**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 25 02:59:56 2008
Mar 25 03:23:26 <koyote> well
Mar 25 03:23:32 <koyote> the fm radio app is pointless
Mar 25 03:25:14 <GeneralAntilles> Why?
Mar 25 03:25:52 <KotCzarny> you have to connect headphone
Mar 25 03:25:53 <KotCzarny> s
Mar 25 03:26:01 <KotCzarny> or any other cable to act as antenna
Mar 25 03:26:02 <KotCzarny> :>
Mar 25 03:26:07 <koyote> ahso.
Mar 25 03:26:12 <koyote> that might help then
Mar 25 03:26:25 <KotCzarny> i don't know why they don't simply put a little wire inside
Mar 25 03:26:37 <koyote> i can think of lots of reasons, actually
Mar 25 03:26:50 <koyote> all having to do with resonance in the 100mhz range :)
Mar 25 03:27:10 <koyote> now, happen to know the *real* range of the radio itself?
Mar 25 03:27:17 <KotCzarny> which radio?
Mar 25 03:27:28 <KotCzarny> wifi or fm?
Mar 25 03:27:32 <koyote> fm
Mar 25 03:27:38 <KotCzarny> nope
Mar 25 03:27:44 <KotCzarny> it depends on signal i guess
Mar 25 03:28:02 <KotCzarny> but i guess mhz-wise it's regular fm radio
Mar 25 03:28:03 <koyote> if it hits 140mhz, well a: I'll be shocked, but b: It'll be bonus points at the next ham meeting
Mar 25 03:28:05 <KotCzarny> 88-108
Mar 25 03:28:08 <koyote> I mean frequency range
Mar 25 03:28:15 <KotCzarny> fcc and stuff
Mar 25 03:28:31 <koyote> not necessarily. it's legal to receive outside 88-108
Mar 25 03:28:48 <koyote> that's what scanners and shortwave radios do, afterall.
Mar 25 04:33:06 <Italodance> hi
Mar 25 04:57:01 <ds3> that suggests and interesting idea
Mar 25 04:57:20 <ds3> wonder if it can be coaxed up to about 150MHz
Mar 25 04:58:29 <KotCzarny> how about approximating sine wave at 150mhz using wifi packets at 2.4xx ghz?
Mar 25 05:12:36 <ds3> good luck getting the details on how to do that :)
Mar 25 05:12:43 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 05:13:00 <ds3> but 150MHz would let it work as a 2M Ham radio monitor or even cover some weather stations
Mar 25 05:13:25 <ds3> the Ham radio mode might be tricky as ham uses NFM instead of the WFM that thing is setup for
Mar 25 05:13:32 <KotCzarny> usb/sd plug?
Mar 25 05:15:42 <ds3> eh?
Mar 25 05:16:08 <KotCzarny> aren't there any dongles?
Mar 25 05:17:30 <ryoohki_> how do i use the n800 to make video recordings?
Mar 25 05:17:46 <KotCzarny> ryoohki_: download some software probably
Mar 25 05:18:05 <ryoohki_> KotCzarny: thanks, i nkow that though
Mar 25 05:18:09 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 05:18:51 <KotCzarny> you can even use mencoder
Mar 25 05:19:16 <KotCzarny> or any app that does v4l2
Mar 25 05:28:41 <KotCzarny> http://tabletblog.com/2007/08/another-look-at-n800.html#c288057455183745307
Mar 25 05:28:41 <KotCzarny> lol
Mar 25 05:30:01 <ds3> probally are
Mar 25 05:30:07 <ds3> but why if the internal hw works
Mar 25 05:30:30 <KotCzarny> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2249
Mar 25 05:30:36 <KotCzarny> goes down to 76mhz
Mar 25 05:30:42 <ds3> and how high?
Mar 25 05:30:48 <KotCzarny> TEA5761UK
Mar 25 05:30:55 <KotCzarny> know anything about this chip?
Mar 25 05:30:56 <ds3> not much good stuff below FM
Mar 25 05:31:03 <ds3> TEA? Philips I take it?
Mar 25 05:31:24 <ds3> yep. NXP
Mar 25 05:35:26 <ds3> bah no hope that chip appears to have integrated filters at 108
Mar 25 05:36:32 <KotCzarny> a version of the fmradio code has:
Mar 25 05:36:32 <KotCzarny> #define FM_FREQ_MAX 108.0
Mar 25 05:36:32 <KotCzarny> #define FM_FREQ_MIN 87.5
Mar 25 05:36:34 <KotCzarny> hum
Mar 25 05:36:37 <KotCzarny> :>
Mar 25 05:36:44 <KotCzarny> but that's kernel wise
Mar 25 05:37:00 <KotCzarny> one should compile own kernel and radio app too
Mar 25 05:37:05 <KotCzarny> to see if it actually works
Mar 25 05:37:33 <ds3> i checked the NXP datasheet
Mar 25 05:37:36 <KotCzarny> there's also TEA5761_TNCTRL_HLSI which to me seems to be similarly interesting,
Mar 25 05:37:36 <KotCzarny> but again, it too appears immutable.
Mar 25 05:37:44 <ds3> it isn't a software thing :(
Mar 25 05:37:50 <KotCzarny> life
Mar 25 05:37:53 <ds3> unlike the really really cheap chips
Mar 25 05:38:34 <koyote> huh
Mar 25 05:39:40 <koyote> 76mhz?
Mar 25 05:39:44 <koyote> let me check band plan
Mar 25 05:39:45 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 05:40:01 <KotCzarny> 140 and up
Mar 25 05:42:55 <koyote> well, ham is, yes
Mar 25 05:44:21 <koyote> mil stuff uses 30-76 for short range comms
Mar 25 05:47:21 <koyote> 76-88 i think is television
Mar 25 05:47:32 <koyote> well, 54-88
Mar 25 05:48:00 <koyote> air traffic control in 108-136
Mar 25 05:48:30 <koyote> there's also military fm from 30-87 depending
Mar 25 05:48:34 <koyote> so there.
Mar 25 05:49:21 <KotCzarny> btw. does n810 have fm radio ?
Mar 25 05:50:08 <kuriiri> nope
Mar 25 05:50:12 <KotCzarny> hah.
Mar 25 05:50:48 * koyote loads metallica on phone for housemate's daughter
Mar 25 05:51:12 <KotCzarny> nice girl, nice.. now put that knife away
Mar 25 05:51:13 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 05:53:26 <koyote> she
Mar 25 05:53:31 <koyote> she's only 15.
Mar 25 05:53:41 <KotCzarny> already 15.
Mar 25 05:53:44 <koyote> though i did make her a belt knife for winter solstice
Mar 25 05:53:46 * KotCzarny grins
Mar 25 05:54:31 <koyote> her mother keeps slacking on the sheath
Mar 25 05:55:18 <koyote> how do i install libXaw? it's not in any feeds i can find
Mar 25 05:55:40 <KotCzarny> i have just copied it from scratchbox
Mar 25 05:55:42 <KotCzarny> i beliece
Mar 25 05:55:44 <KotCzarny> believe
Mar 25 05:55:50 <koyote> ?
Mar 25 05:56:02 <KotCzarny> otoh i could have compiled it myself
Mar 25 05:56:04 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 05:56:19 <koyote> really could use a deb for that :)
Mar 25 05:56:30 <KotCzarny> i can give you a binary :)
Mar 25 05:57:05 <KotCzarny> ah, sorry, it was libXpm
Mar 25 05:57:05 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 05:57:40 <KotCzarny> libXaw should be installed
Mar 25 05:58:48 <KotCzarny> if not: apt-get install libxaw7
Mar 25 05:58:50 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 06:00:23 <koyote> ah, good then
Mar 25 06:00:35 <koyote> i was trying apt-get install libXaw, duh
Mar 25 06:00:40 <Italodance> inally done
Mar 25 06:00:44 <KotCzarny> apt-cache search xaw
Mar 25 06:00:51 <Italodance> i installed ukmp manually :D
Mar 25 06:00:54 <KotCzarny> should show you what's in the menu
Mar 25 06:01:06 * KotCzarny learned it few days ago
Mar 25 06:01:06 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 06:01:17 <KotCzarny> probably yesterday
Mar 25 06:01:18 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 25 06:02:26 <KotCzarny> Q: Is the Nokia N800 a PDA, a smart phone, a UMPC, or a media player? A: I don't care.
Mar 25 06:02:28 <KotCzarny> hehe
Mar 25 06:03:12 <koyote> it's a Real Computer
Mar 25 06:03:26 <KotCzarny> personal computer
Mar 25 06:03:27 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 06:03:37 <KotCzarny> real computer suck power in megawatts
Mar 25 06:03:38 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 25 06:03:44 <KotCzarny> *computers
Mar 25 06:06:30 <koyote> not anymore
Mar 25 06:07:11 <koyote> i mean, seriously. the frist cluster we built in VA when i worked for uunet was 12 javastations and drew only a couple amps.
Mar 25 06:08:14 <KotCzarny> 'only'
Mar 25 06:08:15 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 06:08:46 <koyote> well, yeah. but we never could get a stable enough solaris going on the palms
Mar 25 06:09:01 <koyote> no mmu. bad behavior
Mar 25 06:09:05 <KotCzarny> hehe
Mar 25 06:11:48 <koyote> "real hackers don't read docs"?
Mar 25 06:17:10 <koyote> okay, modified the docsucker, now let's see about the emacs install
Mar 25 06:26:47 <KotCzarny> hmm
Mar 25 06:29:33 <cLin> anyone use the poi on maemo mapper?
Mar 25 06:29:50 * KotCzarny used it once
Mar 25 06:30:25 <cLin> i cant seem to add or import pois
Mar 25 06:30:26 <cLin> =\
Mar 25 06:30:54 <KotCzarny> right tap on the map and click on 'download'
Mar 25 06:31:30 <cLin> cant download either
Mar 25 06:31:43 <cLin> keeps saying no pois found, cant add pois
Mar 25 06:32:25 <KotCzarny> try new york city area
Mar 25 06:32:59 <cLin> huh?
Mar 25 06:33:05 <cLin> los angeles area doesn't work?
Mar 25 06:33:17 <cLin> or even importing
Mar 25 06:33:27 <KotCzarny> i don't know, i just suggest a test
Mar 25 06:33:29 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 06:33:37 <cLin> i tried importing this gpx file i found online and it doesn't work. converted it to garmin gpx file and it doesn't find anypois
Mar 25 06:35:34 <cLin> hrm
Mar 25 06:38:47 <koyote> uh oh
Mar 25 06:38:50 <koyote> bad juju
Mar 25 06:39:03 <koyote> cannot find info directory node!
Mar 25 06:39:59 <KotCzarny> hmm
Mar 25 06:40:15 <KotCzarny> what was the firefox build for maemo?
Mar 25 06:40:29 <KotCzarny> that was faster than microb?
Mar 25 06:40:42 <koyote> of course, no one here uses emacs
Mar 25 06:50:50 <Lynoure> RMS's Emacs should be more like Eclipse was funny...
Mar 25 06:55:51 <tank-man> I am looking in /usr/share/doc and i see a readme left by
Mar 25 06:55:54 <tank-man> docpurge
Mar 25 06:56:07 <tank-man> can i get back all the docs removed?
Mar 25 06:56:16 <tank-man> with some apt command?
Mar 25 06:56:22 <KotCzarny> probably not
Mar 25 06:56:32 <KotCzarny> because all of them run docpurge while installing?
Mar 25 06:56:40 <KotCzarny> or more
Mar 25 06:56:52 <KotCzarny> they run that command before packaging a .deb?
Mar 25 06:56:53 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 06:57:38 <tank-man> some blog says it gets run by the package manager
Mar 25 06:57:46 <KotCzarny> maybe both
Mar 25 06:57:47 <koyote> yep
Mar 25 06:57:52 <koyote> i edited the file
Mar 25 06:58:13 <koyote> and anything that has the docco included is now fine.
Mar 25 06:58:27 <koyote> (well, after reinstalling)
Mar 25 07:19:50 <KotCzarny> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1IYuz6ROlk
Mar 25 07:19:58 <KotCzarny> neeeed..
Mar 25 07:22:13 <koyote> and....
Mar 25 07:23:17 <koyote> i want my phone to do that
Mar 25 07:27:26 <KotCzarny> http://www.hersenscheet.com/loi/ringtone3.mid
Mar 25 07:27:26 <KotCzarny> hah
Mar 25 07:29:21 <koyote> and here we go?
Mar 25 07:29:33 <KotCzarny> round and around
Mar 25 07:29:43 <KotCzarny> with a leek
Mar 25 07:30:19 <koyote`> yah
Mar 25 07:30:22 <koyote`> n800 erc
Mar 25 07:32:17 <koyote> nice
Mar 25 07:32:20 <koyote> i am happy
Mar 25 07:39:03 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Mar 25 07:39:30 <koyote`> oi
Mar 25 07:55:30 <koyote`> yeeee
Mar 25 07:55:35 <koyote`> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/MaemoEmacs
Mar 25 07:58:38 <script> omg ;)
Mar 25 07:59:06 <script> does it need external sotrage on mmc ;) ?
Mar 25 08:02:07 <koyote`> no, not technically.
Mar 25 08:02:32 <koyote`> i use external storage because i wanted emacs and binutils and bash and coreutils and wesnoth......
Mar 25 08:02:48 <koyote`> i suppose a compiler would be handy at this rate
Mar 25 08:18:46 <mrklaw> anyone know where I can get xchat for os2008?
Mar 25 08:19:06 <koyote> dunno if you can
Mar 25 08:19:12 <koyote> lots of people using pidgin
Mar 25 08:19:21 <koyote> i have erc (emacs)
Mar 25 08:19:44 <mrklaw> I've seen xchat for os2007 but now that I wan't it, I can't find it for os2008
Mar 25 08:20:19 <koyote> not something i use, i'm an emacs junkie
Mar 25 08:20:36 <mrklaw> ah, I just needed to search for chinook instead of maemo. http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/
Mar 25 08:21:17 <koyote> my wife will like that if i get her an 800
Mar 25 08:22:14 <koyote> okay, the homeless guy in the parking lot behind my house can stop coughing up a lung now
Mar 25 08:26:07 <GeneralAntilles> You should ask him if he minds dying a little more quietly.
Mar 25 08:26:31 <koyote> well, i'm debating calling the police. he sounds pretty bad.
Mar 25 08:27:02 <koyote> but i REALLY hate police involvement. i do NOT want to talk to them.
Mar 25 08:27:29 <KotCzarny> call the kkk knights then
Mar 25 08:27:49 <mrklaw_> I'm on my n800 with xchat now
Mar 25 08:28:29 <Jaffa> koyote: send them an email (or call 0118 999 811 95423 759.... 3)
Mar 25 08:31:11 <KotCzarny> or drink some drencrom and get ready for some ultraviolence
Mar 25 08:31:12 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 08:32:26 <KotCzarny>   |> Leva's Breaks - Beatnick vs Loituma ()
Mar 25 08:35:51 <aquatix> morning all
Mar 25 08:35:59 <Cptn-N800> Google documents is a slow POS
Mar 25 08:36:25 <aquatix> google reader also</random>
Mar 25 08:37:28 <Cptn-N800> How stable/useful is gnumeric these days?
Mar 25 08:37:38 <Cptn-N800> For spreadsheets
Mar 25 08:38:22 <KotCzarny> spread your sheets wide!
Mar 25 08:38:33 <aquatix> gnumeric is really nice imho
Mar 25 08:38:48 * aquatix prefers gnumeric over OOo Calc even
Mar 25 08:38:49 <jott> it has some usability issues but works fine
Mar 25 08:39:50 <jott> most prevailing one that it won't write to a cell when you type - atleast on the version i have
Mar 25 08:40:47 <mrklaw_> google reader is fast for me now
Mar 25 08:41:38 <Cptn-N800> Umm
Mar 25 08:41:52 <Cptn-N800> Any specific reason gnumeric ignores igo kb input?
Mar 25 08:42:09 <jott> ^^
Mar 25 08:42:19 <jott> you have to select the = [ ....  ] field on top
Mar 25 08:42:20 <jott> to write
Mar 25 08:42:28 <KotCzarny> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000II6YEA?ie=UTF8&tag=showitem06-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000II6YEA
Mar 25 08:42:31 <KotCzarny> doh. how much?
Mar 25 08:42:49 <mrklaw_> i use the iphone useragent to get the googl reader for mobiles
Mar 25 08:42:51 <Cptn-N800> Thx...lol thats rather annoying
Mar 25 08:42:59 <KotCzarny> otoh ir sensor could be nice for turning off tvs on the go
Mar 25 08:43:00 <KotCzarny> :>
Mar 25 08:44:39 <mrklaw_> ouch, over $300 for a remote?
Mar 25 08:44:59 <jott> hehe get a n810 instead and us that as a remote ;)
Mar 25 08:45:45 <KotCzarny> 500 on original price tag
Mar 25 08:50:23 <aquatix> mrklaw_: you can also go to google.com/reader/m ;)
Mar 25 08:51:59 <KotCzarny> nice ramble: http://ets.tlt.psu.edu/iphone/node/202
Mar 25 08:52:01 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 08:53:18 <jott> hm http://www.novii.tv/palm/blaster/ :)
Mar 25 08:53:49 <KotCzarny> hmm
Mar 25 08:53:50 <KotCzarny> nice
Mar 25 08:53:54 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 08:55:09 <KotCzarny> and thanks to xrandr sd port can be in the right place
Mar 25 08:55:10 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 25 08:55:17 <jott> ;)
Mar 25 08:55:43 <KotCzarny> now.. where's the price tag..
Mar 25 08:56:36 <Cptn-N800> Gnumeric is indeed nice...excel compatability needed
Mar 25 08:56:52 <KotCzarny> 18$ hum
Mar 25 08:56:54 <KotCzarny> :>
Mar 25 08:57:06 <jott> might be worth a try :)
Mar 25 08:57:07 <KotCzarny> 28 with s&h
Mar 25 08:57:34 <KotCzarny> i wonder if it's supported by kernel
Mar 25 08:57:54 <jott> depends as what it registeres is suppose
Mar 25 08:57:59 <KotCzarny> yeah
Mar 25 08:58:06 <KotCzarny> if it's serial port..
Mar 25 08:58:07 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 08:59:29 <jott> other than that you could use your computer or a openwrt box with a lirc deivce attached :)
Mar 25 09:00:02 <jott> that's like 1-2$ for the parts ;)
Mar 25 09:01:49 <KotCzarny> hum
Mar 25 09:01:56 <KotCzarny> i wonder
Mar 25 09:02:06 <KotCzarny> there's only 'mmc block device' in the kernel
Mar 25 09:02:33 <jott> but it's an sdio slot isn't it?!
Mar 25 09:02:46 <KotCzarny> but you still need a driver, right?
Mar 25 09:02:47 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 09:02:50 <jott> probably
Mar 25 09:03:01 <jott> well for the lirc thingy you won't need a driver ;)
Mar 25 09:03:30 <jott> maybe some nice gui ;)
Mar 25 09:03:47 <KotCzarny> yeah, there was a soundcardir :>
Mar 25 09:04:20 <KotCzarny> someone should start selling them nicely integrated
Mar 25 09:05:28 <jott> or mod the LED in the corner - replace it with an ir diode ;)
Mar 25 09:05:37 <KotCzarny> nah
Mar 25 09:06:04 <KotCzarny> no cover crushing
Mar 25 09:06:06 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 09:06:38 <jott> hey it's just some smd soldering :)
Mar 25 09:06:44 <KotCzarny> 'just'
Mar 25 09:06:45 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 09:06:53 <KotCzarny> i can't even do NORMAL soldering
Mar 25 09:06:53 <mrklaw_> have a good night
Mar 25 09:06:54 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 25 09:07:23 <KotCzarny> amazon sux.
Mar 25 09:07:29 <KotCzarny> order date: 11 mar
Mar 25 09:07:43 <KotCzarny> estimated arrival date: 30 mar
Mar 25 09:51:18 <Jaffa> Whoa: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1212 is amazing. There is both a) activity, b) ownership, c) a comment saying at what revision it's been fixed.
Mar 25 09:51:35 <KotCzarny> wow
Mar 25 09:51:48 <KotCzarny> someone actually reads those bugs?
Mar 25 09:51:59 <KotCzarny> bah, even resolves?
Mar 25 09:52:00 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 09:52:18 <Jaffa> Must've been a fluke. Won't happen again ;-)
Mar 25 09:54:17 <KotCzarny> i wonder what will happen after filling a bug 'no mbx libs in sdk/device, can't use pwoervr'
Mar 25 09:54:18 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 25 09:54:48 <kulve> go ahead
Mar 25 09:54:55 <KotCzarny> i'm not registered :/
Mar 25 09:56:11 <KotCzarny> but it would be interesting what's the nokia's stance in this case
Mar 25 09:58:30 <kulve> if they would answer "no" in a sensible way then the url would be easy to paste to everyone asking about it..
Mar 25 10:00:02 <KotCzarny> i'm interested: 1/ what is the reason it's not enabled, 2/ is it possible to enable and actually use it, 3/ will there be sdk/runtime support, 4/ is it planned
Mar 25 10:02:24 <KotCzarny> if anyone could post it..
Mar 25 10:02:30 <KotCzarny> i'm off to bed anyway :)
Mar 25 10:02:33 <KotCzarny> night people
Mar 25 10:02:36 <Jaffa> Guessing at the answers: 1) a combination of cost and hardware architecture making it tricky to use well; 2) not in any supported way; 3) Nokia do not comment on future device capabilities; 4) Nokia do not comment on the capabilities of any future devices.
Mar 25 10:02:57 <KotCzarny> future?
Mar 25 10:03:27 <Jaffa> s/devices/devices or ITOS releases/
Mar 25 10:03:28 <infobot> Jaffa meant: Guessing at the answers: 1) a combination of cost and hardware architecture making it tricky to use well; 2) not in any supported way; 3) Nokia do not comment on future device capabilities; 4) Nokia do not comment on the capabilities of any future devices...
Mar 25 10:03:45 <KotCzarny> bot failed
Mar 25 10:03:47 <KotCzarny> hehe
Mar 25 10:11:10 <pupnik> i love how loud the n810 is... it's surreal
Mar 25 10:11:23 <pupnik> but i think this is standard tech now
Mar 25 10:30:55 <_massi_> hello!
Mar 25 10:34:34 <aquatix> pupnik: too bad it is standard, as i really dislike those annoying people playing loud music in the train or metro from their cellphones
Mar 25 10:34:47 * aquatix is getting old and cranky ;)
Mar 25 10:43:55 <Italodance> :D
Mar 25 10:45:53 <AStorm> ok, who will give me vim-7 package for maemo?
Mar 25 10:46:02 <AStorm> not conflicting with busybox
Mar 25 10:46:11 <pupnik> i prefer the 300kb BSD vi
Mar 25 10:46:18 <pupnik> to the 7 MB vim
Mar 25 10:47:16 <AStorm> nvi is suck
Mar 25 10:47:35 <AStorm> no support for buffers = fail
Mar 25 10:47:44 <pupnik> nvi?
Mar 25 10:48:04 <AStorm> nvi = BSD vi
Mar 25 10:48:24 <AStorm> so, where can I grab the package from?
Mar 25 10:48:27 <pupnik> ah, i never use multiple buffers
Mar 25 10:49:27 <andrewtaylor_> Hi, is this a good channel to talk about the N810 device, or, can someone suggest a more appropriate one?
Mar 25 10:49:41 <AStorm> the best one
Mar 25 10:49:45 <AStorm> :)
Mar 25 10:50:10 <dpb___> AStorm: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/vim/
Mar 25 10:50:22 <AStorm> hmm, not in repo? weird...
Mar 25 10:51:50 <kulve> andrewtaylor_: yeah, this is the channel
Mar 25 10:52:27 <andrewtaylor_> I'm trying to work out which phone I should upgrade to so I can use it as a modem with an 810. Vodafone UK can't help me, they say I should get a datacard.
Mar 25 10:52:48 <AStorm> they're so wrong
Mar 25 10:52:53 <andrewtaylor_> yup
Mar 25 10:53:00 <AStorm> you need a new HSDPA phone
Mar 25 10:53:03 <AStorm> any will do
Mar 25 10:53:26 <AStorm> now that both bt DUN and PAN are supported
Mar 25 10:53:30 <kulve> andrewtaylor_: basically any phone with bluetooth works. If you want more speed, then the model matters..
Mar 25 10:53:48 <glass> any phone with bluetooth dun
Mar 25 10:53:55 <glass> not any phone with bluetooth has it
Mar 25 10:54:13 <andrewtaylor_> They say that it won't be able to access the internet, because the tariffs that are attached to phones don't support it. I thought I could just get the £25 a month 3GB package added to my existing phone but they say it doesn't work like that.
Mar 25 10:54:27 <pupnik> andrewtaylor_: probably TMI but here's the forums on "pairing + phone" http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1526286
Mar 25 10:54:43 <AStorm> glass, now there's a pan driver too
Mar 25 10:54:51 <AStorm> so that doeesn't matter
Mar 25 10:55:11 <glass> AStorm: of course it matters
Mar 25 10:55:24 <AStorm> well, nope
Mar 25 10:55:28 <glass> AStorm: you don't get to net with iphone through it's pt, pan or not
Mar 25 10:55:39 <glass> bt
Mar 25 10:55:48 <AStorm> that's because iphone is locked
Mar 25 10:56:00 <glass> not locked, feature lacking...
Mar 25 10:56:17 <AStorm> feature? doesn't have pan or dun? suck!
Mar 25 10:56:21 <glass> (well doh it's locked, but the bt support is not about it per se)
Mar 25 10:56:34 <glass> intentionally lacking for some weird reason
Mar 25 10:56:45 <glass> same applies to lot of other phones
Mar 25 10:56:53 <AStorm> so that apple can sell some attachment
Mar 25 10:56:55 <glass> and operators wanting to limit data use to the handset
Mar 25 10:57:11 <AStorm> well, Siemens S700 should be nice
Mar 25 10:57:13 <glass> so buying just any phone without checking it can do the stuff is stupid
Mar 25 10:57:27 <AStorm> symbian too
Mar 25 10:57:48 <AStorm> all Nokias are fine too
Mar 25 11:00:08 <AStorm> Symbian phones will work out of box, at least here
Mar 25 11:00:22 <AStorm> our ISPs don't limit data that way
Mar 25 11:00:29 <AStorm> just a transfer limit
Mar 25 11:00:32 <AStorm> :P
Mar 25 11:01:04 <_massi_> I'd need help on this: since when I installed OS2008 on my n800 I have problems with my bluetooth GPS unit, which worked *perfectly* with the previous OS... the problem *seems* that the bluetooth link is unreliable
Mar 25 11:02:36 <kulve> _massi_: sounds a bit odd. I've tested couple of gps devices without that kind of problems..
Mar 25 11:02:45 <_massi_> both maemo-mapper and the map application suffer from it... maemo-mapper says it loses the gps link, while the map application just says it cannot get the fix (while the gps led on the unit says the fix is ok)
Mar 25 11:03:08 <_massi_> kulve: yes, I found nothing googling about this :-(
Mar 25 11:03:14 <andrewtaylor_> what about the speed of the bluetooth, can it support a 3g connection?
Mar 25 11:03:35 <AStorm> andrewtaylor_: easily
Mar 25 11:03:41 <GeneralAntilles> Limited to about 50KB/sec with DUN
Mar 25 11:03:56 <AStorm> that, yup
Mar 25 11:04:04 <GeneralAntilles> Be around 120KB/sec with PAN
Mar 25 11:04:06 <andrewtaylor_> so I should look for HSDPA phones with PAN profiles?
Mar 25 11:04:07 <AStorm> but should be faster
Mar 25 11:04:09 <_massi_> kulve: If I wanted to investigate, where should I look at?
Mar 25 11:04:16 <AStorm> mhm
Mar 25 11:04:22 <kulve> _massi_: sorry, I don't really have clues either..
Mar 25 11:04:27 <AStorm> GeneralAntilles: why the limit?
Mar 25 11:04:35 <kulve> _massi_: test with other BT device?
Mar 25 11:04:37 <AStorm> n can't keep upyü
Mar 25 11:04:39 <GeneralAntilles> DUN has a shitton of overhead.
Mar 25 11:04:40 <AStorm> up?
Mar 25 11:04:54 <_massi_> kulve: I don't own any :-(
Mar 25 11:04:55 <GeneralAntilles> _massi_, OS2008 here, no problems at all with BT devices.
Mar 25 11:05:01 <AStorm> BT should have some mbit
Mar 25 11:05:04 <GeneralAntilles> Did you restore a backup?
Mar 25 11:05:10 <kulve> http://www.mobileinfo.com/Bluetooth/FAQ.htm#t5
Mar 25 11:05:15 <GeneralAntilles> AStorm, DUN is the bottleneck, not BT.
Mar 25 11:05:19 <kulve> "A: Bluetooth transfers data at a rate of 721 Kbps"
Mar 25 11:05:25 <kulve> dunno if that's true..
Mar 25 11:05:26 <AStorm> so, cpu too weak?
Mar 25 11:05:47 <AStorm> kulve: that's bt 1.0
Mar 25 11:05:58 <_massi_> GeneralAntilles: no, I did a clean install and reconfigured manually
Mar 25 11:06:00 <kulve> AStorm: ok
Mar 25 11:06:08 <GeneralAntilles> The spec has a ton overhead which sucks up BT bandwidth.
Mar 25 11:06:15 <GeneralAntilles> A variety of things.
Mar 25 11:06:18 <GeneralAntilles> Not CPU bound, though.
Mar 25 11:06:28 <GeneralAntilles> I'm not entirely certain what all is involved.
Mar 25 11:06:37 <GeneralAntilles> But the profile is the limitation, anyway.
Mar 25 11:07:07 <GeneralAntilles> _massi_, dunno, I haven't observed any BT issues with two (well, four, if you count two 770s) OS2008 devices.
Mar 25 11:08:17 <_massi_> GeneralAntilles: but how can I see what's really going on there? would strace work on the tablet? or is there some easier way of looking at it?
Mar 25 11:09:18 <AStorm> strace and ltrace are available
Mar 25 11:09:33 <AStorm> but tracing bt isn't done with these
Mar 25 11:10:39 <AStorm> where do I stick the def file for ukeyboard?
Mar 25 11:11:55 <_massi_> AStorm: so, how do I trace what happens on the bt link?
Mar 25 11:12:13 <AStorm> hmm
Mar 25 11:12:29 <AStorm> not sure
Mar 25 11:12:43 <andrewtaylor_> hmm, it seems the data plan is more confusing than the phone choice. There are so many HSDPA phones.
Mar 25 11:12:50 <AStorm> :P
Mar 25 11:13:04 <AStorm> yes, the data plans are funny
Mar 25 11:13:17 <andrewtaylor_> i think the providers are so worried about voip, they make data hard
Mar 25 11:13:39 <AStorm> here you pay a premium
Mar 25 11:13:58 <AStorm> and data is limited
Mar 25 11:14:33 <andrewtaylor_> where's here?
Mar 25 11:14:36 <AStorm> it's cheaper just to use the plan
Mar 25 11:14:42 <AStorm> Poland .0
Mar 25 11:14:46 <AStorm> :P
Mar 25 11:14:47 <andrewtaylor_> oh ok
Mar 25 11:15:16 <AStorm> free minutes and all
Mar 25 11:15:53 <andrewtaylor_> Nokia E51 looks good and is available with my provider but doesn't seem to support PAN.
Mar 25 11:16:20 <AStorm> it does if ou install symbian driver for it?
Mar 25 11:16:52 <GeneralAntilles> DUN isn't the end of the world.
Mar 25 11:17:04 <GeneralAntilles> So if it's not convenient to get PAN, I wouldn't put TOO much energy into it.
Mar 25 11:20:16 <andrewtaylor_> If i'm going to take a new 2 year contract, I think I'd like to make sure i'm not limited in 6 months time.
Mar 25 11:20:34 <AStorm> :P
Mar 25 11:22:02 <GeneralAntilles> The limits on DUN or PAN wont change in 6 months. :\
Mar 25 11:22:21 <GeneralAntilles> 3g speeds are in the 7Mbps range for newer phones.
Mar 25 11:23:10 <andrewtaylor_> yes, but if I get a 7Mbps phone, I don't want to be restrict to 50Kb downloads because of DUN
Mar 25 11:23:24 <GeneralAntilles> PAN will only get you about 100-120KB/sec
Mar 25 11:23:39 <GeneralAntilles> So, like I said, it's not an incredibly important thing to get if it's inconvenient.
Mar 25 11:23:42 <andrewtaylor_> that's at least doble DUN though
Mar 25 11:25:26 <Lynoure> anyone tried a 3g modem directly with N8x0?
Mar 25 11:26:26 <Lynoure> I know the Huawei ones work decently in linux in general...
Mar 25 11:27:27 <GeneralAntilles> I'm fairly certain it was mentioned on ITT
Mar 25 11:27:44 <GeneralAntilles> Cradlepoint 3g/wifi routers seem to be a better route, though.
Mar 25 11:28:40 <GeneralAntilles> Be interesting if you could use them without a $60/mo ISP data plan.
Mar 25 11:28:55 <Lynoure> GeneralAntilles: here, yes...
Mar 25 11:29:57 <GeneralAntilles> Although I might consider switching from cable if the latency weren't so bad.
Mar 25 11:30:02 <Lynoure> GeneralAntilles: here they come with a 10> / month  euro data plans (limited speed, 'unlimited' amount)
Mar 25 11:30:15 <Lynoure> s/>/€>/
Mar 25 11:30:15 <infobot> Lynoure meant: GeneralAntilles: here they come with a 10€> / month  euro data plans (limited speed, 'unlimited' amount)
Mar 25 11:30:17 <GeneralAntilles> Speed limited to?
Mar 25 11:30:42 <Lynoure> GeneralAntilles: Depends on the monthly fee... I can check...
Mar 25 11:31:04 <GeneralAntilles> I get "unlimited" speed and data for $20
Mar 25 11:31:14 <GeneralAntilles> But I'm technically violating the ToS by tethering.
Mar 25 11:31:15 <Lynoure> 384 kbit/s for the 10 euro one, up to 2 Mbit/s for the 30 euro one.
Mar 25 11:31:48 <Lynoure> tethering?
Mar 25 11:32:04 <GeneralAntilles> Bluetooth tethering.
Mar 25 11:32:54 <Lynoure> That is, by using it for your N8x0 through bluetooth?
Mar 25 11:33:09 <Lynoure> That a crumpy limitation of them.
Mar 25 11:33:35 <GeneralAntilles> Eh, US carriers aren't keen on data usage
Mar 25 11:33:37 <Lynoure> What else is bluetooth for, really =)
Mar 25 11:33:40 <GeneralAntilles> We get much better voice plans, though. ;)
Mar 25 11:33:59 <GeneralAntilles> GPS, inter-device, keyboards, remote controls.
Mar 25 11:34:05 <GeneralAntilles> Wiimotes. ;)
Mar 25 11:35:47 <Lynoure> ouch. Good thing the carriers here don't have such limitations, at least never seen one yet.
Mar 25 11:36:26 <GeneralAntilles> Eh, it works out
Mar 25 11:36:31 <GeneralAntilles> Most US customers are heavy voice users.
Mar 25 11:36:45 <GeneralAntilles> Those with data are primarily business customers.
Mar 25 11:38:10 <glass> us is just late
Mar 25 11:39:38 <GeneralAntilles>  /huge
Mar 25 11:44:02 <kharras> why
Mar 25 11:50:30 <Italodance> huh?
Mar 25 11:52:07 <Italodance> chinook = 4.1 ?
Mar 25 11:53:16 <GeneralAntilles> Diablo = 4.1, evidently. :\
Mar 25 11:53:28 <Italodance> tnx
Mar 25 11:53:36 <kulve> chinook = 4.0.1
Mar 25 11:53:37 <Italodance> chinook = .... ?
Mar 25 11:53:41 <Italodance> :D
Mar 25 11:53:48 <AStorm> diablo isn't out yet
Mar 25 11:53:49 <GeneralAntilles> Chinook = 4.0
Mar 25 11:54:06 <pupnik> For your tablet: free lectures (mp3) on austrian economics and liberty.  http://mises.org/media.aspx
Mar 25 11:54:18 <Italodance> guys i installed ukmp manually :D
Mar 25 11:54:24 <GeneralAntilles> Mmm, thanks pupnik!
Mar 25 11:54:56 <Italodance> infact download all pythons and libs then move to my tablet with usb cable and installed all package one by one...
Mar 25 11:55:36 <Italodance> someone has libungif4g ?
Mar 25 11:56:50 <pupnik> libungif4g is available from repository.maemo.org
Mar 25 11:57:10 <pupnik> Italodance: use http://gronmayer.com/it to search for packages
Mar 25 11:57:28 <Italodance> pupnik yes but i couldn't find it there...
Mar 25 11:57:45 <Italodance> on repository.maemo.org
Mar 25 12:00:39 <pupnik> Italodance: get root access in xterm
Mar 25 12:00:41 <pupnik> then type
Mar 25 12:00:43 <pupnik> apt-get update
Mar 25 12:00:49 <pupnik> apt-get install libungif4g
Mar 25 12:00:57 <kharras> why
Mar 25 12:04:42 <kharras> I asked why
Mar 25 12:07:26 <AStorm> :P
Mar 25 12:12:51 <kharras> why
Mar 25 12:13:21 <lopz> morning
Mar 25 12:13:30 <GNUton> Hi
Mar 25 12:13:35 <kharras> ¨why
Mar 25 12:16:55 <Lynoure> kharras: why what?
Mar 25 12:17:58 <kharras> what do you mean
Mar 25 12:23:20 <GeneralAntilles> Don't feed the troll, Lynoure.
Mar 25 12:29:46 <kharras> I am not a troll, you star wars relict
Mar 25 12:31:25 <jani> Anyone knows if its possible to attach "focus-(in/out)-event" signal to HildonFindToolbar ?
Mar 25 12:32:23 <jani> doesnt seem to work currently atleast.
Mar 25 12:33:56 <webustany> hi there
Mar 25 12:34:21 <webustany> is there a way to use mplayer as an audio backend for canola2 beta ?
Mar 25 12:34:57 <GeneralAntilles> It uses mplayer.
Mar 25 12:36:01 <webustany> hmmm... it does not see my m4a files
Mar 25 12:36:21 <GeneralAntilles> Did you add the directories they're in into the search index?
Mar 25 12:36:42 <webustany> yes
Mar 25 12:36:53 <webustany> it does only see mp3 files
Mar 25 12:37:55 * GeneralAntilles shrugs.
Mar 25 12:38:02 <GeneralAntilles> I'm sure it's been covered in one of the threads on ITT.
Mar 25 12:38:12 <GeneralAntilles> They wouldn't happen to be protected, would they?
Mar 25 12:38:14 <jott> well tagging will not be handled by mplayer i suppose :p
Mar 25 12:38:40 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, I think that canola doesn't necessarily display everything mplayer can play
Mar 25 12:38:42 <webustany> no, they're not
Mar 25 12:38:47 <GeneralAntilles> mplayer doesn't have anything to do with media scanning.
Mar 25 12:38:52 <webustany> about tagging... I don't know
Mar 25 12:39:05 <jott> well thats the problem..
Mar 25 12:40:52 <webustany> i'm gonna look on ITT
Mar 25 12:41:25 <GeneralAntilles> If you don't find anything, post in the latest beta thread
Mar 25 12:41:37 <GeneralAntilles> I'm sure handful will be there to triage for you in minutes.
Mar 25 12:41:42 <GeneralAntilles> (that man is a machine)
Mar 25 12:41:43 <jott> maybe same applies for ogg
Mar 25 12:41:48 <webustany> ok, thanks for the tip
Mar 25 12:41:58 <webustany> hmm, i didn't tested ogg
Mar 25 12:43:08 <GeneralAntilles> You don't get the kind of support the INdT guys give from most commercial software companies. <_<
Mar 25 12:43:53 <jott> on the other hand you can't run and fix it by yourself without the source ;)
Mar 25 12:44:14 <GeneralAntilles> Meh, 99% of people don't have the skills to do that anyway.
Mar 25 12:44:55 <GeneralAntilles> They contribute way more than their fair share to open source projects in the process of making Canola awesome, anyway.
Mar 25 12:45:08 <jott> sure about the 99% in the ITOS world? :)
Mar 25 12:47:28 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe 95%
Mar 25 12:47:37 <GeneralAntilles> It's still not a high percentage.
Mar 25 12:48:00 <GeneralAntilles> Besides, how many problems actually get fixed that way?
Mar 25 12:48:13 <GeneralAntilles> Look at all of Nokia's open source stuff that still sucks.
Mar 25 12:48:23 <GeneralAntilles> Nobody has gone in and fixed those.
Mar 25 12:49:20 <jott> sure things get fixed if they annoy people
Mar 25 12:49:48 <GeneralAntilles> Application Manager is the epitome of annoying.
Mar 25 12:49:51 <GeneralAntilles> Nobody has fixed it.
Mar 25 12:49:53 <GeneralAntilles> Weak argument.
Mar 25 12:50:03 <GeneralAntilles> I get your point, but still.
Mar 25 12:50:06 <jott> application maanger is not worth the effort
Mar 25 12:50:14 <johnx> GUI package management is a bad example...
Mar 25 12:50:21 <jott> most advanced poeple dont use it anyway
Mar 25 12:50:22 <GeneralAntilles> OK, hildon-desktop.
Mar 25 12:50:31 <GeneralAntilles> Plenty of annoyances there.
Mar 25 12:50:34 <GeneralAntilles> Nobody has fixed it.
Mar 25 12:50:50 <jott> hmm which?
Mar 25 12:51:14 <jott> its part of gnome now so other people work on it
Mar 25 12:52:09 <jott> you probably would get some fixes if you used a recent upstream version i guess..
Mar 25 12:52:33 <jott> but probably this would break closed nokia stuff..
Mar 25 12:53:11 <johnx> gah...I need to have a good long hack at resolution dependent stuff for hildon desktop themes :/
Mar 25 12:54:11 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: I don't think there's much hacking on Nokia's open source stuff cos none of its development happens in an open way. Who'll hack on Application Manager when the sacred "UI specification" is closed?
Mar 25 12:54:12 <jott> heh how far is this gone upstream wise? as many planned devices won't be 800x480...
Mar 25 12:54:45 * Jaffa thinks Hildon itself is now very independent, but the theming isn't
Mar 25 12:55:50 <johnx> I think the things that will use other resolutions will use that weird ubuntu mobile flash desktop instead of "hildon desktop"
Mar 25 12:56:17 <johnx> of course they'll still use apps based on hildon libs (which seem nicely resolution independent)
Mar 25 12:56:36 <johnx> in fact I'm quite surprised by how un-broken things are with rotation enabled
Mar 25 12:57:06 <GeneralAntilles> That damn UI spec.
Mar 25 12:57:16 <GeneralAntilles> Where do we burn the people who came up with that thing?
Mar 25 12:57:22 <GeneralAntilles> Heck, where do we file bugs against it? :\
Mar 25 12:57:45 <GeneralAntilles> It's like they hired a team of people to make it with the express intention of making things harder on the user.
Mar 25 12:59:32 <jott> hehe maybe they asked their S60 UI team *g*
Mar 25 12:59:41 <johnx> Anyways, my point about GUI package managers is that more often than not that is one of the most neglected areas of a linux desktop env
Mar 25 12:59:55 <Italodance> phonelink don't work on my tablet ? why :(  it's the latest version
Mar 25 13:00:19 <GeneralAntilles> jott, that doesn't seem all that unlikely.
Mar 25 13:01:44 <SDuensin> Morning.
Mar 25 13:02:20 <GeneralAntilles> Every single retarded thing we run into seems to stem from that spec. <_<
Mar 25 13:02:40 <GeneralAntilles> Why can't you organize the MicroB bookmarks how you want them? UI spec
Mar 25 13:02:49 <GeneralAntilles> Why is the bundled xterm retarded? UI spec
Mar 25 13:04:14 <johnx> and therein lies on of the reasons for lack of fixes: if userA hacks xterm to work the way they want do they have *any* expectation that upstream will accept that patch?
Mar 25 13:04:28 <johnx> (or at least one of the theoretical reasons)
Mar 25 13:06:33 <GeneralAntilles> We need a team of people to break into Nokia and beat them all silly with frozen trouts.
Mar 25 13:07:02 <johnx> I'm in. I'll start a pool for bus fare to get there. :D
Mar 25 13:07:31 <jkyro> I might be able to spare a few for the trouts
Mar 25 13:08:14 <Italodance> hi johnx :D
Mar 25 13:08:33 <GeneralAntilles> "Stupid. *thwack* Shit. *thwack* Should. *thwack* Not. *thwack* Be. *thwack* Stupid. *thwack* For. *thwack* The. *thwack* Sake. *thwack* Of. *thwack* Stupidity."
Mar 25 13:12:43 <Italodance> is there any tool for unrar?
Mar 25 13:12:48 <WormFood> good evening gents (and I use that term loosely)
Mar 25 13:12:57 <WormFood> Italodance, did you try "unrar"?
Mar 25 13:13:54 <Italodance> WormFood no where is it?
Mar 25 13:14:10 <Italodance> i couldn't find it at http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/
Mar 25 13:14:20 <WormFood> I don't know if there is one for the n800, but I know there is an unrar utility for Linux
Mar 25 13:15:22 <Italodance> ummm i want it for comix
Mar 25 13:15:57 <wom-> http://packages.debian.org/unrar there seems to be one package for armel
Mar 25 13:17:17 <Italodance> umm yes but can work for maemo?
Mar 25 13:17:48 <Italodance> i found it repository.maemo.org/contrib/pool/bora/free/u/unrar-nonfree
Mar 25 13:19:24 <WormFood> sooo...did anyone fix that dhcp problem while I was gone? *evil grin*
Mar 25 13:19:35 <Italodance> dhcp?
Mar 25 13:19:55 <WormFood> yes
Mar 25 13:20:10 <WormFood> dhcp does not get an IP from some routers on the n800
Mar 25 13:20:30 <Italodance> ohh i don't know sorry
Mar 25 13:21:56 <Italodance> i couldn't install canola 2 ,libetk don't want to installl :"''''''''(
Mar 25 13:25:29 <Khertan> Hi !
Mar 25 13:25:43 <WormFood> greetings!
Mar 25 13:27:43 <Italodance> hi Khertan
Mar 25 13:31:39 <pupnik> It is difficult to install things to N800 when offline Italodance  :(
Mar 25 13:31:53 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: count me in on stupid thwacking
Mar 25 13:32:59 <GeneralAntilles> I don't mind stupid things being stupid due to lack of time/resources/people, or technical difficulties, or something
Mar 25 13:33:14 <GeneralAntilles> but stupid things being stupid for the sake of stupidity is amount the most frustrating thing I can imagine.
Mar 25 13:33:19 <Jaffa> But stupid-by-design... <shudder/>
Mar 25 13:34:07 <pupnik> Is it closed-source?
Mar 25 13:34:15 <Jaffa> The UI spec is
Mar 25 13:34:35 <pupnik> No, i mean can you modify the browser to your liking and recompile?
Mar 25 13:34:46 <GeneralAntilles> tablet-browser is closed.
Mar 25 13:35:04 <pupnik> It is not based on GPL?
Mar 25 13:35:18 <pupnik> microb?
Mar 25 13:35:28 <jott> well either LGPL or MPL
Mar 25 13:35:33 <Italodance> pupnik offline yes i know but i don't have ither way :"'(
Mar 25 13:35:53 <pusling> is it possible somehow to get usb networking working and still have your the mmc cards mounted ?
Mar 25 13:36:05 <pupnik> Italodance: can you connect your N800 to the internet?
Mar 25 13:36:31 <GeneralAntilles> MicroB is open
Mar 25 13:36:35 <Italodance> pupnik no! not yet...i just use it on some wlan places
Mar 25 13:36:35 <jott> pupnik: define "mounted" you can use sshfs, nfs, * ...
Mar 25 13:36:36 <GeneralAntilles> tablet-browser is not.
Mar 25 13:36:41 <jott> erm pusling
Mar 25 13:37:11 <jott> pu[tab][tab] ;)
Mar 25 13:38:04 <Italodance> pupnik i need to unistall gnokii_0.6.24-os2008_armel.deb  ????
Mar 25 13:38:05 <pusling> jott: the n800 guides I have seen have all of them described the need for umounting the mmc cards before you can properly modprobe g_ether
Mar 25 13:38:27 <Italodance> i installed phonelink_1.2.0-os2008_armel.deb and gnokii-gconf_0[1].6.1-os2008_armel.deb
Mar 25 13:38:57 <pupnik> I don't know what gnokkii is Italodance, but i suggest you figure out a way to connect N800 to internet.  Perhaps you can use USB networking to connect through your computer
Mar 25 13:39:15 <pupnik> afk
Mar 25 13:39:29 <jott> pusling: yes, you have to unmount them and you can remount them via another protocol like sshfs
Mar 25 13:39:30 <Jaffa> Does phonelink have a GUI now? It never used to, but seeing as it's getting so much press recently, I wondered if that situation's changed
Mar 25 13:39:31 <Italodance> pupnik USB networking.....of hard work....
Mar 25 13:40:15 <pusling> jott: how mount them via another protocol ?  If I umount them in the n800, it just sits there unused ?
Mar 25 13:41:01 <jott> pusling: if you have usb networking you should have an ip connection hence you can use this for transfer of files
Mar 25 13:41:40 <jott> i suppose there is a wiki entry how to do this right
Mar 25 13:42:29 <jott> http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/setting_up_usb_networking.html
Mar 25 13:43:28 <Italodance> jott tnx i see
Mar 25 13:47:08 <GeneralAntilles> There's a statusbar applet that'll handle it all for you.
Mar 25 13:55:29 <pusling> jott: I still need to umount mmc2 before I can modprobe g_ether
Mar 25 14:00:21 <strayhikari> Jaffa: tried your media converter last night, worked like a charm
Mar 25 14:01:11 <strayhikari> I converted to 400x240, I read on the forums that people were getting good performance with it, which resolution do you use?
Mar 25 14:02:20 <Italodance> strayhikari 400x240 is perfect
Mar 25 14:02:30 <GeneralAntilles> Up to 5xx horizontal can give you good results with low-motion stuff.
Mar 25 14:03:05 <kulve> I use 640:240 with mencoder and I'm happy with the result
Mar 25 14:03:19 <GeneralAntilles> Guaranteed to give you framedrop.
Mar 25 14:03:55 <kulve> maybe on some very high-motions scenes, but mostly looks just good (with mplayer)
Mar 25 14:04:17 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, anything 6xx will give you a lot of framedrop even with medium motion stuff.
Mar 25 14:04:22 <GeneralAntilles> Not recommended.
Mar 25 14:04:26 <kulve> I disagree
Mar 25 14:04:27 <Italodance> kulve lol ur tablet can read 640:240?
Mar 25 14:05:40 <kulve> that's what I've been using
Mar 25 14:06:20 <GeneralAntilles> Some people handle framedrop better than others.
Mar 25 14:06:35 <GeneralAntilles> But trust me, framedrop you will have with horizontal resolutions over 600px
Mar 25 14:10:19 <Italodance> GeneralAntilles i always use 1700 bitrate   =  bluray quality :D
Mar 25 14:10:24 <kulve> GeneralAntilles: are you now talking about some specific codec? and specific application? and specific audio codec? and specific height? and specific bitrate? Or is the 600px the only limit?
Mar 25 14:10:57 <GeneralAntilles> Assuming decent MPEG4
Mar 25 14:11:23 <GeneralAntilles> Italodance, that wont play on the N800
Mar 25 14:11:43 <GeneralAntilles> and 1700Kbps != Bluray quality.
Mar 25 14:12:33 <Italodance> GeneralAntilles yes i am watching 1700Kbps bitrate with my mplayer
Mar 25 14:12:50 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe at very low resolution with framedrop.
Mar 25 14:12:58 <Italodance> and the best tool is PocketDivXEncoder_0.3.96 FOREVER! besure :D
Mar 25 14:13:21 <pupnik> My media player will be pandora.  Tv-out, dual fullsize SD and omap3530
Mar 25 14:13:38 <GeneralAntilles> How much are they planning on selling for anyway, pupnik?
Mar 25 14:13:45 <pupnik> 300 bucks
Mar 25 14:13:59 <GeneralAntilles> Not even sure it's worth it seeing how horrifyingly ugly it is. <_<
Mar 25 14:14:07 <Jaffa> :)
Mar 25 14:14:21 <GeneralAntilles> It's like they got a bunch of 3rd graders to design it.
Mar 25 14:14:24 <jott> form follows function ;P
Mar 25 14:14:31 <pupnik> If they can produce it at all it will be a small miracle
Mar 25 14:14:32 * Jaffa 'll look at pandora when it actually exists and people have them
Mar 25 14:14:58 <GeneralAntilles> jott, the color selection has nothing at all to do with function.
Mar 25 14:15:06 <GeneralAntilles> Nor the horrifyingly ugly keys.
Mar 25 14:15:15 <jott> they do! *stomp*
Mar 25 14:15:24 <pupnik> hehe
Mar 25 14:15:38 <jott> but i
Mar 25 14:15:55 <jott> m really amazed that they did not ask some serious product designer ;p
Mar 25 14:16:17 <jott> pupnik: do you know how much money is in the company?
Mar 25 14:16:41 * GeneralAntilles is more interested in Pandora code running on an N900.
Mar 25 14:16:43 <jott> like do they get backing from some big investor?
Mar 25 14:17:08 <jott> hehe n900 will run windows mobile ;P
Mar 25 14:17:13 <pupnik> jott the design ideas have been discussed to death and they have gone with the 'no patent violation' and 'functional' design
Mar 25 14:17:18 <pupnik> if you want sexy, get ipod
Mar 25 14:17:32 <Jaffa> jott: a little unlikely, that ;-)
Mar 25 14:17:32 <jott> yeah sure..
Mar 25 14:17:39 <jott> hmm
Mar 25 14:17:39 <GeneralAntilles> Sexy isn't want I want, something that I wont be embarrassed to be seen with in public is. :P
Mar 25 14:17:44 <Jaffa> :)
Mar 25 14:17:57 <jott> still they need some money to bring this to a factory
Mar 25 14:18:14 <pupnik> yes there are private investors
Mar 25 14:18:14 <jott> and either they need a big company or some venture capital
Mar 25 14:18:45 <pupnik> they reduced the unnecessary things that would have jacked up prices
Mar 25 14:19:34 <jott> like opengl drivers? *scnr* :)
Mar 25 14:20:22 <Tobotras> How do I move screen applets? Pressing clock applet, for example, fires clock application...
Mar 25 14:20:29 <jott> still would be nice to see them in real world
Mar 25 14:20:49 <Jaffa> Tobotras: you need to drag it without touching it first; I "sweep" down in a curve and pick it up
Mar 25 14:21:06 <Tobotras> Jaffa: erhm...
Mar 25 14:22:04 <GeneralAntilles> Don't pause.
Mar 25 14:22:09 <GeneralAntilles> Just tap and MOVE.
Mar 25 14:22:50 <Tobotras> I see. The best results is from using of thumb instead of stilo :)
Mar 25 14:22:56 <Jaffa> It's easy when you know how, just impossible to describe :-)
Mar 25 14:28:52 <Tobotras> Jaffa: LOL
Mar 25 14:36:26 <jani> Tobotras: it depends on where you click and drag..
Mar 25 14:37:54 <jani> Tobotras: try dragging from right side of the applet, it shouldnt trigger clock..
Mar 25 14:38:22 <Tobotras> jani: find the silver bullet: use the thumb :)
Mar 25 14:38:25 <Tobotras> found
Mar 25 15:00:58 <pppoe_dude> is gizmo encryption
Mar 25 15:01:03 <pppoe_dude> encrypted*?
Mar 25 15:07:23 <WormFood> what? the executable or the network traffic? (I don't know the answer to either one, just trying to clarify your question)
Mar 25 15:08:25 <pppoe_dude> network traffic
Mar 25 15:08:32 <pppoe_dude> (i.e. audio, etc)
Mar 25 15:08:43 <WormFood> I feel it is rather unlikely that it is
Mar 25 15:10:46 <Lynoure> http://support.gizmoproject.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=printable&kbarticleid=327#19 is the closest I found
Mar 25 15:35:49 <Xtagon> I'm anxious to start developing for Maemo 4.0, and I'm beginning the tutorial, but I have an issue. The scratchbox install script says I can't install it on x86_64. All the OS's I have installed are 64-bit. Do I need to install a 32-bit OS to develop, or can I trick it into working somehow?
Mar 25 15:36:18 <Jaffa> Xtagon: no, it works quite well.
Mar 25 15:36:41 <Xtagon> Checking for prerequisites
Mar 25 15:36:41 <Xtagon> --------------------------
Mar 25 15:36:41 <Xtagon> Running as user root... yes
Mar 25 15:36:41 <Xtagon> Not running as user root inside fakeroot... yes
Mar 25 15:36:41 <Xtagon> Running outside of scratchbox... yes
Mar 25 15:36:42 <Xtagon> Running on Linux kernel... yes
Mar 25 15:36:44 <Xtagon> Running on i386 architecture... no
Mar 25 15:36:46 <Xtagon> E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture.
Mar 25 15:36:50 <Jaffa> Xtagon: just run the installer as 'setarch i386 ./installer.sh"
Mar 25 15:37:07 <Xtagon> Thanks, I'll try that : )
Mar 25 15:39:05 <Xtagon> Works great : D
Mar 25 15:45:25 <Italodance> friends my mplayer can't read *.mp4 files,,,,what can i do? is there any setting?
Mar 25 15:45:41 <Italodance> Rathann|work my mp4 videos are converted by Internet Tablet Video Converter
Mar 25 15:46:03 <Italodance> my media player can read them and no mplayer or ukmp
Mar 25 15:46:11 <Italodance> my mplayer is 24
Mar 25 15:46:19 <Italodance> well it can read mp4 videos but very slow
Mar 25 15:46:32 <Italodance> and it unable to update 25 / 26  why?
Mar 25 15:49:07 <Jaffa> Italodance: mplayer's not well optimised for mp4
Mar 25 15:49:54 <Italodance> Jaffa ummm is there any setting? or another way?
Mar 25 15:49:54 <qwerty12> Who's tried Bundyo's Rc2 version of Mplayer. Much more of an improvement. Flv works perfectly and the menu is a hackers dream :p
Mar 25 15:50:28 <Jaffa> Italodance: use Media Player for your MP4 files. Canola automatically switches to using it, rather than mplayer for playback
Mar 25 15:50:33 <Jaffa> qwerty12: nope, not seen it
Mar 25 15:50:49 <pppoe_dude> Lynoure, thanks
Mar 25 15:50:53 <qwerty12> wait a sec, i'll bring up the link. I love it
Mar 25 15:51:21 <qwerty12> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18231&highlight=mplayer
Mar 25 15:52:52 <Italodance> Jaffa  ukmp can switch to?
Mar 25 15:53:16 <qwerty12> Does anybody know if gnome-doc-utils >= 0.10.0 exists for armel target or will I have to try and hopelessly compile it myself? I found gnome-doc-utils (v. 0.6.1-3.maemo2) but it doesn't work with the thing I am trying to compile.
Mar 25 15:55:41 <Italodance> Jaffa yes my Media Player can play good all mp4 videos
Mar 25 15:56:53 <Jaffa> Italodance: dunno, ask kontorri?
Mar 25 15:57:27 <GeneralAntilles> I doubt it.
Mar 25 15:57:33 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: tablet-encode v2.18's going to have an 'mplayer' preset back. My mencoder doesn't like vbitrate >= 1300, says "bitrate above max bitrate"
Mar 25 15:57:36 * Jaffa too, TBH
Mar 25 15:57:54 <GeneralAntilles> Good stuff, Jaffa.
Mar 25 15:58:01 * GeneralAntilles <3's mediautils.
Mar 25 15:58:50 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: what's the max vbitrate you've used?
Mar 25 15:59:14 <GeneralAntilles> I haven't really done any heavy testing with high bitrates.
Mar 25 15:59:35 <GeneralAntilles> Probably 1200Kbps or so with a 512xsomething South Park episode.
Mar 25 15:59:40 <GeneralAntilles> Worked fine.
Mar 25 15:59:54 <GeneralAntilles> Supposedly rm_you has had luck with 400x240 at 1400Kbps
Mar 25 15:59:56 <Jaffa> Hmm. Oh well, 2.18'll also have the ability to add your own presets in a ~/.tablet-encode.conf
Mar 25 16:00:14 * Jaffa wonders if his Gutsy-provided mencoder is a bit crap
Mar 25 16:03:34 <strayhikari> Jaffa, I have some ogg files with a couple different audio streams and subtitles
Mar 25 16:03:57 <strayhikari> can media converter handle those?
Mar 25 16:04:24 <Jaffa> Which media converter? tablet-encode should be able to, with appropriate options
Mar 25 16:04:39 <strayhikari> hmm let me check
Mar 25 16:04:52 * Jaffa 's support only extends to his own ;-)
Mar 25 16:05:28 <strayhikari> hehe
Mar 25 16:05:51 <strayhikari> I tried media converter last night
Mar 25 16:05:59 <strayhikari> I should try tablet-encode it sounds like?
Mar 25 16:08:56 <Jaffa> Dunno, does http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/tablet-encode.html sound like something you'd like?
Mar 25 16:16:07 <strayhikari> Jaffa sounds pretty cool to me
Mar 25 16:16:11 <strayhikari> building it up
Mar 25 16:17:52 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: Aha, it's the vrc_maxrate thing which needs to be smarter :-)
Mar 25 16:19:33 <strayhikari> wow even better
Mar 25 16:19:59 <strayhikari> I'm an arch user, didn't know if you knew this, but somebody built tablet-encode and put it in our user repositories
Mar 25 16:22:50 <strayhikari> looks like the version is outdated though, 2.0.2 and your newest is 2.0.17?
Mar 25 16:23:04 <Jaffa> strayhikari: correct.
Mar 25 16:25:57 <strayhikari> cool, works like a charm
Mar 25 17:03:48 <Italodance> ummm availabe a video tuner for n800?
Mar 25 17:04:35 <Jaffa> Video "tuner"?
Mar 25 17:04:40 <pusling> what part of the boot process is responsible for the device nodes (and the access) to the memory cards on n800 ?  (I want to start a application from a memory card during boot)
Mar 25 17:04:45 <Veggen_> WormFood? there? think I do have a similar dhcp problem....
Mar 25 17:05:34 <Italodance> Jaffa ah ah mistake tv tuner
Mar 25 17:06:01 <inz> pusling, I think it, at least used to be, ke-recv that mounts the memory cards
Mar 25 17:06:11 <inz> +is
Mar 25 17:06:12 <dtahtbot> inz: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
Mar 25 17:06:18 <inz> Grr
Mar 25 17:06:40 <qwerty12> +i am stupid if I repeat this
Mar 25 17:06:40 <Veggen> pusling: I'd just make a new script run late in init script that tests for the existence of the binary and runs it if it's there?
Mar 25 17:06:41 <dtahtbot> qwerty12: Error: "i" is not a valid command.
Mar 25 17:07:01 <qwerty12> I got beat by a bot :(
Mar 25 17:07:10 <Veggen> that is, after all other init scripts.
Mar 25 17:07:34 <Veggen> instead of modifying those delivered by OS.
Mar 25 17:08:00 <pusling> Veggen: I have tried placing it as S98
Mar 25 17:08:18 <Veggen> doesn't work?
Mar 25 17:09:13 <pusling> Veggen: nope. and if I run mount beore trying to start my app, I get that it isn't mounted - and trying to mount it results in mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc1 failed
Mar 25 17:10:58 <Italodance> MythTv can be a tv tuner ?
Mar 25 17:11:04 <qwerty12> No.
Mar 25 17:11:12 <Italodance> ok
Mar 25 17:11:20 <qwerty12> It can connect to a computer running mythtv though.
Mar 25 17:11:24 <Veggen> pusling: hmm. timing issues? try sleeping a while?
Mar 25 17:11:48 <qwerty12> Italodance: Do you have DVB-H in Iran?
Mar 25 17:12:14 <Italodance> qwerty12 DVB-H?
Mar 25 17:12:19 <Veggen> uh? sure it can. or it can use a tv card.
Mar 25 17:12:32 <Italodance> qwerty12 yes
Mar 25 17:12:33 <pusling> Veggen: I try at both S31 and at S98 - and both fails :/
Mar 25 17:13:14 <Veggen> pusling: try at S98 and sleep 60 before trying?
Mar 25 17:13:20 <Veggen> just for test.
Mar 25 17:13:28 <qwerty12> IF you ever get good DVB-H in Iran, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17704 . It's not fully working afaik and I've never tried it so don't ask me for help.
Mar 25 17:14:05 <Italodance> qwerty12 ummm let's try
Mar 25 17:15:37 <pusling> Veggen: trying .. the only interesting thing run after is the metalayer-crawler (which I have no clue what is - maybe it isn't that interesting after all ...)
Mar 25 17:16:04 <Italodance> but that's hard http://dvbh.kilu.de/
Mar 25 17:16:44 <qwerty12> So don't do it then. It only works if you have a hardware dongle & good DVB-H services
Mar 25 17:18:10 <pusling> is there any way to get "normal" debian style boot output on the screen while booting instead of fancy nokia loko ?
Mar 25 17:18:22 <Italodance> qwerty12 exactly it seems to be a dangerous way
Mar 25 17:18:37 <pusling> qwerty12: why do your nick match my password ?
Mar 25 17:18:52 <qwerty12> pusling: I dunno :P
Mar 25 17:19:22 <qwerty12> I don't know how long you have been here but I've never seen you before and I've been on here a bit frequently recently :p
Mar 25 17:20:24 <qwerty12> pusling: For kernel, Nope, it requires framebuffer support in kernel and some other odd stuff. The framebuffer driver seems to be broken in Kernel, after modifiying the frame buffer c file, I finally get it to compile. I flash it to my N800, only to find it turns off
Mar 25 17:20:34 <qwerty12> Install sysklogd instead and see syslog after boot up.
Mar 25 17:21:40 <pusling> Veggen: sleeping 60 actually gives me what I want. - but it kind of slows the boot process ;)
Mar 25 17:24:22 <Italodance> http://behindmaemolines.blogspot.com/2008/01/os2008-repositories.html   NICE POST :D
Mar 25 17:24:25 <morbec> what kind of information is saved on E_CONTACT_SIP?
Mar 25 17:25:54 <Jaffa> Italodance: You've seen http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ I presume?
Mar 25 17:26:37 <Italodance> Jaffa yes before  ..why?
Mar 25 17:27:11 <qwerty12> Because Gronmayer has all of them.
Mar 25 17:27:17 <qwerty12> With easy installation.
Mar 25 17:27:58 <Italodance> Jaffa qwerty12 yes friends but i am installing offline these now .....till wlan
Mar 25 17:32:25 * Jaffa has severely limited the number of repos he's installed since his last flash. It's just not worth the pain. If an app author wants users, (s)he should put it in extras(-devel)
Mar 25 17:33:26 <prograf> hi to everybody
Mar 25 17:33:34 <Italodance> hi prograf
Mar 25 17:33:37 <qwerty12> Hello
Mar 25 17:34:19 <prograf> I'm new user on 770 and have some troubles... I see this IRC channel on maemo.org and decide to join... :-D
Mar 25 17:34:46 <Italodance> welcome here
Mar 25 17:35:48 <prograf> I have a little/big question... I'm Macintosh user too... and I like to synchronize contacts between Mac->700, is this possible?
Mar 25 17:36:44 <snake_mountain> profraf:  sadly, no
Mar 25 17:36:55 <prograf> damm
Mar 25 17:36:58 <GeneralAntilles> vcards work, prograf.
Mar 25 17:37:09 <GeneralAntilles> Just export from Address Book
Mar 25 17:37:13 <GeneralAntilles> copy it over
Mar 25 17:37:19 <GeneralAntilles> and import into Contacts on the 770.
Mar 25 17:38:11 <prograf> I see, I try to export vcards on address book but Contacts on 770 don't have register to phone or address, is this correct?
Mar 25 17:39:14 <GeneralAntilles> Installing gpe-contacts is also an option.
Mar 25 17:39:55 <prograf> ok. an need import contact to contact or I can impor all vCard at one time?
Mar 25 17:41:00 <GeneralAntilles> It'll import as a batch if you export as a batch
Mar 25 17:41:09 <GeneralAntilles> (i.e. export to a single file)
Mar 25 17:41:34 <qwerty12> Is there a way to make a deb file without dh_make. That shit is pissing me off. I don't need any scripts to run, I've made a directory structure 8-)
Mar 25 17:43:37 <Jaffa> qwerty12: see PyPackager and Theme Maker. They both make debs without using the debian tools
Mar 25 17:44:55 <prograf> ok, then in Address Book on Macintosh export to an unique file called (by example) vCard, and then in GPE-Contacts impor all contact from this unique file, if I understand correctly?
Mar 25 17:45:00 <qwerty12> Jaffa: Thanks, I think PyPackager will work, I just can't be bothered with all the typing :( but I guess I am being picky. I don't know if I would be able to adapt Theme Maker for my purpose, unless I "rip" the finished deb and replace files. But I believe the file is md5summed.
Mar 25 17:45:43 <webustany> prograf: there was a time when evolution-data-server crashed on multi contacts vcards...
Mar 25 17:45:49 <webustany> prograf: maybe it's been fixed now
Mar 25 17:45:57 <webustany> oh wait, it was with contacts
Mar 25 17:46:01 <webustany> not gpe-contacts
Mar 25 17:49:07 <KaaLi> what do i need if i want to use my phone with n810...   including messages and contacts..   over BT
Mar 25 17:50:04 <inz> KaaLi, you need to write an application that does that
Mar 25 17:50:11 <webustany> :p
Mar 25 17:50:22 <inz> KaaLi, or use gammu/gnokii from command line
Mar 25 17:50:35 <webustany> isn't there wammu for n810 ?
Mar 25 17:50:39 <KaaLi> sounds nice
Mar 25 17:51:28 <snake_mountain> Hello.  Anyone have sqlite3 running on N770?
Mar 25 17:51:32 <webustany> I'm trying to connect an EAP-TLS network, I imported the certificate but it doesn't show in the certificates control panel
Mar 25 17:51:47 <webustany> when I try to import it again, it says "already imported"
Mar 25 17:52:00 <Veggen> pusling: from your startup-script, launch another script in the background that for 10 repetitions or so tries to find the binary and launch, but sleep 5 seconds and tries again upon failure.
Mar 25 17:53:09 <Veggen> a little ugly, but it should work.
Mar 25 18:00:36 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: if you get a chance, could you do some testing of v2.18 of tablet-encode? https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/tablet-encode/?root=mediautils - changelog in: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/tablet-encode/README.txt?root=mediautils&rev=67&view=markup
Mar 25 18:01:53 <GeneralAntilles> Will do. Probably sometime tonight or tomorrow morning (EDT).
Mar 25 18:04:03 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: ...and if you see rm_you this evening (and I don't), can you poke him to do similar?
Mar 25 18:04:52 * Jaffa thinks --epsiodes is going to be quite handy for his trip to San Francisco (11 hr flight :-/)
Mar 25 18:06:05 <qwerty12> Wow, San Francisco that far from UK? Or is it timezone difference? Don't hate me, I've never been out of the UK :(
Mar 25 18:06:26 <GeneralAntilles> 7 hour timezone difference.
Mar 25 18:06:31 <Jaffa> Flight there: we land 3 hours after taking off. Flight back: we land 19 hours after taking off :-(
Mar 25 18:06:38 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: 8, actually.
Mar 25 18:06:44 <GeneralAntilles> DST
Mar 25 18:06:52 <Jaffa> In both countries :-)
Mar 25 18:07:10 <derf> Jaffa: Tokyo -> DC I landed 2 hours before I took off.
Mar 25 18:07:20 <Jaffa> derf: cool :)
Mar 25 18:08:11 <KaaLi> was a funny bit in jack ass movie...   they were near japan where day changes..    it was friday...   and an hour later it was thursday again..
Mar 25 18:08:50 <qwerty12> I love jackass, I've seen 1 & 2 uncensored. I have yet to watch 2.5 & 3 when it comes out :p
Mar 25 18:09:13 <KaaLi> 2.5?
Mar 25 18:09:34 <qwerty12> Yeah, some movie they released before 3.
Mar 25 18:10:00 <qwerty12> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackass:_Number_Two#Jackass_2.5
Mar 25 18:15:11 <prograf> ok I try with GPE-Contact but not import an unique file... and I've more than 700 contact in my address book...
Mar 25 18:18:23 <prograf> :-(
Mar 25 18:19:11 <Italodance> someone has hildon-libs0 (>= 0.12.22-1),  ?
Mar 25 18:33:54 <EruditeHermit> is there a simple way to get screen rotation working?
Mar 25 18:34:17 <wom-> what do you mean by simple?
Mar 25 18:34:25 <EruditeHermit> how hard is it?
Mar 25 18:34:42 <EruditeHermit> do I need to do a kernel recompile?
Mar 25 18:35:05 <wom-> no
Mar 25 18:35:06 <wom-> http://sse2.net/rotate/
Mar 25 18:35:16 <wom-> there are quite nice instructions
Mar 25 18:35:19 <wom-> and kernel you need
Mar 25 18:37:49 <_massi_> hello! does anybody know where the maps application saves its maps, and if it's possible to (eventually) move them somewhere else, maybe using a symlink?
Mar 25 18:38:00 <EruditeHermit> wom-: is it stable?
Mar 25 18:38:32 <_massi_> my root partition is almost full, and I guess those maps take most of the space...
Mar 25 18:39:00 <kulve> _massi_: the maps are in the internal flash in n810, no in the root fs
Mar 25 18:39:09 <kulve> i.e. internal mmc
Mar 25 18:39:23 <_massi_> kulve: I have an n800
Mar 25 18:39:48 <kulve> well, same thing. They are in the internal mmc by default, afaik
Mar 25 18:39:53 <_massi_> are they in the internal slot?
Mar 25 18:39:59 <kulve> yup
Mar 25 18:40:00 <_massi_> ah,ok, thanks
Mar 25 18:40:09 <derf> _massi_: There's a config option that specifies the path to the map database.
Mar 25 18:40:33 <_massi_> derf: I cannot find it...
Mar 25 18:40:36 <derf> Well, one for each map repository, I believe.
Mar 25 18:40:38 <wom-> EruditeHermit: pretty good
Mar 25 18:40:57 <derf> Under "manage repositories" or some such.
Mar 25 18:41:14 <derf> Copy the .db's, change the config, delete the original .db's.
Mar 25 18:42:00 <EruditeHermit> wom-: will give it a try thanks
Mar 25 18:42:26 <_massi_> derf: I'm speaking of "maps", not maemo mapper... I cannot find that option in maps
Mar 25 18:42:49 <derf> _massi_: Oh. I misunderstood.
Mar 25 18:42:56 <derf> I've never actually used "maps".
Mar 25 18:42:58 <_massi_> anyway, I found the map directory in my internal sd
Mar 25 18:44:19 <_massi_> derf: well, it's maps are good (I live in Italy), but it does not keep track of your route (no "trail" in the display), so maemo mapper is still a better experience
Mar 25 18:44:59 <_massi_> derf: on the other hand, with maps I can look up addresses without having a net connection...
Mar 25 18:45:20 <_massi_> derf: I'm speaking if the free "version" of maps
Mar 25 18:46:47 <derf> The fs they shipped on my internal memory card was corrupt, so I had to reformat and lots the maps it shipped with, and I've never bothered to re-download them.
Mar 25 18:47:27 <kulve> derf: how did you reformat it? On my device the format option is dimmed.. Maybe because I'm using swap there..?
Mar 25 18:47:47 <derf> kulve: Over USB.
Mar 25 18:47:53 <derf> Yeah, I disabled swap first.
Mar 25 18:48:15 <kulve> ok
Mar 25 19:15:40 <stulli> hello
Mar 25 19:16:16 <webustany> hi
Mar 25 19:25:26 <stulli> has someone here managed to put cwiid to use?
Mar 25 19:29:30 * lcuk wonders how ppl function on only a couple of hours sleep
Mar 25 19:29:55 <wom-> generally they dont :)
Mar 25 19:30:08 <lcuk> that would be why i feel as crap as i do
Mar 25 19:30:51 <wom-> you should go to sleep
Mar 25 19:30:57 <wom-> sleeping is the best thing ever
Mar 25 19:31:48 <lcuk> goin to asa missus gets back from shops
Mar 25 19:33:05 <wom-> asa, shop in uk?
Mar 25 19:33:20 <lcuk> as soon as
Mar 25 19:33:26 <wom-> aaah :)
Mar 25 19:33:32 <wom-> maybe i should get some sleep
Mar 25 19:33:57 <webustany> is maemo-launcher supposed to use 50% of my RAM ?
Mar 25 19:34:04 <webustany>  6816 user     SW     54808  6063  0.9 43.1 maemo-launcher
Mar 25 19:34:10 <webustany> (top output)
Mar 25 19:34:25 <lcuk> is that sustained or just whilst its munching a file
Mar 25 19:34:38 <webustany> sustained
Mar 25 19:34:45 <webustany> I've mediabox running
Mar 25 19:34:48 <webustany> playing a m4a
Mar 25 19:34:53 <webustany> no other apps
Mar 25 19:35:06 <lcuk> doesnt sound right
Mar 25 19:35:06 <webustany> gnome vfs daemons also eats 40%
Mar 25 19:35:19 <webustany> I tried to kill it once, it rebooted the box :p
Mar 25 19:35:21 <lcuk> so you have about 1kb of memory
Mar 25 19:35:38 <lcuk> have you added symlinks
Mar 25 19:36:00 <webustany> huh ? symlinks ?
Mar 25 19:36:07 <webustany> I have a virtual memory of 128m
Mar 25 19:36:39 <lcuk> if you dont know about symlinks chances are you havent added any :)
Mar 25 19:36:50 <webustany> I know what a symlink is
Mar 25 19:36:56 <lcuk> i cant even turn mine on battery flat
Mar 25 19:36:56 <webustany> but don't know why I'd have added some...
Mar 25 19:37:47 <lcuk> if you add a link to / from your home you can access it from the explorer thingy
Mar 25 19:38:06 <webustany> I see, I use the terminal :)
Mar 25 19:38:14 <webustany> or store my docs in the standard place
Mar 25 19:41:03 <lcuk>  1137 user     SW<    31480  1057  4.1 24.7 maemo-launcher
Mar 25 19:41:19 <skibur> is this right????  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150229346412
Mar 25 19:41:22 <webustany> hmmm
Mar 25 19:41:52 <skibur> o_O
Mar 25 19:43:02 <lcuk> well black is available
Mar 25 19:43:03 <lcuk> http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=eee+black&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
Mar 25 19:43:43 <skibur> but for .99?
Mar 25 19:44:09 <lcuk> why not? its a starting bid
Mar 25 19:44:13 <skibur> + shipping 19.99
Mar 25 19:44:13 <dtahtbot> skibur: Error: "shipping" is not a valid command.
Mar 25 19:44:31 <skibur> plus shipping
Mar 25 19:44:36 <skibur> $19.99
Mar 25 19:45:05 <lcuk> yer, its got 8 days to go - lots of auctions start that price then work their way to usual ebay selling price
Mar 25 19:45:15 <lcuk> you not used to ebay?
Mar 25 19:45:21 <skibur> this comp cost $300
Mar 25 19:45:31 <lcuk> and?
Mar 25 19:45:50 <koyote> lower starting bids and realisticshipping gnerally == more profit
Mar 25 19:45:52 <skibur> o ok, I'm not a E-bay User
Mar 25 19:46:04 <koyote> one of the core rules of ebay selling, especially for technology items
Mar 25 19:46:21 <skibur> I see
Mar 25 19:46:57 <koyote> i have suggestions if you want an eee
Mar 25 19:47:21 <skibur> ok
Mar 25 19:47:28 <lcuk> best suggestion is: buy from a reputable shop.  they are cheap enough the warranty is worth it :)
Mar 25 19:47:31 <koyote> as of a week ago when i last checked, the 4g surf in BLACK had the ram access door for easy ram upgrades
Mar 25 19:47:40 <koyote> the white requires a full disassembly.
Mar 25 19:47:48 <prograf> bye tomorrow I'm back and try another things
Mar 25 19:47:58 <koyote> no webcam, but whoopdedo. $329 instead of $399
Mar 25 19:48:11 <skibur> hum...
Mar 25 19:48:36 <koyote> upgrade to 2GB ram, put in a 8GB sdhc card, and you are still right at $400
Mar 25 19:48:42 <koyote> we have 2.
Mar 25 19:49:11 <lcuk> wish they would hurry up and put touch in there - even though the form factor doesnt quite ssuit it
Mar 25 19:49:16 <skibur> without a cam
Mar 25 19:55:51 <koyote> shrug. the touchscreen isn't that big a loss (used to have a lifebook that did have it)
Mar 25 19:55:59 <koyote> it's a HUGE machine.
Mar 25 19:56:04 <koyote> compared to a n800
Mar 25 19:57:10 <m-c> So, for the last couple weeks, I was like - yeah, the N800 is liquid awesome, but I can't plug my USB devices into it, so it's not everything I need.  BUT...
Mar 25 19:58:02 <m-c> I found this today.  I am not very familiar with Bluetooth, do you think it would allow the N800 to connect with any kind of USB device, like memory sticks?  http://usb.brando.com.hk/prod_detail.php?prod_id=00142&dept_id=015&cat_id=036
Mar 25 19:58:13 <m-c> wish it was BT 2.0
Mar 25 20:00:00 <skibur> :)
Mar 25 20:00:29 <m-c> Furthermore, how many devices can the BT 2.0 in the N800 connect with at once?  Anyone tried more than one pairing?
Mar 25 20:00:39 <skibur> any nice hacks for N800/N810?
Mar 25 20:00:59 <m-c> skibur: endless number of nice hacks
Mar 25 20:01:06 <koyote> m-c: hrm.
Mar 25 20:01:17 <koyote> why not a powered usb hub?
Mar 25 20:01:45 <m-c> koyote: and connect via the N800 USB port?
Mar 25 20:01:51 <skibur> I only have KDE on mine.  Thats about it.
Mar 25 20:03:13 <koyote> m-c: you need usb hacks, but i think it'll work. look at the forums
Mar 25 20:03:47 <m-c> I'd rather not do the USB hacks, but, yeah, I know what you mean.  I'd like to start moving toward all BT and WiFi connections.
Mar 25 20:04:07 <m-c> I want to start getting into embedded computing.
Mar 25 20:04:37 <koyote> then working usb host is important for a whole slew of reasons
Mar 25 20:04:46 <m-c> Going to try and cut the tether of computing
Mar 25 20:06:08 <m-c> What do you think about multiple BT devices?
Mar 25 20:06:37 <koyote> bandwidth limits
Mar 25 20:06:58 <m-c> yeah - but have you gotten multiple devices to work on the N8x0 ?
Mar 25 20:07:57 <m-c> USB isn't exactly screaming fast bandwidth either...
Mar 25 20:08:13 <m-c> You can get 2.1 Mbit/s on the BT in the N8x0
Mar 25 20:09:04 <koyote> but why should i HAVE to use bt instead of usb to connect my external drive?
Mar 25 20:09:18 <m-c> Hmm - I just looked up USB 2.0 -- 480 Mbit/s
Mar 25 20:09:33 <glass> usb is pretty wide
Mar 25 20:09:45 <glass> but the parts probably arent that fast
Mar 25 20:09:50 <glass> a lot slower..
Mar 25 20:10:06 <m-c> That's for "Hi-Speed"... not sure that's supported.  Full-Speed is 12 Mbit/s
Mar 25 20:10:34 <m-c> koyote: Will hacking the kernel for host-USB-mode screw anything else up?
Mar 25 20:10:50 <koyote> dunno, haven't done it yet nor read all the threads
Mar 25 20:10:52 <m-c> I'm always reluctant to bring the device too far from the defaults, since I use it so much.
Mar 25 20:11:22 <m-c> Well, then, in answer to your question, why you would use BT over USB, is because you can do it without mucking around with the kernel.
Mar 25 20:11:51 <koyote> well, clone it over to an sd card and run a testing environment
Mar 25 20:12:09 <glass> m-c: also, less wires is sometimes useful
Mar 25 20:12:16 <koyote> of course
Mar 25 20:12:26 <koyote> but this XOR thing is weird to me
Mar 25 20:12:30 <m-c> I'm halfway considering buying a second N800 just for a sandbox.
Mar 25 20:12:30 <koyote> both is better.
Mar 25 20:12:36 <koyote> just clone
Mar 25 20:12:43 <koyote> then you have dual boot
Mar 25 20:13:29 <m-c> No one has tried multiple BT devices at the same time?  Surprised.
Mar 25 20:13:47 <KotCzarny> maybe no one has multiple bt devices
Mar 25 20:13:48 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 20:14:13 <m-c> I figured many people would have a headphone and a keyboard, at least.
Mar 25 20:15:08 <koyote> i am sure someone has run a bt-phone data connection and bt keyboard at the same time
Mar 25 20:15:22 <koyote> but your sampling universe is less than 2 dozen people on irc
Mar 25 20:15:40 <koyote> the forums. use the forums. search a bit
Mar 25 20:16:11 <MangoFusion> i could send files as well as use a bt keyboard once i recall
Mar 25 20:17:28 <m-c> okay, thanks - that helps a lot.  Now I know the N8x0 is capable of BT host mode.
Mar 25 20:20:50 <Cptnodegard> ive had the bt igo connected, cellphone connected for internet, and at the same time sending a file from the same cell
Mar 25 20:21:09 <m-c> nice - thanks Cptnodegard
Mar 25 20:21:10 <Cptnodegard> but the KB laggs if you have BT DUN on and type too fast
Mar 25 20:21:22 <KotCzarny> kb lags even without
Mar 25 20:21:26 <Cptnodegard> it eeeennnndssss uuuppp liikke ttthhisss
Mar 25 20:21:29 <KotCzarny> probably some power saving
Mar 25 20:21:31 <Cptnodegard> literally
Mar 25 20:21:36 <KotCzarny> my n-gage worked perfectly
Mar 25 20:21:39 <KotCzarny> no lag at all
Mar 25 20:22:05 <Cptnodegard> lagg as in letters being triple, not lagg as in slow
Mar 25 20:22:27 <KotCzarny> i experienced lag similiar to ssh with max wifi powersaving
Mar 25 20:23:02 <KotCzarny> if it's not used for a few seconds it goes to sleep or something (n800)
Mar 25 20:23:26 <elb> I've never noticed that being a problem for ssh
Mar 25 20:23:40 * Jaffa belatedly confirms yes, you can run two BT devices (e.g. phone for network connection and keyboard) at the same time. Also, OS2008 doesn't need a powered hub or other form of hack to use USB devices such as memory sticks. If you can get a physical connection (e.g. USB female-A to female-A gender changer) it's fully supported.
Mar 25 20:23:44 <m-c> I sure have - frustrating to the point of now wanting to use it
Mar 25 20:23:52 <Cptnodegard> thats annoying indeed.... if you dont realize, and type along, it can end up closing apps and removing desktop apps (from view)
Mar 25 20:23:59 <Cptnodegard> happened to me twice
Mar 25 20:24:09 <m-c> Jaffa: nice!!!!  thanks!!
Mar 25 20:24:16 <elb> I mean, specifically, ssh'ing into an n810 on the local network
Mar 25 20:24:26 <Cptnodegard> most flash drives anyways
Mar 25 20:24:34 <Cptnodegard> 100 or 100mah limit
Mar 25 20:24:38 <Cptnodegard> 200*
Mar 25 20:24:44 <koyote> Jaffa: ?
Mar 25 20:24:53 <m-c> elb - yes, ssh over wifi and the typing would stall out every couple seconds
Mar 25 20:24:57 <koyote> i could use a usb keyboard without any mucking around?
Mar 25 20:25:03 <elb> yeah, I've never noticed that
Mar 25 20:25:05 <m-c> elb - using OS2007
Mar 25 20:25:34 <elb> which isn't to say it doesn't happen, I don't ssh to it very often
Mar 25 20:25:44 <elb> I normally leave it in offline mode to conserve power, in fact
Mar 25 20:26:20 <koyote> i want my wifi ON when it's on and OFF when it's off. very simple, really
Mar 25 20:26:57 <KotCzarny> koyote: yes
Mar 25 20:27:19 <Cptnodegard> i leave it online, doesnt use much
Mar 25 20:27:39 <KotCzarny> cpt: wrong
Mar 25 20:27:45 <KotCzarny> it's like a 2x times difference
Mar 25 20:27:50 <Cptnodegard> oh noes
Mar 25 20:27:51 <KotCzarny> wifi on/off
Mar 25 20:27:53 <Cptnodegard> someone call the army
Mar 25 20:27:56 <Cptnodegard> :)
Mar 25 20:28:11 <elb> 1/2 the usable time would be annoying for me
Mar 25 20:28:30 <Cptnodegard> what i meant is, i dont mind charging it every day, i use it so much i have to do that anyways, so the online mode dont make any differece
Mar 25 20:28:36 <elb> 1/2 the usable sleep time wouldn't be a big deal, I don't know how it would impact actual use
Mar 25 20:28:37 <KotCzarny> but if you browse actively it's still down to 3h anyway
Mar 25 20:28:40 <KotCzarny> so not a big deal
Mar 25 20:28:41 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 20:28:43 <elb> except for the fact that the batteries are so damn expensive
Mar 25 20:29:07 <elb> I do a lot of document viewing, for which I get many hours of useful life
Mar 25 20:29:12 <elb> I'm not sure how many ... but at least 7 or 8
Mar 25 20:52:45 <m-c> Just got a BT headset working to make a VoIP call over WiFi.  Worked very well.
Mar 25 20:53:06 <KotCzarny> n8x0 ftw!
Mar 25 20:54:05 <ivy> mornin
Mar 25 20:54:39 <m-c> KotCzarny: seriously.  I think it'll replace my cell phone and maybe even my desktop in the next year
Mar 25 20:55:38 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 20:56:06 <KotCzarny> i could use external battery pack
Mar 25 20:56:12 <elb> I can't see any such device ever replacing a cell phone
Mar 25 20:56:20 <KotCzarny> that will attach to the back
Mar 25 20:56:25 <m-c> KotCzarny: it's called an extension cord
Mar 25 20:56:43 <KotCzarny> m-c: that's a wired solution
Mar 25 20:57:20 <m-c> well, how about this...
Mar 25 20:57:38 <KotCzarny> http://www.sourcingmap.com/external-lithium-ion-battery-pack-for-psp-3200-mah-500-p-1436.html?campaign=1002
Mar 25 20:58:06 <m-c> I used to lug a laptop around with me when I traveled for work.  I always had a second battery charged up in my bag for long plane trips
Mar 25 20:58:19 <KotCzarny> 3.2Ah is ~2.5 times of the internal one
Mar 25 20:58:27 <m-c> you think maybe you could swap out batteries?
Mar 25 20:58:37 <KotCzarny> it has usb connector
Mar 25 20:59:01 <KotCzarny> so simply getting usb--nokia plug will be enough
Mar 25 20:59:11 <KotCzarny> swapping batteries sucks
Mar 25 20:59:18 <KotCzarny> you have to reboot the device
Mar 25 20:59:34 <m-c> it doesn't suck as much as carrying around a huge Ion Battery Pack
Mar 25 20:59:42 <KotCzarny> it's not that huge
Mar 25 20:59:49 <m-c> What do you care about reboots... it's a solid state device
Mar 25 20:59:53 <KotCzarny> i believe it's ~ size of n8x0
Mar 25 21:00:02 <KotCzarny> but you loose your workstate
Mar 25 21:00:12 <elb> also, the n8x0 battery costs more than that battery, which stores more than twice as much power
Mar 25 21:00:31 <elb> because Nokia, like all other small device companies, worships this stupidass battery conspiracy
Mar 25 21:01:03 <elb> and, solid state or not, you lose state when you reboot, and state is valuable
Mar 25 21:01:10 <m-c> you think charging through the USB port is safe?
Mar 25 21:01:15 <KotCzarny> no
Mar 25 21:01:19 <KotCzarny> you misunderstood me
Mar 25 21:01:21 <elb> you should try paying a little bit of attention
Mar 25 21:01:24 <KotCzarny> it has usb plug
Mar 25 21:01:28 <m-c> ooohhh!
Mar 25 21:01:34 <KotCzarny> so get usb--nokia charging plug
Mar 25 21:01:37 <KotCzarny> and you're set
Mar 25 21:01:49 <KotCzarny> usb plug --- nokia 2mm plug
Mar 25 21:02:08 <elb> which is also stupid
Mar 25 21:02:12 <KotCzarny> yup
Mar 25 21:02:23 <KotCzarny> but still doable
Mar 25 21:02:26 <elb> why the F would a company change a perfectly good power plug used by gajillions of devices
Mar 25 21:02:28 <KotCzarny> because no electronics are needed
Mar 25 21:02:46 <m-c> KotCzarny: and you think this is better than carrying around and using the plug?
Mar 25 21:02:55 <KotCzarny> yes
Mar 25 21:02:57 <elb> power supply for portable devices is a totally ridiculous situation
Mar 25 21:03:08 <Jsn> Does anyone know how to turn off the "pop checking email" notification in claws mail?  I tried to turn it off in the preferences but it will not go off
Mar 25 21:03:14 <elb> m-c: carrying around the plug is only reasonable if you can camp by outlets
Mar 25 21:03:16 <KotCzarny> because for example on the plane you don't have access to ac/dc power
Mar 25 21:03:20 <KotCzarny> unless you travel first class
Mar 25 21:03:30 <KotCzarny> but then you have enough money for anything
Mar 25 21:03:31 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 21:03:35 <elb> and heaven forbid you're European
Mar 25 21:03:43 <elb> where the power plug is larger than the battery pack he's looking at ;-)
Mar 25 21:03:47 <m-c> elb: Camping outlets is standard for laptop users
Mar 25 21:03:52 <KotCzarny> elb: not necessarily
Mar 25 21:03:53 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 21:03:56 <elb> m-c: that doesn't make it non-stupid
Mar 25 21:04:07 <KotCzarny> there are also ones similiar to us lite plug
Mar 25 21:04:23 <elb> the fact that one particular technology has unfortunate limitations does not mean we should strive to impose those limitations on all other technologies
Mar 25 21:04:35 <elb> KotCzarny: yeah, the "shaver" plugs or whatever
Mar 25 21:04:42 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 21:04:44 * Jaffa fancies a small adapter, which is MicroUSB on one end and Nokia 2mm power on the other (possibly also replicating the USB port). Then I can have it as a small dongle in my gadget bag.
Mar 25 21:05:12 <koyote> man, i used to have usb cable adaptor stuff
Mar 25 21:05:16 <koyote> and i cannot find it
Mar 25 21:05:16 <KotCzarny> 21st century dongle man
Mar 25 21:05:19 * KotCzarny rocks
Mar 25 21:06:02 <KotCzarny> hmm, that psp battery pack could use some velcro
Mar 25 21:07:09 <m-c> I like to tell the story, "What's the biggest part of the computer?"  People always say, "The monitor."  Of course, the answer is "The power supply."  We just hide most of that infrastructure, but we need a power generation station, transmission wires, and transformers, just to make the computer work.
Mar 25 21:07:24 <koyote> i have an external pack, it's pretty cool.
Mar 25 21:07:25 <KotCzarny> m-c: not true
Mar 25 21:07:32 <KotCzarny> get a solar panel
Mar 25 21:07:35 <KotCzarny> or a crank
Mar 25 21:07:36 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 25 21:07:43 <m-c> not for a desktop
Mar 25 21:07:49 <KotCzarny> why not?
Mar 25 21:07:56 <koyote> i need an adaptor to make it work with the n800, though
Mar 25 21:07:56 <KotCzarny> there a re low power pcs too
Mar 25 21:07:57 <m-c> you can't crank 450 W
Mar 25 21:08:28 <koyote> 1: you can charge batteries. nothing in the pc actually runs off of ac
Mar 25 21:08:30 <KotCzarny> m-c: not true
Mar 25 21:08:38 <elb> it's ridiculous that desktops even draw 450W
Mar 25 21:08:45 <koyote> 2: you can buy 12dc power supplies for your desktop case
Mar 25 21:08:46 <elb> (in the main, they don't, of course)
Mar 25 21:08:58 <KotCzarny> dc power ftw!
Mar 25 21:09:05 <koyote> 3: VERY VERY few times will you actually draw 450 watts
Mar 25 21:09:31 <koyote> KotCzarny: dc is more efficient in this case as a battery system is going to work without inverters, right?
Mar 25 21:09:31 <KotCzarny> koyote: unless you are pc gamer with 3x nvidia
Mar 25 21:09:32 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 25 21:09:47 <KotCzarny> koyota: which case?
Mar 25 21:09:55 <koyote> if you need a 3x nividia stay on the grid
Mar 25 21:10:06 <KotCzarny> you simply get voltage regulator
Mar 25 21:10:07 <koyote> KotCzarny: any standard case
Mar 25 21:10:15 <KotCzarny> and provide enough amps
Mar 25 21:10:30 <koyote> no, KotCzarny- you need the ps to do the 12, 5v, neg 5v, etc
Mar 25 21:10:39 <KotCzarny> nop
Mar 25 21:10:46 <KotCzarny> that's what voltage regulators are
Mar 25 21:10:53 <KotCzarny> 12V -> anything
Mar 25 21:11:05 <MangoFusion> man, i wish i still had my acorn
Mar 25 21:11:19 <KotCzarny> mango: autumn will be there soon
Mar 25 21:11:19 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 25 21:11:39 <koyote> http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/.f
Mar 25 21:12:13 <KotCzarny> koyote: yes, and it's based on voltage regulators
Mar 25 21:12:16 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 21:12:20 <koyote> plural.
Mar 25 21:12:31 <KotCzarny> may be single
Mar 25 21:12:41 <KotCzarny> if has multiple outputs
Mar 25 21:12:42 <elb> lord hopes it wouldn't be voltage regulators
Mar 25 21:12:44 <koyote> a voltage regulator is not enough. there's a lot more going on to give the necessary voltage and clean power
Mar 25 21:12:53 <elb> there are possibly worse ways to trim down battery power, but I wouldn't know what
Mar 25 21:13:04 <koyote> but you know more than i do, i just build power supplies for ham radios
Mar 25 21:13:25 <koyote> elb: measured voltage loss in line length!
Mar 25 21:13:40 <KotCzarny> elb: v-r are in every device anyway
Mar 25 21:13:58 <elb> voltage regulators are *not* doing the 12v-5v conversion
Mar 25 21:14:13 <KotCzarny> i may be naming it wrong
Mar 25 21:14:26 <elb> ... because a voltage regulator essentially burns off the voltage difference as wasted power
Mar 25 21:14:27 <koyote> aw, come on. one component VR to do noisy car powred +2vdc to -5vdc?
Mar 25 21:14:32 <koyote> hehehehehehe
Mar 25 21:14:43 <KotCzarny> elb: not really
Mar 25 21:14:46 <elb> yes, really
Mar 25 21:14:53 <KotCzarny> there are efficient ones
Mar 25 21:15:01 <KotCzarny> with >90% efficiency
Mar 25 21:15:02 <koyote> KotCzarny: you may be looking for words like transformer
Mar 25 21:15:06 <elb> seriously, that's the *definition* of "voltage regulator"
Mar 25 21:15:17 <elb> you're talking about something different, if you're talking about 90% efficiency
Mar 25 21:15:37 <KotCzarny> elb: lm2576 etc?
Mar 25 21:15:44 <elb> voltage regulators are a good choice for turning something that's *about* 5v into something which *is* 5v
Mar 25 21:15:56 <elb> but for large power reduction, they're very wasteful
Mar 25 21:16:00 <koyote> and cleaning up the power.
Mar 25 21:16:19 <elb> I suspect this is just a terminology problem
Mar 25 21:16:25 <elb> voltage regulator means something rather specific
Mar 25 21:16:46 * KotCzarny is esl speaker
Mar 25 21:16:48 <elb> the lm2576 is a switching power supply
Mar 25 21:16:48 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 21:17:05 <KotCzarny> LM2576/LM2576HV Series SIMPLE SWITCHER 3A Step-Down Voltage Regulat
Mar 25 21:17:10 <KotCzarny> or
Mar 25 21:17:21 <elb> a "voltage regulator" is basically just a transistor
Mar 25 21:17:56 <KotCzarny> what i meant there are single chips that do 24V -> 3-30V conversion
Mar 25 21:18:02 <KotCzarny> with >90% efficiency
Mar 25 21:18:45 <elb> well, not >90%, but yeah
Mar 25 21:18:50 <KotCzarny> yes, >90%
Mar 25 21:18:58 <elb> I mean, there may be very specific circumstances where you can get >90%
Mar 25 21:18:59 <KotCzarny> but those are more expensive ones
Mar 25 21:19:00 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 21:19:12 <elb> power conversion is generally not a pretty picture
Mar 25 21:19:28 <KotCzarny> and efficiency is related to specific cases i agree
Mar 25 21:19:50 <KotCzarny> but still, ac-dc power supplies are more wastefull
Mar 25 21:20:03 <elb> absolutely
Mar 25 21:20:19 <elb> well, again, there's more to it than that, but generally speaking, yeah
Mar 25 21:20:27 <elb> that depends on things like how good you need your DC to be ;-)
Mar 25 21:20:33 <KotCzarny> good.
Mar 25 21:20:33 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 25 21:20:36 <qwerty12_N800> i have a quick q, if you have modules for something but you didn't choose to enable them in the kernel ; can you stilll insmod th
Mar 25 21:20:42 <KotCzarny> they're not that expensive
Mar 25 21:20:44 <KotCzarny> i mean chips
Mar 25 21:20:48 <elb> (for non-computing purposes, simple rectified AC is sometimes good enough)
Mar 25 21:20:54 <qwerty12_N800> insmod the modules fine?
Mar 25 21:20:55 <KotCzarny> qwerty: yes
Mar 25 21:21:04 <KotCzarny> as long they have compatible magic
Mar 25 21:21:20 <qwerty12_N800> ok thanks :), i wasn't sure
Mar 25 21:21:21 <KotCzarny> which may be kernel version, gcc used, compilation options
Mar 25 21:24:10 <KotCzarny> bbl
Mar 25 21:26:39 <WorkingOnWise> Is the N800 true stereo output, or mono from 2 speakers
Mar 25 21:28:37 <||cw> at that distance, does it matter?
Mar 25 21:28:47 <||cw> the headphones are true stereo
Mar 25 21:30:21 <WorkingOnWise> it does matter if I can find a way to broadcast it's output to the internet
Mar 25 21:31:16 <||cw> wouldn
Mar 25 21:31:18 <||cw> er
Mar 25 21:32:04 <||cw> wouldn't that depend on headphone+line in or using something else to redirect the sound?  or are you thinking 2 little mic's?
Mar 25 21:33:11 <WorkingOnWise> I am hoping for something like cat /dev/audio-out-device | /dev/audio-in-device
Mar 25 21:33:47 <WorkingOnWise> but I dont know enough to know if my attempts would fail or just not strung together right
Mar 25 21:37:50 <||cw> that wouldn't work, since out is out, not input.
Mar 25 21:38:01 <koyote> okay, can anyone confirm a usb keyboard working on os2008 on an n800?
Mar 25 21:38:08 <koyote> before i get out the soldering iron
Mar 25 21:38:16 <||cw> you need to tap into the stream in the API, assumin the app in question is usig one that can be tapped into
Mar 25 21:43:12 <Veggen> hmm. i need an alt-key. anyone knows what it maps to?
Mar 25 21:43:34 <Veggen> (i.e. can catch it with xev?)
Mar 25 21:44:25 <elb> that will depend on your keymap
Mar 25 21:44:36 <elb> but what do you mean by you "need an alt-key"?
Mar 25 21:44:50 <elb> you need to generate an alt keystroke?
Mar 25 21:45:00 <elb> for terminals, ESC will probably suffice
Mar 25 21:45:17 <Blafasel> 'Sounds' like he wants to catch it in his application
Mar 25 21:45:21 <elb> for non-termanals, use xmodmap to find out what's bound to Mod1, and use one of those
Mar 25 21:45:28 <elb> to catch it, catch Mod1
Mar 25 21:46:27 <Veggen> elb: I need to map me an alt on the n810 keyboard :)
Mar 25 21:47:11 <elb> yeah, just bind a key to one of the keysyms listed under Mod1 in xmodmap
Mar 25 21:47:42 <elb> you can do that using xmodmap (which is kind of a hack), or you can create an appropriate xkb map
Mar 25 21:48:23 <fysa> WorkingOnWise, you would need to get esd working.
Mar 25 21:48:38 <webustany> Veggen: you want to port emacs on the n810
Mar 25 21:48:39 <webustany> ?
Mar 25 21:48:55 <Veggen> elb: I'm already doing xkb-stuff.
Mar 25 21:49:14 <fysa> http://www.advogato.org/person/pycage/diary.html?start=58
Mar 25 21:49:16 <Veggen> webustany: nope. but already done, I believe?
Mar 25 21:49:28 <fysa> they have an example of going in reverse -- i.e., use N800 as speakers for a desktop computer
Mar 25 21:49:55 <webustany> Veggen: I was kidding... But, really ? I wonder how usable it is
Mar 25 21:50:29 <fysa> to go the other way, you would have to get alsa-esd on the N800 to work I think
Mar 25 21:50:36 <elb> the last one I tried was ... not very
Mar 25 21:50:45 <fysa> koyote, from what I hear, you just plug it in and it comes up.
Mar 25 21:50:55 <fysa> koyote, and why a soldering iron?  you can buy the adapter cable for $4.95 here..
Mar 25 21:51:20 <m-c> I wonder if the FM tuner in the N800 could be used to tune television VHF signals
Mar 25 21:51:30 <Veggen> elb: but what's the usual keysym for alt?
Mar 25 21:51:38 <m-c> hmm - audio or even video
Mar 25 21:51:43 <elb> Alt_L/Alt_R
Mar 25 21:52:07 <Veggen> ah. hmm, ok. lemme try that.
Mar 25 21:52:49 <elb> however, you almost certainly don't actually want alt, but Mod_1
Mar 25 21:53:03 <elb> for which you have to consult xmodmap
Mar 25 21:53:16 <koyote> fysa: i can't find one locally
Mar 25 21:53:35 <koyote> so why not take a spare keyboard and make a cable the length i want?
Mar 25 21:53:43 <koyote> i have plenty of both
Mar 25 21:53:57 <fysa> bummer.  true enough.
Mar 25 21:54:02 <fysa> I heard that Publix carries it.
Mar 25 21:54:04 <koyote> m-c: yes. the lower band, to 76mhz
Mar 25 21:54:24 <m-c> oooh -- neat!
Mar 25 21:54:26 <koyote> an if i ever find that targus frolding usb keyboard i used to have.....
Mar 25 21:55:41 <m-c> do you have any BT keyboard recommendations?
Mar 25 21:56:17 <fysa> Apple Wireless..  bought one for the N800 and liked it enough that I replaced the IBM M-type on my desktop.
Mar 25 21:56:27 <m-c> I was reading on wikipedia on the topic of BT... interesting to see where the logo came from
Mar 25 21:56:36 <m-c> thanks fysa
Mar 25 21:56:41 <koyote> the berkano rune?
Mar 25 21:56:43 <fysa> doesn't fold though
Mar 25 21:56:59 <fysa> but it's tiny and you can find a nice carrying case that fits the keyboard and device
Mar 25 21:57:38 <m-c> I was looking on the web at the leapfrog keyboard - neat - it's used by one hand
Mar 25 21:58:09 <m-c> but it said it required MS or Apple, so I didn't know if it would work here
Mar 25 21:58:55 <elb> it may (foolishly) not produce standard HID keystrokes
Mar 25 22:00:26 <Veggen> elb: why wouldn't I want Alt_L on something and Mod1 to Alt_L?
Mar 25 22:00:35 <m-c> koyote: television stations are broadcasting digital signals these days... wonder if the N800 will ever be able to tune the shows there
Mar 25 22:01:26 <elb> Veggen: you can do that, sure
Mar 25 22:01:43 <elb> (and there's no real downside)
Mar 25 22:02:16 <m-c> ... would need a tuner + MPEG2 decoder in one application
Mar 25 22:05:13 <elb> m-c: the n800 tuner almost certainly doesn't provide the necessary bandwidth
Mar 25 22:05:37 <m-c> elb: huh - never considered the bandwidth on a tuner...
Mar 25 22:06:23 <elb> basically all a tuner *is* is a notch filter of a particular bandwidth and center ;-)
Mar 25 22:06:54 <elb> plus some goop to extract the signal from its carrier and center it somewhere useful
Mar 25 22:07:11 <Veggen> hmm. worked, but keystroke was awkward.
Mar 25 22:07:27 <elb> hmmm notch filter is not the right term, it's the reverse of a notch
Mar 25 22:07:40 <Veggen> think I want ctrl-shift and not fn-shift
Mar 25 22:10:22 <Veggen> eek. that had side effects, fn-shift to Alt_l
Mar 25 22:10:46 <Veggen> suddenly, my bare fn stopped working.
Mar 25 22:10:59 <elb> uh oh ;-)
Mar 25 22:11:13 <elb> I use Fn+shift for ]
Mar 25 22:11:24 <Veggen> and I need an exclamation-mark.anyone
Mar 25 22:11:28 <elb> which is probably a bad binding
Mar 25 22:11:34 <elb> but I need Ctrl-]
Mar 25 22:11:40 <elb> !
Mar 25 22:13:00 <Veggen> thanks :)
Mar 25 22:13:08 <Veggen> my fn key back.
Mar 25 22:14:19 <Veggen> I put { and [ back where the ( is. chr+k for { and chr+shift+k for [
Mar 25 22:14:48 <m-c> http://www.hackerstickers.com/products/frogpad-bluetooth-mini-keyboard.shtml
Mar 25 22:15:40 <pupnik> you know the USA has overthrown the got in somalia?
Mar 25 22:15:52 <pupnik> yeah, they overthrew a stable govt!
Mar 25 22:15:58 <m-c> "the got" ?
Mar 25 22:16:02 <pupnik> the washington post said
Mar 25 22:16:09 <pupnik> there were three al quaeda in somalia
Mar 25 22:16:24 <pupnik> so the cia got the ethopian army to invade
Mar 25 22:16:30 <Veggen> elb: your keystroke is a little awkward on mine, but possible :)
Mar 25 22:16:34 <pupnik> and hundreds of thousands of people have fled!
Mar 25 22:16:37 <pupnik> it's really fun!
Mar 25 22:16:51 <elb> Veggen: where did you put ]?
Mar 25 22:17:19 <Veggen> chr+shift+l
Mar 25 22:17:29 <Veggen> 
Mar 25 22:17:57 <elb> hmmm I didn't know chr could work that way
Mar 25 22:18:02 <elb> is that an additional xkb hack?
Mar 25 22:18:23 <m-c> pupnik: you can find an audience for your discussion in #politics
Mar 25 22:18:32 <Veggen> elb: I took away the popup on chr.
Mar 25 22:18:41 <pupnik> nah
Mar 25 22:18:52 <pupnik> shitloads of people getting killed
Mar 25 22:18:53 <Veggen> elb: maps th keys I need directly instead.
Mar 25 22:19:00 <pupnik> i don't respect borders
Mar 25 22:19:11 <Veggen> there's enough keys to take from :)
Mar 25 22:20:15 * koyote grins
Mar 25 22:20:35 <koyote> let's get into fm versus am, ssb, cw, and phase modulation!
Mar 25 22:22:19 <elb> pupnik: do you have some sort of source for this?
Mar 25 22:22:38 <elb> I'm interested in it, but ... "the US invaded" versus "the Ethiopian army invaded" are two very different things
Mar 25 22:23:34 <elb> that leaves aside calling the Somalian government "stable", of course ;-)
Mar 25 22:23:49 <Veggen> elb: setting COMP to ISO_Level5_Shift and modifier_map Mod3 to ISO_Level5_Shift and you can map keys on chr and chr+shift too. and maybe chr+shift+fn
Mar 25 22:24:26 <pupnik> elb yes it was all usa
Mar 25 22:24:49 <Veggen> see EIGHT_LEVEL-examples in standard xkb map.
Mar 25 22:24:52 <elb> is that a source?
Mar 25 22:25:04 <elb> Veggen: yeah, I'm using some eight-level mappings, but only as a side effect
Mar 25 22:25:14 <pupnik> no it is a challenge
Mar 25 22:25:17 <elb> but my Chr key bound to the menu
Mar 25 22:25:31 <pupnik> i am a qualified commentator
Mar 25 22:25:50 <elb> I see
Mar 25 22:26:02 <elb> Veggen: assume there was a verb in that last sentence ;-)
Mar 25 22:26:36 <Veggen> elb: oh? I don't need a menu key. I bound the original menu key to the left to Ctrl_L instead and had myself an extra ctrl.
Mar 25 22:26:52 <pupnik> elb antiwar.com is the source
Mar 25 22:26:55 <elb> I meant the Chr menu thing
Mar 25 22:26:59 <elb> not the menu menu
Mar 25 22:27:01 <pupnik> listen to the interviews for the past year
Mar 25 22:27:07 <elb> I actually use the menu key pretty often
Mar 25 22:27:09 <pupnik> and then get back to me
Mar 25 22:27:51 <elb> I doubt I could take a year's worth of propaganda in one sitting
Mar 25 22:27:56 <Veggen> elb: yah, I don't :) or I decided to bind it all in xkb instead.
Mar 25 22:28:30 <pupnik> elb did the CIA overthrow the iranian government in 1953?
Mar 25 22:28:56 <elb> I'm sure it did
Mar 25 22:29:05 <elb> there is no world strife but that caused by the US government, of course
Mar 25 22:29:37 <elb> Hitler and Stalin were merely pawns in the US bid for world domination
Mar 25 22:29:41 <pupnik> you dumb fuck, the mainstream news is the propaganda
Mar 25 22:29:49 <KotCzarny> hehe
Mar 25 22:29:49 <pupnik> it is pure lies
Mar 25 22:29:59 <KotCzarny> hitler was a good friend of us
Mar 25 22:30:01 <elb> nice
Mar 25 22:30:16 <KotCzarny> he just wanted to speed up nwo
Mar 25 22:30:20 <KotCzarny> in his own way
Mar 25 22:30:23 * m-c ignores.
Mar 25 22:30:29 <elb> I like how you moved directly to ad hominem without even a single sentence of logical defense
Mar 25 22:30:32 <elb> I think we're done here
Mar 25 22:30:55 <pupnik> i deal in shorthand with shitiots
Mar 25 22:31:07 <pupnik> massive propaganda apparatus
Mar 25 22:31:07 <elb> I see
Mar 25 22:31:08 <KotCzarny> same with mao
Mar 25 22:31:10 <pupnik> elb denies it
Mar 25 22:31:18 <pupnik> shorthand
Mar 25 22:31:18 <elb> what did I deny, exactly?
Mar 25 22:31:21 <elb> help me understand
Mar 25 22:31:32 <pupnik> USA invading somalia
Mar 25 22:31:43 <elb> in fact, I did no such thing
Mar 25 22:31:55 <elb> in actuality, I asked for information on the matter
Mar 25 22:32:21 <elb> but you were too busy being offended a priori to provide useful information, as far as I can tell
Mar 25 22:32:47 <elb> then came the blind name-calling
Mar 25 22:32:54 <elb> so, yeah ... I'm done here
Mar 25 22:33:06 <pupnik> they just bombed somalia
Mar 25 22:33:11 <pupnik> sorry you're uninformed
Mar 25 22:33:31 <KotCzarny> anyone is?
Mar 25 22:33:34 <KotCzarny> hardly
Mar 25 22:33:34 <pupnik> it's just a prod to investigate yourself
Mar 25 22:33:45 <elb> why don't you provide information, instead of spewing vitriol
Mar 25 22:34:17 <pupnik> http://www.google.com/search?q=usa+bombed+somalia&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=Swiftfox:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a
Mar 25 22:34:30 <pupnik> http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-12-24-ethiopia-somalia_x.htm
Mar 25 22:34:37 <pupnik> http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-04-24-somalia_N.htm
Mar 25 22:34:43 <pupnik> http://www.plnewsforum.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/30056/
Mar 25 22:34:51 <pupnik> http://uspolitics.tribe.net/thread/e041da4b-d4a3-49e2-8354-54037f5c758e
Mar 25 22:34:53 <elb> oh, you're talking about YEARS ago
Mar 25 22:34:58 <pupnik> http://en1.chinabroadcast.cn/2947/2008/03/03/1321@329489.htm
Mar 25 22:35:05 <pupnik> http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/archive/index.php/t-98955.html
Mar 25 22:35:13 <pupnik> \http://noisyroom.net/blog/2006/12/25/ethiopian-forces-bomb-somalias-two-main-airports/
Mar 25 22:35:45 <elb> the fact that you barged into #maemo with this information led me to believe you were speaking of a new initiative
Mar 25 22:35:59 <pupnik> http://www.antiwar.com/lind/?articleid=10277
Mar 25 22:36:06 <pupnik> http://www.antiwar.com/bock/b042903.html
Mar 25 22:36:12 <pupnik> http://www.antiwar.com/eland/?articleid=10793
Mar 25 22:36:19 <pupnik> http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=10238
Mar 25 22:36:24 <elb> (sorry guys, I should never have encouraged him)
Mar 25 22:36:26 <pupnik> http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9233
Mar 25 22:36:35 <pupnik> http://www.antiwar.com/orig/baroud.php?articleid=11934
Mar 25 22:36:45 <pupnik> http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=10299
Mar 25 22:36:54 <pupnik> http://www.antiwar.com/rothschild/?articleid=9152
Mar 25 22:37:02 <pupnik> http://www.antiwar.com/blog/category/africa/somalia/
Mar 25 22:37:10 <pupnik> http://www.antiwar.com/orig/aden.php?articleid=12111
Mar 25 22:37:18 <pupnik> http://www.antiwar.com/orig/browne.php?articleid=10793
Mar 25 22:38:47 <pupnik> the USA is engaging in proxy war in somalia
Mar 25 22:39:01 <pupnik> the country had just recovered from decades of civil war
Mar 25 22:39:18 <pupnik> the regional islamists had restored a modicum of peace and stablitiy
Mar 25 22:39:30 <pupnik> and begun to create a new civil society
Mar 25 22:39:36 <lcuk> the us is involved in a lot of things they shouldn't be, but this isn't a political channel
Mar 25 22:39:39 <pupnik> that was not acceptable to the herren in the usa
Mar 25 22:39:53 <pupnik> sorry. hundreds of thousands of dead
Mar 25 22:39:57 <pupnik> my country at fault
Mar 25 22:40:04 <pupnik> thought i should let you know
Mar 25 22:40:10 <pupnik> like. you know
Mar 25 22:40:16 <pupnik> a good opponent to the nazis
Mar 25 22:40:59 <pupnik> it's not politics
Mar 25 22:41:06 <pupnik> just informing of genocide
Mar 25 22:41:12 <pupnik> peace
Mar 25 22:41:15 <Veggen> hmmm. I can't have two modifiers on same key. nuts, where to put alt ?
Mar 25 22:41:30 <elb> Veggen: you can put two modifiers on the same key using xmodmap
Mar 25 22:41:41 <elb> I don't know how to do it in xkb
Mar 25 22:41:47 <Veggen> not in xkb?
Mar 25 22:41:55 <elb> probably, but I don't know how
Mar 25 22:42:14 <Veggen> well. they seem to interfer when I try.
Mar 25 22:43:55 <koyote> huh
Mar 25 22:47:41 <Veggen> elb: an example?
Mar 25 22:47:56 <Veggen> did interfer when I tried.
Mar 25 22:48:03 <elb> for xmodmap?
Mar 25 22:48:09 <Veggen> yah.
Mar 25 22:48:22 <elb> add Alt_L = (keysym)
Mar 25 22:48:25 <elb> all Meta_L = (keysym)
Mar 25 22:49:37 <Veggen> elf: I want Mod1 to shift-ctrl and (obviously) ctrl to a bare ctrl.
Mar 25 22:49:51 <Veggen> can I do that?
Mar 25 22:50:09 <elb> oh, wait ... you're trying to do the opposite of what I just said, then?
Mar 25 22:50:16 <Veggen> yah.
Mar 25 22:50:19 <elb> err, no
Mar 25 22:50:26 * elb is a bit confused
Mar 25 22:50:54 <elb> you can't bind mod1 to other modifiers
Mar 25 22:51:02 <elb> you would have to bind a *keysym* to other modifiers
Mar 25 22:51:11 <elb> keys and modifiers are entirely orthogonal
Mar 25 22:51:17 <Veggen> well, yah.
Mar 25 22:51:41 <elb> and ... I'm not sure if a single key can trigger more than one *modifier* or not
Mar 25 22:51:58 <Veggen> didn't seem like.
Mar 25 22:52:05 <elb> a single keysym can trigger more than one keycode
Mar 25 22:52:16 <elb> err, wait ... a single keycode can trigger more than one keysym
Mar 25 22:52:26 <elb> curse this terminology ;-)
Mar 25 22:52:37 <elb> X keyboard handling is about the most baroque thing I've ever dealt with
Mar 25 22:53:14 <Veggen> I only just started xkb hacking, was used to more xmodmap before, but never got the hang of modifiers.
Mar 25 22:53:33 <elb> ok, so, if you have a particular keysym, you can put it on both Ctrl and Shift
Mar 25 22:54:00 <elb> doing precisely what I said above, with two add lines
Mar 25 22:54:08 <koyote> did we just lose part of the ice sheet?
Mar 25 22:54:38 <Veggen> sure. but that would lose me either ctrl or shift ? :)
Mar 25 22:54:48 <elb> ice sheet?
Mar 25 22:54:55 <Veggen> I'm trying tongain a modifier here.
Mar 25 22:55:03 <Veggen> to gain.
Mar 25 22:55:13 <koyote> elb: big frozen water masses in antartica
Mar 25 22:55:15 <elb> all right, let me look and see what you're trying to do, again :-)
Mar 25 22:55:24 <koyote> don't worry about it. glboal warming is a myth
Mar 25 22:55:26 <elb> koyote: hah I thought you were referencing something to do with maemo
Mar 25 22:55:40 <koyote> no, my wife just sent me a KSR bingo sms
Mar 25 22:56:00 <elb> so you want the keystroke shift+ctrl to produce mod1 instead of shift and control
Mar 25 22:56:13 <elb> I think you'd have to give up another key for that, actually
Mar 25 22:56:50 <Veggen> elb: nuts. maybe I need to give up my precious left ctrl.
Mar 25 22:56:52 <elb> it surprises me if there was global warming-related loss of part of the ice sheet *this* year, in particular, since this year is the coldest worldwide winter on record in half a century
Mar 25 22:56:57 <elb> Veggen: good luck with that
Mar 25 22:57:06 <elb> I think when I looked, the keycode for left and right ctrl was the same
Mar 25 22:57:08 <koyote> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/03/080325-antarctica-photo.html
Mar 25 22:57:22 <Veggen> elb: there is no left ctrl.
Mar 25 22:57:34 <Veggen> I mapped it to the menu key.
Mar 25 22:57:36 <elb> ahh
Mar 25 22:57:54 <Veggen> but I needed a ctrl to be there :)
Mar 25 22:59:21 <elb> huh, that says antarctica saw massive melt this year
Mar 25 22:59:29 <elb> I wonder why that is
Mar 25 22:59:44 <koyote> no idea
Mar 25 22:59:53 <koyote> some gaseuous vertebrate
Mar 25 22:59:57 <koyote> s divine will
Mar 25 23:00:23 <elb> I mean in the context of the fact that this is an anomalously cold year worldwide
Mar 25 23:00:40 <elb> one would have expected massive melt, say, *last* year
Mar 25 23:00:58 <elb> although perhaps the southern summer is not as cold as the northern winter
Mar 25 23:02:09 <elb> "global warming" may be a long-term answer, but it's a stupid rejoinder to short-term questions
Mar 25 23:02:39 <koyote> not entirely
Mar 25 23:03:04 <koyote> after all, when you ask a question likely to be answered by global warming, there's a problem with the question
Mar 25 23:03:18 <koyote> so, why did the shelf collapse? that's not a good question.
Mar 25 23:03:29 <koyote> it's 6 doctoral theses to adequately explain.
Mar 25 23:03:53 <Paavo> the temperatures vary in funny ways. in finland this has been the warmest winter in recorded history
Mar 25 23:04:24 <Paavo> in fact, there _was no winter_ according to the thermal definition
Mar 25 23:04:29 <elb> yes, temperatures over history are almost entirely unpredictable
Mar 25 23:05:15 <Veggen> Paavo: it's actually white and snowy on the ground outside here now. we have a mild coastal clima here on west cost of Norway...
Mar 25 23:06:11 <elb> but nonetheless, I am wondering if the antarctic was freakishly warm this year
Mar 25 23:06:13 <Paavo> and tomorrow it's going to be very white and very snowy here as well. something like 10-20 cm snowfall predicted for tomorrow
Mar 25 23:06:29 <elb> the arctic was not, but I don't know of any reason why the poles should behave alike
Mar 25 23:07:04 <Paavo> this is after seeing green grass and over +5 temperatures in february
Mar 25 23:07:06 <koyote> see, one warm year isn't enough to lose hundreds of square miles of a continent like that
Mar 25 23:07:14 <koyote> it's a lot more chaotic and complicated.
Mar 25 23:07:50 <Paavo> http://outside.hut.fi/year.html <- compare this year with last year
Mar 25 23:08:02 <elb> yes, but the *probability* of a massive collapse is going to be higher in a warm year than a cold year, all other things being equal
Mar 25 23:08:09 <elb> but what I actually asked about was the local ice melt
Mar 25 23:08:13 <elb> not the collapse itself
Mar 25 23:09:25 <elb> floating ice melt will be much more directly related to air and water temperatures
Mar 25 23:09:36 <elb> Paavo: wow
Mar 25 23:12:53 <koyote> maybe i should move to finland
Mar 25 23:13:09 <koyote> at this rate the sacramento valley is going to be deadly
Mar 25 23:13:36 <Paavo> note february 2007 and the -18 C average over 24 hours. that meant that the night was a bit chilly.
Mar 25 23:14:34 <elb> koyote: you have a long way to go before that
Mar 25 23:14:36 <koyote> much colder than the part of iceland i lived in, actually
Mar 25 23:14:46 <elb> we're still several degrees away from the middle ages
Mar 25 23:15:05 <elb> I probably wouldn't sell into this housing market on account of it ;-)
Mar 25 23:15:15 <koyote> elb: oh, i dunno. we've had some pretty amazing heat streaks here. and the lower winter snowpack is really hurting us
Mar 25 23:15:29 <koyote> we could dustbowl and go 45 all summer easily within 5 years
Mar 25 23:16:15 <elb> dustbowl is more likely to be a vegetation destruction problem than a temperature problem, at this point
Mar 25 23:16:22 <elb> (like the western plains)
Mar 25 23:16:26 <koyote> not here.
Mar 25 23:16:31 <koyote> no snowpack, no water.
Mar 25 23:16:53 <koyote> as i said before, it's complicated. you can't two word sound byte this stuff
Mar 25 23:16:56 <elb> was the sacramento valley a dustbowl in the middle ages?
Mar 25 23:17:43 <koyote> no, but it had no heat retention due to several million people and it was completely forested
Mar 25 23:17:57 <koyote> complicated.
Mar 25 23:17:58 <elb> right, vegetation destruction
Mar 25 23:18:05 <elb> I think I already said that ;-)
Mar 25 23:18:15 <koyote> was the sahara BIGGER than it is now in the "middle ages"? no
Mar 25 23:18:41 <koyote> but without the temperature problem, the sacramento valley has been fairly stable
Mar 25 23:19:09 <koyote> we cut the forests down, yes, but not to pave them. we grow a signifigant portion of the world's food here.
Mar 25 23:20:00 <KotCzarny> pf
Mar 25 23:20:09 <elb> yes, that area of the country earned us the Asian name of "rice country"
Mar 25 23:20:18 <KotCzarny> 90% of the population is going to die anyway
Mar 25 23:20:22 <KotCzarny> according to nwo plans
Mar 25 23:20:28 <KotCzarny> so it doesn't matter
Mar 25 23:22:58 <koyote> i have kids. it matters
Mar 25 23:23:08 <KotCzarny> only for you
Mar 25 23:23:22 <KotCzarny> 'single cell doesn't matter in an organism'
Mar 25 23:24:19 <Paavo> oh well, death rate per capita is 1 anyway
Mar 25 23:24:31 <koyote> i don't buy the gould/skinner crap. :)
Mar 25 23:24:44 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 23:24:45 <koyote> we're gods. we should be treated and treat each other as such
Mar 25 23:24:51 <KotCzarny> yup
Mar 25 23:25:03 <KotCzarny> but there are few that are addicted to power
Mar 25 23:25:07 <KotCzarny> and have plans for the rest
Mar 25 23:25:08 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 25 23:30:14 <Kekerot> anyone know where i can get macchanger for os2008
Mar 25 23:30:39 <koyote> macwho?
Mar 25 23:41:22 <Toma-> Is there a replacement grep that can handle -e in the 770 repos?
Mar 26 00:27:45 <koyote> is there anything i actually have to do in 2008 to enable host mode for the usb?
Mar 26 00:27:51 <koyote> to use a keyboard?
Mar 26 00:28:05 <cLin> hrm
Mar 26 00:28:10 <cLin> my ssh on n800 isn't working
Mar 26 00:28:12 <cLin> thats weird
Mar 26 00:28:52 <KotCzarny> ping it
Mar 26 00:29:14 <KotCzarny> koyote: have you switched it to the host mode?
Mar 26 00:29:15 <cLin> i can access it thru my n800 but can't elsewhere
Mar 26 00:29:19 <cLin> i just used it last night too
Mar 26 00:29:20 <cLin> thats weird
Mar 26 00:31:36 <koyote> how do i switch to host mode?
Mar 26 00:34:35 <KotCzarny> koyote: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=HOWTO:_USB_Host_mode_on_the_N800_using_OS_2008
Mar 26 01:01:08 <ttmrichter> Is there some way to bring an N800 up in something other than runlevel 2?  I accidentally borked the runlevel 2 init scripts and can't start the machine.
Mar 26 01:01:20 <KotCzarny> yup
Mar 26 01:01:36 <KotCzarny> use fanoush usb rescue
Mar 26 01:04:27 <ttmrichter> KotCzarny: Is this something I can google quickly?
Mar 26 01:04:49 <KotCzarny> words: fanoush init ?
Mar 26 01:05:08 <KotCzarny> or better
Mar 26 01:05:12 <KotCzarny> fanoush flasher
Mar 26 01:05:27 <ttmrichter> I have to re-flash?  This is what I'm trying to avoid doing.
Mar 26 01:05:39 <KotCzarny> or just: http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#initfs
Mar 26 01:05:52 <KotCzarny> only initfs, not your actual system
Mar 26 01:06:26 <ttmrichter> Interesting.  So I reflash just the initfs and this allows me to enter different runlevels, I'm presuming?
Mar 26 01:06:33 <KotCzarny> hmm
Mar 26 01:06:39 <KotCzarny> runlevels, i don't know
Mar 26 01:06:46 <KotCzarny> but you can telnet into it
Mar 26 01:06:51 <KotCzarny> i think
Mar 26 01:07:06 <KotCzarny> or just go into some kind of 'single' mode
Mar 26 01:07:16 <ttmrichter> Ah, yes.  Just read that.  I can telnet/ssh in.  Which is EXACTLY what I need.  Single mode helps too (that would be runlevel 0).
Mar 26 01:07:31 <KotCzarny> erm, no
Mar 26 01:07:35 <KotCzarny> runlevel 0 is reboot
Mar 26 01:07:36 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 26 01:07:40 <KotCzarny> runlevel 1 is single
Mar 26 01:07:41 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 01:07:45 <ttmrichter> D'oh!  Yeah, my mistake.
Mar 26 01:07:56 <ttmrichter> I'm not used to runlevel-based systems.  :)
Mar 26 01:08:04 <KotCzarny> no problem
Mar 26 01:08:06 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 01:08:07 <ttmrichter> I keep getting the numbers screwed up.
Mar 26 01:08:29 <ttmrichter> I remember runlevel 2 (because it's ubiquitous) and runlevel S (because it's actually mnemonic!).
Mar 26 01:08:37 <KotCzarny> i personally use ramdisk for rescueing on my pcs
Mar 26 01:08:51 <ttmrichter> On my PCs I use liveCDs.
Mar 26 01:08:58 <KotCzarny> something like that
Mar 26 01:09:00 <ttmrichter> Much easier to rescue a PC than an N800.  :)
Mar 26 01:09:06 <KotCzarny> but made by myself
Mar 26 01:09:09 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 01:09:35 <KotCzarny> so it has gcc/distcc/sshd
Mar 26 01:09:41 <KotCzarny> and fits into 20mb
Mar 26 01:09:42 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 01:09:53 <KotCzarny> quite easy way to bootup a cluster
Mar 26 01:09:53 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 26 01:15:46 <scibot> Any idea if there's a way to temporarily disable the backlight from automatically dimming and/or switching off.
Mar 26 01:16:13 <scibot> Having to tap it every minute while I try to draw a photo I have on screen is annoying.
Mar 26 01:16:39 <KotCzarny> scibot: there was a way to add more options for timeout
Mar 26 01:16:42 <KotCzarny> fe. 60 minutes
Mar 26 01:16:43 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 26 01:16:47 <KotCzarny> let me check
Mar 26 01:17:22 <scibot> Thanks. =)
Mar 26 01:17:55 <KotCzarny> gconftool-2 --type "list" --list-type "int" --set "/system/osso/dsm/display/possible_display_dim_tim
Mar 26 01:17:55 <KotCzarny> eouts" "[10,30,60,120,300,600,3600]"
Mar 26 01:17:55 <KotCzarny> gconftool-2 --type "list" --list-type "int" --set "/system/osso/dsm/display/possible_display_blank_t
Mar 26 01:17:55 <KotCzarny> imeouts" "[30,60,120,300,600,3600]"
Mar 26 01:18:03 <KotCzarny> erm
Mar 26 01:18:08 <KotCzarny> got fragmented
Mar 26 01:18:15 <KotCzarny> i hope you will see how to use it
Mar 26 01:18:16 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 01:18:26 <scibot> Yep, thanks again.
Mar 26 01:53:42 <skibur> Do we have rotation on the N800/N810?
Mar 26 01:54:27 <jott> skibur: yes, http://sse2.net/rotate/
Mar 26 01:54:32 <KotCzarny> yup
Mar 26 01:54:35 <KotCzarny> and it rocks
Mar 26 01:54:37 <skibur> cool
Mar 26 01:54:44 <KotCzarny> and you can move menubar
Mar 26 01:54:46 <skibur> xrandr?
Mar 26 01:54:50 <KotCzarny> like in windows
Mar 26 01:54:51 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 01:54:59 <KotCzarny> yup
Mar 26 01:55:03 <skibur> nice
Mar 26 01:55:08 <KotCzarny> very
Mar 26 01:55:13 <KotCzarny> some bugs with programs
Mar 26 01:55:26 <KotCzarny> but you will be only using it with www/ebooks
Mar 26 01:55:33 <KotCzarny> and those work beautifully
Mar 26 01:55:47 <skibur> thanks
Mar 26 01:56:03 <skibur> will need to backup my current OS
Mar 26 01:56:08 <skibur> ;)
Mar 26 01:56:11 <KotCzarny> why?
Mar 26 01:56:12 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 01:56:22 <skibur> hum...
Mar 26 01:56:30 <skibur> checking Jott's site
Mar 26 01:56:33 <jott> it should actually be save
Mar 26 01:56:40 <KotCzarny> 'safe'
Mar 26 01:56:41 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 01:56:43 <KotCzarny> it is
Mar 26 01:56:44 <jott> you just flash the kernel and update xmap
Mar 26 01:56:45 <jott> :)
Mar 26 01:56:46 <jott> it is
Mar 26 01:56:59 <jott> xomap
Mar 26 01:57:40 <jott> still a backup can't be wrong ;)
Mar 26 01:57:46 <KotCzarny> yup
Mar 26 01:58:01 <KotCzarny> but cloning os to mmc is even better option
Mar 26 01:58:01 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 01:58:16 <jott> that's just another word for "backup" :)
Mar 26 01:58:42 <KotCzarny> more
Mar 26 01:58:43 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 01:59:10 <skibur> =O
Mar 26 01:59:17 <jott> no, everything else is less! :)
Mar 26 01:59:17 <skibur> hum...
Mar 26 01:59:32 <skibur> wonder if it will affect KDE
Mar 26 01:59:53 <jott> actually KDE should work fine even with kde xrandr tray thingy i suppose
Mar 26 02:00:55 <Kekerot> do you guys use wayfinder for gps?
Mar 26 02:01:22 <skibur> how can I boot from SD card?
Mar 26 02:01:32 <skibur> I already have the flasher at boot time
Mar 26 02:01:43 <jott> use fanoush initfs
Mar 26 02:01:44 <KotCzarny> skibur: look for a howto
Mar 26 02:01:44 <skibur> what format should the file be on the sd card?
Mar 26 02:02:13 <jott> no file, full / on an ext3 (or similar) partition
Mar 26 02:02:22 <skibur> o ok
Mar 26 02:02:35 <skibur> I used to have to OS
Mar 26 02:02:37 <jott> but you could probably also do some loop back container madness :)
Mar 26 02:02:39 <skibur> two
Mar 26 02:02:50 <skibur> OS2007 and OS2008
Mar 26 02:03:09 <skibur> N800 and SD Card Internal
Mar 26 02:03:17 <jott> Kekerot: http://xkcd.com/399/ <- i use this for gps ;)
Mar 26 02:04:01 <KotCzarny> lol
Mar 26 02:04:51 <Kekerot> thanks jott that seems much cheaper
Mar 26 02:05:37 <skibur> wonder if Nokia will ever add rotation to the upcoming OS2008 update
Mar 26 02:06:17 <jott> skibur: i doubt it.. too much work to make it really clean for to less gain.
Mar 26 02:06:31 <jott> too
Mar 26 02:07:03 <jott> but as long as we can use it, it's fine ;)
Mar 26 02:07:09 <koyote> heh
Mar 26 02:07:13 <koyote> sharp did it
Mar 26 02:07:30 <jott> sharp had qtopia not maemo :P
Mar 26 02:07:34 <skibur> F-it  it works
Mar 26 02:07:37 <skibur> :D
Mar 26 02:10:14 <koyote> jott: point being that very few things people ask for are reinventing the wheel
Mar 26 02:10:55 <koyote> better time might be spent looking at what people have, need, want and designing around that as a new and comprehensive os change instead of dot incrementing
Mar 26 02:10:58 <koyote> *shrug*
Mar 26 02:11:23 <skibur> sorry
Mar 26 02:16:32 <Kekerot> what is the latest macOS you can get running on a tablet with basilisk
Mar 26 02:19:19 <WorkingOnWise> what changes do I need to make to the cloning process if I want to use ext3 on my sd card , when I clone the os to the sd card? I see nothing about ext3, and the ./nupgrade.sh (0-4) fails. the error is this -  Unable to identify target device and partition with a valid linux filesystem (type 83). I partitioned the card with 7.2Gb ext3 partition and .5gb fat32 partition using my laptop. I also tried the .5gb fat 32 first, and s
Mar 26 02:20:27 <koyote> you don't like your sd card?
Mar 26 02:21:42 <WorkingOnWise> what do u mean koyote?
Mar 26 02:25:11 <WorkingOnWise> koyote: what do you mean?
Mar 26 02:25:47 <koyote> ext3 on flash?
Mar 26 02:25:59 <koyote> maximizing writes, minimizes life of card
Mar 26 02:26:06 <KotCzarny> not really
Mar 26 02:26:17 <KotCzarny> only if you enable journal=data
Mar 26 02:26:18 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 02:26:35 <koyote> okay, only if you use ext3 in ext2 mode do you not kill your flash
Mar 26 02:26:41 <KotCzarny> nope
Mar 26 02:26:42 <koyote> phphphphpbbbtt
Mar 26 02:26:42 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 02:27:38 <WorkingOnWise> I am chosing ext3 for the journaling abilities so it wont have to to an fschk acter a crash, or after x number of mounts
Mar 26 02:27:41 <jott> hehe like writing to fats at a fixed location :) .. (hopefully the card is smarter than that ;)
Mar 26 02:28:00 <WorkingOnWise> acter=after
Mar 26 02:29:36 * koyote raises an eyebrow
Mar 26 02:29:53 <koyote> 1: I've lost more data with ext3 than ext2
Mar 26 02:30:25 <koyote> 2: journalling gives you a false sense of security. stuff fails, just because your inodes are safe doesn't mean much in the larger view
Mar 26 02:30:39 <KotCzarny> but still
Mar 26 02:30:54 <KotCzarny> checking 8gb ext2 after battery fail?
Mar 26 02:30:58 <WorkingOnWise> i've never seen a data loss at all on ext2 or 3, except for hardware failures
Mar 26 02:31:01 <KotCzarny> every time?
Mar 26 02:31:28 <koyote> 3: I have worn out flash, and it sucks
Mar 26 02:31:33 <WorkingOnWise> wow...yeah....how long would THAT take?! Didn't even concider that...
Mar 26 02:31:51 <WorkingOnWise> koyote: over what period of time?
Mar 26 02:32:25 <koyote> on the hp200 I think I blew one up in 6 months. lot of weird traffic across that one
Mar 26 02:32:32 <koyote> a couple others in the 18 month range
Mar 26 02:32:49 <KotCzarny> was it ext3?
Mar 26 02:32:50 <WorkingOnWise> what's an hp200?
Mar 26 02:32:53 <jott> while true; do dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/mmc1; done  ;p
Mar 26 02:32:56 <koyote> otoh, I have a few that have lasted several years, but I don't exactly put swap on them :)
Mar 26 02:33:20 <koyote> WorkingOnWise: one had ext3 and jfs at various times, the other 2 were FAT32
Mar 26 02:33:43 <KotCzarny> so it doesn't matter, fat or ext3 from your perspective
Mar 26 02:33:47 <koyote> WorkingOnWise: a PCXT you could hold in your hand
Mar 26 02:33:47 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 02:33:49 <WorkingOnWise> so it doesnt sound like a file system thing...
Mar 26 02:33:54 <koyote> before you were born :)
Mar 26 02:34:07 <KotCzarny> hah, mlc flash?
Mar 26 02:34:12 <koyote> WorkingOnWise: no, but a file system that generates more writes will shorten the life of the card.
Mar 26 02:34:15 <WorkingOnWise> um...not likely koyote
Mar 26 02:34:46 <freelikegnu> why not use blue tooth headphones, then you have real wireless radio :D
Mar 26 02:34:47 <koyote> humor tag, I don't actually expect you are 12
Mar 26 02:35:11 <WorkingOnWise> lol....good....sometimes I still act it tho
Mar 26 02:35:14 <WorkingOnWise> :D
Mar 26 02:35:19 <koyote> *shrug* we've been over this a dozen times on #eeepc and on the eee wiki.
Mar 26 02:35:23 <freelikegnu> oh crap I was way far back in the chat buffer
Mar 26 02:35:32 <koyote> put ext3 and while you are at it a swap partition on there.
Mar 26 02:35:50 <KotCzarny> with some gap between
Mar 26 02:35:58 <KotCzarny> ~10mb
Mar 26 02:36:04 <WorkingOnWise> actually, I want swap on the built in flash I think
Mar 26 02:36:12 <KotCzarny> no you don't.
Mar 26 02:36:17 <WorkingOnWise> y?
Mar 26 02:36:23 <KotCzarny> remember that built in flash is soldered
Mar 26 02:36:35 <KotCzarny> once it's worn out. it's dead.
Mar 26 02:36:37 <jott> is it? :)
Mar 26 02:36:42 <KotCzarny> isn't it?
Mar 26 02:36:43 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 02:36:44 <WorkingOnWise> ah....and if i wear it out I'm buyin a new it
Mar 26 02:36:50 <KotCzarny> lol
Mar 26 02:36:51 <KotCzarny> ok
Mar 26 02:36:53 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 26 02:36:56 <jott> the 2gb in n810? no one opened this thing yet and made photos :P
Mar 26 02:36:57 <KotCzarny> if you put it that way
Mar 26 02:37:05 <KotCzarny> jott: i have n800
Mar 26 02:37:09 <KotCzarny> so don't look at me
Mar 26 02:37:09 <WorkingOnWise> me too
Mar 26 02:37:10 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 02:37:14 <jott> KotCzarny: nothing new to me :)
Mar 26 02:37:26 <KotCzarny> jott: do you have n810?
Mar 26 02:37:27 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 02:37:33 <WorkingOnWise> so...my problem....how to do the clone on an ext3 partition...
Mar 26 02:37:34 <jott> you have 3 guesses ;)
Mar 26 02:37:55 <KotCzarny> jott: can i get 50/50 ?
Mar 26 02:37:56 <KotCzarny> ;)
Mar 26 02:38:03 <WorkingOnWise> i already used 'em
Mar 26 02:38:26 <jott> WorkingOnWise: mount the / partition somewhere and rsync it over
Mar 26 02:38:48 <WorkingOnWise> I can rsync a live os?
Mar 26 02:40:09 <jott> just mount the / partition somewhere else and don't just copy "/" then you'll be pretty safe..
Mar 26 02:40:29 <jott> (you could also rsync / with the right arguments)
Mar 26 02:40:59 <jott> there is some more or less correct wiki entry somewhere :)
Mar 26 02:43:38 <WorkingOnWise> I guess I could mess with it. it's not like I'm gonna hurt the primary OS
Mar 26 02:44:04 <WorkingOnWise> and I do have rsync installed on the tablet
Mar 26 02:46:28 <koyote> forget ext3, use ext2, make it a 2gb parition and leave the other 6 fat and use rsync for backups often
Mar 26 02:46:42 <koyote> :p
Mar 26 02:47:22 <jott> fat is evil :p
Mar 26 02:47:43 <KotCzarny> more like 'dumb'
Mar 26 02:47:44 <KotCzarny> :)
Mar 26 02:47:52 <jott> and evil.. :)
Mar 26 02:48:15 <KotCzarny> don't attribute evil to what can be explained with dumbness
Mar 26 02:48:18 <jott> (more fat32/vfat is evil ;)
Mar 26 02:48:44 <jott> like microsoft patent evil :)
Mar 26 02:58:10 <Kekerot> has anyone tried emulating macOS on nit?
Mar 26 02:58:17 <KotCzarny> fffft
Mar 26 02:58:25 <KotCzarny> no macos on my nokia!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Mar 26 02:59:56 2008