**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 28 02:59:57 2008
Jun 28 03:03:16 <summatusmentis> m_mouser: I've got unlimited data, but tethering at 3MB every day is gonna start showing up to them...
Jun 28 03:05:53 <m_mouser> Tethering packages are expensive, when they're even offered, summatusmentis
Jun 28 03:06:32 <summatusmentis> not a tethering package... USDModem on my centro >_>
Jun 28 03:08:38 <rm_you> johnx: yo
Jun 28 03:08:43 <johnx> hey
Jun 28 03:08:47 <johnx> about to head to work
Jun 28 03:08:48 <rm_you> just woke up :)
Jun 28 03:08:52 <johnx> me too
Jun 28 03:08:56 <rm_you> lol
Jun 28 03:09:04 <johnx> congrats, you're on something that resembles JST
Jun 28 03:09:21 <summatusmentis> GeneralAntilles: I got Macbook tethering working too! :)
Jun 28 03:12:27 <GeneralAntilles> Woo
Jun 28 04:13:48 <rm_you> I need a good bluetooth headset. recommendations?
Jun 28 04:14:17 <GeneralAntilles> Plantronics
Jun 28 04:14:23 <GeneralAntilles> I like the Voyager 510
Jun 28 04:15:56 <rm_you> does it work in either ear?
Jun 28 04:16:05 <rm_you> looking at a picture, not sure how reversible it looks
Jun 28 04:16:46 <GeneralAntilles> It's 100% reversible
Jun 28 04:17:21 <GeneralAntilles> The boom spins and rotates
Jun 28 04:17:34 <rm_you> ok
Jun 28 04:19:38 <rm_you> any other people have suggestions?
Jun 28 04:19:44 <rm_you> i want to at least pretend to consider multiple options
Jun 28 04:20:16 <rm_you> does it charge via bluetooth?
Jun 28 04:20:27 <GeneralAntilles> Pick another Plantronics model.
Jun 28 04:20:32 <GeneralAntilles> It's the only brand worth going with. ;)
Jun 28 04:21:35 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=40000565&Description=plantronics&bop=And&Order=REVIEWS
Jun 28 04:22:31 <Proteous> charge via,bluetooth, that would be a trick
Jun 28 04:22:47 <rm_you> err
Jun 28 04:22:48 <rm_you> gah
Jun 28 04:22:50 <rm_you> i meant
Jun 28 04:22:52 <rm_you> charge via usb
Jun 28 04:23:02 <Proteous> heh
Jun 28 04:23:04 <GeneralAntilles> No, custom charger.
Jun 28 04:23:06 <rm_you> bluetooth on the brain :P
Jun 28 04:23:10 <GeneralAntilles> I haven't seen any USB ones.
Jun 28 04:23:20 * rm_you is compiling bluez-utils and shopping for a bluetooth headset
Jun 28 04:23:30 <Proteous> I now demand charge via bluetooth!!!
Jun 28 04:23:57 <keesj> bugger, can't I install sbox on amd64
Jun 28 06:21:55 <rm_you> damn, the bluez-utils 3.30 i compiled doesn't work :(
Jun 28 06:21:57 <rm_you> sad
Jun 28 06:22:14 <qwerty12> how doesn't it work?
Jun 28 06:24:29 <qwerty12> (I ask because I compiled .32 fine for diablo. Worked for a while, then I started getting hcid crashes :/)
Jun 28 06:32:35 <rm_you> where did you get .32?
Jun 28 06:32:40 <rm_you> i grabbed .30 from debian sid
Jun 28 06:32:50 <rm_you> you go straight to bluez people?
Jun 28 06:33:35 <qwerty12> You know nokia do customisations to bluez right?
Jun 28 06:33:36 <qwerty12> https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/connectivity/
Jun 28 06:37:07 <rm_you> :/
Jun 28 06:37:12 <rm_you> was unaware
Jun 28 06:37:22 <rm_you> just grabbed their patches from 3.28
Jun 28 06:37:37 <rm_you> and manually applied the ones that didn't automatically work
Jun 28 06:43:29 <qwerty12> Heh, I'm manually converting a patch atm :)
Jun 28 06:43:57 <rm_you> for bluez?
Jun 28 06:44:07 <qwerty12> Nope, for load-applet
Jun 28 07:31:11 <RST38h> qwerty,rm_you: MOO
Jun 28 07:31:21 <qwerty12> BAA
Jun 28 07:48:51 <Jaffa> RST38h: quack
Jun 28 07:49:03 <RST38h> whack!
Jun 28 07:49:06 <qwerty12> smack!
Jun 28 07:49:37 * Jaffa lying in bed trying to shake a migraine
Jun 28 07:50:27 <Jaffa> X-Fade: ping - uploaded a package to diablo builder last night, but not got a response nearly 12 hours later
Jun 28 08:03:43 <RST38h> Hehe, the tablet is warm to the touch
Jun 28 08:03:52 <RST38h> And when I bring up the process list, what do I see?
Jun 28 08:04:01 <RST38h> Any good guesses? ;)
Jun 28 08:04:37 <GeneralAntilles> yer mom?
Jun 28 08:04:48 <RST38h> No, really good guesses
Jun 28 08:05:28 <qwerty12> metalayer?
Jun 28 08:05:32 <qwerty12> hildon?
Jun 28 08:05:36 <qwerty12> maemo-launcher?
Jun 28 08:05:41 <RST38h> no, no
Jun 28 08:05:46 <qwerty12> wget -r www.freeporn.com?
Jun 28 08:05:47 <RST38h> Modest, what else!
Jun 28 08:05:53 <qwerty12> OH, MODEST!
Jun 28 08:05:56 <RST38h> Eating 319% CPU (according to load applet)
Jun 28 08:06:12 <GeneralAntilles> "Nokia is using your tablet to run the odds on horse racing"
Jun 28 08:06:26 <RST38h> Looks like it will be easier just to turn it off.
Jun 28 08:07:41 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody with a more inspired web design in them than me want to put together a message box for the wiki?
Jun 28 08:08:04 <GeneralAntilles> s/design/designer/
Jun 28 08:08:05 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Somebody with a more inspired web designer in them than me want to put together a message box for the wiki?
Jun 28 08:08:41 * RST38h does not let web designers into himself
Jun 28 08:09:25 <GeneralAntilles> Currently we've got this ugly yellow box: https://wiki.maemo.org/Template:100Days_agenda
Jun 28 08:09:53 <RST38h> Ok, a moment
Jun 28 08:10:08 <GeneralAntilles> Hopefully something than can be easily color-coded
Jun 28 08:10:15 <GeneralAntilles> and can have an icon swapped into it
Jun 28 08:11:11 <RST38h> <TABLE><TR><TD VALIGN=TOP><IMG SRC="icon"></TD><TD WIDTH="100%" VALIGN=TOP>Text</TD></TR></TABLE>
Jun 28 08:11:32 <RST38h> You can tweak it any way you like
Jun 28 08:11:42 <GeneralAntilles> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_messages/Maintenance#Articles_requiring_significant_attention_and_other_issues
Jun 28 08:11:51 <GeneralAntilles> I need design, not implementation. :P
Jun 28 08:12:20 <RST38h> it's a message box
Jun 28 08:12:33 <RST38h> it will have an icon on the left and text on the right
Jun 28 08:12:38 <GeneralAntilles> s'got no color!
Jun 28 08:13:13 <qwerty12> I always think color is a spelling mistake :/
Jun 28 08:13:41 <GeneralAntilles> You guys don't know how to spell.
Jun 28 08:13:45 <GeneralAntilles> :P
Jun 28 08:14:15 <qwerty12> I dunno, I kinda think American *English* is an contradiction :P
Jun 28 08:17:01 <qwerty12> Btw, timeless, thanks for your mirror of the diablo update repo, now I can get my nitro back.
Jun 28 08:30:01 <qwerty12> So, has anyone built microb-svn for diablo?
Jun 28 08:30:23 <GeneralAntilles> Not as far as I know.
Jun 28 08:30:30 <GeneralAntilles> I keep prodding Navi to do it, but he's lazy.
Jun 28 08:32:02 <qwerty12> Lol, I'll go for it later if someone else doesn't do it. There was an update yesterday but it will take a while for nokia (if ever) to release it by ssu :/
Jun 28 08:39:54 <Jaffa> I'll be very pleasantly surprised if Nokia release in-life updates. I suspect they'll release a big upgrade in one go, and just use SSU to prevent reflashing
Jun 28 08:40:28 <GeneralAntilles> That's my worry, too.
Jun 28 08:41:14 <qwerty12> I wouldn't like that. If nokia fixed bugs, I'd like to see the package with the bug in it updated, I wouldn't want to have to wait for the next upgrade.
Jun 28 08:41:59 <Jaffa> Of course, that's what *we'd* like. But it's easier to test the interoperation if they use their existing release testing process, rather than having to test upgrades for people will half of the new system already
Jun 28 08:43:09 <GeneralAntilles> What category should the official Nokia pages be in?
Jun 28 08:43:36 <GeneralAntilles> Offical? Nokia? Official Nokia?
Jun 28 08:45:51 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia it is.
Jun 28 08:47:00 <Jaffa> Nokia.
Jun 28 08:47:19 <doc|home> you forgot nokia official
Jun 28 08:47:27 <GeneralAntilles> Too late.
Jun 28 08:47:28 <GeneralAntilles> https://wiki.maemo.org/Template:Official
Jun 28 08:47:38 * doc|home watches his n800 collapse
Jun 28 08:47:57 <GeneralAntilles> Now just need qgil to get back to me with the logo.
Jun 28 08:58:24 <Jaffa> Oh, FFS. Abiword on Ubuntu just crashed - taking my unsaved document with it - when I tried "Format > Font..."
Jun 28 09:19:45 <X-Fade> Morning.
Jun 28 09:19:51 <qwerty12> Morning
Jun 28 09:20:46 <Jaffa> lo X-Fade
Jun 28 09:20:59 <wazd> hello all)
Jun 28 09:21:05 <Jaffa> X-Fade: uploaded vim package to diablo builder last night, but not got a response nearly 12 hours later
Jun 28 09:21:29 <X-Fade> Jaffa: How did you upload it?
Jun 28 09:21:39 <Jaffa> dput
Jun 28 09:21:51 <X-Fade> Ah, that thing ;)
Jun 28 09:21:56 <wazd> I just wanted to announce some good and not so exciting news :)
Jun 28 09:22:25 <Jaffa> wazd: ?
Jun 28 09:22:41 <qwerty12> New OMWeather actually coming out soon?
Jun 28 09:22:54 <wazd> We've decided to pull out Diablo fix for OMWeather as soon as possible (in one or two days) but 0.21 version will come a bit later :)
Jun 28 09:23:13 <qwerty12> Oh, ok, cool :)
Jun 28 09:23:18 <X-Fade> Jaffa: I only see a .changes file in the incoming-builder dir :)
Jun 28 09:23:50 <wazd> this was caused by so many feature implementations, that need to be cleaned up for seamless UX :)
Jun 28 09:24:01 <Jaffa> X-Fade: eh? how's that possible.
Jun 28 09:24:39 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Well, 2 options. 1 it got processed. (We leave the .changes) or 2. only the .changes got uploaded.
Jun 28 09:25:01 <X-Fade> But if it gets processed, it normally should mail you and the list.
Jun 28 09:25:11 <Jaffa> X-Fade: 2008-06-27 21:18 vim_7.0_source.upload, contents:
Jun 28 09:25:20 <Jaffa> Successfully uploaded vim_7.0.dsc to garage.maemo.org.
Jun 28 09:25:20 <Jaffa> Successfully uploaded vim_7.0.tar.gz to garage.maemo.org.
Jun 28 09:25:20 <Jaffa> Successfully uploaded vim_7.0_source.changes to garage.maemo.org.
Jun 28 09:25:32 <wazd> Sorry for a little delay :) BTW, http://omweather.garage.maemo.org ;)
Jun 28 09:25:43 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Yeah, so option 2 most likely ;)
Jun 28 09:25:51 <X-Fade> ehm 1 ;l)
Jun 28 09:25:58 * Jaffa checks the list
Jun 28 09:25:59 <qwerty12> wazd, Nice
Jun 28 09:26:10 <X-Fade> Jaffa: No vim there. Weird..
Jun 28 09:26:22 <Jaffa> X-Fade: I'll reupload.
Jun 28 09:26:47 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Ok, I'll try to find out if there is a log which tells me what happens.
Jun 28 09:27:01 <qwerty12> wazd, So, what is this Other Soon thing I see ;)
Jun 28 09:27:55 <Jaffa> X-Fade: ah, which is the file which triggers the build, .dsc or .changes? Since the vim source is a couple of meg it takes around 45 seconds to upload; what'd happen if the auto-builder ran during that time?
Jun 28 09:28:30 <wazd> well, a little splash about how new homepage will look like :) We've done a lot of work in here, really :)
Jun 28 09:28:39 * Jaffa has two suggestions: 1) it seems very susceptible to race conditions; 2) have a couple of jobs building things simulatenously to shorten queue waits; 3) have a status page with number of items in queue(s) etc.
Jun 28 09:28:48 <Jaffa> X-Fade: right, all re-uploaded
Jun 28 09:28:52 * Jaffa goes to have a shower
Jun 28 09:28:52 <X-Fade> Jaffa: .dsc, but we have at least a 5 minute wait after finding the .dsc when it fails.
Jun 28 09:29:03 <X-Fade> Before rejecting the package.
Jun 28 09:29:12 <X-Fade> And it is not in reject.
Jun 28 09:29:15 <Jaffa> X-Fade: hmm, OK.
Jun 28 09:29:29 * wazd goes to the classmates meeting :) Aw hell...
Jun 28 09:29:47 <X-Fade> Jaffa: But now I see your 3 files in the incoming-builder dir.
Jun 28 09:47:10 <X-Fade> Hmm it seems the indt guys have uploaded everything python related to diablo. Nice.
Jun 28 09:47:21 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Your build is now running.
Jun 28 09:48:01 <Jaffa> X-Fade: cool
Jun 28 09:48:09 <Jaffa> mgedmin should be pleased to have a vim.
Jun 28 09:49:20 <GeneralAntilles> https://wiki.maemo.org/Template:Official
Jun 28 09:50:39 <zap> okay, g_ether backported from 2.6.25 still does not work with Windows
Jun 28 09:50:48 <zap> which is sad news
Jun 28 09:52:01 <zap> hmm, I could forthport the driver from ITOS2007
Jun 28 09:57:16 <Jaffa> X-Fade: I'm going to start a design document for mud shortly, I think I've got a clear workflow in my head for its operation with the auto-builder.
Jun 28 09:57:50 <X-Fade> hehe vim - <up to 60 chars here> :)
Jun 28 09:58:17 <qwerty12> Naughty, naughty, someone didn't fill out description :p
Jun 28 09:58:34 <qwerty12> Then again, the bzip2 package doesn't have it and that was packaged by a nokia guy :p
Jun 28 10:08:14 <qwerty12> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroB#Some_MicroB_Plugins - updated with wmlbrowser plugin
Jun 28 10:09:58 <zap> Angstrom with kernel 2.6.23 works fine with WinXP
Jun 28 10:10:07 <zap> so it's a bug in musb
Jun 28 10:11:43 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody remember the maemowiki group for Nokia employees?
Jun 28 10:13:11 <GeneralAntilles> nokiaeditors
Jun 28 10:39:14 <Stskeeps> zap: checked if it's the correct module (the backported one) you load? i'm interested if you get the RNDIS thing fixed :P
Jun 28 10:49:31 <Jaffa> Hmm, there's supposed to be a description. Could be a mud bug
Jun 28 10:49:40 <qwerty12> Meh, I can see why Navi doesn't want to build microb-engine. The shit's full of dodgy patches that don't apply.
Jun 28 10:50:27 <Jaffa> *definitely* a mud bug: the section's not been set either
Jun 28 10:50:36 <Jaffa> X-Fade: still not got an email, though
Jun 28 10:50:43 <crashanddie> hey guys :)
Jun 28 10:50:55 <qwerty12> Hi
Jun 28 11:04:54 <GeneralAntilles> OK, this is pretty cool so far: https://wiki.maemo.org/Template:Task
Jun 28 11:05:29 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody want to find me a matched set of "proposed", "accepted", "ongoing", and "completed" images for it?
Jun 28 11:05:44 <GeneralAntilles> Think something like this for completed: http://static.wikipedia.org/new/wikipedia/en/articles/t/i/c/Image~Tick_green_modern.svg_1286.html
Jun 28 11:05:45 <aquatix> GeneralAntilles: maybe launchpad has some?
Jun 28 11:09:32 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: if its on Wikipedia, it should be public domain (or CC, but prolly PD for a base image)
Jun 28 11:09:36 <rm_you> can't we just USE that?
Jun 28 11:09:50 <GeneralAntilles> We can, but I need a complete matched set.
Jun 28 11:09:52 <GeneralAntilles> That's just one. :P
Jun 28 12:02:10 <rm_you> damn, i caved and went to the store :(
Jun 28 12:02:23 <rm_you> all it took was 2 days of nothing but water and cheese
Jun 28 12:03:20 <GAN800> . . .
Jun 28 12:03:33 <GAN800> That's what delivery is for.
Jun 28 12:04:13 <gourdin> hi
Jun 28 12:04:13 <Jaffa> X-Fade: just got the two failure messages.
Jun 28 12:04:38 <gourdin> why the update manager have to have the n801 connected in order to download the update ?
Jun 28 12:04:44 <Jaffa> GAN800: nice templates
Jun 28 12:04:58 <sp3000> GeneralAntilles: cheat and pick colors and random unicode chars? :)
Jun 28 12:05:01 * Jaffa goes to bed for a couple of hours to try and shake this migraine
Jun 28 12:05:23 <gourdin> the update manager seems to be like the rest of this thing
Jun 28 12:05:28 <gourdin> "not finished"
Jun 28 12:05:29 <GAN800> Thank wikipedia. Wish I had something a little more original.
Jun 28 12:06:31 <GAN800> I need to poke at them some more to get the right image better aligned with the right edge.
Jun 28 12:07:00 <GAN800> gourdin, yeah, that's kinda the point.
Jun 28 12:07:22 <gourdin> GAN800: ?
Jun 28 12:07:42 <GAN800> If you want the completely consumer-ready product, wait for step 5.
Jun 28 12:07:53 <gourdin> step 5 ?
Jun 28 12:08:00 <aquatix> erm, if you want to download something, you want to be connected right?
Jun 28 12:08:09 <GAN800> Besides, what's the problem with having the device plugged in?
Jun 28 12:08:16 <aquatix> or are you talking about flashing over usb
Jun 28 12:08:26 <aquatix> that's ancient history as of diablo :)
Jun 28 12:08:36 <GAN800> Windows, aquatix.
Jun 28 12:08:47 <gourdin> GAN800: what's step 5
Jun 28 12:09:16 <GAN800> gourdin, the consumer-ready tablet. We're on step 3
Jun 28 12:09:21 <gourdin> ???
Jun 28 12:09:36 <gourdin> who is 'We'
Jun 28 12:10:04 <gourdin> GAN800: you know that I gave money for this ?
Jun 28 12:10:09 <GAN800> Nevermind. It's not important. Procede with your bitching.
Jun 28 12:10:15 <gourdin> bitching ?
Jun 28 12:10:18 <lcuk> we are legion
Jun 28 12:10:21 <gourdin> what bitchin ?
Jun 28 12:10:27 <aquatix> we are the borg
Jun 28 12:10:35 <aquatix> i think we have a language problem here :)
Jun 28 12:10:38 <crashanddie> Resistance is futile
Jun 28 12:10:41 <gourdin> =)
Jun 28 12:10:51 <lcuk> :D heh, shopping time
Jun 28 12:10:58 <aquatix> lcuk: hf
Jun 28 12:11:01 <rm_you> gourdin: just realize you are not talking to Nokia employees for the most part, we are just other people who use and love our n800/n810s
Jun 28 12:11:20 <crashanddie> Your life as it has been is over.
Jun 28 12:11:30 <crashanddie> From this time forward, you will service: us.
Jun 28 12:11:31 * aquatix has been assimilated
Jun 28 12:11:36 <gourdin> rm_you: I realize that
Jun 28 12:11:52 <crashanddie> Lower your shields and surrender your ships.
Jun 28 12:11:55 * aquatix is one with the system
Jun 28 12:11:55 <gourdin> rm_you: "open source"
Jun 28 12:12:05 <gourdin> "free to modify your shit"
Jun 28 12:12:08 <gourdin> :(
Jun 28 12:12:13 <crashanddie> We will add your biological and technological distinctivenesses to our own.
Jun 28 12:12:21 <rm_you> gourdin: just letting you know, as my first impression of you is "hostile", which doesn't make me want to devote a whole lot of effort to helping oyu
Jun 28 12:12:24 <crashanddie> Your culture will adapt to service: us.
Jun 28 12:12:27 <rm_you> though that may be a language issue...
Jun 28 12:12:48 <gourdin> rm_you: :)
Jun 28 12:12:51 <gourdin> I'm not hostile
Jun 28 12:12:53 <crashanddie> me ? Likey star trek ? Nooooo
Jun 28 12:13:08 <gourdin> I'm disappointed
Jun 28 12:13:24 <gourdin> I buy this thing 400$+
Jun 28 12:13:34 <gourdin> and it really don't work very well
Jun 28 12:13:42 <rm_you> what about it doesn't work for you?
Jun 28 12:13:44 <crashanddie> lcuk, say, there hasn't been any new torchwood has there ? I had up to end series 2, I can't seem to find anything new, miright ?
Jun 28 12:13:55 <rm_you> crashanddie: you like torchwood? >_>
Jun 28 12:14:05 <crashanddie> sure
Jun 28 12:14:13 <rm_you> crashanddie: I tried my hardest, but jack turned into... not jack.... and the show was completely different
Jun 28 12:14:13 <crashanddie> I love it
Jun 28 12:14:15 * aquatix has to watch some more Doctor Who first :(
Jun 28 12:14:21 <gourdin> rm_you: browser crash a lot
Jun 28 12:14:23 <aquatix> otherwise i know too much
Jun 28 12:14:27 <rm_you> it seemed kinda lame :(
Jun 28 12:14:29 <gourdin> flash is unsusable
Jun 28 12:14:35 <aquatix> torchwood seems rather cool
Jun 28 12:14:40 <rm_you> gourdin: how is the flash unusable?
Jun 28 12:14:52 <gourdin> rm_you: _slow_
Jun 28 12:14:57 <rm_you> gourdin: there are some things you can do to help with the browser issue...
Jun 28 12:15:00 <aquatix> the browser on my n810 hasn't crashed, ever
Jun 28 12:15:07 <gourdin> aquatix: lier :)
Jun 28 12:15:15 <rm_you> gourdin: you have an n810?
Jun 28 12:15:19 <gourdin> rm_you: yep
Jun 28 12:15:22 * aquatix plonks gourdin 
Jun 28 12:15:28 <crashanddie> rm_you, I guess this is quite a personal opinion in the end, but the show appeals to me. I like the characters, I love the character development, I love the atmosphere, I love the hints to Dr Who
Jun 28 12:15:42 <aquatix> but it helps that i disabled flash etc by default i guess
Jun 28 12:15:50 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: I remember fanoush's kernel has MMC speed improvements, did those make their way upstream to the mainline kernel yet?
Jun 28 12:16:13 <rm_you> crashanddie: maybe I just haven't seen enough :/
Jun 28 12:16:17 <GAN800> rm_you, they aren't approved by TI
Jun 28 12:16:23 <rm_you> GAN800: so, no
Jun 28 12:16:39 <GAN800> Can lead to instability aand data loss on some units.
Jun 28 12:16:44 <rm_you> hrm
Jun 28 12:16:47 <crashanddie> rm_you, series two is definitely worth watching. Series two really goes very deep into certain characters. Even though I'll admit, series 1 can be a bit frustrating.
Jun 28 12:16:50 <gourdin> I think selling a thing like this and saying that the "community will take care of the soft" is a dead end
Jun 28 12:16:52 <rm_you> would you recommend he try it?
Jun 28 12:17:09 <crashanddie> gourdin, why is that ?
Jun 28 12:17:14 <rm_you> gourdin: well, that's one of the main reasons *I* bough tit
Jun 28 12:17:15 <crashanddie> gourdin, we've had tons of awesome software
Jun 28 12:17:24 <rm_you> s/bough tit/bought it/
Jun 28 12:17:24 <infobot> rm_you meant: gourdin: well, that's one of the main reasons *I* bought it
Jun 28 12:17:26 <gourdin> =))
Jun 28 12:17:32 * aquatix bought it for community software too
Jun 28 12:17:33 <gourdin> crashanddie: for "free'
Jun 28 12:17:43 <gourdin> I can't bitch if the soft isn't ready
Jun 28 12:17:50 <gourdin> because "you' do it for free
Jun 28 12:17:56 <crashanddie> because you can when it's not ?
Jun 28 12:18:00 <gourdin> yes
Jun 28 12:18:04 <crashanddie> ok...
Jun 28 12:18:05 <aquatix> myeah, but i think the software shipped on the tablet already is quite good
Jun 28 12:18:15 <crashanddie> when's the last time you called up Microsoft to yell at them to say their OS blows ?
Jun 28 12:18:18 <aquatix> especially with diablo now
Jun 28 12:18:25 <rm_you> yeah, the base software really is quite stable and usable...
Jun 28 12:18:31 <gourdin> crashanddie: microsoft os don't blows, that's a troll :)
Jun 28 12:18:32 <rm_you> it just depends how much more you want to get out of it
Jun 28 12:18:33 * GAN800 thinks gourdin's internal flash is probably corrupt.
Jun 28 12:18:40 <crashanddie> gourdin, ok, bad example
Jun 28 12:18:53 <gourdin> crashanddie: and you work isn't free
Jun 28 12:18:53 <crashanddie> gourdin, when is the last time you called up motorola because their bluetooth implementation blows ?
Jun 28 12:18:54 <gourdin> I'm a dev
Jun 28 12:18:56 <gourdin> please
Jun 28 12:18:57 <rm_you> crashanddie: i did that about a month ago actually
Jun 28 12:19:09 <gourdin> let me work for money
Jun 28 12:19:11 <gourdin> =)
Jun 28 12:19:20 <crashanddie> gourdin, I'm a dev, too, what the hell is that for a troll argument
Jun 28 12:19:24 <rm_you> crashanddie: called Microsoft to yell at them... not the bluetooth thing :P
Jun 28 12:19:35 <crashanddie> rm_you, yeah, that's one of my hobbies too, actually
Jun 28 12:19:36 <crashanddie> :D
Jun 28 12:19:37 <rm_you> I like my motorola's bluetooth <_<
Jun 28 12:19:57 * aquatix hasn't had a motorola phone since the one he bought in 1998
Jun 28 12:19:58 <rm_you> rather, just never had problems with it
Jun 28 12:20:12 * rm_you loves his V360
Jun 28 12:20:22 <crashanddie> gourdin, I work and dev for money, I just like the idea of being able to create stuff that people will be able to enjoy
Jun 28 12:20:24 * aquatix loves his sony ericsson m600i
Jun 28 12:20:29 <aquatix> nice companion to my n810
Jun 28 12:20:37 <crashanddie> gourdin, if you don't like the concept of Open Source, why the hell did you buy the NIT in the first place ?
Jun 28 12:21:00 <gourdin> crashanddie: I don't say I don't like the consept, I'm trying to understand it
Jun 28 12:21:01 <crashanddie> It's not like a simple google search wouldn't have enlightened you on the fact that basically *all* the software is community driven
Jun 28 12:21:13 <crashanddie> gourdin, it's about choice, really
Jun 28 12:21:16 <rm_you> gourdin: again, it seems like you just want to bitch, not understand <_<
Jun 28 12:21:20 <rm_you> and I'm trying to help you
Jun 28 12:21:30 <gourdin> rm_you: how ?
Jun 28 12:21:55 <gourdin> rm_you: I'm not bitching
Jun 28 12:22:01 <gourdin> I'm in a crysis
Jun 28 12:22:10 <gourdin> =)
Jun 28 12:22:19 <crashanddie> gourdin, trust me, I make a living out of sw development. And I think a few of us here do, too. We just enjoy challenging ourselves into creating *good* software, that is adapted to a certain piece of hardware/architecture. It is a challenge to create light, but yet usable, and suitable software.
Jun 28 12:22:19 <gourdin> I'm using linux for 10 years now
Jun 28 12:22:26 <rm_you> gourdin: well, if you are a dev, and you're comfortable installing a new kernel, you can install fanoush's kernel which has improvements to MMC read/write speed
Jun 28 12:22:47 <rm_you> I can dig up a link somewhere
Jun 28 12:23:10 <rm_you> gourdin: also, open Control Panel -> Memory, and see if you have Swap enabled
Jun 28 12:23:24 <rm_you> that can help with the browser crashing (which usually happens when it runs out of memory)
Jun 28 12:23:36 <crashanddie> gourdin, the NIT basically is like our secret garden. We are allowed to do whatever we please, as long as it pleases us. If other people don't like it, who cares, we did it for ourselves. If people like it, and pick it up, so much the better, we did something good.
Jun 28 12:24:42 <gourdin> crashanddie: ok, that's nice but you are selling the thing
Jun 28 12:24:54 <crashanddie> I'm not selling anything
Jun 28 12:25:01 <gourdin> ok, nokia sell it
Jun 28 12:25:05 <gourdin> you dev for free
Jun 28 12:25:11 <rm_you> gourdin: alternatively, you could try a different browser, for instance Midori (which uses GTK/Webkit IIRC), or fennec / minefield, which is a mozilla port
Jun 28 12:25:11 <crashanddie> yeah, so ?
Jun 28 12:25:24 <rm_you> gourdin: we don't get commission or anything...
Jun 28 12:25:29 <crashanddie> gourdin, how is that different from buying a Dell computer pre-installed with Linux/Ubuntu ?
Jun 28 12:26:03 <gourdin> don't know
Jun 28 12:27:03 <crashanddie> gourdin, so you'd rather get a tablet with a proprietary OS on it, and buy proprietary software, so you can yell at the guy (who will or will not do anything about it), just for the sake of yelling ?
Jun 28 12:27:03 <gourdin> I don't understand
Jun 28 12:27:14 <gourdin> crashanddie: :))
Jun 28 12:27:17 <rm_you> gourdin: we're here to help you, and i'm going to say this one last time before I just give up: many (most) of your comments since coming here are simply derogatory, either at nokia or directly to us... I am here because I enjoy helping people, but you are making me not want to help you :(
Jun 28 12:27:48 <rm_you> and you have yet to respond to any of the things I suggested you do to improve your experience
Jun 28 12:29:13 <gourdin> rm_you: thx for the advices, I'm going to try a different browser
Jun 28 12:29:46 <gourdin> crashanddie: I think this is a bad place to have a discussion about the "open source concept"
Jun 28 12:29:56 <gourdin> sorry if I bothered you
Jun 28 12:29:57 <crashanddie> Why so ?
Jun 28 12:30:05 <gourdin> and againg, thx for the feedback
Jun 28 12:30:15 <rm_you> gourdin: don't worry, me and lcuk argue every day about that :P
Jun 28 12:30:18 * rm_you prods lcuk 
Jun 28 12:30:28 <aquatix> lcuk was shopping
Jun 28 12:30:34 <gourdin> crashanddie: =)
Jun 28 12:30:55 <crashanddie> rm_you, lcuk's case is a bit different, from what I gathered
Jun 28 12:31:02 <gourdin> crashanddie: rm_you said 10 times that I'm rude
Jun 28 12:31:15 <gourdin> I'm not rude, just questioning
Jun 28 12:31:18 <gourdin> =)
Jun 28 12:31:25 <macoute> how ready are the diablo extras-repositories?
Jun 28 12:31:25 <rm_you> yeah, i gathered from him that he has other needs.
Jun 28 12:31:29 <crashanddie> gourdin, I haven't spotted any rudeness, nor any misbehavior in your speech
Jun 28 12:31:30 <macoute> arent they being populated?
Jun 28 12:31:33 <aquatix> myeah, but the way you did so wasn't that friendly
Jun 28 12:31:33 <rm_you> macoute: getting there, not yet
Jun 28 12:31:41 <crashanddie> macoute, they're all up
Jun 28 12:31:50 <crashanddie> oh, sorry, misread that
Jun 28 12:31:52 * aquatix wanders off for some lunch
Jun 28 12:32:01 <gourdin> crashanddie: ho, thx :)
Jun 28 12:32:12 <gourdin> (I'm going to try diablo out)
Jun 28 12:32:19 <macoute> rm_you: ok, thanks
Jun 28 12:32:19 <gourdin> ++ guys
Jun 28 12:32:20 <aquatix> diablo is nice
Jun 28 12:32:28 <aquatix> gourdin: have fun!
Jun 28 12:32:32 * lcuk wonders what other needs he has
Jun 28 12:32:33 <gourdin> if not, be sure I'll be back !! :)
Jun 28 12:32:34 <gourdin> =)
Jun 28 12:32:37 <lcuk> im not quite shopping yet
Jun 28 12:32:40 <rm_you> lcuk: the need to eat
Jun 28 12:33:07 <lcuk> indeed
Jun 28 12:33:07 <rm_you> lcuk: since apparently you actually want to make a living on that program somehow (which I still don
Jun 28 12:33:09 <macoute> the urgent need to get s60 3rd edition to work with gammu
Jun 28 12:33:10 <aquatix> need for speed
Jun 28 12:33:11 <crashanddie> w00t at bittorrent, 1.3Mb/s
Jun 28 12:33:12 <crashanddie> :D
Jun 28 12:33:19 <rm_you> *don't quite see as realistic, but wish you the best of luck) :P
Jun 28 12:33:52 <lcuk> no, rm, i want to be able to hack and code and do this kind of stuff all day long
Jun 28 12:34:12 <lcuk> i enjoy making things work and hate wasting my daytime
Jun 28 12:34:52 <lcuk> this program is only a tiny part of it :)
Jun 28 12:35:31 <crashanddie> lcuk, I hear you
Jun 28 12:36:04 <lcuk> crashanddie, i built a quick little class tree last night: compiled first time and has what i expected it to have
Jun 28 12:36:17 <crashanddie> nice :)
Jun 28 12:37:17 <lcuk> yer, just finding out what i have to do re inheritence and list tors
Jun 28 12:37:28 <lcuk> itera*
Jun 28 12:37:51 <crashanddie> class child : public father
Jun 28 12:38:02 <crashanddie> using stl lists ?
Jun 28 12:38:27 <lcuk> yer on both counts, but just feeling my way - never used templates
Jun 28 12:38:33 <crashanddie> std::list<mytype>::iterator i
Jun 28 12:38:59 <crashanddie> for (i = mylist.begin (); i != mylist.end (); i++);
Jun 28 12:39:07 <lcuk> or within a class with a children list defined children::iterator
Jun 28 12:40:33 <crashanddie> lcuk, didn't quite catch that
Jun 28 12:41:34 <rm_you> i may go to sleep early today
Jun 28 12:41:46 <rm_you> woke up 8 hours ago <_<
Jun 28 12:41:53 <lcuk> if you have already declared a variable as a typed list ie   std::list<panel> mychildren;     then the iterator can be created by using children::iterator i; instead of std::list<panel> i;
Jun 28 12:42:19 * rm_you sleeps
Jun 28 12:42:26 <lcuk> gnite rm
Jun 28 12:42:36 <crashanddie> lcuk, yeah, sure, but I prefer to be a little bit more verbose
Jun 28 12:43:00 <crashanddie> lcuk, considering there's quite a few differences between how an iterator behaves, depending if its a <list>::iterator or <vector>/<map>
Jun 28 12:43:31 <lcuk> :) i prefer to know im iterating round whatever type children was declared as: if i copy the block of code into another class with another children list i dont have to scan the code to check what type children holds
Jun 28 12:43:57 <crashanddie> You do have a point
Jun 28 12:44:41 <lcuk> though with multiple inheritence i shouldnt have to worry about that :)
Jun 28 12:45:22 <lcuk> as i said, just playing
Jun 28 12:45:44 <lcuk> i got rose by the way :)
Jun 28 12:46:39 <crashanddie> heh
Jun 28 12:48:38 <lcuk> anyway, we are ready now, off shopping
Jun 28 12:49:30 <crashanddie> lcuk, have fun
Jun 28 12:49:40 <lcuk> :|
Jun 28 13:18:15 <macoute> mediaserv is not currently under any development, right?
Jun 28 13:22:37 <GAN800> Currently? No. Currently I believe the developer is sleeping. :p
Jun 28 13:29:16 <macoute> GAN800: but there hasnt been any version updates since the end of last year
Jun 28 13:29:26 <macoute> i couldnt find the stats for svn, though
Jun 28 13:31:14 <gourdin> anyone using flashblocker here ?
Jun 28 13:31:38 <gourdin> it doesn't seem to work here (using diablo)
Jun 28 13:42:55 <gourdin> hmmm
Jun 28 13:43:01 <gourdin> diablo crashed
Jun 28 13:43:12 <gourdin> brownser full screen => email alert
Jun 28 13:43:17 <gourdin> freeze
Jun 28 13:44:33 <gourdin> t'wasn't an email alert
Jun 28 13:44:44 <gourdin> something blinked top left of the screen
Jun 28 13:44:53 <gourdin> the top left blud led blinked
Jun 28 13:45:10 <gourdin> wans't able to use the table, had to power down / up
Jun 28 13:49:27 <crashanddie> gourdin, never had that problem, any info on reproducing it ?
Jun 28 13:50:12 <Cptnodegard> great. osso backup keeps crashing every time i try to take a backup
Jun 28 13:50:14 <Cptnodegard> nice irony
Jun 28 13:52:30 <crashanddie> Cptnodegard, make sure you have enough space on the device you're trying to back up to
Jun 28 13:54:26 <Cptnodegard> crashanddie, i do. tried both SD cards, and a reboot. internal card has 6.3GB free, external has 8,47 free
Jun 28 13:54:50 <crashanddie> hmm
Jun 28 13:55:24 <crashanddie> Cptnodegard, try to be minimalistic when selecting the things you want to backup, then work your way to higher grounds (bigger selection)
Jun 28 13:55:50 <Cptnodegard> i want to jump to diablo but two things bother me: installing all the shit again, and most importantly: seen people have trouble with "installation package missing". anyone know what thats about?
Jun 28 13:57:38 <gourdin> crashanddie: nop, I can't reproduce it
Jun 28 13:58:17 <crashanddie> Cptnodegard, didn't have any problem, and most (if not all) of your packages will be reinstalled if the backup is done correctly
Jun 28 13:58:59 <Cptnodegard> does the backup save settings from third party apps?
Jun 28 13:59:27 <crashanddie> Don't know/don't think so
Jun 28 14:00:22 <Cptnodegard> osso backup crashes even if i choose only settings
Jun 28 14:25:06 <gourdin> hmm, guys, you just didn't put diablo out without any apps, do you ?
Jun 28 14:25:31 <aquatix> we didn't do anything :)
Jun 28 14:25:33 <gourdin> (I'm asking becaue I can't install ssh client, xournal ... )
Jun 28 14:25:55 <aquatix> that's because it looks for the diablo repository
Jun 28 14:26:01 <gourdin> ho
Jun 28 14:26:01 <aquatix> most chinook apps will still work
Jun 28 14:26:05 <aquatix> sec...
Jun 28 14:26:28 <aquatix> in application manager, go to catalogues
Jun 28 14:26:35 <aquatix> edit maemo extras
Jun 28 14:26:55 <gourdin> yep ?
Jun 28 14:26:56 <aquatix> and add 'chinook diablo' to the Distribution field [without quotes of course]
Jun 28 14:27:17 <gourdin> ok, i'll try
Jun 28 14:27:18 <gourdin> thx !
Jun 28 14:28:00 <aquatix> you're welcome
Jun 28 14:42:06 <NullM0dem> anyone try canola on diablo?
Jun 28 14:43:32 <Jaffa> macoute: I'm not doing anything in mediaserv atm; got anything you'd like to see?
Jun 28 14:46:16 * Jaffa has some patches to merge and there're a couple of bugs - possibly in Perl's threading - and I'm not using it much at the moment. tablet-encode's had some upgrades which, of course, mediaserv benefits from as well (better quality, greater configurability)
Jun 28 14:48:21 <Jaffa> I did start playing with a rewrite to avoid the problems with Perl's threaidng, but it didn't get that far.
Jun 28 15:05:46 <Jaffa> X-Fade/GeneralAntilles: any idea why the wiki doesn't show footnotes at the bottom of the page like wikipedia?
Jun 28 15:06:37 <Jaffa> e.g. http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jaffa/mud_design
Jun 28 15:07:34 <oilinki> hi, would 7GB be enought for kubuntu root partition and all system stuff?
Jun 28 15:10:20 <oilinki> oh. wrong channel again...sorry
Jun 28 15:52:21 <crashanddie> is this really too ugly: 		for (j = (i ? i : 0) * (SPECTRUM_BUFFER_SIZE / NUMBER_O_BANDS); j < SPECTRUM_BUFFER_SIZE; j++) ?
Jun 28 15:54:09 <pupnik_> what are you working-on crashanddie
Jun 28 15:54:19 <crashanddie> you'll see in a bit :)
Jun 28 15:54:38 <mgedmin> waaaah my eyes my eyes
Jun 28 15:54:46 <mgedmin> yes it is
Jun 28 15:54:53 <lcuk> crash, yes thats uglier than an old man wearing a frilly dress and trying to chat you up
Jun 28 15:55:30 <lcuk> hi pupnik_ :) nice to see you as always
Jun 28 15:55:30 <qwerty12> Does this happen a lot up North?
Jun 28 15:55:34 <mgedmin> when is (i ? i :0) not equivalent to just i?
Jun 28 15:55:44 <mgedmin> other than when i is a macro that expands to x++?
Jun 28 15:56:02 <lcuk> (i) would equate to true if its not 0,
Jun 28 15:56:27 <sp3000> this is in the callback on_pigs_flying()
Jun 28 15:56:31 <crashanddie> oh, hang on
Jun 28 15:56:33 <crashanddie> that's a bug :D
Jun 28 15:56:37 <lcuk> qwerty12, not usually, but after what i saw in manchester today im not sure
Jun 28 15:56:51 <crashanddie> (i ? i : 1)
Jun 28 15:56:54 <crashanddie> better
Jun 28 15:57:01 <qwerty12> lcuk, heh, sounds scary :/
Jun 28 15:57:36 <mgedmin> the ability for a bug to easily hide in that monstrosity of an expression should be a hint
Jun 28 15:57:50 * mgedmin lightly taps crashanddie with a cluebat
Jun 28 15:57:56 <lcuk> im sure theres some cosplay convention on - i saw loads of anime at the trainstation
Jun 28 15:59:01 <pupnik_> hi lcuk, likewise
Jun 28 15:59:34 <lcuk> hey pupnik_ :) i released a binary of liqbase.  to me the technology is proven.  im happy with what i can make this do graphically
Jun 28 16:07:45 <bedboi> hi there.
Jun 28 16:09:44 <lcuk> pupnik, there was a guy in a couple of days ago wanting to get involved with maemo
Jun 28 16:10:01 <pupnik> o..k..
Jun 28 16:10:03 <lcuk> he wanted to try to get ngeo or something
Jun 28 16:10:42 <lcuk> i pointed him over towards your site and he seemed happy
Jun 28 16:11:21 <pupnik> good deal, what was the nickname?>
Jun 28 16:12:00 <lcuk> just hunting now
Jun 28 16:12:14 <tank-man> ipeefreely :)
Jun 28 16:12:21 <qwerty12> ipeefreely?
Jun 28 16:13:03 <tank-man> maybe it was lance upercut or max power
Jun 28 16:13:08 <qwerty12> Heh
Jun 28 16:15:25 <lcuk> Jun 25 23:00:27 <kkrusty>	lcuk: Well for instance I would've wanted to work on gngeo but 1) I cant seem to get the source 2) Im not sure the project is active either. Asking here would've been better if for instance some person actually needs people for his projects (which happens a lot in OSS). But I'll follow your suggestion...
Jun 28 16:16:08 <bedboi> is there any library for managing http downloads available in the maemo framework?
Jun 28 16:16:53 <bedboi> (similar to curl)
Jun 28 16:29:13 <crashanddie> bedboi, isn't curl ported ?
Jun 28 16:29:26 <bedboi> yep i guess.
Jun 28 16:29:38 <bedboi> i was wondering if something is already developed in the framework
Jun 28 16:29:43 <bedboi> just not to add a dependency
Jun 28 16:30:34 <crashanddie> I hardly think cURL should be seen as a nasty dependency
Jun 28 16:31:11 <Veggen> why do double work and develop "in the framework" ?
Jun 28 16:32:12 <Veggen> I prefer ITOS to be as vanilla as possible, and only develop custom stuff for infrastructure things where it actually makes sense :)
Jun 28 16:35:37 <lcuk> bedboi, "in the framework", you mean an interface into the browser, or pre-installed?
Jun 28 16:35:55 <bedboi> nope, i mean in meamo libraries
Jun 28 16:36:37 <lcuk> but the only thing that handles html is the browser isnt it?
Jun 28 16:36:58 <lcuk> http^
Jun 28 16:37:36 <qwerty12> I'd just use [lib]curl/wget
Jun 28 16:38:54 <lcuk> same here
Jun 28 16:39:29 <jott> i suppose "in the framework" means, "easy to bind to progressbars", "consistent callbacks when finished", "easy to thread", etc...
Jun 28 16:47:20 <bedboi> yep that's it
Jun 28 17:14:35 <qwerty12> Heh, I'm buliding microb-svn and I see it building libpr0n :p
Jun 28 17:16:56 <RST38bis> have you checked tthe xsourcee code? ;)
Jun 28 17:17:27 <qwerty12> xsaucy eh? sounds fun :P
Jun 28 17:21:43 <jott> RST38bis: XGetPr0nImage() ? ;)
Jun 28 17:21:43 <qwerty12> Bye.
Jun 28 17:22:56 <RST38bis> XQueryPronPointer
Jun 28 17:31:36 <gpd> GeneralAntilles: have you ever had any problems with your iBlue 737 dropping BT connection to the tablet?
Jun 28 17:32:02 <gpd> I was hoping that Diablo would just fix my problem with connection dropping in maemo-mapper - but no such luck.
Jun 28 17:35:17 <gpd> hmm. searching the logs I think I asked you that before and you said no problems. bummer
Jun 28 17:37:41 <RST38bis> what is between tablet and gps?
Jun 28 18:04:54 <pupnik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1wnOUH2jk8  creepy music video, awesome song imo
Jun 28 18:33:05 <vetetix> hi everyone
Jun 28 18:33:39 <vetetix> since i upgraded to diablo, i can't install any "one click install" application
Jun 28 18:33:44 <vetetix> is it normal ?
Jun 28 18:33:53 <vetetix> for example, canola2
Jun 28 18:34:19 <vetetix> the link on the first page of maemo.org doesn't work
Jun 28 18:34:44 <RST38bis> yes
Jun 28 18:34:48 <vetetix> (the "one click install" on the canola2)
Jun 28 18:34:56 <vetetix> RST38bis, how so ?
Jun 28 18:35:12 <RST38bis> you should go to repo list in app manager
Jun 28 18:35:22 <vetetix> yes
Jun 28 18:35:29 <RST38bis> find extras repo, select edit
Jun 28 18:35:44 <vetetix> yes
Jun 28 18:35:57 <RST38bis> change diablo to chinook, then try installing again
Jun 28 18:36:27 <vetetix> thanks, i'll try with this
Jun 28 18:38:54 <vetetix> yeah, seems to work, thanks
Jun 28 18:51:06 <mpeterson> I can't seem to find the package that has mkfs.ext2 since I've upgraded to diablo, can anyone help me please?
Jun 28 18:53:38 <zap> Anybody can tell me what's the ultimate source for the musb_hdrc driver?
Jun 28 18:54:02 <zap> On linux.omap.com I can find only ancient kernels like 2.6.14
Jun 28 18:55:36 <sp3000> random word association and google suggest says http://www.google.com/search?q=linux-omap+git could be of interest
Jun 28 18:59:34 <tlax> hmm.. the scratchbox-installer script doesn't check for disk space :P
Jun 28 19:03:12 <Andy80> hi all
Jun 28 19:03:50 <Andy80> I'm using N810 with latest diablo image and Maemo Mapper 2.4.1. mapper application crashes while it's downloading 11 Mb maps from google... how can I know why does it crash?
Jun 28 19:08:31 <lcuk> andy80, if you run mapper through the terminal you should get more information on whats happening and maybe what the problem is
Jun 28 19:08:42 <Andy80> ok, I'll try now
Jun 28 19:14:33 <megosdog> Hey, does anyone know of there's an easy way to get a complete copy of the maemo mapper database for either google maps or virtual earth from level 20 down to level 4 for the US already compressed and ready to use?  I want to essentially just drop a ready to use database into the n810 I have and use it like that rather than needing to be online to use it.
Jun 28 19:15:34 <lcuk> megosdog, i think google has that database available, you can download it from http://maps.google.com
Jun 28 19:15:57 <lcuk> but be warned, the filesize will be quite big ;)
Jun 28 19:16:06 <Veggen> megosdog: you *can* do batch downloads in maemo mapper.
Jun 28 19:16:21 <Veggen> ( to cache it)
Jun 28 19:17:38 <megosdog> Yeah, I saw that, but it's giving me a rediculously *HUGE* megabyte number to do anything larger than a few counties.
Jun 28 19:18:15 <lcuk> what do you expect, the US is a ridiculously large area
Jun 28 19:18:40 <Andy80> lcuk: I try to paste somewhere in pastebin, wait...
Jun 28 19:20:19 <Andy80> lcuk: http://pastebin.com/m4dcc838f
Jun 28 19:21:34 <Veggen> btw, anyone tried compiling http://www.tangogps.org/gps/ for the tablet?
Jun 28 19:24:32 <Andy80> Veggen: don't know, but I think it could run on Maemo without problems
Jun 28 19:26:12 <Veggen> looked like it shouldn't be too hard, no. I'm into openstreetmap, and is interested in looking at what help tangoGPS will give me on the way. Some fork/superset of maemo mapper with osm extensions would be awesome. I'd like to actually draw/make notes in the map, to help me remember when I get home ;)
Jun 28 19:28:35 <Andy80> openstreetmap is a good idea... but for the moment it's missing too much streets to be usable :(
Jun 28 19:28:53 <Veggen> Andy80: you can help, you know :)
Jun 28 19:36:28 <megosdog> Well, oddly enough, out of all the map systems, VE is the best quality.  You don't have to zoom in really close to get the street names.  You can see a wider area and still get street names.
Jun 28 19:38:07 <Andy80> Veggen: do you want a good news :) ?
Jun 28 19:38:37 <Veggen> Andy80: sure? ;)
Jun 28 19:38:50 <Andy80> Veggen: just 1 minute, please :)
Jun 28 19:39:53 <Andy80> Veggen: here is good news: http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8455/screenshotcg7.png :D
Jun 28 19:40:33 <Andy80> Veggen: just a simple: configure, make :)
Jun 28 19:41:09 <Veggen> hmm. Ok :)
Jun 28 19:41:35 <Veggen> I think I should really upgrade my scratchbox environment to Diablo first, though. Even though I *guess* the differences isn't that large.
Jun 28 19:41:57 <Andy80> I've tested it on upgraded Scratchbox
Jun 28 19:42:05 <Andy80> but I think it works on chinook too
Jun 28 19:42:18 <Andy80> well.. I could try to make a .deb too :)
Jun 28 19:53:30 <mysc> is it normal to have "menelaus 1-0072: Setting voltage 'VDCDC3' to 2800 mV" continuously added to dmesg and why?
Jun 28 20:11:45 <practisevoodoo> has anyone had any luck coding with PyBluez on the maemo? my progs run fine but it cant actually find any devices
Jun 28 20:21:59 * Jaffa un-Doctor Whos
Jun 28 20:23:19 <keesj> is there a qemu or vm image for the sdk?
Jun 28 20:24:09 <Jaffa> keesj: there's a VMware image of chinook
Jun 28 20:24:18 <sp3000> where's the auth for promoter documented?
Jun 28 20:25:28 <sp3000> https://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_extras is the closest I can find: #  Permission to promote, email XXXX@maemo.org
Jun 28 20:25:37 <Jaffa> sp3000: nowhere; it's been manual by X-Fade but someone on -dev today said it was going to be automated
Jun 28 20:26:22 <Jaffa> sp3000: yeah, I wrote that. If X-Fade's not awake here ping him via niels@maemo.org, but I dunno if that's the official process.
Jun 28 20:26:52 <sp3000> I don't have anything to promote :)
Jun 28 20:26:54 <Jaffa> TBH, I reckon putting his name there will either get it automated or a better email addr put in by him ;-)
Jun 28 20:27:12 * sp3000 is contemplating trying to answer that question on list
Jun 28 20:27:30 * sp3000 is contemplating coming up with something to build and promote, just to experience the pain first-hand
Jun 28 20:27:40 <Jaffa> :)
Jun 28 20:28:21 <Jaffa> You can use mud to build something trivial
Jun 28 20:28:35 * sp3000 would also be curious to see the sources to the magic delays and file handling order bits in the builder
Jun 28 20:29:23 <sp3000> the last answer to "my package failed to build four times mysteriously because of slow upload"  was something along the lines of "don't use dput or hack on dput"
Jun 28 20:29:27 <Jaffa> Yeah, I reckon there's some room for some improved algorithms in 'em, from what I've seen.
Jun 28 20:29:31 <keesj> write a deb that gets that information out of the system :p
Jun 28 20:29:33 * sp3000 finds that suboptimal, but actually knowing something about it would help
Jun 28 20:29:55 <Jaffa> Not using dput is a sign of a broken system IMHO
Jun 28 20:30:39 <Jaffa> But adding scp magic to mud to automate the workarounds would be trivial
Jun 28 20:31:22 <Jaffa> keesj: I've started http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jaffa/mud_design - I reckon there's still a place for mud
Jun 28 20:31:45 * sp3000 would expect that checking all files listed in a dsc for mtime < 1min and deferring if any would let you do away with any built in delays longer than 1min, but of course if there's an evil abstraction layer getting in the way of that, ...
Jun 28 20:31:45 <keesj> Jaffa: sorry for being negative on the list
Jun 28 20:31:46 <Jaffa> If nothing else, helping people follow the pkging policy
Jun 28 20:32:11 <Jaffa> keesj: no probs; it was a valid point
Jun 28 20:32:25 <Jaffa> sp3000: exactly.
Jun 28 20:33:13 <freelikegnu> hoho ubuntu "MID" edition is a hhot
Jun 28 20:33:16 <freelikegnu> *hoot
Jun 28 20:34:15 <freelikegnu> esp on a tablet PC...
Jun 28 20:34:32 <freelikegnu> like a 12" n810 :D
Jun 28 20:34:47 <freelikegnu> I need to get a bigger shirt pocket
Jun 28 20:35:35 <keesj> the n810 came with a "mount" I guess you can wear it using one of those golden necklaces
Jun 28 20:35:47 <keesj> blingbling
Jun 28 20:36:03 <freelikegnu> oh like musicians use for playing harmonica and guitar
Jun 28 20:36:34 <freelikegnu> if you had a bluetooth  harmonica style interface to control it
Jun 28 20:39:15 <sp3000> oh, you answered the same guy on another thread
Jun 28 20:39:26 * sp3000 mods his draft -1 redundant
Jun 28 20:50:42 <wazd> Hello all, Diablo fix is in the wild :)
Jun 28 20:53:47 <mysc> anyone know what causes repeated messages from menelaus about setting voltages?
Jun 28 21:00:48 <mysc> 272 people and no one can help?
Jun 28 21:01:55 <wazd> well, I can't in fact, sorry :( I'm the worst technican in whole maemo community :)
Jun 28 21:03:24 <wazd> Do you have Diablo or 2008?
Jun 28 21:03:28 <mysc> can you see if your dmesg has multiple voltage setting lines?
Jun 28 21:03:31 <mysc> os2008
Jun 28 21:04:29 <rm_you> mysc: mine always has
Jun 28 21:05:05 <rm_you> mysc: i think they all do... I'm not aware that it matters
Jun 28 21:05:12 <rm_you> it's just one of those things that it does
Jun 28 21:05:37 <mysc> ok, cause i recently dropped it and wanted to know if i screwed up some voltage regulator
Jun 28 21:08:15 <GAN800> Jaffa, the cite plugin isn't installed. I filled a bug, but I think it may have been lost in the chatter.
Jun 28 21:08:32 <Jaffa> GAN800: ah, right
Jun 28 21:08:54 <GAN800> mediawiki appears to be plugin hell. :D
Jun 28 21:09:28 <Jaffa> :)
Jun 28 21:10:01 <Jaffa> I've seen lots of software like this: it can do so much, it can't do anything.
Jun 28 21:11:01 * Jaffa votes, ups priority a little
Jun 28 21:12:37 <Jaffa> Nah, I'll leave "low"
Jun 28 21:13:28 <mysc> any hw diagnostic app for os08?
Jun 28 21:15:57 <rm_you> mysc: is anything visibly wrong with it?
Jun 28 21:16:04 <rm_you> mysc: has it been acting funny?
Jun 28 21:16:25 <rm_you> mysc: lots of people have dropped them, it doesnt really do much unless you THREW IT at the ground, from like 15+feet
Jun 28 21:16:37 <rm_you> I wouldn't worry about it unless it started acting funny
Jun 28 21:16:52 <Jaffa> NAFAIK
Jun 28 21:21:11 <mysc> rm_you thanks for the encouragement, nothing acting funny, no physical damage to exterior, fell about 1.5 meters onto a carpet
Jun 28 21:22:15 <Veggen> there. a 4.1 SDK installed.
Jun 28 21:23:07 <Veggen> (had forgotten what trick I used to get it to run under amd64, and since I hadn't actually used it since I installed it on this box in may, I decided to scratch and reinstall rather than upgrade)
Jun 28 21:26:33 <rm_you> mysc: lol, nothing at all to worry about... the device is solid state :) no moving parts to break
Jun 28 21:27:20 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody against deleting this? https://wiki.maemo.org/Getting_started_with_Sardine
Jun 28 21:27:38 <rm_you> lol
Jun 28 21:27:56 <lcuk> as long as you replace it with    https://wiki.maemo.org/Getting_started_with_Haddock
Jun 28 21:28:35 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, sardine is dead.  marius gave a eulogy in dev ml last week.
Jun 28 21:28:43 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I know. ;)
Jun 28 21:28:59 <mysc> heh rm_your, i'm ocd yes i am, yes i am
Jun 28 21:29:03 <mysc> :>
Jun 28 21:29:40 <lcuk> rm_you, actually, there are moving parts inside this device which can be severly effected by a fall
Jun 28 21:30:23 <lcuk> touchscreen has 2 layers with a small gap in the centre, and the 810 keyboard slide unit
Jun 28 21:30:48 <GeneralAntilles> Those don't qualify as "moving parts"
Jun 28 21:30:58 <lcuk> well if they get bent they wont move properly
Jun 28 21:31:05 <lcuk> hence "breaking" your machine
Jun 28 21:31:30 <GeneralAntilles> Sure, but they aren't "moving parts". A hard drive is a "moving part". :P
Jun 28 21:31:37 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: nuke with extreme prejudice
Jun 28 21:32:02 <lcuk> so long, and thanks for all the fish
Jun 28 21:32:21 <GeneralAntilles> Done.
Jun 28 21:33:15 <mysc> GA, so as long as touchscreen works after fall you'd say coast is clear
Jun 28 21:33:29 <GeneralAntilles> Unless something isn't working. . . .
Jun 28 21:33:42 <rm_you> lol\
Jun 28 21:34:20 <lcuk> mysc, reading your scrollback, do you know if the messages occured before the drop?
Jun 28 21:34:23 <mysc> everything seems to be working except that voltage shit in dmesg, rmyou said this is always there.
Jun 28 21:34:39 <mysc> i don't recall dmesg output before the fall
Jun 28 21:34:49 <derf> I've dropped my N800 a number of times, on hard surfaces.
Jun 28 21:34:55 <derf> Still works for me.
Jun 28 21:35:15 <lcuk> n810: OMG I've fallen off a table
Jun 28 21:35:21 <lcuk> n810: Deploying thumb keyboard
Jun 28 21:35:30 <lcuk> n810: Starting Map
Jun 28 21:35:37 <lcuk> n810: This is gonna hurt
Jun 28 21:35:42 <lcuk> n810: ouch!
Jun 28 21:36:09 <mysc> ok, i am going to test 3 meters now and no carpet and run dmesg again  (j/k)
Jun 28 21:37:37 <mysc> is there any ways to change the "radius" that maemo-mapper uses when you dl maps around your gps'd location? it seems to get a few tiles in each direction. i guess i could do area and then i'd need the coords of top-left and bottom-right (any trick on that?)
Jun 28 21:38:11 <derf> mysc: It pulls the coords from the area you're currently looking at.
Jun 28 21:38:44 <mysc> yes, but it only dl's a certain radius around that location. i want to extend that a bit
Jun 28 21:38:46 <derf> And recent versions do have a slider somewhere that lets you set how many extra maps it gets.
Jun 28 21:39:11 <derf> mysc: No, I mean the "Area" tab pulls the coords from what you're currently looking at.
Jun 28 21:39:27 <mysc> yeah, but how do i expand that "area"
Jun 28 21:39:31 <derf> Zoom out.
Jun 28 21:39:41 <mysc> that hasn't worked for me.
Jun 28 21:39:53 <mysc> will try again.
Jun 28 21:40:22 <derf> You still have to tell it to download the zoom levels you actually want.
Jun 28 21:40:53 <mysc> yeah, i'm giving it zoom level 1
Jun 28 21:47:31 <Jaffa> Hmm, on the maemo summit agenda: "What Maemo users want" by Reggie and Krisse
Jun 28 21:48:21 <GeneralAntilles> Should be interesting
Jun 28 21:50:06 <GeneralAntilles> sjgadsby, you seriously want me to use rtcomm's IRC component to test this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3334 :P
Jun 28 21:50:12 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody using rtcomm and IRC in Diablo?
Jun 28 21:52:33 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, ping.
Jun 28 21:54:21 <mysc> derf, was just being dumb about things, it works fine
Jun 28 21:55:39 <derf> Hooray.
Jun 28 21:56:18 * mysc does the macarena h0h0
Jun 28 21:58:51 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: pong
Jun 28 22:00:03 <GeneralAntilles> Login to the wiki and move this to your userspace. https://wiki.maemo.org/User:Generalantilles/rm_you
Jun 28 22:00:45 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: you can't do it?
Jun 28 22:01:05 <GeneralAntilles> You, apparently, don't exist yet.
Jun 28 22:01:11 <rm_you> ...
Jun 28 22:01:31 <rm_you> wtf?
Jun 28 22:01:47 <rm_you> did my account get deleted?
Jun 28 22:02:23 <GeneralAntilles> No
Jun 28 22:02:28 <GeneralAntilles> Just login and move it.
Jun 28 22:02:31 <GeneralAntilles> Cut'n'paste job.
Jun 28 22:02:35 <GeneralAntilles> User:Rm_you
Jun 28 22:02:38 <rm_you> i can't log in
Jun 28 22:02:40 <GeneralAntilles> Not article Rm_you
Jun 28 22:02:46 <GeneralAntilles> Use the Garage information?
Jun 28 22:02:58 <rm_you> Login error:
Jun 28 22:02:58 <rm_you> There is no user by the name "rm_you". Check your spelling.
Jun 28 22:03:13 <n800m> i'd try rm_me
Jun 28 22:03:30 <derf> n800m: I think someone did.
Jun 28 22:03:58 <rm_you> and I can't find the registration?
Jun 28 22:04:06 <GeneralAntilles> It uses the garage accounts.
Jun 28 22:04:09 <rm_you> ...
Jun 28 22:04:16 <rm_you> wtf
Jun 28 22:04:32 <GeneralAntilles> https://garage.maemo.org/account/register.php
Jun 28 22:04:39 <rm_you> ...
Jun 28 22:04:44 <rm_you> i have a garage account, thank you
Jun 28 22:04:55 <GeneralAntilles> Try rmyou maybe?
Jun 28 22:05:29 <rm_you> nope
Jun 28 22:05:43 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm, bug maybe. . . .
Jun 28 22:05:47 <rm_you> the whole maemo system hates me
Jun 28 22:05:50 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, ping.
Jun 28 22:05:56 <rm_you> first it wouldn't let me use my SVN
Jun 28 22:06:01 <rm_you> now this <_<
Jun 28 22:06:02 <practisevoodoo> has anyone had any luck coding with PyBluez on the maemo? my progs run fine but it cant actually find any devices
Jun 28 22:11:11 <Toba_> is it possible to take an image of the internal flash in my n810?  I know it's easy to flash, but I'd like to be able to undo *exactly* the flash/upgrade process
Jun 28 22:15:49 <Grackle> There is probably a way to do that, but it is not possible with the flasher utility. The easiest way to do that sort of thing would be to install to and boot from a system located on MMC, which you periodically back up using dd or somesuch.
Jun 28 22:16:09 <Grackle> That is the method that I use.
Jun 28 22:19:23 <sjgadsby> GeneralAntilles: Yep. I found that bug just to force you to use RTCOMM for IRC. *grin*
Jun 28 22:19:24 <rm_you> X-Fade: ping
Jun 28 22:21:32 <mysc> is everything flashed from nokia bin put in: /dev/mtdblock0 ?
Jun 28 22:21:45 <mysc> if so, one might consider dd if=/dev/mtdblock0 of=file.bin
Jun 28 22:22:02 <GeneralAntilles> mtdblock4 is rootfs
Jun 28 22:26:21 <mysc> were i to do dd if=/dev/mtdblock4 of=backup.bin and diff backup.bin $original_nokia.bin, would i get same file?
Jun 28 22:27:57 <Grackle> mysc, hmm, I was wondering if something like that might work. Try it and see..
Jun 28 22:29:28 <mysc> Grackle, yes, i was thinking out loud based on your and Toba's Q
Jun 28 22:29:46 <mysc> but i don't know how nokia's flasher writes the bin (i.e. to what devices)
Jun 28 22:31:01 <Grackle> Well you can use -r to write to the rootfs, which GA says is mtdblock4.
Jun 28 22:31:39 <GeneralAntilles> Well, -r will just flash the rootfs
Jun 28 22:31:48 <GeneralAntilles> But doesn't really let you write to it directly, per se.
Jun 28 22:36:05 <Grackle> Are you just making a semantic argument or are you saying that won't work in this context?
Jun 28 22:37:08 <GeneralAntilles> Semantic argument
Jun 28 22:38:58 <Grackle> Okay.
Jun 28 22:41:15 <lbt> how does the flasher access the flash area? Is it via a kernel API?
Jun 28 22:42:41 <lbt> I have a car stereo (empeg) that runs linux. Someone hacked the kernel to provide a /proc/flash which you could copy a file to and that would then be flashed.
Jun 28 22:43:21 <lbt> No need for a seperate flasher tool; just scp (or putty).
Jun 28 22:43:50 <GeneralAntilles> Well, you can put info onto the flash just fine with mtdblock tools
Jun 28 22:43:56 <GeneralAntilles> see fanoush's initfs flasher
Jun 28 22:44:19 <GeneralAntilles> More: http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/
Jun 28 22:44:20 <lbt> OK - just random thoughts really :)
Jun 28 22:44:28 <GeneralAntilles> The NOLO is involved with flashing.
Jun 28 22:44:37 <GeneralAntilles> Over USB
Jun 28 22:52:54 <lbt> thanks GeneralAntilles - makes sense - the mtd stuff is similar to what I meant (same goal).
Jun 28 22:53:06 <lbt> OK - enough for tonight.... g'night all...
Jun 28 22:53:16 <lcuk> gnite lbt
Jun 28 23:10:27 <kkrusty> what does this mean while building in scratchbox? sbox-i686-linux-g++: No such file or directory
Jun 28 23:10:48 <kkrusty> Im using the VM appliance by the way
Jun 28 23:24:48 * timelyx sighs
Jun 28 23:24:58 <timelyx> another reason i want planet.maemo.org not to be a redirect:
Jun 28 23:25:10 <timelyx> the ability to whitelist or blacklist scripts from it independently of maemo.org
Jun 28 23:28:02 <nikosapi> hello, is there a way to use a vpn on OS2008?
Jun 28 23:28:56 <timelyx> yes
Jun 28 23:29:51 <nikosapi> o rly?
Jun 28 23:30:16 <nikosapi> is it relatively simple?
Jun 28 23:34:48 <kkrusty> I have an app running in full screen in xephyr/scratchbox. How do I close it?
Jun 28 23:36:42 <kkrusty> anyone?
Jun 28 23:36:42 <timelyx> it's a simple google search away ... yes
Jun 28 23:38:09 <timelyx> GAN800: i'd have loved to know diablo was coming so i could have written relnotes..
Jun 28 23:38:24 <GeneralAntilles> How're they coming?
Jun 28 23:38:27 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, guenther.
Jun 28 23:38:51 <timelyx> i'm starving and days behind on scrollback.. i'll worry about them in a few (10?)hrs :)
Jun 28 23:39:06 <timelyx> i should be ready to ask for help in 12-16hrs :)
Jun 28 23:39:43 <guenther> heya GeneralAntilles
Jun 28 23:39:49 <timelyx> Jaffa: it's technically possible to rename sbox targets. i doubt there's a ui for it :)
Jun 28 23:39:57 <guenther> Fixed your typo bug. ;)
Jun 28 23:40:09 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe, thanks!
Jun 28 23:41:12 <gentooer> i have the customized high speed kernel installed on an ext2 partition on my internal SD card.. will upgrading to diablo be a problem?
Jun 28 23:41:14 <kkrusty> or am I expected to kill the process?
Jun 28 23:42:59 <guenther> GeneralAntilles: Like the changes to bugzilla?
Jun 28 23:43:11 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, it looks really nice.
Jun 28 23:43:15 <guenther> Did you have a look at planet already? ;)
Jun 28 23:43:23 <andre__> guenther: thanks, honey! ;-))
Jun 28 23:43:25 * guenther happy :-)
Jun 28 23:43:37 <acydlord> anyone tried the adobe air for linux alpha yet?
Jun 28 23:43:46 <guenther> my pleasure, andre__
Jun 28 23:44:24 <GeneralAntilles> Nope, didn't see the blog post yet.
Jun 28 23:46:45 * kkrusty thinks that its not a good time to ask for help
Jun 28 23:50:30 <timelyx> guenther: what did you do to bugzilla?
Jun 28 23:51:10 <guenther> timelyx: Improvements. :)
Jun 28 23:51:18 <timelyx> please clarify
Jun 28 23:51:30 <timelyx> most "improvements" i've heard of relating to bugzilla are merely bugs
Jun 28 23:51:37 <guenther> https://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/
Jun 28 23:51:44 <timelyx> (i'm used to custom hacks which were requested by PHBs)
Jun 28 23:52:08 <guenther> Some template nicening.
Jun 28 23:52:23 <guenther> And implemented bug 2035. Just as you wanted yourself. ;)
Jun 28 23:52:29 <timelyx> "Waiting for maemo.org..."
Jun 28 23:53:10 <timelyx> oh brother
Jun 28 23:53:14 <timelyx> you did me no favors
Jun 28 23:53:23 <timelyx> i'm going to demand that you answer all my bugmail in the future
Jun 28 23:53:31 <guenther> huh?
Jun 28 23:53:36 <timelyx> i've already gotten bad mail because of your change
Jun 28 23:53:40 <timelyx> ask andre__
Jun 28 23:54:04 <guenther> Come on, if you're talking to me -- talk to me.
Jun 28 23:54:21 <timelyx> i'm a few days in scrollback. i've already sent andre cc's on the mail
Jun 28 23:54:30 <timelyx> i'll forward them to you when i exit scrollback
Jun 28 23:54:58 <timelyx> but the short of it is that @bmo we have a "no obligation" note
Jun 28 23:55:02 <timelyx> and you seem to have lost that
Jun 28 23:55:17 <timelyx> so now i have a "customer" saying "shouldn't you be nicer, aren't i paying your salary?"
Jun 28 23:55:30 <timelyx> i should be nice and delete myself from bugs.maemo.org. and i told him as much.
Jun 28 23:55:46 <Robot101> this bug must be marked as PRE_SMOKED before you can tag it BONGHITS and accepted by the QA contact into SMOKED before being reassigned to the tester and marked as RELEASED by the first born son of your line manager
Jun 28 23:56:09 <guenther> timelyx: Don't think I get you...
Jun 28 23:56:11 <Robot101> and you must write Fixed into you changelog, not fixed
Jun 28 23:56:24 <Robot101> or closes, like everyone else :P
Jun 28 23:56:34 <timelyx> guenther: either wait for andre__ to forward the mail, or wait for me to exit scrollback
Jun 28 23:56:44 <andre__> timelyx, read zour mail, yupp. that's life, you will have to deal with that
Jun 28 23:56:44 <timelyx> either way, take my comment as an advance note that you've hurt me
Jun 28 23:56:49 <timelyx> and i'm quite likely to leave bugzilla
Jun 28 23:57:06 <timelyx> gan and others can point out that i've left maemo-devel
Jun 28 23:57:15 <guenther> Are you talking about the group membership?
Jun 28 23:57:24 <guenther> I did not set that bit.
Jun 28 23:57:32 <andre__> but in general, people stating "i pay you" are very strange...
Jun 28 23:57:58 <guenther> btw, see my last comment
Jun 28 23:58:46 <guenther> If you want to participate as a private, not affiliated user, there is *nothing* that holds you back.
Jun 28 23:58:58 <guenther> SO what is this about?
Jun 28 23:59:10 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: the internal bugzilla has a policy of not using FIXED on average
Jun 28 23:59:20 <timelyx> hence we use things like ALREADYFIXED
Jun 28 23:59:23 <andre__> well, if you want to be considered "private" we can just remove the group bit
Jun 28 23:59:33 <timelyx> which are really an alias for WORKSFORME, but WORKSFORME is banned (policy)
Jun 29 00:00:05 <timelyx> lcuk: note that it resembles the debian approach to bugs
Jun 29 00:00:15 <timelyx> you take a list of bugs that might or might not be resolved by shipping a "release"
Jun 29 00:00:21 <Robot101> and INVALID is equivalent to insulting the reporter's mother, so it needs to be re-opened by the error manager and closed with a different more mutually acceptable resolution
Jun 29 00:00:21 <timelyx> and you mass change them w/ some random resolution
Jun 29 00:01:10 <timelyx> Robot101++
Jun 29 00:01:53 <gentooer> anyone using the modified initfs with Diablo?
Jun 29 00:02:14 <guenther> timelyx: So you want that bit removed for your personal address?
Jun 29 00:02:21 <GeneralAntilles> Lots of people, gentooer.
Jun 29 00:02:30 <timelyx> guenther: please
Jun 29 00:02:30 <Robot101> its OK though, the bugzilla hacks still don't match the bug procedure, so you can violate the procedure by just assigning the bugs back to people, and they just disappear off everyone's graphs. its great.
Jun 29 00:02:33 <GeneralAntilles> fanoush updated the flasher a while ago.
Jun 29 00:02:38 <guenther> timelyx: Consider it done
Jun 29 00:02:40 <timelyx> if i want to comment from a nokia address, i'll do so
Jun 29 00:02:54 <guenther> Hey, *I* did not set that bit.
Jun 29 00:03:00 <timelyx> however the likelihood of me ever wanting to do that is infinitesimally small
Jun 29 00:03:11 <guenther> And if I remember correctly, it might have been you actually. ;-)
Jun 29 00:03:21 <gentooer> GeneralAntilles, if i'm upgrading to Diablo can I just flash it and the modified initfs will still work?
Jun 29 00:03:47 <GeneralAntilles> Go grab fanoush's updated flasher and re-run it.
Jun 29 00:04:10 <timelyx> Jaffa: the ctrl-e thing was really annoying (find)
Jun 29 00:04:37 <gentooer> but i boot off my SD card.. won't the Diablo update install everything on the internal flash memory?
Jun 29 00:05:00 <GeneralAntilles> gentooer, no, you can't flash the rootfs directly to the card.
Jun 29 00:05:33 <gentooer> ok.. guess i'll have to copy it all over again then
Jun 29 00:05:37 <GeneralAntilles> Flashing Diablo wont upgrade your SD install.
Jun 29 00:06:52 <GeneralAntilles> Assuming I read you correctly, the procedure you want is 1. Flash Diablo, 2. Setup the bootmenu.conf (or use an old one) and flash fanoush's new initfs, 3. Get Diablo set up how you want, 4. Overwrite it over your SD partition, and 5. Boot from your new Diablo SD install.
Jun 29 00:07:14 <timelyx> GAN800 / rm_you: 3326 was something someone changed
Jun 29 00:07:40 <gentooer> GeneralAntilles, that sounds about right, thanks for explaining :)
Jun 29 00:07:52 <timelyx> it bit me as i was trying to add new garage repos
Jun 29 00:08:55 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks for reminding me, gentooer. I need to do that and add my custom boot images again. ;0
Jun 29 00:18:41 <lcuk> ~lart harddrives
Jun 29 00:18:41 * infobot brandishes Excalibur! "With this sword, I vanquish thee, harddrives!" and lops off harddrives's head
Jun 29 00:38:43 <|penguinbait|> anyone have  android on 810 working?
Jun 29 00:47:50 <timelyx> derf: it's ok, the supreme court declared the gun ban unconstitutional
Jun 29 00:47:55 <timelyx> so now the guns are legal :)
Jun 29 00:48:25 <derf> timelyx: Actually, not quite yet they aren't.
Jun 29 00:48:27 <summatusmentis> lcuk: agreed... just had a second one die
Jun 29 00:48:35 <derf> They've got a couple of weeks to figure out how to deal with that.
Jun 29 00:48:59 <summatusmentis> supreme court just declared that the first amendment right applied to individuals, right?
Jun 29 00:49:00 <lcuk> well thankfully mine isn't quite dead. it was just resting
Jun 29 00:49:31 <summatusmentis> mine was making cliking noises, and d couldn't be fond to mount
Jun 29 00:49:42 <|penguinbait|> anyone have  android on 810 working?
Jun 29 00:49:58 <summatusmentis> there's a video of it, iirc
Jun 29 00:51:31 <lcuk> summatusmentis, ive had my first bsod *ever* in windows xp tonight!
Jun 29 00:52:10 <summatusmentis> lcuk: I don't use window :)
Jun 29 00:52:13 <summatusmentis> windows*
Jun 29 00:52:24 <summatusmentis> but congratulations, i suppose
Jun 29 00:52:26 <lcuk> well without your harddrive you dont use anything :P
Jun 29 00:52:40 <summatusmentis> lol, the APple store fixed it
Jun 29 00:53:26 <summatusmentis> but my backups are at home, and I'm not :-/
Jun 29 00:53:47 <gentooer> i just tried reinstalling openssh from the maemo site after upgrading to Diablo and it says "Application package not found"  does that mean it's not compatible with Diablo or is it just broken?
Jun 29 00:54:05 <lcuk> summatusmentis, ouch, so they just replaced the drive
Jun 29 00:54:29 <summatusmentis> yeah, it was under warranty
Jun 29 00:54:45 <summatusmentis> this is the second HD I've had die within the first year of having this
Jun 29 00:54:52 <GeneralAntilles> gentooer, it's not in Diable Extras yet.
Jun 29 00:55:05 <lcuk> i suppose its better than a kick in the teeth, but data is more important than physical, at least you have backups
Jun 29 00:55:05 <GeneralAntilles> Duplicate the maemo Extras repository in application manager and add chinook to the distribution field.
Jun 29 00:55:39 <summatusmentis> lcuk: I do, except I just left for vacation yesterday *rolls eyes*
Jun 29 00:55:59 <gentooer> ok thanks.. still don't really understand how these repos work..
Jun 29 00:56:11 <lcuk> *facepalm*
Jun 29 00:57:13 <lcuk> anyway, now its working again, im gonna sleep
Jun 29 00:57:16 <lcuk> gnite
Jun 29 00:59:41 <GeneralAntilles> gentooer, the .installs on maemo.org have a blank distribution field (for Extras, anyway), which defaults to whatever the current distribution you're using is (for you, diablo), but the Diablo area of Extras hasn't yet been populated (packages are being run through the autobuilder, should be mostly worked out in a few weeks), so the .install tells Application manager that you want to install the openssh package from Extras, 
Jun 29 00:59:55 <GeneralAntilles> Chinook packages are basically 99% compatible with Diablo
Jun 29 01:00:11 <GeneralAntilles> so the stop-gap solution until Diablo Extras is populated is to simply add Chinook Extras to your repository list.
Jun 29 01:01:21 <gentooer> ah wow thanks
Jun 29 01:04:12 <gentooer> ah that feels better.. can't have a linux install without ssh access :)
Jun 29 01:04:49 <timelyx> andre__: i'd have put 3330 in Misdirected:Nokia :)
Jun 29 01:05:37 <andre__> ah, that's good. need to realize that there's something like "misdirected". though it's ugly, here it fits
Jun 29 01:06:21 <GeneralAntilles> I was gonna do that when I saw, but couldn't find it. :(
Jun 29 01:06:56 <GeneralAntilles> s/saw/saw it/
Jun 29 01:06:56 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: I was gonna do that when I saw it, but couldn't find it. :(
Jun 29 01:07:35 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: you should practice cutting bugzilla url length
Jun 29 01:08:53 <GeneralAntilles> tinyurl?
Jun 29 01:09:34 <timeless> https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&field-1-0-0=target_milestone&field-1-1-0=bug_status&field0-0-0=noop&keywords
Jun 29 01:10:09 <timelyx> gah!
Jun 29 01:10:41 <timelyx> basically anything that is x=& can be replaced by &
Jun 29 01:14:55 <timelyx> and things which rely on pairs for which you've deleted the pair
Jun 29 01:16:45 <GeneralAntilles> So, the 4.1 bug list should be something like: https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&target_milestone=4.1&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED ?
Jun 29 01:21:53 <benh> ah cool, AGPS helper, rocks
Jun 29 01:22:08 * benh still needs to improve the GUI of bluetooth pan ... 
Jun 29 01:25:30 <benh> crao
Jun 29 01:25:37 <benh> martin never commited my updates
Jun 29 01:25:42 <benh> nor did a release
Jun 29 01:25:50 <benh> oh well, I'll add some more stuffs and we'll see
Jun 29 01:34:10 * timelyx reads the troll conversation from n days ago w/ interest
Jun 29 01:35:56 <timelyx> gourdin: fwiw, everyone can sound rude. i often sound rude.
Jun 29 01:36:18 <timelyx> in reading what you read, it sounded pretty bad... but i'm glad to see you've stayed
Jun 29 01:36:27 <timelyx> and hope that your contributions will grow :)
Jun 29 01:38:28 * timelyx wonders why crashanddie wrote (i ? i : 0)
Jun 29 01:46:32 <timelyx> andre__: fwiw, guenther "fixed" my account, so hopefully that part will go away
Jun 29 01:47:21 <guenther> I believe he knows that already. ;)
Jun 29 01:48:34 <timelyx> derf: ah, i haven't read wpost about it yet. i'm in .fi, so i only get an audio headline
Jun 29 01:49:01 <andre__> yupp :-)
Jun 29 01:49:02 * timelyx exits scrollback
Jun 29 01:49:15 <Raytray> Welcome back to the present.
Jun 29 01:49:44 <rm_you> timelyx: ?
Jun 29 01:49:46 <rm_you> timelyx> GAN800 / rm_you: 3326 was something someone changed
Jun 29 01:50:14 <GeneralAntilles> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3326
Jun 29 01:51:12 <rm_you> o
Jun 29 01:56:03 <andre__> isn't 3326 a garage bug then and not a maemo bugzilla issue?
Jun 29 01:57:50 <timeless> gah, it's 8 til 5 and they close at 5. but they aren't open
Jun 29 01:58:45 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, garage is a website component.
Jun 29 01:58:51 <timeless> how's that for service
Jun 29 01:59:06 <andre__> uargh. confusion. okay...
Jun 29 01:59:13 <GeneralAntilles> the bug is in Garage itself.
Jun 29 01:59:22 <timeless> anyway, is there a paln for abandonnigng the garage tracker?
Jun 29 01:59:32 <timeless> or is it still a proposal?
Jun 29 01:59:36 <GeneralAntilles> Proposal
Jun 29 01:59:45 <timeless> where do i isgn?
Jun 29 02:00:15 <GeneralAntilles> The was a planet entry, there's a -developers thread and there's an itT thread.
Jun 29 02:00:31 <andre__> heh. i sent an email to maemo-devs and a posting on itt, but not that much feedback. so it seems either garage devs don't really care or don't read anything
Jun 29 02:00:52 <GeneralAntilles> Hard to get feedback. . . .
Jun 29 02:00:55 <andre__> it's up to them, if they are happy with garage, i won't stop them. less work for me
Jun 29 02:02:26 <GeneralAntilles> My personal feeling is that garage's tracker sucks, but I have some reservations about merging garage tracking with Bugzilla.
Jun 29 02:04:20 <andre__> oh, i'm also not that keen on it because it means more work for us. on the other hand, i can just offer this to the community, because that's who i work for :-)
Jun 29 02:05:40 <timelyx> the first thing i did when i got control of the browser garage system was disable all the tracker bits
Jun 29 02:05:57 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles / andre__: one request: don't mass import bugs across
Jun 29 02:06:03 <timelyx> especially for the 770 backport project
Jun 29 02:06:51 <GeneralAntilles> Is there any statistical information on the garage tracker usage?
Jun 29 02:06:58 <andre__> eeks, that exists? sure, no way, i don't want entropy
Jun 29 02:07:19 <andre__> i have enough of entropy already right now ;-)
Jun 29 02:07:24 <GeneralAntilles> What projects use it the most. What kind of volume we're talking about. etc.
Jun 29 02:07:32 * timelyx ponders
Jun 29 02:07:38 <timelyx> way too useful to expect ;-)
Jun 29 02:08:49 <andre__> heh
Jun 29 02:13:47 <GeneralAntilles> So, a few clarifications.
Jun 29 02:14:01 <GeneralAntilles> How might it be set up? 3rd Party product with projects as components of that?
Jun 29 02:14:11 <timelyx> no
Jun 29 02:14:18 <timelyx> bugzilla supports a thing called classifications
Jun 29 02:14:27 <timelyx> (requires upgrading to supported version of bugzilla)
Jun 29 02:14:31 <timelyx> Garage would be a classification
Jun 29 02:14:44 <timelyx> each project in garage is given a product in bugzilla w/in the garage classification
Jun 29 02:14:58 <GeneralAntilles> OK
Jun 29 02:15:22 <timelyx> where possible components w/in a product should have common names
Jun 29 02:15:26 <timelyx> to enable cross queries
Jun 29 02:16:08 <GeneralAntilles> To reduce clutter, it should definitely be an opt-in thing for project admins
Jun 29 02:16:21 <GeneralAntilles> Should there also be some sort of barrier to entry?
Jun 29 02:16:27 <timelyx> perhaps
Jun 29 02:16:32 <GeneralAntilles> There are a lot of very stagnant projects on Garage, and it seems like you wouldn't want them getting in the way.
Jun 29 02:17:02 <timelyx> indeed
Jun 29 02:17:36 <timelyx> https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?func=downloadcsv&group_id=702&atid=2623
Jun 29 02:17:43 <timelyx> i think you can try to brute force tracker :)
Jun 29 02:17:49 <timelyx> i've done it before to get svn roots
Jun 29 02:20:18 <GeneralAntilles> I think the net effect will be a positive one
Jun 29 02:20:36 <GeneralAntilles> as I can't imagine many people wanting to submit bugs to a garage tracker.
Jun 29 02:23:07 <guenther> yeah...
Jun 29 02:23:22 <guenther> just like sf.net issue reporting forum thingy
Jun 29 02:23:35 <guenther> It's just unusable.
Jun 29 02:23:41 <GeneralAntilles> I'm just a little worried about possible negative side effects and the specifics of the implementation.
Jun 29 02:24:40 <timelyx> i think you might even only migrate 2 projects per week
Jun 29 02:24:51 <timelyx> that'd mean it'd take 3-4 years to migrate, but hey :)
Jun 29 02:25:09 <timelyx> (ok, maybe that's a bit slow, how about 10/week)
Jun 29 02:25:11 <GeneralAntilles> Well, the question still remains as to how many projects are actually using their trackers.
Jun 29 02:25:17 <GeneralAntilles> I don't think it's all that many, myself.
Jun 29 02:25:20 * timelyx nods
Jun 29 02:25:36 <timelyx> i'm still trying to figure out a way to find out if any are
Jun 29 02:25:46 <timelyx> note that it's easy for users to use a tracker w/o the project
Jun 29 02:25:50 <rm_you> i use mine
Jun 29 02:25:57 <timelyx> since the project can easily not know the tracker exists
Jun 29 02:25:58 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: but i guess i would be up with switching
Jun 29 02:26:06 <timelyx> https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?atid=2623&group_id=702&func=browse
Jun 29 02:26:10 <GeneralAntilles> Canola uses theirs
Jun 29 02:26:21 <GeneralAntilles> Maemo Mapper users theirs
Jun 29 02:26:22 <timelyx> this group is theoretically using it as the assignee has reported 3 of the "items"
Jun 29 02:26:24 <rm_you> then i could refer to my volume crash bug with its bug number and not confuse people ;P
Jun 29 02:26:46 <timelyx> rm_you ~wouldn't it be nice~
Jun 29 02:26:51 <rm_you> lol
Jun 29 02:27:16 <timelyx> hrm, i think i'm no longer a garage admin :(
Jun 29 02:27:23 <rm_you> damn bug #2593
Jun 29 02:27:50 <GeneralAntilles> mplayer is sorta using theirs
Jun 29 02:27:53 <rm_you> tho, it IS global...
Jun 29 02:27:54 <rm_you> https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?aid=2593
Jun 29 02:28:08 <timelyx> Bugzilla Bug 2593
Jun 29 02:28:08 <timelyx> Getting started does not work with Flash disabled
Jun 29 02:28:13 <GeneralAntilles> PyMaemo seemms to be
Jun 29 02:28:14 <rm_you> lol
Jun 29 02:28:31 <rm_you> yeah but at least garage is global to garage
Jun 29 02:28:32 <rm_you> >_>
Jun 29 02:28:33 <GeneralAntilles> OMWeather, too.
Jun 29 02:28:51 <rm_you> tho i guess I would be down with switching to bugzilla
Jun 29 02:29:00 <rm_you> people would have a better idea of where to go to post bugs
Jun 29 02:29:23 <guenther> Fix your code then before the switch. ;)
Jun 29 02:29:27 <GeneralAntilles> So #2593 is somewhat meaningful to the total number of bugs in all the Garage trackers?
Jun 29 02:29:27 <rm_you> rofl
Jun 29 02:29:38 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: yes
Jun 29 02:29:50 <timelyx> https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?aid=3000
Jun 29 02:29:53 <timelyx> doesn't exist :)
Jun 29 02:29:58 <GeneralAntilles> We get so many dupes in the adv-backlight tracker. I yearn for a RESOLVED DUPLICATE. :D
Jun 29 02:29:58 <timelyx> so we're talking about a handful
Jun 29 02:30:11 <rm_you> lol
Jun 29 02:30:17 <GeneralAntilles> How many bugs are in the Hacker Edition trackers?
Jun 29 02:30:20 <rm_you> i want a "WONTFIX INTENDED"
Jun 29 02:31:03 <guenther> "intended" is implied
Jun 29 02:31:05 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: probably most of them :)
Jun 29 02:31:10 <rm_you> what is the standard state for "THIS IS NOT A BUG, THIS IS A FEATURE" :P
Jun 29 02:31:21 <guenther> quote: "or some sort of a feature"...
Jun 29 02:31:28 <timelyx> there are < 2700 tracker items
Jun 29 02:31:33 <GeneralAntilles> INVALID
Jun 29 02:31:56 <guenther> rm_you: RESOLVED INVALID most of the time
Jun 29 02:32:01 <timelyx> https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?aid=1
Jun 29 02:32:04 <timelyx> is a great bug
Jun 29 02:32:04 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: maybe I should BURY that option
Jun 29 02:32:06 <guenther> differences are subtle sometimes
Jun 29 02:32:09 <GeneralAntilles> timelyx, is there somewhere I can get a feel for the classification setup in action?
Jun 29 02:32:16 <guenther> wait...
Jun 29 02:32:24 <guenther> RESOLVED NOTABUG often :)
Jun 29 02:32:28 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: bugzilla.mozilla.org :)
Jun 29 02:32:32 <timelyx> or bugzilla.gnome.org
Jun 29 02:32:40 <timelyx> possibly bugzilla.redhat.com
Jun 29 02:33:01 <timelyx> anyone w/ a maintained bugzilla and a moderately large set of components has to have it
Jun 29 02:33:33 <GeneralAntilles> Rgr
Jun 29 02:34:34 <timelyx> it's mostly a hack, since it doesn't actually affect bug views, and barely affects searching/reporting
Jun 29 02:35:23 <timelyx> all it does is limit the number of visible products
Jun 29 02:36:36 <timelyx> bah, tracker is amazingly useless
Jun 29 02:36:46 <GeneralAntilles> Well, it definitely fits in with the branding and trademark direction.
Jun 29 02:37:00 <GeneralAntilles> I think we can all agree that Garage tracker needs to die.
Jun 29 02:37:17 <timelyx> even having used tracker, i still have a hard time recognizing if a bug is open or closed
Jun 29 02:37:26 <timelyx> https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?aid=4 <open>
Jun 29 02:37:27 <GeneralAntilles> It's horrifying.
Jun 29 02:38:31 <GeneralAntilles> As it's stands, garage is mostly a horrifying maze of evil and difficult to understand nooks and crannies.
Jun 29 02:39:03 <timelyx> s/it's/it/
Jun 29 02:39:40 <GeneralAntilles> Muscle memory
Jun 29 02:39:45 <GeneralAntilles> My spine does what it wants. :D
Jun 29 02:39:50 <timelyx> heh
Jun 29 02:41:48 <GeneralAntilles> guenther or andre__, one of you want to put up a proposal on the wiki? "Task:Garage bug tracking" or similar.
Jun 29 02:43:09 <andre__> sunds good. my plan was to collect feedback and then "streamline" it to a wiki page. however, so far it's easy to collect ;-)
Jun 29 02:43:31 <timelyx> it's limited to two screens of chatter above this line? :)
Jun 29 02:43:53 <acydlord> anyone in here who uses a sprint data plan gonna be willing to sign a petition to sprint?
Jun 29 02:44:23 <GeneralAntilles> Will there be cookies and punch?
Jun 29 02:44:23 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: basically the default component should probably be "General"
Jun 29 02:44:29 <andre__> got to sleep. i can see light out there...
Jun 29 02:44:35 <timelyx> unless someone has a really good argument for another name
Jun 29 02:44:36 <GeneralAntilles> Later, andre__.
Jun 29 02:44:38 <timelyx> andre__: heh
Jun 29 02:44:50 <timelyx> good night, sleep tight, don't let the maemo bugs bite
Jun 29 02:44:54 <acydlord> sadly i cant afford cookies
Jun 29 02:45:01 <timelyx> milk then?
Jun 29 02:45:02 <guenther> andre__: yeah... -(
Jun 29 02:45:14 <GeneralAntilles> How about a free hat?
Jun 29 02:45:21 <rm_you> I think the default component should be "Antilles"
Jun 29 02:45:23 <rm_you> how about that? :P
Jun 29 02:45:35 <timelyx> veto
Jun 29 02:45:45 <GeneralAntilles> Sorry, rm_you. :P
Jun 29 02:45:49 <guenther> rm_you: you mean default assignee, right? ;)
Jun 29 02:45:49 <rm_you> fine, "General" works too
Jun 29 02:45:59 <timelyx> i think we could probably skip importing resolved bugs
Jun 29 02:46:05 <timelyx> unless someone has a reason to import them
Jun 29 02:46:12 <timelyx> not sure about the value one way or the other
Jun 29 02:46:18 <rm_you> timelyx: you could really just let people import their own bugs <_<
Jun 29 02:46:22 <rm_you> voluntarily
Jun 29 02:46:23 <guenther> don't
Jun 29 02:46:25 <GeneralAntilles> Leave it up to the project admins?
Jun 29 02:46:30 <rm_you> yeah...
Jun 29 02:46:34 <timelyx> nah
Jun 29 02:46:39 <GeneralAntilles> If they have a good reason for importing a resolved bug, they can import it?
Jun 29 02:46:41 <guenther> sure, no duping to the resolved bug
Jun 29 02:46:42 <timelyx> i think per project admins should get an email
Jun 29 02:46:49 <rm_you> i mean... i wouldn't want to be FORCED to use a different system
Jun 29 02:46:49 <timelyx> asking them to opt in or opt out, or opt manual
Jun 29 02:46:52 <guenther> But close one as resolved, and dupe the rest.
Jun 29 02:47:09 <timelyx> you could choose "I'll migrate to bugzilla, just create the product"
Jun 29 02:47:14 <timelyx> or "Yes, migrate me"
Jun 29 02:47:18 <timelyx> or "No, don't migrate me"
Jun 29 02:47:30 <timelyx> or "I'm too lazy to reply to email, do whatever you feel is best"
Jun 29 02:47:54 <guenther> timelyx: That's implied after a timeout with no response. ;)
Jun 29 02:48:00 <timelyx> guenther: yes
Jun 29 02:48:06 <timelyx> but it should be listed as an option in the email
Jun 29 02:48:20 <timelyx> <if you don't reply by {deadline}, this {action} will happen automatically>
Jun 29 02:48:31 <guenther> that sounds better
Jun 29 02:48:42 <guenther> I was about to tell you to phrase it more strict
Jun 29 02:48:46 <guenther> and scary
Jun 29 02:49:11 <guenther> s/this action/ WHATEVER WE FEEL LIKE DOING /
Jun 29 02:49:36 <timelyx> "We will do something, and you probably won't like it"
Jun 29 02:49:43 <guenther> probably including feeding the devs cat
Jun 29 02:50:13 <guenther> like that
Jun 29 02:50:33 <timelyx> anyway
Jun 29 02:50:41 <timelyx> i think the bigger question is how to handle components later
Jun 29 02:50:46 <timelyx> supposing someone actually wants them
Jun 29 02:50:58 <timelyx> i'd hope maemo mapper and a couple of the others you've already named would
Jun 29 02:51:22 <acydlord> ugh, i cant download diablo thanks to this damn unstable connection and sprint making the data plan suck
Jun 29 02:51:28 <timelyx> ideally there wouldn't be too many such requests per time period, so it shouldn't hurt the admins
Jun 29 02:51:38 <timelyx> acydlord: find a shell account
Jun 29 02:52:02 <timelyx> http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=free+shell+accounts&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Jun 29 02:52:15 <guenther> adding components should be harmless
Jun 29 02:52:36 <timelyx> ok
Jun 29 02:52:54 <guenther> hmm
Jun 29 02:52:58 <GeneralAntilles> So, say we decide to move Advanced Backlight tracking over to bugzilla, versioning, etc is done for that component by the project admin(s)?
Jun 29 02:53:13 <guenther> in GNOME, the devs of a project can do it themself
Jun 29 02:53:25 <guenther> no such thing in bugs.maemo.org
Jun 29 02:53:28 <timelyx> guenther: that's the things
Jun 29 02:53:34 <timelyx> hence the "not quite harmless" bit :)
Jun 29 02:53:46 <timelyx> i don't remember what current bugzilla says
Jun 29 02:53:54 <guenther> But I haven't seen components change heavily ever.
Jun 29 02:53:56 <|penguinbait|> anyone have  android on 810 working?
Jun 29 02:53:58 <timelyx> i think a properly configured product can probably be tweaked by its own group
Jun 29 02:54:07 <|penguinbait|> sorry for repeating, its been a while :)
Jun 29 02:54:33 * timelyx thinks it's an inappropriate question :)
Jun 29 02:54:38 <timelyx> this is #maemo, not #nit :)
Jun 29 02:54:47 <timelyx> but i'm just one voice :)
Jun 29 02:54:51 <GeneralAntilles> Meh, Debian-maemo discussion goes on in here.
Jun 29 02:55:20 <timelyx> they're either an upstream or a downstream :)
Jun 29 02:55:21 <guenther> I still guess, new products should be harmless. Don't expect much requests.
Jun 29 02:55:22 <GeneralAntilles> |penguinbait|, I've never actually seen anybody in here with it.
Jun 29 02:55:27 <|penguinbait|> I am just looking to see if anyone actually got it working.
Jun 29 02:55:36 <|penguinbait|> I flash the kernel and can longer boot
Jun 29 02:55:43 <timelyx> guenther: yeah, that's my view
Jun 29 02:55:47 <guenther> No real use for any component other than General, unless there is a substantial amount of bugs anyway.
Jun 29 02:55:53 <timelyx> i just want you to be aware that by default you get stuck w/ the maintenance
Jun 29 02:56:03 <|penguinbait|> I was asked to help someone thats all I was trying to  do
Jun 29 02:56:04 <timelyx> yeah
Jun 29 02:56:36 <guenther> yes, I am aware we're going to shoulder the support load
Jun 29 02:56:46 <timelyx> fwiw, i'd really recommend changing the email domain space a bit
Jun 29 02:56:55 <timelyx> using *@maemo.org for bugs is a really bad idea :)
Jun 29 02:57:28 <guenther> What do you mean?
Jun 29 02:57:30 <timelyx> i mean, what if a real person wants one of those valuable email addresses :)
Jun 29 02:57:49 <mysc> are the mojo folks going to make a bootable ubuntu (a-la-john)?
Jun 29 02:57:57 <timelyx> https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Browser
Jun 29 02:58:02 <timelyx> bookmarks-bugs@maemo.org
Jun 29 02:58:06 <GeneralAntilles> mysc, no clue, that'd be a question for the mojo folks. ;)
Jun 29 02:58:15 <timelyx> instead of that, i'd have preferred bookmarks@bugs.maemo.org
Jun 29 02:58:19 <mysc> heh, true enough. might be neat to play with...
Jun 29 02:58:51 <guenther> ah
Jun 29 02:59:04 <timelyx> it's a minor detail, i just was responsible for the mozilla.org design
Jun 29 02:59:11 <timelyx> and wasn't allowed to pick the design here
Jun 29 02:59:12 <guenther> Well, what human wants an something-bugs address? ;)
Jun 29 02:59:23 <timelyx> guenther: i know...
Jun 29 02:59:34 <timelyx> but when you start adding lots of other projects, you might end up w/ conflicts
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