**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 23 02:59:56 2008 Jun 23 03:00:07 we kept contact with people all over the country just fine before social networking, back when people had their own web pages Jun 23 03:00:14 acydlord: ok, well, useful if those people check their facebook more than their email :) Jun 23 03:00:21 ya know, when the people using the internet actually knew how to use the internet Jun 23 03:01:01 yeah yeah, kids these days :) Jun 23 03:04:48 Somebody remind me the irc url format, I don't feel like googling. :p Jun 23 03:05:35 lol Jun 23 03:05:41 irc:/server/channel Jun 23 03:06:30 Right, thanks. Jun 23 03:06:35 welcome Jun 23 03:06:49 * GAN800 is trying to kick-start the agenda for the next maemo-meeting. Jun 23 03:07:24 fun times Jun 23 03:09:07 Ugh, cable's out back home again . . . no Adult Swim for me. :( Jun 23 03:09:23 my cables ben out for about a month and a half Jun 23 03:09:27 using my N800 like my computer just makes me giddy. Jun 23 03:09:44 cable company decided to charge me for a fee that was waived about 7 years ago Jun 23 03:09:59 You boycotting the bill? :P Jun 23 03:10:05 Oh Jun 23 03:10:08 ouch Jun 23 03:10:10 and now they are charging me $250 a pop for my digital recievers even though my account is still active Jun 23 03:10:19 Good gos Jun 23 03:10:40 yeah, the charges were waived because they let someone move my phone service i had through them and the person racked up a large long dist bill Jun 23 03:10:56 Build yourself a catapult, fill the cable boxes with gas and lob them at their hq. :p Jun 23 03:11:04 lol Jun 23 03:11:24 i should put some thermite in them and wire it to the transformers so when they plug them in they'll melt Jun 23 03:11:32 Ha Jun 23 03:11:58 What company? Jun 23 03:13:37 cox communications Jun 23 03:14:07 and unfortunately they have quite the monopoly on appartment complex networking out here Jun 23 03:15:01 as soon as wimax is out here, if it isnt horribly cripled like sprint's evdo now is i'll probably just use it Jun 23 03:15:29 sprint's evdo is horribly crippled? Jun 23 03:15:46 johnx: hi hi Jun 23 03:15:50 hi Jun 23 03:15:57 they just slapped us with a 5gb a month cap Jun 23 03:16:18 and for people actually using their aircard and DUN plans thats pretty crummy Jun 23 03:16:35 only for the aircard and PAM plans, right? Jun 23 03:16:40 yeah Jun 23 03:16:57 i think they should have applied it to all the stupid phone as everything but a phone things Jun 23 03:17:02 * summatusmentis is probably going sprint SERO w/ pdanet Jun 23 03:17:22 Woo, johnx. Jun 23 03:17:33 hi GAN800 :D Jun 23 03:17:36 i havent checked yet to see if it applies to the sero accounts Jun 23 03:17:49 according to forums, it shouldn't apply to power vision Jun 23 03:17:53 but last i heard they were just switching all the sero account to the "unlimited everything" plan Jun 23 03:18:00 really? Jun 23 03:18:03 yeah Jun 23 03:18:19 where'd you hear that? Jun 23 03:18:35 from the girl at the sprint store over here Jun 23 03:19:03 oh... so I should jump then... "unlimited everything" plan == unlimited minutes? Jun 23 03:20:13 I should decide either tomorrow or the next day, leaving town Jun 23 03:26:22 so, GAN800, did I miss anything important the last couple days? Jun 23 03:27:24 ACTION  Jun 23 03:27:31 :) Jun 23 03:27:49 :P Jun 23 03:29:22 yeah, unlimited minutes and everything included in the power vision plan Jun 23 03:29:56 acydlord: awesome... that'd be cool Jun 23 03:30:15 i may switch to that since i can get an app for my centro that will use the power vision data for a dun connection Jun 23 03:30:28 that's what I think I'm gona do Jun 23 03:30:29 so i wouldnt have to worry about the PaM limits Jun 23 03:30:54 gonna* Jun 23 03:30:55 anyone here use canola2 and know how to create playlists for it? Jun 23 03:31:09 audio or video? Jun 23 03:31:43 cause canola just pulls my m3u lists from my music directory Jun 23 03:33:53 audio Jun 23 03:34:11 it does? so basically have a playlist named m3u w/lists of what's in there & it should work? Jun 23 03:34:36 yeah, should Jun 23 03:35:13 and in the file is just one line for fullpath/filename right? Jun 23 03:36:15 yup Jun 23 03:36:46 ok i'll give it a try Jun 23 03:36:47 thanks Jun 23 03:38:09 welcome Jun 23 03:57:11 yawn Jun 23 03:58:35 We no longer accept the term thermobaric [for the AGM-114N] as there is no internationally agreed definition, said an MoD spokesman. We call it an enhanced blast weapon. Jun 23 03:58:43 (The redefinition has allowed British forces to use the weapons legally) Jun 23 03:59:31 This is not really the place for politics. Jun 23 03:59:48 derf: It's not politics, it's dailyrotten.com =) Jun 23 04:39:33 https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo-meeting Jun 23 04:45:52 GA: When is the next one? Jun 23 04:46:32 Oh, there is a timeframe vaguely mentioned Jun 23 04:47:11 Well, we don't have an agenda and we haven't talked to Quim. Jun 23 04:47:31 It's entirely dependent on getting an agenda together then talking to Quim. Jun 23 04:53:29 aha Jun 23 04:57:34 RST38h, if you've got some topic and agenda ideas, please add them. :D Jun 23 05:01:59 GA: I am afraid there isn't much I would like to ask Quim about Jun 23 05:02:40 Most of my questions have been answered during the last meeting and in the following discussion / bugzilla comments / etc. Jun 23 05:04:33 GA: Btw, the meanwhile guy has got into a comic: http://www.marriedtothesea.com/051508/survival-of-the-spitefullest.gif Jun 23 05:05:00 Ahaha Jun 23 06:26:51 hi everyone... is maemo.org having any connectivity problems right now? Jun 23 06:27:19 WORKSFORME Jun 23 06:27:26 It's not really known for its reliability, though. Jun 23 06:28:03 hmm... it could be something with my cellular provider. i don't have access to real internet right now Jun 23 06:28:20 but i've been having trouble installing anything out of maemo extras Jun 23 06:29:09 i'm getting 2-3% packet loss and several second latencies- could that cause problems with application manager you think? Jun 23 06:29:24 Seems like a possibility. ;) Jun 23 06:29:34 Extras is working fine here. Jun 23 06:29:52 Application Manager isn't known for it's reliablity in the first place and adding a dodgy connection to the mix isn't going to help. Jun 23 06:30:08 Meh, this isn't one of its reliability issues. Jun 23 06:31:02 True Jun 23 06:32:11 ok, i'm going to see if i can share internet from my laptop to my n810 so i can debug while i'm online here Jun 23 06:34:16 heh Jun 23 06:34:32 ok, now, who has built an n810 kernel with working dvfs? Jun 23 06:34:46 that, and possibly w/o some devious tsc2005 bug Jun 23 06:58:08 anyone has a opinion on google web toolkit-based web applications on the n800 browser (os2008)? Jun 23 06:59:43 does it not try dhcp when connecting to an ad-hoc network? Jun 23 06:59:50 i would set up the connection manually, but i can't become root :) Jun 23 07:02:26 ah, i just found advanced connection settings Jun 23 07:15:27 ok, now i'm just curious why this part isn't working... anyone ever gotten an ad-hoc network working? Jun 23 07:15:39 Yes, lots of peopel. Jun 23 07:15:43 s/peopel/people/ Jun 23 07:15:43 GeneralAntilles meant: Yes, lots of people. Jun 23 07:15:55 i set the ip, router and dns manually, it says it's connected to the network i created... Jun 23 07:16:07 hi Jun 23 07:16:10 but afterwards i don't even see the dns settings in /etc/resolv.conf Jun 23 07:16:34 Hey, keesj. Jun 23 07:16:52 i can't ping the ip from my laptop Jun 23 07:17:27 and when i tried to use a dhcp server on the laptop, i didn't see any dhcp requests while connecting Jun 23 07:17:49 argh, iwconfig would help Jun 23 07:25:27 oh weird... the ad-hoc network i set on the laptop shows up in the connection list, but as a WEP network?? Jun 23 07:28:15 alright, none of this makes any sense so i'm going to just blame it on my crap laptop Jun 23 07:28:18 be back shortly Jun 23 07:55:34 morning Jun 23 07:56:59 does someone with Diablo is able to use OMWeather? Jun 23 08:15:18 johnx: I misses j00 >_> Jun 23 08:15:20 lol Jun 23 08:25:27 Yay, nokia bought plazes.com Jun 23 08:25:41 just had to pop in here to say that cause it made me happy when i heard. Jun 23 08:36:27 why did that make you happy? Jun 23 08:39:42 hi Jun 23 08:40:02 figured out my issue... I didn't realize that application manager stores files to the internal memory card Jun 23 08:40:10 my vfat filesystem on there was corrupted Jun 23 08:40:33 did application manager's log window tell you that? :) Jun 23 08:40:46 yeah :) Jun 23 08:41:04 i even knew about the corruption, which made me feel extra stupid Jun 23 08:41:17 but previously it was limited to files in one directory Jun 23 08:41:30 i just had to reformat using the usb cable Jun 23 08:42:10 a tricky one though, cause even flashing the device doesn't fix it Jun 23 08:42:22 um Jun 23 08:42:31 last i checked file manager was supposed to let you reformat mmcs Jun 23 08:42:34 at least in diablo Jun 23 08:42:42 what are you running? Jun 23 08:43:09 chinook i think? what's diablo? Jun 23 08:43:41 oh yeah, you can do that from file manager Jun 23 08:50:03 oops, my cell phone booted me Jun 23 08:53:27 timeless: is testserver in diablo initfs required to boot? Jun 23 09:00:21 ok - got answer from other source. it can Jun 23 09:00:39 hrw, can be removed? Jun 23 09:01:29 johnx: can Jun 23 09:01:41 600K freed Jun 23 09:01:50 nice Jun 23 09:02:06 hi, do we have openGL support for maemo . .. i am using qt4 but cann't find support for openGL i.e libqt4-opengl Jun 23 09:02:17 ranit, nope Jun 23 09:02:20 ranit: only mesa (software) Jun 23 09:02:27 oh no Jun 23 09:02:34 you could compile mesa I guess...but it would be real slo Jun 23 09:02:37 w Jun 23 09:02:42 johnx: but even with initfs stripped and diablo kernel it does not boot. Jun 23 09:03:25 hrw, qwerty12 hacked up a diablo initfs to make it boot Jun 23 09:03:48 will have to wait for him Jun 23 09:03:53 IIRC, he didn't see an advantage except being able to use some of the Nokia testing tools Jun 23 09:04:18 johnx: with chinook kernel/initfs and diablo rootfs I do not get charging Jun 23 09:04:28 ah, I do Jun 23 09:04:52 for charging it doesn't seem to matter what rootfs you use Jun 23 09:05:04 it stills charges when I use debian as a rootfs... Jun 23 09:07:30 wondering if there are any docs around on how to go about testing diablo? Jun 23 09:08:05 kylec, anyone outside Nokia who has "diablo" doesn't have it through official channels Jun 23 09:08:30 oh, i see Jun 23 09:09:14 i just saw the "4.1" directory in one of the repos and figured Jun 23 09:09:32 looking forward to it! Jun 23 09:09:41 I think we all are :) Jun 23 09:32:42 good morning Jun 23 09:33:27 mornin' :) Jun 23 09:41:37 night Jun 23 09:42:20 'night rm_you :D Jun 23 09:45:03 ranit: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicFZ50/page17.asp Jun 23 09:45:11 oops, damn copy & paste Jun 23 09:45:20 http://unrealvoodoo.org/hiteck/blog/graphics/opengl-es-for-maemo/ Jun 23 09:47:58 wow...that rebel xt sure holds up well at ISO 1600 O_o Jun 23 09:48:38 great lardman, thanx Jun 23 09:49:18 ~lart FF for either not copying, or not pasting Jun 23 09:49:18 * infobot plops FF into a giant vat of herring for either not copying, or not pasting Jun 23 09:49:53 actually that may be a WinXP fault Jun 23 09:50:02 ~lart WinXP for exsiting Jun 23 09:50:02 * infobot calls WinXP on the phone ... the lights are on but nobody's home for exsiting Jun 23 09:50:21 ah...here I was about to blame interactions between the X11 cut buffer and application clipboard :P Jun 23 09:50:57 I was wondering about a bridge camera rather than an SLR, hence the random link inserted :) Jun 23 09:51:47 johnx: I must admit I'm not fond of Gnome's requirement for something to remain highlighted to be able to copy it (e.g. in gedit) Jun 23 09:51:54 but perhaps there's some setting I can change Jun 23 09:52:06 lardman, use ctrl+c, ctrl+v instead Jun 23 09:52:10 that should solve that Jun 23 09:52:28 I quite like the highlight copying though! :) Jun 23 09:52:33 heh Jun 23 09:52:36 choose one :P Jun 23 09:54:14 I shouldn't really have to though, should I? Jun 23 09:55:02 well, with ctrl+c/v you can un-hilight the text, but the X11 cut buffer is always the same as the hilighted text Jun 23 09:55:43 but the cut buffer is cleared if I unhighlight the text Jun 23 09:55:49 that's what I mean Jun 23 09:55:58 it's *supposed* to do that, AFAIK Jun 23 09:56:08 no hilighted text = no cut buffer Jun 23 09:56:12 I seem to remember it would keep that previously highlighted text until I highlighted something else Jun 23 09:56:42 aaah...so you mean something changed? Jun 23 09:56:49 that is different then Jun 23 09:57:03 or perhaps the problem with gedit is that it doesn't insert at the mouse pointer pos'n but rather at the cursor pos'n (i.e. it inserts over the highlighted text) Jun 23 09:57:20 O_o Jun 23 09:57:30 johnx: I think so, but can't really remember as it just used to work Jun 23 09:57:55 but certainly the not-inserting-at-mouse-pointer-pos'n problem happens in gedit for me Jun 23 09:58:18 hmm...I really have no idea what's up Jun 23 10:03:06 no worries, I was just getting it off my chest :) Jun 23 10:16:15 hello Jun 23 10:16:20 hi Jun 23 10:16:50 is ok to go to http://www.gronmayer.com/it/, check all the repository and add all to n800 ? Jun 23 10:16:57 or is the bad way ? ;) Jun 23 10:17:04 probably not the best way Jun 23 10:17:17 better to add repositories as you need them Jun 23 10:17:26 hum Jun 23 10:17:39 also, make sure they're for the right version of your OS Jun 23 10:17:59 yes OS2008 Jun 23 10:18:28 yeah, but some of the repos in the OS2008/chinook list are for OS2007/bora Jun 23 10:18:35 thus, why it's not a good idea to add them Jun 23 10:18:54 ha ok Jun 23 10:24:18 Temp fix for broken Chinook Jun 23 10:24:18 must be added ? Jun 23 10:24:36 'lo johnx Jun 23 10:24:37 don't add Jun 23 10:24:40 Stskeeps, hi Jun 23 10:24:47 sorry I've been gone the last couple days O_o Jun 23 10:25:00 johnx: hehe, it's fine, been reading for exam and playing with debian :) Jun 23 10:25:09 good deal Jun 23 10:25:36 I've been lying in bed with a fever, then dragging myself to work and dropping right into bed when I got back Jun 23 10:25:40 better now though :) Jun 23 10:26:45 is there a plan to switch to autoconf 2.60+ for maemo? Jun 23 10:41:01 on my n810 with diablo battery applet does not display even - it only react at press - anyone got it? Jun 23 10:43:26 hrw: i think its a known bug on n810 Jun 23 10:43:32 mine applet doesnt work either Jun 23 10:44:05 macoute: and no charging at all too? Jun 23 10:44:12 however, it gets the battery meter right after reboots Jun 23 10:44:23 btw - someone who admin itt is here? Jun 23 10:44:26 hrw: it does charge, but it seems it doesnt Jun 23 10:44:44 so the meter doesnt animate while charging Jun 23 10:45:29 macoute: here applet render as empty space Jun 23 10:46:28 hrw: oh? on my side it shows the situation of battery when booted, so if i fully charge and then boot my nit, its going to show fuilly charged until the battery dies Jun 23 10:47:11 here all it say (on charger or not) is 'battery low' Jun 23 10:47:19 when I press empty space Jun 23 10:47:28 would have to report it a bit later Jun 23 10:49:38 hrw: is there /proc/acpi/bat0/info or something like it available? Jun 23 10:49:47 so you could check the state of the battery Jun 23 10:49:56 macoute, nope Jun 23 10:50:08 johnx: then how to check the battery? Jun 23 10:50:25 directly from the retu adc Jun 23 10:50:25 macoute: its not x86 to have acpi Jun 23 10:50:35 macoute, look up kcbatt Jun 23 10:50:45 hrw: I had battery issues when I flashed the diablo kernel Jun 23 10:50:57 hrw: Are you sure the Chinook kernel has flashed ok? Jun 23 10:51:17 hrw: yah, but something like it Jun 23 10:52:43 Flashing kernel... done. Jun 23 10:53:59 lardman: Linux (none) 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Fri Dec 7 11:17:13 EET 2007 armv6l unknown Jun 23 10:55:05 fair enough **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 23 11:09:06 2008 Jun 23 11:29:58 hm.. another missing library ;( Jun 23 11:30:06 ~curse osso-ic-dev Jun 23 11:30:07 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, osso-ic-dev ! Jun 23 11:32:05 what does it do? Jun 23 11:33:14 lack source Jun 23 11:33:34 libconic require osso-ic-dev but repo lack it.. Jun 23 11:33:38 last version is from bora Jun 23 11:33:55 probably just an oversight then Jun 23 11:35:27 ~shoot that one who configured sorting on repository.maemo.org too Jun 23 11:35:28 * infobot shoots that one who configured sorting on repository.maemo.org too in the ear with a cork gun! Jun 23 11:36:02 heh...who doesn't like sort-by-size? Jun 23 11:36:15 especially in dir with only dirs? Jun 23 11:36:16 seriously though, it's going to be fixed... Jun 23 11:37:13 johnx: I know Jun 23 11:38:26 so, what is used by default nowadays? scratchbox1 or 2? Jun 23 11:38:43 OE? Poky? Jun 23 11:38:57 by default, scratchbox1 Jun 23 11:39:07 but you're free to choose, of course Jun 23 11:39:14 I intend to use esbox plugin for eclipse Jun 23 11:40:13 * lcuk wonders if the world exploded or was it just freenode servers entering orbit? Jun 23 11:41:22 I wish I could just apt-get it Jun 23 11:41:26 * hrw wants mirrors for repository.maemo.org.... Jun 23 11:42:30 Xamusk, then why don't you ? Jun 23 11:42:56 crashanddie, I'm still looking for scratchbox1 repos... ubuntu only has scratchbox2 Jun 23 11:43:12 I guess in some minutes I'll just use scratchbox2 anyway Jun 23 11:43:14 Xamusk, or just get an eclipse package, and update from there ? Jun 23 11:43:53 crashanddie, how? I already do have eclipse installed (I already use pydev), but not esbox Jun 23 11:44:20 Xamusk, get the repo where esbox is hosted, add it, and you should be able to install it from there Jun 23 11:44:43 crashanddie, you mean for eclipse or for apt? Jun 23 11:44:51 Xamusk, eclipse Jun 23 11:48:58 Xamusk: something wrong with the scratchbox.org repos? Jun 23 11:49:42 jjo, for apt or eclipse? I'm still installing the eclipse plugin Jun 23 11:49:47 for esbox Jun 23 11:50:01 oh sorry Jun 23 11:51:24 * Jaffa thinks http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_jussi_-007-.png is his new favourite Jun 23 11:52:06 jaffa, simple and effective :) hows your 1st day back going Jun 23 11:52:18 mämo Jun 23 11:52:56 I really dislike all the ae that are attached. As that is not the url at all :) Jun 23 11:54:26 x-fade what about the maem oo rg one (the one with glasses) ;) Jun 23 11:56:47 lcuk: quieter than I was expecting, it seems I'm not indispensable :) Jun 23 11:56:58 Jaffa: blah, weak Jun 23 11:57:02 and needs AA Jun 23 11:58:00 I have to admit that I did not thought that in 2008 I will have to edit code to make it build with gcc4 Jun 23 11:58:33 AStorm: it's a nice evolution of the moebius strip concept. Jun 23 11:58:57 Jaffa: hehe, as if anyone links maemo with moebius or anything Jun 23 11:59:13 is there any way to make an esbox project that allows me to use both python and C++ debuggers? **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 23 12:01:13 2008 Jun 23 12:01:21 in the new projects dialog it seems to target python-only and C++-only projects Jun 23 12:02:43 AStorm: indeed, but other than the butterfly none of the others grab me. Jun 23 12:03:11 hrw: What broke it, specifically? Jun 23 12:14:29 * Stskeeps swears at freenode Jun 23 12:15:27 RST38h: hildon-games-wrapper is non-gcc4 friendly and non-cross-compilable due to hardcoding CC Jun 23 12:27:50 * hrw -> off Jun 23 13:04:42 why on hell does maemo need texlive, fontforge, etc? Jun 23 13:05:23 when installing etch Jun 23 13:21:02 hello Jun 23 13:21:41 hello Jun 23 13:23:05 well my n810 survived a 3 foot drop onto concrete Jun 23 13:23:37 no dents -- hit the edge with the metal stand Jun 23 13:24:12 kudos nokia Jun 23 13:25:38 it's a truly sickening sound Jun 23 13:26:50 ow Jun 23 13:45:28 hello. How can I see the root folder of N800, on my pc? Jun 23 13:46:41 sftp Jun 23 13:46:54 after installing the openssh packages Jun 23 13:47:16 or sshfs Jun 23 13:47:33 w/ the same requirement + FUSE on your pc Jun 23 13:50:35 ok thank u :-) Jun 23 14:10:31 freenode reliable as ever Jun 23 14:10:31 wheres solmumaha Jun 23 14:10:31 wheres lcuk Jun 23 14:21:17 nicely dead here Jun 23 14:22:12 Someone did killall #maemo? Jun 23 14:22:44 netsplits kinda kill the mood Jun 23 14:24:09 hey johnx seen solmumaha, lcuk or kotczarny? Jun 23 14:24:11 not my mood Jun 23 14:24:28 pupnik810, not in the last couple hours Jun 23 14:28:11 ok ty Jun 23 14:34:54 damn Jun 23 14:35:00 he's back Jun 23 14:35:09 it appears esbox doesn't like scratchbox2 Jun 23 14:36:34 is there any workaround? Jun 23 14:42:06 I want to add to mplayer/config this "subcp=ISO-8859-7". Is it correct? Jun 23 14:42:32 brb Jun 23 14:44:29 sinak: Does it work? Jun 23 14:44:43 i didn't try it :-p Jun 23 14:44:55 ok i'll try it Jun 23 14:45:43 Oh no.. He's back! Jun 23 14:46:28 Forever isn't as long as it once was, but at least the return is in plain text. Jun 23 14:47:16 Yeah, so the bot theory is out of the window ;) Jun 23 14:47:24 anybody got sbox2 running on anything else than debian-like systems? Jun 23 14:53:14 X-Fade: perhaps someone tweaked the bot code? Jun 23 14:53:24 lardman: AI ? :) Jun 23 14:53:40 Nah, that would surely learn?! Jun 23 14:56:56 Is there an OpenMax mailing list anywhere? All I can see is a "technical" forum, with a few questions and not many answers Jun 23 15:00:30 lardman, Is this the "openMAX" that's related to gstreamer? Jun 23 15:01:02 johnx: yep Jun 23 15:02:02 there is a gstreamer-openmax list but it looks kinda...empty Jun 23 15:02:13 wow darius is back, and he is either sober... or tried to make a sentence that make sense... Jun 23 15:02:28 I'd try asking in #gstreamer Jun 23 15:03:00 trickie|work, he does from time to time, just to keep us off balance Jun 23 15:03:11 :) Jun 23 15:04:21 * johnx looks more at the openmax stuff...wonders if the tablet is already using this code or not... Jun 23 15:05:06 derf: ok, thanks Jun 23 15:05:29 johnx: not atm, the tablets use OMAP2-specific libdspgateway stuff Jun 23 15:06:03 I just hit arm.com where they claim to have an openmax compatible h264 codec...that seems interesting Jun 23 15:06:21 also, aac Jun 23 15:07:18 Robot101: I thought the openMAX stuff was above the implementation level, something between it and gstreamer Jun 23 15:07:24 For frack's sake, Darius is back. Jun 23 15:07:43 * Jaffa reads scrollback. Jun 23 15:08:02 lardman: right, but it's not being used atm, the dsp*{src,sink} elements use the DSP directly Jun 23 15:08:12 Jaffa: too much BSG? Jun 23 15:08:17 re Jun 23 15:08:27 Robot101: yep Jun 23 15:08:51 Robot101: I was looking to see if anyone Nokia related was popping up; I'd like to see seperate sinks and encoders Jun 23 15:10:04 hrw: found the cause of your battery woes yet? Jun 23 15:10:57 lardman: did not had time for it Jun 23 15:11:00 I guess I'm confused then...are these openmax optimized libraries something that could just be dropped in or would things need to be rewritten to take advantage of them? Jun 23 15:11:21 lardman: Maybe you can ping Felipe Contreras? Jun 23 15:12:08 johnx: some arm cpus have h264 in hardware Jun 23 15:13:37 hrw: Some omaps have h264 with hw assist; oh yeah, no IVA driver ;) Jun 23 15:13:48 hrw, and I'm happy for them. :) Jun 23 15:14:01 lardman: ST Nomadik cpus also have some audio/video encode/decode in hardware Jun 23 15:14:04 but the openmax stuff seems to be just ARM11 assembly Jun 23 15:14:43 johnx: it could equally be hw assist wrapped in the correct api, and likewise DSP stuff in the correct api Jun 23 15:14:50 + neon coprocessor apparently Jun 23 15:15:21 omap3530...? Jun 23 15:16:33 X-Fade: ah, he works for Nokia Jun 23 15:16:40 keesj: neon is not armv7 (cortex cores)? Jun 23 15:17:32 http://embeddedlinuxconference.com/elc2008/elc2008_004.htm#contreras Jun 23 15:17:34 lardman: Yes, and he seems to be releasing some versions. So... Jun 23 15:17:38 lardman, mainly I'm interested in how much effort it would be to use the optimized openmax stuff here: http://www.arm.com/products/esd/openmax_home.html Jun 23 15:17:40 on our tablets Jun 23 15:17:58 X-Fade: I'll do some looking at what he's doing before bothering him, but thanks for the pointer Jun 23 15:18:01 lardman: At least that is what I see on the gst-openmax list. Jun 23 15:18:51 alright neon would only be a target for the OpenMAX stuff Jun 23 15:24:00 http://www.khronos.org/openmax/whitepapers/OpenMAX_IL_with_GSstreamer.pdf for an overview of GStreamer & OpenMAX Jun 23 15:24:20 johnx: note that DL is only providing tools to write codecs, not the codecs themselves... So you'd have to implement an IL component that uses the DL layer to take advantage of it in applications. So it really would be quite a bit of work (which I'd very much want to see someone doing). Jun 23 15:24:50 zuh, ah, ok. now I get it Jun 23 15:24:54 Of course if there's a codec that already uses DL, that's another story. Jun 23 15:25:22 But for example the bellagio IL components do not AFAIK. Jun 23 15:25:33 (though I've never looked at them in detail) Jun 23 15:27:31 lbt: harsh msg to maemo-dev, but fair, I think ;-) Jun 23 15:29:42 X-Fade: where I can find sources for extras repositiry? Jun 23 15:30:04 hrw: What sources? Source packages? Jun 23 15:30:26 yes Jun 23 15:30:59 htw: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/source/ http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/free/source/ Jun 23 15:30:59 lardman: Also, there's an #openmax on freenode where sometimes people working on OpenMAX implementations hang out. IIRC I've seen Felipe there too, but the channel is not too populated... Jun 23 15:31:03 gacias Jun 23 15:31:13 Jaffa: and polite ? Jun 23 15:31:54 Interesting, so the real advantage of openMAX over GStreamer is that OpenMAX components can directly connect to one another (e.g. on the DSP) without coming back to the ARM side as might be needed with GStreamer Jun 23 15:32:11 lbt: depends - it reads as polite, but I'm not sure it was meant politely ;-) Jun 23 15:32:27 it was to the point Jun 23 15:32:37 * lbt looks around innocently... Jun 23 15:33:16 * lcuk finished his marathon vb run finally, now looks foreward to more vb \'^'/ Jun 23 15:34:09 * lbt notices that lcukmisspelled 'finally releasing some code' as 'more vb' Jun 23 15:34:26 * lbt goes for coffee and cover Jun 23 15:34:38 * Jaffa grins Jun 23 15:35:14 * aquatix grins along Jun 23 15:35:16 you dont have to duck :) just tell me how easy it is to put xvn or whatever is needed on my tablet so i can manage code to garage Jun 23 15:35:19 * lcuk has never used it Jun 23 15:35:25 svn ^ Jun 23 15:35:26 lardman: That and the loss of existing autoplugging ;) Jun 23 15:35:50 i installed svn on my tablet, but checking out a repository gave errors about lock files or something Jun 23 15:35:55 (when used directly, openmax through gstreamer is another matter of course) Jun 23 15:36:00 hmm, lcuk - I think you may want to look at http://wubi-installer.org Jun 23 15:36:06 zuh: I was really wondering why OpenMAX should be used with GStreamer, so yes, better together Jun 23 15:36:17 well that scuppers another damn fine idea - i do all dev work on the tablet Jun 23 15:36:53 lcuk, there's an svn client packaged I believe Jun 23 15:37:18 johnx, it should be available in scratchbox shouldnt it? cant i just use that one Jun 23 15:37:28 ie copy to tablet Jun 23 15:37:31 if it's an armel .dev, sure Jun 23 15:37:56 or you mean just copy binaries? Jun 23 15:38:04 s/dev/deb of course Jun 23 15:38:11 and nobody cares if my code blows up ? Jun 23 15:38:21 when run on your machines Jun 23 15:38:27 if it didn't we would feel ripped-off Jun 23 15:38:34 like we didn't get a chance to really beta test Jun 23 15:38:40 :D excellent Jun 23 15:38:54 yeah, we're bored with stable - sardine is dead... Jun 23 15:38:58 * lcuk wonders how many times he has been this close Jun 23 15:39:11 lcuk, subversion is in extras :P Jun 23 15:39:25 lardman, could i perhaps give you the missuses mail address, you could gently nudge her towards nudging me Jun 23 15:39:31 * lbt knocks lcuk with a feather Jun 23 15:40:52 johnx, is it easy to use, ie once configured i can just essentially "upload" Jun 23 15:41:00 or whatever it is thats needed Jun 23 15:41:24 lardman, felipec: You guys should talk to each other ;) Jun 23 15:41:35 err...not much experience with svn except for anon checkouts...so, sorry, I couldn't tell you :( Jun 23 15:41:47 X-Fade: yeah, I just saw that felipec was the man in question Jun 23 15:42:02 * lardman having problems with irc nicks vs real names as ever :) Jun 23 15:42:11 :) blind leading the blind, can i screw up garage by sending wrong commands to it Jun 23 15:42:23 svn is pretty simple Jun 23 15:42:26 uh? what's up? Jun 23 15:42:44 felipec: I was asking about OpenMAX Jun 23 15:42:48 lcuk: Yes you can, but we can always wipe it completely for you ;) Jun 23 15:43:34 * lcuk will have to go readup Jun 23 15:43:56 http://svnbook.red-bean.com/ Jun 23 15:44:00 felipec: specifically about seperating DSP filters/decoders/etc. from sinks Jun 23 15:44:03 i cant now - at work Jun 23 15:44:07 lardman: ah, then yes, I'm the guy :) Jun 23 15:44:40 felipec: So, is that the plan, are you moving to rewriting the DSP tasks as OpenMAX components? Jun 23 15:44:55 lardman: you mean the current gstreamer-dsp elements? Jun 23 15:45:15 felipec: No, I presume they will remain as they are, but for the omap35xx for example? ;) Jun 23 15:45:43 Or any possible future platform, whatever form it might take Jun 23 15:46:12 lardman: well, I'm not allowed to talk about Nokia plans, but we are going to use OpenMAX, yes Jun 23 15:46:21 cool Jun 23 15:46:34 will be good to be able to use other people's DSP work Jun 23 15:47:04 felipec, even though you cannot discuss future plans, when you get near those making the future plans, please tell them to use every bit of silicon on the boards and if they cant release drivers so we can ;) Jun 23 15:47:21 lardman: indeed, we also would like the dsp stuff more open Jun 23 15:47:22 and equally, I hope the one of the components will be a pcm sink, so anything the community might write could use it (rather than having to replace the DSP kernel/reverse engineer the api) Jun 23 15:47:42 fun.. maemo-mapper --enable-legacy == build for chinook... Jun 23 15:48:43 lcuk: we do that :) there's progress, but it's painfully slow Jun 23 15:48:59 * lcuk does understand Jun 23 15:49:34 * lardman must chase Quim to ask about why IVA was not used in omap2420 Jun 23 15:50:16 i would expect its cos its geared towards the framebuffer and not general memory? Jun 23 15:50:49 libgpsbt and libgpsmgr are closed? Jun 23 15:51:16 lcuk: No reason why it woudn't work afaict, and anyway, it's I think it's just a processing engine Jun 23 15:51:35 yer, the api is visible in 2430 driver Jun 23 15:51:41 i think Jun 23 15:52:18 driver? Jun 23 15:52:33 in the Ti kernel code? Jun 23 15:52:44 re Jun 23 15:52:48 yer Jun 23 15:52:50 I'm not an expert on that, but I would guess the fact that the dsp bridge is different from ti's bridge means there's porting/reimplementation required, since a lot of codecs needed to be supported that's not an easy task Jun 23 15:53:27 felipec: don't worry, it wasn't aimed at you :) Jun 23 15:53:39 felipec: and thanks for the news on OpenMAX :) Jun 23 15:53:40 someone know if initfs_flasher does work with latest n800 firmware ? (RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin) Jun 23 15:54:38 lardman: no problem, there's #openmax if you are interested :) Jun 23 15:55:00 although it's very silent lately Jun 23 15:55:10 ok, I'll join and lurk, quietly :) Jun 23 15:55:26 improve the codec and the sound level will improve Jun 23 15:55:51 # include "/usr/include/gpsbt.h" Jun 23 15:55:55 KILL!!! Jun 23 15:56:07 ~shoot maemo-mapper devs twice Jun 23 15:56:08 * infobot shoots maemo-mapper devs twice in the head with a frozen turkey cannon! Jun 23 15:56:22 what's up hrw? Jun 23 15:56:26 That header should be available Jun 23 15:56:38 good afternoon Jun 23 15:56:41 * pH5 googles openmax Jun 23 15:56:54 lardman: during cross-compilation? Jun 23 15:57:34 hrw: has the Maemo Mapper code progressed from one single .c file? ;-) Jun 23 15:57:43 I love amount of gcc3 only code in maemo apps Jun 23 15:57:48 hrw: I mean you should be able to download it Jun 23 15:57:50 Jaffa: it does Jun 23 15:58:08 lardman: the problem is in a path not in include name Jun 23 15:58:25 Jaffa: in ugly way - gcc4 does not like that code Jun 23 15:58:38 | menu.c:98: error: static declaration of '_menu_view_goto_nextway_item' follows non-static declaration Jun 23 15:58:42 | data.h:266: error: previous declaration of '_menu_view_goto_nextway_item' was here Jun 23 15:58:45 etc Jun 23 15:58:58 I am used to that.. or rather was... Jun 23 15:59:00 3 years ago Jun 23 15:59:14 is that just not compiling -wall or whatever it is Jun 23 15:59:33 and i mean the devs up until you got it today Jun 23 16:01:27 lcuk: gcc3 allow for many things which gcc4.x does not Jun 23 16:02:49 oooer, compiler gotten more paranoid Jun 23 16:11:08 lcuk_afk: I've just checked again, and no mention of the IVA in the omap2430 kernel source; where did you think you'd seen it? Jun 23 16:15:11 hmm, perhaps there are some traces after all Jun 23 16:15:18 ~lart WinXP search tools Jun 23 16:15:19 * infobot nabs the moon and broadsides WinXP search tools with the sea of tranquility Jun 23 16:15:34 home time Jun 23 16:16:16 "If the community can get a decent quality filter in extras and produce a bunch Jun 23 16:16:16 of amazing applications as good as or better than the ones proviced by Nokia Jun 23 16:16:17 and commercial partners" Jun 23 16:16:18 Ahahaha Jun 23 16:16:49 GeneralAntilles, then what happens? we just call it debian? Jun 23 16:17:08 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3279 Jun 23 16:19:06 hmm - how about renaming 'extras' as 'maemo' or something....? Jun 23 16:19:15 Huh? Jun 23 16:19:30 links the apps to the new 'community' concept? Jun 23 16:19:39 if anyone is using the app manager as their primary tool for finding out about new software I'd be surprised Jun 23 16:19:55 johnx, it's one of my tools. ;) Jun 23 16:19:59 and instead of adding apps to the shipped N8xx, you provide a community link.... Jun 23 16:20:07 GeneralAntilles, but not your first I'd bet Jun 23 16:20:16 We're not adding applications to the shipped devices, lbt. Jun 23 16:20:20 johnx, depends. Jun 23 16:20:52 but you may then provide an 'enable maemo' function Jun 23 16:20:58 I'm actually really happy with downloads.maemo.org and the nice big "click to install" arrows Jun 23 16:21:00 just like the 'enable skype' Jun 23 16:21:09 lbt, that would be incredibly confusing. Jun 23 16:21:14 "Maemo" is the OS, basically. Jun 23 16:21:22 So "enable Maemo" means enabled the OS? Jun 23 16:21:31 is maemo the OS? Jun 23 16:21:32 s/enabled/enable/ Jun 23 16:21:32 GeneralAntilles meant: So "enable Maemo" means enable the OS? Jun 23 16:21:42 maybe "Community" or "Contributed" but "Extras" seems fine really Jun 23 16:21:48 I thought maemo was the community? Jun 23 16:21:48 http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand Jun 23 16:22:33 maemo.org is the community. Jun 23 16:22:38 lbt, read the branding page. ;) Jun 23 16:22:43 yeah yeah, lots of things to define :) Jun 23 16:22:59 OK - I take your point about confusion!!! Jun 23 16:23:17 https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo-meeting/2 Jun 23 16:23:24 OK, July 3rd is the outside deadline. Jun 23 16:23:33 We need to get a topic and agenda together. Jun 23 16:23:35 the bug seemed to be that extras isn't enabled Jun 23 16:23:52 Yes, that was my main purpose Jun 23 16:24:03 but there are other ways around the hurdle of Extras being hard to find for new users. Jun 23 16:24:29 and 'extras' is a weak word - I was suggesting that the device could be 'community enabled' - which may just enable extras and then throw users at your new clarification page :) Jun 23 16:25:02 Well, Ubuntu uses, what, "Universe"? Jun 23 16:25:38 and, not knowing any better, I suggested maemo - maybe I should have suggested maemo.org... Jun 23 16:25:52 but universe is the ubuntu equivalent Jun 23 16:26:35 meh...people don't care what the category is called Jun 23 16:26:51 But wouldn't it be nice to have an 'enable community' type button/icon? (label tbd) Jun 23 16:27:03 I strongly believe that their first exposure to 3rd party software will be from downloads.maemo.org or some other site Jun 23 16:27:19 which will enable extras with a yes/no question anyways Jun 23 16:27:32 and as we all know: users always click yes O_o Jun 23 16:27:34 So provide a button to enable extras (for dependencies) and point them at the browser Jun 23 16:27:52 johnx, how many average users do you think actually make it there? Jun 23 16:27:57 OK - it was just an idea... Jun 23 16:27:58 I know there's no direct links from the tablet. Jun 23 16:28:06 * sp3000 tends to dislike using 'community' as a name for a box (or a demarcated domain of another shape) Jun 23 16:28:13 GeneralAntilles, that's where I would put your effort Jun 23 16:28:28 sp3000: so I used the brand maemo (without fully grokking it) Jun 23 16:28:32 getting a link on tableteer or on something linked from the default homescreen Jun 23 16:28:49 * sp3000 also agrees with the content first approach that johnx has Jun 23 16:28:50 johnx: yes - that's the kind of thing I meant... Jun 23 16:29:05 Meh, I'd rather do away with the whole "browsing for applications in the web browser" Jun 23 16:29:13 I'd much rather see that done in Application manager. Jun 23 16:29:20 rather than the 'hard-to-name blob' first approach :) Jun 23 16:29:29 GeneralAntilles: too poor a UI... Jun 23 16:29:30 GeneralAntilles, the app manager would have to come a long way very quickly for that to happen Jun 23 16:29:48 https://wiki.maemo.org/User:GeneralAntilles/Improving_the_Application_manager Jun 23 16:30:05 plus, a web search is just more likely to get you what you want Jun 23 16:30:19 there's only so much data about apps in their descriptions Jun 23 16:30:48 GeneralAntilles: OK - but a nice rich browser window with a 'click to trigger the app mgr' ??? Jun 23 16:31:08 it doesn't matter how good your description is, if *the user* somehow doesn't use a search term in it Jun 23 16:31:11 I tend to look at the app mgr and then google to find out what it is. Jun 23 16:31:20 also, users use the web browser *for everything* Jun 23 16:31:35 Anyway, I'm interested to see what will come with Fremantle. Jun 23 16:31:45 The words "kinetic scrolling" were tossed around a bit. . . . Jun 23 16:32:08 yeah - user's don't want aptitude... they want 'one click' to install this screenshot :) Jun 23 16:33:12 heh...a button that says "Make my tablet do what that guys tablet is doing!" Jun 23 16:33:12 do you have tags in the AppMgr? Jun 23 16:33:29 debtags? Not yet Jun 23 16:33:34 It's on the table, though. Jun 23 16:33:49 would suite a tablet ui I think... Jun 23 16:34:18 heirarchy views need real estate. Jun 23 16:34:34 so, how can one make esbox work with scratchbox2? Jun 23 16:35:06 johnx: now, show me a screenshot of a tablet with an clickable imagemap on all the cool widgets... Jun 23 16:35:10 mmm Jun 23 16:35:28 lbt, heh...now that would actually be neat Jun 23 16:36:33 Flickr? Jun 23 16:36:40 I think what I tend to miss most in appmrg is 1) incremental filtering search, 2) quick access to long desc, 3) what's new Jun 23 16:36:43 could do... Jun 23 16:36:50 (3) is of course kinda hard Jun 23 16:37:04 sp3000: yes - and I'd think tags is good for 1) Jun 23 16:37:22 3 comes from a dynamic tag based on age Jun 23 16:37:27 (2) is somewhat offset by the suckiness of many long descs, but at least it would expose it and motivate improvement Jun 23 16:37:44 (2) should have a mandatory garage link... Jun 23 16:37:52 I suppose (3) could be roughly "updated or new <1mo" Jun 23 16:37:58 I'd just like well-defined, standardized catagories. Jun 23 16:38:00 including Nokia apps Jun 23 16:38:33 sjgadsby: categories don't work Jun 23 16:38:35 sjgadsby: I tend to reflexively give up on categories as a bigger waste of time than just scanning through all ... Jun 23 16:38:47 the latter has a guarantee of completeness Jun 23 16:38:54 nobody can screw up "all" :) Jun 23 16:38:58 tags allow multiple category entries Jun 23 16:38:58 I think tags might be better than categories Jun 23 16:39:45 sp3000: that's what I always do too - I have to guess how many coffees the developer had had when he categorised it Jun 23 16:40:03 Eh, the tags in garage are terrible, so tags are no sure solution. Jun 23 16:40:11 * GeneralAntilles bangs his head on the wall. Jun 23 16:40:12 and if it was a "when she categorised it" then gawd knows where it would end up... :D Jun 23 16:40:12 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cite/Cite.php Jun 23 16:40:58 Personally, I like the idea of a QA team that sorts stuff. Jun 23 16:41:05 since developers seem to be unable to figure it out. Jun 23 16:46:05 "I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?" Jun 23 16:46:44 your line reminded me of this quote from office space Jun 23 16:47:46 i'm looking for firefox or opera for n800 but I can't find either of them Jun 23 16:49:29 sinak, look for "fennec" and "minefield", too interfaces to ff3 Jun 23 16:49:40 also, the builtin browser in OS2008 is based on ff3 Jun 23 16:50:17 ok thank you! Jun 23 16:54:24 So, the first Maemo-meeting was really long, anybody else think we should set some sort of reasonable duration for it since they're going to be monthly anyway? Jun 23 16:54:26 1-2 hours Jun 23 16:54:38 that sounds fair Jun 23 16:54:49 I felt sorry for how long Quim got stuck on the spot Jun 23 16:55:09 please tell me there will be some better moderation this time... Jun 23 16:55:15 y'know...any moderation Jun 23 16:55:21 I'd really rather this be something Quim looks forward to rather than dreading. :D Jun 23 16:55:25 https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-meeting Jun 23 16:55:34 Freenode just muxed around with their services Jun 23 16:55:40 So that may not be as possible as I'm hoping Jun 23 16:55:46 But, basically, the channel will be moderated Jun 23 16:56:08 There'll be 3-6 ops (eventually the council members + X-Fade, maybe others) Jun 23 16:56:19 hmm Jun 23 16:56:22 3-strikes you're out Jun 23 16:56:30 Everybody is granted voice by default Jun 23 16:56:40 but it'll be revoked if you use up your warnings. Jun 23 16:56:52 well, it's worth a shot Jun 23 16:57:02 we can always be more draconian if this doesn't work Jun 23 16:57:15 The first meeting wasn't really so much an issue of people not following rules and being bad Jun 23 16:57:22 Just there being no clear structure. ;) Jun 23 16:57:36 I think things will go a lot more smoothly if there's structure in place. Jun 23 16:57:52 ever the optimist Jun 23 16:57:54 Anyway, we need a topic and agenda pronto. Jun 23 16:58:14 Eh, like you said, we can always make it stricter the next time around. Jun 23 16:59:24 i had no idea about the maemo fennec Jun 23 16:59:29 * n800m installing Jun 23 16:59:31 It sucks. Jun 23 16:59:44 sinak: but remember that os2008 browser is based on firefox 3.0 alpha - before speedups.. Jun 23 16:59:49 yeah the version number is 0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.00000something Jun 23 16:59:54 still cool Jun 23 17:00:15 * hrw wants 50KB/s from maemo.org... Jun 23 17:00:19 i see Jun 23 17:00:30 X-Fade, ping. Jun 23 17:00:42 * hrw is playing with building maemo software with non-maemo environments Jun 23 17:01:41 hrw, me too actually Jun 23 17:01:49 hrw, working on maemo mapper right now? Jun 23 17:04:04 johnx: no - I got other application for testing Jun 23 17:04:14 hm fennec's not usable on n800 ;/ Jun 23 17:04:37 hrw, I'm curious :) which ones? Jun 23 17:05:37 johnx: maemosweeper currently Jun 23 17:05:50 johnx: it got built, now playing with hildon-desktop Jun 23 17:06:35 I'm trying to dig into tinymail/modest...but it looks a little intimidating O_o Jun 23 17:07:55 maemo.org, now featuring the new and improved Dial-up Simulator! Jun 23 17:08:26 but no fun modem noises Jun 23 17:08:46 * GeneralAntilles files an angry bug. Jun 23 17:10:26 heh...writing recipes for OE is kind of a pain...but it beats the heck out of writing deb packages O_o Jun 23 17:10:34 johnx: pain? Jun 23 17:10:47 dealing with brain-dead build systems mostly Jun 23 17:10:54 most of maemo is "inherit autotools \n\nSRC_URI = 'location'" Jun 23 17:11:05 johnx: then it is pain with any system Jun 23 17:11:09 right Jun 23 17:11:17 and less pain than any other system I can think of Jun 23 17:11:20 gtk_window_set_is_temporary is maemo-only function? Jun 23 17:15:07 it is Jun 23 17:30:13 hehehe Jun 23 17:30:16 http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Position_Statement_on_Linux_Kernel_Modules Jun 23 17:36:47 AStorm: Cute, how these guys will make public statements but won't standardize on a binary driver interface for Linux Jun 23 17:37:16 Why on Earth would they do that? Jun 23 17:37:57 derf: To let manufacturers provide drivers that will work on different Linuxes Jun 23 17:38:01 without recompilation Jun 23 17:38:01 RST38h: you can write userspace drivers Jun 23 17:38:05 RST38h: they make the statement so that there would be no binary drivers Jun 23 17:38:15 RST38h: and that api was iirc declared as stable Jun 23 17:38:46 AStorm: oh, this is highly constructive =) I am sure their valiant statement will scare every manufacturer into providing source code Jun 23 17:38:57 hehe Jun 23 17:39:04 hrw: Why don't Nokia et al use it then? Jun 23 17:39:35 RST38h: because umac was written before they were invented? Jun 23 17:39:48 RST38h: umac is 2.6.16 if not even older Jun 23 17:40:01 userspace drivers are 2.6.20+ iirc Jun 23 17:40:13 still Jun 23 17:40:18 there's prism54 Jun 23 17:40:32 Nokia could hire someone to bring it to Maemo Jun 23 17:40:46 AStorm: what they would have to invest money if they have working driver? Jun 23 17:40:49 someone did a part of SPI work Jun 23 17:40:51 hrw: oh Jun 23 17:40:55 hrw: s/working/PITA/ Jun 23 17:41:05 and they had to invest money anyway Jun 23 17:41:16 AStorm: for their definition it is working Jun 23 17:41:22 they could investe much smaller amount of money and port umac to userland driver api Jun 23 17:41:32 RST38h: hmm, no Jun 23 17:41:36 NDA, you see Jun 23 17:41:37 and maybe somebody (X-Fade?) should bring it up with Nokia Jun 23 17:41:39 RST38h: It doesn't matter if their statement discourage binary drivers or not. Jun 23 17:41:47 But they have _just_ _said_ their goal is to not have any. Jun 23 17:41:52 AStorm: They can still release it in binary form Jun 23 17:41:59 And then going and doing something that would make that easier would be ridiculously stupid. Jun 23 17:42:08 AStorm: So NDA is not being touched here Jun 23 17:42:10 RST38h: it would have to be abstracted much more Jun 23 17:42:20 to not use any kernel interfaces Jun 23 17:42:30 derf: You misunderstand their statement, sorry Jun 23 17:42:47 RST38h: no, you do Jun 23 17:42:51 AStorm: Well, then it is back to Linux developers Jun 23 17:42:59 "We, the undersigned Linux kernel developers, consider any closed-source Linux kernel module or driver to be harmful and undesirable." Jun 23 17:43:00 the statement clearly says they don't want binary drivers Jun 23 17:43:04 in the case of umac would a userspace driver mean that data is handed back and forth between kernelspace and userspace? Jun 23 17:43:06 What part of that says, "Binary drivers are okay." Jun 23 17:43:15 AStorm: Who ought to provide a binary driver interface rather than bitch about developers not making drivers available Jun 23 17:43:23 RST38h: blah Jun 23 17:43:28 just make open driver Jun 23 17:43:31 plus closed firmware Jun 23 17:43:33 that is ok Jun 23 17:43:40 AStorm: not always possible Jun 23 17:43:43 assuming firmware isn't tied to version of the driver too much Jun 23 17:43:52 almost always possible if worthwhile Jun 23 17:43:54 What makes you think there is firmware in every device? Jun 23 17:43:56 esp. possible with Wifi Jun 23 17:44:03 With wifi - maybe Jun 23 17:44:10 Not with all the other stuff Jun 23 17:44:11 with gfx card? Jun 23 17:44:15 gfx card - no Jun 23 17:44:17 (see, nVidia) Jun 23 17:44:21 no, you're wrong Jun 23 17:44:23 :> Jun 23 17:44:33 Even with nVidia - not entirely Jun 23 17:44:35 they do almost that Jun 23 17:44:38 With PowerVR - maybe Jun 23 17:44:39 AStorm: they released 770, n800, n810(wme) with umac and it works (for their definition of work). I hope that if they will make new tablet at all then it will not be another from this family Jun 23 17:44:42 close enough to port it Jun 23 17:44:55 hrw: omap3? Jun 23 17:45:26 AStorm: would be nice ;) Jun 23 17:45:45 I don't see it being anything else. Jun 23 17:45:46 guys: liblocation is open or closed? Jun 23 17:45:56 hrw, closed Jun 23 17:46:10 fsck Jun 23 17:46:17 everyhting in location stack is closed (except gpsd) Jun 23 17:46:19 hrw: you see, closed = PITA :> Jun 23 17:46:21 so goodbye omweather Jun 23 17:46:31 gps could be open + firmware too, if they wanted Jun 23 17:46:41 gps is very simple Jun 23 17:46:46 AStorm: it is userland library Jun 23 17:46:46 yes Jun 23 17:46:48 Anybody interested in helping with the increasing transparency plan? http://wiki.maemo.org/Increasing_transparency Jun 23 17:46:49 it talks to the mothership via two serial ports Jun 23 17:46:57 yup Jun 23 17:47:03 So we are not even talking a kernel level driver or even a userland driver Jun 23 17:47:06 Wifi talks to motherchip ;) through SPI Jun 23 17:47:18 A simple program that runs as a filter between gps and the system should suffice Jun 23 17:47:19 that needs to be ported to prism54 Jun 23 17:47:28 then add firmware and voila, it runs Jun 23 17:47:28 AStorm: TI lists two ways: serial and SPI Jun 23 17:47:45 AStorm: I guess N810 uses SPI for simplicity, but it is still serial in principle Jun 23 17:48:07 SPI is serial, but a different form of it Jun 23 17:48:10 not UART Jun 23 17:48:13 I know Jun 23 17:48:16 synchronous serial Jun 23 17:48:32 most chips will support both nowadays Jun 23 17:57:02 bye Jun 23 18:01:33 Sure nobody wants to help with http://wiki.maemo.org/Increasing_transparency ? Jun 23 18:02:06 GeneralAntilles, I'll look for a bit Jun 23 18:02:13 going to bed in a couple minutes though Jun 23 18:02:18 https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_package_source_status Jun 23 18:02:32 I'm fed up dealing with autotools anyways O_o Jun 23 18:06:25 added "Libraries" to the list of categories...especially since that's what I care about the most Jun 23 18:09:50 hey guys. are there some good links how to test the new diablo os? Jun 23 18:10:09 "test"? Jun 23 18:10:24 qos, nope Jun 23 18:10:45 test means that it is not released yet, but you guys are already running it Jun 23 18:11:01 qos, then, nope. Jun 23 18:11:10 Nuts. libwww-perl on the tablets doesn't include SSL support. Jun 23 18:11:24 We were asked specifically not to distribute that information. Jun 23 18:11:35 anyone outside Nokia who has "diablo" doesn't have it through official channels Jun 23 18:11:38 asked by? Jun 23 18:11:42 Nokia Jun 23 18:13:01 The error was: ³bad server response² (NSURLErrorDomain:-1011) Jun 23 18:13:05 GeneralAntilles: nice url :( Jun 23 18:13:12 so, who told you? ;) Jun 23 18:13:27 we figured it out on our own Jun 23 18:13:32 ^ Jun 23 18:13:37 timely, which url? Jun 23 18:13:57 qos, there are some clues on internettablettalk.com/forums, but I won't say anything more than that Jun 23 18:15:49 sp3000: nokia screwed up all by hiding non user/ things, no? :) Jun 23 18:16:09 i know about them, for that reason i was a bit staggered to hear nokia asked you not to spread these information. one would imagine that nokia stops those topics too... Jun 23 18:16:22 GeneralAntilles: 60-90mins tops Jun 23 18:16:33 qos, stops topics on public forums? Jun 23 18:16:47 what is the best imap client for the n810 ? Jun 23 18:16:53 Modest Jun 23 18:16:58 thx Jun 23 18:17:04 timely, for Maemo-meeting? Jun 23 18:17:18 I like modest but if you want more features look at claws Jun 23 18:17:32 GeneralAntilles, the page looks pretty good to me. anything specific you want me to look at? Jun 23 18:17:45 I need help executing the plan. Jun 23 18:17:49 Getting the templates together and up to speed Jun 23 18:17:53 figuring out procedure Jun 23 18:17:58 getting the package list Jun 23 18:18:02 determining source status Jun 23 18:18:06 johnx, anyhow those forums which are controlled by guys like reggie Jun 23 18:18:06 morning all Jun 23 18:18:08 putting together a couple of example petitions. Jun 23 18:18:25 anyone know about using bluetooth SPP on os2008? Jun 23 18:18:53 qos, Reggie did make an appearance and urged people not to spread any more info. Nokia people said the same thing here. Jun 23 18:19:25 basically, I want a serial device in /dev after I pair a device with spp, but I'm not sure which kernel modules / scripts I need to get that Jun 23 18:19:56 any rumors about the offical release date? Jun 23 18:20:13 improving app managar Jun 23 18:20:43 you're in luck, I make up a new rumor everyday Jun 23 18:21:07 qos: it'll be in the channel topic when it's ready Jun 23 18:21:13 * johnx throws a dart...jan 1 1970 or sometime in 2038...but what's the difference? Jun 23 18:21:19 it's not in the hands of nokia engineers Jun 23 18:21:30 at this point, we don't have a clue in whose hands it really is Jun 23 18:21:42 so anyone telling you differently is almost certainly smoking something Jun 23 18:21:43 anyone? seems like this should be pretty simple, as most (all?) bluetooth GPS devices use bluetooth serial Jun 23 18:21:46 asking is just annoying. so don't. Jun 23 18:21:50 how can I get the imei number using python? Jun 23 18:24:01 timely, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:GeneralAntilles/Improving_the_Application_manager That work better? Jun 23 18:26:52 yes Jun 23 18:32:40 i love maemo Jun 23 18:32:46 * Mousey humps maemo's leg Jun 23 18:33:04 what brought this on? Jun 23 18:33:07 Damn http://www.marceloeduardo.com/blog/design/user-interface-design/carman-is-also-alive-news-upcoming-update Jun 23 18:33:23 johnx: i just keep using it, and it just keeps making me grin Jun 23 18:33:28 giant security hole it is, Jun 23 18:33:35 meh, where is / how to i get the serial device after pairing a bluetooth serial device? Jun 23 18:33:40 and some programs forget that fingers are the pointing device of choice Jun 23 18:33:51 i'd like to get Bluetooth PAN workin too Jun 23 18:34:01 but hey, my ignorance is not the device's shortcoming Jun 23 18:34:14 Oh hell yes: http://www.marceloeduardo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/35.jpg Jun 23 18:35:11 wow...I didn't know you could get odometer data out of an ODBII iface O_o Jun 23 18:35:27 well...duh...I guess if you can get speed Jun 23 18:35:57 too bad gas will be like $7/gal by the next time I see a car :/ Jun 23 18:36:07 still cheap as hell Jun 23 18:36:10 compared to what i pay Jun 23 18:36:16 I believe it Jun 23 18:36:23 it's just not cheap compared to what I used to pay Jun 23 18:36:27 1.60 euro for a liter Jun 23 18:37:20 GeneralAntilles: is that a canola plugin? Jun 23 18:37:20 that's about $9/gallon Jun 23 18:37:24 Jun 23 18:37:25 ;) Jun 23 18:37:31 Mousey, no, it's a separate application. Jun 23 18:37:45 GeneralAntilles: neat Jun 23 18:37:46 oh Jun 23 18:38:06 I miss the summer of 2001 (WRT to gas prices) Jun 23 18:38:08 that's really hot Jun 23 18:38:13 does it measure start/stops or something? Jun 23 18:38:17 johnx: ghehe Jun 23 18:38:34 It's OBDII, and, seemingly, GPS Jun 23 18:39:11 I need to get the ElmScan and the BT adaptor back into the car. Jun 23 18:39:38 wow...there is tons of crazy stuff you can get out of OBDII Jun 23 18:39:49 * johnx needs to catch up on these new-fangled automobiles Jun 23 18:39:54 Depends on the car a bit Jun 23 18:40:23 You'll get a lot more out of a high-end BMW than you will out of, say, my Camry. Jun 23 18:40:59 of course, but my baseline reference is an 84 supra I used to have. That was like the first year it had a real digital ECU. Before that the ECU was mostly analog circuitry Jun 23 18:41:13 lol Jun 23 18:41:54 high-end 80's electronics are terrifying Jun 23 18:42:13 ghehe Jun 23 18:51:58 http://www.byterapers.com/BeatEd/gallery/ Jun 23 18:53:32 * lcuk_afk is a pirate Jun 23 18:54:12 http://www.mandolux.com/archive/2006/0601.html Jun 23 18:54:29 yaaaaaarrrrr Jun 23 18:55:17 * lcuk searches for eye patches Jun 23 19:32:55 I tweaked https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_package_source_status... Jun 23 19:52:48 "Gary liquid has a very nice smooth scrolling gui that I'm interested in." odes he really Jun 23 19:52:55 lbt Jun 23 19:55:59 God, I hate "this is not a bug, as it's consistent with the spec" Jun 23 19:56:08 Well then the spec is broken and needs to be changed! Jun 23 19:56:23 s/hate/hate responses like/ Jun 23 19:56:47 which spec Jun 23 19:56:52 HAVA Jun 23 19:57:04 They don't show the rotating long-press animation on long-presses. Jun 23 19:57:05 no need to laugh i was only asking :P Jun 23 19:57:16 rofl Jun 23 19:57:18 Which goes against the platform. Jun 23 19:57:41 "This is a good idea, but to be consistent with the rest of the application a rotating indictor is not part of the product spec." Jun 23 19:57:41 How do I get that animation? I wanted it in my app... (to fit in) Jun 23 19:57:48 well you're gonna hate mine - its not even hildonized Jun 23 19:57:55 lcuk, that's fine. Jun 23 19:58:10 But their product kinda pretends to be a Hildon application. Jun 23 19:58:27 mine is :) Even has does dbus messages .... all for a shopping list! Jun 23 19:58:31 I don't have any issues with things that are obviously not Hildon stuff (like Canola) not comply with the platform spec. Jun 23 19:58:31 yer i dont even offer a "not full screen" option (though its in code and works nicely) Jun 23 19:58:47 lcuk: wouldn't know... Jun 23 19:58:49 But if your application pretends to be Hildon, then it should comply with the platform UI spec. Jun 23 20:00:03 so GeneralAntilles, where is the platform spec for long presses and the docs that tell you how to do it in Hildon? Jun 23 20:00:14 is it gtk_widget_tap_and_hold_menu_position_top Jun 23 20:00:19 Check the maemo docs Jun 23 20:00:21 I don't know. Jun 23 20:00:34 * lcuk wishes he had never started to move to database Jun 23 20:00:44 I've been looking for a couple of days - but since you kind of brought it up... Jun 23 20:00:50 ah well... Jun 23 20:01:13 lcuk: hash buckets... Jun 23 20:01:17 lbt, what does your shopping list do then Jun 23 20:01:26 thats for partying Jun 23 20:02:42 Databases are for ladies! Jun 23 20:02:54 lcuk :http://zaurus-shopper.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html Jun 23 20:03:10 well i thought that, but now ive got 476 files to read and process Jun 23 20:03:18 way cool eh? Jun 23 20:03:30 dunno, you put a colon in front i cant click yet.. Jun 23 20:03:37 lcuk: http://zaurus-shopper.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html Jun 23 20:03:48 VB coder Jun 23 20:04:27 boring but useful Jun 23 20:04:28 your shopping list looks like mine, except yours uses real fonts :P Jun 23 20:04:54 and things disappear when you tick them Jun 23 20:05:08 and when they've all gone, the N800 blue light flashes... Jun 23 20:05:09 cool Jun 23 20:05:13 super Jun 23 20:06:03 like I said - I just needed to remember C and now C++ and the zaurus battery is dead so I got to buy an N800 on condition I ported Shopper to it.... Jun 23 20:06:27 and I'm not allowed to buy steak until it's done... Jun 23 20:06:30 lcuk: read http://www.prevayler.org/wiki/ and think about the current versioned system you just created, all you need is to also store a full set net to your changes file Jun 23 20:06:36 bloody managers... Jun 23 20:08:50 lcuk: what are you using a DB for? Jun 23 20:10:19 (keesj, reading now, looks similar to other things ive thought about/implemented in the past) lbt, you have seen the sketch program - ive got about 500 individual sketches each with their own pages strokes points tags and meta info. restoriing from file just to view the graffiti wall is getting laborious Jun 23 20:10:48 and managing tags was painful Jun 23 20:12:17 a thought: in large scale 3d modelling you only read in 'nearby' nodes. Jun 23 20:12:19 i needed a way to scale up beyond those limitations, but i will also need network connectivity as well Jun 23 20:13:08 some RPGs page in scene information from just beyond the player's visibility boundary - you're not a million miles from that pattern Jun 23 20:13:17 its not *that* bad yet, its just a few seconds loading, but its not as slick as i want it. i have a target and know (cos ive been testing) that sqlite can give it me Jun 23 20:13:31 yeah - but Jun 23 20:13:42 all in memory at once - kinda limiting Jun 23 20:14:13 and - records for rpg *still* need to be sorted and selected quickly, i really cant be arsed reinventing the wheel for everything, the db does sorting and grouping better than my file system could Jun 23 20:14:37 hashes are good for that kind of thing Jun 23 20:14:45 once i have it i can do all what you say and initialise the records at the right time Jun 23 20:14:49 what builds the hashes... Jun 23 20:14:57 I did some work on git a while back Jun 23 20:15:25 and how often do they change (the whole surface is fluid - each sketch can resize and move at will according to the base object model Jun 23 20:15:55 Is a sketch a self contained unit though? Jun 23 20:16:31 yes - currently there is a frame class which contains a sketch, its the bare frames which move and adjust and render the contained sketch as required Jun 23 20:16:53 so define it, create a hash of it's contents, store the hash in a heirarchy, note where the hash is in on the 2d space Jun 23 20:17:01 git does that. Jun 23 20:17:15 your 2d space map is a list of hashes. Jun 23 20:17:21 then the user clicks on a sketch and moves it - new hash required Jun 23 20:17:27 Every sketch is unique so has a unique hash Jun 23 20:17:39 well, if they *move* it Jun 23 20:17:41 its not that bad - the ONLY thing im even remotely bothered about was the initial loading time Jun 23 20:17:45 the hash doesn't change Jun 23 20:17:47 I am so happy I don't do databases any more! Jun 23 20:18:05 the 2d space changes Jun 23 20:18:19 and it gives you an infinite space Jun 23 20:18:24 and network capabilities Jun 23 20:18:36 you can throw a hash to another device Jun 23 20:18:43 it appears on their tablet Jun 23 20:18:50 oh - i best tell you - i have all these strokes and sketches now, i will be processing them into island groups and normalizing them to give a set of similar characters Jun 23 20:19:16 * lcuk did the brainwork a couple of years ago in vb ;) Jun 23 20:19:21 I'm actually describing a lot of what git does - the linux kernel version control system? Jun 23 20:19:44 yer i know what you are on about and i understand Jun 23 20:19:50 OK - checking Jun 23 20:19:51 :) Jun 23 20:20:05 it's powerful but can be a space hog Jun 23 20:20:24 you don't need to keep versions (but you could) Jun 23 20:20:25 i suppose these sketches would be like that - network awareness has been pondered Jun 23 20:20:31 it already does Jun 23 20:20:42 yep, take a sketch and beam it to another N800... Jun 23 20:20:48 opening a sketch to edit and saving does not remove the old - i have full history Jun 23 20:20:51 take 2 sketches and merge them Jun 23 20:21:03 display the history Jun 23 20:21:10 OK - git has a concept called packing Jun 23 20:21:18 well merging i was going to do with frames, just like setting up a form Jun 23 20:21:37 sketch here, another one there, make that bigger flip that one rotate that one etc Jun 23 20:21:48 don't know the object heirarchy... Jun 23 20:22:09 merging should join the containers Jun 23 20:22:18 (probably...) Jun 23 20:22:20 you can see it - ive printed it and its on the wall at the side Jun 23 20:22:28 lemmesee Jun 23 20:22:31 lol Jun 23 20:22:38 hmm, your camera is off Jun 23 20:22:43 give me a moment.... Jun 23 20:23:39 the thing about a hash system is that it doesn't have the overhead of a DB - and most of the time you don't want a DB Jun 23 20:23:46 you just want a DB's blob store Jun 23 20:24:18 are you registered here in #maemo Jun 23 20:25:27 You don't register for a channel. :P Jun 23 20:25:30 how do you mean? Jun 23 20:25:31 You register for the network. Jun 23 20:26:12 lbt, its ok you are i think - or ive turned off anon access Jun 23 20:33:23 I found a way to have canola play playlists with flv files Jun 23 20:33:35 you officially rock Jun 23 20:33:37 just rename the flv to mpeg :| Jun 23 20:33:38 imho Jun 23 20:33:40 I know Jun 23 20:33:46 really? That's it? Jun 23 20:33:49 yeah Jun 23 20:33:54 its just a frontend Jun 23 20:33:56 that rocks Jun 23 20:34:21 well I regret it though Jun 23 20:34:47 on the second file it started screaming this insanely high pitch sound Jun 23 20:35:22 so it doesnt rock Jun 23 20:35:55 now I have to put some new cotton into my ears Jun 23 20:41:28 GeneralAntilles: Ping? Jun 23 20:47:28 X-Fade, pong. Jun 23 20:48:35 GeneralAntilles: I showed Marius your application manager page and he liked it very much. Jun 23 20:48:51 Excellent! :D Jun 23 20:49:45 He is willing to work with the community and even give them commit access to the project. (We need to do it in an experimental branch and need to work some more things out) Jun 23 20:50:29 But let's work that out in the near future. Jun 23 20:51:17 I'll try to get back to you on that later this week. Jun 23 20:51:21 I'm assuming you saw? https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo-meeting Jun 23 20:52:21 Yes, and also the other meetings Quim suggested. I will try to put them in the event calendar on maemo.org too. Jun 23 20:53:44 We need to do a practice run of a meeting too. To see how we would do moderation etc. Jun 23 20:54:01 I'll help :) Jun 23 20:54:16 Yeah, the Freenode services just changed fairly significantly, too. Jun 23 20:54:24 and I'm not sure we can do voice-by-default. :\ Jun 23 20:54:51 lbt: You can play the guy who gets banned ;) Jun 23 20:55:04 I can heckle... Jun 23 20:55:08 ask lcuk Jun 23 20:55:24 Hehe, well more on that later too. Jun 23 20:55:31 I really need to get some sleep. Jun 23 20:55:39 Hehe Jun 23 20:56:54 Jun 23 20:59:22 Is it poosible to disable the stylus keyboard in OS2008 or at least set the finger keyboard as default? Jun 23 20:59:59 yes. Place a fat glass slab on the screen Jun 23 21:00:09 atezun, only if you have an N810. Jun 23 21:00:19 i kid Jun 23 21:01:55 ah well, thanks though Jun 23 21:02:57 in that case anyone know where to email feedback to nokia then? Jun 23 21:08:15 atezun, bugs.maemo.org Jun 23 21:08:21 but the issue you're having is mostly solved by Diablo. Jun 23 21:26:47 It's too bad you can't ban people from the mailing list for "idiot". Jun 23 21:28:14 GeneralAntilles: ?? Jun 23 21:28:29 Speaking generally. :P Jun 23 21:28:41 Although Mr. Mark Haury is a front-runner at the moment. Jun 23 21:29:00 not Darius? Jun 23 21:29:43 He's more craazy than anything, and we can already ban him for html. :D Jun 23 21:53:52 ermmm GeneralAntilles whats the repo list site from the topic? (or to teach me to fish, how do i reshow the topic of this chan?) Jun 23 21:54:34 Depends on your client. Jun 23 21:54:40 /topic will show the topic for some Jun 23 21:54:54 tis ok :) i didnt drown, thanks it worked Jun 23 22:54:43 Has anyone connected the NIT to a linux desktop via Bluetooth for use as a removable media device? Jun 23 22:54:53 *anyone here Jun 23 22:56:42 Why not just use wifi? Jun 23 22:56:44 Much faster. Jun 23 22:58:10 Well, I guess I am trying to get around the SSH requirements. Jun 23 22:58:28 Also, I like knowing that when the BT is disconnected, the files are inaccessble. Jun 23 22:58:46 What ssh requirements? Jun 23 22:58:54 With WiFi, the share is "open" so long as the device is connected to the I-net Jun 23 22:59:22 I assumed you were meaning SFTP when you said wifi Jun 23 22:59:47 That's one option, yes. Jun 23 22:59:54 But there are only about a half a million others. Jun 23 23:00:40 That do not have an SSH requirement? Jun 23 23:01:08 Well, anyway, what were you meaning if not SFTP ? Jun 23 23:01:39 theres smb port too i think Jun 23 23:01:55 or nfs i guess Jun 23 23:02:36 I guess NFS - would fit that specification. Would nneed to set up an authentication service for it... Jun 23 23:03:09 Anyway, about that bluetooth file share ... no one has that set up? Windows or Linux? Jun 23 23:03:11 if you setup networking through bt(which i think possible) then any protocol would do Jun 23 23:03:45 I am having trouble setting up a persistent connection - although the NIT sends files to the desktop with no issues. Jun 23 23:04:25 I get a "Can't get device information: Success" error when I try to pair it. Jun 23 23:05:48 The bluetooth utilities on linux are not anything to write home about, either, I guess, so I figured I would ask in here. ;) Jun 23 23:07:26 Anyone use twitter on maemo? Any good client? Jun 23 23:08:14 * sinak gn Jun 23 23:11:05 mitter Jun 23 23:11:13 http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=twitter+maemo Jun 23 23:17:55 GeneralAntilles: just been trying it... doesn't seem to update, though Jun 23 23:18:29 And I'm now not sure if that's a bug or a connection throttle :-) Jun 23 23:24:49 Anyone here have any experience with Bluetooth serial? If I understand correctly, I need to use `rfcomm bind` right? Jun 23 23:38:48 Using RTCOMM for IRC seems to lead to frequent watchdog reboots. Jun 23 23:39:18 rtcomm sucks for IRC Jun 23 23:39:28 xchat is the way to go Jun 23 23:40:05 I know. You've told me, but its so convenient. Jun 23 23:40:22 'convenient' :P Jun 23 23:40:51 I'll stop being lazy and try xchat. Jun 23 23:41:30 Reboots are inconvenient, after all. Jun 23 23:43:42 file a bug report :) Jun 23 23:44:08 I will. Jun 23 23:44:51 It is the rtcomm beta, right? Jun 23 23:45:03 Yes. Jun 23 23:45:31 yeah that borked my tablet too Jun 23 23:46:23 I'd definitely recommend the Collabora Telepathy plugins to most people. Jun 23 23:47:20 Creepy https://wiki.maemo.org/images/8/8e/Maemo.org_logo_contest_blaxnux1-hand_ok_sign.png Jun 23 23:48:00 * Maximander agrees Jun 23 23:49:57 the more info is in the bug report, the better :) Jun 23 23:50:07 where's the kernel .config on os2008? Jun 23 23:50:25 trying to figure out what's built in... Jun 23 23:50:50 'it's broke. fix it.' Jun 23 23:52:16 andre___: That's why I haven't submitted a bug report on it yet. I get frequent reboots, but I haven't found how to trigger one exactly. Jun 23 23:52:27 * Maximander wishes that making /proc/config.gz were enabled on ALL binary distributions Jun 23 23:53:09 sjgadsby, a good way to reproduce is always appreciated, but sometimes it makes sense to file a report and wait for people with "more wisdom" to comment and help how to track down Jun 23 23:53:30 Hehe Jun 23 23:53:36 Probably these days more than it did a year ago. Jun 23 23:53:52 definitely :-) Jun 23 23:53:54 i currently try to collect knowledge to improve my questions to reporters, but it always takes some time :) Jun 23 23:54:34 funny because i currently study the same issue for an exam (management of knowledge and its redundancy) Jun 23 23:57:16 Ha Jun 23 23:57:19 hmm... https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_blaxnux1-hand_ok_sign.png - i think in some cultures this does not mean "OK" but something very rude ;-) Jun 23 23:57:41 Aha, I hadn't thought of that. Jun 23 23:57:52 I was mostly just creeped out by it. Jun 23 23:57:57 Now he likes it. Jun 23 23:58:11 harhar Jun 23 23:58:18 ah, in brazil according to http://www.cracked.com/article_16335_7-innocent-gestures-that-can-get-you-killed-overseas.html Jun 23 23:58:28 (warning: offending language in that link) Jun 24 00:00:55 time to sleep, classes in 7 hours... night Jun 24 00:28:53 Is anyone else having problems downloading garnetvm from the website? I've filled out the form but when I click on the link in the e-mail it just redirects me to the main page. Jun 24 00:29:40 you *really* need to pick a name :P Jun 24 00:29:53 I *still* just see "mouser" Jun 24 00:30:55 ok, that works :P Jun 24 00:31:11 This will do for now :) Jun 24 00:36:26 sjgadsby, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugsquad have you hit this yet? Jun 24 00:49:31 I'm looking for a download link for garnetvm. I've filled in the form on their site but the I received in the e-mail redirects me to the main page. Jun 24 00:53:40 use a desktop browser or w3m (text mode) Jun 24 00:53:51 their system is broq for the N800 browser :/ Jun 24 00:54:18 I did, but had the same thing happen. Jun 24 00:55:32 *shrug* w3m worked for me Jun 24 00:56:25 I'll try w3m Jun 24 01:03:16 Well, i don't have a linux box to try w3m, but I tryed it in lynx and had the same result. Jun 24 01:06:32 *shrug* Jun 24 01:06:37 you are allowing cookies right? Jun 24 01:07:16 Yeah Jun 24 01:27:30 ttfn \o Jun 24 01:38:21 hey, I'm about to upload a video on youtube. what is the best format to upload? Jun 24 01:38:33 Which is the best compression? Jun 24 01:38:46 h.264 Jun 24 01:39:03 theora hurhurhur Jun 24 01:39:50 It doesn't matter, Youtube will re-encode it to 3gp, mpeg-4 and h.264 formats Jun 24 01:40:35 Upload it as 720p h.264 Jun 24 01:40:46 Just to use up their storage. :P Jun 24 01:41:01 ok Jun 24 01:42:03 I have it at as mov right now. its about 17 megs. youtube say that it will take about 1-5 per meg Jun 24 02:07:48 Don't bake with your tablet! Jun 24 02:08:00 * GeneralAntilles got flour all over his N800 while measuring and reading the recipe. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 24 02:59:56 2008