**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 09 02:59:56 2008 Aug 09 03:09:36 hrm, super tempting: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Linksys-SLM2024-10-100-1000-Gigabit-24-port-Switch_W0QQitemZ270261273592QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270261273592&_trkparms=72%3A1077%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1308 Aug 09 03:32:09 What in the world would you do with a 24-port switch? Aug 09 03:35:30 hook up a bunch of different boxes Aug 09 03:40:30 Well, duh Aug 09 03:40:40 But there's no way he has more than 10 of those. :P Aug 09 03:49:43 24 ports can shrink faster than you might expect. I'm using like 20 ports out of my 24 port :) Aug 09 03:58:30 Aug 09 04:03:00 Hello Aug 09 04:05:09 hai Aug 09 04:31:00 hey is the kernal flasher something that runs on your tablet or a PC? Aug 09 04:31:46 pc normly Aug 09 04:33:13 Well, there is a flasher on the tablet for kernel and initfs Aug 09 04:33:13 I don't think I will ever get rotation to work :) Aug 09 04:34:13 It involves installing a couple packages and a kernel. . . . Aug 09 04:34:36 I've installed everything it has to install and downloaded the kernal Aug 09 04:34:50 just get flash the kernal Aug 09 04:34:58 just can't flash it I mean Aug 09 04:35:09 fiasco-flasher -k -f Aug 09 04:35:33 qwerty12 or jott will put together a package to handle it all soon enough, Aug 09 04:38:55 hows screen rotation working out for everybody. i cant think of anything to do with it Aug 09 04:45:50 lol well I got it to flash the kernal but now it wont boot Aug 09 04:50:52 well its late and I need to reflash tablet again now lol later Aug 09 07:38:00 zap: are you there? Aug 09 07:46:45 yes Aug 09 07:47:52 chelli: wanted to ask something? Aug 09 07:48:07 oh cool, builder is clear from old cruft Aug 09 07:48:37 zap: could you please try to upload unzip and unrar-nonfree with increased version numbers again, because it is a little bit annoying that they are uninstallable in extras-devel, please see also: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3488 Aug 09 07:49:20 zap: especially look at comment #1 from Niels Aug 09 07:49:59 ah, thats why it isn't in Packages Aug 09 07:50:05 this sucks indeed Aug 09 07:50:22 I don't want to increase version number just because there was some bug in autobuilder :-( Aug 09 07:51:05 zap: as far as i can see, you uploaded the same version of unzip 6 times, you ot 4 times an ok, and i am pretty much sure that it is uninstallable sine it was built sucessfully the second time Aug 09 07:51:48 there were some very minor tweaks Aug 09 07:51:56 zap: it is no bug in the autobuilder, you should allways!!!! increase the revision number when you upload a package that was built sucessfuly before Aug 09 07:52:49 zap: in case of unzip, it should just be 5.52-14-maemo4 then Aug 09 07:52:50 I thought extras-devel was a special repository where you can fix build/compatibility and other packaging issues Aug 09 07:53:10 I'll use my own repository for this then Aug 09 07:54:28 zap: yes, local testing without increasig the revision number should be fine, but on public repositories you should always increase the revision if you make a change, no matter how small this change might be Aug 09 07:55:09 I was imagining extras-devel as a non-public (for end-users) repository Aug 09 07:55:19 but I see your point Aug 09 07:57:50 zap, not really, extras-devel is for developing and testing, but if a package is uninstallable, this hurts everyone who has your package installed and is using extras-devel, i also believe that a big number of end-users is using this repository too Aug 09 07:58:54 i thought extras-devel had to contain only installable stuff? Aug 09 07:59:24 zap: my opinion is that it should not matter if a totally broken package gets into extras-devel, as long as the maintainer cares and fixes the problem in a relatively short amount of time ;-) Aug 09 08:00:18 and even in a not-very-short too Aug 09 08:00:42 installing unknown packages from extras-devel is a risk on your own Aug 09 08:00:59 moontiger: yes, it should, but afaik there are no automated test that really verify the installability of a package before it gets into extras-devel Aug 09 08:02:11 im a bit new to this but i thought that if a packages dependencies were met then it should be installable no? Aug 09 08:03:27 zap: of course end-users using this repository should be aware of possible problems, but other developers should be aware that packages in extras-devel might be build-dependencies for packages from other people, so a broken package in extras-devel might also break building for other packages too, and this is a far bigger problem than only one broken package itself Aug 09 08:03:42 ok Aug 09 08:04:45 X-Fade: are you here? Aug 09 08:04:46 would it be safe to say that it is best to depend only on known packages or other packages that you know to be good? Aug 09 08:05:41 moontiger: someone may upload a broken 'package that you know to be good' together with your upload Aug 09 08:06:03 zap: right ... yes i see Aug 09 08:06:37 i also see how having an automatic checking tool would be tricky too as the target is always moving Aug 09 08:07:09 zap: yes, and ths is also a reason for increasing the reision numbers, otherwise it is nearly impossible to distinguish a package(-version) that is known to be goog from a broken one ;-) Aug 09 08:07:18 the best thing would be to upload your own packages, on which nobody depends :) Aug 09 08:07:33 :) Aug 09 08:07:53 but in my case unzip IS a package on which my package depends ;) Aug 09 08:08:10 isnt that getting towards the windows dev model where all apps are huge monoliths that include everything they need? Aug 09 08:08:59 no, it's just taking into account the problems that can arise because of the inverse model Aug 09 08:09:12 right ... of course Aug 09 08:09:40 but how can we stop someone taking a package that we depend on (and have even written maybe) and modifying it and re-uploading it? Aug 09 08:10:19 we don't stop him, we bug him until he gets it fixed Aug 09 08:10:52 or fix it ourselves i guess if it was from us originally ... as you say better to rely on your own stuff Aug 09 08:10:55 if possible Aug 09 08:10:57 well, packages might include all stuff they need to build, even if there are separate packages for it but at least in Debian this usually leads to a so called Release-Critical-Bug Aug 09 08:11:12 right Aug 09 08:11:55 and in debian gzip package depends in mingw32 %-O Aug 09 08:12:01 s/in/on/ Aug 09 08:12:01 zap meant: and on debian gzip package depends in mingw32 %-O Aug 09 08:12:15 dumb infobot Aug 09 08:12:24 nice feature :) Aug 09 08:12:42 I was shocked when I did apt-get source gzip Aug 09 08:12:57 really?? that doesnt make any sense Aug 09 08:16:02 zap: in Debian there are the so called non-maintainer-uploads (NMU) where developers are allowed to fix critical bugs in other developers packages, but as long as there is no defined policy for such things, it would not do an NMU, even if i could, because the other developer might not like it :) Aug 09 08:16:31 ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gzip/gzip_1.3.12-6.dsc Aug 09 08:16:31 (no defined policy for maemo) Aug 09 08:16:37 see the Depends: line Aug 09 08:16:48 (Build-Depends: that is) Aug 09 08:18:43 "patch from upstream to fix compilation with mingw32, and patch from Aug 09 08:18:43 Robert Millan to build a win32 executable if mingw32 is available, all Aug 09 08:18:43 to fix a preseeding problem in the win32-loader for Debian Installer. Aug 09 08:18:43 closes: #457867" (from the changelog of gzip) Aug 09 08:18:57 :)) Aug 09 08:19:08 so it really has a purpose :) Aug 09 08:19:14 Sure, Debian for Windows Aug 09 08:19:27 is Windows a supported hardware platform for Debian? :) Aug 09 08:20:32 I think if somebody wants a gzip-win32, he could do a separate gzip-win32 package Aug 09 08:20:35 zap: no, win32-loader is a bootloader to boot linux from the windows bootloader, from the description: "This package provides a win32 program that can be used as a loader for Aug 09 08:20:35 Debian Installer, acting as a more user-friendly boot mechanism than Aug 09 08:20:35 traditional BIOS-based boot." Aug 09 08:21:21 rather than forcing everybody who want to recompile gzip (even for ARM) to download a 26Mb archive with cruft Aug 09 08:23:59 zap: ok, i just googled it, win32-loader is part of a very cool way to install debian from windows, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H937zZidIZk Aug 09 08:24:10 so what :) Aug 09 08:25:10 zap: an additional source-package would mean code-duplication and nobody wants to duplicate code (at least quality-aware people should want to avoid this) :) Aug 09 08:26:24 i still wonder why xfce4 pulls in finnish phonetics. Aug 09 08:26:26 in debian Aug 09 08:26:42 Stskeeps: because there's a new way to install Debian from Finnish Aug 09 08:26:46 *cool Aug 09 08:26:56 (or from Finland?) Aug 09 08:26:58 speaking to it? :P Aug 09 08:27:09 dunno, look on youtube :) Aug 09 08:27:21 zap: :) Aug 09 08:27:42 ;) Aug 09 08:29:01 Sad, looks like Xarchiver/maemo release will not happen on these holidays too, despite the fact that I finished it half of month ago Aug 09 08:38:01 zap: so could you please upload a versions of unzip and unrar-nonfree to make them installable again? (if you do not want to, i am volunteering to test NMU's of these packages) ;-) Aug 09 08:46:03 wtf, why are my maemo contacts suddenly messed up again? Aug 09 08:46:13 i had them all named and merged correctly :/ Aug 09 08:55:00 what is that open source alternative OS that indt does? manona? can't seem to get the spelling right Aug 09 08:55:13 ah, nm, got it Aug 09 08:55:31 chelli: I want to try to bug X-Fade (for the last time, I promise! :) to do a repository reindex Aug 09 08:56:01 He's gone for vacation, isn't he? Aug 09 08:56:17 chelli: the same problem is with 7 packages, and I doubt the builder will be happy to rebuild all of them from scratch in two variants (diablo and chinook) Aug 09 08:56:31 oh Aug 09 08:56:35 is he? Aug 09 08:56:43 GeneralAntilles: from aug 14 he is on vacation as far aas i saw in the wiki Aug 09 08:56:50 Ah Aug 09 08:58:25 zap: the autobuilder was hammered with mutiple builds of qt4-x11 in the last week, i really doubt that rebuilds of your 7 very small packages would hurt the builder in any way ;-) Aug 09 09:01:30 i hope that X-Fade will be able to fix my problem with the autobuilder/repository before his vacation too, i am trying to get a new package (canola-flickr-plugin) into the repository since Tuesday, i always mysteriously disappears after the autobuilder built it fine :( Aug 09 09:02:01 or alternative, he could give us ze root pazzw0rd :-E Aug 09 09:02:14 :) Aug 09 09:02:14 *ly Aug 09 09:06:16 well, in my case i am now going to setup a temporary repository for my package, i really wanted to avoid creating new repositories, but i am a little bit tired of waiting for this to be fixed :( Aug 09 09:12:10 heh, it's funny - dschmicker managed to end up how to debootstrap on tablet with same method as i did :> Aug 09 09:12:27 (on ITt) Aug 09 09:13:04 He wants to make an installer too :D Aug 09 09:14:26 yeah, sent him a private message Aug 09 09:14:34 he seems to have worked out part of the sound problem too, like you posted Aug 09 09:14:54 private message as in "hey, good job, you're welcome to join us if you want", not threats ;> Aug 09 09:15:03 Cool :) Aug 09 09:15:04 Lol Aug 09 09:17:23 <``Cube> guys? do you like the new logo? Aug 09 09:17:31 the maemo one? :P Aug 09 09:17:36 <``Cube> yea ;) Aug 09 09:18:12 <``Cube> Stskeeps: ? Aug 09 09:18:22 i'm rather so-so about it, it's alright i guess - nothing really ground-breaking Aug 09 09:18:55 then again, i'm a computer scientist, i don't have a sense of art aesthetics ;) Aug 09 09:19:03 It's vaguely jesusfish Aug 09 09:19:04 <``Cube> Stskeeps: exactly - there were soo many other submission that looked nice, and even had something unique and recognizable with the ae. Aug 09 09:19:07 <``Cube> heh ;) Aug 09 09:19:24 <``Cube> I mean the flat variants are rather okay Aug 09 09:19:32 <``Cube> just the ae isn't that recognizable Aug 09 09:22:28 hi there. I have an "unable to create virtual..."error on my tablet but I have enough free space. any idea? Aug 09 09:23:21 befr0d, are you bef0rd? Aug 09 09:23:40 user__, Check if the mmc isn't corrupt, in unix, fsck.vfat (iirc) and in windows, chkdsk Aug 09 09:24:27 yep Aug 09 09:24:31 hi Binky. Aug 09 09:24:39 Big lol! Aug 09 09:24:41 Hi Aug 09 09:24:49 I almost solved it all Aug 09 09:24:51 qwerty12 is it possible to do that from the tablet? Aug 09 09:25:08 cool, what did you do? Aug 09 09:25:19 bef0rd, error is in this line Aug 09 09:25:22 , python2.5-id3lib (>= 0.5.1- Aug 09 09:25:39 Sorry, , python2.5-id3lib (>= 0.5.1-) Aug 09 09:26:06 yea Aug 09 09:26:08 user__, Which tablet is it? Aug 09 09:26:13 what should it say then? Aug 09 09:26:18 n810 Aug 09 09:26:44 * bef0rd checks his dpkg status file Aug 09 09:26:51 It has a character that is not "permitido" (how do i say it?) Aug 09 09:27:01 allowed Aug 09 09:27:08 It is a space or a ', i believe Aug 09 09:27:14 user__, if it's an N810, the internal memory may be corrupt: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18043 Aug 09 09:27:40 Ohhh, thanks, i didn't remember Aug 09 09:28:33 ok, I will read that. I maybe need a fresh full reinstall, my / has only 30m leftfree space Aug 09 09:28:56 Binky, ok, I see mine I believe Aug 09 09:29:49 do you want me to paste it? Aug 09 09:30:11 If you can, please Aug 09 09:30:37 ok let me get down stairs Aug 09 09:31:53 I have 770 and OS2006 if it's important Aug 09 09:33:34 I think its not but compare it to yours anyway Aug 09 09:34:13 Maybe some part is missing Aug 09 09:34:31 http://www.pastebin.ca/1096701 Aug 09 09:36:22 that's how the line starts with, right? Aug 09 09:37:42 Yes Aug 09 09:38:05 I wrote 1osso2 to see what happens =) Aug 09 09:39:59 you could also try to remove ', python2.5-id3lib (>= 0.5.1-)' if that doesnt solve it Aug 09 09:40:50 Ook Aug 09 09:41:30 Ok Aug 09 09:41:33 Now Aug 09 09:41:46 App manager does not boot Aug 09 09:41:59 try Aug 09 09:42:08 that dpkg command you were using yesterday Aug 09 09:42:37 Oh, just take three times more than yesterday to boot... Aug 09 09:47:12 "python2.5-id3lib (>= 0.5.1-)" is invalid, i believe it must either be "(>= 0.5.1)" or something like "(>= 0.5.1-1)" Aug 09 09:47:55 Ok. Nevermind. It is solved Aug 09 09:48:03 But there are more errors Aug 09 09:48:53 where Aug 09 09:49:24 numptyphisics package Aug 09 09:49:37 Duplicate maemo-26-icon Aug 09 09:50:30 no idea, can you remove it? Aug 09 09:51:00 I'm looking. Line 405... Aug 09 09:52:07 Ok Aug 09 09:52:19 i CAN'T Aug 09 09:52:44 how is that. Aug 09 09:53:09 duplicate value for user-defined field `Maemo-Icon-26' Aug 09 09:53:37 That field is like 40 lines of random numbers and letters Aug 09 09:53:58 I can't see nothing duplicated Aug 09 09:54:03 It's an png encoded in base64 Aug 09 09:54:22 O_o Aug 09 09:54:41 It will take time to figure where the hell is Aug 09 09:55:23 delete everythin Aug 09 09:55:27 you dont need the icon Aug 09 09:55:31 I mean delete from Aug 09 09:55:38 Maemo-Icon-26: BLABLA Aug 09 09:55:49 tol the last line of base64 Aug 09 09:55:53 to* Aug 09 09:55:56 Includin maemo-icon-26 line Aug 09 09:56:05 kill kill Aug 09 09:56:37 lol Aug 09 09:57:09 yes. Aug 09 10:01:02 Binky, you still have the status old backup, right? Aug 09 10:01:03 bomb, bomb Aug 09 10:13:46 hello Aug 09 10:14:02 I'm getting size mismatches from extras-devel Aug 09 10:14:13 for bzip2, unrar and unzip Aug 09 10:16:24 AStorm: it's a known problem Aug 09 10:16:43 what's the workaround? Aug 09 10:16:45 do you get that when you try to install them, or when building packages? Aug 09 10:17:04 installing Aug 09 10:17:15 you can just get the .debs directly and install them Aug 09 10:17:29 it doesn't make upgrade skip them Aug 09 10:17:38 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/u/ Aug 09 10:17:40 from here Aug 09 10:17:55 bef0rd, i have it Aug 09 10:18:29 hmm, xchat crashed Aug 09 10:18:30 zap: its chinook here Aug 09 10:18:33 from here: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/u/ Aug 09 10:18:37 yes Aug 09 10:18:45 I gave you the wrong url Aug 09 10:18:55 for chinook just replace diablo by chinook Aug 09 10:18:59 in the url Aug 09 10:19:07 it does dl them from there Aug 09 10:19:37 Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/chinook/free/b/bzip2/bzip2_1.0.4-2maemo1_armel.deb Size mismatch Aug 09 10:19:51 I know Aug 09 10:20:03 that's because Packages file has not been updated Aug 09 10:20:16 X-Fade: beep, beep Aug 09 10:22:18 need a workaround to make upgrade think they've been upgraded (i did install with dpkg) Aug 09 10:26:22 I don't think it's a good idea to do apt-get upgrade with extras-devel enabled Aug 09 10:42:11 is it possible to totally remove modest from diablo? Aug 09 10:42:34 zap: it usually works Aug 09 10:42:45 and I can rollback if needed Aug 09 10:43:04 AStorm: there are no guarantees Aug 09 10:43:28 I know that Aug 09 10:43:31 :P Aug 09 10:43:49 there are no guarantees if you add coreutils either Aug 09 10:44:53 or if you add sdk repos Aug 09 10:45:05 try bash from there ;-) Aug 09 10:54:31 zap: one from nittools works Aug 09 10:55:01 sure it does, I just want to point out that not every repository is sane to use for a upgrade on NIT :) Aug 09 10:56:14 yup :> Aug 09 11:05:22 does a background image consume more battery? Aug 09 11:05:42 i mean, in a significant way Aug 09 11:05:44 can't think why it would Aug 09 11:06:34 i mean, if the code is like "if (haveBackground) { foreach Pixel in bitmapArray: putPixel(..); } then it would, yes? Aug 09 11:06:45 if it does that for each desktop redraw Aug 09 11:07:06 dunno why it would be that stupid Aug 09 11:07:07 otherwise it can just do some hardware call to floodfill a region with a certain color Aug 09 11:07:47 i'd imagine it would have the background image anyways, be it a picture or not, in memory and just memcpy it Aug 09 11:08:11 mange, I agree that some applications are poorly engineered, but I doubt that the background code is actually that poor Aug 09 11:08:31 okey, nice to hear Aug 09 11:08:37 i really like my background image :) Aug 09 11:11:24 djeezus, my internet is slooooow Aug 09 11:15:40 mange: I noticed no time gain w/o bg Aug 09 11:36:10 what's the best maemo 'client' for mediaRSS? Aug 09 11:36:30 i want to get notices, or autoget a podcast Aug 09 11:40:13 hi everybody! has anybody an usb-audio device working with N810 Diablo release ? Aug 09 11:44:07 f0rtex, don't think so mate Aug 09 11:45:49 Bummer Aug 09 11:46:54 i can't see the problem if the device is supported by linux. Aug 09 11:47:58 it needs a powered hub though Aug 09 11:48:04 and the alsa driver Aug 09 11:49:33 ain't alsa drivers installed by default? Aug 09 11:50:13 you need the driver/module for the specific usb soundcard. Aug 09 11:51:35 are they in the repository or do i have to compile them ... Aug 09 11:51:59 i bet you have to compile them Aug 09 11:53:59 ok, thanks. Aug 09 11:55:15 and remember that the n810 does not provide the full 500mA, so you might need a powered hub (or power injected cable) as astorm said. Aug 09 11:55:58 what do you want to do with it? Aug 09 11:56:36 got one of those nokia ad-54 music headset controls Aug 09 11:56:44 attach my n810 to my hifi system :) Aug 09 11:56:45 wonder if i can use it with the tablets Aug 09 11:57:08 I used to do it with my zaurus c3000 :) Aug 09 11:57:34 f0rtex: uhm... Aug 09 11:57:50 can't use the minijack? Aug 09 11:58:37 sure, but you've the geek-effect with usb-audio ;) Aug 09 11:59:28 and you've only to attach one cable Aug 09 11:59:57 you could do funny mixing sessions with two soundcards - mobile dj set :) Aug 09 12:01:14 hm my usb soundcard seems to just use 100mA so it should work without power injection. Aug 09 12:03:03 I have a hard disk attached to my n810 too so I need definitively a hub Aug 09 12:07:24 mannnn Aug 09 12:07:26 Mann Adobe Flash: Integer overflow in Adobe Flash Player 9.0.115.0 and earlier, and 8.0.39.0 and earlier, allows remote attackers to execute arbitrary code via a crafted SWF file with a negative Scene Count value, which passes a signed comparison, is used as an offset of a NULL pointer, and triggers a buffer overflow. http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-0071 Aug 09 12:07:33 old but ick, ick, ick Aug 09 12:14:48 hey, is there a snes or mame emulator on n810? Aug 09 12:15:00 i noticed there are emulators for nes and gameboy already Aug 09 12:22:10 yes xmame. no real snes yet Aug 09 12:23:24 if you don't mind launching from command line you can try http://pupnik.de/snes9x.html Aug 09 12:25:30 oh Aug 09 12:25:34 thank you Aug 09 12:26:41 hopefully a fullspeed snes this year Aug 09 12:26:54 should have been finished in spring Aug 09 12:31:56 canola guys broke their youtube package Aug 09 12:32:11 it has ~ instead of - in the version string Aug 09 12:33:31 ~ is valid for version strings. Aug 09 12:33:33 ~ is allowed in version strings Aug 09 12:33:34 :) Aug 09 12:34:04 mhm Aug 09 12:34:07 noticed Aug 09 12:34:26 so they just weren't updated or sth Aug 09 12:34:56 drat Aug 09 12:35:45 new install of canola pulled in beta9-maemo1 and not beta9-maemo2 Aug 09 12:43:06 pupnik: snes9x should rule =) Aug 09 12:55:54 are you really able to play with the n8x0 keyboard? Aug 09 12:56:00 that sounds unbelievable Aug 09 12:56:14 what's the point of having such software if the controls are unusable =) Aug 09 12:56:33 othern than the leetness points, "look, I can do this and this with my device" Aug 09 12:56:41 use a gamepad Aug 09 12:56:59 and you do not have to play games where you need "fast" controls Aug 09 12:57:11 well, arrows work ok Aug 09 12:57:37 I should try to get a PS3 controller to work on the NIT Aug 09 12:57:40 and the 4 color keys are ok too Aug 09 12:57:50 * crashanddie adds yet another item to the whiteboard Aug 09 12:58:00 as "hukm" Aug 09 13:05:42 MakeGho: right now i'm playing with the keyboard instead of dpad on my nes emu Aug 09 13:05:57 so qweasdzxc and uiojklm,. Aug 09 13:06:05 gives me the diagonals Aug 09 13:07:19 sounds like a better idea Aug 09 13:09:17 bluetooth keyboard should be good too Aug 09 13:49:05 can someone reopen bug 1738? I've added a patch but I don't seem to have the permissions to reopen it myself Aug 09 13:50:09 create a dup :) Aug 09 13:55:49 considering I filed the original bug, I don't think that will go over well :P Aug 09 13:59:34 zap: plese, please fix your packages in extras-devel (see: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/chinook/abuse-sdl_0.7.1-1maemo1/armel.root.log.FAILED.txt for another reason why you should reupload your packages as soon as possible (bzip2 in this case)) Aug 09 13:59:51 uh-oh Aug 09 14:00:00 okay, looks like X-Fade is already on holidays Aug 09 14:00:49 zap: yes, might be possible, i did not get an answer from him on Thursday and Friday, last time i spoke with him was Wednesday Aug 09 14:01:02 nokians dont go on holiday. they are recalled to the mothership for re-imaging Aug 09 14:06:10 chelli: you wan't to play abuse? ;) Aug 09 14:06:16 wan't ? Aug 09 14:06:31 ööh want Aug 09 14:06:48 tha'ts enuff abbuce liek dat ! Aug 09 14:06:52 english is hard ;) Aug 09 14:07:01 mikkov_: well, i would like to have less easy-to-fix bugs in extras-devel ;-) Aug 09 14:07:33 non installable bzip2 is not in diablo extras-devel Aug 09 14:07:45 not? Aug 09 14:07:53 not Aug 09 14:07:56 mikkov_, you might find this interesting: http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSKUA75572520080807 :D Aug 09 14:08:25 to me it looks like qt4 compiling right now Aug 09 14:10:13 mikkov_: this is the problematic bzip2: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/bzip2_1.0.4-2maemo1/ and exactly this version is installed while building abuse-sdl ("Get:33 http://osso.stage.dmz chinook/free bzip2 1.0.4-2maemo1 [38.8kB]") Aug 09 14:11:01 abuse was on chinook autobuilder Aug 09 14:11:20 diablo version is compiling now Aug 09 14:11:23 ok, the it is this one: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/chinook/bzip2_1.0.4-2maemo1/ :) Aug 09 14:11:52 ntp needed bzip2 and it was OK Aug 09 14:11:58 mikkov_: my guess is that the diablo build will fail too :) Aug 09 14:12:13 ok, then the diablo version is fixed Aug 09 14:12:26 yeah but not chinook ;) Aug 09 14:13:17 yet another reason not to upload different packages with the same version number - you can just not distinguish the broken one from the one which is fine :) Aug 09 14:13:45 qt4 is building https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/qt4-x11_4.4.0-2maemo0/ Aug 09 14:25:18 zap: thank you very much :) Aug 09 14:25:26 np :) Aug 09 14:25:36 mikkov_: i guess you can retry abuse-sdl on chinook :) Aug 09 14:48:21 crashanddie, Aug 09 14:53:56 hooray, unzip is installable again ;-) Aug 09 15:10:04 lcuk, pong Aug 09 15:14:03 hello all, i was wondering if there was an IRC client for OS2008 Aug 09 15:14:09 xchat ? Aug 09 15:14:22 ^ Aug 09 15:14:38 blaz3, http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/ Aug 09 15:14:45 thank you! Aug 09 15:15:14 qwerty12, you coming down to London 2600 next week ? Aug 09 15:15:55 crashanddie, hmm, I'd like to but I'm a skint shit at the moment :/ Aug 09 15:16:29 work some Aug 09 15:18:19 Yeah, hmm. Hopefully, I can get some money. It would have been easier if my sister hadn't had lost my oyster card. Aug 09 15:19:12 qwerty12, get her to get you a new one Aug 09 15:19:36 qwerty12, can't you like ask for a new one, considering it's lost ? Aug 09 15:20:51 I never reported it lost :(. At the time, I was getting free travel for 2 years but then they reduced it to one year. Also, there is no point come think of for applying because I'm gonna be 16 in a few months and I may as well apply for a proper oyster card then. Aug 09 15:28:49 qwerty12, then get your sis to pay for all your travels until you're 16 Aug 09 15:29:43 * qwerty12 is pondering that idea Aug 09 15:30:11 do you actually look 16? Aug 09 15:30:45 yeah, otherwise I'd have lied :( Aug 09 15:31:05 darn Aug 09 15:33:29 MangoFusion, lol... qwerty12 doesn't look 16 Aug 09 15:33:36 MangoFusion, far from that even Aug 09 15:33:47 MangoFusion, as his nickname states, he looks 12 :D Aug 09 15:33:55 hahaha Aug 09 15:34:16 crashanddie, :P Aug 09 15:34:55 chinook bzip2 still uninstallable Aug 09 15:36:16 or is it noninstallable... Aug 09 15:37:42 neither Aug 09 15:37:59 what is it then? ;) Aug 09 15:38:00 not-installable ? Aug 09 15:41:21 is it worth upgrading to diablo from os2008 right now? Aug 09 15:41:47 Jsn0327, don't see any reasons against it Aug 09 15:42:24 zap: "Setting up bzip2 (1.0.4-2maemo2) ... Aug 09 15:42:24 /var/lib/dpkg/info/bzip2.postinst: line 9: gtk-update-icon-cache: command not found" (bzip2 on chinook) Aug 09 15:42:52 well what are the major improvements over os2008? Is the diablo release an alpha or beta release? Aug 09 15:43:09 Jsn0327, neither, it's a full release Aug 09 15:43:32 does a2dp work in diablo? Aug 09 15:44:04 Jsn0327, major improvements: no reflashing for next OS updates, the update manager is now "automatic" (notifies you on the home screen when packages are available for update), new email client, new browser backend Aug 09 15:44:28 those are pretty significiant Aug 09 15:44:42 Some could argue if "new email client, new browser backend" is an improvement Aug 09 15:44:46 Jsn0327: let's just say that it's a good idea to upgrade :) Aug 09 15:44:50 * aquatix is happy with diablo Aug 09 15:45:03 any report on the functionality of a2dp? Aug 09 15:45:47 Jsn0327: afaik nothing changed related to a2dp compared to Chinook Aug 09 15:47:44 that sucks. You would think that a2dp would be a pretty high priority for nokia Aug 09 15:48:05 Well it is for them with their phones. Aug 09 15:49:38 no it's for any bluetooth enabled media product Aug 09 15:49:45 chelli: damnit! Aug 09 15:49:59 it's included with choinook but it wasn't enabled because it wasn't complete Aug 09 15:50:11 i just figured that they would complete it before the release of diablo Aug 09 15:50:14 oh well Aug 09 15:50:28 chelli: what's strange, I have it in my scratchbox Aug 09 15:51:06 f*k, f*k, f*k Aug 09 15:52:07 zap: [sbox-CHINOOK_X86: ~] > dpkg -S `which gtk-update-icon-cache` Aug 09 15:52:07 libgtk2.0-bin: /usr/bin/gtk-update-icon-cache Aug 09 15:52:35 and? Aug 09 15:52:53 does bzip2 depend on libgtk2.0-bin? Aug 09 15:52:58 no Aug 09 15:53:29 but Maemo_Dev_Platform_v2.2_armel-rootstrap.tgz contains gtk-update-icon-cache! Aug 09 15:53:33 I double checked that! Aug 09 15:53:46 hmm Aug 09 15:54:09 What SDK are using them in the builde? I can't get that Aug 09 15:54:10 my scratchbox says it is in libgtk2.0-bin :) Aug 09 15:54:15 so? Aug 09 15:54:22 libgtk2.0-bin is part of SDK Aug 09 15:55:11 do I have to list gtk2.0 as a dependency for any gtk package then? Aug 09 15:55:24 autobuilder doesn't have about anything installed by default Aug 09 15:55:46 yes, but autobuilder is special, it just installs a minimal environment, which does not neccesarily mean the every package which is installed in scratchzbox is installed in the autobuilder environment too Aug 09 15:56:16 ok, where I can see the list of essential packages in Maemo? Aug 09 15:56:27 or a list of packages that autobuilder uses? Aug 09 15:57:23 autobuilder disk is full again :) Aug 09 15:57:50 or not.. Aug 09 15:58:32 zap: for libraries, this is handled by ${shlibs:Depends} in the Depends line in debian/control, so packages do not need to manually list all library in depends, but for additional commands you run in the maintainer scripts (post{inst|rm}, pre{inst|rm}), you must add dependencies yourself Aug 09 16:00:02 is gtk-update-icon-cache necessary for bzip2? at least it's not needed when installing applications with .desktop file Aug 09 16:00:08 zap, or you can call the command this way: "gtk-update-icon-cache || true" this way it will never fail, even if gtk-update-icon-cache is not available ;-) Aug 09 16:00:49 mikkov_: for .desktop files you have to specify desktop-file-utils in dependencies Aug 09 16:01:20 if you don't, this is an error! Aug 09 16:03:26 i don't use update-desktop-database and it's working for me Aug 09 16:05:15 that's because your package is not used in the autobuilder :( Aug 09 16:05:46 but i don't call it anywhere ;) Aug 09 16:06:09 maybe it shoudl be used.. Aug 09 16:08:36 chelli: uploaded a fixed bzip2... Aug 09 16:10:41 tell it mikkov_, it his abuse-sdl which build-depends on quilt, which depends on bzip2 ;-) Aug 09 16:10:44 if an application would have a default download directory, what would be the preferred path on maemo? Aug 09 16:11:09 chelli: what other packages do you use at the build stage? Aug 09 16:11:18 ~/MyDocs looks obvious.. Aug 09 16:11:31 and its the best choice, if not /media/mmc1 Aug 09 16:12:05 thanks.. Aug 09 16:12:11 zap: it depends, one of my packages build-depends on zip for example Aug 09 16:13:44 zap: i think i'll create a directory under /media/mmc?/, these files can be rather large (video) Aug 09 16:15:04 i think that /media/mmc2 might be better, this oe is available at least on every n810, /media/mmc1 is only available if an memory card is inserted in the external slot of the n8x0 Aug 09 16:15:12 shd: The best way would be to ask user, and default to ~/MyDocs/.video Aug 09 16:15:29 zap: yes, agreed Aug 09 16:15:32 shd: some people (like me) have already ~/MyDocs/.video a symlink pointing to the right place :) Aug 09 16:15:38 :) Aug 09 16:16:50 zap: i also have a symlink at home dir :) Aug 09 16:17:47 zap: we will make the download path configurable of course, but i'm looking for the best default.. i'm guessing mmc device is the safest default bet now Aug 09 16:18:04 shd: why not ask on first start? Aug 09 16:18:52 jott: i like programs that don't ask questions by default Aug 09 16:19:08 better than programs that break things :) Aug 09 16:19:34 well, it hasn't happened yet :) Aug 09 16:20:14 wow the flash exploit was amazing Aug 09 16:20:16 usually, when i install some program, i don't want to configure it.. just apt-get install program, and then i can directly use it.. sane defaults rule :) Aug 09 16:20:41 http://www.matasano.com/log/1032/this-new-vulnerability-dowds-inhuman-flash-exploit/ Aug 09 16:21:11 the only sane default would be .video as this is the canonical location for videos. Aug 09 16:23:15 pupnik: one more reason to disable flash ;) Aug 09 16:24:35 shd: then use ~/MyDocs/.video, that's what Nokia programs use Aug 09 16:25:00 zap: it's not necessarily videos.. Aug 09 16:28:25 lcuk, second pong Aug 09 16:28:29 shd: then use ~/MyDocs/.documents - that's where all "other stuff" usually goes. Aug 09 16:28:47 jott: okay Aug 09 16:29:12 my heuristics is: 1. find mmc device, use that. if not found, use ~/MyDocs/.documents Aug 09 16:29:50 i think writing on mmc without asking users is always bad. Aug 09 16:30:53 hmm.. perhaps.. i'll just make it ~/MyDocs/.documents then. the user can configure it to mmc if needed Aug 09 16:39:28 mikkov_: your abuse-packages seem to install still bzip2 1.0.4-2maemo2, seems that the package files have not yet been regenerated, otherwise it should install 1.0.4-2maemo3 Aug 09 16:40:18 chelli: yeah i noticed Aug 09 16:40:44 moo all Aug 09 16:41:30 is that current diablo bzip2 installable? (1.0.4-2maemo2) Aug 09 16:41:44 zap: a fixed unrar-nonfree for diablo is still missing ;-) Aug 09 16:42:01 did changed bzip2 work? Aug 09 16:42:05 mikkov_: i do not know Aug 09 16:42:15 I'm waiting some positive result to avoid multiple useless uploads Aug 09 16:42:31 zap: the latest bzip2 is not yet available in the repo Aug 09 16:42:50 here diablo bzip2 didn't work https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2008q3/001827.html Aug 09 16:43:09 sorry wrong address Aug 09 16:43:27 https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2008q3/001829.html Aug 09 16:44:00 /var/lib/dpkg/info/bzip2.postinst: line 9: gtk-update-icon-cache: command not found Aug 09 16:44:04 thats the old bzip2 package Aug 09 16:44:32 did you upload maemo3 for diablo? Aug 09 16:45:09 oh now it's there ;) Aug 09 16:45:18 :) Aug 09 16:46:45 waiting for repositories to update Aug 09 16:46:52 it would be great if my canola-flickr-plugin would appear in the repo as well, just tried another upload, same situation as always, package builds fine, but seems to go to /dev/null after the build :( Aug 09 16:48:34 canola-flickr-plugin has a directory but it's empty ;) http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/c/canola-flickr-plugin/ Aug 09 16:51:05 mikkov_: yes, i know, even the sources are integrated under http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/source/c/canola-flickr-plugin/ :( Aug 09 16:52:30 chelli: maemo is changing to source only distro ;) Aug 09 16:52:38 :) Aug 09 16:53:59 lets switch the base-system to gentoo and build everything on the tablets with emerge, the code must be faster then ;-) Aug 09 16:54:46 absolutely :) Aug 09 16:56:11 to bad that http://funroll-loops.org/ is not available anymore :) Aug 09 16:56:44 ah, there is a new version of the page at http://funroll-loops.info/ :) Aug 09 16:57:10 zap: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/abuse-frabs_2.11-1/i386.root.log.FAILED.txt Aug 09 16:57:20 zanshin: how's the deblet going? Aug 09 16:57:48 I've installed nit-env-stskeeps :) Aug 09 16:58:10 zanshin: and it runs without issue? Aug 09 16:58:13 It's pretty ok, but the device specs are not up to it Aug 09 16:58:19 *nod* Aug 09 16:58:28 it runs ok until you startup a browser :) Aug 09 16:58:49 menu's are pretty smooth etc. But don't run any applications Aug 09 16:58:50 I'm trying to setup multiboot but I can't get a 2nd OS image to boot Aug 09 16:58:50 well there's no browser automatically installed :P Aug 09 16:59:01 zanshin: maybe swap is a good thing to have Aug 09 16:59:02 I'm doing this : https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card#MultiBoot Aug 09 16:59:03 hehe that's why Aug 09 16:59:19 any suggestions on seeing kernel boot time messages? Aug 09 16:59:33 (no I don't have a serial console onto the solder pads) Aug 09 16:59:42 I want to try some lightweight apps and the matchbox environment Aug 09 16:59:43 mikkov_: ok, at least a new error message :) Aug 09 16:59:48 lbt: what are you trying to boot? cloned OS2008? deblet? Aug 09 16:59:48 matchbox runs ok Aug 09 16:59:58 cloned chinook Aug 09 17:00:07 i've got elinks2 now as a browser which is ok to Aug 09 17:00:14 I want to document how to setup a 4-way boot Aug 09 17:00:20 (see that link) Aug 09 17:00:26 lbt: is your bootmenu.conf set up correctly? Aug 09 17:00:31 seems to be Aug 09 17:00:31 chelli: progress, progress ;) Aug 09 17:00:42 I have ssh'ed into it Aug 09 17:01:03 and I've hacked the linuxrc to cycle round Aug 09 17:01:13 rather than just default to flash Aug 09 17:01:28 But it would be nice if there is a browser more orientated to tablets Aug 09 17:01:32 zap: you really should change the call of gtk-update-icon-cache to "gtk-update-icon-cache || true", this would solve the problems and you can remove the dependency to libgtk2.0-bin again ;-) Aug 09 17:01:46 lbt, I've got my initfs modified to show me boot messages Aug 09 17:01:53 Ah Aug 09 17:01:58 lemme see if I can access my ext3 through unix Aug 09 17:01:58 chelli: why not put a dependency? Aug 09 17:02:02 *windows Aug 09 17:02:03 I was going to ask you about that Aug 09 17:02:27 qwert: I installed your highspeed kernel package, how can I tell if it's actually using it ? Aug 09 17:02:42 It doesn't seem to have had much effect on anything that I can tell Aug 09 17:02:43 I've currently got my bootmenu set up so I can switch the framebuffer into automatic mode and get boot messages Aug 09 17:02:46 zanshin: so what do we have now.. it took us what steps to get through? debootstrap manually, apt-get install python and such on the chroot, postdebootstrap from deblet installer, wireless driver issues and X setuid problems? Aug 09 17:02:47 zap: because i believe that gtk-update-icon-cache is available on the tablets anyway Aug 09 17:02:48 cli apps adding icons are suspect anyway :P Aug 09 17:02:52 you said t'other day Aug 09 17:03:00 but I have noticed and this might be unrelated, that gps sync times are much shorter Aug 09 17:03:10 GreyFoxx, Dunno :D. The original patch has a debug patch but I chose not to include it because it adds to "dmesg" waste Aug 09 17:03:11 zap: and on the autobuilder it is just not necessary :) Aug 09 17:03:26 stskeeps: no wireless issues, wireless is fine, usbnet issues Aug 09 17:03:39 lbt, what happens if you run /mnt/initfs/usr/bin/fb_update_mode? Aug 09 17:03:51 qwe: k Aug 09 17:04:07 zanshin: well the wifi driver wasnt up to date with my modifications, atleast :P Aug 09 17:04:15 it gives me a usage message... Aug 09 17:04:26 good Aug 09 17:04:42 should I run it during the linuxrc script Aug 09 17:04:44 Ok, remount /mnt/initfs read write Aug 09 17:04:50 no no, fanoush has proper support Aug 09 17:04:56 ok Aug 09 17:04:58 zanshin: but sounds good - then we have a possibility to get deblet for 770 :) Aug 09 17:05:02 stskeeps I've removed xfce but now my screen keeps pretty low in light. Is there a daemon which I have to startup for that? It worked ok in nit-env-stskeeps Aug 09 17:05:15 mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs should do it Aug 09 17:05:19 I am now running a normally booted tablet - OK -just so you know where I am Aug 09 17:05:23 zanshin: dimming or? Aug 09 17:05:29 dimming yes Aug 09 17:05:35 done Aug 09 17:05:43 zanshin: dsme-tools package or /etc/init.d/dsme-something has values to adjust Aug 09 17:06:07 (I didn't know jffs2 was a read-write fs) Aug 09 17:06:42 lbt, in diablo, partition layout was changed so you can remount read write. If jffs2 wasn't, rootfs would be useless :> Aug 09 17:07:10 lbt, ok, grab this http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/modules-2.2007.50-2-custom.tar.gz Aug 09 17:07:47 ok Aug 09 17:07:49 stskeeps: if I do echo 32 > /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level it's dimmed within a few seconds Aug 09 17:08:30 lbt, go into drivers\video\console and extract the 4 modules there. Move them into /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/$(uname -r)/ Aug 09 17:08:51 zanshin: edit the values in dsme-tools init.d Aug 09 17:10:23 to be higher i guess Aug 09 17:10:30 done Aug 09 17:10:40 zanshin: it's like at 30 seconds to dim, 60 seconds to turn off Aug 09 17:11:12 zap: btw, it would be good if you fill the "Maintainer" field with your data as you made "significant" changes to it. Aug 09 17:11:14 lbt, now, edit /mnt/initfs/bootmenu.conf and include lines similar to this: http://pastebin.com/m45ec9816 Aug 09 17:11:36 jott: I wasn't planning to do initially Aug 09 17:11:52 OK softcursor bitblit font fbcon Aug 09 17:11:54 zap: then remove the icon stuff and leave the package vanilla :) Aug 09 17:11:54 and FBMODE Aug 09 17:12:17 jott: I cannot, Maemo does not include MIME types for archives Aug 09 17:12:39 and as such, it won't work with Xarchiver I plan to release Real Soon Now {tm} Aug 09 17:13:00 stskeeps It seems more like the backlight is dimmed right away not within 30 sec. Even if I touch the screen it doesn't come back. It's set on 30 60 by the way Aug 09 17:13:55 zanshin: odd.. try disable dsme-tools then, just add a exit 0 in the top after "!#/bin/sh" Aug 09 17:14:01 it may be different way to communicate with dsme on 770 Aug 09 17:14:45 ok - done that Aug 09 17:14:53 remount ro and reboot? Aug 09 17:15:21 lbt, yep Aug 09 17:15:50 lbt, after it's booted run /mnt/initfs/usr/bin/fb_update_mode manual otherwise the display will run slowly Aug 09 17:16:01 anyone ever considered making a initfs bootmenu that runs guess_fstype on each partition and sees if they have a /sbin/init, and then make it be in menu? Aug 09 17:16:01 hmm ok Aug 09 17:16:21 (maybe without _) Aug 09 17:16:28 ok Aug 09 17:16:43 Stskeeps, You should suggest it to Fanoush. He's a decent guy, listens to suggestions Aug 09 17:17:22 qwerty12: yeah, he seems like - i have a couple of suggestions that would allow for better debian booting too Aug 09 17:17:47 cos initfs booting is .. retarded at times Aug 09 17:18:02 Stskeeps, and if you can't wait, hack it yourself :D. I've got a tarball of the initfs with my customisations already applied Aug 09 17:18:35 qwerty12: i will possibly after my exams next week :P Aug 09 17:18:37 just like my Zaurus ;) Aug 09 17:18:42 cheers qwerty12 Aug 09 17:18:52 Stskeeps, cool, good luck :) Aug 09 17:18:54 lbt, np :) Aug 09 17:19:07 stskeeps: ow by the way, dillo is a nice lightweight browser to, but it doesn't do fames Aug 09 17:19:17 I tried it also Aug 09 17:19:22 is there any way to select the kernel? Aug 09 17:19:24 kexec? Aug 09 17:19:27 screen seems to work ok now Aug 09 17:19:39 qwerty12: it's because to fix a bad fsck'ing problem in debian, i need the initfs to mount the fs readonly at first.. i know i can edit this in bootmenu.conf, but normal people don't do that.. Aug 09 17:19:40 or doesn't it matter? Aug 09 17:19:59 lbt, no :(. Fanoush said he was working on kexec a long while back. Aug 09 17:20:43 Stskeeps, Ah. Hmm, I can see why that be implented by fanoush Aug 09 17:25:33 zap: wouldn't it make much more sense to create a package with a freedesktop.org.xml? maybe even an updated shared-mime-info? Aug 09 17:26:01 i mean the bzip2 executable is not really related to the mimetype... Aug 09 17:27:28 hmm, "cat EXEC format error".... any ideas? Aug 09 17:27:31 anyone know of any partition recovery tool for windows? missus has killed her partition table (followup to the events earlier in the week) Aug 09 17:27:55 there's a bootable rescue CD called trinity Aug 09 17:28:06 which is oriented towards windows recovery Aug 09 17:28:29 well technically windows is booting (from the older partition on other disk) Aug 09 17:28:38 and there's a disk scanner that scans for partition identifiers to try and guess partitions Aug 09 17:28:41 it got copied to a new drive about 12 months ago Aug 09 17:28:52 cool, ill have a look Aug 09 17:28:58 and i think if at all it would make sense to have the mime info in the libbz2 package. Aug 09 17:30:45 * lcuk had just started to break everything as well. Aug 09 17:31:01 is undertaking a massive reorganisation Aug 09 17:43:16 KILL KILL Aug 09 17:44:21 pussycat? Aug 09 17:44:35 sex on wheels Aug 09 17:58:03 jott: I was thinking about that, but it's not my concern to build system-wide packages for ITOS... and if Nokia haven't bothered to make a freedesktop.xml system-wide package, why should I? Aug 09 17:58:19 Besides, it just looks logical that every program describes the file types it works with Aug 09 17:58:34 by the way, Debian packages contain mime info files, just in a different format (?) Aug 09 18:09:36 FWIW: https://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting Aug 09 18:09:56 zap: which debian console cli app contains an icon?! Aug 09 18:10:16 no icons, but MIME type definitions Aug 09 18:10:24 icons are just for file manager Aug 09 18:11:55 zap: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/mime-policy/ch2.html Aug 09 18:12:30 aha Aug 09 18:12:35 if [ -x, that is Aug 09 18:14:33 i still think it would be wise to have the freedesktop mime defintion instead of copying the same info into more or less related packages... Aug 09 18:32:41 lbt, :) thanks ive got the partition back, just waiting for missus to get back with memory stick to backup to Aug 09 18:40:45 lcuk: good to hear :) Aug 09 18:44:31 lbt, indeed it is, she was skitsing because the only backup i had of her sims was last time we updated (over a month ago) Aug 09 18:45:06 tsk tsk Aug 09 18:45:30 losing the little woman's little people would be bad Aug 09 18:46:12 she shouts at me when i lock me in the swimming pool n stuff :D i am banned from messing with it Aug 09 18:46:45 quite right too Aug 09 18:50:29 hmm - OK, my boot is crashing at the pivot_root - why would that be? As soon as pivot_root has run I get 'Exec format error' msgs Aug 09 18:51:07 lbt, guessing you have exec format errors Aug 09 18:51:18 you think? Aug 09 18:51:25 :D Aug 09 18:52:06 I guess the new / is duff in some way... Aug 09 18:52:25 hmm, I wonder if chrooting to it will help.... Aug 09 18:54:20 ooh... chroot /mnt/chinook/ /bin/sh.... chroot: cannot execute /bin/sh: Exec format error Aug 09 18:55:54 unix/win problem? crlf thingy Aug 09 18:56:11 doubt it Aug 09 18:56:23 I don't have _that_ OS installed anywhere... :) Aug 09 18:56:41 (apart from my work laptop - ) Aug 09 18:57:18 I copied the files using the script here https://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting Aug 09 18:57:28 brb Aug 09 18:59:36 "I'm trying, honey, I just can't get out of my own way." - George, from "Shampoo" Aug 09 19:09:50 anyone using jaiku here? Aug 09 19:10:39 <---trying to find an invite. It's closed for registration. I can wait until they (perhaps) find that they have room for me, or I can have someone invite me... Aug 09 19:11:08 I have a plan to start using it for openstreetmap. It'd be perfect for colloboration, I think :) Aug 09 19:16:36 Does anyone know how to stop 2008he from freezing up on the 770? Aug 09 19:17:02 when does it freeze up Brenduh ? Aug 09 19:17:18 when I go to type a url in the address bar Aug 09 19:17:54 I tap and the keyboard doesn't come up. It freezes there Aug 09 19:19:11 do you already have a wifi connection when you bring up the browser? Aug 09 19:19:16 yes Aug 09 19:20:05 I'm not sure if the patches installed. I used the nokia software to update it. Aug 09 19:20:42 does the keyboard work from other locations? Aug 09 19:20:56 yes, I used it to type my wifi passwords in Aug 09 19:21:27 is this from the very front page of the browser - without any flash etc messing thingsu p Aug 09 19:21:52 google is my start page. it says home.html so whatever is default Aug 09 19:22:59 does the keyboard come up if you press the search box Aug 09 19:23:08 didn't try that let me check Aug 09 19:25:16 sorry it's very very slow Aug 09 19:25:28 Brenduh: did you add swap? i think 2008he on 770 does not really work without it. Aug 09 19:25:55 I don't think so. Not if it doesn't come with it Aug 09 19:26:02 enable it then. Aug 09 19:26:13 should be in control panel somewhere. Aug 09 19:26:26 ok, I'm froze up again. lol I'll try just as soon as I can Aug 09 19:26:41 it can do much if ram is full :) Aug 09 19:27:04 does 770 have less SDRAM than the 8x0? Aug 09 19:27:06 i have a 1 gig card in there, is there a way for it to use that? Aug 09 19:27:10 lcuk: 64mb Aug 09 19:27:14 ahhh Aug 09 19:27:26 Brenduh, thats what the swap is for Aug 09 19:27:34 Brenduh: yes i think the swap thingy should ask you. Aug 09 19:27:42 ahh thanks. ok as soon as I can boot up I'll try that lol Aug 09 19:27:50 yeah it does act like a memory problem Aug 09 19:28:30 Brenduh, if you havent tried it, you might find the 2007he is a bit more stable from what i hear Aug 09 19:28:48 but 2008 is more shiny :) Aug 09 19:29:03 * lcuk imagines running 2009 on n8x0 Aug 09 19:29:13 I don't know much about the software (can't tell huh?) I was hoping to get something that would run youtube and skype Aug 09 19:29:37 * jott hands lcuk the flux capacitor Aug 09 19:30:03 heh :D flux capacitor visualisation for liqbase Aug 09 19:30:22 Brenduh: i think chances are low that you can use youtube with flash Aug 09 19:30:27 it barely works on the n8x0 Aug 09 19:30:44 but you can try canola/mytube. Aug 09 19:30:50 ahh ok. Well I rarely use this so I don't mind if I have to keep uninstalling Aug 09 19:30:55 skype should work i assume. Aug 09 19:31:04 it won't let me choose more than 64 meg ram Aug 09 19:32:10 lcuk: i would vote for flux capacitor virtualization instead of plain visualization :) Aug 09 19:34:10 ok 2007 is more stable? Aug 09 19:40:12 From the "I told you so" files of pupnik: "Skype "Back Door" for Eavesdropping Revealed" http://nestmannblog.sovereignsociety.com/2008/08/skype-back-door.html Aug 09 19:43:21 "Zfone is a new secure (open source) VoIP phone software product which lets you make encrypted phone calls over the Internet. Its principal designer is Phil Zimmermann, the creator of PGP, the most widely used email encryption software in the world. Zfone uses a new protocol called ZRTP, which has a better architecture than the other approaches to secure VoIP." http://zfoneproject.com/ Aug 09 19:43:54 I'm not married to skype but I thought it was the only one that worked with the nokia Aug 09 19:45:04 jott: problem is, it's not the same info Aug 09 19:48:10 Brenduh: there's also 'gizmo' voip, and iirc some other alternative Aug 09 19:48:28 i'm curious if anyone in maemo knows about better alternatives, or zfone specificially Aug 09 19:48:32 ahh ok thanks Aug 09 19:49:16 Gizmo/sipphone.com + rtcomm is the way to do VoIP, in my opinion. Aug 09 19:49:37 just finshed installing 07, we'll see if that works better Aug 09 19:50:49 ty GeneralAntilles. your general knowledge of tablets is vast. Aug 09 19:51:34 Only because I waste all of my time with them. :P ;) Aug 09 19:53:10 much better, thank you for the info! Aug 09 19:55:14 The rtcomm beta has a preset for Gizmo Aug 09 19:55:21 Which makes adding an account for it a little easier Aug 09 19:55:35 but if you don't want to install the beta, just remember "proxy01.sipphone.com" Aug 09 19:56:58 lbt, thanks for splitting, that works a lot better. Aug 09 19:58:00 hm. CAL. how much stuff can you store in --root-device without it splitting open? Aug 09 19:59:46 thanks, GeneralAntilles: saved Aug 09 20:00:03 thanks again for your help Aug 09 20:00:14 do you have any recommendation for a remote client to a music server (PC attached to home stereo)? Aug 09 20:00:29 so i can use tablet as a remote to pick /play music Aug 09 20:00:47 was looking at xmms2 on the PC and a networkable client for the tablet Aug 09 20:01:05 qt4 failed again ;) (bzip2) Aug 09 20:01:17 mpd + mmpc Aug 09 20:01:33 Or some other mpd client. Aug 09 20:01:46 interesting, thanks again Aug 09 20:01:56 http://mmpc.garage.maemo.org/ Aug 09 20:02:45 I'm really thinking a simplification and slimming-down of maemo.org would be useful for the redesign. Aug 09 20:03:04 odd quote of the day.. , from /dev/mtd0: "Yup, there it is. Stand by for some Linux pleasure. Aug 09 20:10:41 * GeneralAntilles would like to figure out what to do about the Internet Tablet OS -> Maemo changeover on wikipedia. . . . Aug 09 20:16:10 I don't think qgil really understood my question when I asked on the wiki. Aug 09 20:17:46 then restate the question perhaps Aug 09 20:18:10 Tried and failed again Aug 09 20:18:15 Then gave up Aug 09 20:18:20 Now he's on vacation. ;) Aug 09 20:20:29 well earned i'm sure Aug 09 20:20:53 Quite Aug 09 20:46:13 The death match on Wednesday is still on! =) Aug 09 20:51:00 zap: now bzip2 seems to be working :) Aug 09 20:51:10 surprise :( Aug 09 20:51:29 zap: what's the difference? and if there is one is it really necessary to differ from the "officially sanctioned" mime definitions?! Aug 09 20:52:06 jott: every package provides mime types for used file format, what's unclear here? Aug 09 20:52:34 zap: wrong Aug 09 20:53:27 zap: that would imply conflicting files when two packages support the same mime types. Aug 09 20:53:56 (both with the same content and the same file location) Aug 09 20:54:29 and? Aug 09 20:54:34 that's why there is a "SHARED-mime-info" for all basic mime types. Aug 09 20:54:40 update-mime-types cope with this fine, don't worry Aug 09 20:54:44 no Aug 09 20:54:45 wrong Aug 09 20:54:47 yes Aug 09 20:54:55 thats why mime definitions have a priority Aug 09 20:56:57 ok, put it this way. how many debian packages provide mime types? Aug 09 20:57:27 how many of them provide an extra desktop file so it can actually handle the types? Aug 09 20:57:39 I have not counted, but found many Aug 09 20:57:48 about 10-20 maybe Aug 09 20:58:14 (which do not handle the type) Aug 09 20:58:23 the shared-mime-info provides nearly all of them. Aug 09 20:58:59 shared-mime-info provides nothing Aug 09 20:59:26 do dpkg -L shared-mime-info before saying this Aug 09 20:59:35 yeah i see that maemo s-m-i sucks Aug 09 20:59:44 because it's from 1999 or so :) Aug 09 20:59:58 woo 1999 :P Aug 09 21:00:39 that's why i suggested to provide a recent freedesktop based s-m-i (maybe s-m-i-freedesktop) Aug 09 21:01:11 no, its because Nokia take the decision (and I can understand why) to not include the whole 1Mb freedesktop.xml in the default distro Aug 09 21:01:30 and as far as I understand their approach, every applications carries his MIME types with it Aug 09 21:01:38 you mean MBs of storage don't grow on trees? Aug 09 21:01:39 and thats what I'm trying to follow Aug 09 21:01:54 I mean NITs do everything to save space Aug 09 21:03:43 but bzip2 does not acctually handle the mime type from a desktop perspective. Aug 09 21:04:50 and tar does not provide a handler from desktop perspective Aug 09 21:05:00 and neverless, the debian tar package contains the mime type definition Aug 09 21:05:26 wait, gentlemen, what are you trying to do? Aug 09 21:05:46 zap: well it's mime type actually binds an action. Aug 09 21:05:56 I am looking at your discussion and it sounds like there is already a way to do what you want Aug 09 21:06:02 it's not a type defintion Aug 09 21:06:27 jott: MIME type definitions don't define actions Aug 09 21:06:32 RST38h: it's more a design decision Aug 09 21:06:40 application/x-tar; /bin/tar tvf -; print=/bin/tar tvf - | print text/plain:-; copiousoutput Aug 09 21:06:43 application/x-gtar; /bin/tar tvzf -; print=/bin/tar tvzf - | print text/plain:-; copiousoutput Aug 09 21:06:51 that's what's in your tar "mime type" Aug 09 21:06:55 jott: There is a directory with mime definitions and there is a directory with .desktop files Aug 09 21:07:08 RST38h: yes. Aug 09 21:07:11 jott: A mime definition simply says "file with this extension or content has this type" Aug 09 21:07:24 jott: The .desktop file says "this application supports these mime types" Aug 09 21:07:26 yes Aug 09 21:07:27 right Aug 09 21:07:48 my point is, an application that provides a mimetype *should* also provide the desktop Aug 09 21:07:59 oh...not necessarily Aug 09 21:08:20 what if there are multiple applications for a type (let us say .pdf) Aug 09 21:08:50 OR I may decide to add a mime type but not support it in the current app version Aug 09 21:08:50 then we have a problem when there is no shared-mime-info Aug 09 21:09:01 well actually not. Aug 09 21:09:03 what problem? Aug 09 21:09:49 ok, to rephrase it. who should provide mime types? Aug 09 21:10:05 and who? Aug 09 21:11:00 in best case, a shared mime info given by the freedesktop standards. Aug 09 21:11:18 whoever has intention to access files of these types Aug 09 21:11:28 or, in case of a single application, it should in a best case also provide the desktop Aug 09 21:11:57 RST38h: so it clutters? Aug 09 21:12:17 like 20 apps handling the same type should all put the same mime info in there? Aug 09 21:12:36 or not even handling them from a desktop view Aug 09 21:12:37 like I said, update-mime-types can cope with this Aug 09 21:12:42 sure Aug 09 21:12:50 it is *designed* to see several xml files that define same MIME info Aug 09 21:12:53 i never said it would not work. Aug 09 21:13:17 jott: it may Aug 09 21:13:22 allright, look at the existing xml files in /usr/share/mime/packages/ Aug 09 21:13:35 there is no problem with it Aug 09 21:13:36 they are all provided by some separate package that handles the respective format Aug 09 21:13:52 it is quite possible that multiple apps will be able to handle a type Aug 09 21:14:21 RST38h: sure. my design question was, should all clutter mime or should one promote the official freedesktop standard. Aug 09 21:14:35 why you call that 'clutter'? Aug 09 21:15:14 probably the first Aug 09 21:15:31 .. ok.. Aug 09 21:15:36 because MIME has always assumed ability to add new private types Aug 09 21:15:38 besides, my approach is to provide not only a MIME type, but icons for this file type Aug 09 21:15:46 if you only follow freedesktop you can't do that Aug 09 21:15:51 and thats will be a lot more than 1Mb... if it provides them all Aug 09 21:16:26 RST38h: sure. but those actually IN there? for new unsupported types thats perfectly fine. Aug 09 21:16:51 anyway. Aug 09 21:16:59 we disagree and i don't think we will agree. Aug 09 21:17:05 it's ok. Aug 09 21:17:09 i accept your opinion. Aug 09 21:19:24 jott: well, having a default set of types probably wouldn't harm Aug 09 21:20:43 But I do not see this as a very important feature, more like a neat thing to have Aug 09 21:21:44 RST38h: yeah well, it's actually already there in the freedesktop.org.xml just needs to be put in place ;) Aug 09 21:23:21 if it takes a lot of space in flash and/or takes long time to parse when loading, then it is a problem Aug 09 21:23:36 I have no idea why Nokia hasn't used it though Aug 09 21:23:50 jffs2 should compress it fairly well. Aug 09 21:24:18 RST38h: did you talk to leonid? Aug 09 21:25:01 timely: yes. he seems to think it is adblock Aug 09 21:25:28 adblock slows the browser drastically down ... Aug 09 21:25:29 says he is getting 5s to open a microb window Aug 09 21:25:43 well, I can just test right now Aug 09 21:25:51 yes i second that with adblock and performance ... i uninstalled it Aug 09 21:25:54 adblock is indeed a good guess Aug 09 21:26:04 adblock on launch iirc will try to update all of its block lists Aug 09 21:26:09 or something similarly stupid :) Aug 09 21:26:14 only if you ask for it Aug 09 21:26:14 my startup times ~tripled. Aug 09 21:26:19 thats what i guessed was happening too Aug 09 21:26:19 * timely shrugs Aug 09 21:26:23 (with adblock installed) Aug 09 21:26:35 anyway... thanks.. that's good. i'll make that point 5 in my "how to break microb and blame us" Aug 09 21:26:38 but you are not getting any ads right? Aug 09 21:26:47 RST38h: right :) Aug 09 21:26:49 i turn off image loading :) Aug 09 21:26:55 timely: do wait until I test it Aug 09 21:27:06 im happy with flashblock ... the other ads arent so heavy imo Aug 09 21:27:07 RST38h: i wouldn't push until i got to work :) Aug 09 21:28:52 timely: In the meanwhile, looks like some (if not all) livejournal.com pages send browserd into a loop Aug 09 21:29:08 zap: the is still no fixed unrar-nonfree in diablo-extras-devel *puncturing-you-with-a-needle* ;-) Aug 09 21:29:22 yes, it is Aug 09 21:29:38 RST38h: sadly i have bigger issues atm Aug 09 21:29:46 I'll fix it RSN Aug 09 21:29:48 timely: even bigger issues? Aug 09 21:29:51 a primary service i work on was disabled because it was killing its host Aug 09 21:30:03 is it world peace? =) Aug 09 21:30:07 hehe Aug 09 21:30:08 the server is used my many developers and is the stage for a service used by most mozilla devs Aug 09 21:30:19 it's also the upstream for a service used by maemo devs @nokia and mxr.maemo.org Aug 09 21:30:23 what was / is the service if i may ask? Aug 09 21:30:26 i need to solve that before i play w/ anything else Aug 09 21:30:29 zap: (it is still 3.8.2-1maemo1 which has the size-mismatch) :) Aug 09 21:30:39 moontiger: well, you can't see the down version :) Aug 09 21:30:46 heh right Aug 09 21:30:47 mxr.mozilla.org is the live one, mxr.maemo.org is the maemo equiv Aug 09 21:30:48 :) Aug 09 21:31:00 what does it do? Aug 09 21:32:00 if you can't figure that out at first, but figure it out later Aug 09 21:32:11 i'm accepting patches to improve it so that you wouldn't have to ask Aug 09 21:32:21 i really don't have time to answer. and it should be self explanatory Aug 09 21:32:28 i actually went and read the page ... now i get it ... sorry :| Aug 09 21:34:06 where do I find updated rtcomm components? Aug 09 21:34:40 so the service is bringing the server down because the indexing crawler(s) are too intensive? Aug 09 21:35:04 nope Aug 09 21:35:12 i'm told it's actually the /source/ script Aug 09 21:35:22 which was recently "optimized" by adding caching Aug 09 21:35:28 but i have no idea what's going wrong Aug 09 21:35:49 AdBlock kills MicroB. Hosts/CSS is the way to block ads. Aug 09 21:36:01 GeneralAntilles: what's the status on the bugs.maemo reorg? Aug 09 21:36:08 wonder if the caching tripped the swap file usage or something Aug 09 21:36:12 timely, no visible progress. Aug 09 21:36:22 The logs from the bugzilla meeting are up. Aug 09 21:36:29 moontiger: the process went over 1gb a couple of times Aug 09 21:36:31 does not kill microb for me Aug 09 21:36:33 i have no idea Aug 09 21:36:35 Basically blocked by guenther's work on the templates at this point. Aug 09 21:37:20 ok Aug 09 21:37:28 the last visit to source before it was killed was by msnbot ... Aug 09 21:37:32 * timely grumbles Aug 09 21:37:54 timely, bookmark http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/ Aug 09 21:37:57 is there actually an explanation why adblock makes the microb startup so slow? Aug 09 21:38:07 it loads stuff Aug 09 21:38:14 I just got back from vacation, and haven't yet gotten back to sitting on people. Aug 09 21:38:18 jott: there are a couple of profilers available if you want to try playing w/ them Aug 09 21:38:32 The following packages have been kept back: Aug 09 21:38:32 libbz2-1.0 libdb4.2 libglade2-0 libxml2 rtcom-beta-os2008 Aug 09 21:38:32 best of all, i have no idea which of two mxr's was actually responsible for the death Aug 09 21:38:45 RST38h: yeah but SO slow?.. Aug 09 21:38:47 Any ideas of what would be holding back these? Aug 09 21:38:50 wow sounds like fun ... not Aug 09 21:38:54 jott: it is JavaScript Aug 09 21:39:25 RST38h: still shouldn't be that slow if done right :) Aug 09 21:39:42 anyone know about mounting jffs2 on mtd devices? I'm getting jffs2_scan_eraseblock(): Magic bitmask 0x1985 not found at 0x07f40aa8: 0x0104 instead Aug 09 21:39:50 moontiger: and of course, there's no guarantee that the last request was actually the cause of death... it's just a more likely candidate Aug 09 21:39:52 jott: depends on the implemntation of the hpptrequests in the browser code i guess Aug 09 21:40:11 I'd rather seen AdBlock taken down, personally. So many newbies install it and then blame the resulting slowness on MicroB. . . . Aug 09 21:40:32 timely: yah Aug 09 21:40:35 hello! Aug 09 21:40:47 but browsing on such a small display with ads its... frustrating, unless you limit yourself to known-good sites Aug 09 21:40:55 * GeneralAntilles should maybe talk krisse into doing a Tablet School article on ad blocking Aug 09 21:40:59 jaska, hosts/css Aug 09 21:41:38 anyone know if its possible to connect a joystick to the n810? Aug 09 21:41:41 moontiger: it wasn't a good experience, the box admin just "killed" the files Aug 09 21:41:43 but with hosts you can't block http://goodsite.com/ads/ .. :/ Aug 09 21:41:44 i mean, does it supply enough power Aug 09 21:41:46 and didn't send me an email Aug 09 21:41:51 he figured i'd "notice eventually" Aug 09 21:41:56 wow nice! Aug 09 21:42:00 what a great guy Aug 09 21:42:02 it turns out there are a series of cron jobs that did start yelling at me Aug 09 21:42:10 so i looked, and indeed the directories were missing Aug 09 21:42:22 but no hint as to where they went or why (or who killed / moved them) Aug 09 21:42:30 oh, and it was friday, and i was about to turn into a pumpkin Aug 09 21:42:34 jott, that's where CSS comes in. Aug 09 21:42:39 right Aug 09 21:42:58 anyway... i got him, and he thankfully moved them to ~timeless/ Aug 09 21:43:07 so they're not lost *phew* Aug 09 21:43:23 so this is indexing and xref'ing the maemo stuff? Aug 09 21:43:25 GeneralAntilles: yeah well... i would rather have a sane adblock ;) Aug 09 21:43:44 moontiger: the mxr.maemo.org one does, yes Aug 09 21:44:07 note that it's somewhat still, the hosting provider there ran into an issue w/ their file system store and until that's fixed, i shouldn't push updates Aug 09 21:44:34 we kinda suspect my data was the ton of bricks (they're like straw) that broke the camel's back :( Aug 09 21:45:23 how much data did u generate? Aug 09 21:46:28 does greasemonkey for mircob "work" or has it similar problems as adblock? Aug 09 21:47:30 moontiger: well, the indexes in some cases are 1/2 gb each :) Aug 09 21:47:40 but mostly it's the sources themselves are gbs (say 22 in one case) Aug 09 21:47:46 wow thats a lot of data to be moving around Aug 09 21:47:53 no kidding :) Aug 09 21:48:02 and for added fun, i'm behind a firewall Aug 09 21:48:08 which means i get to use rsync + ssh tunneling Aug 09 21:48:23 oh, and i can never find the right command when i need it :) Aug 09 21:48:39 timely: 6.48 with browserd running and adblock disabled Aug 09 21:49:45 jott, somewhat similar to adblock last time I tried. Aug 09 21:50:09 The page renders normally, then the GreaseMonkey scripts are applied and the page is re-rendered. :\ Aug 09 21:50:15 timely: 8.73 without browserd and without adblock Aug 09 21:50:37 RST38h: much closer to our targets Aug 09 21:50:43 now you understand why we were mistified? Aug 09 21:50:54 not perfect, it's supposed to be <5 iirc Aug 09 21:51:07 mystified ? Aug 09 21:51:10 * timely sighs Aug 09 21:51:36 GeneralAntilles: :( Aug 09 21:52:12 * GeneralAntilles throws lots of grenades at the browser team to mistify them. Aug 09 21:52:40 GeneralAntilles: i'm almost done reading the log Aug 09 21:55:03 timely: still <3sec difference Aug 09 21:55:38 so it looks like you are wasting memory for browserd to gain <3sec load time difference Aug 09 21:55:56 sorry Aug 09 21:56:06 getting it into that 5s window was really a requriement Aug 09 21:56:13 plus there's a slightly more interesting point Aug 09 21:56:20 browserd has multiple consumers Aug 09 21:56:23 is it not possible for the adblock plugin to defer updating the lists until a few seconds after the browser has loaded Aug 09 21:56:26 ? Aug 09 21:56:31 perhaps mail or chat or the tutorial Aug 09 21:56:39 and we don't want those apps to crash just because gecko does Aug 09 21:57:06 GeneralAntilles: so where's the blog? i want to subscribe to bugjar Aug 09 21:57:17 also, did sjgadsby put in the old jar entries? Aug 09 21:57:24 because there's nothing that says a blog can't have old content Aug 09 21:57:51 oh, one browserd can serve multiple clients? Aug 09 21:58:05 moontiger: it actually does not need to do automatic updates at all.... well once a month would more than suffice. Aug 09 21:58:10 timely, I never got a URL. Aug 09 21:58:31 jott: so why does it do that by default?? Aug 09 21:58:42 I don't think he ever followed up to get it onto planet, either. Aug 09 21:58:47 moontiger: don't ask me :) Aug 09 21:58:53 RST38h: try the tutorial. afair it is a browserd client Aug 09 21:58:53 heh :) Aug 09 21:58:58 i can't remember any others Aug 09 21:59:06 but i know internally there are plans for a couple of others Aug 09 21:59:17 no guarantees of release cycles or anything :) Aug 09 21:59:46 moontiger: probably because it's an 1:1 port from the desktop version, with just the xul ui removed ;) Aug 09 22:00:19 (and maybe an extra delay added :P Aug 09 22:00:27 jott: right ... *laughs* Aug 09 22:00:31 there's no guarantee of quality w/ the -extras ports Aug 09 22:00:38 in fact, there's a history of some major bugs in them :) Aug 09 22:00:47 is jffs2 endian Aug 09 22:01:05 lbt: jffs2 isn't the future as you can see from #maemo logs and itt :) Aug 09 22:01:19 timely: you should slap people and enforce quality :) Aug 09 22:01:28 EBUSY Aug 09 22:01:30 Just as well that Browser Extras isn't in maemo.org Extras. Aug 09 22:01:38 it may not be the future Aug 09 22:01:39 timely: just slap then then ;) Aug 09 22:01:44 them Aug 09 22:01:47 but Chinook comes with it Aug 09 22:02:02 and I want to take the chinook jffs2 and put it on my nit Aug 09 22:02:03 chinook isnt the future either tho is it? Aug 09 22:02:16 lbt: can chinook boot off an mmc running ext2? Aug 09 22:02:18 Chinook is quite clearly the past. Aug 09 22:02:27 timely: yes. Aug 09 22:02:27 I'll let you know Aug 09 22:02:39 OTOH I'd like my app to work on chinook Aug 09 22:02:42 pretend jffs2 doesn't exist, and move along w/ life Aug 09 22:02:48 so I want a chinook image to test Aug 09 22:03:11 OK - tell me how to setup multiboot... Aug 09 22:03:16 https://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting Aug 09 22:03:20 fwiw, i'm generally not opposed to dwelling in the past, i run 10.3.9 after all :) Aug 09 22:03:30 I want to extract from jffs2 Aug 09 22:03:31 (and various old versions of Maemo) Aug 09 22:03:56 my script on that page results in executables that say Aug 09 22:03:57 * jott prepares an shiny exploit package for timely Aug 09 22:04:18 ENOTWORTHIT Aug 09 22:04:18 ooh... chroot /mnt/chinook/ /bin/sh.... chroot: cannot execute /bin/sh: Exec format error Aug 09 22:04:28 EIDONTCARE Aug 09 22:04:30 GeneralAntilles: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Getting_Nokia_involved_in_Bugzilla is kinda empty Aug 09 22:04:37 but it's shiny :O Aug 09 22:04:41 FSLEEP Aug 09 22:04:47 jott: true Aug 09 22:05:05 lbt: ls -lf /mnt/chinook/bin/sh Aug 09 22:05:09 and - all this frigging about has taught me lots about incidentals :) Aug 09 22:05:25 busybox symlink Aug 09 22:05:39 try running busybox instead? Aug 09 22:05:45 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Aug 3 17:50 /mnt/chinook/bin/sh -> busybox Aug 09 22:05:48 I did Aug 09 22:06:02 ./busybox: line 1: syntax error: "(" unexpected Aug 09 22:06:12 I wondered about corruption during the rsync Aug 09 22:06:26 but the config files in etc are OK Aug 09 22:06:32 windows line endings? :) Aug 09 22:06:52 I don't have that OS on any of my machines Aug 09 22:07:01 but that's not to say... Aug 09 22:07:07 just a blind guess .. Aug 09 22:07:12 's fair Aug 09 22:07:53 I used the script on the page I linked to get the files into my chinook partition Aug 09 22:08:06 but the executables don't execute Aug 09 22:08:07 "I used this script (which doesn't work yet)" haha wiki fin :) Aug 09 22:08:09 fun Aug 09 22:08:14 I get Exec format errors Aug 09 22:08:28 during linuxrc execution Aug 09 22:08:31 for kicks, try just running it w/ chroot Aug 09 22:08:34 just after the pivot_root Aug 09 22:08:37 /mnt/chinook/bin/busybox Aug 09 22:08:42 I did Aug 09 22:08:47 what's it say? Aug 09 22:08:52 hold on Aug 09 22:09:11 chroot: cannot execute /bin/sh: Exec format error Aug 09 22:09:25 which is where it all began.... Aug 09 22:09:40 and I went down the "is jffs2 endian rabbit hole" Aug 09 22:09:51 then I checked ./etc/ and the files there are OK Aug 09 22:09:54 timely, I tried to provoke some discussion on that during the meeting with lame results. Aug 09 22:10:03 * GeneralAntilles pokes andre____ with a sharpened stick. Aug 09 22:10:18 GeneralAntilles: the pages don't seem to work in safari 1.x Aug 09 22:10:23 one of them worked in ff2 Aug 09 22:10:41 Oh? Aug 09 22:10:42 Reload Aug 09 22:10:44 should Chinook work on a Diablo kernel? Aug 09 22:10:52 Apache threads are segfaulting in the wiki Aug 09 22:11:00 or rather a diablo initfs Aug 09 22:11:02 Basically waiting on the server upgrades for a fix at this point. . . . Aug 09 22:11:30 lbt, probably Aug 09 22:11:33 No guarantees, though. Aug 09 22:11:49 and there's no kexec yet Aug 09 22:12:06 oh youch Aug 09 22:12:24 lbt: probably not the whole thing Aug 09 22:12:36 but busybox should either give you a useful error or work if the binary is proper Aug 09 22:12:37 the other thing that made me wonder was my host gave a lot of these errors when I loopback mounted the jffs2 rootfs to get the chinook image off Aug 09 22:12:43 jffs2_scan_eraseblock(): Magic bitmask 0x1985 not found at 0x07f48024: 0xa4db instead Aug 09 22:12:44 it's a way to test for file corruption Aug 09 22:13:00 I agree timely Aug 09 22:13:01 lbt: that does not sound sane. Aug 09 22:13:09 indeed Aug 09 22:13:18 I suspect the loopback mount isn't right Aug 09 22:13:18 and yeah, "that sounds BAD" Aug 09 22:13:32 ok Aug 09 22:13:33 and hence I wondered if it was endian Aug 09 22:13:39 and I think that's where I came in :D Aug 09 22:13:40 it seems like my biggest consumer on friday was msnbot Aug 09 22:14:00 now microsoft has all of the maemo code :O Aug 09 22:14:11 ok, the open parts ;) Aug 09 22:14:14 I also found this quote on a Gentoo page :The image is an Little Endian jffs2 image. To mount it on Big Endian architectures (like PowerPC) it'll have to be converted: Aug 09 22:14:26 my other consumer was a libwww-perl script trying to exploit some service Aug 09 22:14:38 and, IINM the arm is a different endian to the x86 Aug 09 22:14:42 but I'm not sure Aug 09 22:14:44 lbt: maemo is armel. Aug 09 22:14:46 jott: it was spidering mozilla not maemo Aug 09 22:14:59 armel -endian little? Aug 09 22:15:00 timely: ah so they have firefox now ;) Aug 09 22:15:04 same as x86? Aug 09 22:15:04 yep Aug 09 22:15:16 ok - so it's not that... Aug 09 22:15:33 * lbt goes digging for shiney things again... Aug 09 22:15:57 lbt: maybe the jffs2 version is incompatible. Aug 09 22:16:12 I'm on 2.6.27-rc2 Aug 09 22:16:16 so maybe Aug 09 22:16:28 I was just looking for mount options - Aug 09 22:16:38 the mtd2block driver Aug 09 22:16:44 has options to set the erase size Aug 09 22:16:49 hehe -o justfcknwork Aug 09 22:16:56 so I need to find out how the jffs2 image was made Aug 09 22:17:01 I wish it would!! Aug 09 22:17:16 I *WILL* make it Aug 09 22:17:35 isn't there some tool that can just extract a jffs2 image? Aug 09 22:17:45 jffs2dump Aug 09 22:17:49 I've seen Aug 09 22:17:56 but I want it to mount dammit Aug 09 22:18:51 the source for block2mtd (IIRC) suggests that the erasesize is adjustable Aug 09 22:19:27 I think it's an undocumented feature passed in after a , Aug 09 22:20:09 lbt: have you googled for your error? gives quite some results :) Aug 09 22:20:26 yes - they didn't seem helpful Aug 09 22:20:44 I think it is just corruption - but I'm not 100% sure Aug 09 22:22:03 the 'services' file in mnt/chinook/etc terminates abruptly at ircd 6667/tcp # Internet Relay Aug 09 22:22:18 after 16384 bytes Aug 09 22:22:35 youch Aug 09 22:22:40 that's a magicish number Aug 09 22:22:50 it is isn't it :) Aug 09 22:23:11 I'm going with corruption and a bad erasesize on the loopback mount Aug 09 22:23:27 now, how do I analyse a jffs2 image to determine creation attributes? Aug 09 22:23:37 * lbt is thinking out loud Aug 09 22:25:26 hmm fanoush does $MYDIR/mkfs.jffs2 -r initfs -o $1 -e 128 -l -n Aug 09 22:28:41 ouch - just tickled a BUG Aug 09 22:29:48 OOPS? :) Aug 09 22:30:01 * GeneralAntilles really hates the "Email, Digg, Spam This!" spam on planet posts. . . . Aug 09 22:30:10 on my host Aug 09 22:30:37 Looks like aisu stole your WB theme, timely. ;) http://planet.maemo.org Aug 09 22:30:49 http://pastebin.com/d3f79d629 Aug 09 22:35:03 , reboot bbl Aug 09 22:37:24 heh Aug 09 22:37:54 nice choice of art, and given that i can't get WB here (my DVR is broken) i think i'll just smile :) Aug 09 22:38:16 the xp theme for it is impressive Aug 09 22:38:54 * timely chuckles Aug 09 22:39:02 i guess people really don't like vala :) Aug 09 22:39:18 why? Aug 09 22:39:44 check out the bottom of planet-maemo Aug 09 22:40:03 the vala item (not by zeenix) is +1 -6 Aug 09 22:40:11 which is possibly a record for bad karma Aug 09 22:42:16 are you sure it's not just because it's an inane comment? Aug 09 22:45:09 no, too lazy to check Aug 09 22:45:16 oh Aug 09 22:45:20 it really is just one comment? Aug 09 22:45:26 yep Aug 09 22:45:31 alright, let's make it -7 :) Aug 09 22:45:32 so I created a new application for maemo. I call it "I Am Free." It displays a red gem and costs absolutely nothing Aug 09 22:45:33 I was interested in vala... Aug 09 22:45:37 :D Aug 09 22:45:43 * lbt yawns Aug 09 22:46:11 ok, -7 it is :) Aug 09 22:46:16 get it while it's hot: http://ywwg.com/maemo/i_am_free-diablo.install Aug 09 22:48:21 anyone ever had the issue of flash video not working correctly on a 770 ? Aug 09 22:48:37 um, it's not going to work Aug 09 22:48:45 flash video gets feature upgrades w/ each flash release Aug 09 22:48:51 (8.5, 9, 9.5, 10) Aug 09 22:48:58 flash on 770 is older Aug 09 22:49:20 apparently my vic has flash 9 on his 770 (2007HE) Aug 09 22:50:02 * timely shrugs Aug 09 22:50:12 unless i'm mistaken that's unlicensed Aug 09 22:50:21 please correct me if i'm wrong Aug 09 22:50:41 I don't know Aug 09 22:52:33 the general story is that people pay adobe for flash by the unit(w/ specified os) Aug 09 22:52:50 and nokia would not have paid adobe for flash9 on 770 Aug 09 22:53:48 anyone here running chinook - could you tell me what "cat /proc/mtd" says? Aug 09 22:54:00 the rootfs line Aug 09 22:54:51 Flash 9 on the 770 is unlicensed Aug 09 22:55:02 but some people grab it from an N800/N810 Aug 09 22:55:20 It really doesn't have the horsepower for in-browser flash video Aug 09 22:55:26 They should use mplayer if they really need it. Aug 09 22:55:44 i'm not really sure what the rules on that are, but in general, it's probably not very nice to ask an unwitting person about that... Aug 09 22:56:12 this is AWESOME: Homemade Handheld Helicopter --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_QOLk1V7sw Aug 09 22:57:24 heh Aug 09 22:57:31 nokia sells an extended device warranty? Aug 09 22:57:49 or is that compusa? Aug 09 22:57:59 Gotta be CompUSA Aug 09 22:58:16 Nokia doesn't even have parts for the 770 anymore. Aug 09 22:59:29 that could be so interesting Aug 09 22:59:35 the last time i dealt w/ compusa on a deal like that Aug 09 22:59:51 i (well my dad) got a free upgrade from a 386 to a 486 because a part failed :) Aug 09 23:00:25 Nokia was either doing payouts or replacements with N800s for a lot of 770 owners with WSoDs. Aug 09 23:01:09 I'm surprised by the number of people reporting dramatically improved tablet experiences going Chinook -> Diablo. Aug 09 23:01:16 my 3yr old Canon S1 had a dodgy sensor and it got replace with a spanking new S5 'cos they were out of stock of the sensors :) Aug 09 23:01:24 I mean, Diablo's nice, but it isn't really a dramatic improvement Aug 09 23:01:30 GeneralAntilles: interesting Aug 09 23:01:41 Makes me think a lot of people had some godawful-broken Chinook installs. Aug 09 23:02:52 WOOHOO!!!! Aug 09 23:02:54 lbt, I'm going to see if I can work a deal for my mother's old S500 for a discount on a refurbed Rebel. Aug 09 23:03:19 they're nice Aug 09 23:03:48 My dad got an XTi for a 25-year company anniversary present Aug 09 23:03:55 I'd like to get an XT or something for myself. Aug 09 23:04:34 I have a D30 Aug 09 23:04:36 :D Aug 09 23:04:47 Whore. Aug 09 23:04:48 original and not the best! Aug 09 23:05:00 really need an upgrade now Aug 09 23:05:19 My buddy just got a free D80 from some crazy old woman he knows in Bermuda. Aug 09 23:05:27 no, this is the pre 30D,20D,10D,D60 version Aug 09 23:06:03 GeneralAntilles, the august sprint is supposed to be in 4 days, how come the wiki is empty ? Aug 09 23:06:13 22, isn't it? Aug 09 23:06:25 Planning meeting organized in the #maemo-meeting IRC channel on Tuesday 2008/08/12 Aug 09 23:06:34 Mostly because Quim is now on vacation, anyway. Aug 09 23:06:50 sooo... Quim goes to hug a beach, and everyone stops working ? :D Aug 09 23:07:06 Well, Quim does most of that work. ;) Aug 09 23:07:22 anyhow - the answer is: echo "/dev/loop0,128KiB" > /sys/module/block2mtd/parameters/block2mtd Aug 10 00:42:04 any maemo mapper users here? Aug 10 00:45:18 I like to pretend I am, but I don't actualy use it Aug 10 00:45:44 you poser Aug 10 01:00:01 that's it.. i'm going to rebuild my entire gentoo box and if that doesn't work i'm wiping it and never looking back Aug 10 01:00:07 i suppose i'll install debian on the box after this Aug 10 01:00:10 or ubuntu Aug 10 01:13:06 what more could you need than your internet tablet Aug 10 01:18:03 a computer that will do VMs :) Aug 10 01:19:27 the n770 is featured quite a bit in the harold kumar sequel Aug 10 01:32:23 anyone use mCalendar? Aug 10 01:33:14 or any other calendar software that syncs with google? Aug 10 01:33:39 s/n770/770/g Aug 10 01:50:21 gentooer: I just use Google Calendar :) Aug 10 01:51:06 yeah i might stick with that for now.. mCalendar is pretty broken Aug 10 01:51:36 alpha Aug 10 01:51:58 yeah i know. just thought i'd give it a try Aug 10 01:52:25 Feel free to help Khertan out and submit patches. ;) Aug 10 01:53:23 i'll try :) Aug 10 02:24:48 Does the Git package from the Debian repository work on Maemo? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 10 02:59:57 2008