**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 15 02:59:56 2008
May 15 03:07:43 * Grackle considers taking apart his n770 (which now no longer has a purpose) and hacking it into something, with a USB keyboard and lots of battery and IO
May 15 03:07:55 <Grackle> s/now //
May 15 03:09:15 <Grackle> I have a pretty nice project box that it could fit in.
May 15 03:09:28 <GeneralAntilles> What's an N770?
May 15 03:09:38 <johnx> a Nokia770 I assume
May 15 03:09:45 <Grackle> sorry nitpicker, a 770
May 15 03:09:46 <johnx> Grackle, use it as a remote :)
May 15 03:09:48 <GeneralAntilles> :P
May 15 03:09:50 <Navi> GeneralAntilles, it's the next generation N series phone
May 15 03:10:02 <GeneralAntilles> 770 makes an awesome media remote/ebook reader.
May 15 03:10:09 <johnx> Grackle, or put Debian on it :D
May 15 03:10:11 <GeneralAntilles> Plug it in next to the couch or bed or something.
May 15 03:10:17 <johnx> do you have a 1GB RS-MMC?
May 15 03:10:25 <GeneralAntilles> Actually, the 770 is probably the BEST ebook reader.
May 15 03:10:34 <Grackle> Only one, and that's in my n800
May 15 03:10:34 <Navi> Lies
May 15 03:10:50 <Grackle> What? I'd definitely take a kindle over anything else.
May 15 03:11:01 <GeneralAntilles> Pfft
May 15 03:11:03 <Grackle> That tiny LCD screen is hell on my eyes at night
May 15 03:11:04 <GeneralAntilles> Kindle doesn't fit in your pocket.
May 15 03:11:06 <Navi> Hehe
May 15 03:11:15 <GeneralAntilles> The NIT screens are great for reading.
May 15 03:11:16 <Navi> But it's easier on the eyes :P
May 15 03:11:30 <Grackle> What's easier on the eyes?
May 15 03:11:40 <GeneralAntilles> Kindle also doesn't have a backlight
May 15 03:11:41 <johnx> it
May 15 03:11:45 <GeneralAntilles> So you can't read in the dark.
May 15 03:11:54 <Grackle> I don't want to read in the dark
May 15 03:12:07 <Grackle> staring at brightly lit things in the dark is hell for your eyes
May 15 03:12:08 <KotCzarny> usb led light
May 15 03:12:19 <GeneralAntilles> That's why you turn down the backlight to minimum.
May 15 03:12:22 <Navi> nah
May 15 03:12:36 <Navi> johnx, we totally need an lcd system tray applet
May 15 03:12:46 <Grackle> Or... I can just have a shelf full of books and a lamp. :P
May 15 03:12:50 * Grackle keeps it simple
May 15 03:12:52 <johnx> we should foojack the one for the zaurus
May 15 03:13:00 <GeneralAntilles> Books are hard to keep and move
May 15 03:13:04 <GeneralAntilles> shelving space isn't free
May 15 03:13:07 <Navi> johnx, we should indeed
May 15 03:13:08 <Grackle> I'd like to make a portable ham radio setup. That would be fun.
May 15 03:13:09 <johnx> it probably just writes values into someplace in /sys
May 15 03:13:20 <GeneralAntilles> The shelving space is for my interesting/collectible books.
May 15 03:13:32 <johnx> actually...we could foojack all of zaurusd in the interim
May 15 03:14:23 <elb> heh denying the benefits of e-ink is pure fanboyism
May 15 03:14:39 <Navi> johnx, can we already adjust the lcd brightness?
May 15 03:14:46 <johnx> elb, yeah, I'm a fan of color
May 15 03:14:57 <johnx> Navi, echo 10 > /sys/somewhere
May 15 03:14:57 <Navi> I'm a fan of backlights
May 15 03:14:58 <elb> oh, there are definitely benefits of LCD as well
May 15 03:14:59 <GeneralAntilles> Navi, read the wiki page.
May 15 03:15:00 <Grackle> color for reading books?
May 15 03:15:01 <johnx> it's on the wiki
May 15 03:15:06 <Navi> Bleh
May 15 03:15:07 <elb> but e-ink really is easier on the eyes
May 15 03:15:17 <Navi> I already read the wiki page a few times and forgot everything
May 15 03:15:24 <Navi> I'm not going to read it again :P
May 15 03:15:34 <johnx> grep -i brightness wiki-page :P
May 15 03:15:35 <GeneralAntilles> RTFM, bitch!
May 15 03:16:21 <Grackle> artie effum
May 15 03:17:03 <shapr> The lyfe so short, the Craft so long to lerne
May 15 03:17:06 <Grackle> Does the bluetooth module do any sort of power saving?
May 15 03:17:21 <johnx> I have no clue
May 15 03:17:31 <Grackle> My iGo bluetooth keyboard is rather slow, it seems. Or maybe the screen just updates slowly.
May 15 03:18:00 <johnx> this is in os2008, right?
May 15 03:18:39 <Grackle> Nope, not a screen update problem. Just used screen and ssh to test that.
May 15 03:18:42 <Grackle> Yes, OS2008
May 15 03:19:02 <johnx> it's slow with a usb keyboard too
May 15 03:19:07 <Grackle> Actually, typi.. yeah
May 15 03:19:12 <Grackle> I noticed that.
May 15 03:19:14 <Grackle> Strange.
May 15 03:19:29 <Grackle> How is it when running debian?
May 15 03:20:01 <johnx> let me plug my keyboard in...
May 15 03:20:16 <Navi> heh
May 15 03:20:20 <Navi> ITT forums time
May 15 03:21:03 <Navi> Anyone believe the guy who said the N900 coming at the end of Q3?
May 15 03:21:16 <GeneralAntilles> +/-3 months
May 15 03:21:34 <GeneralAntilles> I very much doubt Nokia has it pinned down that hard.
May 15 03:21:52 <johnx> I'd bet late 2008/early 2009
May 15 03:22:03 <johnx> should be just fine for me :)
May 15 03:22:13 <johnx> I just hope they keep the keyboard
May 15 03:22:24 <pupnik> what's most important for the maemo community to have fixed-up for the N900 launch?
May 15 03:22:39 <EruditeHermit> fast browser
May 15 03:22:51 <EruditeHermit> which diablo might fix
May 15 03:23:04 <EruditeHermit> GPS that locks in <1 min
May 15 03:23:07 <johnx> EruditeHermit, that's not really a community thing and no diablo won't fix it
May 15 03:23:16 <johnx> neither thing, actually
May 15 03:23:17 <Grackle> I'd like serious thought put into usability.
May 15 03:23:30 <pupnik> repeat.  community.
May 15 03:23:31 <Navi> pupnik, video
May 15 03:23:37 <Grackle> Software usability, that is.
May 15 03:23:40 <pupnik> video what?
May 15 03:23:57 <Navi> the removal of the bus limitation in general
May 15 03:24:07 <pupnik> that's nokia hardware issue
May 15 03:24:12 <Navi> Yeah :P
May 15 03:24:15 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
May 15 03:24:18 <Navi> Oh, maemo
May 15 03:24:21 <Navi> Uh
May 15 03:24:22 <GeneralAntilles> I don't particularly care about the software.
May 15 03:24:23 <pupnik> what community projects are lagging that would help sell the N900?
May 15 03:24:29 <johnx> the question was about maemo and the community especially
May 15 03:24:33 <GeneralAntilles> Shipping Chinook on OMAP3 is good enough for me.
May 15 03:24:33 <Navi> pupnik, you know the answer to that.
May 15 03:24:35 <Navi> PIM
May 15 03:24:37 <Navi> PIM
May 15 03:24:41 <Navi> PIM
May 15 03:24:43 <Navi> etc etc
May 15 03:24:44 <EruditeHermit> how about specifications for application genres
May 15 03:24:46 <Navi> Personally, I don't care
May 15 03:24:48 <johnx> syncing I might be able to look at actually...
May 15 03:24:51 <Grackle> now we know it 3 times
May 15 03:25:20 <EruditeHermit> everyone makes their own category in app manager for their section
May 15 03:25:32 <GeneralAntilles> EruditeHermit, they're working on it.
May 15 03:25:45 <johnx> Grackle, no lag in Debian. I think it might have to do with word prediction taking up CPU time
May 15 03:25:52 <Navi> pimlico needs to be rewritten to catch up with pimlico on openmoko
May 15 03:25:52 <GeneralAntilles> Though there was an awful lot of jerky reactionism to the idea on the lists. :\
May 15 03:26:15 <shapr> speaking of debian, does anyone know if the random number generator problem in Debian is also in maemo?
May 15 03:26:16 <johnx> too many arguments from people without better ideas
May 15 03:26:29 <GeneralAntilles> I'm real tired of the lists these days.
May 15 03:26:43 <shapr> I know lots of people who'd buy an N800 if it had a decent PIM.
May 15 03:26:56 <johnx> shapr, you can run ssh-vulnkey on your keys on your tablet if you want
May 15 03:27:02 <Navi> johnx, yeah, there's a lot of tearing in xfce4 :/
May 15 03:27:12 <GeneralAntilles> The community needs to pick a PIM suite and get behind it.
May 15 03:27:17 <pupnik> agree on the PIM Navi.  What's the next most requested thing that fits in with the 'internet tablet' use case?
May 15 03:27:25 <johnx> Navi, try running fb_update_mode manual
May 15 03:27:26 <Navi> Fine
May 15 03:27:35 <mrlanrat> calendar?
May 15 03:27:38 <Grackle> johnx: disabled word completion and friends, let's give it a shot..
May 15 03:27:45 <Grackle> Nope, still laggy as hell.
May 15 03:28:02 <Navi> pupnik, that's hard to say
May 15 03:28:05 <johnx> Grackle, I still think it might be a CPU usage thing
May 15 03:28:29 <Grackle> Well I won't worry about it too much, I won't be playing in ITOS much. :)
May 15 03:28:36 <EruditeHermit> problem with PIM is that they'd have to write desktop software to sync it for Win, Linux and OSX
May 15 03:28:46 <GeneralAntilles> Why?
May 15 03:28:50 <GeneralAntilles> Just use an open standard
May 15 03:28:56 <Navi> Well, you can sync pimlico with evolution crap.
May 15 03:28:56 <Grackle> johnx: You don't have bluetooth working in debian yet, do you?
May 15 03:29:09 <Navi> you can sync gpe to google calendar and such
May 15 03:29:12 <EruditeHermit> GeneralAntilles: Windows doesn't have opensync on it does it?
May 15 03:29:22 <johnx> Grackle, it works fine
May 15 03:29:27 <GeneralAntilles> They could probably integrate it with their existing sync stuff.
May 15 03:29:32 <GeneralAntilles> I don't want a PIM from Nokia, anyway.
May 15 03:29:41 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia forces software to be shitty.
May 15 03:29:42 <Grackle> johnx: with keyboards? I didn't see it, but I didn't look very hard either.
May 15 03:29:53 <johnx> well the bluetooth works
May 15 03:30:05 <EruditeHermit> I use GPE and sync with opensync anyway
May 15 03:30:07 <johnx> I assume you just set it up the same way you do on any other debian system
May 15 03:30:18 <johnx> I don't have a bt keyboard so I can't test
May 15 03:30:26 <Grackle> I suppose so. I'll have to look into how that's done.
May 15 03:30:42 <pupnik> Yeah PIM and calendar.  Maybe we can somehow encourage ppl to get active in that?
May 15 03:31:29 <johnx> well, I'm glad I got mirrors this time. O_o 3.37GB of Debian transfered from one of the mirrors
May 15 03:31:31 <l7> re
May 15 03:31:42 <Navi> johnx, which?
May 15 03:31:42 <l7> how does Nokia force software to be shitty?
May 15 03:31:44 <pupnik> also i'd love it if ssvb got some sponsorship and dev boards for mplayer on n900
May 15 03:31:57 <johnx> debian.i2c4.com
May 15 03:32:02 <GeneralAntilles> I'd like to see people get behind Pimlico
May 15 03:32:04 <Navi> heh
May 15 03:32:10 <l7> i have been wondering why there's no PIM in the n800
May 15 03:32:12 <Navi> GeneralAntilles, still needs a rewrite
May 15 03:32:26 <Navi> l7, it's not that there isn't a PIM suite on the N800
May 15 03:32:34 <johnx> I read that as GeneralAntilles needing a rewrite :P
May 15 03:32:41 <Grackle> haha
May 15 03:32:47 <GeneralAntilles> Probably.
May 15 03:32:53 <l7> Navi: lack of sync maybe?
May 15 03:32:56 <Navi> it's just that there isn't a easy-enough-for-lazy-people-to-sync
May 15 03:33:05 <GeneralAntilles> l7, stupid UI spec, slow ass release cycles of what amounts to unstable software, stupid UI spec
May 15 03:34:17 <Navi> johnx, there's a lot of iceweasel stuff in the repos for there not being an iceweasel build
May 15 03:34:20 <Navi> >_>
May 15 03:34:35 <pupnik> being compatible with microsoft is kind of a nightmare
May 15 03:34:36 <johnx> that's a debian thing
May 15 03:34:41 <johnx> it's all built automagically
May 15 03:34:48 <Navi> mmk
May 15 03:35:59 <dieman> i just use sandy as a pim through twitter
May 15 03:36:16 <Navi> I used google's stuff for a while
May 15 03:36:25 <EruditeHermit> gronmayer is down
May 15 03:36:25 <Navi> then got lazy with pim and wrote it all down in maemopad+
May 15 03:36:28 <Navi> :P
May 15 03:36:39 <dieman> i really like sandy
May 15 03:36:56 <dieman> iwantsandy.com
May 15 03:37:51 <Navi> speakers need to mute when plugging in the headphones
May 15 03:38:17 <johnx> that's the kind of stuff that dsme handles if it's hooked up to dbus I guess
May 15 03:39:26 <Navi> bleh
May 15 03:39:45 <Navi> It feels like my brain is melting when I go through the Ubuntu forums
May 15 03:40:24 <anothy_lite> i have scratchbox w/ a rootstrap that can build d run things on maemo. no x11 libs or headers, though. how does one add those?
May 15 03:41:15 <Grackle> It's probably in an x11-dev package or somesuch
May 15 03:41:29 <Navi> Wow
May 15 03:41:34 <Navi> there's a lot of crap in alsa-base
May 15 03:42:32 <anothy_lite> but none of the rootstraps i've seen have the pkg stuff.
May 15 03:43:38 <Grackle> I don't know much about that. I got fed up with setting up scratchbox and just used the vmware appliance.
May 15 03:43:55 <anothy_lite> i suppose u could copy the libs from the device, but that doesn't seem right.
May 15 03:44:36 <anothy_lite> i tried that earlier today, actyally; dowlnloa link's broken.
May 15 03:45:00 <EruditeHermit> anothy_lite: if you add maemo repository, it has a lot of the packages
May 15 03:45:01 <anothy_lite> download, too.
May 15 03:45:16 <l7> GeneralAntilles: well yeah i agree that maemo's UI is sadly kludgey
May 15 03:45:57 <l7> why is it so hard to get a decent UI design?
May 15 03:46:12 <GeneralAntilles> Because decent UI design is hard.
May 15 03:46:20 <GeneralAntilles> and means different things to a lot of different people.
May 15 03:46:27 <l7> do you need someone like steve jobs cracking the whip to make it work?
May 15 03:46:33 <l7> that would be rather unfortunate
May 15 03:47:07 <Navi> I don't like the UI on any of the apple hardware
May 15 03:47:18 <Navi> s/hardware/products/
May 15 03:47:19 <infobot> Navi meant: I don't like the UI on any of the apple products
May 15 03:47:21 <pupnik> anothy_lite: apt-get whatever you need - the headers are in -dev packages
May 15 03:47:23 <Navi> Minus the iPod
May 15 03:47:45 <Navi> that patented circle scrolly thing is nice
May 15 03:47:47 <l7> i'm not a huge apple fan either, but i think they do manange to do a few things right
May 15 03:48:20 <l7> yeah the way the circle thing and the ipod touch's screen require less pressure to work is nice
May 15 03:48:45 <Navi> well, the touch screen is because of how it's made.  I say it's too sensitive :P
May 15 03:48:57 <l7> hmm, personal preference then
May 15 03:49:10 <l7> i find the n800 requires a bit too much effort to make it "click"
May 15 03:49:17 <Navi> not to me
May 15 03:49:36 <johnx> added a todo section to the Debian wiki: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian#TODO
May 15 03:49:48 * Navi looks
May 15 03:49:58 <johnx> if you have something that needs to be fixed/improved/added, please put it up
May 15 03:50:09 <Navi> I'm a selfish bastard
May 15 03:50:11 <Grackle> #TODO.21
May 15 03:50:13 <Navi> no way am I putting it up
May 15 03:50:43 <Grackle> Is there any way of getting xset to do that?
May 15 03:50:52 <Navi> heh, all three are out of my league
May 15 03:50:55 <Grackle> actually, I don't think that's necessary
May 15 03:51:04 <johnx> Grackle, the xomap server doesn't support DPMS
May 15 03:51:11 <johnx> there's a patch but it needs to be compiled
May 15 03:51:32 <Grackle> There's a patch to make it support dpms, or there's a patch to make xset support xomap?
May 15 03:51:43 <johnx> patch to make xomap support dpms
May 15 03:51:57 <johnx> I should really get unlazy and compile it
May 15 03:51:59 <johnx> but not right now
May 15 03:52:11 <johnx> need to take a shower and head off to work
May 15 03:52:24 <Navi> johnx, aren't you tired?
May 15 03:52:29 <johnx> yeah
May 15 03:52:32 <johnx> so it won't be today
May 15 03:52:35 <Navi> heh
May 15 03:52:35 <Grackle> Head off to work? o.o
May 15 03:52:39 <Grackle> Where do you live?
May 15 03:52:39 <Navi> damn
May 15 03:52:51 <johnx> Japan
May 15 03:53:03 <Grackle> oh, ok :P
May 15 03:53:17 <johnx> and I work afternoon shift at this job
May 15 03:53:24 <ds3> johnx: so you get all the nice new toys?
May 15 03:53:36 <johnx> hahaha...all the nice new toys I can't afford
May 15 03:53:41 <Navi> :)
May 15 03:53:53 <johnx> nah, the N800 was my last real electronics purchase
May 15 03:54:01 <johnx> Japan is a freakin' expensive place to live
May 15 03:54:01 <ds3> akabara(sp?)
May 15 03:54:18 <johnx> akihabara has some neat stuff
May 15 03:54:25 <Navi> Wonder how well comix runs
May 15 03:54:25 <johnx> but ordering online in the US is usually cheaper
May 15 03:54:29 <Navi> haven't bothered to check
May 15 03:54:47 <ds3> except for stuff you can't get in the US like the last few Z's
May 15 03:54:53 <johnx> true
May 15 03:55:02 <johnx> there's a store that had a rack of used Zs
May 15 03:55:14 <ds3> SL6000W's?
May 15 03:55:23 <johnx> I don't remember
May 15 03:55:37 <johnx> http://flickr.com/photos/johnxx/452167911/
May 15 03:56:09 <ds3> all clam shells :(
May 15 03:56:17 <ds3> and 5xxx's
May 15 03:56:29 <Navi> clam shells are alright IMO
May 15 03:56:37 <johnx> they get different stuff in from time to time
May 15 03:56:53 <johnx> if I'm up there again I'll look for
May 15 03:56:53 <Navi> It's a used rack afterall
May 15 03:57:11 <ds3> a SL6000W would be nice... almost like a N800 but with Xscale
May 15 03:57:24 <johnx> and without the nice OS2008
May 15 03:57:51 <ds3> QT isn't too horrible... I think there are more software for the QT stuff then the N800
May 15 03:57:53 <johnx> OS2008 may be weak in areas but it was light years ahead of Sharp's ancient QTopia
May 15 03:58:20 <johnx> anyways, off to work now
May 15 03:58:23 <johnx> 'later all
May 15 03:58:34 <Navi> bye
May 15 03:58:36 <Grackle> cya
May 15 04:15:30 <mrlanrat> wow, everyone is leaving....
May 15 04:16:04 <GeneralAntilles> New to IRC, then?
May 15 04:17:10 <mrlanrat> this channel, yes.
May 15 04:17:55 <GeneralAntilles> It's a 200+ person channel, people places to be and lots of timeszones. ;)
May 15 04:17:59 <GeneralAntilles> Just wait for the netsplits.
May 15 04:18:07 <mrlanrat> yha...
May 15 04:18:17 <Grackle> Is this channel really that big?
May 15 04:18:21 * Grackle /names
May 15 04:18:22 <Grackle> wow
May 15 04:18:31 <GeneralAntilles> Not compared to some channels.
May 15 04:18:35 <GeneralAntilles> Like, say, #ubuntu.
May 15 04:18:37 <mrlanrat> yha, wow
May 15 04:18:43 <mrlanrat> 245 ppl
May 15 04:18:46 <Grackle> No, but surprisingly large for a rather niche community.
May 15 04:19:03 <GeneralAntilles> Eh, ITT has about 30k
May 15 04:19:11 <KotCzarny> active nicks is ~20-30
May 15 04:19:30 <Grackle> I guess I'm just easily impressed.
May 15 04:19:45 <megabyte405> this channel is a lot more sane compared to #ubuntu
May 15 04:19:59 <megabyte405> #ubuntu is useless since there is no way to follow a threaed of discussion
May 15 04:20:23 <megabyte405> I asked a question, and by the time I remembered to check for an answer my question had already been scrolled _out of my scrollback_ - not just off the screen
May 15 04:20:38 <KotCzarny> fun
May 15 04:20:39 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 04:20:52 <GeneralAntilles> megabyte405, well, that and other reasons. :P
May 15 04:33:39 <mrlanrat> anybody know when qwerty12 comes online?
May 15 04:34:06 <KotCzarny> he lives on gmt+0
May 15 04:34:37 <mrlanrat> ok
May 15 04:34:43 <GeneralAntilles>   Whenever the hell he wants to. :D
May 15 04:34:47 <mrlanrat> lol
May 15 04:34:57 <KotCzarny> not true
May 15 04:35:00 <KotCzarny> school calls
May 15 04:35:02 <KotCzarny> hehe
May 15 04:35:03 <mrlanrat> lol
May 15 04:35:23 <mrlanrat> hey, im on IRC during school sometimes. ;)
May 15 04:35:32 <mrlanrat> N810!
May 15 04:35:50 <KotCzarny> bad. you should be learning
May 15 04:35:51 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 04:36:07 <mrlanrat> lol
May 15 04:36:29 <mrlanrat> Hey, GeneralAntilles, are you getting my PMs?
May 15 04:36:46 <pupnik> is PMS infectious?
May 15 04:37:00 <KotCzarny> pupnik: more like sychronized
May 15 04:37:00 <mrlanrat> Personal Messages....
May 15 04:37:19 <pupnik> attempt at humor: epic fail
May 15 04:37:20 <KotCzarny> moon, pheromones etc
May 15 04:37:39 <KotCzarny> lol
May 15 04:37:53 <KotCzarny> looks like i read 20 first chars at most
May 15 04:37:55 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 04:38:13 <GeneralAntilles> mrlanrat, here or ITT?
May 15 04:38:25 <mrlanrat> Here
May 15 04:38:30 <GeneralAntilles> No
May 15 04:38:34 <GeneralAntilles> You registered?
May 15 04:38:34 <mrlanrat> ?
May 15 04:38:39 <mrlanrat> no
May 15 04:38:40 <GeneralAntilles>  /msg nickserv register <password>
May 15 04:38:50 <mrlanrat> huh?
May 15 04:38:50 <GeneralAntilles> Non-registered users can's pm on freenode.
May 15 04:38:55 <mrlanrat> o
May 15 04:38:57 <GeneralAntilles>  /msg nickserv help
May 15 04:38:57 <KotCzarny> not true
May 15 04:39:00 <mrlanrat> so how do i regester?
May 15 04:39:03 <KotCzarny> you can turn off that feature
May 15 04:39:03 <mrlanrat> ?
May 15 04:39:11 <GeneralAntilles>  /msg nickserv register <password>
May 15 04:39:11 <KotCzarny> 'feature'
May 15 04:39:15 <GeneralAntilles> Pick your password.
May 15 04:39:18 <mrlanrat> k
May 15 04:39:23 <summatusmentis> I have a question, less about maemo, and more about the n810 hardware when compared to a Z
May 15 04:39:39 <GeneralAntilles> Faster.
May 15 04:39:40 <mrlanrat> its 123 so i should do "/msg nickserv register 123"?
May 15 04:39:50 <mrlanrat> (im joking)
May 15 04:39:55 <GeneralAntilles> Well, no, because everybody would know your password. :P
May 15 04:40:00 * GeneralAntilles is reminded of a bash quote.
May 15 04:40:09 <mrlanrat> which one?
May 15 04:40:30 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.bash.org/?244321
May 15 04:40:58 <mrlanrat> ahh
May 15 04:41:02 <mrlanrat> i like that one
May 15 04:41:35 <summatusmentis> has anyone used a zaurus 3200? I'm considering purchasing an n810, and selling my 3200
May 15 04:42:06 <GeneralAntilles> johnx is really the local Z guy.
May 15 04:42:09 <Navi> Yeah
May 15 04:42:12 <GeneralAntilles> He just left for work, though.
May 15 04:42:23 <summatusmentis> oh, ok
May 15 04:44:19 <GeneralAntilles> summatusmentis, you could PM him on ITT if you don't want to wait around.
May 15 04:44:34 <summatusmentis> GeneralAntilles: I don't know what ITT means
May 15 04:44:49 <Navi> summatusmentis, internet tablet talk
May 15 04:44:59 <Navi> http://www.internettablettalk.com
May 15 04:45:05 <summatusmentis> when will he be back? does he IRC from work?
May 15 04:45:14 <Navi> no
May 15 04:45:24 <summatusmentis> mk, so in like... 8 hours
May 15 04:46:12 <GeneralAntilles> Less, probably.
May 15 04:46:32 <summatusmentis> but not w/in the next hour and a half :)
May 15 05:28:43 <Grackle> Weh. I can't get utelnetd to woik.
May 15 05:30:00 <zenzen> Hi
May 15 05:30:17 <zenzen> i have one question and hope that someone could help me with that
May 15 05:31:32 <Grackle> Shoot.
May 15 05:31:41 <zenzen> Thanks
May 15 05:32:24 <zenzen> I need to mount a local directory from my n800 into a another linux system
May 15 05:32:57 <GeneralAntilles> sshfs?
May 15 05:32:58 <GeneralAntilles> sftp?
May 15 05:33:01 <zenzen> I want to make a directory from my n800 shared (used) by another linux system (Router) which has limited memory resources
May 15 05:33:20 <zenzen> What i'm doing: i connect to the router using ssh
May 15 05:33:48 <zenzen> while i'm on it, i use "mount.cifs //192.168.1.141/share /mnt/share -o username=root"
May 15 05:34:14 <zenzen> but i'm getting error
May 15 05:34:51 <Grackle> If I were you, I would ssh forward through the router
May 15 05:34:58 <Grackle> rather than actually log into it
May 15 05:35:07 <Grackle> see ssh -l
May 15 05:35:08 <Grackle> but anyway
May 15 05:35:15 <Grackle> What error are you getting?
May 15 05:35:27 <zenzen> "mount error 146: connection refused"
May 15 05:35:32 <Grackle> sorry, ssh -L
May 15 05:35:44 <zenzen> the linux system is on the router
May 15 05:36:01 <zenzen> the router has a firmware Legend on it
May 15 05:36:04 <Grackle> Well, what is the purpose of this?
May 15 05:36:12 <zenzen> Ok
May 15 05:36:20 <zenzen> my router has 16MB of memory
May 15 05:36:35 <zenzen> firmware takes i think 13MB
May 15 05:36:51 <zenzen> so, as soon as i excute a programm, its memory is full
May 15 05:37:04 <KotCzarny> buy another router
May 15 05:37:07 <KotCzarny> seriously
May 15 05:37:08 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 05:37:10 <zenzen> :D
May 15 05:37:11 <zenzen> :D
May 15 05:37:19 <KotCzarny> i have wrt54g
May 15 05:37:27 <KotCzarny> but i have customized my openwrt
May 15 05:37:37 <KotCzarny> so i can run some programs
May 15 05:37:38 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 05:38:21 <KotCzarny> it has 16mb of mem, and it shows..
May 15 05:38:24 <zenzen> I know it can be done but i prefer to know how to do it, even if i've already hacve another router (wrt54GL)
May 15 05:38:38 <zenzen> it shows ...?
May 15 05:38:41 <KotCzarny> do what?
May 15 05:38:46 <KotCzarny> mount remote dir on it?
May 15 05:38:50 <zenzen> yes
May 15 05:38:53 <KotCzarny> hum
May 15 05:38:59 <zenzen> mount a directory from n800 into it
May 15 05:39:21 <zenzen> i can see shared directories on desktop XP
May 15 05:39:22 <KotCzarny> is there a sshfs for your firmware?
May 15 05:39:32 <zenzen> i don't know
May 15 05:39:35 <KotCzarny> hum
May 15 05:39:46 <zenzen> i've used mount.cifs and it worked with xp
May 15 05:39:47 <KotCzarny> if you want to go samba/cifs way
May 15 05:39:49 <zenzen> with n800 nothing
May 15 05:39:57 <KotCzarny> then you must have server on n800 running
May 15 05:40:02 <KotCzarny> ie. samba
May 15 05:40:21 <KotCzarny> that's why you get conn. refused
May 15 05:41:01 <zenzen> i'm not sur if i'm doing the right thing in my n800. I don't know how to make a directory shared in my n800 and if //192.168.1.141/share point to /home/user/MyDocs/share
May 15 05:41:02 <zenzen> Exaclty
May 15 05:41:02 <zenzen> How to enbale Samba
May 15 05:41:02 <KotCzarny> zenzen: instal samba on n800
May 15 05:41:02 <zenzen> How?
May 15 05:41:02 <KotCzarny> find a package
May 15 05:41:03 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 05:41:03 <zenzen> Where is it? :d i can't find it
May 15 05:41:15 <zenzen> They said that samba is included in n800, no?
May 15 05:41:21 <KotCzarny> who?
May 15 05:41:25 <KotCzarny> not on mine
May 15 05:41:26 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 05:41:30 <zenzen> they said Buil-in, no?
May 15 05:41:42 <KotCzarny> maybe client side software
May 15 05:41:42 <zenzen> perhaps i misunderstood some ITT posts
May 15 05:41:45 <KotCzarny> but not server
May 15 05:41:56 <zenzen> i really can't find samba server
May 15 05:42:07 <zenzen> i checked most repositories but nothing
May 15 05:42:20 <zenzen> i found old posts about os2007 but nothing now
May 15 05:42:39 <KotCzarny> heh, gronmayer is b0rken
May 15 05:42:44 <KotCzarny> Fatal error: Call to undefined function: curl_init() in /var/www/gronmayer.com/htdocs/it/_init/functions.inc.php on line 227
May 15 05:42:45 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 05:42:55 <pupnik> nfs is builtin now
May 15 05:42:55 <KotCzarny> sorry, can't help more than than
May 15 05:42:58 <zenzen> oh yes :D, but i checked using Google cache :D
May 15 05:43:00 <mrlanrat> Its been down all day :(
May 15 05:43:06 <pupnik> or wait, is it?  i forgot
May 15 05:43:18 <n800n> anyone here used statua?
May 15 05:43:24 <KotCzarny> pupnik: i think you need nfsd module
May 15 05:43:31 <KotCzarny> and few others
May 15 05:43:37 <KotCzarny> and rpc.portmap
May 15 05:43:39 <pupnik> i was using it as client, ignore me
May 15 05:43:42 <KotCzarny> and nfsd :>
May 15 05:43:56 <KotCzarny> ignore you? never!
May 15 05:43:58 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 05:44:20 <zenzen> can someone confirm me that there is indeed a samba server package for os2008? Thanks.
May 15 05:44:56 <pupnik> zenzen: normally the easiest place to search is gronmayer.com/it
May 15 05:45:21 <zenzen> ok i'll check when it is up, thanks
May 15 05:55:18 <pupnik> http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mpoc1X7FzjI  german television report on LinuxTag 2007 showing Nokia N800s used as bluetooth controllers for lego robots @ 3:30
May 15 06:01:24 <n800n> geil
May 15 06:01:57 <GeneralAntilles> Hrw, how's mouse support under Debian?
May 15 06:02:37 <GeneralAntilles> Erm, false highlight.
May 15 06:02:45 <GeneralAntilles> s/Hr/Ho/
May 15 06:05:43 <Navi> :|
May 15 06:05:52 <Navi> it's fine
May 15 06:08:10 <GeneralAntilles> No plug'n'play. . . .
May 15 06:09:12 <Grackle> Hooray, debian sid running on my tablet. :)
May 15 06:09:23 <Navi> woo
May 15 06:09:23 <Grackle> I was having stupid problems because I put utelnetd in the wrong place.
May 15 06:09:46 * Grackle was looking for it in /usr/sbin, but he had put it in /usr/bin
May 15 06:13:52 * qwerty12 is going through second install of sdk. Stupid gnome-stones messing up deps :/
May 15 06:23:36 <Navi> :P
May 15 06:27:53 <qwerty12> Hater :P
May 15 06:34:37 <Stskeeps> Grackle: you did it through debootstrapping manually?
May 15 06:39:08 <RST38h> morning
May 15 06:39:19 <qwerty12> morning
May 15 06:40:08 <RST38h> All right, try http://fms.komkon.org/iNES/ines_3.6.0-1_armel.deb
May 15 06:40:13 <RST38h> check this
May 15 06:40:16 <qwerty12> w00t, nice :)
May 15 06:40:30 <RST38h> not yet released but will be
May 15 06:46:11 <pupnik> ice job RST38h
May 15 06:47:48 * qwerty12 wants to kill brightspark who thought ff 3.0 in Ubuntu 8.04 was a good idea. I'm seriously tempted to use Opera or ie4linux
May 15 06:48:32 <RST38h> thanks pupnik
May 15 06:49:01 <RST38h> qwerty: it is a weird choice but what is specifically wrong with it?
May 15 06:49:11 <qwerty12> The random crashes
May 15 06:49:41 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, it's a good plan, actually.
May 15 06:49:42 <RST38h> does not crash for me although I hate the new history button placement
May 15 06:49:54 <GeneralAntilles> The idea was to not have to support version 2 for forever. ;)
May 15 06:50:09 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, maybe but I wish they had.
May 15 06:50:16 <GeneralAntilles> Push to 3 now and have a little short-term pain while it's finalized and save a LOT of longterm pain supporting 2 for forever.
May 15 06:50:22 <qwerty12> Maybe because I'm using pulseaudio :/
May 15 06:50:47 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, when you put it like that, it sounds worthwhile :)
May 15 06:51:13 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I thought the same thing. ;)
May 15 06:52:35 <RST38h> Choice between pain and suffering? =)
May 15 06:53:04 <qwerty12> Dunno, I'm gonna use Opera for the time being.
May 15 06:53:21 <qwerty12> Not really a fan of it but at least it's stable for me.
May 15 06:53:42 <qwerty12> (I hate that it looks like windows too under linux >.<)
May 15 06:55:03 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
May 15 06:57:37 <qwerty12> Oh yeah to anyone, does your sound in Debian beta3 work without speaker amplification turned on?
May 15 06:58:15 <qwerty12> It's pretty cool in debian, I can have sound going to the headphones and to the speakers at the same time. Pointless but fun :p
May 15 06:59:46 <Navi> qw:P
May 15 06:59:53 <Navi> oh, left
May 15 07:14:05 <mbuf> other than the source maemo-mapper, is there any documentation on how openstreet maps are displayed on the application?
May 15 07:24:52 <zenzen> Hi
May 15 07:24:55 <zenzen> it's me again
May 15 07:25:03 <zenzen> i just want to say thanks
May 15 07:25:20 <zenzen> Actually, i installed the shfs-utils on my router
May 15 07:25:40 <zenzen> and instead of mount.cifs i used "shfsmount" to do it.
May 15 07:26:15 <zenzen> Everything worked as expected. Thanks again and have a good night.
May 15 08:59:51 <czr> hmm. with RESOLVED FIXED, should I change the status to 'VERIFIED' when I agree that a bug is fixed?
May 15 08:59:54 <czr> can't remember.
May 15 09:02:03 <kulve> my guess: you should set it to verified when you can verify the fix on some release
May 15 09:02:23 <_berto_> yes
May 15 09:03:42 <proxyvictim> hello cruel world
May 15 09:07:18 <aquatix> cruel world says hello to proxyvictim
May 15 09:12:09 <hrw> RST38h: do you know that firefox allow to customize buttons?
May 15 09:12:31 <rm_you> johnx: GeneralAntilles: one of you entertain me somehow :P
May 15 09:14:01 * GeneralAntilles dances.
May 15 09:14:08 <rm_you> lol
May 15 09:15:09 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, you ever find out how Nokia managed their retarded applets?
May 15 09:15:30 <rm_you> timeless sent me some interesting Pseudocode...
May 15 09:15:53 <rm_you> but not sure i know enough about GTK to figure it out, since the Hildon API is just BLANK on the page about the thing i need
May 15 09:16:02 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
May 15 09:16:57 <GeneralAntilles> Random letters and numbers until it works?
May 15 09:17:47 * aquatix hands rm_you an infinite amount of monkeys and laptops
May 15 09:18:19 <GeneralAntilles> Nice that you keep those on hand.
May 15 09:18:39 <aquatix> yeah, always come in handy
May 15 09:18:46 <aquatix> need a big basement though
May 15 09:19:32 <aquatix> so i generally just park them on a space station near the center of our Milky Way and teleport things to and fro
May 15 09:19:48 * aquatix cackles madly and continues working
May 15 09:19:49 <rm_you> i wish I had infinate laptops :P
May 15 09:19:53 <aquatix> ghehe
May 15 09:20:02 <aquatix> shall i dcc you some?
May 15 09:20:11 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: i can do GTK if i have guides, or even (most importantly) an API to work from
May 15 09:20:20 <rm_you> all i need to do is KNOW THE FUNCTIONS I CAN CALL!!!
May 15 09:20:27 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
May 15 09:20:31 <GeneralAntilles> But you don't get to.
May 15 09:20:40 * rm_you kries
May 15 09:20:49 <rm_you> timeless: you thar?
May 15 09:24:05 <GeneralAntilles> Also, a prefs dialog would be useful.
May 15 09:34:24 <kulve> lardman: your questions at the wiki doesn have a question :)
May 15 09:34:28 <kulve> lardman: at least 2/3 of them
May 15 09:34:38 <kulve> https://maemo.org/community/wiki/questionsfornokia/
May 15 09:34:41 <kulve> those questions
May 15 09:34:42 <lardman> rm_you: add this to the list of questions
May 15 09:34:51 <lardman> kulve:hmm, will have a look
May 15 09:35:30 <rm_you> k
May 15 09:36:18 <lardman> rm_you: I'm about to edit it though, so hang on a min or two
May 15 09:36:47 <trickie_> dneary: cool, my questions were added and i didn't even send them to you
May 15 09:36:51 <dneary> No JackCrow?
May 15 09:36:57 <trickie_> dneary: nice foraging :)
May 15 09:37:10 <dneary> trickie_: I picked up questions off the mailing list thread & the IRC chat
May 15 09:37:17 <dneary> Navi: Ping?
May 15 09:37:20 <trickie_> yep nice
May 15 09:37:26 <dneary> No Morpheuz?
May 15 09:37:56 <X-Fade_> dneary: Morpheuz is in Brazil, so probably not awake yet :)
May 15 09:37:57 <trickie_> dneary: Morpheuz maybe on #canola
May 15 09:38:06 <trickie_> and what X-Fade_ said
May 15 09:38:12 <dneary> Will wait
May 15 09:38:20 <dneary> Getting organised for the wiki reorg
May 15 09:38:31 <dneary> Had a tough time getting a definitive list of all the wiki pages
May 15 09:38:46 <lardman> rm_you: all yours
May 15 09:38:48 <dneary> Got it now
May 15 09:39:10 <dneary> Now I'm looking at the wiki syntax for midgard and mediawiki, see if I can script the migration at all
May 15 09:39:40 <dneary> After that, the hard work starts - deleting pages that need to be deleted, or more likely removing them from the pages to migrate
May 15 09:39:45 <lardman> Shall we split that page into "status requests" - i.e, drivers, etc. and "why is this software closed questions"?
May 15 09:40:00 <dneary> Identify pages that need updating/refreshing, pages that are historical, ...
May 15 09:40:02 <X-Fade_> dneary: Midgard uses Markdown.
May 15 09:40:20 <dneary> lardman: I'll leave you to be the judge :)
May 15 09:40:22 <GAN800> I want that open/closed table.
May 15 09:40:27 <dneary> Indeed, they're different types of questions
May 15 09:40:57 <lardman> dneary: depends on what's easiest for the Nokians to parse & reply to
May 15 09:41:46 <lardman> I'm tempted by a section for software components, preferably with a reason why we want/need it to be open so Nokia have something to judge it on
May 15 09:42:23 <dneary> lardman: Go for it, if you think it's a logical separation
May 15 09:42:26 <trickie_> lardman: that sounds useful
May 15 09:43:19 <lardman> if someone else wants to do it now go ahead, otherwise I'll do some editing a bit later on
May 15 09:43:50 <GAN800> Is there a package dump that might be usable for something like that?
May 15 09:45:57 <lardman> GAN800: well really people should justify why they want something I think; that will go down better with Nokia
May 15 09:46:10 <lardman> GAN800: in which case the list is in your head.
May 15 09:46:22 <GeneralAntilles> Well, from a documentation standpoint
May 15 09:46:31 <GeneralAntilles> having a list of everything and its open/closed status is useful.
May 15 09:46:39 <lardman> there used to be a package list in the sdk dir iirc
May 15 09:46:47 <lardman> download dir that is
May 15 09:47:21 <GeneralAntilles> Then work from that to put together a list of the important things that should be opened.
May 15 09:48:08 <trickie_> lardman: i will try and qualify my questions tonight
May 15 09:48:53 <lardman> trickie_: ok
May 15 10:01:40 <lardman> X-Fade_: ping
May 15 10:02:17 <X-Fade_> lardman: pong
May 15 10:02:35 <lardman> Can people attach themselves to pages, to be notified that a change has been made?
May 15 10:03:05 <X-Fade_> In the wiki, you can..
May 15 10:03:06 <lardman> I've just received a bounced message which I was supposed to have sent to zword@dlfp.org, regarding the changes I just made to the wiki page
May 15 10:04:09 <lardman> strange that the maemo site sends an update from my email address?
May 15 10:04:31 <X-Fade_> Hmm that should not be.
May 15 10:04:37 <trickie_> lardman: i had the same
May 15 10:04:53 <lardman> X-Fade_: I can email it to you if you'd like to have a look see
May 15 10:04:56 <trickie_> seems that when i create a new wiki page that address was already 'attached'
May 15 10:05:20 <X-Fade_> trickie_: You can attach to the index, so every new page is mailed to you..
May 15 10:05:44 <lardman> but the notification should still be sent by maemo, not masquerading as me, imo
May 15 10:05:59 <X-Fade_> lardman: I'll try check it out.
May 15 10:06:05 <trickie_> X-Fade_: ah ok, well that address seems to be bouncing everytime at the moment, for every wiki action
May 15 10:06:11 <lardman> X-Fade_: thanks
May 15 10:07:56 <trickie_> no bother to me anyway, as gmail thinks its backscatter spam i think
May 15 10:10:15 <lardman> ok, so regarding the QuestionsForNokia page, how many categories do we want to have?
May 15 10:12:58 <RST38h> lardman: One
May 15 10:13:06 <RST38h> lardman: Titled "WHY?"
May 15 10:13:12 <lardman> :)
May 15 10:13:29 <RST38h> Or you may want to have it tiered, 1st tier being "WHY?", 2nd being "WTF?"
May 15 10:16:31 <trickie_> 1. Currently Closed Components, 2. Future Issues/Components, 3. Nokia <-> Community Contact
May 15 10:16:32 <trickie_> ?
May 15 10:16:52 <trickie_> i dunno, i should be working :) i will be around later if i can help
May 15 10:17:22 <pupnik_> community priorities
May 15 10:17:32 <pupnik_> the community is always griping 'nokia this' 'nokia that'
May 15 10:18:01 <pupnik_> imo fwiw
May 15 10:18:46 <lardman> pupnik_: yes, which is why having a decent way of asking questions would be useful for both sides
May 15 10:20:22 <lardman> how do I do tiered lists in the wiki?
May 15 10:20:28 <pupnik_> then again i see most productive people are individualist
May 15 10:20:39 <pupnik_> doing the things they want because they want to do them
May 15 10:21:35 <GeneralAntilles> Incentive is a little weak for any other sort of work. ;)
May 15 10:23:12 <GeneralAntilles> You're not getting paid and the love and adoration of the community usually doesn't pan out.
May 15 10:23:23 <hrw> can someone change a bit styling of headers iin old maemo wiki?
May 15 10:24:00 <lardman> anyone, two layers of bullet points in the wiki?
May 15 10:24:17 <GeneralAntilles> I could tell you for mediawiki. :P
May 15 10:24:35 <hrw> lardman: try **
May 15 10:25:01 <lardman> tried, not quite what I was after though: https://maemo.org/community/wiki/questionsfornokia/
May 15 10:25:56 <hrw> lardman: headers should be used for that
May 15 10:26:07 <hrw> but current maemo wiki styling is ...
May 15 10:26:14 <lardman> but the level 1 and 2 headers look identical
May 15 10:26:21 <lardman> ah, yes styling is broken
May 15 10:26:46 <hrw> someone know when mediawiki will be open for editing?
May 15 10:27:07 <lardman> if anyone wants to alter the headings, etc. please do so
May 15 10:27:20 <lardman> i.e. change the descriptions, add others, etc.
May 15 10:30:51 <hrw> wiki styles block any sensible altering
May 15 10:31:07 <hrw> headers are broken, definiton lists too
May 15 10:31:52 <lardman> hrw: raise a bug?
May 15 10:32:09 <GeneralAntilles> Why bother?
May 15 10:32:33 <GeneralAntilles> Be like raising a bug on osso-email at this point. :P
May 15 10:32:35 <hrw> lardman: I prefer website guys to finish mediawiki instead
May 15 10:32:49 <hrw> lardman: whole maemo.org site is insane
May 15 10:33:11 <hrw> forced size to 776px instead of xx% etc
May 15 10:33:16 <lardman> I'm quite sure they would like some input though
May 15 10:33:37 <lardman> In fact there's that midgard mailing list too
May 15 10:34:10 <hrw> with few css tweaks page is more readable but it still ugly is
May 15 10:34:33 <FreeNom> re
May 15 10:34:37 <X-Fade_> hrw: Yeah, the font handling is on my TODO list. We really need to fix that..
May 15 10:34:58 <hrw> X-Fade_: also remove 'width:150px' from <dt>
May 15 10:35:02 <X-Fade_> Patches are welcome :)
May 15 10:35:14 <hrw> X-Fade_: my patch willb e too intrusive
May 15 10:35:58 <lardman> but will still show intent
May 15 10:37:09 <lardman> I was hoping for lots of replies to my email ;(
May 15 10:45:00 <GAN800> Threats of violence tend tend to work well, lardman. ;)
May 15 10:46:11 <lardman> ah well, I'll leave those until later on this arvo
May 15 10:46:18 <hrw> X-Fade_: http://pastebin.com/d524005ad
May 15 10:46:41 <hrw> X-Fade_: should be readable on 800x480 and also on 1680x1050
May 15 10:48:30 <hrw> not touched h1/h2/h3
May 15 10:49:37 <hrw> font sizes in general are weird on maemo.org
May 15 10:50:08 <hrw> <li class="h1"> is sick too
May 15 10:51:13 <lardman> heading size could do with tweaking though
May 15 10:51:18 <lardman> sizes
May 15 10:52:10 <hrw> lardman: 'toc' frame needs smaller font, numbering etc
May 15 11:37:11 <johnx> hey rm_you
May 15 11:41:36 <lopz> morning
May 15 11:41:43 <johnx> mornin'
May 15 11:41:49 <lardman> morning
May 15 12:35:15 <lardman> http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9448 I'm not going mad, thank goodness
May 15 12:35:53 <aquatix> lardman: hey
May 15 12:36:04 <lardman> hi aquatix
May 15 12:36:08 <aquatix> does that also have to do with the mouse?
May 15 12:36:17 <aquatix> i think i noticed something similar on my laptop
May 15 12:36:52 <lardman> It appears to be 2 bugs, both of which I suffer from; the repeat until xserver reset is related to holding a key down and using the mouse at the same time
May 15 12:39:45 <aquatix> yeah, i've encountered something similar
May 15 12:50:09 <lardman> hmm, do I need to enable the "[Download The Nightly SVN Tree Snapshot]" function in a Garage project?
May 15 12:55:58 <lardman> just that although I have files in svn I can't get a snapshot of them for some reason
May 15 12:57:55 <X-Fade_> lardman: That seems to be disabled. Or at least I get a 404 ;)
May 15 12:58:22 <lardman> ok
May 15 12:58:39 <X-Fade_> I'll ask around to get the answer why..
May 15 12:58:50 <lardman> thanks
May 15 13:01:34 <Grackle> Stskeeps: I did the --foreign debootstrap on my laptop, then moved the card to my n800, where I did the --second-stage and a bunch of configuration in a chroot. Installed utelnetd using johnx's instructions from the itt wiki, and it works. :)
May 15 13:01:35 <RST38h> double loop with strcmp() inside
May 15 13:01:53 * RST38h waits for any present programmers to throw up
May 15 13:09:28 <lardman> ~lart crc calculations
May 15 13:09:28 * infobot moos at crc calculations
May 15 13:10:35 <Grackle> Heh RST38h, I kind of ignored that, but that does indeed sound awful.
May 15 13:13:05 * lardman likes the low complexity of the low complexity sub band encoder
May 15 13:14:41 <RST38h> lardman: Out = (In[0]>>6)+((In[1]>>6)<<2)+((In[2]>>6)<<4)+... ?
May 15 13:15:27 <lardman> unfortunately not quite that simple :)
May 15 13:16:12 <hrw> RST38h: ((In[0]>>6)<<0) you mean?
May 15 13:22:14 <lardman> nice that there's very little in terms of 8bit chars :)
May 15 13:22:31 <lardman> other than the acursed crc calculations ;)
May 15 13:23:50 <lardman> drat, long long is used though
May 15 13:30:09 <gnuton> Hi
May 15 13:30:18 <SDuensin> Greetings.
May 15 13:30:37 <_berto_> GeneralAntilles: vagalume in maemo-extras at last ;)
May 15 13:30:39 <gnuton> which package contains dpkg-preconfigure on 4.1 sdk? Can anyone run a dpkg -S dpkg-preconfigure ? Thanks
May 15 13:31:07 * SDuensin really needs to get his Maemo dev stuff set back up.  <sigh>
May 15 13:34:11 <RST38h> hrw: Cut byte to two upper bits
May 15 13:34:38 <RST38h> hrw: so that you essentially "compress" 4 bytes into one
May 15 13:35:11 <RST38h> [of course, ignoring the minor issue of losing 25% precision]
May 15 13:35:58 <gnuton> Does anyone run 'dpkg -S dpkg-preconfigure' on his sdk environment? i can't install my sdk env without it!
May 15 14:00:39 <Grackle> Haha, fanoush on N800 CPU speed in OS2007: "Yes, it is fixed (or variable if one insists) as in "any out of two possible values - 330 and 0" :-)"
May 15 14:19:06 <dneary> JackCrow: Ping?
May 15 14:19:55 <dneary> Navi: Ping?
May 15 14:26:34 <jdiaz> I have to check latest vagalume
May 15 14:26:50 <jdiaz> and I suppose I should add d-bus support to wiicontrol
May 15 14:28:46 <_berto_> jdiaz: yes! :)
May 15 14:30:02 <X-Fade_> _berto_: I'll try to find out what went wrong with your autobuild..
May 15 14:31:55 <dneary> X-Fade_: I'm making headway on the migration question
May 15 14:32:09 <_berto_> did it break ?
May 15 14:32:12 <dneary> Have a manual way to adjust formating, but it doesn't always work properly
May 15 14:32:17 <_berto_> probably the lack of build-depends :)
May 15 14:32:20 <dneary> Using pandoc and html2wiki
May 15 14:32:32 <dneary> But it's slow
May 15 14:32:39 <dneary> For one page, you spend 10 or 15 minutes
May 15 14:32:55 <dneary> We should try to do a mass dump of wiki pages if possible
May 15 14:33:02 <X-Fade_> _berto_: Yeah, I guess so. But i'll find out..
May 15 14:33:02 <dneary> And a mass conversion + import
May 15 14:33:09 <_berto_> thx
May 15 14:33:18 <X-Fade_> dneary: That sounds like a plan? :)
May 15 14:33:21 <dneary> In the meantime, I think we'll get started with reviewing the wiki content
May 15 14:33:40 <dneary> The mass conversion should be easy once I have a dump
May 15 14:33:46 <dneary> The import, I don't know how that'll work
May 15 14:52:49 <Navi> dneary, pong
May 15 14:53:04 <qwerty12> ping
May 15 14:53:20 <cjohnson> I'm trying to make a symlink, so that /home actually points to /extfs/home, I tried "ln -s /extfs/home /home" only for some reason when I go into /home there's another home folder, which is the actual folder
May 15 14:53:34 <dneary> Navi: Hi there
May 15 14:53:50 <dneary> I've started working on a plan for migrating the wikis
May 15 14:53:53 <derf> cjohnson: That's the way ln works when the target is an existing directory.
May 15 14:53:55 <qwerty12> ln -s /extfs/home /
May 15 14:54:01 <dneary> Right now it's a mess, with a big manual process for each page
May 15 14:54:17 <dneary> We're trying (with Niels) to help automate as much of it as possible
May 15 14:54:33 <Navi> mmk
May 15 14:54:40 <dneary> But it turns out that changing from markdown to mediawiki syntax isn't as straightforward as I thought it would be
May 15 14:54:40 <cjohnson> qwerty12, same result, I end up with home within home
May 15 14:55:03 <qwerty12> derf is probably right then
May 15 14:55:04 <cjohnson> derf, so how might I link my physical folder "/extfs/home" to a folder "/home" ?
May 15 14:55:09 <dneary> So, I've decided that we should review the wiki content first, and make the migration a braindead dump & load, if at all possible
May 15 14:55:18 <derf> You need to get the existing directory out of the way, first.
May 15 14:55:18 <dneary> Are you still willing to help?
May 15 14:55:30 <cjohnson> derf, i did, /home doesn't exist
May 15 14:55:34 <cjohnson> derf, I renamed it to home-bak
May 15 14:56:15 <qwerty12> I'd just try emelfm2. Works when cmd line tools doesn't.
May 15 14:56:29 <derf> Then qwerty12's suggestion should have worked.
May 15 14:57:14 <Navi> dneary, sure
May 15 14:57:18 <derf> You can also try stick a -T in front of the target, but I can't see why that would matter if it doesn't exist.
May 15 14:58:28 <cjohnson> ah, i'm retarded
May 15 14:58:37 <dneary> Navi: Rocks!
May 15 14:58:48 <cjohnson> i somehow ended up making it /extfs/home/home/user instead of /extfs/home/user
May 15 14:59:03 <Navi> dneary, just tell me what you want me to do
May 15 14:59:37 <dneary> First thing we need to do is go through https://maemo.org/community/wiki/wikireorg/ and fill out the various sections
May 15 14:59:55 <dneary> (pages to delete, pages that need updating, pages that can be archived as historical data)
May 15 15:00:22 <dneary> The (almost) complete list of pages in the wiki is here: https://maemo.org/community/wiki/wikipagelist/
May 15 15:01:26 <Navi> kk
May 15 15:02:07 <cjohnson> How can I do a commandline compare folders
May 15 15:02:20 <cjohnson> I copied /var to /extfs/var and I want to make sure it's the exact same
May 15 15:02:42 <Grackle> Well that was dumb. *dragged the wiki toolbar out of his firefox window and now he can't click on it*
May 15 15:02:54 <trickie_> cjohnson: use rsync
May 15 15:03:05 <Grackle> It's out of the rendered area... And fixed there. >.<
May 15 15:03:49 <Navi> bleh
May 15 15:03:56 <Navi> I don't remember my maemo password
May 15 15:03:58 <cjohnson> trickie_, rsync isn't on maemo
May 15 15:04:05 <jdiaz> cjohnson, you can ls > /tmp/list on both directories
May 15 15:04:10 <jdiaz> and then diff the lists
May 15 15:04:12 <qwerty12> cjohnson, it can be found
May 15 15:04:40 <jdiaz> if all you want is to compare filenames, that is
May 15 15:04:54 <trickie_> cjohnson: its around somewhere im sure, and it will ensure that all files and dirs and attributes are correctly 'replicated'
May 15 15:05:14 <cjohnson> trickie_, found it, apt-get install ftw :D
May 15 15:05:25 <trickie_> cool
May 15 15:05:30 <cjohnson> trickie_, just to make sure i'm understanding properly
May 15 15:05:32 <X-Fade_> Navi: https://garage.maemo.org/account/lostpw.php
May 15 15:05:35 <cjohnson> rsync /var /extfs/var
May 15 15:05:43 <cjohnson> is that correct to replicate /var to /extfs/var?
May 15 15:05:57 <trickie_> cjohnson: id read the man page for rsync
May 15 15:06:14 <trickie_> you probably want -a also
May 15 15:06:19 <Navi> Thanks X-Fade_
May 15 15:06:21 <trickie_> i thinks that the option
May 15 15:07:35 <sp3000> E: Couldn't find package ftw
May 15 15:07:37 <sp3000> :(
May 15 15:07:47 <jdiaz> also:
May 15 15:07:48 <sp3000> if only it were that easy
May 15 15:07:52 <Grackle> You probably want to increase verbosity as well, rsync by default is not very verbose.
May 15 15:07:55 <trickie_> cjohnson: rsync -av /var /extfs/
May 15 15:08:15 <trickie_> but read the man page as trailing slash on the src means somethign diff
May 15 15:08:19 <jdiaz> (cd /var; tar cf - )| (cd /extfs/var; tar xf -)
May 15 15:08:55 <cjohnson> trickie_, thanks :D
May 15 15:09:23 <trickie_> np
May 15 15:09:29 <||cw> --progress is a handy rsync option
May 15 15:09:29 <jdiaz> this also should work: (cd /var; tar cf - *)| (cd /extfs/var; tar xf -)
May 15 15:09:48 <trickie_> jdiaz: you probably also want to use the -p option to preserve all attributes
May 15 15:09:55 <trickie_> for a dir like var
May 15 15:09:56 <||cw> -a includes -p
May 15 15:09:57 <trickie_> but yeah
May 15 15:09:59 <jdiaz> oh yes
May 15 15:10:14 <trickie_> ||cw: well he used neither
May 15 15:10:20 <||cw> as well as others, like copy links and device files
May 15 15:10:29 <trickie_> yup
May 15 15:10:39 <||cw> but oddly, not acl's
May 15 15:11:49 <jdiaz> cjohnson, you can also use tar to finnd differences among directories
May 15 15:12:04 <cjohnson> jdiaz, I was mostly aiming for replicating a directory
May 15 15:12:12 <cjohnson> jdiaz, but how might I use tar to do that?
May 15 15:12:19 <cjohnson> jdiaz, for future reference
May 15 15:13:55 <trickie_> jdiaz: rsync -n will be faster i think
May 15 15:14:10 <trickie_> which would just show what it would do
May 15 15:14:32 <jdiaz> tri, I'm assuming that rsync is not available :-)
May 15 15:14:38 <trickie_> :)
May 15 15:14:42 <cjohnson> jdiaz, it is
May 15 15:14:47 <cjohnson> apt-get install rsync
May 15 15:14:54 <cjohnson> and i'm sure it's available on my ubuntu desktop
May 15 15:14:58 <jdiaz> then, better use rsync
May 15 15:15:06 <cjohnson> alright then
May 15 15:16:01 <Navi> :/
May 15 15:18:04 <lardman> another auto-start question
May 15 15:18:05 <lardman> !
May 15 15:18:21 <cjohnson> so here's what I've done, wondering if you guys have any thoughts about it as far as good or bad
May 15 15:18:37 <lardman> Probably deserves pride of place, along side how to open a browser at a given site, on the front page of maemo.org in big red letters
May 15 15:18:57 <cjohnson> I partitioned my internal memory card as 512MB VFAT, and 1.5GB EXT2
May 15 15:19:09 <cjohnson> then I just copied /home and /var to the EXT2 partition
May 15 15:19:53 <Navi> Wow
May 15 15:20:02 <Navi> Didn't know the username was case sensitive :/
May 15 15:20:23 <cjohnson> and now made a symlink from /extfs/var to /var (after copying /var to /extfs/var
May 15 15:20:38 <cjohnson> can you guys think of anything that might cause a problem?
May 15 15:20:54 <tank-man> what are you doing? booting from mmc ?
May 15 15:21:33 <fysa> just running var and home from ext2?
May 15 15:21:53 <cjohnson> I'm booting normally
May 15 15:22:05 <cjohnson> all I've done is move my /var and /home dirs to the ext2 partition and symlink back
May 15 15:22:05 <fysa> I'm not positive that maemo respects fstab, so make sure you are mounting these from rc.local or something.
May 15 15:22:19 <fysa> oh, I see.
May 15 15:22:52 <cjohnson> I'm just trying to get the majority of the large storage folders off the internal memory
May 15 15:23:07 <cjohnson> I'm thinking /opt and /usr as well, and just leave the rest on disk
May 15 15:23:13 <fysa> I would have just mounted the /media/mmc2/home to /home probably.  never tried symlinkg home or var.
May 15 15:23:39 <cjohnson> I was going to do mounting but my friend said that symlink is a low level, and I may have better results
May 15 15:24:03 <cjohnson> and I'm not too knowledgeable about the under the hood of mounting and symlinks and the like
May 15 15:25:38 <tank-man> why not have the root filesystem on the mmc?
May 15 15:25:49 <tank-man> and boot from it
May 15 15:26:08 <lardman> why are you moving it at all? out of space?
May 15 15:26:37 <cjohnson> I'm moving for more storage
May 15 15:26:49 <cjohnson> I have 2 sd slots and other than OS I don't plan on having much kept
May 15 15:26:51 <lardman> but do you not have enough, or just think you need more?
May 15 15:26:55 <cjohnson> so I want to use the internal to extend the internal
May 15 15:27:00 <cjohnson> I don't have enough
May 15 15:27:06 <lardman> fair enough
May 15 15:27:23 <lardman> is unionfs working yet?
May 15 15:27:46 <qwerty12> Nah, cant be arsed to work on it.
May 15 15:27:51 <Navi> heh
May 15 15:27:56 <lardman> :)
May 15 15:28:04 <lardman> would solve these sorts of problems though
May 15 15:28:25 <qwerty12> The unionfs module actually works, it's just the mmc-unionfs scripts and startup stuff is odd :)
May 15 15:28:28 <ricko73> we'll see how this behaves when in my car, but with the n810 sitting on my desk, facing the window, I have 4 or 5 sat's locked in with the internal gps
May 15 15:28:33 <cjohnson> tank-man, No particular reason not to move the root filesystem, is it much harder than my current setup?
May 15 15:28:50 <tank-man> i thikn its much easier
May 15 15:28:53 <ricko73> qwerty12: are you using unionfs or aufs?
May 15 15:28:56 * qwerty12 remembers doing a unionfs on /home/user segfaulted my N800, hehe
May 15 15:29:00 <qwerty12> ricko73, none
May 15 15:29:11 <cjohnson> tank-man, This is pretty easy to me. rsync the originating folder to the new one, then symlink back
May 15 15:29:25 <ricko73> If there is any plan to include or attempt to use one or the other, I would strongly suggest aufs over unionfs
May 15 15:29:56 <tank-man> booting from mmc is about the same steps, clone / to the mmc and then run the initfs_flash program to make it boot from mmc
May 15 15:30:28 <qwerty12> ricko73, hmm. Good point. I didn't know about that when I did a bad port of mmc-unionfs to OS2008 N800 2.6.21 kernel.
May 15 15:30:30 <cjohnson> How long can I expect, realistically, the internal flash to last as far as read/writes
May 15 15:30:59 <tank-man> probably long enough to not worry about it
May 15 15:31:20 <ricko73> as long as log files aren't written to it, you shouldn't have to worry about it
May 15 15:32:27 <qwerty12> Aii, gronmayer is down !
May 15 15:33:56 <lardman> cjohnson: at least 100,000 cycles per block
May 15 15:34:12 <lardman> probably far more now, as that was the spec for the Zaurus sl5500
May 15 15:34:19 <cjohnson> Which would translate to how long, time-wise, roughly?
May 15 15:34:33 <lardman> depends on how much free space you have
May 15 15:34:46 <cjohnson> before i started moving files to the mmc, about 64 megs
May 15 15:34:57 <lardman> as that will concentrate wear on those blocks, unless jffs2 is more intelligent than I give it credit for
May 15 15:35:21 <lardman> so assume the wear leveling works perfectly, and you only get one write per block per 64Mb written
May 15 15:35:21 <Navi> qwerty12, was down yesterday night too
May 15 15:35:24 <Navi> johnx, ping
May 15 15:35:49 <lardman> cjohnson: lots of small files will increase the wear rate as the blocks are usually largish
May 15 15:35:53 <cjohnson> Would an MMC card last roughly as long? I don't mind moving all the read/writes to the MMC, and just getting a new one when the current one wears out, as long as it's a whole lot shorter life span
May 15 15:35:55 <qwerty12> Navi, Hmm, I actually decided to get some sleep y/day :/
May 15 15:36:27 <lardman> cjohnson: your device will be in a museum before you need to worry about it
May 15 15:36:34 <Navi> qwerty12, :)
May 15 15:36:44 <cjohnson> Awesome :D
May 15 15:36:47 <qwerty12> :)
May 15 15:37:19 <lardman> cjohnson: just thinnk about it, you could write 64Mb to that space repeatedly 100 times a day for ~3 years
May 15 15:37:58 <lardman> or 3 times a day for 100 years, which sounds better :)
May 15 15:38:00 <cjohnson> I'm a poor college student, 3 years isn't a long time between upgrades :P
May 15 15:38:26 * qwerty12 is compiling synaptic again. Since I have diablo and newer apt. It should work. But I have a feeling I may have to modify mmap patch for synaptic.
May 15 15:38:51 <lardman> cjohnson: I wouldn't worry; not worth the hassle of moving things piecemeal
May 15 15:39:02 <cjohnson> piecemeal? I've never heard the term
May 15 15:39:11 <lardman> cjohnson: bit by bit
May 15 15:39:34 <cjohnson> Alright. Thanks for the advice :D
May 15 15:40:02 <lardman> cjohnson: run the whole system from an SD card if you must (but it's laggy imo)
May 15 15:40:09 <lardman> np
May 15 15:40:30 <cjohnson> I'll just stick with internal and expand to SD for the larger folders
May 15 15:42:15 <tank-man> laggy?
May 15 15:42:24 <fysa> lardman, SD slower than internal flash?
May 15 15:42:35 <fysa> do you have benchmarks of the internal flash?
May 15 15:43:09 <lardman> fysa: no, but the system feels slow
May 15 15:43:16 <tank-man> benchmarks will wear it out faster ! ;)
May 15 15:43:18 <lardman> fysa: just a subjective impression
May 15 15:43:20 <fysa> using updated kernel?
May 15 15:43:28 <lardman> fysa: no
May 15 15:43:54 <tank-man> it feels faster booting from mmc cause filesystem isnt compressed
May 15 15:45:35 <fysa> hmm, my pastebin URLs didn't get logged for some reason
May 15 15:46:33 <fysa> http://pastebin.com/f699c99
May 15 15:47:06 <fysa> bonnie against N800 with 48MHz MMC patch, Transcend 8GB Class 6 SDHC and 16GB Class 6 SDHC.   (the 8 is twice as fast)
May 15 15:47:36 <fysa> that is with vfat only.
May 15 15:47:41 <fysa> still need to test with ext2..
May 15 15:48:19 <fysa> have not benchmarked internal flash, but believe this 8GB card would be favorable against it.
May 15 15:49:00 <fysa> and have not tried without the MMC speed patch.
May 15 15:49:57 <qwerty12> If you run linux, you could /boot/ not flash using standard kernel.
May 15 15:51:50 <lardman> fysa: yes, I imagine things are probably significantly better now
May 15 15:52:10 <lardman> fysa: as long as the card doesn't go tits up
May 15 15:52:11 <lardman> :)
May 15 15:52:32 <cjohnson> mmc speed patch?
May 15 15:52:35 <fysa> rsyncd is on my list. ;)
May 15 15:52:56 <qwerty12> cjohnson, check fanoush's website
May 15 15:54:24 <cjohnson> thanks
May 15 15:56:59 <cjohnson> crap
May 15 15:57:07 <cjohnson> rsync doesn't copy permissions?
May 15 15:57:24 <||cw> cjohnson: -p, or -a
May 15 15:57:31 <cjohnson> I did -a
May 15 15:57:34 <||cw> fat32?
May 15 15:57:38 <cjohnson> ext2
May 15 15:57:44 <cjohnson> crap crap crap
May 15 15:57:56 <||cw> it does for me
May 15 15:58:13 <||cw> maybe you have a cut down version?
May 15 15:59:18 <cjohnson> I did apt-get install rsync
May 15 15:59:59 <cjohnson> I dunno, here's what happened. I copied /var and /home to my MMC ext2 partition, then renamed the originals and symlinked the MMC one in place of the other
May 15 16:00:00 <cjohnson> so
May 15 16:00:36 <cjohnson>  /var -> /extfs/var
May 15 16:00:53 <cjohnson> only I just tried to get on the device and like all the theming and wallpaper are no longer there
May 15 16:01:47 <cjohnson> I just chown'ed and chmod'ed my /home dir back to normal, but the skins aren't working properly
May 15 16:01:52 <cjohnson> so I'm imagining /var is messed up
May 15 16:02:26 <cjohnson> I'm gonna reboot and see if that fixes
May 15 16:05:27 <cjohnson> hm, that did it
May 15 16:06:49 <summatusmentis> johnx: are you around?
May 15 16:09:42 <brlancer> I've recorded something in iLBC format on my n770 and need to convert it to soemthing more universal; can anyone recommend a *nix utility to do the conversion?
May 15 16:12:15 <Navi> summatusmentis, what do you need?
May 15 16:12:38 <qwerty12> johnx wisdom'? :P (joke)
May 15 16:12:56 <summatusmentis> Navi: I was told that johnx was the resident Z guy here, and I've got some questions regarding n810 vs. Z
May 15 16:13:07 <Navi> Ah, right
May 15 16:13:12 <Navi> You missed him a few hours ago
May 15 16:13:32 <summatusmentis> I was sleeping a few hours ago :)
May 15 16:13:44 * qwerty12 was in school a few hours ago
May 15 16:13:45 <hrw> summatusmentis: what kind of questions?
May 15 16:14:08 <summatusmentis> mostly comparisons regarding the n810 vs the 3200
May 15 16:14:13 <hrw> ah
May 15 16:14:22 <hrw> I only had c3000 for short time
May 15 16:15:06 <summatusmentis> you've stopped using Zs altogether, right hrw ?
May 15 16:15:23 <qwerty12> N8*0 ftw
May 15 16:15:37 <qwerty12> (I'm the resident idiot :P)
May 15 16:16:05 <summatusmentis> lol, ok :)
May 15 16:16:39 <hrw> summatusmentis: yes - I stopped
May 15 16:16:47 <hrw> summatusmentis: my c7x0 is in a bad state
May 15 16:17:21 <summatusmentis> hrw: iirc I read your blog post about it
May 15 16:22:44 <summatusmentis> hrw: do you use a nokia tablet the same way you used your Z?
May 15 16:23:00 <hrw> hard to tell
May 15 16:23:14 <hrw> nokia tablets lack any pim which I would like to use
May 15 16:23:20 <Cptnodegard> wtf is a Z?
May 15 16:23:23 <GeneralAntilles> Zaurus
May 15 16:23:24 <hrw> Cptnodegard: zaurus
May 15 16:23:50 <GeneralAntilles> This soft poweroff bug is a little ridiculous.
May 15 16:23:56 <GeneralAntilles> Just ship the goddamn fix. :\
May 15 16:24:02 <hrw> summatusmentis: pimlico dates 0.4.x is too simple, libjana based Dates is openmoko only.
May 15 16:24:18 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, Or rather the source :/
May 15 16:24:19 <hrw> summatusmentis: gpe pim does not use same contacts base as nokia one
May 15 16:24:37 <hrw> and nokia contacts app is more limited then my phone one
May 15 16:24:41 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, we all know that wont happen in any of our lifetimes. :P
May 15 16:24:58 <hrw> summatusmentis: my phone can use 2MPix pictures in contacts - maemo ver does not
May 15 16:25:03 <qwerty12> Hehe true, I wonder how Austin made powerlaunch...
May 15 16:25:08 <summatusmentis> and it's a different build system than OE, iirc.
May 15 16:25:16 <GeneralAntilles> The fix has been made, they're just not shipping it because it's "unsupported"
May 15 16:25:43 <qwerty12> Idiots.
May 15 16:25:51 <qwerty12> (I mean Nokia :P)
May 15 16:25:53 <hrw> summatusmentis: that does not matter.
May 15 16:25:54 <summatusmentis> how extendable is maemo? Can I get a terminal, ssh, web/email(thunderbird, ideally), office programs?
May 15 16:26:09 <hrw> summatusmentis: as long as sources are provided OE can build maemo apps
May 15 16:26:35 <summatusmentis> hrw: I see
May 15 16:27:13 <hrw> summatusmentis: terminal, abiword, gnumeric are present
May 15 16:27:37 <hrw> summatusmentis: web browsers better then internal one are also present. no idea about thunderbird
May 15 16:28:07 <summatusmentis> do the web browsers work? that is one of my biggest issues on my Z right now
May 15 16:29:05 <hrw> summatusmentis: it is *internet* tablet
May 15 16:29:10 <qwerty12> :/
May 15 16:29:19 <hrw> summatusmentis: at least nokia provided one (microb) works
May 15 16:29:27 <hrw> summatusmentis: it is not rocket but works
May 15 16:30:04 <GeneralAntilles> hrw, there are no browsers better than the built-in one available. :\
May 15 16:30:11 <summatusmentis> hrw: that's true. Fair enough
May 15 16:30:26 <qwerty12> Fennec - How well does that work?
May 15 16:30:34 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, LIES. links FTW
May 15 16:30:36 <qwerty12> :P
May 15 16:30:43 <GeneralAntilles> Well, OK, if you throw in console stuff.
May 15 16:30:55 <qwerty12> Hehe, I'm joking. Links sux :p
May 15 16:31:05 <GeneralAntilles> But fennec/minefield is broken as shit, as is WebKit right now.
May 15 16:31:20 <GeneralAntilles> Sure, they're going to get better, but right now, they really don't hold a candle to MicroB as far as usability goes.
May 15 16:31:28 <lcdd> microb tends to crash on me like netscape back in the day. don't remember it if did that on a clean system
May 15 16:31:40 <GeneralAntilles> Hasn't crashed on me in a long while.
May 15 16:32:04 <qwerty12> :/
May 15 16:32:08 <lardman> re
May 15 16:32:15 <qwerty12> hi
May 15 16:32:21 <lardman> hey qwerty12
May 15 16:32:48 <qwerty12> It is guaranteed I get at least 1 crash everyday in microb.
May 15 16:32:51 <qwerty12> lardman, :)
May 15 16:33:01 <GeneralAntilles> Site preferences have a lot to do with it
May 15 16:33:05 <ricko73> qwerty12: I got more crashes on the original firmware than the latest
May 15 16:33:16 <GeneralAntilles> Also, I suspect your insane plugin count doesn't help, qwerty12.
May 15 16:33:24 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, all clean now :)
May 15 16:33:35 <lardman> I find it too slow to use really
May 15 16:33:38 <lardman> shame
May 15 16:33:43 <GeneralAntilles> MicroB/
May 15 16:33:46 <GeneralAntilles> You're kidding.
May 15 16:33:54 <qwerty12> ricko73, Stock chinook is buggy as shit. SVN was great. Diablo isn't great either.
May 15 16:34:03 <GeneralAntilles> Diablo isn't finalized.
May 15 16:34:04 <lardman> no, just lots of waiting; annoys me
May 15 16:34:23 <GeneralAntilles> Meh, it's better than any other web browser I've ever stuck in my pocket.
May 15 16:34:26 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, true. But a SVN would have been nice.
May 15 16:34:34 <GeneralAntilles> You want blazing fast, carry around a Core 2 laptop. :P
May 15 16:34:41 * qwerty12 still <3's NetFront on my PPC.
May 15 16:34:51 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: any firefox 3b5 based sould be faster then microb
May 15 16:34:56 <Navi> GeneralAntilles, the best browser I've ever stuck in my pocket up 'till now is the PSP browser :D
May 15 16:35:14 <GeneralAntilles> hrw, well duh. :P
May 15 16:35:17 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: most of the time I'm within 2 min walk of a Core2 desktop, so perhaps that's why I don't use it much
May 15 16:35:30 <qwerty12> Navi, PSP browser sux :P. I hate my PSP for web browsing.
May 15 16:35:36 <Navi> It's fun
May 15 16:35:37 <Navi> :P
May 15 16:35:45 <GeneralAntilles> But the frontends on all the 3b5 stuff are all either crashy as hell or slow as hell.
May 15 16:36:19 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, I browse with mine all the time within spitting distance of my G5 powerhouse. :P
May 15 16:36:20 <qwerty12> Navi, Input is great, I prefer it to my N800 on that score but memory sucks. Should sell it and get a slim and lite. But I need to make pandora battery first :p
May 15 16:36:38 <summatusmentis> I know this is the maemo channel, are there alternate 'roms' for the N8*0 series?
May 15 16:36:51 <qwerty12> Poky off the top of my head
May 15 16:36:53 <qwerty12> Debian
May 15 16:36:53 <Navi> qwerty12, I'm comfortable enough to bust open the batteries and mod them myself.
May 15 16:36:56 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: You're more tolerant then; dare I say it, I prefer my gf's iPod touch for web browsing
May 15 16:37:01 <hrw> summatusmentis: s/roms/distros and then we can talk
May 15 16:37:03 <GeneralAntilles> Ugh
May 15 16:37:09 <GeneralAntilles> The iPhone pisses me off when browsing.
May 15 16:37:15 <qwerty12> Navi, my electronic skills suckzors.
May 15 16:37:17 <GeneralAntilles> It's no faster than MicroB
May 15 16:37:18 <Navi> iPhone = crash
May 15 16:37:26 <summatusmentis> hrw: ah yes, sorry. are there alternate distros for the N8*0 series?
May 15 16:37:28 <GeneralAntilles> and the spacebar is in the wrong place. :\
May 15 16:37:37 <Navi> Hey look guys, I can go to GOO... wait, Safari crashed
May 15 16:37:51 <qwerty12> Tell me what goes after GOO!
May 15 16:37:51 <hrw> summatusmentis: thx to nokia there is no alternative distro for nokia tablets
May 15 16:37:51 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: probably not, but the random delays between rendering and accepting input in microb drive me scatty
May 15 16:37:52 <GeneralAntilles> The lower resolution is also a huge pain.
May 15 16:37:54 <Navi> Okay, I got on Goog... it crashed again.
May 15 16:37:59 <qwerty12> MOAR
May 15 16:38:04 <qwerty12> I need more letters
May 15 16:38:07 <summatusmentis> hrw: hardware lockout?
May 15 16:38:15 <Navi> WOO, Google loaded!
May 15 16:38:19 <qwerty12> summatusmentis, Closed source components
May 15 16:38:23 <lardman> ipod keyboard is very very crap though
May 15 16:38:25 <hrw> summatusmentis: the ones that exists lack features (Poky) or use maemo as base (Debian rootfs)
May 15 16:38:26 <qwerty12> Navi, thats all it was :( :P
May 15 16:38:32 <Navi> >_>
May 15 16:38:41 <hrw> summatusmentis: closed battery/wifi support
May 15 16:38:50 <summatusmentis> :-/ sadface
May 15 16:38:55 <Navi> Who's using Debian rootfs?
May 15 16:39:08 <hrw> Navi: no idea - but there are people which use it
May 15 16:39:18 <summatusmentis> what is mamona?
May 15 16:39:33 <GeneralAntilles> Completely open source replacement for maemo.
May 15 16:39:37 <Navi> summatusmentis, project that wants to be a fully open
May 15 16:39:38 <lardman> OE/Poky based distro, but not sure if it actually runs
May 15 16:39:48 <hrw> summatusmentis: mamona is OE based distro for tablets
May 15 16:39:51 <summatusmentis> I see, so not usable, if even runnable
May 15 16:40:06 <Navi> It runs, I think
May 15 16:40:13 <lardman> does it sit ontop of the initfs? If so it should be usable at least
May 15 16:40:14 <Navi> There have been videos
May 15 16:40:20 <hrw> summatusmentis: same limits apply like in other distros (use maemo or lack features)
May 15 16:40:44 <summatusmentis> are there software repos for maemo?
May 15 16:40:55 <lardman> hrw: have you seen the posts about the internals of bme?
May 15 16:40:58 <Navi> If wifi and power management were open, we'd be set on a lot of things :(
May 15 16:41:37 <summatusmentis> and presumably neither of those will open up anytime soon
May 15 16:41:41 <lardman> is wifi still not a binary blob+wrapper?
May 15 16:41:56 <hrw> lardman: no time ;(
May 15 16:42:11 <qwerty12> Wimax edition won't help (moar security) . Look in diablo initfs (if you can't be arsed to extract, I've got a tarball)
May 15 16:42:16 <hrw> lardman: for 2.6.16-2.6.21 we can make umac.ko ->binary blog
May 15 16:42:24 <hrw> lardman: for 2.6.25 it does not work anymore
May 15 16:42:27 <Navi> ZOMG VIRUZES
May 15 16:42:42 <Blastur> hey! i just got my n810.. man its nice! it even managed to pair with my phone and connect to the internet.. i've been trying to do this myself using a PC for a week now, without any success.. the n810 did it automatically ;-)
May 15 16:42:52 <qwerty12> Hehe nice :)
May 15 16:43:04 <Blastur> i got some questions though.. can i use the mail client for SSL imap4?
May 15 16:43:20 <lardman> hrw: looks dangerous the bme stuff
May 15 16:43:40 <konttori> Blastur: yeah, nokia knows connectivity
May 15 16:44:06 <lardman> hrw: you going to LinuxTag?
May 15 16:44:18 <qwerty12> konttori, the irony if they didn't...
May 15 16:44:18 * konttori will be going to linuxtag as well
May 15 16:44:24 <konttori> true
May 15 16:44:27 <summatusmentis> integrated GPS? I didn't know that
May 15 16:44:41 <summatusmentis> does it need a net connection for the GPS to work? presumably not
May 15 16:44:50 <trickie> lardman: my thoughts exactly
May 15 16:45:20 <cjohnson> Alright guys, small problem now. When I go to the lock screen (by pressing the power button once) it's not themed
May 15 16:45:21 <lardman> konttori: helps to go to present hey ;)
May 15 16:45:24 <hrw> lardman: plan to
May 15 16:45:25 <qwerty12> summatusmentis, Nay. Although GPS perf sucks. Planned A-GPS upgrade will need phone afaik.
May 15 16:45:30 <cjohnson> whereas the rest of the OS is themed
May 15 16:45:34 <cjohnson> any clue why that may be?
May 15 16:45:40 <lardman> trickie: with a few spare devices I might play; but I wouldn't want to write my one and only off
May 15 16:45:55 <summatusmentis> hrw: have you used an n810? how's the keyboard in comparison to a 3x00 series?
May 15 16:45:59 <lardman> hrw: cool, will have to buy you a beer or two
May 15 16:46:01 <summatusmentis> qwerty12: GPS perf?
May 15 16:46:04 <trickie> lardman: yes, i am umming and arrring about fiddling
May 15 16:46:11 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, word is that you'll be able to supply the "A" part by tapping your location on a world map if you have an internet connection.
May 15 16:46:12 <qwerty12> summatusmentis, GPS performance.
May 15 16:46:21 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, Ahh
May 15 16:46:38 <trickie> lardman: id really like to get battery charging working for my 2.6.25-omap+mamona system
May 15 16:46:41 <GeneralAntilles> Who knows if that'll hit a release, though.
May 15 16:46:47 <summatusmentis> qwerty12: like, unusable sucks? or just not wonderful
May 15 16:46:56 <konttori> lardman: what will you present there?
May 15 16:46:57 <qwerty12> I need to try and file my first bugzilla or vote for the existing one.
May 15 16:47:01 <trickie> lardman: ATM i boot staright to mmc, and then chroot to initfs to start bme
May 15 16:47:04 <qwerty12> summatusmentis, takes ages to get lock.
May 15 16:47:09 <trickie> lardman: but it doesn't charge the battery
May 15 16:47:13 <GeneralAntilles> Depends, summatusmentis, lot of people use it just fine, others have issues getting a lock at all.
May 15 16:47:22 <lardman> trickie: good luck! :)
May 15 16:47:22 <GeneralAntilles> Startup is the real problem, it's OK once it gets locked.
May 15 16:47:39 <qwerty12> I'm a pessimist so I presume most people have lock problems.
May 15 16:47:56 <summatusmentis> ok, but generally usable
May 15 16:47:59 <trickie> lardman: ta, don't think ill get far without more documentation, my electronics knowledge sux
May 15 16:48:09 <hrw> summatusmentis: from Zaurus line I prefer c7x0 keyboard due to longer use of it. n810 keyboard differ a lot from zaurus ones. but is usable
May 15 16:48:16 <trickie> lardman: but im working on a replacement for dsme which is slowly starting to look ok
May 15 16:48:19 <qwerty12> summatusmentis, Yes, like General says, Lock sucks but brilliant once locked.
May 15 16:48:31 <summatusmentis> hmm
May 15 16:48:32 <GeneralAntilles> With GPS, YMMV
May 15 16:48:42 <GeneralAntilles> The goodnews is that it's largely a software issue.
May 15 16:48:45 <GeneralAntilles> and they're working on it.
May 15 16:48:57 <lardman> trickie: what does the replacement need to do?
May 15 16:49:03 <hrw> summatusmentis: gps suxx in general. it is not usable for car navigation for sure
May 15 16:49:17 <lardman> hrw: is it that bad?
May 15 16:49:19 <summatusmentis> interesting. Is the wifi 802.11g? what's the range on that?
May 15 16:49:30 <GeneralAntilles> hrw, a lot of people seem to use it for car nav just fine.
May 15 16:49:44 <GeneralAntilles> wifi range is about the best I've seen in any mobile device.
May 15 16:49:45 <summatusmentis> my wifi cf card for my Zaurus has lots of issues with range
May 15 16:49:49 <qwerty12> hrw, is your problem maps?
May 15 16:49:51 <hrw> lardman: show me finger usable navigation application for maemo. with offline routing and detour planning
May 15 16:50:00 <ricko73> the wifi is better than most of the laptops I've used
May 15 16:50:12 <lardman> hrw: I'm planning on fiddling with Navit, not much use for you I know
May 15 16:50:14 <trickie> lardman: well just set up some power management prefs, kick the watchdog and *hopefully* either get bme running
May 15 16:50:20 <hrw> summatusmentis: wifi is nice and system has it nice integrated
May 15 16:50:21 <trickie> lardman: thats my plan ATM
May 15 16:50:23 <lardman> trickie: email me off list
May 15 16:50:32 <trickie> sure
May 15 16:50:32 <cjohnson> How can I reinstall the OS for my n800? It just keeps rebooting
May 15 16:50:40 <qwerty12> Reflash it
May 15 16:50:43 <hrw> cjohnson: google: maemo flashing
May 15 16:50:58 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: many people use nokia 3210 phones too.
May 15 16:50:59 <summatusmentis> hrw: that was part of my issue on the Zaurus, wifi seemed to be an afterthought
May 15 16:51:13 <qwerty12> I'm intrested to see how diablo fiasco-flasher will work.
May 15 16:51:28 <qwerty12> hrw, I found that out too. Started taking the piss out of him.
May 15 16:52:08 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: I had occassion to use tomtom navigator software. maemo mapper of navifinder suxx compared to it. no way to enter street name with finger, no usable prediction during entering name, no detour planning
May 15 16:52:43 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, dedicated solutions are generally better than non-dedicated. ;)
May 15 16:52:48 <Blastur> hmm.. can i make apps install themself on the internal memory card, rather than on the flash?
May 15 16:52:50 <GeneralAntilles> My point was more hardware related, anyway.
May 15 16:52:56 <Blastur> im running out of memory on the flash ..
May 15 16:52:59 <GeneralAntilles> Maemo Mapper suits all of my in-car GPS needs just fine.
May 15 16:53:13 <GeneralAntilles> Blastur, first, klil the 40MB of just in MyDocs
May 15 16:53:15 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: I will show you my recent track
May 15 16:53:35 <GeneralAntilles> Documentation pdfs, movies, music
May 15 16:53:49 <hrw> what is crappy in n810 gps is that you have to leave n810 in car for 10 minutes to get fix
May 15 16:53:53 <hrw> then you can drive
May 15 16:53:54 <GeneralAntilles> That'll hold you over for a while, but booting from SD may be something you want to think about.
May 15 16:54:03 <GeneralAntilles> hrw, like I said, lots of people don't have any issues.
May 15 16:54:20 <hrw> I know
May 15 16:54:30 <Blastur> GeneralAntilles, still, i'd like to know if its possible :) is it?
May 15 16:54:33 <lardman> where is __BYTE_ORDER defined?
May 15 16:54:41 <summatusmentis> hrw: how does th n8x00 series compare in size to a 3x00 series Zaurus?
May 15 16:54:50 <GeneralAntilles> Sure, but it's stupidly pointless when you can just boot from the SD.
May 15 16:55:04 <hrw> summatusmentis: much smaller
May 15 16:55:13 <hrw> summatusmentis: really pocketable
May 15 16:55:19 <cjohnson> I can't shut my n800 off
May 15 16:55:20 <summatusmentis> in all dimensions? it looks long
May 15 16:55:23 <cjohnson> holding power doesn't do anything
May 15 16:55:24 <Blastur> GeneralAntilles: what?
May 15 16:55:39 <hrw> summatusmentis: I can keep n810 in back pocket. c7x0 does not fit there.
May 15 16:55:54 <cjohnson> sorry, holding the power button restarts it
May 15 16:55:56 <cjohnson> doesn't shut it off
May 15 16:55:57 <hrw> summatusmentis: n810 is ~1cm longer then c7x0
May 15 16:55:57 <qwerty12> cjohnson, /etc/init.d/mce stop & /etc/init.d/mce start and see any errors. Run as root.
May 15 16:55:58 <GeneralAntilles> You could symlink /usr/bin to the card, but that just doubles the opportunities for things to break.
May 15 16:56:08 <cjohnson> qwerty12, I can't even boot the OS
May 15 16:56:13 <cjohnson> qwerty12, that's why I want to flash it
May 15 16:56:23 <summatusmentis> hrw: interesting
May 15 16:56:24 <GeneralAntilles> Better to just install the OS on an xGB SD partition and boot from that.
May 15 16:56:28 <cjohnson> qwerty12, It shows NOKIA and then the blue loading bar, then just reboots
May 15 16:56:37 <qwerty12> cjohnson, unplug battery.
May 15 16:56:50 <cjohnson> qwerty12, I know I sound retarded, but I can't really figure out how haha
May 15 16:57:06 <qwerty12> Hehe, I needed long nails for my first go.
May 15 16:57:20 <qwerty12> When it is about to reboot, shove in a usb cable and hold home.
May 15 16:57:21 <summatusmentis> I like the slide out keyboard
May 15 16:57:27 <GeneralAntilles> Just tap it on your palm.
May 15 16:57:29 <GeneralAntilles> Gently
May 15 16:57:32 <GeneralAntilles> on the edge
May 15 16:57:34 <GeneralAntilles> It'll pop right out.
May 15 16:57:49 <GeneralAntilles> Or follow qwerty12's suggestion.
May 15 16:58:14 <cjohnson> that' seems to have done it, with the USB and home
May 15 16:58:16 <cjohnson> did that shut it off?
May 15 16:58:22 <GeneralAntilles> No
May 15 16:58:26 <qwerty12> No, it's in flashing mode.
May 15 16:58:31 <hrw> summatusmentis: http://blog.haerwu.biz/tmp/DSC00507.JPG
May 15 16:58:33 <qwerty12> Which you want anyway.
May 15 16:58:34 <GeneralAntilles> You just caught the it soon enough to enter flashing mode.
May 15 16:59:08 <summatusmentis> hrw: that's your c7x0?
May 15 16:59:17 <hrw> summatusmentis: http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/01/11/keyboard-in-palmtops/ is also worth reading
May 15 16:59:21 <hrw> summatusmentis: yes
May 15 16:59:53 <Blastur> by the way, is it OK to use any mini-USB cable to connect to the n810? or is there something special with the one included?
May 15 17:00:26 <hrw> Blastur: I use nokia miniusb cable (but from 770) with many devices and vice versa
May 15 17:00:49 <GeneralAntilles> N810 is MicroUSB
May 15 17:01:04 <hrw> ah right
May 15 17:01:11 <GeneralAntilles> The bigger issue would be finding another device that's micro and comes bundled with a cable. ;)
May 15 17:01:21 <GeneralAntilles> It's just standard USB, so any standard cable will work.
May 15 17:01:26 <summatusmentis> hrw: thanks, that was helpful. I didn't like the collie keyboard
May 15 17:01:53 <cjohnson> I can't seem a tutorial for n800 from windows, only the n770 or in linux
May 15 17:01:57 <cjohnson> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithWindows/
May 15 17:02:00 <cjohnson> that's the 770 only
May 15 17:02:06 <hrw> cjohnson: procedure is same
May 15 17:02:25 <GeneralAntilles> https://www.nokiausa.com/A4686320
May 15 17:02:38 <summatusmentis> and the n810 is the only one w/ the external keyboard, right?
May 15 17:02:49 <GeneralAntilles> Internal, you mean. :P
May 15 17:02:59 <GeneralAntilles> N810 and the N810 WiMAX Edition if we're being accurate.
May 15 17:03:14 <summatusmentis> erm, yes, with a hardware keyboard is what I meant :)
May 15 17:03:31 <summatusmentis> ok, but WiMAX is still an N810
May 15 17:03:47 <summatusmentis> also, not available yet?
May 15 17:03:52 <GeneralAntilles> A black N810 with a tumor, yes.
May 15 17:04:27 <RST38h> "Intel Denies Atomic iPhone Rumor"
May 15 17:04:40 <GeneralAntilles> That'd be a stupid move.
May 15 17:04:44 <RST38h> yep
May 15 17:04:51 <GeneralAntilles> Where do people pull these rumors from?
May 15 17:04:58 <RST38h> But a biger pad based on Atom would not be too bad
May 15 17:04:58 <qwerty12> RST38h, any inside info? AFAIR, you work for intel :)
May 15 17:05:05 <qwerty12> I won't snitch :p
May 15 17:05:06 <summatusmentis> hrw: do you have Neo1973?
May 15 17:05:12 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: http://blog.haerwu.biz/tmp/screenshot01.png
May 15 17:05:15 <hrw> summatusmentis: 2 of them
May 15 17:05:16 <RST38h> qwerty; They did not deny it to me personally, if that is what you mean
May 15 17:05:18 <GeneralAntilles> iPhone with 30 minute battery life. <_<
May 15 17:05:27 <qwerty12> RST38h, :)
May 15 17:05:33 <summatusmentis> hrw: what do you think of the N8x0 series compared to that?
May 15 17:05:43 <hrw> summatusmentis: neo1973 suxx in general
May 15 17:05:49 <RST38h> They will actually be able to pull an hour or two out of it
May 15 17:05:58 <RST38h> Not more though
May 15 17:06:21 <summatusmentis> hrw: well, yes. I guess what I'm asking is would a FreeRunner(with bad GSM coverage) be more worth it?
May 15 17:06:24 * qwerty12 wants to see appleenvy for OS2008 :(
May 15 17:06:39 <hrw> summatusmentis: I prefer n810 over gta01/gta02
May 15 17:06:41 <RST38h> what happened on April 26?
May 15 17:06:55 <hrw> summatusmentis: better formfactor
May 15 17:07:45 <summatusmentis> hrw: you tether to your phone?
May 15 17:08:01 <GeneralAntilles> tethering is dead easy.
May 15 17:09:13 <summatusmentis> GeneralAntilles: that's what I've heard. I don't have a data plan on my phone right now, but I'm considering options for the future
May 15 17:09:24 <hrw> summatusmentis: gta01/02 case is a brick
May 15 17:09:32 <hrw> big, thick brick
May 15 17:09:46 <summatusmentis> hrw: It doesn't look that much bigger than a... palm centro
May 15 17:09:51 <hrw> summatusmentis: my current phone is ~half of gta0[1-2] size
May 15 17:09:54 <summatusmentis> maybe a bit longer
May 15 17:10:16 <hrw> summatusmentis: I would rather spend cash on htc diamond then openmoko freerunner
May 15 17:10:33 <summatusmentis> hrw: but... windows mobile </disgust>
May 15 17:10:34 <MangoFusion> n95 for me!
May 15 17:10:37 <RST38h> hrw: Be careful what you wish for
May 15 17:10:43 <hrw> summatusmentis: so what. it works
May 15 17:10:44 <RST38h> diamond runs winmobile
May 15 17:10:58 <hrw> summatusmentis: with openmoko you do not know which toolkit they prefer in this week
May 15 17:11:17 <summatusmentis> hrw: you seem bitter from your time in the OE world :)
May 15 17:11:53 <hrw> summatusmentis: take gta01 into hand and then rethink
May 15 17:12:15 <summatusmentis> hrw: I only know people w/ gta01 on the internet
May 15 17:12:26 <qwerty12> gta1 is old. it's all about gta iv now,
May 15 17:12:34 <hrw> summatusmentis: time to go to some conference then
May 15 17:12:40 * GeneralAntilles guns down qwerty12.
May 15 17:12:59 * qwerty12 gets rocket launcher and targets GeneralAntilles 
May 15 17:13:05 <summatusmentis> hrw: well, if there were conferences in the US that weren't in california, I'd consider it :)
May 15 17:13:15 * qwerty12 does evil laugh and gets 3 stars and runs from police
May 15 17:13:27 <lopz> re
May 15 17:13:39 <summatusmentis> qwerty12: for a minute there, I thought you were talking about GTA04
May 15 17:13:47 * GeneralAntilles respawns and runs qwerty12 down doing 180 in a Ron Fellows "Coquette".
May 15 17:13:54 <summatusmentis> the generation of OpenMoko after FreeRunner :)
May 15 17:13:58 <GeneralAntilles> That one made me laugh.
May 15 17:14:04 <qwerty12> lol
May 15 17:14:55 <Grackle> GTA4 is a lovely game. *put a few hours in on his friend's 46" HDTV*
May 15 17:15:05 <summatusmentis> hrw: so, if I understand correctly, your choice would go c7x0 > C3x00 > N8x0 > htc diamond > freerunner
May 15 17:15:06 * qwerty12 kills hospital ppl for taking my weapon and gets PCJ and does a drive by on GeneralAntilles 
May 15 17:15:10 <Grackle> Alas, I am no longer at college. Sadface.
May 15 17:15:13 <qwerty12> summatusmentis, I was :)
May 15 17:15:38 <summatusmentis> qwerty12: lol
May 15 17:15:44 <GeneralAntilles> I play on a 17" trinitron from 2001.
May 15 17:15:49 <GeneralAntilles> Much sharper than any HDTV. :D
May 15 17:16:08 <hrw> summatusmentis: no
May 15 17:17:14 <hrw> summatusmentis: c7x0 -> n810 for palmtop line. ericsson a2618s -> alcatel 501 -> nokia 6310i -> sonyericsson k750i -> some *usable* smartphone (so no openmoko)
May 15 17:17:35 <hrw> for phone line
May 15 17:17:47 <summatusmentis> hrw: I see, so 3x00 doesn't even qualify for you
May 15 17:17:59 <molkko> how to troubleshoot: flasher-3.0 says "suitable USB device not found, waiting". n810 connected and I think everything is in order
May 15 17:18:08 <hrw> summatusmentis: I had c3000 for few months. too thick
May 15 17:18:12 <GeneralAntilles> Did you start the N810 correctly?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 15 17:18:19 2008

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 15 17:20:14 2008
May 15 17:33:28 * qwerty12 has got pulseaudio half compiled. I'm gonna crap myself trying to install it on my tablet though :/
May 15 17:39:48 <summatusmentis> is there a wiki or something somewhere of stuff that people have done w/ their tablets?
May 15 17:40:28 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Personal_Accounts
May 15 17:40:40 <Grackle> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/
May 15 17:41:20 <Grackle> Oh, specific stuff.
May 15 17:41:57 <Grackle> Well, the itt wiki does have a lot of pages on random things that people are working on. http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian for instance
May 15 17:50:57 <mrlanrat> Is there any way to help OS 2008 get a DHCP IP address?
May 15 17:52:44 <mrlanrat> My N810 latly has had great dificulty getting an IP from my schools DHCP server.
May 15 17:54:25 <Grackle> That's strange. Do you have a laptop to test the network with? It may not be your N810's fault.
May 15 17:54:33 <Grackle> In fact, I would be kind of surprised if it was.
May 15 17:54:45 <mrlanrat> I think it is
May 15 17:54:57 <Grackle> Why's that?
May 15 17:55:20 <mrlanrat> sevral freinds with ipod toutches can connect no problem. same with my laptop when iIdo bring it.
May 15 17:55:48 <mrlanrat> this used to only happen every now and then, not it has happend for the last sevral days.
May 15 17:56:11 <mrlanrat> it used to be fixed by rebooting, but not anymore...
May 15 17:56:14 <Grackle> Any chance someone might steal your MAC address?
May 15 17:57:03 <cjohnson> Does maemo use like gnome or something?
May 15 17:57:06 <mrlanrat> no, i have also tried changing my mac, no luck.
May 15 17:57:07 <cjohnson> or is it a custom one
May 15 17:57:19 <mrlanrat> @cjohnson custom
May 15 17:57:19 <hrw> bye guys
May 15 17:57:39 <cjohnson> thanks
May 15 17:57:41 <mrlanrat> its called hildon
May 15 17:59:01 <Grackle> gnome apps can compile and run just fine, and minor tweaks will provide hildon integration
May 15 17:59:06 <mrlanrat> so any ideas on my DHCP problem?
May 15 17:59:10 <Grackle> http://umeguide.net/C/ch08s05.html
May 15 17:59:21 <Grackle> I'm at a loss, mrlanrat. I don't know what the problem is.
May 15 18:00:30 <mrlanrat> is there a way I can connect to the wifi via xterm so i can see ant error messseges?
May 15 18:00:46 <Grackle> I believe iwconfig works
May 15 18:01:27 <n800n> i believe birds suddenly appear
May 15 18:01:42 <Grackle> hehe
May 15 18:02:11 <Grackle> I don't know what dhcp client it uses, you can try dhclient or dhcpcd
May 15 18:02:56 <Grackle> You might have to stop wlancond before doing that
May 15 18:02:59 <mrlanrat> so how would i use iwconfig to connect to the wifi?
May 15 18:03:03 <Grackle> I'm not sure, but I think it may interfer
May 15 18:03:34 <GeneralAntilles> cjohnson, it's more or less GNOME
May 15 18:03:37 <Grackle> iwconfig wlan0 essid
May 15 18:03:49 <Grackle> mrlanrat: Does it use encryption?
May 15 18:03:56 <Grackle> http://linux.die.net/man/8/iwconfig
May 15 18:03:59 <cjohnson> What do you guys think of those stick-on plastic covers for protecting my screen? Does it interfere with the input too much? Does it leave a residue?
May 15 18:03:59 <mrlanrat> yes
May 15 18:04:04 <Grackle> What type?
May 15 18:04:06 <mrlanrat> wpa -enterprize
May 15 18:04:14 <GeneralAntilles> Depends on which one you buy.
May 15 18:04:23 <Grackle> Crap. I'm not familiar with using wpa from the command line, sorry.
May 15 18:04:26 <GeneralAntilles> Personally, I HIGHLY recommend the Boxwave anti-glare.
May 15 18:04:29 <mrlanrat> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19809
May 15 18:04:39 <mrlanrat> thats the encription info
May 15 18:04:48 <cjohnson> GeneralAntilles, I have these ones I use for my iPod and Camera, they're alright, from walmart
May 15 18:05:53 <Grackle> The one I got for my PSP was very stiff and would probably hinder stylus input. I would avoid getting one like that.
May 15 18:06:20 <cjohnson> The ones I have aren't stiff, they're probably as stiff as 2 sheets of paper would be
May 15 18:06:33 <cjohnson> They do a good job protecting, I just don't know about stylus input
May 15 18:06:43 <Grackle> Mine was like half a credit card
May 15 18:06:44 <cjohnson> Meh, it's 10 for $10, so I could just try
May 15 18:07:06 <Grackle> I think you'll be fine
May 15 18:07:12 <cjohnson> cool
May 15 18:07:21 <GeneralAntilles> Seriously though, Boxwave anti-glare is the way to go.
May 15 18:07:26 <GeneralAntilles> Great texture, great protection
May 15 18:07:40 <GeneralAntilles> anti-glare really improves visibility in a lot of lighting conditions.
May 15 18:07:46 <GeneralAntilles> Last forever
May 15 18:07:49 <Grackle> GeneralAntilles: I think I'll get one/a pack of those, they sound very nice.
May 15 18:08:05 <GeneralAntilles> I've got an application guide somewhere on ITT
May 15 18:08:10 <GeneralAntilles> For after you get one. ;)
May 15 18:08:26 <Grackle> Oh, it's an involved procedure?
May 15 18:08:52 <GeneralAntilles> Eh
May 15 18:08:53 <GeneralAntilles> Not really
May 15 18:08:57 <GeneralAntilles> Just dust is hard to keep out.
May 15 18:09:03 <GeneralAntilles> So you usually have to apply it more than once.
May 15 18:09:20 <Grackle> ah
May 15 18:09:31 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=117031&postcount=18
May 15 18:10:40 <Grackle> Is the boxwave screen protector made for the n800, or does it have to be cut?
May 15 18:10:57 <GeneralAntilles> It's made for it
May 15 18:11:04 <Grackle> ah
May 15 18:11:04 <GeneralAntilles> Well, assuming you order the N800 version. ;)
May 15 18:11:09 <Grackle> haha, right
May 15 18:12:55 <Blastur> hmm
May 15 18:13:08 * Grackle bookmarks for later
May 15 18:13:17 <Blastur> do you guys have weird problems with the n810 that its wifi connection stops working after a while?
May 15 18:13:35 <mrlanrat> YES!
May 15 18:14:20 <mrlanrat> My N810 can rarly get a DHCP IP from my school's wifi
May 15 18:14:31 <mrlanrat> but it works fine everywhere else.
May 15 18:16:39 <Grackle> Hey man, I have an initfs from 1969. Far out.
May 15 18:18:07 <lardman> Blastur: as in it goes to sleep?
May 15 18:21:07 <Blastur> lardman, well, it says its connected, but i cant browse the net
May 15 18:21:24 <Blastur> sometimes it helps if i disconnect from the wifi and reconnect to it
May 15 18:25:36 <lardman> Blastur: no idea then, sorry
May 15 18:25:45 <Blastur> someting is seriously wrong with my wifi.. i get like HUGE latency even when the n810 is next to the AP
May 15 18:25:52 <Blastur> i think its something with my router
May 15 18:26:09 <beford> hey, what fs would you guys recommend for a /boot partition? (on my desktop heh)
May 15 18:26:40 <penguinbait> what type of wifi AP do you have?
May 15 18:26:48 <Blastur> its a La Fonera
May 15 18:27:01 <penguinbait> is that a brand?
May 15 18:27:12 <Blastur> yeah
May 15 18:27:18 <penguinbait> is it 802.11 b or g or n or everything?
May 15 18:28:04 <penguinbait> I had problems with my old linksys, it was only 802.11b, always disconnected
May 15 18:28:19 <penguinbait> I have a b/g now and it works perfectly
May 15 18:28:20 <jku_> Blastur, there's a bug with Fonera + tablet combination, see maemo bugzilla
May 15 18:28:40 <jku_> apparently foneras don't like the aggressive power saving...
May 15 18:28:46 <Blastur> https://shop.fon.com/FonShop/shop/SE/ShopController?view=product&product=PRD-001
May 15 18:28:50 <Blastur> thats the one i use
May 15 18:28:58 <penguinbait> maybe a firmware update?
May 15 18:29:01 <unixSnob> Flash is such a failure..  Flash clients one version back can't show current flash content, and new flash players can't handle content from one version back.  I can't believe DHTML isn't more popular
May 15 18:29:04 <jku_> at least they didn't, could have had firmware upgrades
May 15 18:29:06 <penguinbait> on the AP
May 15 18:29:26 <Blastur> oh ok. jku_, good to know. I just wanted to rule out the n810.. i think i have an old NetGear AP here somewhere, gonna try that instead
May 15 18:31:59 <Blastur> oh, dang. I was just annoyed that there was no physical button to switch between windows.. now i just noticed the one sitting next to the screen
May 15 18:32:01 <Blastur> =)
May 15 18:32:26 <Blastur> i was like "what are they thinking? they put a button to maximize/minimize, but not switch windows?!"
May 15 18:33:01 <Grackle> :P
May 15 18:33:12 <Grackle> I wish the top buttons on the N800 were larger
May 15 18:33:31 <penguinbait> I wish I could control it with my mind
May 15 18:33:31 <KotCzarny> cut your fingers to fit
May 15 18:33:36 <Grackle> or more separated or something
May 15 18:33:38 <penguinbait> as long as we are wishing :)
May 15 18:33:41 <Grackle> haha KotCzarny
May 15 18:34:00 <Grackle> Yes, that would be pretty cool (mind control, not finger whittling)
May 15 18:34:00 <Blastur> btw, did you guys try out the SDL Quake thingie? I played for a while, then I realized i had NO way to turn it off ;) Didn't find the "Escape" button, so i had to power it down completely to exit
May 15 18:34:15 <Grackle> I played it
May 15 18:34:26 <Grackle> I don't plan on playing quake on my IT much, but it was neat to try out
May 15 18:34:29 <Blastur> amazing stuff for a small device like this
May 15 18:34:32 <KotCzarny> escape button is the one directly belowe dpad
May 15 18:34:53 <Blastur> i tried all buttons :) the one below dpad only switched between different keyconfiguration modes in-game
May 15 18:34:58 <penguinbait> I was playing q2 multiplayer with my cordless logitech controller
May 15 18:34:59 <Blastur> like ZoomMode, BioMode, whatever
May 15 18:35:04 <penguinbait> well sort of cordless
May 15 18:35:34 <penguinbait> we need CTF DDAY mods
May 15 18:35:47 <Navi> Hi penguinbait
May 15 18:36:18 <Grackle> I might play if I had a proper controller.
May 15 18:36:20 <penguinbait> Hi Navi, is that like the little fairy that helps Link?
May 15 18:36:35 <Navi> Yes
May 15 18:36:40 <penguinbait> nice
May 15 18:37:49 <penguinbait> usb controllers work great
May 15 18:39:27 <Navi> My usb controllers are too big to carry around
May 15 18:39:38 <Navi> I usually have the wiimote with me though
May 15 18:39:43 <n800n> does the quiver dev come here?
May 15 18:41:09 <penguinbait> anyone tried my boot from SD deb yet?
May 15 18:41:15 <RST38h> how much is wii controller right now, btw?
May 15 18:41:19 <RST38h> I mean, in the States?
May 15 18:41:40 <Navi> US$40
May 15 18:42:25 <penguinbait> best buy is 39.99
May 15 18:42:35 <RST38h> aha
May 15 18:42:48 <RST38h> looks like a shadier store will sell it for $25
May 15 18:42:55 <Navi> Lol
May 15 18:42:58 <penguinbait> 20$ more for nunchuck
May 15 18:43:01 <RST38h> and it is fully functional with N810? =)~
May 15 18:43:04 <keesj> anybody with a "lasted" os2008 image running ?
May 15 18:43:18 <KotCzarny> lasted?
May 15 18:43:20 <Navi> "lasted"?
May 15 18:43:23 <penguinbait> lasted?
May 15 18:43:25 <n800n> lasted.
May 15 18:43:27 <penguinbait> hehe
May 15 18:43:35 <RST38h> Oh, fuck the nunchuck - it's not like I am eager to break a window or something
May 15 18:43:52 <KotCzarny> rst: then you will :>
May 15 18:44:00 <penguinbait> RST38H but the IR is not working, only the buttos and dpad
May 15 18:44:03 <KotCzarny> it's always accidental ;)
May 15 18:44:19 <keesj> does the language selection work for you http://maemo.mmapps.net/n810_survey/
May 15 18:44:25 <Blastur> btw guys.. when you do typing on the n810, it sometimes makes a proposition for a few words.. how can i select one of those, without using the stylus? cant find the key to select em'
May 15 18:44:43 <penguinbait> finger
May 15 18:44:57 <penguinbait> after you put done the greasy pizza
May 15 18:45:04 <Blastur> ;)
May 15 18:45:05 <penguinbait> down that is
May 15 18:45:14 <Blastur> down?
May 15 18:45:30 <penguinbait> after you put "down" the greasy pizza
May 15 18:45:36 <Blastur> oh, right
May 15 18:45:38 <penguinbait> not "done"
May 15 18:45:51 <penguinbait> sorry
May 15 18:45:57 <Blastur> it's ok, you're only human
May 15 18:46:07 <penguinbait> or am I
May 15 18:47:21 <Blastur> uh oh
May 15 18:52:44 <RST38h> penguin: Oh :( I guess, this one would be a better fit then: http://sewelldirect.com/bluetooth-gamepad-adapter-for-smart-phones-and-pdas.asp?source=froogle&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=cse
May 15 18:54:09 <RST38h> Or get sixaxis work with n810 ;)
May 15 18:56:02 <KotCzarny> sewell looks like lisped sewer
May 15 18:56:03 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 18:57:53 <pyhimys> I misread the 'sewer' for server and started to think about ecommerce site made in lisp
May 15 18:58:16 <RST38h> it is probably just a nameless bunch of chinese
May 15 18:58:21 <pyhimys> (Would it be threadsafe etc )
May 15 18:58:52 <KotCzarny> heh
May 15 18:58:52 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 18:59:16 <KotCzarny> imagine managing ecommerce in lisp
May 15 18:59:37 <pyhimys> My brain hurts
May 15 18:59:39 <RST38h> they manage it in java, why not lisp?
May 15 18:59:53 <KotCzarny> java is piece of cake
May 15 18:59:55 <penguinbait> I already have that BT gamepad
May 15 19:00:03 <penguinbait> bg100, it sux
May 15 19:00:35 <penguinbait> you need to hack kbbd to make it work
May 15 19:00:50 <penguinbait> I used to use it with my 770 and 800 to play mame
May 15 19:02:43 <Navi> Anyone know what the home key is bound to in Debian?
May 15 19:03:19 <KotCzarny> run xev
May 15 19:03:28 <Navi> Too lazy
May 15 19:03:34 * KotCzarny lazy too
May 15 19:04:01 <Navi> F5
May 15 19:04:40 <n800n> do you guys know anyone at all who's coding for some kind of sound app for maemo?
May 15 19:04:56 <Navi> Sound app?
May 15 19:05:06 <n800n> music software
May 15 19:05:13 <Navi> oh
May 15 19:05:18 <KotCzarny> canola guys
May 15 19:05:19 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 15 19:05:21 <n800n> there;s the midi thing, but other than that i couldn't find anything at all
May 15 19:05:35 <n800n> not just playback, you know what i mean
May 15 19:05:40 <KotCzarny> sequencer?
May 15 19:06:05 <Grackle> tinytracker and PDa are the only ones I Know of
May 15 19:06:10 <n800n> yeah and things like that
May 15 19:06:10 <n800n> there's PDa and the midi thingy
May 15 19:06:27 <Grackle> er
May 15 19:06:32 <Grackle> whatever that sequencer was called
May 15 19:06:44 <Grackle> tinytracker seems to be a tracker for aprs :P
May 15 19:06:47 <zap> Some say, ITOS 2008 supports SMB shares, is that true?
May 15 19:07:37 <n800n> seems like such a missed opportunity to me (but i'm biased)
May 15 19:08:11 <n800n> the one thing i haven't tried is use emulators to host sound apps
May 15 19:08:13 <n800n> but it seems iffy
May 15 19:08:41 <KotCzarny> as long it works
May 15 19:08:42 <KotCzarny> hehe
May 15 19:09:20 <n800n> yeah i should try those out
May 15 19:09:26 <Grackle> There has never really been a whole lot of good music software for linux anyway.
May 15 19:09:32 <n800n> but i'm sure the screen will be forced into so half ass resolution
May 15 19:09:35 <penguinbait> as lo ng as it w ooooor  ks
May 15 19:09:36 <n800n> some*
May 15 19:09:49 <penguinbait> without killing the CPU :)
May 15 19:09:56 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 19:10:16 <KotCzarny> n800n: name a good seq for linux?
May 15 19:10:45 <KotCzarny> then port (compile) it for n800 (or find someone to do it)
May 15 19:10:47 <n800n> "decent" would be enough
May 15 19:11:49 <n800n> i noticed in xmmms a ALSA output module
May 15 19:11:59 <KotCzarny> alsa is a cheat
May 15 19:12:11 <n800n> <KotCzarny> as long it works
May 15 19:12:17 <KotCzarny> seq won't work
May 15 19:12:22 <KotCzarny> ie. midi
May 15 19:12:33 <KotCzarny> you have to install timidity server
May 15 19:12:42 <zap> rosegarden for midi sequencer
May 15 19:12:54 <zap> and lmms for tracker-style
May 15 19:13:04 <zap> but they are very heavy apps
May 15 19:13:20 <zap> hydrogen is a neat drum machine, but it's Qt
May 15 19:14:15 <n800n> there's aldrin
May 15 19:14:48 <n800n> that would be my frist pick probably
May 15 19:16:15 <n800n> http://trac.zeitherrschaft.org/aldrin
May 15 19:16:22 <zap> W: GPG error: http://maemo-hackers.org chinook Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 5FD45CD3EA68E29D
May 15 19:16:27 <zap> Anybody know how to fix this?
May 15 19:16:35 <penguinbait> dont
May 15 19:17:06 <zap> ?
May 15 19:17:13 <zap> http://maemo-hackers.org is a bad repo?
May 15 19:17:14 <penguinbait> you dont need to fix it, its works fine
May 15 19:17:20 <penguinbait> doesn't it?
May 15 19:17:27 <zap> dunno really
May 15 19:17:30 <zap> how to check?
May 15 19:17:41 <zap> I'm not common with dpkg yet
May 15 19:17:54 <penguinbait> several of mine complain on the command line about GPG, but they work
May 15 19:18:01 <zap> ah ok
May 15 19:18:23 <penguinbait> I am not a deb genius either
May 15 19:18:27 <RST38h> penguin: So, that weird gamepad acts as a kbd?
May 15 19:18:43 <penguinbait> I come from the land of RPM and BFF
May 15 19:19:04 <penguinbait> RST yes, and its not great for lots of input
May 15 19:19:59 <qwerty12_N800> Oh yeah, if you have ssh, telnet isn't needed? :)
May 15 19:20:04 <zap> I'm a long-time Fedora user as well
May 15 19:20:39 <penguinbait> telnet is very usefull even with ssh
May 15 19:21:06 <penguinbait> how do you ssh to a mail server at port 25?
May 15 19:21:33 <n800n> hm i know the aldrin dev! maybe he'll do it.
May 15 19:21:43 <penguinbait> RST http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2666&highlight=bgp100
May 15 19:21:53 <zap> The default media player uses gstreamer?
May 15 19:22:04 <qwerty12_N800> yes
May 15 19:22:06 <penguinbait> not sure if there is even a driver that works anymore?
May 15 19:22:12 <zap> how to make it play MPEG4 files?
May 15 19:22:24 <zap> I see gstreamer-ffmpeg is installed, but it says unsupported format
May 15 19:22:47 <qwerty12_N800> compile newer version of the gst-plugins?
May 15 19:23:29 <RST38h> penguin: aha. thanks!
May 15 19:24:00 <zap> why I would want a newer version when gstreamer supported MPEG4 even at version 0.8?
May 15 19:24:37 <zap> besides, ffmpeg supports MPEG4 from the very beginning, so I would suppose gstreamer-ffmpeg does it too
May 15 19:24:49 <qwerty12_N800> It doesn't seem to be working for you now.
May 15 19:24:51 * RST38h whispers "sixaxis! sixaxis!"
May 15 19:25:04 <penguinbait> qwerty, did you figure out your mount issue with KDE
May 15 19:25:42 <qwerty12_N800> penguinbait, no. I had to remove for diablo upgrade, I'm gonna reinstall soon :)
May 15 19:26:00 <penguinbait> you should use the new debs
May 15 19:26:30 <penguinbait> boot from SD installer, and KDE boot from SD KDE installer
May 15 19:26:59 <qwerty12_N800> I don't really like booting maemo off mmc (ironic & stupid due to my flashing number...)
May 15 19:27:45 <penguinbait> in that setup qwerty, the easiest way is to boot without the card in, that way nothing is using it
May 15 19:27:46 <keesj> nobody loves me
May 15 19:28:04 <qwerty12_N800> penguinbait, yeah :)
May 15 19:28:06 <penguinbait> are you sure
May 15 19:28:14 <qwerty12_N800> keesj, eaten worms yet? :p
May 15 19:28:36 <keesj> They dind't like me either
May 15 19:29:06 <penguinbait> qwerty, I looked in your post, it sounds like you missed the swap file
May 15 19:29:14 <KotCzarny> new meaning of 'they like you for your brains' ?
May 15 19:29:17 <penguinbait> swapoff /media/mmcX/swap.img
May 15 19:29:26 <qwerty12_N800> Don't worry, #maemo likes everyone. Except unless you aare slobby_d...
May 15 19:29:35 <qwerty12_N800> penguinbait, thanks! :)
May 15 19:29:46 <karbas> hmm.. does anyone have irssi for os2008.. i don't have scratchbox at the moment but i need irssi:/
May 15 19:30:02 <qwerty12_N800> karbas, I have svn build at itt
May 15 19:30:13 <karbas> itt?
May 15 19:30:15 <qwerty12_N800> and bitchx and weechat...
May 15 19:30:24 <penguinbait> internettablettalk
May 15 19:30:24 <qwerty12_N800> internettablettalk
May 15 19:30:26 <penguinbait> Itt
May 15 19:30:28 <karbas> well.. i need irssi
May 15 19:30:35 <karbas> qwerty12_N800, url?
May 15 19:30:42 <karbas> irssi-text i mean :)
May 15 19:30:58 <qwerty12_N800> sorry, I hate searching with virtual kbd
May 15 19:31:10 <qwerty12_N800> this uses ncurses
May 15 19:31:17 <penguinbait> curses!
May 15 19:31:25 <penguinbait> I mean ncurses!
May 15 19:31:29 <karbas> yeah
May 15 19:33:02 <summatusmentis> so... are there things people don't like about their N8x0 series?
May 15 19:33:45 <qwerty12_N800> I think internettablettalk should be internetcomputertablettalk because then i can say ictt
May 15 19:33:58 <qwerty12_N800> w/out getting slapped
May 15 19:34:02 <karbas> qwerty12_N800, search at itt didn't help:(
May 15 19:34:29 <qwerty12_N800> give me  a min.
May 15 19:34:34 <penguinbait> ictt, cmon
May 15 19:34:46 <cjohnson> Where can I get the gainroot command from again?
May 15 19:35:08 <qwerty12_N800> www.nitapps.com
May 15 19:35:27 <penguinbait> you can install becomeroot, and then you "sudo gainroot" in xterm
May 15 19:35:57 <karbas> qwerty12_N800, found it.. from the forums
May 15 19:35:59 * qwerty12_N800 prefers easyroot to becomeroot
May 15 19:36:02 <qwerty12_N800> ah kl
May 15 19:36:15 <cjohnson> what's the difference between easyroot and becomeroot
May 15 19:37:14 <qwerty12_N800> has "root" command which sets proper environment
May 15 19:37:17 <KotCzarny> http://www.woostercollective.com/snork.jpg
May 15 19:37:18 <KotCzarny> :>
May 15 19:37:30 <KotCzarny> ssh root@0 sets proper env too
May 15 19:37:31 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 19:37:34 <penguinbait> dont know, I never used easyroot
May 15 19:37:53 <qwerty12_N800> ssh is long for local connection :/
May 15 19:38:01 <KotCzarny> is it?
May 15 19:38:03 <penguinbait> Boot from SD installer DEB will give you root also
May 15 19:38:04 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 19:38:07 <penguinbait> hehe
May 15 19:39:32 <cjohnson> What do you mean by proper environment
May 15 19:39:51 <KotCzarny> home dir, for example
May 15 19:39:52 <penguinbait> it gives you root
May 15 19:40:01 <qwerty12_N800> whoami actually returns root
May 15 19:40:04 <cjohnson> oh I don't want that actually
May 15 19:40:11 <KotCzarny> you do.
May 15 19:40:17 <cjohnson> I want elevated commands but for things to be done to user, not root
May 15 19:40:28 <KotCzarny> otherwise you may end up with files in /home/user owend by root
May 15 19:40:39 <KotCzarny> ie. unmodifiable by your regular user
May 15 19:40:49 <cjohnson> but if i become root they're somehow created owned by user?
May 15 19:40:53 <cjohnson> how does that make sense?
May 15 19:41:04 <cjohnson> anyway, I can just SSH as root without even installing that, so there'd be no point in it
May 15 19:41:11 <penguinbait> these things are like swiss cheese, does it really matter?
May 15 19:41:15 <KotCzarny> if you login as root your home dir becomes /root
May 15 19:41:32 <KotCzarny> it matters if you don't want to reflash/debug too often
May 15 19:41:33 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 19:41:51 <KotCzarny> because 'something doesn't work anymore'
May 15 19:41:52 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 19:42:13 <cjohnson> right, so when I want add in new applications or whatever it may be, then it applies settings to /root and not to /home/user, which would mean that the user that I'd actually be using wouldn't have those files at all
May 15 19:42:34 <KotCzarny> no
May 15 19:42:46 <KotCzarny> apt-get doesn't modify your home dir usually
May 15 19:42:52 <cjohnson> usually
May 15 19:43:22 <cjohnson> kinda off topic, but is it possible to re-run that beginning configuration thing? I want to know what kinds of configurations it was doing for me, and I accidentally cancelled it
May 15 19:43:27 <KotCzarny> ok, if you only want to run apt-* then it doesn't matter what env you have
May 15 19:43:37 <penguinbait> I suspect qwerty has seen less tt and more cjohnson
May 15 19:43:46 <KotCzarny> cjohnson: you can unpack .deb with: ar x
May 15 19:43:49 <penguinbait> sorry, I just coudn't resist :)
May 15 19:44:12 <cjohnson> penguinbait, I didn't get it :S :P
May 15 19:44:22 <penguinbait> dpkg -x also unpacks debs
May 15 19:44:22 <qwerty12_N800> penguinbait, lol :p
May 15 19:44:32 <penguinbait> it was not meant for you cj
May 15 19:44:37 <qwerty12_N800> carl johnson is a gangsta
May 15 19:46:12 <lardman> I don't suppose we have any SBC experts about tonight>
May 15 19:46:14 <lardman> ?
May 15 19:46:56 <qwerty12_N800> preinst scripts get saved in /var/lib/dpkg/info
May 15 19:56:05 <cjohnson> I want to install acmonitor, but it requires libdbus-1-2. apt-get install libdbus-1-2 results in Package libdbus-1-2 is not available, but is referred to by another package.
May 15 19:56:05 <cjohnson> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
May 15 19:56:05 <cjohnson> is only available from another source
May 15 19:56:10 <cjohnson> any ideas?
May 15 19:56:29 <qwerty12_N800> cjohnson, grab my recompile from ictt
May 15 19:56:33 <qwerty12_N800> s/ictt/itt
May 15 20:00:06 <cjohnson> where is it?
May 15 20:00:28 <qwerty12_N800> can't remember, just search acmonitor or derf
May 15 20:00:35 <Navi> qwerty12_N800, mess with debian much?
May 15 20:00:55 <cjohnson> is it on the forums?
May 15 20:00:59 <qwerty12_N800> Navi, not atm. I need to get a keyboard :/
May 15 20:01:02 <qwerty12_N800> cjohnson, yes
May 15 20:01:17 <penguinbait> there you go again
May 15 20:01:22 <Navi> qwerty12_N800, you don't need a keyboard :P
May 15 20:01:41 <qwerty12_N800> Navi, I find it hard to use :/
May 15 20:01:47 * qwerty12_N800 blushes
May 15 20:03:21 <Navi> qwerty12_N800, http://www.xenf.net/n800stuff/matchbox-keyboard1.png
May 15 20:03:23 <Navi> \o/
May 15 20:03:57 <Navi> the xml config for it is in the same directory
May 15 20:04:12 <Navi> or you could always install synergy or ssh or vnc or rdesktop
May 15 20:04:28 <penguinbait> (.)(.)
May 15 20:04:36 <Navi> lolbewbs
May 15 20:04:43 <cjohnson> I can never remember the commands, what it is it for gzunzip?
May 15 20:04:45 <qwerty12_N800> Navi, will do lol
May 15 20:04:53 <Navi> gunzip
May 15 20:04:54 <penguinbait> gunzip
May 15 20:04:57 <penguinbait> hehe
May 15 20:05:06 <cjohnson> ah
May 15 20:05:09 <Navi> I remember it 'cuz you want to shoot the zip with a gun
May 15 20:05:11 <cjohnson> is that maemo only? or standard?
May 15 20:05:15 <KotCzarny> gun-zip ?
May 15 20:05:16 <Navi> standard ap
May 15 20:05:19 <Navi> app
May 15 20:05:35 <penguinbait> gzip -d works also
May 15 20:05:44 <cjohnson> oh no not that
May 15 20:05:59 <cjohnson> isn't there a way to extract directly from the tar?
May 15 20:06:05 <KotCzarny> tar -xzf
May 15 20:06:12 <Navi> tar -xvzf file.tar.gz
May 15 20:06:13 <penguinbait> tar zxvf app.tar.gz
May 15 20:06:15 <cjohnson> that's it
May 15 20:06:19 <cjohnson> zxvf
May 15 20:06:26 <cjohnson> i have a script at home so i don't' have to remember
May 15 20:06:28 <cjohnson> gzunzip
May 15 20:06:28 <Navi> :P
May 15 20:06:32 <cjohnson> and bz2unzip as well
May 15 20:06:36 <penguinbait> z zip x xtract v verify f file
May 15 20:06:42 <KotCzarny> v is verbose
May 15 20:06:43 <penguinbait> z zip x xtract v verbose f file
May 15 20:06:45 <KotCzarny> not verify
May 15 20:06:47 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:07:05 <penguinbait> I got ahead of myself
May 15 20:07:16 <penguinbait> it must have been the (.)(.)
May 15 20:07:24 <penguinbait> they always distract me
May 15 20:07:54 <qwerty12_N800> (    .    )(    .    )
May 15 20:08:01 <cjohnson> ahh
May 15 20:08:01 <qwerty12_N800> wayhey
May 15 20:08:35 <cjohnson> oh crap
May 15 20:08:41 <KotCzarny> qwerty: that's too much
May 15 20:08:49 <penguinbait> always one up-ing me
May 15 20:08:57 <cjohnson> I'm on windows SSH'ing into the n800
May 15 20:09:02 <Navi> lolhugebewbz
May 15 20:09:02 <cjohnson> the n800 doesn't have a C compiler
May 15 20:09:12 <qwerty12_N800> penguinbait, nothing personal :p
May 15 20:09:27 <penguinbait> its all good
May 15 20:09:32 <Navi> gah
May 15 20:09:36 <qwerty12_N800> KotCzarny, NEVA I WANT MOAR
May 15 20:09:36 <Navi> I can't get anything to run in openbox
May 15 20:09:46 <chx> hey. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/mysqldatabase/ is this the daemon? not just the client?
May 15 20:10:20 <cjohnson> qwerty12_N800, do you have a suggestion for compiling it? or could i possibly beg a favor of you to compile it and send me the deb?
May 15 20:10:35 <KotCzarny> chx: os2007 ?
May 15 20:10:44 <cjohnson> os2008
May 15 20:10:49 <cjohnson> oh haha not me nvm
May 15 20:10:54 <qwerty12_N800> cjohnson, acmonitor?
May 15 20:10:59 <cjohnson> qwerty12_N800, yeah
May 15 20:11:21 <chx> KotCzarny: whatever google finds.
May 15 20:11:55 <chx> KotCzarny: I have trying to convince myself to buy a Maemo device since the 770 but so far could not.
May 15 20:12:12 <chx> KotCzarny: then http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/mysqldatabase/ the question is the same.
May 15 20:12:15 <penguinbait> I bought 770, 800 and 810
May 15 20:12:26 <penguinbait> cmon already
May 15 20:12:30 * KotCzarny has only n800
May 15 20:12:56 <chx> I am not buying anythign that does not have a LAMP stack
May 15 20:12:58 <KotCzarny> chx: there is always sqlite
May 15 20:12:59 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:13:03 <penguinbait> I have 800 and 810 , my 770 went to Nokia repair facility, never to be seen again
May 15 20:13:06 <chx> not good for me.
May 15 20:13:10 <Knirch> penguinbait: and the wimax model is on order?
May 15 20:13:13 <KotCzarny> chx: just get that package and unpack it
May 15 20:13:14 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:13:22 <chx> I do not have a Maemo device
May 15 20:13:22 <KotCzarny> and you will see
May 15 20:13:23 <penguinbait> NOPE, I want n900
May 15 20:13:29 <KotCzarny> it's a standard .deb
May 15 20:13:30 <chx> I am checking whether I want to buy one
May 15 20:13:36 <chx> then give me a .deb link
May 15 20:13:40 <KotCzarny> doh.
May 15 20:13:49 <chx> repo_deb_3 = deb http://www.web-brewer.co.uk/maemo binary/
May 15 20:13:56 <chx> i can't decipher the deb from this.
May 15 20:13:59 <qwerty12_N800> cjohnson, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=171640&postcount=3
May 15 20:14:43 <chx> you know guys this is somewhat ridiculous
May 15 20:14:57 <chx> http://wiki.opensource.nokia.com/projects/PAMP we have a full AMP stack for phones
May 15 20:15:02 <chx> and then for a Linux device
May 15 20:15:04 <chx> we don't?
May 15 20:15:18 <KotCzarny> 'we' ?
May 15 20:15:21 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:16:20 <KotCzarny> http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/m/mysql-dfsg/
May 15 20:16:41 <chx> mysql 4.0 that's ancient
May 15 20:16:48 <chx> the link above at least has 4.1
May 15 20:16:49 <KotCzarny> then just compile one yourself
May 15 20:16:59 <KotCzarny> or decipher the repo dir
May 15 20:17:00 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:17:15 <KotCzarny> people run 3.x too
May 15 20:17:16 <KotCzarny> heheh
May 15 20:17:17 <penguinbait> chx, why are you trying to find software to run on something you dont have?
May 15 20:17:33 <chx> penguinbait: it's not hard to cross that chasm
May 15 20:17:43 <chx> penguinbait: the only question is, do I want to shell out that much money?
May 15 20:17:51 <KotCzarny> how much?
May 15 20:17:53 <KotCzarny> 150$ ?
May 15 20:17:54 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:18:05 <chx> the N810 is not $150 and I need a keyboard.
May 15 20:18:14 <KotCzarny> ah, talking about needs
May 15 20:18:16 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:18:26 <chx> yes I came here for help
May 15 20:18:33 <chx> and getting smileys and no help
May 15 20:18:36 <chx> great.
May 15 20:18:42 <penguinbait> what help do you want
May 15 20:18:54 <Navi> chx, that's our friend the smiley spammer
May 15 20:18:59 <chx> is there a functioanl LAMP stack or not :) ?
May 15 20:19:24 <cjohnson> just got back, thanks a ton qwerty12_N800
May 15 20:19:47 <qwerty12_N800> no problem :)
May 15 20:20:43 <chx> seems to me I need to wait for these Atom powered MIDs
May 15 20:20:50 <Navi> chx, if you want my answer, it would be I don't know.  I do know you could compile it yourself, though.
May 15 20:21:20 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:22:16 <chx> this is http://www.umpcportal.com/products/product.php?id=170 what the N810 should be.
May 15 20:22:23 <penguinbait> I know there was apache, not sure if its still around, but it was very trimmed down
May 15 20:22:30 <summatusmentis> I'm worried that the N8x0 tablets don't have the software repos that the Zaurus line do. Is there someplace I can search through software repos?
May 15 20:22:47 <Navi> summatusmentis, http://www.gronmayer.com/it/
May 15 20:22:54 <Navi> don't know if it's up, though
May 15 20:23:03 <Navi> It's been down for the last few days
May 15 20:23:05 <penguinbait> was down yesterday
May 15 20:23:07 <KotCzarny> no price
May 15 20:23:08 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:23:12 <summatusmentis> Fatal error: Call to undefined function: curl_init() in /var/www/gronmayer.com/htdocs/it/_init/functions.inc.php on line 227 :)
May 15 20:23:56 <chx> http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/05/m528-pricing-drops-into-the-safety-zone-expect-750-in-the-us/
May 15 20:24:15 <KotCzarny> 420$
May 15 20:24:21 <KotCzarny> preorder
May 15 20:24:22 <KotCzarny> hehe
May 15 20:24:26 <Navi> chx, I don't agree that the Gigabyte MID is what the N810 "should" be, but this is just one man's opinion.
May 15 20:24:39 <chx> at least I have no doubt what software is available and what's compilable
May 15 20:24:49 <chx> I am running x86 linux longer than i am comfortable to remember :)
May 15 20:25:08 <KotCzarny> nice that it has 512mb or mem
May 15 20:25:09 <KotCzarny> though
May 15 20:25:10 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:25:17 <penguinbait> chx, its all available, if you make it available
May 15 20:25:35 <chx> i guess there is a cross compiler environment available?
May 15 20:25:38 <chx> maybe an emulator?
May 15 20:25:43 <Navi> chx, yes
May 15 20:25:44 <chx> so that i can test?
May 15 20:25:46 <KotCzarny> there is native gcc
May 15 20:25:48 <KotCzarny> too
May 15 20:26:02 <KotCzarny> chx: search for maemo sdk
May 15 20:26:10 <penguinbait> If I can get KDE and CUPS working, you should be able to make a LAMP stack
May 15 20:26:19 <KotCzarny> there is installation kit and vmware image too
May 15 20:26:21 <ReKlipz> Hey everyone, I'm working on a project that will be based on the Nokia n810. I'm currently running Debian Lenny amd64, and am wondering how I can get the maemo 4 sdk up and running.
May 15 20:26:23 <chx> i was waiting for long for the freedom slim keyboard to get out from vaporware state. would be nice the N800 and that.
May 15 20:26:38 <penguinbait> skip the vmware mess, just my personal opinion
May 15 20:26:48 <Navi> chx, http://maemo.org/development/sdks/
May 15 20:26:51 <chx> penguinbait: HAHA you compiled KDE on _that_ ?
May 15 20:26:55 <Navi> You could always use a cheap USB keyboard.
May 15 20:27:00 <penguinbait> I love my 810 keyboard
May 15 20:27:07 <Navi> and he compiled _for_ the N8X0
May 15 20:27:10 <chx> Navi: show me a N800-sized keyboad.
May 15 20:27:15 <ReKlipz> penguinbait: was taht directed towards me?
May 15 20:27:24 <penguinbait> original version ran on 770
May 15 20:27:24 <cjohnson> qwerty12_N800, What settings does this monitor beside brightness?
May 15 20:27:34 <cjohnson> qwerty12_N800, any?
May 15 20:27:38 <Navi> not on it. Would be ages before the N8X0 finishes compiling KDE
May 15 20:27:53 <qwerty12_N800> cjohnson, display and backlight timeouts
May 15 20:27:57 <chx> penguinbait: and the running speed...? you click button, make coffee , drink it, come back, system reacts?
May 15 20:27:58 <penguinbait> NO, I compiled in scratchbox, not on device
May 15 20:28:17 <qwerty12_N800> i need to add lcuk's cpufreq mod into acmonitor soon
May 15 20:28:34 <chx> I ran KDE on my Celeron 400 192M old laptop . Was fun.
May 15 20:28:41 <ReKlipz> anyone willing to help me get maemo 4 setup on amd64, or is it even possible?
May 15 20:28:57 <chx> running it on Tank is much more fun, though.
May 15 20:29:16 <chx> speaking of that
May 15 20:29:25 <chx> how ... sturdy is the N8x0 ?
May 15 20:29:26 <Navi> I'm running openbox on debian at the moment. Now there's something that's fun.
May 15 20:29:46 <penguinbait> http://penguinbait.com/kdes.png
May 15 20:29:48 <Navi> chx, people drop it all the time. It scratches easily but I haven't heard of anyone breaking it
May 15 20:30:14 <penguinbait> I have a n800 with broken stand and back cover latch
May 15 20:30:23 <Navi> penguinbait, ha
May 15 20:30:25 <penguinbait> dropped it many times, still works great
May 15 20:30:27 <chx> Navi: pretty good. i would not expect to take the beating my laptop can take (why do you think I call it Tank :) it's a panasonic toughbook) but it's good news.
May 15 20:30:45 <Navi> I drop it all the time onto tile flooring from the counter
May 15 20:30:52 <KotCzarny> brute
May 15 20:30:52 <Navi> I freak out every time I do, but it's fine
May 15 20:31:02 <chx> i guess lack of moving parts make it less likely to break it
May 15 20:31:06 <chx> what about the screen?
May 15 20:31:13 <chx> what protects the screen when you drop it?
May 15 20:31:14 <ReKlipz> would anyone mind helping me setup maemo4 sdk?
May 15 20:31:24 <Navi> chx, it's beveled inwards a little
May 15 20:31:29 <penguinbait> I have a scratch in my 800, I always now use my cover on my 810
May 15 20:31:39 <penguinbait> keys in my pocket scratched it
May 15 20:31:42 <Navi> so it won't make direct contact unless the floor is jagged
May 15 20:31:52 <chx> ah
May 15 20:31:53 <Navi> a screen protector would be nice, though
May 15 20:32:39 <Grackle> I dropped my N800 once. "Hey Rick, look a-- SHIT!" *drops and battery goes flying*
May 15 20:32:47 <Navi> Heh
May 15 20:32:53 <penguinbait> ReKlips, are you using the install scripts?
May 15 20:33:06 <ReKlipz> penguinbait: they wont work because IO
May 15 20:33:06 <KotCzarny> i think flying battery is a good thing, momentum taken away from device ;)
May 15 20:33:12 <ReKlipz> because I'm using amd64
May 15 20:33:16 <Grackle> I dropped my laptop in that class too, heh.
May 15 20:33:38 <KotCzarny> reklipz: does vmware work on amd64 ?
May 15 20:33:39 <Navi> Oh, weird
May 15 20:33:46 * Grackle dropped an open hp dv500t with 12 cell battery.. it landed face down, hard
May 15 20:33:50 <penguinbait> vmware probably best bet
May 15 20:34:05 <ReKlipz> KotCzarny: yes it does, and i have it up and running, so a VM eh? no real amd64 support?
May 15 20:34:13 <Navi> ReKlipz, nah
May 15 20:34:22 <KotCzarny> reklipz: maybe trying building it from scratch..
May 15 20:34:38 <Navi> ReKlipz, Nokia didn't think too far ahead with the SDK, it seems
May 15 20:34:38 * RST38h remembers trying to drop an IBM RS6000 and a 70kg monitor it came with
May 15 20:34:38 <ReKlipz> KotCzarny: ok, debian has a scratchbox2 package
May 15 20:34:43 <Grackle> ReKlipz: Does your processor support virtualization?
May 15 20:34:45 <KotCzarny> i think people tried it, don't know about results
May 15 20:34:48 <RST38h> Badly needed to get rid of the box
May 15 20:34:54 <ReKlipz> Grackle, i believe so
May 15 20:34:55 <Navi> RST38h, box?
May 15 20:35:18 <Grackle> ReKlipz: I would use the vmware appliance then. It makes life easy.
May 15 20:35:22 <KotCzarny> 70kg?
May 15 20:35:26 <KotCzarny> that's more than me
May 15 20:35:26 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 15 20:35:32 <RST38h> Navi: it was an ibm-gray colored box the size of two full size pc tower cases
May 15 20:35:41 <ReKlipz> KotCzarny: I'll try compiling from source, then, Grackle, if that doesnt work, a VM it is.
May 15 20:36:05 <RST38h> Kot: We actually made bets if dropping it from a window will register as a minor earthquake
May 15 20:36:19 <KotCzarny> very minor
May 15 20:36:23 <KotCzarny> probably undetectable
May 15 20:36:24 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:36:26 <RST38h> yea, but still
May 15 20:36:52 <RST38h> never got lost. never broke. never fell out of a window.
May 15 20:36:53 <Grackle> ReKlipz: Okay. The vm is nice though. With open-vm-tools, you can copy and paste between OSs, drag the mouse in between them, etc. It's very easy to deal with. I have two monitors, and I just run the appliance full screen on one.
May 15 20:37:09 <KotCzarny> hard to misplace 70kg monster
May 15 20:37:10 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:37:23 <KotCzarny> and won't fit on most desks too
May 15 20:37:53 <RST38h> it fit all right
May 15 20:38:08 <KotCzarny> exclusively?
May 15 20:38:09 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:38:18 <Grackle> 70kg sounds a bit much
May 15 20:38:21 <RST38h> required a kick with a foot every morning (one of hds had trouble starting)
May 15 20:38:42 <KotCzarny> keeps user in shape?
May 15 20:38:44 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:38:51 <RST38h> Grackle: it was a huge cubic-shaped CRT thing
May 15 20:39:06 * KotCzarny had 19" 30kg crt, once
May 15 20:39:09 <Grackle> Oh, I see, it was an all in one device?
May 15 20:39:19 <chx> heh, at a local dorm they had a fun series of contests every year , and one of the tasks was to simulate a nuclear explosion, so the kids grabbed a bedsheet to cover themselves, grabbed the fireaxe and some old, old tv and booom! others simply dropped the tv from the 12th floor.
May 15 20:39:28 <RST38h> larger than normal, pretty much like 1.5 22" SUN CRTs
May 15 20:39:58 <RST38h> TV does not blow up well enouh
May 15 20:40:02 <Grackle> that's pretty ridiculous
May 15 20:40:11 <RST38h> tell them to do it on a Li battery next time
May 15 20:40:37 <RST38h> make sure they place it into a pool of water and apply the axe to it
May 15 20:40:41 <Grackle> wait till one year when some smartass detonates a small thermonuclear device
May 15 20:41:02 <KotCzarny> or building's gas installation
May 15 20:41:02 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 15 20:41:11 <RST38h> that is what I call "mean"
May 15 20:41:26 <RST38h> and predictable
May 15 20:41:34 <KotCzarny> and stupid
May 15 20:41:51 <glass> everything worth enough doing just for the fun of it is stupid
May 15 20:41:53 <Grackle> Mmm, yes, fire up an oxy-acetylene torch, extinguish the flame, and fill a trash bag. That'll blow out every window in sight.
May 15 20:42:07 <RST38h> but dropping a package of aluminium paint off the 5th floor and lighting it up somewhere around 4th floor should do the job
May 15 20:42:34 <KotCzarny> why around 4th, make a fireball
May 15 20:42:34 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 15 20:42:37 <RST38h> won't blow every window in sight, but will leave a lot of people without sight
May 15 20:42:52 <RST38h> Kot: You want stuff to spread in the air, or it won't flash well
May 15 20:42:57 <KotCzarny> ahm
May 15 20:42:58 <KotCzarny> ok
May 15 20:43:03 <RST38h> kinda like those vacuum bombs
May 15 20:43:08 <chx> hm, i just was telling a story
May 15 20:43:28 <RST38h> chx: see how helpful we all are?
May 15 20:43:32 <KotCzarny> how about those paint sprayer addons?
May 15 20:43:38 <penguinbait> I have a potatoe cannon
May 15 20:43:42 <chx> this channel is logged
May 15 20:43:42 <RST38h> not sure if they will work
May 15 20:44:06 <chx> so i won't go further into this topic :)
May 15 20:44:11 <Grackle> hah
May 15 20:44:12 <penguinbait> logged and posted for the whole world to see
May 15 20:44:23 <RST38h> depends on what the silvery stuff is (has to be metal) and what the filler is
May 15 20:44:40 <Grackle> I never built a potato cannon, but I built a small pneumatic cannon with a 3/4" barrel
May 15 20:44:53 <KotCzarny> potato canon can be dangerous
May 15 20:44:55 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:45:15 <Navi> chx, we know it's logged, but we could care less :D
May 15 20:45:19 <Grackle> They're not too bad. It's usually the people that are using them that can be dangerous.
May 15 20:45:23 <penguinbait> yes, adding glass or rocks is very bad
May 15 20:45:33 <penguinbait> of course a deadly potatoe is no better
May 15 20:45:41 <Grackle> :/ PVC doesn't stand up well to stress like that
May 15 20:45:49 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:45:52 <penguinbait> sure it does :)
May 15 20:45:58 <Grackle> It shatters, so putting rocks and glass through it probably isn't a good idea
May 15 20:46:14 <Grackle> I think you meant "sure it did"
May 15 20:46:14 <KotCzarny> otoh, it is
May 15 20:46:16 <penguinbait> depends on whos after you :)
May 15 20:46:20 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 15 20:49:06 <summatusmentis> so the cross compile env for the N8x0 series is called sandbox?
May 15 20:49:10 <summatusmentis> how does it work?
May 15 20:49:13 <ReKlipz> Grackle: I'm gonna use virtualbox isntead of vmware
May 15 20:49:28 <KotCzarny> sandbox?
May 15 20:49:35 <qwerty12_N800> I have a couple of tasers made from disposeable cameras. on same note, my friend got banned from post office...
May 15 20:49:42 <qwerty12_N800> scratchbox
May 15 20:49:48 <summatusmentis> oh right, scratchbox
May 15 20:49:50 <n800n> ooohhh k
May 15 20:50:09 <Grackle> ReKlipz: Hm, okay. I don't know how you're going to conver the image to virtualbox, but if you can, more power to you.
May 15 20:50:26 <summatusmentis> KotCzarny: sorry, I don't have a N8x0, I'm debating whether or not to sell my Zaurus c3200, and purchase an N810
May 15 20:50:27 <ReKlipz> Grackle: what image?
May 15 20:50:36 <KotCzarny> why sell, have both
May 15 20:50:37 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:50:45 <Grackle> http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/702 ReKlipz
May 15 20:50:47 * summatusmentis == college student
May 15 20:50:59 <ReKlipz> lol, awesome
May 15 20:51:21 <summatusmentis> so, that's why sell :)
May 15 20:51:28 <Grackle> Yeah, haha, I realized nobody told you about that
May 15 20:51:32 * Grackle thought you knew
May 15 20:51:39 <ReKlipz> Grackle: I was just gonna install debian and then setup the environment with the .sh scripts
May 15 20:51:52 <Grackle> This way is easier. Includes docs, too!
May 15 20:51:56 <KotCzarny> heh
May 15 20:52:04 <Grackle> You'll be up and running in no time.
May 15 20:52:10 <KotCzarny> i thought it was self explanatory, when i said vmware image
May 15 20:52:11 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:52:11 <summatusmentis> KotCzarny: well, being a college studen, and being fed up with Angstrom
May 15 20:52:18 <KotCzarny> i should be more specific next time :)
May 15 20:52:23 <penguinbait> Not sure if the vmware appliance will work for you?  I tried it on a laptop with mobile CPU and it would not work for me?
May 15 20:52:27 <n800n> what's the best way to code for maemo if they don't have a tablet?
May 15 20:52:39 <KotCzarny> summatusmentis: :)
May 15 20:52:45 <KotCzarny> n800n: maemo sdk
May 15 20:52:46 <Grackle> penguinbait: He has an amd64
May 15 20:52:52 <penguinbait> with or without it would be scratchbox/sdk
May 15 20:53:13 <n800n> is there an emulator?
May 15 20:53:19 <KotCzarny> yes
May 15 20:53:24 <KotCzarny> included afair
May 15 20:53:26 <Grackle> yes, that's part of the scratchbox system
May 15 20:53:31 <n800n> cool
May 15 20:53:39 <Grackle> n800n: See the vmware appliance I linked
May 15 20:53:50 <Grackle> That is the best way to get started.
May 15 20:54:06 <zap> Anybody can explain why gstreamer takes 20% CPU to play an ogg file, and mplayer does the same with just 0.3% ?
May 15 20:54:08 <penguinbait> well, I could not use it because my CPU was mobile, he may have the same issue with the AMD?
May 15 20:54:17 <Grackle> Install vmware. Boot image. Congratulations, you have a working build environment for the IT.
May 15 20:54:43 <Grackle> penguinbait: His supports virtualization.
May 15 20:55:02 <KotCzarny> zap: top is not a benchmark
May 15 20:55:04 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 20:55:14 <zap> yep, but that's quite a difference
May 15 20:55:19 <zap> 100 times to be precise
May 15 20:55:21 <KotCzarny> zap: if you want real numbers decode file to /dev/null
May 15 20:55:57 <KotCzarny> then compare times
May 15 20:56:06 <Grackle> hint: use time
May 15 20:56:28 <zap> if I only would understand something in gstreamer
May 15 20:56:39 <zap> I just got able to use playbin...
May 15 20:57:03 <KotCzarny> you would have to create pipe with filesink at the end
May 15 20:57:05 <KotCzarny> probably
May 15 20:57:21 <KotCzarny> google for gstlaunch examples
May 15 21:01:07 <Navi> Anyone have a link to fennec handy?
May 15 21:03:06 <penguinbait> Ah, then end of another hard day at work!!!!
May 15 21:03:19 <KotCzarny> you are ircing from work?
May 15 21:03:37 <penguinbait> what else am I supposed to do?
May 15 21:03:42 <KotCzarny> working?
May 15 21:03:43 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 21:04:07 <penguinbait> I work for a sales org, if they dont sell, I just sit and wait for systems to configure
May 15 21:04:14 <JackCrow> If I couldn't IRC from work, I wouldn't IRC at all!
May 15 21:04:19 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 21:04:36 <penguinbait> mostly I configure nokia devices :)
May 15 21:04:42 <penguinbait> we dont sell those :)
May 15 21:04:49 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 21:05:04 <penguinbait> and KDE just finished installing on my new partition, how timly
May 15 21:05:29 <summatusmentis> how well does KDE work on the N810?
May 15 21:05:55 <penguinbait> its a tad slow to start new apps, but they all run well
May 15 21:06:19 <Blastur> is it normal that the N810 stops reponding to pings whenever it doesn't use the wifi connection?
May 15 21:06:32 <penguinbait> no its your AP
May 15 21:06:41 <KotCzarny> blastur: probably you have wifi idle on?
May 15 21:06:50 <Blastur> how can i disable wifi idle?
May 15 21:07:02 <KotCzarny> in connections window
May 15 21:07:02 <JackCrow> you can set an idle time
May 15 21:07:11 <Blastur> i have "unlimited"
May 15 21:07:11 <penguinbait> I had to buy newer AP
May 15 21:07:17 <summatusmentis> what hildon? the backend WM?
May 15 21:07:21 <KotCzarny> try lowering pwoer saving then
May 15 21:07:37 <KotCzarny> power
May 15 21:07:40 <Blastur> penguinbait: ive tried 2 APs now, both were flashed with OpenWRT
May 15 21:07:55 <Blastur> KotCzarny: where do i control that stuff?
May 15 21:08:19 <penguinbait> I had 810.11b linksys, always had problems even with dlink firmware, I got a netgear 802.11b/g and its working perfectly
May 15 21:08:21 <KotCzarny> blastur: when you configure ap, next all the way to the end and click advanced
May 15 21:08:26 <penguinbait> no more ping scripts
May 15 21:08:52 <penguinbait> If its an old AP, you might not be able to fix it
May 15 21:10:12 <Blastur> how significant impact does completely disabling power saving on wifi have?
May 15 21:10:27 <JackCrow> could try openwrt if there is an image for your AP.  If the manufacturer is not suporting it anymore, replacement firmware might be the way to go
May 15 21:10:44 <Blastur> JackCrow, im running kamikaze 7.09
May 15 21:11:13 <KotCzarny> blastur: hmm, sometimes it just hangs
May 15 21:11:17 <KotCzarny> ie. wifi in my n800
May 15 21:11:32 <KotCzarny> usually when moving much data via sshfs
May 15 21:11:45 <Blastur> hangs as in unrecoverable?
May 15 21:11:50 <KotCzarny> yup
May 15 21:11:57 <KotCzarny> i have to reconnect via systray
May 15 21:12:13 <KotCzarny> wifi only, sshfs resumes automatically
May 15 21:12:24 <Blastur> well, the power savings trick seems to do a lot of good
May 15 21:12:42 <lopz> bye
May 15 21:12:43 <Blastur> i think it is confusing for other parties of the n810 goes away for a while
May 15 21:13:36 <zap> Unfortunately, mplayer cannot play audio without timer sync :(
May 15 21:13:57 <KotCzarny> zap: try another -ao ?
May 15 21:14:27 <tank-man> blastur, http://maemo.org/maemo_training_material/maemo4.x/html/maemo_Getting_Started/images/very-important-piechart.png
May 15 21:14:56 <zap> KotCzarny: -ao null, in vain
May 15 21:15:32 <zap> aha, -ao pcm writes to a file
May 15 21:15:33 <Blastur> hmm, ok.. so its significant then
May 15 21:15:44 <Blastur> what do you guys recommend as a "stable" AP for n810?
May 15 21:15:56 <Blastur> one that can handle the aggresive power saving features
May 15 21:17:25 <tank-man> whats the original problem? can't ping the n810?
May 15 21:17:53 <zap> Okay, so benchmarks shows that mplayer is "only" 42% faster than gstream: 46.7s vs 32.8s
May 15 21:17:55 <Blastur> the original problem is that the wifi connection stops working after a while (even though it says "connected" and signal strength is good)
May 15 21:18:15 <Blastur> and i cant browse the web on my n810
May 15 21:18:18 <KotCzarny> zap: so it's not 100x :)
May 15 21:18:27 <zap> um
May 15 21:18:41 <cjohnson> Blastur, sadly, I know quite a few wireless devices that cause that. Many wireless adapters, and even many waps cause it
May 15 21:18:50 <zap> I'd say if somebody could speedup ogg decoding by 42% by using, say, DSP, everybody would say "Yahoo!"
May 15 21:19:16 <Blastur> cjohnson, how do you mean? is it the n810 thats causing it, or my other wlan equipment?
May 15 21:19:30 <JackCrow> My thinkpad was like that at school, but worked fine at home.  I think you can just run into inconsistencies when mixing vendors
May 15 21:19:31 <Blastur> cause wifi is kindof very critical to this device ;)
May 15 21:22:11 <tank-man> maybe your router's firmware needs updating
May 15 21:24:17 <Blastur> maybe.. though, the router runs an opensource system called openwrt, which is pretty well maintained and active in bug fixing etc
May 15 21:24:28 <Blastur> im gonna sleep on this ;) gnite! and thanks for your thoughts
May 15 21:24:30 <Blastur> cya
May 15 21:28:59 <alech> Hi, anyone responsible for garage.maemo.org here?
May 15 21:33:26 <hagna> can I develop for maemo to see if I can write stuff for a nokia tablet before I actually buy one?
May 15 21:33:39 <NullM0dem> yes with the SDK
May 15 21:33:39 <KotCzarny> maemo sdk
May 15 21:33:49 <KotCzarny> ~maemo sdk
May 15 21:33:57 <KotCzarny> bot died?
May 15 21:34:00 <KotCzarny> ~sdk
May 15 21:34:01 <infobot> Software Development Kit
May 15 21:34:04 <hagna> infobot: thanks
May 15 21:34:05 <infobot> hagna: no problem
May 15 21:34:05 <NullM0dem> just slow
May 15 21:34:13 <KotCzarny> lol
May 15 21:34:15 <NullM0dem> bot needs tea
May 15 21:34:22 <KotCzarny> bot needs prodding
May 15 21:34:40 <NullM0dem> sic beastie on it
May 15 21:35:06 <briand> 1
May 15 21:39:09 <tank-man> 2
May 15 21:39:23 <KotCzarny> 3, i win
May 15 21:39:39 <n800n> does maemo do alsa?
May 15 21:39:45 <KotCzarny> kind of
May 15 21:40:08 <n800n> how come
May 15 21:41:22 <n800n> i mean
May 15 21:41:26 <n800n> is it a bitch?
May 15 21:41:44 <NullM0dem> it was a few years back on any machine
May 15 21:42:03 <n800n> cairo works right?
May 15 21:52:47 <n800n> canola doesn't do gif ?
May 15 21:53:05 <KotCzarny>  /join #canola ?
May 15 21:53:12 <kenne> only if you compile efl with support for it
May 15 21:53:25 <KotCzarny> though they are after work by now
May 15 21:53:32 * lardman is concerned that what was nice clean code, is now messy
May 15 21:53:53 <KotCzarny> lardman: as long it works.. ;)
May 15 21:53:57 <NullM0dem> noo0o
May 15 21:54:04 <KotCzarny> make many comments though
May 15 21:54:05 <n800n> i think i've reached kot's limit of noob questions.
May 15 21:54:23 <lardman> Well that's the big question; I have to do lots of bit shifting to handle what was a buffer of 8bit chars but it now 16bit chars
May 15 21:54:26 <KotCzarny> n800n: i just don't know :)
May 15 21:54:59 <NullM0dem> Im guilty of noobness, i started working too much overtime and im retarded at this time....    no time for my n810 :-(
May 15 21:55:27 <Knirch> find a way of making the n810 part of your job
May 15 21:55:41 <KotCzarny> salesman? :>
May 15 21:55:49 <n800n> finnish
May 15 21:56:02 <zap> Is there a normal version of gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg-osso ? It looks like the package from Nokia is very castrated, decodes only MPEG1
May 15 21:56:21 <zap> perhaps due to legal issues
May 15 21:56:28 <KotCzarny> zap: debian.org ?
May 15 21:56:33 <zap> %-O
May 15 21:56:34 <pupnik810> i want a job crawling under secretaries desks again
May 15 21:56:35 <KotCzarny> maybe they have packages for armel
May 15 21:56:36 <zap> will it work?
May 15 21:56:44 <KotCzarny> as long it's armel, sure
May 15 21:56:51 <NullM0dem> pupnik810:who doesent
May 15 21:57:09 * KotCzarny doesn't
May 15 21:57:40 <pupnik810> prob is when the boxen run windos
May 15 21:58:05 <KotCzarny> pupnik: http://www.newstalk980.com/incoming/20080221/unbelievable
May 15 22:00:45 <pupnik810> sounds like a typical person on irc eh
May 15 22:00:56 <KotCzarny> pupnik, heh, read the whole story
May 15 22:01:23 <NullM0dem> good story
May 15 22:03:10 <pupnik810> yaay for internets and computers
May 15 22:03:21 <KotCzarny> yeah
May 15 22:03:39 <KotCzarny> though i would like her to go somewhere else than msn
May 15 22:04:27 <pupnik810> she types better than most kids on youtube
May 15 22:04:40 <n800n> hehe
May 15 22:05:02 <pupnik810> might be a fake story of course
May 15 22:05:15 <KotCzarny> unlikely
May 15 22:05:26 <GeneralAntilles> YouTube is disturbing
May 15 22:05:32 <n800n> i've heard of that before
May 15 22:05:35 <GeneralAntilles> I'm amazed at the levels of stupidity that can be found there.
May 15 22:05:40 <summatusmentis> lardman: you used to use Zauriii right?
May 15 22:05:41 <lardman> Anyone fancy looking at some changes made to an SBC encoder to handle 16bit rather than 8bit chars?
May 15 22:05:48 <lardman> summatusmentis: yes
May 15 22:06:02 <summatusmentis> do you still? why'd you change?
May 15 22:06:06 <pupnik810> sbc ?
May 15 22:06:19 <lardman> summatusmentis: larger screen, built-in wifi
May 15 22:06:23 <lardman> ~sbc
May 15 22:06:29 <lardman> come on infobot!
May 15 22:06:37 <KotCzarny> infobot is sloppy today
May 15 22:06:38 <pupnik810> sokay
May 15 22:06:51 <lardman> http://www.holtmann.org/linux/bluetooth/sbc.html
May 15 22:06:52 <summatusmentis> lardman: and has the NIT been everything your Z used to be?
May 15 22:07:20 <lardman> summatusmentis: yes, though in the first instance I missed the software available from OE
May 15 22:07:40 <lardman> summatusmentis: but we can now build for Maemo from OE, so that's not an issue
May 15 22:08:16 <pupnik810> update yer ssh btw
May 15 22:08:21 <summatusmentis> lardman: so do you think that had you used OE for your Z, you would've kept it?
May 15 22:08:27 <lardman> summatusmentis: The only other minor issue is that any other GUIs aren't so well developed; presumably people are partly put off by the closedness of some components
May 15 22:08:37 <lardman> s/developed/debugged
May 15 22:08:40 <summatusmentis> mm
May 15 22:09:01 <lardman> summatusmentis: I did and although I still have it, I wouldn't think of going back
May 15 22:09:17 <summatusmentis> interesting. The reason I'm interrogating you, considering switching over from my 3200
May 15 22:09:34 <lardman> My latest model was a c750
May 15 22:09:59 <lardman> the N810, with keyboard which was a major pita on the 770/n800, is ideal imho
May 15 22:10:10 <summatusmentis> yeah, that's what I'm looking at
May 15 22:10:18 <lardman> well, obviously things could always be better - PowerVR driver for example ;), but not too bad
May 15 22:10:43 <summatusmentis> and you've never had issues with software?
May 15 22:10:52 <summatusmentis> applications for the NIT, etc.
May 15 22:11:09 <lardman> hw video accel was not as good on the cxxxx machines as on the cxxx machines, but you may take another step back
May 15 22:11:48 <summatusmentis> video accel is bad on the N810's?
May 15 22:11:54 <lardman> summatusmentis: I don't tend to use much, I rather tend to fiddle with things. The PIM is as good, I have anything OE will build
May 15 22:11:58 <KotCzarny> what video accel?
May 15 22:11:59 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 15 22:12:03 <lardman> exactly
May 15 22:12:03 <GeneralAntilles> Non existent at the moment.
May 15 22:12:06 <summatusmentis> lol, oh
May 15 22:12:22 <lardman> screen is also larger, so can suffer from bandwidth issue
May 15 22:12:46 <summatusmentis> so.. mamona isn't a distro, instead it's just building OE stuff? or am I confused?
May 15 22:13:10 <lardman> it might be a distro, is not compatible with the standard Maemo install
May 15 22:13:16 <n800n> how much space would a KDE install take?
May 15 22:13:17 <summatusmentis> mm
May 15 22:13:31 <lardman> there is a config option to build for maemo though (in standard OE conf file)
May 15 22:13:32 <GeneralAntilles> More than is on the built-in flash, n800n.
May 15 22:13:54 <summatusmentis> lardman: interesting
May 15 22:13:55 <n800n> i boot off sd card
May 15 22:14:09 <lardman> summatusmentis: difficult I know
May 15 22:14:16 <n800n> does it need its own partition or does it run inside maemo?
May 15 22:14:40 <summatusmentis> lardman: what's difficult? I know how to use OE :)
May 15 22:14:46 <n800n> found it
May 15 22:14:49 <GeneralAntilles> penguinbait's got a deb intsall up.
May 15 22:15:02 <summatusmentis> wait.. .debs?
May 15 22:15:06 <summatusmentis> on maemo?
May 15 22:15:17 <GeneralAntilles> It amounts to mobile-debian.
May 15 22:15:21 <GeneralAntilles> Uses apt.
May 15 22:15:33 <summatusmentis> so then, why are people putting debian on it?
May 15 22:15:48 <lardman> summatusmentis: the decision I meant
May 15 22:15:56 <summatusmentis> shouldn't we just be able to point it to debain ARMEL repos?
May 15 22:16:00 <GeneralAntilles> Because it only amounts to mobile-debian
May 15 22:16:03 <summatusmentis> lardman: yeah... I love my Z :)
May 15 22:16:05 <GeneralAntilles> it isn't actually Debian.
May 15 22:16:13 <summatusmentis> oh
May 15 22:16:17 <GeneralAntilles> I wish, summatusmentis.
May 15 22:16:26 <KotCzarny> dependency would kill you
May 15 22:16:37 <KotCzarny> and there is some breakage lurking
May 15 22:16:39 <summatusmentis> GeneralAntilles: yeah, I misunderstood
May 15 22:16:44 <KotCzarny> if you replace some system packages
May 15 22:16:52 <GeneralAntilles> One large issue is having Busybox instead of GNUtils
May 15 22:17:00 <pupnik810> we must spread linux to handhelds
May 15 22:17:03 <summatusmentis> ugh... not a fan of Busybox
May 15 22:17:09 <KotCzarny> it's small
May 15 22:17:10 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 22:17:16 <GeneralAntilles> Meh, we've only got so much space and RAM to work with.
May 15 22:17:30 <summatusmentis> we should really just take over the world, and get rid of these stupid closed source corps
May 15 22:17:42 <summatusmentis> GeneralAntilles: 2GB for space, 128Mb ram?
May 15 22:17:51 <GeneralAntilles> 256MB internal flash
May 15 22:17:52 <KotCzarny> 2gb if you boot off it
May 15 22:17:53 <GeneralAntilles> 128MB RAM
May 15 22:17:59 <KotCzarny> by default it's vfat
May 15 22:18:02 <GeneralAntilles> The 2GB is a soldered-on SD card.
May 15 22:18:14 <pupnik810> that is a problem
May 15 22:18:14 <summatusmentis> oh, but that's possible to boot off of?
May 15 22:18:22 <KotCzarny> yes
May 15 22:18:32 <pupnik810> yes with changes
May 15 22:18:35 <summatusmentis> can you create a loop image to boot from?
May 15 22:18:42 <KotCzarny> loop?
May 15 22:18:52 <summatusmentis> yeah, a loop-back file
May 15 22:18:56 <KotCzarny> what for?
May 15 22:19:09 <pupnik810> i would suggest 2x micro sdhc for n900 with boot from sd by default
May 15 22:19:12 <summatusmentis> so that you don't need to reformat the entire 2GB to ext2
May 15 22:19:29 <KotCzarny> you can partition that 2gb
May 15 22:19:30 <GeneralAntilles> Partition it. . . .
May 15 22:19:35 <KotCzarny> it's seen as regular sd card
May 15 22:19:36 <summatusmentis> oh, hrr
May 15 22:19:51 <summatusmentis> and then there are extra microSD ports?
May 15 22:19:57 <KotCzarny> 1
May 15 22:20:04 <summatusmentis> ok, that's fine
May 15 22:20:12 <KotCzarny> vs 2 regular size sd slots on n800
May 15 22:20:15 <KotCzarny> n800 ftw!
May 15 22:20:17 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 22:20:26 <summatusmentis> the n800 didn't have 2GB though?
May 15 22:20:32 <KotCzarny> but has 2 slots
May 15 22:20:34 <pupnik810> CF forevah!
May 15 22:20:38 <KotCzarny> and 2gb is like 9$
May 15 22:20:39 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 22:21:02 <summatusmentis> does the n810 have usb host?
May 15 22:21:11 <KotCzarny> unpowered
May 15 22:21:14 <KotCzarny> ie. 100mA
May 15 22:21:18 <summatusmentis> like the Z, ok
May 15 22:21:30 <GeneralAntilles> It's OTG
May 15 22:21:52 <summatusmentis> hpw does that differ?
May 15 22:22:04 <GeneralAntilles> You can switch modes with a properly grounded cable.
May 15 22:22:10 <KotCzarny> or software
May 15 22:22:32 <summatusmentis> oh, host vs "slave"(don't know what it's called)
May 15 22:22:33 <summatusmentis> cool
May 15 22:22:38 <GeneralAntilles> client
May 15 22:22:49 <summatusmentis> that would make sense
May 15 22:23:35 <summatusmentis> see, I don't know if the Z had that. The software seemed to think it did, but I don't know for sure
May 15 22:24:36 <summatusmentis> how do people get around not having a tab key?
May 15 22:24:51 <KotCzarny> touchscreen
May 15 22:24:52 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 22:24:58 <pupnik810> mapping tab to fn+space for me
May 15 22:25:32 <summatusmentis> and one doesn't need to hold down the fn key for it to register?
May 15 22:25:50 <summatusmentis> like, <press>fn<release><press>space<release>
May 15 22:26:11 <pupnik810> yes
May 15 22:26:13 <MajMin7> hey i just noticed that the N810/800 repositories  at gronmayer.com/it are down
May 15 22:26:34 <MajMin7> http://www.gronmayer.com/it/
May 15 22:26:46 <MajMin7> anyone know what this is about?
May 15 22:26:59 <summatusmentis> I'm heavily leaning towards buying an n810... anyone want a Zaurus c3200? :-D
May 15 22:27:19 <KotCzarny> try #zaurus ?
May 15 22:27:20 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 15 22:27:25 <MajMin7> is there an alternate location for repositories?
May 15 22:27:35 <GeneralAntilles> MajMin7, his website is having trouble.
May 15 22:27:43 <MajMin7> yea
May 15 22:27:50 <summatusmentis> KotCzarny: that's a dead channel. :D
May 15 22:27:56 <MajMin7> this is terrible timing!
May 15 22:28:02 <MajMin7> has this happened before?
May 15 22:28:11 <GeneralAntilles> It's been down before.
May 15 22:28:15 <MajMin7> oh
May 15 22:28:16 <Navi> summatusmentis, don't sell your thing
May 15 22:28:18 <GeneralAntilles> What are you after, anyway?
May 15 22:28:22 <MajMin7> uhm
May 15 22:28:28 <KotCzarny> pupnik: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av9bJ_6VSGc
May 15 22:28:29 <GeneralAntilles> 95% of the stuff you need is in Extras.
May 15 22:28:34 <summatusmentis> Navi: but... but... then i won't be able to afford the n810?
May 15 22:28:39 <MajMin7> i need to get ssh-server and also gainroot
May 15 22:28:42 <MajMin7> thats it
May 15 22:28:47 <MajMin7> are they in extras?
May 15 22:28:50 <summatusmentis> Navi: I'm going through the 'poor college student' phase of my life right now
May 15 22:28:51 <GeneralAntilles> Extras and nitapps.com
May 15 22:28:55 <MajMin7> ohhhh
May 15 22:28:56 <GeneralAntilles> Use easyroot
May 15 22:28:59 <Navi> summatusmentis, :P
May 15 22:29:02 <sp3000> pupnik810: ohh don't make me google for it
May 15 22:29:03 <MajMin7> ahh lifesaver
May 15 22:29:04 <NullM0dem> summatusmentus: I love my n810 it has almost a 2week uptime :)
May 15 22:29:12 <MajMin7> let me try that
May 15 22:29:13 <MajMin7> thanks
May 15 22:29:19 <tank-man> if you are poor, you should be looking at the n800 instead of the n810
May 15 22:29:40 <NullM0dem> i am poor, i saved up
May 15 22:29:46 <pupnik810> sry sp3000
May 15 22:29:46 <summatusmentis> tank-man: hardware keyboard is a must
May 15 22:29:54 <KotCzarny> bt?
May 15 22:29:55 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 22:30:00 * KotCzarny has igo ultra slim
May 15 22:30:00 <tank-man> usb keyboard :)
May 15 22:30:02 <pupnik810> bt ftw
May 15 22:30:38 <summatusmentis> also, going to a workshop where I can get the n810 for $380
May 15 22:30:52 * KotCzarny got n800 for 150$
May 15 22:31:15 <summatusmentis> well lah-di-dah! :)
May 15 22:31:34 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 15 22:31:47 <KotCzarny> and bt kb for 25$
May 15 22:32:20 <summatusmentis> bt kb doesn't work when you're walking around though, unless I'm not understanding what this thing looks like
May 15 22:32:31 <KotCzarny> then you can use osk
May 15 22:32:41 <KotCzarny> it's hard to type when you walking with hw kb too
May 15 22:32:42 <NullM0dem> osk is decent
May 15 22:32:42 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 22:32:57 <KotCzarny> *you are
May 15 22:33:16 <KotCzarny>     "Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber."
May 15 22:33:17 <KotCzarny>     - Plato, Greek philosopher (424 - 348 BC)
May 15 22:33:18 <KotCzarny> lol
May 15 22:33:19 <summatusmentis> is ebay down for others?
May 15 22:33:34 <summatusmentis> wait, fixed
May 15 22:33:35 <KotCzarny> works for me
May 15 22:33:37 <NullM0dem> nice quote
May 15 22:35:38 <summatusmentis> KotCzarny: well, yeah, but easier thank a bt keyboard
May 15 22:35:48 <sp3000> pupnik810: s'ok ;)
May 15 22:35:56 * sp3000 finds /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44 and wins
May 15 22:36:35 <summatusmentis> hrm...
May 15 22:36:56 <summatusmentis> KotCzarny: now you've gotten me all confused... I knew what I wanted, and now you've made me re-think it!
May 15 22:38:04 <MajMin7> hey, is it possible to copy ssh-server off of one N810 and onto another?
May 15 22:38:05 <sp3000> dunno, built in hwkb wins for me
May 15 22:38:05 <pupnik810> n810
May 15 22:38:25 <lardman> summatusmentis: go with built-in
May 15 22:38:30 <pupnik810> best for ultraportable
May 15 22:38:30 <sp3000> also, sun-compatible screen
May 15 22:38:58 <tank-man> the soft case for the n810 is better than the one included with the n800 too
May 15 22:39:01 <pupnik810> but bt is better if you have a table
May 15 22:39:19 <sp3000> onscreen fkb is fine ebough to type on, but the way it takes you out of the context of the app is annoying
May 15 22:39:23 <KotCzarny> bt is reusable
May 15 22:39:27 <KotCzarny> with a phone/laptop etc
May 15 22:39:49 <lardman> pupnik810: full size kb & x2x or the like ;)
May 15 22:40:02 <NullM0dem> MajMin: that would be rough, you would have to know what the deb installs and where, also need to regen your keys. Im not sure if the n810 stores the .deb you may be able to just copy theat
May 15 22:40:06 <NullM0dem> *that
May 15 22:40:20 <MajMin7> ahhhh
May 15 22:40:23 <MajMin7> i was afraid of that
May 15 22:40:35 <NullM0dem> offline?
May 15 22:40:39 <lardman> sp3000: going back and using the onscreen job on the n800 while doing some dev work is stepping back a fair few steos; for me at least
May 15 22:40:50 <MajMin7> the only source I know for ssh-server is gronmayer.com.  I havent found it elsewhere yet
May 15 22:40:56 <MajMin7> is there another source?
May 15 22:41:05 <GeneralAntilles> It's in Extras, MajMin7 . . . like I said. :\
May 15 22:41:14 <NullM0dem> goto extras;
May 15 22:41:14 <MajMin7> oh wait
May 15 22:41:17 <GeneralAntilles> gronmayer isn't a source for anything.
May 15 22:41:18 <MajMin7> i over looked it maybe
May 15 22:41:23 <GeneralAntilles> It's just a list of maemo repos.
May 15 22:41:23 <MajMin7> ok
May 15 22:41:27 <KotCzarny> majmin: enable extras
May 15 22:41:27 * sp3000 sleeps
May 15 22:41:31 <MajMin7> ok
May 15 22:41:42 <KotCzarny> then just install it with app-man or apt-get
May 15 22:41:42 <MajMin7> sorry sorry .  im a bit out of it today
May 15 22:42:55 <MajMin7> uhm
May 15 22:42:58 <MajMin7> enable extras?
May 15 22:43:01 <MajMin7> i dont know what that means
May 15 22:43:10 <KotCzarny> go to app-man
May 15 22:43:13 <GeneralAntilles> Open Application manager
May 15 22:43:15 <GeneralAntilles> Tap the menu
May 15 22:43:18 <GeneralAntilles> Tap Tools
May 15 22:43:25 <GeneralAntilles> Tap Application Catalogs...
May 15 22:43:30 <GeneralAntilles> Edit maemo Extras
May 15 22:43:35 <GeneralAntilles> Uncheck disable
May 15 22:43:48 <MajMin7> oh crap
May 15 22:43:51 <MajMin7> i forgot about this
May 15 22:44:52 <MajMin7> there it is.
May 15 22:44:53 <MajMin7> great.
May 15 22:44:56 <MajMin7> thanks so much
May 15 22:48:27 <KotCzarny> http://galleryoftheabsurd.typepad.com/14/2008/02/beckhams-chines.html
May 15 22:48:33 <KotCzarny> 'now with less lead & toxins'
May 15 22:48:34 <KotCzarny> wtf?
May 15 22:49:21 <summatusmentis> lardman: coding w/ osk is a valid point
May 15 22:49:43 <n800n> haha
May 15 22:49:56 <n800n> less lead and toxins
May 15 22:50:21 <n800n> http://galleryoftheabsurd.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/02/01/reject2.jpg
May 15 22:50:22 <n800n> haha
May 15 22:53:49 <PhosphoricX> Hey, I'm thinking about upgrading to OS2008. Any idea how much space it takes when installed?
May 15 22:54:06 <KotCzarny> it reformats the flash
May 15 22:54:26 <KotCzarny> you can expect ~80-120mb free after that
May 15 22:54:36 <PhosphoricX> KotCzarny: I'm just wondering if my flash is big enough, I have the default on the N800
May 15 22:54:41 <KotCzarny> when cloned to sd card it takes ~200-360mb
May 15 22:54:54 <KotCzarny> PhosphoricX: don't worry
May 15 22:55:00 <KotCzarny> but do a backup of your stuff
May 15 22:55:05 <PhosphoricX> KotCzarny: great thanks!
May 15 22:55:12 <KotCzarny> as the 256mb is wiped over
May 15 22:55:22 <PhosphoricX> KotCzarny: Good to know, I surely will.
May 15 23:00:31 <lardman> summatusmentis: not even coding, just typing in a term - so much easier with a physical kb
May 15 23:01:19 <lardman> and as was said before, some apps resize their view when the on-screen keyboard is used (gnumeric for example) which is sooo annoying
May 15 23:01:36 <lardman> late, bed time for me
May 15 23:01:38 <lardman> night all
May 15 23:01:39 <KotCzarny> lardman: try xvkbd ? :)
May 15 23:02:04 <lardman> KotCzarny: would be better, but still lose screen space
May 15 23:02:12 <KotCzarny> can be moved out of sight
May 15 23:02:19 <KotCzarny> and layout can be changed
May 15 23:02:20 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 23:02:47 <lardman> if it were transparent like the kb in the original debian build for the sl5500, then perhaps :)
May 15 23:02:53 <KotCzarny> yeah
May 15 23:02:57 <KotCzarny> i was thinking about it
May 15 23:02:58 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 23:03:15 <lardman> I coulnd't go back to a device without a physical kb now though
May 15 23:03:19 <KotCzarny> but i haven't found a code to do it
May 15 23:03:35 <lardman> KotCzarny: that was actually vnc iirc
May 15 23:03:49 <lardman> kdrive was compiled to output as a vnc server
May 15 23:06:50 <lardman> anyway, night all
May 15 23:06:55 <PhosphoricX> l8r
May 15 23:26:40 <KotCzarny>     "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
May 15 23:26:40 <KotCzarny>     - Robert A. Heinlein, sci-fi author (1907 - 1988)
May 15 23:26:41 <KotCzarny> heh
May 15 23:27:29 <pupnik>  good stuff
May 15 23:30:41 <KotCzarny> http://www.ecojoes.com/styrofoam-cups-vs-paper-cups/
May 15 23:30:42 <KotCzarny> lol
May 15 23:37:40 <pupnik> AAAAAAGHGGG i cat > instead of cat >>
May 15 23:38:00 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 23:38:02 <KotCzarny> bad cat!
May 15 23:38:22 <KotCzarny> but not as bad as: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3FZtmlHwcA
May 15 23:38:24 <pupnik> at least i remember most of it
May 15 23:55:50 <lopz> re
May 16 00:51:26 <mrlanrat> Hi
May 16 00:51:58 <mrlanrat> what was the final flasher arguments that wont make the IT go into a reboot loop? (for diablo)
May 16 00:52:38 <GeneralAntilles> flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset
May 16 00:52:54 <GeneralAntilles> Otherwise the watchdog will kill it when the connectivity drivers get updated.
May 16 01:07:04 <mrlanrat> I did that, now how do i get it to load the new image over to it?
May 16 01:08:35 <GeneralAntilles> http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/a-pleasant-surprise/
May 16 01:09:17 <mrlanrat> How do i load a new chinook image onto it in linux
May 16 01:09:36 <mrlanrat> iv always used the windows flasher...
May 16 01:09:48 <Gracana> Yay, vtwm on the n800. :)
May 16 01:10:01 * Gracana == Grackle
May 16 01:10:30 <GeneralAntilles> Do you have a custom kernel or initfs installed, mrlanrat?
May 16 01:11:40 <mrlanrat> no
May 16 01:11:46 <mrlanrat> standerd.
May 16 01:11:53 <GeneralAntilles> OK, then: flasher-3.0 -F <FIASCO image> -f -R
May 16 01:11:58 <GeneralAntilles> -F points to the FIASCO image
May 16 01:12:01 <GeneralAntilles> -f tells it to flash it
May 16 01:12:05 <GeneralAntilles> -R tells it to reboot when done.
May 16 01:12:11 <mrlanrat> so i enter that command after the 1st one?
May 16 01:12:13 <mrlanrat> k
May 16 01:18:28 <ds3> 8
May 16 01:19:11 <Navi> 9
May 16 01:19:14 <GeneralAntilles> 10
May 16 01:19:22 <Navi> 11
May 16 01:19:24 <mrlanrat> 12?
May 16 01:19:28 <GeneralAntilles> 13!
May 16 01:19:29 <KotCzarny> 800, i win
May 16 01:19:38 <Navi> 801
May 16 01:19:43 <mrlanrat> that was random.....
May 16 01:19:45 <KotCzarny> too late
May 16 01:19:52 <mrlanrat> 42!!! I win!!!!
May 16 01:19:56 <GeneralAntilles> No, this is IRC.
May 16 01:21:55 <Navi> Weird
May 16 01:22:06 <Navi> thunar wasn't removed when I autoremoved xfce4
May 16 01:27:30 <ds3> has anyone seen a case in OS2008 where it suddenly reverts to a tiny font for everything? rebooting fixes it and I had no idea how it got there
May 16 01:27:57 <GeneralAntilles> No
May 16 01:29:08 <ds3> wonder what i am doing unique as I seem to be having these odd problems (there is another one where the combine backlight/sound applet dies and suddenly things revert to the original sound/screen applets)
May 16 01:29:45 <GeneralAntilles> Erm, that's hildon-desktop crashing.
May 16 01:29:50 <GeneralAntilles> But it's not adv-backlight causing it.
May 16 01:30:01 <ds3> Oh
May 16 01:30:19 <ds3> is hildon-desktop prone to crashing if things run low on memory?
May 16 01:31:06 <GeneralAntilles> It crashes sometimes under very high CPU load for me
May 16 01:31:17 <GeneralAntilles> or when reconnecting a bluetooth keyboard about once every ten times.
May 16 01:31:23 <GeneralAntilles> You have virtual memory enabled?
May 16 01:31:27 <ds3> nope
May 16 01:31:52 <ds3> I also have a problem the osso-mail thing crashing and breaking its POP polling
May 16 01:32:12 <Navi> osso-mail isn't recommended
May 16 01:32:38 <Navi> modest makes a much better email client on the nits
May 16 01:32:51 <Navi> you could go with claws-mail too if you want
May 16 01:33:45 <Navi> Ugh
May 16 01:33:49 <Navi> I hate the current wiki
May 16 01:33:58 <Navi> the editing controls keep disappearing
May 16 01:34:49 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
May 16 01:35:13 <Navi> they were too low and I tried to move them up a little
May 16 01:35:24 <Navi> and they flew off the display area
May 16 01:35:32 <mrlanrat> This is going to sound really weird....
May 16 01:35:33 <ds3> do any of them integrate with the flashing bluelight and the icon thing on the lower left side?
May 16 01:35:42 <mrlanrat> my n810 is talking to me
May 16 01:35:52 <mrlanrat> i just reflashed it and i was inatalling my 1st app
May 16 01:35:58 <mrlanrat> and it started talking
May 16 01:36:13 <mrlanrat> it says hello something....
May 16 01:36:19 <mrlanrat> its hard to make out...
May 16 01:36:22 <Navi> ds3, email?
May 16 01:36:29 <ds3> Navi: yeah
May 16 01:36:37 <Navi> ds3, modest notifies you using the led, yes
May 16 01:36:56 <ds3> Navi: right now the blue LED flashes when I have new mail and if I am just looking at screen, the icon flashes and tapping on it gives me the subject line
May 16 01:37:18 <GeneralAntilles> Modest is replacing osso-email in Diablo, ds3.
May 16 01:37:25 <GeneralAntilles> It supports everything osso-email does.
May 16 01:37:27 <ds3> not thrilled with osso-mail but I like consistancy and integration more
May 16 01:37:31 <ds3> Oh nice
May 16 01:37:37 <ds3> is it in a repo or just a garage project?
May 16 01:38:14 <GeneralAntilles> garage for now
May 16 01:38:17 <GeneralAntilles> modest.garage.maemo.org
May 16 01:38:21 <GeneralAntilles> Like I said, it's shipping with Diablo.
May 16 01:38:28 <ds3> I'll look into installing it tonight
May 16 01:38:31 <GeneralAntilles> You install flite, mrlanrat?
May 16 01:38:38 <mrlanrat> no
May 16 01:38:39 <Navi> It's about as integrated as osso-mail is
May 16 01:38:49 <ds3> so far I am very very happy with how well integrated the rtcomm beta stuff is
May 16 01:39:07 <Navi> mrlanrat, haha, your tablet is sentient
May 16 01:39:12 <Navi> Hello Dave.
May 16 01:39:30 <mrlanrat> fine!
May 16 01:39:50 <Navi> dneary, ping
May 16 01:41:05 <Navi> I'd be really sad if nobody got the 2001 reference
May 16 01:41:17 <Navi> Oh, nevermind, GeneralAntilles is here :/
May 16 01:41:32 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
May 16 01:41:43 <ds3> anyone other users of the rtcomm stuff here?
May 16 01:41:56 <Navi> I had it
May 16 01:42:02 <ds3> had? what made you get rid of it?
May 16 01:42:03 <Navi> a lot of people do
May 16 01:42:12 <Navi> Oh, I reflashed and never bothered to reinstall
May 16 01:42:24 <Navi> wow
May 16 01:42:28 <ds3> are there known problems?
May 16 01:42:50 <Navi> a google search for "imap gmail claws-mail" comes up with ITT as the second hit :/
May 16 01:43:05 <Navi> ds3, I've never had any problem with it other than buddy icons not working for myself
May 16 01:43:09 <Navi> I see other's icons though
May 16 01:43:32 <ds3> cool
May 16 01:44:13 <ds3> the only want it could be better is if there is a nicely integrated VPN package so I can send/receive IM's over a VPN
May 16 01:46:50 <KotCzarny> use ssh ?
May 16 01:46:51 <KotCzarny> :)
May 16 01:47:19 <ds3> got a package to restart ssh on network connect? conceptionally that is a simple dbus listen and act thing
May 16 01:48:00 <KotCzarny> hmm, while (1) do { ssh something; sleep 1; }
May 16 01:48:02 <KotCzarny> or something
May 16 01:48:03 <KotCzarny> :)
May 16 01:48:29 <ds3> network changes do not always kill the process :(
May 16 01:48:45 <ds3> I don't suppose there are ifup scripts?
May 16 01:48:55 <KotCzarny> i think they are
May 16 01:49:01 <KotCzarny> *there
May 16 01:49:15 <Navi> claws is nicer than I remember it
May 16 01:49:44 <Navi> doesn't look completely ugly anymore :P
May 16 01:49:49 <johnx> summatusmentis, still around?
May 16 01:50:02 <Navi> zomg, eetz johnx
May 16 01:50:12 <johnx> behold! I leeeeeeeev!
May 16 01:50:16 <Navi> Haha
May 16 01:50:29 <Navi> summatusmentis: yes, I'm still around
May 16 01:50:35 <Navi> johnx: okay, bye tyeh
May 16 01:50:43 <Navi> s/tyeh/then/
May 16 01:50:43 <infobot> Navi meant: johnx: okay, bye then
May 16 01:51:15 <johnx> that was live actually just kinda stretched out
May 16 01:51:35 <johnx> just woke up
May 16 01:51:37 <KotCzarny> it could be also streched 'leave'
May 16 01:51:38 <KotCzarny> :)
May 16 01:51:48 <johnx> yeah, just realized that
May 16 01:53:47 <Navi> Mmm
May 16 01:53:55 <Navi> GeneralAntilles, when's your hava coming in?
May 16 01:54:06 <Navi> johnx, openbox is nice on debian
May 16 01:54:35 <Navi> I bound the menu to the menu key to make up for the lack of a right click
May 16 01:54:37 <GeneralAntilles> Friday
May 16 01:54:45 <GeneralAntilles> Gotta talk my mother through setting it up. :<
May 16 01:54:58 <Navi> mmk
May 16 01:55:13 <Navi> johnx, at the moment, it's only taking up 55MB RAM/12MB swap
May 16 01:55:28 <Navi> this is with claws mail and urxvt open
May 16 01:56:30 <johnx> very nice
May 16 01:56:46 <johnx> I think I'll sacrifice my menu key to the keyboard app
May 16 01:56:58 <johnx> having it bound to center-dpad is too annoying
May 16 01:57:18 <KotCzarny> centre dpad is naturally enter
May 16 01:57:23 <Navi> I'm going to bind F6 to it
May 16 01:57:29 <Navi> the dpad is also enter
May 16 01:57:41 <Navi> er
May 16 01:57:47 <Navi> the center button of the dpad is also enter
May 16 01:57:49 <johnx> yeah, it looks like just a quick hack
May 16 01:58:06 <Navi> so if you hit that, the enter keyboard event will still be sent to the app
May 16 01:58:30 <Gracana> Hey johnx, I have vtwm running on debian. I ended up using your tarball.. Getting it going from scratch was beginning to take more effort than I wanted to put in.
May 16 01:58:35 <summatusmentis> johnx: yep, what's up?
May 16 01:58:55 <Gracana> Anyway, I only see a couple fonts. Any idea how I would get more fonts to be recognized?
May 16 01:58:59 <johnx> ah, I just saw you pinged me...then I read the rest of the discussion. any more questions?
May 16 01:59:28 <Navi> claws mail tiny screen mode is pretty useful
May 16 01:59:38 <johnx> Gracana, I think debian uses defoma for font management ... but I was always kind of fuzzy on that subject myself
May 16 01:59:39 <summatusmentis> johnx: well, what's you take on N810 vs. Z 3200?
May 16 01:59:44 <summatusmentis> your*
May 16 02:00:30 <johnx> well I have an N800 and a C1000...but the N810 is noticeably more powerful and 128MB of RAM is nice to have
May 16 02:00:44 <johnx> plus not having a wireless card sticking out the side...
May 16 02:01:08 <johnx> N810 more powerful than a Z...the N810 and N800 are equally as fast of course
May 16 02:01:11 <summatusmentis> that's partially the reason I'm considering switching
May 16 02:01:23 <summatusmentis> I'm not sure how much ram my 3200 has
May 16 02:01:45 <johnx> 64MB
May 16 02:02:06 <Navi> :D
May 16 02:02:08 <johnx> what are you mainly interested in doing with it?
May 16 02:02:23 <summatusmentis> oh, yeah, I guess that makes sense. Is there anything your Z did that you wish your N8x0 did?
May 16 02:02:32 <summatusmentis> Mostly web/email/IM/irc
May 16 02:02:33 <Gracana> johnx, do you see many fonts in your font selection dialog? It seems that I have vastly less fonts once I got rid of xfce
May 16 02:02:40 <summatusmentis> but I want to have a terminal, and I want ssh
May 16 02:02:47 <Navi> Gracana, install fonts from the repos
May 16 02:03:02 <Navi> when you removed xfce4, you removed the ones it installed as well :P
May 16 02:03:09 <summatusmentis> gotta head out, bbl
May 16 02:03:16 <Navi> heh
May 16 02:03:16 <Gracana> Navi, do you know this for a fact?
May 16 02:03:28 <Gracana> Because I don't think I did.
May 16 02:03:34 * Gracana looks at logs
May 16 02:04:39 <Navi> obconf is really heavy :/
May 16 02:04:58 <Navi> Gracana, actually, nevermind
May 16 02:05:03 <Navi> My fonts are still all installed
May 16 02:05:33 <johnx> summatusmentis, an N810 is probably worth it. Web browsing on a z will never be that great simply because of memory
May 16 02:05:48 <Navi> which reminds me
May 16 02:05:51 <Gracana> hmm Navi
May 16 02:05:53 <Navi> We should try to get fennec working
May 16 02:06:01 <Gracana> I think xfce just knows something that my session doesn't
May 16 02:06:11 <Navi> ?
May 16 02:06:41 <Gracana> That is, xfce knows where my fonts are.
May 16 02:06:47 <Gracana> And vtwm/rxvt don't
May 16 02:08:00 <Gracana> ROXTerm can find fonts.
May 16 02:08:08 <Navi> :P
May 16 02:08:49 <Gracana> Yeah, there they all are. Hmm.
May 16 02:09:20 <johnx> run xlsftonts
May 16 02:10:06 <KotCzarny> xlsfonts usually doesn't know about freetype fonts
May 16 02:10:09 <Gracana> kaboom
May 16 02:10:27 <Gracana> all my windows disappeared and I'm staring at an empty root window and can't move my cursor :P
May 16 02:10:31 * Gracana tries to ssh in
May 16 02:10:38 <johnx> O_o
May 16 02:10:45 <Gracana> Nogo.
May 16 02:10:57 <Gracana> Ah, it shut down completely.
May 16 02:12:23 <Navi> heh
May 16 02:13:09 <Gracana> Aw, it booted but didn't like my .xsession
May 16 02:13:21 * Gracana boots from flash to fix things
May 16 02:13:28 <Navi> :P
May 16 02:13:46 <Gracana> Blinking d-pad light and it shut down o.o
May 16 02:13:56 <Navi> Does rxvt itself even support freetype fonts?
May 16 02:14:22 <KotCzarny> well
May 16 02:14:24 <johnx> dunno...on my desktop I use rxvt-unicode but that's kind heavy
May 16 02:14:34 <Navi> Heh
May 16 02:14:47 <Navi> I'm using rxvt-unicode right now :P
May 16 02:15:01 <Gracana> Wow, this thing sure is fucked. :X
May 16 02:15:04 <Navi> urxvtd and urxvtc is great
May 16 02:15:40 * Gracana notices charger not connected
May 16 02:15:45 <Gracana> I wonder if that has anything to do with it.
May 16 02:15:52 <Gracana> Seems unlikely.
May 16 02:15:54 <Navi> might be out of power :P
May 16 02:16:06 <Gracana> I hope that's all.
May 16 02:16:11 <johnx> Navi, when yours shut down from "out of power" in debian what did it do?
May 16 02:16:23 <Navi> blink out
May 16 02:16:26 <Gracana> I have been dicking around with it for a while
May 16 02:16:30 <johnx> no blue light?
May 16 02:16:32 <Navi> nope
May 16 02:16:39 <Navi> at least, not that I remember
May 16 02:17:54 * johnx eats breakfast (back in a bit)
May 16 02:21:13 <KotCzarny>     "When angry, count to four. When very angry, swear."
May 16 02:21:13 <KotCzarny>     - Mark Twain, humorist and author (1835 - 1910)
May 16 02:21:14 <KotCzarny> :)
May 16 02:28:01 <Gracana> johnx, did you make xfce do anything out of the ordinary when it started?
May 16 02:28:13 <Gracana> Something that other window managers might need to do?
May 16 02:29:28 <Gracana> Erm, nevermind, it seems to have worked.
May 16 02:29:50 <Gracana> aside from needing to run xsetroot
May 16 02:32:15 <Navi> :P
May 16 02:32:42 <Navi> hmm
May 16 02:33:27 <Gracana> Hmm. Booted up and I see a white screen. Taps register (I hear sound), but there are no graphics. I've heard of this problem before.
May 16 02:33:34 <Navi> ew
May 16 02:34:37 <Navi> johnx, you should consider switching to a wm as a default
May 16 02:35:43 <Gracana> It's not the WSOD, because other graphics do show up. Just a strange problem.
May 16 02:35:48 <Navi> heh
May 16 02:35:56 <Navi> johnx, could you build transset for me?
May 16 02:36:39 <KotCzarny> with wsod you won't be seeing initial 'nokia' logo
May 16 02:36:40 <KotCzarny> :)
May 16 02:36:42 <Gracana> Does anyone else have the problem where the charging screen comes up after they've made a bootloader selection?
May 16 02:36:44 <Navi> The reasons for not doing it myself is not so great
May 16 02:37:05 <Navi> I don't see it as a problem
May 16 02:37:18 <Gracana> But you do see it?
May 16 02:37:21 <Navi> yes
May 16 02:37:24 <Gracana> Okay.
May 16 02:38:16 <Gracana> I seem to have lost keyboard control.
May 16 02:38:31 * Gracana having all sorts of fun
May 16 02:39:53 <Gracana> Are there any modules I should have loaded to use a usb keyboard?
May 16 02:41:12 <mrlanrat> no
May 16 02:41:22 <mrlanrat> its all built in :)
May 16 02:41:36 <Gracana> crap :/
May 16 02:41:43 <mrlanrat> y?
May 16 02:41:59 <Gracana> I don't suppose I could damage my device by attaching it to my computer while it's in host mode..
May 16 02:43:00 <Navi> poor Gracana
May 16 02:43:23 * Gracana plugged in the wrong cable
May 16 02:43:27 <Navi> lmao
May 16 02:43:40 <mrlanrat> hmm
May 16 02:43:50 <Gracana> Navi, I'm not so sure that's the problem though.
May 16 02:43:53 <mrlanrat> I just found an easter egg in OS 2008
May 16 02:43:58 <Navi> ZOMG
May 16 02:44:28 <KotCzarny> easter egg or a bug?
May 16 02:44:29 <KotCzarny> :)
May 16 02:44:35 <Gracana> easter-bug
May 16 02:44:59 <mrlanrat> egg
May 16 02:45:06 <mrlanrat> this is most defenetly an egg.
May 16 02:45:12 <mrlanrat> ;)
May 16 02:45:37 <KotCzarny> 'definitely'
May 16 02:45:37 <KotCzarny> :)
May 16 02:45:48 <mrlanrat> :(
May 16 02:45:51 <Gracana> Okay, now this sure is weird. *hits power button and shutdown dialog comes up*
May 16 02:45:54 <mrlanrat> yha, what he said
May 16 02:45:57 <Gracana> But I still have the white background.
May 16 02:46:20 <mrlanrat> hmm....
May 16 02:46:38 <mrlanrat> recreating this egg is difficult....
May 16 02:46:38 <penguinbait> mrlanrat, did you install the boot from sd deb?
May 16 02:46:47 <mrlanrat> but id now done it sevral times...
May 16 02:46:49 <mrlanrat> yes
May 16 02:46:55 <penguinbait> any problems?
May 16 02:47:01 <mrlanrat> u know what im talking about?
May 16 02:47:13 <mrlanrat> well, my N810 started talking to me....
May 16 02:47:26 <penguinbait> its from the boot from SD deb
May 16 02:47:38 <mrlanrat> why did u put that in there?
May 16 02:47:45 <penguinbait> My name is Linus Torvalds, and I pronounce Linux, Linux
May 16 02:47:58 <mrlanrat> http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/media/saylinux.avi
May 16 02:48:02 <mrlanrat> yha
May 16 02:48:03 <mrlanrat> that
May 16 02:48:03 <penguinbait> I wanted play a wav for notification
May 16 02:48:18 <mrlanrat> o, i thought it was an egg...
May 16 02:48:27 <penguinbait> so I used that one, I used to hear it on RedHat all the time
May 16 02:48:37 <mrlanrat> nice....
May 16 02:49:05 <mrlanrat> there is only 1 problem.....
May 16 02:49:26 <penguinbait> after installing the boot from SD deb, if you boot to flash, it will search for ext2 partitions on /dev/mmcblkXp2 and fsck them
May 16 02:49:34 <penguinbait> it plays a wav when complete
May 16 02:49:56 <mrlanrat> i still hear it even after i have removed my sd card, reflashed my N810, and booted off flash....
May 16 02:50:26 <penguinbait> No you dont
May 16 02:50:35 <penguinbait> if you reflashed its gone
May 16 02:50:50 <mrlanrat> well, my sd card is on my desk right now and everytime i boot i hear it.
May 16 02:51:01 <mrlanrat> let me try again....
May 16 02:51:21 <penguinbait> so you have my deb installed right
May 16 02:51:30 <mrlanrat> yha
May 16 02:51:47 <penguinbait> then it will play that wav when you boot to flash
May 16 02:51:53 <mrlanrat> o
May 16 02:52:10 <mrlanrat> I thought u meant only to SD.
May 16 02:52:14 <penguinbait> even if no SD cards are inserted
May 16 02:52:36 <mrlanrat> o
May 16 02:52:36 <penguinbait> you cannot fsck a filesystem that is running
May 16 02:52:36 <mrlanrat> ok
May 16 02:52:49 <KotCzarny> panguinbait: maybe you have booted to flash by mistake and did some changes while there?
May 16 02:53:01 <KotCzarny> and didn't noticed the mishap?
May 16 02:53:02 <KotCzarny> :)
May 16 02:53:32 <penguinbait> so after any crash while running from SD, you should boot to flash, and it will fsck the filesystems on the SD card and play a wav when complete
May 16 02:54:16 <mrlanrat> ok
May 16 02:54:38 <penguinbait> even if you uninstall my deb, that will stay :)
May 16 02:54:40 <penguinbait> hehe
May 16 02:55:01 <mrlanrat> i noticed.....
May 16 02:55:08 <mrlanrat> any way to remove it?
May 16 02:55:13 <penguinbait> you can remove it if you like
May 16 02:55:31 <penguinbait> rm -rf /root/.linus/
May 16 02:55:33 <mrlanrat> i use my n810 in school a lot, random sounds are not good.
May 16 02:55:57 <penguinbait> also you can cat /tmp/fsck.txt to see fsck info
May 16 02:56:10 <penguinbait> while in flash of course
May 16 02:56:23 <penguinbait> its only on boot
May 16 02:56:30 <penguinbait> one time
May 16 02:56:35 <penguinbait> and only boot to flash
May 16 02:56:45 <mrlanrat> k
May 16 02:57:06 <penguinbait> like I said you can remove the wav file
May 16 02:57:20 <mrlanrat> yha, i will
May 16 02:57:27 <mrlanrat> but it was funny.
May 16 02:57:40 <penguinbait> then you could just watch /tmp/fsck.txt if you want to see if fsck is finished
May 16 02:57:50 <mrlanrat> k
May 16 02:57:53 <johnx> Navi, which WM do you think?
May 16 02:58:06 <Navi> johnx, E17? :D
May 16 02:58:11 <penguinbait> xfce 4.4.2
May 16 02:58:17 <Navi> Bleh
May 16 02:58:24 <johnx> penguinbait, heh...I'm already doing that
May 16 02:58:35 <johnx> *I* like it, it is kinda heavy
May 16 02:58:40 <penguinbait> hahaha
May 16 02:58:43 <penguinbait> heavy?
May 16 02:58:56 <penguinbait> its like nothing on mine?
May 16 02:58:59 <Navi> :P
May 16 02:59:04 <johnx> too much memory usage compared to *box
May 16 02:59:11 <johnx> or icewm or fvwm
May 16 02:59:49 <penguinbait> XFCE is pretty configurable though,without too much effort
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 16 02:59:57 2008