**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 13 02:59:57 2008 Jun 13 03:00:20 huh... I guess I figure I'm paying for a cellphone, I'll just use that Jun 13 03:00:24 summa: what do you use for calling landlines in .eu? Jun 13 03:00:25 lol Jun 13 03:00:43 KotCzarny: I don't know anyone in .eu Jun 13 03:00:47 i do Jun 13 03:00:47 :) Jun 13 03:00:58 ok... so first quesetion then... Jun 13 03:01:02 GAN800, you're right, the virtual memory wasn't on Jun 13 03:01:21 summatusmentis, my skype minutes are cheaper than my cell minutes Jun 13 03:01:39 plus skype-in calls are free Jun 13 03:01:40 Navi: my parents pay for my cell minutes :) Jun 13 03:01:45 :P Jun 13 03:01:46 Make sure you internal partition isn't oversized, Mikho Jun 13 03:01:51 skype in-calls make sense I suppose Jun 13 03:01:56 GeneralAntilles: wow, don't have SPACE for wesnoth :( Jun 13 03:01:57 I wish I had grandcentral though Jun 13 03:02:10 that would be perfect Jun 13 03:02:12 what kind of alternate operating systems can you install. Is it only a few that have been reworked the right way to fit the n800, or could you install a random os to an SD card and boot from it Jun 13 03:02:14 GAN800, how do I do that? Why would it be oversized? Jun 13 03:02:27 factory bug Jun 13 03:02:35 Chaz: there is a debian that is bootable Jun 13 03:02:43 It ships oversized from the factory. Jun 13 03:02:54 eh? Jun 13 03:02:57 yup Jun 13 03:03:00 read about it on itt Jun 13 03:03:08 ok Jun 13 03:03:08 or just run partition magic via usb Jun 13 03:03:12 (backup first) Jun 13 03:03:15 omg Jun 13 03:03:18 internet tablet school has an article on it. Jun 13 03:03:58 hello - new to maemo.. first day actually.. kind of getting the hang of thigns Jun 13 03:04:14 hey Jun 13 03:04:23 I was wondering about the image viewer.. how do I invoke that via a cmd line? Jun 13 03:04:32 rm_you: hi Jun 13 03:04:37 I heard something about the USB not being compatiible with all devices. id this true? Like if I wanted to plug in a usb keyboard by using an adapter could I do it? and if not normally, then would the debian OS be able to support the drivers Jun 13 03:05:06 They compiled it with the whitelist enabled. Jun 13 03:05:25 and there are power issues with otg Jun 13 03:05:31 oh /usr/local/bin/image-viewer I guess Jun 13 03:06:39 @_@ this is confusing. Hey, if anyone is willing, can you talk with me 1 on 1 over AIM/Skype? Jun 13 03:07:29 hmm not really.. got the default set of images.. in the hidden images dir Jun 13 03:07:53 -_- Jun 13 03:09:28 Chaz, generally speaking, as long as the device isn't an off-brand piece of junk and as long as it doesn't take 100mA it'll work fine. Jun 13 03:11:03 ok, that's good Jun 13 03:11:23 ron paul speaking right now Jun 13 03:11:28 Hey, pupnik_. Jun 13 03:11:39 http://wm15.spacialnet.com/bootlegDC99453 Jun 13 03:11:40 what's he going on about now? Jun 13 03:11:42 hmmm no python Jun 13 03:11:50 http://www.justin.tv/ronpaul Jun 13 03:11:58 Chaz: generally, public discussion is happy :) Jun 13 03:12:14 for the n800 to have GPS functionality, do I have to buy nokia's gps kit, or can I use a receiver bought off of amazon? Jun 13 03:12:25 ~catch it GeneralAntilles Jun 13 03:12:29 * infobot lures it GeneralAntilles into the crab motel -- it GeneralAntilles checks in, but won't be checking out... Jun 13 03:12:44 * Chaz dies Jun 13 03:12:59 Chaz, you can use a Bluetooth GPS just fine. Jun 13 03:13:01 i stayed up all night for it Jun 13 03:13:09 pupnik_, :P Jun 13 03:13:10 oh ffs, he's still campaigning? Jun 13 03:13:16 I thought he dropped Jun 13 03:13:26 ok, because I could get one from amazon for 40 bucks as compared to 200 Jun 13 03:13:28 @_@ Jun 13 03:13:29 lol Jun 13 03:14:02 yep, bluetooth is bluetooth is bluetooth, mostly Jun 13 03:14:07 lol, ok Jun 13 03:14:07 ron is kicking ass and chewing gum Jun 13 03:14:29 good, hopefully he'll pull enough votes from mccain Jun 13 03:14:48 grab the speech summatusmentis Jun 13 03:15:02 pupnik_: I don't care enough, can't stand him Jun 13 03:15:06 sorry :) Jun 13 03:15:10 summatusmentis, don't get fooled into thinking the Hillary or Obama are any different from McCain. ;) Jun 13 03:15:20 summatusmentis, not a fan of liberty and freedom, then? Jun 13 03:15:31 not a fan of people who claim they're for liberty and freedom Jun 13 03:15:33 I haven't found anything really recent, but is there currently any functioning video recording functionality on the n800 with OS2008? Jun 13 03:15:41 summatusmentis, ah, brainwashed. Jun 13 03:15:41 and not a fan of the 'everyone for themselves' mentality Jun 13 03:15:49 * darkblue_B frowns on one-liner politics Jun 13 03:15:53 That's not the mentality. Jun 13 03:15:56 right, it's oversized Jun 13 03:16:00 You don't understand the philosophy. Jun 13 03:16:01 no, the point is to allow society to take care of ourselves Jun 13 03:16:10 we help each other Jun 13 03:16:14 government doesn't help Jun 13 03:16:16 It's "not use the government to steal from peter to pay paul" Jun 13 03:16:20 bingo Jun 13 03:16:32 is this the way this channel is? Jun 13 03:16:42 darkblue_B, this channel is a lot of things. Jun 13 03:16:44 It's a community. Jun 13 03:16:46 i'm not being shy anymore Jun 13 03:16:48 We discuss many different topics. Jun 13 03:16:54 sometimes peter should be 'stolen' from, if paul is unable to take care of himself Jun 13 03:17:02 this is a huge topic Jun 13 03:17:05 how many of you are on internet tablets? Jun 13 03:17:09 Amoral use of force Jun 13 03:17:10 awesome. Jun 13 03:17:14 Chaz, most. Jun 13 03:17:19 Wait, on right now? Jun 13 03:17:19 can you really do justice to it in a few lines? Jun 13 03:17:20 hehe, awesome Jun 13 03:17:23 GAN800 is. Jun 13 03:17:24 i use the tablet ALL the TIME Jun 13 03:17:31 yeah, I mean for this IRC Jun 13 03:17:35 pupnik_, http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Ron-Paul.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin <- So this isn't true? Jun 13 03:17:36 :] Jun 13 03:17:41 Chaz: I'm not Jun 13 03:17:50 GeneralAntilles: amoral in what way? really? how is general beneficience amoral? Jun 13 03:17:59 I haven't baught my tablet yet, but I can't wait O_O Jun 13 03:18:05 I'm looking for python.. and I'm not a ninja with repositories Jun 13 03:18:08 Navi - watch the speech Jun 13 03:18:14 Chaz: not using a tablet now Jun 13 03:18:17 summatusmentis, so you're going to argue that using force to steal from somebody is a net good? Jun 13 03:18:20 I don't have the bandwidth to do so :/ Jun 13 03:18:23 I think he will go on through the convention Jun 13 03:18:24 ok Jun 13 03:18:33 i'll report if he quits Jun 13 03:18:34 GeneralAntilles: taxation is completely different than using force Jun 13 03:18:39 No it's not. Jun 13 03:18:44 * darkblue_B *groan* Jun 13 03:18:45 What backs up tax collection? Jun 13 03:18:47 Men with guns. Jun 13 03:18:53 #maemo-politics Jun 13 03:18:58 What happens if you don't pay your taxes? Jun 13 03:18:58 only in the most extreme sense Jun 13 03:19:01 Navi: +1 Jun 13 03:19:13 is the n810 really worth $200 extra? I could get GPS (which is my main selling point for it over the n800) for a lot cheaper than that, and I don't care too much for the fixed camera or HW keyboard Jun 13 03:19:17 darkblue_B, you have to apt-get the python packages Jun 13 03:19:20 Chaz, I'd say no. Jun 13 03:19:25 Chaz: no Jun 13 03:19:29 Chaz, the main selling point is sleekness and keyboard Jun 13 03:19:29 It really comes down to two things, the keyboard and the screen. Jun 13 03:19:36 Chaz: depends, keyboard is nice to have Jun 13 03:19:37 yep Jun 13 03:19:37 and the SD slots Jun 13 03:19:37 or enable red pill to install from the app manager Jun 13 03:19:41 Navi: so what are my choices with the defualt repository? how can I tell whch pythons are there? Jun 13 03:19:44 Some people REALLY can't handle not having a hardware keyboard. Jun 13 03:19:48 I was going to buy a BT keyboard Jun 13 03:19:48 and the SD slots Jun 13 03:19:49 darkblue_B, python's in Extras Jun 13 03:19:50 and the SD slots Jun 13 03:19:54 and the N810's screen is transflective, so you can actually read it in sunlight. Jun 13 03:19:58 * summatusmentis is one of those people that GeneralAntilles is talking about Jun 13 03:20:01 *mostly* the SD slots Jun 13 03:20:22 yeah, the 2 SD card slots has me hooked on the n800 Jun 13 03:20:28 hehe Jun 13 03:20:28 i still love my 770 :) Jun 13 03:20:30 The N800 has a maximum of 64GB of storage versus 18GB on the N810 with the currently available SD cards. Jun 13 03:20:34 pupnik_, is that link live streaming? Jun 13 03:20:38 yeah Jun 13 03:20:40 yeah Jun 13 03:20:41 the sd slots are nice, touche Jun 13 03:20:51 so the 32gb cards run fine on it? Jun 13 03:20:57 n810 look more sleek though Jun 13 03:21:09 Chaz, probably Jun 13 03:21:10 Chaz, 2048GB cards will run fine. Jun 13 03:21:15 lol Jun 13 03:21:29 has an 800 with no python yet Jun 13 03:21:33 well I wasn't sure about it's capacity for SDHD over plain SD Jun 13 03:21:43 darkblue: install canola, it will suck python Jun 13 03:21:45 darkblue_B, enable the extras repository and install canola from it Jun 13 03:22:00 enable the extras repository, how? Jun 13 03:22:15 hi pupnik btw Jun 13 03:22:26 oh, another thing Jun 13 03:22:31 go to the menu Tools->Application Catalog Jun 13 03:22:42 has skype been set to work with video chats with PC's yet? Jun 13 03:22:45 ok Jun 13 03:22:50 edit maemo Extras and uncheck the Disabled box Jun 13 03:22:51 that's one thing that's gonna bug me if not Jun 13 03:22:52 chaz: no Jun 13 03:22:56 Chaz, Linux Skype doesn't have video chat yet. . . . Jun 13 03:23:00 aww man Jun 13 03:23:04 Use Gizmo Jun 13 03:23:05 Skype sucks anyway. Jun 13 03:23:08 linux skype HAS video chat Jun 13 03:23:08 ok done Jun 13 03:23:18 what if you run remote desktop and open it from your computer? Jun 13 03:23:31 or would that run a camera on your PC Jun 13 03:23:31 Helloooo slideshow! Jun 13 03:23:38 <_< Jun 13 03:24:10 ok, you are saying canola, not python Jun 13 03:24:46 darkblue_B, Application manager only shows packages in User/, Python is not in user. Just install something that depends on it. Jun 13 03:24:49 Canola is a good something. Jun 13 03:25:01 canola is a media player, it'll install python Jun 13 03:25:31 hmm ok. Jun 13 03:25:54 no one answered my earlier question, is it possible to have the n800 record video? Jun 13 03:25:57 installing canola2 Jun 13 03:26:08 recording yes, using with skype, no Jun 13 03:26:22 ok, so I could video blog? Jun 13 03:26:24 sweet Jun 13 03:26:31 Chaz: if the n800 cam is anything like the n810 cam, it's not worth it Jun 13 03:26:35 I, for one, was psyched to see flash play out of the box Jun 13 03:26:45 lol Jun 13 03:27:16 well the camera seemed to look pretty good in all the times I've seen it used in videos Jun 13 03:27:28 ... Jun 13 03:27:33 it's a webcam Jun 13 03:27:36 expect noise Jun 13 03:27:39 lots of noise Jun 13 03:27:45 isn't it like 2mp? Jun 13 03:27:47 KotCzarny++ Jun 13 03:27:47 lol Jun 13 03:27:48 nope Jun 13 03:28:01 352x288 is quite ok Jun 13 03:28:03 oh, I must have been thinking of the advantage Jun 13 03:28:07 but still noisy Jun 13 03:28:22 even with good lighting conditions it's noisy Jun 13 03:28:28 ah Jun 13 03:28:45 could you connect an external webcam that has better quality? Jun 13 03:28:47 aha python 2.5.2 thx Jun 13 03:28:51 anything lower than sunlight and it's barely recognizable Jun 13 03:29:21 i may be exaggerating though :) Jun 13 03:29:24 haha Jun 13 03:29:48 only slightly Jun 13 03:29:54 I love the style that the pop out camera adds. I just think it's the coolest thing ever Jun 13 03:29:54 the noise is really terrible Jun 13 03:29:56 haha Jun 13 03:30:14 i like n810 style Jun 13 03:30:28 that way you can use that cam as a light meter Jun 13 03:30:29 :) Jun 13 03:30:42 idk, there's just something about the style of the n800 that I love Jun 13 03:30:50 it's such a cool little device Jun 13 03:30:55 indeed Jun 13 03:31:02 y Jun 13 03:31:15 is the n800 bigger than the n810? a picture I saw a while ago makes is seem larger Jun 13 03:31:21 A little bit. Jun 13 03:31:22 not that much Jun 13 03:31:24 Lighter, though. Jun 13 03:31:25 yeah, it's slightly larger Jun 13 03:31:33 lighter? Jun 13 03:31:34 n810 design makes it LOOK much smaller Jun 13 03:31:39 how? the keyboard? Jun 13 03:31:43 n810 is thinner Jun 13 03:31:46 rounded corners etc Jun 13 03:31:50 The N800 is about 20g lighter. Jun 13 03:31:54 Less crap packed in there. Jun 13 03:32:04 more space for hardware hacking ;) Jun 13 03:32:08 n800 has a fm tuner Jun 13 03:32:11 meh, n810 is solid feeling :) Jun 13 03:32:13 n810 hasn't Jun 13 03:32:13 No keyboard, no slider parts, no GPS, no transflective. Jun 13 03:32:13 :) Jun 13 03:32:31 yeah, that makes sense Jun 13 03:33:01 who here's used the vrc thing for remote desktop? Jun 13 03:33:16 vnc ? Jun 13 03:33:20 yeah, sorry Jun 13 03:33:34 not on the n810, I have used it in the past though Jun 13 03:33:44 is canola written in Flash? Jun 13 03:33:47 no Jun 13 03:33:52 in python Jun 13 03:33:56 all python somehow? Jun 13 03:34:00 yes Jun 13 03:34:05 does it work from wherever you are if you have internet? Jun 13 03:34:11 Python and EFL Jun 13 03:34:12 how did he specify the slider efffects and all? Jun 13 03:34:16 EFL... Jun 13 03:34:17 ? Jun 13 03:34:17 chaz: it's just a regular pc Jun 13 03:34:20 only mobile Jun 13 03:34:26 Enlightenment Foundation Libraries Jun 13 03:34:31 darkblue_B: Enlightenment Foundation Libraries Jun 13 03:34:33 Stuff that E17 uses Jun 13 03:34:33 oh... Jun 13 03:34:34 (and with arm and not pentium) Jun 13 03:34:36 I mean the remote desktop Jun 13 03:34:40 hmmm new to me Jun 13 03:34:49 Old stuff Jun 13 03:35:13 just a set of libraries that make pretty-ness w/out needing hardware acceleration Jun 13 03:35:21 ah so Jun 13 03:35:55 I mean does remote desktop/VNC work from wherever you are if you have an internet connection. And does the target computer have to be on? Jun 13 03:36:04 lol Jun 13 03:36:14 yeah, that's a new one Jun 13 03:36:21 turn off computer and work on it Jun 13 03:36:28 O_O Jun 13 03:36:31 Chaz, it has to be on Jun 13 03:36:37 target computer has to be on, and it needs to have an external ip Jun 13 03:36:39 monitor can be turned off though Jun 13 03:36:39 just wondering, I'm a total noob at this stuff Jun 13 03:36:41 :) Jun 13 03:36:57 I set up VNC to the N800 frst thing today Jun 13 03:37:09 how does it work for you? Jun 13 03:37:10 it works .. one menu doesnt seem to click Jun 13 03:37:18 dont know why Jun 13 03:37:25 but otherwise its the way to go Jun 13 03:37:38 i had to find an installer for os2008 Jun 13 03:38:01 is it possible to get a BT mouse to work on it? I hear some ppl say no, but I remember reading about a hack to show the pointer Jun 13 03:38:05 dont use general Ubuntu stuff *cough KotCzarny* Jun 13 03:38:21 darkblue: i use slackware Jun 13 03:38:35 thx to johnx Jun 13 03:41:57 so in general, how would you all say that the nokia n770/8x0 has affected/improved your life Jun 13 03:42:14 In more ways than I can list Jun 13 03:42:16 770, N8X0 Jun 13 03:42:26 It's pretty much changed the way I use the internet Jun 13 03:42:29 WOO WOO WOo! Jun 13 03:42:32 Yes, it's improved my life Jun 13 03:42:37 pupnik_, CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE Jun 13 03:42:41 FREEDOM Jun 13 03:42:46 * Navi shrugs Jun 13 03:43:05 yep fredom :( Jun 13 03:43:14 one thing I can think of at least that I would really enjoy is getting GIMP to run and having a portable graphic arts platform Jun 13 03:43:30 GIMP requires a lot of resources Jun 13 03:43:35 but runs Jun 13 03:43:39 is the touch screen multi level pressure sensitive? Jun 13 03:43:42 -1 Jun 13 03:43:44 sorta Jun 13 03:43:58 portable devices outght to have their own interface Jun 13 03:44:14 how sorta? Jun 13 03:44:21 it doesnt make sense to jam something that depends on screen real estate Jun 13 03:44:23 The pressure sensitivity is really sensitive Jun 13 03:44:35 .. onto a tiny device Jun 13 03:44:51 Chaz, there's mypaint and mtpaint if you want some drawing Jun 13 03:45:00 canola is pretty neat Jun 13 03:45:11 yeah, I was going to ask about alternate paint programs Jun 13 03:45:25 how are they as far as tools go? Jun 13 03:45:29 I wrote a paint program .. 20 years ago Jun 13 03:45:51 port it Jun 13 03:45:56 Chaz, mtpaint is faster and more responsive, generally Jun 13 03:46:03 had fun.. paried like a rock star.. didnt sell it.. now I'm broke again Jun 13 03:46:06 Chaz, but mypaint has alpha brushes Jun 13 03:46:26 I'll try both Jun 13 03:46:39 and GIMP runs on the debian OS right? Jun 13 03:46:52 Runs, but not great Jun 13 03:46:55 yeah Jun 13 03:47:00 I'll try it out at least Jun 13 03:47:06 see for mtself Jun 13 03:47:39 so with the debian OS, does it display a desktop like a typical OS? Jun 13 03:47:48 It's just Debian Jun 13 03:47:52 Chaz: I would recommend a chroot for debian, instead of installing directly Jun 13 03:48:06 armel debian Jun 13 03:48:07 me = noob Jun 13 03:48:17 (explain please @_@) Jun 13 03:48:29 different cpu Jun 13 03:49:00 not the armel thing, the thing about chroot Jun 13 03:49:42 Chaz, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroot Jun 13 03:50:06 thanks =) Jun 13 03:51:47 random thought, but can you get viruses on the n800? Jun 13 03:52:02 not likely Jun 13 03:52:05 you can do all stupid things Jun 13 03:52:05 it's linux based Jun 13 03:52:17 I dont know much about t.. but I think they generally woould have to get provs somehow Jun 13 03:52:22 I would think that the linux sustem would naturally make it really hard to get them Jun 13 03:52:22 privelages Jun 13 03:52:39 so.. if something logs in as user, then yes Jun 13 03:52:44 or root say Jun 13 03:52:47 there is nothing 'natural' Jun 13 03:53:05 if your system is badly configured it doesn't matter what is the maker or type Jun 13 03:53:09 lol Jun 13 03:53:29 well, it won't give you viruses... but there are other security issues Jun 13 03:53:33 everything is hackable Jun 13 03:53:36 so the trick is, if code can escalate privs somehow, by executing priv code for example, then they are in Jun 13 03:53:43 I think I'm going to poke around with OS2008 before trying to boot debian or anything Jun 13 03:53:58 but the short answer is, is very unlikely.. do your updates Jun 13 03:54:10 and reflash is ~2-4 minutes Jun 13 03:54:13 ;) Jun 13 03:54:32 nothing from the outside can get through on a system with basic security intact.. roughly Jun 13 03:54:38 what exactly is reflashing? Jun 13 03:54:46 updating the OS Jun 13 03:54:51 think of it as reinstalling os Jun 13 03:54:55 I did it today.. my first hour of using thie thing Jun 13 03:55:08 yes, reinstall Jun 13 03:55:21 so it's like reinstalling os2008? Jun 13 03:55:26 it actually is *replacing the whole os* Jun 13 03:55:37 and the internal card.. I think Jun 13 03:55:42 nope Jun 13 03:55:42 Chaz: yes, in some cases, updating Jun 13 03:55:48 internal card is untouched Jun 13 03:55:52 ok Jun 13 03:55:58 does it erase your programs? Jun 13 03:56:05 yep Jun 13 03:56:14 everything on internal flash Jun 13 03:56:16 aww, that sucks Jun 13 03:56:19 why? Jun 13 03:56:24 if you broke something Jun 13 03:56:31 to the point you need reflash Jun 13 03:56:39 then it's good Jun 13 03:56:39 idk, it would be a pain to have to reinstall all of your programs Jun 13 03:56:50 otherwise you don't need to reflash, right? Jun 13 03:56:53 nope Jun 13 03:56:59 there is a backup function Jun 13 03:57:02 you would have to redo all the settings and stuff Jun 13 03:57:05 oh Jun 13 03:57:06 if you're updating... Jun 13 03:57:19 well you just said it erased them @_@ Jun 13 03:57:23 lol Jun 13 03:57:28 and everything will change will maemo 4.1 Jun 13 03:57:34 (current is 4.0.1) Jun 13 03:57:58 so for the total noobiest question of them all, what exactly is maemo? Jun 13 03:58:08 ~maemo Jun 13 03:58:09 maemo is probably a development platform to create applications for Nokia 770 Internet Tablet and other maemo compliant handheld devices in the future. http://www.maemo.org/ Jun 13 03:58:28 so it's like a programing language? Jun 13 03:58:31 no Jun 13 03:58:49 think of it as a libs and apps Jun 13 03:59:09 ok Jun 13 03:59:26 (there is more, but we are lying to make it short) Jun 13 03:59:33 lol Jun 13 04:00:52 so to backtrack a little bit, does the n800 have mapping software allready on it that is compatable with gps, but no gps receiver? Jun 13 04:01:38 you can use bt one Jun 13 04:02:17 yeah, but does the n800 allready have the right sooftware on it Jun 13 04:02:23 yes Jun 13 04:02:31 ok Jun 13 04:02:39 os wise n800 and n810 have the same packages Jun 13 04:02:39 The mapping software preinstalled needs maps though Jun 13 04:02:48 costs money, I believe Jun 13 04:02:59 money... Jun 13 04:03:05 everything costs money Jun 13 04:03:05 haha Jun 13 04:03:06 You can always install roadmap or maemo mapper Jun 13 04:03:06 use maemo-mapper Jun 13 04:03:10 it's free Jun 13 04:03:16 supports GPS? Jun 13 04:03:20 yes Jun 13 04:03:23 sweet Jun 13 04:03:28 Yeah Jun 13 04:03:34 does it have voices or no Jun 13 04:03:40 i believe yes Jun 13 04:03:44 oh, awesome Jun 13 04:03:54 i may be wrong thoughh Jun 13 04:03:59 as i don't have gps Jun 13 04:04:00 :) Jun 13 04:04:05 You need to download the voice files, but you can use it Jun 13 04:04:05 yeah, right now I have about $400 to spend total Jun 13 04:04:19 n800 is ~200$ Jun 13 04:04:35 from best buy it's $300 Jun 13 04:04:46 bt kb 25$, 8gb sd card ~30$, gps 40-100$ Jun 13 04:04:49 but I have seen as low as $150 Jun 13 04:05:04 bt kb is like 50 - 100 Jun 13 04:05:08 as far as I've seen Jun 13 04:05:12 i got igo ultra slim for 25$ Jun 13 04:05:20 where from? Jun 13 04:05:24 craigslist Jun 13 04:05:25 :) Jun 13 04:05:27 haha Jun 13 04:05:34 that might be why... Jun 13 04:05:45 and my n800 cost 150$ Jun 13 04:05:50 cl too Jun 13 04:06:02 I didn't see any n800s on cl Jun 13 04:06:03 i'm a bad consumer :) Jun 13 04:06:10 there were 2 770s though Jun 13 04:06:11 just lurk for it Jun 13 04:06:28 I found some deals on ebay Jun 13 04:06:36 Eh, ebay Jun 13 04:06:37 cl is better Jun 13 04:06:38 wait, you say you can buy a gos for the 800? Jun 13 04:06:42 gps Jun 13 04:06:47 you actually can test device before you buy Jun 13 04:06:52 lol Jun 13 04:06:57 you can? Jun 13 04:06:57 darkblue: bluetooth Jun 13 04:07:06 ah yes.. external Jun 13 04:07:38 I am fnding the map apps are expecting a gps interface, and I dont see a way to just say "I am here" Jun 13 04:07:41 has the added bonus you can fix gps to the car/bike Jun 13 04:07:47 darkblue: you can get external bt gps receivers for the n800 Jun 13 04:08:05 Freekyfrogy: any gps with bluetooth will do though yes? Jun 13 04:08:09 yes Jun 13 04:08:26 yeah, I'm going off to college this year (out of state) so the gps functionality should help me out a LOT Jun 13 04:08:30 I do geo data.. thst why 'm heree Jun 13 04:09:02 you need a gps receiver, not the full blown gps system Jun 13 04:09:35 geo data? Jun 13 04:09:40 please explain Jun 13 04:09:44 !! Jun 13 04:09:59 spatiall enabled data.. stuff with a place Jun 13 04:10:09 so.. my name.. my name + a place Jun 13 04:10:15 geo data Jun 13 04:10:24 not GIS.. just geo data Jun 13 04:10:42 still not really making much sense... but ok Jun 13 04:11:00 lol Jun 13 04:11:02 computers do a few fundmental things Jun 13 04:11:41 right now, its kinda new to put a place tag, or place fields, or place names, with stuff Jun 13 04:11:48 but, its coming like a freight train Jun 13 04:12:07 GIS is an old field.. thats different, though related Jun 13 04:12:07 so like, tagging places on gps systems? Jun 13 04:12:21 sure, or tagging it with "Portland" Jun 13 04:12:28 thats geo enough for me Jun 13 04:12:40 but I am a neo geo :-) Jun 13 04:13:20 random thought... could you use the gps maps to mark unsecured hotspots? Jun 13 04:13:47 the my frog.. is pretty common Jun 13 04:13:54 that Jun 13 04:14:10 I thought you could, just making sure Jun 13 04:14:16 otherwise known as "sharing" ;-) Jun 13 04:14:20 ;) Jun 13 04:15:34 can you access a "list" of other peoples tagged hotspots? like is there a collective of unsecured hotspot dots accesable through mapping software Jun 13 04:15:35 XD Jun 13 04:16:27 http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Geotagging Jun 13 04:16:36 sorry to be asking so many questions to you guys Jun 13 04:17:02 I just have a lot, as I've spent the last week studying and getting answers... and questions Jun 13 04:19:40 what's the most entertaining or usefull thing you guys have been able to do with your tablets? Jun 13 04:20:22 i can login to my laptop and kill offending process Jun 13 04:20:24 ;) Jun 13 04:20:37 also i can play mahjongg in the toilet Jun 13 04:20:43 lol Jun 13 04:21:01 and carry a bus map with me when i go into the unknown Jun 13 04:21:22 I think the maps will help me out tremendously Jun 13 04:21:32 get a big sd card Jun 13 04:21:37 8gb minimum Jun 13 04:21:38 :) Jun 13 04:22:01 I allready have a 2gb, but I was thinking of buying either an 8 or 16 Jun 13 04:22:18 I plan on using the device as a portable media player Jun 13 04:22:27 that would work too Jun 13 04:22:28 get myself a nice set of bt headphones Jun 13 04:22:35 oh yeah Jun 13 04:22:55 bt sound is a work in progress i think Jun 13 04:23:00 lol Jun 13 04:23:14 you mean for the tablets? Jun 13 04:23:38 i have a thoughts that there were problems with it Jun 13 04:23:42 i may be wrong too :) Jun 13 04:23:53 oh well, normal headphones are fine too Jun 13 04:23:54 lol Jun 13 04:24:59 I think it'd be awesome if you could get a little bt controller that had the main media controlls on it so you wouldn't have to pull out and unlock the n800, you could just push one little button Jun 13 04:25:52 if you can program a little i think it's possible Jun 13 04:25:57 or you can try google :) Jun 13 04:26:04 lol Jun 13 04:26:08 I can't program Jun 13 04:26:17 I would like to learn though, haha Jun 13 04:27:37 now's as good a time as any Jun 13 04:27:39 'night all Jun 13 04:27:44 nite nite Jun 13 04:29:11 Kot, do you blog at all with your n800? Jun 13 04:29:22 nope Jun 13 04:29:25 i don't blog Jun 13 04:29:37 I don't, but I've thought about it Jun 13 04:29:50 it has a web browser though Jun 13 04:29:51 ;) Jun 13 04:29:54 lol Jun 13 04:29:56 yeah Jun 13 04:30:51 do you think nokia could have envisioned just how much these devices have expanded and become more functional? Jun 13 04:31:07 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1028 Jun 13 04:31:10 "Power VR mbx support" Jun 13 04:31:17 kulve, yeah, i have seen it Jun 13 04:31:18 :/ Jun 13 04:31:33 kulve, the future is brighter, though. Jun 13 04:32:05 More info coming in the fall, according to Quim. Jun 13 04:32:33 well, we'll see it then.. Jun 13 04:33:02 LinuxTag rumblings are that they've been looking at it, but the drivers suck. Jun 13 04:34:14 it shouldn't be expensive then.. They could let the community to decide how much it suck.. Jun 13 04:34:56 kulve, yeah, it'd be nice to just release it with a disclaimer (this really sucks, no really it _REALLY_ sucks, it's totally unsupported, don't blame us). Jun 13 04:35:36 what's going on? Jun 13 04:36:52 ehh, I think I'm wanting to go to sleep now Jun 13 04:36:54 Freekyfrogy: open the url I pasted and the read the title and the last comment Jun 13 04:37:12 oh, ok. hold on a second Jun 13 04:37:31 I'm over OMAP2 anyway Jun 13 04:37:37 I'm ready for the future. Jun 13 04:37:48 Freekyfrogy: s,https,http, so you don't need to log in Jun 13 04:38:04 oh Jun 13 04:38:12 GeneralAntilles: omap3 is really nice but omap2 is still enough for many things.. Jun 13 04:38:21 Not enough for me. Jun 13 04:38:24 hey man, I'm going to bed. Jun 13 04:38:29 thank you all for your help Jun 13 04:38:31 and we wont ever be past the LCD controller issue without new hardware. Jun 13 04:38:47 that's true Jun 13 04:38:53 bye Jun 13 04:38:59 open up specs and let hackers write the drivers Jun 13 04:39:15 and squeeze everything it's capable of Jun 13 04:39:23 TI releases a lot of that stuff Jun 13 04:39:26 OMAP3 is faster, cooler and more open. Jun 13 04:39:27 otherwise it's just mswindowish Jun 13 04:39:47 GeneralAntilles: I've played 1280x720 video with omap3, so the bandwidth shouldn't be a problem there Jun 13 04:39:56 Hehe Jun 13 04:40:01 kulve, I hate you. :P Jun 13 04:40:03 mmm cant wait for OMAP3 Jun 13 04:40:12 That's the 3430? Jun 13 04:40:27 the thing i love the n800 for the most is mobile media device Jun 13 04:40:34 Yeah, that's tasty. Jun 13 04:41:01 I like that I can use it more or less like I use my computer. Jun 13 04:41:11 Watch TV or a movie, irc, browse the web Jun 13 04:41:31 with a decent video transfer bus, OMFG Jun 13 04:41:44 Yeah Jun 13 04:41:51 Just take whatever you've got and stick it on there. Jun 13 04:41:56 BAM! Jun 13 04:43:49 i might buy a pandora if it comes out first <_< Jun 13 04:49:48 the invitation to update ssh keys has a timeout? Jun 13 04:50:04 X-Fade_, need to re-upload my ssh keys Jun 13 04:59:55 omap2 / omap3 are cpus? Jun 13 05:00:10 whole systems Jun 13 05:00:18 google for: ti omap2 Jun 13 05:00:36 has anyone of you got a Nokia 770 -with you- ? Jun 13 05:02:12 febb, I do. Jun 13 05:02:18 oilinki, they're SoCs. Jun 13 05:02:27 KotCzarny: has it also put in the box and what is the price? Jun 13 05:02:42 o.o Jun 13 05:02:49 oilinki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omap Jun 13 05:02:58 That question is nonsensical. Jun 13 05:03:05 thanks. let me be very newbie :) Jun 13 05:03:07 i think you would have to buy 1000nds Jun 13 05:03:09 :) Jun 13 05:03:09 GeneralAntilles: Thanks for answering... would you happen to have the demo video that came with the original N 770 OS, the one about Discovery Channel ? Jun 13 05:03:18 febb, no. Jun 13 05:03:25 Just download the FIASCO image? Jun 13 05:03:54 General. :( oh well..thanks anyway... any idea on where that'd video could be downloaded / recovered ? Jun 13 05:04:18 [1:03am] Just download the FIASCO image? Jun 13 05:04:28 febb: flash os2006 etc Jun 13 05:04:29 :) Jun 13 05:04:35 or 2005 Jun 13 05:04:55 then copy somewhere Jun 13 05:05:27 Kot yeah... I guess it is within the firmware images... but, is there a way to "open" up that file and extract the video ? Jun 13 05:05:40 In linux. by the way. ! Jun 13 05:05:48 there is Jun 13 05:06:08 though you will be loading whole image into mem Jun 13 05:06:09 :> Jun 13 05:06:28 yeah... sort of like a virtual disk....kind of thing. Jun 13 05:07:01 omap seems to be 'slightly' overkill for what I'm looking for. do you have recommendation for small device which could run asterisk and and maybe openwrt Jun 13 05:07:17 linksys wrt54g Jun 13 05:07:18 :) Jun 13 05:07:23 similar to linksys wrt54g :) Jun 13 05:07:32 wrt54gs Jun 13 05:07:33 ;) Jun 13 05:07:35 oilinki, get yourself a low-end VIA board? Jun 13 05:07:40 or better wrt54gl Jun 13 05:07:44 wrt54g is slightly ugly :) Jun 13 05:07:52 oilinki: look for arm boards Jun 13 05:07:58 any pointers about some docs on how to open/mount firmware images on a linux box ? Jun 13 05:08:01 GeneralAntilles: what is VIA board? Jun 13 05:08:09 someone was mentioning them, forgot the name Jun 13 05:08:17 http://www.via.com.tw/en/index.jsp Jun 13 05:08:17 don't get x86. Jun 13 05:08:19 go arm. Jun 13 05:08:35 ah. http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/ Jun 13 05:08:49 oilinki: take the board from the wrt54g out of the case? :P Jun 13 05:08:50 soekris is nice, but still alittle pricey Jun 13 05:08:55 yes. arm might be better. Jun 13 05:09:06 http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7200 Jun 13 05:09:07 :) Jun 13 05:09:12 yes Jun 13 05:09:14 :) Jun 13 05:09:22 rm_you: yeah :) Jun 13 05:09:23 I like the ts-7800 Jun 13 05:09:37 well, that depends how much he can spend Jun 13 05:09:38 :) Jun 13 05:10:15 but yeah, 7800 is nicer :) Jun 13 05:10:18 I'm thinking of doing an packet for people who live aboard. well. maybe ATA + remote server would be good enought Jun 13 05:10:22 http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7800 Jun 13 05:10:46 voip solution that is Jun 13 05:11:09 oilinki: rm_you's solution is valid too, just get wrt54g board out Jun 13 05:11:10 :) Jun 13 05:12:38 KotCzarny: put in the white box and liitle apple logo on top of it and sell as iHomeCall :) Jun 13 05:12:43 :) Jun 13 05:12:59 could work Jun 13 05:13:00 ;) Jun 13 05:13:43 lol Jun 13 05:13:49 otoh, you can buy a bunch of 770s Jun 13 05:13:50 ;) Jun 13 05:14:03 and make a mesh network :> Jun 13 05:14:12 chumbys!!! Jun 13 05:14:19 thouse may mesh in theory Jun 13 05:14:25 *those Jun 13 05:14:44 heh Jun 13 05:14:44 :) Jun 13 05:14:46 heh Jun 13 05:14:55 image frames from hell? Jun 13 05:15:19 evil Jun 13 05:30:43 hmm, what olpc has done right is the dpad buttons Jun 13 05:31:02 http://laptop.org/img/specs_dimensions.jpg Jun 13 05:36:35 Nice! Jun 13 05:37:16 does it fold into a tablet mode? Jun 13 05:37:19 yes Jun 13 05:37:34 kb looks sucky though.. Jun 13 05:37:43 rubberish Jun 13 05:38:02 i know it has to be waterproof.. Jun 13 05:38:03 :) Jun 13 05:38:31 heh, IT MUST! Jun 13 05:38:56 My brian would mush using that thing, I need the snap Jun 13 05:39:02 :) Jun 13 05:39:05 *brain Jun 13 05:39:15 I like the n810 snappy sounds Jun 13 05:39:40 click Jun 13 05:39:41 click Jun 13 05:39:58 BOOM! Jun 13 05:40:01 :) im tempted to use them on my desktop, there must be a way Jun 13 05:40:05 * Navi dies Jun 13 05:40:13 record them Jun 13 05:40:35 hrm.. Jun 13 05:40:54 i used top have a few of the old IBM keyboards Jun 13 05:41:03 with track points? Jun 13 05:41:07 no Jun 13 05:41:14 i'm not interested then Jun 13 05:41:20 just the metal springs Jun 13 05:41:28 you could put them in the dishwasher Jun 13 05:41:33 to clean them :) Jun 13 05:42:06 i usually just use vacuum cleaner Jun 13 05:42:07 :) Jun 13 05:42:26 i could spill coffee and guiness all day on them Jun 13 05:42:45 if that's what you do.. Jun 13 05:43:12 not so much anymore.. Jun 13 05:45:15 I bought a Brando keyboard Jun 13 05:46:18 http://usb.brando.com.hk/prod_detail.php?prod_id=00039&dept_id=015&cat_id=034 Jun 13 05:46:50 hmm Jun 13 05:46:59 small and cheap Jun 13 05:47:15 not very touch typey though Jun 13 05:47:23 layout is a weird Jun 13 05:47:46 and has a windoze key. :/ Jun 13 05:47:58 My concern is that it has full qwerty and fits in my carryall bag Jun 13 05:48:07 mmk Jun 13 05:48:12 Oh, and a big Enter key Jun 13 05:48:34 yes Jun 13 05:48:39 that's a plus Jun 13 05:48:58 though i'm now trained to use single row height enter Jun 13 05:51:46 * johnx can't stand double height enter keys cause it messes with the location of \ | Jun 13 05:51:57 Yeh Jun 13 05:52:31 and also makes me end up with a half width backspace more often than not Jun 13 05:53:08 Well, a lot of condensed keyboards have half width backspace Jun 13 05:53:18 not thinkpads Jun 13 05:53:19 :) Jun 13 05:53:33 just drop those windoze keys and you are good Jun 13 05:55:56 not mine :D Jun 13 05:55:56 windows keys are great Jun 13 05:55:56 how can you be against having an extra modifier that you can do whatever you want with? Jun 13 05:56:19 johnx++ Jun 13 05:56:20 simple Jun 13 05:56:31 ever seen thinkpad's keyboard? Jun 13 05:56:32 :) Jun 13 05:56:54 http://palmsdhc.blogspot.com/ Jun 13 05:57:20 dekaritae: wrong channel Jun 13 05:57:20 :) Jun 13 05:57:34 Oh, maybe not Jun 13 05:57:44 even 770 can use sdhc cards Jun 13 05:57:45 :) Jun 13 05:59:04 did the guy finish making the SD adapters for the 770? Jun 13 05:59:21 it's really sad that this is technically possible but didn't actually come from palm... Jun 13 06:00:14 thought there was one already Jun 13 06:01:04 ds3, I think I saw a web page where someone was selling them... Jun 13 06:01:09 let me try to find it... Jun 13 06:01:32 Palm is long beyond any hope of recovery Jun 13 06:01:36 seem to recall there is a hack to pull out PRCs from the ROMs of another device Jun 13 06:01:54 lol Jun 13 06:02:00 This is just getting weirder http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand Jun 13 06:02:37 KotCzarny, I'm looking at a picture of a thinkpad keyboard. Why would you not want a windows key? what would fill the empty space, plastic? Jun 13 06:02:47 spacebar Jun 13 06:02:49 for example Jun 13 06:02:50 :) Jun 13 06:03:09 johnx, seems ridiculous to me Jun 13 06:03:13 I use my windows key a lot Jun 13 06:03:37 Makes a great meta key Jun 13 06:03:43 KotCzarny, if you have trouble missing the space bar...I don't even know what to say Jun 13 06:04:00 General: I know what it is about! Jun 13 06:04:04 Navi, exactly, I have all my window manager shortcuts bound to it...anything "window" related Jun 13 06:04:08 Yeh Jun 13 06:04:20 bah Jun 13 06:04:30 RST38h, good, because I'm just confused. Jun 13 06:04:39 W-e to fire up dmenu Jun 13 06:04:50 that's about all I use, actually Jun 13 06:04:59 General: Originally, this page has been created to describe the policies guiding the usage of the word "maemo" Jun 13 06:05:06 W-t for terminal, I guess Jun 13 06:05:30 General: It is Nokia's registered brandname, so they are naturally touchy about other people using it Jun 13 06:05:54 General: But why all the other crap has been added there - I have no idea. Jun 13 06:05:54 night Jun 13 06:06:28 RST38h, I was ready to discuss it when peter first posted his stuff, but now I don't know what to think. Jun 13 06:07:37 General: I would let it slide: it is not our job or even legal right to define a brand Jun 13 06:07:51 No, I know. Jun 13 06:07:53 Basically, Nokia marketing gyus should do it Jun 13 06:07:58 I'm just wondering what the hell is going on. ;) Jun 13 06:08:18 So what non-Nokia devices have people boot maemo Jun 13 06:08:33 and want to get to the end of it so I know what terms are for what and the correct usage, etc. Jun 13 06:08:37 qemu guys Jun 13 06:08:44 Not emulate Jun 13 06:09:05 The notion that there should be a single name to describe the platform is a correct one though Jun 13 06:09:38 I guess my only issue is that ITOS and maemo are two distinctly different things. Jun 13 06:10:14 Just define them as a single thing and be done with it =) Jun 13 06:11:07 But they're NOT a single thing. Jun 13 06:11:11 Dekaritae: Well, there is a native x86 version of Maemo Jun 13 06:11:12 hmm, with 3g iphone at 199$ there should be a bunch of crazed second hand iphones :> Jun 13 06:11:19 Nokia is pushing maemo as more of a community-driven open source thing Jun 13 06:11:19 You can define them to mean whatever you want Jun 13 06:11:23 ITOS is definitely not that. Jun 13 06:11:27 Call ITOS MaemoOS Jun 13 06:11:32 <_< Jun 13 06:11:44 Call tablets MaemoPads Jun 13 06:12:07 maemopads bring an imagery of women safety product Jun 13 06:12:10 * Navi pokes RST38h Jun 13 06:13:13 * RST38h sqeeks Jun 13 06:13:17 Dekaritae, zaurus, and beagleboard Jun 13 06:14:24 also, maemopad is already the name of an application... Jun 13 06:14:38 Woo Jun 13 06:14:45 which could be resolved Jun 13 06:15:06 wouldn't author be proud to give away that name to n. ? Jun 13 06:15:07 :> Jun 13 06:15:37 hmm...actually, did Nokia write the first version of maemo pad or was it 3rd party? Jun 13 06:16:24 http://repository.maemo.org/stable/1.0/applications/maemopad/ Jun 13 06:17:05 "Maintainer: Aaa Bbb " 0.o Jun 13 06:17:35 really? I know that guy! Jun 13 06:17:47 Cool! Can you introduce me? Jun 13 06:18:45 64 bytes from echo.ccc.com (198.137.187.6): icmp_seq=1 ttl=54 time=451 ms Jun 13 06:18:47 chinese Jun 13 06:18:48 :) Jun 13 06:19:10 * qwerty12 hates connecting to Chinese sites from here >.< Jun 13 06:19:12 well, maybe not Jun 13 06:19:16 MA Jun 13 06:19:17 :> Jun 13 06:19:27 massachusets Jun 13 06:19:35 or whatever it's spelled Jun 13 06:20:27 KotCzarny: the ping time looks like china anyway :) Jun 13 06:20:32 yup Jun 13 06:22:09 i had some 100ms from comcast in DC to my server in europe and called thad quite bad... :) Jun 13 06:22:29 i never get less than 120ms to .eu Jun 13 06:22:41 even with dsl set to fastpath Jun 13 06:22:59 Kot: double t Jun 13 06:23:09 rst: close enough Jun 13 06:23:57 and chinese probably manually inspect packets Jun 13 06:24:03 KotCzarny: well, at least it's usually quite stable (VoIP transatlantic calls saved me lots of money :) ) Jun 13 06:24:12 :) Jun 13 06:26:47 aquarius: what do you use to call landline phones in .eu? Jun 13 06:28:54 KotCzarny: I personally use ha-vel (ha-loo.ha-vel.cz) but they don't seem to have this part of site in english Jun 13 06:29:41 are they .cz only (landline wise) Jun 13 06:29:46 KotCzarny: and btw. it's not that simple to say "in the .eu", this is not US... Jun 13 06:30:22 afaik they don't offer services abroad if you mean this Jun 13 06:30:26 aquarius, i know, but generally .eu regulates most of the countries in the eu Jun 13 06:30:32 heh...that's ok, it varies between states in the US to some extent Jun 13 06:31:09 johnx: i think that it varies much more in the EU Jun 13 06:31:45 depends on the target ip Jun 13 06:31:46 :) Jun 13 06:32:10 aquarius-, that's true, but there are some companies that only provide local numbers in one state Jun 13 06:32:45 johnx: we actually have some companies that provide local numbers only in certain district Jun 13 06:33:33 but situation in .cz is quite special, we have the most ISPs in the EU (not per capita but total) Jun 13 06:33:35 hmm Jun 13 06:34:56 aquarius-, do you know the reason for that? Jun 13 06:35:02 freedom Jun 13 06:35:03 :> Jun 13 06:35:13 not freedom but incompetence Jun 13 06:35:24 can be interchanged ;) Jun 13 06:35:42 the formerly state-owned telecom company didn't offer broadband until some three years ago Jun 13 06:35:50 ouch Jun 13 06:35:58 i mean reasonable broadband for reasonable prices Jun 13 06:35:58 aquarius-, Does that make prices any cheaper (with so much being around)? Jun 13 06:36:26 qwerty12: don't know what are the prices in EU Jun 13 06:36:44 in .pl too high Jun 13 06:36:46 but you can get 1Mbps for some $20 Jun 13 06:37:00 kinda limited Jun 13 06:37:11 Hmm, I'm paying ~£15 for 8MB Jun 13 06:37:24 it was actually $10 some time ago but USD went down Jun 13 06:37:44 i remember when one dollar was 45czk back in 1990s Jun 13 06:37:52 Ultranet.ru sells 5Mbd unlimited (both ways) for $30 Jun 13 06:37:53 it's between 15 and 16 now Jun 13 06:38:08 0.5Mbd for $13 Jun 13 06:38:24 rst, what medium? Jun 13 06:38:31 cable/dsl/radio ? Jun 13 06:38:39 ether Jun 13 06:38:57 Old good 100BTX cable Jun 13 06:39:03 :) Jun 13 06:39:18 I am using per-MB plan though, the speeds are higher this way Jun 13 06:39:25 Comes to about the same amount of money though Jun 13 06:39:57 here we have mostly radios (2.4GHz and 5GHz outdoor) and ADSLs.. some operators provide unbundled ADSL (on lines not owned by o2 - the former state-owned telecom company) Jun 13 06:40:09 For internal wiring they use fiber. There are still some WiFi links, but it is mostly fiber now Jun 13 06:40:53 guys help me Jun 13 06:41:00 aquarius: no communal networks in .cz? Jun 13 06:41:26 how can i move map folder for maemo mapper from device m to mmc? Jun 13 06:41:46 RST38h: you mean community networks? well, yes. czfree.net - probably one of the biggest networks in the area Jun 13 06:42:16 i moved it from device memory to mmc but the app maemo mapper can't find and read it? what can i do? Jun 13 06:43:19 aquarius: I mean guys who will connect you to internet by ethernet for a small fee? Jun 13 06:43:51 RST38h: czfree.net is actually more like a community network association Jun 13 06:43:54 Italodance, in maemo mapper you need to tell it where to find the files Jun 13 06:43:57 aquarius: they are usually more reliable than DSL Jun 13 06:44:05 aquarius: oh, then it is not the same Jun 13 06:44:28 RST38h: yes, i worked for one of these but the price of the ethernet connection is actually comparable to DSL Jun 13 06:45:01 johnx yes but where ? Jun 13 06:45:03 it's a bit faster and also almost symmetrical Jun 13 06:45:26 johnx i couldn't find this option Jun 13 06:45:51 I don't have maemo mapper open right now Jun 13 06:46:04 oh Jun 13 06:46:06 look in the maps menu Jun 13 06:46:14 maybe map repositories or something? manage maps? Jun 13 06:46:16 just look around Jun 13 06:46:59 Italodance, maemo mapper has excellent help. Jun 13 06:48:40 johnx yes on map repositories thank and new map downloads will save on mmc now? Jun 13 06:48:47 yes Jun 13 06:48:55 you have to change it for all repositories Jun 13 06:49:31 where i can find a yuy2 video file? Jun 13 06:49:45 mencode one? Jun 13 06:50:06 http://maemo.org/downloads/ is down (for me at least anyway) :/ Jun 13 06:50:20 johnx yes Jun 13 06:50:42 KotCzarny:Good idea. can you give me the command? Jun 13 06:50:49 erm Jun 13 06:50:54 :/ Jun 13 06:51:00 0.o Jun 13 06:51:02 probably raw codec and proper colorspace as a subparam Jun 13 06:53:18 qwerty12, me too Jun 13 06:53:20 http://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/mpeg2-gt-raw-avi-via-command-line-t333754.html Jun 13 06:53:59 mencoder input.mpg -ovc raw -oac pcm -vf format=yuy2 -o output.avi Jun 13 06:54:01 etc Jun 13 06:54:57 KotCzarny: Thanks Jun 13 06:55:05 next time use google Jun 13 06:55:06 :) Jun 13 06:55:24 http://www.google.com/search?as_q=mencoder+yuy2 Jun 13 06:55:25 ;) Jun 13 06:55:49 I'd have suggested man mencoder and be done with it. Jun 13 06:56:03 nah Jun 13 06:56:10 google is better Jun 13 06:56:12 and faster Jun 13 06:56:20 KotCzarny::) Jun 13 06:56:32 manual is sequential Jun 13 06:56:34 But I can type man faster :P Jun 13 06:56:38 google is random access Jun 13 06:56:59 but you search/read manual slower :P Jun 13 06:57:32 True, google is faster, it's just easier on my side to suggest man mencoder :p Jun 13 06:57:54 qwerty12: thx for the tip, next answer for you will be man Jun 13 06:57:55 ;) Jun 13 06:58:16 just as fast to get a man page up ... if you have a windows key: win+n for a new terminal, man mencoder Jun 13 06:58:27 NOOOOO, I need my KotCzarny's answers back! :P Jun 13 06:58:47 muahahha! Jun 13 06:58:59 bow to my answers! Jun 13 06:59:05 Neva! Jun 13 06:59:09 ok Jun 13 06:59:10 ;) Jun 13 06:59:17 (Well, not now anyway, I gtg :P) Jun 13 06:59:18 bye Jun 13 07:06:05 "Maemo" just looks so wrong. :\ Jun 13 07:08:11 Hi ! Jun 13 07:08:18 hi Khertan Jun 13 07:08:40 GeneralAntilles, the maemo logo doesn't have a capitalized M... Jun 13 07:09:22 my n810 come back from the nokia repair center but i still have the same problem Jun 13 07:09:31 Yeah, I know. Check the Maemo brand wiki page. Jun 13 07:09:42 each time i active swap ... pdflush eat all cpu ... a freeze it ... Jun 13 07:09:57 s/a/freeze Jun 13 07:10:29 for me it s an hardware memory problem ... but they said that memory work well Jun 13 07:10:43 but i don't know why it s happen Jun 13 07:10:50 someone have an idea ? Jun 13 07:10:54 does dmesg say anything interesting? Jun 13 07:11:48 dmesg is slow on maemo ? Jun 13 07:12:03 probably just screen updates Jun 13 07:12:06 or does it is again a freeze due to pdflush ? Jun 13 07:12:41 GAN800: that page is only going to get more interesting later :) Jun 13 07:12:52 Great Jun 13 07:13:12 gui is frozen so i don't think it s a screen update Jun 13 07:13:26 (i can't switch application) Jun 13 07:13:38 ok, that sounds bad Jun 13 07:13:57 I'm guessing they didn't enable swap when they tested it Jun 13 07:14:22 johnx / GAN800: can one of you explain the italics in http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand Jun 13 07:14:26 under " Mapper for Maemo" Jun 13 07:14:32 p1, p2, p3 = italics Jun 13 07:14:38 p4 = plain Jun 13 07:14:45 p5, p6 = italics Jun 13 07:14:53 That was my comment that qgil intesperced his reply into. Jun 13 07:15:01 or may be p6 is plain Jun 13 07:15:05 either way, very very confusing Jun 13 07:15:13 johnx > hum ... it s seems to be the same problem with swap unactivated now ... :( Jun 13 07:15:15 Yeah, I agree. Jun 13 07:15:41 but qgil interspersed twice, w/ different formats, no? Jun 13 07:16:03 Khertan, maybe reflash, install ssh, login via ssh, turn on swap and run dmesg from ssh before it gets bad Jun 13 07:16:05 I switched to using italicized text for comments not on talk pages Jun 13 07:16:07 That's just a mess Jun 13 07:16:17 johnx> i ll try that Jun 13 07:16:37 once i ll come back to home Jun 13 07:16:49 GeneralAntilles: can you guys use | prefixes instead? Jun 13 07:16:51 | this is me Jun 13 07:16:56 i don't have a micro usb cable with me Jun 13 07:16:58 | | this is you interspersed Jun 13 07:16:59 One sec Jun 13 07:17:01 | | -- you Jun 13 07:17:04 | this is still me Jun 13 07:17:07 | -- me Jun 13 07:17:09 (this is a stupid idea this micro usb !) Jun 13 07:17:15 Jun 13 07:17:18 | this is you Jun 13 07:17:20 | -- you Jun 13 07:17:34 timely, fail? Jun 13 07:17:36 :) Jun 13 07:17:45 Khertan: yeah, because everyone likes carrying extra power cables Jun 13 07:18:10 it s like the powerbook air ... Jun 13 07:18:11 but...you still *do* need an extra power cable Jun 13 07:18:41 It's hard to address a comment point-by-point in mediawiki. Jun 13 07:18:44 have you seen the fake ads where someone add all the necessary cable in the letter ? :) Jun 13 07:18:52 johnx: no, i steal someone's laptop Jun 13 07:18:57 and they need an extra battery :) Jun 13 07:19:09 hmm, n810 charges over micro usb? Jun 13 07:19:21 johnx > no if u use device that doesn't need to be charged every hours ... Jun 13 07:19:27 johnx > no Jun 13 07:19:29 GeneralAntilles: can you really not use | | things? Jun 13 07:19:46 http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Task:Maemo_brand Jun 13 07:19:54 It shouldn't be on the main page anyway at this point. Jun 13 07:20:09 ok, but... Jun 13 07:20:15 that still doesn't help readability Jun 13 07:20:23 is it impossible to get vertical bars ? Jun 13 07:20:27 or box nesting? Jun 13 07:21:08

? Jun 13 07:21:17 in dmesg i see many 'setting voltage 'VMMC' to 3000 mV and 'slide open' ... but nothing interesting Jun 13 07:21:40 KotCzarny: this is wiki, i.e., junk. not html + css :) Jun 13 07:21:47 * timely doesn't like wikis at all :) Jun 13 07:21:48 ahm Jun 13 07:22:00 You could do css, of course. Jun 13 07:22:09 But then you have to train everybody to use it when commenting. Jun 13 07:22:20 no thanks Jun 13 07:22:38 html or css in the hands of people who can barely use wikis = epic fail Jun 13 07:22:47 instead of people who can barely use wikis which derives from Jun 13 07:22:49 That's what templates are for. Jun 13 07:22:49 wikis. Jun 13 07:22:51 wikis = fail Jun 13 07:22:57 Hardly Jun 13 07:23:06 johnx > could it be my external sd card that make problem ? Jun 13 07:23:28 Khertan, what does it have on it? Jun 13 07:23:34 but swap is on internal Jun 13 07:23:45 hrm, is Maemo supposed to be initial caps? Jun 13 07:23:53 timely, see that page. Jun 13 07:23:54 nothing else than my python source code ... but nothing is exec on it ... Jun 13 07:23:57 Mozilla had that property, and i tried to tell maemo.org that it should too Jun 13 07:23:58 At this point, I don't have a goddamn clue. Jun 13 07:24:07 but my memory of the previous statement (not this new revised series) Jun 13 07:24:21 was that they (for reasons that made no sense to me) insisted on maemo Jun 13 07:24:32 In the past, maemo was supposed to be lowercase. Jun 13 07:24:32 Khertan, some questions: do you have / symlinked under /home/user/MyDocs? Does your external card have an ext2/3 fs with *any* symlinks on it? Jun 13 07:24:34 Now, I dunno. Jun 13 07:24:38 ok Jun 13 07:25:16 GAN800: /join GAN800 Jun 13 07:25:16 I'm kinda wishing Quim and Peter would've come up with a slightly more fleshed-out plan before dumping this. Jun 13 07:26:57 johnx> no symlink on -R /home/user/* Jun 13 07:27:21 just checking Jun 13 07:27:25 and the sd card is in FAT Jun 13 07:27:33 i ll look again ... Jun 13 07:28:18 morning Jun 13 07:28:19 GeneralAntilles: Well, it is a wiki :) Jun 13 07:28:34 no i'm sure ... i ve rm all folder ... Jun 13 07:28:41 X-Fade_> Hi ... Jun 13 07:29:34 X-Fade_, it's nice to see things a bit more out in the open I suppose, but still. Jun 13 07:29:42 Khertan: Hi. Jun 13 07:30:02 X-Fade_ > i ve send a package yesterday made and send with pypackager and i get no return (no mail) ... it s seem's to not appear too on repository extras ... is it normal ? Jun 13 07:30:07 GeneralAntilles: You wanted to be involved and in the know. Now you are, right? Jun 13 07:30:26 X-Fade_ > maybe there are errors ... :) Jun 13 07:30:26 Khertan: Regular extras upload or autobuilder? Jun 13 07:30:43 X-Fade_, not as far as I'm able to tell. I don't really know what's actually going on. :P Jun 13 07:30:47 not really regular ... but regular using pypackager :) Jun 13 07:30:51 ssh it ... Jun 13 07:31:06 GeneralAntilles: Ask them? :) Wiki has talk pages, you know ;) Jun 13 07:31:37 \note try autobuilder ! Jun 13 07:31:41 oups ;) Jun 13 07:31:58 Peter is Quim's manager btw, maybe that helps you understand it a bit more? Jun 13 07:32:29 Oh really? Jun 13 07:32:46 Is he new? Kinda showed up out of nowhere. Jun 13 07:33:01 Khertan: The regular upload to extras has no mail function. Jun 13 07:33:26 ah so i ve made a mix with a feature of the autobuilder :) sorry :) Jun 13 07:33:40 GeneralAntilles: I've met him in Helsinki in Februari and in Berlin. So he is around at least since Feb. Jun 13 07:33:48 johnx > i think i ve found something Jun 13 07:33:55 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/05/AR2008060501958.html Jun 13 07:33:56 LOL Jun 13 07:34:09 activating omweather make pdflush eating 100% cpu Jun 13 07:34:15 for 10s Jun 13 07:34:19 aaah Jun 13 07:35:07 and moving the applet made the same thing Jun 13 07:36:05 but i m not the only one to use it Jun 13 07:36:26 so it could be not a problem with the applet Jun 13 07:37:47 Khertan, hang on, I'll see if it has a small effect on my system Jun 13 07:38:14 X-Fade_, invitation to update ssh keys times out? Jun 13 07:38:53 Khertan, doesn't seem to cause much CPU usage at all by pdflush Jun 13 07:39:28 is their a way to see live writing on disk ? Jun 13 07:39:58 i think it s just a border effect made by something else Jun 13 07:40:57 it would be nice to have atop compiled for the tablet Jun 13 07:44:35 johnx> no other idea ? :) Jun 13 07:44:52 atop would let you see a lot more about stats Jun 13 07:45:06 I'm looking at compiling it, but my scratchbox setup seems to be not working right now :/ Jun 13 07:45:46 if you can post a dmesg log somewhere that would be great though Jun 13 07:47:38 if i package inotify-tools, which repo should i add it to, or how should i make it available? Jun 13 07:48:47 extras-devel would be nice, and then after it gets some testing, move to extras Jun 13 07:50:30 johnx, got an automated e-mail (workflow 0.7), will follow suit Jun 13 07:51:19 johnx > i ll do it ... Jun 13 07:52:47 woo! I think my last debian update got me some of the incompatibility problems ubuntu users are having with scratchbox... Jun 13 07:54:20 cool Jun 13 07:54:29 welcome to debian Jun 13 07:54:42 yeah, I've played this game before :) Jun 13 07:55:05 at least in debian it's easy enough to fix things when they break...ubuntu was driving me insane Jun 13 07:55:06 are you good at it? Jun 13 07:55:20 i've found the best solution is VMware images made by someone else Jun 13 07:55:23 been playing for 10 years now, in another life I was a sysadmin Jun 13 07:56:03 i've mostly punted on debian.. did you read my garden of eden blog entry? Jun 13 07:56:08 johnx > once i be able to do thing between pdflush freeze Jun 13 07:56:25 timely, I did. They made a mistake, they owned up and fixed it Jun 13 07:57:28 johnx: yeah, see ... adam eventually owned up Jun 13 07:57:33 but he was still kicked out of eden Jun 13 07:57:41 yeah, well, I'm not god Jun 13 07:57:53 and we will never return (well, i'm not going to worry about the end of days Jun 13 07:58:06 I read the old testament, but I don't go in for that kind of thing... Jun 13 07:58:08 that's a problem that is really way too explosive) Jun 13 08:01:14 timely, your choice I guess. They're only human...and I bet that guy doesn't make the same mistake twice Jun 13 08:01:34 johnx> dmesg doesn't display message since the boot Jun 13 08:01:38 http://pastebin.com/ma43db74 Jun 13 08:01:59 yeah, it's buffer must be too small Jun 13 08:02:38 i ll reboot the n810 ... and try again a dmesg Jun 13 08:02:55 yeah, I don't see where it added swap Jun 13 08:03:07 that would be my bet for where something interesting might happen Jun 13 08:03:29 swap is desactivated now ... but problem still here Jun 13 08:03:41 i ll activate it again and reboot again :) Jun 13 08:04:08 boot take at least 5min Jun 13 08:04:09 did the problem appear before swapon or only after? Jun 13 08:04:31 i ve always use swapon ... Jun 13 08:04:42 so it s appear with swapon :) Jun 13 08:05:02 but now with swap off it s still here Jun 13 08:05:03 and it stays after you turn off swap Jun 13 08:05:08 yes Jun 13 08:05:14 but before you turned on swap for the first time it was ok? Jun 13 08:05:26 but really, 5 minutes is a pretty insane boot time Jun 13 08:06:48 yes it was ok in february 2008 :) Jun 13 08:06:56 but since i ve flash it :) Jun 13 08:07:14 this time it s come back from the nokia repair center ... Jun 13 08:07:20 they have flashed it ... Jun 13 08:07:26 swap was activated ... Jun 13 08:07:37 and during 24 hours i ve no problems ... Jun 13 08:07:55 (i ven't restore applications, nor parameters) Jun 13 08:08:00 interesting Jun 13 08:08:17 did you check that the internal 2GB was partitioned right? Jun 13 08:08:49 i ve formatted it ... after seeing the problem agani Jun 13 08:08:51 again Jun 13 08:09:04 formatted from the file manager on nokia Jun 13 08:09:09 can you run sfdisk -l as root? Jun 13 08:09:47 done Jun 13 08:09:53 what you want to know ? Jun 13 08:10:51 Warning partiotion table looks like it was made for C/H/S=*/73/33 (instead of 186576/4/16) Jun 13 08:11:05 make sure that #cyls for /dev/mmcblk0p1 is *not bigger* than the Disk /dev/mmcblk0: n cylinders at the top Jun 13 08:11:24 on /dev/mmcblk1 Jun 13 08:11:49 errr...the internal card, so mmcblk0 Jun 13 08:12:37 the 2gb one Jun 13 08:12:39 :) Jun 13 08:14:11 ? Jun 13 08:14:19 -> /dev/mmcblk0 : 61440 cylinders Jun 13 08:14:35 and partition on it? Jun 13 08:14:37 -> /dev/mmcblk0p1 : 61439 cylinders Jun 13 08:14:48 looks ok Jun 13 08:14:50 ok, that's right Jun 13 08:14:57 good to rule that out Jun 13 08:17:08 but there is problem with the other Jun 13 08:17:20 http://pastebin.com/m100563ec Jun 13 08:18:04 interesting Jun 13 08:18:22 probably formatted by some dumb device Jun 13 08:18:23 :) Jun 13 08:18:30 like the manufacturer :) Jun 13 08:18:40 like maemo ... Jun 13 08:18:48 I would try and test as much as possible without that card in the system...but a lot of times partitioning doesn't really matter Jun 13 08:18:51 nope Jun 13 08:18:58 i always format card before using it with my device Jun 13 08:19:04 partition could be untouched since factory format Jun 13 08:19:10 only fs recreated Jun 13 08:19:29 i'm talking about partition table, not actual filesystem format Jun 13 08:19:35 and dmesg : http://pastebin.com/m3eef9490 Jun 13 08:20:15 what's the problem anyway? Jun 13 08:20:31 without the sdcard pdflush do the same thing Jun 13 08:20:46 KotCzarny > pdflush eat all cpu ... Jun 13 08:20:53 freezing totally the device Jun 13 08:21:07 and boot take between 5 to 15 min ... Jun 13 08:21:16 swap can't be used Jun 13 08:21:17 try without sd card? Jun 13 08:21:22 done Jun 13 08:21:28 and? Jun 13 08:21:32 same thing Jun 13 08:21:39 reboot first Jun 13 08:21:42 just the internal that i can't remove Jun 13 08:21:56 oh no ... 15 min again ? :) Jun 13 08:22:09 oh, yes, you can remove it, but that will wipe data on it :) Jun 13 08:22:38 i ve format it already Jun 13 08:22:52 there is nothing on it ... only swap when i activate it Jun 13 08:24:23 try: time (dd /removeme bs=1M count=20 && sync) Jun 13 08:24:32 and tell me how long it took Jun 13 08:24:43 (as root) Jun 13 08:24:57 or change /removeme to /home/user/removeme and run as user Jun 13 08:25:24 Hey guys, we've talked about a separate diablo extras repository before. But do you think that we should with an empty diablo repo or should we copy everything from chinook and jumpstart it that way? Jun 13 08:25:56 s/should with/should start with/ Jun 13 08:25:57 X-Fade_ meant: Hey guys, we've talked about a separate diablo extras repository before. But do you think that we should start with an empty diablo repo or should we copy everything from chinook and jumpstart it that way? Jun 13 08:26:18 X-Fade_: rebuild everything Jun 13 08:26:35 x-fade: depends Jun 13 08:26:39 hrw: Hmm yeah, that is option 3 ;) Jun 13 08:26:57 is chinook + packages from diablo stable? Jun 13 08:27:00 X-Fade_: diablo will have few libs newer so use them Jun 13 08:28:56 hrw: Yeah, so we should treat it as not being compatible with chinook. Jun 13 08:29:07 otoh when other distros release new version, (12.0 -> 12.1) they provide complete tree Jun 13 08:29:21 KotCzarny: Yeah, but they have sources :) Jun 13 08:29:24 :) Jun 13 08:29:43 We only have sources for packages uploaded by developers them selves. Jun 13 08:29:54 Or if they used the autobuilder Jun 13 08:30:17 wait, are we talking about user perspective or nokia's one? Jun 13 08:30:26 bergie: Yesterday morning. Jun 13 08:30:29 i thought nokia have sources too Jun 13 08:30:29 :) Jun 13 08:30:43 *has Jun 13 08:30:52 KotCzarny: I'm talking about extras here. Jun 13 08:30:58 Which is the community repo. Jun 13 08:31:01 ahm Jun 13 08:31:03 sorry Jun 13 08:31:14 i though you are talking about diablo :) Jun 13 08:31:18 KotCzarny: I'm sure Nokia will do their thing in their repos. Jun 13 08:31:30 KotCzarny: Yeah, but we need a repo too for diablo, you know ;) Jun 13 08:31:33 KotCzarny > syntax error :) Jun 13 08:31:37 i think it's up to authors to provide updated packages Jun 13 08:31:45 KotCzarny > unexpected ")" Jun 13 08:31:46 if they are incompatible with new release Jun 13 08:31:59 Yeah, I'm leaning towards that too. Jun 13 08:32:43 most distros have a symlink for 'current' Jun 13 08:32:49 But that would mean that on release of diablo, you don't have any extras software. Until the developers upload their new versions. Jun 13 08:33:19 simply copying the whole tree won't help too Jun 13 08:33:35 X-Fade_: can't someone have a device running diablo which tries to install a package from chinook Jun 13 08:33:36 you don't know if packages from chinook are ok with newer libs Jun 13 08:33:36 X-Fade_, so, just adding extras-chinook won't be an option? Jun 13 08:33:49 KotCzarny > 1.76s Jun 13 08:33:50 and if it works, it says it can go to diablo, and if it fails, it makes a note Jun 13 08:33:58 and then it reflashes and tries the next package :) Jun 13 08:34:24 timely: Well, I don't have diablo, so that person wouldn't be me ;) Jun 13 08:34:42 khertan: now remove that file and try with /media/mmc2/removeme Jun 13 08:34:44 X-Fade_: if we can setup autobuilders, we should be able to setup autotesters :) Jun 13 08:34:49 KotCzarny > and 6 s on /media/mmc2 Jun 13 08:34:57 johnx: That really depends on if it is 100% compatible. Jun 13 08:35:07 khertan: and mmc1? Jun 13 08:35:09 timely: Sure, let's target Fremantle for that :) Jun 13 08:35:22 hmm Jun 13 08:35:23 timely: You can always join the project if you want :D Jun 13 08:35:27 no :) Jun 13 08:35:35 isn't one of the requirements for authors on extras to provide source too? Jun 13 08:35:40 be happy i'm adding categories :) Jun 13 08:36:01 so autorebuild should be possible Jun 13 08:36:09 and 4s on mmc1 Jun 13 08:36:27 khertan: so it's not a problem with the flash themselves Jun 13 08:36:30 KotCzarny: That isn't enforced at the moment. Jun 13 08:36:44 KotCzarny > so what it could be ... Jun 13 08:37:05 pdflush is a sync process ? no ? Jun 13 08:37:17 khertan: think of strange, memory hungry apps you have installed Jun 13 08:37:31 nothing eat memory ... Jun 13 08:37:33 that could run as early as on startup Jun 13 08:37:54 i don't see what could run on startup Jun 13 08:38:32 do you have custom kernel? Jun 13 08:38:35 no Jun 13 08:38:47 openssh Jun 13 08:38:53 pypackager Jun 13 08:38:58 pygtkeditor Jun 13 08:38:58 x-fade: i think we need 'maemo-current' symlink Jun 13 08:39:02 python2.5 Jun 13 08:39:07 i mean extras-current Jun 13 08:39:27 KotCzarny: That doesn't work if we are not compatible between versions. Jun 13 08:39:32 that will point to extras-chinook, then extras-diablo Jun 13 08:39:49 and each time new extras tree will start empty Jun 13 08:40:11 that way users can have one extras repo Jun 13 08:40:27 or they can keep their old Jun 13 08:40:32 if they choose not to upgrade Jun 13 08:40:57 symlinks are evil :) Jun 13 08:41:06 well Jun 13 08:41:23 wisely used, are not Jun 13 08:41:24 :) Jun 13 08:41:55 make extras-bora, extras-chinook, extras-diablo Jun 13 08:42:15 and a symlink extras-current pointing to current version Jun 13 08:43:08 so... is the problem that packages don't have proper max vers or conflitcs? Jun 13 08:43:21 could be Jun 13 08:43:32 that needs testing Jun 13 08:43:43 authors rarely test on anything else that they have installed Jun 13 08:43:44 :) Jun 13 08:43:51 *than Jun 13 08:44:36 so another option is to keep it as it is and hope for .deb system to resolve it Jun 13 08:44:37 :> Jun 13 08:45:11 so... what you should do is go the firefox way Jun 13 08:45:29 and enforce max versions and offer to rebuild max version limits as testing improves Jun 13 08:45:36 :) Jun 13 08:45:44 too bad that probably can't be done w/ .deb :) Jun 13 08:48:19 RRRRRAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH locate pdflush Jun 13 08:48:30 rm -rf pdflush !!!!! Jun 13 08:48:42 pdflush is kernel process Jun 13 08:49:19 Removing it would disable flash writes Jun 13 08:49:22 Would that be fun? Jun 13 08:49:32 kiosk mode tablet Jun 13 08:49:33 :) Jun 13 08:49:49 timely: Do you think you are ready for the planet ;) Jun 13 08:50:00 timely: I'll add you in a few minutes. Jun 13 08:52:13 X-Fade_: the feed is empty Jun 13 08:52:31 if you want to read the pending one, add .1 to the url in your local reader Jun 13 08:52:46 feed him? Jun 13 08:52:47 :) Jun 13 08:53:00 X-Fade_: anyway, i'm not flipping the switch until both mozilla and maemo pick up my feed Jun 13 08:53:06 and i have no idea what will happen Jun 13 08:53:13 timely: I have read some articles last night. Jun 13 08:53:16 KotCzarny > maybe i should make my own custom kernel ... Jun 13 08:53:23 oh right, ok then :) Jun 13 08:53:38 * timely goes to worry about other things Jun 13 08:53:45 i might or might not flip the switch today Jun 13 08:53:52 i'd like to. since today is a friday Jun 13 08:53:53 * X-Fade_ thinks timely deserves a holiday ;) Jun 13 08:54:01 khertan: how about clean reflash and not restoring backup for a test? Jun 13 08:54:57 because i ve already do it ... without restoring backup Jun 13 08:55:09 and 2 days after ... same problem Jun 13 08:55:26 after a reflash problem disapear for ... 24 to 48 hours ... Jun 13 08:55:32 and then come back again ... Jun 13 08:55:47 what do you do that can affect it? Jun 13 08:55:55 all i can think of is some bad block Jun 13 08:55:57 somewhere Jun 13 08:56:17 there is not ... (it s what say nokia repair center) Jun 13 08:56:26 can be on sd card as well Jun 13 08:56:34 or that 2gb flash Jun 13 08:56:41 or internal flash Jun 13 08:57:00 i ve tryed this morning without sd ... but same problem appears Jun 13 08:57:19 one thing i can suggest is booting from sd card Jun 13 08:57:20 :) Jun 13 08:57:30 i'm not the only one from what i see on google ... Jun 13 08:57:40 ie. cloning to sd Jun 13 08:57:54 i think there is something, maybe a app in a repository that create this Jun 13 08:58:11 KotCzarny > what the purpose to clone it on sd ? Jun 13 08:58:11 i bet on badblock somewhere Jun 13 08:58:20 ah ... Jun 13 08:58:24 so when you boot from sd card Jun 13 08:58:34 you won't be using n810 flash and 2gb flash Jun 13 08:58:42 only that on external sd Jun 13 08:58:59 why not ... Jun 13 08:59:02 i ll try ... Jun 13 08:59:31 there is no tool to check memory on maemo ? Jun 13 08:59:31 don't forget to disable that 2gb flash (i think it's mounted as mmc2 Jun 13 08:59:49 i ll can do this too :) Jun 13 08:59:50 you can try some generic c based tool Jun 13 09:00:01 or write one in php Jun 13 09:00:02 :> Jun 13 09:00:22 hum ... Jun 13 09:00:28 php ... lol Jun 13 09:00:56 may be slower, but it's a one time venue Jun 13 09:00:57 it s more simple to launch C# runtime ... it ll eat up all memory at launch Jun 13 09:01:07 :) Jun 13 09:01:27 khertan dont you dare infect our maemo devices with c# :P Jun 13 09:01:31 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2615 Jun 13 09:01:43 hi lcuk Jun 13 09:01:47 lcuk > no of course not ... it was a joke Jun 13 09:01:50 morning :) Jun 13 09:01:56 * lcuk phew Jun 13 09:02:01 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2615 <<< vote vote vote please :) Jun 13 09:02:12 why vote if i don't experience this bug Jun 13 09:02:13 :) Jun 13 09:02:26 khertan :) might i thank you personally by the way, without your pygtkeditor i wouldn't have been able to hack and code whilst sat at linuxtag :) Jun 13 09:03:19 im using it for my c projects, but i still think it feels slow, if you've seen the video of mine you would see how i want to work with text documents Jun 13 09:03:39 hi kot :) Jun 13 09:05:38 * lcuk wants the world to edit documents smoothly but for now still prefers highlighting editor over speed Jun 13 09:05:49 :) Jun 13 09:05:58 i don't like highlighting Jun 13 09:06:03 i turn it off in mcedit Jun 13 09:06:35 lcuk, take vim, you get both! Jun 13 09:06:38 |> 'david whittaker - golden axe'; Jun 13 09:06:41 lol Jun 13 09:06:42 whoo-hoo Jun 13 09:07:34 anyway, i will call back later i was just grabbing some *cough* vb code from home Jun 13 09:07:40 lcuk > i ven't see Jun 13 09:07:46 maybe i should ... Jun 13 09:07:48 where is it ? Jun 13 09:08:00 KotCzarny, would you find him link please :) Jun 13 09:08:02 back later Jun 13 09:08:24 huh? Jun 13 09:08:34 which one? Jun 13 09:14:02 Khertan, this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI Jun 13 09:14:10 that one kot, anyway going now properly Jun 13 09:14:23 back at or after lunch or tonight \o Jun 13 09:14:30 :) Jun 13 09:20:01 it s funny ... is it usefull ? Jun 13 09:20:05 yes Jun 13 09:20:15 text reader, note taker Jun 13 09:20:40 looks and feels great Jun 13 09:21:06 i don't doubt ... Jun 13 09:21:23 quitetly plotting to detronize canola, fbreader, maemopad and mtpaint Jun 13 09:21:24 :) Jun 13 09:21:28 *quietly Jun 13 09:21:32 i would say is it really usable on the n8x0 touchscren Jun 13 09:21:44 s/touchscren/touchsreen Jun 13 09:21:48 s/touchscren/touchscreen Jun 13 09:22:41 but yes adding this in pygtkeditor would be i think a good thing Jun 13 09:22:54 you mean kinetic scrolling? Jun 13 09:23:07 yes ... Jun 13 09:23:16 :) Jun 13 09:23:24 X-Fade_: ok... the blog's live :) Jun 13 09:23:41 bloggenstein is alive! Jun 13 09:24:08 timely: I still need to get coffee and then enable your blog :) Jun 13 09:27:16 X-Fade_ > i ve uploaded a package nammed python2.5-gtksourceview in extras yesterday ... can i borring you by asking why it is not in the repository ? Jun 13 09:31:15 Khertan: ok, but it can take a while. Jun 13 09:36:53 Khertan: This package? http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/p/python2.5-pygtksourceview/ Jun 13 09:36:59 Khertan: Seems fine? Jun 13 09:41:36 GAN800: ping? Jun 13 09:42:19 Hi Jun 13 09:43:03 X-Fade_, pong. Jun 13 09:43:11 GeneralAntilles: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo2midgard-discussion/2008-June/000360.html I think you should chime in too ;) Jun 13 09:44:36 I sent an email to lardman and Jaffa about it about an hour ago. Jun 13 09:44:40 Not sure yet. ;) Jun 13 09:46:13 Hehe :) Jun 13 09:57:53 X-Fade_ > lol sorry ... i need to change my glasses Jun 13 10:02:16 ~hail telnet in fanoush's initfs Jun 13 10:02:17 * infobot bows down to telnet in fanoush's initfs and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" Jun 13 10:03:32 any idea why "dd if=/dev/mtdblock4 of=/mnt/rootfs.jffs2" on n810 i/o errors after 207.5MB? I am doing it from initfs telnet session Jun 13 10:03:54 hmm Jun 13 10:03:56 interesting Jun 13 10:04:01 i had a badblock too Jun 13 10:04:09 let me check at which mb Jun 13 10:04:24 maybe some kind of protection? Jun 13 10:04:27 *grins* Jun 13 10:04:36 rather not protection Jun 13 10:06:36 btw - I am feeling strange... "telnet 192.168.0.215" - it is soo 90s... Jun 13 10:07:13 hrw: hah. not really Jun 13 10:07:13 :) Jun 13 10:07:42 Sure, many dvices support ssh these days, but generally you need to connect to their telnet or seril port to *enable* that... Jun 13 10:07:51 hrw, use netcat, it is much more this millenium Jun 13 10:08:13 inz: indeed! And it's even usually 8-bit clean Jun 13 10:08:14 you mean more 1970s Jun 13 10:08:36 pity it's one-way Jun 13 10:08:40 nope Jun 13 10:08:42 it's 2 way Jun 13 10:11:13 tar to the rescue Jun 13 10:12:39 hmm... Jun 13 10:12:47 hmmhmm Jun 13 10:12:49 -rw-r--r-- 1 29999 root 70647808 2008-03-11 17:31 m4 Jun 13 10:13:00 I'd love new reiser4 for that 2.6.21-nokia Jun 13 10:13:01 that's where error occurs on mtdblock4 for me Jun 13 10:13:07 1 block Jun 13 10:13:20 KotCzarny: boohoo, your flash broke Jun 13 10:13:27 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 323.9M Jun 13 10:13 maemo.tar Jun 13 10:13:33 yeah, but hrw has the same error Jun 13 10:13:46 only at diff pos Jun 13 10:13:53 AStorm, because it kills your wife? (bad joke reference to bad joke) Jun 13 10:13:59 inz: ;) Jun 13 10:14:15 nah, because it's the only recent compressed fs that works Jun 13 10:14:26 if you have any other, tell me Jun 13 10:14:40 But does it do wear levelling? Jun 13 10:16:06 no Jun 13 10:16:14 MMC does its own wear levelling Jun 13 10:16:40 just need an FS that is friendly to it, i.e. disperses data evenly on the device Jun 13 10:16:51 mix them Jun 13 10:16:52 :) Jun 13 10:16:59 srsly? Jun 13 10:17:08 i think some crypto fs does that Jun 13 10:17:21 nah, n810 is too slow for crypto Jun 13 10:17:31 and no, no crypto does that, it's inefficient Jun 13 10:17:41 but safer Jun 13 10:17:42 :) Jun 13 10:17:50 it's said that reiserfs and reiser4 are fast on flash disks Jun 13 10:17:51 AStorm: Not if we could use the crypto on the omap chip ;) Jun 13 10:17:58 X-Fade_: definitely Jun 13 10:18:09 also, btrfs is fast, but it has no compression Jun 13 10:18:16 so 2MB/s transfer rate is biting it badly Jun 13 10:18:34 well, only writes are slow Jun 13 10:18:35 :) Jun 13 10:19:11 yeah Jun 13 10:19:15 reads are too Jun 13 10:19:21 check it yourself Jun 13 10:19:28 nope Jun 13 10:19:30 AStorm: after using reiserfs for ~year I prefer ext3 Jun 13 10:19:32 reads are fast Jun 13 10:19:36 hrw: on MMC? Jun 13 10:19:40 on HDD Jun 13 10:19:43 ... Jun 13 10:19:51 after using XFS I even more prefer ext3 ;) Jun 13 10:20:01 hrw: what about jfs? Jun 13 10:20:02 XFS is *slow* for normal usage, yes Jun 13 10:20:12 jfs is an antique system of antiquity and IRIX Jun 13 10:20:12 KotCzarny: never tried Jun 13 10:20:16 don't Jun 13 10:21:08 reiser4 would be great, if not for the reiser himself ;P Jun 13 10:21:22 * timeless doesn't understand why anyone would want anyhing other than zfs Jun 13 10:21:28 it's missing resizing and has some locking problems Jun 13 10:21:33 timeless: zsf *is slow* Jun 13 10:21:36 zfs Jun 13 10:21:44 comparable to xfs Jun 13 10:21:51 and we have LVM anyway Jun 13 10:22:11 hi all Jun 13 10:22:18 astorm: how about raid1 on a 16 flash partitions? Jun 13 10:22:20 :) Jun 13 10:22:21 small issue here: no space left Jun 13 10:22:30 x-fade. where's my planet Jun 13 10:22:30 that would disperse blocks :) Jun 13 10:22:35 citylights: clone to sd Jun 13 10:22:38 KotCzarny: LVM does that too (but you can use normal dm too) Jun 13 10:22:51 KotCzarny: I did that on 2 partitions Jun 13 10:22:55 classic raid sucks.. Jun 13 10:23:00 timeless: Oops. Sorry.. Will do it now. Jun 13 10:23:01 timeless: no, it doesn't Jun 13 10:23:04 thanks: how to find the files that caused it - and remove them? Jun 13 10:23:05 it works Jun 13 10:23:11 RaidZ is a ripoff Jun 13 10:23:25 citylights: find / -size +10M Jun 13 10:23:26 and i've mever seen people happy about lvm's Jun 13 10:23:28 or something Jun 13 10:23:29 /home/user # df -h Jun 13 10:23:42 timeless: because they don't talk about it Jun 13 10:23:46 as it *works* :-) Jun 13 10:24:07 /dev/mtdblock4 251.5M 239.7M 11.8M 95% / Jun 13 10:24:14 well, RAID Z is technically RAID-5 with variable stripe size Jun 13 10:24:15 nice mod Jun 13 10:24:16 find: invalid number '10M' Jun 13 10:24:23 man find Jun 13 10:24:26 someone should implement that in dm-raid Jun 13 10:24:33 and read what params -size accepts Jun 13 10:24:35 :) Jun 13 10:25:07 otoh, find on tablet may be crippled Jun 13 10:25:16 no man pages Jun 13 10:25:25 kinda hard to use man Jun 13 10:25:47 timeless: oss utils usually are machine independent Jun 13 10:25:49 :) Jun 13 10:25:52 I suspect its a /var issue Jun 13 10:25:55 man pages can be added Jun 13 10:26:00 no Jun 13 10:26:06 in /usr/local Jun 13 10:26:07 :) Jun 13 10:26:09 because we ship busybox tools Jun 13 10:26:12 not gnu Jun 13 10:26:17 #maemo> otoh, find on tablet may be crippled Jun 13 10:26:37 everything is :) Jun 13 10:26:42 I basiclly can't activate the google jabber accout at the accounts enable Jun 13 10:26:45 timeless: question is: WHY Jun 13 10:27:02 timeless: it's not embedded, that 100kb woldn't hurt Jun 13 10:27:09 you ship 10mb vids Jun 13 10:27:09 the original reasons were space and start speed Jun 13 10:27:26 but skimp on 100kb for usabilitiness in bb Jun 13 10:27:27 whether they're still valid today.... Jun 13 10:27:35 morning all Jun 13 10:27:42 Hi, lardman. :) Jun 13 10:27:44 remember 770 was a proto Jun 13 10:28:04 KotCzarny: I didnt find any big files Jun 13 10:28:15 I am wrong to assume no space is left? Jun 13 10:28:16 there may have been goals to target more limited devices Jun 13 10:28:17 timeless, even on 770 Jun 13 10:28:18 timeless: not that it starts slower with coreutils Jun 13 10:28:26 droppping vids is cheap Jun 13 10:28:26 hi GeneralAntilles Jun 13 10:28:32 the reason was Nokia dainbramage Jun 13 10:28:49 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1028 not quite the answer or specificity I was hoping for Jun 13 10:28:54 but if a script is built requiring a full tool Jun 13 10:28:57 you could simply have splitted ash from busybox Jun 13 10:29:20 then you can't replce it if you downtarget Jun 13 10:29:27 no? Jun 13 10:29:43 i bet that would fix bash problem too Jun 13 10:30:13 x-fade: anyway, google reader already found my blog Jun 13 10:30:18 how's planet Jun 13 10:30:39 Planet too. Jun 13 10:30:41 citylights: clone to sd Jun 13 10:30:56 timeless: "No items found in feed." Jun 13 10:31:47 um, uh, try the feed in a browser, it works for me Jun 13 10:32:33 KotCzarny: i JUST want to understand the cause to all this mess Jun 13 10:32:41 and it works for google reader Jun 13 10:32:45 I used a bad mmc and cpu ran high Jun 13 10:33:01 I assume lots of errors where writen to a log file Jun 13 10:33:19 there's no log file i think Jun 13 10:33:25 if I can't fix this - I would rather flash... Jun 13 10:33:31 ok, time to test 2.6.21 with CFS Jun 13 10:33:32 unles you have installed syslog package Jun 13 10:33:43 who could drop me a 2.6.21 n810 defconfig? Jun 13 10:34:03 it's in kernel Jun 13 10:34:06 is 14.7M/var - ok? Jun 13 10:34:31 I ran du -h /var to find 14.7Mb Jun 13 10:34:48 KotCzarny: no, that defconfig is for n800 Jun 13 10:34:57 timeless: Might have been a timeout. It now has all posts from 05/11/03 until now. Jun 13 10:35:05 then 810 uses the same config? Jun 13 10:35:29 :) Jun 13 10:35:38 KotCzarny: no, it can't Jun 13 10:35:43 it doesn't build Jun 13 10:35:50 i think the datestampsmay be bad, i'll try to fix them monday Jun 13 10:35:57 astorm: builds for me Jun 13 10:35:58 :) Jun 13 10:36:06 anyway, who cares Jun 13 10:36:10 I'll try myconfig ;) Jun 13 10:37:18 my /usr is 189.8M - I am using a N800 - is it too big? Jun 13 10:37:33 no, it's not Jun 13 10:37:33 a little Jun 13 10:37:39 stop asking pointless questions Jun 13 10:37:46 depends on what you have got installed Jun 13 10:38:22 AStorm: I think that the problems I see with my pda are caused Jun 13 10:38:26 KotCzarny: I'll try btrfs again, this time latest git Jun 13 10:38:30 by missing space Jun 13 10:38:36 cityLights: df will tell you Jun 13 10:38:40 use it Jun 13 10:39:02 I get the line /dev/mtdblock4 251.5M 239.9M 11.6M 95% / Jun 13 10:39:15 so - I got space -right? Jun 13 10:39:19 yes Jun 13 10:39:23 ok Jun 13 10:39:25 thanks Jun 13 10:39:49 I removed osso-email and couldnt install it Jun 13 10:39:58 clone to sd Jun 13 10:40:05 I tried installing modest, but couldnt save the account info Jun 13 10:40:20 KotCzarny: link pls? Jun 13 10:40:30 don't have Jun 13 10:40:30 cityLights: google.com Jun 13 10:40:36 i did it manually Jun 13 10:40:44 or search internet tablet talk forums Jun 13 10:40:57 clone to sd= slow work - right? Jun 13 10:41:10 no Jun 13 10:41:15 it might be faster Jun 13 10:41:21 less than 10 minutes when you know what you are doing Jun 13 10:41:24 but usually you won't notice Jun 13 10:41:43 meh, with 2.6.21 I can't use ext4 Jun 13 10:41:57 isn't ext4 still experimental? Jun 13 10:42:24 well, technically, so is Linux Jun 13 10:42:27 ;P Jun 13 10:42:38 linux has more testing :P Jun 13 10:42:43 disk format is stable Jun 13 10:42:49 fsck now works correctly Jun 13 10:42:57 time will tell Jun 13 10:43:01 it's more stable I think than reiser4 Jun 13 10:43:17 KotCzarny: nah, it has already told that ext4 rocks ;P Jun 13 10:43:29 using it for some time Jun 13 10:43:29 ehe :P Jun 13 10:43:47 2 words: hidden corruption :P Jun 13 10:43:56 no hidden corruption here, sorry Jun 13 10:44:00 ..yet Jun 13 10:44:00 ;P Jun 13 10:44:02 :P Jun 13 10:44:05 there won't be Jun 13 10:44:07 unless my HD dies Jun 13 10:44:12 time will tell Jun 13 10:44:20 yeah, time can make my HD fail, definitely Jun 13 10:44:29 I'm using it for half a year, heavily Jun 13 10:45:03 earlier there have been problems with fsck destroying partitions ;P but now, it's fixed and works Jun 13 10:45:09 :> Jun 13 10:45:29 till the next bugfix Jun 13 10:46:14 nope Jun 13 10:46:27 they've added a feature and not bugfixes Jun 13 10:46:37 till the next bugfix Jun 13 10:46:37 as there are no known bugs (maybe except in that new feature) Jun 13 10:46:44 the new feature is online defrag ;P Jun 13 10:46:54 I suspect online fsck will come next Jun 13 10:47:04 andre___, ping. Jun 13 10:47:33 a reeboot did the trick Jun 13 10:47:50 all is fine now Jun 13 10:47:59 which is odd in my mind Jun 13 10:48:08 GeneralAntilles, pong Jun 13 10:49:03 Do we want to model the Bugsquad after MAG? Jun 13 10:49:23 ok, now its time to understand if there is any reason NOT to use clone to sd. is it as fast as now? Jun 13 10:49:36 is it safer? Jun 13 10:49:58 well, the reason (on n800) was that MMC cards were removable Jun 13 10:50:16 while in n810, cloning to internal MMC should be done by Nokia, by default ;P Jun 13 10:50:25 and that would help me in... what? Jun 13 10:50:32 GeneralAntilles: who's MAG? :-) Jun 13 10:50:36 would give you more space on / partition Jun 13 10:50:44 of, ok Jun 13 10:50:47 andre___: Maemo Action Group or something Jun 13 10:51:07 * andre___ needs to dig deeper into Maemo it seems :) Jun 13 10:51:15 andre___, guess that one hasn't caught on yet. ;) http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemowiki_Action_Group Jun 13 10:51:21 assuming most of my data is saved at /media/mmc2 - I got the space I need - right? Jun 13 10:51:24 ;) Jun 13 10:51:34 cityLights: for data, yes Jun 13 10:51:42 for / filesystem (programs etc.), maybe not Jun 13 10:51:50 To clarify, do we want it as an organizational rally point for Bugzilla triage, etc effort or do you want it more as a documentation area for bugzilla procedures and practices? Jun 13 10:52:13 GeneralAntilles, AStorm: I just created http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugsquad 5min ago Jun 13 10:52:16 ah, there's another downgrade Jun 13 10:52:29 default Maemo can't export the flash over net Jun 13 10:52:35 unlike the internal MMC Jun 13 10:52:46 GeneralAntilles, I think I want both :) Jun 13 10:53:01 sshfs Jun 13 10:53:15 KotCzarny: don't tell me. I said "default Maemo" Jun 13 10:53:18 I need to create initial versions for the To do's I've listed and discuss them on the mailing list, and find interested people Jun 13 10:53:20 it's not automatic Jun 13 10:53:22 andre___, right, good point. I kinda framed it like they were mutually exclusive. ;) Jun 13 10:53:40 astorm: nobody runs default meamo Jun 13 10:53:42 :) Jun 13 10:53:52 GeneralAntilles, naah, it's always my problem - "I want everything at once" :-P Jun 13 10:53:54 but close to default Jun 13 10:54:01 and sshfs is not automatic Jun 13 10:54:11 esp. mounting it from Windoze is not Jun 13 10:54:23 unlike USB storage through gadgetfs Jun 13 10:54:55 GeneralAntilles, hope to work out that Bugsquad stuff next week, too much on the list for today and monday :-/ but if you have any ideas/proposals/contributions, please tell :) Jun 13 10:55:17 KotCzarny: is it possible to make gadgetfs export the flash? Jun 13 10:55:24 pf Jun 13 10:55:37 i don't use usb for nit Jun 13 10:55:47 because you keep it by your machine Jun 13 10:55:50 which is pointless Jun 13 10:56:00 it's a *remote* command station, dammit Jun 13 10:56:06 andre___, I've got an idea for a basic framework for the Bugsquad front page. Jun 13 10:56:09 :) Jun 13 10:56:16 GeneralAntilles, nice! Jun 13 10:56:18 Also, does BS: work for the Bugsquad namespace? :D Jun 13 10:57:47 GeneralAntilles: Hmmm BS. ;) Jun 13 10:57:52 BUG: would be better Jun 13 10:57:53 Hehe Jun 13 10:58:00 GeneralAntilles, BS isn't obvious Jun 13 10:58:02 baby sitters? Jun 13 10:58:02 AStorm, good thinking! :D Jun 13 10:58:04 Bugsquad User Group Jun 13 10:58:16 bug sitters? Jun 13 10:58:26 andre___, I'm really not a fan of the "Bugsquad/

" setup. Jun 13 10:58:30 "recursive acronyms! recursive acronyms!" :-P Jun 13 10:58:36 I much prefer namespaces. Jun 13 10:58:40 and that's what I've been using on MAG Jun 13 10:58:50 hmm Jun 13 10:59:00 what about "Bugs:"? Jun 13 10:59:20 BUGS: ? Jun 13 10:59:30 ok Jun 13 10:59:40 i quickly thought about a better term 20min ago, but wanted to start "somewhere" :) Jun 13 10:59:55 Gotta shoehorn it in there to be uniform with the rest of the wiki. :P Jun 13 11:00:11 GeneralAntilles, sure! please feel encouraged to change it in the wiki :) Jun 13 11:00:22 Also, article titles should be set up like "Stock answers" not "Stock Answers" or "StockAnswers" Jun 13 11:01:06 andre___, avoiding A. Making stupid one-sided decisions and B. Stepping on toes. :D :P Jun 13 11:02:30 andre___, http://wiki.maemo.org/BUGS:Stock_answers Look OK? Jun 13 11:02:38 GeneralAntilles, yupp! Jun 13 11:03:31 andre___, also, sign with "—~~~~" or "--~~~~" Jun 13 11:03:52 why n810 has 3 fb device? (/dev/fb0; /dev/fb1; /dev/fb2) Jun 13 11:03:54 if that macro would work here, i'd use it... grumble :) Jun 13 11:04:13 Work where, the mediawiki? Jun 13 11:05:29 andre___, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugsquad Jun 13 11:05:40 Probably want to add your name above mine in the members list. "# ~~~~" Jun 13 11:06:05 will do Jun 13 11:09:21 done Jun 13 11:10:02 Looks good, you'll have to poke guenther about getting in on the wiki. :D Jun 13 11:10:40 and it's "maemo.org" now. :< Jun 13 11:11:28 andre___, you can change your signature nickname here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Preferences Jun 13 11:11:35 ah. hehe. yupp, sent him an email already (looks like he's not online right now) Jun 13 11:11:38 So you don't have to do the [[User:Andre|Andre]] thing. Jun 13 11:11:57 Since the garage stuff appears to be all lowercase. Jun 13 11:13:11 ...it's always good to have people around that have a clue :-) Jun 13 11:13:25 * GeneralAntilles has done a fair bit of wikipedia editing. Jun 13 11:15:39 i see... i only correct typos when i read articles :) Jun 13 11:15:42 andre/x-fade/gan800: i've changed the tm links Jun 13 11:16:00 but i used a browser w/o c+p, please verify they're goood Jun 13 11:18:20 Seems fine, timeless. Jun 13 11:18:37 sadly, you have to check each product Jun 13 11:18:49 anyway, my battery's dead Jun 13 11:18:51 bye Jun 13 11:19:07 Later Jun 13 11:19:15 bye Jun 13 11:19:41 andre___, you have an easy way to do that? :P I don't fancy picking out a bug from every product to try the link. Jun 13 11:20:17 GeneralAntilles: Direct in the db? Jun 13 11:21:19 hmm Jun 13 11:55:51 Oh boy Jun 13 11:55:52 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=191623#post191623 Jun 13 11:56:08 what is it? you mom post on ITT now? Jun 13 11:56:16 * rm_you prods GeneralAntilles Jun 13 11:56:38 * GeneralAntilles sends 240v back up rm_you's prodding rod. Jun 13 11:56:56 It'll be interesting to see the itT reaction. Jun 13 11:58:13 oooo Jun 13 11:58:15 logo contest :P Jun 13 11:58:21 GeneralAntilles: you gonna enter? :P Jun 13 11:58:32 I've got nothing Jun 13 12:21:18 hey, I'm having some problems with maemo mapper Jun 13 12:21:34 what seems to be happening? Jun 13 12:21:41 kick it in the balls Jun 13 12:21:57 that should teach it not to cause problems Jun 13 12:22:24 crashes randomly, I get gdbm fatal: read error Jun 13 12:22:43 strace it? Jun 13 12:22:54 see what it tries to read? Jun 13 12:23:05 k Jun 13 12:28:34 kotczarny: strace? Jun 13 12:28:47 package ? Jun 13 12:28:54 erm Jun 13 12:29:12 is there a strace package that can be use on device ? Jun 13 12:29:17 is that error immediately after you run it? Jun 13 12:29:22 i just compiled one myself Jun 13 12:29:32 Khertan: yes Jun 13 12:29:32 it's not a big util Jun 13 12:29:41 lemmie see what package i got it from Jun 13 12:29:59 probably from a strace package :) Jun 13 12:30:05 its like Jun 13 12:30:09 one of those *util packages Jun 13 12:30:58 http://packages.debian.org/sid/strace Jun 13 12:30:59 :) Jun 13 12:31:35 pffft ok so maybe it is just strace :P Jun 13 12:31:45 :) Jun 13 12:33:15 * lcuk ponders Jun 13 12:34:30 1337 o clock Jun 13 12:34:38 Interesting, when did the Fremantle and Harmattan TMs get added? Jun 13 12:39:42 14:34:30 Atarii | 1337 o clock Jun 13 12:39:49 Atarii: your clock is off ;) Jun 13 12:40:20 40 already Jun 13 12:40:29 indeed Jun 13 12:43:44 is there another package that providves linux-libc-dev in maemo? Jun 13 12:54:24 hi. anybody have kismet on OS2008? Jun 13 12:57:31 ah, haven't eaten kismet for a long time... Jun 13 12:59:23 finally got canola2 working Jun 13 12:59:26 this is sweeeet Jun 13 13:02:09 Atarii: looks good eh? :) Jun 13 13:02:26 sure does Jun 13 13:02:35 shame ive only got a 770 Jun 13 13:24:53 linux-kernel-headers in chinook are 2.6.16.osso11-1, but, the installed kernel is 2.6.21-omap1; is the numbering not related? Jun 13 13:25:06 hmm Jun 13 13:25:17 you are misinformed Jun 13 13:25:27 kernel is 2.6.21.0-osso71 Jun 13 13:25:28 afair Jun 13 13:26:05 same for installed kernel Jun 13 13:26:12 are you running chinook? Jun 13 13:26:33 KotCzarny, OS2008 flashed image on N800 Jun 13 13:26:47 2.6.16 seems very old Jun 13 13:26:53 what revision? Jun 13 13:27:14 KotCzarny, "uname -a" returns "Linux Nokia-N800-51-3 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Fri Dec 7 11:17:13 EET 2007 armv6l unknown" Jun 13 13:27:42 hmm Jun 13 13:28:04 then you are browsing old sources tree Jun 13 13:28:05 :) Jun 13 13:28:20 /etc/apt/sources.list on device has "deb http://repository.maemo.org/ chinook free non-free extras" Jun 13 13:28:45 * mbuf goes to check the N810 Jun 13 13:29:21 this is what I get from the strace during the maemo-mapper crash: http://slexy.org/view/s2WfVAzJEf Jun 13 13:30:33 http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/08/06/13/123206.shtml Jun 13 13:31:02 nokia internet: serious business ;) Jun 13 13:31:12 Ah, Ari. Jun 13 13:32:33 in N810, "uname -a" gives "Linux Nokia-N810-50-2 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Fri Dec 7 11:17:13 EET 2007 armv6l unknown" Jun 13 13:32:46 KotCzarny, and linux-kernel-headers installed is 2.6.16-osso11-1 Jun 13 13:32:50 crashanddie, your widget dimensions are negative, are you sure you are not using complex numbers as a coordinate system or a 4 dimensional display? Jun 13 13:33:00 lcuk: yeah just read that Jun 13 13:33:22 what should be the /etc/apt/sources.list ? Jun 13 13:33:51 lol my dads response to me showing him canola2 "It looks like an Apple" Jun 13 13:34:00 lcuk... I'm just trying to use maemo mapper... I'm just looking at maps here Jun 13 13:34:06 mbuf: definitely there is a newer one available for chinook Jun 13 13:34:14 trickie, sounds very similar to the rumblings i heard at ltag, it shouldnt be a problem for some things (drivers/telecoms software) but for regular joe blow apps it should be open and shared :) Jun 13 13:34:27 crashanddie, are you situated inside a blckhole? Jun 13 13:34:29 KotCzarny, ok Jun 13 13:34:30 i don't know if some of the quotes were accurate, but i don't need to be 'educated' in proprietary / intellectual property / corporate ways of things Jun 13 13:35:00 don't remember tree name though Jun 13 13:35:04 trickie, if you dont think you need to be educated, then you havent been educated enough ;) Jun 13 13:35:23 ha Jun 13 13:36:31 hmm Jun 13 13:36:45 crashed and died again? Jun 13 13:36:46 I wondered what the small X was in xchat Jun 13 13:36:58 ... Jun 13 13:37:09 blah Jun 13 13:37:18 my mkfs.jffs2 segfaults when I give it -X lzo Jun 13 13:38:07 so... never had this problem, anyone ? Jun 13 13:38:09 Weee another great post from Darius :) Jun 13 13:38:18 lcuk: i actually thought that some of the those quotes came across as condesending... we are not stupid, we know they way things work, doesn't mean we should agree and play along regardless Jun 13 13:38:41 lcuk: but thats my personal opinion i guess Jun 13 13:39:17 Ari is an interesting fellow. Jun 13 13:39:35 23-14 is out Jun 13 13:39:36 no i agree trickie, i think this release and the shitstorm of a backlash from developers may make them see we arent children Jun 13 13:40:28 they already know they cant just take a product and do it all themselves and expect the community to follow (it says as much in the article) but i think we will find the common ground. Jun 13 13:41:12 * pupnik_ checks his widget dimensions Jun 13 13:41:18 phew, not negative Jun 13 13:41:31 * lcuk puts pupnik on a lowcarb widget diet Jun 13 13:41:51 if i make negative widgets my sketches just invert \o/ Jun 13 13:42:42 lcuk: yeah for sure... and i can see their point of view... being a mega corporation competing with other mega corporations they have to do some things by their rules... but as an individual i think their way is wrong (DRM, intellectual property as it stands today) Jun 13 13:42:51 lcuk: i don't need no education :) Jun 13 13:43:27 can anyone post their /etc/apt/sources.list for the N810? Jun 13 13:43:34 we don't need no thought control? Jun 13 13:44:33 * lcuk is still learning. Jun 13 13:51:36 lcuk: right on! Jun 13 13:52:21 mbuf: those sources look correct to me Jun 13 13:52:41 trickie, ok Jun 13 13:53:11 mbuf: the line you pasted above i mean Jun 13 13:53:54 trickie, but, i don't understand the header and kernel version mis-match; or they have just different release numbers? Jun 13 13:53:56 ok guys Jun 13 13:53:58 maybe you'll know Jun 13 13:54:04 where do I get usr/initramfs_data.o? Jun 13 13:54:31 trickie, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/l/linux-kernel-headers/ shows 2.6.16 Jun 13 13:54:54 mbuf: yes thats right... the headers are not always in synch with the kernel version Jun 13 13:55:03 trickie, thanks Jun 13 13:56:14 lcuk > still here ? Jun 13 13:56:28 ok, *where* do I get usr/initramfs_data.o? Jun 13 13:56:33 it doesn't want to be made ;P Jun 13 13:57:44 ok, could someone make that file available to me? ;P Jun 13 13:57:51 just broke my kernel dir then ;P Jun 13 13:59:49 ummm guys my yahoo email can be default on email box? Jun 13 14:00:22 huh? Jun 13 14:00:36 khertan, just about Jun 13 14:01:32 ? Jun 13 14:01:39 mbuf: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0.1/free/k/kernel-source-rx-34/ Jun 13 14:01:42 humm ... it s about your video ... Jun 13 14:01:48 :) Jun 13 14:01:59 :) indeed Jun 13 14:02:17 i don't see very well as ... youtube is youtube Jun 13 14:02:22 * lcuk :)s about it every day Jun 13 14:02:24 kinetic scrolling is nice Jun 13 14:02:41 KotCzarny: do you have usr/initramfs_data.o for me? Jun 13 14:02:43 but i think this is just the surface of the iceberg Jun 13 14:02:49 somehow, it's unmakeable Jun 13 14:02:51 astorm: mm? Jun 13 14:02:52 KotCzarny, what needs to be added to /etc/apt/sources.list to get that repo? Jun 13 14:03:16 any news about diablo? Jun 13 14:03:17 is there some docs/example/explanation/description about this somewhere ? Jun 13 14:03:25 mbuf: it's the same as chinook one Jun 13 14:03:28 actually, initramfs_data.S Jun 13 14:03:33 just followed my bookmark Jun 13 14:03:36 I've erased it by accident Jun 13 14:03:43 from 2.6.21-nokia patched Jun 13 14:03:48 astorm: bad bad astorm Jun 13 14:03:58 KotCzarny, but, i did apt-get update, and it still said that 2.6.16 is the latest one that is installed Jun 13 14:04:00 mbuf: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/k/kernel-source-rx-34/ Jun 13 14:04:04 KotCzarny: yeah, bad Jun 13 14:04:07 ~/wq Jun 13 14:04:09 remove kernel-headers Jun 13 14:04:12 and I don't want to untar the whole kernel for it Jun 13 14:04:13 get kernel-source Jun 13 14:04:42 khertan, ill be back from work at around 6pm, at the moment im in vnc and its jumpy, ill have a proper chat with you then and maybe give you a better example :) Jun 13 14:05:01 astorm: let me check my kernel source Jun 13 14:05:09 hum ... i ll be in the train at 18:00pm :) Jun 13 14:05:28 and haven't still not found how to reinstall rtcomm Jun 13 14:05:29 ;) Jun 13 14:05:43 initramfs_data.S x 1024 Jun 13 14:05:46 this one? Jun 13 14:06:20 ya Jun 13 14:07:03 mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/tmp/initramfs_data.S Jun 13 14:08:10 thx Jun 13 14:08:16 just trying out 2.6.21+cfs Jun 13 14:08:18 that would be 5EUR Jun 13 14:08:26 KotCzarny: aaaaah! Jun 13 14:08:32 no, I don't have any on me Jun 13 14:08:50 pity, now i have to take your arm Jun 13 14:08:59 KotCzarny, i don't want the sources, i only want the header files Jun 13 14:09:11 mbuf: what can i say Jun 13 14:09:12 :) Jun 13 14:09:30 probably no one bothered to update the headers package :) Jun 13 14:09:39 KotCzarny, i understand the sources have the header files Jun 13 14:09:44 KotCzarny, ok Jun 13 14:09:45 maybe sdk tree have newer one Jun 13 14:09:48 mbuf: make install_headers Jun 13 14:09:49 ;P Jun 13 14:10:34 AStorm, KotCzarny ok Jun 13 14:11:33 "You have to traverse the filesystem metadata to determine the RAID-Z geometry." Jun 13 14:11:38 what a load Jun 13 14:11:45 you can just check block boundaries Jun 13 14:11:50 Khertan, ill be around from 6-730 tonight then from very late, im off out drinking tonight Jun 13 14:12:16 mbuf: why do you want a new kernel-headers? thats the kernel -> userland interface, really changes Jun 13 14:12:21 rarely Jun 13 14:12:52 trickie, .16 and .21 is quite a jump Jun 13 14:12:57 though Jun 13 14:13:00 trickie, inotify-tools requires linux-libc6-dev on desktop, for packaging; in Maemo it is linux-kernel-headers package; it is there, just that the version numbering is different :) Jun 13 14:13:06 trickie: no, it often changes Jun 13 14:13:13 e.g. .16 didn't have CLOCK_MONOTONIC Jun 13 14:13:36 or i can package linux-kernel-headers with the latest ones, and submit it Jun 13 14:14:38 i bet dpkg-buildpackage prepares kernel, modules and headers debs Jun 13 14:14:54 cyas later folks \o kot, get some sleep or breakfast whichever time it is Jun 13 14:15:07 hah. Jun 13 14:15:08 fair enough Jun 13 14:15:10 breakfast done Jun 13 14:15:13 sleep, soon Jun 13 14:15:14 :) Jun 13 14:15:16 it doesn't change too often though Jun 13 14:15:28 but yes 16 -> 21 is a jump Jun 13 14:38:38 KotCzarny: what do I need for TWL4030 driver to build? Jun 13 14:38:51 just selecting TWL4030_CORE means compile failure Jun 13 14:42:57 KotCzarny: alternatively, gimme n800defconfig Jun 13 14:46:20 AStorm: what kernel version? Jun 13 14:46:28 2.6.21-nokia Jun 13 14:46:48 does MicroB support quirks mode? Jun 13 14:46:58 ahha, need 2430 support for some reason Jun 13 14:47:04 andre___: sure it does, like gecko Jun 13 14:47:30 hmm, thanks (just trying to find out the reason for a bug) Jun 13 14:47:33 AStorm: pfff, sorry, i turned my PC off on my way out this morning... don't have the sources Jun 13 14:48:05 heh Jun 13 14:48:33 now, having both 2420 and 2430 defined, I get *a lot* of foo redefined Jun 13 14:48:44 which one is N810? Jun 13 14:49:35 well the 800 is 2420 Jun 13 14:49:48 so n810 is that too Jun 13 14:49:52 hmmm Jun 13 14:49:59 could be the 2430 Jun 13 14:49:59 I assume 810 would be 2420 = OMAP2420 Jun 13 14:50:01 then why twl4030 support doesn't build on 2420? Jun 13 14:51:32 yeah its 2420 Jun 13 14:51:33 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/nokia_810_hardware_specification/ Jun 13 14:51:58 f**k epson with their POS S1D13745 Jun 13 14:52:40 AStorm: twl4030 is for 2430 yeah? Jun 13 14:52:50 hm Jun 13 14:52:56 my mistake then Jun 13 14:53:02 im not sure... Jun 13 14:53:13 but i don't ever remeber seeing that for my n800 Jun 13 14:58:01 hmmm Jun 13 14:58:03 sound/built-in.o: In function `tsc2102_set_samplerate': Jun 13 14:58:03 last.c:(.text+0x157fc): undefined reference to `__raw_writew' Jun 13 14:58:42 Anyone know how karma gets calculated? Jun 13 14:58:59 I don't "favourite" stuff (is that a verb?) Jun 13 14:59:34 but I get a lot of karma for blog, discussion, groups and wikicreates (weird that it's only creates that count) Jun 13 14:59:49 Oooh - just missed bergie Jun 13 15:00:39 i don't know how it s calculated Jun 13 15:00:53 i thought i get too many karma ... :) Jun 13 15:01:32 9th ... :) Jun 13 15:01:35 http://maemo.org/profile/list/ Jun 13 15:06:30 ok, I screwed up Jun 13 15:06:34 touchpad doesn't work Jun 13 15:06:47 KotCzarny: care to give me that n800defconfig? Jun 13 15:07:34 it booted, which is good Jun 13 15:07:49 now I need to charge the battery and replace kernel modules with newer ones Jun 13 15:16:52 i hope we will get the 2430OMAP with a wired video out in the next IT : http://focus.ti.com/graphics/wtbu/blockdiagrams/l4_omap2430.gif Jun 13 15:18:35 i want to have a iphone Jun 13 15:19:59 fff Jun 13 15:20:01 lol Jun 13 15:20:29 why to be able to buy an application to do copy / paste ? Jun 13 15:21:17 whats the name of the program which eats cpu on 2008? media scanner one Jun 13 15:21:19 heh, im partial to say to hell with copy/paste if it behaves like it does on the os08 these days... Jun 13 15:21:36 Atarii, metalayer-crawler ? Jun 13 15:21:47 when i want to mark something, its almost impossible. but half the time i want to just move stuff around, i mark it instead... Jun 13 15:21:47 cheers Jun 13 15:23:02 Talking about copy and paste, how do I stop my computer from copying texts from convos in xchat randomly? Jun 13 15:23:34 doesnt xchat have the highlight -> copy method? Jun 13 15:24:28 It probably does, but how do I turn it off?!? :P. It drives me crazy lol Jun 13 15:26:12 blah! Jun 13 15:26:20 can't use scp or sftp with dropbear Jun 13 15:26:25 who made that piece of junk? Jun 13 15:27:03 Out of curiosity, using the initfs ssh? Jun 13 15:28:01 qwerty12: yes Jun 13 15:28:36 ok, so how do I copy a few files? (actually, dropbear keys) Jun 13 15:29:47 wait, doesn't dropbear have scp? Jun 13 15:29:52 I thought it did... Jun 13 15:29:57 qwerty12 > sudo apt-get remove xchat && apt-get update && apt-get install irssi Jun 13 15:29:58 :) Jun 13 15:30:17 I'm not so keen on irssi :) Jun 13 15:30:45 johnx, iirc it does, it's a symlink to the dropbear binary Jun 13 15:30:50 i ll come back to home ... Jun 13 15:30:56 bye bye Jun 13 15:31:36 AStorm, Copying from the device to computer or from computer to device? Jun 13 15:31:52 dev->computer Jun 13 15:32:03 there's no netcat in initfs :/ Jun 13 15:32:15 fanoush gave me this: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=161464&postcount=4 Jun 13 15:32:25 (It's to send the entire rootfs though, modify the command) Jun 13 15:32:51 ah, the other way ;P Jun 13 15:32:57 ssh from device to my machine Jun 13 15:33:03 Well, if it works... Jun 13 15:33:12 -sh: ssh: not found - it doesn't Jun 13 15:33:28 well, apt-get install openssh-client on your computer then :p Jun 13 15:33:36 ... Jun 13 15:33:36 or whatever package thing you use Jun 13 15:33:40 ON THE DEVICE! Jun 13 15:33:44 it's initfs Jun 13 15:33:52 it runs on the COMPUTER Jun 13 15:33:56 I want to copy from device to the compute Jun 13 15:34:18 anyone running 2008HE? Jun 13 15:34:19 ah, that one, yes Jun 13 15:34:21 wait Jun 13 15:34:25 Well, I ran that on the computer and I got my N800's rootfs in a tar on my computer so I assume it safely works Jun 13 15:35:21 ok, now I have it Jun 13 15:35:23 AStorm, so you can access the rootfs? if so, chroot into it and use tools from there Jun 13 15:35:43 for some reason, I get a crash when fully booting Jun 13 15:35:59 maybe I need fsck.jffs2 ;P Jun 13 15:36:27 or maybe... there is another possible reason Jun 13 15:36:35 jffs2 does its own checks on bootup Jun 13 15:36:43 and reboots if the partition is fucked and fixes it Jun 13 15:38:50 bah, i still see modest hanging around in the process list after i have closed it :( Jun 13 15:39:15 I find it does that in diablo with no email accounts configured and without even running it once :P Jun 13 15:39:34 t_s_o, do you have it set to check for mail? Jun 13 15:39:44 johnx: nope Jun 13 15:44:17 qwerty12: could you drop me n800defconfig? Jun 13 15:44:39 From the normal nokia kernel-source-rx-34-2.6.21.0? Jun 13 15:44:42 yes Jun 13 15:45:33 Ok, pastebinning Jun 13 15:45:35 as I have a late kernel hang Jun 13 15:45:41 need to check what causes it Jun 13 15:45:48 didn't have it with tsc2301 disabled Jun 13 15:45:53 heh, deleting a mail and closing modest do nothing. i either have to refresh or move to another account for it to understand that yes, i have deleted that mail! Jun 13 15:46:01 (but that's a lot of stuff) Jun 13 15:47:00 qwerty12: I'm waiting... :-) Jun 13 15:47:02 AStorm, kernel-source-rx-34-2.6.21.0/arch/arm/configs/n800_defconfig: http://pastebin.com/m339dc74 Jun 13 15:47:04 :-) Jun 13 15:48:07 Heh, firefox 3 crashed. (It keeps crashing for me on uploads, usually I wouldn't mind waiting but crashing when uploading a 32Kb text file essentially makes me want to kick the ff3 developers) Jun 13 15:48:21 hm, diff fails on the files Jun 13 15:48:24 for some reason Jun 13 15:48:31 gives me full file reference Jun 13 15:49:57 Have any idea what is crashing? nitro showed wlancond crashing when i made " 2.6.21-omap1-qwerty" Jun 13 15:50:32 possible Jun 13 15:50:42 the trick is that it's not cx3110x crashing Jun 13 15:50:44 something else is Jun 13 15:50:58 as it worked (albeit w/o touchscreen) with tsc2301 disabled Jun 13 15:52:24 Curse of Friday 13th? Jun 13 15:52:43 maybe ;P Jun 13 15:53:55 heh, just out of question, how come you aren't using nokia_2420_defconfig? Works for me (but then again, I'm just compiling 2.6.21) Jun 13 15:55:34 ok, now I know why the crash is there Jun 13 15:55:39 it *is* due to cx3110x Jun 13 15:55:47 actually, made the PREEMPT kernel Jun 13 15:55:58 while cx is built for non-PREEMPT Jun 13 15:56:08 kernel noticed it too late ;P Jun 13 15:56:17 Ooh, PREEMPT never worked on 2.6.21 either, would make mce shutdown my N800 Jun 13 15:56:53 ;P Jun 13 15:58:13 funny how it worked w/o TSC2301 Jun 13 15:58:21 at least we now know what fails with PREEMPT Jun 13 15:58:28 pity I can't use 2.6.26-omap Jun 13 15:58:45 it'd work great, if not for that Conexant chip Jun 13 15:59:15 are there (dis-)advantages using ext2 or vfat on the SD-cards? Jun 13 15:59:21 uhm Jun 13 15:59:24 vfat is the default Jun 13 15:59:43 both hit the first disk block hard Jun 13 15:59:54 so performance is lowered Jun 13 16:00:26 other than that, ext2 should be faster than vfat due to it dispersing data over whole device Jun 13 16:01:36 can i use ext2 for intern and extern card? or only extern? Jun 13 16:02:06 on both if you wish Jun 13 16:02:34 <||cw> SD cards already write-level, which disperses data, so performance won't be different for that reason, but ext is more efficient that fat Jun 13 16:05:26 whee, it seems it didn't crash Jun 13 16:05:39 ||cw: no, it will be Jun 13 16:05:52 SD is block-levelled Jun 13 16:06:16 so, if one block is hit hard many times, write is slower Jun 13 16:07:09 dammit Jun 13 16:07:14 touchpad still not responding Jun 13 16:07:18 must've forgot a driver Jun 13 16:08:55 hey Jun 13 16:09:09 djeezus, why the hell does maemo mapper randomly crash ? Jun 13 16:09:25 Does anyone know a retail store that carries the n800/n810 physically in the store? Jun 13 16:09:36 best buy's no help, they only sell it online -_- Jun 13 16:09:52 verkkokauppa.com. to be found in Helsinki, Finland and Tampere, Finland. ;> Jun 13 16:10:00 Pcworld in the UK Jun 13 16:10:07 I'm in the US Jun 13 16:10:11 =P Jun 13 16:10:39 Freekyfrogy, "living in the US" isn't a given, they all had valid answers :P Jun 13 16:10:53 I know Jun 13 16:10:58 sorry for not clarifying Jun 13 16:10:59 are there other "pimp" thinks i can do with my sd card? block size etc? Jun 13 16:11:29 hey, eichi Jun 13 16:11:59 eichi, I saw on google (#maemo logs), that you at one point had a problem with maemo mapper... "gdbm fatal: read error" ? Jun 13 16:12:15 eichi, I have the exact same problem, no clue where to find help Jun 13 16:12:27 yeah, now i have 2 new high-end sd cards Jun 13 16:12:33 today i got them Jun 13 16:12:40 although whilst on the subject, PcWorld describes it as a "Nokia 810 GSM Internet Tablet" Jun 13 16:12:42 GSM :S Jun 13 16:12:43 crashanddie, maybe sd cards are corrupt Jun 13 16:12:50 qwerty12, it's the internal memory Jun 13 16:12:53 crashanddie, ext2 ? Jun 13 16:12:58 crashanddie, N810? Jun 13 16:13:00 try fsck.ext2 Jun 13 16:13:01 yeah Jun 13 16:13:12 the internal memory on the n810 is fat, no ? Jun 13 16:13:18 and you have to remount the card after every boot Jun 13 16:13:25 crashanddie, Have you ever reformatted it? Nokia made a boo boo at the factory. Jun 13 16:13:49 qwerty12, yeah, I had to, at one point it was read-only Jun 13 16:14:29 Hmm, I'd shove in an external mmc and move the maps and change the location of the map storage in maemo mapper and see if the same message still occurs. Jun 13 16:14:42 don't have a sd card :( Jun 13 16:14:49 don't have access to mini/micro ones atm Jun 13 16:14:56 never got around buying one Jun 13 16:15:10 can I fsck.fat on it while it's mounted ? Jun 13 16:15:23 no but running umount on it is no problem Jun 13 16:15:58 hmm, and now it crashed Jun 13 16:16:21 Free cluster summary wrong (157259 vs. really 158475) Jun 13 16:16:23 hmm Jun 13 16:16:37 oh, and now it didn't Jun 13 16:16:47 i head thousends of errors you can use -y Jun 13 16:16:53 to auto correct Jun 13 16:17:02 maybe the device needs a reboot after flashing kernel ;P Jun 13 16:17:44 crashanddie, do you have good sdcards or only noname cheap ones? Jun 13 16:18:13 isn't the cheapest you can get a 32gb sd card for is like $200? Jun 13 16:18:14 (crashanddie) don't have a sd card :( Jun 13 16:18:27 Freekyfrogy, $800 more like it Jun 13 16:18:31 oh Jun 13 16:18:38 I've seen online for like 200 or 250 Jun 13 16:18:59 SD != microSD Jun 13 16:19:06 there are no 32G microSD yet Jun 13 16:19:18 minisd sucks :( Jun 13 16:19:26 every time i go to the external sd card with default file browser i get the message "unable to open" but it opens Jun 13 16:19:59 crashanddie: minisd is nonexistent Jun 13 16:19:59 ;P Jun 13 16:20:04 microsd sucks, yes Jun 13 16:20:40 i have to sd-cards sanDisk extreme III 4 and 8GB Jun 13 16:20:45 does microsd go up to 8gb, or only 4? Jun 13 16:20:47 *two Jun 13 16:21:10 I have a 2gb microsd card Jun 13 16:21:16 Freekyfrogy, 8 Jun 13 16:21:17 and a 2gb sd card Jun 13 16:21:36 ok, thanks Jun 13 16:22:08 argh! Jun 13 16:22:18 cx3110x didn't load because of diff version magic Jun 13 16:22:21 need to rebuild it ;P Jun 13 16:22:50 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001A1DSI4?smid=A17MC6HOH9AVE6&tag=nextag-ce-tier3-20&linkCode=asn Jun 13 16:22:58 32gb sd for 200 Jun 13 16:23:00 hehehe Jun 13 16:25:49 and I fail again, forgot to rebuild btrfs too Jun 13 16:26:55 Freekyfrogy, 8gb microsd comes around $50 Jun 13 16:27:05 hello- Day 2 of the N800.. things are going well! Jun 13 16:27:23 May I ask about the streaming web cam thing.. where can I find out about how to set that up? Jun 13 16:27:53 search itt for gstmpeg Jun 13 16:27:55 ~itt Jun 13 16:27:56 rumour has it, itt is the forums on internettablettalk.com ( http://internettablettalk.com/forums ) Jun 13 16:28:05 Freekyfrogy, though, the 16gb are available too, they come around $100 Jun 13 16:28:07 Freekyfrogy, http://www.mymemory.co.uk/Micro-SDHC/SanDisk/SanDisk-16GB-Micro-SD-(SDHC)-Card---Class-4 Jun 13 16:28:13 darkblue_B, or motion Jun 13 16:28:36 btw Jun 13 16:28:48 what is is with SD cards and their weird naming convention ? Jun 13 16:28:58 SD, then SDHC, for High Capacity Jun 13 16:29:01 looking Jun 13 16:29:09 then, soon, we'll have SDSHC, for Super High Capacity Jun 13 16:29:32 <||cw> why is that weird Jun 13 16:29:43 x11vnc takes ages to compile :( Jun 13 16:29:43 in 2 years, SDSMGREBHC for Super Mega Really Enormously Big High Capacity Jun 13 16:30:51 Soon, they'll be so small, I can hide them in my "Kulli":p Jun 13 16:30:59 <||cw> crashanddie: I think it'll take more than a couple years to get 2TB sd cards Jun 13 16:31:21 Brings me back to the days of my youth Jun 13 16:31:23 hmm Google only shows 5 hits for gstmpeg.. some other name? Jun 13 16:31:47 360k floppies, then 720k HD floppies, and finally 1440k DD floppies Jun 13 16:31:55 btw, does anyone ever thought about microsd == microfilms in spy movies ? Jun 13 16:32:05 darkblue_B: It's a gstreamer plug-in? Jun 13 16:32:20 Like, one microfilm could hold thousands of billions of bits of data Jun 13 16:32:24 It'll be in gstreamer-plugins-good Jun 13 16:32:35 /mnt/devel/cx3110x-module-src-2.0.15/src/sm_drv.c:498: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘skb_reset_mac_header’ Jun 13 16:32:40 am I missing something? Jun 13 16:32:41 my bad, it's gstmpjg: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20309&highlight=motion Jun 13 16:32:42 <||cw> dneary: 720 was DD, 1.4M was HD Jun 13 16:33:08 qwerty12: aha Jun 13 16:33:11 ||cw: I though DD was double density, and HD was high density? Jun 13 16:33:25 <||cw> dneary: yes, in this case high is more than double Jun 13 16:33:44 Ah Jun 13 16:33:47 Funny that Jun 13 16:34:29 Funny how abbreviations change over time... Jun 13 16:34:33 ok! Day 2, Apache Jun 13 16:34:36 qwerty12 & eichi: maemo-mapper still crashes from read error after fsck'ing it... I guess I'll have to find a microsd card and check from there Jun 13 16:34:53 * darkblue_B dislikes apache actually Jun 13 16:35:14 <||cw> "high" for SD is also at least double, so i don't see how it's different Jun 13 16:35:54 hola Jun 13 16:40:31 hmmm unable to install httpd.. both of the new versions Jun 13 16:41:02 ok, hacked around it ;P Jun 13 16:42:25 unable to *update* httpd... it *is* in installed apps.. ok Jun 13 16:47:56 hmm Jun 13 16:48:07 now I' getting a working whit screen Jun 13 16:48:12 *white Jun 13 16:48:33 power button displays the power menu nicely Jun 13 16:49:13 hm, not anymore Jun 13 16:49:29 I suspect my hacked cx3110x is not good enough Jun 13 16:50:11 Sounds like hildon-desktop isn't starting Jun 13 16:50:15 hmmm httpd is not happy Jun 13 16:52:10 the package httpd needs to be reinstalled, but I cant find the package for it Jun 13 16:52:16 something is screwy Jun 13 16:55:23 apt-get remove cant figure out how to remove the httpd .deb Jun 13 16:55:36 is there some way I can help it figure that out? Jun 13 16:56:22 I know wherer the .deb file is Jun 13 16:56:29 wow this female-female usb adapter is cheap http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2646 Jun 13 16:56:38 is that what i need for a 770 power injector? Jun 13 16:57:59 <||cw> Atarii: you'd have to cut it open, or cut a cable open, to inject the power Jun 13 16:58:43 yea im thinking that with a y-splitter cable Jun 13 16:58:56 other end connected to the power Jun 13 16:59:57 <||cw> hm, do you have to cross the data wires, or does host mode do that for you Jun 13 17:00:19 RST38h, Ever got round to packaging up Slide Rule? :) Jun 13 17:01:51 ||cw im not sure, need someone who has already done it Jun 13 17:02:05 think Freekyfrogy has, but he just left Jun 13 17:02:06 <||cw> I've seen some howto's Jun 13 17:02:19 yea ive read them, but there are so many different ways Jun 13 17:02:36 im trying to go down the non-solder route as much as possible Jun 13 17:02:57 <||cw> good luck with that Jun 13 17:03:05 lol thanks Jun 13 17:03:37 That is quite possibly the longest email reply I've ever had to write Jun 13 17:04:11 lardman, may I offer congratulations for managing? Jun 13 17:04:14 :P Jun 13 17:04:50 I'm not actually managing any more than anyone else, we just thought we should work out how to work out who should manage Jun 13 17:05:26 Holy crap, I know what you mean by the longest, I just did a quick skim :/ Jun 13 17:06:27 well I thought I should at least try to answer Jun 13 17:07:10 ignoring people is rude, but I'm not sure I can handle another one of those Jun 13 17:07:17 Hey, does anybody have Archlinux and Xephyr running? Jun 13 17:09:28 apt-get now stops and complains about a broken httpd .. but cant remove it Jun 13 17:09:35 it appears I have a bg problem Jun 13 17:09:54 because apt-get wont continue Jun 13 17:15:37 hmm Jun 13 17:15:46 the driver is spewing unknown symbols at me Jun 13 17:15:53 like, spi_sync Jun 13 17:16:00 which are there and known I think Jun 13 17:17:03 ah right Jun 13 17:17:11 Nokia hacked the kernel some more Jun 13 17:17:17 the symbols are GPL Jun 13 17:17:49 ah no Jun 13 17:18:01 my hack vs version magic failed Jun 13 17:18:13 I'll better just change the version to the original one Jun 13 17:25:43 yay, it's alive! Jun 13 17:25:59 Brilliant :) Jun 13 17:26:18 Dead Jun 13 17:26:22 deaddeaddead Jun 13 17:26:28 looks like debouncing of screen is a bit broken Jun 13 17:26:38 too dependent on scheduler screwups apparently Jun 13 17:26:46 it's too sensitive now Jun 13 17:27:03 I feel like living in the boonies sort of defeats the purpose of an internet tablet, when wifi is hard to come by on a regular basis Jun 13 17:27:34 summatusmentis, hence, wimax Jun 13 17:27:35 "unable to open" if i go to the mmcs with filrbrowser Jun 13 17:28:15 johnx: that assumes the US market isn't going to screw up wi-max like it has broadband, and put it where there is already infinitely better net connectivity Jun 13 17:28:16 hmm Jun 13 17:28:23 any drags on the touchscreen don't work Jun 13 17:28:42 summatusmentis, well, it'll be interesting to watch :) Jun 13 17:29:07 why the hell don't these work ;P Jun 13 17:29:09 I'm hoping it actaully becomes fully rolled out, then I'll be excited Jun 13 17:29:44 *sigh* some people on maemo-developers mailing list don't seem to understand how that internet thingy works. time to watch soccer instead of sending another useless reply mail... Jun 13 17:30:14 what is this internet you speak of? Jun 13 17:30:26 they do not? Jun 13 17:32:33 ok, I think the debounce time is too short Jun 13 17:32:42 and that thing is in Xomap, not the kernel Jun 13 17:33:49 funny how with CFS everything is loading and working *much* faster Jun 13 17:34:19 that debounce thing is mad Jun 13 17:34:24 need to get at it Jun 13 17:35:12 hm, sound doesn't work, maybe I need to do something ;P Jun 13 17:35:37 like, build ALSA into kernel ;P Jun 13 17:37:17 AStorm: what're you working on? Jun 13 17:37:18 andre___: tell me about it Jun 13 17:37:27 andre___: interesting reply he's sent now Jun 13 17:38:14 summatusmentis: 2.6.21+cfs Jun 13 17:38:19 the new CPU scheduler Jun 13 17:38:41 lardman, interesting - i come to think that he actually believes what he writes. wasn't sure before :) Jun 13 17:39:36 cool, next week we reply to dev threads as tweets :D i look foreward to it, it will save my fingers Jun 13 17:41:34 lcuk, that's a 140 char limit, right? Jun 13 17:41:43 about the same as txt messages? Jun 13 17:42:08 it is the same isnt it - and with the point being you could eventually (/can now) twitter from mobiles Jun 13 17:42:39 someone uses ext2 intern and extern without problems? Jun 13 17:42:55 eichi: it worked here Jun 13 17:43:21 AStorm, you dont get any unable to open dialoges? Jun 13 17:43:37 I did, easy to fix Jun 13 17:43:46 fix mmc-mount script Jun 13 17:44:05 Hmm. I'm porting over my fixed line numbers to asterisk. Now, I'll have three external numbers on my asterisk. I need to start playing with interesting services ;) Jun 13 17:44:07 Nokia really had to screw that one up Jun 13 17:44:13 instead of using fstab as they should be Jun 13 17:44:30 i changed the fstab settings a bit Jun 13 17:44:47 nah, mmc-mount is the script they use to mount mmcs Jun 13 17:44:54 (and so does udev) Jun 13 17:47:59 <||cw> since the cards are optional, having then fstab doens't make sense Jun 13 17:48:22 well Jun 13 17:48:35 then their mmc-mount script needs less vfat and more auto Jun 13 17:50:05 hmm Jun 13 17:50:18 for some reason, usb module is referring to aic33 Jun 13 17:50:20 wtf? Jun 13 17:50:43 oh ffs, I need an email client that can read my mind, and just attach the files I want to attach Jun 13 17:50:53 cf: fstab contains a lot of optional stuff Jun 13 17:51:03 andre___: shame his OT ranting has stopped people from actually replying to the question Jun 13 17:51:18 I _always_ screw up, and send the original email without attaching what I need ot Jun 13 17:51:23 s/ot/to/ Jun 13 17:51:23 summatusmentis meant: I _always_ screw up, and send the original email without attaching what I need to Jun 13 17:52:08 797722966 Jun 13 17:52:20 sry Jun 13 17:52:37 639366 Jun 13 17:52:48 AStorm, is therewhere a tutorial. thread or something? i want to change my mount script Jun 13 17:52:49 12345 Jun 13 17:52:53 :) Jun 13 17:54:11 lardman, right... the classic poisonous people problem :-( Jun 13 17:58:41 summatusmentis Jun 13 17:59:16 i think there's an addon for thunderbird which will check if you have typed "I have attatched..." and then tell you if you havnt attached anything Jun 13 17:59:31 AStorm, can you give me a grep mount /usr/sbin/mount ? Jun 13 18:00:08 Atarii, yes there is, you can add words you would use, if you do an attachmend Jun 13 18:00:10 Atarii: really?!? Jun 13 18:00:12 * summatusmentis checks Jun 13 18:00:29 ... Jun 13 18:00:37 eichi: mmc-mount Jun 13 18:00:55 666 666 666! Jun 13 18:01:02 AStorm, that is, what i mean :P Jun 13 18:01:13 what for? Jun 13 18:01:17 it's just a mount line Jun 13 18:01:38 hey guys Jun 13 18:01:51 heh lardman - darius talking about overlords running the show: looks like he has run into google groups limits on number of groups he can create. Jun 13 18:03:04 he is trying to ink an agreement in person with google :D Jun 13 18:03:20 hey, is there any reason why a usb hard drive would not work with an internet tablet? Jun 13 18:03:42 which tablet and is it powered? Jun 13 18:03:44 Freekyfrogy, the one I can think of is power requirements Jun 13 18:03:49 the n800 Jun 13 18:04:08 yeah, that makes sense Jun 13 18:04:10 the way the nokia maemo mounts a device, shows me, that there _is_ a way to f**k linux up Jun 13 18:04:30 could you use a solid state drive? Jun 13 18:04:32 eichi: what do you mean? Jun 13 18:04:51 or a flash drive even. Jun 13 18:04:52 USB OTG supplies at maximum 100ma to devices, as long as the device uses less than this (which a proper otg device should) and you have drivers for it, then there is no reason why you can't run anything from the usb Jun 13 18:04:52 Freekyfrogy: if you add a powered hub, it should work Jun 13 18:05:05 Hmm...(idle question) Does maemo actually handle drive automounting differently than most current desktop distros Jun 13 18:05:11 konttori_, linux uses the fstab for mounting options Jun 13 18:05:16 johnx: it does Jun 13 18:05:19 otg works nicely with powered hub. Jun 13 18:05:28 it doesn't use pmount, like it should Jun 13 18:05:38 it uses hand-crafted scripts instead Jun 13 18:05:40 AStorm, ok, then I'll agree with eichi: It's screwed up. Jun 13 18:05:47 Atarii: you've just saved my life Jun 13 18:06:04 and what do scripts use? Jun 13 18:06:19 plain old mount Jun 13 18:06:23 ok, so just check to make sure the device runs on less than 100ma Jun 13 18:06:25 thanks Jun 13 18:06:26 with -t vfat Jun 13 18:06:30 ;) Jun 13 18:06:31 and a bunch of options Jun 13 18:06:43 umgh Jun 13 18:06:44 Freekyfrogy: that's not enough Jun 13 18:06:54 it has to be on the OTG whitelist to work by default Jun 13 18:07:10 * lcuk is on the OTG whitelist Jun 13 18:07:12 * lcuk goes Jun 13 18:07:38 is there any way to see what's on the whitelist? Jun 13 18:07:45 yes, it's in the kernel Jun 13 18:07:52 and the whitelisting can be disabled Jun 13 18:08:02 RST38bis, the script do "all the steps" you do if you mount manually Jun 13 18:08:21 RST38bis, but linux has managed this easy, clear and high configurable Jun 13 18:08:30 but they dont use it Jun 13 18:08:37 * Freekyfrogy thanks you Jun 13 18:08:52 * Freekyfrogy does tha chicken dance Jun 13 18:09:26 hmm, n800defconfig is fail Jun 13 18:09:30 eichi: can't you add the same options to fstab and use mount? Jun 13 18:09:41 oh hey, anyone know thoughtfix's email? I couldn't find it anywhere Jun 13 18:09:50 RST38bis: well, he wants auto Jun 13 18:09:58 I'd actually put pmount on the device Jun 13 18:10:03 AStorm, now the external one works without error Jun 13 18:10:05 and make udev use it Jun 13 18:10:12 but where is the internal sd card mounted? Jun 13 18:11:11 at /media/mmc Jun 13 18:11:29 astorm: if it is possible to create fstab entry then you can always make it auto Jun 13 18:11:58 RST38bis: trick is it isn't possible Jun 13 18:12:06 not w/o major changes at least Jun 13 18:12:35 AStorm, yes sorry, wrong question ;) where is the internal sd card mount script ;) Jun 13 18:12:48 like wrapping mount into a script? Jun 13 18:12:56 eichi: it's the same Jun 13 18:13:09 RST38bis: no, like rewriting mmc-* Jun 13 18:13:21 that will understand vfat fstab entries? Jun 13 18:13:48 actually, there are no fstab entries Jun 13 18:13:52 why do you need to rewrite mmc? Jun 13 18:13:54 it has the mount command hardcoded Jun 13 18:13:57 hm i got the uable to open message againt Jun 13 18:13:59 again Jun 13 18:14:01 the scripts are stupid junk Jun 13 18:14:12 but i can create files etc on it Jun 13 18:14:20 maybe only the error massage is an error Jun 13 18:14:53 umgh^2 Jun 13 18:26:19 ok, starting from defconfig made sound work Jun 13 18:26:24 time for more haxx Jun 13 18:26:59 blah, not white screen again... Jun 13 18:30:39 ok, now I get crashes ;P Jun 13 18:30:43 let's see why Jun 13 18:31:17 Someone should make this work on the n810: http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/13/korgs-nanoseries-shrinks-your-music-studio/ Jun 13 18:31:41 Wham and you have nice portable music studio. Jun 13 18:31:52 hm, defconfig has MUX disabled for some reason Jun 13 18:31:55 that can't work ;P Jun 13 18:32:10 n810 usb otg might have enough juice to power that kb without powered hub Jun 13 18:32:27 at least it has enough juice to run my wireless kb Jun 13 18:32:29 konttori_, that would be pretty awesome actually Jun 13 18:33:34 anyways, quick poll: How dumb of an idea is it to solicit potential FAQ entries for the wiki from ITT users? (I'm thinking of basically asking them to respond to the thread or maybe add to the FAQ page.) Jun 13 18:37:11 lcuk_afk: lol Jun 13 18:37:39 johnx: I didn't get that. Jun 13 18:37:44 what do you mean? Jun 13 18:38:18 sounds good enough Jun 13 18:38:19 the only catch is that mostt acctive itt users are all here on this channel ;) Jun 13 18:38:24 I'm thinking of making a big post on ITT "What needs to be in the FAQ?" and seeing what people say and trying to clean it up into a real FAQ Jun 13 18:38:34 Sure. makes sense to me Jun 13 18:38:36 RST38bis, I aim to get the new users in on this Jun 13 18:38:55 as in "What did you not know that was hard to figure out?" Jun 13 18:39:42 johnx, you may want to take a different approach Jun 13 18:40:06 I'm open to suggestions Jun 13 18:40:11 that's why I asked here :) Jun 13 18:40:19 can i ask: at linuxtag, Kate Alhola was up with us and she is involved in the forum nokia setup - do normal users live there and bypass maemo or is it a deserted wasteland for NITs? Jun 13 18:40:38 instead of soliciting comments simply go through existing posts and see what popular questions are Jun 13 18:40:58 RST38bis, yes, instead of having users come to me I could spend days going through forum posts Jun 13 18:41:09 forum nokia is mostly s60 Jun 13 18:41:22 hmm, and now I get no sound, but it started Jun 13 18:41:28 wtf is happening? Jun 13 18:41:30 lcuk_afk: forum nokia is mainly targeted for business developers Jun 13 18:41:40 and mostly commercial devs Jun 13 18:41:57 so, the fact that maemo is having a presence there means nokia is looking to get businesses involved in maemo Jun 13 18:41:58 RST38bis, if Nokia paid me, I'd be happy to, but I'm trying to strike a balance between my sanity and getting a more updated FAQ for new users :) Jun 13 18:42:04 johnx, not really Jun 13 18:42:43 konttori_, i dont see anything wrong with that at all - i just have this image of one or two lonely forum posters going "hello, is anybody out there?" Jun 13 18:43:13 rather than waiting for days for people to come to your thread you can spend an hour looking at recent thread list Jun 13 18:43:47 at the nokia forum.. well, nokia forum is also a place to store documentation and sdks for the developers. They also have a paid subscriber section where nokia personnel are paid to find answers for whatever questions you have in mind Jun 13 18:43:56 lcuk, that is because there is no business dev for maemo Jun 13 18:44:15 not much yet, that's true Jun 13 18:44:17 much a shame Jun 13 18:44:23 but it's a good time to get into the game Jun 13 18:44:28 it's a growing platform Jun 13 18:44:38 good time for smaller companies to secure foothold Jun 13 18:44:47 * lcuk_afk agrees :) Jun 13 18:44:47 * RST38bis considered charging for vgba byt decided against it Jun 13 18:44:57 I just updated to latest OS2008 Jun 13 18:45:01 where has netcat gone? Jun 13 18:45:10 into a separate package Jun 13 18:45:18 named? Jun 13 18:45:52 timeless: love the crypto tale! Jun 13 18:45:59 konttori: unless there is large enough user base, there will not be commercial stuff Jun 13 18:46:02 it depends upon application and awareness, if a business can find utility in these little devices which suits them then a deployment in the thousands to employees running custom software would be a nice thing Jun 13 18:46:47 lcuk, custom software is different Jun 13 18:47:34 custom software is just the same as regular software except its only used by a select group of individuals Jun 13 18:47:48 hmm, w/o MUX sound works Jun 13 18:47:53 sure, you could use my bespoke tax calc package if you like, but it will give wrong figures for your company Jun 13 18:48:06 (or something...) Jun 13 18:48:20 but then, the rest of the system doesn't Jun 13 18:48:36 something is really fishy with this kernel Jun 13 18:49:25 RST38bis, you wrote an emulator - you may not be able to charge because there are lots of other alternative emulators. would it be such an easy decision if you have written something which didnt exist yet? Jun 13 18:49:45 (or was it not an easy decision? Jun 13 18:49:46 lcuk, to have commercial developers develop for nits you need a general app market, custom stuff exists separately Jun 13 18:50:10 who has the true defconfig for n810? Jun 13 18:50:17 the config of the default kernel Jun 13 18:50:26 lcuk, yes it would still be the same Jun 13 18:50:29 not one for n800, it's different enough (e.g. touchscreen) Jun 13 18:50:45 and I don't want to be playing guess on 2^6 options Jun 13 18:51:50 hmm...very interesting that there is only an rx34 kernel source package on repository.maemo.org Jun 13 18:51:56 lcuk, I have no prroblems chharging for stuff even if there are free alternatives, as i believe my stuff is usually better :) Jun 13 18:52:08 also, I thought it was possible to compile a kernel that worked for both Jun 13 18:52:12 it is Jun 13 18:52:23 the trick is I don't have the default config of n810 kernel Jun 13 18:52:24 * lcuk_afk raises a glass to that sentiment rst :) Jun 13 18:52:30 AStorm: there's no nc package Jun 13 18:52:41 Astro: really? I think there is Jun 13 18:52:45 installed it myself Jun 13 18:52:47 but if there are only a few potential buyers then it is pointless anyway Jun 13 18:53:13 it depends on whether it gives experience or if you have other things to keep you occupied Jun 13 18:53:27 AStorm: which repository? Jun 13 18:53:48 hmm Jun 13 18:53:58 oh, http://repository.maemo.org/ ? Jun 13 18:54:00 what did i do to my nick..? Jun 13 18:54:58 Astro: extras afaicr Jun 13 18:54:58 anyway, i must dash i am already late Jun 13 18:55:07 lcuk: one thing that normally suffers when you go from paid to free is support thouggh Jun 13 18:55:22 is gronmayer still down? Jun 13 18:55:57 I am often forced to put request of free users to the end of todo list Jun 13 18:56:08 requests from Jun 13 18:56:14 AStorm, seems up here Jun 13 18:56:25 astorm: try mpa instead Jun 13 18:56:26 Astro: then use gronmayer Jun 13 18:56:37 RST38bis: hmmm? Jun 13 18:56:39 mpa? Jun 13 18:56:58 astorm: fms.komkon.org/Maemo Jun 13 18:57:11 aka Pack Rat Jun 13 18:57:12 Hi guys! Jun 13 18:57:15 ah, no Jun 13 18:57:16 thanks for the insight rst :) i really must be off. i will no doubt continue this or related at a later date Jun 13 18:57:21 I don't need it ;P Jun 13 18:57:31 anyway, I want the config of default n810 kernel Jun 13 18:57:51 because 20 questions is not enough for kernel options ;P Jun 13 18:57:59 do you know of any tutorial or doc where to know how to speed a bit/disable some services from a n810 ? Jun 13 18:58:11 hehe Jun 13 18:58:11 dererk: not much to do Jun 13 18:58:20 maybe metalayer-crawler0 Jun 13 18:58:26 that one! Jun 13 18:58:41 that is taking me most of the cpu process top Jun 13 18:58:48 drat Jun 13 18:58:57 how to get both sound and system working, hmm? Jun 13 18:58:57 AStorm, does it have anything to do with usb link? Jun 13 18:59:03 * lardman is unsure as to whether he should answer emails any more Jun 13 18:59:11 dererk: no Jun 13 18:59:15 may I remind you that continuous recompilatioon of linux kernel is bad for your social life?;) Jun 13 18:59:15 only with scanning media Jun 13 18:59:17 ok.. if anyone cares.. I unstuck the httpd package Jun 13 18:59:17 does the extended memory makes the n800 faster or is it only some kind of swap? Jun 13 18:59:22 RST38bis: indeed Jun 13 18:59:25 it was breaking apt-get! Jun 13 18:59:31 AStorm: suddenly it's there, thank you! Jun 13 18:59:31 that's why I'm doing it only rarely Jun 13 18:59:36 RST38bis, heh Jun 13 18:59:43 eichi: it is swap, and it makes it faster ;P Jun 13 18:59:49 the .conf file had the authors home dir in as ServerRoot Jun 13 18:59:54 dererk, it does scan any cards or usb stick you plug in Jun 13 18:59:56 eichi, just swap Jun 13 19:00:04 all the operations tried to stop httpd first, and got stuck Jun 13 19:00:07 johnx, uhm Jun 13 19:00:14 ~lart Nokia for not giving out n810 defconfig Jun 13 19:00:15 * infobot duct-tapes Nokia to the floor and drools on him for not giving out n810 defconfig Jun 13 19:00:15 then I can't use it to read from it :/ Jun 13 19:00:24 dererk, hmm? Jun 13 19:00:43 johnx, I meant that if I disabled it, I wont be able to read sticjs Jun 13 19:00:45 sticks* Jun 13 19:00:50 dererk, nope Jun 13 19:00:54 thanks Jun 13 19:00:57 all it does is *scan* for music Jun 13 19:01:24 I mean, plugging in cards/usb sticks will work fine with metalayer-crawler disabled Jun 13 19:01:29 AStorm: do they not? Jun 13 19:01:45 AStorm: is there a bug filed against that? Jun 13 19:01:46 yes, they don't Jun 13 19:01:50 (whoever invented suck a long name for metalayer-crawler needs to be larted...) Jun 13 19:01:52 I don't think so. Jun 13 19:02:07 go for it! :) Jun 13 19:02:13 btw, once the evil media scanner is disabled how does default player find new music? Jun 13 19:02:21 RST38bis, it doesn't Jun 13 19:02:23 johnx, but I wont be able to read FROM them, would I? Jun 13 19:02:51 dererk, all it does is make a list of the music/videos on the card and display it in media player Jun 13 19:02:53 johnx, no manual method? Jun 13 19:02:59 hmm Jun 13 19:03:07 RST38bis, maybe file -> open? Jun 13 19:03:08 unfunny that TSC2005 doesn't build Jun 13 19:03:12 or open from file manager Jun 13 19:03:13 yet is required for n810 Jun 13 19:03:13 RST38bis: you can open a location from the menu Jun 13 19:03:20 I suspect nokia is cheating somehow Jun 13 19:03:30 johnx: more like open from fm... Jun 13 19:03:37 e.g. hadn't released some needed patches (the kernel source itself is not enough) Jun 13 19:03:43 lardman: ah, ok Jun 13 19:03:52 What's TSC2005? Jun 13 19:04:08 lardman: touchscreen chip Jun 13 19:04:15 of n810 Jun 13 19:04:21 n800 uses TSC2301 in that role Jun 13 19:04:26 and the kernel code won't build? Jun 13 19:04:31 exactly Jun 13 19:04:45 sumbit a bug please Jun 13 19:04:56 funny that sound doesn't work once I disable OMAP_MUX Jun 13 19:05:15 while if I enable that, the device doesn't fully boot (dies at X) Jun 13 19:05:47 Rare male sea dragon pregnant (c)cnn Jun 13 19:05:58 AStorm: There appear to be problems, please submit a bug listing them and I trust it will be sorted out asap Jun 13 19:06:06 Hopefully Jun 13 19:06:17 AStorm, what does it say as it dies? Jun 13 19:06:18 johnx, thanks Jun 13 19:06:25 I'd like Nokia to build cx3110x against 2.6.26-rc-omap Jun 13 19:06:26 AStorm: yes of course, but no bug and nothing will happen... Jun 13 19:06:30 johnx: nothing, white screen Jun 13 19:06:31 :> Jun 13 19:06:44 AStorm, goes from printing messages to white screen?! Jun 13 19:06:47 ow Jun 13 19:06:55 johnx: no, it's not printing messages duh Jun 13 19:07:08 why not? Jun 13 19:07:11 I'll reenable FB and see if it still reaches X in normal setup Jun 13 19:07:28 *reenable FB console Jun 13 19:08:15 though also, the x server draws a white screen when first launched of course...heh Jun 13 19:08:19 makes it hard to tell Jun 13 19:10:45 it doesn't die Jun 13 19:11:00 the power button brings up the power menu sometimes Jun 13 19:11:07 craziness Jun 13 19:11:08 it hangs after X server is started Jun 13 19:11:12 I'm having trouble getting my TreeViewColumn titles to show up, even in sample PyGTK scripts? Jun 13 19:11:14 any ideas? Jun 13 19:13:00 AStorm, aaah...I see now Jun 13 19:14:25 ok, w/o mux the eac dsptask doesn't start Jun 13 19:14:39 /dev/dsptask/pcm1 doesn't exist Jun 13 19:14:48 i think this web cam thing really wants motion installed Jun 13 19:14:56 or any other Jun 13 19:15:00 I see there is a motion on sourceforge Jun 13 19:15:03 johnx, you don't know by chance an App like gconf but to enable/disable services, do you? Jun 13 19:15:15 but its there a maemo specific one I shuold use? search garage? Jun 13 19:15:35 I've just moved/removed symlinks from runlevels and works perfect, but there are some apps I don't use I don't wont to startup automatically Jun 13 19:15:35 better search gronmayer Jun 13 19:15:36 dererk, there is one for debian, but I don't know about maemo Jun 13 19:16:03 apparently yes.. garage Jun 13 19:16:14 dererk, any front end you find will just be moving symlinks around Jun 13 19:16:29 * johnx sleeps Jun 13 19:16:32 johnx, I supposed so Jun 13 19:16:48 I just can't find the right ones, like telepaty Jun 13 19:16:57 (or whatever it's written) Jun 13 19:17:05 ok, now I started DSP Jun 13 19:17:15 for some reason, it didn't start automatically... Jun 13 19:17:38 nokia have a services control panel which uses update-rc.d Jun 13 19:17:45 night johnx Jun 13 19:18:13 johnx, g'night pal Jun 13 19:19:14 ok, w/o MUX dsp just crashes Jun 13 19:19:23 wonder why defconfig has that off Jun 13 19:20:00 uhm, I mean w/ MUX Jun 13 19:20:39 AStorm: so you have sounds now? Jun 13 19:20:47 no Jun 13 19:20:54 dsp kernel crashed on me Jun 13 19:21:08 story of my life :) Jun 13 19:21:10 maybe it's related to DSP Pausing option Jun 13 19:21:35 it's not there in the defconfig at all for some reason ;P Jun 13 19:22:11 I'll add more DSP debug Jun 13 19:22:30 have you compiled the vanilla dsp_kernel? Jun 13 19:22:50 anyone know if this would be a suitable cable for 770 power injection? http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13526 Jun 13 19:22:58 hey Jun 13 19:23:03 well, the webcam returns the finnish word for webcam !! Jun 13 19:23:08 I guess thats progress Jun 13 19:23:15 no pictures though Jun 13 19:23:29 I think the porter was Finnish :/ Jun 13 19:23:58 lardman: no Jun 13 19:24:08 I'm using what nokia gave us Jun 13 19:24:14 Ah, ok Jun 13 19:24:19 and the damn thing crashes on me Jun 13 19:24:24 for no reason at all Jun 13 19:24:30 :) Jun 13 19:24:37 what does it say in dmesg? Jun 13 19:24:39 just a new kernel ;P Jun 13 19:24:42 now I'll check Jun 13 19:25:07 hmm Jun 13 19:25:12 What version of dsp_dld are you using? Jun 13 19:25:12 seems to be up no Jun 13 19:25:14 *now Jun 13 19:25:26 lardman: one in 2007.50 or so Jun 13 19:25:29 and does your new kernel use dspgateway 3.3.1 as opposed to 3,1? Jun 13 19:25:31 chinook 4.0.1 Jun 13 19:25:36 probably no Jun 13 19:25:48 it's 2.6.21 with nokia patchset Jun 13 19:26:05 dsp_dld is dependent of the version of dspgateway (which is in the kernel mainline now iirc) Jun 13 19:26:26 so you're using the same kernel version as the standard machine? Jun 13 19:26:35 hopefully Jun 13 19:26:40 with CFS patched in Jun 13 19:26:47 ok, so shouldn't be troubles from incompat code then Jun 13 19:26:50 he says :) Jun 13 19:26:55 doh! the cgi isnt there Jun 13 19:27:11 lardman: hmmm Jun 13 19:27:11 AStorm: have you tried the N800 defconfig? Jun 13 19:27:16 yes, it can't work Jun 13 19:27:26 n810 needs RX44 support plus more Jun 13 19:27:35 TSC2005 for touchscreen among others Jun 13 19:27:41 and AIC33 for audio to even build Jun 13 19:27:57 I thought all the audio stuff was done on the DSP? Jun 13 19:28:05 as to DSP - I see a lot of MMU stuff going on before it dies Jun 13 19:28:17 lardman: yes, but I need it for EAC to build for some reason Jun 13 19:28:17 yeah probably unmapping the shared regions Jun 13 19:28:24 otherwise I get unresolved symbols Jun 13 19:28:28 so dsp_dld does work then Jun 13 19:28:37 but it crashed Jun 13 19:28:44 all the devices disappeared Jun 13 19:29:01 can you see the message just before it crashes and the unmapping & remapping comes out? Jun 13 19:29:10 polling error did you say? Jun 13 19:29:19 yes Jun 13 19:29:24 poll error Jun 13 19:29:28 error from omapdsp ? Jun 13 19:29:32 yes Jun 13 19:30:18 another thing is even with my build hack, TSC2005 works erratically Jun 13 19:30:25 I see that if I crash the dsp kernel, but I can't think why you should get it Jun 13 19:30:30 as in, no debounce Jun 13 19:30:38 AStorm: no idea, sorry Jun 13 19:30:40 lardman: I don't know either Jun 13 19:31:06 AStorm: do you start the dsp + dsp_dld in the usual way (using the Nokia init.d scripts)? Jun 13 19:31:21 it did start at the system startup, so yes Jun 13 19:31:33 but crashed after using mplayer Jun 13 19:31:47 the system startup sound didn't play either Jun 13 19:31:53 oh, so the dsp crashes after using mplayer? Jun 13 19:31:58 no, on any sound Jun 13 19:32:10 yeah, well that's not so unexpected Jun 13 19:32:26 wth EAC requires AIC33 here? Jun 13 19:32:27 you have gstreamer setup? Jun 13 19:32:44 well, the default setup hopefully Jun 13 19:33:11 as in you built an image or you just flashed a new kernel on top of the existing rootfs? Jun 13 19:33:36 latter Jun 13 19:33:46 ok fine, rules out lots of stuff then Jun 13 19:33:49 existing and *working with original kernel* rootfs Jun 13 19:33:51 :> Jun 13 19:33:59 so the crash is 100% kernel-related Jun 13 19:34:07 trick is, I can't see what broke Jun 13 19:34:14 cool, just trying to work out where you are Jun 13 19:34:46 how do I canonically restart the dsp_dld? Jun 13 19:34:56 just run dsp_dld at the term Jun 13 19:35:06 run "dsp_dld -p" to stop it daemonising Jun 13 19:35:52 need to give it a path to config file (/lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf, right?) Jun 13 19:36:50 well if you symlink /lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf to dsp_dld.conf you can just run the command alone Jun 13 19:37:16 as the latter is the default name; that's what I do anyway to avoid too much typing Jun 13 19:37:30 no problem with spelling it out Jun 13 19:37:39 trick is... it just got poll error Jun 13 19:37:43 and sent SIGBUS Jun 13 19:38:07 I can't work out what's with the poll errors either Jun 13 19:38:44 the worst thing from my point of view is that if the kernel can't poll a task (different type of polling, the other is ARM->DSP) it causes a bus error in the dsp kernel! Jun 13 19:38:46 even changing the volume throws in a poll error Jun 13 19:39:13 you say... can't poll a task... Jun 13 19:39:23 can this be related to a scheduler change? Jun 13 19:39:29 or lack of IPC namespaces? Jun 13 19:39:42 yeah, the dsp kernel polls each dsp task; the ARM kernel also polls the DSP kernel (my understanding anyway) Jun 13 19:40:22 hm Jun 13 19:40:26 So this is the same kernel code, just that you lack a defconfig? Jun 13 19:40:36 I'll try enabling DMA drain to see if that help Jun 13 19:40:38 *helps Jun 13 19:40:45 lardman: close to same Jun 13 19:40:59 I dunno.. cgis return no error.. but no image.. enough for now Jun 13 19:40:59 it's same code with CFS backport thrown in Jun 13 19:41:02 AStorm: patches? But not to the ARM kernel DSP stuff? Jun 13 19:41:06 ok Jun 13 19:41:09 no, not to the ARM DSP stuff Jun 13 19:41:54 I've just added DVFS support to have extra debug Jun 13 19:41:59 AStorm: It's probably some defconfig option then, I'd be surprised if it's a lack in the kernel source Jun 13 19:42:13 trick is, this defconfig is missing some options Jun 13 19:42:17 as it stands Jun 13 19:42:24 totally missing Jun 13 19:42:24 AStorm: Otherwise you'll have to add printks to the ARM DSP stuff - time consuming Jun 13 19:42:35 hm Jun 13 19:42:37 AStorm: stick in a bug, please Jun 13 19:42:56 about lack of n810 defconfig? Jun 13 19:43:05 which page? Jun 13 19:43:20 bugs.maemo.org Jun 13 19:43:21 iirc Jun 13 19:43:24 perhaps without the s Jun 13 19:46:38 AStorm, if defconfig was missing applicable options, make would ask questions Jun 13 19:46:58 yes Jun 13 19:47:02 and it does Jun 13 19:47:34 Are you still trying to get newer kernel running? Jun 13 19:49:49 currently, 2.6.21, but +CFS Jun 13 19:49:56 it is running except sound Jun 13 19:50:02 (actually, DSP crashes) Jun 13 19:50:29 lardman: I'll check if 2.6.21-nokia w/o CFS also shows these DSP crashes Jun 13 19:50:48 AStorm: cool Jun 13 19:50:49 if it doesn't, I guess the culprit is nokia doing task polling in a wrong way Jun 13 19:51:38 not task, dsp polling Jun 13 19:51:49 as you will only have made changes to the arm kernel Jun 13 19:52:05 but even then I'd be surprised, as it withstands cpufreq & dyntick Jun 13 19:54:49 My q is that if this is just nokia kernel with Cfs (which i understand to be cryptfs), then why is dsp messing up? (unless this isn't nokia kernel?). Just curious... Jun 13 19:55:48 lardman: but it may withstand them only due to some heavy hack Jun 13 19:55:59 which may not work under CFS Jun 13 19:56:08 AStorm: yep, I'm interested to see what you find Jun 13 19:56:22 qwerty12_N800: That is the $64,000 question Jun 13 19:57:41 hm, DVFS doesn't boot, at all ;P Jun 13 19:57:45 lardman, £120,000 please! :p. Nah, I've added in unionfs etc w/out any problems, just wondering why a simple thing like a fs would mess with dsp Jun 13 19:58:47 qwerty12_N800: exchange rate goes the other way thank God (otherwise my trip next month would be very very expensive) ;) Jun 13 19:58:51 qwerty12_N800: not FS, dummy Jun 13 19:58:54 CFS is the CPU scheduler Jun 13 19:59:25 oh! I saw cryptfs as first google result :/ Jun 13 19:59:30 AStorm: ah, I made the same mistake Jun 13 19:59:37 google Completely Fair Scheduler then Jun 13 19:59:42 lardman, heh Jun 13 19:59:46 * lardman punishes himself with 10min extra DSP programming Jun 13 19:59:57 * qwerty12_N800 just shrugs Jun 13 20:00:47 Anyway, hope you sort out the cfs stuff, current one sucks balls. Jun 13 20:01:22 it works, almost ;P Jun 13 20:01:39 except that DSP crashes and touchscreen sucks balls ;P Jun 13 20:01:53 this ball sucking is possibly due to debounce not working Jun 13 20:02:15 I see hacks piled on hacks piled on hacks Jun 13 20:02:28 If you ever get round releasing your current work, I wouldn't mind trying it out on n800 ( different touchscreen iirc) Jun 13 20:02:30 Nokia would do us best by switching to 2.6.26-omap once that it out Jun 13 20:02:42 qwerty12_N800: well, just apply the CFS patch Jun 13 20:03:06 http://people.redhat.com/mingo/cfs-scheduler/ Jun 13 20:03:10 goes in almost cleanly Jun 13 20:03:19 the minor rejects can be easily fixed by hand Jun 13 20:03:26 Thanks, I'll try tomorrow (hello weekend) Jun 13 20:05:40 * qwerty12_N800 has pins and needles in me left arm. I blame my n800. Jun 13 20:05:58 Just spotted a schoolboy error in my DSP code Jun 13 20:06:29 heh Jun 13 20:06:32 Detention for you lardman Jun 13 20:06:34 sleep more Jun 13 20:06:46 detention, you work your whole weekend on DSP code Jun 13 20:07:02 qwerty12_N800: that would be great, a whole hour with nothing to do but read :) Jun 13 20:07:25 AStorm: yeah, but problems like these are moreish - I find it hard to go to bed while my brain is buzzing Jun 13 20:07:37 Heh, wish my school detentions were like that :p Jun 13 20:07:41 still early here anyway Jun 13 20:07:59 qwerty12_N800: My school prep was like that - I've never read so many books, was great Jun 13 20:08:04 well, enabling DMA flush got me a white screen Jun 13 20:09:09 I'll try again w/o MUX Jun 13 20:09:54 AStorm: have you tried running a kernel built with the n800 defconfig? Jun 13 20:10:05 yes, it wouldn't boot ;P Jun 13 20:10:09 need RX44 support ;P Jun 13 20:10:22 AStorm: I seem to remember seeing reference in the initial dmesg of the newer touch screen driver Jun 13 20:10:23 other than that, touchscreen and keyboard wouldn't work Jun 13 20:10:31 oh, well that rules that out then Jun 13 20:11:05 I need a phyical reset button Jun 13 20:11:41 and a USB cable with a toggle ;P Jun 13 20:12:26 also, a power supply with a switch Jun 13 20:14:25 as to tsc2005 not working correctly - it happens in default maemo too Jun 13 20:14:30 unless you renice Xomap to 0 Jun 13 20:14:40 (though is much less pronounced) Jun 13 20:14:55 I think tsc2005 isn't debounced at all Jun 13 20:14:59 and they didn't notice it Jun 13 20:15:13 because old scheduler rescheduled it not often enough Jun 13 20:16:50 I get multiple "clicks" per one Jun 13 20:16:55 and dragging doesn't work at all ;P Jun 13 20:19:10 ok, found one minor race condition in irq handler already Jun 13 20:19:17 first sets a flag, then disables irq ;P Jun 13 20:20:00 still, it's crazy, what it's doing Jun 13 20:20:09 I have the horrible feeling I'll have to do some looking at kernel code, and on the n810 too Jun 13 20:20:37 * Timer is called every TSC2005_TS_SCAN_TIME when the pen is down Jun 13 20:20:44 they want that to be true, but... Jun 13 20:20:44 bloody thing gets stuck after X transfers, and although the DSP has finished processing and should have returned, and the ARM should be sending, nothing gets though Jun 13 20:21:06 mod_timer(&ts->timer, jiffies + Jun 13 20:21:06 msecs_to_jiffies(TSC2005_TS_SCAN_TIME)); Jun 13 20:21:20 which is horribly *wrong* on recent kernels Jun 13 20:21:24 Anyone experimented problems using Skype on N810? Jun 13 20:21:33 dererk: yes, it breaks when CPU is loaded Jun 13 20:21:34 I get a "error recording" Jun 13 20:21:38 ah, that, no Jun 13 20:23:28 drivers/spi/tsc2005.c:586: error: ‘struct tsc2005_platform_data’ has no member named ‘ts_max_pressure’ heh Jun 13 20:23:31 the build error Jun 13 20:23:40 need to hack around it better Jun 13 20:24:28 I'll set it to MAX_12BIT now Jun 13 20:24:45 huh... Jun 13 20:24:49 sound now... worked?! Jun 13 20:25:00 yes, definitely Jun 13 20:25:07 what did I change in the kernel config? Jun 13 20:25:26 lol Jun 13 20:25:32 ts enables sound :) Jun 13 20:25:43 no no Jun 13 20:25:58 I enabled... UTS Namespaces and IPC Namespaces Jun 13 20:26:09 I suspect one of these is used. Jun 13 20:26:20 ok, so now fix tsc2005 and we're home Jun 13 20:27:38 wait no Jun 13 20:27:42 I disabled OMAP_MUX Jun 13 20:27:56 but it didn't boot w/o that earlier.. now it did? Jun 13 20:28:00 hmmhmm Jun 13 20:28:55 ok, definitely, OMAP_MUX is broken Jun 13 20:29:17 while my tsc2005 hacks don't help Jun 13 20:29:37 no, they did help Jun 13 20:29:40 somewhat Jun 13 20:30:00 dragging now works Jun 13 20:30:03 I win Jun 13 20:30:11 progress then :) Jun 13 20:30:43 yawn... Jun 13 20:30:46 AStorm 1 - Nokia 0 Jun 13 20:31:01 Ok, who wants the .config? Jun 13 20:31:09 me me me Jun 13 20:31:18 still, short taps don't work correctly Jun 13 20:31:24 it gets multiple ones ;P Jun 13 20:31:35 but, dragging works, and that's the most important thing Jun 13 20:33:19 ok, http://astralstorm.bounceme.net/n810/.config Jun 13 20:33:40 you need a slight tweak in the tsc2005, can't provide a diff Jun 13 20:33:47 ta Jun 13 20:33:48 how do I undo local changes and go back to svn head? Jun 13 20:33:51 just remove that part of the if that makes it break Jun 13 20:34:04 lardman: svn revert? Jun 13 20:34:13 or just svn co -f? Jun 13 20:34:31 cool, thanks Jun 13 20:34:37 yes, svn revert Jun 13 20:35:11 I shall now check if canola works better Jun 13 20:36:34 bites as usual (vs normal mplayer) Jun 13 20:36:36 or even more Jun 13 20:37:36 well, that might be gst output ;P Jun 13 20:37:39 I'll try esd one Jun 13 20:39:13 hmm Jun 13 20:39:17 2.6.26 works? Jun 13 20:39:21 no Jun 13 20:39:25 2.6.21+cfs does Jun 13 20:39:32 2.6.26 won't work with cx3110x Jun 13 20:41:19 hmm Jun 13 20:41:26 with +cfs omapfb always fails Jun 13 20:41:45 who was it in here a while ago talking about funambol? Jun 13 20:41:50 or maybe it's just that "no manual update" default Jun 13 20:41:59 anyone tried 2.6.26-omap without cx3110x? Jun 13 20:43:20 Astro: I did Jun 13 20:43:25 it booted to a white screen Jun 13 20:43:38 I have nearly no idea what I changed, but it screwed up the encoder, back to svn head thank God Jun 13 20:43:50 some guy at linux-omap ML told me I'd have to rebuild Xomap against new headers Jun 13 20:43:53 but I doubt it Jun 13 20:44:04 I suspect it was that OMAP_MUX which kills DSP Jun 13 20:44:34 AStorm: I'll bear it in mind. I should be able to skip my foray into N810 kernel for the time being, but let me know how you get on Jun 13 20:44:42 qwerty12_N800: note: this .config won't work flawlessly Jun 13 20:44:56 to make it so, enable "default to manual screen update" Jun 13 20:44:59 and disable fbcon Jun 13 20:45:10 otherwise mplayer will have problems (omapfb or not) Jun 13 20:45:17 ok Jun 13 20:45:25 lcuk: ping Jun 13 20:45:53 astorm: that can be changed runtime Jun 13 20:46:03 see fanoush's util Jun 13 20:46:29 yes, it works Jun 13 20:46:36 it is getting changed by Xomap Jun 13 20:46:46 but it's still buggy ;P Jun 13 20:48:47 I'll test 2.6.26-omap with this config more Jun 13 20:49:08 If I get it up to speed, we may try petitioning Nokia for an update of cx3110x Jun 13 20:49:16 hmm Jun 13 20:49:23 as for speed try gtk-perf Jun 13 20:49:27 got a white screen again... Jun 13 20:49:29 or whatever was the util name Jun 13 20:49:33 to get numbers Jun 13 20:49:54 in fact we should prepare some benchmark suite for nit Jun 13 20:51:19 it blocked either due to manual update Jun 13 20:51:24 or due to "check bootloader initialization" Jun 13 20:52:30 damn, it's +30C and i have a runny nose Jun 13 20:53:09 allergy? Jun 13 20:53:16 don't know Jun 13 20:53:22 i hate it though Jun 13 20:53:40 hm, it booted now, but no start sound for some reason Jun 13 20:53:43 hot curry? Jun 13 20:53:48 and when i try to run nwn under linux it reboots my x session Jun 13 20:53:50 bleah. Jun 13 20:53:58 KotCzarny: check today date ;P Jun 13 20:54:05 nope Jun 13 20:54:09 30C, it's only 15C here! Jun 13 20:54:11 it was crashing earlier too Jun 13 20:54:13 was gonna say same :p Jun 13 20:54:17 lardman: lucky! Jun 13 20:54:39 it's 30C in the shade Jun 13 20:54:43 lardman, lucky you, only 6 here Jun 13 20:54:50 in full sun i bet it's ~50-60 Jun 13 20:55:06 lardman, Thank God for that >.<, dont think I could have done with 30 Jun 13 20:55:28 inz, Sunny Finland, eh? Jun 13 20:55:45 hm, another reboot, now softirqd is acting crasy Jun 13 20:55:47 crazy Jun 13 20:55:50 with 99% CPU use Jun 13 20:55:52 no way, last week we were near 20C, was great :) Jun 13 20:56:00 s/20C/30C :D Jun 13 20:56:22 we were here at 30C too Jun 13 20:56:41 i bet i'm stuck with wine Jun 13 20:57:28 qwerty, well, it is almost midnight here Jun 13 20:57:42 here it's 1h to midnight still Jun 13 20:57:48 5pm here Jun 13 20:57:51 inz, I'm not so far behind :/ Jun 13 20:58:00 hey Jun 13 20:58:07 arrrrrggggg garnet vm is a power drain :( Jun 13 20:58:12 ;P Jun 13 20:59:11 ok, seems that video works now Jun 13 20:59:17 qwerty, it was about 15 degrees at daytime, until it started to rain Jun 13 20:59:18 although still slow Jun 13 20:59:28 I'll renice mplayer to hell (should be very powerful with cfs) Jun 13 20:59:29 left it running, battery was fully charged as of 4 hours ago now the battery icon is red :( Jun 13 20:59:40 qwerty, can you tell when it started to rain: http://www.fmi.fi/img/observations/graphs/time-series_02763_T.png Jun 13 20:59:43 ds3: what would you expect from emulation? Jun 13 21:00:17 niced to -5 Jun 13 21:00:19 KotCzarny: it should be have better then this... afterall garnet vm is really a vm within a vm and it behaves fine on a real device Jun 13 21:00:29 is looking better :> Jun 13 21:00:41 btw, the movie is too large for omap to cope Jun 13 21:00:51 624x352 Jun 13 21:00:55 inz, round 15 y on axis i'd guess Jun 13 21:01:01 astorm: use op patch Jun 13 21:01:16 KotCzarny: gimme Jun 13 21:02:13 http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/patches/op_patch.diff Jun 13 21:02:28 it locks it at 400/133, right? Jun 13 21:02:31 no Jun 13 21:02:39 it adds sysfs interface Jun 13 21:02:51 to change dsp hi mode Jun 13 21:02:55 :) Jun 13 21:03:00 other behaviour stays the same Jun 13 21:03:14 hi mode is >133 Mhz, right? Jun 13 21:03:18 330/220 Jun 13 21:03:52 nice work KotCzarny , I've just got to reverse my changes on that file for permanent 400/133 :/ Jun 13 21:03:58 it's not my work Jun 13 21:04:27 well, I've never seen the patch for it before Jun 13 21:04:32 i just keep that patch safe on my server Jun 13 21:04:32 :) Jun 13 21:04:42 qwerty: lies, i was advertising it many times Jun 13 21:04:42 :) Jun 13 21:05:46 heh, I know, just never saw the patch in question :), all I found was fanoush's info on maemo-developers to change op mode manually in kernel src Jun 13 21:07:01 out of question then, what does /sys/power/op_active do then? Jun 13 21:07:56 KotCzarny: I don't like the patch Jun 13 21:08:04 why? Jun 13 21:08:04 it requires pushing magic numbers into sysfs Jun 13 21:08:15 at least it's passive Jun 13 21:08:15 like, OP_1 Jun 13 21:08:25 I'd rather use some boolean Jun 13 21:08:30 ie. doesn't do anything without user's action Jun 13 21:08:34 yes Jun 13 21:08:36 * lardman is worried that no-one has replied to the maemo.org community council email Jun 13 21:08:40 in sys you use echo 0 or echo 1 Jun 13 21:08:47 no-one else that is Jun 13 21:08:56 is there an alternative browser for n800 2008os? Jun 13 21:09:12 i saw a link for mozzila Jun 13 21:09:18 but it says incompatiable Jun 13 21:09:59 yeah, most likely an n810 package Jun 13 21:10:08 nah, wait Jun 13 21:10:11 should work Jun 13 21:10:55 im trying to use the link at browser.garage.maemo.org Jun 13 21:11:49 It tells me Unable to install microb-browser. Incompatible application package Jun 13 21:12:17 links(2), fennec, midori, old ass opera for os 2008 are the ones I remember f Jun 13 21:12:18 that one is for 700 Jun 13 21:12:35 I suggest fennec or midori Jun 13 21:13:07 anyway, maemo-browser is fine with me Jun 13 21:13:17 htx Jun 13 21:13:19 thanks Jun 13 21:13:32 if you set up debian, johnx put in epihany-webkit Jun 13 21:13:36 heh nice Jun 13 21:14:10 Hi again :) Jun 13 21:14:44 Could anyone use _any_ client to talk with the defaults maemo VoIP softphone? Jun 13 21:14:55 dererk: well, any SIP client, yes Jun 13 21:14:56 it implements sip Jun 13 21:15:01 jinks! Jun 13 21:15:18 im sort of torn on voip now that I have a uma/gan phone Jun 13 21:15:26 AStorm, a pay one? Jun 13 21:15:53 too, why not Jun 13 21:15:55 it's just I can't talk from my maemo to _any_ client :( Jun 13 21:16:06 probably NAT Jun 13 21:16:12 ie: gizmo project has a sip phone client for lots of platforms, I register my tablet against sipphone.com Jun 13 21:16:14 I had problems too Jun 13 21:16:22 nor gtalk nor jabber nor skype :/ Jun 13 21:16:23 and then you can just tell people to use gizmo at worst. Jun 13 21:16:30 dererk: well, skype worked here Jun 13 21:16:35 you have a diff. problem then Jun 13 21:16:39 [i am /not/ using the gizmo client on my tablet though] Jun 13 21:17:07 I think the problem is that I'm using 2008HE on a n770 Jun 13 21:17:24 ah, now, that's entirely different matter Jun 13 21:17:43 blah white screen again Jun 13 21:17:46 happens at random ;P Jun 13 21:18:03 AStorm, I didn't take that into account, as It seemed to be other problems Jun 13 21:18:14 I mean, all clients say something different Jun 13 21:18:18 HE is unsupported Jun 13 21:18:26 so, there *will* be problems Jun 13 21:18:26 AStorm, for skype? Jun 13 21:18:32 skype too Jun 13 21:18:41 by which ones then? Jun 13 21:18:52 you *will* have problems with all clients ;P Jun 13 21:19:05 n770 is just unsupported :( Jun 13 21:19:37 by this time, my desesperation would make me use any shitty client round there, just to talk to any client >_< Jun 13 21:19:48 * dererk sighs Jun 13 21:20:09 I suggest an upgrade to n800 Jun 13 21:20:14 it's fairly cheap nowadays Jun 13 21:20:47 AStorm, I live in a country that has a currency 4 times devalutated than a dolar Jun 13 21:21:00 that means Ihave to work 4 times harder to get one Jun 13 21:21:16 currently, that's humanly impossible for me Jun 13 21:21:39 SU-18_2008HACKER_4.2007.50-6_PR_F5_MR0_ARM Jun 13 21:21:44 that one, Jun 13 21:21:45 What bit of sw should I use to analyse the time spent in each fn of a C program? Jun 13 21:21:57 hm Jun 13 21:22:11 compile with -pg ? Jun 13 21:22:12 lardman: I suggest oprofile Jun 13 21:22:21 or compile with -pg and use gprof Jun 13 21:22:38 AStorm: ok, those sound familiar, I'll do some googling Jun 13 21:22:47 there's also sysprof Jun 13 21:23:24 is there anyway to compile from source on the n810? Jun 13 21:23:29 yes Jun 13 21:23:41 as usual Jun 13 21:23:52 after you install the toolchain (binutils, gcc, autotools) Jun 13 21:24:05 ah ok Jun 13 21:25:31 not sure how valuable profiling arm/x86 sbc code will be in terms of determining what to optimise on the DSP though Jun 13 21:26:15 it seems this v. of CFS is buggy ;P Jun 13 21:26:51 need newer one Jun 13 21:27:17 KotCzarny: what's the name of the sysfs file? Jun 13 21:27:32 hmm, /sys/power/opsomething Jun 13 21:27:45 nope Jun 13 21:28:47 op_dsp or op_active Jun 13 21:28:57 probably op_dsp Jun 13 21:29:05 values possible are 0 and 1 Jun 13 21:29:22 0 being 400/133 Jun 13 21:29:26 1 being 330/220 Jun 13 21:29:28 KotCzarny: doubt it would work with the dspgateway though Jun 13 21:29:37 lardman: ? Jun 13 21:29:44 it's independent of mbox Jun 13 21:30:01 and yes, it works with dspgateway Jun 13 21:30:02 :) Jun 13 21:30:12 because it doesn't have anything with it Jun 13 21:30:21 other than setting cpu/dsp speed :) Jun 13 21:30:23 I can't see op_dsp or oprofile_dsp on google Jun 13 21:30:35 lardman: i was talking to astorm :) Jun 13 21:30:38 hm... I don't seem to have it Jun 13 21:30:41 it's unrelated :) Jun 13 21:30:46 and I did patch it in Jun 13 21:30:47 lol, ok, back to sleep for me Jun 13 21:31:15 * lardman set *dsp* as a highlight, so though it was aimed at him :) Jun 13 21:31:19 :) Jun 13 21:31:26 dsp Jun 13 21:31:30 ! Jun 13 21:31:34 back to sleep Jun 13 21:31:47 KotCzarny: so, how do I set it? Jun 13 21:31:54 how do you set it anyway? ;P Jun 13 21:32:09 astorm: maybe interface for whole thing is missing in .26 ? Jun 13 21:32:16 it's in dvfs... Jun 13 21:32:22 no, I'm at 2.6.21-nokia Jun 13 21:32:29 but have dvfs disabled Jun 13 21:32:30 hmm Jun 13 21:32:31 ;P Jun 13 21:32:34 :P Jun 13 21:32:57 pebkac as always Jun 13 21:34:51 ith dvfs on it doesn't boot Jun 13 21:36:26 I'll change that patch to add the sysfs somewhere else than dvfs_init ;P Jun 13 21:37:11 but isn't the whole meaning of dvfs is to set up proper speeds? Jun 13 21:37:27 ie, you are running full speed without it? Jun 13 21:38:23 hmmmmm Jun 13 21:38:26 probably Jun 13 21:38:30 but why doesn't it work? Jun 13 21:38:41 why doesn't what work Jun 13 21:39:05 wow the N810 is quick, 160672 calls took 0s Jun 13 21:39:14 :) Jun 13 21:39:28 it's 400mhz after all Jun 13 21:39:37 :) Jun 13 21:39:45 I think it neglected to count the time Jun 13 21:40:04 KotCzarny: isn't it lowest speed? ;P Jun 13 21:40:26 ? Jun 13 21:40:39 anyway that's done the job of telling me what to optimise, thanks AStorm Jun 13 21:47:37 KotCzarny: what are the bogomips for 330/200? Jun 13 21:47:41 and for 400/133? Jun 13 21:47:46 KotCzarny: IIRC, that is the job of something called cpuidle Jun 13 21:48:36 ds3: cpuidle is system side, hardware driver has to know how to set them Jun 13 21:48:36 cpufreq you mean Jun 13 21:49:09 no, cpuidle - it figures out what is the deepest sleep state the proc can be in given a set of constraints Jun 13 21:49:14 ... Jun 13 21:49:16 yeah Jun 13 21:49:23 and it can set itself to death Jun 13 21:49:29 and IIRC, voltage/speed is also tweaked based on the constraints Jun 13 21:49:40 if the kernel doesn't know how to set speed/voltage Jun 13 21:50:35 funny why DVFS doesn't work Jun 13 21:50:43 it just crashes the boot Jun 13 21:52:03 actually, dvfs sets CPU to ondemand Jun 13 21:52:16 loads the op list Jun 13 21:52:21 and adds that sysfs Jun 13 21:53:45 wth dvfs wouldn't work... it's very much needed ;( Jun 13 21:53:55 otherwise power saving goes byebye Jun 13 21:54:58 :) Jun 13 22:00:38 well, the cause is not DMA drain... Jun 13 22:03:42 heh.. 2.6fps under wine :/ Jun 13 22:06:17 it dies before fbcon is inited Jun 13 22:06:18 hmm Jun 13 22:10:36 wtf? be cool with drm?? is nokia NUTS?! Jun 13 22:10:44 Jun 13 22:11:08 digital restrictions management Jun 13 22:11:10 :) Jun 13 22:11:59 does nokia's software chief really not get that information scarcity is an anachronism?! Jun 13 22:12:12 thats wild Jun 13 22:12:51 this really isn't the place for this discussion Jun 13 22:12:53 sorry Jun 13 22:12:57 * Mousey shuts up Jun 13 22:13:00 why not? Jun 13 22:14:16 i'd imagine it's more fun to talk about maemo and hacking NITs than politics and retarded executives Jun 13 22:15:21 who's being cool w/ drm? Jun 13 22:15:48 Like, DRM and I hang out on the weekends, but he's always so busy suing people, I just feel like he's beyond me know Jun 13 22:15:59 I wanna know how to be cool with DRM again Jun 13 22:16:15 just swallow it Jun 13 22:16:29 otherwise it would be pushed ther forcibly Jun 13 22:16:36 http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/13/123206 Jun 13 22:17:25 they'd have to force it on me, and that's the fastest way to lose my contribution Jun 13 22:17:40 peace love and happiness dude, let's all just be cool Jun 13 22:17:42 not that i'm some huge contributor Jun 13 22:18:50 I, on the other hand, feel the need to contribue my stupid opinions when given any chance Jun 13 22:19:29 damn Jun 13 22:19:36 why doesn't that fscking dvfs work! Jun 13 22:19:45 it wasn't changed in 2.6.26-omap Jun 13 22:20:28 nah, wrong Jun 13 22:20:29 my bad Jun 13 22:20:43 checked wrong branch Jun 13 22:20:51 lol Jun 13 22:21:24 dvfs is very recent in linux-omap it seems Jun 13 22:22:13 * Dekaritae is in love with Opera 9.5's "scroll is pan" feature Jun 13 22:22:26 scroll is pan? Jun 13 22:22:37 You could have set that ages ago. Jun 13 22:22:44 Basically, it's MicroB-style drag scrolling in a desktop browser Jun 13 22:22:48 I wasn't using the betas Jun 13 22:22:50 ah Jun 13 22:23:19 eh Jun 13 22:23:25 oh Jun 13 22:23:27 not fun if you're using a mouse Jun 13 22:26:53 it's for those mac os x lovers with one-button mouse Jun 13 22:27:49 noone using mac os x has a one-button mouse anymore Jun 13 22:27:58 unless they're stuck like fifteen years ago Jun 13 22:28:00 'no one' Jun 13 22:28:24 very few people Jun 13 22:28:25 we have new mac with these horrible old mice Jun 13 22:28:29 *macs Jun 13 22:31:06 wtf doesn't DVFS work... Jun 13 22:31:29 I'll run a clean build Jun 13 22:32:02 :> Jun 13 22:33:34 Macs come with horrible keyboards and horrible mice Jun 13 22:33:49 use better ones :P Jun 13 22:34:13 new bt keyboards are quite nice Jun 13 22:34:23 I'd want a foldable one like that ;P Jun 13 22:34:55 the new keyboards are very nice, I agree Jun 13 22:44:03 ssvb: evening Jun 13 22:44:33 lardman: it's more like a late night here :) Jun 13 22:45:47 yeah same here, quarter to midnighyt Jun 13 22:45:55 later for you though I imagine Jun 13 22:51:55 ok, esd output bites ;P Jun 13 22:51:59 <|penguinbait|> anyone want to help me write, what I would assume to be a very simple C prog? I can't get past "Hello World" Jun 13 22:52:17 <|penguinbait|> I need a C prog that calls a script Jun 13 22:53:02 system, fork Jun 13 22:54:21 or popen Jun 13 22:54:23 or execve Jun 13 22:54:34 <|penguinbait|> I am not a programmer Jun 13 22:54:46 <|penguinbait|> I am a script jockey :) Jun 13 22:55:22 <|penguinbait|> maemo mapper calls flite, but when I replace flite with a script it wont call it Jun 13 22:55:37 <|penguinbait|> gnuite said it has to be a c prog that gets called Jun 13 22:55:51 yeah, just use system Jun 13 23:08:49 lardman, you still awake Jun 13 23:26:43 |penguinbait| Jun 13 23:26:46 i wanna be on you Jun 13 23:32:45 lardman: have you tried to do anything about DSP memory access performance? Jun 13 23:43:19 <|penguinbait|> excuse me? Jun 13 23:43:27 That's what SHE said! Jun 13 23:44:42 <|penguinbait|> just before the slap no doubt Jun 13 23:44:51 yeah, probably so. Jun 13 23:45:49 that's what SHE said! Jun 14 00:19:31 <|penguinbait|> AStorm, you still here? Jun 14 00:44:46 It's in the mail :D Jun 14 00:46:31 whosee mail?? Jun 14 00:46:32 :P Jun 14 00:46:35 wwhose Jun 14 00:46:37 whoose Jun 14 00:46:41 hmm, funny Jun 14 00:48:03 better be mine early next week Jun 14 00:49:21 it'll be interesting with verizon buying alltel (my provider) to see if my $25 unlimited data plan goes up Jun 14 00:51:51 lcuk: yeah Jun 14 00:52:24 heh - had enough wine? (i know i have) Jun 14 00:52:40 * lcuk raises a glass Jun 14 00:53:15 how are people who don't have a screen protect's N800 faring? Jun 14 00:53:28 protector Jun 14 00:53:36 mine got scuffed up pretty good Jun 14 00:53:40 my 810 is scratched to buggery and its even got a little horrible crack looking scratch Jun 14 00:54:01 is there something to fix it or at least clean off the finger prints? Jun 14 00:54:02 lcuk: oh yes, Holly's back from a wine tasting session, so am sitting watching music channel and chilling out Jun 14 00:54:08 but the more i have it in my pocket the more i dont care :) Jun 14 00:54:09 <|penguinbait|> can anyone help with a C question? : system("/usr/bin/flite.sh") : I can call the script fine, but I want to pass the command line arg #2 to the flite script. anyone ? Jun 14 00:54:13 s/am/are Jun 14 00:54:44 |penguinbait|: you may be able to add it inside the system() call Jun 14 00:55:04 simply stick it in the string that contains the binary name Jun 14 00:55:14 system( "foo arg1 arg2 ....." ); Jun 14 00:55:25 system doesn't break it out as that gets passed to sh for expansion Jun 14 00:55:25 pb: wait a moment Jun 14 00:55:42 char buff[255]; sprintf(buff,"/usr/bin/flite.sh %s",argv[2]); system(buff); or a variant thereof Jun 14 00:55:46 <|penguinbait|> can anyone help wlike so? system("/usr/bin/flite.sh arg2") Jun 14 00:55:46 now if you use fork/exec, you will have to do it as separent arguments Jun 14 00:55:55 |penguinbait|, yep Jun 14 00:56:09 <|penguinbait|> thanks :) Jun 14 00:56:24 so no recommended screen cleaners? Jun 14 00:57:24 <|penguinbait|> it is literally passing arg2 Jun 14 00:57:28 char buff[255]; snprintf(buff,255,"/usr/bin/flite.sh %s",argv[2]); system(buff); pb, actually this would be better Jun 14 00:57:29 execvp(param_list2[0],param_list2 Jun 14 00:57:35 ); Jun 14 00:57:52 sorry, misread your question Jun 14 00:58:45 what lcuk said Jun 14 00:58:47 ds3, a good glasses cleaning cloth , or a duster or something light Jun 14 00:58:49 where param_list2 is an array of command Jun 14 00:58:57 ie command, param1, param2 etc Jun 14 00:59:27 lcuk: any moistening? i.e. isopropyl/distill water/windex/etc? Jun 14 00:59:40 KotCzarny: hope you fork before doing that Jun 14 00:59:49 unless you plan to give up control Jun 14 00:59:57 <|penguinbait|> lcuk ? error: `argv' undeclared (first use this function) Jun 14 01:00:00 ive never touched mine properly, i treat the screen like my glasses though - ill blow warm air on it and rub Jun 14 01:00:18 int main(int argc, char *argv[]); Jun 14 01:00:22 |penguinbait|, you need to do that in main Jun 14 01:00:27 pb: first time with c? :) Jun 14 01:00:28 <|penguinbait|> thanks Jun 14 01:00:31 with the declarations Jun 14 01:00:32 <|penguinbait|> yes Jun 14 01:01:07 check argc has enough parameters before calling out though Jun 14 01:01:23 you do not want to access argv[2] unless it has been allocated by the system for you Jun 14 01:01:31 lcuk, but then you are depriving him of being to ask what is a Segfault ;) Jun 14 01:01:42 heh Jun 14 01:01:55 <|penguinbait|> lost, head spinning Jun 14 01:02:00 <|penguinbait|> might be the pints Jun 14 01:02:05 whats this for pb Jun 14 01:02:44 <|penguinbait|> I am trying to get maemo mapper to use festival, with spanish, and female and british voices Jun 14 01:03:00 <|penguinbait|> It wont call my script directly Jun 14 01:03:29 so you need a wrapper exe to fire offyour script with a known parameter Jun 14 01:03:32 <|penguinbait|> I need a bin called flite to call my script and pass arg2 Jun 14 01:03:48 DOH...bad fonts...thought there was a mibviewer_gui thread on ITT but it turned out to be mlbviewer_gui Jun 14 01:04:08 |penguinbait|, a shell script might be easier Jun 14 01:04:09 <|penguinbait|> flite is called like this "/usr/bin/flite -t "text to be read" from maemo mapper Jun 14 01:04:34 <|penguinbait|> it cannot be a script Jun 14 01:04:37 something like "#!/bin/sh; exec /usr/bin/flite newarguments $* Jun 14 01:04:40 <|penguinbait|> I have a script now Jun 14 01:04:42 why not? Jun 14 01:04:48 night all Jun 14 01:05:05 <|penguinbait|> gnuite says it has to be binary Jun 14 01:05:15 pb, you will have probably to quote the param Jun 14 01:05:21 <|penguinbait|> he said he used execl ?? Jun 14 01:05:33 because system() calls the bash and execs it as it is Jun 14 01:05:33 exec should work with scripts Jun 14 01:05:46 back to catching up on ITT Jun 14 01:06:41 ds3: exec doesn't launch a shell by default Jun 14 01:06:45 <|penguinbait|> Kot ? Jun 14 01:06:49 ? Jun 14 01:06:50 you need to use /bin/sh or something Jun 14 01:06:54 no Jun 14 01:07:02 system calls bash anyway Jun 14 01:07:24 system, yes Jun 14 01:07:26 exec, no Jun 14 01:07:39 correct Jun 14 01:07:42 ofc. the script would need +x Jun 14 01:07:55 and partition w/o noexec Jun 14 01:08:55 unless he will call system("/bin/sh -c his_script \"params\""); Jun 14 01:08:59 quick gcc question, without a makefile or anything, whats the syntax to do instant single .c to binary? Jun 14 01:09:11 KotCzarny: that would work anyway Jun 14 01:09:12 gcc pli.c -o pli Jun 14 01:09:19 ta Jun 14 01:09:30 without -o pli you get a.out Jun 14 01:09:31 but it's wasteful Jun 14 01:09:43 <|penguinbait|> thanks guys, its working great Jun 14 01:09:58 execve("sh","-c","the_script", "params"); Jun 14 01:10:02 use this Jun 14 01:13:18 wait, my mistake Jun 14 01:13:24 not execve, but execle Jun 14 01:13:24 tapenguin http://pastebin.ca/1047317 Jun 14 01:13:28 damn! Jun 14 01:13:44 * lcuk undoes it Jun 14 01:14:12 ENOENT? ;P Jun 14 01:14:20 well, then create it Jun 14 01:15:14 write the shell script Jun 14 01:15:28 but I still suggest execle instead of system Jun 14 01:15:46 less security problems that way (like shell escapes and expansions) Jun 14 01:16:29 penguin, is the second parameter an mp3 title Jun 14 01:16:42 <|penguinbait|> "text to be read" Jun 14 01:17:01 <|penguinbait|> it is like "head south on I-94" Jun 14 01:17:07 <|penguinbait|> I need the " Jun 14 01:17:17 |penguinbait|: well, execle("sh","-c","/usr/bin/foo.sh",argv[1]); Jun 14 01:17:23 look at the pastebin i have just posted Jun 14 01:17:24 or, wait, no Jun 14 01:17:40 its got code, compiling and examples :) Jun 14 01:17:44 <|penguinbait|> I am trying now Jun 14 01:17:56 I know now why it isn't working with /usr/bin/flite being a shell script Jun 14 01:18:00 maemo-mapper uses execve Jun 14 01:18:01 ;P Jun 14 01:18:07 or execle Jun 14 01:19:20 * AStorm goes to sleep... finally Jun 14 01:19:23 night Jun 14 01:19:50 night storm Jun 14 01:20:52 what you don't like my "";rm -rf /&" name? ;) Jun 14 01:21:17 but you are the mapper calling Jun 14 01:22:47 if the operator can run arbitary file system commands anyway, why not just run the rm -rf manually without needing to use a none elevated wrapper? Jun 14 01:25:22 * lcuk gets back to liqgame.c Jun 14 01:25:49 game? Jun 14 01:25:52 o.O Jun 14 01:32:15 o.O indeed. i need to learn about input methods and try a few things Jun 14 01:32:24 :) Jun 14 01:39:01 i need an 'input method' Jun 14 01:39:34 beer.open(); Jun 14 01:40:00 that's an opener method Jun 14 01:40:01 SIGPIPE Jun 14 01:40:17 SIGCIG Jun 14 01:40:44 SIGGULP Jun 14 01:44:06 SIGFOOD Jun 14 02:45:03 hi, I've got a N800 recently and I'm having problems installing maemo-recorder Jun 14 02:45:34 the installer is saying that it was impossible to install Jun 14 02:46:08 Is there a workaround to this or another recording app? Jun 14 02:50:24 Check the details in the install screen Jun 14 02:50:51 Dekaritae, it doesn't say anything about that Jun 14 02:52:54 It usually lists package conflicts Jun 14 02:53:03 it just says that it will take a given amount of memory Jun 14 02:53:14 After that step Jun 14 02:54:27 there's only three tabs: a brief, a description and an "installing" tab Jun 14 02:55:16 Under description Jun 14 02:55:24 the last one is the one that usually displays dependencies and sutff, but for maemo-recorder it's just saying that it will take 254Kb of memory Jun 14 02:55:56 under description there's only: Maemo Recorder - A simple graphical utility for recording audio from microphone. Jun 14 02:56:56 Ok, hmm. When I try to install mogg, it shows a Problems tab with package confllicts Jun 14 02:57:21 I guess there's no (known) conflicts Jun 14 02:57:31 What's the status under Summary Jun 14 02:58:06 it says that it's installable Jun 14 02:58:30 the installer downloads the file but fails in the middle of the installation **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 14 02:59:56 2008