**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 02 02:59:57 2008 Aug 02 04:21:07 what format should the sources.list file use? Aug 02 04:22:34 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=search&q=Gallium3D Aug 02 04:23:27 X11 is too crufty for the third millennium. We need fundamental changes for modern GPUs. Aug 02 05:32:21 pupnik: X11 isn't a 3D API Aug 02 05:33:04 it is a framework where multiple APIs (including OpenGL btw) exist Aug 02 05:37:50 well yah Aug 02 05:39:09 nonetheless Aug 02 05:44:32 "Ymanton will work on video decoding via shader instructions. To be prototyped on Gallium3D softpipe implementation first, it will be later implemented for Nouveau." Aug 02 05:44:41 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nouveau_39&num=1 Aug 02 05:45:16 I'd like to see Gallium3D on OMAP3430 / 3530 Aug 02 05:52:57 PowerVR is a much simpler piece of hw Aug 02 05:53:14 So, the likely answer is "no" =) But even a truncated version of OpenGL would be nice Aug 02 05:54:52 yeah Aug 02 05:54:56 http://www.radeonhd.org/?page=fosdem_videos Aug 02 05:55:03 FOSDEM X.Org 2008 Videos Aug 02 06:01:41 yeah, the dreamcast had a pvr, wicked chip Aug 02 06:02:43 I believe I saw some opengl demos on powervr site Aug 02 06:08:21 http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/demos/shaderbrowser2.asp Aug 02 06:08:31 I mean http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/powervr-demos.asp Aug 02 06:16:52 wonder how much money would have to be thrown into the pot to get drivers into maemo for it....... problem is, whoever wrote the drivers would probably have ndas, and the driver wouldn't be open, and thus not in mainline Aug 02 06:17:06 unless there was a sudden break of common sense Aug 02 06:19:17 omap3530 and 3430 is much more open from what i've heard Aug 02 06:20:07 how much are the reference boards though? I'd help create a device Aug 02 06:20:25 beagleboards are very cheap / subsidized perhaps even Aug 02 06:20:52 and by much more open, are there xorg glx/dri/directfb drivers? ;) Aug 02 06:22:15 hmmmmm... I have enough to buy gear Aug 02 06:22:30 http://dkc1.digikey.com/us/mkt/beagleboard.html Aug 02 06:22:49 glx yes afaik Aug 02 06:23:15 well yes to all i think Aug 02 06:23:42 wowow, I should've bought this instead of an n810, but owell.... still, I shall build a nice prototype Aug 02 06:24:18 I know how to do multitouch on a big screen, but how would I pull it off on a nseries-sized device? Aug 02 06:35:08 hahah, nevermind, it looks like apple actually has a patent on that ;p that's wrong, jeff han did a lot of work ;p Aug 02 06:52:02 would be nice to mate an internet tablet to a larger (compatible) touchscreen Aug 02 06:54:40 right, w/ more horsepower + opengl es 2.0 Aug 02 06:55:25 I'd have to add more sd slots, one to accomodate a wifi card Aug 02 06:56:00 built in 4-port usb, maybe an extra bus for a built-in wireless or bt Aug 02 06:56:47 not an extra bus, but you get the idea... it's late ;p Aug 02 07:07:15 anyone here use omweather? Aug 02 07:08:55 yes? Aug 02 07:09:13 the "enable station from gps" option Aug 02 07:09:15 wtf is it for? Aug 02 07:09:20 thought it was to add city via gps Aug 02 07:12:43 meh no way to add custom cities internationally...useless then Aug 02 07:24:41 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2189&stc=1&d=1217234247 <- whats the pap that allows for icons on the home screen? Aug 02 07:25:17 personal-launcher Aug 02 07:25:48 thx Aug 02 07:33:32 can you adfd web bookmarks to personal-launch? Aug 02 07:35:58 Hi ! Aug 02 07:36:30 :) Aug 02 07:36:40 my stupid desktop lcd is dead ...! Aug 02 07:36:42 pffff Aug 02 07:37:24 that happened to me aswell Aug 02 07:38:06 dark screen ... green led ... no osd when connecting or disconnecting cable Aug 02 07:38:28 and ... a great luminosity 1 seconds before the blackout ... Aug 02 07:38:43 2,5 years Aug 02 07:38:49 heh, at least the OSD works in mine Aug 02 07:38:59 yea, it was not even 2 years old Aug 02 07:39:14 :/ it was already out of warranty obviously Aug 02 07:39:42 2 year of warranty on the mine Aug 02 07:40:38 so ... going to buy an another Aug 02 07:43:09 ./usr/bin/browser apparently launches the browser, can you add some shit to that to make it open specific pages? Aug 02 07:43:25 hum ... i ll don't buy another lcd Aug 02 07:43:44 heh, I had a CRT Aug 02 07:43:48 I'm using it atm Aug 02 07:43:51 :< Aug 02 07:44:21 Cptnodegard, probably, but I think that you need to add some parameters instead of shit Aug 02 07:44:29 crt powa ! Aug 02 07:45:09 bef0rd lol yeah, i dont know how or what to add so thats why im asking if its even possible. trying to get a photobucket bookmark on personal-launch Aug 02 07:45:53 is there a big difference between the screen on the N810 compared to the N800 on sunlight? Aug 02 07:46:56 liri, imo no Aug 02 07:47:12 liri: Day and night. Aug 02 07:47:37 liri: You can't read the N800 in sunlight. Aug 02 07:48:35 Cptnodegard, --url foo Aug 02 07:51:46 HELLO GUYSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Aug 02 07:51:47 just --url url or some : or "" or whatnot? Aug 02 07:52:12 OH HAI Italodance Aug 02 07:56:17 e.g. "browser --url http://www.google.com/intl/en/", quotes if needed Aug 02 07:56:31 X-Fade: I see Aug 02 07:56:32 I think it also parses "--url=foo" correctly Aug 02 07:57:40 I haven't seen the N810 so it is possible to stick in it a Micro SD instead o a Mini SD using one of those converters? Aug 02 07:58:00 liri, yes Aug 02 07:59:05 "browser -url lalal" didnt work, neither did browser --url lalala, browser --url=lalala, browser --url:lalala or browser --url "lalala" Aug 02 07:59:30 bef0rd: but would it be sticking out? Aug 02 07:59:57 liri, erhm no Aug 02 08:00:20 liri, I have an 8gb microsd + minisd adaptor Aug 02 08:01:46 @ helping people, got it to work, thanks :d had to do a new item alltogether forpersonal-launch and not just edit the web one Aug 02 08:01:56 can you show a picture of it? Aug 02 08:02:32 liri, the adaptor is exactly the same size / shape of a microsd Aug 02 08:03:03 bef0rd: ahh I see Aug 02 08:03:28 erm I mean, same size as a minisd, it has a small ranure where you put the microsd Aug 02 08:03:30 bef0rd: but how does it fit in the minisd compartment? isn't it supported to be smaller? Aug 02 08:05:50 Cptnodegard, I can only say that "browser --url foo" works for me(tm) Aug 02 08:18:03 liri, www.beford.org/cosas/ Aug 02 08:24:24 "We expect the PowerVR SGX drivers to be publicly available by the end of 2008. Only the kernel portions will be open source. The PowerVR folks will provide binary user-space libraries." Aug 02 08:24:40 that's something :] Aug 02 08:29:26 unfortunately, i don't know of any plans to integrate 3d gui widgets or compositing into ITOS Aug 02 08:30:21 anybody know of such things? Aug 02 08:32:21 nice, nice Aug 02 08:34:54 what's the best mapping app? Aug 02 08:35:00 (no gps) Aug 02 08:40:31 maemo-mapper? Aug 02 08:40:52 maemo-mapper without gps Aug 02 08:43:25 ok, thanks Aug 02 08:45:51 bef0rd: cool thanks Aug 02 08:46:28 bef0rd: how are the speakers on the 810? I read they are less loud than the 800 model Aug 02 08:47:33 i've never had a n800 but they are pretty loud Aug 02 08:49:08 ahh nice Aug 02 08:55:24 mine seemed to reqire break-in at loud volume for many hours Aug 02 08:57:58 ugh X input Aug 02 08:58:29 ProcessInputEvents -> ProcessKeyEvent -> AccessXFilterKeyPress/Release -> XkbHandleActions -> XkbProcessKeyEvent -> CoreProcessKeyEvent Aug 02 09:02:00 ah poor Daniel - fixing up X input headaches :) http://www.radeonhd.org/fosdem-2008/fosdem_2008_daniel.ogg Aug 02 09:02:13 anybody here with both N810 and N800 devices? Aug 02 09:05:03 Hi ! Aug 02 09:05:27 I can't download any map with the default map app ... it s always failed Aug 02 09:05:43 is there a way to download it elsewhere ? Aug 02 09:05:50 a http site ? Aug 02 09:06:07 hum ... maybe should i use a sniffer :) Aug 02 09:17:14 crashanddie's already been there, done that... Aug 02 09:18:36 ffs, I can't find that mkfs.jffs2 line to repack the initfs >.< Aug 02 09:22:01 Is there a way to reinstall flash? Aug 02 09:22:44 Diablo? Aug 02 09:22:51 Chinook Aug 02 09:22:57 Oh, out of luck then. Aug 02 09:23:07 Damn Aug 02 09:23:12 lol yeah my flash is broken, i tried to get flash10 to work :P Aug 02 09:24:06 I don't have access to a computer to reflash my tablet, as badly as it needs it atm Aug 02 09:24:11 The only way I can think of reinstalling Flash in Chinook, requires a deb based linux distro and a *lot* of time Aug 02 09:24:14 flash10 is i386 :P Aug 02 09:24:54 what's flash? you mean adobe flash, or flash ROM Aug 02 09:25:07 Flash as in adobe Aug 02 09:25:10 Adobe flash Aug 02 09:25:22 um.. and how it comes you don't have it? its part of standard ROM Aug 02 09:25:36 Mine broke Aug 02 09:25:46 how? Aug 02 09:25:49 %-O Aug 02 09:25:54 are you sure its not only disabled? Aug 02 09:26:00 Specifically, adblock seems to have broken it Aug 02 09:26:03 Ill look Aug 02 09:26:03 have you checked on the components window? Aug 02 09:26:55 Agh, that makes me mad... Aug 02 09:27:11 what? Aug 02 09:27:13 All this time ive suffered w/o flash Aug 02 09:27:21 And it's just disabled Aug 02 09:27:26 lol Aug 02 09:27:32 sucks for you :( funny for me :P Aug 02 09:27:38 I suffer with flash enabled Aug 02 09:28:04 Well, its true that i've prolly benefited too Aug 02 09:28:13 Lol, atm I'm using MicroB with brontide's usercontent.css, flash and javascript disabled and I've never felt better browsing on a tablet. Aug 02 09:28:26 lol ... Aug 02 09:28:37 flash is only needed to see ad Aug 02 09:29:00 qwerty12: in diablo its possible though, reinstalling flash Aug 02 09:29:06 as adobe-flashplayer is on updates Aug 02 09:29:27 Stskeeps: I know, that's why I asked if he was using diablo. Aug 02 09:29:45 ah Aug 02 09:30:58 sometimes i question my own sanity.. i'm trying to make actual debian installer run on tablet Aug 02 09:40:40 Stskeeps: apt-get works fine Aug 02 09:44:56 pupnik: i'm talking about the one used on cd images and such :P Aug 02 09:45:04 and yes, apt-get is prolly fine for many things Aug 02 09:46:18 Stskeeps: Is there any point, I had fun using this installer on my tablet last time :P Aug 02 09:46:51 qwerty12: not sure yet, just investigating since it is a more natural way to install and do preseed configurations and stuff Aug 02 09:47:05 Ah Aug 02 09:47:12 looking into a way where it would bootstrap a chroot folder with just enough to get things started, like an initrd Aug 02 09:47:24 Greetings and salutations gentlemen! Aug 02 09:47:25 so it doesn't need to affect maemo at all with packages Aug 02 09:48:19 which is a plus since 2008HE (which we plan to support) is a bit low on space :) Aug 02 09:48:46 Hehe, tell them to upgrade :P Aug 02 09:49:58 Heh, yerga's patch for full screen control panel is fun Aug 02 09:51:43 control panel needs some patches to work ok on a rotated screen :P Aug 02 09:52:29 In fullscreen mode, control panel works ok in rotation, easily usable. Aug 02 09:52:41 small icons? Aug 02 09:52:59 Nah, large icons Aug 02 09:53:31 Woo-hoo! looks like PowerVR will get some use soon :) Aug 02 09:54:08 zap: drivers discussion wiki? Aug 02 09:54:58 wiki and mailing list Aug 02 09:55:08 ok Aug 02 09:55:17 <> Aug 02 09:55:47 zap: Plan to tell if ;) Aug 02 09:56:27 Oh, I saw that message y/day Aug 02 09:58:11 X-Fade: well its nice to hear anyway that Nokia is on our side :) Aug 02 09:58:49 X-Fade: do you know what happened with the builder? Aug 02 09:59:07 zap: ? Aug 02 09:59:32 it doesn't work, I'm trying to push zip/unzip/zip3 through for several days Aug 02 10:00:02 zap: I see them as OK? Aug 02 10:00:04 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/chinook/unzip_5.52-14-maemo3/ Aug 02 10:00:39 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/z/ Aug 02 10:00:42 no zip or zip3 here Aug 02 10:01:14 but in the builder the log says everything's ok Aug 02 10:01:38 zap: Yeah, so it is not the builder but the repository queue. Aug 02 10:02:02 and how much it'll be here? Aug 02 10:02:23 I waited more than 24h, then uploaded them again yesterday at night Aug 02 10:02:47 zap: I'll check a bit later. Aug 02 10:02:52 thank you Aug 02 10:04:03 some people got out of disk space errors in their logs, maybe that's the reason... Aug 02 10:12:26 is there any way to view microb error console? (does it even exist :) ?) Aug 02 10:13:35 Hey people, what do you think about making a garage project for quick maemo ports of unix packages? The idea is it to contain just the debian/ directory for packages, and use the unchanged mainstream tarball as base (all patches will go to debian/). Aug 02 10:14:06 I mean, it's overkill to make separate projects for every unix program in existence... Aug 02 10:14:17 zap: Look at mudbuilder on garage. Aug 02 10:14:26 aha, ty Aug 02 10:14:28 or mud-builder. Aug 02 10:14:41 I'm not the first to think of it? :) Aug 02 10:21:44 Ugh, Perl... Aug 02 10:21:50 * zap is a perl hater... Aug 02 10:25:22 anyone know of a video clip organiser for the tablet? Aug 02 10:34:57 have you seen videocenter? Aug 02 10:36:39 bef0rd: btw, control panel full screen, rotated: http://i34.tinypic.com/e1w2c.png Aug 02 10:37:27 perl is good! Aug 02 10:37:33 [where it is needed of course] Aug 02 10:38:14 perl is good anywhere! Aug 02 10:39:01 well, fortunately you don't have to learn Perl to use mud-builder :) Aug 02 10:39:04 qwerty12, it looks ok, it could look better though :P Aug 02 10:39:10 Jalimo guys released J2ME for N8x0 Aug 02 10:39:14 It works :P Aug 02 10:39:25 So, whoever wanted to play those mobile java games, it is your lucky day Aug 02 10:39:27 RST38h: w00t :). Aug 02 10:39:47 it must be damn slow Aug 02 10:41:34 ok, now im really confused. used the tablet until the battery showed close to empty. put it into offline and locked it, then left it there. it stayed that way for 10 hours! then when i hit the power button to wake up the screen it went dead on the spot... Aug 02 10:41:56 * qwerty12 is really liking the look of the preview of omweather 0.21 Aug 02 10:43:38 Oh shit, it's in svn too, I'm building straight off Aug 02 10:44:12 zap: They say it is using JIT Aug 02 10:44:19 hmm, ARM JIT? Aug 02 10:44:26 zap: Also, it won't be slower than on my 208MHz E70 Aug 02 10:44:33 There is no ARM JIT Aug 02 10:44:42 qemu-like JIT? Aug 02 10:44:43 Jazelle is no JIT Aug 02 10:44:55 zap: *some* JIT that is part of Sun's PhoneME Aug 02 10:45:10 Ah, I was meaning "ARM JIT" as in "JIT for ARM cpus" Aug 02 10:45:14 qwerty: Screenshot? =) Aug 02 10:45:19 zap: Well, yes Aug 02 10:45:33 cool then, must try it ) Aug 02 10:45:45 zap: Tell us what you find! =) Aug 02 10:45:52 * RST38h is kinda afraid to put this thing on his tablet Aug 02 10:46:19 RST38h: url for that thing? like with lists of jsr's it supports etc Aug 02 10:46:33 what bad things can happen anyway? the worst - you will have to reflash, and I've passed through this lots of times ;) Aug 02 10:46:35 speed should be ok, but the resolution kills most games.. is it configurable? Aug 02 10:46:45 glass: http://smancke.blogs.evolvis.org/2008/08/01/phoneme-for-maemo-and-openmoko/ Aug 02 10:47:07 The only problem is, these Jalimo guys are kinda introverted - it is very difficult to understand what they are talking about Aug 02 10:47:31 RST38h: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2008/07/19/omweather-021-preview/ Aug 02 10:47:38 hmm cdc != j2me Aug 02 10:47:53 glass: well, j2me is really cldc Aug 02 10:47:57 but cdc will do Aug 02 10:48:31 yes.. but i'm not finding reference to midp anywhere Aug 02 10:48:42 do they have the classes for that or not? Aug 02 10:48:47 qwerty: Wow. Is it >20MB in size now? =) Aug 02 10:48:59 glass: oh, see, it is historical :) Aug 02 10:49:11 glass: midp became j2me that later became phoneme Aug 02 10:49:19 glass: it is the same freaking thing Aug 02 10:49:21 RST38h: I hope not :D. Let's see if I can get this to build, debian changelog says it is 0.21 version... Aug 02 10:49:38 RST38h: ..? Aug 02 10:49:54 RST38h: whidh midp version they support then or any? Aug 02 10:50:39 glass: prolly midp 2 Aug 02 10:50:45 glass: because phoneme is midp2 Aug 02 10:51:13 aha then. cldc 1.1 like? with floats Aug 02 10:51:57 this I do not know Aug 02 10:52:09 I guess running some benchmark will show you the exact version Aug 02 10:53:56 http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Java#J2ME_MIDP2.0 Aug 02 10:55:48 bedf0rd: I think it is different from the PhoneME they have just ported Aug 02 10:56:51 but phoneme is another VM right? Aug 02 10:58:03 it is vm+libs Aug 02 10:58:19 libs are in C Aug 02 10:58:28 and there are Java wrapper for them Aug 02 11:00:34 Talking about introverts.. The vala guys are somewhat unreachable.. Aug 02 11:01:47 blafasel: are we? Aug 02 11:01:58 blafasel: make a human sacrifice. Aug 02 11:02:03 Damn. You get me every time ;) Aug 02 11:02:07 or at least slaughter a goat. Aug 02 11:02:16 juergbi: WTF? =) Since when are you here? Aug 02 11:02:25 blafasel: for ages ;) Aug 02 11:02:29 And what's the magic highlight? Aug 02 11:02:42 "vala" + "hard" ;) Aug 02 11:03:44 At least this time I was idling patiently for 12 hours before I gave up though. Aug 02 11:04:01 i don't have much time, so i may be slow at responding sometimes but i try to answer when questions arise via irc Aug 02 11:04:02 juergbi: Do you own a maemo device? Aug 02 11:04:11 yes, i have a n810 Aug 02 11:04:15 Ah, nice Aug 02 11:04:55 juergbi: do you also have/had an N800? Aug 02 11:05:05 no Aug 02 11:05:21 juergbi: how's the GPS on the N80? Aug 02 11:05:30 err, *N810 Aug 02 11:06:00 it used to be pretty bad Aug 02 11:06:15 Nokia: Connecting People! Aug 02 11:06:16 however, with a-gps in diablo it works pretty well Aug 02 11:06:16 =) Aug 02 11:06:49 the map application could use some improvements but it works Aug 02 11:07:38 RST38h: ;) Aug 02 11:07:59 juergbi: Can I bug you with this vala question of mine? Do you have a second? Aug 02 11:08:11 yes Aug 02 11:08:13 Here or over in #vala? Aug 02 11:08:18 juergbi: ahh good Aug 02 11:08:24 #vala probably makes more sense Aug 02 11:11:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HhIt8A-d34 Picodrive Sega Genesis emulator running 150-175 fps on pandora dev board [ OMAP3530 ] Aug 02 11:12:10 X-Fade: ah, forgot to ask: does DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS on maemo-builder include the 'thumb' option? I see my packages aren't built as thumb, although they have support for it Aug 02 11:12:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGz52EIVN8s Quake 2 on pandora devboard Aug 02 11:12:54 software or hardware 3D? Aug 02 11:22:08 I can't believe, it's PowerVR :) Aug 02 11:23:08 it most likely is not Aug 02 11:23:14 at least some of the pandora people do have beta sgx drivers. I really don't know if that uses them Aug 02 11:23:45 * RST38h can't believe PowerVR IP holder makes any money seeing how difficult it is to get access to their APIs Aug 02 11:24:15 :) Aug 02 11:24:19 RST38h: their API is used by millions of nokia phones Aug 02 11:24:47 ORLY? Aug 02 11:25:16 afaik all those n-series phones uses powervr Aug 02 11:25:40 kulve: but how many applications? Aug 02 11:25:47 haven't seen any 3D on my wife's father' N95 Aug 02 11:25:48 RST38h: probably 0 :) Aug 02 11:26:02 "used" means "running inside an application" Aug 02 11:26:43 kulve: not all Aug 02 11:26:48 RST38h: I excluded games from "application" Aug 02 11:26:52 zap: n95 can do really nice 3d Aug 02 11:27:10 glass: how I can see it? Aug 02 11:27:31 N810 could do some nice 3D as well, perhaps Aug 02 11:27:34 just no drivers :) Aug 02 11:27:36 zap: buy a game (if there really isn't any free ones) Aug 02 11:27:37 kulve: just n93,n93i, e90, different n95 flavors and n82 have 3d in hw(might forget one model) Aug 02 11:27:42 zap: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N95 Aug 02 11:27:49 "332 MHz Texas Instruments OMAP 2420" Aug 02 11:27:57 "Fully HW accelerated 3D (OpenGL ES 1.1, HW accelerated Java 3D)" Aug 02 11:27:59 zap: download some 3d games that use it.. that one rally game at least and some others Aug 02 11:28:19 zap: or some j2me stuff that use the 3d lib Aug 02 11:28:38 ok Aug 02 11:28:48 software zap Aug 02 11:29:05 e90 does nice 3d on the highres inside screen Aug 02 11:29:37 On the other hand "sell hw manufacturer some 3d crap, do not let his clients use it hoping that this way nobody figures out it is crap" is also a good strategy Aug 02 11:30:40 i'm not sure but i think the quake port for n95 uses the 3d hw too Aug 02 11:32:04 it runs on 3d-less phones afaik Aug 02 11:39:49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe_R787gREc jaguar emulator Aug 02 11:40:20 RST38h: the same libs use sw on phones without hw Aug 02 11:41:46 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH-mcMpBocU snes emulator Aug 02 11:43:43 everybody is getting snes emulator but us :( Aug 02 11:43:53 (decent speed snes emulator) Aug 02 11:45:24 snes9x Aug 02 11:45:39 just port it (preferably gp2x version) and you are all set Aug 02 11:46:50 I was checking somebody else's work trying to port a gp2x snes emulator, it was an horror, as he called the src package :P Aug 02 11:47:35 well, gp2x guys are kinda haxxorish Aug 02 11:47:45 but it should still be portable Aug 02 11:51:58 oh, it was pupnik heh http://pupnik.de/snes9x.html Aug 02 11:52:02 huhu i get a new 22" screen ... Aug 02 11:52:07 this change many things ! Aug 02 11:54:26 ;_; Aug 02 12:13:42 hi Aug 02 12:31:04 python-tk anyone? Aug 02 12:31:17 apt-get install python has it as 'suggested' Aug 02 12:31:37 but it "has no installation candidate" Aug 02 12:31:51 don't think tkinter is available on the tablet Aug 02 12:32:21 is that a hangover from the upstream packaging then Aug 02 12:32:34 qwerty12_N800: was it mmc+unionfs that needed the case_ stuff or unionfs itself, btw? Aug 02 12:33:34 Stskeeps: just the unionfs. the mmcunionfs is a bunch of scripts for it Aug 02 12:34:03 k Aug 02 12:43:08 my new screen have a dead pixel ... Aug 02 12:43:09 in the middle ... Aug 02 12:43:12 lol Aug 02 12:43:36 hopefully buy it to a local store and the seller will exchange me it ... Aug 02 12:44:13 why is Aug 02 12:44:25 'catapults' on the list of banned items on flights? .. Aug 02 12:46:11 raaahahahahahahahah glade3 isn't really stable ! Aug 02 12:46:18 lost my modifications !!! Aug 02 12:46:19 grrr Aug 02 12:48:12 Stskeeps: so you can't you can catapult the pilot with a bomb and give him/her brain damage Aug 02 12:48:38 also, this is in cabin baggage Aug 02 12:49:56 speaking of baggage, now it's official: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/01/AR2008080103030.html Aug 02 12:50:30 bye ... returning my screen to the seller ... :) Aug 02 12:52:25 jott: Yep. Officially fucked. Aug 02 12:52:32 best thing is that they are allowed to share copies with "private entities" Aug 02 12:53:17 The funny thing is, media inspection at the border was one of the USSR trademark kinks Aug 02 12:53:40 Didn't take long, hehe =) Aug 02 12:53:50 RST38h: hah moscow should sue them for patent violation :P Aug 02 12:57:17 is that just in checked baggage, i wonder? Aug 02 12:57:19 jott: don't worry, local news outlets are sure to use this stuff for "no freedom in US" propaganda =) Aug 02 12:57:30 or if i am carrying my laptop with me on the plane, could they take it then too Aug 02 12:57:33 rm_you: no, personal inspection too Aug 02 12:57:54 RST38h: sounds like the local news have a point... Aug 02 12:57:55 they will take your laptop at customs checkpoint in the US, if they want to Aug 02 12:58:06 qwerty: Oh, that is the whole point Aug 02 12:58:25 qwerty: On one hand, it is propaganda, on the other hand, they have got geniune basis for it Aug 02 12:58:36 true Aug 02 12:59:37 it's isn't like western media treating Russia any differently though. Aug 02 12:59:56 yesterday on TV they said even phones and memory cards/pen drives are taboo as well Aug 02 13:00:06 any media Aug 02 13:00:29 actually, I got into this kind of trouble once at NYC customs Aug 02 13:00:43 I was surprised because this is not mentioned in the media you gave a link to yesterday Aug 02 13:01:03 it would be funny to travel with some of those old 5 1/4 floppy disks Aug 02 13:01:04 zap: if you google for it, you will see that they mean all the media Aug 02 13:01:13 zap: even pieces of paper with phone numbers in your pockets Aug 02 13:01:20 :)) Aug 02 13:01:26 bef0rd: Oh, in my case it was even BETTER Aug 02 13:01:28 it sucks but for once I'm counting on them to look at me as some white guy <_< Aug 02 13:01:45 bef0rd: I had a NOR flash chip soldered to a USB connector (no flash drive) Aug 02 13:02:06 oh my Aug 02 13:02:22 rm_you: They are prohibited from racial profiling, so they will anal-probe everyone =) Aug 02 13:02:32 haha, self made storage device Aug 02 13:02:34 bef0rd: So when the guy asked me to show what is onit... Aug 02 13:02:36 heh, yeah, but they still do it <_< Aug 02 13:02:56 I would like to see their face if you would have an old-style alarm clock with some chips soldered and lots of wires around Aug 02 13:03:04 bef0rd: I pleasantly told him that it is no problem, but I will need a TV, an outlet to plug my devkit board in, and a computer to make connection to the devkit Aug 02 13:03:16 bef0rd: Guy sucked it up =) Aug 02 13:03:27 zap: You better not try Aug 02 13:03:34 i am not even concerned about what they would find, but I *NEED* my laptop for my job Aug 02 13:03:43 zap: They will find a reason or two to screw you up for good then Aug 02 13:03:59 i cant have them taking it for months Aug 02 13:04:03 or even weeks Aug 02 13:04:25 rm_you: let them copy your hdd and give them to some private entity. :/ Aug 02 13:05:14 I'll use google maps method of going from uk to us and swim Aug 02 13:05:33 I wonder what they would think of some of the stuff I have on there O_o Aug 02 13:06:07 * rm_you visits 4chan /b/ sometimes Aug 02 13:06:54 at least, it is all on arrival in US right? Aug 02 13:07:00 btards :| Aug 02 13:07:08 so i wont have to worry about them stealing my N800 on the way to the summit <_< Aug 02 13:07:28 I bet some of the security people at the airports are /b/tards Aug 02 13:08:05 they will enjoy your content them Aug 02 13:08:09 *then Aug 02 13:09:32 http://www.truecrypt.org/ Aug 02 13:09:59 now, can we use the multiboot to install it? Aug 02 13:10:07 lbt: encryption ensures your laptop will be taken :p Aug 02 13:10:13 they'll want the decryption password Aug 02 13:10:21 read the page :) Aug 02 13:10:23 jott: even if it's work policy? Aug 02 13:10:32 jott: it is at my work. Aug 02 13:10:44 it will boot to a nice easy OS with innocent files Aug 02 13:10:55 Veggen: your work for the terrorists!? *scnr* Aug 02 13:11:57 http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=hidden-operating-system Aug 02 13:12:15 or it just boots a normal OS Aug 02 13:12:43 lbt: quite good idea, in fact, but *if* they discover something fishy, they'll never give it back ;) Aug 02 13:13:14 and if there is a truecrypt password prompt at bootup that *is* suspicious. Aug 02 13:13:37 no, the laptop boot sector is normal Aug 02 13:13:42 boots to the decoy os Aug 02 13:13:42 I think I'm never gonna bring my laptop to US without ensuring a) I have no sensitive data on it, b) that I have a complete/full backup from the day before I leave. Aug 02 13:13:55 however, the usb stick (containing piccies) Aug 02 13:14:00 has a boot sector Aug 02 13:14:22 and *it* will point the laptop to the truecrypt bootloader Aug 02 13:14:27 then that asks for a pw Aug 02 13:14:37 which goes to the second decoy OS Aug 02 13:14:38 good idea, until you forget the USB stick at home. Aug 02 13:14:53 or drop the laptop Aug 02 13:14:59 or, or, or Aug 02 13:15:05 paff ;) Aug 02 13:15:06 or they find the usb stick Aug 02 13:15:16 in your pocket Aug 02 13:15:25 and they decide to boot from it Aug 02 13:15:30 ship it via first class mail Aug 02 13:15:30 and the guards have the knowledge to boot with the stick in place do they? Aug 02 13:15:41 they can't search THAT without probably cause :P Aug 02 13:15:50 and as I said, which goes to the second decoy OS Aug 02 13:16:02 with 'confidential' work info on it Aug 02 13:16:09 lets hope they don't read maemo irc logs Aug 02 13:16:11 which you admit under duress Aug 02 13:16:16 of course they do Aug 02 13:16:21 :X Aug 02 13:17:03 anyhow, Truecrypt is probably best of breed, if you care. Aug 02 13:18:05 it's 'good enough' to get past TSA and to protect your data even if they confiscate it. Aug 02 13:18:18 They can't then extradite you for copying CDs Aug 02 13:18:38 I still think its easier to upload your sensitive data encrypted somewhere to the internet, and erase your hdd completly Aug 02 13:18:51 yes, seems to be the only way Aug 02 13:19:11 bef0rd: yes, that's an alternative if you will have internet access Aug 02 13:19:34 i like rm_you's idea :p Aug 02 13:20:02 lbt: i still think you can see the presence of truecrypt (of course not proof the existence of the hidden os). Aug 02 13:20:10 no you can't Aug 02 13:20:12 anyway, there are always ways to get data in and out Aug 02 13:20:38 read Schnier if you like :) Aug 02 13:20:47 s/ier/eier/ Aug 02 13:20:47 lbt meant: read Schneier if you like :) Aug 02 13:20:51 there are also a lot of places to hide an 8gb microsd too Aug 02 13:21:31 don't give them an excuse for anal probing... Aug 02 13:21:31 lbt: you can see a partition which has no real data on it => assume it is encrypted. Aug 02 13:21:49 jott: no you can't Aug 02 13:22:03 unused space Aug 02 13:22:07 lbt: you have an outer partition that is encrypted. Aug 02 13:22:24 it can be set up properly; it can be set up badly Aug 02 13:22:34 every intelligence will *assume* that the "unsused" space contains encrypted data Aug 02 13:22:46 that's OK Aug 02 13:22:47 unused Aug 02 13:23:12 if you tell them you used "truecrypt" it is OBVIOUS that there is probably a hidden partition. Aug 02 13:23:35 if someone who knows about truecrypt is talking to you then you are already in game over mode ;) Aug 02 13:23:37 (to reveal the outer partition) Aug 02 13:23:45 as far as delays go Aug 02 13:23:58 qwerty12_N800, lol, I was thinking in a watch, even a pacemaker, I dont think they will disassemble it :P Aug 02 13:24:55 I wonder about how I change the CPU frequency. Aug 02 13:25:03 bef0rd: hehe. a pacemaker is a bit extreme but i guess whatever it takes... Aug 02 13:25:04 Are there anyone who know about that? Aug 02 13:25:10 so i think this "hidden" partition under extorsion scenario is not very realistic :P Aug 02 13:25:20 http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=plausible-deniability Aug 02 13:25:36 seriously, read up on it if you are interested. Aug 02 13:25:55 your arguments will almost certainly have answers. Aug 02 13:26:17 lbt: seriously, it depends on what scenario you assume. Aug 02 13:27:08 nothing is 100% secure Aug 02 13:27:22 however this approach offers the current best of breed Aug 02 13:27:26 and *if* i expect data on a device and the person reveals the password saying it is truecrypt, it is obvious to assume that there is a hidden partition, no matter if there is no way to proof it. Aug 02 13:27:43 hence Guantanamo bay... Aug 02 13:28:30 your argument is "if they do something suspicuous then they are guilty - shoot them" Aug 02 13:28:38 yes. Aug 02 13:28:40 which seems like the US Aug 02 13:28:54 for example Aug 02 13:29:01 i suppose china too Aug 02 13:29:08 indeed Aug 02 13:29:23 however the problem is that the criteria you use for guilty Aug 02 13:29:35 encompasses too many people Aug 02 13:29:46 even for the US to 'disappear' Aug 02 13:29:57 s/US/china/ Aug 02 13:29:57 lbt meant: even for the china to 'disappear' Aug 02 13:30:04 (sorry, easy to do nowadays ;) ) Aug 02 13:30:42 OK - back to bootmenu Aug 02 13:31:37 ah, there we go. new mauku installed Aug 02 13:31:39 well all i say it does not really matter if you use a hidden partition or not if you are in some states. Aug 02 13:32:01 not sure i like the kinetic scroll, but thats a minor issue with the scroll bar turned on ;) Aug 02 13:32:19 the thing is, the approach will get you past the TSA quick boot check... Aug 02 13:33:07 does anyone know of any rules about partitioning an mmc card for multiboot? Aug 02 13:33:10 yeah well as i said, it's easy to get data in and out if you really want to. Aug 02 13:33:25 ie the first partition should be vfat Aug 02 13:33:36 lbt: i set it up this way, less trouble. Aug 02 13:34:28 lbt: what TSA quick boot check? Aug 02 13:34:44 lbt: I've never had to pass any such thing bringing my N810 in or out of the US. O.o Aug 02 13:34:51 the TSA ask you to boot your laptop to make sure it isn't full of semtex Aug 02 13:35:04 lbt: semtex? O.o Aug 02 13:35:13 bomb stuff iirc Aug 02 13:35:18 lbt: I've also never had to do that with full on laptops, either. =op Aug 02 13:35:24 me neither Aug 02 13:35:32 but they do it every now and again Aug 02 13:35:36 Actually, I had to do that /before/ the TSA started mucking with "security". Aug 02 13:35:44 I haven't since they started, though. Aug 02 13:35:47 possibly more nowadays given recent news Aug 02 13:35:53 Recent news? Aug 02 13:35:58 * texel has been in Tokyo for the last month Aug 02 13:36:07 see "the internet" ;) Aug 02 13:36:13 Blargh. Aug 02 13:36:32 Too, much trouble to look it up. =op Aug 02 13:36:36 s/,// Aug 02 13:36:36 texel meant: Too much trouble to look it up. =op Aug 02 13:37:36 (weird watching Japanese traditional kabuki on TV where they speak /mandarin/) Aug 02 13:39:23 texel: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/01/AR2008080103030.html Aug 02 13:39:32 jott: Thanks. =o) Aug 02 13:41:00 so, for multiboot on 8Gb MMC I was thinking : 2Gb vfat for data :: 1Gb ext3 Chinook everyday-use :: 512Mb ext3 Chinook test :: 512Mb ext3 Diablo test :: 512Mb ext3 2007 test:: 2Gb ext3 Debian :: Spare (not Truecrypt!!) Aug 02 13:41:16 does that sound sensible? Aug 02 13:41:35 do I need anything for the bootmenu thing? Aug 02 13:41:46 Well. Aug 02 13:41:52 Okay, so the plot thickens. Aug 02 13:41:55 I was worried about that. Aug 02 13:42:00 lbt: probably some modifications to select the partitions Aug 02 13:42:13 jott: how do you mean? Aug 02 13:42:24 Looks like I get to image my laptops, encrypt the images, and then wipe all equipment when I go back to the states. =o( Aug 02 13:42:28 I was going to pull the MMC to my desktop and partition there Aug 02 13:42:30 lbt: well just to have the correct menu entries :) Aug 02 13:42:36 gotcha Aug 02 13:42:47 the idea was to image the test partitions Aug 02 13:42:52 lbt: you'll need to add entries bootmenu.conf Aug 02 13:42:54 then I can easily restore them Aug 02 13:43:04 to test installations, dependencies etc Aug 02 13:43:19 yeah sounds useful. Aug 02 13:43:22 do I need a tiny partition to store bootmenu data? Aug 02 13:43:32 I was going to do a wiki page Aug 02 13:43:33 no it's all in the initfs Aug 02 13:43:43 where does that live? Aug 02 13:43:46 in the flash? Aug 02 13:43:50 internal flash Aug 02 13:43:57 jott: Big thanks for that link. =o) Aug 02 13:44:16 OK, I may want to make a bootmenu partition then with things to flash Aug 02 13:44:29 in the event of diablo upgrades overwriting it Aug 02 13:44:34 etc Aug 02 13:45:25 is ext3 the correct fs? rather than jffs2? Aug 02 13:45:34 yes Aug 02 13:45:49 jffs2 is for mtd devices. Aug 02 13:45:54 some prefer ext2 over ext3 for mmc cards Aug 02 13:46:18 isn't ext3 w/o journalling == ext2? Aug 02 13:46:49 lbt: more or less. Aug 02 13:46:51 [I always use XFS :) ] Aug 02 13:47:44 if you build the kernel module and modify the initfs scripts you should also be able to use xfs. Aug 02 13:48:02 nah - no real benefit here Aug 02 13:48:12 I want it to be generic Aug 02 13:48:42 anyway have you seen the mem requirements to repair xfs Aug 02 13:48:46 just add the xfs module to be loaded to bootmenu.conf instead of going for the scripts directly Aug 02 13:49:32 actually bootmenu.conf is an initfs script :P Aug 02 13:49:47 true :D Aug 02 13:51:17 btw, does this look correct? I get the framebuffer output but then the n800 reboots: http://pastebin.com/m7a3c5627 Aug 02 13:53:12 i may just end up duplicating lines in linuxrc and have flashfb as a "special" id Aug 02 13:56:38 lets just say that things are turning from silly to tragic with frightning efficiency... Aug 02 13:56:53 well oops on me, the log was scrolled... Aug 02 13:59:01 t_s_o: so are you taking about the US TSA/CBP issue? O.o Aug 02 13:59:09 yep Aug 02 13:59:16 Mm. Aug 02 14:00:07 The worst part of it seems to be that the populace can't do anything about it. =o( Aug 02 14:00:54 Despite the fact that the US is a democracy, we have about as much input to the decisions of our politicians as the Japanese have with theirs. =o( Aug 02 14:01:22 supposedly, japan to is a democracy... Aug 02 14:01:46 Right, they are, but in a different way. Aug 02 14:01:47 still, i was ones corrected for calling either that, as neither is a true democracy... Aug 02 14:02:05 Well, they're "representative" democracies. Aug 02 14:02:21 indeed Aug 02 14:02:24 A true 1:1 democracy isn't possible with such a large group of people. Aug 02 14:02:42 i dont know, i think irc something brings out the anal detalist in people Aug 02 14:02:47 And can arguably be one of severely diminishing returns as people vote in blocs. Aug 02 14:02:49 ugh, sometimes Aug 02 14:03:25 * texel shrugs Aug 02 14:03:42 Personally, I'd rather establish the first interplanetary colony on the moon, Luna. =op Aug 02 14:04:32 Defending it would certainly be easy -- just toss rocks at the invaders. >=o) Aug 02 14:05:12 heh, i could have sworn there was a sci-fi book that contained something like that Aug 02 14:14:23 t_s_o: there was. Aug 02 14:14:28 t_s_o: By Vox Day, I think. Aug 02 14:14:33 t_s_o: "Rebel Moon" Aug 02 14:14:42 t_s_o: And also by Heinlein, actually. Aug 02 14:14:55 t_s_o: "Stranger in a Strange Land", IIRC. Aug 02 14:14:58 i think maybe its the latter i have heard about Aug 02 14:15:07 Yeah. Aug 02 14:15:26 The latter has a computer on the moon get mad at it's occupants and attack the earth by throwing rocks. =op Aug 02 14:17:05 mikkov_: what is the difference in your port of lbreakout2 and Yann Benigot's one? Aug 02 14:22:19 texel: maybe it was "the moon is a harsh mistress" that you had in mind when you where thinking about a heinlein book Aug 02 14:24:08 it could seem that a rail gun on the moon throwing rocks at the earth is a fairly common theme... Aug 02 14:24:58 as for setting up a colony to get away from earth politics. didnt RMS talk about something that when writing about DRM and sharing? Aug 02 14:26:24 t_s_o: yes! Yeah, that's the one. =op Aug 02 14:26:49 t_s_o: Hm. I think so, now that you mention it. Aug 02 14:27:05 t_s_o: But I think it was for a demonstration of how bad DRM is. Aug 02 14:27:12 t_s_o: or misused copyright. Aug 02 14:27:16 indeed Aug 02 14:27:38 t_s_o: I wasn't saying setting it up to get away from earth politics, really. Aug 02 14:27:47 by setting up something of a hippie commune on the moon that shared media and ideas freely Aug 02 14:28:06 t_s_o: just to get away from this "terrorist" this and "terrorism" that shit. Aug 02 14:28:26 t_s_o: because getting to the moon is a crapload harder. =op Aug 02 14:28:33 well i would say thats part of the political landscape these days, so... Aug 02 14:28:39 Mmm. Aug 02 14:28:44 True enough. =o/ Aug 02 14:29:06 sadly i suspect that people like jfk are extinct these days... Aug 02 14:29:13 that bullet did more then kill a man... Aug 02 14:29:17 Mm. Aug 02 14:29:31 I guess I"m just sick of having my rights slowly stripped away without my consent. Aug 02 14:29:32 it's actually a basis of modern politics to uphold the fear of terrorism. Aug 02 14:29:41 And what's worse is... Aug 02 14:29:44 ...when I protest... Aug 02 14:30:00 ...the large mass of IDIOTS around me respond with, "what? You don't like to be safe?" Aug 02 14:30:11 My usual response is "FUCK NO IF IT MEANS LOSING MY RIGHTS!" Aug 02 14:30:31 Which just pisses them off, of all things. Aug 02 14:30:45 Instead of making them think. Aug 02 14:31:19 Also, IDIOTS usually equals TSA guys and most of the general public. Aug 02 14:31:45 I actually had a little chat with one of them on the way through the checkpoint. Aug 02 14:32:25 given the number of homicides in the us it's actually quite "funny" to think about the increased safety by stripping basic freedoms. Aug 02 14:32:27 He had no idea what the word "draconian" meant, and stated to me (after I protested about the 3oz liquid ban) that "they were going to blow up planes with liquids" Aug 02 14:32:27 http://www.stallman.org/images/brave-and-free.jpg Aug 02 14:33:29 My response was, "So 'they' is me by that logic, and I clearly do not have anything that would be useful for such a thing, as by your own search." Aug 02 14:34:22 sadly, just like no sane communist had a badge, no sane terrorist have one... Aug 02 14:34:36 Heh Aug 02 14:35:12 Yet they continually bandy about the "Terrorism ID badge" for all US citizens that essentially creates a national ID system to track /our own citizens/. Aug 02 14:35:28 i thought a beard was a terroist badge nowadays? :P Aug 02 14:36:32 Nah. Anything that makes you look like anything but Bush is the badge. Aug 02 14:36:52 "That child is a terrorist!" Aug 02 14:36:53 "Why?" Aug 02 14:36:56 ah right either him or a terrorist. Aug 02 14:36:56 can anyone help me with my usb-webcam problem?? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=209559 Aug 02 14:36:59 "He's smaller than the president!" Aug 02 14:37:16 "Burn her at the stake! She's a witch!" =op Aug 02 14:38:25 Eh. Enough complaining. Aug 02 14:38:27 Time for bed. Aug 02 14:39:08 g'night Aug 02 14:39:17 breakfast time Aug 02 14:39:22 Hhe Aug 02 14:39:38 Rice balls are awesome for breakfast, btw. =o) Aug 02 14:43:23 jott: that beard comment made me think of something i ones heard about a terrorist in israel. to get past some guards unnoticed, he shaved his beared... Aug 02 14:45:09 as for some kind of national id system, it can have both good and bad uses. and thats coming from someone thats grown up with one... Aug 02 14:45:14 Is this page still valid: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/UserSections/ ? Aug 02 14:45:37 I had the impression that non-standard sections were deprecated... Aug 02 14:48:49 zap: it's the old wiki and and old article... i think the maemo packaging policy lists the valid sections under user/ Aug 02 14:48:54 an Aug 02 14:49:02 sure, they are listed there too Aug 02 14:49:14 but it also lists a number of useful non-standard sections too Aug 02 14:49:27 qwerty12_N800: I wasn't aware of other lbreakout2 port, but now reading the description I have pretty much same changes Aug 02 14:49:39 mikkov_: Ah, cool Aug 02 14:49:55 jott: I would prefer for example zip/rar/unzip/tar/bash etc to go into user/Commandline and not into user/tools Aug 02 14:51:29 qwerty: I am still trying to get controls more touchscreen friendly Aug 02 14:52:24 qwerty: there is one mouse event i wan't to get rid of Aug 02 14:52:27 zap: i would say it's discouraged to use unsupported sections. Aug 02 14:52:50 hi@all Aug 02 14:53:13 mikkov_: great. I find lbreakout is a little awkward with regards to touchscreen sometimes Aug 02 14:54:58 qwerty: how? Aug 02 14:55:42 could somebody tell me more about the a-gps? how does it work? Aug 02 14:55:59 mikkov_: it can be a little odd to move around Aug 02 14:56:07 in the bootmenu initfs it says "If you remove extra stuff you may write to initfs and customize bootmenu." What's that about then? Aug 02 14:56:23 lbt: if you are on diablo, you don't need to remove extra stuff Aug 02 14:56:39 and, yes - i've read the fab manual )) just don't think it works sometimes Aug 02 14:56:47 the customisations consist of your own bootmenu.conf, utelnetd daemon and ssh server Aug 02 14:56:49 I want to multiboot diablo/chinook/debian Aug 02 14:57:02 lbt: if your flash has diablo then Aug 02 14:57:37 it does - I'll say no for now then - ta Aug 02 14:57:58 is this to allow pre-boot access? Aug 02 14:58:13 qwerty12: if you could describe a little bit closer, i will try to fix it ;) Aug 02 14:58:52 mikkov_: I'm sorry, I just can't seem to describe it. It may be just my imagination or my dodgy N800 touchscreen :) Aug 02 15:00:49 qwerty12: there is limit to 100 fps option which might have something to do with it Aug 02 15:01:37 Hmm, interesting. I'll switch to your build later and try out the option after the tablet's finished charging. Thanks. Aug 02 15:02:32 that option is available from options menu Aug 02 15:02:55 does anyone have a link to the most up to date way of getting mouse support? the itt thread is a mess Aug 02 15:04:41 s/thread// :) Aug 02 15:08:37 What's the codename for os2006? Aug 02 15:09:10 gregale? Aug 02 15:09:16 Thanks Aug 02 15:10:16 Jaffa: are you here? Can I ask something about mud? Aug 02 15:10:25 rm_you: here? Aug 02 15:36:33 the lgames have so far been quite high quality ports Aug 02 15:36:34 imo Aug 02 15:39:53 what is lgames? Aug 02 15:40:04 http://lgames.sourceforge.net/ Aug 02 15:41:32 It would be cool if they would use full screen resolution Aug 02 15:41:38 but otherwise, I like them Aug 02 15:41:54 * zap currently enjoys Metal Blob Solid Aug 02 15:53:19 does microb store cache files somewhere? Aug 02 15:53:34 what package has mkfs.ext2 in it? I thought ext2utils Aug 02 15:55:54 OK, I found e2fsprogs on debian - but it's not available on Diablo Aug 02 15:57:28 Anyone know either if a contact can be added to the contact list via the commandline or where the data for contacts is tored if I want to automate importing contacts from another source ? Aug 02 15:57:50 lbt: make one using mud-builder Aug 02 15:58:38 zap, I'm doing the https://wiki.maemo.org/Partitioning_a_flash_card process (+ https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card) Aug 02 15:58:50 and notice it's not in the repo Aug 02 15:59:05 even adding Chinook extras Aug 02 15:59:16 lbt: grab it from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/e/e2fsprogs/ Aug 02 15:59:24 interesting, mitter seems able to open a new browser window pr entry double-tapped. but the rss reader and modest fails to do the same... Aug 02 15:59:38 so its actually in extras Aug 02 15:59:47 qwerty12: at the same time I'm trying to edit the wiki Aug 02 15:59:50 zap: That's the SDK repo Aug 02 15:59:58 ah Aug 02 15:59:59 so _I_ could make it work easily ;) Aug 02 16:00:15 but I want to make notes about the 'proper' way Aug 02 16:00:44 and I'm not immersed enough (yet) Aug 02 16:01:27 (and actually, I mkfs'ed the partitions on my host so I don't need it at all!) Aug 02 16:10:45 BURRRRRRRP Aug 02 16:11:19 milhouse: are you there? Aug 02 16:29:05 "It would appear that the US President has been briefed by Phoenix scientists about the discovery of something more "provocative" than the discovery of water existing on the Martian surface." Aug 02 16:29:11 [did they find OIL?] Aug 02 16:38:15 RST: Where did you read that ? Aug 02 16:38:33 ok, I see it on slashdot :) Aug 02 16:40:58 RST38h: they discovered his brain? Aug 02 16:42:38 heh, its interesting how fast a comments status can change on /., first it was funny, now its flamebait... Aug 02 16:45:47 Grey: http://www.universetoday.com/2008/08/02/the-white-house-is-briefed-phoenix-about-to-announce-potential-for-life-on-mars/ Aug 02 16:46:16 Mango: It is either OIL, JESUS, or OSAMA. Nothing else will interest this administration. Aug 02 16:51:41 zombies Aug 02 16:54:05 Community kernels can suck my dick Aug 02 16:54:07 that's JESUS Aug 02 16:54:56 now where the fuck is my group management page Aug 02 16:57:04 aliens Aug 02 16:58:17 ah so they must have found jesus entombed in the ice Aug 02 16:58:28 or stuck oil Aug 02 16:58:40 or found osama bin laden. also entombed in the ice Aug 02 16:58:48 or they might have found the next Nokia Internet Tablet Aug 02 16:58:56 ;) Aug 02 17:00:07 those finn's must have discovered the transporter. Aug 02 17:00:18 nuke 'em! Aug 02 17:01:50 whaaat Aug 02 17:01:57 * jaska teleports to the bunker Aug 02 17:02:04 i'm just bouncing off conspiracy theories here Aug 02 17:07:29 Mango: Jesus in carbonite Aug 02 17:07:39 Mango: This matches both "Jesus" and "oil" Aug 02 17:13:10 RST38h: hahaha Aug 02 17:13:44 wtf? Aug 02 17:16:16 someone kick this tosser already Aug 02 17:25:30 Somebody kill him already Aug 02 17:26:15 fuck off Aug 02 17:32:02 *roll eyes* Aug 02 17:33:44 * Atarii sets mode: +b *!*@cs181102007.pp.htv.fi Aug 02 17:33:45 :( Aug 02 17:34:05 lol, who tf is this cunt anywayz Aug 02 17:34:16 heh, where is a op when you need one? ;) Aug 02 17:37:43 /ignore jones- JOINS QUITS Aug 02 17:42:04 *** Ignoring ALL messages from JONES- Aug 02 17:44:43 zzzzz Aug 02 17:45:05 aua Aug 02 17:45:07 Bach__J_S-Concerto_for_Violin_and_Orchestra_No_1__3-02-andante.mp3 Aug 02 17:46:49 jones-, you are being reported elsewhere twice, stop it Aug 02 17:46:55 *you've Aug 02 17:48:38 Cptnodegard, do you know any ops of this channel? Aug 02 17:48:54 hmm Aug 02 17:49:07 no Aug 02 17:49:26 * Cptnodegard slaps Toni around a bit with a large trout Aug 02 17:49:45 hes the founder of the channel so at leats he has access Aug 02 17:50:24 Cptnodegard, we need a op to ban him Aug 02 17:50:39 since staffers are now allowed to interfere Aug 02 17:51:01 *are not Aug 02 17:51:06 thats retarded Aug 02 17:51:07 grr Aug 02 17:51:21 he's causing network-wide issues so we will take some sort of action Aug 02 17:51:21 Cptnodegard, maybe he's using a misconfigured irc client Aug 02 17:51:21 freenode is bad engou as it is, they should at least jhelp with this Aug 02 17:52:03 Cptnodegard, we're aware of it - as you can understand, we're reluctant to just resolve things with force if possible. :) Aug 02 17:52:19 Cptnodegard, in the meantime, you're welcome to use /ignore - it should be taken care of within a couple of minutes, either way, hopefully. Aug 02 17:52:22 Cptnodegard, that's what i was going to say Aug 02 17:52:24 it'll be over in a couple minutes Aug 02 17:52:47 actually, he's just been forced to take a break for a while so he can fix his client Aug 02 17:53:04 good :D Aug 02 17:53:23 network wide issues? o_0 Aug 02 17:53:31 Cptnodegard, he's in several channels :) Aug 02 17:53:36 ah Aug 02 17:54:05 back to the topic Aug 02 17:54:19 i see qwerty12 isnthere, but does anyone know how hes running xchat on os2008? Aug 02 17:54:49 ok, i may now go Aug 02 17:54:54 * Ursinha waves goodbye Aug 02 18:10:07 Hi ! Aug 02 18:10:18 Hi! Aug 02 18:11:07 someone know if a registration is needed for Thursday ? Aug 02 18:12:51 Sorry, I don't know, but there's probably someone else here that does. Aug 02 18:13:44 But if you're talking about the summit, there's a link for free registration at the site. Aug 02 18:14:23 Which, double checking, it's in September, so that's likely not what you're talking about. Aug 02 18:19:46 lol Aug 02 18:19:54 i m talking about osim Aug 02 18:20:01 qwerty12_N800: Cptnodegard was wondering how you were running XChat on os2008 about a half-hour ago. Aug 02 18:20:03 sorry don't have said it :) Aug 02 18:20:37 mouser-: xchat is available in xtras-devel, isn't it ? Aug 02 18:20:39 yup i was :D Aug 02 18:20:59 according to maemo.org its 2007 only Aug 02 18:21:04 mouser-: heh. there's a chinook version on google and diablo one is in extras-devel Aug 02 18:21:25 qwerty12_N800: hows it working? perfectly? Aug 02 18:21:34 perfectly Aug 02 18:21:34 * RST38h uses xchat on diablo and it works just fine Aug 02 18:21:40 chinook version afaik Aug 02 18:21:45 properly hildonised etc Aug 02 18:21:59 nice. chinook version isnt in any repo? Aug 02 18:22:28 RST38h: tbh, chinook version is the same as the diablo one 'cept the diablo one was built under diablo sdk Aug 02 18:24:02 as a noob im scared of stuff sying "EVALUATION Software! Not for productive work!" Aug 02 18:31:24 Yeah, but as long as you backup frequently and know how to flash your device, you're probably OK. Nothing should actually break it beyond repair, AFAIK. Aug 02 18:31:29 * qwerty12_N800 should nudge pipeline to update gtk-gnutella Aug 02 18:32:02 Could someone give me a list of the default repos that are installed in Diablo? Aug 02 18:34:19 hrm, why am I getting in this state where I'm connecting or disconnecting to wifi or phone and I can't actually connect or disconnect Aug 02 18:36:07 nor does visiting offline mode help Aug 02 19:24:53 also, why did I kill the channel Aug 02 19:26:40 anyone know why http://maemo.org/development/documentation/pc_connectivity/ is borked? Aug 02 19:32:32 how so? Aug 02 19:32:53 are the instructions incorrect? Aug 02 19:33:35 hmm, I should probably diablo up my N800, shouldn't I Aug 02 19:33:39 when I look at it, all the 'pre' or command text is missing Aug 02 19:33:59 sp3000: be aware of the ongoing 'extras' issues Aug 02 19:36:26 its a pretty long page, what is missing? Aug 02 19:36:47 right at the top section: Installation to the Tablet Aug 02 19:37:06 oh, wait Aug 02 19:37:13 it's not displaying Aug 02 19:37:21 but when I cut'n'pasted it here Aug 02 19:37:23 it was present Aug 02 19:37:31 so I suspect a font problem locally Aug 02 19:37:39 let me check... Aug 02 19:54:11 Hello. Does anyone have time for some stupid questions from a newbie 770 owner? Aug 02 19:56:30 don't ask to ask, just ask Aug 02 19:57:33 All right, MasterGear and Virtual GameBoy uploaded to Diablo Extras Aug 02 19:57:51 Gotcha. First question. Is 'red pill' mode persistent across resets of the device? If not, is it persistent across installations of other software or do I have to go into 'red pill' prior to each install activity. Aug 02 19:58:08 no.no. Aug 02 19:58:57 Sorry? I have to enter 'red pill' mode prior to each installation attempt? Aug 02 19:59:29 no Aug 02 19:59:57 Okay, only once after each reset, then? Aug 02 20:00:22 yes Aug 02 20:02:06 Cool. Thanks! Aug 02 20:03:06 and one should not be using red pill unless its really needed... Aug 02 20:06:55 and remember to turn it off before GA finds out Aug 02 20:06:56 Makes sense. One shouldn't use lighter fluid unless its really needed, too, and likely for the same reasons. Sooo... Aug 02 20:07:19 How does one tell when it is really needed? Is it needed to install DosBOX? Aug 02 20:08:55 it is needed only if you want to install packages a end-user is not expected to install normally Aug 02 20:08:59 such as developer stuff Aug 02 20:10:19 Does Dosbox fall into that category? Aug 02 20:12:26 If you can't instal dosbox in blue-pill mode, you should try installing it in red-pill mode. Aug 02 20:13:16 Has anyone here successfully installed it? Aug 02 20:15:26 apparently, judging from internettablettalk posts Aug 02 20:17:57 I've started reading those, though the sheer number of them is somewhat daunting, they assume a level of device-specific knowledge that I'm still aspiring to, and they are frequently ambiguous as to which model they are referring to. Aug 02 20:18:37 Perhaps I'm trying to run prior to walking, but I'd love to have Dosbox running on my 770. That would be awesome. Aug 02 20:19:16 unless its on the 770 part of the forum, or from around 2005, one can expect it to be about the N800 or N810, as they have the same basic internals and run the same basic firmware Aug 02 20:21:19 It's in "software->gaming" which seems to cover all versions of the device. Aug 02 20:24:35 you may find this page useful: http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php altho its not showing any packages for dosbox for the 770. at least not on the last official firmware. dont know about HE ones tho... Aug 02 20:26:26 heh, seems my 2005 comment was a bit overly old :P Aug 02 20:28:01 ah, its pupnik thats doing dosbox for maemo. should have known... Aug 02 20:28:14 Ok, I have a drawing area with a gstreamer xvimagesink on it and it shows the camera image nicely. However, when the widget is partially obscured and gets exposed again, the video does no longer get shown in that area. Do I have to paint the exposed area with the XV color key myself? Aug 02 20:29:33 gst_x_overlay_expose() in the drawing areas expose handler does not seem to help. Aug 02 20:31:01 im guessing that rubybox will only work on os2008, so thats out... Aug 02 20:31:21 t_s_o: Thanks for the link. I'd seen the gronmayer repositories listing before, and it seems like a wonderful list of thousands of ways that I can get myself and my device into serious trouble. pupnik is indeed the one doing dosbox, but the install instructions seem to be written to an audience more knowledgable than myself. Perhaps I should take that as a hint... Aug 02 20:32:16 I *think* that Rubybox is merely a gui front-end, which i don't think I'll need. I've got some Unix and some dosbox on PC experience that I should be able to leverage to get the games running once the emulator is up. Aug 02 20:32:27 it probably means that you should thoroughfully educate yourself in order to obtain knowledge necessary to follow pupnik's installation instruction and install dosbox on your device. Aug 02 20:32:38 its not that hard really. its just that the thread on the itt forum have grown so long that while it probably started out with the 770 in focus, it have morphed into supporting the N810, without properly showing where the older stuff ends... Aug 02 20:33:13 are you installing the os2006 package on pupniks page, feingarden? Aug 02 20:33:39 RST: That's pretty much what i'm trying to do by asking these questions. Starting with baby steps... ;) Aug 02 20:38:44 t_s_o: The OS2006 package fails to install (as it did prior to my reflash) telling me that the libasound2 and libsdl-net1.2 packages are missing. As I recall, my previous efforts to install these packages are what led to investigations into red pill modes and my device losing sound entirely. (Mea culpa, obviously, but learning often involves mistakes.) Aug 02 20:41:28 However, I now see that both of those packages are included on the Minimo - X11-Common repository, so I'll give them a try again. Aug 02 20:52:38 hi Aug 02 21:07:40 I cannot boot my N800 when a 4GB SDHC inserted in the external SD slot(but I don't want to boot up from SDHC). But if I remove it out, and I can use the 4G SDHC card after the N800 boot up normally. Could anyone give me some clues? Aug 02 21:08:31 tried to reformat it? Aug 02 21:09:20 zap, well, but, what kind of reformat should I take, and what's the problem there? Aug 02 21:16:47 hellwolf: I don't know whats the problem, but if it helps, it could mean that something happened with the filesystem structure Aug 02 21:17:21 but its not easy to say whats up without knowing what you have modified in the OS Aug 02 21:18:10 I didn't change anything, but I'm trying to reformat my card Aug 02 21:26:19 hi all Aug 02 21:26:43 hi LuCkY1 Aug 02 21:27:33 i just want to say that i did get the n810 and it realy rocks ! :) Aug 02 21:35:36 * flo_lap likes the n810 too Aug 02 21:36:19 :) Aug 02 21:42:40 LuCkY1: did you own an N800 before? Aug 02 21:42:47 LuCkY1: by the way congrads! :) Aug 02 21:45:33 liri: no the N810 is my first IT Aug 02 21:45:37 iri: thanks :D Aug 02 21:46:40 i did install too many apps - its getting slow :D Aug 02 21:54:54 anyone knows why is gimzo calling to landphones free? Aug 02 22:48:55 w00t Aug 02 23:38:36 greetings Aug 02 23:41:29 Hmmf. How would you tag motorcar=no except goods delivery at 6-11 (but 6-10 on saturdays) ? ;) Aug 02 23:54:43 Somehow or other my browser has gone weird. When I start it it just puts up a message saying "Updating" for looooooooooong periods of time before giving up claiming an internal error. Running it from the command line doesn't give me any messages at all so I can't figure out what it's having problems with. Is there anything I can do to recover it before I reflash my machine? Latest OS2008 image in use. Aug 02 23:56:02 go in xterm and delete the browser profile from user? Aug 03 00:02:47 Git for Maemo? Aug 03 00:08:55 acydlord: I'll give it a try. Thanks. Aug 03 00:11:31 OK, I'm assuming that .browser is the browser profile. Deleting it doesn't fix anything. Is there anywhere else that this could have gone off? Aug 03 00:21:43 hi Aug 03 00:22:35 I wrote ubi image(created by ubinize) to the flash device.. Aug 03 00:22:47 after boot (linux), Aug 03 00:23:02 "df" displays invalid total size. Aug 03 00:23:24 I have 156 MB free spaces but the df displays only 114 MB Aug 03 00:23:43 it is different with UBI LEB size Aug 03 00:23:57 anyone has same exp? Aug 03 00:24:05 or How can i figure it out? Aug 03 00:24:41 * LEB size == total available LEB count Aug 03 00:26:35 hello Aug 03 00:27:08 hi Aug 03 00:29:00 that was exciting, my computer rebooted while i was in the middle of making a powerpoint for a presentation =/ Aug 03 00:37:59 anyone ever get the feed applet into a state where no matter what gesture you do from the resize corner, it always grows the applet one step right- and downward Aug 03 00:39:17 or it might just be a certain class of poorly executed gestures Aug 03 00:39:47 it's a bit odd that there's some sort of third option between yes you grabbed it and no you didn't grab it Aug 03 00:51:15 has anyone had problems with flash player breaking in os2008? Aug 03 00:51:38 pages suddenly think i dont have flash installed Aug 03 00:56:17 trev0r, if the browser crashes while flash is running sometimes it disables the flash component Aug 03 00:56:33 check to make sure it's enabled in the menu on the bottom right of the browser Aug 03 00:57:42 yeah that was the problem Aug 03 00:57:42 thanks Aug 03 00:58:03 :) Aug 03 01:49:53 Hey, I'm searching for a mplayer version with anabled v4l support, any Idea where to get it from? Aug 03 02:27:19 Please, help me. I don't know how to scale the CPU frequency of n810. Aug 03 02:29:20 step 1: get a scale that measures CPU frequency. Watch out, this part is tricky, I mistakenly got a scale that measures the frequency that I hit myself in the eye while playing halo Aug 03 02:29:40 (side note: it's 14 times an hour) Aug 03 02:30:01 step 2: place CPU on scale Aug 03 02:30:04 step 3: profit Aug 03 02:30:47 jihoon, it scales automatically Aug 03 02:31:05 so does my eye pain sadly Aug 03 02:31:53 my snarky comments scale proportionaly with my discomfort with difficult questions Aug 03 02:32:31 figuring that last comment out I leave as an exercise for the reader. Aug 03 02:32:40 johnx, I want to scale manually. Aug 03 02:33:01 johnx, is it impossible? Aug 03 02:33:08 jihoon, it's possible Aug 03 02:33:17 it's the same as a normal linux desktop using cpufreq Aug 03 02:33:23 jihoon feels that the browsing experience is too snappy, he wasn't to try to slow things down a little Aug 03 02:33:46 s/wasn't/wants/ Aug 03 02:33:46 Proteous meant: jihoon feels that the browsing experience is too snappy, he wants to try to slow things down a little Aug 03 02:33:46 Proteous, I actually leave mine clocked at 400MHz most of the time Aug 03 02:34:03 is that higher or lower then normal? Aug 03 02:34:38 Proteous, normally it scales up and down "as needed" but sometimes you just want maximum performance all the time and damn the consequences :) Aug 03 02:35:01 as long as one of the consequences isn't your battery catching on fire Aug 03 02:35:16 no fire, just shortened battery life Aug 03 02:35:22 I can live with that Aug 03 02:35:33 jihoon, echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor Aug 03 02:35:38 that locks it at 400MHz Aug 03 02:36:06 and replace performance with ondemand to return to the default setting Aug 03 02:36:29 That is changing cpu frequency governer. Aug 03 02:37:13 yes, but "performance" just locks it at the highest frequency Aug 03 02:37:14 I'd like to compare the battery consumption along to the cpu frequency Aug 03 02:37:32 ah.. Aug 03 02:37:46 ok Aug 03 02:37:49 Thank you very much Aug 03 02:37:53 sure :) Aug 03 02:37:59 Have a nice day! Aug 03 02:38:05 if you want to do something more complex, just look for any docs on cpufreq Aug 03 02:38:47 the cpufreq on the N810 is just the normal Linux cpufreq, nothing special or different Aug 03 02:39:22 yes, but I can't find the /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed file Aug 03 02:41:39 I'll try to change the governor. Aug 03 02:41:44 Thank you johnx Aug 03 02:42:03 hmm, /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed is only for the userspace governor I think Aug 03 02:43:16 ah.... Aug 03 02:44:13 n810 doesn't support userspace governor, does it? Aug 03 02:44:23 the hardware does I'm sure Aug 03 02:44:35 it's just not compiled for the kernel Nokia provides Aug 03 02:44:39 you could compile it I'm sure Aug 03 02:45:00 oh Aug 03 02:45:28 I don't have an enough time. Aug 03 02:45:44 I'll try to change the governor. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 03 02:59:56 2008