**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 26 02:59:56 2008 Jul 26 03:01:22 http://www.gpsbabel.org/capabilities.html Jul 26 03:02:42 brontide: oh, sweet Jul 26 03:02:43 thanks Jul 26 03:14:18 gah.. sold my n800 to get the n810 and it's no longer 299 at tigerdirect.. anyone know of any place to get the n810 for cheap? Jul 26 03:17:37 don't see it for that much anywhere anymore Jul 26 03:17:55 best deal I see is a amazon warehouse deal for $330, used Jul 26 03:18:03 that's where I got mine Jul 26 03:18:17 looked perfect, but It didn't come with a data cable Jul 26 03:18:21 or a car charger Jul 26 03:19:57 wolfspirit, Compusa had it for $300 recently Jul 26 03:20:33 yeah I know.. it's gone now.. well.. tigerdirect/compusa canada has it but it won't give me the option of shipping to the US Jul 26 03:21:40 You could probably get a pretty sweet deal on a used N810 once the WiMax editions start coming out. Jul 26 03:21:52 Or maybe not, if WiMax rollout keeps stalling :/ Jul 26 03:22:29 anyone know anything about the open moko and if it's any good? Jul 26 03:22:41 any good for what? Jul 26 03:22:49 not really as a replacement for a IT Jul 26 03:23:10 as a phone it should be fine although it won't have any data capabilities Jul 26 03:23:14 how about the zaurus models? Jul 26 03:24:38 don't know anything about them Jul 26 03:27:40 hmm what do you think.. if I got to the canada site and use an auto fill with my paypal account it lets me purchase it but says: Loveland,-- Select Province -- 45140 Canada instead of Ohio Jul 26 03:34:00 register passwd Jul 26 03:40:05 anyone using Eclipse for maemo devel? Jul 26 03:44:42 testing 123 anyone out there? Jul 26 03:53:28 Anyone have an N810 WiMAX? Jul 26 03:57:06 hally, I have an 810 but not wimax Jul 26 03:57:21 So do I. Jul 26 03:57:30 Wondered if WiMAX actually delivers in US. Jul 26 03:57:54 I think Sprint has it in a few cities, but I was reading recently in a trade rag that it isn't likely to be a widely Jul 26 03:57:56 used standard Jul 26 03:58:05 Yeah, that's my impression. Jul 26 03:58:07 because 4G cellular will overcome it Jul 26 03:58:15 I think Sprint plans to roll it out system wide Jul 26 03:58:18 but that could change Jul 26 03:58:45 I used ot have Sprint's microwave internet service (no cable or DSL at my home) and they were going to change that to something new - I think wimax Jul 26 03:58:49 I am in Phoenix Jul 26 03:58:58 but they aren't here yet and now I have DSL Jul 26 03:59:24 I am trying to figure out how to get started developing on the N810 Jul 26 03:59:31 err. for it Jul 26 03:59:45 python as much as possible Jul 26 04:00:08 I am most confy with C, as I did it for a living for almost 20 years Jul 26 04:00:23 and still use it on embedded products Jul 26 04:00:42 I'm comfy with C also but cross-compiling sucks for hobbyists. Jul 26 04:00:52 Too much extra hassle to set up on your host machine. Jul 26 04:00:57 oops - answered on the wrong window. I'm also mesocyclone - was just getting my IRC working Jul 26 04:01:51 well, therre is a cross-compilation system already built for N810. I've compiled little programs and one big program (that I didn't write) successfully. Jul 26 04:02:13 It is a VMWARE package, so you just download it, fire it up in VMWare and it is ready to go Jul 26 04:02:26 I don't have time to do more than hobbyist stuff on this machine either Jul 26 04:02:39 I just wanted a programmable GPS Jul 26 04:03:17 there are about 260 people logged into this channel and it is very quiet. Hmmm Jul 26 04:04:51 mmm. Jul 26 04:04:57 mmm Jul 26 04:06:22 Of course, setting up vmware is also an "extra hassle." Jul 26 04:06:53 true. I run it on WindowsXP and then run my Linuxes on top of it Jul 26 04:07:12 it's really easy to set up that way - just a big download for vmware and a bigger one for the maemo package, and you've got it Jul 26 04:08:14 That just sounds so backwards to me. :) Jul 26 04:08:33 I figured it would Jul 26 04:08:57 I have one laptop that dual boots. The Windows has VMWARE that runs linux, and when I boot Linux, the VMWare runs a WindowsXP Jul 26 04:09:24 Unfortunately, I have a number of reasons I need to have Windows as the primary OS on this machine. Otherwise I'd probably have a Mac. Jul 26 04:10:08 anyway, it isn't too hard to get stuff working for N810 development, if you download an existing project (I used maemo-mapper) and build it and then hack it. But building something from scratch is a bit harder Jul 26 04:10:26 and finding the info is hard, even though Maemo is one of the best documented open source things I've run across Jul 26 04:10:29 Almost all computing is that way now. Jul 26 04:10:38 sure is Jul 26 04:10:40 Easy to tweak, hard to build from the ground up. Jul 26 04:10:42 Time to hit the sack here. Jul 26 04:10:46 * halley waves. Jul 26 04:10:54 yeah. I do consulting on itty bitty embedded things Jul 26 04:10:56 8 bit Jul 26 04:11:00 assembly lang from scratch Jul 26 04:11:03 no confusion or magic Jul 26 04:11:05 gnite Jul 26 04:11:15 * halley nods. Jul 26 04:11:34 okay Europe, time to wake up and answer my questions ;-) Jul 26 04:20:05 Anybody else "access denied" http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ ? Jul 26 04:21:34 Somebody want to triage this? Jul 26 04:21:35 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3499 Jul 26 04:21:39 I think my head will explode if I try. Jul 26 04:23:31 GeneralAntilles: apparently I am not authorized to view that bug :P Jul 26 04:23:34 lol Jul 26 04:23:50 lol Jul 26 04:23:54 How the fuck did he file it there? Jul 26 04:24:20 what is it? Jul 26 04:24:55 Blocker bug for "Cannot download USBcontrol" Jul 26 04:25:06 In Browser Extras for some goddamn reason Jul 26 04:25:13 However the hell he got it there. Jul 26 04:25:24 Somebody install it from Extras so I can kick his ass. Jul 26 04:28:50 Is there no release of maemo mapper in diablo yet? Jul 26 04:32:19 Mercury, gnuite is on a roadtrip. Jul 26 04:32:26 Unless somebody else wants to package. Jul 26 04:32:31 Ah. Jul 26 04:33:06 Anybody happen to have a mirror of rx-34 Diablo handy? Jul 26 04:34:05 gnuite is moving across the country. Jul 26 04:37:01 Does the Windows flasher save a copy of the firmwhere anywhere? I could check the VM I used for a copy of it Jul 26 05:03:33 mmm, beer Jul 26 05:10:45 acydlord, :( all I have on hand is "ew, beer" I don't have any "mmm, beer" left Jul 26 05:10:59 sad times Jul 26 05:11:01 http://twitpic.com/5f7k Jul 26 05:11:04 i had one of those Jul 26 05:11:18 and i'm working on a "folly pack" from new belgium Jul 26 05:12:14 ah i had that Jul 26 05:12:26 some of those are meh Jul 26 05:12:34 I think I like Mothership Jul 26 05:12:37 <_< Jul 26 05:12:38 the mighty arrow is decent for a pale Jul 26 05:13:05 i like 1884, you could drink it as a full coarse meal though Jul 26 05:13:38 mothership grew on me, i drank it all last summer Jul 26 05:42:45 Jaffa: ping Jul 26 05:45:17 * koyote looks at his n800 Jul 26 05:45:40 any of u folks use Eclipse? Jul 26 05:46:32 nope. Stopped doing programming for the most part. and porting. Which sucks since I'm apparently the only person who thinks handhelds should have Real Operating System Environments Jul 26 05:47:49 sigh Jul 26 05:48:38 I see this work going into an Eclipse for Maemo, but no hint that anyone has actually used it Jul 26 05:50:56 eclipse made me want to beat myself with a crowbar Jul 26 05:51:26 I use it in Java all the time and it rocks. Even with C it is okay. But haven't figured out how to leverage it in Maemo Jul 26 05:53:41 i dont like java based programs Jul 26 05:54:38 to each his own. I do lots of assembly and C, but my main job uses Java, and I love it. I've used about 30 assembly languages and 12 higher level languages over the years. Java is one of the best (although Forth is pretty nifty too) Jul 26 05:55:24 my main quips with java are that it is usually resource intensive, and has a penchant for being buggy and crashing Jul 26 05:55:40 * rm_you constantly wishes Java would work on the tablets Jul 26 05:55:52 I have rarely run into Java bugs. It is resource intensive, which is why rm_you isn't getting his wish yet Jul 26 05:55:55 C is painful in comparison <_< Jul 26 05:55:57 i mean java is a godesnd when it works as it is supposed to Jul 26 05:56:05 yeah Jul 26 05:56:07 very sad Jul 26 05:56:20 most of my dealings with java are on a corporate basis though Jul 26 05:56:26 Well, we use it at work for lots of stuff, and never have a problem with the language. Now if you use JEE... well, that's mostly a bad idea Jul 26 05:56:56 where it seems a company paid a 5 year old to make an app that is essential in day to day operation Jul 26 05:56:58 I'd like to get into Ruby more, but don't have the time, and they don't wanna use it at work Jul 26 05:57:19 if you can do python and perl you can do ruby Jul 26 05:57:34 there are plenty of bad Java programmers out there, since schools turn them out without teaching much real computer science. Jul 26 05:57:36 I hate PERL Jul 26 05:57:41 Python is okay Jul 26 05:58:13 ruby from my experience is pretty much the extensiveness of perl with the stability of python Jul 26 05:59:11 i know people that have picked up ruby in a weekend Jul 26 05:59:25 well, Ruby is really very different from Perl, other than a few syntactical and philosophical similarities. It's a true OOL, from the bottom up. Perl is a kludge built on a kludge. Perl OO is just a hack Jul 26 05:59:37 Yeah, you can pick up the rudiments of Ruby fast Jul 26 05:59:40 Same with Perl Jul 26 06:00:34 for tablets, I think FORTH would be really good. I once implemented a whole application, including multitasking and data comms, in FORTH on a Z80 in 32K of RAM and 2K of ROM Jul 26 06:01:04 but the academics don't like FORTH, so hardly anybody even knows about it Jul 26 06:01:06 I had a lot of fun on the palm for a while doing pascal, assembly, and a compiled basic Jul 26 06:01:21 an interesting mix Jul 26 06:01:24 You'd laught, but the izibasic onboard compiler generates seriously fast code. Jul 26 06:01:25 pascal and assebly, thats taking it back Jul 26 06:01:39 these days, you can generate fast code about almost everything Jul 26 06:01:45 hey, acyd, I started with Fortran II Jul 26 06:02:40 Java used to be slow until they got the JIT technology working well Jul 26 06:03:11 i started with basic, and what was that one on the apple II Jul 26 06:03:20 gustnado: the izibasic benchmarks better than the compiled C, and naturally any of the byte compiled palm languages Jul 26 06:03:27 Apple II was MS basic Jul 26 06:03:31 koyote, that is good Jul 26 06:03:39 and Apple II was 6502 Jul 26 06:03:53 guy who does izibasic is REALLY into it. Jul 26 06:03:57 I still write code, for money, for the 6800 (embedded variant), in assembly Jul 26 06:04:17 sounds like he is Jul 26 06:04:20 to be completely honest, I never would have kept looking if palm had fixed 3 things. Jul 26 06:04:49 1: background network connections 2: the fscking old ass stupid POS web browser 3: the tether requirement Jul 26 06:05:03 3 is hackable, but meh. Jul 26 06:05:06 what tether requirement? Jul 26 06:05:27 you "need" a pc type machine to install software. Jul 26 06:05:57 my problem with Palm OS are: 1) not true multitasking OS 2) hasn't improved with time. That being said, my phone is a Treo 700p Jul 26 06:05:57 yeah, the palms were never designed well enough to be standalone devices Jul 26 06:06:05 You have to realize, my introduction to palmtop computing was the tandy PC2. Jul 26 06:06:09 The Palms were never intended to be standalone Jul 26 06:06:19 I've always considered palmtops to be Real Computers Jul 26 06:06:20 i've got the centro, and im looking forward to the 800 palm based Jul 26 06:06:46 I didn't get the Centro because it doesn't have an antenna connector, and when I'm storm chasing, I need an external amp and antenna Jul 26 06:06:53 gustnado: Palms could have escaped the need for a tehter long ago. if not the coonvenience Jul 26 06:07:05 centro does actually have an antenna connector Jul 26 06:07:11 oh, crap Jul 26 06:07:11 it's under a rubber panel Jul 26 06:07:13 I wish I'd known that Jul 26 06:07:21 What's somewhat disturbing, is that Palm's several year old PIM apps are still some of the best around. Jul 26 06:07:23 I might have gotten one Jul 26 06:07:45 yeah, when i bought mine the rep told me it didnt have irda or the antena port Jul 26 06:07:45 Palm's apps are nice. Very lightweight, just the right functionality Jul 26 06:07:49 it has both Jul 26 06:07:53 Mercury: well, they are reasonably mature and featureful. Though not quite as good as the HP PIM suite from the 200LX Jul 26 06:08:03 I keep all my personal data in a Palm and access it using the PC desktop Jul 26 06:08:24 i have all my contacts and business cards in the palm Jul 26 06:08:27 koyote: I've not used those. Jul 26 06:08:33 What's amusing to ME is that the leeenux people are SO focussed on chrome and bloat that a decent PIM app hasn't materialized outside of emacs Jul 26 06:08:36 and i can sync them between centro, pc, and NIT Jul 26 06:08:44 I shoulda waited, I guess, until the Centro came out and I could look at it in hand, but I wanted a new phone before my chase vacation Jul 26 06:09:15 Mercury: it's old tech. really old. a 286 based PDA with CGA graphics and a week of battery life on AA cells. Jul 26 06:09:21 back in the mid 90s Jul 26 06:09:21 I keep my whole life in the thing. I have an encryption program that runs on the PC and the palm for sensitive stuff. I use the calendar, contacts, tasks and memos a whole lot Jul 26 06:09:28 the centro has one of the best keyboards on the palms Jul 26 06:09:58 I try not to use my palm keyboard much - prefer to put the data in on the PC when I can. But I do miss graphiti Jul 26 06:10:36 I wish the converging tablet/phone/PIM world would standardize a bit more - preferably on open platform. Jul 26 06:10:36 I'm running a nokia E61. I *half* wish I had my treo back, but the web browsing and email app on the nokia actually work, so I make do without a decent programming suite onboard and nonthreaded chats Jul 26 06:10:37 i usually used my n810 as a bt kb for my centro Jul 26 06:10:51 but my n810 is about to be sent out for repairs :( Jul 26 06:11:03 ooh Jul 26 06:11:04 not good Jul 26 06:11:10 indeed Jul 26 06:11:10 I just got my 810 Jul 26 06:11:15 touchscreen went out on mine Jul 26 06:11:38 I got it for one purpose: a programmable GPS that I could use to avoid the damned photo radar tickets in this stupid little town that I have to go through all the time Jul 26 06:11:47 lol Jul 26 06:11:51 serious Jul 26 06:11:59 the gps isnt the most accurate Jul 26 06:12:09 but it is mighty programmable, especially with mapper Jul 26 06:12:10 it's accuracy is good enough. Problem is startup time Jul 26 06:12:26 The 800/810 looked so nice when I was browsing around. But the OS really wastes real estate. And the developer concensus seems to be that the machine is too weak to do what a 486 does. Jul 26 06:12:28 My problem now is getting to where I can develop reasonably, without investing too much of my tm Jul 26 06:12:30 time Jul 26 06:12:37 yeah, the agps helper in diablo helps Jul 26 06:12:52 well, of course its weaker than a 486, but hey, it's little and it runs on a battery Jul 26 06:13:00 a little battery compared to a laptop Jul 26 06:13:25 oh, sure. A 486 with 16MB of ram would run rings around MODERN technology Jul 26 06:13:26 The ARM is an okay processor though. I've played with Atmel's embedded ARM and it's neat Jul 26 06:13:43 Amtel makes an ARM? Jul 26 06:13:45 hey, my wrist-watch has more compute power than the first computer I programmed Jul 26 06:13:50 yes, they do - a whole line of them Jul 26 06:13:53 exactly. Jul 26 06:13:57 i wish the amd embedded procs would get more play Jul 26 06:14:09 problem with anything amd though is that it's power hungry Jul 26 06:14:13 and you can program and debug them in circuit with a $150 USB interface and theirr free iDE Jul 26 06:14:21 The 8x0 series has more power than the zaurus clamshells, but on those I could have a real X environment and compiler Jul 26 06:14:41 the nokia is "too weak and time is too contrained" to have... regular stuff. Jul 26 06:14:50 well, I've been doing cross compiling for decades, so I don't mind relying on a PC for development Jul 26 06:15:10 my first programing was in a RoboWars VM Jul 26 06:15:15 Is having gcc on an N810 a stupid idea? Jul 26 06:15:24 I would like to be able to do interactive debug from the PC to a program running on N810, but don't know how Jul 26 06:15:25 oh, and the "screen is too small"..... as if my main machine was better Jul 26 06:15:35 robink: I've been told so. Jul 26 06:15:40 my n810 usually is my main machine Jul 26 06:15:55 My desktop is an eee Jul 26 06:15:56 I think you'd have to have a really good reason to run gcc on the 810 - put it on a laptop or one of these new really small PC's Jul 26 06:16:02 * robink will probably uninstall gcc and g++ on his n810. Jul 26 06:16:08 * robink has a scratchbox install on his desktop. Jul 26 06:16:09 My first programming was on an IBM 7094 Jul 26 06:16:23 I think robink has the right idea Jul 26 06:16:30 I moved from robowars to my HP48G Jul 26 06:16:34 gustnado: it's an OS, it should have compiler. Jul 26 06:16:35 heh Jul 26 06:16:51 Proteous: I had a love/hate with the HP48 Jul 26 06:16:58 Can you get distcc for the Maemo? Jul 26 06:17:03 koyote, if you want that, use FORTH. It's an OS, compiler, assembler, and high level language all in one, and fits in almost no memory Jul 26 06:17:10 s/the\ // Jul 26 06:17:36 I mean, the programming was good, but the form factor was a bit much and the move from the older programming language to RPL was not good from an end user or educational perspective Jul 26 06:17:45 heh Jul 26 06:18:04 it was good for programing stuff during math class and on the long bus ride home Jul 26 06:18:08 * robink still has his 48G Jul 26 06:18:12 gustnado: dude. emacs is me. In fact, that's the best thing about linux PDAs Jul 26 06:18:15 still has his slide rule Jul 26 06:18:18 so do I Jul 26 06:18:27 emacs, eh... never got into that. VI is my religion Jul 26 06:18:41 gustnado: you can use a vi in emacs. Jul 26 06:18:41 and now, eclipse Jul 26 06:18:46 lots of people do. Jul 26 06:18:56 oh, well I just use a vi from the shell Jul 26 06:18:57 hi's Jul 26 06:19:04 howdys Jul 26 06:19:06 The text editor isn't important. It's the lisp machine and capabilities that shine. Jul 26 06:19:11 ah Jul 26 06:19:26 well, only so many hours in the day to learn all this stuff, and sitll make a living Jul 26 06:19:27 BBDB, gnus, erc, wiki-mode. Jul 26 06:19:36 btw, if u like lisp, you might like FORTH Jul 26 06:19:41 is there anyway to get rid of the feedback when ever there is an action on the 810' Jul 26 06:19:42 and I'll shut up about it now :) Jul 26 06:19:42 ? Jul 26 06:19:49 Oh, i've done some forth, though not in a decade. Jul 26 06:19:51 I found a practical use for the laser pointer Jul 26 06:19:54 there is this annoying hum, noise Jul 26 06:19:55 tormenting my dog Jul 26 06:19:59 I haven't done it in 25 years now Jul 26 06:20:13 laser pointers are good for shocking heads-down workers in their cubes, too Jul 26 06:20:25 my 5mw green one does that well Jul 26 06:20:49 heh Jul 26 06:20:51 hum? Jul 26 06:20:58 well, i mostly have stopped doing computer work. I'm just eternally pissed that we got robbed by the PC. Jul 26 06:21:06 robbed? Jul 26 06:21:08 u mean by uSoft? Jul 26 06:21:14 the whole thing. Jul 26 06:21:22 * doc|home hasn't been robbed by microsoft in 6 years Jul 26 06:21:25 yea, like if you plug into the car Jul 26 06:21:29 We had really powerful, true Real Computer palmtops for ears Jul 26 06:21:32 I love PC's, but these days I work from supercomputers down to the 8 bit embedded Jul 26 06:21:32 or even headphones Jul 26 06:21:43 there this blank feeedback Jul 26 06:21:54 years, even Jul 26 06:21:56 koyote: speak for yourself, I had nothing of the sort :/ Jul 26 06:22:04 we as a civilization Jul 26 06:22:10 mulva, that could be electrical noise on your car power Jul 26 06:22:14 back later Jul 26 06:22:19 does it change frequenty as the engine speed changes? Jul 26 06:22:21 real data handling could be done. real work could be done. Jul 26 06:22:27 well, what about headphones then? Jul 26 06:22:28 koyote, what palmtops are you talking about? Jul 26 06:22:37 I'm pretty sure its the 810 Jul 26 06:22:51 mulva, do you only get it when plugged into the car? Jul 26 06:23:08 hasn't anyone been listening with headphones and here the little blank gaps? Jul 26 06:23:29 I don't use it for multimedia - I just got it to as a programmable gps Jul 26 06:23:32 gustnado, headphone as well Jul 26 06:23:39 gustnado: pc2, pc6, sharp series- 1360 was my favorite. HP75, HP71B, HP41, HP42, even after the DOS revolution you still had things like the HP95LX and HP200LX Jul 26 06:23:49 I use my COWAN D2 as a sound machine Jul 26 06:23:52 or even when I plug it in to the stereo Jul 26 06:23:59 koyote, never played with those Jul 26 06:24:02 Atari even made a DOS palmtop that ran full msd3.x Jul 26 06:24:19 wasn't into palm tops back then, and never played with the HP stuff (except HPUX on SMP Unix boxen) Jul 26 06:24:28 Atari... there's a name I haven't heard in a while Jul 26 06:24:29 hmm Jul 26 06:24:43 they had the very best PC graphics in the early '80s Jul 26 06:24:48 for almost no money Jul 26 06:24:49 thanks Jul 26 06:25:04 mulva, are you talking about skipping? Jul 26 06:25:19 mulva, don't fully understand your situation Jul 26 06:25:23 me either Jul 26 06:25:43 yea it's hard to explain Jul 26 06:25:49 now it's all entertainment. And it takes more time to computerize my knifemaking and sheduling than it does to jot it down in a notebook Jul 26 06:25:52 hence: robbed Jul 26 06:25:58 like plug in some headphones and have a listen Jul 26 06:26:15 there is this whitenoise in the backround as you type Jul 26 06:26:21 mulva, I think you are saying that it doesn't matter how you listen to it - stereo, headphone or speakers, you hear something wrong with the audio, right? Jul 26 06:26:23 or with any actuon Jul 26 06:26:27 how high do you have to turn it up to hear it? Jul 26 06:26:49 48 Jul 26 06:26:56 I didn't know there were numbers Jul 26 06:27:09 what audio playback program are you using? Jul 26 06:27:21 canola Jul 26 06:27:29 but it's not just that Jul 26 06:27:32 All I hear when typing is little clicks - intended feedback Jul 26 06:27:36 it like everything Jul 26 06:27:38 do you only hear it when playing audio Jul 26 06:27:44 or even when not playing audio? Jul 26 06:27:50 okay you hear the clicks right? Jul 26 06:27:55 the keyboard does beep when you press the keys Jul 26 06:27:59 yes, I do. You should hear the clicks Jul 26 06:28:00 then if you listen carefully Jul 26 06:28:01 well, unless you turn that feature off Jul 26 06:28:08 there is noise in the backround Jul 26 06:28:30 and it stay for like a couple of seconds after you've clicked Jul 26 06:28:58 not on mine Jul 26 06:29:07 damn Jul 26 06:29:14 then it's mine then I guess Jul 26 06:29:15 how do u turn the volume up on this thing? Jul 26 06:29:31 advancelight? Jul 26 06:29:34 (u can see I don't normallhy use it for listening) Jul 26 06:29:37 ? Jul 26 06:29:59 I hate summer. It's finally cool enough to work, and it's too late to make loud banging metal on metal type noises Jul 26 06:30:18 up in the taskbar Jul 26 06:30:22 here in Phoenix, it is never cool enough to work in the summer Jul 26 06:30:59 I never had a problem growing up in scottsdale Jul 26 06:31:01 koynote, like doing it in armor, eh? :P Jul 26 06:31:01 taskbar? Jul 26 06:31:10 but these days work means a 2000 degree fire. Jul 26 06:31:20 ? Jul 26 06:31:35 koyote, no one has a problem growing up in it ;-) Jul 26 06:31:40 mulva: Actually, I wear a kilt. Armor is too scratchy for doing it. Jul 26 06:31:42 where on the taskbar Jul 26 06:32:09 koyote, then u know the little town I am complaining about: Paradise Valley Jul 26 06:32:09 gustnado: One of my buddies has his forge down in tuscon. Jul 26 06:32:22 koyote, ahhhh easy access :P Jul 26 06:32:23 Of course, it was 105 today here in "temperate" california Jul 26 06:32:27 ah.... that's write... working metal Jul 26 06:32:35 write? must be tired. RIGHT Jul 26 06:32:43 gustnado, sorry the icons on the top left corner Jul 26 06:32:54 mulva: indeed! kilts and the proper career choice = grillz Jul 26 06:33:28 girlz? :p Jul 26 06:33:29 gustnado: I know PV. Jul 26 06:33:36 mine has little people in top left. Next down on left is the little blocks - that's probably what u mean Jul 26 06:33:55 little people Jul 26 06:33:55 mulva: grillz is g4ngst4l337 for girls. apparently Jul 26 06:34:03 koyote, I live in a county island between PV and PHX, and can't drive anywhere without going through PV and by their damned photo radar vans Jul 26 06:34:11 am in the right room? :p Jul 26 06:34:26 i think so Jul 26 06:34:45 gustnado: never cared much for PV in general, even back in the 80s Jul 26 06:35:16 they have a snooty attitude Jul 26 06:35:21 always have Jul 26 06:35:21 and I've lived here since 86 Jul 26 06:35:33 koyote is there anything under kilts? Jul 26 06:35:39 mulva Jul 26 06:35:46 mulva: in my case, knives. and boots. Jul 26 06:35:47 I mean to wear :p Jul 26 06:35:50 I turned the volume all the way up (had to run a player)... Jul 26 06:35:59 and stil no bad audio Jul 26 06:36:22 gustnado where do you live? I'll come over and show you's Jul 26 06:36:35 :p Jul 26 06:36:39 mulva: I wear bike shorts under when I'm biking Jul 26 06:36:48 M - U in AZ? Jul 26 06:36:56 nevermind, though, thanks for helping! Jul 26 06:37:00 sorry Jul 26 06:37:11 no need to be ! Jul 26 06:37:12 am an elec engineer, thought I might be able to help troubleshoot Jul 26 06:37:19 ah, good. enough distraction here means I've had 3 beers and now I won't try and finish this stupid sheath tonight Jul 26 06:37:42 I have another question Jul 26 06:37:45 and what do you do with those knives? Sell them? or are you into midieval stuff or sumpn Jul 26 06:37:47 ? Jul 26 06:37:59 oh. I'm a bladesmith. Jul 26 06:38:00 any way to make this OS transparent? Jul 26 06:38:11 define "transparent" in this context Jul 26 06:38:24 I gave up geekery for knifemaking. It makes no financial sense but sure as hell is more fun Jul 26 06:38:26 so when the windows layer up its transparent, and you can see through them Jul 26 06:38:36 rather them being solid? Jul 26 06:39:00 you could probably do that in an app, I'm guessing, with GTK, but otherwise,don't think so Jul 26 06:39:11 ah Jul 26 06:39:17 too bad Jul 26 06:39:28 don't take my word as gospel Jul 26 06:39:34 I don't know why that is not an option Jul 26 06:39:35 I'm the guy who doesn't know how to adjust the volume Jul 26 06:39:42 without running a player app Jul 26 06:39:42 cause it makes sense to do so Jul 26 06:40:08 well, it's linux. Do u know of linux distros where u can do that without programming? Jul 26 06:40:41 I dont know anything about linux, except that penguin Jul 26 06:41:12 well, I haven't done graphjics programming on it, so I'm hardly an expert. I do lots of linux work, just not with graphics Jul 26 06:41:18 or iif I do graphics, its in Java Jul 26 06:41:20 or HTML Jul 26 06:41:37 transparency would make you emacs frames very confusing Jul 26 06:41:38 ;) Jul 26 06:41:52 transparency could cause all sorts of weirdness Jul 26 06:42:00 but selective transparency could be useful Jul 26 06:42:12 btw, when u say emacs, you mean THE emacs of long time Unix fame, right? Jul 26 06:42:16 i could make an xterm with transparency if you want - for the desktop background Jul 26 06:42:28 how would u do that? Jul 26 06:42:34 gustnado: yesssssssss. That's what I'm ircing in Jul 26 06:42:43 grab the background image and draw it in the xterm window Jul 26 06:43:07 koyote... ah - okay. I'm IRC'ing in the Maemo SDK Linux running in VMWare on top of XP :-) Jul 26 06:43:11 pipnik - got it Jul 26 06:43:33 pupnik, u know how to program this beast? Jul 26 06:43:43 I'm ircing in emacs on ubuntu on an asus eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Jul 26 06:43:56 pupnik, make xchat transparent Jul 26 06:43:59 an eeeee... cute Jul 26 06:44:09 it's my big computer Jul 26 06:44:14 pretty damn big, too. Jul 26 06:44:36 anyways <- betime Jul 26 06:44:42 goodnightssssssssss Jul 26 06:44:45 not compated to my new Thinkpad, probably, which is still not as big as the Dell laptop it replaced, which isn't nealry as big as my tower that I use only as a server most days Jul 26 06:44:50 nights Jul 26 06:44:56 love you all <3 Jul 26 06:45:09 I'm still missing the 200Lx form factor Jul 26 06:45:17 <3<3<3 Jul 26 06:45:19 what's that? Jul 26 06:45:21 ciao Jul 26 06:45:25 oh, hilarity. Jul 26 06:45:25 gustnado: would be a fair amount of work to figure out how to do that, so i dunno Jul 26 06:45:31 http://www.koyotemakesstuff.com/knives/77-1.jpg Jul 26 06:45:37 my son holding the boar hunting knife Jul 26 06:45:46 pupnik, oh... that's what I bought it for Jul 26 06:46:11 cute kid. Big knife. I'll stick to my Sig Sauer Jul 26 06:46:50 200LX is the forever god of handhelds- http://hp200lx.net/ Jul 26 06:46:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_200Lx Jul 26 06:47:05 gustnado: meh. rifles are better. Jul 26 06:47:22 cute Jul 26 06:47:23 but you can't win a boar knife hunting contest with anything but a knife Jul 26 06:47:42 well, I've got an AK also, and I agree, rifles are beter... I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a pistola Jul 26 06:47:54 except for my bluderbuss pistol I have Jul 26 06:48:06 and this one is an order for a contest. be interesting to see how it goes. Jul 26 06:48:18 hey, you could bring your boar knife up hear and take out some of these Javalena that eat the landscaping Jul 26 06:48:24 ah Jul 26 06:48:46 I have a czech "target" rifle in 308, 44. lever, mossberg pump. all good. Jul 26 06:48:59 ah... serious tuff Jul 26 06:49:03 stuff Jul 26 06:49:19 I can hit a target in general at 15 yards with a pistol. But I can ring the gong at the range out in phoenix with that 308 :) Jul 26 06:49:24 I just got the AK as sort of memorabilia Jul 26 06:49:26 nice knives koyote Jul 26 06:49:34 not from here, but when I'm in AZ. Jul 26 06:49:56 pupnik: the directory lists for browsing. Jul 26 06:50:01 still kind of a new site. Jul 26 06:50:08 A friend has a Belgian NATO something, and I was using it with a red-dot sight and hit the gong out at Usery (315 yards) first 6 shots. Jul 26 06:50:16 but thanks. I've been having a good run making them Jul 26 06:50:19 which range in phx? Jul 26 06:51:38 acy - the only gong I know of is at User Pass (Mesa) Jul 26 06:51:48 i used to go out to usery every sunday Jul 26 06:52:00 good grief, is this an AZ chat room? ;-) Jul 26 06:52:03 we'd take a barret m209 out there Jul 26 06:52:57 acydlord: um. the one out by cave creek. I honestly seriously just gre up going to it. Jul 26 06:53:01 um... Jul 26 06:53:05 what caliber is the m209 Jul 26 06:53:08 avery? Jul 26 06:53:11 koyote - ben avery? Jul 26 06:53:17 yah Jul 26 06:53:17 yeah, thats ben avery Jul 26 06:53:26 Carefree Highway and I17 Jul 26 06:53:55 When I was last at Usery, a biker next to us was blasting away with a Barret .50 - what a cannon Jul 26 06:54:00 I haven't been in a while. since I live several hundred miles away Jul 26 06:54:06 they wouldn't let him shoot at the metal target because it would blow it away Jul 26 06:54:26 it's a 50 Jul 26 06:54:37 big critter, then Jul 26 06:54:53 yeah, they dont let much above a 357 shoot at the pistol range Jul 26 06:55:07 I'm talking about the rifle rane Jul 26 06:55:09 range Jul 26 06:55:26 I work near SDL gun club, which has a nice indoor range Jul 26 06:55:28 I should use it more Jul 26 06:55:38 scotts gun club is nice Jul 26 06:55:42 yep Jul 26 06:55:55 i used to go there alot with my old m16 when i had a membership Jul 26 06:56:09 m16 - a noble weapon Jul 26 06:56:38 indeed Jul 26 06:56:53 when I was in the service, the smallest thing we could fire was 70mm Jul 26 06:56:57 i'm probably going to buy a 22 rifle and mod it for a target weapin though Jul 26 06:57:10 I've still got a .22 from when I was a kid Jul 26 06:57:29 never use it though. Also have this wicked deadly .22 pellet rifle Jul 26 06:57:36 used to hunt rabbits with it Jul 26 06:58:15 22s are nice for targer shooting, you can buy a metric ton of rounds for $20 Jul 26 06:58:22 exactly Jul 26 06:58:45 ak rounds are cheap too, but an AK is hardly an interesting target weapon Jul 26 06:58:56 i'm probably gonna buy a 10-22 and throw an ar-22 mod or a bullpup stock on it Jul 26 06:59:02 and SDL gun club won't let u use the cheap chinese ammo cause it too often has steel in it Jul 26 06:59:08 ah Jul 26 06:59:10 yeah Jul 26 06:59:28 i accidentally took some HEI rounds for my 45 in there once Jul 26 06:59:35 they were none too happy Jul 26 07:00:10 err... where did u get those? When I was a kid I used to make them, but aren't they class III? Jul 26 07:01:25 i have a class 2 license Jul 26 07:01:50 ah Jul 26 07:02:03 well, I gotta get to bed Jul 26 07:02:17 getting late, yah Jul 26 07:02:21 i'm going there after this beerm have a good night Jul 26 07:02:22 maybe when I get up some Europeans will be about who can help me with my programming setup questions Jul 26 07:02:28 you too.... cheers Jul 26 07:14:48 Greetings and salutations gentlemen! Jul 26 07:16:07 I'm here to kick some ass and find the .deb file for libglade2-0 (1:2.6.1) and I'm all out of ass. *lol* Jul 26 07:17:43 GF leave ya? Jul 26 07:18:01 ArnimS!!!! I thought you feel off the face of the earth! Jul 26 07:18:11 fell = feel. Jul 26 07:18:49 Holy crap. This is a blast from the past. How are you Arnim? Jul 26 07:21:23 yeah oh well ... alive Jul 26 07:21:42 i had a libglade of some form Addison but no dev box running here Jul 26 07:22:13 http://www.google.com/search?q=libglade+maemo Jul 26 07:22:14 Sorry to hear about your family troubles way back when. Are things finally resolving for you in your life? Jul 26 07:23:09 Yeah, I rifled the whole internet for 3 hours and came up with squadoosh. I hate asking for a favor without at least trying on my own but I'm really stuck on this one. Jul 26 07:23:55 All I can get online is libglade (1.4.2.0) or something similar. Nothing that's up to date, even using the extra repos and junk. Jul 26 07:30:20 I wish Qwerty12 was online right now. I'd really like to ask that twat waffle were he found it. *lol* Jul 26 07:31:14 So what's been up with you Arnim? Anything exciting as of late? Jul 26 07:36:20 Hey, real quick. How can I open up an application from Xterm and have it in full screen mode? I've tried "putty -fullscreen" but that doesn't do poopsquat. Jul 26 07:48:02 no idear, everything i open that goes fullscren via term has the flag in the config somewhere Jul 26 07:48:08 i'd check, but my n810 is dead Jul 26 07:50:16 But do you know the command line acydlord? Jul 26 07:50:49 Isn't it "putty -fullscreen" or "putty -fc" or something like that or am I just confused on this. Jul 26 07:50:58 something like that Jul 26 07:51:23 Well, I've tried those and they don't work, was hoping for an Xterm guru here. :) Jul 26 08:09:22 Morning, all Jul 26 08:09:23 Well, apparently everyone is either passed out or drunk here on a late Friday night. Jul 26 08:09:35 It was really nice almost talking to everyone. *lol* Jul 26 08:09:48 Have a good one guys! Jul 26 08:14:03 Jaffa: 'morning! Jul 26 08:14:12 GNUton: interesting article on p.m.o Jul 26 08:14:17 * Jaffa cinemas. BBL. Jul 26 08:14:35 Jaffa: thank you ;) Jul 26 08:15:17 GNUton: simutrans is there for you to try :) Jul 26 08:20:36 moo all Jul 26 08:21:34 mikkov_: Great! thank you mikkov_! Jul 26 08:27:21 lcuk Jul 26 08:27:48 RST38h, Jul 26 08:28:10 Weird: two more us banks belly up, nothing on google news Jul 26 08:28:47 good morning Jul 26 08:29:40 can somebody help me complete deleting gpe-calender Jul 26 08:30:36 fluentis: mkfs? Jul 26 08:31:02 with all the configuration files? something went wrong and i can't start it after the installation Jul 26 08:31:46 is the some .gpe directory? Jul 26 08:31:57 well, remove package using app manager Jul 26 08:32:20 then look in ~user for data dir and remove it too Jul 26 08:40:01 RST38h, already done, but something still remains i suppose - i'm trying again, right now Jul 26 08:40:24 mikkov_, no more ) Jul 26 08:46:45 btw, the applets, like gpe-summary... where are they stored? Jul 26 08:53:35 because, there is no more sync button on the gpesummary... i think, maybe it's also a config file somewhere... Jul 26 08:58:00 gpe could also use gconf Jul 26 08:58:10 check with gconf-tool Jul 26 08:58:19 ok Jul 26 09:13:12 speaking of gpe summary, is it a way to change colors so its white on black and not other way around? Jul 26 09:17:04 hm, it was not the sync button. it was the refresh button in gpesummary which is now gone... anyby knows how to get him back? Jul 26 09:17:40 where are the applets stored? and their conf files Jul 26 09:25:54 are there anyone alive to helpme with a problem? Jul 26 09:26:07 im |-| close to throwing my n800 out the window Jul 26 09:26:27 Cptnodegard: i'm around, but may only be able to help if i know what the issue is :) Jul 26 09:26:48 osso backup freezes with me Jul 26 09:26:56 after searching ITT i found that claws is causing it Jul 26 09:27:28 there was a solution involving xterm and whatnot but im not a linux guy and have tried to stay away from that stuff, so i just uninstalled it Jul 26 09:27:30 which didnt work Jul 26 09:27:38 because apparently it leaves some shit behind or something Jul 26 09:27:44 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16627 Jul 26 09:27:55 "Are you using Claws and are you confortable with xterm and becomeroot? Jul 26 09:27:56 If no please ignore the rest.. Jul 26 09:27:56 If yes could you do the following? Jul 26 09:27:57 " Jul 26 09:28:05 no im not comfortable with those xd Jul 26 09:28:51 do you have the becomeroot or rootsh thing installed? Jul 26 09:29:00 no Jul 26 09:29:01 and those are comfortable commands, nothing dangerous in them :P Jul 26 09:29:03 dont even know what they are Jul 26 09:29:13 alright, it's stuff that gives you full access to your tablet Jul 26 09:29:18 to fix issues like this Jul 26 09:29:44 in Application Manager, install the program from Maemo extras, called 'rootsh' Jul 26 09:30:10 (i assume you know how to enable maemo extras?) Jul 26 09:30:27 yeah not that dense Jul 26 09:30:32 close, but not that much :) Jul 26 09:30:37 installed Jul 26 09:31:15 okay, open your X Terminal application under 'Utilities' Jul 26 09:31:50 type 'sudo gainroot' without the 's Jul 26 09:31:55 cant i just delete the claws folder with ssh? Jul 26 09:32:10 asi see theres still such a folder there after the uninstall Jul 26 09:32:26 you can try i guess, it shouldn't be harmful Jul 26 09:32:52 i'm just wondering if the claws-mail.conf file in osso-backup is still there though Jul 26 09:33:06 meh ill do the xterm thing. guess that still works after i uninstalled claws because its telling osso backup to ignore claws (?) Jul 26 09:33:31 xterm open Jul 26 09:33:49 yeah, it moves claws out of the way of the eye of osso backup Jul 26 09:34:00 just do the lines in that foru m thread in xterm? Jul 26 09:34:07 yes, the first box Jul 26 09:34:15 if you get any errors, do tell me Jul 26 09:36:30 woo it worked :D thanks a bunch Jul 26 09:36:44 now all i need is a newsletter tellingme when diablo is stable xD Jul 26 09:37:06 heh, i haven't upgraded to diablo yet, i'm just focusing on making a good Debian :P Jul 26 09:37:27 i didnt upgrade because nothing seems to work on it and my backup didnt work Jul 26 09:37:33 how much does backup backup anyways? Jul 26 09:37:41 no clue.. i don't use it Jul 26 09:37:50 meaning what will happeen if i install diablo and select restore? Jul 26 09:37:53 ah Jul 26 09:38:18 I had no problems with restore (that I know of) Jul 26 09:38:43 yeah but what exactly does it restore? does it automatically start istalling your old apps and such? Jul 26 09:38:53 because i have no clue what apps i have installed Jul 26 09:38:56 yes. well, you can choose. Jul 26 09:39:07 and it likely won't be able to install all :) Jul 26 09:39:30 lol i know, hence my other reason not to upgrade Jul 26 09:39:46 the way i figure it my tablet isnt broken so i dont have any reason to fix it Jul 26 09:39:50 slash upgrade Jul 26 09:40:39 another Q... i installed diskusage. it shows 100% on /dev/root. wtf does that mean? Jul 26 09:41:20 not 100% sure, but remember there's a initial filesystem mounted when the tablet boots Jul 26 09:41:23 and that's full Jul 26 09:41:29 ah Jul 26 09:54:09 mplayer (or even xmms with flac.so installed) skips some flacs after a couple secs playtime. ideas? Jul 26 10:34:48 is there some general ipsec support for tablets around ? so i can use it with a normal racoon/strongswan server ? all i have found so far is vpnc that seems to do some sort of ipsec, but in a cisco specific way Jul 26 11:01:05 so, i got the solution... the problem with gpesummary was caused by an update. you know, i forgot the extra-dev testing rep. stupid, isn't it? )) Jul 26 11:01:47 i repeat my q from earlier, anyone know how to change colors of gpe summary? Jul 26 11:02:42 CptLaptop, dunno i dont use the gpe stuff, have you read the docs? Jul 26 11:02:54 the what? Jul 26 11:02:59 manual Jul 26 11:03:01 documentation Jul 26 11:03:02 instructions Jul 26 11:03:04 rtfm? ) Jul 26 11:03:05 stone tablet Jul 26 11:03:20 where are those? Jul 26 11:03:38 i dont expect there to be a normal fix though, there never is with these apps Jul 26 11:03:39 i think they are somewhere on google Jul 26 11:03:59 well gpe is quite a well used framework, i would expect lots of similar questions have been asked Jul 26 11:05:21 yeah but i doubt its skinable beyond the maemo themes Jul 26 11:24:01 rm_you: pong Jul 26 11:24:15 Jaffa: hey Jul 26 11:24:35 what are you doing at the summit aboiut mediaserv/tablet-encode? Jul 26 11:24:47 you doing a demo or anything? Jul 26 11:24:51 I could run one if you' Jul 26 11:24:54 you aren't Jul 26 11:25:03 There's a lightning session and was planning to show both. Now it's only 5 mins and will be whistlestop at best Jul 26 11:25:23 i was thinking about demoing the video capabilities of the tablet Jul 26 11:25:31 and i figured why not show the entire pipeline Jul 26 11:25:44 what do you think? Jul 26 11:25:51 Sounds good Jul 26 11:26:01 k, i'll post something on the wiki page Jul 26 11:28:02 X-Fade: was it you last time that figured out why i couldnt log into the wiki with my normal login info? Jul 26 11:29:59 Jaffa: ah yeah I see that you did have a lightning on tablet-encode Jul 26 11:30:07 yeah 5 minutes isn't long enough to do ANYTHING Jul 26 11:30:19 wtf did they do that for Jul 26 11:32:25 rm_you: to get more in. could do it as an entry point into your later session Jul 26 11:32:58 Jaffa: I was thinking just a longer exhibit sort of thing Jul 26 11:33:18 more like, people wander by and see tablets playing video with mediaserv, and a laptop with tablet-encode running Jul 26 11:33:37 just showing off how well video playback works and how cool the streaming stuff is :P Jul 26 11:34:44 I hate to covert videos, guys. I don't know why, they always appear unsyncronizated Jul 26 11:36:16 wtf do I not have a user page on this wiki? >_> Jul 26 11:36:24 X-Fade: ping Jul 26 11:37:35 Anybody knows a way to install filemanager in scratchbox? I need to test integration with it. Jul 26 11:41:11 so, when are people arriving, in general? Jul 26 11:41:43 what days should I be setting for my arrival/departure dates (from the US, so flights are like 16 hours average) Jul 26 11:43:14 jaffa, :) i got vala working on my tablet, and blafasel has been looking at making a vala binding for liqbase :) Jul 26 11:48:22 rm, im hoping to get there as early as possible on the thursday Jul 26 11:48:27 ah Jul 26 11:48:41 I think I am going to try to be there starting before OSiM Jul 26 11:48:43 but i cant make any plans Jul 26 11:49:08 i figure if i am flying 16 hours to germany I may as well be there for at least most of a week Jul 26 11:49:23 agreed totally Jul 26 11:49:35 especially if jott lets me sleep on his couch :P Jul 26 11:49:48 pupnik_, morning, have you heard anything yet? Jul 26 11:52:37 rm_you, you are staying with jott then? :D Jul 26 11:52:48 we'll see Jul 26 11:53:01 he had to talk it over with his GF ^_^ Jul 26 11:53:07 lol heh Jul 26 11:53:31 hrm, Berlin WelcomeCard, eh? Jul 26 11:53:39 i wonder how much i would need to use transportation Jul 26 11:53:48 Probably not too much? Jul 26 11:53:52 from experience, its the best way to get around Jul 26 11:54:02 the trains are regular and theres lots Jul 26 11:54:11 yeah, we'll see... Jul 26 11:54:33 if I end up at a hostel, there are some very close to the hotel, I am ok with a 10 minute walk or so Jul 26 11:54:38 its a big city - granted a lot of action will be near the hotels etc, but if you are staying outside the centre it may be worthwhile Jul 26 11:54:39 err very close to c-base Jul 26 11:55:06 yeah, i assume if i go places with maemo peepz it will be via public transport :P Jul 26 11:55:30 it will be anyway, i dont think anyone is takign a car Jul 26 11:55:41 hi all Jul 26 11:55:48 mornin florian \o Jul 26 11:56:12 i wonder if I should plan to leave monday to arrive tuesday in berlin <_< Jul 26 11:56:13 probably Jul 26 11:56:22 hmm... c-base would be crowded if everyone i here came to Maemo Summit ;) Jul 26 11:56:42 we have handheld device - standing room wont be a problem ;) Jul 26 11:56:49 heh Jul 26 11:57:35 are you keeping yourself busy then florian Jul 26 11:59:19 lcuk: sure, like always... but today have a Jul 26 11:59:20 # Jul 26 11:59:22 oops Jul 26 11:59:46 yeah will prolly leave Monday in the afternoon sometime, would get me into berlin in the morning of that tuesday Jul 26 12:00:12 florian, i have # oops days a lot :D Jul 26 12:00:45 ... i have non-technical things to do: cutting grass in the garden, renovations and playing with the kids Jul 26 12:01:34 the most important things in the world. do your kids play with your gpe stuff - i use mine as testers, if they manage to break stuff i know to fix it Jul 26 12:01:35 * florian types with one hand, the other is occupied with the baby Jul 26 12:05:17 lcuk: not yet... Jonas is two years and Jana thre months old, so most applications ate not that interesting for them :) Jul 26 12:07:15 awww gpe-nursery and gpe-bottletime would be a good starter apps ;) Jul 26 12:12:00 gpe-FEEDME Jul 26 12:12:27 Babies are so selfish Jul 26 12:12:37 didnt know you were still a baby :P Jul 26 12:12:40 it's always "me me me, change me, feed me, me me me !" Jul 26 12:13:12 The day I'll have kids Jul 26 12:13:32 I'll just leave the Earth Jul 26 12:13:43 I'll go see my man GeneralAntilles, whereever he is Jul 26 12:14:00 when I'll come back, they'll be 30, good time to get to know my kids Jul 26 12:14:07 ah kids are fun... epecially the time they are learning to speak is fun :) Jul 26 12:14:24 my kids are gonna suffer Jul 26 12:14:32 yes, mine got in trouble for swearing at a teacher :S :D Jul 26 12:14:41 3 languages to learn :D Jul 26 12:15:14 I remember getting in trouble for telling my computer teacher to go f*ck herself Jul 26 12:15:24 In like 5th grade Jul 26 12:15:35 when then, last week? Jul 26 12:15:41 lol Jul 26 12:15:43 no, school's out for more than month Jul 26 12:15:48 it was when he was young Jul 26 12:15:49 so long ago Jul 26 12:15:52 about 3 months Jul 26 12:15:56 haha Jul 26 12:16:22 lcuk tried to insult his teachers when he was young Jul 26 12:16:33 but because he's a northerner, the teachers couldn't understand him Jul 26 12:16:44 * florian trew eggs at them ;) Jul 26 12:16:48 so they just gave a B for effort "must try harder" Jul 26 12:16:52 crashanddie: go play with your 0000014122996 :P Jul 26 12:17:01 rm_you, that's not a prime Jul 26 12:17:44 crashanddie: i wonder what it *is* then? hmmm... guess you will figure it out eventually :P Jul 26 12:18:12 rm_you, it's a non-prime number :) Jul 26 12:18:33 rm_you, how old are you ? Jul 26 12:18:42 21 Jul 26 12:18:50 hmm Jul 26 12:18:53 lolol Jul 26 12:18:58 lol Jul 26 12:18:59 rm_you, thats the fleshlight thing Jul 26 12:19:03 lcuk: yes :P Jul 26 12:19:10 fleshlight ? Jul 26 12:19:10 lcuk: was gonna let him figure it out :P Jul 26 12:19:18 crashanddie: check a UPC database :P Jul 26 12:19:48 OOHH Jul 26 12:19:50 crashanddie, the UPC database is full of random amazing things which im shocked are products Jul 26 12:19:58 OMG Jul 26 12:20:17 AH Jul 26 12:20:19 crashanddie: be sure to do a google image search for it Jul 26 12:20:21 AAAARRRRGHHHHH Jul 26 12:20:23 lol Jul 26 12:24:21 what I'd like to know Jul 26 12:24:33 is how come you know that number off the top of your head ? Jul 26 12:25:03 or maybe off the top of something else Jul 26 12:25:14 well, bottom, really Jul 26 12:26:34 lol Jul 26 12:27:33 I asked lcuk the same thing about 0031901925482 :P Jul 26 12:28:51 well ima try to get a few more hours of sleep before i have a lunch appointment tomorrow Jul 26 12:29:01 so, peace out :) Jul 26 12:29:54 funny, the tablet decieds that the battery is near empty. then i just leave it alone, and now it shows a full battery again :S Jul 26 12:34:20 How I can launch an application via d-bus from command-line? Jul 26 12:42:13 zap, with dbus-send most probably Jul 26 12:42:44 I can do dbus-launch myprog, but I want to launch it by interface name, something like dbus-launch org.maemo.myprog Jul 26 12:43:00 because for some reason it does not start from the menu, but starts fine from command line Jul 26 12:43:07 something like this, I guess Jul 26 12:43:08 dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.osso_browser \ Jul 26 12:43:08 --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser/request \ Jul 26 12:43:08 com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url string:"$1" Jul 26 12:43:21 check the man pages for more info Jul 26 12:43:56 thank you for the initial kick :) Jul 26 12:45:29 zap, one of my current sideprojects is to transfer a file/launch it to the NIT from my desktop/laptop Jul 26 12:45:46 zap, like, right click on a file, and select "send to NIT" Jul 26 12:47:08 via what? Jul 26 12:47:12 zap, I use osso to open a file based on its MIME extension through DBUS, if you want, I can share the results of my work Jul 26 12:47:31 zap, I wrote a small daemon which accepts a link/url and opens it Jul 26 12:47:50 thank you, for now I don't know what to do with it :) Jul 26 12:48:34 zap - its gonna be a wicked simple thing Jul 26 12:49:05 you are using your desktop now - being able to download a deb or a binary and sending it direct to your NIT without messing Jul 26 12:49:32 * lcuk thinkgs crashanddie's idea is great Jul 26 12:49:37 lcuk, feature request, enable the liqbase editor to be launched from DBUS so that I could send a source file real quick :P Jul 26 12:50:06 well, it already works :) Jul 26 12:50:29 I have a command line client, dunno if it compiles under windows Jul 26 12:50:54 anyway Jul 26 12:50:55 back to work Jul 26 12:51:29 isnt there a wiki page on what apps dont work well in diablo yet? when i goto mameo.org and wiki i get a blank page Jul 26 12:51:38 refresh Jul 26 12:51:40 refresh a couple of times Jul 26 12:52:13 :) Jul 26 12:53:42 now if i could just find that list xD Jul 26 12:53:55 there we go Jul 26 12:54:20 bbl Jul 26 12:54:45 crashanddie, does every application need to register itself in DBUS, and does it need app changes and a daemon or once registered for a MIME type it will call the registered binary with params? Jul 26 12:55:25 lcuk, second, I think, no clue, really Jul 26 12:55:39 Cptnodegard: mind sharing the link? (if you found the list) Jul 26 12:58:57 lcuk: cool stuff (on vala) Jul 26 12:59:13 lcuk: put some notes on using it from the tablet in the wiki page? Jul 26 13:00:26 i compiled a total of 2 programs (hello world and the cairo demo) Jul 26 13:00:42 its unfortunately too slow for me to do more with for now Jul 26 13:00:51 but that may change Jul 26 13:01:13 Yeah, it's faster than C++ but not as fast as native C it seems due to the garbage collection/ref counting overhead Jul 26 13:01:22 if the bindings for liqbase work then it becomes possible to use more Jul 26 13:01:29 actually its slower than c++ Jul 26 13:01:41 maybe end code is faster, but compilation is slower Jul 26 13:02:03 ah, perhaps. Jul 26 13:02:27 its a seriously interesting project though and im gonna keep hacking away at it Jul 26 13:02:44 im thinking of a possible scenario for all this kind of compilation where i use a webservice for building Jul 26 13:02:55 that could be cool Jul 26 13:02:56 like your autobuilder but on a private server Jul 26 13:03:27 sync or svn or git the changes up, build the modified elements and send me the binary Jul 26 13:03:31 You could approach it as a CI (continuous integration) and use svn as your backend. Every commit gets rebuilt and you can download the binary a few seconds later Jul 26 13:04:04 yes, like now i only build the couple of modules that have changed on a normal make Jul 26 13:04:42 after gaining the freedom to compile on the go, im loathed to give it up Jul 26 13:05:14 obviously better hardware would negate the slowness but im thinking with whats around now. either that or i can just stick with native fast c for now Jul 26 13:09:08 Jaffa: what you suggest sounds pretty wasteful Jul 26 13:22:09 RST38h: what do you mean? Jul 26 13:22:41 Jaffa: useful if you have testers with time for regression bisecting but no build env Jul 26 13:23:26 Useful for all manner of reasons. For example, your unit tests get run as part of the build, and if any fail the build is marked as a failure and notification sent to the committer + anyone else relevant. Jul 26 13:24:21 a random example of another approach is http://wiki.mozilla.org/Build:TryServer Jul 26 13:25:01 or, "how to run tests on a bunch of platforms, too" Jul 26 13:25:15 Interesting Jul 26 13:28:48 and, say, http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/thunderbird/tinderbox-builds/comm-central-linux/ for the other one Jul 26 13:29:37 * sp3000 isn't up to speed on the hg migration quite enough to find which vcs browser ui links to those builds Jul 26 13:46:16 Jaffa: I mean that a trivial change to a header file may cause the complete project recompilation when committrd Jul 26 13:47:03 Jaffa: and THEN you are forced to download 100-800k executable back from svn Jul 26 13:47:27 and there may be multiple developers using the same server too Jul 26 13:48:23 So your development cycle becomes longer than if you were compiling directly on the tablet Jul 26 13:50:08 RST38h: binaries shouldn't be committed to subversion Jul 26 13:50:32 and MUCH longer than compiling on a pc connected to tablet via wifi or bt Jul 26 13:50:36 * Jaffa was talking about general CI. Jul 26 13:50:48 what is CI? Jul 26 13:54:46 http://martinfowler.com/articles/continuousIntegration.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_Integration Jul 26 13:56:49 RST38h, there will be a breakeven point between local compilation and uploading modified source and downloading the completely binary. currently even simple basic applications in vala take > 45 seconds to compile in vala on the device. any improvement on that is great news for me. same principle applies for most other slower languages, but with different breakeven poitns Jul 26 14:12:25 Jaffa: sorry, I am on a phone Jul 26 14:12:41 Jaffa: cant even copy url into the berowser Jul 26 14:12:53 lcuk: guess so Jul 26 14:13:20 RST38h: basically it's an approach increasing numbers of software development teams are using to ensure the build never breaks. Jul 26 14:13:34 lcuk: but then, you may be better off developing on a remote machine and doing scp to the tablet when needed Jul 26 14:13:59 Jaffa: I am not a huge fan of never-breaking-builds Jul 26 14:14:56 Jaffa: I think sacrificing everything else to this goal ultimately prevents any development from happening Jul 26 14:16:12 "Everything else" isn't sacrificed though. And the definition of "broken" includes failing unit tests where a developer may not have realised there was an impact (particularly in edge-cases). Similarly, it usually doesn't happen on branches, but on the trunk. Jul 26 14:16:34 * Jaffa shrugs - works for our company. Each to their own. Jul 26 14:16:53 Jaffa: Our unit tests at work run for 8+ hours Jul 26 14:17:20 Then nightly or weekly automated tests ;-) Jul 26 14:19:41 Jaffa: do you suggest we run them every time a function name is changed or comment added? Jul 26 14:19:52 No, of course not if they take 8 hours. Jul 26 14:20:12 * Jaffa didn't suggest this was a) mandatory or b) a panacea. Just another tool. Jul 26 14:20:26 yes, but you initially suggested full compile and test cycle for every commit Jul 26 14:20:49 and no local compilation Jul 26 14:21:11 And for some people full compile & test cycle on every commit is possible. Jul 26 14:21:35 for some - yes Jul 26 14:21:42 * Jaffa didn't say no local compilation, either. lcuk was looking for off-site compilation; I suggested a CI-like approach. Jul 26 14:22:03 ah Jul 26 14:22:37 lcuk: remote linux machine + shell account + scp at the end of your default makefile target Jul 26 14:23:35 vi, pico, or emacs for editing of course Jul 26 14:24:49 you may also run x11 apps using n8x0 as an x11 terminal, but it is kinda masochistic Jul 26 14:28:18 RST38h, problem there is i want the source and binary to be actual local files and able to run and operate locally without a network: i just need a faster compilation method as jaffa pointed out Jul 26 14:28:41 why is it that people keep wanting to turn the tablet into a phone? Jul 26 14:30:07 http://trac.tspre.org/svn/nit-debian/dependancies/parted.deb <- GNU Parted 0.3.8 for maemo (dep: libreadline5, ncurses-base and libncurses5), if anyone is interested :P Jul 26 14:30:47 lcuk: I am pretty sure there should be a virtual ftp fs that you can use for that Jul 26 14:30:55 or nfs Jul 26 14:31:19 although it will inevitably be slower Jul 26 14:32:12 maybe just write to scripts: tablet2remote and remote2tablet that sync local and remote dirs? Jul 26 14:32:40 ughm... what means the "top_application" popup which appears when I launch my application? Jul 26 14:33:08 you created your top widget as a popup? Jul 26 14:33:29 with top/application as text? Jul 26 14:33:45 no, as a HildonWindow Jul 26 14:34:05 what is attached under it? Jul 26 14:34:19 it's the main app window, with a toolbar and a menu Jul 26 14:34:48 I don't have a "top_application" string anywhere in my program, it's hildon who pops it up Jul 26 14:35:18 weird Jul 26 14:35:48 looks like its libhildonwm.so Jul 26 14:35:48 may it be a default widget attached to hildonwindow? Jul 26 14:36:01 It does not appear if I start my app from command line Jul 26 14:36:07 only if I start it via the menu Jul 26 14:36:15 wait Jul 26 14:36:30 you are starting it as a dbus service? Jul 26 14:36:35 right? Jul 26 14:37:56 Um, I'm not too common with dbus yet Jul 26 14:38:18 I have X-Osso-Service=org.maemo.blah in my .desktop file Jul 26 14:38:26 but you do have dbus initialization code, .service file, etc? Jul 26 14:38:30 yes Jul 26 14:38:33 all right Jul 26 14:38:58 the popup you see is a notification from wm starting your program Jul 26 14:39:36 it should really have your app name there, but somehow you did not set the app name properly Jul 26 14:39:43 hmm Jul 26 14:40:01 no Jul 26 14:40:08 I first see a popup with my app name Jul 26 14:40:13 and then another popup appears Jul 26 14:40:25 umgh Jul 26 14:40:34 weird x2 Jul 26 14:40:38 indeed Jul 26 14:40:51 I'll look into libhildonwm0 now, I found top_application in the binary .so Jul 26 14:40:59 (phone battery will run out any moment now) Jul 26 14:41:20 ugh, why do i even bother to read that N900 thread any more, let alone answer it? Jul 26 14:41:36 tso: acquired taste? Jul 26 14:41:59 watching fanboys salivate over what would be? Jul 26 14:42:49 btw, some "technology analyst" company predicted android and symbian merging! :) Jul 26 14:43:45 w...t...f Jul 26 14:44:39 must be some really good mushrooms Jul 26 14:45:00 heh Jul 26 14:45:20 im more worried about the andoird leadership, but thats me... Jul 26 14:45:43 i just dont trust anyone that have worked for apple to have openness as their primary motivation... Jul 26 14:55:45 tablets-dev.nokia.com is so broken Jul 26 14:55:59 oh, balls. Lots of OSS developers and even projects have come out of companies people would "never trust" Jul 26 14:56:19 I worked for Apple, there's a lot of support for openness. Jul 26 14:57:27 Aside from the community support, the internal support, there's also a recognition in the company that OSS has had a positive bottom line effect on the company Jul 26 14:57:44 What pisses people off is that Apple sees no reason to get religious about it. Jul 26 14:58:33 its not really about religion but rather about deeds Jul 26 14:58:48 fact is, apple platforms are pretty closed Jul 26 15:00:20 Not any more closed than Nokia's. Jul 26 15:00:40 and stuff like WebKit speaks pretty well. Jul 26 15:01:32 actually it's more, because Maemo is gtk-based Jul 26 15:01:46 so you have like, say, 80% of the system open-sourced Jul 26 15:02:37 erm Jul 26 15:02:44 The platform stuff is mostly-ish open Jul 26 15:02:51 everything on top is closed. Jul 26 15:02:55 Pretty much just like Apple. Jul 26 15:03:09 is the widget toolkit open on macs? Jul 26 15:03:45 the analogues of hal, dbus, glib, gtk, hildon? Jul 26 15:04:46 as far as I understand only the Mach microkernel is open, and GPL stuff compiled for macs, and things like CUPS - opensource projects acquired by apple Jul 26 15:06:07 agreed. Imho, Apple is not more open that they need to be to be in compliance with what they are using. Jul 26 15:06:17 thats it Jul 26 15:06:36 on the other hand, Nokia could not open the Hildon framework, it would perfectly comply with LGPL Jul 26 15:07:06 Nokia should also become more open, imho :) Jul 26 15:07:15 no question here :) Jul 26 15:07:33 symbian really pisses me off these days. Jul 26 15:08:07 don't scratch it Jul 26 15:12:53 Palm still makes me angriest. There's NOTHING really WRONG with garnet Jul 26 15:13:16 If they'd just fix the three things, i'd never leave the palm platform for mobile computing. Jul 26 15:13:58 when money talks technology listens :( Jul 26 15:17:12 kpel: not in this case. It's been perfectly obvious for years that fixing the background network connection issues and getting an updated browser working would have a huge effect Jul 26 15:17:24 removing the tether is a bit less obvious. Jul 26 15:19:07 koyote: and is it not the case that somebody thought that the benefit of all this would not be justified by the risk/investment? Jul 26 15:19:40 in the sense that the benefit would be too small Jul 26 15:19:51 probably they are worried about the competition Jul 26 15:22:25 hi I need to upgrade to Diablo Jul 26 15:22:34 but where in the Documentation can I find this Jul 26 15:25:54 found it Jul 26 15:27:12 JZA, next time, search for 10 minutes before asking? :P Jul 26 15:27:30 crashanddie well actually still havent found it Jul 26 15:27:36 flasher-3.0 site seems to be down Jul 26 15:27:43 not sure if they relocated it Jul 26 15:27:57 yeah, it would appear it has been down for a couple of days now Jul 26 15:28:08 Are DBUS object names unique within a single address, or they must be unique globally? Jul 26 15:28:22 crashanddie any way to get it otherwise Jul 26 15:28:25 isn't there some sort of file repository maintained by nokia? Jul 26 15:28:30 you know, for packages and docs Jul 26 15:28:40 JZA, no mirrors I know of, and I wouldn't trust it Jul 26 15:29:00 crashanddie so i can't do much? Jul 26 15:29:05 JZA: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010 Jul 26 15:29:09 zap, I think it's like Java, don't make collisions, and you won't have to find out Jul 26 15:29:29 Thats for the N800 at least Jul 26 15:29:40 neilpwc, that's for windows Jul 26 15:29:46 neilpwc, and the downloader uses the same repository Jul 26 15:29:52 neilpwc, so it wouldn't work anyway Jul 26 15:30:13 neilpwc: thanks but thats for windows, would they also publish the linux version? Jul 26 15:32:09 JZA, the linux version is on the repo Jul 26 15:32:19 JZA, which is offline Jul 26 15:32:23 crashanddie right Jul 26 15:32:46 crashanddie and I guess the Diablo image is on the same repo Jul 26 15:32:50 aye Jul 26 15:32:56 thanks for your help Jul 26 15:33:10 you can always try to contact Nokia to get things going Jul 26 15:33:45 neah is ok, I wont die cuz diablo would be late on my pocket Jul 26 15:34:22 btw is root handle the sameway in diablo than chinook Jul 26 15:34:27 ssh root@localhost Jul 26 15:34:46 how do i view PMs in xchat onj n810? Jul 26 15:34:58 lcuk, click on the name that appears ? Jul 26 15:35:14 no name appears Jul 26 15:35:40 me2 is my 810, but everytime i try to paste a link i cant see it Jul 26 15:35:42 double-click on a name Jul 26 15:35:45 lcuk, did you turn off the sidebar/buttonbar that shows the channels? Jul 26 15:35:59 probably Jul 26 15:36:09 or enter /DIALOG Jul 26 15:36:11 crashanddie so I am here, where will I see a .bin stored Jul 26 15:36:13 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/ Jul 26 15:36:49 lcuk, I did like I told you last time, put the bar on the bottom Jul 26 15:36:59 Hi everyone Jul 26 15:37:13 JZA, that is the repository for applications Jul 26 15:37:16 it doesnt do that on 810 Jul 26 15:37:29 ok thought images could be here as well Jul 26 15:37:33 oops Jul 26 15:37:56 JZA, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php that is where you're supposed to get the images from... But sadly, it's down Jul 26 15:38:07 I hate to ask, but I am completely out of ideas, I am looking for the 2007HE it's not on the nokia website http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/, and i've also tried bit torrent. I've googled and still nothing... anyone have a copy? Jul 26 15:38:13 "show channel switcher at: HIDDEN Jul 26 15:38:18 * lcuk facepalms Jul 26 15:38:36 bottlecap, think the website is down Jul 26 15:38:55 crashanddie different question, how do I know whcih exact version am I running? Jul 26 15:39:02 *which Jul 26 15:39:25 JZA, look in settings -> control panel -> about Jul 26 15:39:28 * aquatix might have one Jul 26 15:39:43 aquatix, even if you do, I wouldn't recommend sending it out Jul 26 15:39:50 yeah Jul 26 15:39:52 "NIT Flash images repository is down, don't ask, we don't have a copy" yikes as soon as I get a copy I am so putting it on torrent Jul 26 15:40:02 bottlecap, don't, please Jul 26 15:40:29 okay crashanddie, I'll assume you've got a good reason. Jul 26 15:40:39 kpel: mostly it seems to have been internal politiucs and a belief in some seriously atmospheric vaporware Jul 26 15:41:03 You'd have a hard time convincing me that putting oout an updated and working browser would make them less competitive Jul 26 15:41:16 bottlecap: i think it's best to keep copies of the image in one place Jul 26 15:41:19 crashanddie, the last time there were problems accessing the official Nokia site for firmware updates Nokia thanked people for mirroring... Jul 26 15:41:45 bottlecap, there's a reason we never switched to bittorrent. The images are copyrighted, and you need a license to use it. IANAL, but I'd guess you would be liable if you distributed an image that borked people's tablets Jul 26 15:42:06 That's why there's a MAC address check before being allowed to download it Jul 26 15:42:16 koyote: oh no, i'm not saying that. i said that someone THOUGHT so :) Jul 26 15:42:20 heh...even Nokia's not liable. They have that nice warranty disclaimer Jul 26 15:43:48 I dunno, I just don't feel distributing the images over bittorrent is a thing for official images Jul 26 15:44:02 koyote: probably the suits thought that the vapourware you mentioned was the way to go. Jul 26 15:44:05 if nokia would open source all their stuff it wouldnt matter about copyright anymore :D Jul 26 15:44:11 lcuk, true Jul 26 15:44:28 or rather, would put their software under a permissive license Jul 26 15:44:50 lcuk: sure, and there wouldn't be nokia anymore :) Jul 26 15:44:52 I just found this: Nokia's release of the N800 in January 2007 brought Internet Tablet OS 2007. OS2007 ran only on the N800 and Nokia initially had no plans to release it for the 770; however feedback from disgruntled 770 owners[27] led Nokia to release an unsupported hybrid of OS2006 and OS2007, dubbed Internet Tablet OS 2007 Hacker Edition, in February 2007.[28] OS2007HE combined the binary parts of OS2006 with most of Jul 26 15:44:58 from wikipedia Jul 26 15:45:11 what would be the issue of having firmware images on a .torrent that's locked behind a htpasswd / auth form? Jul 26 15:45:12 kpel - amazing news, where can i download open source hardware ??? Jul 26 15:45:23 where you give MAC Jul 26 15:45:25 lcuk: sourceforge :P Jul 26 15:46:12 lcuk: seriously now, do you believe that an army of stalmanists will ever manage to replace the corporate world and the research they are doing? Jul 26 15:46:23 "Please wait, downloading USS Enterprise, 3.4% complete" Jul 26 15:46:38 even if you add the bsd crowd again things don't look good Jul 26 15:46:41 lcuk I'd love to see the size of that HD Jul 26 15:46:56 not at all, but all companies can benefit from openness Jul 26 15:47:23 lcuk: how? i mean how will the engineer, the tester and the janitor of company X benefit from opensource? Jul 26 15:47:42 an experimental zone where new ideas can be tested and validated is vital to a company: why not let the actual customers have a go themselves Jul 26 15:47:44 most probably the suits will fire them all and expect the opensource crowd to do all the work Jul 26 15:48:58 lcuk: experimental is the key word here. an experiment is different than the official policy. i'm all for such bold experiments but i think that switching the universe to opensource in one night will have serious socioeconomical consequences Jul 26 15:49:28 99.9% of customers will not even know what source is Jul 26 15:49:32 lcuk, ETA: Stardate 123566.41780821928 Jul 26 15:49:37 :D Jul 26 15:49:45 (and yes, that is an actual stardate) Jul 26 15:49:58 it all boils down to the greedy investors who sit on top of each company. As we all know, the excrement flow downwards. Jul 26 15:49:59 Source, isn't that were the matrix comes from? Jul 26 15:50:11 loads of people use firefox everyday without caring that its open, and even those that do cannot just take it all and replace the app because ONE thing prevents it Jul 26 15:50:27 no matter how open your code is, if someone takes a fork it can never be called the same as yours Jul 26 15:50:30 lcuk: precisely! customers don't know, and they don't want to know Jul 26 15:50:34 brand recognition Jul 26 15:50:37 bottlecap, I think it came from a script, really Jul 26 15:50:57 exactly, people don't care about opensource. they care about free. Not Free, free :) Jul 26 15:51:38 people do not mind paying for tools (i hope i got the right meaning of free ) Jul 26 15:52:12 hmmm, i think we are talking about people that are different than the customers of companies such as nokia Jul 26 15:52:15 just because there is a recipe available - im still gonna buy delicious angel cakes :) Jul 26 15:52:35 lcuk: you don't mind buying a bluetooth headset from the nokia website? are you that rich? :) Jul 26 15:52:40 lcuk, well in fact, the real recipe for delicious angel cakes isn't available Jul 26 15:53:03 lcuk, so you'd get something that is healthier, cheaper, and most of all, you know what ingredients go in it (not 3 tons of sugar) Jul 26 15:53:05 kpel - if it fitted with my style and i could afford it why not? Jul 26 15:53:12 people want something practical at the lowest possible price Jul 26 15:53:23 if it looks/feels/sounds cool, even better Jul 26 15:53:41 yer, and you buy matching kitchen appliances where possible Jul 26 15:53:52 its stupid to spend loads on a fridget then scrimp on the rest Jul 26 15:54:19 lcuk: so the problem is threefold: you have to make and more importantly, you have to SELL low-cost, functional, good-looking products. Jul 26 15:54:22 of course if you cant afford it all at the offered price you do what you can (i just finished downloading a toaster) Jul 26 15:54:46 I don't mind paying for open tools Jul 26 15:54:56 but I won't take even for free closed tools Jul 26 15:54:57 nor do i Jul 26 15:54:58 there is no way to achieve those objectives just by throwing a source code at the masses. Jul 26 15:55:08 i never said there was? Jul 26 15:55:28 but having an open philosophy allows both parties to win Jul 26 15:55:32 throwing source code at the masses is not a silver bullet Jul 26 15:55:39 those which want to play: can, those that dont care can stay ignorant Jul 26 15:55:40 win win Jul 26 15:55:45 it's just one of the components of the success Jul 26 15:56:05 there is a slight problem here of course: competition Jul 26 15:56:40 company X opens protocols/formats/code to world+dog. Then the competitors become stronger and possible new competitors appear Jul 26 15:56:50 there's a special word for that: fair competition Jul 26 15:56:52 yes, and you know what Jul 26 15:57:03 and of course the investors of X are not happy and X starts firing people to cut costs. Jul 26 15:57:07 because of the license it means that any advantage my competitor gets from me i can get back from them Jul 26 15:57:12 but i have brand recognition Jul 26 15:57:23 crap now the maemo wiki is down Jul 26 15:57:43 lcuk: but this means that there will be no differentation Jul 26 15:57:46 if source code is released as GPL, the competitor won't be able to make closed derivates Jul 26 15:57:47 right now, liqbase is open source. it beats the pants of anything else graphically on this system. if someone comes up with something better using mine as a base then i can make mine better Jul 26 15:57:54 of course it does Jul 26 15:58:01 so the original company will gain from any enhancements second company does Jul 26 15:58:05 it takes time to market and the competition must be serious Jul 26 15:58:39 you can take my code (please do) and make improvements to it. but you cannot call yours liqbase Jul 26 15:58:49 but the companies want to differentiate. how will company X attract more customers than Y otherwise? Jul 26 15:58:52 you can go into direct competition with me Jul 26 15:58:55 odd question to the whole a2dp discussion - would A2DP be so battery intensive if you just had .sbc files to play / send to the headset? Jul 26 15:58:56 lcuk: is your app GPL? Jul 26 15:58:59 yes Jul 26 15:59:07 who made the load applet? Jul 26 15:59:08 then I can :-P Jul 26 15:59:14 Stskeeps, shouldn't be. :) Jul 26 15:59:22 zap :) i would love you to: this tablet NEEDS decent graphics Jul 26 15:59:23 lcuk: you're mixing opensource and trademarks Jul 26 15:59:36 its my product, im allowed to Jul 26 15:59:41 lcuk: I mean, I can fork your liqbase and still call it liqbase Jul 26 15:59:47 no you cant Jul 26 16:00:09 is it a registered trademark of yours? Jul 26 16:00:09 if you trademark liqbase name, then no Jul 26 16:00:10 look at firefox: why hasnt microsoft brought out their version of firefox using the code? Jul 26 16:00:27 that'd be surrendering ;) Jul 26 16:00:28 lcuk: because people would say bad things about m$ Jul 26 16:00:40 lcuk: better tell about iceweasel Jul 26 16:00:45 like 'm$ can't write code anymore, they just steal opensource; Jul 26 16:00:50 iceweasel is not firefox though Jul 26 16:00:57 johnx: so i could basically just encode my collection of mp3s into .sbc, store .. except something tells me sbc files are horrendously huge compared to mp3? Jul 26 16:00:58 and iceweasel does not have 17billion users Jul 26 16:00:58 it is, but it isn't Jul 26 16:01:02 lcuk: they could do it secretly (by adding ff stuff in IE) but if they got caught that would be embarassing Jul 26 16:01:06 BRAND recognition Jul 26 16:01:08 iceweasel is debian's patched firefox Jul 26 16:01:27 yes, but they cant say it is firefox Jul 26 16:01:30 lcuk: brand is dust Jul 26 16:01:31 they can say its based on it Jul 26 16:01:35 plus m$ uses the browser as a means of user lockin. why would they use something more oriented towards openness? Jul 26 16:01:38 opensource has nothing to do with brands Jul 26 16:01:42 Stskeeps, yeah, pretty much. also, a2dp is much better these days Jul 26 16:01:57 johnx: i should try it sometime again. does it work for debian yet? *ducks* Jul 26 16:02:10 Stskeeps, it worked in beta3. Did you break it? :P Jul 26 16:02:15 johnx: no clue Jul 26 16:02:29 I am a Ubuntu user, I burned my windows COA Jul 26 16:02:45 lcuk: so far opensource lives fine without brands and trademarks, and I don't see any probs in future with it Jul 26 16:02:46 Stskeeps, actually, it should work fine as it avoids all the wacky nokia sound stuff entirely Jul 26 16:02:47 bottlecap: meh. you could sell it instead of burning it Jul 26 16:02:50 zap :) brand is still important Jul 26 16:02:58 bottlecap: and donate money / make a open source bounty Jul 26 16:03:41 johnx: i added gnu parted as an option for partitioner btw (can't get gnome parted ported though cos of gtkmm's.. maemoities) Jul 26 16:04:06 johnx: it's good for those running installer in osso-xterm, and can resize filesystems (not only their partitions) Jul 26 16:04:15 Stskeeps, nice Jul 26 16:04:29 zap: brand is very important. and i would say that opensource coexists with the corporations. it cannot exist without them. you can't expect firefox to have a huge userbase without a version for windows. Jul 26 16:04:40 johnx: but has a user interface that's about as obvious as sfdisk Jul 26 16:04:41 :P Jul 26 16:04:41 Stskeeps, hmm, my debian install just stopped booting :/ Jul 26 16:04:49 johnx: fsck error? Jul 26 16:04:58 yeah Jul 26 16:05:04 I donate to GNU yearly Jul 26 16:05:05 Device or resource busy? Jul 26 16:05:12 yup :) Jul 26 16:05:17 psychic? Jul 26 16:05:27 no, i had same problem, and it baffles me totally Jul 26 16:05:33 try fsck it from maemo and then try again Jul 26 16:05:40 I just did Jul 26 16:05:46 didn't work? Jul 26 16:05:54 same problem Jul 26 16:05:56 hmm. Jul 26 16:05:57 I'll look at it Jul 26 16:06:04 kpel agreed, corproations can support and sponsor open source projects and help nurture them and get the best for their corporate needs. being a backer of OSS nowadays is seen as a positive direction for companies to go down Jul 26 16:06:14 johnx: i haven't had it happen after i moved to ext3 atleast Jul 26 16:06:15 and yes, windows versions help Jul 26 16:06:42 * kpel nods Jul 26 16:07:38 basicaly, diversity in general helps. Jul 26 16:07:44 yup Jul 26 16:07:54 i would love to have a linux version of Nokia PC Suite Jul 26 16:08:02 incidentally, ive not seen you in chan before, have you seen liqbase? Jul 26 16:08:33 it would be good to install the nokia pc suite on your nokia tablet Jul 26 16:09:02 lcuk: i don't come here very often. Not enough time :) And no,i didn't have the joy to see libqbase. I once experimented with libSDL but didn't do anything fancier than simple line drawing Jul 26 16:09:13 lcuk, think that's encrypted enough: http://undercity.doesntexist.com/~crashanddie/cphp/data.php?year=2008&name=testcondstat ? Jul 26 16:09:15 :D Jul 26 16:09:18 i'll google it now Jul 26 16:09:27 :) Jul 26 16:10:38 seems reasonable crashanddie Jul 26 16:10:51 thought so :) Jul 26 16:10:57 but you should use more than rot13. perhaps if you ran it twice it would help Jul 26 16:11:10 that's not rot13 :) Jul 26 16:11:18 Proper rot26 is inherently secure. Jul 26 16:11:41 lol Jul 26 16:11:51 How is rot26 inherently secure??? Jul 26 16:12:03 people will try to decipher it and garbage will result :P Jul 26 16:12:07 haha Jul 26 16:12:17 its encrypted and recoverable. ive worked out a method to reverse the encryption :D Jul 26 16:12:18 Proper rot26, mind. You need to construct your plaintext carefully as not to endager the ciphertext. Jul 26 16:12:41 With what, gpg -ea? Jul 26 16:12:51 johnx: Capn_Fish had same issue at some point - he moved SD card to his desktop and fscked it there atleast Jul 26 16:13:03 Shirley not, there's enough resources in the human brain for creating proper plaintexts. Jul 26 16:13:22 "proper"? Jul 26 16:13:31 Stskeeps, I'll try to force a fsck and see what happens. it didn't fsck on os2008 because it claimed to be clean Jul 26 16:15:25 K I'm out! Jul 26 16:19:27 What was the point of my wikipedia quote? . . . Jul 26 16:19:53 what quote? Jul 26 16:20:33 Will Maemo eventually migrate to WebKit as GNOME and KDE are doing? Jul 26 16:21:37 lol: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=207307&postcount=79 Jul 26 16:21:56 lcuk, about the Hacker Editions Jul 26 16:22:06 robink, nothing has been announced. Jul 26 16:22:10 GeneralAntilles: OK Jul 26 16:23:45 I'd like to see WebKit as an option alongside Gecko. Jul 26 16:24:32 Can't resolve the Nokia repos on the tablet. . . . Jul 26 16:26:07 I like how there isn't a single person at Nokia on weekends to make sure their shitty servers stay up. Jul 26 16:26:21 You'd figure with as many weekends as the damn things go down they'd figure it out. Jul 26 16:30:16 GeneralAntilles, it's been down since thursday IIRC Jul 26 16:30:25 the guy is probably on holiday Jul 26 16:31:06 I used it Friday. Jul 26 16:31:13 So not Thursday. Jul 26 16:31:45 and the guy was talking to my Friday morning. Jul 26 16:33:25 s/my/me/ Jul 26 16:33:26 GeneralAntilles meant: and the guy was talking to me Friday morning. Jul 26 16:37:48 hmm, anyone happens to have the firmware of Diablo for the N800 hosted somewhere? http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php seems down... Jul 26 16:38:06 lorelei_: read the topic Jul 26 16:38:34 JZA: woops, thanks.... Jul 26 17:12:07 <[1]gustnado> anyone here? Jul 26 17:13:03 no Jul 26 17:16:40 <[1]gustnado> anyone here use eclipse for development? Jul 26 17:17:03 no Jul 26 17:17:51 <[1]gustnado> why not? Jul 26 17:18:06 no Jul 26 17:18:14 <[1]gustnado> no Jul 26 17:18:20 no Jul 26 17:18:28 i dont use it cos i prefer komodo Jul 26 17:18:37 <[1]gustnado> komodo is? Jul 26 17:18:44 a dragon Jul 26 17:18:48 and also an editor Jul 26 17:18:58 http://www.no-pest.com/KomodoDragon.jpg Jul 26 17:19:03 "no" pest Jul 26 17:19:03 xD Jul 26 17:19:32 <[1]gustnado> oh. I use eclipse a lot on other projects (C and Java) - it is an IDE, not just an editor. Someone built one for maemo development but I can't figure out how to use it right Jul 26 17:19:50 <[1]gustnado> btw, komodo is actually a big lizard, called a dragon Jul 26 17:20:00 <[1]gustnado> :-) Jul 26 17:20:34 yer i know of the ide elements, though ive always felt eclipse manages to slow down the development process so much by having so many shiney (slow moving) buttongs to work with Jul 26 17:20:36 <[1]gustnado> okay, is anyone doing cross debugging - running the debugger on, say, Linux and debugging a program on the actual maemo device (in my case, an N810) Jul 26 17:21:00 <[1]gustnado> lcuk - I used to feel the same way - I always used VI and make... Jul 26 17:21:03 the maemovmware appliance has eclipse as a default - might be an idea to download that and see how it fits together? Jul 26 17:21:27 <[1]gustnado> then I had a big java project that I inherited from bozos (ugh) and eclipse saved the day. Now that I am used to it, I prefer it to VI except for primary coding in non-Java languages Jul 26 17:21:43 <[1]gustnado> I thought I'd NEVER choose a GUI editor over VI and told lots of folks that Jul 26 17:21:46 <[1]gustnado> but I was wrong Jul 26 17:21:54 <[1]gustnado> anyway, eclipse is not all that great for C Jul 26 17:21:58 what who where ? Jul 26 17:22:05 >_< Jul 26 17:22:12 [1]gustnado: you woke me up :( Jul 26 17:22:42 <[1]gustnado> I just wanna know how to do interactive debug against a program in the device, with a visual editor where I can set breakpoints, see variables, etc Jul 26 17:22:47 <[1]gustnado> inherited... solly Jul 26 17:22:49 got my n810 in a few days ago, I'm in love ;) Jul 26 17:22:59 <[1]gustnado> yeah, I'm new to the n810 Jul 26 17:23:12 <[1]gustnado> gps sorta sucks tho, lock on very slow, and I bought it for the gps Jul 26 17:23:26 <[1]gustnado> anyway... HELP on debugging needed - anyone? Jul 26 17:23:49 gustnado, i wouldnt know which kernel supported breakpoints, i know the latest mainline one just integrated a debugger, but have no ideas Jul 26 17:23:49 ahh, I'm the paranoid type that turns the gps off ;p Jul 26 17:24:07 debugging for most things on device ive seen has been good old fashioned printfs Jul 26 17:24:12 <[1]gustnado> you must watch too much TV ;-) Jul 26 17:24:23 <[1]gustnado> lcuk, well that's the last resort Jul 26 17:24:41 heh, that and I can read maps ;) Jul 26 17:24:44 <[1]gustnado> but for many things, nothing beats IDE debugging Jul 26 17:24:45 gps startup can be sped up considerably by using the latest OS update (diablo) and a-gpa Jul 26 17:24:59 <[1]gustnado> I am using Diablo. What is a-gpa? Jul 26 17:25:02 what if your ide is on the device? Jul 26 17:25:06 a-gps Jul 26 17:25:16 <[1]gustnado> this device is not big enough for a good ide, I'm afraid Jul 26 17:25:17 sorry - some map thing where you click and show it where you are Jul 26 17:25:23 :) Jul 26 17:25:35 <[1]gustnado> ah - I have built and run maemo-mapper, but it doesn't speed it up Jul 26 17:25:42 <[1]gustnado> will look into a-gpa (or is it a-gps?) Jul 26 17:25:49 but its got enough grunt to do the ocmpilation and editing source files is both practical and possible Jul 26 17:26:09 was thinking of porting a sound tracker..... any suggestions? Jul 26 17:26:14 a-gps will boost the startup time of the gps Jul 26 17:26:21 <[1]gustnado> lcuk, true - but I don't wanna do that - why should I when I have a powerful PC thingie ssh'd to it? Jul 26 17:26:23 but other than that, your gps shouldnt be slow? Jul 26 17:26:42 <[1]gustnado> The only problem I have with the GPS is that it is slow Jul 26 17:26:47 gust - i do exactly that whilst sat at home, but when im out and about i like to code and compile on the go Jul 26 17:26:54 <[1]gustnado> other than that, it seems okay. Pretty sensitive, it works in my house under a clay tile roof Jul 26 17:27:02 <[1]gustnado> lcuk... understand Jul 26 17:27:02 what is slow - it tells you you were 5 miles down the road Jul 26 17:27:05 its slow to start Jul 26 17:27:08 <[1]gustnado> yes Jul 26 17:27:10 it slow to refresh Jul 26 17:27:12 <[1]gustnado> no Jul 26 17:27:25 <[1]gustnado> I find the refresh time better than the COBRA car GPS I tried out Jul 26 17:27:30 <[1]gustnado> and just as good as my Garmin Jul 26 17:27:38 <[1]gustnado> and my SirfIII hocky puck Jul 26 17:27:49 <[1]gustnado> if slow to refresh, it's the app, not the GPS Jul 26 17:28:31 <[1]gustnado> I have other devel questions too... like how to get started with a gui-based project. I started with maemo-mapper, but the makefile is one of these Jul 26 17:28:42 <[1]gustnado> autogen thingies that is inpenetrable Jul 26 17:28:48 <[1]gustnado> so I can't learn much from looking at it Jul 26 17:29:14 but the makefile simply glues your source to the libraries? Jul 26 17:29:26 you should get a list of libraries out of it easily Jul 26 17:29:29 <[1]gustnado> well, and to the includes, and it builds the binaries Jul 26 17:29:42 <[1]gustnado> you wold be surprised - take a look - you can pull the source from svn at the garage Jul 26 17:29:56 <[1]gustnado> it has all possible libraries in it, and then selects the needed ones in cryptic stuff Jul 26 17:30:02 <[1]gustnado> this is not your ordinary hand made makefile Jul 26 17:30:13 no, its made with autotools Jul 26 17:30:21 <[1]gustnado> exactly Jul 26 17:30:23 handmade == hard to work on multiple environments Jul 26 17:30:31 <[1]gustnado> and I have never used autotools, even though I have been using make for 25 years Jul 26 17:30:51 <[1]gustnado> agree on the handmade Jul 26 17:30:56 <[1]gustnado> maybe I should learn autotools Jul 26 17:30:57 its only a list of libraries though - it just has a long winded way to list them Jul 26 17:31:22 <[1]gustnado> but I don't want to invest too much time on this because I only really want it for one thing: I want to use the GPS to alert me when my speed puts me in danger of photo-radar tickets Jul 26 17:31:29 :D heh, i can talk - ive learnt enough to read them, but i cant use them: my n810 cant install autotools Jul 26 17:31:37 <[1]gustnado> I live in a fascist town Jul 26 17:31:41 use basic map? Jul 26 17:31:45 it warns you Jul 26 17:31:47 mine does anyway Jul 26 17:32:07 <[1]gustnado> Can u set the speed limits urself? I know exactly what speed I want to be warned at Jul 26 17:32:08 tracytracy always shouts out SPEEDCAM Jul 26 17:32:18 <[1]gustnado> what's tracytracy? Jul 26 17:32:31 its my in car gps device :) Jul 26 17:32:32 <[1]gustnado> in my area, the darned things are in trucks and move around Jul 26 17:32:56 <[1]gustnado> so I need something just to warn me for whole stretches of road Jul 26 17:32:56 she sits in the passenger seat playing mahjong whilst im driving Jul 26 17:33:05 <[1]gustnado> ah... well, that's one of the best kind Jul 26 17:33:17 <[1]gustnado> but I don't have one avail when commuting Jul 26 17:33:39 <[1]gustnado> so anyone, how does one use autotools (NOT on the device, but on the cross platform)? Jul 26 17:33:43 the 810 built in map does warn you if it knows theres a cam there Jul 26 17:33:54 and im sure theres discussions on itT aobut it specifically Jul 26 17:34:07 <[1]gustnado> well, then it doesn't know about the fixed ones near me, and certainly not about the mobile ones Jul 26 17:34:20 <[1]gustnado> the built-in map is not open software Jul 26 17:34:22 i believe you just enter the folder in a console and type configure Jul 26 17:34:29 <[1]gustnado> I have played a little with maemo-mapper, which is open Jul 26 17:34:42 then it will configure a makefile according to your system, you can then make as normal Jul 26 17:34:42 <[1]gustnado> tjat Jul 26 17:35:14 <[1]gustnado> what I mean is... how do I set up a new project so that ./configure will work? I know how to use configure on an existing project, although... Jul 26 17:35:16 yes - but if it does the job you need - why dig deeper (unless you have time/motivation) Jul 26 17:35:28 <[1]gustnado> it complains that I don't have certain files (without telling me where to get them) Jul 26 17:35:39 <[1]gustnado> I don't really wanna dig deeper Jul 26 17:35:47 <[1]gustnado> but I do wanna be able to build my own project Jul 26 17:35:57 <[1]gustnado> if its too much trouble, I'll just hack up maemo-mapper Jul 26 17:36:09 or just use a homemade makefile :) Jul 26 17:36:09 <[1]gustnado> but its beau coup code Jul 26 17:36:18 <[1]gustnado> yeah, I can do that too Jul 26 17:36:36 <[1]gustnado> and maybe it's not all that hard, although in the cross compile world, there are some mysteries about what the makefile should look like Jul 26 17:36:40 if the project you choose grows to the point of needing one, invest the time then Jul 26 17:36:47 <[1]gustnado> yep Jul 26 17:36:51 <[1]gustnado> good advice Jul 26 17:37:14 <[1]gustnado> do you know if anyone is doing interactive debug against the device from another machine? Jul 26 17:37:31 <[1]gustnado> I've seen some hints Jul 26 17:37:37 not that i know of, but if you find out - add a wiki page or post about it somewhere Jul 26 17:37:45 <[1]gustnado> yeah - good idea Jul 26 17:37:55 <[1]gustnado> I noticed the wiki was mashed yesterday Jul 26 17:37:59 <[1]gustnado> some idiot Jul 26 17:37:59 anyway, i was putting my head back into code :) Jul 26 17:38:15 <[1]gustnado> yeah, I've got some *paying* code to be doing :-) Jul 26 17:38:30 <[1]gustnado> for an 8-bit embedded widget Jul 26 17:38:49 you aiming for fast graphics on the device? Jul 26 17:38:55 or for another platform? Jul 26 17:39:04 <[1]gustnado> which device? Jul 26 17:39:17 n8x0 Jul 26 17:39:25 <[1]gustnado> my paying code is for an industrial controller - no graphics (the MPU has only 16KB flash and 1KB RAM) Jul 26 17:39:36 <[1]gustnado> oh, n8x0 - no need for real speed on graphics Jul 26 17:39:40 <[1]gustnado> just no turtle Jul 26 17:40:18 :) i like embedded devices. makes you *think* about the code you write and the decisions you make Jul 26 17:40:21 <[1]gustnado> but I have never done X or GTK programming before. Hoping to go from examples rather than learn the whole thing Jul 26 17:40:31 heh, neither had i Jul 26 17:40:37 <[1]gustnado> yes, embedded is a different world. And it's fun when the code makes relays click and LEDs blink and stuff Jul 26 17:41:12 You never have to do revdep-rebuild on debian. Jul 26 17:41:14 <[1]gustnado> and these days, the in circuit emulator is built into the MPU, so all you need to debug it is the right PC software (free from Atmel) and an inexpensive USB interface Jul 26 17:41:28 <[1]gustnado> don't even know what revdep-rebuild is Jul 26 17:41:37 [1]gustnado: Is this an Amtel AVR or an Amtel ARM? Jul 26 17:41:42 <[1]gustnado> My primary unix experience is on unix for big mainframes Jul 26 17:41:47 <[1]gustnado> Atmel AVR ATmega Jul 26 17:41:54 [1]gustnado: Finds packages that link to outdated libraries, and recompiles them. Jul 26 17:41:56 <[1]gustnado> I've also played with the ARM Jul 26 17:41:59 <[1]gustnado> ah Jul 26 17:42:00 [1]gustnado: Cool Jul 26 17:42:11 * lcuk waves his arm Jul 26 17:42:25 Hello lcuk. Jul 26 17:42:32 gustanado, i'm in the same boat, looking at webkit/gtk Jul 26 17:42:44 <[1]gustnado> Another product line I play with uses, believe it or not, the CPU core from the venerable Motorola 6800 - 8K of EPROM and 320 bytes of ram Jul 26 17:42:45 hi robink Jul 26 17:42:46 * robink has Epiphany SVN compiled against WebKit-GTK SVN. Jul 26 17:42:54 <[1]gustnado> teamcobra...good luck Jul 26 17:42:58 <[1]gustnado> ;-) Jul 26 17:43:00 so many people looking at new development :) good luck guys Jul 26 17:43:06 back later Jul 26 17:43:10 <[1]gustnado> ciao lcuk Jul 26 17:43:20 any ideas why canola2 youtube plugin won't play any sound, only video while watching youtube videos? Jul 26 17:43:24 [1]gustnado: Is it a Freescale HC12? Jul 26 17:43:26 <[1]gustnado> what is Epiphany? Jul 26 17:43:36 [1]gustnado: The stock GNOME web browser. Jul 26 17:43:39 <[1]gustnado> Freescale HC05 Jul 26 17:43:44 [1]gustnado: ! Jul 26 17:43:54 <[1]gustnado> I wrote an assembler for it back in '85 and have been using it ever since Jul 26 17:43:55 [1]gustnado: Isn't the HC05 based on the 6502? Jul 26 17:44:16 <[1]gustnado> no, it is the 6800 I think. It's been a long time since I played with the 6502 so I could be wrong. Jul 26 17:44:24 robink: want webdav space to share the debs? (pretty please?) Jul 26 17:44:26 <[1]gustnado> It has two 8 bit registers - X and A Jul 26 17:44:41 <[1]gustnado> robink - ah Jul 26 17:44:51 teamcobra: It'd be a bit of a challenge to turn them into debs...right now they'd be Gentoo binary packages. Jul 26 17:45:14 [1]gustnado: Oh yeah, you're right. Jul 26 17:45:35 <[1]gustnado> in other words, the CPU is over 30 years old. Needless to say, I have to code that in assembler. Jul 26 17:45:41 My dad used to use HC11s exclusively. Jul 26 17:45:43 X-Fade: ping ping Jul 26 17:46:03 <[1]gustnado> HC11 is a bit more advanced Jul 26 17:46:15 <[1]gustnado> I was able to implement true multitasking on it, whereas on the 05 I have to fake it Jul 26 17:46:34 ohhhh :p I've got midori on here, and even though it has a few issues, it's faaaaast Jul 26 17:46:37 liqbase Jul 26 17:46:40 <[1]gustnado> the HC11 gives you full control of the stack. The 05 doesn't let you do anything but reset it Jul 26 17:46:45 Now he uses embedded micros that use the 8008 instruction set and old Tattletales. Jul 26 17:46:46 <[1]gustnado> anyway... off subject Jul 26 17:46:54 Indeed Jul 26 17:47:02 <[1]gustnado> 8008, now that's ANCIENT. ARe you sure not 8080? Jul 26 17:47:07 Pretty sure. Jul 26 17:47:10 <[1]gustnado> 8008 was the very first 8 bit uC Jul 26 17:47:22 <[1]gustnado> and the second uP ever built AFAIK Jul 26 17:47:24 It's a nicer arch and instruction set than the basic 8008, but it's based on that design, not the 8080. Jul 26 17:47:33 <[1]gustnado> ah Jul 26 17:47:40 <[1]gustnado> I used to do 8080 and then a lot of Z80 Jul 26 17:47:47 <[1]gustnado> and them TMS9900 and TI-990 Jul 26 17:48:00 The advantage of these micros was that they were insanely cheap, insanely low-power and insanely small. Jul 26 17:48:02 <[1]gustnado> wrote a FORTH for the Z80 Jul 26 17:48:15 I dunno what they cost now, but he was working with them (made by Phillips I think) around 2003. Jul 26 17:48:18 <[1]gustnado> yes, even the Atmel ARM is under 4$! Jul 26 17:48:24 is os2006 more stable than os2007he? Jul 26 17:48:27 <[1]gustnado> and some of these little guys are under a $ Jul 26 17:48:35 Ha, the Phillips 8008 clone was under $0.35 Jul 26 17:48:41 <[1]gustnado> wow Jul 26 17:48:59 robink: epiphany-webkit maemo or? Jul 26 17:49:01 He was working on a thingy that was going into mass production. Jul 26 17:49:04 <[1]gustnado> the first computer I programmed had tubes in it Jul 26 17:49:11 <[1]gustnado> my stuff goes into mass prod Jul 26 17:49:16 Stskeeps: Nope, linked against the stock GNOME/GTK libraries and put on a Gentoo x86 desktop. Jul 26 17:49:29 Gentoo doesn't even *have* hildon yet :( Jul 26 17:49:50 <[1]gustnado> it was called MANIAC Jul 26 17:49:52 robink: ah. i ran it under debian on armel, was okay Jul 26 17:50:04 <[1]gustnado> what does "armel" mean? ARM ELF? Jul 26 17:50:05 Stskeeps: Huh, amazing that it worked well. Jul 26 17:50:12 [1]gustnado: Nope, ARM little endian. Jul 26 17:50:15 <[1]gustnado> ah Jul 26 17:50:17 maybe the e stands for ELF, dunno. Jul 26 17:50:37 <[1]gustnado> I never remember which direction little vs big endian is Jul 26 17:50:42 <[1]gustnado> fortunately it rarely matters Jul 26 17:50:46 <[1]gustnado> compiler hide all that Jul 26 17:51:33 robink: maybe the joke is "el" meaning "little endian" Jul 26 17:51:39 <[1]gustnado> any idea where to find info on people using eclipse or doing cross-platform debug? Nobody today here is doing it, apparently Jul 26 17:51:46 <[1]gustnado> har! Jul 26 17:51:49 Stskeeps: Oh yeah. Jul 26 17:51:56 <[1]gustnado> good one Jul 26 17:52:11 <[1]gustnado> so ARMBE would be big endian? Jul 26 17:52:31 This is another non-Maemo question, but does anyone know if Boost's serialization library lets you specify endianness for binary output? Jul 26 17:52:46 [1]gustnado: Presumably. Jul 26 17:53:05 Nobody's answering in ##C++ or #boost Jul 26 17:53:30 It might become Maemo-relevant if I write a frontend for this app that's designed for Hildon. Jul 26 17:54:37 Also HTML, AJAX and SVG are just as user-friendly and probably almost as fast. Jul 26 17:55:31 oops, s/8008/8051/g Jul 26 17:55:49 <[1]gustnado> ah... yes 8051 is very popular - many vendors Jul 26 17:56:18 Yeah, it was a Phillips 8051 (the price was correct tho-- it was under $0.35 in bulk). Jul 26 17:56:35 http://osdir.com/ml/debian.ports.arm/2006-04/msg00036.html <- armel/armeb explanation Jul 26 17:57:34 <[1]gustnado> the one odd thing about the AVR's is that they are Harvard architecture (like Microchip PICs) and thus C has a bit of trouble with constants Jul 26 17:58:10 He wrote in assembler. Jul 26 17:58:29 The whole team did; nobody wrote C (there was talk of LISP, but nobody could find a compiler). Jul 26 17:58:44 <[1]gustnado> probably too little RAM for C Jul 26 17:59:11 <[1]gustnado> I find C on the AVR takes twice as much memory as assembly on the HC05 (twice as much program memory, lots more RAM) Jul 26 18:01:17 I think it would've been possible to make a C version of the app, it's just nobody working on the embedded system knew C. Jul 26 18:01:48 Oh thank Frob, Gentoo now has sdcc. Jul 26 18:10:28 why doesnt linpus have a channel on freenode+ -.- Jul 26 18:25:13 is there a way to get the default browser in os2008 to use webkit as a rendering engine? I only ask because I've read about the EAL Jul 26 18:26:42 Hi Jul 26 18:26:52 Has anyone ever had a problem where they can't see their internal memory card? Jul 26 18:27:06 It's happend to me twice Jul 26 18:27:18 gelodso: is it when the back cover is off? Jul 26 18:27:58 nope Jul 26 18:28:12 I just turn it on and it doesn't recognize the internal memory card Jul 26 18:28:13 N810 Jul 26 18:28:27 and so it also doesn't recognize the removable storage either Jul 26 18:28:32 everything works et Jul 26 18:28:37 but i have no storage space Jul 26 18:29:16 it happened yesterday and when i went to work with it it picked up some file sharing network and then it found the internal memory again Jul 26 18:30:01 ah Jul 26 18:30:03 weird Jul 26 18:30:07 it recognizs it again Jul 26 18:31:18 anything odd in dmesg? Jul 26 18:31:47 dmesg? Jul 26 18:31:49 what's that? Jul 26 18:32:34 Sure, teamcobra, if you want to code up WebKit to work with EAL. Jul 26 18:32:50 gelodso: it's a command used in X Terminal to see messages from the kernel Jul 26 18:38:44 why does my diablo say prereleased? Jul 26 18:38:57 I wonder if i'm running an older diablo release Jul 26 18:39:45 gelodso: how many diablo release have there been? Jul 26 18:39:57 one? Jul 26 18:40:31 diablo-uarm-prereleased.gcc34qemu Jul 26 18:40:34 that's what it says Jul 26 18:51:16 can anyone recommend the best way of puting the sd card in the n810 Jul 26 18:52:49 sdhit always pops out Jul 26 19:21:59 Hi everyone Jul 26 19:29:26 Hello Binky. Jul 26 19:33:46 http://mojo.handhelds.org/node/55 <- kinda interesting, they're quite far with the main component Jul 26 19:57:09 Hey Jul 26 19:57:30 Since the SDHC can't be read via a computer how do you get stuff on your n810 Jul 26 19:57:32 via ssh? Jul 26 19:58:13 why cant it be read? Jul 26 19:58:46 i don't know Jul 26 19:58:55 maybe my reader is broke Jul 26 19:59:05 or old Jul 26 19:59:05 heh Jul 26 19:59:12 you could scp it over wifi Jul 26 19:59:28 yeah Jul 26 19:59:31 must be the reader Jul 26 19:59:33 scp? Jul 26 19:59:40 Is there not a GUI to do this? Jul 26 19:59:45 if you plug the usb in, then the cards should be visible Jul 26 19:59:51 oh Jul 26 19:59:51 duh Jul 26 19:59:53 thanks lcuk Jul 26 19:59:55 ponso: using linux or windows? Jul 26 19:59:57 on the home computer: use the 8x0 as a card reader :) Jul 26 20:00:02 you can do that? Jul 26 20:00:06 * doc|home didn't know that Jul 26 20:00:10 with FAT disks yes Jul 26 20:00:22 obviously in linux it works with whatever Jul 26 20:00:41 or so i have been told Jul 26 20:05:41 Death. Desolation. Plastic forks. Jul 26 20:07:09 2 days until tablets dev is back. Jul 26 20:07:29 Amateur hour at Nokia. :/ Jul 26 20:07:54 ? Jul 26 20:08:19 bug #3500 Jul 26 20:08:29 They really need to get it together Jul 26 20:08:55 One hand is doing one thing and the other is doing something completely different. Jul 26 20:10:18 they have got 3 (three!) phone divisions and you want them to get dev support axt Jul 26 20:10:26 act together Jul 26 20:10:51 To manage a stupid server changeover Jul 26 20:11:30 Not the whole company for everything, but for stupid shit like making the dns point at the right place and not leaving people stranded for 3 days. Jul 26 20:12:36 repos borked as well? splendid. Jul 26 20:13:30 weweird: mit produces 80% of power it consumes Jul 26 20:31:41 how far have things gotten with mouse support? Jul 26 20:32:19 need to improve the usability of my tablet to prevent me from buyin an aspire one, the battery life of that thing is utterly useless Jul 26 20:49:39 hi anyone know how would I use find to get my email from ossomail Jul 26 20:49:45 I am on chinook Jul 26 21:01:25 anyone know where does ossomail stores email Jul 26 21:31:18 Hi ! Jul 26 21:42:58 whats a good free gps mapping software package for the n800 diablo? i just got a cheap bluetooth gps device but can't find any sw for it for diablo Jul 26 21:43:09 Maemo Mapper. Jul 26 21:43:31 maemo mapper is free? Jul 26 21:43:56 Er, obviously, or I wouldn't suggest it. . . . Jul 26 21:44:13 ok, sorry Jul 26 21:44:20 thanks! Jul 26 21:44:42 FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Jul 26 21:44:51 bird Jul 26 21:45:06 no stairway plz Jul 26 21:45:54 where is the statusbar-applet-configuration stored on the filesystem? Somehow my battery icon got lost... Jul 26 21:45:57 * GAN800 pulls out a lighter. Jul 26 21:46:32 Maemo mapper seems to be missing from Diablo. Jul 26 21:46:37 I haven't tried AGPS Jul 26 21:46:58 I wonder what my phone/n810 battery life will be if I keep my edge connection and bluetooth teather going all day Jul 26 21:47:05 nomis: reboot. Jul 26 21:47:13 RST38bis: does not help. Jul 26 21:47:13 robink: chinook extras. Jul 26 21:47:19 RST38bis: Ah Jul 26 21:48:53 does agps work with a n800 and a bluetooth gps? Jul 26 21:49:07 and I cannot re-enable the battery applet, since it is "special" and cannot be configured in the prefs :-/ Jul 26 21:49:14 Proteous: unlikely. Jul 26 21:49:18 nomis: control panel => panels => status bar Jul 26 21:49:35 ok Jul 26 21:49:54 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ is down Jul 26 21:50:09 a moment Jul 26 21:50:09 proteous: no and does not have to Jul 26 21:50:18 anyone have a copy of diablo for the N810 they can spare? Jul 26 21:51:04 fuelfive: Huh? Jul 26 21:51:12 fuelfive: Yeah, but you can get it from Nokia. Jul 26 21:51:19 Proteous, no and no. Jul 26 21:51:25 I'm trying, but their site is down Jul 26 21:51:45 i might Jul 26 21:52:06 3-6 hours for EDGE and no way to get agps data there over bt. Jul 26 21:52:20 Would I be naughty if I pushed it to my little web server? Jul 26 21:53:09 that would be super helpful Jul 26 21:53:31 my company has a big deployment on monday, and I need a diablo image so that I can flash the 10 N810s we just bought Jul 26 21:54:17 here's proof that i really need your help: Jul 26 21:54:29 http://tinyurl.com/6efubu Jul 26 21:55:26 http://creosotehill.org/~robink/RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Jul 26 21:55:54 holy cow Jul 26 21:55:59 That's a lot of N810s Jul 26 21:56:11 thanks robink Jul 26 21:56:14 np Jul 26 21:56:15 you are my hero for today Jul 26 21:56:22 heh thanks Jul 26 21:56:27 yeah it was like $3100 Jul 26 21:56:33 Jebus Jul 26 21:57:14 Weird, I get a gzip error when refreshing the maemo Extras. Jul 26 21:57:37 nomis: does not seem to be in gconf Jul 26 21:57:48 fuelfive: I gotta ask, what are you going to use them all for? Jul 26 21:58:09 * qwerty12_N800 doesn't understand nokia. you have the ssu updates on the nokia server but the images on the maemo server :/ Jul 26 21:58:16 btw, i have found a bug in mahjong!!! Jul 26 21:58:38 http://frogmetrics.com/ Jul 26 21:58:58 my company uses them to give surveys Jul 26 21:59:09 there is a typo in mahjong hiscores gconf key! Jul 26 21:59:49 Mercury: ^^ see above Jul 26 22:00:37 RST38bis: I have seen this in some file, I've forgotten where though :-/ Jul 26 22:00:52 whats with telephony gabble Jul 26 22:01:08 it uses all my cycles Jul 26 22:01:16 nomis: grep etc and ~ for it Jul 26 22:02:15 do the 810s have the same responsiveness as the 800s, or ae they faster? Jul 26 22:02:38 esworp: They're pretty much the same with OS2008, I believe. Jul 26 22:03:09 hrm. i'm torn as to if I want to upgrade? Jul 26 22:03:12 lcuk, you'll be happy to know i'm near oldham :p Jul 26 22:03:19 I,love my 810 Jul 26 22:05:03 esworp the upgrade is good Jul 26 22:05:10 * robink wants Gentoo to have Hildon. Jul 26 22:05:37 Having gotten my n810 this past week, and being the owner of an n800, the n810 is simply a better device. Jul 26 22:05:55 What's an easy way of setting cpufreq to performance from xterm? Jul 26 22:05:57 the screen is exelent Jul 26 22:06:55 by the time you'd be done compiling gentoo on the device there would already be N910 available Jul 26 22:07:00 For the same screen size, you have a device which is smaller in every dimension, including thickness, you have a better display, a keyboard, the lock key thinggy is _really_ an improvement, and they seem to have fixed the backlight unevenness around the edges problem. Jul 26 22:07:12 fuelfive: Is your survey client written in (C(++)?|Python|Obj-C) or HTML/AJAX? Jul 26 22:07:12 lol qwerty12_N800 Jul 26 22:07:28 my main compliant is the touchscreen having degraded. Jul 26 22:07:28 GeneralAntilles, echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor Jul 26 22:07:38 echo performance >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor Jul 26 22:07:38 lcuk, in halifax atm :p Jul 26 22:07:38 Kegetys: I wouldn't compile the distro for the device on the device, I'd use my host machine. Jul 26 22:07:47 esworp: Degraded? Jul 26 22:07:54 oh gawd Jul 26 22:08:38 what? bruv, i was born here :p Jul 26 22:09:13 yeah. there are parts where the sensitivity is lessening. a drag across the screen results in all kinds of taps. Jul 26 22:09:16 Thanks Jul 26 22:09:32 esworp: I've had that, but I think it's because I don't press hard enough. Jul 26 22:09:34 but you defected Jul 26 22:09:41 esworp: That's, annoying. How long have you owned the unit? Jul 26 22:10:00 Mercury, you also have significantly less storage, a crappy dpad that's in a terrible position, a non-swivelling camera, and a less durable design. Jul 26 22:10:08 They both have their advantages. Jul 26 22:10:31 mplayer (or even xmms with flac.so installed) skips some flacs after a couple secs playtime. ideas? Jul 26 22:11:08 storage andd camera are insigniificant Jul 26 22:11:22 dpad absolutely sucks though Jul 26 22:11:30 RST38bis: worse than the N800? Jul 26 22:11:37 * robink likes the N810 dpad Jul 26 22:11:40 oh yes Jul 26 22:11:45 RST38bis: ~/.osso/hildon-desktop/statusbar.clock Jul 26 22:11:59 try playing a game with it Jul 26 22:12:00 eh. .conf :) Jul 26 22:12:24 nomis: but why clock and not battery? Jul 26 22:12:43 GeneralAntilles: The dpad being on the keyboard _is_ annoying, I'll give you that. But the difference between a fixed 2G internal and an external mini-SDHC, and an internal SDHC and an external SDHC just isn't _that_ huge. Jul 26 22:12:46 RST38bis: I mistyped. The filename is "statusbar.conf" Jul 26 22:13:22 oh Jul 26 22:13:32 robink: it's actually a bunch of languages, no html though Jul 26 22:13:37 fuelfive: Ah. Jul 26 22:13:53 GeneralAntilles: If you're actually using even 4G of storage on your unit, I'd love to know with what. :) Jul 26 22:14:00 the animations and other cool stuff we do is way too processor intensive to do in html Jul 26 22:14:38 fuelfive: You could do it with SVG if you had a decent engine (no browser engine that I know of does animated SVG tho). Jul 26 22:14:38 "wasd" is actually quite ok for gaming on the n810 (much better than the dpad) Jul 26 22:14:45 GeneralAntilles: Now, IMHO, they should have probably just gone for two micro-SDHC slots, but. Jul 26 22:14:53 * Mercury AFKs. Jul 26 22:15:28 can you do software raid-0 with the two slots on the N800 for additional speed? :P Jul 26 22:15:35 robink: originally we tried it in flash, but it was waaayyy too slow Jul 26 22:15:52 plus we can do cool stuff with the gps and camera by having it a binary program Jul 26 22:16:41 fuelfive: Indeed. Jul 26 22:16:56 hehe camera is good. take pictures of the confused faces on some of the questions :) Jul 26 22:17:01 haha Jul 26 22:17:04 fuelfive: So it is a native binary, and not an interpreted script or bytecode? Jul 26 22:17:06 more for staff sign up Jul 26 22:17:38 so if you're a waiter at a restaurant, you sign up using the device, it takes your picture, your picture shows up on your "weekly report card" Jul 26 22:18:03 * lcuk is doin somefink like that Jul 26 22:18:04 someone have see that : Android Scan : http://scan.jsharkey.org/ Jul 26 22:18:11 a great idea for the nit Jul 26 22:18:12 robink: it's not just one program. there's some python, some C, some shell scripts, some OS-level customization Jul 26 22:18:21 I have an 8gig microSD card in my n810 filled with music Jul 26 22:18:26 fuelfive, is the ui as slick on device as your site? Jul 26 22:18:37 khertan_: we are working on it ;) Jul 26 22:18:42 already ? Jul 26 22:18:44 khertan_: check out maemo barcode Jul 26 22:18:45 great :) Jul 26 22:18:47 lcuk: it's way way slicker Jul 26 22:19:02 the site was just sort of hacked together with jquery Jul 26 22:19:02 oh ... is it released ? Jul 26 22:19:04 barcode recognition alread works, so does upc database lookup Jul 26 22:19:15 khertan_: just the source no packages yet Jul 26 22:19:15 :) graphics tearing? Jul 26 22:19:25 oi fellas Jul 26 22:19:29 jott: :) Jul 26 22:19:39 on the device we have our own animation library that's a lot like apple's CoreImage Jul 26 22:19:42 Is there really no way of getting rid of the application panel? Eespecially since Personal Menu works so much more better. Jul 26 22:19:53 so we can do all kinds of gradients and drop shadows and independently fading and sliding elements Jul 26 22:20:16 nice, are you in c++ and what is the backend bound to? Jul 26 22:20:32 khertan_: http://outpo.st/maemo-barcode <- binary Jul 26 22:20:41 svn checkout --username développeur https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemo-barcode Jul 26 22:20:49 lcuk: some of it is in c, some python, some shell scripts, some OS-level hacking Jul 26 22:20:58 ouch wrong windows Jul 26 22:20:59 we use each for its strong suit Jul 26 22:21:20 the web backend is all in ruby on rails Jul 26 22:21:30 khertan_: http://www.ageofikon.info/upc3.db.bz2 <- database Jul 26 22:21:35 lots of neat data visualizations and reports and stuff Jul 26 22:21:58 khertan_: you are welcome to help and contribute Jul 26 22:22:03 yer ill bet Jul 26 22:22:08 it s in c ? Jul 26 22:22:11 yes Jul 26 22:22:28 couldn't contribute a lot as i'm python dev :) Jul 26 22:22:40 (and mainly c compiling onboard is a pain) Jul 26 22:22:54 khertan_: scratchbox Jul 26 22:22:57 well if you want you can make python bindings for the image recognition code :) Jul 26 22:23:09 jott: any chance to see it in extras? Jul 26 22:23:11 i don't really care if the ui is in python or c :) Jul 26 22:23:17 it could be interesting :) Jul 26 22:23:29 RST38bis: hm i think it is a bit too experimental atm Jul 26 22:23:50 but maybe it could help to attract more developers Jul 26 22:23:58 héhé :) Jul 26 22:24:09 i ll take a look to this tomorrow ... Jul 26 22:24:09 jott: I showed a barcode to it, the pic froze and my n810 rebooted :) Jul 26 22:24:26 jott, do you have to build an actual lib to bind with it? or can you bind to just a .o Jul 26 22:24:29 now i need to sleep ... Jul 26 22:24:31 Kegetys: hmmm strange Jul 26 22:24:37 Kegetys: with the binary i just posted? Jul 26 22:24:42 infinite loop Jul 26 22:24:43 * qwerty12_N800 df -h's to see if i have 'nuff space Jul 26 22:24:46 lcuk: robink what are you guys working on atm? Jul 26 22:24:46 jott: yes Jul 26 22:24:47 bye ... gute nachte ! Jul 26 22:24:47 jott: why not make it a bit less experimental though? Jul 26 22:25:02 fuelfive - did you get my pm? Jul 26 22:25:04 RST38bis: if you give me some extra hours :) Jul 26 22:25:11 i hope you didnt actually Jul 26 22:25:15 lib - sounds fine Jul 26 22:25:19 oh wait, I did Jul 26 22:25:23 it was below the fold Jul 26 22:25:56 Kegetys: maybe it has a problem when the database is missing :/ Jul 26 22:26:00 rm_you: poke :P Jul 26 22:27:20 jott :P get some error reporting Jul 26 22:28:11 jott: tbh it doesn't seem that usable anyway with the N810 since the camera faces front Jul 26 22:28:32 Kegetys: works quite fine if you know how to hold it :) Jul 26 22:28:39 but i agree the n800 is better suited Jul 26 22:28:47 when the 810 is on the shopping clip on the shopping cart you get to see the screen and flash your item at it Jul 26 22:29:17 * qwerty12_N800 will not be flashing my item at my n800 Jul 26 22:29:23 sure, its not a handheld trigger, but it will work like a cashiers scanner Jul 26 22:29:47 would maybe be a bit easier to position if the image would be mirrored Jul 26 22:29:49 lol qwerty12, it wouldnt be able to resolve the barcode on yours without a magnifying glass Jul 26 22:29:50 Kegetys: try my binary Jul 26 22:29:58 i've had the unit for several months. nokia indicats they'd refurb it. but to be without my baby that long., Jul 26 22:29:59 Kegetys: http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/maemo-barcode Jul 26 22:30:22 rm_you: hm i suppose its because he is missing the db?! Jul 26 22:30:28 Kegetys: did you grab the correct database file? Jul 26 22:30:29 ah yes Jul 26 22:30:39 no, just the binary Jul 26 22:30:49 Kegetys: download http://www.ageofikon.info/upc3.db.bz2 Jul 26 22:31:00 beware - it is quite big :) Jul 26 22:31:05 and either put it in the same directory as the binary or else symlink it in (after you bunzip2 it) Jul 26 22:31:07 lcuk, people who need glasses to see big things won't be needing it for mine. now go an relieve yourself with tweezers :p Jul 26 22:32:02 sounds uncomfortable Jul 26 22:32:14 lol Jul 26 22:32:19 are there any roll-up or fabric bluetooth keyboards out there? Jul 26 22:32:19 do you guys ever boot your n810 off and the screen stays on? Jul 26 22:32:24 only taking the battery seems to fixes it Jul 26 22:32:35 heh Jul 26 22:32:47 jott: I am doing amazon.com scraping next, then going back to working on datamatrix and QR Jul 26 22:32:53 "boot off" = dropkick? Jul 26 22:33:02 derf: you still working on converting QR code or were you waiting for me to do that? Jul 26 22:33:22 rm_you: http://isbndb.com/ have you seen this? Jul 26 22:33:45 Wow, what a great audience. Jul 26 22:33:49 * XTL goes to sleep Jul 26 22:33:55 jott: no, mmmm Jul 26 22:33:58 http://isbndb.com/docs/api/ Jul 26 22:34:12 jott: I was thinking about using amazon for more than just books tho... also DVDs and music Jul 26 22:34:18 yeah indeed Jul 26 22:34:19 and WHATEVER they carry Jul 26 22:34:38 maybe we really should use python for the gui/lookup stuff :) Jul 26 22:34:40 has anyone ever gotten that, where the screen stays on after a shutdown ? Jul 26 22:34:57 i have Jul 26 22:35:15 we could also hire khertan_ as code monkey then :P Jul 26 22:35:34 qwerty, does that happen often for you? Jul 26 22:35:48 Mercury, maps (5GB), movies (1-10GB), pictures (.25-1GB), music (.5-4GB), ebooks (1GB). Jul 26 22:35:56 There's plenty of things to fill SD cards with. Jul 26 22:35:58 jott: I would much rather deal with Python for UI / everything Jul 26 22:35:58 qwerty, or do you know of remedy for it? Jul 26 22:36:14 GeneralAntilles: Hrm, the maps, movies, and music I'll admit tend to get awkward. Jul 26 22:36:32 lcuk: did you ever figure out embedding C into python? Jul 26 22:36:47 rm_you: you can just create binding Jul 26 22:36:48 s Jul 26 22:36:48 F-i-G, it used to but now not so much. afaik, it's a process not shutting down properly Jul 26 22:36:53 hrm Jul 26 22:37:04 never tried, dunno how it works Jul 26 22:37:04 qwerty, i see. Jul 26 22:37:06 "Admit", eh. . . . Jul 26 22:37:08 so we could do a binding for the barcode recognition Jul 26 22:37:18 GeneralAntilles: But there are 8GB micro SDHC cards. Jul 26 22:37:19 yei looked and thought it had to use a library and i couldnt link direct to a .o because it has no public interfaces Jul 26 22:37:20 qwerty, i usually select the shut down option via the power button. Jul 26 22:37:25 or just hold the power button down Jul 26 22:37:30 Mercury, which don't cover it. Jul 26 22:37:30 GeneralAntilles: Admittedly, I'm not aware of any 16GB micros, but. Jul 26 22:37:39 I've got two 16s at the moment Jul 26 22:37:46 General, nice Jul 26 22:37:51 Trust me, I need the storage. Jul 26 22:38:00 YOUR use case may not, but many people's do. Jul 26 22:38:37 GeneralAntilles: N800 or N810? Jul 26 22:39:55 * jott has yet to fill his 4gb card .. Jul 26 22:40:08 GeneralAntilles: I have a problem with headphones, thus portable music (and in many ways video) doesn't interest me that much. And I'm very rarely somewhere that I could watch a video, but which I can't just use a laptop. The maps I can definitely see there though. Jul 26 22:40:22 GeneralAntilles: The ebooks, what format ebooks do you have? PDF? Lots of image content? Jul 26 22:40:25 * qwerty12_N800 needs to get another 8gb Jul 26 22:40:51 * F-i-G needs a girlfriend and/or a booty call Jul 26 22:41:11 image storage for digicam could use some really big cards too Jul 26 22:41:19 F-i-G, lcuk's volunteering :p Jul 26 22:41:38 Kegetys: the high end pro cams that realy need those big sizes tend to use compact flash though, not sd Jul 26 22:41:54 BULLE: you can read that with a usb card reader Jul 26 22:42:36 Kegetys: Point. But it's either not SD at all, or an 8GB microSD with an adapter is simply less optimal then a 16GB SD or 32GB SD, not unusable. Jul 26 22:42:58 F-i-G, ive had programs lasting into reboot before now.. Jul 26 22:43:06 draing over the charging icon Jul 26 22:43:12 drawing even Jul 26 22:43:40 for shooting raw you want a really fast card in the camera and big + fast = very expensive, you could buy a smaller but fast CF on the camera and when its full dump the images to the big card on N8x0 Jul 26 22:43:47 yeah...the screen lingers on for like 15sec after shutdown Jul 26 22:44:00 also my internal memory and removable are sometimes not recognized Jul 26 22:44:07 F-i-G, you sound like you have a bad app running Jul 26 22:44:23 hmm Jul 26 22:44:26 i don't know what it would be Jul 26 22:44:51 ok, i got my internal back Jul 26 22:44:55 time to put my removable back in Jul 26 22:44:58 start simply. go into your app list and get rid of everything you have tested and dont need anymore Jul 26 22:45:06 F-i-G, happens to me quite a bit. i would say though that the 2 problems are seperate Jul 26 22:45:09 lcuk, i've done that Jul 26 22:45:16 ooer Jul 26 22:45:36 It's happened a couple of times since yesterday Jul 26 22:45:37 is there anything unusual in top Jul 26 22:46:21 On top of what? Jul 26 22:46:45 "top" as in program :p Jul 26 22:47:05 * lcuk giggles Jul 26 22:47:49 i have to say, if you ever need to get drunk, go to oldham Jul 26 22:48:07 too far! Jul 26 22:48:43 oh Jul 26 22:48:43 no Jul 26 22:48:51 I don't know how to have apps automatically boot Jul 26 22:48:56 everything seems to be working now Jul 26 22:49:05 I got my gizmo account setup Jul 26 22:49:06 pretty sweet Jul 26 22:49:08 better than skype Jul 26 22:49:12 caller id etc Jul 26 22:56:48 anybody else got mail from Quim abbout the berlin fforum? Jul 26 23:23:45 Kegetys, I dump to the N800 with USB host. Jul 26 23:23:53 Mercury, no PDFs, few images. Jul 26 23:23:58 Just lots and lots of ebooks Jul 26 23:25:46 GeneralAntilles: if ebooks more or less is the only thing, why not use a proper ebook reader instead of an n800 ? Jul 26 23:25:58 BULLE, read the scrollback Jul 26 23:26:09 Movies, maps, music, game data, etc. Jul 26 23:26:29 Besides, ebook readers are some majorly lame shit. Jul 26 23:26:39 I've never seen an ebook reader :-) Jul 26 23:26:46 They're huge, and they can't do anything. Jul 26 23:26:54 can you just put .pdf or .ps on an sd card and they'll display it? Jul 26 23:27:09 ShadowJK: thats the general idea yes Jul 26 23:27:16 Let me know when one of those "proper" readers can do anywhere near what my N800 can. Jul 26 23:27:22 and the ones i have seen are far from huge, more like a small softback book Jul 26 23:27:24 My tablet is a laptop replacement Jul 26 23:27:33 So I do everything with it that you might do with a laptop Jul 26 23:27:38 Which means I need lots of storage. Jul 26 23:27:53 BULLE, huge compared to the N800. Jul 26 23:27:54 ShadowJK: the main gain with them is that their screens are realy way better then an lcd, for freading Jul 26 23:27:55 N810 is like a small book... Jul 26 23:27:58 and definitely not pocketable. Jul 26 23:28:06 GeneralAntilles: depends on the model you buy Jul 26 23:28:09 and they're much bigger than a mass market paperback. Jul 26 23:28:09 GeneralAntilles: What format ebooks do you go for? Jul 26 23:28:16 GeneralAntilles: not all models Jul 26 23:28:23 HTML/RTF/TXT Jul 26 23:28:30 BULLE, every model I've seen. Jul 26 23:28:40 GeneralAntilles: Compressed? Jul 26 23:28:41 ShadowJK: also, they dont use any current basicly, other then when redrawing the screen Jul 26 23:28:56 ShadowJK: so battery life is measured in number of page redraws, and not in time Jul 26 23:28:58 Mercury, no, I don't feel like playing that game. Jul 26 23:29:08 FBReader may have added integrated zip support Jul 26 23:29:10 at some point Jul 26 23:29:12 I don't recall Jul 26 23:29:16 But they didn't have it way back when Jul 26 23:29:28 and I'm not really concerned about the ~500MB I might save. Jul 26 23:30:08 I used to use my laptop to read books. Good old IBM PS/Note. i386 @ 25Mhz (but I usually had it at 12 for reading stuff). Backlight was broken but the black/white LCD was readable under a light Jul 26 23:30:56 ShadowJK: the ebook thingies doesnt even use an lcd screen, so its like reading from paper, eg works great in the sun and so on Jul 26 23:31:06 GeneralAntilles: Ah, FBReader has intergrated zip support, oeb/epub support, and a few others. Jul 26 23:31:24 Too much additional work for compression. Jul 26 23:31:28 GeneralAntilles: The uncompressed bit explains how you use so much more space for ebooks then I do. :) Jul 26 23:31:58 Woohoo, local variable code complete; type information; pretty icons and filter-as-you-type in Valable: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=203154#post207421 Jul 26 23:32:02 BULLE: And absolutely horrible for my uses, I demand a backlight, but you may differ. :) Jul 26 23:32:12 There's 3 mail clients for maemo right? Jul 26 23:32:35 Mercury: i find them absolutely lovely, for reading books, not that good, for anything else =D Jul 26 23:32:54 I like reading in bed in the dark Jul 26 23:32:58 Can't do that with an ebook reader. Jul 26 23:33:15 I like reading and being able to bounce around between web and IRC/IM, too. Jul 26 23:33:20 Also can't do that with an ebook reader. Jul 26 23:34:01 well, web access are in some, but havent seen anyone with im irc functionality Jul 26 23:34:44 hm, didn't olpc have backlight-less mode? Jul 26 23:34:54 any idea what's going on with maemo extras? Jul 26 23:34:57 http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz Jul 26 23:35:02 big 'ol error messages Jul 26 23:35:03 programmability automatically means someone will write irc client, it seems it's among the first things people write :) Jul 26 23:36:35 maemo extras repo down? Jul 26 23:36:37 Either way, ebook readers aren't tiny Linux machines. Jul 26 23:36:39 No Jul 26 23:36:46 Something weird with the Packages list. Jul 26 23:41:00 General, are you getting that too? Jul 26 23:45:10 Everybody's getting it. Jul 26 23:45:25 +1 to that Jul 26 23:45:30 I'm trying to boot debian on a N770 with a N8x0. I managed to get it running manually, but Xomap won't start. Is there some info on Xomap on the N770? Jul 26 23:46:52 s/N770/770/g Jul 26 23:47:46 ty Jul 26 23:54:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWiRiFlW24w Jul 26 23:55:17 cool, didn't know that I was able to move the 'menu/tasks' bar Jul 26 23:57:02 heh, i only realised that the other day too Jul 27 00:06:05 move what? Jul 27 00:12:43 anyone having issues with URL = http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php Jul 27 00:13:53 it get ERROR The requested URL could not be retrieved - The following error was encountered: * Access Denied. Access control configuration prevents your request from being allowed at this time. Please contact your service provider if you feel this is incorrect. Jul 27 00:13:57 jshute_, topic. . . . Jul 27 00:14:41 got it Jul 27 00:14:49 just say the comment Jul 27 00:14:56 topic Jul 27 00:46:53 gnite chan Jul 27 00:55:22 I love people who claim Nokia announced certain features, but can't manage to back up those (false) claims. Jul 27 00:59:49 Nokia announced nothing afaik Jul 27 01:03:43 AStorm, yes, dumbass "journalists" read "Bluetooth headset support" as "Bluetooth headphone support". Jul 27 01:04:06 hmm? Jul 27 01:04:18 what is the difference, really? Jul 27 01:04:23 different BT protocol? Jul 27 01:04:41 headset usually consists of headphone and microphone Jul 27 01:05:15 headset would be HSP Jul 27 01:05:19 Headphone would be A2DP Jul 27 01:05:27 not exactly, but sure Jul 27 01:05:30 different quality Jul 27 01:05:45 still wondering why headphones don't support HSP ;P Jul 27 01:05:59 I wouldn't know that "headphone" is a2dp and "headset" is hsp, but I know what a2dp and hsp are... Jul 27 01:06:18 why can't they use terms that are defined, instead of vague words :-( Jul 27 01:07:05 Does anyone know if there's a site anywhere that could tell me what bluetooth chip is used in various devices, like in various nokia phones? Jul 27 01:07:18 AStorm, they do. Jul 27 01:07:29 Just at 8KHz Jul 27 01:07:37 I want a CSR in my next phone, because everything else is, in my experience, garbage. Jul 27 01:07:43 ShadowJK, Bluetooth headset is well defined. Jul 27 01:08:00 GeneralAntilles: oh shi- :> Jul 27 01:08:03 They're targeting it at people that aren't familiar with acronym soup. Jul 27 01:08:10 8kHz? that's not good enough for anything Jul 27 01:08:15 including headsets ;P Jul 27 01:08:20 what were they thinking?! Jul 27 01:08:23 Like the media. Jul 27 01:08:31 and consumers. Jul 27 01:09:02 we could use A2DP support, yes Jul 27 01:09:19 what are the obstacles? Jul 27 01:09:25 HSP is 8KHz Jul 27 01:09:28 for voice Jul 27 01:09:41 it's not enough for voice Jul 27 01:09:46 for shit cellphones that don't have the horsepower to encode 44.1 for voice conversations Jul 27 01:09:47 real voice needs 16 kHz Jul 27 01:09:48 It's plenty Jul 27 01:09:54 Have you used a Bluetooth headset? Jul 27 01:09:59 yes, suck Jul 27 01:10:01 :> Jul 27 01:10:05 They're fine Jul 27 01:10:08 consider narrowband amr... Jul 27 01:10:10 You can understand what people are saying. Jul 27 01:10:14 or whatever the voice runs over on gsm Jul 27 01:10:15 my old analogue phone was better Jul 27 01:10:20 understand is not good enough Jul 27 01:10:27 I don't want to strain at it ;P Jul 27 01:10:28 Matter of opinion. Jul 27 01:10:38 try talking with a child Jul 27 01:10:38 Millions of people use Bluetooth headsets just fine. Jul 27 01:10:43 :) Jul 27 01:11:15 if it's 8kHz analog, then it's ok Jul 27 01:11:27 (that is, 16 kHz digital) Jul 27 01:11:32 AKA wideband voice Jul 27 01:12:00 maybe some sound reconstruction technique could help, but it's fake anyway ;P Jul 27 01:12:22 what we need is less crummy cell phones Jul 27 01:12:42 nad still, what is the obstacle vs A2DP in n8x0? Jul 27 01:13:12 Good DSP support. Jul 27 01:13:25 hm, well, Nokia could do that quickly if they wanted Jul 27 01:13:30 they have coders and docs Jul 27 01:13:37 and gstreamer support Jul 27 01:13:40 and experience too Jul 27 01:13:49 gstreamer? can't they just do ALSA? Jul 27 01:13:51 Working around Nokia's closed stuff is a big blocker Jul 27 01:13:58 GeneralAntilles: indeed it is Jul 27 01:14:02 I mean, lardman has pretty much gotten the DSP stuff going. Jul 27 01:14:06 esp. buggy dsp watchdog Jul 27 01:14:11 But you can't use it with Media player. Jul 27 01:14:15 I gave up Jul 27 01:14:24 GeneralAntilles: you can't use ALSA output with Media Player? Jul 27 01:14:35 huhwha? Jul 27 01:14:39 Something along those lines. Jul 27 01:14:46 Not sure of the exact details Jul 27 01:14:53 uhm, you could route esd to some other output Jul 27 01:14:53 I could really give two shits about A2DP. ;) Jul 27 01:15:10 or even have sound played directly Jul 27 01:15:16 gst has ALSA support Jul 27 01:15:26 although we'd need accelerated dmix too Jul 27 01:15:31 or cpu would burn Jul 27 01:15:50 (assuming esd is, if it's not, we're safe?) Jul 27 01:18:20 temporary fix for repository.maemo.org -> add "62.61.85.32 repository.maemo.org" to /etc/hosts Jul 27 01:23:13 That'd be stage.maemo.org? Jul 27 01:24:33 yes Jul 27 01:26:06 tablets-dev was moved somewhere else as it seems. Jul 27 01:26:33 I don't get it, stage.maemo.org already resolves to that IP? Jul 27 01:27:48 Why didn't they propagate the DNS BEFORE they moved. Jul 27 01:28:02 and keep the old server up while the propagation occurred. Jul 27 01:28:05 amateur hour Jul 27 01:29:24 They really need to figure out what it's going to take to not have downtime every 2 weeks. . . . Jul 27 01:30:06 hire more (capable) people? Jul 27 01:30:55 Seems like a lot of it is communication. . . . Jul 27 01:31:02 if a file doesn't have an extension, how can I pass this using wget? Jul 27 01:32:14 I have alot of files that have no extensions on an http server ex log1 log2 log3 ..... logN How can I pass these using wget? Jul 27 01:32:27 GeneralAntilles: yeah well, big company "connecting people", you know ;) Jul 27 01:32:51 skibur: wget doesn't add any extension AFAICR Jul 27 01:33:17 skibur: for i in $(seq 1 10); do wget http://foo.bar/log$i; done ? Jul 27 01:34:00 hum.... Jul 27 01:35:25 not sure what you are after .... Jul 27 01:37:20 great Jul 27 01:37:22 that worked Jul 27 01:37:24 thanks Jul 27 01:54:46 jott, would you mind giving me the link again? Jul 27 01:55:32 befr0d|N810: http://outpo.st/advanced-backlight_0.14-4_armel.deb Jul 27 01:55:33 wtf Jul 27 01:56:18 haha Jul 27 01:59:13 jott, unable to install, unmet depencencies Jul 27 01:59:24 I'm still using chinook Jul 27 01:59:28 * buckminst glances at the topic and finds the answer to his question. Jul 27 02:00:07 Just to be friendly though, hello everyone. New N810 user, love the maemo system and appreciate all of the maemo developers' hard work ^_^ Jul 27 02:00:18 befr0d|N810: oh.. Jul 27 02:00:30 befr0d|N810: have you a sdk setup? Jul 27 02:01:10 befr0d|N810: otherwise you have to wait a bit until we release a new version... Jul 27 02:02:09 befr0d|N810: you could also dpkg --force-depends -i ...... :> Jul 27 02:02:10 hm Jul 27 02:02:35 befr0d|N810: you could also dpkg --force-depends -i ...... :> Jul 27 02:05:27 jott, ok, let me try it Jul 27 02:06:42 befr0d|N810: better remove (dpkg -r advanced-backlight) it before installation, this will force a reload of the plugin.. Jul 27 02:07:58 befr0d|N810: i'm off now. you could always ask people with an chinook sdk to build it for you. it's all in svn :) Jul 27 02:09:22 thanks jott Jul 27 02:09:26 night. Jul 27 02:16:07 rm_you: I've started working on it. Jul 27 02:16:13 Did some today, will do more tomorrow. Jul 27 02:26:10 Found out why Epiphany built against WebKit isn't storing my cookie's. Jul 27 02:26:25 Epiphany is relying on WebKit's cookie management system to store the cookies on disk which it doesn't do yet. Jul 27 02:26:35 s/\'// Jul 27 02:26:43 Wow, embarrassing typo. Jul 27 02:46:16 Er, I'm new to the Maemo community. Are infrastructure breakages a la tablets-dev and Extras common? Jul 27 02:47:34 slightly more common than one would like Jul 27 02:47:53 maybe a few times lsat year, not sure Jul 27 02:49:46 hm. that's unfortunate. Is there the possibility of coordinating mirroring with Nokia so we don't have that single point of failure? Jul 27 02:55:07 mirroring might be a tricky issue because the stuff on tablets-dev isn't "free as in speech" and actually has a click through license Jul 27 02:55:58 hence the need to coordinate with Nokia :) Jul 27 02:57:10 I don't think that managers higher up the chain would want people mirroring stuff. and I don't think that their engineers would be able to say "go ahead" if we asked them Jul 27 02:57:25 callahad, you could always ask I guess Jul 27 02:57:59 I think I'll lurk in the community a little longer before I try to nip at the heels of the big N :) Jul 27 02:58:25 nah, nip at them all you want :) Jul 27 02:58:29 they generally take it well Jul 27 02:59:50 Glad to hear it. They have some seriously cool hardware, and it seems to be supporting a rather amicable community too. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 27 02:59:57 2008