**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 01 02:59:56 2008 Jul 01 03:15:08 ... n800 is not a phone Jul 01 03:21:34 I know that. But I don't think there's a way to have the N800 itself connect to a data network, right? My main thing was that phones can access the internet via networks while the N800 relies either on wifi, or those phones. I just wanted to know if it would be more economical to just buy a phone that's very internet-capable and get rid of the tablet or to buy a cheap phone to connect to the network, and have the N800 connect through the cheap phon Jul 01 03:21:34 e to the internet. Jul 01 03:22:12 I'm not complaining, I'm just asking for advice. Jul 01 03:22:17 it can connect to data phone? Jul 01 03:22:24 if you have a phone.. it can use the data plan on the phone? Jul 01 03:22:33 yes Jul 01 03:22:36 Yeah, through bluetooth. Jul 01 03:22:51 hey Jul 01 03:22:53 dont get rid of it Jul 01 03:23:10 donate to a 17 year old student whos nokia 770 got wsod and has no warranty :( Jul 01 03:24:25 zakm: I'll see what I can do. But right now I'm looking for more expert opinions. Jul 01 03:24:35 awesome :D Jul 01 03:24:56 seriously though.. get a phone and use the bluetooth ;p Jul 01 03:25:24 All rightie, thanks for your thoughts. Jul 01 03:25:58 Though, I looked on ebay and there are people who start their N800 bids at $.99 Jul 01 03:26:07 yeah ive looked Jul 01 03:26:11 but they end at like $240- .l- Jul 01 03:26:31 I wonder if those end up better than those that start at $200. Jul 01 03:26:34 i bought mine on ebay.. my nokia 770 for $85 .. in a month.. WSOD .. and now i have no way to fix it Jul 01 03:26:46 i think i saw like 5 ads for a n800 for ~$200 on craigslist in my area Jul 01 03:26:46 Flashing the OS doesn't help? Jul 01 03:26:53 yeah i flashed like 50 times Jul 01 03:26:55 it works just fine Jul 01 03:26:57 but its all white Jul 01 03:27:06 tank-man im in Toronto, ON Jul 01 03:27:11 And Nokia won't cover it? Jul 01 03:27:11 lol Jul 01 03:27:18 nokia.. im out of warranty Jul 01 03:27:24 oohh.... Jul 01 03:27:33 tank-man: i can get it for $200 at a store -.- .. i dont have money lol Jul 01 03:27:33 That SUCKS. Jul 01 03:27:40 yes it really does Jul 01 03:27:46 They still sell them at stores? Jul 01 03:27:50 i spent long saving up for it.. nojob no allowance.. im 17 years old Jul 01 03:27:55 n800's .. yes Jul 01 03:28:01 not 770's Jul 01 03:28:08 I thought all N800 were sold out by now. Jul 01 03:28:27 im in a huge city ;p Jul 01 03:30:37 did you drop it? Jul 01 03:34:20 cactaur: be aware that the iphone does not allow you to get an n800 to use it for data access. no bluetooth tethering on the iphone. Jul 01 03:34:51 rwhitby: Don't worry. I'm staying well away from the iphone. Jul 01 03:34:53 oh, sorry, mixed cactaur and tank-man Jul 01 03:35:38 tank-man: no Jul 01 03:55:22 tank-man: I scored one for $160, but I haven't seen one at that price since Jul 01 04:43:40 hi, how do i use hildon framework for a Qt application on n810 Jul 01 04:50:59 ranit, you don't. Jul 01 04:53:15 so is there any framework that allows me to work with Qt on the device, GeneralAntilles Jul 01 04:54:14 re Jul 01 04:54:16 http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/ Jul 01 04:58:30 thanx , site updated on 26 jun Jul 01 05:02:57 Anybody succeeded to get serial console on n810? Jul 01 05:03:10 or something equivalent, where I could see kernel messages Jul 01 05:03:44 zap, look at Debian-maemo? Jul 01 05:05:29 what is Debian-maemo? Jul 01 05:06:19 https://wiki.maemo.org/Debian_for_NITs_development http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian Jul 01 05:06:30 Debian boots with an fb console. Jul 01 05:07:15 Hmm, interesting idea Jul 01 05:07:21 I could enable fb console in kernel Jul 01 05:07:53 although this is not too good as you can't copy :) Jul 01 05:09:51 you can at least watch boot messages on OS2008 as well Jul 01 05:10:19 well I don't need boot messages :) I need debug output from a driver, and it generates a lot of output Jul 01 05:10:28 and then crashes :) Jul 01 05:10:38 hmm Jul 01 05:11:07 I don't remember hearing about many (any?) people getting serial console working... Jul 01 05:11:35 doesn't mean it's impossible of course, but there isn't any documentation for people outside Nokia unless I missed something Jul 01 05:12:23 I have seen somewhere the pinout of the serial connector under the battery Jul 01 05:12:40 but it's 3.3V and needs a voltage converter, unless your PC understands 3.3Vv Jul 01 05:13:15 * johnx tries to remember his serial port terminology Jul 01 05:17:11 * Stskeeps yawns and pokes the coffee machine Jul 01 05:17:56 mmm...more coffee Jul 01 05:21:47 i wonder how to force a +x attribute on a file in svn when it wasn't +x in the first place Jul 01 05:22:41 Hrm, anybody think the "Securing root access" section here should be spun off to keep the size of the Root access article down? http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access Jul 01 05:22:48 Or does somebody want to prune the section a bit? Jul 01 05:30:47 Stskeeps: svn propset svn:executable 1 Jul 01 05:30:52 zap: ta Jul 01 05:34:24 GA: IMHO, it should be comprssed not spun off Jul 01 05:34:47 GeneralAntilles: I'd put the section about R&D mode before "securing root access" Jul 01 05:35:31 and "securing root access" contains just too many words, I'd just put a simple instruction - do this, do that, period. Jul 01 05:36:13 zap: The R&D stuff has nothing to do with securing root access, it should really be placed above it Jul 01 05:36:26 that's what I said Jul 01 05:36:47 Reload. Jul 01 05:37:04 yep Jul 01 05:37:30 is there any reason to disable root logins via ssh? This seems ridiculous, as ssh was designed from the very beginning for secure root remote access Jul 01 05:37:33 Section Secure future root-level access is empty and should be dropped Jul 01 05:38:18 zap, good enough for me. Jul 01 05:41:53 Do we really need the list of Windows SSH clients? Jul 01 05:42:41 Dunno. If not, I'd just mention in one sentence that putty can be used on windows/linux. Jul 01 05:42:55 I'm gonna say "no Jul 01 05:42:56 " Jul 01 05:43:03 That belongs in an ssh access article. Jul 01 05:44:15 The sudoers configuration steps should really be done with visudo, no? Jul 01 05:44:27 echoing that seems like a good way to end up with a reboot loop. Jul 01 05:44:29 yes, it should for sure Jul 01 05:44:40 qwerty12, you want to re-write those steps? Jul 01 05:45:11 I'm not a wiki editor at heart :). Jul 01 05:45:23 There's also another way of getting root too: http://www.guru-group.fi/~too/sw/maemo/rootsh/ Jul 01 05:45:49 No need to complicate things Jul 01 05:46:04 2 "root access" packages is more than enough. Jul 01 05:46:26 *shrugs* Jul 01 05:46:59 If you want users to use visudo (and I'm not saying that you shouldn't), you may want to point them to a vi for n00bs site too. Jul 01 05:47:03 For newbies asking "How do I get root", the answer shouldn't be "this package, or this package, or this package" Jul 01 05:47:09 How do they know which one to choose? Jul 01 05:47:11 Just confusing. Jul 01 05:47:14 True Jul 01 05:48:06 I'd say the 770 WSOD crap at the top can go. Jul 01 05:48:21 Most of the 770s that are going to WSOD have WSODed already. Jul 01 05:48:29 Disclaimer can probably go, too. Jul 01 05:52:06 Brilliant work on the wiki to all involved, I'm reading: http://wiki.maemo.org/Programming_FM_radio . I'm learning a bit of python anyway so a little program to record from the radio would be nice :). Jul 01 05:52:27 i'd like an app like that :) Jul 01 05:52:33 I'm a hypocrite. I've always said I didn't like python of the speed and guess what I am learning now >. s/of/because of Jul 01 05:55:43 Any ideas? "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set Jul 01 05:55:43 ". I'm running in DIABLO_X86. Tell me I'm wrong, but I'd naturally assume I don't need any qemu as cputrans as my processor is already X86. Jul 01 05:56:35 qwerty12, that's what happens to everyone. python is a pretty nice language to program in Jul 01 05:57:43 zap: yes disabling root logins via ssh is trivial Jul 01 05:58:13 PermitRootLogin Jul 01 05:59:05 SSH: Configuring Root Logins Jul 01 05:59:05 PermitRootLogin no. This will disable all root logins. ... PermitRootLogin nopwd. This allows root logins only when an authentication method other than ... Jul 01 05:59:05 www.ssh.com/support/documentation/online/ssh/adminguide/32/Configuring_Root_Logins.html Jul 01 05:59:42 I don't know why anyone would want to do that but a sed line should make that easier for people. Jul 01 06:00:35 do what? Jul 01 06:00:43 i could easily make a package to do it Jul 01 06:00:47 i have sed packages :) Jul 01 06:01:05 Cool :). I'm talking about disabling root logins over ssh. Jul 01 06:01:22 do you want No, or Nopwd? Jul 01 06:01:28 i'd probably make a Nopwd package Jul 01 06:02:09 What's the word on the user password these days? Jul 01 06:02:29 Seems to me we'd be better off with most of that section just going away. . . . Jul 01 06:03:23 last i checked you didn't want to set a user password if you wanted your device to boot properly Jul 01 06:04:05 you can setup an ssh key on user though iirc Jul 01 06:04:12 If you were willing to use a usb keyboard and fanoush framebuffer tools, you probably could set a user password... Jul 01 06:04:52 Think in terms of users. Jul 01 06:04:58 Do they really need to do these things? Jul 01 06:05:03 I'd say, "no". Jul 01 06:05:05 "do which"? Jul 01 06:05:35 http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access#Securing_root_access Jul 01 06:05:39 Same here. I don't know why a user would want to set a password anyway on user. I'd just point to the device lock feature. Jul 01 06:06:04 (although that can be broken with a cat and grep >.<) Jul 01 06:06:04 The sudoers lines are just a good way to end up in a reboot loop. Jul 01 06:07:00 heh Jul 01 06:07:07 I would not recommend leaving them there. If the user really needs to run a certain program as root without typing root etc, then they can use fanoush script: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=122754&postcount=5 Jul 01 06:08:11 GeneralAntilles: as is, i wouldn't understand that the section doesn't apply to n810s Jul 01 06:08:15 so it really needs to be changed Jul 01 06:08:40 reload Jul 01 06:09:26 qwerty12: first thing i do once i install ssh is to change the root and user password Jul 01 06:09:35 At this point you should have gained root access to your device, and be looking at the root prompt: Jul 01 06:09:35 # Jul 01 06:09:35 However, if your Wi-Fi network is not password protected, so might anyone else near you who has Wi-Fi, SSH and a clue. Jul 01 06:09:35 You still need to secure the root account ("rootme" is a terrible password). Jul 01 06:10:01 it still doesn't tell me this only applies to old systems that didn't change the password Jul 01 06:10:03 melmoth, change it yes. I think disabling it is a bit extreme though. Jul 01 06:10:57 fcuk scratchbox btw, I'm compiling outside of it and it still wants to run: "faheem@andLinux:/scratchbox/users/faheem/home/faheem/kernel/kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source$ make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=../../arm-2008q1/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi- bzImage" " /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: /targets/links/scratchbox.config: No such file or directory" Jul 01 06:11:08 qwerty12: i could change http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/capture-root-0.1.deb so that it Set PermitRootLogin nopwd Jul 01 06:11:34 qwerty12: did you reconfigure? Jul 01 06:12:06 good point, make clean doesn't remove a .config file, does it? Jul 01 06:12:13 * timely shrugs Jul 01 06:12:24 i was just assuming it wasn't a feature of the sources Jul 01 06:12:30 i don't really want to look Jul 01 06:12:49 <|kki|> mmm seems "cron" drain my battery very fast :( Jul 01 06:13:10 Heh, no probs, just dunno why it's being a asshole. scratchbox sucks because it thinks X86 needs a cputransparency >.< Jul 01 06:13:20 Yes, there's a reason Nokia doesn't bundle it. Jul 01 06:14:34 <|kki|> but i don't' know why it does this, i do not see cpu consuming Jul 01 06:14:59 Doesn't take but a little bit. Jul 01 06:15:11 OK, dneary's wiki article for today is pretty much there. Jul 01 06:18:37 |kki|, the things that drain the CPU the most are apps causing it to wake up all the time Jul 01 06:19:34 Anybody have an opinion on non-English pages in the wiki? https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemowiki_Action_Group#Russian_Language_Section Jul 01 06:31:50 GeneralAntilles: i don't want search clutter Jul 01 06:31:56 dns entries are fine :) Jul 01 06:31:59 Yeah, neither do I. Jul 01 06:32:20 We'd have to run a separate wiki install for each language, then. Jul 01 06:34:34 Man, I really could do with a windows compile of 0xFFFF. libusb is available on windows too. If the windows nokia flasher was going to be made retarded, at least add some phoenix features in it. Jul 01 06:35:20 heh Jul 01 06:35:40 GeneralAntilles: on an as requested basis. minimum commitment = 5 people Jul 01 06:35:55 we don't need extra ways to host wiki spam Jul 01 06:36:20 I don't think any non-english wiki is gonna have the people behind it to be feasible, myself. Jul 01 06:37:37 as requested trial basis. surveyed monthly, if spam exceeds X, it's disabled. Jul 01 06:39:48 Sounds like a plan, but it's something that'll need to be pushed maemo.org-side more than anything. Jul 01 06:41:15 not my problem Jul 01 06:41:32 Not mine, either. :D Jul 01 06:42:24 anyway stick my comments into the page and move along ;-) Jul 01 06:42:45 Morning, all Jul 01 06:42:56 hi Jul 01 06:43:09 Howdy, Jaffa. Jul 01 06:48:07 w00t, my port of the android omap patches to diablo kernel worked :) Jul 01 06:49:56 And what do they do? Jul 01 06:50:22 qwerty12, O_o Jul 01 06:50:40 that must have taken a bit of effort! Jul 01 06:51:29 Jaffa, Allow me to run android hopefully. There's a touchscreen fix which I'll look into later. Anyone know how well framebuffer works, I've got to try and port an onscreen keyboard which lives in the kernel (yes, this was new to me too) Jul 01 06:51:33 johnx, yep :) Jul 01 06:52:00 framebuffer...hmm...it's gonna be a little slow Jul 01 06:52:02 qwerty12: ah, right Jul 01 06:52:20 probably lots of tearing too Jul 01 06:52:28 johnx, yeah, i think it will be easier to just get a usb keyboard Jul 01 06:53:01 well, slow framebuffer is kind of unavoidable without xomap Jul 01 06:53:46 doesn't matter if you're using an onscreen keyboard or just poking around with the touchscreen Jul 01 07:01:34 Bye. Jul 01 07:10:02 morning Jul 01 07:11:59 hrw,qwerty,johnx,jaffa: moo. Jul 01 07:12:09 hmm? Jul 01 07:12:24 ok, let us make it "hello". Jul 01 07:12:31 hi Jul 01 07:13:01 I respond to moo and m00 also of course :) Jul 01 07:13:24 the "hmm?" was more of a "What's up?" Jul 01 07:14:00 RST38h: moooning Jul 01 07:14:48 :P Jul 01 07:16:25 * johnx wanders AFK to do dishes :| Jul 01 07:17:43 hi Jussi Jul 01 07:18:21 Anybody want to volunteer to start on this? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maemo_Mapper&action=edit&redlink=1 Jul 01 07:18:49 GeneralAntilles: to write about it? Jul 01 07:19:00 Yeah, to start the article. Jul 01 07:19:09 not me then Jul 01 07:19:14 Put together an infobox, write an introduction, start filling in the history and information. Jul 01 07:19:24 I have nightmares after looking at m-m source Jul 01 07:21:26 The wiki interest that was drummed up during that Upmtious/meanwhile nonsense has long since faded. Jul 01 07:22:33 any dreambox owners around? Jul 01 07:25:39 zomg viruzez Jul 01 07:26:59 keesj: I can relay you to one, but not sure if he is awake yet Jul 01 07:29:11 GA: Invite him back! Jul 01 07:30:20 GA: Btw, hrw found who Darius was - apparently some Polish celebrity troll with psychiatric problems Jul 01 07:31:05 o_o Jul 01 07:31:08 Aye. I wish I could read Polish to read the stuff about him :/ Jul 01 07:31:20 fanoush noticed that Jul 01 07:37:51 http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/maemo-meeting-2008-06-30.html Jul 01 07:38:17 * X-Fade thinks GA tracks Recent Changes :) Jul 01 07:38:25 Something like that. Jul 01 07:38:41 It's still light enough to keep track. ;) Jul 01 07:38:51 http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Jul 01 07:39:36 do you have a wiki notification mechanism? Jul 01 07:39:41 like watch Jul 01 07:39:47 but 'watch all' Jul 01 07:39:53 including new pages Jul 01 07:40:01 Well, if there's specific articles you want to keep track of: http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Watchlist Jul 01 07:40:08 To see the whole feed: http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Recentchanges Jul 01 07:40:23 lbt: There is a rss feed for Recent Changes too. Jul 01 07:40:33 It kinda sucks, though. Jul 01 07:40:48 Yes, but at least you see there _was_ a change ;) Jul 01 07:40:58 gan: i missed the meeting? Jul 01 07:41:02 I wanted an email notification for my wiki : http://linux-raid.osdl.org/ Jul 01 07:41:25 X-Fade, oh, -m #maemo-meeting. It interferes with people's abilities to use their IRC clients when they're in there. Jul 01 07:41:26 I guess RSS is next best - but I live by email Jul 01 07:41:55 yes please Jul 01 07:41:56 GeneralAntilles: Why would they be in there in the first place ;) Jul 01 07:41:59 i can't /nick timelyx Jul 01 07:42:08 Ah, really? Is it that bad? Jul 01 07:42:10 X-Fade: so i don't miss the channel taffic Jul 01 07:42:12 X-Fade, so you don't have to remember to join before the next meeting, of course! Jul 01 07:42:13 yes Jul 01 07:42:18 +m prevents nick changes. Jul 01 07:42:30 Argh, that is lame. Jul 01 07:42:50 Nah, it makes sense during a real meeting. Jul 01 07:43:01 Prevents people from /nicking to send messages to the channel. Jul 01 07:43:08 Just don't leave things sitting around +m. :P Jul 01 07:43:37 Ok, well it is off now.. Jul 01 07:43:58 Thanks Jul 01 07:44:56 :) Jul 01 07:45:57 anyway, i'll try to push an updated garage to mxr.maemo.org today Jul 01 07:46:03 w/ luck that dns could go live this week :o Jul 01 07:46:05 I wonder where the css for that stupid message banner is. . . . Jul 01 07:47:21 In 2 sentences or less, "What is Extras?" Jul 01 07:47:55 additional packages with less testing but potentially faster updates. Jul 01 07:48:02 if it isn't. please let me know. Jul 01 07:48:25 GeneralAntilles: The maemo.org repository for community sofware? Jul 01 07:49:04 Sounds good. Jul 01 07:49:21 Thanks, lbt! http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Jul 01 07:49:22 Extras is a selection of software for your Nokia Internet Tablet created by other Tablet users. This software often provides many interesting features and is usually of good quality, but can occasionally be less than perfect Jul 01 07:49:38 Will a .install enable Extras or just create a duplicate entry? Jul 01 07:50:10 I've found it sometimes creates a duplicate if the .install specifies something /slightly/ different to the existing one (on chinook, at least) Jul 01 07:50:45 Hrm, well, X-Fade, do you have a .install handy that we could link to from that wiki page that would enable it cleanly? Jul 01 07:51:08 heh Jul 01 07:51:13 file a bug against AM :) Jul 01 07:51:33 timelyx: There already is. IIRC. Jul 01 07:52:19 GeneralAntilles: Not handy at the moment, the .install files for extras don't seem to be generated at the moment. This is something I need to look in to. Jul 01 07:52:29 Ehm Diablo extras. Jul 01 07:52:45 distribution = Jul 01 07:52:46 ? Jul 01 07:53:01 I'm not sure if that is allowed in .install Jul 01 07:54:24 I thought it was... Jul 01 07:54:56 I think so, too. Jul 01 07:55:30 might it be "not officially supported" or something? Jul 01 07:56:55 http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node14.html#sec:pack_controlling_installation Jul 01 07:59:56 guys: is there some kind of holiday in UK today? Jul 01 08:02:34 hrw: nope Jul 01 08:02:34 pvanhoof: hey, any news on fixing that modest crash on email fetch? Jul 01 08:02:56 RST38h, bug# ? Jul 01 08:03:12 RST38h, but it's better to ask sergio Jul 01 08:03:25 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3311 Jul 01 08:04:58 RST38h that bug is being fixed now Jul 01 08:05:30 if you update the diablo package from modest web it becomes better Jul 01 08:05:39 Should it be confirmed and assigned, then? Jul 01 08:05:40 but the real fix is being developed right now Jul 01 08:05:47 sure Jul 01 08:05:56 actually the version used for diablo release crashes a lot Jul 01 08:06:05 unfortunately :( Jul 01 08:06:12 newer versions are far much better Jul 01 08:06:40 SSU. :D Jul 01 08:07:01 :) Jul 01 08:07:28 the problem is not easy to fix Jul 01 08:07:59 oh that's the NSS problem, sergio ? Jul 01 08:08:12 sergio, Since openssl is being shipped, why don't we use that instead? Jul 01 08:08:27 sergio: are there .debs or may be an .install file for newer versions? Jul 01 08:08:32 pvanhoof dape is working on that Jul 01 08:08:41 problem is tinymail leaves some threads alive Jul 01 08:08:46 when camel_shutdown is called Jul 01 08:08:52 Moving to openssl? or fixing the nss problems? Jul 01 08:08:52 and NSS does not like it at all Jul 01 08:09:08 * RST38h is fling two more modest bugs Jul 01 08:09:15 Still feels like nss bugs to me :( Jul 01 08:09:28 sergio; Why are you leaving any threads running at all? Jul 01 08:09:39 RST38h, dape is fixing it, he said Jul 01 08:09:43 (and do you really need to use threads just to fetch email?) Jul 01 08:09:58 RST38h well tinymail does not wait for some threads to close Jul 01 08:10:02 like the idle thread in imap Jul 01 08:10:10 RST38h, camel has a blocking IO design, there's no other way Jul 01 08:10:12 or a thread used for logins in POP Jul 01 08:10:30 so we're developing some code to properly close those threads Jul 01 08:10:34 before the shutdown Jul 01 08:11:03 and regarding newer packages Jul 01 08:11:09 Didn't dape committed a patch recently in tinymail for that? I remember he did. Perhaps it's not yet in the packages? Jul 01 08:11:14 modest.garage.maemo.org had weekly releases Jul 01 08:11:19 aha Jul 01 08:11:28 although they were for chinook Jul 01 08:11:37 I don't know if packages for diablo are available Jul 01 08:11:49 pvanhoof yes there were some patches Jul 01 08:11:54 but there is still a problem in POP Jul 01 08:12:00 the wait for login thread Jul 01 08:12:04 could be alive as well Jul 01 08:12:06 oh ic Jul 01 08:12:20 I don't think nss should crash for that Jul 01 08:12:24 but anyway :) Jul 01 08:12:24 dape told me that he's cooking some kind of shutdown code Jul 01 08:12:39 but as you know Jul 01 08:12:48 locking in camel is quite....messy Jul 01 08:12:51 :) Jul 01 08:12:53 *nods* Jul 01 08:12:56 pvanhoof: Why not just wait for IO to complete? Jul 01 08:12:59 camel is ... quite messy Jul 01 08:13:09 RST38h we can not block the UI Jul 01 08:13:11 RST38h, because users usually want their UI to get updated Jul 01 08:13:11 never :-) Jul 01 08:13:26 sergio,pvanhoof: Yes, but it is the background mail fetch process - it shows NO UI! Jul 01 08:13:46 they both use the same code Jul 01 08:13:51 almost Jul 01 08:13:55 BTW, look at #3358 - it is not critical but weird Jul 01 08:13:58 Can you specify more than one distribution in the distribution field? So, taking maemo Extras, rather than having two entries, or changing the default entry to "chinook" can you get away with "chinook diablo"? Jul 01 08:14:07 GA: No :( Jul 01 08:14:29 GeneralAntilles, in an install file? or in app manager? Jul 01 08:14:30 * RST38h tried it yesterday, no luck Jul 01 08:14:51 Application manager. Jul 01 08:15:02 RST38h does it only happen with Modest? Jul 01 08:15:08 sergio: Yep Jul 01 08:15:26 It *may* happen with some other apps but I did not find any Jul 01 08:15:33 quite weird indeed Jul 01 08:15:42 anyway we'll take a look Jul 01 08:15:45 it may be hildon related rather than Modest though Jul 01 08:15:45 * GeneralAntilles is testing out having a .install undisable Extras. Jul 01 08:15:47 thx for the reports Jul 01 08:15:57 that's why I asked for other apps Jul 01 08:16:04 Also BT keyboard is suspiciously lagging, even if CPU is not doing anything useful Jul 01 08:16:18 It lags for *all* apps. Jul 01 08:19:17 even normal USB keyboard lags in Maemo Jul 01 08:19:24 I don't know the reason, but the lag is noticeable Jul 01 08:19:30 OK, the .install will undisable Extras (Application manager says, "Catalog already installed but disabled. Enable now? maemo Extras") Jul 01 08:19:55 what lag with the USB keyboard? Jul 01 08:20:12 when you press a key, it appears in terminal after some time Jul 01 08:20:17 say 0.2seconds or so Jul 01 08:20:24 ok, fwiw mxr should go live today. it would have been live already, but for me being a bit sleepy Jul 01 08:22:03 Oh Jul 01 08:22:11 I didn't really notice it 'till you pointed it out Jul 01 08:23:06 ^ slow typist Jul 01 08:23:42 So I need something that looks like this: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/extras.install somewhere on that I can link to from the Extras wiki page. Jul 01 08:23:49 Sorry that I don't match your 100WPM, GeneralAntilles Jul 01 08:23:54 s/on/on maemo.org/ Jul 01 08:23:54 GeneralAntilles meant: So I need something that looks like this: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/extras.install somewhere on maemo.org that I can link to from the Extras wiki page. Jul 01 08:25:03 GeneralAntilles: Shall I put it in the extras-assistant tree somewhere? Jul 01 08:25:38 X-Fade, up to you. Wherever you think is good. Jul 01 08:27:24 GeneralAntilles: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/install/extras.install Jul 01 08:27:40 Excellent, thanks! Jul 01 08:27:57 Do you want one for extras-devel too? Jul 01 08:29:34 I was thinking it might be useful to have a "have to set up Extras-devel yourself" barrier-to-entry for that, but, yeah, we should probably have one for Extras-devel. Jul 01 08:30:14 We shouldn't promote -devel to regular users, so perhaps we don't need it ;) Jul 01 08:31:09 * GeneralAntilles files a typo bug against Application manager. Jul 01 08:31:21 GeneralAntilles: PATCH :) Jul 01 08:31:46 * GeneralAntilles is not ready to dive into that just yet. Jul 01 08:31:54 lol Jul 01 08:32:32 Part of the reason I didn't want to pick up the Application manager stuff yesterday is that I'd like to see it pushed by somebody who's actually going to submit patches. ;) Jul 01 08:32:57 Yeah, I got that. Jul 01 08:33:21 Well, it is good to have a non programmer manager, but we would also need some coders :) Jul 01 08:34:10 Yeah, that's true. Jul 01 08:34:30 But I'm worried about me pushing something like that and ending with something that nobody actually uses. Jul 01 08:41:32 X-Fade: you are finally changing app manager? =) Jul 01 08:42:51 RST38h, the idea is to get the community involved in improving Application manager. Jul 01 08:43:15 Opening up a testing repository for community patches, etc. Jul 01 08:43:27 ah Jul 01 08:43:47 So you have gone beyond that initial design mockup? Jul 01 08:43:55 Me? No. Jul 01 08:44:10 plural "you" =) Jul 01 08:44:28 It's just getting started. Jul 01 08:44:44 RST38h, if you want to help push this community side, the task still needs a coordinator. :D Jul 01 08:45:12 if I want to try and build libc-dev, should I add diablo-extras-devel to take into account worked dependencies ? Jul 01 08:45:17 Or just do *everything* myself ? Jul 01 08:45:20 GA: I am not in the position of taking any more work right now Jul 01 08:45:25 :P Jul 01 08:45:32 RST38h: Nokia likes some of the ideas that GA proposed, but the community would have to implement it as they don't have it on the roadmap at the moment. Jul 01 08:45:36 GA: 8 hours work + 3.5 hours commute + family Jul 01 08:46:06 Barely have time to move my own projects ahead Jul 01 08:46:16 The idea would be for the community to work on a branch in the application manager svn repository on garage. Jul 01 08:46:35 *cough*movetogit*cough* Jul 01 08:46:39 X-Fade: Have you seen the final version of PackRat I have done? Jul 01 08:46:43 We could even release an application-manager-experimental on extras ;) Jul 01 08:47:03 or -devel, actually. Jul 01 08:47:10 RST38h: No, I haven't. Jul 01 08:47:19 X-Fade: http://ageofikon.info/packrat/ Jul 01 08:47:51 X-Fade: It may be worth doing something similar (but of course less web-oriented) in App manager Jul 01 08:48:37 RST38h: Well, you know.. We don't even need to have application manager as package selection program ;) Jul 01 08:48:57 You could do it all on a web page.. Jul 01 08:49:44 I don't think having 2 bazillion repos is a good thing actually Jul 01 08:49:50 RST38h: Btw, where can I select distribution? Jul 01 08:49:56 crashanddie: Me neither ;) Jul 01 08:50:20 X-Fade: just select the base OSD Jul 01 08:50:21 OS Jul 01 08:50:33 RST38h: yeah, but that is not enough ;) Jul 01 08:50:37 X-Fade: it pulls lists from Gronmayer which uses OS version Jul 01 08:50:51 X-Fade: I know, will probably extend it later Jul 01 08:51:22 it pulls a list on each script call? Jul 01 08:51:41 Hrm, OK, quick poll. If you open up Application manager and go to the Tools menu, you see "Application catalog...". Should catalog be plural or not? Jul 01 08:51:42 crash: Well, it is not something we can change at the moment. In fact, I suspect the repos will just multiply because it became so difficult to commit stuff to extras Jul 01 08:51:47 The dialog it opens is "Catalogs" Jul 01 08:51:59 GeneralAntilles, plural Jul 01 08:52:13 So I guess it depends on whether the "catalog" is an individual repository or the sum of all repositories. Jul 01 08:52:22 X-Fade: We do need an app manager because web site has no idea of what you have installed Jul 01 08:52:25 Its a catalog of possible repositories Jul 01 08:52:35 GeneralAntilles, I always read it as catalog synonym for repo Jul 01 08:52:59 crashanddie, so did I. Jul 01 08:53:11 But filling this bug, I just thought about it like they probably intended it. Jul 01 08:53:15 GA: catalogS Jul 01 08:53:40 Honestly, it'd probably be better off as "repositories" since that's how it's referred to pretty much everywhere in the community. Jul 01 08:53:47 If it were a repo catalog, it would say Repository Catalog Jul 01 08:53:53 the biggest thing I miss in app manager is the ability to check a lot of apps and install them all at once Jul 01 08:53:55 I'm not sure what term the official docs use, though. Jul 01 08:53:55 plus Jul 01 08:54:13 Just keep it Catalogs Jul 01 08:54:19 zap, agreed Jul 01 08:54:24 Joe User has no idea what repo is Jul 01 08:54:34 zap, but that's where apt-get comes in handy (for the moment) Jul 01 08:54:44 Same really goes for "catalog", though. Jul 01 08:55:31 but there is only one of those catalogs Jul 01 08:55:42 especially for Joe User Jul 01 08:55:44 zap: o yes Jul 01 08:55:48 crashanddie: I don't want apt-get, I want point-and-click :) Jul 01 08:56:12 so it cant be plural imo Jul 01 08:56:15 Either the menu entry needs to be changed, or the repository dialog needs to be changed to be consistent with itself. Jul 01 08:56:45 macoute, what does the dialog that comes up when you tap "Application catalog..." say? Jul 01 08:56:52 and the list of app groups is bogus, and apps with similar basename should be grouped Jul 01 08:57:07 zap, packaging issue. Jul 01 08:57:59 Boingo and Canola both need to be slapped. Jul 01 08:58:56 GeneralAntilles: Catalogs, but that is quite right Jul 01 08:59:06 macoute, it can't be both. Jul 01 08:59:15 as it is a catalog, which contains catalogs Jul 01 08:59:17 GA: Well if they don't know what catalog is, I do not care Jul 01 08:59:19 perhaps it's packaging issue, but I'd rather prefer to group packages by repo Jul 01 08:59:22 Either the catalog is the sum off all repositories or it's an individual repository. Jul 01 08:59:26 but the actual catalog is only one catalog, which contain all the apps Jul 01 08:59:33 And it is CATALOGUE! (evil cackling) Jul 01 08:59:42 macoute, that is ridiculously confusing. Jul 01 08:59:54 but actually, i think the reason is that it has been translated from finnish Jul 01 09:00:55 in finnish it is 'sovellusluettelo' -> 'Luettelot', which is literally the same than in english but is maybe even more 'right' said Jul 01 09:01:02 or alternatively, App manager should have a hard-coded list of app groups, and not show packages which use wrong app groups; this will force devs to fix their packages Jul 01 09:01:19 zap, check the -developers discussions on this Jul 01 09:01:27 zap, hard coded would be wrong Jul 01 09:01:39 I can understand Canola's motivations for putting all their stuff in one category Jul 01 09:01:39 zap, but yeah, people need to stop adding libs to mainstream categories Jul 01 09:01:49 but all it really manages to due is further invalidate the whole category system. Jul 01 09:02:02 libraries don't go in User/ Jul 01 09:02:33 Either a userspace application depends on them, or you're a dev and can figure out how to install it from apt-get. Jul 01 09:02:40 Anything else is somebody's bad packaging. Jul 01 09:02:41 though, I also understand that it's frustrating that when you port a lib, AppManager will refuse to install it, because it's not in User/ Jul 01 09:02:56 but that doesn't mean it should end up there Jul 01 09:03:05 It will install it just fine as a dependency. Jul 01 09:03:11 yeah Jul 01 09:03:24 though you'll probably won't even notice :P Jul 01 09:03:57 That's why sometimes app manager is confusing... You see two apps, requiring both 5M of disk space... Install the first, the second only uses 0.2M worth of space Jul 01 09:04:19 ~lart daytimelifeingeneral Jul 01 09:04:19 * infobot takes a large goose feather pillow and swings it wildly in daytimelifeingeneral's direction, hitting daytimelifeingeneral and sending daytimelifeingeneral flying into the closet Jul 01 09:04:33 ok Jul 01 09:04:38 * lcuk feels better now Jul 01 09:04:42 now that I'm done with studying Jul 01 09:04:50 I need to get my CV done, and start spamming recruiters Jul 01 09:05:39 2008-~: faffed about in irc Jul 01 09:06:49 hmm Jul 01 09:06:49 crashanddie, :) you have a degree, you have experience and examples available. you are free to roam where you need to :) best of luck Jul 01 09:07:00 1994 - current, IRC is my life Jul 01 09:08:02 lcuk, if I didn't know better, I'd almost say "likewise lcuk" Jul 01 09:09:20 and i'd almost agree with you Jul 01 09:09:50 anyway, i only bobbed in to moan about my day so far, back later Jul 01 09:10:25 crashanddie: What kind of job are you looking for? Jul 01 09:10:49 anders_, development Jul 01 09:11:02 anders_, in a perfect world, I'd say in the mobile computing industry Jul 01 09:11:18 2/wii crashanddie Jul 01 09:11:23 anders_, but as long as it's challenging, cutting edge, and in the UK, I'll take it Jul 01 09:12:20 crashanddie: Too bad it has to be in the UK. Jul 01 09:12:29 crashanddie: which kind of job? Jul 01 09:13:01 anders_, well, I'm in France, and planned to move to the UK Jul 01 09:13:08 anders_, so the UK would be awesome Jul 01 09:16:22 erm.... does anybody have an idea about why Diablo would sometimes fail at network detection on my N800? Jul 01 09:22:48 Anybody want to write up a little more about Extras? http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Jul 01 09:28:00 GA: Editing Jul 01 09:29:15 btw, how can I see who registered this channel? ;) Jul 01 09:29:36 Or at least who can get ops :) Jul 01 09:30:30 /msg chanserv access #maemo list Jul 01 09:31:00 (Why am I not surprised to find c0ffee on there.) Jul 01 09:31:45 A florian is in that list too, right? Jul 01 09:32:03 s/A/Ah,/ Jul 01 09:32:03 X-Fade meant: Ah, florian is in that list too, right? Jul 01 09:34:39 ~seen florian Jul 01 09:34:43 florian was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 10h 52m 52s ago, saying: 'right, try to flash a new image first'. Jul 01 09:35:05 X-Fade, I've got a staffer you can talk to if you want. Jul 01 09:35:36 I see a lot of names in there that don't come here anymore.. Jul 01 09:35:56 So perhaps it is good to add some more current accounts.. Jul 01 09:36:15 Do you have access? Jul 01 09:36:23 No. Jul 01 09:36:39 I nominate you for founder access if you can get it. ;) Jul 01 09:36:53 hand out another dozen or so op-access? Jul 01 09:37:18 I mean, not that the channel actually needs ops. Jul 01 09:37:32 But it'd be nice to kick the spammers we seem to get every few weeks or so. Jul 01 09:37:53 *!n=tk@*.adsl.netsonic.fi entry in #maemo access is big hole... Jul 01 09:38:23 anyone with net from that ISP can get op here... Jul 01 09:38:44 no Jul 01 09:38:46 True. Jul 01 09:38:53 There is no name registered there. Jul 01 09:39:35 we had such situation on #openzaurus Jul 01 09:39:36 you need to be authed, and have tk as identd :P Jul 01 09:39:57 Well that is not hard.. Jul 01 09:40:14 ~seen me Jul 01 09:40:15 me was last seen on IRC in channel #kde, 4d 16h 29m 31s ago, saying: 'whatsup?'. Jul 01 09:40:24 holy Jul 01 09:41:35 GA: I edited it a little bit. Also, I think we should remove Quim Gil quote from there Jul 01 09:41:56 RST38h, with you there. Jul 01 09:42:00 removing Jul 01 09:42:15 QG quote ? Jul 01 09:42:33 https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Extras&oldid=3634 Jul 01 09:42:42 RST38h, remember to login. :P Jul 01 09:43:41 GA: BTW, Chinook Extras .install link is a dummy right now Jul 01 09:44:05 If there is a real one, put its URL there (I do not know the URL) Jul 01 09:44:42 I think the Chinook Extras issue is covered well enough at the end of the link. Jul 01 09:44:51 No need to dupe it onto the Extras page. Jul 01 09:45:15 mmm...maybe Jul 01 09:45:33 I just think that 90% of people will never follow the link and will go and complain onITT instead Jul 01 09:45:49 probably true, yeah Jul 01 09:46:17 I will make a little change to the page though Jul 01 09:48:02 Done Jul 01 09:48:23 How about: "Note that there is currently (July 08) a minor problem with Diablo Extras. Fortunately, most Chinook application packages will run without a glitch on Diablo, so you should use Chinook Extras until proper Diablo Extras repository comes online. ''See the Diablo Extras section of [[Upgrading tablet OS#Diabo_Extras|upgrading tablet OS]] for instructions.''" ? Jul 01 09:48:48 Yep, this should also do the job Jul 01 09:57:02 OK, updated: https://wiki.maemo.org/Upgrading_tablet_OS#Diablo_Extras and revised: https://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Jul 01 09:57:04 Thanks, RST38h! Jul 01 09:59:07 X-Fade, you want that staffer? Jul 01 09:59:26 GeneralAntilles: Sure. Jul 01 10:00:38 hi there X-Fade Jul 01 10:00:53 looks like the beahviour is the same on chinook builder: Jul 01 10:00:56 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/chinook/free/s/sword/ Jul 01 10:02:26 * GeneralAntilles slaps milhouse with a trout. Jul 01 10:02:29 Sign your comments. :P Jul 01 10:12:19 . Jul 01 10:17:08 .. gomiam Jul 01 10:17:28 XD Jul 01 10:17:42 I was checking my local alias wrapper worked correctly Jul 01 10:19:40 dneary, like the turnaround on Root access? ;) Jul 01 10:19:48 GeneralAntilles: Ineded :) Jul 01 10:19:50 Thank you! Jul 01 10:20:01 I spotted that you did (almost) all the work on that one Jul 01 10:20:40 Mostly asking if I should delete parts in here, getting positive replies and deleting them. :D Jul 01 10:21:01 how about adding some more lines to topic so that we could even have more text in topic which we cant see easily? Jul 01 10:21:31 macoute, /topic Jul 01 10:21:43 GeneralAntilles: i know that one, but is it handy? :P Jul 01 10:22:02 I agree with macoute Jul 01 10:22:07 We need to clean out the topic Jul 01 10:22:19 OK - let's clean out Quim's LinuxTag update Jul 01 10:22:32 my irssi on fullscreen stops topic in maemo-irclog-link Jul 01 10:22:41 You can probably dump the freedesktop.org link. Jul 01 10:23:06 Hopefully the dns for timeless's like will be in place soon, so that will be getting smaller. Jul 01 10:24:03 GeneralAntilles: I filled in the form to become a channel contact, let's see if that helps. Jul 01 10:24:03 Hey, can we talk anybody into forking becomeroot or something and taking responsibility for packaging it and uploading it to Extras? Jul 01 10:24:49 As the becomeroot developer seems to be disappeared and ag2 of nitapps.com doesn't seem to want to upload to Extras. Jul 01 10:25:08 Is there a bot we can teach factoids to? Jul 01 10:25:19 infobot, hi Jul 01 10:25:19 hello, generalantilles Jul 01 10:25:26 Well now. My N810 has beet sitting at Nokia for almost a month now.. Jul 01 10:25:30 The IRC logs, FAQ and package repository lists could go there Jul 01 10:25:31 ~dneary is the maemo.org docmaster Jul 01 10:25:31 GeneralAntilles: okay Jul 01 10:25:36 Not really convincing. Jul 01 10:25:38 ~dneary Jul 01 10:25:39 i guess dneary is the maemo.org docmaster Jul 01 10:26:19 _monkey was a better factoid bot Jul 01 10:26:21 but he's dead. :( Jul 01 10:26:37 infobot collides with a lot of other channels. Jul 01 10:26:38 ~logs is IRC channels are logged at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog Jul 01 10:26:39 ...but logs is already something else... Jul 01 10:26:42 So you get stuff like Jul 01 10:26:43 er, yeah Jul 01 10:26:44 like that Jul 01 10:26:45 ~logs Jul 01 10:26:46 rumour has it, logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org// where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/.html.gz Jul 01 10:26:47 and ~Root Jul 01 10:26:55 ~root Jul 01 10:26:56 root is, like, not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account. Jul 01 10:27:19 ~maemo-logs Jul 01 10:27:21 guys - *remember* that infobot is not only #maemo Jul 01 10:27:36 We could really use a real maemo bot. Jul 01 10:27:42 hrw: I didn't know infobot before 2 minutes ago - how could I remember? ;) Jul 01 10:27:54 ~infobot Jul 01 10:27:54 hrw, I love abuse, feed me!, or an interactive bot that can learn all sorts of information (http://www.infobot.org/) Jul 01 10:28:16 ~emulate hrw Jul 01 10:28:17 * infobot I cannot be emulated Jul 01 10:28:21 ~maemo-logs is IRC channels are logged at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog Jul 01 10:28:22 okay, dneary Jul 01 10:28:28 Thanks infobot Jul 01 10:28:40 I want a bugzilla bot for #maemo-bugs Jul 01 10:29:20 Actually, I'm in favor of removing gronmayer. Jul 01 10:29:22 w0t! diablo released? Jul 01 10:29:24 GeneralAntilles: talk with CoreDump - his cdbot handle OpenEmbedded bugzilla and did Openmoko bugzilla Jul 01 10:31:02 A good, actively maintained supybot install would solve our bot issues pretty well. Jul 01 10:32:10 dneary: Can you please stop crossposting between multiple lists? Jul 01 10:32:32 It seemed appropriate for the wiki page of the day to go to both user & developer lists... Jul 01 10:32:39 dneary: If you must post to 2 lists, please to that in 2 separate mails. Jul 01 10:32:57 Really? But then replies will only go to one of the lists Jul 01 10:33:10 Yes. that is the point. Jul 01 10:33:16 Crossposting is evil.; Jul 01 10:33:21 and some replies will get lost then Jul 01 10:33:27 In general, of course, I agree with you, but I'm working on the assumption that lots of people on -developers are not on -users Jul 01 10:33:37 I think we're likely in the majority, us two Jul 01 10:33:40 I avoid any -users list Jul 01 10:33:44 s/majority/minority Jul 01 10:33:55 Generally quite correct, since -users expands to "oh my I can't read the faq" Jul 01 10:34:02 Ha Jul 01 10:34:19 or "I have all these stupid assumptions about how stuff works and how I think things should work, let me rant about it for 3 pages" Jul 01 10:34:20 (This is invariant of the actual project involved.) Jul 01 10:34:42 (assumptions that usually have very little to do with reality) Jul 01 10:35:25 GeneralAntilles: Leave the poor users alone, without them what would we all have to complain about? ;) Jul 01 10:35:39 Nokia. *g* Jul 01 10:36:07 yeah, good point :) Jul 01 10:36:09 Which we generally do quite loudly. Jul 01 10:36:11 hehehe - wild mice: http://flickr.com/photos/fizzlefish/2323314453/ Jul 01 10:36:43 ~lart WinXP for copy&paste not working any more Jul 01 10:36:43 * infobot gives WinXP a "free" copy of Windows and then charges double for "Upgrades" for copy&paste not working any more Jul 01 10:36:57 inspired choice of insult infobot :) Jul 01 10:37:02 Indeed :) Jul 01 10:40:59 Who wants to object to my politically-motivated move to remove gronmayer from the topic? Jul 01 10:41:26 -users. Jul 01 10:41:50 ~gronmayer is a Maemo repository indexer located at http://www.gronmayer.com/it Jul 01 10:41:51 ...but gronmayer is already something else... Jul 01 10:41:56 ~gronmayer Jul 01 10:41:57 it has been said that gronmayer is an index of maemo/ITOS repositories http://gronmayer.com/it Jul 01 10:42:09 ~no gronmayer is a Maemo repository indexer located at http://www.gronmayer.com/it Jul 01 10:42:10 okay, GeneralAntilles Jul 01 10:42:19 GeneralAntilles: pilotically motivated why? Jul 01 10:42:28 *politically Jul 01 10:42:32 Because non-Extras repositories mostly need to die. ;) Jul 01 10:42:39 ah :) Jul 01 10:42:41 and gronmayer helps keep them in business. Jul 01 10:43:01 fair enough Jul 01 10:43:09 * aquatix doesn't object Jul 01 10:44:47 die++ Jul 01 10:46:29 So be it. Jul 01 10:46:53 it can be even improved Jul 01 10:47:20 create http://wiki.maemo.org/Wiki_Page_of_the_day page and list in topic Jul 01 10:48:04 http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:Wiki_Page_of_the_day Jul 01 10:48:09 Er Jul 01 10:48:16 There WAS a category there. Jul 01 10:48:37 http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:Wiki_page_of_the_day Jul 01 10:48:38 Ah Jul 01 10:49:07 GeneralAntilles: Are there plans to change the wiki link on the main page to point to the new wiki directly? Jul 01 10:50:07 lardman, it was discussed yesterday, I believe. Jul 01 10:50:15 In dneary's hands, I think. Jul 01 10:50:21 GeneralAntilles: ok, I'll have a look at the log Jul 01 10:50:46 GeneralAntilles: Also, is there a HowTo about importing from the old to the new? I need to import the DSP Programming page Jul 01 10:51:10 Move it, change the syntax to mediawiki Jul 01 10:51:28 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemowiki_Action_Group#Midgard_migration Jul 01 10:51:56 hmm, no copy & paste Jul 01 10:51:59 let me restart Jul 01 10:52:45 that's better Jul 01 10:53:26 GeneralAntilles: Regarding the syntax, you pointed me at a wikipedia page last time, is this still where to look? Jul 01 10:53:40 The wikipedia cheatsheet. Jul 01 10:53:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet Jul 01 10:54:05 cool, thanks Jul 01 10:54:37 Just keep hitting preview until it looks right. ;) Jul 01 10:55:01 GeneralAntilles: hmm, I'd prefer to write once and forget :) Jul 01 10:56:40 Did anybody try the new fennec milestone? http://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Fennec/Releases Jul 01 10:57:57 There's a thread on itT Jul 01 10:58:01 It seems to be mostly unusable. Jul 01 10:58:08 ITT? ;-) Jul 01 10:58:09 X-Fade: hola. Jul 01 10:58:41 melmoth: Hi.. Jul 01 10:58:41 X-Fade: remember the sword issue on autobuilder ? The problem also occurs on the chinook extra-devel autobuilder. Jul 01 10:59:08 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/chinook/free/s/sword/ Jul 01 10:59:12 melmoth: Hmm ok let me check. Jul 01 10:59:13 Jaffa, they seem to have gotten it installed at least. :D Jul 01 11:07:39 Jaffa: You might want to check dpkg-genbuilddeps Jul 01 11:08:51 Ooh, X-Fade, maemo.org cloaks? :D Jul 01 11:09:14 Hehe. Jul 01 11:19:04 X-Fade: ta Jul 01 11:41:41 Slightly OT, but what does it mean when I see "Servicing ident request from xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx" (replace xxx with some IP address) at the bottom of my screen? Jul 01 11:43:01 that ip requested your ident Jul 01 11:43:13 generally, irc networks do so Jul 01 11:43:34 aquatix: ah, so it would be another client, or could it be from outside? Jul 01 11:43:43 both Jul 01 11:43:59 :) Jul 01 11:44:13 aquatix: Cool, as it comes from my uni network, I was wondering what was going on Jul 01 11:44:41 ah, might be someone running ident requests to all ip's he/she can find Jul 01 11:46:26 <``Cube> hello, I'd like to participate in the logo contest but have a question Jul 01 11:46:55 <``Cube> I know I should ask to ask, but is anyone active here? Jul 01 11:47:47 ``Cube: ask away Jul 01 11:48:14 <``Cube> lardman: I'm 15 ;) when I win, will I be able to receive the price? Jul 01 11:48:39 ``Cube: Was it a) alcoholic b) involving strip clubs? Jul 01 11:48:52 If neither of the above, then I guess so :) Jul 01 11:48:53 it isn't? Jul 01 11:48:57 <``Cube> hahaha :D that logo? Jul 01 11:49:23 <``Cube> uhh, mdk is offline Jul 01 11:49:40 ``Cube: Probably best to ask in the therad on ITT unless someone like X-Fade knows? Jul 01 11:49:52 It was answered on the talk page a while ago. Jul 01 11:50:07 <``Cube> really? may I have the link, GeneralAntilles? Jul 01 11:51:28 I can't find it Jul 01 11:51:36 dneary or somebody deleted it for some reason, I think. Jul 01 11:51:47 The issue is not Nokia-side, anyway. Jul 01 11:52:07 There are no problems from them awarding it to an underaged participant. Jul 01 11:52:17 ``Cube: You can enter, but the flight might be a problem. Jul 01 11:52:29 ``Cube: As you are probably not allowed to fly by yourself. Jul 01 11:52:42 http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo.org_logo_contest Jul 01 11:52:45 It's somewhere in the history there. Jul 01 11:52:55 * lardman forgot about the flight part Jul 01 11:53:02 <``Cube> yea, searching the whole site now :) Jul 01 11:53:36 You wont find it in the search Jul 01 11:53:40 <``Cube> you people mean this? Jul 01 11:53:41 Gotta hit the page history for that talk page. Jul 01 11:53:43 <``Cube> not searching Jul 01 11:53:47 <``Cube> searching with my eyes Jul 01 11:53:51 <``Cube> "No age restrictions apply to submission, but some prizes may not be feasible for underage contestants. " Jul 01 11:53:58 <``Cube> I knew that, but I wanted more information Jul 01 11:54:01 <``Cube> "not feasible" Jul 01 11:54:03 The issue would be with the airlines. Jul 01 11:54:06 and maybe your parents. Jul 01 11:54:26 Airlines always used to take underage passengers Jul 01 11:54:35 <``Cube> alright, but not with the tablet? Jul 01 11:54:42 Yeah, it shouldn't be a problem, lardman. Jul 01 11:54:46 But no telling these days. Jul 01 11:54:58 ``Cube, there are no age-issues Nokia-side. Jul 01 11:55:14 <``Cube> eh, there is one submission making the whole effort useless, it's just perfect in any csae Jul 01 11:55:16 <``Cube> *case Jul 01 11:56:46 Where are these submissions displayed? Jul 01 11:56:58 <``Cube> yea Jul 01 11:57:08 <``Cube> that's plain stupid, sorry for offending someone Jul 01 11:57:58 http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo.org_logo_contest Jul 01 11:59:09 ``Cube: http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo.org_logo_contest#Submitting_entries see the comment by qgil Jul 01 11:59:33 GeneralAntilles: I was meaning the submitted ones, but I guess they won't be shown in case someone copies them, etc Jul 01 12:00:55 <``Cube> lardman|lunch: umm, which? Jul 01 12:01:01 lardman|lunch, huh? Jul 01 12:01:18 <``Cube> he confused us and espaced Jul 01 12:01:32 * lcuk_wrk calls an airstrike to gps coords [me] + 3 metres to the right Jul 01 12:01:37 Am still here just about Jul 01 12:01:44 <``Cube> aight Jul 01 12:01:46 hi lardman Jul 01 12:01:54 GeneralAntilles: I wanted to see the sumbitted entries Jul 01 12:01:59 hi lcuk_wrk Jul 01 12:02:03 Ha Jul 01 12:02:16 lardman|lunch, my clipboard was being slow. Jul 01 12:02:17 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_logo_contest_submissions Jul 01 12:02:18 GeneralAntilles: I have no intention of sumbitting one, so it was an innocent mistake Jul 01 12:02:25 Tried to paste that, but was too fast for my own good. ;) Jul 01 12:02:59 oh, they are available, cool Jul 01 12:03:35 * lcuk_wrk wonders if military lasers can be hacked and controlled Jul 01 12:03:49 ``Cube: There's a comment from qgil at the top of the section that that link brings you to Jul 01 12:04:08 <``Cube> ah, alright Jul 01 12:04:25 hi all Jul 01 12:04:34 Really off to lunch now, bbl Jul 01 12:04:50 Another rainy day. Jul 01 12:05:07 lcuk_wrk: your right or mine? Jul 01 12:05:23 <``Cube> ye see you! Jul 01 12:05:37 aquatix, i can upload a photo from my 810 to clarify location of annoying cow orker Jul 01 12:06:04 lcuk_wrk: sure Jul 01 12:06:21 * aquatix loves that default typo btw Jul 01 12:06:46 oh sorry, my mistake, i meant annoying wanker Jul 01 12:06:58 Damnable cow orkers Jul 01 12:07:54 * lcuk_wrk facepalms Jul 01 12:08:11 beam me up, scotty Jul 01 12:08:20 * aquatix beams railgun down Jul 01 12:08:30 :D bonus Jul 01 12:08:32 will that do? Jul 01 12:09:04 already sorted :) i think it will be a peaceful afternoon Jul 01 12:09:13 yay Jul 01 12:09:22 * aquatix is getting cooked Jul 01 12:09:30 offices should have mandatory airco Jul 01 12:09:38 yes Jul 01 12:09:46 mandatory powerful AC Jul 01 12:09:52 agreed totally aquatix Jul 01 12:09:59 i think it's at least 22 or 23C Jul 01 12:10:11 not *that* warm, but sleep-inducing warm Jul 01 12:10:24 no, i think it's even warmer than that Jul 01 12:10:33 we have AC here but it can't quite handle the 6 or so computers we have here in this small office (two-person office) Jul 01 12:10:41 doesn't the n810 have an ambient temp sensor or something? ;) Jul 01 12:10:46 They do over here. ;) Jul 01 12:10:51 (the room, that is, not the whole office space) Jul 01 12:10:56 aquatix: Yes, in the lcd. Jul 01 12:11:14 X-Fade: no kidding Jul 01 12:11:15 ? Jul 01 12:11:21 * aquatix looks in /sys Jul 01 12:11:24 No. not kidding. Jul 01 12:11:24 or wherever Jul 01 12:11:33 And probably in the battery too. Jul 01 12:12:14 nitapps.com has a temperature program Jul 01 12:12:19 Khertan put up a home applet. Jul 01 12:12:59 aquatix, push for your boss to let you work from the park down the road. get wireless connection Jul 01 12:13:49 i *think* my navy boss won't like that Jul 01 12:14:01 :D waterproof laptop Jul 01 12:14:23 get an asus blub blub blub Jul 01 12:16:56 more like `what about the secure intranet?' Jul 01 12:17:10 wifi isn't compatible with that concept ;) Jul 01 12:19:43 aquatix, get them to build you a secure park with hardwired on the roof Jul 01 12:20:52 aquatix: vpn over wifi Jul 01 12:20:56 <|tbb|> hi all, Jul 01 12:21:13 lcuk_wrk: hm :) Jul 01 12:21:26 <|tbb|> is there a module available to use nat on n810 Jul 01 12:21:26 but i somehow guess that's even warmer in the sun Jul 01 12:21:29 lbt, secure data should not be transmitted over wireless links if i understand correctly Jul 01 12:21:47 lcuk_wrk: it's ok if it's in a secure tunnel Jul 01 12:21:58 a Really Secure VPN(tm) might suffice Jul 01 12:22:03 not sure :) Jul 01 12:22:05 not really, eaves droppers could capture packets and work offline Jul 01 12:22:20 doesn't matter Jul 01 12:22:33 it might take 1000 years to decrypt, but thats still less than having a totally secure wired lan Jul 01 12:22:34 same goes for any VPN/tunnel over the internet Jul 01 12:22:45 lbt: indeed Jul 01 12:22:46 ha-ha Jul 01 12:23:02 just how hard is it to get into your building and tap the LAN? Jul 01 12:23:07 except that our intranet is seperate from the internet of course Jul 01 12:23:10 could I do it in <1000yrs? Jul 01 12:23:10 its military Jul 01 12:23:15 could I do it in <1000yrs? Jul 01 12:23:24 lbt: if you have a smart card and look innocent :) Jul 01 12:23:30 * aquatix should shut up Jul 01 12:23:30 indeed... Jul 01 12:23:52 then again, you will have to have rights and log in Jul 01 12:24:11 so kidnap someone's family, then what? Jul 01 12:24:19 anyway aquatix :) you already said navy, theres no parks in the centre of the atlantic Jul 01 12:24:30 lcuk_wrk: thankfully i don't work there ;) Jul 01 12:24:33 entire convo is moot Jul 01 12:24:38 but diving cools you down Jul 01 12:24:41 * aquatix is just a lousy government worker Jul 01 12:24:54 in an office at the harbour Jul 01 12:24:54 with access to railguns Jul 01 12:24:59 lcuk_wrk: ha, i wish Jul 01 12:25:10 :D water pistols? Jul 01 12:25:16 :S nerf guns? Jul 01 12:25:24 something like that :) Jul 01 12:25:31 and the software of the ships Jul 01 12:25:35 Jul 01 12:25:36 ;) Jul 01 12:25:37 :( wet paper towels Jul 01 12:25:39 ghehe Jul 01 12:26:17 why does this remind me of slashdot http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_shivankan_04.png Jul 01 12:26:25 we thought about getting nerf guns just a few days ago Jul 01 12:26:48 you should search for the great office war Jul 01 12:27:58 lcuk_wrk: what do you think induced that idea? ;) Jul 01 12:28:06 about us getting nerf guns ;) Jul 01 12:29:00 :D Jul 01 12:31:57 * lcuk_wrk gets back to (peaceful) work Jul 01 12:32:06 back later Jul 01 12:32:42 hey, doing peaceful work too! Jul 01 12:32:54 peacefully irc'ing and researching some stuff Jul 01 12:33:28 <|tbb|> where are the logfiles of this channel stored? Jul 01 12:33:39 ~maemo-log Jul 01 12:33:46 ~maemo-irclog Jul 01 12:33:54 Infobot! Jul 01 12:34:01 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ Jul 01 12:34:02 ~logs Jul 01 12:34:03 hmm... logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org// where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/.html.gz Jul 01 12:34:06 google://maemo irc log Jul 01 12:34:13 <|tbb|> thx Jul 01 12:34:37 ~maemo-logs Jul 01 12:34:37 somebody said maemo-logs was IRC channels are logged at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog Jul 01 12:34:47 <|tbb|> GeneralAntilles: do u know if there is a module available to use nat on n8x0 Jul 01 12:35:10 the /topic used to have a link to the irc logs Jul 01 12:35:15 I always found that convenient Jul 01 12:35:19 mgedmin, it was removed to save space. Jul 01 12:35:41 Oh, and mgedmin, belated and much-deserved thanks for those. :) Jul 01 12:38:59 mgedmin: extras-devel should now have netcat in it, btw Jul 01 12:39:07 good Jul 01 12:39:16 hm, i should get nmap on my n810 Jul 01 12:39:16 why did I want it? oh, to connect to localhost:gpsd Jul 01 12:39:52 * mgedmin built a binary deb of xchat for diablo from skyhusker's svn repository, but is having some troubles producing a source package Jul 01 12:40:25 mgedmin, you planning on picking up XChat moving forward? Jul 01 12:40:57 I asked for permission to upload it to extras, yes Jul 01 12:40:58 mgedmin: Did you just try dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S Jul 01 12:41:02 ? Jul 01 12:41:19 yes Jul 01 12:41:29 And it fails? Jul 01 12:41:33 right Jul 01 12:42:06 some quilt metadata (?) interferes with dpkg-buildsource Jul 01 12:42:33 I know the workaround (rm -rf .pc), just haven't tried it yet Jul 01 12:42:41 rm -rf .svn would also be advised, I guess Jul 01 12:45:34 mgedmin: try dpkg-buildpackage ... -i (ignores lots of stuff incl. .svn) Jul 01 12:46:12 nope, tar: xchat-maemo/.pc/debian.patch/debian/xchat-locale-cs.install: Cannot open: Permission denied Jul 01 12:46:20 that's the quilt metadata, I think Jul 01 12:46:30 <|tbb|> johnx: are you around? Jul 01 12:46:40 |tbb|, yup Jul 01 12:46:50 <|tbb|> long time ;) Jul 01 12:47:08 yeah, I've been out in the real world a lot this last week Jul 01 12:47:14 what's up? Jul 01 12:47:18 <|tbb|> ive seen you have talked about iptables with nat support Jul 01 12:47:21 Jaffa: -I.pc helped Jul 01 12:47:32 <|tbb|> do you had compiled it? Jul 01 12:47:46 |tbb|, nope, but I'm sure I saw the modules somewhere Jul 01 12:47:53 I've never used it though Jul 01 12:48:10 |tbb|, do you have scratchbox? Jul 01 12:48:20 <|tbb|> nope ;( Jul 01 12:48:29 nows the time :) Jul 01 12:48:40 heh, google lucky search for "autobuilder" doesn't give me the maemo one for some reason Jul 01 12:49:03 Ha Jul 01 12:49:25 besides, I probably want extras-assistant Jul 01 12:50:00 <|tbb|> im looking for it but i havent found it. but what makes me a little bit confuse is, if i look into the application manager ive seen under installed packages iptables (info says administration tools for packet filtering and NAT?) Jul 01 12:50:50 |tbb|, that's probably the userspace config tool Jul 01 12:50:50 <|tbb|> but iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i wlan0 -p end in errors Jul 01 12:52:24 X-Fade: ta for the dpkg-genbuilddeps pointer, just testing with mud using dpkg-depcheck to auto-calculate Build-Depends Jul 01 12:52:26 tbb, what errors? Jul 01 12:52:32 perhaps you're missing kernel modules Jul 01 12:53:08 Jaffa: That would really help a lot of users. I think that is one of the mayor reasons for build failure atm. Jul 01 12:54:21 hm, the .svn files are still there in my tarball Jul 01 12:55:34 mgedmin: maybe you need -i and -i.pc? Jul 01 12:55:43 Nobody minds terrible much if I move this to Uploading to Extras, do they? https://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_extras Jul 01 12:55:52 what's the diff between -i and -I? Jul 01 12:55:58 mgedmin: sorry, -I Jul 01 12:56:05 GeneralAntilles: feel free. Mea culpa. Jul 01 12:56:31 Just, for reference, I'm unilaterally deciding that Extras should be capitalized on the wiki. :D Jul 01 12:56:45 Sounds good to me :) Jul 01 12:56:53 ah, -i is for the diff, -I is for the tarball Jul 01 12:59:32 <|tbb|> mgedmin: iptables v1.3.6: cant initalize iptables 'nat': Table does not exist (do you need to insmod?) Jul 01 13:00:11 <|tbb|> johnx what do u mean? Jul 01 13:00:14 hm... is there modprobe on the tablet? Jul 01 13:00:15 iirc no Jul 01 13:00:35 |tbb|, I mean you still need the modules Jul 01 13:00:51 <|tbb|> modprobe is there Jul 01 13:01:03 what about modinfo? Jul 01 13:01:05 Jaffa, added the page to here: https://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Jul 01 13:01:15 can 'modinfo iptable-nat' find that module? Jul 01 13:01:56 <|tbb|> modinfo not on the tablet available Jul 01 13:03:13 * |tbb| still confused why the installed package said (supports NAT) Jul 01 13:04:10 |tbb|, iptables is *two* things. a config tool /sbin/iptables and some kernel modules including iptables.ko Jul 01 13:04:31 you are missing some or all of the kernel modules Jul 01 13:05:59 <|tbb|> johnx do u have an diabolo enviroment Jul 01 13:06:09 |tbb|, I have diablo, but not scratchbox Jul 01 13:06:10 there are also iptables plugins in /lib/iptables Jul 01 13:06:22 but these usually come in the same package as /sbin/iptables Jul 01 13:07:05 actually, I can run scratchbox in a couple minutes after I reboot into a kernel with vdso_compat Jul 01 13:07:09 back in a minute Jul 01 13:08:24 Gah, #3354 is *killing* me Jul 01 13:08:45 hm, if the Maemo port of X-Chat was made by Alberto Garcia Hierro, but I'm the person who last tweaked the build-deps and uploaded it ot extras, what should I put in the Maintainer field in debian/control? Jul 01 13:09:15 `Taking over package, mwuhahaha!'? Jul 01 13:09:17 * aquatix runs Jul 01 13:09:59 mgedmin: if you're not actively maintaining the package itself, you're supposed to put yourself in "Uploaders" rather than "Maintainers" (well, in Debian and Ubuntu, at least) Jul 01 13:13:53 Jaffa: one way to find out build-deps you can 'grep PKG_CHECK_MODULES configure.in' Jul 01 13:14:06 and then look for similar package names Jul 01 13:14:16 e.g. dbus-glib-1 becomes libdbus-glib-1-dev Jul 01 13:15:01 mgedmin: dpkg-depcheck seems even better - just used it to pick up the missing libncurses5-dev Build-Depends from vim. mud r234 now contains the code to auto-determine them if you've not set them explicitly. Jul 01 13:15:25 Of course, I can't upload my updated vim package as ssh on garage.maemo.org is denying connections at the moment. Jul 01 13:15:51 * mgedmin just successfully used https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php Jul 01 13:16:51 Ah, yeah. Could do that for now. Don't like using web-based tools when I want to do "mud upload vim" Jul 01 13:18:30 how do you use dpkg-depcheck? Jul 01 13:18:49 * mgedmin guesses dpkg-depcheck -a dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -B Jul 01 13:19:00 dpkg-depcheck -b dpkg-buildpackage -rfa... yeah, pretty much Jul 01 13:20:53 how much time pass since upload to build? Jul 01 13:21:23 I am thinking about uploading Pimlico apps to Extras so OpenedHand repo will be less needed Jul 01 13:21:42 Jaffa: that doesn't work in scratchbox for me... Jul 01 13:21:47 Can't locate Devscripts/Set.pm in @INC Jul 01 13:22:03 mgedmin: hmm, odd - works for me. Jul 01 13:22:25 ah, the error ends in at /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/dpkg-depcheck line 27. Jul 01 13:22:48 maybe I should apt-get install devscripts Jul 01 13:23:21 * mgedmin wishes the autobuilder had a buildbot-like status display Jul 01 13:23:45 showing a countdown until the start of a build, showing the currently running build (and wildly inaccurate ETA), letting me read the log while a task is being built Jul 01 13:23:54 heh...disabling vdso is not working so well for me Jul 01 13:24:04 mgedmin: waterfall? Jul 01 13:24:14 yes Jul 01 13:25:39 mgedmin: yes, absolutely++ Jul 01 13:28:33 ~curse http://repository.maemo.org for sick ordering Jul 01 13:28:33 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, http://repository.maemo.org for sick ordering ! Jul 01 13:28:58 lol Jul 01 13:29:05 hrw, you'd think that'd be an easyfix. . . . Jul 01 13:29:11 GeneralAntilles: no Jul 01 13:29:51 Just Apache configuration, right? Jul 01 13:31:00 * mgedmin adds to the curse Jul 01 13:31:09 GeneralAntilles: yes Jul 01 13:31:20 I am reporting bug Jul 01 13:31:40 woo! finally back in scratchbox for the first time in months Jul 01 13:31:53 hrw, search first, I think it was reported a while ago. Jul 01 13:33:41 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3364 Jul 01 13:34:56 dpkg-depcheck doesn't collapse transitive dependencies... Jul 01 13:35:46 mgedmin: I thought it was supposed to, reading the docs. Damn. Jul 01 13:36:13 I'm pretty sure I don't need to explicitly build-depend on x11proto-render-dev Jul 01 13:36:16 mgedmin: what if -m is used (--min-deps) Jul 01 13:41:00 hrw: Invitation is in the mail. Jul 01 13:42:11 X-Fade: thx Jul 01 13:42:29 X-Fade: deps are not tracked yet, so first upload deps, then final packages? Jul 01 13:42:46 hrw: Yes, otherwise it will fail. Jul 01 13:43:21 extras-devel syncs every 10 minutes, so within 10 minutes after a build the dependency is available. Jul 01 13:43:31 ok Jul 01 13:45:08 X-Fade: where on web I can see extras-devel contents? Jul 01 13:45:37 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/ Jul 01 13:45:52 Jaffa: -m is much better Jul 01 13:45:53 thx Jul 01 13:45:57 just add -devel to the extras url ;) Jul 01 13:45:58 only four packages needed Jul 01 13:46:00 not sure I trust that Jul 01 13:46:58 unless maybe libhildonfm2-dev or libosso-dev pulls in libhildon1-dev Jul 01 13:47:31 mgedmin: I wouldn't count on that. Jul 01 13:47:45 it does, but yes, I don't want to count on it Jul 01 13:48:02 well, not as build-depends at least. Jul 01 13:48:27 is there a wiki page about preparing source packages for the autobuilder? Jul 01 13:48:32 it should mention dpkg-depcheck Jul 01 13:48:42 and the -I option for dpkg-buildpackage Jul 01 13:49:54 xchat build success! Jul 01 13:49:57 vim build success! Jul 01 13:50:13 Woohoo, vim built :-) Jul 01 13:50:15 !! Jul 01 13:50:27 mgedmin: You might want to help add that to https://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Jul 01 13:55:07 * mgedmin updates Uploading_to_Extras Jul 01 13:55:49 ooh, vim Jul 01 13:56:28 Not showing up in my Application Manager yet. Jul 01 13:57:30 * Jaffa wonders how long the delay is between autobuilder finishing, and extras-devel updating. Jul 01 14:00:53 * mgedmin resubmits the xchat package for chinook Jul 01 14:03:14 garrrr.... so where can i grab the libconic-0.16 code? Jul 01 14:03:29 Ah, fun, PDFs. Jul 01 14:03:33 andre__: My guess is, you can't. Jul 01 14:03:44 Everything from Adobe seems to break my webbrowser these days. Jul 01 14:03:49 andre__: from pool/diablo/free/libc/libconic/ Jul 01 14:03:55 but i can get 0.13?! Jul 01 14:03:55 X-Fade: it is open Jul 01 14:04:05 andre__: 0.13 ws in chinook Jul 01 14:04:07 Well my FF3 crashes about 10 times a day :( Jul 01 14:04:10 andre__: 0.16 in diablo Jul 01 14:04:10 thanks Jul 01 14:04:16 yupp Jul 01 14:04:27 Flash and the Acrobat PDF plugin that I can't be arsed to uninstall. Jul 01 14:04:31 X-Fade, same here. flash issues? ;-) Jul 01 14:04:53 No, mostly when switching tabs or pushing the stop button. Jul 01 14:05:03 hrw: argh, thanks. that one was easy, sigh :) Jul 01 14:05:12 I only have 40 tabs orso.. Jul 01 14:05:44 Thankfully my browser isn't broken. Jul 01 14:05:47 Just Adobe's garbage. :< Jul 01 14:06:04 X-Fade, file some nice bug reports against your distro :) two months ago the FF guys told me that they are definitely interested in crasher reports from linux Jul 01 14:06:32 * X-Fade sees xchat and vim in extras-devel ;) Jul 01 14:06:34 * aquatix already submitted some through the Fx crash feedback thingee Jul 01 14:07:05 * mgedmin has to use perl /usr/bin/dpkg-depcheck in his chinook target to avoid scratchbox magic from invoking the nonfunctional debian-sarge-devkit version Jul 01 14:07:24 and debhelper too! Jul 01 14:08:19 Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/chinook/Release.gpg Could not connect to proxy.dmz:3128 (62.61.88.251). - connect (111 Connection refused) Jul 01 14:08:31 ~lart autobuilder Jul 01 14:08:32 * infobot rm -rf's autobuilder Jul 01 14:08:38 mgedmin: Yeah, lart isp.. Jul 01 14:08:47 Urg . . . XChat locale spam. Jul 01 14:08:53 X-Fade: excuses excuses! Jul 01 14:09:25 oops, did I just spam the app manager list? Jul 01 14:09:27 sorry! Jul 01 14:09:29 Yay! vim. Complete with icon! Jul 01 14:09:52 the autobuilder needs a "retry, this wasn't *my* fault" button plz Jul 01 14:10:16 * GeneralAntilles gets rid of his !xchat shortcut. Jul 01 14:10:16 Jaffa: does it start in a window or something? Jul 01 14:10:28 mgedmin: Nah, it just shouldn't have problems like that. Jul 01 14:10:32 aquatix: no, it's the console version atm Jul 01 14:10:33 Jaffa: with gvim too? Jul 01 14:10:45 hrw: nope (not yet) Jul 01 14:10:46 Jaffa: so, the menu item opens vim in a terminal? Jul 01 14:10:57 not that i care, as long as i have vim :) Jul 01 14:11:02 aquatix: there is no menu item. The icon is in the app manager. Jul 01 14:11:16 A terminal-opening shortcut would be very cool, tho' Jul 01 14:11:40 oh duh Jul 01 14:11:40 kk Jul 01 14:12:03 mgedmin, can a case be made for merging all the non-en XChat locale packages, or moving them out of User/ or something, anything? :( Jul 01 14:12:29 GeneralAntilles: yes Jul 01 14:13:11 I want to report a bug about http://extras-cauldron.garage.maemo.org/HOWTO.html Jul 01 14:13:26 it says to put fqdn = garage into /etc/dput.cf Jul 01 14:13:30 mgedmin: Shoot. Jul 01 14:13:36 which, of course, cannot be then resolved from here Jul 01 14:14:15 I'd also suggest ~/.dput.cf instead of /etc/dput.cf Jul 01 14:14:19 mgedmin: I noticed that. The email as part of the extras invite tells you to add a .ssh/config entry containing username and hostname of 'garage.maemo.org' for 'garage' Jul 01 14:14:27 ah! Jul 01 14:14:38 But there's no need to do that, so I agree with both your points, FWIW Jul 01 14:14:40 could this document please also mention the .ssh/config ? Jul 01 14:14:50 Uploading to chinook-extras-builder (via scp to garage.maemo.org): Jul 01 14:14:50 Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive). Jul 01 14:14:52 :( Jul 01 14:14:55 Nah, scap the .ssh/config - just put it all in ~/.dput.cf Jul 01 14:15:21 mgedmin: see bug #3354 - https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3354 Jul 01 14:17:12 mgedmin: I have added your suggestions to the extras-cauldron svn repository. Jul 01 14:17:32 Everybody is welcome to join the project btw.. Jul 01 14:18:48 Ahh, Update All is heartwarming Jul 01 14:19:16 Anybody remember offhand what version of bugzilla bmo is running? Jul 01 14:20:16 too much stuff to take in at one time... Jul 01 14:25:39 mgedmin: Re-submitting the package will probably succeed. Jul 01 14:35:17 hey Capn_Fish :D Jul 01 14:36:01 hey Jul 01 14:36:17 Sorry, I had to go get a mouse. My trackpad died Jul 01 14:36:24 O_o Jul 01 14:36:28 permanently? Jul 01 14:36:34 I don't think so Jul 01 14:36:48 It has a tendancy to stop working occasionally Jul 01 14:36:51 anyways, did the keyboard on your n810 work in debian beta3? Jul 01 14:37:01 Yup. worked like a charm Jul 01 14:37:14 But now I can control the backlight on it :) Jul 01 14:37:14 what did you remap with your xmodmap? Jul 01 14:37:29 I didn't remap much Jul 01 14:37:41 I just added in the fn keys Jul 01 14:37:41 backlight control? is that something you added or Stskeeps? Jul 01 14:38:05 It's not added yet, I just echoed to /sys|/proc :D Jul 01 14:38:12 ah, right Jul 01 14:38:19 Oh, I DID remap the menu key to be tab Jul 01 14:38:25 and apostrophe to be / Jul 01 14:38:33 Nothing major Jul 01 14:38:57 The funny thing is, X is getting NO input from it, not even gibberish Jul 01 14:39:12 I've been meaning to cat /dev/input/event0, but haven't yet Jul 01 14:39:18 this is in Stskeeps' latest debian-installer thing? Jul 01 14:39:26 Ya Jul 01 14:39:34 right, that's a known issue. we were talking about it earlier :) Jul 01 14:39:43 The keyboard? Jul 01 14:39:49 sigh -- sorry to ask again but I cannot find it -- where is the nokia web page with instructions on upgrading to OS2008 via USB cable with a Linux OS host ? Jul 01 14:40:27 What Nokia web page? Jul 01 14:40:28 Oh...you guys don't have N810s, so testing must be rather difficult Jul 01 14:40:34 m-c, http://wiki.maemo.org/Upgrading_tablet_OS Jul 01 14:40:45 qwerty12: damn, quicker than me Jul 01 14:40:50 Capn_Fish, well, actually, the buttons on the N800 probably wouldn't work either Jul 01 14:41:00 Most likely Jul 01 14:41:10 this is the same problem I had run into earlier in beta2 and earlier :) Jul 01 14:41:19 There's a quirk I noticed.... Jul 01 14:41:28 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Developer_Tools#DDD Jul 01 14:41:41 it's just a matter of copying over this /usr/share/hal/policy/10osvendor/10-xkb.fdi or similar Jul 01 14:41:46 to turn the keyboard LEDs on, you echo n > /proc/class/leds/keyboard/backlight_level Jul 01 14:41:58 johnx: Great news! Jul 01 14:42:01 Jaffa, Heh. Ever thought of changing the name of 770flasher? The name would put n00bs with a N800/n810 off and it's the perfect app to help them to flash the tablet if they don't know how. Jul 01 14:42:15 actually, are you on diablo? Jul 01 14:42:21 GeneralAntilles: could we get the RSS feed from the wiki to send to #maemo? Jul 01 14:42:28 wow, my trackpad is going nuts...If I hover my finger over it, it reacts! Jul 01 14:42:29 and also, Stskeeps already integrated that into his debian installer I believe Jul 01 14:42:37 anyway, yes I'm using Diablo Jul 01 14:42:53 alright, it's something else then, 10-x11-input.fdi Jul 01 14:43:14 that *should* do it, but you get to be the beta tester :) Jul 01 14:43:15 OK Jul 01 14:43:25 qwerty12: yes, but the N800 came out after I'd sold my Mac. Jul 01 14:43:25 hang on, I'll try to find it Jul 01 14:43:27 brb Jul 01 14:43:36 Jaffa, Ah, ok :) Jul 01 14:43:52 Buy me a MacBook Air and I'll fix it - and even make it better :-) Jul 01 14:43:55 lbt, please, no. ;) Jul 01 14:44:05 #maemo-wiki perhaps Jul 01 14:44:11 Jaffa, I don't even have a Mac :P :) Jul 01 14:44:36 qwerty12: Oh, right, it was on the maemo site, not the nokia site. Thanks so much, pal!!! Jul 01 14:44:38 Jaffa, why'd you sell? Jul 01 14:44:41 qwerty12: two MBAs then and keep one for yourself ;-) Jul 01 14:44:47 :D is there really *that* much activity? Jul 01 14:44:48 johnx: Any ideas on how to make the mail/power/event LED turn on? THe usual echo n > xxx doesn't work with it Jul 01 14:45:05 Capn_Fish, no idea on that. also different on the n800 Jul 01 14:45:09 lbt, there's enough. Jul 01 14:45:12 Jaffa, Hmm, tempting. Jul 01 14:45:22 Capn_Fish, if you wanted your own project to work on...that would be a good one :) Jul 01 14:45:25 lbt: wiki has rss so use rss reader Jul 01 14:45:26 fair enough Jul 01 14:45:29 OK! Jul 01 14:45:34 GeneralAntilles: had an original 1.42GHz G4 Mac mini and realised the only apps I was regularly using were OSS ones anyway, so I sold it and built a 64-bit AMD box which runs Firefox, OpenOffice.org, GIMP, Inkscape and a Terminal a bit more powerfully :-) Jul 01 14:45:35 lbt: not everyone likes spamming bots on irc Jul 01 14:45:37 johnx, make it run mce and use the dbus commands to fire up the led :P Jul 01 14:46:05 qwerty12, :P I would dearly like to escape from mce :/ Jul 01 14:46:10 GeneralAntilles: I did look for an old PowerMac or Mac Pro on eBay first. But they really retain their second hand value Jul 01 14:46:21 johnx: pester nokia then to add proper kernel support for that led Jul 01 14:46:54 Disassemble NOLO? Jul 01 14:47:00 hrw, I have other priorities...like wifi Jul 01 14:47:02 (come on, if NOLO can do it...) Jul 01 14:47:23 johnx: I don't see anything with xkbd in it...Maybe 10-x11-input.fdi? Jul 01 14:47:24 I'd rather just buy an LED flashlight and shine it in my face when I feel like it Jul 01 14:47:31 Capn_Fish, that sounds right Jul 01 14:47:35 hrw: fair enough - I like the idea of a #maemo-wiki though Jul 01 14:47:35 k Jul 01 14:47:50 anyway, yes I'm using Diablo Jul 01 14:47:50 alright, it's something else then, 10-x11-input.fdi Jul 01 14:47:55 :P Jul 01 14:48:16 Capn_Fish: http://sse2.net/ledcolor.py <- thats a little test tool i wrote for the n810... Jul 01 14:48:28 <|tbb|> is there allready a kbd reconfigure gui app available? Jul 01 14:48:55 For which platform? Maemo or Debian? And for the N810 hardware keyboard? Jul 01 14:49:11 <|tbb|> n810 hw keyboard Jul 01 14:49:18 <|tbb|> maemo Jul 01 14:49:24 jott: That LED has RGB?!? Jul 01 14:49:28 Cool! Jul 01 14:49:29 Jaffa, haha, second-hand is right. Jul 01 14:49:30 |tbb|: look at ukeyboard Jul 01 14:49:39 I was gonna suggest that :p Jul 01 14:49:47 Capn_Fish: only the 810 Jul 01 14:49:55 800 is monochrome Jul 01 14:49:57 :( Jul 01 14:49:59 That's what I have :) Jul 01 14:50:00 Capn_Fish: on the n810 Jul 01 14:50:06 cool indeed Jul 01 14:50:10 Thanks much! Jul 01 14:50:30 I will be having WAY too much fun with that... Jul 01 14:51:03 :) Jul 01 14:51:40 MY KB WORKS!!!!!!!! :) Jul 01 14:51:50 johnx: Thanks much! Jul 01 14:51:54 Capn_Fish, so it was just the one file? Jul 01 14:51:56 great Jul 01 14:51:59 yup Jul 01 14:52:04 makes things easy Jul 01 14:52:16 awesome, thanks for testing Jul 01 14:52:25 np Jul 01 14:52:39 Now if only I could make it a job... Jul 01 14:52:40 lol Jul 01 14:53:07 yeah, that'd be nice, wouldn't it? Jul 01 14:53:23 <|tbb|> jott, how can i get the values out from the color i switch with your sliders Jul 01 14:53:31 <|tbb|> so i can use it under mce Jul 01 14:53:42 johnx: one more todo: Add xmodmap to the base image Jul 01 14:53:51 I still need to install it :( Jul 01 14:54:07 hmm, but not everyone will need it Jul 01 14:54:11 bye Jul 01 14:54:13 also, it's really easy to install Jul 01 14:54:14 bye Jul 01 14:54:27 johnx: Maybe have it ask a question? Jul 01 14:54:39 Those with N810s will DEFINITELY want it Jul 01 14:54:52 unless they stay on the console Jul 01 14:54:55 i guess xmodmap is small enough to provide it in a base image ... Jul 01 14:55:16 True... Jul 01 14:55:37 Still, a prompt wouldn't hurt much, would it? Jul 01 14:55:45 Or at least a warning on the Wiki Jul 01 14:56:09 ask Stskeeps. The installer is all his work. I'm taking a break for now :) Jul 01 14:56:23 fair enough Jul 01 14:57:23 hm, xmodmap Jul 01 14:57:28 but also, anyone who knows how to use xmodmap should know how to install it. Is the keyboard functional enough to use apt-get? Jul 01 14:57:53 yes Jul 01 14:58:14 except NOT functional enough to configure wireless, so you need to do that ahead of time Jul 01 14:58:27 and still no functional WEP, AFAICT Jul 01 14:59:45 the WEP problem is the oddest thing Jul 01 14:59:52 there are other people with working WEP Jul 01 14:59:52 I know Jul 01 15:00:06 Maybe it's my hidden SSID? Jul 01 15:00:12 that messes with WPA, I know Jul 01 15:00:30 why use WEP at all? :O Jul 01 15:00:32 Bye for now, got to untar android :) Jul 01 15:01:25 jott: long story Jul 01 15:02:27 jott: more to the point, I'm a LONG ways from anybody else, so there's really no point Jul 01 15:03:27 <|tbb|> ukeyboard isnt compatible with diabolo right now Jul 01 15:03:54 who needs encryption? i live in a faraday cage! ;p Jul 01 15:04:55 Anybody know how to set up a static IP wireless link? I've never managed to do it correctly Jul 01 15:05:07 manually? Jul 01 15:05:11 sure Jul 01 15:05:15 ifconfig wlan0 192.168.1.2 Jul 01 15:05:37 What about AP, DNS, gateways, etc? Jul 01 15:05:46 DNS goes in /etc/resolv.conf Jul 01 15:06:10 AP: iwconfig wlan0 essid your-router Jul 01 15:06:41 <|tbb|> u need wirelesstools to do so iirc Jul 01 15:06:53 route add default gw 192.168.1.1 Jul 01 15:07:08 if he's doing this in debian they should be installed Jul 01 15:07:30 <|tbb|> ah k Jul 01 15:07:32 * johnx never remembers the syntax for route off the top of his head Jul 01 15:07:53 use "ip" instead ;) Jul 01 15:08:07 ??? Jul 01 15:08:17 jott, ip? Jul 01 15:08:29 * johnx Reads TFM Jul 01 15:08:44 iproute2 package, I guess. Jul 01 15:09:24 fair enough. usually when I don't have net access I tend not to install new packages :P Jul 01 15:12:23 bah, the route stuff is the key I'm sure, but I can't get it right Jul 01 15:12:29 bmidgley: ping Jul 01 15:12:38 I'll just go re-set-up my WPA router :) Jul 01 15:12:51 lardman pong Jul 01 15:13:15 bmidgley: I'm just working out what the innards of _sbc_analyze_four() do Jul 01 15:13:25 brb Jul 01 15:13:37 bmidgley: I take it you scale different parts by different amounts depending on their significance Jul 01 15:14:24 bmidgley: scale -> right shift Jul 01 15:15:57 lardman that may be true in general Jul 01 15:16:24 lardman but the goal is always to keep as much precision as possible without an overflow Jul 01 15:16:40 bmidgley: ah, ok Jul 01 15:17:37 bmidgley: this method does away with calculating the Z coefficients directly and merges them all together at the end? Jul 01 15:17:41 lardman fwiw, the overflows sound like an occasional loud pop or constant static if they happen more often Jul 01 15:18:26 bmidgley: ok, I was just trying to work out why the variable bitshifts Jul 01 15:18:35 lardman I can't remember the z coefficients Jul 01 15:18:40 which part of the code? Jul 01 15:18:54 scaleX_stagex? Jul 01 15:19:25 In the spec, the 2nd operation: 1) read in data 2) windowing my 40 coeffs Jul 01 15:19:32 s/my/by Jul 01 15:21:22 lardman can you restate the question :) Jul 01 15:23:24 bmidgley: I guess what I'm interested in is how many operations your method saves over the method given in the spec? Jul 01 15:29:39 bmidgley: I'm trying to work out how/whether the DSP could perform some operations differently (i.e. more quickly) Jul 01 15:30:29 lardman it's mostly about factoring multiplies because they are expensive Jul 01 15:32:03 bmidgley: I'm just counting how many there are now Jul 01 15:33:56 37 mul, 43 adds, 11 shifts Jul 01 15:33:59 or there abouts Jul 01 15:34:50 lardman multiplies aren't expensive on the dsp Jul 01 15:34:57 what's expensive is non-symmetrical ops Jul 01 15:35:17 bmidgley: yep, which is why I was trying to work out what you have done :) Jul 01 15:35:18 the dsp impl needs to look more like the spec Jul 01 15:36:02 the s[] terms don't appear in the spec Jul 01 15:36:25 multiply work them out of the workflow to reveal what is going on Jul 01 15:36:56 argh, I'm late for work Jul 01 15:37:10 yep, they are related to the fact that there are 5 references into the Z array in the spec Jul 01 15:37:26 cheers for your helps Jul 01 15:37:34 s/helps/help Jul 01 15:38:46 ok, will check in later Jul 01 15:42:56 lbt, if you want to look into how the recent changes IRC feeds are set up, I'll see what I can do. Jul 01 15:43:03 Google isn't turning up anything useful for me, though. Jul 01 15:48:55 anyone know if the rtcomm Beta works with 2008he? Jul 01 15:49:13 lbt, also not sure if it will help, but mgedmin has a bot in here logging all the time. you could see if it has communication skills as well as listening Jul 01 15:50:07 nah, the bot is utterly stoopid Jul 01 15:50:15 it is barely able to log the logs Jul 01 15:50:28 there are smarter bots in here, I believe Jul 01 15:50:30 ~lart stoopid bots Jul 01 15:50:30 * infobot brandishes Excalibur! "With this sword, I vanquish thee, stoopid bots!" and lops off stoopid bots's head Jul 01 15:50:44 nope, also stoopid Jul 01 15:50:56 can't tell plural from singular Jul 01 15:55:53 Well, that was a waste of time. Jul 01 15:56:01 * GeneralAntilles fails at supybot and mozbot. Jul 01 15:56:30 There seems to be no documentation for either. Jul 01 15:57:51 ~documentation Jul 01 15:57:52 hmm... documentation is not the issue for why the new stuff isn't completed Jul 01 16:03:09 ~documentation is also the thing everybody wants, but nobody reads Jul 01 16:03:10 zap: okay Jul 01 16:06:29 "ERROR!!!" oh yeah, that's useful. Jul 01 16:07:26 Alright, enough bullshit with woefully under-documented IRC bots. Jul 01 16:07:35 Somebody else is welcome to invest their time in that. Jul 01 16:08:28 with rtcomm beta installed, when you go to create a new chat account on the nokia, should all the available services be in the drop-down menu? Jul 01 16:08:39 Yes Jul 01 16:09:32 ah on 2008HE i only get Google Talk, Jabber and SIP Jul 01 16:10:44 Who knows with HE. Jul 01 16:11:00 poop Jul 01 16:20:16 Is it fine if an .deb file will place some files to /media/mmc2/... ? Jul 01 16:20:31 I mean it's a game with pretty large data files (>100 megs) Jul 01 16:20:50 I'm just not sure app manager or apt/dpkg will eat that Jul 01 16:21:12 zap, why not have the game download the maps after it's installed Jul 01 16:21:36 it won't work for n800 users with no internal sd card or people who boot from sd Jul 01 16:21:44 ah sweet rtcomm beta works in 2008HE :D Jul 01 16:22:12 hmm except I have no contacts Jul 01 16:22:18 maybe a version that unpacks to mmc2 and a version where users can place data files manually Jul 01 16:23:33 Is there a way to throw a dialog asking where you want to put the data files during the application install? Jul 01 16:24:40 Where does app manager store the files before installing? If it's downloaded to temp you are kinda screwed and will never be able to distribute huge datasets without downloading them after installing Jul 01 16:25:37 mmc2 Jul 01 16:25:50 im guessing this should pull in all your contacts automatically right? Jul 01 16:25:55 or rootfs if you don't have an mmc2 available or change it in Red Pill mode. Jul 01 16:26:14 tempfs is, like 1MB Jul 01 16:26:16 GeneralAntilles, Look into ukki's scripts Jul 01 16:26:24 qwerty12, I'm not interested. ;) Jul 01 16:26:38 zap, look into ukki's scripts. Jul 01 16:26:55 I don't care, I was answering a question that was asked by you. Jul 01 16:27:17 doesn't n800 have an internal card? Jul 01 16:27:27 it has an internal slot Jul 01 16:27:47 whether or not it has a card depends on whether you put it in there or not ;-) Jul 01 16:27:54 hmm, so there's even no place to download the deb files to Jul 01 16:28:01 btw this also should apply to n810 as well :( Jul 01 16:28:14 the n810 has a soldered-in internal card that you cannot remove Jul 01 16:28:16 app manager downloads them to /var/tmp, right? Jul 01 16:28:26 zap, read the scrollback. . . . Jul 01 16:28:36 I *think* the app manager downloads them to /media/mmc2 if it can, then falls back to /var/tmp Jul 01 16:28:41 and no, I haven't read the scrollback Jul 01 16:28:42 I'll have a look although have no idea whats that Jul 01 16:28:53 zap, the scrollback in the channel. Jul 01 16:29:05 a .deb file just dropping files under /media would be UNACCEPTABLE in my eyes Jul 01 16:29:07 how far? :) Jul 01 16:29:13 Barely a page. Jul 01 16:29:14 mgedmin, it's also impossible ;) Jul 01 16:29:19 Between when you asked your question and now. . . . Jul 01 16:29:20 *whew* Jul 01 16:29:24 really? does dpkg complain? Jul 01 16:29:31 GeneralAntilles: I see you suggested some 'ukki scripts' Jul 01 16:29:49 mgedmin, yes, dpkg only works with permission based filesystems Jul 01 16:29:58 ah, vfat saves the day :) Jul 01 16:30:11 [12:24pm] Where does app manager store the files before installing? If it's downloaded to temp you are kinda screwed and will never be able to distribute huge datasets without downloading them after installing Jul 01 16:30:11 [12:25pm] mmc2 Jul 01 16:30:11 [12:25pm] or rootfs if you don't have an mmc2 available or change it in Re Jul 01 16:30:50 it won't fit on rootfs Jul 01 16:31:03 How big a dataset are we talking here? Jul 01 16:31:09 why not just let the data file be a separate zip file download Jul 01 16:31:32 johnx: is bluetooth on debian just installing bluez btw? Jul 01 16:31:42 fyi, this problem has already been dealt with by pupnik, ukki and others. Jul 01 16:31:49 about 100Mb min and ~300Mb max Jul 01 16:31:54 Look into how they do it and you'll have your answer. . . . Jul 01 16:32:03 in what package? Jul 01 16:32:10 Look into ukki's scripts Jul 01 16:32:12 ukki == ukmp? Jul 01 16:32:14 I said that time ago Jul 01 16:32:25 No, ukki == ukki Jul 01 16:32:30 * GeneralAntilles gives up and moves on. Jul 01 16:32:35 well, google knows alot of ukki :) Jul 01 16:32:35 Stskeeps, yeah, I think so. it's pretty automagic Jul 01 16:32:37 sorry GA Jul 01 16:33:27 aha, ukki == widelands Jul 01 16:33:32 GA, you could be more specific Jul 01 16:33:35 ukki = duke3d Jul 01 16:33:44 ukki = solmumaha (on #maemo ;)) Jul 01 16:34:30 You could also grab my "full" rott package. It uses ukki scripts to make a simple text file saying to put the games here on /media/mmc2 or mmc1 Jul 01 16:34:40 s/games/data files/ Jul 01 16:34:40 qwerty12 meant: You could also grab my "full" rott package. It uses ukki scripts to make a simple text file saying to put the data files here on /media/mmc2 or mmc1 Jul 01 16:35:24 ~lart "Xming[e]" x server for windows Jul 01 16:35:24 * infobot whips out a shotgun, trudges over to "Xming[e]" x server, and goes postal for windows Jul 01 16:35:59 qwerty12: where I can get them? Jul 01 16:39:05 zap, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=176871 - my rott, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17315 - ukki's duke3d, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19871 - could help & you may want to get in touch with solmumaha for a certain website and then tell me the link as I forgot it :P Jul 01 16:39:26 thank you! Jul 01 16:39:42 duke3d runs on NITs? Jul 01 16:39:48 Yes, for a long time now :) Jul 01 16:39:51 oooh Jul 01 16:39:57 Shadow warrior too, just a little slower Jul 01 16:40:01 that brings back memories... Jul 01 16:40:14 I want to see OpenUT :( Jul 01 16:40:26 johnx: Capn_Fish just verified the camera works :) Jul 01 16:42:27 qwerty12: hmm, btw, how you ported rott? is the source available? Jul 01 16:42:39 zap, it's a dodgy port anyways Jul 01 16:42:43 source is available Jul 01 16:42:51 check the last post if you want to finish it off ;) Jul 01 16:43:02 :) well I'm not a rott fan Jul 01 16:43:16 I made it run full screen and stablised the memory a bit but it still likes to freeze :) :P Jul 01 16:43:17 I'm a uqm fan, that's why I'm asking about big files :) Jul 01 16:43:37 I think uqm has already been done by ZerionSeven, let me check Jul 01 16:43:42 yes Jul 01 16:43:55 but I'd like it a bit more user-friendly Jul 01 16:44:02 Ah Jul 01 16:44:06 there are three votes on garage, that's a shame :) Jul 01 16:45:42 I badly miss a "bookmark this post" feature on itt forums :) Jul 01 16:45:48 Hmm. Diablo SDK + maemo-explicit doesn't contain X Terminal Jul 01 16:46:18 Jaffa, if you know the password, jack it from catalogue.tableteer... Jul 01 16:47:41 qwerty12: possible. Don't need it, turns out Jul 01 16:47:52 hehe, Enigma does just what I said - hardcoded to /media/mmc2/enigma Jul 01 16:52:33 would be nicer if it tried both mmc cards Jul 01 16:54:10 So is there a good guide to updating/upgrading/flashing my newly purchased n800 to os2008? Jul 01 16:54:17 Preferably maemo 4.1 Jul 01 16:55:41 cjohnson download the latest image from here http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php Jul 01 16:55:48 cjohnson, linux or win? Jul 01 16:55:52 Windows :( Jul 01 16:55:58 mgedmin: the general approach is to present the user with a choice dialog Jul 01 16:56:06 Is 4.1 DIABLO ? Jul 01 16:56:12 Yes Jul 01 16:56:23 http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/2008/01/nokia-n800-how-to-update-n800s-firmware.html Jul 01 16:56:28 wow 135mb Jul 01 16:56:30 * zap wonders why such a strange codename Jul 01 16:56:37 cjohnson then use this windows flashing tool http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010 Jul 01 16:58:31 well, it's version d, after c(hinook) Jul 01 16:58:46 \o/ Jul 01 16:58:49 i survived Jul 01 16:58:59 * qwerty12 kills lcuk Jul 01 16:59:02 zap: Maemo codenames are named after winds. Jul 01 16:59:04 just like fesity fawn, gutsy gibbons, hardy herron, etc. Jul 01 16:59:08 lcuk, not on #maemo you dont :P Jul 01 16:59:09 gee. thanks qwerty12 Jul 01 16:59:11 named in order :D Jul 01 16:59:21 lcuk, any time ;) Jul 01 16:59:28 heh Jul 01 16:59:33 zap: http://wiki.maemo.org/Codenames Jul 01 16:59:43 Jaffa: thanks Jul 01 17:00:08 im waiting for maemo Hurricane edition, when you install it you get a little CNN reporter on your desktop Jul 01 17:00:34 * qwerty12 would rather have the bbc :P Jul 01 17:01:49 but those CNN reporters are hard. hell, i was shocked when john simpson said last night he was in Zimbabwe after bbc were explicitely banned from the country Jul 01 17:02:26 Channel 4 News rocks too, but they're not naming theirs ;-) Jul 01 17:03:32 jaffa, thats what i mean, i think thats the first time ive seen a bbc reporter actually go properly undercover Jul 01 17:03:37 and announce it on the news Jul 01 17:04:24 lcuk: lol @ reporter Jul 01 17:05:32 the updater wont' find the device Jul 01 17:05:44 it's in update mode (followed step 5, it shows nokia logo with usb logo top right) Jul 01 17:05:47 but updater won't find it Jul 01 17:06:07 bbc was banned, but not every person with an UK passport, I presume Jul 01 17:06:16 lcuk: Nah, they've done it before. John Simpson as well, IIRC. Jul 01 17:06:20 Folks, please confirm bug #3359 Jul 01 17:06:37 Looks like maintainers do not believe it occurs Jul 01 17:06:42 zap: I was reading something about a reporter for The Times who got in, but then was detained when they discovered he was a reporter. Not pleasant reading. Jul 01 17:07:01 well, you don't have to say you're a reporter Jul 01 17:07:29 I be in Zimbabwe looking for guns, I make deal with government. Jul 01 17:08:12 hrm, what arm version does the tablets run? v5el or v6el instruction set? Jul 01 17:08:20 No, of course not. But a) sometimes it shows up on your passport, b) sometimes you're well known, c) doesn't take much to watch the BBC News and look for "our world editor, John Simpson, has managed to get in to Zimbabwe, and sends this report from there" Jul 01 17:08:24 N800 is v6 Jul 01 17:08:29 k Jul 01 17:08:38 Ahaha . . . awesome. supybot, apparently, believes the correct response to invalid settings is to nuke entire sections of the .conf file. Jul 01 17:08:48 just have this bizarre notion to try out mojo's distributions of ubuntu Jul 01 17:09:16 RST38h: have you tried with plain USB keyboards? Jul 01 17:09:17 Stskeeps, on itt forums you mentioned about voluntees for debian on 770 Jul 01 17:09:35 RST38h: is the delay from BT keyboards different from the delay with USB keyboards? Jul 01 17:09:36 GeneralAntilles: nice. Jul 01 17:10:01 * GeneralAntilles really doesn't have the patience for irc bots, evidently. Jul 01 17:10:01 argh Jul 01 17:10:03 Atarii: yeah - http://wiki.maemo.org/Debian_for_NITs_development is what we're doing for n800 and n810 right now Jul 01 17:10:08 it keeps connecting and disconnecting to my computer Jul 01 17:10:17 Atarii: i'm not sure what the boot process differences would be on n770 Jul 01 17:10:22 I think I'll push this as a proposal for the maemo.org team, instead. Jul 01 17:10:25 cjohnson: your computer is hot Jul 01 17:10:42 zap, ? Jul 01 17:10:48 that sentence made me laugh, sorry. Jul 01 17:11:00 jaffa :) thanks for a bit more of your knowledge. was the first time i'd seen anything like that Jul 01 17:11:01 right, ill have a read of the wiki Jul 01 17:11:40 zap: I did not try usb Jul 01 17:11:55 don't you have a female A-A converter? Jul 01 17:12:07 tried it again, works now Jul 01 17:12:10 it would be helpful imho to point out if it's a general problem with keyboards Jul 01 17:12:13 or just a BT problem Jul 01 17:12:14 it said 20 minutes to update, took about 10 seconds Jul 01 17:12:15 is that normal? Jul 01 17:12:34 yes cjohnson Jul 01 17:13:18 lcuk: John Simpson's autobiography's quite interesting. Although he's *very* full of himself. Jon Snow's is also a good read, and much more humble. Jul 01 17:13:36 k Jul 01 17:13:40 zap: I have no connector, no keyboard, and my tablet is in a case preventing access to usb port Jul 01 17:13:59 :) Jul 01 17:14:10 cool :) Jul 01 17:14:12 and I have no BT keyboard Jul 01 17:14:24 * lcuk sends missus on a secret raid to whsmiths Jul 01 17:14:53 (not that secretive, she works there :D) Jul 01 17:16:40 did I somehow manage to subscribe to extras-cauldron-builds@garage.maemo.org with two email addresses, or is that list forwarded into maemo-dev@? Jul 01 17:17:06 mgedmin: it's not forwarded into maemo-dev. However, you get sent an email directly after you've uploaded a package. Jul 01 17:17:24 Is there a good list of things I should usually do upon a fresh install of OS2008? On my n800, I've slowly added repos and enabled red pill mode, etc...but I can't remember all the things I did. I just got my dad one, but I want to enable the extra stuff for him as well. Jul 01 17:17:25 but that's for your package only, right? Jul 01 17:17:26 mgedmin: subscribing to extras-cauldron-builds is only useful if you're interested in *other*'s builds. Jul 01 17:17:30 I'm getting all of them Jul 01 17:17:34 oh, duh Jul 01 17:17:39 no wait Jul 01 17:17:46 I'm getting all of them to one address Jul 01 17:17:51 Hmm. Odd. Jul 01 17:17:53 I forgot how many I got to the other address Jul 01 17:17:59 that could've been the personal ones Jul 01 17:18:05 * Jaffa afks to go and tell his grandparents another Jaffalet is on the way. Jul 01 17:18:15 Jaffa: congratulations! Jul 01 17:18:16 Anybody uses a USB keyboard with his tablet? Jul 01 17:18:24 Sorry, not USB, BT keyboard =) Jul 01 17:18:29 * mgedmin tried once, with a 770 Jul 01 17:18:32 oh Jul 01 17:18:35 Jaffa, congratulations :) Jul 01 17:18:39 * mgedmin tried a few times, with a n800 Jul 01 17:18:41 RST38h, I use the iGo Stowaway Jul 01 17:18:45 RST38h, it works pretty good Jul 01 17:18:49 :O Jaffa!!!! hope mrs Jaffa doesnt give birth to a tangareen Jul 01 17:18:54 congrats btw Jul 01 17:18:56 Jaffa: The same one or an improved version? :) Grats Jul 01 17:20:10 omg @ my horrid spellingm thats worse than usual Jul 01 17:20:18 will i be burned at the stake for trying to get ubuntu booting on n800? Jul 01 17:20:30 cjohnson: no skipped characters? Jul 01 17:20:31 cjohnson: yeah, here too Jul 01 17:20:45 RST38h: only repeated ones... Jul 01 17:20:56 Stskeeps: depends if you use the full ubuntu or not :-) Jul 01 17:20:58 Stskeeps, Nope. Hope it runs better than android on N800 :( Jul 01 17:21:12 qwerty12: android ran badly? Jul 01 17:21:13 ccooke: no clue.. i'm going to debootstrap and see if i can make it boot Jul 01 17:21:22 RST38h, I never get them...though the enter key in pidgin convos is a bit undersensitive Jul 01 17:21:31 Stskeeps: that should be very possible Jul 01 17:21:32 * RST38h is not getting repeats but the keys skip Jul 01 17:21:32 i usually have to wait until the screen catches up with my typing before hitting enter Jul 01 17:21:33 Stskeeps: installing MID? Jul 01 17:21:36 and there is lag Jul 01 17:21:43 aquatix: mojo.handhelds.org's port of ubuntu Jul 01 17:21:44 RST38h, do you have internet connection through bluetooth? Jul 01 17:21:46 ccooke, It runs except I can't get the touch screen to work with the provided patch Jul 01 17:21:59 cjohnson: nope Jul 01 17:22:39 qwerty12: friend of mine couldn't too Jul 01 17:22:46 cjohnson: i did Jul 01 17:23:20 hi all Jul 01 17:23:34 aquatix, thanks, nice to know I'm not alone :) Jul 01 17:23:49 :) Jul 01 17:23:56 aquatix, I've read that bluetooth for internet and for keyboard causes lag in the keyboard Jul 01 17:24:03 aquatix, especially with repeated characters Jul 01 17:24:03 he was quite underwhelmed by android too Jul 01 17:24:14 I'm using patches that I ported to the diablo kernel though so I can't straight apply some patches :? Jul 01 17:24:17 *:/ Jul 01 17:24:26 cjohnson: hm, i'll try in a minute with wifi Jul 01 17:24:28 mgedmin/lcuk/qwerty12/Blafasel: ta muchly. #1 is in the terrible twos, so hopefully an imrpvement :) Jul 01 17:24:33 how can I unlock the USB port? I'm trying to use USB Networking in Control Panel, but it says "USB Connection in use. Please disconnect the cable" but the cable is already disconnected.... Jul 01 17:24:55 my 6 year old just finished terrible twos ;) Jul 01 17:25:46 haha Jul 01 17:28:20 lcuk: noooooooooooooooooooo! Jul 01 17:29:04 Haha, I'd lol so badly if #1 and #2 ever are in the terrible twos together :P Jul 01 17:29:28 its ok, eldest managed to pull through that stage quickly, little jake is a bit behind. swings and roundabouts. hope yours aren't *that* bad for you Jul 01 17:29:29 is there any advantage of 2008HE over 2008? Jul 01 17:29:31 qwerty12: that's what sticks are for. Jul 01 17:29:43 Ha Jul 01 17:29:46 qwerty12, ive got a 6yr old and 13yr old who fight Jul 01 17:30:12 actually, now i think about it, the youngest acts older... Jul 01 17:30:19 Hehe Jul 01 17:30:54 admin_, 2008HE is for the older n770, os2008 is the actual os for the n800 and n810 Jul 01 17:31:05 ah ok lcuk , thanks Jul 01 17:31:24 hm, i have to re-pair my iGo Jul 01 17:31:29 +with Jul 01 17:31:46 threw it in the dock? Jul 01 17:32:54 now why doesn't it pair... Jul 01 17:33:05 * aquatix is typing the numbers the n810 suggests Jul 01 17:33:24 press enter? Jul 01 17:33:31 hm :) Jul 01 17:33:44 nope Jul 01 17:33:45 * Jaffa foods Jul 01 17:33:49 Jaffa: enjoy Jul 01 17:33:52 mgedmin, there is a hole in your mind. Jul 01 17:34:13 that's for ventilation Jul 01 17:34:18 :D heh Jul 01 17:34:22 otherwise it'd overheat Jul 01 17:34:34 i just did a massive mega search of google looking for something you told me Jul 01 17:34:40 what? Jul 01 17:34:55 the thing about packages sorted by install date, ive found it now Jul 01 17:35:16 and its not in the log :P Jul 01 17:35:27 povbot might've been sulking at the time Jul 01 17:35:28 i had to dig through text log here Jul 01 17:35:29 it does that sometimes Jul 01 17:35:37 ls -lrt /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.files Jul 01 17:35:41 povbot`: got that? Jul 01 17:35:41 mgedmin: Error: "got" is not a valid command. Jul 01 17:35:43 yer, ive noticed it runs out of the chan and slams the door as it goes Jul 01 17:36:04 oh, that was probably when I upgraded the kernel and had to wait 20 minutes for the fsck Jul 01 17:36:07 ahhh, your bot can talk in chan Jul 01 17:36:16 all it ever says is "error" Jul 01 17:36:27 ~lart stupid bots again Jul 01 17:36:28 * infobot shoves a crumpet down stupid bots again's throat, happy now?! Huh? Want some JAM with that? Jul 01 17:36:37 mmm, crumpet Jul 01 17:36:48 nothing wrong with a bit of crumpet Jul 01 17:37:09 infobot, fight with povbot` Jul 01 17:37:10 * infobot laughs as with povbot` reboots host-84-9-55-239.dslgb.com sending qwerty12 into the aether Jul 01 17:37:25 ok, not the result I desired Jul 01 17:37:57 not the result we desired either, it didnt actually kick you out :P Jul 01 17:38:11 northeners first :P Jul 01 17:38:32 why, cos you're scared? Jul 01 17:38:48 * lcuk grows up Jul 01 17:38:52 nah, us from the south can fight Jul 01 17:39:11 well, kinda, as I'm from the north >.< Jul 01 17:39:21 yer, unfortunately too many people do (from north or south and with weapons) Jul 01 17:40:09 * aquatix is baffled Jul 01 17:40:39 i type the darn code, but the tablet just says pairing failed device resources exceeded after a while Jul 01 17:45:47 hey.. is it true that Diablo is out? not just the beta version ? Jul 01 17:45:53 yes Jul 01 17:46:02 ~topic Jul 01 17:46:03 im searching maemo.org, but cant really find the guide on how to put it in.. Jul 01 17:46:07 i got this .bin file Jul 01 17:46:23 http://wiki.maemo.org/Upgrading_tablet_OS Jul 01 17:46:25 do you use windows? and have you got an 800 or 810 Jul 01 17:46:38 i use ubuntu, and have got 810 Jul 01 17:46:48 thank you GeneralAntilles Jul 01 17:46:51 then do what the general says Jul 01 17:47:14 lcuk, that page also covers Windows Jul 01 17:47:19 btw, does this mean that i should get N800 image, even if I have N810? "The N810 image integrates minor optimizations and bugfixes, while the N800 image offers now full functionality and several bugfixes found after the developer beta release made last month." Jul 01 17:47:27 it sounds like the N800 image is better Jul 01 17:47:32 ~flashing is covered at http://wiki.maemo.org/Upgrading_tablet_OS Jul 01 17:47:33 GeneralAntilles: okay Jul 01 17:47:48 Er, mange, where do you see that? Jul 01 17:47:59 http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/first_official_os2008_update.html Jul 01 17:48:17 That was when the N800's first OS2008 beta image was released. Jul 01 17:48:18 oh, maybe thats old :) Jul 01 17:48:22 sorry Jul 01 17:48:23 The images are in sync now. Jul 01 17:48:24 since that was last year relating to the chinook release Jul 01 17:48:41 Pre-Chinook Jul 01 17:49:08 besides you cannot flash the n800 image on a n810 Jul 01 17:49:12 the flasher won't let you Jul 01 17:49:24 hm Jul 01 17:49:29 I thin Jul 01 17:49:46 actually I once tried flashing a 770 image on a n800, and got a scary write error in the middle Jul 01 17:49:55 instead of a nice "wrong image, dummy!" at the beginning Jul 01 17:55:52 ah, it paired Jul 01 17:56:52 typing from n810 with iGo bt keyboard Jul 01 17:57:04 it's a bit slow, but at least it doesn't repeat now Jul 01 17:57:22 so i guess those repeats came from internet through bt too Jul 01 18:00:48 oh, that's interesting Jul 01 18:00:58 Ubuntu 7.04 Nokia-N800-51-3 tty1 Jul 01 18:01:04 Nokia-N800-51-3 login: Jul 01 18:01:27 ofcourse something's horridly bad, but it works :) Jul 01 18:01:57 .. atleast sortof Jul 01 18:04:37 Stskeeps: what's that? telnet or serial console? Jul 01 18:04:46 mgedmin: booted into it Jul 01 18:04:51 wait, Ubuntu?! Jul 01 18:04:52 so console framebuffer Jul 01 18:04:52 wow Jul 01 18:04:56 does wireless work? Jul 01 18:05:05 hey, i just made it work like i made debian bootstrap initially :P Jul 01 18:05:17 patience ;) Jul 01 18:05:56 and wireless would work with same tricks as in debian Jul 01 18:07:21 how is the power management in debian on n810? Jul 01 18:07:27 similar batterytime? Jul 01 18:07:33 mange: wifi not so good, rest decent Jul 01 18:07:52 there's beta3 by johnx and then there's our from bottom up (doing it correctly) debian installer Jul 01 18:08:00 beta3 is more feature complete right now Jul 01 18:08:01 okay.. so, like .. 4 hours of usage? Jul 01 18:08:07 no clue Jul 01 18:08:07 :P Jul 01 18:10:10 okay, can anyone tell me what the hell ':' means in a shell script? Jul 01 18:10:13 as in, standalone, : Jul 01 18:10:41 same as /bin/true Jul 01 18:10:55 it's a shell builtin Jul 01 18:11:05 try help : if you're running under something smarter than busybox sh Jul 01 18:11:11 okay, so i obviously have something broken in my ubuntu since it complains about it not working.. Jul 01 18:11:26 \h:\w$ : Jul 01 18:11:26 dash: :: not found Jul 01 18:11:54 shouldn't you have %'s in there? Jul 01 18:12:26 ah no, ignore that Jul 01 18:12:42 Stskeeps: what's the complete line? Jul 01 18:13:24 aquatix: think it's a bashism - i read in the ubuntu bootstrap for armel that they disable dash completely or things mess up Jul 01 18:13:27 and it matches what i saw Jul 01 18:13:35 ah Jul 01 18:13:43 that could very well be the cause indeed Jul 01 18:13:45 <|tbb|> i have insmod some modules (iptables) how can i tell them to use the shared libarys which stay /lib/iptables ? Every time i run iptables -t nat .... i became segmention fault Jul 01 18:14:06 * Stskeeps reboots ubuntu Jul 01 18:14:18 Stskeeps: : works in my dash Jul 01 18:14:39 mgedmin: alright - guess it's cos it's 7.04 or something Jul 01 18:14:45 hm, 8.04 here Jul 01 18:15:06 * Stskeeps tries installing some more debian-nit packages to it and see how well it keeps up Jul 01 18:31:11 Anybody knows if the tremor library is available anywhere as a separate package? Jul 01 18:31:17 (I mean in maemo repos_ Jul 01 18:36:23 right, i now officially have ubuntu 7.04 booting in a sane manner :) (base system, no GUI just yet.) Jul 01 18:36:30 (on n800) Jul 01 18:36:39 cool :) Jul 01 18:36:52 with usb0 just for now.. not sure how ubuntu allows for firmware loading for wireless Jul 01 18:38:11 can you try usb networking with windoz? Jul 01 18:38:28 or it uses the regular nokia kernel? Jul 01 18:38:31 why 7.04? isn't that a kind of old ubuntu? Jul 01 18:38:33 normal nokia kernel Jul 01 18:38:50 mange: http://mojo.handhelds.org/distributions Jul 01 18:38:53 that's why Jul 01 18:38:53 :P Jul 01 18:39:28 oh, by no GUI i mean X, but i have console framebuffer Jul 01 18:39:46 it'd be cool to run http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile on n810 Jul 01 18:40:09 recompile for arm Jul 01 18:40:15 and opengl support Jul 01 18:40:25 good luck with that. Jul 01 18:40:34 doesn't it have a flash interface too? Jul 01 18:40:44 armel technically Jul 01 18:43:50 * Stskeeps considers being suicidal and installing ubuntu-desktop and Xomap. Jul 01 18:44:36 ah heck, can't find my livecd. bloody rndis bug Jul 01 18:46:09 One question: I'm reviewing the debian policy to find out what build-depends I have to use in my package Jul 01 18:46:22 and I see an example like this: Jul 01 18:46:34 hmm, SDL from N8xx can upscale only YUV data? Not RGB? Jul 01 18:46:48 Build-Depends: kernel-headers-2.2.10 [!hurd-i386], hurd-dev [hurd-i386], gnumach-dev [hurd-i386] Jul 01 18:47:10 and I see that "hurd-i386" is the architecture Jul 01 18:47:25 What would be the architecture in Maemo? Jul 01 18:47:40 armel Jul 01 18:47:51 hmmm Jul 01 18:48:18 but how can I distiguish desktop i386 from maemo i386 ? Jul 01 18:48:34 (for compilation in the scratchbox) Jul 01 18:49:31 I'd like my package to depend on hildon libs when built for maemo-i386 or maemo-armel, but not when built for desktop-i386 Jul 01 18:50:18 (I already have autoconf tests to detect in what environment is the package being compiled) Jul 01 19:01:33 * Jaffa 's Eee now on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250265662948&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=015 Jul 01 19:02:01 thanks for the spam Jul 01 19:03:50 Frree viagra.. call now!1 Jul 01 19:04:18 Hi, did anyone know how to enable xshm in xfbdev Jul 01 19:04:19 * doc|home prefers C14l4S Jul 01 19:04:36 doc|home: why, you're very welcome Jul 01 19:15:30 hmm, this is kinda annoying.. i upgraded to Diablo, and now i cant pair with my phone, because my phone operator is no longer in the list (shown by pairing wizard) Jul 01 19:16:12 which operator is it Jul 01 19:17:30 Set up manually? . . . Jul 01 19:18:11 it's Tele2 Comviq Jul 01 19:18:17 it used to be in the list :( Jul 01 19:18:37 that's a swedish network right? Jul 01 19:18:39 the problem is, if I select "none", no connection is added to the COnnections list, so i cant configure it manually (like the wizard propose) Jul 01 19:19:01 but i just found a workaround, if i add some other operator, and then edit that profile with the stuff from tele2 comviqs homepage, it might work Jul 01 19:19:37 My n800 dims on boot. Even before diablo, is there a setting a way to stop it? Jul 01 19:20:01 bootmenu? . . . Jul 01 19:20:30 Hrm? Jul 01 19:21:12 fanoush's initfs can be set up to set brightness on boot. Jul 01 19:21:17 how does the AGPS tool work? i just see a world map and i can move around a small crosshair Jul 01 19:21:23 Ah I see. Jul 01 19:21:31 isn't it suppose to download stuff from the network? i have an active wifi conn up Jul 01 19:21:38 mange, see the Nokia beta page for details. Jul 01 19:21:43 mange, stop moving the crosshair around, you are sending my gps wonky Jul 01 19:22:06 And what should I do if one or both of my sd cards sends the 800 into a freeze, and then reboot cycle? Jul 01 19:22:31 take it out? Jul 01 19:22:47 install ksyslogd and post the log somewhere Jul 01 19:23:22 i can affect your gps from mine? :) Jul 01 19:24:39 mange, just use the agps map to set roughly where you are. it helps the magic inside your tablet to do its stuff (hopefully faster than before) Jul 01 19:24:41 * qwerty12_N800 changes target of us military gpses to north pole Jul 01 19:24:58 i hope so.. i was never able to get a fix before :) Jul 01 19:25:05 im gonna head outside now and see this magic Jul 01 19:25:35 kinda rough triangulation.. i mean, 1 pixel must be like several miles on that world map :P Jul 01 19:27:06 Where can klogd's logs be found? Jul 01 19:27:20 /var/log iirc Jul 01 19:27:49 ahty Jul 01 19:33:47 X-Fade: around? Jul 01 19:35:57 hi Jul 01 19:36:47 Wikier, http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNKVUNBWIDAS9YQ Jul 01 19:37:27 thx m-vo Jul 01 19:37:30 let see Jul 01 19:38:25 I quite like "'Air guitar and attitude' won't do." Jul 01 19:38:58 Alan Kay is in the comments. Jul 01 19:39:36 its ivan Jul 01 19:39:48 wikier is the sergios nick :) Jul 01 19:40:30 I know! :-) Jul 01 19:42:01 Another nice one: "Diversity without thresholds is simply Babel." Jul 01 19:46:17 hmmm... is it just me or is http://wiki.maemo.org (ie. the main wiki page) broken? I'm getting a blank page in Firefox, "The request or reply is too large. " in IE7 Jul 01 19:46:24 https is ok though Jul 01 19:46:42 milhouse: press reload/refresh Jul 01 19:46:46 i have - same Jul 01 19:46:52 blank here too Jul 01 19:46:54 ctrl-r, no joy Jul 01 19:47:12 milhouse: Ctrl-Shift-R ? Jul 01 19:47:29 That fixed it for me. Some cache somewhere's got the blank version in Jul 01 19:47:41 ah ha, same here Jul 01 19:47:43 trying c-s-r... Jul 01 19:48:17 joy - that worked, thanks jaffa! Jul 01 19:49:32 it came up blank for me a few times but then worked after about 5 bashes. perhaps it needs multi hits to wake it up Jul 01 19:49:32 np Jul 01 19:50:58 * lardman wonders how to avoid saturation Jul 01 19:51:29 lardman, yake a brolly Jul 01 19:51:32 take even Jul 01 19:51:40 I was waiting for it :) Jul 01 19:52:06 I actually meant when doing fixed point multiplies Jul 01 19:52:39 fixed point as in normal ints? Jul 01 19:53:01 floats multiplied by a factor to make them ints Jul 01 19:53:13 put a 0 in there - that should do it :) Jul 01 19:53:24 :) Jul 01 19:53:35 lose significance then though ;p Jul 01 19:53:53 fudge factors - what ranges do you need Jul 01 19:54:08 and are these still 16bit ints Jul 01 19:54:23 yeah, I need to sit down and work out what will be significant at the end of the calc Jul 01 19:54:48 16bit ints turn into 32bit ints by the end, with 2 or so multiplies by floats Jul 01 19:55:34 well 16*16 normally requires a 32bit result. thats nothing new, why get floats involved at all? Jul 01 19:55:45 part of the spec Jul 01 19:56:12 is this the audio comp Jul 01 19:56:19 yep, sbc Jul 01 19:59:39 lardman, wheres the spec you are pllaying with at the mo? is it online Jul 01 20:00:34 hmm, what to do if I apt-get'ed sources of a package (in Ubuntu), then built it, it built fine but the version number contains "ubuntu" in it? Jul 01 20:00:47 should I change ubuntu into maemo? Jul 01 20:00:58 lcuk: here: http://www.bluetooth.com/NR/rdonlyres/800D10CD-DE3D-4D51-ABC0-726C8DF26151/921/A2DPspecv10.pdf Jul 01 20:01:18 zap: afaik version doesn't matter anything.. Jul 01 20:01:55 bbiab Jul 01 20:02:21 zap: I don't suppose there's much point in tweaking version unless you're changing something else Jul 01 20:02:30 but I suppose m-vo can lecture on versions :P Jul 01 20:02:42 question is, will such a package be accepted into, say, maemo-extras? Jul 01 20:03:06 I can lecture on anything! Jul 01 20:04:38 zap, if you made no changes whatsoever, just keep the original version. Jul 01 20:05:06 Lecture on why app manager has no never show nokia legal warning again button please? :p Jul 01 20:06:00 Uhh, qwerty12_N800, i didn't really get what you are saying. Jul 01 20:06:18 You want the legal notice dialog to go away? Jul 01 20:06:41 Ahh, no i can parse your sentence! :-) Jul 01 20:06:48 s/no/now/ Jul 01 20:06:48 m-vo meant: Ahh, now i can parse your sentence! :-) Jul 01 20:06:58 Sorry, i type badly :/ Jul 01 20:07:29 just some quotes missing... :) Jul 01 20:08:08 Hi, how i can download the wayfinder map on my computer to after copy to my n800 ??? Jul 01 20:08:34 the legal notice dialog actually is there for legal reasons, i don't feel confident enough to just put in a red-pill mode setting... Jul 01 20:09:51 I can see your pov and i respect it. Ah well, I am thankfyul for it being open source. :) Jul 01 20:10:08 s/thankfyul/thankful? Jul 01 20:10:14 */ Jul 01 20:11:14 we can think about putting up the warning only once when activating uncertified repositories. Jul 01 20:11:58 let me put an entry into the FUTURE file... Jul 01 20:16:50 qwerty12_N800, you could hack the 'domain' configuration and make all repositories 'certified', but that only works for signed repos. Jul 01 20:16:57 maemo Extras is not signed... Jul 01 20:18:50 m-vo, i've already patched the application manager source not to show the message but then i have resort to apt pinning to make sure it doesn't show up in the update list. in the age and dawn of ssu, i don't wish to do that :) Jul 01 20:21:17 qwerty12_N800, wanna try out the 'unlocked' version of the OS? :) That should allow you to install your own version of the AM. Jul 01 20:21:54 apt-get install osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked Jul 01 20:22:04 m-vo, I was for a while, remember the guy called faheem on your blog? :) Jul 01 20:22:29 Yeah, that was you? Jul 01 20:22:37 Yeah :) Jul 01 20:22:51 Aha! Jul 01 20:23:09 So, why do you need to pin apt-get? Jul 01 20:23:32 do you all use the dual-boot "option" ? Jul 01 20:23:34 i just checked the update list in red pill mode, and i see a operating system package. hands off? Jul 01 20:23:57 m-vo,because I reflashed to the final release of diablo :) Jul 01 20:24:38 t_s_o, it's not very useful right now, but should be harmless... Jul 01 20:25:20 Right, and your hacked version of hildon-application-manager has the same version as the official one? Jul 01 20:25:29 yes Jul 01 20:28:04 so how are you supposed to get this new release thingie? Jul 01 20:28:16 and apt-get wants to re-install the one from the repo because it is different? Jul 01 20:28:27 anyone successfully installed syslogd on a diablo device? Jul 01 20:28:40 m-vo, yes :) Jul 01 20:28:58 looks like anything i try to install from http://maemo.org/development/tools/ is knackered Jul 01 20:29:10 unmet dependencies Jul 01 20:29:10 so the clean thing is to give yours a higher version, but the osso-software-version-rx34 doesn't allow it, right? Jul 01 20:29:36 milhouse, i'm using a version that nokia appear to distribute internally fine on diablo ;) Jul 01 20:30:38 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=198240 (Android Anyone??) (thank Qwerty12) Jul 01 20:30:38 this is all i get: http://pastebin.ca/1059916 Jul 01 20:30:46 :) Jul 01 20:31:00 the only repositories i have are Extras (chinook version) and the diablo tools Jul 01 20:31:15 maybe i should disable chinook extras... Jul 01 20:33:25 disabling chinook extras made no difference Jul 01 20:33:38 be interesting to see if anyone else has a problem, then i'll report it Jul 01 20:36:54 woah Jul 01 20:36:57 qwerty12_N800, what i am getting at is that you should install the osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked package. Jul 01 20:37:24 m-vo, will do, thank you Jul 01 20:37:35 That will not touch any other package, but will allow the installation of higher versions of OS packages. Jul 01 20:50:00 milhouse: I've seen that mentioned somewhere Jul 01 20:50:23 got a link before I fire off an email to integration at maemo.org? :) Jul 01 20:50:39 just checked the mailing lists, didn't see anything obvious Jul 01 20:51:16 yeah, I thought m-vo commented on it Jul 01 20:51:18 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/users/38023 Jul 01 20:51:36 good man - thanks Jul 01 20:52:01 so basically "just do as it says" Jul 01 20:52:17 tried -f still no joy Jul 01 20:52:26 still reading though :) Jul 01 20:54:09 milhouse, do "apt-get -f install" exactly, with no packages after the "install" Jul 01 20:54:30 apt-get ought to have a "apt-get fix" command instead. Jul 01 20:54:44 hi Jul 01 20:54:49 test Jul 01 20:54:59 ah - thanks m-vo Jul 01 20:55:06 i was a bit slow there :) Jul 01 20:55:53 yeah, -f install rather sounds like a --force Jul 01 20:56:11 I'll vote for apt-get unfuck though Jul 01 20:56:29 :-) Jul 01 20:57:07 apt-get stop-whining-and-pull-yourself-together-willya Jul 01 20:57:07 but i want me some apt-get fuck ;) :P Jul 01 21:01:39 Hmm. Trying to add an icon for my vim.desktop entry in the extras menu and instead of showing the icon, it's displaying a smaller version of the generic-app icon. Anyone seen that before? Jul 01 21:09:08 Jaffa, what's the size (pixel wise) of the icon? Jul 01 21:10:53 Does it do any scaling or does it have to be exact? Jul 01 21:13:59 I'm looking at the skype-installer package, it has a 64x64 icon in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/skype.png and a 24x24 in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/26x26/hildon/skype.png. the menu item choses to display the 64x64 one and it does so successfully. Jul 01 21:16:30 ta. I was looking at mplayer and had no success copying it Jul 01 21:18:43 Hmm, no luck. Of course, the PNG file could be broken Jul 01 21:19:28 Don't mean to act noob, but was gtk icon cache updated? Jul 01 21:20:28 Think so. I'll double check Jul 01 21:24:47 Aha, --force seems to have done something. Not the right something, but /something/ Jul 01 21:27:35 bmidgley: ping Jul 01 21:28:00 windy here ... Jul 01 21:28:14 or indeed is there anyone about who is familiar with fixed point arithmetic? Jul 01 21:28:17 so does diablo fix the red pill bug in application manager, where you cant read the names? Jul 01 21:28:29 yes. Jul 01 21:28:31 lardman: I about know what it is Jul 01 21:28:46 not sure if that counts as 'familiar' Jul 01 21:28:54 arithmetic? Jul 01 21:28:58 * qwerty12_N800 runs Jul 01 21:29:05 * Jaffa is a little familiar Jul 01 21:29:27 mgedmin: I'm just wondering whether to keep the denominator factors(?) and left shift them all off at the end, or to do so after each multiply Jul 01 21:30:06 who was it that recompiled the applicaiton manager and removed the warning message? Jul 01 21:31:03 me, but it needs updating for the latest version Jul 01 21:31:07 lardman: wouldn't that risk overflow? Jul 01 21:31:26 also, left shift? not right shift? Jul 01 21:31:36 mgedmin: yes on both counts Jul 01 21:32:00 qwerty12_N800 would you think the diablo app-man would work in chinook? Jul 01 21:32:03 should be dividing/right shifting after the multiply Jul 01 21:32:40 Atarii, maybe after a lot of compiles. the diablo one uses newer apt. Jul 01 21:33:11 ah right Jul 01 21:33:23 I once had it working in chinook using old apt and result was a bit ugly :/ Jul 01 21:34:53 well i guess this is a good place to start developing, gives me a goal to aim for Jul 01 21:35:40 Atarii, if you just want to get rid of the legal notice dialog, hack the AM version in chinook. Jul 01 21:35:55 The sources are all there. Jul 01 21:36:20 i want to fix the names thing mostly Jul 01 21:37:03 ahh, you mean where long versions truncate the names? Jul 01 21:37:07 but good idea, ill start with the legal notice, as qwerty can give advice if i go wrong :p Jul 01 21:37:55 is gio in diablo? Jul 01 21:38:36 Atarii, the package list is now done with a Cairo cell renderer, but the code around it has not changed much. Jul 01 21:38:52 I think we even have it ifdeffed nicely so that you can see the changes Jul 01 21:41:54 m-vo, just out of question, using osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked wouldn't affect ssu would it? Jul 01 21:42:38 no, you will still get the updates Jul 01 21:43:16 the difference between the normal and the -unlocked package is only the style of dependencies: -unlocked uses >=. Jul 01 21:43:28 ah! oh, thank you Jul 01 21:43:49 Thus you get at least the official versions, but you can have higher ones. Jul 01 21:45:21 cool Jul 01 21:45:28 where do you get the -unlocked one? Jul 01 21:45:46 from the "Nokia System Sofware Updates" repository. Jul 01 21:46:03 double cool! Jul 01 21:46:14 heh, i remember good times with that repo... Jul 01 21:47:09 it's still there, we just don't update it everz week anymore. Jul 01 21:47:35 (obviously) Jul 01 21:48:14 just out of question, how come ftd + nitro + sp-oops-extract was removed after adding the password? Jul 01 21:48:29 qwerty12_N800, if you spread the information about -unlocked: there are two packages, one for N800 (rx34) and one for N810 (rx44). People need to pick the right one. Jul 01 21:48:57 qwerty12_N800, it was a mistake that they were there in the first place. Jul 01 21:49:18 m-vo, this was already spread when people were trying to install beta diablo :p :) Jul 01 21:50:07 Two mistakes happened with perfect timing: the password wasn't installed, and a internal variant of the OS that we use for testing was released to the 'public' repo. Jul 01 21:50:14 m-vo, cannot deny I benefited from it. i stiill use ftd in the officialy released diablo Jul 01 21:51:15 The second was my mistake, so I am happy that you benefit! :) Jul 01 21:54:17 :) . if you can say this, was a fixed ftd-plugin-bme ever distrobuted? Jul 01 21:55:50 no clue, sorry. Jul 01 21:58:42 * m-vo Zzzzzz Jul 01 21:59:13 heh night, thank you for all the answers Jul 01 21:59:30 np! Jul 01 21:59:31 thank you for all the questions. Jul 01 22:11:28 thank you qwerty12_N800 :) Jul 01 22:12:16 m-c, np, but I forgot why :) Jul 01 22:13:09 lardman, with your scaled integers, have you chosen a fudge factor yet? did you identify the required domain Jul 01 22:16:57 lcuk: not especially, I think I'll just use Q15 for the floating point stuff Jul 01 22:17:16 lcuk: then the DSP will be happy doing 16x16bit->32bit multiplies Jul 01 22:17:52 it will, and you should shift back down after each multiply operation Jul 01 22:18:04 lcuk: DSP also does that Jul 01 22:18:05 this is unfortunately where the error ends up Jul 01 22:18:47 dsp does shift, or full automatic scaled integer math? Jul 01 22:19:03 dsp will do Q15 x Q15 with a shift Jul 01 22:19:13 in a single intrinsic Jul 01 22:19:20 nice Jul 01 22:19:33 so will stick with that and see what the error is like Jul 01 22:19:53 it also does saturation in the above multiply Jul 01 22:20:07 for years and years i was used to using fixed point math to do fractal calculations Jul 01 22:20:23 you get "near enough" for most cases Jul 01 22:20:50 I've never had to think about it before :) Jul 01 22:21:16 it's simple, until you start thinking about the errors (but then floating point has the same problems) Jul 01 22:21:31 what's Q15? Jul 01 22:21:32 yer, it took me a while reading the fractint code and book Jul 01 22:21:54 15 fractional bits Jul 01 22:21:57 mgedmin: fixed point format, Q15 = fp * 2^15 Jul 01 22:22:16 what does the 'Q' stand for in the name? Jul 01 22:22:40 s/Q15 = fp * 2^15/Q15 = round(fp * 2^15) Jul 01 22:22:41 wikipedia doesnt know it just says the "Q" prefix Jul 01 22:22:44 * mgedmin last saw fixed point formats like 16.16 or 8.24 Jul 01 22:23:07 mgedmin: yeah same thing, it's Q0.15 Jul 01 22:23:23 actually, it does :D theres a whole article on it Jul 01 22:23:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_%28number_format%29 Jul 01 22:23:38 surely 1.15? Jul 01 22:23:50 no Jul 01 22:23:52 hm Jul 01 22:24:03 what happens to the bit that's left over? Jul 01 22:24:05 no, Q15 = Q0.15 Jul 01 22:24:10 sign bit Jul 01 22:24:14 I think Jul 01 22:24:14 doh! Jul 01 22:24:28 thats why its not q16 Jul 01 22:24:52 Still doesn't say why it;s called 'Q' :) Jul 01 22:26:39 http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spru565b/spru565b.pdf Jul 01 22:27:05 appendix a2 specifies the Q format used on your dsp Jul 01 22:27:10 crap Jul 01 22:27:11 if its ours Jul 01 22:27:37 what was it that had all the checkboxes for the LED notification? Jul 01 22:27:42 lcuk: no, ours is c55 Jul 01 22:28:07 Mousey, the display control panel Jul 01 22:28:13 ty Jul 01 22:28:40 lcuk: No issues with the Q format though; just why the Q? Jul 01 22:29:03 lardman :) close enough then: the q format appears to hjave come from ti though as a descriptor for the shifted format. still no idea as to where it came from Jul 01 22:29:35 or rather why.. Jul 01 22:29:47 quotient perhaps Jul 01 22:30:12 anyway, bed time, will have to pre-process the coefficient tables tomorrow and see if the code runs :) Jul 01 22:30:33 well it will run, see if it spits out the right noises :D Jul 01 22:32:13 qwerty12_N800, :P thanks, ill package the next one Jul 01 22:32:32 :) Jul 01 22:33:08 qwerty12_N800, even a tar wouldnt help folks copying to mmc Jul 01 22:33:49 True, but then, that's their fault :p Jul 01 22:34:30 ultimate way is to make a deb but i'd say that's premature for a test version of a program :) Jul 01 22:34:47 my thoughts exactly Jul 01 22:34:47 not necessarily Jul 01 22:34:57 does it run ok on peoples computers by the way Jul 01 23:07:17 johnx: You here? Jul 01 23:48:34 so now diablo doesn't do the wonderful thing with the mail icon anymore? =( Jul 02 02:23:34 When I try to install openssh-server (or openssh-anything), I get the error "Unable to install openssh-server," before it even starts downloading. Any idea why this happens? Jul 02 02:23:41 That's in chinook, by the way. Jul 02 02:26:03 Oh, can anyone share with me the repositories used in the maemo sdk vmware appliance? Jul 02 02:35:22 oh yay it works in diablo Jul 02 02:37:39 Well, I think it works. I don't remember key generation taking this long. Jul 02 02:37:50 Ah, there we go. Jul 02 02:56:42 Niice. It has tar. And tar works. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 02 02:59:56 2008