**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 20 02:59:56 2008
May 20 03:09:53 <NullM0dem> rm_you: hardy heron launch?
May 20 03:11:07 <beford> hey, I'm trying to install a package manually from terminal on n810
May 20 03:11:16 <beford> its asking me for a password, what should I use?
May 20 03:12:25 <beford> i'm actually running 'sudo dpkg --install xx.deb'
May 20 03:12:41 <Navi> install easyroot/becomeroot
May 20 03:14:46 <KotCzarny> http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/bootmenu/bootmenu-kc-colors.jpg
May 20 03:14:52 <KotCzarny> behold!
May 20 03:14:53 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 03:32:31 <KotCzarny> ahm, sorry, wrong link
May 20 03:32:37 <KotCzarny> http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/bootmenu/bootmenu-kc-colors.jpg
May 20 03:32:37 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 03:36:14 <timely> AStorm / KotCzarny: fwiw, diablo 4.1 pre is vulnerable to the openssl thing :)
May 20 03:36:32 * KotCzarny is still on 4.0
May 20 03:36:32 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 03:39:56 <Navi> eh
May 20 03:40:47 <timely> just in case people ask
May 20 03:40:58 <KotCzarny> timely: btw. have you tested it?
May 20 03:40:58 <timely> although from what i understand that's just openssl
May 20 03:41:10 <timely> KotCzarny: no, i filed a blocker bug against the system
May 20 03:41:14 <timely> i had the sources
May 20 03:41:17 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 03:41:31 <timely> i'm not actually sure what it means for maemo though
May 20 03:41:36 * KotCzarny is hacking linuxrc
May 20 03:41:42 <timely> afaict the openssh package links against 097
May 20 03:41:58 <timely> which means it shouldn't be any more vulnerable than any other normal ssh package
May 20 03:42:08 <timely> and gecko uses nss for crypto
May 20 03:42:33 <timely> it probably means that anyone stupid enough to install a debian openssh package onto the maemo 4.1 leaked system would be in trouble
May 20 03:42:46 <KotCzarny> i think main impact is on keys generated with broken openssl
May 20 03:42:54 <timely> actually...
May 20 03:42:57 <timely> don't think that :)
May 20 03:43:05 <timely> or don't think it the way you think you should think it
May 20 03:43:10 <timely> what is a key?
May 20 03:43:19 <timely> a certificate used for web servers is a key
May 20 03:43:33 <timely> a one time key for a crypto channel is still a key
May 20 03:43:34 <KotCzarny> from what i have read keys generated on broken debian and used somewhere else are vulnearable
May 20 03:43:44 <timely> correct
May 20 03:43:54 <Navi> johnx, I hate you
May 20 03:44:01 <timely> basically there are 3 or 4 major things that are vulnerable
May 20 03:44:05 <KotCzarny> same goes with keys generated and used after upgrading openssl
May 20 03:44:08 <timely> web server certificates are among them
May 20 03:44:31 <timely> so are session keys, which probably includes someone logging session traffic
May 20 03:44:47 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 03:44:56 <timely> however, in maemo 4.1 pre, i don't know of anything specifically vulnerable that would actually matter
May 20 03:45:01 <KotCzarny> i wonder if it was a sabotage
May 20 03:45:13 <timely> because the https session keys are managed by nss not openssl
May 20 03:45:28 <timely> and the ssh session keys would be managed by openssl097
May 20 03:46:02 <timely> (supposedly, i never actually checked that detail, but someone made that claim)
May 20 03:46:15 <timely> i only know of two components that actually used 098
May 20 03:46:35 <timely> one is for parsing afaiu, so it shouldn't matter
May 20 03:46:47 <timely> and the other is for a wire protocol which you can't use w/o new hardware
May 20 03:49:53 <benuski> does anyone know how to reinstall the navicore software on the n810? i've messed it up something awful
May 20 03:50:39 <GeneralAntilles> Purge the settings from mmc2
May 20 03:50:50 <GeneralAntilles>  /media/mmc2/map/
May 20 03:50:57 <GeneralAntilles> or /media/mmc2/maps/
May 20 03:51:00 <GeneralAntilles> Or something similar
May 20 03:59:29 <benuski> that worked great
May 20 03:59:29 <benuski> thanks!
May 20 04:43:48 <lsobral_> hi guys, the new release of canola, beta9, is available!
May 20 04:43:55 <lsobral_> check it out: http://openbossa.indt.org/canola/news.html
May 20 04:46:18 <Navi> Sweet.
May 20 04:50:34 <GeneralAntilles> Application manager really needs to use something other than the error-sound for a successful install.
May 20 04:50:51 <KotCzarny> post a bug
May 20 04:51:21 * KotCzarny is having fun with n800+fbconsole+btkb
May 20 05:32:21 <lopz> night
May 20 05:32:39 <Navi> night
May 20 05:32:44 <KotCzarny> night
May 20 05:50:18 <KotCzarny> qwerty, have you seen my new bootmenu?
May 20 05:50:19 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 05:50:31 <qwerty12> KotCzarny, no, just came down :)
May 20 05:50:40 <KotCzarny> http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/bootmenu/bootmenu-kc-colors.jpg
May 20 05:50:41 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 05:51:00 <qwerty12> Ooh, very nice :)
May 20 05:51:05 <KotCzarny> indeed :)
May 20 05:51:16 <qwerty12> I did a black one once, looked odd :D
May 20 05:51:34 <KotCzarny> wanna know what to change?
May 20 05:51:35 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 05:52:18 <qwerty12> Alright then please, I need to make another diablo initfs anyway :)
May 20 05:53:11 <KotCzarny> .conf and .sh files are in the same dir :)
May 20 05:53:21 <qwerty12> Ok, thanks :)
May 20 05:53:31 <KotCzarny> though you are interested in .sh one
May 20 05:53:32 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 05:53:59 <KotCzarny> i have made some other changes too
May 20 05:54:03 <qwerty12> Yep, I see it, thanks :)
May 20 05:54:10 <qwerty12> Have you done the FB mod?
May 20 05:54:18 <KotCzarny> not finished yet
May 20 05:54:18 <qwerty12> I need to reapply that one.
May 20 05:54:27 <KotCzarny> though most pieces are there
May 20 05:54:28 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 05:54:55 <KotCzarny> ie. i need to make /etc/rc2.d detect that we need fbconsole and not x
May 20 05:55:15 <qwerty12> You can also change the colour of the "press menu button" and "boot from mmc failed, using flash" etc by changing linux rc
May 20 05:55:17 <qwerty12> Ah cool :)
May 20 05:55:24 <qwerty12> *linuxrc
May 20 05:55:26 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 05:55:31 <KotCzarny> yes, i did that
May 20 05:55:41 <KotCzarny> files in fs/* are replacing the original ones
May 20 05:55:42 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 05:56:05 <qwerty12> Cool :). I wish Nokia used Black instead of white. Hurts my eyes in the night heh.
May 20 05:56:13 <KotCzarny> yeah
May 20 05:56:18 <KotCzarny> i made it grey
May 20 05:56:26 <KotCzarny> to differentiate from fanoush initfs
May 20 05:57:14 * qwerty12 wants someone to make tool to extract NOLO's pictures and repack with new ones :p
May 20 05:57:25 <KotCzarny> heh
May 20 05:57:38 <KotCzarny> nolo is a little fragile without serial cable
May 20 05:57:38 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 05:58:10 <qwerty12> I've got a usb to serial converter from my sony ericsson days, I could try and make a plug for that :)
May 20 05:58:31 <KotCzarny> i don't know if usb is available that early
May 20 05:58:31 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 05:58:48 <qwerty12> I mean for my computer :)
May 20 06:12:42 <KotCzarny> For the moment, rotation isn't possible in the UI (lots of hardcoded
May 20 06:12:42 <KotCzarny> 800x480s abound), so it's not been a high priority on my list, but it is
May 20 06:12:42 <KotCzarny> certainly on it, and I'll hopefully be adding the support at some stage.
May 20 06:12:51 <KotCzarny> that's from:  Jan 16, 2007, 10:57 AM
May 20 06:15:57 <AStorm> timely: well, given weak OpenSSL on both sides, the system is vulnerable to online attack
May 20 06:16:12 <AStorm> given weak OpenSSL on one side, to a MITM attack
May 20 06:16:24 <AStorm> (of course, only if keys are weak)
May 20 06:16:42 <KotCzarny> astorm: have you seen my bootmenu?
May 20 06:16:43 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:16:52 <AStorm> no, I haven't
May 20 06:17:01 <KotCzarny> no more black-on-white
May 20 06:17:03 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:17:09 <AStorm> blah blah
May 20 06:17:17 <KotCzarny> maybe blah for you
May 20 06:17:20 <AStorm> how did you disable that horrible Nokia screen?
May 20 06:17:21 <KotCzarny> but it hort my eyes
May 20 06:17:31 <KotCzarny> just edited linuxrc
May 20 06:17:31 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:17:42 <AStorm> and set diff colors? heheh
May 20 06:17:47 <KotCzarny> yes
May 20 06:17:48 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:17:52 <AStorm> weak
May 20 06:17:56 <KotCzarny> but working
May 20 06:18:00 <AStorm> tell me when you replace Nokia logo
May 20 06:18:03 <KotCzarny> and the effect is what counts
May 20 06:18:13 <KotCzarny> astorm, which one?
May 20 06:18:21 <AStorm> both
May 20 06:18:21 <KotCzarny> because it's set few times during boot
May 20 06:18:27 <AStorm> no, twice
May 20 06:18:32 <KotCzarny> and only the one from nolo isn't replaceable atm
May 20 06:18:37 * qwerty12 wants to get rid of the nolo one
May 20 06:18:41 <AStorm> is, if you get a replacement nolo
May 20 06:18:42 <KotCzarny> the rest you can simply comment out
May 20 06:18:48 <qwerty12> logo-nokia don't mean shit. I've already deleted it.
May 20 06:18:58 <AStorm> ~lart Nokia and its closed stuff
May 20 06:18:59 * infobot cats /dev/urandom into Nokia and its closed stuff's ear
May 20 06:19:17 <KotCzarny> i wonder how much nolo does
May 20 06:19:31 <AStorm> it is a Fiasco kernel image
May 20 06:19:41 <KotCzarny> hmm?
May 20 06:19:58 <AStorm> yes, you heard right
May 20 06:20:04 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, you tried mounting NOLO on your computer yet?
May 20 06:20:13 <AStorm> Nokia is hiding here a RTOS
May 20 06:20:16 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, NOLO isn't jffs2
May 20 06:20:23 <AStorm> yes, it isn't
May 20 06:20:25 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, nevermind.
May 20 06:20:29 <KotCzarny> hehe
May 20 06:20:43 <KotCzarny> yeah, it's like trying to mount command.com
May 20 06:20:44 <KotCzarny> :>
May 20 06:20:52 <KotCzarny> well
May 20 06:20:54 <qwerty12> Best I ever saw was the probably incorrect info on the 0xFFFF site.
May 20 06:20:55 <KotCzarny> more like mbr
May 20 06:20:56 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:21:14 <AStorm> KotCzarny: yes, but it's a proggie for Fiasco
May 20 06:21:25 <KotCzarny> i know
May 20 06:21:46 <AStorm> ~lart Nokia for not using Fiasco to full extent
May 20 06:21:47 * infobot strangles Nokia with a 9-pole serial cable for not using Fiasco to full extent
May 20 06:22:03 <AStorm> that would be great, really
May 20 06:22:11 <AStorm> first real consumer use of RTOS
May 20 06:22:25 <AStorm> and there's L4Linux already
May 20 06:23:57 <AStorm> infobot: have a cookie
May 20 06:23:58 <infobot> Ta.  *Munch*
May 20 06:24:24 <KotCzarny> then all we need is someone with jtag cable who tries few loaders
May 20 06:24:25 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:25:07 <AStorm> jtag? I couldn't see any port...
May 20 06:25:45 <AStorm> why do you need a jtag cable, when there's a cold flasher in rom?
May 20 06:25:55 <qwerty12> The port's above the battery.
May 20 06:26:10 <AStorm> qwerty12: really? I only saw serial there...
May 20 06:26:27 <qwerty12> That is the jtag
May 20 06:26:35 <AStorm> no, sorry
May 20 06:26:40 <AStorm> that's the serial port
May 20 06:26:52 <qwerty12> You can plug jtag into there iirc
May 20 06:27:04 <AStorm> mhm, serial-based, plausible
May 20 06:27:22 <AStorm> but I also couldn't see any chip governing it
May 20 06:27:33 <AStorm> (unless it's built into one of the TI chips)
May 20 06:27:52 <qwerty12> It's meant for cold flashing so I guess it would be somewhere low level.
May 20 06:28:37 <AStorm> maybe you can just send the flasher over it
May 20 06:29:13 <KotCzarny> i wonder if anyone did a nolo reflash
May 20 06:29:13 <GeneralAntilles> JTAG is how the factory recovers from NOLO brickings.
May 20 06:29:29 <AStorm> q: where is it?
May 20 06:29:41 <AStorm> it probably won't be the serial port
May 20 06:29:45 * qwerty12 wonders if nokia also use phoenix for other things.
May 20 06:29:47 <AStorm> although it is possible
May 20 06:29:57 <AStorm> qwerty12: like, unit testing? definitely
May 20 06:29:59 <GeneralAntilles> It's next to the battery in the N800.
May 20 06:30:06 <KotCzarny> http://mamona.mmapps.net/n800_serial/pics/
May 20 06:30:07 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:30:09 <KotCzarny> here it is
May 20 06:30:09 <AStorm> GeneralAntilles: where in N810 then?
May 20 06:30:17 <GeneralAntilles> Somewhere else.
May 20 06:30:32 <AStorm> if it is also the serial port... it means the controller is in TI chip
May 20 06:30:37 <AStorm> possible
May 20 06:30:41 <GeneralAntilles> It is.
May 20 06:31:20 * qwerty12 wants someone to crack latest phoenix so I can connect my N800 up. I've already downloaded the files that correspond to the N800.
May 20 06:31:43 <AStorm> qwerty12: what is that phoenix?
May 20 06:31:49 <KotCzarny> phone flasher
May 20 06:31:49 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 20 06:31:56 <AStorm> blah
May 20 06:32:04 <qwerty12> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17665
May 20 06:32:22 <qwerty12> N800 is based off BB5 so Phoenix supports it.
May 20 06:32:32 <AStorm> ok, if they got Fiasco to run, they must've built it for ARM... expected that to work, yes
May 20 06:33:38 <KotCzarny> qwerty: look at the pics i have pasted, maybe you can create your own dongle :>
May 20 06:33:56 <qwerty12> Hehe, my hardware skills are **** :p
May 20 06:33:56 <KotCzarny> i mean, cable
May 20 06:33:57 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:33:57 <AStorm> as I said, they should've written the drivers for Fiasco
May 20 06:34:06 <AStorm> and used slightly patched L4Linux
May 20 06:34:27 <AStorm> would actually be more stable :>
May 20 06:34:38 <AStorm> (e.g. broken camera driver wouldn't hang the device)
May 20 06:34:45 <qwerty12>  may ask my friend, who's dad works in a phone shop to steal me a dongle :p. It would be useful anyway for the
May 20 06:34:53 <qwerty12> next bb5 phone I plan on getting.
May 20 06:34:59 <qwerty12> Sorry, enter button slipped.
May 20 06:35:13 <GeneralAntilles> WTF are you on about, AStorm?
May 20 06:35:24 <GeneralAntilles> FIASCO is just the firmware image
May 20 06:35:33 <AStorm> GeneralAntilles: no, it's a full scale RTOS kernel
May 20 06:35:36 <AStorm> :>
May 20 06:35:58 <AStorm> http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/fiasco/ - this one, I suspect
May 20 06:36:42 <qwerty12> http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/?p=docu&q=fiasco
May 20 06:36:47 <AStorm> (site is old, devel is alive)
May 20 06:37:50 <AStorm> blah format is quick and easy it seems
May 20 06:37:58 <AStorm> we need to look what's in omap-nand
May 20 06:38:10 <AStorm> because that is the true kernel
May 20 06:38:20 <AStorm> (which then passes control to Linux)
May 20 06:42:24 <qwerty12> All qwerty wants to know is that which one of these contain the images: 2nd.bin-RX-34:1301,1302,1501,1502,1503,1504,1601,1602, xloader.bin-RX-34:1301,1302,1501,1502,1503,1504,1601,1602, secondary.bin-RX-34:1301,1302,1501,1502,1503,1504,1601,1602
May 20 06:42:50 <KotCzarny> probably all of them
May 20 06:42:50 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:42:57 * qwerty12 is also glad I can delete the stupid hands pictures. me laughs at my friend with N95...
May 20 06:43:19 <KotCzarny> qwerty, hands are replaceable on rootfs
May 20 06:43:25 <KotCzarny> you don't even have to reflash anything
May 20 06:43:26 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:43:30 <qwerty12> KotCzarny, I don't think so. different sizes. for the images.
May 20 06:43:42 <qwerty12> KotCzarny, I know :). I'm glad that you can delete them.
May 20 06:43:46 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:43:48 <KotCzarny> well
May 20 06:43:51 <KotCzarny> i replaced them
May 20 06:43:54 <KotCzarny> with my own pic
May 20 06:43:55 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:44:56 <qwerty12> My guess is that secondary.bin-RX-34:1301,1302,1501,1502,1503,1504,1601,1602 holds the images. I wouldn't consider images to be a massivly important/required part and its got the biggest size.
May 20 06:45:47 <GeneralAntilles> You should change some random bits, flash it and find out. :P
May 20 06:46:03 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, Maybe another day when I feel in a killing mood ;P
May 20 06:47:00 <KotCzarny> yeah, flash your n95 with n800 image
May 20 06:47:01 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:48:36 <KotCzarny> qwerty: anything interesting diablo wise?
May 20 06:48:44 <qwerty12> rd flags make me laugh. Quite a bit of the stuff enabled with them are done by the initfs and init scripts. They run cal-tool to see if a flag has been enabled.
May 20 06:48:50 <qwerty12> KotCzarny, I've only got diablo initfs.
May 20 06:48:55 <qwerty12> NOLO wasn't touched.
May 20 06:51:03 * qwerty12 thinks linux hex editors suck. I'm probably gonna run winhex from wine.
May 20 06:51:31 <trickie_> http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/pipermail/l4-hackers/2006/002036.html
May 20 06:51:34 <trickie_> interesting
May 20 06:51:36 <qwerty12> Also any arm asm experts here? Try running the bootloaders through IDA or summat like that.
May 20 06:52:07 <KotCzarny> qwerty: use mc, it has hex editor
May 20 06:52:08 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 06:52:53 <qwerty12> Ok, thanks. But now, the homework that is expected to take 1hr to complete must be done in 20 mins >.< and be given in today.
May 20 06:52:55 <qwerty12> Bye.
May 20 07:00:49 <KotCzarny> trickie_: indeed, interesting
May 20 07:17:39 <KotCzarny> heh
May 20 07:17:40 <KotCzarny> fun
May 20 07:17:50 <KotCzarny> someone should try: apt-get remove gcc-3.4-base
May 20 07:17:55 <KotCzarny> it cries so hard :>
May 20 07:18:20 <KotCzarny> To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!'
May 20 07:18:21 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 20 07:18:28 <summatusmentis> for real?
May 20 07:18:58 <KotCzarny> ok, stupid question, how to install gcc?
May 20 07:18:58 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 07:19:35 <KotCzarny> hint: apt-get install gcc doesn't work
May 20 07:19:36 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 07:20:10 <summatusmentis> you may need to specify the correct name
May 20 07:20:16 <summatusmentis> apt-get install gcc-3.4-base
May 20 07:20:19 <summatusmentis> etc. etc.
May 20 07:20:25 <KotCzarny> i have it installed
May 20 07:20:32 <KotCzarny> but i don't see gcc
May 20 07:20:43 <summatusmentis> what?
May 20 07:21:19 <summatusmentis> like... you can't run it?
May 20 07:21:30 <KotCzarny> -sh: gcc: not found
May 20 07:21:46 <KotCzarny> apt-get install gcc-3.4-base
May 20 07:21:48 <KotCzarny> gcc-3.4-base is already the newest version.
May 20 07:22:01 <kulve> dpkg -L gcc-3.4-base
May 20 07:22:15 <KotCzarny> only docs
May 20 07:22:16 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 07:22:27 <summatusmentis> KotCzarny: maybe a symlink?
May 20 07:22:45 <KotCzarny> ls: /usr/bin/gcc*: No such file or directory
May 20 07:22:51 <summatusmentis> uh oh
May 20 07:23:05 <summatusmentis> I don't remember... is there a force option?
May 20 07:23:15 <KotCzarny> probably gcc lives in another package
May 20 07:23:18 <summatusmentis> or apt-get install --reinstall gcc-3.4-base
May 20 07:23:19 <lcdd> how about gcc-3.4
May 20 07:23:43 <KotCzarny> Package gcc-3.4 is not available
May 20 07:24:50 <summatusmentis> try install --reinstall
May 20 07:24:58 <summatusmentis> debian has it, I'm not sure about maemo
May 20 07:25:45 <trickie_> KotCzarny: is there a build-essential package?
May 20 07:25:57 <kulve> maemo probably doesn't have gcc as there's little use for it
May 20 07:27:05 <KotCzarny> i remember i have installed it one day
May 20 07:27:14 <KotCzarny> just don't remember which repo had it
May 20 07:27:41 <KotCzarny> and yes, gronmayer is down still
May 20 07:30:41 <KotCzarny> Reinstallation of gcc-3.4-base is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.
May 20 07:30:43 <KotCzarny> hmm
May 20 07:34:34 <KotCzarny> it looks like it's living in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/g/gcc-3.4/
May 20 07:35:10 <KotCzarny> Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0.1/free/g/gcc-3.4/gcc-3.4-base_3.4.4cs2005q3.2-5.osso8_armel.deb  401 Unauthorized [IP: 69.22.179.82 80]
May 20 07:35:16 <KotCzarny> D'OH.
May 20 07:35:39 <KotCzarny> it's not mine ip
May 20 07:35:50 <KotCzarny> o.o
May 20 07:36:34 <KotCzarny> but wait
May 20 07:36:41 <jdiaz> help!
May 20 07:37:04 <kulve> KotCzarny: 401 here too..
May 20 07:37:11 <jdiaz> I modified sudoers file, I put there something wrong... and now I can't sudo
May 20 07:37:14 <KotCzarny> kulve, wtf
May 20 07:37:21 <jdiaz> so i can't gain root access
May 20 07:37:22 <KotCzarny> they went crazy
May 20 07:37:32 <jdiaz> and cannot undo the sudoers changes
May 20 07:37:33 <kulve> jdiaz: login as root through ssh and fix it
May 20 07:37:47 <jdiaz> yep, that is the first I tought
May 20 07:37:54 <KotCzarny> kulve, good thing i have mirrored whole repository.maemo.org
May 20 07:37:55 <jdiaz> however, I can't either, I do not why...
May 20 07:38:04 <jdiaz> perhaps I forgot the root password
May 20 07:38:15 <jdiaz> perhaps I disabled the root pasword and forgot about it
May 20 07:38:43 <jdiaz> I used "easyroot" for so long, that I forgot the ssh way
May 20 07:38:49 <KotCzarny> kulve, i see, akamai sees me as unauthorized ip
May 20 07:39:00 <KotCzarny> i can get the package from repostory.maemo.org
May 20 07:39:07 <KotCzarny> wtf.
May 20 07:39:13 <kulve> jdiaz: then you need to install the initfs and use the "emergency ssh access" to login to initfs and mount the rootfs by hand and fix things
May 20 07:39:35 <jdiaz> kulve, thanks... there is a hope then
May 20 07:39:44 <kulve> jdiaz: there could be easier way too, but can't think of any right now
May 20 07:39:50 <trickie_> jdiaz: or maybe reinstalling openssh lets reset the password?
May 20 07:39:58 <trickie_> i think i have done that before
May 20 07:40:02 <jdiaz> hmm...
May 20 07:40:06 <trickie_> maybe have to remove it first
May 20 07:40:23 <kulve> that would be easier, if it works :)
May 20 07:40:28 <trickie_> when i installed openssh the package configuration let me set the root pass
May 20 07:40:28 <jdiaz> trickie_, I don't think so, /etc/passwd is not related to ssh, but you gave me an idea
May 20 07:40:35 <trickie_> no
May 20 07:40:36 <KotCzarny> lol
May 20 07:40:42 <kulve> yeah, install a package that sets the root passwd
May 20 07:40:48 <trickie_> but the installer has a prompt to set the password
May 20 07:40:48 <KotCzarny> i'm getting 401 on catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com too
May 20 07:40:54 <KotCzarny> akamai is b0rken.
May 20 07:41:07 <KotCzarny> (or my dns)
May 20 07:41:19 <kulve> and mine?
May 20 07:41:29 <KotCzarny> can you check what ip gets you repository.maemo.org ?
May 20 07:41:47 <KotCzarny> 69.22.179.90, 69.22.179.82 for me
May 20 07:42:12 <kulve> tkulve@sd056:~$ host repository.maemo.org
May 20 07:42:12 <kulve> repository.maemo.org is an alias for repository.maemo.org.edgesuite.net.
May 20 07:42:12 <kulve> repository.maemo.org.edgesuite.net is an alias for a515.g.akamai.net.
May 20 07:42:12 <kulve> a515.g.akamai.net has address 195.215.37.63
May 20 07:42:12 <kulve> a515.g.akamai.net has address 195.215.37.56
May 20 07:42:19 <jdiaz> uh oh...
May 20 07:42:25 <jdiaz> I can't install anything!
May 20 07:42:35 <jdiaz> apparently the application manager also uses sudo, which is broken
May 20 07:42:50 <KotCzarny> wtf.. now repostory is 401 for me too
May 20 07:43:32 <kulve> jdiaz: yeah, it seems to use sudo too
May 20 07:44:10 <kulve>  wc -l /etc/sudoers
May 20 07:44:10 <kulve>        52 /etc/sudoers
May 20 07:44:51 * jdiaz is getting nervous
May 20 07:45:05 <trickie_> jdiaz: it seems the only way to fix it without flashing rootfs again is to install the intifs from http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/
May 20 07:45:29 <jdiaz> but how can I install it when broken sudoers?
May 20 07:45:36 <KotCzarny> from windows
May 20 07:45:37 <kulve> you need to flash it
May 20 07:45:40 <trickie_> you can flash it
May 20 07:45:41 <KotCzarny> or another linux box
May 20 07:45:42 <kulve> it flasher tool
May 20 07:45:59 <KotCzarny> darn. i can't install anything on my n800
May 20 07:45:59 <kulve> trickie_: you can also boot from mmc and fix the rootfs from there
May 20 07:46:07 <KotCzarny> everything goes 401
May 20 07:46:11 <kulve> s,trickie_,jdiaz,
May 20 07:46:27 <trickie_> kulve: yes assuming he has set up a mmc to boot to
May 20 07:46:59 <jdiaz> I didn't
May 20 07:47:05 <jjo> I got 401 also using the link to the repository but when I went to the parent directory and clicked the file again I was able to download it
May 20 07:47:08 <kulve> I would guess that you could just download one from the net? And the boot system to mmc with flasher without the need to flash the new initfs
May 20 07:47:38 <trickie_> sounds like a plan :)
May 20 07:47:49 <KotCzarny> jjo, so it's one of akamai server freaking out or someone at nokia working on repositories
May 20 07:47:58 <GeneralAntilles> jdiaz, or talk somebody into giving you the jffs2 image that initfs flasher spits out.
May 20 07:47:59 <Cptnodegard> weee, my BT gps is here
May 20 07:48:00 <kulve> although I recommend using the fanoush's initfs. It's just convenient :)
May 20 07:48:03 <GeneralAntilles> and flash that with the flasher
May 20 07:48:18 <jjo> nobody at nokia should be working on the repsitories atm
May 20 07:48:30 <KotCzarny> jjo, why? it's morning there
May 20 07:48:31 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 07:48:36 <jdiaz> I never reflashed my n810 yet, so I'm a bit lost now...
May 20 07:48:41 <jdiaz> I'm reading about initfs
May 20 07:48:59 <hugolp> jdiaz:  its easy
May 20 07:48:59 <GeneralAntilles> You never flashed your N810?
May 20 07:49:04 <GeneralAntilles> So you're running on the factory firmware?
May 20 07:49:06 <jjo> KotCzarny: I hope I would know if someone was
May 20 07:49:08 <GeneralAntilles> old. . .
May 20 07:49:17 <jdiaz> GA, correct
May 20 07:49:24 <GeneralAntilles> old and very buggy. :\
May 20 07:49:35 <jdiaz> no.. i checked the version
May 20 07:49:43 <kulve> cat /etc/osso_software_version
May 20 07:49:43 <kulve> RX-34+RX-44_2008SE_2.2007.50-2_PR_MR0
May 20 07:49:51 <KotCzarny> jjo, any idea why 401?
May 20 07:49:53 <jdiaz> i have the penultimate version
May 20 07:49:55 <KotCzarny> and how to fix it?
May 20 07:51:26 <jjo> KotCzarny: no idea yet
May 20 07:51:40 <summatusmentis> dang it! I did not realize it was this late
May 20 07:51:51 <summatusmentis> I need to stop researching/obsessing over the N810, and sleep
May 20 07:52:06 <KotCzarny> jjo, the worst thing is that catalogueer repo also went 401
May 20 07:52:25 <GeneralAntilles> Just buy it so you can do that.
May 20 07:52:55 <summatusmentis> GeneralAntilles: buying it later this week, if I do. I get a $100 discount on it because of a conference I'm flying to tomorrow
May 20 07:58:37 <KotCzarny> hmm
May 20 07:58:45 <KotCzarny> great
May 20 07:58:56 <KotCzarny> major repository breakage
May 20 07:59:13 <RST38h> KILL KILL
May 20 07:59:23 <KotCzarny> rst, can you try refreshing repo list?
May 20 07:59:28 <KotCzarny> if you get 401 too?
May 20 07:59:36 <RST38h> Left N810 at home
May 20 07:59:41 <KotCzarny> hrm
May 20 07:59:59 <RST38h> Too warm outside, could not take a jacket with me =)
May 20 08:01:50 <KotCzarny> i hate akamai.
May 20 08:03:20 <KotCzarny> good thing i have a mirror.
May 20 08:03:53 <kulve> I guess akamai usually works quite well even under very heavy load?
May 20 08:04:12 <KotCzarny> kulve, it's not the problem with load but config
May 20 08:04:21 <KotCzarny> or maybe with repos themselves
May 20 08:04:33 <KotCzarny> ok, how to reinstall a package with dpkg?
May 20 08:04:45 <KotCzarny> or with apt using local file
May 20 08:04:51 <RST38h> dpkg -i
May 20 08:04:55 <RST38h> no?
May 20 08:04:59 <kulve> I guess yes
May 20 08:05:15 <legind> im trying to use insmod to insert modules with specific module options.. why wouldn't this work: insmod usbserial.ko vendor=0x1410 product=0x4100
May 20 08:05:24 <kulve> iirc, dpkg doesn't mind if the package is installed already
May 20 08:05:42 <RST38h> http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1916854720080519
May 20 08:06:15 <RST38h> hehe
May 20 08:06:38 <KotCzarny> black indian?
May 20 08:06:47 <RST38h> believe it or not
May 20 08:07:00 <RST38h> I guess McCain will be known as "White Eagle"...
May 20 08:07:05 <KotCzarny> lol
May 20 08:09:37 <KotCzarny> gcc version 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2)
May 20 08:09:38 <KotCzarny> hah.
May 20 08:09:41 <KotCzarny> installed
May 20 08:09:52 <KotCzarny> by it didn't created a symlink
May 20 08:10:19 <legind> anyone have experience with os2008 kernel modules
May 20 08:18:17 <jdiaz> argh! this is frustrating... I remembered the root password, and I can check it remembered it correctly, because I did crypt() on my guess and compared the output with the one stored in /etc/passwd, and they match
May 20 08:18:34 <jdiaz> but I can't still login via ssh, because the password is disabled (it has a ! in fromt)
May 20 08:19:06 <jdiaz> if I only could delete that "!"... but of course this needs root privileges
May 20 08:19:12 <jdiaz> I guess I have to reflash...
May 20 08:19:37 <GeneralAntilles> jdiaz, get a copy of fanoush's initfs
May 20 08:19:55 <jdiaz> GA, but I can't install it without root privileges, can I?
May 20 08:20:05 <GeneralAntilles> You can get the jffs2 it outputs from somebody and flash that with flasher.
May 20 08:20:27 <jdiaz> Excuse my ignorance... what would do that flash?
May 20 08:20:34 <jdiaz> Would it replace only the boot sector?
May 20 08:20:35 <GeneralAntilles> flasher-3.0
May 20 08:20:41 <GeneralAntilles> You can just flash the initfs
May 20 08:20:50 <GeneralAntilles> Then that gives you initfs with usb net and ssh/telnet
May 20 08:21:24 <jdiaz> but I can't login via ssh...
May 20 08:21:41 <GeneralAntilles> The initfs dropbear server is separate from the rootfs openssh server.
May 20 08:21:46 <jdiaz> ah, ok
May 20 08:22:02 <jdiaz> and it has a default well-known root password, I assume
May 20 08:22:19 <GeneralAntilles> lol
May 20 08:22:31 <GeneralAntilles> It's purpose is for recovering after situations like this. :P
May 20 08:22:47 <jdiaz> empty root passwd, then?
May 20 08:22:54 <GeneralAntilles> rootme
May 20 08:23:00 <jdiaz> ok
May 20 08:23:02 <GeneralAntilles> Download the flasher and read the readme for now.
May 20 08:23:06 <GeneralAntilles> http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/
May 20 08:23:11 <jdiaz> thanks
May 20 08:23:19 <jdiaz> I'll come back soon, I'm afraid :)
May 20 08:27:39 <Italodance> http://www.megamobilecontent.com/Nokia-N800-wallpapers.html
May 20 08:27:43 <Italodance> nice source
May 20 08:28:16 <GeneralAntilles> http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper/index.php?sort=date&aspect=mobile_devices&w=800&h=480
May 20 08:28:53 <GeneralAntilles> I'm still waiting for the command-line method for changing the desktop. . . .
May 20 08:28:59 <GeneralAntilles> I'd like to cycle it every night.
May 20 08:29:10 <Italodance> ummm good idea
May 20 08:31:27 <Jaffa> Morning, all
May 20 08:31:34 <KotCzarny> mourning
May 20 08:31:49 <GeneralAntilles> Howdy, Jaffa.
May 20 08:31:56 <sp3000> roar
May 20 08:32:19 <Italodance> morning
May 20 08:33:13 <GeneralAntilles> jdiaz, I've got the initfs image for you.
May 20 08:37:16 <KotCzarny> ok, is there a cvs .deb of application manager somewhere?
May 20 08:44:25 <jdiaz> GA, really?
May 20 08:44:31 <jdiaz> oh! Thank you! Thank you!
May 20 08:44:43 <jdiaz> I was writing right now to a colleague asking him help
May 20 08:45:21 <jdiaz> could you please send it to my mail box?
May 20 08:45:28 <jdiaz> jldiaz@gmail.com
May 20 08:46:23 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/initfs.bootmenu.jffs2.zip
May 20 08:47:23 <GeneralAntilles> You able to flash now, jdiaz?
May 20 08:47:23 <hrw> morning etc
May 20 08:47:28 <GeneralAntilles> Howdy, hrw.
May 20 08:47:36 <jdiaz> I don't know... I never did it before
May 20 08:47:42 <GeneralAntilles> Well, you have stuff? :P
May 20 08:47:46 <jdiaz> If I understood correctly, the initfs package contains a flasher
May 20 08:47:47 <hrw> did someone tried to flash tablet with rootfs taken from device?
May 20 08:47:48 <GeneralAntilles> Linux computer, USB cable and N810.
May 20 08:48:03 <jdiaz> it is preferable to flash from the PC than from the tablet?
May 20 08:48:10 <GeneralAntilles> You'll have to in this case.
May 20 08:48:14 <jdiaz> I have all the hardware, yes
May 20 08:48:17 <hrw> I would like to test some things on n810 but do not want to reinstall everything on maemo
May 20 08:48:21 <GeneralAntilles> OK, then you're good to go.
May 20 08:48:37 <jdiaz> oh, of course, flashing from the tablet would require root privileges...
May 20 08:48:44 <KotCzarny> hrw, mmc boot?
May 20 08:48:45 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, that's your problem. ;)
May 20 08:48:56 <GeneralAntilles> jdiaz, download the flasher-3.0 from here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php
May 20 08:49:32 <jdiaz> ok. I've read in the docs of initfs about some problems on OS2008
May 20 08:49:49 <GeneralAntilles> That's prior to 51-3
May 20 08:50:11 <trickie_> jdiaz: i have never had trouble with it on OS2008
May 20 08:50:19 <trickie_> and i have even modified it a bit
May 20 08:50:27 <GeneralAntilles> You'll know if you have problems.
May 20 08:50:38 <GeneralAntilles> It's an OMAP timing issue that'll prevent the device from starting up.
May 20 08:52:05 <jdiaz> oh
May 20 08:52:16 <jdiaz> if that happens, the solution would be to reflash the OS?
May 20 08:52:22 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
May 20 08:52:35 <GeneralAntilles> It's actually not an initfs thing, anyway
May 20 08:52:37 <GeneralAntilles> It's NOLO
May 20 08:53:39 <GeneralAntilles> Get the flasher-3.0, jdiaz?
May 20 08:54:19 <jdiaz> Well, I've downloaded your initfs, the flahser, and I'll try the whole thing
May 20 08:54:53 <GeneralAntilles> OK, step one is to get the flasher ready
May 20 08:54:57 <GeneralAntilles> chmod +x etc
May 20 08:55:02 <jdiaz> It will take me a while, because I want to read the docs and understand what I'm doing
May 20 08:55:12 <GeneralAntilles> It's very straightforward
May 20 08:55:15 <GeneralAntilles> I can explain as I go if you want.
May 20 08:55:21 <hrw> KotCzarny: prefer to jffs2 boot due to lack of minisd card
May 20 08:55:25 <jdiaz> thank you, your are very kind
May 20 08:55:42 <hrw> KotCzarny: internal n810 card filling would take too much time ;)
May 20 08:55:52 <GeneralAntilles> Just let me know when you're ready.
May 20 08:55:55 <KotCzarny> hrw: but it's simpler to do a backup/restore
May 20 08:55:56 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 08:56:29 <trickie_> hrw: i use flasher to boot a kernel with out actually flashing it
May 20 08:56:33 <jdiaz> ok, I downloaded the program flasher-3.0-static
May 20 08:56:43 <trickie_> hrw: im not sure if you could do the same for a rootfs
May 20 08:56:46 <jdiaz> and chmod +x it
May 20 08:56:49 <hrw> trickie_: you cannot
May 20 08:56:58 <jdiaz> now, I plug my n810 to the PC via usb
May 20 08:57:06 <KotCzarny> hrw, you would have to boot to usb
May 20 08:57:12 <GeneralAntilles> Make sure everything you need on the N810 is backed up first.
May 20 08:57:24 <KotCzarny> or some rsync magic
May 20 08:57:53 <jdiaz> you mean what is in the internal 256Mb flash, don't you?
May 20 08:57:59 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
May 20 08:58:02 <jdiaz> and what is accesible as user...
May 20 08:58:04 <GeneralAntilles> It wont do anything to the cards
May 20 08:58:11 <jdiaz> because I can't access as root...
May 20 08:58:15 <GeneralAntilles> and, actually, it wont be doing anything to the 256MB flash, either.
May 20 08:58:23 <GeneralAntilles> But just in case. ;)
May 20 08:58:36 <jdiaz> well, I'll backup all under /home/user
May 20 08:58:41 <GeneralAntilles> Good plan.
May 20 08:59:50 <jdiaz> I mounted /home/user to my PC via sshfs
May 20 08:59:55 <jdiaz> and I'll copy it
May 20 09:01:42 <jdiaz> (no, better I'm tar-ing it)
May 20 09:16:58 <kpanic> hi, I'm in the process to port an application to n800, specifically I have to recompile obex-data-server on maemo, I don't know pretty nothing of cross-compiling, is there an howto for maemo? thanks
May 20 09:18:14 <KotCzarny> kpanic: 3 words: vmware sdk image
May 20 09:18:34 <RST38h> Why does he need vmware?
May 20 09:18:59 <KotCzarny> because it doesn't require setting up anything?
May 20 09:19:10 <KotCzarny> download and run kind of solution
May 20 09:20:09 <RST38h> but don't you have to set up vmware?
May 20 09:20:27 <KotCzarny> i believe it's click and install too
May 20 09:21:34 <RST38h> sounds compliczted
May 20 09:21:47 <RST38h> why not install it on an existing system?
May 20 09:22:06 <KotCzarny> because he is a little lost already?
May 20 09:22:07 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 09:22:23 <RST38h> he will just get lost further...
May 20 09:23:25 * RST38h usually suggests installing sb2 in such cases
May 20 09:23:36 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 09:23:52 <kpanic> ok, I'll go the vmware route :)
May 20 09:28:26 <GeneralAntilles> jdiaz, backed up?
May 20 09:29:19 <baa> any consensus on maemo's future, given nokia's acquisition of trolltech?
May 20 09:29:43 <GeneralAntilles> There's plenty of very official feedback about that.
May 20 09:30:17 <GeneralAntilles> There's a lot of good references here, baa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet_OS#Qt
May 20 09:30:25 <Mikho> I'm trying to install Maemo 4 in scratchbox using the installation script, but after downloading a ton of packages the script spawns a number of package-not-configured-yet-errors. What gives?
May 20 09:30:29 <baa> thanks!
May 20 09:31:00 <GeneralAntilles> In summary, Qt libraries likely to ship with maemo in the winter/spring 2009
May 20 09:31:10 <GeneralAntilles> Nothing else so far
May 20 09:31:20 <GeneralAntilles> maybe same application-code sharing between S60 and maemo.
May 20 09:31:33 <jdiaz> I've just finished the backup
May 20 09:31:39 <GeneralAntilles> OK, next step
May 20 09:31:46 <jdiaz> I had problems with the wifi connection during the backup
May 20 09:31:48 <GeneralAntilles> Turn the N810 off and plug it into USB on the PC.
May 20 09:31:56 <jdiaz> turn it off?
May 20 09:31:58 <jdiaz> ok
May 20 09:32:17 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, NOLO handles the flashing so we gotta catch it during boot.
May 20 09:32:38 <GeneralAntilles> It's fairly well-charged, right?
May 20 09:32:39 <jdiaz> I didn't understand a word, but it's done
May 20 09:32:48 <jdiaz> can I connect the charger?
May 20 09:32:53 <jdiaz> just in case...
May 20 09:32:55 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, that's one way we can do it.
May 20 09:33:18 <GeneralAntilles> But for now, start the flasher with this command: ./flasher-3.0-static -n <myinitfsimage> -f -R
May 20 09:33:39 <GeneralAntilles> -n points it to the initfs image (in this case, the .jffs2 image I generated from fanoush's flasher)
May 20 09:33:44 <GeneralAntilles> -f tells it to flash that image
May 20 09:33:52 <GeneralAntilles> and -R tells it to reboot when it's done.
May 20 09:34:06 <jdiaz> initfs.bootmenu.jffs2 ?
May 20 09:34:10 <GeneralAntilles> Right
May 20 09:34:16 <GeneralAntilles> You may or may not need to do it as root.
May 20 09:34:24 <GeneralAntilles> Depends on how your machine is set up.
May 20 09:34:34 <GeneralAntilles> Hi, andre___. :)
May 20 09:35:00 <jdiaz> Suitable USB device not found, waiting
May 20 09:35:04 <GeneralAntilles> OK, good.
May 20 09:35:09 <GeneralAntilles> Now go back to the N810
May 20 09:35:15 <GeneralAntilles> First, find your charger cable.
May 20 09:35:25 <Italodance> guys i found it the volume of n800 is louder
May 20 09:35:25 <jdiaz> At hand
May 20 09:35:29 <GeneralAntilles> Then hold down the Swap key on the front of the N810
May 20 09:35:33 <GeneralAntilles> Looks like two overlapping squares
May 20 09:35:34 <Italodance> N810: 4.13-inch (800 x 480) screen, two hardware buttons, 128cc volume
May 20 09:35:41 <GeneralAntilles> Should be the topmost button on the front of the device.
May 20 09:35:45 <Italodance> N800: 4.13-inch (800 x 480) screen, three hardware buttons and D-pad, 137cc volume.
May 20 09:35:50 <jdiaz> swap? Is it what the manual call it "Home" key?
May 20 09:35:55 <GeneralAntilles> Exactly.
May 20 09:36:01 <jdiaz> below the camera, ok
May 20 09:36:10 <GeneralAntilles> Now, while holding down the Home key, plug in the charger.
May 20 09:36:13 <onion_> yay, nokia linux *phones* someday
May 20 09:36:47 <jdiaz> nokia screen with small usb icon
May 20 09:36:57 <jdiaz> USB device found found at bus 006, device address 012
May 20 09:36:57 <jdiaz> Error claiming USB interface: Operation not permitted
May 20 09:36:57 <GeneralAntilles> flasher should be doing its thing now
May 20 09:37:01 <GeneralAntilles> OK
May 20 09:37:04 <GeneralAntilles> Set the N810 down
May 20 09:37:06 <jdiaz> oops... then sudo
May 20 09:37:09 <GeneralAntilles> Right
May 20 09:37:27 <jdiaz> I have to switch off the n810 again?
May 20 09:37:31 <GeneralAntilles> Nope
May 20 09:37:34 <GeneralAntilles> It's ready and waiting
May 20 09:37:42 <GeneralAntilles> Just rerun the flasher with sudo and it'll do its thing.
May 20 09:37:49 <jdiaz> Flashing initfs... done.
May 20 09:37:55 <GeneralAntilles> Now it should restart
May 20 09:37:57 <jdiaz> booting menu in n810
May 20 09:38:02 <GeneralAntilles> You can go ahead and pull the USB cable.
May 20 09:38:42 <jdiaz> Hm...
May 20 09:38:46 <jdiaz> set date and time
May 20 09:39:01 <GeneralAntilles> The wizard is showing up?
May 20 09:39:02 <GeneralAntilles> Interesting
May 20 09:39:16 <jdiaz> booting finished, all looks normal
May 20 09:39:20 <GeneralAntilles> Good
May 20 09:39:27 <GeneralAntilles> Now, go ahead and power it back off.
May 20 09:39:42 <GeneralAntilles> Did you grab the initfs_flasher and readme?
May 20 09:39:47 <jdiaz> yes
May 20 09:40:07 <GeneralAntilles> PC setup for USBnet?
May 20 09:40:13 <jdiaz> When switching off, the system sound was choppy...
May 20 09:40:23 <jdiaz> nevermind
May 20 09:40:35 <jdiaz> no, I do not have USBnet
May 20 09:40:42 <jdiaz> I'm using ubuntu in the pc
May 20 09:40:44 <GeneralAntilles> OK, you'll have to do that first.
May 20 09:40:52 <GeneralAntilles> I'm not sure how to set it up for Linux
May 20 09:41:04 <GeneralAntilles> Looks like fanoush has links to a couple of guides in the readme file
May 20 09:41:12 <GeneralAntilles> google will probably turn up something useful, too.
May 20 09:41:15 <jdiaz> yes I'll do that
May 20 09:41:31 <GeneralAntilles> Once that's done, you just need to follow the directions in the readme
May 20 09:41:46 <GeneralAntilles> Then you can get in with ssh/telnet and fix the sudoers file.
May 20 09:42:36 <GeneralAntilles> You'll have to mount the rootfs (256MB flash) before you can work on it
May 20 09:42:48 <GeneralAntilles> He's got that covered in the readme, too.
May 20 09:46:02 <jdiaz> hum... I've configured an usb0 interface in the PC
May 20 09:46:20 <jdiaz> when I try ifup usb0, i get errors
May 20 09:46:29 <jdiaz> I assume these are due to the usb cable unplugged?
May 20 09:46:37 <GeneralAntilles> Don't have a clue. ;)
May 20 09:46:50 <jdiaz> ok, then I'll try to continue
May 20 09:47:00 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe google the errors
May 20 09:47:14 <jdiaz> I have to switch-on the tablet now, with the usb cable plugged to the PC, right?
May 20 09:47:30 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, plug in the USB cable
May 20 09:47:33 <GeneralAntilles> Turn it on
May 20 09:47:40 <GeneralAntilles> Then at the bootmenu press the Home key.
May 20 09:47:51 <GeneralAntilles> Then you can plug it in and leave it while you get the computer ready.
May 20 09:48:31 <jdiaz> oh, there was no bootmenu this time
May 20 09:48:34 <jdiaz> only the nokia logo
May 20 09:48:40 <jdiaz> and the wizard again...
May 20 09:49:02 <GeneralAntilles> No bootmenu at all?
May 20 09:49:36 <jdiaz> I think I understand...
May 20 09:49:44 <jdiaz> the real booting occurs when I plug the charger
May 20 09:49:49 <jdiaz> the charger was still plugged
May 20 09:49:53 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, right
May 20 09:49:56 <GeneralAntilles> That'd be the issue.
May 20 09:50:08 <GeneralAntilles> Gotta power it down completely
May 20 09:50:10 <jdiaz> I unplugged it
May 20 09:50:13 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
May 20 09:50:14 <jdiaz> the plugged again
May 20 09:50:18 <jdiaz> bootmenu appeared
May 20 09:50:24 <jdiaz> i hold Home key
May 20 09:50:26 <GeneralAntilles> It's actually booted most of the way for charging.
May 20 09:50:33 <jdiaz> nothing occured apparently
May 20 09:50:38 <jdiaz> the icon "Charging" is displayed
May 20 09:50:45 <GeneralAntilles> Need to start it up normally.
May 20 09:50:48 <jdiaz> Should be able to ssh now?
May 20 09:50:53 <GeneralAntilles> Unplug the charger, wait for it to turn off.
May 20 09:50:58 <GeneralAntilles> Then just start it up with the power key.
May 20 09:51:03 <jdiaz> ok
May 20 09:51:05 <GeneralAntilles> Press the Home key when the bootmenu appears.
May 20 09:51:25 <GeneralAntilles> Fun times with runlevels. :P
May 20 09:52:12 <jdiaz> how much time need I to hold the home key?
May 20 09:52:22 <GeneralAntilles> Should just need to press it, actually.
May 20 09:52:27 <jdiaz> I released when the nokia hands screen appeared
May 20 09:52:35 <GeneralAntilles> It'll say stuff about usb networking
May 20 09:52:39 <jdiaz> no
May 20 09:52:41 <jdiaz> no mention to usb
May 20 09:52:42 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, it didn't catch it then.
May 20 09:53:05 <jdiaz> the only message was something like "booting from /...."
May 20 09:53:17 <GeneralAntilles> Press it once when the bootmenu actually appears.
May 20 09:53:34 <jdiaz> the wizard asking the time appears all the times
May 20 09:53:58 <jdiaz> should the usb cable be plugged during booting?
May 20 09:54:03 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
May 20 09:54:42 <jdiaz> a message "Press and hold home key while menu,,," appears for an instant (I have no time to read it completely)
May 20 09:54:43 <GeneralAntilles> Though it probably doesn't depend on it.
May 20 09:54:49 <GeneralAntilles> Damn
May 20 09:55:00 <GeneralAntilles> The timeout on the initfs is set to zero on something. :\
May 20 09:55:17 <jdiaz> Can I have the home key pressed in advance?
May 20 09:55:26 <GeneralAntilles> Actually, yes.
May 20 09:55:29 <GeneralAntilles> (I just tried it)
May 20 09:55:36 <GeneralAntilles> Just release it as soon as you see the bootmenu come up.
May 20 09:56:09 <jdiaz> this is tricky :-)
May 20 09:56:26 <jdiaz> no luck
May 20 09:56:32 <jdiaz> the message is "Booting from flash.."
May 20 09:56:41 <jdiaz> (mtdblock4 jffs2)
May 20 09:56:49 <GeneralAntilles> OK, let me put together another initfs image with a real timeout. :\
May 20 09:56:59 <jdiaz> btw... there is no a real bootmenu
May 20 09:57:05 <jdiaz> only a message line at the top
May 20 09:57:21 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I screwed it up.
May 20 09:57:27 <GeneralAntilles> 2 minutes
May 20 09:57:30 <jdiaz> no problem
May 20 09:57:33 <blahdeblah-lap> Can anyone tell me what are the big features/fixes in RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin?
May 20 09:57:36 <jdiaz> you are being very helpful
May 20 09:57:44 <GeneralAntilles> Compared to, blahdeblah-lap?
May 20 09:57:51 <hrw> blahdeblah-lap: compared to 50.x? only bootloader
May 20 09:57:56 <blahdeblah-lap> .50-2
May 20 09:57:56 <GeneralAntilles> 50-2, just the updated NOLO (which  you'd know if you needed)
May 20 09:58:16 <blahdeblah-lap> The tableteer web site told me i needed it, so i updated.
May 20 09:58:19 <hrw> blahdeblah-lap: if your n800/n810 has problems to start after power off you want nolo from 51.3
May 20 09:58:44 <jdiaz> what kind of problems?
May 20 09:58:47 <blahdeblah-lap> I don't suppose it fixes that stupid metalayer-crawler issue where it chews all the CPU and runs down your battery in no time at all?
May 20 09:59:02 <hrw> jdiaz: if you did not noticed then do not worry
May 20 09:59:04 <jdiaz> Sometimes, I have to press several times the power button
May 20 09:59:12 <jdiaz> or hold it
May 20 09:59:14 <jdiaz> release it
May 20 09:59:17 <jdiaz> hold it again...
May 20 09:59:22 <hrw> jdiaz: in short - poweroff, 1h on charger to poweron
May 20 09:59:22 <jdiaz> until the led becomes blue
May 20 09:59:31 <jdiaz> aha, no my problem them :-)
May 20 09:59:48 <hrw> jdiaz: I cursed nokia a lot after bought n810
May 20 10:00:14 <hrw> jdiaz: especially when got informations about time which it took to nokia to test that fix
May 20 10:00:33 <GeneralAntilles> blahdeblah-lap, metalayer-crawler shouldn't give you any trouble. Either you've got a recursive symlink or a corrupted card.
May 20 10:01:03 <GeneralAntilles> jdiaz, I'm testing this one on mine first to be sure. ;)
May 20 10:01:39 <blahdeblah-lap> GeneralAntilles: Regardless, it shouldn't do that!
May 20 10:01:41 <jdiaz> can I modify from the PC the initfs image you provided me before?
May 20 10:02:02 <GeneralAntilles> If you can figure out how to mount a jffs2 loopback device. ;)
May 20 10:02:18 <GeneralAntilles> It's just a matter of changing a line or two if you can.
May 20 10:03:18 * GeneralAntilles shrugs.
May 20 10:03:32 <jdiaz> :) I better wait
May 20 10:03:36 <GeneralAntilles> Just make sure neither of your cards are corrupted and that you don't have any recursive symlinks.
May 20 10:03:44 <GeneralAntilles> Or disable it if you don't need Media player
May 20 10:03:47 <jdiaz> I tried to mount the image from nokia, but I hadn't enough ram
May 20 10:05:59 <GeneralAntilles> OK, this one's good, jdiaz.
May 20 10:06:07 <jdiaz> same url?
May 20 10:06:08 <GeneralAntilles> Let me grab it off the device and upload it.
May 20 10:06:18 <GeneralAntilles> When it gets uploaded, yes.
May 20 10:09:03 <GeneralAntilles> Uploading. . . .
May 20 10:09:30 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/initfs.bootmenu.jffs2.zip
May 20 10:09:40 <GeneralAntilles> Same steps as before, just use this one instead.
May 20 10:11:58 <jdiaz> I think this time can do it on my own :-)
May 20 10:12:51 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, the good part of this is that you get to remember it even better 'cause you got to do it right! :D
May 20 10:12:56 <GeneralAntilles> s/right/twice/
May 20 10:12:56 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Hey, the good part of this is that you get to remember it even better 'cause you got to do it twice! :D
May 20 10:14:21 <hendry> do people here use maemo-sdk or http://www.scratchbox.org/download/scratchbox-apophis/ ?
May 20 10:18:24 <jdiaz> i reflashed this one, but apparently it is the same than before (at least, the same behaviour)
May 20 10:18:30 <jdiaz> perhaps the proxy cache...
May 20 10:18:35 <GeneralAntilles> Really?
May 20 10:18:37 <GeneralAntilles> Weirdness. :\
May 20 10:18:37 <jdiaz> how can I tell if it is a new one?
May 20 10:18:52 <GeneralAntilles> Well, the menu layout should be different.
May 20 10:18:59 <jdiaz> there is no menu layout
May 20 10:19:04 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah. . . .
May 20 10:19:14 <jdiaz> I mean.. how can I tell if the zip file is different?
May 20 10:19:21 <jdiaz> or my proxy is giving me the same file
May 20 10:19:27 <GeneralAntilles> I'll change the name.
May 20 10:19:35 <jdiaz> ok, thanks
May 20 10:19:49 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/initfs.bootmenu.new.jffs2.zip
May 20 10:20:53 <jdiaz> weird
May 20 10:21:04 <jdiaz> that url gives me an html instead of a zip
May 20 10:21:14 <jdiaz> a mostly empty html file
May 20 10:21:37 <GeneralAntilles> OK, round 3
May 20 10:22:11 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/initfs.new.jffs2.zip
May 20 10:23:01 <jdiaz> this one is good
May 20 10:23:08 <GeneralAntilles> Woo!
May 20 10:23:31 <jdiaz> i mean, the zip file
May 20 10:23:39 <jdiaz> however, once flashed, there is no menu :-(
May 20 10:23:44 <GeneralAntilles> STILL?
May 20 10:23:46 <GeneralAntilles> Yeesh
May 20 10:23:51 <GeneralAntilles> Honestly, I don't have a clue. . . .
May 20 10:24:42 <GeneralAntilles> You might try holding down the menu key on the slider when it's starting up
May 20 10:24:49 <GeneralAntilles> that might force it to bring up the bootmenu
May 20 10:25:07 <jdiaz> menu key on the slider?
May 20 10:25:22 <GeneralAntilles> Below the dpad
May 20 10:25:50 <jdiaz> yes!
May 20 10:26:00 <jdiaz> I have a menu now
May 20 10:26:05 <GeneralAntilles> Woo
May 20 10:26:08 <GeneralAntilles> Now press home to start USB net
May 20 10:26:12 <KotCzarny> by the time he would have clean reflsh already..
May 20 10:26:26 <jdiaz> done
May 20 10:26:35 <jdiaz> usb networking mode running
May 20 10:27:01 <jdiaz> and usb0 was automagically bring up in the PC
May 20 10:27:05 <GeneralAntilles> OK, ssh in from the PC
May 20 10:27:13 <sergio> there were some people the other day talking about a problem in Modest
May 20 10:27:27 <GeneralAntilles> The mark-as-read issue, sergio?
May 20 10:27:31 <sergio> regarding read/unread status of emails
May 20 10:27:35 <sergio> yep
May 20 10:27:38 <jdiaz> ssh 192.168.10.1
May 20 10:27:42 <sergio> I found the problem :-)
May 20 10:27:51 <jdiaz> I get no connection
May 20 10:28:06 <jdiaz> ah, sorry
May 20 10:28:11 <jdiaz> that was not the correct IP
May 20 10:28:12 <sergio> so it'll be fixed in one of the next releases
May 20 10:28:16 <GeneralAntilles> 192.168.1.15
May 20 10:28:29 <GeneralAntilles> Awesome, sergio. It'll make a lot of people happy. ;)
May 20 10:29:00 <sergio> I'll post about it when that bugfix is included in a public release
May 20 10:29:29 <GeneralAntilles> Might if I make mention of the fact that a fix is coming on itT, or should I wait?
May 20 10:30:42 <sergio> itT?
May 20 10:30:43 <GeneralAntilles> s/Might/Mind/
May 20 10:30:43 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Mind if I make mention of the fact that a fix is coming on itT, or should I wait?
May 20 10:31:42 <sergio> what's itT?
May 20 10:31:49 <GeneralAntilles> internettablettalk.com
May 20 10:31:54 <sergio> ah ok :-)
May 20 10:32:00 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13029
May 20 10:32:07 <sergio> yeah of course
May 20 10:32:13 <sergio> it's open source
May 20 10:32:17 <GeneralAntilles> Excellent, thanks!
May 20 10:32:53 <jdiaz> grr... i have to leave
May 20 10:32:58 <jdiaz> and still was unable to connect...
May 20 10:33:07 <jdiaz> ifconfig problems, tough, not tablet related
May 20 10:33:14 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, it's PC issues now
May 20 10:33:18 <GeneralAntilles> Tablet is ready for you whenever.
May 20 10:33:30 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, well, Nokia's involved. ;) There's always been a little touchiness with pre-release stuff.
May 20 10:33:43 <jdiaz> thank you very much
May 20 10:33:54 <GeneralAntilles> Sure, let me know how it works out
May 20 10:37:17 <Cptnodegard> gps is phun ^_^
May 20 10:45:53 <b0unc3> good morning
May 20 10:46:32 <b0unc3> is there any way to see .ppt files on tablet ?
May 20 10:47:42 <X-Fade_> Openoffice? :)
May 20 10:48:19 <X-Fade_> There was this post about it being available, but I think it is a resource hog..
May 20 10:48:47 * KotCzarny wrote a simple script to rip images from .ppt
May 20 10:48:48 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 10:49:10 <X-Fade_> Yeah, I think you can also convert them to pdf with openoffice?
May 20 10:49:36 <Saviq> yeah, file > save as pdf
May 20 10:49:50 <KotCzarny> pdf? save as avi!
May 20 10:49:51 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 10:50:05 <Saviq> right, and that's no resource hog? ;)
May 20 10:50:08 <KotCzarny> or even better mpeg2 stream
May 20 10:50:30 <KotCzarny> well, you start with .ppt, so why stop in the middle of the fun?
May 20 10:50:55 <jdiaz> upload it to google docs
May 20 10:51:09 <jdiaz> and use the browser to see it
May 20 10:52:42 <jdiaz> (GeneralAntilles, I'm back, but from a different computer without usbnet. I can't continue the recovering process)
May 20 10:53:03 <GeneralAntilles> Well, a straight reflash is always an option at this point. ;)
May 20 10:53:16 <GeneralAntilles> You already backed up your user folder at least.
May 20 10:55:21 <jdiaz> I'll wait until I can continue the recovering process in my office PC
May 20 10:55:46 <GeneralAntilles> Alternatively, you could try beating it with a stick until it gives up all of its secrets. :D
May 20 10:55:50 <jdiaz> I can also prepare a SD "rescue" card, I guess
May 20 10:56:32 <blahdeblah-lap> GeneralAntilles: Is fsck.vfat -fnvV of my SD card on a desktop system a good enough test to prove no corruption?
May 20 10:57:00 <GeneralAntilles> Should be, blahdeblah-lap.
May 20 10:57:04 <GeneralAntilles> Both cards?
May 20 10:57:55 <blahdeblah-lap> Yep
May 20 10:58:43 <GeneralAntilles> Well, the only other reproducible thing that causes metalayer to go crazy is recursive symlinks.
May 20 10:59:03 <blahdeblah-lap> Are any 3rd party apps known to create them?
May 20 10:59:26 <GeneralAntilles> I suppose that's a possibility
May 20 10:59:32 <GeneralAntilles> But I don't know of any.
May 20 11:03:19 <jdiaz> there exists some kind of "rescue disk" for NIT, which can be copied into the external flash memory, and then used to boot?
May 20 11:03:30 <KotCzarny> not yet
May 20 11:03:40 <KotCzarny> though you can create copy of your normal os
May 20 11:03:41 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 11:03:46 <KotCzarny> and run from it as usual
May 20 11:03:53 <jdiaz> only mount, vi, and busybox would be required
May 20 11:03:59 <jdiaz> I only need to edit /etc/passwd!
May 20 11:04:01 <GeneralAntilles> jdiaz, you could always stick Debian on an ext2 partition on the card and boot that.
May 20 11:04:05 <KotCzarny> then it's included in fanoush initfs
May 20 11:04:07 <KotCzarny> i think
May 20 11:04:08 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 11:04:28 <Stskeeps> did anyone manage to do usbnet with a windows machine yet, per chance?
May 20 11:06:02 <blahdeblah-lap> GeneralAntilles: Are there any tools to find recursive symlinks?
May 20 11:06:13 <GeneralAntilles> metalayer-crawler? :D
May 20 11:06:21 <blahdeblah-lap> Well, it's working!
May 20 11:07:00 <blahdeblah-lap> This is freaking driving me crazy
May 20 11:07:08 * blahdeblah-lap goes back to the bug 1842 workaround
May 20 11:07:11 <GeneralAntilles> Just kill it and move on. :P
May 20 11:07:46 <blahdeblah-lap> But every time i reboot it will come back!
May 20 11:08:26 <Stskeeps> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/USBnetworkingWinXP/ <- neat :)
May 20 11:08:32 <blahdeblah-lap> Hmmm...  Bug 1842 doesn't seem to have that workaround - maybe it was another one...
May 20 11:09:07 <GeneralAntilles> There's a number of workaround on itT.
May 20 11:13:35 <K-Fox> hi
May 20 11:14:10 <K-Fox> fennec browser is fast than microb?
May 20 11:15:49 <GeneralAntilles> Not in practice
May 20 11:16:26 <GeneralAntilles> It's based on a much newer version of Firefox that has a lot of memory and js optimizations
May 20 11:16:41 <GeneralAntilles> but Fennec's is pretty slow and broken otherwise right now.
May 20 11:16:42 <K-Fox> ok
May 20 11:17:04 <GeneralAntilles> MicroB will be merged with trunk for Diablo+1
May 20 11:17:36 <GeneralAntilles> Once Fennec and MicroB are inline, then MicroB should be a little faster on the NITs.
May 20 11:48:27 <GeneralAntilles> Ugh: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=183607#post183607
May 20 11:48:37 <GeneralAntilles> Like we need more fragmentation on the software front.
May 20 11:49:19 <KotCzarny> well, seems like another repo
May 20 11:49:20 <KotCzarny> :>
May 20 11:49:50 <X-Fade_> I'm biased, so I might want to stay out of this one ;)
May 20 11:50:08 <KotCzarny> x-fade: no!
May 20 11:50:13 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 11:50:22 <KotCzarny> just kidding
May 20 11:50:26 <GeneralAntilles> It seems like a very ill-considered decision. . . .
May 20 11:50:38 <GeneralAntilles> What's wrong with setting up some sort of syndication from garage/downloads?
May 20 11:50:40 <X-Fade_> GeneralAntilles: Well, without discussion...
May 20 11:50:52 <GeneralAntilles> We've already got a perfectly good system in place. . . .
May 20 11:50:58 <KotCzarny> well
May 20 11:51:04 <KotCzarny> perfectly isn't a good word for it
May 20 11:51:05 <KotCzarny> :>
May 20 11:52:43 <KotCzarny> well, reading that post it's even worse..
May 20 11:52:54 <KotCzarny> it's encouraging users to post their own repos
May 20 11:52:55 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 12:09:18 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: maemo so-called community did not learnt anything from Zaurus guys
May 20 12:09:46 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: Zaurus had many distros and users used even antique ones. lot of fragmentation...
May 20 12:10:07 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: now maemo users follow same direction within one distro
May 20 12:19:01 <Sakkath> Will aircrack-ng work on on n800?
May 20 12:19:55 <Sakkath> http://mfresh-n800.blogspot.com/2007/08/using-aircrack-ng-suite-on-nokia-n800.html says 'become root'. I don't know the user psasword and it can't be changed with passwd
May 20 12:20:07 <hrw> ~becameroot
May 20 12:20:13 <hrw> ~becomeroot
May 20 12:20:26 <KotCzarny> ~fail
May 20 12:20:27 <infobot> Sorry, kotczarny, you have failed.
May 20 12:20:27 <Sakkath> ty
May 20 12:20:29 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 20 12:20:53 <KotCzarny> hrw, do you know owner of that bot?
May 20 12:21:27 <Sakkath> .
May 20 12:21:39 <Cptnodegard> infobot is i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt * TimRiker's infobot
May 20 12:21:43 <GeneralAntilles> Sakkath, nitapps.com has easyroot
May 20 12:21:52 <GeneralAntilles> Just type "root" to gain a root shell once it's installed.
May 20 12:22:00 <KotCzarny> cpt: but do you know him?
May 20 12:22:02 <Sakkath> ok
May 20 12:22:24 <Cptnodegard> no
May 20 12:22:47 <KotCzarny> then it's not helping much
May 20 12:23:09 <KotCzarny> bots shouldn't run unattended
May 20 12:23:10 <hrw> infobot: becomeroot is on Maemo to get root run "sudo gainroot" or dig in maemo.org wiki for proper howto
May 20 12:23:11 <infobot> hrw: okay
May 20 12:23:15 <hrw> ~becomeroot
May 20 12:23:16 <infobot> [becomeroot] on Maemo to get root run "sudo gainroot" or dig in maemo.org wiki for proper howto
May 20 12:23:52 <KotCzarny> grammar failed?
May 20 12:23:53 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 12:24:24 <GeneralAntilles> infobot, easyroot is an easy way to gain a root shell. http://nitapps.com/dists/chinook/user/binary-armel/easyroot_1.0-4_armel.deb
May 20 12:24:25 <infobot> ...but easyroot is already something else...
May 20 12:24:31 <GeneralAntilles> ~easyroot
May 20 12:24:32 <infobot> it has been said that easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com
May 20 12:24:52 <KotCzarny> infobot: root is to get root look for: easyroot, becomeroot or ssh
May 20 12:24:53 * infobot uses a keylogger to pwnz all is to get root look for: easyroot, becomeroot or ssh 's boxen.
May 20 12:25:05 <KotCzarny> o.o
May 20 12:25:09 <KotCzarny> ~root
May 20 12:25:10 <infobot> from memory, root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.
May 20 12:25:15 <KotCzarny> fail.
May 20 12:25:16 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 12:25:16 <hrw> KotCzarny: remember that this bot is not only #maemo
May 20 12:25:29 <KotCzarny> hrw: then double fail
May 20 12:25:43 <hrw> KotCzarny: maemo suxx anyway
May 20 12:25:48 <KotCzarny> hrw: lol
May 20 12:26:02 <KotCzarny> hrw: anyway, have you seen my bootmenu?
May 20 12:26:03 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 12:26:20 <hrw> KotCzarny: have it installed, never used
May 20 12:26:32 <KotCzarny> http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/bootmenu/bootmenu-kc-colors.jpg
May 20 12:26:33 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 12:27:04 <hrw> KotCzarny: bootmenu suxx when kernel outputs data
May 20 12:27:20 <KotCzarny> you can configure it for this
May 20 12:27:25 <Sakkath> cal_read_block(r&d_mode): size zero, block not found?      Enable RD mode if you want to break your device
May 20 12:28:42 <Sakkath> I need pc connection for R&D mode?
May 20 12:28:48 <Sakkath> damn
May 20 12:29:05 <hrw> Sakkath: get used to it
May 20 12:29:11 <Sakkath> dropbear?
May 20 12:29:35 <GeneralAntilles> Sakkath, install easyroot or becomeroot or ssh
May 20 12:29:40 <Sakkath> Oh, I can install becomeroot
May 20 12:29:48 <Sakkath> I can't connect to wireless atm though, i don't know what's wrong
May 20 12:29:58 <Sakkath> 'Network connection error' <-- not too verbose
May 20 12:33:20 <RST38h> New Canola is out!
May 20 12:33:25 <KotCzarny> yes
May 20 12:33:27 <RST38h> [and I am away from my tablet!]
May 20 12:34:44 <Cptnodegard> away from your tableT+ o.o
May 20 12:34:46 <Cptnodegard> omfg
May 20 12:34:54 <Cptnodegard> cruel person
May 20 12:34:58 * RST38h weeps silently
May 20 12:35:31 * Cptnodegard operates a BT device into his arms and makes an app that goes "hi daddy" when connection is made between device and tablet
May 20 12:38:19 <hrw> RST38h: no samba support?
May 20 12:45:59 <Khertan_TheReal> Hi !
May 20 12:47:39 <Khertan> :)
May 20 12:56:57 <kcome> my N810 :P
May 20 12:56:58 <kcome> http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20080520008bd1.jpg
May 20 12:57:31 <KotCzarny> looks stock
May 20 12:57:33 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 20 13:00:32 <Blom> FAN!
May 20 13:00:40 <Blom> Fajka i alla fall.
May 20 13:09:34 * RST38h is happy to see that he is not the only one with N810 front panel slightly caved in at the right side
May 20 13:22:55 <RST38h> "A former Gentoo developer yesterday revealed that he has been working on a new hardcore Linux distribution, dubbed Exherbo."
May 20 13:23:22 <KotCzarny> lets hope actual distro will be better than name
May 20 13:23:33 <RST38h> [and these people used to trash BSD for "many forks"?]
May 20 13:23:45 <KotCzarny> 'these' ?
May 20 13:23:53 <KotCzarny> it's a one person
May 20 13:23:56 <RST38h> Kot: will be another crapload of pseudo-hardcore stuff
May 20 13:23:58 <KotCzarny> at least from your citation
May 20 13:23:59 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:24:14 <KotCzarny> well, for me slacware is quite hardcore
May 20 13:24:15 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 20 13:24:18 <RST38h> Kot: I don't mean this particular guy, I mean the tendency
May 20 13:24:18 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe, I know the guy.
May 20 13:24:21 <GeneralAntilles> he's no chump
May 20 13:24:31 <kulve> "OK, I Want to Try Exherbo
May 20 13:24:32 <kulve> No you don't."
May 20 13:24:41 <RST38h> GA: Wants to be even more "hardcore" than Slackware? =)
May 20 13:24:43 <kulve> "In Conclusion
May 20 13:24:44 <kulve> It's not that we hate you (unless we do). It's just that we have nothing to offer you, and you have nothing to offer us."
May 20 13:24:59 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:25:02 <Veggen> KotCzarny/RST38h: Getting rid of forks like that can't be done without getting rid of some of the creativity surrounding Linux.
May 20 13:25:06 <thopiekar> hi @ all
May 20 13:25:12 <GeneralAntilles> It's not a "hardcore" epenis issue.
May 20 13:25:18 <RST38h> "-- Then why the hell did you write this in the first place?"
May 20 13:26:01 <KotCzarny> 'just because he can' ?
May 20 13:26:02 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:26:05 <RST38h> Veggen: I do not see creativity here. I see people continually repackaging somebody else's work adorned with their own configuration/management/installation/packaging scripts
May 20 13:26:24 <trickie_> its not a fork
May 20 13:26:34 <GeneralAntilles> It's largely new stuff, actually.
May 20 13:26:37 <RST38h> it is another distro
May 20 13:26:37 <trickie_> it has some in common from gentoo land
May 20 13:26:39 <Veggen> RST38h: but sometimes, someone makes something radically better or in a better way than done before.
May 20 13:26:54 <RST38h> Veggen: sometimes yes. very very rarely.
May 20 13:27:00 <KotCzarny> name is bad, still
May 20 13:27:00 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:27:27 <GeneralAntilles> uproot in latin.
May 20 13:27:36 <Veggen> RST38h: True, but still - since there is so much interest in Linux, it's not possible to differ between good forks and bad forks like that.
May 20 13:27:43 <thopiekar> i've got a problem getting up eth0 of my usb-lan adapter... it is using the asix.ko - module... if i set in the command in the console: ifconfig eth0 up.. my n800 freezes and the screen "crashes"... how can i fix this and get eth0 working??
May 20 13:27:52 <RST38h> GA: So, what is this guy uprooting, anyway?
May 20 13:28:16 <Veggen> RST38h: THere's noone to tell someone that "this is a bad fork". And sometimes, that's a good thing, because sometimes something that looks bad ends up being the good choice.
May 20 13:28:27 <Veggen> In the end, the ability to fork leads to better systems.
May 20 13:28:44 <KotCzarny> well
May 20 13:28:58 <KotCzarny> in commerce many brands fork
May 20 13:29:08 <KotCzarny> just to confuse customers
May 20 13:29:09 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:29:19 <RST38h> Veggen: with the current number of distros, the first thing that comes to mind is "let's wait until these guys figure out just what exactly Linux is" :)
May 20 13:29:21 <KotCzarny> 'hey, we've got something new'
May 20 13:29:22 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:29:24 <Khertan> RST38h > pfff
May 20 13:29:39 <KotCzarny> linux is a kernel
May 20 13:29:40 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:29:51 <Khertan> lol
May 20 13:29:52 <RST38h> And no, as a layman, I will not buy "Linux is a Kernel!" crap ;)
May 20 13:30:11 <RST38h> Kot <-- types faster ;)
May 20 13:30:23 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 20 13:30:33 <KotCzarny> unless you talk about linux os
May 20 13:32:27 <KotCzarny> rst: but hey, if i take away all the libs, is it still linux?
May 20 13:32:41 <RST38h> "...in related news, a company called Ulteo took a well known public coLinux project and advertises it as 'Ulteo Virtual Desktop'" :)
May 20 13:33:02 <RST38h> Kot: My guess is, it is not Linux unless it works
May 20 13:33:18 <KotCzarny> rst: ok, kernel + one static binary
May 20 13:33:20 <RST38h> Kot: Which means, you are gonna have kernel, libs, and apps
May 20 13:33:21 <KotCzarny> is it linux?
May 20 13:33:22 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:33:37 <RST38h> Probably, but do not try selling it to users =)
May 20 13:33:41 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 20 13:33:43 <KotCzarny> why
May 20 13:33:54 <KotCzarny> 'do one thing, but do it good'
May 20 13:33:55 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 20 13:34:06 <RST38h> like...like...like run BASH!
May 20 13:34:17 <KotCzarny> you run, then you bash?
May 20 13:34:44 <RST38h> Kot: you run, then customers bash you
May 20 13:34:56 <KotCzarny> you need firewall then
May 20 13:35:07 <KotCzarny> burn the bastards
May 20 13:37:25 <czr> just hope they don't install the firewall the wrong way around
May 20 13:37:43 <RST38h> Kot: you said ONE binary ;)
May 20 13:37:46 <KotCzarny> 'fire in the hole' ?
May 20 13:37:47 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 20 13:38:18 <czr> RST38h, one could use the kuserm (or smt like that) that allows you to run executables in kernel, then fuze the initramfs into the kernel image.
May 20 13:38:27 <KotCzarny> rst, well, you can always links some firewall.o to your binary
May 20 13:38:28 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:38:30 <czr> although maybe the latter part would be enough..
May 20 13:38:48 <KotCzarny> *link
May 20 13:39:01 <KotCzarny> or load your apps as modules?
May 20 13:39:02 <KotCzarny> :>
May 20 13:39:10 <RST38h> load them as kernel modules, right
May 20 13:39:15 <KotCzarny> that would be fun
May 20 13:39:15 <KotCzarny> :>
May 20 13:39:18 <RST38h> include GIMP as a kernel module
May 20 13:39:26 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
May 20 13:39:33 <RST38h> then sell the whole pile as a "new virtualization paradigm"
May 20 13:39:53 <KotCzarny> you can even make them disposable
May 20 13:39:58 <KotCzarny> ie. you can even them once
May 20 13:40:03 <KotCzarny> then you need new licence
May 20 13:40:04 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:40:06 <GeneralAntilles> With a monolithic kernel, anything is possible!
May 20 13:40:28 <KotCzarny> s/even/load/
May 20 13:40:35 <hiho-man> http://xrl.us/bkj9x
May 20 13:40:59 <KotCzarny> hiho-man: obscure language
May 20 13:41:25 * KotCzarny hates spam in foreign languages
May 20 13:41:56 <hrw> ;)
May 20 13:42:33 <KotCzarny> hmm
May 20 13:42:42 <KotCzarny> jvm as kernel module
May 20 13:42:42 <Khertan> a stupid online game
May 20 13:42:43 <KotCzarny> mmm
May 20 13:43:03 <KotCzarny> they put it in arm, so why not in kernel?
May 20 13:43:17 <Khertan> KotCzarny > kernel module should not eat more that 512Mo of RAM ...
May 20 13:43:33 <KotCzarny> should not != can not
May 20 13:43:34 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:43:55 <KotCzarny> and what unit it is?
May 20 13:43:55 <Khertan> yeah of course ... so jvm in a kernel module ...
May 20 13:44:03 <KotCzarny> Mega ovums?
May 20 13:44:05 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:44:12 <Khertan> arf ... sorry i'm french
May 20 13:44:15 <Khertan> Mb
May 20 13:44:20 <KotCzarny> Mega bits?
May 20 13:44:21 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:45:03 <Khertan> i'm a french dev ... which code in a french language ... (4D ... for who know)
May 20 13:45:17 <Khertan> so sometimes ... the switch isn't well made ...
May 20 13:45:20 <czr> I thought 4D was just time. not a french programming language.
May 20 13:45:27 * czr learns new things
May 20 13:45:30 <Khertan> ... 4D is it
May 20 13:45:42 <Khertan> http://4d.fr/
May 20 13:45:45 <Khertan> :)
May 20 13:45:49 <Khertan> it s a rad ...
May 20 13:45:50 <czr> adfr?
May 20 13:45:50 <KotCzarny> another spam?
May 20 13:45:55 <czr> it's like asdfasdf
May 20 13:46:09 <Khertan> 4d.com
May 20 13:46:10 <Khertan> :)
May 20 13:46:14 <KotCzarny> yeah
May 20 13:46:21 <KotCzarny> obscure language too
May 20 13:46:27 <Khertan> too :)
May 20 13:46:33 <czr> with gurgling sounds and stuff?
May 20 13:46:40 <Khertan> lol
May 20 13:46:40 <czr> gurgle(params)
May 20 13:47:04 <KotCzarny> but motto they have in english
May 20 13:47:06 <KotCzarny> weirdos
May 20 13:47:07 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:47:40 <Khertan> what's is funny is that the programming language is available in French, English, Deutsh, and Spain language
May 20 13:47:57 <czr> what. no finnish?
May 20 13:48:03 * czr pities the fools
May 20 13:48:04 <KotCzarny> you can translate c names to french too
May 20 13:48:12 <KotCzarny> not that it would make much sense
May 20 13:48:13 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:48:15 <czr> the parser would be much more interesting
May 20 13:48:17 <Khertan> and is stored in the file as bytecode ... so you can see a french source code
May 20 13:48:29 <czr> french sauce code.
May 20 13:48:29 <Khertan> in spain
May 20 13:48:30 <KotCzarny> french bytes.. mm
May 20 13:48:34 <Khertan> lol
May 20 13:48:44 <Khertan> but ... it s bit lazy
May 20 13:48:57 <KotCzarny> for lazy projects i like php
May 20 13:48:58 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:49:20 <Khertan> i prefer goto++
May 20 13:49:32 <czr> does it have turtles?
May 20 13:49:34 <KotCzarny> goto is to stiff
May 20 13:49:39 <KotCzarny> *too
May 20 13:49:39 <Khertan> http://www.gotopp.org//index.html.en
May 20 13:49:47 <czr> without turtles the language is not useful!
May 20 13:49:53 <czr> a language needs to have turtles.
May 20 13:49:59 <czr> or snakes
May 20 13:50:19 <KotCzarny> snakes on a language?
May 20 13:50:30 <czr> "Designed in the middle of the nineties by the scientists of ©NIACsoftware, this brand new method to approach the computer science will change your life! "
May 20 13:50:36 <czr> somehow I doubt that sentence..
May 20 13:50:41 <Khertan> lol
May 20 13:50:51 <czr> KotCzarny, :-)
May 20 13:51:10 <Khertan> goto++ (or gotopp) tg
May 20 13:51:10 <KotCzarny> available in drug store near you?
May 20 13:51:14 <czr> "A new version of the GOTO++ is available! It is the 0.30 version and it adds a lot of bugs, yahoo!"
May 20 13:51:15 <Khertan> the best french language
May 20 13:51:21 <Khertan> §1
May 20 13:51:21 <Khertan> GOTOPRINTDUTEXTE() ; «Hello World !»
May 20 13:51:21 <Khertan> GOTO which do nothing
May 20 13:51:21 <Khertan> GOTOGOTO() *(1)
May 20 13:51:28 <czr> now I know why microsoft wanted to buy yahoo.
May 20 13:51:44 <Khertan> yahoo is not french ?
May 20 13:51:45 <czr> so that they could migrate all their INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY from VB to Pogo++
May 20 13:52:11 <czr> my logic is convoluted,
May 20 13:52:28 <czr> "The language has been sligthy modified but the documentation is not entirely up to date, in order to stiffen the transition."
May 20 13:52:47 <czr> somehow I get the impression that the dev team of GOTO++ strives to add problems that most other people try to get rid of :-)
May 20 13:53:00 * RST38h liked PERL in Latin more
May 20 13:53:21 <KotCzarny> in piglatin?
May 20 13:53:30 <RST38h> more or less
May 20 13:53:33 <RST38h> a moment
May 20 13:53:48 <Khertan> CreerTortue () :Fenetre
May 20 13:53:48 <Khertan> ?	 Tortue
May 20 13:53:52 <RST38h> http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html
May 20 13:54:05 <Khertan> there is a function CreerTortue ... (in english CreateTurtle)
May 20 13:54:15 <czr> sorry but are these people serious? ( http://www.gotopp.org//images/logo10.jpg )
May 20 13:54:16 <KotCzarny> did you know that latin was lacking letter 'v' ?
May 20 13:54:43 <RST38h> czr: no. did you have to ask?:)
May 20 13:54:52 <RST38h> kot: yes
May 20 13:54:57 <Khertan> 	
May 20 13:54:57 <Khertan> GOTOCHEPA (GOTODONTKNOW)
May 20 13:54:57 <Khertan> This command is very similar to GOTOGOTO, the only difference is that it is possible to return to education which follows with a REGOTO.
May 20 13:54:57 <Khertan> It is possible to recover the value returned by REGOTO.
May 20 13:55:00 <czr> RST38h, long day.. I've lost my humour :-)
May 20 13:55:10 <RST38h> Kot: it was lacking U actually
May 20 13:55:14 <RST38h> Use V for U
May 20 13:55:24 <KotCzarny> or other way round
May 20 13:55:25 <Khertan> this is not a serious language ... but it work
May 20 13:55:26 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:55:32 <Khertan> there is binding for gtk
May 20 13:55:35 <RST38h> Check the nearest courthouse in the US for confirmation
May 20 13:55:37 <Khertan> and a real compiler
May 20 13:55:44 <disq> ooh grumby is good
May 20 13:55:46 <KotCzarny> rst, yeah, i know
May 20 13:55:49 <Khertan> but i ll never use this ...
May 20 13:55:51 <RST38h> those places usually have thoughtful latin inscriptions at the front
May 20 13:55:53 <czr> Khertan, does it compile itself?
May 20 13:55:58 <czr> Khertan, it's not a real compiler otherwise.
May 20 13:56:12 <Khertan> i think no ...
May 20 13:56:25 <czr> RST38h, like "HEE HEE, NO ONE WILL EVER BOTHER TRANSLATING THIS ANYWAY"
May 20 13:56:41 <czr> in latin it will sound profound.
May 20 13:56:47 <KotCzarny> or 'KEEP RIGHT'
May 20 13:57:15 <KotCzarny> maybe in 3000 years some guys would find ruins of our civilization
May 20 13:57:22 <RST38h> and be puzzled
May 20 13:57:39 <czr> damn, I knew one day a book that I have would become handy
May 20 13:57:46 <czr> "Pulle! Visne Frustum?"
May 20 13:57:57 <Khertan> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ook
May 20 13:57:58 <czr> (Polly want a cracker? in Latin)
May 20 13:57:59 <RST38h> Plastic Ronald McDonald statues would probably generate the biggest amount of scholarly papers
May 20 13:58:32 <czr> or: Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
May 20 13:58:44 <czr> (May faulty logic undermine your entire philosophy!)
May 20 13:58:50 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 13:59:33 <czr> Foras gradiamur (Let's step outside)
May 20 13:59:33 <GeneralAntilles> The idols of our civilization, RST38h? :D
May 20 13:59:44 <RST38h> GA: Most likely
May 20 14:00:17 <KotCzarny> well, plastic is edible
May 20 14:00:19 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 14:00:32 <RST38h> Would probably qualify as a minor deity local to thenorthwestern indochina
May 20 14:01:05 <czr> videris humilor seniorque coram
May 20 14:01:12 <czr> it sounds profound, I tell you
May 20 14:01:19 <czr> (You look shorter and older in person)
May 20 14:01:50 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
May 20 14:02:42 <RST38h> If Ronald is lucky, he may even be considered a God of Pedophilia
May 20 14:02:50 <KotCzarny> unlikely
May 20 14:03:05 <KotCzarny> more like god of bad diet
May 20 14:03:08 <RST38h> With all those pictures of Him with children? With that Smile?
May 20 14:03:30 <RST38h> Well, hamburgers won't survive into that time, but advertising materials will
May 20 14:03:42 <KotCzarny> paper is edible too
May 20 14:03:58 <RST38h> Everything is edible under certain circumstances =)
May 20 14:04:07 <KotCzarny> yes
May 20 14:05:03 <RST38h> Forget the Ronald though, the really big question is what archeologists would think of all those iPod docks.
May 20 14:05:29 <KotCzarny> there would be no music on them
May 20 14:05:32 <KotCzarny> by that time
May 20 14:05:38 <RST38h> no iPods either
May 20 14:06:02 <KotCzarny> iNtropia
May 20 14:06:09 <RST38h> They would probably not be classified to be the same kind of device, with all those shapes
May 20 14:06:41 <KotCzarny> that depends if aliens profile us already
May 20 14:06:42 <RST38h> Would look like somebody sticking weird sockets into household items
May 20 14:07:07 <lopz> morning
May 20 14:07:17 <KotCzarny> stick it in a hole
May 20 14:07:27 <RST38h> It does not: an iPod dock has not constant shape, so whatever aliens think of us, they would have to figure out that all those pieces of plastic srve the same function
May 20 14:07:54 <czr> "it must be some kind of device where these things plugged themselves to watch simulporn"
May 20 14:08:15 <KotCzarny> it's shiny
May 20 14:08:19 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 14:08:26 <czr> right. "shiny simulporn"
May 20 14:09:24 <KotCzarny> it has a button
May 20 14:09:51 <czr> to join/detach from the session obviously.
May 20 14:10:09 <KotCzarny> death ray
May 20 14:10:25 <KotCzarny> well, maybe not originals
May 20 14:10:33 <czr> or. maybe. "Summon Dragon"
May 20 14:10:39 <RST38h> Kot: You reminded me
May 20 14:10:41 <KotCzarny> but some chinese models have it
May 20 14:10:48 <RST38h> Forget McDonalds. Forget iPod docks.
May 20 14:11:05 <RST38h> What about StarWars light saber replicas?
May 20 14:11:13 <czr> heh
May 20 14:11:14 <KotCzarny> plastic
May 20 14:11:17 <KotCzarny> edible
May 20 14:11:18 <RST38h> If you were an archeologist, what would you say of THAT
May 20 14:11:30 <czr> RST38h, piece of some fancy exhaust piping system?
May 20 14:11:30 <KotCzarny> rst: do they vibrate?
May 20 14:11:31 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 14:11:58 <KotCzarny> they are just dildos for boys
May 20 14:12:14 <KotCzarny> psychological dildos
May 20 14:12:15 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 14:13:26 <KotCzarny> spaceballs
May 20 14:13:27 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 14:13:34 <RST38h> I agree with Kot on dildo function
May 20 14:14:42 <KotCzarny> that reminds me, http://imagechan.net/img/5512/Wrong%20convention/
May 20 14:14:43 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 14:15:33 <RST38h> Ewoks!
May 20 14:17:05 <KotCzarny> heh
May 20 14:19:00 <jdiaz> back
May 20 14:19:11 <jdiaz> GeneralAntilles, are you still here?
May 20 14:19:15 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
May 20 14:20:29 <jdiaz> hi
May 20 14:20:47 <jdiaz> I finally got the usb network connection
May 20 14:21:11 <jdiaz> I'm root now. How is named the device which represents the old root filesystem?
May 20 14:21:27 <KotCzarny>  /dev/mtdblock4
May 20 14:21:28 <KotCzarny> probably
May 20 14:21:29 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 14:21:36 <jdiaz> thanks
May 20 14:21:44 <GeneralAntilles> The mount command is in fanoush's readme file.
May 20 14:21:57 <jdiaz> oops... the tablet shut down
May 20 14:22:05 <jdiaz> probably too much time without activity?
May 20 14:22:15 <jdiaz> but I had a telnet connection established...
May 20 14:22:21 <KotCzarny> maybe watchdog
May 20 14:22:23 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 14:22:44 <KotCzarny> or accidental ctrl-d
May 20 14:23:27 <jdiaz> mount /dev/mtdblock4 /mnt/new_root/
May 20 14:23:29 <jdiaz> doesnt work
May 20 14:23:43 <jdiaz> Invalid argument
May 20 14:24:19 <GeneralAntilles> mount -t jffs2 /dev/mtdblock4 /tmp/mnt
May 20 14:24:55 <jdiaz> yeah
May 20 14:25:20 <jdiaz> ok, mounted, and /etc/passwd edited
May 20 14:25:21 <RST38h> Holographic Bill Gates terrorizes Kuala Lumpur tech conference
May 20 14:25:22 <jdiaz> rebooting noe
May 20 14:25:24 <jdiaz> now
May 20 14:25:35 <RST38h> The crowd cheered -- or screamed in terror -- as the giant 4.6-meter holographic specter assured them that technology is, in fact, the future.
May 20 14:26:28 <KotCzarny> future terror has a bright future?
May 20 14:28:37 <jdiaz> GA done. /etc/passwd and /etc/sudoers fixed
May 20 14:28:41 <GeneralAntilles> Woo
May 20 14:28:47 <jdiaz> :D
May 20 14:28:51 <GeneralAntilles> Only took 2 hours. :D
May 20 14:29:07 <jdiaz> naah, you are also counting 1:30h for launch
May 20 14:29:34 <jdiaz> one minor problem remains, now after each reboot, the tablet keeps asking me the date and time
May 20 14:29:38 <KotCzarny> now you are prepared for some serious breakages
May 20 14:29:44 <jdiaz> probably something in linuxrc
May 20 14:29:54 * qwerty12 is surprised 31 people actually downloaded upstart
May 20 14:30:09 <pupnik_> testing the camera, GeneralAntilles
May 20 14:30:14 <GeneralAntilles> Cool
May 20 14:30:34 <qwerty12> jdiaz, Not in linuxrc. Linuxrc is for the initfs. After linuxrc mounts rootfs on /, control is gone.
May 20 14:30:35 <jdiaz> can I freely edit /mnt/initrc scripts?
May 20 14:30:40 <qwerty12> jdiaz, no
May 20 14:30:50 * RST38h wonders why nobody has used camera as a cheapo replacement fo accelerometer yet
May 20 14:30:52 <KotCzarny> why no?
May 20 14:31:04 <pupnik_> great idea RST38h
May 20 14:31:09 <qwerty12> Not straight from /mnt/initfs iirc
May 20 14:31:12 <jdiaz> hmmm... then why the tablet ask me the date, if all what was modified was initrc?
May 20 14:31:13 <KotCzarny> rst: because camera is crappy?
May 20 14:31:21 <RST38h> Kot: does not matter
May 20 14:31:25 <qwerty12> Unless you are doing it through bootmenu :/
May 20 14:31:30 <qwerty12> jdiaz, what did you change?
May 20 14:31:31 <RST38h> It will do for computing visual flow
May 20 14:31:39 <RST38h> and theless pixels - the better
May 20 14:31:40 <KotCzarny> rst: well, if you want to compute noise flow
May 20 14:31:41 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 14:32:03 <RST38h> it's not that bad, although you MAY need to wear a striped tshirt to play =)
May 20 14:32:12 <KotCzarny> not to mention i only managed mplayer/mencoder to work with it
May 20 14:32:35 <RST38h> there should be interface that lets you download the current image
May 20 14:32:36 <KotCzarny> none other v4l[12] app wanted to grab
May 20 14:32:48 <jdiaz> I installed fanoush initrc
May 20 14:32:50 <KotCzarny> ie, they can set mode, params
May 20 14:33:01 <RST38h> you do not need a v4l app, just direct access to the image and some highly optimized math
May 20 14:33:02 <KotCzarny> but actual read from fd fails with 'invalid argument'
May 20 14:33:21 <RST38h> lemme check
May 20 14:33:23 <KotCzarny> rst: how do i grab data from webcam then?
May 20 14:33:32 <jdiaz> no, wait... fanoush initrc has nothing to do here...
May 20 14:33:35 <RST38h> checking
May 20 14:33:39 <qwerty12> jdiaz, That's it? i've been using bootmenu fine. I even added it in manually off a computer for the diablo initfs which it doesn't support officially yet.
May 20 14:33:44 <KotCzarny> working example would be nice
May 20 14:33:44 <qwerty12> I just saw new msg.
May 20 14:33:45 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 14:34:03 <jdiaz> GeneralAntilles used fanoush initrc in order to create an initrc jffs2 image
May 20 14:34:08 <jdiaz> he gave the image to me
May 20 14:34:15 <jdiaz> I flashed it using nokia flasher
May 20 14:34:21 <GeneralAntilles> initfs
May 20 14:34:26 <jdiaz> that is
May 20 14:34:27 <jdiaz> initfs
May 20 14:34:36 <jdiaz> now, when I boot, I have a boot menu
May 20 14:34:42 <qwerty12> You can make an fanoush initfs image off the device.
May 20 14:34:43 <RST38h> Kot: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/how_to_use_camera_api.html
May 20 14:34:56 <GeneralAntilles> But not without root access, qwerty12. ;)
May 20 14:34:57 <RST38h> Using GStreamer for it is atrocious though
May 20 14:34:58 <KotCzarny> checking
May 20 14:35:01 <jdiaz> yes, but I was unable because I'd lost root access
May 20 14:35:11 <Khertan> someone have try mCalendar ?
May 20 14:35:18 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, Ahh, I see. My bad.
May 20 14:35:31 <qwerty12> KotCzarny, Applying your colour mod now :)
May 20 14:35:33 <RST38h> Kot: you do nt need the jpeg stuff
May 20 14:35:37 <qwerty12> With fb_update mode.
May 20 14:35:49 <RST38h> Kot: And if you really want to know how to compute motion flow, let me know
May 20 14:35:53 <KotCzarny> rst: you call using gstreamer direct access?
May 20 14:35:53 <jdiaz> now, when I boot from internal flash, all looks as ever, but a dialog appears asking me the date
May 20 14:36:10 <RST38h> Kot: I call it available access.
May 20 14:36:19 <jdiaz> hm
May 20 14:36:21 <RST38h> Sometimes, you have to do with whatever [shit] you are given
May 20 14:36:25 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 14:36:30 <trickie_> jdiaz: maybe you need to set the hardware clock
May 20 14:36:35 <KotCzarny> i would prefer mencoder then
May 20 14:36:42 <jdiaz> perhaps some datetime skew between the files GA provided me, and my own clock
May 20 14:36:45 <jdiaz> ?
May 20 14:37:05 <KotCzarny> jdiaz: flash your original initfs now ?
May 20 14:37:06 <RST38h> Kot: I am currently checking if more direct approach is possible
May 20 14:37:17 <KotCzarny> rst: it certainly is
May 20 14:37:24 <KotCzarny> rst: mencoder just grabs /dev/video0
May 20 14:37:26 <jdiaz> how can I obtain my original initfs now?
May 20 14:37:41 <KotCzarny> jdiaz: you made a backup, didn't you?
May 20 14:37:42 <RST38h> Kot: http://www.thedirks.org/v4l2/v4l2cap.htm
May 20 14:37:52 <jdiaz> no, I was unable. I'd lost root access
May 20 14:37:59 <RST38h> You will need to do a few ioctl()s before being able to read
May 20 14:38:10 <jdiaz> that was the only way to regain root access, indeed
May 20 14:38:21 <RST38h> QUERYCAP is probably a must on Maemo - that is why everybody but mencoder fails reading it
May 20 14:38:26 <KotCzarny> rst, i know, and as i said, i have tried normal v4l[12] apps
May 20 14:38:40 <qwerty12> jdiaz, You can extract it using flasher.
May 20 14:38:56 <GeneralAntilles> jdiaz, just grab the FIASCO image from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php
May 20 14:38:57 <qwerty12> I've got an Chinook original initfs on my desktop if you want it?
May 20 14:38:58 <KotCzarny> qwerty: to olate
May 20 14:39:15 <qwerty12> KotCzarny, Why?
May 20 14:39:23 <GeneralAntilles> then: ./flasher-3.0-static -F <FIASCO bin> --flash-only=initfs -R
May 20 14:39:41 <KotCzarny> qwerty: too late for making a backup from an already overwritten one :)
May 20 14:40:00 <jdiaz> well, in fact I do prefer this initfs, because of the usbnetwork rescue mode
May 20 14:40:08 <qwerty12> KotCzarny, I'm not saying to make a backup :/
May 20 14:40:25 <jdiaz> only that dialog about the date/time annoys me a bit
May 20 14:40:26 <KotCzarny> qwerty: it's late here, sorry if i say anything stupid :)
May 20 14:40:34 <GeneralAntilles> jdiaz, alternatively you can download fanoush's initfs flasher onto the device and setup the bootmenu.conf how you want it.
May 20 14:40:40 <qwerty12> KotCzarny, No worries :)
May 20 14:40:44 <jdiaz> anyway, the suggested date time is always correct. All what I need to do is to hit the "OK"
May 20 14:41:12 <qwerty12> jdiaz, Edit it out of the init script :/. osso-af-init handles it somewhere.
May 20 14:41:13 <GeneralAntilles> jdiaz, yeah, I don't have a clue as to why that's popping up.
May 20 14:41:37 <qwerty12> jdiaz, here's another idea. set the hardware clock using retutime
May 20 14:42:32 <qwerty12> /mnt/initfs/usr/bin/retutime --get-time-from-system
May 20 14:42:37 <qwerty12> or somehting like that :p
May 20 14:43:26 <trickie_> /mnt/initfs/usr/bin/retutime --rtc-from-system
May 20 14:43:34 <qwerty12> That's it :)
May 20 14:44:56 <jdiaz> ok, the command was run
May 20 14:45:03 <jdiaz> no output
May 20 14:45:05 <jdiaz> I'll reboot
May 20 14:46:06 <jdiaz> worked!
May 20 14:46:11 <qwerty12> Cool :)
May 20 14:46:27 <GeneralAntilles> Actually, now that I think about it, maybe N800/N810 thing?
May 20 14:46:35 <jdiaz> n810
May 20 14:46:45 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, it was generated on an N800.
May 20 14:47:02 <qwerty12> Doesn't matter. linuxrc checks to see which RX it is running off.
May 20 14:48:04 <KotCzarny> rst: yeah, that may be the reason, ie. read() vs mmap()
May 20 14:48:14 <KotCzarny> mplayer uses mmap
May 20 14:49:24 <RST38h> My guess is read() will work as well
May 20 14:49:34 <RST38h> when you send right ioctls up front
May 20 14:49:54 * jdiaz is documenting the whole odisea
May 20 14:50:12 <KotCzarny> rst: which one?
May 20 14:50:17 <RST38h> Dunno
May 20 14:50:31 <RST38h> I am looking at this thing for the first time
May 20 14:51:04 <RST38h> Would try with gstreamer first as the method of obtaining video is not important for a prototype
May 20 14:52:00 <sparr_> whats the best route if i forget the startup passcode for my 770?
May 20 14:52:11 <qwerty12> burn it
May 20 14:52:27 <KotCzarny> hit it with a hammer
May 20 14:52:32 <qwerty12> I don't know if powerlaunch with powertool runs on 770
May 20 14:52:45 <KotCzarny> what's the startup passcode?
May 20 14:53:14 <qwerty12> sparr_, Do you have fanoush bootmenu installed? Are you trying to get the code for fun or has your 770 locked you out?
May 20 14:55:26 <sparr_> no.  locked out.
May 20 14:55:45 <beford> now that somebody is talking about the lock code, what's the default code?
May 20 14:55:46 <sparr_> and its not mine, its a friend of a friends
May 20 14:55:59 <KotCzarny> 12345 ?
May 20 14:56:01 <johnx> beford, 12345 I think
May 20 14:56:08 * beford tries
May 20 14:56:21 <KotCzarny> can be found in config partition
May 20 14:56:35 <RST38h> All right, one more patch and I am going home
May 20 14:56:58 <K-Fox> what is port of rdesktop?
May 20 14:56:58 <qwerty12> I've never figured out how to retrieve it from config. I ran cat on the config partition and never saw the number :/
May 20 14:57:13 <K-Fox> port number
May 20 14:57:22 <qwerty12> check www.portforward.com
May 20 14:57:36 <beford> that worked, thanks
May 20 14:58:13 <KotCzarny> rst: to your beloved n8x0 ?
May 20 14:58:24 <RST38h> somthing like that
May 20 14:58:45 <RST38h> so sodomize it with Canola
May 20 14:59:11 <KotCzarny> btw. max for camera is 16fps at 352x288
May 20 14:59:12 <qwerty12> I plug USB cables into the N800 but I draw the line at sodomizing it...
May 20 14:59:27 <KotCzarny> *4 or /4 depending on res
May 20 14:59:37 <RST38h> Kot: what is the min?
May 20 14:59:41 <RST38h> Only need the min
May 20 14:59:53 <KotCzarny> 176x144 worked
May 20 14:59:58 <KotCzarny> haven't tried smaller
May 20 14:59:59 <RST38h> enough
May 20 15:00:15 <qwerty12> 176x144 is max resolution of video on my phone :/
May 20 15:00:41 <RST38h> qwerty<-- owns a pre-S60e3 phone
May 20 15:00:42 <KotCzarny> i should get me some sleep
May 20 15:00:53 * KotCzarny owns s60v1 phone
May 20 15:01:01 * RST38h also had one
May 20 15:01:05 * qwerty12 smashed up S60v1
May 20 15:01:05 <KotCzarny> n-gage
May 20 15:01:11 <RST38h> Actually, two, 7650 and 3650
May 20 15:01:35 <qwerty12> I have W810 - ENEA OSE, P1i - Symbian 9.1 UIQ3 and N80 - Symbian 9.1 S60v3
May 20 15:01:43 <RST38h> 7650 was a real brick, pretty much like N95 now
May 20 15:01:45 <qwerty12> I used to have N-Gage but I smashed it up.
May 20 15:01:55 <RST38h> N80 is cool
May 20 15:01:59 <qwerty12> My friend has 7650, started taking the piss out of him.
May 20 15:02:02 <qwerty12> It's a brick :p
May 20 15:02:18 <qwerty12> I just carry the W810 and P1i. (with n800 ofc)
May 20 15:02:35 <RST38h> two at the same time?
May 20 15:02:38 <RST38h> AND n800?
May 20 15:02:43 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:02:48 <qwerty12> Yeah, my school blazer has pockets :p
May 20 15:02:50 <KotCzarny> and probably a bunch of other stuff
May 20 15:03:15 <sparr_> once pandora comes out (http://openpandora.org/) ill be able to ditch all my other handhelds...  will be sad to see my gp2x and n770 go, but my pockets will thank me
May 20 15:03:32 <beford> I have a w810 too and got me the n810 this week :P
May 20 15:03:36 <KotCzarny> what's the price estimate on pandora?
May 20 15:03:52 <GeneralAntilles> Soooo ugly. :shudder:
May 20 15:04:00 <pupnik> Ok i finally got basically decent recording from the N810 screen http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HJHXMKQY  (duke nukem)
May 20 15:04:04 <RST38h> sparr: don't hold your breath though
May 20 15:04:26 <sparr_> RST38h: why?
May 20 15:04:46 <sparr_> KotCzarny: $500 if the dollar keeps going the way it is...  was less when i first heard about it
May 20 15:05:05 <qwerty12> £250 is too expensive.
May 20 15:05:06 <sparr_> about $350 today
May 20 15:05:10 <qwerty12> I bought my PSP for less.
May 20 15:05:19 <RST38h> sparr: Small company, ugly prototype
May 20 15:05:22 <sparr_> that's £199
May 20 15:05:38 <RST38h> either burns through funds before it reaches product quality OR shortly thereafter
May 20 15:05:40 <sparr_> ugly prototype?  the prototype doesnt even have a case yet, of course its ugly
May 20 15:05:41 <KotCzarny> hmm
May 20 15:05:50 <KotCzarny> 350$ for omap3 ?
May 20 15:05:55 <KotCzarny> and the open one ?
May 20 15:05:58 * RST38h has seen it in a case - the ugly boxy one, with qwerty keyboard
May 20 15:05:59 <mysc> KotC, you were right, the n810 is not worth the extra $$ over the n800
May 20 15:06:14 <sparr_> or are you talking about the case in the photo?  that's not even a prototype yet
May 20 15:06:22 <RST38h> see?
May 20 15:06:37 <qwerty12> If it's better than N900, I'll go for the Pandora. I bet N900 will still be closed. Usually, I wouldn't give a shit but I've seen what happens with N800 with closed source stuff.
May 20 15:06:51 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:06:56 <RST38h> Anyways. I would rather wait 6 more months for Nokia to switch to OMAP3
May 20 15:07:01 <KotCzarny> unless n900 come with all libs
May 20 15:07:11 <mysc> n900 is already being talked about?
May 20 15:07:13 <KotCzarny> and everything going at high performance
May 20 15:07:25 <sparr_> im a big gamer, i cant buy another handheld without gaming controls.  playing even simple stuff on nokia's handhelds is annoying
May 20 15:07:34 <pupnik> pandora is a fairly heroic effort by a dedicated tiny team with very little money
May 20 15:07:36 <GeneralAntilles> Since at least last year, mysc.
May 20 15:07:42 <RST38h> sparr: buy a nokia phone
May 20 15:07:49 <K-Fox2> when n900 is out?
May 20 15:07:51 <mysc> GA, i thought it was ppl thinking the wimax was the 900 :)
May 20 15:07:52 <KotCzarny> rst: or psp?
May 20 15:07:53 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:08:00 <RST38h> pupnik: which is a delicate way to say "doomed to failure" :)
May 20 15:08:01 <GeneralAntilles> No, mysc.
May 20 15:08:08 <RST38h> Kot: PSP is way too closed
May 20 15:08:10 <johnx> K-Fox2, everytime you ask it gets delayed by a year
May 20 15:08:15 <qwerty12> PSP pwns for games. I'd use mine more if the joystick wasn't broken.
May 20 15:08:22 <KotCzarny> rst: but has commercial, dedicated games
May 20 15:08:23 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:08:25 <GeneralAntilles> It has always been clear that the WiMAX tablet was just going to be an existing tablet with WiMAX
May 20 15:08:28 <mysc> have any of you played with installing ubuntu on the n8x0?
May 20 15:08:39 <pupnik> RST38h: financially it is quite risky, yes.
May 20 15:08:41 <johnx> mysc, no. just debian.
May 20 15:08:43 <GeneralAntilles> Except, maybe, to some idiots who made a stupid article about Nokia's "iPhone Killer"
May 20 15:08:44 <RST38h> Kot: At $50+ a pop, they will have to find somebody else to buy it
May 20 15:09:00 <qwerty12> m33
May 20 15:09:05 * qwerty12 walks away...
May 20 15:09:12 <mysc> johnx, heard of the mojo group?
May 20 15:09:14 <RST38h> Kot: Albeit in Moscow you can easily buy a hacked PSP
May 20 15:09:22 <KotCzarny> rst: any games you can get for n8x0 ?
May 20 15:09:22 <johnx> mysc, yeah.
May 20 15:09:32 <sparr_> RST38h: i really don't want all the hoopla in a phone
May 20 15:09:46 <RST38h> Kot: yea, I have got some
May 20 15:10:07 * RST38h does not play fancy 3d stuff anyway so psp isn't very important for him
May 20 15:10:13 <sparr_> KotCzarny: "commercial dedicated games" are overrated.  ill take my gp2x with 20000 snes/nes/sms/genesis/neogeo games on it over a nds with a few dozen "commercial dedicated games"
May 20 15:10:17 <RST38h> Less important than ability to run gcc
May 20 15:10:28 <hrw> mysc: the problem with non-maemo systems is that they have to rely on maemo anyway
May 20 15:10:29 <KotCzarny> gp2x: 20000 games are stolen
May 20 15:10:31 <KotCzarny> :>
May 20 15:10:35 <mysc> johnx, do you have an 800 or 810?
May 20 15:10:40 <johnx> n800
May 20 15:10:51 <mysc> hrw, yes and no...nokia is incorporating qt in addition to hildon.
May 20 15:10:51 <sparr_> let's not have a discussion about abadonware.  to each their own.
May 20 15:11:17 <KotCzarny> there is no such thing as abandonware (law wise)
May 20 15:11:24 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:11:35 <mysc> johnx, would you consider the n810 or paying double for bad gps is not worth it :)
May 20 15:11:37 <hrw> mysc: show me non-maemo distro for n8x0 which will have working wifi, bt, sound, battery and will not use components from maemo
May 20 15:11:40 <RST38h> KILL, my little lawyers, KILL!
May 20 15:11:47 * qwerty12 is dreaming but I would like to try rockbox on my N800. Need something that feels like a proper mp3 player (except canola)
May 20 15:11:59 <johnx> mysc, it depends on how much you want a built in keyboard and a sunlight viewable screen
May 20 15:12:15 <pupnik> just did some xterm in full sunlight
May 20 15:12:24 <pupnik> with backlight all the way down - amazingly good
May 20 15:12:27 <hrw> mysc: I bought n810 because it has hw keyboard.
May 20 15:12:40 <RST38h> hrw: a mediocre keyboard
May 20 15:12:44 <KotCzarny> yeah, the screen i could fall for
May 20 15:12:47 <mysc> the kb is nice, but to be honest, i rather plug in a usb kb or a bt kb
May 20 15:12:47 <hrw> RST38h: but keyboard
May 20 15:12:54 <RST38h> E70 phone has better keyboard then N810
May 20 15:13:14 <hrw> RST38h: but is not armv6 linux powered device?
May 20 15:13:14 <qwerty12> http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/e70_tot8.jpg
May 20 15:13:20 <sparr_> KotCzarny: not entirely true...  some copyrights are truly abandoned, the entities that held them having ceased to exist without transferring them.  but, that point aside, if a company is not willing to sell me their software, then i have no problem "stealing" it
May 20 15:13:34 <mysc> if you're gonna do serious typing the hw kb on 810 is not good. if you're not then the on screen is enough
May 20 15:13:36 <RST38h> hrw: it is symbian
May 20 15:13:37 <KotCzarny> yeah, e70
May 20 15:13:41 <KotCzarny> but 5510 was first
May 20 15:13:42 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 20 15:14:13 <johnx> mysc, if you want to use IM or IRC the onscreen keyboard is annoying
May 20 15:14:14 <RST38h> Kot: true, but no programmable platform
May 20 15:14:27 <KotCzarny> rst: not true
May 20 15:14:38 <qwerty12> Java isn't really great on S40 phones.
May 20 15:14:51 <patoh> and s40 phones love to crash
May 20 15:14:53 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, it's not that bad. :P
May 20 15:14:54 <KotCzarny> rst: http://nokix.pasjagsm.pl/?type=intro&lang=en
May 20 15:15:10 <glass> on midp2(and midp1) textboxes etc gui building is pretty primitive
May 20 15:15:11 <mysc> johnx, it doesn't justify the $200+ though
May 20 15:15:16 <KotCzarny> rexx on 5510
May 20 15:15:17 <glass> hard to make good looking/feeling stuff
May 20 15:15:21 <KotCzarny> (and few others ;)
May 20 15:15:34 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, the bad part isn't typing, it's that it takes over the whole screen
May 20 15:15:39 <RST38h> urgh
May 20 15:15:41 <RST38h> Rexx.
May 20 15:15:42 <hrw> mysc: to tell the truth none of nokia tablets is fine device
May 20 15:15:44 <RST38h> Java.
May 20 15:15:51 <qwerty12> java sucks.
May 20 15:15:57 <johnx> mysc, right. so the N800 would be better for you then
May 20 15:15:59 <RST38h> sucks moose balls
May 20 15:16:08 <hrw> each of them has ugly parts but also each has some good parts (except 770 which has only one)
May 20 15:16:20 <mysc> johnx, yeah, i mean ima gonna irc from it, i'll just use one of those nice igo bt kb's
May 20 15:16:24 <qwerty12> lol, "Warning Maybe NSFW => Naked RX-48"
May 20 15:16:40 <KotCzarny> mysc: be aware that bt kb is laggy
May 20 15:16:46 <sparr_> RST38h: is this the case you think is ugly?  http://openpandora.org/bigone.jpg
May 20 15:16:47 <KotCzarny> on my n800 at least
May 20 15:16:49 <johnx> mysc, that will work fine as long as you're sitting somewhere
May 20 15:17:01 <GeneralAntilles> Just gotta type faster, johnx. :P
May 20 15:17:01 <mysc> yeah, laggy and also can fall prey to timing attacks
May 20 15:17:08 <GeneralAntilles> Spend as little time there as possible. ;)
May 20 15:17:08 <hrw> bye
May 20 15:17:21 <KotCzarny> hmm
May 20 15:17:36 <KotCzarny> that pandora box will be a hand killer
May 20 15:17:49 <KotCzarny> with those sharp corners sticking into palms
May 20 15:17:55 <mysc> are there any other cheap linux-on-pda alternatives?
May 20 15:18:08 <KotCzarny> mysc: zaurus?
May 20 15:18:09 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:18:15 <mysc> is that sharp?
May 20 15:18:17 <qwerty12> Is there any other port of doom rather than INdT's one?
May 20 15:18:19 <sparr_> KotCzarny: you never spent 8 hours with a NES controller in your hand did you?
May 20 15:18:19 <KotCzarny> probably
May 20 15:18:26 <KotCzarny> sparr: nope
May 20 15:18:30 <johnx> yeah. it's also discontinued
May 20 15:18:39 <sparr_> those "sharp" corners don't really matter
May 20 15:18:40 <mysc> ah, smallish screen, right?
May 20 15:18:47 <KotCzarny> sparr: not true
May 20 15:19:03 <johnx> sparr_, the render has *really* sharp looking corners
May 20 15:19:14 <sparr_> johnx: the one i just linked?
May 20 15:19:20 <johnx> sp3000, yes. I doubt they'll do that for the real product of course
May 20 15:19:21 <mysc> i shoulda gotten an n800 when the prices hit bottom some weeks ago...instead got an 810 and now the 800s have gone back up in price
May 20 15:20:09 <johnx> the zaurus screen isn't that small...but it is smaller than the n800/n810
May 20 15:20:47 <johnx> sparr, look at the edges on the left and right side of the keyboard where they curve up to a knife edge
May 20 15:20:59 <KotCzarny> http://www.dcemu.co.uk/dcemupandora.jpg
May 20 15:21:10 <sparr> johnx: ahh
May 20 15:21:28 <qwerty12> eww. looks ugly :/. Seeing dcemu reminds me of my dreamcast :(
May 20 15:21:34 <sparr> that render is old
May 20 15:21:40 <sparr> KotCzarny: ^^
May 20 15:21:42 * johnx misses his dreamcast :/
May 20 15:21:47 <sparr> johnx: they should probably curve them more, youre right.
May 20 15:21:53 <KotCzarny> but gives some impression about possibilities
May 20 15:22:09 <johnx> sparr, I'm sure they will for the actual production
May 20 15:22:12 <KotCzarny> newer render has sharper edges
May 20 15:22:28 <sparr> newer render has better keyboard
May 20 15:22:31 <KotCzarny> some rubber could fix it though
May 20 15:22:48 <sparr> the neat thing about sharp corners on a prototype...  they can be fixed without fancy tools  :)
May 20 15:23:10 <mysc> can any of you do a screenshot of an xterm on an n800 with the onscreen kb on? (both the full finger and the small one made for the stylus)?
May 20 15:23:12 <johnx> yeah, just a file and 20 minutes :)
May 20 15:23:32 <KotCzarny> johnx: or a can of silicone
May 20 15:23:33 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:23:40 <johnx> mysc, well the fullscreen keyboard looks the same in all apps
May 20 15:23:44 <GeneralAntilles> ^
May 20 15:23:51 <GeneralAntilles> Exactly the same as the screenshot I gave you before. :P
May 20 15:23:57 <mysc> johnx, about 50% of the screen?
May 20 15:24:01 <sparr> mysc: on my 770 i preferred to use the terminal with the transparent keyboard
May 20 15:24:13 <qwerty12> mysc, full finger looks same everywhere
May 20 15:24:15 <johnx> mysc, the fullscreen keyboard takes *the whole screen*
May 20 15:24:16 <KotCzarny> 770 had a transparent osk?
May 20 15:24:26 <qwerty12> There was xterm build
May 20 15:24:35 <KotCzarny> hmm hmm
May 20 15:24:37 <mysc> whole screen? eek
May 20 15:24:39 <johnx> thus "full" "screen" "keyboard"
May 20 15:24:45 <GeneralAntilles> mysc, http://www.sense-datum.org/tim/images/xterm.jpg
May 20 15:24:51 <mysc> is the small kb the same as the 810's about 40-45% of screen?
May 20 15:24:51 <GeneralAntilles> mysc, you saw my screenshot. . . .
May 20 15:25:02 <qwerty12> OWW. Bad colour scheme.
May 20 15:25:07 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemofingerkeyboard.jpg
May 20 15:25:23 <sparr> http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/download/maemo/xterm/xterm-screenshot-1.png
May 20 15:25:26 * KotCzarny hates black-on-white 
May 20 15:25:32 <mysc> GA, ah nice. that's the small kb, like the 810s. yours GA was bigger and transparent
May 20 15:25:42 <qwerty12> sparr, nice
May 20 15:25:43 <GeneralAntilles> Not transparent.
May 20 15:25:45 <sparr> that's translucent, it has a mode where the keys are invisible, just letters
May 20 15:26:23 <mysc> do you have to patch xterm for this functionality?
May 20 15:26:25 <sparr> i liked that one because the keyboard could be hidden/unhidden/moved without affecting the size/shape of the terminal window
May 20 15:26:37 <KotCzarny> sparr: try xvkbd
May 20 15:26:38 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:26:49 <qwerty12> The source is available. Anyone want to integrate it into the current xterm?
May 20 15:26:54 <KotCzarny> i have to add enter for hildonized apps though :/
May 20 15:28:08 <mysc> do you have a garage for this Kot?
May 20 15:28:19 <KotCzarny> mysc: yes, on my laptop
May 20 15:28:20 <KotCzarny> hehe
May 20 15:28:21 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:28:22 <mysc> hah
May 20 15:28:53 <mysc> so what's the best translucent virt kb that'll work on the latest set of apps (os 08) ?
May 20 15:28:56 <KotCzarny> mysc: try googling for n800 xvkbd
May 20 15:30:13 <mysc> oh one pet peeve: if i input using handwriting in xterm i can't do words... so "hello" quickly yields "hhehelhellhello"
May 20 15:32:04 <mysc> sparr, is the one you showed out for os2008?
May 20 15:32:35 <sparr> i dont think so
May 20 15:32:59 <qwerty12> Source is there though. Anyone willing to add it into current xterm? I may try and fail sometime.
May 20 15:34:15 <KotCzarny> qwerty: link?
May 20 15:34:24 <johnx> Khertan, installing mcalendar right now :)
May 20 15:34:48 <qwerty12> http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/download/maemo/xterm/
May 20 15:35:46 <qwerty12> Keyboard is just python program, my guess xterm runs it on opening.
May 20 15:36:13 <KotCzarny> i'm interested in transluency
May 20 15:36:27 <mysc> can you go back to standard kb after installing that qwerty?
May 20 15:37:03 <qwerty12> mysc, You should be able to, just install libvte and osso-xterm from the svn.
May 20 15:37:18 <Khertan> argggg g!!! g!gg! !g g!g still looking why my icon isn't show in the taskbar !
May 20 15:37:39 <mysc> i meant on the fly flipping between kb styles
May 20 15:38:00 <qwerty12> No idea, that isn't even for OS2008 anyway.
May 20 15:38:07 <qwerty12> I've never had a 770 to try it on.
May 20 15:38:09 <patoh> Away
May 20 15:38:12 <patoh> oops
May 20 15:38:14 <Khertan> someone know if their is somewhere a thing where i can get error on a .desktop at launch or other things like .services
May 20 15:38:24 <Khertan> s/error/error log
May 20 15:38:50 <qwerty12> Maybe launch the program with dbus-send, but not sure on how to do it.
May 20 15:38:58 <johnx> Khertan, I guess I'm missing sqlite for python. Any idea where to get it?
May 20 15:39:00 <mysc> hrmmm, i guess you could become a pro with thumb typing on the stylus kb :)
May 20 15:39:16 <GeneralAntilles> It's not bad, actually, mysc.
May 20 15:39:29 <johnx> I guess my thumbs are too big :/
May 20 15:39:29 <mysc> just have to file away the sides of your thumbs with some sandpaper  :>
May 20 15:39:44 <GeneralAntilles> Use the tips of your thumbs
May 20 15:39:53 <GeneralAntilles>  /nail
May 20 15:39:56 <KotCzarny> johnx, stick something to your thumbs
May 20 15:40:03 <GeneralAntilles> Pads don't work for that. ;)
May 20 15:40:13 <KotCzarny> maybe thinble?
May 20 15:40:17 <KotCzarny> thimble
May 20 15:40:20 <mysc> hah
May 20 15:40:36 <johnx> I'll stick to using the fullscreen keyboard...
May 20 15:40:41 <mysc> the new market for thimbles, old women who sew and young geeks who irc on n800  :>
May 20 15:40:49 * qwerty12 never uses fullscreen keyboard
May 20 15:40:58 <johnx> I'll just keep irc'ing on the zaurus :P
May 20 15:41:06 <GeneralAntilles> Why, qwerty?
May 20 15:41:12 <GeneralAntilles> The fullscreen keyboard is great.
May 20 15:41:14 <Khertan> johnx > it s not in the python2.5-runtime ?
May 20 15:41:21 <mysc> johnx, what zaurus do you have and what linux is on it?
May 20 15:41:23 <KotCzarny> full laptop keyboard is great
May 20 15:41:24 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:41:25 <Khertan> oups ... so it seems i should add some depandancy ...
May 20 15:41:32 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, Because I prefer to see the program and I'm too used to the small keyboard now.
May 20 15:41:37 <johnx> mysc, C1000 w/ angstrom on SD and Debian on USB
May 20 15:41:48 <johnx> Khertan, one sec
May 20 15:42:04 <mysc> do they still sell the zaurus' ?
May 20 15:42:13 <johnx> they don't make it
May 20 15:42:22 <johnx> I think you can find leftover stock or a used model
May 20 15:43:06 <Khertan> johnx : http://david.hautbois.free.fr/joomla/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=28&func=fileinfo&id=5
May 20 15:43:14 <mysc> johnx how does it compare to nokia
May 20 15:43:26 <Khertan> mysc > no integrated wifi
May 20 15:43:39 <Khertan> and using an card sucks battery power
May 20 15:43:47 <Khertan> it s the main differences for me
May 20 15:43:49 <johnx> mysc, nice keyboard, good open source linux support, but half the RAM, half the flash, slower CPU, less idle time
May 20 15:44:07 <johnx> the formfactor is nice and solid
May 20 15:44:18 <mysc> ah, i see.
May 20 15:44:19 <johnx> the lack of built in wifi and bluetooth is kind of a PITA though
May 20 15:44:35 <mysc> what do you need a usb->wifi adaptor?
May 20 15:44:51 <johnx> compactflash wifi is the only reasonable way
May 20 15:44:58 <johnx> usb wifi would need a powered hub
May 20 15:45:08 <KotCzarny> and a lot of power
May 20 15:45:09 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:45:22 <johnx> eh...not *a lot*
May 20 15:45:35 <johnx> just 2 nimh AAs would be fine I think
May 20 15:45:41 <KotCzarny> i have yet to see a card with lower than 500mA spec
May 20 15:46:01 <johnx> but they don't use that *all the time*
May 20 15:46:11 <KotCzarny> probably
May 20 15:46:24 <KotCzarny> but it won't be 100mA too
May 20 15:46:32 <johnx> well of course not
May 20 15:47:52 <johnx> hmm...maybe 4 AAs would be better...anyways the point is, once you involve an external hub it's not really mobile any more
May 20 15:48:28 <KotCzarny> johnx: backpack
May 20 15:48:29 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:48:40 <mysc> so you all would not hesistate to recommend the 800? cause i am having trouble justifying a higher pricetag on the n810
May 20 15:49:01 <johnx> yeah, just toss a couple car batteries back there, run some low guage wire up over your back...
May 20 15:49:09 <KotCzarny> johnx: yup
May 20 15:49:10 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:49:18 <Khertan> johnx> pysqlite for maemo : http://tinyurl.com/5rms6w
May 20 15:49:19 <KotCzarny> weeks of fun
May 20 15:49:20 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:49:24 <johnx> Khertan, thanks
May 20 15:49:52 <johnx> Khertan, you might want to add that as a dependency, then :)
May 20 15:49:57 <Khertan> this is the one build by Tahitibob ...
May 20 15:50:03 <Khertan> yes i ll do it ...
May 20 15:50:34 <Khertan> first report :)
May 20 15:50:34 <unixSnob> Any Australians or Belgians in here?
May 20 15:50:48 * unixSnob would like to know if Australia or Belgium have per diem for traveling contractors
May 20 15:50:48 <johnx> mysc, what do you want it for? hacking around in linux? web surfing? PIM?
May 20 15:50:52 <Khertan> what the link between Australians and Belgian ?
May 20 15:51:22 <unixSnob> khertan - no link.. I may work in either of those countries soon
May 20 15:51:51 <KotCzarny> they lie on the opposite ends of earth?
May 20 15:51:52 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 15:51:59 <Khertan> mysc> zaurus is better for one thing : wifi packet sniffing ...
May 20 15:52:05 <qwerty12> That's a link? :/
May 20 15:52:12 <mysc> johnx, hacking around linux, irc, occasional webmail
May 20 15:52:21 <unixSnob> yeah, I live right between them
May 20 15:52:25 <mysc> Khertan, i don't want to sniff wifi or inject  :P
May 20 15:52:39 <johnx> mysc, an n800 will work well for you I think :)
May 20 15:52:46 <johnx> Khertan, kismet runs fine on my n800...
May 20 15:52:48 <Khertan> i hope as inject level 4 packet isn't possible
May 20 15:52:55 <unixSnob> although there are some connections between Australia and the UK
May 20 15:53:23 <qwerty12> Well, I believe it is our Queen that is the Queen there?
May 20 15:53:44 <Khertan> johnx > yes ... it can scan network ... but channel hopping kill the network, and injecting doesn't work very well
May 20 15:54:05 <johnx> Khertan, it doesn't as long as wlancond isn't running I think
May 20 15:54:08 <mysc> johnx, thanks. cheers
May 20 15:54:32 <johnx> Khertan, It's not a hardware or driver problem I think
May 20 15:56:45 <KotCzarny> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/multimedia/2008/04/gallery_DandDStats
May 20 15:56:46 <KotCzarny> o.o
May 20 15:57:19 <qwerty12> More like ( . )( . ) :p
May 20 15:57:23 <Khertan> johnx> it s a driver problem wich doesn't accept it ... and we can make an other one without specs :)
May 20 15:57:56 <Khertan>  s/wich/which
May 20 15:58:09 <Khertan> s/can/can't
May 20 15:58:11 <johnx> Khertan, I can channel hop with kismet while collecting packets for >1 hour without problems
May 20 15:58:24 <qwerty12> Do we have uinput module on N800?
May 20 15:58:39 <johnx> this is while booted into Debian...but it's the same driver
May 20 15:58:49 <Khertan> hum? serious ?
May 20 15:58:53 <johnx> Khertan, yeah
May 20 15:59:06 <Khertan> oh ... interesting ...
May 20 15:59:14 <Khertan> so it s not a driver problem ...
May 20 15:59:19 <johnx> I don't think it is
May 20 15:59:23 <johnx> maybe I was just lucky
May 20 15:59:28 <johnx> I'd put my money on wlancond though
May 20 15:59:34 <Khertan> me too now
May 20 15:59:35 <johnx> it seems to tweak lots of wifi stuff
May 20 15:59:57 <johnx> I'll try it again right now to make sure I'm not lying to you
May 20 15:59:57 <Khertan> and injecting packet work ?
May 20 16:00:04 <johnx> nope
May 20 16:00:06 <johnx> of course not
May 20 16:00:08 <Khertan> arg :(
May 20 16:00:15 <johnx> that's just not avaiable in the drivers at all
May 20 16:00:59 <qwerty12> fook, CONFIG_INPUT_UINPUT isn't available in my kernel source too :/
May 20 16:01:30 <Khertan> Ook ?
May 20 16:01:43 <qwerty12> s/fook/fuck then :/
May 20 16:01:45 <infobot> qwerty12 meant: fuck then :, CONFIG_INPUT_UINPUT isn't available in my kernel source too :/
May 20 16:02:02 <qwerty12> infobot, no i didn't but nice try.
May 20 16:02:44 <Khertan> Ooook ..?
May 20 16:03:54 * qwerty12 didn't know that google translate does Suomi translation too :/
May 20 16:04:29 <KotCzarny> you wouldn't know if it does it right
May 20 16:04:36 <KotCzarny> or if it just plays a joke on you
May 20 16:04:37 <KotCzarny> :>
May 20 16:04:42 <qwerty12> Meh, it's the best I can rely on :p
May 20 16:05:00 <Khertan> oOok ? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Librarian_%28Discworld%29)
May 20 16:05:14 <qwerty12> WTF http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Librarian_(Discworld).jpg
May 20 16:05:32 <KotCzarny> qwerty: you have never read discworld novels?
May 20 16:05:38 <KotCzarny> what a pity
May 20 16:05:39 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 16:05:41 <qwerty12> If my librarian looked like that, i'd throw the books on his face.
May 20 16:05:45 <qwerty12> Don't like them :/
May 20 16:05:55 <Khertan> The Librarian of Unseen University :)
May 20 16:05:55 <KotCzarny> read colour of magic
May 20 16:05:56 <KotCzarny> :>
May 20 16:06:07 <Khertan> if u have this one near u let me know
May 20 16:06:15 <KotCzarny> first ones are the best
May 20 16:07:14 <Khertan> 	Men at Arms is a good one too
May 20 16:07:23 <KotCzarny> nah
May 20 16:07:39 <qwerty12> I'll er, take your words for it
May 20 16:07:41 <Khertan> SI
May 20 16:08:04 <mysc> the n800 uses standard sdhc size right?
May 20 16:08:12 <KotCzarny> yes
May 20 16:08:21 <KotCzarny> sd and mmc would work too
May 20 16:08:36 <mysc> but over 2gig its sdhc, right?
May 20 16:08:46 <KotCzarny> not necessarily
May 20 16:08:48 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 16:08:48 <Khertan> but i ve never see mmchc ...
May 20 16:08:56 <Khertan> 4go can be sd ...
May 20 16:09:00 <Khertan> and not sdhc
May 20 16:09:01 <mysc> does it come with any already installed like the n810?
May 20 16:09:11 <KotCzarny> ?
May 20 16:09:17 <Khertan> yes a 64Mb if i remember well
May 20 16:09:21 <qwerty12> 128MB
May 20 16:09:21 <Khertan> sd
May 20 16:09:23 <Khertan> ;)
May 20 16:09:28 <KotCzarny> mine had 128mb sd
May 20 16:09:33 <qwerty12> same here
May 20 16:09:34 <KotCzarny> never used it
May 20 16:09:42 <Khertan> so 64Mb should be my Nokia Phone
May 20 16:09:43 <Khertan> ;)
May 20 16:09:44 <KotCzarny> it's pins are virgin ;)
May 20 16:11:26 <Khertan> what s the link between this : 	Egyptian mythology, quantum physics, Greek philosophy (including Zeno's paradoxes), United Kingdom driving test[7]
May 20 16:11:34 <Khertan> ?
May 20 16:11:40 <Khertan> :)
May 20 16:11:47 <qwerty12> They all have letters in those words?
May 20 16:12:16 <mysc> they're all subjects you should _not_ be thinking about whilst driving
May 20 16:12:25 <Khertan> Pyramids (7th tome of the DiscWorld)
May 20 16:12:54 <qwerty12> When I apply for my provisional in the UK, I won't be thinking about DiscWorld ;)
May 20 16:13:46 <johnx> that's what you say now...but then it'll just pop into your head
May 20 16:14:06 <qwerty12> Of course, I always have DiscWorld on my mind :/
May 20 16:14:20 <qwerty12> My teacher in my last school tried getting me to read the colours one.
May 20 16:15:07 <KotCzarny> as i said, the firstest is teh bestest ;)
May 20 16:15:49 <Khertan> johnx > do u have installed pysqlite ?
May 20 16:16:09 <Khertan> if you make an import sqlite3 in python ... does modules exists ?
May 20 16:16:15 <johnx> yeah...then I booted into debian to test kismet again :)
May 20 16:16:31 <Khertan> (only relevant if u haven't install sqlite)
May 20 16:17:03 <Khertan> someone with an ipython shell can give me the result of : import sqlite3
May 20 16:17:11 <Khertan> print sqlite3.version
May 20 16:17:17 <Khertan> on chinook ?
May 20 16:17:38 <Khertan> (it seems that sqlite3 is in the python runtime)
May 20 16:18:44 <Khertan> http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ don't work ?
May 20 16:18:55 <Navi> gronmayer is broken
May 20 16:19:02 <qwerty12> Am I right in assuming I can safely delete the /usr/include folder off my tablet?
May 20 16:19:07 <mysc> john, you can boot into vanilla debian on you n800?
May 20 16:19:44 <johnx> mysc, it's a little less than vanilla
May 20 16:19:51 <johnx> there's a hint of almond
May 20 16:20:06 <johnx> but yes
May 20 16:20:16 <mysc> hah
May 20 16:20:20 <qwerty12> with chocolate. HOW COULD YOU FORGET THE CHOCOLATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 20 16:20:21 <qwerty12> :p
May 20 16:20:22 <mysc> any url?
May 20 16:20:35 <johnx> http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian
May 20 16:21:05 <KotCzarny> vanilla chocolate?
May 20 16:21:08 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 16:21:19 <mysc> sweet. any benefits to it?
May 20 16:21:28 <mysc> aside from a broken openssl :)
May 20 16:21:35 <KotCzarny> :>
May 20 16:21:55 <johnx> uhm, your choice of 10,000 packages ready to install?
May 20 16:22:24 <mysc> there are arm-compiled packages already sitting there?
May 20 16:22:47 <KotCzarny> dependency hell fun?
May 20 16:23:04 <Navi> mysc, yeah
May 20 16:23:12 <johnx> KotCzarny, hmm?
May 20 16:23:12 <Navi> debian's autobuilder took care of that
May 20 16:23:25 <mysc> sweet.
May 20 16:23:38 <johnx> mysc, hit packages.debian.org and search for your favorites. Select "armel" distribution
May 20 16:23:41 <Navi> They have packages like Warsow on there too
May 20 16:23:44 <mysc> hey, can you plot the debian in a card and have a dual-boot kind of setup?
May 20 16:23:52 <mysc> plot=plop
May 20 16:23:58 <johnx> that's the only way to do it at present
May 20 16:24:20 <Navi> it's much too big to not do it anyways
May 20 16:24:34 <johnx> you just install fanoush's bootmenu and then untar a starter tarball onto an SD card
May 20 16:24:36 <mysc> what about things like the virtual kb, etc?
May 20 16:24:45 <johnx> there's a different one
May 20 16:24:50 <johnx> matchbox-keyboard
May 20 16:24:50 <Navi> matchbox-keyboard is preinstalled
May 20 16:24:52 <johnx> it's not as nice
May 20 16:25:31 <mysc> hrmmm, this is pretty neat. so you keep os2008 on your flash and you nuked debian onto a card?
May 20 16:25:57 <johnx> yup
May 20 16:26:06 <johnx> just reboot and select from the bootmenu
May 20 16:26:24 <johnx> or you can keep debian on the card and chroot into it from os2008 if you want
May 20 16:26:25 * KotCzarny has os2008 on a flash and os2008 on a sd card
May 20 16:26:29 <mysc> sweet. and then when ubuntu comes out you can nuke another card and hotswap os's
May 20 16:26:35 <KotCzarny> johnx: kexec ?:)
May 20 16:26:39 <Navi> >_>
May 20 16:26:41 <mysc> or coldswap i guess...
May 20 16:26:45 <johnx> KotCzarny, you could if you want
May 20 16:26:53 <KotCzarny> johnx: why?
May 20 16:27:08 <qwerty12> Does kexec work?
May 20 16:27:10 <johnx> KotCzarny, you're asking me why you want to do something?
May 20 16:27:17 <KotCzarny> sorry, it's late
May 20 16:27:18 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 16:27:27 <johnx> mysc, I still don't see the point in ubuntu though...
May 20 16:27:45 <mysc> hrmm, this is a different concept of chroot jails than i'm used to, can you expand?
May 20 16:28:10 <johnx> well it's like a chroot jail except there's a whole system in there and you can run whatever you want
May 20 16:28:32 <mysc> but with the os2008 overhead?
May 20 16:28:43 <johnx> yeah
May 20 16:28:51 <unixSnob> Why would chmod fail to work, yet not show any errors?
May 20 16:29:11 <mysc> that sounds a lot less efficient than booting directly off the card
May 20 16:29:13 <unixSnob> I ran chmod both as root and as a user, and it did not change the permissions
May 20 16:29:19 <johnx> mysc, I don't really chroot into debian from os2008...but some people seem to love it for some reason
May 20 16:29:34 <qwerty12> unixSnob, Welcome to the feeling :(. My ~ is still messed up.
May 20 16:29:39 <mysc> what size card do you recommend john?
May 20 16:29:56 <GeneralAntilles> unixSnob, FAT?
May 20 16:30:10 <mysc> would you get 4gb int and 4gb ext?
May 20 16:30:20 <unixSnob> I think it is fat.. guess that would explain it
May 20 16:30:32 * qwerty12 has 8gb internal and 1gb external
May 20 16:30:41 <unixSnob> hmm, on second thought, I'm uncertain
May 20 16:30:48 <GeneralAntilles> mysc, 8gb is the sweet spot right now.
May 20 16:30:51 <johnx> mysc, yeah, I'd probably choose two 4GB over one 8GB
May 20 16:30:57 <unixSnob> My windows box read the SD card, but then I also have ext2fs installed on the windows box
May 20 16:30:57 <KotCzarny> hmm
May 20 16:31:16 <Khertan> so .... go ... see u later
May 20 16:31:27 <KotCzarny> one big card is better future wise
May 20 16:31:28 <mysc> can a debian install (with X and programming stuff) fir on 4gb these days?
May 20 16:31:28 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 16:31:36 <Navi> mysc, yes :P
May 20 16:31:44 <Navi> 4GB is a lot of space
May 20 16:31:59 <mysc> Navi, you have a to ask, these newbie linux distribs install like 6GB off thebat
May 20 16:31:59 <KotCzarny> maemo-mapper 1.7gb, cloned os 0.5-1gb
May 20 16:32:04 <mysc> :)
May 20 16:32:18 <johnx> mysc, mine is still around 1GB
May 20 16:32:22 <Navi> Pfft, fook dat sheet
May 20 16:32:24 <KotCzarny> some mp3 0.1-500gb
May 20 16:32:26 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 16:33:11 <mysc> john, with X and standard bells & whistles?
May 20 16:33:48 <johnx> with a nice comfie xfce desktop and a browser
May 20 16:34:15 <johnx> it's closer to 1.5GB now that I've been playing around though
May 20 16:34:41 <mysc> firefox?
May 20 16:34:51 <johnx> v2 had some issues with ARM
May 20 16:35:01 <johnx> v3 has yet to be compiled by the debian guys for ARM
May 20 16:35:05 <johnx> I think
May 20 16:35:13 <mysc> so what browser do you use?
May 20 16:35:19 <johnx> epiphany-webkit
May 20 16:35:23 <unixSnob> how does one find out what filesystem has been mounted?
May 20 16:35:29 <mysc> ok. did you upgrade your libssl?
May 20 16:35:31 <johnx> on unix?
May 20 16:35:33 <johnx> mount
May 20 16:35:40 <johnx> mysc, of course O_o
May 20 16:35:44 <mysc> yeah, mount
May 20 16:35:50 <johnx> the one in the tarball might be old still
May 20 16:35:53 <Navi> I've got 150MB left on my 1GB card
May 20 16:36:03 <mysc> the 5/14/08 tarball?
May 20 16:36:10 <johnx> yeah
May 20 16:36:19 <mysc> but then you just upgrade off the bat, right?
May 20 16:36:25 <johnx> yeah
May 20 16:36:43 <mysc> ok, no problem, i'll just not generate any keys or ssh anywhere until i upgrade
May 20 16:37:10 <johnx> yup...you can add a warning to the wiki if you feel like it too :)
May 20 16:37:13 <mysc> now i have to learn debians package management...slackware monkey here  :)
May 20 16:37:18 <johnx> aaah
May 20 16:37:32 <johnx> apt is nice and friendly, I promise
May 20 16:37:39 <wnd> most of the time
May 20 16:37:48 <mysc> yes, i've heard great things about apt.
May 20 16:38:03 <unixSnob> thanks johnx and GeneralAntilles... I have vfat, which must be why I can't change permissions
May 20 16:38:03 <johnx> actually making your own .debs is kind of a pain
May 20 16:38:10 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 20 16:38:23 <mysc> it's always been wget; tar -xzvf; ./configure; make for me though
May 20 16:38:30 <mysc> hope the learning curve isn't too steep
May 20 16:38:44 <johnx> I prefer to let something else handle my dependencies
May 20 16:38:44 <KotCzarny> in slackware it's a make install && makepkg
May 20 16:38:44 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 16:39:13 <johnx> and building things from scratch on ARM would be a ridiculous waste of time if someone else has already done it for you
May 20 16:39:35 <gpd> can anyone confirm that using BT to a phone with HSDPA and tethering the N800 is classified as 'using the phone as a modem' - therefore causing O2 to charge me 3 GBP per Mb rather than Free if on the phone directly?
May 20 16:39:37 <Navi> bleh, I can't stand APT
May 20 16:39:47 <simboss> ayone there for a stupid question on pymamemo + urllib2 ? :-)
May 20 16:39:48 <Navi> aptitude makes it a bit more bearable
May 20 16:40:19 <KotCzarny> gpd: that's a question for a local lawyer
May 20 16:40:20 <KotCzarny> :>
May 20 16:40:25 * qwerty12 uses apt-get and dpkg only :/
May 20 16:40:29 <mysc> johnx, i'll be playing with making my debian card later one. so help along the way would be much appreciated.
May 20 16:40:55 <mysc> later on
May 20 16:41:06 <johnx> uhm sure, but it's pretty simple to get started :) just tar jxvf foo.tar.bz2
May 20 16:41:22 <gpd> I can't get a straight answer from o2 - hoped someone here does it.
May 20 16:41:41 <johnx> gpd, that sounds a lot like "using the phone as a modem"
May 20 16:41:59 <qwerty12> Same here, but I'm on Orange UK so I'm not really sure about 02 - UK.
May 20 16:42:01 <johnx> I would say O2 could claim that's what you are doing and it would be difficult to argue
May 20 16:42:09 <mysc> how do you get the tarball onto the card in the first place?
May 20 16:42:21 <gpd> a while ago someone mentioned that thetherining to HSDPA goes under the radar somehow... ie not a modem - but a direct link? feasible - or nonsense?
May 20 16:42:28 <johnx> you uhm...download it
May 20 16:42:33 <johnx> or use a card reader on your PC
May 20 16:43:12 <johnx> gpd, ah...so you want to know whether they'll catch you or not? :P
May 20 16:43:22 <mysc> no card reader :(
May 20 16:43:32 <gpd> johnx: :)
May 20 16:43:43 <johnx> mysc, just plug the n800 into your desktop with usb. instant card reader :)
May 20 16:43:50 <mysc> h0h0
May 20 16:44:18 <mysc> and from slack ima just mkfs?
May 20 16:44:26 <johnx> yeah
May 20 16:44:47 <johnx> or do it on the tablet itself
May 20 16:44:48 <mysc> i need to make sure i get the device names right, don't wanna fry my flash
May 20 16:45:04 <KotCzarny> just check the sizes
May 20 16:45:04 <qwerty12> Flash would be /
May 20 16:45:05 <KotCzarny> :)
May 20 16:45:08 <johnx> you can't access flash through USB
May 20 16:45:12 <KotCzarny> with df or cfdisk
May 20 16:45:18 <johnx> or the NAND where the OS lives
May 20 16:45:33 <johnx> s/or//
May 20 16:45:33 <infobot> johnx meant:  the NAND where the OS lives
May 20 16:45:44 <mysc> OK. i presume you put the debian on the ext card?
May 20 16:48:17 <johnx> or the int card
May 20 16:48:27 <mysc> ima psyched now. gonna go get my 800. bbl.
May 20 16:48:53 <mysc> great chat, will report tonight hopefully with xfce on board.
May 20 16:49:05 <johnx> sounds good
May 20 16:52:45 <Blastur> hey! anyone know where i can find a working list of package repositories? gromayer.com/it seems to be malfunctioning
May 20 16:53:12 <GAN800> Extras is the only important one.
May 20 16:53:31 <johnx> heh
May 20 16:53:31 <GAN800> The rest of them you can pretty much go without.
May 20 16:53:49 <GAN800> At least until gronmayer is back.
May 20 16:54:07 <Blastur> id like a repo with aircrack-ng in it
May 20 16:54:10 <Blastur> anyone know one?
May 20 16:54:22 <qwerty12> I think mulliners has it
May 20 16:55:29 <Blastur> ah, great
May 20 16:55:29 <Blastur> thanks
May 20 16:55:42 <qwerty12> http://www.mulliner.org/nokia770/
May 20 16:55:49 <qwerty12> Has one click install for OS2008 :)
May 20 16:56:22 <qwerty12> Yeah, just checked, chinook aircrack-ng is there.
May 20 16:57:59 <johnx> hmm...running kismet shows I should switch my WLAN to a different channel...
May 20 16:58:05 <Blastur> btw, is it possible to tunnel all traffic through a socks server?
May 20 16:58:29 <Blastur> like i can setup a "global" http-proxy, is it possible to do the same with socks?
May 20 16:58:45 <mysc> can i rm -rf ./mozilla (to remove all my cache)?
May 20 16:59:29 <qwerty12> You can do but you can also do it from the browser itself.
May 20 16:59:39 <mysc> how?
May 20 16:59:57 <KotCzarny> socks trafficking? O.o
May 20 17:00:13 <qwerty12> mysc, Menu > Tools > Clear > Cache
May 20 17:00:17 <mysc> found it :)
May 20 17:02:36 <mysc> how do you clear the xterm history? "history -c" doesn't work
May 20 17:02:51 <qwerty12> rm the .ash_historyfile?
May 20 17:03:55 <mysc> yep!, okay tablet is clear.
May 20 17:04:19 <qwerty12> Don't worry, I won't tell about the pr0n you were wgetting :p
May 20 17:04:30 <mysc> shhh!!
May 20 17:04:38 <qwerty12> hehe
May 20 17:11:56 <Blastur> hmm, what is the root password of my n810?
May 20 17:12:02 <Blastur> or how do i become super user?
May 20 17:12:08 <johnx> khertan_, I've been running kismet for 30 minutes now and collected 25,000 packets. How long does it usually take to have the channell hopping die?
May 20 17:12:33 <qwerty12> Blastur, www.nitapps.com
May 20 17:12:40 <johnx> Blastur, go to nitapps.com and install easyroot or install openssh server and ssh in or use flasher to put your tablet into rd mode
May 20 17:14:29 <Blastur> thanks
May 20 17:17:27 <qwerty12> My user name is on a word list. Should I be proud?
May 20 17:19:51 <KotCzarny> if it's not a blacklist or hitlist..
May 20 17:20:19 <qwerty12> If it's hitlist, goodbye all. I guess Nokia would want to kill me with the Diablo stuff :p
May 20 17:22:06 <johnx> khertan_, hmm...actually something is definitely a little bit off with kismet. It's really showing me a lot of random networks, including misnamed versions of my own AP
May 20 17:22:29 <johnx> what kind of problems should I be looking for?
May 20 17:26:33 <Blastur> where did you find kismet, johnx ?
May 20 17:26:56 <johnx> I'm using the one from debian
May 20 17:27:08 <Blastur> not on n810?
May 20 17:27:20 <johnx> on n800
May 20 17:27:37 <Blastur> which repository url is that?
May 20 17:27:57 <johnx> my n800 is running debian
May 20 17:28:24 <johnx> so it's ftp.us.debian.org/debian unstable main
May 20 17:28:27 <Blastur> oh.. okay. is it really stable yet? or are you developing?
May 20 17:28:46 <johnx> kismet or debian?
May 20 17:28:52 <Blastur> debian on n810
May 20 17:28:58 <Blastur> i read that it has no sound and that power management isnt perfected yet
May 20 17:29:05 <johnx> sound works
May 20 17:29:11 <johnx> power management still needs more work
May 20 17:29:57 <johnx> I'm not going to put much more work into it for a while...so if you're waiting for it to be perfect it might be a long wait...
May 20 17:30:45 <kulve> johnx: what have you done for it? Where are the patches? :)
May 20 17:31:15 <johnx> debian?
May 20 17:31:51 <johnx> I've copied a whole bunch of stuff from os2008 to make sound work. and put together a tarball out of stuff other people have made
May 20 17:32:39 <kulve> so, you haven't patched any sources and compiled the whole thing?
May 20 17:32:48 <johnx> nope
May 20 17:32:58 <johnx> I've compiled maybe one package
May 20 17:33:17 <Blastur> im quite happy with os2008
May 20 17:33:17 <johnx> tablet-utils from pkg-maemo.alioth.debian.org's bzr repo
May 20 17:33:36 <johnx> good
May 20 17:33:39 <johnx> so am I :)
May 20 17:33:43 <johnx> I still use it everyday
May 20 17:33:47 <Blastur> btw, does gps work on debian johnx ? and if so, is it better Time to fix?
May 20 17:34:01 <johnx> aaah...gps on the n810
May 20 17:34:06 <johnx> now that is a good question
May 20 17:34:15 <johnx> I don't have an n810 so I haven't done any work on that
May 20 17:34:27 <Blastur> oh ok. n800 doesnt have gps or?
May 20 17:34:36 <johnx> nope
May 20 17:35:05 <johnx> accepting n810 donations in return for support :P
May 20 17:36:32 <lopz> re
May 20 17:38:26 <Blastur> hehe, ill remember than when i get fed up with mine johnx
May 20 17:38:39 <Blastur> didn't someone mention a Openstreetmap program for N810?
May 20 17:38:44 <Blastur> i cant find it on maemo.org
May 20 17:38:53 <johnx> maemomapper? roadmap? navit?
May 20 17:39:43 <Blastur> i'd like to edit the maps.. maemo mapper only seems to provide read-only access
May 20 17:39:56 <johnx> aaah
May 20 17:39:58 <Saviq> Blastur: edit maps?
May 20 17:40:12 <glass> for fixing them i suppose
May 20 17:40:19 <t_s_o> well its official, nokia wants nothing to do with my wsod 770. sadly it brught it via expansys, as they where selling of some leftover us ones in europe...
May 20 17:40:31 <Blastur> openstreetmap is an ongoing effort, i have added pretty much all roads in my town
May 20 17:40:48 <Blastur> it'd be really good if i could walk around adding stuff like parking spaces and pubs in "real time"
May 20 17:41:07 <Blastur> otherwise its so much work to do when you get home and unload the gps traces
May 20 17:41:07 <glass> surely some of the apps has points of interest adding?
May 20 17:41:25 <Blastur> yeah, but this is not POIs, this is openstreetmap tags
May 20 17:41:40 <Blastur> so i need something like JOSM (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/JOSM)
May 20 17:41:58 <Blastur> but java is not available, right?
May 20 17:45:39 <glass> dunno how java on maemo has progressed
May 20 17:45:45 <glass> there was some effort for it tho
May 20 17:45:56 <glass> that would be probably too heaby
May 20 18:07:36 <johnx> khertan_, ok...It looks like after 1 hour 16 minutes it's stopped seeing new packets this time :/
May 20 18:07:58 <johnx> sorry if I got your hopes up
May 20 18:17:29 <Blastur> hmm
May 20 18:18:55 <Blastur> im trying to bounce traffic via my n810, so i set /proc/sys/ipv4/forward = 1 on my N810, and then on my workstation, i set the IP of my n810 as gateway. It seems to work, but as soon as the n810 detects that the workstation has a better (direct) path to the real router, it sends ICMP redirect messages
May 20 18:19:09 <Blastur> how can I prevent this and make sure all traffic goes through the n810, even though its not the optimal path
May 20 18:19:35 <AStorm> disable redirects :>
May 20 18:19:42 <AStorm> also in /proc/sys/ipv4
May 20 18:24:02 <Blastur> i did .. /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/all/send_redirects = 0
May 20 18:24:08 <Blastur> however, it still sends them according to wireshark
May 20 18:25:15 <AStorm> that's not it
May 20 18:25:20 <AStorm> wrong option
May 20 18:27:41 <Blastur> which one is it then?
May 20 18:29:22 <AStorm> that, and secure_redirects
May 20 18:31:17 <Blastur> still sending them :(
May 20 18:31:25 <Blastur> do i need to reload something after changing these?
May 20 18:37:22 <Blastur> test
May 20 18:38:30 <m-c> hi
May 20 18:38:44 <m-c> you maemo devs seen the iphone?
May 20 18:39:04 <m-c> I just got shown a bunch of features this weekend
May 20 18:39:17 <m-c> the virtual keyboard has some really nice UI features:
May 20 18:39:33 <m-c> 1) keys expand above the cursor so you can see what you are hitting
May 20 18:39:48 <m-c> 2) the key will not depress until you RELEASE the cursor
May 20 18:40:09 <johnx> I think most people here have used an ipod touch/iphone at some point...
May 20 18:40:17 <m-c> right away, wondered whether there were people bringing this to the NIT
May 20 18:41:03 <m-c> johnx: you would think so, but I could not see how someone could use that virtual keyboard and not want to put those features into a NIT right away
May 20 18:41:24 <inz> m-c, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrWpUBTDDr0
May 20 18:42:05 <johnx> re: 2) That's the same behavior on the tablet
May 20 18:42:26 <johnx> Also, there's nothing stopping someone from making a hildon input method that has features like that
May 20 18:44:36 <m-c> what is that software called that does the virtual keyboard on the NIT?
May 20 18:45:06 <qwerty12_N800> apt-get source hildon-input-method
May 20 18:45:24 <m-c> qwerty12_N800: thank you
May 20 18:45:51 <m-c> Nokia_Support:  Please hire Edge from that youtube video straight-away.  All the best.
May 20 18:45:59 <m-c> *Edje
May 20 18:46:07 <m-c> ;-)
May 20 18:46:17 <pupnik> synergy
May 20 18:46:19 <m-c> inz: Yes, that is exactly what I mean
May 20 18:46:20 <AStorm> johnx: not exactly the same
May 20 18:46:30 <m-c> inz: do you have any other insight into that demo ?
May 20 18:46:33 <AStorm> Nokia has autorepeat
May 20 18:46:38 <AStorm> which sucks
May 20 18:47:18 <johnx> AStorm, actually I was just playing with it and realized there was a "gesture" for "space"
May 20 18:47:50 <m-c> I see there is more information in the youtube comments
May 20 18:48:34 <m-c> ... because, the NIT virtual keyboard... it's not good, at least compared to the iPhone virtual keyboard
May 20 18:48:48 <m-c> in terms of usability
May 20 18:49:07 <johnx> I prefer it to the iphone keyboard, but everyone has an opinion
May 20 18:49:27 <roope> the iPhone one is predictive, the tablet one is not. It's a quite big difference.
May 20 18:49:28 <m-c> I see iPhone people tapping out messages quickly, and I see NIT people buying bluetooth keyboards
May 20 18:49:54 <johnx> I can type pretty quickly on the onscreen keyboard actually
May 20 18:49:55 <unixSnob> Navi, are you around?
May 20 18:49:55 * unixSnob wonders if navi is south african
May 20 18:49:59 <m-c> and the limitation just seems to be the two UI things I mentioned
May 20 18:50:05 <AStorm> roope: that's optional in iPhone
May 20 18:50:20 <AStorm> m-c: that's because of use case
May 20 18:50:24 <AStorm> NIT is a PC
May 20 18:50:28 <AStorm> iPhone is a phone
May 20 18:50:37 <johnx> m-c, the "zoom" thing is probably difficult to do without dedicated 3D
May 20 18:50:43 <m-c> if the NIT had "click on release"
May 20 18:50:56 <AStorm> johnx: it's actually simple, heh
May 20 18:51:00 <m-c> at least on the keyboard, it would be a lot more helpful
May 20 18:51:17 <AStorm> m-c: hmm, not as nice as you think
May 20 18:51:19 <johnx> AStorm, aaah...I wasn't remembering the effect properly
May 20 18:51:34 <johnx> (also, iphone users don't use bt keyboards because they *can't*)
May 20 18:51:45 <AStorm> yep
May 20 18:51:50 <m-c> I am not someone who thinks all things apple should be on linux, but when you see a UI design that works really well, then I think it should get incorporated
May 20 18:52:00 <acydlord> i preferred the NIT virtual keyboard
May 20 18:52:14 <AStorm> well, actually we're missing source code to some of the components
May 20 18:52:25 <acydlord> it's annoying when a predictive input keyboard shrinks the letter you want to type
May 20 18:52:29 <johnx> m-c, well filing an enhancement request with Nokia on bugs.maemo.org would be a good place to start
May 20 18:52:33 <AStorm> do we have code for handwriting recognition? hildon-input-method? virtual keyboard?
May 20 18:52:36 <johnx> or coding up a demo in python
May 20 18:52:43 <AStorm> or both :>
May 20 18:52:55 <johnx> AStorm, the actual keyboard itself? I think not, sadly :/
May 20 18:53:04 <m-c> AStorm: the youtube video shows that someone has the code available for just what I was saying was needed, about a year ago:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrWpUBTDDr0
May 20 18:53:07 <roope> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=5964&tag=nl.e622
May 20 18:53:33 <AStorm> ~lart Nokia and their lawyers
May 20 18:53:34 * infobot sends a legion of lawyers after Nokia and their lawyers's head
May 20 18:53:36 <roope> But then again, people prefer anecdotal stuff more.
May 20 18:53:43 <AStorm> infobot: lol
May 20 18:53:44 <infobot> from memory, lol is stands for Laughing Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead.
May 20 18:54:03 <AStorm> what a pointless bot
May 20 18:54:06 <johnx> m-c, but it was never plugged into the actual input method if I recall
May 20 18:54:26 <AStorm> well, plugging it in (hackish) is simple
May 20 18:54:40 <AStorm> you just need to set a certain tag on the window
May 20 18:54:53 <AStorm> and it will be nicely swallowed, hidden and shown when needed
May 20 18:55:22 <johnx> ah, interesting
May 20 18:56:49 <AStorm> hildon-im just sends proper X events
May 20 18:57:05 <AStorm> its window isn't focused (that'd break stuff)
May 20 18:57:29 <johnx> ah...wow that's actually a lot more reasonable than I thought!
May 20 18:58:03 <johnx> m-c, well, I nominate you to develop a demo to get other people interested
May 20 18:58:20 <m-c> roope: interesting link, thx
May 20 18:59:10 <roope> But there is of course a difference between what it _feels_ like to use and what the actual average input speed is.
May 20 18:59:17 <roope> subjective feelings are of course important also.
May 20 18:59:19 <m-c> johnx: like I said, I am only interested in what people were thinking about it.  I do not know how someone could have seen it and not said, "yeah, the NIT needs it"
May 20 19:00:12 <m-c> roope: my perspective is just watching three different people using iphones at a conference, and hearing the rapid "pop, pop, pop, pop" of their finger typing
May 20 19:00:38 <johnx> I actually like the fullscreen keyboard quite a bit, and I have had a chance to try an ipod touch
May 20 19:01:01 <roope> m-c: In best cases it works very well, yes. Once people learn and start to trust it, and don't write anything that strange, especially in English.
May 20 19:01:09 <AStorm> yep
May 20 19:01:16 <AStorm> other languages *will* have problems
May 20 19:01:36 <m-c> I have no doubt QWERTY typing is faster
May 20 19:01:41 <AStorm> btw, NIT has predictive text for handwriting recognition
May 20 19:01:55 <m-c> but I would not mind seeing a comparison of NIT finger typing and iPhone typing
May 20 19:01:56 <AStorm> so it shouldn't be too hard for Nokia to add it to the keyboard
May 20 19:02:08 * qwerty12_N800 has no doubt too ;)
May 20 19:02:11 <AStorm> m-c: anyway, N810 has a hardware keyboard
May 20 19:02:12 <johnx> it's also has some prediction with the keyboards...
May 20 19:02:12 <roope> astorm: No, there's no predictive text.
May 20 19:02:25 <AStorm> roope: there are dictionary suggestions
May 20 19:02:32 <AStorm> so, predictive text
May 20 19:02:34 <AStorm> :>
May 20 19:02:47 <roope> :) Well, but not in the capacity you would need for a iphone style keyboard.
May 20 19:03:01 <AStorm> enough :>
May 20 19:03:20 <johnx> but the iphone keyboard is more "corrective" than predictive
May 20 19:03:24 <m-c> http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/30/tenacious-hacker-brings-the-iphone-keyboard-to-a-nokia-n800/
May 20 19:04:01 <roope> That thing that Gustavo did is nice but a very superficial copy of it, there's no intelligence behind it.
May 20 19:04:08 <johnx> and thus we circle back to the original video...
May 20 19:04:16 <roope> The speed doesn't really come from type on release.
May 20 19:04:57 <AStorm> johnx: well, that's easy to do
May 20 19:05:05 <m-c> speed comparison >>> http://snoyt.vox.com/library/post/n800810-n95-and-iphone-typing-speeds-and-their-future.html
May 20 19:05:17 <AStorm> n95 is smaller ;P
May 20 19:05:25 <AStorm> compare n810 please
May 20 19:05:30 <AStorm> or n800
May 20 19:05:35 <m-c> they do
May 20 19:05:43 <AStorm> n810 hardware keyboard still wins ;P
May 20 19:06:18 <johnx> looks like the n800 wins :P
May 20 19:06:24 <AStorm> m-c: as you see, N800 won
May 20 19:06:43 <AStorm> and they can't use n810 hardware keyboard properly ;P
May 20 19:06:49 <AStorm> maybe too big thumbs
May 20 19:07:33 <m-c> well, it is one study, but I am willing to admit I am wrong
May 20 19:07:40 <m-c> *it is just one study
May 20 19:07:45 <acydlord> i started typng on my n810 a lot faster after i got my centro
May 20 19:07:53 <t_s_o> hmm, is that os07? i seem to get way to many wayward presses on my N800...
May 20 19:07:54 <AStorm> :>
May 20 19:07:58 <acydlord> as the centro has the smallest qwerty keyboard i have ever seen
May 20 19:08:03 <m-c> I would be happily surprised if my n800 has the fastest input method
May 20 19:08:14 <AStorm> acydlord: you see, I also got practice
May 20 19:08:23 <AStorm> and that guy probably didn't have any
May 20 19:08:28 <johnx> even if it's not the fastest it's still perfectly reasonable
May 20 19:08:30 <acydlord> yeah
May 20 19:08:33 <roope> m-c: Basically. Um. If you want a fast input method, you need a hardware keyboard.
May 20 19:08:36 <qwerty12_N800> Has anyone tried quikscript (something like that)?
May 20 19:08:36 <t_s_o> btw, is there supposed to be a keyboard press sound on the N800 fullscreen keyboard?
May 20 19:08:46 <roope> the iPhone predictive and tablet non-predictive reach about the same speeds.
May 20 19:08:49 <AStorm> t_s_o: it's optional afaicr
May 20 19:08:55 <AStorm> you can turn it on in the options
May 20 19:09:18 <AStorm> roope: so tablet predictive could be better still
May 20 19:09:32 <AStorm> I wonder how that compares to trained Dasher ;>
May 20 19:09:44 <AStorm> the only problem with it is that it requires full attention
May 20 19:09:44 <roope> astorm: I ... I don't think that there are studies that would show that predictive input is... would be faster.
May 20 19:09:46 <AStorm> (visual)
May 20 19:09:48 <m-c> roope: I want an accurate input method, actually
May 20 19:10:08 <roope> It's faster than multitap, but there aren't studies that would show that it's faster than a proper size non-predictive.
May 20 19:10:09 <AStorm> m-c: yeah, they should measure error rate
May 20 19:10:43 <m-c> actually, the fullscreen virtual keyboard is pretty good
May 20 19:10:47 <t_s_o> AStorm: i only find the generic touch screen sound. no matter what level i set that keyboad option in "sounds" to i get nothing...
May 20 19:11:09 <roope> It has always two sides: for the times that it corrects user input, it a) user might feel from his muscle memory that he typed wrong anyway and stop to check, b) the "correction" might actually be wrong, c) the user needs to stop and see that the prediction agrees with the user.
May 20 19:11:13 <m-c> dunno - I should think about it a bit more - look up some other studies online.  Just wanted to get people's opinions here.  thanks for your insights
May 20 19:11:17 <roope> These extra steps eat away the gains of a predictive system.
May 20 19:11:22 <AStorm> t_s_o: that's for the full screen keyboard
May 20 19:11:23 <m-c> roope: interesting
May 20 19:11:38 <AStorm> roope: yes
May 20 19:11:50 <AStorm> Dasher has nifty error correction mode
May 20 19:11:56 <roope> (as a sidenote, I wrote my master's thesis on text input... And well, I actually designed the NIT virtual input methods, so...)
May 20 19:12:03 <AStorm> although I could use a "jump to previous letter" key
May 20 19:12:04 <t_s_o> AStorm: and thats what i was looking for. but no matter what i set it to i only get the generic touchscreen sound...
May 20 19:12:07 <roope> So I have some opinions on these matters. :)
May 20 19:12:10 <AStorm> like a backspace
May 20 19:12:21 <AStorm> t_s_o: hm
May 20 19:12:30 <AStorm> probably a bug, go notify Nokia
May 20 19:12:36 <t_s_o> yay...
May 20 19:12:39 <roope> Still, I'm not here to say that they aren't perfect, they certainly aren't.
May 20 19:12:55 <roope> (minus n't)
May 20 19:13:06 <AStorm> KotCzarny: could you build new Dasher package for me?
May 20 19:13:10 <AStorm> just for testing
May 20 19:13:19 <AStorm> no need for GNOME or speech support
May 20 19:13:42 <johnx> roope, very cool. I didn't know what was you :)
May 20 19:14:24 <roope> http://maemo.org/intro/presentations/  my thesis is there, if you're interested. :)
May 20 19:14:47 <AStorm> roope: btw, how does chord typing fare?
May 20 19:15:03 <roope> astorm: Umm, with chord hardware and plenty of time, yes it's quite fast.
May 20 19:15:06 <AStorm> (I know, impossible on N8x0, no multitouch)
May 20 19:15:22 <roope> Chord typing is rather different than multitouch input.
May 20 19:15:33 <AStorm> hmm?
May 20 19:15:42 <AStorm> i know it is
May 20 19:16:21 <AStorm> I'd have to check if N8x0 touchscreen (if it supported multitouch) could be used as chord input
May 20 19:16:28 <roope> Things like that fall into the category of being interesting things that will 'never' really go to a mass market device, unfortunately.
May 20 19:16:35 <AStorm> yep
May 20 19:16:52 <AStorm> I'd rather have those 3D gloves ;)
May 20 19:16:53 <roope> Chord input on a touch screen would ... be just slower, actually.
May 20 19:17:16 <roope> Since if you assume that normal input is a quick tap in and out, chord input requires multiple inputs in and out. It cannot be faster, it can be slower.
May 20 19:17:27 <Veggen> hmm. Anyone knows if Sandisk 8GB mini-SDHC works in n810?
May 20 19:17:39 <AStorm> Veggen: mini? they have one?
May 20 19:17:47 <Veggen> eh, micro.
May 20 19:17:53 <AStorm> ah, that one, yes, it does
May 20 19:18:04 <roope> Unless you assume that you can hold your fingers still with the chord touchscreen version. But you can't really if there are no hard keys.
May 20 19:18:44 <Veggen> ok. Almost picked one up on impulse, but he said they didn't have a "no questions asked"-return policy, so I didn't.
May 20 19:18:46 <AStorm> really, have to check how well dasher does with the pen
May 20 19:19:26 <Veggen> (here, you can always return if it's defective, but return because it wasn't the right purpose-device isn't guaranteed by law)
May 20 19:19:33 <AStorm> stupid GTK input box insert a tab when you send them tab key event
May 20 19:19:39 <AStorm> or that's just stupid XChat ;P
May 20 19:19:43 <roope> astorm: Advanced users of Dasher can reach speeds of 15-25 wpm.
May 20 19:19:50 <AStorm> -35
May 20 19:19:51 <AStorm> :-)
May 20 19:20:13 <AStorm> it needs a better "back out" mode
May 20 19:20:14 <roope> Yes, the mouse version is faster, I actually quoted the eye version.
May 20 19:20:27 <AStorm> pen should be faster than mouse
May 20 19:20:54 <roope> Well, not really. The speed is more governed by the mental stuff happening in the mind. :)
May 20 19:21:01 <roope> You need to see and think what you're doing.
May 20 19:21:08 <AStorm> It'll lose anyway.
May 20 19:21:19 <roope> Scan all the options. I've tried to learn Dasher for some time, it's ... exhausting. :)
May 20 19:21:54 <AStorm> Not that much.
May 20 19:22:45 <AStorm> The trick is keeping constant pace.
May 20 19:23:04 <m-c> what's a good, inexpensive BT keyboard solution?
May 20 19:23:34 <AStorm> And mobile?
May 20 19:23:44 <roope> Stowaway keyboard is quite nice.
May 20 19:23:49 <roope> You don't want a crappy, mobile one. :D
May 20 19:23:54 <roope> that would kind of ruin the whole point.
May 20 19:24:11 <johnx> roope, did you design the fullscreen keyboard as well?
May 20 19:24:14 <AStorm> But it's expensive.
May 20 19:24:31 <roope> johnx: yeah.
May 20 19:24:35 <timely> m-c/ johnx: having used the ipod touch on a number of occasions, i hate its keyboard
May 20 19:24:38 <roope> It's ... well, it's functional.
May 20 19:24:52 <m-c> I am thinking about an apple bt keyboard -- I do not need an ultra-mobile one
May 20 19:25:05 <m-c> timely interesting
May 20 19:25:20 <AStorm> Yeah, it's okay.
May 20 19:25:38 <m-c> roope: I keep hearing about the stowaway, and I see a lot of people using htem with the NIT.  where did you buy yours?
May 20 19:26:00 <roope> m-c: I don't actually know. Nokia has a nice system of getting stuff. ;)
May 20 19:26:06 <roope> It just arrives.
May 20 19:26:10 <timely> fwiw, i would like to see an osk keyboard where key sizes varied (among other things)
May 20 19:26:11 <AStorm> I wanted to steal one ;)
May 20 19:26:13 <m-c> :)  :)  :)
May 20 19:26:33 <roope> but out of the ones I've tried the Stowaway is probably the best. It folds quite nicely etc.
May 20 19:26:53 <timely> AStorm: sadly hildon-im does trigger resizes, and that *does* break stuff
May 20 19:26:59 <m-c> what is the model number you like roope?
May 20 19:27:13 <m-c> they have different stowaways
May 20 19:27:19 <keesj> register now it is free!
May 20 19:27:30 <roope> http://homepage.mac.com/axg4903/images/770keyboard.jpg  it's the one that looks like this.
May 20 19:27:39 <m-c> ty
May 20 19:27:48 <roope> I think it's just Stowaway Bluetooth Keyboard, really.
May 20 19:27:51 <AStorm> heh, caught a bug
May 20 19:27:56 <AStorm> in xfce4-panel version I have
May 20 19:27:59 <roope> It was some years ago, i'm not sure if they have newer ones.
May 20 19:28:18 <johnx> IIRC, there is a similar foldable keyboard with 5 rows
May 20 19:28:19 <hrw> roope: did you one of guys who also wrote control-panel for choosing keyboard layout/language?
May 20 19:28:46 <roope> hrw: Umm, well. I'm an interaction designer, so I don't write them. But yes, I've specified some of them.
May 20 19:29:06 <roope> (just avoiding any possible blame beforehand ;)
May 20 19:29:17 <hrw> roope: please kick that someone's ass from me.
May 20 19:29:25 <roope> hrw: what's the matter there?
May 20 19:29:47 <hrw> roope: no possibility to add own layout of internal n810 hw keyboard
May 20 19:30:23 <timely> hrw: are you sure?
May 20 19:30:26 <timely> it's just software
May 20 19:30:31 <roope> hrw: Well, it's technically not easy to do. And besides, if there are printings on the keys, then umm.
May 20 19:30:40 <timely> roope: oh give me a break
May 20 19:30:44 <timely> nokia already messed that up
May 20 19:30:44 <hrw> timely: it is just *closed* software
May 20 19:30:54 <timely> hrw: i'll black box with you if you need
May 20 19:31:01 <timely> you can get a device from one region
May 20 19:31:07 <timely> and switch the hardware keylayout
May 20 19:31:09 <hrw> roope: technically it is *easy* to do. look at ukeyboard package which do that
May 20 19:31:15 <timely> when you do, there are 5 keys which rotate their blue function
May 20 19:31:21 <hrw> timely: to one of provided ones
May 20 19:31:25 <timely> which is just insane
May 20 19:31:36 <timely> => roope
May 20 19:31:37 <hrw> timely: I can not add Polish layout to that list
May 20 19:31:43 <roope> hrw: Well, it wasn't really seen as a use case that normal users would do. The effort to build the UI would be rather big.
May 20 19:32:00 <AStorm> roope: while you're at it, add an option for user dictionaries too
May 20 19:32:05 <timely> hrw: hrm, so you want to know how to force the ui to list polish as a selectable layout?
May 20 19:32:13 <timely> gimme a bit to pull up a vpn
May 20 19:32:13 <roope> Developers can create their own ones manually and then put them into the device.
May 20 19:32:16 <hrw> timely: exactly
May 20 19:32:26 <AStorm> I'd love to get that handwriting recognition to recognize Polish chars too :>
May 20 19:32:30 <roope> astorm: you can choose a custom dictionary. I think.
May 20 19:32:34 <hrw> roope: maemo team lack lot of use cases
May 20 19:32:38 <AStorm> just needs a minor expansion
May 20 19:32:48 <roope> hrw: I think lacking that use case is a good thing.
May 20 19:32:53 <AStorm> (like, "add character"
May 20 19:33:08 <AStorm> btw, it balks after you add too many character signatures
May 20 19:33:11 <hrw> roope: I would not agree
May 20 19:33:15 <AStorm> I mean, too many custom ones
May 20 19:33:27 <AStorm> can't add any more then
May 20 19:33:39 <AStorm> and the error message is not too precise
May 20 19:33:47 <roope> With limited resources the question is that do we put designers doing stuff like that or then doing actually something that people need and want and would help sell the devices.
May 20 19:33:47 <AStorm> need to write a bug about that ;P
May 20 19:33:48 <hrw> roope: current maemo i18n situation is deeply broken
May 20 19:33:54 <roope> And I don't think that feature would really sell more devices.
May 20 19:34:11 <AStorm> roope: well, bugs != features I hope?
May 20 19:34:20 <hrw> roope: then open sources of that application so we will be able to provide patches for review
May 20 19:34:26 <roope> astorm: Well, bugs are a separate issue of cousre.
May 20 19:34:27 <AStorm> (about that epitext or what it's called)
May 20 19:34:33 <roope> hrw: I'm all for open sourcing them.
May 20 19:34:41 <AStorm> adding your own chars to be recognized there would be great
May 20 19:34:59 <timely> hrw: sadly i suspect things aren't open sourced for reasons that are equivalent to them having poor scalability
May 20 19:35:04 <timely> lack of focus / desire
May 20 19:35:04 <hrw> roope: I heard that in 2012 sources of 2005 calculator will be finally open
May 20 19:35:17 <AStorm> ;P
May 20 19:35:28 <roope> I couldn't care less about the sources of the calculator app, really.
May 20 19:35:40 <hrw> timely: look at ukeyboard source - it is very easy to read and expand
May 20 19:35:51 <hrw> timely: and it do the same thing as maemo closed one
May 20 19:36:01 <timely> hrw: you don't want me to look at the open source code
May 20 19:36:12 <timely> if i'm about to look at the closed source code and give you black box hints
May 20 19:36:28 <hrw> timely: ok
May 20 19:36:31 <roope> For the keyboard issue there is not intentional done from preventing people to create new keymaps, there is just no UI in the device for it.
May 20 19:36:46 <AStorm> s/in the device/in the applet/
May 20 19:36:50 <AStorm> there's no need for UI to add
May 20 19:36:57 <timely> hrw: ok, can you give me some string unique to the ui in question?
May 20 19:36:57 <AStorm> there is need for UI to select :>
May 20 19:37:04 <timely> like the window title or label?
May 20 19:37:07 <hrw> roope: there is no new ui for it
May 20 19:37:14 <timely> roope: this is stupid
May 20 19:37:17 <hrw> timely: control panel -> regional & settings
May 20 19:37:18 <AStorm> yep, selector is just broken
May 20 19:37:26 <timely> hrw: pretend i don't have a device handy
May 20 19:37:27 <roope> timely: could you be a bit more specific?
May 20 19:37:34 <hrw> timely: moment then
May 20 19:37:35 <timely> could you be patient?
May 20 19:37:38 <timely> i'm not a fast typist
May 20 19:37:51 <timely> all it needs is a way to check a file system directory and list each item from that directory
May 20 19:37:56 <roope> Perhaps you could start with the issue first and then add the opinion, and not the other way round.
May 20 19:37:59 <timely> it can use the filenames to lookup their localized translations
May 20 19:38:10 <timely> there's a keyboard layout chooser
May 20 19:38:17 <timely> it presumably has a hard coded list of entries
May 20 19:38:21 <timely> and hrw wants to add polish
May 20 19:38:34 <timely> i'm not sure it's hard coded yet, i'll find out once hrw helps me find the code
May 20 19:38:42 <AStorm> :>
May 20 19:38:44 <roope> Yes, it might be hard coded, since all of those names are localized.
May 20 19:38:47 <hrw> timely: 'keyboard layout' is one message
May 20 19:38:53 <roope> And there is one for each sales region for the device.
May 20 19:38:58 <AStorm> roope: I smell misfeature :>
May 20 19:39:17 <AStorm> can't you people just use gettext?
May 20 19:39:17 <timely> roope: so what?
May 20 19:39:26 <timely> AStorm: no, we have to do it "better"
May 20 19:39:32 <timely> you can switch hardware layouts from the ui
May 20 19:39:41 <timely> and the result is Blue incompatible w/ the layout
May 20 19:39:47 <timely> which means we clearly don't care
May 20 19:39:55 <AStorm> yep
May 20 19:40:02 <AStorm> but, we can write new layouts
May 20 19:40:02 <timely> therefore that is not a valid reason to block accepting a third party layout
May 20 19:40:07 <timely> as for l10n of the string
May 20 19:40:09 <timely> that is solvable
May 20 19:40:11 <AStorm> :-)
May 20 19:40:16 <AStorm> yes, it is
May 20 19:40:25 <AStorm> just use gettext properly
May 20 19:40:35 <AStorm> and not hardcode names everywhere
May 20 19:40:37 <timely> AStorm: don't mention gettext
May 20 19:40:40 <AStorm> :>
May 20 19:40:48 <AStorm> ok, then write your own tiny variant
May 20 19:40:49 <hrw> timely: or 'Finnish/Swedish/Norwegian/Danish' is other text
May 20 19:41:00 <timely> hrw: your first string worked
May 20 19:41:02 <timely> patience
May 20 19:41:05 <hrw> ok
May 20 19:41:07 <roope> Well, yes, for that particular issue you might want to put a bug in the bugzilla. Perhaps Richard or Tomas can then comment.
May 20 19:41:20 <roope> It's how it's been implemented.
May 20 19:41:32 <hrw> roope: maemo bug #2899 is filled
May 20 19:41:33 <timely> this seems to come from hildon-input-method-plugins
May 20 19:41:34 <AStorm> Ok, I finally have to write these two annoying bugs in closed code
May 20 19:41:37 <pvanhoof> test
May 20 19:41:42 <hrw> pvanhoof: failed
May 20 19:41:44 <AStorm> about epitext
May 20 19:41:45 <roope> hwr: ok, that's good to know.
May 20 19:41:51 <khertan> Hi !
May 20 19:41:51 <AStorm> pvanhoof: enter password to continue
May 20 19:42:27 <qwerty12_N800> Theres ur password ;P
May 20 19:42:28 <hrw> AStorm: do not mention any i18n bugs rather - nokia devs do not even use strftime()
May 20 19:42:29 <khertan> Does someone can say me if sqlite3 is a default module of python2.5-runtime or does if it s a python2.5 module available in extras ?
May 20 19:42:44 <AStorm> hrw: it's not that bad
May 20 19:42:54 <AStorm> I mean, just make an option to add a symbol to epitext
May 20 19:42:55 <hrw> AStorm: really? look at clock applet
May 20 19:42:59 <AStorm> could be really useful
May 20 19:43:06 <AStorm> hrw: well, I know ;P
May 20 19:43:27 <Saviq> AStorm: what's wrong with the clock applet?
May 20 19:43:28 <AStorm> maybe even s/symbol/word/
May 20 19:43:32 <hrw> AStorm: on my tablet it should say "Wtorek" not "Tuesday"
May 20 19:43:37 <johnx> khertan, I believe python2.5-runtime does not depend on any sqlite stuff
May 20 19:43:41 <Saviq> hrw: it does, on mine
May 20 19:43:43 <AStorm> Saviq: it can't use i18n'd names
May 20 19:43:49 <timely> hrw: sorry, reading this code isn't easy
May 20 19:44:04 <AStorm> timely: hack over hack over bandaid? :P
May 20 19:44:15 <Saviq> hrw: mine's 'wtorek\n2008-05-20'
May 20 19:44:20 <hrw> Saviq: but you installed whole Polish translation - right?
May 20 19:44:24 <Saviq> yes
May 20 19:44:29 <hrw> Saviq: I do not
May 20 19:44:32 <AStorm> that fakes it, yep
May 20 19:44:34 <timely> AStorm: i'm not a native gtk speaker
May 20 19:44:39 <AStorm> timely: ah
May 20 19:44:40 <Saviq> ah ok
May 20 19:44:48 <timely> oh
May 20 19:44:50 <timely> there we go
May 20 19:44:53 <timely> how nice
May 20 19:44:56 <hrw> Saviq: normal gtk apps show Wtorek with my Polish regional settings and English language
May 20 19:44:58 <timely> static FOOPY barpy[] =
May 20 19:44:59 <timely> {
May 20 19:45:01 <timely> {...}
May 20 19:45:03 <timely> ...
May 20 19:45:03 <timely> }
May 20 19:45:07 <AStorm> rotfl
May 20 19:45:18 <AStorm> ~lart static arrays of text
May 20 19:45:18 * infobot farts in static arrays of text's general direction
May 20 19:45:19 <Saviq> hrw: understood
May 20 19:45:22 <timely> i hate to ask
May 20 19:45:24 <AStorm> infobot: suck
May 20 19:45:25 <infobot> hey, i'm on lunchbreak, screw off
May 20 19:45:31 <timely> do those fields change their values when you change languages?
May 20 19:45:36 <timely> e.g. switch your language to russian
May 20 19:45:40 <timely> what does it say?
May 20 19:45:50 <timely> if so, tell roope to bugger off wrt localizability :)
May 20 19:46:03 <hrw> timely: rotfl!!!
May 20 19:46:24 <timely> hrw: well, come on, check ;-)
May 20 19:46:26 <hrw> now I know why it is closed....
May 20 19:46:37 <timely> it's too embarassing to release? :)
May 20 19:46:41 <timely> (sp)
May 20 19:46:50 <AStorm> they should anyway
May 20 19:46:58 <AStorm> a team of cleaners would make it shine
May 20 19:47:06 <timely> or commit suicide
May 20 19:47:08 * AStorm would game
May 20 19:47:12 <AStorm> no, why
May 20 19:47:19 <AStorm> we could rewrite the worst parts
May 20 19:47:21 <khertan> johnx: thx, i ask because i ve two sqlite module in my nit
May 20 19:47:27 <timely> each person has a tolerance for bad code
May 20 19:47:31 <hrw> timely: restarting to Dansk language
May 20 19:47:43 <johnx> khertan, I got it running with the pysqlite you showed me
May 20 19:47:44 <AStorm> so, someone with high tolerance would rewrite it to something better
May 20 19:47:49 <hrw> AStorm: we would replace it with ukeyboard code
May 20 19:47:55 <AStorm> maybe
May 20 19:48:03 <timely> hrw: anyway... i think it should be possible for you to write a binary patch
May 20 19:48:13 <timely> or possibly if you understand gtk well enough some sort of library patch
May 20 19:48:15 <AStorm> timely: that is so wrong
May 20 19:48:36 <timely> AStorm: you don't want to reimplement this whole thing
May 20 19:48:45 <AStorm> we already did
May 20 19:48:48 <hrw> timely: I can even try to catch my left elbow with left hand
May 20 19:48:49 <AStorm> it's called ukeyboard
May 20 19:49:04 <timely> it replaces the pref panel in control panel?
May 20 19:49:09 <hrw> timely: it does
May 20 19:49:21 <hrw> timely: but it cannot replace pref panel in onscreen keyboard
May 20 19:49:30 <timely> oh sure it can
May 20 19:49:38 <hrw> but it does not
May 20 19:49:40 * timely goes looking for apis
May 20 19:51:52 <AStorm> btw, is the variant of matchbox used in Maemo OSS?
May 20 19:52:18 <AStorm> because, it crashes on me for some reason, I want to debug that
May 20 19:52:25 <timely> yes
May 20 19:52:29 <timely> http://mxr.maemo.org/os2008/source/matchbox-window-manager-1.2/
May 20 19:52:36 <AStorm> mhm
May 20 19:52:43 <AStorm> debug build exists?
May 20 19:52:47 <timely> http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/mxr-maemo-org-dns-0.1.deb
May 20 19:52:55 <timely> you need that deb installed to use the previous url
May 20 19:53:11 <AStorm> mhm
May 20 19:53:14 <timely> um... doubtful
May 20 19:53:19 <timely> but you can rebuild it yourself
May 20 19:53:24 <AStorm> yes, I can
May 20 19:53:34 <AStorm> I mean, I will be able to in a few days
May 20 19:53:41 <AStorm> finally some "free" time
May 20 19:54:22 <timely> ok
May 20 19:57:06 <m-c> hmm - trying to contact someone on Voice over IP using Google Talk, but Command Center will only let me chat with them
May 20 19:57:14 <timely> struct _private2 { GTypeInterface base_iface; GtkWidget *(*meth1) ( _private1*, _private3, GtkSizeGroup *, gint*); void (*meth2)( _private1*, const gchar*, GType, gpointer); void (*meth3) (_private1*, _private3); void (*meth4) (_private1*); void (*meth5) (_private1*, _private4*); }
May 20 19:57:31 <AStorm> hopefully these aren't real names :-)
May 20 19:57:33 <m-c> I wonder if I have something misconfigured, or if the Google Talk interface only allows chat and not SIP
May 20 19:57:52 <AStorm> w/o access to the headers we can't use that API
May 20 19:58:00 <hrw> I love api with lot of "private" names
May 20 19:58:03 <summatusmentis> m-c: I don't believe it supports sip?
May 20 19:58:11 <timely> i'm not sure i'm allowed to disclose such things
May 20 19:58:13 <hrw> execPrivate13() in AmigaOS was nice
May 20 19:58:20 <timely> so what i'm providing is merely an ABI
May 20 19:58:25 <AStorm> execPrivateRyan ;P
May 20 19:58:34 <hrw> timely: can we summary it?
May 20 19:58:43 <AStorm> timely: which will be broken in the next version?
May 20 19:58:51 <AStorm> that's heart-warming
May 20 19:58:51 <timely> AStorm: um... lemme check :)
May 20 19:59:33 <AStorm> Nokia could at least provide headers for the darned binary stuff
May 20 19:59:47 <m-c> summatusmentis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_talk
May 20 20:00:07 <hrw> timely: os2008 control panel for selecting keyboards use hardcoded lists of entries without any possibility to add new entries. It is also written so ugly that no one want to show its code to outside people (probably to not increase amount of people who died laughing).
May 20 20:00:13 <AStorm> btw, is there a version of mencoder for NIT? (could be nice for MJPEG and screencaps)
May 20 20:00:14 <timely> well, os 2007 didn't have the same api afaict :)
May 20 20:00:35 <summatusmentis> m-c: I stand corrected
May 20 20:00:36 <hrw> timely: os2007 use gtk 2.6 so it is normal that gtk related api changed
May 20 20:00:41 <m-c> summatusmentis: perhaps you were saying Command Center does not support voice with Google Talk ?  But, regardless, Google Talk does support voice
May 20 20:00:55 <timely> hrw: this is just the api that opens the settings dialog and friends :)
May 20 20:01:03 <summatusmentis> m-c: no, I was confused. I don't have an NIT yet
May 20 20:01:18 <m-c> summatusmentis: oh, you are in for a treat when you get one  :)
May 20 20:01:18 <AStorm> timely: yet they couldn't make it public for some reason or another? doh!
May 20 20:01:32 <hrw> AStorm: we have to get used to it
May 20 20:01:50 <AStorm> and they couldn't use dbus to launch it either...
May 20 20:01:59 <hrw> AStorm: nokia just prefer to ignore people from 'we-do-not-like-you' countries
May 20 20:02:01 <m-c> anyone here done a voice chat using google talk with their NIT ?
May 20 20:02:01 <summatusmentis> m-c: I'm hoping so. I'm hoping it's all it's cracked up to be
May 20 20:02:10 * AStorm stabs randomly around
May 20 20:02:36 <m-c> summatusmentis: it has some getting used to - it is obviously not a laptop interface, but it is a true pocket pc
May 20 20:02:56 <summatusmentis> m-c: well, I'm used to GPE on a Zaurus
May 20 20:03:30 <summatusmentis> but my Z is big, and I wish it had better wifi range, hence, the NIT
May 20 20:03:48 <timely> afaict in gagarin this stuff was just a "standard" maemo "thing"
May 20 20:04:20 <AStorm> hmmhmmm
May 20 20:04:28 <hrw> timely: gagarin was 3-4 years ago
May 20 20:04:53 <timely> hrw: thankfully https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/hildon-test-aut-tc-commit/2007-August/000024.html gagarin is not 100% private as black words go :)
May 20 20:07:27 <AStorm> hrw: where can I grab maemopad+ source code?
May 20 20:07:35 <m-c> I see - it is an Google Talk account thing - needs to authorize communication access  :) :)
May 20 20:07:36 <hrw> AStorm: garage?
May 20 20:07:45 <AStorm> Have to fix major screwups in db handling and add resizable canvas support
May 20 20:08:01 <AStorm> and maybe real export
May 20 20:08:10 <hrw> timely: thx for help and answering questions.
May 20 20:08:21 <hrw> also for providing some fun about maemo code
May 20 20:08:25 <summatusmentis> what browser does maemo use?(default)
May 20 20:08:36 <timely> microb / mozilla based browser for maemo ...
May 20 20:08:40 <AStorm> yep
May 20 20:08:51 <timely> http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/maemopadplus/
May 20 20:09:07 <AStorm> The requested URL /garage/source/maemopadplus/ was not found on this server.
May 20 20:09:16 <timely> "https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemopadplus/trunk"
May 20 20:09:16 <hrw> summatusmentis: it is based on firefox 3.0-alpha code
May 20 20:09:21 <timely> AStorm: you need to install that deb
May 20 20:09:34 <summatusmentis> hrw: oh, cool :)
May 20 20:09:34 <AStorm> uhm, tried a brower....
May 20 20:09:37 <timely> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/maemopadplus/trunk/.svn/entries
May 20 20:09:39 <timely> otherwise urls look like that ^
May 20 20:09:53 <timely> AStorm: the deb adds a /etc/hosts line for mxr.maemo.org
May 20 20:10:03 <AStorm> mhm
May 20 20:10:07 <hrw> 66.33.212.254 mxr.maemo.org
May 20 20:10:10 <timely> the deb is open source ;)
May 20 20:10:11 <AStorm> ok
May 20 20:10:28 <timely> http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/mxr-maemo-org-dns-0.1/
May 20 20:10:32 <hrw> having deb package for such change is overload of packaging ;)
May 20 20:10:43 <timely> hrw: it means you can uninstall it !
May 20 20:10:50 <timely> and it was fun to write :)
May 20 20:11:07 <timely> and it's reusable code, i have 2 debs that do the same thing :)
May 20 20:11:13 <AStorm> timeless: wth? there's almost no code in it...
May 20 20:11:24 <timely> AStorm: to add a line to /etc/hosts ?
May 20 20:11:25 <AStorm> *timely
May 20 20:11:28 <AStorm> no no
May 20 20:11:34 <AStorm> maemopadplus
May 20 20:11:35 <timely> AStorm: i am timeless
May 20 20:12:15 <timely> http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/maemopadplus/trunk/unified/src/ui/
May 20 20:12:23 <AStorm> as I expected
May 20 20:12:25 <timely> 	callbacks.c 	117k 	Nov 21 18:53 	
May 20 20:12:29 <AStorm> it loads the whole database at once
May 20 20:12:29 <timely> 	interface.c 	34k 	Nov 21 18:53 	
May 20 20:12:32 <timely> 	sketchwidget.c 	46k 	Nov 21 18:53 	
May 20 20:12:33 * AStorm *stabs*
May 20 20:12:38 <timely> not exactly tiny
May 20 20:12:43 <AStorm> tiny enough
May 20 20:12:47 <AStorm> could use some splitting
May 20 20:13:00 <AStorm> callbacks.c is evil ;P
May 20 20:13:12 * timely waits for the xref to finish parsing callbacks
May 20 20:13:24 <hrw> AStorm: svn checkout https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemopadplus
May 20 20:13:27 <timely> well, it might not be sqlite (combined form)
May 20 20:13:31 <AStorm> 9 indentation levels in sketchwidget.c ;P
May 20 20:13:45 <timely> but 4000 lines isn't shabby
May 20 20:14:01 <AStorm> this code needs some love
May 20 20:14:03 <timely> AStorm: anyway, for quick searches through garage, i hope you find mxr useful
May 20 20:14:14 <timely> sadly i don't update the index very often
May 20 20:14:16 <timely> but...
May 20 20:14:22 <AStorm> timely: it's great, yes
May 20 20:14:46 * timely goes back to hrw
May 20 20:15:22 <summatusmentis> how's the CPU on the N810? full screen video works?
May 20 20:15:25 <timely> ok, first public entrypoint
May 20 20:15:41 <AStorm> summatusmentis: it does, more or less
May 20 20:15:47 <AStorm> maybe some skipping
May 20 20:15:49 <johnx> summatusmentis, video up to around 5xx X 3xx works and plays fullscreen
May 20 20:15:57 <AStorm> it depends on the codec and compression level
May 20 20:15:57 <johnx> 800x480 video isn't going to happen
May 20 20:16:02 <summatusmentis> johnx: ok, cool
May 20 20:16:07 <AStorm> johnx: no, it does play DVD-class
May 20 20:16:09 <summatusmentis> thanks AStorm, also
May 20 20:16:11 <hrw> summatusmentis: 400x240 scalled videos plays
May 20 20:16:12 <timely> _private4 hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_new(void);
May 20 20:16:18 <timely> hrw: you need to export that :)
May 20 20:16:34 <johnx> AStorm, hmm? 720x480?
May 20 20:16:37 <AStorm> yes
May 20 20:16:45 <AStorm> w/o or with just minor skipping
May 20 20:16:48 <johnx> at 30fps?
May 20 20:16:49 <AStorm> DivX
May 20 20:16:50 <AStorm> yes
May 20 20:16:58 <AStorm> mplayer of course
May 20 20:17:00 <johnx> uhm...with magic?
May 20 20:17:02 <timely> hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_destroy(_private4*);
May 20 20:17:02 <summatusmentis> hrw: alright, fair enough. Much better than on the Z
May 20 20:17:15 <hrw> timely: possible without internal maemo headers?
May 20 20:17:16 <AStorm> johnx: no magic
May 20 20:17:24 <timely> hrw: yes
May 20 20:17:24 <johnx> AStorm, it would have to be skipping frames until it was down to about 20 I would imagine
May 20 20:17:35 <AStorm> not really
May 20 20:17:41 <timely> hrw: you'll basically get to replace the .so that is the current thing
May 20 20:17:42 <AStorm> might be 25 fps, I'm not sure
May 20 20:17:51 <AStorm> it visibly skips in a few high-speed scenes
May 20 20:17:57 <AStorm> but never <17 or so
May 20 20:17:59 <timely> hrw: i need to poke eero or someone
May 20 20:18:02 <timely> oh
May 20 20:18:03 <timely> sorry
May 20 20:18:14 <timely> _private4* hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_new(void);
May 20 20:18:26 * timely curses people for putting pointers on the wrong side of spaces
May 20 20:18:35 <timely> be wary of pointers... they're obviously important :)
May 20 20:18:56 <timely> note to people who might be nosy: these entrypoints could be found by using nm
May 20 20:18:59 <AStorm> timely: well, Nokia could just use dbus some more
May 20 20:19:12 <timely> AStorm: quiet, i'm working :)
May 20 20:19:17 <AStorm> that's easier to plug into
May 20 20:19:18 <AStorm> ;)
May 20 20:19:33 <timely> gboolean hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_load_plugins(_private4*);
May 20 20:20:08 <timely> GSList* hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_get_plugins(_private4*);
May 20 20:20:12 <AStorm> ok, so who will get me some screencap tool and mencoder for Maemo?
May 20 20:20:14 <johnx> AStorm, I'd believe 24fps with some skipping
May 20 20:20:31 <AStorm> johnx: I can get you a benchmark :>
May 20 20:20:37 <AStorm> a nice feature of mplayer
May 20 20:20:48 <timely> void hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_set_internal_value(_private4*, GType, gchar*, gpointer);
May 20 20:20:50 <AStorm> although the movie is long
May 20 20:20:59 <johnx> AStorm, I don't doubt that mplayer can decode the movie
May 20 20:21:12 <johnx> I doubt that our LCD controller bus can accept the data
May 20 20:21:13 <timely> void hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_unset_internal_value(_private4*, gchar*);
May 20 20:22:04 <timely> gpointer hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_get_internal_value(_private4*, gchar*, GType *);
May 20 20:22:19 <AStorm> johnx: I'll check the size, I might be wrong :-)
May 20 20:23:00 <johnx> I don't really care all that much...I just don't want to create false hope for summatusmentis
May 20 20:23:02 <timely> osso_context_t* hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_get_context(_private4*);
May 20 20:23:11 <hrw>  HildonIMSettingsPluginManager *hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_new (void);
May 20 20:23:15 <hrw> 20 22:27 < timely> _private4* hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_new(void);
May 20 20:23:21 <hrw> whic one is proper one?
May 20 20:23:26 <AStorm> johnx: ok, I fail
May 20 20:23:34 <timely> void hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_set_context(_private4*, osso_context_t*);
May 20 20:23:35 <johnx> hmm?
May 20 20:23:38 <AStorm> it's 528x272
May 20 20:23:54 <timely> hrw: eww, did i write that? heh
May 20 20:24:03 <timely> pretend i only ever wrote _private4* :)
May 20 20:24:09 <hrw> timely: which one is proper one? your or http://mxr.maemo.org/os2008/source/hildon-input-method-1.99.33/src/hildon-im-settings-plugin.h one?
May 20 20:24:26 <timely> oh? it's open?
May 20 20:24:26 <timely> bah
May 20 20:24:35 <timely> ...
May 20 20:24:42 <timely> this is why people should use the cross reference
May 20 20:24:46 <AStorm> :>
May 20 20:25:21 * timely goes to ask the xref to compare them
May 20 20:25:58 <timely> i don't think they changed the api since 2008
May 20 20:26:05 <timely> they weren't supposed to have
May 20 20:26:47 <timely> you should find that what i wrote is equivalent to what's there, except i tried to replace words i wasn't sure were public w/ "private" and "meth" and friends :)
May 20 20:26:59 <hrw> ukeyboard do not use hildon_im_settings api
May 20 20:27:11 <timely> you need to implement it
May 20 20:27:21 <timely> because that's what the soft keyboard uses to talk to settings
May 20 20:27:33 <timely> if you implement it, you can replace the stupid settings dialog
May 20 20:27:36 <hrw> heh... I love to reinvent wheel
May 20 20:27:49 <hrw> ~curse nOKIA
May 20 20:27:49 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nOKIA !
May 20 20:27:52 <timely> it could be worse
May 20 20:28:00 <hrw> timely: really?
May 20 20:28:05 <timely> they could have statically linked in the ui :)
May 20 20:28:19 <hrw> timely: I would prefer to have whole maemo closed then current situation
May 20 20:28:30 <hrw> situation would be much cleaner then
May 20 20:28:38 * timely shrugs
May 20 20:30:34 <hrw> now it is like: to get battery info you need closed binary, to change hw keyboard layout you need to rewrite few maemo components from scratch, to do X you need to hack nokia binary, to do Y you need 3rd party util, to do ......
May 20 20:31:09 <timely> so much more excitement this way
May 20 20:31:13 <hrw> if maemo would be 100% closed (except (l)gpl 3rdparty components) it would be much easier - I would not buy that device at all
May 20 20:31:14 <timely> it'd be boring otherwise
May 20 20:31:29 <timely> see, precisely my point :)
May 20 20:31:32 <hrw> timely: no - I would be able to run own linux system on it
May 20 20:31:54 * timely shrugs
May 20 20:32:06 <hrw> now I cannot use own linux system because nokia blocks it very badly with closed components like wifi/battery
May 20 20:32:13 <timely> i don't think you'll find many nokians who actually like the current situation
May 20 20:32:27 <timely> wifi was a hardware choice
May 20 20:32:45 <timely> they took an available component whose source they couldn't share
May 20 20:32:49 <timely> can you blame them?
May 20 20:33:07 <hrw> timely: no, but I can blame them for a way which they go
May 20 20:33:08 <AStorm> I can blame them for not working with conexant on a driver :>
May 20 20:33:09 <timely> would you pay 800EUR for a device just like the n800 but w/ open source drivers for the wifi chip
May 20 20:33:19 <AStorm> the driver it somewhat done
May 20 20:33:27 <hrw> I would like to have umac.fw loaded by opened driver
May 20 20:33:29 <AStorm> someone ported a bit of prism54 to SPI interface
May 20 20:33:45 <AStorm> so, Nokia could hire someone to finish the job
May 20 20:33:46 <hrw> or having umac.o with opensource wrapper
May 20 20:33:57 <AStorm> hrw: uhm, that's the current state
May 20 20:34:06 <AStorm> umac.o wrapped by open driver
May 20 20:34:11 * timely thought we were very close to that
May 20 20:34:18 <hrw> AStorm: which does not work with 2.6.25
May 20 20:34:20 <johnx> umac.ko is a separate module
May 20 20:34:32 <AStorm> hrw: it only needs hacking
May 20 20:34:37 <AStorm> minor too
May 20 20:34:43 <hrw> umac.ko can be stripped to umac.o but it is hack
May 20 20:34:43 <AStorm> the open part, not the umac
May 20 20:34:48 <AStorm> yes
May 20 20:34:54 <AStorm> minor and simple hack
May 20 20:35:32 <hrw> umac.fw would be better way anywya
May 20 20:35:45 <AStorm> uhm, it can't be done that way
May 20 20:35:55 <AStorm> umac is not just firmware
May 20 20:35:58 <hrw> anyway we have it like we have.
May 20 20:36:03 <AStorm> it's not uploaded anywhere
May 20 20:36:13 <timely> hrw: anyway, that file is equivalent to what i have
May 20 20:36:17 <timely> so yes, just implement that
May 20 20:36:26 <hrw> it can be hacked to be used with non-maemo systems (like Poky or other OE based)
May 20 20:36:29 <AStorm> so yes, just port prism54 to SPI
May 20 20:36:32 <hrw> but lack of battery info suxx
May 20 20:36:34 <AStorm> and add support for that chip
May 20 20:36:43 <timely> oh wait
May 20 20:36:46 * timely chuckles
May 20 20:36:56 <timely> hrw: the settings stuff seems to be open too
May 20 20:37:01 <timely> http://mxr.maemo.org/os2008/source/hildon-input-method-1.99.33/src/hildon-im-settings-plugin.c#450
May 20 20:37:18 <timely> so you could just hack it directly...
May 20 20:37:24 <johnx> hrw, there is a way to get battery info by polling retu
May 20 20:37:26 <timely> or copy what you need
May 20 20:37:33 <hrw> johnx: with charging?
May 20 20:37:34 <AStorm> exactly, there is
May 20 20:37:41 <AStorm> hrw: yes, with charging state
May 20 20:37:50 <hrw> nice
May 20 20:38:00 <AStorm> Retu has a correct kernel driver :>
May 20 20:38:06 <johnx> bme needs to do the actual charging, I believe
May 20 20:38:10 <hrw> ok - time to back to qemu hacking
May 20 20:38:12 <johnx> but the info is available
May 20 20:38:15 <AStorm> yes
May 20 20:38:40 <timely> hrw: anyway... in this case... the code you wanted was open
May 20 20:38:52 <AStorm> so we're only missing wifi and powervr
May 20 20:39:02 <AStorm> and DSP kernel
May 20 20:39:08 <hrw> AStorm: powervr...
May 20 20:39:23 <johnx> hrw, see "kcbatt" for an example of an app that reads retu-adc and prints battery level
May 20 20:39:46 <hrw> ok
May 20 20:40:17 <AStorm> we're missing minor voltage control stuff, but Menelaus is well documented, so writing a driver is simple
May 20 20:40:34 <johnx> it's also an example of how much free time KotCzarny has O_o
May 20 20:41:04 <timely> AStorm: i thought nokia was also missing powervr
May 20 20:41:15 <AStorm> timely: no, they have the driver for N95 and up
May 20 20:41:27 <AStorm> for Symbian
May 20 20:41:49 <timely> yeah, that's helpful
May 20 20:41:50 <AStorm> there is a closed 3D Linux driver
May 20 20:41:55 <timely> s/nokia/maemo/
May 20 20:42:16 <AStorm> rewrite it to be open+blob and it's good to go
May 20 20:44:12 <timely> 120     g_debug ("Not a HildonIMSettignsPlugin: %s. Skip it.", g_module_error ());
May 20 20:44:14 * timely sighs
May 20 20:44:22 <timely> high quality published code
May 20 20:44:32 <AStorm> :>
May 20 20:44:34 <timely> so guys... the code is open, why isn't there a patch to fix the spelling? :)
May 20 20:44:45 <timely> http://mxr.maemo.org/os2008/source/hildon-input-method-1.99.33/src/hildon-im-settings-plugin.c#120
May 20 20:44:59 <AStorm> because nobody has checkin rights to that SVN
May 20 20:45:17 <timely> file a bug in bugs.maemo.org w/ a patch
May 20 20:45:20 <AStorm> and it's not important enough to post a patch through bugs
May 20 20:45:31 <AStorm> too much overhead ;>
May 20 20:45:34 * timely has no idea if there's actually a public svn for it
May 20 20:46:10 <timely> http://mxr.maemo.org/maemo/source/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-input-method/
May 20 20:46:17 <timely> shows that there *is* a public svn
May 20 20:46:30 <AStorm> ok, maemopad+ is a total mess
May 20 20:46:33 <timely> http://mxr.maemo.org/maemo/source/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-input-method/.svn/entries
May 20 20:46:34 <timely> 5 https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-input-method
May 20 20:46:40 <AStorm> I'll better rewrite it in Python.
May 20 20:46:51 <AStorm> will be 15 KB or so ;P
May 20 20:46:57 <AStorm> (of code)
May 20 20:47:05 <timely> anyway...
May 20 20:47:11 <timely> please browse around mxr.maemo.org :)
May 20 20:47:16 <AStorm> :-)
May 20 20:47:30 <timely> it's not perfect, but i think you'll find it can be quite helpful
May 20 20:48:15 * timely wonders why mxr.maemo.org's l&f doesn't match timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test
May 20 20:48:51 <AStorm> why oh why people continue to use plain C for UI apps...
May 20 20:48:57 <AStorm> or C++ for that matter
May 20 20:49:03 <AStorm> they're not meant for that
May 20 20:49:06 <AStorm> :>
May 20 20:49:15 * johnx pokes at sapwood/hildon-desktop on the zaurus...
May 20 20:49:41 <summatusmentis> is hildon the wm?
May 20 20:49:47 <AStorm> no
May 20 20:49:53 <AStorm> it's the graphic toolkit
May 20 20:49:57 <AStorm> a variant of GTK
May 20 20:49:59 <johnx> summatusmentis, matchbox is the wm
May 20 20:50:11 <summatusmentis> johnx: right...
May 20 20:50:16 <summatusmentis> AStorm: oh, ok, thanks
May 20 20:50:31 <Jaffa> re
May 20 20:50:40 <timely> hrw: /join #hrw
May 20 20:51:09 <AStorm> timely: well, there's /invite ;)
May 20 20:51:28 * Jaffa should probably not have a moan at ppl on maemo-dev when he's feeling ill. Oh well, too late.
May 20 20:52:57 <AStorm> timely: I suspect there are Python bindings to hildon and that nice sketch widget?
May 20 21:01:13 <AStorm> ah, it's been implemented by hand
May 20 21:01:32 <AStorm> still need Python hildon bindings
May 20 21:03:45 <AStorm> omg, maemopad+ stores full GC pixmaps for undo
May 20 21:09:48 <johnx> hey rm_you|
May 20 21:10:10 <rm_you|> hey johnx
May 20 21:19:53 <timely> AStorm: i use /invite
May 20 21:20:01 <timely> but i can never be sure if people see it
May 20 21:20:19 <timely> and i don't really care if other people seem me inviting ... if people join, i'll kick em :)
May 20 21:22:17 <hrw> timely: I did not noticed that invite
May 20 21:22:38 <hrw> but thats due to separate status window
May 20 21:23:01 <AStorm> ok, what's the name of Python hildon bindings?
May 20 21:23:15 <AStorm> are there any?
May 20 21:23:34 <hrw> http://ok.research.nokia.com/pipermail/qemu-arm/2008-April/000060.html anyone?
May 20 21:23:35 <lmoura> AStorm, package python2.5-hildon
May 20 21:23:42 <AStorm> mhm
May 20 21:23:46 <AStorm> which Python package?
May 20 21:23:51 <AStorm> hildon.*?
May 20 21:24:17 <lmoura> oh
May 20 21:24:19 <lmoura> hildon
May 20 21:24:50 <AStorm> argh, no .py file
May 20 21:24:52 * AStorm stabs
May 20 21:25:52 <AStorm> no docs either
May 20 21:25:57 * AStorm stabs again
May 20 21:26:47 <AStorm> oh no, a separate file dialog :P
May 20 21:28:47 <Jaffa> hrw: link no worky (and s/ok.// gives 404)
May 20 21:29:11 <AStorm> some seekrit server
May 20 21:29:49 <Blafasel> Hrmpf. Nokia died today. At least everything S60
May 20 21:30:14 <hrw> Jaffa: its internal nokia server ;( I got that url as referrer to one of my blog posts
May 20 21:32:08 <Jaffa> hrw: interesting
May 20 21:33:22 <Blafasel> Can anyone comment on the inability of S60 to use S40 supported bluetooth profiles? Is that a known fact and I just ran into it blindly?
May 20 21:40:21 <hrw> Blafasel: iirc it is #maemo not #nokia
May 20 21:40:21 <timely> Jaffa / hrw: fwiw, ok is a generic server, kinda like swift
May 20 21:40:26 <timely> it happens to host mailing list archives
May 20 21:40:30 <timely> which is why it'd show up
May 20 21:44:13 <RST38h> gentlemen, how do I delete a branch from gconf during postinst?
May 20 21:45:44 <Saviq> anyone savvy in why would canola not be able to read id3 tags from some songs of mine? I suppose it doesn't do ogg yet, either?
May 20 21:46:11 <handfulOf_nothin> hey
May 20 21:46:20 <handfulOf_nothin> enter #canola we can help you (I lead the project )
May 20 21:46:36 <Saviq> yeah I noticed the nick
May 20 21:46:40 <RST38h> hello handful
May 20 21:46:43 <handfulOf_nothin> savi : it indeed does, but it seems that tuomas support still with problems in his repos. .then we are waiting
May 20 21:46:45 <handfulOf_nothin> : /
May 20 21:46:47 <Saviq> didn't know there was a channel
May 20 21:46:54 <handfulOf_nothin> yes.. enter there we will get your files..
May 20 21:46:56 <handfulOf_nothin> and try to debug..
May 20 21:47:12 <handfulOf_nothin> it's possible a bug in our code : / so we need files from all around the world to improve the code :)
May 20 22:20:22 <RST38h> X-Fade: Here?
May 20 22:43:50 <summatusmentis> http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/20/nokia-definitely-preparing-linux-based-phones-flavor-unknown/ ??
May 20 22:43:55 <summatusmentis> that might be exciting :)
May 20 22:45:00 <lopz> hola
May 20 22:46:49 <flo_lap> Using my s60 phones here I would say that there is no way to avoid this for Nokia.
May 20 22:48:09 <flo_lap> Basically s60 is not bad, but integration of "modern" features like wifi and sip is bad.
May 20 22:49:30 <summatusmentis> flo_lap: you're talking about the linux thing I linked to?
May 20 22:49:51 <summatusmentis> one of the comments discusses closed dev branches of maemo, how true is this?
May 20 22:50:09 <flo_lap> summatusmentis: yes
May 20 22:50:15 <timely> closed dev branches?
May 20 22:50:26 <timely> there are various groups which go off into the woods doing strange things
May 20 22:50:30 <timely> sometimes they never come back
May 20 22:50:58 <summatusmentis> "Nokia is increasingly exerting proprietary control over Maemo via closed development branches, which will accelerate after the Trolltech acquisition is complete. This is one of the reasons why multiple developers have left Nokia's Maemo development team, citing philosophical differences within the company.
May 20 22:51:04 <summatusmentis> You'll soon see the S60 UI evolve to run atop the Maemo platform in place of Symbian. At that point, Nokia will own the whole widget, which is exactly what they've always wanted.
May 20 22:51:06 <flo_lap> summatusmentis: well... quite likely, but they won't tell you. I know Nokia does a lot of research with devices and Linux.
May 20 22:51:07 <summatusmentis> "
May 20 22:51:10 <timely> my guess is he's talking about the gtk devs
May 20 22:51:28 <summatusmentis> oh, I didn't see the update on that. maybe not specifically phones
May 20 22:51:42 <summatusmentis> although, I'd love a carrier that had a linux phone worth purchasing
May 20 22:51:47 <timely> afaik the amount of closed code in maemo hasn't significantly increased in recent memory
May 20 22:52:05 <flo_lap> summatusmentis: quite likely, that's Nokias core competence - and they are really good with UIs
May 20 22:52:45 <summatusmentis> flo_lap: maemo based linux though?
May 20 22:52:58 <summatusmentis> or some stupid linux + proprietary everything else like Moto does?
May 20 22:53:12 <flo_lap> timely: Right, not for the tablets but there might be other projects.
May 20 22:53:39 * timely shrugs
May 20 22:53:41 <flo_lap> summatusmentis: that's hard to guess... you never know
May 20 22:53:56 <timely> i suppose you could argue that skype and the 2008 maps apps are "closed source"
May 20 22:54:03 <jdiaz> hola lopz
May 20 22:54:03 <summatusmentis> yeah... I hate all this guessing stuff :)
May 20 22:54:06 <timely> however, skype is a third party app
May 20 22:54:15 <timely> and maps is a bundled third party app
May 20 22:55:06 <lopz> heya jdiaz !
May 20 22:57:00 <summatusmentis> can Nokia now fix the US flight system, so that there aren't stupid delays related to weather?
May 20 22:57:23 <timely> heh
May 20 22:59:34 * timely offers summatusmentis a tornado warning
May 20 23:02:39 <summatusmentis> timely: that's the last thing I need. There is rain in Newark, and I've been delayed for 3 hours now
May 20 23:04:20 <timely> sadly, i don't think nokia has much experience dealing w/ tornados
May 20 23:09:19 <m-c> re: closed source software, the important part is the software that enables the NIT hardware functionality remains free and open source
May 20 23:11:00 <m-c> open source and open API applications are awesome and much better than closed apps (like skype), but the software that runs the hardware is the most important software.  you can always just replace a closed sourced app.
May 20 23:12:16 <summatusmentis> m-c: I agre
May 20 23:12:21 <summatusmentis> agree*
May 20 23:12:28 <summatusmentis> I'm worried that this is gonna change though
May 20 23:12:47 <summatusmentis> all conjecture, obviously
May 20 23:12:51 <m-c> as long as you have some GPL code in the wild to run your hardware, you're good for the long-term
May 20 23:13:10 <m-c> unless your hardware depends on non-free infrastructure (WiMAX, for example).
May 20 23:13:31 <Navi> timely, do you know where I can find the source to the old browser-ui?
May 20 23:15:43 <summatusmentis> alright, I'm gonna try and get on the plane again
May 20 23:15:55 <m-c> no plane for you!
May 20 23:26:14 <Navi> Anyone know if there are any libfuse2 packages?
May 21 00:26:33 <KotCzarny> yawn
May 21 00:26:39 <KotCzarny> morning
May 21 00:27:52 <m-c> good morning, KotCzarny
May 21 00:30:24 <KotCzarny> http://www.techamok.com/?pid=4557
May 21 00:30:25 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 00:30:35 <KotCzarny> offtopic, but funny
May 21 00:30:35 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 00:33:13 <m-c> I do not have my sound on, does it click as the dial spins back into place?
May 21 00:33:59 <m-c> if so, that's terrifically retro
May 21 00:34:34 <shapr> I do wish the dial actually clicked the number of times that was dialed though.
May 21 00:34:55 <shapr> That's how rotary phones worked, they sent clicks to tell a physical rotor to spin that much.
May 21 00:35:17 <shapr> We had that sort of purely physical exchange in my town when I was in high school.
May 21 00:36:46 <shapr> I knew far too much about phone systems at that point in my life.
May 21 00:38:24 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 00:38:31 <m-c> I was part of a network of computers that passed information from one local calling area to another, so we could pass messages across the state without paying long-distance charges.  :)  lots of information in those phone systems
May 21 00:39:03 <NullM0dem> m-c: bbs :)
May 21 00:39:10 <m-c> loved to stare at the local calling area maps, like I was placing units on a risk map
May 21 00:39:50 <NullM0dem> heh me too
May 21 00:40:36 <shapr> m-c: FIDOnet?
May 21 00:40:57 <m-c> actually, they wouldn't let us into fidonet, so we started our own net with the same software
May 21 00:41:03 <shapr> cool
May 21 00:41:19 <KotCzarny> lol
May 21 00:41:23 <KotCzarny> forkers
May 21 00:41:32 <m-c> yeah, and I just saw an interview with the guy who made it, who said he never intended it to be used as a centralized system
May 21 00:41:51 <m-c> so, actually, the fork was exactly as he intended
May 21 00:42:39 <m-c> called it yoginet and we got it all over the little state where I grew up, covered the whole thing.  might still be running
May 21 00:43:58 <m-c> fidonet is still running and relevant - it is used where the internet data (but not data telephone calls) are censored
May 21 00:44:27 <shapr> Yeah, fidonet was much like UUCP
May 21 00:44:33 <shapr> m-c: Dude, we're old.
May 21 00:44:36 <KotCzarny> ssh over fido, mm
May 21 00:44:38 <m-c> Vietnam and Russia were used as an example
May 21 00:44:57 <m-c> have you seen The BBS Documentary ?
May 21 00:45:06 <shapr> No?
May 21 00:45:13 <m-c> http://www.bbsdocumentary.com
May 21 00:45:15 <shapr> I was a heavy BBS addict during my teens though.
May 21 00:45:16 <m-c> well worth purchasing
May 21 00:45:42 <shapr> hah, I recently bought a Hayes 14.4k courier at a thrift store for $1.00
May 21 00:45:43 <m-c> no dvd encryption, lots of extras, fascinating stories, nice quality
May 21 00:45:50 <shapr> The courier was awesome.
May 21 00:45:56 <m-c> :-)
May 21 00:46:16 <shapr> I remember learning about trellis coded modulation and all that other stuff...
May 21 00:46:19 <m-c> oh, creative commons licensed
May 21 00:46:25 <shapr> What was the thing that had levels from 1 to 10?
May 21 00:46:31 <shapr> microcom or something?
May 21 00:46:43 <shapr> mnp? Microcom networking protocol?
May 21 00:46:45 <m-c> dunno
May 21 00:47:06 <m-c> I spent all my time working on my BBS, as long as the modem picked up, I was happy
May 21 00:47:34 <KotCzarny> and that was at the time without free local calls
May 21 00:47:34 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 00:47:37 <shapr> I liked the technology.
May 21 00:47:43 <m-c> and when I had to take it down for repairs, I learned I could twist the two copper telephone cables together to make the line busy
May 21 00:48:00 <shapr> heh
May 21 00:48:53 <shapr> Ah yes, it was MNP, levels 1 through 10.
May 21 00:48:59 <m-c> oh right
May 21 00:49:45 <m-c> I was thinking about going back to modems again, just because I am sick of paying $70 for internet, then I remembered how dog slow they were and how each packet has 300 ms of latency
May 21 00:49:47 <NullM0dem> m-c: i worked for a bbs when i was 13 - 14, we used TP board and fido net
May 21 00:50:08 <NullM0dem> you would have to make a BBS type protal
May 21 00:50:23 <m-c> they had such portals even way-back-when
May 21 00:50:39 <NullM0dem> i was thinking about that today
May 21 00:50:42 <m-c> was the start of isps
May 21 00:50:45 <NullM0dem> Im sick of the current state of the net
May 21 00:50:51 <m-c> AGREED
May 21 00:50:54 <shapr> I'm sort of unhappy with both my internet and my cellphone.. I noticed that there are wimax base stations that go for only $1500 USD
May 21 00:50:55 <NullM0dem> BLOAT!!!!!!
May 21 00:50:58 <m-c> I am getting into community wifi
May 21 00:51:09 <NullM0dem> like mesh?
May 21 00:51:10 <shapr> But I haven't found any client hardware that uses the unlicensed bands.
May 21 00:51:12 <m-c> I say, let's get back to sharing only our community owned information
May 21 00:51:15 <m-c> yes, like mesh
May 21 00:51:17 <shapr> Yeah, mesh networks rock!
May 21 00:51:21 <shapr> 802.11s, w00!
May 21 00:51:28 <NullM0dem> w00t!
May 21 00:51:43 <shapr> Speaking of N800...
May 21 00:51:53 <m-c> http://www.open-mesh.com
May 21 00:52:13 <shapr> I wanted to get the WiMAX edition until I discovered that it does not do the unlicensed WiMAX bands, and thus I would not be able to use it with wimax base station hardware that I could purchase myself for $1500.
May 21 00:52:23 <NullM0dem> m-c: arm based
May 21 00:52:36 <m-c> what's wrong with arm based ?
May 21 00:52:42 <NullM0dem> im really into the idea of low power mesh
May 21 00:52:44 <NullM0dem> nothing
May 21 00:52:45 <shapr> Now if someone figures out a way to hack the N800 WiMAX edition to use the unlicensed bands, I am totally buying it!
May 21 00:53:00 <NullM0dem> n810 WiMAX
May 21 00:53:02 <NullM0dem> i htink
May 21 00:53:11 <m-c> I think the whole idea of wimax is for cell phones to take over the wifi
May 21 00:53:21 <shapr> NullM0dem: Well, whatever.
May 21 00:53:25 <m-c> I am not all that happy nokia is heading in that direction
May 21 00:53:25 <NullM0dem> how about just hack the usb to attach to a device that uses unlicensed bands
May 21 00:53:39 <shapr> m-c: Yeah, but I'm only buying into that if I get the open-ness of wifi, not the closed-ness of cellphones.
May 21 00:53:51 <NullM0dem> ive never owned a cell
May 21 00:53:53 <m-c> yes, iphone closed is bad
May 21 00:53:58 <shapr> The big benefit of wifi is that each device is a peer, it can be a server or a client.
May 21 00:54:02 <m-c> NIT open is good
May 21 00:54:11 <NullM0dem> love nit
May 21 00:54:14 <shapr> The big downside of wimax is that the clients cannot be peers (not that I can see).
May 21 00:54:43 <KotCzarny> hrm
May 21 00:54:57 <shapr> So unless I can buy client devices that handle unlicensed bands for which I can buy base stations, I'm not doing that.
May 21 00:55:02 <KotCzarny> the problem with local communities is that there is no free pr0n
May 21 00:55:04 <m-c> is that a bigger downside than (1) it doesn't work inside, and (2) high latency, (3) doesn't scale?
May 21 00:55:11 <KotCzarny> and other licensed stuff
May 21 00:55:18 <KotCzarny> (music, games, etc)
May 21 00:55:24 <shapr> m-c: Explain?
May 21 00:55:30 <m-c> KotCzarny: guess you never visited my bbs?  ;)
May 21 00:55:44 <KotCzarny> m-c: well, i'm theoretically talking about perfect world
May 21 00:55:45 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 21 00:55:45 <m-c> shapr: there are lots of problems with implementing wifi
May 21 00:55:56 <shapr> NIT isn't as open as I wish it were.. I wish I could inject 802.11 frames with it.
May 21 00:56:13 <m-c> KotCzarny: just about every bbs has an adult section, but it was rarely advertised
May 21 00:56:23 <NullM0dem> KotzCzarny: i have a friend who has dl's pr0n since the 95 96 era has multiple terayte raid just for it
May 21 00:56:33 <shapr> Wow, that guy needs a girlfriend.
May 21 00:56:39 <m-c> the bbs operators had "all access passes" to the other systems, in the area.  I had a good idea what everyone else ran
May 21 00:56:42 <NullM0dem> he has a wife
May 21 00:56:47 <KotCzarny> nm: but it has the 'stolen stuff' badge
May 21 00:56:52 <NullM0dem> they ate both into it
May 21 00:56:55 <KotCzarny> hasn't it?
May 21 00:56:55 <shapr> m-c: Yeah, being full peers is worth the downsides of wifi.
May 21 00:56:56 <m-c> NullM0dem: that's so awesome
May 21 00:56:56 <NullM0dem> yeah true
May 21 00:57:02 <shapr> NullM0dem: wow
May 21 00:57:05 <NullM0dem> yeah
May 21 00:57:10 <NullM0dem> i think its hilarious
May 21 00:57:32 <NullM0dem> spent almost 2k on a backup system and raid setup just for pr0n
May 21 00:57:52 <m-c> it was so bad, too
May 21 00:57:53 <KotCzarny> he should watch it on a high speed
May 21 00:57:58 <KotCzarny> or mixed together
May 21 00:58:03 <KotCzarny> usually fixes such fixations
May 21 00:58:04 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 00:58:10 <NullM0dem> He is not one of those holed in parents basements geeks either
May 21 00:58:30 <KotCzarny> anyway, the problem with mesh network is it's limited bandwidth/latency ?
May 21 00:58:34 <m-c> most of it was black and white and such bad resolution you had to use your imagination to figure it out
May 21 00:58:36 <NullM0dem> yeah mplaer *pron.avi
May 21 00:59:03 <NullM0dem> like the C64 pron???
May 21 00:59:10 <KotCzarny> m-c: imagination is the only working part
May 21 00:59:12 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 00:59:13 <NullM0dem> asacii
May 21 00:59:15 <NullM0dem> ascii
May 21 00:59:23 <NullM0dem> you had to stand back
May 21 00:59:31 <m-c> remember waiting 90 seconds for a high resolution playboy scan to load, and thinking my computer was going to explode from all the information
May 21 00:59:59 <m-c> by hi-res, I mean 300x400 or something.  ;)
May 21 01:00:12 <shapr> Has anyone tried the mesh networking olsrd for the NIT?
May 21 01:00:14 <m-c> well, maybe not that bad, but it was pretty sad
May 21 01:00:20 <shapr> I had an amusing filesharing idea for the NIT...
May 21 01:00:47 <shapr> set up ad-hoc networking, and an http server, and an http client that searches for certain fixed strings on others http servers.
May 21 01:01:00 <m-c> can a NIT be used for ad-hoc networking?
May 21 01:01:05 <KotCzarny> m-c: yes
May 21 01:01:09 <shapr> So when you walk by some other NIT user on the street, you both check each other's file listings for whatever files you want.
May 21 01:01:09 <m-c> huh
May 21 01:01:18 <shapr> Physical file sharing can't be seen by the RIAA.
May 21 01:01:44 <KotCzarny> shaper: unless someone turns you in
May 21 01:01:45 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 21 01:01:50 <shapr> How would they know it's you?
May 21 01:01:56 <shapr> I keep my NIT in my pants pocket.
May 21 01:02:02 <m-c> mac address?
May 21 01:02:07 <KotCzarny> shapr: how do you know firmware isn't spying on you?
May 21 01:02:09 <shapr> You can change your mac address.
May 21 01:02:15 <m-c> how?
May 21 01:02:15 <ds3> anyone irritated by the hover feature on ITT?
May 21 01:02:24 <KotCzarny> and since gps is embedded they could know you by your habits?
May 21 01:02:29 <shapr> KotCzarny: I don't know that... that's one thing I don't like about binary blobs :-(
May 21 01:02:29 <KotCzarny> ie. credit card + time
May 21 01:02:44 <KotCzarny> + location
May 21 01:03:01 <KotCzarny> + a big world wide db
May 21 01:03:03 <m-c> nokia uses your mac address (printed next to the NIT battery) to identify your system
May 21 01:03:04 <shapr> m-c: On the 770, you can insmod the cx3110x driver with the mac address.
May 21 01:03:17 <KotCzarny> mac address can be changed
May 21 01:03:25 <shapr> There's a mac changer app for the N800, I assume it works the same way.
May 21 01:03:35 <KotCzarny> at least some people had theirs broken when playing with initfs etc
May 21 01:03:36 * m-c would like to change it.
May 21 01:03:58 <KotCzarny> but it doesn't need mac address to spy on you
May 21 01:03:59 <m-c> I think everyone should change their mac address monthly
May 21 01:04:02 <shapr> I tried to figure out how to hack the driver to inject 802.11 frames directly, but never could figure it out.
May 21 01:04:07 <KotCzarny> your activity is much better proof
May 21 01:04:18 <m-c> mac addresses are generally how your isp tracks you
May 21 01:05:00 <m-c> much harder to compile a list of all the websites you visited when you change your mac address
May 21 01:05:05 <KotCzarny> shapr: usb-wifi dongle?
May 21 01:05:06 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 01:05:22 <KotCzarny> m-c: nope, cookies, ips etc
May 21 01:05:33 <KotCzarny> assume everything is logged
May 21 01:05:54 <m-c> fine to assume, but your isp uses your mac address
May 21 01:05:59 <shapr> KotCzarny: If I could get either the 770 or the N800 to inject frames, I could use the 770 + 800 that I own to do paired injection and sniffing, and they could coordinate over bluetooth.
May 21 01:06:31 <m-c> I regularly flip bits on my wifi router for that purpose
May 21 01:07:22 <m-c> oh, also, does the NIT use an open source wifi driver?
May 21 01:07:33 <KotCzarny> not quite
May 21 01:07:38 <shapr> The 770 uses the cx3110x driver, I don't know about the N800
May 21 01:07:50 <KotCzarny> shapr: n800 too
May 21 01:07:57 <KotCzarny> though with newer blob
May 21 01:08:08 <shapr> In that case, it's not really oss, since it requires a firmware binary blob.
May 21 01:08:45 <KotCzarny> astorm played with newer kernel and found out it's almost working prism54 over spi
May 21 01:08:46 <shapr> As far as I know, there is only one bit of hardware that does not use a binary blob for wifi, that's the BUG from buglabs.net
May 21 01:08:47 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 01:09:05 <shapr> Well, portable hardware... ath5k will be blob-free, iirc.
May 21 01:09:40 <shapr> KotCzarny: spi?
May 21 01:09:45 <KotCzarny> kind of bus
May 21 01:10:04 <shapr> Yeah, but do you mean it's almost working with the n800?
May 21 01:10:08 <m-c> someone told me the wifi drivers are rarely open because it would allow the card to be used in the licensed wireless spectrum
May 21 01:10:24 <m-c> truth to that statement?
May 21 01:10:24 <shapr> m-c: That's the claim, but I think it's gezeik.
May 21 01:10:40 <KotCzarny> shapr: that it all the pieces look fitting but someone has to hack on it to get it working
May 21 01:10:46 <shapr> m-c: The rationale behind that is that most wifi devices are actually software defined radio devices.
May 21 01:11:49 <m-c> hmm
May 21 01:12:01 <m-c> that's too bad
May 21 01:12:03 <KotCzarny> so, free the band?
May 21 01:12:06 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 01:12:06 <shapr> m-c: So the wifi device manufacturers claim that if they released sufficient specifications that a truly oss driver could be written... then users would be able to violate the FCC's rules by broadcasting outside the wifi frequencies, or outside the power limits.
May 21 01:12:26 <KotCzarny> and move licensed bands to exclusive freq unreachable by customer devices?
May 21 01:12:29 <m-c> isn't that like saying because software might let you do something illegal, no one can let you look at it?
May 21 01:12:43 <shapr> m-c: Yes, I think so.
May 21 01:13:11 <KotCzarny> if you make something hard to do for most of the people it's less likely being done
May 21 01:13:11 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 01:13:23 <KotCzarny> people are stupid
May 21 01:13:27 <KotCzarny> and ignore warnings
May 21 01:13:34 <KotCzarny> and etiquette
May 21 01:14:28 <m-c> KotCzarny: because you might plot to rob a bank, I have to stop you from using IRC
May 21 01:14:43 <m-c> sorry - you have to go --- right now - bye
May 21 01:14:51 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 01:14:54 <m-c> ;-)
May 21 01:15:02 <shapr> Anyway, that's the explanation the wifi device makers have given.
May 21 01:15:22 <shapr> On the other hand, devices like the GNU USRP are legally for sale.
May 21 01:15:35 <KotCzarny> wouldn't it be possible to make a hw limiter and make sw open?
May 21 01:15:36 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 01:15:50 <shapr> So it seems to me that some enterprising device driver should get their device certified under the software defined radio device rules instead, and then sell it.
May 21 01:16:14 <m-c> from what I hear - you do not want to screw with the fcc
May 21 01:16:35 <shapr> KotCzarny: Yes, but I've heard that it's more expensive to make purpose specific hardware than it is to make very general hardware, limit it by software, and then sell different models for different prices.
May 21 01:16:37 <m-c> so, that's probably why they make it hard to use their devices hard to mod
May 21 01:16:55 <m-c> frankly, I am surprised we have been allowed to use wireless phones and wifi
May 21 01:17:13 <m-c> always felt like I was doing something bad by transmitting data
May 21 01:17:18 <shapr> For example... I have a Cambridge Silicon Radio bluetooth dongle that cost me $17USD...
May 21 01:17:29 <KotCzarny> you transmit data all the time
May 21 01:17:38 <KotCzarny> body works on electricity
May 21 01:17:39 <KotCzarny> :>
May 21 01:17:43 <shapr> With the right firmware, that dongle becomes a very expensive bluetooth sniffer.
May 21 01:17:46 <m-c> heh - guess so
May 21 01:18:05 <ds3> shapr: got a legitimate source for the said firmware?
May 21 01:18:21 <shapr> No, and of course I have never downloaded or used anything like that.
May 21 01:18:35 <m-c> OT: I am looking for a USB WiFi dongle for my linux desktop.  any one know of one?
May 21 01:19:01 <ds3> the RT73 based ones work
May 21 01:19:03 <shapr> ds3: Seen http://www.remote-exploit.org/research/busting_bluetooth_myth.pdf ?
May 21 01:19:12 <ds3> shapr: *nod*
May 21 01:19:16 <m-c> trying not to use nsdiswrapper
May 21 01:19:53 <ds3> RT73 has native drivers... rumor has it the latest kernel's RT2x00 driver will work for them (never tried, just tried the older rt73 driver)
May 21 01:20:22 <KotCzarny> yeah, rt2x00 made into kernel
May 21 01:20:28 <ds3> shapr: there is a reason I am asking for legitimate source of it :)
May 21 01:26:32 <KotCzarny>     "The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
May 21 01:26:32 <KotCzarny>     - Isaac Asimov, author
May 21 01:26:33 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 01:26:43 <m-c> :)
May 21 01:27:12 <m-c> shapr: so is that your project now?  bt sniffing?
May 21 01:27:30 <m-c> ... speaking of gaining wisdom ...
May 21 01:27:35 <m-c> ;-)
May 21 01:27:52 <m-c> interesting paper though
May 21 01:30:50 <KotCzarny> Venezuelan broadcasting regulator Conatel has forced The Simpsons off the air during the morning cartoon hours, calling it a bad influence on children, and replaced it with ... Baywatch!
May 21 01:30:51 <KotCzarny> lol
May 21 01:34:43 <Sebboh-> hi.  I'm interested in a mobile device, but I don't know which one.  Can any of you give me some advice?  I'd like to find something that meets these requirements:  Fast cell-phone network internet access (3g I guess?), a camera with better than VGA, and GPS.  And, preferably, an open development platform! :)
May 21 01:36:42 <KotCzarny> iphone?
May 21 01:36:42 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 01:37:15 <KotCzarny> no gsm on n8x0 for now
May 21 01:37:19 <Sebboh-> iPhone 1.x doesn't have any of those requirements. :)  (Oh, I love it, I own one.)
May 21 01:37:33 <KotCzarny> you may wait some more
May 21 01:37:46 <KotCzarny> there should be many interesting devices released this year
May 21 01:38:13 <Sebboh-> kot, any particular ones I should keep an eye on?
May 21 01:38:47 <m-c> Sebboh-: you know these maemo devices do not run on cell networks
May 21 01:38:59 <KotCzarny> sebboh: omap3
May 21 01:39:00 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 01:39:02 <m-c> which are closed-technologies
May 21 01:39:18 <KotCzarny> there is a rumour about n900
May 21 01:39:29 <KotCzarny> but no actual annoucments
May 21 01:39:37 <KotCzarny> so it's not a promise
May 21 01:39:42 <KotCzarny> but omap3 chips are there
May 21 01:39:52 <KotCzarny> and they bring much power to the market :)
May 21 01:41:46 <Sebboh-> m-c, huh?  none of the maemo devices support cell networks?  Hm, yes, that makes sense..  The iPhone sorta threw a cog in the works when we got root access to the cell radio, huh? :)  I noticed that mere months after that, the big providers introduced unlimited minutes plans; presumably in anticipation of skype-over-cellular-IP..
May 21 01:42:06 <KotCzarny> sebboh: not directly
May 21 01:42:11 <KotCzarny> but you can tether to a phone
May 21 01:42:24 <KotCzarny> and use it to provide inet for you
May 21 01:43:02 <m-c> I use a cell phone and bluetooth to enable my device to access the internet.  t-mobile has had unlimited internet data plans for years, in the usa
May 21 01:51:40 <mrglinux> hi what's different between nokia n810 and n810 wimax ?
May 21 01:52:02 <GeneralAntilles> N810W has a WiMAX radio and is black/orange.
May 21 01:53:25 <mrglinux> GeneralAntilles: just this?  so it's better than n810
May 21 01:53:46 <GeneralAntilles> If you want WiMAX or REALL REALLY like black/orange.
May 21 01:53:56 <beford> lol
May 21 01:53:56 <m-c> does it also have wifi
May 21 01:54:02 <m-c> as well ?
May 21 01:54:07 <beford> yes
May 21 01:54:08 <GeneralAntilles> m-c, it's an N810 with a WiMAX radio slapped on.
May 21 01:54:15 <m-c> hmm
May 21 01:54:49 <m-c> makes it hard to dislike something with all the openness of the N810 with a bit of optional closedness ;)
May 21 01:55:02 <mrglinux> and has it light behind key's of keyboard ? like mobile's
May 21 01:55:06 <GeneralAntilles> Well, it's some closedness or nothing.
May 21 01:55:18 <GeneralAntilles> mrglinux, N810 has blue/white light
May 21 01:55:25 <GeneralAntilles> N810W has orange/white light
May 21 01:55:33 <mrglinux> hmm
May 21 01:55:48 <mrglinux> GeneralAntilles: which one do you suggest  ?
May 21 01:55:54 <GeneralAntilles> Here's a bad shot: http://www.nokiainc.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/nokia-n810-hands-on-06.jpg
May 21 01:55:59 <GeneralAntilles> Do you have any use for WiMAX?
May 21 01:56:03 <GeneralAntilles> Are you in a covered area?
May 21 01:56:17 <GeneralAntilles> Are you willing to spend ~$40 a month for mobile broadband coverage?
May 21 01:56:25 <mrglinux> GeneralAntilles: no i think so ..but it is a tool
May 21 01:56:37 <GeneralAntilles> Can you not easily substitute 3g or EDGE for mobile coverage?
May 21 01:57:13 <GeneralAntilles> The N810W is somewhere in the range of $70-$120 more expensive looking at street prices.
May 21 01:57:20 <GeneralAntilles> (well, it's not actually out yet)
May 21 01:58:24 <mrglinux> GeneralAntilles: hmm.. i want buy one.. is see 415$ for n810 and 449$ n810w http://www.mobilecityonline.com/wireless/store/phonefinder.asp?search=search&chkCriteria=24&chkCriteria=25&chkCriteria=31&chkCriteria=53&chkCriteria=19&chkCriteria=36&chkCriteria=45&chkCriteria=28&chkCriteria=30
May 21 01:58:43 <mrglinux> but i dont knoiw yet where do i buy it
May 21 01:58:47 <GeneralAntilles> You should be able to get the N810 for closer to $380 if you shop around.
May 21 01:58:51 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe wait for some deals.
May 21 01:59:05 <mrglinux> sure
May 21 01:59:12 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.nokiainc.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/nokia-n810-hands-on-06.jpg
May 21 01:59:14 <GeneralAntilles> Oops
May 21 01:59:17 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3
May 21 01:59:19 <GeneralAntilles> That ^
May 21 01:59:29 <mrglinux> ok
May 21 02:00:00 <mrglinux> i buy it from ebay
May 21 02:00:14 <GeneralAntilles> Another option.
May 21 02:00:32 <mrglinux> for example?
May 21 02:00:43 <GeneralAntilles> ebay
May 21 02:02:22 <mrglinux> are they certain ? because ech low price maybe have problem or ...
May 21 02:03:10 <GeneralAntilles> Gotta be careful when shopping on ebay.
May 21 02:03:51 <KotCzarny> :>
May 21 02:03:52 <smackpotato> where is webkit for qt do we have to compile it
May 21 02:04:41 <GeneralAntilles> Presumably in the Qt repo.
May 21 02:05:38 <smackpotato> i wonder what its called
May 21 02:05:40 <mrglinux> GeneralAntilles which one do u have ?
May 21 02:05:46 <GeneralAntilles> N800
May 21 02:05:48 <beford> I read a couple days ago on this channel that qt4.4 + webkit was in the repo
May 21 02:05:57 <GeneralAntilles> I have no desire for a hardware keyboard and underpowered GPS
May 21 02:06:26 <smackpotato> ya its on the maemo page today
May 21 02:06:30 <GeneralAntilles> http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/
May 21 02:07:23 <mrglinux> GeneralAntilles: is both of camera same?(n800 and n810) i would like to see a picture of it to see the quality of that
May 21 02:07:59 <KotCzarny> ah, and n810 has light sensor
May 21 02:08:00 <KotCzarny> :>
May 21 02:08:11 <KotCzarny> and sunlight readable screen
May 21 02:08:51 <GeneralAntilles> mrglinux, http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2094/1730346304_e45eb6001b_o.jpg
May 21 02:09:03 <GeneralAntilles> The N810's camera is apparently very slightly improved.
May 21 02:09:56 <mrglinux> GeneralAntilles is it 2 mega pixel ?
May 21 02:10:00 <KotCzarny> lol
May 21 02:10:10 <KotCzarny> it's noisy.
May 21 02:10:11 <GeneralAntilles> 640*480
May 21 02:10:14 <GeneralAntilles> Less for webcam
May 21 02:10:23 <GeneralAntilles> It's a webcam
May 21 02:10:29 <GeneralAntilles> not a photo camera
May 21 02:10:34 <KotCzarny> and doesn't have a flash
May 21 02:10:47 <GeneralAntilles> If you want a photo camera, pick up a Canon A-series for $200. ;)
May 21 02:10:52 <mrglinux> hmm
May 21 02:11:02 <KotCzarny> or second hand nikon for a 50$
May 21 02:11:03 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 02:11:24 <mrglinux> not important :-D just linux  and programing ..and easy to work....
May 21 02:12:39 <KotCzarny> you can always try sdk
May 21 02:12:46 <KotCzarny> it has an emulator included
May 21 02:15:07 <tank-man> the screen on both the n810 and n800 look the same to me under sunlight
May 21 02:15:31 <GeneralAntilles> You're nuts, then, tank-man. ;)
May 21 02:15:57 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoughtfix/1628207429/
May 21 02:16:00 <tank-man> i compared it once on a sunny day
May 21 02:16:25 <m-c> gen : which do you think is better?
May 21 02:16:38 <KotCzarny> depends on personal views
May 21 02:16:40 <KotCzarny> and needs
May 21 02:16:47 <GeneralAntilles> The N800 looks like this in sunlight: http://mconnick.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/nokia_n800_main.jpg
May 21 02:17:06 <GeneralAntilles> I think the N800 is better because I already have one and don't need another N810 with GPS and a keyboard. ;)
May 21 02:17:16 <tank-man> not even the same angle
May 21 02:17:17 <GeneralAntilles> Factoring in price differences, I still say N800
May 21 02:17:19 <GeneralAntilles> But that's just me.
May 21 02:17:24 <GeneralAntilles> tank-man, it's a joke.
May 21 02:17:29 <GeneralAntilles> You can't read the N800 in sunlight.
May 21 02:17:29 <m-c> :)
May 21 02:17:37 <m-c> I can't either
May 21 02:17:46 <Sebboh-> GeneralAntilles, is there a good photo camera with a keyboard? :)
May 21 02:18:00 <Sebboh-> (or on screen keyboard)
May 21 02:18:05 <GeneralAntilles> Why would a camera need a keyboard?
May 21 02:18:12 <KotCzarny> for tagging
May 21 02:18:17 <EruditeHermit> lol
May 21 02:18:23 <KotCzarny> but some use .wav for that
May 21 02:18:36 <EruditeHermit> is there a camera with built in microwave?
May 21 02:18:47 <KotCzarny> eh: you mean wifi ?
May 21 02:18:49 <EruditeHermit> I've always wanted that functionality
May 21 02:18:55 <EruditeHermit> =p
May 21 02:18:56 <GeneralAntilles> The feds put cameras in your microwave
May 21 02:19:03 <GeneralAntilles> to watch you watching your leftovers
May 21 02:19:09 <shapr> The camera on my n800 is pretty bad.
May 21 02:19:14 <EruditeHermit> yep
May 21 02:19:19 <KotCzarny> more light!
May 21 02:19:28 <EruditeHermit> I could never get it to work with SIP either
May 21 02:19:36 <EruditeHermit> 1 way camera works
May 21 02:19:51 <Sebboh-> anybody who has ever used an n800 or an iPhone knows why I want a portable computer with a decent camera.  I *love* the n95's camera.  (symbian, though?  eh...)
May 21 02:19:57 <EruditeHermit> but getting both the laptop video and n800 video never works
May 21 02:20:21 <Sebboh-> And the n95 only has a keypad, right?
May 21 02:20:23 <EruditeHermit> KotCzarny: I was kidding around with the microwave
May 21 02:20:56 <KotCzarny> eh: but wifi operates in microwave freq, afair
May 21 02:21:21 <Sebboh-> yes, wifi, wimax, cellphones, etc, all in the microwave range.
May 21 02:21:30 <m-c> shapr: I pointed the n800 camera through some binoculars - worked pretty good!
May 21 02:21:40 <Sebboh-> m-c heh.
May 21 02:21:42 <KotCzarny> O.o
May 21 02:21:48 <KotCzarny> hell of a mod
May 21 02:21:49 <KotCzarny> :>
May 21 02:22:13 <m-c> was still grainy and fuzzy, but I took a picture of a boat 8 miles away
May 21 02:22:22 <KotCzarny> o.O
May 21 02:24:52 <mrglinux> how is quality of hardware .. i mean .. is it easy to damage for example if it fall down on the floor :-D (like my cellphone )
May 21 02:25:24 <KotCzarny> anything can break if you are unlucky
May 21 02:25:34 <KotCzarny> (and if device isn't certified for such abuse)
May 21 02:25:40 <GeneralAntilles> I've dropped my N800 more than once
May 21 02:25:43 <EruditeHermit> I've dropped it a few times
May 21 02:25:44 <GeneralAntilles> It's fine.
May 21 02:26:04 <EruditeHermit> my camera keeps popping out when I drop it though
May 21 02:26:04 <EruditeHermit> =p
May 21 02:26:10 * m-c dropped his N800 many, many times.
May 21 02:26:11 <mrglinux> :)good
May 21 02:26:18 * m-c also just sent it in for repairs.
May 21 02:26:31 <KotCzarny> 'dropped it for repairs' ?
May 21 02:26:32 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 02:26:54 <EruditeHermit> if anyone wants to send an n810 my way, feel free
May 21 02:27:12 <m-c> I will get right on that
May 21 02:27:29 <EruditeHermit> so who is going to hildonize OOo now that it has compiled for armel
May 21 02:27:50 <GeneralAntilles> Ugh
May 21 02:27:58 <GeneralAntilles> Just use Abiword. . . .
May 21 02:28:00 <EruditeHermit> and the gimp
May 21 02:28:18 <EruditeHermit> abiword is limited
May 21 02:28:21 <KotCzarny> why do you need it hildonized?
May 21 02:28:25 <KotCzarny> it will work without too
May 21 02:28:31 <EruditeHermit> because I don't have an n810 =p
May 21 02:28:39 <EruditeHermit> softkbd
May 21 02:28:55 <KotCzarny> you don't need hildonization for that
May 21 02:28:58 <KotCzarny> just use xvkbd
May 21 02:28:59 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 02:29:31 <EruditeHermit> hey is it possible to run matchbox on a desktop i386?
May 21 02:29:38 <EruditeHermit> with hildon support
May 21 02:29:38 <KotCzarny> sure
May 21 02:29:51 <EruditeHermit> suppose one were to buy a tablet PC
May 21 02:29:53 <KotCzarny> thought it's not so bright idea
May 21 02:30:02 * KotCzarny hates matchbox
May 21 02:30:04 <EruditeHermit> well I don't particularly like matchbox
May 21 02:30:06 <EruditeHermit> but
May 21 02:30:16 <EruditeHermit> I want handwriting recognition with hildon
May 21 02:30:29 <mrglinux> how much is battery live if you want see a movie?? and can it connect to portable  cdrom ?
May 21 02:30:33 <KotCzarny> there are hwr apps
May 21 02:30:49 <EruditeHermit> hwr?
May 21 02:31:09 <GeneralAntilles> 4 hours, mrglinux.
May 21 02:31:10 <KotCzarny> mrglinux: 3-5h, cdrom, possible with some hacking (soft and hardware)
May 21 02:31:10 <dmsuperman_> has anybody had any luck in maemo/mediastreamer and a desktop/mediatomb working together?
May 21 02:31:22 <KotCzarny> eh: handwriting recognition
May 21 02:31:30 <GeneralAntilles> dmsuperman_, try it with Canola?
May 21 02:31:37 <dmsuperman_> What's canola?
May 21 02:31:47 <EruditeHermit> KotCzarny: they don't look as elegant as hildon
May 21 02:31:50 <GeneralAntilles> http://openbossa.indt.org/
May 21 02:32:11 <mrglinux> how is it with asian language ? (os2008 i mean)
May 21 02:32:28 <GeneralAntilles> OK once you add the fonts, as far as I understand.
May 21 02:32:44 <GeneralAntilles> But Nokia doesn't officially support any Asian countries (at least last time I checked)
May 21 02:32:46 <mrglinux> hmm very good
May 21 02:33:04 <dmsuperman_> GeneralAntilles, this looks much better than mediastreamer, thanks for the suggestion i'll check it out ^.^
May 21 02:33:17 <GeneralAntilles> dmsuperman_, Media player can also do UPnP
May 21 02:33:19 <mrglinux> is is so beautiful http://www.mobilecityonline.com/images/products/23210_L.jpg  :)
May 21 02:33:21 <GeneralAntilles> It's just stupid slow in Chinook
May 21 02:33:25 <mrglinux> * it
May 21 02:33:26 <GeneralAntilles> Look for a big improvement with Diablo
May 21 02:33:43 <KotCzarny> shopped
May 21 02:33:46 <dmsuperman_> i don't even care about performance this second, i just want to get it working at all
May 21 02:33:48 <dmsuperman_> :P
May 21 02:34:20 <GeneralAntilles> Of note, dmsuperman_, there's a network overhead involved if you're playing videos
May 21 02:34:24 <EruditeHermit> GeneralAntilles: what is slow in Chinook, canola?
May 21 02:34:30 <GeneralAntilles> UPnP, EruditeHermit.
May 21 02:34:33 <EruditeHermit> oh
May 21 02:34:37 <GeneralAntilles> With Media player/File manager
May 21 02:34:44 <KotCzarny> reading from mmc adds overhead too
May 21 02:34:59 <dmsuperman_> GeneralAntilles, I didn't plan on videos, I want to do a VPN from work so I can stream music easily from my desktop over the internet to my n800
May 21 02:35:04 <GeneralAntilles> So you'll have a lower bitrate/resolution ceiling with network playback.
May 21 02:35:15 <GeneralAntilles> Music there's no issue with
May 21 02:36:02 <dmsuperman_> except my up bandwidth is horrible so it'll probably still run like crap
May 21 02:36:04 <dmsuperman_> but it's worth a try
May 21 02:36:11 <mrglinux> nokia n810 is made in where?
May 21 02:36:26 <KotCzarny> many places
May 21 02:36:28 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 02:36:42 <KotCzarny> finland, korea, china
May 21 02:37:42 <mrglinux> not different between these places ??? for quality ?
May 21 02:38:04 <KotCzarny> don't know
May 21 02:38:14 <KotCzarny> bad batches happen everywhere
May 21 02:38:15 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 02:38:34 <mrglinux> KotCzarny how about your tablet ?
May 21 02:38:41 <KotCzarny> korea
May 21 02:38:42 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 02:38:49 <KotCzarny> no problems, yet
May 21 02:39:24 <KotCzarny> but i haven't dropped it
May 21 02:39:37 <mrglinux> KotCzarny that screen is 640*480 ??
May 21 02:39:38 <KotCzarny> and don't plan to
May 21 02:39:42 <KotCzarny> 800x480
May 21 02:39:42 <beford> 800*480
May 21 02:39:46 <mrglinux> :-D
May 21 02:40:35 <mrglinux> i mean what the size of screen in pixel ? :P
May 21 02:40:42 <mrglinux> w*h
May 21 02:40:54 <KotCzarny> 4.something "
May 21 02:41:27 <KotCzarny> device is roughly size of usb 2.5" hdd enclosure
May 21 02:46:13 <unixSnob> what's the correct term for "wear protection" in the context of SD chips?  you folks have discussed it a few times.. and I need to google it
May 21 02:46:25 <KotCzarny> wear levelling
May 21 02:46:37 <unixSnob> thanks
May 21 02:46:58 <mrglinux> Nokia N810 Internet Tablet-Querty WiFi-2GB-NIB-NEW   means n810 wimax ?
May 21 02:47:06 <KotCzarny> not really
May 21 02:47:22 <KotCzarny> look for wimax in the name
May 21 02:47:23 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 02:47:36 <mrglinux> i cant find in ebay
May 21 02:47:40 <doc|home> the wimax one's not even released yet, is it?
May 21 02:47:42 <dmsuperman_> damn it
May 21 02:47:44 <dmsuperman_> it's not the client
May 21 02:47:46 <KotCzarny> then it's not available yet
May 21 02:47:49 <dmsuperman_> though i do like canola much more
May 21 02:47:55 <m-c> doc|home: it is used in various forms
May 21 02:48:05 <dmsuperman_> does anybody have any suggestions for getting a upnp media server and client to communicate across subnets?
May 21 02:48:21 <KotCzarny> dmsuperman_: ssh tunnel ?
May 21 02:48:21 <doc|home> m-c: ?
May 21 02:48:25 <mrglinux> hmm
May 21 02:48:31 <m-c> doc|home: !!
May 21 02:48:38 <doc|home> you lost me :)
May 21 02:48:47 <m-c> doc|home: you had me a "."
May 21 02:48:59 <GeneralAntilles> mrglinux, WiMAX tablet is out in July.
May 21 02:49:02 <dmsuperman_> KotCzarny, how would I get canola to find and read a upnp media server through an ssh tunnel?
May 21 02:49:29 <KotCzarny> dmsuperman_: i don't know about upnp
May 21 02:49:39 <KotCzarny> i use sshfs for all my file sharing needs
May 21 02:49:40 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 02:50:01 <mrglinux> hmm ... in n810 default storage wax 2gb ?
May 21 02:50:09 <mrglinux> ** was
May 21 02:50:10 <KotCzarny> 2gb + minisd slot
May 21 02:50:25 <KotCzarny> n800 has 2x normal sized sd(sdhc) slot
May 21 02:52:05 <mrglinux> have every one run open office on it..or is it possible ?
May 21 02:52:43 <GeneralAntilles> mrglinux, http://geekpenguin.blogspot.com/2008/05/so-close-to-complete.html
May 21 02:53:13 <mrglinux> i find this .. and i want buy it http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Nokia-N810-Internet-Tablet-Querty-WiFi-2GB-NIB-NEW_W0QQitemZ310051894157QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
May 21 02:53:23 <doc|home> oh nice, is it horribly slow?
May 21 02:53:30 <doc|home> it's not oo.o if it's not horribly slow
May 21 02:53:50 <KotCzarny> ever ran OOo on machine with 128mb of ram?
May 21 02:54:00 <doc|home> good god no :)
May 21 02:54:17 <KotCzarny> then it's safe to assume it's slow
May 21 02:54:18 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 21 02:54:22 <doc|home> hehe
May 21 02:54:22 <mrglinux> aaaa  =-O
May 21 02:54:29 <doc|home> hey, look at that, wet water!
May 21 02:55:15 <KotCzarny> doc: ever heard about ice-9 ? ;)
May 21 02:55:18 <doc|home> I'd like it to work for spreadsheets to be honest :/
May 21 02:55:20 <doc|home> KotCzarny: the wm?
May 21 02:55:26 <KotCzarny> doc: no, s-f
May 21 02:55:27 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 02:55:31 <doc|home> s-f?
May 21 02:55:36 <KotCzarny> science-fiction
May 21 02:55:37 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 02:55:41 <doc|home> ah, in that case, no :P
May 21 02:56:06 <doc|home> i'm getting gadget itch :/
May 21 02:57:27 <mrglinux> what is Mint Nokia N810 ?
May 21 02:57:46 <KotCzarny> probably nib
May 21 02:57:51 <KotCzarny> or no scratchy
May 21 02:57:52 <KotCzarny> :)
May 21 02:58:12 <GeneralAntilles> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mint#Adjective
May 21 02:58:24 <doc|home> mrglinux: mint = perfect condition
May 21 02:58:25 <KotCzarny> http://abcnews.go.com/Health/BeautySecrets/story?id=4675368&page=1
May 21 02:58:26 <KotCzarny> o.O
May 21 02:58:30 <doc|home> http://www.internettablettalk.com/2008/04/27/bye-bye-n800/ ?!
May 21 02:58:48 <KotCzarny> doc: nevah!
May 21 02:58:50 <doc|home> I wouldn't buy an n810 unless it dropped the the price of an n800
May 21 02:59:01 <KotCzarny> and it's old news
May 21 02:59:22 <doc|home> they should have called it "Why my mommy now has massive boobs"
May 21 02:59:56 <KotCzarny> if n810 dropped to 150$, then sure, why not
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 21 02:59:56 2008