ${Package}\n' | sort -nr | less Mar 19 05:24:15 :) Mar 19 05:24:23 it wont let me install more things...well it will now, I cleared 12MB to get the 15.9.. Mar 19 05:24:28 oooo Mar 19 05:24:29 do Mar 19 05:24:32 apt-get clean Mar 19 05:24:35 rm_you do u want my video mp4 file or ...? Mar 19 05:24:43 it will flush all the downloaded deb files Mar 19 05:24:46 WorkingOnWise: btw. have you enabled swap? Mar 19 05:24:47 Italodance, it wouldn't be h.264, would it? Mar 19 05:24:51 (ie. virtual memory) Mar 19 05:24:53 will my n810 call me names if i put /usr in /mnt/mmc2? Mar 19 05:24:59 GeneralAntilles: i was thinking that :/ Mar 19 05:25:01 KotCzarny: I did...128MB Mar 19 05:25:07 now Mar 19 05:25:09 wom-: mw roo Mar 19 05:25:14 KotCzarny: that went on the mmc didnt it? Mar 19 05:25:15 WorkingOnWise: did you put that on the SD card? Mar 19 05:25:21 woah, that did NOT work Mar 19 05:25:22 but i wonder if it's on internal flash or sd card Mar 19 05:25:25 * Mousey eats crow Mar 19 05:25:50 i'll clean apt and check the swap location... Mar 19 05:25:53 Italodance: yes Mar 19 05:26:02 wow: try disabling it and tell us if it freed space on internal flash Mar 19 05:26:03 :) Mar 19 05:26:05 WorkingOnWise: just do apt-get clean and then see Mar 19 05:26:18 erm. on builtin flash Mar 19 05:26:19 :) Mar 19 05:26:23 * report back! :P Mar 19 05:27:52 ok get it :D Mar 19 05:28:22 :) Mar 19 05:28:30 Italodance: DSL? Mar 19 05:28:37 yes adsl Mar 19 05:28:41 heh k Mar 19 05:28:43 but slow :( Mar 19 05:28:56 cause my download caps at 5MBps :) Mar 19 05:29:02 that's ... megabytes. not bits. Mar 19 05:29:09 <3 college inet Mar 19 05:30:14 rm_you my mp4 files are converted by Internet Tablet Video Converter Mar 19 05:30:45 infact it was an avi file then in converted to mp4 with Internet Tablet Video Converter Mar 19 05:30:59 that my media player can read and show slaller size Mar 19 05:31:04 *smaller Mar 19 05:31:26 hrm Mar 19 05:31:29 you use windows? Mar 19 05:31:46 If you want to convert files into *THE BEST* format Mar 19 05:32:20 you can install ActivePERL for windows and use my modified 770-encode (I call it 800-encode) Mar 19 05:32:45 I'm fairly confident that there are no better settings for encoding video. Mar 19 05:32:50 (for n800) Mar 19 05:32:58 :) Mar 19 05:33:21 rm_you yes i have xp sp2 Mar 19 05:33:43 ActivePERL what is it? Mar 19 05:34:11 perl for windows Mar 19 05:34:18 in a short Mar 19 05:34:19 ;) Mar 19 05:34:54 what it can do? Mar 19 05:35:08 it encodes video Mar 19 05:35:17 :P Mar 19 05:35:25 for my windows? Mar 19 05:35:31 lol Mar 19 05:35:33 for your n800 Mar 19 05:35:35 lol Mar 19 05:35:41 wow Mar 19 05:35:46 so please send it to me Mar 19 05:36:48 http://downloads.activestate.com/ActivePerl/Windows/5.10/ActivePerl-5.10.0.1002-MSWin32-x86-283697.msi Mar 19 05:36:54 install that first Mar 19 05:37:21 yes but it is a video converter? Mar 19 05:37:46 that is a programming language Mar 19 05:37:56 you need it to run the program i'm going to send you Mar 19 05:38:07 tell me again exactly what it can do on my windows xp? Mar 19 05:38:16 aha i got it Mar 19 05:38:20 rm_you, what bitrate? Mar 19 05:38:30 1400 Mar 19 05:38:44 rm_you which tool do u have? Mar 19 05:39:02 770-encode Mar 19 05:39:08 it's a PERL script Mar 19 05:39:15 it can work for my n800 os2008? Mar 19 05:39:19 yes Mar 19 05:39:22 err... Mar 19 05:39:26 ok. I did gainroot then apt-get clean . No change in device storage. I removed swap and gained 128MB on the mmc and nothing on the device, so I put it back. I'm still at 15.9 MB free. Mar 19 05:39:33 and tell me can it convert MKV h264 files to mp4...? Mar 19 05:39:42 cool Mar 19 05:39:42 it runs on your windows XP, and converts the videos like the one you used just now Mar 19 05:39:47 Did you up the resolution? Mar 19 05:39:52 WorkingOnWise: how about that dpkg line rm_you suggested? Mar 19 05:39:53 ok wait Mar 19 05:40:02 GeneralAntilles: essentially: n800 => { abitrate => 128, vbitrate => 1400, width => 400, height => 240, fps => 30 }, Mar 19 05:40:15 but also Mar 19 05:40:25 forced two-pass and experimental Mar 19 05:40:38 and disabled autocropping Mar 19 05:40:55 (original-aspect) Mar 19 05:41:07 KotCzarny: I didnt see that....I'll scroll up... Mar 19 05:41:22 dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Installed-Size} ${Package}\n' | sort -nr | less Mar 19 05:42:37 rm_you by the way do u know an encode file can read on my n800 for mplayer mp4 files? Mar 19 05:42:54 rm_you, I've had very good success with 5xx horizontal stuff Mar 19 05:42:59 in the 800-1100Kbps range Mar 19 05:43:09 hrm Mar 19 05:43:50 dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Installed-Size} ${Package}\n' | sort -nr | less Mar 19 05:43:52 Minimal framedrop on medium-action stuff untranscoded Mar 19 05:43:55 i tried upping the resolution, but the pixel doubling on the n800 in hardware is so good that it never passed the awesome of just having a very high bitrate Mar 19 05:44:30 :) Mar 19 05:44:40 rm_you yes? Mar 19 05:45:04 Italodance: what? i didnt understand your question, sorry Mar 19 05:45:16 Arbitrary scaling is free on the N800 Mar 19 05:45:43 Why are you focused on using mp4 files? avi files encoded with xvid work MUCH better Mar 19 05:45:56 rm_you do u know an encode file for play mplayer mp4 files on n800? Mar 19 05:46:06 GeneralAntilles: but past a certain number, the video pipeline doesnt have enough bandwidth to handle it Mar 19 05:46:11 Right Mar 19 05:46:17 5xx horizontal is that number. ;) Mar 19 05:46:20 GeneralAntilles: do you understand Italodance's question? Mar 19 05:46:31 where do i get less from? Mar 19 05:46:32 GeneralAntilles: yeah... still... didnt see enough improvement to merit it. Mar 19 05:46:35 and trust me, i tried Mar 19 05:46:44 wow: use 'more' instead of 'less' Mar 19 05:46:45 "trust" . . . never! :P Mar 19 05:46:49 WorkingOnWise: dont worry about it... replace "less" with "more" Mar 19 05:46:55 ok Mar 19 05:46:55 The big benefit for me is not having to transcode or reencode Mar 19 05:46:56 so, meh. Mar 19 05:47:07 rm_you well i always use Internet Tablet Video Converter and it can only convert to mp4 Mar 19 05:47:09 GeneralAntilles: I have a transcoding pipeline set up :P Mar 19 05:47:23 Italodance: which is why i said i don't like it :) Mar 19 05:47:30 because mp4 doesnt work well Mar 19 05:47:36 Yeah, yeah. Mar 19 05:47:40 But CPU time isn't free. Mar 19 05:47:44 it is for me Mar 19 05:47:53 rm_you: i have played 720x448 @ 24fps (~700kbit) on my n800 :) Mar 19 05:47:58 ok wait friend i am downloading active perl.. Mar 19 05:48:03 * rm_you has 120 CPUs set up in a botnet, awaiting his command Mar 19 05:48:22 KotCzarny: and did it melt? :P Mar 19 05:48:25 nope Mar 19 05:48:29 care to share? Mar 19 05:48:30 played quite well Mar 19 05:48:38 KotCzarny: can you send me that file? :P Mar 19 05:48:45 * Brains is sure that KotCzarny has documented it somewhere for posterity. Mar 19 05:48:48 and only minimal framedrop on complicated scenes Mar 19 05:48:59 ick, framedrop >_> Mar 19 05:49:14 everything i play would be framedropping constantly then Mar 19 05:49:15 rm_you: but just in a really expensive scenes Mar 19 05:49:16 :) Mar 19 05:49:29 all my stuff is *really* high motion AMVs Mar 19 05:49:37 rm_you: what am I loking for in the output of dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Installed-Size} ${Package}\n' | sort -nr | more ? Mar 19 05:49:46 look at the packages Mar 19 05:49:52 Anybody ever get around to listening to Ari's talk on open source stuff? Mar 19 05:49:59 the ones at the top (with larger numbers) are the ones taking up the most space Mar 19 05:50:06 GeneralAntilles: ? Mar 19 05:50:17 again... Mar 19 05:50:20 KotCzarny: can you send me that file? :P Mar 19 05:51:01 rm_you: huh, ok, join #kotc Mar 19 05:51:02 :) Mar 19 05:51:06 This is awesome. I just set up the maemo vmware sdk on my second monitor, visible on all workstations, with open-vm-tools enabled. http://labs.beffa.org/w2box/demo/data/awesome.png Mar 19 05:51:26 KotCzarny: just use DCC or /notice ? Mar 19 05:51:35 i'm not registered Mar 19 05:51:38 >_> Mar 19 05:51:40 :) Mar 19 05:52:16 rm_you, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=156212#post156212 Mar 19 05:52:39 I haven't decided if it's worth my time to listen to it yet. :P Mar 19 05:53:21 I dont see anything alarming...I just need more than the 256 of storage..so booting from the mmc may be my solution huh? or, can I map the largest folder in the filesystem to the mmc? would that be simpler and just as effective? Mar 19 05:53:33 rm_you i installed activeperl now what? Mar 19 05:53:40 WorkingOnWise: actually, that could work Mar 19 05:53:44 I'd just extend the rootfs to SD Mar 19 05:53:53 Italodance: one second Mar 19 05:53:57 as long you don't eject the card :> Mar 19 05:55:56 I dont remember the dir structure of Linux without looking it up, but the default apps folder is the one I am thinkin of mapping to the mmc, th one under the rear cover... I can use fstab to do that, like I do on a PC? Mar 19 05:56:26 well.. if you have the card formatted to ext3.. or ext2 Mar 19 05:56:40 if it's a vfat you can run into a problems Mar 19 05:57:07 I can format it on the laptop... Mar 19 05:57:43 still, i think you will benefit from mmc boot Mar 19 05:57:46 does the N800 support the journaling abilities of ext3. or reiserfs? Mar 19 05:58:35 I'll look into the mmc boot. I saw it but didnt see a need...lol Mar 19 05:58:35 WorkingOnWise: to use ext2 you will need to install the kernel module Mar 19 05:58:55 might be an ext3 module as well... not sure Mar 19 05:59:02 what fs is the N800 using in the flash? Mar 19 05:59:14 builtin? jffs2 Mar 19 05:59:17 :) Mar 19 05:59:51 ext3 works Mar 19 05:59:57 jff2s Mar 19 06:00:04 . Mar 19 06:00:06 It's a flash-specific fs Mar 19 06:00:28 Italodance: looking for the newest version Mar 19 06:00:48 tnx :D Mar 19 06:00:49 GeneralAntilles: where is a good howto, or good google search terms, to get ext3 working on the N800? Mar 19 06:01:31 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631 Mar 19 06:01:37 That's a general overview of dual-booting. Mar 19 06:02:12 Should be some links in there to other info Mar 19 06:02:16 Don't recall any offhand Mar 19 06:02:20 May check the ITT wiki, too. Mar 19 06:02:31 nevr considered this on a desktop, but is there too much overhead on a tablet to make ext3 a good fs to use? Mar 19 06:02:49 look at: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Partition_your_MMC_card/ Mar 19 06:03:50 Italodance: do you watch Anime? Mar 19 06:04:48 this thing is just amazing! it really is a mini pc with a touch screen interface...wow Mar 19 06:05:08 yes :) Mar 19 06:05:12 :) Mar 19 06:05:43 rm_you no! Mar 19 06:05:47 lol Mar 19 06:05:55 why :D ? Mar 19 06:06:01 i was gonna send you a sample video in the meantime Mar 19 06:06:09 so you could compare quality Mar 19 06:06:24 i trust in u Mar 19 06:06:31 lol Mar 19 06:06:44 just send the tool i need to test it here :D Mar 19 06:07:29 tell me ur mplayer can read ur mp4 file (converted files by Internet Tablet Video Converter) good? Mar 19 06:07:40 yes can play? Mar 19 06:08:20 sure, it works fine Mar 19 06:08:41 * konttori goes to work Mar 19 06:09:02 so what is my problem then :( mplayer need other install file to do it? Mar 19 06:09:18 Italodance: sec... Mar 19 06:12:30 wow, annoying Mar 19 06:15:39 Italodance: sending you file Mar 19 06:16:00 ok Mar 19 06:19:57 what is it https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=455&release_id=1150? Mar 19 06:20:18 mediaserv? Mar 19 06:20:30 It's an on-demand on-the-fly transcoding server Mar 19 06:20:38 mediautils.garage.maemo.org Mar 19 06:20:50 mediautils is excellent Mar 19 06:21:21 in fact, the old 770-encode script was rolled into that package and renamed tablet-encode Mar 19 06:21:26 but it isn't as good now >_> Mar 19 06:21:45 Howso? Mar 19 06:21:53 It's only gotten better for me. Mar 19 06:23:10 they added all kinda of cruft Mar 19 06:23:11 rm_you i am waiting for u Mar 19 06:23:19 Italodance: i keep trying to send it... Mar 19 06:23:19 "they" Mar 19 06:23:25 are you not getting it? Mar 19 06:23:27 It's a stupid mencoder wrapper Mar 19 06:23:29 GeneralAntilles: people Mar 19 06:23:36 What kind of kruft can there be? :P Mar 19 06:23:40 GeneralAntilles: i think Jaffa was the main author Mar 19 06:23:40 It's just Jaffa. Mar 19 06:23:45 yeah Mar 19 06:23:49 well, a GUI for instance Mar 19 06:23:53 Bleh Mar 19 06:23:59 You don't have to use it. :P Mar 19 06:24:03 cruft! Mar 19 06:24:07 It's not like it impacts performance by being there. :P Mar 19 06:24:29 it doesn't have my optimizations! :P Mar 19 06:24:34 Pfft Mar 19 06:24:40 Change a LINE Mar 19 06:24:54 ok Mar 19 06:25:22 tablet-encode -p best -o -c Mar 19 06:26:22 guys how can i add tar.gz files to my tablet? where is the place? Mar 19 06:26:44 you have to compile them first Mar 19 06:26:46 probably Mar 19 06:27:18 assuming you're talking about source packages Mar 19 06:27:59 ? Mar 19 06:28:23 italodance: you should really invest in some 'learning linux' book Mar 19 06:29:00 KotCzarny yes u right Mar 19 06:42:45 where can i copy tablet-encode-2.17.tar.gz ? Mar 19 06:42:50 on my n800? Mar 19 06:43:56 you don't run it from the tablet Mar 19 06:44:58 ok so where? Mar 19 06:45:23 where i should copy these files? Mar 19 06:45:39 you run them on your PC Mar 19 06:45:55 first untar it Mar 19 06:46:25 and Mar 19 06:46:27 next? Mar 19 06:47:00 you run it Mar 19 06:47:29 with activeperl Mar 19 06:47:29 run with what? the format is unnkown Mar 19 06:47:33 oh Mar 19 06:47:49 you Mar 19 06:47:53 yes Mar 19 06:47:56 you'll want to do it in a console Mar 19 06:48:07 like... Start -> Run -> cmd Mar 19 06:48:39 yeah Mar 19 06:51:02 rm_you u don't find that tool? Mar 19 06:51:28 ? Mar 19 06:51:51 you can install ActivePERL for windows and use my modified 770-encode (I call it 800-encode) Mar 19 06:52:07 so, you installed activePERL? Mar 19 06:52:14 yes Mar 19 06:52:20 it's here and run Mar 19 06:52:38 i am on perl package manager Mar 19 06:52:49 rm_you: what're the modifications (770-encode is now tablet-encode) Mar 19 06:52:56 yes Mar 19 06:53:16 now what i should do? Mar 19 06:53:25 i suppose i could make a patch against tablet-encode :P Mar 19 06:53:50 it's just that all of the tablet-encode settings are unnecessarily low Mar 19 06:54:01 add profiles? Mar 19 06:54:03 Italodance: sec Mar 19 06:54:08 -l/-n/-h ? :) Mar 19 06:54:09 KotCzarny: yes, *I* have Mar 19 06:54:10 what settings do you use for your video? Mar 19 06:54:13 low/normal/high Mar 19 06:55:31 tablet-encode's "best" quality is about 1/4th the bitrate and lower FPS/size than the one i use Mar 19 06:55:41 rm_you: GeneralAntilles has bumped his "best" too; if it really is too low for things which in 99.999% of the time play OK, I'll bump it up Mar 19 06:55:57 n800 => { abitrate => 128, vbitrate => 1400, width => 400, height => 240, fps => 30 } Mar 19 06:56:05 And the GUI is about 100 lines Mar 19 06:56:14 Personally, I'd just leave it. Mar 19 06:56:18 lol yeah, i just like bashing GUIs :P Mar 19 06:56:27 ignore that Mar 19 06:56:29 Maybe make a note that some people have had luck with higher bitrates and resolutions. Mar 19 06:56:46 I think you'll be pushing the limits just a touch if you go much higher. Mar 19 06:56:49 that plays super-high motion Mar 19 06:56:53 and works with a2dp Mar 19 06:56:59 and the current settings work well with Media player. Mar 19 06:57:13 yeah, mine is designed with mplayer in mind Mar 19 06:57:18 I'll add it as an 'mplayer' preset Mar 19 06:57:18 that's the problem Mar 19 06:57:26 anyway, train time Mar 19 06:57:44 Later. Mar 19 06:58:54 Jaffa: later! Mar 19 07:00:26 Jaffa: just to be clear, i'm really just noting some minor personal preferences... like I said: mediautils is excellent Mar 19 07:00:26 :P Mar 19 07:00:39 You just like bitching. :P Mar 19 07:00:46 I *really* do Mar 19 07:00:51 especially about GUIs :P Mar 19 07:01:02 GUIs make people weak Mar 19 07:01:18 They have their place. :P Mar 19 07:01:42 if you don't know how to do it on a CLI, you shouldnt be allowed to do it with a GUI Mar 19 07:01:50 Pfft Mar 19 07:02:03 and it should still be discouraged Mar 19 07:02:05 Just like you shouldn't be allowed to drive a car because you can't change the master cylinder? Mar 19 07:02:11 rm_you: tell that to m$ Mar 19 07:02:12 :> Mar 19 07:02:32 Or be a passenger on an airplane because you can't fly a pattern? Mar 19 07:02:32 they still don't have decent cli Mar 19 07:02:43 GeneralAntilles: somewhat. I've been learning about engines for that reason, actually Mar 19 07:02:50 That's a rather unfair comparison anyways >_> Mar 19 07:02:58 and their 'monad' is trumpeted as ground breaking Mar 19 07:03:04 GeneralAntilles: the airplane one isnt accurate tho, yes Mar 19 07:03:06 Absolutes rarely serve anybody well. Mar 19 07:03:23 CLI apps are fully functional without their GUI counterparts Mar 19 07:03:29 The basis for our society is specialization Mar 19 07:03:41 and can be used in place of them Mar 19 07:03:44 Expecting everybody to be good at everything is naive and stupid. Mar 19 07:04:18 Why should a neurosurgeon be required to know bash to use his computer? Mar 19 07:04:35 Media_Converter_Windows_1[1].43_setup didn't work on my win why? Mar 19 07:04:46 GeneralAntilles: for the most part, people don't even use GUIs right unless they actually understand what is going on... and to understand what is going on, you need to understand the program without the graphical clutter, IE be able to use it in CLI mode Mar 19 07:05:25 I understand (and partially agree with) the spirit of it, but applying your personal standards to other people (especially other people with much greater specialization than yourself) is stupid. Mar 19 07:05:47 I know my dad certainly doesn't have the time to learn how to use DOS. Mar 19 07:06:05 He's got MUCH better things to do with his time. Mar 19 07:06:52 well, if all you want to do is check your email, then you dont need to know any of this stuff, and thats fine Mar 19 07:07:05 That's what you seemed to be implying. <_< Mar 19 07:07:11 but if you want to do anything complicated, you need to understand more than the basics Mar 19 07:07:31 or just hire someone Mar 19 07:07:32 to do it Mar 19 07:07:33 ;) Mar 19 07:07:39 kind of like, if you just want to drive your car to the store, then it doesnt really matter if you know how it works Mar 19 07:08:03 Your position seems to have changed since we started this discussion. :P Mar 19 07:08:04 but if you want to race it or to stunt driving (like i do), then you need to understand intimately how every part works Mar 19 07:08:20 at the start of this discussion we were talking about a video encoder Mar 19 07:08:26 which is not a simple task :P Mar 19 07:08:37 Meh, there's no reason it shouldn't be. Mar 19 07:08:47 A user shouldn't need to concern themselves with formats and bitrates. Mar 19 07:08:52 rm_you: otoh, do you know the innards of xvid? :> Mar 19 07:08:56 My brother uses an ffmpeg frontend on windows Mar 19 07:09:30 has the full range of options available with ffmpeg from the command line Mar 19 07:09:32 Honestly, the fact that they DO is indicative of a broken system. Mar 19 07:09:45 KotCzarny: I know how it works... i dont understand the math, but i'm familiar with the different types of frames, how it goes about choosing which pixels to discard, etc Mar 19 07:10:46 rm_you: i think it's all about getting the results Mar 19 07:10:50 this way or the other Mar 19 07:10:55 and i didn't say you had to be able to CODE the program, just to be able to use it in CLI :P Mar 19 07:11:20 be it cli or gui Mar 19 07:11:24 sorry again Media_Converter_Windows_1[1].43_setup didn't work on my win why? ? Mar 19 07:11:33 win = lose Mar 19 07:12:06 less = more Mar 19 07:12:09 I would postulate that a person will get better results if they actually understand what the options DO Mar 19 07:12:17 less > more Mar 19 07:12:25 rm_you: good enough [tm] Mar 19 07:12:36 spending enough time to learn the CLI generally leads to a better idea of what is actually happening Mar 19 07:12:39 and leads to better results Mar 19 07:12:45 Time is money. Mar 19 07:12:45 you are happy with 400x200 vids Mar 19 07:12:58 I waste a lot of money then Mar 19 07:13:14 400x240:P Mar 19 07:13:19 The opportunity cost of learning the CLI system is usually a lot greater than the benefits. Mar 19 07:13:36 depends on the app Mar 19 07:13:52 learning cli in *nix is essential Mar 19 07:13:58 For a non-poweruser. Mar 19 07:14:05 depends on the app Mar 19 07:14:15 "usually" Mar 19 07:15:01 GeneralAntilles, the opportunity cost idea is what gives us the braindeadness of most Windows apps Mar 19 07:15:33 GUI philosophies are unrelated to this discussion. :P Mar 19 07:15:53 not necessarily Mar 19 07:16:09 :""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""( Mar 19 07:16:19 my comments are only really applicable to GUIs that try to make using a program "simple" Mar 19 07:17:05 if your idea of a gui is a screen with a huge command line, and each option is mapped with a checkbox, and suboptions and dropdowns... Mar 19 07:18:10 rm_you: but you have to admit after you fiddle with settings you write a script that uses predefined sets of options Mar 19 07:18:20 to simplify Mar 19 07:18:46 like, say you had a gui with: "mencoder [--oac {mp3lame, pcm, copy}] [--ofps {1-30}] [--oac {x264,xvid,lavc}] [filename] -o [filename]" Mar 19 07:18:55 where [] is a checked option, and {} are dropdowns Mar 19 07:18:57 that would be neat Mar 19 07:19:13 :P Mar 19 07:19:27 My brother found one Mar 19 07:19:44 I was talking about it earlier, it supports ffmpeg, mencoder, and two other things Mar 19 07:19:44 i should make a mockup of that :P Mar 19 07:19:53 just have every mencoder option mapped out into a GUI Mar 19 07:19:54 Media_Converter_Windows didn't work here? is it needs java? Mar 19 07:19:57 rm_you: in ascii Mar 19 07:19:57 :) Mar 19 07:20:04 and make it assemble the commandline in realtime at the bottom Mar 19 07:20:11 and then just have an Execute button Mar 19 07:20:12 :P Mar 19 07:20:15 the window is huge Mar 19 07:20:35 "Super" the video encoder frontend is like that Mar 19 07:20:39 rm_you: mencodersh Mar 19 07:20:42 :) Mar 19 07:20:48 its a windows app that acts as a frontend for mencoder/ffmpeg/producer Mar 19 07:20:53 what can i do now? Mar 19 07:21:01 I think that's it Mar 19 07:21:09 Italodance: what language do you speak natively? Mar 19 07:22:13 farsi Mar 19 07:22:45 hrm Mar 19 07:22:58 damn, was hoping it was something i knew (though that isnt likely) Mar 19 07:23:02 :> Mar 19 07:23:10 wow, a guy on maemo-developers CCs Jorma Ollila Mar 19 07:23:23 that'll do a lot good, no doubt Mar 19 07:23:24 who? Mar 19 07:23:29 lol? Mar 19 07:23:40 pleas reply Media_Converter_Windows didn't work here? is it needs java?????? Mar 19 07:23:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorma_Ollila Mar 19 07:24:07 lol Mar 19 07:26:35 lol Mar 19 07:29:56 http://www.nokia.com/link?cid=EDITORIAL_4591 Mar 19 07:29:57 :) Mar 19 07:35:11 my win can't read / run Media_Converter Mar 19 07:35:17 :( Mar 19 07:37:28 please help this one Mar 19 07:40:39 i really need it Mar 19 07:45:36 Italodance: convert to unix, then come again :) Mar 19 07:46:25 unix what is it? Mar 19 07:47:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix Mar 19 07:47:51 ok 1 sec Mar 19 07:48:06 :D Mar 19 07:49:18 i need to install java too http://www.java.com/en/download/help/win_offline.xml#download? Mar 19 07:49:28 1.4 Mar 19 07:51:29 good morning Mar 19 08:35:07 is there a command line equivalent for the application manager? Mar 19 08:35:17 apt Mar 19 08:35:21 or dpkg Mar 19 08:36:41 I'm used to using aptitude. which of the two do you recommend? Mar 19 08:37:15 i don't know, depends what you want to do Mar 19 08:37:48 the problem I have with the application manager GUI is that it won't update all programs, only one at a time Mar 19 08:37:51 apt-get can upgrade/install all dependencies in one go Mar 19 08:45:27 apt-get Mar 19 08:45:57 christefano, apt-get is what you're looking for, dpkg is a for installing actual .deb packages Mar 19 08:47:22 isn't apt-get too about installing .deb packages? Mar 19 08:48:05 :) Mar 19 08:48:05 higher level: solve dependencies, download packages, install packages Mar 19 08:48:18 how do I get apt-get on my tablet? Mar 19 08:48:25 it's there Mar 19 08:48:28 you probably have it already Mar 19 08:48:31 oh, good Mar 19 08:48:33 thanks Mar 19 08:51:01 speaking of apt-get, how do you make it so that you get a list about available packages when you type something and then press tab Mar 19 08:51:14 it works on my host environment, but not in scratchbox :/ Mar 19 08:51:41 it's sometimes a bit of a hassle to figure out the correct package name Mar 19 08:51:51 dpkg -l |grep ? Mar 19 08:51:52 :) Mar 19 08:52:29 but it may be for installed only, hum Mar 19 08:52:36 Mikho, haven't tried, but this should work: Mar 19 08:52:53 uncomment the bash completion stuff in /etc/bash.bashrc Mar 19 08:53:56 it's not guaranteed that the same completion dictionaries are there of course... Mar 19 08:54:33 has someone ported abiword 2.60 to n8x0? Mar 19 08:54:38 probably Mar 19 08:55:15 well, the autocompletion works, but it tries to find out files in my working directory, not the available packages Mar 19 08:55:26 leo2007: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5423 ? Mar 19 08:55:38 leo2007, it's in private beta right now. Mar 19 08:56:54 apparently it wasn't an easy port: the first "Abiword is ready for Maemo 4.x" is from five months ago... Mar 19 09:14:03 hello Mar 19 09:51:14 morning all Mar 19 10:21:00 anyone could tell me what's wrong with this .instal, please? http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/gjiten/ (I'm using IT2008) Mar 19 10:22:44 it's in 2007 format? Mar 19 10:22:49 For one that it creates yet another repository :) Mar 19 10:23:19 anyone know how I can get drag scrolling to work on my Gtk::TreeView? That is, I don't want to select an item when dragging, only when tapping? Mar 19 10:23:30 warlock86: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/making_application_packages.html Mar 19 10:23:44 "Adding Catalogues" Mar 19 10:25:36 thanks, kulve Mar 19 10:28:09 umm why does my hildon application look totally different when i run it after i execute sudo gainroot? :P Mar 19 10:28:27 + hildon gives segmentation faults Mar 19 10:28:28 scour-: Error: "hildon" is not a valid command. Mar 19 10:29:04 the environment variables probably get wiped when you "gainroot" Mar 19 10:30:23 oh. thanks Mar 19 11:27:17 ah, finally shell is on wtf-8 and i can see scandinavian öäöä properly :D Mar 19 11:27:26 with N810 :) Mar 19 11:29:33 wom: I'm n819-exclusive this easter, and am in the process of improving the keyboard layout. got rid of the menu for an extra ctrl, for example. Mar 19 11:29:52 n810. Mar 19 11:30:49 wom, does the built in terminal support something else than wtf-8? Mar 19 11:31:24 inz: well utf-8 is the only thing that is working for me. so i dont know :) Mar 19 11:31:47 Veggen: nice Mar 19 11:33:05 but wtf is pageup, in xkb-symbols? Mar 19 11:33:35 I want to put it on shift-up Mar 19 11:34:45 also 'alt' would be nice for irssi usage Mar 19 11:35:08 mmm. but where? Mar 19 11:35:12 'esc' is in on-screen part and that makes it little bit difficult to use Mar 19 11:35:19 shift-fn perhaps Mar 19 11:35:29 ah too difficult Mar 19 11:35:49 esc is the round arrow. Mar 19 11:36:06 i can live with that. Mar 19 11:36:13 round arrow? Mar 19 11:36:20 wom-: back Mar 19 11:36:27 ah Mar 19 11:36:29 on left side of screen. Mar 19 11:37:09 didn't realise that.. every day something new :) Mar 19 11:42:37 but anyone got the symbol for pageup? Mar 19 11:45:35 Page_Up? Mar 19 11:49:54 kulve: is it? Mar 19 11:50:58 For what use? Mar 19 11:51:12 Veggen: I could guess so. Not 100% sure though Mar 19 11:51:16 would Mar 19 11:52:12 Ahh, xkb, missed that Mar 19 11:52:14 inz: xkb Mar 19 11:52:41 optimizing it for my usage. Mar 19 11:53:31 no on-screen, no difficult combinations is the goal. Mar 19 11:54:21 hmmf. can't get pageup to work. Mar 19 11:54:27 hello Mar 19 11:54:41 difficult combinations? I put | to FN+shift+q :) Mar 19 11:54:41 I'm having a problem with application manager Mar 19 11:54:43 Veggen, how about KP_Prior? Mar 19 11:54:59 that is the application name field resized somehow Mar 19 11:55:06 and I can't make it large again... Mar 19 11:55:32 Veggen: or KP_Page_Up ? Mar 19 11:55:38 Veggen, or plain Prior Mar 19 11:55:49 or x, or y, or.. ;) Mar 19 11:56:14 I used /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h for guessing the symbols.. Not sure what would be the right place Mar 19 11:57:09 any ideas? Mar 19 11:57:53 version field now takes 1/2 of the width Mar 19 11:58:15 I've heard it's because of long version strings Mar 19 11:58:20 are you in red pill mode? Mar 19 11:58:27 it is. Mar 19 11:58:52 Veggen: it is what? Mar 19 11:59:05 i am, but there are no long version strings around... Mar 19 11:59:13 ah no! Mar 19 11:59:14 for the adventurous: upgrade apt and application manager, that's what I did :) Mar 19 11:59:18 zorg-omap :P Mar 19 11:59:56 http://vegard.engen.priv.no/blog/ Mar 19 12:01:43 hmm. no, now it scrolls xterm but not irssi... Mar 19 12:01:58 (shift-up) Mar 19 12:02:38 Veggen, what symbol was that? Mar 19 12:03:34 tell us! Mar 19 12:04:35 KP_Prior Mar 19 12:04:46 Veggen, try plain Prior then, maybe that works better Mar 19 12:05:29 According to xev my desktop seems to send Prior and Next from page up and down.. Mar 19 12:06:30 hmm. doesn't seem to work in irssi. Mar 19 12:06:36 :/ Mar 19 12:07:16 inz: what does the osso-xterm send when clicking those page up/down buttons? They do scroll irssi too Mar 19 12:08:05 or is it somehow a different case whether the xterm is sending them or somebody else (X) is sending them to xterm..? Mar 19 12:08:49 kulve, it sends GDK_Page_Up Mar 19 12:08:59 hmmf. Mar 19 12:09:02 kulve, which I would imagine is what Prior should map into Mar 19 12:10:59 prior also made xterm scroll. Mar 19 12:11:14 ;p Mar 19 12:11:33 these pkgs from blog don't have the mangled deps Mar 19 12:11:51 how do i ix them? (hildon-aplication-manager) Mar 19 12:12:36 use ar to extract the .deb, use tar to extract the control.tar.gz in it, muck about with control til it looks right, repack the control.tar.gz, then repack the deb Mar 19 12:12:55 or install in red pill mode? Mar 19 12:13:19 (if we are talking only about the section -thing) Mar 19 12:13:23 does red pill cause a Debian "Conflicts" to be ignored? Mar 19 12:13:32 no :) Mar 19 12:13:54 first of all ... good! second of all that won't work for him, then :) Mar 19 12:14:02 AStorm: pkgs from blog wrong? Mar 19 12:14:09 but unless the package is very buggy, there should be a reason for those conflicts.. Mar 19 12:14:14 Veggen: yup Mar 19 12:14:38 kulve: well, it should provide hildon-update-notifier too Mar 19 12:14:44 kulve, read the aforementioned blog, this is actually a special case... Mar 19 12:14:54 you'll need to update them all at once and accept to lose osso-software-version. Mar 19 12:15:20 i don't need that Mar 19 12:15:30 and how do I update them all at once? Mar 19 12:15:37 and it's sorta high-risk behavior. i.e. be sure to back up first :) Mar 19 12:15:38 I've updated apt and apt-utils Mar 19 12:15:48 Veggen: it's a freshly reflashed N810 ;P Mar 19 12:15:51 no need for backups Mar 19 12:16:13 btw, I have to flash that better bootloader... last time I tried, it failed miserably Mar 19 12:16:16 had to reflash Mar 19 12:16:20 ok, do it in shell, with dpkg. Mar 19 12:16:24 mhm Mar 19 12:16:34 well, now dpkg doesn't want to update Mar 19 12:16:45 hmm? Mar 19 12:16:53 vs hildon-update-notifier Mar 19 12:17:33 oh. hmm. I thought I fixed that. Mar 19 12:17:59 osso-af deps on update-notifier Mar 19 12:18:02 :| Mar 19 12:18:57 and some nokia-repository Mar 19 12:19:06 care to repack the pkgs for me? Mar 19 12:19:08 well, application manager doesn't really conflict. but it has no need for it anymore, so it says it conflicts. Mar 19 12:19:16 heh Mar 19 12:19:35 I thought I repackaged to fix that. Mar 19 12:19:36 add a provide for hildon-update-notifier... that might fix stuff Mar 19 12:20:27 well. my build-machine is dead. I'm pure n810 right now. Mar 19 12:20:36 :> Mar 19 12:20:41 if you have ar... I don't Mar 19 12:21:01 Can repack it on this machine, but it'll take a short while Mar 19 12:21:41 It will probably take longer for me, using n810 :) Mar 19 12:22:53 you didn't remove the conflict Mar 19 12:22:54 fail! Mar 19 12:24:29 just remove the conflict, and it'll work. i think. Mar 19 12:24:51 I'll add the provide too Mar 19 12:24:54 less breakage Mar 19 12:25:43 no. don't think so. think things depend on specific version. but ok, you can try. Mar 19 12:27:06 hm Mar 19 12:27:09 hmm. nuts. I think I'll install Ubuntu or such on an old VIA-thing tonight. I need a build-environment :) Mar 19 12:27:18 why does the hildon installer fail on updates every time? Mar 19 12:27:26 apt-get dist-upgrades work Mar 19 12:27:46 Veggen: try the pkg from http://astralstorm.bounceme.net/ Mar 19 12:28:09 blah, noip failed to start ;P Mar 19 12:30:28 and now it works Mar 19 12:30:43 the package does too Mar 19 12:32:48 hmm, some I18N strings are broken Mar 19 12:33:08 e.g. "ai_tb_update_all" Mar 19 12:33:24 so, please redo the package with proper l10n Mar 19 12:33:41 "ai_ni_software_update_installed" ;P Mar 19 12:34:07 mmm, will look at it later :) Mar 19 12:34:48 wheee split Mar 19 12:38:19 now, where did i put that new rtcomm Mar 19 12:39:13 first, I'll move that to mmc2 Mar 19 12:43:55 anyone has installed scim for using input methods? when I install it the on-screen keyboard doesn't appear, and the hardware keyboard of my device also works in a strange way... Mar 19 12:45:52 heh Mar 19 12:57:19 hi Mar 19 12:58:24 hmm, i'm missing avahi for newest rtcom Mar 19 12:58:32 which repo do i hve to add? Mar 19 13:02:38 should be in extras Mar 19 13:02:50 but rtcom is still complaining Mar 19 13:04:07 ok, now it's good Mar 19 13:05:34 but, why doesn't my dpad-modifications work in irssi? Mar 19 13:05:39 hmf. Mar 19 13:06:04 your irssi ist kaputt! Mar 19 13:06:39 nah. pgup/down in xterm works. Mar 19 13:06:54 (the on-screen ones) Mar 19 13:07:34 weird Mar 19 13:08:56 xev says it emits Prior when I press shift-up, but in my irssi it doesn't do anything. shouldn't matter that the irssi is running remote either... Mar 19 13:09:29 my irssi (remote screen over ssh) work on Prior and Next Mar 19 13:09:37 +s Mar 19 13:09:37 kulve: Error: "s" is not a valid command. Mar 19 13:09:53 s/work/works/ Mar 19 13:10:10 dtahtbot: help Mar 19 13:10:10 kulve: (help [] []) -- This command gives a useful description of what does. is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. Mar 19 13:10:48 dtahtbot: help foo Mar 19 13:10:49 kulve: Error: There is no command "foo". Mar 19 13:11:00 kulve: could the dpad be special? but it emits Prior/next... Mar 19 13:11:46 Veggen: are you using xev (or something similar) to make sure it sends what you are expecting it to send? Mar 19 13:11:54 yes. Mar 19 13:12:11 Prior/Next, says xev. Mar 19 13:12:33 sounds like the osso-xterm is eating the key presses then? Mar 19 13:12:38 Veggen, I would guess the problem is the shift Mar 19 13:13:10 Veggen: try mapping the Prior to something which is only a single key.. Mar 19 13:13:57 Gnome-terminal (which uses vte, like osso-xterm), scrolls on shift+pgup, but irssi doesn't Mar 19 13:14:50 bye! Mar 19 13:15:36 osso-xterm highlights urls but can it do anything else with them? Mar 19 13:15:46 yes, launch in browser Mar 19 13:15:48 my xterm scrolls up/down with shift+pgup/down and without the shift, irssi scrolls Mar 19 13:15:55 just hold the stick/finger on it Mar 19 13:16:44 sigh, i've missed that somehow Mar 19 13:17:19 AStorm, does that work in the 2008 "bundled" xterm? Mar 19 13:17:25 yes Mar 19 13:17:32 it's a right click Mar 19 13:17:35 AStorm, oh, I though they broke it Mar 19 13:18:01 i think you're right. worked if i remApped SmAll A. but it wAsn't A good ideA :) Mar 19 13:18:57 ah - there. Mar 19 13:20:06 is there an xkb way to fix that? i.e. make irssi think shift isn't pressed? Mar 19 13:20:12 AStorm, I only have "New window" and "Paste" in the context menu... Mar 19 13:20:22 Veggen: i use Page_Up / Page_Down in my xkb and it works fine with irssi Mar 19 13:21:02 but not on shift-up (on dpad) ? Mar 19 13:21:46 hmm i bound it to Chr+Backspace / Chr+Return .. Mar 19 13:22:29 i use shift+dpad to select text sometimes Mar 19 13:22:33 hmm. i can perhaps live with that.. Mar 19 13:22:50 oh, shidt-dpad selects text? Mar 19 13:23:19 well like shift cursor does in many apps :) Mar 19 13:23:27 :P Mar 19 13:23:50 playing lxdoom with keyboard is quite effective Mar 19 13:24:02 now I need QuakeWorld on it ;P Mar 19 13:24:32 hmm psdoom would be fun.. if you kill the wrong process the watchdog will reboot :) Mar 19 13:25:18 lol Mar 19 13:25:34 jott: hmm, you need to make enter/backspace EIGHT_LEVEL then? Mar 19 13:25:43 now, I need a BT mouse ;P Mar 19 13:25:58 and build some stand for n810 Mar 19 13:26:15 "XYZ ate rocket from Mar 19 13:26:25 NokieN810Player" Mar 19 13:26:30 *Nokia Mar 19 13:26:33 yeah and remap Chr ( ) to ISO_Level5_Shift Mar 19 13:26:47 what about mapping it to compose? Mar 19 13:26:57 you'll also get rid of the stupid char selection bar when pressing chr then :) Mar 19 13:27:08 I need some ogonki (singular: ogonek) Mar 19 13:27:54 tab, esc, pipe, pageup/down on hw keyboard would rock too Mar 19 13:28:01 and {} [] Mar 19 13:28:10 i have all of them mapped <;) Mar 19 13:28:16 have some spare german keys to remap Mar 19 13:28:19 gimme the file :D Mar 19 13:28:39 the only diff is that I have a german keyboard Mar 19 13:28:59 I'd like to keep most of the signs Mar 19 13:29:01 diff to what :> Mar 19 13:29:14 diff vs german layout Mar 19 13:29:32 * jott also got a german layout ;) Mar 19 13:29:45 aha! so, give me the file, then Mar 19 13:30:03 . Mar 19 13:30:14 I'll just have to change a few keys, have compose and some diacritics (ownage) Mar 19 13:30:16 i've very bad signal atm to my n810 Mar 19 13:30:37 jott: well... does it matter? send it over lan or something Mar 19 13:30:48 ukeyboard, right? Mar 19 13:31:01 no usb atm, but i can stand the lag ;) Mar 19 13:31:19 heh Mar 19 13:33:16 AStorm: this is my current layout http://pastebin.ca/948822 but i still want to optimize it :) Mar 19 13:33:34 but you can use the eight_level with it :) Mar 19 13:34:08 hmm. chr selection bar might come handy... Mar 19 13:34:09 8 shift levels? wtf? Mar 19 13:34:26 Veggen: yup, make it appear on shift+chr Mar 19 13:34:28 :> Mar 19 13:34:35 normal chr is just overkill Mar 19 13:35:00 astorm: hmm. Mar 19 13:35:07 just remember the mappings and you won't need the bar ;) Mar 19 13:35:33 the bar is useful for e.g. rarely entered currency symbols Mar 19 13:35:41 mm. Mar 19 13:35:49 paragraph/section symbol Mar 19 13:35:56 but shift-chr would be ok. Mar 19 13:35:58 Chr+Shift+Fn+q or something would be sufficient for the bar :) Mar 19 13:36:23 especially when the keyboard supports only two simultaneous keypresses ;) Mar 19 13:36:41 but it has locking keys Mar 19 13:36:43 :P Mar 19 13:36:46 hehe stick it :) Mar 19 13:36:51 so you can go all emacs on it Mar 19 13:50:16 hey Mar 19 13:53:28 Morning. Mar 19 13:53:48 g'mornin yall Mar 19 14:07:23 anyone here able to help me with some clone os to sd card questions? prolly best via pms Mar 19 14:08:40 I used gnu tar for that Mar 19 14:09:35 i'm following the tutorial on itt but i get e2fsprogs no installation canidate Mar 19 14:10:17 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_BootRootFSFromMMC/ Mar 19 14:10:20 I followed that one Mar 19 14:10:30 "Alternative 2" and the tar, not rsync Mar 19 14:11:10 and I use the initfs bootmenu instead of choosing the rootfs with flasher Mar 19 14:11:52 hrm, that procedure doesn't list 810 or os2008 as tested Mar 19 14:12:15 nope, but I've used the same thing for 2007 and for 2008 Mar 19 14:12:28 the risk is your of course, as always :) Mar 19 14:12:35 heh of course Mar 19 14:15:55 kulve: hw can I flash the new initrd with the partition switcher? Mar 19 14:16:19 i've tried initfs_flasher and it made my n810 reboot all the time Mar 19 14:16:44 had to reflash Mar 19 14:18:10 flasher --flash-only initfs -F /path/to/fiasco -f Mar 19 14:18:12 something like that Mar 19 14:24:22 hmm Mar 19 14:24:41 but that one has some add. apps Mar 19 14:24:44 and menu Mar 19 14:47:46 :-) Mar 19 14:49:28 hmm. suddenly there's no symbol to show shift/fn state etc... Mar 19 14:49:35 disappeared. Mar 19 14:53:45 you disabled autocomplete Mar 19 14:53:57 Hi everyone, has anyone of you ever uploaded any video to google.com? I just uploaded my first mojocafe Video but the quality is *bah* Mar 19 14:55:16 the cam is junk and their compression is too Mar 19 14:57:05 No, i mean ordinary. I thought that 320x240 would be ok in size, but it pushes it up to the whole framesize of the whole browserwindow :( .... this would mean that you MUST upload a video in hiquality PAL or NTSC format :( .... you can view the video here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3176964189343133123&hl=en Mar 19 15:01:50 try 640x480, the default cam size Mar 19 15:02:26 doesn't look that bad Mar 19 15:02:50 what's the nice app switcher? Mar 19 15:10:36 cyber, demoeffect for the couple first gestures?-) Mar 19 15:11:24 everyone seen planet maemo? Mar 19 15:12:33 * Navi checks Mar 19 15:13:16 leaving nokia? Mar 19 15:13:18 ohnoes, four team members are teh leavez Mar 19 15:13:22 wtf? Mar 19 15:19:46 any python datetime and timezone gurus around? :) Mar 19 15:20:35 * sp3000 shudders Mar 19 15:20:52 i have time in iso 8601 format with timezone info at the end (+02:00) and i am converting that to datetime using xml.utils.iso8601.. everything works fine except i loose timezone information Mar 19 15:21:01 * sp3000 discovered the other day that core python doesn't seem to have anything that does iso weeks both ways Mar 19 15:21:52 so my times are two hours off.. Mar 19 15:21:58 wom-: lose it, or does it just get taken into account in an utc result? Mar 19 15:22:02 k Mar 19 15:22:23 so i think i lose it Mar 19 15:22:35 so it claims to be in local time? Mar 19 15:22:49 actually it seems to just ignore it Mar 19 15:22:53 have you compared using a different timezone? Mar 19 15:22:56 local time is also +02:00 Mar 19 15:23:47 kinda interesting.. Mar 19 15:31:07 I get a different result for time.ctime(xml.utils.iso8601.parse("2004-04-09T21:39:00-09:00")) and time.ctime(xml.utils.iso8601.parse("2004-04-09T21:39:00-08:00")) so I'll guesstimate that it works fine Mar 19 15:32:23 ValueError: unknown or illegal ISO-8601 date format: '2004-W04-4' Mar 19 15:32:26 pfft Mar 19 15:33:35 i am using datetime.fromtimestamp(xml.utils.iso8601...blaa blaa) Mar 19 15:33:51 i will try time Mar 19 15:33:56 anyone point me in a direction for my removable memory card being corrupted after i have it set up to boot from the card? Mar 19 15:34:15 i'm guessing it's complaining about partition 1 needing formatting, but it won't let me do that in file manager, says in use Mar 19 15:38:39 wom-: well, iso8601.parse returns a float, not a whole lot of tz info that can be put in there Mar 19 15:39:49 of course its doc doesn't specify if it returns a float since epoch in utc or local, but sanity would suggest utc Mar 19 15:40:20 seems that i have to manually adjust it Mar 19 15:40:26 hmm Mar 19 15:40:29 no nice at all Mar 19 15:40:31 not Mar 19 15:43:50 uh, wtf was I saying earlier, "float since epoch in local" Mar 19 15:43:52 haha Mar 19 15:44:01 I seem to forget there's only one epoch Mar 19 15:45:56 >>> datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(xml.utils.iso8601.parse("2008-03-19T17:45+02:00")) Mar 19 15:45:59 datetime.datetime(2008, 3, 19, 17, 45) Mar 19 15:47:01 I guess I don't see a problem there (I'm +0200 clearly so .fromtimestamp that expresses itself in local matches the numbers in the string) Mar 19 15:48:08 actually it works Mar 19 15:48:32 there is one part after that and it messes it up Mar 19 15:48:35 thanks anyway Mar 19 15:49:01 np Mar 19 15:49:19 time is confusing Mar 19 15:54:05 yeah, it should be disposed of Mar 19 15:54:15 yawn Mar 19 15:54:18 no need for it anyway Mar 19 15:54:21 morning Mar 19 15:54:27 morning KotCzarny :) Mar 19 15:54:32 aquatix: i could use some spare time Mar 19 15:54:35 :) Mar 19 15:54:43 sorry, mine is all gone Mar 19 15:54:47 especially in the 14-18 yo area Mar 19 16:15:40 KotCzarny, heh, years after years I wonder what the heck was I doing with my free time before! it keeps getting smaller :( Mar 19 16:19:59 Sorry guys... i am back now. Had to build up an IKEA shelf... wow... less then 30 minutes! personal record! Mar 19 16:20:21 built on arm? :) Mar 19 16:20:32 Yeah, the videos shows the mojocafe online aplication. Mar 19 16:22:45 mtpaint at work ..... http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1184&stc=1&d=1205943400 Mar 19 16:23:43 very nice! Mar 19 16:24:03 is it available for download? Mar 19 16:24:08 yes Mar 19 16:24:12 on ITT Mar 19 16:24:27 not in maemo? Mar 19 16:24:29 is the pressure sensitivity useful at all? Mar 19 16:24:38 not yet on maemo Mar 19 16:24:47 pressure sensitivity no Mar 19 16:24:49 yes for human beens Mar 19 16:24:59 it's not hildonized as it seems Mar 19 16:25:12 not sure why its not working Mar 19 16:25:19 it sets correctly.. Mar 19 16:25:51 jott, you can go fullscreen and make use of alot of the screen area. Mar 19 16:26:33 does mt paint contain brushes like the mypaint does? Mar 19 16:26:47 fugitivo, the guy working on it wants to do lots of work on it before he adds it to maemo. Mar 19 16:26:58 konttori, nope Mar 19 16:27:04 having issues with mypaint. Mar 19 16:27:31 ah. shame. But still, it's a very welcome addition to the image editors (especially as there aren't really any) Mar 19 16:27:41 half of the screen don't want to register stylus stroke Mar 19 16:27:42 <_collin_> bunch of people leaving the maemo team... anything bad going on? Mar 19 16:27:53 on my device mypaint works just fine Mar 19 16:28:10 konttori, i thought it was my device at first.. Mar 19 16:28:20 but mtpaint works fine. Mar 19 16:28:34 hmm... odd Mar 19 16:28:41 so i don't think its a screen issues. Mar 19 16:29:09 maybe it's a python version issue Mar 19 16:29:13 I think i need to purge mypaint from the my the IT. Mar 19 16:29:29 so soon? Mar 19 16:29:30 :) Mar 19 16:29:31 i had a version on it i compiled a while back, so that might be the issue. Mar 19 16:30:21 i'm not satisfied with the ui and responsiveness Mar 19 16:30:34 which pupnik_ ? Mar 19 16:30:42 mtpaint Mar 19 16:31:06 i had some minor problems with mtpaint, but when i removed the scratch protector everything worked well. Mar 19 16:31:14 but your painting is great, send it in to the mtpaint homepage Mar 19 16:31:23 will do. Mar 19 16:32:45 hmm Mar 19 16:33:02 does mplaye in maemo suport subtitles? Mar 19 16:33:11 probably Mar 19 16:33:26 mediabox doesn't load them? Mar 19 16:34:01 ah, they work Mar 19 16:34:07 wrong encoding though Mar 19 16:34:12 how to fix it? Mar 19 16:34:21 ah, encoding fun. Mar 19 16:34:22 ;) Mar 19 16:34:45 -subcp WINDOWS-1250 \ Mar 19 16:34:50 try this one? Mar 19 16:34:53 my mplayer with some subcp opt cn read them properly Mar 19 16:35:01 uh, mediabox? Mar 19 16:35:06 (it uses mplayer) Mar 19 16:35:51 does mediabox allow params for mplayer? Mar 19 16:35:59 not inside... maybe rc file? Mar 19 16:36:14 i don't use mediabox? Mar 19 16:36:15 :) Mar 19 16:36:24 I meant, maybe mplayer rc file ;P Mar 19 16:37:02 what was the path? Mar 19 16:37:19 mhm, ~/.mplayer/config Mar 19 16:37:43 I use here subcp=enca:pl:cp1250 Mar 19 16:38:24 it's a pity nokia's gstreamer player cannot play some other resolutions Mar 19 16:42:30 btw, I'd like an mplayer built with FPU support Mar 19 16:42:55 why? Mar 19 16:43:02 should be faster? Mar 19 16:43:06 nope Mar 19 16:43:13 no? fully ASM? Mar 19 16:44:01 if it would be faster with fpu it would have compiled with fpu (I don't know which one is it). I assume we are now talking about "mplayer" and not some other "media player" Mar 19 16:44:28 well, they might've traded size (almost 2x) for speed a bit Mar 19 16:44:39 might not be that much of a gain Mar 19 16:44:55 actually, the decoding libs have to be built with fpu Mar 19 16:44:56 again, if we are talking about "mplayer", nothing is traded for speed, afaik Mar 19 16:45:01 mhm Mar 19 16:45:59 well, I might be a bit exaggerating here, but trust me, if there's something easy to be done for speed up, it's done already Mar 19 16:46:12 VFP? some guy got nice speed gains Mar 19 16:46:22 depending totally on the case Mar 19 16:46:42 if the codec is integer-only the vfp support will just slow things down Mar 19 16:47:46 heh, I wonder if floating point codec with vfp is faster than integer codec Mar 19 16:47:54 possible, needs testing Mar 19 16:48:46 that's a good question. Based on my experiences the vfp codec would be slower on n810, but ssvb said that they can be also just less optimized.. Mar 19 16:49:38 fully asm optimized vfp code should be quite fast :) Mar 19 16:50:08 any asm wizzards to take on it? :> Mar 19 16:50:30 I could write libmad, if given enough time, and time is quite expensive :| Mar 19 16:50:53 and mplayer should already be compiled with vfp enabled Mar 19 16:50:54 write some lgpl codec.. :) Mar 19 16:51:43 jott: well, that would only affect filters Mar 19 16:51:49 the real processing is in codecs Mar 19 16:52:41 I don't think xvid and ffmpeg have an integer version Mar 19 16:52:58 esp. arm-optimized integer version Mar 19 16:57:18 AStorm: well libavcoded is compiled with mplayer, so vfp is enabled there too .. Mar 19 16:59:12 libavcodec.. Mar 19 16:59:55 hm Mar 19 16:59:56 but there is certainly more potential ;) Mar 19 17:00:05 esp. using some DSP in it Mar 19 17:00:12 that would have quite an impact Mar 19 17:00:24 yeah, changing freq to 330/220 Mar 19 17:00:25 ;) Mar 19 17:00:27 currently it's not used at all (maybe except sound mixing and mp3 decoding) Mar 19 17:00:31 KotCzarny: nah, that can be locked Mar 19 17:00:34 a kernel hack Mar 19 17:00:39 i know Mar 19 17:01:06 but some people tell me that won't work, because it requires kernel flash Mar 19 17:01:15 and people won't be eager to do it Mar 19 17:01:24 what's wrong with changing kernel? Mar 19 17:01:29 i don't know Mar 19 17:01:36 it's quite easy Mar 19 17:01:42 i'm just telling you what others said to me Mar 19 17:01:51 I'm running one with built-in NFS support and some MMC patches Mar 19 17:02:07 i have my kernel with disabled 330/220 mode Mar 19 17:02:20 and it runs perfectly Mar 19 17:02:23 :) Mar 19 17:04:31 hm is 400MHz actually the limit or did someone try to push it further? Mar 19 17:04:42 * jott imagines a water-cooled n810 Mar 19 17:04:46 :) Mar 19 17:04:49 jott: lol, it's not needed Mar 19 17:04:58 i have seen some posts about overclocking to 400/266 mode Mar 19 17:04:59 you could easily push it to 425 MHz Mar 19 17:05:11 500? 600? :) Mar 19 17:05:19 fry baby, fry? Mar 19 17:05:20 :) Mar 19 17:05:23 above that battery may have too much drain to work Mar 19 17:05:28 KotCzarny: nah, the CPU is cool Mar 19 17:05:34 the problem is power input Mar 19 17:05:52 astorm: what's this cpu rated mhz? Mar 19 17:06:51 TI's papers say 330 Mar 19 17:06:52 actually, they don't have a rating ;P Mar 19 17:07:06 the idea is that with more MHz, DSP speed goes down Mar 19 17:07:26 it's only a matter of preset values Mar 19 17:07:30 mhm Mar 19 17:07:39 and power drain Mar 19 17:07:41 :) Mar 19 17:08:14 The OMAP2420 includes an integrated ARM1136 processor (330 MHz), a TI TMS320C55x\u2122DSP (220 MHz), 2D/3D graphics accelerator, imaging and video accelerator, high-performance system interconnects and industry-standard peripherals. Mar 19 17:08:23 erm, 3d graphics accelerator? Mar 19 17:08:24 :> Mar 19 17:08:35 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4671&navigationId=11990&templateId=6123 Mar 19 17:08:48 don't bring that up :) Mar 19 17:08:54 why? :> Mar 19 17:08:58 KotCzarny: yaah, 3d acceletor. A very old story Mar 19 17:09:04 uh, pvr. Mar 19 17:09:16 proprietary stuff, no libs, etc? Mar 19 17:09:17 :) Mar 19 17:09:21 yup Mar 19 17:09:25 pity Mar 19 17:09:34 KotCzarny: yep, PowerVR Mar 19 17:09:42 how effective it could be? Mar 19 17:09:56 ie. does any other platform based on 2420 uses it? Mar 19 17:10:04 the CPU at 425 would have to run with 1/4 divider Mar 19 17:10:09 nokia phones.. n82/n95/.. Mar 19 17:10:13 uhm, no Mar 19 17:10:16 wrong Mar 19 17:10:28 we'd get free power at DSP too by global overclock Mar 19 17:11:49 jott: is there any sdk for n95 that we can steal? :> Mar 19 17:12:12 KotCzarny: people have tried all kinds of tricks, no luck Mar 19 17:12:15 ndiswrapper style? :> Mar 19 17:13:22 mmm, 3d Mar 19 17:13:23 well an extracted n95/symbian kernel module could potentially help in reverse engineering Mar 19 17:13:32 if it worked Mar 19 17:13:41 the CPU may be different Mar 19 17:13:47 http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/006/05/powervr_mbx04.htm Mar 19 17:14:09 there is currently only a omap2430 linux binary floating around Mar 19 17:14:26 AStorm: i doubt that, both are omap2420 and from nokia Mar 19 17:14:41 hmm :> Mar 19 17:15:04 yep Mar 19 17:15:12 but will the power supply of N8x0 sustain that? Mar 19 17:15:39 jott: I have this line: Mar 19 17:15:43 key { type="EIGHT_LEVEL", [ odiaresis, Odiaresis, equal, equal, oslash, Oslash, equal, equal ] }; Mar 19 17:16:22 and? Mar 19 17:16:27 why on eaerth is it oslash that is the bare key itself? Mar 19 17:16:47 shouldn't it be odiaresis? Mar 19 17:17:28 it's level 5... Mar 19 17:17:36 impossible to get usually? Mar 19 17:17:41 The PowerVR SDK is available now for OpenGL 1.x for ... Texas Instruments' OMAP2420/2430 (Linux & Symbian) Mar 19 17:17:42 hum Mar 19 17:17:57 Nokia is expected to at least provide a binary blob then ;P Mar 19 17:18:35 Veggen: yeah order should actually be None, Shift, LevelThree, Shift+LevelThree, LevelFive, Shift+LevelFive, LevelThree+LevelFive, Shift+LevelThree+LevelFive Mar 19 17:18:54 ah, shift+l5 Mar 19 17:19:03 level3 is FN? Mar 19 17:19:07 yep Mar 19 17:19:08 KotCzarny: that includes e.g. emulator for PC but no arm side binaries.. Mar 19 17:19:15 and chr can be mapped to level5 Mar 19 17:19:17 level5 isn't bound by default? Mar 19 17:19:19 mhm Mar 19 17:20:13 kulve: well there actually are arm binaries (just for omap2430, powervr mbx lite) Mar 19 17:20:37 for linux that is Mar 19 17:21:04 give 'em to us Mar 19 17:21:08 to me it looks like the driver supports both mbx/mbx lite, but mmio space and irq are it is hardwired for 2430 Mar 19 17:21:19 s/it is h/h/ Mar 19 17:21:19 pH5 meant: to me it looks like the driver supports both mbx/mbx lite, but mmio space and irq are hardwired for 2430 Mar 19 17:22:56 pH5: possibly.. either way it's not usable without some real hacking ;) Mar 19 17:23:09 hm, that would be a simple change for the Nokia devs if they have access to the source Mar 19 17:23:36 is there anybody interested in actually reverse engineering those? Mar 19 17:23:45 pH5: yes Mar 19 17:23:56 well, something like that at least.. Mar 19 17:24:22 anyone has access to a n95 or another n-series omap2420 phone? Mar 19 17:24:39 I don't Mar 19 17:24:46 I have a bit of random assembly-turned-C code deduced from the dwarf debugging tags, but I probably shouldn't redistribute that :) Mar 19 17:25:16 pH5: hey it to gain interoperability ;> Mar 19 17:25:25 is there some no rev-enc clause in the licence? Mar 19 17:25:25 :) Mar 19 17:26:06 btw, is there some cleaner for Nxxx? removal of unused dependencies? Mar 19 17:26:11 *unused packages Mar 19 17:26:13 jott: but how can I find out why order is opposite? :) Mar 19 17:26:15 or at least a list Mar 19 17:26:46 Veggen: by trying? Mar 19 17:27:37 that vmware image is still dling :| Mar 19 17:27:52 Log in Mar 19 17:27:58 Access DeniedSorry, you have to be logged in to download this item. Mar 19 17:28:01 Access DeniedYou are already logged in. Mar 19 17:28:07 Well. i am trying, but since jott has done some work on this, I thought perhaps he'd have an idea. Mar 19 17:28:11 ghh. Mar 19 17:28:37 Veggen: key { type="EIGHT_LEVEL", [odiaeresis, Odiaeresis, equal, equal, oslash, Oslash, odiaeresis, Odiaeresis] }; Mar 19 17:28:41 works Mar 19 17:29:00 (i.e. use the first two also as LevelThree+LevelFive, Shift+LevelThree+LevelFive Mar 19 17:31:44 join #kde Mar 19 17:31:44 Veggen: you know that you can use .. setxkbmap -symbols "nokia_vndr/rx-44(de)" to reload the symbols file?! (or replace de with what ever you like ;) Mar 19 17:31:47 oops Mar 19 17:34:36 bbl Mar 19 17:36:28 ummm mplayer has lag sometimes?????????? why? Mar 19 17:36:43 i play a xvid avi file Mar 19 17:41:51 is http://repository.maemo.org down? Mar 19 17:42:17 douthat what's the message? Mar 19 17:42:25 it just seems to stall for me Mar 19 17:42:57 ? Mar 19 17:43:38 ahh, here we go Mar 19 17:43:43 An error occurred while processing your request. Mar 19 17:43:43 Reference #97.472512d1.1205948526.12b0a7e Mar 19 17:45:46 seems to be back up now Mar 19 17:48:42 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3029 Mar 19 17:49:17 here is my old problem :"''( Mar 19 18:00:02 whats the magic in hildon.Window.set_title.. setting it but not seeing it :) this is in python Mar 19 18:06:04 n95 is only 2.8" (240x320) hehe Mar 19 18:08:10 Italodance: mplayer has default delay of 280ms for some reason Mar 19 18:08:36 I think the 26 release makes the delay 0ms Mar 19 18:08:56 It does on my N800 at least afaik (unless the mplayer web plugin has changed things) Mar 19 18:11:19 23.98fps can run on mplayer??????? Mar 19 18:11:42 i just added my original video (without any convert) Mar 19 18:12:01 but it has some lags on somewhere! Mar 19 18:12:23 the fps is highly dependant on bitrate and resolution Mar 19 18:12:24 can someone tell me why? Mar 19 18:12:52 my mplayer is 24 Mar 19 18:13:16 mplayer_1[1].0rc1-maemo.24.n8x0_armel.deb on n800 os2008 Mar 19 18:13:35 kulve do u know what's the problem? Mar 19 18:13:42 I told you the problem Mar 19 18:13:42 maybe you need to update it Mar 19 18:13:58 ? Mar 19 18:14:08 Videos with resolution greater than 400 x 240 may not play full speed Mar 19 18:14:50 yes it is XVID 640x352 23.98fps [Stream 00] Mar 19 18:14:53 @pupnik, Super Mario War works fine on N800 OS2008 BTW, thanks :). I just made a desktop file with a pixmap I copied from the smw data gfx folder. Mar 19 18:15:15 sweet, i'll make a deb with installer Mar 19 18:15:21 thanks qwerty12 Mar 19 18:15:28 :) Mar 19 18:15:38 thanks pupnik for ur guide Mar 19 18:15:46 so i need to convert it Mar 19 18:16:33 Did you tweak the controls? Mar 19 18:16:44 like what? Mar 19 18:16:53 I only enjoyed it with bluetooth kbd Mar 19 18:17:10 pupnik: to me? Mar 19 18:17:16 yes Mar 19 18:18:02 I changed some of the controls as some features were not working (like use item to full screen button etc), I use the built in buttons on the N800, I find they play the game ok :) Mar 19 18:19:00 ok i'll make sure to map that Mar 19 18:19:34 Cool :). Brb, flasher-3.0 will not recognise N800 unless I reboot :@ Mar 19 18:21:25 My bad, flasher-3.0 needs sudo 8-) Mar 19 18:25:25 pupnik: Maybe you can use "funkipup installer " for SMW :)? I untarred deb file with 7zip in windows, and made symlink to memory card. I then edited /var/lib/dpkg/status to remove smw-data dependency :) Mar 19 18:27:46 yes exactly Mar 19 18:28:02 it's the only way i know to install a big deb without requiring huge amts of free space on / Mar 19 18:28:41 I like the funkipup installer :). I hate moving files myself with emelfm2 >.< Mar 19 18:29:29 what is a reasonable wysiwyg html editor for the N800? Mar 19 18:45:40 pupnik Mar 19 18:54:04 hmm, 2430 has powervr LITE and iva2, 2420 has powervr and iva Mar 19 18:58:34 dude keep reading Mar 19 18:59:04 . Mar 19 18:59:09 pupnik Mar 19 18:59:19 pupnik: i will Mar 19 18:59:30 * KotCzarny is on a quest for a free cycles Mar 19 19:03:52 http://openpandora.org/blog.php woooo pandora pcb rev 0.1 posted! Mar 19 19:05:12 some one can send me mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.25? Mar 19 19:05:34 < andreasj> SiO2: Dann wähl wmaker einfach in Deinem Login-Manager aus... Mar 19 19:05:34 20:02 < fir3> aber ein prozess "dselect" läuft nicht mehr, nur noch aptitude Mar 19 19:05:34 [20:05] [red-zack(+e)] [6:#debian.de(+cns)] [Act: 2,3,4,5,7,10] Mar 19 19:05:44 ups Mar 19 19:05:47 mouse abuser Mar 19 19:06:08 pupnik: it is such a sexy device! Mar 19 19:06:19 please send mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.26.n8x0_armel.deb Mar 19 19:06:48 pupnik: http://pastebin.ca/raw/946765 Mar 19 19:07:01 whoo! Mar 19 19:07:02 some people would disagree with 'sexy' but i don't Mar 19 19:07:19 pupnik can u send me this deb file? Mar 19 19:07:30 this is interesting Mar 19 19:07:38 yup Mar 19 19:07:54 at least it confirms there's a mbx here Mar 19 19:08:01 pupnik: I hoped it would be a little more then only a photo Mar 19 19:08:40 please pay attention to me Mar 19 19:08:42 :( Mar 19 19:09:00 it is at least a refutation to the eedjits who said 'pandora is a hoax' Mar 19 19:09:20 Be interesting to port maemo over to the Pandora. Mar 19 19:09:33 yup (mamona, whatervr) Mar 19 19:09:40 KotCzarny: hey that kernel version matches :) Mar 19 19:09:42 KotCzarny: bussy with 3d stuff? Mar 19 19:09:45 pupnik: It is plain ugly, but I do like the specs :) Mar 19 19:09:53 pupnik: yeah, it's for n8x0 Mar 19 19:10:01 Agreed, X-Fade. Mar 19 19:10:08 keesj: hum? Mar 19 19:10:24 We'll see what Nokia has to offer around the end of this year before making any decisions, though. Mar 19 19:10:36 _if_ they can get a driver for the opengl-es.. Mar 19 19:11:13 Please For God Only This! Mar 19 19:11:33 buzzy, omap can't lag behind, but apparently this powervr is used all over the place Mar 19 19:12:03 :"'( Mar 19 19:12:16 keesj: And we've seen it in action on the N810 ;) Mar 19 19:12:21 please Mar 19 19:13:17 please Mar 19 19:13:32 holy crap dude. maemo.org. Google. Mar 19 19:14:15 no Mar 19 19:14:28 maemo website is down for me 1 week Mar 19 19:14:29 X-Fade: nice Mar 19 19:14:32 pupnik: http://airlied.livejournal.com/39506.html Mar 19 19:14:41 but it's for another device :/ Mar 19 19:14:45 please send me http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/chinook/free/m/mplayer/mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.26.n8x0_armel.deb Mar 19 19:14:56 at least it's 2.6 Mar 19 19:14:57 :> Mar 19 19:15:24 please Mar 19 19:15:31 keesj: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K4veJMCM_Q Mar 19 19:15:44 please send Mar 19 19:16:07 X-Fade: you saw powervr running on N800 - at nokia? Mar 19 19:16:13 keesj: Around 2 minutes 5 in... Mar 19 19:16:15 please Mar 19 19:16:22 pupnik: Check that youtube.. Mar 19 19:16:42 please send Mar 19 19:16:57 ok i'm driving to bochum Mar 19 19:17:09 please Mar 19 19:17:25 pupnik: Those seem to be the powervr techdemos running on n810.. Mar 19 19:17:31 please send me http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/chinook/free/m/mplayer/mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.26.n8x0_armel.deb Mar 19 19:17:42 Italodance: Please stop. Mar 19 19:17:50 please 1 Mar 19 19:17:58 it is only 2 mb Mar 19 19:18:08 X-Fade send it to me Mar 19 19:18:27 x-fade: but is it powervr based or rendered by cpu? Mar 19 19:18:43 KotCzarny: It is powervr based. Mar 19 19:18:49 hummm Mar 19 19:18:51 :> Mar 19 19:18:53 I do not understand how they're streaming video off the N810 over wireless Mar 19 19:18:58 while running gl demos... :/ Mar 19 19:18:59 please send it Mar 19 19:19:42 ty for the link X-Fade Mar 19 19:19:44 pupnik, I think the PowerVR is in the USB Mar 19 19:19:44 i can't download from http://repository.maemo.org Mar 19 19:19:47 Or somesuch Mar 19 19:19:52 it is blocked here Mar 19 19:19:54 i need u Mar 19 19:20:08 pupnik: I think it is more like a remote X session idea.. It forwards commands? Mar 19 19:20:24 Really, everything I've read about it has been incredibly vague. Mar 19 19:20:40 the animations look far smoother than say vnc over wlan Mar 19 19:20:44 oh i got it.. Mar 19 19:20:54 Italodance: http://specialdownloadforitalodance_lets_hope_he_shuts_up_now.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/chinook/free/m/mplayer/mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.26.n8x0_armel.deb Mar 19 19:20:55 maybe it's using freeNX? Mar 19 19:21:32 * pupnik giggles Mar 19 19:21:35 and fullHD > 800x480 right? Mar 19 19:21:47 via usb/wifi Mar 19 19:21:56 Can anybody tell me how to change the apt/Application Manager repository timeouts? Mar 19 19:21:56 who says tv-out ? Mar 19 19:22:00 :> Mar 19 19:22:08 Yeah, so they need to cramp that in about 1mbit :) Mar 19 19:22:26 but if you look at their display, it's running a higher resolution than the 800x480 Mar 19 19:22:26 So my guess is opengl instructions? Mar 19 19:22:55 Yeah, i think the display 'server' just displays the instructions. And not the raw data.. Mar 19 19:23:02 The TV-side has a fairly complicated dongle. Mar 19 19:23:22 I think that one has the same cpu in it perhaps? Mar 19 19:23:34 I volunteer to do replacement music for em Mar 19 19:24:06 If anybody wants a slightly less retarded osso-xterm, fiferboy has compiled the svn http://andrew.olmsted.ca/maemo/osso-xterm/ Mar 19 19:24:08 pupnik: But at least there is hope for opengl-es :) Mar 19 19:24:13 but ukmp is in there (right?) Mar 19 19:24:56 hmm they using OpenMAX http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenMAX Mar 19 19:25:17 I already have to much things I want to do in 2d, lets pretend it never happends Mar 19 19:25:26 :> Mar 19 19:26:00 * keesj has been playing http://maniadrive.raydium.org/ lately (as replacement for xmoto) Mar 19 19:26:13 General, yay, someone has the energy to do my work Mar 19 19:27:00 hah, that reminds me of 'stunts' game on amiga Mar 19 19:27:01 :> Mar 19 19:27:58 very similiar Mar 19 19:28:30 This car does not really crash Mar 19 19:28:30 pupnik: Old news: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1183357408.html :D Mar 19 19:28:53 but is all this news or have I been sleeping ? Mar 19 19:29:44 keesj: It has been out in the open for a week orso. But nobody looks at it carefully ;) Mar 19 19:30:44 keesj: This one is interesting too: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jadon/2295711520/ Mar 19 19:31:01 * pupnik packs up his bag and tent Mar 19 19:31:58 yeah that is a 3430 board Mar 19 19:32:39 pupnik: Yeah, great stuff to play with. Mar 19 19:34:20 ok at 00:35 you can see their frontend is a python script. It appears to require a usb dongle (?) and they have OpenGL and X-Proxy modes Mar 19 19:35:07 i wondering if the actual OGl rendering is being done on a remote pc then Mar 19 19:35:16 for the hi-res display Mar 19 19:35:17 pupnik: the one attached to the beamer? Mar 19 19:35:29 It's not on the OMAP PowerVR anyway. Mar 19 19:35:57 I am happy to see some exiting things happen here! Mar 19 19:36:16 pupnik: They also have compressed-av if you look closely.. Mar 19 19:36:26 keesj - on that flickr picture the hardware running maemo is called a 'beagleboard' Mar 19 19:36:33 ahhh ty Mar 19 19:40:32 agggggggg Mar 19 19:40:50 All I really did this week-end is reading about how to unclutter ( http://blog.anamazingmind.com/2008/03/image-courtesy-of-stilldavid-clutter-is.html ) and you guys are definitely not helping here :p Mar 19 19:42:07 x-fade: have you tried recompiling kernel? Mar 19 19:42:29 to and fake version to try loading that pvrdrv.ko ? Mar 19 19:42:47 KotCzarny: lardman has tried to do that. Mar 19 19:43:00 any log of it? Mar 19 19:43:09 KotCzarny: And the driver loads, but doesn't do anything after that.. Mar 19 19:43:14 hum Mar 19 19:43:33 It should create some device entries etc, but doesn't do that. Mar 19 19:43:37 but doesn't crash either Mar 19 19:43:42 Nope. Mar 19 19:43:46 maybe some hardcoded pci ids etc Mar 19 19:43:55 hello Mar 19 19:46:01 KotCzarny, X-Fade: the clock/power registers are in another place on omap2430, so that can't possibly work without some hex editing Mar 19 19:46:31 ph5: there was some preliminary driver for 2420 Mar 19 19:47:15 pH5: This driver was the one from the TI SDK, I think.. Mar 19 19:48:09 KotCzarny: ooh, really? I only have the 2430 sdk. does that 2420 binary still float around anywhere? Mar 19 19:48:11 damn, i have to reformat my internal memory card after copying a lot of data (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=121433#post121433) Mar 19 19:48:16 too bad i didn't read it before Mar 19 19:48:34 ph5: it wasn't doing anything usefull.. just poking here and there Mar 19 19:48:37 enabling clocks Mar 19 19:48:50 Hello Mar 19 19:50:05 ph5: mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/946765.diff Mar 19 19:51:01 KotCzarny: heh, I shouldn't have called that 'driver' Mar 19 19:51:07 :) Mar 19 19:51:30 pH5: Well, it is a start ;) Mar 19 19:52:08 It already requires some knowledge about the pvr. Mar 19 19:52:13 what r u favorite apps for the 2008 os Mar 19 19:55:05 pH5: Duh, it seems you have written it :D Mar 19 19:55:52 :) Mar 19 19:57:54 yeah, that was the easy part. too bad the power state / interrupt logic isn't quite so straightforward. Mar 19 19:59:21 but not impossible? Mar 19 20:00:16 nothing is impossible. question is how many manhours one is willing to invest :/ Mar 19 20:00:38 how can we encourage you? :) Mar 19 20:00:57 with beer and hookers and a blackjack table? Mar 19 20:01:08 pH5: Do you have technical docs or do you reverse engineer it? Mar 19 20:01:08 infact, forget the blackjack Mar 19 20:01:17 KotCzarny: that's easy. disassemble and document large parts of the binary driver :D Mar 19 20:01:46 ph5:i have tried disassembling before.. it was.. erm.. ;) Mar 19 20:02:29 X-Fade: only the 2430 sdk and a few hours to waste. Mar 19 20:02:49 ph5: binary driver is from 2430? Mar 19 20:02:59 I don't think any docs will ever surface. Mar 19 20:03:15 do we know whether the 2430 uses compatible code? Mar 19 20:03:26 2430 has mbx lite Mar 19 20:03:33 pH5: We can always hope for wikileaks ;) Mar 19 20:03:35 or would it be as easy to get hold of the symbian driver? Mar 19 20:03:43 for actual 2420 Mar 19 20:04:06 ph5: how about windows mbx emualtor? Mar 19 20:04:15 X-Fade: I do since I got that n810 :) Mar 19 20:04:21 can it be dissected to get any info? Mar 19 20:04:37 isn't there a 2.4 driver for the mbx? Mar 19 20:04:39 lcuk: the driver code from the 2430 sdk tests for mbx/mbx lite and does some things differently Mar 19 20:04:45 an emulator is no good unless it has the drivers as well Mar 19 20:05:06 of course it could be that mbx code is missing Mar 19 20:05:09 pH5: Not knowing if Nokia/Ti will ever give us a driver is hard :( Mar 19 20:05:20 anders_gud, from what i recall the older 2.4 driver is for the agp hardware Mar 19 20:05:28 ok Mar 19 20:05:30 not for the embedded Mar 19 20:06:01 lcuk: no idea about symbian, has anybody heard about anybody extracting drivers from symbian images? Mar 19 20:07:20 not sure, i dont even know anyone with one - you need a code to download from nokia just like with 810, but their flasher is windows only and i found a windows updater installer (>100mb) which should contain an image but uses none standard compression Mar 19 20:08:22 if anyone else wants to give it a try i found a site listing flash images for most nokia phones Mar 19 20:08:23 http://www.6-sec.com/flashfiles2/FlashFile%20Support/Nokia/BB5/N95%20RM-159/ Mar 19 20:08:40 thats the n95 folder, going back you have a whole swath of them Mar 19 20:09:29 hello, i need to disable swap on my device so i can format my internal memory card, anyway to do this? the card is in read only mode Mar 19 20:09:42 lcuk: thanks Mar 19 20:10:13 where would i find this 2430 image and a dissassembler Mar 19 20:10:18 (and a dictionary) Mar 19 20:12:18 it's really strange nobody in #maemo has a n95 or some other 2420 based mobile :) Mar 19 20:12:35 * KotCzarny has n800 Mar 19 20:12:40 mobile & 2420 based :) Mar 19 20:12:50 well cell phone / mobile phone :) Mar 19 20:13:05 symbian s60 based phone :) Mar 19 20:13:05 n95 is like the good twin, n8x0 owners have long hair and black walls and a messy bedroom Mar 19 20:13:52 * KotCzarny has white walls Mar 19 20:13:53 hm... the only reference to OMAPSW_GFX_2430__L16.4_SDK.zip google finds is an old #maemo log Mar 19 20:14:54 nay idea? Mar 19 20:15:42 fugitivo: swapoff? Mar 19 20:16:08 the read only bug can prevent turning swap off Mar 19 20:16:11 fugitivo: mount -o remount,rw /media/mmcX and then swapoff Mar 19 20:16:13 jott: I have n95 :) Mar 19 20:16:24 X-Fade: then post the driver :) Mar 19 20:16:40 jott: I wouldn't know how :) Mar 19 20:16:55 take some file explorer and seek the disks :) Mar 19 20:17:11 fugitivo: one solution - remove card, reformat partition on PC card reader, insert card Mar 19 20:17:13 jott: You can't see the os files.. Mar 19 20:17:24 even with 3rd party file explorers? Mar 19 20:17:49 Doesn't look like it. Mar 19 20:18:09 x-fade: it runs on symbian? Mar 19 20:18:28 X-Fade: are there any tools to dump flash contents? Mar 19 20:18:30 KotCzarny: Yep. Mar 19 20:18:35 if you run the usb flash update it extracts the file somewhere - probably temp - how about checking whilst the update is on screen Mar 19 20:18:40 pupnik: can the internal card be removed? Mar 19 20:18:41 pH5: Wouldn't know. Mar 19 20:18:52 http://ati.amd.com/developer/AMDOpenGL_ES2_emulator.html AMD opengl ES2 emulator Mar 19 20:18:55 pH5: i got a C0R file extracted Mar 19 20:19:02 fugitivo: sorry i thought you had n800 Mar 19 20:19:04 X-Fade, any chance you can run it (i doubt you even need to have it plugged in) Mar 19 20:19:31 that contains references to Drivers\Display\PowerVR :) Mar 19 20:19:47 jott: hmm, not it gets interesting :) Mar 19 20:19:49 pupnik: it's an n810, i have the same problem as this (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14416), but i can't format it because i'm using swap and the system is mounting it in read-only Mar 19 20:19:58 lcuk: Run what? Mar 19 20:20:10 s/not/now/ Mar 19 20:20:10 pH5 meant: jott: hmm, now it gets interesting :) Mar 19 20:20:16 the nokia system updater - it contains a flash image doesnt it - but dont worry for now Mar 19 20:20:23 there may be other ways Mar 19 20:20:29 pH5: UWfirmforce does not find any useful structures .. Mar 19 20:20:55 what filesystem does symbian use? fat? Mar 19 20:20:56 lcuk: I already looked at a flash file once. And it looked a lot like a FIASCO image.. Mar 19 20:21:12 pupnik: how can i prevent the device of mounting the card? Mar 19 20:21:48 i tried removing it from /etc/fstab but didn't work Mar 19 20:21:49 mount -o rw,remount /media/mmc2 fugitivo Mar 19 20:22:13 pupnik: oh, that worked :) thanks a lot Mar 19 20:22:31 yw Mar 19 20:23:06 http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/sdk/KhronosOpenGLES2xSGX.asp hmm powervr OGL ES 2.0 sdk Mar 19 20:24:50 hmm atleast there are nice strings like 11Idle3DEvent.11TAIdleEvent.12EventContext.14EVMDallocEvent.16DMBXPowerHandler.16DResourceHandler.18TSignallingDfcData.23DVariantMbxPowerHandler.23TAContextInterruptEvent.26TDfcCreateCommandQueueData.27TDfcDestroyCommandQueueData.33TDfcDisplayCreateCommandQueueData.5DBase Mar 19 20:25:19 mbx doesn't do es2 Mar 19 20:25:20 i think Mar 19 20:25:30 jott: oh cool, can you see arm code? I feared the file system image would be compressed. Mar 19 20:25:41 pH5: looks very uncompressed Mar 19 20:25:41 jott: But isn't that a userspace tool? Mar 19 20:26:01 jott: terrific. can you teach me how to extract? Mar 19 20:26:05 The binary driver seemed to communicate with some userspace daemon.. Mar 19 20:26:31 pH5: hmm so in the archive.. mmh Mar 19 20:26:58 N95_8GB_RM-320_11.0.026_By_ALLAL123.rar Mar 19 20:27:26 hmm where did i get this.. hmm ;) Mar 19 20:27:38 X-Fade: I think it's the same in the omap2430 sdk. most of the driver control lives in libsrv_um_1.1.33.561.so, the kernel driver is only for interrupt handling, memory allocation and setup/teardown Mar 19 20:28:24 pH5: Well, that means you are half done already :D Mar 19 20:29:02 X-Fade: but then again I've already disassembled half of the userspace library to understand what goes on in the kernel ;) Mar 19 20:29:16 who-hoo! Mar 19 20:29:57 pH5: So why don't you put those 2 halves together? Mar 19 20:30:03 hmmm jott, i just found the same thing but mines a zip ;) Mar 19 20:30:37 talking to the pvr is going to be like talking to the dsp Mar 19 20:30:56 lcuk: Black box? Mar 19 20:31:02 X-Fade: because I've taken apart the easy/obvious halves :D Mar 19 20:31:12 somethine like dspgateway? Mar 19 20:31:34 basically yer - here set yourself to X*y, here is a load of triangles. Now please deposit it at this location Mar 19 20:32:26 i really cant see it being much more difficult Mar 19 20:32:34 "If you want to be serious about DSP programming, you want to have the debugger Mar 19 20:32:35 and the JTAG cable! Mar 19 20:32:59 and gallons of patience and understanding and no kids or cats to interupt Mar 19 20:33:00 http://open.neurostechnology.com/node/1020 Ti c54x notes Mar 19 20:33:22 do you have a closet? Mar 19 20:33:44 yer but im not stepping into it - that would imply at some time i would have to leave Mar 19 20:33:58 * lcuk will never step out of the cloeset :D Mar 19 20:34:25 without extra e of course Mar 19 20:35:22 regarding black box debugging - who manages to compile and test and debug code directly on the device after compiling in scratchbox? Mar 19 20:37:23 i dunno, just thought some of the dspheads might find the link interesting Mar 19 20:38:15 i certainly do :) when you are testing your programs do you test directly on device or do you run in scratchbox on x86 Mar 19 20:38:37 personally i always run on device Mar 19 20:39:02 nfs share, gdb and oprofile kernel on device Mar 19 20:39:04 same here, and i dont fall apart if it breaks Mar 19 20:39:16 ahhh you actually have a debugging kernel Mar 19 20:40:05 does it help? Mar 19 20:40:20 do the neuros guys actually have some nice dsp code that could be reused? Mar 19 20:40:33 * lcuk reads code until i find a bug Mar 19 20:40:53 this one? http://updates.pepper.com/pub/pepperpad/sources/pepperpad2/3.0.3/pvrdrv.ko.tar Mar 19 20:41:15 2.6 Mar 19 20:41:20 but not working Mar 19 20:41:22 :) Mar 19 20:41:55 it probably not omap but pxa Mar 19 20:42:40 also it's supposedly a dumb framebuffer driver only. Mar 19 20:42:51 1.2mb dumb fb? Mar 19 20:42:52 :) Mar 19 20:43:17 does symbian use the same abi? Mar 19 20:43:22 microsoft driver Mar 19 20:43:46 i'd be happy with a vsync driven double-buffer solution at < 400x240 right now Mar 19 20:44:03 xv does but its not rgb Mar 19 20:44:42 ah so mplayer at < 400x240 will use page-flipping? Mar 19 20:45:28 no, i believe the hardware on the lcd supports 2 800*480*yuv12 frames but dont quote me on that Mar 19 20:46:00 i havent managed to get it tearing yet no matter what i do and an empty render loop is locked to 27fps Mar 19 20:46:29 OK thanks. I can't deal with this now. But tearing is really annoying Mar 19 20:46:30 ok Mar 19 20:46:52 i would have used sdl if i could have had tear free 800*480 but im working through with xv Mar 19 20:46:55 just looks so amateur when an emu skips a frame or doesn't have tearsync Mar 19 20:47:00 ahk Mar 19 20:47:12 yuv12 is 25% smaller than rgb16 :> Mar 19 20:47:13 hopefully you can share something near end of march Mar 19 20:47:16 yep Mar 19 20:47:26 im getting quite adventurous - im playing with color Mar 19 20:47:50 yer as soon as i tear out the horrid hard paths Mar 19 20:48:01 which every time i look into it i wanna rewrite the font code which... Mar 19 20:48:14 * lcuk has a list as long as his arm Mar 19 20:48:57 by the way - whats the best way of handling options without using the command line for a program that has no interface? Mar 19 20:49:07 im compiling every time at the mo :S Mar 19 20:49:49 * lcuk slaps his forehead and writes an option file Mar 19 20:50:08 ? Mar 19 20:50:11 argv[] ? Mar 19 20:50:13 :> Mar 19 20:50:20 ahm. Mar 19 20:50:24 i get argv nicely stored away Mar 19 20:50:25 read a file Mar 19 20:50:51 i just call with a script and cant keep changing the script just to change a param to try something Mar 19 20:51:03 its faster to just comment out a variation on a function call and resend Mar 19 20:51:42 like when i was playing with display sizes ive got about 10 calls with different resolutions all commented just leaving one open Mar 19 20:52:49 and wiring options from the front to the depths of the code is again longer than having another variation... Mar 19 20:53:36 pipe read? Mar 19 20:54:48 actually - ive got argv and a whole app_..() set of functions available, i think ill just write in a few if(app_option("colormode")){...} type things around for now and make app_option use argv Mar 19 20:55:37 what would pipe reading be? Mar 19 20:55:53 some kind of scripting language? Mar 19 20:55:55 slave mode? Mar 19 20:56:08 lcuk, what language? Mar 19 20:56:08 like: DRAW x=243 bpp=4\n Mar 19 20:56:15 im in raw c Mar 19 20:56:15 hi, how do i make the SD card mount to somewhere other than /media on boot? does fstab work? it doesn't seem to affect anything Mar 19 20:56:45 lcuk, gconf or gkeyfile maybe? Mar 19 20:57:33 kot, no need for scripting lang at the moment, ive created myself a few apis - app_open(..) canvass_open(...) book_open(...) with assoc other calls related and have been trying total variations for background rendering etc using the same simple central code Mar 19 20:58:14 jku, essentially a registry - it might work Mar 19 20:58:15 lcuk: but it could help you testing different opitions Mar 19 20:58:18 i guess Mar 19 20:59:16 lcuk, gkeyfile is fast to implement, gconf is more work but a pretty good solution for user settings (with change-signals and such) Mar 19 20:59:19 its like ive got a whole xv graphics library now which draws glyphs and lines and rectangles and works on an xv shm backbuffer- but at the start i had a sdl Mar 19 21:00:08 jku, thanks i might take a look later when i get my head into it Mar 19 21:00:16 so gconf is nice for changing options during runtime Mar 19 21:01:11 gconf edits are persisted and edited like using regedit arent they Mar 19 21:01:35 i wonder how long it would take me to get a basic version of MUI up and running Mar 19 21:01:39 basically yes Mar 19 21:01:42 infact, is MUI around? Mar 19 21:02:46 * lcuk stops himself from looking and stays a bit focused Mar 19 21:03:28 right, im going stripping out all rel paths and seeing if i can get this essentially dependency free and allowing options Mar 19 21:04:48 by the way, has anyone used the pressure sensitive mouse options from the wiki? i implimented the rawmode and got it working, but now under certain circumstances i lose mouse events (namely the trailing 0 to indicate mouseup) Mar 19 21:09:37 Aloha! Mar 19 21:11:46 re Mar 19 21:14:24 hum Mar 19 21:15:13 otoh enabling 3d could be hindered by very low amount of vram available Mar 19 21:16:45 Hmm, three members of maemo leaving Nokia at the same time. Mar 19 21:16:57 5 in the morning? Mar 19 21:19:24 Jaffa: actually 4, jobi just doesn't have a blog :) Mar 19 21:23:05 tko, just a coincidence? Mar 19 21:23:53 maybe not :P Mar 19 21:24:02 ah, tko:"some I’ll be seeing again soon enough" Mar 19 21:25:15 tko: good luck with your future stuff - hope you've got something exciting lined up Mar 19 21:28:37 * pupnik speculates Mar 19 21:29:39 yeah man good luck :) Mar 19 21:30:02 What's the technology that will make ITOS more flashy while providing backward compatibility to hildon stuff. Mar 19 21:30:14 Gtk 3 Mar 19 21:30:33 ty Mar 19 21:31:09 powervr? :P Mar 19 21:31:16 ok i should stop joking around Mar 19 21:31:44 btw, planning to make a half res mode for kagu, black borders, 400x240 ui area in the middle Mar 19 21:31:52 pupnik: I guess some new flashy WM Mar 19 21:31:54 using Composite Mar 19 21:32:03 more fadeouts and slides Mar 19 21:32:12 Clutter/EDJE seem to be suitably flashy, too Mar 19 21:33:01 cheers all. there's something lined up, will post more soon enough Mar 19 21:33:02 edje looks flashy yeah, if only i liked the scripting language Mar 19 21:33:08 :) Mar 19 21:33:13 hehe Mar 19 21:33:16 cheers tko - happy trails Mar 19 21:33:18 * koos wondering too if last days news means the move is clutter or Qtopia Mar 19 21:33:19 it should've been written in Python Mar 19 21:33:24 ;P Mar 19 21:33:45 tko: you going to be hanging around hereabouts, still? Mar 19 21:34:26 Jaffa: in Europe, not in Finland Mar 19 21:34:35 Qtopia is overrated Mar 19 21:34:44 C++ on mobile devices, yeah, that's what everyone needs ;P Mar 19 21:34:59 tko: pah, who said anything about meatspace? ;-) Mar 19 21:35:55 Jaffa: heh, silly me Mar 19 21:36:28 I fancy N850 being a Lisp machine Mar 19 21:36:31 * AStorm hides Mar 19 21:44:57 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12719&contentId=27458 Mar 19 21:45:01 OMAP2430 SDKs Mar 19 21:45:07 Open GL ES v1.1 and OpenVG 1.0 SDK based on OMAPSW vL16.4 BSP, use GCC-3.4.4 Tool Chain Mar 19 21:45:08 hum Mar 19 21:45:26 OpenSource Kernel v2.6.10 Mar 19 21:45:27 hum Mar 19 21:45:35 * KotCzarny cries Mar 19 21:47:04 i say we make a bootloader for uae4all. no ITOS at all :P Mar 19 21:48:16 http://www.ti.com/corp/docs/oss/opensource.html Mar 19 21:48:44 that would be cool if it would include all needed drivers Mar 19 21:49:05 While we will not have general availability through our distributors until April 2008, Mar 19 21:49:20 april is just around the corner Mar 19 21:49:20 :> Mar 19 21:50:48 http://sourceforge.net/projects/dspdap/ Mar 19 21:50:49 :) Mar 19 21:57:21 KotCzarny: why are you crying? Mar 19 21:58:22 why don't they use GCC 4.x? Mar 19 21:58:23 because nokia have not included any support for pvr Mar 19 21:58:29 does it generate larger files or what? Mar 19 22:01:57 I turned off the statusbar icon for pidgin, and now I can't get the buudylist window back Mar 19 22:02:19 without closing all my chats Mar 19 22:13:35 JasonWoof, lol Mar 19 22:13:45 Use rtcomm instead ^_^ Mar 19 22:16:42 that the builtin one? Mar 19 22:20:54 JasonWoof, yeah Mar 19 22:21:33 is there a way to get it to do jabber and irc?? Mar 19 22:21:57 It's jabber by default Mar 19 22:22:12 Install the Calabora extras or the beta release for IRC Mar 19 22:22:20 Still, both Pidgin and rtcomm blow hard for IRC Mar 19 22:22:23 Use Xchat instead. Mar 19 22:23:05 oh, ipthen it was aim that it didn't do Mar 19 22:23:19 s/ip// Mar 19 22:23:19 JasonWoof meant: oh, then it was aim that it didn't do Mar 19 22:23:22 It does AIM with Colabora Mar 19 22:23:27 or the beta release Mar 19 22:23:42 cool, thanks Mar 19 22:23:55 cool bot :) Mar 19 22:43:00 just a repost: http://wiki.hbmobile.org/index.php?title=Application_Processor_Benchmarks Mar 19 22:45:25 jott: looks like plain thumb code, which is nice. bad news is that until I learn anything about this unistore-ii format of the .C0R file, it's just a 67M binary blob to me, and I have no better idea than to loosely search around in the general vincinity of the pvr strings you found. Mar 19 22:48:56 pH5: yeah, i wonder if there are some specification of it .. can't be too complicated Mar 19 22:49:24 i suppose there has to be some FAT in there.. Mar 19 22:49:51 there's some FAT file system inside, but the 'XSR' in the beginning makes me believe that there might well be some moving blocks around going on. Mar 19 22:50:11 google XSR, unistore-ii, onenand Mar 19 22:50:31 I've only seen overview documents until now, but there has to be something out there :) Mar 19 22:50:57 have you looked at the samsung pdf? Mar 19 22:51:10 http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/products/flash/downloads/unistoreII_v151_installation_guide_web.pdf Mar 19 22:51:57 looks like some useful information in it :) Mar 19 22:51:57 yes. but either I'm very tired or there's no useful info inside. Mar 19 22:52:03 hmm Mar 19 22:52:15 well atleast some conceptual stuff and some basic structure Mar 19 22:52:26 but most of it can be obtained by close looking i suppose :) Mar 19 22:52:33 jott: yeah, I probably shall look at it again Mar 19 22:54:21 i'm just wondering as i thought there would be more symbian firmware hacking going on ;) Mar 19 23:03:54 jott, i dont see that much of it - maybe maemo deflects those who want a hackable Mar 19 23:04:38 big shiney lights lure the hackers in and then dont see the point of shelling out again for something with a lower res screen ;) Mar 19 23:04:46 a pity, I always like to discover that other people already have done the hard work Mar 19 23:05:06 good night Mar 19 23:05:07 on the other nseries nokia are supporting them Mar 19 23:05:19 they are getting the ngage platform which makes use of pvr Mar 19 23:06:29 the paple only looks so shiney because they have lots of blittability thanks to the pvr Mar 19 23:06:39 hmm *apple Mar 19 23:07:13 iphone has multitouch screen Mar 19 23:07:59 multi touch isnt everything, though its very nice Mar 19 23:08:05 and usefull Mar 19 23:08:09 i cant cope with the low resolution tho Mar 19 23:08:40 it wasnt much better than my old pda - the 810 is glorious at full res Mar 19 23:09:29 yeah Mar 19 23:10:10 it would be a pity if they abandon n8x0 in favour of the next one Mar 19 23:10:42 I wish there was a way for kernel bootup to be verbose on n770 :( is there any way to do that? Mar 19 23:10:52 probably Mar 19 23:12:05 hey KotCzarny :D Mar 19 23:12:26 hi admin Mar 19 23:12:54 im pretty much considering this a fixed platform right now - its not a problem as long as ive got the tools to code in it Mar 19 23:13:08 yup Mar 19 23:13:15 having sdk is nice Mar 19 23:13:16 :) Mar 19 23:13:33 everything is going to be archived and kept with a cd in its box - a whole sdk and main important debs Mar 19 23:13:36 guess the answer's a no :( Mar 19 23:13:49 admin: why do you need it? Mar 19 23:13:50 admin, i dont tihnk we can even do that on 810 Mar 19 23:14:00 just insert dmesg >/tmp/dmesg.log early in rc2.d Mar 19 23:14:02 somewhere Mar 19 23:14:35 it'll just look cool :P Mar 19 23:14:45 nope Mar 19 23:14:49 KotCzarny: I mean to the actual boot screen Mar 19 23:15:02 while booting, like if you amend verbose to a kernel in GRUB or something Mar 19 23:15:56 Is anyone aware of where the device name is stored? The name that is displayed when you go to control panel -> memory -> storage tab, device details Mar 19 23:15:57 why not try and hack your 810 to do it ;) be the first to display tux in the box ;) Mar 19 23:16:08 admin: have you tried xrandr patch? it's much better than bootup messages Mar 19 23:16:26 lcuk: that's pretty easy Mar 19 23:16:32 just replace one file ;) Mar 19 23:16:42 I didn't KotCzarny Mar 19 23:17:33 read: screen rotation Mar 19 23:17:35 :) Mar 19 23:17:53 o_o Mar 19 23:17:55 sse2.net/rotate/ Mar 19 23:18:01 well it'll not work on n770 :p Mar 19 23:18:01 ..why Mar 19 23:18:07 ah Mar 19 23:18:09 i forgot Mar 19 23:18:21 sorry for that :) Mar 19 23:18:28 i though he has n8x0 Mar 19 23:18:29 but you can enable kernel messages in the .config file.. Mar 19 23:18:44 just make sure auto update for the lcd is enabled Mar 19 23:18:53 :o Mar 19 23:19:12 do people use googlepages for their blogs? Mar 19 23:19:36 maybe so extra initfs hacking to disable the bootup screen if you want it to be uninterrupted :) Mar 19 23:19:59 jott: what would happen if specified file was deleted? Mar 19 23:20:00 :> Mar 19 23:20:50 which file? Mar 19 23:21:00 two of them actually Mar 19 23:21:06 that show during bootup Mar 19 23:21:24 oh.. haven't tested but afair it's just a simple sh script anyway Mar 19 23:21:26 they're loaded from fs Mar 19 23:21:51 that handles the display Mar 19 23:24:12 ok../ Mar 20 00:05:56 hi, i just replaced some icons on my N810 but they won't change to the new ones.. any ideas why? Mar 20 00:06:10 icon cache Mar 20 00:06:17 there was a command to rebuild it Mar 20 00:06:28 ah Mar 20 00:06:34 gtk-something -f /usr/share/icons/hi-color/ Mar 20 00:06:36 or something Mar 20 00:07:04 got it Mar 20 00:07:33 thanks Mar 20 00:18:14 hello Mar 20 00:18:58 is it possible to connect an 3g data card over usb and use it for internet radio or just browsing in the internet? Mar 20 00:19:17 data card? what's that? Mar 20 00:20:35 anyone here happen to be using safari 3.1 on mac/windows yet? Mar 20 00:20:43 I need a hint; on my N800 I like to start a graphical framebuffer application rather than the Maemo/Nokia window manager as the default. I.e. I dont want maemo-launcher Mar 20 00:20:58 Where can I hack this in OS2008? Mar 20 00:21:05 Lubomir, a 3g card will get you anything internet related Mar 20 00:21:15 the hard part is getting the drivers setup. Mar 20 00:21:20 disable hw watchdog and explore /etc/rc2.d/ Mar 20 00:21:33 I guess that there are similar files as /etc/inittab and /etc/rc.local Mar 20 00:22:25 GeneralAntilles, does the N800/N810 support those cards? Mar 20 00:22:34 Search on ITT Mar 20 00:22:36 what kernel is on that devices? Mar 20 00:22:41 I haven't bothered to investigate Mar 20 00:22:43 ITT=? Mar 20 00:22:46 as I just tether Mar 20 00:22:48 internettablettalk.com Mar 20 00:23:44 KotCzarny: /etc/rc2.d seems fine - I can do this, but the hw watchdog - what/where is this? Mar 20 00:23:59 the perfect thing were getting gentoo linux compiled on that device. then i dont need any more an expencive umpc with x86 cpu ^^ Mar 20 00:24:15 pto: process that keeps kernel from rebooting Mar 20 00:24:33 ok Mar 20 00:25:02 i think it also watches some crucial tasks Mar 20 00:25:09 Debian's armel port is much much farther along than Gentoo's. Mar 20 00:26:09 there is a port of debian to that device? Mar 20 00:26:41 Debian on N800? Mar 20 00:26:41 http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian Mar 20 00:26:47 oooh Mar 20 00:26:51 :/ Mar 20 00:26:51 but when there were ANY chance to get gentoo on it, i would do that. Then i will went tomorrow in the city and buy the n810 :-D Mar 20 00:27:19 I don't know of anybody putting much work into getting Gentoo going specifically for the N8x0s Mar 20 00:27:23 gentoo on an IT? you'd kill your tablet within the first week! Mar 20 00:27:24 well there are chances to run any linux distribution that more or less supports arm on it :) Mar 20 00:27:25 getting gentoo on it is not a problem, drivers are :> Mar 20 00:27:56 MangoFusion, why? Mar 20 00:28:16 all distributions (but os200x) have the same problem.. drivers and power management... Mar 20 00:28:19 well for one you'd wear out the flash from all the compiling. then the processor would blow up Mar 20 00:28:27 KotCzarny, why? I have gentoo running on my tablet pc here ;-) Mar 20 00:28:30 though that is just a theory ;) Mar 20 00:28:37 lubomir: drivers are binary blobs Mar 20 00:28:38 Im trying to launch the app-launcher python-efl example but i get a "failed to load edje" error. is this a known problem? Mar 20 00:28:38 MangoFusion: you do not need to compile everything ON the device Mar 20 00:28:40 :) Mar 20 00:29:28 i do not need to compile everything in the device. i can do cross-compiling Mar 20 00:30:41 KotCzarny, what drivers exactly? Mar 20 00:31:04 at least wifi Mar 20 00:31:49 KotCzarny, wifi ist not so important, because i wanted to use my own usb wifi card Mar 20 00:31:58 something else? Mar 20 00:32:07 power management Mar 20 00:32:08 bme/dsme Mar 20 00:32:15 jott mentioned power management Mar 20 00:32:16 your device will just live an hour or so :) Mar 20 00:32:54 jott: but using nokia's kernel will help that? Mar 20 00:33:02 jott, that can be solved with external battery with nokia power connector until i get that workin Mar 20 00:33:07 or it's userspace controlled? Mar 20 00:33:12 it's userspace Mar 20 00:33:16 initfs Mar 20 00:33:30 would like to use an normal 2.6.25 kernel ;-) Mar 20 00:33:51 well if you use the underlying stuff (i.e. bme and umac kernel module) you can run pretty much everything Mar 20 00:34:19 like in userspace Mar 20 00:35:16 well getting wifi with other kernel versions should be do-able with the binary umac blob Mar 20 00:35:23 but bme is more serious Mar 20 00:38:07 the question is, what do you expect from the device? or what do you want to do with it.. Mar 20 00:39:04 jott, would the installation be like that? boot from usb, insert an 16GB SDHC card, load an sparc kernel and an sparc stage3 (is that the correct one for arm?), compile my things on the device, ready ? Mar 20 00:39:19 arm is arm :) Mar 20 00:39:31 just follow the debian wiki entry. Mar 20 00:39:42 it should apply to pretty much every arm based distribution at large Mar 20 00:40:05 though arm in gentoo is quite unmaintained last time i checked Mar 20 00:41:09 jott, i want to play with linux on the way. in my car, i want to connect an usb hsdpa card that is connected to an external umts antenna and hear internet-radio (do that at the moment with my n95 connected to the car-radio). Also i want to use and external bluetooth mouse and keyboard and use openoffice at univerity on that device Mar 20 00:41:38 you can do pretty much of all this with os2008 :) Mar 20 00:41:53 yes? Mar 20 00:42:00 :) Mar 20 00:42:08 i would miss my layman,portage,... Mar 20 00:42:09 well don't know about the usb card but gentoo wouldn't help there :) Mar 20 00:42:10 ^^ Mar 20 00:42:30 yeah well apt is not that bad ;) Mar 20 00:42:33 not sure about openoffice Mar 20 00:42:39 Just tether to the N95 Mar 20 00:42:56 oo runs ok via vnc/rdp/x forwarding Mar 20 00:43:11 or use abiword :) Mar 20 00:43:15 on the device Mar 20 00:43:16 Or KDE Mar 20 00:43:20 or kde Mar 20 00:43:27 and koffice Mar 20 00:43:29 GeneralAntilles, i want an external antenna, because with the n95 i do not have such a stable connection Mar 20 00:43:31 actually, there's no way you can run openoffice there Mar 20 00:44:06 shackan: "no way" is probably untrue... Mar 20 00:44:19 is there not just an gcc where i can run "make" and wait 1day and i have that on there? Mar 20 00:44:19 not convenient / not fast maybe.. Mar 20 00:44:26 is there anyway to scrap maemo/hildon off a 770? Mar 20 00:44:35 and replace it with just X? Mar 20 00:44:43 Lubomir: you have scratchbox, or you could use openembedded Mar 20 00:44:54 you can also install gcc on the device Mar 20 00:45:29 it's pretty much a linux device with a couple of closed source blobs.. Mar 20 00:45:58 i think i will buy an n810 and play a bit with it after i have written the 3 tests at the university at the end of that month Mar 20 00:46:05 ;-) Mar 20 00:46:06 Toma-: maemo/hildon uses X :) Mar 20 00:46:19 lubomir: you can start playing with scratchbox now Mar 20 00:46:27 and actually test the programs Mar 20 00:46:28 :) Mar 20 00:46:34 jott? i see there are some watchdog processes that make sure hildon gets up and running tho? Mar 20 00:46:55 just disable the watchdog .. it's annoying anyway ;) Mar 20 00:47:18 jott: yeah, hw reset would be nicer ;) Mar 20 00:47:36 jott, i see you are one of the helper/devs of the debian on n8x0 project ^^ Mar 20 00:48:06 oh, sound do not work? Mar 20 00:48:10 well i did some poking.. but did not have the time to dig much further.. Mar 20 00:48:28 but i hope an external usb sound card of a2dp is working Mar 20 00:48:36 or,not of Mar 20 00:49:07 then i can just conect to the bluetooth radio in the car Mar 20 00:50:21 well if you want to have a (linux) device you can "just use" (and may do some extra hacking) the stock os2008 is quite ok Mar 20 00:51:10 if you want to poke and play around (getting debian/gentoo/whatever on it) - well you can always do this but it all need quite a bit of work ;) Mar 20 00:51:46 jott, can i "destroy" the device with such playing? Mar 20 00:52:01 not really Mar 20 00:52:02 as long as the bootloader is fine there should be no problem Mar 20 00:52:06 unless you erase bootloader Mar 20 00:52:07 :> Mar 20 00:52:22 jott, is the bootloader an normal grub in mdr? Mar 20 00:52:25 but flashing kernel/initfs/rootfs won't do it Mar 20 00:52:37 no its some embedded loader Mar 20 00:52:55 no grub possible? Mar 20 00:53:00 but if you just use normal flash tool to upload kernel/rootfs/initfs its all fine Mar 20 00:53:01 lubomir: and you can play safe by installing fanoush boot menu and booting to mmc Mar 20 00:53:06 so if you borken all the flash totally no matter what the boot loader will still fire? Mar 20 00:53:25 lcuk: boot loader is the first 128kb of builtin flash Mar 20 00:53:59 is it user modifiable? Mar 20 00:54:02 and there is always serial/jtag to do serious repair work ;p Mar 20 00:54:04 i think an normal grub also do not take much more space Mar 20 00:54:16 lcuk: define 'modifiable' Mar 20 00:54:22 yes, you can overwrite it Mar 20 00:54:24 jott, thanks. that with jtag was my next question ^^ Mar 20 00:54:31 as for adding features i don't know Mar 20 00:54:32 :) Mar 20 00:54:58 *flash = 0xdeadbeef; Mar 20 00:55:06 lcuk, if the flash which the bootloader is on is shot, then it wont work anymore. :P Mar 20 00:55:13 but i see no point in getting grub on it.. u-boot would be a better approach.. Mar 20 00:55:36 i dont mean shot - i maen wiped/overwritten Mar 20 00:55:49 grub has support for mtd ? Mar 20 00:55:51 but this is some really low level hacking Mar 20 00:55:58 lcuk: yes Mar 20 00:56:07 Then you'd have to get it back to normal with jtag. Mar 20 00:56:31 right - but with jtag it is recoverable because you can squirt code into the device Mar 20 00:56:48 but that will require opening the device Mar 20 00:56:52 and probably soldering Mar 20 00:56:53 :> Mar 20 00:56:58 or just clamping Mar 20 00:57:01 i wonder if grub runs on anything !x86 :) Mar 20 00:57:19 yer i know - i just wondered how stable they are :) very well designed Mar 20 00:57:44 lcuk: same goes for wrt54g Mar 20 00:57:44 ;) Mar 20 00:57:53 similiar philosophy Mar 20 00:57:56 yes i can see now Mar 20 00:58:14 the router is just another full headless box Mar 20 00:58:28 the internal rom is 256mb. then i could use it like now my 100mb partition to put the kernels inside and make multi-boot linux system on one or more 16gb cards. can i also put os2008 on an sd-card? Mar 20 00:58:35 it's not rom Mar 20 00:58:37 it's flash Mar 20 00:58:38 :) Mar 20 00:58:56 jott, i think i have seen grub on ppc Mar 20 00:58:56 yes you can boot os2008 from sd.. Mar 20 00:59:12 my very first hard drive was a quantum fireball and it had 245mb :) i thought i would never fill it Mar 20 00:59:12 without repartitioning Mar 20 00:59:13 :) Mar 20 00:59:19 but the bootloader does not allow to choose a different kernel Mar 20 00:59:26 245mb! Mar 20 00:59:31 * GeneralAntilles had 50MB Mar 20 00:59:34 atleast on the device Mar 20 00:59:34 jott: how about kexec? Mar 20 00:59:40 this device makes me smile :) Mar 20 00:59:47 KotCzarny: never tried but could work Mar 20 01:00:05 but that would require modified initfs i guess Mar 20 01:00:14 or kernel with initramfs Mar 20 01:00:14 jott, thats why i like grub ^^. just press "e" and choose an oter kernel ;-) Mar 20 01:00:49 or use something more embedded like uboot Mar 20 01:00:56 lubomir: make a kernel with initramfs that will present you a list of kernels ;) Mar 20 01:01:16 okay, must buy the nokia first ;-) Mar 20 01:01:31 yeah just buy it - you'll like it :) Mar 20 01:01:39 :> Mar 20 01:02:14 and when selling it i do not loose so much money like selling again an normal umpc Mar 20 01:02:44 and if you buy used you loose even less Mar 20 01:02:44 ;) Mar 20 01:02:57 would the oqo e2 have now the new intel cpu and ANY nvidia card, that i would buy it Mar 20 01:02:59 though it's bad for economy ;) Mar 20 01:03:24 KotCzarny: bad for nokia not for economy :) Mar 20 01:03:44 jott: it's true not only for nokia :) Mar 20 01:04:17 nokia, and ONLY nokia ;> Mar 20 01:04:24 huh Mar 20 01:04:24 :) Mar 20 01:04:27 have nokia tell someting about the future of that devices? Mar 20 01:04:28 *g* Mar 20 01:04:47 what comes after the n810 Mar 20 01:04:50 lubomir: nope, but everybody expects wimax Mar 20 01:04:54 :> Mar 20 01:05:05 *expect Mar 20 01:05:10 Lubomir: not really.. but i suspect another omap2420 with wimax ;> Mar 20 01:05:12 i hope i wont have wimax... Mar 20 01:05:31 wimax doesnt sound very nokiaesque Mar 20 01:06:09 jaska: what the deal with sprint means then? Mar 20 01:06:10 :) Mar 20 01:06:12 i do not like the gps inside that is in the n810 at the moment. i must pay for that and i do not need it Mar 20 01:06:21 lubomir: go n800 and bt kb Mar 20 01:06:24 :) Mar 20 01:06:31 half the price, same fun :) Mar 20 01:06:35 wouldnt know about american stuff tho Mar 20 01:07:00 an internal keyboard would be nice... Mar 20 01:07:37 and there is realy no other hardware change? Mar 20 01:07:44 between n800 and n810 Mar 20 01:07:52 the n810 is a bit smaller Mar 20 01:07:54 lookd different Mar 20 01:08:06 gps, keyboard, rgb color led ;) Mar 20 01:08:06 and has 1 sd slot less Mar 20 01:08:21 2gb internal + minisd instead of 2 normal sd Mar 20 01:08:33 so n800: 2xSD + 256mb, n810: 1xminiSD + 2gb Mar 20 01:08:49 flash prices are going down all the time :) Mar 20 01:09:06 so for the future having 2x32gb could be nice feature Mar 20 01:09:10 jott, minisd, not micro sd? Mar 20 01:09:17 mini Mar 20 01:09:26 but micro will fit in mini slot with adapter ;) Mar 20 01:09:48 and is there an weight difference between them? Mar 20 01:10:30 but when the n810 is smaler ... Mar 20 01:10:30 no gps but 2 sd card slots would be more nice ;-) Mar 20 01:10:40 but no internal kb.. Mar 20 01:10:44 but much cheaper ;) Mar 20 01:10:46 gps sucks atm. in n810 Mar 20 01:10:47 :) Mar 20 01:11:01 * KotCzarny got igo ultraslim for 25$ Mar 20 01:11:02 ;) Mar 20 01:11:06 (bt kb) Mar 20 01:11:16 bt kb sucks for instant use :) Mar 20 01:11:27 for instant use i can use osk ;) Mar 20 01:11:41 yieks sucks even more ;P Mar 20 01:11:42 or thumb kb :) Mar 20 01:13:00 oh and the n810 has a transreflective display Mar 20 01:13:21 i have read it's not very good.. Mar 20 01:13:22 :) Mar 20 01:13:27 i like it Mar 20 01:13:41 but i have not seen the n800 under bad light conditions yet Mar 20 01:13:45 transreflective is that glossy? Mar 20 01:14:01 reading in full sunlight is tiring, and in dark colors are washed Mar 20 01:14:11 that's someone's opinion on it Mar 20 01:14:20 instead of seeing nothing?! ;) Mar 20 01:14:24 lubomir: it means, no backlight necessary Mar 20 01:14:37 (in the external light of course) Mar 20 01:14:47 *lighting Mar 20 01:14:58 jott: :) Mar 20 01:15:15 jott: i should go and look up n810 for it Mar 20 01:15:20 in the store etc Mar 20 01:15:35 yeah just have seen the n800 indoors yet ;) Mar 20 01:16:30 Lubomir: anyway i still would say, get a n810 if you really have the money or a n800 if you are fine with the missing kb ;) Mar 20 01:17:01 or if you like the design more Mar 20 01:17:02 :) Mar 20 01:17:06 N810 is 30g heavier. Mar 20 01:17:09 ah, that with the screen,"smaler" and the internal keyboard ( i would also use an bt keyboard ), are big points to get the n810 and not the n800 Mar 20 01:17:43 transflective means it reflects light back through the screen from behind the backlight Mar 20 01:17:44 GeneralAntilles: 20g according to wikipedia.. but it's wikipedia ;) Mar 20 01:17:49 not that the surface of the screen is glossy. Mar 20 01:17:54 30g is what I remember Mar 20 01:18:04 Either could be totally wrong. Mar 20 01:18:09 indeed Mar 20 01:18:50 ah,nice http://www.mobilelinuxinfo.com/476/asus-eee-701-vs-nokia-n810/ Mar 20 01:18:55 Lubomir: pretty much. price and potentially bigger storage are points for n800 Mar 20 01:19:11 i will get the n810 Mar 20 01:19:13 ;-) Mar 20 01:19:42 have used the eee pc on the cebit and now i see that the n810 is realy smal ^^ Mar 20 01:20:06 n810 price drop Mar 20 01:20:06 yeah well it's not an umpc brick it actually fits in the pocket ;) Mar 20 01:20:07 http://www.mobilelinuxinfo.com/515/nokia-n810-price-drop/ Mar 20 01:20:40 an oqo e2 its also not hevy and not big Mar 20 01:20:56 but does it fit in a normal pocket? ;) Mar 20 01:21:10 n800 is 7.23oz, n810 is 7.97 (according to nokiausa.com) Mar 20 01:21:28 now we need to convert this to sane metric units :P Mar 20 01:21:30 ~21g Mar 20 01:21:45 That's were pretty much all the other mobile Linux devices fall apart Mar 20 01:21:51 they're just not pocketable. Mar 20 01:22:06 Small is pretty irrelevant if it isn't _pocketable_ Mar 20 01:22:14 not true Mar 20 01:22:27 i have my backpack with me all the time Mar 20 01:22:38 so it's like a big pocket for me Mar 20 01:22:39 :) Mar 20 01:22:50 yieks handbag? ;) Mar 20 01:22:54 in germany the price is not fallen at the moment http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?phist=305259&age=183 Mar 20 01:22:57 backpack Mar 20 01:22:59 definitely Mar 20 01:23:01 :) Mar 20 01:23:22 lubomir: wait a week or two Mar 20 01:23:22 :) Mar 20 01:23:24 GeneralAntilles, not counting the zaurus line of course... Mar 20 01:23:35 or something like htc universal... Mar 20 01:23:39 KotCzarny, yes, will wait Mar 20 01:23:39 They're discontinued. :P Mar 20 01:23:52 so is n800 :P Mar 20 01:23:55 still widely available and still running linux though :P Mar 20 01:23:57 basically :) Mar 20 01:24:07 n810 is a n800 in disguise ;) Mar 20 01:24:16 Er, since when, jott? <_< Mar 20 01:24:20 Besides, the N810 is there. Mar 20 01:24:24 sure Mar 20 01:24:26 So you're point is irrelevant either way. :P Mar 20 01:24:30 it's not a big deal ;) Mar 20 01:24:35 s/you're/your/ Mar 20 01:24:35 GeneralAntilles meant: So your point is irrelevant either way. :P Mar 20 01:24:44 but i can't order a n800 at nokia store Mar 20 01:24:55 are there also "firmware updates" for such devices like on normal BB5 nokia phones? Mar 20 01:25:24 lubomir: more like rootfs' to reflash :) Mar 20 01:25:39 n800 had os2007, os2008 Mar 20 01:25:57 can i boot from usb? Mar 20 01:26:01 but you flash them yourself Mar 20 01:26:11 lubomir: yes, there's a way Mar 20 01:26:27 ok Mar 20 01:26:46 but it's network recovery mode Mar 20 01:26:47 ;) Mar 20 01:27:22 the biggest minisd is 4gb -.- Must buy the micro sd ... Mar 20 01:28:32 wow,found an 32gb extreme-speed sdhc ^^ Mar 20 01:28:44 what price? Mar 20 01:28:45 :) Mar 20 01:28:47 http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Item(2582)-SDSDRH-032G-A11-SanDisk_Ultra_II_SDHC_32GB_High_Performance_Card.aspx Mar 20 01:28:52 ah. big price. Mar 20 01:28:53 ;) Mar 20 01:29:04 same price as an complete n800 ^^ Mar 20 01:29:30 and it's sd Mar 20 01:29:32 I need some suggestions. How should I if I want to reflash the whole system of the N800.Thanks Mar 20 01:29:33 not minisd Mar 20 01:29:34 ;) Mar 20 01:30:02 yes, i know Mar 20 01:31:21 i will sleep now Mar 20 01:31:31 see us Mar 20 01:31:32 bye Mar 20 01:31:36 :) Mar 20 01:32:24 erm, jackylee, what's the question? Mar 20 01:33:42 Now my N800's os is os2008, but my maemo version is 3.x. Which should be 4.x. So I want to reflash the os to os2007 Mar 20 01:33:54 huh? Mar 20 01:34:04 you got it wrong.. Mar 20 01:34:21 unless you forced some packages.. Mar 20 01:34:32 os2008 is maemo4.x Mar 20 01:35:49 Why would you downgrade your device rather than upgrading the SDK? Mar 20 01:36:17 My network environment is not good, I tried several times to install online. All failed. Mar 20 01:38:41 jackylee: have you tried manual method? Mar 20 01:39:50 huh, saturn's rings are vanishing Mar 20 01:40:16 Not yet. I have take a look. I find that it have huge amount of packages to install when using install script. Mar 20 01:40:36 So, does that means I have to download a large amount of packets Mar 20 01:40:41 yes Mar 20 01:41:12 but running installer script should reuse already downloaded packages.. i think Mar 20 01:44:23 jackylee, try the vmware image? Mar 20 01:45:31 KotCzarny: i would say the rings are not as visible from the earth anymore due to relative rotation/angle :) Mar 20 01:45:40 jott: yeah ;) Mar 20 01:46:47 I dont't think so. I used to have the same opinion with you but it actully does not reuse already downloaded package.It start over again. And I even can not find the where the downloaded packages. I have search in the Mar 20 01:46:49 install script to find where the downloaded packages. Maybe if failed to install, it will delete all the packages Mar 20 01:46:49 i wonder how many great scientists in the last few hundered years wrote some exciting paper about the vanishing rings and where proven wrong :) Mar 20 01:46:51 downloaded Mar 20 01:47:46 GeneralAntilles, I haven't tried the vmware image. Would you give me some links on how to download it.Thanks Mar 20 01:48:18 http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ Mar 20 01:52:13 GeneralAntilles,Thanks Mar 20 01:52:39 OS2007 is a big downgrade. Downgrading your device for your SDK seems like a very big sacrifice. <_< Mar 20 01:54:31 GeneralAntilles,Have you tried the vmware image. Is it possible to build external kernel from it. Mar 20 01:54:40 * Cymor is away: dinner Mar 20 01:54:44 right .. so i got a bad situation here with the usb-otg-plugin Mar 20 01:55:00 fried nokia? Mar 20 01:55:02 :> Mar 20 01:55:26 * GeneralAntilles is on PPC. Mar 20 01:55:43 vmware is arch-less Mar 20 01:57:45 hmm Mar 20 01:57:48 or maybe is not Mar 20 01:58:00 pity Mar 20 01:58:05 KotCzarny: didn't fry Mar 20 01:58:10 i have always thought it's full x86 emu Mar 20 01:58:21 but was frozen for a bit Mar 20 01:58:57 ed: let us know if it starts rebooting by itself Mar 20 02:15:13 errordeveloper, i had that with mine - i drew too much power (my kb is rated at 100ma) and it did strange things until i popped the battery Mar 20 02:15:32 it worked perfectly when i pressed one key at a time, but the drain was too much when i mashed it Mar 20 02:18:29 Time for a powered hub. Mar 20 02:19:16 nahh i got an apple keyboard instead and im much happier wireless Mar 20 02:19:40 i cant use usb in my cradle cos of location of the kickstand Mar 20 02:20:39 anyway, bed time - ive done a lot tonight and am pleased :) Mar 20 02:22:56 This invalid? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3033 Mar 20 02:23:40 busyboxed tar has -z ? Mar 20 02:25:44 Nokia-N800-51-3:/tmp/ram# tar -xf mpfr-2.3.1.tar Mar 20 02:25:44 tar: invalid tar magic Mar 20 02:36:49 probably unsupported tar format Mar 20 02:37:05 gnu tar creates ustar Mar 20 02:37:25 yah busybox Mar 20 02:38:10 busybox also creates ustar Mar 20 02:38:58 http://www.busybox.net/lists/busybox/2006-November/025296.html Mar 20 02:39:00 hehe Mar 20 02:42:50 looks like busybox doesn't support v7 tar format Mar 20 02:42:50 :> Mar 20 02:42:53 old one Mar 20 02:43:30 yup. Mar 20 02:43:45 steps to replicate: tar -c --format=v7 Mar 20 02:43:46 ;) Mar 20 02:45:44 Log in to Bugzilla Mar 20 02:45:45 bleah. Mar 20 02:45:55 let someone else fill the report. Mar 20 02:50:15 anyone have trouble with virtual memory Mar 20 02:50:58 What sort of trouble? Mar 20 02:52:34 yeah, it seemed to trigger bugginess in the SD card driver Mar 20 02:56:02 sorry for delay, i cant create vm , had 48 tried to change to 128 get a error message Mar 20 02:56:46 Is the card ro? Mar 20 02:57:17 ? Mar 20 02:57:23 no Mar 20 02:57:30 full? Mar 20 02:57:31 :) Mar 20 02:57:54 Tried turning off and deleting the old swap? Mar 20 02:58:30 maybe it is in use? (too many apps open) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 20 02:59:56 2008