**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 11 02:59:56 2008 Jun 11 03:03:52 guess i'll just try editing bootmenu.sh Jun 11 03:06:54 ever read readme? Jun 11 03:07:34 yes, they give options to pass internal, mmc1, or mmc2 but nothing about partitions Jun 11 03:10:04 if you want ext3 don't forget to alter modules line too Jun 11 03:10:31 yeah i did that, but it seems the file is read-only Jun 11 03:10:38 bah. Jun 11 03:11:43 gentooer, read the README Jun 11 03:13:20 GeneralAntilles, i have ready it several times. it claims mmc refers to the first partition and mmc2 refers to the second partition but it seems to me like mmc is my internal card and mmc2 is my external card Jun 11 03:13:33 at least that's what happens when i try to change it with cal-tool Jun 11 03:13:36 No, you've got it backwards. Jun 11 03:13:49 mmcblk0 is internal card Jun 11 03:13:54 mmc2 is internal card Jun 11 03:13:59 mmcblk1 is external card Jun 11 03:14:02 so... I decided in order for the n810 to be truly mobile, it needs ot be able to deliver itself Jun 11 03:14:02 mmc1 is external card Jun 11 03:14:07 you don't use cal tool with fanoush initfs Jun 11 03:14:37 ok well can i reinstall fanoush over itself? Jun 11 03:14:47 yes Jun 11 03:15:25 ok i'll try it again, but the README made it sound like it defaulted to /dev/mmcblk0p1 Jun 11 03:16:04 edit bootmenu.conf in initfs-flasher dir, then flash it Jun 11 03:25:40 yay it worked :) Jun 11 03:25:45 thanks guys Jun 11 03:55:30 what do I set the gps to in maemo mapper on an n810? Jun 11 03:57:12 BT Jun 11 03:57:15 No MAC Jun 11 04:00:34 no Mac, MAC, ok Jun 11 04:00:44 ;) Jun 11 04:00:49 no macs allowed? Jun 11 04:01:14 what about Mac emus? Jun 11 04:01:20 and it's A-GPS right? so it should work well enough? Jun 11 04:01:46 (diablo) Jun 11 04:01:52 Install a-gps-ui Jun 11 04:03:41 I need to enable RD mode to get root in diablo? Jun 11 04:04:54 no Jun 11 04:05:00 Just install easyroot Jun 11 04:05:16 I have easyroot installed Jun 11 04:05:22 when I type root, it says Jun 11 04:05:42 "Enable RD mode to gain root privileges" Jun 11 04:06:02 then use ssh method Jun 11 04:06:06 or enable rd mode Jun 11 04:06:56 Did you install easyroot before you upgraded to Diablo? Jun 11 04:07:10 yes Jun 11 04:07:15 Remove it and reinstall Jun 11 04:07:19 ok Jun 11 04:09:36 how does agps-ui work? Jun 11 04:14:15 night Jun 11 04:14:55 'night zop Jun 11 04:15:04 oh ffs, I can't type Jun 11 04:16:13 IP-based if you're connected Jun 11 04:16:23 tap-your-location-on-the-big-map if you're not. Jun 11 04:19:25 does it need to be oopen for maemo mapper? Jun 11 04:23:30 Probably Jun 11 04:23:33 Test it and find out for us. ;) Jun 11 04:36:18 Does anyone have experience setting up a python install package ? Jun 11 04:38:21 I've setup a repository and the packages install fine and run from the command line. Jun 11 04:38:33 They won't run from the app launcher Jun 11 04:41:23 Python should be installed as a dependency. Jun 11 04:42:07 python2.5 is set as a dependency Jun 11 04:42:14 GeneralAntilles: it doesn't seem to be recognizing my net connection Jun 11 04:42:40 Does it recognize any others? Jun 11 04:42:45 Or did the icd install get flubbed. Jun 11 04:44:40 no, like I can connect, and my net connection works fine Jun 11 04:44:48 just agps doesn't know it's there Jun 11 04:44:49 seemingly Jun 11 04:49:23 or... something's not right w/ it, neither maemo-mapper or "map" are connecting Jun 11 04:49:45 I'll keep playing in the morning, bed now Jun 11 04:50:06 Dunno, don't have an N810 to test with. Jun 11 04:50:15 later Jun 11 04:56:43 i can't get /dev/mmcblk0p2 to mount on startup, i added a line in fstab for it but apparently the N800 doesn't listen to fstab.. how should i mount it on startup? Jun 11 04:57:03 fstab isn't used by startup scripts Jun 11 04:57:14 add your S99-local script Jun 11 04:58:39 KotCzarny, where to i put the script? Jun 11 04:58:56 /etc/init.d/ Jun 11 04:59:04 then symlink it to /etc/rc2.d/ Jun 11 04:59:04 ah right Jun 11 05:25:10 damn now my SD cards are smoking fast 14MB/s :D Jun 11 05:58:47 hey lcuk , are you here? :) Jun 11 06:11:16 . Jun 11 06:14:17 working on http://skibur.com Jun 11 06:14:47 I have no idea what that is but it looks good Jun 11 06:17:31 working on adding my hacks on stuff that I like such as the N800 Jun 11 06:17:32 :P Jun 11 06:17:54 Ah, cool :) Jun 11 06:19:16 I remembered when people would ask me if I was a Halo gamer I was like, "Where did you hear that because I'm not?" Jun 11 06:19:44 ? Jun 11 06:20:06 [grammar parser failed] Jun 11 06:20:19 QUICK, someone save KotCzarny! Jun 11 06:20:43 it was this site ---> www.freewebs.com/skibur/halo2.htm I'm a Computer Scientist Jun 11 06:20:51 sorry Jun 11 06:21:16 still that doesn't fix above sentence Jun 11 06:21:47 :) Jun 11 06:22:21 I'm like dead asleep right now Jun 11 06:22:25 :) Jun 11 06:22:36 code is like keeping me awake Jun 11 06:22:39 :) Jun 11 06:22:41 * KotCzarny is having breakfast Jun 11 06:22:53 * qwerty12 plans on getting mine in 5 mins :/ Jun 11 06:23:01 and then looking for my lost usb stick >.< Jun 11 06:23:02 * skibur needs coffee Jun 11 06:24:58 bp0.blogger.com/_QYXfFH-IKaI/R_I_6SrbufI/AAAAAAAAAu4/7G_AokHPeNg/s1600-h/Nalesniki+z+serem1-1.jpg Jun 11 06:25:04 pancakes .. mmmm Jun 11 06:27:15 Hmm this "-mtune=arm1136jf-s" would give me better results than this: "-mtune=arm926ej-s" ? Jun 11 06:27:29 s/better results/better optimisation Jun 11 06:27:45 latter is for 770 Jun 11 06:27:59 ie. binary would run on 770 too Jun 11 06:28:00 Ah, I see thanks Jun 11 06:28:15 Meh, me don't need no 770 compat. Jun 11 06:28:15 well Jun 11 06:28:28 mtune means tune only though Jun 11 06:28:39 I know about the march :) Jun 11 06:28:46 k k Jun 11 06:33:20 hey. I am trying to use tablet-encode but I get this error when converting any of my videos Jun 11 06:33:21 tablet-encode: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0. Jun 11 06:33:21 tablet-encode: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0. Jun 11 06:41:20 Hmm, the -s option in gcc isn't the same as -static right? Jun 11 06:45:56 no Jun 11 06:46:17 more or less think of it as 'strip' Jun 11 06:46:18 :) Jun 11 06:46:32 morning Jun 11 06:46:37 mourning Jun 11 06:46:47 morning Jun 11 06:46:51 KotCzarny, Thanks :) Jun 11 06:47:07 * qwerty12 is uber n00b, it's first time I'm bothering with CFLAGS etc :) Jun 11 06:47:14 qwerty: man gcc Jun 11 06:47:15 :) Jun 11 06:47:43 DId do but the length put me off :P. But I should read it and I will :) Jun 11 06:49:22 ever heard of search? Jun 11 06:49:23 :) Jun 11 06:49:33 anyway: -s Remove all symbol table and relocation information from the executable. Jun 11 06:50:33 Ah, ok, I used the web and I kept getting ---fpascal"-s" etc Jun 11 06:50:55 .ÅÝÚÛÓ Jun 11 06:51:02 ups, sorry :) Jun 11 06:51:18 Cyrillic letters or something? Jun 11 06:51:45 yeah, just tried type "/topic" in wrong encoding :) Jun 11 06:51:53 heh :) Jun 11 06:59:14 chinook -> diablo -> freemondel(?) -> hardamel(??) ? Jun 11 06:59:27 ? Jun 11 06:59:34 fremantle Jun 11 06:59:42 chinook -> diablo -> fremantle -> harmattan Jun 11 06:59:49 qwerty12: thanks :) Jun 11 06:59:54 rm_you: thanks :) Jun 11 07:00:15 6-9 month between them? Jun 11 07:00:15 who has os2007 here? Jun 11 07:00:33 Xxaxx: only time can tell Jun 11 07:00:34 Italodance: hopefully no-one Jun 11 07:00:36 i want my old n800 demo video Jun 11 07:00:43 lol Jun 11 07:00:56 rm_you do u remember that? Jun 11 07:00:58 yes Jun 11 07:00:59 Italodance: what about youtube? :P Jun 11 07:00:59 i may have it Jun 11 07:01:09 * qwerty12 has never watched it and has never been bothered to mount up a n800 os2007 rootfs.jffs2 to get it Jun 11 07:01:24 rm_you please send it to me if u have it Jun 11 07:01:36 looking Jun 11 07:01:48 Xxaxx youtube is really a bad quality agree? Jun 11 07:01:57 bad for what? :) Jun 11 07:02:21 if you need it for one view ... Jun 11 07:03:18 Xxaxx i want to have it again in my n800....i missed it after flash to os2008 Jun 11 07:03:50 Italodance: encode some real videos :P Jun 11 07:04:19 rm_you y Jun 11 07:04:50 but how? Jun 11 07:04:55 tablet-encode Jun 11 07:05:01 mediautils.garage.maemo.org Jun 11 07:05:02 i think Jun 11 07:05:21 rm_you ok but did u found it\\? Jun 11 07:05:27 no Jun 11 07:05:28 :( Jun 11 07:06:38 how can i find it? Jun 11 07:06:56 someone please upload it for me Jun 11 07:07:10 I don't think anyone is still running OS2007 Jun 11 07:07:26 somebody on 770 maybe... ,) Jun 11 07:07:36 Italodance, you could flash to OS2007 and copy it yourself Jun 11 07:07:55 oh yes pupnik............ Jun 11 07:08:21 johnx hard way Jun 11 07:08:33 yeah, maybe the only way Jun 11 07:09:27 but in my opinion the os2007 video was better than 2008 Jun 11 07:11:04 ok Jun 11 07:17:25 strange why nokia don't use "4G" name in ads ,) Jun 11 07:17:41 because it's not a cellphone Jun 11 07:17:42 ;) Jun 11 07:18:04 4G = Wimax or Wifi :) Jun 11 07:18:16 wifi definitely not Jun 11 07:18:17 :) Jun 11 07:18:45 it would probably confuse and anger people who didnt understand it wasnt a phone Jun 11 07:19:18 is there anywhere you can go to check if wimax is supported in your area? ( a web site, i mean) Jun 11 07:19:32 probably Jun 11 07:19:51 try entering: wimax your_area_name Jun 11 07:20:30 rm_you, check clearwire's site Jun 11 07:20:32 what difference between phone and N8x0 with skype/gizmo/sip ? :P Jun 11 07:20:36 CLEARWIRE!? Jun 11 07:20:44 OH DEAR GOD NO, WIMAX IS CLEARWIRE!? Jun 11 07:20:52 ahaha Jun 11 07:21:07 :) Jun 11 07:21:12 * rm_you sold clearwire for a while <_< Jun 11 07:21:42 rm_you, really? Jun 11 07:21:47 I didn't know that :D Jun 11 07:22:02 yeah, down at Pioneer <_< since like every computer shop in the state is a dealer Jun 11 07:22:24 'cept for compusave which I think deals something else Jun 11 07:22:37 cocainewire? Jun 11 07:22:58 compusave? Jun 11 07:23:00 O.o Jun 11 07:23:15 it's still alive? Jun 11 07:23:33 oh yeah Jun 11 07:23:36 they killed off pcclub Jun 11 07:26:14 heh, well they were there last time I checked, but their site is down now :/ Jun 11 07:26:20 :) Jun 11 07:26:48 not that their site and the physical store really had much of a connection besides coincidence Jun 11 07:26:58 hehe Jun 11 07:28:15 though, given the number of results on google, I realize we might be talking about entirely different stores named compusave :D Jun 11 07:28:33 :> Jun 11 07:28:46 bizness without online presence? Jun 11 07:28:51 was your compusave in WA, north of seattle? Jun 11 07:29:03 smells oldish Jun 11 07:29:18 nope Jun 11 07:29:28 i was just reading about it on the net Jun 11 07:29:33 aah Jun 11 07:29:34 mythological beast Jun 11 07:30:13 it was a pretty random place Jun 11 07:30:22 I worked there for a couple weeks once, filling in for another tech Jun 11 07:31:51 o.o Jun 11 07:32:32 another footnote on my list of random jobs :D Jun 11 07:33:33 :) Jun 11 08:34:16 hey guys, my alarmd takes 100%cpu, and when I kill it, it respawns Jun 11 08:34:31 I don't even have any alarms set Jun 11 08:36:45 GeneralAntilles: hey Jun 11 08:42:46 Ha, #303 is Fremantle Jun 11 08:42:53 Took them goddamn long enough. Jun 11 08:42:55 Hi, EruditeHermit. Jun 11 08:44:39 is your diablo install working fine? Jun 11 08:44:54 Yes Jun 11 08:44:58 my alarmd takes 100% cpu and keeps respawning when killed Jun 11 08:45:14 /etc/init.d/alarmd stop kills it though Jun 11 08:45:27 You do something to it? Jun 11 08:45:30 Or install something? Jun 11 08:45:36 hmm Jun 11 08:45:37 no Jun 11 08:45:52 last thing I installed was the last update Jun 11 08:46:18 only thing that I can think of is that the battery died without it being turned off normally Jun 11 08:46:44 oh wait Jun 11 08:46:47 it reset itself Jun 11 08:47:08 after I did the /etc/init.d/alarmd stop and THEN restarted I am not getting the problem Jun 11 08:47:15 killing it and restarting didn't help Jun 11 08:47:30 don't know how or why it is working now Jun 11 08:49:11 bizarre Jun 11 08:52:05 GeneralAntilles: what do you think of the iphone pricepoint? Jun 11 08:52:28 Meh, Apple's mobile products don't do anything for me but piss me off. Jun 11 08:52:34 I know Jun 11 08:52:41 but I figure everyone will buy it Jun 11 08:52:52 The stupid lock-in bullshit is ridiculous. Jun 11 08:52:54 which means nokia will have to reduce their prices to compete Jun 11 08:53:16 Which is only good for the consumer. ;) Jun 11 08:53:23 I know it is subsidized by the contract Jun 11 08:53:33 but people aren't going to think about that when they buy it Jun 11 08:53:41 they'll think 199 Jun 11 08:53:45 A little competition to light a fire under everyone's asses in the cellphone industry is exactly what's needed. Jun 11 08:54:23 I have no love of the current status quo, and if Apple can do something to mix that up, then more power to them. Jun 11 08:54:25 nokia might even get the powervr to work because they lack 3D effects Jun 11 08:54:57 As long as I don't have to read about "hoa grate teh I-phone iz" more than once a week. ;) Jun 11 08:55:13 EruditeHermit, not a lot of hope for PowerVR on OMAP2420 Jun 11 08:55:20 Drivers, apparently, suck complete ass. Jun 11 08:56:00 EruditeHermit: the half the price advertising is ridiculous.. especially when at&t upped their plans at the same time Jun 11 08:56:04 well perhaps they will think about using a 3D chip that works for any new tablet Jun 11 08:56:16 That'd be the OMAP3430 Jun 11 08:56:20 glass: but people aren't going to see that. Advertising works Jun 11 08:57:10 EruditeHermit: which is why some consumer groups should bitch at apple about it. a lot Jun 11 08:57:51 GeneralAntilles: Does the wiki plugin work for you? Jun 11 08:58:38 GeneralAntilles: btw which kernel are you using for your diablo install? Jun 11 08:58:44 It's perfect, X-Fade, thanks. See the {{More topics}} template here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Template:Users Jun 11 08:58:48 moo. Jun 11 08:58:59 EruditeHermit, I think it's the 22-8 kernel. Jun 11 08:59:17 GeneralAntilles: Great :) Jun 11 08:59:23 GeneralAntilles: does popout camera trigger internet call and invert when rotated? Jun 11 08:59:26 X-Fade, do you have a minute to talk about the maemo.org website? I have a security concern Jun 11 08:59:42 lol Jun 11 08:59:47 * GeneralAntilles gets the N800 off the nightstand Jun 11 08:59:48 AFAIK iPhone+contract cost a little bit more than before now Jun 11 08:59:57 Even considering $199 price point for the device Jun 11 09:00:21 rst 10$ more per month Jun 11 09:00:28 EruditeHermit, yes. Jun 11 09:00:29 if the finnish newspaper was accurate Jun 11 09:00:31 wonderful marketing Jun 11 09:00:43 so it's more than what it used to be Jun 11 09:00:45 actually Jun 11 09:00:49 instead of half the price Jun 11 09:00:54 glass: Well, this will be 24*$10=$240 Jun 11 09:01:02 yep Jun 11 09:01:07 So it comes to $440 for the 8GB iPhone now Jun 11 09:01:11 plus the contracts werent cheap to begin with Jun 11 09:01:24 since you'd get something like n95 for free on similar contract Jun 11 09:01:35 so it's 440+something like n95 Jun 11 09:01:38 The original iPhone contract was $20/mo. Jun 11 09:01:42 * RST38h wonders what will all the "want iPhone without contract" people do Jun 11 09:01:55 RST38h: wait for a sim unlock.. maybe forever Jun 11 09:02:11 they gotta have increased the security Jun 11 09:02:15 glass: but they will no longer sell you iPhone if you do not sign up with ATT Jun 11 09:02:15 on the new gen Jun 11 09:02:18 Can't even swap sim cards into an iPhone. <_< Jun 11 09:02:26 RST38h: ah.. i wondered when they begin doing that Jun 11 09:02:40 GeneralAntilles: the old iphone you could swap sim easily Jun 11 09:02:50 Not on a stock iPhone. Jun 11 09:02:51 dont think you can refuse to sell unlocked phones around here Jun 11 09:02:52 GeneralAntilles: and even get simlock cracked Jun 11 09:02:56 GeneralAntilles: on a stock iphone. Jun 11 09:03:04 jaska: 3g.. Jun 11 09:03:08 jaska: they can refuse Jun 11 09:03:12 Not on the iPhone _I_ tried with. Jun 11 09:03:20 jaska: the edge iphone couldn't be subsidized in finland, but the 3g one can be Jun 11 09:03:29 GA: Wasn't a problem for the guy I bought iPhone for Jun 11 09:03:31 GeneralAntilles: it only works with the chinook kernel for me Jun 11 09:03:38 EruditeHermit, dunno Jun 11 09:03:43 GeneralAntilles: huh? failed to find the slot then? or did you try an ipod touch Jun 11 09:03:43 weird Jun 11 09:03:46 GA: So I guess that at least the original model had swappable SIMs Jun 11 09:03:55 glass: yes but i dont think they can _force_ contracts on you here... bundling phone + contract was illegal up until a couple years ago in general Jun 11 09:04:01 glass, I swapped my sim card into my mother's iPhone, it told me to put the old sim card back or it wouldn't work. Jun 11 09:04:02 as you probably recall Jun 11 09:04:10 jaska: they can force simlock on phones they bundle Jun 11 09:04:20 jaska: and refuse to sell them without it Jun 11 09:04:28 GA: Oh, you mean the software lockout Jun 11 09:04:30 GeneralAntilles: thats simlock Jun 11 09:04:31 You have to activate your sim card for an iPhone. Jun 11 09:04:35 What the fuck else would I mean? Jun 11 09:04:36 GA: Not the physical one Jun 11 09:04:36 GeneralAntilles: that ties it to a network Jun 11 09:04:39 _STOCK_ Jun 11 09:04:40 jaska: in finland only 3g phone + contract bundling is legal Jun 11 09:04:44 Not hacked Jun 11 09:04:52 GA: THAT ONE can eb worked around. Jun 11 09:04:58 GeneralAntilles: you could have swapped another at&t sim.. Jun 11 09:04:59 Working around that is hacking it. Jun 11 09:05:05 glass, I _DID_ Jun 11 09:05:06 was under the impression that they _have_ to also offer to sell the phone separately Jun 11 09:05:07 jaska: it was an exception to get people to get newer phones Jun 11 09:05:27 GA: I personally don't give a damn how it is called as long as it is reasonably easy to do Jun 11 09:05:44 RST38h, that's fine Jun 11 09:05:45 GA: If Apple wants to define this activity as murder, let them Jun 11 09:05:45 jaska: umm, never heard that one before Jun 11 09:05:48 but is outside the scope of my point. Jun 11 09:05:57 GA: And let them argue that definition in front of a judge. Jun 11 09:06:00 * GeneralAntilles gives up. Jun 11 09:06:08 * GeneralAntilles does actually give a fuck about anything iPhone related. Jun 11 09:06:16 s/does/doesn't/ Jun 11 09:06:17 Why? Jun 11 09:06:19 Oh Jun 11 09:06:24 :) Jun 11 09:06:34 kinda different meaning =) Jun 11 09:06:43 Just woke up, deal. Jun 11 09:06:48 ah Jun 11 09:07:39 wiza: they extended the 3g bundling to be forever.. Jun 11 09:08:04 jaska: they don't have to offer unlocked, afaik you can pay the whole contract at once though Jun 11 09:08:11 if you want off it Jun 11 09:10:24 I guess the real question is whether you can terminate your contract and what the penalties are Jun 11 09:10:37 thats fairly ridiculous Jun 11 09:10:56 it is. but this is the new economy. Jun 11 09:11:00 "service based" Jun 11 09:11:16 old shit way of doing mobile economy way actually Jun 11 09:11:39 of operator total lock in walled garden shitness, which was crap earlier and would continue to be crap later Jun 11 09:11:39 Remember Nokia's own Jaaksi talk about "services"? This is what he means. Jun 11 09:12:05 glass: They don't care. They don't have to. They are the Phone Company. Jun 11 09:12:27 hmmh? i was talking of apple Jun 11 09:12:32 First of all, it is revenue, not cool features. Cool features don't make you money. Jun 11 09:12:42 nokia is fairly open and not operator-lock-in compared to apple Jun 11 09:12:45 How is Apple different? Jun 11 09:12:56 that you'll have to sell your stuff through apple Jun 11 09:13:05 Apple or AT&T or Verizon - they all live by the same rules Jun 11 09:13:10 nokia doesnt force your apps to nokia downloads Jun 11 09:13:30 Nokia too, BTW, as soon as it figures out a way to make you pay over and over again Jun 11 09:13:36 or nokia doesnt force you to pay to use mp3 as a ringtone Jun 11 09:13:48 nokia makes money with just hw sales too Jun 11 09:13:59 Just wait and see Jun 11 09:14:05 without subsidisation bullshit to fool the consumer thinking that the device is 199 Jun 11 09:14:06 They wil figure something out Jun 11 09:14:11 with my last nokia phone I had to use 3rdparty tools to enable gprs always online functionality... Jun 11 09:14:37 as it was set to off to be 'operator friendly' instead of 'user friendly' Jun 11 09:14:57 operator branded fw? Jun 11 09:15:02 What Nokia does right now is releasing new and new phones monthly so that fashion conscious geeks always buy a new model Jun 11 09:15:14 (notice that this is done at the cost of product quality) Jun 11 09:15:29 glass: no - clean nokia firmware Jun 11 09:15:37 glass: it was 6310i Jun 11 09:16:06 At some point, this "fashion" trend expires and Nokia will have to figure out a new way to make money continuously. That is when you will see them pushing "services" Jun 11 09:16:10 6310i is kinda shite.. was first gprs from nokia, no? Jun 11 09:16:25 RST38h: ovi etc are being pushed hard now Jun 11 09:16:41 Well, I do not see it here Jun 11 09:16:42 RST38h: but really, it's rather long shot from the apple total lock-in and forcing you to specific operators Jun 11 09:16:53 RST38h: the ovi pushing is done behind the curtains.. Jun 11 09:17:08 RST38h: like nokia downloads pushing Jun 11 09:17:12 glass: Well, it is not the same as Apple but not because Nokia does not want it to be the same as Apple ;) Jun 11 09:17:47 RST38h: it would be a bad situation for nokia to serve just one oper Jun 11 09:17:57 rather than all Jun 11 09:18:20 or to sell just one model Jun 11 09:18:30 i like s60 for theres some diversity in the devices at least Jun 11 09:18:31 glass: Just means they have to do it a different way Jun 11 09:18:50 glass: For example they may only allow installing new apps from Nokia Download store Jun 11 09:18:59 RST38h: also some operators are already bitching at nokia for stepping on their shoes with ovi etc Jun 11 09:19:00 glass: This does not require operator lockin Jun 11 09:19:27 RST38h: that wouldn't happen in a long while, mainly because the different operators wouldn't like it Jun 11 09:19:33 Or, they may implement video chat and other cool features but only through their servers Jun 11 09:19:35 RST38h: (limiting to just downloads) Jun 11 09:19:44 glass: I do not think operators care Jun 11 09:19:50 RST38h: ..they care Jun 11 09:19:50 Not about users installing apps Jun 11 09:19:59 they care about where the users can buy their apps Jun 11 09:20:17 Well, when you install a Google Maps app on your S60 phone, where is operator in this process? Jun 11 09:20:37 So, when Nokia makes you install all such apps through Nokia Download, what will change for the operator? Jun 11 09:20:53 that they can't sell apps of their own Jun 11 09:20:58 and games and whatever Jun 11 09:21:06 Operators? They can Jun 11 09:21:08 if nokia does it and limits to only them Jun 11 09:21:13 Just need to do it through Nokia download Jun 11 09:21:21 BTW, operators do not normally sell content Jun 11 09:21:22 that wouldn't be the same Jun 11 09:21:33 They just charge content resellers something like 50% Jun 11 09:21:41 i know.. Jun 11 09:21:47 In this new case, they will charge YOU for GPRS Jun 11 09:21:49 or 3G Jun 11 09:21:50 i work in mobile distribution company(does other things too) Jun 11 09:21:57 they want that 50% Jun 11 09:22:10 They will lower your 3G caps Jun 11 09:22:18 Move you from a fixed cap to pay-by-MB Jun 11 09:22:26 that would be going backwards Jun 11 09:22:35 i got flatfee 3g now Jun 11 09:22:35 That would be bringing more revenue Jun 11 09:22:43 Besides, it is NOT backwards Jun 11 09:22:50 theres no revenue if there is no usage Jun 11 09:22:52 ATT still caps 3G Jun 11 09:22:59 There will be usage Jun 11 09:23:10 pay per mb kills 3g usage Jun 11 09:23:17 As long as your monthly 3G bill comes down to some affordable amount, there will be usage Jun 11 09:23:19 people use it a lot more if it's not per mb Jun 11 09:23:30 So, MB will cost less over 3G Jun 11 09:23:39 It is natural Jun 11 09:23:47 in reality, everywhere where you pay per mb it's ridiculous pricing Jun 11 09:23:57 Just because they have not figured it out yet Jun 11 09:24:00 Russians did Jun 11 09:24:19 They always charged per MB, even for wired internet access Jun 11 09:24:41 and it's crap, and lowers usage Jun 11 09:24:50 Not really Jun 11 09:25:07 It all depends on the actual price Jun 11 09:25:08 yes really, if you have to count how much youtube you look Jun 11 09:25:16 I don't Jun 11 09:25:28 or if you count how much shoutcast you can listen Jun 11 09:25:38 I pay $20 for 15GB/month and forget about it Jun 11 09:25:50 15gb is ridiculously low for wired Jun 11 09:25:53 Never comes that high Jun 11 09:26:09 i do sometimes 15g with my 3g.. Jun 11 09:26:17 Well, there is a catch Jun 11 09:26:23 LOCAL traffic is free Jun 11 09:26:38 yeah if you have a local ftp full of warez it's not that big deal Jun 11 09:26:43 And all the heavy content (movies, music, applications) can be found locally Jun 11 09:26:46 been on a capped student network Jun 11 09:27:09 but if you hadnt that then 15gb would limit your internet usage a lot, no torrents whatsoever Jun 11 09:27:16 Not really Jun 11 09:27:23 I do not watch that much video Jun 11 09:27:30 Not over the network anyway Jun 11 09:27:54 20$ should get you uncapped anyways Jun 11 09:27:54 YouTube is crap and I would rather download some MP3s than listen to them via "internet radio" Jun 11 09:28:03 if it was 2-4$.. a cap would be ok Jun 11 09:28:06 I can get uncapped for the same price Jun 11 09:28:13 But the speed will go down Jun 11 09:28:34 Right now, I have got 100Mbd in local net, 4Mbd outside Jun 11 09:28:56 Unlimited plan will lower that to 1.5Mbd Jun 11 09:29:29 *and* will require me run a VPN which I do not want to do Jun 11 09:30:14 sucks then Jun 11 09:30:34 around here some buildings have 100/10 for ~20-30e Jun 11 09:30:37 unlimited Jun 11 09:31:14 and my unlimited 3g is about 10e Jun 11 09:32:17 Morning Jun 11 09:32:21 I need volunteers Jun 11 09:32:27 for boring grunt work :( Jun 11 09:32:35 Ha Jun 11 09:32:54 hehe Jun 11 09:32:59 dneary: Wow.. you know how to market your stuff ;) Jun 11 09:33:28 I think I've migrated the most important user & community pages, but the developer section is in need of care & attention Jun 11 09:33:47 This is murely migrating & fixing wiki formating (and any minor issues in passing, if you spot them) Jun 11 09:33:56 An in-depth review of content will come after Jun 11 09:34:02 X-Fade: Yeah, I know :) Jun 11 09:34:18 Well, I prefer to be honest than have people be disappointed afterwardzs Jun 11 09:34:20 * GeneralAntilles shudders at the quality of the midgard articles. Jun 11 09:34:31 Yeah, they're pretty shocking Jun 11 09:34:38 In a few cases, I've just dumped them Jun 11 09:34:44 * rm_you doesnt even know what midgard is Jun 11 09:34:49 And in others, I've deleted 2/3rds Jun 11 09:34:52 other than the mythical home of the norse gods Jun 11 09:34:57 By and large, they're full of out-of-date technical methods that have been supplanted by newer, easier methods. Jun 11 09:35:00 rm_you: Let me guide you :) Jun 11 09:35:08 lol Jun 11 09:35:25 I can't bring myself to just deleting the technical stuff and providing a link and a short paragraph for the GUI method. :\ Jun 11 09:35:27 rm_you: There are two useful pages you'll need: Jun 11 09:35:39 1. The list of pages in the old wiki worth moving: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/wikireorg/ Jun 11 09:36:01 2. The proposed organisation of those pages in the new wiki: https://wiki.maemo.org/MAG:Categorization#Proposed_categories Jun 11 09:36:24 Every page in the "Development" column which isn't in italics has yet to be migrated Jun 11 09:37:20 You find that page in Midgard, get the wiki text for it by using the "view" action which X-Fade kindly added, and copy that text over to a new page in the MediaWiki Jun 11 09:37:36 Is this really a Delevopment article? http://wiki.maemo.org/Upgrading_tablet_OS Jun 11 09:37:41 (I've found that the easiest way to create those new pages is to create a link from the Categorization page) Jun 11 09:37:50 Flashing is a pretty integral part of most user's tablet usage. Jun 11 09:37:50 Well, maybe not Jun 11 09:38:01 Probably not, even Jun 11 09:38:33 Let's take one example, FM radio programming: Jun 11 09:38:49 I'm changing it to users. :P I'll add a Windows section for completeness' sake to round out the Users part. Jun 11 09:39:07 Make the name "Programming FM radio" to fit in with Mediawiki naming norms Jun 11 09:39:20 and make it into a link Jun 11 09:39:28 (just done) on the Categorization page Jun 11 09:39:55 Find the page in midgard: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/fmradioprogramming/ Jun 11 09:40:52 X-Fade: I can't remember how you got the raw wikitext Jun 11 09:40:57 It's not /raw/ Jun 11 09:41:51 Ah, damn... httpS Jun 11 09:43:13 dneary: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/source/fmradioprogramming/ Jun 11 09:43:30 Ah, rigt Jun 11 09:43:32 Thanks Jun 11 09:43:34 https://maemo.org/community/wiki/source/fmradioprogramming/ Jun 11 09:43:47 No need for https Jun 11 09:44:02 In, that page, "View source", Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C Jun 11 09:44:29 (alternative is to edit the page & copy & paste wiki text) Jun 11 09:45:51 morning Jun 11 09:45:52 Add {{Midgard article}} to the top, [[Category:Development]] and [[Category:Midgard wiki]] to the bottom Jun 11 09:46:02 Afternoon you mean, don't you? ;) Jun 11 09:46:28 Then, change the markdown to MediaWiki: Jun 11 09:46:33 # become = = Jun 11 09:46:41 ## becomes == == Jun 11 09:46:56 Bullet lists start on first column Jun 11 09:47:18 Preformatted stuff is surrounded by
, or is indented at least 1 space
Jun 11 09:47:42  Links go from [link text](link URL) to [link URL link text]
Jun 11 09:47:53  Wiki links probably need manyal setting/changing
Jun 11 09:47:58  dneary: I'll lock the old wiki.
Jun 11 09:48:23  _text_ can be changed to ''text'', **text** to '''text'''
Jun 11 09:48:27  etc. etc.
Jun 11 09:49:10  X-Fade, weird wiki bug. I've got a "You have new messages" banner that I can't get to go away. :\
Jun 11 09:53:51  Et voilà: https://wiki.maemo.org/Programming_FM_radio
Jun 11 09:54:11  End to end, approx. 15 minutes per page
Jun 11 09:54:21  Boredom factor: high
Jun 11 09:54:32  Usefulness factor: immesurable
Jun 11 09:54:38  So, who's game? :)
Jun 11 09:54:43  isn't better to just do a script to convert pages ?
Jun 11 09:55:17  dneary, may or may not be a useful recruiting venue: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=190736#post190736
Jun 11 09:55:38  I saw that
Jun 11 09:55:52 * andre__ should read itt more often to streamline bug reports
Jun 11 09:55:59  dneary: bit busy atm, but might find some time this evening
Jun 11 09:56:01  luogni: There's a lot of manual retouching to do anyway, and almost all the pages need to be renamed
Jun 11 09:56:07  hmm, nice idea
Jun 11 09:56:10  andre__, good luck with that. <_< :shudder:
Jun 11 09:56:14  luogni: But indeed, there is even a script that I wrote
Jun 11 09:56:38  heh... well, we got to get this going :)
Jun 11 09:57:33  itT has experienced a long descent into uselessness over the past 3 years.
Jun 11 09:58:10  Nowadays it's mostly just iPhone comparison stupidity and inane bitch-n-moan sessions that never result in anything productive.
Jun 11 09:58:22  GeneralAntilles: it happens once you get past some critcal level of waffle
Jun 11 09:58:58  GeneralAntilles: All the useful info should be distilled out and saved somewhere, some of those threads are sooo long, it's very hard to find what you want even if you know the thread
Jun 11 09:59:16  We had the same issues with the Zaurus.com forums and oesf.org forums
Jun 11 10:00:07  lardman, we tried that with the wiki
Jun 11 10:00:10  nothing ever came of it.
Jun 11 10:00:35  yes, we also tried and failed
Jun 11 10:01:06  in the end it needs someone who's familiar and interested in a given subject (and who's therefore read the threads) to write up and maintain a wiki page about that subject (IMO)
Jun 11 10:01:44  but people are scared of wikis (I was anyway :) so they need a prod
Jun 11 10:01:48  Wonder where that technut thread about either the strong core getting fed up and disappearing or the orbiting debris being blown away and the core coming out stronger went. Sadly, we seem to be experiencing the former.
Jun 11 10:02:17  depends on the density of the core ;)
Jun 11 10:02:49  dneary: I have now disabled editing on the old wiki.
Jun 11 10:02:57  Ah
Jun 11 10:03:07  Is it possible to have one page be an exception? ;)
Jun 11 10:03:15  on whether or not the core has dma access to the LCD ;)
Jun 11 10:03:17  X-Fade: Thank you, by the way :)
Jun 11 10:03:30  dneary: I'll give you edit rights?
Jun 11 10:03:36  hmmm halfapost..
Jun 11 10:03:55  hi folks, just popping past \o
Jun 11 10:05:44  Anybody with an N800 add some input here? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3233
Jun 11 10:07:11  X-Fade: I guess I have them already
Jun 11 10:07:17  I've never used the thumb keyboard
Jun 11 10:07:17  yep.
Jun 11 10:07:20  I just modified the page
Jun 11 10:07:26  Ever, lardman?
Jun 11 10:07:41  GeneralAntilles: never ever, it just annoys me when it pops up :)
Jun 11 10:07:43  Not even on the 770 or N800?
Jun 11 10:07:45  Weird.
Jun 11 10:07:55  I always use a stylus on those
Jun 11 10:08:00 * GeneralAntilles couldn't imagine getting by without it.
Jun 11 10:08:01  We're down to about 20 pages needing migration, then we need to fix all the content and that'll be the fun stuff
Jun 11 10:08:08  But first, lunch
Jun 11 10:08:11  :)
Jun 11 10:08:23  That might explain your fetish for the N810's keyboard. ;)
Jun 11 10:08:30  Indeed :)
Jun 11 10:08:32  I'd be irritated, too, if I had to use the vkb all the time.
Jun 11 10:09:09  GeneralAntilles: Thanks for that nice banner ;)
Jun 11 10:09:22  :P
Jun 11 10:09:29  Think of it as incentive.
Jun 11 10:10:35  GeneralAntilles: What plugin is that?
Jun 11 10:10:50  The banner? None, I think.
Jun 11 10:10:54  It's just mediawiki.
Jun 11 10:13:43  GeneralAntilles: At least now I got a mail from mediawiki about you adding something to my talk page.
Jun 11 10:18:37  X-Fade, you want me to file something in Bugzilla?
Jun 11 10:19:23  That would help. Then I can assign it to Ferenc.
Jun 11 10:27:42  is it possible to set some settign in microb that'd stop the scaler doing anything BUT text only?
Jun 11 10:27:56  I'm perusing about:config but so far only layout.full.zoom.mode.fast looks viable
Jun 11 10:28:58  Ave: So just set font size?
Jun 11 10:30:09  with the +- buttons
Jun 11 10:30:11  or?
Jun 11 10:30:33  currently it scales everything, which is bad
Jun 11 10:30:57  the bitmap scaling really sucks quality-wise so I'd rather not have it at all
Jun 11 10:33:04  X-Fade, https://bugs.maemo.org/post_bug.cgi
Jun 11 10:33:06  Ugh
Jun 11 10:33:08  I hate that
Jun 11 10:33:12  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3235
Jun 11 10:33:12  There
Jun 11 10:34:50 <[nine]> (side note regarding that bug) omniweb uses webkit now?
Jun 11 10:35:35  [nine], has for about forever now.
Jun 11 10:35:38  Since 5.0
Jun 11 10:35:53 <[nine]> i haven't used it since the dark days of the osx public beta in 2000.
Jun 11 10:36:11  It was awesome then, it's awesome now. :D
Jun 11 10:36:27  Ah, sorry, 5.5 was WebKit, actually.
Jun 11 10:36:31  2006.
Jun 11 10:36:38 <[nine]> it was awesome then. because the alternative was *shudder* internet explorer.
Jun 11 10:36:53  True, but it's still awesome compared to the alternatives now. ;)
Jun 11 10:46:35  Anyone running Diablo who has got a2dp to work for them?
Jun 11 10:47:30  Looks like the error I was seeing with my DSP version is also present in the non-DSP version
Jun 11 10:48:48  I seem to remember qwerty saying he was having troubles
Jun 11 10:50:01  hi guys
Jun 11 10:50:18  X-Fade, regarding the login page editing. Apparently you need the "editinterface" privileges (may or may not be on by default for sysops) to edit the login page. Alternatively, I think you can edit it from /includes/SpecialUserlogin.php locally. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3236
Jun 11 10:51:30  GeneralAntilles: Well, I'll have to get me some of these rights then ;)
Jun 11 10:51:45  Hehe
Jun 11 10:52:46 * GeneralAntilles spams website bugs for great karma.
Jun 11 10:53:23  Hehe. Yeah, I'll bet that will help you.
Jun 11 10:54:20  It's too bad triaging is so weak on the karma side.
Jun 11 10:54:41  GeneralAntilles: File an enhancement bug? :)
Jun 11 10:54:54  Good plan! :D
Jun 11 10:55:29  Who is directly responsible for the karma stuff? Quim?
Jun 11 10:55:30  I already requested a karma plugin for the new wiki already, so you should be getting more there :)
Jun 11 10:56:38  The Nemein guys are going to improve the karma system as task for the next 100 days.
Jun 11 10:56:39  Still waiting on that itT "Thanks!" karma . . . I'll be sittin' real pretty then. ;)
Jun 11 10:57:05  GeneralAntilles: Yeah, we would need a 0.00001 modifier there ;)
Jun 11 10:58:03  does anybody know that is it possible to get valgrind run in N810?
Jun 11 10:58:32  or is it only possible to play with it under x86?
Jun 11 11:00:05  X-Fade, I was hoping for a 2x so I could blow right past Quim. :D ;)
Jun 11 11:00:39  Yeah, but Quality is better than Quantity. ;)
Jun 11 11:00:53  Ooh buuurn
Jun 11 11:02:55  herwood: i think valgrind only works on x86
Jun 11 11:03:02  maybe PPC also
Jun 11 11:03:43  herwood: yep, http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/maemo_debugging_guide.html#valgrind
Jun 11 11:04:31  http://packages.debian.org/sid/valgrind , no armel there.
Jun 11 11:04:52  trickie|work: oh, what a pity.. now I have to find all the memory leaks by myself.. :P
Jun 11 11:05:08  herwood: Can't you just run it on the x86 target?
Jun 11 11:05:30  X-Fade: I have to run it in the actual device, because I use bluetooth
Jun 11 11:06:10  Hmm, yeah that is a bit more difficult.
Jun 11 11:06:59  But atleast I could start the program and shut it down to find some of the memory leaks
Jun 11 11:07:09  under x86
Jun 11 11:07:33  Yeah, and try to disable the bt part of functions.
Jun 11 11:07:40  Although that is probably a lot of work.
Jun 11 11:07:50  yeah
Jun 11 11:08:04  is there any other way to find memory leaks under arm?
Jun 11 11:08:43  analyze code by hand?
Jun 11 11:08:44  :)
Jun 11 11:08:49  ;)
Jun 11 11:08:54  ccmalloc for instance
Jun 11 11:08:56  Maybe you can look at smaps for the pid?
Jun 11 11:09:47  you could replace alloc with your own allocator (from a memory slab) and print out debugging info
Jun 11 11:10:31  it will quickly become fragmented, but might indicate where your code is not freeing
Jun 11 11:11:06  yeah, that could be one options
Jun 11 11:11:09  *option
Jun 11 11:22:51 * lcuk does not like leaks
Jun 11 11:26:45  Hey, do you guys know where i can find source for hildon-im-hwr-teach?
Jun 11 11:26:51  has anyone tried using wvdial or anyother PPP application from the Maemo device?
Jun 11 11:32:06  shres, I'm 99% sure it's not open, but if it is, it'll be somewhere around here: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/
Jun 11 11:32:33  GeneralAntilles, ah, that explains me not finding it. Thanks.
Jun 11 11:36:06  herwood: you could try some techniques at http://www.gnu.org/software/libtool/manual/libc/Allocation-Debugging.html
Jun 11 11:36:11  i never used it myself
Jun 11 11:43:23  trickie|work: thanks, I'll try that
Jun 11 11:52:16  Woah information overload!
Jun 11 11:52:58  came back for more?
Jun 11 11:53:11  On the n810 now
Jun 11 11:53:28  Got root.. Updated package lists... Its awesome
Jun 11 11:53:41  And works great with wmwifirouter
Jun 11 11:53:54  wm?
Jun 11 11:53:58  Keyboard sucks though :(
Jun 11 11:54:19  Yeah running on my wm phone.. Making it a wifi router
Jun 11 11:54:21  it's small, what would you expect
Jun 11 11:54:45  ever tried q1 umpc? ;)
Jun 11 11:55:08  i got two cards both connected to the internet, i would like to generate traffic from one interface (say eth0) to the other interface traversing the internet
Jun 11 11:55:09  I think i might just do with the n800
Jun 11 11:55:27 * KotCzarny has n800
Jun 11 11:55:30  Even my tiny phone keyboard is better than this
Jun 11 11:55:32  and a bt kb
Jun 11 11:55:50  umpc is not to me ... at this time... very expansive...
Jun 11 11:55:56  i tried by adding a rule in my routing table but it always use localhost
Jun 11 11:56:03  n810's keyboard is good imo :-(
Jun 11 11:56:16  I not live at USA... and here imports receive a 100% tax
Jun 11 11:56:20  much better than a virtual keyboard
Jun 11 11:56:29  But the n810 looks pretty and the screen is amazing
Jun 11 11:56:32  not much, but better
Jun 11 11:56:40  yeah, n810 is shiny :>
Jun 11 11:56:40  I would use a bluetooth keyboard
Jun 11 11:56:47  :)
Jun 11 11:56:53  n800 is enough for me
Jun 11 11:57:17  paying 200$ more just for chic factor?
Jun 11 11:57:19  nah
Jun 11 11:57:20  n810 is very good... but a x86 processor and 3D graphics are good...
Jun 11 11:57:34  and gps (albeit crappy)
Jun 11 11:57:53  wait for software updates
Jun 11 11:57:53  herwood, is there a reason why you can't just use ccmalloc?
Jun 11 11:58:21  Anunakin: and is heavy and works short on batteries?
Jun 11 11:58:22  I dont understand... why GPS on n810 needs 10 sats to sync. .. and not do nothing with 3 ....
Jun 11 11:58:26  or are you talking about some Everun?
Jun 11 11:58:27  astorm, btw. nokia's charger is 6.24V without load
Jun 11 11:58:31  Anunakin: no, just 3
Jun 11 11:58:38  I talking about UMPC
Jun 11 11:58:44  KotCzarny: w/o load = add a load and remeasure ;P
Jun 11 11:58:50  yeah
Jun 11 11:58:52  Anunakin: which UMPC?
Jun 11 11:58:56  probably goes down to 5.7
Jun 11 11:58:58  or something
Jun 11 11:58:59  no
Jun 11 11:59:00  Anyway back to work!
Jun 11 11:59:06  haha
Jun 11 11:59:07  to ~5V
Jun 11 11:59:13  have you measured it?
Jun 11 11:59:20  KotCzarny: yes
Jun 11 11:59:26  good
Jun 11 11:59:41  how is the AA project?
Jun 11 12:00:14  q1 ultra has 3.5h battery life
Jun 11 12:00:16  O.o
Jun 11 12:00:28  and mind you, it's battery is a biggie
Jun 11 12:02:27  yeah
Jun 11 12:02:33  these are very power-hungry
Jun 11 12:02:43  KotCzarny: right now it's stalled, no time, exams etc.
Jun 11 12:02:53  heh
Jun 11 12:02:56  need a proper case for the AAs and that bit of electronics
Jun 11 12:03:04  and a proper hard switch
Jun 11 12:03:19  the current one is junk
Jun 11 12:03:39  snatch one from an old lamp
Jun 11 12:03:48  the one that has a string to pull
Jun 11 12:03:49  :>
Jun 11 12:03:51  or a fighter jet
Jun 11 12:04:14  nah, too large
Jun 11 12:04:31  I need a small hard switch ;P
Jun 11 12:05:00  that's mostly a safeguard, an electronic soft switch would do (can signal the Maxim to turn off)
Jun 11 12:05:12  it'd still reduce battery drain a tiny bit
Jun 11 12:05:38  ah, and need to add a 5V led ;P
Jun 11 12:06:02  (and attach it to power_good wire)
Jun 11 12:06:02  how about battery meter?
Jun 11 12:06:03  :P
Jun 11 12:06:12  no, too expensive
Jun 11 12:06:19  would eat battery too
Jun 11 12:06:31  enable by user action
Jun 11 12:06:33  X-Fade_, is there a table up somewhere showing a breakdown of the karma weighting?
Jun 11 12:06:38  a button press powermeter is nice feat on some batteries(on some laptops etc)
Jun 11 12:06:40  ie. press some part of battery
Jun 11 12:06:46  KotCzarny: expensive, hard to fit, but... why not, maybe later
Jun 11 12:07:03  actually, could use the maxim when not operating to do that
Jun 11 12:07:05  astorm, it would be nice to know when you have to recharge
Jun 11 12:07:08  it has a comparator
Jun 11 12:08:49  although, that one is tuned to 1.5V
Jun 11 12:08:55  and not the slightly lower voltage
Jun 11 12:09:07  could use it anyway
Jun 11 12:10:24  k
Jun 11 12:10:29  time to go to sleep
Jun 11 12:10:36  nite people
Jun 11 12:11:12  oooh, I sense improvement
Jun 11 12:11:29  I'll use a synchronous rectifier instead of the Schottky diode
Jun 11 12:21:49  wnd: Sorry for my delay. I haven't heard from ccmalloc before. Is it easy to use?
Jun 11 12:23:13  basically you only need to link your application against it
Jun 11 12:23:50  the package comes with a wrapper, so in most cases it works as drop-in replacement for the compiler
Jun 11 12:24:03  ahaa, sounds good
Jun 11 12:24:43  I'll try that, because it sounds so "easy".. :)
Jun 11 12:25:31  it seems that the debian package build depends on g++-4.1, but it seems to compile and work with older g++, too
Jun 11 12:26:09  ok
Jun 11 12:27:50  i see that pupnik_ has wvdial working, but, where can i find documentation regarding that? http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2007-07-04.log.html
Jun 11 12:29:44  couple of questions: 1) since I'm thinking about paying wayfinder some money, is there easy way to install wippies/fon hotspots info to wayfinder 2) any software available to automatically login to wippies/fon networks in n810
Jun 11 12:34:17  wiza, just use Maemo Mapper?
Jun 11 12:34:57  GeneralAntilles: I thought it needed internet connection for routing?
Jun 11 12:35:29  and usually when I really need it, I'm middle of nowhere on some unpaved road on my motorcycle...
Jun 11 12:35:40  and 3g or even gprs is not always there...
Jun 11 12:36:07  and I like everything in same software
Jun 11 12:38:01  wnd: Yeah, ccmalloc works great! Thanks!
Jun 11 12:57:37  anyone about?
Jun 11 12:57:45  :)
Jun 11 12:57:52  No, we're sleeping.
Jun 11 12:58:04  yep. definately sleeping.
Jun 11 12:58:15 * rm_you is waiting for someone here to wake up and go to work so I can go to sleep
Jun 11 12:58:24 * rm_you is essentially time-sharing a bed >_<
Jun 11 12:58:58  Ha
Jun 11 12:59:17  That's called hot racking, rm_you. ;)
Jun 11 12:59:32  lol
Jun 11 12:59:50  yeah, 4 people sleeping in a 2 person apartment
Jun 11 12:59:54  only one couch...
Jun 11 13:00:07  so i wait for the guy with the comfortable bed to wake up and go to work :P
Jun 11 13:02:17  rm_you: While you're waiting, how about PerformanceOptimisation?
Jun 11 13:02:35  rm_you: or JavaLanguage?
Jun 11 13:02:41  oo JavaLanguage
Jun 11 13:02:45  what do i have to do?
Jun 11 13:03:39  rm_you: Move the contents of https://maemo.org/community/wiki/javalanguage/ to https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Java&action=edit, basically
Jun 11 13:03:56  You will need to redo markdown as mediawiki, thought
Jun 11 13:09:29 * GeneralAntilles pokes X-Fade again as he's shown a small sign of activity.
Jun 11 13:10:06  GeneralAntilles: There is no formal list for karma modifiers. But we have the config file in svn.
Jun 11 13:10:42  Hmm, ok.
Jun 11 13:11:05  Mind if I file an enhancement request for a karma description page generated based on that config?
Jun 11 13:11:21  GeneralAntilles: Or just create one in the wiki?
Jun 11 13:11:34  Or that, too.
Jun 11 13:11:40  Ah bergie should be able to tell you the karma modifiers ;)
Jun 11 13:11:47  GeneralAntilles: why so obsessed with karma? :P
Jun 11 13:12:03  Selfish reasons. ;)
Jun 11 13:12:09  X-Fade: what seems to be the problem?
Jun 11 13:12:11  and it's my nit to pick for this morning.
Jun 11 13:12:53   and it's my nit to pick for this morning.
Jun 11 13:13:03  bergie, happen to have a breakdown of the karma modifiers?
Jun 11 13:13:04  s/nit/Nokia Internet Tablet (?)/
Jun 11 13:13:05  rm_you meant:  and it's my Nokia Internet Tablet (?) to pick for this morning.
Jun 11 13:13:20  rm_you, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitpicking :P
Jun 11 13:13:30  yeah i know :P
Jun 11 13:13:57  GeneralAntilles: http://trac.midgard-project.org/browser/branches/MidCOM_2_8/net.nehmer.account/config/config.inc
Jun 11 13:14:12  GeneralAntilles: see the karma_xx_modifier keys near the end
Jun 11 13:15:47  Any breakdown on bugzilla?
Jun 11 13:18:20  maddler, ping
Jun 11 13:18:34  GeneralAntilles: No, it is only for filing at the moment. I think.
Jun 11 13:19:46  GeneralAntilles: bugzilla karma plugin is called externally and has its modifiers hard-coded into itself
Jun 11 13:19:53  Marcell did it (IIRC)
Jun 11 13:20:41  Well, I've got 30 bugs and 64 karma points on bugzilla. So, I guess the modifier's high and it hasn't updated in a bit?
Jun 11 13:21:06  But I think for itt posts we need a log scale type modifier ;) Because GA posts way too much..
Jun 11 13:22:00  with blogs and apps we take votes into account to try to modify for quality instead of quantity. Does ITT have anything similar?
Jun 11 13:23:03  bergie: Yeah, the thanks part is the quality modifier.
Jun 11 13:23:31  People can say thanks per post. So good posts receive a lot of thanks.
Jun 11 13:23:56  Basically  number_of_posts/thanks is your ratio..
Jun 11 13:27:05  I'd just use the Thanks! alone, as the ratio would be screwy for people who have been posting there since before the thanks system was implemented.
Jun 11 13:27:31  wow i have like 90 thanks and like... 15 posts <_<
Jun 11 13:27:42  Reggie set up an xml dump for it a few days ago, it's mentioned in one of the itT enhancement requests on bugzilla.
Jun 11 13:27:42  Yeah thanks/100 would be ok ;)
Jun 11 13:28:00  Woo adv-backlight!
Jun 11 13:28:05  :P
Jun 11 13:28:28  ahh
Jun 11 13:28:33  109 thanks, 52 posts <_<
Jun 11 13:28:46  only 2/1
Jun 11 13:35:01  rm_you: How's she coming along?
Jun 11 13:35:36  not very. not sure what exactly I'm doing here :P
Jun 11 13:35:39  i SUCK at wiki markup
Jun 11 13:35:52  X-Fade: You know karma isn't updating for some people, don't you?
Jun 11 13:36:29  dneary: Nah, they just don't do enough to get noticed :D
Jun 11 13:36:36  rm_you: I gave the 10 second guide earlier:
Jun 11 13:37:24   Then, change the markdown to MediaWiki:
Jun 11 13:37:24   # become = =
Jun 11 13:37:24   ## becomes == ==
Jun 11 13:37:24   Bullet lists start on first column
Jun 11 13:37:24   Preformatted stuff is surrounded by 
, or is indented at least 1 space
Jun 11 13:37:25   Links go from [link text](link URL) to [link URL link text]
Jun 11 13:37:27   Wiki links probably need manual setting/changing
Jun 11 13:37:29   _text_ can be changed to ''text'', **text** to '''text'''
Jun 11 13:37:31   etc. etc.
Jun 11 13:37:55  X-Fade: You talkin' 'bout me?
Jun 11 13:38:12  dneary: Could be ;)
Jun 11 13:38:59  ah missed that
Jun 11 13:39:37  X-Fade: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2481
Jun 11 13:39:50  dneary: I have no idea why it isn't updated.
Jun 11 13:40:05  Well, what's the metric?
Jun 11 13:40:16  Perhaps the email addresses don't match?
Jun 11 13:40:26  In which case, what can I do to merge?
Jun 11 13:40:37  You can't merge.
Jun 11 13:40:38  Perhaps wiki edits and creates aren't being taken into account?
Jun 11 13:41:03  But al least comments, favs and blogs should show up..
Jun 11 13:43:17  wait, how do i do bulletted lists?
Jun 11 13:43:35  i can dial out to USB-modem from N810 with ppp package? or do i also need wvdial?
Jun 11 13:44:30  there is already ppp package available for maemo
Jun 11 13:45:41  How can I configure FBReader to indicate the read/unread state of hyperlinks?
Jun 11 13:45:43 <||cw> wvdial is just a gui for ppp isn't it?
Jun 11 13:45:57  rm_you: http://wiki.maemo.org/Help:Editing ...er
Jun 11 13:46:15  ||cw, i would assume so
Jun 11 13:48:53  rm_you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet
Jun 11 13:50:00  i'm trying to open a file, and the file browser has me in some kind of chroot jail or something
Jun 11 13:50:11  I cannot find /home/user
Jun 11 13:50:32  i just see "audio clips", "documents", "games", etc
Jun 11 13:50:35  yes, the file chooser doesn't show a root at /
Jun 11 13:50:58  but in ~/MyDocs and /media/mmc* and a bluetooth root and whatnot
Jun 11 13:51:03  unixSnob, the file open/save dialog and file browser are trapped beneath /home/user/MyDocs
Jun 11 13:51:27 <||cw> sp3000: install an alternative file manager
Jun 11 13:51:38  or make a symlink? >_>
Jun 11 13:51:45  what a lousy implementation.  no way to climb above?  Does it work if I make a symbolic link to /
Jun 11 13:51:47  you can use the web browser, dunno how far a symlink gets you (not sure if there's anything atm that does stupid things wrt symlink loops, hope not)
Jun 11 13:52:08  it might loop the media-crawler, actually
Jun 11 13:52:15  i remember that being a problem
Jun 11 13:52:18  unixSnob, file an enhance request to nokia, but I bet the answer is "works as intended"
Jun 11 13:52:21  metalayer-crawler?
Jun 11 13:52:39  bug 1760, "This will be fixed in the next release (Diablo)."
Jun 11 13:52:47  rm_you, that's correct
Jun 11 13:52:48  so perhaps that's not a good idea (yet) ;)
Jun 11 13:53:34  johnx, don't file the request
Jun 11 13:53:37  it's already been filed
Jun 11 13:53:43  and yes, the answer is "works as intended"
Jun 11 13:53:48  heh
Jun 11 13:54:01  exposing a bunch of gibberish in the ui would be silly anyhow
Jun 11 13:54:04  Gross
Jun 11 13:54:25  Just pick an alternative file manager and keep stuff you need to get to a lot on the cards or in ~/MyDocs/
Jun 11 13:54:27  a textfile level pref otoh perhaps, but, meh
Jun 11 13:54:53  yeah, I actually don't mind too much
Jun 11 13:55:11  if you're hacking around in /etc you're better off in x-term anyways
Jun 11 13:55:25  Poll and Collection bin for comments about the d-pad for future internet tablets. I'd like everyone who plays games to vote, and if you voted 'don't like' to leave a brief comment.   http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20886
Jun 11 13:56:24  found this, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/users/34462?page=last
Jun 11 13:56:39  btw, is that true that only osso-xterm available on os08, or maybe more xterminals exists?
Jun 11 13:58:12  Xxaxx, any xterm you can compile will run, but osso-xterm fits in best
Jun 11 13:58:53  needs tabs
Jun 11 13:59:02  meh
Jun 11 13:59:03  It has tabs.
Jun 11 13:59:05  I have screen
Jun 11 13:59:11  there was hacked version of osso-xterm back in os07
Jun 11 13:59:53  Xxaxx, sse2.net/xterm
Jun 11 14:00:26  ugh
Jun 11 14:00:33  so many new emails
Jun 11 14:01:31  GeneralAntilles: will it be as second terminal or as the only one?
Jun 11 14:01:40  Install it over the default one. . . .
Jun 11 14:01:44  It'll upgrade it.
Jun 11 14:01:56  GeneralAntilles: how can I turn it back? :) reflash? :P
Jun 11 14:03:13  aika hintsusti on
Jun 11 14:03:29  Xxaxx, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/os2008/free/o/osso-xterm/
Jun 11 14:07:30  glass, tkäsi!
Jun 11 14:07:35  GeneralAntilles: it is empty! :P
Jun 11 14:07:47  It's in one of the official repositories.
Jun 11 14:07:55  So just remove it and reinstall it from there.
Jun 11 14:08:08  GeneralAntilles: I understand :) I will try it now :) new version I mean
Jun 11 14:08:20  GeneralAntilles: is that your version? :)
Jun 11 14:08:31  I'm using Diablo, and, no, jott compiled that.
Jun 11 14:08:57  And the "enhanced" version is my fault
Jun 11 14:09:19  Diablo xterm is worlds better than the Chinook xterm
Jun 11 14:09:38  hm :)
Jun 11 14:09:40  counter point: there are some small but noticeable improvements
Jun 11 14:09:52  johnx, the toolbar doesn't completely suck
Jun 11 14:09:56  and finger keyboard actually works.
Jun 11 14:09:59  General, I wonder if they used my fixes as base for it...
Jun 11 14:10:02  That's worlds compared to Chinook.
Jun 11 14:10:21  GeneralAntilles, I didn't notice any real difference or improvement on either :P
Jun 11 14:10:21  does the control+ modifier not behave RETARDEDLY?
Jun 11 14:10:30  GeneralAntilles: It seems that you have filed 28 bugs in bugzilla? That is what the karma plugin picks up.
Jun 11 14:10:31  johnx, then you weren't using it enough. <_<
Jun 11 14:11:14  possibly correct, I try to avoid it, because somehow even with a usb keyboard, using a term on a device that small is a PITA
Jun 11 14:11:24  31, X-Fade: https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&emailre
Jun 11 14:11:26  Oh
Jun 11 14:11:27  uh
Jun 11 14:11:28  Sorry
Jun 11 14:11:43  johnx, the finger keyboard return actually sends a return
Jun 11 14:11:53  Bugzilla urls are always very long ;)
Jun 11 14:12:02  and the toolbar doesn't close the vkb when you click on, say, Ctrl.
Jun 11 14:12:05  GeneralAntilles: I wouldn't use it if I were you, stick to the stylus ;)
Jun 11 14:12:17  Stylus keyboard sucks ass. ;)
Jun 11 14:12:22  :)
Jun 11 14:12:30  I get about 25wpm on stylus and 40-60 on finger
Jun 11 14:12:33  Which would you use?
Jun 11 14:13:16  heh...my zaurus w/ ssh
Jun 11 14:13:30  johnx: +1 :)
Jun 11 14:13:32  Given the two options above. :P
Jun 11 14:13:48  can't tab in the thumbboard
Jun 11 14:13:54  I like to be able to see the screen
Jun 11 14:14:08 * rm_you agrees... mostly just SSH in
Jun 11 14:14:09  I switch between both about half and half
Jun 11 14:14:21  and try to avoid either as much as possible
Jun 11 14:14:36  OK, whatever. :P
Jun 11 14:15:12  cool jobs at maemo.org
Jun 11 14:15:27  http://maemo.org/news/jobs
Jun 11 14:17:44  it is incredibly encouraging to see nokia put their $$$ where their mouth is in terms of paying for talent for maemo \o/
Jun 11 14:18:42  Now, if only they'd open a few select source packages...
Jun 11 14:19:23  X-Fade: Ping?
Jun 11 14:19:25 * johnx won't worry about that for now
Jun 11 14:19:36  dneary: Yep.
Jun 11 14:19:42 * rm_you worries about that now
Jun 11 14:19:52  https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?May2008Sprint&id=106&type=g is giving me a security error
Jun 11 14:20:08  dneary: Yes, the garage certificate has been revoked.
Jun 11 14:20:24  We should be getting a new one shortly..
Jun 11 14:20:36  ah
Jun 11 14:20:53  Do you know who installedd the MediaWiki? I want to give credit where it's due
Jun 11 14:21:03  Was it you, or Ferenc?
Jun 11 14:21:04  Ferenc did that.
Jun 11 14:22:39  X-Fade, is the karma generated dynamically or does it run an update once a day or something?
Jun 11 14:23:26  GeneralAntilles: Once a day.
Jun 11 14:28:57  hmm, i recall reading that the imap implementation that gmail use is limited at best. but i need to find where i read that...
Jun 11 14:29:06  pupnik_, shame most of them dont list location requirements
Jun 11 14:29:11  planet.maemo.org IIRC
Jun 11 14:29:15  GeneralAntilles: haha:) what difference between original osso-xterm and sse2.net version? :x I didn't see any:)
Jun 11 14:29:27  Eh, there's a lot :p
Jun 11 14:29:28  encoding ?
Jun 11 14:29:34  though google-imap+modest work well for me
Jun 11 14:29:42  qwerty12: for example ?
Jun 11 14:29:42  Xxaxx, Did you install .13 or .14?
Jun 11 14:29:47  .14
Jun 11 14:30:25  rm_you, you fail at logging in to the wiki. :P
Jun 11 14:30:36  Ah, some bug fixes present, the option to hide the scrollbar works etc. .13 shows more difference (tabs and vertical shortcut bar) but it is older :/ and you may not like
Jun 11 14:31:21  how about background/foregrownd black/white ?
Jun 11 14:31:31  and vertical shortcut bar, I like it:)
Jun 11 14:31:43  truth
Jun 11 14:31:55  i find gmail imap is very odd. and annoying too if you store anything other than email in it (e.g. apple mail's todo's)
Jun 11 14:32:47  GeneralAntilles,dneary : I at found a bug in the bugzilla karma. You should see a difference there tomorrow. (I hope) :)
Jun 11 14:33:10  Thanks, X-Fade.
Jun 11 14:33:11  qwerty12: how does agps-ui work?
Jun 11 14:33:18  It is just submitted bugs, though, right?
Jun 11 14:33:23  summatusmentis, No idea, n800 here
Jun 11 14:33:27  He doesn't have an N810.
Jun 11 14:33:46  I thought he'd posted on a blog somewhere, my mistake
Jun 11 14:34:08  Well, I was first to post a screenshot and maybe notice it :/
Jun 11 14:34:11  GeneralAntilles: Yes, but it seems a plugin for other bugzilla things should be possible.
Jun 11 14:34:14  But I couldn't test it out :p
Jun 11 14:34:24  ah, I can change the xterm colors, good:)
Jun 11 14:34:27  oh, ok
Jun 11 14:34:32  X-Fade: What was the bug?
Jun 11 14:34:40  X-Fade, that's good. Triagers should get their recognition. :D
Jun 11 14:35:05  summatusmentis: over a dbus message
Jun 11 14:35:08  It didn't update since a few weeks ;)
Jun 11 14:35:36  Thank the debian openssl bug for that ;)
Jun 11 14:35:46  summatusmentis: iirc gpsdriver asks for the info over dbus, but I only looked briefly
Jun 11 14:36:14  lardman: so it should work fine w/ maemo mapper then?
Jun 11 14:36:31  summatusmentis: yes, it operates at a lower level afaik
Jun 11 14:36:45  summatusmentis, the GPS framework is below the application level. ;)
Jun 11 14:36:51  It would make AGPS shit on the N810 if it only worked with Map 0.o
Jun 11 14:37:05  "Map" sucks however you look at it.
Jun 11 14:37:09  I agree, just wanted to clarify
Jun 11 14:37:24  GeneralAntilles, Agreed. I don't know why people bother to try and "crack" it.
Jun 11 14:37:30  summatusmentis, Yeah?! You wanna fight  about it! :P
Jun 11 14:37:32  I actually got a lock from stone cold yesterday, using agps, in ~2min
Jun 11 14:37:41  GeneralAntilles: you'd kick my ass
Jun 11 14:37:46  vector maps would be nice...
Jun 11 14:37:52  OSM....?
Jun 11 14:37:56  would love to see a vectormap plugin for MaemoMapper
Jun 11 14:37:56 * GeneralAntilles throws paper ninja stars at summatusmentis.
Jun 11 14:38:06  hmm... I've got 8 satellites in view... none connected
Jun 11 14:38:09  ooh, that's gotta hurt
Jun 11 14:38:19  psh, ninja starts? weak sauce
Jun 11 14:38:24 * summatusmentis activates force field
Jun 11 14:38:38 * rm_you orders some strong sauce for GeneralAntilles 
Jun 11 14:38:41  summatusmentis: the agps-ui is probably not accurate enough to be able to generate completely correct ephemeris data
Jun 11 14:39:16  lardman: I don't understand the word ephemeris, I just want a mapping program that works :)
Jun 11 14:39:45  would gps get a faster lock if user could specify where (s)he actually IS RIGHT NOW when starting gps?
Jun 11 14:39:46  summatusmentis: well that's independent of how the gps works
Jun 11 14:40:20  pupnik_, Isn't that kinda defeating the point of the GPS for some purposes?
Jun 11 14:40:25  lardman: well, no, I'm looking for a gps fix, mostly
Jun 11 14:40:36  "Applications may not be designed or marketed for real time route guidance; automatic or autonomous control of vehicles, aircraft, or other mechanical devices; dispatch or fleet management; or emergency or life-saving purposes."
Jun 11 14:40:40  summatusmentis: you have almanac which gives the rough pos'n & vectors of the satellites & ephemeris which corrects that - if you know what you can see and how fast they are moving you can spend more time on the right channels looking for their signals
Jun 11 14:40:40  Thanks rm_you
Jun 11 14:41:28  summatusmentis: gps fix is again independent of which mapping sw you use
Jun 11 14:41:30  pupnik_: That is how the new a-gps function can work in diablo. You can point on the map.
Jun 11 14:41:37  cool!
Jun 11 14:41:38  summatusmentis: that's down to the underlying bits & bobs
Jun 11 14:42:01  gpsd, gpsdriver etc
Jun 11 14:42:02  pupnik_: Or it can use cell info from your mobile phone.
Jun 11 14:42:22  pupnik_: I'm not sure of the accuracy of the ui though, would be good to be able to zoom into the map of the earth
Jun 11 14:42:32  lardman: right, ok
Jun 11 14:42:34  Someone should make uber ke-recv now that it's oss :)
Jun 11 14:42:56  X-Fade: I see agps-ui is closed, will it remain that way (you may not know)?
Jun 11 14:43:14  lardman: You answered your own question.
Jun 11 14:43:14  awesome, I've got a fix :)
Jun 11 14:43:35  It would be good to have a library to which we can pass a location, and it then talks to the supl server and updates gpsdriver
Jun 11 14:43:43  X-Fade: :)
Jun 11 14:43:52  it sort of seemed like it took a while, but that just might be maemomapper
Jun 11 14:48:33  wah, so Java actually sorta works on maemo?!
Jun 11 14:48:36  If you run agps-ui full screen (for example), a single pixel comprises a square of about 50x50 miles
Jun 11 14:48:42  i could actually code some crazy shit if I can use java :P
Jun 11 14:49:37  Yeah, Java on the NIT would be awesome
Jun 11 14:49:57  it does work :-°
Jun 11 14:50:11  Well... I wrote an app in java, an x-forwarded it to my tablet :P
Jun 11 14:50:15  and**
Jun 11 14:50:47  java works quite ok on the n8x0..
Jun 11 14:51:03  never got around testing the port... How does the UI behave ?
Jun 11 14:51:19  the swt bindings are even hildonized
Jun 11 14:51:44  lardman|afk: How would you feel about taking a hold of the "Programming the DSP" page?
Jun 11 14:51:44  and swing is slow and ugly as on the desktop ;)
Jun 11 14:51:55  Are we talking about jailmo or something else?
Jun 11 14:52:01  maemo mapper hates downloading POIs, apparently
Jun 11 14:52:02  yeah jalimo
Jun 11 14:54:35  andre|afk, thanks for the blog update! :D
Jun 11 14:59:46  lardman|afk: That said, I just noticed that you more or less have already :)
Jun 11 15:03:57  pupnik_, love your post in the N900 thread @Karel. :D
Jun 11 15:05:14  hehe
Jun 11 15:05:27  It's too bad he's turned into such an epic troll.
Jun 11 15:06:01  yeah well the grass is always greener on the vaporware side of the fence
Jun 11 15:06:07  It's actually really pisstaking, every post that he makes in any thread is about how nokia, N800 etc is shit
Jun 11 15:06:47  Hehe
Jun 11 15:06:51  Oh, itT
Jun 11 15:06:54  What a cesspool.
Jun 11 15:07:02  it's not that bad
Jun 11 15:07:16  It's close. :P
Jun 11 15:07:55  If they would have news:// interface to ItT I might read those rants more often :)
Jun 11 15:07:58  Woo, trolls
Jun 11 15:08:29  Navi's excited because he's reunited with people of his kind :p
Jun 11 15:08:59  ty for the comments on the dpad navi et al
Jun 11 15:09:10  np
Jun 11 15:09:35  GA: Was Karel a better human being before?
Jun 11 15:09:42  RST38h, yeah.
Jun 11 15:09:46  I mean, before he opened the Pandora box?
Jun 11 15:10:00  He sorta took a nose dive last Winter.
Jun 11 15:10:10  openpandora has some nice stuff for it already
Jun 11 15:10:11  Now it's mostly just sad.
Jun 11 15:10:38  Guy's probably gonna jerk off on his pandora when he gets it the amount of times he's been biggin it up.
Jun 11 15:10:43  I'm hoping I can scrape together the cash for both.
Jun 11 15:10:57  pshw
Jun 11 15:11:02  The sad part is, he is unlikely to achieve happiness when he gets it
Jun 11 15:11:21  RST38h, he's always talking about how many unsatisfactory handhelds he's been through.
Jun 11 15:11:22  definitely
Jun 11 15:11:35  GA: Well, it will be another one
Jun 11 15:11:41  I'll be able to achieve happiness if a new iNES is released :D *hint hint*
Jun 11 15:11:42  he will not enjoy a real community supported linux handheld, I'm certain of that
Jun 11 15:11:57  if he thinks the n8x0 somehow lacks polish he just needs to wait
Jun 11 15:12:07  Navi: releasing it is not difficult but the audio problem you are having will most likely stay =(
Jun 11 15:12:12 * GeneralAntilles is waiting patiently to jack all of the Pandora code when the N900 comes out.
Jun 11 15:12:13  :(
Jun 11 15:12:15  Navi, I think that is the biggest hint ever :P
Jun 11 15:12:23  GeneralAntilles, pfft
Jun 11 15:12:34  GA: Pandora is nothing more than an OMAP3 reference design in a shoddy casing
Jun 11 15:12:37  GeneralAntilles, the GP2X is a generally closed community source-wise
Jun 11 15:12:40  GeneralAntilles, I'll be going the other way :)
Jun 11 15:12:51  Nokia phones are OMAP2 reference designs (to be OMAP3 shortly)
Jun 11 15:12:56  Nah, qwerty12, this is: [size=∞]HINT[/size] :P
Jun 11 15:12:59  GeneralAntilles, even the GPL'd source they jack isn't opened
Jun 11 15:13:00  RST38h: ever find time to look at mplayer /trunk/libvo ?
Jun 11 15:13:06  GeneralAntilles, lol, got me there :p
Jun 11 15:13:16  Getting a Pandora, johnx?
Jun 11 15:13:18  pupnik: Nope - I have 11-14 hour workdays
Jun 11 15:13:23  GeneralAntilles, very likely
Jun 11 15:13:24  :/  i understand
Jun 11 15:13:30  does the n810 have fm radio?
Jun 11 15:13:36  I'll see how source openness plays out with the pandora
Jun 11 15:13:37  pupnik: lcuk is the best person to talk about it
Jun 11 15:13:43  summatusmentis, no muhahahaha
Jun 11 15:13:49  johnx, as badly as the GP2X?
Jun 11 15:13:50  pupnik: He has done some good progress on making YUV stuff work
Jun 11 15:13:51  :P
Jun 11 15:14:02  Navi, totally different company...
Jun 11 15:14:08  johnx, same community
Jun 11 15:14:09  qwerty12: oh, ok. I don't care that much, just curious
Jun 11 15:14:10  bye
Jun 11 15:14:11  Navi!
Jun 11 15:14:17  dneary, dave!
Jun 11 15:14:20  source openness does not sell units
Jun 11 15:14:21  Haha, Navi's done for now.
Jun 11 15:14:24  Baby!
Jun 11 15:14:26  Do you have about 15 minutes to help out with something?
Jun 11 15:14:28  Navi, I don't care about the source for someone's port, all I care about is an open kernel
Jun 11 15:14:59  johnx, oh, meh. Probably the same old stuff we have to deal with every day
Jun 11 15:15:01  Navi: Is your nick your first name backwards?
Jun 11 15:15:05  dneary, nope
Jun 11 15:15:08  ah
Jun 11 15:15:10  dneary, I've told you my name before :P
Jun 11 15:15:15  dneary, yeah, I have some time
Jun 11 15:15:17  dneary, what's up?
Jun 11 15:15:21  And I remember it, of course....
Jun 11 15:15:23  Navi, I'll see, *before* I buy
Jun 11 15:15:28  Remind me :)
Jun 11 15:15:32  Navi, It's on your bugzilla :p
Jun 11 15:15:38  dneary, Anthony
Jun 11 15:15:41  johnx, you definitely should apply for a discount code, though. :P
Jun 11 15:15:52  OK - how would you like to copy the wiki text from two pages to their MediaWiki home?
Jun 11 15:15:52  GeneralAntilles, I think I will this time
Jun 11 15:15:58  johnx, they have a repo for their stuff
Jun 11 15:16:10  Navi, ah, really?
Jun 11 15:16:15  johnx, they should.
Jun 11 15:16:22  or at least, they will :/
Jun 11 15:16:25  Navi: https://maemo.org/community/wiki/x11extensiontutorial/
Jun 11 15:16:29  they will probably
Jun 11 15:16:35  I haven't been keeping up with pandora progress
Jun 11 15:16:39  things are still under NDA until they ship though, AFAICT
Jun 11 15:16:40  to https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=X11_Extension_tutorial&action=edit
Jun 11 15:16:48  Navi, I have actually
Jun 11 15:17:09  I'm cautiously optimistic that either the n900(?) or pandora will be "what I want" :)
Jun 11 15:17:25  I'm pessimistic
Jun 11 15:17:26  You'll need to update the wiki text and add the following to the top: {{Midgard article}} and this to the bottom: [[Category:Development]]\n[[Category:Midgard wiki]]
Jun 11 15:17:35  I couldn't take the Pandora out of the house looking like it does.
Jun 11 15:17:38  They're both vaporware until they release
Jun 11 15:17:46  Navi, fair enough
Jun 11 15:17:52  but being optimistic is free for now
Jun 11 15:18:04  And if you are up for a second one: https://maemo.org/community/wiki/gamedevelopment/ to https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Game_development&action=edit
Jun 11 15:18:14  Well, either way, TI is definitely more open with the OMAP3 than 2.
Jun 11 15:18:18  Ah, OK. Yes - I recall
Jun 11 15:18:24  hah, curl was slow to respond with my tinyurl stuff :/
Jun 11 15:18:31  What about Nokia's openness?
Jun 11 15:19:09  thanks for the links dneary
Jun 11 15:19:18 * qwerty12 wants to cry, fsck wants to scan my hard disk on the next reboot (anyone using linux will know the pain) :(
Jun 11 15:19:29  pupnik_: No problem. which ones?
Jun 11 15:19:37  xsp
Jun 11 15:19:59  Navi, if both let me down, I'll buy a beagleboard and make a case for it out of *wood*
Jun 11 15:20:17  I'll hit up lcuk for help with that too :D
Jun 11 15:20:19  Wood? That thing still exists?
Jun 11 15:20:20  Pfft
Jun 11 15:20:26  johnx, that so wont be pocketable. :P
Jun 11 15:20:46  With the nails sticking out, it would be a nice weapon
Jun 11 15:20:53  hey, as long as I'm being crafty I'll sew new pockets to all my pants :D
Jun 11 15:21:08  If I do end up getting an openpandora, I'm planning on making new housing for it
Jun 11 15:21:16  This page is pretty painful to read: https://maemo.org/community/wiki/maemogaragestartup/
Jun 11 15:21:31  pupnik_: ?
Jun 11 15:21:36  You lost me
Jun 11 15:21:41  The official design just sucks so much balls
Jun 11 15:21:54  Navi, I don't mind it too much
Jun 11 15:22:02  johnx: duct tape the beagle board - you could also attach a display on it this way ;)
Jun 11 15:22:03  https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=X11_Extension_tutorial
Jun 11 15:22:05  you want it more tablet-like?
Jun 11 15:22:15  I would have preferred something closer to the GP2X
Jun 11 15:22:25  I like having a keyboard
Jun 11 15:22:26  gaming buttons all on the face
Jun 11 15:22:30  slide out keyboard
Jun 11 15:22:39  Navi, that would have been nice
Jun 11 15:22:42  johnx, you should just get this: http://www.mistralsolutions.com/business_divisons/omap_3evm.php
Jun 11 15:22:48  At least you don't have to worry about the screen then.
Jun 11 15:22:53  Navi, apparently they're somewhat afraid of patents on that stuff
Jun 11 15:23:07  pupnik_: Ah!
Jun 11 15:23:23  pupnik_: You're taking on the migration?
Jun 11 15:23:33  GeneralAntilles, yeah, it's only a bear board for *10x* the price :P
Jun 11 15:23:45  no and i shouldn't even be chatting here now
Jun 11 15:23:56  I was gonna s/ that but it does look like a bear :P
Jun 11 15:24:05  ffh.  oh well - consequence.  bb someday
Jun 11 15:25:00  https://maemo.org/community/wiki/gamedevelopment/ to
Jun 11 15:25:08  sigh
Jun 11 15:26:18  I'm working on the X11 extension thing so if anyone wants to migrate the gamedev article, knock yourself out
Jun 11 15:26:22  ugh.. the gamedevelopment article should be split up and the links on the bottom should be removed.. maybe i'll find some time when i'm back home
Jun 11 15:27:20  i was just sighing about my inability to use putty :)
Jun 11 15:30:03  hrm, pandora looks awesome on first scan <_<
Jun 11 15:30:06  anyways, sleep for me
Jun 11 15:30:07  night all
Jun 11 15:30:17  night
Jun 11 15:30:28  'night rm_you
Jun 11 15:30:34  Weird part message from pupnik. :\
Jun 11 15:30:51  dneary: yes that's fine
Jun 11 15:30:58  dneary: do I need to import it?
Jun 11 15:31:13  jott: Yes, I agree
Jun 11 15:31:36  jott: But if you wanted, a pure migration with someone else following up with an edit would be fine
Jun 11 15:32:35  Anyone know how to do a mailing link in mediawiki?
Jun 11 15:32:58  dneary: yeah i see what i can do in a few hours from now. i could also do some cleanup if someone migrated the article in the meantime
Jun 11 15:33:22  got to go now
Jun 11 15:33:29  Navi, [link name] doesn't work?
Jun 11 15:38:12  Is there a way to 'remote control' a phone via bluetooth?
Jun 11 15:38:24  I've heard of phone-link
Jun 11 15:38:28  GAN800, no
Jun 11 15:38:28  never tried it
Jun 11 15:38:47  I've heard of it, but I wasn't able to use it 'cuz my phone wasn't support it
Jun 11 15:39:17  garage's certificate has been revoked?
Jun 11 15:39:19  I would <3 the person to convert bt info from Java into C/whatever
Jun 11 15:39:34  Java's not bad
Jun 11 15:39:44  I'd never looked at the Pandora before, looks pretty cool
Jun 11 15:39:57  summatusmentis, yeh
Jun 11 15:40:01  getting a new one
Jun 11 15:40:19  Hope it's not as annoying :P
Jun 11 15:40:46  lardman, the omap3 is a very interesting board. It will be fun to see what linux devices come out based on it :)
Jun 11 15:40:53  s/board/chipset
Jun 11 15:41:00  GAN800: [URL link text] works
Jun 11 15:41:13  [email address] doesn't
Jun 11 15:41:48  Just waiting on that and subsections
Jun 11 15:41:48  johnx: yep, nice open documentation :)
Jun 11 15:41:57  and serious guts
Jun 11 15:42:04  I'd know how if the mediawiki guide would fscking load
Jun 11 15:42:08  Navi: any idea as to when the new one will come?
Jun 11 15:42:16  summatusmentis, ask X-Fade
Jun 11 15:42:19  I think it will be an interesting year or two for embedded linux :)
Jun 11 15:42:42  btw, have anyone seen hildonised links2 (x11 graphic version) ?
Jun 11 15:42:48  (links -g)
Jun 11 15:43:43  Xxaxx, does links2 use gtk for a toolkit?! O_o
Jun 11 15:43:47  Navi, [mailto:info@example.org email me] ?
Jun 11 15:43:53  johnx: noop
Jun 11 15:43:56  nope :)
Jun 11 15:44:12  then hildonizing it would mean making a new links based on gtk first :P
Jun 11 15:44:41  "links -g" need only two features :) input and fullscreen :)
Jun 11 15:44:47  GeneralAntilles, yeah, that works
Jun 11 15:44:47  virtual keyboard input I mean
Jun 11 15:45:07  dneary, https://wiki.maemo.org/X11_Extension_tutorial
Jun 11 15:45:10  how's that?
Jun 11 15:45:30  Xxaxx, and the hildon-input-method will only work with gtk apps
Jun 11 15:45:53  johnx: yes, but fbreader not gtk application for example ,)
Jun 11 15:46:00  whoops
Jun 11 15:46:03  it is I believe...
Jun 11 15:46:09  it isn't
Jun 11 15:46:19  yes, it is
Jun 11 15:46:27  want me to run ldd on it or something?
Jun 11 15:46:44  better look in source :)
Jun 11 15:46:44  It's got zlibrary for the text rendering
Jun 11 15:46:51  yes
Jun 11 15:46:59  Xxaxx: fbreader uses a widget abstraction layer that can use many diverse toolkits as backend
Jun 11 15:47:02  on maemo it uses gtk
Jun 11 15:48:08  yes, but for "links -g" must be possible to make dirty hacks without full intergration
Jun 11 15:48:22  Only if it is GTK
Jun 11 15:48:49  hildon-input-method only works with gtk (python too but I guess python is only interpreted)
Jun 11 15:49:11  qwerty12, only python apps that use gtk for a toolkit :)
Jun 11 15:49:22  python with the python gtk wrappers which import the hildon module
Jun 11 15:49:35  johnx, Ah, ok :). I assumed it was all python >.<
Jun 11 15:49:45  you can use hildon-input-method not only with gtk, you can use it with plain x11 application with a little hack
Jun 11 15:50:02  Well recompile links2 with that little hack.
Jun 11 15:50:11  :D
Jun 11 15:50:26  I was tried, without luck.
Jun 11 15:50:32  phonelink is not happy software
Jun 11 15:50:45  Xxaxx, can you tell us about the hack. I'm sure others would be interested
Jun 11 15:50:50  Navi: Looks great!
Jun 11 15:50:52  summatusmentis, give it a cookie?
Jun 11 15:50:53  summatusmentis, Trying to use it on a CDMA phone or something?
Jun 11 15:51:03  I just added categories and the Midgard article template at the top
Jun 11 15:51:12  qwerty12: well, yes
Jun 11 15:51:22  johnx: https://garage.maemo.org/snippet/detail.php?type=package&id=2 ?
Jun 11 15:51:32  Well, I don't know if BREW believes in AT commands with CDMA being the POS it is
Jun 11 15:51:59  dneary, I noticed
Jun 11 15:52:02  I'm not disagreein CDMA is a pos, but it works where i need it to
Jun 11 15:52:04  dneary, thanks
Jun 11 15:52:07  +g
Jun 11 15:52:11  works fine on my W810, but it doesn't like my Symbian phones >.<
Jun 11 15:52:17  Anyone do the gamedev article yet?
Jun 11 15:52:41  Navi, http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Recentchanges
Jun 11 15:53:00  Don't forget to log in when editing.
Jun 11 15:53:01  Xxaxx, hildon-input-method has changed quite a bit since then. That's likely the source of your problems...it is likely still possible of course
Jun 11 15:53:11  qwerty12: can you recieve calls? or does it just notify you that you're ringing?
Jun 11 15:53:14  GeneralAntilles, no. I rather people see mah IP an' haxxorz me
Jun 11 15:53:23  Navi, karma. :P :D
Jun 11 15:53:29  Screw karma.
Jun 11 15:53:38  Even more reason not to register
Jun 11 15:53:41  summatusmentis, Never tried out that feature, all I tried out was the texting and ringing calls which work for me fine
Jun 11 15:53:54  log in*
Jun 11 15:54:03  summatusmentis, See if there is a version of gnokii with cdma support or the like
Jun 11 15:54:52  GeneralAntilles, I was asking in case there hasn't been a commit
Jun 11 15:55:02  GeneralAntilles, I can see that the page doesn't exist quite well
Jun 11 15:55:03  qwerty12: and the calling out is all done through the n8x0 right? you don't still have to pick up your phone to actually talk to someone?
Jun 11 15:55:18  Ah, I see, but it's still a worthwhile bookmark.
Jun 11 15:55:40  johnx: eh ;(
Jun 11 15:55:49  summatusmentis, no, you have to pick up the phone physically, phonelink just dials the number (but if you have a bluetooth headset connected to the phone, you don't need to pick up anything)
Jun 11 15:56:31  does this work reliably?
Jun 11 15:56:46  qwerty12: intriguing
Jun 11 15:57:01  my ancient phone (t68i) didn't relinquish the bluetooth connection with my palm that did the number dialing fast enough to connect to the BT headset
Jun 11 15:57:05  or something like that
Jun 11 16:00:09  Navi: Looks like it's till up for grabs
Jun 11 16:00:16  dneary, yeah, working on it
Jun 11 16:00:26  Navi: Cool
Jun 11 16:08:36  dneary, can I skip the projects with broken links?
Jun 11 16:08:47  which ones?
Jun 11 16:09:27  Well, none of the indt screenshots work
Jun 11 16:09:41  The whole game list is really not needed in the first place
Jun 11 16:14:06  dneary, what should I do about it?
Jun 11 16:14:19  Ah
Jun 11 16:14:26  Leave the links out
Jun 11 16:14:34  Keep the projects in?
Jun 11 16:14:35  Or perhaps put them in comments
Jun 11 16:14:50  You mean screenshots of games etc?
Jun 11 16:15:19  Well, I was talking about the links to the screenshots before
Jun 11 16:15:40  But do you want to keep the names of the projects and their descriptions in?
Jun 11 16:36:06  dneary, still here?
Jun 11 16:36:53  Yup
Jun 11 16:36:56  lol @ small headings
Jun 11 16:36:58  Just busy :)
Jun 11 16:37:03  dneary, https://wiki.maemo.org/Game_development
Jun 11 16:37:17  https://wiki.maemo.org/MyDocs_folder
Jun 11 16:37:47  Navi: OK - I understand your question better now
Jun 11 16:37:54  I think we should just drop the games from the page
Jun 11 16:38:27  Navi, the whole header hierarchy should probably be moved up a place (i.e. == to =) or the SDL section needs to be reworked.
Jun 11 16:38:32  The headers get too small.
Jun 11 16:39:06  GeneralAntilles, do it yerself
Jun 11 16:39:12  OK. :)
Jun 11 16:40:15  dneary, k
Jun 11 16:40:31  dneary, so, take it out?
Jun 11 16:40:39  Don't mid-air collision me
Jun 11 16:40:43  You want the game section dumped?
Jun 11 16:40:50  Yup
Jun 11 16:40:53  GeneralAntilles, mediawiki has diffs for that
Jun 11 16:40:53  So - I desist
Jun 11 16:40:59  I will stop editing
Jun 11 16:41:09  I was thinking of keeping "External links"
Jun 11 16:41:12  Yeah, but it's not automated. :P
Jun 11 16:41:12  It warns you when someone makes a commit before you :P
Jun 11 16:41:18  Navi: it gives you the entire page "before" and "after", it's pretty lame
Jun 11 16:41:20  copy and paste
Jun 11 16:41:23  you still have to do a manual merge
Jun 11 16:41:29  Easy 'nuff
Jun 11 16:41:34  which is just crap considering how many tools there are for doing 3-way merges
Jun 11 16:41:40  and showing inline conflicts
Jun 11 16:41:43  OK, submitted.
Jun 11 16:41:48  it's un-necessarily annoying :)
Jun 11 16:42:15  Seems like somebody should've written a plugin for it.
Jun 11 16:46:51  Hi Robot101
Jun 11 16:47:03  dneary: hola
Jun 11 16:48:16  Now, what would really be great, and it's really the last worthwhile content I have seen from Midgard, is if "Getting started on Garage" could get content reviewed, heavily edited and mograted
Jun 11 16:48:57  The "MaemoGarageStartUp" page
Jun 11 16:49:59  I'd like to see that as part of an Extras/Downloads/Garage documentation thing for developers
Jun 11 16:58:30  GeneralAntilles, you're welcome :)
Jun 11 17:01:27  maemo.org status updates are always useful. Good to throw at idiots who claim there's nothing happening.
Jun 11 17:01:40 * GAN800 prods X-Fade to blog more.
Jun 11 17:02:00  GAN800: Dude, I do about one a week. Where's yours? :)
Jun 11 17:02:15  I don't blog. :P
Jun 11 17:02:16  My current blog rate is about 2 posts/year
Jun 11 17:02:20  +post
Jun 11 17:02:39  inz, congrats, you've topped my record at 0
Jun 11 17:02:42  Lolblog
Jun 11 17:02:55  ^
Jun 11 17:03:04  Ok guys, I have now installed a self-signed certificate on garage as a temporary solution while we wait for Verisign to give us the right one.
Jun 11 17:03:10  I blog on itT, anyway.
Jun 11 17:03:33  I ignore itt
Jun 11 17:03:47  A wise plan.
Jun 11 17:03:58  X-Fade, But but but firefox won't let me in: "The certificate is not trusted because it is self signed."; you are trying to hack my computer!
Jun 11 17:04:17  qwerty12: Well, but now you can at least add an exception.
Jun 11 17:04:28  I try and bring as many of the non-idiots out of itT and into the maemo community-proper as I can.
Jun 11 17:04:33  We revoked the old one and FF3 wouldn't let you in at all.
Jun 11 17:05:04  Heh, I'm only joking, I add certificates anyway when ff3 won't let me in, I don't really give a toss about it being dodgy, I just wanna see the content :p
Jun 11 17:05:07  So even though self signed is bad, it is better than no access at all ;)
Jun 11 17:06:42  Reggie: "I would think that the maemo.org wiki will be a good replacement for the itT wiki". With the people at ITT, I hope not.
Jun 11 17:07:22  Hehe, again, pulling the useful people out into the larger community. ;)
Jun 11 17:08:08  But it seems like an invite for noobs :/. The useful people do/should already know about the wiki.
Jun 11 17:08:22  Nah, n00bs aren't too bad on a wiki.
Jun 11 17:08:36  They're usually scared off on just take baby steps
Jun 11 17:08:52  Once you get 'em taking baby steps you can make them into something useful.
Jun 11 17:09:47  Cool, I'd contribute more to these sort of things if my English was brilliant on wiki (dodgy because on paper, I'm brilliant >.>) and if I knew some wiki basics, html & css
Jun 11 17:10:18  No need for html or css
Jun 11 17:10:29  and english isn't a huge hurdle for technical stuff
Jun 11 17:10:40  besides, that's what the other editors are for.
Jun 11 17:11:27  Are you only allowed to add one comment per entry in Downloads?
Jun 11 17:12:04  is there anyone got their nokia 770 replaced/fixed under warranty?
Jun 11 17:12:13  I need to find a larger mini-sd card
Jun 11 17:12:26  or even micro-sd w/ adapter
Jun 11 17:12:52  i'm thinking which symptons are enough to get this thing fixed
Jun 11 17:12:58  I need to start packaging my compiles a whole lot better, the aircrack-ng I posted before is the only one I've put real effort into :/
Jun 11 17:14:30  !!! 8GB mini-sd on newegg
Jun 11 17:14:39  and then start pushing them to Extras-devel. ;)
Jun 11 17:14:46  lol? summa
Jun 11 17:14:59  Yeah, push them to -devel!
Jun 11 17:15:01  GAN800: oh, for $33 also
Jun 11 17:15:05  that's awesome
Jun 11 17:15:20  Had you not looked before? :P
Jun 11 17:15:23  I just steal debian pkgbuilds and modify them
Jun 11 17:15:26  s'not hard
Jun 11 17:15:32  I don't have enough faith in my compiles to put then in extras-devel
Jun 11 17:15:42  it wasn't there before... last time I looked, they only had 4GB ones, for like $40
Jun 11 17:15:47  That's what the -devel is for. ;)
Jun 11 17:15:55  qwerty12: -devel is for experimental stuff :)
Jun 11 17:16:12  qwerty12: And you can even use the autobuilder to test the quality.. ;)
Jun 11 17:16:19  the micro-sd ones are pricy though
Jun 11 17:16:37  Cool, I'll work on Conky and put that in -devel, seems to be the most popular thing I've compiled
Jun 11 17:24:41  Hmm, does xournal have a feature where it can annotate on any program on the screen?
Jun 11 17:25:59  provided you take a screenshot first
Jun 11 17:26:25  Ah, cool, thanks for the answer
Jun 11 17:27:03  heh...sorry. :P I think the answer would be no, in general
Jun 11 17:27:33  qwerty12: Only if you put screenshots in a pdf?
Jun 11 17:29:15  I wish maemo.org things would keep me signed in. <_<
Jun 11 17:29:33  Love/hating planet stuff is always a two-step process. . . .
Jun 11 17:30:10  GeneralAntilles: That is going to happen as soon as we have the new servers in place.
Jun 11 17:30:24 * GeneralAntilles is looking forward to that.
Jun 11 17:30:33  So you are finally replacing the N800's with Apache running on them? :p
Jun 11 17:30:45  Nah, upgrading FROM 770s TO N800s. :P
Jun 11 17:30:53  heh
Jun 11 17:31:02  Any of this upgrading gonna help with tablets-dev and Extras?
Jun 11 17:31:22  Oh believe me, me too.
Jun 11 17:31:44  Since I'd say tablets-dev and Extras are easily way more important than maemo.org
Jun 11 17:31:55  .
Jun 11 17:31:58  GeneralAntilles: Those servers are mirrord by a huge caching network.
Jun 11 17:31:59  lol
Jun 11 17:32:14  X-Fade, which fails totally.
Jun 11 17:32:21  Thank God catalogue.tableteer is a nokia.com site...
Jun 11 17:32:49  They might as well not be cached at all for all the good it's done. :\
Jun 11 17:32:49  Yeah there is something that expires the files from the cache way too soon.
Jun 11 17:33:11  tablets-dev and Extras HAVE to be 100% uptime.
Jun 11 17:33:13  Period.
Jun 11 17:33:44  X-Fade, Anyway, how comes you made /something report it's not found :p. When I got the password, I expected the Nokia collection of porn only to find some useless testing files and now they appear to have gone :( :P
Jun 11 17:34:47  qwerty12: I can't follow?
Jun 11 17:34:58  Especially with apt's ridiculously long timeout.
Jun 11 17:35:09  It's fun waiting 20 minutes to find out the repos aren't up.
Jun 11 17:35:09  X-Fade, http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/something/ :)
Jun 11 17:35:21  (http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/ lists something btw)
Jun 11 17:35:30  So I know that message is lying to me :P
Jun 11 17:35:34  qwerty12: I don't have access to those machines.
Jun 11 17:35:42  Ah, ok, my bad :/
Jun 11 17:36:02  That is on the other side of the big firewall ;)
Jun 11 17:36:58  The great firewall of China?
Jun 11 17:37:03  GeneralAntilles, you could try to set timeout for the connections ;-)
Jun 11 17:37:06  I having a problem with my system clock... date comand works, but on controlpanel (maemo) this crach when I try change my time
Jun 11 17:37:14  wnd, yes, but that doesn't help the end-users.
Jun 11 17:37:15  any hope?
Jun 11 17:37:28  Which are the people most impacted by that stupidity.
Jun 11 17:37:41  hence the ";-)"
Jun 11 17:37:57  While we're on the subject, can we make the sort-order less retarded on http://repository.maemo.org/dists/ ?
Jun 11 17:38:38  GeneralAntilles: You got to love that one, right? :P
Jun 11 17:38:56  I just search for whatever I'm looking for when I'm browsing through there.
Jun 11 17:39:44  GeneralAntilles: Put it on my TODO list ;)
Jun 11 17:39:55  Maybe I should have one on the wiki?
Jun 11 17:40:05  Sounds like a good plan.
Jun 11 17:40:12  Something I can point at is always useful for me.
Jun 11 17:40:35  I'd have to bug somebody else to do it, but I'm good at that..
Jun 11 17:41:19  You want a bug for it?
Jun 11 17:41:42  GeneralAntilles: I seem to recall there actually is one?
Jun 11 17:41:49  Maybe
Jun 11 17:41:51  seriously though...how did the sort order end p like that...I can't even figure out what it's sorting on
Jun 11 17:41:57  I remember hrw mentioning it a few times.
Jun 11 17:42:03  date?
Jun 11 17:42:12  inode
Jun 11 17:42:43  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2403
Jun 11 17:43:24  karma hunter ;)
Jun 11 17:44:09 * GeneralAntilles wants that cheap N900 realbadyeah
Jun 11 17:44:22  is the gps on n810 kinda bad or is there some trick or required conditions to getting a connection to a satellite?
Jun 11 17:44:51  it's not the best
Jun 11 17:45:00  gps status seems to be "searching" all the time
Jun 11 17:45:01  Improvements are coming in Diablo.
Jun 11 17:45:05  trick: stay inside an open area.
Jun 11 17:45:05  try to have a view of the southern sky when getting a fix
Jun 11 17:45:06  :D
Jun 11 17:45:40  i couldn't get a lock in a forest
Jun 11 17:46:02  I played Diablo years ago and it's still not working!
Jun 11 17:46:17  :D
Jun 11 17:47:16  does cloudy weather hamper gps?
Jun 11 17:47:43  Yep
Jun 11 17:48:02  that might be it then, I guess
Jun 11 17:48:13  it's very cloudy
Jun 11 17:48:29  note: don't get lost when it's cloudy
Jun 11 17:48:45  that would suck
Jun 11 17:48:54  Pow
Jun 11 17:48:54  especially if it rains
Jun 11 17:49:51  Numpty physics is so awesome
Jun 11 17:51:04  bad weather shouldn't prevent getting the fix, just increase the first fix time a bit..
Jun 11 17:51:47  pekuja: Under trees, between buildings. It can all hamper reception.
Jun 11 17:51:55  kulve, what if the situation is borderline already?
Jun 11 17:52:14  johnx: then you are ofc in trouble :)
Jun 11 17:52:27  right :)
Jun 11 17:52:44  buildings tend to be difficult as the reflect the signals..
Jun 11 17:52:50  s,the,they,
Jun 11 17:53:05  that might be why I couldn't get it to work last night
Jun 11 17:53:46  GeneralAntilles: cheap n900?
Jun 11 17:53:59  http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/500_fortunate_applicants.html
Jun 11 17:54:06  oh the dev thing
Jun 11 17:54:10  right
Jun 11 17:54:45  unless it's got huge improvements, I'll probably stick w/ my n810 for a while
Jun 11 17:54:54  N900!?
Jun 11 17:55:18  gadgetoid, no info yet.
Jun 11 17:55:25  gadgetoid: Yeah, don't you have that? I have the N1210 already ;)
Jun 11 17:55:38  We're basically 99% sure it'll be OMAP3430, but that's about all of it.
Jun 11 17:55:41  "The class midcom_user is not default constructible."
Jun 11 17:55:48  when you click on any name in that announcement
Jun 11 17:56:06  Haha I can try bugging my pr contact about it
Jun 11 17:56:15  But i should imagine they will keep mum
Jun 11 17:56:21  GeneralAntilles: Are you? I would guess it is just a bit too early for that?
Jun 11 17:56:24  what's the price difference between OMAP3xxx and 2xxxx?
Jun 11 17:56:37  X-Fade, well, what ELSE would it be. ;)
Jun 11 17:56:41  I've played a bit with 3430's and at least it can play videos decently ;)
Jun 11 17:56:46  -'
Jun 11 17:56:59  mgedmin, they'll be about the same as the OMAP2s were in 2007. ;)
Jun 11 17:57:08  GeneralAntilles: OMAP2 still?
Jun 11 17:57:17  I can barely find the cash to hold on to an n800 let along the next best thing
Jun 11 17:57:27  X-Fade, no way.
Jun 11 17:57:34  why not?
Jun 11 17:57:45  They do that, and I'm buying an iPhone.
Jun 11 17:57:56  they might have a secret deal with apple
Jun 11 17:58:05  We're at 3 OMAP2 tablets
Jun 11 17:58:08  more than enough thank you very much
Jun 11 17:58:18  Besides, what would be the motivation for sticking with OMAP2?
Jun 11 17:58:23  cost
Jun 11 17:58:28  GeneralAntilles: Dual OMAP2? :)
Jun 11 17:58:33  Pfft
Jun 11 17:58:36  binary compatibility of software
Jun 11 17:58:41  (existing software)
Jun 11 17:58:41  It's an SoC, it doesn't work like that.
Jun 11 17:58:46  in both directions
Jun 11 17:59:01  mgedmin, and loosing a shitton of existing customers to the competition?
Jun 11 17:59:02  mgedmin, won't be much of an issue for 90% of what's out there I would think
Jun 11 17:59:08  what competition?
Jun 11 17:59:10  s/loosing/losing/
Jun 11 17:59:10  GeneralAntilles meant: mgedmin, and losing a shitton of existing customers to the competition?
Jun 11 17:59:13 * X-Fade would love to have an OMAP3 tablet :)
Jun 11 17:59:17  Pandora, iPhone, etc
Jun 11 17:59:24  hmm
Jun 11 17:59:30  "competition"
Jun 11 17:59:33  Eee
Jun 11 17:59:35 * johnx *will* have an omap3 linux handheld *one way or the other*
Jun 11 17:59:37  you could give the same argument for including a GSM chip in the next NIT
Jun 11 17:59:41  Bleh iphone
Jun 11 17:59:43  "lose the competition for iPhone"
Jun 11 17:59:47  s/for/with
Jun 11 18:00:10  or multitouch
Jun 11 18:00:14 * mgedmin would love multitouch
Jun 11 18:00:16  mgedmin, not upgrading the platform in 2 years is a bit different to not adding GSM or multitouch.
Jun 11 18:00:25  mhm, maybe
Jun 11 18:00:37  but wait
Jun 11 18:00:50  the point of upgrading the platform is that you get something out of it
Jun 11 18:00:56  (unless you're a geek)
Jun 11 18:01:11  what would nokia get from omap3?
Jun 11 18:01:20  Are you paying ANY attention?
Jun 11 18:01:21  lower cost? faster hardware? 3d?
Jun 11 18:01:33  a "desktop-like browsing experience" and decent video playback
Jun 11 18:01:35  Way faster CPU, 3d, hardware video acceleration
Jun 11 18:01:35 * mgedmin is paying some
Jun 11 18:01:36  A higher number to put on the spec sheet
Jun 11 18:01:42  ^ and that
Jun 11 18:01:49  so, there are pluses
Jun 11 18:01:50  they could *really* start talking about the video playback
Jun 11 18:01:53  what are the minuses?
Jun 11 18:02:03  cost? power usage?
Jun 11 18:02:10  Power usage should be the same
Jun 11 18:02:11 * mgedmin wants to hear that OMAP3 is more power-efficient
Jun 11 18:02:13  darn
Jun 11 18:02:14  It is
Jun 11 18:02:26  more power-efficient per cycle
Jun 11 18:02:30  I'd take better performance for the same battery life
Jun 11 18:02:39  That's what you'll get.
Jun 11 18:02:55  iff nokia decides that makes sense from their business perspective
Jun 11 18:03:00  It has the same consumption as the ARM11 in the OMAP2 at 2-3x the performance.
Jun 11 18:03:26  mgedmin, we're in the same situation as we were with the OMAP1-to-OMAP2 upgrade.
Jun 11 18:03:42  Except this is even more significant than that.
Jun 11 18:03:42  oh? was the 770 OMAP1?
Jun 11 18:03:45 * mgedmin doesn't remember
Jun 11 18:03:47  lol
Jun 11 18:03:48  Yes
Jun 11 18:03:49  GeneralAntilles, wasn't the omap2 out in production devices significantly before the n800?
Jun 11 18:03:54  Your premise is broken, mgedmin. ;)
Jun 11 18:04:06  johnx, 6-8 months ish
Jun 11 18:04:30 * GeneralAntilles wants a source on that.
Jun 11 18:04:52  I read something today that OMAP3 is expected to show up in handsets at the end of 2008. So who knows.
Jun 11 18:05:20  The "tube" or whatever it is is supposed to be coming out soon, right?
Jun 11 18:05:20  nokia normally announces new tablets in january, doesn't it?
Jun 11 18:05:28  mgedmin, no
Jun 11 18:05:35  770 was announced in May
Jun 11 18:05:40  shipped in November-ish
Jun 11 18:05:50  N800 was announced and shipped in January
Jun 11 18:05:59  N810 was announced in August (?) shipped in November
Jun 11 18:06:07  shipping seems to happen towards the end of year though
Jun 11 18:06:16  N810W was announced forever ago as the N800W and ships (probably) next month.
Jun 11 18:06:31  They're on a yearly-ish schedule
Jun 11 18:06:38  wimax news is disturbingly quiet though...
Jun 11 18:07:20  Eh, who really cares about the WiMAX tablet
Jun 11 18:07:26  It'll work in, what, 3 cities? :P
Jun 11 18:07:39 <||cw> people in those cities
Jun 11 18:07:41  well, right, people w/ wimax coverage :)
Jun 11 18:07:58  one of those is a city I care about / might live in
Jun 11 18:08:04 * summatusmentis does not care
Jun 11 18:08:14  rm_you probably cares too, if he isn't too terrified of clearwire :D
Jun 11 18:08:24  hi hrw|gone
Jun 11 18:08:27  It's Xohm
Jun 11 18:08:53  GeneralAntilles, and a big part of the network coverage is by clearwire
Jun 11 18:09:11  Is it?
Jun 11 18:09:25  uhm...they're like 50% of xohm I believe
Jun 11 18:09:41  I see
Jun 11 18:09:49  they already have pre-wimax (or is it fixed wimax?) rolled out in WA
Jun 11 18:10:05  and have already spent time developing kind of a lukewarm reputation :P
Jun 11 18:10:18  any have osso-applet-datetime package?
Jun 11 18:11:01  What other n810 apps should i try out?
Jun 11 18:11:43  You make it through the list we gave you yesterday?
Jun 11 18:12:15  gadgetoid, vagalume (last.fm streaming), xournal or maemopad+, canola, xchat, fbreader, garnetvm
Jun 11 18:12:35  Ooo xchat!
Jun 11 18:12:57  So much to try and so little time
Jun 11 18:13:23  gadgetoid, downloads.maemo.org
Jun 11 18:13:57  I have added about 40 package sources to app mgr
Jun 11 18:14:03  ugh
Jun 11 18:14:15  not so wise idea :)
Jun 11 18:14:31  Yeah... I realised that
Jun 11 18:14:44  luckily they can be easily disabled
Jun 11 18:15:04  GAN800, "While Sprint will own a majority of the new Clearwire, Clearwire will have operational control over the company to alleviate any fears of conflict of interest with Sprint."
Jun 11 18:15:21  Works okay for me at the moment, doesnt much like updating though
Jun 11 18:15:23  maemopad+ sucks
Jun 11 18:15:59  and don't forget to see lcuk's upcoming reader/note taking app
Jun 11 18:16:09  there should be a vid on youtube
Jun 11 18:16:32  KotCzarny: any idea what it's called?
Jun 11 18:16:47  flors.wordpress.com
Jun 11 18:16:54  The n800 is a book reading dream
Jun 11 18:17:13  a book is a book reading dream
Jun 11 18:17:23  >__>
Jun 11 18:17:40  Pffffff low tech paper nonsense... It isnt even baclit
Jun 11 18:17:45  :-)
Jun 11 18:17:50  gadgetoid, I've been through close to a hundred between my 3 tablets.
Jun 11 18:18:01  pekuj
Jun 11 18:18:02  summa: liqreader, or liqbase
Jun 11 18:18:32  pekuja, after you've handled as many paperbacks as I have you don't want a thing to do with them. ;)
Jun 11 18:18:35  but goodle for 'lcuk rolls the scrolls'
Jun 11 18:18:46  I have stacks of pdfs to read
Jun 11 18:19:02  GAN800, hehe, I can believe that
Jun 11 18:19:21  GAN800, what kind of problems specifically though?
Jun 11 18:19:34  GAN800, falling apart?
Jun 11 18:19:46  getting wet? (that would of course ruin a N800 too)
Jun 11 18:20:01  Apple keyboard works a treat with the n810.... The onboard keyboard is too cramped on the top row
Jun 11 18:20:08  Problems? I used to work in a bookstore
Jun 11 18:20:49  oh, I see
Jun 11 18:21:00  Touched more than my fair share of books. ;)
Jun 11 18:21:32  I thought you meant that you've read a lot of paperbacks and you've had more than your share of problems with them, or something like that
Jun 11 18:21:48  I mean most people don't work in bookstores, so it's probably not a problem for everyone
Jun 11 18:22:15  paperbacks suck quality wise, anyway
Jun 11 18:22:24  Disposable books.
Jun 11 18:22:53  actually clearwire's coverage map looks pretty good...if they can actually translate that into working mobile wimax coverage...
Jun 11 18:24:30  KotCzarny, GAN800: pardon the language, but lcuk;s thing is absolutely bitchin'
Jun 11 18:24:46  yes, it is
Jun 11 18:24:46  lcuk: mad props
Jun 11 18:24:53  and more to come
Jun 11 18:24:58  if that's not enough
Jun 11 18:25:07  the indt guys need to pick him up and let him telecommute :)
Jun 11 18:25:09  Wish he would quit being a stinker and release something already. :\
Jun 11 18:25:30  can't rush the perfection
Jun 11 18:25:53  GeneralAntilles, I can actually really understand his position
Jun 11 18:26:06  once you release you immediately get pulled down into support
Jun 11 18:27:20  Then don't support it. ;)
Jun 11 18:27:25  Or recruit somebody else to do it.
Jun 11 18:27:25  sure
Jun 11 18:27:30  i will remember your words
Jun 11 18:27:31  :>
Jun 11 18:27:32  GeneralAntilles, he's too nice
Jun 11 18:27:38  'no support for ga'
Jun 11 18:27:51  'or just let others handle it for him'
Jun 11 18:27:53 * KotCzarny grins
Jun 11 18:28:01  even I sometimes feel compelled to answer questions about debian :)
Jun 11 18:28:23  and I'm a horrible elitist technocrat :)
Jun 11 18:28:27  johnx: that's like, every day :)
Jun 11 18:28:42  yeah, but I don't always answer
Jun 11 18:28:58  especially not on itt
Jun 11 18:30:27  Support should be handled by the community
Jun 11 18:30:36  that's a nice dream
Jun 11 18:30:39  When there is one, that is
Jun 11 18:30:56  Community builds basic support thanks to information/docs provided by coding team
Jun 11 18:31:00  sometimes the person who did something is the only one who's really technically qualified to support it
Jun 11 18:31:02  (forums, all that)
Jun 11 18:31:14  the answer is more documentation by the creator, but that's another burden altogether
Jun 11 18:31:17  if the app is perfect, there's no support required
Jun 11 18:31:18  :)
Jun 11 18:31:24  there will always be support
Jun 11 18:31:26  needed
Jun 11 18:31:29  Sounds like most of my programming
Jun 11 18:31:35  KotCzarny, good app + bad users = flaming hole in the ground
Jun 11 18:31:41  johnx, I tend to comment all my code, extensively
Jun 11 18:31:42  and no one will know exactly how it happened
Jun 11 18:31:55  crashanddie, and most of the people on itt will never read it
Jun 11 18:31:56  Canola suffers from a bit of that.
Jun 11 18:32:03  johnx, but I haven't always, I'll admit
Jun 11 18:32:18  johnx, they're not supposed to
Jun 11 18:32:34  johnx, my doc, and I think, any coder's doc, is going to be extremely technical
Jun 11 18:32:51  What you need, is having people who will translate that technical information into end-user edible stuff
Jun 11 18:32:57  End that's not the coder's job
Jun 11 18:33:00  and**
Jun 11 18:33:03  and those are the kind of people we don't have at itt
Jun 11 18:33:10  Of course we do
Jun 11 18:33:15  you just don't give 'em a chance
Jun 11 18:33:24  and if we really don't
Jun 11 18:33:57  then it's probably because the big problem with NITs, is that its software is too focused on NITs
Jun 11 18:34:05  hmm?
Jun 11 18:34:08  and there are always users that try to use app in a way it wasn't intended to
Jun 11 18:34:09  :)
Jun 11 18:34:32  and fumble at that
Jun 11 18:34:36  probably, because the UI is so tied in, or because it uses hardware specific features as program features, instead of options/plugins
Jun 11 18:34:36  also, we have some power users like that of course, but they're not interested in / able to help with all projects
Jun 11 18:35:15  also, the ratio of "normal users" to "power users" and "devs" is a little top heavy
Jun 11 18:35:49  I understand that creating NIT-minded applications is quite adorable, but programmers should not forget that creating something that is immensely tied into on architecture is the best feature to kill it off, right from the start
Jun 11 18:36:16  what app are you thinking of here?
Jun 11 18:36:22  any, really
Jun 11 18:36:51  ok, but give me a clear example...there are plenty I can think of that are pretty cross platform
Jun 11 18:37:01  will the GPS continue searching for satellites when the N810 goes to standby mode (screen turns black)?
Jun 11 18:37:07 <||cw> in general, internet explorer
Jun 11 18:37:10  pekuja, yes
Jun 11 18:37:10  as long you don't use platform only libs or hardcoded numbers..
Jun 11 18:37:25  johnx: I agree with crashanddie about there being these technically literate users around
Jun 11 18:37:30  crashanddie, great, thanks
Jun 11 18:37:32  where I can found osso-software-version and osso-applet-datetime packages?
Jun 11 18:37:41  which is how I started life
Jun 11 18:38:01  err, the fact that most programs are fully hildonized, and that they should include compile options to include those features, or not
Jun 11 18:38:13  instead of making someone going through the code to make it "clean"
Jun 11 18:38:37  i know this is not the right place to ask this, but does anyone here have any websites for sale?
Jun 11 18:38:52  synrev.com
Jun 11 18:38:58  Ffffffffor sale!?
Jun 11 18:39:21  Rhoruns, that one is $1,000+ though
Jun 11 18:39:22  why would i buy this?
Jun 11 18:39:28  site for reviews for a syn packets?
Jun 11 18:39:34  lardman, but we don't have enough of you around to provide support for all projects :)
Jun 11 18:39:37  Rhoruns, dude, you asked
Jun 11 18:39:52  yes, and im asking what is so great about it?
Jun 11 18:39:58  i might want to buy it
Jun 11 18:40:04  short name
Jun 11 18:40:05  :)
Jun 11 18:40:12  Rhoruns, everything is on the website, read
Jun 11 18:40:20  In that case I have a website that sells snake oil
Jun 11 18:40:37  johnx: I'm not that any more though, I've slipped into being a developer who can't really be bothered with users any more
Jun 11 18:40:44  johnx: it happens I'm afraid
Jun 11 18:40:49  It's in very high demand these days
Jun 11 18:40:54  lardman, oh definitely
Jun 11 18:40:58  same for me
Jun 11 18:41:06  everyone only has so much free time
Jun 11 18:41:10  I paid my dues on oesf & zaurus.com ;)
Jun 11 18:41:21 * KotCzarny has a little more, but i'm lazy
Jun 11 18:41:23  usually
Jun 11 18:41:24  :)
Jun 11 18:41:39  I wish I had the tme to do some more leisure programming
Jun 11 18:42:03  johnx, the problem you get with these communities are what I like to call "shooting stars". Guys who get immensely active for a while, and who really are awesome at what they do... But they only stay for a couple of months, and then, poof, gone
Jun 11 18:42:04  and the zaurus community seemed a lot more technically minded (thought that might just be the rose colored glasses to help my hindsight)
Jun 11 18:42:33  crashanddie: as long they leave power apps, what's the problem?
Jun 11 18:42:44  :)
Jun 11 18:42:46  KotCzarny, power apps, anyone can code those, really
Jun 11 18:42:55  KotCzarny, power apps never built a community
Jun 11 18:43:22  no?
Jun 11 18:43:31  if the domain had a history, i would buy it. :P
Jun 11 18:43:34  sorry
Jun 11 18:43:35  KotCzarny, power apps are like american muscle cars in a small town in italy, they make lots of noise, are incoherent, and made of plastic.
Jun 11 18:43:38  anyone else?
Jun 11 18:43:47  Rhoruns, get on ebay ffs ?
Jun 11 18:43:56  ebay fails.
Jun 11 18:43:59  crashanddie: and what if they aren't? if they are solid ?
Jun 11 18:44:13  all of the sellers on their are delusional.
Jun 11 18:44:15  dependable,stable and even! useful?
Jun 11 18:44:16  :)
Jun 11 18:44:23  they think i work for google when i ask about their site.
Jun 11 18:44:28  Rhoruns, like you said, this really isn't the place, asking once is enough, spamming about it is not going to help, really
Jun 11 18:44:35  ok, sorry.
Jun 11 18:44:37  Rhoruns, no websites, but I got a bridge in brooklyn
Jun 11 18:44:41  rhoruns: then just hunt some dns register and make your own
Jun 11 18:44:41  nice..
Jun 11 18:44:48  and stop being offtopic
Jun 11 18:44:49  :)
Jun 11 18:45:11  I have a house in southern france... Which is sold, but if you offer a better price, I'll change the name on the contract :P
Jun 11 18:45:19  Anyone fancy writing n800 software mini-reviews for gadgetoid?
Jun 11 18:45:36 * KotCzarny is a hacker, not doc wrtiter :>
Jun 11 18:45:39  I heard gadgetoid likes doing that kind of stuff
Jun 11 18:46:29  I'd like to get some good n8x0 coverage up, it's a solid device
Jun 11 18:47:07  I would never have bought an htc kaiser if i knew about it earlier
Jun 11 18:47:30  The N8x0 is an awesome device for students really
Jun 11 18:47:35  wait for n900 then
Jun 11 18:48:00  lol... n900... Why not wait till the next french female black president ?
Jun 11 18:48:12  uh?
Jun 11 18:48:26  when is the n900 due ?
Jun 11 18:48:37  What, we've never getting another tablet?
Jun 11 18:48:54  Winter/Spring
Jun 11 18:48:55  Waiting for the next best gadget is, in my experience, a near endless wait
Jun 11 18:49:04  GAN800, well, the next french president might very well be a black female :P
Jun 11 18:49:10  Just rely on good old ebay
Jun 11 18:49:34  we're due for some spyshots in the next 2-3 months if tradition is followed. ;)
Jun 11 18:50:00 * GAN800 doesn't pay attention to french politics.
Jun 11 18:50:15  I wont get one for review until the real magazines are done with em
Jun 11 18:50:28  gadgetoid, lol...
Jun 11 18:51:02  And yet korg loan me two grand synthesizers for months... Go figure
Jun 11 18:51:19  Damn competitive consumer electronics market
Jun 11 18:51:47  gadgetoid, mobile computing needs exposure, audio devices need quality
Jun 11 18:51:59  [and yes, that is a totally unfunded compliment]
Jun 11 18:52:13  It makes some sort of sense
Jun 11 18:52:29  Coming from a technical/computing background I find hardware synthesizers very baffling
Jun 11 18:53:43  Particularly the filesystems and UIs of the ruddy things, categorically awful
Jun 11 18:57:07  Software not obtain from nokia could seriously harm your health
Jun 11 18:57:21  Time to try openssh
Jun 11 18:57:43  software obrained from nokia can do that too
Jun 11 18:57:47  see 'nokia pc suite'
Jun 11 18:58:02  Hahaha
Jun 11 18:58:53  gadgetoid, there's a running joke that they accidentally applied the warning to the wrong category of software. ;)
Jun 11 18:59:49  It's usually mobile network operators that make bunk software and install it on all of their handsets
Jun 11 19:02:49  gadgetoid: we know absolutely nothing about n900, correct?
Jun 11 19:03:17  baraka obama ... lol!!! MK2
Jun 11 19:03:24  oh ffs, s/gadgetoid/GAN800/
Jun 11 19:03:51  I'm only on pg. 17 of the ITT thread
Jun 11 19:04:01  more or less. That's pretty much how it works with the tablet releases
Jun 11 19:04:35  Think of it like Apple hardware. ;)
Jun 11 19:05:13  I was just curious... I've been following the OpenMoko stuff, and they all know, roughly, what the next 2 devices will have
Jun 11 19:05:23  or at least what's being considered :)
Jun 11 19:05:39  Is there any "good" ways to turn your n810 into standby? I cannot find a standby function. I can lock the screen, turn on radio silence, but no standby..
Jun 11 19:05:56  The only way is to turn it off, but then it takes 30 sec to startup again
Jun 11 19:06:30  xeor, that is pretty much standby
Jun 11 19:06:32  it's in standby when you lock the screen
Jun 11 19:06:48  assuming you don't run any stupid programs
Jun 11 19:06:53  johnx, "turn off" is the nearest standby?
Jun 11 19:07:13  KotCzarny, but it uses hell of a lot battery to be in standby, if thats standby
Jun 11 19:07:14  no, lock screen is the nearest standby
Jun 11 19:07:16  nope
Jun 11 19:07:23  hmm, ok..
Jun 11 19:07:25  mine goes ~10days in that state
Jun 11 19:07:32  xeor, it will "standby" with wifi off for 10 days or more
Jun 11 19:07:34  whoo
Jun 11 19:07:36  xeor, it's arm, it pretty much uses no power at idle.
Jun 11 19:07:36  Thats good
Jun 11 19:07:49  good
Jun 11 19:07:56  KotCzarny: you mean to tell me that you have your n8x0 in your pocket, unused, for 10 days?
Jun 11 19:08:12  summa, i was doing battery rundown tests
Jun 11 19:08:18  But the background apps.. Doesn't they use a lot of battery? Example the weather thingy
Jun 11 19:08:25  is turning off wifi the same thing as disconnecting?
Jun 11 19:08:28  KotCzarny: oh, ok
Jun 11 19:08:34  very helpful battery rundown tests, BTW, if I didn't already thank your for that, KotCzarny
Jun 11 19:08:56  KotCzarny: also, in most clients, you can type 'summa' and it'll complete the nick for you
Jun 11 19:08:56  xeor, they *shouldn't*
Jun 11 19:09:08  johnx, ok.. good.. :)
Jun 11 19:09:09  summatusmentis, not quite, since it might still search for wifi depending on your settings
Jun 11 19:09:21  xeor, of course, nothing is perfect
Jun 11 19:09:28  xeor: that depends on app
Jun 11 19:09:35  johnx: ok, is there any easy way to 'turn off' wifi? or is that all settings?
Jun 11 19:09:38  if you notice your standby time is very low the first thing to look at is what apps you're running
Jun 11 19:09:38  as i said some apps are nice, some are just offending
Jun 11 19:09:38  I think it was my cpu meter that used about 15% cpu all the time
Jun 11 19:09:47  summatusmentis, power button -> offline mode
Jun 11 19:10:05  xeor, ironic, no?
Jun 11 19:10:10  hehe :)
Jun 11 19:10:17  johnx: oh cool! I didn't know that was there :)
Jun 11 19:10:29  The whole n810 just hang after a while..
Jun 11 19:10:58  summatusmentis, also, it searches for wifi when you switch back to normal mode, so for me it's quite seemless when traveling
Jun 11 19:11:11  *seamless
Jun 11 19:12:12  johnx: that's awesome. now, granted, it's one more step for putting it in my pocket, but hey
Jun 11 19:12:28  power -> d-pad down -> d-pad center
Jun 11 19:12:41  wait, is this an n810?
Jun 11 19:12:48  yeah
Jun 11 19:12:58  ah, I have no clue then :)
Jun 11 19:13:25  power -> d-pad down -> d-pad center -> hardware screen lock slider
Jun 11 19:14:16  s/d-pad center/ d-pad center -> d-pad center/
Jun 11 19:14:17  summatusmentis meant: power -> d-pad down ->  d-pad center -> d-pad center -> hardware screen lock slider
Jun 11 19:23:32  KotCzarny, did you get a chance last night to see the image blitting?
Jun 11 19:24:01  (good morning btw)
Jun 11 19:30:51 * summatusmentis applauds lcuk 
Jun 11 19:31:05  liqbase looks awesome
Jun 11 19:31:07  :D lol
Jun 11 19:31:34  for real, I'm excited
Jun 11 19:31:40  it feels awesome as well.  just how ive always wanted to handle a touchscreen :)
Jun 11 19:32:00  was that code I saw you scrolling through?
Jun 11 19:32:42  yes, that was the code to the editor window scrolling in the editor window
Jun 11 19:32:58  arbitary file - as i was editing it with pygtkeditor i was thinking how i wanted it
Jun 11 19:33:41  the scroll handling has improved even since the video as well :)
Jun 11 19:33:51  how can that improve
Jun 11 19:34:47  well when i was scrolling around the graffiti wall it occasionally slipped and didnt know id started a new stroke, but thats cured now
Jun 11 19:34:50  it used to join 2 strokes together
Jun 11 19:35:56  anyway, i have a small list of things that need pulling together (nothing technically challenging anymore - ive done the hardish work for this stage) and then people can start breaking it
Jun 11 19:36:47  mad props, that's all
Jun 11 19:36:51 * lcuk has put the next speedup on hold for now
Jun 11 19:37:15  Speeeeeed!
Jun 11 19:37:50  :) summatusmentis i had to do something to re-learn c again and ive got plenty of code which needed fast updates.  scratching my own itch so to speak
Jun 11 19:38:50  fair enough. :) I'm writing kernel code for SoC to re-learn c :-P
Jun 11 19:40:01  heh, where is your c experience from before?
Jun 11 19:40:05  hi x
Jun 11 19:40:24  I taught myself when I was younger
Jun 11 19:40:48  so I'm really writing kernel code to re-learn intro c, and learn 'smart people' c
Jun 11 19:40:52  younger? pc systems or earlier?
Jun 11 19:41:07  umm... 10th grade
Jun 11 19:41:14  Hmm pidgin isnt a great irc client... Works though
Jun 11 19:41:21  irssi > *
Jun 11 19:41:41  xchat on 8x0 is nice
Jun 11 19:42:06  lies
Jun 11 19:42:09  >_>
Jun 11 19:42:17  Yeah trying to find it heh
Jun 11 19:43:02  http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/
Jun 11 19:43:32  its not a bad client
Jun 11 19:45:09  Woohoo thanks
Jun 11 19:46:59  whey - sbc output
Jun 11 19:47:09  but not very good, broken up
Jun 11 19:47:14  sorry lardman? can't hear you
Jun 11 19:47:27  how easy is it to port an application to be hildonized?
Jun 11 19:47:40  easy
Jun 11 19:47:47  few lines of the code
Jun 11 19:48:00  yes only need to already be gtk ?
Jun 11 19:48:07  :D lardman im glad its working though, i saw earlier you said it was your headset that stopped you
Jun 11 19:48:09  aha
Jun 11 19:48:14  for gtk you will have to add program container too
Jun 11 19:48:20  hildon program :)
Jun 11 19:48:22  xchat much better
Jun 11 19:48:52  lcuk: user error, seems that's a normal issue
Jun 11 19:49:05  by i managed Xt app to show in task nav too
Jun 11 19:50:15  heh lardman :D sounds like me cursing my machine for software not working before realising that i had cleaned the build down ;)
Jun 11 19:50:28  still no full screen but nice tiny text
Jun 11 19:51:16  Gadgetoid, you mean xchat isnt fullscreen?
Jun 11 19:51:23  lcuk: slightly embarassing really
Jun 11 19:51:24  try pressing the hardware button ;)
Jun 11 19:51:34  probably need more wine
Jun 11 19:51:56  agreed, speaking of which ive got an alcopop geting warm downstairs
Jun 11 19:52:00  oh that's what that button does
Jun 11 19:52:15  KotCzarny: I'm just wondering about thunderbird
Jun 11 19:52:23  huh?
Jun 11 19:52:27 * Gadgetoid did not rtfm
Jun 11 20:00:04  KotCzarny: regarding hildonizing apps
Jun 11 20:08:05  and also biggest, currently
Jun 11 20:08:06  yeah, but it takes a lot more to carry 3 SD cards around than it does 3 microsd's
Jun 11 20:08:07  yeah, but it takes more to carry 2 minisd cards than 1 sd
Jun 11 20:08:07  not by much
Jun 11 20:08:07  but.
Jun 11 20:08:12  doh no airodump port
Jun 11 20:08:22  if you have one big sd card you don't need to carry anything else
Jun 11 20:08:26  or to swap them
Jun 11 20:08:36  I feel like SD cards, while higher capacity, and more prevalent right now, are 'too big' :)
Jun 11 20:09:31  full sized sd doesn't work in my phone.. which is a pain
Jun 11 20:09:43  micro sd is just too small
Jun 11 20:10:09  size doesn't matter
Jun 11 20:10:19  i just don't want to carry them in my pocket
Jun 11 20:10:21  mini sd is already dead though
Jun 11 20:10:26  when i can have them in my device
Jun 11 20:10:52  and a lot of hackery things is made easier by having two card slots
Jun 11 20:11:10  such as root on sd while still keeping a spare "media" card
Jun 11 20:11:15  or loading pics from a camera
Jun 11 20:11:16  etc
Jun 11 20:11:38  like the good ol tapwave zodiac eh eh!
Jun 11 20:12:13  Yus, and more soon
Jun 11 20:12:31  mini sd is, micro sd isn't necessarily
Jun 11 20:12:38  Within a week or two will have SDHC driver for Zodiac (and others)
Jun 11 20:13:22  a driver for palm os?
Jun 11 20:13:29  Yes
Jun 11 20:13:38  I did like the full SD slot in my Z, but if the micro sd slots make it easier for other gadgetry internally, I'd prefer them
Jun 11 20:13:46  http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1049232
Jun 11 20:13:51  I thought there were some issues that kept palm os from addressing more than 1GB or somesuch...
Jun 11 20:13:53 * johnx reads
Jun 11 20:14:00  i sold one of my zods, havent touched the other in ages
Jun 11 20:14:21  so much for shiny palm goodness
Jun 11 20:14:30  I have three, one working, one with broken backlight
Jun 11 20:14:44  and my sharp wizard is now a baby toy
Jun 11 20:15:31  even my 1 year old cant keep her mitts off gadgets
Jun 11 20:15:53  Also have Treo 650, Treo 300, Handera 330, Cassiopeia A-10, HP 320LX, and MessagePad 2100
Jun 11 20:16:18  Is like am SPCG member
Jun 11 20:17:44  shinyness
Jun 11 20:18:29  glad i have gadgetoid to help keep me abreast of my addiction
Jun 11 20:20:58  I buys crap on craigslist
Jun 11 20:22:02  I want to dig up an ibm z50 or psion 5mx or netbook to play with :D
Jun 11 20:24:21  I want plucker on my nokia
Jun 11 20:24:22  ugh the psion5mx is the greatest gadget i never owned
Jun 11 20:24:29  fbreader is blows
Jun 11 20:24:49  my other half almost  bought one  years ago
Jun 11 20:25:06  I wonder what kind of RAM the z50 takes
Jun 11 20:25:10  I just found one...
Jun 11 20:25:12  those things look ginormous
Jun 11 20:25:19  hi
Jun 11 20:25:46  http://lasisa.seesaa.net/image/DSC_0005.JPG
Jun 11 20:25:48  I have three
Jun 11 20:26:08  three psions?
Jun 11 20:26:14  working?
Jun 11 20:26:27  hi, Gnuton
Jun 11 20:26:50  hey johnx
Jun 11 20:26:55  yeah, huge. I'll stick to my Z and n810
Jun 11 20:26:57  From picture
Jun 11 20:27:04  s/Z/Zs/
Jun 11 20:27:05  summatusmentis meant: yeah, huge. I'll stick to my Zs and n810
Jun 11 20:27:06  Newton, Palm V, Treo 650
Jun 11 20:27:39  Palm V gave away
Jun 11 20:27:48  Dekaritae, you saw garnetVM for the n8x0, right?
Jun 11 20:27:58  Yes. Not terrible useful
Jun 11 20:28:11  it can scale to full screen now at least
Jun 11 20:28:18  No screen rotation and no use of high res
Jun 11 20:28:35  "no screen rotation" hmm?
Jun 11 20:28:43  PalmOS garnet can handle 640x480 screen resolution native so why not use
Jun 11 20:28:43  you mean, can't display landscape modes?
Jun 11 20:28:54  ah, I didn't know that
Jun 11 20:29:16  Alphasmart Dana uses 640x160 resolution
Jun 11 20:29:43  http://www.pencomputing.com/palm/Pen47/danahands.jpg
Jun 11 20:30:21  wow
Jun 11 20:30:23  just wow
Jun 11 20:30:31  do most apps cope with that ok?
Jun 11 20:30:35  heh..
Jun 11 20:30:43  small sfcreen
Jun 11 20:30:46  Apps that don't run square
Jun 11 20:30:47  http://www.pencomputing.com/palm/Pen47/dana.jpg
Jun 11 20:31:06  heh
Jun 11 20:31:21  that's probably why they didn't bother in garnet vm
Jun 11 20:31:25  Would kill for version OS5 hires
Jun 11 20:31:30  Really. Have crossbow
Jun 11 20:31:33  relative to device size, of course
Jun 11 20:33:47  hmm...looks like psions don't have much support in 2.6 :/
Jun 11 20:34:05  bbiam, keyboard playing silly buggers again
Jun 11 20:34:17  can I ask why anyone would want a psion anymore?
Jun 11 20:34:24  for fun
Jun 11 20:34:31  to play around and hack on
Jun 11 20:34:40  maybe for ssh/irc/reading
Jun 11 20:34:45  EeeOS has nice UI for 800x480 screen, and boot image < 400 MB
Jun 11 20:34:47  mpd client
Jun 11 20:34:51  Also is Debian
Jun 11 20:35:14  http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg171/sg24hrs/EeePLinux-Shutdown.jpg
Jun 11 20:35:59  psion is awesome
Jun 11 20:36:05  Dekaritae, hmm?
Jun 11 20:36:25  looks nice though
Jun 11 20:36:31  Ponderings
Jun 11 20:37:05  most of the custom stuff should make for a straight recompile for the n800
Jun 11 20:37:19  Why on nokias is there no way to open the apps menu with hardware key
Jun 11 20:37:31  it's the menu button
Jun 11 20:37:40  it has a picture of a menu
Jun 11 20:37:40  No
Jun 11 20:37:44  hmm?
Jun 11 20:37:58  not the 'start' menu
Jun 11 20:38:09  ah, right
Jun 11 20:38:17  apps menu not app's menu :)
Jun 11 20:38:19  I read that wrong
Jun 11 20:38:26  lol
Jun 11 20:38:35  I just thumb it anyways
Jun 11 20:39:03  This is grand UI flaw
Jun 11 20:39:09  I thumb it too
Jun 11 20:39:30  Dekaritae: no it's not, it's really nice... just use your thumbs
Jun 11 20:39:47 * lcuk fingers it
Jun 11 20:39:51  hawt
Jun 11 20:40:06  I can navigate menu with pad. And launch app from menu with pad. But not open menu
Jun 11 20:40:11  its on the wrong side for thumb use
Jun 11 20:40:22  You have thumb on wrong side
Jun 11 20:40:23  the icon is like 10mm away from the d-pad...
Jun 11 20:40:38  well im left handed
Jun 11 20:40:48  I am usually hold nokia with right hand
Jun 11 20:41:00  I hold it with both hands
Jun 11 20:41:09  then surely its a finger job than thumb
Jun 11 20:41:09  effik awkward to launch
Jun 11 20:41:26  so you can reach the d-pad but not 1cm over to the icon?
Jun 11 20:41:27  I would've loved to hold my Zaurus w/ both hands, but the stupid wifi card kept jabbing my palm
Jun 11 20:42:24  I cannot thumb. The icons are too small
Jun 11 20:42:51  your thumbs must be huge
Jun 11 20:43:08  Only small much
Jun 11 20:43:39  Stupid Canola
Jun 11 20:43:54  thumb app menu icon, then use d-pad
Jun 11 20:44:15  and yes, a couple more hardware buttons would be great
Jun 11 20:44:16  not intuitive enough
Jun 11 20:44:20  just get better menu system ;)
Jun 11 20:44:50  big fat buttons visible from orbit for those that want an easy ride
Jun 11 20:44:53  heh...getting bigger plans lcuk?
Jun 11 20:45:10  the only hardware buttons I use are d-pad, lock slider, and power
Jun 11 20:45:24  I wish there was a scroll hardware button though
Jun 11 20:45:25  you've seen the vid, the thing that just gets bypassed is how quickly i navigated different areas of the system ;)
Jun 11 20:45:26  I use back arrow all the time
Jun 11 20:46:25  see, when I'm using my n810, I've got the keyboard out, and forget about the two hardware buttons on the faceplate
Jun 11 20:47:21  i hate havign it open and having to reach around to press fullscreen or scroll - its like old pcs where you had to scurry round the back to find a usb slot
Jun 11 20:47:39  *cough*n800*cough*
Jun 11 20:47:44  haha
Jun 11 20:47:46  sorry, coming down with a cold I guess
Jun 11 20:47:54  :D
Jun 11 20:48:20  the n810 isnt much of an upgrade
Jun 11 20:48:53  mushy nasty horrible keyboard added....woohoo
Jun 11 20:49:00  sideways step to give the punters who want sliughtly different feature set what they want.  aint that what nokia does with all its devices?
Jun 11 20:49:08  I didn't even consider nxxx before keyboard
Jun 11 20:49:16  i think it's ok
Jun 11 20:49:30  Gadgetoid, it was the keyboard which made me get this - i didnt contemplate an 800 because i cant type and work at the same time
Jun 11 20:49:43  oooh wiza, scary
Jun 11 20:50:22  and i have a bluetooth keyboard for 810 but when im not at home the keyboard is essential
Jun 11 20:50:40  its okay to type on when lying the device flat
Jun 11 20:51:05  but with thumbs argh
Jun 11 20:51:08  i type on my knee with it whilst im out havin a cig at work
Jun 11 20:51:23  honestly, I *need* a thumboard
Jun 11 20:51:27  I travel alot on my motorbike so basically it's mostly for checking email, im, some web, navigation
Jun 11 20:51:41  I can leave my laptop at home for short trips
Jun 11 20:51:44  but i will be stuck with the 800 if i buy one anyway
Jun 11 20:52:12  maybe i  am having bad keyboarding experiences to justify that
Jun 11 20:52:26  Gadgetoid, i heartily recommend a decent bt keyboard :) the OSK is really good on this device, but you miss so much action when its up
Jun 11 20:52:54  i have an apple one that works nicely
Jun 11 20:53:00  small thin?
Jun 11 20:53:06  or big dopey?
Jun 11 20:53:09  aye.. enough
Jun 11 20:53:22  not pocket sized of course
Jun 11 20:53:56  but i would not use the keyboard away from home anyway
Jun 11 20:53:57  http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=810cratelaptopmodetc6.jpg
Jun 11 20:54:11  already got one on my htc kaiser
Jun 11 20:55:06  lcuk: A laptop!
Jun 11 20:55:20  with 2 keyboards!   double productivity
Jun 11 20:55:32 * lcuk just realised that
Jun 11 20:55:57  high quality case made of natural wood
Jun 11 20:56:12  using irc with the apple keyboard is positively a pleasure
Jun 11 20:56:27  the stand in the n810 is excellent
Jun 11 20:56:41  :) indeed, i couldnt draw on the screen with it raised up, not the screen is flush to the surface and my wrist rests naturally like drawing on paper
Jun 11 20:57:25  I love apple keyboards
Jun 11 20:57:44  the apple keys feel massive
Jun 11 20:57:56  lcuk: the only thing I'm missing in that picture is a big fresnel lens in front of the screen :D
Jun 11 20:58:30  heh ph5 - would it be clear enough ;) ?
Jun 11 20:58:42 * lcuk has only seen blurry lense :(
Jun 11 20:58:44  s
Jun 11 20:59:01  yeah, especially magnifying rgb pixels
Jun 11 20:59:34  lcuk: unlikely, but that would be so brazil
Jun 11 21:00:27  well take the backing off the 810 and use the LCD itself with a projector bulb behind ;)
Jun 11 21:00:52  project it onto the surface of an old crt monitor ;)
Jun 11 21:03:47  madness
Jun 11 21:03:55  use lasers!
Jun 11 21:04:46  wont the sharks complain?
Jun 11 21:05:31  Damn those sharks! we shall steal their lasers and change the world forever
Jun 11 21:10:40  sharks are people too, you know!
Jun 11 21:11:44  what's the difference between architecture "arm" and architecture "armel"?
Jun 11 21:11:45  if any?
Jun 11 21:12:08  I've got a deb for architecture "arm" which won't install on my n810, because the n810 is "armel"
Jun 11 21:12:13  little endian
Jun 11 21:12:18  ah
Jun 11 21:12:56  Graaa
Jun 11 21:13:14  Canola is supporting avi format, but none of the avi format video show up
Jun 11 21:13:27  install mplayer
Jun 11 21:14:13  I have it
Jun 11 21:14:25  It does not make Canola work
Jun 11 21:15:19  canola uses mplayer for video (in an embedded mode) try the video in mplayer directly
Jun 11 21:15:26  Plays fine
Jun 11 21:15:36  Canola does not display video files in list
Jun 11 21:15:57  i thought it did
Jun 11 21:16:16  Displays folders which should have video
Jun 11 21:16:22  All are empty
Jun 11 21:17:39  It displays cover arts for one album of 300
Jun 11 21:17:43  WTF
Jun 11 21:17:52  All albums have folder.jpg
Jun 11 21:20:45  I have the tuning and I have the update cover arts
Jun 11 21:34:19  wierd, I get a couple of bars out output, then silence
Jun 11 21:34:32  but mplayer hasn't indicated a fault
Jun 11 21:43:33  anyone happen to know what signal 7 is?
Jun 11 21:44:02         SIGBUS      10,7,10     Core    Bus error (bad memory access)
Jun 11 21:44:11  thanks
Jun 11 21:44:46         SIGEMT       7,-,7      Term
Jun 11 21:44:51  and that's from another table
Jun 11 21:44:56  man 7 signal
Jun 11 21:47:23 * lardman can only hear ~1s of audio at a time
Jun 11 21:47:43  I think the dsp is decoding too slowly and mplayer is then just outputting no sound
Jun 11 21:47:59  resetting it every 1s isn't a good resolution i guess
Jun 11 21:47:59  :)
Jun 11 21:48:31  no, I have to pause, wait a few seconds until the pitch of the "white noise" changes, then I can listen to another 1s' worth
Jun 11 21:48:45  not ideal :)
Jun 11 21:49:07  :)
Jun 11 21:51:04  I see this from time to time:
Jun 11 21:51:06  alsa-play: write error: Broken pipe13.0% 78%
Jun 11 21:51:06  alsa-play: trying to reset soundcard
Jun 11 22:22:28  maemo.org/downloads down ?
Jun 11 22:45:15  In maemo mapper, can I download map based on a trip ?
Jun 11 22:52:33  crashanddie: yes I think so
Jun 11 22:52:49  you should be able to set it to download maps x miles on either side of a route
Jun 11 22:53:02  in manage maps perhaps?
Jun 11 22:53:09  I can't remember off the top of my head
Jun 11 22:53:14  yeah, I think I found it
Jun 11 22:53:20  cool
Jun 11 22:53:30  if you zoom to a given area, you have the option to download that whole area, and with a given resolution
Jun 11 22:53:55  maemo mapper just segfaulted on me :P
Jun 11 22:53:56  yes, again the zoom settings to download are set in one of those menus
Jun 11 22:53:59  nasty
Jun 11 22:55:11  crashanddie, apt nick :)
Jun 11 22:55:40  lcuk, heh
Jun 11 22:55:44  dayum
Jun 11 22:55:53  maemo mapper starts up with a helluva lots of errors
Jun 11 22:56:05  then crashes as soon as I try to access VE hybrid maps
Jun 11 22:56:09  lardman :) i can blit arbitary yv12 bitmaps now.  gotta tackle resizing ;)
Jun 11 22:56:15 * crashanddie deletes cache
Jun 11 22:56:27  writing to internal mmc on 810?
Jun 11 22:58:04  lcuk: sounds cool
Jun 11 22:58:51  yeah, found my problem
Jun 11 22:59:05  forgot to set the VE hybrid db to to internel mem card
Jun 11 22:59:10  root was filled quite fast :P
Jun 11 22:59:23  lardman, in the dsp thing of yours what display mode are you outputting the movie at.  is it yuv420 (the interleaved format)?
Jun 11 23:00:03  should be
Jun 11 23:00:12  but best talk to ssvb as he's made more progress on it
Jun 11 23:00:24  you guys having problems syncing audio/video ?
Jun 11 23:00:26  cool stuff :)
Jun 11 23:01:02  I'm having troubles processing data fast enough
Jun 11 23:01:02  one of my projects for this summer, is going to be a small app for maemo
Jun 11 23:01:14  that records sound/video from the n8x0
Jun 11 23:01:20  and sends it to youtube :-°
Jun 11 23:01:29  Now, I'm not a youtubist, to say the least
Jun 11 23:01:47  :P
Jun 11 23:02:06  How about just records sound/video and stores it locally >_>
Jun 11 23:02:16  skip the Youtube part
Jun 11 23:02:34  It's just, the camera I gave to my mom has this feature, and I refuse to believe my NIT is lesser equipped than a stupid $300 camera
Jun 11 23:03:12  crashanddie: believe it? :)
Jun 11 23:03:26  I believe it
Jun 11 23:03:32  the camera in the n8x0 is something like qvga
Jun 11 23:03:53  The camera you gave to your mother is a real camera :P
Jun 11 23:03:56  it's good enough for basic video conferencing on low bandwidth
Jun 11 23:04:08  but you wouldn't want to do much else w/ it
Jun 11 23:04:54 * lardman should go to bed
Jun 11 23:05:44  timelyx, yeah I know... That camera actually records in 640x480 or better resolution
Jun 11 23:06:05  think it's higher
Jun 11 23:06:19  something in the xxx x 700 or something
Jun 11 23:06:30  anyway, I know the NIT camera is crap
Jun 11 23:06:34  I'm talking about the software here
Jun 11 23:06:41  704x576
Jun 11 23:07:49  might just be it yeah
Jun 11 23:08:25  that's a really obscure resolution
Jun 11 23:09:03  isnt that PAL overscan? size
Jun 11 23:09:43  probably
Jun 11 23:10:44  *sigh* I wish the NIT had better wifi speeds
Jun 11 23:10:50  correct that
Jun 11 23:10:56  *sigh* I wish Wifi was faster
Jun 11 23:11:13  just use usb reader
Jun 11 23:11:25  and write your vids directly
Jun 11 23:12:07  heh
Jun 11 23:12:23  my whole area with all resolutions: 300gig
Jun 11 23:12:35  15mb/s > 0.5mb/s
Jun 11 23:13:07  crashanddie, did you send your gps tracker around the country?
Jun 11 23:13:27  no?
Jun 11 23:14:13  AP - Multiple congressional computers have been hacked by people working from inside China, lawmakers said Wednesday, suggesting the Chinese were seeking lists of dissidents.
Jun 11 23:14:15  lol
Jun 11 23:15:03  wait... US congressional computers?
Jun 11 23:15:08  yup
Jun 11 23:15:30  bleh, you americans suck at grammar
Jun 11 23:15:30  why would the chinese be seeking lists of dissidents in the uS?
Jun 11 23:15:39  it's "our congressional computers?", not "us .."
Jun 11 23:15:42  i'm just pasting a headline
Jun 11 23:15:52  [/sarcasm]
Jun 11 23:16:04  those are not mine
Jun 11 23:16:08  :)
Jun 11 23:20:52  night chaps
Jun 12 00:17:48  is ther source code for canola2 available... is it even an opensource project?
Jun 12 00:18:09  partially
Jun 12 00:18:56  for the first or second question
Jun 12 00:19:04  both
Jun 12 00:19:07  :)
Jun 12 00:19:17  who started it?
Jun 12 00:19:23  well that is partially discouraging
Jun 12 00:19:30  looks like an awesome app for my car pc
Jun 12 00:19:33  partially
Jun 12 00:19:40  yeah, it's still good app
Jun 12 00:20:00  yeah but if the source isnt available then its of no use to me really
Jun 12 00:21:06  what license is it under? where's it from?
Jun 12 00:21:40  from brazil
Jun 12 00:21:41  :)
Jun 12 00:21:46  web site says "components" are licensed as gpl
Jun 12 00:21:51  i guess it's all on their site
Jun 12 00:24:12  rmh3093: check out #canola, they'd know better
Jun 12 00:24:31  it looks like almost everything is open source though
Jun 12 00:24:32  during .br bussiness hours though
Jun 12 00:24:33  :)
Jun 12 00:25:10  summatusmentis, thanks, but i already saw the part that I care about on their web site.... "Canola is not opensource"
Jun 12 00:25:17  :(
Jun 12 00:54:20  gnite folks
Jun 12 00:54:25  nite nite
Jun 12 01:01:55  If anybody failed to notice: http://wiki.maemo.org/Questions_for_Nokia
Jun 12 01:07:12  hi, I'm trying to download something with Transmission on maemo, but the torrent keeps pausing for no apparent reason
Jun 12 01:09:11  Wifi powersave has been known to call issues.
Jun 12 01:09:17  Have wifi problems with your router?
Jun 12 01:16:56  it disconnects sometimes but I thought that was because I am a bit far away of the AP
Jun 12 01:17:09  That could factor in, too.
Jun 12 01:18:44  oh ok, but transmission pauses the torrent and the wifi connection is still on
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 12 01:23:10 2008
Jun 12 01:27:48  torrents soon illegal
Jun 12 01:27:59  wha?
Jun 12 01:28:13  they should ban internet
Jun 12 01:28:18  that would be easier
Jun 12 01:28:20  hack someone elses windows machine
Jun 12 01:28:27  That will be hilarious to enforce.
Jun 12 01:28:37  get someone else in jail, prefeably a govt employee
Jun 12 01:28:43  learn to hack windows boxen
Jun 12 01:31:53  btw. is concept of 'illegal information' existing anywhere else than human minds?
Jun 12 01:33:21  no of course not
Jun 12 01:33:26  just like illegal plants
Jun 12 01:33:48 * GeneralAntilles ships pupnik a pair of illegal pants.
Jun 12 01:33:49  how would torrents ever become illegal >_>
Jun 12 01:33:52 * GeneralAntilles calls the Feds on pupnik.
Jun 12 01:33:57  that'll never happen
Jun 12 01:34:18  rm_you, dunno about never happening
Jun 12 01:34:23  it can never be ENFORCED
Jun 12 01:34:28  But politicians are stupid people.
Jun 12 01:34:40  you underestimate the capacity for enforcement GeneralAntilles
Jun 12 01:34:58  stupid is a bad word, corrupted is better
Jun 12 01:35:13  ... Blizzard uses torrents for WoW updates >_>
Jun 12 01:35:22  Well, it could be "enforced" like the drug laws are "enforced"
Jun 12 01:35:31  much easier
Jun 12 01:35:33  Really, technically, everything on the internet is p2p
Jun 12 01:35:34  rm_you: then they will start using http or ftp again
Jun 12 01:35:35  whatever
Jun 12 01:35:48  if torrents become illegal, we'll invent "smorrents"
Jun 12 01:35:56  very similar, but not quite the same thing
Jun 12 01:36:15  then they can go ahead and spend years extending the torrent regulations to smorrents too
Jun 12 01:36:16  you can encrypt everything
Jun 12 01:36:19  then blorrents
Jun 12 01:36:20  i mean
Jun 12 01:36:22  seriously
Jun 12 01:36:32  and the state can put a bullet in your head for using encryption
Jun 12 01:36:40  Welcome to Iran
Jun 12 01:36:46  ;)
Jun 12 01:37:01 * GeneralAntilles is just waiting for the revolution.
Jun 12 01:37:13  that's unforrtunatelly the possibility
Jun 12 01:37:14  real one
Jun 12 01:37:36  oh what, the smart people starting an uprising?
Jun 12 01:37:40  but i tell you, they will just give you some chemicals
Jun 12 01:37:53  no, eliminating threat to the state
Jun 12 01:38:05  yes, that's fairly easy now, isn't it
Jun 12 01:38:43  otoh, why should we complain?
Jun 12 01:38:52  we're so far beyond what the nazis could do
Jun 12 01:39:04  just commenting on the mechanisms
Jun 12 01:39:13  nazis wanted nwo too fast
Jun 12 01:39:17  want a free world for our offspring
Jun 12 01:39:33  define free
Jun 12 01:39:47  you can do what you want, as long as you don't hurt other people
Jun 12 01:39:59  define hurt
Jun 12 01:40:07  It's amazing that human societies descend towards tyranny so easily.
Jun 12 01:40:12  violate property or persons
Jun 12 01:40:19  define violate
Jun 12 01:40:29  steal, defraud or damage
Jun 12 01:40:47  is advertising violating?
Jun 12 01:40:52  nope
Jun 12 01:41:08  unless you claim something you can't deliver
Jun 12 01:41:14  that's fraud
Jun 12 01:41:19  i have time, KotCzarny
Jun 12 01:41:28  yes, world without lies would be nice
Jun 12 01:41:39  but it's a part of human nature
Jun 12 01:41:45  and ability to abstract things
Jun 12 01:41:49  we're just clarifying what constitutes crime
Jun 12 01:42:25  i wonder what would happen if one day, suddenly nobody could tell a lie, only truth
Jun 12 01:42:42  oh i can lie about you, that's not a crime
Jun 12 01:42:58  kotczarny likes to eat shoe leather
Jun 12 01:43:11  never tried, could be true
Jun 12 01:43:12  :)
Jun 12 01:43:15  if i say that, maybe somebody believes it
Jun 12 01:43:23  and then that lowers the value of services you can sell
Jun 12 01:43:31  however that isn't actual damages to you
Jun 12 01:43:45  so i am of the opinion that even lies about a person isn't a crime
Jun 12 01:43:56  just lies about a product in a transaction
Jun 12 01:44:10  "this device will clean your carpet"...
Jun 12 01:44:14  i.e. violating a contract
Jun 12 01:44:19  bingo
Jun 12 01:44:59  if i open a grocery store next to another grocery store
Jun 12 01:45:10  and we think that lowering the value of someone else's services is a crime
Jun 12 01:45:23  then it is a crime for me to open a grocery store next to another grocery store
Jun 12 01:45:40  first you would have to know if it really does that
Jun 12 01:46:01  having 2 groceries can bring more customers to the area
Jun 12 01:46:08  because of better choice
Jun 12 01:46:14  ah good point
Jun 12 01:46:32  so it might not be guaranteed that i lower his prices by competing
Jun 12 01:46:37  but *if* it happens
Jun 12 01:46:42  have i committed a crime?
Jun 12 01:47:11  you want freedom, free market is part of it
Jun 12 01:47:29  right, so lowering the value of someone else's services is not criminal *per-se*
Jun 12 01:47:32  as long you don't bully
Jun 12 01:47:46  and in general if you use only clean competing techniques, you are ok
Jun 12 01:48:18  you can compete in clean way, ie. providing better services
Jun 12 01:48:27  that's not a crime then
Jun 12 01:48:33  yes, there are then borders.  the interesting edge case is "is lying about someone else's person a crime'
Jun 12 01:48:39  but if you compete using force or lies
Jun 12 01:48:44  then it's not ok
Jun 12 01:48:54  lying is bad
Jun 12 01:48:56  yes lies is the interesting edge case
Jun 12 01:49:00  force is clearly wrong
Jun 12 01:49:29  lies is a force by words
Jun 12 01:49:58  *lying
Jun 12 01:50:11  yeah, but have i misrepresented something to a contractual party?
Jun 12 01:50:18  it is grey for me
Jun 12 01:50:46  why did you do it?
Jun 12 01:50:49  Freedom of speech is more important than libel issues, in my opinion.
Jun 12 01:51:22  maybe i'm just a jerk who likes to pollute google with "kotczarny eats shoe leather"
Jun 12 01:51:36  then you are violating my good name
Jun 12 01:51:47  good name is my property
Jun 12 01:51:50  ah but do you own that?
Jun 12 01:51:53  yes i do
Jun 12 01:51:58  great - you get to the heart of things
Jun 12 01:52:11  i'm a part of society
Jun 12 01:52:13 * pupnik high fives KotCzarny for the philosophical competence
Jun 12 01:52:17  wanting it or not
Jun 12 01:52:47  i would submit that one's reputation is not property
Jun 12 01:52:59  and that one must distinguish it from real property
Jun 12 01:53:00  it has a value
Jun 12 01:53:06  yes
Jun 12 01:53:20  that can be exchanged for your 'real' property
Jun 12 01:53:52  but one portion of property that is inherent to its' nature is the natural ability of a person to control it
Jun 12 01:54:14  but you can not naturally control your reputation in your community
Jun 12 01:54:18  yes, i can throw a can of dirt on your grocery store
Jun 12 01:54:29  etc.
Jun 12 01:54:35  that's a direct property violation - of physical goods
Jun 12 01:54:39  e-e
Jun 12 01:54:44  never seen #maemo this philosophical...
Jun 12 01:54:47  but what if you are a hair stylist
Jun 12 01:55:03  and someone says "KotCzarny's haircut was horrible"
Jun 12 01:55:07  It happens every once and a while, Mikho. ;)
Jun 12 01:55:07  you are trying to go physical/non-physical
Jun 12 01:55:15  if you were an animal
Jun 12 01:55:28  then ok, nothing non-physical is real
Jun 12 01:55:36  took a while to read all the scrollback
Jun 12 01:55:37  but you are not only physical
Jun 12 01:55:44  part of you is non-physical
Jun 12 01:55:54  and that's why 'good name' is a real property
Jun 12 01:56:18  yes, but in terms of damages, if you allow reputation to be considered property, than all kinds of legitimate free speech must be constrained
Jun 12 01:56:27  :)
Jun 12 01:56:27  i may no longer say that i don't like the N810 dpad
Jun 12 01:56:30  no
Jun 12 01:56:39  only those 'damaging/violating' ones
Jun 12 01:56:59  ok then maybe you have a distinction that i don't yet see
Jun 12 01:57:35  i guess it is the spreading of falsehoods about something
Jun 12 01:57:35  physical goods can have value or not
Jun 12 01:57:42  depending who you are and what you want
Jun 12 01:58:08  ok, no i think the distinction is devaluation of property by an opinion, or devaluation by a lie
Jun 12 01:58:19  bag of shinies for indians for a gold for westerners
Jun 12 01:58:34  both are lies
Jun 12 01:58:44  depending on their values
Jun 12 01:59:32  right, so if I say the dpad design is an intentional attempt by nokia to create injury to people, that would be a devaluation crime, because i know it's not true
Jun 12 01:59:36  my mental stability may be worth more for me than a state of my trousers
Jun 12 01:59:39  bleh - good discussion
Jun 12 02:00:04  dpad design had it's argumentation in nokia dev labs
Jun 12 02:00:07  (probably)
Jun 12 02:00:18  you have caused me to reconsider my position.  thx
Jun 12 02:00:25  you can cause damage with truth as well
Jun 12 02:00:31  i just hope it wasn't like 'hey, i like how it looks'
Jun 12 02:00:40  without testing for ease of use
Jun 12 02:00:47  mikho: intentionally
Jun 12 02:01:12  but it's bullying in some way
Jun 12 02:01:31  using words as a tool
Jun 12 02:01:47  it's just a little bit different than me smashing in your window or stealing your computer, imo
Jun 12 02:01:53  but then, lies are way worse
Jun 12 02:02:02  pupnik: nope
Jun 12 02:02:11  i value my data more than my hardware
Jun 12 02:02:16  no it is.  one is a first-order destruction or theft of property
Jun 12 02:02:32  the other is only an influence upon people's valuation of your services or property
Jun 12 02:02:40  if you steal my data, configs, address books
Jun 12 02:02:50  that would be more damaging for me than hw loss
Jun 12 02:02:55  nononon
Jun 12 02:03:00  for me, yes
Jun 12 02:03:03  i'm not talking about stealing your data
Jun 12 02:03:22  i'm talking about reducing the value of something you want to sell
Jun 12 02:03:25  reputation etc
Jun 12 02:03:28  but i'm giving it as an example of value difference
Jun 12 02:03:34  ok
Jun 12 02:03:42  hardware without softare is, bleh
Jun 12 02:03:54  what would you do with nit without access to sdk?
Jun 12 02:04:33  ?
Jun 12 02:04:38  you can't say real/virtual
Jun 12 02:04:42  everything is real
Jun 12 02:05:05  everything has it's value
Jun 12 02:05:22  it may be worthless for you
Jun 12 02:05:31  but may be a treasure for someone else
Jun 12 02:05:39  nah i'm trying to draw a line between real damages to things, and a reduction of people's opinions of the value of something of yours
Jun 12 02:05:49  no
Jun 12 02:05:50  and i think the line has some validity
Jun 12 02:05:54  that's what i want to say
Jun 12 02:05:59  you have your values
Jun 12 02:06:12  and they may differ from other peoples values
Jun 12 02:06:15  yes
Jun 12 02:07:20  and here we go back to freedom
Jun 12 02:07:23  and it's value
Jun 12 02:07:38  it may be your priority
Jun 12 02:07:50  yes, my original position was that saying 'kotczarny's apples contain worms' would not be a crime even if it were a lie
Jun 12 02:07:58  because it would not damage your apples per-se
Jun 12 02:08:00  but for some it's worthless, as long their needs are satisfied
Jun 12 02:08:24  but it will be damaging to my good name
Jun 12 02:08:36  how would you resolve it?
Jun 12 02:08:44  Freedom of speech is more important.
Jun 12 02:08:50  yes, but the distinction is that you do not naturally own your good name
Jun 12 02:08:57  it is something that exists in the community
Jun 12 02:09:10  i may say that you don't own your body
Jun 12 02:09:17  imagine breeding factory
Jun 12 02:09:31  that will stamp you with a contract on your birth
Jun 12 02:09:41  what now?
Jun 12 02:10:01  uh, that's a vilation of rights
Jun 12 02:10:05  no, why?
Jun 12 02:10:09  they gave you life
Jun 12 02:10:11  one naturally owns one's body
Jun 12 02:10:12  and raised you
Jun 12 02:10:15  no.
Jun 12 02:10:16  oh
Jun 12 02:10:21  they gave you minerals
Jun 12 02:10:23  and atoms
Jun 12 02:10:25  and energy
Jun 12 02:10:32  well
Jun 12 02:10:36  not gave, lend.
Jun 12 02:10:44  yes, but your nature as a conscious being means you determine how you move, type, think, speak etc
Jun 12 02:10:54  not really
Jun 12 02:10:57  every act you do is volition
Jun 12 02:11:19  it's possible only with some kind of religion
Jun 12 02:11:40  otherwise it's just random, with some high probability for some actions
Jun 12 02:12:09  you're saying that you have a natural right to what others think of you, in the exact same way that you have the right to move your arm or fingers or mouth?
Jun 12 02:12:29  lebens raum
Jun 12 02:12:38  it extends from my body
Jun 12 02:12:53  my good name extends into society mind
Jun 12 02:13:09  i still see a distinction there, though i could see how lying about someone might be some kind of violation
Jun 12 02:13:11  it's a part of me in the reality of society
Jun 12 02:13:23  yeah, you made your point well
Jun 12 02:13:51  :)
Jun 12 02:14:23  but when the resources shrink we all fallback to bestiality
Jun 12 02:14:36  society is a luxury
Jun 12 02:15:02  you hobbsian
Jun 12 02:15:18  i disagree that the natural state of man is 'war of all against all'
Jun 12 02:15:18  think of it as a fractal
Jun 12 02:15:28  crude at far look
Jun 12 02:15:39  but more and more detailed with enough time/calculations
Jun 12 02:15:58  pupnik: we will see, bad times before our civilization
Jun 12 02:15:58  :)
Jun 12 02:16:06  (civilisation?)
Jun 12 02:16:19  british vs american spelling
Jun 12 02:16:38  yeah, british from school, american from internet
Jun 12 02:17:16  well, i think 'z' when used as a verb
Jun 12 02:18:02  regardless, this is my favorite offtopic conversation yet in maemo.  thanks
Jun 12 02:18:08  :)
Jun 12 02:18:40  so, did you reach a conclusion about the torrents?
Jun 12 02:19:08  it's a protocal
Jun 12 02:19:10  protocol
Jun 12 02:19:16  yes
Jun 12 02:19:25  company may be closed
Jun 12 02:19:30  but protocol will live
Jun 12 02:20:24  main problem of anti-piracy people is that internet bits are not under full control
Jun 12 02:20:40  I thought it was that they didn't have all our money yet?
Jun 12 02:20:45  Isn't that their problem?
Jun 12 02:20:46  from peer to peer
Jun 12 02:20:51  I think internet anonymity should be removed
Jun 12 02:21:09  shapr: what's the use of the money if only one entity have it?
Jun 12 02:21:11  :)
Jun 12 02:21:11  there is no anonymity :P just cost of your privicy
Jun 12 02:21:11  it's a bit impossible, but wouldn't it be nice...
Jun 12 02:21:12  Mikho: I'm about to knock on your door.
Jun 12 02:21:16  privacy
Jun 12 02:21:23  ei?
Jun 12 02:21:23  if anti-piracy would be enforced, while open source would be freed, that'd give a boost to open-source
Jun 12 02:21:31  Mikho, no.
Jun 12 02:21:42  Mikho: I'm taking the bus from Tornio down to see you.
Jun 12 02:22:15 * pupnik daydreams about the companies he could report for copyright violations to the SPA
Jun 12 02:22:23  shapr, please come
Jun 12 02:22:23  Mikho: Ok, not really :-)
Jun 12 02:22:36  I have spent time at Oulu unversity though.
Jun 12 02:22:37  I'm in Tokyo :)
Jun 12 02:22:39  bah
Jun 12 02:22:54  Do you know Erno Kuusela in Oulu?
Jun 12 02:23:08  Mikho: It's okay, I'm in Boston :-P
Jun 12 02:23:08  no, I don't think we've met
Jun 12 02:23:38  Erno is a really cool guy, he's usually e or e` on ircnet.
Jun 12 02:24:10  pupnik: report, then what?
Jun 12 02:24:11  I've forgotten the name of the group at Oulu that broke XDR a few years back...
Jun 12 02:24:27  I see
Jun 12 02:24:44  I'll say hello from shapr if he comes across
Jun 12 02:25:01  That would be cool :-)
Jun 12 02:25:13  oh, I nearly got to visit the first IRC server in Oulu, but the professor was out to lunch :-(
Jun 12 02:25:26  He's using that first IRC server as a flower pot.
Jun 12 02:25:28  bad luck :/
Jun 12 02:25:30  Yeah
Jun 12 02:25:50  Finland has come up with lots of great stuff... IRC, Linux, neural networks, ssh...
Jun 12 02:26:18  I'm convinced the krapula was invented in Finland too.
Jun 12 02:26:28  nonono
Jun 12 02:26:35  that's imported
Jun 12 02:26:37  haha
Jun 12 02:26:51  Salmiakki Koskenkorva is pure Finnish though.
Jun 12 02:27:12  KotCzarny: no practical point to it - just the idea of promoting open-source by stopping warez
Jun 12 02:27:25  :)
Jun 12 02:27:38  open-music ?
Jun 12 02:27:42  Ah, difficult to get salmiakki from around here
Jun 12 02:27:51  people seem to think it's poison
Jun 12 02:27:54  Yeah, I haven't been able to find any in Boston either :-(
Jun 12 02:27:59  or a decent sauna for that matter.
Jun 12 02:28:01  wait, we already had it, mod.ules :)
Jun 12 02:28:09  there's awesome open music
Jun 12 02:28:14  I had a great sauna in my house in Tornio.
Jun 12 02:28:24  uade: module 'MOD.the last kuusnepa' (7580 bytes)
Jun 12 02:28:25  :)
Jun 12 02:28:28  crank it up to 80°, drink beer and then go roll in the snow....
Jun 12 02:29:02  Mikho: On the good side, it's easy to get great Sake there. Not so easy here.
Jun 12 02:29:14  true
Jun 12 02:29:30  My kuksa is wearing out, I need a new one :-(
Jun 12 02:29:41  Do you know anyone who sells those online?
Jun 12 02:29:44  maybe I should buy some just because I can..
Jun 12 02:29:47  hah
Jun 12 02:29:49  normally I prefer beer
Jun 12 02:29:53  Koff?
Jun 12 02:30:00  Lapin Kulta? :-)
Jun 12 02:30:08  I lived two blocks from the Lapin Kulta brewery.
Jun 12 02:30:14  i think there are lot of companies that sell them online
Jun 12 02:30:23  did you get inside?
Jun 12 02:30:32  I don't think so.
Jun 12 02:30:44  Of course, they gave away free beer on the tours, so I probably wouldn't remember if I did get inside.
Jun 12 02:30:47  been there thrice \o/
Jun 12 02:30:52  Ooh, lucky you.
Jun 12 02:31:06  Did you hang out at the Umpitunneli in downtown Tornio?
Jun 12 02:31:17  That was the social center of Tornio when I lived there.
Jun 12 02:31:47  nope, never spent a night in tornio
Jun 12 02:32:04  The other (sort of upscale) option was the bar in the hotel.
Jun 12 02:32:26  That was pretty much all the social life I ever saw in Tornio. I think that might have been all there was.
Jun 12 02:32:50  might be
Jun 12 02:32:51  Then I moved to Sweden.
Jun 12 02:33:16  minä en puhu suomea.... men jag talar svenska...
Jun 12 02:33:42  Mikho: Did you go to school in Oulu? Or just grow up there?
Jun 12 02:34:09  well, both
Jun 12 02:34:21  Cool
Jun 12 02:34:33  How'd you get to Tokyo? Got a job there?
Jun 12 02:35:29  research collaboration
Jun 12 02:35:32  Oh cool
Jun 12 02:35:51  What kind of research do you do?
Jun 12 02:36:13  writing maemo apps of course :)
Jun 12 02:36:16  hah cool!
Jun 12 02:36:34  in tokyo ? :/
Jun 12 02:36:40  why not?
Jun 12 02:36:41  :)
Jun 12 02:36:53  it is strange for me :)
Jun 12 02:37:07  writing maemo apps is great in tokyo
Jun 12 02:37:22  open source apps ?
Jun 12 02:37:51  I worked at a Nokia subcontractor in Tornio. That was exciting... All I have left is one screenshot of Nokia 9210 dev - http://www.scannedinavian.com/~shae/blog/images/nokia-emu-jython.png
Jun 12 02:38:09  In the end yes
Jun 12 02:38:30  Mikho: What have you worked on?
Jun 12 02:38:57  epoc.. fun...
Jun 12 02:39:14  Yeah, 0ldsk00l pain.
Jun 12 02:39:45  ah, have to go now :)
Jun 12 02:39:48 * shapr waves
Jun 12 02:40:09  cu later
Jun 12 02:40:15  also winme..
Jun 12 02:40:17  So, uh, who wants to get behind this and get it rolling? http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council
Jun 12 02:41:07  I like a meritocracy, those who write more code gets more say.
Jun 12 02:41:19  :)
Jun 12 02:41:28  designers are fun too
Jun 12 02:41:31  Hardcore developers usually don't have a lot of time for stuff like this. ;)
Jun 12 02:41:43  and usually don't have a great picture of the community as a whole.
Jun 12 02:41:49  Besides, this isn't really about "say"
Jun 12 02:42:10  it's about focusing the dialog between the community and Nokia.
Jun 12 02:42:53  am i community?
Jun 12 02:43:05  Am I community?
Jun 12 02:43:15  Everybody who owns a tablet is community.
Jun 12 02:43:17  everyone is a community
Jun 12 02:43:36  then yeah it'd be a nice idea
Jun 12 02:43:46  except i disagree with you ppl on everything!
Jun 12 02:43:55  no problem
Jun 12 02:44:02  am i still community?
Jun 12 02:44:05  yes
Jun 12 02:44:16  i'm kidding
Jun 12 02:44:22  yeah that's a cool idea
Jun 12 02:44:44  you guys should totally do it
Jun 12 02:44:58  not me, i'm a hacker
Jun 12 02:45:04  Yeah, we've gotten that far. ;) Now we need to get down to the nitty-gritty and Jaffa's on vacation. >:|
Jun 12 02:45:28  you should make a voting system
Jun 12 02:45:33  that only works on tablets
Jun 12 02:45:36  I just want to inject 802.11 frames.
Jun 12 02:45:50  use usb adapter?
Jun 12 02:45:50  :)
Jun 12 02:45:58  and then we vote for the community leaders
Jun 12 02:46:05  I also want A2DP support that uses the DSP.
Jun 12 02:46:09  and farm money and all that stuff
Jun 12 02:46:26  shapr,https://garage.maemo.org/projects/dsp-sbc/
Jun 12 02:46:37  cool!
Jun 12 02:46:50  does canola2 work in 2008HE for the n770?
Jun 12 02:46:58  shapr, work in progress though :>
Jun 12 02:47:02  http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/37474 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/37316
Jun 12 02:47:43  ICY Info: StreamTitle='Leinad - Fear of the Exams';
Jun 12 02:49:19  aw well, I am just gonna reflash with 2007he does anyone know how to enable usb-host mode off hand (not the wiring just what I have to do software side) I used to know, but it has been a while and it seems google has buried that info
Jun 12 02:50:20  my biggest wish is musicmaking on maemo
Jun 12 02:50:32  but there aren't many ppl interested
Jun 12 02:50:34  other than that
Jun 12 02:50:38  n800m: what would you have it do?
Jun 12 02:50:42  i vote yest for everything
Jun 12 02:50:48  n800m: use uae and protracker
Jun 12 02:50:48  :>
Jun 12 02:51:16  well ppl do a lot of dsp on it so it should be capable of more
Jun 12 02:51:22  n800m: or octamed
Jun 12 02:51:32  i'm not complaining, just stating
Jun 12 02:51:37  i couldn't get uae to run
Jun 12 02:51:44  n800m: pupnik.de
Jun 12 02:52:25  i tried that install but didn't work
Jun 12 02:52:35  just stating a wish kot
Jun 12 02:52:39  not bitching :)
Jun 12 02:52:49  but i think the hardware's there for better recording
Jun 12 02:52:50  otoh i need to fix that mouse absolute positioning working :)
Jun 12 02:52:59  and some synthesis
Jun 12 02:53:04  sample playback
Jun 12 02:53:13  n800m: main problem is closed sound driver i guess..
Jun 12 02:53:30  that's why i think this council thing would be good
Jun 12 02:53:34  they'll listen
Jun 12 02:53:45  you can get esd/alsa/oss arch running to some extent
Jun 12 02:53:46  :)
Jun 12 02:53:58  yeah i saw alsa in xmms
Jun 12 02:54:51  usually it's just a matter of grabbing your favourite synth app and compiling it yourself
Jun 12 02:55:00  or trying to install packages from debian.org
Jun 12 02:55:27  hopefully after qt gets in maemo
Jun 12 02:55:30  more stuff will work
Jun 12 02:55:43  i don't use qt
Jun 12 02:55:44  :)
Jun 12 02:55:49  you're not a sound app
Jun 12 02:55:58  unfortunately :x
Jun 12 02:58:25  so is there any plans in the works for something after the n810? I really want something like that with the thumb-board and GPS but I have heard the GPS is lousy and the thumb-boards top row is not really usable
Jun 12 02:58:49  grow nails
Jun 12 02:58:52 * KotCzarny grins
Jun 12 02:59:25  lol
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 12 02:59:57 2008