**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 07 02:59:57 2008 Jul 07 03:08:18 hi guys~If I could get your help, this is my greatest honour Jul 07 03:09:01 jackg: about gstreamer? Jul 07 03:09:19 yeah~ Jul 07 03:09:49 jackg: Sorry, I don't know much about that. Have you tried the internettablettalk forums yet? Jul 07 03:10:09 i do not know how to stream video from pc to n800(maemo)~ Jul 07 03:11:13 thank you all the same~ Jul 07 03:12:38 jackg: from a linux box to the n800 or from windows to n800? Jul 07 03:16:52 I wonder whether i can use gst-launch from send side to the n800 ? But the hantro4200enc is the special plugins from arm~ Jul 07 03:16:54 If realizing a linux box to the n800, how to realize it ? Jul 07 03:23:54 Is there a pre-existing installation for libgnet>=2.0 for OS2008? Jul 07 04:40:59 could this be done on os2006? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=199639#post199639 Jul 07 04:42:21 that's a definite "maybe" Jul 07 04:43:36 maybe install OS2008 HE on my nokia 770? that would be a world of buginess Jul 07 04:44:18 well, the actual debian stuff will run fine Jul 07 04:45:42 what you need to find is how much OS2008 stuff it depends on Jul 07 04:45:47 it might not be much (any?) Jul 07 04:55:45 is there any way to make free calls to landlines and mobile phones? Jul 07 04:56:00 I've heard of grand central Jul 07 04:56:12 also, there may be other local services depending on your area Jul 07 04:57:58 yeah grand central is not giving out invitations Jul 07 04:58:04 or i heard it takes like 3 months Jul 07 04:58:37 I just ended up buying some skype-out minutes Jul 07 05:40:04 http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/sys/744177558.html Jul 07 05:41:19 if I was anywhere close I might be tempted Jul 07 06:45:53 good morning Jul 07 06:50:09 hello Jul 07 06:50:45 wow, this diablo release finally makes my n800 fun to use.. Jul 07 06:51:06 everything is faster Jul 07 06:51:06 yea? Jul 07 06:51:42 doesn't seem to get bogged down all the ttime Jul 07 06:52:38 quick q i cannot figure out, how to make moe fit on my rss feed applet... Jul 07 06:53:15 sorry i dont know Jul 07 06:53:41 how can i make font smaller, i only get 4 items.. but have seen screenshots where more stuff seems to fit Jul 07 06:54:58 you might be able to use a theme with a smaller font Jul 07 06:55:49 hmm. .. will try.. Jul 07 06:56:45 i kinda fear .debs that will repartition something on my device :S Jul 07 06:58:35 then don't use them Jul 07 06:58:47 then read the source Jul 07 06:58:49 especially when i cant find the source code for them? Jul 07 06:58:56 unpack the deb... Jul 07 06:59:05 read the script, do the same thing manually Jul 07 06:59:27 i'll do, that is for sure :) Jul 07 06:59:43 but for the users that do not understand what they are doing, those .debs are bad Jul 07 06:59:53 what .debs are we talking about Jul 07 06:59:55 if not supervised by the community at least Jul 07 07:00:05 why? as long as they come with a proper warning and instructions Jul 07 07:00:07 does not seem to change font size...regardless of theme Jul 07 07:00:12 summatusmentis: penguinbait.com Jul 07 07:00:22 prez00, even themes that have a smaller font size? Jul 07 07:00:32 that crossed my mind when checking out the wiki-page https://wiki.maemo.org/Partitioning_a_flash_card Jul 07 07:00:35 oh... and why are they scary? Jul 07 07:00:39 for fixing that Jul 07 07:00:52 macoute: so you want to try a new os without formating? Jul 07 07:01:21 keesj: i can "format" but i dont want some mysterious .deb-file to do that for me Jul 07 07:01:23 well I guess one can loopmount Jul 07 07:01:32 penguinabait's .debs work well, and are probably the best way for those of us that don't want to use sfdisk Jul 07 07:01:50 johnx i tried all the themes.. at least the ones included Jul 07 07:02:05 macoute: .debs are in no way mysterious. As others have said, it's just a package with a script and binaries in it. Jul 07 07:02:22 prez00, those themes all have the same font size...I'm talking about other themes that have *different* font sizes... Jul 07 07:02:33 summatusmentis: i know that (and i too know that .deb is not the place for a bash script) Jul 07 07:02:40 but im talking about less-experienced users Jul 07 07:03:15 why are less experienced users, if they're installing these .debs, going to care that much? Jul 07 07:03:17 if they use penguinbaits deb (and hopefully find it working) will they try xxx.deb too which will brick their devices? Jul 07 07:03:44 we should try to teach the new users into understanding what they are doing imo Jul 07 07:03:55 johnx where do i get those? Jul 07 07:04:00 and not give them the false idea of .debs that can be installed whenever you find one Jul 07 07:04:17 macoute: you are totaly missing the point Jul 07 07:04:27 prez00, maemo.org/downloads Jul 07 07:04:28 keesj: how long have you been using linux? Jul 07 07:04:41 10 year + Jul 07 07:04:45 and how long have you tried and teach new users? Jul 07 07:04:55 every day? Jul 07 07:04:58 how typical it is that they install something which they doesnt understand at all? Jul 07 07:05:03 they=new users Jul 07 07:05:11 you know when you run an unknown .exe on windows, you can get bad results too Jul 07 07:05:27 macoute: I don't know Jul 07 07:05:46 tank-man: that is true, thats why i dont recommend running an .exe-file whenever you find one Jul 07 07:06:03 macoute, so what is the solution? Jul 07 07:06:23 any reference to penguinbait's .debs warn users as to what the .debs will do... Jul 07 07:06:34 I don't like that the .deb file i snot located on a maemo.org server or that is not build from "source" so everybody can check the quality Jul 07 07:07:11 keesj, does it contain any binary components? Jul 07 07:07:16 it's all scripts, right? Jul 07 07:07:22 summatusmentis: i dont see anything on penguinbait.com Jul 07 07:07:25 macoute: of often have you helpe people format theire harddrive? and how often has you install famoush's flasher? Jul 07 07:08:10 macoute, that's fair. poke at penguinbait to add a warning Jul 07 07:08:19 macoute: how does one get to penguinbait.com? Jul 07 07:08:29 and i dont blame penguinbait, hes doing great work Jul 07 07:08:48 summatusmentis: by some html-compliant browser, i suppose? :) Jul 07 07:08:51 johnx tks, will look Jul 07 07:08:58 johnx: it's about thrust. pbait can change the .deb file any time he like , so 100 people can say "yes it works" and ther rest is saying "it installed a troyan" Jul 07 07:09:15 keesj: and that is my point, too Jul 07 07:09:22 macoute: :) heh, but seriously, the only place I've ever seen it referenced is ITT threads, with numerous warnings Jul 07 07:09:41 and a source package would change that how? or even a script with the same name? Jul 07 07:09:42 or some evil guy can crack down penguinbaits site and then deliver false version of his .debs Jul 07 07:10:12 alright, so the solution to that is GPG signed .debs Jul 07 07:10:24 I guess ultimately, if you're installing anything that you didn't either build yourself, or watch build, you're trusting that it'll do what it says Jul 07 07:10:37 true too Jul 07 07:10:41 no way gpg works either Jul 07 07:10:54 but i rather trust maemo.org (for example) than foobar.ru Jul 07 07:11:20 and i rather trust 100 guys who are responsible (somehow) than only one guy Jul 07 07:11:52 it's not like someone at maemo.org vets every single line of code Jul 07 07:11:59 root kits or trojans would still be possible Jul 07 07:12:01 why? there's just as much possibility that maemo.org gets cracked, or someone tampers with Jul 07 07:12:02 it's about kowing the .deb file was creates from what source, and the only way to do that is to let somebody else create the package(extras' builder) Jul 07 07:12:40 summatusmentis: if maemo.org gets hacked, i trust there are a lot of users who will notice it and quicly report it. Jul 07 07:12:52 * johnx heads off for now Jul 07 07:12:52 how? Jul 07 07:13:05 how is that any different from penguinbait's stuff? Jul 07 07:13:08 if pbaits own computer at his home gets hacked while hes on a vacation, itll take 2 weeks before he notices it Jul 07 07:13:11 I am totaly used to the amound ot clicks I have to press for any package. it doesn't help at all Jul 07 07:13:47 macoute: modification of one package on maemo.org isn't that different Jul 07 07:14:05 summatusmentis: actually, it is Jul 07 07:14:22 ultimately it's a level of trust, and who you trust Jul 07 07:14:25 anyway... hoppping out of this disc :P Jul 07 07:14:31 thats true Jul 07 07:15:06 and as i said, id rather trust maemo.org (and ultimately nokia) as some random dudes website, dont you? Jul 07 07:15:08 so if users are going to blindly trust anyone, then they probably deserve to have their device bricked, just like any windows user Jul 07 07:15:23 I think there's a point being missed: it's not about any one repo; in general the intention is to have a main repo that is 'professionally' managed, open and relatively secure. Nothing stops other people distributing code; but nothing stops devs using the main repo either. One main repo is easier to secure than hundreds of smaller ones. Jul 07 07:15:42 and users will blindly trust anyone if we teach them to do that Jul 07 07:16:17 but if we tell them that you shouldnt install ANYTHING but from maemo.org official repositories, they will learn a valuable lesson :) Jul 07 07:16:20 macoute: I'm not going to just install anything, but I generally trust someone w/ a name for themselves in the community Jul 07 07:16:50 anything but maemo.org repos? you're missing lots of software then :-/ Jul 07 07:17:24 summatusmentis: and a lot of confusement too ;) Jul 07 07:17:36 it's all about risk and risk assessment. Community standing affects risk perception. Jul 07 07:17:41 I agree, there needs to be a centralized repo Jul 07 07:17:51 lbt: yes, agreed Jul 07 07:18:03 and we are not talking about me or you, we are talking about that guy who bought his first-ever-linux-device and now wants to do something with it Jul 07 07:18:30 how does that guy end up at pb.com? ITT? Jul 07 07:18:36 users aren't stupid : maemo.org == department store. websites == market stalls Jul 07 07:18:47 "hmm, lets see, a .deb-package (these are the ones that install easily) which promises me a 100% boost (downloadable from hackers.com), lets try that one" Jul 07 07:18:53 some market stalls are superb, family run businesses Jul 07 07:19:00 others are run by "the family" Jul 07 07:19:05 :D Jul 07 07:19:22 lbt: you speek wisely Jul 07 07:19:24 (OTOH some departments stores aren't too ethical either...) Jul 07 07:19:25 speak Jul 07 07:19:48 I'm going to bed, 'night all Jul 07 07:19:54 'night Jul 07 07:19:56 summatusmentis: its 10 AM :) Jul 07 07:20:02 it's 8am! Jul 07 07:21:35 :) Jul 07 07:22:55 macoute: it's 2 AM Jul 07 07:26:55 is there a wifi scanner for n800, something that can beep as i find a wifi spot as i walk? Jul 07 07:27:48 prez00: that would be a battery killer, id suppose Jul 07 07:28:21 but you should get a prog like that quite easily, as all you need to add is a beep to the builtin connection manager Jul 07 07:28:44 macoute, true, but sometimes would be nice.. Jul 07 07:29:40 macoute, once u find aps along your route no need to do it again.. Jul 07 07:34:36 lardman|lunch: umm, your dsp-sbc deb doesn't install, says that it's incompatible application package etc Jul 07 07:40:57 and where the hell is my Documents folder in directory structure? Jul 07 07:42:44 in /home/user/.some_hidden_dir Jul 07 07:42:53 in /home/user/.Documents ? Jul 07 07:45:21 found it, MyDocs/.documents Jul 07 07:45:52 but I just remembered that I can't actually get to root since nokia's flashing apps don't work on intel mac Jul 07 07:46:16 except that GUI thing for 770... and now I'm not in R&D mode :( Jul 07 07:56:13 guys how can i add a cover for an artist/song in my canola? Jul 07 07:56:50 the pic/cover is available is on my mmc's Jul 07 07:57:16 i also would like to know :) Jul 07 08:02:13 wiza: http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access Jul 07 08:03:24 doesnt canola get the pic from the same directory as the songs are in? Jul 07 08:03:33 that is how most music players work Jul 07 08:03:53 so copy the image to the same directory as the music files are in and try Jul 07 08:04:03 itunes/psp can read a mp3 with the cover somehow embeded in them Jul 07 08:04:03 ? Jul 07 08:04:16 if that doesnt work, maybe you need to convert the image somehow Jul 07 08:04:24 Morning, all Jul 07 08:04:30 macoute Jul 07 08:04:33 morning Jul 07 08:04:40 the same directory as the songs can be ok? Jul 07 08:04:43 seems quite wasteful to have it embedded in every mp3 of the album? Jul 07 08:05:42 Kegetys: OTOH it's always available - and how many kb of image does it use compared to the size of an mp3 Jul 07 08:05:44 Italodance: yeah, though you need to have separate directories for every album you have Jul 07 08:06:09 'cos disk is *sooo* expensive nowadays ;) Jul 07 08:06:26 lbt: thanks :D Jul 07 08:06:51 lbt: actually i just thought that the disk is becoming the most advertised part of a computer (and the single most expensive part too) as the flash disks get more popular Jul 07 08:06:54 wiza, Nokia's flashers works fine on Intel Macs. :/ Jul 07 08:06:57 lbt: I guess you can sell me a cheap >8GB miniSD memory card then ;) Jul 07 08:07:04 on a eeepc you really do value hard drive :) Jul 07 08:07:31 GAN800: umm, how? :) Jul 07 08:07:37 Kegetys: as I said "how many kb of image does it use compared to the size of an mp3" Jul 07 08:07:59 run it? :\ Jul 07 08:08:24 lbt: well that would depend on the size and quality of course... but anyway it seems like a rather inefficient and ugly solution, I'd rather embed it on the album playlist maybe Jul 07 08:08:47 Safari sometimes chokes on the caching system, try downloading with Firefox. Jul 07 08:08:51 and then I copy one mp3 from that album to my player - no picture :( Jul 07 08:08:59 so that won't work... next! Jul 07 08:08:59 not that I really care about covers personally Jul 07 08:09:20 it's actually a fairly hard problem to solve generically Jul 07 08:09:24 Italodance: but actually, a google for cover image canola would turn up this one http://openbossa.indt.org/canola/news.html Jul 07 08:09:36 any specific instance can undoubtedly be optimised for Jul 07 08:09:49 ...and that would have told you that "Now you don't need to use another application for managing cover arts and video thumbnails. The standalone 3rd party Canola Tuning application has been turned into a plugin that integrate seamlessly into Canola and give you more control over your cover arts, video thumbnails by allowing you to update and delete unused cover arts as well as select your cover art sources." Jul 07 08:09:55 but by denormalising into every mp3 you gain a lot of flexibility Jul 07 08:10:11 Italodance: so basically, install canola2-tuning-plugin Jul 07 08:11:01 macoute: I was talking about flash disks over the w'end. Did you know they can use more power than normal disks... Jul 07 08:11:24 lbt: i blogged about that one a week ago or so, so yes, i did know :) Jul 07 08:11:30 :D Jul 07 08:11:38 lbt: the article actually was kinda interesting Jul 07 08:11:47 the original article in toms hardware, not mine :D Jul 07 08:11:47 Besides, wiza, you don't need R&D for root. . . . Jul 07 08:11:50 ~easyroot Jul 07 08:11:51 rumour has it, easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com Jul 07 08:12:00 I know, just installed it Jul 07 08:12:01 apparently it's because the SSDs especially read in parallel and the current draw characteristics are worse for the battery Jul 07 08:12:28 GeneralAntilles: shouldn't infobot point to http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access Jul 07 08:12:36 lbt: and because SSD:s do not basically have any power optimization, so there is only 2 states, idle and running Jul 07 08:12:40 lbt, if you want to change him. Jul 07 08:12:46 how :) Jul 07 08:12:54 i believe you can just comment out the line that checks for R&D mode in the script to gain root Jul 07 08:12:55 ~change infobot Jul 07 08:12:58 that doesn't look right Jul 07 08:13:13 ~rootaccess is http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access Jul 07 08:13:14 GeneralAntilles: okay Jul 07 08:13:27 OK - ta... Jul 07 08:15:43 the guy I was with is one of the kernel devs and he's working on using various types of overlayfs and things with a homebrew SSD - v. interesting. Jul 07 08:21:43 macoute: i wouldn't trust anyone to notice a maemo.org hack Jul 07 08:22:08 macoute: and nokia doesn't want you to assert that maemo.org is their job Jul 07 08:24:19 wiza: there are dozens of ways to get root w/o r&d, i use capture-root :) Jul 07 08:24:50 I'm more partial to becomeroot Jul 07 08:25:01 the application manager is very clear that anything not coming for a very specific source isn't certified by Nokia and pretty much voids just about everything. Jul 07 08:25:13 gomiam: i'm partial to capture-root because i wrote it :) Jul 07 08:25:20 I prefer sudoMakeMeRootNOW Jul 07 08:25:20 We need somebody to maintain a root package in Extras. . . . Jul 07 08:25:22 timelyx: LOL Jul 07 08:25:33 i have my dog click ok on those warnings :) Jul 07 08:25:43 timelyx: what's that about warranty being voided by installing extra software? Jul 07 08:25:43 easyroot is somewhat better than becomeroot because it's at least easy to find Jul 07 08:25:55 gomiam: have you read the dialog? Jul 07 08:26:12 yeah, kind of. Of course, those threats don't work here in Spain, so... Jul 07 08:26:15 yeah, so much for my first born, hope he's happy at nokia Jul 07 08:26:30 gomiam: oh really? Jul 07 08:26:40 anybody know how to stream video from pc to n800 ? I use gst-launch in the send side, mplayer in the receive side ~but when caching reach 18.67%,it stop and show no images~~ So another methods can realize this function? Are there other ways to achieve this ? Jul 07 08:26:57 yup. Warranty voiding because you installed some software or other is a null clause here, AFAIK. Jul 07 08:27:25 nice, i have a keyboard tray under my desk Jul 07 08:27:26 jackg, http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/ Jul 07 08:27:29 it's being held up by *one* screw Jul 07 08:27:52 don't lean on it Jul 07 08:27:53 http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hildon-application-manager-l10n-public-5.0+r6160/po/en_GB.po#421 Jul 07 08:27:58 Proteous: no kidding Jul 07 08:28:16 http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hildon-application-manager-l10n-public-5.0+r6160/po/en_GB.po#429 Jul 07 08:28:25 the dialog is fairly explicit Jul 07 08:28:32 NSFW Jul 07 08:28:45 and btw, if a judge actually makes Nokia liable for you installing a root kit via a .deb Jul 07 08:28:50 you have serious problems w/ your legal system Jul 07 08:28:54 worse than .us. :) Jul 07 08:29:29 GeneralAntilles: http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/mediautils/ :) Jul 07 08:29:32 .us, pfff, WE ARE .com .net .org!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA Jul 07 08:29:34 *cough* Jul 07 08:29:50 hey, i have a .us and a .eu :) Jul 07 08:30:08 * timelyx wonders what www-src is Jul 07 08:30:11 We still need a maemo.org announcement of mxr. Jul 07 08:30:21 timelyx, I was thinking the same thing. . . . Jul 07 08:30:24 * GeneralAntilles pokes Jaffa. Jul 07 08:30:37 yeah, it's on my todo list for today Jul 07 08:31:18 Could someone help me with connecivity related problem? I have tried to disconnect current connection with multiple ways but I can't get it working. Basically I want to close current connection and open a new one (ad-hoc). How I can do same thing with C or python that happens when disconnect is clicked in the connectivity UI?? Jul 07 08:31:40 zapppp: mxr.maemo.org/diablo Jul 07 08:31:47 it's your reference to just about everything :) Jul 07 08:32:08 http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/icd2-osso-ic-dev-2.0/include/ Jul 07 08:32:14 seems to be the interfaces you have available Jul 07 08:32:23 ooh, interesting Jul 07 08:32:33 * timelyx didn't realize mxr.maemo.org/diablo had kernel sources Jul 07 08:32:42 no wonder it's bigger than my internal diablo reference :o Jul 07 08:33:22 (no, i don't hand write / review each page from mxr.maemo.org ;-) ) Jul 07 08:33:45 That would make you a crazy person. Jul 07 08:34:25 some people probably assume that i know everything about a web site i "maintain", i just want people to understand that it's a tool, i only know how to use it, not what it actually contains :) Jul 07 08:34:34 the search i used fwiw was http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/find?string=icd.*h$ Jul 07 08:34:53 i happened to know that connectivity's daemon is called icd (internet connectivity daemon) Jul 07 08:41:25 what's best tutorial for calendar sync between n800 google calendar? Jul 07 08:42:15 i am now all linux.. phone, mot a1200, n800, thinkpad x60 ubuntu :-) Jul 07 08:42:37 oops tp x61 Jul 07 08:52:48 while doing this in _86 "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-runtime" giving error message ": Sub-process /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)" Jul 07 08:52:53 How to resolve ? Jul 07 08:55:53 atul: maybe fakeroot apt-get update Jul 07 08:56:22 lbt: ok I will try thanks Jul 07 09:00:04 lbt: it not working still causing error Jul 07 09:01:21 does update work OK? Jul 07 09:08:52 lbt: yes Jul 07 09:09:43 when you run the "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-runtime" command - is that the only output? Jul 07 09:10:01 pastebin.com if there is more Jul 07 09:12:02 lbt: ok I know I will send u ther whole result Jul 07 09:12:09 quim talking onstage right now and i'm na nerd Jul 07 09:12:33 a nerd would be streaming it... :) Jul 07 09:13:04 Oh, streaming, that would be way cool Jul 07 09:13:14 hope it's being recorded somewhere Jul 07 09:13:48 lbt: This is the output http://pastebin.ca/1064486 Jul 07 09:15:49 it looks like the scratchbox isn't properly installed : /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory Jul 07 09:16:00 and gconftool-2: command not found Jul 07 09:16:38 lbt: so what to next Jul 07 09:16:39 no Jul 07 09:16:47 dpkg-preconfigure just isn't part of maeom Jul 07 09:16:49 shall I Uninstall and do it form scratch one more time Jul 07 09:16:51 that's a "feature" Jul 07 09:17:10 install debconf Jul 07 09:17:25 personally, i'd try configuring certs/osso-clock/... and see what happens Jul 07 09:17:53 lbt: For installing anything it is giving me same error. Jul 07 09:17:55 timelyx: do you know about this - I'm working it through (though atul - you did a dist-upgrade this time - be consistent please :) Jul 07 09:18:15 nope :) Jul 07 09:18:20 my scratchbox was stolen :) Jul 07 09:18:40 I nearly rm -rf'ed mine - oops Jul 07 09:18:46 lbt: i'd take a working box and ask it where gconftool-2 lives Jul 07 09:19:06 (i.e. which package owns it) and then i'd ask atul's box what's the status of that package Jul 07 09:19:06 gconf2 Jul 07 09:19:19 atul: dpkg -l gconf2 Jul 07 09:20:20 Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold| Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed Jul 07 09:20:20 |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad Jul 07 09:20:30 timelyx: FWIW, on Diablo, debconf ==1.4.70.osso2 Jul 07 09:21:03 lbt: http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/find?string=debconf.*debian/control Jul 07 09:21:07 i can see that :) Jul 07 09:21:32 (i don't have a binary xref) Jul 07 09:22:47 General Antilles, I want to achieve functional about capturing the picture from webcam in the pc side and transmit this data to the n800, and i do not know whether mediaserv and table-encode can realize the function, So how to realize this:)thanks again Jul 07 09:22:51 so atul try : apt-get install gconf2 debconf Jul 07 09:23:03 lbt: ok Jul 07 09:23:32 lbt: same error it giving to me. Jul 07 09:23:46 try : apt-get install debconf Jul 07 09:23:55 atul: what "same error"? Jul 07 09:24:30 lbt:, timelyx This is the error message http://pastebin.ca/1064486 Jul 07 09:24:50 um. no no no no no Jul 07 09:24:57 fakeroot apt-get install gconf2 Jul 07 09:25:03 doh! Jul 07 09:25:38 timelyx: ok Jul 07 09:25:58 timelyx: same error. Jul 07 09:26:33 atul: the last line of the huge error may be the same but that's not the important part... Jul 07 09:26:54 the bits saying "/usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory" etc are important Jul 07 09:27:07 atul: it can't possibly be the same error Jul 07 09:27:19 pastebin *just* my command + output Jul 07 09:27:40 lbt: really, trust me, dpkg-preconfigure is not important Jul 07 09:27:52 timelyx: I means it is giving error like not configuring dpkg Jul 07 09:27:54 like that Jul 07 09:28:00 sure - just an example of an error message ... Jul 07 09:28:14 atul: um. pastebin Jul 07 09:28:32 pretend you are incapable of speaking English... all you're allowed to do is follow instructions and pastebin output Jul 07 09:28:45 no thinking allowed :) Jul 07 09:30:11 timelyx: http://pastebin.ca/1064499 this is error output Jul 07 09:30:46 um Jul 07 09:31:00 oh fsck Jul 07 09:31:02 * timelyx curses Jul 07 09:31:05 apt sucks Jul 07 09:31:08 Jul 07 09:31:14 fakeroot apt-get -f install Jul 07 09:31:48 whose brilliant idea was it to have a tool which actively ignores its arguments? Jul 07 09:32:21 clearly the developer knew he'd know better than you... Jul 07 09:32:27 clearly Jul 07 09:34:07 ' Jul 07 09:34:11 GeneralAntilles: Both mud & mediautils use PHP to generate the simple template for the pages. But ferenc turned off PHP on *.garage.maemo.org, so www-src contains the PHP and a shell script which generates the static HTML and deposits it in www Jul 07 09:34:31 timelyx: , lbt:, am facing this problem in 86 target in ARMEL it is working fine Jul 07 09:34:47 atul: yeah, i don't really care about that :) Jul 07 09:35:03 anyway, does pastebin the output from fakeroot apt-get -f install Jul 07 09:36:00 http://www.linux.com/articles/48910 Jul 07 09:36:06 "What to do when apt-get fails" Jul 07 09:36:10 timelyx: lbt: This is fakeroot apt-get install output http://pastebin.ca/1064500 Jul 07 09:37:26 timelyx: I'd try downloading the gconf2.deb and dpkg -i... Jul 07 09:37:37 lbt: "yuck" Jul 07 09:38:10 well, it'll keep the package db clean and then apt should be able to -f Jul 07 09:38:19 atul: apt-get -f remove certs osso-clock libosso-certman1 libosso-certman-dev multimediad osso-addressbook osso-applet-certman maemo-explicit Jul 07 09:38:22 w/ fakeroot Jul 07 09:38:46 timelyx: ok Jul 07 09:40:33 if that doesn't work, you can try: fakeroot dpkg -r certs osso-clock libosso-certman1 libosso-certman-dev multimediad osso-addressbook osso-applet-certman maemo-explicit Jul 07 09:41:00 (or replace -r w/ --purge) Jul 07 09:42:58 timelyx: ya some package it wont remove this is output http://pastebin.ca/1064505 Jul 07 09:44:02 you know where gconf-schemas lives don't you.... Jul 07 09:44:17 lardman|lunch: so Jul 07 09:44:21 progress :) Jul 07 09:44:42 fakeroot dpkg --purge osso-addressbook osso-clock Jul 07 09:45:06 timelyx: ok Jul 07 09:46:31 timelyx: this time http://pastebin.ca/1064506 Jul 07 09:47:37 brother Jul 07 09:47:42 dpkg sucks :) Jul 07 09:47:48 hello Jul 07 09:48:02 http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-gets-official/ Jul 07 09:48:02 i think at this point i'd do something like: Jul 07 09:48:08 dpkg -L osso-clock Jul 07 09:48:16 is that information accurate? Jul 07 09:48:27 fakeroot rm /var/lib/dpkg/*/*osso-clock* Jul 07 09:48:33 that n810 should play mp4? Jul 07 09:48:38 eek - really Jul 07 09:48:51 rather than just downloading the deb and dpkg -i ? Jul 07 09:49:25 long lunch that one :) Jul 07 09:49:31 lbt: i consider the risk in getting an incompatible deb worse than the risk in destroying a registration for one Jul 07 09:49:33 rm_you: all working Jul 07 09:49:36 drako, yeah, up to 400x240 or so Jul 07 09:49:40 drako, yea mplayer can play all that Jul 07 09:49:42 however, atul is free to follow your advice Jul 07 09:49:44 i'm off to work Jul 07 09:50:05 what about the media player that comes with him? Jul 07 09:50:10 lardman: you figure out what was slowing it down? Jul 07 09:50:20 drako: that doesnt play mp4 iirc Jul 07 09:50:22 drako: http://europe.nokia.com/A4568593 Jul 07 09:50:31 that's the official page Jul 07 09:50:38 anything that is wrong there is nokia's fault Jul 07 09:50:46 rm_you: no, but probably something to do with the ARM being run that little bit slower Jul 07 09:50:57 rm_you: as a dsp task was obviously running Jul 07 09:51:13 rm_you: moved the input and output buffers to faster local SRAM and it sorted it out Jul 07 09:51:52 i have a mp4 video and isn't playing it Jul 07 09:52:12 it says codec not supported Jul 07 09:52:44 try to download it from here http://www.bigbuckbunny.org/index.php/download/ Jul 07 09:52:50 is mp4 a codec or a container? Jul 07 09:52:54 atul: try : fakeroot -f install gconf2 Jul 07 09:52:58 then pastebin Jul 07 09:52:58 container Jul 07 09:53:10 drako, it might be the ac3 audio Jul 07 09:53:16 rm_you, yes Jul 07 09:53:28 ooohhhhh Jul 07 09:53:29 k Jul 07 09:53:39 lbt: ok Jul 07 09:53:47 :D Jul 07 09:54:00 drako: or the size of the video. Jul 07 09:54:15 800x480 Jul 07 09:54:18 to much? Jul 07 09:54:22 does mediaplayer support h264? cause i know that can be in an mp4 Jul 07 09:54:39 drako, yeah, too big. I'll try the ipod version. the psp version might work too Jul 07 09:54:40 lbt, it install it says already new version is install Jul 07 09:54:41 i'll try the h264 Jul 07 09:54:50 pastebin Jul 07 09:55:12 drako, anything bigger than 640x480 probably won't play well Jul 07 09:55:35 i think i tested h264 in mplayer and even mplayer couldnt play h264 very well... it is VERY processor intensive to decode Jul 07 09:55:48 you'd be best off with avi/xvid anyway Jul 07 09:56:03 mp4 w/ mp3 audio would be fine Jul 07 09:56:12 that's pretty close to xvid in terms of the video codec Jul 07 09:56:17 IIRC Jul 07 09:56:17 you can get about 1200 video bitrate Jul 07 09:56:28 just to know wich media es best for it Jul 07 09:56:30 actual mp4, like mpeg4 Jul 07 09:56:33 which is totally overkill for everyone except rm_you :) Jul 07 09:56:37 lol Jul 07 09:56:42 it looks beautiful Jul 07 09:56:47 i should upload a sample AMV Jul 07 09:56:49 hehe Jul 07 09:56:58 rm_you, can you taste the colors? :P Jul 07 09:56:59 so people can see what a GOOD encode looks like Jul 07 09:57:03 lol Jul 07 09:57:10 * rm_you uploads Koop Jul 07 09:57:15 * rm_you uploads Koop's Skittles AMV Jul 07 10:04:58 there we go: http://www.ageofikon.info/N10-Koop-Skittles.avi Jul 07 10:05:45 what we need is an IVA2.... Jul 07 10:06:28 anyway, that will play fine even with a2dp Jul 07 10:06:33 or those ARM ASM decoding libs Jul 07 10:06:35 s/IVA2/working IVA2 ;) Jul 07 10:07:02 congrats lardman ! Jul 07 10:08:02 thanks pupnik Jul 07 10:08:20 yeah, very impressive work lardman Jul 07 10:08:32 has anyone tried it yet? Jul 07 10:08:34 other than me Jul 07 10:08:42 i have Jul 07 10:08:45 works pretty well Jul 07 10:09:01 for some reason it doesn't behave well when I use mplayer as a canola backend Jul 07 10:09:12 it's probably some option that canola feeds mplayer Jul 07 10:09:36 there we go: http://www.ageofikon.info/N10-Haruhi.avi too Jul 07 10:09:37 hmm Jul 07 10:09:45 i am about to do some comparisons, lardman Jul 07 10:09:48 might also be an issue with the ARM being underclocked though Jul 07 10:09:49 lbt: Update is working fine but upgrade is not it is giving this error log http://pastebin.ca/1064516 Jul 07 10:09:53 rm_you: cool Jul 07 10:09:57 also, what was the sudden leap you made that got you from 4 seconds of audio to having it working near perfect? Jul 07 10:10:10 rm_you: I was seeing ~20% CPU usage by mplayer when using the DSP Jul 07 10:10:27 same here, at 330Mhz Jul 07 10:10:38 johnx: moved the input & output buffers to faster internal SRAM rather than slow SDRAM Jul 07 10:10:51 and that made all the difference it appears Jul 07 10:10:55 and what's the output of the last command I mentioned? Jul 07 10:10:57 johnx: do you know what it was beforehand? Jul 07 10:11:25 with software a2dp in diablo it's around 10-30% at 400Mhz Jul 07 10:11:33 johnx: yep; there are probably some other bits which could be moved across, the sbc->priv struct is large so I stuck it in (almost unlimited) SDRAM Jul 07 10:11:44 if locked at 400MHz it works pretty well but there are skips Jul 07 10:12:05 did the install script work ok? Jul 07 10:12:12 setting mplayer's cache seems to affect both dsp-sbc and cpu-sbc Jul 07 10:12:18 install script worked great Jul 07 10:12:45 would you be interested in me making a .deb for it? Jul 07 10:12:51 lbt: gconf2 it is giving same error messages that i pastbin Jul 07 10:13:05 if I can figure out why it doesn't behave in canola and fix that I think a lot of people would be interested Jul 07 10:13:07 johnx: cool Jul 07 10:13:43 also, is there a way to switch back and forth between dsp-sbc and cpu-sbc without uninstalling? Jul 07 10:14:45 atul: if you don't paste the errors I can't help. Maybe you should try timelyx's suggestions. Jul 07 10:15:05 johnx: you can probably rename the sbcenc.o file and then it will fall back to sw encoding Jul 07 10:15:16 lbt : ok i will pastbin Jul 07 10:15:18 johnx: I should add some env var logic in there to let people change it Jul 07 10:16:50 lbt: This is gconf2 Error log http://pastebin.ca/1064518 Jul 07 10:17:17 hmm...maybe fakeroot apt-get install gconf2 Jul 07 10:17:34 err...sorry Jul 07 10:17:45 fakeroot apt-get --reinstall install gconf2 Jul 07 10:18:32 so how do i use this Jul 07 10:18:42 do i use a2dp enable still? Jul 07 10:18:46 yeah Jul 07 10:18:53 yes - I asked atul to do fakeroot but he missed that (again) Jul 07 10:18:53 johnx, it is giving this error message http://pastebin.ca/1064518 Jul 07 10:19:15 rm_you: yes Jul 07 10:19:28 lbt i did it using fakeroot Jul 07 10:19:49 atul, sorry, try the second command I posted: fakeroot apt-get --reinstall install gconf2 Jul 07 10:19:50 that's not what the pastebin says... Jul 07 10:19:57 the --reinstall line is the key Jul 07 10:20:04 rm_you: do you have a link to that deb? I'll put in an url to my email to the list Jul 07 10:20:13 though I don't know how you have gconf2 but no gconftool-2 ... Jul 07 10:20:36 johnx prolly does... it's in the first post in his thread Jul 07 10:20:57 johnx: we assumed no gconf2 since no gconftool-2 ... then the install said 'latest verison' ... odd. Jul 07 10:21:16 lbt: i thought we asked for dpkg -l gconf2 Jul 07 10:21:20 got it Jul 07 10:21:29 12:19 timelyx atul: dpkg -l gconf2 Jul 07 10:21:42 we did... but I suspect atul didn't paste all the output... Jul 07 10:21:48 Jul 07 10:21:52 hrm Jul 07 10:21:58 this is definately not working right Jul 07 10:22:01 sec Jul 07 10:22:09 heh, he only pasted the header, not the answer :) Jul 07 10:22:13 rm_you, try it from the CLI first Jul 07 10:22:21 timelyx: food closes in 8 Jul 07 10:22:24 oh fsck Jul 07 10:22:30 sp3000: can you get food for me? Jul 07 10:23:00 timelyx: lbt: This is the output [sbox-CHINOOK_X86: ~] > dpkg -l gconf2 Jul 07 10:23:00 Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold Jul 07 10:23:00 | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed Jul 07 10:23:00 |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)|/ Name Version Description+++-=======ii gconf2 2.16.0-1osso9 GNOME configuration database system. Jul 07 10:23:01 yeah it is exploding... Jul 07 10:23:03 that doesn't sound practical :) Jul 07 10:23:09 video is just frozen Jul 07 10:23:15 sound choppy Jul 07 10:23:17 atul: pastebin Jul 07 10:23:19 only at 35% tho Jul 07 10:23:29 and last time you missed the critical last line... Jul 07 10:23:36 order it Jul 07 10:23:45 vegy pizza or vegitarian Jul 07 10:23:47 rm_you, try with an mp3 Jul 07 10:23:48 i'll be there shortly Jul 07 10:23:59 call me Jul 07 10:24:04 dunno if i have one >_> Jul 07 10:24:06 timelyx: lbt: This is output http://pastebin.ca/1064522 Jul 07 10:24:06 wait Jul 07 10:24:07 yeah i do Jul 07 10:24:24 yes, we know that now :) Jul 07 10:24:38 hrm Jul 07 10:24:42 CPU on performance... Jul 07 10:24:44 now run johnx's command... fakeroot apt-get --reinstall install gconf2 Jul 07 10:24:49 and pastebin the output Jul 07 10:25:01 mplayer is at ~20% Jul 07 10:25:21 playing pretty good.... Jul 07 10:25:26 rm_you, for sbc-dsp it will automatically switch it to 330 so it can turn up the dsp Jul 07 10:25:29 got a couple microskips but it seems alright now Jul 07 10:25:38 hrm Jul 07 10:25:58 I think the skipping might still be a result of the alsa subsystem that Nokia uses... Jul 07 10:26:02 ... ?? dsp/0 process? Jul 07 10:26:06 something is waaay odd with that Jul 07 10:26:28 so how would i get it to go back to software encoding quickly for comparisons Jul 07 10:26:46 rename the dsp task Jul 07 10:26:51 rename the sbcenc.o file? Jul 07 10:26:54 yep Jul 07 10:26:55 from your line way up Jul 07 10:26:58 k Jul 07 10:27:00 where is that? Jul 07 10:27:03 it switches back to sw method whenever the dsp fails Jul 07 10:27:07 /lib/dsp/modules Jul 07 10:27:55 * lcuk yawns and stretches, looks at the time and smiles Jul 07 10:28:01 lbt: timelyx: http://pastebin.ca/1064524 This is gconf output Jul 07 10:31:08 Yay, maemo-community open. Jul 07 10:31:12 ok, it reinstalled gconf (but then failed to find gconftool-2)... hmm now run: fakeroot apt-get -f install Jul 07 10:32:55 lbt: it is failing with this message http://pastebin.ca/1064526 Jul 07 10:40:13 that looks very screwed - I'm going to suggest that you reinstall the _86 scratchbox. Jul 07 10:40:29 k Jul 07 10:40:33 lbt: ok Jul 07 10:45:35 X-Fade: thanks for the front page bump :) Jul 07 10:45:59 lardman Jul 07 10:46:05 rm_you Jul 07 10:46:09 johnx Jul 07 10:46:12 hi guys Jul 07 10:46:24 lardman: Your efforts deserve attention. Although next time, take a few seconds to actually write a few lines about what you did ;) Jul 07 10:46:26 hi Italodance Jul 07 10:46:27 friends ur canola 9 loading is slow too? Jul 07 10:46:36 X-Fade: just posted to the list Jul 07 10:46:52 Italodance, it takes about 30 seconds here Jul 07 10:47:12 johnx me too :( so it's for all Jul 07 10:47:23 it's a big program Jul 07 10:47:37 johnx also some videos get freeze Jul 07 10:47:44 for the play and run Jul 07 10:47:45 X-Fade: I just editted it to say "Diablo only" so it've gone from the front page. Sorry! Jul 07 10:48:03 I really can't type Jul 07 10:48:54 btw friend my problem is solved forever https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1896 :D finally nokia fixed it for me and my country :D Jul 07 10:49:37 Italodance, I'm glad to hear that :D Jul 07 10:50:43 dneary: maemo-community isn't mentioned here http://maemo.org/community/mailing-lists/ Jul 07 10:51:14 lardman: indeed Jul 07 10:56:28 is the verisign certificate self signed for : svn checkout --username me https://garage.maemo.org/svn/liqbase ? Jul 07 10:57:08 lcuk: No, there should be a proper certificate for that? Jul 07 10:57:23 ey, lcuk, did you release a .deb btw? Jul 07 10:57:24 Error validating server certificate for 'https://garage.maemo.org:443': Jul 07 10:57:24 - The certificate is not issued by a trusted authority. Use the Jul 07 10:57:24 fingerprint to validate the certificate manually! Jul 07 10:57:43 * aquatix will download the tarball otherwise Jul 07 10:57:45 no aquatix im trying to get svn working Jul 07 10:58:07 ah, kk :) Jul 07 10:58:10 don't rush Jul 07 10:58:14 ~lart svn Jul 07 10:58:14 * infobot slaps svn upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh Jul 07 10:59:05 lbt, i got git working easier than all this .. Jul 07 10:59:31 is it possible its my 810 that cannot validate the certificate? Jul 07 10:59:32 lcuk: hm, firefox doesn't complain here Jul 07 10:59:39 could be indeed Jul 07 11:04:42 possibly svn doesn't have the root certificate but firefox does Jul 07 11:06:43 not using the global certificate store? Jul 07 11:07:46 all I know is that I always have problems like that with svn Jul 07 11:07:49 Or the intermediate certificate that verisign requires. Jul 07 11:08:03 it doesnt complain if i open in the browser on my device either, hmm Jul 07 11:14:28 one problem with a2dp: I tend to put my n800 someplace while wearing my a2dp headphones and though the music continues I forget where I put my tablet O_o Jul 07 11:15:02 johnx: triangulation, walk in different directions and measure when the music stops ;) Jul 07 11:15:24 it's affected most by solid objects it seems Jul 07 11:16:15 ok, i checked out the bare version. i copied all the source files into that folder, i did svn add, now i am trying to commit. lardman, when you commit which folder are you in and what command line do you run? Jul 07 11:16:55 lcuk: if you just do "svn commit" it commits everything you checked out Jul 07 11:17:05 that has changed of course Jul 07 11:17:49 otherwise you can do "svn commit ./some_dir -m "blah"" Jul 07 11:18:10 ahhhh, so i dont mention where i want to commit it to Jul 07 11:18:15 lcuk: of course... git is the solution to svn :) Jul 07 11:18:19 no, it knows that already Jul 07 11:18:27 i hope so, lemme see Jul 07 11:18:42 david, agree entirely, even i got it to work :D Jul 07 11:19:46 did this just ask for *my* root password, or for garages?: Jul 07 11:19:54 Nokia-N810-50-2:/media/mmc1/liqbase# svn commit -m "initial upload" Jul 07 11:19:54 Authentication realm: Subversion User Authentication Jul 07 11:19:54 Password for 'root': Jul 07 11:20:44 it shouldn't need either Jul 07 11:20:59 unless your files are owned by root perhaps Jul 07 11:20:59 won't it want his garage user's password? Jul 07 11:21:09 its asking that now john Jul 07 11:21:14 johnx: not after the first checkout Jul 07 11:21:19 it asked for root, then my username then my userpass Jul 07 11:21:23 ah ok Jul 07 11:21:27 very strange Jul 07 11:21:34 * lcuk doesnt know his pass yet Jul 07 11:22:20 * lcuk cries at his total ineptitude Jul 07 11:22:32 we all join him ;p Jul 07 11:23:03 * keesj first looks up what ineptitude is Jul 07 11:23:08 phhht:P all i ever wanted to do was code and play Jul 07 11:24:19 omg its "adding ..." Jul 07 11:24:29 lcuk, you need to hire an intern or something Jul 07 11:24:47 i agree Jul 07 11:25:24 i dont think my current boss would though Jul 07 11:25:52 Transmitting file data ................................................ Jul 07 11:25:52 Committed revision 1. Jul 07 11:26:08 nice Jul 07 11:26:37 * lcuk breathes once again Jul 07 11:26:40 lcuk: from now on it's nice and easy Jul 07 11:27:15 i hope so, im gonna add that to my nightly script Jul 07 11:27:22 johnx: what a2dp headset do you have btw? Jul 07 11:27:31 motorola HT820 Jul 07 11:27:50 kinda old now, I think it's essentially the 2nd generation of bt headphones Jul 07 11:28:00 and doesn't exactly work great with glasses :/ Jul 07 11:28:24 ah :) Jul 07 11:28:28 good sound though? Jul 07 11:28:37 yeah, as good as a2dp can do Jul 07 11:28:44 it even has a little jack so I can use it wired Jul 07 11:28:51 sounds noticeably better wired Jul 07 11:28:57 hm Jul 07 11:29:01 * aquatix sticks with wired then Jul 07 11:29:20 it is nice in some situations where wires just get in the way Jul 07 11:29:26 btw, when using svn on my n810, i always get some error message about a lock file or something failing Jul 07 11:29:31 johnx: true Jul 07 11:29:37 but I like my $8 toshiba wrap arounds better for comfort... Jul 07 11:29:47 * aquatix loves his sennheiser px200 Jul 07 11:30:20 yeah, if you're a real audiophile a2dp isn't really an option I would assume Jul 07 11:31:06 well, i'm not a real audiophile [not having silver speaker cables and such], but i like good sound Jul 07 11:31:29 a2dp doesn't have a lot of bandwidth i think Jul 07 11:32:06 and it's limited because the encoding/decoding has to happen in realtime on embedded devices so it's optmized for simplicity not sound quality Jul 07 11:32:30 there are headphones that accept mp3s directly, which would be the way to go, but I don't even know if desktop linux supports that Jul 07 11:33:38 hm, that sounds better indeed Jul 07 11:34:23 of course, then you're just a short distance away from just getting a pair of headphones with integrated mp3 player... Jul 07 11:34:46 so now that i have added the files, if i build and reupload it wont know that there are new files (like the *.o etc) Jul 07 11:35:46 johnx: myeah, i prefer general use headphones Jul 07 11:35:50 and i have ogg too Jul 07 11:35:52 and movies :) Jul 07 11:38:23 where can i find atabake at my n800 dir? Jul 07 11:39:22 /home/user/.atabake Jul 07 11:40:01 johnx i want without x-term want to find it by emelfm2 Jul 07 11:40:14 it's still in the same place Jul 07 11:40:20 ok tnx Jul 07 11:47:05 johnx> can it louder? http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Boost_Canola_Volume Jul 07 11:48:21 I don't know. I have loud headphones. :) Jul 07 11:50:38 I agree with it sounding strange Jul 07 11:50:58 yeah, it seems to slow down sometimes right before skipping Jul 07 11:51:03 I was wondering if that was my encoder or the codec itself, sounds the same as the old ARM encoder did though Jul 07 11:51:12 but cpu-sbc has the same problem from time to time Jul 07 11:51:38 now the weird thing is I don't see this happening on my zaurus Jul 07 11:51:46 the skipping? Jul 07 11:51:52 lardman, is it possible to do an audio diff (even using an FFT to visualise and see where yours differs from the other algorithm? Jul 07 11:51:59 try bumping the governor to performance Jul 07 11:52:02 or the weird slowdown / deeper sound Jul 07 11:52:09 lardman, I already did Jul 07 11:52:10 lcuk: probably yes Jul 07 11:52:20 it won't matter for sbc-dsp anyways Jul 07 11:52:26 lcuk: ah, mine doesn't differ, it produces the same output as the ARM encoder Jul 07 11:52:47 johnx: I wonder if that's just part of the codec Jul 07 11:53:06 johnx: would be interesting to play with the bit pool & other settings and see what sounds best Jul 07 11:53:10 well, like I said, it doesn't happen on the zaurus...which should be slower Jul 07 11:53:34 what version of Bluez? Jul 07 11:53:47 well finally Boost Canola Volume rule can do it louder? Jul 07 11:53:58 johnx, is it possible other apps are taking cpu time away - ive noticed it with various things and know liqbase can judder occasionally Jul 07 11:54:22 lcuk, I've sat there with htop open Jul 07 11:54:48 it honestly seems like somehow buffer and period size that mplayer is getting is the same on zaurus and desktop and *different* on the tablet Jul 07 11:55:14 johnx, ive tried that also, theres some sort of heartbeat within the nokia which causes a short cpu spike every ~ 1/3 second it never registers as a high task on top but i know its there Jul 07 11:55:29 http://nit.psykosis.net/Milkytracker-0.90.80-1_all.deb HUH! Jul 07 11:55:32 lcuk, but if it has enough buffer it shouldn't be affected Jul 07 11:55:40 johnx: exactly Jul 07 11:55:43 agreed actually Jul 07 11:56:00 johnx: you using the same version of Bluz on the Zaurus? Jul 07 11:56:03 and I can push my zaurus to swapping without a2dp being affected because of that buffer Jul 07 11:56:07 and which Zaurus model? Jul 07 11:56:18 C1000 pxa270 Jul 07 11:56:26 Angstrom? Jul 07 11:56:31 and debian Jul 07 11:56:33 both Jul 07 11:56:46 I'll build an image for my c750 and do some comparison testing Jul 07 11:57:03 let me test right now and see how it behaves in angstrom Jul 07 11:57:45 lcuk: what have you done?! Garage is soooo slooow Jul 07 11:57:48 ;) Jul 07 11:58:09 oh crap, i told you this would happen Jul 07 11:58:29 * lcuk reboots the internet Jul 07 11:58:46 sorry folks, save your work for a minute Jul 07 11:59:06 lol Jul 07 11:59:29 pupnik :) rev 1 of liqbase is parked in the garage Jul 07 12:00:59 do i stop and rest now, or does it all speed up even more? Jul 07 12:01:14 * lardman wonders where the bitpool, freq, subbands, etc are set in Bluez and whether they have those values for any particular reason Jul 07 12:01:29 * lardman will do some grepping when he heads home for lunch Jul 07 12:01:50 lcuk, define all Jul 07 12:02:27 hey crap, the internet is broken Jul 07 12:02:54 johnx: I'll be back on in ~10min, let me know then will you Jul 07 12:02:59 my internet works fine! too bad it's so small... Jul 07 12:03:01 moar code, moar modules, moar support Jul 07 12:03:03 k, I'll do some testing Jul 07 12:03:47 morning crashanddie by the way, i see you have reregistered :) Jul 07 12:03:57 yeah, I did Jul 07 12:04:12 lcuk: next revision is only diffs, so it should commit faster Jul 07 12:04:27 * aquatix quite likes svn Jul 07 12:04:36 yer aquatix ive just done a quick revision already to see Jul 07 12:04:39 lcuk, you using git to commit to svn ? Jul 07 12:05:35 no, i have used svn, but git was working first and was simpler to setup local branches and manage between them and seemed more ummm logical Jul 07 12:05:47 but that might just have been first shop syndrome Jul 07 12:06:01 well Jul 07 12:06:10 I have spent hours understanding how svn worked, first time I used it Jul 07 12:06:18 trying to setup repos, and stuff Jul 07 12:06:19 * robtaylor uses git-svn for all his svn trees Jul 07 12:06:25 with git... git init Jul 07 12:06:26 done Jul 07 12:06:56 its right, its on now, ill cross whichever bridges are required when i come to them Jul 07 12:07:14 now, next step: packaging.. Jul 07 12:07:23 well, after work that is Jul 07 12:07:42 garage still shows 0 svn updates/adds Jul 07 12:08:13 https://garage.maemo.org/svn/liqbase/ Jul 07 12:08:21 it shouldnt Jul 07 12:08:34 oh, I was on the main garage liqbase page Jul 07 12:08:34 :o Jul 07 12:08:52 oh crap! ive put pybook in there :S i best make sure its attributed and im ok to do it Jul 07 12:14:45 is a public posting to a forum basically covered by public domain ? Jul 07 12:15:25 you mean if you post to a forum are your words automatically considered "public domain"? Jul 07 12:15:52 in the US you have an automatic copyright on anything you write, but that wasn't always the case Jul 07 12:16:23 johnx, no - a small python test frontend to liqbase was posted and i accidentally included it in the first svn update Jul 07 12:16:36 re Jul 07 12:16:40 ive mailed the guy and am putting attributation headers on it Jul 07 12:16:55 its not mine and its his decision what to do with it Jul 07 12:17:11 but i dont think svn will allow me to vape from all revisions Jul 07 12:17:12 lcuk2, yeah, it's under his copyright, but if it's a derivative of your GPLed code it's automatically GPLed Jul 07 12:17:34 no johnx, all it does is calls liqbase with params Jul 07 12:17:37 lcuk2: what code is this? Jul 07 12:17:39 * johnx is not a lawyer of course... Jul 07 12:18:05 someone wrote a python file selector for liqbase :) Jul 07 12:18:06 * lardman|home crosses fingers that BT dongle won't cause kernel panic Jul 07 12:18:22 lcuk2: ah, ok Jul 07 12:18:28 lcuk2, alright, not derivative, but I highly doubt it will become an issue Jul 07 12:18:53 no i dont either, am just making sure Jul 07 12:19:02 ive mailed him anyway :) Jul 07 12:19:20 that's a polite thing to do in any case Jul 07 12:19:30 it may be better anyway if it does stay, i have been wondering how to do file selectors ;) Jul 07 12:19:35 hey lcuk2 congratulations for release the source! Jul 07 12:19:44 jott :) Jul 07 12:19:47 hi Jul 07 12:20:00 robtaylor: are you online? Jul 07 12:20:38 right, ive got to get to a client site in a bit, so ill vanish Jul 07 12:20:56 lardman|home, testing under debian/n800 and then angstrom/c1000 Jul 07 12:21:06 but if anyone can think of a way for me to build packages on the device (and maybe perhaps possibly talk me through later) it would be good :D Jul 07 12:21:35 johnx: I might have missed your reply, what version of bluez-utils does Angstrom/Debian use atm? Jul 07 12:21:43 lcuk2, what are you using for a build system now? makefiles? autoconf? plain gcc? Jul 07 12:21:51 debian is on latest Jul 07 12:22:07 angstrom 2007 is on 3.23 I believe Jul 07 12:22:09 checks Jul 07 12:22:12 johnx, makefile Jul 07 12:22:21 i cant get autoconf on device Jul 07 12:25:52 lcuk2: you could add the diablo/sdk or chinook/sdk repository and install "dpkg-dev" Jul 07 12:26:20 definitely look at how much apt-get wants to install before you let it install though Jul 07 12:26:37 holy moly! thats an extra 28mb Jul 07 12:26:58 time to boot from SD or get into scratchbox Jul 07 12:28:01 if a package was created elsewhere is there a short refresh contents method which i could just rebuild existing package with? Jul 07 12:28:21 ie do the heavy config in scratchbox, then just dailies can be done on device Jul 07 12:28:28 lcuk2: you could always build a package manually.. Jul 07 12:28:30 but i really must go, ill read back later Jul 07 12:28:37 i might have to jott Jul 07 12:28:39 lcuk2: with a bit of time you could write a script to package it like the makeipkg scripts of old Jul 07 12:28:39 but it can get messy quite fast Jul 07 12:29:04 which would pretty much exclude it from extras :/ Jul 07 12:29:08 khertan will know about this lot.. Jul 07 12:29:39 he has a packager for the device Jul 07 12:31:13 thanks guys anyway - back later Jul 07 12:36:19 hmm, how do you BT pair with Ubuntu? Jul 07 12:37:03 silly question Jul 07 12:42:01 hmm, perhaps not so silly Jul 07 12:42:13 any thoughts as to how to pair a bt headset with ubuntu? Jul 07 12:42:27 I can tell you in a sec... Jul 07 12:43:23 lardman|home: erm, start the bluetooth-applet Jul 07 12:43:26 rightclick Jul 07 12:43:32 devices [or settings or whatev] Jul 07 12:43:34 discover? Jul 07 12:43:40 hmm, yeah, I tried that, no luck Jul 07 12:43:49 I just tried "hcitool scan" and no reply either Jul 07 12:44:10 is it discoverable? Jul 07 12:44:26 yep, set on pair mode Jul 07 12:44:58 weird Jul 07 12:45:14 hmm, I'm wondering if there's something up with the Ubuntu BT connection Jul 07 12:45:20 I'll get my N810 and see if it can see that Jul 07 12:47:48 hello Jul 07 12:48:15 hmm, N810 can't see PC, PC can't see anything Jul 07 12:48:22 the default jabber client for maemo has a very strange handling with the "buddy list", not equal to all the other jabber clients i know Jul 07 12:48:25 lardman|home, worked first try here. I just put headphones in pairing mode, made a .asoundrc and did mplayer -ao alsa:device=bluetooth Jul 07 12:48:43 johnx: I used your script on Ubuntu Jul 07 12:48:53 heh Jul 07 12:48:57 interesting idea Jul 07 12:49:31 aaah...you might not want to Jul 07 12:49:46 it mucks with the bluetooth settings in /etc/bluetooth Jul 07 12:49:50 it does make backups though Jul 07 12:50:13 does it restore the backups if I uninstall it? Jul 07 12:50:24 I ... think so Jul 07 12:50:33 it's been a long time since I wrote it Jul 07 12:50:41 :) Jul 07 12:51:36 angstrom-distribution.org seems to be down so I can't get the packages I need for my zaurus... Jul 07 12:51:53 still, I'll test on Debian/N800 at least Jul 07 12:55:14 ok, uninstalled & moved original file back, now I can see things at least ;) Jul 07 12:56:22 ah, BTW, your sbc-dsp code doesn't seem to work on my desktop either. I guess we're even :D Jul 07 12:56:39 lol Jul 07 12:56:46 you need a dsp emulator ;) Jul 07 12:57:25 right, so it's seen and bound now, but I've still not had to put in the passcode Jul 07 12:57:35 hmm Jul 07 12:57:48 well, just try mplayer and see what happens Jul 07 12:58:10 nothing, the headset is still in pairing mode too Jul 07 12:58:27 ok, then it's not paired yet Jul 07 12:58:58 well it's "Bonded" Jul 07 12:59:07 not sure how to get it to ask for a code Jul 07 12:59:44 I just put mine in pairing mode and played to it with mplayer Jul 07 12:59:56 a little popup appeared asking for a code Jul 07 13:01:41 hmm, no such luck here Jul 07 13:02:07 has anyone ever implemented other dbus service's interface, like here: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/connectivity/osso-obexsrv/trunk/README Jul 07 13:02:51 lardman|home, hcitool cc Jul 07 13:03:02 Interesting. Why maemo.org/downloads instead of downloads.maemo.org, X-Fade? Jul 07 13:04:14 just hangs Jul 07 13:04:35 when it popped up the code thing it did it behind a window for me Jul 07 13:05:32 no, I've checked that Jul 07 13:05:42 the hcitool cc times out Jul 07 13:06:02 maybe try restarting your bluetooth system Jul 07 13:06:13 bt applet preferences shows the headset is Bonded and connected, I can't even delete it Jul 07 13:06:16 sudo /etc/init.d/bluetooth restart Jul 07 13:06:24 I've restarted already a few times Jul 07 13:06:29 hmm Jul 07 13:07:06 which way does the trust go, does the headset remember the computer's MAC? Jul 07 13:07:20 yes Jul 07 13:07:24 the trust goes both ways Jul 07 13:07:54 between a phone and computer instead of a 0000 keycode you'd pick a unique keycode on both Jul 07 13:08:11 and both would remember that somewhere? Jul 07 13:08:13 where? Jul 07 13:08:37 I don't really know Jul 07 13:08:38 hang on Jul 07 13:09:41 my first guess is /var/lib/bluetooth// Jul 07 13:10:29 that only has my PC's BT dongle MAC Jul 07 13:10:40 I might try setting a default pin in hcid.conf Jul 07 13:13:37 no luck their either :( Jul 07 13:14:50 s/their/there Jul 07 13:14:54 oops Jul 07 13:14:55 Let's see, alternative OSes for the NITs. Debian, Mamona, Poky, Ubuntu, . . . Jul 07 13:15:42 many alternatives but only on solution :p Jul 07 13:15:55 No, I agree. ;) Jul 07 13:16:02 But I'm documenting them on the wiki. Jul 07 13:16:41 how is the official one called? Jul 07 13:16:56 Official wiki or official OS? Jul 07 13:17:10 ITOS right Jul 07 13:17:12 argh, it's broken on my N810 now too Jul 07 13:17:20 Maemo, actually. Jul 07 13:17:31 lardman|home, it can only pair to one at a time Jul 07 13:17:40 on the tablet you'll have to re-pair Jul 07 13:17:40 keesj, https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand#Definitions Jul 07 13:17:49 heh, two days pass - and the same people are still here!:) Jul 07 13:18:25 RST38h: read all about it on http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/all Jul 07 13:18:45 johnx: ok Jul 07 13:19:46 argh, still not working Jul 07 13:19:55 ~lart BT on Linux for being a pita Jul 07 13:19:55 * infobot makes a balloon animal out of BT on Linux for being a pita Jul 07 13:20:22 err, pita tastes good... Jul 07 13:20:29 :) Jul 07 13:20:50 lardman|home, remove the device listing in maemo, put your headset into pairing mode, pair on maemo Jul 07 13:21:10 I wonder why would tele2 gprs mess with control sequences in ssh... Jul 07 13:21:24 this should not be happening right? Jul 07 13:22:08 control sequences? as in keystrokes sent over ssh? Jul 07 13:22:08 data:text/html, Jul 07 13:22:15 johnx: done that, re-paired, rebooted, still not working Jul 07 13:22:15 could someone tell me what that's a picture of? Jul 07 13:22:47 is mplayer hanging on maemo or are you getting an error? Jul 07 13:22:54 johnx: yes Jul 07 13:23:06 RST38h, that should not be happening Jul 07 13:23:32 weird crap. Jul 07 13:23:35 an error, Unknown PCM bluetooth and then a few more Jul 07 13:24:02 herwood: am now Jul 07 13:24:11 on the other hand, I have internet now. Isnt it wonderful?:) Jul 07 13:24:38 hmm, a2dp disable has enabled it Jul 07 13:24:41 slightly worrying ;) Jul 07 13:25:16 maybe it is a toggle? Jul 07 13:25:17 back to work Jul 07 13:25:25 dunno, johnx? Jul 07 13:25:43 a2dp toggle should be the toggle Jul 07 13:25:53 but it's also possible my script is broken Jul 07 13:28:32 timeless: looks like an animal skull (mask) and very long claws Jul 07 13:29:09 timeless, V for Vendetta http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/ Jul 07 13:29:28 ah Jul 07 13:29:31 thanks Jul 07 13:29:45 pixelwar Jul 07 13:31:46 shit. . . . Jul 07 13:32:19 i feel offended :P Jul 07 13:32:20 Just finished writing up the alternative oses page and I hit cmd-w in the wrong damn application. Jul 07 13:32:40 ugh Jul 07 13:32:56 gna Jul 07 13:33:07 * GeneralAntilles starts over. Jul 07 13:33:20 That's why you should do your editing it a text editor, folks. ;) Jul 07 13:33:21 that's why I have firefox keep the post buffer (?) for closed windows Jul 07 13:34:28 you need to install undo reboot device :) Jul 07 13:35:04 I always wanted embedded vim in gecko... Jul 07 13:36:30 wnd: http://gpl.internetconnection.net/vi/ Jul 07 13:36:57 robtaylor: I'm still having problems with the dbus thing and I was wondering that could you still give me a couple of tips? Jul 07 13:39:23 nomis, I meant using vim in arbitrary textarea. besides that thing failed to do the first thing I tried. it looks nice, though. :-) Jul 07 13:42:49 not even dG works as it should Jul 07 13:42:51 wms: http://www.developernotes.com/post/Vim-2b-Firefox-3d-Vimperator.aspx ? Jul 07 13:43:53 I neve Jul 07 13:43:58 iirc vimperator didn't affect text editing, only parts of navigation and rendering Jul 07 13:44:34 wnd: dG works for me. Jul 07 13:44:41 * aquatix remembers having vim embedded in a textarea Jul 07 13:44:48 or something like that Jul 07 13:44:49 for me it also deletes line above the cursor Jul 07 13:45:54 wnd: oh, right. Jul 07 13:45:59 and "x" doesn't work properly in visual mode Jul 07 13:46:04 * Stskeeps returns to the internets Jul 07 13:46:13 wms: ah, something like this: http://marc-abramowitz.com/archives/2005/04/27/editing-firefox-textareas-with-vim/ Jul 07 13:47:00 title looks promising Jul 07 13:47:22 why do you need that? Jul 07 13:47:23 Alright, it's done: https://wiki.maemo.org/Alternative_operating_systems Jul 07 13:47:40 hmmm Jul 07 13:47:53 actually, I guess it would be pretty handy for writing blog posts and such Jul 07 13:49:39 I figured that gecko-based vim was exactly what I needed when I was using web-based forums more often Jul 07 13:50:31 and as for weblogs, I ended up writing my own set of weblogging scripts so that I could write and edit entries with vim, and publish things from command line Jul 07 13:51:52 wnd, great :-) Jul 07 13:52:06 but yeah, web-based forums would be one, if you write a lot of posts Jul 07 13:52:07 johnx: ok Jul 07 13:52:14 or write really long posts Jul 07 13:52:27 Oooh, new maemo.org profiles going up today. Jul 07 13:52:33 Shiny Jul 07 13:52:38 johnx: I'll probably grab an Angstrom image and test on mu c750, save breaking my build computer :) Jul 07 13:52:51 gan: eh? Jul 07 13:52:57 GeneralAntilles: Installing it right now ;) Jul 07 13:53:09 http://www.screencast.com/users/bergie/folders/Jing/media/5dbd54fd-e33e-43c6-ba5b-94ef5e46650f Jul 07 13:53:29 X-Fade: me want the shiny Jul 07 13:53:35 requires js Jul 07 13:53:37 * timeless no like Jul 07 13:54:07 lardman, sounds good, but angstrom-distribution.org appears down Jul 07 13:54:07 profiles look good Jul 07 13:54:17 johnx: no great rush Jul 07 13:54:19 nm, word is it should be back Jul 07 13:54:42 johnx: works for me.... Jul 07 13:54:50 yeah, just came back Jul 07 13:55:06 :) Jul 07 13:55:38 Hehe, IRC nick field + http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ == karma whoring? Jul 07 13:55:42 I plan to patch their version of bluez-utils to spit out the data about the freq, bitpool size, subbands, etc. that they are trying to encode, see if they are the same as ours Jul 07 13:55:46 * GeneralAntilles laughs maniacally. Jul 07 13:56:17 * Jaffa grins Jul 07 13:56:19 only one irc name? Jul 07 13:56:26 Ha Jul 07 13:56:29 johnx: you use a CF BT card I assume? Jul 07 13:56:35 usb actually Jul 07 13:56:40 ah, ok Jul 07 13:56:51 the cheapest one I could fine years ago :) Jul 07 13:57:08 I'll have to dig out my CF card and try to remember the incantations to get it working Jul 07 13:57:34 * timeless rotfl Jul 07 13:57:47 the error accessing internal.maemo.org at the end is great Jul 07 13:58:13 timeless, it'll only be another 8 months to get multiple IRC nicks. ;) Jul 07 13:58:57 oh the joy. firefoo can actually start vim to allow easy editing for textareas. :-) Jul 07 13:59:12 of textareas, even Jul 07 14:00:20 herwood: it might be best to ask on #dbus Jul 07 14:06:41 robtaylor: ok Jul 07 14:16:10 * johnx sleeps Jul 07 14:22:02 hmm, I wonder if there's something wrong in me. For a brief second I considered using vim or emacs Jul 07 14:22:45 after realizing the automatic word wrap feature in pico is actually extremely annoying in some cases Jul 07 14:25:20 Mikho, use joe Jul 07 14:25:29 that's where I went after pico Jul 07 14:25:35 before ending up in vi Jul 07 14:26:57 lardman|afk, tested a2dp in angstrom, got around 20-25% CPU usage at 416MHz, got the same skips and slowdowns as in a2dp on the n800, so I guess it is just problem of low speed CPUs being asked too much Jul 07 14:27:22 buffersize was the same as os2008, period size was 1024 Jul 07 14:27:26 * johnx really sleeps Jul 07 14:29:10 hmm, maybe I will Jul 07 14:38:32 jaffa: ping :) Jul 07 14:38:35 (and gan) Jul 07 14:38:43 i'm finally working on the next release notes Jul 07 14:38:50 Woo Jul 07 14:39:06 any preference for how to see things? Jul 07 14:39:17 johnx: ok, thanks Jul 07 14:39:18 i can work from a docs.google text file and you can watch as i go Jul 07 14:39:30 in which case there'd be no links in it, not normal anyway Jul 07 14:39:41 No preference, whatever works for you. Jul 07 14:43:57 gan: share w/ jaffa Jul 07 14:44:01 note that it's going to take a while... Jul 07 14:44:48 Good god Jul 07 14:44:50 I can see why. . . . Jul 07 14:46:55 then there's thhe minor detail that i have to strip out all the internal links... Jul 07 14:47:47 nice Jul 07 14:48:01 now i just get to figure out if a given patch is live or dead Jul 07 14:48:54 that's annoying, the patch seems alive Jul 07 14:50:32 * timeless sighs Jul 07 14:50:34 i hate this part :) Jul 07 14:50:51 the bug i'm looking at was "fixed" in chinook by backing out a certain fix Jul 07 14:51:15 but it seems that they managed to "resolve" the bug somehow for diablo and recommit some fix for the other thign Jul 07 14:57:30 hi, please i could not found it on the web now ... could be saved configuration from chinook restored in diablo ? ... after flashing to diablo and restoring configuration, my n810 is very unstable and reboots too often Jul 07 14:57:47 Corrupt internal card? Jul 07 14:58:03 There really shouldn't be a lot of issues with restoring a Chinook backup on Diablo. Jul 07 14:58:22 But internal card corruption + virtual memory is a big cause of instability and reboots. Jul 07 14:58:32 Especially with the N810, as the internal card basically ships corrupted. Jul 07 14:58:34 New profiles are active :) Jul 07 14:58:51 Ooh Jul 07 14:58:52 Purtp Jul 07 14:59:02 s/Purtp/Purty/ Jul 07 14:59:03 GeneralAntilles meant: Purty Jul 07 15:01:33 so, Android runs on N810 Jul 07 15:01:46 I hear Jul 07 15:01:56 bugzilla_reported has no content: http://maemo.org/profile/view/timeless/ Jul 07 15:02:00 Ahh, that reminds me, I've got to release my touchscreen working kernel for N800 too :) Jul 07 15:02:31 timeless: True, that plugin doesn't provide links yet. Jul 07 15:02:38 Nor does discussion. Jul 07 15:02:44 Same thing ;) Jul 07 15:02:55 can someone please explain why http://maemo.org/profile/view/qgil/ lays out differently from mine? Jul 07 15:03:01 Although discussion will show up when the forum feature goes live. Jul 07 15:03:04 note that i have an avatar and qgil doesn't Jul 07 15:03:24 And qgil should have an avatar too.. Jul 07 15:03:32 yeah well... Jul 07 15:03:37 ignore that :) Jul 07 15:03:43 oh Jul 07 15:03:46 hrm Jul 07 15:04:02 * timeless shrugs Jul 07 15:04:12 he doesn't :) Jul 07 15:04:29 timeless: I do see it.. Jul 07 15:04:38 well, i don't :) Jul 07 15:04:44 and i do see the maemo.org banner at the top Jul 07 15:05:18 Hrm, under "Publish account details" it says "Username, first and last name are mandatory", but there are checkboxes next to First name and Last name. . . . Jul 07 15:05:29 yeah welll.. Jul 07 15:07:29 GeneralAntilles: ufff that doesn't sound good... i there a good way to find the problem with internal memory corruption ? .... maybe installing syslog and remote logging ? Jul 07 15:07:48 jahor: fdisk will show it iirc Jul 07 15:08:01 http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/2008/03/do-you-use-built-in-memory-card-on-n810.html Jul 07 15:08:37 gan/x-fade: see top of my draft for how i see qgil Jul 07 15:08:52 User rating doesn't seem to work here. . . . Jul 07 15:09:33 GeneralAntilles: thanx... i read this couple of days before, but didnt think it could be this issue... before diablo it was stable Jul 07 15:09:49 jahor, it may have become corrupted since then. Jul 07 15:10:00 But that's probably the leading cause of system-wide instability. Jul 07 15:10:13 timeless: I see the same. Although the icon works for me. (It is the memcached problem that acts up there) Jul 07 15:10:32 GeneralAntilles: thanx alot, i will try to check it Jul 07 15:12:18 heh Jul 07 15:12:35 so now w/ lots of effort, i can find out who's been burrying my stuff :) Jul 07 15:12:46 Ha Jul 07 15:13:02 Track them down and thumb them? :P Jul 07 15:13:58 Interesting Jul 07 15:14:08 I guess the itT profile link wants a URL. :D Jul 07 15:18:58 hmm, some cool Android apps out there (http://code.google.com/android/images/adc1r1_deck.pdf) Jul 07 15:20:02 Lots of these apps won't work on the android that's on itt. Jul 07 15:20:19 I was just thinking in general Jul 07 15:20:31 Ah, soz Jul 07 15:20:46 tho I'll try your package later on :) Jul 07 15:21:17 Framebuffer is set to automatic by default in that kernel, don't know if it will mess with any of your work :) Jul 07 15:21:53 I'm not doing much fb work atm, waiting to see what ssvb comes up with Jul 07 15:21:54 * qwerty12 clones my kernel tree and starts to make seperate kernels for N800 and N810 Jul 07 15:24:37 * Stskeeps boots up his n800 after a week away from it for more debian/ubuntu tablet hacking. Jul 07 15:25:16 qwerty12: why do some apps not run? Jul 07 15:25:50 It's an old version of the userspace/sdk, the latest runs much more slower, so I'm sticking with the old :) Jul 07 15:26:04 ok Jul 07 15:26:09 is it emulated then? Jul 07 15:26:21 Nah, it runs directly on the device Jul 07 15:26:26 [offtopic: navman / garmin / tomtom - obvious choice?] Jul 07 15:26:26 good Jul 07 15:26:44 gpd, I really like the Nüvis Jul 07 15:26:54 But don't have any experience with navman Jul 07 15:26:55 It uses a loop file system, I ditched it and ran it off a real ext2 partition and the speed was much better. Jul 07 15:27:02 and only a little experience with older TomToms. Jul 07 15:27:38 [obviously I have an N800 + maemomapper - but this is for a parent] Jul 07 15:27:41 * GeneralAntilles is really bored with having to login all the time at maemo.org Jul 07 15:27:48 qwerty12: some really cool ideas for applications in that doc, it's amazing what $25k will do to motivate people :) Jul 07 15:28:09 GeneralAntilles: Have FF remember for you Jul 07 15:28:12 gpd, might be worthwhile to drop by Best Buy or something and try them out. Jul 07 15:28:21 GeneralAntilles: that way, when you change computer, you can't remember your password :) Jul 07 15:28:27 lardman, remembering the information isn't the problem. Jul 07 15:28:37 lardman, yeah, $25k is great amount though :) Jul 07 15:28:42 GeneralAntilles: yah - will do - just wondering if there was an obvious choice: eg. TomTom = evil or something Jul 07 15:28:42 Having to click "Login" and wait 30 seconds-1 minute is the problem. Jul 07 15:28:57 On every damn page. Jul 07 15:29:02 qwerty12: some of the location based services are really quite cool Jul 07 15:29:17 qwerty12: map mash-ups or whatever they're called Jul 07 15:29:33 qwerty12: the Yanks seem to have a thing about disasters I see :) Jul 07 15:30:10 Hehe, CA is on a plate boundary. We aren't but we have to suffer with dodgy weather :P Jul 07 15:30:19 * lardman wonders if Yank is seen as rude by any Americans? Jul 07 15:30:24 * qwerty12 should have packed a coat, the rain has given me a headache Jul 07 15:30:36 lol . . . rasta Maemo https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_lav4you_10.png Jul 07 15:30:37 Sun's out here for the next 3min at least :p Jul 07 15:30:57 lardman: eh. It's mildly rude. Jul 07 15:31:02 lardman, well, "Yanks" are northerners over here. ;) Jul 07 15:31:15 About as rude as saying "Oh. It's you." in Japanese. =op Jul 07 15:31:15 texel: my apologies then Jul 07 15:31:18 yeah, it depends, i wouldn't assume it meant americans Jul 07 15:31:22 It's no biggie, though. =op Jul 07 15:31:23 GeneralAntilles: what are you Southerners called then? Jul 07 15:31:25 i'd assume it meant the baseball team Jul 07 15:31:43 I'm guessing Dirty South Jul 07 15:31:52 Hehe Jul 07 15:31:55 Haha Jul 07 15:31:57 Depends on the company. ;) Jul 07 15:32:05 Yeah, I suppose someone from the deep south could take offense to that. Jul 07 15:32:16 I haven't spent a lot of time up north, though. Jul 07 15:32:20 But the chances of them being in IRC, talking about Nxxx's is rather... remote. =op Jul 07 15:32:22 is 'texans' a bad answer? :) Jul 07 15:32:29 Southerners generally think of them selves as "Southerners" Jul 07 15:32:31 timeless, yes. Jul 07 15:32:46 Texas != the South Jul 07 15:32:50 Texas == Midwest. Jul 07 15:33:36 South Carolina == South Jul 07 15:33:41 Virginia == South. Jul 07 15:33:43 That area. =op Jul 07 15:33:53 Maryland == South Jul 07 15:33:56 technically.... Jul 07 15:33:58 GeneralAntilles: Thumbs on users fixed. Jul 07 15:33:59 _Parts_ of Virginia == South. Jul 07 15:34:05 And no part of Maryland is the South anymore. Jul 07 15:34:11 ATL = South (aka the reference to Dirty South - Always hear it in American RnB :)) Jul 07 15:34:16 derf: historically it was South of the Mason Dixon line Jul 07 15:34:23 the only line that ever really mattered :( Jul 07 15:34:27 s/ATL/GA Jul 07 15:34:31 timeless: Sure. But there are currently no Southerners there. Jul 07 15:34:35 Hm. I think derf's referring to "South" in a cultural way. Jul 07 15:34:38 Were the south the confederates? Jul 07 15:34:46 Some countries Jul 07 15:34:54 I thought anything south of Watford wus suveners.... Jul 07 15:35:04 Oxford! Jul 07 15:35:04 derf: if you go into the other counties (away from DC, Baltimore), i think you can find plantations and things Jul 07 15:35:14 qwerty12: s/countries/states/ ? Jul 07 15:35:24 but yes, in general, it isn't really "south" these days Jul 07 15:35:27 texel, yes, doh Jul 07 15:35:30 Hehe Jul 07 15:35:41 Though back during the civil war they might have considered those regions "countries" Jul 07 15:35:44 lardman: technically no Jul 07 15:35:45 Since they claimed to have seceeded. Jul 07 15:35:51 South was Mason Dixon line Jul 07 15:35:54 (me isn't used to states, unless you count Ireland and Wales & Scotland in some sort of way :P) Jul 07 15:35:59 and mostly meant whether slavery was accepted or not Jul 07 15:36:09 Hehehe Jul 07 15:36:10 the interesting bit of trivia there is that the last state to free slaves was MD Jul 07 15:36:46 because Lincoln freed the slaves in the secessionist states first Jul 07 15:37:02 it's a neat trick, freeing slaves in states you don't control :) Jul 07 15:37:07 qwerty12: heh -- I can understand that. Though /techinically/ the way the EU and the US are organized, the terms /could/ be used interchangably. Jul 07 15:37:14 but that didn't apply to MD, because it remained in the union Jul 07 15:37:19 so slaves there had to wait for the war to end Jul 07 15:37:39 In reality, each state is essentially it's own "country" that has agreed to accept oversight of a federal government. Jul 07 15:38:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Proclamation Jul 07 15:38:08 any states with legalised weed? Jul 07 15:38:18 lol . . . Jul 07 15:38:22 qwerty12: only one I know of, and that's only for medicinal purposes. =op Jul 07 15:38:25 qwerty12 really does have a one-track mind. Jul 07 15:38:28 .ca.us Jul 07 15:38:36 w00t, here I come :P Jul 07 15:38:39 Haha Jul 07 15:38:47 qwerty12: got glaucoma? =op Jul 07 15:38:54 I have now! Jul 07 15:38:59 * texel falls over Jul 07 15:39:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Map-of-US-state-medical-marijuana-laws.png Jul 07 15:39:05 * timeless shrugs Jul 07 15:39:14 technically Countries can be termed "States" Jul 07 15:39:15 Oooh. Jul 07 15:39:18 Good find, GeneralAntilles Jul 07 15:39:26 the "State of Israel" Jul 07 15:39:34 Right. Jul 07 15:39:46 That's what I meant. =o) Jul 07 15:39:52 the "State of confusion" Jul 07 15:39:55 that is where I live Jul 07 15:40:02 GeneralAntilles, ta, I think I'm in love ^-^ Jul 07 15:40:08 (with the weed states that is) Jul 07 15:40:20 The term "state" was used instead of "country" because the idea was the whole main contenent was supposed to be the "country" in a different sense. =op Jul 07 15:40:23 wow, i didn't realize how many states were in there Jul 07 15:40:31 manifest destiny and all that. =op Jul 07 15:40:54 Wow. DIdn't realize NY was legalized. Jul 07 15:41:12 for midicinal uses Jul 07 15:41:16 Right. Jul 07 15:41:26 means shit to normal people Jul 07 15:41:36 Heh Jul 07 15:41:48 Well, it means quite a bit to those who have glaucoma. =op Jul 07 15:41:59 * qwerty12 puts my hands up Jul 07 15:42:05 or rather his :/ Jul 07 15:42:07 Personally, the "war on drugs" is such a waste of time. =o( Jul 07 15:42:12 ^ Jul 07 15:42:19 And money. =o( Jul 07 15:42:40 And D.A.R.E. is a freaking joke. =op Jul 07 15:42:49 One of the more impressive scams perpetrated on the American public. Jul 07 15:43:03 GeneralAntilles: ahh. You mean like Social Security? =op Jul 07 15:43:09 That too. ;) Jul 07 15:43:19 Global warming? Jul 07 15:43:26 I blame that on Raytray. Jul 07 15:43:46 I blame that on the cows with their methane. Jul 07 15:43:51 Bwahahaha! Jul 07 15:43:54 +1! Jul 07 15:44:00 'tis true. Jul 07 15:44:12 Cows are a huge source of "greenhouse" gases. Jul 07 15:44:17 Funny how /nobody/ /ever/ reports how much methane those things dump into the atmosphere. Jul 07 15:44:59 Instead they focus on cars. Jul 07 15:45:04 Steak is just too damn tasty. Jul 07 15:45:13 lol Jul 07 15:45:17 That's what vat grown beef is for! Jul 07 15:45:24 Ha Jul 07 15:45:27 "OMG! It's made of vat grown beef!" Jul 07 15:45:35 Soylent Green is Beef! Jul 07 15:45:36 * GeneralAntilles would be interested to see that, actually. Jul 07 15:45:37 farms are actualy starting to harvest the methane now Jul 07 15:45:54 heat your house with cow farts! Jul 07 15:45:57 Pig shit pools are a good source of methane. Jul 07 15:46:07 * texel falls over laughing at Proteous' comment Jul 07 15:46:33 Proteous: I wish the cow farms out here in .az.us would learn to do so. Jul 07 15:46:47 When I lived in Chandler, you'd end up smelling it for /miles/ away. =o( Jul 07 15:46:54 * timeless thought pigs were worse than cows Jul 07 15:47:00 heh Jul 07 15:47:38 That being said, the conditions they're kept in out here is terrible. Jul 07 15:47:45 * timeless sighs Jul 07 15:47:47 garage is *slow* Jul 07 15:47:55 maemo.org is slow Jul 07 15:48:07 gan: mxr.maemo.org isn't too bad :) Jul 07 15:49:12 Oooh. Jul 07 15:49:17 POWDER might be good for porting to the Nxxx Jul 07 15:49:18 mxr's frontpage needs rebranding for Maemo. Jul 07 15:49:31 http://freshmeat.net/releases/280600/ Jul 07 15:50:09 new brand? Jul 07 15:50:09 Ok, I'm renabling manual update of the framebuffer, is all I need to do is set CONFIG_FB_OMAP_MANUAL_UPDATE to y? Jul 07 15:50:35 you mean the gray background? Jul 07 15:50:46 Mostly the links to mozilla's CVS. ;) Jul 07 15:51:17 hrm Jul 07 15:51:26 cute... the bottom of that page makes no sense Jul 07 15:52:37 oh, i should get a bugzilla component :) Jul 07 15:55:42 um, where does a normal user find promoter? Jul 07 15:55:57 qwerty12: no idea Jul 07 15:56:18 timeless: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Jul 07 15:56:38 http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#Promotion more specifically Jul 07 15:56:45 lardman, thanks, I just grabbed a stock 2420_config, told me what I needed to know :) Jul 07 15:59:20 jaffa: https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Website Jul 07 15:59:22 Jaffa: sorry for dropping the -i switch dpkg-buildpackage from the wiki, I was overreacting :) Jul 07 15:59:57 btw, is News = planet? Jul 07 16:00:05 johnx: not sure whether you'll see this, but I'm wondering if the bluez sbc encoder does variable bitpool values Jul 07 16:01:36 Catching up on the weekend's traffic: I had the same problem with BT Dun that other people are reporting. Jul 07 16:01:36 Hm. Actually, this might be a better time to ask the same question I had last night. Jul 07 16:01:49 Is it okay for an extras package to depend on another package in extras? Jul 07 16:01:53 I fixed the DUN problem by clearing my username, though I can't explain why that'd work. Jul 07 16:01:58 texel: yes Jul 07 16:02:02 Excellent. Jul 07 16:02:10 Okay, that makes porting kanatest MUCH simpler. Jul 07 16:02:30 Thanks. =o) Jul 07 16:02:33 otherwise you'd have to statically link, or provide all the extra libs in your package Jul 07 16:02:36 * texel nods Jul 07 16:02:40 I kinda figured, but I wanted to be sure. Jul 07 16:02:41 which would be *bad* :) Jul 07 16:02:49 yeah, go for it Jul 07 16:02:51 I wasn't aware the installer was fixed to install dependencies properly. Jul 07 16:02:55 And break a lot of other packages :) Jul 07 16:02:59 * texel nods Jul 07 16:03:18 texel: How so, seems to work? Jul 07 16:03:19 Now to reinstall scratchbox and the sdk... =op Jul 07 16:03:48 lardman: a few times in the past on older builds (say around OS2007) I had issues trying to install debs that had dependencies with the installer. Jul 07 16:04:16 texel, automatic dependency resolving only works on packages being installed from a repo already :) Jul 07 16:04:19 texel: I think there are issues sometimes if you try to update a package, and the OS depends on that exact version Jul 07 16:04:24 Ahh. Jul 07 16:05:18 GeneralAntilles: reload? Jul 07 16:06:05 Do we still have a "deb packaging for maemo maintainers" doc laying around somewhere? Jul 07 16:06:08 maemo -> Maemo Jul 07 16:06:17 Delete the non-link "IT OS 2008" Jul 07 16:06:27 and "IT OS 2008" -> "OS2008" Jul 07 16:07:25 ~lart maemo.org for being slow. nokia.com ain't slow like maemo.org is. Jul 07 16:07:25 * infobot cats /dev/urandom into maemo.org's ear for being slow. nokia.com ain't slow like maemo.org is. Jul 07 16:07:43 texel, anywayz, http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node14.html Jul 07 16:07:59 dougt: mxr.maemo.org, :) Jul 07 16:10:11 jott, you around? Jul 07 16:34:15 darius++ for thinking I am right as always :p Jul 07 16:34:19 timeless: what version of gcc are you using when building the maemo browser? Jul 07 16:34:23 timeless: gcc version 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2) ? Jul 07 16:35:31 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14237 Jul 07 16:35:54 yay, my n810 is on the truck for delivery today.... time to setup a development environment for it Jul 07 16:36:00 keesj, new Darius creeps me out. Jul 07 16:36:27 Cptnodegard, nice price. Jul 07 16:37:20 sounds about right Jul 07 16:37:30 * qwerty12 would buy a wii controller just to use it on N800 Jul 07 16:37:43 dougt: http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/diablo/source/gcc-3.4-3.4.4cs2005q3.2/ Jul 07 16:37:45 Yes you should. Jul 07 16:37:46 says "yes" :) Jul 07 16:38:19 err, make that http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/gcc-3.4-3.4.4cs2005q3.2 :) Jul 07 16:38:53 timeless: any patches on that? Jul 07 16:39:07 on top of code sourcery? no Jul 07 16:39:19 is it pure gcc3.4.4? dunno, probably not :) Jul 07 16:39:23 we are using gcc version 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2) (same thing, i think) Jul 07 16:39:27 you can grab the deb source just like it did :) Jul 07 16:39:30 and are seeing random crashes. Jul 07 16:39:47 when we build as non-opt, the problems go away. Jul 07 16:39:52 um, yes Jul 07 16:40:01 yeah, i know. Jul 07 16:40:02 i think we aren't building heavy opt :) Jul 07 16:40:11 i wouldn't recommend it Jul 07 16:40:15 oic. Jul 07 16:40:23 from memory, the locking instructions for the platform aren't actually threadsafe Jul 07 16:40:25 among other spiffy features Jul 07 16:40:33 are you just setting the global opt flag to -01 or something? Jul 07 16:40:41 quite likely Jul 07 16:40:57 timeless: that is a selling feature if you ask me. Jul 07 16:41:00 your best served by running a build of ours and checking Jul 07 16:41:13 dougt: lame platforms? Jul 07 16:41:17 timeless: yup. or stealing your build settings and seeing of our problems go away. Jul 07 16:41:22 you mean like our wonderful lack of hardware accel? Jul 07 16:41:31 timeless: ship it! Jul 07 16:41:37 hey, we did! Jul 07 16:41:44 doh! Jul 07 16:42:10 honestly, if I get an IR port on the thing, it will be the most awesome device in my house. Jul 07 16:42:23 i really want to be able to control my tv from it . Jul 07 16:42:37 dougt: personally, i prefer the feature where the factory decided to format the n810's internal mmc beyond their physical capacity :) Jul 07 16:42:42 dougt: yeah, i'd love that Jul 07 16:42:45 i would even write a protocol handler so that tvguide could change my tv's channels. :-) Jul 07 16:42:52 my cable box stopped listening to the remote a few weeks ago Jul 07 16:42:59 otoh, it doesn't matter now, today it won't boot properly Jul 07 16:43:01 so... Jul 07 16:43:05 :-) Jul 07 16:43:06 dougt, irreco? Jul 07 16:43:18 GeneralAntilles: get a rfc started! Jul 07 16:43:31 dougt: mythemoter Jul 07 16:43:36 probably want to make it not know about the "ir" bits. Jul 07 16:43:47 controls my TV just fine... :) Jul 07 16:43:53 tv:channel=5 Jul 07 16:43:55 * timeless frowns Jul 07 16:44:07 ok, so... now i'm really confused Jul 07 16:44:10 or HAVA if you want streaming, too. Jul 07 16:44:11 anyhow, we are out in the sticks... Jul 07 16:44:16 the cvs log link in http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/diablo/source/microb-engine-1.0.4/mozilla/embedding/browser/activex/tests/vbrowse/browser.frx seems to work Jul 07 16:44:21 but the one here: http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/microb-engine-1.0.4/mozilla/embedding/browser/activex/tests/vbrowse/browser.frx Jul 07 16:44:22 timeless: can you point me at your moz config. Jul 07 16:44:24 seems to be broken Jul 07 16:44:48 probably http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/microb-engine-1.0.4/debian/configs/mozconfiggtk2 Jul 07 16:44:56 but you'd definitely want to check the control file Jul 07 16:45:07 what does the control file do? Jul 07 16:45:15 hack the planet :( Jul 07 16:45:26 err, not control. "rules" Jul 07 16:45:33 http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/microb-engine-1.0.4/debian/rules Jul 07 16:45:54 256 ifeq (,$(findstring $(DEB_HOST_ARCH),arm armel)) Jul 07 16:45:54 257 optimize_add += -O1 Jul 07 16:45:59 is an interesting gem Jul 07 16:46:18 figuring out what a rules file actually does is rocket science Jul 07 16:47:03 dougt: i think reading about:buildconfig is probably easier :) Jul 07 16:47:13 i suspect most of the answers you need are embedded there :) Jul 07 16:47:23 yeah, but we do fun stuff like change opt flags of specific modules, right? Jul 07 16:47:32 not that often Jul 07 16:47:34 but yes Jul 07 16:47:39 js, xpcom/io Jul 07 16:47:48 xpcom/io ?? Jul 07 16:47:54 i think so/ Jul 07 16:48:08 http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/microb-engine-1.0.4/mozilla/xpcom/io/Makefile.in Jul 07 16:48:11 doesn't look like it Jul 07 16:48:18 reflect perhaps Jul 07 16:48:25 http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/xpcom/io/Makefile.in#56 Jul 07 16:48:26 nm Jul 07 16:48:27 mac only. Jul 07 16:48:35 wait Jul 07 16:48:49 yeah, we do. Jul 07 16:49:00 pH5: no probs :) Jul 07 16:49:14 url? Jul 07 16:49:21 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__open__&id=408258 Jul 07 16:49:31 http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/xpcom/io/Makefile.in#53 Jul 07 16:49:39 that's new Jul 07 16:49:52 nice bandaide. Jul 07 16:50:11 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=293018 ? Jul 07 16:51:47 anyway, we don't have that code Jul 07 16:52:00 we == maemo Jul 07 16:52:07 yes Jul 07 16:52:28 at least, not in diablo Jul 07 16:53:02 so, using gcc-3.4-3.4.4cs2005q3.2 w/ full optimizations is probably not a great idea. Jul 07 16:53:10 * timeless rotfl Jul 07 16:53:16 point taken. Jul 07 16:53:22 * timeless passes dougt a hand-grenade minus the pin Jul 07 16:53:27 that's safer Jul 07 16:53:27 have you messed around with 4.2? Jul 07 16:53:40 there are plans to change toolchains Jul 07 16:53:40 hmmf. Today, my position in maemo mapper was *way* off. Like, 100s of meters. How to debug that? Jul 07 16:54:16 ive just been called stupid and off my rocker for giving away a marketable product :( Jul 07 16:55:00 lcuk: There's people who absolutely does not get free software/open source. Jul 07 16:55:01 but there is nothing better than gaining a name and recognition for something - so fuck the neigh sayers :D its all worth it and i enjoyed/am enjoying doing it Jul 07 16:55:12 lcuk: If you can't explain it to them, just ignore them. Jul 07 16:55:46 even if i did feel like that its a bit late now ;) i cant rollback svn ;) Jul 07 16:56:15 i couwell at the summi Jul 07 16:56:19 oh crap Jul 07 16:56:24 lcuk: you can always fork your own closed source version (if you do own all the code yourself, that iz) :) Jul 07 16:56:27 damn paste Jul 07 16:56:31 lcuk_out: set up a donation paypal :P Jul 07 16:56:49 lol Jul 07 16:56:50 it does actually occasionally give cash for oss projects Jul 07 16:56:55 Some people just don't understand open source. Jul 07 16:56:57 donation wouldnt help me do what i enjoy doing fulltime :) and i know there arent enough of me to do it all Jul 07 16:57:46 hell, theres barely enough of me after work/home/misc to do any of this as it is Jul 07 16:59:07 There's also a bunch of people that hate open source because it takes the market from closed source. At the same time as they're dismissing the possibility that people can make something large/advanced enough in open source. Jul 07 16:59:23 stskeeps, i started working on liqbase to solve problems with this device, and i've used it as a way to re-learn c. if anyone else can use what ive written (and will continue to write) then excellent Jul 07 17:00:38 veggen, they are also mainly the same people who will copy ms office rather than try to make use of oo.org Jul 07 17:01:00 lcuk: true. Jul 07 17:01:09 lcuk, just out of question, wtf has it to do with your employer (I don't know anything about licensing, so sorry if this sounds n00b)? Jul 07 17:01:37 lcuk: heck, i learnt C through running a OSS project when i was 15.. my code still does reveal some of that though :> Jul 07 17:01:39 well i spend all day *not* doing anything on liqbase Jul 07 17:01:41 lcuk: and photoshop rather than gimp (or similar) Jul 07 17:02:03 Well, there's justification for that one. :P Jul 07 17:02:10 Gimp isn't quite up-to-snuff. Jul 07 17:02:16 no there isnt GeneralAntilles Jul 07 17:02:28 get involved and help explain where its wrong and how it can be fixed Jul 07 17:02:32 GA: sure. But many of the people using Photoshop are just to cheap to actually pay for it, they feel they have a right to steal it. Jul 07 17:02:36 or buy it Jul 07 17:02:42 Oh, well that. Jul 07 17:02:46 I'm not talking about that. Jul 07 17:03:13 i have no problem with people who want to buy commercial software (open or closed) you pay to have someone else worry about it Jul 07 17:03:23 Anyway, get back to me when Gimp has native OS X widgets. Jul 07 17:03:26 its like maps Jul 07 17:03:32 (sorry - copy it. I just do not buy the notion that copyright infringment == theft. It's still wrong/illegal, but it's not really theft) Jul 07 17:04:41 i seriously don't get how people can still think "software" is realistically supposed to be a "business" when there's no such thing as scarcity of goods, and every consumer is also a producer Jul 07 17:05:17 now that general computing is ubiquitous, software "scarcity" is just an absurdity Jul 07 17:05:22 you pay for the management of the product and technical assistance - thats the same whether its microsoft or mysql Jul 07 17:05:45 lcuk: And really, it's the same whether the product is closed source or open source. Jul 07 17:05:53 most users couldnt care less whether theres source there, thye just know a program does whatever Jul 07 17:06:05 agreed veggen :) Jul 07 17:06:14 that's another thing i don't get.. why pay for crappy support when the public support is so much better? Jul 07 17:06:34 time and energy Jul 07 17:06:49 Mousey: many OSS projects suffer from grumpy supporter syndrome though Jul 07 17:07:03 and communities Jul 07 17:07:09 "ive got xyz wrong with my widget" and people WILL help you. in a public forum, all bets are off and if people dont want to answer they wont Jul 07 17:07:40 Stskeeps, maybe, but increasingly its user communities which provide better support than corporate support organizations.. i know I get better support from this one channel than i'd ever get calling nokia Jul 07 17:08:16 starting in irc with "I'll give $50 to the first person who correctly helps me with..........." would probably get the same response as phoning the microsoft $50 per hour helpline Jul 07 17:08:17 the same just proved to be true for my mail server too, #cyrus helped me figure out sieve scripting Jul 07 17:08:46 haha, phoning microsoft gets you hold music and "we don't have that problem here, reinstall" Jul 07 17:08:57 mousey, but there is a difference here between hardware and software Jul 07 17:09:06 #cyrus is software! Jul 07 17:09:14 #maemo is software! Jul 07 17:09:25 * lcuk wonders how hes meant to tell what every single word means in every single context Jul 07 17:09:55 oh don't cop out on us now. this is one of my favorite topics! ^_^ Jul 07 17:10:00 but i bet lots of people have returned their nokia because you need special ninja skills to come in here and ask for help Jul 07 17:10:19 or the forums havelet them down Jul 07 17:10:20 there are also forums Jul 07 17:10:26 not everyone uses IRC, that's true Jul 07 17:10:42 but there are plenty of cases where calling support has let people down too Jul 07 17:10:45 and if you call nokia with a problem what would they do Jul 07 17:10:50 has anyone actually tried it Jul 07 17:11:05 i'd love to call nokia with a problem booting from my SD card Jul 07 17:11:07 that would be awesome Jul 07 17:11:20 do they support the nokia sponsored products? remember we get a warning if we try to install something unsigned Jul 07 17:11:22 i doubt fanoush is gonna answer the phone Jul 07 17:11:49 "hi nokia, my built in mediaplayer is borked it wont play my pron Jul 07 17:12:03 lcuk, google. :P Jul 07 17:12:16 that's my POINT. what's the point of calling support when 9 times outta 10 your problem is "outside their scope" Jul 07 17:12:17 my bet is you would end up at someone technical enough to support you Jul 07 17:12:32 i'll take that bet ^_^ Jul 07 17:12:49 haha Jul 07 17:13:05 GeneralAntilles: no fair answering the phone =P Jul 07 17:13:14 go for it, record it ans see - it would be genuinely interesting to see Jul 07 17:13:57 perhaps you will get a direct connection to quim Jul 07 17:14:44 Er, google for lcuk's context question. Jul 07 17:14:48 mousey, make sure you do have a problem first though and you havent jumped out of default hoops Jul 07 17:14:58 well it's way too late for that Jul 07 17:15:20 i hang out in here, odds are pretty slim my joint's even under warranty anymore ;) Jul 07 17:15:49 GeneralAntilles, yer, its a #maemo log Jul 07 17:16:33 Something really needs to be done about card corruption with Maemo Jul 07 17:16:42 Corruption on the internal card can completely bring the system down. Jul 07 17:16:51 and the user has no way of guessing that that might be the problem. Jul 07 17:16:55 i agree, is there a 1 click fix? Jul 07 17:17:01 that's why i switched to ext3 internally =) Jul 07 17:17:02 (serious) Jul 07 17:17:12 ext3 is a cpuhog Jul 07 17:17:15 Is that a N810 only thing or affects all OS2008? Jul 07 17:17:22 All of OS2008 Jul 07 17:17:28 n810 only, its MMC2 built in 2gb card Jul 07 17:17:30 OS2007, too. Jul 07 17:17:34 so what, i'll pay in cycles for FS robustness Jul 07 17:17:46 lcuk, an N800 with a corrupt internal card will have the same issues. Jul 07 17:17:49 is that the wrong-partition-table corruption problem? Jul 07 17:17:53 N800s just don't ship with corrupt internal card. Jul 07 17:17:59 but the 810 came out of the factory pre-corrupted Jul 07 17:18:10 wow Jul 07 17:18:13 A quick guess would be that it's the many default processes that access MMC (metalayer e.g.), ke-recv or somthing in the kernel :/ Jul 07 17:18:14 nomis, well, that issue is specific to the N810 and will eventually cause corruption which will lead to these symptoms Jul 07 17:18:27 since other cards are preformatted i dont see how its an os200x problem Jul 07 17:18:33 but the issue is that a corrupt internal card (N800 or N810) will bring your system to its knees. Jul 07 17:18:44 lcuk, listen to what I'm saying. :P Jul 07 17:18:54 * Mousey recommends ship with ext3 and add fsck to the boot process Jul 07 17:18:55 ANY CORRUPT INTERNAL CARD WILL BRING MAEMO TO ITS KNEES Jul 07 17:19:05 * Mousey panics! Jul 07 17:19:10 i am, my card is corrupted NOW i just havent reached the broken part Jul 07 17:19:25 Mousey, then what do Windows users do when they want to mount their cards on their computer? Jul 07 17:19:29 Mousey, Maybe when all the buyers of the N8*0's use Linux as main os Jul 07 17:19:32 what's a Windows user? Jul 07 17:19:33 Ext* is not a valid solution Jul 07 17:19:49 i can view Ext* on my windows computer Jul 07 17:19:50 *sigh* Jul 07 17:19:51 * nomis fixed his partition table before the system went down for the first time... Jul 07 17:19:52 sshfs Jul 07 17:20:02 ntfs? Jul 07 17:20:08 nomis, is it a hard job and would i as a crap user manage it ? Jul 07 17:20:26 no, my mmc1 is extwhatever and i use it daily from windows Jul 07 17:20:32 hm, I inserted an unformatted card into my N810 and it said it was corrupt, then I formatted it with N810 and it worked fine? Jul 07 17:20:35 i couldnt use it if i plugged via usb though Jul 07 17:20:43 lcuk: well, I fixed it using fdisk on a Linux box, not sure if that counts as "easy" Jul 07 17:20:49 besides, can't ship an ext3 windows/mac driver? it's an open standard, and it doesn't cost license fees, should already have implementations for Mac and Win. seems like a no brainer Jul 07 17:21:01 nomis, no its not... Jul 07 17:21:09 Card corruption will also make Application manager stop working. Jul 07 17:21:10 * lcuk waits for maemo summit for technical assistance ;) Jul 07 17:21:51 That one could be avoided with better handling in the application manager, for now, you have to use red pill mode and untick the use mmc option. Jul 07 17:21:54 Mousey, talk to Apple and Microsoft. Jul 07 17:22:09 Community support for ext* on both sucks. Jul 07 17:22:31 Basically, the issue is that Maemo really doesn't know how to handle card corruption Jul 07 17:22:31 I'd have thought ext support in Macs would be good? Jul 07 17:22:47 and it accounts for a SIGNIFICANT portion of user-reported difficulties. Jul 07 17:22:58 yer, i would have expected macs to be almost plug and play compat, cant it just slot into the mach kernel? Jul 07 17:22:58 qwerty12, the ext2 driver is from 2005 Jul 07 17:23:01 and it's slow as hell. Jul 07 17:23:05 as a new user of N810 I find it pretty difficult to actually find information... I'm sure it's there somewhere on maemo.org, maybe, but I haven't figured out how to navigate it :-) Jul 07 17:23:08 Ouch >.< Jul 07 17:23:12 There's no reason why support isn't good Jul 07 17:23:22 Just nobody has picked it up. Jul 07 17:23:28 why bother contacting apple and microsoft for open drivers that already exists? Jul 07 17:23:32 maybe they don't exist??? Jul 07 17:23:34 haha Jul 07 17:23:42 Either way Jul 07 17:23:43 nevermind, clearly i'm a dumbass Jul 07 17:23:54 Expecting somebody to install filesystem drivers to mount their card is stupid. Jul 07 17:24:02 That's not something Nokia could ship. Jul 07 17:24:05 that happens now Jul 07 17:24:12 that totally happens now Jul 07 17:24:16 plugging in usb memory sticks on lots of systems needs drivers Jul 07 17:24:17 The ONLY universal filesystem is FAT. Jul 07 17:24:20 ever hear of NDAS? Jul 07 17:25:01 NDAS is a NAS filesystem that a driver needs installing for Jul 07 17:25:11 North Devon Archaeological Society Jul 07 17:25:11 ships with a lot of external NAS boxes Jul 07 17:25:13 ?? Jul 07 17:25:30 video cards all need drivers, sound cards too Jul 07 17:25:41 mousey, i doubt most common folk come into contact with that ;) Jul 07 17:25:57 but practically everyone knows what a usb memory stick is and that it might need drivers Jul 07 17:26:01 it seems absurd that filesystem drivers need to be universal, but other peripherals don't Jul 07 17:26:12 wifi cards too Jul 07 17:26:32 a universal printer driver would be nice Jul 07 17:26:42 postscript? ;) Jul 07 17:26:50 ShadowJK: touche Jul 07 17:27:14 tell it to my deskjet 870 tho ;) Jul 07 17:27:38 Anyway, installing drivers isn't a valid solution. Jul 07 17:27:45 Technically feasible Jul 07 17:27:48 but not acceptable to Nokia. Jul 07 17:28:04 i get it, i really do. Jul 07 17:28:12 nokia's pc suite doesn't install any drivers? ;p Jul 07 17:28:14 AND i'll even shut up about it Jul 07 17:28:26 but, it's still absurd not to consider Jul 07 17:29:26 Anyone else noticed that "Nokia music store for N-series" (or something like that) doesn't work on N810? ;p Jul 07 17:29:36 * GeneralAntilles needs to file a bug. Jul 07 17:30:13 iirc, it tells me to use my PC and internet explorer instead Jul 07 17:30:19 * ShadowJK doesn't have that :p Jul 07 17:30:42 Hrm, what does that go under? Jul 07 17:30:46 what's internet explorer? Jul 07 17:30:49 How the mtdblocks partition specified in the N800, hard coded, kernel command line, or a special partition table? Jul 07 17:30:50 File system? Jul 07 17:31:21 hellwolf, kernel, also config partition for bootloader contains partition tablet Jul 07 17:31:24 *table Jul 07 17:31:32 that partition table was updated for diablo release Jul 07 17:32:26 qwe Jul 07 17:32:31 *_* Jul 07 17:33:06 hellwolf, what were you before you became a hellwolf? a badwolf? Jul 07 17:34:27 lcuk, the world is not like that please, badguy never goes hell Jul 07 17:35:03 qwerty12_N800, thank you, then I found that in flasher application I can change the location of the partition, why's that possible, if it's specified in the kernel Jul 07 17:35:22 lcuk, I was good :D Jul 07 17:36:47 the new profile pages show what posts you love and hate ... Jul 07 17:36:48 hellwolf, it may not be in kernel, but i did see a lot relating to it in the kernel. do you mean change the root/partition it boots from in flasher? Jul 07 17:37:08 (it's for sure in config partition though) Jul 07 17:37:30 I don't know, I see the options : --fiasco, -F --kernel, -k , ... Jul 07 17:37:47 Location of a FIASCO image Jul 07 17:37:51 Location of kernel image Jul 07 17:37:52 etc. Jul 07 17:37:55 keesj, time to be less arbitrary with your thumbing. :P Jul 07 17:38:20 indeed Jul 07 17:38:20 <||cw> hellwolf: isn't that refering to the local path of the image? Jul 07 17:38:40 <||cw> like, what image to upload? Jul 07 17:38:50 ||cw, ah.. should be :D Jul 07 17:39:37 qwerty12_N800, but you said diablo change the location, how could flasher be aware of that then Jul 07 17:39:50 re setting root device to boot from in flasher, the partition table still isn't modified but i'm too tired to explain what does Jul 07 17:40:04 partition table? Jul 07 17:40:08 it exists? Jul 07 17:40:38 yes, in config partition/cal Jul 07 17:40:39 yes, there are partition chairs as well Jul 07 17:40:59 what about coffee machine Jul 07 17:41:09 now you are pushing it Jul 07 17:41:20 * qwerty12_N800 wants liberal coffee machine Jul 07 17:41:52 anyone know how i'd go about installing phpgtk on an n810? Jul 07 17:41:52 lcuk, tea fan? how british (in posh voice) Jul 07 17:41:53 * lcuk wants a social coffee machine Jul 07 17:42:35 * lbt has a coffee machine Jul 07 17:42:37 <||cw> Maximander: same as anything else, setup the sdk and compile it Jul 07 17:42:45 not at all my good chap, i drink the finest roasted coffee beans asda will sell Jul 07 17:43:07 * lbt invites everyone round for a non-political cup of coffee Jul 07 17:43:15 I have scratchbox setup, but I'm not sure how to deal with deps Jul 07 17:43:16 * lcuk puts on his bowler hat and picks up his Times newspaper and trundles to the trainstation Jul 07 17:43:31 lol Jul 07 17:43:31 be there in a jiffy lbt Jul 07 17:43:35 * lbt thinks he's on Blue Mountain beans today... Jul 07 17:44:01 all this talk of coffee reminds me of a pet peeve of my missus Jul 07 17:44:10 * qwerty12_N800 doesn't drink tea or coffee :) Jul 07 17:44:10 she wont play scrabble with me any more :( Jul 07 17:44:23 i keep winning the game by doing triple word java Jul 07 17:45:19 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=199495 <--- qwerty likes. Jul 07 17:45:53 kde in a window? Jul 07 17:46:03 * qwerty12_N800 likes how hildon is still running Jul 07 17:46:14 yer, that seems like a nice compromise Jul 07 17:46:59 kde4? intruiging Jul 07 17:47:41 so, for installing packages in my build env to meet deps, can I just do sb2 --emulate apt-get install php-cli ? Jul 07 17:48:15 * lcuk pulls out a pipe and after scraping about with it ignites a barrel, kicks off his shoes and waits for his slippers to be brought to him Jul 07 17:48:49 how did you do all that while typing? Jul 07 17:48:50 * lcuk inhales deeply before sending a tux shaped ring billowing across the room Jul 07 17:49:11 i hired a temp today Jul 07 17:49:12 There must be a live WWE here Jul 07 17:49:39 shes quite good, called donna noble Jul 07 17:50:31 real teatime anyway, back in a bit Jul 07 17:51:07 * qwerty12_N800 's waiting for pizza from local takeaway Jul 07 17:51:26 what was the job description: "must know svn, how to light a pipe and how to bring slippers"? Jul 07 17:51:45 * lardman is waiting for pizza from local oven :) Jul 07 17:51:57 lardman, trying to replace the temp ? Jul 07 17:52:02 :) Jul 07 17:52:26 nah, I'm not blonde Jul 07 17:52:37 heh Jul 07 17:52:40 actually, she may not be either, we'll have to ask Jul 07 17:52:52 I'm not good with slippers either :p Jul 07 17:53:45 * qwerty12_N800 needs to get a new pair, mine ripped and i'm walking barefoot round the house :/ Jul 07 17:54:24 * lardman always walks barefoot, can't stand slippers Jul 07 17:54:26 take care of your stylus Jul 07 17:54:33 :) Jul 07 17:54:41 drawing pins are the real problem Jul 07 17:55:11 ouch , for me, the dodgy carpet on the stairs :/ Jul 07 17:55:34 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3414 Jul 07 17:57:09 using dd on the card's dev block file is probably a faster method of corruption Jul 07 17:57:45 qwerty12_N800, if you want to add a comment? Jul 07 17:58:03 i'm not entirely sure on it :) Jul 07 17:58:23 my dd syntax knowledge is lacking Jul 07 17:59:24 the stuff that handles mmc mounting is actually open source Jul 07 18:10:16 lardman, you are famous: http://funmeme.com/archive/2008/07/07/dont-take-your-husband-to-walmart.aspx Jul 07 18:10:34 and no, unfortunately shes not real nor blonde i still have to do it all myself Jul 07 18:17:12 grrr... for some reason my scratchbox apt isn't working correctly Jul 07 18:17:27 first, running check shows hundreds of unmet deps Jul 07 18:17:40 whereas apt-get check on my 810 is fine Jul 07 18:18:38 second, I copied over the sources.list(.d/*) and ran apt-get update, but sb apt still can't fine packages that are fine on the 810 Jul 07 18:19:14 any ideas? Jul 07 18:20:12 (the packages it can't find are in maemo-hackers chinook main, which coincidentally throws a GPG error during apt-get update Jul 07 18:20:30 but I assumed that would just mean they'd be unverified) Jul 07 18:24:30 you could try to clean apt cache (/var/cache/apt) first Jul 07 18:25:16 inside sb2? Jul 07 18:26:05 errr Jul 07 18:26:07 actually Jul 07 18:26:26 I think i got it to work, but now I have a different problem Jul 07 18:27:18 sb2 -m emulate apt-get install php5-dev Jul 07 18:27:18 ..... Jul 07 18:27:18 /bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory Jul 07 18:28:02 I don't get why this is so broken, I just setup my dev env by following the guide Jul 07 18:31:23 lcuk: lol Jul 07 18:43:39 hi all Jul 07 18:43:58 hi Jul 07 19:13:46 re Jul 07 19:14:17 Hey, Jaffa. Jul 07 19:22:16 who has nights where they feel "Meh!" Jul 07 19:22:26 Oooh, mee! Jul 07 19:22:44 lol i guess tongiht isnt one of yours Jul 07 19:24:33 theres nothin good on the internet to do (i finished the game i was playing) and im borrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrred Jul 07 19:25:08 lcuk: port another program. =o) Jul 07 19:25:16 port? Jul 07 19:26:14 i started last week moudling somethin in c++ - it wont be ready till ummmmm probably the summit Jul 07 19:26:22 but that doesnt help now ;) Jul 07 19:26:44 perhaps i need to work on a spell checker for irc Jul 07 19:27:26 GeneralAntilles, on your mac all text fields are spell checkable by default arent they - does your irc get the love from this feature? Jul 07 19:27:35 Yes Jul 07 19:27:49 ~lart steve jobs for having classy ideas Jul 07 19:27:49 * infobot drops a baby grand on steve jobs for having classy ideas Jul 07 19:31:12 lcuk, xchat for linux has a spell checker, dunno why it isn't present on the maemo version. Jul 07 19:31:29 Lack of libaspell installed? Jul 07 19:32:03 the problem is a bit more dire ;) im running windows when i make the most typos Jul 07 19:35:42 running windows is the dire situation Jul 07 19:36:52 toba, i dont agree at the moment, windows xp works very well for me and its fast. Jul 07 19:37:06 Bleh Jul 07 19:37:11 You just lack perspective. Jul 07 19:38:01 no i dont, linux feels "heavy" doing stuff, windows dont respond like i expect. same situation with the 810, but i had no alternative on 810 than to do something about it ;) Jul 07 19:38:46 sure, i could have found a window manager that suited, but time investment from xp didnt make it worth it. it just works and does what i want (on the whole) Jul 07 19:38:56 and your perspective for Linux is, what, vmware? Jul 07 19:39:33 no, the ubuntu laptop over there ^^^^ and the livecds ive installed in the past Jul 07 19:40:14 the laptop was great with xp but ever since i put ubuntu on it hasnt run as smoothly Jul 07 19:40:27 Sounds like a configuration issue. . . . Jul 07 19:40:43 very likely is gen, you have heard and seen just how crap with it all i am Jul 07 19:41:01 lcuk: if you're bored: http://wubi-installer.org/ Jul 07 19:41:05 * lcuk knows his limitations Jul 07 19:41:43 lol lbt, will it sit pretty with andlinux that ive got on here? * Jul 07 19:42:03 *note, i installed it, but it couldnt see the files i wanted easily so its not been used since Jul 07 19:42:04 probably :) Jul 07 19:42:34 but if you have a spare partition then a native install is best - and Ubuntu without question Jul 07 19:42:50 simply 'cos it's nice and the SDK suggests it Jul 07 19:43:33 hmmm, ive got my old c drive knocking around somewhere (migrated to larger drive, cloned and left the older space..) Jul 07 19:43:57 how do you start a chant of "go lcuk" on irc? Jul 07 19:44:03 lcuk, just out of question, if you've got a linux laptop, why not use that instead of andlinux? Jul 07 19:44:15 cos its slow Jul 07 19:44:46 skeen Jul 07 19:45:08 i need to buy preinstalled hardware designed for the purpose all nicely configured and ready to go, but i cant afford anything like that Jul 07 19:45:36 WHAT!!! Jul 07 19:45:48 that's *so* not true :D Jul 07 19:45:59 it's all about using odds+sods... Jul 07 19:46:38 lbt: Doing so also requires you to be fairly skilled in what you're doing. Jul 07 19:46:45 Particularly with respect to graphics drivers. Jul 07 19:46:47 i have been using odds and sods for years Jul 07 19:46:48 if you start the install I'll hang around Jul 07 19:47:00 and if you have any issues... Jul 07 19:47:10 The state of graphics drivers in Linux is so abysmal it's very, very easy for a non-expert to get things wrong. Jul 07 19:47:28 It's the number one complaint I've heard from people who tried to switch to Linux and gave up. Jul 07 19:47:33 we are back onto me needing an intern :) Jul 07 19:47:34 aw, come on, it's gotten SOO much better Jul 07 19:47:43 lcuk: that laptop runs graphics from liveCDs doesn't it Jul 07 19:47:49 more than half the time, ubuntu just works now days Jul 07 19:47:58 it grabs prop. drivers and all Jul 07 19:48:09 Maximander: "Half the time" is not really a very high bar to clear. Jul 07 19:48:17 everything does lbt, but it feels like im running maemo desktop ;) Jul 07 19:48:18 and if it doesn't - well, you did say you were bored... Jul 07 19:48:21 <||cw> derf: that's really only true of ATI drivers Jul 07 19:48:29 and it's alot better on newer hardware Jul 07 19:48:34 <||cw> nvidia drivers are a breeze Jul 07 19:48:44 and I think we can all say with a lot of confidence that you *won't* screw up your windows install Jul 07 19:48:49 ||cw: Again, if you know exactly what you're doing, maybe. Jul 07 19:48:59 hey - he has an N800 with irc Jul 07 19:49:04 nvidia is easy, intel works out of box (well, except HDMI) Jul 07 19:49:05 we're here... Jul 07 19:49:11 <||cw> derf: most modern distro's have a package for that enabled by default Jul 07 19:49:11 what more does he need? Jul 07 19:49:24 nvidia drivers..... ahhh my toshiba laptop decided to install nvidia default to the tv out and forced me to close x, drop to console reinitialize all the x confgi do binary editing on a file reestablish it all and reboot and hope for the best Jul 07 19:49:24 I've had plenty of problems with nVidia drivers myself, but then I do SLI and multiple screens and servers and lots of weird stuff. Jul 07 19:49:36 <||cw> intel's newer drivers are nice, can even get compiz going on an 845G Jul 07 19:50:00 derf: I run nvidia on my 3 myth boxes and dual-screen ati on my 2 desktops :) Jul 07 19:50:03 my desktop (nforce 680 with two 8600GT's SLi) was a piece of cake to setup Jul 07 19:50:14 although my ati is old tech Jul 07 19:50:30 lbt: Yes... all these things are _possible_. Jul 07 19:50:37 booted normally first time, apt-got the nvidia controls and checked the "sli" box Jul 07 19:50:46 That is not the same thing as being "easy" or "just working". Jul 07 19:50:55 here you go Jul 07 19:50:55 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=575832 Jul 07 19:50:58 derf: more to the point - we have a range of experience here if he hits snags :) Jul 07 19:51:37 oh lbt, i know theres a lot of experience here, i see boths sides, being both technical in some aspects and in others Jul 07 19:51:50 and not in others^ Jul 07 19:52:01 nah - I just meant that if you go for it then we can help... Jul 07 19:52:07 now as far as other things on linux, there's plenty that's broken (/me is trying to compile phpgtk for chinook, and is on about the 10th ./configure due to fsck'ed deps) Jul 07 19:52:27 <||cw> it's been a long time since nvidia drivers didn't "just work" Jul 07 19:52:51 the best thing to ever happen to linux is out of the box experience. the n8x0 and the eee have done more for linux than anything Jul 07 19:53:45 the best assistance you can give to someone is to help them put the OS they got on their computer when they bought it, its been tested and known working at that point, even if its win3.1 they will have a better experience with that than tryign to use it for something else Jul 07 19:54:15 uh, I'd say the best thing to happen to linux is uptake in the server market, where the alternatives are weak, and having a free option lowers the barriers to entry for web2.0-ish ventures Jul 07 19:54:19 *unless you know what you are doing and can cure everything Jul 07 19:54:25 even trying to install win3.11 wfw? Jul 07 19:54:39 lcuk: yeah - but you're bored Jul 07 19:54:45 JFDI Jul 07 19:54:51 Maximander: That happened in 1998. Jul 07 19:54:53 thats a damned good point, ill just vape the partition Jul 07 19:54:56 brb Jul 07 19:54:58 yup Jul 07 19:55:41 derf: yeah, and it's still the best thing to happen... Jul 07 19:55:42 Maximander, but noone knows that they are there - my boss tried to tell me linux will never get anywhere - i looked around the room at our router, i pinged our webserver - i connected to get email... Jul 07 19:56:44 your boss needs to get his head out of his ass Jul 07 19:56:59 lcuk: yeah, and microsoft's Get the Facts isn't helping, nor is the fact the most schools IT or CS programs are funded my MS to get the FUD into the classroom, but still, we see widespread FOSS adoption, even in govt's Jul 07 19:57:42 <||cw> especially in government Jul 07 19:57:59 the guy who bitched at me today about open source was using firefox at the time Jul 07 19:58:03 sure, consumer devices that "just work" are great for some awareness, but i think awareness among the geek crowd is more important, as they have to actually make decisions, commit patches, etc Jul 07 19:58:17 we dont make decisions Jul 07 19:58:26 lcuk: so is the partition gone already? Jul 07 19:58:59 im just deleting the whole contents of the drive now, its in program files at the moment (god i hope this is the correct one...) Jul 07 19:59:11 Well. Personally, I hear friends telling me getting tired of doing Windows support for people and installing Linux all the time. So much that I now believe Linux is actually easier than Windows. Jul 07 19:59:26 The problem is for the people who has already learnt to master Windows. Jul 07 19:59:30 oh, is this a wubi install? Jul 07 19:59:44 But those that haven't yet, might actually be better off with Linux. Jul 07 20:00:24 what is a good open source VoIP software, I just got an n800 and would like to see if I can migrate to soley using it for making calls Jul 07 20:00:39 Veggen: Most people don't want to have to "master" their OS. Jul 07 20:00:44 derf: sure. Jul 07 20:00:54 derf: And for those, Linux is as good as Windows. Jul 07 20:01:13 weaklings, I say, jk, well sort of Jul 07 20:01:33 derf: They'll rely on friends for all the technical stuff anyhow, and if you as a Linux user are the friend they rely on, then you (and consequently, they) are better off with Linux. Jul 07 20:01:33 lcuk: b4 we start - what hardware are we talking here - a laptop with a single hdd and a cdrom/dvd? Simple install of XP? or any funnies like it already has a custom bootloader? Jul 07 20:02:12 yigal: in Diablo, SIP support is included. Jul 07 20:02:33 WTF - securom has evil undeletable files Jul 07 20:02:34 ЃϵϳЅЂϿϽϯІχϯπρϴϱЄϱЃϵϳЅ Jul 07 20:03:01 lbt, desktop with nvidia mobo + amb chip + nvidia gfx, its stable in most livecds (just sluggish) Jul 07 20:03:16 multi hard drive Jul 07 20:03:33 is one going to be used for ubuntu? Jul 07 20:03:42 'cos there is no need to erase it Jul 07 20:03:43 one partition yer Jul 07 20:03:54 and you know which partition? Jul 07 20:03:57 i just need to be sure first that Jul 07 20:04:30 yer, before doing anything i cleanup :) a tidy home and all that Jul 07 20:05:02 Since I got Garmin mapsource to run under wine, I got rid of every last windows dependence at home, btw. Jul 07 20:05:09 it will work, i dont doubt it Jul 07 20:05:13 Have no need for it. For anything. Jul 07 20:05:47 Veggen: excuse me I should ask then open source SIP/VoIP clients, is this more precise/accurate a question Jul 07 20:05:49 Veggen: cool :) Jul 07 20:05:59 ? Jul 07 20:06:05 Twinkle? Jul 07 20:06:07 Veggen: congratulations Jul 07 20:06:23 Twinkle is OSS SIP client. Jul 07 20:06:51 runs against asterisk Jul 07 20:07:11 yigal: trust me, for people that's bought their share of things they just want to work with their computer and discover that the administrative software is windows-only, that *is* quite a big thing. Jul 07 20:07:15 (I just bought a Digium card for 10 - so SIP/lanline soon :) ) Jul 07 20:07:52 Veggen: I was expecting the N800 flasher to need windows... Jul 07 20:07:58 oh wait... Jul 07 20:08:00 yigal: And there's actually quite a few of us that's primarily Linux users for quite some time, but have this *one* thing we need that Windows install for. Jul 07 20:08:08 lbt: sounds good, Twinkle then it is Jul 07 20:08:24 Veggen: yes, I know Jul 07 20:08:27 cool - keep me informed - I'd love to see that on the N800 Jul 07 20:08:29 lbt: I went for a VOIP-provider that provides me with a iax2 connection. Jul 07 20:08:54 I went ukfsn.org Jul 07 20:09:12 and FWD (free world dialup) Jul 07 20:09:14 Veggen: I have a blackberry, I wish I didn't and I can't do an OS upgrade without windows, just terrible Jul 07 20:09:19 does the latest released mplayer support alsa? Jul 07 20:09:28 but, tbh, I've never really spent time getting it going Jul 07 20:09:47 qwerty12_N800: for about 3 years+ Jul 07 20:10:05 or do you mean on the NIT? Jul 07 20:10:24 no, i mean the maemo port, i've been hearing that the latest breaks a2dp etc. just not sure Jul 07 20:10:41 yes, sorry for not being clear Jul 07 20:10:47 lbt, wubi by default creates an xGB image file doesnt it (like vmware) Jul 07 20:11:24 yes - but we won't be using wubi Jul 07 20:11:30 not if you have a partition Jul 07 20:11:40 if it does, i'll have to load up the scratchbox :/ Jul 07 20:11:49 Veggen: but now with the n800 and wifi connection I may not have to deal with it, or T-mobile my provider for much longer Jul 07 20:12:48 lbt :) one step at a time, if im happy with this install ill vape and build as a partition - im not gonna risk it crashing down around me and ive got 60gb free and available now i deleted it all Jul 07 20:13:27 err Jul 07 20:13:56 if you have a blank partition then you're making life much harder by not just using it... Jul 07 20:14:03 if it's not blank though Jul 07 20:14:07 then fair enough Jul 07 20:14:22 it wasnt blank when i started but its nice and clean now Jul 07 20:14:40 then just do a partition install Jul 07 20:14:42 but i dont wanna rock the boat with partition tables and bootstraps Jul 07 20:15:00 you already will Jul 07 20:15:14 you won't change the part table Jul 07 20:15:41 what bootloader are you using? Jul 07 20:15:45 XP std Jul 07 20:15:46 ok, ill cancel this and find my dvd Jul 07 20:15:57 ummmmm yeah Jul 07 20:16:02 i think anyway Jul 07 20:16:07 what we'll do is install linux to p2 Jul 07 20:16:18 install grub (bootloader) to p2 Jul 07 20:16:27 and chainload from the XP bootloader Jul 07 20:16:29 no, p1 Jul 07 20:16:41 I was guessing :) Jul 07 20:17:50 lcuk save me Jul 07 20:17:56 what repository is it i need? Jul 07 20:18:17 hd0_ide0[ [60gb blank] , [131gb data] ] hd1_ide1[ [250gb data] ] hd2_ata0[ [200gb system] ] Jul 07 20:18:52 ok Jul 07 20:18:54 tell me how i list my repos and ill give it you Jul 07 20:20:44 http://repository.maemo.org chinook free non-free Jul 07 20:20:49 i think lemme check Jul 07 20:21:12 b4 you leave windows - edit your boot.ini Jul 07 20:21:43 hmm, i have that one lcuk Jul 07 20:22:14 in fact i installed a few dev/buildmake packages, but the make command complained of a missing "build" file Jul 07 20:22:18 apt-cache search gcc displays what Jul 07 20:22:44 does gcc work? Jul 07 20:24:11 it all depends on what your makefile needs to do the job Jul 07 20:24:33 im not able to build everything, but compiling and linking and using dev libraries works well Jul 07 20:24:57 anybody put pulseaudio to work on the platform ? Jul 07 20:25:07 ie: i tried to build git on my 810 - it got partway through but then failed needing perl Jul 07 20:25:28 ok, well ive got a fresh OS atm, so need to reinstall the stuff Jul 07 20:25:43 Greh. And I was thinking about porting git to the NITs, too. =o Jul 07 20:25:48 If it needs perl, that's going to suck. Jul 07 20:26:06 texel: and here's one I prepared earlier... Jul 07 20:26:08 no, git build needed perl - the stuff i do doesnt so it works well Jul 07 20:26:18 i dont know what else might be required for other things Jul 07 20:26:22 * lcuk waves his magic wand Jul 07 20:26:31 Er, perl is bundled. . . . Jul 07 20:26:41 Eh? Jul 07 20:27:12 "Eh?" eh? Jul 07 20:27:46 Hm. Looks like a minimal perl install, though. Jul 07 20:27:49 Ie: perldb is missing. Jul 07 20:27:57 ok, sorry perl failed with lots of perl errors Jul 07 20:28:05 GeneralAntilles: the git build uses perl (and other stuff) to generate a *lot* of docs... takes forever Jul 07 20:28:08 Modules aren't there, but that's different to porting perl itself Jul 07 20:28:09 Nokia-N810-50-2:/media/mmc1/old/git-1.5.6# make Jul 07 20:28:09 SUBDIR perl Jul 07 20:28:09 /usr/bin/perl Makefile.PL PREFIX='/usr/local' Jul 07 20:28:09 Can't locate ExtUtils/MakeMaker.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/ lib/perl/5.8.3 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.3 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/ lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at Makefile.PL line 1. Jul 07 20:28:11 BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at Makefile.PL line 1. Jul 07 20:28:13 make[1]: *** [perl.mak] Error 2 Jul 07 20:28:15 make: *** [perl/perl.mak] Error 2 Jul 07 20:28:17 * lcuk sorry :$ Jul 07 20:28:21 Ahh. Jul 07 20:28:23 MakeMaker. Jul 07 20:28:25 And ExtUtils. Jul 07 20:28:28 Yeah, those are pretty heavy. Jul 07 20:28:36 I suspect editing the Makefile and removing the docs dependency would fix it... Jul 07 20:28:42 Most likely. Jul 07 20:29:07 lbt :) which was why i asked a serious developer with experience of the issues which might arise Jul 07 20:29:12 :D Jul 07 20:29:31 and then got a binary tarball in the email... Jul 07 20:29:39 is that all OK BTW? Jul 07 20:29:47 * lcuk is thankful for having git now and thinks he will use it very near future possibly for something it wasnt intended but thats tbc Jul 07 20:30:12 I've not bothered packaging it as I didn't think anyone else was nuts enough to use git on the NIT itself! Jul 07 20:30:14 yer i got it running and managed to commit and extract and compare and stuff :) Jul 07 20:30:31 lbt: erm... git is probably the best scm for the NIT, tbh. Jul 07 20:30:33 It's very lightweight. Jul 07 20:30:49 oh yes - that's why I suggested it... Jul 07 20:30:55 Personally, I use git to manage the history of anything I work with. Jul 07 20:30:57 yer it was quicker than svn Jul 07 20:30:59 but who does dev *on* the nit... Jul 07 20:31:07 Having it on the N810 would be SO much better for managing what I edit there. Jul 07 20:31:09 lbt, a lot of people. Jul 07 20:31:10 however, i havent compared like for like using ondemand cpu Jul 07 20:31:19 (I know...) Jul 07 20:31:28 (sad puppies) Jul 07 20:31:38 I would love to do dev on the N810, but I'm afraid I'm not quite that good yet. =o) Jul 07 20:31:41 performance cpu runs EVERYTHING faster - compiling in less than a minute, numpty running quick internet even a bit better Jul 07 20:31:52 Khertan's put together a lot of good tools for it. Jul 07 20:32:06 GeneralAntilles: do they work for Diablo? =o) Jul 07 20:32:12 Why wouldn't they? Jul 07 20:32:18 * texel shrugs Jul 07 20:32:24 texel, i suck compared to the guys in here, my skills are way off out the window and far away Jul 07 20:32:31 Not sure how much of the underpinnings in Diablo has changed. Jul 07 20:32:33 Packaging is still a little funky Jul 07 20:32:38 libssl Jul 07 20:32:40 For all I know, the ABI could probably have changed since chinook. =op Jul 07 20:32:51 That's the extent of the major library changes Jul 07 20:33:05 Ah. Well, that explains quite a bit, then. =o) Jul 07 20:33:08 and thats because of the upstream problem isnt it Jul 07 20:33:22 s/upstream/debian/ ? Jul 07 20:33:23 No Jul 07 20:33:34 That's to do with WiMAX, if anything. Jul 07 20:33:45 Maemo was not affected by the Debian issues. Jul 07 20:33:50 yer, didnt one of the devs fuckup ssl by leaving a default salt in or something Jul 07 20:34:21 Removed an unassigned variable warning by assigning it to 0. Fixed the warning, reduced the security. Jul 07 20:34:22 lcuk: no, the debian maintainer added a patch to openssl to "fix" a bug, but it actually severely restricted the source of entropy that openssl used. Jul 07 20:34:41 Of course, there's a good argument that if the unassignment was meaningful it should've been commented. Jul 07 20:34:42 from my reading the blame wasn't on one guy Jul 07 20:35:03 Jaffa: hehe -- true, but wow the openssl code base is nasty. O.o Jul 07 20:35:05 good writeup on LWN if you care Jul 07 20:35:18 thanks for the clarification, but isnt that why ssl changed? Jul 07 20:35:27 No. Jul 07 20:35:33 so that bug remains? Jul 07 20:35:36 No. Jul 07 20:35:41 Maemo was not affected. Jul 07 20:35:59 i thought we were downstream from deb? Jul 07 20:36:11 Downstream, and very slow. Jul 07 20:36:17 ROFL Jul 07 20:36:19 Slow enough, apparently. Jul 07 20:36:30 We are, the libssl version affected was later then the one bundled. Jul 07 20:36:31 lol so slow we hadnt even picked up the bug in the first place Jul 07 20:36:35 ^ Jul 07 20:36:45 heh, that rocks Jul 07 20:37:00 security by senility Jul 07 20:37:01 so how's the install going? Jul 07 20:37:09 Jul 07 20:37:18 well if i put a proper cd in ive gotta close this and drop off the internet Jul 07 20:37:28 and if it fecks up i have no way of getting back on the internet Jul 07 20:37:32 I thought you irced on the nit? Jul 07 20:37:55 i stopped wubi cos you said not to do it that way Jul 07 20:38:00 yer i do Jul 07 20:38:06 so you could chat during the install? Jul 07 20:38:23 but the only wireless adapter in the house just happens to be plugged into this computer Jul 07 20:38:29 ah... Jul 07 20:38:33 * texel stabs the Maemo home applet resize control savagely Jul 07 20:38:55 texel, just pretend to do something else (like put it in your pocket) and it will resize for you Jul 07 20:39:05 you have to catch it unawares - it has to think you arent looking Jul 07 20:39:10 Haha Jul 07 20:39:26 Reminds me of that old joke video by Hunter Cressle about the Macintosh. =o) Jul 07 20:39:37 * GeneralAntilles shakes his head at lcuk's insistence on using ad-hoc. Jul 07 20:40:02 I still don't get why they haven't fixed that horrible interface. Jul 07 20:40:13 It's probably the worst piece in the whole Maemo platform. =o( Jul 07 20:40:15 GeneralAntilles, :) if i had spare money to buy alternative wireless i would. i *know* its a problem but wtf can i do without any money? Jul 07 20:40:30 Cut down on 2 cigarettes a day. Jul 07 20:40:35 You'll be set in a couple weeks. :P Jul 07 20:40:43 ha Jul 07 20:40:44 i spend less than 2 a week on cigs Jul 07 20:40:50 5 weeks Jul 07 20:40:56 and i havent actually bought a packet now for nearly 2 months Jul 07 20:41:10 I just bought an ADSL wifi router from digidave.co.uk for 10 shipped... Jul 07 20:41:11 OK, what other vices can we curtail? :D Jul 07 20:41:25 food Jul 07 20:41:34 GeneralAntilles, we have so little money in this house its not a joke :) Jul 07 20:41:57 meter ran out... Jul 07 20:42:05 Jul 07 20:42:49 i remember the meter i had where i had to go to the paypoint with the meters key >.< Jul 07 20:43:15 I had a coin-op once... Jul 07 20:47:34 qwerty12_N800 ive just left a student house with one of those :( Jul 07 20:48:17 anyone reading slashdot here on n8x0 ? Jul 07 20:49:09 :(, i'd hate going to w.yorkshire with that meter, because i'd know the electric would be gone when i came back >.< Jul 07 20:49:21 don't you think browsing is terribly slow ? Jul 07 20:49:32 Slashdot is fine here. Jul 07 20:49:36 slashdot effect Jul 07 20:49:42 zomming in takes several seconds Jul 07 20:50:35 ok Jul 07 20:51:18 It seems fine here as well, does the zoom thing happen for you on other websites as well? Jul 07 20:51:26 "zoom thing"? Jul 07 20:51:39 16:47:04 < gourdin> zomming in takes several seconds Jul 07 20:51:42 * Raytray shrugs. Jul 07 20:51:50 Oh Jul 07 20:51:53 I never zoom Jul 07 20:52:12 GeneralAntilles: are you a cyborg ? :) Jul 07 20:52:18 No Jul 07 20:52:21 I'm just not blind Jul 07 20:52:31 ok Jul 07 20:52:43 Zooming takes about 2 seconds here Jul 07 20:52:44 Normal Jul 07 20:52:49 what is the matter with you Jul 07 20:52:49 he is blind, he is just selective about what he reads. Jul 07 20:52:52 It's not really an easy process. Jul 07 20:53:28 for the curious: this is how librsvg renders the osm-symbols: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/osm/symbols.png Jul 07 20:54:10 eh. sorry. Wrong channel :) Jul 07 20:54:41 i m not blind either GeneralAntilles Jul 07 20:55:18 and it takes 6 seconds here Jul 07 20:55:48 roughly Jul 07 20:56:09 i find this a bit longm Jul 07 20:56:19 and sorry if i need to zoom Jul 07 20:57:12 Eh, something could be broken Jul 07 20:57:16 6 seconds sounds a bit long Jul 07 20:57:19 AdBlock installed? Jul 07 20:57:24 Virtual memory enabled? Jul 07 20:57:26 yep Jul 07 20:57:29 yep Jul 07 20:57:30 gourdin: slashdot uses a fairly complex CSS setup Jul 07 20:58:02 AdBlock might do it. Jul 07 20:58:10 It's a pretty crappy plugin Jul 07 20:58:14 Slows the browser WAY down. Jul 07 20:58:19 hmmmm Jul 07 20:58:22 CSS + adblocking CSS is the way to go. Jul 07 20:58:42 ok, i'll try disabling this plugin Jul 07 20:58:45 filter on your router if possible Jul 07 20:59:08 GeneralAntilles: addblocking css ? Jul 07 21:00:35 Right Jul 07 21:01:27 if you asked me I'd say privoxy is the way to go Jul 07 21:01:32 without add block, fresh browser start, 15sec to zoom to 120% Jul 07 21:01:47 I've had crashing issues with privoxy in the past. Jul 07 21:02:01 i got the "fit width" option enabled Jul 07 21:02:06 Oh, pfft Jul 07 21:02:08 Yeah Jul 07 21:02:10 Don't do that. Jul 07 21:02:17 That's the "break the browser" option. Jul 07 21:02:45 :)) Jul 07 21:02:53 this is it Jul 07 21:03:18 somehow I ended up running neither privoxy or adblock on the device. I'm running privoxy on home router box, but since I'm not aware of any practical way to make the device use it as proxy only when I'm home, the browser in the device goes unfiltered. Jul 07 21:03:35 unfortunatly, some site need this option :/ Jul 07 21:03:43 No they don't. Jul 07 21:03:47 That option doesn't work. Jul 07 21:03:48 Period. Jul 07 21:04:00 It's broken and really should've been removed. Jul 07 21:05:23 http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/2008/02/nokia-n800-n810-web-pages-slow-and.html Jul 07 21:12:59 Hm. So what about firewalls? Jul 07 21:13:12 Do we have a good solution to use iptables on the NITs at the moment? Jul 07 21:17:33 I think the question really is do you need one Jul 07 21:17:40 http://www.popularmechanics.com/ Jul 07 21:17:50 for example Jul 07 21:18:09 without add block nor "fit width" Jul 07 21:18:25 * texel sighs Jul 07 21:18:35 So, where on earth is the scratchbox configuration file for a target? Jul 07 21:19:05 is pretty painfull to surf : scrolls lag a lot Jul 07 21:19:29 texel, /scratchbox/users/$USER/targets/$TARGET.config Jul 07 21:19:38 hi Jul 07 21:19:41 wnd: awesome. Thanks. Jul 07 21:21:19 Scrolls just fine here, gourdin. :\ Jul 07 21:21:45 texel: I was wondering about iptables t'other day too Jul 07 21:21:46 Zooming is slow Jul 07 21:21:49 but scroll is fine. Jul 07 21:22:57 i need to put the text "aaa" in the file abc.txt, can I do this with cat? or what other command do I use? Jul 07 21:23:28 echo aaa >> abc.txt Jul 07 21:23:39 thanks :-) Jul 07 21:24:42 vittu t irc on kyll ihan liian lagisa nytait Jul 07 21:25:02 Hm. Do we have SDL? O.o Jul 07 21:25:19 weird letters. Jul 07 21:25:27 texel, yes. Jul 07 21:25:31 Coolio. Jul 07 21:25:38 Then porting POWDER will be easy, too. =o) Jul 07 21:26:33 anyone knows how to use libmacspoof? Jul 07 21:29:27 Whoa. Jul 07 21:29:30 kanatest is /easy/. Jul 07 21:30:54 yeah it is Jul 07 21:30:58 try kdrill :-) Jul 07 21:31:06 No, I mean to port that is. =op Jul 07 21:31:15 * wnd grins Jul 07 21:31:16 dpkg-buildpackage -b, and that's it. =op Jul 07 21:31:47 unless you want to hildonise it Jul 07 21:31:52 I'd think Jul 07 21:32:34 Right. Jul 07 21:32:38 But there's next to nothing to hildonize. Jul 07 21:33:12 basically just the menu Jul 07 21:33:36 and if you want to do it right, state saving and restoring Jul 07 21:33:45 Hm. Jul 07 21:33:46 Okay. Jul 07 21:33:49 Well, we'll see. Jul 07 21:33:54 Right now, Xephyr is misbehaving. =o( Jul 07 21:34:21 actually, did the latest version of kanatest already allow resuming last "game"? Jul 07 21:34:39 No idea. Jul 07 21:34:51 I'm just trying to recompile the one in Ubuntu Hardy at the moment. Jul 07 21:36:02 There we go. Jul 07 21:36:46 texel: mud can help with such things muchly (including the various Maemoisms: http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/ ) Jul 07 21:37:34 Jaffa: yeah, I was considering using that to help with some of it. Jul 07 21:38:28 texel: I'm looking at improving it to work with the autobuilder even better, and improve the patch management by possibly using quilt, and help with automated signing/upload: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jaffa/mud_design Jul 07 21:38:35 Bwahaha. Jul 07 21:38:39 Awesome. Jul 07 21:38:46 It runs, but the fonts are crap. =op Jul 07 21:38:49 So I have to fix that. =o) Jul 07 21:39:50 NIce. Jul 07 21:40:04 Jaffa: looks good, but I'll have to spend more than just a fleeting moment looking that over. =o) Jul 07 21:41:09 Oooh. It even comes with a desktop file. Jul 07 21:41:51 Needs some hacking, though. Jul 07 21:41:55 Random question: Jul 07 21:42:19 Why did the Nokia guys decide to do crazy stuff by stuffing the icon image into the desktop file as a base64 encoded mess? =op Jul 07 21:42:26 Especially when the files are much easier to deal with? Jul 07 21:42:36 texel: indeed, mud helps there :) Jul 07 21:42:42 Heh Jul 07 21:43:20 Stick a PNG file in a folder and it gets encoded and stuffed in automagically. Next feechur on my list is also auto-installing icons for the app menu into the right place Jul 07 21:45:52 Hrm. Jul 07 21:46:03 "We could not read lowmem page stats." and it still refuses to launch. Jul 07 21:46:04 Greh. Jul 07 21:46:18 Jaffa: so is MUD just a script or program I run? Jul 07 21:50:18 texel: it's a Perl app which helps re-package sources; so it's something you use to help build your packages (both binary for testing and source for uploading to the extras autobuilder) Jul 07 21:50:36 Jaffa: looks /very/ nice now that I spent more than a fleeting moment looking at it. =o) Jul 07 21:53:01 question: how do I replace the text "abc" from the file file1.txt with the content of the file file2.txt Jul 07 21:54:03 ion_cu_vaca, "introduction to bash" on google might be a good starting point for you. ;) Jul 07 21:54:28 but, "cat file2.txt > file1.txt" Jul 07 21:56:27 you can also just "cp file2.txt file1.txt"... Jul 07 21:56:59 GeneralAntilles, that will concatenate the two files... i want to replace the the text "abc" with the text from the file2.txt Jul 07 21:57:31 ion: hmm. sed is your friend here. Jul 07 21:57:44 ion: is the file2.txt potentially large? Jul 07 21:58:20 I saw the android port to NIT on Reddit today Jul 07 21:58:53 ion_cu_vaca, did you try the command I gave you? Jul 07 21:58:58 It does exactly what you asked for. Jul 07 21:59:14 Ah, right Jul 07 21:59:16 Nevermind Jul 07 21:59:29 file1.txt contains other information besides abc, right? Jul 07 22:00:25 yes Jul 07 22:00:28 what about this? Jul 07 22:00:29 replace abc $(cat file1.txt) file2.txt file2.new Jul 07 22:00:43 sed is your friend. Jul 07 22:00:44 (I found this: replace OLD-STRING NEW-STRING OUTPUT-FILE) Jul 07 22:02:28 Hrm. Jul 07 22:02:38 Do we /have/ to register a service with DBUS to launch an app? Jul 07 22:05:30 No. Jul 07 22:08:00 Bah, the logs URL isn't in the topic anymore Jul 07 22:08:29 Hmf. Jul 07 22:08:35 Well, I can't get it to start via the apps menu. Jul 07 22:08:43 But I can run it directly via command line. Jul 07 22:08:48 ~maemo-logs Jul 07 22:08:50 well, maemo-logs is IRC channels are logged at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog Jul 07 22:09:00 * Jaffa JFGIed it. Jul 07 22:09:07 Woo! Jul 07 22:09:30 * texel gives mud-builder a try Jul 07 22:10:36 Accomodation booked for the summit :) Jul 07 22:11:54 hm.. is there a way to force the fetching of the agps data from the supl server? Jul 07 22:22:15 evening all Jul 07 22:22:24 texel: I'm bedding soon, but if you have any mud problems, give me a shout either here; via email or through the mailing list. Jul 07 22:22:28 lardman: evenin' Jul 07 22:22:36 hi Jaffa Jul 07 22:33:24 Mm. Jul 07 22:34:20 Jaffa: "dpkg-source: error: per-package paragraph 2 in control info file is missing Package line" Jul 07 22:34:52 While it was attempting to do a "mud get kanatest" Jul 07 22:35:40 Ran into a fetch for autotools-dev Jul 07 22:35:49 Fun. Jul 07 22:36:04 Can you email me your package.xml? I *really* need to sleep; andrew@bleb.org Jul 07 22:36:12 Jaffa: just sleep. =o) Jul 07 22:36:29 g'night Jul 07 22:36:46 Jaffa: nothing special with the package.xml -- it's the same as what's listed for the creating a new package, just with 'cal' substuted with 'kanatest'. Jul 07 22:36:55 G'night. =o) Jul 07 22:36:58 night Jaffa Jul 07 22:37:45 * lardman wonders what to do first, vfp sbc encoder or some DSP intrinsic tweaks to the DSP fixed point one Jul 07 22:38:20 is there a good time tracking application for maemo? Jul 07 22:39:14 there's a GPE app, not sure of the name off the top of my head Jul 07 22:40:05 * Toba looks around Jul 07 22:40:41 http://linuxtogo.org/gpe-applications-for-maemo-4.0-chinook Jul 07 22:40:48 GPE-Timesheet Jul 07 22:41:07 not sure which repo you'd find it in Jul 07 22:41:29 http://www.cobb.uk.net/NokiaIT/index.html Jul 07 22:41:32 silly me Jul 07 22:41:43 hth Jul 07 22:42:03 I wish I had a chance to go to linuxtag Jul 07 22:42:25 'twas good, especially to chat to people face-to-face Jul 07 22:42:47 I'm sure Jul 07 22:44:56 * lardman still has problems relating IRC nicks, email addresses & faces though :))) Jul 07 22:46:33 heh Jul 07 22:46:36 i'm pretty used to that concept Jul 07 22:53:04 How long should it normally take when plugging a n810 in to charge for the very first time for something to appear on the screen showing it's charging ? Mine's been plugged in for 15 minutes with nothing showing up and I'm starting to worry :) Jul 07 22:53:05 hi Jul 07 22:53:23 GreyFoxx, sure your charger is powered/working? Jul 07 22:53:33 hi Ryan Jul 07 22:53:35 It'll show an indication that it's charging as soon as you plug it in. Jul 07 22:53:36 GreyFoxx: uhm.... it should appear suddenly Jul 07 22:53:40 * GeneralAntilles pokes Simon with a stick. Jul 07 22:53:48 General: The charger itself is warming up, so I can only assume it's working Jul 07 22:54:08 luckily Simon has just been to Aikido, so pokes back with a bokken Jul 07 22:54:14 Try unplugging it and replugging it? Jul 07 22:54:14 Andy: :/ Jul 07 22:54:19 General: Yeah Jul 07 22:54:24 Even different outlets Jul 07 22:54:42 Reboot the N810? Jul 07 22:54:46 I'm assuming it's powered on? Jul 07 22:54:57 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=200401&posted=1#post200401 Man, that was pretty freaking lame.. Jul 07 22:55:09 General. I took it out of the box, put in the battery and plugged it in Jul 07 22:55:20 pressing and holding the power butter for 3 or 4 seconds seems to have no effect Jul 07 22:55:31 Hrm Jul 07 22:55:33 New unit? Jul 07 22:55:34 * Grackle had the package boxed up and ready to go, then gets an email to the effect of "lol just kidding, it's going on ebay" Jul 07 22:55:43 General: Yup, just arrived this afternoon Jul 07 22:55:59 N810 . . . so shouldn't be an OMAP timing issue. Jul 07 22:56:16 Hmmm If I plug in the USB cable, and press the power butten the PC sees a new device Jul 07 22:56:21 'least, I've never heard of the OMAP timing issue affecting N810s Jul 07 22:56:32 Alright, try this. Jul 07 22:56:40 Unplug it from USB and the charger. Jul 07 22:56:46 k Jul 07 22:56:47 Take the battery out for a few seconds Jul 07 22:56:55 put the battery back in Jul 07 22:56:57 then try to power it on. Jul 07 22:57:39 GeneralAntilles: hrw had a timing issue with an N810 didn't he; there was that kernel-only release just before Diablo iirc Jul 07 22:57:57 42-19 was a kernel-only release. Jul 07 22:57:57 Just tried that, held the power button for a count of 10 and still nothing :/ Jul 07 22:58:00 s/kernel/bootloader Jul 07 22:58:41 The bootloader issue was 51-3 Jul 07 22:58:44 plugged back in the usb cable and the PC sees it Jul 07 22:58:52 Hrm, that's really weird Jul 07 22:58:58 so it appears to be coming on but nothing on the screen Jul 07 22:59:04 The battery should have enough charge to do something, Li-ion batteries are pre-conditioned afaik Jul 07 22:59:06 that or the brightness is so low I can't make it out Jul 07 22:59:07 GreyFoxx, does it mount any cards? Jul 07 22:59:32 ah, didn't see that, /me goes back to sbc :) Jul 07 22:59:34 Well, holding it under a lamp should show you something if there's actually something on screen to be seen. Jul 07 22:59:35 I'm plugging into my wife's windows laptops Jul 07 22:59:48 I'llk plug it into a linux box and see if it shows up as usb drives Jul 07 23:00:38 It should mount on Windows, too, if it's going to mount. Jul 07 23:01:00 Do I need install any drivers under windows first? Jul 07 23:01:10 Nope Jul 07 23:01:17 It'll mount just like a USB flash drive. Jul 07 23:01:25 It's asking me to search for drivers for it Jul 07 23:01:27 (XP) Jul 07 23:01:35 that means its in flash mode IMO? Jul 07 23:01:53 sounds like it Jul 07 23:01:54 and I don"t currently have micro/mini sd cards in it Jul 07 23:01:56 IE, it connected as a communication device, not storage Jul 07 23:02:06 GreyFoxx: oh. That explains. Jul 07 23:02:08 Well, it has a built-in 2gb card that it will mount. Jul 07 23:02:34 GeneralAntilles: ...unless you have enabled swap? Jul 07 23:02:48 If it's new from factory, swap wont be enabled. Jul 07 23:02:51 Ok, so it sounds like I need to find something to flash it with ? Jul 07 23:03:02 GreyFoxx: well, no Jul 07 23:03:12 if nothing is coming up on the screen... Jul 07 23:03:38 I'm just afraid I'll have to ship it back and wait for a replacement and it's brand new :) Jul 07 23:03:51 Well, it couldn't hurt too badly to try and flash. Jul 07 23:04:17 Got a document or anything I can follow to do that with no screen needed ?:) Jul 07 23:04:24 https://wiki.maemo.org/Upgrading_tablet_OS Jul 07 23:04:28 Linux or Windows Jul 07 23:04:31 Both will work Jul 07 23:04:35 for me the screen comes on even in the flash mode (if that's what you go to to update the firmware, by holding down the swap button) Jul 07 23:04:36 sweet, thanks Jul 07 23:04:38 can I add CFLAGS to a debian rules file? Jul 07 23:05:50 or rather, how do I propagate CFLAGS? Jul 07 23:05:56 GreyFoxx, if flashing doesn't do anything (which I expect it wont), then my next recommendation is to leave it on the charger overnight (or for the next few hours) and see if anything changes. Jul 07 23:06:12 k Jul 07 23:06:35 probably pull the battery first, then put it back in and don't bother trying to switch it back on Jul 07 23:06:50 just in case the flashing mode disables charging or something silly Jul 07 23:09:00 fyi Just sticking CFLAGS = "blah" in there does work Jul 07 23:09:51 Any reason I shouldn't grab the latest release ? Jul 07 23:10:35 Nope. Jul 07 23:14:06 argh, why does it always have to be difficult? Jul 07 23:14:27 The world is conspiring against you, lardman. :P Jul 07 23:14:38 :) Jul 07 23:14:48 ah well, always look on the bright side & all that! Jul 07 23:15:22 bed time, I'll leave vfp sbc until the morrow Jul 07 23:15:26 night all Jul 07 23:15:27 'night. :) Jul 07 23:32:27 night Jul 07 23:32:49 GreyFoxx, you have checked you have removed any sticker things from the battery terminals havent you Jul 07 23:32:54 night lbt Jul 07 23:33:26 lcuk, there aren't any sticker things on the battery terminals. Jul 07 23:35:38 Igh Jul 07 23:35:42 You broke Colloquy, lcuk. :P Jul 07 23:36:07 yer, blame it on me :P Jul 07 23:36:23 Colloquy needs an update Jul 07 23:36:32 I like how new messages randomly cause it to stop redrawing windows. Jul 08 00:18:33 Well poop. It successfully flashed but no screen activity Jul 08 00:18:42 * jott slaps his isp Jul 08 00:18:49 and now I see nothing in windows at all when I turn it on Jul 08 00:19:00 Looks like this will be going back tomorrow :/ Jul 08 00:20:02 :( Jul 08 00:20:12 GreyFoxx, I know one other person who had display connector issues. Just bad luck. :( Jul 08 00:20:38 yeah. Oh well, my birthday isn't for another week or so anyway Jul 08 00:20:43 this was an early gift from my mom Jul 08 00:21:08 she was excited to finally be able to buy me a geek toy since normally she has no idea what to get me heh Jul 08 00:37:46 anybody thinking of flying to the USA? Jul 08 00:38:02 http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/aviation-security/2008/Jul/01/want-some-torture-with-your-peanuts/ A senior government official with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has expressed great interest in a so-called safety bracelet that would serve as a... TASER... to be worn by all airline passengers. Jul 08 00:38:58 pupnik: eh?! Jul 08 00:41:17 texel: just goes to illustrate their attitude towards us. We're cattle to them. Jul 08 00:41:30 pupnik: I'm a US citizen, and I'm appalled. Jul 08 00:42:29 Ron Paul wanted to abolish DHS. But nope, America didn't want to get off the crazy-train to naziville... Jul 08 00:42:48 Woo! Woo! Jul 08 00:43:00 o.O Jul 08 00:43:05 That's insane! Jul 08 00:44:11 Not that i'll be implemented soon... Jul 08 00:46:53 For great justice, find the code to turn them all on at once. Jul 08 00:47:01 LMFAO Jul 08 00:47:02 From the ground. Jul 08 00:47:24 * pupnik falls over coughing Jul 08 00:49:32 Is there any particular reason I shouldn't use GDM on the debian bundle at http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian ? Jul 08 00:51:24 must be a thread for it over there Jul 08 00:51:47 It's weird that it doesn't have a display manager preinstalled. Jul 08 00:53:33 perhaps there are space constraints Jul 08 00:54:00 I don't think so, really. It's meant to be installed on a sdhc card. Jul 08 00:54:18 Memory overhead, maybe... Jul 08 00:55:33 Hm. I wonder if I can strip it down to text-mode only? Jul 08 00:59:38 nyu2, that is the single most incredible idea I have ever seen anyone post :) however you will probably now and forever be included in some government watch list Jul 08 00:59:48 Oh, probably. Jul 08 01:00:01 I wouldn't be surprised if I already was. Jul 08 01:00:17 But more importantly, if I can come up with it, someone with the will to do it can, too. Jul 08 01:00:43 i know, thats the reason it should never be implemented Jul 08 01:01:13 Suggest that it be included on EVERY flight, by EVERY passenger. Including the President. Jul 08 01:01:28 and the captain Jul 08 01:01:35 And the secret service. Jul 08 01:01:41 And the air marshals. Jul 08 01:01:51 and all the crew Jul 08 01:02:03 Yep. Jul 08 01:02:06 cant leave loopholes Jul 08 01:02:21 This country is built around loopholes. Jul 08 01:02:25 DIABLO Jul 08 01:02:27 It's annoying. Jul 08 01:02:35 Man I love loops, and certain holes. Jul 08 01:02:44 DarthFredd, is that a hint to get back on topic? Jul 08 01:02:51 I don't suppose any of you know anything about..starting one's own private diablo server? Jul 08 01:03:01 The game? No, sorry. Jul 08 01:03:24 can you get diablo the game on diablo the operating system? Jul 08 01:03:34 Aw man Jul 08 01:03:46 I have a FSF sticker on the back of my N800 Jul 08 01:03:46 Damn these simple IRC searches! Jul 08 01:03:47 Probably not. Unless you have an x86-to-armel recompiler up your sleeve. Jul 08 01:03:48 are you talking about a webserver? Jul 08 01:03:59 No dudes, I was talking about the game. Sorry! Jul 08 01:04:03 there is a dosbox Jul 08 01:04:14 lol DarthFredd :) dont worry Jul 08 01:04:28 Hm. qemu? Jul 08 01:04:31 blame nokia for naming the OS release without doin a google first Jul 08 01:04:47 lcuk: is your nick pronounced l cock or lhouck? Jul 08 01:04:54 where is qwerty? Jul 08 01:04:58 l'cu'k Jul 08 01:05:01 probably in bed Jul 08 01:05:21 ah, maemo is a mobile OS? Jul 08 01:05:30 ive never tried to pronounce it, its kinda new and wasnt meant to stick, but you can call me "ell sea you kay" Jul 08 01:05:38 or just luck as most manage Jul 08 01:05:41 * nyu2 blinks at DarthFredd. Jul 08 01:05:48 Um, yes? Jul 08 01:05:50 fucking brilliant Jul 08 01:06:26 nyu2 the whole world has known diablo is a game for much longer than internet tablets running linux have been around calling a revision of their os diablo Jul 08 01:06:48 I know. But he's here, and asking about Maemo? Jul 08 01:07:10 The topic doesn't even mention Diablo. Jul 08 01:07:15 Oh, no. I guess it does. Jul 08 01:07:18 No dudes, I was talking about the game. Sorry! Jul 08 01:07:31 Hm. Jul 08 01:07:39 * lcuk whacks nyu2 with a cluestick Jul 08 01:07:46 :P Jul 08 01:07:48 Yeah, yeah. Jul 08 01:08:04 Just wait until wearing those bracelets becomes proof of citizenship. Jul 08 01:08:13 Yeh, get a fuckin' clue you thickskulled codeclefter :{P Jul 08 01:08:26 right, sorry to intrude on your OSS circlejerk Jul 08 01:08:33 ... Jul 08 01:08:36 OK then. Jul 08 01:08:53 Huh. Now I remember why I stick to smaller IRC servers. Jul 08 01:08:56 CITIZEN "nyu2" FROM "nyu2.hometown" YOU HAVE BEEN TEH NORTY! BZZZZZZZT! Jul 08 01:08:57 Less trolls. Jul 08 01:09:09 * nyu2 nods to lcuk. Jul 08 01:09:26 thats the first sweary troll i think ive ever seen Jul 08 01:10:16 They're mostly spam trolls here Jul 08 01:10:23 We get one about once every 2-3 weeks. Jul 08 01:10:27 Oh, ick. Jul 08 01:10:30 yer, there will be more with diablo thinking about it Jul 08 01:11:02 it does make sense, and i had realised but not REALISED what it meant Jul 08 01:11:04 Put it at the end of the topic? Less people will see it. Jul 08 01:11:24 Or just take it off Jul 08 01:11:26 and of course, blizzard have just announced diablo 3 havent they Jul 08 01:11:26 It's been long enough Jul 08 01:11:42 t least it isn't World of Diablo... yet. Jul 08 01:11:48 the channel is still called #maemo... Jul 08 01:12:02 diablo is not mmorg, they dont need to compete with themselves yet Jul 08 01:12:09 maemo != diablo though Jul 08 01:12:14 and thats the problem Jul 08 01:12:20 They're still sitting onWorld of Starcraft, too. Jul 08 01:12:49 starcraft isnt as big over here as in taiwan is it Jul 08 01:13:04 I don't know. I never really played it. Jul 08 01:13:11 Starcraft has some incredible longevity. Jul 08 01:13:21 12 years and counting Jul 08 01:13:27 theres a lot of similar games Jul 08 01:13:39 the missus still plays and buys upgrades for sims Jul 08 01:13:39 RTS games aren't my favorite genre. Jul 08 01:13:43 If you're speaking generally of RTS games. :P Jul 08 01:13:47 Oh Jul 08 01:13:50 Longevity. Jul 08 01:13:55 Aha. Jul 08 01:14:00 Nethack? Jul 08 01:14:07 i still play ut99 Jul 08 01:14:12 lol Jul 08 01:14:15 Oooh. Is there a nethack for Diablo yet? Jul 08 01:14:22 I wish they had gotten around to updating UT99 for OS X. Jul 08 01:14:35 UT99 had some badass mods Jul 08 01:14:42 None of the UT2003/4 mods stack up Jul 08 01:14:45 runs amazingly well on any hardware, is quick and lets me pretend to fly *whilst shooting shit to smithareens* Jul 08 01:15:06 all laters UTs make the hardware get a similar feeling to using vista Jul 08 01:15:12 Heh. Jul 08 01:15:15 it feels slow no matter what hardware you throw at it Jul 08 01:15:24 TacOps, Defense Alliance, Strangelove, Battle Bots Jul 08 01:15:32 There are endless awesome mods for UT99. Jul 08 01:15:37 its like working in hildon desktop versus liqbase ;) Jul 08 01:17:05 Oh, liqbase looks interesting. Also, nice accent. Jul 08 01:17:12 bleugh Jul 08 01:17:13 * GeneralAntilles gets ready to watch the new Venture Bros Jul 08 01:18:56 Where can I get it? Jul 08 01:20:24 Ah, found it. Will it run on Debian? Jul 08 01:23:39 nyu2, will what run? liqbase? Jul 08 01:23:53 Yes. Is it a static binary, or dynamic? Jul 08 01:24:32 theres libs required. source is available if you wanna have a hack about Jul 08 01:24:46 i dont think it compiles directly for anything other than maemo for now Jul 08 01:24:56 Hm. I might install a dev environment on this thing, and see if it'll compile, then. Jul 08 01:25:09 its been attempted in the past Jul 08 01:25:25 i know theres nokia specific bugs in there that need cleaning before it will work Jul 08 01:25:38 * nyu2 nods. Jul 08 01:25:39 but then again, im not targetting it at anything other than my nokia Jul 08 01:25:56 I've only got an n800 right now, but it should work, right? Jul 08 01:25:57 in the future i know the tweaks required will be simple enough Jul 08 01:26:03 and i have ideas about that Jul 08 01:26:07 oh yes Jul 08 01:26:39 Too bad you can't render PDFs at that speed. Jul 08 01:26:40 ive got a keyboard though, and the default OSK doesnt pop - its an overlay ontop of the desktop Jul 08 01:26:44 It would be nice. Jul 08 01:26:56 Ah, yeah. Jul 08 01:27:09 find something that gives the pdf as an object model with expected locations and render it Jul 08 01:27:10 I've got a bluetooth keyboard. Jul 08 01:27:30 its fairly simple, you can load whatever fonts you want Jul 08 01:27:36 I suspect that the machine just won't be fast enough. Jul 08 01:27:38 you can say draw this text here Jul 08 01:27:48 why do you say that? Jul 08 01:28:08 Because I've seen PDFs bog down machines more than 10 times as fast? Jul 08 01:28:21 you see me scrolling through hundreds of items and pages of text - ive got enough speed to render whole display quickly Jul 08 01:28:35 thats loading the assets Jul 08 01:28:45 Hm. Jul 08 01:28:47 its resizing textual content on the fly Jul 08 01:29:07 as a proof of concept the text can be rendered Jul 08 01:29:15 then work out an algo to handle images Jul 08 01:29:27 Makes sense. Jul 08 01:29:28 thats the way im currently thinking about html Jul 08 01:29:36 but shhh ;) noone knows about that yet Jul 08 01:29:40 Heh. Jul 08 01:29:50 Lit would be another good target. Jul 08 01:29:56 thats hopefully another "surprise" Jul 08 01:30:35 Oh, is the max text size still 4mb? Jul 08 01:30:48 theres lots of possible things - if i document the process and clean up whats available and most of all make it simple, i could get some people willing to talk to specific formats Jul 08 01:30:58 no, i upped it to 32mb for now ;) Jul 08 01:30:58 Also, can it handle wide text? Jul 08 01:31:03 Ah, good. Jul 08 01:31:24 lit support? Jul 08 01:31:25 Why? Jul 08 01:31:32 Just expand it to HTML. . . . Jul 08 01:31:41 same reason you want .doc support or anything Jul 08 01:31:44 Well, I suppose so. Jul 08 01:31:58 But the extra conversion step is annoying. Jul 08 01:32:18 Well, lit support would best be implemented by having convertlit expand it before the reader just uses the html. Jul 08 01:32:25 Direct support would be a waste of time. Jul 08 01:32:27 Yes. Jul 08 01:32:34 well find a way for liqbase to automatically convert on the fly between known formats and displayable formats Jul 08 01:32:49 Call external programs, I guess. Jul 08 01:33:02 like some kind of object model containing pages and lines and words in fonts and pictures Jul 08 01:33:17 Hrm, Media Converter is kinda old. Jul 08 01:33:18 * lcuk has all that in visual basic Jul 08 01:33:34 Are you going to be able to handle CJK characters? Jul 08 01:33:47 hrm Jul 08 01:33:58 heh! not unless i suddenly become foreign Jul 08 01:34:06 lcuk: so, you have it set up so the reader displays... pngs? jpegs? Jul 08 01:34:10 essentially? Jul 08 01:34:12 Oh, that's depressing. Jul 08 01:34:17 i can load a subset from the fonts and i assume it can be controlled MUCH better than i have Jul 08 01:34:31 rm_you, load liqbase Jul 08 01:34:34 goto options Jul 08 01:34:36 you said one of those was already natively in the right layer Jul 08 01:34:40 err Jul 08 01:34:44 I was hoping that you were planning on full unicode support. Jul 08 01:34:46 had the right format in some layer Jul 08 01:35:29 lcuk: k? Jul 08 01:35:44 nyu2, not a current priority - tbh fonts might even be dropped entirely if something im thinking of comes out Jul 08 01:35:48 blit test Jul 08 01:35:54 right Jul 08 01:35:58 i saw that Jul 08 01:36:03 is that png or jpeg? Jul 08 01:36:07 or neither? Jul 08 01:36:11 that is a fullcolor inmemory bitmap in yuv format Jul 08 01:36:14 neither Jul 08 01:36:22 hrm Jul 08 01:36:44 i thought you said that either png or jpeg was natively yuv Jul 08 01:36:45 lcuk, heh, I've been thinking about the fonts not needed topic :P Jul 08 01:36:49 hand drawn, there is a jpeg library out there that can supply me with jpeg data in yuv format Jul 08 01:37:10 lcuk: so, you could essentially get it to load any jpeg? Jul 08 01:37:33 yes Jul 08 01:37:46 crash, grab latest source, compile: create sketches which say the words monday -> sunday and save them with titles of monday to sunday Jul 08 01:37:52 so if you had backends that could convert a format to jpeg, ie pdf -> jpg, LaTeX -> jpg, etc... it would be fairly quick to impliment to formats Jul 08 01:38:05 a format to YUV bitplanes Jul 08 01:38:08 or would you rather actually have native support? Jul 08 01:38:15 lcuk, sorry, my NIT's battery is dead, won't be able to test Jul 08 01:38:23 jpeg however saves at YUV correct resolution, thats the simplest to grab Jul 08 01:38:47 thats ok crashanddie :) its just the startings initial sizing test for an os calendar Jul 08 01:39:02 lcuk, I figured :P Jul 08 01:39:22 any other image formats require conversion from RGB file data to YUV screen data Jul 08 01:39:43 if i were to make an image viewer, it would be faster than anything on this device for YUV Jul 08 01:40:05 Hm. netpbm or imlib2? Jul 08 01:40:06 jpeg ^ Jul 08 01:40:25 rarer than but valid if they save yuv Jul 08 01:40:36 lcuk, feature request: the bookreader needs to support links, and save state of book [page] when closing Jul 08 01:40:38 anyway, its late and ive got work in the morning Jul 08 01:40:44 i would love to chat more Jul 08 01:40:53 links to where? Jul 08 01:41:09 either itself, or the interwebs Jul 08 01:41:24 book state saving is a given as is key mapping and font sizing and scrolling speeds and a whole host of other things Jul 08 01:41:39 interwebs needs html Jul 08 01:41:46 no it doesn't Jul 08 01:41:47 or at least sockets Jul 08 01:41:50 nah could just load the browser Jul 08 01:41:54 yup Jul 08 01:41:57 bleugh Jul 08 01:42:16 lcuk, browser as a third wheel solution Jul 08 01:42:24 how would the browser be visible on its backscreen when the overlay is on? Jul 08 01:42:43 that's what I meant by "save state of book when closing" Jul 08 01:42:50 lcuk: so do you think that converting pdf to jpeg in the background to display it that way would be... suboptimal? Jul 08 01:42:54 what benefit would be gained from loading a book to shutting down and running the browser Jul 08 01:42:57 rm_you, quite Jul 08 01:42:58 would you rather try to go for actual native pdf support? Jul 08 01:43:40 pdf is complex and heavy Jul 08 01:43:55 if you add that, I'd say we'd need to think of modules Jul 08 01:44:03 rm_you, image portions of the pdf need decoding onto an image surface, however pdf is a page based document with text pinned in place at specific locations and fonts Jul 08 01:44:06 Modules aren't bad. Jul 08 01:44:34 Would be interesting to turn it into a complete hildon replacement. Jul 08 01:44:43 lcuk: yes but there ARE already pdf->jpeg converters, that create one jpeg per page, and essentially looks identical to the pdf page Jul 08 01:44:50 and i think i know one that is open source Jul 08 01:45:09 I think I wrote one in PHP Jul 08 01:45:10 :-° Jul 08 01:45:20 yer, but very inelegent and wasteful for text based pdfs Jul 08 01:45:37 yeah... Jul 08 01:45:46 plus Jul 08 01:45:59 there's no way it would be smooth when loading a 20+ page Jul 08 01:45:59 if its open source then it knows how to read a pdf (its open standard i think?) and so it will know where to draw text in certain locations Jul 08 01:46:00 though reorganizing text (for, IE, zooming) and keeping track of image positions might be complex? Jul 08 01:46:02 pdf file** Jul 08 01:46:16 instead of writing to a fluffing bitmap tweak it a bit to write to screen Jul 08 01:46:29 crashanddie: it only needs to load like 5 pages at a time... current, +/- 2 Jul 08 01:46:31 or so Jul 08 01:46:51 still Jul 08 01:47:01 I don't know how memory usage is in liqbase Jul 08 01:47:02 yes rm_you, its as complex as managing hundreds of recursive sketches on screen ;) Jul 08 01:47:06 Alright, anybody have an opinion on this? https://wiki.maemo.org/Video_encoding#Manual_conversion_instructions Jul 08 01:47:08 Stay or go? Jul 08 01:47:23 Personally, I'm with dneary, most of that stuff should go. Jul 08 01:47:29 stay Jul 08 01:47:35 hrm Jul 08 01:47:41 People can go to those tool's respective websites if they want to learn how to use them Jul 08 01:47:42 i might be up for rewriting that, GA Jul 08 01:47:50 throwing magic incantations at them isn't very useful. Jul 08 01:47:54 erhm Jul 08 01:47:57 if not stay Jul 08 01:47:58 since video conversion is like... my thing <_< Jul 08 01:48:01 it mostly just manages to clutter up the page and confuse them. Jul 08 01:48:14 at least give it a dedicated page Jul 08 01:48:36 right, sleeping :) gnite chaps - we shall no doubt talk more Jul 08 01:48:43 lcuk, like always Jul 08 01:48:44 ok lcuk Jul 08 01:48:47 lcuk, good night Jul 08 01:48:48 will catch you when you wake up Jul 08 01:48:52 and i will still be up :P Jul 08 01:48:56 he doesn't sleep Jul 08 01:48:58 he just pretends Jul 08 01:48:59 Personally, I think "transcode" section should go entirely (I've never heard of it), and the mencoder and ffmpeg sections should be downsized to a paragraph or two each. Jul 08 01:49:16 gnite GeneralAntilles ill stay out of this linuxy thing *waves hands* Jul 08 01:49:26 'night, lcuk. :P Jul 08 01:50:42 If somebody wants to strip the last section off into its own page (say, "Manual video encoding") that'd work. Jul 08 01:54:50 Transcode is useful. Jul 08 01:55:05 But maximum bitrates would be useful. Jul 08 01:55:13 Err, more useful. Jul 08 01:56:38 Why condense it? Move it to an 'examples' page instead? Jul 08 01:56:59 Because the goal isn't to scare people away. Jul 08 01:58:49 talking about tablet-encode Jul 08 01:58:56 I never got around solving this Jul 08 01:59:01 Use of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at /usr/bin/tablet-encode line 526. Jul 08 01:59:14 Where is tablet-encode? Jul 08 01:59:22 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=455 Jul 08 01:59:23 http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/ Jul 08 01:59:34 Ah, found it. Jul 08 01:59:41 '-_- Jul 08 01:59:53 sometimes, I feel like the answers we give are useless Jul 08 02:00:16 You're useless. Jul 08 02:00:45 Thank you Jul 08 02:00:55 s/You're/ur/ Jul 08 02:00:56 GeneralAntilles meant: ur useless. Jul 08 02:02:14 rm_you, think you can flesh out the limitations section to be a little more useful? Jul 08 02:02:37 It needs some general guidelines for resolution/bitrate Jul 08 02:03:53 crashanddie, which version are you using? Jul 08 02:04:02 * GeneralAntilles is gonna have to stop doing all the WPotD articles. <_< Jul 08 02:04:09 nyu2, latest Jul 08 02:04:13 2.18 IIRC Jul 08 02:04:51 GeneralAntilles, WPotD ? Jul 08 02:04:58 Wiki Page of the Day Jul 08 02:04:59 That looks like the output file name. Jul 08 02:05:11 dneary's campaign isn't working so well. :P Jul 08 02:05:12 It crashes instead of launching a gui? Jul 08 02:05:12 my %data = $list =~ /^ (\w+)\s*-\s*(.*)$/mg; Jul 08 02:05:16 yeah Jul 08 02:05:26 Then your perl is missing a component. Jul 08 02:05:55 mplayer doesn't support lavc encoder Jul 08 02:06:01 I get that, too :-° Jul 08 02:06:07 At the top, there're a list of 'use' commands. Jul 08 02:06:14 Huh. Jul 08 02:06:21 What distro are you using? Jul 08 02:06:25 Ahahaha Jul 08 02:06:26 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2008-July/021838.html Jul 08 02:06:29 I loled Jul 08 02:07:09 'apt-get install apt-get'? Jul 08 02:07:10 ^_^ Jul 08 02:07:50 nyu2, buntu Jul 08 02:08:04 Hm. Jul 08 02:08:23 It works on mine. Jul 08 02:08:41 nevermind Jul 08 02:08:46 I'll just keep using mencoder, like always :P Jul 08 02:08:58 You're probably missing something in perl, like I said. Jul 08 02:09:06 Can't imagine what Jul 08 02:09:12 me neither Jul 08 02:10:14 Well, install the 'use' command components using cpan? Jul 08 02:10:18 Jaffa'll be able to tell you when he wakes up. :P Jul 08 02:10:26 mediaserv is pretty badass Jul 08 02:10:33 So it's definitely worth figuring out. Jul 08 02:11:22 found it Jul 08 02:11:31 No, I guess not. Commenting them ot doesn't get your error. Jul 08 02:11:40 What was it? Jul 08 02:11:50 I had a hacked up version of mencoder Jul 08 02:11:55 Oh. Jul 08 02:11:59 Makes sense. Jul 08 02:12:36 h4ck3r Jul 08 02:13:45 better and better Jul 08 02:13:46 *** unhandled exception in callback: Jul 08 02:13:46 *** Can't use string ("/home/crashanddie/Desktop/test.a") as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at /usr/bin/tablet-encode line 173. Jul 08 02:13:51 bleh Jul 08 02:13:52 I'm tired Jul 08 02:14:15 see you guys tomorrow Jul 08 02:14:23 night Jul 08 02:14:28 'night Jul 08 02:43:45 so there still aren't any central american cities on tablet... Jul 08 02:44:07 can i manually add my hometown? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 08 02:59:57 2008