**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 10 02:59:56 2008 Jun 10 03:01:06 god... i forgot houw unusable the normal echo theme is Jun 10 03:01:26 go nuvoclear Jun 10 03:01:27 :) Jun 10 03:01:47 you're kidding, right? Jun 10 03:01:53 I used to use echowb, then I deleted everything Jun 10 03:01:54 Echo is fantastic. Jun 10 03:02:02 I need the wide scroll bars Jun 10 03:02:24 It's lightyears ahead of all the other previous default themes Jun 10 03:02:35 Ah, I see. Jun 10 03:05:46 :-D Jun 10 03:06:35 btw. you can modify any them to your liking.. Jun 10 03:06:57 I know... I don't care that much about my theme, I just need the wide scroll bars Jun 10 03:07:35 the thread on itt about making wide scrollbars in every theme, just gives you double scroll bars in the default echo theme Jun 10 03:08:25 with a single hack you can make it apply to any theme Jun 10 03:08:48 ie. save your changes to /home/user/.gtkrc-2.0 Jun 10 03:08:58 yeah, I did that Jun 10 03:08:59 then include it in the theme Jun 10 03:09:44 what's the package/applet name for the clock in the status-bar? Jun 10 03:11:18 large statusbar clock? Jun 10 03:11:22 statusbar clock? Jun 10 03:11:45 large, that's what it was Jun 10 03:12:10 Has he pushed that to Extras yet? Jun 10 03:12:16 yep :) Jun 10 03:16:43 penguinbait's install-tools will clone my root to sd right? Jun 10 03:18:06 does anyone know how to get qemu-arm-eabi working for CHINOOK_ARMEL? Jun 10 03:18:52 i tried following the instructions at: http://maemogeek.blogspot.com/2007/11/installing-qemu-arm-eabi-patch-into.html Jun 10 03:19:55 but then running a binary it errors out saying it can not load /usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-tcp.so.0 Jun 10 03:50:55 anyone know where i can find a 2.2007.51-3 kernel with the 48mhz SD high speed mod? Jun 10 03:52:13 http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/ Jun 10 03:52:25 thank you Jun 10 03:53:19 More specifically, http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/kernel-2.2007.50-2-custom.tar.gz Jun 10 03:54:23 GeneralAntilles, would i miss anything from downgrading to 50-2 from 51-3? Jun 10 03:55:05 There is no 51-3 kernel. Jun 10 03:55:11 51-3 is just a NOLO upgrade. Jun 10 03:55:25 what's NOLO? Jun 10 03:55:34 The bootloader Jun 10 03:55:46 Non obtrusive loser offloader Jun 10 03:56:05 oh ok thank you Jun 10 03:56:28 (ignore me, I'm useless :-D) Jun 10 03:56:52 i figured :) Jun 10 03:57:04 ouch... :D Jun 10 03:57:50 oh ffs, why won't you connect to wireless? Jun 10 03:57:58 erm... wrong tab Jun 10 04:18:45 is there a DS emulator for maemo? Jun 10 04:19:20 nope...there is not a good ds emu for the PC, AFAIK Jun 10 04:21:32 what about GBA? Jun 10 04:24:06 oh wait... vga Jun 10 04:24:11 cgba Jun 10 04:24:15 vgba* Jun 10 04:26:48 night Jun 10 04:28:33 johnx, the PC emulators are all right Jun 10 04:32:37 Navi: what do you use on PC? Jun 10 04:41:54 http://www.icontrolpad.com/ Jun 10 04:41:56 lol Jun 10 04:42:43 mmm Jun 10 04:42:46 nice idea Jun 10 04:42:56 could include more buttons though Jun 10 04:43:31 but dpad sucks Jun 10 04:55:41 hmm, i have a libillumination0 showing up in the app manager continually, even tho i recently updated it... Jun 10 05:12:05 The screen on my N800 is flashing black Jun 10 05:18:37 hey i am trying to get the helloworld running on xephyr and somehow the instructions on the maemo site are not helping.. Jun 10 05:18:42 can anyone help? Jun 10 05:35:21 yawn Jun 10 05:35:43 angel: in which way are instructions on the maemo site not helping? Jun 10 05:36:07 he/she left Jun 10 05:37:35 oh well Jun 10 06:25:54 morning Jun 10 06:28:13 Hi, hrw. Jun 10 06:28:26 Hi, I just tried to create e2fs to prepare booting from MMC, so tried to install e2fsprogs, but apt-get shows "e2fsprogs is not available" Jun 10 06:28:33 How can I create e2fs? Jun 10 06:28:55 enable extras? Jun 10 06:29:29 extras do not have it Jun 10 06:29:36 hmm Jun 10 06:29:42 SDK repo Jun 10 06:29:52 could be Jun 10 06:30:05 formatting on pc will work too Jun 10 06:30:06 :) Jun 10 06:30:17 (via reader or via usb) Jun 10 06:30:37 RST38h, it might be useful to stick the repository name somewhere in all that whitespace you've got for each entry. Jun 10 06:41:50 ~curse amdati for crap called rs485 graphics Jun 10 06:41:52 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, amdati for crap called rs485 graphics ! Jun 10 06:55:11 fun thing is... With the NIT you can be in the most awkward locations, and still keep chatting on IRC Jun 10 06:57:06 Like the can? :P Jun 10 06:57:18 Woo Jun 10 06:57:30 Nerding it up in the bathroom Jun 10 06:58:09 thanks, KotCzarny. It seems there is extras info, so I just copied some packages from scratchbox. Jun 10 07:00:17 GA, damn you and your thelepatic abilities Jun 10 07:00:33 wrrrrhhhrwwwwrhzzzhrrhwwwwrzzhssss Jun 10 07:00:52 *splash* Jun 10 07:00:54 crashanddie_: the n e61i works nicely for irc in any location Jun 10 07:00:58 That's the sound of the motorized cameras I installed throughout your home. :P Jun 10 07:01:26 ok GA... so where do I live ? Jun 10 07:01:32 France! Jun 10 07:01:54 ok, but where ? Jun 10 07:02:08 Pfft, I dunno. I contracted that part out. :P Jun 10 07:02:36 I thought you installed them ? Jun 10 07:02:39 :0 Jun 10 07:03:00 I *had* installed I should say. :D Jun 10 07:03:23 The current maemowiki front page isn't very cooperative. :\ Jun 10 07:04:29 I think you ought'nt saying anything anymore (w00t negatives), my agents will be there shortly Jun 10 07:07:16 * GeneralAntilles engages the dead-man's-switch. Jun 10 07:08:02 * crashanddie_ calls jack sparrow Jun 10 07:09:20 *listen man... yeah... another one... oh but pleeeaaa'eeeaase ! You promised mommy you'd take care of me ! But he has a beard ! Jun 10 07:10:39 wow Jun 10 07:11:02 I shut down the laptop 'bout 20 minutes ago Jun 10 07:14:04 it's kinda sad how ISPs are un-imaginative with their hostnames Jun 10 07:14:14 I mean, I'd go crazy ! Jun 10 07:15:12 youre peculiar Jun 10 07:15:13 crashanddie_: you really want to come up w/ a million hostnames? Jun 10 07:15:19 without offending *someone* (anyone) Jun 10 07:15:30 some universities tried that Jun 10 07:15:50 alias for DHCP: Compliant Information Acquisition Jun 10 07:16:10 and there you have it... *.cia.inet.fi Jun 10 07:16:18 FUN ! Jun 10 07:17:30 anyway, going to uni, back in a few Jun 10 07:17:41 timelyx: istr my previous isp a few years ago hosted customer mail on a server named roskis ("trashcan") :P Jun 10 07:18:04 heh Jun 10 07:18:09 how long did that last? Jun 10 07:18:23 * timelyx wonders how many people here know the story about bugzilla and airlines Jun 10 07:19:19 bugzilla's mascot as people may or may not know is "bugy", he's a cute guy Jun 10 07:19:37 and he reflects the cute feeling bugzilla uses (somewhat playful) Jun 10 07:19:55 in any world, if two people try to make changes to the same object, someone will lose Jun 10 07:19:56 hi all. Who know any way ot use remote nfs share throught wifi on n810? Jun 10 07:20:03 in bugzilla, that's called a "mid-air collision" Jun 10 07:20:08 and we tell the user(s) who lost just that Jun 10 07:20:09 modprobe nfs Jun 10 07:20:20 mount share:/dir /media/somewhere Jun 10 07:20:21 an airline considered using bugzilla for some tracking system Jun 10 07:20:27 they didn't find it funny Jun 10 07:20:40 as far as we know, bugzilla lost a chance at a nice company because of that :( Jun 10 07:20:52 KotCrazy: all nfs stuff included? Jun 10 07:20:52 good story, lesson sadly not learned... but good story. Jun 10 07:21:07 hrhr: you can compile modules yourself, or just google for it Jun 10 07:21:16 probably someone alredy did that Jun 10 07:21:41 crashanddie_: anyway, see the risk? :) Jun 10 07:22:07 as I see kernels are different on different firmwares Jun 10 07:22:26 yes Jun 10 07:22:35 we update kernels just like we update software Jun 10 07:22:43 heck, some firmwares are *only* kernel updates Jun 10 07:22:48 timelyx: I guess it made sense in the context of having a debian mirror on tumble-dryer Jun 10 07:23:14 hrhr, 2.6.21 Jun 10 07:23:18 timelyx: point plz to sources of 53.1 kernel Jun 10 07:23:28 hrhr: do i look like a lawyer? Jun 10 07:23:31 hrhr: apt-get source kernel Jun 10 07:23:34 or something Jun 10 07:23:55 you have two options: google. reading your license Jun 10 07:23:56 sorry 2.2007.51-3 Jun 10 07:24:15 hrhr, anyway, source is available Jun 10 07:24:31 and most people have/use just that version Jun 10 07:24:40 compiling in scratchbox? Jun 10 07:24:44 yes Jun 10 07:25:07 but as i said, try precompiled ones first Jun 10 07:25:23 afaik all nokia packages are built in scratchbox... Jun 10 07:25:39 KotCzarny: i hate to ask, but why is there a proliferation of kernels? Jun 10 07:25:54 is the shipped kernel --without-loadable-kernel-module-support ? Jun 10 07:26:03 I don't have debian =(...only gentoo Jun 10 07:26:21 hrhr: scratchbox lets you install a debian env Jun 10 07:26:25 that's part of its job Jun 10 07:26:35 latest scratchbox howto only for 3.x bora Jun 10 07:26:38 (reading documentation is part of your job) Jun 10 07:26:38 timelyx: just copy modules to /lib/modules Jun 10 07:26:49 modprobe would work then Jun 10 07:26:57 KotCzarny: so why would there be lots of kernels available instead of lots of modules? Jun 10 07:27:03 and udev too (but that one i'm guessing) Jun 10 07:27:12 erm? Jun 10 07:27:27 10:25 KotCzarny but as i said, try precompiled ones first Jun 10 07:27:46 i meant, 'compiled by someone' Jun 10 07:27:56 it's late here :) Jun 10 07:28:29 what do you think about rx-34-kernel-modules-extra_2.6.21.0-200749osso2_all.deb at repository.maemo.org Jun 10 07:28:58 i don't know Jun 10 07:29:04 i have compiled my own kernel Jun 10 07:29:10 with hacks i wanted Jun 10 07:29:11 :) Jun 10 07:30:21 =) Jun 10 07:33:19 * timelyx sighs Jun 10 07:33:24 my least favorite bug class: Jun 10 07:33:45 users who complain about data-retention in cases where 99% of people complain about dataloss Jun 10 07:33:56 :) Jun 10 07:34:04 make it configurable? Jun 10 07:34:05 :) Jun 10 07:34:06 "firefox crashed, and when i ran it again, it logged back into gmail and took me right back to where i was" Jun 10 07:34:35 it has it's merits Jun 10 07:34:40 the complaint? Jun 10 07:34:45 yeah Jun 10 07:34:55 security related probably Jun 10 07:35:24 so,... all the user has to do is run firefox again and log out Jun 10 07:35:31 but yes, i understand the user Jun 10 07:35:36 i just think he's crazy Jun 10 07:35:50 if the computer isn't safe, then someone could be logging the data anyway Jun 10 07:36:42 maybe some callback to 'clear user data' in crash handler Jun 10 07:37:20 well, sure, but not a lot of people know how to log data. I'd imagine he's more worried about the next person innocently opening FF and browsing through his emails. Jun 10 07:37:48 net cafe etc Jun 10 07:38:00 but it's unsafe anyway Jun 10 07:38:07 so he/she shouldn't be complaining Jun 10 07:38:15 precisely Jun 10 07:38:33 there was a person who installed a web cam overhead Jun 10 07:38:40 another added a usb based key logger Jun 10 07:38:47 a third installed a hidden firefox extension Jun 10 07:38:54 Can session retention on crash be turned off? Jun 10 07:38:55 tcpdump too Jun 10 07:38:56 a fourth installed an os native key logger Jun 10 07:39:00 GAN800: sure Jun 10 07:39:11 well, the whole feature can be disabled Jun 10 07:39:16 but it can be turned back on Jun 10 07:39:22 we haven't implemented a "private browsing mode" for 3 Jun 10 07:39:27 it'll probably come for "next" Jun 10 07:39:54 oh, and a fifth user virtualized the os in VMWare and is logging everything :) Jun 10 07:40:15 :) Jun 10 07:40:22 I'm in a netcafe and i'm afraid firefox is spying on me Jun 10 07:40:26 'wontfix unrelated' ? Jun 10 07:40:27 ;) Jun 10 07:40:41 you aren't afraid that the rest of the net cafe is spying on you? Jun 10 07:40:53 pay 300EUR and by an eepc or 400EUR and an n810 Jun 10 07:40:55 ... Jun 10 07:41:01 :) Jun 10 07:41:01 s/ee/eee/ Jun 10 07:41:15 or 150$ for an n800 Jun 10 07:41:16 ;) Jun 10 07:41:25 sure... Jun 10 07:47:35 oh right... Jun 10 08:20:10 http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/143/ Jun 10 08:24:22 heh Jun 10 08:25:27 guenther, ping. Jun 10 08:25:41 GeneralAntilles: pong Jun 10 08:25:56 prong Jun 10 08:25:58 Dude, it's early in the morning here. ;) Jun 10 08:26:42 Two questions, does the website product really need maemo version numbers (and is there something more logical they could be replaced with?) and should I be setting the Target Milestone of new bugs to Future (assuming that an existing version number does not already apply)? Jun 10 08:27:06 GeneralAntilles: so... one reason to use them Jun 10 08:27:11 is if bugs move between products Jun 10 08:27:26 this is probably not very likely to happen, but when it does, you'd otherwise lose info Jun 10 08:27:33 (it's recoverable, but annoying) Jun 10 08:27:53 the other thing is that if the website does release updates that are remotely sync'd w/ os releases, then it's useful Jun 10 08:28:02 sadly, websites are really time based not verisoned Jun 10 08:28:05 sp Jun 10 08:28:11 but using that is a pain Jun 10 08:28:13 Just leave the Target Milestone unset, if there are no plans. Jun 10 08:28:30 you end up w/ either lots of versions, or Q numbers Jun 10 08:28:45 and then you rename Q+1 to 2008Q1 and Q+2 to Q+1 Jun 10 08:28:50 "Future" pretty much implies "well, next decade... maybe" Jun 10 08:29:04 anyway... it's your choice Jun 10 08:29:08 unless they document specific versions? Jun 10 08:29:16 Q numbers can certainly be done Jun 10 08:29:23 it requires a bit of work Jun 10 08:29:50 (no more than renaming "next" every now and then actually) Jun 10 08:31:03 Right-o, thanks. Jun 10 08:31:42 IMHO, setting a Target Milestone means, that the devs really plan to fix it by then. Jun 10 08:32:02 At the very least "plan". Not that it always will come true... ;) Jun 10 08:32:07 X-Fade, ping. Jun 10 08:32:17 * GeneralAntilles needs mediawiki plugins. Jun 10 08:33:35 GeneralAntilles: pong, I assigned it to Ferenc. Jun 10 08:33:42 Excellent, thanks! Jun 10 08:33:57 * GeneralAntilles spent 2 hours trying to figure out why conditionals weren't working in his templates. Jun 10 08:34:00 Stupid plugins. . . . Jun 10 08:34:06 Hmm yeah. Jun 10 08:34:16 GeneralAntilles: Btw are you admin in the wiki? Jun 10 08:34:24 Yeah, dneary upgraded me a few days ago. Jun 10 08:34:33 Ok :) Jun 10 08:36:50 GeneralAntilles: so are you going to change it? Jun 10 08:37:17 Change what? Jun 10 08:37:26 tm's Jun 10 08:37:53 Well, I had been setting them to on bugs I was actioning. Jun 10 08:38:02 setting them is still a good idea Jun 10 08:38:20 if you want different ones and come up w/ a better set, i can make that happen Jun 10 08:38:34 before i do that, you're expected to provide an updating page that describes your set :) Jun 10 08:38:50 this is so that "target milestone" can link to your page so people can figure out what your milestones mean :) Jun 10 08:39:38 Got nothing better. ;) Jun 10 08:39:50 nor did i, hence what you have now :) Jun 10 08:40:09 It's perfectly fine for me, just wanted to clarify the correct procedure for "Future" Jun 10 08:40:33 ah Jun 10 08:40:44 well, if you need something beyond Next and Future, that can be arranged Jun 10 08:40:59 typically future means "we aren't working on this (or anytime soon now)" Jun 10 08:41:15 In practice, Future tends to mean even later than no target set... Jun 10 08:41:23 right Jun 10 08:41:29 future means that the bug was looked at Jun 10 08:41:38 --- pretty much means it hasn't been Jun 10 08:42:14 GeneralAntilles: i might at some point create a distinction between Next Minor and Next Major Jun 10 08:42:29 i'd have to figure out how to give better words for that Jun 10 08:42:35 it's the difference between +0.1 and +1.0 Jun 10 08:42:52 "Update", "Upgrade", "Next" ... Jun 10 08:43:13 anyway, if you can come up w/ a way to express the 0.1 v. 1.0 bit, let me know Jun 10 08:43:31 I suppose using the next minor and the next major version number wouldn't work? Jun 10 08:43:36 although, officially, i don't own the bug system at this point ... i don't think that's a big deal Jun 10 08:43:46 wanna try counting w/ me? Jun 10 08:43:59 So, for right now, 4.2 and 5.0 Jun 10 08:44:00 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 3.0, 3.3, 4.0, 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 6.0 Jun 10 08:44:09 anyone know that version sequence? Jun 10 08:44:17 windows Jun 10 08:44:21 close Jun 10 08:44:21 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 3.11 Jun 10 08:44:28 4.0, 4.1, 4.99 Jun 10 08:44:35 WfW Jun 10 08:44:46 3.5, 3.51, 4.0, 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 6.0 Jun 10 08:44:50 nt Jun 10 08:44:59 anyway, the problem is that version sequences and product plans are fluiod Jun 10 08:45:02 s/od$/d Jun 10 08:45:16 there's no guarantee that what i was told on friday (i wasn't, but it's a day!) Jun 10 08:45:20 is what will happen next week Jun 10 08:45:24 which is why i picked Next Jun 10 08:45:25 usually major version changes when there is serious incompability Jun 10 08:45:34 not in maemo :) Jun 10 08:45:39 :) Jun 10 08:45:40 True enough, since, presumably, there's no 4.2 now and there might've been a month ago. Jun 10 08:45:42 have you looked at maemo releases? Jun 10 08:45:54 C , D, F, H is iirc the current lettering Jun 10 08:46:00 ehehe Jun 10 08:46:03 did someone leak what happened to E or G? Jun 10 08:46:10 No Jun 10 08:46:20 timelyx: Yes. They were skipped. Jun 10 08:46:22 maybe there were no cool names with that letters Jun 10 08:46:26 do you think the letters were obscene and intentionally skipped? Jun 10 08:46:31 The plans changed and those targets are no more. Jun 10 08:46:39 this isn't washington d.c., where there is no J street Jun 10 08:46:54 heh, why is that? Jun 10 08:46:54 j street? Jun 10 08:47:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streets_and_highways_of_Washington,_D.C. Jun 10 08:47:29 personally i prefer to the slight story Jun 10 08:47:32 so much better :) Jun 10 08:47:41 it's certainly the one i heard growing up Jun 10 08:47:50 There are also no X, Y, or Z streets. Jun 10 08:48:28 anyway... yeah, the point is that plans change Jun 10 08:48:45 using "Next" prevented me from having to change or even indicate any plans nokia may or may not have had Jun 10 08:48:53 but accountants are disturbed by that. Jun 10 08:48:55 ;) Jun 10 08:48:56 For future code name plans: http://ggweather.com/winds.html Jun 10 08:49:02 Lots of options :) Jun 10 08:49:04 and will smack you with anger Jun 10 08:49:07 and wrath Jun 10 08:49:25 or they could give up on winds Jun 10 08:49:27 winds change :) Jun 10 08:49:30 * timelyx shrugs Jun 10 08:49:30 :) Jun 10 08:49:40 timelyx: time till you go to work? :P Jun 10 08:49:44 personally i think they're a relatively bad idea Jun 10 08:49:45 wind of change? Jun 10 08:49:47 :) Jun 10 08:49:49 rm_you; 5-10mins Jun 10 08:49:58 because people can't spell winds Jun 10 08:50:14 i don't think i even tried counting the number of spellings for F Jun 10 08:50:18 Also, X-Fade, I set up a template for "More in this topic..." for the front page (http://wiki.maemo.org/Template:More_topics not working due to lack of the plugin), but I wanted to align it with the bottom left (right?) corner of each category box to offset it from the rest of the links in the box. Couldn't figure it out, though, if you get some time could you poke at it a bit? It might be useful/necessary to move to pure HT Jun 10 08:52:01 GeneralAntilles: Hmm maybe you can just specify a css class? Jun 10 08:52:31 I tried position: relative, but it doesn't do anything within the table. Jun 10 08:52:50 GeneralAntilles: Because that doesn't do anything. Jun 10 08:53:07 time to get some sleep, night people Jun 10 08:53:14 Maybe you should just float:right it? Jun 10 08:53:41 One sec, let me set up another sandbox Jun 10 08:54:06 GeneralAntilles: We need to set classes up here: http://wiki.maemo.org/MediaWiki:Common.css Jun 10 08:55:19 No effect: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Generalantilles/Sandbox/Front_page Jun 10 08:55:37 http://dev.laptop.org/~cscott/ul_warning.png Jun 10 08:56:25 'do not have children' ? Jun 10 08:56:27 O.o Jun 10 08:56:39 lol Jun 10 08:56:47 Yeah, X-Fade, I'd like to get some discussion moving in MAG on stuff like that. Jun 10 08:56:55 We seem to be limited in people right now, though. ;) Jun 10 08:57:36 GeneralAntilles: Check the page now? Jun 10 08:58:21 Hehe, better, but we've still got all that whitespace below it. :< Jun 10 08:58:58 GeneralAntilles: That doesn't bother me too much? Jun 10 08:59:13 Yeah, but it bothers _me_. :P Jun 10 09:00:55 Hi, dneary. Jun 10 09:01:02 hi GA Jun 10 09:02:22 Got more template goodness coming for you as soon as the new ParameterFunctions plugin gets installed. Jun 10 09:10:15 GeneralAntilles: Do you know how to change the CSS for the MediaWiki? Jun 10 09:10:48 http://wiki.maemo.org/MediaWiki:Common.css Jun 10 09:10:59 That's some of it. Jun 10 09:11:19 All admins can edit that one. At least we can use that for styling common objects. Jun 10 09:11:48 Where'd that namespace link go. . . . Jun 10 09:12:37 GeneralAntilles: Maybe because I added a   ? I think I shouldn't have done that? Jun 10 09:14:23 There's a way to display all pages in a namespace, but I can't find the mediawiki page for it. . . . :\ Jun 10 09:14:34 Ah. Jun 10 09:16:01 Well searching for it works :) Jun 10 09:16:22 Well, I had a page that showed all articles in the Mediawiki namespace Jun 10 09:18:25 any idea where i can get sources for apps on http://nitapps.com/? Jun 10 09:18:46 I guess this is it: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Special:Allpages&namespace=8 Jun 10 09:18:54 Namespace numbers are here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Namespace Jun 10 09:18:59 good morning Jun 10 09:19:05 Hi, fysa. Jun 10 09:19:37 someone with an n810 verify that "cat /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-0/0-0029/lux" returns the light sensor value Jun 10 09:19:39 ? Jun 10 09:23:16 sec... Jun 10 09:23:55 rm_you_: yep. That works. Jun 10 09:23:59 GeneralAntilles: what was I doing once I get the light sensor value? Jun 10 09:24:11 Changing the backlight value. Jun 10 09:24:17 rm_you_: indeed works Jun 10 09:24:18 rm_you_: I get 99 in my room. And 5 when I put my finger on it. Jun 10 09:24:22 kk cool Jun 10 09:24:24 438 here Jun 10 09:24:26 X-Fade: lol k Jun 10 09:24:31 750 in full light Jun 10 09:24:31 You're going to collide with the Nokia setup, though. :P Jun 10 09:24:33 wow Jun 10 09:24:37 heh yeah Jun 10 09:24:44 i need to figure out how to disable it Jun 10 09:24:57 actually, i kind of thought my thing disabled it already somehow Jun 10 09:25:13 I was never clear on that myself. Jun 10 09:25:29 Any N810 owners using adv-backlight? Jun 10 09:25:33 hmm. cannot find openssl deb. Jun 10 09:25:40 GeneralAntilles: I do. Jun 10 09:25:58 Does the light sensor still change the backlight level? Jun 10 09:26:06 How does it affect the light-sensor backlight autochanging? Jun 10 09:26:18 and how would you LIKE it to affect the light-sensor backlight stuff Jun 10 09:26:32 GeneralAntilles: what does adv-backlight do? Jun 10 09:26:43 Lightsensor overrights it. Jun 10 09:27:14 So if there is a change because of the sensor, the adv-backlight setting is dropped. Jun 10 09:27:14 aquatix, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16531 Jun 10 09:27:21 aquatix: you don't already use it? :P Jun 10 09:27:43 X-Fade: hrm... would you like if it was turn-offable in advanced-backlight Jun 10 09:27:47 in the settings? Jun 10 09:27:55 and how would you like advanced-backlight to handle it? Jun 10 09:28:08 ooh Jun 10 09:28:11 rm_you: not yet Jun 10 09:28:19 rm_you: No, but I would like it to go back to my selected setting. Jun 10 09:28:19 but looks like i will later today :) Jun 10 09:28:36 X-Fade: so... you would actually want it to switch? Jun 10 09:28:44 X-Fade: but then go back when Jun 10 09:28:49 ? Jun 10 09:28:56 rm_you: It may light up more because I enter a dark room (Not that kind). But go back to my setting when in normal light. Jun 10 09:29:07 rm_you: Or profiles based on light input :) Jun 10 09:29:09 hrm Jun 10 09:29:28 rm_you: At night it may be very dim. In normal light at 20% etc ;) Jun 10 09:30:42 hrm Jun 10 09:30:43 so.... Jun 10 09:31:05 you would like, say... four or something preset light levels, and to be able to set what brightness you want for each? Jun 10 09:31:18 and possibly the option to disable light sensor stuff entirely? Jun 10 09:31:19 * GeneralAntilles can already picture the sensor-based backlight settings ballooning towards infinity. Jun 10 09:31:30 * rm_you nods at Ge Jun 10 09:31:34 * rm_you nods at GeneralAntilles Jun 10 09:31:37 bah second ge Jun 10 09:31:42 Not a terrible thing in this case, though. Jun 10 09:31:52 rm_you: Basically I would need a modifier on top of nokia's settings? :) I like 20% less light than all Nokia settings. ;) Jun 10 09:31:55 i can make them only show up on n9810 Jun 10 09:31:57 ack Jun 10 09:31:58 n810 Jun 10 09:32:06 lol Jun 10 09:32:14 The issue is going to be getting dsme to cooperate. Jun 10 09:32:24 first step i guess is to figure out how i can disable the light meter stuff Jun 10 09:32:32 GeneralAntilles: I think those figures are in gconf? Jun 10 09:32:38 Highly unlikely. Jun 10 09:32:42 display stuff isn't Jun 10 09:32:49 It's a Nokia entity, X-Fade. ;) Jun 10 09:32:55 i mean, i can already GET the lightsensor value Jun 10 09:32:58 and i can change based on it Jun 10 09:32:58 that Jun 10 09:33:01 that's DONE Jun 10 09:33:06 That's the easy part. :P Jun 10 09:33:16 what i need to do is disable the built-in light-sensor support Jun 10 09:33:21 * GeneralAntilles searches for light-sensor bugs. Jun 10 09:33:34 * rm_you waits for timelyx to get to work Jun 10 09:33:52 mce, rather. Jun 10 09:33:58 Not a dsme thing interestingly. Jun 10 09:34:48 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2755 Jun 10 09:37:41 LOL Jun 10 09:37:42 advanced-backlight provides all 127 levels (I think, a lot anyway), Jun 10 09:37:42 which IMHO is a bit too much, but I can live with that 4 now :-) Jun 10 09:38:30 A lot of people complain about that Jun 10 09:38:35 I don't get it. :\ Jun 10 09:38:42 yeah... use the old nokia applet Jun 10 09:38:48 how hard is it to POKE A PLACE ON THE BAR Jun 10 09:38:50 me too, it doesn't change backlight for me in steady light conditions Jun 10 09:39:03 if you don't want that many settings... don't use them. use the ones around them Jun 10 09:39:07 <_< Jun 10 09:39:09 Haha Jun 10 09:42:25 BTW, how about merging advanced backlight control with lock-on-light-sensor? Jun 10 09:42:37 ? Jun 10 09:42:42 link? Jun 10 09:42:46 what is that project Jun 10 09:42:48 The current lock-on-light-sensor thingie does nto work 100% of time and can only be disabled by uninstalling Jun 10 09:42:51 A moment Jun 10 09:43:07 It would be very nice as an option in the applet Jun 10 09:43:19 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=185914 Jun 10 09:43:37 Thanks, GA Jun 10 09:43:43 [save me a cut&paste] Jun 10 09:45:30 um Jun 10 09:45:32 what? Jun 10 09:45:37 what do you want me to merge? Jun 10 09:46:26 you want a checkbox that says "Automatically lock tablet when light sensor is covered"? Jun 10 09:46:28 essentially? Jun 10 09:56:26 rm_you: yep Jun 10 09:56:41 rm_you: + some configurable heuristics to make locking smart Jun 10 09:58:14 morning Jun 10 10:01:57 Anyone bored? Jun 10 10:02:04 Fancy looking for a mistake in some code? Jun 10 10:03:37 Always Jun 10 10:03:53 hmm, you don't know what you're letting yourself in for.... Jun 10 10:03:54 :) Jun 10 10:04:21 https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mk2/arm/?root=dsp-sbc is the code based on bluez-utils 3.20 Jun 10 10:04:30 sbcenc works in this code Jun 10 10:04:33 lardman, it's more fun to find "real WTFs" instead of reading thedailywtf ;) Jun 10 10:04:41 :) Jun 10 10:04:50 oops correction above, that's the code from 3.32 Jun 10 10:05:05 https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mk2/arm-for-3.20/?root=dsp-sbc is the code from 3.20 Jun 10 10:05:36 I'm using the same dsp task code with both of these ARM codes (https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mk2/dsp/?root=dsp-sbc) Jun 10 10:05:54 as the DSP code is based on 3.32, it slots straight in there and works Jun 10 10:06:30 I've had to tweak the way sbc_encode() (in sbc.c) is called so that the same params can be passed to the DSP from the 3.20 code, which has a slightly different api Jun 10 10:06:36 with me so far? sort of Jun 10 10:08:10 The tweaks are carried out in sbc.c in sbc_encode() (in the 3.20 code) so that the args match both in and out Jun 10 10:08:12 etc Jun 10 10:08:58 Anwyay, I've checked that the parameters being passed in are the same, but when the read(sbc->dsp_fd,....) is done in sbc_encode(), I get back junk data (but always the same) Jun 10 10:10:05 The confusing thing is, that the DSP tells me that it is about to send me 39 16bit bytes, but the ARM only receives 18 8bit bytes Jun 10 10:10:15 http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/sbc/debugging.txt for some output from the 3.20 version of sbcenc Jun 10 10:11:18 Any questions? ;) Jun 10 10:13:08 (even silly ones) Jun 10 10:16:57 I should note that the file I was testing is apparently 8kb/s, which is not supported by the encoder, but it defaults to thinking it's 44.1kbps and processes it like that Jun 10 10:17:21 which is fine for the testing & comparison, if not the listening :) Jun 10 10:17:58 lardmanL what do you want looked at, again? Jun 10 10:18:53 https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mk2/arm-for-3.20/sbc.c?root=dsp-sbc&view=markup Jun 10 10:18:57 ok Jun 10 10:19:08 search for the text "i = read(sbc->dsp_fd, local_output, sizeof(local_output)); // this doesn't seem to read the correct data!!!!!" Jun 10 10:20:00 in the debugging.txt file above, you can see the following lines returned from the DSP: Jun 10 10:20:01 [ 252.914062] len = 256 Jun 10 10:20:01 [ 252.914062] encoded = 73 Jun 10 10:20:01 [ 252.914062] ((encoded+1)>>1)+2 = 39 Jun 10 10:20:34 which says it's used 256 8bit bytes (numbers on the DSP are passed in 8bit quantities so that fewer changes are needed to the rest of the sbc code) Jun 10 10:20:42 So you write a command few lines before and then read the response? Jun 10 10:21:16 that data comes out in what's effectively a printf() Jun 10 10:21:27 but it turns up in dmesg as it comes via the kernel Jun 10 10:22:04 my guess is that the 512 bytes contain some junk at the end and that junk confuses dsp Jun 10 10:22:22 no, because the dsp says it has encoded 73 8bit bytes Jun 10 10:22:27 ok Jun 10 10:22:35 yes but wait Jun 10 10:22:38 and it then says it will return 39 16bit bytes Jun 10 10:22:50 but on the arm side we only get 18 8bit bytes Jun 10 10:22:59 you have just sent 512 bytes - are these 16bit samples? Jun 10 10:23:14 I've offered it 512 8bit bytes, it takes 256 Jun 10 10:23:24 umgh...ok Jun 10 10:23:27 a moment Jun 10 10:24:33 lardman: out of pure curiosity, why you implemented SBC encoding on DSP and not on CPU? Jun 10 10:24:43 zap: save cpu time Jun 10 10:24:54 is it alot faster? Jun 10 10:25:04 lardman: Ok, how about doing another read()? Jun 10 10:25:10 https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mk2/dsp/dsptask_sbcenc.c?root=dsp-sbc&view=markup is the dsp side code which handles the encoding, look at the static Uns sbcenc_rcv_snd() fn which is called when data is written to the dsp Jun 10 10:25:24 RST38h: but why? Jun 10 10:25:40 RST38h: but the buffer is large enough to take all the data, it shouldn't need it Jun 10 10:25:41 lardman: Maybe the DSP does not have all the data ready yet Jun 10 10:26:14 lardman: Try this Jun 10 10:26:20 it has to have it ready, firstly as we see the message that it's finished encoding, and it's synchronous, and because it then tells the ARM that it wants to send - read() on the arm blocks until then Jun 10 10:27:03 lardman: Do two extra bytes contain lenghts of the result? Jun 10 10:27:36 yes, the first two bytes give the length of data used, and the length of the encoded output data Jun 10 10:28:00 this is needed as if the output length is odd (in 8but bytes) we have to pad as we can only pass 16bit bytes around on the dsp Jun 10 10:28:01 Do they contain the correct length? (39) Jun 10 10:28:11 yes Jun 10 10:28:16 O, do this then: Jun 10 10:28:21 1. read 2 bytes Jun 10 10:28:33 2. spin-read as many bytes as the reported result length Jun 10 10:28:38 See if this works Jun 10 10:28:39 maemo Jun 10 10:29:05 RST38h: I've tried reading 2 bytes and I get garbage out - not the numbers I expect Jun 10 10:29:18 maemo Jun 10 10:29:21 mmm Jun 10 10:29:37 so when you read 2 bytes it is different from reading as-many-as-possible? Jun 10 10:29:43 RST38h: the confusing thing is the 3.32 code works, and does exactly the same thing afaict Jun 10 10:29:47 maemo Jun 10 10:29:52 lobur: stop Jun 10 10:30:04 RST38h: yes, iirc Jun 10 10:30:10 weird Jun 10 10:30:14 RST38h: sorry I didn't note that result down Jun 10 10:30:56 here's the 3.32 code, which works, and does pretty much the same thing: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mk2/arm/sbc.c?root=dsp-sbc&view=markup Jun 10 10:31:14 scroll down to int sbc_encode( Jun 10 10:31:21 maemo Jun 10 10:31:33 I guess the stop button on lobur is a bit broken Jun 10 10:31:52 seems so :) Jun 10 10:32:29 poor lardman Jun 10 10:32:59 * GeneralAntilles hovers his finger over the staffer-summoning button. Jun 10 10:33:21 * lardman sees the wonders of mixing spaces and tabs in his code Jun 10 10:33:32 poor lardman Jun 10 10:33:32 ~lart gedit for mixing tabs and spaces Jun 10 10:33:33 * infobot puts gedit into a headlock and administers a mighty noogie, rubbing half of gedit's hair of for mixing tabs and spaces Jun 10 10:33:43 poor lardman Jun 10 10:33:43 VIM maybe? :P Jun 10 10:33:48 ~lart lobur for being a silly bot Jun 10 10:33:48 * infobot takes out a cattle prod and gives lobur a good jolt for being a silly bot Jun 10 10:33:57 you could prolly just open it in VIM and have it auto-space Jun 10 10:33:58 poor lardman Jun 10 10:34:12 rm_you: I will do something like that eventually Jun 10 10:34:59 poor lardman Jun 10 10:35:17 gg=Shift+g Jun 10 10:35:19 :P Jun 10 10:35:32 or "gg=G" Jun 10 10:35:43 lardman: do you admit you're poor? Jun 10 10:36:12 lobur: I accept cheques and bankers' drafts if you want to make me richer Jun 10 10:36:19 :) Jun 10 10:36:28 yes, how much do you want? Jun 10 10:36:37 how much do you have Jun 10 10:36:50 $10 will do Jun 10 10:36:58 9876 pounds Jun 10 10:37:17 lbs or £? Jun 10 10:37:29 £ Jun 10 10:37:36 so you're not a bot then? Jun 10 10:38:01 bots don't have property Jun 10 10:38:52 he must be lying Jun 10 10:38:54 what is a bot Jun 10 10:39:01 a computer program Jun 10 10:39:28 I am agent smith Jun 10 10:39:46 Agent Smith is a typical bot Jun 10 10:40:04 I'm bored, back to the DSP debugging I say Jun 10 10:40:20 how much do you want, Lardman? Jun 10 10:40:47 73+1+2 bytes received rather than 18 basically Jun 10 10:40:54 if you can sort that out I'll be happy Jun 10 10:41:22 lobur = new AgentSmith(); delete lobur; Jun 10 10:48:04 Ha, owned. Jun 10 10:56:04 cnh9yoyrhrc89042grhc74h9wme3fycr7b\2o78nw3c30aucdaoed Jun 10 10:56:08 * rm_you screams Jun 10 11:02:03 * GeneralAntilles gives rm_you a lollipop. Jun 10 11:04:08 me.com integration for maemo ;! Jun 10 11:04:32 Just use the AJAX apps? Jun 10 11:06:18 GeneralAntilles: https://wiki.maemo.org/Rm_you Jun 10 11:06:19 rm_you: whoa, that's a long password Jun 10 11:06:36 ack need to re-space Jun 10 11:06:39 sec Jun 10 11:08:14 GeneralAntilles: ok read that Jun 10 11:08:16 WTF Jun 10 11:08:31 i'm gonna ask some #GTK+ people to see if they know wtf he means Jun 10 11:08:52 Haha Jun 10 11:10:04 *(&@$&(^(*#&^#@ Jun 10 11:10:10 that was somewhat helpful Jun 10 11:10:12 There's got to be somebody around who can write some freaking documentation on this shit. Jun 10 11:10:15 i know that they DID use a gtk_menu Jun 10 11:10:25 that's finally a 100% certainty Jun 10 11:11:04 but i've had multiple people from #gtk+ tell me THIS ISN'T POSSIBLE Jun 10 11:11:11 FUCKING HELL Jun 10 11:11:30 maybe I should just give up, take my applet down, and say fuck you nokia, release your code or suck it Jun 10 11:11:38 lol Jun 10 11:11:51 What do they care? :P Jun 10 11:12:06 i feel like I was doing something ILLICIT / ILLEGAL just talking to him about this stuff Jun 10 11:12:17 like, it felt like a drug deal was going down in a backwater IRC channel Jun 10 11:12:19 i mean WTF Jun 10 11:12:36 since when do I have to sneak around to DEVELOP AN APPLET Jun 10 11:12:58 Since you fell into a pit of Nokia retardation. :P Jun 10 11:13:06 Who can you escalate this with? Jun 10 11:13:16 Somebody who might be empowered to get the ball rolling on something useful. Jun 10 11:13:19 rm_you: doing something they did not expect you to do is half the fun Jun 10 11:13:32 NO ONE Jun 10 11:13:33 thats the problem Jun 10 11:13:36 I dunno Jun 10 11:13:37 Quim already shot me down Jun 10 11:13:38 Try Quim? Jun 10 11:13:41 who the fuck else do i talk to? Jun 10 11:13:41 In the bug? Jun 10 11:13:48 That's no shoot-down. Jun 10 11:13:52 email him directly Jun 10 11:13:56 or hit up -developers again. Jun 10 11:14:02 GA: Trying Quim is generally pointless Jun 10 11:14:34 could always just decompile it and try to find the relevant function calls. that is if you are insane of course Jun 10 11:14:42 too insane Jun 10 11:14:55 although IDAPro will do it for you Jun 10 11:15:49 someone want to help me with that? Jun 10 11:16:28 decompilation? Jun 10 11:17:32 I'd try -developers, too. Jun 10 11:17:47 rm_you: Did you already ask on -developers? Jun 10 11:17:50 Explain the situation, try not to rant, be reasonable. Jun 10 11:18:13 There's a lot of Nokians paying attention to -developers. Jun 10 11:18:14 yes Jun 10 11:18:20 X-Fade: no one responded Jun 10 11:18:25 rm_you: What was the topic? Jun 10 11:18:29 sec Jun 10 11:19:04 topic: "Duplicating the Backlight statusbar app's "menu"" Jun 10 11:19:23 01/10/2008 Jun 10 11:19:33 i suppose i've waited long enough to repost Jun 10 11:19:47 You need a more attention-grabbing subject. Jun 10 11:19:57 Yeah, add at least GTK in the title ;) Jun 10 11:20:04 It's not itT, so mentioning the iPhone wont work. . . . :P Jun 10 11:21:14 rm_you: Did you look up who is responsible for the package? Jun 10 11:21:24 Provide a back-story so it'll at least appeal to some of the non-developer types. ;) Jun 10 11:21:32 Sometimes just mailing the maintainer does wonders.. Jun 10 11:21:51 X-Fade, shouldn't they be paying attention to bugzilla, though. :P Jun 10 11:22:35 GeneralAntilles: Well, yes. But there is no specific component for that package. And this isn't really a bug. Just an enquiry about info? :) Jun 10 11:22:58 I should write a novella of my plight Jun 10 11:23:02 Well, hopefully they might've noticed this: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3199 Jun 10 11:23:05 and post it to -developers Jun 10 11:23:23 Good plan, rm_you. Jun 10 11:24:27 rm_you: You should really use more technical terms in your descriptions. Jun 10 11:24:43 Say that your want to know about GTK+ HildonControlbar etc. etc. Jun 10 11:24:55 i did in the actual body... Jun 10 11:25:06 Reading your bug and all the comments doesn't tell us anything about that. Jun 10 11:25:31 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-January/031644.html Jun 10 11:26:10 yeah ok, but because of the title it probably didn't get noticed at all. Jun 10 11:29:40 rm_you: Just a quick question. If you handled the click on your controlbar, it shouldn't reach the underlying gtkmenuitem? Jun 10 11:36:34 rm_you: I will try finding you a copy of IDAPro, but it will be #1 pirated and #2 won't show the C code, just annotated assembly Jun 10 11:36:44 rm_you: Are you ok with both? Jun 10 11:38:52 yeah Jun 10 11:41:58 rm_you: http://www.torrentz.com/0c7fe58db2f90135dde58c7b5d9aa9ff3b1b387b Jun 10 11:42:26 rm_you: http://www.exetools.com/disassemblers.htm Jun 10 11:43:12 rm_you: http://www.cracklab.ru/f/index.php?action=vthread&forum=3&topic=4199 Jun 10 11:43:58 http://7sl.ru/2007/12/03/ida_pro_advanced_5.2__utilities_addon.html (will have to register for the forum) Jun 10 11:44:09 oh theres more from timeless Jun 10 11:44:14 updating wiki when i can Jun 10 11:45:57 Nokia guys are really better off just documenting or opening this Jun 10 11:46:07 i know <_< Jun 10 11:46:10 i think he agrees Jun 10 11:46:15 but he can't really do anything about it Jun 10 11:46:18 It is *not* an industrial secret by any measure Jun 10 11:46:30 Where's the missing documentation product for bugzilla? Jun 10 11:46:49 Nokia has no reason to keep that closed Jun 10 11:46:49 in fact, it should probably be a seperate library, eg HildonMenu Jun 10 11:46:49 * timeless nods Jun 10 11:47:27 dneary, ping Jun 10 11:47:40 GeneralAntilles: Pong Jun 10 11:47:57 GeneralAntilles: I'm going to have something to eat in a sec Jun 10 11:47:59 You're the docmaster, where do you want "missing"/requested documentation bugs? Jun 10 11:52:59 Hmm http://share.ovi.com/media/pasco.public/pasco.10384?sort=5 Can we have maemo on that, please? :) Jun 10 11:53:47 Bleh, and have it encumbered by all the cellular bullshit? Jun 10 11:54:18 GeneralAntilles: I'm sure that will be handled as blob. Just like dsme etc? Jun 10 11:59:41 XFade: A prototype? Jun 10 12:00:38 RST38h: I have no idea, I just saw a post about it. It is supposed to be a S60 touch device. Jun 10 12:00:51 I will take it if it has QWERTY keyboard =) Jun 10 12:00:57 Symbian is fine. Jun 10 12:01:16 No I think it is touch only. Jun 10 12:01:39 Wait, screenshots are 240x320 Jun 10 12:01:43 Too bad =( Jun 10 12:01:47 * aquatix is happy with his uiq3 phone Jun 10 12:01:57 why reinvent touchscreen on symbian ;) Jun 10 12:02:19 aquatix: I hope Nokia uses standard Symbian API for touch screen Jun 10 12:02:29 they used with s90 Jun 10 12:02:34 'cause otherwise it will be a royal mess Jun 10 12:02:35 7710 Jun 10 12:02:40 dunno about the new/coming Jun 10 12:02:57 and there actually is a s60 with touchscreen but it's for chinese char input Jun 10 12:03:07 and dunno if it was ever sold in numbers Jun 10 12:03:20 /useless trivia Jun 10 12:03:36 heh, just seen a girl with 7710 in the canteen Jun 10 12:03:51 7710 had a real nice screen for it's time Jun 10 12:04:02 people actually bought those? :) Jun 10 12:04:06 looks so Jun 10 12:04:10 yeah i know couple of people with it Jun 10 12:04:11 * aquatix tought it was interesting Jun 10 12:04:15 the case is weird though Jun 10 12:04:21 looks like a loaf of bread Jun 10 12:04:30 7700 was strange Jun 10 12:04:35 you can probably steer a car with it =) Jun 10 12:04:39 7710, the model that was actually sold, wasnt that weird Jun 10 12:05:37 GeneralAntilles: refresh the wiki Jun 10 12:12:13 GeneralAntilles: The plugin will be installed this evening. (europe evening, that is) Jun 10 12:12:24 Thanks! Jun 10 12:14:51 rm_you, lol Jun 10 12:15:09 GeneralAntilles: btw, do you ever sleep? Jun 10 12:15:21 Yes, but my schedule is weird. Jun 10 12:15:40 This week especially, AC's broken and I can't sleep in the heat. Waiting on maintenance to come sometime this morning. :\ Jun 10 12:15:49 You seem to be on a european schedule :) Jun 10 12:16:14 Yeah, I sorta sleep when I feel like it. Jun 10 12:16:37 Yeah, AC is worth it's weight in gold.... well.... almost. Jun 10 12:16:42 Lot of online classes frees me from having to go to frequent lectures. ;) Jun 10 12:16:53 Here it is. Jun 10 12:16:58 Not just because of the price of copper. :D Jun 10 12:18:40 Heh ;) Jun 10 12:22:22 That stupid bugjar thread seeped into Bugzilla. Jun 10 12:22:24 I don't get these idiots. Jun 10 12:27:27 * aquatix shrugs at the term `bugjar' Jun 10 12:27:34 apparently missed that on Jun 10 12:27:36 *one Jun 10 12:28:15 sjgadsby has been putting together weekly bugzilla summaries and posting them to itT and -developers. Jun 10 12:28:59 aquatix, the most recent one descended into this retardation: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/37270 Jun 10 12:33:52 GeneralAntilles: refresh page Jun 10 12:35:16 The perl cracks me up Jun 10 12:42:02 ``you can actually update your device to diablo prerelease Jun 10 12:42:03 images using application manager'' Jun 10 12:42:10 without flashing? Jun 10 12:42:19 SSU Jun 10 12:42:21 * aquatix should read more itt forums Jun 10 12:43:52 yeah, but i thought diable had to be flashed over os2008 before ssu became available Jun 10 12:44:24 The final Diablo will pretty much certainly be a FIASCO image Jun 10 12:44:31 as clingers like osso-email are problematic. Jun 10 12:45:19 GeneralAntilles: in normal world packages would be made to take care of it Jun 10 12:45:29 Of course Jun 10 12:45:41 But you can pretty much guarantee Nokia wont do that. Jun 10 12:45:52 o yes Jun 10 12:49:16 I think I'm gonna satisfy my play-needs by installing Debian on my 8GB microSD, and wait for the final Diablo before I reinstall :) Jun 10 12:50:29 i wonder whether nokia will release more updates when SSU is standard Jun 10 12:50:51 My hope is that they'll go over to more incremental updates. Jun 10 12:51:04 yeah Jun 10 12:51:23 * aquatix wouldn't mind a debian sid-like scenario Jun 10 12:51:27 For example the "long version string in app-manager" problem could have been pushed as an update long ago. Jun 10 12:52:18 Veggen: But they will probably do that. Now they need to spin another FIASCO for these updates. Which is not an optimal situation ;) Jun 10 12:52:34 (I fixed it myself by compiling new apt-stuff and application manager from svn, a while ago, and haven't had any problems with that. Jun 10 12:52:41 * aquatix loves the name `FIASCO' Jun 10 12:52:56 X-Fade: yah, I know. Jun 10 13:01:18 * lcuk wonders what the chances of converting basic x to be YUV would be and what sorts of problems would need to be overcome Jun 10 13:02:22 like all programs that expect rgb? ;-) Jun 10 13:02:52 I think the xv protocol can support rgb data, so maybe that would be simpler Jun 10 13:03:00 unless the hardware only supports yuv Jun 10 13:03:11 lol: Jun 10 13:03:13 alize: failed to set brightness to gconf: %status-bar-popup^@stab_me_display_settings Jun 10 13:03:15 YUV is a horrible general-purpose color space. Jun 10 13:03:22 The gamut is about 1/4 of RGB's. Jun 10 13:03:25 if you think about it, there arent that many places where specifically rgb would be reuiqred and those would need some conversion, but its rolling round my head Jun 10 13:03:28 "stab_me_display_settings" Jun 10 13:03:30 rofl Jun 10 13:04:02 mgedmin, when porting linux to new devices with unknown framebuffer (ie nintendo ds or something) you have an arbitary set of features available and work with them Jun 10 13:04:33 im just thinking of a general purpose sidestep to getting rapid screen updates everywhere :) Jun 10 13:05:32 i have already proven to myself that i will sacrifice color resolution for speed :) im just thinking about how or even if its possible for x - hell, even in first instance aim for greyscale only :) Jun 10 13:07:03 right, enough pie in the sky for now ;) ill b back after work Jun 10 13:07:52 * lcuk just needed to put it in peoples minds and see if it makes anything tick Jun 10 13:08:06 * rm_you tried that with Open Source... Jun 10 13:08:10 * rm_you wais to see if it worked Jun 10 13:08:23 * rm_you *waits to see if it worked Jun 10 13:10:29 lcuk: hi Jun 10 13:10:34 lcuk: when release? Jun 10 13:12:12 can someone explain how i should implement panning in gtk as done in maemo-mapper Jun 10 13:14:02 listen to mouse events, probably Jun 10 13:15:42 jitu3485: Why don't you just read the code? Jun 10 13:15:57 reading code is overrated Jun 10 13:16:42 Yeah, you might learn something, and that's no good. Jun 10 13:17:37 exactly Jun 10 13:17:51 reinwenting wheel is much better Jun 10 13:19:13 jitu3485, hold onto previous mouse coords, when you are in a Dragging mode use delta between previous and current mouse coords to give an offset (-ve it) for the tiles :) Jun 10 13:19:17 hrw, soon.. Jun 10 13:19:41 code is little bit difficult, i am trying that only from past few days Jun 10 13:20:09 luck^, i have done that but panning is not that smooth Jun 10 13:20:34 code is at URL: http://rafb.net/p/oBSI3U96.html Jun 10 13:20:49 well thats down to developer foo and how/what you are updating/refreshing :) i was also unimpressed by the smoothness of default code ;) Jun 10 13:21:04 * lcuk fixed it though Jun 10 13:21:10 jitu3485: I don't think loading images from disk on every redraw is a good idea Jun 10 13:21:31 also you seem to be leaking the last pixmap Jun 10 13:21:34 i think its perfect if you only redraw every few minutes ;) Jun 10 13:21:37 they could do something neat like intelligently cache nearby tiles Jun 10 13:22:08 anyway, sleep time Jun 10 13:22:09 anyway, evil internet dragging me away from work :P back later Jun 10 13:22:09 night Jun 10 13:22:19 'night rm_you Jun 10 13:24:03 mgedmin, are you saying like save tiles in cache or something else Jun 10 13:24:13 yes Jun 10 13:24:27 most of the time you're going to see the same tiles while dragging Jun 10 13:24:45 keep them in memory Jun 10 13:24:54 free them when they become invisible Jun 10 13:26:35 should i use libsoup to download tiles , maemo supports libsoup? Jun 10 13:51:40 http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/08/hands-on-with-the-digifriends-wibro-mid/ Jun 10 13:59:31 re Jun 10 13:59:49 inz, RST38h: did you chaps spot the mistake? Jun 10 14:00:04 lardman, sorry, been busy Jun 10 14:00:14 lardman, and still am... Jun 10 14:00:15 I may just give up on bluez-utils 3.20 and move to 3.28 (diablo) as that has the same api as the .32 code I based it on Jun 10 14:00:23 inz: no worries Jun 10 14:01:02 lardman, that seems like the logical choice Jun 10 14:01:27 johnx: annoying though, as we don't know when diablo is due, so not many people will be able to try it Jun 10 14:01:50 wasn't it supposed to be "before the end of Q2 2008"? Jun 10 14:01:52 plus I wasn't able to reboot when using diablo - had to reflash, and dsp programming often causes reboots Jun 10 14:01:56 IIRC, that makes it end of the month Jun 10 14:02:15 reboot/shutdown is working here Jun 10 14:02:20 not helpful, I know :/ Jun 10 14:02:26 it will probably happen at exactly the same time as the wimiax machine is released, any hints on dates for that? Jun 10 14:02:34 johnx: what device? Jun 10 14:02:42 n800 Jun 10 14:02:47 ah, mine was n810 Jun 10 14:03:00 but I can update my n800 as that's my dev machine anyway Jun 10 14:03:02 lardman, I really hope they don't wait for the wimax device O_o Jun 10 14:03:06 I'll try that this evening Jun 10 14:03:28 johnx: I think they will - a Nokian said that the other day iirc, and it's what happened with the N810 Jun 10 14:03:45 * aquatix hopes they continue updating diablo then Jun 10 14:03:54 and a new gecko version would be nice Jun 10 14:03:55 aquatix: I'm sure they will Jun 10 14:04:00 but that's idle hope Jun 10 14:04:06 it is what happened with the n810...I just hope it's not the case this time Jun 10 14:04:19 lardman: i mean, so they release a newer diablo then on the wimax version Jun 10 14:04:46 aquatix, the new gecko engine is in svn Jun 10 14:04:55 there are packages on itt, IIRC Jun 10 14:05:14 oh? Jun 10 14:05:16 cool Jun 10 14:05:26 package that i can `just' install on os2008? Jun 10 14:05:48 Gecko trunk is on track for 'Diablo+1' Jun 10 14:05:48 er, maybe? Jun 10 14:06:02 * aquatix searches itt Jun 10 14:06:08 WiMAX is supposed to be early July Jun 10 14:06:22 GAN800: What's the status on Diablo microB vs. Chinook microb? On stability, memory usage, etc... Jun 10 14:06:32 GAN800, they're not going to hold off until the actual wimax network is more solid? Jun 10 14:06:45 some improvement, it's pretty buggy right now, though. Jun 10 14:06:50 My microB seem to take >128MB virtual memory in very short time, nowadays. Jun 10 14:06:55 Veggen, I can answer that: stability seems fine, but memory usage is much worse Jun 10 14:07:01 ..on Chinook. Jun 10 14:07:03 it might be a simple leak that needs to get caught Jun 10 14:07:33 Personally, I'm more interested in getting the svn running in Diablo. Jun 10 14:07:51 Now _that_ is a BIG improvement. Jun 10 14:08:00 Hey ... how install diablo? Jun 10 14:08:10 I got R&D mode!!! ... Jun 10 14:08:22 and free space at / to archives Jun 10 14:08:32 Anunakin: If you have to ask that, then diablo is not for you :D Jun 10 14:08:47 and now? need a pass to http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo/ Jun 10 14:08:57 when will diablo be officially be out? Jun 10 14:09:27 X-Fade!! I not know the pass to this... Jun 10 14:09:36 I need it? Jun 10 14:09:53 You're not supposed to either. Jun 10 14:11:23 skibur, when it's ready/'Q2 2008'. That informartion wont change until it's actually out. . . . Jun 10 14:13:05 GAN800: it will change end of the month and not being out yet ;) Jun 10 14:13:19 ok cool :D i don''t know the username and password. :p Jun 10 14:13:45 aquatix, Q2 ends in August. Jun 10 14:14:29 GAN800: erm, then when did Q1 start? Jun 10 14:14:44 January 1st Jun 10 14:14:54 GAN800: then you can't count ;) Jun 10 14:14:58 Heh :) Jun 10 14:15:35 hola Jun 10 14:17:04 shit Jun 10 14:20:07 so is diablo worth the time to find the password? Jun 10 14:20:39 probably not Jun 10 14:20:55 I cant locate osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked Jun 10 14:21:17 It is not supposed to be used yet, so it can and will break your device at the moments you just can't have it. ;) Jun 10 14:21:50 X-Fade, should I file a bug about browser memory usage in diablo? Jun 10 14:21:54 o ok, its a leak Jun 10 14:22:05 Anunakin, you have an N810, correct? Jun 10 14:22:31 johnx: You can, I'm not sure what the policy is on filing bugs against not released software. Jun 10 14:22:42 lol Jun 10 14:22:45 yes Jun 10 14:22:48 a N810 Jun 10 14:22:51 sorry, called away Jun 10 14:23:00 File, file, file, johnx. Jun 10 14:23:18 GAN800, ok, I'll try and get a short way to reproduce it Jun 10 14:23:31 johnx: did you update the initfs? Jun 10 14:23:41 I believe not Jun 10 14:23:46 I've got a few. timeless added a 4.1 just for this purpose. They wont have a chance of getting fixed _after_ release. ;) Jun 10 14:23:56 johnx: ok Jun 10 14:24:18 I'm using fanoush's chinook bootmenu initfs Jun 10 14:25:26 johnx: that's not diablo specific though is it? Jun 10 14:25:41 hi qwerty12, been getting in trouble again? ;) Jun 10 14:26:07 hi lardman, I have no idea what you are on about ;).... Jun 10 14:26:10 * qwerty12 whistles Jun 10 14:26:24 i hope diablo is worth the wait Jun 10 14:26:27 GAN800: Diablos (unlocked) runs at N810? Jun 10 14:26:33 or I need a pass? Jun 10 14:26:44 skibur, it depends on what you want from it... Jun 10 14:26:49 Anunakin: you can't reboot, or at least I couldn't Jun 10 14:27:33 I've read 4/5 people use Diablo fine on N810, just reflash the Chinook kernel back Jun 10 14:27:38 N810 == rx-44 but you need a password for the repo. Jun 10 14:27:41 better browser and email client. easy way to update from versions Jun 10 14:27:56 qwerty12: interesting Jun 10 14:28:09 hum ... then not way... Jun 10 14:28:28 skibur, if you're using modest on chinook the only thing you're missing is apt-get'able software updates from Nokia Jun 10 14:28:57 Johnx: can I use fanoush bootmenu with R&D mode ? Jun 10 14:29:01 and the much improved application manager. Jun 10 14:29:09 Anunakin, yes Jun 10 14:29:22 GAN800, ah, right. there is that Jun 10 14:29:26 and improved finger keyboard Jun 10 14:29:39 but I need back to default boot to upgrade my FW...? Jun 10 14:29:40 GAN800, what are you referring to? Jun 10 14:29:51 that it actually shows up on a finger press? or something else? Jun 10 14:30:14 not using modest, but standard email client from os2008 Jun 10 14:30:23 The finger keyboard is easier to activate, use, and hit return from in Diablo Jun 10 14:30:40 much improved xterm, too. Jun 10 14:30:56 ok now that is a nice feature Jun 10 14:31:55 Anunakin, I'm not trying to be mean: if you don't understand what you're getting into, you shouldn't bother with diablo. there is a good chance you will just end up reflashing when it doesn't work. Jun 10 14:32:40 johnx +1 Jun 10 14:33:09 heh... Anunakin, ask qwerty12 how many times he's had to reflash since trying diablo. :D Jun 10 14:33:36 But but but that's because I like to mess up my N800 :p Jun 10 14:33:45 * lardman tries to remember how he installed Diablo... :) Jun 10 14:33:45 Well, he's the mine detector for the rest of us. :P Jun 10 14:34:04 In that case, I'm probably dead several times over Jun 10 14:34:07 and the parakeet in the coal mine, all rolled into one :D Jun 10 14:34:17 * aquatix pats qwerty12 - there's a good detector Jun 10 14:34:24 canary. . . . Jun 10 14:34:25 * aquatix waits for final diablo flash ;) Jun 10 14:34:29 ghehe Jun 10 14:34:58 s/parakeet/canary/g Jun 10 14:34:58 johnx meant: and the canary in the coal mine, all rolled into one :D Jun 10 14:35:07 GAN800, :P Jun 10 14:35:42 parakeet. . . . 'polly want a gas leak?' Jun 10 14:37:00 * qwerty12 hates mIRC & windows, I'm only using it to test out some stuff I want to run in school. After that, Linux and X-Chat for me :/ Jun 10 14:37:26 qwerty12, new skr1ptz to haxx0r with? :P Jun 10 14:37:34 there are better clients for windows Jun 10 14:37:40 hydrairc for example Jun 10 14:37:49 * aquatix just uses irssi ;) Jun 10 14:37:50 johnx, naturally, I am a kiddie :P Jun 10 14:38:01 aquatix, I need to get that X-Chat for windows sometime :/ Jun 10 14:38:35 http://www.silverex.org/download/ Jun 10 14:38:38 qwerty12, good luck wit t3h gibson Jun 10 14:38:39 there you go ;) Jun 10 14:38:55 aquatix, heh thanks Jun 10 14:39:02 aquatix: I use irssi too, but I need to figure out pgup in Terminal.app Jun 10 14:39:18 summatusmentis, a mac? Jun 10 14:39:21 summatusmentis: Escape-p/Escape-n for Pgup and Pgdn Jun 10 14:39:45 qwerty12, at least a mac is a proper unix box :P Jun 10 14:40:07 johnx, I just boot into Linux and I have a proper unix box ;P Jun 10 14:40:07 summatusmentis: time for iterm? ;) Jun 10 14:40:11 ccooke: <3 <3 <3 <3 Jun 10 14:40:14 Besides, I hate iPhones, not macs Jun 10 14:40:20 ccooke: I ow you like 600 beers Jun 10 14:40:32 summatusmentis: and that will work on the tablets, too :-) Jun 10 14:40:32 qwerty12: yes <3 macbook Jun 10 14:40:37 cool Jun 10 14:40:40 (I use irssi everywhere) Jun 10 14:40:48 ccooke: me too Jun 10 14:40:56 i just run it in a screen session on my server Jun 10 14:40:59 ccooke: tables have a pgup pgdn softkey iin xterm Jun 10 14:41:00 yep Jun 10 14:41:01 very convenient :) Jun 10 14:41:21 summatusmentis: ah, I use an n810 - I disabled the softkeys for more screen space Jun 10 14:41:38 I use an n810 too, but I want tab Jun 10 14:41:48 sort of a noob Jun 10 14:41:49 summatusmentis: Ctrl-I Jun 10 14:42:15 what's the key for esc? Jun 10 14:42:20 summatusmentis: (ctrl-i is the keycode that the tab key generates, so that'll work everywhere) Jun 10 14:42:28 ccooke: what? Jun 10 14:42:33 i could just use ctrl+i Jun 10 14:42:38 * aquatix tries Jun 10 14:42:39 summatusmentis: the back hardware key Jun 10 14:42:48 ccooke: you're now my god Jun 10 14:43:04 same as ctrl-j is enter, ctrl-h is delete... Jun 10 14:43:11 * aquatix hugs ccooke Jun 10 14:43:14 Does that mean you have to buy ccooke 1200 beers? Jun 10 14:43:15 *grin* Jun 10 14:43:27 * aquatix dcc's ccooke some fine whisky Jun 10 14:43:30 I'm in the US, so give me a few years Jun 10 14:43:43 Glad I could help :-) Jun 10 14:43:55 oh btw Jun 10 14:44:06 how can i disable that bar showing the keyboard mode Jun 10 14:44:14 abc/Abc/Fn and such Jun 10 14:44:21 it takes up way too much space Jun 10 14:44:26 aquatix: that's in the control panel Jun 10 14:44:39 *reminds himself* Jun 10 14:44:52 ah yeah, i think i even saw that once Jun 10 14:44:53 ccooke: some ctrl+<> for Ins? Jun 10 14:45:19 Text input settings -> Languages -> Settings Jun 10 14:45:26 Turn off all the checkboxes in there Jun 10 14:46:04 hrhr: don't think I've ever used that one Jun 10 14:46:14 hrhr: ctrl plus what? Jun 10 14:46:38 hm, but auto-capitalisation can be handy Jun 10 14:46:54 but i guess the bar won't go away then Jun 10 14:47:11 aquatix: yeah Jun 10 14:47:19 also it screws up working in the terminal Jun 10 14:47:32 the bar? it does Jun 10 14:47:40 i don't have auto capitalisation in the term Jun 10 14:47:45 if you meant that Jun 10 14:48:19 there, no stupid bar resizing my terminal Jun 10 14:57:01 Hmm, anyone know where the svn repo for the make_rootimage.sh, dlocate.sh etc are now? https://stage.maemo.org/svn/integration/trunk/rootimagescripts/ has gone into oblivion. Jun 10 14:58:21 has anyone updated the browser to a more recent firefox3 rendering engine? supposedly most of the performance tweaks got added to the later betas Jun 10 14:58:47 Dunno about that but Navi has some MicroB svn packages which boost the speed Jun 10 14:59:32 Nvr mind, found the scripts Jun 10 15:01:15 gentooer, yup. that's what microb-svn is. check itt for packages Jun 10 15:01:21 it's not stable of course, yet :) Jun 10 15:03:27 Dunno about that, microb-svn was a whole lot better than this browserd stuff. Jun 10 15:04:16 thank you :) Jun 10 15:05:36 so is microb developed by the community or nokia? or both? Jun 10 15:06:02 microb is developed by the mozilla community Jun 10 15:06:13 ah ok Jun 10 15:06:25 and the UI part is done by nokia Jun 10 15:06:32 i.e browser-ui Jun 10 15:11:09 * qwerty12 new rootfs is flashing but I'm sure it isn't going to work, I jacked the /var/lib/dpkg from chinook :/ Jun 10 15:11:30 hmm Jun 10 15:11:43 it probably won't know what's installed :/ Jun 10 15:12:04 It doesn't want to boot anyway :) Jun 10 15:12:20 Either nokia's scripts or me :/ Jun 10 15:12:49 I'll just reflash chinook and install the diablo apt :) Jun 10 15:13:06 And then make a rootfs.jffs2 and carry on testing lardman's stuff Jun 10 15:23:56 * qwerty12 is positively shocked. straight after a reflash, gnome recognised my N800 as a Mass Storage and not a Music Player and it didn't bring up that POS rhythmbox. Jun 10 15:25:14 how does it differentiate? Jun 10 15:26:14 Well, I get a nice USB icon and gnome doesn't bring up rhythmbox which starts scanning 2 memory cards and 1 partition and slows everything down. Jun 10 15:34:54 probably the presence of media files? Jun 10 15:35:20 My memory cards had the same files on them before and after flashing Jun 10 15:35:26 i.e tv programs and music Jun 10 15:35:29 oh, wierd Jun 10 15:36:07 Heh, I'm not complaining :) Jun 10 15:36:08 qwerty12: I've just upgraded to diablo, will build a 3.28 bluez-utils, which has the same api as the .32 code afaict Jun 10 15:36:22 Brilliant Jun 10 15:36:51 Well, "This release fixes an alignment issue in the SDP server and introduces the new D-Bus API."# Jun 10 15:37:00 but I don't know if that is relevant Jun 10 15:37:04 .28? or.32? Jun 10 15:37:13 That's from .29 onwards Jun 10 15:37:41 qwerty12: did you run into a missing osso-uri-110n-mr0 package, when installing diablo? Jun 10 15:37:44 well I'm happy with whatever Nokia have tested to be honest, change in dbus api sounds painful Jun 10 15:37:52 summatusmentis, no Jun 10 15:38:07 lardman, But Nokia do have .32 in their svn too :) Jun 10 15:38:52 yeah, but it will probably require lots of other things to be upgraded too (not lots, but some) Jun 10 15:38:58 I can't be bothered, I just want to work on sbc Jun 10 15:40:15 is the N96 an omap2420 too? Jun 10 15:40:47 I'm hoping that your svn code works on .32 :). Btw, do you have any new binaries. Here is what I wish to do, set up a2dp, install .32 and install the sbcenc.o for diablo. But do you have any updated binaries or will you build them with your release for .28? Jun 10 15:41:23 I've updated the sbc code, so it shouldn't segfault anymore, well it might but it will be a different segfault Jun 10 15:41:40 oh... there's the issue, it erased my /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Jun 10 15:41:42 lardman, Sites are saying that it is but I hope not :/ Jun 10 15:41:47 you can build your own .32 if you fancy it, otherwise I'll test using .28 and update the code as needed to work with that Jun 10 15:42:12 lardman, I'll just try out the .28 binaries, you know what you are doing Jun 10 15:42:17 qwerty12: I was just wondering if it was an omap3xxx, whether Nokia were close to using that platform, etc. Jun 10 15:42:29 qwerty12: Ok, I'll let you know how I get on Jun 10 15:42:35 Thanks Jun 10 15:42:57 summatusmentis, I had the same problem, I think you can get back the defaults (if not, I'll give my .list file when I reinstall diablo) Jun 10 15:43:27 summatusmentis: yeah, annoying that, I then just added the certified* back in and told it to get on with it Jun 10 15:44:17 lardman: the certified* ?I'm not seeing certitifed* in /etc/apt Jun 10 15:44:41 /etc/apt/source*/hildon* Jun 10 15:44:44 something like that? Jun 10 15:44:46 no file there? Jun 10 15:45:16 I just started typing my response in bash on my n810 Jun 10 15:45:28 there's nothing in the file there Jun 10 15:45:48 ok, so add in: "deb http://blah ./" Jun 10 15:46:13 right, that's what I'm trying to find now :) Jun 10 15:46:36 Heh, me just mirrors the latest diablo release and transfers the debs there and uses a little trick fiferboy told me to install with and then I add back the first mirror so I can get the leaked nokia internal stuff like nitro, ftd muhahahaha Jun 10 15:46:40 not certified Jun 10 15:46:48 catalogue, sorry Jun 10 15:47:41 lardman: the only file in /etc/apt/source*/hildon* is hildon-applicaiton-manager.list Jun 10 15:47:47 which is empty Jun 10 15:48:02 in that file, you need to add some proper repositories Jun 10 15:48:05 add that line to the empty file Jun 10 15:48:18 Someone just share their diablo hildon-applicaiton-manager.list Jun 10 15:48:19 the same line you added to it before you started the upgrade process Jun 10 15:48:25 I'd do it but I'm on chinook atm Jun 10 15:48:46 "deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo/ ./" Jun 10 15:49:06 as in echo "as above" > hildon-applicaiton-manager.list Jun 10 15:49:27 We are all copying each other with hildon-applicaiton-manager.list :P Jun 10 15:49:46 s/hildon-applicaiton-manager.list/hildon-application-manager.list for correctness Jun 10 15:49:48 well if it works, then that's fine by me Jun 10 15:49:50 :) Jun 10 15:49:55 I mean the spelling :) Jun 10 15:50:12 summatusmentis spelled it wrong and I copied his spelling and then you copied the same word too :) Jun 10 15:50:54 ah, probably one of those contagious typos ;) Jun 10 15:50:58 * qwerty12 is scared by bugzilla. I put on my blanket before entering the maemo bugzilla Jun 10 15:51:10 * lardman needs a spell-checker in his irc client Jun 10 15:51:25 lardman, xchat has one Jun 10 15:51:28 & Jun 10 15:51:31 ^ even Jun 10 15:51:45 in fact, xchat has a spell checker that doesn't have the word xchat in its dictionary Jun 10 15:51:50 xchat is not free on Windows and I use that at work Jun 10 15:51:52 thanks guys, it's working now Jun 10 15:52:00 lardman, there is a free version built from source Jun 10 15:52:03 + I can't be arsed to compile it myself Jun 10 15:52:12 :) Jun 10 15:52:19 http://www.silverex.org/ Jun 10 15:52:20 !@$# I should've been working on SoC Jun 10 15:52:39 http://www.silverex.org - the reason no one bothers to crack the windows version Jun 10 15:52:59 Btw, do we have disassemblers around without ethics? Jun 10 15:53:02 ah ok, will install that eventually then Jun 10 15:53:14 s/disassemblers/ people who can disassemble Jun 10 16:22:10 Heh, I'm unsure about flight mode anymore :). Switchonbt can enable bluetooth in flight mode and icd has a option to enable wlan in flight mode. Jun 10 16:23:04 hrm Jun 10 16:23:10 can anyone help me connecting a keyboard? Jun 10 16:23:14 to my n770 ? Jun 10 16:23:25 can i connect it using a powered hub ? Jun 10 16:31:48 summatusmentis, need a hildon-application-manager.list? I've reinstalled the latest version of diablo. Jun 10 16:32:21 GeneralAntilles: Ping? Jun 10 16:32:43 GeneralAntilles: Can you have a look at User:Dneary and tell me what you think of moving to 3 columns? Jun 10 16:32:50 I'd like to do it tonight, if you agree Jun 10 16:35:55 Does anyone know if that tracker port is still being worked on? Jun 10 16:37:32 qwerty12: no, I think it's fixed, but I might need it again :) Jun 10 16:38:05 summatusmentis, ok :) Jun 10 16:38:23 I need to enable redpill but my settings hiding >.< Jun 10 16:38:28 qwerty12: are you installing via the repo, like everyone else? Jun 10 16:38:32 just use apt-get Jun 10 16:38:57 summatusmentis, I know how to install diablo ;). I'm mirroring the debs onto a mmc Jun 10 16:40:16 qwerty12: no, I know you know how to install debian Jun 10 16:40:21 s/debian/diablo/ Jun 10 16:40:21 summatusmentis meant: qwerty12: no, I know you know how to install diablo Jun 10 16:40:35 I meant use apt-get instead of redpill Jun 10 16:41:32 Ah sorry, I may have to. Stupid application manager wont show me the settings. I think Nokia crippled it on purpose, I'll install my legal message removal mod and try again :) Jun 10 16:43:27 erm... double desktops?? Jun 10 16:43:53 It happens during install, I just reboot Jun 10 16:45:18 I didn't get to completely install though... :-/ Jun 10 16:45:49 I've installed it 8 times and I've only had 2 failed installs, what's your problem? Jun 10 16:51:00 I think it keeps resetting the source list, and then removes the user/pass Jun 10 16:52:32 Put the diablo repo with user/pass in /etc/apt/sources.list Jun 10 16:52:42 not the hildon-application-manager.list Jun 10 16:53:10 oh... that would make the difference I suppose :) Jun 10 16:53:39 As the hildon-application-manager.list gets over written while installing, it kinda defeats the point :P Jun 10 16:53:48 (I did the same thing once :)) Jun 10 16:53:58 yeah... noone tells you that :) Jun 10 16:54:24 But I just mirror the repo onto a memory card so I don't have to fuss around with the user & pass and shove a line in sources.list, never failed for me yet Jun 10 16:54:47 * qwerty12 loves having nitro and ftd Jun 10 16:54:53 Jun 10 16:54:56 me loves doing that Jun 10 17:10:14 any deals on the new n810 wimax edition anywhere? Jun 10 17:10:25 any news on the release date? Jun 10 17:10:39 I was unaware it was out 0.o Jun 10 17:11:27 http://www.google.com/products?q=nokia+n810+wimax+edition&oe=utf-8&scoring=p Jun 10 17:12:00 The only one proper result I see is a preorder Jun 10 17:12:06 yeah, i like the 'Unlocked Cell Phone' one Jun 10 17:12:23 http://www.provantage.com/nokia-02700t6~4NKIA1EA.htm Jun 10 17:12:31 Oh, hello KotCzarny, never see you hiding in the background :D :) Jun 10 17:12:38 hi hi Jun 10 17:12:42 i'm always lurking Jun 10 17:12:43 :) Jun 10 17:12:48 if these are all preoders than when is it due out>? Jun 10 17:13:06 it will be when it will be Jun 10 17:13:14 the reason it's hard to find release info is because no one knows Jun 10 17:13:25 I could make up a random date if you like though. :D Jun 10 17:13:39 yeah, like 2008Q3 Jun 10 17:13:52 or yesterday Jun 10 17:14:07 yesterday, cool, so diablo is out now! ;) Jun 10 17:14:14 or the day after tomorrow Jun 10 17:14:28 lardman: not now but yesterday Jun 10 17:14:29 tomorrow never comes Jun 10 17:14:34 and today it's again now out Jun 10 17:14:35 until it's too late Jun 10 17:14:37 KotCzarny: damn, missed it Jun 10 17:14:39 s/now/not Jun 10 17:15:02 I need a remote control for life Jun 10 17:15:22 Meh, the N810W is just a niche thing to me, I live in london, who tf has heard about WiMAX here? :P. I'm waiting for the real thing, N900 Jun 10 17:15:25 can someone make one for the N8X0? Jun 10 17:15:53 navi: bt Jun 10 17:16:03 i mean bt--irda Jun 10 17:16:26 That's a remote for TVs and shtick :| Jun 10 17:16:36 I want one for _life_ Jun 10 17:17:01 don't buy rental tvs? Jun 10 17:17:04 ;) Jun 10 17:17:07 Ask Adam Sandler for the one in Click then Jun 10 17:18:03 lol Jun 10 17:18:04 lardman, I'm gonna make a rootfs.jffs2 backup and then I'd be happy to test out whatever on 3.32 tomorrow :) Jun 10 17:18:35 navi: then just install irda--life adapter too Jun 10 17:18:44 ah, I see Jun 10 17:18:48 Sweet. Jun 10 17:19:04 qwerty12: may as well stick with .28 until Nokia release it imo Jun 10 17:19:48 Well, "Release of bluez-libs-3.32 and bluez-utils-3.32.This release fixes some bugs in the input and audio support" Jun 10 17:20:00 fixes in audio support is good for me :) Jun 10 17:20:32 is it possible to install gcc in maemo? Jun 10 17:20:36 yes Jun 10 17:20:47 KotCzarny: how? Jun 10 17:20:52 qwerty12: fair enough Jun 10 17:21:03 install/enable proper repo, then just install what you want Jun 10 17:21:16 edistar, add the maemo chinook sdk repo and apt-get install build-essential for the easy way out Jun 10 17:21:16 KotCzarny: how do I know which repo to use? Jun 10 17:21:17 and don't forget to disable that repo when you are done Jun 10 17:21:28 edistar, gronmayer (link in this channel's topic) Jun 10 17:22:04 qwerty12: I am running OS 2007 HE Jun 10 17:22:22 Hmm, the Bora SDK repo then? Jun 10 17:22:42 (If Bora = OS2007) Jun 10 17:23:24 well sbcenc works without problems :) Jun 10 17:23:32 wow Jun 10 17:23:33 woo! Jun 10 17:23:38 That's brilliant :) Jun 10 17:23:41 lardman, what was the cause? Jun 10 17:23:43 time to try installing the updated bluez Jun 10 17:23:45 Now how about with mplayer? :) Jun 10 17:24:13 (not rushing, I'm just wondering if it works: :)) Jun 10 17:24:13 KotCzarny: I still don;t know what's wrong with the 3.20 version, I've installed diablo which has the same api as .32 on which I based the dsp code Jun 10 17:24:27 qwerty12: getting there :) Jun 10 17:24:42 Great, thanks for the work and everything :) Jun 10 17:25:22 I wonder if Nokia will put your work in the final diablo? (If they do, they damn sure better credit you for doing the work nokia can't be arsed to do) Jun 10 17:25:34 Or if not final diablo, next os :/ Jun 10 17:26:43 qwerty12: dont seem to find the right repo Jun 10 17:27:12 lardman: about installing 3rd party dsp plugins: http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1943 Jun 10 17:27:52 I'm a bad debian packager so I'd just use an echo line or sed... Jun 10 17:28:04 kulve: is that the one about an api to make changes to dsp_dld_avs.conf? Jun 10 17:28:17 lardman: yes Jun 10 17:28:34 lardman: not sure about the "api" part though.. A method anyway Jun 10 17:30:07 kulve: yeah, might be of use, but not necesarily for Nokia to do, we could just as easily come up with some way Jun 10 17:32:38 one could actually do a separate package that implements what I've suggested there.. Jun 10 17:33:45 it's of course easier to do with sed in the postinst/rm scripts but I guess those are more eager to cause weird problems Jun 10 17:34:04 alsa-lib: pcm_bluetooth.c:1589:(bluetooth_init) BT_GETCAPABILITIES failed : Input/output error(5) Jun 10 17:34:33 kulve: yeah, certainly something to look at. My sed skills are not too wonderful though Jun 10 17:35:01 right, not sure what that error is all about, but I have to go do the washing up Jun 10 17:35:19 Not sure if it is related but I do have libasound2 recompiled with the bluez 3.32 and vice versa Jun 10 17:35:33 will be back in a bit to track it down - might be some call into the decoder state that is not used by sbcenc, but which is by the main a2dp code Jun 10 17:35:35 kulve: or grep -v and echo >> Jun 10 17:35:37 :) Jun 10 17:36:22 KotCzarny: yeah, but implementing things like (if line foo doesn't exist, add it) etc are a bit ugly.. Jun 10 17:36:45 hard to read and easy to cause problems if you grep happens to match some other 3rd party app Jun 10 17:36:51 sed will do the same Jun 10 17:37:38 I'm doing that with sed (iirc) in ogg-supports postinst/rm scripts, but like I said, I think it's very ugly :) Jun 10 17:37:47 but it works Jun 10 17:37:49 ;) Jun 10 17:37:53 Bye all. Jun 10 17:37:57 at least for most ;) Jun 10 17:38:10 who is complaining ;) Jun 10 17:38:12 if some other package tries to add ogg there too, then we are in trouble Jun 10 17:38:40 that's what 'conflicts' in .debs are for Jun 10 17:38:41 :) Jun 10 17:39:44 I can't foresee what conflicting packages others might implement. And people might not bother to put my package to conflicts -list as it's not official maemo package Jun 10 17:40:09 that's what bugzilla is for Jun 10 17:40:11 ;) Jun 10 17:46:58 Kot Jun 10 17:47:01 kulve Jun 10 17:47:37 whut? Jun 10 17:47:57 whut? Jun 10 17:52:35 nuthin Jun 10 17:52:49 nutt. Jun 10 17:53:56 nutt. Jun 10 17:57:02 you have a secret speech or sth? Jun 10 17:57:31 nupe. Jun 10 18:07:53 sudo find /house -name "n810" Jun 10 18:08:04 has anyone in here seen my nokia? Jun 10 18:08:21 it's where you put it yesterday before sleep Jun 10 18:08:56 i only had it earlier on the way home :S Jun 10 18:09:07 check in the car then Jun 10 18:09:41 hmm (I) ahhh Jun 10 18:10:52 it was in the tins cupboard :S Jun 10 18:10:56 :) Jun 10 18:11:21 * lcuk doesnt normally have such a mental block Jun 10 18:11:45 arent you up early kot? Jun 10 18:12:18 kind of Jun 10 18:12:29 i got sleepy early Jun 10 18:12:41 and because of that i wasn't able to sleep all day long Jun 10 18:13:05 yer it throws everything out Jun 10 18:13:18 hi all Jun 10 18:13:46 hi andy80 Jun 10 18:15:00 * lcuk dives straight into shed tonight Jun 10 18:15:14 :) Jun 10 18:15:19 breakfast time Jun 10 18:15:42 * KotCzarny kills a banana Jun 10 18:18:50 is there any way for the compiler to create a jumptable with function names as char * from a file its compiled so i can see it from code, or would this need me to make a special took to generate it for me Jun 10 18:19:32 hmm Jun 10 18:19:36 debug symbols? Jun 10 18:19:44 ie, i have a list of functions which should be available in a menu, but i dont want to have to maintain the function and the jumptable Jun 10 18:20:15 if i add a new function it should be usable - but debug symbols would work ... Jun 10 18:20:29 hmm Jun 10 18:20:39 they give offsets and names - but i would have to parse the elf myself at runtime (which isnt that bad) Jun 10 18:20:43 i think jumptables for functions are possible Jun 10 18:20:56 i mean tables Jun 10 18:22:12 jumptables are fine, but i have to create the function in one file, go to the jumptable file, add the new entry and compile both files. i just want the table autogenerated and include global functions with a particular pattern Jun 10 18:23:10 lcuk: add a makefile rule to do something with perl and nm Jun 10 18:23:25 i guess i have been pampered with *spit*, but activex for all its deficiencies did allow public instpection and calling of custom interfaces Jun 10 18:23:30 or maybe not nm Jun 10 18:24:11 so my new 810 just showed up Jun 10 18:24:32 cool Jun 10 18:24:41 my desktop (hardy) sees it as a 2g removable storage Jun 10 18:24:49 and? Jun 10 18:25:02 but gpartd wants to write a disklable and format it Jun 10 18:25:05 is that ok? Jun 10 18:25:09 ok mgedmin, lets see if i understand (memory lesson) make calls whichever tools are required to perform functions to make the project. if one of those tools (with correct params) can parse and produce a c source file containing the jumptable then i win :D ? Jun 10 18:25:37 Maximander: factory partition table is broken, remove, recreate Jun 10 18:25:51 KotCzarny, it's not in all cases Jun 10 18:25:53 (and obviously include the generated file in the normal c rules) Jun 10 18:26:09 johnx: name one? Jun 10 18:26:26 is that a question? Jun 10 18:26:27 lcuk: wild guess: preprocessing? (cpp) Jun 10 18:26:32 johnx: yeah Jun 10 18:26:39 lcuk: yes Jun 10 18:26:55 as far as i saw people's reports all of them were broken Jun 10 18:27:07 out of the box, what filesystems does it support? ntfs? ext3? Jun 10 18:27:09 people don't complain unless their device is broken Jun 10 18:27:21 johnx: yeah, corruption Jun 10 18:27:21 Maximander, fat16/32, ext2/3 Jun 10 18:27:27 thanks Jun 10 18:27:27 lcuk: can't you use dlopen/dlsym? Jun 10 18:27:29 yes KotCzarny :) and thank you mgedmin, ill look into that. the good thing if i do it as a c file would be if the intermediate step isnt available it can be edited by hand Jun 10 18:27:43 maximinder: any filesystem as long you copy proper modules to it Jun 10 18:27:44 :) Jun 10 18:27:46 at least something that supports symlinks Jun 10 18:27:46 KotCzarny, what I'm saying is, you wouldn't hear any complaints from people with working devices Jun 10 18:28:03 well, I need to get it on wireless before I can install anything Jun 10 18:28:08 hi jott :) dlopen/dlsym? Jun 10 18:28:13 * lcuk googles Jun 10 18:28:23 johnx: they may not know, but eveyone with n810 i asked had it Jun 10 18:28:30 lcuk: http://linux.die.net/man/3/dlopen Jun 10 18:28:38 see the example Jun 10 18:29:34 Maximander, just check before formatting :) Jun 10 18:29:53 some (all?) n810s have a parition that extends beyond the physical device Jun 10 18:29:59 will the extra writes of ext3's journal cause any real lifetime reduction to the solid state storage? Jun 10 18:30:27 jott! bless you and your linux skills - i've been pondering how i would do that, but thats not this specific problem though it will be VERY helpful when i do allow full proper modules eventually Jun 10 18:30:54 all writes reduce the lifetime of flash storage Jun 10 18:31:05 but not that much Jun 10 18:31:12 and vfat is worse anyway Jun 10 18:31:17 I would be a little worried about using a journal on the built in card, since it can't be replaced Jun 10 18:31:45 I absolutely abuse my SD cards though :) Jun 10 18:31:59 * lcuk calls the police on johnx Jun 10 18:32:09 johnx: how long do they last usually? Jun 10 18:32:17 * Maximander reformats again, back to ext2 Jun 10 18:32:19 depends on abuse Jun 10 18:32:29 ext2 could be worse Jun 10 18:32:33 in some usage patterns Jun 10 18:32:34 :> Jun 10 18:32:38 MangoFusion_, my cards? I only had one die completely so far Jun 10 18:32:53 I swapped heavily to it while using it as the rootfs for my zaurus Jun 10 18:32:59 isn't ext3 pretty much just ext2 + journal? Jun 10 18:33:04 I'm not 100% sure that killed it though Jun 10 18:33:10 Maximander, yes Jun 10 18:33:12 yeah, but fsck often Jun 10 18:33:27 and nits are prone to sudden reboots Jun 10 18:33:29 ;) Jun 10 18:33:38 also, mount it with noatime and possibly nodiratime Jun 10 18:33:54 johnx: noatime doesn't imply nodiratime? Jun 10 18:34:04 no idea Jun 10 18:34:10 hence, possibly Jun 10 18:34:12 :P Jun 10 18:34:29 there is no nodiratime in mount manual even Jun 10 18:34:30 :) Jun 10 18:34:52 KotCzarny, google, first result has your answer :P Jun 10 18:35:40 yeah Jun 10 18:35:41 implies Jun 10 18:45:36 is there a list of which processes are monitored by the watchdog? Jun 10 18:46:08 I think you can find them by grepping for dsme in /etc/init.d/* Jun 10 18:47:11 * mgedmin wonders why his tablet is offline Jun 10 18:47:39 wifi sometimes hangs Jun 10 18:47:39 is online now, hm Jun 10 18:47:47 * jott thinks the mgedmins watchdog just knew what would happen :) Jun 10 18:47:49 to the point of reconnecting it manually Jun 10 18:48:03 thx marius :) you are offline because the watchdog knew you were talking about it ;) Jun 10 18:48:04 it sufficed to unlock the keys and touch the screen Jun 10 18:48:29 lcuk: hehe same stupid thought ;) Jun 10 18:48:42 as long as i wasnt the only one Jun 10 18:49:13 IIRC you start the daemon with dsmetool when you want dsme (the process watchdog) to watch ror it Jun 10 18:49:17 s/ror/for Jun 10 18:49:19 * mgedmin waits Jun 10 18:49:30 no more sed-bots? yay! Jun 10 18:49:41 you forgot ending slash Jun 10 18:49:42 :) Jun 10 18:49:54 not needed in vi! Jun 10 18:49:56 vi rules! Jun 10 18:50:23 but everywhere else it's needed :) Jun 10 18:51:54 especially in your mom Jun 10 18:52:00 * summatusmentis is done being crdue Jun 10 18:52:10 s/crdue/crude/ Jun 10 18:52:29 I quitt a typings Jun 10 18:53:31 no infobot yay! Jun 10 18:53:51 hey guys.. anyone uses canola as "internet radio" player?... i.e. to hear a ogg stream? Jun 10 18:54:26 what does r&d mode do? Is there a reason I should turn it off? Jun 10 18:54:41 yeah, it's not needed Jun 10 18:54:52 for one it introduces boot delay Jun 10 18:55:12 so does fanoush's boot meny Jun 10 18:55:14 menu* Jun 10 18:55:19 I hear it also disables some power management functions Jun 10 18:55:36 So if you don't require it, it's not a good thing to have on... Jun 10 18:57:24 hmm Jun 10 19:00:40 dyslexics of the world untie! Jun 10 19:00:55 dyxlesics! Jun 10 19:01:14 procrastinators of the world unite...maybe tomorrow... Jun 10 19:01:14 but wasn't it dyslectics? Jun 10 19:01:28 why on earth did they make the name of their condition such a long word? Jun 10 19:02:08 just because Jun 10 19:02:30 if you like you can call them dysli Jun 10 19:02:57 or dixie Jun 10 19:03:25 thanks for your permission :P Jun 10 19:03:31 * KotCzarny nods Jun 10 19:04:31 any here working with scratchbox? Jun 10 19:04:43 probably everyone Jun 10 19:05:02 ok Jun 10 19:05:49 I trying to use qemu with poky patchs for N800... but it not running Jun 10 19:06:10 not running with scratchbox Jun 10 19:06:20 why do you need poky patches? Jun 10 19:06:27 I think this need another patchs Jun 10 19:06:42 because I getting errors like it: Jun 10 19:07:14 get your quemu from: http://scratchbox.org/~jhakala/unofficial/ Jun 10 19:07:16 qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - exiting Jun 10 19:07:30 and use qemu-eabi-cvs-m Jun 10 19:07:39 or whatever it shows like Jun 10 19:08:42 KotCzarny, I don't see qemu at that link.. Jun 10 19:08:53 johnx: it's in one of those toolchains Jun 10 19:08:59 ah Jun 10 19:09:06 KotCzarny, this link not have qemu!!! but thanks this have newer gcc tools Jun 10 19:09:09 (probably) Jun 10 19:09:22 I using this qemu ... Jun 10 19:09:23 KotCzarny, this link not have qemu!!! but thanks this have newer gcc tools Jun 10 19:09:28 http://setanta.wordpress.com/2007/11/20/qemu-arm-eabi-no-scratchbox/ Jun 10 19:09:33 old. Jun 10 19:09:50 form svn Jun 10 19:09:58 still old Jun 10 19:10:02 vn co https://qemu-arm-eabi.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/qemu-arm-eabi/trunk qemu-arm-eabi Jun 10 19:10:06 svn co https://qemu-arm-eabi.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/qemu-arm-eabi/trunk qemu-arm-eabi Jun 10 19:10:10 and doesn't work for you Jun 10 19:10:15 no Jun 10 19:10:28 qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - exiting Jun 10 19:10:34 with some apps Jun 10 19:10:44 and at compile time Jun 10 19:11:23 Is it same as your qemu? Jun 10 19:11:33 ? Jun 10 19:12:49 [sbox-chexp: ~] > qemu-arm-cvs-m -V Jun 10 19:12:49 qemu-arm version 0.9.0-cvs, Copyright (c) 2003-2007 Fabrice Bellard Jun 10 19:13:11 well, maybe mine is older :) Jun 10 19:13:16 but works Jun 10 19:13:54 also, I really doubt any of the file on that page you linked have qemu in them... Jun 10 19:14:08 johnx, i got it from that page Jun 10 19:14:13 maybe it was moved to official Jun 10 19:14:31 could you run dpkg -S qemu-arm-cvs-m Jun 10 19:14:55 i installed it from .tar.gz Jun 10 19:14:59 because i don't run debian Jun 10 19:15:06 [sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~] > qemu-arm-eabi-sb2 Jun 10 19:15:07 qemu-arm version 0.9.0-cvs, Copyright (c) 2003-2007 Fabrice Bellard Jun 10 19:16:00 re Jun 10 19:16:16 my qemu runs x48 emulator .... Jun 10 19:16:28 qemu-arm-cvs-m not run Jun 10 19:17:44 johnx, I think the qemu with N800 patchs from poky project is better to compile and test apps Jun 10 19:18:05 but this not runs with sbos Jun 10 19:18:07 sbox Jun 10 19:18:12 ok Jun 10 19:18:27 this need a param Jun 10 19:18:34 -M n800 to run Jun 10 19:24:27 Look it: Jun 10 19:24:28 qemu-arm-n800-poky Jun 10 19:24:28 qemu-arm version 0.9.1, Copyright (c) 2003-2008 Fabrice Bellard Jun 10 19:24:55 is the N800 patches going to be submitted back? Jun 10 19:25:08 hi guys Jun 10 19:25:30 anyone knows when diablo will be released ? Jun 10 19:25:34 no Jun 10 19:25:47 just kidding GeneralAntilles Jun 10 19:25:52 :) Jun 10 19:25:54 they are NOT going to be submitted back? Jun 10 19:26:00 GeneralAntilles: diablo isn't nearly as exciting as you make it out to be :) Jun 10 19:26:15 summatusmentis, I tried to tell you Jun 10 19:26:21 lol Jun 10 19:26:24 ds3, I'm sure that was aimed at gourdin Jun 10 19:26:32 okie Jun 10 19:27:02 summatusmentis, though at least you have modest now and can remove the old email client Jun 10 19:27:48 johnx: I've got two different installs Jun 10 19:28:06 ah, clever Jun 10 19:28:20 I need to buy a couple more SD cards so I have space to play Jun 10 19:28:21 that's thanks to GeneralAntilles Jun 10 19:28:29 or an n810 Jun 10 19:28:40 sd cards seem cheaper :) Jun 10 19:28:44 have the supplies of cheap N800s dried up yet? Jun 10 19:28:50 (new ones) Jun 10 19:28:53 diablo pales in comparison to the windows ce emulator. http://www.cuppadev.co.uk/10062008330.jpg Jun 10 19:29:11 ...or maybe not Jun 10 19:29:14 ;) Jun 10 19:29:19 heh Jun 10 19:29:20 who would need such atrocity.. Jun 10 19:29:34 it's vnc though Jun 10 19:29:41 shhh Jun 10 19:29:59 anyone know what provides the audioservice_send() fn? Jun 10 19:30:16 when I try exec, any arm apps... this poky patched qemu ... back the help screen Jun 10 19:30:22 though who knows, maybe it would be a good reference point for crap ;) Jun 10 19:31:44 lol!! Windows ME on N800... hahaha Jun 10 19:32:17 low res ... and many unsolved-ever bugs Jun 10 19:33:46 Anunakin, are you running qemu-system-arm or qemu-arm? Jun 10 19:35:31 Anunakin: you can run Palm OS on n8x0 ... Jun 10 19:36:36 and now we are resuming with the program.. Jun 10 19:37:25 either the n800 is huge, or that person has really small hands Jun 10 19:37:26 * johnx wants a stuffed animal or baseball cap for his donation Jun 10 19:37:36 stuffed baseball cap? Jun 10 19:38:02 stuffed animal cap Jun 10 19:38:13 lardman https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/connectivity/bluez-utils/tags/bluez-utils-3.23-0osso1/audio/pcm_bluetooth.c Jun 10 19:38:17 KotCzarny: what program? Jun 10 19:38:29 summa: after the break for out sponsors Jun 10 19:38:35 s/out/our Jun 10 19:40:29 KotCzarny: I'm lost, whatever :) Jun 10 19:41:00 lcuk: Thanks. I thought I'd looked in that file, as that's where the error occurs. Hmm :) Jun 10 19:41:13 maybe version specific Jun 10 19:41:34 or just search up/down doozy ;) Jun 10 19:41:43 yeah, user error :D Jun 10 19:41:44 google knew anyway :) Jun 10 19:41:53 not enough wine Jun 10 19:42:01 too true Jun 10 19:42:05 :) Jun 10 19:42:39 the only problem with drinking (wine/beer/etc) is that although your code is really good, sneaky and quick, you can't understand how it works when sober Jun 10 19:43:29 i dont have that trouble. its so rare im sober it always makes sense :P Jun 10 19:43:35 lol Jun 10 19:43:48 * lcuk gets on and makes a calendar Jun 10 19:49:39 summatusmentis, I guess it depends on your perspective. ;) Jun 10 19:50:14 looks like handle_getcapabilities_req() in unix.c from bluez-utils*/audio/ is where my failure is happening Jun 10 19:52:28 lardman, im glad you have started to discover the solution ;) Jun 10 19:53:20 lcuk: It's like searching in a thick fog of not-knowingness Jun 10 19:54:04 in situations like this there is only one thing to do: printf("1..."); printf("2..."); printf("3..."); printf("4..."); printf("5..."); printf("6..."); Jun 10 19:54:24 lol, exactly what I'm doing now.... Jun 10 19:55:03 it took an entire afternoon of reasoning to get a colleague to do that before identifying his bug 2 minutes later Jun 10 19:55:18 :) Jun 10 19:55:34 yeah, printf debugging ftw! Jun 10 19:55:40 * lcuk gets frustrated with cow orker Jun 10 19:56:10 KotCzarny: If only dbg were friendlier Jun 10 19:56:25 can we have proper real true debugging on this device? Jun 10 19:56:38 probably Jun 10 19:56:39 :) Jun 10 19:56:40 * lcuk never asked because im used to working blind Jun 10 19:56:58 someone write a how to, I've heard stories of being able to step through lines of code, but never worked out how Jun 10 19:56:58 but someone will have to write it Jun 10 19:57:09 :) Jun 10 19:57:11 lardman: gdb used to allow that Jun 10 19:57:19 past tense? Jun 10 19:57:19 yer, i need to work out how to draw line numbers first though Jun 10 19:57:19 but there's no gdb for arm afair Jun 10 19:57:53 ah yes Jun 10 19:59:00 does somebody know how to disable a applet by console? Jun 10 19:59:07 kill Jun 10 19:59:10 or killall Jun 10 20:02:41 Anybody using a Bluetooth keyboard with Diablo? Jun 10 20:05:04 X-Fade, where's my plugin? :( Jun 10 20:05:32 GeneralAntilles, It is not released yet, right? Jun 10 20:05:47 No, it's not released, but plenty of people have it. Jun 10 20:05:59 is it usable? Jun 10 20:06:18 Yeah, it's pretty much fine. Jun 10 20:06:37 What are the mayor improvements in short? Jun 10 20:07:23 qos, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet_OS#Diablo Jun 10 20:11:35 can someone explain why booting from a SD card is supposed to be faster then booting from internal flash? Jun 10 20:11:51 Not a compressed filesystem. Jun 10 20:12:02 The speedup is pretty much only noticeable at boot, though. Jun 10 20:12:08 depends on speed of your sd card Jun 10 20:12:15 some are slower, some are faster Jun 10 20:12:19 hdparm puts the SD card at ~9-10MB/s and the internal flash at 14-15MB/s Jun 10 20:12:35 "GOOD" SD cards are fasters Jun 10 20:12:37 Well, if you've got a crappy card that can factor into it. Jun 10 20:12:50 so can't i just install ext2 or something on the internal flash? Jun 10 20:12:55 * KotCzarny has a kingstons with ~4mb/s rating Jun 10 20:13:03 If you want to burn it out, sure. Jun 10 20:13:07 but i still prefer sd booting Jun 10 20:13:18 yeah i applied the high speed patch Jun 10 20:13:30 ok guess i'll give it a try Jun 10 20:13:32 GeneralAntilles, Is there still the read only filesystem on it? i mean the filesystem where normally to place kernel modules... i dont remember the exact location, its long ago. Jun 10 20:13:37 gentooer: internal flash (onenand) doesn't have wear levelling Jun 10 20:13:45 i tend to get the impression that my os2008 on sd card runs slower than on the flash. maybe i borked the install, i have no idea Jun 10 20:13:45 that's the reason for jffs2 Jun 10 20:13:49 qos, what, qos? Jun 10 20:13:50 ah Jun 10 20:14:03 -extra qos Jun 10 20:14:04 256mb one Jun 10 20:14:18 2gb in n810 is a soldered sd card Jun 10 20:14:34 but what quality or features.. Jun 10 20:14:37 nobody knows Jun 10 20:14:56 anyone tried to identify it with hdparm -i ? Jun 10 20:14:56 class 6 is 6 mb/s, right? Jun 10 20:15:02 GeneralAntilles, a long time a ago i wanted to put a kernel module on the device. the directory where normally to place the module was read only because of the ... ??? i dont remember :) Jun 10 20:15:08 n800m: or better Jun 10 20:15:14 cool, that's what i have Jun 10 20:15:15 n800m, yeah usually better though Jun 10 20:15:18 qos, you can install kernel modules just fine. :\ Jun 10 20:15:49 mine are class6 but i think the n800 is the limiting factor at about 10MB/s Jun 10 20:15:50 n800m, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sd_card#SDHC Jun 10 20:16:05 GeneralAntilles, in those days i had to place it in /usr/share/appname/module.ko Jun 10 20:16:53 bah Jun 10 20:17:09 /lib/modules/_release_/misc/ is the place Jun 10 20:17:50 i know ... but in these days it this place was just read only ... thats what i can remember Jun 10 20:18:17 if this has changed i will releas sshfs for publicity Jun 10 20:18:37 don't confuse with one in /mnt/initfs Jun 10 20:19:27 if you prepare modules.dep for it that will have an added bonus Jun 10 20:19:38 intelligently though Jun 10 20:22:11 is there somebody who uses UMTS via bluetooth with his N8XX? Jun 10 20:22:35 HSDPA Jun 10 20:23:30 GeneralAntilles, fine ... can u send me the output for "ifconfig" via pastebin? Jun 10 20:23:43 I am writing a traffic counter tool ... Jun 10 20:24:08 use /proc/dev/net/ Jun 10 20:24:12 or something Jun 10 20:24:33 /proc/net/dev ;) Jun 10 20:24:36 yeah Jun 10 20:24:44 but you know what i mean Jun 10 20:25:47 why do you want to use /proc/net/dev? any special reasons? Jun 10 20:26:03 you don't have to exec ifconfig Jun 10 20:26:10 to count traffic Jun 10 20:26:17 simply open/read Jun 10 20:26:44 GeneralAntilles, and the output of "cat /proc/net/dev" would be great too... Jun 10 20:26:51 lol Jun 10 20:27:16 you need only interface name Jun 10 20:27:17 :) Jun 10 20:27:28 format is the same for any net device Jun 10 20:27:34 KotCzarny, yeah and therefore i want these outputs ... Jun 10 20:27:53 i dont know what name the new device gets ... Jun 10 20:28:07 then ignore known lines Jun 10 20:28:12 ie lo, comments Jun 10 20:28:26 * GeneralAntilles is currently trying to get a core-dump from a Bluetooth-related hildon-desktop crash. Jun 10 20:28:29 Sorry, not right now. Jun 10 20:42:56 what is the lo device good for? Jun 10 20:43:30 saying lo to other devies Jun 10 20:43:30 loopback? Jun 10 20:43:39 yeah .. Jun 10 20:44:06 hey i'm trying to edit a python file through emelfm Jun 10 20:44:14 but i ned root Jun 10 20:44:19 unique311, :) havent seen you in a long time. i think you were the first person i spoke to in irc here and i said i was gonna write some kind of graphics program Jun 10 20:44:25 is the only way to do it in terminal? Jun 10 20:44:39 yep. Jun 10 20:44:51 I still have my n800 Jun 10 20:45:06 qos: interprocess communication Jun 10 20:45:32 some programs use unix domain sockets, others use tcp/ip sockets over loopback Jun 10 20:45:55 lcuk, mtpaint and mypaint are pretty usable now. Jun 10 20:46:11 :) unique, have you not seen what i can do then? Jun 10 20:46:14 something like that i was thinking too, so if you are writing a traffic counter you should ignore this device, right? Jun 10 20:47:19 lcuk, liqbase Jun 10 20:47:26 I saw the video Jun 10 20:47:56 good good :) Jun 10 20:49:00 qos: i wrote a /proc/net/dev parser in bash, perl and php Jun 10 20:49:03 :) Jun 10 20:49:12 by default it gets eth0 Jun 10 20:49:18 but has an option for -i Jun 10 20:50:07 the bash one would intrest me ;) Jun 10 20:50:14 let me find it then Jun 10 20:50:23 heh Jun 10 20:50:36 I had to do that too for my openwrt router Jun 10 20:50:50 and then I discovered /bin/sh can't handle 32-bit unsigned numbers Jun 10 20:51:17 mgedmin: for openwrt use bwm Jun 10 20:51:18 :) Jun 10 20:51:24 * mgedmin googles bwm Jun 10 20:51:52 lcuk: wtf *is* libqbase? Jun 10 20:52:02 everyone (you included) keeps talking about it Jun 10 20:52:09 alli saw was a cool note-taking app in the video Jun 10 20:52:27 liqbase is the entire app, theres more buttons than the video shows Jun 10 20:52:27 is anyone else seeing a case where the hardware keys stop responding with N810? Jun 10 20:52:33 * mgedmin runs ipkg install bwm Jun 10 20:52:55 KotCzarny: thanks!!! Jun 10 20:53:01 mgedmin: no problem Jun 10 20:53:01 liqbase? Jun 10 20:53:02 :) Jun 10 20:53:12 what does that stand for Jun 10 20:53:13 its what i have created to test various aspects of both my c knowledge and how i can stretch my wings on this little n810 :) Jun 10 20:53:17 yes rm Jun 10 20:53:20 now if I only could make sense of all the real & virtual network ifaces openwrt uses... Jun 10 20:53:35 ah i thought it was lib - q - base Jun 10 20:53:38 mgedmin: just look at the bridge :) Jun 10 20:53:39 br0 Jun 10 20:53:41 ahhh right - lcuk is not a mistyping of luck, the l is liquid Jun 10 20:53:54 most of my code is liqXYZ Jun 10 20:54:01 ah Jun 10 20:54:04 liqbook.c Jun 10 20:54:06 the bug seems identical to bugzilla bug 2311, but that's supposed to have been fixed already... Jun 10 20:54:09 liqdrawframe.c Jun 10 20:54:23 Is it available to download and install? Jun 10 20:54:44 soon Jun 10 20:54:45 :) Jun 10 20:54:56 it's close to beta status Jun 10 20:55:11 is really the only way to edit a .py file in terminal if i need root? Jun 10 20:55:14 What about those of us who love the alpha Jun 10 20:55:18 seems a little hard to believe Jun 10 20:55:28 lol not yet and the whole thing wont ever be. i am stripping out actual software programs from it and those will be released as finished apps within garage or wherever Jun 10 20:55:31 those can download a binary in progress Jun 10 20:55:42 KotCzarny, ? really - 1st ive heard :P Jun 10 20:55:56 lcuk, i think you have put some code on your website? Jun 10 20:55:57 Naked, I don't think the fix ever actually made Chinook. Jun 10 20:56:05 Or the fix wasn't actually fix enough Jun 10 20:56:13 Because I experienced that under Chinook a few times Jun 10 20:56:18 that one? http://liquid.googlepages.com/testfiles Jun 10 20:56:21 yer i did Jun 10 20:56:22 It definitely seems to be fixed under Diablo, though. Jun 10 20:56:28 n800m: what? Jun 10 20:56:34 yeah Jun 10 20:56:48 i forgotted about that :) yer, theres a pre-alpha-sub-unstable-extremely-test-dontrunanywhere-version there Jun 10 20:56:50 n800m, just invest the time to learn vi. :\ Jun 10 20:56:58 i'm trying to edit a .py file in usr/lib/ Jun 10 20:57:06 good enough for me. Jun 10 20:57:10 :) Jun 10 20:57:12 ahh Jun 10 20:57:15 yes, I suppose so Jun 10 20:57:16 and quite old too Jun 10 20:57:23 2 months old Jun 10 20:57:24 that's because you're not supposed to edit any files under /usr Jun 10 20:57:29 * lcuk forgets whats in there now Jun 10 20:57:29 (except for /usr/local) Jun 10 20:57:46 would there be a way to make a file manager gain root? Jun 10 20:57:53 not by me, in theory Jun 10 20:57:55 :x Jun 10 20:58:02 * lcuk downloads it Jun 10 20:58:04 n800m: use ssh and install mc Jun 10 20:58:17 I doubt it Jun 10 20:58:22 i cant fecking believe im downloading my own test Jun 10 20:58:26 heh Jun 10 20:58:26 :) Jun 10 20:59:25 vi - edit is 'a', right? Jun 10 20:59:38 a is add Jun 10 20:59:39 or 'i' Jun 10 20:59:40 i is insert Jun 10 20:59:43 GeneralAntilles: bummer - i seem to be experiencing that problem every few hours if the touch screen is locked! Jun 10 21:00:02 Does anyone in here have a Nokia E51 and can tell me if the built in SIP client can work over a 3G connection as well as the WiFi? Jun 10 21:00:12 [i: inplace editing, a: place cursor to the right, edit Jun 10 21:00:13 ok, here goes Jun 10 21:00:29 GeneralAntilles: I'm not afraid of dev versions, can I get diablo builds somewhere? Jun 10 21:00:43 Cyorxamp: works like a dream Jun 10 21:00:45 You have to get the password to the repo from an apt .patch Jun 10 21:01:03 Then you can upgrade using SSU. Jun 10 21:01:40 Naked: its a E51 you own? Jun 10 21:02:01 Naked, http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/a-pleasant-surprise/ Jun 10 21:02:11 heh :D thats quant, no kinetic, the menu is odd, theres no configure cpu, scrolltest isnt right and theres lots of framecounters :D wicked Jun 10 21:02:16 GeneralAntilles: great! thanks! Jun 10 21:02:17 Was thinking of getting the E51 + N810WiMax, then I'm sorted for SIP whether I have the PDA or not... and also a 3G Modem until we get WiMax properly over here Jun 10 21:02:28 lcuk: :) Jun 10 21:02:31 Cyorxamp: the very same Jun 10 21:02:42 and sketches dont save ;) Jun 10 21:02:45 as i said, 2months old Jun 10 21:02:54 its the basics though :) Jun 10 21:03:00 Naked: cool, so if I'm on Wifi and 3G - does the nokia prioritize or something for internet calling? Jun 10 21:03:19 Cyorxamp: battery life is a bummer for E51, esp. with 3G/2ifi Jun 10 21:03:25 * lcuk confirms source is still available for that Jun 10 21:03:50 Cyorxamp: I hardly get through a day without charging, sometimes not... Jun 10 21:04:11 I'll prob get a desktop stand for work and home like I do with my current nokia Jun 10 21:04:36 Cyorxamp: you have to define the access point it uses for the SIP registration - but you can change it easily Jun 10 21:04:39 it's the only AD2P+ARVCP, HSDPA, SIP, good looking nokia I can find! Jun 10 21:04:55 so many acronyms in one sentence.. Jun 10 21:04:59 * KotCzarny grins Jun 10 21:05:22 Cyorxamp: A2DP works nicely, too Jun 10 21:05:40 how many identities can it handle? just the one Jun 10 21:05:53 I have my own PBX in a server room, so it'll prob just connect to that Jun 10 21:06:24 yeah learning vi with a sytlus is a freakin blast Jun 10 21:06:24 Cyorxamp: several can be registered at once Jun 10 21:06:26 cool Jun 10 21:06:33 Cyorxamp: but you need to pick which one you use for outgoing calls Jun 10 21:06:44 ok sounds like a good transitional phone then. people can be calling in on what is a normal mobile number Jun 10 21:06:51 n800m, that's what the dpad is for. Jun 10 21:06:54 while I can call out cheaply with my phone system :P Jun 10 21:06:55 liqbase_20080405_playtest_src.zip phew! Jun 10 21:06:56 You don't use a mouse with vi. Jun 10 21:07:11 :D Jun 10 21:07:44 does anyone know time frame we can get the WiMax 810 in the UK? Jun 10 21:07:49 i keep forgetting about the dpad Jun 10 21:07:52 when it's done Jun 10 21:07:54 Pipex are expanding the WiMax network in september Jun 10 21:08:03 ie. no date Jun 10 21:08:15 lcuk: Open Source! Open Source! Open Source! Open Source! Open Source! Jun 10 21:08:16 well is there any harm in importing it? Jun 10 21:08:18 Cyorxamp: the firmware is buggy - some crashes etc. - but then again, what phone isn't these days Jun 10 21:08:20 okay, I give up Jun 10 21:08:22 what does 'SSU' stand for? Jun 10 21:08:26 single something update? Jun 10 21:08:27 Naked: E51? Jun 10 21:08:34 seamless Jun 10 21:08:39 Cyorxamp: yeah Jun 10 21:08:43 lcuk: got to prod you at least twice a day... :P Jun 10 21:08:49 Naked:co looks like theres updates for it tho Jun 10 21:09:05 rm :) and i thank you for it Jun 10 21:09:14 mgedmin, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet_OS#Diablo Jun 10 21:09:19 KotCzarny: were you speaking to me before? Jun 10 21:09:24 lcuk: show me your thanks by releasing liqbase as OSS :P Jun 10 21:09:33 O.o Jun 10 21:09:34 if its any concelation, my missus thinks i should just upload it and stop playing on maemo. Jun 10 21:09:35 i don't know Jun 10 21:09:45 Cyorxamp: I got a crash when answering a phone call with A2DP on with the latest firmware, for example Jun 10 21:09:46 Rather, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet_OS#Updating mgedmin Jun 10 21:10:14 should i stop playing with my 810? Jun 10 21:10:23 ahh, "seamless software update" Jun 10 21:10:25 heh Jun 10 21:10:26 what would you do then? Jun 10 21:10:26 (and im not on about just tonight) Jun 10 21:10:28 Naked: I thought A2DP was 2 speaker, no microphone Jun 10 21:10:32 lcuk, tell your missus maemo is not a game, its a way of life... Jun 10 21:10:34 I wish them luck Jun 10 21:10:48 ubuntu hasn't managed "seamless" yet Jun 10 21:10:56 lcuk: well, don't stop completely Jun 10 21:10:57 then for now i continue working towards a decent software release :) Jun 10 21:10:59 how do i do shift+ key with the onscreen kb? Jun 10 21:11:00 mgedmin, works OK already for upgrading Chinook. ;) Jun 10 21:11:03 then again old versions of system libs in /usr/local/ would break anything Jun 10 21:11:03 but maybe she needs more time with you? :) Jun 10 21:11:05 it is all or nothing... Jun 10 21:11:09 yes Jun 10 21:11:19 Cyorxamp: it is, my headphones just do headset as well Jun 10 21:11:19 * lcuk has a plan though :) Jun 10 21:11:20 * aquatix knows the feeling Jun 10 21:11:30 share way too much quality time with my gadgets Jun 10 21:11:37 lcuk: if you REALLY are that set on it, fine, get everything seperated out into different apps... THEN release *all* of the source for all of them Jun 10 21:12:03 All-or-nothing is definitely not compliant with "release early, release often". ;) Jun 10 21:12:10 Naked: I've got a Plantronics 590A, blue tooth headphones and headset... supports A2DP and knows (if listening to music on PC) if your phones calling to give you the choice of answering Jun 10 21:12:14 what if i just released the bits which comprise a central library to make your own apps ? ;) Jun 10 21:12:21 * lcuk teases you Jun 10 21:12:33 lcuk: have you ever read "The Cathedral and the Bazaar"? :P Jun 10 21:12:39 Naked: but I thought the phone would use the old profile... while the stereo the new profile... so does A2DP support 2 speakers and a Mic ? Jun 10 21:12:52 actually no, i know i should Jun 10 21:13:03 * RST38h burps at the mention of that essay Jun 10 21:13:16 * lcuk reads it in liqreader Jun 10 21:13:18 lcuk: it's basically like... Jun 10 21:13:20 ... Jun 10 21:13:20 Cyorxamp: nope, it switches to headset profile when there's a call Jun 10 21:13:30 thats what I thought Jun 10 21:13:37 the closest thing I can think of to compare it to is... my Bible Jun 10 21:14:02 [at this point, God is probably considering how to smite rm_you] Jun 10 21:14:08 Naked: so for calls my phone doesn't need A2DP even if my headset says it does... its only if my phone wants to play music (which I don't care about) ? Jun 10 21:14:19 and a few of RMS' rants are like... gospels :P Jun 10 21:14:39 Cyorxamp: yes Jun 10 21:14:44 smite him with a wince device! Jun 10 21:14:50 Anybody running Diablo with a Bluetooth keyboard? Jun 10 21:15:06 * Gadgetoid owns a wince device :( Jun 10 21:15:10 OK does a bluetooth profile of stereo + mic even exist? Jun 10 21:15:18 That would be ideal for a gamers headset Jun 10 21:15:36 is there a way to do shift + key on the n800? Jun 10 21:15:47 Cyorxamp: dunno, tried it with Teamspeak, couldnt get the mic to work Jun 10 21:15:57 rm_you: the 590A ? Jun 10 21:16:14 Cyorxamp: no, my crazy Japanese Logitec thing (NOT Logitech) Jun 10 21:16:20 :> Jun 10 21:16:50 * GeneralAntilles pokes a stick in johnx's direction. Jun 10 21:17:13 Cyorxamp: true, although the phone will register A2DP by default I think, regardless if you play music or not - in any case, I was listening to music then Jun 10 21:17:14 I have approximately one day to brush up on the N810 before I need to start using/reviewing it... it looks like it embodies everything I love about gadgets apart from the wishful "people on the street thrusting it into my hands along with fist-fulls of cash" quality Jun 10 21:17:17 rm_you: Naked: http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R11TU5363OMV8R/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm Jun 10 21:17:35 thats my review of the Plantronics 590A ... I'd have expected more really Jun 10 21:17:54 Gadgetoid: lol Jun 10 21:18:03 Gadgetoid: well, I hope you like it :P Jun 10 21:18:07 Naked: right so since I don't need to use my nokia for music, then probably re-look at what nokia has to offer without that as a mandorary field Jun 10 21:18:14 Gadgetoid: just don't compare it to phones Jun 10 21:18:16 :) Jun 10 21:18:22 rm_you: I think I'm dead set for liking it, which is sad really! Jun 10 21:18:42 * lcuk ponders Jun 10 21:18:51 Cyorxamp: yeah, A2DP is useless, except for music Jun 10 21:19:05 * KotCzarny kills temple priests Jun 10 21:19:20 KotCzarny: I was considering comparing it, in some ways, to the HTC Kaiser but it beats it hands down in more or less everything bar out-of-the-box PIM and ... well, making phone calls Jun 10 21:19:28 lol Jun 10 21:19:41 Even the 810 screen resolution makes me weep tears of bitter joy! Jun 10 21:19:53 yes. please don't be one of those reviewers that says: "well... it sucks at making phone calls tho, so i hate it" >_> Jun 10 21:19:55 Gadgetoid, you tried SIP through sipphone.com with the built-in sip client? Jun 10 21:20:25 Gadgetoid: yeah, check out mplayer + tablet-encode Jun 10 21:20:30 ^ Jun 10 21:20:35 ridiculous looking videos Jun 10 21:20:37 http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org Jun 10 21:20:39 GeneralAnt: I generally don't make phone calls on my phone anyway :D Jun 10 21:20:48 Gadgetoid, you know when you play crysis at 1600*1200 on an old graphics card. the impression is similar ... Jun 10 21:21:31 Cyorxamp: though with those feature requirements, I think E51 is your best bet anyway... Jun 10 21:21:43 Well it's refreshing to come here and find a community to back up the 810, when looking at a linux-based device with so much potential for development I think the community is essential... specially when you can run IRC on the ruddy thing and idle here! Jun 10 21:21:57 heh Jun 10 21:22:01 irc is a time waster Jun 10 21:22:02 It reminds me of my GP2X days! Jun 10 21:22:06 addictive though Jun 10 21:22:12 Naked: well now I'm just after built in SIP client, HSDPA capable... and something NOT FANCY and looks like a bloody phone! (since it'll mix with a N810 anyway!) Jun 10 21:22:15 Gadgetoid: check pupnik.de Jun 10 21:22:22 Yes I was a recovering IRC addict until about 5 minutes ago.. damn! Jun 10 21:22:35 Naked: I've been using the nokia developer forum advanced search tool Jun 10 21:23:10 Gadgetoid, back away from your irc client and get back on the wagon Jun 10 21:23:25 Playable SNES speeds on the N800? I think I might have to buy an N810 instead of an HTC Touch Pro Jun 10 21:24:09 Gadgetoid: seen lcuk's video? :P Jun 10 21:24:57 rm_you: Nope! I've yet to even get hold of the N810, just "signed" the loan agreement this morning and decided to do some background work in the interim... so I know little to nothing about it! Jun 10 21:25:13 Naked: although its only the N and E series that have the SIP (non-UMA) voip capabilties, so you're right... still after a E51 then, dispite being like £150! Jun 10 21:25:19 at a good price Jun 10 21:25:37 lcuk: link him to your video Jun 10 21:25:48 lcuk: and then release a beta + source :P Jun 10 21:25:54 Naked: do you know if its hard to get it to play Ogg Vorbis, if its gonna have AD2P might as well use it!! Jun 10 21:26:48 Cyorxamp: install the ogg-vorbis packages Jun 10 21:26:55 that should be it Jun 10 21:27:09 rm_you: on about symbian s60 on e51 Jun 10 21:27:12 sorry for confusion Jun 10 21:27:15 oh :P Jun 10 21:27:18 lol Jun 10 21:27:20 I might be up for bringing coverage of goog maemo development projects to Gadgetoid, and certainly up for any good writer to do it for me, heh! Jun 10 21:27:53 Although I do have a nasty habit of over-diversifying my content to the point where visitors can't tell what on earth it's all about Jun 10 21:28:47 would this work? edit the .py that's in root, save it as something else and then replace/rename in xterm? Jun 10 21:29:09 edit with emelfm2 first, then save copy, then replace in root Jun 10 21:29:14 instead of editing with vi Jun 10 21:29:22 Cyorxamp: haven't tried ogg - streaming internet radio over 3G works fine, though Jun 10 21:31:32 Okay... FreeRA, that Baldurs Gate screenshot...Links2... why was I ever suckered into windows mobile! Jun 10 21:32:40 those questions of life... Jun 10 21:33:12 Gadgetoid, be sure to check out FBReader, Maemo Mapper, Vagalume, HAVA, Doom, ScummVM, and GarnetVM. ;) Jun 10 21:33:36 and numptyphysics Jun 10 21:34:07 ^ Jun 10 21:34:20 and Quake I and II. ;) Jun 10 21:34:32 descent is good to Jun 10 21:34:33 GeneralAnt: You had me at ScummVM... I don't read backwards it just caught my eye! Jun 10 21:34:39 Descent!? Jun 10 21:34:43 No way! Jun 10 21:35:07 bmidgley: Are you about? Jun 10 21:35:17 Also: http://fms.komkon.org/ Jun 10 21:35:26 Gadgetoid: and of course vnc, so you can use pc to play games Jun 10 21:35:47 (or remote desktop for some) Jun 10 21:36:00 Aye, I'm a Mac user and my windows mobile device doesn't play nice! Jun 10 21:36:30 re Jun 10 21:36:47 quiver is cool too Jun 10 21:37:02 and diskusage <3 Jun 10 21:37:02 heh Jun 10 21:37:09 nobody mentioned canola2 Jun 10 21:37:12 xournal Jun 10 21:37:16 s/nobody/noone Jun 10 21:37:22 advanced-backlight! :P Jun 10 21:37:30 lol Jun 10 21:37:34 lol Jun 10 21:37:34 :) Jun 10 21:37:36 evince rules also Jun 10 21:37:46 * Gadgetoid frantically takes notes Jun 10 21:37:51 apt-get is a good little game Jun 10 21:38:16 I've completed it, twice Jun 10 21:38:27 apt-get is fun, when it doesn't somehow completely render my OS unbootable for some bizarre reason, even after a reinstall Jun 10 21:38:31 oh yeah, if no one mentioned it, the link to gronmayer in the /topic is important Jun 10 21:38:48 repo hell? Jun 10 21:38:49 :) Jun 10 21:40:46 whoa 843 people in #debian Jun 10 21:40:49 scary Jun 10 21:40:54 only? Jun 10 21:41:03 johnx: are the a2dp scripts/tools yours? Jun 10 21:41:04 thats the most i've ever seen in one chan Jun 10 21:41:06 i though more people use debian in the world Jun 10 21:41:23 Every debian user signed on at once! Jun 10 21:41:29 Twice. Jun 10 21:41:42 Everyone knows that ZipSlack is the future! Jun 10 21:41:49 does somebody know if it is possible to use vala for creating hildon deskop applets? Jun 10 21:42:03 iosafe.com/3.5-press-release Jun 10 21:42:12 now if they included emp protection too.. Jun 10 21:42:17 lardman: yes those are his Jun 10 21:42:34 rm_you: cool, just checking for an email I'm writing Jun 10 21:42:38 rm_you: thanks Jun 10 21:43:13 Gadgetoid if you wanna impress somebody get numpty physics Jun 10 21:43:40 Got a linky? Jun 10 21:43:41 n800m: i still don't know what that is / does Jun 10 21:43:47 yes, n8x0 + numpty physics = sex Jun 10 21:44:08 try it out Jun 10 21:44:16 n800m: can you get preggy from it? Jun 10 21:44:19 i just discovered the user levels the other day Jun 10 21:44:20 Rest assured I will! Jun 10 21:44:25 haha KC Jun 10 21:44:39 or stds.. Jun 10 21:44:45 in that matter Jun 10 21:45:02 also gpe calendar is decent Jun 10 21:45:05 and that whole suite Jun 10 21:45:09 Just asked for an extended loan period, I'm never going to cover this stuff in a matter of days! Jun 10 21:45:42 you will Jun 10 21:45:44 :) Jun 10 21:46:49 After trying to write particle simulations in Xna I've gained a deep appreciation for what people go through to create stuff like Numpty Jun 10 21:46:51 man i've installed emjayes' rotate thingy and using my power key sucks now. Jun 10 21:47:21 yeah it's pretty amazing Jun 10 21:48:41 Gadgetoid: and for screen rotating.. well, it's possible with a patch to the kernel and x server Jun 10 21:49:16 not yet in os because most apps are unaware of that possibility Jun 10 21:49:23 but works well enough Jun 10 21:49:24 :) Jun 10 21:49:41 KotCzarny: Would be good for ebook reading! Jun 10 21:49:48 yes Jun 10 21:49:54 not needed Jun 10 21:49:55 webpage browsing too Jun 10 21:50:03 fbreader has its own Jun 10 21:50:08 Shiny! Jun 10 21:50:23 n800m: show me a browser which does content rotating on maemo Jun 10 21:50:38 lcuk: did you link him to your video yet? Jun 10 21:50:39 he said ebook reading Jun 10 21:50:45 i thought of fbreader Jun 10 21:50:53 i said web browsing :) Jun 10 21:51:11 not needed Jun 10 21:51:11 webpage browsing too Jun 10 21:51:18 lol <_< Jun 10 21:51:20 did you see those lines in the same order? Jun 10 21:51:24 but mind you, rotation done in hw is faster i guess Jun 10 21:53:08 The disadvantage the FBReader implementation has is that it's rendered against the draw direction of the panel when it's rotated. xrandr changes the draw direction, too. Jun 10 21:53:51 eh Jun 10 21:53:55 it reads text Jun 10 21:54:36 I still like lcuk's app better than any other ebook reader i think... and he still refuses to release it >_< Jun 10 21:54:43 he will Jun 10 21:54:52 just wait till it's releaseable Jun 10 21:54:53 You can't rush perfection, eh? Jun 10 21:55:02 Kot,rm_you,General: http://fms.komkon.org/Maemo/new.php Jun 10 21:55:09 Enjoy Jun 10 21:55:44 Ah, must better on the duplicates. Jun 10 21:55:49 implement search ordering Jun 10 21:55:53 RST38h: better... still uses mouse hover >_> Jun 10 21:56:04 rm_you: click on the arrow. Jun 10 21:56:12 ie. exact matching > package name matching > description matching Jun 10 21:56:30 that should probably be on the left, before the package name Jun 10 21:56:38 that's where dropdowns are (by convention) Jun 10 21:56:46 rst: add onmouseover or img:hover Jun 10 21:56:55 .... Jun 10 21:57:06 KotCzarny: you realize the tablet doesn't HAVE a mouse to hover, right? Jun 10 21:57:23 so any mousehover things will be entirely useless (and posibly INTERFERE) on the tablet Jun 10 21:57:25 ..yet Jun 10 21:57:38 Not selecting the drop downs does a search across all? Jun 10 21:57:49 yes Jun 10 21:58:12 Something to that effect should probably be indicated. Either the default option should be "All" or there should be a note. Jun 10 21:58:33 Search: god Found: stsstat Jun 10 21:58:44 am I the *only* person that thinks it would be a bad idea to use effects that your main audience CANT USE?! Jun 10 21:58:48 Needs an option to search title/description/both Jun 10 21:58:59 No, rm_you, I'm just too apathetic to argue it. :P Jun 10 21:59:07 rm_you: YET Jun 10 21:59:09 :) Jun 10 21:59:16 can i use gedit in maemo? Jun 10 21:59:16 KotCzarny: STFU >_< Jun 10 21:59:26 sorry, frustrating since obviously no one is listening to me Jun 10 21:59:35 better implement it now, when he is in coding mood Jun 10 21:59:38 and i'm still in web designer mode Jun 10 21:59:41 than bug him later Jun 10 21:59:42 :) Jun 10 21:59:44 .... Jun 10 22:00:04 What, no emacs? :D Jun 10 22:00:19 javascript for navigation (even hints) is something I wish I could erradicate from the web Jun 10 22:00:25 and SO many people use it Jun 10 22:00:31 it's *horrible* Jun 10 22:00:47 rm_you: what standards do nit browser comply to? Jun 10 22:00:51 so i can't use shift + key combo on n800? Jun 10 22:00:55 Flash and AJAX should go with it, rm_you Jun 10 22:01:02 KotCzarny: it's not that the browser doesn't support it Jun 10 22:01:08 ajax has a purpose, sometimes. Jun 10 22:01:13 have you looked at your tablet recently? Jun 10 22:01:19 do you *SEE* a mouse cursor? Jun 10 22:01:25 but javascript menus, no. Jun 10 22:01:26 the answer is NO, fyi Jun 10 22:01:33 Kot: the ordering stuff is not possible with sql afaik Jun 10 22:01:47 you can't use mouseover if you don't know where the mouse is Jun 10 22:02:00 rm_you: but for someone who enabled mouse cursor it will be ok :) Jun 10 22:02:02 Ah mouseover necessarily comes with a click, too. Jun 10 22:02:05 Javascript anything is fine as long as you add it via the dom and it degrades gracefully to something usable Jun 10 22:02:10 Folks, just forget about mouseover Jun 10 22:02:11 So it's 100% pointless on the tablet. Jun 10 22:02:14 WORSE, if the cursor gets left somewhere in the middle of the screen, the user won't immediately know why weird things are happening Jun 10 22:02:18 because they can't see it Jun 10 22:02:19 It works all right Jun 10 22:02:19 nope. Jun 10 22:02:24 KotCzarny: which is basically no one Jun 10 22:02:27 someone could use it Jun 10 22:02:27 There is an arrow to click Jun 10 22:02:37 but Jun 10 22:02:44 RST38h, arrow should be on the left side Jun 10 22:02:49 and point towards the right/down. Jun 10 22:02:51 RST38h: move the arrow to the left of the package name Jun 10 22:02:57 and i'll stop bitching Jun 10 22:03:00 :) Jun 10 22:03:13 or add little 'click for desc' below Jun 10 22:03:22 The package name should be linked, imo Jun 10 22:03:44 Still not loving the dashed border Jun 10 22:03:53 right now there's no way to guess you can see the desc by clicking anything Jun 10 22:04:18 Also the brief description shouldn't be centered Jun 10 22:04:50 But, that said, I'm reading it on a desktop display so it might look better at 800 Jun 10 22:05:18 RST38h: oh, did you want me to host that for you? i remember you were looking for hosting last time Jun 10 22:07:48 You're also not using real links, eliminating tab indexing and nerfing accessibility Jun 10 22:08:09 well Jun 10 22:08:15 it's for tablet anyway Jun 10 22:08:30 which isn't so accessible for blind Jun 10 22:08:33 * KotCzarny grins Jun 10 22:08:37 I would hazard a guess you can select things with arrow keys or 4-way nav though Jun 10 22:08:48 "things" being links Jun 10 22:08:56 well unless it had speech recognition and a screen reader Jun 10 22:09:42 do you guys use the system sounds or do you have them turned off? Jun 10 22:10:22 off Jun 10 22:10:37 that clicking is sooooo annoying after 5 minutes Jun 10 22:10:49 It'd like to keep it for the finger keyboard Jun 10 22:10:54 I'm seeing duplicate results in a search for "apt" weird Jun 10 22:10:54 but off for other things Jun 10 22:11:04 I used to keep the hardkey sounds on Jun 10 22:11:55 Gadgetoid: it shows all revisions, i think Jun 10 22:12:13 Not a revision, it's a version for version duplicate Jun 10 22:12:55 are there any text editors ported to maemo yet? Jun 10 22:12:56 Unless it's such a minor point release that it kept the same version number Jun 10 22:13:17 n800m: mcedit, nano, vi Jun 10 22:13:20 :) Jun 10 22:13:25 abiword too i guess Jun 10 22:13:27 and emacs Jun 10 22:13:35 Gadgetoid: nah i see you're right Jun 10 22:13:44 Gadgetoid: it's a work in progress <_< Jun 10 22:14:03 As long as I'm not going insane! Jun 10 22:14:04 abiword? Jun 10 22:14:06 sweet Jun 10 22:14:15 but i have heard it's unstable Jun 10 22:14:24 well, it's unstable on pc too Jun 10 22:14:27 ;) Jun 10 22:14:46 PCs are unstable, kaboom! Jun 10 22:15:19 where do i get mcedit? Jun 10 22:15:25 never tried that one Jun 10 22:15:26 just install mc Jun 10 22:15:36 it's included in mc Jun 10 22:16:11 Ouch even the b-stock N810 is £286 from expansys Jun 10 22:17:23 Gadgetoid: personally I still prefer the n800 >_> Jun 10 22:17:35 me too Jun 10 22:17:37 rm_you: I'm very fond of hardware keyboards though! Jun 10 22:17:39 y'know, i'm surprised that nobody has made a papercraft n810 Jun 10 22:17:45 cheaper (down under $200 when on sale, which is often), has two full-size SDHC slots Jun 10 22:17:48 one thing i would like is the screen Jun 10 22:18:07 I prefer my own GPS and bluetooth keyboard anyway Jun 10 22:18:22 That said my Vario 3 has a keyboard, GPS and internet connectivity Jun 10 22:18:47 And £150 for an N800 at Play.com sounds like a bargain Jun 10 22:20:06 And two full-size SDHC slots is pretty drool-worthy, it had to be said Jun 10 22:20:35 yup Jun 10 22:20:48 Anyone got one to work with an Apple bluetooth keyboard? Jun 10 22:21:00 yes Jun 10 22:21:01 probably Jun 10 22:21:07 Nice! Jun 10 22:21:11 which reminds me, i need to sell mine Jun 10 22:21:19 Apple keyboard? why! Jun 10 22:21:28 Best PS3 accessory, ever! Jun 10 22:21:43 it's the big white version Jun 10 22:21:51 Euch! Jun 10 22:22:12 I had one of those, they're a bastard for not only getting full of crap but showing it off through their transparent sides Jun 10 22:22:21 Worst. Keyboard. Ever. Jun 10 22:22:44 I tried to vacuum the crud out and ended up digging through dust looking for my apple key Jun 10 22:22:55 Dumbest. Idea. Ever! Jun 10 22:23:41 Gotta stick 'em in the dish washer. Jun 10 22:23:55 Not sure that works so well with bluetooth keyboards Jun 10 22:23:59 take off the keys and dishwash them Jun 10 22:24:04 it should work Jun 10 22:24:05 just don't eat near the computer? Jun 10 22:24:06 :) Jun 10 22:24:12 as long as you dry them completely :P Jun 10 22:24:18 You can dish wash motherboards. Jun 10 22:24:37 I wouldn't want to try that... Jun 10 22:25:00 * GeneralAntilles remembers refurbishing a PII lab in middle school. Jun 10 22:25:43 All right for some... I did middle school computing on Acorns Jun 10 22:26:28 Shame the n800 has no buttons on the right hand side Jun 10 22:26:28 i once put my brand new nvidia 5900 under the tap Jun 10 22:26:43 turn it over ;) Jun 10 22:26:54 Gadgetoid, some bullshit about appealing to business-types. :| Jun 10 22:27:05 I once put a brand new Ti4200 in my computer... in retrospect I wish I had put it under the tap! Jun 10 22:27:10 Duplicating the buttons over onto the right side would so win. Jun 10 22:27:17 It would be awesome Jun 10 22:27:26 more buttons! Jun 10 22:27:28 But I guess games have to rely on a small portion of the touch screen to make up for the lack of buttons Jun 10 22:27:35 Ha, another Mac user burned by Nvidia, lcuk. ;) Jun 10 22:27:47 I'm digging the price of the 800, but the 810 keyboard has gotta be handy Jun 10 22:27:49 no, was a coke accident whilst installing in my pc Jun 10 22:28:08 lol Jun 10 22:28:09 'coke accident', hah Jun 10 22:28:12 I loved my ti4200 <_< Jun 10 22:28:13 don't do drugs and it Jun 10 22:28:19 coke + dust bunnies == sticky mess Jun 10 22:28:21 Don't snort coke off new graphics cards Jun 10 22:28:32 it's up there with my voodoo3 for nostalgic cards :P Jun 10 22:28:33 Gadgetoid, personally, I do just fine with the N800's finger keyboard. Jun 10 22:28:52 Gadgetoid: you'd have to try both I think Jun 10 22:29:00 rm_you: I think you're right Jun 10 22:29:02 n800 works for some people Jun 10 22:29:08 me! Jun 10 22:29:09 :) Jun 10 22:29:37 But I think after trying the 810 it might be hard to go for the 800.. although much easier to justify to my other half. I will certainly see if I can get one on loan! Jun 10 22:29:52 get both? Jun 10 22:29:53 :) Jun 10 22:29:58 dneary, ping Jun 10 22:30:12 Haha if I get both my case for an Acer Aspire One will be shot to hell Jun 10 22:30:21 pong, but not for long Jun 10 22:30:24 Going to bed Jun 10 22:30:24 Gadgetoid: after using the n810, i might WANT to go back to the n800... again, mainly for space Jun 10 22:30:32 3-column looks fine Jun 10 22:30:48 I added my cool new template to your userpage now that the ParserFunctions plugin has been installed. Jun 10 22:30:48 rm_you: dual SD slots make that much of a difference? Jun 10 22:31:08 Ah support for up to 32gb... yeesh Jun 10 22:31:09 n810 is one SD-mini Jun 10 22:31:12 64GB vs 14GB? Yes. Jun 10 22:31:23 n800 is TWO fullsize SDHC Jun 10 22:31:25 No 32gb SDHC yet? Jun 10 22:31:30 yeah its out Jun 10 22:31:45 32GB have been out for a while. Jun 10 22:31:58 it's a shame they took the other one out and made it smaller. two SDHC's gives you a lot of capacity Jun 10 22:32:06 Haven't seen any myself... at least not for under £200 Jun 10 22:32:10 Well, the other one is still there Jun 10 22:32:13 it's just soldered on. Jun 10 22:32:18 http://www.techonweb.com/products/productdetail.aspx?id=A01T5J&src=FG Jun 10 22:32:28 well, ok, yeah, but it's not all that big Jun 10 22:32:30 I'd rather they had bundled the maps on a 2GB MicroSD and kept the second slot. Jun 10 22:32:46 Weird I just got a paper cut, despite being nowhere near any form of paper Jun 10 22:33:09 you got a Macbook Air? Jun 10 22:33:14 Hahahahahahaha! Jun 10 22:33:19 lol Jun 10 22:33:32 Nah if I sat like this with a Macbook Air it would cut me in half Jun 10 22:33:41 Rather than the MacBook Pro which just gently cooks me through Jun 10 22:34:29 What the N800 needs is a Slingplayer client Jun 10 22:34:45 Has anyone had an issue where after you flash your n800/810 with the dual boot option when in flash mode the buttons lock up on you if you lock the touchscreen? Jun 10 22:35:13 Gadgetoid, HAVA. Jun 10 22:35:19 http://myhava.com/ Jun 10 22:35:58 wolfspirit, how are you locking Jun 10 22:37:17 so... 32gb sandisk SDHC: http://www.datavis.com/Sandisk-32GB-Ultra-II-SecureDigital-High-Capacity-Card.html Jun 10 22:37:20 tempting Jun 10 22:37:25 but not really Jun 10 22:37:25 GeneralAnt: hava looks US only? Jun 10 22:37:45 Uh, don't think so. Jun 10 22:38:06 Dunno, though. Jun 10 22:38:40 Hitting the power button and selecting lock touchscreen sometimes it works and other times it locks the buttons too Jun 10 22:38:40 and i have to remove the battery to restart Jun 10 22:39:23 i only use the lock slider and my 810 and it locks everything Jun 10 22:39:50 GeneralAntilles: Cool, thanks Jun 10 22:40:10 I think we're going to switch definitively tomorrow & finish the migration live Jun 10 22:40:12 but the slider works to unlock it again Jun 10 22:40:22 Night all Jun 10 22:40:46 nite dave Jun 10 22:42:16 Righty tighty, I'm off for BSG and sleep! I'll be back. Jun 10 22:42:37 Thanks for all the links, info and whatnot; will be a huge help Jun 10 22:42:48 night Jun 10 22:42:51 All right, I have figured out sorting and depends browsing Jun 10 22:43:16 RST38h: did you move the arrow? Jun 10 22:43:19 order by name,repo,desc ? Jun 10 22:43:21 ;) Jun 10 22:43:32 The n800 doesn't have a lock slider Jun 10 22:43:45 Kot: yep Jun 10 22:43:49 sql is fun Jun 10 22:44:23 wofl, sorry only have 810, you mentioned prob there Jun 10 22:45:15 * lcuk will be using sqlite soon enough Jun 10 22:45:28 :) Jun 10 23:41:58 hi there. Jun 10 23:42:11 i know i should not ask about diablo repo pass Jun 10 23:42:55 Then don't. ;) Jun 10 23:42:59 :) Jun 10 23:43:12 i will just ask an hint Jun 10 23:43:21 The hints are everywhere. Jun 10 23:45:59 why does everyone use ext2 on their n8x0? why not ext3? Jun 10 23:46:09 * KotCzarny uses ext3 Jun 10 23:47:14 ok so there are no unique reasons not to use ext3? Jun 10 23:47:34 Could potentially negatively impact flash life. Jun 10 23:47:54 yea Jun 10 23:48:13 and a small part of it too, no? the one containing the journal? Jun 10 23:48:24 'could' Jun 10 23:48:27 that's a fud. Jun 10 23:48:28 The wear leveling should take care of that. Jun 10 23:48:40 But it's more total writes. Jun 10 23:48:46 numbers please. Jun 10 23:49:06 ext2 fscks on crashes Jun 10 23:49:16 and afair nit doesn't shutdown properly Jun 10 23:49:28 so expect fsck on every reboot Jun 10 23:49:47 i think i'll go with ext3, flash is cheap :) Jun 10 23:49:53 yeah Jun 10 23:50:09 one thing to note is to make sure you mount it noatime Jun 10 23:51:20 ok Jun 10 23:51:49 The hints are everywhere. <-- this is quite generic Jun 10 23:52:03 They are, though. Jun 11 00:00:32 GeneralAntilles: i just need a week to read the thread on ITT Jun 11 00:02:13 It's not that long. Unless you're the slowest reader on the planet. Jun 11 00:03:16 You can skip the first 30 pages or so, too! Jun 11 00:04:18 lol 30 pages Jun 11 00:04:34 It's not hard to skim Jun 11 00:04:52 whats the article? is it in topic? Jun 11 00:05:35 The Diablo topic Jun 11 00:05:49 oom? wtf. Jun 11 00:07:08 HAVA leak. . . . Jun 11 00:08:05 HAVA? Jun 11 00:08:28 ah its a player NVM Jun 11 00:10:24 ext2 fscks itself? Jun 11 00:10:29 nope Jun 11 00:10:37 must've misread Jun 11 00:10:38 startup script need to do it Jun 11 00:10:51 ext3 doesn't fsck itself too Jun 11 00:10:55 only replays journal Jun 11 00:11:54 http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/xkcd_goes_to_the_airport.png Jun 11 00:12:08 3rd one's funny Jun 11 00:13:14 lol Jun 11 00:13:22 been there sort of Jun 11 00:33:52 youtube plugin for canola broken? Jun 11 00:35:42 WFM, YMMV Jun 11 00:37:21 wait. i forgot to install mplayer. Jun 11 00:37:37 lol Jun 11 00:37:51 mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.26? Jun 11 00:37:59 from garage? Jun 11 00:38:03 It's in Extras. Jun 11 00:39:34 OK. nm then, I got it. will forget about canola youtube for now then. Jun 11 00:41:04 ? Jun 11 00:41:09 hello, I am trying to pair my n800 (os2008) with a Lego mindstorms nxt Jun 11 00:41:14 heh Jun 11 00:41:17 sounds neat Jun 11 00:41:20 is there sdptool or hcitool for n800? Jun 11 00:41:31 mmmv ;) Jun 11 00:41:35 yeah, hcitool exists Jun 11 00:42:05 the funny thing is that the n800 pairs with the nxt but the nxt keeps whining with a "line is busy" message Jun 11 00:42:09 seems like vids download (prog bar grows) but only darkness. Jun 11 00:42:30 rm_you: where would I find hcitool? Jun 11 00:42:51 fysa, #canola Jun 11 00:43:02 nice. Jun 11 00:43:33 bluez-utils-test Jun 11 00:43:48 rm_you: which repo? Jun 11 00:44:19 http://repository.maemo.org chinook/free Jun 11 00:45:29 rm_you: duh, I guess an apt-cache search was in order before asking :) Jun 11 00:45:41 heh np Jun 11 00:53:37 interesting... "sdptool add 3" on the n800 allowed the nxt to pair with it Jun 11 00:53:48 * maketo confused Jun 11 01:03:57 hmm, is it just perception or does the usb speed drop when the screen goes black? Jun 11 01:04:05 may be Jun 11 01:04:20 some power saving? Jun 11 01:08:12 could be it... Jun 11 01:08:34 it seems to drop to 1/10 of what i see when i poke the screen to wake it back up Jun 11 01:09:12 dmesg? Jun 11 01:13:09 i see a lot of voltage messages... Jun 11 01:14:50 hrmf, i guess i should have flashed it up to the latest now that i have some sdhc cards in there, just in case... Jun 11 01:14:57 but then, how long until diablo? Jun 11 01:15:12 diablo will be installed over your existing os Jun 11 01:15:21 ie. no image flashing Jun 11 01:15:42 t_s_o, a month give or take. Jun 11 01:15:44 ok? i have seen some people do it on the forum, but i tought that was a ugly hack... Jun 11 01:15:44 you will just select proper package and it will upgrade everything to diablo Jun 11 01:15:50 nope Jun 11 01:15:55 it's just a work in progress Jun 11 01:16:07 t_s_o, it's an ugly hack. Jun 11 01:16:17 Diablo will almost certainly be released as a FIASCO image. Jun 11 01:16:22 FUTURE updates will be through SSU. Jun 11 01:16:27 But not this one. Jun 11 01:16:32 we will see Jun 11 01:16:37 heh, i was starting to wonder if i had missed something :P Jun 11 01:17:05 meh, heading back to bed to salvage some level of decent sleep pattern... Jun 11 01:17:13 :) Jun 11 01:19:45 Considering that an upgrade to Diablo from Chinook kicks in the lifeguard reset, there isn't a chance in hell it'll be released as anything but a new image. Jun 11 01:19:49 hmm Jun 11 01:19:58 quite a thunderstorm coming to nyc Jun 11 01:19:59 sigh Jun 11 01:20:13 that sucks Jun 11 01:20:14 people screaming Jun 11 01:20:37 ds3, that's not to say that you wont be able to turn off the lifeguard and try updating from the repo. Jun 11 01:20:46 Hi All! Jun 11 01:21:01 Being able to not wipe out third party apps is a very very nice thing Jun 11 01:21:31 well, that depends on the method of upgrade they will choose Jun 11 01:22:13 Nokia-N800-51-3:~/nxt_python-0.7/scripts# hcitool con Jun 11 01:22:14 Connections: Jun 11 01:22:14 > ACL 00:16:53:02:0B:15 handle 44 state 1 lm SLAVE Jun 11 01:22:23 am I reading this right? Jun 11 01:22:43 does this mean that the n800 is a master in this bluetooth connection? Jun 11 01:24:01 i believe the n800 would be Jun 11 01:24:09 CAN it be a slave? Jun 11 01:24:13 not sure how bluetooth works Jun 11 01:25:30 rm_you: I am not sure either, I would think that the SLAVE line (which is the NXT) is the slave Jun 11 01:25:51 depends on your config files Jun 11 01:26:03 one implication of slave is it take clocking from the remote side Jun 11 01:26:30 ds3: interesting, see I crosed the hurdle of making the connection but now I cannot detect the nxt brick Jun 11 01:26:39 I can see the connection using the hcitool Jun 11 01:26:53 but I cannot query the brick for any information via bluetooth Jun 11 01:27:43 maketo: what profile does the mindstorms use? Jun 11 01:27:58 hmm Jun 11 01:27:59 sirens Jun 11 01:28:07 ds3: meaning? :) I am pretty poor with bluetooth terminology Jun 11 01:28:07 yeah. quite. the. thunderstorm Jun 11 01:28:27 maketo: meaning, does it emulate a serial port, a keyboard, or something entirely proprietary? Jun 11 01:28:40 ds3: I have no idea, that's a good question Jun 11 01:29:07 it could be it is expecting something to happen Jun 11 01:29:08 ds3: I think it is a serial port Jun 11 01:29:24 maketo: how did you get it to this point? Jun 11 01:29:35 ds3: I ran into a page talking about using rfcomm and sdptool to set up the communication to nxt on linux Jun 11 01:30:32 whoops Jun 11 01:30:34 closie Jun 11 01:30:36 so you used sdptool to find out the key numbers and then rfcomm tomake the serial connection? Jun 11 01:31:30 ds3: well, hmmm, I am not really sure. The nxt refused to pair with the n800 just by plain bluetooth discovery Jun 11 01:31:42 closie (2) Jun 11 01:31:44 ds3: so I used sdptool to do sdptool add 3 Jun 11 01:31:51 hmmm Jun 11 01:31:59 maybe the nxt side needs to be in pairing mode? Jun 11 01:32:22 well, it prompts for a pin, it is in "searching" mode Jun 11 01:32:27 so it discovers the n800 Jun 11 01:32:39 asks for a pin (which is pre-input for you: 1234) Jun 11 01:33:01 I type the 1234 on the n800 and the nxt complains with "line is busy" but n800 goes on happily to say it is paired Jun 11 01:33:19 now with the addition of the sdptool add 3 command the nxt actually says it is connected Jun 11 01:33:40 (or there is an absence of "line is busy"message and it shows an active connection) Jun 11 01:47:15 hmmm Jun 11 01:48:34 Hello Jun 11 01:48:58 I've setup Tablet OS 2008 Hacker Edition. What's the default root password for it? Jun 11 01:49:05 none Jun 11 01:49:19 It won't let me access sudo without password =( Jun 11 01:49:36 yup Jun 11 01:49:40 install ssh server Jun 11 01:49:48 when I run > sudo -i Jun 11 01:49:54 it prompts password. Jun 11 01:49:54 that will ask for root password to set Jun 11 01:50:09 install it like in debian? Jun 11 01:50:21 in app man Jun 11 01:50:50 http://rafb.net/p/l1c2Aw12.html I did a google search and I found this. Enjoy Jun 11 01:50:58 oh, you mean ssh server so I can connect to nokia 770 from my pc.... Jun 11 01:51:02 I get it Jun 11 01:51:24 you can use ssh locally too Jun 11 01:51:30 ssh root@localhost Jun 11 01:52:00 can I run this on the Nokia 770 ? apt-get install ssh server ? Jun 11 01:52:15 probably Jun 11 01:52:21 try ssh first Jun 11 01:52:24 then ssh-server Jun 11 01:52:32 you may need to enable extras first though Jun 11 01:52:40 how? Jun 11 01:52:50 go to app man Jun 11 01:52:59 and in repositories select extras Jun 11 01:53:09 then properties, then uncheck the 'disabled' box Jun 11 01:53:50 ok I've opened app man, dont see repositories there Jun 11 01:54:10 it's in menu Jun 11 01:54:36 Another request for any interested parties to go through the articles here and bring things up to speed: http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:Midgard_wiki Jun 11 01:55:04 ok, I think I got it Jun 11 01:55:13 now where I find ss server ? Jun 11 01:55:25 in commandline categorie? Jun 11 01:55:26 in app-man Jun 11 01:56:19 ok I found three, openssh, openssh-client and openssh-server. Jun 11 01:56:30 which one openssh or openssh-server ? Jun 11 01:56:37 install openssh Jun 11 01:56:41 it will install server and client Jun 11 01:56:50 ok Jun 11 01:57:09 thanks for this. Jun 11 01:57:18 How about the default password for root. Jun 11 01:57:23 none Jun 11 01:57:28 it's locked by default Jun 11 01:57:29 it asks me always when I try to run sudo Jun 11 01:57:33 do you mean "none" Jun 11 01:57:39 user have some sudo commands enabled Jun 11 01:57:42 but that's it Jun 11 01:57:44 as an password or just none, as no password Jun 11 01:58:16 how does one enable sudo root access in Nokia 770 ? Jun 11 01:58:29 nitapps.org Jun 11 01:58:32 I've tried passwd root, nothing. Jun 11 01:58:36 gainroot package probably Jun 11 01:59:55 will look in to it, thanks KotCzarny Jun 11 02:00:07 KotCzarny, do you have Nokia 770 or newer ? Jun 11 02:00:09 hmm, it's nitapps.com Jun 11 02:00:12 easyroot > gainroot Jun 11 02:00:13 n800 Jun 11 02:00:23 well Jun 11 02:00:26 nice Jun 11 02:00:31 it's easyroot on nitapps Jun 11 02:00:37 i don't use neither Jun 11 02:00:43 if i need root i just ssh Jun 11 02:00:43 how much ram/space does it have? Jun 11 02:00:43 :) Jun 11 02:00:53 128 of ram Jun 11 02:01:00 yeah will try that. Jun 11 02:01:27 I'm installing openssh, it asked me for password which I've typed. Jun 11 02:01:39 yeah Jun 11 02:01:41 now it looks like its stuck at the end. Jun 11 02:01:44 don't forget that pass Jun 11 02:01:44 wait Jun 11 02:01:48 it's generating keys Jun 11 02:02:09 i see, and how long does it take useally ? Jun 11 02:02:17 just wait Jun 11 02:02:23 lol ok Jun 11 02:02:28 i was installing ssh only once Jun 11 02:02:29 :) Jun 11 02:02:41 done ;-) Jun 11 02:04:45 is it possible to stream video or audio from computer to nokia? Jun 11 02:04:55 did any one tried it? Jun 11 02:05:53 yes Jun 11 02:06:09 whats your experience in this area? Jun 11 02:06:14 none Jun 11 02:06:25 but other people were doing it successfully Jun 11 02:06:46 does it due buffering always, and stops the video? Jun 11 02:06:55 what player does they use ? Jun 11 02:06:58 It works fine. Jun 11 02:07:06 770 will need a lower bitrate, but it'll work Jun 11 02:07:14 http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org Jun 11 02:07:57 thank you, will look at it ;-) Jun 11 02:08:20 ? whats this > http://rafb.net/p/l1c2Aw12.html Jun 11 02:08:34 never mind lol Jun 11 02:08:53 * GeneralAntilles haxes NodeRazor. Jun 11 02:09:25 GeneralAntilles, good luck ;-) Jun 11 02:09:57 GeneralAntilles, if you can hack me, I will say thank you =D Jun 11 02:10:13 11yr. security experience. hehe Jun 11 02:10:40 and you're sticking your ssh keys in pastebin? <_< Jun 11 02:10:47 11yr. old security expert? Jun 11 02:10:48 o.O Jun 11 02:10:48 nope Jun 11 02:10:52 that is not mine Jun 11 02:11:00 I've just pasted wrong url from the channel =D Jun 11 02:11:37 11 yr. old security expert? You should meet qwerty12 :-D Jun 11 02:11:50 thanks everyone Jun 11 02:11:53 ;-) Jun 11 02:12:09 it saved me some time ;-) thanks. Jun 11 02:13:14 another happy user.. Jun 11 02:14:18 i see that /etc/fstab only lists / and /media/mmc2, where are all the other mounts defined? Jun 11 02:14:49 like proc, sys, tmp.. Jun 11 02:15:04 he has security experience but knows nothing about ssh? Jun 11 02:18:40 <|penguinbait|> shutdown -h now Jun 11 02:53:29 using cal-tool i can select whether to boot from mmc1 or mmc2, but it always wants to boot from the second partition.. how can i force it to boot from the 1st? Jun 11 02:56:33 install fanoush initfs Jun 11 02:56:36 or hack your own Jun 11 02:58:11 i have fanoush installed but in the boot menu i can only boot into flash, mmc1 partition 2, or mmc2 partition 2 Jun 11 02:59:32 and it also lists the filesystem as ext2 when it's actually ext3 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 11 02:59:56 2008