**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 07 02:59:57 2008 Sep 07 03:00:02 Ha Sep 07 03:00:07 Guaranteed wont ship at the price Sep 07 03:00:12 sure Sep 07 03:00:14 But who knows. Sep 07 03:00:22 There've been similar fuckups in the past that've ben honored. Sep 07 03:00:46 well, people completed the whole process Sep 07 03:00:50 they paid for it and everything Sep 07 03:01:02 so won't they be obliged to honour it? Sep 07 03:01:13 there must be some lawsuit you guys will be able to file :P Sep 07 03:01:30 I don't recall what the agreement says. Sep 07 03:01:52 If they start shipping them Sep 07 03:02:13 I think we might as well mail all the paperwork for bankruptcy to the owner Sep 07 03:02:21 Ha Sep 07 03:02:46 hello - if I want to run a python process for a long time, I would use screen from the root terminal perhaps ?? I dont see screen installed on my N800.. whats the best way to get it? thx Sep 07 03:03:18 crashanddie, I doubt US law is as generous as UK law Sep 07 03:03:47 in the US you can term and conditions your way out of everything Im sure Sep 07 03:04:06 I don't even have a place to put something that big. Sep 07 03:04:16 LinuxCode, who are you and how the hell do you know I'm in the UK? :P Sep 07 03:04:29 GeneralAntilles, I'm sure you'll find a way Sep 07 03:04:41 crashanddie, Im your father....DR Evil Sep 07 03:04:43 It wont fit in the home theater center at my parent's house, either. Sep 07 03:04:43 your signin on msg shows your IP number often.. Sep 07 03:04:48 GeneralAntilles, and well, $2k bonus is never a bad thing, even if you sell it for $1k Sep 07 03:05:11 lol Sep 07 03:05:15 Sell it for a Mac Pro Sep 07 03:05:48 darkblue_B, right, like he bothered to check the logs for a time my mask didn't pop in before I joined the channel, trace the IP to get my location, just to know how to phrase his thought Sep 07 03:05:50 That makes sense Sep 07 03:06:20 Im in your head Sep 07 03:06:28 screen anyone? Sep 07 03:06:33 reading your brainwaves Sep 07 03:06:43 hehe Sep 07 03:06:51 darkblue_B, having a python process will probably drain your battery in a couple of hours Sep 07 03:07:07 hmm.. its ok.. Sep 07 03:07:11 I can manage t Sep 07 03:07:15 its for a demo Sep 07 03:07:27 uhm... why would it drain battery? Sep 07 03:07:49 it depends if it's actually consuming CPU time Sep 07 03:07:56 just having it in the background won't hurt Sep 07 03:07:58 I'm not that good with the repo system here.. so I am asking about where to find screen.. Sep 07 03:08:24 .. I notice its in the maemo.org/development/doc/man-pages Sep 07 03:08:40 darkblue_B, I don't have it in my repos, sorry, can't help Sep 07 03:09:01 AStorm, well, most python applets drain my battery quite heavily Sep 07 03:09:29 this is a light weight web server.. it may well be still when not used Sep 07 03:10:13 so .. I have to build screen? that doesnt seem right Sep 07 03:10:54 darkblue_B, why do you need to screen it in the first place? Sep 07 03:11:02 Should be in the tools repo Sep 07 03:11:02 crashanddie: that's because they're using cairo? Sep 07 03:11:10 still, which python applets? Sep 07 03:11:41 AStorm, HomeIP and HomeWE Sep 07 03:11:43 crashanddie: hmm, safer than the & backgrounder in the root shell Sep 07 03:12:08 crashanddie: they such due to other reasons Sep 07 03:12:12 *suck Sep 07 03:12:16 darkblue_B, just make a proper daemon out of it (dunno if that's possible with python, guess so), and correct logging abilities Sep 07 03:12:24 it is possible Sep 07 03:12:30 with sys.fork I think Sep 07 03:12:38 there is syslog module too Sep 07 03:13:05 pointers welcome Sep 07 03:13:21 working source example more welcome! Sep 07 03:13:35 darkblue_B, I know the easy way to go would be to screen it, but having a screen running is no more secure than having a desynched shell Sep 07 03:14:26 darkblue_B, http://code.activestate.com/recipes/278731/ Sep 07 03:14:47 darkblue_B, http://docs.python.org/lib/module-syslog.html Sep 07 03:14:56 looking.. btw- no screen in the tools repo that I see Sep 07 03:16:27 yow.. 'simple' eh? Sep 07 03:17:48 * crashanddie is awkwardly helpful tonight Sep 07 03:18:37 if it's a demo then just use a terminal session from a laptop or desktop Sep 07 03:19:32 well, the show goes like this.. I have the light weight server running on the N800.. there is a cusomt RESTful DB server on top of sqlite3 Sep 07 03:19:55 then I use my laptop and run the two web page clients Sep 07 03:20:20 <_Tom> is there an IRC client for my n810? Sep 07 03:20:23 so I really dont use the terminal on the N800 at all , once its running Sep 07 03:20:56 Why not use a terminal on the laptop and ssh to the n800 Sep 07 03:20:57 sqlite3 is built into recent python Sep 07 03:21:24 brontide: if I start the thing tonight.. I dont think I wl lhave to change anything for Monday Sep 07 03:21:42 I think it will run quietly Sep 07 03:21:58 simple is use Xterminal on the n800 or use a ssh connection from a laptop Sep 07 03:22:22 or properly daemonize the app Sep 07 03:22:37 ?? Sep 07 03:22:52 I am n on ssh now on the N800 from a laptop Sep 07 03:23:02 why connect later? I dont follow Sep 07 03:23:11 I just want to start it and leave it Sep 07 03:23:44 Then use Xterminal and minimize the window... no need for screen Sep 07 03:26:36 brontide: I dont see xterminal.. where do I get that? Sep 07 03:26:51 utilities... it's installed by default Sep 07 03:27:01 scroll down Sep 07 03:27:48 nope Sep 07 03:27:55 not finding it ??? Sep 07 03:28:27 You do have os2008? Sep 07 03:29:00 yes, I believe I do.. how can I check? Sep 07 03:29:41 then when you open your application menu on the left, select utilities, and then scroll down to the bottom on the right Sep 07 03:30:13 uuhhh Sep 07 03:30:20 you mean the terminal on the N800 Sep 07 03:30:25 not a remote xterminal Sep 07 03:30:27 ok Sep 07 03:30:38 Yes, it's called Xterminal Sep 07 03:30:50 sorry for the disconnect Sep 07 03:35:28 ok, well working on the setup Sep 07 03:44:42 <_Tom> um... does someone know if there is a IRC client available for the n810? Sep 07 03:44:56 ~xchat Sep 07 03:44:57 somebody said xchat was an IRC client for unix and windows at http://www.xchat.org or http://www.silverex.org/news/ Sep 07 03:45:04 it's in Extras-devel Sep 07 03:45:07 ;) Sep 07 03:45:12 ~extras Sep 07 03:45:13 somebody said extras was http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Sep 07 03:45:13 works quite good Sep 07 03:45:18 that should be promoted though Sep 07 03:45:41 <_Tom> Thanks, thats wha I've been missing lately Sep 07 03:45:51 Waiting on some packaging fixes Sep 07 03:46:08 Talk to mgedmin if you want to help. Sep 07 03:46:09 <_Tom> I use xchat, it works well Sep 07 03:46:10 <-- still waiting for X-Fade to return Sep 07 03:46:23 He should be back today Sep 07 03:46:24 and I'll be able to push some packages :) Sep 07 03:46:32 today? Sep 07 03:46:34 Which probably translates to Momday. Sep 07 03:46:43 Momday? Sep 07 03:46:46 s/Mom/Mon/ Sep 07 03:46:46 GAN800 meant: Which probably translates to Monday. Sep 07 03:46:50 I thought that was around may Sep 07 03:47:08 your Freudian slip is showing Sep 07 03:47:23 shoving you around Sep 07 03:49:09 brontide: bingo.. the server is running :-) Sep 07 03:49:28 congrats, good luck on your demo Sep 07 03:49:47 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0010Z28XG/ref=s9sdps_c4_23_at2-rfc_g1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_r=1AR8VCNHZSTBFQ7V896H&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=425580501&pf_rd_i=507846 Sep 07 03:50:11 GeneralAntilles, I know where Darius Jack lives Sep 07 03:50:25 You should go have tea with him. Sep 07 03:51:16 <_Tom> 16gb hdsc... sick$42 Sep 07 03:51:41 _Tom, SD or microSD? Sep 07 03:51:52 SD Sep 07 03:51:53 <_Tom> oh... :( Sep 07 03:53:23 GeneralAntilles, duntyawannano howadidit? Sep 07 03:53:27 process looks perfectly quiet to me Sep 07 03:53:48 top -b | grep ### Sep 07 03:53:55 crashanddie, sure, Mr. PI. :P Sep 07 03:54:01 hehe :P Sep 07 03:54:06 hang on Sep 07 03:54:26 trying a few things, if I'm (really) lucky, I should be able to pull out his real name/home address Sep 07 03:59:51 GeneralAntilles, you remember that place you sent me a link to for the OTG usb adapters? Sep 07 04:00:02 Yeah Sep 07 04:00:14 heh well after 3 weeks of waiting they sent the wrong ones Sep 07 04:00:17 *sigh* Sep 07 04:00:32 Ouch Sep 07 04:00:45 http://www.electronicproductonline.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35_67&products_id=2043 Sep 07 04:00:45 yah they sent for the n800 but i wanted for the n810 Sep 07 04:00:49 That looks better, though. Sep 07 04:00:53 Oh, uh, they sent the right one. Sep 07 04:00:57 There isn't one for the N810 yet. Sep 07 04:01:13 yah ... i sent them back :| Sep 07 04:01:19 Darius Jack: 88.220.124.198. IE 7. Windows XP. Sep 07 04:01:22 how come there isnt one for n810 yet?? Sep 07 04:01:38 So, you actually ORDERED the wrong one, they didn't SEND the wrong one. :P Sep 07 04:01:44 Jolouis is working on it. Sep 07 04:01:53 There's nobody that makes a MicroUSB adaptor of that type Sep 07 04:01:57 He's having them custom built Sep 07 04:02:00 well i THOUGHT it was for the n810 and i SWEAR i read it that way on the page Sep 07 04:02:03 You could probably pm or email him for details. Sep 07 04:02:27 i have a keyboard i want to use but it has a regular usb plug on it Sep 07 04:03:18 do you know how i can get in touch with him? Sep 07 04:03:28 I wonder what all the people thinking they want a Pandora think they're gonna get. Sep 07 04:03:39 They do realize it just ships with a emulator loader, right? Sep 07 04:03:52 http://www.electronicproductonline.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2004 Sep 07 04:04:25 <_Tom> pandora? Sep 07 04:04:33 Krakow, crashanddie? Sep 07 04:04:42 http://www.openpandora.org/ Sep 07 04:05:11 <_Tom> looks cool Sep 07 04:05:20 Looks huge in that mockup at the top. Sep 07 04:05:46 <_Tom> linux? Sep 07 04:06:15 GeneralAntilles, nope, actually, he's in the south of the country, near the Slovakian border Sep 07 04:06:21 _Tom, sort of. Sep 07 04:06:29 _Tom, it can run Linux Sep 07 04:06:33 But it doesn't ship with anything Sep 07 04:06:38 So you'll have to put something like Debian on it. Sep 07 04:07:02 <_Tom> no wimax :( Sep 07 04:07:12 lol Sep 07 04:07:17 No comment. Sep 07 04:07:22 bef0rd, yes thanks i saw that but i really dont want to have a frankenstein cable for my keyboard Sep 07 04:09:44 GeneralAntilles, does the keyboard have {}[] keys and a tab? Sep 07 04:09:58 moontiger, heh Sep 07 04:10:13 moontiger, I don't know. Sep 07 04:10:41 i would still love to meet the sicko who decided not to have those keys on the n810 keyboard Sep 07 04:10:54 Well, obviously, Nokia's cellphone designers. Sep 07 04:11:03 Do you know of any cellphones with them? ;) Sep 07 04:11:04 * moontiger sighs Sep 07 04:11:26 Stupid, maybe, but it does make sense. Sep 07 04:11:31 * moontiger goes to look for bluetooth keyboards .... again Sep 07 04:11:36 GeneralAntilles, well, Krakow was close enough I guess, but from what I can gather he lives under the juris-dick-tion of Bielsko-Biala Sep 07 04:11:48 crashanddie, go visit him. Sep 07 04:11:57 GeneralAntilles, that's a long way from London :P Sep 07 04:12:02 GeneralAntilles, especially for a troll Sep 07 04:12:09 Pfft Sep 07 04:12:11 It's nothing. Sep 07 04:12:15 Europe is small. Sep 07 04:12:27 You want to talk long ways, talk about flying coast to coast in the US. :P Sep 07 04:13:03 1,016 mi – about 16 hours 17 mins Sep 07 04:14:37 Drive time? Sep 07 04:14:43 Awfully slow airplane. Sep 07 04:14:45 yup Sep 07 04:15:00 It's a perfect weekend trip. :P Sep 07 04:15:41 I'm not taking travelling sarcasm from someone who won't even come to the Maemo Summit just because he wants to stay in his room Sep 07 04:16:07 Now, now. :P Sep 07 04:16:08 hmm sqlite3 appears to be running, too Sep 07 04:16:51 That's 22 hours, anyway. Sep 07 04:16:56 So your logic doesn't follow. Sep 07 04:17:38 "here's a chinook compile of sqlite3"... zip file Sep 07 04:17:45 how did they do that? Sep 07 04:17:58 remarks: trouble: abuse,bug reports and spam notification: - mailto:abuse@exatel.pl Sep 07 04:18:07 it requires the pc dev environment? Sep 07 04:19:50 anyway Sep 07 04:19:53 5:20AM Sep 07 04:19:57 My work is done Sep 07 04:20:07 Go forth and sleep! Sep 07 04:20:23 did you get my PM? Sep 07 04:21:03 It's the johnx Sep 07 04:27:34 GeneralAntilles, does the apple bluetooth keyboard work with the n810? Sep 07 04:27:39 Yeah Sep 07 04:27:41 moontiger, yes Sep 07 04:27:47 It's a standard HID device Sep 07 04:28:01 do i have to re-compile the kernel or sacrifice my cat to get it working? Sep 07 04:28:37 can i remap the keys so i get a proper backspace key? Sep 07 04:29:04 No Sep 07 04:29:09 It's a standard HID device Sep 07 04:29:16 xmodmap can do whatever you need. Sep 07 04:30:03 is anybody using one with the n810? Sep 07 04:30:34 Yes, lots of people Sep 07 04:30:37 lcuk is one. Sep 07 04:30:43 What do you mean by "proper" backspace, anyway? Sep 07 04:31:00 they only have the "delete on the spot" type of delete key Sep 07 04:31:24 The delete key above the backslash key is just a regular backspace key. Sep 07 04:31:31 * moontiger goes to look Sep 07 04:31:37 Ignore whatever it's labeled as Sep 07 04:31:53 Apple just uses different terminology. Sep 07 04:32:47 ok so that does backspace ... can i remap something to do delete then? Sep 07 04:33:05 Sure, you can remap whatever you want with xmodmap. Sep 07 04:33:16 even those weird keys along the top row? Sep 07 04:33:43 Er, the function keys? :\ Sep 07 04:34:02 the thing top right next to f12 Sep 07 04:34:14 Should show as F13 Sep 07 04:34:29 fn-backspace will probably get you forward delete. Sep 07 04:34:31 awesome ... so its a good choice you would say? Sep 07 04:34:39 Yes, it's an excellent keyboard. Sep 07 04:34:50 ok schweet ... i'll get one ... thnx :) Sep 07 04:34:57 oh and they arent too big no? Sep 07 04:35:04 It's laptop sized. Sep 07 04:35:09 hehehe Sep 07 04:35:48 thank you for the info :) Sep 07 05:36:54 http://beford.org/stuff/n810.svg :P Sep 07 05:37:15 Mmm, purty. Sep 07 05:37:36 Think you could do a simplified one that'd work at ~40px? Sep 07 05:39:36 does anybody know if esbox supports eclipse 3.4? Sep 07 05:40:09 I'd like to set the DISPLAY variable, but unfortunately the environment preferences window is bugged and shows nothing Sep 07 05:47:07 let me give it a try Sep 07 05:59:25 all right, looks like esbox does not support eclipse 3.4, and it doesn't even recognize the lack of support Sep 07 06:18:27 Mikho, what u using eclipse for? Sep 07 06:19:58 software development Sep 07 06:36:42 Mikho, what language? Sep 07 06:38:31 C++ Sep 07 06:39:39 and you like eclipse? Sep 07 06:41:20 have you tried the new sbox2 environment and anjuta? Sep 07 06:44:22 well, eclipse is good, but sloooooow Sep 07 06:45:04 i tried anjuta, i think, but there was something in it I didn't like Sep 07 06:46:35 there is a really nice plug-in for C with maemo cross compiling ... its fast and personally i love it Sep 07 06:47:32 the plug-in cross-compiles and makes a .deb package all in one Sep 07 06:47:38 GeneralAntilles, http://beford.org/stuff/n810-2.svg ? Sep 07 06:48:03 bef0rd, wow thats really nice :) Sep 07 06:48:17 Not bad, I'd consider blanking the screen and maybe just outlining the keyboard. Sep 07 06:48:28 You should consider making a set that people can use, though. :D Sep 07 06:48:38 yah thats nice :) Sep 07 06:52:22 Shiny Sep 07 06:53:16 moontiger, thanks heh Sep 07 08:10:31 Hi ! Sep 07 08:26:22 Khertan1, what's with the -developers mail? Sep 07 08:27:22 I think it was to do with "Stupid asshole could you stop spamming ... !" and Dave Neary sending an email... Sep 07 08:27:38 Which was a shame because I quite liked Khertan's email Sep 07 08:33:55 Man, everybody needs to grow up. Sep 07 08:34:36 Darius's shit talking is an incentive to get pissed off though. Sep 07 08:37:37 good morning all Sep 07 08:38:49 ~seen solmumaha Sep 07 08:38:52 solmumaha was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 11h 5m 55s ago, saying: 'using usbcontrol?'. Sep 07 08:39:00 hey aquatix Sep 07 08:39:41 'sup? Sep 07 08:40:02 nm :) Sep 07 08:40:56 Anyone know a quick and dirty way to recalculate the Installed-Size section in a deb's control file? Sep 07 08:44:16 ar x foo.deb data.tar.gz ; mkdir tmp ; tar -C tmp -xzf data.tar.gz ; du -sb tmp ; rm -rf rmp data.tar.gz Sep 07 08:44:43 Thanks aspect :) Sep 07 08:49:12 my diablo n810 is continuously rebooting, is there anything I can do except reflash? haven't done a backup in a while, stupid me Sep 07 08:50:44 If you have bootmenu, you can chroot into it over usbnet and send the deb packages for klogd & sysklogd and install them and at least find out why it is rebooting Sep 07 08:51:28 I don't, but I might by next time, thanks Sep 07 08:51:31 enabling the rd mode flag no-lifeguard-reset may help as well Sep 07 08:52:12 it may allow your tablet to boot and you may be able to get ssh by wifi (if you have it installed). I messed up the x-server on my tablet, but it booted enough to let me ssh in. Sep 07 08:53:03 I did a shutdown -r 0, it rebooted, got to the desktop, rebooted again and got less and less into the boot sequence until I pulled the battery, weird Sep 07 08:53:46 yawn Sep 07 08:54:14 hi Stskeeps Sep 07 08:54:26 mornin' Sep 07 08:57:24 btw, I managed to get an successful install of gnome by disabling the watchdogs and using the original kernel. I set it up to the way I like it (including making gksu let me use matchbox keyboard etc) and I install nit-env-lxde. I love it until the panel messes up :P. I'll delete the config files for the panel and reboot >.< Sep 07 08:59:18 .. decided to give in and install xchat since gprs and ssh into irssi is way too laggy Sep 07 09:00:01 * GeneralAntilles killed Deblet when it died during a chroot session. Sep 07 09:00:04 xchat ftw Sep 07 09:00:27 gksu would work with hildon input method too? Sep 07 09:00:44 StsN800: Btw, someone says that the hildon libraries are in debian repos already, or smthing like that Sep 07 09:01:03 StsN800: gksu unless with a little tweaking doesn't work with any input method :P Sep 07 09:01:24 qwerty12, yeah but is i-m-f there? Sep 07 09:01:26 In the end, I took the lazy way out and set NOPASSWD in my sudoers and made gksu listen to that Sep 07 09:01:35 i couldn't find it Sep 07 09:01:42 StsN800: No idea, but having the hildon libraries will save a lot of time Sep 07 09:01:50 true Sep 07 09:02:00 I need to get nm-applet started and I can start working when I ssh into it Sep 07 09:02:24 GeneralAntilles, died on maemo chroot or? Sep 07 09:02:41 with qole etc scripts? Sep 07 09:02:48 I was debootstrapping an install for the Beagle Sep 07 09:03:05 chrooted in after it was done to build and install drivers for a USB wifi adaptor Sep 07 09:03:10 wifi connection died Sep 07 09:03:17 xfce4 toolbar went away Sep 07 09:03:20 tapped the battery out Sep 07 09:03:22 it wont boot Sep 07 09:03:28 probably has something to do with symlinking prco Sep 07 09:03:34 s/prco/proc/ Sep 07 09:03:34 GeneralAntilles meant: probably has something to do with symlinking proc Sep 07 09:03:56 a few weeks ago I tried to install scratchbox on my ubuntu box, I dont know what problem I had, but I know there was something wrong. I'm looking at it again now - trying to work out whats wrong with it.. and when I run 'scratchbox' it says 'ERROR: You dont; have a Scratchbox user account!'. How can I fix that? Sep 07 09:03:56 Now how can I mount ext3 in Maemo to fix it. . . . http://slexy.org/view/s20KnyW7Pg Sep 07 09:04:20 insmod mbcache and jbd first. Sep 07 09:04:32 xfce toolbar is normal to disappear if its nit-env-stskeeps:P Sep 07 09:04:37 aaah, had mbcache Sep 07 09:04:47 * qwerty12 uses modprobe thanks to jott so all I do is modprobe ext3 and it's done Sep 07 09:04:48 StsN800, how do you get it back? Sep 07 09:05:11 * GeneralAntilles is such a Mactard Sep 07 09:05:31 Hrm, still doesn't want to mount. Sep 07 09:05:34 GeneralAntilles, right or stylus hol Sep 07 09:05:41 I love how verbose mount is. . . . Sep 07 09:05:43 paste the last few messages for dmesg Sep 07 09:05:51 d ondesktop brings up menu Sep 07 09:05:57 GeneralAntilles: install mount.full from extras or the dev repo somewhere, it's much better Sep 07 09:06:29 but nit-env-stskeeps is bound to be ditched for lxde soon Sep 07 09:06:39 how can I uninstall scratchbox? Sep 07 09:07:54 Hrm, no wonder Sep 07 09:07:58 fsck is going to town on it Sep 07 09:08:19 ext2 or ext3? Sep 07 09:08:22 ext3 Sep 07 09:08:38 This SD card is probably failing Sep 07 09:08:45 I'm getting tons of fs issues. . . . Sep 07 09:09:19 StsN800, you still offer a tarball install? Sep 07 09:09:52 i do a fsck -y on boot in deblet before console appears. thats prolly why it doesn't look like it boots Sep 07 09:10:20 StsN800: Any idea why network manager disconnects my connection when I ssh into it? Sep 07 09:10:21 GeneralAntilles, no, due to potential legal issues Sep 07 09:10:31 Damn Sep 07 09:10:44 * GeneralAntilles doesn't want to have to run through the installer again. . . . Sep 07 09:11:10 GeneralAntilles, i plan to support debootstrapping from a .tar.gz though Sep 07 09:11:28 but apt packages are more difficult Sep 07 09:11:30 Man this is all such a pain in the ass. Sep 07 09:11:56 I just want either A. Working goddamn Bluetooth networking, B. Working goddamn USB wifi drivers, or C. Working goddamn USBNet Sep 07 09:11:59 hehe. at least it isn't the f Sep 07 09:12:03 Apparently I'm not allowed to have any of the above . . . . Sep 07 09:12:03 zap: I'll ask Ed to answer you, since I'm not polite enough Sep 07 09:12:21 GeneralAntilles, on beagle? Sep 07 09:12:34 Yeah Sep 07 09:13:00 I may just have to man up and try booting this thing on the Ubuntu LiveCD I've got again. Sep 07 09:14:01 The Beagle would be really awesome if I could get networking going. . . . Sep 07 09:14:08 trenka: ? Sep 07 09:14:54 * GeneralAntilles briefly contemplates USBNet from the Wii. Sep 07 09:15:37 GeneralAntilles, wasn't there a usb otg problem on beagle boards? Sep 07 09:15:44 or am i mistaken Sep 07 09:15:56 Well, there's a silicon issue with the USB host port. Sep 07 09:16:03 So they've omitted it. Sep 07 09:16:06 But OTG works fine Sep 07 09:16:18 I was just having trouble with the kernel that ships with the Ångstrom demo Sep 07 09:16:31 ah Sep 07 09:16:31 Downgraded to the the reference/testing kernel and it works fine now. Sep 07 09:16:51 zap: it's better for me to keep silent for the moment since I'm a bit angre Sep 07 09:17:13 and you were trying g_ether with deblet or something? Sep 07 09:17:31 Tried USBNet with the Ångstrom demo image Sep 07 09:17:38 The Beagle was more than willing to network Sep 07 09:17:49 But I haven't managed to beat my computer into the same. Sep 07 09:17:50 trenka: I tried not to irritate you, but it seems I haven't succeeded Sep 07 09:18:05 and apparently nobody on the planet uses USBNet with Leopard. Sep 07 09:19:48 qwerty12, saw the dsp headers are out? Sep 07 09:20:07 StsN800: Yeah, read that email Sep 07 09:20:30 Seeing as they aren't *really* out; it's easier just jacking stuff from maemo still Sep 07 09:20:31 that's fabolous Sep 07 09:20:52 well for recompiling osso-esd.. Sep 07 09:21:11 I don't get why TI/Nokia are so anal over the dsp. Sep 07 09:21:41 zap: anyway, I'll do my best to make you happy and keeping the 'build' symlink make sence Sep 07 09:23:25 GeneralAntilles, i loathe i have to reboot into ubuntu to usbnet too:P Sep 07 09:24:02 I'm trying not the think about what a pain it's going to be to get the wifi going. Sep 07 09:24:12 StsN800: Which kernel version are you using in Ubuntu? Sep 07 09:24:15 At least the damn thing has a serial console. Sep 07 09:25:01 qwerty12, no clue but its the.xp rndis problem i dislike Sep 07 09:25:30 there is always g_serial which i should add to deblet.. Sep 07 09:25:45 StsN800: Ah. I'm using 2.6.24-21-generic and I swear my usbnet in ubuntu doesn't work anymore :/ Sep 07 09:26:00 StsN800: You should, I added it in initfs and it just keeps on saving my ass Sep 07 09:28:43 im thinking to make holding home key or something under boot would activate a menu to choose g_serial, g_ether, g_file_storage etc Sep 07 09:29:24 g_file_storage is only really useful if you want the user to be able to mount their memory card, and considering that it would be in use during deblet boot... Sep 07 09:30:00 cant it export a mounted fs too? Sep 07 09:30:30 it can't Sep 07 09:30:32 Hmm, yes it can, I didn't have much success exporting mtdblock4 over usb though... Sep 07 09:30:37 oh, my bad. Sep 07 09:30:39 no, it cannot export a mounted fs Sep 07 09:30:43 it exports a block device Sep 07 09:30:56 blah Sep 07 09:31:05 use samba for exporting :> Sep 07 09:31:11 (but someone has to port it first) Sep 07 09:31:12 that would be cool thi Sep 07 09:31:16 though Sep 07 09:38:13 Hi everyone ! Sep 07 09:38:21 Hi, khertan. Sep 07 09:38:39 Don't tell me you're gonna wimp out on -developers just like that. :P Sep 07 09:38:48 yep i did it Sep 07 09:39:20 khertan, khertan, khertan . . . Sep 07 09:39:26 you disappoint me. :P Sep 07 09:40:23 i prefer don't waste my time, and use it to make better software Sep 07 09:41:08 when something borring me ... i go out ... Sep 07 09:42:11 GeneralAntilles: http://khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot28.png Sep 07 09:42:31 what do you think of it ? Sep 07 09:43:05 I think I can't read French. :P Sep 07 09:43:06 Looks good Sep 07 09:43:11 You gonna use stock icons, though? Sep 07 09:43:53 khertan, heh, thats my attitude when i end in fights with debian-legal or other things.. i just go code cos i want to make a good free product instead of fighting over interpretations Sep 07 09:43:55 GeneralAntilles: many user don't like the look of the stock icons .... Sep 07 09:44:23 StsN800: ;) Sep 07 09:44:27 khertan, I'm a stickler for complying with a platform's look and feel. Sep 07 09:44:40 GeneralAntilles: yep me too :) Sep 07 09:45:02 GeneralAntilles: this is why there is a pref 'override_theme' Sep 07 09:45:03 :) Sep 07 09:45:32 if you uncheck it ... it come back to the default stock icons :) Sep 07 09:46:07 Sounds acceptable Sep 07 09:46:13 héhé Sep 07 09:46:18 Still, I'd have the default the other way around. ;) Sep 07 09:46:34 yep i know ... Sep 07 09:46:46 but i think we can't educate users ... Sep 07 09:47:07 and as many found the OMWeather theme wonderfull ... Sep 07 09:47:24 which doesn't respect any maemo ui design ... Sep 07 09:47:51 i think i should make it default for all users ... and purist like us can deactivate it Sep 07 09:48:59 users now want something that is beautifull ... and if they haven't this impression while the 30 first seconds they use an application, they close it ... Sep 07 09:49:42 i found this attitude stupid, but this the way that many users today do Sep 07 09:49:49 so ... :) Sep 07 09:50:05 i m trying to make everybody happy :) Sep 07 09:50:25 I'm badly inclined towards only making people I don't hate happy. :D Sep 07 09:50:46 :) Sep 07 09:51:12 ok minus some exception :) Sep 07 10:01:59 I'm interested to see what sort of a software boom there'll be after the Summit. Sep 07 10:06:02 I did an apt-get remove scratchbox-core, and then ran the maemo-scratchbox-install_4.1.sh script, and it failed with the error Scratchbox command '/scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc' is not executable. How can I fix this? /scratchbox/compilers/ doesnt even exist. Sep 07 10:08:00 qwerty12: https://garage.maemo.org/snippet/detail.php?type=packagever&id=2 Sep 07 10:09:11 nm Sep 07 10:09:13 Stskeeps: Very interesting, but it sounds like we would have to recompile most of the programs on the debian repo? Sep 07 10:09:40 thought this was a generic wrapper Sep 07 10:09:45 is there a more correct way to uninstall scratchbox rather than deleting /scratchbox and removing scratchbox-core? I really want to get this working, but Im hitting dead ends each step of the way.. Sep 07 10:13:09 qwerty12: it could be interesting with a osk that uses him and doesnt show its own kbd Sep 07 10:13:45 True Sep 07 10:14:00 so you dont have to hildonize for h-im Sep 07 10:14:19 GeneralAntilles: got USB networking working between my laptop and N810 for mediaserv demos at the summit Sep 07 10:15:26 qwerty12: hildonizing matchbox-keyboard:> Sep 07 10:15:49 https://garage.maemo.org/snippet/detail.php?type=snippet&id=5 using that Sep 07 10:15:52 Stskeeps: Matchbox keyboard is ugly :P. I'd only rather use it when I need ctrl buttons etc Sep 07 10:16:52 qwerty12: the idea is to remove mbk layout totally so it just pops up h-im instead Sep 07 10:16:58 are the scripts in /scratchbox/sbin not +x for a reason? Sep 07 10:18:03 re Sep 07 10:18:11 qwerty12: enabling normal apps to have h-im Sep 07 10:18:34 seems free42 (calculator) have the wrong key(s) position... Sep 07 10:19:21 Jaffa, if only I had a Linux machine handy. Sep 07 10:21:33 qwerty12: have i lost you or you don't see the potential of osk in all non-hildon apps:) Sep 07 10:22:05 Stskeeps: I just dunno what to say + I'm busy on the rott port :) Sep 07 10:22:22 hehe Sep 07 10:22:32 i will hack on it later Sep 07 10:29:18 Greetings everyone! :) Sep 07 10:29:38 Addison, Heya! Sep 07 10:30:10 Hey, my apologies for such an off topic discussion. But anyone here willing to help me stick in a graphics card for my stupid computer? Sep 07 10:31:12 What type of card is it? Sep 07 10:31:12 I only came here because all of you are nerds. Thought I might find a friendly one that can help me out. *lol* Sep 07 10:31:23 Haha, i probably could. :-) Sep 07 10:31:28 It's a Radeon zhazhou. Sep 07 10:31:50 A PCI-E, right? Sep 07 10:31:53 Damn, that's a weird name you have their. Took me 6 tries just to type it! :) Sep 07 10:32:09 You should use tab-completion. :-) Sep 07 10:32:48 You know what zhaozhou, I'm not sure. I have the card and the CD, but there's nothing on it that says what it really is. Sep 07 10:33:45 You should check that before you buy em. Nowerdays, most cards are PCE-E 16x, but if you buy one that's not compatible with your motherboard, you wont be able to use it. Sep 07 10:34:04 The only thing I see that is distinguishable (God, I can't spell) is at the bottom of the CD.... It says "ATI015-x" Sep 07 10:34:37 I tried to Google it and came up with squadoosh! Sep 07 10:34:46 Does'nt say me anything, actually. :-) Sep 07 10:35:07 Whats the card model? Sep 07 10:35:35 Do clue. Where can I find that out? I've only got the CD and card with me. Sep 07 10:35:46 No = Do. Stupid brain. :( Sep 07 10:36:24 Should be printed on the card, i think. Sep 07 10:36:42 I stuck the graphic's card in my computer and was greeted with unrelenting, obessive beeping from hell. That's about the best I can tell you. Sep 07 10:36:57 Okay, I've got the card on my lap. Sep 07 10:37:19 Where do I look? I've checked the whole thing.... There's nothing really there to look at. Sep 07 10:37:22 THen you could check if there is some type of input on the side, should be 4pins in a square Sep 07 10:37:51 Yep, I've got that. Sep 07 10:38:08 Addison, Right, that's a power input, the card wont start without separate power Sep 07 10:38:36 Addison, On your power supply you should have one of those Sep 07 10:38:54 Addison, Most probably sais 'PCI-E' on the cable Sep 07 10:39:09 Oh Duh! That's why my computer was going into old maid in constant menapause. The card had no juice to it. Sep 07 10:39:26 Exactly. :D Sep 07 10:39:55 Addison, Just to be sure, there is only one of those 4pins powerinputs, right? Sep 07 10:39:57 Okay, so the four pins which is on my right side, what goes into it? Sep 07 10:40:06 Yeah, just one. Sep 07 10:40:40 Addison, You should, as i said, have one of those going out of your power supply Sep 07 10:42:05 Oh shit, you lost me. The card is on my lap right now. My Emachine piece of fluffy turd that's 6 years old is opened though. Sep 07 10:42:32 I don't get the whole power supply thing. Sep 07 10:42:48 6 years old, huh, lets hope it has one of these then. Sep 07 10:43:24 I don't know if it's the right word, but i think it's called the power supply, right? Sep 07 10:44:19 Hey, I think I see where you're coming from. I've got a couple of wires just hanging out in the breeze with plastic crap attached to them. The wires are yellow, black, black, and red. Sep 07 10:44:47 Haha, yeah, the power supply is the thing those are coming out of. :-) Sep 07 10:45:06 That's the exact thing you want, but they should be in a square. Sep 07 10:45:11 Dear lord, I should be shot just on general principle. *lol* Sep 07 10:45:49 Is it okay if I connect them now? I don't want to die a horrible, searing death. :) Sep 07 10:46:08 If you found one that fits, just plug it in, it cant fail. :-) Sep 07 10:46:49 Okay, it's plugged in. Sep 07 10:47:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PSU-gold-full_set.jpg <- middle right, square one, that's the one you want. :-) Sep 07 10:47:18 The card is still outside my delapidated (again, I can't spell) computer. Sep 07 10:48:35 Just plug it in the PCI-E port, then try booting the computer Sep 07 10:51:25 lbreakout - best. game. ever. Sep 07 10:55:59 Hey, sorry for the long pause, Zhao... But my computer just squibbed on me. Sep 07 10:56:38 After I plugged in the power supply thingie, my computer crashed within 30 seconds. Sep 07 10:58:42 Hey zhaozou, care to take this to a private chat since it's off topic here at this forum? Sep 07 10:59:38 Sure thing. :-) Sep 07 11:33:10 lol . . . the BBC, apparently, thinks Florida is run by Jesus. Sep 07 11:35:00 why? Sep 07 11:35:09 Khertan1, there is something wrong when one of our prolific developers hands in the towel, i hope its only the ML you are removing self from Sep 07 11:35:23 lcuk, it's just -developers. Sep 07 11:35:34 mavhc, the reporter kept calling him "Christ" Sep 07 11:35:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Crist Sep 07 11:36:06 GeneralAntilles, thats just ingrained spelling cockup Sep 07 11:36:26 have we heard from khertan himself that its just ml? Sep 07 11:36:29 I related news, Cuba is fucked. Sep 07 11:36:39 lcuk, check the scrollback. Sep 07 11:36:55 i dont have one - i only logged in a few minutes ago Sep 07 11:36:59 Just over an hour ago Sep 07 11:37:02 ~irc-logs Sep 07 11:37:06 ~maemo-log Sep 07 11:37:10 ~maemo-logs Sep 07 11:37:11 i guess maemo-logs is IRC channels are logged at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog Sep 07 11:37:20 ~irc-logs is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog Sep 07 11:37:21 GeneralAntilles: okay Sep 07 11:37:26 no need GeneralAntilles :) your word is good enough Sep 07 11:37:58 you have a commanding voice of reason (sometimes :P) Sep 07 11:38:46 anything else happened whilst i was off? any new releases? streakers runnin through the chan? etc Sep 07 11:39:02 Nothing interesting Sep 07 11:39:19 * GeneralAntilles bought a giant steak for dinner tonight. Sep 07 11:39:37 i hope that doesnt attract the devil things Sep 07 11:39:56 Hehe Sep 07 11:40:00 I'm too far inland here. :D Sep 07 11:40:02 mmm Steak and noodles Sep 07 11:40:14 Pan-seared ribeye. Sep 07 11:40:17 regarding your beagle, how warm does it get? does it stay at ambient Sep 07 11:40:21 Gotta disconnect the smoke alarm. . . . Sep 07 11:40:21 fry some egg noodles in the steak juices Sep 07 11:40:31 yep Ribeye is best Sep 07 11:40:37 mornin lbt Sep 07 11:40:43 afternoon Sep 07 11:40:50 lcuk, I don't think the powersaving is as aggressive as it could be with the current kernel. Sep 07 11:40:54 just been cooking the duck... Sep 07 11:40:57 its mornin in this house :P i cant smell the bacon Sep 07 11:41:08 It's running at 500MHz, so 100MHz under max Sep 07 11:41:20 im thinking in ragard to a box Sep 07 11:41:22 very foody today Sep 07 11:41:28 Sitting in u-boot (without any powersaving at all) it's hot, but not too-hot-to-touch Sep 07 11:41:39 A little hotter than the back of your N810 might get when it's really under load. Sep 07 11:41:41 do you cook duck often lbt, or is this an experiment? Sep 07 11:41:46 does the beagle have wifi? Sep 07 11:41:46 Booted into something it's just a little warm Sep 07 11:41:50 my 810 can become quite warm Sep 07 11:41:53 lbt, nope. Sep 07 11:42:00 whenever it's half prce at sainsburys Sep 07 11:42:01 morning Sep 07 11:42:04 The idea was to let the user provide all the extra stuff Sep 07 11:42:13 and keep the board itself as cheap, small, and simple as possible. Sep 07 11:42:23 there are thumbnail usb wifis though Sep 07 11:42:25 IIRC Sep 07 11:42:32 I wanted a pictureframe Sep 07 11:42:40 a 19" one Sep 07 11:42:55 just grab a proper wifi picture frame and hack linux onto it - it hsould have everything needed Sep 07 11:43:07 USBNet is kinda what you're likely to use out-of-the-box. Sep 07 11:43:25 not seen any reliably hackable ones Sep 07 11:43:44 i suppose its knowledge of whats in use Sep 07 11:43:50 yes Sep 07 11:43:55 lbt: old laptop Sep 07 11:43:59 yeah Sep 07 11:44:01 i bet theres a group of hackers sat in some random irc channel discussing dinner and frames Sep 07 11:44:13 hmmm, dinner Sep 07 11:44:20 * aquatix oggles clock Sep 07 11:44:28 lunch time :/ Sep 07 11:44:29 lcuk, I built this instead of a real case. :P http://flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/tags/beagleboard/ Sep 07 11:44:33 a 19" lcd (duck) monitor will fit a beagle inside Sep 07 11:44:37 OI, put your clock away, this is a family channel Sep 07 11:45:00 sorry Sep 07 11:45:01 lbt, I tossed the idea of hacking the Beagle into one of my Samsung LCDs for kicks. Sep 07 11:45:21 why? Sep 07 11:45:34 But Samsung ruined the idea by actually having a really small LCD all-in-one. Sep 07 11:45:37 GeneralAntilles, that will do you for a while - its just a way to stop accidental breakage Sep 07 11:45:41 Freak people out Sep 07 11:45:45 yer gen, thats a nice monitor Sep 07 11:45:55 lcuk, I mostly just want to keep the cat from playing with it. Sep 07 11:46:06 but the cat wants to run linux Sep 07 11:46:11 I'll build a real case whenever I go visit home and my dad's tools. ;) Sep 07 11:46:17 She wants to play with the puppy. Sep 07 11:46:25 mmm puppies Sep 07 11:46:36 do you have a pair of puppies? Sep 07 11:46:44 Nah, just one. Sep 07 11:46:45 we do Sep 07 11:47:03 Cats and puppies Sep 07 11:47:04 * lcuk is a cat person Sep 07 11:47:12 It's funny, my cat used to just love dogs. Sep 07 11:47:22 been bitten and jumped on by too many dogs for me to consider having any Sep 07 11:47:23 We had a golden retriever that would clean all the cats Sep 07 11:47:30 * lbt has 5^H 4^H 3 cats Sep 07 11:47:37 so you'd go down to pet a cat and get your hand covered in dog slobber. Sep 07 11:47:50 Then the golden died and we ended up with two lapdogs Sep 07 11:47:53 The cat doesn't like dogs anymore. Sep 07 11:47:58 lbt - did you have 5 to begin with? or kittens that are going to other homes? Sep 07 11:48:18 5, then they got older... Sep 07 11:48:30 lapdogs, is that like going from a desktop computer to a laptop? Sep 07 11:48:31 had Minka for 19 years Sep 07 11:49:13 FYI : http://science.slashdot.org/science/08/09/07/0334251.shtml Sep 07 11:49:14 These evil things: http://www.smallpawsrescue.org/pup3/buttonsheart.jpg Sep 07 11:49:16 at my mums I grew up with a georgeous bermese - he had a similar life Sep 07 11:49:34 GeneralAntilles: there's a cat like that near here... Sep 07 11:49:52 A cat that's a dog? Sep 07 11:50:15 rat Sep 07 11:50:29 it's a Blofeld cat Sep 07 11:50:50 (sp? - the 007 bad guy) Sep 07 11:51:33 No mr Lbt, I expect you to spell check Sep 07 11:53:19 lbt, do you just lurk in /. or are you active? Sep 07 11:53:43 frontpage only most of the time Sep 07 11:54:06 lcuk's "that Windows guy" on /. :P Sep 07 11:54:16 lol, im not actually :P Sep 07 11:54:40 i dont like the changes they made to logged out standard comments list Sep 07 11:55:06 Hey GA, why don't you stop trying to be everyone's father and just be a nice guy for a moment? Sep 07 11:56:12 ? Sep 07 11:56:28 Addison, if you're going to continue to troll in here without provocation, then I'm just going to ban you. Sep 07 11:56:37 Consider this your first of 2 warnings. :) Sep 07 11:56:52 Sorry, personal grief. GA upsets me with his constant, unrelenting comments from everywhere. :) Sep 07 11:57:40 addison, if you have seen GAs desktop - he has 5 monitors and 2 nits, each of them a different site or chan and he types on each of them and sometimes gets mixed up Sep 07 11:57:45 its not his fault really :D Sep 07 12:00:10 Wow, 5 monitors and 2 nits? That's so hard core! What a cool person he must be! He must be having sex right now!!!! *lol* Sep 07 12:00:45 ghehe Sep 07 12:00:48 he is - theres a special hole in his beagleboard box just for the purpose :D Sep 07 12:01:04 I have 7 monitors, 4 pcs, 3 servers, 4 pdas Sep 07 12:01:05 the goggles! they do nothing! Sep 07 12:01:11 just imagine the gang bang Sep 07 12:01:15 What's a beagleboard? Sorry, just a little slow witted on my end. Sep 07 12:01:26 it's a puppy in a box Sep 07 12:01:35 lol Sep 07 12:01:43 http://flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/2835929206/ Sep 07 12:01:45 see Sep 07 12:02:13 aw, the poor animal is getting probed Sep 07 12:02:33 hey GeneralAntilles, you have it hooked up with proper video out now? Sep 07 12:02:56 talking about wasted space: http://flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/2835929160/in/photostream/ :) Sep 07 12:02:57 GeneralAntilles, have you slept? Sep 07 12:03:27 aquatix: you have no clue about cooling do you? Sep 07 12:03:47 THIS IS SPARTAN! http://www.flickr.com/photos/32615155@N00/2785541252/in/pool-beagleboard Sep 07 12:03:48 crashanddie, nah, not yet. Sep 07 12:03:57 mornin crashanddie Sep 07 12:04:03 hey lcuk Sep 07 12:04:19 lbt: like a closed cardboard box will not heat up inside :) Sep 07 12:04:30 not sure how much heat that board generates though Sep 07 12:04:36 GeneralAntilles, so, my sleeping pattern is fucked up, I'm drifting about 5 hours east, and you're doing the same? Sep 07 12:04:37 he's not installed the puppy yet Sep 07 12:04:56 (it's evaporative cooling from puppy slobber) Sep 07 12:05:02 lbt: :) Sep 07 12:05:04 Yeah, I'm bad, just getting up for class a few hours at a time in the morning. :\ Sep 07 12:05:04 hence 'beagleboard' Sep 07 12:05:13 as long as he doesnt leave it in the car on a sunny day i tihnk it will be ok Sep 07 12:05:17 theres enough airholes in the box Sep 07 12:05:40 So you don't actually have a job then, is that correct GA? Sep 07 12:06:03 aquatix, the whole thing draws about 2W under extreme load. Sep 07 12:06:14 yeah, i remembered something like that Sep 07 12:06:25 it's a nice setup you have Sep 07 12:06:43 just struck me as funny that such a small board was put in a rather `large' box :) Sep 07 12:06:56 aquatix, didn't have anything smaller handy. :D Sep 07 12:07:02 I could fit about 6 of those boards in there Sep 07 12:07:14 all this cool beagleboard stuff is making me hungry for the N900 :) Sep 07 12:07:19 ooh, beowolf cluster! Sep 07 12:07:21 Well, I guess there's the box it came in, but I didn't feel like chopping that up. Sep 07 12:07:28 Addison, don't push your luck. Sep 07 12:08:47 Hey GA, go fuck yourself! You're a dick, just live up to it. Trust me, I won't come back here. I personally could care less. Sep 07 12:09:25 I don't know which of his relatives I raped and murdered, but DAMN. Sep 07 12:09:56 * qwerty12_N800 has 1337 spam in my gmail. :blink: Sep 07 12:10:23 i have 3043 Sep 07 12:10:30 since yesterday :P Sep 07 12:10:42 my number is better :p Sep 07 12:11:03 * lcuk sends you some so you aren't 1337 anymore Sep 07 12:11:10 lol Sep 07 12:12:11 ~curse dpkg Sep 07 12:12:11 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, dpkg ! Sep 07 12:12:13 ill bbl folks Sep 07 12:14:24 This is actually pretty good: http://www.acmesystems.it/?id=4 Sep 07 12:15:00 MIPS, eh? Sep 07 12:15:46 Yeesh Sep 07 12:15:49 $200? Sep 07 12:15:52 Pretty dated, usb 1.1? Sep 07 12:16:51 hi Sep 07 12:17:47 hi wwhat is a good reeader for text files oon maemo? is it possible to removee the formattting bar, in Notes, for example?? Sep 07 12:18:16 fbreader Sep 07 12:18:32 What qwerty12_N800 said. Sep 07 12:19:39 thanks!! Sep 07 12:21:17 Hello, dneary. Sep 07 12:22:05 GeneralAntilles, it's too bad there are nearly no alternative projects for the Beagle Board Sep 07 12:22:20 Alternative hardware or alternative software projects? Sep 07 12:22:38 software Sep 07 12:22:48 and hardware too I guess Sep 07 12:23:01 Beagle aint got a Maemo equivalent? ;) Sep 07 12:23:06 good luck at that sumit later thiis month == looks impressive Sep 07 12:23:14 I mean, excepted the GNU Radio thing, there's NIL to do Sep 07 12:24:04 Other than the same stuff you could do with a slightly larger and more power hungry x86 board. Sep 07 12:24:09 "Emma télé est allumée, Emma tais toi" Sep 07 12:24:42 GeneralAntilles, yeah, but that's the whole point, I want to be hacking, I want to be doing crazy stuff... Not the same stuff my laptop can handle :P Sep 07 12:24:49 Right Sep 07 12:24:59 Well, find small places to stick it. :P Sep 07 12:25:07 A carputer project is high on my list. Sep 07 12:25:15 yeah, I hear ya Sep 07 12:25:25 I kinda like Benson's backback personal-network server idea. Sep 07 12:25:27 mobile ftp and web server? Sep 07 12:25:33 If I actually carried a backpack Sep 07 12:26:04 Or didn't already have all of that provided by my pocket personal-network. . . . Sep 07 12:26:12 qwerty12_N800, there's no such thing as "outdated" Sep 07 12:26:25 But, you're right, it's less revolutionary than it is evolutionary. Sep 07 12:26:42 crashanddie: usb 1.1 is still slow as shit Sep 07 12:26:54 qwerty12_N800, so what, it runs a 100Mhz CPU lol Sep 07 12:27:03 it's not meant for speed Sep 07 12:27:05 I think it signifies interesting things for the future of high-end ARM CPUs. Sep 07 12:27:12 crashanddie: true :p Sep 07 12:27:13 even usb 2.0 is slow Sep 07 12:27:20 * GeneralAntilles has some hopes for breaking the stranglehold x86 has on the market. Sep 07 12:27:33 but those expansion ports are just insane... Have you seen the dev board you just glue on it? Now there's some hacking ! Sep 07 12:27:49 Hehe Sep 07 12:27:54 Lots and lots of buses to play with. Sep 07 12:27:54 GeneralAntilles: does it run windows? :P Sep 07 12:28:03 jott, actually, yeah, it can Sep 07 12:28:08 jott, I bet you could finagle CE on there. ;) Sep 07 12:28:24 ce != "windows" :P Sep 07 12:28:36 Or the old and tired answer "3.11" Sep 07 12:28:43 Actually, I bet the Beagle could handle 98 Sep 07 12:28:53 dneary, fix this: http://maemo.org/vote/ Sep 07 12:29:11 but but, does it run linux? Sep 07 12:29:13 couldn't the beagle board emulate a x86 instruction set? Sep 07 12:29:13 * aquatix ducks Sep 07 12:29:15 so many different operating sy Sep 07 12:29:22 still, most of the x86 stranglehold is due to microsoft.. :/ Sep 07 12:29:26 crashanddie, sure, same way the tablets do. Sep 07 12:29:35 DOSBox or somesuch Sep 07 12:29:47 systems all sayingnwindows Sep 07 12:30:52 I'm pleased, no one yelled "OMG Winblows on the NIT, ARE YOU mad?" Sep 07 12:31:00 jott, sad thing is, there's no other way to fight it than other hegemony :D Sep 07 12:31:04 OMG Winblows on the NIT, ARE YOU mad? Sep 07 12:31:10 ^ Sep 07 12:31:17 (main disadvantage of Linux on desktop: there's >1 way to do it :) Sep 07 12:31:22 * GeneralAntilles throws rotten eggs at crashanddie. Sep 07 12:31:36 qwerty12_N800, I will slap you in the face for that Sep 07 12:31:48 crashanddie: sure Sep 07 12:32:59 GeneralAntilles, our troll could be using wifi, some wifi he hacked? The info I found doesn't add up. Sep 07 12:33:34 * GeneralAntilles suddenly feels like he's in the trailer for the next big spy action flick. Sep 07 12:34:37 will the beagleboard save the world?! [insert dramatic music] Sep 07 12:34:43 GeneralAntilles, we know he's in southern Poland, we have a huge list of activity (time and IP), we can always contact his ISP to have him shut up Sep 07 12:35:05 Nah, that's no fun Sep 07 12:35:11 why would any isp care? Sep 07 12:35:16 The internet wouldn't be the internet without people like Darius. Sep 07 12:36:11 jott, trolls are considered abuse, and given enough complaints, you will see your connection canceled Sep 07 12:36:18 s/canceled/cancelled/ Sep 07 12:36:19 crashanddie meant: jott, trolls are considered abuse, and given enough complaints, you will see your connection cancelled Sep 07 12:36:22 huh? trolls abuse?! Sep 07 12:36:38 you are kidding ... Sep 07 12:36:47 no I'm not Sep 07 12:37:04 any significant case in poland to prove that?! Sep 07 12:37:16 in poland? Sep 07 12:37:20 Erhm, no Sep 07 12:37:21 would have gained big media attention. Sep 07 12:37:32 But I think I have a couple in France Sep 07 12:37:45 france is sick for that matter :) Sep 07 12:37:59 agreed, they were just banned from newsgroups, the ISP cut their access to any newsgroup Sep 07 12:38:12 Interesting bit at the end of pvanhoof's latest post: "We'll most likely use this on the Maemo platform for thumbnailing ourselves". Sep 07 12:38:27 Just for the tracker-based search or better media player etc. Hmm? Sep 07 12:38:29 * pvanhoof innocent Sep 07 12:38:54 "thumbnailing", is that slang for masturbation? Sep 07 12:39:12 only if your knob is tiny Sep 07 12:39:14 pvanhoof: interesting stuff :) Sep 07 12:39:41 qwerty12_N800 would know all about that. :D Sep 07 12:39:58 crashanddie, :) Sep 07 12:40:34 qwerty12_N800, oh come on, don't pick on the kid, he's only 6 years younger than you Sep 07 12:40:38 GeneralAntilles: lol, I'm working with big guns here, go back to doing the beagleboard :p :D Sep 07 12:40:43 "As I see, some developers at Maemo are overcharged with bad energy and devil's frustration , so just let me live in peace, far from your virtual problems and your off-topics spamming my mailbox." Sep 07 12:40:58 I'm gonna have to remember that one. Sep 07 12:41:03 "bad energy and devil's frustration" Sep 07 12:41:47 Who wants to put together a screenplay for a musical based on the rants of Darius Jack? Sep 07 12:42:04 This last one has already got pretty good timing. Sep 07 12:43:30 "[developers] driven by egoistic Self EGO killing Maemo community project" Sep 07 12:43:55 otoh, he is right with that. i don't get all this extreme whining about him.... Sep 07 12:43:58 Given he's requesting to be removed, can I put his email address into the "unsubscribe over the web" box on the mailing list homepage? Sep 07 12:44:13 no Sep 07 12:44:20 list-master is supposed to take care of that Sep 07 12:44:24 Bah. He'd still get a confirmation email. Sep 07 12:44:42 crashanddie: listmaster should just say "go here and enter your email addresS" Sep 07 12:44:49 who's up for a spot of hacking, old chaps? Sep 07 12:44:57 * crashanddie raises hand Sep 07 12:45:12 He's already said he's done with the list once Sep 07 12:45:18 We'll see how long this one sticks. Sep 07 12:45:35 Jaffa, we're going to see a flying shit explode over your head, it shows your IP address to him? He's going to go mental, trust me Sep 07 12:45:44 I've just reflashed my N810, installed some ssh keys today, changed the hostname, installed pidgin, set up some accounts, etc Sep 07 12:45:55 Now I reboot, and the blue slider goes to 100%, then nothing Sep 07 12:46:02 He says that, but he doesn't mean it, he hopes we're going to feel guilty, and say "oooh, nooo, Darius, stay" Sep 07 12:46:08 I have enabled the lock code Sep 07 12:46:15 Is there anything I can do to debug? Sep 07 12:46:31 jott, you used up all your energy on the election procedures? :P ;) Sep 07 12:46:47 btw, how the fuck do I know what my lock code is on the device? Sep 07 12:46:55 12345 by default Sep 07 12:46:58 ah Sep 07 12:47:02 GeneralAntilles: nah, i just don't care about a troll like him... Sep 07 12:47:04 if you changed it, it's somewhere on the config partition. Sep 07 12:47:36 nha it's cool, cheers Sep 07 12:47:56 * Jaffa sends him a private email with a direct link which submits the 'unsubscribe me from this list' form Sep 07 12:48:28 Jaffa: tiny url it too Sep 07 12:48:37 Anyone? Sep 07 12:49:29 crashanddie: easy way to get lockcode: http://austinche.name/maemo/getlockcode else you can cat /dev/mtd1ro and get to searching Sep 07 12:50:12 how is the security on the lock, btw? Sep 07 12:50:12 and things like harassing and insulting him is just stupid and childish... Sep 07 12:50:14 I never used it Sep 07 12:50:52 crashanddie: not much. as you just saw, it's easy to get the code Sep 07 12:51:21 qwerty12_N800, yeah, but that means you need access to the device, right? Sep 07 12:51:27 qwerty12_N800, which, if locked, is a bit hard Sep 07 12:52:00 crashanddie: someone can also flash a preprepared image of bootmenu and delete /sbin/devlock-blocker Sep 07 12:52:10 hmm, ok Sep 07 12:53:32 Does anyone know how to debug a tablet that won't boot? Sep 07 12:53:57 chmac, did you apt-get update && apt-get upgrade? Sep 07 12:54:22 crashanddie: I enabled red pill mode then upgraded everything "update all" Sep 07 12:54:37 lol. . . . Sep 07 12:54:38 chmac, through the app manager or apt? Sep 07 12:54:39 Nice one. Sep 07 12:54:46 crashanddie: the app manager Sep 07 12:54:48 oh shit, no diff Sep 07 12:54:53 chmac, reflash Sep 07 12:54:56 What on earth drove you to do that? Sep 07 12:54:57 :( Sep 07 12:55:01 GeneralAntilles: lol Sep 07 12:55:04 I need to find that guide and kill it with fire. Sep 07 12:55:14 GeneralAntilles, I did a sudo gainroot; apt-get upgrade -f Sep 07 12:55:28 Is there a specific update that causes the issue? Sep 07 12:55:36 Or how do I keep the tablet up to date after I reflash it again? Sep 07 12:55:40 crashanddie, Red Pill in Application manager exposes some magic packages which seem DESIGNED to break the system. Sep 07 12:55:45 chmac, don't enable rep pill mode Sep 07 12:55:49 ^ Sep 07 12:55:55 Red Pill is never the answer. Sep 07 12:55:56 s/rep/red/ Sep 07 12:55:57 crashanddie meant: chmac, don't enable red pill mode Sep 07 12:56:11 I like the infobot :) Sep 07 12:56:15 That's like the sledgehammer of solutions. Sep 07 12:56:21 GeneralAntilles: Better to use apt-get? Sep 07 12:56:25 90% of the time it's way too much for the job Sep 07 12:56:37 I never saw the point of using red pill btw Sep 07 12:56:39 the 10% of the time it's actually appropriate, things are coming down anyway. ;) Sep 07 12:56:48 I wanted to install avahi, which wasn't showing up without it Sep 07 12:56:52 I prefer using apt-* by far Sep 07 12:56:53 chmac, no, just update through the application manager. Sep 07 12:57:03 Anything that doesn't show in application manager you install through apt-get Sep 07 12:57:13 Ok :) Sep 07 12:57:30 Honestly you're better off reflashing at this point. Sep 07 12:57:34 chmac, if you're running diablo, you'll get a warning about updates anyway Sep 07 12:59:00 Ok, lesson learned Sep 07 12:59:08 oh, so red pill is a bad idea? Sep 07 12:59:09 I borked it a few weeks back and have finally just gotten round to reinstalling everything Sep 07 12:59:17 Mikho, yes. Sep 07 12:59:17 chmac, I did it too at some point Sep 07 12:59:29 good thing I decided to look at the scrollback this time Sep 07 12:59:34 Mikho, Red Pill is only to be used in small doses if you know exactly what you're doing. ;) Sep 07 13:00:01 But sadly, because it's such a cool thing, with matrix and all Sep 07 13:00:23 lots of people who don't understand what it does like to recommend it as some sort of magical fix-all. Sep 07 13:00:53 hmm, I wonder if it was possible to install xterm in n770 without the pill... Sep 07 13:01:00 btw, talking about matrix, is there a decent matrix-scrolling-characters app for Maemo? Sep 07 13:01:00 Yes. Sep 07 13:01:23 crashanddie, we seriously don't have the LCD bandwidth Sep 07 13:01:34 Only way that'd work is if you convince lcuk to do it. Sep 07 13:01:51 GeneralAntilles, we can play video, surely we could do that? Sep 07 13:02:06 Yes, it CAN be done. Sep 07 13:02:11 crashanddie, videos are YUV Sep 07 13:02:17 But liqbase is the only piece of technology with the ability to do it. Sep 07 13:02:21 \o/ Sep 07 13:02:31 gamma leaking portal technology Sep 07 13:02:34 It'd make a pretty awesome demo module. Sep 07 13:03:21 why do you think i start with stars gen? Sep 07 13:03:30 Ok, now to reinstall all over again. At least it'll be fresh in my mind! :) Sep 07 13:03:45 i was gonna add sinus scrolling text but i thought it was a bit retro Sep 07 13:04:05 lol Sep 07 13:04:20 lcuk: plasmas! rotating tori! copperbars! :) Sep 07 13:04:26 I'm thinking about selling my n810 btw Sep 07 13:04:37 hi, anyone knows how can I link my app against libqt4's debug libs instead of the normal ones? apparently I can't just set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the correct libpath as the qt4 debug libs are named like the normal ones, but there's ".debug" appended to them Sep 07 13:04:38 Is it possible to remotely control the tablet by the likes of vnc? Sep 07 13:04:45 So I don't have to keep switching to that screen :) Sep 07 13:04:55 jott, when i rebuilt my colorcube to work at arbitary dimensions (instead of just 256^2) i thought instantly of plasma Sep 07 13:04:59 chmac: Yes. Using VNC :) Sep 07 13:05:00 teprrr: you don't need to do an extra build Sep 07 13:05:01 crashanddie, in preparation for? Sep 07 13:05:09 GeneralAntilles, getting a WE Sep 07 13:05:10 teprrr: just install the debug packages and gdb etc. will use them Sep 07 13:05:16 WE? Sep 07 13:05:38 wimax editon? Sep 07 13:05:46 *edition Sep 07 13:05:50 aye Sep 07 13:06:01 Which you're planning to use, where, exactly? Sep 07 13:06:03 My camera's dead, the inbuilt mic seems to only work sometimes Sep 07 13:06:08 london Sep 07 13:06:18 crashanddie: is wimax gonna be any good in london? Sep 07 13:06:30 Jaffa: Is VNC server available for maemo? Sep 07 13:06:30 by 2012, prolly Sep 07 13:06:37 wimax != wimax. Sep 07 13:06:43 :) Sep 07 13:06:57 chmac, yes Sep 07 13:07:00 and client Sep 07 13:07:06 if anyone is going to launch a wimax service in the UK, it has to be for the Ogames, or never Sep 07 13:07:09 jott, I can't force it to use them if not running inside gdb? though even if I'm running inside the gdb, I can't do flush painting.. or isn't Xephyr X11 after all? Sep 07 13:07:24 crashanddie, i believe we have it in manchester or at least trials Sep 07 13:07:42 yeah, but the first big application will be the games, that's just obvious Sep 07 13:07:48 As jott says, WiMAX != WiMAX Sep 07 13:07:51 from pipex Sep 07 13:07:52 anyone with a little bit of brains can figure that out Sep 07 13:07:58 in somerfield stores (!?) Sep 07 13:08:01 Firstly, is it 2.5GHz? Sep 07 13:08:04 If not, no dice. Sep 07 13:08:28 well, I don't really care about WiMAX Sep 07 13:08:32 exit Sep 07 13:08:36 I just want the camera to work Sep 07 13:08:37 oops :) Sep 07 13:08:39 lcuk: Where is vnc server? I don't see it for diablo in http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php Sep 07 13:08:42 Warranty? Sep 07 13:08:46 furnsie, you are meant to type "beam me up" Sep 07 13:08:54 chmac, google x11vnc maemo Sep 07 13:09:01 It's not in a repo for some reason. Sep 07 13:09:08 no maintainer Sep 07 13:09:09 GeneralAntilles: Ok, thanks Sep 07 13:09:16 or not an active one Sep 07 13:09:20 Somebody should pick it up and push it to Extras. Sep 07 13:09:23 qwerty12_N800? Sep 07 13:09:28 GeneralAntilles, bought it from ebay Sep 07 13:09:41 send it back to ebay then :D Sep 07 13:09:44 GeneralAntilles, all the paperwork is in France, can't be arsed to send it off Sep 07 13:10:00 I like lcuk's plan. Sep 07 13:10:19 teprrr: what are you trying to do? the .debug libs are just unstripped versions of the original with extra debug symbols. Sep 07 13:10:32 GeneralAntilles: I'm already using the latest x11vnc but it's packaged dirty :/ Sep 07 13:10:54 Is that like riddin' dirty? Sep 07 13:11:02 what do i use to list the available exports inside my app, and can i call them from within my running program dynamically Sep 07 13:11:09 teprrr: there should be no difference in behaviour between the two versions. Sep 07 13:11:27 lcuk, environment variables? Sep 07 13:11:37 no, jumppoints Sep 07 13:12:05 GeneralAntilles: Not quite :p. I guess I could package a "clean" version for -extras but I like my one with xrdp too. Sep 07 13:12:06 so i can scan my binary at runtime and build up a list of specially suffixed functions available for use within the menus Sep 07 13:12:15 jott, one can use QT_FLUSH_PAINT only with debug libs to see which parts of the window are being painted Sep 07 13:12:18 crashanddie: you could order the spare camera for 3 euro :) Sep 07 13:12:25 jott, eh? Sep 07 13:12:45 Sounds like a bit of work to get x11vnc working. I'll probably stick to the stylus for now... Sep 07 13:12:48 (afaik) Sep 07 13:12:59 chmac, its just installing the deb? Sep 07 13:13:13 lcuk: Really? Ok, where do I get it? Sep 07 13:13:27 lcuk: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/x11vnc/ seems a bit old... Sep 07 13:13:27 crashanddie: http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=372103&eventPage=1 :) Sep 07 13:13:37 crashanddie: did you ever read the bits in the amsterdam stuff regarding the camera? Sep 07 13:13:45 nope Sep 07 13:13:46 chmac, december 2007 isnt that old Sep 07 13:13:56 lcuk: Maybe that's true, this is only 2008 :) Sep 07 13:14:23 and if its so out of date it just wont install Sep 07 13:14:50 teprrr: hum. shouldn't be the case. Sep 07 13:14:57 anyway, ive gotta get on Sep 07 13:16:24 hmm Sep 07 13:16:58 teprrr: really, the behaviour is identical on both versions. Sep 07 13:17:05 qinterface qstyle_interface = { q_magic,"qstyle",0,NULL,(void *)qstyle_free }; Sep 07 13:17:08 balls Sep 07 13:18:48 jott, hmm. looking at the code there's some define for checking whether it can be used. no idea though is QT_NO_DEBUG_PAINT (or something like that) is being defined for release builds. Sep 07 13:19:22 teprrr: really the .debug version is not a different build .. Sep 07 13:19:41 and i think it should be active... Sep 07 13:19:46 or better not set.. Sep 07 13:20:08 jott, ok. the problem lies somewhere else then.. although a bigger problem atm is that qmake doesn't seem to work inside sbox with armel target Sep 07 13:20:41 sigsegvs, just like uic-qt4 and others Sep 07 13:21:18 teprrr: i know. qemu is borked. you have to use the cvs-m version. Sep 07 13:21:32 qemu catches the signal actually.. could this happen because I'm running sbox inside virtualbox? Sep 07 13:21:44 ahh, humhum Sep 07 13:21:53 either export SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD=/scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-cvs-m Sep 07 13:22:02 or set it in your target config Sep 07 13:22:08 (to make it permanent) Sep 07 13:22:09 Is apt-cache the best tool to browse available packages? Is there anything better than `apt-cache search` ? Sep 07 13:22:33 chmac, umh, what do you need? Sep 07 13:22:44 dpkg -l can also be used to query package database Sep 07 13:23:05 teprrr: it's a bit unfortunate. i think maybe we could do a wrapper script for that, but that's still sub-optimal. Sep 07 13:23:30 teprrr: Ok, thanks. I typically use synaptic on my laptop because it's easier to search, double click something for more info, etc Sep 07 13:23:42 teprrr: it's due to the optimization flags used to build... Sep 07 13:24:06 chmac, aptitude or some other cli ui perhaps? Sep 07 13:24:41 jott, ah. will try that.. let's see Sep 07 13:24:42 teprrr: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/qt4-devel/2008-August/000053.html here is my post to the ml about it... Sep 07 13:26:47 Ok, I've reflashed, installed a few things (vncviewer, openssh, not much else), changed the hostname, installed all the updates, now I'm borked again Sep 07 13:26:52 moring. anyone ever install additional perl modules on you device or can point me to a link Sep 07 13:26:58 The blue bar scrolls to 100% then nothing... Sep 07 13:27:21 Is changing the hostname a big deal? Sep 07 13:28:55 jott, ah. thanks. seems to work.. hmm, can I change the config for the target without bootstrapping the target again? Sep 07 13:30:28 snakemountain1: `apt-get' and `perl -MCPAN' should both just work Sep 07 13:30:42 danka, i'll give it a try Sep 07 13:30:43 teprrr: yes, just edit /scratchbox/users/$USER/targets/xxxx.config Sep 07 13:31:44 jott, cool, thanks a lot :) Sep 07 13:31:52 ls Sep 07 13:31:57 oops Sep 07 13:35:00 Has the OS2008 Feature upgrade (4.2008.30-2) caused anyone issues? Sep 07 13:38:47 4.2008.30-2? I'm still on 4.2008.23... damn :-D Do I need to reflash once again? Sep 07 13:39:41 ~ssu Sep 07 13:39:42 methinks ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU Sep 07 13:39:53 thanks Sep 07 13:49:43 in c, if ive got a struct with lets say 5 members { int a,b,c,d,e; } if i use an initializer on the first 3 ie. struct A a = { 1,2,3 }; what happens to the uniniitialized items, am i safe to say they are NULL/0 ? Sep 07 13:50:07 undefined, I think. could be anything Sep 07 13:50:52 thats a shame Sep 07 13:50:54 can't say for sure, have you tested what it does? I doubt it'd initialize those to 0/NULL Sep 07 13:51:28 yes i tested, butl the "undefined" could simply be zero at this time with the memory allocated - they came out as null Sep 07 13:52:31 its in my head that if you init the first member in a constant { } block the remaining ones are set to 0, but i cant find anything to back up my thinking Sep 07 13:57:25 from a little googling at least A a = { .a=1, .b=2 } etc. work with C99 Sep 07 13:58:09 and hmm, the whole struct gets initialized according to some Random Poster :) Sep 07 13:58:24 i think it works, my concern was adding new members and having to run round and extend the constant initializers Sep 07 13:59:01 "The members without an explicit initialiser will be initialised to the Sep 07 13:59:02 right type of zero. Sep 07 13:59:23 from http://bytes.com/forum/thread200848.html Sep 07 13:59:43 that's somewhat understandable and very common among most compilers Sep 07 14:00:32 yes liri, im just having to declare some statics and am just a bit rusty on things i havent done since wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy back before 2000 Sep 07 14:00:33 it's generally unnecessary but I like to explicitly initialize to zero all elements in an array like this: char mybuff[SIZE] = {0}; Sep 07 14:01:50 thanks guys, ill get my head back into it now Sep 07 14:02:28 I'm wondering more and more what Nokia's got cooking with GUPnP Sep 07 14:06:17 Tablet has just borked for the 3rd time in a row... Sep 07 14:06:33 I'm learning all my various passwords / wpa keys by heart at this rate Sep 07 14:06:43 GeneralAntilles, network controlled lights Sep 07 14:06:53 lol Sep 07 14:07:13 GeneralAntilles: UPnP's already part of media player; if they're looking at tracker for more than just search - a better, full-blown UPnP media player with thumbnailing etc.? Sep 07 14:07:21 N900 will be sold with 3 complimentary SmartBulbs™? :D Sep 07 14:08:22 * Jaffa hopes we won't be disappointed with the fremantle stuff at the summit Sep 07 14:08:23 GAN800, nope. The next non-phone from Nokia will be the Nokia Internet Light Sep 07 14:08:35 it will have a revolutionary socket-based interface Sep 07 14:09:04 you want to make a call, you gotta shout up at your ceiling fan. Sep 07 14:09:27 * GAN800 loads up mediaserv. Sep 07 14:09:50 Q: Hi, can I overclock my Nokia Internet Light? I have 3-phase 380V power available. thx Sep 07 14:10:01 MicroB always chokes on the thumbnail generation in big folders Sep 07 14:10:33 I only get garbage for thumbnails anywat Sep 07 14:10:41 s/wat/way/ Sep 07 14:10:42 GAN800 meant: I only get garbage for thumbnails anyway Sep 07 14:11:14 GAN800: prepping a new mediaserv release atm. May be delayed a couple of hours. Trying to diagnose a "mencoder not being killed" problem. Sep 07 14:11:21 GAN800, nah, I think they want to focus on their core demographic which just use the tablets as pocket flashlights Sep 07 14:11:44 They do make awesome flashlights Sep 07 14:12:18 My friends always take out their cellphones, I take out 'The Illuminator'. Sep 07 14:13:49 You know, show me another handheld that you can watch TV, browse the web and irc with. . . . Sep 07 14:14:55 n810s should have backing tracks - when you unlock them they should play the THX deep note Sep 07 14:16:22 hmmm Sep 07 14:17:03 "I'm afraid I can't unlock the screen, Dave." Sep 07 14:17:33 the screen locking is a bit annoying to me - even when locked i can draw onto it Sep 07 14:17:53 You know what was a sound to behold? the 20th Anniversary Macintosh startup sound. Sep 07 14:18:15 * lcuk hacks all n8x0s at the summit to play windows startup sound Sep 07 14:21:58 * lcuk ties jott to the chanwall Sep 07 14:22:30 stupid session died :~( Sep 07 14:24:35 why are you keeping stupid sessions then, keep smart ones! Sep 07 14:24:53 i just tried just that :) Sep 07 14:25:30 the other one had to feel dash 9. Sep 07 14:26:12 vengeance! Sep 07 14:39:48 hi everyone. have you tried the openttd 0.6.2 from maemo extras-devel? i keep on getting segmentation fault everytime i try to run it Sep 07 14:59:21 Ok, so it seems adding "user ALL = (ALL) ALL" to visudo causes the system to bork Sep 07 14:59:24 Hmm Sep 07 14:59:52 Anyone know how I would file a suitable bug report? Sep 07 14:59:54 1. use visudo. 2. Wouldn't you want a NOPASSWD in there too? Sep 07 15:00:10 qwerty12: I guess that's the issue Sep 07 15:00:26 qwerty12: But I don't really want to give user nopasswd access to all commands Sep 07 15:01:13 But the user needs NOPASSWD sudo for some Sep 07 15:03:30 mikkov_: Can I steal your scripts to put data on the memory card? Sep 07 15:04:03 oh, the "dummy iap" is now "USB"? Sep 07 15:04:28 jott: it was fixed to take whatever name you give it. USB is given when you install the usb control panel applet. Sep 07 15:04:49 ah. Sep 07 15:04:59 so it does not actually work :) Sep 07 15:05:13 You can make multiple dummy entries like before now in Diablo using gconftool Sep 07 15:05:36 I currently have DEFAULT and DUMMY as a result of me messing around before the update :) Sep 07 15:06:05 well they just should stop being morons and release the source... Sep 07 15:06:18 so one could make a proper usb network connection.. Sep 07 15:06:23 +1 Sep 07 15:06:47 at least this stupid dummy network thingy could be released.. Sep 07 15:07:35 ah well nokia and open source is still a long way to go :) Sep 07 15:08:46 qwerty12: I was assuming all the NOPASSWD entries before the last one would apply first Sep 07 15:08:57 I'm sure that used to be the case as I had my previous tablet set up that way and I'm pretty sure it worked Sep 07 15:09:01 The recent updates have borked it though Sep 07 15:09:13 At least now, 4 reflashes later, I know what the problem is! Sep 07 15:09:26 I'm getting very good at the first few steps after a reflash Sep 07 15:09:34 I'm not really sure on how sudoers work. I just have sudser installed and that's it for me. Sep 07 15:10:51 qwerty12: sudser, does that allow you to sudo as user? Sep 07 15:10:58 yeah Sep 07 15:11:40 qwerty12: Hmm, I'll check it out, is it in extras? Sep 07 15:11:47 Yeah. Sep 07 15:35:40 Oh well, it seems I've found my issue at lesat Sep 07 15:35:47 The same thing happens before I install the OS2008 update Sep 07 16:38:19 qwerty12: yeah, use the scripts. You could also test if dh_fixperms --exclude dir is really needed. I think that updating or something didn't work without that. Sep 07 16:39:05 mikkov_: Thanks, should be useful. Sep 07 16:52:11 Google gets its own satellite: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10034476-93.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5 Sep 07 17:03:02 afternoon Sep 07 17:03:41 Hi lardman Sep 07 17:04:54 hey qwerty12 Sep 07 17:06:41 * qwerty12 curses as I realise I typed root instead of rott out of habit Sep 07 17:13:50 * lardman wonders if he should add a post to the "Council thread : who wants my vote - and why?" thread, sounds like a copy & paste job from a job application :) Sep 07 17:14:14 firefox 3 under osx keeps crashing Sep 07 17:17:21 brontide, wrong channel Sep 07 17:17:41 the only site that I was browsing at the time was the maemo wiki Sep 07 17:22:45 Damn, my Wiki login is still broken Sep 07 17:23:07 there isn't a software method to measure how much energy the tablet uses is there? Sep 07 17:23:08 darkblue_B: any thoughs on using avahi to advertise your web services over bonjour Sep 07 17:23:43 StsN800: uptime before it shuts down? Sep 07 17:24:17 hehe.. i was more thinking along the lines of powertop Sep 07 17:24:42 really though, is there a script somewhere to measure battery life? I could do with testing sbcenc Sep 07 17:25:00 lardman: it is easy to write Sep 07 17:25:16 lardman, kcbatt maybe Sep 07 17:25:16 RST38hL I know, I've just got other things to do as ever :) Sep 07 17:25:25 just read value from procfs (or whatever it is called) and drop it into a text file Sep 07 17:25:25 s/L/: Sep 07 17:25:34 StsN800: powertop requires a kernel with a funky .config option which the n800 doesn't like :/ Sep 07 17:25:36 lardman: yes, but it is 3-line easy =) Sep 07 17:25:54 RST38h: I'm 3-line busy! ;) Sep 07 17:26:35 actually I'd need to remember to charge my bt headset which is more of a problem Sep 07 17:26:50 hola Sep 07 17:27:03 [thtat was 3+ lines of IRC messages just now ;)] Sep 07 17:27:28 lardman: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=219869&postcount=21 - battery status from http://www.nitapps.com/ is needed which has a built in logging function. kcbatt - http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/kcbatt/ - is good to look at too Sep 07 17:27:34 yeah, I'm running at ~1% brain capactity atm to save on food Sep 07 17:28:09 cheers qwerty12 I'll take a look Sep 07 17:30:07 lardman, I know the feeling Sep 07 17:30:49 why does the firmware update program say "disconnect the charger", seems, well, crazy Sep 07 17:31:41 hi, can someone tell me how to listen to the right click events in hildon? Sep 07 17:32:02 mavhc: CO2 ;) Sep 07 17:33:32 would help if the download of the firmware wasn't really slow, is nokia running their servers on actual nokia products? Sep 07 17:34:18 so, anyone here tried the openttd 0.6.2 from maemo extras-devel? Sep 07 17:35:55 mavhc: because the NIT's are not really "off" when plugged in, they need to be cold booted to accept a new flash and that means unplugged so they truly turn off Sep 07 17:38:02 mavhc, it is a running joke here that maemo.org is run on 770s:P Sep 07 17:38:26 StsN800: I thought they were planning to upgrade to N800? Sep 07 17:39:29 yes, but they are beta testing soldering more ram on the 770s;) Sep 07 17:39:42 hehe Sep 07 17:47:43 right, I've just sent my job application ;) Sep 07 17:48:16 at least that's what if felt like Sep 07 17:53:04 we need more nice games on maemo that arent small mini-game like things ^^ Sep 07 17:53:36 someone can tell me some? only hex-a-hop is a great one. wesnoth too, but its not good playing on nxxx Sep 07 17:56:28 eichi: do it yourself ! Sep 07 18:12:46 well. there is still the openttd 0.6.2 that keeps segfaulting =/ Sep 07 18:16:43 I see the Google Street map in maemo mapper upside down :) Sep 07 18:17:55 liri: so dont hold your tablet uppside down! Sep 07 18:18:22 it's not heh Sep 07 18:18:30 seriously, is there a flip toggle there or what? Sep 07 18:21:05 oh, toggling auto rotate off does the job Sep 07 18:25:41 hm? tablet has inertia sensors? Sep 07 18:25:47 is there an easier way to zoom in/out without having to go to the menu? Sep 07 18:25:59 liri, use +/- keys? Sep 07 18:26:08 (I presume you're talking about maemo mapper) Sep 07 18:26:28 if they don't work for you, go to settings, visit 'hardware keys' section and put zoom in/out where you'd like it to be Sep 07 18:26:40 yeah maemo mapper on the n810 Sep 07 18:29:00 + and - are indeed set in the settings but it doesn't work Sep 07 18:32:54 I think there was a comment on that on the mapper's homepage. Sep 07 18:32:59 or in the help? Sep 07 18:39:58 I do like hexahop Sep 07 18:49:21 the help page doesn't have any info about it Sep 07 18:51:23 it has a reset button which I don't want to press Sep 07 18:54:49 hm... do I need to somehow tell fbreader to refresh its library? I've set the path right, but it doesn't seem to see the files, and I don't want to add them one by one. Sep 07 18:55:15 just add the first manually and normally by the time you've finished that its scanned and added the ones you expect Sep 07 18:55:43 yacoob: it only scans certain types of files automatically :( Sep 07 18:55:45 thou for ages i thought the library only showed items which you had read so didnt see it as a downside Sep 07 18:57:05 yacoob: whats a decent zoom level for street maps? Sep 07 18:58:16 liri, I use 5-8 mostly, but I'm only geocaching. You might want 10+ for driving a car... Sep 07 19:02:48 uh, tablet rebooted Sep 07 19:08:39 ahh ok Sep 07 19:09:03 well would be nice if I figured out how to use the + and - for zoom in/out Sep 07 19:11:01 qwerty12_N800: *trying to dpkg-buildpackage hildon-input-framework Sep 07 19:12:46 Stskeeps: cool, i'd have liked to have tried but networkmanager is disconnecting my net connection when I ssh into deblet :/ Sep 07 19:13:06 qwerty12_N800: yeah.. nfi what is amatter with NM. Think monkies wrote it. Sep 07 19:13:43 lol, i don't like networkmanager, keep it disabled on my desktop too Sep 07 19:14:12 there's always editing /etc/network/interfaces and overridingNM :P Sep 07 19:14:36 yep :) Sep 07 19:17:25 qwerty12_N800: i do wonder if a gtk program using hildon im through gtk im.. requires the whole hildon stuff running Sep 07 19:19:13 is there a reason gpe-calendar isn't in extras? Sep 07 19:22:13 qwerty12_N800: oh, and i'm doing this in deblet on my tablet. i think it's going to burst into flames. Sep 07 19:24:27 summatusmentis: it s in extras-devel Sep 07 19:25:12 qwerty12_N800: http://rafb.net/p/LZOa9S90.html <- woop Sep 07 19:25:46 what's the repo search? Sep 07 19:29:49 Stskeeps: brilliant! but the shlibs msgs aren't filling me with confidence :) Sep 07 19:30:26 qwerty12_N800: heh, and just had my deblet reboot :> Sep 07 19:31:11 I just keep my wd's off. easiest solution in kde + deblet... Sep 07 19:31:37 yeah.. wonder what causes it though Sep 07 19:31:43 i suspect oom killer not configured ight Sep 07 19:32:36 still no microsd cards larger than 8GB right? Sep 07 19:32:50 greetings. a small question: i just installed gcc 3.4 from the chinook repository. i tried compiling a simple hello world app but ld can't find crt1. i googled for quiet some time now but that didn't help. any tips are appreciated Sep 07 19:37:10 wb Sep 07 19:37:52 thx, i'm trying mpd Sep 07 19:46:04 * qwerty12-N800 internet connection fuxed up when attempting to install mpd :/ Sep 07 19:51:35 summatusmentis, nope Sep 07 19:52:28 summatusmentis, start of october 2008 Sep 07 19:52:36 "We are taking pre-orders now from the first UK shipment due in at the start of October 2008. When the stock arrives, orders will be filled based on the pre-order date. We do expect demand to outstrip supply on the product for much of Q4." Sep 07 19:52:45 "Our Price: £38.29 (£44.99 inc VAT)" Sep 07 19:57:42 lol @ 32Gb SD card: Weight: 0.4 kg Sep 07 19:58:04 qwerty12-N800: i did introduce a new optimization thing in /etc/init.d/boot-basics taken from maemo.. it may work counterproductive Sep 07 19:58:38 it hasn't been tested throughly :P (i guess this is one problem of alpha software..) Sep 07 19:58:56 :) Sep 07 20:01:41 who said a zoom of 10 is enough for car nav? hardly a 7 is enough :) Sep 07 20:03:03 qwerty12-N800: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/hildon-input-method-framework/ Sep 07 20:03:45 Thanks! I'll install when i'm in deblet later :) Sep 07 20:03:58 np Sep 07 20:04:07 roadmap has been quite stable for gps maps in the US Sep 07 20:04:11 didn't verify them yet but gonna play a bit now while the gf is soaking in the tub anyway.. :P Sep 07 20:05:08 Jaffa, are you around? Sep 07 20:08:35 lcuk: yup Sep 07 20:09:18 hi, just a quickie, your video converter - any idea how long it would take to run actually on the device? Sep 07 20:10:27 For a typical 640x368 DivX off the Internet to the lowest resolution preset: a realistic time, sub-realtime. Sep 07 20:10:56 Of course, if ssvb's optimisations for mplayer also affect the decoding in mencoder (and, ideally, the encoding) it mightn't be as long as one thought. Sep 07 20:10:59 i know it owuldnt be realtime - but im just thinking whilst its plugged in somewhere Sep 07 20:11:02 Would be interesting to know Sep 07 20:11:57 if i get round to it ill stick it on device and find out, was more curiosity than anything Sep 07 20:12:19 lcuk: yeah, is there a mencoder build? Sep 07 20:12:51 i dunno, ill look when i have a break later - i just wanted to see if anyones been mad enough yet Sep 07 20:12:58 yer, bundyo's got one from rc2 based off ssvb's mplayer rc1 Sep 07 20:13:30 cool Sep 07 20:13:43 * lcuk is making classes with inheritance in c. and they appear to work :S Sep 07 20:14:27 lcuk: just look at gtk+ and feel the pain =D Sep 07 20:15:27 bulle, im having to look everywhere BUT the pre-built stuff, ive somehow chosen the path of most spikey crushed glass sore knackers resistance :) Sep 07 20:15:53 * lcuk wishes graphics looked nice and pretty and fast using the default methods Sep 07 20:15:54 hehe Sep 07 20:18:27 thanks jaffa anyway, cyas later Sep 07 20:20:35 cya Sep 07 20:21:28 qwerty12-N800: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/h-i-m.png Sep 07 20:21:37 is kinda useless but it actually works.. Sep 07 20:22:25 >.<, I think it would work well in nit-env-stskeeps Sep 07 20:22:44 qwerty12-N800: for putting more fuglies on the screens? ;) Sep 07 20:23:11 nah, because n-e-s uses matchbox Sep 07 20:23:43 true Sep 07 20:23:54 iz progress however Sep 07 20:23:54 :P Sep 07 20:24:12 :) Sep 07 20:38:15 qwerty12-N800: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221728&postcount=19 for documentation Sep 07 20:40:49 Thanks, I really want to get ssh set up so I can compile but doing it using MB is gonna make me crazy. unless I chroot :/ Sep 07 20:42:01 got usbnet? Sep 07 20:42:07 there's a telnetd open on usb0 :P Sep 07 20:42:13 ah Sep 07 20:42:16 true, your kernel Sep 07 20:43:08 i cant think of anything else, i had the perfect working settings, nothing changed but it stopped working :/ Sep 07 20:56:02 qwerty12-N800: why did you thank me in your rott announcement? :) Sep 07 20:56:43 solmumaha: I'm using modified version of your scripts :) Sep 07 20:57:11 Right, tablet-encode v2.20 released. mediaserv v0.06 may have to wait another day. Sep 07 21:01:43 does your package update properly? Sep 07 21:03:09 I have a feeling it does, at least it reinstalled successfully while it was already installed. but i shift the data in the postinst, not the preinst Sep 07 21:13:41 lcuk, how is the apple keyboard in real world use? Sep 07 21:13:54 oh crap i missed him Sep 07 21:18:44 i havent used it recently, but everytime i pick it up i marvel at its feel and comfort Sep 07 21:19:01 not quite, im codin not climbin everest Sep 07 21:20:00 moontiger, the one thing i miss is delete. Sep 07 21:20:04 any of you people tried android on n8xx? Sep 07 21:20:36 yacoob: it's old now :/ (if you mean the installer) Sep 07 21:20:36 lcuk, can you not remap that key above backspace to be delete? Sep 07 21:20:58 i probably could but for the amount of times i use it i just curse and do it the other way Sep 07 21:21:18 shift right delete Sep 07 21:21:18 someone was telling me a simple xmodmap thingy would do the trick :) Sep 07 21:21:38 it proably would but im a clutz at things like that Sep 07 21:21:46 ohhhhhhh shift+delete = delete? Sep 07 21:22:01 qwerty12-N800, I'm rather interested in general impressions - provided that android can do all that maemo can do + have decent PIM - this might be interesting Sep 07 21:22:03 no, shift + move cursor over what i wanna delete then backspace Sep 07 21:22:11 is it big? i mean to carry around in my bag with my other stuff? Sep 07 21:22:38 http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=810cratelaptopmodetc6.jpg Sep 07 21:22:45 for context Sep 07 21:22:51 http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/keyboard/ Sep 07 21:23:38 thanks qwerty, saved and stored directly on my nokia :) Sep 07 21:24:05 * lcuk will do it when he needs it Sep 07 21:24:19 np, mgedmin has diablo versions of xev + xmodmap in his repo Sep 07 21:24:27 ive got xev here Sep 07 21:24:33 was looking for something the other day Sep 07 21:26:31 chrome fails @ wine Sep 07 21:32:36 I am having a tricky time allowing a user to install some software on the maemo. Basically I have a script (running as "user") that I want to run dpkg in. Sep 07 21:33:21 I have done a chown root:root myscript Sep 07 21:33:34 And then chmod aug+s myscript Sep 07 21:34:33 pretty sure you can't setuid a shellscript Sep 07 21:34:38 I thought that would cause my shell script to run with root privilages. But when I run it I get "dpkg: requested operation requires superuser privilege" Sep 07 21:34:48 Oh really? Does it need to be a binary? Sep 07 21:34:59 the binary running is the shell interpreter Sep 07 21:35:49 So I guess I could write a C program to wrap dpkg in a secure way (meaning I set the arguments) and setuid that binary. Sep 07 21:36:18 dskippy, why don't you just suid the dpkg? :) Sep 07 21:36:24 at that point I suggest just giving the user root Sep 07 21:36:24 (unless there's more than dpkg) Sep 07 21:36:53 Well I was hoping to avoid opening up a general usage program to avoid security issues. Sep 07 21:37:08 Though I don't really have much to worry about in my usage. Sep 07 21:37:22 I just was frustrated that I couldn't do it "the right way" (TM) Sep 07 21:38:25 Hello! Anyone have any tips for downloading firmware - it won't accept my ID # Sep 07 21:39:35 mdg, sure you're on the right page? Sep 07 21:39:36 dskippy: why do you want to use a script at all to install something? that's what dpkg/deb packages are for... Sep 07 21:40:16 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/os2008_hacker_edition.php - is this the right page? Sep 07 21:40:47 Yeah Sep 07 21:40:54 Is there something I'm not doing right in Linux mint? Sep 07 21:41:14 maybe I should try on my windows machine? Sep 07 21:41:31 Shouldn't matter Sep 07 21:41:40 I'm getting can't resolve symbol '__register_frame_info' running a binary in initfs under uclibc Sep 07 21:41:44 It is the Wifi WLAN MAC, right? Sep 07 21:41:52 yes Sep 07 21:42:00 I've tried both scratchbox uclibc versions Sep 07 21:42:09 any ideas? Sep 07 21:42:09 lbt: static compile Sep 07 21:42:22 I'll recheck cookies Sep 07 21:42:25 why does it even require the mac Sep 07 21:42:36 nope - just tried that Sep 07 21:42:55 damned watchdog just kicked me again... Sep 07 21:42:59 lbt: static should always work. make sure you really used -static :) Sep 07 21:43:03 hmm, all my initfs binaries work when static compiled Sep 07 21:43:15 gcc -B static Sep 07 21:43:33 -static Sep 07 21:43:54 Oh, must have read the wrong docs... Sep 07 21:43:56 OK Sep 07 21:44:36 still no luck Sep 07 21:44:57 I'll try my windows machine (ick!) Sep 07 21:45:51 lbt: enable rd-mode, dsme wont reboot after 4 mins. also, i find it's easier to put my initfs bonaries in /tmp in maemo over ssh and chroot /mnt/initfs and test like that Sep 07 21:46:04 s/bonaries/binaries/ Sep 07 21:46:04 qwerty12-N800 meant: lbt: enable rd-mode, dsme wont reboot after 4 mins. also, i find it's easier to put my initfs binaries in /tmp in maemo over ssh and chroot /mnt/initfs and test like that Sep 07 21:46:31 qwerty12-N800: good tips - thanks :) Sep 07 21:46:42 you actually don't need to chroot to test :) Sep 07 21:47:08 I wanted to be *absolutely* sure it was running against the initfs libraries... Sep 07 21:47:15 Actually "chmod ug+s /usr/bin/dpkg" doesn't even work. I still get the permission error when I run dpkg as user. Sep 07 21:47:35 it will not use the initfs libraries if it's static :P Sep 07 21:47:36 jott: true, if it's static it'll work anyway but i like the idea of running it in a initfs environment :) Sep 07 21:47:41 dpkg is probably bright enough to drop privs Sep 07 21:48:04 Damn dpkg and its brightness. Sep 07 21:48:06 dskippy: why do you want to do it in the fist place? Sep 07 21:48:34 do either of you guys run usbnet against a bleeding 2.62.7-rcX kernel? Sep 07 21:48:49 I get : unable to enumerate USB device on port 2 Sep 07 21:48:50 jott: Good question. I have a program that is running on several nokias. Updating them all when I want to make a change is very difficult. I want the nokia to check for new versions itself and install it. Sep 07 21:48:53 Kegetys, that should be fairly obvious. Sep 07 21:48:58 which *may* be a regression Sep 07 21:49:06 It's Nokia's way of ensuring you actually have a device Sep 07 21:49:07 dskippy: that's what package versions are for... Sep 07 21:49:13 I wish there was some Go training software for n810 Sep 07 21:49:15 and repositories.. Sep 07 21:49:17 Jott: Yes I know. Sep 07 21:49:19 and therefore a license to a lot of the stuff on the tablet. Sep 07 21:49:43 GeneralAntilles: but if its the wlan mac address then it should not be that difficult for someone to "steal" your MAC address Sep 07 21:49:45 Jott: It doesn't work though. I want it to run when the user runs my program, check for updates, and install them. Sep 07 21:49:53 Kegetys, that's not the point. Sep 07 21:50:06 It's to satisfy various third-party vendors and Nokia legal. Sep 07 21:50:08 dskippy: that's not the "linux" way.. Sep 07 21:50:28 Jott: I am well aware of that. But I can't rely on the user to make updates. Sep 07 21:50:34 dskippy: run a cronjob as root Sep 07 21:50:36 dskippy, familiarize yourself with package management. Sep 07 21:50:50 GeneralAntilles: so, not logical at all and just a pointless inconvinience for the user :) Sep 07 21:50:50 General: I am pretty familiar. Sep 07 21:51:01 Kegetys, as with most legal requirements. Sep 07 21:51:14 But there is clearly a reason for it that's out of Nokia's hands. :) Sep 07 21:51:23 dskippy: or maybe a cron.daily equivalent Sep 07 21:51:29 The issue is that these devices are going to be managed by a museum currator and given out to museum visitors. Sep 07 21:51:33 you'd need to do it via alarmd on maemo Sep 07 21:51:34 dskippy: just exit you app with a message box telling the user to upgrade :) Sep 07 21:51:50 Jott: I'm sure I can do better than that. Sep 07 21:51:51 dskippy: then update via cron.. Sep 07 21:51:53 are they powered up and down? Sep 07 21:51:56 or at startup.. Sep 07 21:52:10 I don't think cron will run if the device is off, will it? Sep 07 21:52:11 jott: are you looking over my shoulder? Sep 07 21:52:24 lbt: They are off every day during closing. Sep 07 21:52:34 GeneralAntilles: or they just dont bother with making such issues better because when you need that you have already paid for the device, which is what they care about ;) Sep 07 21:52:36 really off? Sep 07 21:52:41 anacron? Sep 07 21:52:43 lbt: Yes. Sep 07 21:52:53 then edit the startup script Sep 07 21:52:59 Kegetys, I'm quite certain they'd prefer not having to implement complicated webserver checks. :) Sep 07 21:53:05 Where's that? Sep 07 21:53:10 and apt-get install (after the wifi connects) Sep 07 21:53:35 But, particularly in the Opera days, they have licensing requirements to satisfy with 3rd-party companies. Sep 07 21:54:00 lbt: Oh crap, it's quite likely the devices will be out of wifi range until they are needed. Sep 07 21:54:03 look in /etc/rcX.d Sep 07 21:54:11 that's OK Sep 07 21:54:15 I don't know if I can rely on a signal until the application is about to run. Sep 07 21:54:36 pull the pkg in whilst on wifi Sep 07 21:54:39 GeneralAntilles: well, they could just add a whole load of legal text and a checkbox "I agree and swear I own the device", and say to any 3rd party that if thats not good enough then goodbye we'll find someone who's more reasonable Sep 07 21:54:40 --download Sep 07 21:54:50 and then install it the next morning Sep 07 21:54:55 Kegetys, yeah, right. Sep 07 21:55:09 Hey, ho, guess what, our internet tablet doesn't have a browser anymore! Sep 07 21:55:22 lbt: Yeah that's true. I could have a one-day delay. but that's pretty annoying if an update is critical. Sep 07 21:55:40 well, keep a wifi AP near the place they're turned on then Sep 07 21:55:46 d'oh Sep 07 21:56:05 lbt: :) Not possible Sep 07 21:56:15 GeneralAntilles: how do you know what opera would say? my point is just that they dont bother doing that because it is an issue that is not visible until you have already paid for the device and therefore propably is not a very high priority... same thing with nokia phones too on my experience Sep 07 21:56:18 well, you ain't updating without a network Sep 07 21:56:35 and if the device is in the users hands when it goes in range Sep 07 21:56:38 dskippy: then just check hourly for updates and download them... Sep 07 21:56:41 Are we sure it's not possible to allow "user" to install stuff? How does the application manager work? I never enter a password when using that. Sep 07 21:56:44 you can't nicely update then either Sep 07 21:56:54 dskippy: sudoers Sep 07 21:56:56 jott: That might be the best way. Sep 07 21:57:32 dskippy: then just put some nice stuff in the pre/postinst scripts to guide the user... Sep 07 21:57:42 I read sudoers a while ago. It actually contained a lot of programs that aren't there. Sep 07 21:57:55 (like "sorry for inconveniences, please press ok blabla") Sep 07 21:57:59 user ALL = (install) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/app-installer-tool Sep 07 21:58:10 app-installer-tool Sep 07 21:58:13 Doesn't exist. Sep 07 21:58:37 and cron is run as root anyway.. Sep 07 21:58:44 dskippy, but what's the problem with that? :) Sep 07 21:59:47 dskippy: ok so my proposal: run a system upgrade via cron every hour. Sep 07 22:00:09 but don't use external repositories, just your own so you have control over what will be updated. Sep 07 22:00:15 yacoob: Nothing accept I don't understand it. Sep 07 22:01:01 and run the upgrade with nice, so it won't interrupt the user that much. Sep 07 22:01:15 Jott: I think I agree. That's the current winner. But if it's possible to allow the user to install stuff using sudoers I'd prefer that. Sep 07 22:01:45 I thought you said the users were museum custodians? Sep 07 22:01:47 dskippy: that should work too .. but why not use existing infrastructure? :) Sep 07 22:02:03 lbt, oh, they can handle new technology as well... :) Sep 07 22:02:06 (well cron has to be installed, but still) Sep 07 22:02:15 it's prooven to work Sep 07 22:02:17 jott: 1) sudoers is also existing infrastructure. Sep 07 22:02:31 What, exactly, do they need to install? Sep 07 22:02:35 yeah, but frankly I make my software easy for *me* to use - and I can handle it! Sep 07 22:02:40 cant you jsut hook into the existing ssu type thing and get automatic updates? Sep 07 22:02:41 GeneralAntilles: his own deployed packages. Sep 07 22:02:44 I just don't want to most of the time Sep 07 22:02:47 jott: 2) There is an annoying situation with the cron. It's a race condition. Sep 07 22:03:36 lcuk: that needs too much user interaction. i would remove the application manager completely from the device.. Sep 07 22:03:37 Jott: Turn on device, run the program, expect the new update, then after the app starts the cron updates it, the user doesn't see this until the exit and restart which might be tomorrow. Sep 07 22:04:11 jott: There is no race condition if the update is part of the app running and forces a check and possibly install when the user turns on the device and runs the app. Sep 07 22:04:17 but if you say your updates are criticial and can't wait a day? .. Sep 07 22:04:38 Jott: I can't parse that sentence. Sep 07 22:05:21 you said it would be bad to run cron the next morning as your updates might contain critical fixes that need to be deployed more or less immediately... Sep 07 22:05:34 * lbt smells a dead horse Sep 07 22:05:36 if the deps arent gonna change just write a small bin_start program which does update checking and which might be replaced by the main software Sep 07 22:05:47 we do it in windows quite a lot Sep 07 22:05:47 Jott: Yes, that's right. Sep 07 22:05:59 And the fastest they can get there to do a check every time the user runs the program. Sep 07 22:06:11 ah so the program is started often? Sep 07 22:06:23 i thought about starting it in the morning and exit it in the evening.. Sep 07 22:06:44 if its business software it might not be shutdown routinely Sep 07 22:06:49 Jott: It usually is run all day, yes. Sep 07 22:06:53 do YOU turn off your calculator? Sep 07 22:07:10 big pc is one thing.. Sep 07 22:07:43 Jott: But if we need them to fix it I'd rather tell them "Exit and restart" rather than "Exist, wait 5 minutes, restart, if you see the fix, you're good, if not, you didn't wait long enough. Do it again and wait longer this time." Sep 07 22:09:14 huh?! Sep 07 22:09:45 anyway, either way should work. via sudoers within your application or with a cron job with sanity checks Sep 07 22:10:09 Jott: Using the cron solution provides a race condition that I'd like to avoid. Museum currators are not tech saavy and might mess things up in a way that's hard for me to debug over the phone. Sep 07 22:10:58 there are no race conditions if you do it right.. .. Sep 07 22:11:06 anyway. Sep 07 22:11:10 do as you please.. Sep 07 22:11:11 Jott: Your way is fine, sure. I might use your solution if I can't make this sudoers thing work. But it's not as good for my situation as some other solutions I want to explore. Sep 07 22:11:43 Jott: If I want them to do an update in the middle of the day there is. Especially if some devices are still off. Sep 07 22:12:36 dskippy, if they have network connectivity you can use vnc to support them just like a regular pooter Sep 07 22:12:45 or ssh even Sep 07 22:13:19 dskippy: huh? if you do it right, then there should be no race conditions.... Sep 07 22:13:22 lcuk: The issue is with the N800's. They aren't using any other computer. Sep 07 22:13:32 read what i put again Sep 07 22:13:35 anyway. just use sudoers if you feel better with it.. Sep 07 22:13:53 lcuk: You want to install ssh or vnc on the nokia's you mean? Sep 07 22:13:58 I have ssh on the nokias. Sep 07 22:14:33 then technically it does not matter how far away you are, whichever method you use you have options Sep 07 22:14:41 I can't ssh into a nokia that is turned off though. Sep 07 22:15:03 lcuk: still better to have a system that does not need ssh support at all :) even though it is good to have the option :) Sep 07 22:15:13 if its turned off they have bigger updating problems Sep 07 22:15:26 I have the option. In fact that's how I currently do it. Sep 07 22:15:53 It's annoying to ssh into 30 nokias. I wrote a script to do it for me. But the script fails on the ones that are sleeping or turned off. Sep 07 22:16:22 I get no guarentee that they will be updated. Hence wanting cron or just a trigger on running my app. Sep 07 22:17:01 Just a quick note: "user ALL = (install) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/dpkg" didn't work. I added that to /etc/sudoers. Sep 07 22:17:24 then on startup check for update, download the package and ssh 127.0.0.1 "dpkg etc" Sep 07 22:17:52 if thats already preconfigured you dont need to mess with sudoers or anything do you? Sep 07 22:18:08 dskippy: did you use "sudo dpkg"? :) Sep 07 22:18:33 Doing dpkg in startup doesn't allow for a mid-day patch Sep 07 22:18:39 Oh jott: No I'm dumb. Sep 07 22:18:42 Let me try that again. Sep 07 22:19:22 if its updated whilst running without giving your software warnings couldnt that cause other issues? Sep 07 22:19:35 Yeah that worked. Sep 07 22:20:32 Alright I think I've got all the info I need. Thanks for the help guys. Sep 07 22:21:00 dskippy: have you infos about your project? Sep 07 22:21:03 sounds interesting. Sep 07 22:21:14 jott: Yeah... Sep 07 22:21:16 One sec Sep 07 22:22:24 http://aldrichart.org/exhibitions/burgund.php Sep 07 22:22:32 the museum's exhbit page Sep 07 22:22:53 roundware.sf.net Sep 07 22:22:56 Project page Sep 07 22:23:19 New York Times write up: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/08artswe.html?ex=1370577600&en=51d78e69a7cb21f0&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink Sep 07 22:23:44 Anyway, I have to run. Thanks again for the help guys. I'm sure one or both of these solutions will do just fine. Sep 07 22:51:20 psst... someone know how to say "bitch" in german? the offensive context :P Sep 07 22:51:57 also, anyone know about using US credit cards / bank cards in Deutschland? Sep 07 22:59:20 credit cards will work Sep 07 22:59:25 bank cards - most likely not Sep 07 22:59:36 gimme the numbers and names and stuff and ill test em for you Sep 07 23:00:08 ;P Sep 07 23:03:03 rm_you: "hure" or "schlampe" (where "hure" is more of a prostitute and "schlampe" one who does it with everybody) Sep 07 23:03:38 rm_you: visa is probably the best choice for cc here. Sep 07 23:03:38 ummm jott, just so we are sure, how would we ummm pronounce those? Sep 07 23:04:28 and jott, what do you say as a cuss word when you stub your toe Sep 07 23:04:47 just a general expletive which doesnt point at anyone in particular Sep 07 23:05:02 erm. i guess something like "hoore" and "shlahmpeh" :) Sep 07 23:05:20 better lookup exact phoenetics :) Sep 07 23:05:24 rm_you, call your bank, and ask with which bank in germany they have an agreement for free withdrawals Sep 07 23:05:50 did you actually sit there goin "hooor" "hoOOOoor" of fuckit *clickity( Sep 07 23:06:16 hehe Sep 07 23:06:25 hure is actually like hoorah but with a silent a Sep 07 23:06:37 mental note, black keyboard with monitor light at the wrong angle really makes my day Sep 07 23:06:44 but then again, it depends how you pronounce "hoorah" Sep 07 23:06:56 Sep 07 23:07:20 Sep 07 23:07:49 Sep 07 23:08:00 Mmm . . . that was a good stak. Sep 07 23:08:02 ffs @ typing Sep 07 23:08:04 s/stak/steak/ Sep 07 23:08:04 GeneralAntilles meant: Mmm . . . that was a good steak. Sep 07 23:08:10 ERROR: EXPECTING CLOSING TAG AT LINE 1 Sep 07 23:08:41 a linuxtag :D Sep 07 23:08:58 what other reunions are there this year? Sep 07 23:09:05 well, "cons" Sep 07 23:09:33 junkets :) Sep 07 23:09:38 I missed out on TLHOPE, I'm going to miss OSiM and the Maemo Summit Sep 07 23:09:50 Ha! Sep 07 23:09:52 c'mon, bring it on, this year's the year I'm missing them all Sep 07 23:09:54 It's just as well I'm not able to make it. :P Sep 07 23:09:58 hackers festivals Sep 07 23:11:30 [22:07] (ChrisAM) I can't get selinux to turn on. Sep 07 23:11:30 [22:10] (cs_weasel) caress it gently Sep 07 23:13:35 * GeneralAntilles really wishes he had a decent camera up here. Sep 08 01:07:48 This looks like an endorsement for OMAP3 in the next tablet if _I've_ ever seen one: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221381&postcount=4 Sep 08 01:44:43 hello! how can a root password be recovered? or is it possible? Sep 08 01:44:55 ~root-access Sep 08 01:44:59 sudo gainroot Sep 08 01:45:19 If you've got gainroot, easyroot or rootsh installed Sep 08 01:45:34 I'll give that a try - I can't believe I forgot my root password Sep 08 01:45:40 Then passwd once you have a root shell. Sep 08 01:47:22 none of those are in the mint repos Sep 08 01:47:32 Er Sep 08 01:47:41 I was assuming Maemo Sep 08 01:47:45 Since, well, #maemo. :P Sep 08 01:48:21 I finally got my files downloaded, took forever, and had to recharge my 770, then forgot my root password! ARG!!! Sep 08 01:48:31 Typically desktop Linux is a lot more secure than Maemo Sep 08 01:48:35 Google may prove useful. Sep 08 01:48:47 I have PPC running Ubuntu so am trying that Sep 08 01:50:32 I'm hoping the problem I had with flasher was because of not having root access Sep 08 01:50:48 Well, did it say permission denied? Sep 08 01:51:21 root access denied Sep 08 01:51:50 okay am downloading on the other machine - I have the flasher-3.0 and the hacker.bin. Do I need anything else? Sep 08 01:54:01 Try it without sudo Sep 08 01:54:06 You may be able to use the USB interface without root. Sep 08 01:54:20 okay Sep 08 01:58:33 I get flasher-2.0 command not found Sep 08 01:59:15 Er, well, did you install it? :P Sep 08 01:59:23 * ToyKeeper wonders if zsh is in any maemo repos Sep 08 01:59:37 I downloaded it to desktop Sep 08 01:59:48 Did you run it from the desktop? Sep 08 02:00:04 ahhh ....I don't know Sep 08 02:00:13 just double click? Sep 08 02:00:21 Well, the desktop isn't in any of your search paths. :P Sep 08 02:00:29 ~/desktop/flasher-2.0 or similar Sep 08 02:00:37 You may be able to drag and drop it onto the terminal window. Sep 08 02:01:08 oh. Does the hackerimage need to go there too? Sep 08 02:02:55 sudo -F -f -R Sep 08 02:03:30 okay Sep 08 02:10:43 no luck Sep 08 02:10:48 I give up Sep 08 02:11:02 What's the error? Sep 08 02:11:05 Still root? Sep 08 02:11:38 still says it cannot find flasher-2.0 after I moved it to ~/ Sep 08 02:12:06 ~/ is not a search path Sep 08 02:12:10 You have to tell it where it is Sep 08 02:12:16 it's not magic, it can't just find it for you. Sep 08 02:12:21 Give it the absolute path. Sep 08 02:12:52 okay I'll try Sep 08 02:17:17 http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/funny-pictures-your-cat-is-using-the-pooper-scooper-wrong.jpg Sep 08 02:19:33 nope - I don't what I'm doing wrong or if its just the root thing. Time to give it a rest. Thanks for your help! Sep 08 02:25:18 hi all Sep 08 02:26:11 Jaffa, is there any way to get mud-builder to pulldown and make debs of everything needed by a debian source package? I want to port something that has like 900000x dependencies :/ Sep 08 02:50:54 qgil broke planet **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 08 02:59:57 2008