**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 19 02:59:57 2008 May 19 03:00:07 what's version 2.2007.53-3? Chinook? May 19 03:00:18 51-3 May 19 03:00:23 is chinook May 19 03:00:30 thanks May 19 03:00:30 gern geschehen, unixSnob May 19 03:08:44 ? May 19 03:09:17 infobot now responds without a trigger. . . . May 19 03:09:24 infobot, go kill yourself. May 19 03:09:34 ga: who owns infobot? May 19 03:10:01 and why it's a person which is never here? May 19 03:11:10 infobot, what's my name!? May 19 03:12:19 infobot, you're a useless, heaping, pile of trash. May 19 03:12:19 I know you are but what am I? May 19 03:12:33 A 2nd grader. May 19 03:12:38 whoah, it can spit back grade school retorts May 19 03:12:40 impressive May 19 03:13:17 it's just stupid to leave a bot running without supervision.. May 19 03:13:22 and irritating May 19 03:15:23 I miss _Monkey May 19 03:15:31 at least he was personable. May 19 03:16:40 i thought infobot was supposed to be useful May 19 03:16:45 doesn't he have some sort of... May 19 03:16:50 !infobot debian May 19 03:16:53 !debian May 19 03:16:56 infobot debian May 19 03:16:57 http://www.debian.org. See http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/index.en.html#contents May 19 03:17:07 infobot ukmp May 19 03:17:08 rm_you: now it's getting retarded May 19 03:17:13 and lagged May 19 03:17:18 hrm May 19 03:17:29 i thought he had some sort of maemo-wiki tie-in May 19 03:31:14 * unixSnob would like to grab this cheap battery for backup power => http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=204290527 - but suspects the NIT will overdraw it May 19 03:32:36 1A at 5V is ~5W May 19 03:32:48 tech specs list: Output - 20 watts = 3 minutes; 16 watt = continuous May 19 03:32:59 so you should be fine May 19 03:33:19 or not May 19 03:33:28 they also list: USB - 5V DC (250mA) May 19 03:33:58 person that prepared that listing is clueless May 19 03:33:59 :) May 19 03:34:24 Somebody want to try and reproduce this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2702 May 19 03:36:20 KotCzarny: I suspect the USB port is has some extra electronics that can't take the same output that the AC output can May 19 03:36:41 nasty bug if its reproducable May 19 03:37:01 KotCzarny: not exactly clueless May 19 03:37:10 USB compliance means <= 500mA May 19 03:37:15 nope May 19 03:37:20 100 mA for low power May 19 03:37:25 (no negotiation) May 19 03:37:58 but then, they draw 300mA @ 9.5V May 19 03:38:20 250 mA could only be a drawback of their DC/DC converter May 19 03:38:29 Most USB hubs will supply 500mA, and they are still within USB specs May 19 03:38:41 still, that price suggests this battery is old May 19 03:38:41 that's 500mA per port May 19 03:38:44 unixSnob: 500 mA is actually required by Full USB spec May 19 03:38:52 and they want to clear their warehouse May 19 03:39:10 well, 1200 mAh NiMH is replacable May 19 03:39:18 oh wait, it's 9V NiMH? May 19 03:39:23 depends on cells used May 19 03:39:25 :) May 19 03:39:25 might be hard to find May 19 03:39:43 i just want to walk around with a backpack full of some sort of battery May 19 03:39:51 be it a car battery or a bunch of cells May 19 03:39:55 ;> May 19 03:40:09 I'm building such a device, got almost everything ready May 19 03:40:11 rm_you 12V gel accus are nice May 19 03:40:12 :) May 19 03:40:15 except proper soldering iron May 19 03:40:24 KotCzarny: and very expensive May 19 03:40:25 know anywhere i can buy them like... bulk? :P May 19 03:40:28 astorm: have you done any tests? May 19 03:40:30 lol May 19 03:40:32 astorm: not really May 19 03:40:37 KotCzarny: tests like? May 19 03:40:47 it's not soldered yet May 19 03:40:55 astorm: what voltages/currents n8x0 needs/accepts May 19 03:40:59 ah, that May 19 03:41:09 current I haven't tested May 19 03:41:17 it can take 5,5V in w/o a problem May 19 03:41:29 and 4,8V too May 19 03:41:41 how about 3.6V ? May 19 03:41:42 :) May 19 03:42:05 Not sure, don't have proper power source to test ;P May 19 03:42:13 3xAA ? May 19 03:42:15 :P May 19 03:42:23 3x NiMH you mean May 19 03:42:33 the problem is plug, duh May 19 03:42:37 nimh come in misc form factors May 19 03:42:50 not some random AA, because that is 1,5V May 19 03:43:02 3x 1,5V is a bit more than 3,6V May 19 03:43:14 depends on usage May 19 03:43:15 :) May 19 03:43:25 blah blah, drops to at least 1,4V May 19 03:43:59 if it's Menelaus controlling power, then it should work even off 2,8V May 19 03:44:19 but it will be wasteful May 19 03:44:47 maximum current drain is 800-something mA May 19 03:44:47 hmm May 19 03:44:59 i think it can simply shutdown on low power May 19 03:45:23 sorry, wrong May 19 03:45:44 800-something is just the power usage of the device May 19 03:45:54 charging eats like to 400 mA May 19 03:46:16 so, 1A and up is nice May 19 03:46:36 I wonder why Nokia used this weak power supply then... May 19 03:47:05 maybe it's not that weak May 19 03:47:17 this 800-something mA is only pulled during full usage, with BT, Wifi and both SD cards active May 19 03:47:20 Somebody want to try and reproduce this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2757 May 19 03:47:26 and full CPU usage May 19 03:47:56 i would like to scale #8 from retu to actual battery voltage May 19 03:47:56 and fully lit screen May 19 03:48:14 KotCzarny: grab a cheap multimeter, cost is about 20 PLN May 19 03:48:32 yeah May 19 03:48:34 i have one May 19 03:48:35 (well, calling that a multimeter is overstatement, but it will be accurate enough in this range) May 19 03:48:36 GeneralAntilles: if i knew where my n800 was May 19 03:48:45 it's packed away in one of my suitecases May 19 03:48:48 First it doesn't work, now you've lost it? May 19 03:48:48 <_< May 19 03:48:51 then plug battery through it May 19 03:48:53 lol May 19 03:48:55 i'm in the process of moving May 19 03:48:57 I travel with it in my POCKET. :P May 19 03:49:01 i WILL be May 19 03:49:07 but my flight isnt for a week May 19 03:49:11 Ha May 19 03:49:15 and i have a lot of stuff to carry May 19 03:49:22 GeneralAntilles: I guess you have huge pockets May 19 03:49:26 and i'm house-hopping like every other day May 19 03:49:29 as N810 barely fits May 19 03:49:32 No, I have perfectly normal sized pockets. May 19 03:49:38 I just don't wear women's pants. :P May 19 03:49:50 *stab* May 19 03:49:55 i carry n800 in my backpack May 19 03:50:07 AStorm: normally, i carry my n800, travel keyboard, gps, cell phone, wallet, keys, headphones and usb SD reader May 19 03:50:10 all in my pockets May 19 03:50:20 why do you need sd reader May 19 03:50:23 you have n800 May 19 03:50:23 well, the trick is I only have two of these May 19 03:50:24 :) May 19 03:50:29 rm_you frequently looks like he has leg tumors. May 19 03:50:32 KotCzarny: full-size SD May 19 03:50:41 so i can pull the card out of my n800 wherever i am and put stuff on it / pull stuff off it May 19 03:50:57 GeneralAntilles: I can't reproduce.. kuz my control panel doesn't have an option to create a swap file May 19 03:50:58 so, USB reader is handy (not sure if it can run on 100 mA N810 provides on USB port) May 19 03:51:03 astorm: yes, adapters are tiny May 19 03:51:04 :) May 19 03:51:29 well, i have n800, so the usb SD reader is so other computers can read my SD card May 19 03:51:31 unixSnob, Control Panel: Menu: Virtual -> Check the box. May 19 03:51:31 astorm: and you can simply put adapter inside n800 May 19 03:51:34 KotCzarny: down size? May 19 03:51:35 brb May 19 03:51:42 where do I get such an adapter? May 19 03:52:02 astorm: allegro ? May 19 03:52:03 7th dimension, AStorm. May 19 03:52:04 :) May 19 03:52:05 rm_you: somebody doesn't have a laptop? May 19 03:52:07 From Marry Poppins. May 19 03:52:15 GeneralAntilles: that was weak ;P May 19 03:52:28 Minus extra r May 19 03:52:28 astorm: he has n800 May 19 03:52:30 not n810 May 19 03:52:34 rm_you: and, use USB cable May 19 03:52:38 ah, I lose May 19 03:52:39 AStorm: i'm on my laptop right now :P May 19 03:52:53 Laptops suck. May 19 03:52:55 I need a down-size SD to miniSD May 19 03:52:58 ;P May 19 03:52:59 and it has an SD reader in it May 19 03:53:05 may stick out of the port May 19 03:53:10 but i'm talking about for random other machines May 19 03:53:15 like any of the machines at school May 19 03:53:23 rm_you: N800 has a reader too, so... use the USB cable May 19 03:53:23 rm_you, n800 can act as a usb reader May 19 03:53:24 :) May 19 03:53:32 *an May 19 03:53:38 GeneralAntilles: control panel does not have a "virtual" option in the menu May 19 03:53:51 yeah <_< but it does weird things when i plug it in May 19 03:53:55 Are you following my steps? No. May 19 03:53:57 cause it takes away the drives May 19 03:54:03 Control Panel, open the Memory item May 19 03:54:06 tap the Virtual tap May 19 03:54:10 rm_you: yes, it does May 19 03:54:10 s/tap/tab/2 May 19 03:54:14 i generally only want it to take one May 19 03:54:30 since i'm usually running things off one of them :P May 19 03:54:32 then use the other May 19 03:54:34 :> May 19 03:54:43 right May 19 03:54:49 You should get one of jolouis's adaptors and take a flash drive with you. May 19 03:54:51 but if i plug the n800 in to usb it automatically steals both May 19 03:54:55 <_< May 19 03:55:11 Less bulk than an sd reader. May 19 03:55:15 GeneralAntilles: uhm, which pendrive works on 100mA? May 19 03:55:24 GeneralAntilles: found it.. you didn't say 'memory' the first time. It's creating it.. and it's rather slow May 19 03:55:30 (most new larger ones don't) May 19 03:56:11 My SanDisk Cruzer Titanium 2GB May 19 03:56:15 anyway, a tiny battery-powered hub would be great May 19 03:56:23 GeneralAntilles: ah, that's not huge May 19 03:56:27 but big enough :-) May 19 03:56:33 damn that's slow.. probably 60-80 secs to create a 16MB swap file May 19 03:56:45 It's creating a loopback image. May 19 03:56:55 ga: not true May 19 03:57:05 Seems faster in Diablo, anyway. May 19 03:57:08 swapfile isn't mounted via loopback May 19 03:57:20 exactly May 19 03:57:31 swapfile is mounted directly via swap driver May 19 03:57:42 (AKA cachefs?) May 19 03:57:57 but swapfile on vfat sucks May 19 03:57:58 :) May 19 03:58:06 nah, why? May 19 03:58:15 if it's contiguous, it doesn't matter which FS it's on May 19 03:58:24 because vfat and mmc drivers are not a best fit May 19 03:58:37 someone mentioned that vfat is quirky with mmc May 19 03:58:38 ext and mmc drivers aren't either May 19 03:59:00 yes, vfat and ext both hit the first few writeblocks hard May 19 03:59:20 reiser would be better (talking stable FSes) May 19 03:59:37 although journalling, meh, not that good too May 19 03:59:42 astorm: doesn't matter with wear levelling May 19 03:59:48 does matter May 19 03:59:52 not that much May 19 03:59:53 it limits performance May 19 04:00:03 if you make a write, you have to rewrite the whole block May 19 04:00:09 yes, i know May 19 04:00:28 thus, you get at least two blocks (allocation tables) May 19 04:01:09 B-tree FSes are more spread out May 19 04:01:22 and usually tree is closer to files May 19 04:01:52 although you'd need copy-on-write to be fully efficient (or a spread-out journal) May 19 04:01:53 doesn't matter with flash May 19 04:01:59 does matter May 19 04:02:03 not that much May 19 04:02:04 number of writeblocks May 19 04:02:12 esp. with slower flash May 19 04:02:20 but no seek hit May 19 04:02:21 and the writeblocks are becoming larger May 19 04:02:31 no seek, but lowers transfer a lot May 19 04:02:36 halves actually May 19 04:02:43 (or worse) May 19 04:02:50 but reads are fast May 19 04:02:51 :) May 19 04:02:55 yes May 19 04:03:08 anyway, we need an FS optimized for flash disks May 19 04:03:21 (i.e. btrfs) May 19 04:03:27 you can always try having journal on another card May 19 04:03:28 ;) May 19 04:03:31 GeneralAntilles: I could not repeat the issue on an n800. No trash left behind on either mmc chip May 19 04:03:41 Excellent, thanks unixSnob. May 19 04:04:02 KotCzarny: that won't help May 19 04:04:09 the problem is wear then ;) May 19 04:04:21 astorm: nope, it will help May 19 04:04:23 if it were that easy, you could just use RAID0 May 19 04:04:49 remember that you write to journal too on most write operations May 19 04:04:51 the trick is placing all writes close together May 19 04:05:05 you don't care too much about fragmentation on flash drives May 19 04:05:22 astorm: or cloning whole blocks? May 19 04:05:27 too slow May 19 04:06:13 think 400 * 1MB blocks May 19 04:06:44 add a write to the first block every few, you'll see how it impacts performance May 19 04:07:00 bigger caches would be nice May 19 04:07:01 the best case is only one write to the allocation table May 19 04:07:04 if we had the mem May 19 04:07:05 ;) May 19 04:07:34 btw. is write caching on for mmc on maemo? May 19 04:07:45 I guess not. May 19 04:07:50 check dmesg May 19 04:08:05 what should i look for? May 19 04:08:52 for write-through and write-back May 19 04:09:18 omg, JSP *sucks* May 19 04:10:02 bonus points for having to set up some Tomcat server May 19 04:10:04 argh! May 19 04:10:26 :) May 19 04:11:44 also, I don't seem to have javax.servlet... or NetBeans (suck) isn't reading that May 19 04:12:31 Hi. Is the package osso-software-version important? To upgrade my packages, it says i must remove this. Running an N800 on OS2008. May 19 04:12:43 No, I do, suck isn't reading it. May 19 04:12:50 blahdeblah-lap: you can hack around it May 19 04:12:58 AStorm: how? May 19 04:13:04 it is just the control panel applet though May 19 04:13:30 what do you mean? May 19 04:13:31 blahdeblah-lap: in /var/cache/apt/something... May 19 04:48:14 guys May 19 04:48:16 The N900 will come with support for Quad-band GSM, HSDPA, WiMAX, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. May 19 04:48:23 is it really true? May 19 04:48:25 :'''( May 19 04:48:27 no May 19 04:48:33 i wish my n800 May 19 04:48:37 Ha May 19 04:48:39 hi johnx May 19 04:48:40 Hi, johnx. May 19 04:48:48 hi all May 19 04:48:55 N900 can insert a simcard? May 19 04:49:08 can i has n900 ? May 19 04:49:20 http://mivadika.com/forum/communications/1562-10-things-about-nokia-s-iphone.html May 19 04:49:28 Italodance, nobody but Nokia knows a damn thing about the N900. May 19 04:49:31 That's a fake article. May 19 04:49:36 It's not based on any really information May 19 04:49:41 It's what the stupid author wants. May 19 04:49:43 'real' May 19 04:49:45 READ: For sure it will offer Quad-band GSM at 850/900/1800/1900Mhz and the European 2100Mhz for 3G HSDPA, however we hope for support of all 3G and GSM bands in a single device, more specifically we hope for support of Quad-Band GSM along with Quad-Band 3G HSDPA offering support for 850/1700/1900/2100Mhz. (2100Mhz is for Europe and most of the world, 850/1900Mhz is AT&T's bands in the USA and 1700Mhz is the upcoming 3G band for T-Mobile USA) May 19 04:49:45 The phone will also offer Wi-Fi (probably 802.11b/g) Bluetooth and GPS. May 19 04:49:45 For the WiMax we beleive is too soon but if they offer it is great addition and more than welcome! May 19 04:49:57 It's fake. May 19 04:50:03 oh May 19 04:50:29 i would be scared how much battery such a n8x0 would take May 19 04:50:29 :P May 19 04:56:24 ummm http://www.infosyncworld.com/reviews/internet-tablets/samsung-q1-ultra/ May 19 04:57:17 that's been out for a long time May 19 04:57:44 johnx when? May 19 04:57:58 Hrm, how do I make a bugzilla search for showing all bugs with new comments from the last 2 days? The "Bug Changes" field doesn't seem to have a Comments item. May 19 04:58:59 Italodance, May 2007 May 19 05:05:40 kaboom! May 19 05:06:22 You cleaning your toilet, Navi? May 19 05:06:29 No May 19 05:09:36 Yes you are. May 19 05:09:37 Don't lie. May 19 05:17:43 GeneralAntilles: do you really need commentS? May 19 05:17:52 Of course. May 19 05:17:57 I want to read bugzilla like a forum. :P May 19 05:17:58 if you select nothing you'll get all bugs changed in the last 2 days May 19 05:18:07 Ah, really? Cool. May 19 05:18:33 don't forget to stick the '2' in the other field of course... May 19 05:19:10 Beautiful May 19 05:19:10 Thanks May 19 05:19:49 btw, have you ever clicked the help link? May 19 05:20:30 On the front page? May 19 05:20:44 This? https://bugs.maemo.org/page.cgi?id=quicksearch.html May 19 05:23:47 https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?help=1 May 19 05:24:15 not sure where the help link is, but i trust it's somewhere... May 19 05:24:47 The "Give me some help (reloads page.)" at the top here: https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi May 19 05:27:11 yeah... May 19 05:27:24 that requires js which i typically disable :) May 19 05:27:37 hmm May 19 05:27:42 stupid May 19 05:27:46 overcomplication May 19 05:27:46 Somebody ought to get rid of that period. . . . May 19 05:28:07 hrm, it is misplaced, oh well May 19 05:28:20 somebody should learn about target=_blank May 19 05:28:30 and drop js May 19 05:32:15 targets don't conform to xhtml 1.1 strict and later May 19 05:32:55 broken js is worse than nonconformance to xhtml strict May 19 05:33:55 broken anything is bad May 19 05:34:25 KotCzarny: where would you use _blank? May 19 05:34:47 within the tag May 19 05:34:55 whose a tag, and why? May 19 05:35:21 darn, my connection is dying May 19 05:35:41 good May 19 05:35:53 timely, http://www.htmlcodetutorial.com/linking/_A_TARGET_95y98y108y97y110y107y.html May 19 05:36:03 Navi: i know html May 19 05:36:11 No you don't May 19 05:36:12 i just don't understand who wants to actually use that feature May 19 05:36:25 Yeah, that link shows you :P May 19 05:36:34 timely: why is there js for a help link used? May 19 05:36:49 ? May 19 05:36:57 You don't know html, you only do work on a layout engine, after all May 19 05:37:11 the help version requires data that isn't sent w/ the normal version of the page May 19 05:37:33 it could be rewritten to dynamically retrieve all that data, but it'd be moderately painful May 19 05:37:37 Meh, it's better you don't know how to use target="_blank" anyways :P May 19 05:37:43 where is that help link anyway? May 19 05:37:43 :) May 19 05:38:01 https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?format=advanced May 19 05:38:09 near the top (if you have js enabled) i guess May 19 05:38:12 on the page May 19 05:38:23 use find? May 19 05:38:25 i have js enabled, but i don't see anything May 19 05:38:32 Oh May 19 05:38:41 I didn't read your sentence correctly May 19 05:38:48 (that looks like a help button) May 19 05:39:07 Morons love target="_blank" May 19 05:39:21 It's easier than setting up something proper May 19 05:39:45 target is pretty useless May 19 05:40:00 (as most frames are) May 19 05:40:22 * timely shrugs May 19 05:40:37 ok, at what page i should look for that help link? May 19 05:40:38 :) May 19 05:41:44 ok, found it May 19 05:42:18 sxpert, every beginning html writer knows that frames are awesome May 19 05:42:26 hahaha May 19 05:43:09 ok, now what is the use of: May 19 05:43:10