**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 08 02:59:57 2008 May 08 03:00:08 I spend my time on jamendo.com May 08 03:00:16 Lots of high quality cc music there. May 08 03:00:40 creative commons, beautiful May 08 03:00:40 dick-richardson: I like Stockhausen, I can handle esoteric! May 08 03:01:27 lol! yes. yes you can May 08 03:02:37 I still haven't matured enough that I can get through a Stockhausen composition w/o snickering May 08 03:05:33 His more accessible stuff is just him playing one part at a time of an entire work. May 08 03:05:45 It makes sense when you put all the pieces together. May 08 03:06:53 Reminds me of the 'discover your own variation' sort of compositions mentioned in Godel Escher Bach. May 08 03:07:29 dick-richardson: Also, it has nothing to do with maturity.. if you like it, that's all that matter. If you think it's stupid, dump it! May 08 03:07:42 :) May 08 03:08:12 i just listen to what currently suits my mood May 08 03:08:20 I've also noticed that music that's fun to play can be entirely different from music that's fun to hear. May 08 03:08:59 Trombone was my instrument...I can relate. Often the more physical the peice the more I enjoyed performing it May 08 03:09:26 I started learning guitar recently (at the age of 36) but I've appreciated music for a long time. May 08 03:31:28 Navi: how goes it? May 08 03:31:55 Hi May 08 03:32:39 Navi fails hard. May 08 03:33:18 someone mentioned NIN.. they are actually giving away their latest album right now, free May 08 03:34:25 check out tuesdays deals at www.slickdeals.net if you want it May 08 03:38:54 I don't like 'The Slip' as much as 'Ghosts I-IV' May 08 03:40:37 * unixSnob wonders if any maemo gps implementations have integrated with zillow May 08 03:43:38 zillow? May 08 03:43:56 Navi: so did you manage to get the script(s) to work? :) May 08 03:44:09 Nah May 08 03:44:17 :( sorry May 08 03:44:24 i should try them again May 08 03:44:30 Not completely sure how to use them May 08 03:44:38 There are only three lines of instructions :P May 08 03:45:19 i think that you basically run the do-all-pkgs.sh script on your device May 08 03:45:30 and then copy the result to a normal debian system May 08 03:45:37 and run the pl script May 08 03:45:49 damn.. nin is really policing these downoads May 08 03:46:07 Yeah, that's what I did May 08 03:46:26 timely: Zillow is a public database of the housing market, open to the public May 08 03:46:45 I modified do-all-pkgs.sh with the prefix of the rss metapackage, ran it May 08 03:46:48 unixsnob: then use bittorrent? May 08 03:46:51 ok May 08 03:46:54 copied the tar over to my sb May 08 03:46:58 ran the perl script May 08 03:47:07 i suspect you need to extract the tarball May 08 03:47:14 timely: the Dash GPS has been integrated with zillow, so as you drive past a house, you get the specs on last selling price, beds, baths, sq.ft. etc May 08 03:47:14 unless the perl script does that for you :) May 08 03:47:50 * timely obviously has no memory of the scripts May 08 03:47:56 heh May 08 03:48:27 I'll try it again after libjpeg finishes compiling May 08 03:50:06 I wonder if nin is testing watermarks on the public here.. each person gets a code to download May 08 03:52:33 timely, you're right May 08 03:52:36 seems like that'd be w/in there right May 08 03:52:38 it needed to be untarred May 08 03:52:44 KotCzarny: if my download fails I will switch to BT.. but I want to at least try to follow the rules here, since nin was generous enough to give their tunes away May 08 03:52:47 packages were generated May 08 03:53:03 Navi: i suppose i should improve the script so it looks for the tarball and considers unpacking it May 08 03:53:14 maybe May 08 03:53:15 unixsnob: aren't they seeding too? May 08 03:53:23 the tar was just to make it a lot easier to get the "files" off the "device" May 08 03:53:28 guys, is there no way to video conference with a pc? May 08 03:53:28 timely, It's not hard to nearly automate the entire process either May 08 03:53:38 the n800 doesnt seem to talk to any desktop client when it comes to video. May 08 03:53:45 Navi: yeah May 08 03:53:46 hum May 08 03:54:01 I have no idea.. but it seems they want some control over where the downloads go, because everyone has to enter a code to get the download May 08 03:54:16 timely, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19872 <- Bundyo generated an Opera deb May 08 03:55:26 Livingroom, Gizmo or aMSN May 08 03:56:53 Navi: as i write repeatedly, you can't legally do that May 08 03:57:00 in fact, i suspect even nokia can't May 08 03:57:34 timely, heh May 08 03:57:44 timely, someone should intervene :P May 08 03:58:00 i think i'd rather not get involved May 08 03:58:05 i don't want to be seen as a bad guy May 08 03:58:17 Oh, well then I'll do it May 08 03:58:56 * KotCzarny hands navi potato badge May 08 03:59:35 fwiw, i think there's actually a comment from the HE people explaining that they can't May 08 03:59:45 Hm? May 08 04:00:18 hrm May 08 04:00:27 the wiki page doesn't say that May 08 04:00:52 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/os2007hackereditionarchives/ May 08 04:00:54 the archive page does May 08 04:01:23 hrm... selecting Bluetooth PAN twice hard reboots the tablet May 08 04:01:25 http://www.notacloud.com/blog/?p=26 May 08 04:01:30 that page mentions it fairly clearly May 08 04:01:38 i'm not going to quote... but it's there May 08 04:01:42 next question, where can i find an onboard encoder for the v4l2 device? May 08 04:02:30 basically Opera is a company, and they sell licenses to products May 08 04:02:42 they also pay lawyers to write decent/reasonable licenses May 08 04:03:25 a customer (that's not an end user), decides to pay Opera to use their product in a certain product on a certain device. This involves a licensing fee for that product/device pair most likely per unit. May 08 04:03:55 A new OS, or a new device would need a new license and a new fee (most likely per unit) and that doesn't count lawyer costs :) May 08 04:04:14 and seriously, this is how Opera's business works. no one should blame Opera for this May 08 04:04:33 Nah, I understand. May 08 04:04:38 the developers at Opera have a right to try to earn enough money to buy pizza so they can feed their family May 08 04:04:43 and hopefully something other than pizza... May 08 04:04:48 Hehe May 08 04:04:50 great reason to drop the product and move to free one? May 08 04:04:51 :) May 08 04:05:00 KotCzarny: I was hired to work on microb May 08 04:05:21 but microb itself doesn't impose limits on what it can be installed? May 08 04:05:25 and no, I think you'll find it's not quite as great of a reason as you think May 08 04:05:42 microb? no May 08 04:05:42 What was the reason? May 08 04:05:51 but the license for the flash images does :) May 08 04:06:03 you can of course build microb yourself w/o licensing issue :) May 08 04:06:05 so one can make downloadable .deb ? May 08 04:06:15 yes May 08 04:06:19 :) May 08 04:06:24 in fact, the browser team has at times May 08 04:06:31 although anyone else could May 08 04:06:34 hrm May 08 04:06:44 be careful, i have no idea if microb has any (tm) or similar bits May 08 04:06:52 note that "Firefox" does have such guards May 08 04:06:59 Heh May 08 04:07:02 not just anyone can make a "Firefox" unless it's 100% pure May 08 04:07:18 You just can't brand it Firefox May 08 04:07:23 similarly, I can't go off and make an "Ubuntu" or a "Red Hat" May 08 04:07:30 Navi: oh, I can make a Minefield May 08 04:07:34 firefox imposes limiting on distributing 'official branded' packages compiled by not mozilla itself May 08 04:07:37 Indeed yo ucan May 08 04:07:38 or an Ice Ape, or ... May 08 04:07:50 KotCzarny: right May 08 04:07:51 but if you don't name it firefox etc. you can do what you want May 08 04:07:52 :) May 08 04:07:55 Ice Weasel, etc etc May 08 04:07:56 well, not precisely May 08 04:08:11 if you don't include the branding and don't call it Firefox, you can do what you like May 08 04:08:20 the brand is two parts, a name and the corresponding art May 08 04:08:21 yeah, that's what i meant May 08 04:08:24 take both, or leave both May 08 04:08:31 note: i was intimately involved in that May 08 04:08:39 got pics? May 08 04:08:40 Were you? May 08 04:08:40 leaving out --official-branding or something May 08 04:08:40 a large portion of it is my fault May 08 04:08:46 Navi: yeah May 08 04:08:59 remember, i'm a mozilla developer first and foremost May 08 04:09:04 i just happen to work for nokia today May 08 04:09:07 :) May 08 04:09:26 I actually didn't know that May 08 04:09:35 note that the original blame lies w/ the debian distros for doing things that are totally evil May 08 04:09:37 GeneralAntilles never got around to telling me May 08 04:09:40 but let's not go there May 08 04:09:55 ironically, what we're doing at nokia is worse May 08 04:10:02 Heh May 08 04:10:03 we have many more bad patches than the debian distros had May 08 04:10:10 hehe May 08 04:10:12 sometimes I hate my life :) May 08 04:10:18 but we did one very important thing! May 08 04:10:23 we didn't call our product Firefox! May 08 04:10:34 nor do we use their art :) May 08 04:10:41 Mmhm May 08 04:10:41 so at least i can sleep at night :) May 08 04:10:41 debfox ? May 08 04:10:42 :) May 08 04:10:51 firedeb ? May 08 04:10:53 NotSoFoxy May 08 04:10:54 fireian May 08 04:10:56 iceweasel? :P May 08 04:11:02 nokfox ? May 08 04:11:02 rm_you, that's a stupid name May 08 04:11:04 microb, silly people May 08 04:11:08 lol May 08 04:11:09 Who the hell uses that? May 08 04:11:14 Ugh May 08 04:11:15 ;) May 08 04:11:31 * rm_you gives two cheers for #debian-legal May 08 04:11:32 KotCzarny: fwiw the protections petty much prevent the variations you've mentioned May 08 04:11:48 hmm May 08 04:11:54 anyway May 08 04:11:59 and i suspect that the *deb* variants are actually forbidden by the debian side too :) May 08 04:12:15 actually, for more interesting stories about this, see *Zilla May 08 04:12:23 i have no problem in using unbranded software as long it's 100% the same (excluding branding parts) May 08 04:12:28 most variants are owned by the Godzilla people May 08 04:12:39 Debian variants have guidelines they need to follow May 08 04:12:39 and they generally try fairly hard to police it May 08 04:13:04 KotCzarny: debian packages IME are never 100% the same May 08 04:13:06 Ubuntu broke 'em for a span when it first came out, I think. May 08 04:13:06 who the fsck is mo? (as in mozilla? ;) May 08 04:13:13 it's a question of how divergent they are May 08 04:13:57 some patches are just integration, but i've seen more very evil patches than any dev should ever see in his (or her) life May 08 04:14:11 timely, I sent a PM to him May 08 04:14:16 anyway... let's not go there May 08 04:14:20 Navi: appreciated May 08 04:14:26 No problem May 08 04:15:16 fwiw, lawyers really aren't bad people. they have a job to do May 08 04:15:21 and they try their best May 08 04:15:42 now law makers. that's a different story :) May 08 04:15:46 I've played enough Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney to know that May 08 04:16:16 and for navi, for playing too much stupid games.. boot to the head! May 08 04:16:22 Oi! May 08 04:16:31 *many May 08 04:16:37 Phoenix Wright is a great game. May 08 04:16:48 game is a game May 08 04:17:25 Did you miss the joke? May 08 04:17:40 yup May 08 04:17:44 because i have never played it May 08 04:17:46 :) May 08 04:19:41 > In the sequels to the Phoenix Wright story of the Ace Attorney series, Manfred's daughter, Franziska; another prosecuting prodigy who became a prosecutor at the age of 13. May 08 04:19:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Wright:_Ace_Attorney May 08 04:19:50 Navi: can you fix that sentence? May 08 04:20:00 it's missing... some essential elements of a sentence May 08 04:20:09 not having played the game, i have no idea how to fix it May 08 04:21:38 In the Heh May 08 04:21:47 Fix the Wikipedia article? May 08 04:21:50 yeah May 08 04:21:58 just that one sentence May 08 04:22:04 don't spend your life there :) May 08 04:22:09 Makin' me do stuff that I never do :P May 08 04:22:24 http://www.cybermoonstudios.com/PhoenixBoot.html May 08 04:22:25 :> May 08 04:23:03 i think my flash plugin b0rke May 08 04:23:07 d May 08 04:23:22 you can find flv version too May 08 04:23:22 n800n: click the magnifying glass in the urlbar May 08 04:23:29 click components/plugins May 08 04:23:33 is flash enabled? May 08 04:23:43 That sentence doesn't even really belong there May 08 04:24:09 oh May 08 04:24:18 hahimanidiot. May 08 04:24:24 Perhaps May 08 04:25:08 night May 08 04:25:31 night May 08 04:43:15 http://www.neatorama.com/2007/08/19/man-killed-and-eaten-by-own-creepy-pets/ May 08 04:43:25 fun May 08 04:48:05 guys, my built in e-mail app never downloads the messages; headers only. why is this? May 08 04:48:21 god is watching May 08 04:48:27 KotCzarny: looks like a hoax May 08 04:48:43 doc: any links? May 08 04:48:52 KotCzarny: read the comments May 08 04:49:25 ahm, thesun May 08 04:49:59 pupnik, he's such a creepy voyeur. May 08 04:50:37 doc: still, i believe there are similiar stories in the world that could be real May 08 04:50:46 knowing people's stupidity May 08 04:57:04 YARRRRR May 08 04:57:08 why doesnt my email program work. i hate it! May 08 04:57:18 Because osso-email is shit? May 08 04:57:24 modest.garage.maemo.org May 08 04:57:24 yeah May 08 04:57:27 it is May 08 04:57:33 apt-getting clawmail now May 08 04:57:42 is there a way i can change the default menus May 08 04:57:49 because all my apps are precategorized May 08 04:57:51 i want to move stuff around May 08 04:58:12 yes, you can May 08 04:58:17 it's in the control panel May 08 04:58:32 in panels->organize May 08 04:58:35 timely, still around? May 08 05:09:12 i got ta showah! May 08 05:09:20 woo May 08 05:09:20 http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2008/05/canola-portable-media-player-user-interface-done-right.php May 08 05:09:52 It's funny when people say things like that May 08 05:10:23 'cuz honestly, I'd just hate using a UI like Canola's all the time for everything (No offense to the Canola devs) May 08 05:10:58 foe everything yes, but not for media players May 08 05:11:25 I like my media player interfaces simple and clean May 08 05:11:41 I just fire up Canola once in a while to show off May 08 05:12:17 i use it because of the feature. internet radio, photocast, podcasts, last.fm May 08 05:12:32 though i didnt use half those features before i started testing them for the article xD May 08 05:12:47 The one thing I love about Canola is the image viewer May 08 05:13:10 Not so much the whole library thing, but the responsiveness May 08 05:13:51 I didn't know you were a writer for anythingbutipod May 08 05:14:20 i hide it well :p May 08 05:14:43 aapparently May 08 05:16:11 KotCzarny: ever check out that dubstep.fm ? May 08 05:16:17 nope May 08 05:16:28 maybe not right now May 08 05:16:31 do they require logging on? May 08 05:16:37 will it work with mpg123 ? May 08 05:16:40 but there have been great mixes... cleaned out my brain May 08 05:16:58 i used mplayer http://72.36.193.82:8080 for 192kb/s May 08 05:17:04 but right now is not my favorite mix May 08 05:18:02 Scarpomancy: Predict someone's future by studying their old shoes. May 08 05:18:03 :) May 08 05:18:07 but for me it's very fresh, creative stuff, not tired and old May 08 05:19:57 anyone know how to get a phone's bt mac address, for gnokii? May 08 05:20:04 i liked cryosleep for some time May 08 05:20:13 cpt: hcitool ? May 08 05:20:18 thx May 08 05:20:21 or just look under the cover May 08 05:20:33 hmm? May 08 05:20:43 it's printed there afair May 08 05:20:56 yup May 08 05:21:04 ahm, phone's May 08 05:21:18 yeah, enable bt on the phone and run bt scan May 08 05:21:53 pupnik: http://207.200.96.225:8022/ May 08 05:22:02 the phone is lready paired with the n800... anywhere it says then? May 08 05:22:21 cpt: yes i think, don't remember the magic command though May 08 05:22:23 nvm found it May 08 05:22:27 what is this stream called KotCzarny ? sounds like Eno May 08 05:22:32 under "phone" in control panel xD May 08 05:22:39 just enter it to firefox May 08 05:23:03 i hear a big room May 08 05:23:45 mm it's nice thou May 08 05:23:58 yeah, but i stopped listening to it after a week May 08 05:24:03 limited supply of tracks May 08 05:24:04 :) May 08 05:24:26 from their site: Cryosleep - Zero Beat Guaranteed. May 08 05:26:26 it's nicely done May 08 05:26:40 yes May 08 05:26:56 my favorite serious ambient in the 90s was David Sylvian - Plight and Premonition, and Mimir - Mimiryiad May 08 05:27:09 lights, and architecture, and spaces May 08 05:29:12 http://www.flickr.com/photos/phantomscribbler/1119246952/ May 08 05:30:46 i sat on a park bench a few hours ago May 08 05:30:49 and i can still smell the perfume from the girl who sat there before me May 08 05:31:24 i treat it like invading into my living space May 08 05:31:34 (parfumes) May 08 05:31:59 *perfumes May 08 05:32:01 yes. true. in this case, i like it and it gave a strange note to the evening May 08 05:32:17 lake and a sunset? May 08 05:32:18 ;) May 08 05:32:33 like a ghost, or an encounter i didn't have May 08 05:32:56 reminds me of coming home after making out with a girl in high school May 08 05:33:27 not enough parameters given May 08 05:34:03 A University of Newcastle study found that women naturally opted for redder shades when given a choice. May 08 05:34:03 Writing in the journal Current Biology, experts say it may have helped women gather ripe fruit, or pick healthy mates. May 08 05:35:03 anyone here succesfully used phonelink? May 08 05:36:02 Doesn't support my phone May 08 05:36:20 it only supports the one in the dropdown list? May 08 05:36:35 Don't remember May 08 05:36:46 if so it only seem to support nokia May 08 05:36:52 Last I checked, gnokii didn't support s60v3 May 08 05:37:30 i got a sony ericsson but i dont know what to select in the "phone model" list May 08 05:45:26 pupnik: http://www.pixel-heroes.de/bossgallery.html May 08 05:45:27 :) May 08 05:47:20 you read german? May 08 05:48:10 nope, but those are self explainable (proper word?) May 08 05:48:25 i had german in high-school though May 08 05:48:59 lots of work May 08 05:49:24 there's something beautiful about a world where society has the left-over resources to make games May 08 05:49:26 self-explanatory May 08 05:49:36 doc: that's the word, thx May 08 05:49:40 no prob May 08 05:49:48 my mind goes senile sometimes May 08 05:49:55 I've had months of that :( May 08 05:50:12 it's all thanks to the division of labor doc|home May 08 05:50:20 eh? :) May 08 05:50:21 pupnik: without games your mind would be crashed i think May 08 05:50:33 I'm putting it down to lack of sleep and no real people to talk to :) May 08 05:50:38 without which we'd be scruffing to hunt or grow our food, each of us May 08 05:50:54 and that I have to spend all day thinking things through (programming) May 08 05:50:55 and our womenfolk would be knitting clothes out of grasses and wool May 08 05:50:57 we learn to play as kids May 08 05:51:09 man. I'd be happy to *have* one of womenfolk :/ May 08 05:51:12 and it's hard to give up May 08 05:51:39 do primitive societies have the ability to create works in which thousands of man-hours are spent making a game? May 08 05:52:03 probably May 08 05:52:05 no. that's the miracle of money, capital and division of labor May 08 05:52:08 but not many will play it May 08 05:52:47 no they can't. it's not just technology. it's the aggregation of human knowledge created by specilalization May 08 05:53:30 hello May 08 05:54:20 guys: if i apt-get remove osso-email-engine and all it's dependants, will i screw anything up? May 08 05:54:42 ..groom: you can always reflash May 08 05:54:44 :) May 08 05:54:59 i guess so May 08 05:55:05 hey, is there any way to change the priority on telepathy on os2008? May 08 05:55:26 prez: renice 10 `pidof telepathy` ? May 08 05:55:50 KotCzarny: sorry, i meant a jabber priority change May 08 05:57:15 I usually have several jabber clients going, and the client on os2008 has priority 0, and if I have my laptop on, i want the messages to go to my laptop May 08 05:57:49 i know nothing about jabber, sorry :) May 08 05:58:01 prez00, have you found a jabber client that will work with video from the nit? i cant find a desktop client that i can talk to with video :( May 08 05:58:21 Livingroom: nope, haven't really looked.. May 08 05:58:36 Livingroom: I use PSI as my desktop client May 08 06:00:10 i c May 08 06:00:19 i was incredibly bummed out when gtalk didnt support it :( May 08 06:02:37 anybody can possibly help a friennd of mine with an rss feed problem? May 08 06:02:49 i give a present - cd or game or something May 08 06:03:24 * KotCzarny knows nothing about rss, unfortunatelly May 08 06:03:29 i know a little May 08 06:03:32 what is the problem? May 08 06:04:04 also: how do i make the screen rotate on the n800? is it with an addon or is it built in? May 08 06:04:27 ..groom: sse2.net/rotate May 08 06:05:33 aaah geez, modified kernel. May 08 06:06:10 ..groom: so? it's reflashable, if you don't like it May 08 06:06:11 :) May 08 06:06:30 yeah, but still May 08 06:06:33 that all takes time :( May 08 06:06:39 the whole point of nokia's tablet is to be open/hackable May 08 06:06:42 yeah May 08 06:06:48 and thats why i have it May 08 06:06:51 i just kinda... May 08 06:06:54 dont want to take the time i guess May 08 06:07:01 afraid i'll brick something May 08 06:07:07 i guess it has a DFU mode, though? May 08 06:07:08 it's a 5 minutes of work May 08 06:07:10 seriously May 08 06:07:35 you can reflash even if you break initfs/kernel May 08 06:07:48 well, i remember back to my days of using debian on 486-DX2/66 machines, where a new kernel meant an all-night batch compile... and if you woke up and there were errors, it was god @#*$&# time. May 08 06:08:11 now it's 10-20 minutes May 08 06:08:15 for a kernel compile May 08 06:08:16 :) May 08 06:08:19 lolz May 08 06:08:25 is there a version of gcc for onboard compiling? May 08 06:08:31 yup May 08 06:08:35 oh snap May 08 06:08:36 there is May 08 06:08:39 i just apt-getted it ROFFLES May 08 06:08:53 how about an ncurses module selector for kernel recompiling? :) May 08 06:09:08 but to actually make it useful you should clone os to sd card May 08 06:09:12 more space May 08 06:09:12 yeah May 08 06:09:15 i need to do that May 08 06:09:22 would it be better to clone to a 2g card or a 4g card? May 08 06:09:35 or at least make a ext2/3 partition May 08 06:09:50 i'll pick up a 4g sd tomorrow if it's better May 08 06:10:03 whatever, but make a small vfat partition for compatibility May 08 06:10:15 i'm lost :( May 08 06:10:19 i'll just follow the instructions May 08 06:10:24 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631 May 08 06:10:26 those instructions May 08 06:11:08 does cloning to sd affect boot times? May 08 06:11:57 does it matter? May 08 06:12:01 you boot once May 08 06:12:03 usually May 08 06:12:08 well, i carry mine with me May 08 06:12:16 and i havent yet figured out how to suspend the device, only power it off May 08 06:12:36 * qwerty12 adds reflash number 40 to my list :? May 08 06:12:42 you don't May 08 06:13:03 with wifi off and no cpu waking apps you can idle it ~8-10days May 08 06:13:06 without turning off May 08 06:13:21 dude, seriously? May 08 06:13:31 so this screen-off blue flashing led mode is idle? May 08 06:13:46 huh? May 08 06:13:52 that's probably new mail May 08 06:13:54 :) May 08 06:13:57 You got mai; May 08 06:14:00 L May 08 06:14:03 well May 08 06:14:09 or your n800's about to explode May 08 06:14:10 if i let it sit, it goes black and the dpad starts flashing blue May 08 06:14:13 can be confusing at times May 08 06:14:26 I often think, oh look, a new mail, then *bang* May 08 06:14:38 that's called mail bomb May 08 06:14:38 rofl May 08 06:14:41 plastic splinters in my face, off to the doctor *again*. Medical bills May 08 06:14:43 messy all round May 08 06:14:47 rofl May 08 06:15:35 what upsets me the most is that when i turn BT off, the bt icon disappears from the utility bar and i have to hunt it down in control panel to turn it back on. May 08 06:15:45 Grab switchonbt May 08 06:15:56 It adds a menu option to your application menu May 08 06:16:58 sweet May 08 06:16:59 will do May 08 06:17:14 also: this tsocks, is it totally passive, or is there configuration or something May 08 06:20:02 also: idle mode, is that were i basically dont touch it? May 08 06:20:12 yup May 08 06:20:14 does it just do it's thing automatically, or do i have to tell it to do something May 08 06:20:18 and no offensive apps running May 08 06:20:43 hmm May 08 06:21:31 full usage 3-4h, idle with wifi on (idling) 1-3d, idle with wifi off 5-9d May 08 06:22:50 1-3d is still pretty darn good May 08 06:23:00 how is it so fuel efficient? May 08 06:23:04 arm May 08 06:23:29 it's a TI omap though May 08 06:23:40 i thought xscale was all groovy and whatever May 08 06:23:45 i guess omap is... SUPERIOR! May 08 06:24:38 pardon me a sec, i'm going to retether my iphone to this magnificent piece of electronic engineering and test some TSOCKS support May 08 06:36:06 damnit May 08 06:36:19 it's telling me that 192.168.1.2 is not on the same subnet as 192.168.1.12 May 08 06:36:24 what the heck. May 08 06:41:18 whats your netmask? 24? May 08 06:42:05 it's 255.255.255.0 May 08 06:42:13 DoD should make all netmasks illegal May 08 06:42:24 or shoot dem down May 08 06:42:49 i dont understand netmask, i always just make it 255.255.255.0 May 08 06:43:34 Livingroom: 255.255.255.0 is the same as 24 May 08 06:44:04 yes a 24bit netmask is usual for a local subnet May 08 06:44:13 so most of the time thats all you need May 08 06:44:30 i c May 08 06:44:41 grr, this is driving me nuts May 08 06:44:55 tsocks says socks server 192.168.1.2 is not on a local subnet May 08 06:45:07 but the browser on both a laptop and the n800 is proxy'ing fine May 08 06:45:11 and i can ping the ip, too May 08 06:45:19 * Livingroom punches himself repeatedly May 08 06:48:43 Livingroom: i never used tsocks but http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=1644860 May 08 06:48:58 he the guy says that 'local' doesn't mean a 'local network' May 08 06:49:03 whatever that is supposed to mean May 08 06:49:46 sweet, checking that out now May 08 06:50:33 wow May 08 06:50:38 my head is torqued May 08 06:50:42 i have no idea what he is talking about :( May 08 06:50:54 local subnet statement... hmmm May 08 06:52:30 * Livingroom enters deep scan research mode May 08 06:53:15 :) May 08 07:26:58 nite all May 08 07:27:02 oh btw i figured it out May 08 07:27:04 was bad info in the .conf May 08 07:27:07 anyway, nite all May 08 07:32:09 night ppl May 08 08:05:28 hi May 08 08:05:56 I've just installed scummvm and tried "Zak McKracken" (one of my favourites) May 08 08:06:01 There is no sound. Is it normal? May 08 08:06:26 hmm May 08 08:06:34 there should be? May 08 08:06:35 iirc May 08 08:07:17 as far as I remember, there was music during the intro, and some sound effects during the gameplay May 08 08:07:24 (step noises, for example) May 08 08:07:48 what I mean is, does work the sound for scummvm under maemo? May 08 08:08:27 oh, wait May 08 08:09:08 the game did a "click" noise when I turned on a lamp and opened a drawer May 08 08:09:19 so there is sound after all. Forgive me May 08 08:10:03 it's the music what doesn't work. Probably a missing soundfont, or midi player... May 08 08:13:50 hola May 08 08:14:06 Hi tigert. May 08 08:14:29 What are you up to nowadays? May 08 08:14:32 hi niels May 08 08:15:01 graphics soon again hopefully :) May 08 08:15:24 my battery on the n810 is running a bit low May 08 08:15:39 so if i become silent thats the reason :) May 08 08:15:43 in a meeting now May 08 08:15:45 Heh :) May 08 08:15:49 =) May 08 08:16:14 Is the meeting that interesting? :) May 08 08:16:43 yes :) May 08 08:16:54 meetings have their ups and downs May 08 08:17:01 long ones especially :) May 08 08:17:16 So no cool graphics stuff lately? May 08 08:18:04 not in immediate past, but i want to get back on that stuff again May 08 08:18:17 thats what i know best anyway May 08 08:19:49 tigert: Do you guys keep an eye on this guy's work? http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/chapter-iv-ready-to-surf/ May 08 08:20:58 will look, battery is starting to get annoyed :) May 08 08:21:27 Steal an other one ;) May 08 08:22:16 already did :) May 08 08:22:18 man May 08 08:22:37 that connectivity suggestion makes things very complex looking May 08 08:23:43 Yeah, it has pros and cons. Quick access presets, but more icons. May 08 08:23:58 yea May 08 08:24:11 very often its a case like this May 08 08:24:15 You should read his other posts too. He has some cool ideas. May 08 08:24:44 in many cases we have made a compromise between common scenarios and simplicity May 08 08:24:47 i mean May 08 08:25:01 the special cases usually add most of complexity May 08 08:25:16 like we assume you have one phone to connect with May 08 08:25:19 etc May 08 08:25:25 but thanks for the pointer May 08 08:25:28 will look May 08 08:25:43 Yep, I know it is hard. And almost always a compromise. May 08 08:25:49 yeah May 08 08:26:13 the "always online" idea should take care of his problem in many cases May 08 08:26:19 in this example May 08 08:26:25 but he uses offline mode May 08 08:26:31 so it wont work :) May 08 08:26:43 maybe to conserve battery May 08 08:27:03 but the thing connects to known wlans automatically anyway May 08 08:27:07 but ye May 08 08:27:19 interesting stuff May 08 08:27:27 hi guys, are there any ubuntu 8.04 related issues that should know if trying to install maemo sdk+? I'm getting the error: "checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs". Any ideas? May 08 08:27:32 Yeah, his icons ideas are fun too: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/chapter-ii-the-tray-strikes-back/#more-4 May 08 08:28:24 zchydem_work2, http://suppressingfire.livejournal.com/35277.html this is one May 08 08:28:53 karbas: thanks May 08 08:29:04 X-Fade: yeah May 08 08:29:13 X-Fade: the friggen tray May 08 08:29:30 tigert: NEED_MORE_SPACE! May 08 08:29:38 X-Fade: why do people want to see everything all the time? :) May 08 08:29:50 the screen is tiny anyway May 08 08:29:58 just make noise if needed May 08 08:30:07 and show nothing :) May 08 08:30:10 I think wifi and bt can be one, and sound and brightness too. May 08 08:30:31 Should clean it up nicely.. May 08 08:30:35 yea May 08 08:34:05 karbas: seems that I have already done that fixes different problem May 08 08:34:30 I use the cpu monitor to see what the device is doing. If there is always feedback about what the device is doing, this should not be needed ;) May 08 08:34:41 yeah May 08 08:34:52 and the cpu monitor uses cpu too :) May 08 08:35:25 Yes it does, but having an unresponsive browser for 10 seconds and not nowing what is going on is worse ;) May 08 08:35:41 my device has been working pretty awesomely with the latest release May 08 08:35:57 Mine constantly reboots on larger websites. May 08 08:36:10 zchydem_work2, ok May 08 08:36:11 X-Fade: does it make you more happy to see ffox iks hanging again? May 08 08:36:16 Something is not ok, but I can't pinpoint what.. May 08 08:36:19 when you know it anyway :) May 08 08:36:37 do you use swap? May 08 08:36:41 tigert: Then I at least know that a reboot is coming in 10 seconds :) May 08 08:36:50 i had one reboot on flickr today May 08 08:37:11 but its been a LONG time since this crashed before that May 08 08:37:39 I think it is ajax related. Javascript easily consumes a lot of resources. May 08 08:38:13 yes May 08 08:38:15 it does May 08 08:38:54 That is one of the downsides of the current browser. But it seems better in minefield, so it will come eventually. May 08 08:42:49 i am actually surprised how well facebook and flickr and gmail work on the device May 08 08:42:59 they are darn heavy on desktop too May 08 08:43:14 Yep, that is true. May 08 08:43:18 sure things are slow May 08 08:43:32 But that is because your firefox on the desktop is slow at javascript too ;) May 08 08:43:35 but its way better than anything else i have seen on a handheld May 08 08:43:40 yeah May 08 08:43:43 Unless you run the latest betas. May 08 08:44:54 yea, i run ff3 beta5 i think, on myy laptop May 08 08:45:03 the autobookmarks rock May 08 08:45:31 I'm starting to like the awesomebar more. May 08 08:45:45 wazzat? May 08 08:45:55 But there are so many websites with 'Untitled page 1', that it is sometimes frustrating. May 08 08:46:31 You can type in the location bar and it looks up by url and title in your history. May 08 08:46:42 yeah May 08 08:47:01 and that is exactly what makes the bookmarks thing rock May 08 08:47:23 just star everything and it finds them always by typing a bit May 08 08:47:32 Fennec has it working on the device, that part of fennec works well. May 08 08:48:04 cool May 08 08:48:33 But it has sub-optimal rendering because of the kinetic scrolling, so it is a slideshot on larger pages. May 08 08:48:46 *slideshow. May 08 09:11:32 yah May 08 09:12:06 hi May 08 09:12:39 anyone used rlfe ("cook" input lines for other programs using readline) in the tablet? May 08 09:13:01 I noticed that it is available as maemo package and installed it May 08 09:13:12 I was hoping to have readline support in ash May 08 09:13:47 however it doesn't work. I always get the error: ptypair: could not open master pty: No such file or directory May 08 09:14:06 Related perhaps to the inexistence of /dev/pty under maemo? May 08 09:43:10 What's the difference in battery life between auto connect and no connection, assuming the only thing auto connecting is the RSS reader for example? May 08 09:43:29 Does the RSS reader actually ask to connect or just receive a connected signal and then update? May 08 09:43:59 you can set it to autoupdate on specific time intervals, if youre not connected it simply wont update May 08 09:44:25 ah, so you can set a time interval May 08 09:44:39 lardman: I _think_ the RSS reader will try to connect and the system (if configured to auto-connect) will try to set the connection up. May 08 09:44:47 if a connection occurs before the time interval, does it reset its timer? May 08 09:45:11 think so lardman May 08 09:45:21 I can always look at the source of course May 08 09:45:55 I was just thinking to myself that it would be nice if I could set a connect time, say once per hour (and disconnect time too) May 08 09:46:15 once per hour during the day, then no auto connections over night (when they aren't needed), etc. May 08 09:46:24 in "update settings" you can check if its supposed to update automatically or not, set time interval,and set if its only going to update when connected to wlan or all connections May 08 09:46:25 isnt the autoconnect that it tries to keep the device online all the time? May 08 09:46:28 if there is a known wlan around? May 08 09:46:50 in connectivity settings May 08 09:46:51 that's what I thought; once connected it stays that way May 08 09:47:03 but how bad is that for the battery? May 08 09:47:17 s/battery/battery life May 08 09:47:17 well, of course it drains some no doubt May 08 09:47:19 try? May 08 09:47:30 of course :) May 08 09:47:31 I charge mine every night anyway May 08 09:47:36 depends.. you might keep it offline if you cant access a charger in several days May 08 09:47:41 it outlasts my phone which is the primary net connection for it May 08 09:47:48 but yeah May 08 09:48:12 if you need to keep it running for a long time then offline mode might be good? May 08 09:48:22 I have no need of contant online-ness as I don't tend to use IM on it, but would be good to update the news feed every so often, but then turn off again rather than wasting power, etc. May 08 09:49:08 connecting/disconnecting uses more power than jst staying on i think May 08 09:49:52 sounds like it would need testing; though connecting for 1min every hour surely must use less power than staying online all the time May 08 09:50:46 why do you need to be so very power efficient anyways? May 08 09:50:59 no reason, just like efficiency May 08 09:52:00 lardman: well. When I'm at home, my n810 is mostly connected to the charger when I don't use it. May 08 09:52:17 (eh, Cptnodegard I meant) May 08 09:52:55 not so when my n810 is in a pocket, a wireless zone, or elsewhere. May 08 09:54:16 I suppose I could set it to auto-connect with a short idle timeout (iirc that works), and set something (such as RSS reader) to connect every hour May 08 09:55:18 for me though, it would be better to have the connection timing on the connection manager rather than individual apps (as these ought to use the connection if it comes up even if they didn't ask for it?) May 08 09:55:32 i just leave it to do whatever the fuck it wants :) in other words its always online if theres a known wifi signal in range. i just charge it every day and if i go anywhere ofr long i can just bring an external batteyr May 08 09:55:32 in the connection manager that should read May 08 09:55:46 lol May 08 09:55:52 Grr, got a new laptop, but don't have an installation media ready -- takes 5 hours to download a dvd image May 08 09:56:13 dvd image?! what are you installing? May 08 09:56:15 inz: its calling "planning ahead" :) May 08 09:56:49 Cptnodegard, yeah, my old laptop just was a little low on free disk space May 08 09:57:28 delete some porn :3 May 08 09:59:32 lol http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/chapter-ii-the-tray-strikes-back/ "There have been bug reports, angry posts, even incantations to Satan ever since that stupidity first surfaced and yet, even in ITOS2008 it hasnt been fixed." May 08 10:06:03 lardman: first time you saw that? May 08 10:06:14 yep :) May 08 10:06:19 you well hrw? May 08 10:06:55 lardman: no - I've read it some time ago May 08 10:07:19 ah, sorry my poor English, are you well? May 08 10:07:26 I am well May 08 10:07:38 fine etc May 08 10:07:43 yep, good May 08 10:08:11 Am I right in thinking that Nokia's interface spec is now more plastic? May 08 10:08:24 "plastic"? May 08 10:08:29 modifiable is perhaps a better word May 08 10:08:55 lardman: tigert should be able to tell you all about that :) May 08 10:08:56 lardman: and also closed May 08 10:08:58 Nokia are willing to make changes where before the answer was "no it's that way as it's in the spec" May 08 10:11:16 ~lart Outlook for not giving me any incoming email for the past 18h May 08 10:11:16 * infobot teaches Outlook for not giving me any incoming email that M$ Access is a database. No, really, a database. A real live multi-user... well, ok, not multi-user, but a database. Yeah, that sounds right. for the past 18h May 08 10:11:31 hmm, Outlook probably knew that one May 08 10:28:45 hi May 08 10:43:29 hi May 08 12:09:58 morning May 08 12:21:37 Hey, folks, is OMWeather dead? May 08 12:21:43 dunno May 08 12:21:46 not working here either May 08 12:22:30 The weather server must have changed the html page format May 08 12:24:10 yes May 08 12:24:15 someone was talking about it in here before May 08 12:24:26 info here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17532&highlight=omweather&page=7 May 08 12:32:45 johnx: sounds like a full-blown natural disaster May 08 12:32:55 Everybody's widgets went dead May 08 12:33:18 yup, unless they *gasp* patch and recompile or accept a patched binary from someone May 08 12:33:29 yup, it's a freakin' epidemic May 08 12:34:38 Just another casualty from that cyclone in Burma May 08 12:34:43 ah, so it's not just me :) May 08 12:34:52 i got a python update though May 08 12:34:57 maybe it was because of that? May 08 12:35:01 just guessing :/ May 08 12:35:08 BTW, somebody has to tell OMW developers that their question marks are ugly =) May 08 12:35:14 RST38h: :) May 08 12:35:18 Huh? aquatix, you did read that link? May 08 12:35:22 at least they default to sunny May 08 12:35:25 Blafasel: sorry, not yet May 08 12:35:31 * aquatix clicks May 08 12:35:34 You should ;) May 08 12:35:40 at work, so not browsing *too* much ;) May 08 12:36:08 i guess that first remark is about the python packages ;) May 08 12:36:30 No browsing, but IRC? Yeah.. ;-p May 08 12:36:35 weather.com changed their URL format May 08 12:36:46 Hey, I'm at a customer's site and still surfing. =) May 08 12:36:54 omweather is written in C May 08 12:37:28 irc is less obvious, as i'm also typing in latex ;) May 08 12:37:38 latex on a tablet? May 08 12:37:46 nah, on a pc here May 08 12:37:56 latex on my home server :) May 08 12:38:02 just vim in a screen session May 08 12:38:15 Hmm.. Can your client show colors? We could spam some nice ascii arts to get your coworkes attention ;) May 08 12:38:34 irssi does, yes :P May 08 12:38:47 it can also ignore people ;) May 08 12:39:08 * aquatix likes screen and its shortkeys May 08 12:39:22 if it gets too colour-y here, i just switch back to vim :P May 08 12:46:56 * RST38h uses ircii May 08 12:47:13 [and used it for years] May 08 12:48:48 where can I find info on lifeguard_resets? May 08 12:49:22 what kind of info? how to disable it? May 08 12:49:45 hey, what's the full name of the camera chip in n810? May 08 12:49:56 i.e. what's the 'x' in TCM825x May 08 12:50:11 Tablet booted. TRying to figure out why. May 08 12:50:38 It seems it boot quite often when I'm charging it May 08 12:50:53 pyhimys, some apps will trigger a reboot if they die off while the tablet is running May 08 12:51:15 if some program that's monitored by the lifeguard is crashing that would be the cause May 08 12:51:24 pyhimys, /var/lib/dsme/stats May 08 12:52:11 in the lifeguard_resets i got bme_RX-34 : 254 * May 08 12:52:42 pyhimys, I got that too on one N800 device quite a lot May 08 12:52:43 thats the battery management i suppose May 08 12:52:52 pyhimys, IIRC it was a prototype though May 08 12:53:26 they've shipped me a proto-unit! The bastards! :) May 08 12:55:13 hmm, maybe I should just reflash the device and see if the problem persists May 08 12:55:18 does someone know of downloadable schematics for the n810 btw? May 08 12:56:02 pyhimys, it most likely will May 08 12:56:40 damn May 08 12:58:16 a proto unit of what? May 08 13:00:08 timeless: N800 :) May 08 13:00:29 hrm, i have one of those on my desk, do you really have one? May 08 13:01:18 timeless: Unless there has been an enormous misunderstanding, No. May 08 13:01:46 Ordered mine bit over a year ago from nokia webshop. May 08 13:02:09 so why do you think it's a proto? May 08 13:02:32 15:52 < inz> pyhimys, I got that too on one N800 device quite a lot May 08 13:02:33 if you open the back of the device, what does it list for FCC ID ? May 08 13:02:46 15:52 < inz> pyhimys, IIRC it was a prototype though May 08 13:03:27 also, which software are you using? May 08 13:03:36 iirc you should be using -51 or something like it May 08 13:03:54 * timeless tries to remember which group had interesting problems w/ batteries May 08 13:04:09 balrog-kun: run dmesg May 08 13:04:10 there were people who complained that their device wouldn't power on in certain temperature ranges :) May 08 13:04:28 balrog-kun: n800 had tcm8251, n810 tcm8253 iirc May 08 13:04:45 timeless: doesn't say anything abou fcc, just that it is made in finland May 08 13:05:13 oh, sorry, try looking for C E... and Code/Co'digo May 08 13:05:30 ops. wrong data May 08 13:05:39 timeless: 0631673 May 08 13:05:52 anyway, that wouldn't be a proto :) May 08 13:06:07 those numbers are things that get included w/ real devices :) May 08 13:07:29 The proto-thing was mainly a joke. (albeit a bad one) May 08 13:07:43 One should always jump to conclusions. May 08 13:07:56 * timeless doesn't appreciate bad jokes May 08 13:08:07 * timeless assumes everyone is serious until proven otherwise May 08 13:08:46 inz said he had battery charging issues on a prototype so I just _had_ to have a protounit also May 08 13:08:58 [timeless@centos timeless]$ df -h . May 08 13:08:58 Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on May 08 13:08:58 - 28G 942M 27G 4% /home/timeless May 08 13:09:04 * timeless frowns May 08 13:09:19 timeless: sorry about that. May 08 13:10:13 pyhimys, has your tablet always behaved like this or only since you installed some software? May 08 13:10:45 btw, do you have a /media/mmc1/core-dumps folder? May 08 13:10:53 johnx: since the OS2008 I think May 08 13:11:07 people who want to help out are invited to use such a folder to collect crashes May 08 13:11:15 we actually can try to do something w/ your crashes May 08 13:11:44 Don't have one, but will create it May 08 13:11:58 timeless, I had *no* idea that making a core-dumps folder would cause it to collect core dumps. Is this publicized somewhere? May 08 13:12:13 dunno, what does google say? :) May 08 13:12:25 maemo.org - Maemo 4.x: Maemo Debugging Guide May 08 13:12:25 You should now have a core file under the /media/mmc1/core-dumps directory. ... /home/user # ls -l /media/mmc1/core-dumps/ -rw-r--r-- 1 user root 139264 Nov ... May 08 13:12:26 maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/maemo_debugging_guide.html - 80k - May 08 13:12:28 -- May 08 13:12:32 google says it's documented May 08 13:12:41 google also says that i've mentioned it here before :) May 08 13:12:46 does the mere existence of that folder cause the tablet to create core dumps? May 08 13:12:48 ah, but in something that's aimed at users? May 08 13:12:57 Googlito ergo sum? May 08 13:12:57 jackcrow: kinda May 08 13:13:04 cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern May 08 13:13:12 that setting is what controls where they go May 08 13:13:14 (oh no another bad joke) May 08 13:13:31 we hard code the path (note that you should not assume the path will always be that, in fact it will change) May 08 13:13:43 but the kernel won't write into a directory that doesn't exist May 08 13:13:47 hmm...maybe this needs to start getting mentioned on ITT for people have have managed to develop weird crashes :) May 08 13:13:51 so the mere lack of the directory means no core-dumps May 08 13:14:21 interesting, thanks May 08 13:14:41 fwiw, that feature isn't really maemo specific May 08 13:14:47 the default path is just maemo specific May 08 13:14:54 the normal core pattern is probably "core" May 08 13:14:58 or something like that May 08 13:15:53 anyway, you'll have to find someone w/ ties to nokia if you want to get your core dumps processed May 08 13:16:11 no guarantees, and keep in mind that a core dump may contain confidential bits May 08 13:16:30 choosing to distribute such a file is a choice... May 08 13:16:47 something like that... i wrote better legalese for the people working on a ui for core dump collection May 08 13:16:52 hopefully it'll appear someday :) May 08 13:19:03 something like "Nokia takes no responsibility for information contained within submitted core files and assumes no liability for such data?" :) May 08 13:19:06 still, would it be helpful to get the word out on ITT? "If you have a weird reoccurring crash, please consider creating a core-dumps folder in your external sd card slot. This can help Nokia programmers to understand what causes the bug to appear. Realize that core dumps *may* contain information that the crashing program was handling at the time, such as email address, name, phone number, etc" May 08 13:24:36 trickie_: ping? May 08 13:25:12 hrw: pong May 08 13:25:22 trickie_: tested umac? May 08 13:25:42 sorry i been MIA, have to move from my apartment so all my time been taken May 08 13:25:49 np May 08 13:25:52 but May 08 13:25:56 hey, hrw, what's involved in testing this? May 08 13:26:18 hopefully tonight people will leave me alone :) May 08 13:26:29 johnx: its 2.6.25-omap May 08 13:27:00 so, use flasher to boot kernel and test a module? May 08 13:28:03 johnx: have you got a 2.6.25-omap booting ok? May 08 13:28:18 nope, I haven't been focusing on kernel stuff May 08 13:29:44 if someone gives me the image they want me to test, I'll test it though May 08 13:30:49 well i stuffed my mmc card with my mamona install, so i have to fix that up first May 08 13:31:31 and then i have been playing with booting a kernel from the flasher and boot with rootfs=/dev/mmcXXX May 08 13:31:52 so you need a image that will at least do something about patting the watchdog May 08 13:32:15 lol May 08 13:32:27 * KotCzarny has misread 'petting the watch dog' May 08 13:32:39 he he May 08 13:32:42 close enough May 08 13:32:58 not as messy as a real dog, but demanding enough :) May 08 13:32:59 ah, I should be able to do that here. I have Debian booting so I can just write a script to poke the wd and bring up usbnet as well May 08 13:34:14 johnx: http://www.muru.com/linux/n8x0/ May 08 13:34:16 one there May 08 13:34:27 yup, that's the one I was thinking of May 08 13:34:36 though I might just set r&d mode anyways May 08 13:34:43 hrw: thanks May 08 13:34:43 and disable lifeguard-reset May 08 13:34:44 so if you could build HEAD from linux-omap, then maybe you could help test hrw's modules May 08 13:35:35 johnx: well if you boot directly to mmc then dsme etc won't be running till you start it May 08 13:35:58 balrog-kun: nope - I was wrong. May 08 13:36:16 i would like to try to come up with a free replacement for dsme/bme etc, so i don't bother starting them ATM May 08 13:36:41 ah, what I don't have right now is a dev env. I'll need to do something about that first... May 08 13:36:54 johnx: get mamona :) May 08 13:37:00 Now that I have the core-dumps directory the damn thing wont crash anymore. Which is quite nice also. May 08 13:37:08 or Poky or any other OE based env May 08 13:37:23 pyhimys: ah. A Heisenbug. May 08 13:37:47 poky... cause then hrw can provide support ha ha ha May 08 13:37:52 I have OE on a machine I have an account on, but it's x86_64 and is somewhat troublesome :/ May 08 13:38:05 the mamona guys are great help too May 08 13:38:35 hrw: ok May 08 13:38:46 hrw: unless you've guessed right May 08 13:38:52 hrw: there's a 1/100 chance May 08 13:41:58 johnx: what troubles were you having with OE? May 08 13:42:11 its a fast moving target, but its worth the look into May 08 13:42:18 nice up to date toolchain May 08 13:42:24 build stuff that appears to be x86_64 related, perl won't build right now May 08 13:44:44 johnx: i think some of the mamona guys build on x86_64, so if you interested #mamona is a good place to hang out May 08 13:44:47 anywa May 08 13:44:53 back to the real world - work :( May 08 13:44:59 ah, have fun May 08 13:45:06 ill try May 08 13:47:13 i'll need a really tiny screw driver to find out May 08 13:48:43 it's funny May 08 13:49:18 why does maemo ask whether you want to really quit offline mode, or really update your package list, but not whether you really want to turn off the device? :) May 08 13:49:39 Because secretly it's lazy May 08 13:49:50 heh :) May 08 13:50:01 "Do I *really* have to turn on the wifi radio? c'mon man..." May 08 13:50:25 sounds like my perfect electronic companion ;) May 08 13:50:45 Read memory location 0xDEADBEEF? [y/n] May 08 13:50:50 maemo, the lazy geek's electronic equivalent May 08 13:50:56 RST38h: :) May 08 13:51:01 0xDECAFBAD May 08 13:51:17 heh...a "translation" to casual english would be fun May 08 13:51:25 and there was much rejoicing May 08 13:51:29 * aquatix has weather again May 08 13:51:37 patched binary? May 08 13:51:38 johnx: decaf coffee is bad :) May 08 13:51:41 johnx: yeah May 08 13:51:51 aquatix, very true May 08 13:51:54 too bad i really had to reboot May 08 13:51:59 it's like a bait and switch May 08 13:52:03 unchecking/checking applet didn't help May 08 13:54:19 johnx: perl do not build on x86-64? May 08 13:54:29 running through it again May 08 13:54:35 johnx: then why I did not noticed it during last year... May 08 13:54:56 hrw, I dunno. My build host is a gentoo machine. Maybe there is some weirdness there May 08 13:55:15 most probably May 08 13:55:20 I'll see if it builds this time May 08 13:55:21 :) May 08 13:55:56 KotCzarny, yeah, I didn't pick the OS. My friend gave me an account and said "go nuts building whatever you want." May 08 13:56:02 so I'm not gonna complain to him :) May 08 13:56:03 hmm May 08 13:56:06 chroot then May 08 13:56:06 ;) May 08 13:56:31 * KotCzarny usually unpacks slackware packages on hostile/weird systems May 08 13:57:10 that would work I guess, I just haven't gotten around to it May 08 14:00:08 johnx: i build on gentoo May 08 14:00:22 not x86_64 though May 08 14:00:37 well, I'll see if it fails again, and write a bug report May 08 14:02:13 it has 1873 tasks to do, so maybe I'll let it work while I sleep ;) May 08 14:02:25 good plan May 08 14:02:49 toolchain+mamona usually takes me about 3/4 hours from scratch May 08 14:03:15 this is toolchain+altboot-console-image for collie as a test May 08 14:06:11 Mamona is an x86 hosted version of Maemo, right? May 08 14:06:33 no, its using openembedded to build maemo May 08 14:06:44 http://dev.openbossa.org/trac/mamona/ May 08 14:06:53 thasnks May 08 14:07:31 its not maemo, but uses some componets May 08 14:07:44 and maemo kernel and initfs by default May 08 14:08:35 Ah, so they do work on IT hardware but attempt to replace components one by one? May 08 14:11:28 <||cw> does it look like maemo or does it give the gpe/opie option? May 08 14:13:40 RST38h: yes kind of, not sure if all proprietary components are targeted for replacement May 08 14:13:46 ||cw: it is enlightment based ATM May 08 14:14:32 ah, interesting notes on sound support :) May 08 14:14:33 the confirmation dialogs come from nokia house style May 08 14:14:40 some of us hope someday to force people to get rid of that style May 08 14:14:46 but well... it's an uphill battle May 08 14:15:06 you'll see the same sort of behavior in nokia phones May 08 14:15:18 "hope to force people" <-- now, THAT is a plan May 08 14:15:44 note: i've been hoping for 2 years May 08 14:15:49 any hope for providing a "secret" gconf key to disable all the prompts? May 08 14:15:53 i think we've managed to fix the order of one dialog May 08 14:15:58 but not get rid of the dialog May 08 14:16:03 no May 08 14:16:09 well, wait May 08 14:16:20 you could probably replace a certain part of hildon w/ an auto responder May 08 14:16:25 the code for hildon is open source May 08 14:16:27 heh May 08 14:16:30 i've written similar modules for gecko May 08 14:16:33 very handy May 08 14:16:40 very elegant :) May 08 14:17:06 if the dialogs include help context, it'd actually be possible to make it truly correct May 08 14:17:16 from memory maemo uses/supports atk for testing May 08 14:17:18 and automated testing May 08 14:17:35 which means you should be able to write an atk script to dismiss those dialogs May 08 14:17:46 they don't annoy me that much as long as d-pad center defaults to "do what I told you to" May 08 14:18:00 you clearly don't have an n810 May 08 14:18:07 of course not May 08 14:18:08 since that button isn't available May 08 14:18:17 upgrade and get more annoyed :) May 08 14:18:17 * johnx likes his sd slots May 08 14:18:27 i think it'll cost you $400 for the experience :) May 08 14:18:38 more if you want storage space May 08 14:18:39 :) May 08 14:19:01 I'm perfectly happy with my collection of ARM gadgets for right now May 08 14:19:41 but really, why would anyone actually *not* have the keyboard out? May 08 14:19:49 anyone strapped their NIT to their ARM yet? May 08 14:20:03 johnx: my n810 is in a case May 08 14:20:15 I'm sorry to hear that May 08 14:20:18 and keyboard makes it lose balance anyway May 08 14:21:17 The funny part is, I am still using E70 phone more often than N810, especially to type messages: E70 keyboard is much more comfortable May 08 14:21:34 Maybe I can somehow make S60-based E70 act as a BT keyboard? :) May 08 14:21:49 yeah, either of my zauruses win for text input, though I've gotten pretty fast with the fullscreen keyboard May 08 14:22:34 Still can;t enable full screen keyoard reliably - it is enabled in a really weird way on n810 May 08 14:23:00 quick question for N810 owners who have used an N800: Which d-pad do you like better, ignoring the requirement to slide out the keyboard for now? May 08 14:23:22 N800. May 08 14:23:25 pupnik: http://diatom.tv/node/69/play May 08 14:23:35 RST38h, well that's a sad state of affairs :/ May 08 14:23:58 No, just a bad design decision on the part of Nokia May 08 14:24:09 I am pretty sure they will fix it in N900 or whatever comes next May 08 14:24:10 * KotCzarny likes ibm thinkpad's keyboard the best May 08 14:24:41 Last time I dropped Thinkpad onto wooden floor, it made a 1/2" deep hole May 08 14:25:07 mine weighs 1.6kg May 08 14:25:10 Heh May 08 14:25:25 No, that one was 4kg one May 08 14:25:26 RST38h, but that means it's been getting worse since the 770, which didn't have all that great of a d-pad IIRC May 08 14:25:41 johnx: it does not have to be great, just usable May 08 14:25:59 right, just pointing out the trend is downward May 08 14:26:01 original n-gage has a nice d-pad May 08 14:26:14 Too much resistance on the dpads May 08 14:26:22 johnx: 770 had better dpad then n810 May 08 14:26:26 I did not used n800 May 08 14:26:27 btw, N810 shares dpad design with E90 and some other recent phones May 08 14:26:36 I guess, E90 should also suck in this aspect May 08 14:26:54 i think optical dpad is the way to go May 08 14:26:57 hi all May 08 14:27:03 hi arif_endro May 08 14:27:14 I could go for a dpad that's like the one on the GP2X F200 May 08 14:27:20 I think ripping off the zaurus wholesale now that sharp canceled them is the way to ho May 08 14:27:30 It's not great, but it's a lot better than the NIT's pads May 08 14:27:33 johnx: hm :) May 08 14:27:44 that'd be interesting May 08 14:28:04 a zaurus-like clamshell with 8GB flash ram, bluetooth, wifi... May 08 14:28:06 let's just wait until the fold-out phone idea resurfaces again at Nokia ;) May 08 14:28:08 800x480 screen May 08 14:28:11 evertime I see my akita and n800 next to each other I start thinking about a transplant...but I wouldn't know where to start May 08 14:28:12 yummy May 08 14:28:22 It does resurface every few years, like some kraken... May 08 14:28:42 johnx, you're so Dr. Frankenstein May 08 14:28:44 and then Nokia employees beat it with oars? May 08 14:28:58 johnx: Basically, helped with network operators May 08 14:29:05 s/with/by/ May 08 14:29:05 RST38h meant: johnx: Basically, helped by network operators May 08 14:29:18 Navi, nah, I *want* to be Dr. Frankenstein but I haven't got the soldering skillz May 08 14:29:23 Lol May 08 14:29:25 :D May 08 14:29:27 *g* May 08 14:29:33 E70 was as close as it gets to a perfect phone, yet died quickly May 08 14:29:34 then get a bigger lightning May 08 14:29:44 Died? May 08 14:29:48 I have an E70 :o May 08 14:29:49 I'm just wondering what maemo means, where it came from how it come up with it... May 08 14:29:51 Same happened with their pre-S60 fold out phones May 08 14:30:00 KotCzarny, I think I got that spam just yesterday... May 08 14:30:01 Navi: Yes, but is it still being offered? May 08 14:30:04 johnx: hm, akita? that's an island :P May 08 14:30:07 No idea May 08 14:30:09 E61 is, but not E70 May 08 14:30:11 I got mine a year ago May 08 14:30:15 aquatix, nope, a dog May 08 14:30:21 also, a Zaurus C1000 May 08 14:30:26 ah :) May 08 14:30:43 You basically have to SEARCH for E70 now. No firmware updates for months. May 08 14:30:52 No OMAP2 upgrade. May 08 14:31:11 Eh May 08 14:31:16 n95 here. best phone i have had so far - except for the dodgy build quality on the volume buttons May 08 14:31:23 I've had the pre S60 fold-out phones too May 08 14:31:25 I love 'em May 08 14:31:27 * aquatix likes his sony ericsson m600i May 08 14:31:33 qwerty ftw May 08 14:32:16 Sony Ericsson W51S, makes calls, runs opera, does 3G May 08 14:32:29 M600i isn't real qwerty. May 08 14:32:45 Nokia 6230: makes calls May 08 14:32:52 until the battery dies ;) May 08 14:33:02 From programming point of view M600i "qwerty" is a freakig nightmare May 08 14:33:04 czr: does not call May 08 14:33:36 RST38h: not real qwerty? May 08 14:33:36 MangoFusion: got one too.. the firmware upgrades really made a difference May 08 14:33:48 aquatix: key scancodes are quite arbitrary May 08 14:33:49 yeah, qwerty sucks May 08 14:34:17 ah, like that May 08 14:34:19 aquatix: they become correct keycodes after some translation when inputing text May 08 14:34:26 was more talking about the physical layout May 08 14:34:28 E70: Makes calls, Runs webkit, does 2.5G, kicks asses May 08 14:34:35 ah, also AGPS, forgot about that one :) May 08 14:34:45 aquatix: but if you are writing a game and want REAL scancodes from qwerty keys, M600i is a world of pain May 08 14:34:48 RST38h: maybe they do some numeral keypad -> realy chars tricks? May 08 14:34:54 interestingly enough when i updated the responsiveness of the camera app plummeted. i.e. took even longer to pop up, sometimes ignored the camera button altogether. and even noticeably skipped frames when recording May 08 14:35:04 aquatix; yea, they have a translation layer, like Nokia does in E61 May 08 14:35:14 (though i think that was in part due to a corrupted memory card) May 08 14:35:17 aquatix: but the one in SE phone has to translate a lot more keys May 08 14:35:32 hm May 08 14:35:43 haven't tried programming for it yet May 08 14:35:50 Navi: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone ;) May 08 14:35:56 i'm more interested in programming for my tablet May 08 14:36:08 RST38h: *g* May 08 14:36:11 aquatix: Can't sell tablet apps. CAN sell Symbian apps May 08 14:36:14 I read maddox every once in a while May 08 14:36:22 RST38h: true May 08 14:36:32 I've read that article May 08 14:36:38 still, i won't do it for money May 08 14:36:41 aquatix: and it isn't as scary as it looks May 08 14:36:42 just for fun May 08 14:37:00 i want the uiq3 putty source though :/ May 08 14:37:09 the guy that ported it, abandoned it May 08 14:37:15 and now it can't be updated May 08 14:37:22 isn't it available? May 08 14:37:32 nope May 08 14:37:35 only a binary May 08 14:37:55 or i'm stupid and it's in the main repository May 08 14:37:58 where i didn't look yet May 08 14:38:02 a moment May 08 14:38:07 is flash lite any good for dev? May 08 14:38:37 http://sourceforge.net/projects/s2putty/ May 08 14:38:39 Enjoy May 08 14:41:08 RST38h: erm, isn't that series 60/80 only? May 08 14:41:15 * aquatix tries to find the repository May 08 14:41:25 They say UIQ port is available so I guess it should be both May 08 14:44:37 am i too tired or isn't there an svn repository available on sf? May 08 14:44:42 * aquatix finds a source .zip May 08 14:45:23 RST38h: you mean ``PuTTY for UIQ: See the ports by Robert Horvath, MobilEyes AB, and Taneli Leppä'' <- the latter is the one that ported to uiq3 May 08 14:45:30 but only put a binary online May 08 14:45:49 and doesn't maintain it for a while already May 08 14:47:17 aquatix: Oh :( May 08 14:47:26 Why can't you port to UIQ the S60 version? May 08 14:47:34 It isn't very complicated May 08 14:47:55 myeah, that's a possibility May 08 14:48:05 but that Taneli guy already did it May 08 14:48:24 Well, Taneli guy hid his source under the bed and went fishing May 08 14:48:25 and as i didn't program anything for symbian yet, i thought it a nice starting point May 08 14:48:29 indeed May 08 14:48:40 A moment, I will give you a better starting point May 08 14:48:52 didn't react on my query through his site too May 08 14:48:55 k :) May 08 14:49:15 the big white probably ate him while fishing May 08 14:49:49 :) May 08 14:50:38 aquatix: in plain English: http://developer.uiq.com/downloads/public/Taskalavista_S60_to_UIQ3.zip May 08 14:51:19 cool, thanks May 08 14:51:20 Links: http://developer.uiq.com/forum/entry.jspa?externalID=124 May 08 14:56:08 RST38h: the latter link is nice too, thanks May 08 14:56:20 any idea whether the sdk works under wine or something? May 08 14:56:39 I suggest proper Windows May 08 14:56:48 Both S60 and UIQ sdks are GCC based though May 08 14:56:55 GCCE to be exact May 08 14:57:14 hm, i might need to install a vm then May 08 14:57:21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiHtUFuGgSA May 08 14:57:22 arrrgh May 08 14:57:23 You do not have a Windows machine? May 08 14:57:25 i have a license laying around May 08 14:57:28 RST38h: nope May 08 14:57:35 only linux May 08 14:57:38 Try Wine then - there is nothing special in the SDK May 08 14:57:48 yeah, i'll try that first May 08 14:57:53 Just ignore their "phone simulator" - it is garbage May 08 14:58:00 debug on a real devicew May 08 14:58:03 can always install something in virtual box or something May 08 14:58:07 kk, thanks May 08 14:58:30 time to bork my m600 ;) May 08 14:58:45 you won't bork it but be prepared for reboots May 08 14:58:53 heheh, yeah May 08 14:58:59 otherwise it is pretty tough little system May 08 14:59:07 indeed is May 08 14:59:17 only times i reboot is when i ran the battery totally flat May 08 15:00:42 hardware wise it is identical to N8x0, more or less May 08 15:01:05 has got a GSM chip of course May 08 15:01:27 oh? May 08 15:01:51 dont forget it;s a phone :) May 08 15:02:10 hah May 08 15:02:20 was refering to the similarity May 08 15:02:34 didn't know it was that similar May 08 15:02:37 the N8x0 was born out of Nokia's parts bin :) May 08 15:02:56 johnx: myeah, the 770 even more so :) May 08 15:03:09 m600 is a sony ericsson phone tough May 08 15:03:14 too bad they ran out of good d-pads and those nifty covers :/ May 08 15:03:18 They are both born from TI's OMAP reference designs May 08 15:03:30 RST38h: ah, k May 08 15:03:36 didn't know that about my phone May 08 15:03:43 And the reference design is basically like a "PC AT" thing May 08 15:03:51 heh :) May 08 15:03:54 crap, gotta run May 08 15:03:59 It tells you more or less everything May 08 15:04:01 did they use the same processor? May 08 15:04:04 RST38h: thanks for your links and such :) May 08 15:04:12 m600 is a 200MHz proc May 08 15:04:16 arif: Same SoCs May 08 15:04:18 but also omap i guess May 08 15:04:31 anyways, catch you all later May 08 15:04:37 M600i is IMAP850 May 08 15:04:44 OMAP850, aka OMAP1 May 08 15:04:54 ah May 08 15:04:59 No, it's totally OMAP8 May 08 15:05:00 Same as N770, E70, E61, etc May 08 15:05:46 omweather updated to work yet? May 08 15:06:00 not yet May 08 15:06:08 mmk May 08 15:06:15 Navi, use the source! May 08 15:06:27 What? Use the force?! May 08 15:06:27 "Firefox Vietnamese Language Pack Infected With Trojan" May 08 15:06:37 grrr May 08 15:06:41 that's no good May 08 15:06:44 McCain isn't a president yet, but He already infects language packs! =) May 08 15:06:59 Vietnamese ones to boot May 08 15:07:03 Gettin' his revenge on May 08 15:07:17 Otherwise I would blame it on somebody else! May 08 15:07:27 Navi, change the URL, recompile, it's on the thread in ITT, or grab the patched binary May 08 15:07:33 mmk May 08 15:07:54 I'll look into that after I'm done with the rss feed app May 08 15:08:51 I have had my file manager segfault for weeks, whatever component tries to browse the filesystem (like for opening or saving a file) segfaults too, can I do anything other than a clean reflash? (don't want to reinstall EVERYTHING YET AGAIN) May 08 15:09:03 Heh May 08 15:09:47 I used the updated binary with OMWeather. It's still not acting 100% correctly. It's doing some odd things with the last day of the week. May 08 15:10:10 shackan, did it happen around the time you installed an app? May 08 15:10:14 ZOMG EETZ A VIRUS May 08 15:10:22 We need a virus scanner May 08 15:10:31 liquid217, other people seem to be having similar problems May 08 15:10:32 I GUESS THAT MEANWHILE GUY WAS RIGHT!!! May 08 15:10:45 johnx, build Norton Antivirus, quick! May 08 15:10:46 MAEMO IS INSECURE! RUN FOR THE HILLS! May 08 15:10:55 * johnx lives in the hills May 08 15:11:00 help what do *I* do?! May 08 15:11:03 ohshi- May 08 15:11:05 * shackan TOO !!!!! May 08 15:11:06 johnx: then run off the hills May 08 15:11:14 * johnx runs May 08 15:11:18 all right, going home May 08 15:11:19 RST38h, lolirl May 08 15:11:28 ...as soon as this compile finishes May 08 15:11:34 3-day weekend is nice May 08 15:11:43 RST38h, indeed it is May 08 15:11:49 johnx: I installed a bunch of things, like the mypaint and numpty, I'd like to track the problem down, but without strace or anything like that.. no luck May 08 15:12:26 well...strace is available May 08 15:12:47 as is ltrace May 08 15:12:54 if it is, I can't install it because apt-get craps out May 08 15:13:02 apt-get is broken too? May 08 15:13:06 zomg May 08 15:13:09 borkened May 08 15:13:17 this seems like a bigger problem than just file manager :) May 08 15:13:25 well, apparently there's a broken package which is half installed May 08 15:13:27 clinkc0 May 08 15:14:06 and if I a-g -f install it asks me if I really want to install it, I say yes, but it does nothing (ie: a-g quits) May 08 15:14:23 O_o May 08 15:14:37 dpkg --purge ? May 08 15:14:52 let's try May 08 15:16:12 dependency problems prevent clinkc0 from being remove May 08 15:16:13 *d May 08 15:16:36 alright, what depends on it? May 08 15:17:30 osso-software-version maemo-launcher libfarsight osso-connectivity clinkc-av0 May 08 15:17:41 rtcomm beta installed ? May 08 15:17:56 mm, no May 08 15:18:02 got rid of that months ago May 08 15:18:11 (ie: before this problem) May 08 15:18:15 aaah...so you had it installed and removed it? May 08 15:18:22 or reflashed? May 08 15:18:38 removed it, haven't reflashed in months May 08 15:18:46 (waiting for diablo) May 08 15:19:15 I wonder how it ended up half installed then... May 08 15:19:21 me too May 08 15:19:55 sigh May 08 15:20:03 well, just unpack strace from the deb and use it May 08 15:20:13 won't mess up anything else at this point May 08 15:20:14 sometimes I also have a touchscreen sensitivity issue May 08 15:20:17 don't even unpack it in root May 08 15:21:02 for instance, I click somewhere in the middle of the screen, the click appears on the far left (the application bar) May 08 15:21:15 touchscreen fun May 08 15:21:29 well, happens rarely, but it does happen May 08 15:21:30 happens on mine n800 too May 08 15:22:01 http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/bugs-ts1-800.jpg May 08 15:22:27 wonder if it has to do with hours of pressure after I kept if for a whole night it under the pillow May 08 15:22:46 i bet on some design issue May 08 15:22:49 uhmm May 08 15:23:18 but it didn't use to do that May 08 15:23:48 it usually happens to me when i touch it very gently May 08 15:23:49 I've always thought it was related to heat, but I was never sure... May 08 15:23:54 no probem when dragging hard May 08 15:24:22 *problem May 08 15:25:16 i first noticed it when clicking in control panel sometimes opened menus on the left May 08 15:25:23 right May 08 15:25:32 so it's usually misread x pos May 08 15:25:51 yup, y is fine May 08 15:31:42 is internettabletalk donw? May 08 15:31:45 *down May 08 15:31:49 is for me May 08 15:32:48 anyone know if theres been an update to omweather to deal with weather.com changing their rss feed May 08 15:33:11 Ed Bartosh says that Vlad is on a vacation yet. May 08 15:33:28 ahh May 08 15:33:31 magicrobotmonkey, there's some fix on the garage page for omweather I believe? May 08 15:33:37 contributed by a user May 08 15:33:40 im looking May 08 15:35:24 https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2528&group_id=93&atid=417 May 08 15:36:20 thx May 08 15:39:52 ifconfig May 08 15:40:00 woops wrong window May 08 15:40:57 irc0: Hardware Address: 00:DE:AD:BE:EF:00 IP Address: 1.3.3.7 May 08 15:43:14 I prefer mac address of my router ;) May 08 15:43:28 C0:FF:EE:C0:FF:EE May 08 15:44:23 H0:T_:C0:FF:EE May 08 15:44:29 fail :( :p May 08 15:44:37 :) May 08 15:44:55 try DE:CA:F0 May 08 15:45:18 Lol, all these are m00t for me as I don't drink tea or coffee :p May 08 15:45:29 tea is good May 08 15:45:37 green tea to be specific May 08 15:45:58 heh May 08 15:46:42 Hehe, I could never bring myself to drink leaves with hot water May 08 15:47:00 ever ate meat? May 08 15:47:12 Yes May 08 15:47:17 ;) May 08 15:47:34 do you know it's animal's pieces? May 08 15:47:42 o_0 May 08 15:47:47 Obviously ;) :P May 08 15:48:13 eeeeeew May 08 15:48:29 KotCzarny: do you know that tea has feelings too? and you masacre it with hot water... May 08 15:48:30 i prefer leaves in hot water May 08 15:48:31 :) May 08 15:48:49 Lol May 08 15:51:43 qwerty12, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3142 <- vote! vote! May 08 15:52:15 re May 08 15:52:18 Navi, doing so now lol :) May 08 15:52:28 what is the best guide to boot from SD ? May 08 15:52:56 www.BootFromSDin3EasySteps.com May 08 15:53:29 Lol May 08 15:54:01 * qwerty12 creates bugzilla account. I thought my garage one would work :/ May 08 15:54:08 :/ May 08 15:55:11 I voted :) May 08 15:55:15 Woo May 08 15:55:17 qwerty12: Nope, we haven't been able to hook that one into garage.. May 08 15:55:22 I voted to ban Navi May 08 15:55:26 lol May 08 15:55:27 Snaps May 08 15:55:27 vote with your wallet? May 08 15:55:40 3 steps are too much : May 08 15:55:46 I vote to shower Proteous with love and joy May 08 15:55:46 lol May 08 15:55:48 X-Fade_, Ah, well, no problems :). It only took me 5 mins to make a account :) May 08 15:55:54 * Proteous feels the love May 08 15:56:06 l0cutus: ok, here's an upgraded version: 1/ find someone to do it for you May 08 15:56:33 Guess who ran out of bandwidth? May 08 15:56:39 \o/ May 08 15:56:49 wow, thanks ! (better if you come here to make the work for me :) May 08 15:56:52 Navi, Wow, your microb svn? May 08 15:56:55 \o\ |o| /o/ May 08 15:57:11 \o\ May 08 15:57:12 /o/ May 08 15:57:15 qwerty12, technically, I'm out May 08 15:57:18 I don't have that much May 08 15:57:19 \o/ May 08 15:57:29 Ah :( May 08 15:57:29 but there isn't a cap if I don't tell my buddy that I'm out of bandwidth. May 08 15:57:54 give us the address, we will do it for you May 08 15:58:09 Someone's mirroring already May 08 15:59:29 google probably May 08 16:04:49 this seems to be ok : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15788 May 08 16:06:40 Weird May 08 16:06:50 I can't chat with anyone on MSN using rtcomm May 08 16:07:22 wow that was quick May 08 16:09:19 administ? May 08 16:09:20 O.o May 08 16:09:38 ad-minister? May 08 16:10:49 woo, personal menu update May 08 16:11:49 administrator? That's my password. Oh no, it's blank. May 08 16:12:30 My password is ********** May 08 16:12:35 sweet! May 08 16:12:39 what's a password? May 08 16:12:58 That way, people are confused when I accidentally type it into the channel May 08 16:13:11 Does anyone know if the mpd port for maemo has any special source (no odd pun or the like intended) or does a straight recompile work? I need the headers for something. May 08 16:13:25 Probably a straight compile May 08 16:13:30 it's about half a year outdated too May 08 16:13:38 Hehe, thanks May 08 16:14:25 wow mpd on the tablet, thats sweet May 08 16:14:33 Where have you been? :p May 08 16:14:37 heh May 08 16:14:45 theres too much to pay attention too May 08 16:15:00 what about sshfs? May 08 16:15:06 Yep, by solmumaha May 08 16:15:15 thats what im waiting for, so when im home i can mount my music collection May 08 16:15:37 sshfs is a straight compile May 08 16:15:52 just grab the archive and unpack to / May 08 16:15:58 damn i gotta get on that May 08 16:16:21 ever used sdk? May 08 16:16:28 what is the command to keep the screen from dimming (turning off)? May 08 16:16:47 Grab moredimmingoptions and set the timeout to 24h May 08 16:16:51 You need a command? May 08 16:16:53 Or edit gconf yourself. May 08 16:17:33 de regreso del servicio técnico con su router May 08 16:17:47 thanks! May 08 16:19:01 I'm about to build the pengest mpd ever: http://pastebin.com/d18ce6b09 :P (I only need it for header files and the like :P) May 08 16:20:38 heh May 08 16:20:41 only wav support May 08 16:21:09 You know you want it :p May 08 16:22:14 sez u May 08 16:22:33 of course :p May 08 16:23:07 My buddy needs to give me ssh access May 08 16:23:37 I can't deal with Apache dieing and not being able to restart it anymore May 08 16:24:06 Go to the server and fire some shots from a glock into it for being a lazy crap :p May 08 16:24:24 maybe he found out about your dirty big bandwidth excess :P May 08 16:24:36 Nah, his entire VPS is down. May 08 16:24:48 maybe he is blocking your ip May 08 16:24:50 ;) May 08 16:24:58 The real WTF is using apache instead of lightweight servers. *hides* May 08 16:25:06 Note: Don't use Bluehost if you value uptime. May 08 16:25:20 I don't, sounds great! May 08 16:25:25 my wrt54g has ~60d of uptime already May 08 16:25:43 and it was because i pulled the wrong plug when moving my laptop May 08 16:25:44 :) May 08 16:27:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lick_me_in_the_ass May 08 16:27:26 lol May 08 16:28:00 lmao, I thought all these composers were boring pooms :p May 08 16:28:19 yeah, I mean, they're always dressed so formally May 08 16:28:41 no, it's those 'political/family correctness guys' that are boring May 08 16:28:49 artist are usually hip May 08 16:28:58 *artists May 08 16:31:03 back May 08 16:31:25 Awesome May 08 16:31:30 no more personal menu crashes May 08 16:31:45 it crashed? May 08 16:32:01 never noticed May 08 16:32:02 :) May 08 16:32:11 Yeah, when adding apps sometimes May 08 16:34:50 Ok, I'm using Penguinbaits easy install KDE (where it makes 2 image files on the mmc), I don't want to do mmc boot. But I can't connect my N800 via usb even when kde is closed, so is there any way I can unmount the images? May 08 16:35:28 umount -d /mount/point May 08 16:35:32 umount /dev/loop0? May 08 16:35:43 Thanks, I'll try it out. May 08 16:36:23 type mount alone to see what's mounted May 08 16:37:10 Capn_Fish is right, /dev/loop0 is mounted but when I unmount as root, it says it is busy :/ May 08 16:37:31 close the apps, terms May 08 16:38:08 I did lsof on it, I need to close down xrdp and x11vnc, but some libraries are running of it :/. Just have to hope for the best. May 08 16:39:54 Hehe, penguinbait really needs to understand the function of the stop function in init scripts :p May 08 16:44:17 Goddam, hildon-desktop sux. I just disabled all my applets and the thing crashes >.> May 08 16:44:47 kill it again and you get them back May 08 16:45:03 Nah, I wanted to disable it to test a little something I compiled :) May 08 16:55:07 For everybody missing OMWeather: May 08 16:55:23 Vlad is currently hiking and will be back in <=20 days May 08 16:55:34 johnx mentioned a unofficial fix before :) May 08 16:55:58 vlad the impaler? May 08 16:55:59 O.o May 08 16:57:18 Vlad The Weatherman May 08 16:57:51 Makin it rain on dem ***z May 08 16:59:15 Ok, anyone know which package the command fold is part of? May 08 17:00:44 Ah, coreutils. May 08 17:27:32 <_berto_> solmumaha: are you there? May 08 17:31:42 Could somebody put this into topic: May 08 17:31:43 http://n8xx.com/uploads.php?file=omweather_0.20.1.Wall_armel.deb May 08 17:46:06 _berto_: yes May 08 17:46:10 I'm trying to compile myself omweather, but ./configure complains about lacking liblocation May 08 17:46:21 what package needs to be installed? May 08 17:49:30 <_berto_> solmumaha: did you want to translate vagalume into finnish? May 08 17:49:52 <_berto_> we're releasing on monday or so May 08 17:50:04 what can I do against the message "Application [...] did not provide valid .desktop file"? May 08 17:50:34 my application has everything in place (icon in /usr/share/pixmaps and /usr/share/icons/hicolor), a valid desktop file and all May 08 17:51:32 _berto_: i could, but it may not be perfect May 08 17:51:43 i did look at it, not too many strings May 08 17:51:56 <_berto_> I added some more this week, but the file is still very short May 08 17:52:04 _berto_: are you alberto garcia? May 08 17:52:27 <_berto_> /whois _berto_ May 08 17:52:29 <_berto_> :) May 08 17:52:33 <_berto_> (yes, I am) May 08 17:52:45 :) May 08 17:53:18 <_berto_> you were working on the wii remote control, weren't you? May 08 17:53:29 Yes, it was me :-) May 08 17:53:43 I changed the mechanism for controlling the tablet from the wiimote May 08 17:53:45 <_berto_> the dbus methods are ready May 08 17:54:01 oh thanks! May 08 17:54:17 but now my remote control does not require dbus support May 08 17:54:26 it generates fake x-window events May 08 17:54:32 and this makes it much more general May 08 17:54:45 however, it requires the application to be controlled to be in foreground May 08 17:55:01 so I'm still in doubt about wheter use dbus or not May 08 17:55:05 <_berto_> ah May 08 17:55:30 in principle, the mapping from wiimote buttons to actions into the tablet is very configurable May 08 17:55:41 <_berto_> great May 08 17:56:18 <_berto_> solmumaha: if you want to translate the file wait 'til I update it first :) May 08 17:56:30 <_berto_> if not, no problem :) May 08 17:58:03 sure, but don't tell anyone it's from me May 08 17:59:02 Does anyone have libreadline-ruby? I'm trying to get the source and build it but not having any luck. May 08 18:02:13 re May 08 18:22:43 Anyone reading Planet Maemo via Google Reader? The past couple of days I've it's just been showing me raw HTML for posts, but only for those from the PM feed. May 08 18:23:08 It's been working just fine for me May 08 18:23:21 me too May 08 18:25:12 dolske: Are you using the atom feed or the rss2.0? May 08 18:25:40 hmm, just whatever's been working for months. /me checks... May 08 18:26:34 atom... http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/atom.xml May 08 18:27:34 Try changing that to rss.xml . May 08 18:27:44 See if that makes a difference. May 08 18:27:58 yeah, the rss2 feed seems to work. May 08 18:28:07 stupid feeds. :/ May 08 18:28:31 Hmm there was an update in the feed software yesterday. May 08 18:29:15 dolske: Did you have that problem before yesterday around this time? May 08 18:29:50 I'm not entirely sure when it started. It's within the last day or two, though. May 08 18:33:41 dolske: It seems the server reports the wrong encoding. May 08 18:33:48 I'll look into it. May 08 18:34:00 yeah, that would do it. May 08 18:34:26 it seems to default to US_ASCII where it should do UTF-8. May 08 18:42:20 oh, encoding? I was thinking content type. I'd expect ascii vs utf8 to just result in some occasional garbage characters... then again, feeds are picky about all kinds of weird stuff. May 08 18:43:08 no, it should send encoding utf-8 with the mime type. May 08 18:44:15 Yay!(?) Now I got a coredump. bme_RX-34-6-349.core May 08 18:47:15 what RX stands for? May 08 18:47:38 as in rx-44, or in the name of the .bin flash images May 08 18:47:39 I think it is just architecture May 08 18:49:24 RX-34 = N800, RX-44 = N810 May 08 18:49:32 SU-18 = 770 May 08 18:50:03 that still doesn't tell you what RX stands for :) May 08 18:50:40 * qwerty12_N800 loves conky with mpd. I finally got round to removing libgtkmozembed from status file. May 08 18:55:25 balrog, no, it doesn't, but it tells, what RX-44 means May 08 18:58:21 Test May 08 19:00:32 Fail May 08 19:01:06 This irc channel is set to blow in case of failure May 08 19:06:05 the risk is that RX doesn't mean anything May 08 19:06:19 maybe it sounds like "rex" if you read it quickly May 08 19:06:20 Let us see if using xchat-maemo with bt keyboard is comfortable enough May 08 19:06:34 which is not very meaningful either May 08 19:06:43 Feels ok although there is noticeable lag May 08 19:10:13 is there any chance that I will be able to use the N800 webcam via flash on websites once Diablo is out? May 08 19:10:58 It's a flash problem in general,, it's not nokia's fault May 08 19:11:18 WoW: Unlikely May 08 19:11:28 Someone needs to do a working port of flashcam, I tried and failed May 08 19:14:14 Has anyone tried it in Minefield yet? May 08 19:14:43 Aa May 08 19:14:58 Aa? May 08 19:15:18 aah May 08 19:15:23 lol..oh May 08 19:15:57 I'll try it then. May 08 19:16:17 i was joking :p :) May 08 19:17:30 i'm dense qwerty12_N800 draw me a map. what were you joking about? May 08 19:18:14 about the aah thing, I'm as confused as you are May 08 19:19:17 lol...it's nice here huh? May 08 19:19:29 confusion cafe I mean May 08 19:19:34 Why does it lag so much? =(] May 08 19:19:35 :D May 08 19:19:43 lol :D May 08 19:23:20 the bluetooth packets are carried by little invisible ants to your tablet May 08 19:24:45 are you using an igo stowaway? May 08 19:24:53 thinking about getting one May 08 19:25:02 Looks like these ants are on drugs May 08 19:25:13 Using Apple BT kbd May 08 19:25:36 Really nice, except for a little dent on the aluminium casing that was there when I unpacked it May 08 19:25:55 oic May 08 19:29:16 I think it is prediction that makes it slow May 08 19:32:57 RST38h, it might be, ive got identical apple bt keyboard (i think, the mini one) i get no noticable lag, though occasionally it will repeat a string of letters. May 08 19:33:07 No, prediction is not to blame. And I moved Cell phone to a different room, so it is not interfering. May 08 19:33:22 Weird May 08 19:33:34 its like it stutters when cpu gets busy on the device - normally im just typing and it will gggggo loads even though i dont type for longer May 08 19:41:15 Plugged in bt headphones. Let us see if it stutters.... May 08 19:41:27 Well, headphones stutter but not the keyboard =0 May 08 19:48:20 hey May 08 19:48:27 so how often do you all find yourselves rebooting your n810? May 08 19:48:43 Now, this feels much faster May 08 19:48:48 :D May 08 19:48:53 i did today for omweather, it was the first time it at least a few weeks May 08 19:49:01 It looks like Pidgin was the main problem - it does not like too much text May 08 19:49:11 omweather was giving me trouble this week May 08 19:49:40 yea, weather.com changed their rss feed url or something May 08 19:49:58 i find a bunch of flash on the web makes it act sluggish for a while May 08 19:50:06 magicrobotmonkey: is it working again May 08 19:50:16 yea May 08 19:50:17 i actually turned it off May 08 19:50:19 k May 08 19:51:07 on a plane, you can probably use it in offline mode, right? May 08 19:51:23 i would hope so May 08 19:51:27 you can use laptops May 08 19:54:30 You can even use phones, just don't show them off May 08 19:54:47 heh May 08 19:54:59 so i hear May 08 19:55:17 i watched somebody live stream takeoff via evdo May 08 19:55:27 The "interference with avionics" is mostly a myth not supported by evidence May 08 19:55:47 i hear it was a ploblem with OLD phones, but not newer ones May 08 19:58:04 omweather still hates me May 08 19:59:03 i heard it was a potential risk and confirming it or rejecting would take some expensive experiments and time, May 08 20:00:06 so the first airlines prohibited phones on board and other followed, now some of the more expensive airlines have done the tests and allow cell phones, but the results can't be reused by all airlines immediately May 08 20:09:17 The idea is not to let passengers use phones. The idea is to charge them money for it! May 08 20:11:57 grrrrrrrr May 08 20:12:27 and spy on them! May 08 20:12:37 still can't get the weather to work May 08 20:28:40 ralann, have you tried doing a raindance? May 08 20:28:52 heh May 08 20:29:05 weather says i have an invalid location May 08 20:29:22 last i chacked i was on earth May 08 20:29:50 not that i disbelieve you, but can you back up that statement? May 08 20:30:07 mmmm, no May 08 20:30:33 therefore if you cannot confirm you are on earth how the heck is the computer meant to suss it out for you? May 08 20:30:41 i dunno May 08 20:30:59 ralann: have you downloaded new package from 8xx.com? May 08 20:31:19 ralann: you have to install updated omweather May 08 20:31:38 It is available from http://n8xx.com/message-10046.html May 08 20:31:47 Download, install, reboot, enjoy May 08 20:35:39 thx, no wonder i didn't find it... i don't speak russian May 08 20:36:28 it's ok, just download the .deb May 08 20:36:37 ignore the rest May 08 20:37:48 http://translate.google.com/ is my friend May 08 20:38:14 Friends like these can be treacherous May 08 20:38:31 yes May 08 20:39:32 hi there May 08 20:39:36 hi May 08 20:39:43 anyone know about ubuntu at n800? May 08 20:39:52 iam searching for the flash image May 08 20:41:30 Silicum: Continue searching, man! May 08 20:41:44 search and destroy! May 08 20:41:50 Image is nothing. Thirst is everything! May 08 20:43:39 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2097004728.html May 08 20:43:54 thx May 08 20:44:07 dunno if it's right May 08 20:44:11 lol May 08 20:45:43 Silicium: found an image? May 08 20:45:47 nope May 08 20:45:48 * flo_lap gave up May 08 20:45:52 doesnt exist :) May 08 20:46:06 so there are only a few packages already ported May 08 20:46:11 probably someone found and destroyed already May 08 20:46:27 so i need to compile it from scrapt May 08 20:46:29 scratch May 08 20:46:35 err from repository May 08 20:46:41 compile from scrap, not bad May 08 20:46:42 :) May 08 20:46:46 :D May 08 20:47:43 sounds like a plan! May 08 20:48:08 green software? May 08 20:48:14 (ie. recycled) May 08 20:48:28 what you can do is, boot maemo, install a new bootloader and then chroot the ubuntu on a mmc card May 08 20:48:36 so is a lot of work May 08 20:48:44 is it? May 08 20:48:52 gnit May 08 20:48:56 i'm booting from mmc already May 08 20:49:04 thats no problem May 08 20:49:04 and it wasn't much of a work May 08 20:49:18 the problem is, build ubuntu from scratch May 08 20:49:42 maybe try #ubuntu-mobile May 08 20:49:55 there is a way of having midi music in scummvm? in particular for "The secret of Monkey Island" May 08 20:50:21 mhm May 08 20:50:22 I can hear the sound effects but not the music May 08 20:50:26 probably not defaulty May 08 20:50:34 You should definitely get a computing farm made of N810s for this May 08 20:51:07 a mobile cluster May 08 20:51:08 jldiaz: you need rosegarden or equal May 08 20:51:11 That is what Canonical uses to compile Ubuntu for Nokia. May 08 20:51:22 lol :D May 08 20:51:25 heh May 08 20:51:44 i want to run OpenBSD on it May 08 20:51:46 Silicium: timidity? there is a maemon port? May 08 20:51:54 But look at the bright side: after all this trouble you will get a really free operating system, free like Richard Stallman! May 08 20:52:06 i think i have compiled timidity May 08 20:52:16 don't remember if it was working though, probably yes May 08 20:52:17 RST38bis: ubuntu is shithole May 08 20:52:30 Debian or Gentoo are free May 08 20:52:31 eh? May 08 20:52:42 ubuntu is a commercial fork May 08 20:52:43 Ah, that way...Yes, definitely May 08 20:52:58 oh, btw, I was trying to compile myself omweather May 08 20:53:01 with many properitary drivers on it May 08 20:53:07 Compile HURD then - real Gnu OS May 08 20:53:16 hurd on N800 May 08 20:53:17 :D May 08 20:53:30 jldiaz: scroll up, find n8xx.com address, download from there, install, reboot, enjoy May 08 20:53:31 maybe i will install for playing Duke Nukem Forever May 08 20:53:36 jldiaz: which version of monkey island ? i have music on version 3 May 08 20:53:53 jldiaz: the forum is in russian, so just look for the link to a deb file May 08 20:53:59 but configure complains about liblocation May 08 20:54:25 * RST38bis read "configure complains about lubrication" and wondered. May 08 20:54:53 NullM0dem: version 1. I also have music in other games May 08 20:54:53 heh May 08 20:55:07 heh May 08 20:55:20 heh May 08 20:56:06 I cant find any liblocation package, though May 08 20:56:08 jldiaz: The versions i use have the sountracks in mp3 May 08 20:56:40 cd version then May 08 20:56:48 yes May 08 20:57:09 i think timidity will convert midi to mp3 May 08 20:57:25 as 1 did not have a cd version if i remember right May 08 20:58:00 anyway, thx for the help May 08 21:20:53 Hello, I just found that N810 has a built-in DSP. Is there any docs on it? May 08 21:21:04 yes May 08 21:21:14 don't remember the links though May 08 21:21:21 there is compiler for sure May 08 21:25:58 * lcuk comes up for air May 08 21:26:24 air? May 08 21:26:46 yer, ive been in my shed for too long May 08 21:26:57 underwater basket weaving May 08 21:27:02 :) May 08 21:27:27 lcuk: install some air ducts? May 08 21:27:28 :) May 08 21:28:09 not quite: shed = vmware installation with anjuta and gcc :) May 08 21:28:16 :) May 08 21:28:19 i know, i know May 08 21:28:35 :P May 08 21:29:31 i keep seeing glints of niceness with my code May 08 21:30:51 * lcuk has a target May 08 21:31:06 armel ? May 08 21:31:07 :) May 08 21:31:19 lol :D May 08 21:31:53 im going on holiday in 1 weeks time. in that week the only computer i will have will be my 810 May 08 21:31:58 i must have an editor i feel comfortable with in that time May 08 21:32:12 and i know only 1 way to get me that May 08 21:32:28 :) May 08 21:32:51 Builtin keyboard? May 08 21:33:19 by hook or by crook i will be selecting files and opening them in my base May 08 21:33:29 no rst, i will have bt May 08 21:33:44 :) May 08 21:34:26 i finished the font rotating code as well i think May 08 21:39:48 тест May 08 21:40:03 fail May 08 21:40:04 hehe it works! May 08 21:40:57 * RST38bis did not expect xchat to support unicode May 08 21:41:42 that was unicode? May 08 21:41:56 looked more like cyrillic May 08 21:42:20 it must have been if you could read it May 08 21:42:51 nope, i wasn't able May 08 21:43:08 it all showed up in weird chars May 08 21:43:27 the ones that usually are abused by russian folks May 08 21:43:28 :) May 08 21:44:45 why did you answer failmthen? =) May 08 21:45:08 because i wasn't able to read it :) May 08 21:46:25 did it show as TECT? May 08 21:46:32 nope May 08 21:46:44 but i don't have utf enabled client May 08 21:46:51 oh May 08 21:46:51 so i only see latin2 May 08 21:47:25 i wonder what happens if i turn utf off... May 08 21:48:10 if you want to see if it worked fire up some java irc client May 08 21:48:11 :) May 08 21:48:43 java? kill! May 08 21:48:57 if it's only for a test? May 08 21:48:58 :) May 08 21:49:18 and you will gain certainity May 08 21:55:31 hm, doesn't look like xchat has option to disable utf May 08 21:57:39 ttg May 08 22:02:44 java chars are ucs-2 May 08 22:04:02 which has no support for the whole unicode spcefication, only for the basic multilingual plane (64K symbols) May 08 22:04:38 should do for russian May 08 22:04:50 yep :) May 08 22:06:17 btw, utf8 is not properly implemented in osso-xterm (or perhaps it is busybox fault?) May 08 22:06:58 if you input in the shell a multibyte char and then delete it, only the last byte is deleted May 08 22:07:19 which result in a malformed unicode char May 08 22:07:42 usually displayed as a ? in a diamond May 08 22:25:44 what would cause my n810 to reboot? May 08 22:25:54 watchdog May 08 22:25:59 overheat? May 08 22:26:01 bad electronics May 08 22:26:12 hrm May 08 22:26:15 bad software too May 08 22:26:40 my web browser has been crashing randomly as well May 08 22:26:54 guess i need to reflash May 08 22:26:56 NullM0dem, something crashed that the watchdogs watch over and they restarted the device May 08 22:27:03 Say, Xomap or somesuch May 08 22:27:09 camera app May 08 22:27:16 yeah May 08 22:27:23 camera interface can be offending May 08 22:27:34 i have noticed it can hung the sys May 08 22:27:35 i bet May 08 22:27:41 (accessing /dev/video0) May 08 22:27:49 *hang May 08 22:28:45 i love it regardless :-) May 09 00:27:00 has something changed in the repositorys? I'm having trouble installing the maemo-sdk May 09 00:30:07 hmm.. forget it.. I think the topic answered allready :P May 09 00:38:44 well.. not really :P **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 09 02:59:56 2008