**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 21 02:59:56 2008
Apr 21 03:23:42 <unixSnob> it would be useful for the maemo mapper to emulate a BT GPS device -- then it could be paired w/ a real BT GPS, and other devices could then pair to the emulated one
Apr 21 03:24:05 <KotCzarny> mail the author
Apr 21 03:24:06 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 03:24:41 <unixSnob> i just wonder how many folks are really in my situation of having the need for that
Apr 21 03:25:17 <unixSnob> it would be cool to have tomtom on the palm navigating, and have the NIT showing a satellite map or something
Apr 21 03:27:40 <unixSnob> the maemo mapper shows a repeat of all the types of maps available under the "maps" menu choice
Apr 21 05:32:21 <Khertan_on_n810> Hi !
Apr 21 05:41:34 <lopz> bye
Apr 21 05:42:52 <WormFood> can anyone find the "pushit" package for me? Maybe someone downloaded it, and still has it laying around. The web site link is broken last few times I tried it
Apr 21 05:44:27 <Khertan_on_n810> pushit ?
Apr 21 05:45:30 <WormFood> yes
Apr 21 05:48:21 <WormFood> it is a sokoban clone for the n800
Apr 21 05:48:45 <WormFood> I've played all the way though marbles game....hard, but enjoyable
Apr 21 05:50:40 <Khertan_on_n810> i don t have it, and repository seems absent : 404 error
Apr 21 05:50:42 <Khertan_on_n810> sorry
Apr 21 05:51:01 <WormFood> that is why I was hoping someone had downloaded it, and still has it laying around
Apr 21 05:51:21 <WormFood> I've gotten into the habit now of saving all my packages, that way I don't have to download them again
Apr 21 05:51:28 <WormFood> sometimes my internet connection is SUPER slow!
Apr 21 06:02:31 <Khertan_on_n810> bye
Apr 21 06:15:53 <inz> Worm, did you play it through on the hardest level?
Apr 21 06:59:18 <else58> ~root
Apr 21 06:59:21 <infobot> [root] not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.
Apr 21 07:00:46 <StormEveryDay> Hi
Apr 21 07:01:06 <Tama^2> root
Apr 21 07:01:22 <Tama^2> ~root
Apr 21 07:01:23 <infobot> root is probably not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.
Apr 21 07:01:24 <StormEveryDay> Who can help me? My 770 have problem...
Apr 21 07:02:03 <BugBlue> what problem?
Apr 21 07:02:24 <StormEveryDay> It just stuck at begining, just show me the "NOKIA" logo, then it automatically off after several minutes
Apr 21 07:02:48 <StormEveryDay> The detail description is:
Apr 21 07:02:48 <StormEveryDay> 1,push the "power" button to let the N770 start to boot
Apr 21 07:02:48 <StormEveryDay> 2,N770 show the "NOKIA" in screen then it stopped, dont show the "hand shake" screen.
Apr 21 07:02:48 <StormEveryDay> 3,wait several minutes, it automatically power off(At least screen goto off).
Apr 21 07:03:08 <StormEveryDay> try to use Flasher-3.0 to flash the official image(2006 or 2007HE), flash succeeded, but still have same result.
Apr 21 07:03:40 <StormEveryDay> I have posted it in internettablettalk
Apr 21 07:03:40 <BugBlue> sounds like a hanging driver or so
Apr 21 07:03:47 <BugBlue> do you have any SD cards in it?
Apr 21 07:03:52 <BugBlue> tried to remove them?
Apr 21 07:03:59 <StormEveryDay> I have a RS-MMC card
Apr 21 07:04:13 <BugBlue> [disclaimer: I have a N810 and don't know the 770]
Apr 21 07:04:27 <BugBlue> remove it from the device and try to boot again
Apr 21 07:04:57 <StormEveryDay> OK,I will try it
Apr 21 07:05:18 <StormEveryDay> !!! great! it seems working now!!
Apr 21 07:05:47 <StormEveryDay> How you think about it? really unbeliveable!
Apr 21 08:21:08 <Italodance> http://n800.bloggercomm.com/2007/08/wimax_version_of_n800_coming_t.php
Apr 21 08:21:11 <Italodance> huh!?
Apr 21 08:24:05 <anidel> good morning
Apr 21 08:24:14 <qwerty12> good morning
Apr 21 08:24:24 <anidel> hey qwerty, hi
Apr 21 08:24:34 <qwerty12> hi anidel :)
Apr 21 08:24:46 <anidel> did you see how far Xournal went ? :)
Apr 21 08:24:50 <qwerty12> Yeo
Apr 21 08:24:56 <qwerty12> s/Yeo/Yes
Apr 21 08:24:59 <anidel> awesome :)
Apr 21 08:25:10 <qwerty12> It's great! Brilliant work :)
Apr 21 08:25:38 <anidel> I have mailed Denis about it...
Apr 21 08:49:14 <lardman> morning all
Apr 21 08:49:21 <anidel> morning
Apr 21 08:49:24 <qwerty12> morning
Apr 21 08:49:34 <X-Fade> morning
Apr 21 09:02:31 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Apr 21 09:02:37 <qwerty12> Morning
Apr 21 09:02:38 <pancake> porning
Apr 21 09:02:49 <Italodance> umm where can i find backgrounds for my n800 os2008?
Apr 21 09:06:55 <Jaffa> Response to my blog post seems to have been well received :-)
Apr 21 09:07:21 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Sure, would you expect anything else?
Apr 21 09:07:35 <Jaffa> Nice to be sure
Apr 21 09:08:21 <Italodance> hi qwerty12
Apr 21 09:08:37 <anidel> hey Jaffa.. it was a very cool post indeed
Apr 21 09:08:49 <Italodance> qwerty12 xmms has an icon for menu? or only run with x-term ??
Apr 21 09:10:42 <Italodance> qwerty12 can u reply me?
Apr 21 09:13:10 <qwerty12> Italodance, it has a icon in the menu.
Apr 21 09:13:32 <Italodance> qwerty12 where is the full package for download?
Apr 21 09:13:54 <qwerty12> Read the first post in the thread, it tells you everything.
Apr 21 09:14:17 <Italodance> yes but http://debfarm.free.fr/???????? the page is down?
Apr 21 09:14:31 <qwerty12> http://debfarm.free.fr/pool/
Apr 21 09:14:37 <Italodance> oh tnx
Apr 21 09:14:58 <Italodance> qwerty12 it doesn't hurt to my device?
Apr 21 09:15:10 <Italodance> afraid cos it is not an official app!
Apr 21 09:15:12 <qwerty12> Mine is working fine with it installed.
Apr 21 09:16:32 <AStorm> ok, time for a major Q:
Apr 21 09:16:53 <AStorm> does N810 present itself as an USB high load device? (500 mA per standard)
Apr 21 09:17:19 <lardman> I'd guess not as it doesn't recharge over usb
Apr 21 09:18:02 <AStorm> might still, who knows
Apr 21 09:18:14 <AStorm> I'd have to grab a dump out of the controller
Apr 21 09:18:29 <AStorm> fortunately, as it is Linux, we can easily negotiate high current in software
Apr 21 09:19:25 <lardman> Why do you ask?
Apr 21 09:19:42 <AStorm> guess
Apr 21 09:19:53 <AStorm> want to mod N810 to charge directly over USB
Apr 21 09:20:00 <lardman> oh I see
Apr 21 09:20:11 <lardman> well in that case a change to the kernel should do the trick
Apr 21 09:20:12 <anidel> it'll be a hardware hack, will it ?
Apr 21 09:20:23 <lardman> (asking for more current that is)
Apr 21 09:20:25 <AStorm> anidel: partially, adding two diodes
Apr 21 09:20:47 <AStorm> and a connection between usb port power lines and power connector
Apr 21 09:21:05 <anidel> a friend of mine bought the USB cable from Nokia for charging it... 25€!!! damn them.. so expensive
Apr 21 09:21:27 <AStorm> and it still has the stupid small 5V plug
Apr 21 09:21:29 <AStorm> :-)
Apr 21 09:21:29 <glass> just adding a charger plug to usb cord is easy
Apr 21 09:21:37 <anidel> AStorm: if it's easy to do, I'll do it.. when mine is not under warranty anymore :)
Apr 21 09:21:42 <AStorm> anidel: :>
Apr 21 09:21:49 <aquatix> anidel: eh? you *can* charge it with that cable?
Apr 21 09:21:54 <aquatix> thought it wasn't possible by default
Apr 21 09:22:00 <AStorm> not that one
Apr 21 09:22:13 <anidel> aquatix: sure.. it's USB to Nokia charger plug.. it charges all the nokia's recent phone and the N800/N810 as well
Apr 21 09:22:16 <AStorm> it's USB -> Nokia 2mm connector
Apr 21 09:22:16 <pupnik> has anybody tried the 4x NiMH AA without regulator?
Apr 21 09:22:19 <aquatix> anidel: oh :)
Apr 21 09:22:25 <AStorm> pupnik: well, there's DC-8
Apr 21 09:22:26 <aquatix> meh
Apr 21 09:22:28 <lardman> pupnik: I have on the Zaurus
Apr 21 09:22:29 <anidel> last day it was chargint the N95 and later the N810 as well
Apr 21 09:22:29 <AStorm> buy one and destroy
Apr 21 09:22:43 <anidel> I don't remember the cable name
Apr 21 09:22:47 <AStorm> I guess a tiny regulator would work
Apr 21 09:22:51 <AStorm> it's just 0,2V up
Apr 21 09:22:53 <anidel> probably
Apr 21 09:23:15 <AStorm> pupnik: if it works over USB, then it should with 4,8V
Apr 21 09:23:28 <AStorm> as USB of high charge can provide 4,75V per spec
Apr 21 09:23:38 <anidel> it's the CA-100 cable
Apr 21 09:23:41 <AStorm> unless they added a step up in the cable
Apr 21 09:23:58 <anidel> it Italian: http://www.nokia.it/ca-100
Apr 21 09:24:04 <AStorm> which I find plausible (it has negotiation electronics too)
Apr 21 09:24:38 <AStorm> DC-8 charger is for 4x AA
Apr 21 09:25:05 <pupnik> dc-8 not available in germany
Apr 21 09:25:30 <AStorm> unfortunately
Apr 21 09:25:33 <AStorm> or in Poland
Apr 21 09:25:49 <pupnik> heh bp-4l from nokia 53 euro
Apr 21 09:26:06 <AStorm> yup
Apr 21 09:26:10 <AStorm> but no desk charger
Apr 21 09:26:25 <AStorm> w/o a desk charger it's somewhat pointless ;>
Apr 21 09:26:29 * pupnik lols and wires together 4aas
Apr 21 09:27:00 <anidel> going for a coffee.. ttyl
Apr 21 09:27:21 <KotCzarny> erm
Apr 21 09:27:27 <KotCzarny> dc-8 is ~30 EUR
Apr 21 09:27:34 <KotCzarny> for a piece of plastic and connector?
Apr 21 09:27:35 <KotCzarny> O.o
Apr 21 09:27:41 <AStorm> yup ;>
Apr 21 09:27:51 <aquatix> KotCzarny: that's commercial chargers etc for you...
Apr 21 09:27:53 <AStorm> and a diode
Apr 21 09:28:05 <AStorm> LED, actually
Apr 21 09:28:06 <KotCzarny> that's a piece of... plastic
Apr 21 09:28:07 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 09:28:13 <AStorm> and some metal
Apr 21 09:28:19 <AStorm> and it's bad shape too
Apr 21 09:28:21 <KotCzarny> mostly plastic
Apr 21 09:28:31 <KotCzarny> yup, bad for tablet
Apr 21 09:28:39 <AStorm> we want a flat version
Apr 21 09:28:57 <AStorm> I think tablet has its own power regulator, which should easily swallow 0,2V difference
Apr 21 09:29:23 <KotCzarny> someone should try 4x aa (nimh preferably)
Apr 21 09:29:32 <AStorm> yes, NiMH would be safer
Apr 21 09:29:39 <AStorm> 4x AA might be frying ;P
Apr 21 09:29:52 <AStorm> and definitely need an additional power regulator
Apr 21 09:30:31 <AStorm> 6V to 5V limiter (read, like a zener)
Apr 21 09:30:48 <KotCzarny> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L99cw05nmSI&feature=related
Apr 21 09:30:49 <KotCzarny> lol
Apr 21 09:31:37 <KotCzarny> ah, and i have forgot.. piece of plastic with some metal and NOKIA logo
Apr 21 09:31:38 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 09:32:05 <AStorm> yes, that logo is the most expensive thing
Apr 21 09:32:19 <KotCzarny> definitely
Apr 21 09:32:44 <AStorm> pupnik: just drop in a buck power regulator (dirt cheap, like 0,5$)
Apr 21 09:33:42 <pupnik> i read the thoughtfix blogthread on it.
Apr 21 09:34:15 <AStorm> even a linear regulator could do, if you're feeling cheap
Apr 21 09:34:36 <AStorm> but then you'd get less power out of the batteries (like, 80%? and it'd heat up a bit)
Apr 21 09:36:18 <AStorm> like, a cheap LM2575S
Apr 21 09:36:41 <KotCzarny> http://www.goldengadgets.com/product_info.php?products_id=396{1}36
Apr 21 09:36:44 <KotCzarny> this one is interesting
Apr 21 09:36:51 <KotCzarny> probably with builtin regulator
Apr 21 09:37:04 <KotCzarny> as it operates on 1 (one) AA
Apr 21 09:37:05 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 09:37:12 <KotCzarny> and is a little cheaper too
Apr 21 09:37:19 <AStorm> and it drains the battery fast?
Apr 21 09:37:32 <soman> how to play avi file using gst-launch ... i mean the exact pipeline syntax for running it on N810
Apr 21 09:37:33 <AStorm> I'd think like 4x as fast ;>
Apr 21 09:37:39 <KotCzarny> kind of
Apr 21 09:37:46 <KotCzarny> but look at the price
Apr 21 09:37:50 <KotCzarny> just get 4 of them
Apr 21 09:37:51 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 21 09:37:55 <AStorm> # Output Voltage: 5.7V +- 5%
Apr 21 09:37:58 <AStorm> FRIED
Apr 21 09:38:04 <KotCzarny> nope
Apr 21 09:38:05 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 09:38:09 <AStorm> why nope
Apr 21 09:38:15 <AStorm> it's over 10%
Apr 21 09:38:35 <AStorm> and charging current is too low, just 400mA
Apr 21 09:38:43 <AStorm> to charge N with it, you'd have to shut it down
Apr 21 09:39:08 <AD-N770> soman: you can use playbin, gst-launch-0.10 playbin uri=file://<absolute path to file>
Apr 21 09:39:09 <KotCzarny> i'm willing to take a try
Apr 21 09:39:19 <KotCzarny> let's find shipping price
Apr 21 09:39:35 <AStorm> I'd rather build one myself
Apr 21 09:39:35 <KotCzarny> 2.15$
Apr 21 09:39:37 <KotCzarny> hum
Apr 21 09:39:40 <AStorm> on 2x AA
Apr 21 09:39:48 <KotCzarny> do 6$ total
Apr 21 09:39:52 <soman> AD-N770: i tried playbin,, but im unable to redirect the video output... its coming in a different window
Apr 21 09:40:14 <AStorm> so, that'd easily give me 800 mA
Apr 21 09:40:30 <AStorm> (with alkaline batteries - normal can go much higher, so can NiMH)
Apr 21 09:40:53 <AD-N770> soman: gst-launch will create their own window, you need to write code to specify your app window if you need it
Apr 21 09:41:06 <KotCzarny> still, with 3Ah nimh you would get ~2h of work
Apr 21 09:41:13 <KotCzarny> on a single AA
Apr 21 09:41:17 <AStorm> you're funny
Apr 21 09:41:24 <pupnik> hmm maybe you'd really want 2 (parallel) x 4AA (serial) to handle the current
Apr 21 09:41:24 <AStorm> these cost more than it's worth
Apr 21 09:41:35 <AStorm> I'd rather buy the Li-Poly BP-4L then
Apr 21 09:41:44 <AStorm> pupnik: no
Apr 21 09:41:48 <AStorm> that's way too much
Apr 21 09:42:03 <AStorm> it'd provide *with alkalines* 800 mA
Apr 21 09:42:14 <pupnik> no NiMH
Apr 21 09:42:16 <AStorm> and direct 4,8V-6V
Apr 21 09:42:19 <AD-N770> soman: http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/gstreamer/gst-python/examples/play.py?view=markup
Apr 21 09:43:09 <AStorm> do you think this one would do?
Apr 21 09:43:12 <AStorm> LM1086
Apr 21 09:43:21 <AStorm> or is it too weak? ;P
Apr 21 09:43:28 <timeless> anyone here know where i can find htop?
Apr 21 09:44:02 <AD-N770> soman: self.imagesink.set_xwindow_id(self.window.xid)
Apr 21 09:44:18 <johnx> extras maybe? or extras-devel?
Apr 21 09:44:42 <KotCzarny> http://www.mobileplace.co.uk/product/2093.html
Apr 21 09:44:51 <KotCzarny> it lists n800 on a compatibility list
Apr 21 09:45:02 <KotCzarny> i know that it's nothing
Apr 21 09:45:08 <johnx> nevermind, it looks like htop is in the main maemo repository (not extras or -devel)
Apr 21 09:45:57 <AStorm> KotCzarny: it is possible that Nxxx have a real power regulator
Apr 21 09:46:00 <AStorm> which can do 20%
Apr 21 09:47:08 <KotCzarny> astorm, even if it wouldn't work as expected it would provide plug and a regulator for self-made project
Apr 21 09:47:09 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 09:47:17 <AStorm> oh, we could use the ubercheap LM350T
Apr 21 09:47:18 <AStorm> :>
Apr 21 09:47:32 <AStorm> KotCzarny: Not the regulator
Apr 21 09:47:49 <KotCzarny> stepup, let it be
Apr 21 09:47:50 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 09:47:56 <AStorm> yup, LM350T will do, it can be set to regulate anything from 1,25 to 33V
Apr 21 09:47:57 <AStorm> 3A
Apr 21 09:47:57 <anidel> back from coffee :p
Apr 21 09:48:26 <KotCzarny> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11867
Apr 21 09:48:31 <KotCzarny> this one could be nice
Apr 21 09:48:35 <KotCzarny> but the color is meh
Apr 21 09:49:09 <KotCzarny> - Comes with LED/UV search light
Apr 21 09:49:10 <KotCzarny> lol
Apr 21 09:49:26 <AStorm> rotfl
Apr 21 09:49:29 <KotCzarny> worldwide free shipping
Apr 21 09:49:30 <KotCzarny> O.o
Apr 21 09:49:31 <AStorm> ok, have to fly now :-)
Apr 21 09:49:49 <AStorm> KotCzarny: if you grab 1000 pcs?
Apr 21 09:49:54 <KotCzarny> nope
Apr 21 09:49:58 <KotCzarny> even with 1
Apr 21 09:50:25 <KotCzarny> who uses ugly red plastic
Apr 21 09:50:26 <KotCzarny> ugh
Apr 21 09:50:41 <AStorm> cheap people
Apr 21 09:50:47 <AStorm> we'll talk later :-)
Apr 21 09:50:55 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 21 09:50:58 <KotCzarny> interesting
Apr 21 09:51:05 <AStorm> I think LM350T plus some switch to pick the set of resistors would rock
Apr 21 09:51:27 <KotCzarny> can you beat the price?
Apr 21 09:51:31 <KotCzarny> 4.76$ shipped
Apr 21 09:51:32 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 09:51:58 <kpel> hi
Apr 21 09:52:11 <AStorm> KotCzarny: yeah, I can
Apr 21 09:52:18 <AStorm> 2 PLN per package of 5
Apr 21 09:52:27 <KotCzarny> assembled?
Apr 21 09:52:28 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 09:52:29 <AStorm> but I'll still have to build the case ;P
Apr 21 09:52:30 <AStorm> no
Apr 21 09:54:28 <AStorm> need a current limiter, I think 1A will do
Apr 21 09:54:36 <AStorm> that LM could be used for that
Apr 21 09:54:45 <AStorm> the only downside is the efficiency ;P
Apr 21 09:54:57 <AStorm> argh, no
Apr 21 09:54:58 <KotCzarny> don't skimp 1$
Apr 21 09:55:09 <KotCzarny> get the >90% efficient one
Apr 21 09:55:12 <AStorm> it's minimal input voltage of 4,2V
Apr 21 09:55:15 <KotCzarny> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6655
Apr 21 09:55:20 <KotCzarny> this one is interesting
Apr 21 09:56:22 <AStorm> http://www.chipcatalog.com/National/LM2621.htm
Apr 21 09:56:26 <AStorm> this one is more like it
Apr 21 09:56:47 <AStorm> note that with a plug change, I could use it for car charger too
Apr 21 09:57:20 <AStorm> but it's damn expensive ;P
Apr 21 09:57:36 <AStorm> and it's a step-up
Apr 21 09:57:44 <AStorm> so, for car, I'd need a step-down ;P
Apr 21 10:00:50 <AStorm> http://www.chipcatalog.com/Maxim/MAX1687.htm whee
Apr 21 10:01:32 <AStorm> still too high Vin
Apr 21 10:01:44 <KotCzarny> just get 4xAA
Apr 21 10:02:01 <AStorm> that's large
Apr 21 10:02:12 <AStorm> what for if we have nice regulators?
Apr 21 10:02:26 <KotCzarny> 4xAA has a benefit of more juice
Apr 21 10:02:28 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 10:02:40 <AStorm> 2x AA can get 4000 mAh
Apr 21 10:02:44 <AStorm> so?
Apr 21 10:02:52 <AStorm> or more
Apr 21 10:02:57 <KotCzarny> heh, at 1.2V :P
Apr 21 10:03:01 <AStorm> yes
Apr 21 10:03:09 <AStorm> if I get nice enough regulator, it'd rock
Apr 21 10:03:18 <KotCzarny> but not too long
Apr 21 10:03:19 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 10:03:32 <AStorm> http://www.chipcatalog.com/Maxim/MAX1700.htm
Apr 21 10:03:37 <AStorm> why not for long? ;P
Apr 21 10:04:14 <KotCzarny> nokia could just have used 2xAA for powering :/
Apr 21 10:04:16 <AStorm> slightly small Iout this time
Apr 21 10:04:22 <AStorm> exactly, they could
Apr 21 10:04:27 <AStorm> but the device would be too heavy
Apr 21 10:04:37 <KotCzarny> lol
Apr 21 10:04:41 <KotCzarny> you're kidding, right?
Apr 21 10:04:46 <AStorm> I'm not
Apr 21 10:04:49 <AStorm> it's heavy as it is
Apr 21 10:04:54 <AStorm> for holding in a hand
Apr 21 10:05:00 <AStorm> bbml
Apr 21 10:05:33 <KotCzarny> btw. stepups have lower efficiency with lower Vin
Apr 21 10:05:41 <glass> 4000mah at 1.2v vs 1500(or what is it at) at 3.7v....
Apr 21 10:06:14 <AStorm> 3.7V?
Apr 21 10:06:15 <AStorm> wtf?
Apr 21 10:06:21 <KotCzarny> glass: with 90% efficiency it's 3600mAh @ 1.2v
Apr 21 10:06:25 <AStorm> 3,6V is 3x NiMh
Apr 21 10:06:51 <johnx> 3Whr vs 5.550 Whr (roughly)
Apr 21 10:06:52 <KotCzarny> but for that you would have to hack the battery
Apr 21 10:06:58 <johnx> wait, that can't be right
Apr 21 10:07:12 <KotCzarny> you have to divide
Apr 21 10:07:14 <KotCzarny> not multiply
Apr 21 10:07:15 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 21 10:07:20 <AStorm> no, no and no
Apr 21 10:07:25 <AStorm> multiply, really
Apr 21 10:07:33 <glass> just multiply
Apr 21 10:07:58 <glass> 4000x1.2 vs 3.7x1500(or whatever the batt is, i forgot)
Apr 21 10:08:06 <KotCzarny> ok ok
Apr 21 10:08:14 <AStorm> battery is 3,7V, yes
Apr 21 10:08:22 <AStorm> 2-cell I think
Apr 21 10:08:39 <AStorm> maybe 4 cell
Apr 21 10:08:40 <KotCzarny> still, it's not 4000
Apr 21 10:08:57 <KotCzarny> ok, 4000 with 2x2200
Apr 21 10:08:58 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 10:08:59 <AStorm> yeah, if we could just grab the cells... and correct charging
Apr 21 10:09:12 <AStorm> then it'd rock
Apr 21 10:09:24 <KotCzarny> i wonder if it would charge with 5V
Apr 21 10:09:26 <AStorm> you'd get ultralight expander, costing 125$
Apr 21 10:09:26 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 21 10:09:27 <KotCzarny> erm
Apr 21 10:09:29 <KotCzarny> with 3.6V
Apr 21 10:09:42 <AStorm> well, it will
Apr 21 10:10:00 <AStorm> but unless it's a smart battery, you'd fry it
Apr 21 10:10:15 <AStorm> I don't know if it's one
Apr 21 10:10:40 <AStorm> I think it is
Apr 21 10:10:50 <AStorm> as I've seen no li-poly charger inside N810
Apr 21 10:10:53 <johnx> I used to use the pelican PSP external Li-Ion pack with my zaurus, until it got recalled as a fire risk...
Apr 21 10:10:59 <AStorm> hehehe
Apr 21 10:11:08 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 21 10:11:14 <johnx> it made a great squealing noise when in use
Apr 21 10:11:21 <glass> ha
Apr 21 10:11:21 <johnx> it annoyed everyone in the room
Apr 21 10:11:37 <AStorm> haha, 300MHz charger ;P
Apr 21 10:11:52 <AStorm> where certain harmonic is 15kHz
Apr 21 10:12:00 <AStorm> and another is 3kHz
Apr 21 10:12:02 <AStorm> :P
Apr 21 10:12:05 <johnx> probably
Apr 21 10:12:20 <AStorm> s/300MHz/300kHz/
Apr 21 10:13:05 <AStorm> ok, bbml, I'm already late :P
Apr 21 10:13:17 <johnx> 'later :D
Apr 21 11:26:25 <Mikho> does anyone know why does my hildon_play_system_sound() call throw error messages like "arguments to dbus_message_new_method_call() were incorrect, assertion "_dbus_check_is_valid_path (path)" failed in file dbus-message.c line 797
Apr 21 11:26:59 <Mikho> the weird thing is that it plays the sound alright
Apr 21 11:27:27 <Mikho> I have this problem only on the N770. The dev PC side works perfectly
Apr 21 11:29:07 <Mikho> Maybe it tries to get the volume level from gconf but fails
Apr 21 11:31:52 <lardman> It would be worth adding a bug for it
Apr 21 11:32:05 <KotCzarny> heh
Apr 21 11:32:08 <lardman> Even though it has no effect, there is presumably something going wrong in either the code or the reporting method
Apr 21 11:32:09 <KotCzarny> it must be late
Apr 21 11:32:19 <KotCzarny> i have misread your nick as 'lartman'
Apr 21 11:32:20 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 11:32:30 <lardman> :)
Apr 21 11:32:38 <KotCzarny> k, bedtime ;)
Apr 21 11:32:52 <lardman> 'night
Apr 21 11:33:07 <Mikho> It's just one method call with one parameter: the sound file name
Apr 21 11:33:15 <Mikho> what can go wrong?
Apr 21 11:34:28 <lardman> Mikho: is the source available?
Apr 21 11:35:10 <Mikho> hildon-widgets/hildon-system-sound.h should be available, I guess
Apr 21 11:36:09 <Mikho> gah, can't find the c file
Apr 21 11:38:58 <Mikho> I think the gconf call fails for some reason
Apr 21 11:38:59 <lardman> the source should be in the reop
Apr 21 11:39:05 <lardman> repo
Apr 21 11:39:52 <lardman> somewhere in here I imagine http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0/free/d/dbus/
Apr 21 11:40:18 <lardman> http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/api/html/dbus-message_8c-source.html was what a quick Google found, but the line number doesn't match so there's probably a version or patch difference
Apr 21 11:40:49 <Mikho> there are maybe 15 rows of error messages, that's just the first
Apr 21 11:41:45 <Mikho> it might be the line numbers don't match because of all the #ifndef and #endif blocks
Apr 21 11:42:43 <lcuk_work> dont compilers normally account for that and store the actual line number no matter whether you ifdefed or not
Apr 21 11:42:46 <Dazgar1> hi there
Apr 21 11:43:03 <lardman> lcuk_work: That's what I would have thought...
Apr 21 11:43:04 <Dazgar1> anyone here having bad wifi performance here ?
Apr 21 11:43:25 <Dazgar1> i can't get more than 200ko with my n800
Apr 21 11:43:28 <lardman> Mikho: I see there's a test case here: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-1/tests/check-hildon-system-sound.c
Apr 21 11:43:59 <Cptn-N800> Kb or kB?
Apr 21 11:44:10 <Mikho> hmm
Apr 21 11:44:34 <lardman> https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-libs/hildon-widgets/hildon-system-sound.c there's the code
Apr 21 11:44:42 <lardman> lunch time
Apr 21 11:45:05 <Cptn-N800> Ive had abot 200KB, but my line isnt faster :p
Apr 21 11:47:40 <Mikho> argh, I don't have time for this
Apr 21 11:48:08 <Dazgar1> Cptn-N800: sorry
Apr 21 11:48:20 <Dazgar1> kB
Apr 21 11:48:56 <Dazgar1> but 200KB is miserable, even my n95 is faster than that !!
Apr 21 11:49:35 <Dazgar1> i can't do any serious x11 forwarding with such bad performance :(
Apr 21 11:49:40 <Cptn-N800> ...What do you need that fast speed for?
Apr 21 11:49:46 <lcuk_work> is this specific tested wifi speed only, or a single site that your using for testing?
Apr 21 11:49:52 <Dazgar1> X11 forwarding :)
Apr 21 11:50:09 <Dazgar1> and to control ardour from my n800 when recording
Apr 21 11:50:32 <lcuk_work> when you say your n95 is faster - is that using wifi?
Apr 21 11:50:43 <lcuk_work> ie is it doing the encryption/decryption?
Apr 21 11:50:46 <Dazgar1> lcuk_work: yes using wifi
Apr 21 11:51:04 <ImMelody> mornin'
Apr 21 11:51:12 <Dazgar1> the n800 is of course encoding for the ssh suppport
Apr 21 11:51:36 <lcuk_work> mornin ImMelody, did you get your supper :P
Apr 21 11:51:37 <Dazgar1> but the device never get high cpu usage when doing so
Apr 21 11:52:00 <ImMelody> he never woke me up... so I slept until 4am when all the junk wore off
Apr 21 11:52:03 <lcuk_work> dunno then
Apr 21 11:52:22 <lcuk_work> :D hit him round the head with your nokia
Apr 21 11:52:28 <Dazgar1> lol
Apr 21 11:52:29 <Dazgar1> :D
Apr 21 11:52:35 <ImMelody> I don't want to do that to my nokia ;)
Apr 21 11:52:40 <lcuk_work> (gently so you dont break it ;) )
Apr 21 11:53:01 <Cptn-N800> Maemo Assaultweapon
Apr 21 11:53:27 <Cptn-N800> *Wants n800 with tazer attachement*i
Apr 21 11:53:31 <lcuk_work> sharpen the edges and use it as a shuriken
Apr 21 11:53:43 <ImMelody> Now that would be awesome!
Apr 21 11:53:53 <ImMelody> the tazer attachment
Apr 21 11:54:08 <Cptn-N800> And technically possible
Apr 21 11:54:36 <lcuk_work> its hardly fear inducing to tell the crook to wait whilst you whip out your stylus, navigate the menus and finally run the app you want before tazer barbs emerge
Apr 21 11:54:37 <Cptn-N800> No problem making a n800 controlled tazer
Apr 21 11:54:46 <Dazgar1> im transfering a file to teh n800 now : 320KB :s
Apr 21 11:54:47 <lcuk_work> you would want some sort of gesture recognition on the front screen
Apr 21 11:55:25 <ImMelody> That's why you put a button on your desktop just for it ;)
Apr 21 11:55:28 <Cptn-N800> Voice recognition
Apr 21 11:55:28 <lcuk_work> a quick zorro mark on the screen, select power rating and BOOM
Apr 21 11:55:38 <Cptn-N800> "Deploy tazer"
Apr 21 11:55:38 <Dazgar1> with an other device using teh same wifi network i can get ~1MB
Apr 21 11:56:01 <lcuk_work> Dear aunt, let’s set so double the killer delete select all.
Apr 21 11:56:40 <lcuk_work> Cptn-N800: would it actually pop out of the top like inspector gadget type equipment
Apr 21 11:56:44 <ImMelody> of course, the problem comes if a thief grabs your nokia as part of his loot.. then he could tase you
Apr 21 11:57:03 <lcuk_work> self tazing :D reverse the polarity of the case
Apr 21 11:57:24 <ImMelody> finger print recognition? :D
Apr 21 11:57:25 <lcuk_work> obut dont tell anyone the secret arming code or they will shout it at you
Apr 21 11:57:39 <lcuk_work> heh, im working on fake fingerprint activation at the moment
Apr 21 11:58:01 <lcuk_work> it will look and act like a security app, but obviously wont do it properly
Apr 21 11:58:09 <lcuk_work> but it will block out people who dont know the trick
Apr 21 11:59:57 <Cptn-N800> Built one of those robot puppy n800's on youtube and pout in a tazer
Apr 21 12:00:30 <lcuk_work> Don't Taze Me Elmo!
Apr 21 12:01:14 <ImMelody> lol... I'll bbiab.. gotta get kiddo up and ready for school
Apr 21 12:01:34 <Dazgar1> by the way, is it possible to do xdmcp with maemo ?
Apr 21 12:01:36 <lcuk_work> k taze ya later
Apr 21 12:02:04 <Dazgar1> i mean accessing my destop from my n800
Apr 21 12:02:05 <Cptn-N800> Inmeldoy: operate a bt module into your kid and control him with your it
Apr 21 12:02:25 <Cptn-N800> Eat_your_fucking_brokoli.deb
Apr 21 12:08:41 <Navi> Wasn't there a gtk editor designed for the tablets somewhere?
Apr 21 12:09:05 <lcuk_work> you mean gtk widget editor or code editor
Apr 21 12:09:29 <Navi> either one, I don't know.
Apr 21 12:09:52 <lcuk_work> pygtkeditor (khertan) uses a gtk text editing component
Apr 21 12:10:11 <lcuk_work> which is highlighting and configurable for languages
Apr 21 12:11:53 <lcuk_work> must dash
Apr 21 12:12:00 <lcuk_work> back after work
Apr 21 12:24:25 <gribouille> hi
Apr 21 12:24:39 <gribouille> is xchat available for OS 2008 ?
Apr 21 12:25:11 <mgedmin> it's not on maemo.org/downloads
Apr 21 12:25:16 <mgedmin> I looked for it this morning
Apr 21 12:27:17 <mgedmin> hm, OS 2007 xchat is also not found there
Apr 21 12:29:24 * mgedmin found the sources
Apr 21 12:30:29 <X-Fade> I gave skyhusker rights to upload it to extras. He was planning to do that.
Apr 21 12:30:46 <X-Fade> It doesn't seem be in extras yet though..
Apr 21 12:30:50 <mgedmin> whois skyhusker?
Apr 21 12:30:56 <mgedmin> Santtu Lakkala?
Apr 21 12:32:06 * mgedmin sighs
Apr 21 12:32:28 <mgedmin> I want a "porting maemo 3.x apps to maemo 4.x" HOWTO
Apr 21 12:32:37 <mgedmin> what replaced HildonProgram?
Apr 21 12:34:59 <GeneralAntilles> http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/
Apr 21 12:35:06 <hrw> gribouille: it is
Apr 21 12:35:19 <GeneralAntilles> I should just script that.
Apr 21 12:35:24 <hrw> ~xchat
Apr 21 12:35:24 <GeneralAntilles> I've already got a bind for it. <_<
Apr 21 12:35:25 <infobot> rumour has it, xchat is an IRC client for unix and windows at http://www.xchat.org or http://www.silverex.org/news/
Apr 21 12:35:32 <hrw> ~xchat-maemo
Apr 21 12:35:33 <mgedmin> GeneralAntilles: no sources in there -- not good
Apr 21 12:35:43 <hrw> mgedmin: normal when it comes to maemo packages
Apr 21 12:35:56 <mgedmin> "normal" is the wrong word
Apr 21 12:35:59 <mgedmin> "usual", perhaps
Apr 21 12:36:11 <mgedmin> "illegal" as well
Apr 21 12:36:24 <hrw> infobot: xchat-maemo is X-Chat for OS2008 is done by skyhusker and can be fetched from http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/ and should be in 'extras' soon
Apr 21 12:36:25 <infobot> hrw: okay
Apr 21 12:36:29 <hrw> ~xchat-maemo
Apr 21 12:36:30 <infobot> i heard xchat-maemo is X-Chat for OS2008 is done by skyhusker and can be fetched from http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/ and should be in 'extras' soon
Apr 21 12:37:03 <GeneralAntilles> Illegal is the wrong word.
Apr 21 12:37:08 <GeneralAntilles> It's not a criminal offense.
Apr 21 12:37:19 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: it is against license?
Apr 21 12:42:25 <ImMelody> I wasn't aware that maemo was released under GNU license
Apr 21 12:43:51 <hrw> ImMelody: only parts
Apr 21 12:44:01 <hrw> and only some versions of components
Apr 21 12:45:59 <hrw> ImMelody: basically maemo is mix of open/close components. some of closed ones were open in previous versions etc
Apr 21 12:46:22 <ImMelody> That was my point. Can't be illegal or against license if it's only partially under GNU. I'm pretty sure that it's totally under Nokia license which protects them.
Apr 21 12:46:51 <GeneralAntilles> We're not talking about maemo.
Apr 21 12:46:57 <hrw> ImMelody: what does mamemo has to xchat?
Apr 21 12:47:29 <ImMelody> I don't think I read far enough back up then.. XD
Apr 21 12:47:47 <ImMelody> I was going off the statement "normal when it comes to maemo packages"
Apr 21 12:48:36 <ImMelody> Ignore me then :)
Apr 21 12:55:25 <gribouille> is it possible to start applications automatically when the tablet boots (like Autostart) ?
Apr 21 12:58:42 <Cptn-N800> Dont think so
Apr 21 12:58:54 <Cptn-N800> I seem to remember someone asking that some months ago
Apr 21 13:00:02 <xuser> why not, its linux...
Apr 21 13:00:19 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17168 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=169203
Apr 21 13:14:34 <gribouille> the solution is a lot more complex than with ubuntu !
Apr 21 13:16:19 <GeneralAntilles> Meh
Apr 21 13:16:27 <GeneralAntilles> It's not an officially supported feature.
Apr 21 13:17:28 <gribouille> unfortunately, many featues common in linux distros are not supported
Apr 21 13:19:18 <GeneralAntilles> Because it's a mobile platform
Apr 21 13:19:46 <GeneralAntilles> The capabilities of a desktop or laptop system are practically unlimited compared to the tablets.
Apr 21 13:19:55 <GeneralAntilles> Things have to be slimmed down for it to work at all.
Apr 21 13:22:05 <gribouille> but why prenvent the user from customizing his tablet if he wants to ?
Apr 21 13:22:19 <GeneralAntilles> Nothing does.
Apr 21 13:23:18 <gribouille> GeneralAntilles, I mean without having to hack the OS
Apr 21 13:23:38 <GeneralAntilles> Back to my first point.
Apr 21 13:26:11 <RST38h> Are we at the "let's use Ubuntu" topic again?
Apr 21 13:26:58 <wnd> I think we're getting there ;-)
Apr 21 13:27:53 <keesj> the modest client starts by default
Apr 21 13:28:04 <X-Fade> Trying to let people understand that a machine with about 5% of the power of your desktop can do the same as your desktop.
Apr 21 13:28:33 <gribouille> it's not really 5%
Apr 21 13:28:51 <RST38h> Can or can't?
Apr 21 13:29:06 <X-Fade> RST38h: Can't.. sorry..
Apr 21 13:29:26 <RST38h> X-Fade: As funny as it is, it can (and it is a bit more than 5% anyway)
Apr 21 13:29:43 <RST38h> X-Fade: But most applications spend an awful lot of time waiting for user input, so it is not that bad
Apr 21 13:30:16 <X-Fade> RST38h: I have 4GB in my desktop with a 4 core cpu that has all kind of multimedia optimizations..
Apr 21 13:30:25 <X-Fade> It can run a lot more at the same time.
Apr 21 13:30:30 <RST38h> X-Fade: But there is still screensize, memory size, available storage, and input method defficiencies to consider
Apr 21 13:30:32 <Mel|BRB> I don't understand the feeling of "wanting more" when what the nokia does is incredible in the first place
Apr 21 13:30:40 <keesj> funny enough it is the bt keyboard that is not handler in a timely fasion
Apr 21 13:30:58 <RST38h> X-Fade: That is *you*. I have a plain 1.1GHz Centrino with 1GB
Apr 21 13:31:05 <hrw> Mel|BRB: o yes, they do lot. and how much in bad style..
Apr 21 13:31:07 <RST38h> X-Fade: It still does the job
Apr 21 13:31:46 <RST38h> X-Fade: With Trident video (the post-bankrupcy one)
Apr 21 13:32:07 <X-Fade> RST38h: Sure, but remove 800 mb ram, disable swap etc. Then you will feel the pain too.
Apr 21 13:32:40 <Mel|BRB> 5 yrs ago we couldn't have imagined that something so small could do all that we can do on our nokias. And in 5 more years there will be even more that you can do with space so small.. but wanting tomorrows technology today seems a bit unfair..
Apr 21 13:33:30 <Mel|BRB> Okay.. Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now :P
Apr 21 13:33:37 <hrw> Mel|BRB: 5 years ago I did not thought that one day I will have to hack 'open' device to have something done right...
Apr 21 13:33:56 <RST38h> X-Fade: I did a lot of development on FreeBSD running on a 90MHz Pentium ;)
Apr 21 13:33:59 <RST38h> 8MB RAM
Apr 21 13:34:16 <X-Fade> RST38h: Yeah, but try to run current firefox on it..
Apr 21 13:34:22 <hrw> my slowest linux box was 386sx+fpu+5MB ram + 120MB hdd
Apr 21 13:34:26 <RST38h> X-Fade: But still, I do not understand why people want full Ubuntu on a palmtop
Apr 21 13:34:29 <hrw> with vga mono monitor
Apr 21 13:34:36 <X-Fade> People expect to run current software on 'old spec' hardware.
Apr 21 13:34:44 <RST38h> X-Fade: Even at THAT time Firefox proved to be a problem ;)
Apr 21 13:35:03 <RST38h> OMAP2 is not old spec, it is just in a different class
Apr 21 13:35:19 <RST38h> It's a bicycle, not a car
Apr 21 13:35:26 <X-Fade> RST38h: Sure, but if I have to explain that to newbies :)
Apr 21 13:35:26 <hrw> X-Fade: but why microb was not updated at all since chinook? it is known to be slow and gecko 1.9 moved a lot since microb/chinook...
Apr 21 13:35:45 <X-Fade> hrw: Ask timeless, I really don't know.
Apr 21 13:35:47 <RST38h> X-Fade: Just inform them of power requirements
Apr 21 13:36:08 <Mel|BRB> hrw: I can understand that nokia wants to protect itself. The fact that it's the only products of it's "kind" and we don't have to pay a cent for anything past the model itself leaves me happy.
Apr 21 13:36:14 <RST38h> N810 reports 5 hours of active battery use or 10 days standby with full battery
Apr 21 13:36:39 <X-Fade> RST38h: Those figures are way too low ;)
Apr 21 13:36:46 <Mel|BRB> I tell my mom the things I can do on it. You know what she says, "I can do that on my palm too. I just need to go buy the program." Sorry if I'm happy with what I have.
Apr 21 13:36:53 <RST38h> That is 1.1Wh active or 23mWh standby
Apr 21 13:36:53 <X-Fade> A month standby can be done..
Apr 21 13:37:00 <hrw> wich 'normal' distro I can just upgrade browser to newer version to get speedups
Apr 21 13:37:03 <GeneralAntilles> hrw, blame the release cycles of bundled software.
Apr 21 13:37:13 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: or nokia/maemo itself
Apr 21 13:37:23 <RST38h> X-Fade: Well, I guess they mean "standby with this particular set of bg apps"
Apr 21 13:37:24 <GeneralAntilles> i.e. Nokia
Apr 21 13:37:26 <X-Fade> hrw: chinook is not capable of updates without flashing..
Apr 21 13:37:32 <RST38h> Because these numbers are computed dynamically
Apr 21 13:37:38 <X-Fade> hrw: Let's see when diablo is out..
Apr 21 13:37:42 <hrw> X-Fade: none of maemo releases is and rather none will be
Apr 21 13:37:53 <hrw> s/is/was
Apr 21 13:38:09 <RST38h> But if you compare 1.1/0.23 with Atom's declared figures, it is laughable
Apr 21 13:38:19 <RST38h> 0.023, sorry
Apr 21 13:38:41 <RST38h> Just the Atom CPU (800MHz) requires 2.5Wh/0.1Wh
Apr 21 13:39:05 <RST38h> Yes, you can run "full Ubuntu" on it, but not for very long, and what for?
Apr 21 13:40:06 <hrw> RST38h: basically you will get hit very fast when try to use non-maemo system on nokia tablets
Apr 21 13:40:18 <RST38h> hrw: Not necessarily
Apr 21 13:40:21 <hrw> RST38h: no battery status
Apr 21 13:40:31 <RST38h> hrw: First, you are unlikely to do any worse than 5 hours
Apr 21 13:40:54 <hrw> RST38h: depends on what is running
Apr 21 13:40:59 <RST38h> hrw: Which is still pretty decent for this kind of system with this kidn of battery
Apr 21 13:41:00 <dragorn> RST38h: unless you don't put the wifi device to sleep properly, then you get about 2
Apr 21 13:41:25 <hrw> RST38h: no one likes to have device dying just because battery out
Apr 21 13:41:27 <RST38h> hrw: Second, nothing prohibits you from implementing power-saving
Apr 21 13:41:38 <hrw> dragorn: if you will get wifi working
Apr 21 13:41:54 <RST38h> Let's assume that you sign an NDA and get the documentation
Apr 21 13:41:56 <hrw> RST38h: do you have datasheets for hardware?
Apr 21 13:42:20 <RST38h> hrw: I don't, but somebody the size of Canonical should have no problems getting them
Apr 21 13:42:21 <hrw> RST38h: brb
Apr 21 13:42:22 <dragorn> hrw: I have yet to find a way to restore the power save settings from inside nokia, let alone from a hacked firmware, and I've spent a fair amount of time on it.  Then again, it also turned out to NOT be the cause of the drivers sucking, they just still suck.
Apr 21 13:42:38 <hrw> daughter calls
Apr 21 13:43:19 <dragorn> As far as wifi drivers, the chipset is already understood, it's a prism54 with a softmac.  the problem is conexant put a bunch of custom stuff on it and stuck it on the SPI bus.  The custom stuff makes calibration hard/obscured.
Apr 21 13:48:46 <hrw> dragorn: spi bus is not so big problem
Apr 21 13:49:19 <fysa> wonderful wide scrollbar
Apr 21 13:49:42 <dragorn> hrw: correct, other than breaking things until it's supported.  However the configuration data nokia uses IS a big problem.  if you really care, go look on the linux kernel wireless mailing list logs and look at johannes' work
Apr 21 13:50:13 <hrw> dragorn: thx but I already fought a bit with umac.ko and companies and got tired
Apr 21 13:50:37 <hrw> for now I will stay with 'running non-maemo on tablets are not granted to be usable'
Apr 21 13:50:42 <dragorn> yup, but this has nothing to do with umac.ko, this is about implementing an open driver.  But whatever.
Apr 21 13:50:54 <dragorn> and running maemo on it is not granted to be usable in any edge cases, unfortunately
Apr 21 13:51:07 <hrw> dragorn: at least it gives working battery/bt/wifi
Apr 21 13:51:16 <hrw> and non-working i18n ;D
Apr 21 13:51:16 <dragorn> hrw: depending what you need to do with wifi, yup
Apr 21 13:51:37 <hrw> dragorn: scan for networks, connect to clean/wep/wpa ones
Apr 21 13:51:57 <hrw> dragorn: I use n810 as irc/im/web client mostly
Apr 21 13:52:03 <dragorn> hrw: my biggest gripes are a broken usb dma system making some of my hw unworkable, worked in the beta and not in the release so all that code is worthless now, and completely borked rfmon making my other primary use for the device useless as well.
Apr 21 13:52:10 <hrw> it lack good PIM with alarms
Apr 21 13:52:54 <hrw> dragorn: simple - next time you will choose hardware more detailing
Apr 21 13:53:19 <dragorn> hrw: yes, it's obviously my fault that I wanted to support additional platforms with my stuff, my mistake.
Apr 21 13:53:32 <dragorn> hrw: thanks for clearing that up
Apr 21 13:53:39 <hrw> that was not what I wanted to say but let it be
Apr 21 13:54:00 * mgedmin has a toaster that could use some extra software... not really
Apr 21 13:54:26 <hrw> dragorn: it is hard to require nicely working HW from companies which do not care too much
Apr 21 13:54:43 <mgedmin> I admit when I bought my first 770 I thought all of the software on it was opensource, and was very disappointed
Apr 21 13:55:09 <dragorn> hrw: it's unfortunate that the team at nokia who did the device did such a good job, and appear to have no support from anyone else in the company towards taking it the last steps to make it a great devie
Apr 21 13:56:17 <dragorn> especially when code that would sell more devices for them won't work solely because of software inadequacies.
Apr 21 13:56:24 * mgedmin fears that there are more people in the world who think the ultra-closed iPhone is a great device than people who think the completely-open OpenMoko is a great device
Apr 21 13:56:57 <hrw> daughter calls
Apr 21 13:59:16 <Navi> While the iPhone is puke, it has a better form than the Freerunner
Apr 21 14:01:11 <MangoFusion> ideals and implementations are two different things ;)
Apr 21 14:04:03 <hrw> indeed
Apr 21 14:04:20 <hrw> openmoko team needs more time to give usable software for their hardware
Apr 21 14:04:28 <lardman> I would simply like to have more transparency in the decision making process
Apr 21 14:04:31 <hrw> hardware with 8 years old gsm modem...
Apr 21 14:04:44 <lardman> I would like to know why such and such hasn't been done, etc
Apr 21 14:04:56 <hrw> lardman: or why was done in wrong way
Apr 21 14:05:02 <lardman> indeed
Apr 21 14:05:30 <hrw> mgedmin: iphone has nicer hardware then openmoko phones
Apr 21 14:06:13 <X-Fade> hrw: I don't think you will ever get the tech docs for the gsm modem in the iphone ;)
Apr 21 14:06:22 <lardman> hrw: but the fun is in making it work surely; not so much fun to have something that already works (imo anyway)
Apr 21 14:06:58 <hrw> X-Fade: officially I do not have openmoko one too
Apr 21 14:07:17 <lardman> hrw: though it's also not much fun not knowing how to get something to work...
Apr 21 14:07:38 <hrw> lardman: I would prefer to get opensourced maemo
Apr 21 14:08:21 <hrw> hacking open maemo would be probably more fun then writing from scratch 5th set of openmoko ideas
Apr 21 14:09:05 <X-Fade> Getting tech docs for hardware will always be hard if companies think that it is their IP. And I think they keep certain things under NDA because they have flaws..
Apr 21 14:09:18 <X-Fade> And don't want to look bad for othere..
Apr 21 14:09:28 <X-Fade> *others.
Apr 21 14:09:36 <lardman> hrw: yes indeed, I was thinking more of the hardware
Apr 21 14:10:07 <MangoFusion> nah, its just to keep the competition at bay
Apr 21 14:10:20 <hrw> X-Fade: at least they could make some steps to make it easier to hack for users
Apr 21 14:10:30 <lardman> X-Fade: do you think that really matters to them? The people they sell to will see the flaws when they get access to the docs, etc.
Apr 21 14:10:47 <hrw> X-Fade: I can use Poky on 770 or n810 but what sense it has without battery info? or with broken wifi?
Apr 21 14:11:01 <X-Fade> hrw: Let me think, sell 100M chips for symbian phones without troubles or sell a few openmokos..
Apr 21 14:11:02 <lardman> hrw: well we can get battery info
Apr 21 14:11:12 <X-Fade> That is how hardware companies think..
Apr 21 14:11:29 <lardman> hrw: just rather granular, but I understand your point.
Apr 21 14:12:17 <hrw> X-Fade: and when they buy those 100M chips for symbian phones they get 100K of crap gps chips to use in anything for free. I think thats how n810 got gps -- no one in nokia wanted to use it :D
Apr 21 14:12:26 <X-Fade> Try to get that point across to the TI hardware department is not easy..
Apr 21 14:12:41 <X-Fade> hrw: They work fine with symbian ;)
Apr 21 14:12:45 <lardman> I see they are opening up the newer chips though
Apr 21 14:12:50 <X-Fade> My n95 has a fix in 10 seconds.
Apr 21 14:13:00 <lardman> the 35xx arch manual is available, etc.
Apr 21 14:13:01 <X-Fade> lardman: Yeah that looks promising..
Apr 21 14:13:10 <hrw> X-Fade: magic letter 'A' in AGPS :D
Apr 21 14:13:13 <lardman> shame they don't "back port" the changes ;)
Apr 21 14:13:19 <X-Fade> lardman: Is the new hardware that much different?
Apr 21 14:13:41 <lardman> dunno, but for me, the IVA is a newer version and the PowerVR the same
Apr 21 14:13:42 <X-Fade> lardman: That they now dare to publish it and not for older versions? :)
Apr 21 14:13:56 <lardman> PowerVR the same as in a newer version; so not much use
Apr 21 14:14:40 * hrw -> food
Apr 21 14:17:12 <mgedmin> X-Fade: the wikipedia page about GPS is a good way to reduce your expectations and learn to love the n810's built-in one
Apr 21 14:17:21 <MangoFusion> X-Fade: fix in 10 seconds? which way are you holding it?
Apr 21 14:17:47 <X-Fade> MangoFusion: It uses agps. So it practically does a warm start.
Apr 21 14:18:02 <dragorn> mgedmin: I love that it HAS one.  I don't love the one it has. :P
Apr 21 14:18:24 <MangoFusion> mine tends to take minutes rather than seconds. though then again i usually don't have the maps open 24/7
Apr 21 14:18:43 <lardman> Setting up AGPS infrastructure (or piggybacking) is the sort of thing that would be interesting to do if we had some more info about whether we could even achieve the end goal
Apr 21 14:19:34 <X-Fade> lardman: The symbian team already does it, the maemo team would need to implement the same.
Apr 21 14:19:48 <mgedmin> how?  bluetooth to a phone?
Apr 21 14:19:56 <mgedmin> AGPS needs GSM or equivalent
Apr 21 14:20:01 <mgedmin> hm, AGPS over Internet?
Apr 21 14:20:03 <lardman> GPRS message from the base station probably
Apr 21 14:20:50 <lardman> fed by that supl.nokia.org server (iirc)
Apr 21 14:20:54 <X-Fade> mgedmin: geoclue could provide some info about your location. It could be used to lookup the info..
Apr 21 14:21:15 <lardman> X-Fade: the looking up is not the issue, it's how to communicate that with the AGPS chip
Apr 21 14:21:36 <lardman> that's the sort of thing that Nokia could give us and people would enjoy (me at least) getting it to work
Apr 21 14:23:02 <X-Fade> lardman: I'm affaid that that info is only available under NDA from TI.
Apr 21 14:23:29 <lardman> in that case an interface could be provided presumably
Apr 21 14:23:30 <X-Fade> Nokia can't just give out this info. (Believe me, I tried to get it for you when I was at the office :)
Apr 21 14:23:36 <lardman> Thanks :)
Apr 21 14:26:36 <GeneralAntilles> New personal menu out.
Apr 21 14:26:42 <GeneralAntilles> Much more efficient.
Apr 21 14:27:10 <dragorn> putting the stupidity of NDAing functionality aside, this is something that should have had a dbus api or something so people could at least talk to that API
Apr 21 14:27:40 <hrw> re
Apr 21 14:28:01 <lardman> dragorn: yep, the problem of avoiding the NDAs is an interesting one
Apr 21 14:28:27 <zserfsnz> is someone aware of microB extensions for developers ?
Apr 21 14:28:46 <dragorn> lardman: Not really, they've been doing it on the other stuff (ie wireless).  People will still bitch, but all it would take is another nokia "we won't give you the source" binary with a dbus hook
Apr 21 14:29:07 <dragorn> lardman: send x.y.z dbus signal with guessed location to seed the agps
Apr 21 14:29:08 <X-Fade> dragorn: Yes, I agree. That is the best way to get around that.
Apr 21 14:29:30 <dragorn> lardman: then their own stuff, skyhook, whatever can use it
Apr 21 14:29:31 <lardman> dragorn: Yes, I didn't mean difficult, more that we need to somehow persuade Nokia that it's worth a small investment (time) on their part to make us happy & productive
Apr 21 14:29:56 <GeneralAntilles> Has anybody filed an enhancement request?
Apr 21 14:30:00 <lardman> yes
Apr 21 14:30:06 <GeneralAntilles> #?
Apr 21 14:30:08 <lardman> I'll find the bug number, hang on a tick
Apr 21 14:30:10 <dragorn> lardman: going back to, I get the impression there's like a dozen people at nokia who are really dedicated to the device, with no support from the company at large.
Apr 21 14:30:35 <lardman> 2890 for AGPS
Apr 21 14:30:57 <GeneralAntilles> Voted.
Apr 21 14:35:54 <lardman> I've added the interface thing explicitly
Apr 21 14:36:01 <lardman> to the bug that is
Apr 21 14:38:48 <GeneralAntilles> It's disturbing that the Vista theme has more downloads than mplayer on garage.
Apr 21 14:39:10 <lardman> I wonder if that's a problem with some of the enhancement requests; they are read as "some users want a complete solution, we can't do that (for whatever reason, probably time)", while in fact they mean "give us just enough info to do it ourselves, please"
Apr 21 14:39:14 <ImMelody> there's a vista theme?
Apr 21 14:39:15 <Navi> It's not disturbing :P
Apr 21 14:40:04 <ImMelody> I got NuvoPearl and haven't looked at themes since
Apr 21 14:40:27 <GeneralAntilles> My personal finding has been that all of the 3rd party themes pretty much suck.
Apr 21 14:40:32 <GeneralAntilles> Minus LCARS, of course.
Apr 21 14:40:37 <GeneralAntilles> But I can't be seen with that in public.
Apr 21 14:40:40 <GeneralAntilles> Echo is the way for me.
Apr 21 14:40:56 <ImMelody> I like the look of Nuvo, except they did a sucky job with arrows
Apr 21 14:41:04 <Navi> I like NuvoClear
Apr 21 14:41:24 <Navi> but it needs some gtk widget drop-ins
Apr 21 14:41:31 <ImMelody> The arrows to scroll bookmarks just look cheap considering
Apr 21 14:41:33 <Navi> buttons don't fit very well
Apr 21 14:59:03 <lopz> hola
Apr 21 15:02:27 <denny> heyla
Apr 21 15:03:24 <denny> trying to install the rtcomm thing, but I'm getting the 'contains updates to packages installed from a diff source, likely to harm system' error.  I've gone into red pill mode and I get the same error but with a 'continue anyway' button, which I'm kind of scared of... any thoughts?
Apr 21 15:05:02 <GeneralAntilles> http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/#install2
Apr 21 15:05:06 <GeneralAntilles> Follow those instructions.
Apr 21 15:05:34 <denny> that's what I was doing
Apr 21 15:06:02 <denny> stage 4 gives me the 'likely to harm your system' error
Apr 21 15:06:16 <hrw> use terminal not appmanager?
Apr 21 15:06:16 <GeneralAntilles> That's just Application manager being stupid.
Apr 21 15:06:26 <denny> so it's safe to continue?
Apr 21 15:06:36 <denny> for 'hey, it's only a toy anyway' values of safe, at least  :)
Apr 21 15:07:15 <aquatix> denny: it might blow up your house
Apr 21 15:07:16 <denny> GeneralAntilles: you've done this?
Apr 21 15:07:26 <aquatix> chances aren't that large though
Apr 21 15:07:38 <denny> aquatix: if I've still got one... some guys were there today installing a ventilation system
Apr 21 15:07:52 <denny> apparently I have shiny new holes in my walls  o.O
Apr 21 15:07:57 <GeneralAntilles> It's been a while since I installed the beta.
Apr 21 15:07:59 <aquatix> it worked fine here btw
Apr 21 15:08:12 <GeneralAntilles> I just use the Collabora telepathy extensions for AIM support.
Apr 21 15:08:25 <aquatix> denny: that's the idea of ventilation right? ;)
Apr 21 15:08:34 <denny> pretty much, yeah
Apr 21 15:09:18 <GeneralAntilles> Usually not the walls, though. :P
Apr 21 15:09:34 <denny> "any hole's a goal", as the saying goes
Apr 21 15:10:33 <aquatix> sounds rounchy
Apr 21 15:10:37 <aquatix> *raunchy
Apr 21 15:10:41 <zuh> denny: I hope you are talking about golf, not sex
Apr 21 15:10:45 <aquatix> ghehe
Apr 21 15:11:24 <denny> zuh: tetris  ;)
Apr 21 15:11:36 <aquatix> denny: riiight
Apr 21 15:11:38 <denny> I worked out a complete philosophy of life based on tetris once...
Apr 21 15:11:43 <aquatix> haha
Apr 21 15:11:45 <denny> 1. if it fits in the hole, stick it in the hole
Apr 21 15:11:52 <denny> 2. if it doesn't fit in the hole, try a different angle
Apr 21 15:11:57 <denny> 2. if it still doesn't fit, try a different hole
Apr 21 15:12:01 <denny> uh, 3
Apr 21 15:12:11 <denny> 4. if it /still/ doesn't fit, just ram it in the hole anyway
Apr 21 15:12:19 <denny> I think that was it.
Apr 21 15:12:22 <hrw> can someone fix repository.maemo.org server?
Apr 21 15:12:23 <aquatix> does it involve hammers?
Apr 21 15:12:35 <denny> someone quotefile those two lines  ;)
Apr 21 15:13:00 <hrw> it has broken directory listings - no possibility to change ordering, default ordering is by date which is insane
Apr 21 15:18:32 <X-Fade> hrw: What is the problem?
Apr 21 15:19:14 <hrw> X-Fade: it has broken directory listings - no possibility to change ordering, default ordering is by date which is insane
Apr 21 15:23:04 <cyberholic> Hi veryone :)
Apr 21 15:29:33 * unixSnob searches for a GPS tracking app
Apr 21 15:29:54 * unixSnob finds nothing for maemo
Apr 21 15:30:02 <GeneralAntilles> "tracking"?
Apr 21 15:30:56 <unixSnob> I want to be able to have my gps position published, in real-time, on the web or the like
Apr 21 15:31:11 <GeneralAntilles> gpsd + an http server
Apr 21 15:31:14 <GeneralAntilles> Should be damn simple.
Apr 21 15:31:34 <GeneralAntilles> Heck, I'm fairly certain somebody has done it.
Apr 21 15:31:39 <unixSnob> cool.. i'll check it out
Apr 21 15:32:08 <unixSnob> can gpsd access the gps device at the same time as another app (like mapper)?
Apr 21 15:33:04 <mgedmin> unixSnob: I think yes, if both use libgpsbt/libgpsmgr
Apr 21 15:33:12 <GeneralAntilles> Of course
Apr 21 15:33:16 <GeneralAntilles> That's purpose
Apr 21 15:33:25 <GeneralAntilles> to provide the gps data to multiple applications and devices. ;)
Apr 21 15:33:27 <RST38h> web server may not be such a good idea
Apr 21 15:33:30 <unixSnob> i'll probably try to get a little more elaborate.. and try to immitate functionality of http://www.findmespot.com/Home.aspx
Apr 21 15:33:54 <unixSnob> I'd like non-technical users to be able to track me.. and perhaps see my position on a google map
Apr 21 15:33:56 <RST38h> don't want to run it on the tablet, would probably want to make tablet contact stationary web server by http and upload positions
Apr 21 15:34:06 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, actually.
Apr 21 15:34:14 <GeneralAntilles> Interfacing with gpsd over the net would be a better idea.
Apr 21 15:34:27 <GeneralAntilles> Send the gpsd info to a remote webserver.
Apr 21 15:34:44 <RST38h> there may be a service like this already
Apr 21 15:34:55 <RST38h> Nokia's Personal Web Server comes to mind
Apr 21 15:36:03 <anidel> going home.. bye bye guys
Apr 21 15:36:11 <unixSnob> is nokia's service GPS smart?  Eg. I just send it position, and it puts it on a map for visitors?
Apr 21 15:38:17 <RST38h> unix: I do not know what they are currently doing. Just know that they had a feature like that in development
Apr 21 15:38:49 <chrisak> nothing on the forum yet; did the modest update/fix work for anyone?
Apr 21 15:40:03 <GeneralAntilles> Is it available yet?
Apr 21 15:40:20 <smackpotato> i want to connect a serail terminal over bluetooth over bluetooth can anyone point me in the right direction
Apr 21 15:40:53 <RST38h> http://www.gps-practice-and-fun.com/other-gps-tracking.html
Apr 21 15:40:56 <RST38h> Check out these
Apr 21 15:41:01 <chrisak> just updated via app manager about 15 min ago.  now trying fresh install instead of update
Apr 21 15:41:20 <RST38h> Modest breaks backup/restore process.
Apr 21 15:41:55 <RST38h> One of its XML config files contains "@" characters for email addresses and Nokia Backup dies on these
Apr 21 15:42:39 <||cw> smackpotato: pair the rfcomms and connect
Apr 21 15:44:10 <smackpotato> is that simple
Apr 21 15:44:48 <cyberholic> ok, i left my girlfriend and quit my job this morning. What for? I am going to start a rock career! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4356965146143564549&hl=en
Apr 21 15:44:59 <||cw> never tried, not sure what you'd connect the rfcomm to on the host though
Apr 21 15:45:10 <||cw> unless it's a real serial port or something
Apr 21 15:45:37 <MangoFusion> cyberholic: bet you can't press two
Apr 21 15:45:42 <MangoFusion> at once
Apr 21 15:45:47 <MangoFusion> drums that is
Apr 21 15:45:50 <X-Fade> hrw: Yeah, I had noticed the same problem. I don't have access to that machine, but will contact the one responsible for it.
Apr 21 15:45:51 <MangoFusion> ;)
Apr 21 15:45:53 <chrisak>  rats, same connection error as prev version (modest)
Apr 21 15:45:59 <cyberholic> Mango: lol. i thought you meant my girlfriend(s) :)
Apr 21 15:46:10 <smackpotato> ill read some more
Apr 21 15:46:43 <cyberholic> i was sweating after this 2 minutes! *lol*
Apr 21 15:47:25 <RST38h> Motorola has invested in mobile virtualisation provider VirtualLogix, creating the possibility of a handset that can switch between different OSs almost as quickly as Motorola declares support for them.
Apr 21 15:47:35 <RST38h> Umgh.
Apr 21 15:47:47 <iDS> Nokia N880 is on the way :D
Apr 21 15:48:03 <chrisak> modest prob jusst confirmed on itt; guess wait for "18" :)
Apr 21 15:48:25 <GeneralAntilles> It works fine.
Apr 21 15:48:37 <GeneralAntilles> W17 works fine for me
Apr 21 15:48:42 <GeneralAntilles> Not sure what brontide's issue is.
Apr 21 15:50:26 <chrisak> odd, wonder what i'm doing wrong on my end :\
Apr 21 15:52:09 <hrw> X-Fade: thx
Apr 21 15:56:52 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Modest isn't fixed for me too.
Apr 21 15:57:00 <GeneralAntilles> Weirdness
Apr 21 15:57:07 <X-Fade> I still have the wrong port error..
Apr 21 15:57:54 <chrisak> antilles, just to confirm, your .17 can connect to gmail imap?
Apr 21 15:57:55 <X-Fade> Rebooted 3 times, changed server settings to imap tls, reboot, back to imaps..
Apr 21 15:58:02 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, works fine.
Apr 21 16:00:22 <iDS> what are tv tools for n800?
Apr 21 16:00:30 <cyberholic> myth i think.
Apr 21 16:01:15 <iDS> and?
Apr 21 16:01:25 <iDS> where can i find  myth?
Apr 21 16:01:35 <cyberholic> well... what exactly do you want? have you tried the download section at maemo.org ?
Apr 21 16:02:12 <iDS> cyberholic yes couldn't find it
Apr 21 16:02:22 <cyberholic> And the garage?
Apr 21 16:02:27 <GeneralAntilles> It's in Extras, I believe.
Apr 21 16:02:32 <iDS> tnx
Apr 21 16:02:55 <iDS> by the way where is the folder of my n800 internet downlod?
Apr 21 16:07:57 <iDS> https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mtv/  here is it?
Apr 21 16:08:40 <hrw|gone> bye
Apr 21 16:10:27 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, also works fine with a clean OS2008 install.
Apr 21 16:27:36 <solmumaha> anyone know how to make hildon-application-manager to install a local package? via dbus or commandline. i can't seem to find proper documentation for that, they only mention .install files and dbus-monitor didn't help
Apr 21 16:29:42 <derf> Why not just use dpkg -i
Apr 21 16:34:39 <solmumaha> it's for an application and dpkg would require root privileges
Apr 21 16:40:15 <bedboi> hi there.
Apr 21 16:51:47 <Khertan_on_n810> Hi!
Apr 21 16:52:08 <qwerty12> Hello, new pypackager seems nice :)
Apr 21 16:52:38 <Khertan_on_n810> Thx
Apr 21 16:52:51 <Khertan_on_n810> do u have try it ?
Apr 21 16:53:10 <Khertan_on_n810> as i need to explain how it works
Apr 21 16:53:11 <qwerty12> Not yet I haven't, I just got back from a day out and I'm quite tired actually >.<
Apr 21 16:53:45 <Khertan_on_n810> and make a documentation on packages upload process
Apr 21 16:54:03 <Khertan_on_n810> it s not very easy the first time
Apr 21 16:54:36 <Khertan_on_n810> obtain a maemo repository account make a gpg sign key
Apr 21 16:55:01 <qwerty12> For me, I don't upload anything to any repos. Any quick and rubbish ports I make, I just mediafire them and place the links on ITT :)
Apr 21 16:55:26 <Khertan_on_n810> :)
Apr 21 16:55:44 <Khertan_on_n810> so i don t know your port :)
Apr 21 16:56:04 <Khertan_on_n810> i read less and less itt
Apr 21 16:56:12 <qwerty12> Hehe, nothing special what I've done :)
Apr 21 16:57:04 <Khertan_on_n810> reading that ubuntu is a great thing for nit ...make me anxious for the future ...
Apr 21 16:57:39 <Khertan_on_n810> so i only post about my soft and answer to user having problem with my soft
Apr 21 16:57:50 <qwerty12> I love Ubuntu, I use it as my main distro but I don't think it's really designed for the N8*0's. I think the packages available will be great though.
Apr 21 16:59:16 <Khertan_on_n810> i don t use it since the auto update feature kill the kernel and rescue kernel 3 times
Apr 21 16:59:39 <Khertan_on_n810> i prefer less update but more stable process
Apr 21 17:00:03 <Khertan_on_n810> it s why i use debian
Apr 21 17:00:16 <qwerty12> That's bad luck. My kernel's been updated a lot of times but it still works, the only thing that got killed for me is usbnet so I can't use N800 in usbnetworking mode anymore.
Apr 21 17:00:22 <qwerty12> Ah, debian seems great too.
Apr 21 17:00:47 <GeneralAntilles> I don't think anybody with any real knowledge has actually contributed anything useful to the Ubuntu discussion so far.
Apr 21 17:00:53 <Khertan_on_n810> and i think in future i ll give a try to GreenOS
Apr 21 17:01:01 <GeneralAntilles> Mostly it just seems to be a lot of idiocy and misunderstanding.
Apr 21 17:01:32 <Khertan_on_n810> GA > right ...
Apr 21 17:01:47 <Khertan_on_n810> and it s
Apr 21 17:01:52 <GeneralAntilles> Thoughtfix's latest posts have been more idiocy. <_<
Apr 21 17:02:02 <Khertan_on_n810> more and more true for many itt topics
Apr 21 17:02:10 <GeneralAntilles> Sadly
Apr 21 17:02:16 <GeneralAntilles> It's been going downhill for a while, though.
Apr 21 17:02:28 * Khertan_on_n810 don t rea anymore thoughtfix
Apr 21 17:04:48 <qwerty12> I can't decide whether this will be a good thing or a bad thing. More packages is always good but it means that Maemo may get less developers. If that PDF from the Mojo project is anything to do on, less developers doesn't sound good. At the end of the day, Maemo is designed for Internet tablets and the like and Ubuntu is for desktops. Even Ubuntu Mobile edition has hildon as the gui.
Apr 21 17:05:48 <GeneralAntilles> Like I said, I haven't seen any meaningful or useful analysis of it so far.
Apr 21 17:05:51 <Khertan_on_n810> an other thing that irritate me on itt is the war about qt over gtk
Apr 21 17:06:01 <Khertan_on_n810> as i don t like qt :)
Apr 21 17:06:17 <GeneralAntilles> One thing I _don't_ think will be happening is Nokia moving to just bundling Ubuntu
Apr 21 17:06:21 <GeneralAntilles> Since that just plain can't work.
Apr 21 17:06:29 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, +1
Apr 21 17:06:51 <GeneralAntilles> Way too much stupidity on ITT. <_<
Apr 21 17:07:06 <Khertan_on_n810> ga + 1
Apr 21 17:07:31 <GeneralAntilles> Reading back through those old technut threads . . .
Apr 21 17:07:37 <qwerty12> Anyone know any good hex editors for Linux? All the ones I found suck. I like Hex Workshop and WinHex in windows.
Apr 21 17:07:40 <GeneralAntilles> absolutely nothing useful came out of all that talk.
Apr 21 17:08:02 <Khertan_on_n810> ga + 1 again
Apr 21 17:12:09 <Khertan_on_n810> ga > do u still use my home* applet ?
Apr 21 17:12:25 <GeneralAntilles> Just internal temperature for now.
Apr 21 17:12:32 <Khertan_on_n810> do u have notice battery drain ?
Apr 21 17:12:41 <GeneralAntilles> Which I'd still like a F/C switch for :D
Apr 21 17:12:44 <gribouille> Incredible : the command 'dpkg -L dbus' lists the file /usr/share/man/man1/dbus-send.1.gz, but the file does'nt exist !
Apr 21 17:12:57 <qwerty12> gribouille, docpurge?
Apr 21 17:13:00 <GeneralAntilles> ^
Apr 21 17:13:06 <Khertan_on_n810> :)
Apr 21 17:13:08 <GeneralAntilles> No documentation is included.
Apr 21 17:13:09 <GeneralAntilles> Saves space.
Apr 21 17:13:23 <GeneralAntilles> johnx recommended a fortune applet, Khertan_on_n810. :D
Apr 21 17:13:46 <qwerty12> That would be fun, does fortune exist for OS2007/8?
Apr 21 17:13:55 <GeneralAntilles> Dunno
Apr 21 17:14:05 <GeneralAntilles> But it wouldn't be particularly difficult to package.
Apr 21 17:14:30 <qwerty12> Nope, cant find it on my tablet. I'll see if I can do it now.
Apr 21 17:14:39 <mgedmin> hmm, fortune home applet
Apr 21 17:14:56 <Khertan_on_n810> lol
Apr 21 17:15:01 <Khertan_on_n810> so why not
Apr 21 17:15:03 <Khertan_on_n810> :)
Apr 21 17:15:29 <Khertan_on_n810> once someone can compile it
Apr 21 17:15:34 <Khertan_on_n810> for maemo
Apr 21 17:15:41 <Khertan_on_n810> i ll do it :)
Apr 21 17:15:44 <qwerty12> I'll go start? But which version lol
Apr 21 17:15:54 <qwerty12> I'm leaning towards the debian repos
Apr 21 17:15:57 <Khertan_on_n810> the last one ? ;)
Apr 21 17:16:22 <qwerty12> From what I read, it varies on distro's, *nix's etc
Apr 21 17:16:49 <GeneralAntilles> Just stick to the Debian stuff. :P
Apr 21 17:17:06 <qwerty12> Fortune-mod it is :P
Apr 21 17:17:22 <GeneralAntilles> Although, I suppose you should make sure it can limit the size.
Apr 21 17:17:30 <GeneralAntilles> As a number of them are rather large.
Apr 21 17:17:52 <qwerty12> Hmm, why don't we all try? I suckzors :p
Apr 21 17:18:03 <Khertan_on_n810> lol
Apr 21 17:18:31 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, if you do get the initfs logo changed, let me know.
Apr 21 17:19:06 <GeneralAntilles> So much more badass than the stupid Nokia hands -> http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/err.zip :D
Apr 21 17:19:27 <qwerty12> lol
Apr 21 17:19:37 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, I'd like to try but I cannot figure out what that format is. I think it's some sort of binary format due to ash trying to exec it once.
Apr 21 17:19:39 <GeneralAntilles> It'd also be nice to change the background color to black rather than white, too.
Apr 21 17:20:06 <GeneralAntilles> Since the slow image redraw rate becomes quite apparent when the white blocks show up.
Apr 21 17:20:44 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, Not sure about the image (but I guess it can be done with a new logo) but bootmenu.sh can be changed to swap the colours around.
Apr 21 17:20:53 <GeneralAntilles> orly?
Apr 21 17:21:06 <GeneralAntilles> Blue-on-black to match the images would be nice.
Apr 21 17:21:27 <Khertan_on_n810> connection will drop
Apr 21 17:21:27 <Khertan_on_n810> i unter subway
Apr 21 17:21:32 <WorkingOnWise> is there any way to get full flash working in the built in browser, or is there minefield browser now that works properly on the N800? his is for OS 2008.
Apr 21 17:21:45 <GeneralAntilles> We have full flash on the built-in browser.
Apr 21 17:21:47 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, Yeah the colours are in hex, supplied on the command line. I'll give it a go later, I've been reflashing initfs for most of the day so I don't really mind another go.
Apr 21 17:22:04 <GeneralAntilles> I haven't played with the initfs much
Apr 21 17:22:10 <GeneralAntilles> I assume I can change it on a booted system?
Apr 21 17:22:27 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, no, the initfs is mounted read only.
Apr 21 17:23:11 <GeneralAntilles> Mount it somewhere else or change it in fanoush's flasher and reflash?
Apr 21 17:23:12 <qwerty12> with initfs flasher, it can be done though if you reflash initfs.
Apr 21 17:23:27 <qwerty12> Change it in fanoush's flasher.
Apr 21 17:23:35 <WorkingOnWise> nope. If I go to iscrybe.com with the built in browser and hit the login lin I see no login dialog. If I go there with minefield, I can log in but without the menus and popup keyboard working right it is not useable.
Apr 21 17:23:47 <qwerty12> Before it asks to flash bootmenu.conf, open a new terminal and cd to initfs_flasher and cd to initfs in that.
Apr 21 17:23:48 <GeneralAntilles> Erm, is flash turned on?
Apr 21 17:23:56 <GeneralAntilles> We have full Flash 9 with MicroB
Apr 21 17:24:02 <GeneralAntilles> The tablets have ALWAYS had full Flash.
Apr 21 17:24:22 <GeneralAntilles> Are you sure it's Flash and not some AJAX messiness?
Apr 21 17:24:57 <WorkingOnWise> GeneralAntilles: that could be. iscrybe is a very ajax heavy site
Apr 21 17:26:10 <WorkingOnWise> so is there some way to get a more tables friendly minefield? Or ajax friendly builtin browser?
Apr 21 17:26:26 <WorkingOnWise> tables=tablet
Apr 21 17:27:06 <GeneralAntilles> You could build the MicroB svn
Apr 21 17:27:15 <qwerty12> Hehe someone else can do fortune-mod :P. It needs librecode. GeneralAntilles, I'll work on the black bootmenu.
Apr 21 17:27:16 <GeneralAntilles> Though I've yet to hear of anybody having success there.
Apr 21 17:27:25 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Apr 21 17:29:10 <WorkingOnWise> so I will have to wait.... iscrybe is the perfect planner for the IT too!
Apr 21 17:38:16 <gribouille> does hildon support drag and drop ?
Apr 21 17:38:27 <GeneralAntilles> Yes.
Apr 21 17:39:21 <gribouille> something I find extremely frustrating is the absence of shortcuts for applications
Apr 21 17:39:42 <GeneralAntilles> "shortcuts"?
Apr 21 17:39:51 <Khertan_on_n810> re
Apr 21 17:40:06 <Khertan_on_n810> still no port of fortune yet ?
Apr 21 17:40:14 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12 gave up.
Apr 21 17:40:39 <Khertan_on_n810> (ps : i ve never use it)
Apr 21 17:41:20 <Khertan_on_n810> the homefortune applet is near ready :)
Apr 21 17:41:37 <gribouille> GeneralAntilles, if there is an app you use often, it is better to simply click on a button to laounch instead of going through the menu hierarchy
Apr 21 17:41:51 <GeneralAntilles> Install Personal Menu, IDEA or simplelauncher then. ;)
Apr 21 17:42:09 <Khertan_on_n810> i ven t still found how to make prefs panel for applet in python ...pfff
Apr 21 17:42:42 <qwerty12> Khertan_on_n810, you ported fortune? :)
Apr 21 17:42:57 <gribouille> GeneralAntilles, which one is the best ?
Apr 21 17:43:00 <Khertan_on_n810> no i  m waiting your port
Apr 21 17:43:20 <GeneralAntilles> Probably simple launcher
Apr 21 17:43:23 <qwerty12> Khertan_on_n810, I had to give up. I'm doing something else ATM. Sorry.
Apr 21 17:43:29 <GeneralAntilles> Personal Menu accomplishes a slightly different goal
Apr 21 17:43:32 <GeneralAntilles> Worth installing, too.
Apr 21 17:43:33 <Khertan_on_n810> no prob
Apr 21 17:43:35 <fysa> any ReadBurner users?
Apr 21 17:43:52 <fysa> they seem to support Google Reader somehow now, with a possibly more microb-friendly interface.
Apr 21 17:44:33 <fysa> oh, nevermind, it's silly.
Apr 21 17:44:40 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, I've made modifications to bootmenu.sh, after the reboot to restore original inifs, I'm gonna try the white text on black background out.
Apr 21 17:47:14 <qwerty12> Khertan_on_n810, I'll try fortune again after I've done this. Meanwhile, someone please port fortune, would save time (and I'm not guaranteed to even make a working port)
Apr 21 17:48:19 * GeneralAntilles begins prodding qwerty12 with a sharpened stick.
Apr 21 17:48:30 <qwerty12> OUCH
Apr 21 17:53:54 <qwerty12> fook, I've half done it. I took the lazy way out with find and replace. Here's what I got so far. I need to finish this off. http://i25.tinypic.com/2u40hfa.jpg
Apr 21 17:54:22 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Apr 21 17:54:48 <Khertan_on_n810> grrrr ratp and sncf reclaim now that we use their stupid navigo pass but can t deliver it outside idf !!!
Apr 21 17:55:04 <qwerty12> sncf is some French thing right?
Apr 21 17:55:21 <Khertan_on_n810> right a stupid thing !
Apr 21 17:55:51 <Khertan_on_n810> maybe the leader in stupidity !
Apr 21 17:56:02 <Khertan_on_n810> and worst useable site !
Apr 21 17:56:27 <GeneralAntilles> Woo stupid French things.
Apr 21 17:59:00 <qwerty12> Okay, qwerty12 , think in opposites. I've got the boot menu options sorted out in theory. Now it's time to see if the clear function of text2screen lets you choose a background colour.
Apr 21 18:00:30 <WorkingOnWise> has anyone got a clue how to get Opera 8 from OS2007 onto OS2008? I really need an AJAX capable browser that I can use on the IT.
Apr 21 18:00:56 <Khertan_on_n810> microb is ajax enabled
Apr 21 18:01:00 <qwerty12> WorkingOnWise, it would probably depend on Bora specific libs.
Apr 21 18:01:12 <WorkingOnWise> that would get messy fast!
Apr 21 18:01:12 <gribouille> what other desktop applets are highly recommanded ?
Apr 21 18:01:28 <Khertan_on_n810> not mine :)
Apr 21 18:01:39 <qwerty12> WorkingOnWise, if you have linux on desktop computer, a good place to start is mounting the bora rootfs and reading the dpkg list for the opera packages.
Apr 21 18:01:50 <qwerty12> but the final result probably wouldn't work.
Apr 21 18:02:04 <GeneralAntilles> Opera is the absolute WORST choice for AJAX
Apr 21 18:02:21 <Khertan_on_n810> gribouille > what applet do u need ? maybe i can do it ...
Apr 21 18:03:04 <GeneralAntilles> Besides, you'd be better served investing time into getting the svn compiled than trying to port the (closed) Opera.
Apr 21 18:03:17 <gribouille> I need an applet that shows the system parameters like memory usage, IP address, free storage, etc
Apr 21 18:03:33 <Khertan_on_n810> it s already available
Apr 21 18:03:35 <GeneralAntilles> gribouille, they're all in Extras-devel.
Apr 21 18:04:01 <Khertan_on_n810> take a look on maemo.org downloads
Apr 21 18:04:41 <WorkingOnWise> well I have a site I want to use, iscrybe.com, that uses flash and ajax. I cant even log in with microb. I can with minefield but between improper textbox/keyboard popup and not being able to go full screen, minefield isnt reasonable yet. I guess I dont understand why a browser that has full flash and ajax abilities cand do one or the other or both properly, but minefield can.....
Apr 21 18:04:46 <gribouille> GeneralAntilles, I have one for each paramter, but I need one with all the parameters
Apr 21 18:04:56 <GeneralAntilles> Why?
Apr 21 18:05:00 <Khertan_on_n810> why ?
Apr 21 18:05:07 <GeneralAntilles> Just arrange all the little ones to look like one big one.
Apr 21 18:05:29 <qwerty12> Meh, I think Khertan_on_n810 got it right with separate applets. I don't need every one of them.
Apr 21 18:05:44 <GeneralAntilles> WorkingOnWise, because Chinook MicroB is built from a much older Gecko snapshot.
Apr 21 18:05:50 <GeneralAntilles> Diablo MicroB will bring it up to date.
Apr 21 18:06:30 <gribouille> GeneralAntilles, because I don't need to see all the parameters at once. the applets I have are scattered and take mutch place for little fuctionnality
Apr 21 18:06:49 <Khertan_on_n810> ouch deezer work on microb ! great !
Apr 21 18:06:50 <GeneralAntilles> So, what, you want something scrollable or somesuch?
Apr 21 18:07:12 <WorkingOnWise> Diablo is the next OS?
Apr 21 18:07:16 <GeneralAntilles> Yes.
Apr 21 18:07:20 <GeneralAntilles> Due "Q2 2008"
Apr 21 18:08:05 <WorkingOnWise> how good is Nokia at keeping their timelines? please let it be better that Motorola and MS.....
Apr 21 18:08:26 <qwerty12> Meh, Motorola and MS both suck.
Apr 21 18:08:53 <Khertan_on_n810> gribouille > i ll make a big one when i ll be able to make pref panel for it ... so u can choose what  want
Apr 21 18:08:55 <WorkingOnWise> lol...and they cand use a calendar at ALL!!
Apr 21 18:09:16 <Khertan_on_n810> but at this time i ll keep it separate
Apr 21 18:09:42 <GeneralAntilles> WorkingOnWise, if there's a delay, it's only on the scale a few weeks at most.
Apr 21 18:09:54 <Khertan_on_n810> but if u want a big one u still can edit the code and merge all. it s can be done easily
Apr 21 18:10:26 <gribouille> Khertan_on_n810, ok
Apr 21 18:10:41 <Khertan_on_n810> get_ip is the function to edit
Apr 21 18:10:59 <Khertan_on_n810> it s return the text to be display
Apr 21 18:11:14 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, This is my second go. Wish me luck :/. my battery is about to die soon. off the fetch the charger from upstairs.
Apr 21 18:13:24 <WorkingOnWise> well with that info I guess I'll just sit patiently waiting for Diablo, expecting it to solve all the worlds problems :D
Apr 21 18:13:30 <Khertan_on_n810> i don t understand why so many user like gpe tasks and gpe dates .... it s useless
Apr 21 18:13:45 <WorkingOnWise> Khertan_on_n810: i SO agree!
Apr 21 18:13:59 <qwerty12> I just like GPE Todo with GPE Summary because then I can put "notes on the desktop"
Apr 21 18:14:13 <Khertan_on_n810> hum ...
Apr 21 18:14:13 <GeneralAntilles> Khertan_on_n810, have you tried Pimlico?
Apr 21 18:14:22 <Khertan_on_n810> ga > yes
Apr 21 18:14:30 <Khertan_on_n810> but can t sync it
Apr 21 18:15:00 <Khertan_on_n810> and it s a bit hard to use whitout stylus
Apr 21 18:15:22 <Khertan_on_n810> and more hard to access data in python to sync it
Apr 21 18:15:39 <Khertan_on_n810> but pimlico task is a great thing.
Apr 21 18:15:48 <Khertan_on_n810> not agenda ...
Apr 21 18:16:13 <Khertan_on_n810> pimlico tasks need an home applet :)
Apr 21 18:16:30 <Khertan_on_n810> but python binding isn't finish
Apr 21 18:17:53 <qwerty12> Arg, my N800 sucks :(, I just connected usb cable to computer and I get USB device not supported :(
Apr 21 18:18:17 <MangoFusion> i have yet to find a decent pim suite for a tablet
Apr 21 18:19:07 <Khertan_on_n810> i m sometimes working on making a good one ... by modifying winzig to be really useable without stylus
Apr 21 18:19:30 <Khertan_on_n810> and  make it simple
Apr 21 18:19:46 <Khertan_on_n810> at this time the agenda is almost done
Apr 21 18:19:53 <Khertan_on_n810> but there is no alert
Apr 21 18:20:49 <Khertan_on_n810> and i m still have problem with this stupid hildon widget that have only one signal : 'error'
Apr 21 18:21:50 <Khertan_on_n810> is there a way to display a picture in background of gtk.window ?
Apr 21 18:22:35 <pupnik> one would hope so
Apr 21 18:22:50 <Khertan_on_n810> ?
Apr 21 18:23:20 <pupnik> maybe it's related to theming and overrides
Apr 21 18:24:03 <pupnik> inz: you know anything about framebuffer? :)
Apr 21 18:25:02 <pupnik> this should be running much faster than it is http://pupnik.de/SDL_scrolly_sync.tgz  only takes 0-0.5% cpu (depending on nice level)
Apr 21 18:26:22 <gribouille> could domeone tell me what homenetstats does ?
Apr 21 18:27:08 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, Got it! The boot options could do with some fixing however but I cannot not be officially bothered :P. http://i32.tinypic.com/nq5z0w.jpg. Also linuxrc will need a tweak, I'll look into it.
Apr 21 18:27:27 <GeneralAntilles> Cool
Apr 21 18:28:37 <GeneralAntilles> OK, I'm starting a wiki article on Modest.
Apr 21 18:29:33 <gribouille> could domeone tell me what homenetstats is meant to do ?
Apr 21 18:29:57 <RST38h> pupnik: you were the one who wanted last directory saved in vgba?
Apr 21 18:30:22 <pupnik> hi RST38h yeah i think that'd be a good feature
Apr 21 18:30:59 <RST38h> pupnik: Done
Apr 21 18:31:20 <pupnik> cool :)  Thank you sir!
Apr 21 18:31:39 <RST38h> pupnik: will be out with the next release. BTW, I am also going to release Maemo version of EMULib in a few days
Apr 21 18:31:39 <Khertan_on_n810> bye
Apr 21 18:31:45 <qwerty12> Bye Khertan_on_n810
Apr 21 18:31:51 <RST38h> Maybe it will be of some help porting other stuff
Apr 21 18:31:52 <pupnik> RST38h: you might be interested in that last link i posted
Apr 21 18:31:56 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, Arg, linuxrc will take some modding. I'll start on that now.
Apr 21 18:31:57 <RST38h> Yep
Apr 21 18:32:24 <RST38h> I have added x3 maginfication to EMULib but did not try integrating FB support yet
Apr 21 18:32:27 <lcuk> gribouille, you should have asked khertan_on_810 - he hosts homenetstats
Apr 21 18:32:33 <RST38h> Still using GtkImage
Apr 21 18:32:45 <lcuk> i have no idea what it does
Apr 21 18:33:31 * lcuk gets a lemsip
Apr 21 18:33:37 <pupnik> yes i need to do tests using GtkImage vs SDL_UpdateRect
Apr 21 18:34:25 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm . . . somebody want to get me a fullsize screenshot of Modest?
Apr 21 18:34:31 <pupnik> or some thing else.  It looks like there i'm not getting more than about 20fps real drawn frames in 256x240 @ 8bpp
Apr 21 18:34:32 <gribouille> is diff available for maemo ?
Apr 21 18:34:33 <GeneralAntilles> The ones on the website are small.
Apr 21 18:34:50 <RST38h> pupnik: Why the hell are you drawing at 8bpp?
Apr 21 18:35:06 <pupnik> because my emu only needs 8bpp.  SDL/X does the conversion
Apr 21 18:35:10 <lcuk> because most emulators expect a paletted surface
Apr 21 18:35:35 <lcuk> hi pupnik btw :)
Apr 21 18:35:42 <pupnik> servus lcuk
Apr 21 18:35:52 <pupnik> yes most emus actually
Apr 21 18:35:53 <lcuk> have you heard anything about tickets yet?
Apr 21 18:35:57 <djcb> GeneralAntilles: http://bp3.blogger.com/_kGFGcbwevHE/R17cA0q0h9I/AAAAAAAAANU/TynEOxfVi5U/s1600-h/modest3000.png
Apr 21 18:36:24 <pupnik> no and i'm not making any plans or adjustments until it happens, and my personal deadline is 3 weeks in advance
Apr 21 18:36:25 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, saw it on the site, not 800x480.
Apr 21 18:36:35 <GeneralAntilles> It'll work for now, though, you mind if I use it on wikipedia?
Apr 21 18:36:47 <djcb> no, that's fine
Apr 21 18:36:53 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks!
Apr 21 18:36:56 <MangoFusion> clipping text with "..." gets very annoying very quickly on a NIT :(
Apr 21 18:37:14 <lcuk> MangoFusion, what do you mea...
Apr 21 18:37:19 <GeneralAntilles> Does Modest have any sort of logo?
Apr 21 18:37:44 <MangoFusion> i mean it just clips just wh...
Apr 21 18:37:49 <djcb> hmmm
Apr 21 18:38:02 <lcuk> its damn annoying, especially when she is just takin...
Apr 21 18:38:08 <djcb> well, if anything it would be it's application manager icon
Apr 21 18:38:16 <djcb> ie. the envelop with the maemo-M
Apr 21 18:38:31 <djcb> GeneralAntilles: are you make a wikipedia entry?
Apr 21 18:38:32 <RST38h> pupnik: Ok, here is the deal
Apr 21 18:38:41 <GeneralAntilles> I'm putting together a draft at the moment.
Apr 21 18:38:44 <djcb> cool
Apr 21 18:38:53 <MangoFusion> e.g. when i am searching youtube f...
Apr 21 18:39:04 <RST38h> pupnik: The display is 16bpp, so whatever code you have drawing 8bpp bitmap will have to do color translation
Apr 21 18:39:13 <djcb> i'm sure i can get you some better shots tomorrow
Apr 21 18:39:20 <pupnik> yes RST38h
Apr 21 18:39:39 <RST38h> pupnik: Color translation 1) takes time and 2) prevents it from using hardware blitter (usually)
Apr 21 18:39:53 <GeneralAntilles> Cool, that'd be excellent.
Apr 21 18:39:54 <RST38h> pupnik: SO my suggestion is to draw at 16bpp
Apr 21 18:40:19 <RST38h> You will be moving twice as many bytes, true, but at least it will have a chance to make use of the hw
Apr 21 18:40:30 <pupnik> same thing happens.  the problem is with framebuffer sync and/or making sure that framebuffer controller does not try to update more than 256x240
Apr 21 18:40:37 <lcuk> RST38h, technically the 8bit palette stuff must be optimised somewhere within sdl since its used by lots of applications and will likely be better in the general case than a single specific fix that can be put in.    but i agree in principle what you are saying
Apr 21 18:40:58 <RST38h> lcuk: Generalized 8bit paletter will need table lookups
Apr 21 18:41:15 <RST38h> lcuk: And no matter how you optimize them, memory lookups suck on ARM
Apr 21 18:41:23 <lcuk> and how do you propose to do color lookups without a table?
Apr 21 18:41:37 <RST38h> Now, if you want to use a fixed 3:3:2 palette, there is a way...
Apr 21 18:41:48 <lcuk> you still need to say palette entry 27== RGB(65524)
Apr 21 18:41:58 <RST38h> You write a little piece of ARM code that shifts bits to make 5:6:5 colors
Apr 21 18:42:02 <lcuk> the table MUST exist somewhere
Apr 21 18:42:19 <pupnik> just recompiled it @ 16bpp jerkiness is slightly different looking at 19 and 21 fps
Apr 21 18:42:36 <pupnik> (it's changing one define - no big deal)
Apr 21 18:43:15 <RST38h> lcuk: the code looks longer and more complicated than table lookup, but because it is read in a pipeline it works faster
Apr 21 18:43:16 <lcuk> but in the specific case, doing SDL at 16bit is faster instantly because its not doing the conversion.  however the conversion is required.  i said this yesterday to pupnik then slept on it and the palette code is probably the simplest most general approach
Apr 21 18:43:52 <RST38h> lcuk: Heheh, you see, if his emulated system has 8bit video, it is probably palette based anyway ;)
Apr 21 18:43:58 <lcuk> but this isnt the problem as the arm can push many frames at this low resolution.  the actual problem is the tearing
Apr 21 18:44:11 <RST38h> And it does not matter whether those emulated palette entries are 8bit or 16bit ;)
Apr 21 18:44:23 <pupnik> you could compile the source and run it
Apr 21 18:44:33 <pupnik> 16bpp
Apr 21 18:44:34 <pupnik> Average FPS: 60.004
Apr 21 18:44:35 <RST38h> So, no, if he goes 16bpp, it will not cost him extra, most likely
Apr 21 18:44:35 <lcuk> back after tea
Apr 21 18:44:35 <pupnik> Underruns 122,  UPS: 2.166
Apr 21 18:44:44 <RST38h> pupnik: What was it at 8bpp?
Apr 21 18:44:57 <lcuk> palette entries ARE 16bit, there is a table of 256 of them
Apr 21 18:45:00 <pupnik> 16bpp
Apr 21 18:45:02 <pupnik> 16bpp
Apr 21 18:45:11 <RST38h> lcuk: Exactly.
Apr 21 18:45:38 <pupnik> but the framebuffer controller is clearly discarding updates
Apr 21 18:46:02 <pupnik> i have to read more about omapfb and the epson controller i guess
Apr 21 18:47:20 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, Got it perfectly! Only thing that looks weird is the boot menu options as from previous screenshot but everything except for initial nokia logo is black background with white text. I have to go now and school is starting tomorrow so I'll link to the modified files later tommorow.
Apr 21 18:59:20 <pupnik> RST38h: oh sorry i misread you it was 4 UPS at 8bpp.
Apr 21 18:59:51 <pupnik> so that's certainly interesting
Apr 21 19:01:33 <RST38h> UPS = ?
Apr 21 19:01:40 <pupnik> underruns per second
Apr 21 19:01:43 <RST38h> Oh
Apr 21 19:02:02 <pupnik> there is a predictive delay that hard-locks the main loop to X frames per second
Apr 21 19:02:04 <RST38h> You have just saved one color translation step, that's all :)
Apr 21 19:02:16 <pupnik> at fps above 50 i get underruns when using frame buffer tearsync
Apr 21 19:02:36 <pupnik> and the tearsync doesn't exactly tearsync very well
Apr 21 19:02:43 <pupnik> so i still don't know what's happening
Apr 21 19:03:00 <RST38h> Well, there is one more issue
Apr 21 19:03:24 <RST38h> Whatever goes on between OMAP and that Epson chip, the Epson chip still refreshes its display at 50-60Hz
Apr 21 19:04:10 <RST38h> So, whatever set of regions you are transferring to it, they can't transfer faster than that
Apr 21 19:06:12 <lcuk> thats resolution dependant.  if you are running at 800*480 you get 25fps.  lower resolutions==faster refresh.
Apr 21 19:08:02 <lcuk> (but you cannot transfer 16bit RGB data at that resolution from main memory to the LCD in that time)
Apr 21 19:13:16 <lcuk> documentation for the lcd is here: http://vdc.epson.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=189&Itemid=40
Apr 21 19:13:25 <lcuk> (i hope thats the right one now, ive got 2 sets)
Apr 21 19:13:47 <lcuk> there is a section indicating the frame rate calculations
Apr 21 19:14:01 <lcuk> (section 12 of the spec document)
Apr 21 19:16:27 <lcuk> so unless the scaling and display characteristics of SDL->x11->framebuffer are to always setup a full (800*480)screen no matter what selected required resolution is the maximum available refresh rate should change with resolution
Apr 21 19:16:35 * lcuk stops talking to himself now
Apr 21 19:19:25 <pupnik> i find nothing to disagree with
Apr 21 19:19:28 <pupnik> reading epson stuff
Apr 21 19:20:01 <pupnik> that's the correct one lcuk.  used in the n800 and n810 from what i've read
Apr 21 19:20:07 <pupnik> a different one is in the 770
Apr 21 19:21:22 <lcuk> the shame of all this is that the lcd should support full hardware double buffering, but because of the framebuffer interaction (and possibly other complications) we dont appear to have access to the interface
Apr 21 19:22:03 <pupnik> btw your bookreader looks 'finished' to me from a performance standpoint
Apr 21 19:22:28 <pupnik> now add pdf :P
Apr 21 19:22:30 * pupnik ducks
Apr 21 19:22:31 <lcuk> i agree :) im just putting in user options now and a file selector.
Apr 21 19:22:40 <lcuk> basic pdf should be doable and fast..
Apr 21 19:23:19 <lcuk> but i dont know enough about the format to handle bigger ones, maybe we could head towards integrating one of the other readers using liqbase to do the rendering
Apr 21 19:23:37 <chrisak> bookreader?  sounds interesting, will watch for it :)
Apr 21 19:23:39 <lcuk> there are other things which need handling first.
Apr 21 19:24:18 <lcuk> linuxtag invitation being one of them - i want something to take with me that makes me and others go "wow" and i think ive got enough as long as i dont get sidetracked
Apr 21 19:24:41 <lcuk> (which i have done for the last 2 days...)
Apr 21 19:26:29 <sbaturzio> Aloha!
Apr 21 19:27:06 <qwerty12_N800> Ok GeneralAntilles, I've got the files ready if you want them? File hoster or irc send?
Apr 21 19:27:18 <GeneralAntilles> DCC is flaky here.
Apr 21 19:27:22 <GeneralAntilles> Better put it up somewhere.
Apr 21 19:27:39 <lcuk> just try it once
Apr 21 19:27:43 <lcuk> you might surprise yourself
Apr 21 19:28:02 <qwerty12_N800> GeneralAntilles: ok, i only trust sendspace on tablet, mediafire crashes microb
Apr 21 19:28:45 * lcuk coughs
Apr 21 19:28:48 * lcuk splutters
Apr 21 19:31:14 * practisevoodoo mocks you all with his new n810
Apr 21 19:31:51 <lcuk> wimax edition?
Apr 21 19:31:55 <practisevoodoo> no
Apr 21 19:31:58 <lcuk> or did you buy an old one :P
Apr 21 19:32:25 <lcuk> (don't worry, my 810 is nearly new - ive had it since xmas)
Apr 21 19:32:33 <practisevoodoo> i wasnt willing to spend the extra for a wimax one, i have a 3g phone, im not in a wimax area
Apr 21 19:33:06 <lcuk> you like it though?
Apr 21 19:33:34 <GeneralAntilles> OK, here's my abortion of an article on Modest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modest_%28application%29
Apr 21 19:33:46 <qwerty12_N800> Muhaha, old but N800 does me fine :)
Apr 21 19:33:53 <practisevoodoo> so far, am currently just fighting it while i figure out how to get it to do what i want
Apr 21 19:34:15 <practisevoodoo> right now i am working on finding an easy way to see where all my space is going
Apr 21 19:34:24 <qwerty12_N800> GeneralAntilles: Nice article :)
Apr 21 19:34:33 <GeneralAntilles> It's a shit article! :P :D
Apr 21 19:35:15 <qwerty12_N800> Ok  shit :p but good for the 1st revision (spelling?) :D
Apr 21 19:35:26 <lcuk> :O:O general, you are getting bold
Apr 21 19:35:27 <lcuk> This software-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.
Apr 21 19:35:27 <lcuk> Bow before GeneralAntilles or you shall perish.
Apr 21 19:35:56 <lcuk> (i bet hes gone back and checked ;))
Apr 21 19:36:09 <GeneralAntilles> What, it is a stub. :P
Apr 21 19:36:50 <chrisak> size isn't important :D
Apr 21 19:36:53 <qwerty12_N800> Stud eh?
Apr 21 19:37:43 <GeneralAntilles> If somebody wants to flesh out the history section to a point where it's not entirely embarrassing. . . .
Apr 21 19:37:50 <GeneralAntilles> I's got nuttin'
Apr 21 19:38:03 * GeneralAntilles is currently staring at an infobox for Tinymail.
Apr 21 19:39:04 <lcuk> does it have to be specific history?  or can i talk about my grandma in there?
Apr 21 19:39:22 <GeneralAntilles> You're welcome to talk about whatever you want.
Apr 21 19:39:29 <GeneralAntilles> Then I'll take great pleasure in deleting your drivel. :P
Apr 21 19:40:01 <qwerty12_N800> Hehe, off topic, but I should be getting a cat soon, which one is  unknown ^-^. My old one died :(, a cheeky bastard when he wass alive though.
Apr 21 19:40:08 <qwerty12_N800> s/wass/was
Apr 21 19:40:21 <GeneralAntilles> Shelter or breeder?
Apr 21 19:40:46 <qwerty12_N800> breeder i think
Apr 21 19:40:48 <lcuk> :( @ cats passing
Apr 21 19:41:25 <GeneralAntilles> Why breeder?
Apr 21 19:41:30 <GeneralAntilles> Save a cat, go to the shelter. :P
Apr 21 19:41:58 <qwerty12_N800> Hehe, my sister wants a new born kitten
Apr 21 19:42:01 * lcuk got a pair of cats from the shelter (18months old each)
Apr 21 19:43:13 <qwerty12_N800> Although, I wouldn't mind one from the shelter. Some of the rspca's stories are horrible :(
Apr 21 19:43:40 <GeneralAntilles> You know what's interesting?
Apr 21 19:44:12 <qwerty12_N800> GeneralAntilles: Enlighten me.
Apr 21 19:44:19 <GeneralAntilles> PITA's euthanization rate is worse than any other stray protection agency.
Apr 21 19:44:28 <GeneralAntilles> (failed at spelling euthanization there for a little while. ;))
Apr 21 19:44:59 <GeneralAntilles> (probably still failed anyway)
Apr 21 19:45:03 <lcuk> but do they have highest intake?
Apr 21 19:45:28 <GeneralAntilles> Also: s/PITA/PETA/
Apr 21 19:45:31 <lcuk> just because X does more of Y does not mean they are any worse than other similar operations
Apr 21 19:45:38 <GeneralAntilles> Rate
Apr 21 19:45:43 <GeneralAntilles> Percentage
Apr 21 19:45:49 <GeneralAntilles> 97% to be exact
Apr 21 19:46:16 <lcuk> thats about 97% worse than i would like
Apr 21 19:46:48 <GeneralAntilles> The national average is somewhere in the ~30-40% range.
Apr 21 19:47:11 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody here good with IPA?
Apr 21 19:47:45 <GeneralAntilles> "Tinymail is named after the girlfriend of the maintainer, Philip. Her name is Tinne. That's why you pronounce tinymail as tinnie-mail instead of taainie-mail."
Apr 21 19:49:08 <||cw> then why isnt it tinnemail
Apr 21 19:49:19 <lcuk> cos shes a midget?
Apr 21 19:49:22 <GeneralAntilles> Because it's a small e-mail framework.
Apr 21 19:49:36 <||cw> sounds like it's named after being small then
Apr 21 19:49:53 <GeneralAntilles> OK, whatever who cares.
Apr 21 19:49:56 <GeneralAntilles> How do I IPA it?
Apr 21 19:49:57 <||cw> :P
Apr 21 19:50:15 <lcuk> coincience, but let the guy off - he wanted to make her feel better "look sweetie, im not ignoring you for no reason, im coding something in your name" :D
Apr 21 19:50:24 <Hrw> hii
Apr 21 19:50:47 * lcuk renames liqbase liqtracy or tracybase
Apr 21 19:51:28 <qwerty12_N800> liqtracy?
Apr 21 19:51:43 <Hrw> someone fremember which xserver was used in os2005 or 2006?
Apr 21 19:51:53 <lcuk> yer, its a good hobby
Apr 21 19:52:00 <qwerty12_N800> lol
Apr 21 19:52:09 <GeneralAntilles> Was it not Xomap, Hrw?
Apr 21 19:52:26 <Hrw> GeneralAntilles: was. but which ver?
Apr 21 19:52:27 <lcuk> right, im goin hiding inside vmware for a while
Apr 21 19:52:30 <lcuk> back later
Apr 21 19:53:12 <qwerty12_N800> Hrw: Try checking the 05/06 repos?
Apr 21 19:54:19 <hrw|n810> qwerty12_N800: it is part of os so no packages
Apr 21 19:54:49 <qwerty12_N800> Ah, I thought maybe source package at least may be available.
Apr 21 19:55:30 <hrw|n810> was
Apr 21 19:55:35 <hrw|n810> thx for idea
Apr 21 19:55:46 <hrw|n810> it was 6.6.3
Apr 21 19:55:55 <qwerty12_N800> np :)
Apr 21 20:02:34 <hrw|n810> hi florian
Apr 21 20:02:43 <flo_lap> re
Apr 21 20:07:04 * qwerty12_N800 is away: I'm busy
Apr 21 20:08:27 <qwerty12_N800> Damn, xchat announce >.<, I've got an 2 1/2 english essay due in tommorow to start lol
Apr 21 20:09:02 <qwerty12_N800> ^ 2 & 1/2 pages. now im really away.
Apr 21 20:09:03 <Khertan_on_n810> how can i force gtkrc_image which is set to false in a python gtk application ?
Apr 21 20:10:02 <hrw|n810> fscking appmanager
Apr 21 20:10:29 <hrw|n810> when maemo will get adept or synaptic... or aptitude
Apr 21 20:11:20 <qwerty12_N800> hrw, synaptic and aptitude are no goes :(, unless someone gets me a version that uses apt libs on os2008
Apr 21 20:11:28 <Navi> :P
Apr 21 20:11:33 <Khertan_on_n810> lmoura seem have post a solution some time ago ... but the pastebin  link was deleted (too old)
Apr 21 20:12:56 <qwerty12_N800> I ported synaptic but the nmap errors kept coming up with version 7 of libapt which was newer than the os2008 one. Aptitude was same problem.
Apr 21 20:13:00 <hrw|n810> qwerty12_N800: no goes? simple recompile would be good for start but rather hard to use
Apr 21 20:13:24 <hrw|n810> fscking maemo
Apr 21 20:14:43 <Navi> What version apt libs does OS2008 use?
Apr 21 20:15:22 <qwerty12_N800> I tried symlinking to maemo libs but missing symbols. The one with right librariies would crash with numap (smething like that) problems on startup. Worked in  sbox fine  though :(
Apr 21 20:15:26 <qwerty12_N800> 6 something
Apr 21 20:15:39 <hrw|n810> 6.3
Apr 21 20:16:17 <qwerty12_N800> Good news is that diablo should use 7 as the latest svn of app manager needs 7 to build.
Apr 21 20:16:42 <Navi> Etch uses 6.3
Apr 21 20:17:06 <fysa> GeneralAntilles, hey modest master, did we get an update today? ;)
Apr 21 20:17:16 <hrw|n810> Navi: iirc os2008 follows etch versions
Apr 21 20:17:16 <Navi> Did you try to build against the maemo apt libs using the version of synaptic Etch currently uses?
Apr 21 20:18:26 <Navi> http://packages.debian.org/etch/synaptic
Apr 21 20:18:31 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, fysa.
Apr 21 20:18:34 <GeneralAntilles> It's out and working fine.
Apr 21 20:18:37 <fysa> nice
Apr 21 20:18:41 <Navi> Woo, fine.
Apr 21 20:18:41 <qwerty12_N800> Navi, no. I didn't know such a version existed. If my memory serves me well, only a few modifications were needed for straight recompile.
Apr 21 20:18:48 <qwerty12_N800> Navi, thx
Apr 21 20:19:15 <NOCmadman> quick question i just installed ssh and from xterm i am trying "ssh root@localhost" and it is giving a bad host key verification it is not even giving me a chance to enter the password. Can i simply delete the hostkey or is there something else i msut do first
Apr 21 20:19:18 <Navi> qwerty12_N800, I search the Etch repos before I look at the Ubuntu ones
Apr 21 20:19:35 <qwerty12_N800> I was in debian unstable :/
Apr 21 20:19:39 <Navi> Heh :/
Apr 21 20:20:37 <qwerty12_N800> I had to reflash my n800 because of broken newer apt and app manager and synaptic.
Apr 21 20:20:42 <Navi> Mmk
Apr 21 20:20:59 <Veggen> NOC: hmm..delete the relevant entry from ~/.ssh/known_hosts ?
Apr 21 20:21:31 <Veggen> (should say which line in the error message)
Apr 21 20:21:37 <NOCmadman> ok i wanted verification before i tried that
Apr 21 20:21:46 <NOCmadman> just moved it and it worked fine with my password
Apr 21 20:22:01 <NOCmadman> no clue where the key came from as i dont remember putting it there
Apr 21 20:22:57 <chrisak> hey qwerty, i'm looking at the screencapture you posted in the 'idea' thread... is that omweather you've got on tthe desktop?
Apr 21 20:24:55 <NOCmadman> one last quick question before i go back to lurking does os2008 support ipv6 ?
Apr 21 20:25:52 <qwerty12_N800> chrisak: yes
Apr 21 20:26:03 <qwerty12_N800> NOCmadman: with hacks, yes
Apr 21 20:26:06 <Navi> My omweather is borked
Apr 21 20:26:11 <NOCmadman> what do i need to add as when i do ifconfig it only shows ipv4
Apr 21 20:26:26 <NOCmadman> oh just now getting into it not ready for any real hacks just yet
Apr 21 20:26:32 <qwerty12_N800> A new kernel and quite a few packages
Apr 21 20:26:34 <chrisak> ok.  looks di
Apr 21 20:27:07 <chrisak> looks cooler then mine.  i must have missed an update
Apr 21 20:27:10 <NOCmadman> im to scared to break it jsut yet to change the kernel will try it in a scratchbox first just to experience it before i touch any kernel changes on the actual device
Apr 21 20:27:44 <qwerty12_N800> I don't think you can flash  a kernel in sbox
Apr 21 20:27:52 <qwerty12_N800> compile them certainly
Apr 21 20:28:13 <Navi> qwerty12_N800's screenshots are always sexy, especially that cool rss applet
Apr 21 20:28:36 <NOCmadman> ok well i will come back to that i have to leave work now boss is shooing me away from the pc lol
Apr 21 20:28:49 <qwerty12_N800> Navi: ;)
Apr 21 20:30:07 <Navi> I wish my omweather wasn't completely borked
Apr 21 20:30:22 <Navi> It shows today as the second day, and a question mark for today
Apr 21 20:30:37 <qwerty12_N800> Reinstall? :p
Apr 21 20:30:41 <Navi> Did
Apr 21 20:31:17 <qwerty12_N800> Wait a sec, I know the locations of all the settings.
Apr 21 20:33:17 <Navi> amazing, app manager just segfaulted
Apr 21 20:34:14 <hrw|n810> Navi: normal
Apr 21 20:34:26 <Navi> It's a first for me.
Apr 21 20:34:39 <qwerty12_N800> Ok, remove omweather for good measure. rm -rf /usr/share/omweather , rm -rf ~/apps/omweather and with gconf-editor, remove apps/maemo/omweather
Apr 21 20:34:51 <qwerty12_N800> happens to me on a daily basis :(
Apr 21 20:35:14 <Navi> Yay, gmail's working
Apr 21 20:35:24 <Navi> Bah, it's complaining about certificates
Apr 21 20:35:32 <qwerty12_N800> too many repo's and apps. app manager insists on caching all the packages.
Apr 21 20:36:04 <chrisak> navi, mine does too
Apr 21 20:36:23 <fysa> app manager is almost unusable in redpill mode ;)
Apr 21 20:36:33 <Navi> modest should get around to adopting a multi-page viewer
Apr 21 20:36:35 <hrw|n810> GeneralAntilles: when diablo release?
Apr 21 20:36:45 <Navi> scrolling with a few thousand messages is a pain
Apr 21 20:36:56 <hrw|n810> fysa: same in normal mode :)
Apr 21 20:36:59 <Navi> not a viewer, a multi-page list
Apr 21 20:37:21 <fysa> I would like something similar to the way Google Reader has 'never-ending scrolling'
Apr 21 20:37:40 <fysa> i.e. populate 50 items until you scroll near the bottom, then populate 50 more.
Apr 21 20:38:03 <KotCzarny> qwerty12: you should invest some time into unionfs
Apr 21 20:38:15 <qwerty12_N800> CustomiseGoogle has a feature like that.
Apr 21 20:38:17 <KotCzarny> that way you can make a stable os, then just mount some other partition for changes
Apr 21 20:38:28 <qwerty12_N800> KotCzarny: My bash skills are bad
Apr 21 20:38:30 <KotCzarny> then if you break something you just remove that overlaid partition
Apr 21 20:38:38 <KotCzarny> without actually reflashing anything
Apr 21 20:38:39 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 20:38:44 <qwerty12_N800> The module is fine though :)
Apr 21 20:38:59 <KotCzarny> hi everyone
Apr 21 20:39:10 <qwerty12_N800> If anyone wants, they can take over that.
Apr 21 20:39:15 <qwerty12_N800> KotCzarny: hi
Apr 21 20:39:19 <KotCzarny> qwerty12: that were my 2cents, what you will do with that information is up to you :)
Apr 21 20:39:40 <fysa> unionfs will be excellent.
Apr 21 20:39:58 <GeneralAntilles> hrw|n810, "Q2 2008"
Apr 21 20:40:04 <KotCzarny> i think it should be named 'onionfs'
Apr 21 20:40:05 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 21 20:40:06 <GeneralAntilles> Navi, file an enhancement request.
Apr 21 20:40:13 <hrw|n810> GeneralAntilles: so july
Apr 21 20:40:15 <Navi> GeneralAntilles, no thanks
Apr 21 20:40:24 <fysa> can you have a unionfs on top of a unionfs? :P
Apr 21 20:40:30 <KotCzarny> probably
Apr 21 20:40:35 <fysa> USB storange on mmc2 on top of internal flash
Apr 21 20:40:39 <qwerty12_N800> KotCzarny: :) but I can't ze shell script :p
Apr 21 20:40:43 <GeneralAntilles> Then why the hell did you mention it if you don't actually want it?
Apr 21 20:40:49 <qwerty12_N800> ^fix ze
Apr 21 20:40:50 <hrw|n810> GeneralAntilles: let me guess - input methods still closed and broken?
Apr 21 20:41:00 <GeneralAntilles> I don't know, hrw|n810.
Apr 21 20:41:03 <GeneralAntilles> I don't have a copy.
Apr 21 20:41:06 <Navi> GeneralAntilles, I want it, but I'm too lazy to do anything about it
Apr 21 20:41:07 <hrw|n810> ok
Apr 21 20:41:18 <Navi> GeneralAntilles, you should know me better than that
Apr 21 20:41:22 <KotCzarny> qwerty12: shell script is just a text file containing commands you would like to execute :)
Apr 21 20:41:28 <hrw|n810> GeneralAntilles: nokia internals only?
Apr 21 20:41:45 <qwerty12_N800> KotCzarny: This script is looong
Apr 21 20:41:48 <djcb> GeneralAntilles: nice work
Apr 21 20:42:02 <KotCzarny> longcat is looong
Apr 21 20:42:03 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 20:42:17 <GeneralAntilles> djcb, if you wanted to write up some sort of "About Us" page or something that I could use to flesh out the History section. . . .
Apr 21 20:42:21 <qwerty12_N800> It's the script from the 770 unionfs with small modifications for Os2008
Apr 21 20:42:32 <GeneralAntilles> hrw|n810, Hmm?
Apr 21 20:42:45 <djcb> yeah, i'll give it a try
Apr 21 20:42:47 <hrw|n810> GeneralAntilles: diablo testing
Apr 21 20:42:47 <KotCzarny> but unionfs mounting should be a oneliner, i think
Apr 21 20:42:57 <GeneralAntilles> I have no access to anything, hrw|n810.
Apr 21 20:43:03 <hrw|n810> ok
Apr 21 20:43:06 <GeneralAntilles> Diablo isn't released yet. ;)
Apr 21 20:43:09 <Navi> He likes to act like he does though
Apr 21 20:43:19 <GeneralAntilles> It makes me feel all important n'stuff.
Apr 21 20:43:27 <Navi> Leaking information he got from me and refering to official stuff too
Apr 21 20:43:27 <fysa> ugh.  app manager, why must you update every time I view package info.
Apr 21 20:43:28 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles is our cheerleader
Apr 21 20:44:13 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 21 20:44:19 <lcuk> evening kot
Apr 21 20:44:25 <qwerty12_N800> KotCzarny: it is but the script makes it easy :), if you wanna try it out w/out the script, grab one of the kernels or compile your own with the info I gave and insmod the module :)
Apr 21 20:44:33 <KotCzarny> someone should write a pygtk script for an apt-get/cache :>
Apr 21 20:44:39 <GeneralAntilles> djcb, if you want me to use that maemo-M email icon as a logo, would you happen to have a copy that is larger than favicon size?
Apr 21 20:44:50 <KotCzarny> qwerty: my os is stable :)
Apr 21 20:45:01 <djcb> GeneralAntilles: i'll have a look a that as well
Apr 21 20:45:02 <KotCzarny> and i have a working base partition for instant cloning
Apr 21 20:45:04 <qwerty12_N800> Hehe, good choice
Apr 21 20:45:08 <KotCzarny> (~4minutes of work)
Apr 21 20:45:14 <djcb> i guess it will take some drawing :)
Apr 21 20:45:31 * sp3000 listens to a minute of rather loud new mail notification chiming
Apr 21 20:45:35 <KotCzarny> hi lcuk
Apr 21 20:45:36 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 20:45:45 * lcuk is shuffling
Apr 21 20:45:56 * sp3000 wonders if it might want to, uh, throttle that a bit :)
Apr 21 20:46:17 * KotCzarny is yawning
Apr 21 20:47:32 <KotCzarny> heh..
Apr 21 20:47:48 <KotCzarny> should i start cycling too?
Apr 21 20:47:58 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 20:48:04 <qwerty12_N800> moving channel bar to right is bad idea...
Apr 21 20:48:23 <fysa> how much extra memory does modest auto-download use?
Apr 21 20:49:07 <Veggen> KotCzarny: I hope to get around to bicycling to work, soon. 12.7 km each way.
Apr 21 20:49:18 <Khertan_on_n810> none as it doesn t work  :)
Apr 21 20:49:23 <KotCzarny> i was talking about channel cycling..
Apr 21 20:49:24 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 20:49:29 <qwerty12_N800> lol
Apr 21 20:49:32 <lcuk> if you do, get a dynamo and chanrge your devices from it as you ride to work
Apr 21 20:49:43 <KotCzarny> 2 dynamos > 1 dynamo
Apr 21 20:49:49 <lcuk> 4 > 2
Apr 21 20:49:59 <qwerty12_N800> 6 > 4
Apr 21 20:50:03 <qwerty12_N800> 1000 > 500
Apr 21 20:50:08 <KotCzarny> * > 1000
Apr 21 20:50:37 <qwerty12_N800> <3 > 100
Apr 21 20:50:45 <qwerty12_N800> *1000
Apr 21 20:50:59 <Navi> </3 > <3
Apr 21 20:51:12 <KotCzarny> <3 is just a hidden perversy for women
Apr 21 20:51:21 <KotCzarny> they think it's romantic
Apr 21 20:51:24 <Veggen> lcuk: I had a year bicycling to work where I almost never let the weather stop me. worst was when I used an hour to work because it was 20 cm snow on the bicycle way :)
Apr 21 20:51:28 <KotCzarny> when all it's about is an a*
Apr 21 20:51:34 <qwerty12_N800> lol, im'a perv by name ;)
Apr 21 20:51:49 <Khertan_on_n810> how can i surclass gtk theme to have icon in gtk button ?
Apr 21 20:51:49 <qwerty12_N800> not by nature. :p
Apr 21 20:51:53 <lcuk> cool veggen :)  braver than most
Apr 21 20:52:09 <KotCzarny> snow isn't that bad
Apr 21 20:52:10 <lcuk> how did you cope with the ermmm odour?
Apr 21 20:52:13 <Veggen> but last automn, I let it slip. and parked the bicycle for the winter.
Apr 21 20:52:31 <Veggen> odour?
Apr 21 20:52:44 <lcuk> yes, cycling 13km in a morning has to take the freshness off
Apr 21 20:52:58 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 21 20:53:00 <Veggen> oh. shower at work.
Apr 21 20:53:15 <lcuk> :) double bonus then, if my place had one i would jump at it
Apr 21 20:54:02 <hrw|n810> bye
Apr 21 20:54:09 <qwerty12_N800> bye
Apr 21 20:54:33 * lcuk damns not having code generation up and running yet
Apr 21 20:54:45 <KotCzarny> code generation?
Apr 21 20:55:10 <Navi> You tell the computer what you want and it generates code for you, duh.
Apr 21 20:55:10 <lcuk> yer if i am building lots of similar classes i usually template it and give myself all the results from one small definition file
Apr 21 20:55:38 <chrisak> i'm confused by some itt threads re: starting/stopping bluetooth using personal-menu command... am i understanding correctly that the hciconfig needed is simply not available for 2008?
Apr 21 20:55:45 <lcuk> but the current templates and functions i have are all vb oriented
Apr 21 20:56:04 <qwerty12_N800> chrisak: switchonbt ;)
Apr 21 20:56:10 <qwerty12_N800> google it
Apr 21 20:56:17 <KotCzarny> lcuk: write a converter?
Apr 21 20:56:18 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 20:56:22 <lcuk> lol!
Apr 21 20:56:23 <chrisak> willdo, thanks :)
Apr 21 20:56:55 <lcuk> ill just take some classes ive done in c as base templates and generate around them - they are in style i require but i need MOAR of them
Apr 21 20:57:08 * lcuk has a plan for linuxtag and it involves lots of code
Apr 21 20:57:15 <KotCzarny> lcuk: http://freshmeat.net/projects/vb2c/
Apr 21 20:57:17 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 21 20:57:38 <lcuk> no - ive done all the code i need now - ive built enough little pieces to basically pull off what i want to achieve
Apr 21 20:57:56 <lcuk> it certainly doesnt need vb - my mind is totally back into c - vb is a grind now
Apr 21 20:58:46 <KotCzarny> hoorray?
Apr 21 20:58:47 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 20:58:58 <lcuk> i think so
Apr 21 20:59:21 <lcuk> i feel better about it all now and can see a really good project
Apr 21 21:00:03 <Mousey> so is it just me or does the new modest crash for everone?
Apr 21 21:00:18 <KotCzarny> mousey: downgrade
Apr 21 21:00:33 <Navi> Mousey, just you
Apr 21 21:00:33 <Mousey> rlly
Apr 21 21:00:40 <Mousey> waugh!
Apr 21 21:00:53 <Khertan_on_n810> arg !!!!! set_use_stock() don't work too !!!!!
Apr 21 21:01:00 <Mousey> does it have a way to do message filtering yet?
Apr 21 21:02:25 <qwerty12_N800> Khertan_on_n810: If no one ports fortune tonight (please do someone), I'll do it tommorow.
Apr 21 21:02:26 <qwerty12_N800> bye
Apr 21 21:02:41 <KotCzarny> desperate call?
Apr 21 21:02:42 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 21:03:46 <AStorm> well, my N810 works correctly after that dissection
Apr 21 21:03:47 <AStorm> :>
Apr 21 21:04:13 <KotCzarny> ..yet
Apr 21 21:04:27 <AStorm> no, forever
Apr 21 21:04:42 <AStorm> it's really easy to disassemble and reassemble, compared to some laptops
Apr 21 21:04:53 <KotCzarny> assuming you have correct screwdriver..
Apr 21 21:04:54 <AStorm> really built like a cell phone - for easy servicing
Apr 21 21:04:54 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 21 21:05:07 <AStorm> KotCzarny: nah, for 8 screws total I don't need one :>
Apr 21 21:05:11 <Khertan_on_n810> noone know how to bypass gtkrc image theme pref to show stock icon in a gtk button ?
Apr 21 21:05:24 <KotCzarny> khertan: ~/gtkrc
Apr 21 21:05:29 <KotCzarny> i mean gtkrc-2.0
Apr 21 21:06:19 <KotCzarny> heh, scratch that
Apr 21 21:06:21 <KotCzarny> i misread
Apr 21 21:06:30 <Mousey> holy!
Apr 21 21:06:30 <KotCzarny> i'm still sleeping
Apr 21 21:06:35 * Mousey sells his olpc stock
Apr 21 21:06:50 <KotCzarny> mousey: what happened?
Apr 21 21:07:34 <Khertan_on_n810> KotCzarny > yes but i want only to do it for my python app
Apr 21 21:07:37 <AStorm> http://www.chipcatalog.com/Maxim/MAX1703.htm - I'll buy that chip
Apr 21 21:07:50 <KotCzarny> buy 10
Apr 21 21:07:57 <KotCzarny> i believe they will come handy
Apr 21 21:08:03 <AStorm> why? :>
Apr 21 21:09:05 <KotCzarny> and you could make more sets and sell them :)
Apr 21 21:09:14 <KotCzarny> and you could make more sets and sell them :)
Apr 21 21:09:21 <AStorm> heh
Apr 21 21:09:32 <AStorm> If I had that much time.
Apr 21 21:09:45 <KotCzarny> once you do one it will be easy
Apr 21 21:09:51 <AStorm> anyway, there probably are commercial products
Apr 21 21:10:01 <AStorm> and I can't compete with China
Apr 21 21:10:15 <KotCzarny> yes, you can
Apr 21 21:10:16 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 21:10:35 <KotCzarny> just slap in some fud ;)
Apr 21 21:11:24 <AStorm> blah blah ;>
Apr 21 21:11:28 <AStorm> too simple a circuit
Apr 21 21:11:58 <KotCzarny> Warning - visiting this web site may harm your computer!
Apr 21 21:12:01 <AStorm> the only minor problem with this MAX1703 is operating current, 120 mA
Apr 21 21:12:04 <KotCzarny> for: www.ffshrine.org/ff8/ff8.php
Apr 21 21:12:04 <AStorm> ;P
Apr 21 21:12:05 <KotCzarny> O.o
Apr 21 21:12:16 <KotCzarny> is google overreacting or what..
Apr 21 21:12:22 <AStorm> ah, wrong
Apr 21 21:12:27 <AStorm> 0,12 mA
Apr 21 21:12:31 <AStorm> now that's miniscule
Apr 21 21:12:33 <AStorm> :>
Apr 21 21:12:39 <KotCzarny> but look at Iout
Apr 21 21:12:41 <AStorm> excellent step-up regulator
Apr 21 21:12:44 <AStorm> max 1,5A
Apr 21 21:12:46 <AStorm> excellent
Apr 21 21:13:35 <KotCzarny> i think operating A means how much it wastes on operating
Apr 21 21:13:36 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 21:13:59 <AStorm> yes
Apr 21 21:14:04 <Khertan_on_n810> bye
Apr 21 21:14:05 <AStorm> but it's excellent, 0,12mA
Apr 21 21:14:07 <AStorm> max
Apr 21 21:14:16 <KotCzarny> so where's the problem?
Apr 21 21:14:16 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 21:14:41 <AStorm> price
Apr 21 21:14:47 <AStorm> 3,3$ at 1k
Apr 21 21:14:53 <AStorm> I'll check local prices
Apr 21 21:15:08 <AStorm> one costs 20 PLN ;P
Apr 21 21:15:14 <AStorm> not too shabby
Apr 21 21:15:33 <AStorm> another 33 PLN ;P
Apr 21 21:16:12 <AStorm> KotCzarny: http://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic303995.html
Apr 21 21:16:13 <AStorm> :>
Apr 21 21:17:56 <AStorm> KotCzarny: bonus: http://www.kktj.pl/kaciki/techniczny/led/pompy01.html
Apr 21 21:18:06 <KotCzarny> ta, widze w linkach
Apr 21 21:18:08 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 21:21:35 <AStorm> well, it has about 80% efficiency at 1,2 Vin, 100 mA
Apr 21 21:21:37 <AStorm> too low
Apr 21 21:21:48 <AStorm> 2.4 is much better
Apr 21 21:21:57 <KotCzarny> mhm
Apr 21 21:22:00 <term-sig> gowno prawda.
Apr 21 21:22:08 <KotCzarny> they are most efficient with high Vin
Apr 21 21:22:17 <KotCzarny> 24V usually
Apr 21 21:22:17 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 21 21:22:25 <AStorm> nah
Apr 21 21:22:30 <AStorm> this one is best at 3.6V
Apr 21 21:22:45 <KotCzarny> i'm talking about general case
Apr 21 21:22:49 <KotCzarny> not this one
Apr 21 21:23:09 <AStorm> but it could easily drive N with fairly high efficiency with 2,4V in
Apr 21 21:23:19 <AStorm> 90-something efficiency
Apr 21 21:23:27 <KotCzarny> anything over 90% is ok
Apr 21 21:23:28 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 21:23:51 <AStorm> it's slightly below 90% at 2,4Vin, 700 mA, 5V out
Apr 21 21:24:07 <KotCzarny> sounds ok for me
Apr 21 21:24:08 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 21:24:36 <AStorm> if we can get 3,6V, you could drive full 1,5A
Apr 21 21:24:51 <KotCzarny> you wouldn't have i think
Apr 21 21:25:04 <KotCzarny> it was you with 630mA charger?
Apr 21 21:25:05 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 21:27:12 <AStorm> yes, worked, but lousily
Apr 21 21:27:24 <AStorm> 750 mA works ok, but is fully loaded
Apr 21 21:27:26 <AStorm> :P
Apr 21 21:27:38 <AStorm> AC-4E is also close to fully loaded
Apr 21 21:27:43 <AStorm> rated 890 mA
Apr 21 21:28:53 <AStorm> on 2 NiMH, it can get up to 950 mA current
Apr 21 21:28:55 <AStorm> easily :>
Apr 21 21:29:14 <AStorm> so, more than enough. Win.
Apr 21 21:29:23 <KotCzarny> burn.
Apr 21 21:29:24 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 21:29:34 <AStorm> which part of "up to" confuses you?
Apr 21 21:29:59 <AStorm> I'd expect more like 800 mA
Apr 21 21:30:01 <KotCzarny> external part
Apr 21 21:30:13 <KotCzarny> then why are you concerned about amps?
Apr 21 21:30:25 <AStorm> I'm not
Apr 21 21:30:38 <AStorm> just thinking... could use it to drive circuitry from the battery port
Apr 21 21:30:45 <AStorm> additional win, 3,7V output
Apr 21 21:30:50 <AStorm> higher efficiency
Apr 21 21:33:49 <AStorm> could drive it from 2x AA with efficiency over 90%
Apr 21 21:34:12 <KotCzarny> don't forget a charging port
Apr 21 21:34:30 <KotCzarny> so you won't have to get the charger with you
Apr 21 21:34:30 <AStorm> you mean?
Apr 21 21:34:35 <AStorm> ah, that one
Apr 21 21:34:42 <AStorm> charging NiMH is too tricky
Apr 21 21:34:51 <AStorm> dV/dT charger is needed
Apr 21 21:35:11 <AStorm> it's not as simple as charging that Nokia battery ;P
Apr 21 21:35:12 <practisevoodoo> is there anyway to reduce to font size in the programs menu?
Apr 21 21:35:36 <KotCzarny> practisevoodoo: yes, theme gtkrc or /home/user/.gtkrc-2.0
Apr 21 21:38:18 <AStorm> KotCzarny: well, the charger wouldn't be that hard
Apr 21 21:38:24 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 21:38:32 <AStorm> fortunately that nice MAX1703 has 1,250V reference
Apr 21 21:38:38 <AStorm> guess what it'd be useful for
Apr 21 21:40:34 <KotCzarny> i wonder on what part all those chinese one-cell chargers are based
Apr 21 21:41:20 <AStorm> i suspect not this one
Apr 21 21:41:24 <AStorm> but some linear charger
Apr 21 21:41:34 <AStorm> uhm, linear converter
Apr 21 21:41:45 <AStorm> that's why they heat up
Apr 21 21:44:04 <practisevoodoo> KotCzarny, is there a url for gtkrc editing on the n810
Apr 21 21:44:38 <KotCzarny> i would advise looking into existing themes..
Apr 21 21:44:49 <AStorm> practisevoodoo: just use the usual gtkrc guides
Apr 21 21:44:55 <AStorm> plus read the themes there are
Apr 21 21:46:18 <AStorm> wow, 554 transistors in this MAX1703
Apr 21 21:46:28 <AStorm> ;>
Apr 21 21:46:32 <KotCzarny> quite a lot
Apr 21 21:47:01 <AStorm> well, there are quite a few op-amps inside
Apr 21 21:47:53 <AStorm> hmm, will need a few tiny caps and a Schottky diode
Apr 21 21:49:09 <AStorm> and a microinductor too :>
Apr 21 21:52:39 <AStorm> hmmhmm
Apr 21 21:52:41 <AStorm> http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/1134
Apr 21 21:53:34 <KotCzarny> The diode's forward voltage drop, however, can reduce battery life and efficiency.
Apr 21 21:53:40 <KotCzarny> you don't need it
Apr 21 21:53:47 <KotCzarny> because you have it already in device
Apr 21 21:54:00 <KotCzarny> that is, device runs from battery all the time
Apr 21 21:54:10 <KotCzarny> with a little help of charger sometimes
Apr 21 21:54:28 <AStorm> ...
Apr 21 21:54:35 <AStorm> see the real solution in the next pic
Apr 21 21:55:05 <KotCzarny> still, it's for devices you create from grounds up
Apr 21 21:55:08 <KotCzarny> i guess
Apr 21 21:55:46 <AStorm> it's a USB UPS, so, no :P
Apr 21 21:55:51 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 21:57:21 <AStorm> stupid diode could be used, but it'd need at least 3,6V
Apr 21 21:57:24 <AStorm> and it's wasteful
Apr 21 21:57:31 <AStorm> this regulator is much better
Apr 21 21:59:29 <practisevoodoo> arg, how are you supposed to edit gtkrc? alternativly is there anyway to get root access?
Apr 21 21:59:52 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 21 21:59:55 <KotCzarny> install ssh
Apr 21 21:59:56 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 22:00:05 <KotCzarny> and mc
Apr 21 22:00:20 <GeneralAntilles> practisevoodoo, install easyroot from here: http://nitapps.com/
Apr 21 22:00:35 <AStorm> there's vim too
Apr 21 22:00:44 <KotCzarny> vim is hc
Apr 21 22:00:52 <KotCzarny> mcedit is good for most uses
Apr 21 22:00:57 <AStorm> blah, blah ;)
Apr 21 22:00:59 <KotCzarny> simple and intuitive
Apr 21 22:01:07 <AStorm> and ctrl-happy
Apr 21 22:01:09 <AStorm> ;P
Apr 21 22:01:13 <KotCzarny> and you don't have to remember keymagic
Apr 21 22:01:17 <practisevoodoo> yeah i was trying to use vim to edit it but didnt have write rights
Apr 21 22:01:27 <AStorm> practisevoodoo: d'oh, use easyroot
Apr 21 22:01:35 <AStorm> or set up sudo right
Apr 21 22:02:09 <KotCzarny> or just install ssh
Apr 21 22:02:10 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 22:02:21 <KotCzarny> openssh that is
Apr 21 22:02:41 <AStorm> or dropbear, which is ultralight
Apr 21 22:03:08 <KotCzarny> nah.
Apr 21 22:03:40 <GeneralAntilles> dropbear is underfeatured.
Apr 21 22:03:46 <GeneralAntilles> OpenSSH + easyroot is the way to go.
Apr 21 22:03:53 <AStorm> exactly
Apr 21 22:04:04 <KotCzarny> if you have openssh then you don't need easyroot
Apr 21 22:04:25 <AStorm> nah, local shell is still better
Apr 21 22:04:35 <KotCzarny> in what sense?
Apr 21 22:04:36 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 22:04:43 <KotCzarny> it's non standard
Apr 21 22:05:07 <KotCzarny> and redundant
Apr 21 22:05:25 <AStorm> why non-standard?
Apr 21 22:05:29 <AStorm> it's almost standard su
Apr 21 22:05:40 <KotCzarny> su is standard.
Apr 21 22:05:55 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 22:07:27 <KotCzarny> one should be trained with 'su' not with 'easyroot'
Apr 21 22:08:48 <AStorm> ;>
Apr 21 22:14:21 <Veggen> I added a line to /etc/sudoers so that I can sudo <anything>
Apr 21 22:14:45 <Veggen> (even sudo su if I wish)
Apr 21 22:14:54 <KotCzarny> i just switch to root and run mc
Apr 21 22:14:54 <AStorm> Veggen: sudo -s, not sudo su
Apr 21 22:16:22 <Veggen> ok :) (didn't know about that one, perhaps because sudo su isn't that long to type :)
Apr 21 22:16:39 <KotCzarny> one should use su -
Apr 21 22:16:40 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 22:36:08 <AStorm> hey peeps
Apr 21 22:36:28 <AStorm> tell me about package needed for canola to support Vorbis
Apr 21 22:51:17 <megabyte405_> AStorm: pick an ogg support package form maemo.org and cross your fingers
Apr 21 22:54:35 <AStorm> nope
Apr 21 22:54:38 <AStorm> that's not enough
Apr 21 22:54:52 <AStorm> lardman said something else is needed
Apr 21 22:55:30 <AStorm> whee, these Senn CX400 sure are bass happy
Apr 21 22:55:56 <AStorm> or I'm too used to bass thin Beyers DT 231
Apr 21 22:56:12 <AStorm> or both
Apr 21 22:57:14 <AStorm> N810 on AC is audibly noisier than on battery ;P
Apr 21 22:57:40 <AStorm> or I need Ohm adapter
Apr 21 22:58:03 <AStorm> yes, I need an adapter, N810 output is prepared for 32 Ohm, not 16 Ohm
Apr 21 22:59:04 <AStorm> hmm, most of the noise disappears on real load
Apr 21 22:59:23 <AStorm> (not hides, but disappears)
Apr 21 23:00:10 <AStorm> blah @ cheap electronics ;P
Apr 21 23:00:27 <AStorm> analog part of the sound chain could use some work
Apr 21 23:00:48 <KotCzarny> The RapidShare Happy Hours are active right now. Have fun!
Apr 21 23:00:50 <KotCzarny> lol
Apr 21 23:00:51 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 21 23:03:08 <AStorm> N810 has 2x too much power for these efficient earplugs
Apr 21 23:04:37 <Navi> Heh
Apr 21 23:22:38 <practisevoodoo> is there someway to get the fn key to stay on?
Apr 21 23:27:48 <lcdd> keep punching it
Apr 21 23:44:27 <AStorm> practisevoodoo: hit it twice
Apr 21 23:47:33 <Mousey> is there some special magic key combo i can use to bypass the NOKIA whitescreen of no-info on boot?
Apr 21 23:47:44 <GeneralAntilles> What do you mean?
Apr 21 23:47:44 <AStorm> no
Apr 21 23:47:50 <AStorm> use some other initfs
Apr 21 23:47:55 <AStorm> e.g. Fanoush'
Apr 21 23:47:56 <Mousey> it's not booting again
Apr 21 23:48:12 <Mousey> i'm DOOMED to RTFM the fanoush voodoo magicks!!
Apr 21 23:48:32 <Mousey> why god must i learn this tablet inside and out and know everything about it, why can i not just be a simple user?!
Apr 21 23:48:38 <AStorm> what?
Apr 21 23:48:39 <woodwizzle> does the n800 have a cam like the n810? or is the camera an n810 only feature?
Apr 21 23:48:48 <AStorm> woodwizzle: it has a pop-out camera
Apr 21 23:48:58 <AStorm> Mousey: it's real simple
Apr 21 23:49:00 <woodwizzle> AStorm: oh sweet.
Apr 21 23:49:07 <Mousey> next thing i know, i'll be installing sratchbox and crosscompiling my brains out and CONTRIBUTING and crap!!
Apr 21 23:49:14 <Mousey> *sigh*
Apr 21 23:49:16 <AStorm> Mousey: have you already flashed in .51 version?
Apr 21 23:49:21 <Mousey> AStorm: no
Apr 21 23:49:23 <Mousey> well
Apr 21 23:49:24 <Mousey> i did
Apr 21 23:49:29 <woodwizzle> AStorm: does the cam work in skype? (if you upgrade skype)
Apr 21 23:49:33 <Mousey> but then i sent it to PALCO, and when i got it back, it was the old version again
Apr 21 23:49:33 <AStorm> .50 has a nasty bug, but I think .49 is shipped
Apr 21 23:49:39 <AStorm> woodwizzle: no, it isn't on N810 either
Apr 21 23:49:57 <woodwizzle> AStorm: damn, then whats the point?
Apr 21 23:49:59 <AStorm> Mousey: N8xx or N770?
Apr 21 23:50:01 <AStorm> woodwizzle: SIP
Apr 21 23:50:03 <AStorm> :>
Apr 21 23:50:07 <Mousey> n810
Apr 21 23:50:16 <AStorm> Mousey: mhm
Apr 21 23:50:18 <woodwizzle> AStorm: is that like Ekiga?
Apr 21 23:50:29 <AStorm> woodwizzle: yes, Ekiga uses SIP protocol
Apr 21 23:50:29 <GeneralAntilles> Gizmo
Apr 21 23:50:34 <AStorm> Gizmo too
Apr 21 23:50:46 <woodwizzle> I couldn't ever get Ekiga to work under gnome, and all my buddies use skype :(
Apr 21 23:50:54 <AStorm> heh
Apr 21 23:51:00 <Navi> Skype is annoying
Apr 21 23:51:07 <AStorm> another hit - that Skype 1.4 doesn't support conferences
Apr 21 23:51:07 <Mousey> can't we all just SIP along?
Apr 21 23:51:21 <AStorm> and tends to stutter and die on heavier CPU load
Apr 21 23:51:22 <Mousey> AStorm: and skype on n8x0 doesn't support video
Apr 21 23:51:27 <AStorm> Mousey: exactly
Apr 21 23:51:28 <woodwizzle> Yeah, so is AIM, but I use it over jabber simply because its what the people i know use
Apr 21 23:51:39 * Mousey jabbers all the time jabbers all the time
Apr 21 23:51:43 <Navi> Skype likes to be the most popular VoIP service, even though there are better alternatives
Apr 21 23:51:46 <AStorm> actually, AIM <<<< Jabber
Apr 21 23:51:55 <AStorm> Navi: better? nope
Apr 21 23:51:58 <AStorm> more open, yes
Apr 21 23:52:12 <GeneralAntilles> These days AIM IS Jabber.
Apr 21 23:52:16 <hrw> re
Apr 21 23:52:20 <AStorm> their protocol is really nice, and they found a great way to turn users into zombies^Wrouters
Apr 21 23:52:29 <Mousey> GeneralAntilles: blah.. nonsense. i run my own jabber server
Apr 21 23:52:34 <AStorm> GeneralAntilles: more or less
Apr 21 23:52:35 <hrw> night watch with daughter ;(
Apr 21 23:52:36 <Mousey> i can't run my own AIM server
Apr 21 23:52:43 <Mousey> and aim + ssl = not!
Apr 21 23:52:47 <elb> GeneralAntilles: AIM is not jabber
Apr 21 23:52:47 <Navi> You can log into AIM using the official gtalk client now
Apr 21 23:52:49 <GeneralAntilles> Erm, Mousey, AOL is moving over to Jabber. . .
Apr 21 23:52:54 <Mousey> XMPP maybe
Apr 21 23:53:02 <AStorm> Navi: over a gateway
Apr 21 23:53:05 <Navi> Nah
Apr 21 23:53:05 <Mousey> GeneralAntilles: oh, well it's about time
Apr 21 23:53:06 <elb> there is a beta xmpp AIM service, but it's ... not very stable
Apr 21 23:53:14 <Navi> AStorm, not a transport
Apr 21 23:53:17 <AStorm> things are changing
Apr 21 23:53:22 <AStorm> I want people to use Jingle
Apr 21 23:53:32 <AStorm> and more Jingle clients to support video
Apr 21 23:53:38 <AStorm> :-)
Apr 21 23:53:43 <AStorm> it owns SIP
Apr 21 23:53:54 <hrw> AStorm: .51.3 does not differ from .50 release - only bootloader was changed. but for some devices (like mine n810) this was BIG change
Apr 21 23:54:01 <elb> I don't know that I'd say that
Apr 21 23:54:04 <Mousey> people should all just run their own Asterisk boxes and get it over with
Apr 21 23:54:07 <AStorm> actually, Jingle->SIP gateway would be easy
Apr 21 23:54:10 <elb> jingle and SIP aren't really in the same space
Apr 21 23:54:18 <AStorm> as Jingle allows the use of RTSP
Apr 21 23:54:36 <AStorm> elb: they are
Apr 21 23:54:39 <woodwizzle> Yeah,but my point still stands. IM protocols are only as good as the people that use them. I could write a flawless open source  protocol that could do 1080p video over dialup. But if the people I want to talk to don't use it, it becomes less functional than skype for me
Apr 21 23:54:43 <AStorm> Jingle is also XMPP negotiation protocol
Apr 21 23:54:56 <elb> AStorm: no, SIP is its own session protocol, jingle requires XMPP
Apr 21 23:54:59 <AStorm> woodwizzle: convert the heathens!
Apr 21 23:55:03 <AStorm> elb: yes
Apr 21 23:55:08 <woodwizzle> AStorm: I try
Apr 21 23:55:08 <elb> well, "jingle" is several things
Apr 21 23:55:09 <AStorm> but a gateway would be trivial
Apr 21 23:55:30 <elb> but the session part of jingle is an extension to XMPP, which already does a large part of what one wants a session management protocol to do
Apr 21 23:55:40 <AStorm> exactly
Apr 21 23:55:46 <woodwizzle> we need a big vender like google to make it more mainstream. Google talk is on the way.
Apr 21 23:55:52 <AStorm> I mean, Jingle -> SIP is easy
Apr 21 23:56:01 <AStorm> esp. if your Jingle client supports RTSP
Apr 21 23:56:08 <AStorm> woodwizzle: sure
Apr 21 23:56:18 <elb> SIP can use a transport other than RTSP
Apr 21 23:56:24 <AStorm> but doesn't usually
Apr 21 23:56:29 <elb> SIP is nothing but session negotiation, it doesn't care what you negotiate
Apr 21 23:56:34 <AStorm> the only other I know are H.26x
Apr 21 23:56:42 <AStorm> s/are/are in use/
Apr 21 23:56:44 <infobot> AStorm meant: the only other I know are in use H.26x
Apr 21 23:56:52 <AStorm> blah
Apr 21 23:57:04 <AStorm> *are in use are
Apr 21 23:57:06 <elb> anyway, XMPP + Jingle is fine
Apr 21 23:57:11 <elb> a bit heavy weight, but still
Apr 21 23:57:17 <AStorm> not that heavy weight
Apr 21 23:57:17 <elb> SIP is baroque in its own way
Apr 21 23:57:21 <elb> pretty damn heavy
Apr 21 23:57:24 <woodwizzle> Other than a slide out keyboard. Does the n810 have anything the n800 doesn't?
Apr 21 23:57:31 <woodwizzle> oh and crummy GPS.
Apr 21 23:57:39 <elb> requiring XML + all the namespaces crap is the definition of heavy :-P
Apr 21 23:57:42 <AStorm> woodwizzle: micro-USB
Apr 21 23:57:50 <woodwizzle> AStorm: oooh
Apr 21 23:57:50 <AStorm> miniSD port
Apr 21 23:57:54 <GeneralAntilles> transflective screen.
Apr 21 23:58:05 <elb> yes, transflective screen is important
Apr 21 23:58:05 <AStorm> ah, yes, the screen, which is very nice in sunlight
Apr 21 23:58:11 <woodwizzle> yeah but I'm really leaning twoards the n800 for its 2 full size SD ports
Apr 21 23:58:16 <AStorm> but still glares too much ;)
Apr 21 23:58:36 <GeneralAntilles> That's what screen protectors are for, AStorm.
Apr 21 23:58:37 <AStorm> keyboard transforms N800 into a real computer
Apr 21 23:58:47 <AStorm> GeneralAntilles: sure, I still have to get some good ones
Apr 21 23:58:53 <woodwizzle> A real old computer =)
Apr 21 23:59:04 <AStorm> no, ubernew high-tech ;>
Apr 21 23:59:06 <woodwizzle> i mean common, 400mhz???
Apr 21 23:59:12 <AStorm> just with limited CPU power and memory
Apr 21 23:59:24 <hrw>  /cr
Apr 21 23:59:29 <AStorm> woodwizzle: it's as powerful as a typical Core Solo
Apr 21 23:59:35 <AStorm> it's ARM, not some x86
Apr 21 23:59:43 <AStorm> and has a DSP :>
Apr 21 23:59:55 <woodwizzle> no 3D accel, and limited RAM
Apr 22 00:00:07 <AStorm> sorry, 3D accel is there, somewhat
Apr 22 00:00:16 <AStorm> but w/o a driver yet
Apr 22 00:00:19 <AStorm> :P
Apr 22 00:00:22 <woodwizzle> its software isn't
Apr 22 00:00:23 <GeneralAntilles> The idea is to be able to run on a reasonably sized battery for more than 30 seconds.
Apr 22 00:00:34 <AStorm> yup
Apr 22 00:00:36 <woodwizzle> Oh really? It has 3d accel but no drivers?
Apr 22 00:00:50 <AStorm> woodwizzle: yes, the same chip as in N95
Apr 22 00:00:56 <AStorm> or was it N96
Apr 22 00:01:00 <GeneralAntilles> There's potential technical issues involved with 3d accel beyond just the drivers, though.
Apr 22 00:01:03 <woodwizzle> Odd choice for an open platform from the start
Apr 22 00:01:06 <AStorm> GeneralAntilles: minor
Apr 22 00:01:14 <AStorm> woodwizzle: no better one, really
Apr 22 00:01:20 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe maybe not, AStorm.
Apr 22 00:01:23 <AStorm> want to put an Intel chip?
Apr 22 00:01:41 <AStorm> when TI has that integrated PowerVR (NDAized, unfortunately)
Apr 22 00:02:17 <AStorm> GeneralAntilles: no, really not
Apr 22 00:02:37 <AStorm> certain people managed to make SDL run some things on IVA
Apr 22 00:02:40 <AStorm> :P
Apr 22 00:02:45 <woodwizzle> I recently got my tax refund. I'm thinking about getting the n800 + bluetooth keyboard and GPS. Then I wouldn't need to get me a portable ogg/flac player (which are hard to find), but I'm also tempted to wait for the new EEE. Its got mroe power. up to 2 gigs of ram, 3d accel and compiz. But of course, doesn't fit in my pocket
Apr 22 00:03:00 <Navi> They're not that hard
Apr 22 00:03:08 <AStorm> woodwizzle: s/hard to find/any iRivier can play OGG/
Apr 22 00:03:17 <AStorm> flac is harder though
Apr 22 00:03:27 <Navi> for a media player, the Cowon iAudio D2 can do OGG/FLAC and has great sound output
Apr 22 00:03:33 <AStorm> woodwizzle: no, eee is different class
Apr 22 00:03:42 <AStorm> yes, that Cowon is an excellent PMP
Apr 22 00:03:48 <Navi> SDHC slots for memory expansion as well
Apr 22 00:03:55 <woodwizzle> AStorm:  Yeah, but the only iRiver that I'm interested in is the Clix. and its like $250 for an 8 gig player and thats not including shipping since they aren't sold locally.
Apr 22 00:04:07 <AStorm> woodwizzle: Cowon iAudio?
Apr 22 00:04:22 <Navi> Good battery life on the D2 to boot
Apr 22 00:04:26 <AStorm> well, N8x0 is moderate in video playback
Apr 22 00:04:39 <AStorm> but has just good battery life
Apr 22 00:04:44 <AStorm> not excellent
Apr 22 00:04:49 <woodwizzle> AStorm: ugh, i love that it supports ogg and flac, but its a crummy interface compared to most other generic players
Apr 22 00:04:59 <Navi> woodwizzle, it does
Apr 22 00:05:11 <Navi> but I find that the memory expansion and sound quality makes up for it
Apr 22 00:05:30 <AStorm> N8x0 are much more versatile
Apr 22 00:05:44 <woodwizzle> the n800 though is 200. and I can get up to 32gigs in it. Not to mention stream last.fm stations etc.
Apr 22 00:05:45 <Navi> Anyways, I'm not much for the Eees
Apr 22 00:05:50 <AStorm> audio quality is on par with my iRivier T20
Apr 22 00:05:54 <AStorm> which is good
Apr 22 00:06:09 <Navi> I liked it when they promised the Eee for 200 bucks
Apr 22 00:06:19 <AStorm> nowhere near
Apr 22 00:06:26 <GeneralAntilles> 64GB, woodwizzle.
Apr 22 00:06:27 <Navi> and that was the uncrippled spec'ed Eee
Apr 22 00:06:27 <GeneralAntilles> More, later.
Apr 22 00:06:29 <AStorm> it's impossible with that hardware
Apr 22 00:06:44 <woodwizzle> The eee seems awesome from all the reviews and such, but I wish the res was higher *which it will be soon" or it was small enought to fit in my pocket
Apr 22 00:06:45 <Navi> but it's more than doubled in pricing
Apr 22 00:06:45 <AStorm> unless prices fall very much
Apr 22 00:07:01 <AStorm> woodwizzle: it's not the aim
Apr 22 00:07:05 <woodwizzle> GeneralAntilles: I can't find 32gb chips anywhere, i can only find the 16gigs
Apr 22 00:07:05 <Navi> so I was pretty disappointed in it
Apr 22 00:07:09 <AStorm> eeePC is just a cheap subnotebook
Apr 22 00:07:13 <GeneralAntilles> Wait a month or two.
Apr 22 00:07:17 <AStorm> N8x0 is like, a UMPC
Apr 22 00:07:22 <GeneralAntilles> I was assuming you thought it was a hardware limit, anyway.
Apr 22 00:07:45 <AStorm> the form factor of n810 can't be improved much
Apr 22 00:07:55 <AStorm> maybe put some scroll button ;)
Apr 22 00:08:02 <AStorm> on the right side
Apr 22 00:08:10 <GeneralAntilles> I'd dig a scroll wheel.
Apr 22 00:08:11 <AStorm> or a scroll touchpad
Apr 22 00:08:21 <woodwizzle> GeneralAntilles: Yeah but even in a few months, the 32gig chips will more than likely cost more than double the cost of the 16gigs. Not worth it in the end. Prolly have to wait close to a year till they're affordable
Apr 22 00:08:24 <AStorm> wheels are too large
Apr 22 00:08:33 <Navi> I'd go for a trackball
Apr 22 00:08:37 <Navi> but those need cleaning
Apr 22 00:08:42 <woodwizzle> I found some 16gigs online for around $60 each. Not bad at all
Apr 22 00:08:43 <AStorm> Navi: still too large
Apr 22 00:08:44 <GeneralAntilles> Little one like on the Clies.
Apr 22 00:08:50 <Navi> AStorm, they're not that bid.
Apr 22 00:08:57 <Navi> s/d/g/
Apr 22 00:08:57 <infobot> Navi meant: AStorm, they're not that big.
Apr 22 00:09:08 <AStorm> infobot: stfu, please ;)
Apr 22 00:09:26 <Navi> Or, they can get pretty slow
Apr 22 00:09:27 <Navi> damn it
Apr 22 00:09:31 <Navi> they can get pretty small
Apr 22 00:09:32 <GeneralAntilles> Put him on ignore, AStorm.
Apr 22 00:09:35 <hrw> n810 lack cursors
Apr 22 00:09:43 <AStorm> GeneralAntilles: it has some useful utils
Apr 22 00:09:47 <Navi> Take the Blackberry Pearl or Sidekick
Apr 22 00:09:53 <Navi> for example
Apr 22 00:09:54 <AStorm> hrw: no, it has that nice dpad
Apr 22 00:10:03 <AStorm> for me it's good enough
Apr 22 00:10:07 <hrw> opening device to use cursors (which are non-comfortable) is :(
Apr 22 00:10:21 <AStorm> why do you need cursors with a touchscreen?
Apr 22 00:10:22 <hrw> AStorm: there are nicer solutions for dpad
Apr 22 00:10:31 <AStorm> I'd rather have a touchpad
Apr 22 00:10:38 <woodwizzle> there are only a few things holding me back on the n800. I've heard mix reviews of the battery life which kinda scare me,  and I dunno how useful it'll be when I'm not around free wifi.
Apr 22 00:10:39 <AStorm> for scrolling etc.
Apr 22 00:10:52 <hrw> AStorm: some lists are more usefull with cursors navigation then toiching
Apr 22 00:10:56 <Navi> Having a touch pad with a touch screen is a bit weird to me.
Apr 22 00:11:08 <GeneralAntilles> Some of the HPs have touchpads.
Apr 22 00:11:10 <AStorm> Navi: to not make the screen dirty
Apr 22 00:11:12 <Mousey> woodwizzle: i use my n810 over bluetooth when there's no wifi, i couldn't live without my n810.. which is why i'm upset it's not booting rt now
Apr 22 00:11:14 <AStorm> and cover it while scrolling
Apr 22 00:11:23 <Navi> Eh
Apr 22 00:11:26 <woodwizzle> Mousey: bluetooth with a cell phone data plan?
Apr 22 00:11:29 <AStorm> woodwizzle: battery life is ok
Apr 22 00:11:38 <AStorm> 4-5h usage on wifi
Apr 22 00:11:38 <GeneralAntilles> Battery life is fine.
Apr 22 00:11:41 <Mousey> woodwizzle: yea, sprint, $15 a month unlimited internet
Apr 22 00:11:46 <AStorm> and I do mean usage*
Apr 22 00:11:49 <Mousey> 70+Kps
Apr 22 00:12:00 <blast007> is there a way to add a button to the os2008 terminal that would trigger a Ctrl+a?
Apr 22 00:12:04 <woodwizzle> I have a good data plan on my cell phone, I hadn't considered doing that... that might push me over the edge
Apr 22 00:12:08 <AStorm> when not used, it doesn't drain the battery almost anything
Apr 22 00:12:28 <Navi> That is, if wifi's not being taken
Apr 22 00:12:31 <GeneralAntilles> Idling on wifi will get you about 2-4 days.
Apr 22 00:12:32 <AStorm> blast007: ctrl+a ;P
Apr 22 00:12:39 <GeneralAntilles> Idling disconnected gets about 8-12
Apr 22 00:12:43 <AStorm> GeneralAntilles: exactly
Apr 22 00:12:58 <AStorm> but who idles on wifi ;)
Apr 22 00:13:09 <GeneralAntilles> Me
Apr 22 00:13:12 <Navi> It's a noticeable drain if you leave it overnight or something
Apr 22 00:13:19 <AStorm> Navi: yes
Apr 22 00:13:19 <GeneralAntilles> Whenever I'm at a place with wifi.
Apr 22 00:13:21 <Navi> say, by accident.
Apr 22 00:13:24 <AStorm> but still small
Apr 22 00:13:32 <AStorm> GeneralAntilles: that's usage, not idling ;)
Apr 22 00:13:41 <AStorm> reading web pages = usage
Apr 22 00:13:45 <GeneralAntilles> No, it's connected to wifi ALL THE TIME.
Apr 22 00:13:47 <AStorm> chatting with people  = usage
Apr 22 00:13:52 <AStorm> ah, that
Apr 22 00:13:52 <blast007> AStorm: I mean without using that "Ctrl" button.  ;)   I use screen a lot, so it'd be nice to have a faster button
Apr 22 00:13:59 <lcuk> mine is dead as a doornail if i leave it on overnight disconnected. always has been
Apr 22 00:14:01 <AStorm> blast007: n800?
Apr 22 00:14:05 <blast007> yup
Apr 22 00:14:11 <GeneralAntilles> Something's broken, then, lcuk.
Apr 22 00:14:17 <GeneralAntilles> metalayer-crawler is a possibility.
Apr 22 00:14:17 <AStorm> lcuk: hmmhmm, doesn't happen here
Apr 22 00:14:26 <AStorm> something is grabbing cpu on your n
Apr 22 00:14:29 <lcuk> no - i think its the ad-hoc wifi instead of proper basestation
Apr 22 00:14:31 <woodwizzle> I think a keyboard would be super handy too. I mean if I'm online and wanna IM or email a keyboard is almost necesary. I'm used to cell phone qwerty pads so the n810's is appealing to me.  but the mini SD card and doubled price kills it for me. I've seen that iGo bluetooth keyboard which is very cool too. But its not really  something you can pull outta your pocket at any second. You gotta have a place to sit down with that
Apr 22 00:14:34 <AStorm> lcuk: no
Apr 22 00:14:37 <AStorm> I have ad-hoc too
Apr 22 00:14:52 <GeneralAntilles> woodwizzle, the fullscreen keyboard on the N800 is very usable.
Apr 22 00:14:55 <Navi> woodwizzle, nah, the touch keyboard is more than enough for IM
Apr 22 00:15:09 <woodwizzle> yeah??
Apr 22 00:15:10 <GeneralAntilles> Personally, I find it to be better than the iPhone's (though that may have more to do with familiarity than anything).
Apr 22 00:15:12 <woodwizzle> hmmmm
Apr 22 00:15:16 <AStorm> woodwizzle: exactly, it is
Apr 22 00:15:22 <AStorm> N810 is great for my coding though
Apr 22 00:15:34 <fysa> I totally hate the onscreen touch keyboard, but admit that is is perfectly usable for IM.
Apr 22 00:15:34 <AStorm> coding on the run is made of win
Apr 22 00:15:40 <blast007> AStorm: ah, the N810 has a Ctrl button on the slide-out keyboard
Apr 22 00:15:44 <AStorm> yes
Apr 22 00:15:46 <Navi> Though, if you write long emails all the time, you might as well get a keyboard, either USB or BT
Apr 22 00:15:51 <AStorm> although they don't have it locking
Apr 22 00:16:04 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: fullscreen keyboard is good to train memory. during writing long texts you have to remember what you wrote few words ago because entry field is very small
Apr 22 00:16:13 <AStorm> rotfl
Apr 22 00:16:21 <GeneralAntilles> Meh, it's not that bad.
Apr 22 00:16:25 <fysa> haha
Apr 22 00:16:37 <AStorm> the most important thing is lack of tactile feedback
Apr 22 00:16:47 <Navi> Yeh
Apr 22 00:16:48 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: I know - I wrote long blog post in December when was going back from UK
Apr 22 00:16:50 <AStorm> takes a bit of time to get used to it
Apr 22 00:16:57 <fysa> yeah, I have a tendency to spend an hour carefully crafting an important email.
Apr 22 00:17:00 <hrw> AStorm: n810 keyb?
Apr 22 00:17:03 * Mousey huggles his hardware keyboard
Apr 22 00:17:10 <fysa> and I can barely remember what I wrote on a regular desktop..
Apr 22 00:17:22 <Navi> fysa, same
Apr 22 00:17:23 <GeneralAntilles> I'm really not a fan of the hardware keyboard and slider.
Apr 22 00:17:23 <AStorm> hrw: no, on-screen
Apr 22 00:17:43 <AStorm> GeneralAntilles: hw keyboard is very nice after a tiny bit of practice
Apr 22 00:17:45 <woodwizzle> do SNES emulators run good on the n800 =)
Apr 22 00:17:57 <AStorm> woodwizzle: there is one, runs well afaicr
Apr 22 00:18:06 <hrw> AStorm: I used onscreen keyboards on palmos devices. then moved to zauruses so hardware keyboard was a must for me
Apr 22 00:18:07 <Navi> All the emulators suck
Apr 22 00:18:15 <fysa> NES is good
Apr 22 00:18:24 <Navi> unless you turn off sound, then it's okay
Apr 22 00:18:31 <fysa> SNES is playable if you have a bt keyboard or gamepad
Apr 22 00:18:32 <hrw> AStorm: 770 was hard to use after zaurus... probably thats why I nearly did not used it
Apr 22 00:18:38 <fysa> (RPGs)
Apr 22 00:18:56 <AStorm> or N810 keyboard, duh
Apr 22 00:18:59 <fysa> right
Apr 22 00:19:00 <fysa> haha
Apr 22 00:19:02 <Navi> Heh
Apr 22 00:19:03 * fysa bangs head
Apr 22 00:19:18 <AStorm> the dpad is very similar to old gameboy's in usage
Apr 22 00:19:22 <woodwizzle> fysa: ugg I couldn't carry a bluetooth gamepad everywhere if I might wanna bust out some chrono trigger
Apr 22 00:19:26 <AStorm> but is on the left, which is funny ;P
Apr 22 00:19:30 <AStorm> good for me though ;P
Apr 22 00:19:39 <fysa> woodwizzle, N810 kb is fine..  prob is N800 doesn't have enough buttons
Apr 22 00:20:32 <woodwizzle> aaaarrrrgh
Apr 22 00:20:34 <AStorm> n810 kb would be even finer if they split shift keys
Apr 22 00:20:47 <AStorm> and used accessx properly for locking ctrl
Apr 22 00:20:48 <Navi> woodwizzle, that's what I do.
Apr 22 00:20:56 <Navi> carry around my Wiimote everywhere
Apr 22 00:20:58 <hrw> AStorm: o yes - would be easier to hack own keymap then
Apr 22 00:21:03 <woodwizzle> Navi: lol
Apr 22 00:21:05 <AStorm> bonus if they make chr a real modifier
Apr 22 00:21:05 <fysa> haha
Apr 22 00:21:17 <hrw> AStorm: I have Chr as modifier
Apr 22 00:21:19 <AStorm> it can be one (we do that in our layouts)
Apr 22 00:21:23 <lcuk> the wiimote has a cpu doesnt it?
Apr 22 00:21:25 <AStorm> hrw: I mean prints
Apr 22 00:21:27 <woodwizzle> Navi: can you use the wiimote as a SNES emulator controler with an n800?
Apr 22 00:21:29 <hrw> ah
Apr 22 00:21:34 <woodwizzle> cuz I have wiimotes
Apr 22 00:21:36 <Navi> woodwizzle, sure
Apr 22 00:21:48 <Navi> connect to bluetooth using wminput
Apr 22 00:21:48 <AStorm> woodwizzle: it's a USB joystick, right?
Apr 22 00:21:49 <hrw> I wonder when maemo mapper will support n810 hw keyboard for keys config
Apr 22 00:21:53 <AStorm> or bluetooth?
Apr 22 00:22:04 <woodwizzle> Navi: really? Its not a trouble to get drivers or anything
Apr 22 00:22:09 <AStorm> hrw: what for?
Apr 22 00:22:10 <woodwizzle> thats damn tempting again
Apr 22 00:22:23 <fysa> asic?
Apr 22 00:22:28 <Navi> just follow the instructions over in ITT for cwiid
Apr 22 00:22:31 <hrw> AStorm: n810 has less keys when closed then n800/770....
Apr 22 00:22:37 <Navi> though, I want to check out that alternative too
Apr 22 00:22:46 <AStorm> hrw: yeah, no arrow
Apr 22 00:22:49 <woodwizzle> still then you gotta hold the wiimote and set down the n800
Apr 22 00:22:54 <AStorm> but it's enough
Apr 22 00:23:05 <AStorm> woodwizzle: why?
Apr 22 00:23:05 <woodwizzle> not handy for standing in line or something
Apr 22 00:23:06 <Navi> woodwizzle, that's why the kickstand is useful.
Apr 22 00:23:07 <fysa> how often do you use with the keyboard closed?
Apr 22 00:23:10 <AStorm> nxxx is small enough
Apr 22 00:23:20 <AStorm> fysa: in GPS usage? always
Apr 22 00:23:21 <Navi> woodwizzle, hold the wiimote + n800
Apr 22 00:23:28 <hrw> AStorm: anyway I still not bought HH-12 to be able to mount n810 in a car. probably sooner will buy winCE navigator then use n810 as car navi
Apr 22 00:23:38 <AStorm> woodwizzle: fashion yourself a hand attachment for n800
Apr 22 00:23:47 <AStorm> hrw: neither have I ;)
Apr 22 00:24:03 <woodwizzle> AStorm: I don't wanna have to fashion things
Apr 22 00:24:20 <AStorm> woodwizzle: a piece of cloth, d'oh
Apr 22 00:24:26 <AStorm> to fasten it to the hand
Apr 22 00:24:31 <Navi> woodwizzle, I can hold the wiimote+n800 and use the kickstand to help keep the N800 up
Apr 22 00:24:39 <AStorm> like a wristband
Apr 22 00:24:53 <Navi> As long as it's not a fast-pace game or anything, it's fine
Apr 22 00:24:53 <AStorm> yup, kickstand is ok, but too thin
Apr 22 00:24:54 <woodwizzle> I think I'm just gonna haveta get one
Apr 22 00:24:55 <AStorm> hurts hand
Apr 22 00:25:22 <AStorm> it's not really a handguard ;)
Apr 22 00:25:40 <Navi> Well, when I play wiimote+N800 standing up
Apr 22 00:25:56 <Navi> I have the kickstand all the way out, ring and middle fingers around it
Apr 22 00:26:13 <GeneralAntilles> <_<
Apr 22 00:26:27 <Navi> palm and thumbs on the wiimote, index fingers along the N800's sides
Apr 22 00:26:44 <GeneralAntilles> Navi deserves . . . some sort of . . . award for that. . . .
Apr 22 00:26:55 <AStorm> blah?
Apr 22 00:27:06 <Navi> as long as I'm not playing while laying on my back, I can keep it up
Apr 22 00:27:08 <AStorm> I'm holding my N810 that way when it's not standing
Apr 22 00:27:46 <AStorm> but, a real handguard would be extra nice
Apr 22 00:27:56 <GeneralAntilles> Navi's that "crazy kid with the iPhone and Wiimote" on campus.
Apr 22 00:27:58 <AStorm> have to make one
Apr 22 00:28:02 <AStorm> rotfl
Apr 22 00:28:11 <Navi> Haha
Apr 22 00:28:34 <Navi> Hey, I'm able to get introverts to ask me about the N800
Apr 22 00:28:47 <AStorm> N8x0 really commands attention
Apr 22 00:28:49 <Navi> so I'm awesome enough.
Apr 22 00:28:55 <lcuk> they want to keep you talking whilst the men in suits come and take you away ;)
Apr 22 00:28:56 <AStorm> unlike PSP or GBA
Apr 22 00:29:04 <AStorm> lcuk: rotfl
Apr 22 00:29:15 <AStorm> no, they want to steal Nxxx
Apr 22 00:29:15 <AStorm> really
Apr 22 00:29:28 <AStorm> esp. DON'T give it to girls
Apr 22 00:29:33 <AStorm> really. I mean it.
Apr 22 00:29:37 <Navi> I've had a few people told me they used to own an N800
Apr 22 00:29:42 <Navi> but have sold it
Apr 22 00:29:50 <AStorm> and now they have N810? ;P
Apr 22 00:29:59 <AStorm> or N96?
Apr 22 00:30:02 <Navi> Now they have a blackberry
Apr 22 00:30:08 <AStorm> ah, blackberry
Apr 22 00:30:15 <Navi> Blackberrys are really the in thing this year
Apr 22 00:30:19 <AStorm> rotfl
Apr 22 00:30:29 <AStorm> they're unusable here due to lack of service
Apr 22 00:30:36 <hrw> AStorm: poland?
Apr 22 00:30:36 <Navi> Haha, yeah
Apr 22 00:30:41 <AStorm> hrw: indeed
Apr 22 00:30:49 <Navi> I like to tease my friends when the service is down
Apr 22 00:31:00 <hrw> AStorm: I am planning to buy windowsmobile phone this year
Apr 22 00:31:04 <Navi> "Oh, what's that? You can't check your email?"
Apr 22 00:31:13 <AStorm> hrw: you'll be mad soon
Apr 22 00:31:16 <Navi> "I'll do it for you on my N800."
Apr 22 00:31:16 <lcuk> they like to tease you when you hold aloft your mighty wiimote+n800 combo ..
Apr 22 00:31:32 <AStorm> lcuk: that would indeed look mad
Apr 22 00:31:33 <lcuk> (it does sound cool actually)
Apr 22 00:31:36 <Navi> lcuk, the wiimote is made out of some damned durable plastic
Apr 22 00:31:38 <GAN800> Ha
Apr 22 00:31:47 <hrw> AStorm: maybe, but with current phone I feel more and more limited
Apr 22 00:31:50 <GAN800> Crime deterent!
Apr 22 00:31:51 <Navi> I have a weapon of mass destruction
Apr 22 00:31:55 <hrw> AStorm: and maemo lack PIM
Apr 22 00:32:07 <AStorm> well, GPM pim suite isn't *that* bad
Apr 22 00:32:12 <Navi> It isn't
Apr 22 00:32:13 <AStorm> it beats some phones ;P
Apr 22 00:32:19 <GAN800> If it can destroy a plasma tv, it can most certainly bash in a skull
Apr 22 00:32:20 <AStorm> needs a bit more integration
Apr 22 00:32:21 <Navi> If Pimlico was still being actively developed, it'd be great
Apr 22 00:32:29 <hrw> AStorm: and do not use maemo contacts...
Apr 22 00:32:37 <AStorm> hrw: blah, contacts
Apr 22 00:32:43 <AStorm> who needs PIM to govern them?
Apr 22 00:32:46 <hrw> Navi: pimlico guys have other things to do
Apr 22 00:32:47 <Navi> GAN800, destroy a plasma TV AND the wall behind it, without getting scratched.
Apr 22 00:32:55 <Navi> hrw, oh, I wasn't judging them
Apr 22 00:33:14 <hrw> AStorm: would be nice to have connection IM<>addressbook with communication history
Apr 22 00:33:19 <Navi> hrw, just disappointed that development's grind to a stop
Apr 22 00:33:20 <hrw> AStorm: look at PalmOS Agendus
Apr 22 00:33:34 <AStorm> well, yup, a minor extension of Contacts applet
Apr 22 00:33:44 <hrw> Navi: Dates needs Hildon port of openmoko version
Apr 22 00:33:58 <AStorm> Dates needs a release of their SVN version
Apr 22 00:34:04 <AStorm> which has recurrence
Apr 22 00:34:18 <Navi> The latest SVN of Dates is just the stable release
Apr 22 00:34:24 <AStorm> could use some integration too
Apr 22 00:34:28 <AStorm> with alarmd
Apr 22 00:34:28 <Navi> at least, that's what they've marked it as
Apr 22 00:35:13 <chrisak> would it be possible to launch /usr/bin/chat-ui directy to #maemo (I'm experimenting w/ personal-menu ideas)
Apr 22 00:35:24 <AStorm> well, yes
Apr 22 00:35:45 <AStorm> but then, XChat owns that chat-ui three times
Apr 22 00:35:54 <AStorm> or more
Apr 22 00:35:55 <hrw> AStorm: Dates was rewritten few months ago. now it is libjana + Openmoko frontend
Apr 22 00:36:03 <AStorm> hrw: noticed
Apr 22 00:36:12 <AStorm> is the N810 build redone already?
Apr 22 00:36:20 <AStorm> still, I want alarmd integration
Apr 22 00:36:26 <hrw> AStorm: and other Openmoko apps use libjana for pim data
Apr 22 00:38:04 <AStorm> blah, my Nokia has just crashed
Apr 22 00:38:05 <AStorm> neat
Apr 22 00:38:16 <hrw> get used to it
Apr 22 00:38:20 <AStorm> most likely canola overdrove the charger too badly
Apr 22 00:38:22 <AStorm> no no
Apr 22 00:38:31 <AStorm> it said "recharge battery" then reboot ;P
Apr 22 00:39:50 <AStorm> nah, battery is charged mostly
Apr 22 00:40:12 <AStorm> so, a software fluke ;)
Apr 22 00:40:22 <AStorm> or the battery has loose contacts
Apr 22 00:43:40 <AStorm> powerlaunch is causing weird problems too ;>
Apr 22 00:44:06 <hrw> powerlaunch is that taskbar thing to run apps?
Apr 22 00:44:10 <AStorm> no
Apr 22 00:44:22 <AStorm> the one that launches using hw keys
Apr 22 00:44:28 <AStorm> and adds reboot menu options
Apr 22 00:44:58 <Navi> I've been wondering
Apr 22 00:45:06 <Navi> is powerlaunch themeable or something?
Apr 22 00:45:24 <Navi> 'cuz it kinda looks ugly in the screenshots
Apr 22 00:45:30 <GAN800> glade
Apr 22 00:47:31 * hrw wants appmenus with os2007 look
Apr 22 00:47:53 <hrw> and transparent simple launcher :D
Apr 22 00:50:02 <trollasaurus> hrw, Who is the creator of the "config.mtd" that you are using for your Nokia N800 Qemu successful emulation ?  I want to try to get a copy from them to help me fix my instructions ( http://www.rkeene.org/projects/info/wiki/106 )
Apr 22 00:54:23 <hrw> trollasaurus: sorry but cant
Apr 22 00:55:44 <trollasaurus> Can't what ?
Apr 22 00:56:00 <hrw> share those infos
Apr 22 00:56:26 <trollasaurus> Why not ?
Apr 22 01:00:48 <trollasaurus> Most of it's already on your "blog" -- I just don't know who Richard is.
Apr 22 01:01:53 <hrw> ok - its 03:00 here
Apr 22 01:01:56 <hrw> time to sleep
Apr 22 01:01:57 <hrw> bye
Apr 22 01:02:14 <woodwizzle> I have an x86 elf binary for linux. Its a command line program and it isn't open source. Can I somehow run that on maemo
Apr 22 01:02:29 <trollasaurus> You would need to use QEMU
Apr 22 01:05:05 <woodwizzle> awesome
Apr 22 01:07:25 <trollasaurus> Awesome is the fact that Nokia's website doesn't work on a Nokia device :-P
Apr 22 01:08:12 <woodwizzle> what about USB? is there like a bluetooth USB hub
Apr 22 01:08:22 <trollasaurus> What ?
Apr 22 01:08:23 <shapr> huh?
Apr 22 01:08:35 <woodwizzle> to get USB on the n800
Apr 22 01:08:36 <shapr> You can do USB HID over Bluetooth.
Apr 22 01:08:46 <shapr> In fact, that's how bluetooth keyboards and mice work.
Apr 22 01:09:13 <trollasaurus> You can do USB on the N800, I assume, just like the 770, right ?
Apr 22 01:09:25 <GeneralAntilles> woodwizzle, just use the USB port that's on the device.
Apr 22 01:09:26 <GeneralAntilles> It's OTG
Apr 22 01:10:06 <woodwizzle> GeneralAntilles: the n800 has USB ports?
Apr 22 01:10:18 <trollasaurus> Duh :-P
Apr 22 01:10:20 <GeneralAntilles> port
Apr 22 01:11:19 <woodwizzle> i misunderstood then, that is beautiful
Apr 22 01:11:47 <trollasaurus> You'll need a USB OTG cable
Apr 22 01:12:34 <woodwizzle> what is OTG
Apr 22 01:14:16 <trollasaurus> "On-The-Go" (IIRC)
Apr 22 01:14:39 <woodwizzle> is that different than mini USB?
Apr 22 01:15:36 <GeneralAntilles> No
Apr 22 01:15:40 <GeneralAntilles> You can just switch it in software
Apr 22 01:15:55 <GeneralAntilles> An OTG cable/adaptor just has a grounded wire that tells the hardware to switch to host-mode
Apr 22 01:16:00 <GeneralAntilles> but you can also switch it in software.
Apr 22 01:17:47 <woodwizzle> doesn't it come with the usb cable? or is that cable not an OTG one so it would need to be switched in software
Apr 22 01:18:20 <trollasaurus> Try it out and see :-)
Apr 22 01:18:28 <woodwizzle> i don't own one yet
Apr 22 01:18:36 <GeneralAntilles> It's a regular usb cable
Apr 22 01:18:40 <GeneralAntilles> Which leaves it in client mode
Apr 22 01:18:43 <trollasaurus> Okay, buy one then try it out and see.
Apr 22 01:18:47 <GeneralAntilles> and doesn't have the right connector on one end
Apr 22 01:18:54 <GeneralAntilles> an F-F adaptor will do you.
Apr 22 01:19:06 <GeneralAntilles> The OTG adaptors are available from a guy in Canada for about $10
Apr 22 01:19:08 <woodwizzle> i mean I don't have an n800 yet
Apr 22 01:19:19 <woodwizzle> i'm figureing out what I'm gonna need with it =)
Apr 22 01:19:32 <woodwizzle> and if the USB port can be used with peripheral devices
Apr 22 01:24:22 <StormEveryDay> Who knows how to customize the OMweather?
Apr 22 01:24:36 <StormEveryDay> use the weather.com's location code
Apr 22 01:29:06 <Tankc> Hey everyone
Apr 22 01:29:14 <shapr> hi!
Apr 22 01:29:34 <Tankc> does anyone know where the gcc toolchain repository is located?
Apr 22 01:30:24 <Tankc> for os2008?
Apr 22 01:34:07 <woodwizzle> How well does the n800 playback videos? say transcoded DVDs etc.
Apr 22 01:34:25 <woodwizzle> does that give it a performance hit, is it gonna stutter etc?
Apr 22 01:34:33 <GeneralAntilles> Depends on the resolution and size.
Apr 22 01:34:35 <woodwizzle> or is it smooth enough at that res
Apr 22 01:34:46 <GeneralAntilles> There's a bajillion threads on ITT on the subject.
Apr 22 01:35:04 <Navi> It's perfect at 400x280 with a video bitrate of 1500k
Apr 22 01:35:20 <Navi> but you can scale it up quite a bit
Apr 22 01:41:33 <jga23> anybody do any python deb packaging for maemo?  my app installs fine with dpkg -i, but with the app manager I get "incompatible application package"
Apr 22 01:41:55 <johnx> is the Section: user/something
Apr 22 01:41:57 <johnx> ?
Apr 22 01:42:52 <jga23> hmm, looks like section is unknown right now
Apr 22 01:44:21 <johnx> app manager will only install things in Section: user/foo
Apr 22 01:44:25 <jga23> ahh
Apr 22 01:44:28 <jga23> thanks
Apr 22 01:46:40 <jga23> that was it
Apr 22 01:46:42 <jga23> awesome
Apr 22 01:52:25 <jga23> can anybody with an n810 test an app for me? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=172883
Apr 22 02:09:08 <AStorm> is there some method other than powerlaunch that provides additional reboot option?
Apr 22 02:09:23 <GeneralAntilles>  /etc/mce/mce.ini
Apr 22 02:09:40 <AStorm> mhm
Apr 22 02:28:44 <AStorm> home disk free applet has to suppress duplicate / entryy
Apr 22 02:28:47 <unixSnob> I want to take a windows box, and make it a linux box with the current windows boot image as a guest OS.  Is that possible?  Or is windows going to puke when it wakes up in a virtual world?
Apr 22 02:29:02 <KotCzarny> probably
Apr 22 02:29:04 <AStorm> it will puke
Apr 22 02:29:07 <KotCzarny> it's bound to drivers
Apr 22 02:29:19 <KotCzarny> and screeams like a girl when they change
Apr 22 02:29:27 <unixSnob> well it should autodetect some of the drivers, right?
Apr 22 02:29:44 <johnx> mainly it's the motherboard chipset driver that's the problem (IIRC from my windows days)
Apr 22 02:29:53 <unixSnob> Or is there so much change as to trigger the DRM piracy locks?
Apr 22 02:30:59 <unixSnob> yeah, I know i've seen the MB chipset driver take a dump when it wakes up on a new board.. but I figured that the vbox wouldn't emulate that
Apr 22 02:32:00 <johnx> well it probably emulates a different chipset than your real motherboard...
Apr 22 02:36:44 <MrMacBook> hey folks
Apr 22 02:36:57 <MrMacBook> has anyone here ported an ssh front-end to maemo by chance? There are a handful of gtk-based front ends out there
Apr 22 02:37:06 <KotCzarny> ssh frontend?
Apr 22 02:37:08 <KotCzarny> O.o
Apr 22 02:37:20 <KotCzarny> like.. xterm -e ssh ?
Apr 22 02:37:33 <johnx> can you give me a link? what do they do?
Apr 22 02:39:22 <fysa> MrMacBook, use personal menu
Apr 22 02:40:07 <fysa> it's a perfect spot for random useful scripts and aliases.
Apr 22 02:42:04 <MrMacBook> fysa:  personal menu? URL?
Apr 22 02:42:44 <johnx> googled: maemo personal menu, found: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/personal-menu/
Apr 22 02:43:10 <GeneralAntilles> Google-fu is a necessary skill.
Apr 22 02:44:18 <KotCzarny> brain is a necessary tool
Apr 22 02:44:39 <johnx> lies, I know how to workaround no brain using google, but not the other way around...
Apr 22 02:44:49 <KotCzarny> johnx: link!
Apr 22 02:45:13 <johnx> for example, just google for common sense and do what it tells you :)
Apr 22 02:45:17 <KotCzarny> (and for other way round just ask someone on irc, that's easy)
Apr 22 02:45:29 <KotCzarny> common sense comes from brain
Apr 22 02:45:30 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 22 02:45:53 <johnx> right, but it doesn't need to come from *your own brain*
Apr 22 02:46:08 <KotCzarny> you still have to have a little of it
Apr 22 02:46:09 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 22 02:50:54 <dick-richardson> just discovered twitter. pretty cool, but rather poignantly demonstrates my unpopularity :P
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 22 02:59:57 2008