**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 31 02:59:57 2008
Jul 31 04:27:04 <ricko73> is Diablo stable?
Jul 31 04:27:20 <rm_you> seems so
Jul 31 04:27:26 <ricko73> I'm assuming by now it should be, but wanted to check before upgrading
Jul 31 04:27:38 <ricko73> what I have on there has been good to be so far
Jul 31 04:57:02 <tank-man> ricko73, you can dual boot if you want to be safe
Jul 31 05:10:52 <kaie> hi. is it possible to view web sites with asian fonts on the n810 ?
Jul 31 05:21:52 <aspect> no included international calls or data
Jul 31 05:21:52 <aspect> except vidafone live!#
Jul 31 05:22:06 <aspect> $1/5min block for data within the cap
Jul 31 05:22:34 <aspect> and they say n95 on the $49 plan in the front page but not in details
Jul 31 05:23:38 <aspect> but the switching credit is > what optus is offering me
Jul 31 05:24:02 <johnx> kaie, yes
Jul 31 05:24:26 <aspect> oops wrong channel :P
Jul 31 05:24:31 <aspect> sorry all
Jul 31 05:24:31 <kaie> johnx, how? on a thai website my device only displays horizontal lines. install packages?
Jul 31 05:24:47 <johnx> kaie, aaah, ok. you might need a thai font
Jul 31 05:24:55 <johnx> can you tell me which website it is?
Jul 31 05:26:37 <kaie> johnx, for example http://code.google.com/p/thai-l10n/
Jul 31 05:30:21 <johnx> I added a thai font and I'll see if that's enough to make it work
Jul 31 05:36:40 <johnx> I added a collection of thai truetype fonts under /usr/share/fonts/thai and it seems to be working
Jul 31 05:37:14 <johnx> At least it's displaying characters instead of the horizontal lines...but I can't read Thai so I'm not sure if it's perfect
Jul 31 05:40:21 <kaie> johnx, that sounds cool thanks for testing that! did you simply put .ttf files there? I will try to find some fonts
Jul 31 05:40:40 <kaie> my linux system probably has some
Jul 31 05:42:46 <johnx> kaie, yes. I did mkdir /usr/share/fonts/thai && cp some-thai-font.ttf /usr/share/fonts/thai && reboot
Jul 31 05:43:02 <johnx> the reboot probably isn't necessary, but it seemed simplest at the time
Jul 31 06:05:56 <kaie> johnx, thx. it's exciting that it's that simple to fix. I confirm it works for me too
Jul 31 06:17:13 <kaie> reboot was not necessary
Jul 31 06:31:50 <trickie|work> morning
Jul 31 06:37:49 <bef0rd> hi.
Jul 31 06:53:51 <aquatix> morning all
Jul 31 06:54:12 <zap> here's the morning
Jul 31 06:54:21 <zap> and my ssh key still doesnt work on garage :)
Jul 31 06:58:00 <zap> oops, actually it does
Jul 31 07:36:41 <atka^^> good morning ^^
Jul 31 07:41:36 <freet15> :)
Jul 31 07:43:19 <bef0rd> hai 2 u
Jul 31 07:45:14 <hrw> morning
Jul 31 07:46:35 <Dekaritae> http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-SD4-32GB-Flash-Memory/dp/B001C9P5TO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1217403591&sr=8-2
Jul 31 07:48:29 <atka^^> nice..
Jul 31 07:58:51 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jul 31 07:59:25 <lbt> Top of the day to you all :)
Jul 31 08:00:15 <RST38h> hello jaffa, hrw
Jul 31 08:09:26 <Khertan> Hi !
Jul 31 08:09:28 <bef0rd> ;_;
Jul 31 08:09:48 <atka^^> hi
Jul 31 08:10:41 <avs> If anyone will be at Black Hat or DEFCON in Las Vegas next week, and wants to meet with Nokia side maemo security guys, contact me.
Jul 31 08:11:24 <Khertan> someone know the company Bravofly ?
Jul 31 08:11:29 <bef0rd> no
Jul 31 08:12:06 <bef0rd> I'm wondering, I guess we are all vulnerable to http://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/2008/mfsa2008-34.html with microb, right?
Jul 31 08:17:46 <Khertan> bef0rd > you could check on svn ...http://browser.garage.maemo.org/docs/build_howto.html
Jul 31 08:21:37 <k88> anyone knows where i can find pangoft2 library ?
Jul 31 08:22:39 <Khertan> someone know easyjet company ? have already flight on his plane ?
Jul 31 08:23:26 <dannym> zap: hi :)
Jul 31 08:23:30 <qwerty12> In the UK, there's a whole pissing programme dedicated to easyjet :P
Jul 31 08:24:19 <Khertan> what do u mean by a whole pissing programme ?
Jul 31 08:24:24 <Khertan> a tv show ,
Jul 31 08:24:25 <Khertan> ?
Jul 31 08:24:47 <qwerty12> Yeah, a tv show :D. I just think it's pointless :)
Jul 31 08:24:50 <dannym> zap: I checked the ZIP3 source code now; there is an "extra field" where they store the UTF-8 version of each name in the Table Of Contents...
Jul 31 08:25:50 <Khertan> arg ... airfrance have a late flight ... but easyjet not ...
Jul 31 08:26:32 <Khertan> AirFrance   294,51 Euros
Jul 31 08:26:45 <Khertan> EasyJet 109,97 Euro
Jul 31 08:27:26 <Khertan> but the fly back departure is saturday at 18h10
Jul 31 08:28:26 <Khertan> hum ...
Jul 31 08:28:59 <dannym> zap: however, they set the locale using 'loc = setlocale(LC_CTYPE, "en_US.UTF-8");' _within_ the ZIP program (WTF)... and only when that succeeds, then they use UTF-8... and that fails on the device (in addition to being weird)
Jul 31 08:29:19 <dannym> zap: and in "UNZIP" they set the locale using 'loc = setlocale(LC_CTYPE, "en_GB.UTF-8");' _within_ the program... (yeah, that's a different one)
Jul 31 08:29:28 <dannym> I don't know what they are smoking...
Jul 31 08:35:19 <Khertan> hum ... someone know berlin here ?
Jul 31 08:38:42 <Khertan> OUCH ! 177 Euros for two night at Berlin !
Jul 31 08:39:23 <dannym> Khertan: I was at the Chaos Communication Congress in Berlin once, why?
Jul 31 08:41:16 <Khertan> this was to know if there is other hotel than ibis, mercure(accord) in berlin a bit less cheaper
Jul 31 08:42:10 <dannym> less cheaper? ;)
Jul 31 08:42:49 <Khertan> yeah ... more cheap :)
Jul 31 08:43:27 <dannym> Khertan: I paid EUR 80 per night too (at the Park Inn)... (though at the CCC there was a big dark room where you could sleep in your sleeping bag :D I'm somehow too old to survive that without cramps (yeah yeah - I <- old geezer ;)))
Jul 31 08:43:51 <Khertan> arf
Jul 31 08:44:18 <Khertan> the last time a paid a night in an hotel for 99 Euros it was an ****
Jul 31 08:44:23 <Khertan> not an ibis hotel !
Jul 31 08:45:27 <dannym> I see...
Jul 31 08:46:16 <Khertan> ouch more i search more it s high
Jul 31 08:47:31 <Khertan> it ll be cheap to come back in france to sleep by plane :)
Jul 31 08:48:07 <Khertan>   Winter's Hôtel Berlin City Messe - 3* - Berlin          .... 70 Euros
Jul 31 08:48:24 <dannym> zap: there's a new option "-UN=UTF8" which forces UTF-8 names into the regular name field (and we all know which user will specify that option: nooobody :D)
Jul 31 08:50:28 <Khertan> huhu and it s more high to travel in train than plane
Jul 31 08:54:29 <crashanddie> more high ?
Jul 31 08:54:59 <rm_you> more expensive?
Jul 31 08:55:06 <crashanddie> I think you'll be, in fact, quite higher in a plane than in a train :P
Jul 31 08:55:21 <rm_you> but you can't smoke on planes
Jul 31 08:55:28 <rm_you> so i think you could get higher on a train :)
Jul 31 08:55:31 <crashanddie> can't smoke on trains either
Jul 31 08:55:44 <Khertan> "which is a 2-star hotel sharing the same building and offering single and double rooms from 15€ and 28€. "
Jul 31 08:55:55 <rm_you> lol
Jul 31 08:55:55 <Khertan> hum when i look i get 28 Euros !
Jul 31 08:56:17 <crashanddie> Khertan, you looking into coming to the summit ?
Jul 31 08:56:30 <Khertan> yes
Jul 31 08:56:37 <crashanddie> Khertan, well, if you want to train your german, or english a bit
Jul 31 08:56:38 <Khertan> appliance accepted :)
Jul 31 08:56:42 <crashanddie> www.couchsurfing.com
Jul 31 08:56:47 <Khertan> héhé
Jul 31 08:56:57 <Khertan> i'm really not a adept of couchsurfing
Jul 31 08:57:06 <crashanddie> t'as obtenu le sponsoring de Nokia ?
Jul 31 08:57:09 <Khertan> oui :)
Jul 31 08:57:17 <crashanddie> oooooh, gg mon gars, gg :)
Jul 31 08:57:23 <Khertan> rm_you > yes more expensive :)
Jul 31 08:57:25 <Khertan> thx
Jul 31 08:57:38 <zap> dannym: cool. I have posted some news on project page :)
Jul 31 08:58:02 <Khertan> crashanddie > five minutes after i apply, i get the answer ... :)
Jul 31 08:58:05 <zap> dannym: I would like you to have a look at the unzip-fm package, can you?
Jul 31 08:58:23 <crashanddie> Anyway, I have a shitload to do, plane in 6 hours !
Jul 31 08:58:40 <crashanddie> Khertan, congrats :)
Jul 31 09:00:28 <Khertan> hostel is really expensive in Berlin !
Jul 31 09:00:34 <Khertan> specially near c-base
Jul 31 09:01:22 <Khertan> ouch ... when i go to the validation process ao hostel is now 280 Euros
Jul 31 09:01:22 <Khertan> !
Jul 31 09:01:30 <Khertan> 248
Jul 31 09:02:20 <crashanddie> damnit
Jul 31 09:02:30 <crashanddie> the tubes to the UK are full, my phone calls won't get through
Jul 31 09:02:54 <crashanddie> This is the 21st century for crying out loud, isn't there a satellite or whatever to help me out ?
Jul 31 09:03:49 <inz> Use tha intartubes
Jul 31 09:04:32 <dannym> zap: cool :)
Jul 31 09:04:52 <crashanddie> inz, the hell you think I'm doing ?
Jul 31 09:05:44 <dannym> zap: yeah, I'll gladly have a look at the "unzip-fm" package *curious* :)
Jul 31 09:05:56 <inz> crash, oh, right ;)
Jul 31 09:06:20 <rm_you> Khertan: lol I had to sit on the edge of my seat for the better part of a month before they accepted me :P
Jul 31 09:06:52 <Khertan> rm_you > héhé
Jul 31 09:07:18 <Khertan> where do you find a bed ?
Jul 31 09:07:41 <crashanddie> usually in a bedroom
Jul 31 09:08:22 <Khertan> lloll ...
Jul 31 09:08:35 <Khertan> i would say which hostel ?
Jul 31 09:08:53 <rm_you> I am couchsurfing ^_^
Jul 31 09:08:54 <crashanddie> then just ask "where are you staying ?"
Jul 31 09:09:00 <Khertan> :)
Jul 31 09:09:06 <crashanddie> rm_you, haha :D Sweet
Jul 31 09:09:11 <rm_you> with the almighty jott :P
Jul 31 09:09:15 <crashanddie> I bet you're squatting in jott's place
Jul 31 09:09:18 <crashanddie> Haha :D
Jul 31 09:09:19 <rm_you> yeah
Jul 31 09:09:38 <crashanddie> I had an awesome chat with him last night
Jul 31 09:09:48 <rm_you> oh?
Jul 31 09:10:12 <crashanddie> starting at 2:20, ending at 3:55 :D
Jul 31 09:10:21 <rm_you> that is one hell of a chat :P
Jul 31 09:10:43 <Khertan> rah ... can't understand http://www.hotelpensionberlin.de/ ...
Jul 31 09:11:44 <dannym> Khertan: I can speak German and read it to you :)
Jul 31 09:11:48 <rm_you> i totally read hotel-penis-on-berlin >_>
Jul 31 09:11:55 <dannym> hehehe
Jul 31 09:11:59 <dannym> yeah :)
Jul 31 09:12:22 <rm_you> *doubletake* OH --pension--
Jul 31 09:12:51 <dannym> zap: I think we should customize the "setlocale" call in "zip"... it will fail like it is now... do you have a scratchbox handy? (I'm at work so I don't right now)
Jul 31 09:13:35 <Khertan> dannym > if i can't understand their page ... i think i ll have some problem to communicate on i was in the hostel :)
Jul 31 09:13:47 <spcui> how to set the shortcut on N810? just like <ctrl>s
Jul 31 09:13:52 <dannym> zap: I'd like to know what the result of "setlocale(LC_CTYPE, "en_US.UTF-8")" is when running it on the device :)
Jul 31 09:14:07 <Khertan> but thx
Jul 31 09:14:12 <rm_you> i need $5000
Jul 31 09:14:14 <rm_you> >_>
Jul 31 09:14:24 <crashanddie> Khertan, DZ == doppelzimmer == chambre double, EZ == eizelzimmer == chambre simple, no idea what MZ is
Jul 31 09:14:44 <dannym> Khertan: well the page is a meta-page so it doesn't mean the actual hostel won't understand you just that the meta-page designer was lazy :)
Jul 31 09:14:46 <crashanddie> einzel**
Jul 31 09:15:03 <rm_you> moozlezimmer == chambre cow :P
Jul 31 09:15:09 <Khertan> lol
Jul 31 09:15:33 <dannym> "MZ" is multiple (more than 3) beds ("Mehrbettzimmer")
Jul 31 09:15:46 <crashanddie> oh, ok
Jul 31 09:15:59 <rm_you> hey, i know all those words :P
Jul 31 09:16:03 <rm_you> yay for highschool german
Jul 31 09:16:15 <dannym> nice :)
Jul 31 09:16:17 <crashanddie> Same here
Jul 31 09:16:22 <crashanddie> + 1 month in Hamburg
Jul 31 09:16:43 <rm_you> everyone was like, take spanish, at least that will be somewhat useful
Jul 31 09:16:48 <rm_you> well, WHAT NOW, bitches!?
Jul 31 09:16:52 <rm_you> ^_^
Jul 31 09:16:56 <crashanddie> haha
Jul 31 09:17:17 <glass> spain has cheap coke
Jul 31 09:17:20 <crashanddie> I'd love to see someone go to Berlin "Ola, que tal ?"
Jul 31 09:17:47 <Khertan> i ve stay one month in Ravensburg ... but this isn't a reason to speak the language :)
Jul 31 09:17:53 <Khertan> :)
Jul 31 09:19:05 <Khertan> i think it ll be a bad idea to find an hostel to far away from c-base ... it ll have more chance to be lost :)
Jul 31 09:19:23 * Khertan think to download map of berlin on the n810
Jul 31 09:19:27 <Khertan> :)
Jul 31 09:19:36 <crashanddie> "Hola, tiene usted algún cuarto?" "Por supuesto tenemos cuartos, nosotros somos un hotel!"
Jul 31 09:20:48 <lardman> derf: are you about?
Jul 31 09:20:49 <rm_you> Ack!
Jul 31 09:20:51 <lcuk> <speak accent="northern"> can i have a room please</speak>
Jul 31 09:21:09 <crashanddie> translation: "Hi, do you have any rooms ?" "Of course we have rooms, this is a hotel !"
Jul 31 09:21:15 <lcuk> mornin folks \o
Jul 31 09:21:15 <rm_you> Ich spreche Spanish nicht! (stimmt?)
Jul 31 09:21:32 * lcuk could possibly ask for a kebab in german
Jul 31 09:21:37 <Khertan> lol
Jul 31 09:21:41 <dannym> <speak accent="lolcat">can I haz room plz?</speak>
Jul 31 09:21:43 <lardman> Ein Kebab bitte
Jul 31 09:21:45 <crashanddie> Ich kan gein Spanien sprechen ?
Jul 31 09:21:51 <dannym> kein* :)
Jul 31 09:21:53 <rm_you> kein?
Jul 31 09:21:54 <rm_you> yeah
Jul 31 09:22:01 <crashanddie> typo :-°
Jul 31 09:22:04 <rm_you> kan == kanne?
Jul 31 09:22:08 <Khertan> can
Jul 31 09:22:13 <rm_you> shortened?
Jul 31 09:22:14 <rm_you> right
Jul 31 09:22:17 <lcuk> ein geeros pitta bitte?    (my god, my accent is bad even on irc)
Jul 31 09:22:19 <dannym> kann = can
Jul 31 09:22:38 <crashanddie> or we can just play our usual assholes
Jul 31 09:22:48 <rm_you> kann is shortened to kan for the "ich" form, not made "kanne"?
Jul 31 09:23:09 <dannym> nom that's a typo too :)
Jul 31 09:23:10 <crashanddie> Walk up to the desk, "hey bro, I need to crash, gimme some keys and a room, hear me ? Awesome"
Jul 31 09:23:11 <Khertan> ein Bien bitte
Jul 31 09:23:12 <dannym> no,*
Jul 31 09:23:13 <Khertan> :)
Jul 31 09:23:14 <rm_you> kan kannt kanst?
Jul 31 09:23:34 <dannym> ich kann, du kannst, er kann, sie kann, es kann
Jul 31 09:23:39 <lcuk> ive been thinking about this server for tablet/real communication:  is there anything wrong with using an irc channel for communication: send strokes as text commands and use a custom client on device and big pc to decode the stroke messages as they occur
Jul 31 09:23:44 <lardman> rm_you: it's "Ich kann"
Jul 31 09:23:48 <rm_you> ah ok
Jul 31 09:23:49 <Khertan> lol
Jul 31 09:24:05 <lardman> lcuk: like a bot master?
Jul 31 09:24:05 * rm_you needs to do more german study anyway
Jul 31 09:24:24 <crashanddie> lcuk, if IRC isn't too much hassle
Jul 31 09:24:36 <lcuk> lardman, no just a custom client on the tablet for interactive whiteboard and chat
Jul 31 09:24:39 <rm_you> lcuk: things like that are done a lot in MMO plugins
Jul 31 09:24:47 <crashanddie> lcuk, also, IRC can't work on a node only base, it needs a server...
Jul 31 09:24:58 <lcuk> freenode
Jul 31 09:25:01 <lardman> what about extending one of the IM clients, then it might be usable with other platforms too
Jul 31 09:25:03 <rm_you> lcuk: you wouldnt actually want to use IRC, but a custom message hub seems like it makes sense
Jul 31 09:25:25 <crashanddie> I mean... Who here never coded a poor man's IRC in 2 hours ?
Jul 31 09:25:30 <dannym> lcuk: I remember that someone wrote a vector dooding plugin for XChat that used normal IRC messages too :)
Jul 31 09:25:31 <lcuk> why not irc - the servers are there, they have the message model in place
Jul 31 09:25:42 <rm_you> crashanddie: took me 3-4 for my java client >_> I lose
Jul 31 09:25:55 <lcuk> strokes lines can be short items:   dannym that sounds about right
Jul 31 09:25:57 <lardman> rm_you: does the datamatrix code expect its input to be b&w and correctly aligned, or does it try to do this?
Jul 31 09:26:01 <crashanddie> rm_you, no need for a client, just a small threaded server, and telnet
Jul 31 09:26:07 <rm_you> lardman: expects full color
Jul 31 09:26:14 <rm_you> lardman: and it takes care of alignment
Jul 31 09:26:21 <Khertan> 3,2 km
Jul 31 09:26:29 <rm_you> lardman: literally all we have to do is pass the image directly from the camera to the library and it will work
Jul 31 09:26:33 <Khertan> hum ... not so bad ... 45min to walk
Jul 31 09:26:36 <crashanddie> anyway, 'later
Jul 31 09:26:38 <lardman> rm_you: ok, you said you were having troubles though
Jul 31 09:26:40 <rm_you> lardman: i just dont understand the image storage formats
Jul 31 09:26:44 <lcuk> cya later
Jul 31 09:26:50 <lardman> lcuk: bye
Jul 31 09:26:57 <dannym> lcuk: bye :)
Jul 31 09:26:58 <rm_you> lardman: it said stuff about pixel bit order and i was like, wut?
Jul 31 09:26:59 <lcuk> rm_you, is this the datamatrix library you asked me about?
Jul 31 09:27:03 <rm_you> lcuk: yes
Jul 31 09:27:05 * lcuk isnt goin yet
Jul 31 09:27:18 <lardman> :)
Jul 31 09:27:21 <dannym> hehe
Jul 31 09:27:30 <dannym> crashanddie is :)
Jul 31 09:27:39 <rm_you> lol
Jul 31 09:27:40 <lardman> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2008-07-31.log.html search for "QR code"
Jul 31 09:27:58 <lardman> there's an image and a website which will process it using zxing, it's pretty impressive
Jul 31 09:28:03 <rm_you> crashanddie: it was a java client because i wanted people to be able to use it straight from a webstart thing
Jul 31 09:28:37 <crashanddie> dannym, I'm what ,
Jul 31 09:28:38 <crashanddie> ?
Jul 31 09:28:48 <crashanddie> oh, right
Jul 31 09:28:49 <lcuk> goin
Jul 31 09:28:49 <crashanddie> nevermind
Jul 31 09:28:50 <crashanddie> cheers
Jul 31 09:29:19 <crashanddie> though, thanks lardman and dannym, that helped pumping up my ego :D
Jul 31 09:29:35 <dannym> hehehe
Jul 31 09:29:53 <lcuk> are you powering down your server before you leave france?
Jul 31 09:30:36 <crashanddie> no, why would I ?
Jul 31 09:31:16 * rm_you is investigating getting a 4U server chassis with 5+ hotswap drive bays for his new RAID
Jul 31 09:32:00 <RST38h> rm_you: BTW, PackRat appears to be down
Jul 31 09:32:15 <crashanddie> lcuk, I'm going to have to do a network/vpn switch at some point though, so I'll be disconnected a few times, probably
Jul 31 09:32:16 * qwerty12_N800 actually prefers microsoft update compared to this 258 update i'm installing in ubuntu
Jul 31 09:32:23 <rm_you> RST38h: oh?
Jul 31 09:32:25 <crashanddie> well, the server will be disconnected/unavailable a few times
Jul 31 09:32:28 * lcuk really wants to RAID some 810s together
Jul 31 09:33:07 <lcuk> lol crashanddie  you running cat5 across the channel?
Jul 31 09:33:16 <dannym> can someone do me a favour and compile <http://pastebin.com/mf26c870> to a N8xx executable binary file?
Jul 31 09:33:33 <crashanddie> lcuk, the server stays here
Jul 31 09:33:59 <rm_you> RST38h: running the crawler...
Jul 31 09:34:16 <rm_you> i wonder if my cron script exploded
Jul 31 09:34:41 <rm_you> there, looks to be fixing it
Jul 31 09:35:18 <qwerty12_N800> dannym: find a way of installing sbox :p. i'd do it but i just reformatted my ubuntu install :)
Jul 31 09:35:22 <rm_you> RST38h: ah, bug
Jul 31 09:35:33 <rm_you> RST38h: it isn't sorting package numbers correctly
Jul 31 09:35:34 <inz> dannym, http://inz.fi/setlocale
Jul 31 09:35:58 <rm_you> example: Download  0.9-2, 0.8-1, 0.14-3, 0.11-7
Jul 31 09:36:07 <rm_you> it thinks 0.9-2 is the newest
Jul 31 09:36:20 <rm_you> 0.14-3 is the newest
Jul 31 09:36:20 <RST38h> rm_you: I guess we have to use a different sorting function
Jul 31 09:36:23 <RST38h> Lemme check...
Jul 31 09:36:25 <rm_you> yeah :/
Jul 31 09:36:35 <rm_you> may have to write a custom sort
Jul 31 09:36:49 <rm_you> or try to steal the ACTUAL sorting function from apt :P
Jul 31 09:36:50 <RST38h> rm_you: I think it comes from SQL ORDER BY statement
Jul 31 09:37:16 <RST38h> Hopefully, MySQL has some modifier to do sorting numerically
Jul 31 09:37:30 <rm_you> yeah tho it isnt necessarily numeric >_>
Jul 31 09:37:33 <rm_you> apt does odd sorting
Jul 31 09:37:47 <RST38h> it is numeric all right, when a digit occurs in the string
Jul 31 09:38:00 <rm_you> it has to understand things like 3.12-2osso3
Jul 31 09:40:06 <rm_you> 2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu6maemo1
Jul 31 09:40:07 <rm_you> >_>
Jul 31 09:40:09 <dannym> inz: thanks :) (though that was "text/plain", I got the downloader to override it though :D)
Jul 31 09:40:38 <dannym> as I thought, a locale called "en_US.UTF-8" doesn't exist on the N800 :(
Jul 31 09:40:51 <lcuk> dannym, if you have other small things like this to compile, its fairly simple to install gcc directly on the device, it might not be ideal for big projects, but is ideal for this kind of thing
Jul 31 09:41:04 <lardman> hmm, looks like libdmtx does scale/shear and barrel distortion compensation
Jul 31 09:41:10 <rm_you> lcuk: was gonna ask, how difficult was that?
Jul 31 09:41:19 <rm_you> lardman: yes it is very nice
Jul 31 09:41:22 <dannym> lcuk: really? cool...
Jul 31 09:41:25 <dannym> lcuk: how? :)
Jul 31 09:41:25 <lardman> rm_you: all good
Jul 31 09:41:36 <lcuk> add the sdk repo - add gcc and keep adding -dev libraries as required
Jul 31 09:41:38 <lcuk> its easy
Jul 31 09:41:45 <rm_you> lardman: i tested using the camera application, took pictures and ran them through their utility programs, they decoded perfectly
Jul 31 09:41:48 <rm_you> even the complex ones
Jul 31 09:41:48 <lardman> rm_you: I was just looking at similar scale/shear removal code in zxing
Jul 31 09:42:02 <dannym> how do I find out which encoding the locales in "locale -a" have?
Jul 31 09:42:04 <lardman> but...?
Jul 31 09:42:13 <qwerty12_N800> ~lart accesskit
Jul 31 09:42:15 <lardman> encoding is the issue?
Jul 31 09:42:24 <rm_you> lardman: so if we can just get the image data to fit into their data format
Jul 31 09:42:26 <rm_you> yeah >_>
Jul 31 09:42:30 <rm_you> not sure how to do that
Jul 31 09:42:32 <lardman> ok, cool
Jul 31 09:42:45 <rm_you> they are very vague about the data format stuff <_<
Jul 31 09:42:50 <lcuk> rm_you, im waving my walking stick @ you \o
Jul 31 09:42:50 <lardman> :)
Jul 31 09:42:53 <rm_you> at least, for as little i know about it
Jul 31 09:42:57 <rm_you> lol lcuk
Jul 31 09:43:05 <lcuk> i went through it didnt i :P
Jul 31 09:43:20 <lcuk> did i actually give you a pastebin with it?
Jul 31 09:43:24 <rm_you> lcuk: yeah
Jul 31 09:43:29 <rm_you> lcuk: it doesnt quite work tho
Jul 31 09:43:40 <rm_you> lcuk: more like, what it DOES is segfault
Jul 31 09:43:44 <rm_you> so. >_>
Jul 31 09:43:46 <lardman> the PDF-417 decoder expects an aligned binary image, so I'm looking to see where to grab the alignment code & Booleanisation code from
Jul 31 09:43:49 <RST38h> rm_you: I think whatever is not numeric it sorts normally
Jul 31 09:43:59 <lcuk> well you couldv said and i wouldv talked with you then and got it workin
Jul 31 09:44:08 <rm_you> lcuk: lol
Jul 31 09:44:11 <dannym> qwerty12_N800: I'd like to find a way to install sbox but unfortunately this is a computer in a bank (as in financial backbone) and they don't take it kindly when I install weird apps on it :)
Jul 31 09:44:13 <rm_you> lcuk: you were busy :P
Jul 31 09:44:15 <lcuk> most likely it will nbeed to run the _alloc type function
Jul 31 09:44:19 <lcuk> im always busy :P
Jul 31 09:44:21 <rm_you> heh
Jul 31 09:44:41 <rm_you> was trying not to bother you, while you were excited about your new liqbase features :P
Jul 31 09:44:59 <lcuk> \o/ yer i think i can build a ui now
Jul 31 09:45:04 <rm_you> i am also busy running a D&D campaign <_<
Jul 31 09:45:10 <rm_you> entirely unrelated :P
Jul 31 09:45:37 * lcuk is a levvel 70 c coding mage
Jul 31 09:45:37 <qwerty12_N800> dannym: ahh, I wouldn't attempt it then :p. does your bank use *nix?
Jul 31 09:45:49 <lcuk> -v of course
Jul 31 09:46:05 <lcuk> bbl
Jul 31 09:46:09 <dannym> qwerty12_N800: hmm, mostly Solaris for the important machines and for Windows XP the dumb terminals...
Jul 31 09:46:10 <rm_you> bbl as well
Jul 31 09:46:23 <rm_you> well, slightly AFK, beep me if you need me
Jul 31 09:46:34 <rm_you> still in the same room
Jul 31 09:47:25 <qwerty12_N800> dannym: ahh. the bank i'm with used to use nt. i think they upgraded to xp, heh
Jul 31 09:48:23 <dannym> qwerty12_N800: hehe, yeah, they tend to stay on the tried-and-true versions for a loooong time... I saw a lot of Cobol programs still in use in the data center :)
Jul 31 09:49:15 <qwerty12_N800> Lol
Jul 31 09:49:49 <lardman> rm_you: in the test code, do you actually set the height & width of the data in the image structure?
Jul 31 09:50:38 <lardman> you've got a couple of comments: //image.width=width; (which should be //image->width=width; I think)
Jul 31 09:51:12 <qwerty12_N800> X-Fade: what happens if I format the partition my gpg + ssh keys are on? Can I generate a new pair or am I SOL?
Jul 31 09:52:45 <Khertan> who is responsible to validate the amount of the sponsorship ?
Jul 31 09:53:13 <hrw> quil?
Jul 31 09:53:45 <hrw> someone can suggest good notetaking application for maemo? other then standard Notes or liqbase
Jul 31 09:53:45 <Khertan> 374.72 Euros TTC Hostel + Plane
Jul 31 09:54:05 <qwerty12_N800> hrw: xournal?
Jul 31 09:54:40 <hrw> qwerty12_N800: ah.. forgot to add this to the list of 'please ignore'
Jul 31 09:54:40 <qwerty12_N800> never used it but i hear maemopad+  is pretty decent
Jul 31 09:55:16 <Khertan> hrw > :)
Jul 31 09:56:34 * qwerty12_N800 goes to install kde4. i know now installing kubuntu-desktop isn't a good thing to do before that :/
Jul 31 09:57:21 <hrw> qwerty12_N800: going to kde4 on desktop?
Jul 31 09:58:07 <qwerty12_N800> hrw: yeah. i hope that tablet port is released soon though...
Jul 31 10:15:10 <dannym> qwerty12_N800: hmm? for the SSH keys you can just generate a new pair (for the public key authentication) :)
Jul 31 10:15:53 <dannym> qwerty12_N800: though how do you get it to the destination server... if you have password auth, it's fine... otherwise root needs to put the new key up for you..
Jul 31 10:21:47 <qwerty12_N800> dannym: thanks, it's for the extras stuff. maybe X-Fade can help me out  with it :)
Jul 31 10:21:51 <liri> I'm unable to get my hands on an N800
Jul 31 10:22:02 <liri> though I might be able to get an N770
Jul 31 10:22:34 <inz> "There is no N770"
Jul 31 10:23:04 <liri> so you don't recommend settling for it? not even just for playing around?
Jul 31 10:23:07 <dannym> *points at his Nokia 770* "You don't exist!" :->
Jul 31 10:23:29 <dannym> nah, the name was without the "N" because it wasn't part of the N series :)
Jul 31 10:23:31 <lardman> s/N770/770
Jul 31 10:23:38 <liri> ahh
Jul 31 10:24:09 <liri> how does it compare with the n800 in terms of speed?
Jul 31 10:24:16 <liri> is it considerable?
Jul 31 10:24:24 <dannym> liri: I liked the Nokia 770... actually the keys on the side are better (bigger) on the 770 than on the N800... :)
Jul 31 10:25:21 <liri> if you like it so much I can buy it and sell it to you for the n800 you have :)
Jul 31 10:25:23 <dannym> liri: it's a little bit slower (not that much for normal stuff - though when doing video you'll notice it) and it has (too) little RAM ...
Jul 31 10:26:16 <dannym> liri: I have one already, but good try ;)
Jul 31 10:26:28 <Khertan> 770, n800, n810
Jul 31 10:26:54 <Khertan> carrefull Nokia 810 exist too :)
Jul 31 10:26:58 <Khertan> http://www.nokia.fr/A4363274
Jul 31 10:27:29 <dannym> liri: but is the 770 Hacker edition OS still alive? if not, you'll not get OS updates... <http://os2007on770.garage.maemo.org/>
Jul 31 10:29:23 <liri> n810 though is pricey for me to get
Jul 31 10:29:45 <liri> yeah I don't want the 770, I need to get that n800
Jul 31 10:29:48 <dannym> (as you can see, the buttons are bigger on the Nokia 770 :) I have no idea what happened with the N800 buttons? Ran out of space? ;))
Jul 31 10:30:17 <liri> what do you do with the 770?
Jul 31 10:30:52 <MangoFusion> have they stopped selling n800's?
Jul 31 10:31:28 <crashanddie> why is it everytime you're urgently waiting for an email, the only ones that get through are "Breakthrough in male enhancing !"
Jul 31 10:31:41 <liri> MangoFusion: well they stopped manufacturing it and it's almost out of every store. and when it is available it's about $270
Jul 31 10:31:57 <liri> lol crashanddie
Jul 31 10:31:58 <MangoFusion> makes me somewhat glad i still have mine
Jul 31 10:31:59 <dannym> liri: since I have the N800 too the 770 is gathering dust when I'm not borrowing it around :) before that, E-book reading, mp3... nothing much else (runs out of RAM quickly)
Jul 31 10:32:00 <MangoFusion> ;)
Jul 31 10:32:27 <liri> yep
Jul 31 10:32:43 <dannym> lending*
Jul 31 10:33:20 <MangoFusion> i'd sell mine, but i still use it. and it still works. ;)
Jul 31 10:34:05 <aspect> keep an eye on ebay, they come up fairly regularly still. AU retail price was closer to $350 and I picked up my 800 2 weeks ago for $200
Jul 31 10:34:51 <liri> aspect: $200 but without shipping, that will be closer to $50 more for me
Jul 31 10:35:50 <hrw> liri: avoid 770 unless you get it for less then 20 usd
Jul 31 10:36:11 <aspect> liri: shipping to where? I guess you're saying it's unlikely you can buy it locally?
Jul 31 10:36:56 <liri> aspect: yes I'm unable to buy it locally. Shipping to Israel.
Jul 31 10:37:57 <liri> hrw: I agree
Jul 31 10:38:28 <hrw> I have my 770 somewhere but I got it for best available price
Jul 31 10:55:23 <qwerty12_N800> Has anyone done a gtkperf in diablo?
Jul 31 10:57:46 <Khertan_n810> huhu
Jul 31 10:57:59 <Khertan_n810> mcontacts google sync work !
Jul 31 10:58:23 <Khertan_n810> i need to make an gui now
Jul 31 10:58:48 <Khertan_n810> i hope it will be ready for the summit
Jul 31 11:02:13 <hrw> Khertan: does it supports attenders, alarms, recurrences?
Jul 31 11:03:41 <Khertan_n810> contacts ...
Jul 31 11:03:44 <Khertan_n810> not agenda
Jul 31 11:03:59 <hrw> ah.. I misread
Jul 31 11:04:28 <Khertan_n810> calendar don t suppor  yet alarm
Jul 31 11:04:37 <Khertan_n810> but recurrences yes
Jul 31 11:04:49 <hrw> attenders?
Jul 31 11:04:57 <hrw> colours?
Jul 31 11:05:02 <Khertan_n810> what is it ?
Jul 31 11:05:53 <hrw> attenders? people which are parts of event
Jul 31 11:06:14 <Khertan_n810> ah not yet :)
Jul 31 11:06:15 <hrw> if I add event 'meeting with David' I want to add link to David contact inside
Jul 31 11:06:40 <Khertan_n810> as mContacts isn t finish :)
Jul 31 11:07:13 <hrw> Khertan: mcontacts use eds to contact with maemo contacts base?
Jul 31 11:07:57 <Khertan_n810> no
Jul 31 11:08:05 <hrw> ok, then I forget about it
Jul 31 11:08:06 <hrw> ;D
Jul 31 11:08:12 <Khertan_n810> but a sync is planned with eds
Jul 31 11:08:21 <Jaffa> Oooh, logo winner.
Jul 31 11:08:22 <Khertan_n810> but i don t like eds
Jul 31 11:08:42 <Khertan_n810> jaffa > constest is end ?
Jul 31 11:08:44 <hrw> Khertan: will you support making calls/chats from mcontacts?
Jul 31 11:09:05 <Khertan_n810> hrw > of course
Jul 31 11:09:42 <hrw> any preliminary betas?
Jul 31 11:10:13 <Khertan_n810> not yet
Jul 31 11:10:14 <Jaffa> Khertan_n810: yup. http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_glaoliver_1.png is the winner.
Jul 31 11:10:19 <Khertan_n810> there is no ui
Jul 31 11:10:42 <Khertan_n810> jaffa > there was no vote ?
Jul 31 11:10:47 * Jaffa isn't a big fan - but that could just be the gradient
Jul 31 11:11:07 <Jaffa> Khertan_n810: There was a call for debate on maemo-community but there was never going to be a vote.
Jul 31 11:11:44 <hrw> I wonder when maemo.org will get modem upgrade....
Jul 31 11:11:51 <qwerty12_N800> ^
Jul 31 11:12:11 <qwerty12_N800> the speed of maemo.org is a serious pisstake.
Jul 31 11:12:11 <Khertan_n810> ouch i don't like the logo
Jul 31 11:12:26 <jott> add a "beta" to it and we have an average web2.0 logo :P
Jul 31 11:12:36 <Khertan_n810> lol
Jul 31 11:13:33 <wnd> and what's with this fixation to æ?
Jul 31 11:14:13 <Khertan_n810> i don t like that too
Jul 31 11:15:03 <RST38h> hrw: Or just feed packet-pumping hamster bigger carrots
Jul 31 11:16:44 <Khertan_n810> hum opodo has very bad comments
Jul 31 11:16:57 <Khertan_n810> i should buy from someone else
Jul 31 11:17:54 <crashanddie> Khertan_n810, they had to steal from another language in order to make theirs more interesting :P
Jul 31 11:18:08 <crashanddie> Kinda sad, really, that you had to take it from the french :P
Jul 31 11:19:19 <Khertan_n810> crashanddie > i prefer to buy flight in french in this case i don t need to take an other "assurance"
Jul 31 11:19:43 <crashanddie> insurance
Jul 31 11:19:49 <Khertan_n810> :) thx
Jul 31 11:20:02 <crashanddie> so where you from, in France ?
Jul 31 11:20:07 <Khertan_n810> yes
Jul 31 11:20:15 <crashanddie> no, where ?
Jul 31 11:20:37 <Khertan_n810> france to berlin :) maemo summit :)
Jul 31 11:20:43 <crashanddie> ...
Jul 31 11:20:50 <crashanddie> I'm asking you where do you live in France ?
Jul 31 11:21:00 <Khertan_n810> Ah sorry :)
Jul 31 11:21:02 <crashanddie> Lille, Paris, Marseille, Lyon, Montpellier, Bordeau, Pau ?
Jul 31 11:21:03 <Khertan_n810> near paris
Jul 31 11:21:06 <crashanddie> ok
Jul 31 11:21:38 <Khertan_n810> in fact 60km in the north of paris
Jul 31 11:21:48 <crashanddie> Hmm
Jul 31 11:21:55 <crashanddie> This song comes to mind... Parigo, tête de veau
Jul 31 11:22:00 <Khertan_n810> lol
Jul 31 11:22:11 <crashanddie> I don't know how it goes after that, though
Jul 31 11:22:12 <Khertan_n810> et la suite ?
Jul 31 11:22:22 <crashanddie> parisien, tête de chien ?
Jul 31 11:22:29 <Khertan_n810> mairseillais enculé :)
Jul 31 11:22:46 <Khertan_n810> it s depends which football club you support :)
Jul 31 11:22:51 <crashanddie> I don't support any
Jul 31 11:22:57 <Khertan_n810> me too
Jul 31 11:23:35 <Khertan_n810> seeing guys ruuning after a ball isn't very pleasant
Jul 31 11:23:45 <Khertan_n810> s/pleasant/enjoying
Jul 31 11:23:53 <crashanddie> well, as much as I like the sport, I can't stand the french culture around it
Jul 31 11:24:11 <Khertan_n810> there is culture in france ?
Jul 31 11:24:19 <Khertan_n810> never see it :)
Jul 31 11:24:40 <crashanddie> I love watching a good world cup, or even the euro, but I'm really not all that interested in having some club being insulting and stuff towards another
Jul 31 11:25:36 <crashanddie> Khertan, [boy] "Alors Didier, c'est qui qui va gagner l'Euro 2008 ?" [deschamps] "Bha la France bien entendu" [boy] "Alors Djibril, c'est qui qui va gagner l'Euro 2008 ?"...
Jul 31 11:26:18 <crashanddie> I hate how the French become so obsessed with themselves during each international cup
Jul 31 11:26:27 <crashanddie> be it football, rugby, tennis, basketball
Jul 31 11:26:49 <crashanddie> everytime the French manage to get somewhere, even at the beginning, it's like they're going to own the whole world
Jul 31 11:27:53 <crashanddie> Did you watch the Eurovision ? Seriously, the two commentators were just pure racists... Talking how the eastern countries were helping each other out, and not voting for France, cuz else they wouldn't have any vote
Jul 31 11:28:26 <crashanddie> They didn't pay any attention to what the hosts were saying in between two songs, they were just babbling about how hot some chick was
Jul 31 11:28:43 <crashanddie> And completely disregarding the fact the French singer was utter bollocks
Jul 31 11:30:02 <crashanddie> I mean, the French really ought to take their head out of their asses, and start looking around, they always yell at how they hate the Americans, and the rest of the world, the truth is, they're not much better than the sad picture they keep recalling when thinking of the states
Jul 31 11:30:37 <crashanddie> [/rant]
Jul 31 11:33:41 <derf> lardman: Pong.
Jul 31 11:34:11 <lardman> derf: I was going to ask if your QR re-write is a complete re-write?
Jul 31 11:35:19 <derf> lardman: For the most part.
Jul 31 11:35:43 <lardman> In which case, have you implemented the routines to overcome image distortion?
Jul 31 11:35:49 <derf> Yes.
Jul 31 11:36:00 <bilboed-pi> which hotel are most people staying at for the Maemo Summit ?
Jul 31 11:36:08 <derf> At least through the binarization process.
Jul 31 11:36:19 <Khertan> re
Jul 31 11:36:19 <derf> I'm in the middle of the geometric distortion part.
Jul 31 11:36:22 <lardman> I'd like to use them for the 1D stacked barcode if possible, rather than re-writing it for each type of barcode
Jul 31 11:36:32 <derf> lardman: Yes, that would be a good idea.
Jul 31 11:36:51 <derf> I'm not sure how well they work, but they're at least there and ready to be improved.
Jul 31 11:36:55 <lardman> the zxing code does some nice re-use, with common routines, etc.
Jul 31 11:37:07 <Khertan> crashanddie> :)
Jul 31 11:37:07 <derf> lardman: Right, obviously we want to move in that direction.
Jul 31 11:37:23 <lardman> likewise binarization can probably be shared
Jul 31 11:37:25 <derf> I'll try to get that part cleand up and separated out and into svn today.
Jul 31 11:37:31 <lardman> cool, thanks
Jul 31 11:38:01 <derf> There's definitely still something wrong with the Wiener filter I got from this paper, but the rest of it should work.
Jul 31 11:38:15 <Khertan> bilboed-pi>http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2008/Accommodation
Jul 31 11:38:16 <lardman> how expensive is that filtering?
Jul 31 11:38:32 <lcuk> derf, get a smaller wiener and it should pass through the filter
Jul 31 11:38:38 <bilboed-pi> Khertan, thx :)
Jul 31 11:39:02 <Khertan> bilboed-pi > i m currently searching where to sleep :)
Jul 31 11:39:25 <derf> lcuk: Tee-hee.
Jul 31 11:39:36 <lcuk> khertan, take a maemo branded cardboard box
Jul 31 11:40:01 <Khertan> lcuk > cardboard box ?
Jul 31 11:40:09 <lardman> where do we get Maemo branded casrdboard boxes, or T-shirts?
Jul 31 11:40:10 <lcuk> for sleeping in
Jul 31 11:40:19 <Khertan> lol
Jul 31 11:40:23 <tigert> the branded box came with your device
Jul 31 11:40:39 <lcuk> lardman, i dont think they are ready yet, but doesnt cafe press let you upload any image?
Jul 31 11:40:41 <tigert> its a bit crammed though unfortunately, but that is to save the environment from excess trash burden
Jul 31 11:40:48 <lardman> lcuk: no idea
Jul 31 11:41:05 <derf> lardman: 12 multiplies, 27 adds, one division per pixel.
Jul 31 11:41:10 <lardman> tigert: it has plastic cover iirc, so we can even see out while in there
Jul 31 11:41:21 <tigert> lardman: yeh, and it protects from rain!
Jul 31 11:41:37 <lcuk> http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/
Jul 31 11:41:38 <lardman> derf: ok
Jul 31 11:41:47 <derf> But that's not the only filter.
Jul 31 11:41:54 <Khertan> bilboed-pi > i think i ll go here : http://www.generatorhostels.com/Berlin/
Jul 31 11:41:59 <lcuk> derf, how many memory accesses?
Jul 31 11:42:17 <lcuk> ie, does it require local adjacent pixels
Jul 31 11:42:21 <derf> lcuk: 27 or so.
Jul 31 11:42:21 <bilboed-pi> Khertan, damn, I'm really confused. What's the exact venue of the maemo summit ? Is it the same venue as for OSIM ?
Jul 31 11:42:59 <derf> lcuk: It computes mean and variance in a 3x3 area, and then the average variance in a 3x3 area.
Jul 31 11:43:02 <lcuk> derf, ouch!   is it a full 3*3 cube of pixels to filter the centre element?
Jul 31 11:43:06 <lcuk> lol yer
Jul 31 11:43:16 <derf> Actually, 27 is probably high.
Jul 31 11:43:21 <derf> 18 is closer to the mark.
Jul 31 11:43:32 <derf> At least for reads.
Jul 31 11:43:44 <Khertan> hum ... i ll made my own tshirt with my own maemo logo !
Jul 31 11:44:08 <Khertan> http://khertan.net/poubelle/logo1.png
Jul 31 11:44:15 <lcuk> Khertan, thats the idea - turn up to the summit with alternative designs, ie NOT the winning entry
Jul 31 11:44:23 <derf> But, anyway, I'm getting better results I think just disabling that stage.
Jul 31 11:44:36 <lardman> filtering should be swappable
Jul 31 11:44:44 <derf> But it's certainly along the lines of the most expensive filtering I'd want to do.
Jul 31 11:44:57 <lardman> zxing tries/tests for an ideal case first, then starts doing more bits and bobs
Jul 31 11:45:00 <derf> So I figured it'd be a good starting point for testing on the device, to see how slow it actually is.
Jul 31 11:45:02 <lcuk> yes, modular choice - you can see how different algos perform
Jul 31 11:45:10 <lardman> derf: yep
Jul 31 11:45:25 <lcuk> wd40();
Jul 31 11:45:41 * lcuk is doing that for multitouch
Jul 31 11:46:08 <lardman> median threshold, rolling average (a la current 1D code) and histogram binning should all be available for each method
Jul 31 11:46:15 <lardman> sharpen filter?
Jul 31 11:46:56 <lcuk> cant we just use gstreamer prebuilt filters for this - since the data is coming through gstreamer...
Jul 31 11:47:07 <lardman> possibly
Jul 31 11:47:10 <lardman> do they exist?
Jul 31 11:47:14 <lcuk> just add another filter layer
Jul 31 11:47:19 <lcuk> well you use one now
Jul 31 11:47:30 <rm_you> lardman: dunno, a lot of those comments were VERY outdated, lol
Jul 31 11:47:43 <rm_you> ick, i think there were much better logos as well <_< ah well
Jul 31 11:48:05 <lcuk> can some1 give me link to barcode project svn
Jul 31 11:48:09 <lcuk> please
Jul 31 11:48:28 * lcuk thought it was on desktop but its gone
Jul 31 11:48:31 <rm_you> https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemo-barcode/
Jul 31 11:48:44 <lcuk> ta :)
Jul 31 11:48:45 <rm_you> that is generated from my brain via my fingers :P so hopefully it is right
Jul 31 11:51:05 <bilboed-pi> Khertan, booked at the ibis berlin mitte
Jul 31 11:52:59 <lardman> lcuk: it would be nicer to be able to switch filter at will, unless the GStreamer ones are especially special
Jul 31 11:54:01 <rm_you> ack it got late again before i noticed <_<
Jul 31 11:54:03 * rm_you sleeps
Jul 31 11:54:23 <Khertan> bilboed-pi > a bit too expensive for me :)
Jul 31 11:55:02 <Khertan> at least with the flight :)
Jul 31 11:55:14 <bilboed-pi> Khertan, if you find somebody else, it comes at around 40 EUR per person per night
Jul 31 11:55:21 <Khertan> so i ll be the only one from the summit in the hostel
Jul 31 11:55:57 <Khertan> this is what i ll paid 49 Euros by night
Jul 31 11:56:32 <qwerty12_N800> Ooh, ITT upgrades
Jul 31 11:56:38 <Khertan> ?
Jul 31 11:57:05 <Khertan> ah the forum softwares
Jul 31 11:57:06 <Khertan> ;)
Jul 31 11:59:22 <Khertan> hum ... mappy.com seems down
Jul 31 12:00:56 <crashanddie> seems like it
Jul 31 12:01:42 <derf> lardman|lunch: Okay, I just checked in some code.
Jul 31 12:02:19 <lcuk> lardman, you should be able to specify an arbitary chain of filters with gstreamer. theres a massive list of plugins but im not sure specifically.  just an idea anyways  http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/documentation/plugins.html
Jul 31 12:02:49 <lcuk> crashanddie, you have done a bit on gstreamer plugins - have you seen any image processing filters?
Jul 31 12:03:53 <Khertan> lcuk > hum ... do you think it ll be possible to make a lib so, which take an image in parameters and get the resulting upc code ?
Jul 31 12:04:22 <Khertan> does the upc database is use to accurate the reading process ?
Jul 31 12:04:38 <Khertan> or just to see something usefull ?
Jul 31 12:04:56 <lcuk> khertan, thats basically what the function does now:  given a bitmap it returns upc.  all im suggesting is to use the existing gstreamer plugins thing to do the filtering and allow different combinations of filters
Jul 31 12:05:26 <Khertan> lcuk > how do you pass that bitmap ?
Jul 31 12:05:36 <Khertan> (i ven't read all the code yet)
Jul 31 12:05:37 <lcuk> i dont, its just in memory though
Jul 31 12:05:44 <Khertan> hum ...
Jul 31 12:05:52 <dannym> zap: are you there?
Jul 31 12:06:01 <lcuk> it arrives in memory by parsing the imagedata at the end of a gstreamer chain
Jul 31 12:06:19 <Khertan> i ask this because i thinking of how to do the thing with python binding and make a python gui
Jul 31 12:06:38 * Khertan don't like use gstreamer in python
Jul 31 12:07:06 <lcuk> i found it most acceptable tbh, but having a UPC gstreamer filter would make it childsplay
Jul 31 12:07:25 <lcuk> camera->yuv->upc
Jul 31 12:07:37 <lcuk> hmmm..
Jul 31 12:07:40 <Khertan> hum ...
Jul 31 12:08:04 <lcuk> actually have gstreamer itself expose the upc code as a proper gstreamer plugin
Jul 31 12:08:12 <lcuk> its then available from all languages and uses
Jul 31 12:08:26 <lcuk> takes in data in yuv format
Jul 31 12:16:18 <zap> dannym: yep
Jul 31 12:16:23 <zap> (partly :)
Jul 31 12:21:31 <Khertan> i like the new button on maemo downloads comment : "report abuse"
Jul 31 12:32:17 <dannym> zap: hehe, me too :)
Jul 31 12:33:39 <dannym> zap: I'm submitting a bug report to Info-ZIP about the UTF-8 thingie... <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2033790&group_id=118012&atid=679786>
Jul 31 12:34:29 <dannym> zap: they have some code like that in their source file already (commented out), let's see what their reasoning for not use it :)
Jul 31 12:34:32 <dannym> not using*
Jul 31 12:35:14 <dannym> zap: (our side's bug report is <https://garage.maemo.org/pm/task.php?group_id=91&group_project_id=154>)
Jul 31 12:40:02 * zap is looking
Jul 31 12:41:37 <zap> dannym: indeed, nl_langinfo is the easiest thing to do, and ncurses has the same bug
Jul 31 12:45:29 <dannym> zap: is it reported?
Jul 31 12:54:20 <macoute> have any1 tried opensync with a nokia phone succesfully?
Jul 31 12:54:32 <macoute> with a s60 3rd edition phone to be exact
Jul 31 12:55:53 <zap> dannym: nope, I fixed it in my mc port though
Jul 31 12:56:29 <zap> but it's not fixed in the standard libslang package, which causes most slang apps to display garbage
Jul 31 12:56:45 <solmumaha> macoute: mistä päin savoo?
Jul 31 13:01:19 <andre___> why can't i find any other complaints about AppManager using the error sound when successfully installing a package?
Jul 31 13:01:21 <andre___> mankind, give me a second confirmation of https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3439 ! :)
Jul 31 13:12:01 <macoute> solmumaha: mikkelistä/from st. michel :)
Jul 31 13:15:49 <dannym> zap: I see... yay workarounds :)
Jul 31 13:17:03 <dannym> zap: who uses libslang? (I'm really curious, I was of the impression that they either are old apps using ncurses or newer ones using GUI toolkits :))
Jul 31 13:18:21 <crashanddie> Heading out, talk to you guys when I'm in London !
Jul 31 13:18:30 <solmumaha> macoute: k, same here
Jul 31 13:18:49 <Blafasel> Probably a stupid question, but what package (and from where) provides a c compiler? vala depends on one (obviously), but I see no package in extra (chinook, diablo) and extra-devel (diablo).
Jul 31 13:18:49 <Dekaritae> http://gadgets.boingboing.net/glasspad.jpg
Jul 31 13:19:14 <macoute> solmumaha: oh, i checked your /wii and noticed the same :)
Jul 31 13:19:20 <dannym> crashanddie: bye :)
Jul 31 13:19:35 <macoute> solmumaha: are you a native mikkeliläinen? :)
Jul 31 13:19:44 <macoute> solmumaha: im now living in helsinki, but originally from mikkeli
Jul 31 13:20:00 <dannym> Blafasel: hmm... use the SDK repository. Do you mean in Scratchbox or on the device?
Jul 31 13:21:10 <Blafasel> Device
Jul 31 13:22:08 <solmumaha> macoute: yes, who would move here? :)
Jul 31 13:22:43 <macoute> solmumaha: thats true :)
Jul 31 13:23:04 <smyows> openvpn don't work on maemo
Jul 31 13:23:11 <smyows> ¬¬
Jul 31 13:24:00 <macoute> smyows: in diablo?
Jul 31 13:24:10 <smyows> yes
Jul 31 13:24:10 <macoute> i have had it working, so it does work on maemo
Jul 31 13:24:17 <macoute> on diablo i havent tested
Jul 31 13:24:45 <smyows> i have installed liblzo2-2 but nothing
Jul 31 13:25:11 <smyows> openvpn have another depends?
Jul 31 13:25:55 <macoute> lzo shouldnt be a depedency for openvpn
Jul 31 13:25:59 <macoute> if you are not using compression
Jul 31 13:26:20 <macoute> or am i totally wrong?
Jul 31 13:26:32 <macoute> or has the packager made a mistake? :P
Jul 31 13:26:40 <smyows> i don't know
Jul 31 13:27:01 <dannym> macoute: dunno... but well, what's it supposed to do? Ask whether you want to install lzo when you first use a compressed connection? :D
Jul 31 13:27:13 <zap> dannym: actually most console programs with kind-of-GUI use libslang
Jul 31 13:27:29 <zap> iptraf for example
Jul 31 13:27:29 <smyows> wathever i have lzo on maemo, but openvpn don't work
Jul 31 13:27:55 <dannym> zap: I see... good to know :)
Jul 31 13:29:06 <zap> Anybody got YouAmp working on their tablet?
Jul 31 13:29:28 <zap> It shows just a empty window to me
Jul 31 13:29:53 <mikkov_> smyows: from  where did install openvpn? it should work
Jul 31 13:30:27 <qwerty12_N800> zap: it's a python app afaik. try running something like youamp -v [vv] etc
Jul 31 13:31:03 <lardman> derf: thanks I've pulled that
Jul 31 13:31:05 <smyows> maemo repository
Jul 31 13:31:16 <lardman> derf: what method did the original code use out of interest?
Jul 31 13:31:31 <smyows> and put my key and config on /etc/openvpn
Jul 31 13:31:31 <lardman> rm_you: did you see my comment about image->width/height?
Jul 31 13:31:42 <derf> lardman: They split the image up into 16 blocks, computed the average gray level in each block, and thresholded.
Jul 31 13:31:50 <lardman> ah ok
Jul 31 13:31:57 <lardman> does that work?
Jul 31 13:32:04 <mikkov_> smyows: do you have some error message?
Jul 31 13:32:07 <derf> I guess it worked for them :)
Jul 31 13:32:12 <lardman> :)
Jul 31 13:32:21 <mikkov_> smyows: you must use verb 0
Jul 31 13:32:26 <lardman> was it simply a median calculation, or some histogram binning?
Jul 31 13:32:46 <mikkov_> smyows: it crashes if you have verb 4 or more
Jul 31 13:33:10 <derf> Not even median, mean.
Jul 31 13:33:26 <smyows> only display FAIL if i use initd script to start
Jul 31 13:33:38 <derf> Err, sorry, actually looking at the code, even worse.
Jul 31 13:33:46 <derf> They used (max-min)/2 as the threshold.
Jul 31 13:34:06 <derf> Err, (max+min)/2, of course.
Jul 31 13:34:15 <smyows> if i run openvpn --config /etc/openvpn/config.conf  not display nothing
Jul 31 13:38:44 <mikkov_> smyows: do you have this version 2.0.9-4etch1
Jul 31 13:38:58 <smyows> one moment
Jul 31 13:40:43 <smyows> my openvpn is 2.0.9-4etch1
Jul 31 13:43:27 <mikkov_> run this: openvpn --genkey --secret test && openvpn --test-crypto --secret test
Jul 31 14:01:35 <brontide> x11vnc + personal menu = FAIL
Jul 31 14:01:55 <qwerty12_N800> can't click it?
Jul 31 14:02:12 <zfigz> What's the best format for movies if you're going to play it via mplayer on the n810?
Jul 31 14:02:24 <brontide> vnc works perfectly until I activate the menu and then the menu stays there and vnc gets "stuck" and stops refreshing the screen
Jul 31 14:02:24 <zfigz> Because I'm trying a movie out and it's terribly sluggish
Jul 31 14:02:51 <brontide> I'm using vnc in "view only" mode to mirror the screen
Jul 31 14:03:15 <nemo> zfigz: just as a WAG, it'd be same as any generic processor without HW video decoding (like the iphone uses)
Jul 31 14:03:18 <brontide> hoping to use it at the Summit and also to record "screen sharing" sessions for training
Jul 31 14:03:37 <nemo> zfigz: which means, find a format that requires less decoding, and maybe you need videos with less bits per frame
Jul 31 14:03:52 <nemo> zfigz: seems that's sorta thing you could ask in the mplayer channel.  but then, I'm new here
Jul 31 14:04:07 <zfigz> nemo, oh, I didn't know there was a mplayer channel
Jul 31 14:04:25 <nemo> And speaking of being new here - 128MiB of memory... that is, as it turns out, more than my laptop which has only 96MiB - however, I'll always take more.
Jul 31 14:04:30 <nemo> is there a model with 256MiB?
Jul 31 14:04:34 <nemo> seems like an easy target nowdays
Jul 31 14:05:06 <qwerty12_N800> nemo: nah, the lcd controller on the n8x0's suck so heavy videos don't play right with mplayer
Jul 31 14:08:25 <hrw> hmm.. how to make osso-mahjong run..
Jul 31 14:09:24 <zap> hrw: from scratchbox?
Jul 31 14:10:36 <hrw> in non-maemo env
Jul 31 14:10:48 <hrw> all those maemo-launcher/invoker crap..
Jul 31 14:10:49 <zap> does it use libosso?
Jul 31 14:11:27 <hrw> zap: it links to it
Jul 31 14:11:41 <qwerty12_N800> hrw: without the startup screen?
Jul 31 14:11:55 <zap> hrw: maemo-launcher can be stripped without much hassle
Jul 31 14:12:07 <zap> just that the app will start slower
Jul 31 14:14:22 <smyows> mmm
Jul 31 14:14:43 <smyows> my openvpn have problem with crypto
Jul 31 14:15:08 <smyows> mikkov ?
Jul 31 14:18:39 <nemo> qwerty12_N800: ok. so it is simply an LCD refresh rate thing?
Jul 31 14:18:47 <mikkov_> smyows: ey
Jul 31 14:18:52 <hrw> ~curse maemo for lack of tools like strace
Jul 31 14:18:57 <hrw> less, wget etc
Jul 31 14:18:59 <nemo> qwerty12_N800: no matter how small the video, the N8x0 will always be slower than the usual video frame rate?
Jul 31 14:19:18 <nemo> qwerty12_N800: I don't suppose you know about the memory thing? :)
Jul 31 14:19:46 <smyows> mikkov_, my openvpn do not run the second command
Jul 31 14:19:52 <smyows>  openvpn --test-crypto --secret test
Jul 31 14:19:54 <zap> dannym: how do you think, does it make sense to throw GNU tar into the zip/unzip project? :)
Jul 31 14:20:02 <mikkov_> smyows: did you get "Assertion failed at integer.h:94"
Jul 31 14:20:57 <smyows> ya
Jul 31 14:20:58 <nemo> zfigz: BTW. didja catch qwerty12_N800's explanation?
Jul 31 14:21:06 <smyows> let me put on pastebin[
Jul 31 14:21:09 <mikkov_> smyows: that's normal :)
Jul 31 14:21:28 <smyows> oO
Jul 31 14:21:29 <hrw> or even lldd
Jul 31 14:21:31 <smyows> rsrrs
Jul 31 14:21:49 <mikkov_> smyows: does your config work in normal linux?
Jul 31 14:22:02 <smyows> www.pastebin.ca/108884563
Jul 31 14:22:20 <zap> Ughm.... Advanced Backlight Control is Nokia-provided software???
Jul 31 14:22:26 <zfigz> nemo, was this it?
Jul 31 14:22:28 <zfigz> nah, the lcd controller on the n8x0's suck so heavy videos don't play right with mplayer
Jul 31 14:22:45 <zfigz> So large video files don't work or ?
Jul 31 14:22:54 <mikkov_> smyows: i got invalid id from the link
Jul 31 14:23:02 <smyows> oops
Jul 31 14:23:19 <smyows> www.pastebin.ca/10884563
Jul 31 14:23:26 <zap> zfigz: N8xx will play video at a larger resolution than most PDAs I've ever seen
Jul 31 14:23:44 <zfigz> zap, what's a good format to convert it to?
Jul 31 14:23:47 <zap> zfigz: it at least has hardware support for YUV and scaling
Jul 31 14:23:48 <zfigz> it's mp4 right now
Jul 31 14:23:52 <zap> zfigz: yes
Jul 31 14:24:15 <zap> zfigz: what OS are you using?
Jul 31 14:24:22 <mikkov_> smyows: still doesn't work
Jul 31 14:24:28 <smyows> a moment
Jul 31 14:24:48 <smyows> www.pastebin.ca/1088453
Jul 31 14:25:37 <smyows> small display and blind man isn't cool xD
Jul 31 14:25:56 <zfigz> zap: Diablo and 2008
Jul 31 14:26:05 <mikkov_> smyows: yes, i get the same results with my openvpn. that should be ok
Jul 31 14:26:09 <zap> zfigz: I mean on PC
Jul 31 14:26:14 <zfigz> zap: 0s x
Jul 31 14:26:26 <zap> zfigz: there are progs for converting video to a tablet-supported format
Jul 31 14:26:33 <mikkov_> smyows: i suspect that your config might be somehow borked
Jul 31 14:26:34 <zfigz> I'm using iSquint now
Jul 31 14:26:51 <zfigz> zap, what's a tablet-support format though?
Jul 31 14:26:56 <zap> there are lots of them ,they were listed in internettablettalk Wiki, but its down now
Jul 31 14:27:09 <smyows> my config works on slackware machine
Jul 31 14:27:11 <smyows> is the same
Jul 31 14:27:12 <zap> zfigz: you want the exact details? I can look up
Jul 31 14:27:21 <smyows> i'll paste on pastebin
Jul 31 14:27:24 <smyows> one moment
Jul 31 14:28:22 <zap> zfigz: okay here's what my experience shows: mplayer can smoothly play any videos up to 512x304 resolution, GStreamer engine can play only up to 400x240
Jul 31 14:28:55 <zap> zfigz: also for GStreamer engine I would disable B-frames
Jul 31 14:29:09 <zap> that's about all about limits
Jul 31 14:29:24 <Blafasel> Jaffa: Are you running valac on the device as well?
Jul 31 14:29:38 <smyows> mikkov_, www.pastebin.ca/1088461
Jul 31 14:29:38 <zap> zfigz: I'd recommend the XviD encoder as it's about ten times faster than lavc
Jul 31 14:30:01 <zfigz> Ok, we'll see here
Jul 31 14:30:12 <zfigz> zap, I'm not entirely sure what I'm converting it to
Jul 31 14:30:21 <zfigz> my gawd
Jul 31 14:30:28 <zfigz> it's gonna take 700 min for it to convert
Jul 31 14:30:30 <zfigz> bah
Jul 31 14:31:31 <nemo> zfigz: qwerty12_N800 appears to be stating the LCD rate is just too slow for normal video
Jul 31 14:31:36 <nemo> zfigz: which is interesting to me
Jul 31 14:31:58 <smyows> mikkov_, my config is okay?
Jul 31 14:31:59 <nemo> zfigz: but seems surely normal things like frame size and decoding cost *must* play *some* part
Jul 31 14:32:18 <zap> zfigz: the software you're using is crap
Jul 31 14:32:21 <nemo> sooo. 256MiB - is there a nokia tablet with a bit more than 128?
Jul 31 14:32:27 <zfigz> nemo, yeah...I don't know. I just know this movie was playing terribly last night and now I'm at work and I'd like to watch it incognito
Jul 31 14:32:38 <zap> zfigz: it takes 20-30 minutes for me, for a single AVI (and I can convert two at a time, using two cores)
Jul 31 14:33:23 <mikkov_> smyows: i get nothig with you config too... IÃ'll test a bit more..
Jul 31 14:33:52 <smyows> if i run ifconfig tun0 up the interface is going up?
Jul 31 14:34:56 <zap> no, its going to the left usually
Jul 31 14:34:57 <smyows> to start vpn is only run openvpn --config /etc/openvpn/myconfig.conf
Jul 31 14:35:34 <smyows> what is wrong on my vpn :/
Jul 31 14:37:19 <Blafasel> Hmm.. The only thing regarding gcc on the device is this: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-6737.html - Can anyone with more experience than me tell me if this would break major things?
Jul 31 14:37:35 <mikkov_> smyows: comment that daemon line and then you shouls see the error message. verb 3 should be ok
Jul 31 14:38:57 <zfigz> zap, yeah...1000 min to convert
Jul 31 14:39:16 <nemo> oh. it appears the N810 is upgradeable to 256MiB - from googling
Jul 31 14:39:20 <nemo> no thanks to channel :D
Jul 31 14:39:28 <zfigz> nemo, oh yeah?
Jul 31 14:39:52 <nemo> oh. n/m
Jul 31 14:39:56 <nemo> that's just a random internet commenter
Jul 31 14:39:57 <nemo> blah
Jul 31 14:40:17 * nemo sighs.  I gues 128MB isn't a huge deal. 
Jul 31 14:40:22 <nemo> So long as it isn't using Gnome :)
Jul 31 14:40:35 <lardman> derf: very high-tech then :)
Jul 31 14:40:37 <Blafasel> Khertan: In that thread you claim to have installed gcc on the device as well. Would you share how?
Jul 31 14:40:42 <lardman> derf: but also very quick if it works
Jul 31 14:40:47 <mikkov_> smyows: ah yes there is no group nobody change that to nogroup
Jul 31 14:40:59 <nemo> Blafasel: why would you put  your compiler *on* the mobile device?
Jul 31 14:41:14 <nemo> Blafasel: wouldn't it make more sense to do cross compiling on a desktop?
Jul 31 14:41:16 <Blafasel> nemo: Well, to compile *on* the device ;)
Jul 31 14:41:21 <nemo> Blafasel: why?
Jul 31 14:41:27 <nemo> what'd be the point?
Jul 31 14:41:34 <Blafasel> nemo: For big things? Yes. For compiling on the go, small tests? No ;)
Jul 31 14:41:36 <nemo> ok. silly question.
Jul 31 14:41:43 <nemo> I do lots of things with no points
Jul 31 14:41:47 <Blafasel> ;)
Jul 31 14:41:51 <nemo> small tests, I do ssh'd into home computer :-p
Jul 31 14:42:06 <nemo> $ cstdin
Jul 31 14:42:06 <nemo> printf("hello world");
Jul 31 14:42:06 <nemo> hello world
Jul 31 14:42:08 <nemo> :)
Jul 31 14:42:33 <Blafasel> Nope. But I think lcuk uses C on the device as well...
Jul 31 14:42:34 <lardman> derf: is that the technique from zxing or from the Japanese QRCode decoder?
Jul 31 14:42:49 <dannym> Blafasel: should work, but didn't try :)
Jul 31 14:43:05 <smyows> mikkov_, works :D
Jul 31 14:43:12 <smyows> mikkov_, thanks a lot!
Jul 31 14:43:29 <dannym> Blafasel: though I don't get what "libc6_2.3.5cs2005q3.2-5.osso12_armel.deb" is for... is that supposed to be .."_dev" ?
Jul 31 14:43:32 <mikkov_> no problem ;)
Jul 31 14:45:00 <dannym> Blafasel: robmiller's post on the forum looks disheartening though :)
Jul 31 14:45:59 <zap> zfigz: install linux and try my prog ;-\
Jul 31 14:48:40 <zfigz> zap, I'm getting something better now
Jul 31 14:49:58 <lcuk> Blafasel, installing gcc on the device is just like installing anything, its just another app.  it doesnt break things.  you get it from the same repo that scratchbox uses (i cant remember which off hand).  and you get the -dev libraries from the same place
Jul 31 14:51:36 <Blafasel> lcuk: Thanks a lot
Jul 31 14:51:36 * lcuk runs away again
Jul 31 14:54:12 <nemo> lcuk: what do you use it for though? :)
Jul 31 14:54:30 <nemo> then again, I think some maniacs have put it on the iphone.
Jul 31 14:54:32 <chelli> mikkov_: are you there? i just saw that you uploaded openvpn-applet to diablo-extras-devel, package is uninstallable because openvpn is not included in diablo-extras(-devel) yet, do you plan to upload it, ok should someone else take care (i would have a backport from Debian Etch almoast ready)
Jul 31 14:55:46 <Blafasel> I'm at a customer here (yawn) and no access to my desktop. If anyone out there has access to a scratchbox environment and could issue a package search for gcc (dpkg -S /path/to/file afaik) and an apt-cache policy packagename (should show the repository) that would be awesome.. I'm lost on the scratchbox howto sites..
Jul 31 14:57:28 <nomis> Blafasel: uh, it is a bit wierdly linked around in scratchbox
Jul 31 14:57:52 <derf> lardman: From the Japanese one.
Jul 31 14:58:54 <nomis> Blafasel: http://repository.maemo.org diablo/sdk/free Packages
Jul 31 14:58:56 <Blafasel> nomis: Yeah, probably depending on the target, I guess.
Jul 31 14:59:06 <lardman> derf: the zxing one uses histogram binning
Jul 31 14:59:06 <Blafasel> nomis: You, sir, are my hero of the day ;)
Jul 31 14:59:27 <nomis> package "gcc-3.4"
Jul 31 14:59:33 <lardman> derf: I've not tried it, but thought I'd pull the idea out and stick it in a shared binarization.c file
Jul 31 14:59:40 * nomis bows towards the audience
Jul 31 15:04:54 <zap> Blafasel: http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/
Jul 31 15:09:04 <brontide> x11vnc not run as root = me FAIL :-P
Jul 31 15:11:37 <lcuk> nemo - search for liqbase and you will find out
Jul 31 15:12:20 <lcuk> tive posted lots of comments and notes about my usage and speed of compilation etc.  for me as a *dont shoot me* windows user, it was simpler and more logical to do on device compilation
Jul 31 15:12:59 <qwerty12> nemo, sorry about earlier. my internet got disconnected. If someone didn't already answer, the lcd controller cannot keep up with the video fast enough and writes too slowly to the screen AFAIK. It doesn't help that Nokia decided to use a Low Speed Serial connection for connecting it either...
Jul 31 15:15:55 <nemo> lcuk: heh. you're doing it basically 'cause you couldn't be bothered to setup cross-compiling? :)
Jul 31 15:16:09 <lcuk> qwerty12, nokias lcd decision sounds like your low speed internet decision
Jul 31 15:17:00 <qwerty12> lcuk, Nah, my router keeps acting funny. I get 8MB here. Not the fastest by any means but definitely not slow.
Jul 31 15:17:00 <lcuk> nemo, ive got vmware image here and have it setup and configured, it was just slower than the current approach and was more glitchy.  i never used the emulator thing and managing extra multiple machines was annoying
Jul 31 15:17:27 <lardman> delete Windows and install Ubuntu ;)
Jul 31 15:17:37 <lcuk> besides, i can go out for a coffee break and recompile whilst out :) can you?
Jul 31 15:17:51 <nemo> lcuk: you can do cross-compiling under windows
Jul 31 15:17:52 <lcuk> ubuntu wont install fully on my 810
Jul 31 15:18:02 <lardman> I can compile while doing my shoe laces :p
Jul 31 15:18:20 <qwerty12> lardman++ (on the deleting windows bit anyway) :P
Jul 31 15:18:24 <nemo> lcuk: but, I've found VirtualBox to be almost equal in speed to windows.  For file I/O it was faster
Jul 31 15:18:27 <lardman> :)
Jul 31 15:18:37 <nemo> lcuk: back when I had to run Ubuntu under virtualbox...
Jul 31 15:19:07 <nemo> lcuk: but, you know, there's always cygwin for setting up a compilation env
Jul 31 15:19:17 <lcuk> nemo, the only good thing a bigger box gives is the autotools, if i could get that on my device (i  can already solve the space issue) then i would not even consider anything other than direct native compilation
Jul 31 15:19:59 <nemo> lcuk: bigger box means more memory, more space for source, faster compiles, less wear and tear on flash
Jul 31 15:20:09 <nemo> lcuk: but. hey. do whatever you want to do. I'm sure not going to do it :)
Jul 31 15:20:13 <lcuk> compilation times for the software i build and use (in c at least) are faster than my big fast machine building ms.net apps
Jul 31 15:20:14 <nemo> I think I'd find that really frustrating.
Jul 31 15:20:22 <nemo> lcuk: lol. that's no comparison
Jul 31 15:20:28 <hub> the flasher failed with an error http://pastebin.ca/1088523
Jul 31 15:20:29 <hub> any idea?
Jul 31 15:20:31 <lcuk> why frustrating - flash drives are 10 a penny
Jul 31 15:20:35 <lcuk> if one breaks, so what
Jul 31 15:21:07 <lcuk> nemo, of course it is - i work in .shit all day and so my little box working faster is double bonus
Jul 31 15:21:12 <hub> so my device is bricked
Jul 31 15:21:14 <hub> :-(
Jul 31 15:22:16 <lcuk> nemo :) building my app on my device using standard tools works for me, ymmv is the best answer
Jul 31 15:22:46 <lardman> hub: not bricked
Jul 31 15:22:56 <hub> lardman: rebooting in a loop
Jul 31 15:22:57 <lardman> hub: not sure what that error indicates though
Jul 31 15:23:08 <hub> well I'd look at the source code of the flasher
Jul 31 15:23:10 <hub> but....
Jul 31 15:23:17 <lardman> hub: well yeah, you don't have any kernel modules for the new kernel probably
Jul 31 15:23:17 <hub> (unless I missed something)
Jul 31 15:23:30 <lardman> 0xffff
Jul 31 15:24:08 <hub> I tried with both the static and non static version of the flasher
Jul 31 15:24:24 <hub> (I'm on openSUSE 11 since that may matter for a binary only)
Jul 31 15:25:26 <nemo> lcuk: like I said, whatever works for you. certainly would not be my natural impulse
Jul 31 15:25:48 <nemo> lcuk: you might be surprised at how much more pleasant development gets when you give the compiler more memory and a better CPU though
Jul 31 15:25:56 <nemo> lcuk: especially if you're tweaking.
Jul 31 15:26:11 <nemo> clean builds every minute or two get old fast
Jul 31 15:26:15 <lardman> hub: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/oxffff/
Jul 31 15:27:24 <hub> does that one work better?
Jul 31 15:27:35 <lardman> well you have the source code for it
Jul 31 15:27:42 <lardman> so you could try and work out what's going wrong
Jul 31 15:27:56 <hub> good point
Jul 31 15:28:05 <hub> and I can actually package it for suse
Jul 31 15:30:05 <hub> ahah
Jul 31 15:30:07 <hub> TODO: Implement the fiasco flashing here.
Jul 31 15:31:46 <lardman> well you could use the Nokia flasher to extract the parts and then try flashing the rootfs
Jul 31 15:32:05 <lardman> that's the only bit you need to flash still
Jul 31 15:32:30 <hub> *sigh*
Jul 31 15:33:16 <derf> lardman: The problem with a single histogram is if the lighting changes across the image or someone's spilled some crap on part of it, no single threshold can work for the whole image.
Jul 31 15:33:32 <hrw> lcuk: Xsp.h - which package contains it?
Jul 31 15:33:39 <hub> lardman: I guess FIASCO really means what it means
Jul 31 15:33:41 <lardman> yeah, I wonder if they do it for regions; I didn't look too closely though
Jul 31 15:33:45 <hub> a real fiasco
Jul 31 15:34:13 <lardman> hub: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/flasher_tool_usage/
Jul 31 15:34:18 <derf> It looked like they did either for a single row (for barcodes) or for the whole image.
Jul 31 15:34:40 <lardman> hub: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/flasher_tool_usage/#2835bd18b76fb0352af794c2c00923e5
Jul 31 15:34:59 <lardman> derf: still room for improvement then, but it still works very well
Jul 31 15:35:24 <derf> Sure, if you don't have any serious degredation, it'll work just fine.
Jul 31 15:35:31 <derf> But then, so will almost anything.
Jul 31 15:36:01 <lardman> yeah, of course, but we don't need something that's perfect, just something that will work in most cases
Jul 31 15:36:23 <lardman> did you see the image which the online zxing could decode?
Jul 31 15:36:23 <derf> Well, perfect is impossible.
Jul 31 15:36:27 <lardman> ;)
Jul 31 15:36:40 <derf> But you can always optimize on the margin.
Jul 31 15:36:43 <derf> lardman: No.
Jul 31 15:37:29 <lardman> derf: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2008-07-31.log.html search down to "QR" and look at the image brontide tested
Jul 31 15:39:25 <brontide> I was impressed with it being able to decode that image. I'll have to try a few more "curveballs" to see what it can do
Jul 31 15:39:53 <lardman> I'd say that's "good enough" for starters anyway
Jul 31 15:40:44 <derf> Well, the resolution is pretty bad, but the contrast is good.
Jul 31 15:40:48 <hub> lardman: now I get this
Jul 31 15:40:50 <hub> Flashing initfs (/home/hub/Desktop/initfs.jffs2)
Jul 31 15:40:50 <hub> | hash: 0xcf16 size: 2286848 (00 22 e5 00)
Jul 31 15:40:50 <hub> [=] Bulkwriting the initfs piece...
Jul 31 15:40:50 <hub>   100% [#################################################################]
Jul 31 15:40:50 <hub> Oops. Invalid checksum?
Jul 31 15:40:52 <derf> And that's all you really need.
Jul 31 15:40:55 <hub> wtf
Jul 31 15:41:07 <lardman> hub: dodgy download?
Jul 31 15:41:15 <hub> lardman: md5sum match
Jul 31 15:41:22 <lardman> hub: or faulty checksum after the write?
Jul 31 15:41:24 <derf> That will look like shit after going through the Wiener filter, though.
Jul 31 15:41:33 <hub> lardman: maybe columns b
Jul 31 15:41:39 <derf> Which is why I think that part is still broken.
Jul 31 15:42:00 <lardman> derf: skip the filter for the time being, add it in as an enhancement
Jul 31 15:42:19 <hub> lardman: ok flashing the previous revision seems to work
Jul 31 15:42:33 <derf> lardman: Yeah, you just comment out one line of code in qr_binarize().
Jul 31 15:42:34 <k88> any idea where i can find : gdk-pixbuf-2.0 ?
Jul 31 15:44:58 <hub> lardman: so I guess this image is just fucked and nobody realised
Jul 31 15:45:37 <lardman> hub: no idea, which is it and where from?
Jul 31 15:45:50 <hub> lardman: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php?f=RX-34_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin
Jul 31 15:45:56 <hub> lardman: the official Nokia image
Jul 31 15:46:05 <hub> the one that is a PITA to download
Jul 31 15:46:08 <lardman> hmm, worked for me
Jul 31 15:46:30 <hub> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php?f=RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin <- this one worked
Jul 31 15:46:47 <lcuk> hrw libxsp
Jul 31 15:46:50 <derf_> lardman: Anyway, I'll add that image to my test set.
Jul 31 15:47:00 <lardman> derf_: cool
Jul 31 15:47:13 <lardman> hub: sorry, I don't know; perhaps try downloading it again?
Jul 31 15:47:43 <hub> lardman: since the md5sums match I don't see why
Jul 31 15:47:45 <hub> but anyway
Jul 31 15:47:52 <hub> I'll just content myself of this one
Jul 31 15:47:58 <hub> it is still better than last time
Jul 31 15:48:05 <hub> I don't really have time to hack
Jul 31 15:48:14 <hub> thanks for the help
Jul 31 15:48:18 <lardman> np
Jul 31 15:48:24 <lardman> sorry I couldn't do more
Jul 31 15:49:07 <hub> lardman: yeah well, that's how it works with proprietary crap.
Jul 31 15:49:13 <hub> I'll mention it
Jul 31 15:50:36 <qwerty12> RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin - Is that the chinook imag?
Jul 31 15:50:38 <qwerty12> *image
Jul 31 15:51:11 <lcuk> hrw - actually, its the -dev variation
Jul 31 15:51:21 <hub> qwerty12: IT OS 2008
Jul 31 15:51:51 <qwerty12> hub, Doesn't tell me much. I can't be arsed to dig out my N800's mac just to open the tablets-dev page.
Jul 31 15:52:28 <eichi> i miss the "lock applet" option on the maemo desktop, to often i move the applets wheater i dont want to do that
Jul 31 15:52:36 <eichi> why is it kicked?
Jul 31 15:53:00 <Khertan> bye :)
Jul 31 15:54:12 <qwerty12> 00194F9EDD2D - Sigh. Magic mac address.
Jul 31 15:56:07 <qwerty12> anyway, hub, the location and size of initfs was changed in diablo. It doesn't seem to be flashing right for you. What I would do is to flash it with RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and then flash the bootloaders (secondary, xloader, config etc) with the --flash-only option and then reboot and try flashing again.
Jul 31 15:56:13 <hub> qwerty12: how do you want me to know if it is chinook or not
Jul 31 15:56:21 <hub> qwerty12: it is like the stupid mac naming
Jul 31 15:56:33 <qwerty12> hub, it doesn't matter, I'm in the page, it is chinook :)
Jul 31 15:56:45 <hub> what's the difference in the end?
Jul 31 15:56:53 <qwerty12> s/anyway, hub, the location and size of initfs was changed in diablo. It doesn't seem to be flashing right for you. What I would do is to flash it with RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and then flash the bootloaders (secondary, xloader, config etc) with the --flash-only option and then reboot and try flashing again./anyway, hub, the location and size of initfs was changed in diablo. It doesn't seem to be flashing right for you.
Jul 31 15:56:53 <qwerty12>  What I would do is to flash it with RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and then flash the bootloaders (secondary, xloader, config etc) with the --flash-only option using RX-34_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and then reboot and try flashing again./
Jul 31 15:57:05 <hub> yeah I read that
Jul 31 15:57:12 <qwerty12> I was correcting a mistake.
Jul 31 15:57:17 <hub> ah
Jul 31 15:57:46 <hub> "chinook" is installed
Jul 31 15:57:47 <hub> so
Jul 31 15:57:48 <qwerty12> Usually infobot jumps in but I think that was a little to big for X-Chat to handle :/
Jul 31 15:58:14 <hub> it is just idiotic that it does not work
Jul 31 15:58:14 <JZA> hi I just upgrade to diablo but I can't find Opera
Jul 31 15:59:20 <qwerty12> JZA, Opera was removed from chinook even.
Jul 31 15:59:48 <JZA> qwerty12: wow, that sucks, I am a hardcore opera fan
Jul 31 16:00:03 <JZA> I also don't see it on the Opera site to get a download from it.
Jul 31 16:00:08 <hub> for once Nokia free some stuff and there are people that don't like it
Jul 31 16:00:09 <hub> *grin*
Jul 31 16:01:22 <JZA> hub: opera rocks
Jul 31 16:11:34 <Khertan_n810> Hi again ...
Jul 31 16:12:08 <Khertan_n810> is there someone interested by helping me to make a better gui to mCalendar ?
Jul 31 16:15:27 <lcuk> Khertan_n810, try starting simple - suggest a brainstorm about best calendar apps (with preview pics and explainations) and see what comes of it
Jul 31 16:15:50 <lcuk> we love coloring competitions but hate real work ;)
Jul 31 16:15:57 <JZA> Khertan_n810: i am pretty lost on the clendar side since I am new to diablo I dunno which calendar is better for what
Jul 31 16:15:57 <Khertan_n810> lol
Jul 31 16:15:58 <hrw> lcuk: would you accept some patches to liqbase to un-maemo it?
Jul 31 16:16:29 <lcuk> heh hrw :) which devices have you been tweaking with?
Jul 31 16:16:41 <hrw> lcuk: now I just try to build it
Jul 31 16:16:46 <lcuk> but now isnt really best time to talk - i will certainly accept patches
Jul 31 16:16:48 <Khertan_n810> lcuk > hum i know what could be good ... but needs some help with gtk
Jul 31 16:16:49 <hrw> without Xsp crap etc
Jul 31 16:16:57 <lcuk> can we talk later on
Jul 31 16:17:19 <hrw> sure
Jul 31 16:17:24 <lcuk> hrw, xsp isnt crap but i know its not available on most platforms
Jul 31 16:17:45 <hrw> xsp is maemoism
Jul 31 16:18:13 <lcuk> ill be back from work later and run over with you
Jul 31 16:18:28 <lcuk> say 8pm (~3hours from now)
Jul 31 16:18:36 <lcuk> or is that too late?
Jul 31 16:19:09 <hrw> lcuk: tomorrow will be better
Jul 31 16:19:34 <lcuk> ok - ill try to get back asap (i have to go shopping) if i see you this evening great, if not tomorrow
Jul 31 16:19:46 * Khertan_n810 think the first priority for maemo.org is to have better server .... !!!!
Jul 31 16:19:52 <qwerty12> ^
Jul 31 16:20:06 * lbt thinks we need a new logo
Jul 31 16:20:15 <Khertan_n810> lol
Jul 31 16:20:18 <qwerty12> Having a shit server won't convince anyone that maemo is great.
Jul 31 16:20:24 <lbt> a logo will
Jul 31 16:20:25 <Khertan_n810> u don t like the new one ?
Jul 31 16:20:49 <zap> whatz the new one?
Jul 31 16:20:59 <qwerty12> http://www.internettablettalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/maemo_org_new_logo.jpg
Jul 31 16:21:13 <lcuk> how about a shit logo on a great server?
Jul 31 16:21:26 <Khertan_n810> i prefer ...
Jul 31 16:21:39 <qwerty12> lcuk, That wouldn't piss me off :P. A shit server gets me frustrated though :/
Jul 31 16:21:42 <zap> remembers me the Fedora logo :)
Jul 31 16:21:48 <lbt> no, link to this one : http://wiki.maemo.org/images/4/48/Maemo.org_logo_contest_glaoliver_1.png
Jul 31 16:21:53 <Khertan_n810> but at this time there is no great logo and a really poor server
Jul 31 16:21:59 <lbt> it will be updated in place as it is tweaked
Jul 31 16:22:05 <qwerty12> lbt, true. I was just on the itt page at the time :D
Jul 31 16:22:11 <lbt> 'k
Jul 31 16:22:36 <lbt> lcuk : that was the fastest logo submitted
Jul 31 16:22:41 <qwerty12> Ah well, a logo isn't going do anything for me. Improvements to the platform a new server will :)
Jul 31 16:22:47 <qwerty12> *and a
Jul 31 16:22:49 <lbt> go faster stripes principle
Jul 31 16:23:58 <qwerty12> Wow, I wonder what the changes in bluez 4 will mean for maemo.
Jul 31 16:24:23 <lbt> Khertan_n810: do some research on calendar apps and start a wiki page on the pros and cons
Jul 31 16:24:25 * qwerty12 needs a changelog before trying to build the latest bluez from maemo stage again
Jul 31 16:24:26 <Khertan_n810> rah !!!!! why i can t choose os version when create a maemo product
Jul 31 16:24:28 <Khertan_n810> !!!!
Jul 31 16:24:34 <Khertan_n810> pffffff !!!!!
Jul 31 16:24:43 <Khertan_n810> borring with this !
Jul 31 16:24:55 <zap> what hardware is behind maemo.org?
Jul 31 16:24:57 <Khertan_n810> i ll no make it listed on maemo.org !
Jul 31 16:25:05 <lbt> zap:  a 770 I think
Jul 31 16:25:06 <jott> zap: nokia 770
Jul 31 16:25:09 <zap> hahahah
Jul 31 16:25:15 <qwerty12> zap, 770 connected to 33.3 K modem
Jul 31 16:25:22 <jott> (we are all pretty sure of this)
Jul 31 16:25:23 <Khertan_n810> zap> surely apache on a 770
Jul 31 16:25:28 <lbt> running XP under vmware
Jul 31 16:25:41 <Khertan_n810> with an connection by bluetooth to an edge phone
Jul 31 16:25:43 * zap remembers the times when handhelds.org had a compile farm built on a cluster of iPAQs
Jul 31 16:26:04 <qwerty12> Probably ran faster than the maemo.org server does now.
Jul 31 16:26:34 <brontide> don't insult the ipaq's
Jul 31 16:26:44 <brontide> :-P
Jul 31 16:26:55 <qwerty12> Why, will you throw one at my head? :P
Jul 31 16:27:08 <brontide> No, I need maemo.org to work
Jul 31 16:27:33 <qwerty12> Brb, scratchbox's adduser wants me to ctrl-alt-bksp
Jul 31 16:28:39 <faheem_> And it seems by doing that, xchat didn't remember my settings :rolleyes:. My fault.
Jul 31 16:29:01 <nemo> Cheapest N810 I could find was $345 - good price?
Jul 31 16:29:17 <Khertan_n810> yes
Jul 31 16:29:40 <Khertan_n810> in france this is around 400 Euros
Jul 31 16:29:55 <Khertan_n810> but we can buy in us
Jul 31 16:29:59 <nemo> Khertan_n810: vous etes français?
Jul 31 16:30:09 <Khertan_n810> moi oui :)
Jul 31 16:30:29 <nemo> cool.
Jul 31 16:30:34 <Khertan_n810> :)
Jul 31 16:30:56 <nemo> c'est permit de parlez en français ici?
Jul 31 16:31:04 <nemo> parler
Jul 31 16:31:16 <Khertan_n810> bah c est pas sympas pour les autres
Jul 31 16:31:24 <nemo> J'ai pas souvent la chance d'y pratiquer maintenant.
Jul 31 16:31:28 <nemo> ah.
Jul 31 16:32:32 <Khertan_n810> :)
Jul 31 16:32:54 <Khertan_n810> connection will drop
Jul 31 16:33:01 <Khertan_n810> entering subways
Jul 31 16:33:08 <Khertan_n810> (tube)
Jul 31 16:33:12 <Khertan_n810> bye
Jul 31 16:33:45 * lbt cuts Khertan_n810's wires in the real world...
Jul 31 16:35:32 <zap> Anybody knows why BlueTooth device are so power-hungry, unlike 2.4GHz radio keyboards/mices ?
Jul 31 16:36:28 * qwerty12 cant decide to mount Os2007 rootfs or not...
Jul 31 16:48:42 <hrw> qwerty12: what for?
Jul 31 16:49:57 <qwerty12> hrw, I want to get out some newer opera libs from the last Os2007 image so I can repack that port of the opera browser for OS2008 and someone on itt was asking for the keyboard theme from the Os2007 to be put on Os2008 :/
Jul 31 16:51:16 <hrw> qwerty12: I wonder will opera eal works with os2008 eal
Jul 31 16:51:21 <hrw> gtk changes etc...
Jul 31 16:51:29 <hrw> but worth try
Jul 31 16:52:21 <qwerty12> "* Theme is not working (needs a separate sapwood-server for that, if someone can tell me how to run a second sapwood-server - i'm all ears)..."
Jul 31 16:52:45 <hrw> os2007 had black keyboard and os2008 has white - right?
Jul 31 16:53:30 <qwerty12> By default yes. But felicia in os2008 has black keyboard but it's quite different to the Os2007 one.
Jul 31 16:53:59 <hrw> so it is a matter of tweaking theme
Jul 31 16:54:17 <hrw> I do not use IM keyboard in os2008 - hardware one works fine
Jul 31 16:54:36 <qwerty12> Yeah, I'm no gfx expert so I'll steal nokia's stuff.
Jul 31 16:54:40 * qwerty12 only has a N800
Jul 31 16:55:18 <hrw> I skipped n800
Jul 31 16:56:03 <hrw> or rather n800 skipped me as I got 770 with words like "sorry, we've got out of n800"
Jul 31 16:56:46 <nemo> Oh. Hey. Another thing before I smack the order button on this N810
Jul 31 16:56:53 <nemo> I heard stuff about an N820 ?
Jul 31 16:56:57 <hrw> nemo: no
Jul 31 16:57:13 <hrw> nemo: there is n810 wimax edition but not available in the stores at all
Jul 31 16:57:21 <nemo> meh. screw wimax.
Jul 31 16:57:26 <hrw> nemo: only some demo units exists
Jul 31 16:57:29 <qwerty12> hrw, Heh. I like the N810's keyboard but the gps and the stuff they took out made it lose its appeal to me :)
Jul 31 16:57:38 <hrw> qwerty12: agreed
Jul 31 16:57:47 <nemo> What'd they take out?
Jul 31 16:57:58 <hrw> qwerty12: but after zaurus I cannot use devices without keyboard
Jul 31 16:58:23 <hrw> nemo: n800 has 2 SD slots. n810 has 1 miniSD slot + 2GB internal storage (visible as sd card)
Jul 31 16:58:46 <qwerty12> hrw, Heh. I know, I thought I would be able to use the N800 fine after using a keyboardless pocket pc but my aching wrists disagree.
Jul 31 16:58:55 <hrw> nemo: so n800 can take 2x32GB sdhc cards... n810 can take 8gb card + 2gb internal
Jul 31 16:59:16 <nemo> hrw: ah. that's not really a big deal for me. but useful to know
Jul 31 16:59:31 <nemo> hrw: My current laptop has 4GiB of HD space :)
Jul 31 16:59:41 <nemo> hrw: along with the 96MiB of RAM
Jul 31 17:00:13 <hrw> nemo: my current laptop has 80GB hdd and 1GB ram.. but desktop beats it with 4gb ram and 820gb storage
Jul 31 17:00:45 * jott laptop is a n810 :)
Jul 31 17:01:35 <nemo> hrw: I was too cheap to pay much for my laptop
Jul 31 17:01:59 <hrw> nemo: mine laptop costed me less then n810
Jul 31 17:02:01 <nemo> hrw: X + ssh + XFCE4 + NFS chew up almost 50MiB
Jul 31 17:02:20 <nemo> Paid $50 for my laptop as a refurb, 2 years ago :)
Jul 31 17:02:33 <MangoFusion> nice
Jul 31 17:02:34 <nemo> Seamonkey suite takes up another 15MiB
Jul 31 17:03:00 <nemo> 'course, battery died on it, and replacing that now would cost more than laptop
Jul 31 17:03:05 <nemo> cheaper to get an N810
Jul 31 17:04:13 <qwerty12> *Sigh*. It's always good having a sbox target that uses CS2008.
Jul 31 17:04:38 <hrw> I want sbox free SDK
Jul 31 17:05:58 <RST38h> +1
Jul 31 17:09:09 <lcuk> back later
Jul 31 17:09:31 <RST38h> Nokia dropping phone prices
Jul 31 17:10:14 <RST38h> Including 5310 price, if any cheapskates are interested in a really thin phone for tethering
Jul 31 17:10:30 <dannym> can I implement my own connectivity Internet Access Point which will be picked up by "icd2"?
Jul 31 17:10:51 <qwerty12> Nokia drop prices. Sony Ericsson drop workers...
Jul 31 17:11:00 <RST38h> Seem to be S40-based though, so you may wanna skip on this offer
Jul 31 17:11:05 <hrw> RST38h: I am thinking about motorola razr2 v8 for hacking (when someone manage to skip kernel blocks)
Jul 31 17:11:17 <RST38h> qwerty: Nokia did it too - just ask Germans present here =)
Jul 31 17:11:27 <qwerty12> Ah, yes, Bochum :)
Jul 31 17:11:28 <RST38h> hrw: No.
Jul 31 17:11:32 <RST38h> hrw: Just no.
Jul 31 17:12:10 <qwerty12> RST38h, Do Russians have a hate of Razr phones? http://englishrussia.com/?p=1518
Jul 31 17:12:24 <hrw> RST38h: so bad?
Jul 31 17:12:43 <RST38h> hrw: Very nice build quality. Absolutely horrible phone.
Jul 31 17:13:08 <RST38h> qwerty: Bought one for my wife - virtually indestructable. But still sucks.
Jul 31 17:13:21 <qwerty12> Lol
Jul 31 17:13:33 <RST38h> The photo is actually an ad campaign though
Jul 31 17:14:35 <hub> RST38h: too bad the price don't drop for services
Jul 31 17:15:00 <RST38h> What services?
Jul 31 17:15:10 <hub> the crooks called "carriers"
Jul 31 17:15:31 <hub> 'cause a phone without the service is not really useful
Jul 31 17:15:35 <hub> :-)
Jul 31 17:15:37 <RST38h> Oh, not in Russia
Jul 31 17:15:50 <RST38h> They are ok here.
Jul 31 17:15:58 <RST38h> [at least for now]
Jul 31 17:16:03 <smyows> o/
Jul 31 17:16:11 <hub> RST38h: yeah that the saddest part. is we have the most expensive service here
Jul 31 17:16:14 <hub> here = Canada
Jul 31 17:16:34 <RST38h> hub: worse than US?
Jul 31 17:16:41 <hub> RST38h: by far
Jul 31 17:16:47 <RST38h> urgh
Jul 31 17:17:02 <RST38h> Actually, South Asia probably has the nicest carriers
Jul 31 17:17:06 <hub> even more since the $ are on par
Jul 31 17:17:13 <smyows> n800 run java aplications?
Jul 31 17:17:46 <hub> smyows: not out of the box, for sure
Jul 31 17:17:57 <dannym> smyows: interpreted, yes...
Jul 31 17:18:25 <MangoFusion> RST38h: razr phone? didn't get one of those shitty V3* ones, did you? :(
Jul 31 17:18:36 <smyows> hmm
Jul 31 17:19:14 <smyows> mpmaps for mobile phones get routes from googlemaps and shows on non vectorized maps
Jul 31 17:19:29 <smyows> maemo mapper have this feature?
Jul 31 17:19:58 <chelli> mikkov_: i successfully uploaded openvpn to diablo-extras-devel a few minutes ago, so your package openvpn-applet is now installable for users who have only diablo-repositories configured ;-)
Jul 31 17:20:29 <RST38h> Mango: I have got one of the first-gen ones, the slim model
Jul 31 17:21:09 <RST38h> Mango: may be V3, dunno, not really interested in using it for anything but an occassional call
Jul 31 17:21:19 <lardman> rm_you: ping
Jul 31 17:22:34 <hub> the razr v3 software is a piece of shit
Jul 31 17:22:37 <hub> the phone is ok
Jul 31 17:22:51 <hub> I'll see if it last me longer than my last Nokia
Jul 31 17:22:52 <hub> :-)
Jul 31 17:23:02 <hub> it is in a good shape for that
Jul 31 17:23:51 <MangoFusion> yes. the software is shit. too locked down too
Jul 31 17:24:08 <hub> MangoFusion: but it gives phone call :-)
Jul 31 17:24:14 <hub> better than a broken Nokia :-))
Jul 31 17:24:16 <MangoFusion> true, true
Jul 31 17:25:45 <hub> too bad OpenMoko is so craptastic
Jul 31 17:25:53 <hub> and less capable too
Jul 31 17:25:59 <hub> (my motoral is quad-band)
Jul 31 17:26:11 <hub> s/motoral/motorola/
Jul 31 17:27:45 <lardman> hub: you go to South America often then?
Jul 31 17:27:54 <hub> lardman: Europe
Jul 31 17:28:13 <hub> lardman: I mean I don't really use it there, but I won't sacrifice the possibility to use it there
Jul 31 17:28:21 <hub> tri-band could work, but not as good
Jul 31 17:28:29 <RST38h> May I suggest an HTC "phone" as a good hacking target?
Jul 31 17:28:42 <RST38h> These are generic and I am sure WinMobile is full of holes
Jul 31 17:28:49 <lardman> Europe doesn't need quadband
Jul 31 17:29:10 <hub> lardman: it does. here it is 1900 and 850, europe is 900 and 1800
Jul 31 17:29:18 <hub> lardman: see, 1,2,3,4 bands :-)
Jul 31 17:29:32 <lardman> where's here?
Jul 31 17:29:36 <lardman> US?
Jul 31 17:29:41 <hub> lardman: north america
Jul 31 17:29:47 <lardman> I see
Jul 31 17:29:48 <ShadowJK> Don't forget the 3G frequencies too ;-)
Jul 31 17:29:57 <hub> ShadowJK: no 3G, don't care
Jul 31 17:30:00 <lardman> One of your bands isn't used much is it?
Jul 31 17:30:08 <hub> lardman: they are
Jul 31 17:30:18 <lardman> where though
Jul 31 17:30:19 <lardman> ?
Jul 31 17:30:29 <hub> I'd tell you if I knew
Jul 31 17:30:39 <hub> but I know that 850 is also in wide use
Jul 31 17:30:52 <zap> X-Fade: does DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS include "thumb" in the extras builder? For some reason I see that the packages are built as non-thumb ARM...
Jul 31 17:30:53 <hub> 1900 is the original deployment
Jul 31 17:31:00 <hub> but anyway, that's not the debate
Jul 31 17:31:25 <lardman> my phone is triband, has worked in NY, Chicago, Oregon
Jul 31 17:31:52 <ShadowJK> triband usually means 850 or 900, plus 1800 and 1900, I think
Jul 31 17:32:13 <hrw> ShadowJK: here it is usually 900/1800/1900
Jul 31 17:32:16 <lardman> for me it's probably 900+1800+something American
Jul 31 17:32:29 <hrw> as we have 900 and 1800 gsm
Jul 31 17:33:00 <lardman> GSM/EDGE 900/1800/1900 to be exact
Jul 31 17:33:30 <lardman> so I assumed that 850 wasn't used much in the US
Jul 31 17:34:04 <hrw> and then goes 1800/2100 umts.. and then some 1700MHz thing..
Jul 31 17:35:40 <Stskeeps> despair is walking around with your n800 in a polish mountain village, and none of the wifi networks will connect
Jul 31 17:35:43 <Stskeeps> :P
Jul 31 17:36:00 <zap> use aircrack, chap
Jul 31 17:36:08 <lardman> Stskeeps: try walking around Chicago and having likewise
Jul 31 17:36:11 <mikkov_> chelli: thanks ;)
Jul 31 17:36:38 <Stskeeps> zap: i might have been able to connect to one if i had brought my tcpdump :P
Jul 31 17:36:41 <Stskeeps> .. which i forgot
Jul 31 17:37:01 <zap> when I need wifi somewhere in a unexpected place, I always find someone's unencrypted access point :)
Jul 31 17:37:19 <chelli> mikkov_: now it would be extremely cool, if the openvpn-applet would provide and graphical editor for openvpn-cfg-files ;-)
Jul 31 17:37:20 <Stskeeps> i thought so too, but noo..
Jul 31 17:37:32 <Stskeeps> which reminds me i need dnstunnel for my tablet :P
Jul 31 17:38:05 <hrw> bye guys
Jul 31 17:38:31 <lardman> cu hrw
Jul 31 17:38:35 <mikkov_> chelli: would it be enough if you could just open cfg to editor from applet? ;)
Jul 31 17:38:35 <hrw> openvpn-applet? sounds interesting
Jul 31 17:39:16 <mikkov_> openvpn has so darn many options ;)
Jul 31 17:40:13 <chelli> mikkov_: would be ok, but at least some options like possibilities to import existing cfg-files would be cool :)
Jul 31 17:41:30 <mikkov_> chelli: i have somewhere half made version where you can select your cfg directory and then just copy files with normal filemanager
Jul 31 17:41:37 <ryoohki> any idea when the new n800 will come out?
Jul 31 17:42:13 <chelli> mikkov_: btw: how are you calling openvpn? with sudo? sudo-support is activated in my openvpn-package for user
Jul 31 17:42:35 * lardman looks for a datamatrix for testing
Jul 31 17:43:35 <mikkov_> chelli: i think that 0.2 is using sudo openvpn... or was it sudo /etc/init.d/openvpn. can't remember ;)
Jul 31 17:44:03 <hub> ryoohki: the N810 is available for a while
Jul 31 17:44:18 <mikkov_> chelli: it sudo /etc/init.d/openvpn because that way it easier to stop openvpn
Jul 31 17:45:59 <chelli> ok, so your openvpn-applet-package configures sudo automatically in postinst?
Jul 31 17:46:03 <lardman> wow, that is really slow code
Jul 31 17:46:52 <mikkov_> chelli: it places file to /etc/sudoers.d/
Jul 31 17:47:53 <mikkov_> 0.1 version used sudo openvpn, but then i had to use sudo kill to stop it :(
Jul 31 17:48:15 <pcaddict> hows everyone doing
Jul 31 17:48:44 <chelli> mikkov_: ok, and do you also call "update-sudoers" in debian/postinst, afaik, this is required, without it should not work ;-)
Jul 31 17:49:50 <mikkov_> chelli: no it doesnn't... didn't really test it, I'll add that. thanks :)
Jul 31 17:51:24 <chelli> mikkov_: i have "update-sudoers || true" in debian/postinst in the configure-section of the openvpn-package, i guess you should add do the same ;-)
Jul 31 17:55:35 * Deeteroderdas is away: I'm busy
Jul 31 18:11:28 <mikkov_> ... and the fix is done :)
Jul 31 18:19:26 <teamcobra> finally did my first scratchbox port last night.... dopewars  ;)
Jul 31 18:25:57 <teamcobra> now onto chibitracker, but is it possible to to build a scons-based project in scratchbox?
Jul 31 18:28:44 <jott> teamcobra: should be possible. you could also take a look at milkytracker which already works fine :)
Jul 31 18:29:24 <teamcobra> sweet
Jul 31 18:30:07 <teamcobra> I'll still learn how to port it and put some debs out, choice is always a good thing (plus making debs for the first time last night was a great learning experience :D)
Jul 31 18:30:07 <jott> teamcobra: http://outpo.st/milkytracker_0.90.80-1_armel.deb
Jul 31 18:30:18 * jott should finally push it to extras :/
Jul 31 18:30:54 <teamcobra> btw, if anyone wants dopewars, I can put it up someplace, but it's far from beautiful ;p
Jul 31 18:31:06 <Jaffa> teamcobra: you might also be interested in mud-builder for helping you to build debs for Maemo
Jul 31 18:31:07 <teamcobra> I need to hildonize it, I think... so that fullscreen works, etc
Jul 31 18:31:08 <jott> teamcobra: sure, go ahead. i think chibitracker might have some problems with the 480 height.
Jul 31 18:31:24 <qwerty12> teamcobra, penguinbait's already compiled dopewars but its not hildonised :)
Jul 31 18:31:37 <Jaffa> Blafasel: no; lcuk's tried it tho'
Jul 31 18:31:39 <teamcobra> Jaffa: looking at it now
Jul 31 18:31:59 * Jaffa apolgises for the plug ;-)
Jul 31 18:32:16 <teamcobra> qwerty: cool, I just did it because I knew it wouldn't fail/would make a good first try port ;)
Jul 31 18:32:34 <teamcobra> the 810 = best 300 bucks I've spent in the past 10 years
Jul 31 18:34:39 <teamcobra> re: mud-builder, can it handle other types of make, like cmake/scons/qmake/blahblahblah ?
Jul 31 18:34:47 <Jaffa> teamcobra: you should try and make it to the summit in September to see some cool stuff.
Jul 31 18:35:15 <hub> lardman: ok so in the end upgrading to diablo from chinook works. somebody dropped the ball at nokia, clearly
Jul 31 18:35:46 <teamcobra> Jaffa: googling it to find info
Jul 31 18:35:52 <teamcobra> because I just might do that
Jul 31 18:37:12 <Jaffa> teamcobra: Not tried for a while. It's basically a wrapper around dh_make and is undergoing some reinvigoration: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jaffa/mud_design
Jul 31 18:39:12 <teamcobra> ahh, berlin is a bit of a trip.... if I'm pulling in a bit more cash by then though, I just might pull it off
Jul 31 18:42:55 <teamcobra> hmm, milky is pretty nice, thanks for the heads up jott :)
Jul 31 18:44:55 <ryoohki> cd #nomachine
Jul 31 18:48:06 <qwerty12> zap, just out of question, do you use scratchbox in fedora?
Jul 31 18:48:13 * qwerty12 is thinking of switching
Jul 31 18:49:26 <mikkov_> i have scratchbox under fedora
Jul 31 18:49:49 <qwerty12> Does it work well, minus deb related utils?
Jul 31 18:50:32 <mikkov_> default fedora9 configuration doesn't work with scratchbox :(
Jul 31 18:51:30 <mikkov_> you have to give echo 4096 > /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr and echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled
Jul 31 18:51:54 <qwerty12> Ah, that's easily done :). I do the same in my sysctl.conf in Ubuntu 8.04, thanks!
Jul 31 18:52:24 <mikkov_> ok, thought that it was fedora only thing :)
Jul 31 18:52:45 <mikkov_> installer probably had some minor bug :)
Jul 31 18:52:51 <teamcobra> yea, couldn't test in 8.10 because it's x86_64, grabbed 1gb ram for $20 and put it in the laptop, got a 8.04 vm in vbox that works great
Jul 31 18:53:08 <teamcobra> Jaffe, mud-builder is insanely sweet ;)
Jul 31 18:53:21 <sbaturzio> Aloha!
Jul 31 18:53:31 <teamcobra> hello sbaturzio!
Jul 31 18:53:40 <flo_lap> re
Jul 31 18:53:44 <brontide> My boss is posting QR codes with a link to an internship page  *gah*
Jul 31 18:56:09 <t_s_o> ?!
Jul 31 18:56:37 <mgedmin> Jaffa: did you build vim 7.0-0maemo1 for diablo extras-devel with mud-builder?
Jul 31 18:56:43 <mgedmin> why not 7.1?
Jul 31 18:57:00 <t_s_o> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9009046382.html
Jul 31 18:58:27 <teamcobra> f9 makes babies cry
Jul 31 18:58:33 <zap> qwerty12: no, I'm using qemu-kvm and running Ubuntu 8.04 inside it
Jul 31 18:58:46 <zap> qwerty12: scratchbox is impossible to use on Fedora 9, on 8 it was possible
Jul 31 18:58:52 <qwerty12> zap, Ah :/
Jul 31 18:59:02 <kulve> zap: imbossible?
Jul 31 18:59:13 <kulve> s,b,p,
Jul 31 18:59:14 <teamcobra> I've used linux for 13 years.... and f9, as far as sane usability defaults are concerned, is around 10 steps back from debian etch
Jul 31 18:59:25 <zap> qwerty12: problem is, you can't disable VDSO on later kernels
Jul 31 18:59:28 <zap> kulve: yes
Jul 31 18:59:51 <mgedmin> is anyone working on scratchbox 1.x?
Jul 31 18:59:55 <brontide> What, 200mb of updates a day and a network manager that doesn't always behave isn't normal ?
Jul 31 18:59:57 <zap> kulve: in Fedora kernels there's no vm.vdso_enabled sysctl
Jul 31 19:00:12 <mgedmin> if the kernel is incompatible with scratchbox, which one should be fixed -- kernel or scratchbox?
Jul 31 19:00:25 <kulve> zap: ok. I've always compiled my own kernel (and never used fedora)
Jul 31 19:00:27 <brontide> zap: I've installed sbox under f9, it's there
Jul 31 19:01:07 <kulve> mgedmin: seems that fedora is incompatible, not the kernel
Jul 31 19:01:08 * mgedmin had fun debugging network-manager under ubuntu once
Jul 31 19:01:14 <zap> brontide: do a sysctl -a|grep vdso
Jul 31 19:01:27 <teamcobra> Jaffe: one quick question... I've made my package xml, and did a mud build pkgname, it pulls down the debian source, but does a source-only upload, not creating any debs/armel debs in upload/
Jul 31 19:01:52 <mgedmin> turns out, dhcp plugin scripts that do an 'exit' prevent later scripts from even running, breaking the communication chain between dhclient and n-m
Jul 31 19:02:16 <zap> kulve: I know how to compile a kernel, but I have better things to do
Jul 31 19:02:23 * brontide wonders why sbox work then
Jul 31 19:02:32 <mgedmin> teamcobra: you upload the source debs to extras builder, and get binaries in extras-devel
Jul 31 19:02:33 <zap> brontide: thats very strange
Jul 31 19:02:41 <zap> brontide: it definitely does not work with vdso=1
Jul 31 19:02:58 <teamcobra> ohhhhh, wow, will give it a shot then
Jul 31 19:03:00 <zap> at least the qemu arm emilation
Jul 31 19:03:02 <brontide> this is stock f9, my work laptop
Jul 31 19:03:10 <zap> what CPU?
Jul 31 19:03:16 <brontide> PM
Jul 31 19:03:19 <zap> hm
Jul 31 19:03:28 <zap> maybe it's something core duo 2 related
Jul 31 19:03:33 <brontide> possibly
Jul 31 19:03:44 <brontide> It's an old D600
Jul 31 19:03:47 <zap> maybe vdso is disabled on earlier CPUs, as it maybe uses some support from hardware
Jul 31 19:03:49 <brontide> Dell D600 that is
Jul 31 19:05:03 <kulve> zap: the issue came with 2.6.21
Jul 31 19:05:20 <mgedmin> vdso is purely a software thing
Jul 31 19:05:21 <brontide> Oh  vdso... [root@localhost ~]# sysctl -a|grep vdso
Jul 31 19:05:22 <brontide> vm.vdso_enabled = 0
Jul 31 19:05:31 <mikkov_> i have 2.6.25.11-97.fc9.i686 and sbox working
Jul 31 19:05:32 <mgedmin> it's a faster ABI for making system calls
Jul 31 19:05:34 <zap> brontide: very strange
Jul 31 19:05:36 <kulve> I have "vm.vdso_enabled = 2"
Jul 31 19:05:39 <zap> brontide: rpm -q kernel ?
Jul 31 19:06:03 <brontide> kernel-2.6.25.9-76.fc9.i686
Jul 31 19:06:11 <zap> ah
Jul 31 19:06:15 <zap> I'm on x86_64
Jul 31 19:06:20 <zap> perhaps thats the reason
Jul 31 19:06:34 <mgedmin> http://www.trilithium.com/johan/2005/08/linux-gate/
Jul 31 19:06:38 <brontide> Ummm... last I checked sbx was incompatible with 64bit
Jul 31 19:06:39 <zap> perhaps even vdso cannot be disabled on x86_64 on any distribution?
Jul 31 19:06:45 <zap> thats it then
Jul 31 19:06:47 <mgedmin> could be
Jul 31 19:06:57 <mgedmin> yep
Jul 31 19:06:57 <kulve> brontide: sbox is quite self contained and runs on 64bit too
Jul 31 19:07:08 <mgedmin> ubuntu 8.04, no vdso in /proc/sys/vm on 64-bit
Jul 31 19:07:24 <zap> kulve: the 32-bit syscalls are a bit different on x86_64
Jul 31 19:07:36 <brontide> the documentation says nay, but I haven't pushed it
Jul 31 19:07:40 <zap> mgedmin: does sbox work for you?
Jul 31 19:07:46 <mgedmin> on 64 bit? never tried
Jul 31 19:07:55 <zap> aha
Jul 31 19:07:59 <mgedmin> installing scratchbox is JUST TOO MUCH HASSLE to do it on random machines
Jul 31 19:08:04 <zap> :)
Jul 31 19:08:07 <kulve> zap: I know that 32bit sbox works on 64bit debian
Jul 31 19:08:07 <mgedmin> I did it two or three times on my laptop
Jul 31 19:08:26 <zap> I even tried to build scratchbox on fedora
Jul 31 19:08:30 <zap> that was a horror
Jul 31 19:08:36 <mgedmin> hm, I could run the maemo sdk installer script
Jul 31 19:08:48 <mgedmin> not on the build server at work, but on my desktop at home
Jul 31 19:08:51 <mgedmin> see how it fails
Jul 31 19:09:16 <kulve> mgedmin: I usually install sbox from tar balls to some weird location. Works well and can be easily removed when not needed anymore..
Jul 31 19:09:41 <kulve> that can be done with the maemo installer script too
Jul 31 19:09:44 <brontide> I tried under f8 x86_64 and got most of the way through before it said outright that it doesn't work under 64bit... at least until sbox 2.0+
Jul 31 19:09:51 * zap gives another try to scratchbox-on-fedora
Jul 31 19:10:01 <zap> now that I know how it should work... :)
Jul 31 19:10:24 <brontide> then I looked at sbox 2.0 and walked away
Jul 31 19:10:35 <teamcobra> is there a way to put up a build server that mirrors the functionality of the extras builder @ garage, that way I can test my packages/mud-built sources w/o just diving head first and having those packages pop up in extras-devel? (I don't want to be anyone's headache while I test things this week ;p)
Jul 31 19:11:05 <teamcobra> hell, I'd even be willing to host such a vm myself w/ a launchpad ppa type interface
Jul 31 19:11:14 <zap> teamcobra: isn't it enough to build a .deb on your system first?
Jul 31 19:11:18 <brontide> we really need a self contained qemu ARMTEL environment that mimics the unit
Jul 31 19:11:38 <zap> which can be flashed with the ROM image :)
Jul 31 19:11:44 <brontide> which doesn't require a lobotomy just to be installed
Jul 31 19:12:02 <mgedmin> that would be great for testing
Jul 31 19:12:05 <mgedmin> not so great for building
Jul 31 19:12:16 <teamcobra> zap: heh, I've done that..... just enamored w/ mud-build now that I've seen it ;p
Jul 31 19:13:07 <RST38h> brontide: as hrw said, we need to get rid of sb
Jul 31 19:13:35 * RST38h isn't even sure why Nokia decided to implement something as convoluted as sb
Jul 31 19:14:20 <brontide> probaby becasuse it WORKSFORME
Jul 31 19:14:33 <teamcobra> to be fair, sb's learning curve is low because it's just like a chroot environment
Jul 31 19:14:44 <RST38h> it IS chroot environment
Jul 31 19:15:07 <qwerty12> brontide, get off the bugzilla before it takes you too!
Jul 31 19:15:10 <teamcobra> rst: and that fact alone saved my hide last night when I couldn't upload the deb from my vm to my website
Jul 31 19:15:23 <RST38h> brontide: yes, but they had to make a lot of non obvious and difficult steps before it started working for them
Jul 31 19:15:31 <teamcobra> had to copy it out of the chroot to the vm's filesystem, then sftp from vm to host to get it out ;p
Jul 31 19:16:00 <RST38h> teamcobra: you do understand that if you did not have sb, you would never even have to think about it?
Jul 31 19:16:06 <brontide> I  would much rather just have a .img of an ontablet environment that runs in a vm
Jul 31 19:16:11 <RST38h> You would not even need a vm
Jul 31 19:17:23 <teamcobra> RST38h, without a vm and without a chroot, what do you propose?
Jul 31 19:18:03 <RST38h> teamcobra: a standard cross compiling gcc environment that you can run either in Windows or in Linux
Jul 31 19:18:19 <RST38h> you compile a binary and scp it to the device
Jul 31 19:18:20 <teamcobra> that's what I thought ;)
Jul 31 19:18:34 <RST38h> or you use packaging tools provided with the environment to make a package
Jul 31 19:18:36 <teamcobra> well...... that _is_ the endgame best idea
Jul 31 19:18:46 <RST38h> It is also the simplest idea to implement
Jul 31 19:18:57 <brontide> actually it's not
Jul 31 19:19:08 <RST38h> So I am wondering just WHAT exactly moved Nokia guys toward doing it the way it is done
Jul 31 19:19:39 <mgedmin> isn't that documented on scratchbox.org?
Jul 31 19:19:56 <brontide> since you have to develop and maintain documentation, headers, and libs for every dev platform and you still need a VM for testing
Jul 31 19:19:59 <teamcobra> well... what about apps dealing w/ different versions of libs (think maemo libs)
Jul 31 19:20:00 <mgedmin> I remember reading something about it, and the reasons seemed plausible
Jul 31 19:20:19 <RST38h> brontide: Why do you need a VM for testing again?
Jul 31 19:20:34 <RST38h> mgedmin: if you can find a url, please do
Jul 31 19:20:40 <brontide> a cross-compiler only works to make the binary, you still need to test
Jul 31 19:20:50 <mgedmin> RST38h: www.google.com is a url, will it do?
Jul 31 19:20:58 <RST38h> brontide: and how are you supposed to test on a vm?
Jul 31 19:21:12 <lardman> hub: cool, glad you got it sorted out :)
Jul 31 19:21:13 <RST38h> mgedmin: not really, as I am tired and lazy
Jul 31 19:21:36 <hub> lardman: yeah, it is just annoying.
Jul 31 19:21:58 <lardman> hub: you should ping a Nokian about it if you're sure it's corrupt
Jul 31 19:22:03 <mgedmin> RST38h: try http://scratchbox.org/documentation/general/tutorials/explained.html
Jul 31 19:22:07 <brontide> How do you propose testing in a cross-compiling environment?  last I checked windows doesn't contain libosso
Jul 31 19:22:09 <RST38h> mgedmin: thanks
Jul 31 19:22:10 * mgedmin is too lazy to read that page himself
Jul 31 19:22:12 <hub> lardman: it was not corrupt.
Jul 31 19:22:27 <zap> scratchbox does not use on my x86_64 kernel, barfs about VDSO
Jul 31 19:22:29 <RST38h> brontide: you test on a real device, and this is true even if you have a vm
Jul 31 19:22:29 <hub> lardman: it is the flasher that suck monkey balls
Jul 31 19:22:46 <lardman> hub: oh, fair enough; do you know why?
Jul 31 19:22:52 <brontide> Sure, if we all have money to burn on devices
Jul 31 19:22:53 <hub> lardman: FIASCO
Jul 31 19:22:55 <RST38h> brontide: because testing it on vm is unreliable and does not reflect how it will work on a real device
Jul 31 19:23:06 <zap> and since there's no way to disable VDSO on x86_64, I take this as a verdict
Jul 31 19:23:13 <hub> lardman: somebody else here said they changed the layout
Jul 31 19:23:15 <mgedmin> RST38h: do you propose flashing a clean OS image before each test?
Jul 31 19:23:20 <RST38h> brontide: you have exactly one platform (OS2008), unless you are doing real exotic stuff with outdated versions
Jul 31 19:23:27 <lardman> hub: yeah, but that shouldn't be an issue
Jul 31 19:23:34 <lardman> hub:  qwerty12 I guess
Jul 31 19:23:34 <hub> lardman: apparently the last chinook knows about it
Jul 31 19:23:36 <mgedmin> otherwise how can you be sure your package will work for someone who doesn't have those 3rd party repos & packages set up on your everyday device?
Jul 31 19:23:40 <hub> yeah I think
Jul 31 19:23:45 <RST38h> mgedmin: I propose targeting the latest version for testing and letting beta testers test the rest, if they really need it
Jul 31 19:23:48 <qwerty12> lardman, moi? I would never say such a thing.
Jul 31 19:23:50 <qwerty12> :P
Jul 31 19:23:58 <lardman> qwerty12: :D
Jul 31 19:23:59 <mgedmin> RST38h: that was not my question
Jul 31 19:24:01 <hub> qwerty12: it did work just be reflashing diablo after chinook
Jul 31 19:24:07 <hub> s/be/by/
Jul 31 19:24:24 <qwerty12> I said they changed partition layout. I guess chinook NOLO can read those changes.
Jul 31 19:24:39 <RST38h> mgedmin: the answer to your last question is that if your program requires and external package, it will not work without that package, either on vm or on real device
Jul 31 19:24:53 <hub> qwerty12: yeah well, that did the trick
Jul 31 19:24:55 <RST38h> mgedmin: so, your question is kinda void
Jul 31 19:24:59 <mgedmin> no it isn't
Jul 31 19:25:04 <mgedmin> real-world problem
Jul 31 19:25:13 <mgedmin> you build a deb that works for you, but nobody else
Jul 31 19:25:19 <RST38h> mgedmin: so?
Jul 31 19:25:20 <lardman> qwerty12, hub: still it's a bit strange
Jul 31 19:25:28 <mgedmin> because that deb depends on other debs that you have from a random 3rd party repo
Jul 31 19:25:34 <mgedmin> and you didn't notice
Jul 31 19:25:35 <hub> lardman: no source code, none can tell
Jul 31 19:25:36 <brontide> Testing on real hardware is critical, but that also limits development to hackers with hardware.  A VM based system would allow 90%+ of the coverage of a real device and allow clean installs and reversion.  If my n810 is in the shop/home/with my wife playing mahjong I should still be able to program
Jul 31 19:25:44 <lardman> hub: tell me about it ;)
Jul 31 19:25:59 <hub> lardman: i just did ;-)
Jul 31 19:26:00 <RST38h> mgedmin: well, do not be careless about dependencies
Jul 31 19:26:06 <mgedmin> :)
Jul 31 19:26:11 <mgedmin> if you're very careful, you don't need testing
Jul 31 19:26:12 <RST38h> mgedmin: and use beta testers
Jul 31 19:26:28 <qwerty12> lardman, yeah :/. I still think flashing the xloader, nolo,initfs etc and the config partition from the diablo image and rebooted would have worked :P :)
Jul 31 19:26:51 <RST38h> If you *really* want a VM, nothing prevents Nokia from throwing in a standalone QEMU based VM with the SDK
Jul 31 19:26:55 <lardman> qwerty12: I thought that's what he did?
Jul 31 19:27:00 <RST38h> You do not need sb for that
Jul 31 19:27:16 <lardman> qwerty12: anyway, not to worry, not bricked :)
Jul 31 19:27:22 <qwerty12> lardman, he did it from chinook, but I guess what you say is true :)
Jul 31 19:27:24 <qwerty12> Yeah :)
Jul 31 19:27:27 <RST38h> But, again, I do not find testing on the VM neither reliable nor necessary
Jul 31 19:27:32 <brontide> But if Nokia's going to support a qemu vm environment, why waste time on sbox
Jul 31 19:27:47 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: the thought of flashing nolo gives me the creeps
Jul 31 19:28:12 <RST38h> http://scratchbox.org/documentation/general/tutorials/explained.html <-- does not really explain why they would create such a monstrosity
Jul 31 19:28:13 <hub> qwerty12: I had already installed chinook in the mean time
Jul 31 19:28:25 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, Hehe, but it has to be done, muhahaha
Jul 31 19:28:39 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: you have Brick insurance? :P
Jul 31 19:28:39 <hub> qwerty12: I just jumped too many release, probably because the website stalled at 20MB previously
Jul 31 19:28:51 <hub> anyway thanks for the help
Jul 31 19:29:09 <RST38h> brontide: so far, nobody form Nokia is talking about a standalone vm env
Jul 31 19:29:19 <qwerty12> hub, Yeah, I think I downgraded to the first fiasco image, upgraded to chinook, then to diablo when I messed up my wifi playing with a tool I shouldn't have been playing with...
Jul 31 19:29:22 <RST38h> brontide: the best you can hope for is the completion of sb2
Jul 31 19:29:34 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, Will getting a serial cable that fits the N800 be the same? :P
Jul 31 19:29:35 <RST38h> brontide: which, thankfully, does not lock you in chrooted environment
Jul 31 19:29:35 <Stskeeps> RST38h: atleast the debian armel port has qemu VMs running debian armel that compiles debian armel..
Jul 31 19:29:46 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: depends on how much you can screw up :P
Jul 31 19:29:52 * qwerty12 already has a service cable for my phone that I once used when I bricked it...
Jul 31 19:30:06 <lardman> Stskeeps: it's actually reasonably safe, if you look at the messages which come out, it checks to make sure it's got a good version before flashing it
Jul 31 19:30:08 <RST38h> Sts: This sounds like something done by a personal who has no real life.
Jul 31 19:30:15 <RST38h> s/personal/person
Jul 31 19:30:26 <lardman> Stskeeps: I think it would be pretty hard to make a real brick
Jul 31 19:30:26 <Stskeeps> RST38h: yes, but it's better than compiling debian packages on a slow armel board.. :P
Jul 31 19:30:49 <RST38h> Sts: I still do not understand why you can't CROSSCOMPILE armel packages
Jul 31 19:31:09 <brontide> because it's no less uninviting to developers than sb
Jul 31 19:31:10 <qwerty12> lardman, nah, insert fanoush's module, use mtd-utils to write /dev/null to /dev/mtd0 :P
Jul 31 19:31:22 <chelli> Stskeeps: debian soes not allow compiling official packages in emulated environments, there was a very long flame-war because of such a setup last year ;-)
Jul 31 19:31:32 <lardman> qwerty12: there's always one! ;p
Jul 31 19:31:48 <Stskeeps> chelli: i'm sometimes considering that debian is -actually- hell, with all the flame wars..
Jul 31 19:31:50 <jott> RST38h: you can crosscompile them. but there are quite a few applications that compile an intermediate tool that process further files etc.
Jul 31 19:31:52 <qwerty12> I cooked that up in 2 seconds, ooh, aren't I evil
Jul 31 19:32:05 <RST38h> jott: And that tool only runs on armel?
Jul 31 19:32:11 <jott> RST38h: and when you run this on an x86 host this would fail.
Jul 31 19:32:23 <RST38h> jott: I mean, it is a command line tool with stdin and stdout and it runs on armel only?
Jul 31 19:32:36 <Stskeeps> my problem with scratchbox has been that often qemu-vm died horridly when there's an intermediate tool
Jul 31 19:32:45 <RST38h> jott: then I suggest to throw this tool away as a piece of garbage it is
Jul 31 19:32:45 <Stskeeps> try porting python
Jul 31 19:32:46 <Stskeeps> :P
Jul 31 19:32:50 <jott> RST38h: yes if you have "niftyhelper.c"  that is needed to process "bigpile.tmpl"
Jul 31 19:32:53 <chelli> Stskeeps: afaik debian uses a few Thecus N2100 as buildd machines for armel
Jul 31 19:33:21 <RST38h> jott: and that niftyhelper can't run on x86? how so?
Jul 31 19:33:22 <Stskeeps> i often just ended up doing sbrsh to my n800 and be happy, and go for a long coffee
Jul 31 19:33:25 <Stskeeps> :P
Jul 31 19:33:28 <jott> RST38h: many bindings for interpreted languages suffer from this
Jul 31 19:33:38 <Stskeeps> RST38h: because you just cross compiled it for armel..
Jul 31 19:33:44 <RST38h> jott: well, fuck 'em
Jul 31 19:33:44 <jott> RST38h: if you put work into it it will work..
Jul 31 19:33:45 <jott> sure
Jul 31 19:34:09 <RST38h> Sts: I can create a separate target for intermediate tools, no big deal there
Jul 31 19:34:24 <Stskeeps> someone should create a qemu armel VM that runs a subset of maemo
Jul 31 19:34:24 <jott> and nobody actually stops you from simply using the gcc from sbox in your host to crosscompile without sbox
Jul 31 19:34:24 <Stskeeps> :P
Jul 31 19:34:28 <chelli> Stskeeps: see http://db.debian.org/machines.cgi for a list of official machines and i really share your opinion regarding flamewars ;-)
Jul 31 19:34:34 <RST38h> Sts: In fact, a decent makefile will have this already
Jul 31 19:34:50 <Stskeeps> chelli: i've had debian-legal after me, both in email and irc. that was fun enough. (insert sarcasm)
Jul 31 19:35:06 <Stskeeps> and i even didn't want them to package my product
Jul 31 19:35:30 <jott> RST38h: if the world only would be that easy in the land of oss confusion :)
Jul 31 19:35:33 <Stskeeps> didn't someone make Maemo run on a qemu VM, as in, standalone OS?
Jul 31 19:35:36 <Stskeeps> i remember some screenshot
Jul 31 19:35:37 <chelli> Stskeeps: what is you product? ;-)
Jul 31 19:35:47 <Stskeeps> chelli: google debian-legal unrealircd
Jul 31 19:35:52 <Stskeeps> (i think)
Jul 31 19:36:08 <Stskeeps> many years ago
Jul 31 19:37:02 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, If you didn't want them to package your ircd, should have shown them your middle finger
Jul 31 19:37:22 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: /whois stskeeps
Jul 31 19:37:26 <Stskeeps> it's been like that since that period.
Jul 31 19:37:27 <Stskeeps> :P
Jul 31 19:37:29 <chelli> :)
Jul 31 19:37:52 <Stskeeps> (insert irony that i like making debian work on tablets when i dont always share their values.. :P)
Jul 31 19:37:54 <chelli> i guess, i really know why i do not read debian-legal ;-)
Jul 31 19:39:32 <RST38h> jott: I do not think OSS has anything to do with this
Jul 31 19:40:16 <Stskeeps> is gcc armel under -ARMEL target?
Jul 31 19:40:19 <RST38h> jott: But a few people with a lot of paid time on their hands and unhealthy obsession with doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff...
Jul 31 19:40:23 <Stskeeps> as in, armel instrution set
Jul 31 19:40:33 <RST38h> Sts: Don't think so
Jul 31 19:40:37 <RST38h> Wouldn't compile so fast
Jul 31 19:40:58 <jott> RST38h: well, i meant the fact that in a usual oss environment alot of different libraries and tools are involved which tend to use different build systems etc.
Jul 31 19:41:46 <jott> (which then increases the likelihood that things break with a plain crosscompile)
Jul 31 19:42:28 <jott> that's why there is scratchbox, openembedded, t2 and others.
Jul 31 19:42:59 <RST38h> jott: then you either throw away things that break or recompile them on a native system (see above)
Jul 31 19:43:14 <RST38h> jott: + file a bug with the maintainers
Jul 31 19:43:18 <jott> RST38h: sure there are solutions...
Jul 31 19:43:21 <Stskeeps> -/usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/3.4.4/cc1: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
Jul 31 19:43:30 <RST38h> Sts: Oh my god...
Jul 31 19:43:36 <jott> RST38h: but it's ususally not *that* easy.
Jul 31 19:43:40 <Stskeeps> (sb)
Jul 31 19:43:43 <jott> (as in time and effort)
Jul 31 19:44:05 <RST38h> jott: even Symbian has a normal SDK with a normal cross compiler
Jul 31 19:44:22 <RST38h> jott: even Windows CE does!
Jul 31 19:44:35 <RST38h> jott: why the hell are we supposed to go through this crap? =)
Jul 31 19:44:46 <jott> RST38h: yes, see above. they have other constraints than a usual oss environment.
Jul 31 19:45:12 <RST38h> jott: Well, I have just been looking on a MIPS-based SoC that runs Linux as an option
Jul 31 19:45:22 <RST38h> jott: It has a standard cross compiling SDK
Jul 31 19:45:58 <RST38h> how is it different?
Jul 31 19:46:00 <jott> RST38h: how did they build the base system?
Jul 31 19:46:27 <jott> RST38h: if you restrict to a subset of tools and things, you can provide an sdk.
Jul 31 19:46:31 <Stskeeps> RST38h: the issue mentioned about make process with some friendly helper just means that the Makefile is not cross compiling compatible..
Jul 31 19:46:46 <Stskeeps> which is where stuff like sb is needed :/
Jul 31 19:46:49 <jott> like a plain gtk sdk.
Jul 31 19:46:55 <robink> Woah, weird; this chat session should be dead.
Jul 31 19:47:09 <Stskeeps> or an actual machine with the target arch
Jul 31 19:47:34 <robink> I had to change my V6 address.
Jul 31 19:47:36 <RST38h> jott: Well, you probably can't build the kernel with their SDK but you can build apps just fine
Jul 31 19:47:44 <Stskeeps> robink: zombie chat sessions!
Jul 31 19:47:53 <robink> Stskeeps: Indeed.
Jul 31 19:47:57 <RST38h> jott: And 99% developers are not compiling kernels
Jul 31 19:48:15 <jott> RST38h: sure, as i said. if you restrict to a defined subset you can provide a simple sdk.
Jul 31 19:49:05 <jott> it's just that there are quite a few apps where the buildsystem is not ready for crosscompilation.
Jul 31 19:49:18 <jott> if you start your own projects with just the sdk dependencies everything is fine.
Jul 31 19:50:13 <robink> BRB, reconnecting.
Jul 31 19:51:19 <RST38h> jott: As I said: depending on how badly you need them, either throw them out or compile natively
Jul 31 19:51:20 <jott> RST38h: but you are right, nokia could provide an sdk for direct gui development.
Jul 31 19:51:35 * RST38h does not need direct gui development
Jul 31 19:51:52 <jott> RST38h: yes. and to automate this scratchbox/openembedded/t2 where developed ;)
Jul 31 19:52:04 <RST38h> [just need an sdk that exists in the same environment as I do]
Jul 31 19:52:19 <jott> (i.e. compile "natively" or via qemu if necessary and do the rest with the host gcc)
Jul 31 19:52:37 <RST38h> But I do not want to compile *my stuff* natively
Jul 31 19:52:58 <RST38h> If python guys can't get their makefile act together, they are welcome to suffer
Jul 31 19:53:14 <RST38h> But why make me suffer? My stuff cross compiles perfectly fine
Jul 31 19:53:19 <jott> :)
Jul 31 19:53:51 <Stskeeps> RST38h: you may technically be able to take a debian armel running in a qemu armel vm, copy over your maemo rootfs, chroot into it, apt-get in gcc and stuff needed, and instant good devel environment :P
Jul 31 19:54:04 <Stskeeps> without all the crap
Jul 31 19:54:19 <hrw> re
Jul 31 19:54:32 <Stskeeps> you obviously canÃ't runui apps so easily but.. X forwarding? :P
Jul 31 19:54:54 <hrw> Stskeeps: you like to combine...
Jul 31 19:55:02 <Stskeeps> hrw: i like wacky solutions
Jul 31 19:55:18 <hrw> qemu can boot maemo on n800/n810 emu
Jul 31 19:55:22 <RST38h> Sts: Once again: I do not want to take debian armel running in qemu armel vm
Jul 31 19:55:26 <Stskeeps> well there you go :P
Jul 31 19:55:28 <Stskeeps> RST38h: alright
Jul 31 19:55:46 <RST38h> Sts: I just want to boot my Windows XP, start up FAR, write a makefile and type "make"
Jul 31 19:55:47 <jott> RST38h: why not use host gcc and crosscompile? ;)
Jul 31 19:56:10 <RST38h> jott: 'Cause there is no crosscompiling sdk right now
Jul 31 19:57:13 <RST38h> the only two sdks are sb1 (insulated from your home env) and sb2 (better, but still not entirely your host env)
Jul 31 19:57:16 <jott> RST38h: start scratchbox, install all -dev packages you need, copy the target dir and dump scratchbox ;)
Jul 31 19:57:45 <jott> or use openembedded ;)
Jul 31 19:57:45 <RST38h> jott: Stskeeps> -/usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/3.4.4/cc1: ELF 32-bit LSB
Jul 31 19:57:45 <RST38h> +executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, dynamically linked
Jul 31 19:57:45 <RST38h> +(uses shared libs), stripped
Jul 31 19:57:48 <RST38h> <Stskeeps> -/usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/3.4.4/cc1: ELF 32-bit LSB
Jul 31 19:57:48 <RST38h> +executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, dynamically linked
Jul 31 19:57:48 <RST38h> +(uses shared libs), stripped
Jul 31 19:57:49 <brontide> and hope you don't need updates
Jul 31 19:57:54 <RST38h> jott: See above
Jul 31 19:58:01 <Stskeeps> (that's from -ARMEL though)
Jul 31 19:58:15 <Stskeeps> -X86 may have cross compilation for armel thoug
Jul 31 19:58:22 <RST38h> Not really
Jul 31 19:58:32 * RST38h tried once, no bagel
Jul 31 20:00:04 <jott> file /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm/bin/arm-linux-gcc
Jul 31 20:00:07 <jott> /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm/bin/arm-linux-gcc: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.0.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
Jul 31 20:00:12 <jott> or what do you mean?
Jul 31 20:01:23 <Stskeeps> ah, thought that might be hiding somewhere
Jul 31 20:01:34 <hrw> have a nice rest of day guys
Jul 31 20:02:41 <Stskeeps> you can get the same from codesourcery's site, can't you?
Jul 31 20:02:47 <jott> yes
Jul 31 20:02:58 <jott> if they still link it ;)
Jul 31 20:03:44 <Stskeeps> there's a "g++" lite 2008q1-126 for arm, ia32 gnu/linux tar.. think s
Jul 31 20:03:46 <Stskeeps> o
Jul 31 20:04:04 <jott> 2008 is gcc 4 ...
Jul 31 20:04:13 <Stskeeps> ah
Jul 31 20:05:26 <jott> RST38h: you should really be able to dump scratchbox without very big effort and just use the toolchain from it :)
Jul 31 20:07:49 <corq-ubu> is there a maemo hackers edition for Diablo, perhaps unofficial?
Jul 31 20:09:01 <jott> i bet you could even fetch the cs2005 for windows and crosscompile under windows with the nokia rootstrap and maybe a few extrafiles
Jul 31 20:12:30 <zanshin> If I run Xomap as a regular user I get this error message executing it with strace: geteuid32()                             = 1000
Jul 31 20:12:34 <zanshin> write(2, "\nFatal server error:\n"..., 21
Jul 31 20:12:36 <zanshin> Fatal server error:
Jul 31 20:12:39 <zanshin> ) = 21
Jul 31 20:12:41 <zanshin> write(2, "LinuxInit: Server must be suid ro"..., 36LinuxInit: Server must be suid root
Jul 31 20:12:45 <zanshin> ) = 36
Jul 31 20:12:59 <zanshin> -r-sr-xr-x 1 root root 1358656 Jul 31  2008 /usr/bin/Xomap
Jul 31 20:13:11 <zanshin> it's suid root isn't it?
Jul 31 20:13:18 <Stskeeps> 'lo zanshin
Jul 31 20:13:20 * zanshin wonders
Jul 31 20:13:43 <zanshin> hey Stskeeps how was your trip  in the mountains?
Jul 31 20:14:00 <Stskeeps> zanshin: interesting, but could have been better..
Jul 31 20:14:11 <atka_> hello ^^
Jul 31 20:14:13 <Stskeeps> zanshin: i think that means that owner can do the setuid.. not entirely sure
Jul 31 20:14:25 <Stskeeps> zanshin: try chmod a+s?
Jul 31 20:14:35 <zanshin> ok
Jul 31 20:14:39 <Stskeeps> zanshin: are you struggling with Xomap from 2008HE?
Jul 31 20:14:46 <Stskeeps> or ours?
Jul 31 20:17:03 <zanshin> Xomap from 2008HE. I contacted the maintainer of Xomap about the error I send you and he said it's kernel related. Either we need a new kernel or use the old Xomap
Jul 31 20:17:44 <zanshin> I talked to johnx about it and he said it isn't worth the trouble of a new kernel
Jul 31 20:18:14 <zanshin> as the new Xomap hasn't advantages for the 770
Jul 31 20:18:54 <zanshin> chmod a+s doesn't work either. Running it as root works though
Jul 31 20:19:03 <summatusmentis> so, logo contest was decided, when can we buy the t-shirts?
Jul 31 20:21:34 <hrw|gone> all: if you have n800 or n810 and you disabled lifeguard-reset (via flasher) then please send me /dev/mtd1 from your tablet - email: maemo@haerwu.biz
Jul 31 20:22:33 <hrw|gone> zanshin: 2.6.18 from os2007 works on 770 with xomap from os2007. thats what we use in poky
Jul 31 20:22:36 <hrw|gone> bye
Jul 31 20:22:58 <jott> hrw|gone: working on full n8x0 qemu again? :)
Jul 31 20:24:09 <BULLE> DarkAudit:
Jul 31 20:26:46 <GNUton> X-Fade: ping
Jul 31 20:26:51 <GNUton> hi
Jul 31 20:27:19 <jott> hello
Jul 31 20:27:26 <X-Fade> GNUton: pong ;)
Jul 31 20:28:09 <jott> haha :)
Jul 31 20:28:11 <jott> nice error ;)
Jul 31 20:28:29 <jott> cp: writing `debian/libqt4-webkit-dbg//usr/lib/libQtWebKit.so.4.4.0.debug': No space left on device
Jul 31 20:28:38 <RST38h> no shit...
Jul 31 20:28:42 <GNUton> X-Fade: :/
Jul 31 20:28:53 <GNUton> jott: :(
Jul 31 20:29:05 <lcuk> jott, im used to seeing those errors ;)
Jul 31 20:29:10 <X-Fade> GNUton: EEK!
Jul 31 20:29:27 <X-Fade> GNUton: At least we have a lot of progress with the package.
Jul 31 20:29:37 <X-Fade> GNUton: But this needs to be fixed.
Jul 31 20:29:37 <jott> indeed
Jul 31 20:29:38 <GNUton> X-Fade: I´m very unlucky!! :(
Jul 31 20:29:52 <X-Fade> GNUton: I'll ask Ed to look into it.
Jul 31 20:30:39 <GNUton> X-Fade: ok thank you!
Jul 31 20:30:44 <jott> X-Fade: run docpurge ;)
Jul 31 20:31:47 <X-Fade> GNUton: Btw, it would be a good idea to not include the documentation files.
Jul 31 20:32:11 <jott> X-Fade: might be useful for scratchbox.
Jul 31 20:32:20 <jott> (they are in a separate package anyway)
Jul 31 20:32:24 <jott> but you are probably right
Jul 31 20:32:28 <X-Fade> jott: Ah ;)
Jul 31 20:32:36 <X-Fade> jott: Well, separate package is no problem.
Jul 31 20:34:06 <jott> but why the heck the buildserver has less than 5-6gb hdd space free? ;p
Jul 31 20:34:34 <X-Fade> jott: I have no idea..
Jul 31 20:34:45 <derf> It's probably some blade in a rack somewhere with a 20 GB hdd.
Jul 31 20:34:49 <X-Fade> jott: Perhaps old builds are kept for debugging.
Jul 31 20:35:18 <mikkov_> I think that one of the builders is like <1 GHz ;)
Jul 31 20:35:57 <X-Fade> mikkov_: I think they are all on the same physical hardware.
Jul 31 20:35:57 <jott> we will narrow down the "nokia runs everything on 770 as servers"-theory :)
Jul 31 20:36:27 <X-Fade> jott: Well, I have 4 shiny new servers for maemo.org :)
Jul 31 20:36:38 <X-Fade> And no, not a cluster of N810's ;)
Jul 31 20:36:41 <jott> n810 instead of zhe 770 ?
Jul 31 20:36:42 <jott> ah ;)
Jul 31 20:36:44 <jott> ok ;)
Jul 31 20:37:05 <jott> any eta for them?
Jul 31 20:37:10 <macoute> jott: no, theyre using n800 as its more inexpensive ;)
Jul 31 20:37:15 <X-Fade> Current setup was a test, now we need to scale up.
Jul 31 20:38:26 <mikkov_> X-Fade: care to tell server specs?
Jul 31 20:39:17 <X-Fade> mikkov_: for maemo.org?
Jul 31 20:39:33 <mikkov_> X-Fade: for those new servers
Jul 31 20:39:34 <jott> the 4 shiny new servers you mentioned i guess :)
Jul 31 20:39:55 <X-Fade> 3 dual core xeons and a quadcore xeon.
Jul 31 20:42:01 <chelli> GNUton: it really seems that you want to try out all possible failure reasons of the autobuilder ;-)
Jul 31 20:42:09 <GNUton> jott, X-Fade the Qt documentation takes "only" 319Mb.
Jul 31 20:42:50 <GNUton> chelli: I tryed them!!
Jul 31 20:42:58 <GNUton> all
Jul 31 20:43:24 <X-Fade> GNUton: Blah ;) Good thing I have you .orig.tar.gz file as hot backup ;)
Jul 31 20:44:28 * GNUton think that X-Fade will kill me on the maemo summit...
Jul 31 20:44:37 <X-Fade> GNUton: Nah...
Jul 31 20:44:41 <GNUton> X-Fade: :)
Jul 31 20:45:07 <chelli> :)
Jul 31 20:45:12 <GNUton> X-Fade: ok I hope... but I´m very sad to give you all this problem..
Jul 31 20:45:27 <GNUton> problems
Jul 31 20:45:31 <GNUton> these
Jul 31 20:45:38 <X-Fade> GNUton: I'll try to contact the right people to get more and better builders.
Jul 31 20:45:58 <X-Fade> GNUton: Don't worry.
Jul 31 20:46:32 <X-Fade> GNUton: I have put the big file in place again. So when I get the ok from Ed, I'll restart the build.
Jul 31 20:46:36 <GNUton> X-Fade: k, I trust in you.
Jul 31 20:46:53 <X-Fade> GNUton: lol.
Jul 31 20:47:03 <chelli> X-Fade: any ideas for #3466, it seems that GNUton had a lot of problems with it, as far as i look into the mailinglist of the autobuilder. i hope this can be fixed until i will try out the next upload of gnumeric ;-)
Jul 31 20:47:15 <jott> meanwhile we can start with the qt 4.4.1 package ;)
Jul 31 20:48:17 <X-Fade> GNUton: How long does your scp tell you it takes to upload that 106 MB file?
Jul 31 20:49:28 <GNUton> X-Fade: It takes more than 1 hour.. probably 1 hour and 30 minutes..
Jul 31 20:49:28 <lcuk> gnuton, just pretend to throw a glass of beer @ X-Fade..
Jul 31 20:49:49 <X-Fade> lcuk: Kees already did that last time ;)
Jul 31 20:50:01 <lcuk> :D see you will be watching out for it
Jul 31 20:50:13 <X-Fade> lcuk: Soaked my N95 btw.
Jul 31 20:50:14 <GNUton> lcuk: yeah! :)
Jul 31 20:50:23 <lcuk> :O you never said lol
Jul 31 20:51:03 <X-Fade> chelli: Ed can't seem to reproduce it. He was testing it out yesterday.
Jul 31 20:51:16 <chelli> hmm
Jul 31 20:51:22 <X-Fade> GNUton: I think your upload stalls.
Jul 31 20:51:29 <X-Fade> GNUton: So it just hangs there.
Jul 31 20:51:56 <X-Fade> GNUton: I have seen your upload of the big file stay the same size for an hour.
Jul 31 20:52:36 <mikkov_> GNUton: do you upload tar.gz as last?
Jul 31 20:52:55 <mikkov_> GNUton: i mean first :)
Jul 31 20:53:13 <GNUton> X-Fade: are u sure?
Jul 31 20:53:34 <GNUton> X-Fade: I have a 2Mb cable internet connection..
Jul 31 20:53:41 <X-Fade> GNUton: I have seen it sit at 60MB for an hour yesterday or the day before.
Jul 31 20:54:18 <X-Fade> GNUton: Have you seen ssh disconnects?
Jul 31 20:54:25 <GNUton> no never.
Jul 31 20:54:32 <X-Fade> Hmm
Jul 31 20:54:42 <GNUton> it stall some time but only for few seconds..
Jul 31 20:54:46 <GNUton> times
Jul 31 20:56:30 <X-Fade> I really need to make that build from garage plugin ;)
Jul 31 20:56:33 <Blafasel> Stupid question: The autobuilder stuff just uses scp, right?
Jul 31 20:56:51 <X-Fade> Blafasel: dput uses scp, yes.
Jul 31 20:57:06 <mikkov_> you can use scp directly
Jul 31 20:57:12 <X-Fade> Trye.
Jul 31 20:57:15 <X-Fade> true
Jul 31 20:57:44 <Blafasel> Okay. Following the stupid question a stupid idea: Did you think about something like this? Trying to keep the session alive artificially? http://www.revsys.com/writings/quicktips/ssh-faster-connections.html
Jul 31 20:58:30 <Blafasel> i.e. giving a shell that just outputs a "." every N seconds, reused? Not even sure if that is feasible though.
Jul 31 20:59:02 <Blafasel> That would involve upload (build stuff) and downstream traffic (...... from the shell).
Jul 31 20:59:44 <Blafasel> But as I said: It might be a brainded idea.
Jul 31 20:59:47 <Blafasel> dead, even
Jul 31 21:01:56 <lcuk> Blafasel, is your ssl slow?  and if so under what circumstances: when you are sat at the 810 connected out, or when the 810 is idle and you are connected to it
Jul 31 21:04:15 <Blafasel> lcuk: Pardon? SSL?
Jul 31 21:05:15 <lcuk> ssh even
Jul 31 21:05:47 <Blafasel> No, I was just commenting on GNUton's issues with the autobuild upload
Jul 31 21:06:39 <Stskeeps> mxr.maemo.org down?
Jul 31 21:07:12 <GNUton> It late...and I'm tired.. good night people!
Jul 31 21:07:14 <lcuk> :) fair enough
Jul 31 21:07:33 <jott> Stskeeps: looks like it.
Jul 31 21:07:44 <jott> timeless: ^^ :)
Jul 31 21:08:03 <GAN800> oh hell
Jul 31 21:08:17 <GAN800> Is that really the logo they picked? :/
Jul 31 21:08:48 <Blafasel> Ah, well. A matter of taste ;)
Jul 31 21:09:11 <GAN800> So glossy and gross
Jul 31 21:09:29 <jott> GAN800: looks like.. my first though was "add a beta and it's an average web2.0 logo" :p
Jul 31 21:09:42 <Blafasel> You're evil ;)
Jul 31 21:09:56 <jott> just mean :P
Jul 31 21:09:56 <GAN800> Yeah, jott. :\
Jul 31 21:10:08 <X-Fade> GAN800: Marketing...
Jul 31 21:10:20 <GAN800> I was really pulling for the mobius strip
Jul 31 21:10:32 <GAN800> This has nothing cool about it
Jul 31 21:10:42 <GAN800> There's no story
Jul 31 21:11:04 <X-Fade> GAN800: Well, actually.. there is a story..
Jul 31 21:11:04 <GAN800> Oh well, guess I shouldn't have been touring the Apple campus if I wanted a voice.
Jul 31 21:14:57 <GAN8001> Stupid EDGE
Jul 31 21:15:07 <bef0rd> where is the new logo?
Jul 31 21:15:17 <GAN8001> Dropped at 'There is a story..'
Jul 31 21:15:25 <jott> bef0rd: http://wiki.maemo.org/images/4/48/Maemo.org_logo_contest_glaoliver_1.png
Jul 31 21:16:54 <bef0rd> heh, thanks jott
Jul 31 21:17:20 <X-Fade> jott: You really have to see the mockup picture with the merchandise. It grows on you.. ;)
Jul 31 21:17:34 <X-Fade> Or not.. but hey..
Jul 31 21:18:31 <jott> X-Fade: i saw it. i don't dislike the logo but *imho* there where much better ones.
Jul 31 21:18:53 <X-Fade> jott: I'll be wearing another t-shirt at the summit ;)
Jul 31 21:18:58 <jott> :)
Jul 31 21:21:21 <jott> khertans proposal http://khertan.net/poubelle/logo1.png ? ;)
Jul 31 21:21:52 <X-Fade> Heh..
Jul 31 21:21:55 <bef0rd> lol
Jul 31 21:25:01 <jott> maybe it's just the gradient that is bad about it :)
Jul 31 21:25:55 <Blafasel> Ah c'mon. It's not that bad. I prefered a differrent one as well, but it's okay
Jul 31 21:26:20 <Blafasel> And really, I'd never refuse a free T-Shirt ;-p
Jul 31 21:27:10 <qwerty12> What if the T-Shirt had "Beat the **** out of me" on the back?
Jul 31 21:27:30 <Blafasel> Try it and send me one. I'll take pictures!
Jul 31 21:27:33 <jott> http://www.h-master.net/web2.0/image/(reflect)mæmoBETA.png :P
Jul 31 21:27:39 <Blafasel> (Though not everywhere in Cologne) ;-p
Jul 31 21:28:05 <Blafasel> jott: harhar! That's _really_ mean
Jul 31 21:29:27 <qwerty12> Blafasel, :P, tempting...
Jul 31 21:29:48 <Blafasel> Add a subtitle in quotes: "Still waiting for the PowerVR driver.." in italic script. I'd call it perfect then ;)
Jul 31 21:30:14 <jott> "I wanted PowerVR driver, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt"
Jul 31 21:31:07 <qwerty12> lol
Jul 31 21:31:29 <Blafasel> "I wanted packet injection, but I'm patient: It's beta after all"
Jul 31 21:32:25 <Blafasel> GAN800: What's up with the connection? EDGE and that bad?
Jul 31 21:32:28 * lardman will have to look at how much T-shirt printing costs
Jul 31 21:32:53 <GAN800> EDGE at the edge of coverage
Jul 31 21:32:55 <lcuk> cafe press do bulk rates i believe
Jul 31 21:33:08 <GAN800> cafe press is shit
Jul 31 21:33:15 <GAN800> worse than shit
Jul 31 21:33:17 <lardman> lcuk: there's a place in Bath that do printing, I'll see what it costs
Jul 31 21:33:27 <GAN800> cheapest crap you can imagine
Jul 31 21:33:40 <Blafasel> Create the same T-Shirt (assuming that the design will be published before) and print "Hey, _I_ didn't wote for it" on the back
Jul 31 21:33:43 <lcuk> http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product.aspx?clear=true&no=7
Jul 31 21:33:48 <lcuk> fully custom tshirts $15
Jul 31 21:34:38 <lcuk> GAN800, really? ive heard good things about em
Jul 31 21:34:51 <GAN800> really, they're terrible
Jul 31 21:35:03 <GAN800> cheap and easy, but the quality is crap.
Jul 31 21:35:11 <lcuk> can we print 1/3 of the maemo logo to represent 1/3 of the cpu being used?
Jul 31 21:35:25 <jott> GAN800: they don't have to be durable. just for one evening ;)
Jul 31 21:35:57 <lardman> jott: but if it costs £30 I'd want it to last at least a couple of days"
Jul 31 21:35:59 <lcuk> and you can customize loads of things
Jul 31 21:36:06 <lbt> does anyone know of a GPS database of speed camera locations (UK) ?
Jul 31 21:36:06 * GAN800 eyeroll
Jul 31 21:36:09 <jott> 30 gbp?! ugh
Jul 31 21:36:19 <lardman> a guess
Jul 31 21:36:21 <Blafasel> jott: Yeah. You want it for one evening, the event is nice and you meet interesting people, want to keep it afterwards and .. ;)
Jul 31 21:36:37 <GAN800> lcuk, all of the _CPU_ is being used.
Jul 31 21:36:51 <lardman> lbt: http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/ got to pay though now
Jul 31 21:36:53 <lcuk> ok 2/4cores are in use
Jul 31 21:36:54 <lardman> I think
Jul 31 21:37:00 <jott> Blafasel: i thought we all rip it off our bodys and party :O
Jul 31 21:37:09 <jott> hulk style ;)
Jul 31 21:37:18 <lcuk> jott, last time you tried that you got arrested
Jul 31 21:37:23 <jott> :(
Jul 31 21:37:28 <lcuk> you dont want the shame a third time
Jul 31 21:37:30 <Blafasel> jott: Yeah. Geeks. Hulk.
Jul 31 21:37:36 <Blafasel> Waitaminute
Jul 31 21:37:44 <qwerty12> lbt, I use the pocketgpsworld one. They charge now but you can usually find a copy that is a month old on TPB...
Jul 31 21:37:46 <lardman> jott: Maemo logo tattoos?
Jul 31 21:38:15 <lardman> qwerty12: ah, that's probably the one I was thinking of
Jul 31 21:38:26 * lcuk is going camping tomorrow
Jul 31 21:38:26 <lardman> qwerty12: what are you doing driving anyway!
Jul 31 21:38:39 <lbt> qwerty12: lardman: ok - will look - ta :)
Jul 31 21:38:53 <lardman> lbt: try qwerty12's suggestion
Jul 31 21:38:53 <qwerty12> lardman, Hehe, I don't drive, I shove it on to the crap Nuvi that we got for my Dad :P
Jul 31 21:39:13 <Blafasel> I was wondering the same.. ;)
Jul 31 21:39:17 * qwerty12 wishes Snoopers weren't outlawed
Jul 31 21:39:36 <lcuk> yer, you could fit one on your bmx
Jul 31 21:39:59 <Blafasel> He's probably driving a segway ;)
Jul 31 21:40:21 <qwerty12> lol, bastards...
Jul 31 21:40:44 <Blafasel> Eh, those gadgets are great. I'd love to own one..
Jul 31 21:40:55 <Blafasel> But.. The price is unreasonable.
Jul 31 21:41:03 <qwerty12> Come on, this looks retarded: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Male_rider_on_i2.jpg
Jul 31 21:41:04 <lcuk> banned on sidewalks
Jul 31 21:41:20 <Blafasel> I wonder if you could power your N8x0 from the segway battery though
Jul 31 21:41:24 <lcuk> faceplants from segways are harsh
Jul 31 21:41:24 * jott hums "white and nerdy" :)
Jul 31 21:41:41 <Blafasel> qwerty12: Yes, it is ;)
Jul 31 21:42:23 <lcuk> http://www.segway.com/individual/models/x2-adventure.php
Jul 31 21:42:26 <lcuk> offroad ;)
Jul 31 21:42:31 <Blafasel> lcuk: allowed on the street here. And on the bicyle lane. But the picture is really baaa
Jul 31 21:43:36 <GAN800> lol @ the plenware guys on the lists
Jul 31 21:43:42 <hrw|gone> jott: I suspect that this is it
Jul 31 21:43:49 <Blafasel> A customer here keeps 2 or 3 for marketing purposes and asked me to try it recently. It really felt great, was quite interesting. Driving is easy and nice. I just had a very loooong moment where I thought I'd never be able to get off again.
Jul 31 21:44:14 <lcuk> oh craptastic!
Jul 31 21:44:22 <lcuk> my craptop has crapped out
Jul 31 21:44:51 <qwerty12> Serves you right for having a crap laptop :P
Jul 31 21:45:03 <Blafasel> And for compiling on the device ;)
Jul 31 21:45:18 <lcuk> this has nothing to do with my 810
Jul 31 21:45:34 <lcuk> its a linux laptop that kinda worked but got updated the other day and now its dead
Jul 31 21:46:40 <lbt> you killed your laptop <sigh>
Jul 31 21:46:43 <Blafasel> No I mean: You've prefering the N810. The neglected laptop fails now.
Jul 31 21:47:20 <Blafasel> Uhm.. Please try to parse the sentence correctly and ignore my errors.
Jul 31 21:47:32 <lcuk> i was already compiling on laptop
Jul 31 21:47:35 <Blafasel> I just blame than on the UMTS connection, like GAN800 ;)
Jul 31 21:47:40 <lcuk> and foget what i said
Jul 31 21:47:47 <lcuk> i was already compiling on 810 before i got laptop
Jul 31 21:48:11 <lcuk> umm im just tired - had to go shoppin for campin
Jul 31 21:53:30 <GAN800> Until Delta gets me my damn luggage and my chargers. . . .
Jul 31 21:53:37 <GAN800> Later all.
Jul 31 21:53:41 <lcuk> ok, my x server failed to start but ive not got a console window, is there a ctrl=f1 type combination to switch to a different console, and if so, whats the key sequence?
Jul 31 21:53:55 <lbt> ctrl-alt-Fn
Jul 31 21:54:19 <lcuk> thanks, i knew i had used it and tried loads of combos :)
Jul 31 21:54:42 <qwerty12> lcuk, while you are there, do an "more /var/log/Xorg.0.log"
Jul 31 21:55:08 <qwerty12> *Xorg.log
Jul 31 21:55:44 * qwerty12 was reading about Xorg stuff today after having fun fixing my ATI. Still flickers but at least screen isn't garbled...
Jul 31 21:56:42 <lcuk> i had to hex edit the original edid info because my nvidia go 400 wants to firstly use tv-out as default, and secondly use wrong refresh rate for the native resolution
Jul 31 21:56:43 * lbt remembers kicking xorg *a lot* to make it work for MythTV on projectors, TVs, twinhead for ATI and radeon
Jul 31 21:56:49 <lcuk> the error today is "Could not retrieve EDID because get-edid is not installed "
Jul 31 21:57:19 <lbt> what distro are you on - ubuntu?
Jul 31 21:57:37 <qwerty12> It's not in standard ubuntu repos...
Jul 31 21:57:49 <lcuk> yer
Jul 31 21:57:52 <jott> sudo apt-get install read-edid   ?
Jul 31 21:57:54 <lcuk> but ive got bigger problems
Jul 31 21:58:02 <lbt> yes, but xorg please
Jul 31 21:58:09 <lcuk> :) how do i resolve the servers when my wifi isnt enabled
Jul 31 21:58:18 <lcuk> or copy the data to you
Jul 31 21:58:35 <lbt> rekey to the nit?
Jul 31 21:58:39 <lcuk> it never finished booting and the password is incorrect on the adhoc
Jul 31 21:58:47 <jott> why does it need get-edid all of a sudden anyway?
Jul 31 21:58:51 <qwerty12> lcuk, http://ubuntu.blueyonder.co.uk/archive/pool/universe/r/read-edid/read-edid_1.4.1-2.1_i386.deb - save that on a usb and then use dpkg -i on it
Jul 31 21:58:53 <lcuk> cos it updated
Jul 31 21:59:00 <lcuk> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=650996
Jul 31 21:59:02 <jott> oO
Jul 31 21:59:15 <lcuk> thanks qwerty12 :)
Jul 31 21:59:20 <qwerty12> np
Jul 31 21:59:20 * lcuk hunts
Jul 31 21:59:34 <jott> ah but that's like ages old :P
Jul 31 21:59:44 <qwerty12> It's the one in the hardy repos :P
Jul 31 21:59:54 <qwerty12> According to http://packages.ubuntu.com anyway...
Jul 31 21:59:57 <lcuk> i didnt have internet for ages, it had about 400 updates to do
Jul 31 22:00:17 <lcuk> i just left it runnin for a couple of days and turned it back on earlier ;)
Jul 31 22:00:25 <qwerty12> Woah. I just reformatted and reinstalled hardy and I only got 258 updates to do...
Jul 31 22:01:23 <lardman> night all
Jul 31 22:01:27 <lcuk> gnite lardman
Jul 31 22:01:43 <lcuk> qwerty12, hardy is latest isnt it?
Jul 31 22:01:50 <jott> yes
Jul 31 22:02:05 <qwerty12> lcuk, yer
Jul 31 22:02:18 <lcuk> when will they release sp1?
Jul 31 22:02:20 <lcuk> ;)
Jul 31 22:02:37 <jott> i think it's already out isn't it?! :)
Jul 31 22:02:43 <qwerty12> They wont :P. You'll get intrepid
Jul 31 22:03:01 <t_s_o> ah, your here qwerty12. you got me going with that tar of yours ;)
Jul 31 22:04:29 <bef0rd> 8.04.1
Jul 31 22:04:50 <qwerty12> t_s_o, hehe. There's a reason those files aren't in the tar. Those files were introduced in os2008. I have no idea what the Os2007 equivalent of those files are. We need konttori here...
Jul 31 22:05:32 <t_s_o> i tried copying the button_key_normal over, it game some effect on the left edge and garbage on the right ;)
Jul 31 22:06:07 <qwerty12> Same here, the image probably needs to be resized and maybe the gtkrc modified. But my theming knowledge suckzors
Jul 31 22:06:36 <qwerty12> Oh yeah, does anyone know of a mac address generator?
Jul 31 22:06:51 <lcuk> hmmm, ok where does the memory stick get mounted, or how do i mount it?
Jul 31 22:06:57 <jott> qwerty12: what do you mean with "generator"?
Jul 31 22:07:06 <jott> there are tables with vendor prefixes
Jul 31 22:07:22 <jott> (like the one wireshark uses)
Jul 31 22:07:38 <qwerty12> jott, just a little app that will spit out a mac address for me. But the tables should be enough for me, thanks :)
Jul 31 22:07:44 <bef0rd> lcuk, /media/ ?
Jul 31 22:07:58 <qwerty12> lcuk, try df -h and see if hal hasn't already mounted it.
Jul 31 22:08:11 <lcuk> ill see whats there thx :)
Jul 31 22:08:24 <jott> qwerty12: http://anonsvn.wireshark.org/wireshark/trunk/manuf
Jul 31 22:08:59 <qwerty12> Thanks, jott, this is v.useful
Jul 31 22:09:04 <t_s_o> qwerty12: looking at the original files, yep, they need to be resized. the the image is much longer...
Jul 31 22:09:23 * Stskeeps glares at his n800 waking up from a shut down state without him touching it.
Jul 31 22:09:55 <Stskeeps> bootreason 'killallhumans'?
Jul 31 22:09:55 <Stskeeps> :P
Jul 31 22:10:28 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, After it was booted in "DEAD" state, it may feel like that :P
Jul 31 22:11:06 * qwerty12 was experimenting with alarmd to try and get his n800 to boot in the TEST state without resorting to crude linuxrc hacks but I failed :/
Jul 31 22:11:30 <lcuk> w00t :) it wasnt there, so i cat /proc/partitions     then made /media/usb and finally mount /dev/sdb1 /media/usb    and it worked :D:D:D    *
Jul 31 22:11:42 <lcuk> * ok, the internet told me to do that, but it worked \o/
Jul 31 22:12:12 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: i don't have any active alarms, and it just booted (saw bootmenu "booting from flash.."), and it then went on blank display
Jul 31 22:12:36 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, That's odd :/
Jul 31 22:12:50 <lcuk> it crashed?
Jul 31 22:12:57 <lcuk> or shutdown for battery
Jul 31 22:13:02 <Stskeeps> no, i shut it down completely earlier
Jul 31 22:13:08 <qwerty12> My N800 would still switch on when I disabled the alarms :P. I had to clean out the alarmd configs manually
Jul 31 22:13:09 <lcuk> thats never shutdown
Jul 31 22:13:22 <lcuk> you have to nuke it from orbit.  its the only way to be sure
Jul 31 22:13:49 <Stskeeps> i'll be paranoid if it starts displaying strange alien signs to me.
Jul 31 22:13:49 <Stskeeps> :P
Jul 31 22:13:50 <t_s_o> hmm, i wonder if not it would be simpler to just rob felicia of its button graphics ;)
Jul 31 22:14:15 <qwerty12> lcuk, FAIL. It's it's not its :P
Jul 31 22:14:26 <qwerty12> t_s_o, Yes, that does seem a lot easier
Jul 31 22:14:32 <lcuk> Stskeeps, i had to disable the throbbing leds on the case - it woke me once in middle of the night and there was a strange glow around - i DID think i was bein taken
Jul 31 22:15:09 <t_s_o> as it seems felicia is a updated version of the 2007 theme. but why they went with a black background on the keyboard this time round confuses me...
Jul 31 22:15:25 <qwerty12> But the funny thing is, that if aliens were taking a northerner, they'd drop him quickly and be thankful they escaped because of that reason.
Jul 31 22:15:54 <lcuk> now that thats the biscuit, kettle and sink.
Jul 31 22:16:07 <lcuk> "xserver failed to start, would you like to look at the log?"
Jul 31 22:16:17 <lcuk> view log: ""
Jul 31 22:16:29 <qwerty12> Why won't hildon-application-manager obey dpkg --set-selections? Arrgh
Jul 31 22:16:43 <t_s_o> well that kinda worked, in a quick and hackish kinda way :P
Jul 31 22:16:59 <t_s_o> now all i need to figure out is the setting for the lettering colors ;)
Jul 31 22:18:09 <qwerty12> lcuk, Have you switched it into Southern encoding?
Jul 31 22:18:19 <lcuk> :D
Jul 31 22:18:27 <lcuk> haha
Jul 31 22:18:33 <jott> lcuk: http://xkcd.com/456/ you actually nail it ;)
Jul 31 22:19:01 <lcuk> :D
Jul 31 22:19:01 <t_s_o> qwerty12: your screenshot on the forum shows the keyboard with white letters, where did you change that?
Jul 31 22:19:05 * lcuk is snorting :O
Jul 31 22:19:33 <lcuk> im just gonna shut it down and reinstall windows
Jul 31 22:19:44 <lcuk> ^ that was a joke
Jul 31 22:19:47 <qwerty12> t_s_o, that was in the gtkrc, let me find the value. Are you repacking the deb or modifiying Felicia?
Jul 31 22:19:53 <lcuk> i do want this bitch to work - i ve gotta bring it to the summit
Jul 31 22:19:59 <qwerty12> lcuk, Dont do that again, I was about to get the chainsaw out
Jul 31 22:20:19 <t_s_o> copied over the felicia inputmet files to the echowb theme ;)
Jul 31 22:20:21 <lcuk> we have a projector at cbase dont we
Jul 31 22:20:38 <t_s_o> this will be one hell of a frankentheme :P
Jul 31 22:21:13 <qwerty12>         color["VKBButtonTextColor"]      = "#FFFFFF"
Jul 31 22:21:34 <qwerty12> btw, lcuk, I hate you. I can't believe you use the American spelling of colour in liqbase. :P
Jul 31 22:21:41 <t_s_o> http://sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2886 <- not in any way maemo related, but every man should probably understand it ;)
Jul 31 22:22:05 <lcuk> qwerty12, i hate english spelling, ive been a dev for too long to ever consider colour to be better
Jul 31 22:22:42 <qwerty12> I'm gonna keep on recompiling liqbase everytime you have a release and get sed to change color to colour :P
Jul 31 22:22:48 <lcuk> :D
Jul 31 22:23:01 <lcuk> im so gonna easter egg things just for you :)
Jul 31 22:23:10 <jott> but lcuk also used canvass for quite some time :P
Jul 31 22:23:23 <lcuk> and thought it was perfectly normal
Jul 31 22:23:26 <qwerty12> lol
Jul 31 22:23:47 * lcuk spells incorrectly lots, but at least im consistent
Jul 31 22:24:00 <qwerty12> no no no, that's i'm not im
Jul 31 22:24:06 <lcuk> i get things wrong 100% of the time
Jul 31 22:24:21 <jott> lcuk: maybe you should write a filter ;)
Jul 31 22:24:32 <lcuk> heh
Jul 31 22:24:35 <lcuk> i am doin
Jul 31 22:24:41 <henrique> good evening
Jul 31 22:24:55 <jott> lcuk2en_EN ;)
Jul 31 22:24:57 <lcuk> infact, jott - thats a better use of my time than faffing with this craptop
Jul 31 22:25:15 <qwerty12> lcuk, Make serious use of the X-Chat auto replace function... ;P
Jul 31 22:25:22 <lcuk> :) thank you for (unintentional) nudge
Jul 31 22:25:56 <jott> liqgrammarnazi :)
Jul 31 22:26:26 <t_s_o> ah, worked like a charm :D
Jul 31 22:26:29 <lbt> 'night all
Jul 31 22:26:42 <lcuk> gnite lbt
Jul 31 22:26:58 <qwerty12> 'night lbt
Jul 31 22:27:33 <jott> night lbt
Jul 31 22:27:45 <t_s_o> qwerty12: so in the end, what i ended up doing was ssh in, copy all the files from felicia with inputmet in its name to echowb, change the color setting you found and now i have a black keys on while background keyboard :D
Jul 31 22:28:41 <t_s_o> now, how to repack that theme for the archive and maybe the forum...
Jul 31 22:28:41 <qwerty12> t_s_o, Haha, nice, I was making all my changes on felicia :). I prefer all black but I do like the blue of adria...
Jul 31 22:30:29 <lcuk> jott
Jul 31 22:30:46 <lcuk> where can i get gentoo from?
Jul 31 22:31:01 <qwerty12> lcuk, switching distros? :P
Jul 31 22:31:31 <lcuk> yer :D
Jul 31 22:31:46 <bef0rd> :X gentoo
Jul 31 22:31:48 <lcuk> im not really, but i am just gonna reinstall it
Jul 31 22:32:06 <jott> lcuk: gentoo.org but it's not like install and go ;)
Jul 31 22:32:08 <lcuk> i dont wanna spend time faffin, i think it kinda sorta works at some res
Jul 31 22:32:24 <lcuk> yer jott, i know ive gotta level up first
Jul 31 22:32:31 <qwerty12> gentoo would piss me off with all that recompiling...
Jul 31 22:32:33 * lcuk hates grindin
Jul 31 22:32:37 <jott> gentoo is all about faffin :P
Jul 31 22:32:43 <lcuk> nahhh - its actually logical
Jul 31 22:32:54 <jott> yeah
Jul 31 22:33:04 <lcuk> i was answerin qwerty :P
Jul 31 22:33:07 <lcuk> i know its faffin
Jul 31 22:33:32 <lcuk> its like makin your own garden, you have to put time and effort and nurture it and love it
Jul 31 22:33:47 <lcuk> meanwhile ubuntu is a very pretty windowbox
Jul 31 22:33:48 <qwerty12> I use my garden as a toilet. (not really, but I may do)
Jul 31 22:33:56 <lcuk> with big freaky spiders inside waiting to eat your brains
Jul 31 22:34:04 <qwerty12> NOM NOM NOM
Jul 31 22:34:36 <jott> lcuk: but yeah gentoo is good to learn linux and have full control.
Jul 31 22:34:38 <lcuk> anyway, if this doesnt work - jott will you be takin your lappy to cbase?
Jul 31 22:34:52 <jott> my lappy is a n810 :P
Jul 31 22:34:53 <lcuk> jott - agreed for when i have time - ill set it up in a corner and watch it grow
Jul 31 22:35:22 <lcuk> yer i know - mine too, but projection isnt native yet
Jul 31 22:35:32 <lcuk> but i bet it would be fun to make it work on small and big screen
Jul 31 22:35:34 <qwerty12> I'm tempted to switch from Ubuntu to Fedora but I haven't touched an rpm system in years so I'm SOL
Jul 31 22:35:38 <Blafasel> I'm a Gentoo fan (actually before every cool kid found it), but for learning? I always thought that would be LFS (and I was too lazy, to dumb, whatever).
Jul 31 22:35:59 <jott> lcuk: Blafasel why not?
Jul 31 22:36:01 <jott> erm
Jul 31 22:36:06 <jott> Blafasel:
Jul 31 22:37:20 <Blafasel> jott: Well, it's not that much different from Debian, imo. Sure, fundamentally different in that it ships source mostly, but apt-get install foo or emerge foo still makes lazy bastards happy and keeps them clueless.
Jul 31 22:37:46 <jott> Blafasel: well but you usually have to tweak much more
Jul 31 22:37:48 * lcuk builds liqux from scratch
Jul 31 22:38:03 <qwerty12> lazy bastard  check, happy check, ubuntu user, check. Yep, that's me
Jul 31 22:38:09 <lcuk> lol
Jul 31 22:38:16 <Blafasel> jott: No. Gentoo users would argue that you CAN tinker more (and that's a different debate). But you don't have to.
Jul 31 22:38:35 <jott> Blafasel: yes sure. you get pretty vanilla upstream packages
Jul 31 22:39:05 <Blafasel> Note that I compare it to Debian (rather unsexy in terms of "out-of-the-box" stuff), not "I guess what you want" Ubuntu
Jul 31 22:40:03 <Blafasel> jott: And you choose your use flags once. Unless you want to tinker. You get packages that strip or require useflags, depending on the maintainer.
Jul 31 22:40:11 <Blafasel> Basically it's the same thing imo.
Jul 31 22:40:36 <jott> Blafasel: only basically.
Jul 31 22:40:57 <jott> Blafasel: i used gentoo since ca. 2002-2003.
Jul 31 22:41:12 <Blafasel> Yeah, started with 1.0rc6 or something.
Jul 31 22:41:56 <Blafasel> Would've to look up the date. Disclaimer: I still run it on several (nice, powerful) machines.
Jul 31 22:42:09 <Blafasel> But it's not a "learning instrument" in my book
Jul 31 22:42:11 <jott> i mean, put in a debian cd and get your ugly gnome desktop.
Jul 31 22:42:19 <jott> put in a gentoo cd and get a bash prompt ;)
Jul 31 22:42:21 <Blafasel> hehe
Jul 31 22:42:42 <jott> so, find out what you actually need for a desktop
Jul 31 22:42:56 <jott> or which desktop you want
Jul 31 22:43:13 <Blafasel> Nope. You download the LiveCD and get a Knoppix-like experience and install it wit the graphical installer..
Jul 31 22:43:24 <Blafasel> I fear you're living in the (better) past ;)
Jul 31 22:43:30 <jott> :p
Jul 31 22:43:43 * jott installs stage1 .P
Jul 31 22:43:54 <Blafasel> hrhr. Not supported anymore.
Jul 31 22:44:01 * jott cries
Jul 31 22:44:02 <Blafasel> Another sign that you're a relic ;)
Jul 31 22:44:25 <Blafasel> Ancient, not up todate ;)
Jul 31 22:45:43 <jott> even funroll-loops.org is down .. :/
Jul 31 22:45:55 <Blafasel> ;-)
Jul 31 22:50:11 <Blafasel> The worst users in ##gentoo wondered whether -O9 is really much better than the more conservative -O7 ;)
Jul 31 22:50:27 <jott> haha
Jul 31 22:50:47 <jott> -OMG
Jul 31 23:04:13 * Deeteroderdas is back (gone 00:01:08)
Jul 31 23:08:44 <t_s_o> hrmf, seems like my tablet is slowly degrading. a couple of days ago it rebooted when i inserted the charger, and now the battery icon wont animate while charging any longer...
Jul 31 23:25:26 <nemo> Blafasel: I'm more a fan of -Os on my 96MiB machine
Jul 31 23:25:39 <nemo> Blafasel: last I need is some giant library with unrolled loops loaded into memory
Jul 31 23:39:48 <t_s_o> hrmf, not even a reinstall of the battery applet seems to have fixed it...
Jul 31 23:40:04 <t_s_o> now it only gives me a black square where the icon should be...
Jul 31 23:40:30 <lcuk> have you had the lcarrs theme installed
Jul 31 23:40:41 <t_s_o> dont recall
Jul 31 23:40:45 <t_s_o> known bug?
Jul 31 23:40:56 <qwerty12_N800> tried refreshing  gtk icon cache?
Jul 31 23:41:17 <lcuk> no, it just goes beyond theme file and has an "extras" bit which installs stuff to replace and mess with the battery
Jul 31 23:41:30 <lcuk> status display*
Jul 31 23:41:52 <t_s_o> qwerty12_N800: and how do i go about doing that?
Jul 31 23:42:50 <t_s_o> lcuk: it seems to have come from a "crash" (or a unexpected reboot) i had when plugging in the charger, so i dont think its lcarrs related
Jul 31 23:42:57 <qwerty12_N800> /usr/bin/gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor
Jul 31 23:43:47 <lcuk> :) tis ok, its just the only thing ive seen mess with it
Jul 31 23:45:17 <t_s_o> well i still have a black square there qwerty12_N800...
Jul 31 23:46:26 <lcuk> perhaps its refreshed the square to black :D
Jul 31 23:46:36 <lcuk> black icons are all the rage
Jul 31 23:46:44 <t_s_o> heh, its as if the icons isnt even there. no reaction when i poke at the area...
Jul 31 23:46:54 <qwerty12_N800> you may need to kill the hildon-desktop after refreshing :/
Jul 31 23:47:11 <t_s_o> roger that
Jul 31 23:47:16 <lcuk> what about just refreshing and not specifying a path or index?
Jul 31 23:47:20 <t_s_o> there we go, thanks!
Jul 31 23:47:35 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk: wouldn't work :/
Jul 31 23:47:44 <t_s_o> and now its animation is back as well :)
Jul 31 23:47:55 <lcuk> \o/
Jul 31 23:48:18 <t_s_o> now to figure out why browserd dont autostart on boot...
Jul 31 23:50:14 <t_s_o> not that i reboot often, but...
Jul 31 23:50:44 <qwerty12_N800> been messing with the services applet :p? make tablet-browser-daemon start after the x-server. On my N800 diablo, browserd is /etc/rc2/S99tablet-browser-daemon
Jul 31 23:51:10 * qwerty12_N800 watchdog doesn't let me have a choice in rebooting...
Jul 31 23:52:29 <lcuk> is the api to browserd known?
Jul 31 23:53:38 <t_s_o> ah, figures. so i take it that the services applet gets the number wrong? i used it to uncheck the crawler, and accidentaly unchecked browserd for a moment...
Jul 31 23:54:39 <t_s_o> there
Aug 01 00:44:53 <brontide> lcuk: garage has the whole code last I looked
Aug 01 00:46:48 <lcuk> brontide, im just as guilty myself with liqbase, but it would be easier knowing where the api docs were
Aug 01 00:47:21 <brontide> heh... docs are a little harder to come by... hell a compass would be a good start
Aug 01 00:51:42 <lcuk> gnite brontide, chan
Aug 01 01:01:32 <Tired_> Hi.  I'm not sure if this is the right place...I'm trying to figure out if I can run MediaWiki on an internet tablet.
Aug 01 01:02:15 <Tired_> Or if there is a better solution for getting an entire non-Wikipedia wiki onto one for offline use.
Aug 01 01:03:40 <Tired_> The closest thing I could find in my research was a forum post, suggesting that trying to run MediaWiki on a 770 would be a bad idea, but nobody actually tried, and hardware has changed a lot since then.
Aug 01 01:13:36 <brontide> Tired_: Anything is possible, there is an iPhone app that can be modeled.  The summit will also have a user fpp that will be presenting using python and webpy for on tablet web services
Aug 01 01:14:00 <Tired_> Possible is one thing...usable is another.
Aug 01 01:14:12 <jott> Tired_: http://users.softlab.ece.ntua.gr/~ttsiod/buildWikipediaOffline.html
Aug 01 01:14:15 <Tired_> Are iPhone apps compatible?
Aug 01 01:14:17 <brontide> The unit is more than powerful enough
Aug 01 01:14:40 <brontide> It's a matter of someone putting the jigsaw together
Aug 01 01:15:16 <brontide> Isn't there a static offline wikipedia that could just be loaded into the filesystem?
Aug 01 01:15:58 <Tired_> This is for a different wiki than wikipedia, I can only get a database dump, not static HTML.
Aug 01 01:16:15 <Tired_> It's smaller, though
Aug 01 01:16:52 <jott> Tired_: if it's mediawiki there should not be much difference.
Aug 01 01:17:22 <Tired_> unless I did the heavy lifting on my desktop...grabbed the database dump from wikia, and somehow dump it to static HTML on my home machine for use on the tablet...
Aug 01 01:17:25 <jott> maybe also look what the stardict people did to generate their wikipedia stardict dictionaries.
Aug 01 01:18:47 <Tired_> I will look into that.  That offline thing you linked me to sounds a lot like what I just said.  :)
Aug 01 01:37:39 <rm_you> Tired_: if you just want to serve a wiki...
Aug 01 01:37:56 <rm_you> Tired_: dokuwiki is excellent, and uses files, not a database
Aug 01 01:38:10 <rm_you> Tired_: and seems very light
Aug 01 01:38:31 <Tired_> Does it do pictures?
Aug 01 01:38:34 <rm_you> Tired_: and it can be served with almost any webserver i think
Aug 01 01:38:35 <rm_you> yes
Aug 01 01:38:39 <rm_you> you can upload pics
Aug 01 01:38:47 <rm_you> they have a decent media interface
Aug 01 01:39:13 <rm_you> I know there was some light webserver compiled for the tablet, and i'm sure you could pick one and compile it yourself
Aug 01 01:39:19 <rm_you> apache might be a bit heavy but like...
Aug 01 01:39:24 <rm_you> lighttpd?
Aug 01 01:39:31 <rm_you> maybe
Aug 01 01:39:43 <Tired_> Hmm.  I found their website...I'll check it out, thanks.  :)
Aug 01 01:40:21 <rm_you> http://www.lighttpd.net/ + http://www.splitbrain.org/projects/dokuwiki
Aug 01 01:40:23 <rm_you> ok yeah
Aug 01 01:40:52 <rm_you> i ran something like this on a Zaurus SL-5500
Aug 01 01:40:58 <rm_you> so i think an n800 should be able to handle it :P
Aug 01 01:43:02 <teamcobra> inside of the xephyr-xserver+scratchbox, is there any way to pop up a terminal so I can run an app that isn't in the launch menu?
Aug 01 01:47:48 <rm_you> would it be something like "DISPLAY=? xterm"
Aug 01 01:48:00 <rm_you> where ? is the display that xephyr is registered to?
Aug 01 01:48:25 <rm_you> I havent actually used xephyr, unfortunately, as my scratchbox machine is headless
Aug 01 01:51:21 <ChuangJiang> HI, everyone. I'm setting up the Meamo SDK 4.1 according to URL:http://tabletsdev.maemo.org/diablo/INSTALL.txt
Aug 01 02:13:15 <yigal> Is claws a bit more snappy than the default mail client for os2008?
Aug 01 02:15:57 <doc|home> yigal: yes. it sucks a whole lot less
Aug 01 02:24:35 <ChuangJiang> I'm installing the Perl Module in the Maemo SDK 4.1 Environment. When running the command "make test", I have get the following error messages:
Aug 01 02:25:10 <ChuangJiang> PERL_DL_NONLAZY=1 /scratchbox/tools/bin/perl.bin "-MExtUtils::Command::MM" "-e" "test_harness(0, 'blib/lib', 'blib/arch')" t/*.t
Aug 01 02:25:11 <ChuangJiang> t/000prereq....ok
Aug 01 02:25:11 <ChuangJiang> t/01version....NOK 1
Aug 01 02:25:11 <ChuangJiang> #     Failed test (t/01version.t at line 23)
Aug 01 02:25:11 <ChuangJiang> #     Tried to use 'Compress::Raw::Zlib'.
Aug 01 02:25:12 <ChuangJiang> #     Error:  Can't load '/home/arm/perl/Compress-Raw-Zlib-2.009/blib/arch/auto/Compress/Raw/Zlib/Zlib.so' for module Compress::Raw::Zlib: /home/arm/perl/Compress-Raw-Zlib-2.009/blib/arch/auto/Compress/Raw/Zlib/Zlib.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory at /scratchbox/tools/lib/perl5/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/DynaLoader.pm line 230.
Aug 01 02:25:17 <ChuangJiang> #  at (eval 3) line 2
Aug 01 02:25:19 <ChuangJiang> # Compilation failed in require at (eval 3) line 2.
Aug 01 02:26:08 <ChuangJiang> But I have found the Zlib.so existing. Why?
Aug 01 02:26:54 <ChuangJiang> Can everyone help me? Thanks in advance.
Aug 01 02:45:05 <yigal> doc|home: that's good to here, what about flashing led lights :) can that be added or not easily
Aug 01 02:45:11 <yigal> s/here/hear
Aug 01 02:45:52 <doc|home> yigal: that works for me, although it can be a little annoying as sometimes it doesn't *stop* flashing until all messages are "read"
Aug 01 02:45:56 <doc|home> not sure if that's a bug
Aug 01 02:46:40 <yigal> doc|home: sounds good
Aug 01 02:46:49 <yigal> doc|home: sorry about the constant flashing though
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 01 02:59:56 2008