**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 07 02:59:56 2008
May 07 03:14:16 <MajMin7> hello
May 07 03:14:42 <MajMin7> Is anyone around?
May 07 03:30:22 <GeneralAntilles> MicroB svn: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=178677#post178677
May 07 03:47:13 <Navi> OMG EET BREEKED MAH TABLET
May 07 03:51:01 <Navi> Totally a virus
May 07 03:51:52 <n800n> seriously?
May 07 03:51:59 <Navi> no
May 07 03:52:04 <Navi> >_>
May 07 03:53:19 <n800n> that warning really really worked on me
May 07 03:53:39 <timely> GeneralAntilles: bah, that guy's taking the fun out of me writing release notes
May 07 03:53:40 <n800n> not doing it before backup
May 07 03:54:02 <Navi> timely, yeah, that guy is STUPID
May 07 03:54:08 <timely> GeneralAntilles: fwiw, there's a file i wrote somewhere that suggests how to generate packages for things for which you don't have debs
May 07 03:54:10 * Navi hides
May 07 03:54:39 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: GeneralAntilles! :P
May 07 03:54:41 <timely> Navi: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n800/microb-3.2007
May 07 03:55:15 <timely> Navi: anyway, feel free to try using that to make your own debs of the things for which you don't have debs
May 07 03:55:24 <Navi> Ehehe
May 07 03:55:51 <Navi> I just write my own control scripts
May 07 03:56:11 <Navi> It was torture to learn, so might as well
May 07 03:56:12 <timely> Navi: for the os shipped packages that don't have debs?
May 07 03:56:16 <Navi> Oh
May 07 03:56:19 <Navi> kk :D
May 07 03:56:36 <timely> working for nokia, i could just grab the debs from the server at work
May 07 03:56:39 <timely> but that's no fun
May 07 03:56:41 <Navi> Yeah, I reflashed 'cuz I didn't have that stuff.
May 07 03:57:00 <timely> anyway, have a read
May 07 03:57:03 <Navi> I was pretty angry, but the payoff was all right
May 07 03:57:23 <Navi> Better browsing experience
May 07 03:57:25 <timely> keep in mind that you almost certainly can't redistribute the .deb's you'd generate in this manner
May 07 03:57:35 <timely> but otherwise you can basically safely break and unbreak the device
May 07 03:57:42 <timely> because you can reinstall any deb from the original system
May 07 03:57:46 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, timely, rm_you. :)
May 07 03:57:54 <Navi> You guys did nicely on the engine
May 07 03:57:59 <timely> thanks
May 07 03:58:02 <GeneralAntilles> Got the shirt last week, timely. Pure win. :D
May 07 03:58:10 <timely> :)
May 07 03:58:18 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: got my n800 sort of working again :)
May 07 03:58:22 <timely> fwiw, next week i'm starting to write the release notes
May 07 03:58:24 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
May 07 03:58:30 <GeneralAntilles> How much soldering did you have to do?
May 07 03:58:33 <Navi> timely, sorry to spoil your fun :(
May 07 03:58:40 <Navi> Woo, release notes
May 07 03:58:45 <Navi> Those are awesome
May 07 03:58:47 <timely> this week i'm trying to finish off an arch doc from last year that got sidelined
May 07 03:58:55 <timely> Navi: they're so time consuming
May 07 03:59:08 <timely> i presume you've read the older ones and the corresponding changelogs?
May 07 03:59:11 <Navi> Indeed, I read through all of them
May 07 03:59:29 <Navi> It's a time killer
May 07 03:59:44 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: i took it apart and played with stuff
May 07 03:59:51 <rm_you> i think it is just bas flash memory tho
May 07 03:59:52 <GeneralAntilles> Now it just works?
May 07 03:59:52 * timely nods
May 07 03:59:57 <rm_you> i did a reflash
May 07 04:00:02 <timely> it really does take weeks to convert those things into human readable text :(
May 07 04:00:04 <Navi> plus, I feel it's like an obligation
May 07 04:00:06 <rm_you> i think it just gets corrupted after a little bit
May 07 04:00:13 <Navi> devs work hard on it
May 07 04:00:24 <GeneralAntilles> Huh
May 07 04:00:49 <GeneralAntilles> I had a really great idea for adv-backlight last week, but now I've completely forgotten it. :<
May 07 04:00:53 <Navi> Heh
May 07 04:00:56 <timely> heh
May 07 04:00:57 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: >_<
May 07 04:00:59 <Navi> usuk dood
May 07 04:01:03 <GeneralAntilles> You ever get around to getting it in Extras?
May 07 04:01:06 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: I think you have access to the bugtracker / whatever on garage
May 07 04:01:17 <Navi> still wasn't in there, last I checked
May 07 04:01:29 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: no >_>_
May 07 04:01:36 <Navi> I'm too lazy to get on ITT and grab it from there
May 07 04:01:37 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: i still have no idea wtf is going on with that
May 07 04:01:41 <rm_you> no one ever responded to my emails
May 07 04:01:49 <Navi> It's not like I change the backlight anyways
May 07 04:01:57 <GeneralAntilles> Bug X-Fade
May 07 04:02:27 <timely> Navi: anyway, i'd like to know if those scripts actually work for someone
May 07 04:02:41 <Navi> Oh, I'll give it a go in a sec
May 07 04:02:44 <rm_you> anyways, i'll be working on it again after finals
May 07 04:02:45 <timely> i wrote them for myself a while ago
May 07 04:02:56 <timely> when i wanted to install the beta browser on an older os release
May 07 04:03:21 <Navi> heh
May 07 04:04:03 <Navi> I removed a huge amount of things on my second reflash
May 07 04:04:13 <timely> packages you don't like?
May 07 04:04:16 <Navi> Yeah
May 07 04:04:20 <timely> like the content indexer? :)
May 07 04:04:26 <Navi> I kept that
May 07 04:04:30 <timely> aww
May 07 04:04:32 <timely> speaking of which
May 07 04:04:37 <timely> i should write a package that replaces it
May 07 04:04:49 <timely> unless someone else already has
May 07 04:05:08 <Navi> I just removed small stuff like sketch, pdf reader, notes, etc etc
May 07 04:05:20 <lcdd> GeneralAntilles: it would be nice if the backlight dialog went away by poking anywhere on the screen. close when losing focus?
May 07 04:05:27 <timely> it should be simple... main () { register_for_sigs; while(1) { sleep(1000000); } return 0; }
May 07 04:05:39 <Navi> I didn't really mind having them there, it's just annoying that they're taking menu space
May 07 04:05:46 <timely> heh
May 07 04:05:48 <GeneralAntilles> A consequence of the container, lcdd.
May 07 04:05:52 <timely> you can move them to some other part of the menu...
May 07 04:05:58 <Navi> I know
May 07 04:06:02 <lcdd> GeneralAntilles: no way around it?
May 07 04:06:03 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody figure out how Nokia gets those sliders in their default applets. . . .
May 07 04:06:15 <timely> ?
May 07 04:06:15 <Navi> but I don't like having to scroll in the menu
May 07 04:06:18 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you ran into a wall trying to figure it out.
May 07 04:06:26 <timely> GeneralAntilles: which sliders?
May 07 04:06:29 <lcdd> hmm.
May 07 04:06:47 <GeneralAntilles> The ones for backlight and volume applets
May 07 04:07:01 <rm_you> it's like... Nokia's most closely guarded secret
May 07 04:07:06 <rm_you> wtf container they use for their sliders
May 07 04:07:07 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
May 07 04:07:16 <Navi> I had more than 6x6 desktop files, so there were too many menu entries
May 07 04:07:24 <GeneralAntilles> If they gave that up, then Apple would win, rm_you. :D
May 07 04:07:24 <Navi> s/6x6/36/
May 07 04:07:25 <infobot> Navi meant: I had more than 36 desktop files, so there were too many menu entries
May 07 04:07:51 <rm_you> lol
May 07 04:07:54 <timely> isn't that something you can figure out by tapping the gtk libs?
May 07 04:07:55 <rm_you> it's sooo stupid.
May 07 04:08:00 <rm_you> timely: no
May 07 04:08:04 <timely> why not?
May 07 04:08:19 <timely> gtk has create_object and set_parent or something
May 07 04:08:30 <timely> create object should let you get an object name
May 07 04:08:34 <rm_you> timely: I spent more than 24 hours over the course of a week or two trying to find out what container their stock backlight/sound apps use
May 07 04:08:45 <timely> rm_you: brother. i'll look today
May 07 04:08:52 <rm_you> :P
May 07 04:09:15 <rm_you> i have NO idea why the BACKLIGHT APPLICATION is closed source. i mean... seriously :P
May 07 04:09:30 <MajMin7_> hey..  can anyone offer some advice about installing the environment for the N810
May 07 04:09:34 <MajMin7_> I'm stuck
May 07 04:09:57 <MajMin7_> the instructions that I find aren't really helping much
May 07 04:09:59 <timely> rm_you: for starters, there's a default of writing closed source
May 07 04:10:08 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, I talked Khertan into writing up a Home applet for the light-meter output. ;)
May 07 04:10:11 <timely> you have to spend significant effort trying to get approval to open source
May 07 04:10:34 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: :P
May 07 04:10:41 <rm_you> ah :/
May 07 04:10:44 <Navi> I figured that was the way things went
May 07 04:10:54 <rm_you> I guess that makes sense... It isn't ideal, but it makes sense :
May 07 04:10:56 <rm_you> :/
May 07 04:11:01 <Navi> My Intermediate C professor told me about his buddy
May 07 04:11:22 <Navi> He "leaked" three lines of code
May 07 04:11:37 <Navi> leaked being using three lines of code as an example to someone
May 07 04:11:46 <timely> there are various things that have to be considered
May 07 04:11:56 <Navi> and he had to write a long report on why those three lines are insignificant
May 07 04:12:03 <timely> someone has to ask "is there a business case"
May 07 04:12:29 <timely> someone has to ask "are you sure there isn't some IPR that we're trying to protect elsewhere"
May 07 04:12:32 <timely> ...
May 07 04:12:35 <timely> it's painful
May 07 04:12:56 <timely> and sadly rewriting code seems to be something that people are willing to pay for
May 07 04:12:59 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: what's the name of the binary backlight-applet package?
May 07 04:13:04 <Navi> Heh
May 07 04:13:16 <timely> so the standard "the community will maintain it and save us money" explanation doesn't hold
May 07 04:13:18 <GeneralAntilles> Dunno off-hand, rm_you.
May 07 04:13:23 <Navi> Gets jobs for developers :D
May 07 04:13:26 <rm_you> k, i'll look it up
May 07 04:13:44 <timely> dpkg -S / dpkg -L are my friends?
May 07 04:15:29 <GeneralAntilles> timely, any chance whether you could comment on whether SSU will bring us more frequent MicroB updates? ;)
May 07 04:15:43 <timely> i can't comment on SSU
May 07 04:15:52 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, damn.
May 07 04:15:58 <timely> afaik the goal is to use SSU for future updates
May 07 04:15:58 * GeneralAntilles goes back to crossing his fingers.
May 07 04:16:04 <timely> i had actually hoped to use SSU last year
May 07 04:16:27 <GeneralAntilles> So I recall.
May 07 04:16:29 <timely> (or at least the repository system) to push a browser update
May 07 04:16:48 <timely> my understanding is that w/ diablo SSU is really theoretically ready
May 07 04:17:02 <timely> sadly the SSU people bugged us just last week about problems
May 07 04:17:17 <timely> and they were strange things like "your package breaks recovery mode"
May 07 04:17:26 <timely> to which we asked "why were you in recovery mode"
May 07 04:17:30 <timely> they didn't have an answer for that
May 07 04:17:38 <GeneralAntilles> :\
May 07 04:18:04 <timely> that stuff is basically one state mess
May 07 04:18:08 <timely> our packages use gconf
May 07 04:18:11 <Navi> Mmm
May 07 04:18:14 <timely> but in recovery mode, gconf isn't running
May 07 04:18:28 <Navi> You guys and your buzzwords :D
May 07 04:18:33 <timely> but afaiu recovery mode needs to be able to recover really low levels of the system
May 07 04:18:37 <timely> including things before gconf
May 07 04:18:48 <timely> so they simply can't just "start gconf" before recovering
May 07 04:18:54 <timely> oh, i have no clue what recovery mode is
May 07 04:19:05 <timely> all i can tell is that it's some mode where most of the platform isn't running
May 07 04:19:11 <timely> SSU is system software update
May 07 04:19:17 <timely> or if it isn't, it's something like that
May 07 04:19:22 <timely> maybe it's seamless software update?
May 07 04:19:34 <timely> it's generally like windows update
May 07 04:19:42 <timely> you get an indicator light in the notification area
May 07 04:19:48 <timely> it tells you what's available for updating
May 07 04:19:57 <timely> you choose to take the update, it downloads it, and installs on the fly
May 07 04:20:14 <timely> don't ask me about reboot stories, my guess is that enough stuff changes you'd need *one*
May 07 04:21:00 * timely goes back to reading spam
May 07 04:21:09 <GeneralAntilles> Seamless Software Update
May 07 04:21:14 <GeneralAntilles> At least according to the press release
May 07 04:21:17 <Navi> Spam is awesome
May 07 04:21:50 <timely> i'd make a joke about healthy breakfasts, but spam isn't kosher
May 07 04:21:59 <Navi> Haha :D
May 07 04:25:11 <timely> GeneralAntilles: glad to see someone reads the press releases
May 07 04:25:19 <timely> i'm really annoyed that the maemo-developers@ people don't
May 07 04:25:30 <timely> is it really that hard to understand that diablo is *not* a new os?
May 07 04:25:59 <Navi> ZOMG, Diablo = Ubuntu???
May 07 04:26:25 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
May 07 04:26:27 <timely> Navi: how are those scripts doing? :)
May 07 04:26:37 <Navi> Hey, was there the underlining of misspelled words in the microb-engine on chinook
May 07 04:26:40 <Navi> Oops :D
May 07 04:26:42 <GeneralAntilles> Well, I don't think most of those people had an issue with understanding that it's a dot release
May 07 04:26:45 <Navi> I'll do that now
May 07 04:26:52 <n800n> is there a way to make the status bar longer soit fits more?
May 07 04:27:13 <GeneralAntilles> I just think there may have been some higher expectations regarding dot releases based on previous experience.
May 07 04:27:21 <timely> n800n: the theming is kinda designed assuming a certain widget
May 07 04:27:55 <timely> GeneralAntilles: i'll need to recheck what changed between chinook and its predecessor
May 07 04:28:13 <timely> and if you think our buzzwords are bad. keep in mind that i don't remember the public name of the thing before chinook
May 07 04:28:20 <GeneralAntilles> Between Chinook and Bora? A lot. :P
May 07 04:28:31 <n800n> i hate having to decide between statusbar clock and loadapplet.
May 07 04:28:33 <GeneralAntilles> Probably the most yet.
May 07 04:29:13 <timely> n800n: in theory i think enough of hildon-desktop is open
May 07 04:29:15 <GeneralAntilles> But the .0/.1/.2 changes have usually been a little bit bigger than "minor".
May 07 04:29:34 <timely> that you could rewrite it to have more space
May 07 04:29:41 <n800n> no complaints
May 07 04:29:45 <timely> n800n: btw, what are the other ones you're using?
May 07 04:29:51 <timely> because iirc you have 5 slots + overflow
May 07 04:29:57 <timely> which means you have 3 others ...
May 07 04:30:03 <n800n> default ones
May 07 04:30:13 <n800n> excep xchat i guess
May 07 04:30:25 <GeneralAntilles> I recall alterego working on a theme-based solution for more statusbar applets, but I don't know if he got anywhere.
May 07 04:30:35 <n800n> sb clock takes double the space
May 07 04:30:45 <timely> ah
May 07 04:30:48 <GeneralAntilles> n800n, get advance backlight and kill the backlight and volume ones. ;)
May 07 04:30:55 <timely> ok, but do you use/need wifi?
May 07 04:31:00 <timely> do you use/need battery?
May 07 04:31:12 <GeneralAntilles> Turn off xchat, too
May 07 04:31:13 <timely> do you use/need presence?
May 07 04:31:19 <n800n> stopt making fun of mr
May 07 04:31:22 <n800n> me
May 07 04:31:23 <GeneralAntilles> Highlights show in the notifications area, anyway.
May 07 04:31:41 <timely> you can reorder those to the overflow section
May 07 04:31:49 <n800n> yeah
May 07 04:31:58 <rm_you> our main recommendation is advanced-backlight applet :P
May 07 04:32:02 <GeneralAntilles> ^^
May 07 04:32:26 <n800n> safe?
May 07 04:32:27 * timely pokes Navi
May 07 04:32:31 <Navi> ?
May 07 04:32:33 * GeneralAntilles loves being able to read at night.
May 07 04:32:46 <timely> how's the script? :)
May 07 04:32:51 <GeneralAntilles> Perfectly, n800n.
May 07 04:32:53 <timely> or how are the debs, whichever
May 07 04:32:57 <n800n> ok
May 07 04:33:03 <MajMin7_> can anyone help me with maemo/scratchbox installation?
May 07 04:33:05 <n800n> got a deb link?
May 07 04:33:08 <Navi> timely, yeah, I decided to install ssh first
May 07 04:33:11 <MajMin7_> whats the best readme?
May 07 04:33:16 <timely> you don't have ssh? oops
May 07 04:33:19 <Navi> about to run the script
May 07 04:33:31 <rm_you> n800n: adv-backlight.garage.maemo.org i think?
May 07 04:33:39 <GeneralAntilles> Remember, he nuked his system screwing with things he shouldn't have? :P
May 07 04:33:42 <n800n> ty
May 07 04:33:50 <timely> sadly ssh+sshd are part of the r&d images we use, and i always install them first on my release images, so i don't remember if they aren't standard :)
May 07 04:34:13 <Navi> timely, oh yeah, I already installed the browser packages and stuff
May 07 04:34:18 <Navi> should it still work?
May 07 04:34:39 <timely> Navi: the scripts are more for making a generic deb for something for which you don't have a deb
May 07 04:34:44 <Navi> mmk
May 07 04:34:47 <timely> you're not trying to actually install this old browser
May 07 04:34:52 <timely> that'd be kinda silly :)
May 07 04:35:21 <timely> i'm just suggesting that you try to use it to make debs for any / all packages for which you don't have debs
May 07 04:35:22 <timely> e.g. the ones you mentioned
May 07 04:36:18 <timely> i don't remember how comprehensive the script is, i think it's even possible to grab postinst/preinst files from the dpkg staging area if you're really greedy
May 07 04:37:00 <timely> hi dougt
May 07 04:37:20 <dougt> timely: how are you doing?
May 07 04:37:34 <Navi> weird
May 07 04:37:37 <Navi> errors
May 07 04:37:48 <timely> pretty good. this week i'm doing architecture documentation. next week i start writing browser release notes (i hope)
May 07 04:37:56 <timely> Navi: pastebin.mozilla.org
May 07 04:37:58 <n800n> this is smart
May 07 04:38:04 <n800n> ty
May 07 04:38:09 <timely> you have <10mins before my network flakes
May 07 04:38:19 <Navi> kk
May 07 04:38:35 <timely> in ~100mins i'll probably only be on irc.mozilla.org (join #foxymonkies and ask someone how to find me)
May 07 04:38:46 <Navi> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/424613
May 07 04:39:12 <timely> oh
May 07 04:39:17 <timely> that's not really a script to run
May 07 04:39:24 <Navi> >_>
May 07 04:39:29 <timely> that's for reading :)
May 07 04:39:43 <Navi> zomgnoautomization?
May 07 04:39:58 <timely> the automation wouldn't get you the packages you want anyway :)
May 07 04:40:08 <Navi> Heh
May 07 04:40:53 <timely> # this is run on a device running 4.2007
May 07 04:40:57 <timely> read around there
May 07 04:41:17 <timely> i think the .sh files are actually in the same directory
May 07 04:41:34 <timely> so you can just download them instead of copying the code to generate them out of the web page
May 07 04:42:06 <Navi> "note that the resultant debian packages are probably not legally distributable"
May 07 04:42:08 <Navi> Lol
May 07 04:42:27 <timely> you're not distributing them, just using them to put files back onto your own device
May 07 04:42:33 <Navi> I know
May 07 04:42:38 <Navi> But I like the "probably"
May 07 04:42:48 <timely> but actually, the legalese for updates is really strange
May 07 04:43:00 <timely> my reading is basically if you own two n800s, you can only update one of them :)
May 07 04:43:14 <timely> IANAL
May 07 04:43:15 <Navi> >_>
May 07 04:43:19 <Navi> Lol
May 07 04:43:30 <Navi> GeneralAntilles, you hear that?
May 07 04:43:54 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
May 07 04:44:06 <Navi> Ah damn, no perl
May 07 04:44:20 <GeneralAntilles> I'll do what I damn well please with my own devices tyvm
May 07 04:44:24 <timely> Navi: eww
May 07 04:44:26 <Navi> Unless it comes with it?
May 07 04:44:45 <timely> GeneralAntilles: be my guest
May 07 04:44:49 <n800n> ok something really weird with adv backlight
May 07 04:44:52 <timely> Navi: iirc i had the scripts in two pieces
May 07 04:44:57 <lopz> night
May 07 04:45:03 <timely> the pieces that ran on the device which were /bin/sh
May 07 04:45:12 <Navi> Confusing O_o
May 07 04:45:13 <timely> and the pieces to run in scratchbox, which were perl
May 07 04:45:45 <timely> Navi: the microb-3.2007 file explained it !
May 07 04:45:53 <Navi> Hehe
May 07 04:46:21 <timely> for someone willing to read changelogs, you seem really unwilling to read  afile that's <100 lines
May 07 04:46:30 <Navi> I'm tired :D
May 07 04:46:45 <Navi> Changelogs are totally restroom reading material
May 07 04:46:52 * timely woke up to finnish news
May 07 04:46:54 <timely> heh
May 07 04:47:13 <n800n> my status bar is reset, adv-bl is gone
May 07 04:47:39 <timely> well, sleep on it, and try it when you aren't asleep
May 07 04:48:04 <Navi> Nah, if I do, I won't be able to do anything about it 'till Friday
May 07 04:48:15 <timely> heh
May 07 04:48:19 <Navi> I shouldn't even be awake
May 07 04:48:28 <timely> that'd be a problem. i'm relatively unreachable fridays (american time zone)
May 07 04:48:31 <Navi> I have exams tomorrow morning >_>
May 07 04:48:55 <GeneralAntilles> n800n, desktop crashed
May 07 04:48:56 <timely> anyway, i'm about to be off
May 07 04:48:58 <GeneralAntilles> Try restarting.
May 07 04:49:06 <Navi> k
May 07 04:49:10 <Navi> See ya, timely
May 07 04:49:22 <timely> if you need me, dougt can help you find me on moznet
May 07 04:49:30 <Navi> kk
May 07 04:49:45 <dougt> Navi: it will cost. ;-)
May 07 04:49:58 <Navi> I have an american penny
May 07 04:50:01 <Navi> Will that do?
May 07 04:50:02 * timely marks a bugmail as not spam
May 07 04:50:34 <dougt> did you know that an american pennies' metal content is worth more than a penny?
May 07 04:50:40 <Navi> Yep
May 07 04:51:22 <dougt> same is true for my 770.
May 07 04:51:45 <n800n> hah
May 07 04:51:52 <Navi> ^_^
May 07 04:52:06 <n800n> are you steve jobs?
May 07 04:52:13 <Navi> That was pretty lame, lol
May 07 04:54:09 <n800n> k adv backlight thumbs way up for the control
May 07 04:54:38 <rm_you> ^_^
May 07 05:00:17 <n800n> it flickers a bit on very low light
May 07 05:01:19 <GeneralAntilles> Charger in?
May 07 05:01:34 <GeneralAntilles> It only does it a little for me when I have the charger in on the lowest 4 levels
May 07 05:03:31 <n800n> yeh in
May 07 05:03:57 <GeneralAntilles> Try taking it out. ;)
May 07 05:04:49 <n800n> still, on the lowest 3 i think
May 07 05:05:50 <n800n> it's ok tho
May 07 05:06:28 <GeneralAntilles> It may get better with time
May 07 05:06:39 <GeneralAntilles> My second N800 did it for a bit
May 07 05:06:42 <GeneralAntilles> Then stopped.
May 07 05:06:58 <n800n> it's a hardware thing
May 07 05:57:49 <AsiQ> Hey there, I'm running HE2007, and trying to install gizmo for n800, it says that i'm missing some libs, is there a way to update those libs? tnx
May 07 06:06:33 <wishvmwareworked> hello
May 07 07:49:57 <gpd> If anyone has a working scratchbox / build environment for chinook - I would be super grateful if you could compile an armel.deb of unison 2.27
May 07 07:50:20 * timeless looks around
May 07 07:50:22 <gpd> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/net/unison
May 07 07:50:26 <timeless> is this thing on? :)
May 07 07:50:59 <gpd> sorry: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy-backports/unison that one
May 07 07:51:12 <gpd> anyway - shot in the dark - but some kind soul may be listening
May 07 07:51:35 <gpd> I compiled unison for bora without problems - but no build env atm. :(
May 07 08:07:09 <timeless> rm_you: how's life?
May 07 08:07:26 <rm_you> heh
May 07 08:07:31 <rm_you> Javascript? >_>
May 07 08:08:10 <timeless> well, i can't very much copy the code as written
May 07 08:08:16 <timeless> so what i gave you was pseudo
May 07 08:08:18 <rm_you> truth
May 07 08:08:19 <rm_you> :P
May 07 08:08:30 <timeless> that it happens to resemble a language i speak. well...
May 07 08:15:34 <rm_you> ok well....
May 07 08:15:51 <rm_you> did you see exactly what type of Gtk container it is?
May 07 08:16:06 <rm_you> i don't see that here
May 07 08:16:28 <rm_you> it has a vbox, but that's just a layout container...
May 07 08:19:16 <gpd> don't suppose either of you has a build environment and a spare few minutes :)?
May 07 08:27:02 <KotCzarny> gpd: what do you need compiled?
May 07 08:27:12 <KotCzarny> if it doesn't require many deps i can try
May 07 08:27:13 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 08:27:20 <KotCzarny> (before i go to sleep)
May 07 08:28:52 <gpd> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy-backports/unison
May 07 08:29:01 <gpd> KotCzarny: unison version 2.27.57
May 07 08:29:16 <gpd> it is not compatible with the 2.13 series that is on maemo :(
May 07 08:29:20 <KotCzarny> no debian version?
May 07 08:29:27 <gpd> maybe in unstable -
May 07 08:29:58 <gpd> no - seemingly still 2.13 in etch :(
May 07 08:30:09 <KotCzarny> http://packages.debian.org/sid/unison this one?
May 07 08:30:14 <gpd> doubt if there is much difference
May 07 08:30:33 <gpd> ah - yes - perfect!
May 07 08:30:55 <gpd> hmm - there is armel in there anyway - don't suppose those work...
May 07 08:31:16 <timeless> well, that's where i got lost
May 07 08:31:30 <gpd> have to run - but back in 10 minutes :)
May 07 08:31:37 <timeless> it went through the gtk class macro maze
May 07 08:32:32 <timeless> i don't really speak gobject/gtk macro maze
May 07 08:32:49 <KotCzarny> gpd: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: ocaml-nox (>= 3.10.0-8) liblablgtk2-ocaml-dev (>= 2.6.0-13) chrpath librsvg2-bin (>= 2.18.2) imagemagick
May 07 08:32:54 <KotCzarny> crazy deps required
May 07 08:33:10 <KotCzarny> more than 5 minutes of work, so i'm off to bed
May 07 08:33:11 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 08:33:18 <timeless> the soundwindow claims to come from gtkwindow
May 07 08:34:55 <timeless> ok, i should have looked at the other thing
May 07 08:35:19 <timeless> it's a "statusbar-item"
May 07 08:36:05 <timeless> the only thing they do w/ it is position it, move it, and realize it
May 07 08:37:16 <timeless> sorry. there really doesn't seem to be anything else interesting here
May 07 08:38:41 <timeless> oh yes, statusbar-item is defined in hildon-desktop
May 07 08:38:46 <timeless> so that's probably the key you want/need :)
May 07 08:39:41 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/os2008/search?string=statusbar-item&find=hildon.*desktop
May 07 08:40:09 <timeless> hrm, although oddly, that doesn't actually have a string by that nmae
May 07 08:43:07 <timeless> or not
May 07 08:43:11 * timeless shrugs
May 07 08:43:25 <timeless> Tempt has changed the topic on channel #opensolaris to OpenSolaris 2008.05 discussion in #os200805 ...
May 07 08:43:38 <timeless> boy it's really confusing for two channels to talk about os2008..
May 07 08:43:51 <rm_you> hrm
May 07 08:44:16 <timeless> yeah, sorry, that is the key
May 07 08:44:32 <timeless> the statusbar item it has is derived from the normal StatusbarItem I pointed to
May 07 08:44:38 <rm_you> hrm
May 07 08:44:40 <timeless> it just has a couple of other bits
May 07 08:47:45 <rm_you> looking into statusbad-item now
May 07 08:47:47 <rm_you> err
May 07 08:47:50 <rm_you> *statusbar
May 07 08:49:48 <rm_you> hrm
May 07 08:50:00 <rm_you> i completely fail at finding any reference to that in the APIs
May 07 08:56:17 <rm_you> is there supposed to be... like... something here? http://test.maemo.org/platform/docs/api-bora/maemo-af-desktop-api/index.html
May 07 08:56:43 <rm_you> apparently these APIs are from Bora >_>
May 07 08:58:16 <rm_you> oooo
May 07 08:58:21 * rm_you tests
May 07 08:59:14 <gpd> KotCzarny: thanks for trying
May 07 09:02:52 <rm_you> hrm
May 07 09:03:01 <rm_you> don't suppose there's any better documentation for this ANYWHERE?
May 07 09:03:15 <rm_you> http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/libhildondesktop/StatusbarItem.html
May 07 09:03:30 <rm_you> i guess I can just read the header :/
May 07 09:18:18 <trickie_> hrw: sorry haven't been near my dev setup to test those modules yet
May 07 09:18:25 <trickie_> hrw: will try to get to it tonight
May 07 09:18:32 <hrw> trickie_: ok
May 07 09:18:35 <hrw> morning all btw
May 07 09:18:58 <trickie_> morning :)
May 07 09:19:46 <timeless> i did a quick check and couldn't find any consumers
May 07 09:19:48 <timeless> (public)
May 07 09:27:10 <Saviq> Hi all, I'm trying to install the os2008pl translation package, it installs fine, but what do i do to enable it, do I change the locales?
May 07 09:36:51 <jldiaz> hi
May 07 09:37:09 <jldiaz> how can I reinstall the core version of osso-xterm (chinook)?
May 07 09:37:34 <jldiaz> I installed recently a newer version, from a .deb that jott prepared from the latest svn snapshot
May 07 09:37:56 <jldiaz> but I want to downgrade it again to the original version, for testing purposes
May 07 09:39:52 <timeless> so...
May 07 09:40:19 <timeless> if you hadn't first upgraded, you could have tried a script i tried to coerce someone else earlier into testing
May 07 09:40:36 <timeless> which in theory enables you to build .deb's based on installed software
May 07 09:40:41 <AStorm> jldiaz: the unse dpkg
May 07 09:40:48 <AStorm> *then use
May 07 09:40:49 <timeless> then you could have used dpkg -i to force downgrade
May 07 09:40:57 <timeless> astorm: that only works if you have an original deb
May 07 09:41:05 <timeless> nokia software is generally missing the debs
May 07 09:41:05 <AStorm> yes
May 07 09:41:14 <AStorm> hmmm, fqil
May 07 09:41:18 <timeless> for reasons which are beyond my ability to explain
May 07 09:41:19 <AStorm> fail
May 07 09:41:29 <timeless> anyway, if you're intersted in the script
May 07 09:41:30 <AStorm> someone would have to package the original
May 07 09:41:53 <AStorm> btw, I've a tiny problem with evince
May 07 09:42:11 <AStorm> its mime association doesn't open the file
May 07 09:42:15 <AStorm> just launches it
May 07 09:42:29 <AStorm> how to fix that?
May 07 10:13:46 <jldiaz> sorry, I had to leave for a while. Back again
May 07 10:14:05 <jldiaz> so, that was actually my question.. where can I obtain the .deb of the original version?
May 07 10:14:37 <timeless> sorry, what i was saying is that http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n800/microb-3.2007
May 07 10:14:53 <timeless> has instructions for how to build your own deb from the flashed image
May 07 10:15:03 <timeless> *before* you go ruining the image by installing new debs
May 07 10:15:15 <jldiaz> oh
May 07 10:15:23 <timeless> note that the url is a set of instructions based on doing it for another task
May 07 10:15:34 <timeless> and please read the content, there are some fairly important disclaimers
May 07 10:15:37 <jldiaz> can it be done from a image file of the flash?
May 07 10:15:51 <timeless> as long as you can mount the file? sure
May 07 10:16:08 <jldiaz> it has to be run "on-tablet"?
May 07 10:16:10 <timeless> it'd take a wee bit more work
May 07 10:16:27 <timeless> half of it needs to be done on a file system which has the files from the tablet as they were
May 07 10:16:43 <timeless> the other half needs to be done in a place where you have dpkg-deb
May 07 10:16:51 <timeless> and my version uses perl for the second half
May 07 10:16:52 <jldiaz> oh, well, perhaps I can simply mount the image file on ubuntu, browse and find the osso-xterm executable and copy it to the tablet
May 07 10:16:55 <timeless> although you could change how it's written
May 07 10:17:10 <timeless> anyway, it'd be nice if *someone* read the url and tried the process :)
May 07 10:17:33 <jldiaz> yes :) Thank you for the effort of writing that
May 07 10:17:54 <timeless> note that the dpkg commands do support altroot, but you'd need to change the scripts to pass that flag,
May 07 10:18:03 <timeless> for some scripts i write, i heavily rely on alt root
May 07 10:18:20 <jldiaz> I'm afraid that those concepts are beyond my current understanding
May 07 10:18:25 <timeless> for this one, i was using real devices, so i didn't :)
May 07 10:19:08 <timeless> http://linuxreviews.org/man/dpkg/
May 07 10:19:12 <timeless> --root=dir
May 07 10:19:20 <timeless> view-source:http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n800/do-dpkg.sh
May 07 10:20:38 <jldiaz> oh, you are in the microb team?
May 07 10:23:36 <jldiaz> What is your opinion about the supposed faster speed of firefox3? I'm specially interested in faster javascript execution, because I would like to use TiddlyWiki on tablet, and it is a heavy javascripter
May 07 10:23:54 <jldiaz> currently, tiddilywiki works, but it is too slow to be useable
May 07 10:24:03 <timeless> http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/5/
May 07 10:24:18 <timeless> i suppose i could write an entry explaining speed
May 07 10:24:31 <timeless> i just haven't considered it a good use of my time
May 07 10:24:42 <timeless> the short answer is that microb is based on mozilla1.9a1
May 07 10:24:50 <timeless> fennec is based on mozilla1.9b5
May 07 10:25:09 <timeless> a large amount of js perf work has been done between the two (over the course of about a year)
May 07 10:25:42 <timeless> you can run fennec on xulrunner gtk2-cairo today
May 07 10:25:58 <timeless> and the general rendering perf will be slower/worse than microb
May 07 10:26:10 <timeless> this is according to an unbiased user here
May 07 10:26:41 <timeless> now, if all you care about  is javascript performance and not responsiveness, then be my guest, use fennec
May 07 10:26:57 <timeless> if you want a customizable/ evolving ui, use fennec
May 07 10:27:12 <timeless> keep in mind that i'm also a mozilla contributor. i like mozilla. i want to see it succeed
May 07 10:27:17 <jldiaz> I guess I can have both installed, and use fennec for tiddlywiki and microb for general browsing
May 07 10:27:25 <X-Fade> Yep, javascript may be faster. But rendering feels a lot slower in Fennec. (Probably because of the kinetic scrolling)
May 07 10:27:28 <timeless> but if you want a fast browsing experience, you won't really find that in fennec today
May 07 10:27:40 <pupnik> Is there 'noscript' plugin available for tablets?
May 07 10:27:42 <timeless> the embedding guys are working on that
May 07 10:27:52 <timeless> i sent the noscript dev a tablet asking him to work on it
May 07 10:27:55 <timeless> he got sidetracked
May 07 10:28:03 <timeless> he's had his tablet for probably more than 6months :(
May 07 10:28:06 <pupnik> boo for him
May 07 10:28:15 <timeless> i was hoping to blog about that when it happened
May 07 10:28:32 <timeless> please don't make too much of a show about it, a tablet is nice, but being able to put food on the table is more important
May 07 10:28:41 <timeless> so is satisfying a significant other
May 07 10:28:50 <pupnik> ? i don't
May 07 10:28:50 <timeless> in his case, that involved taking her on a honeymoon iirc
May 07 10:29:07 <timeless> but yeah, i was hoping to have him port noscript months ago
May 07 10:29:18 <pupnik> does this mean it's not a simple compile under scratchbox then?
May 07 10:29:53 <timeless> correct
May 07 10:29:59 <timeless> since there's no c++ to begin w/
May 07 10:30:03 <timeless> noscript is xul+xbl
May 07 10:30:09 <timeless> and microb doesn't have xul
May 07 10:30:23 <timeless> basically the entire ui needs to be reworked
May 07 10:30:29 <timeless> i think he actually did get part way through it
May 07 10:30:37 <pupnik> ok
May 07 10:30:46 <jldiaz> there are instructions somewhere about running fennec on OS2008? I'm googling and reading about comparatives, but not about how can it be done
May 07 10:30:50 <timeless> you could contact him by email and ask if you could help
May 07 10:30:57 <pupnik> hahaha
May 07 10:31:01 <timeless> jldiaz: there's a blog from vlad iirc on it
May 07 10:31:06 <timeless> the short thing is that
May 07 10:31:08 <timeless> 1. get xulrunner
May 07 10:31:16 <timeless> 2. download fennec (there are choices for how you do this)
May 07 10:31:21 <X-Fade> jldiaz: There is a link for a deb somewhere.
May 07 10:31:23 <timeless> 3. move fennec to the device
May 07 10:31:35 <timeless> 4. follow instructions for running fennec
May 07 10:31:57 <timeless> i did it in <10mins on an n800 using the n800's terminal
May 07 10:32:04 <X-Fade> jldiaz: http://people.mozilla.org/~vladimir/fennec.install
May 07 10:32:05 <timeless> and no, i didn't rely on my knowledge of mozilla
May 07 10:32:21 <timeless> as i don't actually use xulrunner much
May 07 10:32:27 <jldiaz> thanks for the info!
May 07 10:32:41 <jldiaz> I'll try
May 07 10:32:57 <timeless> anyway, i hope that was enough of an explanation about microb v. xulrunner
May 07 10:33:09 <timeless> they're of course working on improving the perf of xulrunner
May 07 10:33:25 <timeless> we're working to make a future (post diablo) version of microb that's a lot faster than today's microb
May 07 10:33:31 <timeless> it should be done before 2010
May 07 10:33:39 <timeless> but i don't want people to hold me to that date
May 07 10:34:01 <timeless> since i am timeless, which means i have no control over dates or interest in them at all really :)
May 07 10:34:36 <jldiaz> :)
May 07 10:34:52 <dneary> hi there
May 07 10:34:59 <dneary> timeless: You're Josh, right?
May 07 10:35:01 <timeless> actually ideally it'd be before 2010, but i'm pretty sure you'll eventually learn that i like
May 07 10:35:03 <timeless> dneary: yep
May 07 10:35:08 <timeless> nice to meet you (kinda)
May 07 10:35:13 <jldiaz> a last question... can I run the fennec.install provided by vladimir without ruining microb or other settings?
May 07 10:35:22 <jldiaz> i.e: it is reversible the installation?
May 07 10:35:23 <dneary> timeless: I was just wondering where you fit into the decision on the platform for Diabolo
May 07 10:35:31 <timeless> no control :)
May 07 10:35:39 <timeless> i barely got notice about what would or wouldn't be in
May 07 10:35:48 <timeless> we did get enough of a head up many moons ago that glib wasn't being changed
May 07 10:35:56 <timeless> and i made that perfectly clear many moons ago on that list
May 07 10:36:14 <dneary> timeless: Ah, OK. The way you were talking, it sounded like you'd made the decisions.
May 07 10:36:21 <timeless> sorry.
May 07 10:36:29 <timeless> i have no control over anything
May 07 10:36:35 <timeless> even my own team doesn't listen to me
May 07 10:36:43 <timeless> eventually they tend to do what i suggest
May 07 10:36:56 <timeless> but i don't get credit because i suggest it long before someone decides to do something similar
May 07 10:37:54 <lardman> timeless: Oh, you're Josh; bloody irc nicks, make things too complicated
May 07 10:38:08 <timeless> most of the mozilla community doesn't know that
May 07 10:38:20 <timeless> so don't get too down
May 07 10:38:33 <lardman> :)
May 07 10:38:34 <lardman> I just emailed you back
May 07 10:38:39 <timeless> i generally try to keep my
May 07 10:38:41 <timeless> simon?
May 07 10:38:49 <timeless> i'm replying..
May 07 10:38:51 <lardman> so you have the same problem ;D
May 07 10:38:54 <lardman> yes
May 07 10:43:41 <timeless> i think in your case it may have been mentioned once before
May 07 10:43:48 <timeless> personally i prefer to treat people as independent
May 07 10:43:54 <timeless> i don't have any reason to tie one to another
May 07 10:44:04 <timeless> ideally each persona should get as much respect as it deserves
May 07 10:44:08 <timeless> if i'm more helpful here
May 07 10:44:13 <timeless> treat me differently, i don't mind
May 07 10:44:34 <lardman> hmm, multiple personalities :)
May 07 10:44:41 <timeless> i have a number
May 07 10:44:46 <timeless> visit moznet and ask :)
May 07 10:44:57 <lardman> more whether people know background to an issue, etc., I think anyway
May 07 10:46:17 <timeless> dneary: fwiw. i didn't expect you to have read every bug in bugs.maemo
May 07 10:46:21 <timeless> or every thread in maemo-devel
May 07 10:46:33 <timeless> the long posters in maemo-devel are different
May 07 10:46:51 <timeless> if i remind them about something that was discussed eons ago, it's because they were given warning then
May 07 10:47:03 <timeless> in as certain terms as a dev w/o a speaking license could give them
May 07 10:47:17 <dneary> lardman = simon, timeless=Josh.
May 07 10:47:24 <timeless> and wrt referencing marketing docs...
May 07 10:47:25 <dneary> OK, Now I'm getting somewhere :)
May 07 10:47:30 <dneary> I'm Dave, by the way ;)
May 07 10:47:33 <timeless> dneary: but seriously, i do try
May 07 10:47:43 <timeless> you're also bolsh
May 07 10:47:57 <timeless> i do try to keep my real name away from my irc nick
May 07 10:48:15 <timeless> when i'm writing from nokia, i'm writing as an employee reminding people about what has already been said
May 07 10:48:18 <dneary> right, but I try to avoid that nick anywhere except on irc.gnome.org where I've had it for 10 years now
May 07 10:48:32 <timeless> and describing in general how things are at nokia
May 07 10:48:39 <timeless> when i'm here, i try to avoid that
May 07 10:48:53 <dneary> So, you can help me with my "who's who"
May 07 10:48:59 <timeless> while i'm around
May 07 10:49:00 <dneary> So far I have the following, more or less:
May 07 10:49:08 <dneary> Ari Jaaksi is the boss
May 07 10:49:09 <timeless> fwiw this channel is logged
May 07 10:49:12 <timeless> it's also googlable
May 07 10:49:22 <timeless> as such, i'd rather you use email
May 07 10:49:25 <timeless> pick an address
May 07 10:49:33 <timeless> timeless@gmail or first.last@nokia
May 07 10:49:42 <dneary> Under Ari, there is Carlos and Yannick, Carlos taking care of the software and Yannick the hardware
May 07 10:49:43 <timeless> note that @gmail i don't have access to phone book
May 07 10:50:01 <timeless> not sure which yannick, but afaik the yannick i know doesn't go near hardware
May 07 10:50:11 <timeless> there was a yannick who basically ran applications
May 07 10:50:22 <timeless> and carlos basically ran desktop (which is basically platform)
May 07 10:50:27 <timeless> carlos may or may not have reported to yannick
May 07 10:50:30 <timeless> he probably did
May 07 10:50:35 <timeless> but they took down my org chart
May 07 10:50:42 <timeless> and as i said, it hasn't been useful post reorg
May 07 10:51:05 <timeless> as for who's directly under ari, i only knew that from the old org chart
May 07 10:51:15 <timeless> and i generally avoid interacting w/ people above my pay grade
May 07 10:51:20 <timeless> it's very hazardous to my health
May 07 10:51:41 <timeless> i have a class in 10 mins, that lasts for 90mins
May 07 10:51:44 <timeless> and i didn't do my homework
May 07 10:55:25 <dneary> yannick pellet
May 07 10:55:37 <dneary> He ran applications? And Carlos is on the platform?
May 07 10:55:43 <dneary> I was mixing them up then
May 07 10:57:26 <X-Fade> dneary: Carlos seems to do HAF? And is the QA contact for HAF at least.
May 07 10:57:55 <dneary> HAF?
May 07 10:58:05 <dneary> Hildon Audio Framework?
May 07 10:58:06 <X-Fade> Hildon Application Framework.
May 07 10:58:10 <jldiaz> well.. the installation of fennec was smooth, but the program takes a eternity to load, and I don't see much improvement in speed when loading tiddlywiki
May 07 10:58:14 <dneary> Ah - I was guessing
May 07 10:58:22 <jldiaz> I'm thinking about uninstalling
May 07 10:58:26 <X-Fade> dneary: Close ;)
May 07 10:58:35 <dneary> jldiaz: Try a bigger site
May 07 10:58:47 <X-Fade> jldiaz: Try slashdot.org ;)
May 07 10:59:02 <X-Fade> And enjoy the slideshow.
May 07 10:59:05 <jldiaz> tiddlywiki is indeed a big deal
May 07 10:59:21 <dneary> Not bigger as in more popular
May 07 10:59:26 <dneary> Bigger as in more content
May 07 10:59:36 <jldiaz> and it was my main motivation for trying a browser different from microb
May 07 10:59:56 <jldiaz> tiddlywiki is slow on n810, no matter what browser
May 07 11:00:10 <jldiaz> in addition, I got installed "minefield". What is this?
May 07 11:00:40 <johnx> another firefox based browser
May 07 11:00:44 <johnx> have you tried midori?
May 07 11:00:45 <X-Fade> jldiaz: You can also try a webkit based browser. I think the is a Midori port on itt.
May 07 11:00:51 <X-Fade> heh..
May 07 11:02:56 <jldiaz> fennec does not have any menu? how can I configure the proxy, change the text size, etc?
May 07 11:04:29 <johnx> about:config maybe?
May 07 11:06:15 <RST38h> fennec isn't even in beta, afaik
May 07 11:06:23 <RST38h> it is alpha-quality package
May 07 11:06:39 <RST38h> so you may be better off sticking with MicroB for now
May 07 11:26:05 <lardman> dneary: that format for the email ok?
May 07 11:26:19 <dneary> lardman?
May 07 11:26:39 <lardman> I just sent one to you & the list
May 07 11:27:35 <dneary> Ah - lardman=Simon
May 07 11:27:41 <dneary> Excuse me, I'm a little slow
May 07 11:27:42 <lardman> yep
May 07 11:27:49 <dneary> This stuff takes a while to sink in :)
May 07 11:27:55 <lardman> I have the same issues with nicks, yours is great!
May 07 11:28:56 <dneary> Thanks :)
May 07 11:29:28 <dneary> I took up the suggestion of Karl Fogel a while ago, who said that a simple convention that meant that people would be recognisable by their nicks was good
May 07 11:31:28 * Robot101 whistles innocently
May 07 11:31:43 <X-Fade> Hehe ;)
May 07 11:32:16 <dneary> X-Fade: You're Niels!
May 07 11:32:20 <dneary> Didn't know that
May 07 11:32:29 <X-Fade> dneary: Now you know ;)
May 07 11:32:58 <X-Fade> I at least have my realname set ;)
May 07 11:33:15 <inz> I'm nobody!
May 07 11:34:37 <AsiQ> Hey there, I'm running HE2007, and trying to install gizmo for n800, it says that i'm missing some libs, is there a way to update those libs? tnx
May 07 11:34:54 <johnx> AsiQ, what libs?
May 07 11:35:06 <dneary> inz: You're Santy!
May 07 11:35:08 <AsiQ> 1sec...
May 07 11:37:04 <AsiQ> johnx: its: lbatk1.0-0, libc6, libcairo2, libdbus-1-3... and the list keeps on going...
May 07 11:37:30 <johnx> are you getting the version for OS2007 or OS2008?
May 07 11:37:42 <johnx> also, is it saying those libs are missing or not the right version?
May 07 11:38:21 <AsiQ> hmmm i'll check that....
May 07 11:38:31 <AsiQ> and it says that they are out of date
May 07 11:39:04 <AsiQ> johnx: tnx man
May 07 11:39:15 <johnx> I assume os2007he uses the same libc as os2007, though I'm not sure
May 07 11:39:27 <johnx> first thing is to make sure you're trying to get the gizmo version for os2007
May 07 11:39:52 <AsiQ> i'm checking it now....
May 07 11:41:21 <AsiQ> OS: OS 2008 (Chinook).....
May 07 11:41:32 <AsiQ> i'll try to find os2007 version
May 07 11:41:39 <johnx> yup, that's not gonna work for you unless you use OS2008HE :)
May 07 11:41:57 <AsiQ> tried OS2008HE... too slow...
May 07 11:43:41 * johnx still thinks that using a framebuffer console on the n800 is like the funniest thing ever :)
May 07 11:46:11 <AsiQ> well johnx, tnx anyway....
May 07 11:46:29 <johnx> sure, there might be an OS2007 copy of gizmo lying around somewhere
May 07 11:46:45 <johnx> have you searched on internettablettalk.com/forums ?
May 07 11:46:53 <johnx> there's people over there still using os2007he
May 07 11:47:58 <AsiQ> i have a working copy of gizmo for he2007
May 07 11:48:23 <johnx> ah, but you want the latest?
May 07 11:48:37 <AsiQ> the problem is that when i try to do a call to a landline... it crashes
May 07 11:49:00 <AsiQ> just thought that on v4 it wont crash....
May 07 12:14:39 <lcuk> lardman, the request email is just about spot on :) hopefully we can get clarification of a few things
May 07 12:18:34 <lardman> lcuk: looks like some are already coming through
May 07 12:21:16 <trickie_> one was me!
May 07 12:21:38 <mrglinux> hi i have some question of nokia n800 with maemo OS ... i want to know does it have compiler..and can i compile c/c++/java program ??
May 07 12:21:44 <lcuk> yer ive just seen
May 07 12:21:52 <lardman> trickie_: who are you in real life then?
May 07 12:22:03 <trickie_> lardman: Nick
May 07 12:22:11 <lardman> or did I miss that when we were discussing earlier
May 07 12:22:18 <lardman> ah, ok
May 07 12:22:19 <mrglinux> and does it have shell( bashe or ... )?
May 07 12:22:27 <trickie_> nah i haven't been paying attnetion here today
May 07 12:22:45 <lcuk> mrglinux, do you mean compiling directly on the device, or is there a development environment and toolkit - not that it matters, either way yes you can use gcc set to armel both directly on the device and within scratchbox emulated env
May 07 12:22:49 <trickie_> and i cannot spell
May 07 12:22:50 <johnx> mrglinux, you generally use scratchbox aka maemo sdk to compile, but you can install gcc onboard. it has ash for a shell. you can code in c or c++, and there is a kind of a beta java version
May 07 12:22:52 <lardman> mrglinux: cross compiler and with some effort an on-device compiler I believe; yes it has a shell - ash iirc
May 07 12:23:00 <X-Fade> Well, the A-GPS thing is encouraging? :)
May 07 12:23:04 <lardman> yes indeed
May 07 12:23:42 <lardman> it's just nice to know; saves the frustration; I'm feeling more relaxed already :)
May 07 12:23:53 <mrglinux> excellent
May 07 12:24:29 <lcuk> good lardman, we wouldnt like you being stressed :P
May 07 12:24:50 <trickie_> :)
May 07 12:24:51 <lardman> :D
May 07 12:25:13 <mrglinux> where can i see a complete list of applications and tools for os2007 ?
May 07 12:25:36 <johnx> there is a no "one stop, complete list"
May 07 12:25:57 <lcuk> there is nearly a complete list if you add all the general repos :)
May 07 12:25:59 <mrglinux> hmm
May 07 12:26:12 <johnx> look at downloads.maemo.org , gronmayer.com/it (bora = os2007) and internettablettalk.com/forums
May 07 12:26:20 <johnx> mrglinux, why OS2007 instead of OS2008?
May 07 12:26:35 * lcuk goes away again
May 07 12:26:39 <mrglinux> johnx because i can buy n800 just :P
May 07 12:26:58 <johnx> mrglinux, OS2008 is officially available for the n800
May 07 12:27:18 <mrglinux> very good
May 07 12:29:02 <mrglinux> i find n810   with 375$  is it suitable ? http://cgi.ebay.com/Nokia-N810-Internet-Tablet_W0QQitemZ260236283582QQihZ016QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
May 07 12:29:57 <johnx> suitable? $375 is a pretty good price I think, but I haven't been keeping track
May 07 12:31:58 <mrglinux> johnx and fine a 290$ http://cgi.ebay.com/Nokia-N810-Internet-Tablet_W0QQitemZ180238838057QQihZ008QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem   is it orginal do you think?
May 07 12:32:09 <johnx> I don't know!
May 07 12:32:39 <johnx> there are many days left to bid. the price will probably go up.
May 07 12:32:50 <mrglinux> hmm
May 07 12:33:01 <johnx> I never use ebay so I have no idea
May 07 12:33:20 <Jon> that's about half what it would cost in the UK I think
May 07 12:33:38 <RST38h> Don't buy from EBay
May 07 12:33:56 <RST38h> You will most likely regret it
May 07 12:34:09 <lcuk> look at the recently sold items to get a better guide to the final expected price.  but buyer beware, second hand is never as good as having your own unwrapping
May 07 12:34:49 <mrglinux> :-( why?  RST38h do you suggest where?
May 07 12:34:54 <lcuk> RST38h, johnx good advice, would read comments again +++++++++++++++
May 07 12:35:10 <RST38h> mrglinux: I suggest online stores (legitimate ones, not ebay) or retail
May 07 12:35:40 <Jon> does anyone know how big the nokia 7710 stylus is? I'm thinking of buying some to use with my n800
May 07 12:35:46 <mrglinux> RST38h:how is amazon?
May 07 12:36:58 <henrique> hi, where can I find an review about three devices (n700, n800 and n810)?
May 07 12:37:19 <henrique> also, I need the technical specs, does anyone knows where can I find it?
May 07 12:37:35 <Jon> henrique: technical specs are no doubt on wikipedia
May 07 12:37:42 <johnx> how technical? like CPU speeds? or circuit diagrams?
May 07 12:38:30 <henrique> CPU speeds, RAM and embedded features (like N810's GPS)
May 07 12:38:42 <johnx> nokia.com
May 07 12:38:54 <Jon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N800#Specifications
May 07 12:39:19 <henrique> right, but what about the n700 specs or reviews?
May 07 12:39:31 <henrique> it seems too hard to find something...
May 07 12:39:31 <RST38h> mrglinux: amazon is ok as long as it is really amazon and not one of the small retailers
May 07 12:39:39 <Jon> the n770 specs are at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N770#Specifications
May 07 12:39:41 <Jon> as for reviews...
May 07 12:39:47 <mrglinux> johnx can i work with gimp on it? :P
May 07 12:39:55 <X-Fade> Google is your friend for reviews.
May 07 12:40:07 <X-Fade> I don't think the 770 is sold anymore.
May 07 12:40:18 <johnx> mrglinux, i've gotten it to work ok, but it takes some real hacking.
May 07 12:40:22 <Jon> http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/2007/06/most_excellent_.html for an n800 review
May 07 12:40:26 <henrique> I don't want to buy a 770 :P
May 07 12:40:45 <henrique> I just need to cite them on my presentation
May 07 12:41:45 <henrique> Jon, thanks, that link will help a lot
May 07 12:41:50 <mrglinux> johnx really?  means every work i do with my computer i can do with this :-D
May 07 12:42:05 <johnx> mrglinux, yes, but slowly and not easily
May 07 12:42:29 <mrglinux> johnx how much?
May 07 12:42:32 <lardman> and not at all if you use x86 binary-only components
May 07 12:43:09 <Jon> henrique, nor problem
May 07 12:43:11 <mrglinux> johnx can i have webservice like apche and work with php on it?
May 07 12:43:27 <johnx> yes, but it will take up most of the RAM to run apache
May 07 12:43:28 <mrglinux> **apache
May 07 12:43:40 <johnx> running apache at the same time you're trying to use it for web surfing will be S L O W
May 07 12:43:48 <mrglinux> hmm
May 07 12:44:00 <mrglinux> so i have to buy it
May 07 12:44:02 <RST38h> Apache should be ok
May 07 12:44:04 <X-Fade> But ngix and php is doable..
May 07 12:44:20 <RST38h> Symbian phones can run Apache (and other applications at the same time)
May 07 12:44:28 <johnx> mrglinux, it's a 400Mhz CPU with 128MB of RAM . It's not magic. :)
May 07 12:44:34 <RST38h> So, N810 should not have much of a problem, as long as you do not do fancy stuff
May 07 12:45:12 <mrglinux> i just have 300$ :-( and can buy n800 just
May 07 12:45:39 <johnx> the N800 and N810 are the same hardware, except for the keyboard, gps and a slight difference in the screen
May 07 12:45:46 <johnx> same CPU and same RAM
May 07 12:46:06 <mrglinux> johnx no n800 cpu's is 320
May 07 12:46:11 <johnx> no, it's not
May 07 12:46:13 <johnx> kthx
May 07 12:46:45 <mrglinux> johnx http://beans.seartipy.com/2007/10/19/n800-vs-n810-or-who-should-consider-buying-nokia-n810/
May 07 12:46:46 <johnx> it was running underclocked in OS2007, they clocked it up to 400MHz in OS2008
May 07 12:47:25 <X-Fade> Yes johnx is right. The cpu is identical.
May 07 12:47:47 <mrglinux> hmm
May 07 12:47:52 <mrglinux> good
May 07 12:49:57 <timeless> dneary: do you have access to the nokia intranet?
May 07 12:50:06 <dneary> timeless: No
May 07 12:50:10 <timeless> ok, hold on
May 07 12:50:19 <timeless> please join the channel
May 07 12:51:32 <timeless> /join #dneary
May 07 12:52:08 <lardman> timeless: so is it a retu/tavho issue, or some other value to be found in that trivial piece of code...?
May 07 12:52:18 <timeless> hold
May 07 12:52:24 <lardman> ok
May 07 12:54:03 <timeless> sorry, it's not my area
May 07 12:54:12 <timeless> from memory retu/tavho have some hardware value
May 07 12:54:30 <lardman> oh yes, I understand that - as they appear in other Nokia products
May 07 12:54:36 <timeless> iirc the reasons for this one are the kind that one isn't allowed to discuss
May 07 12:54:57 <lardman> ok, so a pretty random sort of reason then; fair enough
May 07 12:55:03 <timeless> i think that something similar appears in other nokia products and therefore the feature is probably considered of value
May 07 12:55:21 <timeless> whereas with those hardware elements the actual data itself has intrinsic value against the other hardware
May 07 12:55:35 <timeless> probably the best comparison is the s60 browser's minimap mode
May 07 12:55:41 <timeless> s60's browser is "open source"
May 07 12:55:41 <lardman> I see, so it's nothing in the code itself, just what it does and how
May 07 12:55:45 <timeless> except when it isn't
May 07 12:55:51 <timeless> minimap is one of those isn'ts
May 07 12:56:05 <timeless> if microb wanted to add a minimap feature, we probably couldn't add the feature as open source
May 07 12:56:11 <timeless> not because it'd be the same code as minimap
May 07 12:56:15 * lardman Googles for minimap
May 07 12:56:23 <timeless> but because the feature was valuable to s60 as a "differentiator"
May 07 12:56:31 * timeless pokes dneary
May 07 12:57:20 <lardman> ah, I see, a bit like the thing the iPod/Phone does
May 07 12:57:43 * timeless ponders
May 07 12:57:53 <timeless> maybe
May 07 12:58:01 <timeless> i don't know which parts of the iphone stuff is open source
May 07 12:58:07 <timeless> that might be a valid comparison
May 07 12:58:13 <lardman> overview of page, and you can zoom in - not quite the same, but similar for useability
May 07 12:58:28 <timeless> i suppose if you want to draw the line on os x, it's easy
May 07 12:58:30 <timeless> Safari is closed
May 07 12:58:32 <timeless> WebKit is open
May 07 12:58:42 <timeless> minimap or a similar feature might be in Safari
May 07 12:58:45 <lardman> ah no, I was wondering what minimap was
May 07 12:58:50 <lardman> ok
May 07 12:59:08 <timeless> if it's in Safari, then another group at apple could conceviably be blocked from releasing a competing feature to some other open source project
May 07 12:59:15 <timeless> if apple worked as nokia does
May 07 12:59:22 <timeless> well, this is all hypothetical
May 07 12:59:27 <timeless> but that's the best comparison i can offer
May 07 12:59:39 <timeless> note that it might be better to write WebCore instead of Safari
May 07 12:59:40 <lardman> I can understand that - that's exactly the explanation people ought to be given
May 07 12:59:53 <timeless> but i'm not a Safari expert
May 07 13:00:08 <timeless> although I am in credits for one of those components :)
May 07 13:00:16 <lardman> :)
May 07 13:00:33 <timeless> anyway, i'm going to dig into scrollback to try to answer dneary's questions
May 07 13:00:35 <timeless> it'll take me a while
May 07 13:00:51 <lardman> enjoy; back to MATLAB for me
May 07 13:02:24 <timeless> minefield is basically firefox prereleases
May 07 13:02:32 <timeless> when firefox is released it's branded firefox
May 07 13:02:43 <timeless> until then we don't want people to think that a nightly is of the same quality and has the same testing
May 07 13:02:49 <timeless> so the unbranded ones are minefields
May 07 13:02:54 <timeless> they could blow up at any time
May 07 13:03:33 <timeless> yes, about:config should work in virtually all gecko derivatives
May 07 13:03:44 <johnx> wow...that's a remarkably sane approach to prereleases...
May 07 13:03:45 <timeless> i can't remember if it works in camino, but i made sure it worked in microb
May 07 13:08:10 <timeless> lardman: the shell is technically busybox's own shell
May 07 13:08:15 <timeless> afaiu
May 07 13:08:27 <timeless> i don't know that it's fair to call it compatible w/ anything (i could be wrong)
May 07 13:08:57 <timeless> johnx: you could have offered the package list that the maemo team published when they compare releases :)
May 07 13:09:04 <timeless> usually newbies are interested in baselines
May 07 13:09:09 <timeless> not that the baseline is remotely useful
May 07 13:09:20 <johnx> I didn't think of it at the time
May 07 13:09:30 <timeless> i'm not blaming you
May 07 13:09:34 <timeless> more of a future suggestion
May 07 13:09:40 <timeless> you'll know when i'm blaming :)
May 07 13:10:04 <johnx> ah, plus he asked for "applications *for* os2007"
May 07 13:10:14 <johnx> not applications "in" or "a part of" os2007
May 07 13:10:48 <johnx> I should add something to infobot...
May 07 13:11:46 <johnx> heh...I just accidentally shut my n800 out from all outside contact :)
May 07 13:12:01 <timeless> ifconfig wifi down
May 07 13:12:02 <timeless> ?
May 07 13:12:07 <timeless> or ifdown wifi ?
May 07 13:12:11 <timeless> i did that to one of my boxes
May 07 13:12:18 <timeless> i felt really clever
May 07 13:12:29 <timeless> i was trying to see if certain boot scripts would work
May 07 13:12:35 <johnx> yeah, the best part is when you're like "I'll be clever so I'll do ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0"
May 07 13:12:42 <timeless> probably software requirements
May 07 13:12:48 <johnx> but then the second never gets run because it looses the controlling terminal...
May 07 13:12:56 <timeless> ooops
May 07 13:13:05 <johnx> screen wins in that case
May 07 13:13:41 <johnx> nah, I'm messing around with debian again, so it's not booting to X, and usb is set to host mode, so no usbnet and the screen blanked too
May 07 13:17:32 <trickie_> johnx: :( i had the same with mamona
May 07 13:17:56 <johnx> ah good, this time wifi came up at least
May 07 13:18:03 <timeless> johnx: did you want to mention the fcc specs for the nokia devices? :)
May 07 13:18:12 * timeless wonders if anyone put those into the wikipedia article
May 07 13:18:36 <johnx> nah, I really want people to just use google :)
May 07 13:18:55 <timeless> heh
May 07 13:18:56 * timeless too
May 07 13:19:25 <timeless> jon++ for giving out wp urls... although i sure hope those are top hits from google
May 07 13:19:50 <timeless> but yeah, it'd be nice if people learned to use google
May 07 13:19:57 <timeless> google first, ask questions later.
May 07 13:20:31 <johnx> I guess I'm surprised when people take the time to find the IRC channel log on and ask questions instead of typing "n800 technical specifications" into google
May 07 13:20:39 * timeless nods
May 07 13:25:43 <RST38h> some people just can't use google
May 07 13:25:59 <RST38h> don't know how to state queries correctly
May 07 13:26:37 <darx> hi, how can i rotate the screen to portrait mode as is shown here http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/tiemu2/
May 07 13:26:56 <darx> I didn't even know that could be done.
May 07 13:27:05 <timeless> in theory the platform has support for it
May 07 13:27:08 <timeless> kinda
May 07 13:27:20 <timeless> the x server doesn't have rotate
May 07 13:27:30 <johnx> darx, googled n800 screen rotation, second result was the guide I used: http://sse2.net/rotate/
May 07 13:27:34 <timeless> but there were bugs filed against components to support alternate angles
May 07 13:27:43 <timeless> err dimensions
May 07 13:27:48 <timeless> and orientations
May 07 13:28:16 <johnx> darx, not however that rotation support is pretty beta, and if you don't know what you're doing may force you to reflash to make your tablet work again
May 07 13:28:22 <johnx> *note
May 07 13:29:24 <ccooke> heh
May 07 13:29:44 <ccooke> Since I installed the rotation support... I have to delete my FBReader config every time I start it
May 07 13:29:53 <timeless> johnx: don't suppose you know how the browser toolbar works in that mode?
May 07 13:29:55 <timeless> http://sse2.net/rotate/shot02.png
May 07 13:29:57 <timeless> has it off
May 07 13:30:20 <johnx> it's a little chunky in non-fullscreen IIRC
May 07 13:30:33 <n800n> is there a nintendo ds emu for maemo?
May 07 13:30:38 <johnx> I think it either cuts off the back button, or cuts off before the back button
May 07 13:30:41 <timeless> lardman: speaking of things that weren't, that was one other ui package that wasn't supposed to be around that had an old version :)
May 07 13:30:43 <johnx> n800n, nope
May 07 13:30:43 <n800n> mornin.
May 07 13:30:49 <n800n> doh
May 07 13:31:04 <johnx> n800n, there's a gameboy advance emu though
May 07 13:31:06 <timeless> johnx: cool, i expected something like that
May 07 13:31:29 <timeless> btw, if you're going to use that mode, i'd suggest you try fennec
May 07 13:31:34 <n800n> yeah, seen that
May 07 13:31:38 <timeless> if fennec doesn't work, file a bug, include steps to reproduce
May 07 13:31:46 <timeless> including the url to how to setup rotated mode
May 07 13:32:00 <johnx> n800n, ds emulation isn't perfect even on the desktop, and the ds has a dedicated 3d processor
May 07 13:32:13 <timeless> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Fennec
May 07 13:32:26 <johnx> timeless, I will if I get back around to installing rotation. That was on a previous flash
May 07 13:32:34 <timeless> cool :)
May 07 13:32:42 <lardman> timeless: ah, so the bug would still need to be resolved on Nokia's end?
May 07 13:32:45 <n800n> so there's not much of a chance huh
May 07 13:32:45 <timeless> btw, it's also ok if you file a bug in bugs.maemo against the browse
May 07 13:32:58 <timeless> but file it as an enhancement
May 07 13:33:04 <timeless> someone will keep it in mind
May 07 13:33:15 <timeless> obviously a screenshot + notes explaining what's wrong would be good
May 07 13:33:24 <timeless> note that the browser has a number of different toolbar modes
May 07 13:33:32 <timeless> it'd be best if you included pictures for all the broken bits
May 07 13:37:02 <RST38h> n800n: why not buy a real ds?
May 07 13:39:23 <n800n> ego
May 07 13:39:37 <n800n> n800>ds
May 07 13:39:53 <johnx> more like: n800 != ds
May 07 13:40:03 <n800n> hah
May 07 13:40:26 <johnx> I will probably get a ds once I have $140 that I don't know what to do with
May 07 13:40:43 <n800n> i have to make music on the n800 soon
May 07 13:40:52 <n800n> to prove it.
May 07 13:41:52 <n800n> i don't like them anymore
May 07 13:42:11 <n800n> they're everywher making people look stupi
May 07 13:42:15 <n800n> d
May 07 13:42:59 <johnx> ah, the urge to be different by buying things that are unpopular :)
May 07 13:43:07 <n800n> i had a songwriting class, this kid brought his ds
May 07 13:43:26 <n800n> trying to play music on it live
May 07 13:43:36 <n800n> makes you look stupid
May 07 13:44:17 <n800n> and here i am with a beautiful touchsvreen an a usb port
May 07 13:44:18 <johnx> fair enough. I think that's a pretty good generalization though: trying to use a piece of electronics like a music instrument will often make you look dumb, especially if you aren't very good
May 07 13:45:08 <n800n> yeah
May 07 13:45:19 <n800n> i'll shut up now
May 07 13:45:21 <johnx> :D
May 07 13:45:24 <n800n> laters
May 07 13:45:45 <johnx> sorry :/
May 07 13:46:27 <johnx> grr...didn't mean to sound so harsh :(
May 07 13:50:20 <Stskeeps> hrm, anyone ever tried to make hildon input method work for rdesktop by abusing rdesktop -X (XEmbed/embed into a window with a specified id), and wrapping it in a pygtk wrapper?
May 07 13:53:24 <timeless> sts: why not use the osk.exe from windows?
May 07 13:53:56 <jott> johnx: oh, look at http://blip.tv/file/get/Mahalodaily-MD080GameboyMusic172.m4v and http://youtube.com/watch?v=bQcp2Mkt_-A :)
May 07 13:53:59 <Stskeeps> timeless: it gets very annoying after a while
May 07 13:54:06 <Stskeeps> and haven't found a good one with good word prediction
May 07 13:54:08 <timeless> dneary: so, thoguhts? :)
May 07 13:55:56 <johnx> jott, yeah, I need to apologize to n800n if he actually ever comes back to the channel :(
May 07 13:58:26 <jott> something like this korg ds thing would be great on the n8x0
May 07 13:58:43 <Grackle> whee, yes it would
May 07 13:58:44 <johnx> wasn't there something already?
May 07 13:59:03 <Grackle> http://gige.xdv.org/pda/
May 07 13:59:10 <Grackle> PDa
May 07 13:59:14 <Grackle> Puredata anywhere
May 07 13:59:21 <Grackle> It's pretty powerful, but ugly as sin.
May 07 14:00:02 <jott> johnx: hmm not that i know of (just milkytracker and schism tracker - but those have a different more classical tracker like approach)
May 07 14:00:44 <johnx> ah, fair enough
May 07 14:02:37 <johnx> hey, cool, confirmation on the sprint+time warner+clearwire+comcast+others wimax deal
May 07 14:02:44 <jott> hm this PDa/pure data seems to go in the direction
May 07 14:03:45 <Grackle> The provided package installs fine, and there are some example patches. Try out the acid patch. It makes some nice TB-303ish sounds.
May 07 14:04:52 <Grackle> It is pretty nice.. It could use some interface work, though, and that may be difficult given that it's all designed to be graphically programmable.
May 07 14:05:30 <jott> tcl/tk ugh that.. classy!? :)
May 07 14:05:55 <jott> yeah i'll give it a shot later
May 07 14:07:12 <jott> i suppose it would be fairly easy to write a decent gui for it for some static patches ;)
May 07 14:09:45 <asedeno_work> Someone else interested in OpenAFS? Whoa.
May 07 14:14:38 * Navi yawns
May 07 14:15:25 <Navi> [08:42:55] <johnx> ah, the urge to be different by buying things that are unpopular :) <- Same here. It makes me look cooler :D
May 07 14:16:02 <johnx> of course it does. :P
May 07 14:25:15 <Navi> bleh, I hate setting stuff back up after reflashing
May 07 14:25:28 <johnx> why the latest reflash?
May 07 14:26:19 <Navi> I removed microb-eal (and the packages that depended on it) thinking that I could reinstall them later from the repos.
May 07 14:26:24 <Navi> Clearly, I was mistaken
May 07 14:26:36 <johnx> ah, yeah
May 07 14:27:01 <Navi> qwerty12, I don't know how you can stand setting up crap again after reflashing :P
May 07 14:27:25 <qwerty12> I know :(. I'm just doing a bit here and there now.
May 07 14:27:44 <qwerty12> I don't have the motivation anymore after about 30+ flashes now
May 07 14:27:49 <Navi> heh
May 07 14:27:53 <johnx> O_o
May 07 14:28:37 <Navi> qwerty12, the control file uses conflicts and replaces instead of provides ^_^
May 07 14:28:52 <qwerty12> Ah :), thanks for correcting me :)
May 07 14:29:05 <Navi> Nah, that's where the problem is
May 07 14:29:13 <Navi> It _should_ be provides
May 07 14:29:31 <Navi> But should replace still be there?
May 07 14:30:33 <qwerty12> No idea :/. Compile newer apt and dpkg :p
May 07 14:30:38 <Navi> :P
May 07 14:31:19 <qwerty12> It can be done very easily but then you need to compile newer application manager which messes things up >.<
May 07 14:31:30 <qwerty12> That was a reflash reason...
May 07 14:31:35 <Navi> heh
May 07 14:31:44 <johnx> you both should really just boot from sd...
May 07 14:31:57 <Navi> johnx, too lazy
May 07 14:32:01 <Navi> make me
May 07 14:32:05 <qwerty12> lol
May 07 14:32:13 <johnx> I don't care either way
May 07 14:32:21 <Navi> :<
May 07 14:32:21 <qwerty12> I will do soon, I just got an 8GB. I'm hoping I don't get any I/O errors :/
May 07 14:32:31 <jott> hmm sick my n810 keyboard just stopped working
May 07 14:32:33 <johnx> but incremental backups with rsync through an sd card reader are awesome
May 07 14:32:53 <Navi> Oh yeah
May 07 14:32:57 <Navi> That's why I don't do it
May 07 14:33:04 <Navi> I don't have a spare SD card big enough
May 07 14:33:15 <johnx> ah, yeah, I'm running into that too :|
May 07 14:34:26 <johnx> I could really make use of about 4 new 8GB cards O_o
May 07 14:34:37 <johnx> maybe 5
May 07 14:34:42 <Navi> heh...
May 07 14:34:52 <Navi> How about giving them away?
May 07 14:35:11 <jott> johnx: one for sid, one for lenny and one for etch? :P
May 07 14:35:12 <johnx> the cards I don't have, but do need?
May 07 14:35:30 <johnx> one each for my older zauruses
May 07 14:35:37 <johnx> one to hold music/videos
May 07 14:35:47 <johnx> one for debian and one for maemo w/ boot-from-sd
May 07 14:36:25 <qwerty12> I want to try out KDE and when I get round to partitioning, your debian :)
May 07 14:36:44 <johnx> working on the new release now
May 07 14:36:53 <johnx> keyboards work reliably, finally!
May 07 14:37:16 <johnx> and a lot of the power savings are there thanks to someone who has more of a clue than me :D
May 07 14:37:22 <qwerty12> gj :)
May 07 14:37:26 <jott> nice
May 07 14:37:51 <jott> so what was it with the kb? just a race condition?
May 07 14:37:57 <johnx> yup
May 07 14:38:06 <johnx> the X server needs to be started a long time after hal
May 07 14:38:13 <jott> yeah
May 07 14:38:21 <jott> makes sense
May 07 14:38:48 <johnx> so it will start last (S99) and that's all there is to it
May 07 14:38:55 <johnx> hopefully it won't be a problem anymore
May 07 14:39:21 <johnx> I just need to decide whether to try and use a login manager like gdm or kdm or wdm and how to make that work for n800 users
May 07 14:39:45 <qwerty12> gdm has some accessibility options right? maybe a bit of tweaking :/
May 07 14:40:15 <johnx> I might try to make gpe-dm run, but I don't think it has any idea about session selection :/
May 07 14:40:32 <johnx> it does have a nice onscreen keyboard built in though
May 07 14:41:08 <Navi> :o
May 07 14:42:12 <johnx> ah, nevermind. found something much better :D
May 07 14:42:48 <jott> johnx: i would suggest to try to make a good first impression so it attracts people. everyone knowing what the implications (of a full debian) are, will tweak it towards his personal preferences anyway
May 07 14:43:26 <johnx> yeah, that's why I'm so glad to find "wmanager - Select a window manager at X startup"
May 07 14:43:55 <johnx> I don't see how anyone could complain about that :)
May 07 14:45:49 * jott spawns an army of whiners
May 07 14:46:21 <Navi> woo, whiners
May 07 14:46:28 <czr> whinerschnitzels
May 07 14:46:30 <johnx> nevermind, not as useful as I hoped
May 07 14:46:35 <lopz> hola
May 07 14:46:39 <johnx> hi
May 07 14:47:07 * qwerty12 grabs my rocket launcher and blasts the mofo whiners
May 07 14:47:15 <Navi> qwerty12, mmk, I just whipped up the package
May 07 14:47:27 <qwerty12> Navi, Great, thanks :)
May 07 14:47:36 <Navi> Uploading it in a sec
May 07 14:50:08 <johnx> wow, wmanager is fantastically useless
May 07 14:50:19 <qwerty12> Now we can complain :p
May 07 14:50:35 <johnx> nah, I'll just drop people off at a console
May 07 14:50:41 <johnx> for the real "debian experience"
May 07 14:51:01 <Navi> qwerty12, bleh
May 07 14:51:10 * qwerty12 is glad to use Ubuntu - Debian for n00bs
May 07 14:51:15 <Navi> adding Provides: libgtkmozembed didn't work :P
May 07 14:51:19 <johnx> qwerty12, ahahaha
May 07 14:51:56 <Navi> when doing apt-get -f install, it still wants to remove all of those packages.
May 07 14:52:02 <qwerty12> Damn, now I'm gonna have to load up leafpad on the status file :/
May 07 14:52:24 <qwerty12> Thanks for recreating the package though
May 07 14:52:28 <Navi> yeah
May 07 14:52:45 <Navi> uploaded it to http://www.xenf.net/microb/ if you want to check it out
May 07 14:52:48 <Navi> -2
May 07 14:53:12 <qwerty12> Thanks but if it doesn't work, no point in wasting bandwidth.
May 07 14:53:18 <qwerty12> Yours that is.
May 07 14:53:36 <Navi> only 100kb
May 07 14:54:00 <qwerty12> Ah, skeen. I think I'll just do search and replace though.
May 07 14:55:36 <Navi> Heh
May 07 14:58:31 <Navi> Now I don't know what to do
May 07 14:58:56 <qwerty12> Grab Diablo from SVN :p
May 07 14:58:59 <Navi> Hey look, newest ncftp has tab completion
May 07 14:59:10 <Navi> The tablet UI is proprietary dood
May 07 14:59:16 <Navi> tablet-browser
May 07 14:59:27 <Navi> or whatever it was called
May 07 14:59:35 <Navi> oh, Diablo
May 07 14:59:40 <Navi> >_>
May 07 14:59:55 <Navi> nou
May 07 15:00:12 <Navi> I was thinking of either changing microb-gtkmozembed
May 07 15:00:33 <qwerty12> How about just making a meta-package?
May 07 15:00:44 <Navi> or that
May 07 15:00:48 <Navi> Oh, I'm a retard.
May 07 15:01:19 <Navi> nevermind
May 07 15:05:41 * timeless pokes navi :)
May 07 15:05:48 <Navi> Ahh!
May 07 15:05:49 * qwerty12 needs to get back in the scratchbox game. I really want to get my Caps button back, not this crap En button. 
May 07 15:06:02 <Navi> timeless, I got up to the perl script
May 07 15:06:31 <Navi> but the bash script that the perl script generates is empty besides the #!/bin/bash
May 07 15:06:54 <qwerty12> You can download the bash scripts of his website too afaik
May 07 15:08:05 <Navi> Yeah, do-dpkg.sh, do-all-pkgs.sh. and build-control.pl
May 07 15:08:45 <Navi> Except it looks like the server tries to execute the perl script :P
May 07 15:08:49 <aVirulence> hi, I have a bit of a problem, does someone know under which /dev name hal creates the memory card device when the usb cable is connected?
May 07 15:08:58 <qwerty12> Navi, lol
May 07 15:09:03 <aVirulence> only the internal memory is automatically mounted
May 07 15:09:33 <timeless> um
May 07 15:09:37 <timeless> well, heh
May 07 15:09:38 <timeless> :)
May 07 15:09:44 <timeless> you're not supposed to run my perl script anyway
May 07 15:09:54 <timeless> it's generated by one of the .sh files that you run on the device :)
May 07 15:09:55 <Navi> Gah >_>
May 07 15:10:14 <Navi> You and your ambiguous scripts :P
May 07 15:10:26 <kulve> aVirulence: on your pc?
May 07 15:10:37 <aVirulence> kulve, yes
May 07 15:10:53 <Navi> "You then need to transfer device-files.tar to the system that can run build-control.pl and run it." But it tells me to!
May 07 15:11:39 <kulve> aVirulence: it depends on your setup. It mounts the external as the first (often /dev/sda1) and the internal as the second (often /dev/sdb1) but your disk or usb sticks may change that. See "dmesg" after plugging in the cable to see the right device
May 07 15:13:30 <aVirulence> kulve, that's a bit of a problem, see, hal mounts the internal memory twice.. only /dev/sdd1 shows up which is the internal memory
May 07 15:13:36 <timeless> ok, reload the directory index
May 07 15:14:03 <Navi> woo
May 07 15:14:06 <timeless> my .pl script is documented in the 2007 file that you were supposed to read :)
May 07 15:14:09 <kulve> aVirulence: that sounds very odd..
May 07 15:14:15 <timeless> anyway the .pl-txt files should be readable
May 07 15:14:21 <Navi> timeless, I did ;_;
May 07 15:14:25 <timeless> not sure why the server is trying to run the files, they aren't +x
May 07 15:14:34 <timeless> navi: really? :(
May 07 15:14:53 <timeless> it didn't explain clearly enough that you run the generated .pl file on a normal debian? :(
May 07 15:14:57 <Navi> Let me give it one more go
May 07 15:15:09 <aVirulence> kulve, actually, it gets even odder, my internal memory was busy the last time I mounted it: the memory card got mounted twice!
May 07 15:15:31 <aVirulence> might be my system, though
May 07 15:15:42 <timeless> navi: anyway, do-all-pkgs.sh would need to be changed to search for whatever you actually want to get
May 07 15:15:47 <timeless> hrm
May 07 15:15:56 <Navi> I did
May 07 15:16:26 <timeless> hrm
May 07 15:16:31 <Navi> sec
May 07 15:16:35 <timeless> i wonder what script 'a' was
May 07 15:16:51 <timeless> heh, kinda funny isn't it
May 07 15:16:59 <timeless> do-all-pkgs tries to run itself :)
May 07 15:17:14 <timeless> definitely not quite finished :)
May 07 15:17:57 <timeless> anyway, get rid of everything after the tar command
May 07 15:18:10 <Navi> Oh
May 07 15:18:12 <Navi> I noticed that earlier
May 07 15:18:14 <timeless> oh suck, there's a tree.sh somewhere
May 07 15:18:25 <Navi> it's a side effect of using cat > do-all-pkgs.sh << EOF
May 07 15:19:01 <Navi> it decided to throw in my entire directory of scripts and try to execute them
May 07 15:19:46 * qwerty12 <3 conky
May 07 15:19:51 <Navi> indeed
May 07 15:21:28 <timeless> oh
May 07 15:21:35 <timeless> no, right, do-pkdg.sh generates tree
May 07 15:21:41 <johnx> ok, well wdm is officially off the candidate list for display manager as it triggers a kernel oops O_o
May 07 15:21:47 <Navi> Heh
May 07 15:21:57 <Navi> I have kernel panics in my nightmares
May 07 15:21:59 <timeless> clearly i haven't used this script recently :)
May 07 15:22:31 <timeless> anyway, i have to leave
May 07 15:22:35 <timeless> i'll be back in an hour or two
May 07 15:22:35 <Navi> Bye
May 07 15:22:38 <Navi> kk
May 07 15:22:55 <timeless> but really, please try to get the scripts to work
May 07 15:23:00 <Navi> kk
May 07 15:23:03 <timeless> and let me know which bugs i need to fix :)
May 07 15:23:07 <timeless> mailto: timeless@gmail
May 07 15:23:12 <timeless> since i probably will miss this
May 07 15:23:14 <timeless> or /msg timelyx
May 07 15:23:27 <Navi> I don't know what I'm doing wrong :/
May 07 15:25:56 <Navi> Woo, I have my rss feed reader app back
May 07 15:26:10 <qwerty12> The mini applet? :)
May 07 15:26:15 <qwerty12> (I love that BTW)
May 07 15:26:54 <Navi> I figured out that the scrollbar also borks on the applet that comes with the tablet
May 07 15:27:25 <Navi> It's just not as noticeable
May 07 15:27:38 <Navi> Is omweather working for anyone?
May 07 15:27:56 <Navi> It stopped working yesterday
May 07 15:28:09 <Blafasel> hrhr.. I never understood the "weather forecast" type of apps
May 07 15:28:12 <qwerty12> It stopped for me too, about 2 days ago
May 07 15:28:26 <qwerty12> I'm gonna clean out gconf entries and try again soon
May 07 15:28:43 <Navi> Blafasel, quicker than checking the news or opening a browser
May 07 15:28:54 <johnx> stopped working here too
May 07 15:29:01 <Navi> just glance at the applet and you're good to go
May 07 15:30:52 <Navi> qwerty12, so, I guess I can make a proper deb and throw that out too
May 07 15:31:17 <qwerty12> Cool :)
May 07 15:35:28 <RST38h> *yawn*
May 07 15:36:05 <RST38h> Blafasel: hey, OMweather saves me a visit to the weather website
May 07 15:36:07 <Navi> yawn indeed
May 07 15:36:16 <Navi> RST38h, exactly :D
May 07 15:36:22 <RST38h> What's new and exciting in the tablet world?
May 07 15:36:38 * Navi shrugs
May 07 15:36:39 <johnx> not that much, hacking out a new debian tarball
May 07 15:36:52 <Navi> timeless has scripts to generate debs
May 07 15:36:57 <johnx> thinking about why sapwood server fails to succeed on my zaurus
May 07 15:36:59 <Navi> from the preinstalled apps
May 07 15:37:06 <Navi> I can't get them to work >_>
May 07 15:37:15 <johnx> Navi, does he just use dpkg-repack or something else?
May 07 15:37:40 <Navi> http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n800/microb-3.2007
May 07 15:38:16 <Navi> dpkg-repack sounds more conventional
May 07 15:39:51 <johnx> if you wanted to you could just: rsync the rootfs over to a debian desktop, maybe use dpkg --get-selections (or whatever it is) on the tablet
May 07 15:40:08 <johnx> and iterate through that using dpkg-repack to repack any installed package on the desktop
May 07 15:40:25 <johnx> hypothetically of course :)
May 07 15:40:31 <Navi> Heh
May 07 15:41:17 <Navi> Someone tell timey when he gets back
May 07 15:41:42 <johnx> I assume he didn't want to have to install debian on a desktop
May 07 15:41:52 <johnx> and dpkg-repack pulls in a lot of stuff as deps
May 07 15:42:09 <Navi> Well, you could do it in scratchbox if you wanted, probably
May 07 15:42:23 <johnx> err...maybe
May 07 15:42:24 <Navi> You need dpkg with his scripts as well
May 07 15:42:35 <johnx> you need a lot of dpkg dev stuff for dpkg-repack
May 07 15:42:42 <johnx> more than is included in sbox I think
May 07 15:42:54 <Navi> mmm
May 07 15:42:59 <johnx> a debian chroot on another linux machine or debian in a vmware install would be fine
May 07 15:43:03 <johnx> overkill, but fine
May 07 15:43:11 <Navi> heh
May 07 15:45:29 <Navi> Anyways, time to go
May 07 15:45:42 <Navi> Pray that I past my Chem exam for me :P
May 07 15:45:46 <qwerty12> Bye, good lucj
May 07 15:45:47 <johnx> good luck
May 07 15:45:52 <qwerty12> s/lucj/luck
May 07 15:46:00 <Navi> thanks
May 07 15:51:10 <Navi> Oh yeah, someone else try using timeless's scripts
May 07 15:51:20 <Navi> I can't get them to work.
May 07 15:52:06 <Navi> zoom
May 07 15:56:55 <X-Fade> Hey pH5, any news on the powervr driver? :)
May 07 15:59:59 <pH5> X-Fade: no :(
May 07 16:01:02 <pH5> I've added the reset procedure and enabled interrupts, but I don't receive any. Not sure whether my setup is wrong or I'm just not supposed to see any activity from the mbx at this level.
May 07 16:02:28 <X-Fade> Hmm that is unfortunate :(
May 07 16:39:16 <jldiaz> how can I find wich release of OS2008 I have installed?
May 07 16:39:30 <johnx> control panel -> about (I think)
May 07 16:41:03 <jldiaz> johnx, right. Thanks
May 07 16:41:40 <jldiaz> Hum. I have 2.2007.50-2, but the latest is 51-3. Should I upgrade?
May 07 16:42:45 <johnx> 51-3 only fixed a very specific issue that some people were having with not being able to turn on their tablet after turning it off
May 07 16:43:17 <johnx> even if you're having that problem, there is a way to install the update without having to do a complete reflash (along with reinstalling all your stuff)
May 07 16:43:42 <jldiaz> ok, I better keep the current version
May 07 16:44:31 <jldiaz> can the .bin image downloaded from nokia be mounted on ubuntu with -o loop?
May 07 16:44:42 <johnx> not exactly
May 07 16:44:51 <johnx> first use the flasher to extract it
May 07 16:45:03 <johnx> then you'll need to load modules to emulate an mtd device in ram
May 07 16:45:12 <johnx> then you can dd the image onto that and mount it
May 07 16:45:43 <johnx> you'll want to be looking up info about "mounting a jffs2 image on a desktop"
May 07 16:45:49 <johnx> or something similar
May 07 16:46:11 <johnx> ah, fun, earthquake
May 07 16:47:10 <jldiaz> thanks again
May 07 16:48:21 <johnx> I tried to do it a couple times, but it's somewhat tricky to emulate that big of an mtd device in RAM
May 07 16:48:32 <johnx> I think the kernel needs about 128MB or so of contiguous memory
May 07 16:48:41 <johnx> which it is unlikely to have in a running linux system
May 07 16:49:03 <johnx> ah, if you're talking about using this technique to apply the update, it's not necessary
May 07 16:49:16 <johnx> the update was just a change to the boot loader and can be flashed separately
May 07 16:54:23 <jldiaz> no, I was trying to recover the original version of xterm
May 07 16:56:48 <jldiaz> but I can't
May 07 16:57:01 <jldiaz> dd complains about insufficient space in /dev/mtd0
May 07 16:57:33 <johnx> when you load the module, the parameter you're giving it is the size of the mtd-ram device you're making
May 07 16:58:07 <jldiaz> I didn't give any parameter
May 07 16:58:18 <johnx> ah
May 07 16:58:24 <johnx> there might be a default then
May 07 16:58:33 <johnx> modinfo mtd-ram.ko
May 07 16:58:41 <johnx> but let me see if I can just make you a .deb of osso-xterm
May 07 16:59:16 <jldiaz> oh, thank you
May 07 16:59:35 <johnx> no promises. this will be an experiment O_o
May 07 17:01:06 <jldiaz> :)
May 07 17:01:19 <jldiaz> what is the syntax for passing a parameter to a module?
May 07 17:01:29 <jldiaz> I tried "modprobe mtdram 128" but not worked
May 07 17:01:37 <johnx> modprobe module-foo param=128
May 07 17:02:23 <johnx> well, I think that worked :)
May 07 17:02:31 <johnx> how would you like me to send it to you?
May 07 17:04:44 <jldiaz> email? Is it not too big?
May 07 17:05:20 <jldiaz> I'm still trying to mount the image myself. I did the following:
May 07 17:05:30 <jldiaz> modprobe the modules related to jffs2
May 07 17:05:44 <johnx> hmm...actually I'm worried it might not have worked
May 07 17:05:46 <johnx> it's 40K
May 07 17:06:02 <jldiaz> modprobe mtdram total_size=128 erase_size=128
May 07 17:06:27 <jldiaz> modprobe also mtdchar and mtdblock (without parameters)
May 07 17:06:29 <jldiaz> dd if=rootfs.jffs2 of=/dev/mtd0
May 07 17:06:38 <johnx> you just specified size in KB
May 07 17:06:52 <jldiaz> Ops, you are right. It should be Mb
May 07 17:06:56 <johnx> you want something like 131000
May 07 17:07:04 <jldiaz> also for erase_size?
May 07 17:07:16 <johnx> er...I think you can leave that out
May 07 17:07:25 <johnx> the default should be reasonable
May 07 17:08:26 <jldiaz> ok, I hit the memory problem
May 07 17:08:39 <jldiaz> modprobe mtdram total_size=133000
May 07 17:08:48 <jldiaz> Fatal: Error inserting mtdram (/lib/modules/2.6.20-16-generic/kernel/drivers/mtd/devices/mtdram.ko): Cannot allocate memory
May 07 17:08:53 <johnx> anyways, I think this osso-xterm package worked
May 07 17:09:07 <johnx> want to send me your email address by private message?
May 07 17:09:12 <jldiaz> ok
May 07 17:09:47 <jldiaz> ops, privates blocked
May 07 17:10:02 <jldiaz> I forgot the syntax for identifying myself
May 07 17:10:09 <johnx> ah
May 07 17:10:21 <jldiaz> nevermind
May 07 17:10:23 <Fatal> jldiaz: would you like me to allocate some for you?
May 07 17:10:45 <jldiaz> jldiaz@gmail.com
May 07 17:10:54 <jldiaz> Fatal: :-)
May 07 17:12:21 <jldiaz> got it
May 07 17:12:30 <jldiaz> thank you very much
May 07 17:12:34 <johnx> good, now we'll see if it works :)
May 07 17:15:57 <jldiaz> well.. it installed without errors
May 07 17:16:03 <jldiaz> now let's see if it runs :-)
May 07 17:16:21 <jldiaz> ok!
May 07 17:16:29 <jldiaz> it worked!
May 07 17:17:27 <johnx> great!
May 07 17:17:39 <johnx> thanks to the magic of sshfs+dpkg-repack
May 07 17:20:00 <unixSnob> anyone here attempt to call the UK before?
May 07 17:20:40 <unixSnob> I'm trying to call someone using the country code 44, and just hear a siren instead of a normal ring
May 07 17:20:59 <johnx> oh no, you've set off the ter'rist alert!
May 07 17:21:53 <unixSnob> I've set it off a few times now
May 07 17:22:52 <jldiaz> is it possible to configure xterm for launching by default in fullscreen mode?
May 07 17:24:07 <jldiaz> I'm trying to get ride of the toolbar once and forever. I had success for windowed mode, but when changing to fullscreen, the toolbar reappears. I think I could solve the problem if xterm lauched directly in fullscreen
May 07 17:26:53 <johnx> can anyone recommend a good (cheap) web host?
May 07 17:28:50 <MangoFusion> when you factor in "cheap", "good" tends not to factor into the solution
May 07 17:28:54 <MangoFusion> ;)
May 07 17:29:10 <Navi> johnx, you could go with bluehost
May 07 17:29:18 <johnx> in this order of priorities: good, cheap, lots of bandwidth
May 07 17:29:26 <johnx> Navi, thanks *looks them up*
May 07 17:29:36 <MangoFusion> lots of horror stories out there about the cheapo "high bandwidth" hosts
May 07 17:29:38 <Navi> Bluehost is good for the price, but I hate them.
May 07 17:29:48 <johnx> ah
May 07 17:29:52 <MangoFusion> unixSnob: siren?
May 07 17:30:03 <johnx> MangoFusion, that's why "lots of bandwidth" is the lowest priority
May 07 17:30:25 <Navi> johnx, http://www.slicehost.com/ <- My favorite VPS provider
May 07 17:31:01 <unixSnob> MangoFusion: Not sure how else to describe it.. it's a modulating sound like an emergency vehicle might make, without pause
May 07 17:31:02 <johnx> that's a nice chunk of bandwidth for $20
May 07 17:31:03 <MangoFusion> haha
May 07 17:31:31 <MangoFusion> unixSnob: being in the uk myself, the only time i heard a siren on the phone is when i didn't replace the handset ;)
May 07 17:31:44 <Capn_Fish> johnx: Hey
May 07 17:31:46 <Navi> They're extremely reliable and don't try to cut you
May 07 17:31:50 <johnx> hey Capn_Fish
May 07 17:31:58 <MangoFusion> i think when you prefix with +44 you can ignore the first digit (usually 0) on the number
May 07 17:32:08 <johnx> I just got debian booting nicely into xfce and I'm about to try and add rotation support :)
May 07 17:32:08 <Capn_Fish> I do have at least one idea for the Debian thing
May 07 17:32:14 <Capn_Fish> Cool!
May 07 17:32:17 <unixSnob> well, the sound plays for a while, and is followed by "cannot be connected" message
May 07 17:32:19 <Capn_Fish> I'd like right-clicking
May 07 17:32:20 <Navi> johnx, nice
May 07 17:32:33 <MangoFusion> dodgy call center perhaps?
May 07 17:32:35 <unixSnob> MangoFusion: ah, yeah, I was wondering if digits should be dropped
May 07 17:32:37 <Capn_Fish> I started hacking together a Zaurus app that would do that
May 07 17:32:37 <johnx> Capn_Fish, ah, right. that was the other thing. Do you know anything about gtkstylus?
May 07 17:32:41 <unixSnob> I'll try dropping the zero
May 07 17:32:51 <johnx> that's what GPE uses and it's in debian now
May 07 17:32:55 <Capn_Fish> Nothing about gtkstylus
May 07 17:33:02 <johnx> I just don't know how to make it actually work :/
May 07 17:33:27 <johnx> I think it's a gtk input module, maybe?
May 07 17:33:50 <johnx> also got boot messages to show. makes things feel a lot more debiany :)
May 07 17:34:07 <n800n> if i save gif images at 800 x 480 for viewing as slideshow in canola or other image viewers full screen there shouldn't be any resizing, correct?
May 07 17:34:11 <Capn_Fish> I just made a little daemon that caught all mouse clicks and then checked if keys were pressed, then killed the mouse click and made a right click event
May 07 17:34:47 <johnx> hmm...I might go for that if I can't make gtkstylus work
May 07 17:34:50 <Capn_Fish> I never got it to work right, though
May 07 17:34:58 <johnx> it provides a nice simple tap&hold solution
May 07 17:35:03 <Capn_Fish> It didn't catch key release events for some reason
May 07 17:35:17 <Capn_Fish> Hmm...I'd like to be able to stick right clicking in the WM
May 07 17:35:21 <Capn_Fish> Less overhead :)
May 07 17:35:45 <johnx> I think it's pretty low-overhead as a gtk module too
May 07 17:35:45 <Capn_Fish> I'm probably way to used to saving every byte of RAM I can, but it can't hurt
May 07 17:36:06 <johnx> 128MB of RAM is sooo nice to have. :)
May 07 17:36:15 <Capn_Fish> Yeah, and 128MB is a LOT for an embedded system
May 07 17:36:21 <johnx> It makes such a difference for web browsing vs my akita
May 07 17:36:27 <Capn_Fish> My Zaurus only has 64 MB
May 07 17:36:38 <Capn_Fish> You keep beating me to what I want to say :O
May 07 17:37:01 <Capn_Fish> How does the keyboard work in X?
May 07 17:37:09 <johnx> it works well :)
May 07 17:37:22 <johnx> for my usb keyboard I just plug it in and it's happy
May 07 17:37:35 <Navi> woo
May 07 17:37:38 <Navi> usb keyboard
May 07 17:37:40 <Capn_Fish> Do you have an N800 or an N810?
May 07 17:37:43 <johnx> N800
May 07 17:37:51 <Capn_Fish> Hmm...
May 07 17:37:51 <Navi> couldn't you go with something lighter than xfce4?
May 07 17:37:53 <Navi> :D
May 07 17:38:00 <Capn_Fish> I'll have to fiddle with the hardware keyboard, then
May 07 17:38:08 * johnx smacks Navi for whining before the release :P
May 07 17:38:11 <Navi> *twm* *twm*
May 07 17:38:13 <Capn_Fish> It worked in the CLI when I got to it by some fluke a while back
May 07 17:38:18 <Navi> *twm* *twm* *twm*
May 07 17:38:25 <Capn_Fish> TWM FTL. EvilWM's where it's at!
May 07 17:38:29 <johnx> Navi, whine after the release :P
May 07 17:38:33 <Navi> johnx, I whined a few days ago too
May 07 17:38:40 <Navi> kk
May 07 17:38:40 <johnx> Capn_Fish, yeah, it works on the CLI
May 07 17:38:46 <johnx> it's a HAL thing with Xomap
May 07 17:38:51 <johnx> Xomap is ... special
May 07 17:39:04 <Capn_Fish> I see. How hard would it be to fix?
May 07 17:39:11 <johnx> Capn_Fish, it works now
May 07 17:39:20 <Navi> johnx, don't blame me if your release topic is spammed with light wm requests.
May 07 17:39:32 <johnx> I'm 90% sure that when I release this the N810 keyboard will "just work" in X
May 07 17:39:36 <Capn_Fish> Wait, it does work in X11, or just in the CLI?
May 07 17:39:43 <Capn_Fish> Nice!
May 07 17:39:44 <johnx> should work in both
May 07 17:40:20 <Capn_Fish> cool.
May 07 17:40:34 <Capn_Fish> Perhaps I can FINALLY ditch OS2008 :D
May 07 17:40:46 <johnx> eh, don't count on it
May 07 17:40:51 <Capn_Fish> :(
May 07 17:40:52 <johnx> there's a lot left to do :/
May 07 17:41:03 <Navi> Yeah, like getting dwm as the default wm
May 07 17:41:17 <Capn_Fish> I'm OK with beta stuff
May 07 17:41:31 <johnx> Navi, i will include instructions that will make it pretty simple to change which wm is launched
May 07 17:41:32 <Navi> johnx, hildon apps working yet?
May 07 17:41:35 <Capn_Fish> Heck, I was running the alpha pdaXrom r198 on my Zaurus for some 1.5 year
May 07 17:41:38 <johnx> Navi, nope
May 07 17:41:43 <johnx> not worrying about that for now
May 07 17:41:51 <Navi> Oh, I'm sure I can figure out how to do it myself :P
May 07 17:41:54 <johnx> by popular request I'm focusing on getting a "real linux desktop" first
May 07 17:42:00 <Navi> mmk
May 07 17:42:01 <Capn_Fish> g2g
May 07 17:42:03 <Capn_Fish> sorry
May 07 17:42:26 <johnx> no worries. Just help field newb questions when I release this, :)
May 07 17:42:46 <Navi> With my usual trollish statements or actually be helpful?
May 07 17:42:50 <Navi> :D
May 07 17:43:09 <johnx> both of you need to be *helpful* :P
May 07 17:43:12 <johnx> that's all I ask
May 07 17:43:17 <Navi> Yeah, I'll do what I can.
May 07 17:43:47 <johnx> I'm going to lessen the "BIG RED DISCLAIMER" a little this time and provide screenshots
May 07 17:43:57 <Navi> Heh
May 07 17:44:13 <Navi> I discovered that size 7 for big red disclamers was too big
May 07 17:44:20 <Navi> s/am/aim/
May 07 17:44:20 <infobot> Navi meant: I discovered that size 7 for big red disclaimers was too big
May 07 17:44:24 <johnx> actually it worked well
May 07 17:44:29 <Navi> Pfft
May 07 17:44:32 <johnx> it filled the whole first page of my browser :)
May 07 17:44:37 <Navi> >_>
May 07 17:44:46 <n800n> s/am/aim/
May 07 17:44:50 <n800n> ?
May 07 17:44:56 <Navi> sed
May 07 17:45:13 <johnx> hey n800n. sorry I was kinda harsh earlier.
May 07 17:45:13 <Navi> s/replace this/with this/
May 07 17:45:21 <Navi> For example
May 07 17:45:24 <n800n> you were?
May 07 17:45:24 <Navi> s/For/cool/
May 07 17:45:25 <infobot> Navi meant: cool example
May 07 17:45:32 <johnx> ah, I thought that's why you left?
May 07 17:45:47 <johnx> nevermind then :D
May 07 17:45:52 <n800n> oh no, i don't get offended easily, plus there was no reason to be offended
May 07 17:46:03 <n800n> as far as i'm concerned everybody here is an ass
May 07 17:46:10 <Navi> Haha
May 07 17:46:12 <johnx> good strategy
May 07 17:46:35 <gnuSnob> MangoFusion: that was it.. i just had to drop the zero.  Thanks!
May 07 17:46:48 <Navi> Man, I'm broke
May 07 17:46:51 * gnuSnob can't stand the silly exceptions in dialing rules
May 07 17:46:58 <Navi> I don't even have money for a tank of gas
May 07 17:47:16 <gnuSnob> I thought zeros only had to be dropped in the case of mobile phones
May 07 17:47:39 <gnuSnob> Navi: that's kuz you spend all your time in here, no?
May 07 17:47:45 <Navi> Indeed it is
May 07 17:47:50 <MangoFusion> i think mobiles are just one of the many places you notice it ;)
May 07 17:47:56 <a_l_e> hello... i need a program to play oggs and mp3 on the n810... and i'd like something that just shows the tracks in the directories, so that i can just drop the sd card and it forgets what was in there... any hint?
May 07 17:48:00 <gnuSnob> You'd be a wealthy man if you got paid for #maemo chat
May 07 17:48:14 <johnx> why back in my day a tank of gas was $15!
May 07 17:48:18 <Navi> :P
May 07 17:48:39 <Navi> You also burned it all away in a heartbeat
May 07 17:48:56 <johnx> eh, actually I went 400+ miles on a tank :)
May 07 17:49:10 <Navi> a_l_e, canola can do so with ogg support installed, I think
May 07 17:49:27 <gnuSnob> I read a stat that the average mpg has /gone up/ in the past 20 years
May 07 17:50:07 <n800n> canola + http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=114142 worked for me
May 07 17:50:15 <Navi> Just stay away from American cars and we're good on mpg
May 07 17:50:18 <gnuSnob> it's because folks are buying bigger cars.. and because technology that could be used to increase efficiency is actually being used to increase performance
May 07 17:50:38 <johnx> also cars are getting heavier with safety features
May 07 17:50:42 <a_l_e> ... so, i'm looking at canola...
May 07 17:51:43 <johnx> a_l_e, audio -> my music -> browse by folder
May 07 17:52:11 <johnx> but you have to set which folders have music first :)
May 07 17:52:48 <n800n> i just got a neuro osd for a friend
May 07 17:52:51 <n800n> it's pretty cool
May 07 17:52:52 <gnuSnob> will canola work on my porno collection, or is it just for music?
May 07 17:53:18 <n800n> only straight porn
May 07 17:53:22 <Navi> gnuSnob, It'll work on your porno collection if you wire 100 bucks to my bank account
May 07 17:54:36 * gnuSnob would rather sneak around the living room and get the job done when no one sees, than pay $100 to take the NIT to bed
May 07 17:55:15 <johnx> gah
May 07 17:55:17 <Navi> ?
May 07 17:55:46 <johnx> have read! cannot un-read!
May 07 17:55:53 <Navi> Hehe
May 07 17:56:14 <Navi> Gouge your eyes out as prevention
May 07 17:56:27 <n800n> do all imageviewers need to proload image folders? is there one that doesn't need to?
May 07 17:56:33 <n800n> preload*
May 07 17:57:06 <n800n> canola has been updating the library for abput 5 minutes, starting to think it's no the best for this
May 07 17:57:16 <n800n> i have a few thousand pics tho
May 07 17:57:50 <zap> the idea to have a database of everything is faulty
May 07 17:57:54 <johnx> maybe quiver? or the builtin image viewer?
May 07 17:58:05 <zap> I can organize my folders pretty much without the help of any app
May 07 17:58:06 <johnx> I miss gqview on any platform that doesn't have it
May 07 17:58:13 <n800n> quiver seemd lighter, i'll try that
May 07 17:58:56 <zap> Is there any way to stop WiFi from becoming painfully slow when I ssh into the tablet? It works fine (mostly) when I connect from N810, but when doing the reverse it seems that it goes to sleep pretty early.
May 07 17:59:27 <Robot101> zap: leave a ping running
May 07 17:59:47 <Robot101> zap: the problem is the wifi antenna only turns on when the tablet is sending data, or replying to stuff
May 07 17:59:58 <a_l_e> how's kilikali?
May 07 18:00:02 <zap> is that a hardware thing?
May 07 18:00:02 <johnx> test if lowering the power savings has an effect?
May 07 18:00:05 <Robot101> zap: so it seems unresponsive to incoming stuff unless you cause the device to keep sending periodically
May 07 18:00:23 <zap> I even tried to do "iwconfig wlan0 power off"
May 07 18:00:27 <zap> but it doesn't help
May 07 18:00:28 <RST38h> btw, built in Maemo image viewer chokes on large jpegs
May 07 18:00:36 <johnx> why not just try the UI power settings?
May 07 18:00:39 <RST38h> says out of memory and dies or something like this
May 07 18:00:44 <zap> jobecause they don't work
May 07 18:00:48 <johnx> really?
May 07 18:01:05 <zap> well, what settings do you mean
May 07 18:01:12 <zap> maybe I tried the wrong stuff
May 07 18:01:32 <zap> Wifi icon -> Connection settings?
May 07 18:02:25 <johnx> under the specific network settings in advanced
May 07 18:02:34 <johnx> power saving: on (maximum)
May 07 18:02:55 <zap> in control panel?
May 07 18:03:30 <johnx> control panel -> connectivity -> connections -> your-network-name -> edit -> next x3 -> advanced
May 07 18:04:32 <zap> huh, haven't found those
May 07 18:04:38 <zap> thank you, I'll try
May 07 18:05:00 <johnx> sure, I haven't played with them much either, because my tablet plays nice with my AP
May 07 18:05:03 <zap> and still, how one would ping something? the 'ping' from busybox keeps telling me that I don't have enough priviledges :)
May 07 18:05:23 <johnx> become root :)
May 07 18:05:56 <a_l_e> i'll first try kilikali, first... it's 400Kb against 20Mb!
May 07 18:06:28 <zap> how? su tells me that its not a suid binary, and making busybox suid root is idiocy :)
May 07 18:07:25 <johnx> nitapps.com -> easyroot
May 07 18:07:31 <johnx> or google for becomeroot
May 07 18:07:37 <johnx> or set your tablet into r&d mode
May 07 18:07:41 <n800n> hm quiver is fast
May 07 18:09:09 <n800n> but it doesn't automatically flip images
May 07 18:10:27 <RST38h> Borland kaput
May 07 18:10:36 <RST38h> Took awfully long
May 07 18:10:40 <johnx> they're still around?
May 07 18:10:41 <a_l_e> well, kilikali won't do... it can't recursive add songs...
May 07 18:10:45 <Navi> johnx, or you could ssh into yourself
May 07 18:11:26 <johnx> or that, yes
May 07 18:11:37 * Navi is too lazy to install easyroot
May 07 18:11:53 <johnx> yeah, the clicking on things is tough
May 07 18:12:01 <Navi> iknorite?
May 07 18:12:04 * lcuk waves an easyeasyrootinstall link at navi :P
May 07 18:12:12 * Navi cries
May 07 18:12:40 <lcuk> navi - is sshing yourself in public legal in your country?
May 07 18:12:50 <Navi> lol
May 07 18:12:57 <zap> Ah, what a relief to work with WiFi power saving turned off :)))
May 07 18:13:11 <RST38h> johnx: They spun off their dev tools as CodeGear subsidiary a while ago
May 07 18:13:14 <lcuk> i just whisper my wifi around
May 07 18:13:19 <lcuk> no point in shouting
May 07 18:13:36 <Navi> Some routers are deaf
May 07 18:13:39 * johnx forgot how awesome rotation was
May 07 18:13:40 <RST38h> johnx: And just sold it to some seocnd tier db maker for $20m+
May 07 18:13:43 <Navi> whispering is not enough
May 07 18:13:46 <lcuk> get then a hearing aid
May 07 18:13:46 <Navi> johnx, indeed it is
May 07 18:13:55 <lcuk> pringles can  or wok
May 07 18:14:18 <KotCzarny> wifi whisperer?
May 07 18:14:21 <KotCzarny> o.O
May 07 18:14:27 <Navi> Heh, I was going to retort with who the hell carries a wok
May 07 18:14:34 <Navi> But I have >_>
May 07 18:15:10 <johnx> mmm...stirfry
May 07 18:15:35 <lcuk> would you like tcp with that?
May 07 18:15:59 <KotCzarny> banana/ip
May 07 18:16:07 <johnx> heh..."you down with tcp? yeah you know me!"
May 07 18:16:17 <Navi> >_>
May 07 18:16:50 <lcuk> i tried banana/ip but the SLIP was too great
May 07 18:17:21 <KotCzarny> too much friction on the packets and you overheat your router
May 07 18:17:32 <zap> Another newbie question: are there curl/wget/lftp and other great cmdline tools for OS 2008?
May 07 18:17:41 <KotCzarny> zap: yes
May 07 18:17:47 <zap> what repository?
May 07 18:17:48 <lcuk> offs, internet dying, must be a monkey around
May 07 18:17:52 <johnx> zap, gronmayer.com/it
May 07 18:17:56 <zap> thank you
May 07 18:18:10 <johnx> lcuk, netcraft confirms, the internet is dying?
May 07 18:18:10 <Navi> lcuk, bai
May 07 18:18:24 * lcuk puts 50p into virgins slot
May 07 18:18:47 * KotCzarny eats another banana and smiles innocently
May 07 18:19:38 <lcuk> ahhh well, irc appears to work, but there must be something big inside virgin
May 07 18:19:43 <lcuk> internet tubes are blocked
May 07 18:20:02 <RST38h> that must be a turd you are talking about.
May 07 18:20:14 <KotCzarny> do a mallox
May 07 18:21:08 <lcuk> i dunno why but its all dead :'(
May 07 18:21:37 * lcuk mourns internet
May 07 18:21:43 <lcuk> johnx i tried to check netcraft but they have died as well
May 07 18:22:31 <johnx> lcuk, DNS issues? routing issues?
May 07 18:22:40 <lcuk> nahhh, girlfriend trouble
May 07 18:22:45 <KotCzarny> O.o
May 07 18:22:46 <lcuk> the missus started some torrents
May 07 18:23:02 <johnx> ah, QoS is your answer :)
May 07 18:23:04 <KotCzarny> do some throttling?
May 07 18:23:05 <lcuk> i stopped then and am rebooting the router - it dies occasionally
May 07 18:23:26 <KotCzarny> install openwrt?
May 07 18:23:27 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 18:23:31 <johnx> yeah, crappy routers tend to cope poorly with thousands of open NAT connections
May 07 18:23:45 <lcuk> i do, but i think the little thing gets its knickers in a twist
May 07 18:24:03 <lcuk> its strange how irc continued tho
May 07 18:24:17 <Stskeeps> irc can keep up during coups of state and iraq wars
May 07 18:24:18 <Stskeeps> :P
May 07 18:24:20 <johnx> it already had a spot in the tablet allocated
May 07 18:24:32 <johnx> s/tablet/table/g
May 07 18:24:33 <infobot> johnx meant: it already had a spot in the table allocated
May 07 18:24:50 <johnx> my brains auto-complete needs to get wiped O_o
May 07 18:24:50 <lcuk> ahh well its come right back
May 07 18:25:02 <lcuk> no need to even reboot , curious
May 07 18:25:47 <vitorbaptista> Hi, I am doing something wrong or it's really hard to take the n800's battery out?
May 07 18:26:00 <johnx> it's difficult
May 07 18:26:04 <Navi> At first, it's hard
May 07 18:26:09 <johnx> either hold it upside town and smack it gently
May 07 18:26:27 <johnx> or pry from the end without the contacts with a credit card
May 07 18:26:28 <lcuk> on 810 it falls out
May 07 18:26:29 <Navi> It gets easier after doing it a few times
May 07 18:26:47 <vitorbaptista> hum
May 07 18:26:51 <vitorbaptista> let me try the credit card...
May 07 18:27:01 <vitorbaptista> my nails aren't hard enough
May 07 18:27:02 <Navi> It's safe to smack it :P
May 07 18:27:09 <johnx> ...and more fun
May 07 18:27:14 <X-Fade> I always tap it on the front..
May 07 18:27:22 <vitorbaptista> it went easily with the CC :P
May 07 18:27:28 <vitorbaptista> thanks
May 07 18:27:34 <vitorbaptista> uh
May 07 18:27:44 <vitorbaptista> btw
May 07 18:27:48 <lcuk> vitorbaptista, you are right, and as a result of swiping it near your camera the number is now uploaded
May 07 18:27:59 <vitorbaptista> There's no identification number
May 07 18:28:13 <lcuk> under the battery, not just under the cover
May 07 18:28:13 <Navi> really?
May 07 18:28:16 <vitorbaptista> lcuk: lol
May 07 18:28:20 <johnx> it's next to the SD card slot
May 07 18:28:26 <Navi> It's on a sticker next to the ^
May 07 18:28:28 <johnx> not under the battery
May 07 18:28:35 <vitorbaptista> Navi: Yes... it's only "Void if removed"
May 07 18:28:37 <vitorbaptista> hum
May 07 18:28:43 <Navi> WLAN:
May 07 18:28:43 <vitorbaptista> duh
May 07 18:28:47 <johnx> :D
May 07 18:28:49 <vitorbaptista> yea, it's near the SD card
May 07 18:28:57 <lcuk> i hate stickers that say "VO              OVED"
May 07 18:28:58 <vitorbaptista> about 20min lost trying to take the battery off
May 07 18:28:59 <vitorbaptista> lol
May 07 18:29:00 <KotCzarny> wlan: void if removed
May 07 18:29:03 <Navi> lol
May 07 18:29:14 <johnx> I just arping my tablet when I need to know :)
May 07 18:30:06 <KotCzarny> vitorbaptista: try pulling other end?
May 07 18:30:08 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 18:30:25 <vitorbaptista> Can I go from the oldest OS 2007 to the newer OS 2008? Or I have to go step by step?
May 07 18:30:44 <johnx> all reflashes are complete replacements
May 07 18:30:50 <johnx> just go to the latest
May 07 18:30:57 <KotCzarny> complete reflash
May 07 18:31:01 <vitorbaptista> great, downloading
May 07 18:31:02 <johnx> you've backed up everything you want to keep, right?
May 07 18:31:23 <vitorbaptista> johnx: Sure... that is... uhm...
May 07 18:31:24 <vitorbaptista> nothing
May 07 18:31:25 <vitorbaptista> :P
May 07 18:31:30 <vitorbaptista> Just bought it yesterday
May 07 18:31:32 <n800n> is there anything else other than quiver?
May 07 18:31:33 <johnx> just making sure :)
May 07 18:31:40 <vitorbaptista> thanks :P
May 07 18:31:43 <johnx> n800n, mirage and mediabox
May 07 18:32:03 <n800n> i think mediabox indexes beforehand too, i'll try mirage
May 07 18:32:41 <KotCzarny> and of course canola
May 07 18:32:42 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 18:32:43 <vitorbaptista> Isn't there a good emulator for mega drive games to maemo?
May 07 18:32:51 <n800n> the builtin viewer is pretty good to
May 07 18:32:52 <vitorbaptista> no one ported yet?
May 07 18:33:08 <n800n> canola is the slowest so far, also the prettiest
May 07 18:37:31 <a_l_e> i'm trying ukmp... it's indexing :-(
May 07 18:44:41 <MajMin7> hey, I'm trying to figure out how to get an application to run on my N810 target device
May 07 18:44:47 <MajMin7> it works in scratchbox
May 07 18:45:16 <MajMin7> I have compiled it for ARM
May 07 18:45:41 <MajMin7> but I can't figure out how to "install from file" in application manager
May 07 18:45:45 <MajMin7> I cant find the file!
May 07 18:46:01 <MajMin7> can anyone point me in the right direction?
May 07 18:46:10 <KotCzarny> make a .deb
May 07 18:46:45 <MajMin7> ahh
May 07 18:46:50 <MajMin7> i was afraid that was the answer
May 07 18:46:57 <johnx> if it's just a binary copy it over directly and run it in place
May 07 18:47:03 <lcuk> or if its testing just copy over and setup the required structure yourself
May 07 18:47:04 <KotCzarny> or just copy files to /usr/local
May 07 18:47:06 <johnx> no need to install it just to test it
May 07 18:47:14 <MajMin7> well
May 07 18:47:20 <MajMin7> i copied it over and then ran it from the terminal
May 07 18:47:26 <MajMin7> and it just spit out random ascii text
May 07 18:47:30 <MajMin7> didnt run
May 07 18:47:53 <lcuk> if you first built it for x86 make sure you make clean then rebuild it
May 07 18:48:47 <MajMin7> ohhhhhh
May 07 18:49:28 <lcuk> i fell into that trap exactly once, from that day forewards i have never compiled anything in scratchbox for x86
May 07 18:49:39 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 18:49:42 <MajMin7> lol
May 07 18:49:45 <MajMin7> let me see if that does it
May 07 18:49:57 * KotCzarny didn't compile for x86 in sbox even once
May 07 18:50:32 * lcuk was young and following instructions
May 07 18:51:09 <lcuk> (well not so young, but still not a duffer)
May 07 18:51:19 <zap> What filesystem is the best to use on internal 2Gb card? I hate FAT and I don't use windos anyways
May 07 18:51:51 <lcuk> you should have your own impression of what you prefer then
May 07 18:52:01 <Navi> I built a WM once in x86 to test it out
May 07 18:52:01 <johnx> zap, ext2 or ext3 is fine
May 07 18:52:03 <zap> yep, but there are no fs tools on nokia :)
May 07 18:52:10 <zap> can't find mkfs.ext2
May 07 18:52:18 <johnx> it isn't installed by default
May 07 18:52:25 <zap> what package is it?
May 07 18:52:31 <zap> apt-cache search doesn't want to tell me
May 07 18:52:34 <johnx> like ext2fsprogs or something
May 07 18:52:37 <zap> aha
May 07 18:52:57 <johnx> gronmayer.com/it has your answers once again :)
May 07 18:53:02 <zap> :))
May 07 18:53:12 <zap> its soooo big, much too big to grok in one evening
May 07 18:53:30 <johnx> definitely
May 07 18:53:34 * lcuk has being trying to understand his tiny device for almost 6 months now
May 07 18:53:49 <KotCzarny> 6 months?
May 07 18:53:51 <KotCzarny> O.o
May 07 18:53:58 <lcuk> yer, got it 21dec
May 07 18:54:02 <KotCzarny> you have it longer than me
May 07 18:54:03 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 18:54:06 <johnx> good resources: downloads.maemo.org , internettablettalk.com/forums , gronmayer.com/it
May 07 18:54:19 <zap> I can laugh in the face of the guys that will tell me that there's no software for n810 now
May 07 18:54:19 <KotCzarny> johnx: also maemo.org and google.com
May 07 18:54:20 <lcuk> yer but you had linux experience before
May 07 18:54:47 <lcuk> my next device wont take me so long to grapple :)
May 07 18:54:53 <KotCzarny> and you had windows experience
May 07 18:54:54 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 18:55:01 <lcuk> lol @ lag factor
May 07 18:56:05 <vitorbaptista> For flashing to the new OS 2008 I just need to copy the .bin to the SD Card in my n800 and execute it, right?
May 07 18:56:07 <lcuk> :) i have a lot of catching up to do code wise, im starting to see things forming as they are meant to
May 07 18:56:21 <johnx> vitorbaptista, nope: google "flashing maemo from linux"
May 07 18:56:29 <lcuk> vitorbaptista, no, there is a linux or windows based flashing tool
May 07 18:56:47 <vitorbaptista> ty
May 07 18:56:47 <lsobral> n800n, where are you noticing the slowdown in loading pictures in canola? Is it in the thumb screen while generating thumbs?
May 07 18:56:49 <vitorbaptista> Looking for it
May 07 18:57:10 <johnx> aahaha! tap+hold right click in xfce4 works
May 07 18:57:10 <n800n> updating the media library takes forever
May 07 18:57:12 <johnx> :D
May 07 18:57:58 <lsobral> n800n, that is related to scanning your media library through light media scanner, which canola uses
May 07 18:58:04 <MajMin7> HA!
May 07 18:58:06 <MajMin7> got it
May 07 18:58:08 <MajMin7> thats perfect
May 07 18:58:17 <MajMin7> I dont care about making a .deb
May 07 18:58:52 <MajMin7> it took me 2.5 days to build the environment, compile hello world, and execute it on the target
May 07 18:59:00 <MajMin7> 12 hour days, too!
May 07 18:59:03 <Navi> >_>
May 07 18:59:07 <MajMin7> ridiculous
May 07 18:59:19 <johnx> well, you're up to speed now. It's all easier from here
May 07 18:59:29 <lsobral> n800n, but lightmediascanner is pretty fast in the average case, this may be a bug scanning some files in your library that may be slowing the whole process down
May 07 18:59:50 <KotCzarny> lsobral: maybe 3000x2000 files? :)
May 07 18:59:52 <lcuk> MajMin7, :) it gets easier from here on in
May 07 18:59:57 <n800n> these are a lot of files though
May 07 19:00:00 <n800n> a few thousand
May 07 19:00:02 <MajMin7> so i have another question:  is there somewhere that I can find example code for using the GPS?  I haven't been able to find that yet
May 07 19:00:18 <MajMin7> is that available in a repository?
May 07 19:00:25 <n800n> all in all they'll be about 25,000 jpeg+gif
May 07 19:00:30 <lcuk> MajMin7, wait there
May 07 19:00:40 <flo_lap> re
May 07 19:00:46 <lcuk> hi flo
May 07 19:00:46 <lsobral> yeah, that is lots of images :)
May 07 19:01:18 <n800n> yup
May 07 19:03:03 <lcuk> MajMin7, still waiting?
May 07 19:03:07 <MajMin7> ?
May 07 19:03:57 <lcuk> MajMin7, am just trying to get a lock on the gps code
May 07 19:04:03 <MajMin7> oh
May 07 19:04:07 <MajMin7> im in no hurry
May 07 19:04:15 <lcuk> good job really with 810 gps
May 07 19:05:06 <MajMin7> ?
May 07 19:05:19 <MajMin7> its a decent gps?
May 07 19:05:26 <MajMin7> or the interface?
May 07 19:05:57 <lcuk> its a bit slow getting up to speed
May 07 19:06:03 <lcuk> once its locked its ok
May 07 19:06:09 <lcuk> try http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowToUseGPSFrameworkInOS2007/   and from there https://garage.maemo.org/projects/gps-saver/ and probably loads more :)
May 07 19:08:17 <vitorbaptista> wow
May 07 19:08:22 <vitorbaptista> OS 2008 looks so better
May 07 19:08:28 <n800n> i just talked to a guy who lost his laptop and he's working off his iphone
May 07 19:08:32 <n800n> iphone pfffffft
May 07 19:08:47 <n800n> i didn't say that cause he just hired me for a gig but that's what i was thinking
May 07 19:09:22 <kulve> MajMin7: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/maemo_connectivity_guide.html#Location
May 07 19:09:22 <KotCzarny> it doesn't matter as long he gets his job done, right?
May 07 19:09:40 <n800n> yeah
May 07 19:09:51 <n800n> he's a producer so i'm assuming it was a mac
May 07 19:09:55 <n800n> double pffft.
May 07 19:10:14 <n800n> well half a pfft since i'm on one now
May 07 19:10:20 <KotCzarny> hehe
May 07 19:10:21 <n800n> but at least i'm running windows on it
May 07 19:10:23 <johnx> heh...macs are fine
May 07 19:10:24 <n800n> so i'm 1337
May 07 19:10:34 <KotCzarny> win on mac is a 1298749071501xPFT
May 07 19:10:40 <vitorbaptista> 1337 for running windows? :P
May 07 19:10:41 <johnx> it's just bsd with a candy-coated GUI
May 07 19:10:42 <vitorbaptista> lol
May 07 19:10:55 <n800n> not just windows
May 07 19:10:58 <n800n> windows on a mac
May 07 19:10:58 <Navi> OS X is fine
May 07 19:11:03 <KotCzarny> osx sucks
May 07 19:11:06 <Navi> It's Apple I have a problem with
May 07 19:11:10 <n800n> same
May 07 19:11:10 <KotCzarny> osux
May 07 19:11:13 <lcuk> n800n, not just windows? you mean windows vista?
May 07 19:11:18 <vitorbaptista> n800n: even worse :P
May 07 19:11:20 <n800n> no, xp
May 07 19:11:26 <n800n> whatever man.
May 07 19:11:34 <n800n> i think it's pretty sweet
May 07 19:12:01 <lcuk> wasnt there something recently that said the fastest windows hardware was apple?
May 07 19:12:06 <n800n> yeah
May 07 19:12:20 <n800n> i do media production so i can't switch to linux cause of that
May 07 19:12:27 <n800n> i woud if i could
May 07 19:12:33 <lcuk> keep with what works :)
May 07 19:12:47 <vitorbaptista> n800n: Tell that to Dreamworks :X
May 07 19:12:53 <KotCzarny> but don't advertise it as better
May 07 19:12:54 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 19:13:02 <n800n> dreamworks?
May 07 19:13:14 <n800n> they probably use inux boxes for rendering
May 07 19:13:24 <vitorbaptista> nope
May 07 19:13:26 <n800n> which is more like a workhorse thing, not a creative thing
May 07 19:13:31 <vitorbaptista> not only... :P
May 07 19:13:47 <vitorbaptista> shrek 3, etc, were all in linux...
May 07 19:13:52 <vitorbaptista> from creation to rendering
May 07 19:14:11 <lcuk> you gotta admit thou, shrek isnt made to look pretty :P
May 07 19:14:14 <n800n> what about video editing
May 07 19:14:31 <vitorbaptista> n800n: http://www.cnet.com/8301-13505_1-9865829-16.html
May 07 19:15:07 <vitorbaptista> n800n: I am a programmer, so I can't tell much about this...
May 07 19:15:23 <vitorbaptista> but
May 07 19:15:29 <MajMin7> kluve: just got back
May 07 19:15:34 <MajMin7> saw the link
May 07 19:15:55 <n800n> i think in theory there are plenty of video apps on linux but they're not very intuitive
May 07 19:15:55 <vitorbaptista> if an enterprise as big as dreamworks use it, they must have a reason...
May 07 19:16:35 <lcuk> that is not due to linux, that is simply due to the right developers havent seen a need to switch yet
May 07 19:16:47 <a_l_e> mmmh... ukmp is nice to look at, but, well... not really what i was looking for.
May 07 19:17:10 <johnx> I think dreamworks uses a lot of inhouse stuff.
May 07 19:17:20 <n800n> well the standard for the video editing gui was set by avid, which are the biggest assholes in the closed software market
May 07 19:17:25 <jldiaz> a_l_e: canola?
May 07 19:17:32 <n800n> but the thing is it's a pretty good standard
May 07 19:17:42 <jldiaz> what are you looking for?
May 07 19:18:04 <johnx> a_l_e, youamp maybe?
May 07 19:18:05 <a_l_e> jldiaz: either... that's a full blown media player.
May 07 19:18:12 <KotCzarny> xmms?
May 07 19:18:13 <KotCzarny> :>
May 07 19:18:22 <n800n> i'll rant some other time
May 07 19:18:24 <jldiaz> mplayer?
May 07 19:18:32 <KotCzarny> playfilelist?
May 07 19:18:41 <KotCzarny> (ncurses frontend to mplayer)
May 07 19:18:54 <a_l_e> jldiaz: i'm just looking for a program with which i can browse some folders, it may show me the id tags of the current folder and i can play ogg and mp3.
May 07 19:19:06 <KotCzarny> a_l_e: xmms
May 07 19:19:20 <a_l_e> ... if possible, not a program which automatically browses all my sd cards!
May 07 19:19:24 <a_l_e> mmmh... xmms...
May 07 19:19:29 <jldiaz> heh
May 07 19:19:53 <a_l_e> it was not in the repositories i've already loaded...
May 07 19:20:19 <KotCzarny> a_l_e: just get a .deb and install it
May 07 19:20:21 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 19:20:37 <jldiaz> if you dont dare using command-line for "browsing", mplayer could be a choice
May 07 19:22:11 <a_l_e> i like the command line... but not really on the it
May 07 19:22:14 <lcuk> well since everything has some kind of emulator or run env.  can i get windows explorer?
May 07 19:22:25 <johnx> what should I take screenshots of in debian for the n800?
May 07 19:22:36 <Navi> desktop
May 07 19:22:42 <Navi> control panel
May 07 19:22:45 <Jon> johnx: import -window root screenshot.png (import in package imagemagick)
May 07 19:23:06 <Jon> a_l_e: it's not ideal w/o a real keyboard
May 07 19:23:11 <KotCzarny> jon: he asked what people would like to see
May 07 19:23:15 <Navi> Uh... I don't know what else
May 07 19:23:16 <johnx> I just use xwd :)
May 07 19:23:18 <Jon> ah
May 07 19:23:41 <KotCzarny> johnx: do a idle battery-rundown test
May 07 19:23:43 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 19:23:55 <Jon> yes, that would be very useful
May 07 19:23:59 <KotCzarny> i can provide you with a script (assuming you have a /dev/retu)
May 07 19:23:59 <johnx> KotCzarny, I wouldn't dream of stealing that honor from you :)
May 07 19:24:03 <a_l_e> the program i've found and somehow does what i need, is snackamp... but there seem to be no port for maemo (and on my normal computer it's all about ogg123 and mpg123 :-)
May 07 19:24:38 <Jon> I think I've pretty much decided that to get the n800 perfect to my needs I need to start from debian and not it2008
May 07 19:25:33 <johnx> ah, and I promised someone a shot of evolution
May 07 19:25:39 <Navi> yeah
May 07 19:25:43 <KotCzarny> 'shot of evolution'
May 07 19:25:47 <KotCzarny> that's harsh
May 07 19:26:06 <johnx> heh
May 07 19:27:24 <johnx> jeez, getting a ton of earthquakes here tonight O_o
May 07 19:27:32 <Navi> mmm
May 07 19:27:40 <KotCzarny> where is here?
May 07 19:27:40 <Navi> the world is coming to an end
May 07 19:27:43 <Navi> Japan
May 07 19:27:44 <lcuk> define here
May 07 19:27:47 <lcuk> ahh
May 07 19:27:52 <johnx> Yokohama, Japan
May 07 19:27:55 <lcuk> godzilla attack?
May 07 19:27:58 <johnx> check out the map: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Maps/10/140_35.php
May 07 19:27:59 <Navi> Lmfao
May 07 19:28:12 <johnx> I swear he's surfacing off the coast or something O_o
May 07 19:28:33 <KotCzarny> it's 'he' ?
May 07 19:28:40 <KotCzarny> i always thought it's a 'she'
May 07 19:28:41 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 19:28:44 <lcuk> theres a fat kid in america doing exersizes
May 07 19:29:28 <johnx> heh...yeah well he fell into the pacific then, and he's jumping up and down 90km off the coast
May 07 19:30:14 <n800n> nessie?
May 07 19:30:20 <KotCzarny> wrong continent
May 07 19:30:21 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 19:30:37 <KotCzarny> (and culture myths)
May 07 19:30:51 <vitorbaptista> see y'all
May 07 19:30:51 <n800n> http://raincoaster.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/nessie.jpg
May 07 19:31:33 <zap> hahaha, I moved /home to mmc2 and after reboot I've got the default gtk look of all widgets, and the mouse cursor visible :)
May 07 19:32:11 <KotCzarny> n800n: shopped
May 07 19:32:21 <lcdd> zap: did you forget dotfiles?
May 07 19:32:42 <n800n> haha no!
May 07 19:32:46 <zap> nope
May 07 19:32:57 <zap> but it seems that mmc2 is mounted after maemo gets started
May 07 19:33:14 <johnx> sounds likely
May 07 19:33:25 <jott> KotCzarny: it's "gimped" not "shopped" in here! :p
May 07 19:34:00 <KotCzarny>   |> Beetlejuice Theme
May 07 19:34:06 <zap> hmm, /etc/fstab contains an entry for my external SD card, but no entry for the build-in SD
May 07 19:34:15 <KotCzarny> zap: fstab is ignored anyway
May 07 19:34:26 <KotCzarny> by nokia's scripts
May 07 19:34:30 <zap> aha
May 07 19:34:30 <pupnik> nice n800n
May 07 19:34:36 <zap> why they write to fstab then?
May 07 19:34:42 <KotCzarny> who knows
May 07 19:34:50 <zap> legacy stuff it seems :)
May 07 19:35:20 <jott> we all know it's not LSB but it's NSB the nokia standard base
May 07 19:35:33 <zap> :))
May 07 19:35:59 <KotCzarny> offtopic, anyone used usb sound card in linux ?
May 07 19:36:02 <zap> well at least they converged with gtk
May 07 19:36:09 <jott> KotCzarny: yes i've one on my router :)
May 07 19:36:23 <jott> works like a charm
May 07 19:36:30 <KotCzarny> jott: have you experienced lags when switching songs etc. ?
May 07 19:36:43 <KotCzarny> looking like big buffers etc.
May 07 19:36:54 <jott> hm not really, using mpd via oss
May 07 19:37:02 <KotCzarny> hmm
May 07 19:37:22 <KotCzarny> i'm using mplayer, and while seeking is ok, switching songs takes ~4-6s
May 07 19:37:26 <n800n> man quiver is almost perfect. are there any devs here working on it?
May 07 19:37:47 <jott> i use this - http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5831 really great for the price
May 07 19:38:25 <KotCzarny> jott: hmm, interesting, it works with linux without problems?
May 07 19:38:47 <jott> KotCzarny: yes openwrt out of the box (after ipkg install bla)
May 07 19:38:53 <KotCzarny> humm
May 07 19:39:07 <KotCzarny> what are usb vid:pid of this?
May 07 19:39:22 <jott> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.624 oh actually it's this one..
May 07 19:39:29 <jott> don't know if they differ
May 07 19:39:42 <jott> mom checking ids
May 07 19:39:51 <jott> Bus 003 Device 002: ID 0c76:1605 JMTek, LLC.
May 07 19:39:55 <KotCzarny> thx
May 07 19:40:11 <KotCzarny> Your search - 0c76:1605 - did not match any documents.
May 07 19:40:12 <KotCzarny> hehe
May 07 19:40:17 <zap> Hmm, how do I manage to get /home on mmc2, but have it visible through USB...
May 07 19:40:30 <jott> oO should be atleast at linux-usb.org id list ;)
May 07 19:40:33 <KotCzarny> zap: not going to happen
May 07 19:40:38 <zap> why?
May 07 19:40:42 <KotCzarny> zap: just use sshfs
May 07 19:40:58 <KotCzarny> jott: yeah
May 07 19:41:06 <zap> I would like to have my home on a persistent storage
May 07 19:41:10 <KotCzarny> jott: send a report for devs? :)
May 07 19:41:12 <zap> to avoid losing it on reflashes
May 07 19:41:24 <KotCzarny> zap: clone os to mmc
May 07 19:41:28 <jott> KotCzarny: works fine and is detected fine so ... :)
May 07 19:41:41 <KotCzarny> jott: yeah, but thx for info it works with linux
May 07 19:41:49 <zap> the whole OS?
May 07 19:41:52 <KotCzarny> i was reluctant because i haven't seen any reports
May 07 19:41:58 <KotCzarny> zap: yeah, that's what i have
May 07 19:42:02 <DaniloCesar> andrunko, Do you have an address for your .git instead of gitweb? (about QT Keyboard for maemo )
May 07 19:42:07 <zap> how do you make it start from there?
May 07 19:42:21 <KotCzarny> zap: fanoush initfs
May 07 19:42:28 <zap> got the idea
May 07 19:42:37 <zap> although I don't know who's fanoush
May 07 19:42:43 <KotCzarny> some hacker
May 07 19:42:46 <KotCzarny> but it works
May 07 19:42:46 <zap> so kernel & initrd still starts from ROM
May 07 19:43:07 <zap> well thats a bit more than I wanted :)
May 07 19:43:18 <zap> I'll try to mount mmc2 early in rcS
May 07 19:43:30 <KotCzarny> zap: you are asking for troubles
May 07 19:43:31 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 19:43:35 <zap> sure :)
May 07 19:43:44 <zap> thats why I bought Nokia for
May 07 19:43:55 <KotCzarny>   |> NTranceFeatRodStewart - DaYaThinkImSexy (ViperTransObjekt)
May 07 19:44:30 <Khertan_on_n810> Hi
May 07 19:44:42 <Navi> hi
May 07 19:45:41 <KotCzarny> jott: is it duplex device?
May 07 19:46:07 <DaniloCesar> andrunko, I'd founded... thanks
May 07 19:46:44 <Khertan_on_n810> i'm trying to select event in a sql database, how can i include reccuring event ? does doing it in sqlite or doing it in the code (python) ? what is the more efficient ways ?
May 07 19:47:09 <jott> KotCzarny: never tested if it does full duplex but it has a mic imput. i just use it to have music in the kitchen (controlled via n810 yay! :)
May 07 19:47:23 <zap> by the way, how to access the serial port on Nokia?
May 07 19:47:43 <KotCzarny> jott: heh, it could be a great way for a speakerphone in the kitchen
May 07 19:47:44 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 19:47:52 <Khertan_on_n810> there is no serial rs232 port
May 07 19:48:03 <zap> sad, such a handy thing :)
May 07 19:48:19 <johnx> usb -> rs232
May 07 19:48:47 <zap> a real rs232 is better :)
May 07 19:49:01 <KotCzarny> bt -- rs232 ?
May 07 19:49:02 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 19:49:10 <zap> even worse :)
May 07 19:49:13 <jott> KotCzarny: heh yeah maybe. could even be used for voip :).. well just order it - it costs basically nothing :)
May 07 19:49:22 <zap> a real rs232 is available immediately after kernel startup
May 07 19:49:28 <KotCzarny> jott: yeah, i like free shipping option :)
May 07 19:49:30 <zap> bt and usb needs tricky setup first
May 07 19:50:28 <zap> /dev/ttyS0 is working
May 07 19:50:36 <zap> so actually there *is* a rs232
May 07 19:50:50 <zap> umm, maybe that's bluetooth
May 07 19:53:05 <Khertan_on_n810> arg no To_days() function in sqlite
May 07 19:53:10 <jott> zap: under the battery are pins from which two *should* be tx/rx but i don't know if their assignment is known
May 07 19:53:34 <zap> jott: interesting
May 07 19:53:53 <jott> (know to the comunity that is :)
May 07 19:53:56 <jott> known
May 07 19:54:04 * jott smacks keyboard
May 07 19:54:34 <n800n> at least you have a keyboard.
May 07 19:54:46 <jott> hehe not much longer ;)
May 07 19:54:50 <n800n> if i throw the stylus i'm screwed
May 07 19:55:04 <jott> you can always use your nose :)
May 07 19:55:23 <n800n> i do have a weird nose but i'm no michael jackson
May 07 19:55:27 <KotCzarny> or nails
May 07 19:55:31 <zap> aha, mounting is handled by HAL
May 07 19:55:57 <n800n> n800 wishlist: bogger screen so my nose can do better callibration
May 07 19:56:01 <n800n> bogger.
May 07 19:56:04 <n800n> :/
May 07 19:56:16 <n800n> time to stop typing
May 07 19:56:17 <n800n> laters
May 07 19:56:59 <zap> bah, /etc/init.d/ttyusb0 starts a serial console on an RS232-to-USB cable, if found
May 07 19:57:03 <AStorm> hmm, hsd OMWeather recently ceased to work for you?
May 07 19:57:15 <AStorm> s/hsd/has/
May 07 19:57:15 <infobot> AStorm meant: hmm, has OMWeather recently ceased to work for you?
May 07 19:57:21 <jott> zap: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/Flasher_tool_usage/ there are some infos about the 770 serial port
May 07 19:57:50 <Capn_Fish> johnx: Still here?
May 07 19:57:58 <johnx> yeah
May 07 19:58:02 <Capn_Fish> cool
May 07 19:58:02 <johnx> got right click working
May 07 19:58:06 <johnx> much easier than I thought
May 07 19:58:10 <zap> cool
May 07 19:58:10 <Capn_Fish> Great!
May 07 19:58:15 <zap> it's 3.3V but neverless...
May 07 19:58:17 <Capn_Fish> Using gtkmousethingy?
May 07 19:58:22 <johnx> yeah
May 07 19:58:25 <johnx> so only for gtk apps
May 07 19:58:36 <Capn_Fish> ;(
May 07 19:58:37 <johnx> but if people want to install something else they can figure it out
May 07 19:58:47 <Capn_Fish> I see.
May 07 19:58:57 <Capn_Fish> I'll just have to finish my hacking, then :)
May 07 19:59:07 <johnx> yes. please, hack on this
May 07 19:59:26 <Capn_Fish> Will do, once I get it booting :)
May 07 19:59:26 <jott> zap:  yeah just get a max232 :)
May 07 19:59:50 <johnx> I'll probably clean it up and release it tomorrow or the next day
May 07 20:00:00 <Capn_Fish> I'll be waiting
May 07 20:00:01 <johnx> screen rotation works great, too :)
May 07 20:00:27 <Capn_Fish> I kind of consider that a party favor, like KDE: not so useful, but cool nonetheless
May 07 20:00:49 <Capn_Fish> Not to demean your work, of course
May 07 20:00:50 <johnx> it was one of those convenience things. I was there and it took like 5 minutes to repackage
May 07 20:01:00 <Capn_Fish> Ya. I know the feeling.
May 07 20:01:02 <johnx> nah, not my work at all, just a quick repackage job
May 07 20:01:23 <johnx> in fact, this is really *all* a collection of other people's work
May 07 20:01:37 <Capn_Fish> So are many projects
May 07 20:01:48 <Capn_Fish> But it's still work, and much appreciated
May 07 20:02:20 <johnx> anyways, sound won't happen for this release, but maybe I'll try and get together some way to configure wireless graphically
May 07 20:02:21 <zap> how rc*.d directories are handled in OS 2008?
May 07 20:02:30 <johnx> zap, same as debian
May 07 20:02:41 <zap> unfortunately, I'm a RedHat fan :)
May 07 20:02:53 <zap> what commands?
May 07 20:03:05 <johnx> aaah, update-rc.d maybe?
May 07 20:03:08 <Capn_Fish> Not an issue for me. I don't use sound anyway, nor do I use a GUI for wireless config
May 07 20:03:08 <zap> aha
May 07 20:03:12 <zap> thank you :)
May 07 20:03:30 <johnx> Capn_Fish, Right, but lots of people do, including me :)
May 07 20:04:10 <Capn_Fish> Ya. It will make it more appealing to the masses. I'm just trying to show that I don't mind using (pre-)beta software as my main OS
May 07 20:04:51 <johnx> the big deal breaker is that display blanking will have to be CLI only and battery life will probably be reduced to <3 hours unless you actually turn it all the way off
May 07 20:05:11 <Capn_Fish> Just like a regular comp
May 07 20:05:28 <Capn_Fish> Why can't you blank the display in X?
May 07 20:05:42 <johnx> no DPMS support in this build of xomap
May 07 20:05:55 <johnx> and rebuilding it seems like a pain
May 07 20:05:55 <Capn_Fish> Is xomap a pain to rebuild?
May 07 20:06:01 <KotCzarny> nope
May 07 20:06:04 <Capn_Fish> Fair enough
May 07 20:06:15 <johnx> well ok, then
May 07 20:06:25 <johnx> that would be a great thing to do then :)
May 07 20:06:31 <Capn_Fish> Is it just a scratchbox build?
May 07 20:06:33 <johnx> there are DPMS patches hanging around somewhere too
May 07 20:06:35 <KotCzarny> yes
May 07 20:06:42 <Capn_Fish> I can do it if that's the case and have sources
May 07 20:08:33 <KotCzarny> capn: apt-get source xorg-server
May 07 20:08:44 <Capn_Fish> And if I don't use Debian...?
May 07 20:08:46 <johnx> this might provide DPMS support or set your tablet on fire: http://pastebin.com/m78b630da
May 07 20:08:57 <KotCzarny> capn: scratchbox's command
May 07 20:08:58 <johnx> Capn_Fish, scratchbox uses apt-get :)
May 07 20:09:05 <Capn_Fish> Gotcha
May 07 20:09:21 <Capn_Fish> I'll try it when Aleph One finishes building
May 07 20:09:52 <johnx> cool
May 07 20:09:57 <Capn_Fish> Is this Debian build going to have the Maemo interface, or will it be CLI?
May 07 20:10:06 <johnx> xfce, by popular request
May 07 20:10:17 <KotCzarny> johnx: add fluxbox as an option too?
May 07 20:10:29 <Capn_Fish> Nice, so I can just remove Xfce and build up from essentially the CLI?
May 07 20:10:29 <johnx> KotCzarny, if you want fluxbox, run apt-get install fluxbox
May 07 20:10:32 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 20:11:03 <Capn_Fish> More to the point, will it be like OS2008, in that if you kill X, it shuts down?
May 07 20:11:10 <johnx> definitely not
May 07 20:11:25 <Capn_Fish> Great! That's really irritating
May 07 20:11:26 <johnx> the only evidence of that god forsaken watchdog is that if you suspend it will die in 60 seconds
May 07 20:11:54 <johnx> you could use flasher to kill it for good and suspend all you want though :)
May 07 20:12:13 <RST38h> KILL KILL DESTROY
May 07 20:12:15 <Capn_Fish> What?
May 07 20:12:36 <johnx> something like flasher --disable-wd-reboot or somesuch
May 07 20:12:54 <Capn_Fish> What do you mean about the 60 seconds thing?
May 07 20:13:27 <johnx> it pings the device and certain apps every 30 seconds and if they don't respond in 60 it reboots
May 07 20:13:37 <Capn_Fish> Ahh, gotcha
May 07 20:13:40 <johnx> it's Nokia's idea to keep you from being stuck with a hung machine
May 07 20:13:42 <GeneralAntilles> Don't forget to bring a towel! http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/users/36692?nohighlight=1#36692
May 07 20:13:55 <KotCzarny> johnx: reset button would be nicer..
May 07 20:13:57 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 20:14:01 <lcuk> hi gen, not seen you floating around for a while
May 07 20:14:02 <Capn_Fish> That even effects Debian?
May 07 20:14:16 <johnx> Capn_Fish, yes
May 07 20:14:27 <Capn_Fish> Most unfortunate.
May 07 20:14:39 <Capn_Fish> I will have to look into that.
May 07 20:14:42 <johnx> for lack of a better method, the debian boot process is: kernel -> nokia initrd -> debian /sbin/init
May 07 20:14:58 <johnx> if you don't use the nokia initrd you lose battery charging :)
May 07 20:15:02 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, I'm at home
May 07 20:15:07 <Capn_Fish> That may be an issue.
May 07 20:15:11 <GeneralAntilles> IRC hasn't been a priority. ;)
May 07 20:15:21 <GeneralAntilles> Just got my old Quicksilver back up to speed anyway.
May 07 20:15:34 <johnx> you can run the battery daemon manually if you want
May 07 20:15:37 <lcuk> cool
May 07 20:15:57 <lcuk> have you given any more nokias away then this time
May 07 20:16:00 <n800n> <belve> i learned all my german from wolfenstein 3d
May 07 20:16:14 <Capn_Fish> You can't just add it to the boot process?
May 07 20:16:14 <n800n> misfire
May 07 20:16:42 <johnx> Capn_Fish, you could, but you have to muck around with chrooting into Nokia's initrd
May 07 20:17:00 <Capn_Fish> Nah, I'll just flash the reboot thing out.
May 07 20:17:09 <Capn_Fish> Chrooting is a pain
May 07 20:17:27 <johnx> so I'd have to use a modified kernel that booted directly to SD, chroot back into initrd, run bme in that env, and then continue
May 07 20:17:35 <GeneralAntilles> Nah, though I'm about to sell one of my 770s for cheap. ;)
May 07 20:18:10 <Capn_Fish> Not worth it. Flashing the reboot thing out is much simpler
May 07 20:18:43 <johnx> exactly, and I'd never get people to try debian if they had to flash a different kernel that wouldn't work with OS2008
May 07 20:19:25 <Capn_Fish> That's one of the major reasons so few people tried pdaXrom r1xx on the Zaurus, IMO. uBoot scared them off.
May 07 20:19:34 <johnx> uboot scared *me* away
May 07 20:19:41 <johnx> and with good reason
May 07 20:20:12 <Capn_Fish> Why? It's near impossible to brick a Z
May 07 20:20:22 <johnx> and yet people have done it with uboot
May 07 20:20:39 <johnx> maybe I just let the horror stories get to me
May 07 20:20:45 <johnx> it just seemed so unnecessary
May 07 20:20:53 <Capn_Fish> I haven't heard of a case of actual bricking
May 07 20:20:59 <Capn_Fish> It IS unnecessary
May 07 20:21:04 <johnx> ah, just people panicing?
May 07 20:21:17 <Capn_Fish> One of the devs foobared his bootloader, and moved to uBoot to compensate
May 07 20:21:26 <johnx> heh
May 07 20:21:29 <johnx> awesome
May 07 20:21:30 <Capn_Fish> Ya, people forget about the Fn+D+M menu stored in ROM
May 07 20:21:45 <Capn_Fish> You can restore your Z from there after doing ANYTHING software-wise
May 07 20:22:28 <KotCzarny> nokia doesn't have any easy way to restore broken bootloader
May 07 20:22:38 <Capn_Fish> I have a question for you, before I go too much further with my right-click scheme
May 07 20:22:46 <johnx> ok
May 07 20:22:55 <Capn_Fish> If an app is in fullscreen mode, will X still catch events?
May 07 20:23:07 <Capn_Fish> Or will the app get them first?
May 07 20:23:12 <johnx> X or the WM?
May 07 20:23:23 <Capn_Fish> uh...
May 07 20:23:27 <Capn_Fish> X, I guess
May 07 20:23:36 <KotCzarny> x hands events to an app
May 07 20:23:41 <johnx> well it has to has them, if I understand correctly
May 07 20:23:55 <johnx> *well X has to have
May 07 20:24:26 <Capn_Fish> So if I put the code in X, it should work, but if it's a separate daemon/in the WM, it most likely won't work for fullscreen apps.
May 07 20:24:37 <Capn_Fish> Yet another reason to rebuild X :)
May 07 20:24:57 <johnx> well you could have something that's fullscreen all the time
May 07 20:25:30 <Capn_Fish> I might as well add it to X, if I can figure out where
May 07 20:26:48 <Capn_Fish> Also know that I've never really used Xlib before, so it would be an adventure to figure out more than I have
May 07 20:27:05 <johnx> I'm not much of a programmer
May 07 20:27:13 <johnx> I just hack on stuff if I'm forced to
May 07 20:27:38 <Capn_Fish> I'm more the other way around, except not great at either
May 07 20:28:11 <johnx> anyways, any other simple stuff you think I should clean up before a release?
May 07 20:28:20 <Capn_Fish> Keymapping?
May 07 20:28:25 <johnx> as in?
May 07 20:28:38 <johnx> make a nice keymap for the N810 keyboard?
May 07 20:28:38 <Capn_Fish>  the / key requires Fn/shift
May 07 20:28:50 <Capn_Fish> I would, but I don't have Xev
May 07 20:28:54 <johnx> no N810 here :(
May 07 20:29:10 <Capn_Fish> Hmm. I'll see if I can find the keymap and edit it for you.
May 07 20:32:09 <Capn_Fish> Where did they put the keymap in OS2008?
May 07 20:32:59 <johnx> good question
May 07 20:33:00 <AStorm> whee, some dead update in extras-devel
May 07 20:33:14 <AStorm> new lms, but no new liblms, which is required
May 07 20:33:47 <KotCzarny> astorm: how's the battery project?
May 07 20:34:10 <AStorm> KotCzarny: got almost all needed stuff
May 07 20:34:17 <KotCzarny> good
May 07 20:34:22 <KotCzarny> any eta ?
May 07 20:34:25 <johnx> battery project?
May 07 20:34:39 <AStorm> no eta, depends on real life :P
May 07 20:34:46 <AStorm> but quite soon
May 07 20:35:08 <AStorm> probably on next holidays (that is, two weeks?)
May 07 20:35:21 <KotCzarny> good
May 07 20:35:54 <johnx> what is this battery project?
May 07 20:36:17 <KotCzarny> external battery pack for nokia
May 07 20:36:23 <johnx> ah, fun
May 07 20:36:29 <KotCzarny> using 2/3/4 AA
May 07 20:36:38 <lcuk> nokia + car battery == still lighter than a laptop ;)
May 07 20:36:40 <AStorm> right now 2
May 07 20:36:45 <KotCzarny>   |> Leva's Polka (Basshunter Remix - Loituma
May 07 20:36:48 <AStorm> lcuk: car?
May 07 20:36:52 <KotCzarny> lcuk: not true
May 07 20:37:02 <KotCzarny> my x32 weighs ~ 3lbs
May 07 20:37:03 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 20:38:15 <AStorm> we need more touchscreens!
May 07 20:38:34 <lcuk> real touch or stylus only?
May 07 20:38:37 <Capn_Fish> Bah, forgot to disable OpenGL in my Aleph One build! Now I need to start over...
May 07 20:38:41 <Capn_Fish> :(
May 07 20:38:52 <KotCzarny> real touch
May 07 20:38:54 <KotCzarny> of course
May 07 20:38:55 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 20:38:58 <lcuk> cos i think a big bad touch screen would be annoying havign to keep wrist off the surface
May 07 20:40:38 <Capn_Fish> Back in a bit
May 07 20:40:40 <AStorm> lcuk: that's why we need multitouch
May 07 20:40:43 <AStorm> and good sw
May 07 20:40:57 <johnx> Capn_Fish, I'm probably heading to bed soon
May 07 20:41:03 <johnx> good to talk to you :)
May 07 20:41:10 <Capn_Fish> catch you later
May 07 20:41:26 <johnx> Look for an announcement on ITT in the next couple days
May 07 20:41:36 <Capn_Fish> Will do.
May 07 20:41:58 <Capn_Fish> I hope you'll do it in the same Debian thread?
May 07 20:43:21 <RST38h> Anybody has any idea how to pair gnome fs URLs sent by the file manager with fopen()?
May 07 20:43:50 <AStorm> check mime database :)
May 07 20:44:02 <RST38h> In other words, if I get something like bt:/blablabla/blabla, how do I tell Gnome to load it into a temporary file I can open with fopen()?
May 07 20:44:12 <RST38h> no, mime recognition is done at this point
May 07 20:44:26 <johnx> Capn_Fish, I'll probably start a new thread since it really is quite different
May 07 20:44:33 <RST38h> I am already getting this url via dbus and need to open it, but I only have fopen() in the code
May 07 20:44:38 <johnx> do you think I should use the same thread?
May 07 20:44:46 <Capn_Fish> fair enough. I'll actually have to look then :)
May 07 20:45:02 <lcuk> johnx, make a new one and post a followup at the end of the current thread for ppl watching
May 07 20:45:06 <Capn_Fish> Not really. I just didn't have to actually look at the forums as opposed to just using my bookmark
May 07 20:45:12 <AStorm> RST38h: hmm, there was a file only toggle in mime db
May 07 20:45:18 <AStorm> i think
May 07 20:45:25 <johnx> ah, good points luck and Capn_Fish
May 07 20:45:39 <RST38h> I can't toggle things - I am getting them from Nokia's File Manager =)
May 07 20:46:05 <RST38h> But there just SHOULD be some wrapper that downloads those URLs into tmp and returns temp file name?
May 07 20:46:26 <rm_you> johnx: announcement of what? :P
May 07 20:46:36 <johnx> rm_you, new debian sooooooooon
May 07 20:46:39 <rm_you> :P
May 07 20:46:52 <rm_you> significantly more useful than the last one? :P
May 07 20:46:57 <johnx> yes
May 07 20:47:04 <johnx> I'm just going to have it boot into xfce
May 07 20:47:10 <johnx> right click works and there's a decent browser
May 07 20:47:15 <rm_you> :P
May 07 20:47:24 <rm_you> how much work was that?
May 07 20:47:33 <rm_you> oh, any news on audio support? :P
May 07 20:47:52 <johnx> yup
May 07 20:47:56 <johnx> no audio support
May 07 20:48:00 <rm_you> <_<
May 07 20:48:00 <johnx> there's your news :P
May 07 20:48:15 <rm_you> maybe during summer i can ACTUALLY work on that
May 07 20:50:04 <rm_you> does it look entirely hopeless? or like it might be solvable?
May 07 20:50:09 <timely> rm_you: did you get your money working?
May 07 20:50:13 <rm_you> IE, are there any actual roadblocks?
May 07 20:50:14 <timely> s/money/menu/
May 07 20:50:15 <infobot> timely meant: rm_you: did you get your menu working?
May 07 20:50:23 <rm_you> timely: haven't had time yet :/
May 07 20:50:29 <rm_you> I have a final in 2 hours :P
May 07 20:50:45 <johnx> rm_you, it's definitely possible to hack sound into working I *think*
May 07 20:51:14 <rm_you> and I ran out of computer science classes last semester, which means i'm stuck with random "liberal arts" classes that I actually need to study for
May 07 20:51:24 <rm_you> johnx: sweet. I look forward to it :)
May 07 20:51:44 <johnx> I don't know how motivated I'll be to work on it though, TBH
May 07 20:52:03 <rm_you> s/to it/to working on it/
May 07 20:52:04 <infobot> rm_you meant: johnx: sweet. I look forward to working on it :)
May 07 20:52:15 <johnx> :D
May 07 20:52:20 <rm_you> XD
May 07 20:53:40 <elb> johnx: nice, "definitely ... I *think*" ;-)
May 07 20:53:52 <johnx> heh
May 07 20:54:13 <johnx> well I definitely think it's possible, that's all I'm saying :)
May 07 20:54:36 <rm_you> lol
May 07 20:58:21 <KotCzarny> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10813
May 07 20:58:22 <KotCzarny> lol
May 07 20:58:48 <lcuk> :D i phone gets wood.
May 07 20:59:12 <KotCzarny> looks.. fragile
May 07 20:59:17 <lcuk> perhaps it saw a nokia seductively sliding open to reveal its full keyboard
May 07 20:59:54 <Cptnodegard> stupid fishperson has been triggering my nickalert all day -.-
May 07 21:01:01 <AStorm> lcuk: a fun mod would be N810 with a wooden finish
May 07 21:01:13 <KotCzarny> he already has it
May 07 21:01:14 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 21:01:17 <AStorm> another I tthought of is waterproofing
May 07 21:01:21 <lcuk> http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=810cratelaptopmodetc6.jpg
May 07 21:01:53 <lcuk> waterproofing would be tough
May 07 21:01:58 <AStorm> naah
May 07 21:02:09 <KotCzarny> lcuk: plastic bag with a zipper?
May 07 21:02:10 <KotCzarny> :>
May 07 21:02:13 <AStorm> I was talking, a mod of N810
May 07 21:02:21 <lcuk> ok, waterproofing that doesnt involve putting 810 into a condom and tying a knot
May 07 21:02:21 <AStorm> not additional stand
May 07 21:02:27 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 07 21:02:32 <AStorm> lcuk: simple really
May 07 21:02:39 <AStorm> add some rubber
May 07 21:03:03 <NullM0dem> rubber
May 07 21:03:12 <AStorm> keys are already waterproof
May 07 21:03:13 <KotCzarny> and a vibration?
May 07 21:03:14 <lcuk> if 810 had a grippy rubberised surface to begin with i would never have made my crate
May 07 21:03:33 <AStorm> lcuk: no tools t mould one?
May 07 21:03:58 <NullM0dem> I have some material from an old JCpenny shoe bag... some sort of thick clear plastic, i can type and use the touch screen, the trick would be waterproofing the seems
May 07 21:04:12 <lcuk> not worth it - i wouldnt go back to a plain device now - the thing i use is much better cos its a wrist rest and biffer handles etc
May 07 21:04:29 <AStorm> and very pocketable...
May 07 21:04:30 <lcuk> bigger
May 07 21:04:31 <AStorm> :P
May 07 21:04:39 <lcuk> its not exactly locked in there
May 07 21:05:00 <lcuk> tough super kensington  rubber band
May 07 21:05:11 <AStorm> I'll replace the kickstand with a hard rubber variant
May 07 21:05:34 <lcuk> i wanted a wrist strap for mine
May 07 21:05:46 <lcuk> but theres no lanyard hole
May 07 21:05:54 <AStorm> blah, who cares
May 07 21:06:10 <AStorm> use the kickstand
May 07 21:06:20 <Oniano> hi
May 07 21:06:26 <lcuk> its not fat enough - i like your idea of a rubber version
May 07 21:06:38 <Oniano> I'm having some trouble compiling example_camera.c
May 07 21:06:54 <AStorm> lcuk: use it as a handguard
May 07 21:07:04 <AStorm> not a handle
May 07 21:07:13 <lcuk> i tried but it pressed against back of hand and was just plain uncomfy
May 07 21:07:33 <AStorm> because of sharp edges, I'll fix that
May 07 21:07:36 <lcuk> i ended up hanging a hand towel through it and holding the bunch
May 07 21:07:56 <lcuk> i missed having something to hold onto when i got this
May 07 21:12:35 <GNUton> hi
May 07 21:13:07 <AStorm> ηι
May 07 21:13:15 <AStorm> ;)
May 07 21:13:18 <KotCzarny> utfail
May 07 21:13:31 <lcuk> UT!
May 07 21:13:32 <AStorm> greek utf
May 07 21:13:43 * lcuk goes and blows things up
May 07 21:15:43 <Cptnodegard> that wood thing looks liek the one i made yesterday
May 07 21:16:02 <Cptnodegard> http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/IMG_1305.jpg
May 07 21:16:15 <KotCzarny> wow
May 07 21:16:49 <Cptnodegard> figured i might as well use the space that the screen stand uses for something sueful
May 07 21:17:18 <KotCzarny> i would have added disco lights too
May 07 21:17:30 <KotCzarny> and removed winxp
May 07 21:17:48 <Cptnodegard> i already got a home made jukebox for disco lights
May 07 21:18:14 <Cptnodegard> http://captain-odegard.com/worklogs/jukebox.html
May 07 21:18:14 <Cptnodegard> :p
May 07 21:23:40 <n800n> it's from the freakin future
May 07 21:26:24 <jott> i wonder how many weather apps broke the last days... http://www.google.com/codesearch?q=xoap.weather.com+prod=xoap (it does not work with prod=xoap anymore)
May 07 21:30:16 <jott> that's what you get for not using your private weather station
May 07 21:33:52 <KotCzarny> that's what you get for living in a basement
May 07 21:34:36 <NullM0dem> heh i live in a basement too
May 07 21:35:08 <jott> hey, that's why wireless communication was invented
May 07 21:35:41 <NullM0dem> anyone know of a good replacement for the camera app, mine locks up my n810, and causes the status light to go red
May 07 21:35:51 <KotCzarny> mencoder ?
May 07 21:35:52 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 21:35:59 <NullM0dem> ah thanks
May 07 21:36:12 <lcuk> lol - the red light is when its taking a picture isnt it
May 07 21:36:18 <lcuk> but on yours it locks?
May 07 21:36:21 <NullM0dem> i can pipe to it?
May 07 21:36:49 <NullM0dem> yeah for about 4 minutes till i attach power, then it snaps out of it to display the charging message
May 07 21:37:00 <NullM0dem> thats the only event that will unfreeze the nit
May 07 21:37:52 <jldiaz> OMweather broke
May 07 21:38:02 <Navi> Yeah, we know.
May 07 21:38:02 <jott> jldiaz: see above ;)
May 07 21:38:28 <practisevoodoo> anyone here got scummvm on their device?
May 07 21:38:42 <PHiiil> Hi i need help for nokia 770
May 07 21:39:03 <jott> http://pastebin.ca/1011117 <- fix is as simple as that
May 07 21:39:26 <jldiaz> yes, I was backscrolling but I can't get the start of the topic
May 07 21:39:29 * jott fixed his private weather app too :)
May 07 21:40:09 <jldiaz> PHiiil: ask :)
May 07 21:40:32 <jott> practisevoodoo: i have scummvm installed
May 07 21:41:23 <PHiiil> I like to install the theme for n800
May 07 21:42:13 <PHiiil> The same you can see on internet tablet talk
May 07 21:42:23 <n800n> 45,598 pictures on my n800
May 07 21:42:28 <n800n> and none of it porn
May 07 21:42:33 <n800n> cool eh?
May 07 21:42:37 <KotCzarny> yeah, sure
May 07 21:43:02 <lcuk> nice small folders or massive monolithic monsters
May 07 21:43:11 <n800n> small
May 07 21:43:19 <jldiaz> is it possible to use python for coding applets for the Home screen?
May 07 21:43:28 <lcuk> you found anything reasonable for browsing them yet
May 07 21:43:28 <jott> jldiaz: ye
May 07 21:43:29 <jott> s
May 07 21:43:48 <jott> quiver is quite ok for browsing pictures
May 07 21:44:03 <n800n> quiver is the best one
May 07 21:44:08 <lcuk> what format are most
May 07 21:44:22 <n800n> i wish it had a shortcut to turn images in full screen
May 07 21:44:26 <n800n> jpg and gif
May 07 21:44:35 <jldiaz> then I'll try to do a currency tracker
May 07 21:45:03 <lcuk> i ask because the lcd is very adept at handling YUV images - jpegs are naturally that :)
May 07 21:45:13 <jldiaz> I need to be daily informed of the yen exchange
May 07 21:45:16 <n800n> they're beautiful
May 07 21:45:41 <n800n> on this screen
May 07 21:46:01 <lcuk> KotCzarny :) another bonus there actually, can strip out the entire yuv->rgb filtering for jpegs
May 07 21:46:54 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 21:46:56 <jott> n800n: press l to rotate :)
May 07 21:47:10 <n800n> i don't have an l :/
May 07 21:47:29 <KotCzarny> n800n: map hw +/- to r/l
May 07 21:47:30 <lcuk> l=left i think
May 07 21:47:30 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 21:47:32 <jldiaz> n800n: use wiicontrol and add that shorcut
May 07 21:47:39 <KotCzarny> or dpad
May 07 21:47:40 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 21:47:41 <n800n> ok now we're getting a little out of hand
May 07 21:47:43 <jott> yeah r for right rotation ;)
May 07 21:47:53 <n800n> oh
May 07 21:48:09 <jldiaz> besides, it should be cool to browse photos with the remote
May 07 21:48:11 <Navi> glue the wiimote to the back of your N8X0
May 07 21:48:12 <n800n> i'll try it in a sec but i think the dpad in full screen just goes to the next pic
May 07 21:48:23 <Navi> then you can rotate by accelerometer
May 07 21:48:29 <n800n> hah
May 07 21:48:33 <Navi> We'll be that much closer to iPhone perfection
May 07 21:48:35 <jldiaz> navi :)
May 07 21:48:35 <n800n> yeah that'll look really classy
May 07 21:48:59 <jldiaz> navi, i did that for playing marble madness on fceu
May 07 21:49:04 <lcuk> just how small is an accell?  could one be made to utilise the serial port on back under battery?
May 07 21:49:50 <Navi> I'm not sure how big the smallest accelerometer is
May 07 21:50:05 <Navi> but they can get pretty small
May 07 21:51:13 <jott> lcuk: http://www.harbaum.org/till/tiltstick/index.shtml
May 07 21:51:56 <n800n> whoa numpty physics would be so cool with that thingy
May 07 21:52:16 <jott> enigma should be nice too (as seen on the site ;)
May 07 21:52:42 <Saviq> Numpty is already so cool ;]
May 07 21:52:50 <KotCzarny> using it as a text-input device would be interesting
May 07 21:53:22 <jott> KotCzarny: enigma style? ;)
May 07 21:53:30 <KotCzarny> dasher style
May 07 21:53:31 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 21:53:38 <jott> "oh no! i missed again"
May 07 21:53:52 <n800n> that kicks ass
May 07 21:54:01 <jott> yeah dasher could be funny
May 07 21:54:22 <n800n> yeah no flip key on quiver
May 07 21:54:33 <n800n> u/d = l/r
May 07 21:54:56 <jldiaz> fbreader...
May 07 21:56:11 <n800n> laters
May 07 22:12:30 <Saviq> jott: thanks a lot, you got my omweather working for the first time :D (I got my n800 just yesterday)
May 07 22:13:18 <jldiaz> eh? how?
May 07 22:13:40 <jldiaz> (sorry but scrolling back now is not an option)
May 07 22:13:58 <jott> http://pastebin.ca/1011117
May 07 22:14:08 <jldiaz> thx!
May 07 22:14:29 <pupnik> it'd be nice if linux had been designed from the ground up to allow save states of any program
May 07 22:14:43 <KotCzarny> pupnik: hibernation ?
May 07 22:14:44 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 22:15:01 <jott> implementation detail?! :P
May 07 22:15:18 <pupnik> yes per-app hibernation - save to disk.
May 07 22:15:39 <KotCzarny> i think that's doable
May 07 22:15:46 <pupnik> it seems to me you can't just do that with a kernel hack
May 07 22:15:52 <KotCzarny> yup
May 07 22:15:55 <Saviq> Yeah I wonder when suspend/hibernation'll be available on the n8x0
May 07 22:16:07 <jott> there is cryopid :)
May 07 22:16:11 <pupnik> your whole UI needs to support a 'restore'. your peripheral drivers perhaps too
May 07 22:16:17 <pupnik> gtk/hildon etc
May 07 22:16:24 <jldiaz> does maemo allow the gnome inputh method for unicode chars? (shft+ctrl+u)
May 07 22:16:48 <KotCzarny> pupnik: there is minimization, that unmaps windows etc
May 07 22:17:14 <jott> but i suppose its x86/amd64 only
May 07 22:17:22 <pupnik> good point KotCzarny
May 07 22:17:28 <pupnik> duno jldiaz
May 07 22:17:46 <pupnik> yeah i looked at cryopid.
May 07 22:21:23 <MangoFusion> its going to be available....
May 07 22:21:27 <MangoFusion> the day after....
May 07 22:21:30 <MangoFusion> the release of....
May 07 22:21:34 <MangoFusion> Duke Nukem Forever!
May 07 22:21:50 <MangoFusion> ;)
May 07 22:23:26 <pupnik> "John Carmack mentioned in his keynote at QuakeCon 2007 that the id Tech 5 engine will be OpenGL based, not requiring [microsoft] DirectX 10."  Carmack is a god.
May 07 22:25:03 <KotCzarny> wasn't he fired by id?
May 07 22:25:29 <KotCzarny> or at least moved away from quake series
May 07 22:26:06 <glass> id tech 5 engine could be used for whatever
May 07 22:37:31 <Jon> KotCzarny: carmack fired from id?!? he owns it!
May 07 22:37:37 <KotCzarny> lol
May 07 22:40:03 <NullM0dem> jobs was fired from apple, he owned it too
May 07 22:41:40 <dougt> so, i am setting up a page loading test on the n810 so that I can gather automated performance data against the mozilla browser.
May 07 22:41:57 <dougt> I would like to be able to run a httpd server on the device to minimize network traffic noise
May 07 22:42:08 <dougt> any suggestions on a good httpd for n810.
May 07 22:42:21 <dougt> i was hoping to use apache, but that doesn't seem to have been ported.
May 07 22:42:37 <KotCzarny> dougt: should compile i guess
May 07 22:42:54 <dougt> it should.
May 07 22:42:56 <dougt> yeah.
May 07 22:43:29 <dougt> but...
May 07 22:43:40 <KotCzarny> i can try building it for you if you want
May 07 22:43:40 <KotCzarny> :)
May 07 22:43:40 <dougt> i would rather not have to do that.
May 07 22:43:46 <MangoFusion> lighttpd, nginx are two "lightweight" options
May 07 22:43:55 <dougt> have you used either?
May 07 22:44:01 * KotCzarny uses thttpd
May 07 22:44:03 <dougt> i use lighttpd at home for a media server
May 07 22:44:03 <MangoFusion> only the former. on a vps.
May 07 22:45:01 <MangoFusion> pretty easy to compile though
May 07 22:47:30 <lcdd> use file:// handler? :)
May 07 22:48:02 <dougt> lcdd: yeah, but then we are not exercising the most common code path.
May 07 23:07:08 <pupnik> ththtlthp
May 07 23:20:11 <MajMin7> anyone around?
May 07 23:20:47 <MajMin7> does the N810 have a microphone?
May 07 23:20:52 <KotCzarny> yes
May 07 23:20:57 <MajMin7> oh nice
May 07 23:21:09 <MajMin7> there is an api to capture sound?
May 07 23:21:17 <KotCzarny> gstreamer?
May 07 23:21:25 <MajMin7> is that what that is?
May 07 23:21:28 <KotCzarny> ?
May 07 23:21:53 <dolske> dougt: run the JS HTTP server that we already use for Mochitests?
May 07 23:22:01 <MajMin7> what is gstreamer?
May 07 23:22:12 <KotCzarny> just google for it
May 07 23:22:30 <MajMin7> did that
May 07 23:22:48 <MajMin7> is this part of the Maemo sdk?
May 07 23:23:54 <MajMin7> ahh
May 07 23:23:56 <MajMin7> there it is
May 07 23:26:49 <dougt> dolske:  that is an idea.
May 07 23:27:02 <dougt> i got Nginx working
May 07 23:27:28 <dougt> now I am running into a problem where python2.5 is being "terminated"
May 07 23:27:50 <dougt> i am guessing it has somethign to do with the shell being not-bash.
May 07 23:27:59 <dolske> you'd have to ask Waldo how it compared in performance to a "real" http server, but for relative perf measurements/tests I'd expect it to be ok...
May 07 23:28:44 <dougt> i only care about relative page speed -- catching regressions, realizing perf gain.
May 07 23:28:53 <dougt> keeping the server constant is the important factor.
May 07 23:28:55 <dougt> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/425346
May 07 23:29:08 <dougt> that
May 07 23:29:15 <dougt> "Terminate" is not from my python code.
May 07 23:34:26 <t_s_o> ugh, just watched a video of opera mobile 4.5 on the htc advantage over at jkontherun.com. and if diablo do not bring some speed improvements to microb i would say nokia have seriously dropped the ball...
May 07 23:35:04 <wnight> Does anyone have libreadline-ruby? irb is hard to use without it.
May 07 23:38:43 <KotCzarny> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3893
May 07 23:38:43 <KotCzarny> lol
May 07 23:38:49 <KotCzarny> 'hot gadget' ?
May 07 23:39:01 <KotCzarny> i can understand 'hot' part, but 'gadget' ?
May 07 23:52:45 <Livingroom> oh em gee
May 07 23:52:48 <Livingroom> i finally found you guys!
May 07 23:52:49 <Livingroom> HAI!
May 07 23:53:22 <flo_lap> hi Livingroom
May 07 23:53:42 <GeneralAntilles> I prefer the bedroom.
May 07 23:53:45 <Livingroom> lolz
May 07 23:53:49 <Livingroom> so, i just got my n800 today
May 07 23:53:54 <Livingroom> and i'm like rockin' out
May 07 23:54:13 <Livingroom> it would be hard to overstate my satisfaction with this device.
May 07 23:54:49 <Livingroom> especially now that i've got it tethered to my iphone. thats the epic win right there, baby.
May 07 23:55:17 <Livingroom> i actually came here to ask: how do i install nano/pico/etc
May 07 23:55:32 <Livingroom> many of the tools i'm used to on debian and ubuntu are not present :(
May 07 23:55:49 <KotCzarny> find/compile it yourself
May 07 23:56:19 <Livingroom> that sounds like a job for...   GCC!
May 07 23:56:37 * flo_lap -> bed, good night
May 07 23:56:37 <Livingroom> also, whoever created that motd, i love you. 50 sources FTW
May 07 23:57:40 <GeneralAntilles> Livingroom, gronmayer.com/it
May 07 23:57:43 <Livingroom> yep
May 07 23:57:47 <Livingroom> i went there, it was epic awesome
May 07 23:57:49 <GeneralAntilles> It has all the repositories
May 07 23:57:52 <GeneralAntilles> and is searchable
May 07 23:58:15 <Livingroom> wedge, it's wonderful :)
May 07 23:58:46 <Livingroom> i look forward to many thousands of hours of tweaking my newest *nix box.
May 07 23:58:52 <GeneralAntilles> in particular, the nitapps.com repo should have nano
May 08 00:01:10 <Livingroom> freakin' sweet
May 08 00:01:23 <Livingroom> freakin sweet man
May 08 00:01:26 <Livingroom> this is just so freakin sweet
May 08 00:01:40 <Livingroom> you have no idea how euphoric i am right now over the incredible l33tness of this device
May 08 00:08:45 <Livingroom> are there any howtos on how to make applications run from "internal memory" to free up the 128m ?
May 08 00:08:56 <Livingroom> the internal sd card i guess is what i mean
May 08 00:09:26 <KotCzarny> search for: clone to mmc (or sd)
May 08 00:09:36 <Livingroom> kk
May 08 00:09:45 <KotCzarny> or just clone os
May 08 00:10:04 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631
May 08 00:10:32 <Livingroom> wow, that looks comlicated
May 08 00:10:40 <KotCzarny> not really
May 08 00:11:12 <KotCzarny> if i think what this link is then it's for not-linux savvy people
May 08 00:11:19 <Livingroom> yeah
May 08 00:11:23 <Livingroom> it's for the nonsavvy
May 08 00:11:33 <Livingroom> i'm faily savvy, but still looks like alot of steps where something might go wrong
May 08 00:11:38 <Livingroom> s/faily/fairly
May 08 00:11:40 <KotCzarny> nope
May 08 00:11:48 <KotCzarny> 1/ install/configure fanoush initfs
May 08 00:11:57 <KotCzarny> 2/ format card
May 08 00:12:02 <KotCzarny> 3/ copy files
May 08 00:12:04 <KotCzarny> done.
May 08 00:12:29 <NullM0dem> Anyone know of a developer tutorial for creating widgets for maemo?
May 08 00:18:51 <Livingroom> are there any programs for the webcam, to like auto-upload, or maybe you can connect straight to the device and watch the cam stream live?
May 08 00:18:59 <Livingroom> something other than the video chat :(
May 08 00:19:06 <KotCzarny> mencoder ?
May 08 00:19:47 <Livingroom> mencoder?
May 08 00:20:08 <Livingroom> that looks like for watching streams on the device, rather than from another device
May 08 00:24:41 <NullM0dem> mencoder encodes streams
May 08 00:25:12 <NullM0dem> that reminds me i need to look that up :0
May 08 00:25:18 <Livingroom> kk
May 08 00:25:26 <Livingroom> but, does the camera have a stream source though?
May 08 00:27:01 <KotCzarny> stream source?
May 08 00:27:09 <KotCzarny> it's presented as a v4l2 device
May 08 00:28:20 <KotCzarny> v4l1 if you find/recompile
May 08 00:56:36 <wnight> a2
May 08 01:00:00 <Livingroom> is it possible to useradd users? i did so, but it failed to set permissions or create a home directory :(
May 08 01:00:24 <GeneralAntilles> It's a single user system
May 08 01:00:34 <GeneralAntilles> Adding users is a recipe for things breaking.
May 08 01:01:31 <benh> somebody knows if one can launch a control panel by script ?
May 08 01:01:45 <benh> or  maybe I should just do a wrapper app that loads the .so and pops the panel
May 08 01:02:12 <benh> as I really don't want the whole CP app ...
May 08 01:19:43 <benh> hrm
May 08 01:20:05 <benh> somebody knows how I can pop up a dialog in front of everybody from an app launched in a shell script ?
May 08 01:20:12 <benh> ie, without creating a hildon window etc...
May 08 01:20:43 <KotCzarny> try pygtk?
May 08 01:21:09 <benh> nah, I'm in C :-)
May 08 01:21:23 <benh> if I just do a gtkdialog with NULL as a parent, things blow up at runtime
May 08 01:21:26 <KotCzarny> <benh> (...) shell script ?
May 08 01:21:31 <benh> can i do a child of a root device ?
May 08 01:21:36 <benh> nah, my app runs my control panel
May 08 01:21:39 <KotCzarny> decide if you are in c or in shell script
May 08 01:21:39 <KotCzarny> :)
May 08 01:21:51 <benh> basically, I'm doing a control panel to configure the bluetooth PAN paired device
May 08 01:22:12 <benh> I want the connect script to be able to fire up my control panel's dialog when trying to connect and it's never been configured before
May 08 01:22:24 <benh> so I did a little C app that the script launches
May 08 01:22:31 <benh> that dlopen the CP and executes it
May 08 01:22:45 <benh> but I'm a bit illiterate as far as gtk & hildon are concerned
May 08 01:23:00 <benh> the CP expects to get the parent window as an argument, which is fine if you are running from a full blown app
May 08 01:23:09 <benh> but here, I don't want a window... i want to pop up in front of everything
May 08 01:23:21 <KotCzarny> create invisible window?
May 08 01:23:25 <benh> so maybe be a child of the root window if there is such a thing ? or create an invisible window and be child of it ?
May 08 01:23:39 <KotCzarny> desktop is a root window i think
May 08 01:23:42 <benh> heh, that might work .. .though probably not a hildonwindow or I'll end up in the task list right ?
May 08 01:23:52 <benh> right but how do I get to it programmatically ?
May 08 01:24:08 <KotCzarny> i usually rip code from other apps
May 08 01:24:09 <KotCzarny> :)
May 08 01:24:31 <benh> heh, ok, now I need to find another app that does that :-)
May 08 01:24:40 <benh> ie, popping dialogs from background processes/services that have no app window
May 08 01:24:53 <KotCzarny> statusbar applets?
May 08 01:24:55 <KotCzarny> :)
May 08 01:25:08 <benh> yeah, maybe, good point
May 08 01:25:25 <benh> tho they are sb applets so they might get passed the RW by the status bar app... I'll have a look
May 08 01:25:27 <Livingroom> holy shit!
May 08 01:25:30 <Livingroom> tsocks!
May 08 01:25:33 <Livingroom> it looks awesome
May 08 01:26:09 <benh> Livingroom: it is :-) especially coupled with ssh -D
May 08 01:26:17 <Livingroom> yeah
May 08 01:26:20 <benh> the best way to get out of any corporate jail provided you get ssh :-)
May 08 01:26:24 <Livingroom> here's the thing
May 08 01:26:33 <Livingroom> my iphone, right? ipfw was only just ported, it's really buggy, doesnt work right
May 08 01:26:37 <Livingroom> but! tinyproxy works fine
May 08 01:26:47 <Livingroom> so i can browse through my iphone's wifi out to the Edge connection
May 08 01:26:59 <Livingroom> effectively, tsocks will make it so that all my other apps can use ths socks proxy, right?
May 08 01:28:15 <Livingroom> or am i misunderstanding?
May 08 01:34:37 <benh> hrm.. it would help if I initialized gtk in the first place !
May 08 01:34:50 <KotCzarny> :)
May 08 01:35:35 <Livingroom> here's a hard one: why does rdesktop quit as soon as i press ok?
May 08 01:35:35 <benh> ok, so creating a hildon program, a hildon window, and not making it visible seems to work
May 08 01:35:37 <Livingroom> it never actually connects
May 08 01:35:41 <benh> once I've inited grk
May 08 01:35:43 <benh> gtk
May 08 01:35:49 <benh> now let's try not doing the first 2 steps :-)
May 08 01:36:35 <benh> that works too :-)
May 08 01:39:42 <Livingroom> have ya'll ever used rdesktop? it doesnt want to work for me- quits when i press ok
May 08 01:41:38 <benh> allright, now I should probably display/store the BT device name rather than just the MAC address :-)
May 08 01:41:44 <benh> the later is a bit user unfriendly
May 08 01:42:16 <benh> and hopefully Martin will do a new release with the patch
May 08 01:42:29 <KotCzarny> encoding mac in a pixmap can be fun
May 08 01:42:42 <benh> now, I'll let others deal with the aspects of setting up the PAN gateway on the laptop, that's a different kind of nightmare :-)
May 08 01:43:44 <Livingroom> what are you creating?
May 08 01:50:01 <lopz> re
May 08 01:50:39 <SDuensin> Hi lopz
May 08 01:51:00 <lopz> :p
May 08 01:51:03 <Livingroom> woot got rdesktop working
May 08 01:54:55 <benh> Livingroom: improving the UI for maemo-pan
May 08 01:55:02 <benh> now I need an icon for the control panel
May 08 01:55:15 <benh> Livingroom: and learning a bit about gtk & maemo while at it :-)
May 08 01:55:34 <benh> what is this icon format in the deb control file ?
May 08 01:55:42 <benh> any way I can turn that back into a .png or such ?
May 08 01:56:16 <Livingroom> i have absoloutely no idea :(
May 08 01:56:33 <Livingroom> i assume maemo-pan is some sort of BT connectivity thingy?
May 08 01:56:43 <benh> yes
May 08 01:56:57 <benh> a cute hack to add support for BT PAN for networking
May 08 01:57:01 <benh> (ie. ethernet over BT)
May 08 01:57:04 <benh> very handy
May 08 01:57:13 <benh> version 1.0 only really connects to PAN enabled phones
May 08 01:57:20 <Livingroom> i c
May 08 01:57:31 <benh> there's a patch on garage to add some basic support for selecting any device but you can do that only once, it sucks a bit
May 08 01:57:44 <benh> and I've picked that up and added a control panel
May 08 01:58:14 <Livingroom> anyone wanna ssh into my n800? :P
May 08 02:06:12 <Livingroom> ok so
May 08 02:06:31 <Livingroom> how do i use mencoder to stream a v4l2 device?
May 08 02:11:14 <mikedep333> hey, the Eee 900s are available in the US
May 08 02:11:16 <mikedep333> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220332
May 08 02:11:23 <mikedep333> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220333
May 08 02:11:41 <Livingroom> why buy an eee though? underpowered, etc
May 08 02:12:30 <mikedep333> I'd rather not get into the subnotebook vs internet tablet argument. They serve different purposes.
May 08 02:12:44 <Livingroom> well, yes
May 08 02:12:50 <Livingroom> but still, i'm not keen on the Eee's
May 08 02:12:55 <mikedep333> what I will say is that it beats its competitors
May 08 02:13:20 <KotCzarny> well
May 08 02:13:21 <mikedep333> namely, this
May 08 02:13:22 <mikedep333> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834280008
May 08 02:13:25 <KotCzarny> i prefer ibm x32
May 08 02:13:26 <KotCzarny> :)
May 08 02:13:31 <KotCzarny> bigger screen
May 08 02:13:42 <mikedep333> yeah
May 08 02:14:02 <mikedep333> and I am overall happy with my HP tx1000z 12.1-inch tablet PC
May 08 02:14:09 <KotCzarny> yup
May 08 02:14:19 <KotCzarny> 12" is nearly optimal
May 08 02:14:24 <KotCzarny> for travel
May 08 02:14:51 <mikedep333> and I will be very happy with it once this comes out
May 08 02:14:51 <mikedep333> http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/hands-on-with-the-asus-xg-station-external-gpu
May 08 02:15:07 <mikedep333> it will let me hook up an external graphics card via the expresscard|34 slot
May 08 02:51:48 <dick-richardson> DRM is crap
May 08 02:52:47 <GeneralAntilles> dick-richardson, is this a new realization? :P
May 08 02:55:13 <dick-richardson> GeneralAntilles: no, merely a reiteration ;)
May 08 02:55:33 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
May 08 02:55:38 <GeneralAntilles> "Never forget!"
May 08 02:55:44 <KotCzarny> your reader is simply not approved
May 08 02:55:49 <shapr> Remember DRM is all about treating the customer like a criminal.
May 08 02:56:01 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
May 08 02:56:03 <KotCzarny> and you can be not approved too if you insist
May 08 02:56:17 <KotCzarny> :)
May 08 02:56:20 <GeneralAntilles> I'm waiting for them to issue Best Buy cashiers truncheons
May 08 02:56:30 <shapr> The best solution to DRM is ...
May 08 02:56:40 <KotCzarny> .txt
May 08 02:56:42 <shapr> learn an instrument, make music with your friends...
May 08 02:56:56 <GeneralAntilles> Or just find yourself some indies.
May 08 02:56:58 <dick-richardson> the solution is hackers :D
May 08 02:57:41 <GeneralAntilles> Vote with your wallet
May 08 02:57:48 <GeneralAntilles> give money to the people who don't use DRM
May 08 02:57:49 <dick-richardson> although a more discerning taste in music will generally lead you to artists that are a little more cerebral and therefore release music drm-free
May 08 02:58:02 <dick-richardson> exactly...I love amazon
May 08 02:58:32 <KotCzarny> or simply release it free
May 08 02:58:52 <KotCzarny> and only accept 'donations'
May 08 02:58:53 <KotCzarny> :)
May 08 02:59:19 <dick-richardson> NIN style...ghosts i-iv is really good, but then I had been a music major and enjoy that esoteric style
May 08 02:59:29 <KotCzarny> but that's an option only for those already known
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 08 02:59:57 2008