**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 12 02:59:56 2008 Apr 12 03:01:07 re Apr 12 04:11:14 Does anyone use QEMU here ? Apr 12 04:44:48 is the sound quailty via bluetooth pretty crappy compared to wired headphones on the n800? A lot of pitch changes and some popping? Apr 12 04:46:30 WorkingOnWise, it's the profile. Apr 12 04:46:39 It's only 8800Hz and mono. Apr 12 04:47:03 Unless you use A2DP Apr 12 04:47:47 I havent seen anything about a profile...can it be changed? I used a2dp and it isnt any better, just 2 speakers and higher cpu use Apr 12 04:48:08 followed the thread by JohnX Apr 12 06:39:43 about http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/04/11/nokia-n800-emulation/ Few days ago Nokia N800 tablet emulation was released into public. Apr 12 06:39:51 what do you think this means? Apr 12 07:09:02 bye Apr 12 07:15:51 my N810 doesn't boot (the screen shows the Nokia logo, turns off, turns on again and shuts down). does anyone have advice for getting it back up and running? Apr 12 07:16:35 low battery? Apr 12 07:16:50 the battery's full Apr 12 07:17:03 at least it was before I tried turning it on Apr 12 07:18:34 is there anything I can do other than reflashing it? Apr 12 07:19:29 christefano: try removing the power and battery for about 1 minute Apr 12 07:19:52 okay, done Apr 12 07:22:04 is there a button combination to hold down when turning it on again? Apr 12 07:23:11 no, not really , only when you want to flash the device from windows(it is documented but I never really seen any use of it) Apr 12 07:23:22 if you have installed the bootmenu yes :P Apr 12 07:23:34 no, I haven't installed a bootmenu Apr 12 07:24:19 #ruby-lang Apr 12 07:24:56 keesj: it's doing the same thing. I guess I'll reflash it Apr 12 07:27:08 does anyone have GeneralAntilles' instruction on how to flash in OS X? Apr 12 07:29:21 bugger :p Apr 12 07:42:14 ah, I mean johnx Apr 12 07:42:57 http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Flashing_OS2008_With_Mac_OS_X_%28Console%29 Apr 12 10:11:11 hmmf. anyone else has problems with microB seeming to not get past "connecting" when opening a link? Apr 12 10:11:32 happens quite frequently. Apr 12 10:11:41 bleh http://gforge.embedded.ufcg.edu.br/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=82&group_id=51&atid=213 Apr 12 10:12:01 does anyone use the eclipse maemo plugin ? Apr 12 10:15:59 hi Apr 12 10:42:54 Veggen, usually an AP issue. Apr 12 10:44:13 GeneralAntilles, never used Eclipse and the Eclipse maemo plugin, did you ? Apr 12 10:46:31 I don't have a machine on which it'd be very feasible to run the SDK. Apr 12 10:46:40 GA: mh, when I have no problems with for example ssh at the same time? Apr 12 10:47:50 I'm having this problem, where I *think* I've installed everything right, but when trying to build the project, it yells about missing headers files, thus, would seem eclipse doesn't get into scratchbox before launching the Make Apr 12 10:49:39 qwerty12, have you tried hitting it repeatedly with a large stick? Apr 12 10:49:50 No lol Apr 12 10:50:02 Does anyone have a initfs.bootmenu.jffs2 that I can borrow? Apr 12 10:50:20 I must have messed up networking in my initfs and I cannot boot to generate a new one. Apr 12 10:50:45 qwerty12, tell me how to get it and you can have mine :) Apr 12 10:51:01 Do you still have your initfs_flasher folder? :) Apr 12 10:51:40 don't recall having one ? Apr 12 10:52:01 Where would that be? Same directory as where I ran flasher-v3 from ? Or on the IT ? Apr 12 10:52:06 When you flash fanoush's initfs, all the files come with in that folder. Apr 12 10:52:42 Morning, all Apr 12 10:52:52 heh, I only have use the stock .bin, never had any other dirs Apr 12 10:53:31 http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/initfs_flasher.tgz - if someone could download that, cd to the folder and run ./initfs_flash and choose to remove files, add dropbear & ssh and when it says to flash, don't flash it :P and upload me the initfs.bootmenu.jffs2 Apr 12 10:53:37 crashanddie, Ah well, thanks anyway :) Apr 12 10:54:57 What makes me laugh is that all I need to do to get my N800 working is to just vi a file and change 5 letters. I'm reluctant to reflash as I don't have a Backup (stupid me), all my applications and custom settings are on there :( Apr 12 10:55:18 qwerty12, that's on the IT right ? Apr 12 10:55:25 Yes Apr 12 10:55:32 k Apr 12 10:55:36 hang on Apr 12 10:55:53 Thanks! But when it says do you want to flash this image, please press no :) Apr 12 10:57:46 damnit Apr 12 10:57:52 I get "invalid tar magic" :( Apr 12 10:58:06 Must have corrupted on the way, ah well, thanks for trying :) Apr 12 11:01:40 ok, I'm unable to help you Apr 12 11:02:03 untaring on my box then copying to the IT, I get "permission denied" (as root) when trying to exec ./initfs_flash Apr 12 11:02:24 scp'ing the .tgz and then trying to untar it on the IT says "invalid tar magic", again Apr 12 11:02:41 What command are you using? "tar zxvf" works for me Apr 12 11:02:47 Thanks for trying though :) Apr 12 11:02:53 hmm Apr 12 11:03:05 I was using tar -xvf Apr 12 11:03:28 http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/initfs.bootmenu.jffs2 Apr 12 11:03:42 GeneralAntilles, many thanks! :) Apr 12 11:03:46 Sure Apr 12 11:03:46 well Apr 12 11:03:54 I managed to run the script xD Apr 12 11:04:17 Too late? :P :D, thanks for trying :) Apr 12 11:04:52 what does this thing do ? Apr 12 11:05:25 It's the initfs. Apr 12 11:05:41 bootmenu? Lets you boot of memory cards, provided you have a os on there and lets you do network recovery (ssh & telnet) Apr 12 11:05:42 Sort of the intermediate part of the booting process. Apr 12 11:06:00 oh :) Apr 12 11:06:13 so that's the sweet thing you need when you want to run an alternative OS, right :) Apr 12 11:06:25 Right Apr 12 11:06:30 Or boot from SD Apr 12 11:06:43 isn't that the same thing ? Apr 12 11:06:56 Well, you can just boot OS2008 from a card. ;) Apr 12 11:06:58 would be sorta pointless to boot from the SD if it is to boot Maemo Apr 12 11:07:03 Not particularly. Apr 12 11:07:18 It gives you much more room for installing applications Apr 12 11:07:27 yeah... maybe Apr 12 11:07:35 and possibly a mild speed boost (mostly noticeable while booting). Apr 12 11:07:49 or you could just mount an SD card to /usr :-° Apr 12 11:07:51 It also makes a nice bootable backup Apr 12 11:08:05 That's not a particularly stable solution. Apr 12 11:08:21 yeh Apr 12 11:08:30 Too many things to break. Apr 12 11:08:46 "hang on, lemme put my card into your IT... woops, I bricked it :-°" Apr 12 11:09:06 Better to have each bootable install come only in one piece. Apr 12 11:09:12 yeah, maybe Apr 12 11:09:21 No, for true! :P ;) Apr 12 11:09:34 christefano_, how'd the flashing go? Apr 12 11:09:57 128megs isn't a lot though, I'll give you that Apr 12 11:09:57 they could've shipped 512 at least Apr 12 11:10:06 Meh Apr 12 11:10:19 or just put the root on the 2Gig card Apr 12 11:10:26 wouldn't that be possible ? Apr 12 11:10:31 Possible Apr 12 11:10:42 But I wouldn't rank it desirable. Apr 12 11:10:47 why not ? Apr 12 11:10:53 Internal flash isn't replaceable. Apr 12 11:11:06 well the 128megs one isn't either Apr 12 11:11:11 Yes, but it's more durable. Apr 12 11:11:22 is the 2Gig one that bad ? Apr 12 11:11:36 Besides, wanna take a guess how long it would take to load up a 2GB jffs2 volume? :P Apr 12 11:11:51 Not particularly. Apr 12 11:12:00 It's just not designed quite like the internal. Apr 12 11:14:12 On a completely unrelated note, what the hell was Apple thinking having file thumbnail generation pull focus? Apr 12 11:15:03 erhm, the n810 takes minisd cards, and if > 4Gig, they need to be SDHC compatible, right ? Apr 12 11:15:22 They will be SDHC if they're larger than 4GB. Apr 12 11:15:45 There's no such thing as a non-SDHC SD over 4GB. Apr 12 11:16:38 and does SDHC == miniSD ? Apr 12 11:17:02 SDHC is the spec Apr 12 11:17:06 Doesn't really involve formfactor Apr 12 11:17:27 hmm Apr 12 11:17:34 sucks Apr 12 11:18:48 cuz the website I usually buy from has a category "SDHC", but absolutely no information on the size of each (is it regular SD, mini or micro) Apr 12 11:19:32 but those 16Gig ones really do look a lot like regular SD cards :( Apr 12 11:20:13 Micro/Mini 16GB ones aren't out yetyet. Apr 12 11:20:37 well mini ones will never come out Apr 12 11:20:48 Are there any card that is better than others? Apr 12 11:21:03 sure Apr 12 11:21:52 my card Apr 12 11:21:56 is better than yours Apr 12 11:22:08 i didnt mean brands and stuff, are micro-sd eks. better than a sdhc Apr 12 11:22:14 ok, maybe not ;) Apr 12 11:22:55 well, sadly, mini-sd is going to be discontinued Apr 12 11:23:06 so that sucks with about everyone who has an n810 Apr 12 11:23:38 eathprod, SDHC doesn't have anything to do with formfactor. Apr 12 11:23:48 the only thing you'll find now, that's worth something, is going to be microsd, and use it with a micro-to-mini adapter Apr 12 11:24:30 good i ordered micro-sd then ;) Apr 12 11:24:33 Generally speaking, there are two cardtypes on the market right now with any sort of viability (excluding Sony's garbage): SD/SDHC (Micro and fullsize) and CompactFlash Apr 12 11:25:17 compactflash has the big market of cameras, whereas SD has the market on phones (mostly) Apr 12 11:26:02 i dont know much about mem cards, but are there any difference in speed? Apr 12 11:26:03 Phones/PDAs/Navigation equipment/UMPCs/MIDs Apr 12 11:26:14 CompactFlash is faster. Apr 12 11:26:17 But it's also massive. Apr 12 11:26:35 You could make a NIT out of about 6 or 8 CFs. Apr 12 11:26:41 i got a CF card for my axim. sadly though i don't use it anymore - aargh Apr 12 11:27:54 anyone know where I can get a microsd to minisd adapter ? Apr 12 11:28:20 Bundled with most of the MicroSD cards. Apr 12 11:28:50 yeah, excepted the 8Gig I want :( Apr 12 11:29:01 ebay Apr 12 11:30:30 did you guys see the ring that has bluetooth capabilities and 4gigs of storage? Also a microusb input in order to upload shit on it ^^ Apr 12 11:30:52 Gives a whole new meaning to "One ring to pwn them all" Apr 12 11:31:24 well, I'm going to play some b-ball, cheers Apr 12 11:48:48 hi Apr 12 11:49:08 i'm new user of nokia n810 and i have a few question Apr 12 11:49:15 is someone here ? Apr 12 11:53:07 i want to install python2.5, but i can't become root (i don't know the passord). I can see it with an apt-cache search in a term but i can't find it in the "synaptic of maemo :)" Apr 12 11:53:16 i don't understand why Apr 12 11:54:28  Capashen, just install something that depends on it. Apr 12 11:54:45 Canola, for example Apr 12 11:54:54 ok i try Apr 12 11:55:28 Application manager only shows packages in User/ Apr 12 11:55:40 python-runtime was recently moved out of User/ Apr 12 11:55:56 ok Apr 12 11:55:58 But if you install something that depends on it, it'll pull it down. Apr 12 11:56:14 Not a bad idea to install becomeroot or easyroot to make root access easy. Apr 12 11:56:20 does maemo permission works as Ubuntu or debian (su / sudo) ? Apr 12 11:57:00 yes i don't want to be root i just wanted to install python2.5 if it works it's good Apr 12 11:57:37 user doesn't have a password by default Apr 12 11:57:47 so you'd have to add one and add user to sudoers to use sudo. Apr 12 11:58:13 i have to add user in admins group ? Apr 12 11:58:28 Those two packages (they're basically interchangeable) just allow you to get a rootshell through sudo gainroot. Apr 12 11:58:39 I'd just install one of those packages and be done with it. Apr 12 12:02:18 :s now i have to install python-hidondeskop Apr 12 12:02:50 how can i do without searching for an application which use this package ? Apr 12 12:15:15 apt-get install Apr 12 12:15:38 You do have Extras enabled, though, right? Apr 12 12:55:15 is there a way to install and run handy java apps? Apr 12 12:57:32 eichi: Jalimo is your best bet, but is a work-in-progress Apr 12 13:02:45 guys, does anyone know which channel would be best to ask an x11 questions? Apr 12 13:03:00 or do we have any x11 gurus knocking around Apr 12 13:07:43 Guess not Apr 12 13:08:38 lcuk: maybe #xorg or #xorg-devel - but you still could just ask your question, maybe someone in here knows the answer already Apr 12 13:09:03 yer i thought so jott, thx ill look there if i dont get a response to.. Apr 12 13:10:47 i am using x11 as the main event handler and when no events are pending it calls into XNextEvent() which does the idle waiting. however sometimes this idle waiting can be however long. i need but cannot find a way to set a timer of some sort so this call will come back after no more than about 15 seconds. we have tried using signal(SIGALARM) but it causes threading issues. is there an x11 native way to do this? Apr 12 13:12:17 oh jaffa, good to see you here, have you heard from quim yet about going to linuxtag? Apr 12 13:13:20 Nope, but just seen my name on the wiki page Apr 12 13:13:59 yer mine too - that was updated on thursday night i believe :) are you up for going then if possible? Apr 12 13:14:43 lcuk: maybe you could do something like while(XPending(dpy)) { evt = XNextEvent(dpy); } and do some nanosleeps inbetween Apr 12 13:15:08 but thats busy waiting isnt it? how do i "nanosleep" ? Apr 12 13:15:24 http://linux.die.net/man/2/nanosleep Apr 12 13:15:27 lcuk: Hadn't been considering it. Might depend on work commitments around then, also possibly finances Apr 12 13:15:38 lcuk: I've seen references on a quick Google to an "X11 timer" Apr 12 13:16:22 lcuk: basically yes.. maybe there is a better solution Apr 12 13:16:25 ive just been looking through a load of them and i found more "if you are an old timer..." Apr 12 13:16:33 lcuk: http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:bl0jAJFFvn4J:libassa.sourceforge.net/libassa-manual/C/x804.html+x11+timer&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=uk&client=firefox-a#AEN879 Apr 12 13:17:04 lcuk: yeah, I saw those ones too :-) Apr 12 13:17:52 thanks you two, ill take a good careful look in 2 minutes, just gotta dig out an irc convo Apr 12 13:37:41 is there a version of opera available for the n810 ? Apr 12 13:44:30 hiho Apr 12 13:47:04 does anyone of you have a link to a good howto for installing the maemo 4 sdk on gentoo? Apr 12 13:47:19 (i would prefer not to have to use vmware and/or debian based systems...) Apr 12 13:58:56 Ivanovic, not sure - i use the vmware myself - but have a look here, it was for the older sdk, but may point you in the right direction Apr 12 13:58:56 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6707 Apr 12 13:59:36 hmm, found this one already via gentoo Apr 12 13:59:44 s/gentoo/google Apr 12 14:00:11 the problem is that the sunrise overlay is completely outdated, so that i will have to update some of those ebuilds to work for maemo4 Apr 12 14:01:36 have you read up on how the sdk works? ie using the scratchbox environment and then installing the device target within there. might be a first step to see if scratchbox installation can be built on your system Apr 12 14:02:57 The scratchbox ebuilds are dead simple. Apr 12 14:03:15 It is trivial to make some that install the new versions of the packages. Apr 12 14:04:51 i wouldnt know, as i said i went the easy route. if you manage it in a logical manner please post back where you found info, i'm sure someone will appreciate it at some point :) Apr 12 14:05:09 I didn't find any info. Apr 12 14:05:11 I just did it. Apr 12 14:06:24 heh, im finding color overrides user name in the list. derf i thought you were Ivanovic .. Apr 12 14:06:49 (you are both yellow) Apr 12 14:06:56 :) Apr 12 14:07:19 i just got me the overlay and am now editing the builds (that is basically copy&paste/rename work) Apr 12 14:07:26 lets see how good it works... Apr 12 14:08:00 if i manage to make things work in an easy way, i will upload the changed ebuilds (that is this part of the overlay) including a small howto somewhere... Apr 12 14:26:51 WTF?!? Apr 12 14:27:03 why does xorg abort when activating the kdrive useflag... Apr 12 14:27:25 to be more precise: aclocal does not like me anymore when doing so Apr 12 14:32:57 okay, it is just the version of autotools that is broken... Apr 12 14:33:14 lol Apr 12 14:54:34 http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/04/11/nokia-n800-emulation/ Apr 12 14:54:45 somebody test it ? Apr 12 15:06:40 great, i get some bad ass error when executing and of the scratchbox tools... Apr 12 15:06:43 Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed! Apr 12 15:06:46 Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed! Apr 12 15:15:13 Ivanovic: http://poh9.blogspot.com/2008/01/maemo-sdk.html Apr 12 15:15:39 enable COMPAT_VDSO support in your kernel, otherwise it won't work with the ancient scratchbox glib Apr 12 15:15:48 s/glib/glibc/ Apr 12 15:15:48 pH5 meant: enable COMPAT_VDSO support in your kernel, otherwise it won't work with the ancient scratchbox glibc Apr 12 15:15:57 argh, okay Apr 12 15:18:30 IMO it would be nice if this was mentioned in the INSTALL.txt file, thanks for your help Apr 12 15:33:18 thanks for your help, seems to work so far Apr 12 15:33:31 (will "really" test it on my tablet tomorrow...) Apr 12 15:34:06 what i got so far is a simple folder with the overlay for portage, those are the packages that have to be installed to have everything of scratchbox in the correct version Apr 12 15:34:47 with this (and the correct kernel params set) it seems to be possible to simply run the sdk installer script Apr 12 15:38:46 hmm? Apr 12 15:39:15 Gentoo on Maemo? let me have it! Apr 12 15:39:31 Ivanovic: pingy Apr 12 15:39:32 no, the other way around, maemo sdk on gentoo without vmware Apr 12 15:39:39 mhm Apr 12 15:39:54 although I'd love to see Gentoo on ARM Apr 12 15:40:10 uhm, there is a gentoo for arm port... Apr 12 15:40:16 still, gimme the tarball, as I'm having a bad time Apr 12 15:40:25 with vmware image Apr 12 15:40:29 http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-547275-highlight-n810.html Apr 12 15:40:34 or, write a howto Apr 12 15:40:35 :) Apr 12 15:40:48 forums, I should read them more often Apr 12 15:41:29 :) Apr 12 15:41:53 btw. where can I get maemo kernel sources? Apr 12 15:42:01 apt-get source it Apr 12 15:42:06 in their rep, i found them when looking around Apr 12 15:42:11 ah, so simple Apr 12 15:42:29 then I'll build a btrfs module for testing :P Apr 12 15:42:40 ok, guys after installing strange deb i have a problem with uninstalling.. Apr 12 15:42:46 if you get it from browsing the repo rather than apt-get source, then make sure that you apply the patch that comes with it Apr 12 15:43:02 mhm Apr 12 15:43:34 btw, I can only see rx34 kernel Apr 12 15:43:35 i try apt-get update upgrade and dpkg --remove but still have "unable to execute post-removal script: No such file directory.. Apr 12 15:43:41 any clue? Apr 12 15:43:44 AStorm, same thing for N810 Apr 12 15:43:50 mhm Apr 12 15:43:52 hoped so Apr 12 15:43:59 now, pulling Apr 12 15:44:41 jott, jaffa thanks for help earlier, i have implimented a nanosleep approach which works and isnt so sluggish :) Apr 12 15:44:56 AStorm, I like compiling kernels :), my 1st ever kernel compile was for my N800 >.< but I only do it so I can have all the mods that are released Apr 12 15:44:59 btw, have these mmc cards (internal chips and excternal card) any wear levelling? Apr 12 15:45:02 which wlan chip is exactly used (as in "is it supported by the reverse engeneered broadcom driver) Apr 12 15:45:33 what i saw was a broadcom module lying on the flash, so i think it is some broadcom device, right? Apr 12 15:45:41 Ivanovic: no, it isn't Apr 12 15:45:46 Ivanovic: cx33 something? Apr 12 15:45:48 there is no non-binary-module support currently Apr 12 15:45:55 ugh, that is bad Apr 12 15:45:57 it's a prism54/p54umac variant on a SPI bus Apr 12 15:45:59 dragorn: well, no Apr 12 15:46:04 which is slowly getting some kernel support Apr 12 15:46:11 but not, yet, useful support Apr 12 15:46:14 the glue is opened Apr 12 15:46:18 AStorm: which is worthless Apr 12 15:46:30 it supposedly works after hacking Apr 12 15:46:45 and grabbing umac.ko plus firmware Apr 12 15:47:09 Ivanovic: at some point in the future there will probably be a kernel module mainline which works, but don't hold your breath right now. Look on the kernel-wireless mailing list for some info. Apr 12 15:47:10 note "supposedly" Apr 12 15:47:22 AStorm: critical functionality is inside the umac binary which can't be changed Apr 12 15:47:32 I know :) Apr 12 15:47:37 dragorn: thanks for the info Apr 12 15:47:41 the trick is to run the binary Apr 12 15:47:56 yeah, it's ugly Apr 12 15:48:03 which is worthless if the functionality you need to change is blocked by the binary Apr 12 15:48:04 hence, useless Apr 12 15:48:12 not useless Apr 12 15:48:32 I need something working :) Apr 12 15:48:32 is there already a boost package in the repository (as in "plain normal debian package or something like this") or do i have to compile it myself? Apr 12 15:48:55 or a CFS patches backport to 2.6.21 Apr 12 15:49:03 Ivanovic: http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/N810 is johannes' work on the SPI driver but until he figures out how the umac binary sets some registers it's not usable Apr 12 15:49:35 so, who will backport all the scheduler changes? Apr 12 15:49:48 for starters, there are older CFS patches Apr 12 15:50:13 AStorm: why not directly try to get 2.6.25-rc9 working? Apr 12 15:50:16 ;) Apr 12 15:50:41 Ivanovic: what about wifi then? Apr 12 15:50:49 Ivanovic: too many binary-only components Apr 12 15:50:53 and I'd have to get linux-omap tree Apr 12 15:51:05 as only that has dsp support Apr 12 15:51:06 dragorn: what is binary only beside the wlan stuff? Apr 12 15:51:13 camera? Apr 12 15:51:13 bluetooth, too? Apr 12 15:51:22 hi Apr 12 15:51:29 hi lopz Apr 12 15:51:34 bluetooth is supported by omap tree afaicr Apr 12 15:52:02 heya Ivanovic ! Apr 12 15:53:19 dragorn: thanks for the link, at least the crypto modules might come in really handy Apr 12 15:53:39 how much of the crypto stuff is directly done in hardware and how much just goes via the arm cpu? Apr 12 15:53:52 i'd bet all of it goes via the arm Apr 12 15:54:03 i don't know of any crypto hw in those things Apr 12 15:55:28 http://focus.ti.com/graphics/wtbu/blockdiagrams/l4_omap2420.gif Apr 12 15:55:48 regarding this graphics some cryphto stuff (at least AES) should be implemented in hardware Apr 12 15:56:52 let's see what linux-omap tree will tell me about it Apr 12 15:57:13 there is some TI crypto hw driver in the kernel Apr 12 15:59:44 re cam: the cam is just a plain v4l device, right? Apr 12 15:59:55 why are they using proprieary drivers for it?!? Apr 12 15:59:58 Yes, mplayer can use it Apr 12 16:01:26 Ivanovic: It's some canon weirdness Apr 12 16:01:34 ugh Apr 12 16:02:03 hmm, where can I get sources urls for apt-get? Apr 12 16:03:47 okay, the sdk seems to be installed nicely on my gentoo box Apr 12 16:04:39 Ivanovic: howto plz ;) Apr 12 16:05:06 AStorm: tell me your email addy in a query and i will mail you the overlay stuff you need Apr 12 16:05:22 astrallstorm@gmail.com Apr 12 16:05:28 typo Apr 12 16:05:32 astralstorm@gmail.com Apr 12 16:06:41 I wonder about one thing... Apr 12 16:07:09 is there some driver to make a typical ps keyboard of a laptop available over BT? Apr 12 16:07:47 of course, disabling input through it to the laptop Apr 12 16:07:59 (or maybe not, who cares) Apr 12 16:08:54 AStorm: xkbdbthid Apr 12 16:09:28 non-X too? Apr 12 16:15:13 hmmhmm, not in portage - is it a part of some package? Apr 12 16:16:34 Anybody have Diablo on their N800? Apr 12 16:16:48 The new OS? Apr 12 16:18:06 Why Apr 12 16:18:08 is it out already? Apr 12 16:19:29 shackan, no Apr 12 16:19:34 skibur: dunno, though the other say i could've sworn that my tablet felt a bit.... posessed Apr 12 16:19:38 anyone else interested in the "howto setup the maemo 4.0 sdk under gentoo"? Apr 12 16:20:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELG3C2a3rZM&NR=1 Apr 12 16:20:15 listen Apr 12 16:20:55 hum... Apr 12 16:23:23 blah, I hate it when people forget to tell the deps of an app :) Apr 12 16:23:39 AStorm: sent, enjoy Apr 12 16:23:47 xkbdbthid needs openobex Apr 12 16:24:22 ok i'm back Apr 12 16:25:15 so is the guy wrong? Apr 12 16:25:57 It is not out yet. Apr 12 16:26:13 (On devices other than the Wimax thingy) Apr 12 16:26:55 There are people with testing builds around Apr 12 16:27:02 But that's all :P Apr 12 16:27:13 what will be the main differences? Apr 12 16:27:26 Optimized browser, Modest built in Apr 12 16:27:44 And a handful of other stuff Apr 12 16:27:46 Updates without reflashing Apr 12 16:28:20 yay Apr 12 16:28:55 Does it still use a broken package of busybox? Apr 12 16:29:13 (conflict vs coreutils and others) Apr 12 16:30:00 Busybox is always going to conflict with coreutils. Apr 12 16:30:04 :) Apr 12 16:30:54 what backwards combatible with 06, 07? Apr 12 16:33:29 AStorm, you've got me interested actually, does anybody know if anything would break if I installed coreutils on the tablet? I've already reflashed once today >.< Apr 12 16:35:37 apt then tries to remove some fairly vital software Apr 12 16:35:56 because these erroneously dep on busybox Apr 12 16:36:26 I think I know how to keep them both happy, without messing up busybox. brb Apr 12 16:37:16 I'm good at some aspects in linux and suckzors in others. Busybox help messages are one of the s****** I've seen. Apr 12 16:37:54 :P Apr 12 16:38:15 busybox just needs a conflict with coreutils and other stuff removed Apr 12 16:38:35 they don.t actually conflict, just supersede it Apr 12 16:39:17 the only problem there could be is if someone removes coreutils or sed or... after install Apr 12 16:39:25 Which genius at nokia decided they did :P. I'm gonna update my busybox to the ipv6 version before I try this. Apr 12 16:39:33 and doesn't reinstall busybox and others Apr 12 16:40:07 how do I use this xkbd-bthid? Apr 12 16:44:01 I'm getting only messages like "can't get device info: No such device" Apr 12 16:50:43 Hmm, busybox is saying it will be upgraded. Apr 12 16:50:55 Fcuk it, I'ma go for it. Apr 12 16:55:27 does anyone know where i can download pysqlite please ? Apr 12 16:56:07 AStorm, wish me luck, I'm rebooting with my newly installed coreutils. Apr 12 16:56:33 i remember that i have already found it on a website code.google.? but i don't remember where exactly... Apr 12 16:56:45 I really need to disable the manual framebuffer I have in my kernel and use Fanoush's program >.< Apr 12 16:57:10 hm? Apr 12 16:59:18 Hehe, have a output from me :P: http://pastebin.ca/982499 Apr 12 17:03:35 OS2008 works fine with coreutils installed. Apr 12 17:08:09 qwerty12: how do I install it w/o damage to the system? Apr 12 17:08:49 You have a text editor installed? Apr 12 17:08:57 sure, vim Apr 12 17:09:18 You know how to search with it? Apr 12 17:09:22 I don't :P Apr 12 17:09:42 I do Apr 12 17:09:45 use / Apr 12 17:09:50 ah, thanks. Apr 12 17:09:51 then type a regex Apr 12 17:10:06 first, you need to "apt-get install libacl1" Apr 12 17:10:10 mhm Apr 12 17:10:41 ok, installed Apr 12 17:10:54 Now, with vi, open up "/var/lib/dpkg/status" Apr 12 17:11:28 ok Apr 12 17:11:33 next? Apr 12 17:11:51 Search for coreutils, and keep searching until you find it in the Replaces line and Conflicts line. Apr 12 17:12:20 yup Apr 12 17:12:28 I have another idea Apr 12 17:12:42 check the deps of pkgs that dep only on baselayout Apr 12 17:12:49 AStorm: got the mail? Apr 12 17:13:21 wait a while, doing sth else right now Apr 12 17:13:33 AStorm, I have no idea :P. I just removed the word coreutils from the conflict and replaces line, saved it and installed coreutils through dpkg --force-all Apr 12 17:14:56 I have to go now, remove the word coreutils from conflicts and replaces and grab this deb : http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/c/coreutils/coreutils_5.2.1-2osso1_armel.deb and install it through coreutils. Apr 12 17:15:27 that's old coreutils :P Apr 12 17:15:52 It's the one I grabbed :p, use your own armel version then :P Apr 12 17:16:58 ah, it's ok Apr 12 17:17:08 I though it was 6.x Apr 12 17:17:27 the uninstall problem is because of osso-core-busybox mostly Apr 12 17:21:06 I've also modded some apps to dep on busybox | coreutils Apr 12 17:21:47 removed the full conflict line from busybox :) Apr 12 17:22:36 ls (GNU coreutils) 6.9 Apr 12 17:22:38 :) Apr 12 17:23:12 I'll install proper tar, sed and grep too Apr 12 17:24:13 hmm, need better findutils though :P Apr 12 17:25:44 AStorm: so basically replacing busybox with the "real stuff" Apr 12 17:25:47 ;) Apr 12 17:25:52 yup Apr 12 17:26:06 I still want it though Apr 12 17:26:14 for building initfs Apr 12 17:27:51 hmmm Apr 12 17:28:05 tar installer but didn't replace busybox one Apr 12 17:28:12 *installed Apr 12 17:32:10 maybe I should also axe provides of that busybox Apr 12 17:37:37 need to force an overwrite Apr 12 17:37:43 thus use dpkg Apr 12 17:40:52 where are the debs downloaded to? Apr 12 17:41:18 /dev/null Apr 12 17:41:36 hello Apr 12 17:41:49 Proteous: nope Apr 12 17:41:49 hiya Apr 12 17:42:04 /var/cache/apt/archives/ Apr 12 17:43:08 I'm trying to install the scratchbox script from the maemo.org site. I have installed openssh on my N800 and putty on my laptop (running vista) I've logged on to my n800 as root and copied the scripts to /home/user/ but when I try to run the scripts nothing happens. Apr 12 17:43:34 hmmh Apr 12 17:43:35 i'm a linux newb too so I don't understand a lot Apr 12 17:44:21 averagejo: ehm, what do you want to achieve? Apr 12 17:44:21 sudo chmod a+x ./maemo-scratchbox-install_4.0.1.sh does nothing. no errors Apr 12 17:44:29 averagejo: do you want to install the sdk? Apr 12 17:44:34 that is not possible directly in windows Apr 12 17:44:44 I want to install scratchbox and the maemo sdk on my n800 Apr 12 17:44:59 you either need an x86 compatible linux system, or vmware Apr 12 17:45:01 oh using putty to ssh into my tablet Apr 12 17:45:25 scratchbox won't build on maemo Apr 12 17:45:33 ah well there you go :P Apr 12 17:45:37 thanks. Apr 12 17:45:57 use vmware image, it should be foolproof Apr 12 17:46:03 any reccomendateions for os? Apr 12 17:46:14 oh there is an appliance? Apr 12 17:46:19 if you want it directly in your system: linux Apr 12 17:46:20 the vmware has ubuntu Apr 12 17:46:25 yep Apr 12 17:46:35 i just manage to get things into a gentoo system without too many problems Apr 12 17:46:35 sweet. thanks alot! sure I'll be around Apr 12 17:46:55 installing in a debian (or derivate of debian like ubuntu) should be close to a no brainer Apr 12 17:46:57 bal Apr 12 17:47:08 coreutils package is prob. broken Apr 12 17:47:27 Nokia-N810-51-3:/# ls -l Apr 12 17:47:36 Illegal instruction Apr 12 17:47:45 although plain ls works Apr 12 17:47:55 ls -l has a prob :P Apr 12 17:51:04 averagejo: though the best for the beginning is probably to just get the vmware image and use it in vmware player Apr 12 17:51:39 the ubuntu image or is there a specific sdk image? Apr 12 17:52:07 http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ Apr 12 17:52:29 :D Apr 12 17:52:34 much thanks Apr 12 17:52:36 (that is a xubuntu image with all the stuff in it that is needed) Apr 12 17:52:51 plus some other stuff that might be usefull for some users (like eg eclipse) Apr 12 17:54:46 ok, I've also installed util-linux Apr 12 17:56:17 rebooting for test, brb Apr 12 18:00:18 works fine :) Apr 12 18:07:49 hmm, newest modest doesn't want to connect to gmail imap Apr 12 18:08:36 <_V_> re Apr 12 18:08:44 <_V_> any news about ruby maemo ? Apr 12 18:13:59 new libtinymail is broken vs gmail Apr 12 18:16:26 Ivanovic: I hope the instructions will work. Apr 12 18:16:43 AStorm: for me they worked nicely, that is just the way i setup things Apr 12 18:17:09 the problem might be tghat USE=kdrive may disable vital things Apr 12 18:17:19 not just add xephyr Apr 12 18:18:04 AStorm: no idea what it might deactivate Apr 12 18:18:12 AStorm: here it "just works" ;) Apr 12 18:18:21 I'll try it Apr 12 18:18:30 now my tablet is empowered Apr 12 18:18:44 I'm about to add autotools :D Apr 12 18:18:50 which tablet? Apr 12 18:19:02 N810 duh Apr 12 18:19:40 * Ivanovic also got a x60t Apr 12 18:21:07 hehe Apr 12 18:21:19 that one was too expensive for me Apr 12 18:21:42 atm the price is at ~1100€ in germany... Apr 12 18:21:57 (okay, i bought it three month ago for 1300€ :( ) Apr 12 18:22:21 still much more than 400€ Apr 12 18:22:34 that is right Apr 12 18:22:53 but for my 3 year old ibook i also just got 400€ via ebay Apr 12 18:22:59 hi Apr 12 18:23:10 ho Apr 12 18:23:44 ok, now that my devel toolchain is ready, I have to move stuff onto a more spacy partition Apr 12 18:23:53 to internal flash Apr 12 18:24:00 :) Apr 12 18:24:07 I'm trying to use the python bluez module, but the function bluetooth.lookup_name always returns None on OS2008. Is this a known issue? Apr 12 18:25:36 hmm, autoconf2.13 didn't want to install Apr 12 18:27:01 someone mispackaged it Apr 12 18:27:09 touch: cannot touch `/usr/share/man/man1/autoconf.1.gz.dpkg-devert.tmp': No such file or directory Apr 12 18:29:27 the default is 2.13 for some reason :P Apr 12 18:30:57 hmm, matchbgox crashed again Apr 12 18:31:08 it does that every now and then Apr 12 19:25:55 lcuk: no probs - glad you got it working Apr 12 19:26:12 heh Apr 12 19:26:23 i need to increase backlog buffer Apr 12 19:26:27 Hey Guys! Apr 12 19:27:59 i have a question Apr 12 19:28:38 I have a Nokia 770, a usb host cable, and a 2gb rs-mmc card coming- Apr 12 19:28:45 what should I do with them Apr 12 19:28:46 ? Apr 12 19:29:05 stick the rs-mmc card into the usb host cable Apr 12 19:29:12 put them back into a box with my address on them and ample postage and send them to me :) Apr 12 19:29:14 and then plug it into the screen of the 770 Apr 12 19:29:29 LOLWUT? Apr 12 19:30:09 what else do you want us to say? Apr 12 19:30:28 its up to you what you do with them, but usually people plug them in and poke around with them for a while Apr 12 19:30:45 * Navi needs a usb keyboatrd Apr 12 19:30:48 s/t// Apr 12 19:30:49 Navi meant: and hen plug it into the screen of the 770 Apr 12 19:30:55 the hell? Apr 12 19:31:09 :/ Apr 12 19:31:22 actually, i tried using the usb host mode+cable, but i haven't been able to get it to work Apr 12 19:31:25 Navi, you will get there soon Apr 12 19:31:41 running os2007he Apr 12 19:31:45 Navi: get a bt keyboard Apr 12 19:31:47 :P Apr 12 19:31:51 AStorm, no thanks Apr 12 19:31:59 why? Apr 12 19:32:04 too expensive? Apr 12 19:32:18 15USD for a USB keyboard Apr 12 19:32:32 anything else seems like a waste of money Apr 12 19:33:18 lol Apr 12 19:33:28 anyways, can someone offer some help with usb host mode? Apr 12 19:33:34 bt keyboard a waste of money? what a joke Apr 12 19:33:46 Navi: did you have a powered hub? Apr 12 19:33:53 I have one Apr 12 19:34:23 god Apr 12 19:34:40 *good, and used it for testing of host mode? Apr 12 19:35:03 Navi: What device do you have? Apr 12 19:35:19 Some small cheap one Apr 12 19:36:06 AStorm, don't see why it wouldn't work Apr 12 19:36:32 some hubs have problems Apr 12 19:36:41 but a powered one is required Apr 12 19:36:42 um I meant which tablet. Apr 12 19:37:00 N800 Apr 12 19:37:15 should work Apr 12 19:37:28 lucky that is fairly well documented, 770 was as well but I can't seem to find the stuff anymore. Apr 12 19:38:16 N810 works out of box with a tool to switch the mode Apr 12 19:38:28 http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=HOWTO:_USB_Host_mode_on_the_N800_using_OS_2008 is good if you are using 2008 Apr 12 19:38:29 just needs a gender bender :) Apr 12 19:38:50 i have a y cable powered with 5v 1000mah, with a 2gb flash drive in one end and the other plugged into my 770 Apr 12 19:39:10 AStorm, well, it does work Apr 12 19:39:10 nothing happens Apr 12 19:39:21 It can use the same power cable the tablet uses as well Apr 12 19:39:44 hi all Apr 12 19:39:46 whooper: Are you in host mode? Apr 12 19:40:49 yes Apr 12 19:40:55 and rd mode Apr 12 19:41:02 through linux Apr 12 19:41:55 do you need a dmesg output? Apr 12 19:41:56 hmm Apr 12 19:42:10 sure Apr 12 19:42:16 kk, brb Apr 12 19:43:15 what should i look for? Apr 12 19:44:27 could you just paste the whole thing to a paste bin? Apr 12 19:44:43 ???\ Apr 12 19:44:59 ? Apr 12 19:45:34 what's that? Apr 12 19:45:59 nevermind Apr 12 19:46:15 http://rafb.net/paste/ for instance Apr 12 19:46:22 so that you don't flood the channel Apr 12 19:46:40 i want a bluetooth bike wheel rotation sensor, I had a manic gadget lust insident over it a couple of days ago Apr 12 19:49:10 http://pastebin.com/m6ef63ac2 Apr 12 19:49:29 smackpotato: it would also work well in Amsterdam to find back your bike Apr 12 19:49:40 ya Apr 12 19:49:42 thats the output Apr 12 19:52:42 what do you think? Apr 12 19:53:57 http://pastebin.com/m6ef63ac2 Apr 12 19:58:25 ? Apr 12 19:59:18 greetings from an Ubuntu developer who just fell in love with an n800! Apr 12 19:59:25 you guys are the best :) Apr 12 19:59:44 heh Apr 12 20:00:01 silly hacker question, I'd like to associate kmplayer as the default media player for clicking on media files in the web browser.... Apr 12 20:00:02 Welcome! Apr 12 20:00:10 any hints where I can find where that association is made? Apr 12 20:00:56 nope Apr 12 20:01:57 alright, I'll use that as an excuse to start grabbing the SDK and poking around more :) Apr 12 20:03:15 jdong: there is a ogg player that changes the assosiations. I think also services (.desktop files) can register mime types) Apr 12 20:03:25 what do you think? Apr 12 20:03:36 oh I'm an idiot Apr 12 20:03:46 it seems like it uses standard FDO /usr/share/applications/defaults.list Apr 12 20:04:01 wow this thing just grows on me more and more! Apr 12 20:04:22 is it contagious? Apr 12 20:04:29 it most certainly is Apr 12 20:04:42 I haven't done any of the homework I have due in two days since receiving this device Apr 12 20:04:42 :> Apr 12 20:04:49 also there is an mplayer plugin Apr 12 20:06:02 does anyone see anything for my issue? Apr 12 20:06:10 smackpotato: there is? Apr 12 20:06:18 .desktop files tell what kind of mime types the application can handle. The mime types are registered in e.g. /usr/share/mime/application/ogg.xml Apr 12 20:06:30 that frekin physics game i played till my arm was way soree Apr 12 20:08:55 hi there Apr 12 20:10:47 can i talk to somebody about inner work of media player? how it find music on cards? Apr 12 20:10:58 via some daemon? Apr 12 20:11:08 and how can i test it? Apr 12 20:11:14 usually it contact osso-media-server through dbus Apr 12 20:11:29 *contacts Apr 12 20:12:07 meta layer crawler (~/.meta_storage) Apr 12 20:12:26 am i understand it right that maemo music player c lient shoul connect to the same server? Apr 12 20:14:07 kulve: this ~/.meta_storage - should it be text or binary data file? Apr 12 20:14:15 can, but doesn't have to Apr 12 20:14:32 it can just look up the files on its own Apr 12 20:14:41 jdong here is the link to the mplayer plugin Apr 12 20:14:45 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17715 Apr 12 20:16:08 Astorm: i want to know about daemon - in mmpc i see that it should autoconnect to localhost:6600 - but it is not connected and when i press "connect" - nothing happens Apr 12 20:16:37 mmpc needs mpd running Apr 12 20:16:44 hmm Apr 12 20:16:49 and there is some gabage mixed with filenames in ~/.metastorage - is it right? Apr 12 20:16:58 mv of coreutils also fails with invalid insn Apr 12 20:17:12 I need a real working coreutils package Apr 12 20:17:57 there is "ps ax" output here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2965 Apr 12 20:18:36 and there is no mpd runnning: Apr 12 20:18:36 Nokia-N800-51-3:/home/user# ps ax | grep mpd Apr 12 20:18:36 Nokia-N800-51-3:/home/user# Apr 12 20:18:53 ~/.meta_storage is sqlite3 db Apr 12 20:18:54 kulve: okay Apr 12 20:18:59 sol289: you have to execute it on your own Apr 12 20:19:23 Nokia-N800-51-3:/home/user# which mpd Apr 12 20:19:24 Nokia-N800-51-3:/home/user# Apr 12 20:19:26 or add an init script Apr 12 20:19:33 sol289: install it then Apr 12 20:19:40 where from? Apr 12 20:19:53 whouldn't it be in os2008 already? Apr 12 20:20:00 *shouldn't Apr 12 20:20:06 no Apr 12 20:20:36 kulve thanks Apr 12 20:22:14 ok, so who will build working coreutils for me? Apr 12 20:22:31 (before I try to make my own build env) Apr 12 20:22:38 and this meta layer crawler - how can i test that it works fine? my problem is that i have mp3s on card, but media player doesn't see them - but file manager does, and they're playable (by canola and by the medai player itself - if i click on mp3 in file manager) Apr 12 20:23:02 heh.. Apr 12 20:23:12 some people just don't like metalayer-crawl Apr 12 20:23:20 and canola has it's own data crawler Apr 12 20:23:54 yup, that meta crawler is horrid Apr 12 20:24:12 slow and running at inappriopriate moments Apr 12 20:24:14 * KotCzarny lives without metacrawler and is happy Apr 12 20:24:24 I have to disable it too Apr 12 20:24:34 KotCzarny i understand this. is it possible to make meta crawler to work? or how i can use default media player? Apr 12 20:24:41 is moving its init script enough? Apr 12 20:24:52 yup Apr 12 20:25:04 sol289: default media player is osso-media-server Apr 12 20:25:15 plus a frontend Apr 12 20:25:23 and so? Apr 12 20:25:33 you connect to osso-media-server with dbus commands Apr 12 20:25:40 why doesn't it see my music? because of meta crawler? Apr 12 20:25:57 if you disabled that, then yes Apr 12 20:26:34 i didn't disabled it Apr 12 20:26:45 i didn't move any init scripts :) Apr 12 20:27:50 then maybe it just crashed or... Apr 12 20:28:06 or you're tryinhg to play an unknown format Apr 12 20:28:10 Nokia-N800-51-3:/home/user# ps ax | grep craw Apr 12 20:28:10 958 user 16040 SWN /usr/bin/metalayer-crawler -F Apr 12 20:28:30 pgrep is better (but not in busybox) Apr 12 20:28:41 well, all files are playable by media player Apr 12 20:29:03 -sh: psgrep: not found Apr 12 20:29:11 oh, typo Apr 12 20:29:21 -sh: pgrep: not found Apr 12 20:29:45 i'm connected to my n800 via ssh Apr 12 20:30:24 so... this meta-crawler... can i force it to scan my card and how can i see what it does? Apr 12 20:31:28 this card is in external slot? Apr 12 20:32:17 it scans cards on every mount (that is, opening cover is enough usually) Apr 12 20:34:06 yep... i tried it in both, actally, with no result Apr 12 20:36:34 now I have real procps, thus top :) Apr 12 20:36:51 found that MEDIAPATH variable should point meta crawler to variables Apr 12 20:37:00 yup Apr 12 20:37:21 will try it now Apr 12 20:37:29 pgrep is in procps, which conflicts with busybox by default Apr 12 20:37:57 btw, how do I force installation (overwrite) in its dpkg launch using apt-get? Apr 12 20:38:17 I'm not a debian master (yet) Apr 12 20:39:03 rephrased: how do i pass --force overwrite to dpkg launched by apt-get? Apr 12 20:39:25 i should add this variable to /etc/init.d/metalayer-crawler0 script? Apr 12 20:39:42 who knows, I'll check mine Apr 12 20:39:44 and.. Apr 12 20:40:12 is there any console editor in n800?.. :) Apr 12 20:40:18 vi Apr 12 20:40:29 or just install mc Apr 12 20:40:30 :) Apr 12 20:40:41 or pico Apr 12 20:40:42 or nano Apr 12 20:40:44 or anything Apr 12 20:40:45 vim is there too in some repo Apr 12 20:41:11 KotCzarny: maybe you can build and package coreutils for me? Apr 12 20:41:34 astorm: if it builds without corrections then ok Apr 12 20:41:42 it should Apr 12 20:41:50 otherwise i'm in the middle of ff8 Apr 12 20:41:50 :) Apr 12 20:41:54 :) Apr 12 20:42:27 btw, is there a variant of osso-xterm where toolbars stay disabled if disabled? Apr 12 20:42:44 just install aterm Apr 12 20:42:45 ;) Apr 12 20:42:47 no Apr 12 20:42:49 and xvkbd Apr 12 20:42:53 aterm is evil Apr 12 20:42:55 that way you get alt-number Apr 12 20:42:57 and stuff Apr 12 20:42:58 :) Apr 12 20:43:05 and doesn't know unicode Apr 12 20:43:13 vim would be fine :) but there's no vim in there, where can i get it? Apr 12 20:43:20 if you said xfce Terminal or so... Apr 12 20:43:29 sol289: there is, in maemo extras Apr 12 20:43:30 sfce term probably has deps Apr 12 20:43:30 ;) Apr 12 20:43:41 KotCzarny: same as osso-xterm Apr 12 20:43:54 libvte and 2 xfce libs Apr 12 20:44:09 yup Apr 12 20:44:15 still 3 > 0 Apr 12 20:44:16 ;) Apr 12 20:44:18 sol289: use gronmeyer.it too Apr 12 20:44:25 but UTF Apr 12 20:44:33 and libvte is already there Apr 12 20:44:41 maybe there's a version utf-enabled Apr 12 20:44:45 no Apr 12 20:44:55 aterm just can't support it by design Apr 12 20:45:13 hmm Apr 12 20:45:16 it doesn't know multibyte Apr 12 20:45:26 i should build that coreutils with PATH=/opt Apr 12 20:45:29 what do you think? Apr 12 20:45:30 i have this maemo extras: at url http://repository.maemo.org, chinook, free non-free - in there? Apr 12 20:45:43 KotCzarny: I want it in / Apr 12 20:45:56 but you can get some maim brokage Apr 12 20:46:05 I know the risk Apr 12 20:46:11 I already have it here Apr 12 20:46:27 but the 5.2 has invalid insns in some parts Apr 12 20:46:50 you have n8x0 ? Apr 12 20:46:51 at worst, I'll fix it through rescue ssh, thanks to Fanoush Apr 12 20:46:57 n810 Apr 12 20:47:00 k Apr 12 20:47:21 found it via web Apr 12 20:47:39 E: Couldn't find package libattr1-dev Apr 12 20:47:40 heh Apr 12 20:47:45 i love dependency hell Apr 12 20:48:04 it is there Apr 12 20:48:24 at least, should be Apr 12 20:48:31 if not, build one :) Apr 12 20:48:34 not in my scratchbox repos Apr 12 20:48:40 there is vim for os2007 Apr 12 20:48:40 just a bunch of headers Apr 12 20:48:48 sol289: don't know Apr 12 20:49:04 use OS2008 already Apr 12 20:49:41 hmm Apr 12 20:50:17 i'm using 2008 already :) found vim for 2008 Apr 12 20:50:30 libselinux? Apr 12 20:50:32 doh Apr 12 20:50:42 disable selinux please Apr 12 20:50:46 :P Apr 12 20:50:59 we don't have or need it on IT Apr 12 20:54:32 hmm Apr 12 20:54:40 procps package is broken Apr 12 20:54:48 it has this problem: Apr 12 20:55:29 invoke-rc.d: not a symlink: "/etc/rcS.d/S30procps.sh" Apr 12 20:55:41 invoke-rc.d: dangling symlink: "/etc/rcS.d/S30procps.sh" Apr 12 20:55:50 how to fix that? Apr 12 20:56:02 probably bad symlink Apr 12 20:56:06 ls -l /etc/rcS.d/S30procps.sh Apr 12 20:56:12 and: ls -lL /etc/rcS.d/S30procps.sh Apr 12 20:56:19 exists, symlink is correct Apr 12 20:57:50 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 19 2008-04-12 22:34 /etc/rcS.d/S30procps.sh -> ../init.d/procps.sh Apr 12 20:58:10 btw, ls fixed itself... weird Apr 12 20:58:23 maybe the coreutils wanted some lib Apr 12 20:58:47 so i should stop compilation? Apr 12 20:58:48 :) Apr 12 20:59:28 no Apr 12 20:59:39 I'd still like newer coreutils Apr 12 20:59:44 5.2 is ancient Apr 12 21:01:15 my guess is that coreutils used parts of procps Apr 12 21:01:18 :P Apr 12 21:01:32 installing that fixed something Apr 12 21:01:49 make[5]: *** [test-suite.log] Error 1 Apr 12 21:01:58 ignore tests Apr 12 21:01:58 tests fail Apr 12 21:02:06 no, you shouldn't Apr 12 21:02:07 predictable :P Apr 12 21:02:07 :) Apr 12 21:02:21 tests of coreutils fail on Gentoo too Apr 12 21:02:23 so. Apr 12 21:02:26 hehe Apr 12 21:02:27 ok Apr 12 21:02:34 so how do i disable running tests? Apr 12 21:02:34 1497 user RWN 16236 330 93.4 12.7 metalayer-crawl Apr 12 21:02:43 hmm Apr 12 21:02:45 i think it start to crawl :) Apr 12 21:02:54 KotCzarny: probably... Apr 12 21:03:10 some option like --disable-tests? Apr 12 21:03:17 or maybe some apt option Apr 12 21:03:44 I'm not a Debian master, only Gentoo one :P Apr 12 21:04:15 btw, some coreutils tests fail in chroots or fakeroots Apr 12 21:04:17 :P Apr 12 21:04:30 LFS knows about it Apr 12 21:05:24 yohoo! now it see files! Apr 12 21:05:40 use canola instead Apr 12 21:05:42 thanks guys (or girls maybe) :) Apr 12 21:05:45 it's much better Apr 12 21:05:52 nope, i tried Apr 12 21:06:06 i'll try with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck Apr 12 21:06:17 i need fast player, and canola is not fast Apr 12 21:06:17 KotCzarny: that's it Apr 12 21:06:24 hmm? Apr 12 21:06:30 what do you mean? Apr 12 21:06:41 it doesn't use any more cpu Apr 12 21:06:56 and has proper mplayer video playback Apr 12 21:07:03 canola is taking too much to start, then when i delete media files from card it is still in base Apr 12 21:07:11 yup Apr 12 21:07:25 it has 'reindex' option Apr 12 21:07:26 because it doesn't crawl if you don't ask it to Apr 12 21:07:32 ya Apr 12 21:07:47 this option accessible in gui? Apr 12 21:07:50 yes Apr 12 21:07:55 in settings probably Apr 12 21:08:02 it starts fairly slow w/o python-launcher Apr 12 21:08:21 while with it memory use is too high :p Apr 12 21:09:03 for now i'm using mediabox media center, it is simple and fast Apr 12 21:09:27 i use xmms Apr 12 21:09:28 ;) Apr 12 21:09:44 and it's simple and fast Apr 12 21:09:45 (; Apr 12 21:09:46 xmms on n800? Apr 12 21:09:56 yes, also xmms2 is there too Apr 12 21:10:03 though has more deps Apr 12 21:10:31 anyone know how i can fix it? pastebin.ca/982447 Apr 12 21:11:15 reinstall ? Apr 12 21:11:48 i try update upgrade reinstall and all that time i get this same error message.. Apr 12 21:12:04 about post-removal... Apr 12 21:12:42 astorm: http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/dist/ Apr 12 21:13:04 acl and attr you will find in libs Apr 12 21:13:47 hmm Apr 12 21:13:49 or wait Apr 12 21:14:03 i forgot to change the deps line Apr 12 21:14:08 :) Apr 12 21:15:26 termsig: there's canola-cleanup or somthing, maybe it will help your case Apr 12 21:17:24 I do have attr and acl Apr 12 21:17:35 unless you have newer vesions :) Apr 12 21:18:32 KotCzarny: i try canola-cleanup but it's this same and i dont want flash it again.. Apr 12 21:18:56 strange because i dont see canola in my packet manager. Apr 12 21:19:44 another question - can i put my script to menu? Apr 12 21:20:05 KotCzarny: it's libattr1-2.4.16-1 Apr 12 21:20:05 sol289: create scriptname.desktop in proper dir Apr 12 21:20:16 astorm: hmm? Apr 12 21:20:39 and libacl1-2.2.23-1 Apr 12 21:20:59 but what's the question? Apr 12 21:21:10 none Apr 12 21:21:13 :) Apr 12 21:21:23 does your coreutils dep on these, or your? Apr 12 21:21:26 i have reupped coreutils deb Apr 12 21:21:36 without selinux line in deps Apr 12 21:21:40 ok Apr 12 21:21:50 not that it changes much Apr 12 21:22:00 only apt-get won't shout at you every time Apr 12 21:22:01 :) Apr 12 21:22:01 you have newer deps too Apr 12 21:22:04 :) Apr 12 21:22:19 because i had to compile acl and attr packages Apr 12 21:23:29 :P Apr 12 21:25:52 KotCzarny: that server sure is slow Apr 12 21:35:21 astorm: it's my dsl line Apr 12 21:35:22 ;) Apr 12 21:35:31 :P Apr 12 21:36:08 dpkg-divert: Unknown diversion Apr 12 21:36:29 as i said, probably conflict with busybox? Apr 12 21:36:45 no Apr 12 21:36:49 it's not Apr 12 21:36:52 hum Apr 12 21:36:56 can you pastebin.com it? Apr 12 21:37:07 that's the exact message Apr 12 21:37:23 what's before? Apr 12 21:41:59 nothing, except replacing coreutils 5.2.1 Apr 12 21:42:28 thanks everybody and good night :) Apr 12 21:42:41 I'm installing some perl cpan modules for my pastebin script Apr 12 21:43:17 in the worst case just unpack the archive and copy over files you want :) Apr 12 21:43:25 blah Apr 12 21:43:33 that'll break deps :P Apr 12 21:43:52 nope, install 5.2.1 then just replace files Apr 12 21:43:52 I'll have to mangle these too Apr 12 21:43:52 :) Apr 12 21:44:23 I already have 5.2.1 Sherlock :) Apr 12 21:44:59 that's in the case you remove coreutils first ;) Apr 12 21:52:35 heh Apr 12 21:52:54 btw, perl is sure a hog Apr 12 21:52:59 ;) Apr 12 21:53:13 php is even bigger hog Apr 12 21:55:32 it's funny, everything is building fine here Apr 12 21:55:39 just memory is tight Apr 12 21:55:45 yup Apr 12 21:55:53 there shouldn't be a reason not to Apr 12 21:55:54 and it takes a few years Apr 12 21:56:21 i get these warnings: Apr 12 21:56:23 inflate.c:1: warning: target CPU does not support interworking Apr 12 21:56:33 what does that mean? Apr 12 21:56:46 probably some optimization Apr 12 21:57:02 or mixing thumb and normal code Apr 12 21:57:16 yeah, the latter Apr 12 21:57:24 it could skip the warning Apr 12 21:57:35 may break -Werror code Apr 12 21:58:58 it'd be fun to run Gentoo here and see confused looks :P Apr 12 21:59:05 pfft Apr 12 21:59:28 you would need 8gb card for that Apr 12 21:59:28 :) Apr 12 21:59:33 at least :) Apr 12 21:59:47 otherwise it could work Apr 12 22:00:14 wny? Apr 12 22:00:22 I can build cross Apr 12 22:00:30 or in qemu Apr 12 22:00:35 but it won't be the same Apr 12 22:00:36 right? Apr 12 22:00:37 ;) Apr 12 22:00:48 it will, why not? :) Apr 12 22:00:57 and why 8G card? Apr 12 22:00:57 because! Apr 12 22:00:58 :) Apr 12 22:01:09 distfiles over nfs Apr 12 22:01:12 don't mind me, i have never had gentoo Apr 12 22:01:16 :) Apr 12 22:02:13 the hardest part will be kernel and mce (or such) Apr 12 22:02:22 and getting wifi to cooperate Apr 12 22:02:40 you can try reusing nokia's one Apr 12 22:03:50 yeah, but I want the new scheduler Apr 12 22:04:00 gain something, loose something Apr 12 22:04:01 ;) Apr 12 22:04:10 getting iwconfig to work will be hard Apr 12 22:04:17 and wpa_supplicant Apr 12 22:04:24 debian managed it though Apr 12 22:04:28 yup Apr 12 22:04:40 that opensource driver manages it Apr 12 22:05:32 drat, perl gzip/zlib tests take a long time... Apr 12 22:05:42 I hope N won't overheat :P Apr 12 22:06:26 hehe Apr 12 22:06:36 yeah, watchdog killing your build will be fun Apr 12 22:06:37 :) Apr 12 22:07:04 that will make me slightly mad Apr 12 22:07:12 (; Apr 12 22:07:18 although cpan is quite adept at resuming Apr 12 22:08:25 I need LWP here and its gazillion of deps Apr 12 22:08:38 how about building it in scratcbox? Apr 12 22:09:15 nah Apr 12 22:09:31 packaging cpan packages is a bad iedea Apr 12 22:09:36 *idea Apr 12 22:10:10 it's the tests of zlib that take too long Apr 12 22:10:39 disable tests? Apr 12 22:10:39 ;) Apr 12 22:10:43 can't Apr 12 22:10:53 and a bad idea anyway Apr 12 22:10:53 edit makefile Apr 12 22:11:08 you mad? it's automated cpan Apr 12 22:11:47 on-the-fly preg_replacing proxy? Apr 12 22:11:48 ;) Apr 12 22:11:55 lol Apr 12 22:12:01 evil idea Apr 12 22:12:09 could work though Apr 12 22:12:10 :) Apr 12 22:12:45 there's nothing like 10k zip tests :P Apr 12 22:13:01 zipzipzip Apr 12 22:13:08 eating cpu to the max Apr 12 22:13:15 more than compile Apr 12 22:13:28 k, off to ff8 Apr 12 22:13:32 i will finish it this time Apr 12 22:13:34 ;) Apr 12 22:13:36 ARM just isn't prepared for gzip :P Apr 12 22:13:43 bye, have a nice time Apr 12 22:15:30 N810 gets quite warm under the load Apr 12 22:16:04 I would try to keep it out from under any loads you may try to place on top of it Apr 12 22:16:15 especialy loads that might eminate heat Apr 12 22:16:39 it's now at 42.5 °C Apr 12 22:16:48 according to internal-temp Apr 12 22:17:05 not that bad Apr 12 22:17:09 have you considered that maybe it's lying to you? Apr 12 22:17:16 it isn't Apr 12 22:17:27 measured ambient temp. correctly Apr 12 22:17:49 that's just to lul you into a false sense of security Apr 12 22:17:52 and it feels like 40 °C too Apr 12 22:18:00 warm Apr 12 22:19:48 it cools down quickly, btw Apr 12 22:22:52 finally, lwp build finished Apr 12 22:24:10 Hey, im on mystery Apr 12 22:24:17 whoops Apr 12 22:24:24 My it Apr 12 22:25:11 I really wish fonts would be smaller everywhere Apr 12 22:25:35 From xterm to pidgin Apr 12 22:26:53 install nuvoclear theme Apr 12 22:27:03 or just modify existing one in /usr/share/themes Apr 12 22:29:54 yay, it works! Apr 12 22:29:57 http://wklej.org/id/d03eb25afb Apr 12 22:30:19 KotCzarny: the error coreutils 6 produces Apr 12 22:31:20 mikedep333maemo: what is that mystery? Apr 12 22:31:20 Thx Apr 12 22:31:44 Autocomplete did that Apr 12 22:32:07 xterm has configurable font size anyway Apr 12 22:32:22 I have to mangle fontconfig to make dejavu the default Apr 12 22:32:43 or maybe Nokia Sans Cn... I'll see Apr 12 22:33:33 astorm, just edit the theme Apr 12 22:33:34 :) Apr 12 22:33:47 Nah Apr 12 22:33:58 I said system fonts Apr 12 22:34:07 edit fontconfig files Apr 12 22:34:32 12pt version of Echo is nice enough for me Apr 12 22:34:59 have you seen nuvoclear? Apr 12 22:35:01 :) Apr 12 22:36:20 I cant find nuvuclear Apr 12 22:36:32 should be on my server Apr 12 22:36:32 Even on gronmayer Apr 12 22:36:33 :) Apr 12 22:36:41 Url? Apr 12 22:36:48 http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/ Apr 12 22:36:52 *Nuvoclear Apr 12 22:36:54 mydesktop2.png Apr 12 22:37:00 that's how it looks Apr 12 22:37:04 -wallpaper of course Apr 12 22:37:19 blah wallpaper Apr 12 22:37:32 who looks at these anyway Apr 12 22:37:44 wallpaper isn't included in that theme anyway Apr 12 22:37:45 :) Apr 12 22:38:11 astorm: i usually use grey background Apr 12 22:38:27 but for testing wallpapers are useful too Apr 12 22:43:40 That helped, thx Apr 12 22:44:06 lol Apr 12 22:45:32 KotCzarny: how did you move xmms window? Apr 12 22:45:58 the same as in usual linux Apr 12 22:46:12 using topbar Apr 12 22:46:18 lol Apr 12 22:46:26 or with easymove enabled with any point Apr 12 22:46:27 and it worked despite matchbox? Apr 12 22:46:32 yes Apr 12 22:46:36 nice Apr 12 22:46:56 Now I want to replace matchbox with awesome or dwm Apr 12 22:47:07 i would like fluxbox Apr 12 22:47:08 ;) Apr 12 22:47:12 plus some menu generator from .desktop files Apr 12 22:47:16 but too many things depend on matchbox Apr 12 22:47:22 flux isn't nice enough Apr 12 22:47:28 nah Apr 12 22:47:29 for me it's enough Apr 12 22:47:36 i'm a minimalist Apr 12 22:47:44 you can add flux Apr 12 22:47:52 w/o removing matchbox Apr 12 22:48:02 the tray is standard xembed btw Apr 12 22:48:44 I'd love a WM with window sash splits Apr 12 22:48:54 i'm off Apr 12 22:48:57 ff8 await Apr 12 22:48:58 you know, like ion3 Apr 12 22:48:58 s Apr 12 22:48:59 :) Apr 12 22:49:03 bye then Apr 12 22:49:12 Apr 12 22:57:06 I need some accessx permanent stickykeys toggle :) Apr 12 23:22:13 KotCzarny, fluxbox ? Apr 12 23:22:24 KotCzarny, always having to right click for a menu ? Apr 12 23:22:39 you can use left mouse Apr 12 23:22:44 it's in the config Apr 12 23:22:45 erhm Apr 12 23:23:08 or you can just install some 'desktop' type app Apr 12 23:27:13 I'd love sawfish plus some addons Apr 12 23:27:29 oooh, and screenlets Apr 12 23:27:51 we have Python already Apr 12 23:34:31 Anyone ported ruby to the maemo platform ? Apr 12 23:34:35 we need vimperator for Microb :) Apr 12 23:34:45 crashanddie, alterego. Apr 12 23:34:50 I heard someone tried Apr 12 23:34:54 google for "ruby maemo" Apr 12 23:35:08 it is done, I do not tried it, but there are people using it Apr 12 23:35:21 even hildon bindings are provided Apr 12 23:35:32 we also need lighttpd for Maemo Apr 12 23:35:58 and Hildon to stop acting retarded and just use AccessX Apr 12 23:36:29 what do *you* need lighthttpd for AStorm Apr 12 23:36:37 http://zedstar.org/blog/2008/03/02/packaging-lighttpd-for-maemo-the-quick-way/ Apr 12 23:36:43 thttpd is also available. Apr 12 23:36:46 to send files to people more easily Apr 12 23:37:07 and to test my web devel Apr 12 23:37:11 :) Apr 12 23:38:00 Easily huh Apr 12 23:38:19 What are you going to do behind a wifi firewall that blocks http to the device Apr 12 23:38:45 nothing Apr 12 23:38:48 Http isn't designed for 'sending files' to people Apr 12 23:38:53 I know Apr 12 23:39:10 the main thing is running a devel webserver Apr 12 23:39:31 with random combo of mysql, php, python and faatcgi Apr 12 23:39:48 yes, there is mysql available already Apr 12 23:40:02 GeneralAntilles, funny we talked about having a bigger root partition on another card earlier today Apr 12 23:40:18 99% / Apr 12 23:40:22 :( Apr 12 23:40:26 Hehe Apr 12 23:40:31 OS2008 to the card! Apr 12 23:40:36 yeah Apr 12 23:40:38 I think I'll do that Apr 12 23:40:43 * GeneralAntilles boots off a 2gb partition. Apr 12 23:40:51 OS2008 to the internal 2G flash :D Apr 12 23:40:55 though, I would've loved to wait till the 16Gig microsd cards come out Apr 12 23:40:56 yup Apr 12 23:41:23 I prefer to have the card slot free Apr 12 23:41:24 what's the upper limit on microsd? Apr 12 23:41:29 none Apr 12 23:41:30 I would love to wait till cookies magicly appeared in my kitchen Apr 12 23:41:35 physical limit Apr 12 23:41:42 this chinese tea tastes like fish Apr 12 23:41:45 2048GB Apr 12 23:41:59 and how big is a microsd chip ? Apr 12 23:41:59 cool Apr 12 23:42:01 pupnik bought fish tea? Apr 12 23:42:06 lol, so there is one? Apr 12 23:42:23 AStorm, I think that's the theoretical limit Apr 12 23:42:26 Over 2048GB would require a hardware change. Apr 12 23:42:31 Currently the spec says "32GB" Apr 12 23:42:34 hehehe Apr 12 23:42:45 I want a card that large Apr 12 23:42:55 and not costing a fortune Apr 12 23:43:02 also, resilient enough Apr 12 23:43:12 2tB on a quarter inch card Apr 12 23:43:22 Other than the spec saying 32GB, there's no real limit there. Apr 12 23:43:50 crashanddie, remember when 1GB or a 3.5" drive was outrageous? :P Apr 12 23:43:50 I guess I'll order 2 8gig cards Apr 12 23:44:01 GeneralAntilles, yeah, good ol' times Apr 12 23:44:23 I have one 8G SanDisk in Apr 12 23:44:23 I remember at one time, I had bought a 10Gig drive maybe a year before, I go to the store, because I needed more storage Apr 12 23:44:38 and see 100G? Apr 12 23:44:50 I'm using a 16gb adata sd in mine Apr 12 23:44:56 "Yeah Hi, I'd like a hard drive, nothing fancy, 4, 6, or 10 Gig max" "I'm sorry man, we don't do < 10gig drives anymore, we only sell 20 and 30 gig now" Apr 12 23:45:03 I can't find a way to fill my 160G disk :P Apr 12 23:45:39 (too slow connection to pirate HD movies) Apr 12 23:45:40 I still have a 600 megs hard drive nailed to my wall ^^ Apr 12 23:45:48 I think its easy to thrash the adata card, I had to send one back after a weed Apr 12 23:46:02 after a weed what? Apr 12 23:46:04 I still have 1.4G drive working :P Apr 12 23:46:08 AStorm, I got Die Hard 4 in 36 hours ^^ Apr 12 23:46:10 er after a week Apr 12 23:46:29 AStorm, in full HD, that is Apr 12 23:46:57 I've got a Performa with 50MB internal and a 75MB SCSI. Apr 12 23:47:00 ;( Apr 12 23:47:05 I think I disconnected the usb before umounting, after that I could not even fix with fdisk Apr 12 23:47:09 Now I have to find a way to get the PS3 to play it, cuz I don't have no 12Gig dvds :( Apr 12 23:47:09 I'm in a backwards country Apr 12 23:47:28 only barely fit FCC broadband specs Apr 12 23:47:36 2M/384k Apr 12 23:47:38 GeneralAntilles, I still have a working Amstrad CPC :P Apr 12 23:47:50 AStorm, oh wow Apr 12 23:48:00 AStorm, 100Mbit downlink, 50Mbit uplink :P Apr 12 23:48:03 the 2gb sandisk I have recovers much better from such blunders Apr 12 23:48:04 Could be worse, AStorm. Apr 12 23:48:27 I've got a friend in Alaska with 512/128 Apr 12 23:48:32 GeneralAntilles: sure,it is, at my other home I have 512k/256k Apr 12 23:48:45 GeneralAntilles: you said something? Apr 12 23:49:10 My neighbor still has ISDN Apr 12 23:49:15 the only worse possible is gprs/edge and dial up now Apr 12 23:49:35 you guys crack me up Apr 12 23:49:36 oh, and ISDN too :P Apr 12 23:49:47 * GeneralAntilles glues elb back together. Apr 12 23:50:03 quite the techno-rift when you compare my internet connection and his :P Apr 12 23:50:26 100/50 is mildly excessive. Apr 12 23:50:37 buy me a T1 Apr 12 23:50:46 T1 sucks Apr 12 23:50:52 I coukld use 10 Mbit symmetric Apr 12 23:51:46 here it'd cost somewhere close to 500€ monthly Apr 12 23:52:12 GeneralAntilles, might be excessive, but I don't pay anything more than any other DSL user here, plus I get 300 channels in HD (provided they do HD), and can watch 4 different feeds at one given time Apr 12 23:52:17 or more, depending on cable length Apr 12 23:52:22 <_< Apr 12 23:52:23 AStorm, lol... Apr 12 23:53:00 AStorm, I pay 30euro per month for being connected with fiber optics ;) Apr 12 23:53:03 fun part is that cable with dyn ip at 40/4 costs like 80 Apr 12 23:53:27 crashanddie: did I mention a backwards country? Apr 12 23:53:40 AStorm, yeah, I think you did :) What country would that be ? Apr 12 23:53:49 Poland Apr 12 23:53:54 right Apr 12 23:54:41 hey, look at the bright side, there's polish people in the whole world ! You always have friends, no matter where you go ;) Apr 12 23:54:43 on the Internet since 1993® Apr 12 23:55:10 The country *I* live in, on the other hand Apr 12 23:56:18 HSDPA 2M plan with 5G limit costs 30€ or so Apr 12 23:57:12 that's just retarded Apr 12 23:57:46 damnit Apr 12 23:58:05 I wish Cannonical allowed to pre-order the CDs for Hardy Apr 12 23:58:26 AStorm: what provider, country? Apr 12 23:58:37 pupnik_: Poland, Orange Apr 12 23:58:43 ty Apr 12 23:58:49 gah Apr 12 23:58:53 there was a great example of what's worse than slow :-P Apr 12 23:58:55 i may drop my dsl Apr 12 23:58:59 they have the best HSDPA range Apr 12 23:59:16 most large cities are covered Apr 12 23:59:43 other providers almost don't have hsdpa Apr 13 00:00:28 I think a lot of providers are investing in a technology (hsdpa and related) that is in fact born dead Apr 13 00:01:06 wow with HSUPA i could upload with 1.45 MBit/s Apr 13 00:01:16 lol Apr 13 00:01:29 pupnik_: you wish Apr 13 00:01:42 more like 512k with current tech Apr 13 00:01:47 that's what vodaphone is promising Apr 13 00:02:26 Jesus 3: The return, "The Tech Christ is back, watch him now in the last hSUPPA" Apr 13 00:02:29 sorry i don't know anything about this, so ok 512k Apr 13 00:03:09 anyway, I'm off Apr 13 00:03:10 that's 3.5M/768k Apr 13 00:03:11 cheers everyone Apr 13 00:03:12 or so Apr 13 00:03:17 bye Apr 13 00:03:29 AStorm, don't worry, you'll have a decent internet connection, some day ;) Apr 13 00:03:51 maybe Apr 13 00:04:13 the day where rest of the world will have free IPv6 Apr 13 00:04:27 at Internet3 speeds Apr 13 00:04:44 haha, IPv6 Apr 13 00:04:48 I'm laughing again Apr 13 00:05:02 heh Apr 13 00:05:15 AStorm, I have free IPv6, but honestly, I couldn't care less Apr 13 00:05:20 internet3? Apr 13 00:05:31 * KotCzarny is still on internet1.. Apr 13 00:05:31 KotCzarny: google it Apr 13 00:05:42 KotCzarny, some weird name given to new gen speeds Apr 13 00:05:44 some speeds of 10Gbit Apr 13 00:05:48 hehe.. marketing Apr 13 00:06:00 it's the same ol' tcp/ip Apr 13 00:06:00 ;) Apr 13 00:06:03 no Apr 13 00:06:08 yeah.. just kidding Apr 13 00:06:13 it's not IP anymore Apr 13 00:06:20 pity Apr 13 00:06:25 tcp/ip was stable Apr 13 00:06:26 :) Apr 13 00:06:32 although it does simulate it Apr 13 00:06:47 legacy etc. Apr 13 00:06:57 i might prefer umts-surfbox w/hsdpa sitting on tablet usb port Apr 13 00:19:49 btw, is there any news on getting packet injection to work on the n810 ? Or is that just a definite NO ? Apr 13 00:20:04 crashanddie, re-write the drivers. :P Apr 13 00:20:18 GeneralAntilles, heh, yeah Apr 13 00:20:19 Actually, somebody has been working on open source drivers. Apr 13 00:20:26 Not sure what state they're in, though. Apr 13 00:20:54 do you know people who have used usb wlan adapters? Apr 13 00:21:11 Yes, lots. :P Apr 13 00:21:35 My grandmother uses one, in fact. Apr 13 00:21:35 there are some nice ones with ext. antennae Apr 13 00:21:42 well with the tablets Apr 13 00:21:51 Hehe Apr 13 00:21:54 That, no. :P Apr 13 00:22:10 looking at hsdpa modems and kernel modules Apr 13 00:22:20 pupnik, there aren't a lot of USB wlan adapters that are that good in fact (not for packet injection anyhoo) Apr 13 00:22:34 I'd go the wifi/HSDPA router route. Apr 13 00:22:47 one does need to research sure Apr 13 00:22:49 but yeah, having the integrated wifi adapter for listening, and another for packet injection would be a dream come true, I'll admit Apr 13 00:25:02 crashanddie: usb wifi Apr 13 00:25:03 :) Apr 13 00:25:14 ah, sorry Apr 13 00:25:19 KotCzarny, like I said, not that many good cards around Apr 13 00:25:19 backlog lag Apr 13 00:25:33 it only takes one good card Apr 13 00:25:39 :) Apr 13 00:26:47 what would one do with packet injection? Apr 13 00:27:27 elb, crack a wep key in less than 2 minutes? Apr 13 00:28:04 is it... legit? Apr 13 00:28:05 ;) Apr 13 00:28:11 sure Apr 13 00:28:13 oh Apr 13 00:28:17 :) Apr 13 00:28:18 as long as it's your wep key ;) Apr 13 00:28:21 not in the US Apr 13 00:28:24 ha Apr 13 00:28:30 DMCA fwit Apr 13 00:28:30 astorm: i'm just kidding Apr 13 00:28:31 :) Apr 13 00:28:37 not in Germany :;D Apr 13 00:28:49 oh my, four eyes Apr 13 00:28:52 so, nothing in day-to-day operation? Apr 13 00:28:55 AStorm, you're still allowed to audit your network security ;) Apr 13 00:29:14 not in germany Apr 13 00:29:19 elb, i've been using my laptop for the past 2 years for cracking wep keys all around, whenever I needed internet access Apr 13 00:29:42 Until I got my 3G unlimited plan, provided by the company, of course Apr 13 00:31:05 crashanddie: "Three"? Apr 13 00:31:35 termsig, eh ? Apr 13 01:27:37 anybody built rt73 drivers for os2008? Apr 13 01:29:49 pupnik, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-13458.html ? Apr 13 01:30:08 wee Apr 13 01:30:50 hazzor rt73 usb lying around :) Apr 13 01:31:49 http://nitapps.com/ neat haxorish stuff! Apr 13 01:40:15 GeneralAntilles: wouldn't it be neat if we had an app/daemon for the NITs that detected a nearby NIT and would announce itself to it? (bluetooth perhaps) Apr 13 01:40:42 set up a low-priveledged mesh-type network Apr 13 01:40:44 Hehe Apr 13 01:40:47 Never get used. :P Apr 13 01:40:49 But, yeah. Apr 13 01:40:49 i wonder if the OLPC tech could be abused to that Apr 13 01:41:01 well my two tablets are sitting here and they don't know about each other Apr 13 01:41:15 until i put em on the net of course Apr 13 01:41:21 and at linuxtag there will be alot of nits ;) Apr 13 01:41:48 morning jott Apr 13 01:41:58 heyho Apr 13 01:42:06 who you callin a 'ho? Apr 13 01:42:12 :P Apr 13 01:42:16 OLPC has additional hardware involvement, no? Apr 13 01:42:19 the channel :) Apr 13 01:42:30 Bluetooth would be a good way to detect proximity. Apr 13 01:43:01 yeah i don't know much about olpc Apr 13 01:43:10 but it would be neat if tablets could also join a OLPC mesh Apr 13 01:43:35 and maybe add a bluetooth low-level layer to it Apr 13 01:44:21 GeneralAntilles: the tablet can communicate with more than one device via bluetooth? e.g. a2dp and bluetooth keybaord at once? Apr 13 01:44:26 "The Mesh Routing Protocol used in the OLPC laptop (OLPC-Mesh) is based on the 802.11s standard being developed by the 802.11 Task Group S" Apr 13 01:44:33 Yeah, that wouldn't be an issue. Apr 13 01:44:37 ah Apr 13 01:45:00 maybe we could do something more primitive just to bootstrap the interest in this Apr 13 01:45:16 A simple proximity alert might be interesting. Apr 13 01:45:26 i guess using bluetooth would be the right approach for a quick hack ;) Apr 13 01:45:28 With a little bit of user info. Apr 13 01:45:42 didnt a recent news item from the bluetooth SIG talk about using bluetooth and wifi together? as in, bluetooth for initial pairing and setup, wifi for the heavy lifting ;) Apr 13 01:46:11 there's a name for that sort of setup Apr 13 01:46:16 (I don't remember what it is) Apr 13 01:46:20 but yeah, it's been discussed Apr 13 01:46:29 bittorrent tracker communication via bluetooth ;) Apr 13 01:46:37 I don't really see what the point is, myself Apr 13 01:47:20 imo bluetooth security is better implemented then wifi security... Apr 13 01:47:26 hah Apr 13 01:47:32 so anything that wifi can learn from bluetooth is a good thing ;) Apr 13 01:47:42 maybe just an easy shared directory via bluetooth, or a net level link for wireless gaming Apr 13 01:47:44 I'd be curious to see where that opinion came from Apr 13 01:47:50 bluetooth is pretty crap from beginning to end Apr 13 01:48:02 elb: from the bluetooth working group Apr 13 01:48:07 ;> Apr 13 01:48:22 it was obviously engineered by bell-heads who had never seen a decent network Apr 13 01:48:53 ericsson people iirc... Apr 13 01:49:29 what's the data xfer rate on normal type bluetooth? Apr 13 01:50:19 there are like a zillion differnet modes Apr 13 01:50:31 bluetooth 1.x can push almost a megabit one way, but the return is a goat path Apr 13 01:50:52 depends. if both devices are 2.x with edr support, it should clock in around 3Mbit/s on a good day ;) Apr 13 01:51:01 bluetooth 2.0 is like twice as fast or more Apr 13 01:51:37 but that can be messed up depending on what other devices are on the "network" Apr 13 01:51:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth <- cant speak for the reliability of the info but... Apr 13 01:51:46 (sort of like USB) Apr 13 01:52:45 anyways, my reason for stating that bluetooth is more secure is based on how easy it is to get security in use rather then the strength of said security on paper... Apr 13 01:53:11 getting working secure wifi seems nuts on comparison... Apr 13 01:53:33 oh, sure, it's easy, it's just crap Apr 13 01:53:50 (that leaves aside even the '0000' problem) Apr 13 01:54:04 thinking that way m$ windows has better security than linux Apr 13 01:54:05 etc. Apr 13 01:54:06 :> Apr 13 01:54:16 working wifi is much better now than it was a few years ago, things mostly Just Work with newer devices Apr 13 01:54:56 that said ... looking to your NIC for security isn't the best plan people have ever had ;-) Apr 13 01:55:08 as long as the default wpa key is not generated from the mac ... Apr 13 01:55:27 defaults are evil Apr 13 01:55:39 http://triptico.com/software/bluetooth.html Apr 13 01:55:47 http://www.holtmann.org/linux/bluetooth/ Apr 13 01:56:35 no time to look into this :/ Apr 13 01:57:13 linux and bluetooth is a right mess Apr 13 01:57:35 just getting two machines *paired* is a PITA Apr 13 01:57:43 much less passing packets ;-) Apr 13 01:58:07 never had actually problems with it.. Apr 13 01:58:13 nor have i Apr 13 01:59:08 KotCzarny: im not sure i follow you about windows being more secure then linux when using my comparison of wifi and bluetooth security... Apr 13 01:59:33 still, i guess it could depend on what windows version one is talking about ;) Apr 13 01:59:39 settings things easier is not the same as more secure Apr 13 01:59:43 but it's like so much stuff.. for some it works and for some it fails (at least on the first try)... Apr 13 02:00:24 KotCzarny: maybe so, but getting wifi security going is downright silly... Apr 13 02:00:37 it all depends on the setup Apr 13 02:00:42 I've never had problems pairing a device and a computer Apr 13 02:00:44 one can run without wep/wpa Apr 13 02:00:47 but pairing linux to linux has given me trouble Apr 13 02:01:02 if there's right vpn or only ssh access to the outside world Apr 13 02:01:05 success depends rather heavily on the various versions of your softwares Apr 13 02:01:07 i have my N800 paried to my linux desktop right now ;) Apr 13 02:02:47 t_s_o: seems like a real alternative to wlan for short distance Apr 13 02:03:32 pupnik: i use it far more then wlan to transfer files between my computer and my n800... Apr 13 02:03:38 if the toilet is out of bluetooth range its not an option ;) Apr 13 02:03:54 that might save you some battery power Apr 13 02:04:07 provided you're not transferring large amounts of data Apr 13 02:04:34 (it might either way) Apr 13 02:04:47 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15263&highlight=bluetooth+network some chat about mesh networks and tablets Apr 13 02:05:10 elb: even more so if one have trouble with power saving on ones wlan... Apr 13 02:08:39 "In 2007 Gartner estimates that 264 million PCs were sold, nearly all of which contain an x86 processor. In the same year almost 3 billion ARM processors were sold." Wooohoooo Apr 13 02:08:41 btw, the only time i have bumped into the 0000 thing with bluetooth is for my headset Apr 13 02:08:50 hrm Apr 13 02:09:27 Hooray for refrigerators and digital razors, pupnik? :D Apr 13 02:09:55 * pupnik just likes arm Apr 13 02:09:58 "Is that an ARM in your pocket?" Apr 13 02:10:31 i love to see benchmarks on cortex based cpus vs those low wattage intels ;) Apr 13 02:10:38 "An ARM in the hand.." Apr 13 02:12:27 I'm more interested in power consumption compared to performance, t_s_o. Apr 13 02:12:32 maybe the popularity of the arm in the U.S. has to do with the 2nd Amendement? Apr 13 02:14:00 wow, though crowd here tonite... Apr 13 02:14:14 tough even Apr 13 02:14:15 GeneralAntilles: heh, true that. but i dont think the mainstream will take arm serious as the basis for a computing platform these days unless it can outperform intel chips while using less energy... Apr 13 02:15:08 that is, devices that are more then a browser and media player... Apr 13 02:15:09 Eh, I don't think most of the mainstream cares what architecture their stuff is using. Apr 13 02:15:32 The key is, does it get decent battery life while doing what I need it to do? Apr 13 02:15:39 heh, maybe so Apr 13 02:15:59 and makes one look "good" while doing so, see iphone... Apr 13 02:22:33 the exceedingly high performance of desktops means desktop apps are bloaty and cpu hungry, which means they won't easily run even on low-power x86, and this helps insulate the handheld market from the desktop software Apr 13 02:23:08 maybe that idea is poorly worded Apr 13 02:23:15 Meh Apr 13 02:23:22 That's if you're focusing in the high end market Apr 13 02:23:43 There are plenty of nonbloaty apps that are in development that are overshadowed by their flashy counterparts Apr 13 02:23:56 ok Apr 13 02:24:01 s/are in development/are actively developed/ Apr 13 02:24:01 Navi meant: There are plenty of nonbloaty apps that are actively developed that are overshadowed by their flashy counterparts Apr 13 02:24:30 it is certainly the case that the rapid increase in CPU speed with no real increase in computer utility is doing Bad Things for application footprints Apr 13 02:24:45 I mean ... computers are four times as fast as they were five years ago, and don't essentially do any more than they did then Apr 13 02:27:57 not true Apr 13 02:28:01 they can run vista now Apr 13 02:28:02 ;) Apr 13 02:28:19 KotCzarny: didn't you do something wtih battery status monitoring? Apr 13 02:28:27 nope Apr 13 02:28:31 i got drawn away Apr 13 02:28:32 http://nitapps.com/dists/chinook/user/binary-armel/battery_status_1.0-2.armel.deb there's a neato app for it Apr 13 02:28:50 hmm Apr 13 02:28:52 http://nitapps.com/ usage Apr 13 02:29:06 isn't it the one that enables battery applet as a side effect? Apr 13 02:29:08 :) Apr 13 02:29:41 i like seeing a percent not just the estimate, plus it's neat to be able to write to a logfile Apr 13 02:29:41 says so on the page Apr 13 02:29:54 pupnik, not true Apr 13 02:29:58 it's ALWAYS an estimate Apr 13 02:29:59 :) Apr 13 02:30:22 it's an arbitrary number derived from few assumptions Apr 13 02:30:30 ok Apr 13 02:30:39 hmm my room lighting is at "0 lux" Apr 13 02:30:39 it's li-polymer/ion Apr 13 02:30:43 I'm pretty sure he ment an estimated time left. Apr 13 02:31:54 heh, i wonder if one could mod the tablet to play that old modem connection "sound" whenever one connects via bluetooth ;) Apr 13 02:32:06 Heh Apr 13 02:32:18 sure Apr 13 02:32:26 still, that would invite beatings when out in public... Apr 13 02:32:26 when it starts pin-helper app Apr 13 02:32:27 :) Apr 13 02:35:59 GPS activated. Time to first fix 01m54s Adjusted clock by 528.66 seconds to match GPS time Apr 13 02:36:21 wow Apr 13 02:36:26 hey guys, how do i make my n810 show up on my LAN? Apr 13 02:36:36 in my netowrk Apr 13 02:36:45 m$ guy Apr 13 02:36:59 ahhh :) Apr 13 02:37:00 ? Apr 13 02:37:08 zerodgre: what do you mean by 'my lan' ? Apr 13 02:37:18 on my wirless network at my house Apr 13 02:37:28 just connect it to the ap/adhoc Apr 13 02:37:31 i want it to show up when i click netowrok Apr 13 02:37:41 on my desktop Apr 13 02:37:54 network? Apr 13 02:38:15 like in mwindows Apr 13 02:38:22 i on my desktop Apr 13 02:38:29 does windows use broadcast ping to find hosts on the LAN? Apr 13 02:38:36 samba does Apr 13 02:38:38 i want the n81o to be on my netowrk list Apr 13 02:38:51 does ITOS2008 even have a samba server? Apr 13 02:38:51 i don't think broadcast ping goes over wlan Apr 13 02:38:57 it sends samba discover packets on a regular interval Apr 13 02:38:59 pupnik: oit does Apr 13 02:39:04 oh Apr 13 02:39:08 *it does Apr 13 02:39:12 broadast works over wireless, just not quite how you'd expect Apr 13 02:39:17 it's kind of ghetto Apr 13 02:39:20 i want to share the n810 on my network or map the drive in it Apr 13 02:39:35 maybe my wlan router is blocking it Apr 13 02:39:42 it isn't repeated by your router Apr 13 02:39:49 broadcast for 802.11 is LOS Apr 13 02:40:06 guys, to answer zerodegree's question, tell us if ITOS2008 has a samba server or not Apr 13 02:40:07 repeated broadcast packets are evil Apr 13 02:40:08 ;) Apr 13 02:40:19 well, let me take that back -- I think there's more than one kind of broadcast, but I believe the standard Ethernet broadcast that most apps wind up using through the IP stack is LOS Apr 13 02:40:20 you can install samba server on it Apr 13 02:48:48 1) buy bulk usb wlan adaptors 2) attach antenna cable 3) bundle some pcap software, 4) sell for $1500 ... http://www.cacetech.com/products/airpcap-ex.htm Apr 13 02:49:11 ... profit! Apr 13 02:50:14 how much?! Apr 13 02:57:24 ah i see why it's not so easy to do open-source driver for nokia wifi Apr 13 02:57:32 https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/cx3110x-devel/2007-November/000002.html Apr 13 02:59:02 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/c/cx3110x-module-src/ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Apr 13 02:59:57 2008