**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 25 02:59:57 2008 Jun 25 03:04:51 hows the flashing going anyone with problems Jun 25 03:05:30 I'm curious as to the same. Should I be expecting a Firefox-esque "the following add-ons are incompatible..."? Jun 25 03:05:37 No Jun 25 03:05:44 It's 99% compatible with Chinook. Jun 25 03:05:49 Yay Jun 25 03:05:49 Hurray! Jun 25 03:06:02 libssl was the only major library change Jun 25 03:06:06 what's flashing? Jun 25 03:06:08 new version? Jun 25 03:06:22 yep Jun 25 03:06:31 ooh! what's new? Jun 25 03:06:41 is it dev or full version? Jun 25 03:06:59 from flashing to flash . hows,the video Jun 25 03:07:58 It was updated Jun 25 03:08:01 Small improvement. Jun 25 03:08:13 thats ok Jun 25 03:11:25 what's changed in the new version? Jun 25 03:11:50 A few things Jun 25 03:11:59 like? Jun 25 03:12:07 Updated Application manager Jun 25 03:12:10 IPv6 support Jun 25 03:12:12 browser was updated Jun 25 03:12:14 flash was updated Jun 25 03:12:17 xterm was updated Jun 25 03:12:22 some AGPS stuff Jun 25 03:12:28 General improvements Jun 25 03:12:36 is the AGPS standard? or is it still the beta thing? Jun 25 03:12:36 Virtual input methods are less buggy Jun 25 03:12:54 summatusmentis, it's still in beta, I believe, but I don't have an N810 to confirm with. Jun 25 03:13:01 mm Jun 25 03:13:15 sweet @ the virtual input methods Jun 25 03:13:17 I'll flash either tonight or tomorrow Jun 25 03:13:22 other stuff...meh Jun 25 03:13:28 i'll still flash just because i'm addicted Jun 25 03:13:42 will flashing kill my current setup? is there a way to in-place upgrade? Jun 25 03:13:58 it's a point release, shouldn't be wildly improved Jun 25 03:16:35 Depends on how you use the device Jun 25 03:16:38 xterm is a LOT better Jun 25 03:16:46 dmsuperman, SSU is for future updates, not this one. Jun 25 03:16:55 backup/restore should catch most things Jun 25 03:19:00 better how GeneralAntilles? Jun 25 03:20:06 any camra extras Jun 25 03:20:21 all around Jun 25 03:20:22 camera Jun 25 03:20:33 toolbar is better Jun 25 03:20:40 GeneralAntilles: I should just be able to use flasher-2.0 right? Jun 25 03:20:42 fkb works better Jun 25 03:20:47 Yeah, flasher-2.0 works fine. Jun 25 03:21:24 alright, cool Jun 25 03:21:41 flashing now Jun 25 03:22:22 oh crap, boot menu is gone again Jun 25 03:22:48 ill have to bring my computer out of storage to rflash Jun 25 03:24:05 summatusmentis, it needs to be updated anyway Jun 25 03:24:27 GeneralAntilles: I guess so, but still :-. Jun 25 03:24:29 :-/ Jun 25 03:28:13 all the extras are gone... sad! Jun 25 03:32:13 Just duplicate the Extras entry and make it for Chinook Jun 25 03:33:20 fair enough Jun 25 04:04:53 Unable to install ogg-support-lightmediascanner Jun 25 04:04:54 Application packages missing: flash-and-reboot (= 3) Jun 25 04:29:18 but will it blend? Jun 25 04:30:06 everything blends Jun 25 04:30:11 except Chuck Norris, apparently Jun 25 04:31:40 will Diablo blend ttls/pap into a yummy wifi smoothie? Jun 25 04:33:13 Blendtec uses Chuck Norris dental fillings to coat the blades of their blenders... Jun 25 04:33:52 just dont breath the black smoke Jun 25 04:34:17 Chuck Norris doesn't have dental fillings. he has perfect teeth Jun 25 04:37:45 Looks like I'm not the only person on the hunt for osso-ic to get rhapsody to work. Given that the package has been replaced (according to apt-get), any suggestions? Jun 25 04:39:32 It's something that needs to be fuxed Rhapsody side. Jun 25 04:39:39 s/fux/fix/ Jun 25 04:39:39 GAN800 meant: It's something that needs to be fixed Rhapsody side. Jun 25 04:40:01 GAN800: meaning we should just hang out and wait for a new package to be added to the nokia repos? Jun 25 04:40:22 osso-ic is the connectivity daemon, basically. Jun 25 04:40:43 So there's no downgrading that. Jun 25 04:40:50 GAN800: hmm, ok. Jun 25 04:40:55 Rhapsody needs to learn to package. Jun 25 04:41:13 Have you sent them an email or called? Jun 25 04:41:46 GAN800: last time I ping'd rhapsody on anything regarding this device, I went through a week or two of frustration just to get them to ack that the device existed. Jun 25 04:42:13 Can't blame Nokia for that. ;) Jun 25 04:42:34 GAN800: I was just curious because apt-get clearly knows which package replaced osso-ic, I was wondering if another replacement spec file would fix the problem. Jun 25 04:43:08 GAN800: oh, no blame to them (though at the time, they go into a finger pointing loop w/rhapsody) Jun 25 04:43:33 GAN800: but I was thinking, since it is their repository this is coming from and is in the default diablo menus... Jun 25 04:43:48 (BTW, diablo way cool for any nokia folks reading this) Jun 25 04:44:14 I didn't know if it made sense to file a bug in the tracker as a result. Jun 25 04:45:07 I don't know why somebody didn't say 'hey, we're updating, time to fix your package'. . . . Jun 25 04:45:31 There's no Rhapsody component. It's clearly not a Bugzilla issue. Jun 25 04:46:19 GAN800: good point, I buy that. I don't know how to raise a bug in Nokia proper to get them to get the rhapsody folks to... ya know. Jun 25 04:46:43 Yeah, I don't know either. ;) Jun 25 04:47:02 Best answer I've got is Rhapsody support. . . . Jun 25 04:47:38 GAN800: then we are doomed (probably until someone in Nokia US finds they can't use it) Jun 25 04:55:26 re Jun 25 04:56:04 does the actual maemo apps run on the new diablo or need to recompile ? Jun 25 04:58:52 yey, new os Jun 25 04:59:38 yep Jun 25 05:00:01 doesn't know if actual apps need to recompile to work... Jun 25 05:05:38 no need to recompile Jun 25 05:09:14 great thanks Jun 25 05:17:24 any python hackers still awake? what's the syntax for setting a text field non-autocap or numeric only? Jun 25 05:26:22 seems there is already the dual boot procedure for diablo :) Jun 25 05:27:37 Not all that much changed. Jun 25 05:28:19 hum Jun 25 05:28:29 its a good or a bad thing ? ;-) Jun 25 05:48:54 hi Jun 25 05:51:08 I can't seem to find instructions for flashing the Diablo image onto my N810 Jun 25 05:51:15 could anyone point me to the right direction? Jun 25 05:51:39 i've used the old ones Jun 25 05:51:45 http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/2008/01/nokia-n800-how-to-update-n800s-firmware.html Jun 25 05:51:48 (n800) Jun 25 05:58:00 Woot, nokia now include the kernel as part of the diablo sdk download so no need for dodgy symlinks to compile kernel modules in scratchbox ;) Jun 25 05:58:59 Still no diablo bootstrap for sb2 though =( Jun 25 05:59:11 so now 'apt-get dist-upgrade' is possible ? Jun 25 05:59:15 Meh, what about sb2 :P Jun 25 06:00:38 RST38h, Actually, cant you use the one here: http://repository.maemo.org/stable/4.0/armel/ ? Jun 25 06:00:58 The same kinda folder structure is mentioned here: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/sbox2/Maemo Jun 25 06:05:14 "[sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~] >" Jun 25 06:07:46 Finally. I don't have to resort to hacking to get a panels control panel in scratchbox anymore. Jun 25 06:08:33 qwerty: I am not sure if I can use it Jun 25 06:08:57 qwerty: 'cause sb2 has a special script to install rootstraps and it expects them at some predefined location Jun 25 06:10:53 Hmm, probably. But http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/sbox2/Maemo has a section on setting it up manually and they use the rootstrap from the chinook folder. To me, it seems like replacing that wget line with diablo and 4.1 should work too. Jun 25 06:11:21 it does not - there is no diablo rootstrap there Jun 25 06:11:27 not yet at least :) Jun 25 06:14:16 the script of penguinbait isn't available for download ? (this one i mean: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20534) Jun 25 06:16:54 that is propably the most ugly forum message ive seen in ages Jun 25 06:18:45 ~lart matchbox-window-manager for being a POS which can't handle windows properly Jun 25 06:18:45 * infobot pries matchbox-window-manager's back open with a screwdriver and flashes a new bootldr to matchbox-window-manager for being a POS which can't handle windows properly Jun 25 06:18:50 I'm gonna stick to chinook SDK Jun 25 06:18:51 ~lart nokia for using it Jun 25 06:18:52 * infobot shoots nokia in his sleep for using it Jun 25 06:19:30 qwerty12, just switch to KDE and STFU. :P Jun 25 06:19:31 Just as I've stuck to mistral and bora "3.0" Jun 25 06:19:59 GeneralAntilles, No. So I put KDE down a dependency for conky? Jun 25 06:20:16 lart kde for being ugly piece-of-s*it Jun 25 06:20:43 theres nothing wrong with kde Jun 25 06:20:54 but is it reponsive on tablet? Jun 25 06:20:57 Woot, you can have my 1.4MB deb, just make sure you make a 2 GB partition for KDE too! Jun 25 06:21:33 GeneralAntilles: is it? :P (fast, the KDE) Jun 25 06:21:44 I dunno why, but I don't like how KDE looks at all -- maybe you could theme it pertty, but never seen one Jun 25 06:22:09 My view still stands, matchbox handles windows shit. Jun 25 06:22:26 im more accused to gnome to be honest, but ive used kde with no bad memories :) Jun 25 06:22:36 and i dont know about theming at all Jun 25 06:22:56 now ive run debian etch default theme since it was released :P Jun 25 06:23:59 my tablet's theme is default too, but my Vista computers background image was replaced to a debian one :) Jun 25 06:24:06 I don't use KDE Jun 25 06:24:34 Meh, qwerty12, learn to work with it, not against it. ;) Jun 25 06:24:47 ok. i still have some thoughts about the optimization Jun 25 06:26:27 GeneralAntilles, It's impossible though :(. I have this conky config that makes it run in an own window but undecorates it so it looks like it is running on the desktop. In matchbox,even with that config, matchbox insists on a new window. I won't deny that nokia did give us applets for putting stuff on the desktop but I wish matchbox didn't suck. Jun 25 06:27:22 Matchbox has its way of working Jun 25 06:27:31 just because you're trying to break that doesn't make it "suck" Jun 25 06:27:35 Why not make it an applet? Jun 25 06:28:28 qwerty: I gave you a blank applet app a while ago Jun 25 06:28:36 qwerty: Just attach Conky to that apple Jun 25 06:28:41 t Jun 25 06:29:01 Running it in its own X window is not right anyway Jun 25 06:29:20 RST38h, Yes, I should look at that again. Jun 25 06:30:11 Ah well, there is a good thing about Nokia using QT later on, probably means matchbox will have to piss off. Jun 25 06:31:07 Where do you get that from? Jun 25 06:31:12 Nokia wont be using Qt Jun 25 06:31:16 They'll just be bundling it. Jun 25 06:31:34 Damn, I thought I read that the interface would be replaced with qt. Jun 25 06:31:39 Now I'm upset. Jun 25 06:31:41 :\ Jun 25 06:31:42 I am not sure QT is going to help much Jun 25 06:32:02 I mean, it is a much cleaner API than GTK, but it will not help in this particular case Jun 25 06:32:43 With Conky, you basically have a plain XLib app that wants an XWindow. So you somehow pull XWindow handle from that GTK applet app and give it to Conky Jun 25 06:33:06 With Fremantle, apparently, being Xorg Jun 25 06:33:11 who knows what'll happen. Jun 25 06:33:20 But Qt isn't one of those things, anyway. Jun 25 06:34:27 RST38h, how is Qt apI much cleaner? Jun 25 06:35:37 inz: Uses classes, everything neatly compartmentalized and type-checked Jun 25 06:35:58 RST38h, so you're comparing Qt C++ API and Gtk+ C API? Jun 25 06:38:16 I am comparing two UI APIs Jun 25 06:39:37 Sure the C API is the native for Gtk+, but there are bindings for almost everything Jun 25 06:40:27 Gtk+ uses classes the way it can, as C doesn't have them. Jun 25 06:40:47 And C is much nicer language to choose, as you can quite easily then generate the bindings Jun 25 06:42:28 inz: this is basically your subjective opinion Jun 25 06:42:58 RST, sure it is subjective, are you saying you're objective? Jun 25 06:43:44 * RST38h will abstain from making an argument for or against C++ as a language (has its pros and cons), but having UI API broken into classes with strict type checking definitely makes it easier to use Jun 25 06:44:40 I'm not fighting agains C++, I'm just against comparing the APIs in totally different and incomparable languages Jun 25 06:46:01 Whether you want it or not GTK+ and QT are two competing APIs Jun 25 06:46:23 C/C++ are not competing languages though as they can be used interchangeably Jun 25 06:55:42 Ooh, Qt C bindings do exist Jun 25 06:56:25 as well as GTK+ C++ bindings Jun 25 06:56:42 Neither is widely used though Jun 25 06:57:17 yey Jun 25 06:57:21 mail client crash Jun 25 06:57:22 Also, GTK+ folks had to come up with *their own* C++ish language (Vala) just to achieve features QT has by default Jun 25 06:57:41 doc: Modest? It crashes. Jun 25 06:57:54 just did for me Jun 25 06:58:57 and it's only connecting to one imap account for some reason Jun 25 06:59:02 * doc|home gives thumbs down Jun 25 07:00:19 it's screwed up, albeit not as much as the previous client Jun 25 07:00:37 one-account-at-a-time thing seems to be a feature, not a bug Jun 25 07:00:43 at least the previous client would connect to two servers at the same time Jun 25 07:00:47 it's a sucky feature Jun 25 07:00:51 * doc|home ponders claws Jun 25 07:01:33 And you can't set font size and name Jun 25 07:02:01 X-Fade: Is there somebody responsible for maintaining Modest at Nokia? Jun 25 07:04:15 RST, well, Qt also kind of invented their own language, thus the need for moc Jun 25 07:05:13 MOC isn't really a language... Jun 25 07:05:48 Just a bunch of custom macros, like they have in MFC, GEOS, etc Jun 25 07:06:02 "Unable to send" is not a useful error message Jun 25 07:06:07 * doc|home stabs Jun 25 07:06:47 especially when it sends! 3 times! Jun 25 07:06:51 * doc|home stabs some more Jun 25 07:07:19 doc: In short, it is still unusable for mail =) Jun 25 07:07:34 RST38h, try bugzilla? Jun 25 07:07:53 RST38h: dunno, stil lsetting up accounts, need more time to be really sure Jun 25 07:08:03 it decided to ignore my backed up account info :/ Jun 25 07:08:25 RST, it isn't really a language, but then again, it isn't really C++ Jun 25 07:08:37 RST38h, djcb or pvanhoof are in here every so often. Jun 25 07:08:50 RST, well, I guess you can do manually what MOC does, so that it is actually C++ Jun 25 07:11:02 GAN: Yes, I have seen pvanhoof here, but he has written on his blog that he is leaving Modest for better pastures for now Jun 25 07:11:17 inz: It is still C++, really Jun 25 07:11:46 In any case, C++ as a language is not a problem here. GCC will happily compile both C and C++ and even link 'em Jun 25 07:13:00 GAN: I would try bugzilla but the fact that the release version of the client does not show more than one remote account at once and does not even memorize zoom level in the email view is somehow discouraging Jun 25 07:13:25 RST38h, if you have a "section" signals: in class definition, it doesn't really sound like C++ Jun 25 07:13:43 RST38h, which GCC might not bee too happy about Jun 25 07:13:45 -e Jun 25 07:14:16 eh, if nobody complains, nothing'll change. Jun 25 07:14:30 inz: it's just preprocessor Jun 25 07:14:56 inz: You can have all kinds of crap in there, as long as CPP or some other preprocessor tool converts it to valid C++ Jun 25 07:15:10 GAN: I know, but it is still discouraging Jun 25 07:15:54 That's why we have ssu. ;) Jun 25 07:17:06 Are bugzilla accounts different from maemo garage? It does not let me in Jun 25 07:17:47 yes they are Jun 25 07:17:52 Why? Jun 25 07:18:39 Because single-sign-on hasn't beeb set up yet. Jun 25 07:18:47 umgh Jun 25 07:18:49 s/beeb/been/ Jun 25 07:18:49 GAN800 meant: Because single-sign-on hasn't been set up yet. Jun 25 07:19:02 it takes all of ten seconds Jun 25 07:19:31 You probably know yourself that these 10 seconds cost 75% visitors? Jun 25 07:20:21 We don't want people who aren't willing to put ten seconds into reigstering submitting bug reports. :P Jun 25 07:20:38 Mmm...dunno Jun 25 07:20:50 and spam Jun 25 07:21:05 We don't need spam reports using up bug numbers. :/ Jun 25 07:21:46 RST, well, valac can be used as a "preprocessor" for C Jun 25 07:21:50 RST, does that make it C? Jun 25 07:22:05 Look at all the fun allowing anonymous edits is causing on the wiki. Jun 25 07:23:09 GAN800: ? how do you mean? Jun 25 07:23:27 Spam everywhere Jun 25 07:23:37 hah :) Jun 25 07:24:10 The temp bans I've been putting in place keep expiring, we get a half-dozen spam pages in a couple hours and I put the ban back. Jun 25 07:24:20 hey is anyone on an n800 running diablo in here? Jun 25 07:24:29 yes Jun 25 07:24:31 we needs a conclusion on the issue. Jun 25 07:24:37 does the cam flip work? Jun 25 07:24:49 my cam app doesn't flip or start when I pop the camera out Jun 25 07:24:58 even though the option for that is selected Jun 25 07:25:08 when I have chinook kernel running, it works Jun 25 07:25:10 inz: But valac is not a preprocessor, it does not only do text substitution Jun 25 07:25:17 Does it work under Chinook? Jun 25 07:25:20 yes Jun 25 07:25:21 It generates a C program for you, fromscratch Jun 25 07:25:36 yes Jun 25 07:25:54 Is it just me, or does backspace not work using the GNU screen in the tablet repos? Jun 25 07:25:55 lbt: does yours work in diablo? Jun 25 07:26:03 @EruditeHerm, flip works here Jun 25 07:26:11 EruditeHermit: it does Jun 25 07:27:06 GAN800: I posted my opinion on anon edits on the ml - there's no benefit; the best captcha for us is for people to register. Jun 25 07:27:32 I agree. ;) Jun 25 07:29:40 GAN: 3 bugs filed Jun 25 07:29:59 * RST38h is also against anonymous wiki edits Jun 25 07:30:15 RST, moc can also create an source file from your header file, this is not text substitution either Jun 25 07:30:43 does anyone know why this could be? Jun 25 07:30:50 Whatever Great Wiki Founders (GWFs) thought about human beings, they were wrong Jun 25 07:31:04 maemo is too small for anonymous edits Jun 25 07:31:19 inz: this is not really a necessary feature Jun 25 07:31:24 ping Jun 25 07:31:31 inz: You can live without it same as you can live without MFC wizard Jun 25 07:31:32 can anyone talk to me about http://tracker-project.org/ ? Jun 25 07:31:42 http://www.gnome.org/projects/tracker/ lists that host in its title Jun 25 07:31:46 inz: For Vala, C code generation is the main function Jun 25 07:31:48 but it doesn't seem to exist Jun 25 07:32:21 inz: Basically, if you are trying to prove that Vala == MOC, you might want to stop now Jun 25 07:32:33 timeless: iirc just like .mac Jun 25 07:32:43 the idea, i mean Jun 25 07:32:58 GAN: I do not believe any of these bugs will be addressed any time soon, but anyway... Jun 25 07:33:07 macoute: i was more interested in why the dns entry didn't yield a web server Jun 25 07:33:07 No, that's not what I want to prove, I just want to say that Qt also "invented their own language" to make things simpler for developers Jun 25 07:33:18 inz: MOC is not a language Jun 25 07:33:28 It is a bunch of cusotm macros that make life a bit easier Jun 25 07:33:28 RST, but the source isn't C++ either Jun 25 07:33:33 macoute, which of the magnifier or blue thing is the logo in http://www.gnome.org/projects/tracker/images/meta_tracker_logo.png Jun 25 07:33:35 Vala *is* a language Jun 25 07:34:03 inz: Well, then neither is C++Builder, nor MFC code, nor Motif code (if you use their preprocessor) Jun 25 07:34:06 timeless: hard to say :P i think its the whole package Jun 25 07:34:15 RST, sure Jun 25 07:34:20 timeless: as a icon, id prefer that magnifier Jun 25 07:34:29 inz: The difference is that all of these *are* C++ programs + some macros Jun 25 07:34:30 timeless: you making a port? Jun 25 07:35:07 no Jun 25 07:35:09 http://www.ohloh.net/projects/4040 Jun 25 07:35:15 inz: Vala is not C++ by any measure. Rather, it is something created by anti-C++ fanatics who reached a deadend with C but could not make themselves use C++ :) Jun 25 07:35:16 RST, although I could argue moc does more than text substitution Jun 25 07:35:35 * timeless sighs Jun 25 07:35:37 http://www.ohloh.net/projects/4041/edit Jun 25 07:35:45 people should be required to use FF2 or FF3 Jun 25 07:35:47 inz: Well, you already said it could generate empty .cpp files from headers Jun 25 07:36:02 RST, and it requires certain inheritance orders Jun 25 07:36:07 dear whomever. spelling counts Jun 25 07:36:26 inz: well, this does not make it unC++ :) Jun 25 07:36:38 RST, no, but it makes it more than a preprocessor Jun 25 07:36:55 RST, well, more than a dummy preprocessor at least Jun 25 07:37:15 If they wanted a dummy preprocessor they would use CPP Jun 25 07:37:33 Which they do, after their own a-bit-less-dummy preprocessor ;) Jun 25 07:37:48 it sounds more like a compiler that targets c++ Jun 25 07:37:50 RST38h, don't set your own milestones. :P Jun 25 07:38:00 macoute: how do i mailto: Raphael Slinckx Jun 25 07:38:04 in the same way java targets it's intermediate code Jun 25 07:38:08 inz: Still it is pretty amusing to read Vala release announcements and see how hard authors are trying to avoid mentioning C++ Jun 25 07:38:23 ah nm Jun 25 07:38:42 RST, surely vala has features C++ doesn't Jun 25 07:38:48 inz: They are even comparing Vala with C# =) Jun 25 07:38:55 RST, (mind you, I've never used vala) Jun 25 07:38:56 I like the 3rd pic google provides for a search on 'vala' Jun 25 07:38:59 nm, they use bugzilla Jun 25 07:39:01 inz: I am pretty sure opposite is also true :) Jun 25 07:39:23 timeless: heh :) Jun 25 07:39:37 raphael.slinckx@deskbar.net :) Jun 25 07:39:38 valac, the Vala compiler, is a self-hosting compiler that translates Vala source code into C source and header files. Jun 25 07:39:42 RST, agreed, whether this is good or bad, I won't say anything Jun 25 07:39:55 GAN: Well, I wasn't sure about that field. Maybe there should be a separate bug submission UIs for dummies like myself =) Jun 25 07:40:11 which explains why they don't mention C++ I guess ;) Jun 25 07:40:14 The guided submission form should be put in place at some point. :\ Jun 25 07:40:27 inz: But the initial (2-hours old) point is that having classes in UI API *helps* :) Jun 25 07:40:59 lbt: Naah, they mention C# (which also has fewer things in common with Vala) but omit C++ Jun 25 07:41:04 RST, and that is something that Gtk+ does have, but in a language that has no native classes Jun 25 07:41:29 inz: I.e. it has "classes" but you can't take advantage of this fact Jun 25 07:41:43 RST, sure you can, it just takes quite a bit of work Jun 25 07:41:46 inz: No type checking, no name scopes Jun 25 07:41:59 RST, how so no type checking? Jun 25 07:42:13 RST, why do you think the GTK_IS_blabla() -macros are for? Jun 25 07:42:14 inz: Yea, you can obviously make use of an engine-less BMW, it just takes a bit of work =) Jun 25 07:42:49 RST, thus the bindings for oo languages (and the invention of their own) Jun 25 07:42:50 inz: you mean I am supposed to check all types MYSELF using macros? :)))) Jun 25 07:43:08 inz: Well, in QT you already have all this stuff Jun 25 07:43:20 RST, because the API is in C++ Jun 25 07:43:28 inz: Very good observation :) Jun 25 07:43:38 And we've got nowhere Jun 25 07:44:01 No, you basically admitted that having a C++ API helps things, didn't you? Jun 25 07:44:09 Isn't it progress? Jun 25 07:44:12 I didn't want to make any points for or against anything, but only comparing C and C++ APIs Jun 25 07:44:39 I know the difference of C and C++, and know that an OO language has it's benefits in UI programming Jun 25 07:44:51 This observation is kinda obvious though, we did not need 2 hours :) Jun 25 07:45:20 [the obvious minus of C++ is that you have to recompile stuf when your public API changes] Jun 25 07:45:41 And that your compiler takes 1 GB of ram instead of <100 MB Jun 25 07:45:54 Really? My compiler (GCC) does not Jun 25 07:46:10 Well, that was while I was compiling cmake Jun 25 07:46:18 Neither does Watcom Jun 25 07:46:35 inz: Then something in cmake makes compiler take that much RAM Jun 25 07:46:50 I *can* write a C program that will do the same to compiler btw Jun 25 07:47:08 timeless, you there? Jun 25 07:47:16 Sure you can, but then you're doing something you're not supposed to Jun 25 07:47:22 yes Jun 25 07:47:35 inz: No. It will be absolutely valid and even useful C code Jun 25 07:47:47 can someone tell me what icon empathy uses? http://live.gnome.org/Empathy Jun 25 07:48:17 timeless, GeneralAntilles wants to know if you'll guys will permit community-supported microb-svn builds on -devel Jun 25 07:48:39 i don't think we should have any reason to object Jun 25 07:48:51 but doesn't that not work because of app manager? :) Jun 25 07:49:19 It'd probably break a lot of crap Jun 25 07:49:27 I'm against it myself Jun 25 07:49:53 navi: offhand, i'd probably prefer a private repo Jun 25 07:49:57 w/ testing for a month Jun 25 07:50:02 show me evidence of a dozen users happily using it Jun 25 07:50:07 and then we can consider -devel Jun 25 07:50:23 however, if you get 2 unhappy or remotely borked users. trash the idea Jun 25 07:50:27 and destroy the repo Jun 25 07:51:05 heh Jun 25 07:54:35 what is the version 4.1? SDK is only for developer? Jun 25 07:54:48 or is this a real maemo update für table users? Jun 25 07:54:56 both Jun 25 07:55:02 an OS update for uses Jun 25 07:55:03 users Jun 25 07:55:09 and an SDK update for developers Jun 25 07:57:28 okay Jun 25 07:57:42 this is the last update with neccessary re-flashing? Jun 25 07:58:08 wow, how fast nokia did, whats common on all other linux distributions ;) Jun 25 07:58:08 presumably Jun 25 07:58:26 apt-get install os2009 :P Jun 25 07:58:41 Meh, show me another mobile device that works like that. :P Jun 25 07:58:53 * aquatix can't think of any Jun 25 07:59:00 Morning, all Jun 25 07:59:01 aquatix, maemo-5 Jun 25 07:59:08 hey Jaffa Jun 25 07:59:12 Hi, Jaffa Jun 25 07:59:14 GAN800: yeah Jun 25 07:59:21 its a completely different paradigm to dist-upgrade on a PC Jun 25 08:00:07 hmmm... well i guess the paradigm is the same, different low level issues :) Jun 25 08:00:55 GAN800, anything based on angstrom :P Jun 25 08:02:26 johnx: how many commercial companies have released anything based off angstrom which aren't new start-ups? Jun 25 08:02:35 johnx: still depends on the machine... may have to flash kernel seperately etc Jun 25 08:02:49 trickie|work, that's fair enough Jun 25 08:03:13 Jaffa: one of the latest garmin PND's is based on Poky IIRC Jun 25 08:03:19 which is another OE distro Jun 25 08:05:20 http://butterfeet.org/?p=57 Jun 25 08:06:12 not entirely sure if it is OE built so to speak, or just using some components/software from Poky/OH Jun 25 08:06:46 * lcuk laughs at person wanting to save sketches as .txt Jun 25 08:08:38 lcuk: it *is* sort of possible ;) Jun 25 08:08:39 lcuk: you can create quite nice ascii art even from vector based sketches ;) Jun 25 08:08:49 * aquatix remembers Gimp's export to .xml feature Jun 25 08:08:52 or html Jun 25 08:10:36 its sort of possible but not practical, least not until i put in hwr Jun 25 08:11:21 lcuk: Save 'em in SVG with .txt extension! Jun 25 08:11:32 And let him read THAT Jun 25 08:12:13 svg would/should work in the long run without too much hassle, i just cant be arsed learning the syntax yet :) Jun 25 08:12:24 anywayn, back laterish Jun 25 08:12:35 I lost my GPS Jun 25 08:12:56 It is somewhere in my room. It is on, because Maemo Mapper just connected to it Jun 25 08:13:08 heh Jun 25 08:13:12 lcuk: http://www.torchsoft.com/images/aas_screenshot4.gif http://www.torchsoft.com/images/aas_screenshot5.gif :) Jun 25 08:14:56 jott :) your knowledge of obscure formats awes me ;) thanks for making sense out of randomness Jun 25 08:15:09 Yay found it Jun 25 08:15:17 Was in the pocket of a shirt I'd hung away Jun 25 08:18:44 Greetings everyone! Jun 25 08:18:58 Just stopping by here from one quick question. Jun 25 08:18:59 * jott wonders how many blog posts about nokia&symbian on his various planet subscriptions he still has to mark as read ;) Jun 25 08:20:01 Is there a Terminal or Telnet client thingie that can run in full screen mode and allows you to disable the scroll bar? Jun 25 08:20:16 how many have been worth reading? Jun 25 08:20:50 timeless: "mark as read" != read ;).. not many though. Jun 25 08:21:05 I know that Qwerty's Putty release allows you to disable the scroll bar, but I can't seem to find a way to get it into full screen mode. Jun 25 08:21:05 Addison: osso-xterm can do this Jun 25 08:21:52 Which version is that jott? I just have the standard one that comes with OS 2008, the one just before Diablo. Jun 25 08:22:02 Any chance you could point to me the download? Jun 25 08:22:42 Addison: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=osso-xterm+&btnG=Search Jun 25 08:22:59 Is it this one? Jun 25 08:23:00 Addison: it's preinstalled, but i made some updated packages if you are on chinook http://sse2.net/xterm .. haven't yet looked at diablos version of it Jun 25 08:23:00 http://pupnik.de/xterm.html Jun 25 08:23:27 http://omag.es/blog/2008/05/07/truly-fullscreen-osso-xterm/ there seems to be a blog post that explains on how to get it to true fs Jun 25 08:24:03 Thanks jott! Wow, you're a real coder too! It was a pleasure. :) Jun 25 08:24:39 Well, that's all I needed. Have a good one guys! Jun 25 08:29:52 Sup guys Jun 25 08:33:58 Anyone flash the new firmware yet? Jun 25 08:38:36 cy3o3: yep Jun 25 08:39:56 over the air updates will be nice Jun 25 08:40:08 any trouble with it? Jun 25 08:40:52 No, nor have I had any real problems with the "unofficial" beta Jun 25 08:41:07 rockin' Jun 25 08:56:34 seems like the diablo release got overshadowed by a new mid release of ubuntu... Jun 25 09:03:31 t_s_o: ubuntu has a new release? :) Jun 25 09:04:01 of the kind specifically made for mid/umpc, yes... Jun 25 09:04:14 oh Jun 25 09:04:19 that one Jun 25 09:04:23 * aquatix shrugs Jun 25 09:05:40 * aquatix hopes openssh gets updated soon for diablo Jun 25 09:05:53 my NIT is a tad less useful at the moment Jun 25 09:06:38 hrm, kinda funny, we really should push openssh, since it's part of the dev buidls Jun 25 09:08:53 btw, the diablo modest works better with my imap server Jun 25 09:09:06 it now marks mails `read' Jun 25 09:09:08 * aquatix happy Jun 25 09:10:06 now, if openssh and omweather update, i'm settled Jun 25 09:11:29 ah, and ogg support Jun 25 09:31:32 err, i could have sworn that i have openssh working here... Jun 25 09:32:26 t_s_o: well, at least the install links don't work here Jun 25 09:33:05 i think i got it pulled in automatically at restore... could be because i happened to have a maemo extras entry pointing at chinook my accident :P Jun 25 09:33:23 yeah, i didn't restore much Jun 25 09:33:32 only contacts and bookmarks Jun 25 09:33:54 tried altering maemo extras to point to both chinook and diablo? Jun 25 09:34:34 not yet Jun 25 09:34:51 can try Jun 25 09:34:58 with gprs it might take a while though Jun 25 09:35:44 ouch Jun 25 09:36:41 erm Jun 25 09:37:50 maemo maemo extras only lists free and non-free Jun 25 09:38:10 inz: ping Jun 25 09:39:12 bingo, the empty line above defaults to diablo as long as it has no content. if you enter "chinook diablo" (no quotes) into it, things should probably work Jun 25 09:39:47 another option is to create a new repo, similar to the one your looking at right now, but enter chinook in that line... Jun 25 09:40:28 t_s_o: ah Jun 25 09:40:33 i'll update in an hour Jun 25 09:40:36 lunch now :) Jun 25 09:42:12 timeless, pong Jun 25 09:42:17 see email Jun 25 09:42:20 i hope :) Jun 25 09:42:58 dneary: how's the map of the world doing? Jun 25 09:43:15 timeless, damn gmail spam filter Jun 25 09:43:30 Howdy Jun 25 09:43:40 timeless: It's gone through Quim, made a decent first draft Jun 25 09:43:51 timeless: I'll forward it on to you if you'd like Jun 25 09:43:56 please Jun 25 09:44:10 Next step is to go person-by-person and make sure they don't mind being listed in the wiki Jun 25 09:44:31 on average, i tend to object Jun 25 09:44:38 people try to list my real name w/ my username Jun 25 09:44:43 and i consider that a show stopper :) Jun 25 09:44:52 And to list all the companies & contractors Nokia works with publicly, and make sure *they* don't mind being on the list Jun 25 09:45:02 interesting Jun 25 09:45:03 Then sollicit individual community members to sign up Jun 25 09:45:22 last i checked, the primary blocker there was nokia itself refusing to let contractors acknowledge relations Jun 25 09:45:30 it'd be great if that went away Jun 25 09:45:41 we have some really messy bits in most teams because of that Jun 25 09:46:13 darn, i have a meeting, and i haven't prepped Jun 25 09:51:22 Heh, TheRegister found a real reason behind Symbian buyout Jun 25 09:51:38 Not that difficult, apparently Jun 25 09:52:07 a link? Jun 25 09:52:28 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/25/bill_ray_symbian_nokia/ Jun 25 09:52:43 8 years of royalty payments Jun 25 09:53:06 So, it looks like S40 has gotta go, being replaced with S60 Jun 25 09:53:46 well, if that was the only reason, why opensource it? :) Jun 25 09:55:53 Well they are not open sourcing it YET Jun 25 09:56:01 So we do not know what conditions are going to be Jun 25 10:32:36 yoyo Jun 25 10:32:38 back Jun 25 10:35:11 GeneralAntilles: erm... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19 Jun 25 10:36:16 is that good? Jun 25 10:36:18 <_< Jun 25 10:36:45 bleh doubt it helps me any Jun 25 10:36:59 rm_you: A while ago, you have been willing to host Maemo package Aggregator? Jun 25 10:37:06 RST38h: surte Jun 25 10:37:08 *sure Jun 25 10:37:12 rm_you, :) did you get to have a peek Jun 25 10:37:14 Still willing? =) Jun 25 10:37:20 lcuk: not yet, just got back. Jun 25 10:37:22 RST38h: sure Jun 25 10:37:29 I hosted one for a while Jun 25 10:37:36 just got my projector... watched the new Futurama movie, and Pulp Fiction :P Jun 25 10:37:37 rm_you: give me your email I will send you the code Jun 25 10:37:43 RST38h: k Jun 25 10:38:03 RST, what does your aggregator do? Jun 25 10:38:10 lcuk: can you link me again? Jun 25 10:38:17 *lcuk_wrk Jun 25 10:38:37 ok, liqbase playtest here http://liquid.googlepages.com/lcuk Jun 25 10:38:46 back later :) Jun 25 10:38:53 kk Jun 25 10:39:02 inz:it aggregates! Jun 25 10:39:24 RST, ooh, couldn't have guessed Jun 25 10:39:36 k got it Jun 25 10:39:44 rm_you: Sent. Please, let me know when you set it up and also if you have got any problems Jun 25 10:40:15 inz: our sql server is down now so I can't demonstrate. We will have to wait for rm_you to set it up Jun 25 10:40:39 RST38h: ok... the SQL stuff is all there?w Jun 25 10:40:50 i will have to modify it a little prolly, but i'll get it up ASAP Jun 25 10:41:13 rm_you: yep Jun 25 10:41:22 Do CreateDB.sql to create database Jun 25 10:41:27 what you want the url to be? Jun 25 10:41:28 Crawler.pl will crawl repos Jun 25 10:41:40 rm_you: Whatever you feel to be good Jun 25 10:41:51 Something/PackRat/ should probably do Jun 25 10:41:53 k Jun 25 10:42:02 lcuk_wrk: hrm Jun 25 10:42:07 I won't be able to maintain it at komkon, so it is up to you now Jun 25 10:42:46 My script tried to extract changelog entries from the packages too Jun 25 10:42:52 Unfortunately quite few actually had them Jun 25 10:43:18 inz: I have the same problem for the downloads catalog. I wanted to use changelog info there too. Jun 25 10:43:54 X-Fade, my implementation did actually work somewhat, not too well though Jun 25 10:43:57 I have changelog info >_> Jun 25 10:44:31 morning Jun 25 10:44:34 inz: And then you have proper debian package swith changelog entries for a package respin. Jun 25 10:44:43 inz: And you need to filter them out. Jun 25 10:45:30 I wonder how long would my script run now... Jun 25 10:45:47 After all, it downloads every new package in every repo it finds... Jun 25 10:45:58 you do not need to do it Jun 25 10:46:05 it is sufficient to load metadata from the repos Jun 25 10:46:14 * aquatix does an repository update with maemo extra's chinook enabled Jun 25 10:46:14 RST, not it isn't, if you want changelog Jun 25 10:46:17 over gprs Jun 25 10:46:39 but changelogs are not that important really - people seldom write useful stuff there Jun 25 10:47:00 RST, yeah, realized that, but were they properly used, they'd be great Jun 25 10:47:35 like in debian and ubuntu Jun 25 10:47:52 just installed diablo anyone in to answer a few q's Jun 25 10:47:52 * aquatix even reads those Jun 25 10:48:24 * rm_you writes useful stuff in his changelogs Jun 25 10:48:34 rm, like "foo" and "bar"? Jun 25 10:48:58 ok ill shoot Jun 25 10:48:59 RST, does your script run on extras, some pre-defined list of repos or how? Jun 25 10:48:59 yay, downloading openssh [1.1MB] over gprs now Jun 25 10:49:01 xchat asks for libssl 0.9.7 Jun 25 10:49:21 but i understand diablo come 0.9.8 Jun 25 10:49:24 Doesn't it come with both? Jun 25 10:49:39 inz: it loads repo list from gronmayer Jun 25 10:49:49 has anyone successfully installed it? Jun 25 10:49:55 RST, ahh Jun 25 10:50:36 RST, mine used the old wiki page Jun 25 10:51:16 lcuk_wrk: nice :) Jun 25 10:52:26 any offers? Jun 25 10:53:39 lbt this is still without a huge set of changes - which are pending the db side of things :) its just technology demo still. i decided to let people see rather than spending a few more days/weeks setting those up Jun 25 10:56:26 RST38h: hrm... is there a way to get URLs in PERL natively without using wget? Jun 25 10:56:37 lcuk_wrk: well, it's running here... a couple of glitches; some n800 vs n810 things; I'm glad you took the first steps... Jun 25 10:57:35 ok so to sum up Jun 25 10:57:48 transmission and xchat are not working Jun 25 10:57:56 rm_you: I am afraid not Jun 25 10:57:57 everything else so far so good Jun 25 10:58:13 libwww-perl Jun 25 10:58:26 rm_you: Tried finding a decent way to do it but no luck Jun 25 10:58:26 anyone got the above apps working? Jun 25 10:59:21 and I see your sketches are each a fixed size... I thought there was an infinite, scrollable, piece of v-paper Jun 25 10:59:27 lbt - glitches? never.. Jun 25 10:59:44 which makes sense with our chat t'other night Jun 25 10:59:59 physics is a blue screen... Jun 25 11:00:08 lcuk_wrk: i sent you a crash report Jun 25 11:00:09 orrr Jun 25 11:00:12 none of which matters a damn - stars are cool!! Jun 25 11:00:13 wait, i am sending it now Jun 25 11:00:21 lcuk_wrk: on second run it appears to work nicely Jun 25 11:00:23 graffiti wall, the interaction between wall and editing and transitions etc requires me to think in database terms (or build a shedload of indexing/management) so will come later Jun 25 11:00:48 lbt, if you are running in performance things are MUCH quicker Jun 25 11:00:50 that's where I was talking 3d RPG stuff - Jun 25 11:01:09 RST38h: well, that could be a problem, as I don't have wget available on my host... Jun 25 11:01:09 what's the cmd line ? Jun 25 11:01:14 for performance Jun 25 11:01:26 RST38h: i am working on putting it on there, need to find a wget binary compiled with static libs Jun 25 11:01:40 well - what surprises me about this tablet is lack of original stuff designed for the spec of the machine :) Jun 25 11:01:48 lcuk_wrk: it crashes whenever I let the screen turn itself off (set to 1 minute on my tablet) Jun 25 11:02:02 lbt, just run it as root (or sudoers) and in the options you can upgrade cpu Jun 25 11:02:02 03:59:39 Unknown event 33, let me know what happened at Jun 25 11:02:46 rm_you: You do not have shell access? Jun 25 11:02:47 rm_you, yes, in the ITT thing i mention that, its paranoid and will be until i go round and have a full hildonization :) it also does similar if you lock screen or press home key Jun 25 11:03:01 RST38h: i do, but it is in a chroot jail, wget is outside Jun 25 11:03:09 lcuk_wrk: k Jun 25 11:03:13 i would rather bailout on unhandled events than carry on :) Jun 25 11:03:17 ignore my email then :) Jun 25 11:03:22 OK - yep... Jun 25 11:03:34 i do anyway rm, ive setup a special filter just for you Jun 25 11:03:34 RST38h: -jailshell: /usr/bin/wget: Permission denied Jun 25 11:03:38 lol Jun 25 11:03:54 if mail==whingey rm_you -> delete :P Jun 25 11:04:42 if (equals($sender, "rm_you") || contains($subject, "Open Source")) move($message, "Trash"); Jun 25 11:04:46 rm_you, regarding screen blanking, on mine when charging its set to always keep screen on so it never gets in my way - you will just have to play more Jun 25 11:05:21 lcuk_wrk: still interested in source for liqreader Jun 25 11:05:35 while I try to learn PERL so i can get rid of this wget Jun 25 11:05:38 hello world Jun 25 11:05:46 anyone here know of an icon for last.fm? Jun 25 11:05:49 hello timeless Jun 25 11:06:20 timeless: see last.fm? Jun 25 11:06:27 http://www.macupdate.com/images/icons/20130.png is audioscrobbler Jun 25 11:06:50 myeah Jun 25 11:06:58 rm_you: Can they allow you to use wget? Jun 25 11:07:00 but they use that logo on last.fm site too Jun 25 11:07:42 but i'm tempted to use http://www.ikony.w.inds.pl/images/ikony/Last_Fm_Dock_Icon_by_AlperEsin.jpg Jun 25 11:08:42 RST38h: NO Jun 25 11:08:44 err Jun 25 11:08:47 didnt mean to caps that Jun 25 11:08:56 anyway, what about LWP::Simple? Jun 25 11:09:02 http://www.devdaily.com/perl/edu/qanda/plqa00020.shtml Jun 25 11:09:13 well, try it Jun 25 11:09:19 I dont know PERL >_> at all Jun 25 11:09:21 i tried Jun 25 11:09:23 * RST38h remembers trying something like this but it did not work =( Jun 25 11:09:29 dunno if it did anything Jun 25 11:13:19 anyone here know PERL and want to help out with a hopefully quick modification? Jun 25 11:15:08 timeless, what are you collecting these icons for? Jun 25 11:15:08 lol Jun 25 11:15:17 ok, omweather from chinook doesn't work on diablo Jun 25 11:15:24 it crashes the gui Jun 25 11:15:34 [at least, clicking the settings button does] Jun 25 11:15:45 aquatix, yup, same behavior here Jun 25 11:15:52 * aquatix disables Jun 25 11:16:44 i can wait for a diablo version Jun 25 11:17:57 \o/ at least i have ssh again Jun 25 11:18:03 * aquatix happy Jun 25 11:21:26 RST38h: nm got it Jun 25 11:21:33 what was it? =) Jun 25 11:21:36 RST38h: i compiled a version of wget Jun 25 11:21:40 and scp'ed it over Jun 25 11:21:41 !!! Jun 25 11:21:46 hm Jun 25 11:21:53 does the chinook wget work? Jun 25 11:22:07 not on a PC server :) Jun 25 11:22:13 aquatix: this was to my hosting company's chrooted thingy Jun 25 11:22:15 heh Jun 25 11:22:17 ack, not need gzcat Jun 25 11:22:23 *now Jun 25 11:22:28 * aquatix is installing wget from chinook on his diablo n810 Jun 25 11:22:36 but as it depends on libc6 and such Jun 25 11:25:59 sh: Images/pidgin-sounds-old_2.3.1-0nix1.png: No such file or directory Jun 25 11:26:03 RST38h: is that normal? Jun 25 11:26:07 or is something failing Jun 25 11:26:39 i can hear the sound in glorious technicolor Jun 25 11:26:56 lol Jun 25 11:29:32 http://ageofikon.info/packrat/ Jun 25 11:29:37 RST38h: look to be working? Jun 25 11:30:28 anyone knows why meamo-extras don't list any packages yet for Diablo ? Jun 25 11:30:40 is that repo not yet ready for diablo ? Jun 25 11:30:52 kevinverma: pretty much Jun 25 11:31:13 rm_you, you mean not ready right ? Jun 25 11:32:56 rm_you: checking Jun 25 11:33:21 rm_you: You have to create a directory called Images Jun 25 11:33:29 rm_you: Otherwise it will not show app icons Jun 25 11:33:47 AH thats what those errors were Jun 25 11:34:30 And there is one more little bug, but fix the images first Jun 25 11:35:18 Actually, two bugs Jun 25 11:36:48 RST38h: what are the others? Jun 25 11:37:19 1. package name and package version should have NOWRAP attribute in the TD tag Jun 25 11:37:38 Apparently, FF3 now wraps when it encounters - character Jun 25 11:38:13 2. When asking to see dependencies list (click on Depends) nothing shows up. This is incorrect, it should query database for dependencies and show them Jun 25 11:39:00 depends is working for me Jun 25 11:39:06 checking again Jun 25 11:39:23 You have now moved arrow to the left, please move it back Jun 25 11:39:30 what is "uudecode -rm" supposed to do? Jun 25 11:39:39 decodes mime Jun 25 11:39:39 now images are failing because of that Jun 25 11:39:45 what is the -rm Jun 25 11:39:50 -rm decodes mime Jun 25 11:39:54 ah Jun 25 11:39:59 i thought JUST uudecode did that Jun 25 11:40:13 what version of uudecode were you using? Jun 25 11:40:13 no Jun 25 11:40:36 neither the version on my debian system nor the version on my host's system have any real commandline args Jun 25 11:40:44 default freebsd uudecode Jun 25 11:40:45 besides --help and --version, and --output Jun 25 11:40:48 hrm Jun 25 11:40:59 ignore app icons for now Jun 25 11:41:17 please, move the arrow icon back to the right and add NOWRAP to the version name Jun 25 11:41:19 trying to fix everything in the perl script first :/ Jun 25 11:42:32 NOWRAP is a tag in TD? Jun 25 11:42:40 Yes Jun 25 11:42:50 In relation to uudecode, use b64decode instead, with -rm Jun 25 11:43:00 Looks like in FreeBSD uudecode is an alias to b64decode Jun 25 11:43:35 NOWRAP in both name and version? Jun 25 11:43:37 or just name Jun 25 11:43:47 add it to both, won't harm Jun 25 11:44:10 k Jun 25 11:44:29 Ok, wrap has been fixed Jun 25 11:44:33 hrm dont have b64decode Jun 25 11:44:37 gotta compile it Jun 25 11:44:44 Now move the arrow back to the right Jun 25 11:45:01 Because at the left it is never going to be aligned and will be too close to the app icons Jun 25 11:49:12 ok, dependencies work Jun 25 11:49:20 why is uudecode necessary? Jun 25 11:51:18 'cause icons are base64-encoded Jun 25 11:51:32 grrr Jun 25 11:52:54 i cannot find a version of uudecode / b64decode Jun 25 11:53:36 can you possibly get the binary? Jun 25 11:53:40 and send it to me? >_> Jun 25 11:53:49 no idea if it would work or not... Jun 25 11:53:56 might get lucky :P Jun 25 11:54:50 I only have a freebsd binary Jun 25 11:54:54 a moment though Jun 25 11:56:15 rm_you: ok, found it Jun 25 11:56:26 move the arrows back and I will give you the link Jun 25 11:56:30 lol Jun 25 11:56:34 blackmail? :P Jun 25 11:56:41 kinda, yea...=) Jun 25 11:57:03 * RST38h does not want layout broken without good reasoning Jun 25 11:57:05 So I'm thinkin, maybe I don't need package images? :P Jun 25 11:57:12 RST38h: lol Jun 25 11:58:09 RST38h: remember what I was saying about usability? expanding areas (especially with arrows or plus signs) are ALWAYS from the left Jun 25 11:58:11 always Jun 25 11:58:35 If it really does break the layout with images / etc, I will figure out how to fix it Jun 25 11:58:36 rm_you: Well, first of all they are not always on the left in practice (see Maemo combo boxes) Jun 25 11:58:44 and if I really can't fix it, I will change it back. ok? :P Jun 25 11:58:52 rm_you: Having said that I agree that placing it on the right is not the best idea Jun 25 11:58:55 combo boxes are different Jun 25 11:59:31 rm_you: BUT placing it on the left breaks the layout, so it is even worse idea at the moment, so I suggest you just move it back until a better placement is found Jun 25 12:00:12 what browser does it break the layout in? Jun 25 12:00:20 There is a huge empty bar right at the middle, so with the right image we may be able to stick it there Jun 25 12:00:25 rm_you: FF3 Jun 25 12:00:37 And any other browser, because the problem is kinda fundamental Jun 25 12:00:55 I'm viewing it in iceweasel 3, looks fine here... Jun 25 12:00:58 1. As some packages have app icons and some do not, those arrows will never be aligned Jun 25 12:01:00 not sure what you're talking about Jun 25 12:01:06 ah Jun 25 12:01:09 that might be an issue Jun 25 12:01:12 unless i fix it :P Jun 25 12:01:13 2. Sticking that arrow next to the app icon makes use wonder what is going on Jun 25 12:01:29 guys, is it possible to have the swap file on the / (running from mmc)? Jun 25 12:01:37 Why is it pointing to the app icon? Or why is it pointing FROM the app icon? Jun 25 12:02:06 In short, it looks out of place at the left right now Jun 25 12:03:07 Hmm, none of my RSS feeds are updating post-upgrade and restore Jun 25 12:03:31 mine do Jun 25 12:03:53 rm_you: anyways, base64 is here: http://www.fourmilab.ch/webtools/base64/ Jun 25 12:12:52 RST38h: eh? Jun 25 12:12:59 the script now exits with error when empty search term wntered Jun 25 12:13:02 RST38h: that doesn't work for you? I don't see any breakage Jun 25 12:13:06 ah sec Jun 25 12:13:10 search for mplayer tho Jun 25 12:13:27 arrow is still misaligned and for some reason points to the app icon Jun 25 12:13:37 if there's an app icon Jun 25 12:13:40 what you mean, misaligned? Jun 25 12:13:53 not aligned with the text Jun 25 12:13:55 RST38h: i think the error you got was because of something I did, but fixed almost instantly Jun 25 12:14:00 ok, yes Jun 25 12:14:03 try empty search again Jun 25 12:14:10 I forgot a quote Jun 25 12:14:19 works now Jun 25 12:14:54 rm_you: Why do some entries have two icons to the left of them and some have only one? Jun 25 12:15:14 erk? which Jun 25 12:15:39 well, if you search for mplayer, mplayer has two icons and kmplayer has one Jun 25 12:15:45 err Jun 25 12:15:49 I don't see that Jun 25 12:16:07 I see mplayer has one icon, kmplayer doesnt have an icon at all Jun 25 12:16:11 well there is a brown icon with an arrow and there is blue-white mplayer icon with a nother little arrow Jun 25 12:16:24 brown icon? Jun 25 12:16:36 can you paste your exact URL so I can see? Jun 25 12:16:43 http://ageofikon.info/packrat/index.php?Action=list&System=OS2008&Arg=mplayer&Section=&Repo=0 Jun 25 12:16:59 can you post a screenshot somewhere? Jun 25 12:17:02 also, do a hard-refresh Jun 25 12:17:11 I see perfectly normal Jun 25 12:17:28 done, still there Jun 25 12:17:37 I am a bit busy to post a screenshot Jun 25 12:17:58 but there are definitely two icons to the left of some packages and only one for others Jun 25 12:18:00 left panel is closed sourced? Jun 25 12:18:21 so, mplayer has two icons?? Jun 25 12:18:46 wnd: hah, nice timing, just reported that internally Jun 25 12:18:57 rm_you: yes Jun 25 12:19:09 brown one with white arrow and white one with little black arrow Jun 25 12:19:11 or blue Jun 25 12:19:39 really could use a screenshot :/ the code looks clean in View Source mode Jun 25 12:19:50 shows no for kmplayer at all Jun 25 12:20:04 you're in FF3? Jun 25 12:20:56 Well I looked at the source and you definitely have two IMGs there: Jun 25 12:20:58 [X]  Jun 25 12:21:01 this is mplayer Jun 25 12:21:15 right Jun 25 12:21:17 that is correct Jun 25 12:21:20 [X]  Jun 25 12:21:23 this is kmplayer Jun 25 12:21:28 correct Jun 25 12:21:29 but this is two icons for mplayer Jun 25 12:21:34 ... Jun 25 12:21:36 Oooh, some nice new logos; e.g. http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_deadknight88_103.png Jun 25 12:21:40 one is the arrow, one is the image Jun 25 12:21:43 I see nothing wrong there Jun 25 12:21:48 rm_you: and the image has another arrow Jun 25 12:21:55 so you have got two arrows? why? Jun 25 12:21:56 ... Jun 25 12:21:58 no Jun 25 12:22:04 exactly one Jun 25 12:22:09 rm_you: I hope you are catching the drift by now ;) Jun 25 12:22:21 no, the page definitely has two arrows, look closer Jun 25 12:22:21 i thought you might be doing that Jun 25 12:22:31 bastage :P Jun 25 12:22:39 rm_you: This is as far as my argument #2 is concerned Jun 25 12:23:15 Leave the drop down arrow where it has been for now Jun 25 12:23:32 Until you come up with an idea how to avoid placing two icons together Jun 25 12:24:02 it looks fine with the two icons next to each other Jun 25 12:24:12 tho I am fixing the alignment as we speak Jun 25 12:25:31 nope, it does not look fine Jun 25 12:25:42 'cause icons perform completely different function Jun 25 12:25:54 jott: do you still have the terminus font package for OS 2008? Jun 25 12:34:55 someone know a way to sync cellphone<>maemo contacts? Jun 25 12:35:53 florian: ping Jun 25 12:36:38 hrw: pong Jun 25 12:36:52 florian: does your maemo sync also has evolution plugin? Jun 25 12:37:02 RST38h: eh? Jun 25 12:39:35 wait Jun 25 12:42:18 hrw: I'm not sure if the opensync module for it is built, but in theory the gui should cover all plugins. Jun 25 12:42:41 florian: just checked - it is not built :( Jun 25 12:43:24 hrw: It might be possible that it doesn't work with the modified evl stuff in maemo. Jun 25 12:43:47 hrw: We should ask Graham, maybe its just a matter of adding it. Jun 25 12:43:49 rm_you: Why is that arrow stuck between the app icon and the app name now? Jun 25 12:43:54 wait Jun 25 12:43:56 just wait Jun 25 12:43:58 i messed it up Jun 25 12:44:58 eh? Jun 25 12:45:06 florian: yep Jun 25 12:45:14 RST38h: well, what about that:?> Jun 25 12:45:21 rm_you: worse than before Jun 25 12:45:39 rm_you: app icon is a feature of the application, thus it was shown beside the app name Jun 25 12:46:00 rm_you: For a reason unknown to me you place some brown arrow BETWEEN application's icon and name Jun 25 12:46:29 rm_you: It all looks like fruitless ateempts to microwave an egg to me =) Jun 25 12:47:07 I agree it isn't yet optimal Jun 25 12:47:22 but it is still 100x better than the arrow over on the right Jun 25 12:47:30 still brainstorming Jun 25 12:47:31 rm_you: not really Jun 25 12:47:44 it is actually worse than having those arrows out of the way (albeit at the right) Jun 25 12:48:10 basically, the only way you can get those arrows at the left is if you remove app icons Jun 25 12:48:21 why? Jun 25 12:48:23 guys: left panel is closed source? Jun 25 12:48:33 OR if you change arrow images so that they do not look like images at all Jun 25 12:48:52 RST38h: pft, I didn't want them to look like that to begin with, give me a sec Jun 25 12:48:59 I was just using your images Jun 25 12:49:06 Something like a tiny black angle left-and-above the name will probably work Jun 25 12:49:33 placing two different icons together is a bad idea, however you are trying to implement it Jun 25 12:49:44 hrw: It's closed, afaik Jun 25 12:50:11 thx RST38h Jun 25 12:50:33 hrw, have you actually managed to find anything thats open? Jun 25 12:51:02 lcuk_wrk: some parts are open still Jun 25 12:51:15 Hildon widgets should be open Jun 25 12:51:17 yer i know, but every day you find something new thats not Jun 25 12:52:35 RST38h, rm_you really wishes at least some were Jun 25 12:52:43 lcuk_wrk: ;) Jun 25 12:53:08 lcuk_wrk: now I would like to have possiblity to change red/yellow/red icons of presence to white ones Jun 25 12:53:25 hrw: These you can simply replace in the file system, afaik Jun 25 12:53:39 RST38h: I want to make it system friendly way Jun 25 12:53:53 hrw, left panel is open source I think. part of the hildon desktop package Jun 25 12:53:57 it's in debian Jun 25 12:54:45 hrw: replacing a few files is a system friendly way really Jun 25 12:54:54 better than hacking at system components, anyway Jun 25 12:55:08 are perk bindings for gtk available on maemo? Jun 25 12:55:25 anyone have docs/example of setting the hildon input hints under python ( for a text entry box ) the oracle is failing to bring back anything coherent Jun 25 12:55:32 hmm guys, trying to flash diablo after the initfs was modified for booting from mmc... and I'm getting a "Version of 'sw-release': " and the flasher quits... any ideas? Jun 25 12:58:59 ok -> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/40x40/hildon/ contains them Jun 25 12:59:42 osso-icons-default package Jun 25 12:59:51 RST38h: ?? Jun 25 12:59:54 now? Jun 25 13:00:28 that's more what I had in mind for arrows anyway Jun 25 13:00:48 rm_you: now, that is much better Jun 25 13:00:57 packaging question... will 0.9b-1 or 0.9-2 be a higher ranked package? Jun 25 13:01:03 rm_you: although apps that have no icons appear to be dangling Jun 25 13:01:11 rm_you: maybe you can add a default icon for those? Jun 25 13:01:22 hrm Jun 25 13:01:27 rm_you, 0.9b-1 > 0.9-2 Jun 25 13:01:32 dangling? they are just a little bit further out Jun 25 13:01:39 rm_you: 0.9-2 is higher ranked afaik Jun 25 13:01:40 johnx: hrm k, good... Jun 25 13:01:44 hrm Jun 25 13:01:45 well Jun 25 13:01:48 rm_you: that is what I call dangling =) Jun 25 13:02:00 rm_you: anyway, a default icon will fix them quite nicely Jun 25 13:02:04 RST38h's sorting algorithm in the package aggrigator shows 0.9-2 above 0.9b-1 Jun 25 13:02:11 but i THINK johnz is right... i HOPE Jun 25 13:02:12 rm_you: I just saw that package in the promotion interface and was wondering about that too ;) Jun 25 13:02:13 lol Jun 25 13:02:23 yeah Jun 25 13:02:28 hrm Jun 25 13:03:33 rm_you: Well, 0.9-2 should be later than 0.9whatever-1 Jun 25 13:03:36 RST38h: slightly less dangling? Jun 25 13:03:45 And whoever calls them this way should be hung of course Jun 25 13:03:46 crap, well i may have to fix my package name then Jun 25 13:03:51 * rm_you is hung Jun 25 13:03:58 rm_you: Yea, coolio Jun 25 13:04:01 lol Jun 25 13:04:07 that is bad out of context :P Jun 25 13:04:57 looks decent now Jun 25 13:05:01 rm_you, hmm? did it sort wrong? Jun 25 13:05:20 johnx: i think i may have misnamed my new package Jun 25 13:05:26 no biggie, it is only in extras-devel yet Jun 25 13:05:31 RST38h: good :P Jun 25 13:05:36 so, any other bugfixes? Jun 25 13:05:58 RST38h: do I have to put Crawler.pl on a cron job or something? Jun 25 13:06:08 I do not see anything, but there are a few extensions you may want to do =) Jun 25 13:06:14 rm_you: yep, like once a day Jun 25 13:06:17 RST38h: like? Jun 25 13:06:54 rm_you: I would add a few db fields that count number of .install downloads and showings in the query resulsts Jun 25 13:07:11 rm_you: this will let us sort stuff by popularity Jun 25 13:07:26 I would also add a separate view of all known repos Jun 25 13:07:50 Finally (actually this should be first) I would add diablo to the list of OS versions Jun 25 13:08:01 Actually diablo is OS2008, so skip that =) Jun 25 13:08:17 lol Jun 25 13:08:20 but has seperate repos >_< Jun 25 13:08:24 johnx: afaik 0.9-2 is the second package of 0.9-version and 0.9b-1 is the first package of 0.9b, so id say 0.9b is newer than 0.9? Jun 25 13:08:30 or does b stand for beta? Jun 25 13:08:32 that is so very confusing from an EVERYTHING PACKAGE RELATED standpoint Jun 25 13:08:37 same os, different codename/repos Jun 25 13:08:42 mmm what is the more recent apps between maemo extras and testing maemo extras repos ? Jun 25 13:09:00 macoute_: i meant for b to mean "revision b, same package" Jun 25 13:09:00 macoute_, that's what I figured too. but the important questions is what will apt-get think is later? Jun 25 13:09:13 L0cutus: What do you mean by that ;) Jun 25 13:09:17 gh Jun 25 13:09:18 but i think the way you're supposed to do it is increment the number like 0.9-2 0.9-3 etc Jun 25 13:09:51 rm_you: I am pretty sure gronmayer will list it as OS2008 Jun 25 13:09:53 rm_you: yeah, so that revision b is newer than revision a (the first revision) Jun 25 13:09:54 i am just used to the 0.9, 0.9b, 0.9c, 0.9d scheme Jun 25 13:09:55 ok i've see advanced-backlight 0.9-2 on maemo extras and advanced-backlight (v. 0.9b-1) on testing Jun 25 13:10:02 rm_you: yeah, me too Jun 25 13:10:09 what is the more 'recent' ? Jun 25 13:10:13 LoCusF: yeah, and the one on testing is newer Jun 25 13:10:22 johnx: apt-get thinks 0.9b is newer, im pretty sure of that Jun 25 13:10:28 -b thing is a punishable offense against the repository Jun 25 13:10:29 0.9b-1 is supposed to be newer than 0.9-2 Jun 25 13:10:38 rm_you: WHY? Jun 25 13:10:41 macoute_, that's what I thought too Jun 25 13:10:41 in the future I will not do that Jun 25 13:10:43 like i said... Jun 25 13:10:45 i am just used to the 0.9, 0.9b, 0.9c, 0.9d scheme Jun 25 13:10:56 this is my first debian package :P Jun 25 13:10:57 a ok Jun 25 13:11:00 and afaik that is very normal use of versioning Jun 25 13:11:00 lol Jun 25 13:11:18 anyways the "-2" is for packaging changes by the package maintainer and main version bumps are for the developer Jun 25 13:11:20 and -x means the package number as always Jun 25 13:11:21 but i can see that it is very confusing Jun 25 13:11:24 it's normal as long as you do not have tertiary version numbers Jun 25 13:11:28 it is even confusing me, and i labeled it Jun 25 13:11:29 rm_you is dev and package maintainer so he gets to choose :P Jun 25 13:11:33 infact apps manager whant to upgrade it Jun 25 13:11:34 BOTH letters and tertiary version are weird Jun 25 13:11:43 0.9b.2-1 :S Jun 25 13:11:57 ok so heres what happened Jun 25 13:11:59 Aaaaaa Jun 25 13:12:27 on diablo python 2.5 in installe dby default ? Jun 25 13:12:30 0.9-1 was my first release, but i boned the packaging so i made 0.9-2, which is what made it to the repo Jun 25 13:12:41 same software version, just a package bump Jun 25 13:13:02 0.9b is supposed to be the new software version, and it is the first package, so ends up 0.9b-1 Jun 25 13:13:18 rm_you, that sounds right Jun 25 13:13:31 yeah.... hrm Jun 25 13:13:33 rm_you: Oh, almost forgot Jun 25 13:13:39 not sure if i will continue numbering like that tho Jun 25 13:13:48 rm_you: At the bottom of the page, make my name point to http://fms.komkon.org/ and add yours Jun 25 13:13:58 rm_you, just change the version scheme every release :D Jun 25 13:14:04 rofl Jun 25 13:14:15 * rm_you thinks johnx is deliciously evil Jun 25 13:14:48 RST38h: add my name? >_> Jun 25 13:14:48 maybe the next can be 0.9b1-1? Jun 25 13:14:58 rm_you: Well, you are now maintaining it =) Jun 25 13:15:23 Not as bad as this gem we have in extras: faad2_2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu6maemo1 Jun 25 13:15:42 And I'm not making that up :) Jun 25 13:15:53 oh, I believe you Jun 25 13:16:11 it's what happens when things don't get pushed upstream and new downstreams develop Jun 25 13:16:12 is ogg support there on diablo ? Jun 25 13:17:30 X-Fade: looks like the guy delegated package naming to his CVS Jun 25 13:17:44 q: i found lots of information about a webkit engine in the works and also fennec, is there a repo with packages for those? Jun 25 13:18:25 RST38h: hrm, this doesn't appear to be gathering info from all of the repos correctly Jun 25 13:18:28 sidnei_: Yes, there's a repo for fennec, but I don't think it's working w/ Diablo yet Jun 25 13:18:29 as it doesn't include VIM Jun 25 13:18:37 but the repo for VIM is in the database Jun 25 13:19:06 jsmith: have a link, so i can keep an eye on it? Jun 25 13:19:40 strange dependecies has rsbackup Jun 25 13:19:43 johnx: got my projector today, it roxxorz Jun 25 13:20:15 'flash-and-reboot', 'initfs-flasher' and kernel-diablo-flasher Jun 25 13:20:18 sidnei_: http://people.mozilla.org/~vladimir/fennec.install Jun 25 13:21:05 L0cutus: that's actually packages that werent installed for some reason in the default image, but are required by maemo-software-version, ie, required base packages Jun 25 13:21:08 very odd Jun 25 13:21:27 just apt-get -f install, and you are set Jun 25 13:22:07 ok thanks Jun 25 13:23:55 Anyone know of a good dev tutorial for maemo? I'm thinking of knocking up a quick python app as a proof of concept. Jun 25 13:24:03 I want an internet radio alarm clock. Jun 25 13:24:27 rm_you, the one you were building? or did you buy one? Jun 25 13:24:30 ccooke: heh, yeah that should be decently simple... erm, just need a maemo+python integration tutorial? Jun 25 13:24:34 what's the best between easyroot and becomeroot ? Jun 25 13:25:00 rm_you: yeah Jun 25 13:25:02 easyroot Jun 25 13:25:07 johnx: the one I was building... and then gave up building cuz I suck at physics (optics) and didn't have access to good woodworking equipment Jun 25 13:25:23 i ended up shipping all the parts to some guy and paying him a bunch to make it Jun 25 13:25:33 rm_you, and it works awesome? Jun 25 13:25:38 johnx: very awesome Jun 25 13:25:57 ccooke: if you find one, let me know :P I could prolly find one if i looked for like 5 minutes on google tho Jun 25 13:26:11 rm_you: i confirm apt-get -f install does install those packages Jun 25 13:26:22 johnx: just watched the new Futurama movie on it... and then Pulp Fiction :P Jun 25 13:26:28 I've found python to be surprisingly light on tutorials, actually Jun 25 13:26:35 sidnei_: yeah, it's very odd Jun 25 13:26:35 nothing like - say - ruby Jun 25 13:26:53 ccooke: yeah, well IIRC the python bindings for maemo are... work in progress Jun 25 13:26:56 ccooke: you're not supposed to need tutorials for python :) Jun 25 13:27:04 at least, for stuff like statusbar apps and desktop applets Jun 25 13:28:31 sidnei_: in which case, someone should have told the language designers that so they made fewer special cases! ;-) Jun 25 13:32:20 i'm just soooo happy that the finger keyboard now finally works consistently Jun 25 13:32:46 hi Jun 25 13:32:55 i used to randomly get finger or stylus keyboard depending on the application Jun 25 13:39:51 any python experts awake yet? Jun 25 13:40:41 sidnei_, I just bought the n810. How do you activate stylus keyboard? I had the 770 and with it stylus keyboard just activated when I "clicked" display Jun 25 13:41:32 polac: its in settings -> control panel -> text input settings Jun 25 13:41:49 then 'on-screen' Jun 25 13:42:03 and there's an option 'enable stylus input methods' Jun 25 13:42:18 which is disabled for me, since i don't like it ;) Jun 25 13:42:26 sleepy time i think... night yall Jun 25 13:43:05 I'm looking to get the chinook extras repo setup on diablo, but it's telling me there's an invalid signature, is there a way to fix it? Jun 25 13:43:46 ccooke: I'm having similar trouble, what 'cha makin' Jun 25 13:44:07 snowmoon-work: nothing until I've got the scratchbox reinstalled :-) Jun 25 13:44:21 I don't have scratchbox, it's not stopping me Jun 25 13:44:52 with python, you could prolly just code on the device Jun 25 13:45:05 not like you need a build environment <_< Jun 25 13:45:33 I'm coding for gtk/linux with a try: import hildon block. I scp the working app over to the n810 on occasion to test items Jun 25 13:45:57 I will concur... the docs are hit and miss Jun 25 13:46:11 sidnei_, thanks! I have to try it. Jun 25 13:46:12 rm_you: ... That's true Jun 25 13:46:38 I wound't code directly on the device, I like my sanity Jun 25 13:46:41 snowmoon-work: why not just ssh into the device and code on it? Jun 25 13:47:05 yeah, sorry if i didn't clarify... definitely SSH :P Jun 25 13:47:26 I can do the code/debug/test cycle much faster on my desktop and 98% of standard python/gtk works fine on the tablet Jun 25 13:47:35 so now, to keep all updated, what are the right command to give ? Jun 25 13:47:35 did someone tried to change iconsize in application menu? Jun 25 13:47:48 apt-get update;apt-get upgrade ? Jun 25 13:47:56 apt-get dist-upgrade no ? Jun 25 13:49:08 'night rm_you Jun 25 13:49:30 johnx: night... still wish we could hang out this summer :( ah well Jun 25 13:49:40 johnx: how many more years you guys planning to stay there? Jun 25 13:54:08 mmm battery-status doesn't work on diablo Jun 25 13:54:25 it doesn't find a module gobject Jun 25 13:54:56 hrm ok really sleeping now... one last plug for my bounty: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/gbounty/index.php?type=group&group_id=564&pluginname=gbounty Jun 25 13:55:09 not really a lot of cash there, hoping someone is just naturally helpful :P Jun 25 13:55:16 guys where is openssh for diablo? Jun 25 13:55:27 Saviq: in chinook extras Jun 25 13:55:27 'night rm_you :) Jun 25 13:56:43 rm_you: http://repository.maemo.org/extras ? Jun 25 13:57:26 http://repository.maemo.org/extras, chinook, free non-free Jun 25 13:57:55 wasn't there supposed to be some sort of autobuild effort for diablo? Jun 25 13:58:13 or is the promotion part not happening? Jun 25 13:58:15 sp3000: Yes there is ;) Jun 25 13:58:26 sp3000: I think there was an autobuild for chinook first, then diablo Jun 25 13:58:29 * sp3000 hasn't been really following it, not having any packages in that game Jun 25 13:58:30 Working really hard on that atm ;) Jun 25 13:58:37 ok good :) Jun 25 13:58:43 ccooke: you don't happen to know how to set the hildon input hint on a GtkEntry object in python do you? Jun 25 13:58:54 We're slowly filling extras-devel for diablo atm. Jun 25 13:58:58 snowmoon-work: not even started coding my first PoC yet :-) Jun 25 13:59:16 that's better, thanks sp3000 Jun 25 13:59:27 What is this mystery project ( for the inanely curious ) Jun 25 14:15:17 meh, no nmap for os2008? Jun 25 14:15:34 aquatix: afaicr there is one Jun 25 14:15:42 found on gronmayer Jun 25 14:15:48 oh Jun 25 14:15:54 * aquatix was looking on maemo.org Jun 25 14:17:49 has anyone else tried setting up chinook extras for diablo? Jun 25 14:18:39 summatusmentis: I installed some stuff from there Jun 25 14:19:04 hrw: did you set up the repo? Jun 25 14:19:21 summatusmentis: yes Jun 25 14:19:39 how did you fix the bad signature error? Jun 25 14:20:06 summatusmentis: which error? it just worked for me Jun 25 14:20:27 summatusmentis: all I had to do was edit it in h-a-m and add distro field Jun 25 14:21:57 I got a 'invalid signature' error when I ran apt-get update Jun 25 14:22:32 W: GPG error: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com diablo Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG F5925991C8009E74 Nokia repository signing key 1v1 Jun 25 14:22:35 that one? Jun 25 14:24:00 i get that too Jun 25 14:24:53 yes Jun 25 14:24:55 It doesn't matter, it can be safely ignored. Jun 25 14:25:19 oh, ok Jun 25 14:25:53 ~curseDavid Weinehall Jun 25 14:26:03 mce, display applet? Jun 25 14:26:10 (take your pick >.<) Jun 25 14:26:26 Personally, my I hate nokia thing is matchbox. Jun 25 14:26:42 Hi guys. The display on my N810 will not turn on. The hw keyboard stopped working on it so I rebooted it and then couldn't get the display to turn on. I can't tell if it's just the backlight that isn't lighting or if the display itself isn't on. Any suggestions? Jun 25 14:26:57 qwerty12: why? Jun 25 14:27:08 The way it handles windows :( Jun 25 14:27:09 Mouse, Taken the battery out and let it cool a bit and then trying again ? Jun 25 14:27:51 * summatusmentis wonders about Modest vs. mnotify Jun 25 14:29:09 forge: I had it charging last night in case it was a battery issue. It doesn't feel hot at all, but the battery's out now. Jun 25 14:29:54 I like nokia's new way of packing kernels :) Jun 25 14:30:56 qwerty12: small screen force such behaviour Jun 25 14:31:17 qwerty12: I hope that it will not overwrite my kernel without asking Jun 25 14:31:29 hrw, It can do :/ Jun 25 14:31:59 If you want though, just use debian pinning to make sure it isn't updated. Jun 25 14:32:02 qwerty12: I know that it can, I just hope that it will not do that without asking Jun 25 14:32:09 * ccooke attempts to wake up and read the python-maemo docs Jun 25 14:32:09 qwerty12: I removed those packages from my n810 Jun 25 14:33:30 * L0cutus is cloning diablo to mmc Jun 25 14:34:02 forge: how long should I leave it out? Jun 25 14:34:38 ~lart microwave pizza for making the cheese fall off onto the microwave Jun 25 14:34:38 * infobot slams microwave pizza against a large cement Tux for making the cheese fall off onto the microwave Jun 25 14:35:24 <---- HELP Jun 25 14:35:56 Good Tux. Jun 25 14:36:02 Have a cookie Tux. Jun 25 14:37:03 where to get e2fsprogs packaged for diablo? Jun 25 14:38:32 Chinook version should work perfectly fine, if not, I'll package you one later. Jun 25 14:39:57 Hey Guys Jun 25 14:39:58 wtf, "/scratchbox/compilers/host-gcc/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libncursesw.so when searching for -lncursesw Jun 25 14:39:58 " Jun 25 14:40:22 qwerty12: and put it into extras... Jun 25 14:40:30 your libncursesw is not happy Jun 25 14:40:51 hrw, Someone can do that for me, extras scares me :) Jun 25 14:41:05 summatusmentis, I have no idea why, this is cleanly installed diablo sdk :( Jun 25 14:41:22 looks like a host system thing Jun 25 14:42:18 It could be, compiling under windows isn't really a great idea :/ Jun 25 14:42:28 I'm spinning up a VM for maemo dev, what's best/easiest to get scratch box working cleanly ... ubuntu? Jun 25 14:43:07 that would be maybe the easiest Jun 25 14:43:10 qwerty12: that's my assumption, your host system has an incompatible version of libncursesw Jun 25 14:43:45 snowmoon-work: there is also http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ .. Jun 25 14:45:15 Replacing the battery fixed it, but it certainly seems odd that those two things would suddenly break. Jun 25 14:49:37 great program to clone OS the penguinbait one :) Jun 25 14:49:59 thanks :) Jun 25 14:50:29 hehe Jun 25 14:50:33 the magic man :) Jun 25 14:50:46 fcuk it, I'm just gonna edit scripts/kconfig/conf to not look for libncurses Jun 25 14:50:58 my motivation is driven by pure laziness :) Jun 25 14:51:06 Hello everybody :) Jun 25 14:51:19 Hello wazd Jun 25 14:51:26 Hi Jun 25 14:51:29 X-Fade: btw, at the weekend I'm going to be uploading some source packages to the builder (primarily the vala compiler so I can then upload some other packages depending on it). Is there much documentation on it? Jun 25 14:51:31 penguinbait: i've post a message on itt on your thread about my experience Jun 25 14:51:37 Happy Diablo release :) Jun 25 14:52:06 oh you used advanced edition, its really nice eh :) Jun 25 14:52:11 Does anyone facing "hildon-desktop" crash with OMWeather in Diablo? Jun 25 14:52:19 wazd, yes Jun 25 14:52:23 Jaffa: yay! vala! yay! Jun 25 14:52:26 Jaffa: What documentation are you looking for? Jun 25 14:52:47 It's fixed now, please wait for 0.21 release :) Jun 25 14:52:49 wazd: I have it too Jun 25 14:52:54 wazd: cool Jun 25 14:53:36 wazd: Good to hear :) Jun 25 14:53:55 yes penguinbait, really a panacea to our clone wastetime :D Jun 25 14:53:55 But 0.21 will bring you not only fixed crashes ;) A lot of new features are in :) Jun 25 14:54:01 L0cutus chroot /mnt/initfs cal-tool --set-root-device ask:mmc2 Jun 25 14:54:07 ok Jun 25 14:54:14 or mmc12 Jun 25 14:54:39 depending on what partition is, I do not have it choose default boot partition Jun 25 14:55:32 add to INTERNAL.txt the option for this, eg. DEFAULT N Jun 25 14:55:33 gh Jun 25 14:55:44 A pro-marijuana group has come up with an ingenious plan to combat air rage - let passengers skin up before flying out of Denver International Airport (DIA) which has become "a hot spot for arrests of drunken, unruly airplane passengers" Jun 25 14:56:08 "not just high altitudes anymore" Jun 25 14:56:10 Aw, another boring question, does anybody facing problems with RDesktop in Diablo (again)?) Jun 25 14:56:14 wazd: when? Jun 25 14:56:27 wazd: I mean: when OMWeather 0.21 release? Jun 25 14:56:47 Well, according to my glitchy maemo-mail sending system it will be... tomorrow! :) Jun 25 14:56:48 L0cutus, I will consider it for future versions :) Jun 25 14:56:54 wazd: yay Jun 25 14:56:57 shouldnt be to hard Jun 25 14:58:16 yes, i think it is too Jun 25 14:58:20 Ah no, sorry, I'm wrong Jun 25 14:58:31 rw: why curse david? Jun 25 14:58:46 It will be on the July 2nd!) Jun 25 14:59:07 But it will be veeery nice release I tell ya!) Jun 25 14:59:24 * wazd turns Steve Jobs mode on Jun 25 15:00:31 gorgeous unpresidented extrordinary fabulous perfect shiny awesomely cool, best release EVER! © ))) Jun 25 15:00:40 * wazd turns Steve Jobs mode off Jun 25 15:00:53 wazd: butbutbut Jun 25 15:00:56 wazd, Stop that, you make me want to check out svn :p Jun 25 15:00:58 that's a week from now! Jun 25 15:01:13 * aquatix can't wait that long Jun 25 15:01:16 it will kill me Jun 25 15:01:19 It's not in the SVN now ;) Jun 25 15:01:30 * aquatix starts nmap'ing wazd's pc Jun 25 15:01:31 what y'all talking about ? Jun 25 15:01:35 Top Secret'n'stuff :) Jun 25 15:01:44 wazd, Damn >.< Jun 25 15:01:45 microb now runs under other window managers with diablo, no bottom toolbar, but working great none the less Jun 25 15:02:27 Diablo runs ultra-smooth to my mind Jun 25 15:02:43 wazd, a suggestion: Have the option of getting data from other sources, such as wunderground (unless that's already possible?) Jun 25 15:02:56 mouser - you bet ;) Jun 25 15:03:48 Well, It's there but Underground haven't respond to my request of giving XML info Jun 25 15:03:54 Asses x( Jun 25 15:04:34 But! Good news: weather.com sends 10 days forecast again, open the shampagne :) Jun 25 15:05:25 wazd: What's the memory footprint of OMweather now? Jun 25 15:07:25 good question :) Actually I don't know how to see it cause i'm not a coder :) Jun 25 15:08:43 An I don't have latest-latest build of it cause debugging process is 24/7 now :) Jun 25 15:09:30 our coders, Vlad and Pavel works pretty hard right now to clean up all the bugs in here :) Jun 25 15:09:48 heeeelllo everyone Jun 25 15:09:48 do anyone have the kcbatt.c file? Jun 25 15:10:04 the site is offline and i really need that file now :( Jun 25 15:10:30 That's true say, where is KotCzarny? I miss that guy. Jun 25 15:10:55 probably courting some koshka =) Jun 25 15:11:20 That's probably Polish/Russian/Ukranian for something I don't know :P Jun 25 15:11:56 a female cat. although Polish equivalent may differ a bit. Jun 25 15:13:00 Ah cool. Jun 25 15:13:31 naaah, google says it is the same thing Jun 25 15:13:54 summatusmentis, I know what my ncurses problem is, I think nokia messed up :/ Jun 25 15:14:16 oh? Jun 25 15:15:01 Yes, I only have the diablo sdk repo and to make sure everything was there, I did apt-get install *curses and everything was listed as installed. In usr/include, I had to symlink ncursesw to ncurses Jun 25 15:16:08 ok.. i know that you guys realy hate me for developing Flash applications. You want me to give you another reason for hating me? Jun 25 15:17:13 You made a pink transformation pack? Jun 25 15:18:06 lol. no... i started to develop a system substituition so that instead of a whole system, i some day will only need a browser on my device *sigh* Jun 25 15:18:09 X-Fade: documentation of the form: what architectures will it build (x86/armel)? Jun 25 15:18:20 but now that the new ubuntu is out, i do not know if i will continue the work.... Jun 25 15:18:23 Jaffa: Yeah, it will build both.. Jun 25 15:18:28 hmmm... Jun 25 15:18:49 so... there's been no documentation for Python on Maemo written since version 3, right? Jun 25 15:18:52 mgedmin: yeah, I'm a bit impressed by it. Figure I'll get valac and hopefully libgee in extras-devel by the end of the weekend; and maybe some simple noddy vala Hildon app Jun 25 15:18:56 X-Fade: cool Jun 25 15:23:11 wazd, Go on, post up info on the new omweather here and put them out of their misery :) : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=195303#post195303 Jun 25 15:23:24 enterprise is fun. Jun 25 15:23:43 enterprise thing that embeds RedHat enterprise is even more fun. Jun 25 15:24:24 <---hit a kernel bug that I see is discussed on mailing lists at least in october 2004...(in kernel 2.4.22, I have 2.4.21(!)) Jun 25 15:24:28 Is there any program that can list the libraries that a binary file needs? Jun 25 15:24:36 qwerty12: ldd Jun 25 15:24:39 ldd something Jun 25 15:24:42 Thank you Jun 25 15:24:49 cyberholic: and you will get a 80s feel on device due to flash taking most of cpu time for doing nothing? Jun 25 15:24:54 ok everyone, juste in case you would like to see what is able with FLASH and the APIs out there, here are my first steps ..... Jun 25 15:24:56 http://www.mojocafe.net/v2/ Jun 25 15:24:57 qwerty12: objdump Jun 25 15:25:19 hrw: not if oyu know how to develop the stuff and ignore all the animation stuff. Jun 25 15:25:30 at the moment only the yahoo weather and the eventlist work. Jun 25 15:27:28 cyberholic: thx but for me flash is good for banner or simple games. nothing more Jun 25 15:28:06 hrw, well, it the right hands flash is VEEERY powerfull tool Jun 25 15:28:07 hrw: checked out the mojos at mojocafe.net? full screen clocks on your device? Jun 25 15:28:33 in the left hands everything sux :) Jun 25 15:28:47 wazd: sure, but tell to adobe that x86 is not the only one existing platform Jun 25 15:28:59 cyberholic: Opening a web browser, getting an internet connection and logging on to a website to get a full screen clock seemed a little.... inefficient.... to me. Jun 25 15:29:15 But the left side is the crip side! Jun 25 15:29:46 Jaffa, just save them) Jun 25 15:30:23 and then just click on the file and voia la :) Jun 25 15:30:36 wazd: correct! Jun 25 15:31:16 that only does not work with the news or weather Mojos as you need to go online. But as allready mentioned before, i think that it is only a question of time when people will be 24/7 online. Jun 25 15:32:02 25/8! )) Jun 25 15:32:37 lol Jun 25 15:32:42 hi murrayc_ Jun 25 15:32:49 btw, why can't anybody make a desktop applet that plays flash?) Jun 25 15:32:51 hi florian Jun 25 15:33:04 * hrw does not use any desktop applets now Jun 25 15:33:06 wazd: because *nix loves not flash :) Jun 25 15:33:21 ah, hell( Jun 25 15:33:59 hrw, you don't use OMWeather?! Die!111 xD Jun 25 15:34:10 wazd: it does not work under Diablo Jun 25 15:34:29 Ya, I don't feel like going through gconf to configure the app :/ Jun 25 15:34:35 wazd/cyberholic: yes, I know that's possible - and I've used it in the past for some games, but it's hardly user friendly Jun 25 15:34:44 It may just need a recompile with diablo libraries though. Jun 25 15:34:46 * qwerty12 shrugs Jun 25 15:35:22 omwheather is not buildable outside of maemo anyway Jun 25 15:35:34 wazd: make it buildable without liblocation Jun 25 15:35:56 why do you need OMWeather outside the maemo?) Jun 25 15:36:19 you can't build it in scratchbox? Jun 25 15:36:49 Aw, I have a nice software idea :) Flash launcher!) Jun 25 15:36:53 jaffa: as i said before, in my opinion it is not the question of the reason why, but because of the content. I also first thought: GEEEESus, i can play gameboy games on my n800 - but when i touched my screen so often, i get afraid that my device might break because of me wanting to play gameboy games on it. So i continue to play the games on my real gameboy. But the fullscreen clocks, weather info etc. is only there to offer some information w Jun 25 15:36:54 wazd: because I want? Jun 25 15:37:24 hrw, well, okay!) Jun 25 15:37:27 snowmoon-work: scrachbox is not on my list of tools which I use Jun 25 15:37:49 I havn't gotten around to it either Jun 25 15:38:02 we need something like MPlayer but for flash files :) Jun 25 15:38:20 you mean whole flash or .flv? Jun 25 15:38:36 anyone know how to set the hildon input hints on GtkEntry fields through python? Jun 25 15:38:39 .swf :0 Jun 25 15:38:41 :) Jun 25 15:39:28 wazd: Flash launcher and Flash desktop applets is exactly what Ubuntu Mobile uses for its whizzy home screen. It just hides the left-hand navigator and then has a very large applet in the middle of the desktop showing a Flash app Jun 25 15:39:45 Well, Adobe is supposed to have open-sourced flash player Jun 25 15:39:55 * snowmoon-work *shudders* think of the battery people! Jun 25 15:39:56 wazd: and there's already a stand-alone player for Flash files on the tablet, it's used in the "Getting started" thingy Jun 25 15:40:01 snowmoon-work: indeed Jun 25 15:40:04 Jafa, oh hell, i think it's damn slow :) Jun 25 15:40:13 jaffa*, sorry Jun 25 15:40:46 Jaffa: Do you know the name of the built-in flash player? Jun 25 15:41:42 Oh, if it's already there, we just need a finger-friendly launcher for files and here we go :) Jun 25 15:42:34 It "hooks" the microb flash plugin. I remember in chinook, if you turned it off in browser, getting started would show nothing. Jun 25 15:43:56 damn, it's really great idea! It will allow developers to use another enviroment to make applications Jun 25 15:45:22 Well, I don't think the getting started is open source but you can replace the swf file that it plays. Jun 25 15:45:29 wazd: thats exactly why i started mojocafl.net - at least as it is flash, you can play it at nearly ANY device. I have been informed that the Mojos also do work on the PSP and the n95 with the latest firmware! Jun 25 15:46:27 did diablo come with rotation support? Jun 25 15:46:33 penguinbait, no Jun 25 15:46:47 Ok guys. gotta go back to work. until then enjoy the day and wish you the best. Jun 25 15:47:09 thats what I thought, but I have people telling me I broke the built in rotation support in diablo with my clone deb Jun 25 15:47:28 Itt = Noobs Jun 25 15:48:00 yes qwerty Jun 25 15:48:54 so it looks like Diablo needs only gnutls and libsoup? Jun 25 15:48:56 its amazing how much time I spend on troubleshooting stuff, just because people refuse to #$@$#@ read Jun 25 15:55:36 Ok, anyone want cfdisk? Jun 25 15:57:35 ok... how about docs/examples on interacting with gconf through python? Jun 25 16:03:29 snowmoon-work: have you tried google? Jun 25 16:03:34 I remember seeing something like that... Jun 25 16:03:47 Yes, as wellas site searching maemo, pygtk, ... Jun 25 16:03:47 it was a Python script that used gconf to set the desktop wallpaper Jun 25 16:03:54 the bindings looked pretty simple Jun 25 16:04:13 I'm sure they are simple, but I'm having a hell of a time finding updates docs Jun 25 16:04:33 or any docs, right now I'm searching through 3 year old code looking for insight Jun 25 16:04:45 import gconf; client = gconf.client_get_default(); print client.get_string("/desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename") Jun 25 16:08:13 using help(gconf) is a poor substitute for docs Jun 25 16:31:14 can someone add 'how to add your package into extras repository' on wiki? Jun 25 16:34:19 jott, ping Jun 25 16:34:44 hi, can anybody help me, I 5 times try to download with my unstable connect "diablo" image and have no success...have anybody link with resume download? Jun 25 16:34:47 Hmm Jun 25 16:41:40 W00T Party time Jun 25 16:41:56 happy splitting Jun 25 16:42:12 It was nice knowing yo... ARRGH!!!!! Jun 25 16:42:20 * qwerty12 has left the building Jun 25 16:42:43 * hellwolf has left the earth Jun 25 17:15:23 ~lart nokia for taking the piss with kernel packaging Jun 25 17:15:26 * infobot slaps nokia upside the head with a wet fish for taking the piss with kernel packaging Jun 25 17:19:49 can any posy the default content for hildon-application-manager.list on diablo ? Jun 25 17:19:54 post Jun 25 17:22:51 Anunakin: you mean /var/lib/dpkg/info/hildon-application-manager.list ? Jun 25 17:23:32 Anunakin: http://maemo.pastey.net/90031 Jun 25 17:28:17 hey.. Jun 25 17:28:26 i have gpe-calendar installed Jun 25 17:28:38 and synevolution does not see the calendar database... whats the matter? Jun 25 17:30:09 is there a standalone onscreen keyboard app for n800? Jun 25 17:30:21 other than the default Jun 25 17:30:40 or a way to call it up manually? Jun 25 17:32:11 there is the iphone keyb like demo.. :P Jun 25 17:35:45 where? Jun 25 17:41:10 mgedmin: I need this /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Jun 25 17:44:52 Anunakin: http://maemo.pastey.net/90034, more or less Jun 25 17:44:57 mine is already customized Jun 25 17:45:03 so I removed the extra repos Jun 25 17:45:11 and changed the extras entry from chinook back to diablo Jun 25 17:45:42 although the default was empty and I don't know how h-a-m represents that in sources.list Jun 25 17:46:26 mgedmin: Thanks! Jun 25 17:46:36 hey Jun 25 17:47:12 what is the difference between feature upgrade unlocked and the default feature upgrade Jun 25 17:51:43 I'd like to use a custom maemo menu icon, can anybody point me to a good tutorial. I don't want to package my app. Jun 25 17:52:25 Why don't you want to package your app? Jun 25 17:53:11 PhosphoricX: put something liek "Icon=xxx" in your desktop file Jun 25 17:53:17 and put a xxx.png in /usr/share/pixmaps Jun 25 17:53:18 thats all Jun 25 17:53:31 inz: still testing and had trouble setting up cpu transparency under VMware Jun 25 17:54:46 zap: cool, but how do I get it to appear bigger Jun 25 17:54:56 zap: right now it's tiny tiny, looks like 24x24 maybe Jun 25 17:55:03 is there a win ce emulator for the n800? Jun 25 18:02:59 fwiw, i'm pulling the sources of diablo from repository.maemo.org Jun 25 18:03:09 i should have a cross reference on timeless.justdave.net by the end of the week Jun 25 18:08:04 Ugh, more spam. Jun 25 18:09:12 ? Jun 25 18:09:24 wiki Jun 25 18:10:03 hi there, how can I flash the diabl image to my SD card so I can try diablo? Jun 25 18:11:22 ah, finally go it, you have to rebuild the icon cache and put the 64x64 under scalable Jun 25 18:12:55 Hmm. Don't think maemo mapper works in Diablo... Jun 25 18:13:23 I've been using it for weeks. Jun 25 18:13:39 ^ Jun 25 18:13:54 GA: it won't find any gpsd. Jun 25 18:14:08 ok, might be n810 specific. Jun 25 18:14:12 Bluetooth Jun 25 18:14:15 Blank MAC Jun 25 18:15:03 ah, thanks. Jun 25 18:15:09 That was far from logical ;) Jun 25 18:15:17 It's covered pretty much everywhere, though. Jun 25 18:15:35 but it's changed in Diablo? Jun 25 18:15:39 No. Jun 25 18:15:43 Worked the same way in Chinook. Jun 25 18:15:55 hmf. But chinook had a proper gpsd too? Jun 25 18:16:08 I'm pretty sure I used gpsd. Jun 25 18:16:21 Then you reconfigured the gpsd in Chinook. Jun 25 18:17:02 oh well. Maybe I don't remember. Jun 25 18:17:13 I'm not gonna reflash Chinook to check it ;) Jun 25 18:17:18 You don't. ;) Jun 25 18:18:10 now, time to go out, reboot the GPS while no network connection, and test how long it'll take to get a fix (with agps, mind you) Jun 25 18:18:44 eh, reboot the n810... Jun 25 18:19:09 all, plz,I need RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, can anybody send me it by email, I can't download it from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php, I've very unstable link Jun 25 18:19:29 no Jun 25 18:19:34 that file is not for redist Jun 25 18:19:39 hum ... Jun 25 18:20:00 hrhr: try use firefox to download Jun 25 18:20:17 ff3.0 error after reconnect =( Jun 25 18:20:54 I using FF2.0.14 on Gentoo Linux Jun 25 18:21:07 works nice Jun 25 18:21:12 I use opera, ff, konqueror on gentoo Jun 25 18:21:17 no effect Jun 25 18:26:13 Man, it's an epic shitstorm of bad advice on itT. Jun 25 18:29:47 GA: XChat/Transmission thread? Jun 25 18:30:11 Yes, and others. Jun 25 18:30:37 I do not understand what their problem is: both apps work for me on Diablo Jun 25 18:30:50 Modest, on the other hand, fails in a variety of ways Jun 25 18:31:17 Just found that its mail fetcher crashes, so I had to cancel dozens of "Mail application has crashed" dialogs Jun 25 18:36:30 ok. download openstreetmap full detail of the city center, before I go out on GPS testing expedition. Jun 25 18:39:22 * qwerty12_N800 hates decimals. I always think 2.14 is newer than 2.8 until i remember 2.8 = 2.80 :/ Jun 25 18:39:44 with version numbers, you can't be sure. Jun 25 18:40:46 what? Jun 25 18:40:56 oh, right Jun 25 18:41:10 I've almost forgotten that version numbers used to be floats in DOS/Windows world Jun 25 18:41:25 in Linux version numbers are strings of integers, sorted lexicographically Jun 25 18:41:39 so 2.14 is usually newer than 2.8 Jun 25 18:42:00 it's easier when there are three numbers: 2.14.0 vs 2.8.0 Jun 25 18:42:04 then it's obvious this can't be a float Jun 25 18:42:08 ewww, that looks wrong, in windows im used to major.minor.revision Jun 25 18:42:29 hi marius btw Jun 25 18:42:30 lcuk, i think the reference is to 3.11 v 3.1 Jun 25 18:42:39 hi, lcuk Jun 25 18:42:47 qwerty: 2.14 newer than 2.8 =) Jun 25 18:42:57 2.1.4 is not 2.14 =) Jun 25 18:43:42 RST38h, Ah, thanks >.< Jun 25 18:43:57 2.14.0 Jun 25 18:44:01 ~lart dodgy versioning Jun 25 18:44:02 * infobot beats the living hamstercrap out of dodgy versioning Jun 25 18:44:19 and any system you come up with will just confuse users more Jun 25 18:44:44 i actually like dated releases Jun 25 18:46:34 is there a winCE emulator for the n800? Jun 25 18:47:14 OK, I'm not deleting anymore spam pages today Jun 25 18:47:26 anonymous http edit ban is going back in place for 24 hours. Jun 25 18:48:04 W: GPG error: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com diablo Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG F5925991C8009E74 Nokia repository signing key 1v1 Jun 25 18:48:05 hey im GMT -4 Jun 25 18:48:09 What do I do? Jun 25 18:48:10 where do i set this?.. Jun 25 18:48:17 Ignore it. Jun 25 18:48:22 killfill, move house Jun 25 18:48:31 GMT-4 is ocean Jun 25 18:48:33 killfill, what are you talkingg about? Jun 25 18:48:37 RST38h, no it's not. Jun 25 18:48:41 It's EDT Jun 25 18:48:44 \s\boat\house\ Jun 25 18:48:46 or up in Canada. Jun 25 18:48:48 Ah, shit... Jun 25 18:48:50 * RST38h forgot Jun 25 18:48:52 * lcuk fails Jun 25 18:49:04 You'd still be wrong even if it weren't for DST. :P Jun 25 18:49:25 GA: Newfoundland is probably the only place Jun 25 18:49:26 aah nevermind.. :P Jun 25 18:49:33 Canada, Brazil Jun 25 18:49:33 http://www.geographicguide.net/maps/time-zones.gif Jun 25 18:49:59 ah Jun 25 18:50:07 damn, openmoko released and the slashdot article says "t boasts a 500MHz processor, WiFi, 3D" newline *heart skipped a beat* "accelerometers, a 4.3-inch VGA touchscreen, Bluetooth, and built-in GPS." Jun 25 18:50:11 So, what do I do about that BADSIG error? Jun 25 18:50:18 get a better sig Jun 25 18:50:25 Ignore it Jun 25 18:50:25 heh Jun 25 18:50:29 That's what I do, anyway. Jun 25 18:50:32 apt-get update stops Jun 25 18:50:43 RST38h, it doesn't Jun 25 18:51:07 those msgs are displayed after downloading new package lists Jun 25 18:51:20 where does pimlico dates save the calendar data? Jun 25 18:51:23 need to reset it Jun 25 18:52:57 qwerty:: ah Jun 25 18:53:07 apt-get upgrade installs flasher apps Jun 25 18:53:17 then upgrades python...mhm Jun 25 18:55:20 can i list the packages i have installed and the dates when i installed them? Jun 25 18:55:27 BTW, I still have rtcom-beta-os2008 installed - should I remove it? Jun 25 18:55:32 lcuk: dpkg --list Jun 25 18:55:53 thx Jun 25 19:01:07 lcuk: for the dates try ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/*.list Jun 25 19:01:23 General: There? Jun 25 19:01:29 sorry, ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list Jun 25 19:01:34 Yeah Jun 25 19:01:41 ahhh mgedmin thanks, i was just seeing if there was an option on dpkg Jun 25 19:01:52 General: Could you check if you have rtcom-beta-os2008 installed on your pad? Jun 25 19:02:05 lcuk: if there is, tell me :-) Jun 25 19:02:09 I do not Jun 25 19:02:16 Er, well, should not Jun 25 19:02:18 I didn't install it. Jun 25 19:02:20 dpkg --llist ? Jun 25 19:02:24 --list sorry Jun 25 19:02:33 rst, doesnt list dates Jun 25 19:02:50 lcuk: I know, but I just need to find out if rtcom-beta-os2008 is present in diablo Jun 25 19:03:09 I do not. Jun 25 19:03:13 hrm, we should probably update that, yeah :) Jun 25 19:03:25 otoh, it should just work (tm) Jun 25 19:03:48 I was really hoping Diablo would ship with all the shiny new telepathy plugins. . . . Jun 25 19:04:02 RST38h, It is not present by default in diablo but installs and works fine in diablo Jun 25 19:04:16 if you look closely, the beta actually has the telepathy plugins hosted on collabora.co.uk :) Jun 25 19:04:35 Yeah, that's where I've been directing people Jun 25 19:04:49 but I'd just as soon that everybody could add their AIM, Yahoo and MSN accounts right off the bat. Jun 25 19:05:23 yeah, I think that'd involve paperwork between Nokia and the respective companies :) Jun 25 19:05:42 Funny they didn't ship the rtcomm stuff ( that seems to work like a charm ) but shipped modest which hasn't been stable for months Jun 25 19:05:55 qwerty: but it is not needed, right? Jun 25 19:06:04 Robot: yep Jun 25 19:06:32 snowmoon: it's mostly controlled by promises Jun 25 19:06:41 modest was committed for diablo Jun 25 19:06:49 hello! Is there xchat for N800? Jun 25 19:06:50 that like programming by faith ;-) Jun 25 19:06:55 http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/ Jun 25 19:06:56 RST38h, Not if you don't use msn, aim, yahoo or irc with the built in chat client. Jun 25 19:06:59 timeless: and it still crashes every time it goes to check email Jun 25 19:07:29 qwerty: just using icq and gtalk Jun 25 19:07:31 rst38h: i use gmail Jun 25 19:07:35 which works nicely in browser :) Jun 25 19:07:47 gmail is paaaainful to use on microb Jun 25 19:07:58 although quite reasonable on the ipod touch *wink* Jun 25 19:08:01 mgedmin, :) perfect - with a tweak (-ltr) i got the results even sorted as required Jun 25 19:08:07 sidnei: https://mail.google.com/mail/h/ works fine Jun 25 19:08:15 the iphone site in portrait mode isn't too bad Jun 25 19:08:32 sidnei: you can also ask gmail to give you the apple feel in microb Jun 25 19:08:33 ohshiticqjustwentaway!!! Jun 25 19:08:33 is it possible to get microb in portrait mode? Jun 25 19:08:43 RST38h, icq iirc is part of rtcomm Jun 25 19:08:45 sidnei: not out of the box Jun 25 19:08:52 sidnei: Use mobile version of gmail Jun 25 19:08:56 timeless: yes, i did that, but on landscape mode its kinda odd Jun 25 19:08:57 qwerty: yep Jun 25 19:09:02 sidnei: anyway, you have choices Jun 25 19:09:09 https://mail.google.com/mail/x/ Jun 25 19:09:12 https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=1 Jun 25 19:09:44 depending on what you need, you should be able to find one that works Jun 25 19:09:55 i know that an imap client will not be able to survive my mailboxes Jun 25 19:09:58 so i don't bother Jun 25 19:10:14 same here :) Jun 25 19:10:18 timeless: I also use gmail and pine from xterm Jun 25 19:10:29 is there a mutt package? Jun 25 19:10:39 timeless: but it is still frustrating that the INTERNET tablet does not come with a working mail client Jun 25 19:10:41 rst38h: ... Jun 25 19:10:41 You are currently using 2498 MB (36%) of your 6863 MB. Jun 25 19:10:54 1 - 50 of 185525 Older . Oldest ; Jun 25 19:11:00 I'm only using 200MB and modest still crashes Jun 25 19:11:05 I am? Really? :) Jun 25 19:11:06 pine/mutt are not likely to survive that Jun 25 19:11:20 Modest has a 15k message hard-limit, I believe. Jun 25 19:11:33 timeless: Depends on how you sort it Jun 25 19:11:44 rst38h: "sort"? never heard of that Jun 25 19:11:54 but typically sorting 100k messages is very expensive Jun 25 19:11:55 GeneralAntilles: really??? Jun 25 19:11:57 timeless <-- disorganized! =) Jun 25 19:12:07 rst38h: why should i organize? Jun 25 19:12:13 * Stskeeps uses gtd principles.. almost constant empty inbox and a read folder Jun 25 19:12:14 :P Jun 25 19:12:17 it wouldn't be so bad if modest respected the 'fetch only last 100 messages' setting Jun 25 19:12:32 timeless: to become a better human being? =) Jun 25 19:12:39 im really puzzled that that setting doesnt do anything Jun 25 19:12:42 https://mail.google.com/mail/#search/is%3Aunread+(crash+OR+crashes+OR+crashed+OR+coverity+OR+%22dumped+core%22+OR+segfault+OR+%22core+dump%22+OR+klocwork+OR+%22qacontact%3Atimeless%22+OR+%22bemail%22+OR+%22webtools.bugs%22+OR+%22ReportedBy%3Atimeless%22+OR+%22inspector%40extension.bugs%22)]/ Jun 25 19:12:49 maybe it's just for pop? Jun 25 19:13:18 sidnei: imap doesn't work that way Jun 25 19:13:19 sidnei_, http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-June/033961.html Jun 25 19:13:19 doesnt google automatically handle plurals in its search algo? Jun 25 19:13:25 you're generally required to get the whole index Jun 25 19:13:26 All explained very nicely there. Jun 25 19:13:48 mgedmin, that was the read I got from the thread, anyway. Jun 25 19:14:58 can i cough loudly and say outlook express can handle a metric shittonne of emails (thats a SI unit btw) Jun 25 19:15:25 You could, but then we'll just have to laugh at you for using Outlook. Jun 25 19:15:26 Anybody succeeded in uploading in extras or extras-devel for diablo ? Jun 25 19:15:54 The usual way (http://maemo.org/community/application-catalog/extras_repository.html) dont work for me anymore. Jun 25 19:16:14 And all the thread in the list do not states _where_ is actually explained the "new" way ,if any Jun 25 19:16:20 http://extras-cauldron.garage.maemo.org/HOWTO.html Jun 25 19:17:29 is canola in the standard repo? Jun 25 19:17:38 hrm, how new is extras-cauldron? Jun 25 19:17:41 It's in Extras. Jun 25 19:17:46 lcuk, chinook extras Jun 25 19:17:47 thanks. Is it "official" (or just a garage project that makes an autobuilder) Jun 25 19:17:53 that wont go through the couldron then will it Jun 25 19:18:42 cool, swift knows about extras-cauldron Jun 25 19:19:03 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-June/033979.html http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-June/033630.html Jun 25 19:19:10 See those threads. Jun 25 19:20:03 gan: you should really move the css out of the howto file Jun 25 19:20:11 and you should also fix the file extension Jun 25 19:20:21 HOWTO.html w/ an xml / xhtml doctype Jun 25 19:20:22 Huh? Jun 25 19:20:40 http://swift/garage/source/extras-cauldron/www/HOWTO.html?force=1 Jun 25 19:20:42 Anybody knows where rtcom stores contact information? Jun 25 19:20:46 1 Jun 25 19:20:46 2 Jun 25 19:20:46 3 Jun 25 19:20:52 9