**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 12 02:59:57 2008 Sep 12 03:02:48 safari + "dell.com" = FAIL Sep 12 03:34:03 woah.. "The developer session on Thursday 18 will have more than what is explained in the program, based on what Ari Jaaksi will present on Wed 17. Erkko Antila (Fremantle product manager), Quim Gil (OSS marketing manager) and Niels Breet (maemo.org webmaster) will share the schedule to discuss software offering, development platform and Maemo community. " Sep 12 03:36:18 omgwtfbbq? Sep 12 03:36:43 it's on the maemo wiki of all places.. I was checking the wifi situation and my eyes crossed that Sep 12 03:37:19 https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2008/Organization#OSiM Sep 12 03:37:49 Peter mentioned that the Maemo booth might need some backup after Ari's talk on baloo's blog. Sep 12 03:39:47 lol Sep 12 03:39:55 are they going to announce some CRAZY SHIT?! :P Sep 12 03:40:17 Short of Nokia saying it Fremantle software and hardware will be shown if not fondled. Also indicates the new SDK *might* be realy Sep 12 03:40:23 Maemo 2009 will be based on Windows Vista? Sep 12 03:42:03 seriously though. Sep 12 03:42:05 Crazy would be 200 dev units :-P Sep 12 03:42:24 briand: by new SDK, would it probably be just an updated version of the current thing Sep 12 03:42:33 or something a new thing? Sep 12 03:42:40 i.e. evolutionary or revolutionary? Sep 12 03:43:04 Oh... just reinstalled and there is a LOT of crap in extras that I don't think should be in the listings... one even said it was for scratchbox Sep 12 03:43:07 Maemo 5 Sep 12 03:43:36 evolutionary, expect more polish on existing upstream and critical system items Sep 12 03:44:51 and new hardware... but the hardware will probably not drift too far from the n8x0 form factor and beagle board reference platform Sep 12 03:47:43 is there a good twitter app for the n810? Sep 12 03:48:23 the hardware seems to be fine Sep 12 03:48:32 it's the software part that is disappointing Sep 12 03:48:34 mitter? ( I don't use twitter ) Sep 12 03:48:59 vegai: I'm not expecting anything revolutionary. Sep 12 03:49:13 I just signed up for an account Sep 12 03:49:25 we are still talking gtk/qt/linux not apple/iphone Sep 12 03:50:11 vegai, the hardware is _not_ fine. Sep 12 03:50:18 LCD controller is all messed up Sep 12 03:50:47 yeah, even a slight change to the hardware will make it MUCH more media friendly Sep 12 03:51:14 800x480 screen, but no bandwidth to get the buffers to the LCD fast enough Sep 12 03:51:40 3d hardware for, if nothing else, Xserver compsiting Sep 12 03:52:18 current hardware spends far too much time drawing every pixel and moving them to the LCD Sep 12 04:22:55 brontide: afaik it was the last minute decision by nokia Sep 12 04:34:20 so uh, how do I uninstall apps on a nokia tablet Sep 12 04:38:15 * Alystair asks really really dumb questions sometimes Sep 12 04:38:20 that wasn't worth answering Sep 12 05:13:16 GeneralAntilles: ok, but the software problems are far worse Sep 12 05:13:35 doesn't it already have 3d hardware? Just the driver missing Sep 12 05:13:40 Yeah Sep 12 05:13:47 But it's not really up for compositing Sep 12 05:13:54 ok Sep 12 05:14:04 Besides, newer hardware solves a lot of the software issues Sep 12 05:14:19 Faster CPU == better application start times, more fluid interface, etc. Sep 12 05:15:02 The new LCD interface means much better redraw times. Sep 12 05:16:08 you need quite many layers on top of 3d hardware to be able to use it in your (x) application Sep 12 05:16:25 kernel driver, open gl es stack, egl (or something) for X Sep 12 06:03:32 Hi ! Sep 12 06:03:54 mornin' Sep 12 06:04:41 morning Stskeeps Sep 12 06:05:30 * Khertan_n810 see that the first example of python magazine is free Sep 12 06:05:52 and they explain how to make a custom cairo widget Sep 12 06:06:27 could be a good things to draw my own view for mCalendar Sep 12 06:06:48 kulve: I just installed ogg-support 0.8 in my freshly-flashed n800, and all oggs are appearing under '(unknown artist)' Sep 12 06:07:25 héhé it s ogg ... open source ... Sep 12 06:08:00 so there isn t really artist Sep 12 06:08:11 :) Sep 12 06:09:11 * Khertan_n810 see the diff of perf of the autobuilder, it s clear that x-fade is no more in vacancies Sep 12 06:13:29 oh, nevermind, I found the bug Sep 12 06:13:58 ? Sep 12 06:14:31 http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2836 Sep 12 06:22:16 gregorovius: yeah, tags are buggy and I don't know (yet) why Sep 12 06:22:42 gregorovius: I get something like 5% of the tags, so they *are* working, it's just buggy.. Sep 12 06:23:18 gregorovius: it might be that the bug is in ogg/gst libs I provide and not in the Nokia components.. Sep 12 06:25:56 hope it gets sorted out somehow Sep 12 06:27:23 no one have make a google public calendar with the summikt program ? Sep 12 06:32:43 what's the default password on the 770? Sep 12 06:33:03 for the device lock Sep 12 06:33:15 http://feeds.engadget.com/~r/weblogsinc/engadget/~3/390199143/ Sep 12 06:33:20 i like the pad Sep 12 06:34:33 hrm 12345 Sep 12 06:34:35 Khertan: Windows CE Sep 12 06:34:38 fuck it. Sep 12 06:34:47 64MB of RAM... Sep 12 06:34:55 (and a 480x272 screen too) Sep 12 06:35:10 yep just talking of the pad Sep 12 06:35:21 the rest sucks Sep 12 06:35:37 the pad looks nice indeed Sep 12 06:35:41 christ I promised myself I'd only get the 770 to develop stuff and now the 810 looks really tempting :| Sep 12 06:35:52 as a purely personal device Sep 12 06:36:20 only the pad is interersting in this thing Sep 12 06:43:32 http://feeds.engadget.com/~r/weblogsinc/engadget/~3/389799035/ Sep 12 06:43:41 a creative internet tablet ? Sep 12 06:47:55 http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html Sep 12 06:48:02 Here. Pray. Sep 12 06:49:12 Khertan_n810: Looks like a tabletkiosk Sep 12 06:49:46 Dekaritae: yep or an larger 770 :) Sep 12 06:49:56 Alystair: what kind of stuff you want to develop on 770? Sep 12 06:51:37 Actually, it looks more like a Samsung Q1B Sep 12 06:51:52 RST38h: the first collision is planned for december Sep 12 06:52:23 is there a digital clock for the statusbar that only takes up 1 slot? Sep 12 06:52:31 It's in Extras Sep 12 06:52:35 Status Bar Clock Sep 12 06:53:25 Khertan: it warped time. Sep 12 06:53:25 i ve just uploaded cairo clock to extras devel : an home desktop clock applet Sep 12 06:53:41 I installed that and it was an analog clock, unless i missed a setting somewhere Sep 12 06:53:43 Yay, a new clock :-) Sep 12 06:53:53 status bar is full :( Sep 12 06:53:55 are there any advantages to using hacker OS versions on the 770? Sep 12 06:54:00 And what do you mean "by december"? Do they intend to end the world on a neat calendar date like Dec 31? =) Sep 12 06:54:03 gregorious : yep analog Sep 12 06:54:19 the time-zone settings on the 770 really really piss me off Sep 12 06:54:25 why are they listed by city and not country Sep 12 06:54:26 i'm looking for a digital clock, I can't read a analog clock that small Sep 12 06:54:49 RST3e8h: in mid december they will made the first collision Sep 12 06:54:59 gregorovius, switch the mode in the Clock application. Sep 12 06:55:01 Christmas then! Sep 12 06:55:18 ShadowJK, do you have advanced backlight installed? Sep 12 06:55:37 nope? Sep 12 06:55:44 or maybe even Hanukkah? =) Sep 12 06:55:45 GeneralAntilles: thanks, that was counterintuitive Sep 12 06:55:51 advanced backlight? Is that similar to ACmonitor? Sep 12 06:56:01 Alystair, no. Sep 12 06:56:12 http://adv-backlight.garage.maemo.org Sep 12 06:56:38 * Khertan_n810 never change backlight settting Sep 12 06:56:45 always to full :) Sep 12 06:56:59 the sensor is good to manage it :) Sep 12 06:57:14 ah stuff I can't use lol Sep 12 06:59:50 Khertan_n810, kills battery life. Sep 12 07:03:17 GeneralAntilles: long enough for me Sep 12 07:04:12 i use mainly bt Sep 12 07:04:24 less drain battery than wifi Sep 12 07:04:34 Only by a little. Sep 12 07:04:42 am I right, current mplayer plays bad video with faad codec? Sep 12 07:04:45 yep only a little Sep 12 07:05:06 meanwhile, a built-in media playes do it good Sep 12 07:05:23 faad codec Sep 12 07:05:32 ? Sep 12 07:05:47 hm. sec... Sep 12 07:06:31 [faad] AAC (MPEG2/3 Sep 12 07:06:38 this is a part of output Sep 12 07:06:53 funny to see that when i add percent of all process i can see in a top is around 600% Sep 12 07:07:18 mpeg2 play fine in mplayer Sep 12 07:07:35 moreover, [faad] afm: faad (FAAD AAC Sep 12 07:07:58 aac is for audio Sep 12 07:08:28 ah, sure, I'm talking about audio, sorry not say it. Sep 12 07:09:49 * Khertan_n810 connection will drop entering in subway Sep 12 07:14:46 Morning, all Sep 12 07:15:05 Morning. Sep 12 07:16:49 About the council blog. I think we can create http://maemo.org/community/council/ and give the council members rights to post messages there. Sep 12 07:17:02 We can use that rss in the news section too. Sep 12 07:17:15 X-Fade sounds good Sep 12 07:17:26 And see if we can point an url to that a bit later. Sep 12 07:17:53 Need to think about that, but I guess it could be done Sep 12 07:18:07 but don't take that as a promise Sep 12 07:18:12 X-Fade: cool, sounds like what we need Sep 12 07:18:25 tekojo: yeah, I'm worried about adding ssl etc for yet another domain.. Sep 12 07:18:55 Not real important Sep 12 07:19:08 X-Fade: may not need a domain - SSL fun, of course - or just an HTTP redirect to the full URL (a la p.m.o) Sep 12 07:19:15 Nice addon, but don't stress things if it's an issue. Sep 12 07:19:27 Jaffa: Yes, but we have https problems on that url ;) Sep 12 07:19:46 might be doable as said, but needs a check Sep 12 07:21:59 You know, I've said it once and I'll say it again, but I wish Maemo Software would take a cue from you guys. :) Sep 12 07:23:26 GAN800: what do you mean? Sep 12 07:24:04 Well, the maemo.org team is involved, responsive, easy to get to, and easy to work with. Sep 12 07:24:29 They deal with their bugs, they get things done and it's not fighting on uphill battle on every single little issue. Sep 12 07:25:16 ah, that general problem Sep 12 07:25:54 ;) Sep 12 07:25:58 GeneralAntilles: Do you think it is a good idea to create a council garage project? Sep 12 07:26:18 GeneralAntilles: So I can use that as group and you add all members there? Sep 12 07:26:29 Hrm Sep 12 07:26:36 I don't see why not. Sep 12 07:26:49 I need some time to see what could be done to get some more connections Sep 12 07:28:32 Oh btw, there will also be people from Nokia Legal at the summit. So prepare your questions ;) Sep 12 07:28:55 Hopefully we can get the ball rolling on wrapping up the branding stuff. Sep 12 07:29:18 Terms of use, trademark usage, and maemo.org legal disclaimers all need some examination Sep 12 07:29:29 Somebody needs to take a look at the patch licensing, too. Sep 12 07:30:24 GeneralAntilles: Can you create the project on garage? Sep 12 07:32:15 Can I fill in the descriptions later? Sep 12 07:32:26 Yes, I will approve it ;) Sep 12 07:32:45 web form says "No" Sep 12 07:32:54 heh ;) Sep 12 07:33:05 'placeholder' ;) Sep 12 07:33:07 Sent Sep 12 07:33:42 Approved ;) Sep 12 07:35:43 I guess the council should probably start doing sprint progress reporting. Sep 12 07:36:17 Sure, I think that is a good idea. Sep 12 07:36:27 It works pretty well for us. Sep 12 07:38:39 I guess the thing I'm hesitant about is overloading the sprint reviews with too much stuff. Sep 12 07:39:00 Well, you could create your own. Sep 12 07:39:06 But how to combine :) Sep 12 07:39:07 Yeah, that's what I'm thinking Sep 12 07:39:33 Maybe keep the wiki-side organization mostly together Sep 12 07:39:55 does anyone know where i can find Xournal for my 770? Sep 12 07:39:58 http://www.bgran.net/etrunko/apt is down Sep 12 07:40:02 :( Sep 12 07:40:28 GeneralAntilles: Or make the activity log 2 columns? Sep 12 07:40:38 (running 2007HE, so i need the patch, which i can find, but it needs the original!) Sep 12 07:40:58 X-Fade, that'll involve tables Sep 12 07:41:12 Brr wiki tables. Sep 12 07:41:20 which means pain and suffering for people submitting progress reports Sep 12 07:41:24 I'm talking about the IRC reviews, btw. Sep 12 07:42:20 Well, you can do that in the same channel. Before or after ours? And be present to comment on 'our' sprint? Sep 12 07:42:43 A lot of the council issues will probably fall under "website" anyway Sep 12 07:42:57 so those can be handled in the normal maemo.org IRC sprint reviews Sep 12 07:43:07 The problematic stuff would be the Maemo Software related issues. Sep 12 07:43:13 Yeah, and the group isn't that large. So I don't think it will be bloating the meeting too much. Sep 12 07:43:23 Which should be separate, as it involves different people. Sep 12 07:43:30 Well, organise meetings with those guys too ;) Sep 12 07:43:55 Those may have to be played by ear a bit. Sep 12 07:44:19 It's a lot of work having to build an organizational framework from the ground up. . . . Sep 12 07:45:05 someone has libglib ? Sep 12 07:51:39 thank u for ur fast help Sep 12 07:56:12 noone knows where i can get xournal then? Sep 12 08:02:05 yes Sep 12 08:02:13 http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/ Sep 12 08:05:43 ah, but for os2007? Sep 12 08:05:53 * aladds only has a 770 Sep 12 08:06:09 sorry, i did say that when i first asked, but you might not have been here Sep 12 08:06:44 i found the patch for the os2006 version to work on os2007 Sep 12 08:06:53 but i can't find the os2006 version Sep 12 08:06:55 http://www.bgran.net/etrunko/apt is down Sep 12 08:08:23 wait Sep 12 08:09:37 hm? Sep 12 08:10:14 aladds: there exists 2008HE though? Sep 12 08:10:25 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/os2007_tested_applications/ Sep 12 08:10:40 read it and do it :) Sep 12 08:10:51 Italodance: the apt it refers to is down.. Sep 12 08:10:58 2008HE doesn't work amazingly though, there're problems with the sound being really quiet Sep 12 08:11:00 also http://henryykt.googlepages.com/xournalforn800 Sep 12 08:11:07 yeah Sep 12 08:11:21 but, as Stskeeps says, the apt, http://www.bgran.net/etrunko/apt is down Sep 12 08:11:37 Morning, all Sep 12 08:12:02 hi Jaffa Sep 12 08:13:40 aladds: http://www.maemo.org.br/platform/apt/pool/user/x/xournal/ maybe Sep 12 08:13:40 GeneralAntilles, Jaffa: https://maemo.org/community/council/ in the floating bar 'Folder' -> create article. Sep 12 08:14:11 i want armel, right? Sep 12 08:14:25 yes Sep 12 08:14:40 aladds: how hackerish are you btw? Sep 12 08:14:47 hackerish enough Sep 12 08:14:50 :P Sep 12 08:15:14 aladds: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23547 if you get bored.. we're trying to make an updated environment for 770 Sep 12 08:15:17 Abstract? Sep 12 08:15:31 how can i edit and remove application catalogue with x-term? Sep 12 08:15:39 X-Fade: cool Sep 12 08:15:46 GeneralAntilles: Short version, but it isn't used.. Sep 12 08:15:47 ^ Sep 12 08:15:51 Ah, OK. Sep 12 08:15:57 Yeah, this looks perfect, anyway. Sep 12 08:15:58 Thanks! Sep 12 08:16:20 http://maemo.org/community/council/rss.xml is also in the planet now. Sep 12 08:16:31 So it will also show up in the news section. Sep 12 08:17:01 X-Fade: cool stuff, thanks Sep 12 08:17:29 Time for somebody to put together an announcement, then. ;) Sep 12 08:18:42 Well volunteered ;-) Sep 12 08:19:11 right, which repository will i find libgnomecanvas, libgnomeprint(&ui) & poppler-utils? Sep 12 08:19:20 in which even Sep 12 08:20:20 Jaffa, isn't Tim the marketing guy? :D Sep 12 08:21:10 nevermind, found it Sep 12 08:22:22 GeneralAntilles: his presentation sample's better than mine. Although I found http://www.sxc.hu/browse.phtml?f=download&id=1042480 and quite liked it as a "community" theme Sep 12 08:22:43 Gotta log in Sep 12 08:22:53 hang on Sep 12 08:23:03 http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1042480 Sep 12 08:23:40 Not bad Sep 12 08:23:48 Perhaps a little too stylized for my tastes Sep 12 08:23:59 We need one with 5 figures. . . . Sep 12 08:24:04 His is 6, yours is 4. Sep 12 08:24:05 sxc.hu rocks - takes a while to find one you like,though Sep 12 08:24:09 GeneralAntilles: indeed Sep 12 08:24:39 ah, now i've found them for mistral, but are there bora versions? Sep 12 08:25:59 Jaffa: GeneralAntilles maybe you could make it a bit more personal by putting pictures of you up there. Sep 12 08:26:41 Pass Sep 12 08:26:50 hehe Sep 12 08:26:56 I've got zero decent pictures of myself. Sep 12 08:27:15 Ditto Sep 12 08:27:31 and not even a decent camera at hand to try to get one Sep 12 08:27:38 we photoshop you in a group picture at the summit ;) Sep 12 08:27:38 jott: and I'm hoping if we can get a could community template for the council, I can use it for my own presentation without having to do much thinking ;-) Sep 12 08:28:17 or better gimp you in there.. haha Sep 12 08:28:35 heh Sep 12 08:28:47 http://bleb.org/software/maemo/pres-example.png isn't great though. Simplicity will probably work best (when in doubt, copy the style your company's designer came up with ;-)) Sep 12 08:29:28 lol Sep 12 08:30:39 www.internettablet.org.cn Sep 12 08:30:40 h Sep 12 08:32:32 that's actually a fairly good overview for a relatively small page Sep 12 08:33:48 ummm what's it plutoorbiter-os2008? Sep 12 08:38:30 for future reference, http://maemo.org.br/platform/apt seems to be a mirror of the dead repo Sep 12 08:38:45 yeah, that was what i found :P Sep 12 08:38:57 someone should wiki it Sep 12 08:40:03 hmm. is 770 charger same as one for n800? Sep 12 08:40:21 think so, all nokias have used the little charger for a while now Sep 12 08:40:48 aladds: subject to change w/o notice Sep 12 08:41:09 Stskeeps: the 770,n800,n810,n810-wimax all use the mini charger jack Sep 12 08:41:28 sounds good Sep 12 08:41:49 note that some newer nokia phones use microb usb for charging Sep 12 08:42:18 that's a good point actually Sep 12 08:42:39 the 6500 slide uses the mini jack, but the 6500 classic uses mini usb Sep 12 08:42:41 ;S Sep 12 08:42:43 *:S Sep 12 08:43:27 * timelyx passes around a bottle of "confusion" straight from Nokia Sep 12 08:43:32 :P Sep 12 08:43:52 argg Sep 12 08:44:00 * aladds does the "N800" update Sep 12 08:44:19 yay! :D Sep 12 08:44:41 * aladds now needs to make his handwriting smaller :P Sep 12 08:44:53 and keep it legible... Sep 12 08:44:57 when I'm working with the gps obviously I don't touch the screen regularly so the lcd light turns off, does the advanced backlight app has a feature to keep the light on constantly for a defined duration? Sep 12 08:45:15 liri, no, but Maemo Mapper does. Sep 12 08:45:27 yeah, your gps app should do that for you Sep 12 08:45:43 mm, I'm using roadmap and it doesn't do that and I don't use maemo mapper so... Sep 12 08:45:53 Time to patch Roadmap Sep 12 08:46:00 heh Sep 12 08:46:11 or fire-up maemo mapper in the background? :) Sep 12 08:46:11 http://www.leicestershirevillages.com/uploads/843ff5494264c0626403963.gif :) Sep 12 08:46:16 You could probably just lift Maemo Mapper's method whole hog. Sep 12 08:46:21 liri: that'd be a bug Sep 12 08:46:33 a backgrounded app should *not* keep the backlight on Sep 12 08:46:55 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/shownotes.php?release_id=1790 Sep 12 08:47:05 RoadMap can now suspend display-blanking to keep the backlight on while navigating. Sep 12 08:48:14 I'm using a different branch of roadmap called roadmap_editor Sep 12 08:48:37 forking is bad Sep 12 08:48:39 don't fork Sep 12 08:48:55 heh, you telling me? tell it to that author who forked it Sep 12 08:48:59 I hate the fork too Sep 12 08:49:05 fork you! Sep 12 08:50:48 well...backport the patch then. Sep 12 08:56:56 erm Sep 12 08:57:04 how does the 770 manage memory? Sep 12 08:57:07 it's confusing me Sep 12 08:57:12 as in Sep 12 08:57:19 i'd like to install gnumetic Sep 12 08:57:23 gnumeric Sep 12 08:57:24 but Sep 12 08:57:52 i thought i should free some space, as i remember seeing it say 75% full Sep 12 08:58:04 and 8MB or so free Sep 12 08:58:08 and gnumeric is 9 Sep 12 08:58:16 so i moved everything to my 2GB card Sep 12 08:58:26 now it's saying 0% used Sep 12 08:58:38 so, how much space do i have left for applications? Sep 12 08:58:45 how do i find out? Sep 12 08:58:48 df? Sep 12 08:58:49 :P Sep 12 08:59:30 yeah Sep 12 08:59:30 :P Sep 12 08:59:36 of the / Sep 12 08:59:46 crazy :S Sep 12 09:00:13 GeneralAntilles: sigh Sep 12 09:00:17 *forking without a license* Sep 12 09:03:32 'morning, dneary. Sep 12 09:03:45 Morning! Sep 12 09:03:59 Good morning! I have just realised that having Spanish maps in my N810 might be really handy as I am flying there early tomorrow. Does anyone have a good link for adding maps? The only connectivity I will have is wifi at hotel, so I want to have the maps cached. Sep 12 09:04:16 Listening to a hugely interesting presentation: http://www.slideshare.net/david_a_eaves/community-management-presentation?src=related_normal&rel=155665 Sep 12 09:04:20 For "Map" or Maemo Mapper? Sep 12 09:04:45 I like MM better... Sep 12 09:05:12 OK, switch to your favorite map repository (say, Google Street), shuffle the view on over to Spain Sep 12 09:05:28 Frame the area of Spain you want to download in the windows Sep 12 09:06:07 Go to the menu -> Maps -> Manage Maps... and download the zoom levels you want for that area. Sep 12 09:08:03 Looks interesting, dneary. *listening* Sep 12 09:16:13 morning Sep 12 09:16:20 hrw: did you ever try emulating 770 btw? Sep 12 09:16:31 Stskeeps: there is no emulation of 770 Sep 12 09:16:34 k Sep 12 09:16:46 Stskeeps: 770 is obsolete toy not usable device Sep 12 09:17:37 hehe. i'm of the old school that says old machines are still quite useful Sep 12 09:18:07 good morning Sep 12 09:18:18 Jaffa Jr. is using a fairly old ThinkPad with Ubuntu and some of the Netbook Remix packages to make it more simple for a 2.5 year old. Sep 12 09:18:29 Stskeeps: I use older devices then 770 Sep 12 09:18:35 finally someone can help me Sep 12 09:18:39 ? Sep 12 09:18:56 Jaffa: older then p3? Sep 12 09:19:19 hrw: I *think* it's a celery Sep 12 09:20:03 Ah, no Google says a type 2656 is an R30, P3 1GHz. Sep 12 09:20:03 hi florian Sep 12 09:20:17 Still damned fast compared with my old BBC B, A3010 or RiscPC. Sep 12 09:21:56 Jaffa: 1GHz p3 is fast machine very usable Sep 12 09:22:22 770 was developer device which should not be targetted at users Sep 12 09:22:51 hrw: Indeed. Problem is it's been dropped a few times and the LCD has loads of broken rows, often in clumps of about 30 or so; with on a 768 high screen is fun. Sep 12 09:23:03 hrw: uh? Sep 12 09:24:15 Jaffa: lcd monitors are cheap now - buy one and connect as external screen? Sep 12 09:25:05 florian: thats my opinion (which was shared by some developers which used 770 since it was proto) Sep 12 09:25:08 Jaffa: But some Netbook packages and an old Thinkpad are a good idea. My son is ~2.5 years too... and I have an old Thinkpad without a proper job ;) Sep 12 09:25:28 hrw: I've got a spare I'm using as a dual monitor setup on my desktop. We're doing a room shuffle in a few months in preparation for Jaffa Jr. 2, so'll be using one of them then Sep 12 09:25:41 hrw: I'm using my 770 for years without trouble... Sep 12 09:26:17 florian: the ume-launcher which is clutter based is too slow, but using maximus to full-screen everything, the theme and the window switcher, set firefox to launch on startup and speed dial extension to show big friendly buttons of his favourite websites (e.g. bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/) Sep 12 09:26:49 We were going to get him a trackball, but he's getting the hang of a mouse now (was dragging stuff yesterday to do a Flash jigsaw on the cbeebies site) Sep 12 09:27:23 heh Sep 12 09:27:59 florian: sure, there are things which 770 is able to do but many of them can also be handled by cellphone today Sep 12 09:28:01 * Jaffa had to get the Flash 10 beta for the Flash video sites he uses to work, though. 9 was just too slow at refreshing :-( Sep 12 09:28:04 USB devices and an USB plug are a nece toy as well ;) Sep 12 09:28:18 eh nice Sep 12 09:41:03 Aargh, maemo.org is down just as I want to see the acommodation page for the summit. Sep 12 09:49:13 murrayc: doh Sep 12 09:52:22 :((( Geegle.com is already taken =((( Sep 12 09:52:37 Another brilliant business idea bites the dust! =) Sep 12 09:56:11 jaffa, you should get your little tangarine a touchscreen monitor (one of the saphire coated ones so it cant be broken) and show him what computers will be like soon :) (dont make him have gorilla arm though, lie it flat) Sep 12 09:56:29 lcuk2: that's be cool. Sep 12 09:56:39 * Jaffa goes to look for USB touchscreens Sep 12 09:56:47 Or, a whole new monitor Sep 12 09:56:59 you can get a touchscreen overlay for cheap :) Sep 12 09:58:01 That'd probably work quite well when it's the laptop screen; may be tricky with a 17" desktop monitor Sep 12 09:58:23 lim always worried when little lcuk gets on my tablet, the first few times with lukes ds it was liuke he was mining the screen Sep 12 09:59:09 Jaffa Jr. loves his (mum's) N810 and can navigate the bookmarks menu and stuff with the stylus. Likes TuxPaint, too. Sep 12 09:59:12 jaffa, get one from ebay aimed for EPOS systems, they are usually better more durable cabinets and geared towards laying flat / at an angle rather than upright Sep 12 09:59:30 jake like mahjong Sep 12 09:59:41 Mrs. Jaffa wants the N900 to be announced at the summit so I can get one of them and she can have an N810 all to herself again Sep 12 09:59:45 and youtube Sep 12 09:59:52 lol Sep 12 10:00:17 my missus almost threw mine away :( Sep 12 10:03:49 bbl Sep 12 10:05:24 Veery interesting, dneary. Sep 12 10:05:50 GeneralAntilles: Indeed Sep 12 10:06:33 All about establishing a norm & culture, and querying interests, and facilitating newcomers & communication Sep 12 10:11:14 lcuk: She threw your n8x0 away? How do you survive now? Sep 12 10:39:25 Interesting. One of the lightning sessions on Friday is now "Sneak preview" by Yannick Pellet (Nokia) Sep 12 10:40:02 Put baloo and his cameras as close to the stage as possible. Sep 12 10:40:18 heh Sep 12 10:40:23 Heh ;) Sep 12 10:40:45 We could just mug Yannick for whatever device he has ;-) Sep 12 10:40:52 . . . and lcuk and his Nokian snatching bag right next to him. ;) Sep 12 10:40:59 lol Sep 12 10:41:08 Great minds. . . . Sep 12 10:41:18 s/Great/Evil/ ;-) Sep 12 10:45:01 nokian snatching bag? Sep 12 10:45:30 i might be from manchester but that doesnt make me a scally Sep 12 10:45:47 It's for Sep 12 10:45:52 a good cause Sep 12 10:52:52 is there actually someone live blogging from aris keynote? :) Sep 12 10:53:00 gizmodo style :p Sep 12 10:53:08 * Jaffa may be too busy hanging on his every word. Sep 12 10:53:29 If there's a net connection, I'll type into here as stuff happens; unless there's a better live-blogging type thing. Sep 12 10:53:35 Twitter maybe? Never used it Sep 12 10:53:42 nah Sep 12 10:53:51 only nice thing would be pictures :) Sep 12 10:54:08 Not with my crappy W850i's camera. Sep 12 10:54:10 irc should be fine as microblogging system ;) Sep 12 10:54:30 just get close enough ;) Sep 12 10:55:45 upload images as asciiart Sep 12 10:56:17 |[ ]| <- n900 Sep 12 10:56:17 when is his presentation? Sep 12 10:56:32 Wednesday Sep 12 10:56:45 [ . : ] vulcan multitouch grip Sep 12 10:56:49 lcuk, like "Ari was unhappy with the 770's user experience, :-(. Now, with Fremantle, Ari is happy: :-D" ? Sep 12 10:56:55 lol Sep 12 10:57:19 'oh snappp! whats that hes got now??' Sep 12 10:57:28 jott: aren't we hoping for a smaller bevel? [__] ? ;-) Sep 12 10:57:34 heh Sep 12 10:58:01 and a good dpad :) [+ ] :) Sep 12 10:58:05 profile shot showing its thinner than a mac air --- Sep 12 10:58:09 hehe Sep 12 10:58:31 It sure a better Sep 12 10:58:41 It sure as hell better be. Sep 12 10:58:55 Preferably look as pretty, too Sep 12 10:58:57 retains the slideout keyboard: Sep 12 10:59:00 [ ] Sep 12 10:59:00 qwert Sep 12 10:59:05 heh Sep 12 10:59:11 Stupid fingerkeyboards sends when I don't want it to and wont when I do. Sep 12 10:59:33 im VERY tempted to put this sliding key input method in Sep 12 10:59:37 but i know id get in trouble Sep 12 11:01:47 lcuk: so what happened with your tablet? Sep 12 11:02:07 lcuk: look at their patents and work around it :) Sep 12 11:02:10 nothin, she *wanted* to throw it away :) Sep 12 11:02:25 lcuk: "sliding key input"? Sep 12 11:02:26 well my code will look nothing like their code Sep 12 11:02:36 lcuk: this swype thingy :) Sep 12 11:02:48 erm Jaffa ^^^ Sep 12 11:03:09 lcuk: that has nothing to do with patents.. Sep 12 11:03:13 that's copyright ;) Sep 12 11:03:39 so they have patented a method to use the touchscreen stylus to accept strokes and turn them into words? Sep 12 11:04:04 lcuk, you figure out screenshots yet? Sep 12 11:04:07 I still want to get that site up. :P Sep 12 11:04:09 we bought a touchscreen to do just that Sep 12 11:04:21 and, you know, it's not every project with a council member working on its website. :P ;) Sep 12 11:04:23 i was thinking about that earlier actually Sep 12 11:04:48 * Jaffa looks at http://www.swypeinc.com/ for a video Sep 12 11:04:52 i think i can save png quite easily, if i get inclination i will - i want to save actual sketches anyway Sep 12 11:05:31 lcuk: that can't be patented - I saw it years ago implemented as a Java applet. Sep 12 11:06:58 Jaffa: you remember what it was called. this thing looked somehow familiar to me but i couldn't tell where from :) Sep 12 11:07:18 Hmm, it's not coming to mind Sep 12 11:07:25 I'm sure it was discussed on ITT at well Sep 12 11:07:27 find some prior art so we can get it implemented as a h-i-m Sep 12 11:07:28 :P Sep 12 11:07:35 Hehe Sep 12 11:07:35 Jaffa: but yeah, i recall seeing something like this before Sep 12 11:07:58 The patent system is just screwed up enough these days that prior art probably wont actually have an effect. Sep 12 11:07:59 but even then, this could also be patented before and they bought the right/patent/patent holder what ever :P Sep 12 11:10:47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkFSGfe2NEQ Sep 12 11:10:48 * GeneralAntilles looks at the Summit schedule. Sep 12 11:11:05 hachi: http://www.almaden.ibm.com/u/zhai/topics/virtualkeyboard.htm Sep 12 11:11:14 IBM Research project called "SHARK" Sep 12 11:11:21 From http://www.primidi.com/2005/07/16.html Sep 12 11:12:02 I'm thinking Reggie and Krisse's presentation is either going to be really interesting or really lame. Sep 12 11:12:11 Ditto Sep 12 11:12:11 Jaffa: ah yeah indeed! Sep 12 11:12:15 thanks Sep 12 11:12:25 i think this was the one i had in mind ;) Sep 12 11:12:31 * Jaffa is relieved to have found it - would've killed me if I couldn't find it. Sep 12 11:12:32 me too Sep 12 11:13:08 Krisse's got a good finger on the pulse of users Sep 12 11:13:35 but it seems likely that it may just end up as a "we want PIM, we want a SIM card, we want iPhone things" Sep 12 11:15:00 Jaffa: I assume you mean to be telling someone else? Sep 12 11:15:07 "We want Canola to replace Maemo" Sep 12 11:15:15 :shudder: Sep 12 11:15:26 hachi: yes, sorry Sep 12 11:15:45 no worries, just wanted to make sure :) Sep 12 11:15:46 * Jaffa did first letter and missed 'j' by a character Sep 12 11:15:51 I tend to forget names :) Sep 12 11:16:05 Hadn't looked at the schedule in a while Sep 12 11:16:08 looks quite tasty Sep 12 11:19:24 lcuk: ufff Sep 12 11:19:55 * RST38h does not want Canola to replace Maemo Sep 12 11:20:03 Hehe Sep 12 11:20:08 No, and it wont happen. Sep 12 11:20:09 Given how prone Canola is to hangups... Sep 12 11:20:24 Not before they do away with dbus for communications with the player, anyway Sep 12 11:20:35 Indeed. It's exemplar of fairly uninformed comments you sometimes get on ITT, though Sep 12 11:21:04 It shows a) a lack of understanding of the problems of an OS-wide UI; b) a misunderstanding of the difference between an OS/platform and an application/app framework. Sep 12 11:21:07 I am totally ok if a FIXED Canola replaces Maemo media player though Sep 12 11:21:28 RST38h: yeah Sep 12 11:21:33 Krisse is a Symbian guy, you should forgive him that Sep 12 11:21:43 * aquatix rather likes the maemo `desktop' Sep 12 11:21:56 In Symbian, your "desktop" is nothing more than a scrollable list of 9 icons Sep 12 11:22:10 The rest is all apps Sep 12 11:22:13 or a today screen Sep 12 11:22:32 aquatix: it's getting there. I'm still not convinved about quite so many of the desktop metaphors being copied on such a physically small screen, but momentum seems to be in the right direction. I may be of a different opinion some time next week ;-) Sep 12 11:22:51 what would be awesome was to get my cellphone syncing with my n810 for contacts and agenda Sep 12 11:22:53 today screen is an app Sep 12 11:23:24 RST38h: maybe, but it's the default thing you see (standby screen) Sep 12 11:23:25 and it isn't the same across their phones, too Sep 12 11:23:30 or at least it is on my uiq3 phone Sep 12 11:23:37 true Sep 12 11:23:57 yea, but Nokia never claimed it to be a desktop, everybody in Symbian world treats it as an app Sep 12 11:24:15 rightly so, i guess Sep 12 11:28:09 Jaffa: http://www.mrl.nyu.edu/projects/quikwriting/ <- was the other one i had in mind. Sep 12 11:28:57 I think I'd seen a version of that years ago - but the page was different so it could've been a similar, but different impl. Sep 12 11:30:10 Jaffa: that's the one by ken perlin from 1999 :) Sep 12 11:30:45 (the input method not necessarily the site layout :) Sep 12 11:31:09 it's a bit different though. Sep 12 11:31:29 but still without lifting the pen. Sep 12 11:32:28 still there is probably a big patent cloud above all this :/ Sep 12 11:34:06 well we could just exclude the usa from any distribution channels :P Sep 12 11:36:53 jott: quikwriting already exists for maemo Sep 12 11:55:51 jott, if its not released whos being harmed Sep 12 11:56:03 * lcuk just wants to play Sep 12 11:56:20 jott, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3699 ? Sep 12 11:57:08 crap, i cant get 5 minutes today, back later Sep 12 11:58:22 3699? context? (just took a look at that one) Sep 12 11:59:34 Ah, plenware. Sep 12 11:59:53 I still want to know what their angle is. Sep 12 12:05:35 jott: the IBM one's been published in a paper, so it won't be patented (/me knows the joys of the internals of IBM's patent system) Sep 12 12:06:17 GeneralAntilles: would be interesting to see the totality of the bugs @plenware.com has touched Sep 12 12:07:59 https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&emailassigned_to1=1&emailreporter1=1&emailqa_contact1=1&emailcc1=1&emaillongdesc1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=plenware.com Sep 12 12:08:03 Probably not everything Sep 12 12:08:09 36 according to a "one of ... contains" conains plenware. Sep 12 12:08:14 https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailassigned_to1=1&emailreporter1=1&emailqa_contact1=1&emailcc1=1&emaillongdesc1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=plenware&emailassigned Sep 12 12:08:28 Missing a few bug states. ;) Sep 12 12:08:43 Of course. Numptu. Sep 12 12:09:00 64. Interesting variety. Sep 12 12:09:23 The test bugs are a nice touch. Sep 12 12:18:51 half of their comments are suitable deletion candidates Sep 12 12:19:58 I'm picturing them sitting in a sea of cubicles dicking around with tablets all day. Sep 12 12:20:08 I really, really wonder what they money behind it all is about. Sep 12 12:20:23 Meet the new Maemo UI team? :D Sep 12 12:22:05 :) Sep 12 12:22:36 buenos dias Sep 12 12:31:35 Jaffa, think we can get around to electing a chair yet? Sep 12 12:32:01 We should have a go - would be good to have that in the talk on Saturday. Sep 12 12:32:10 First step: ask if anyone *doesn't* want to be the chair? Sep 12 12:32:31 Want to handle it on- or off-list? Sep 12 12:33:17 My instinct says "off", but I suppose there's no reason it couldn't be on- (are people likely to chime in and say "I don't want /you/ to be chair" who aren't council?) Sep 12 12:33:38 Seems unlikely, but it's really an internal issue Sep 12 12:34:20 It is. Should our default position - for now, at least - be everything open unless it's really private (like, where/when we go for food ;-)) Sep 12 12:34:37 That's my inclination. Sep 12 12:35:06 * Jaffa is convinced it's better than any other alternative, despite the relative pros & cons Sep 12 12:37:09 Unless it's sensitive or truly internal (like the chair selection), discussions should be open by default. Sep 12 12:38:53 Isn't even the internal stuff being in the open good for two reasons: 1) the nebulous "transparency"; 2) setting an example for the /second/ council of what we're doing, how we're doing it, etc? Sep 12 12:39:20 Would seem inefficient for the same discussions to *have* to happen next March. Sep 12 12:39:35 Yeah, that's true. Sep 12 12:40:34 Let's try doing the chair selection in public and see what happens. If it's a disaster, it can be the last time we do internal stuff in public ;-) Sep 12 12:40:48 Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Sep 12 12:40:55 * GeneralAntilles goes to draft the email. Sep 12 12:40:59 Cos it's not really something important if it does get FUBAR Sep 12 12:40:59 Ta. Sep 12 12:41:14 * Jaffa 's in the middle of writing an evaluation for a particuarly tricky colleague. Sep 12 12:41:49 "hesuxhesuxhesuxhesux" Sep 12 12:42:08 Not in /everything/, and I think I have to be more constructive than that ;-) Sep 12 12:42:19 "He often keeps his beard trimmed" Sep 12 12:42:33 Ahahaha Sep 12 12:44:15 The chairperson's powers and responsibilities need to be figured out. Sep 12 12:45:46 Easy stuff: 1) Chairing, scheduling & agendaing meetings; 2) setting the tone? 3) probably *not* directing the council - that'd should be more consensus based Sep 12 12:45:58 Not imagining a lot of power, TBH Sep 12 12:46:11 Right Sep 12 12:46:29 I noticed some confusion about it in here the other day Sep 12 12:46:46 Really? Didn't spot it myself; worth id Sep 12 12:46:52 s/id/digging out a log URL?/ Sep 12 12:46:53 Jaffa meant: Really? Ddigging out a log URL?n't spot it myself; worth id Sep 12 12:46:58 Ha Sep 12 12:47:02 some people were under the impression that the chairperson was a "president" with real power. Sep 12 12:47:04 Bad regexp-fu Sep 12 12:47:18 Pfft. Nah. This is "chair" in a council sense, not a communist party sense ;-) Sep 12 12:47:28 Right Sep 12 12:47:36 The council doesn't have much power, except in voice. How could the chair? ;-) Sep 12 12:47:41 But it's probably worth being specific about that. Sep 12 12:47:54 Agreed. Nowt wrong with clarity Sep 12 12:51:16 does anyone have a solution for the flashing problem with Diablo? Sep 12 12:53:21 Andymeows: "flashing problem"? Sep 12 12:54:39 Hrm, any preference between chair/chairperson/chairman? Sep 12 12:54:43 I'm in favor of just "chair" myself. Sep 12 12:54:44 chairwoman Sep 12 12:54:45 :P Sep 12 12:54:57 Jaffa: write failed after 0 bytes Sep 12 12:54:57 GeneralAntilles: ditto. "chair" is, I think, the accepted business usage these days. Sep 12 12:55:11 chairslug Sep 12 12:55:24 Andymeows: Not seen it. As root? Sep 12 12:55:36 chairhe/she/it Sep 12 12:55:43 yeah, then: usb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable Sep 12 12:59:32 GAN: you can use "stool" Sep 12 13:00:15 RST38h, skip that and go straight to "feces"? :D Sep 12 13:00:33 Jaffa, ok I restarted it and tried again and it worked Sep 12 13:00:38 GAN: too inelegant Sep 12 13:00:50 Andymeows: cool ;-) Sep 12 13:01:01 It is sufficient to create this thought with the word play =) Sep 12 13:14:43 btw, kudos to whoever made it easier to pop the battery on n810 Sep 12 13:14:43 :P Sep 12 13:16:01 a little bit too easy sometimes Sep 12 13:16:25 true Sep 12 13:16:34 compared to fighting with it on n800.. Sep 12 13:16:34 :P Sep 12 13:16:48 Fight? Sep 12 13:16:53 It's easy as can be Sep 12 13:16:56 tap-tap Sep 12 13:17:03 Just throw it from the 3rd floor Sep 12 13:17:30 battery removal service, call 118 218 and say "N eight hundred" Sep 12 13:29:54 greetings Sep 12 13:41:34 so what's new? Sep 12 13:43:32 lo Talus46_n810 Sep 12 13:43:53 Everyone's on tenter hooks for the summit Sep 12 13:44:13 lol ;) Sep 12 13:44:22 really? Sep 12 13:44:30 where will it be? Sep 12 13:45:17 Berlin. Next week. Even if the hype we're working ourselves up with falls flat (Ari's keynote, Fremantle announcements, etc. etc.) it'll be good to put names to faces; see lots of cool stuff & drink some beer Sep 12 13:45:38 yes our good german beer Sep 12 13:45:42 is anything important expected at the summit? Sep 12 13:45:43 * GeneralAntilles still wants to pull a Cartman. Sep 12 13:45:49 Too bad it's still summer. . . . Sep 12 13:46:09 what is 'to pull a Cartman'? :) Sep 12 13:46:14 hehe Sep 12 13:46:20 Mek, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_God_Go Sep 12 13:46:30 ccooke: It's expected that Maemo 5 (Fremantle) will be announced, with more detail. It's also looking like it's possible there'll be an N900 announcement. Sep 12 13:46:40 well i'm sad because i can't go next week Sep 12 13:46:44 Mek, paragraphs 1 and 4 of the Plot summary. Sep 12 13:46:51 Jaffa: okay. All sounds good. Sep 12 13:46:54 The former's a dead cert. The latter, possibly wishful interpretation of various comments. Sep 12 13:46:57 :) ah yeah, saw that episode... Sep 12 13:47:05 nice n900 Sep 12 13:47:07 The Fremantle stuff'll possibly be more important. Sep 12 13:47:23 will it have a powerfull cpu? Sep 12 13:48:28 <_Shurik_> Hola fellow maemo-ists Sep 12 13:48:46 If it comes, it'll be powerfull*er* probably. Sep 12 13:49:07 OMAP3430, if anything. Sep 12 13:49:25 nice Sep 12 13:49:33 a 3G? Sep 12 13:50:27 Sure as hell hope not. Sep 12 13:50:34 There's practically no chance of it, anyway. Sep 12 13:58:28 * ccooke wonders what sort of improvement would be expected on an omap3430 Sep 12 13:58:53 ccooke: online porn will be running more smoothly in browser.. Sep 12 13:58:54 :P Sep 12 13:59:11 It currently... sticks? Sep 12 13:59:19 ccooke, TI has a website. Sep 12 13:59:25 Compare the stats to the OMAP2420 Sep 12 13:59:42 GeneralAntilles: I am... Sep 12 13:59:58 GeneralAntilles: but that's marketing :-) Sep 12 14:01:01 although at least it can power the screen... Sep 12 14:01:47 Much faster with the same battery life figures. Sep 12 14:02:08 Now that would be impressive. Sep 12 14:02:20 Eh, technology gets better over time Sep 12 14:02:35 The OMAP2420 is 2006 tech Sep 12 14:02:40 yeah, and every now and then it's nice to acknowledge the fact :-) Sep 12 14:02:44 We're going ARM11 -> Cortex A8 Sep 12 14:02:48 Hopefully, given TI are being more open in the OMAP3 range we'll get more of the hardware used, too :) Sep 12 14:03:24 Does anyone think there's a possibility (or even a need for) a higher resolution screen? Sep 12 14:03:41 It'd be nice, but it'd have to be physically bigger too, I think. Sep 12 14:04:01 Now there's some room for that in an N810 form factor, but I don't think it'll happen any time soon Sep 12 14:04:01 I might go for a ~4.5" 1024x600 Sep 12 14:04:05 Jaffa: They do XGA screens in roughly the same size, now Sep 12 14:04:10 Depending on how they work the size and shape Sep 12 14:04:34 <_Shurik_> I'm observing conversations in #maemo and #iphone. #maemo talks CPU and XGA screens Sep 12 14:04:39 <_Shurik_> #iphone talks silicone cases Sep 12 14:04:42 <_Shurik_> :-D Sep 12 14:04:52 ccooke: I'm with GA, it'd have to at least 4.5", I think. Of course, doesn't mean everything'd be smaller. Sep 12 14:04:59 _Shurik_: on the other hand, #iphone have a consumer-ready device. Sep 12 14:05:11 ccooke: we're (supposedly) only one step away... Sep 12 14:05:16 ccooke, and silicone cases Sep 12 14:05:24 Jaffa: two steps, IIRC Sep 12 14:05:29 I wouldn't have any issue with 4.1 at 1024x600 Sep 12 14:05:32 <_Shurik_> yes but of course there's planty of problems with it too Sep 12 14:05:36 <_Shurik_> so I'm keeping both Sep 12 14:06:16 GeneralAntilles: i.e. same physical size as now. Depends how much consistency and usability fremantle brings without just making everything bigger Sep 12 14:06:55 * ccooke is somewhat surprised to hear about Fremantle Sep 12 14:07:04 Diablo's barely released Sep 12 14:07:12 Er Sep 12 14:07:18 Diablo's a dinky maintenance release. Sep 12 14:07:39 Point. Sep 12 14:07:53 OS2008 is about 10 months old Sep 12 14:08:03 Major OS releases are yearly Sep 12 14:08:07 Do you know where maemo.org/downloads comes in the Google search for "Nokia N810 software download"? Sep 12 14:08:15 <_Shurik_> I haven't updated to Diablo yet. Is there a really good reson to? Sep 12 14:08:17 Fremantle is planned to have more community involvement in its development Sep 12 14:08:32 Nothing surprising at all. Sep 12 14:08:51 _Shurik_, just update, you're at least two revisions behind. Sep 12 14:09:12 <_Shurik_> Kinda scared. Haven't had any issues with Chinook Sep 12 14:09:21 <_Shurik_> but you're probably right... might as well Sep 12 14:09:59 is diablo the first mainentance release they did? Sep 12 14:10:14 (as in, the first non-full-yearly version?) Sep 12 14:10:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo_(operating_system)#Release_history Sep 12 14:10:57 ccooke: short answer, no. Sep 12 14:11:11 Weird: Sep 12 14:11:13 hum. Sep 12 14:11:22 I want a case where the front (clear) flips behind the back and acts as a stand somehow Sep 12 14:11:26 When I search for "site:http://maemo.org Nokia N810 software download", the download page is the 4th choice Sep 12 14:11:41 2 news pages and HOWTO FlashLatest... from the old wiki come first Sep 12 14:12:00 The downloads page without the "site:" qualifier is even worse Sep 12 14:12:08 It's not on the first 10 pages Sep 12 14:12:41 searching for API docs almost always brings you to v 3.1 docs Sep 12 14:13:06 mavhc, the tablets already have built-in stands. . . . Sep 12 14:13:32 dneary, can you delete those flashing howtos from the old wiki? Sep 12 14:13:50 GeneralAntilles: Probably Sep 12 14:14:03 searching for "n810 firmware" is even worse Sep 12 14:15:30 Need to start Google bombing, perhaps Sep 12 14:16:03 Need to clean up the site Sep 12 14:18:13 By the way, brontide, really nice work on the schedule. It looks good. Sep 12 14:19:00 Agreed Sep 12 14:19:17 I'm sorry you won't be there... I would have been nice to argue semantics over a few pints. Sep 12 14:19:22 Hmm, just noticed on Saturday: 12:30 "Nokia & Productivity tools" Sep 12 14:19:56 And, at the same time, Clutter - in the "core platform" track Sep 12 14:20:26 Gah... don't tell me there is a presentor conflict Sep 12 14:20:36 GeneralAntilles: I know, but they don't work when in a case Sep 12 14:20:39 No, just me wanting to be in two places at the same time :) Sep 12 14:21:09 ^ I would die trying to work that one out. Sep 12 14:21:48 GeneralAntilles: best not being there after all ;-) Sep 12 14:22:08 Likely. ;) Sep 12 14:23:35 gronmayer? Sep 12 14:23:39 Why doesn't the maemo.org logo on the wiki link to somewhere? Sep 12 14:23:40 bot? Sep 12 14:23:44 like the homepage Sep 12 14:23:54 brontide, it did for a while Sep 12 14:23:55 It links to maemo.org (or should do) Sep 12 14:24:00 I think was a recent change. Sep 12 14:24:01 it does. Sep 12 14:24:03 just checked. Sep 12 14:24:04 dneary: Will you put an SVG of the logo up somewhere? Sep 12 14:24:19 murrayc: I believe that one was mailed to the community list Sep 12 14:24:20 no linky here Sep 12 14:24:24 Hmm, screenshot for the current pearl (Evince) is a Linux desktop screenshot Sep 12 14:24:29 brontide: I guess there are no more lightning talk slots available on saturday for a quick talk about kde-on-maemo? :P Sep 12 14:24:30 I have the last-but-one revision, I believe Sep 12 14:24:52 Community file storage and content management - there's a problem space that we're not good at yet Sep 12 14:24:54 Sep 12 14:24:56 I'm not following it enough to know what's the correct image. Sep 12 14:25:23 Mek: put yourself down on the waitlist... right now we have 30 minutes and 6 5 minute Lightning sessions Sep 12 14:25:43 * Jaffa sees frogmetrics.com from the agenda - looks interesting. Sep 12 14:25:58 I wanna see the police car N810s Sep 12 14:26:39 The description is slightly different from what he emailed me... his talk will focus a little more on 3rd party development on the platform Sep 12 14:28:08 Jaffa: On the top of the wiki is a maemo.org graphical logo. It does not link anywhere... at least under firefox3 Sep 12 14:28:27 X-Fade, ping. Sep 12 14:28:36 brontide: at the top-left corner, where the wikipedia logo is on http://en.wikipedia.org/ ? Sep 12 14:28:43 GeneralAntilles: Yep Sep 12 14:28:54 X-Fade, can you linkify that image again? :P Sep 12 14:29:07 I didn't change it ;) Sep 12 14:29:20 Jaffa, you using the maemo.org theme for the wiki? Sep 12 14:29:31 top left ( I have a wikipedia skin so it's not there for me ) Sep 12 14:29:32 X-Fade, I swear it used to be a link to maemo.org Sep 12 14:29:55 GeneralAntilles: ah no, it was using Monobook on this machine. Sep 12 14:30:04 Yes. Now I see it :-) Sep 12 14:35:59 Mek: I'm pretty sure there will be some suffling when people arrive so there is a good chance you can do your demo Sep 12 14:37:36 And there'll always be breaks & stuff Sep 12 14:38:47 jaffa, frogmetrics, they are the ones who send n810s into a company, do a whole survey and have results on managers workstation live as it happens Sep 12 14:39:37 (at least thats the impression i got - it might not be that live, but they needed deployment of mobile wifi basestation to get results from users in realtime Sep 12 14:39:59 lcuk: indeed; looks effective Sep 12 14:40:02 * lcuk was very interested by the information and demonstration he saw :) Sep 12 14:41:19 ok, we NEED a very quick bluetooith business card transfer program for at the summit Sep 12 14:41:46 or are people sticking with original printed cards (i havent got any :() Sep 12 14:42:27 cack! i need to go again Sep 12 14:42:31 * lcuk cant get comfy today Sep 12 14:42:32 only got my work ones, will bring some - might meet someone willing to pay me a fortune to do very little Sep 12 14:48:09 For anyone staying in the same hotel as me (Mercure Mitte), here's a handy PDF combining hotel info, directions & Google map: http://bleb.org/misc/mercure-mitte.pdf Sep 12 14:48:59 <_Shurik_> I'm sorry, where is that event taking place? Sep 12 14:49:31 c-base, berlin, germany Sep 12 14:50:22 <_Shurik_> oh okay. Far far away Sep 12 14:52:59 * Stskeeps goes try to build dropbox for deblet Sep 12 15:08:25 SkyHook's made Slashdot: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/12/1255218 Sep 12 15:09:48 That seems like a bit of a privacy invasion. Sep 12 15:11:06 Yeah, but now Maemo Mapper - for example - could use the API to get loc data without a GPS connection. Sep 12 15:11:22 Or we can use it with AGPS Beta to better enrich the gpsd data Sep 12 15:12:33 Or, more likely, SkyHook'll change the username & password Sep 12 15:13:12 Doesn't know mine. Sep 12 15:19:37 gah.. fuckers - dropbox has a closed source daemon binary Sep 12 15:19:40 but open source client Sep 12 15:20:34 stskeeps, thats flase advertising - its like entering a brothel to find out they only have grotmags Sep 12 15:26:36 yeah, i prodded them to make an armel port Sep 12 15:42:15 is iwlist in any of the standard repos? Sep 12 15:44:46 no, there's no good support in the driver Sep 12 15:45:02 the driver doesn't support wireless extensions correctly Sep 12 15:45:14 curse you cx3110x Sep 12 15:46:21 Just be thankful you can connect to wifi at all. :D Sep 12 15:48:56 It's too bad there really aren't any decent open source friendly wifi chips. Sep 12 15:51:57 http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/g/r/greentroll/bitch.jpg Sep 12 15:58:30 <||cw> RST38h: where is that? Sep 12 16:00:05 Korea Sep 12 16:00:20 my guess is that they tried to spell "beach" Sep 12 16:01:51 engrish is always good for a laugh Sep 12 16:02:30 takes some effort to get words exactly wrong though =) Sep 12 17:00:47 i have just made the missus very happy, ive just said the words shes always wanted to hear, but never expected me to say: "Go to ikea..." Sep 12 17:34:36 "That looks dangerous"..... "It should be OK, I saw it work in a cartoon once..." Sep 12 17:35:23 what? chrome? Sep 12 17:43:08 lol Sep 12 17:46:44 GAN800: there are, Atheros Sep 12 17:46:45 :) Sep 12 17:50:21 lcuk: it's all downhill from there Sep 12 18:01:33 is there a way to rotate the screen on the 770? Sep 12 18:01:51 In many cases I'd prefer a longer screen Sep 12 18:04:39 rotation support for the 770 WAS possible... things went weird tho at some point Sep 12 18:04:49 and currently the method we use doesn't work, I believe :/ Sep 12 18:05:01 http://gizmodo.com/5049061/hp-exploring-shift-to-linux-in-order-to-bypass-vista-compete-with-apple Sep 12 18:05:02 Hehe Sep 12 18:05:05 though if you are running an older OS, there should be information about how to do that online Sep 12 18:05:21 you're not missing much alystair Sep 12 18:05:22 moo, rm_you Sep 12 18:05:34 m00 Sep 12 19:05:02 so quiet Sep 12 19:05:12 is it friday> Sep 12 19:05:20 yeah Sep 12 19:05:54 everybody just pretends to be afk and on a party :P Sep 12 19:06:11 yea, right... Sep 12 19:06:20 +6oC outside, wind and rain Sep 12 19:06:59 grab yourself a cocktail and enjoy the weather. Sep 12 19:07:10 (or just pretend :) Sep 12 19:08:05 im building a chair Sep 12 19:08:05 * Stskeeps is going to spend an evening debianizing deblet :/ Sep 12 19:08:11 :| Sep 12 19:08:26 jott: that's basically what I am doing Sep 12 19:08:35 and later i will be recreating liqbase from the ground up Sep 12 19:08:52 * RST38h has added universal "show framerate" option to all the emulators and is looking at /dev/fb0 usage Sep 12 19:09:46 RST38h, :) i now know 100% i can get fullscreen full resolution scaleblit in 25fps :) Sep 12 19:10:09 yoooo... Sep 12 19:10:19 wait...did you say SCALEblit? =) Sep 12 19:11:13 yes Sep 12 19:11:25 i added alpha blitting since, but thats a bit slower Sep 12 19:12:03 what size is the source image then? Sep 12 19:12:34 what scale-blit code are you using? Sep 12 19:12:54 RST38h, smaller or larger - doesnt actually matter Sep 12 19:13:08 it can't Sep 12 19:13:13 has to matter somehow Sep 12 19:14:50 not really - i recurse through the dest pixels - i occasionally increment the source pointer to skip pixels but thats about it Sep 12 19:15:24 if its a small image i inc less, if its large more - but they are in reg adds only (i assume the compiler does it stuff in a little tight loop) Sep 12 19:16:56 oh, you scale down Sep 12 19:21:59 RST38h, scale down or up :) Sep 12 19:23:37 hm Sep 12 19:23:41 nearest-neighbor interpolation so to speak :) Sep 12 19:23:53 on the other hand your destination is always the same size Sep 12 19:23:59 no, bresham algo turned to bitmap scaling Sep 12 19:24:00 so yea, you will have roughly the same time Sep 12 19:24:24 lcuk: well not much of a different... Sep 12 19:24:30 and i slightly overstated - its 23fps Sep 12 19:24:43 i just tested with large and small images Sep 12 19:24:57 no noticable difference Sep 12 19:25:35 (i had a strip at the top which was not being rendered (info bar) i just removed it Sep 12 19:26:35 * Jaffa eughs. Too much food & wine. Sep 12 19:26:48 still celebrating jaffa? :P Sep 12 19:27:24 Brother going back to uni Sep 12 19:27:34 never enough wine Sep 12 19:27:35 or bacon Sep 12 19:27:50 Both brothers have girlfriends. All sorts of celebrations Sep 12 19:27:57 * lcuk laughs evily cos he knows something you lot dont about next week Sep 12 19:28:21 We had chicken in red wine, with gammon strips & red wine. Sep 12 19:28:26 lcuk: oh? Sep 12 19:28:30 ari will announce the next itos will be based on liqbase :D Sep 12 19:28:37 ha Sep 12 19:28:47 :D itos?? liqit Sep 12 19:29:10 * lcuk has been create q*.c classes this week Sep 12 19:29:21 psh Sep 12 19:29:30 im sick of typing liq* Sep 12 19:29:38 it makes everything long Sep 12 19:30:10 i really hope we get some more powerful hardware cos i wanna see what i can do with c++ Sep 12 19:31:02 liqimage* liqimage_liqscalers_liqliqscale_liqme(liqimage *i, liqnumber w, liqnumber h) :P Sep 12 19:33:10 heh, scarily close Sep 12 19:33:11 liqimage *imgback = liqimage_createfromfilejpeg("marble_dark_400_240.jpg"); Sep 12 19:34:03 cliprect_drawimageblendcolor(cr,self->backimage,x,y,w,h,cy); Sep 12 19:34:21 no liqcliprect? :d Sep 12 19:34:38 what is wrong with you??? Sep 12 19:34:47 lol - there was but double barrelled classes seem wrong that way Sep 12 19:34:48 * jott liqs lcuk Sep 12 19:34:58 hehe Sep 12 19:35:04 * lcuk gives classes 2 names only Sep 12 19:37:00 15:30:10 < lcuk> i really hope we get some more powerful hardware cos i wanna see what i can do with c++ Sep 12 19:37:18 You want to make slow, bloated libraries that are difficult to program for? Sep 12 19:37:50 not at all - i will never stop trying to code small distinct funcional classes Sep 12 19:38:08 but i am sick of having to put 2 pages of boilerplate down before i can work Sep 12 19:38:57 ive just incorporated reference counting and subclassing (to a degree) and now dont need to worrk about releasing stuff later and double frees and stuff Sep 12 19:39:28 So, basically, the opposite of small and distinct? Sep 12 19:40:14 no, but if i have created a tree of objects and on each node I might be storing (lets say) a style structure. who frees it if i use it on 2 nodes? Sep 12 19:41:58 So by no, you mean yes. Sep 12 19:42:03 do i go to a database type system where all instances are allocated and memorized centrally? do i get double frees because both leave it open? do i get memory leaks because both assume the other will? Sep 12 19:42:45 no derf - this is boilerplate around 2 functions - the rest of the structure is exactly as it was (with 3 or 4 members and a few functions) Sep 12 19:43:21 Two pages of boilerplate for two functions? That's some serious boilerplate. Sep 12 19:45:12 yes, 1 for the actual alloc and free, and another to declare the header - im not gonna perlify it for the sake of space Sep 12 19:45:27 its just annoying to have to put stuff like this that i can get for free in c++ Sep 12 19:45:43 Nothing comes for free in C++. Sep 12 19:46:08 which is why ill probably end up making myself a preprocessor :) a new cfront Sep 12 19:46:20 For two functions! Sep 12 19:46:39 It's probably better than using C++, anyway. Sep 12 19:46:41 theres a few other things i can gain whilst im at it Sep 12 19:47:11 At least you won't make other people's lives miserable with a preprocessor. Sep 12 19:49:44 * RST38h added the frame buffer support Sep 12 19:49:50 No idea if it is gonna work though Sep 12 19:50:47 is this rgb? Sep 12 19:57:48 yea Sep 12 19:57:59 Actually, it gets interesting there Sep 12 19:58:08 /dev/fb0 is RGB565 Sep 12 19:58:22 /dev/fb1 and /dev/fb2 are YUV planes Sep 12 19:58:40 Rebooting to Linsux to try it Sep 12 20:04:29 so, i changed some led-settings with gconftool. how can i now "execute" the changes so they will actually work? Sep 12 20:07:17 hey, lcuk, where do I get omapfb.h? Sep 12 20:07:41 theres a few places i found it in and none were the same, but generally its in the kernel Sep 12 20:08:04 i tihnk ive got about 10 different variations here Sep 12 20:09:29 got it from stage Sep 12 20:31:26 in my gtk application everything is too small to be finger friendly... how do I make things larger? Isn't that normally a desktop theme issue? Sep 12 20:33:43 lbt: Depends what "everything" is. For example, you can put padding around the contents of buttons to make the buttons bigger... Sep 12 20:34:37 can I? yes. Would it suck? yes :) Sep 12 20:34:49 everything is the font Sep 12 20:34:58 the checkboxes Sep 12 20:35:06 the menubar buttons Sep 12 20:35:16 the combobox Sep 12 20:35:46 (I already hacked the menubar combobutton so the button as well as the arrow pop up the menu) Sep 12 20:36:17 I basically want to scale all the gui items to some degree Sep 12 20:36:52 (I'd also like to colour them too - I've not even looked at that yet though) Sep 12 20:37:00 For a menubar, hildon has a different call than regular GTK, to make it fit with the rest of the theme. Sep 12 20:38:29 in general do you know how I'd approach it? Sep 12 20:38:30 lcuk: Ok, it does not crash but looks like I am missing something Sep 12 20:38:34 I do not see the video Sep 12 20:38:39 Basically, the main window is a "hildon.Window()" instead of a "gtk.Window()", and the menubar is set with "window.set_menu(my_menus)". Sep 12 20:38:50 Screen stays black Sep 12 20:39:07 are you opening a black x window to coverthe main desktop? Sep 12 20:39:18 I do this: Sep 12 20:39:18 /* Wait for vsync */ Sep 12 20:39:18 ioctl(FBFD,OMAPFB_VSYNC); Sep 12 20:39:18 /* Request fb transfer to LCD video memory */ Sep 12 20:39:18 ioctl(FBFD,OMAPFB_UPDATE_WINDOW,&FBUpdate); Sep 12 20:39:24 In full screen mode Sep 12 20:39:24 Oh, I'm fine with the menubar - everyhing is functional Sep 12 20:39:33 Is there anything else I have to do? Sep 12 20:39:45 phone customer support, tell them your phone is dying, then toss it down from the roof Sep 12 20:39:51 so you have created the main x11 window to cover everything up (otherwise you get bleed through from desktop applets updating..) Sep 12 20:39:59 this is set to fullscreen and black Sep 12 20:40:31 nah, I do not have the main x11 window Sep 12 20:40:40 lbt: Maybe I just have pointier fingers, but I've found the maemo widgets to be plenty big for finger use, even after reducing the font size. Sep 12 20:40:57 Just switch to full screen mode, that s all Sep 12 20:40:58 then if its going black you are blitting something wrong - ie you are initialising something Sep 12 20:41:06 mmm - not really the answer I was looking for :) Sep 12 20:41:15 you say switch to fullscreen mode - the fb is always fullscreen Sep 12 20:41:19 Do you mean the two ioctl()s from above are sufficient to blit? Sep 12 20:41:25 lbt: A screenshot might explain faster. Sep 12 20:41:31 Well, I am telling OSSO that I am switching to full screen :) Sep 12 20:41:47 do it without the sync itself - it will tear but if its holding something up ytou will see Sep 12 20:41:54 well, right now my tablet appears somewhat unhappy Sep 12 20:41:57 most likely its the way you have initiialised the mode Sep 12 20:42:07 if you have extras-devel then get shopper Sep 12 20:42:17 lbt: I'm not sure if I can really help, but it helps to be looking at the same thing. :) Sep 12 20:42:18 see for yourself Sep 12 20:42:37 I'd appreciate it :) Sep 12 20:42:40 lbt, thats why i build from the top down - start with fullscreen and subdivide :) Sep 12 20:42:48 ok, here is my init code: Sep 12 20:42:53 pastebin Sep 12 20:43:07 FBFD = open("/dev/fb0",O_RDWR); Sep 12 20:43:19 lbt, even in gtk i do it that way - i dont use toolbars, i make a button strip Sep 12 20:43:23 lcuk: I was trying to learn "the maemo way" Sep 12 20:43:24 it sizes things within it Sep 12 20:43:36 the toolbar is the least of my worries Sep 12 20:43:39 FBImg.Data = (pixel *)mmap(0,800*480*sizeof(pixel),PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, Sep 12 20:43:39 MAP_SHARED,FBFD,0); Sep 12 20:43:46 pixels are 16bit Sep 12 20:43:51 I'm mainly interested in the checkboxes, label fonts etc Sep 12 20:43:54 Is this how I should do it? Sep 12 20:44:17 RST38h, no, you should ask omap for the memory ifiak Sep 12 20:44:34 lemme just dig Sep 12 20:45:19 Ah! Sep 12 20:45:25 tellme tellme tellme Sep 12 20:46:00 call FBIOGET_FSCREENINFO and obtain the required size Sep 12 20:46:09 then use that returned size for the call to mmap Sep 12 20:46:17 I am pretty sure 800*480*2 should do Sep 12 20:46:25 but what about the mmap address? Sep 12 20:46:41 i know yours may be getting the right size somewhere - but if you have miscalculated or its not the same internally you will go wrong Sep 12 20:46:54 RST38h: hmm. this should work actually.. Sep 12 20:47:00 yes but not badly right? Sep 12 20:47:35 RST38h: are you sure your update window is right? Sep 12 20:47:46 omapfb_screen_update(0,0, winW,winH, winW,winH, out_omapfb_format); Sep 12 20:47:49 dunno - I have quoted the update code before Sep 12 20:48:00 mmm? is there a function like that? Sep 12 20:48:02 yeah but i mean the FBUpdate Sep 12 20:48:13 Ok. Here it is: Sep 12 20:49:55 how are you initializing fbupdate and the flags within it Sep 12 20:49:57 the mmap returns something sane, right? (not MAP_FAILED) Sep 12 20:50:08 he's looking for it :) Sep 12 20:50:11 its the flags thats at fault here Sep 12 20:51:43 mplayer uses this method for updating :) Sep 12 20:51:50 i use it too :D Sep 12 20:52:44 but actually it just needs x,y,width,height,out_x,out_y,out_width,out_height,format (which i set to 0) Sep 12 20:52:48 what are you playin with now? Sep 12 20:52:52 bollocks - OK, my tablet isn't responding to touch properly. It makes a sound and touch when booting to Deblet is fine. But my diablo install is buggered Sep 12 20:53:01 lcuk: oh i played with fb stuff some time ago.. Sep 12 20:53:05 any idea what might be wrong? Sep 12 20:53:07 if (tearsync_flag) update.format |= OMAPFB_FORMAT_FLAG_TEARSYNC; Sep 12 20:53:12 mplayer :) Sep 12 20:53:20 lbt: I know this doesn't help, but it works fine for me... the only issues I had were missing features to edit or delete items. Sep 12 20:53:36 ToyKeeper: oh it all works Sep 12 20:53:45 it actually sounmds like its using different memory Sep 12 20:53:46 add items is easy - click the + button Sep 12 20:53:56 press and hold an item to edit Sep 12 20:54:06 (both available from the menu too) Sep 12 20:54:22 jott - i touched it for about 2 weeks right at the start Sep 12 20:54:24 however try wandering around a supermarket holding it in one hand Sep 12 20:54:51 I want about 5 items visible and to use my thumb to stab at the screen :) Sep 12 20:55:03 (and this is real-world user feedback too) Sep 12 20:55:03 Ah, the items were hiding behind a touch/hold menu. :) Sep 12 20:55:06 * lcuk calls this effect visiblefromorbit Sep 12 20:55:07 yes Sep 12 20:55:28 * lbt thinks lcuk is right Sep 12 20:55:54 i really dont see why all of hildon is designed to use smallest features Sep 12 20:55:56 think Fischer-Price.... Sep 12 20:56:00 we are not on a desktop and need big things Sep 12 20:56:04 Big colourful buttons Sep 12 20:56:12 like liqbase has :) Sep 12 20:56:15 that you can hit with a plastic hammer Sep 12 20:56:22 * lcuk gets a plastic mallet Sep 12 20:56:27 (lcuk I'm going to port it I swear) Sep 12 20:56:45 just give me a C++ interface... Sep 12 20:56:55 im surprised you cannot replace the list with a custom one built out of labels Sep 12 20:57:00 you say this is slow though Sep 12 20:57:02 If anyone is interested in an N800, I just put mine on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT Sep 12 20:57:18 invalid item Sep 12 20:57:18 well, I don't know why it's slow - I've not profiled it yet Sep 12 20:57:25 lbt, you mean: #ifdef __cplusplus Sep 12 20:57:25 extern "C" { Sep 12 20:57:25 #endif Sep 12 20:57:28 I'm using callbacks extensively Sep 12 20:57:32 lbt: You can edit $HOME/.osso/current-gtk-theme to change the font size, but it gets overwritten each boot and affects all programs. Sep 12 20:57:34 Havi, oh, I just listed it, maybe it's not really up yet. Sep 12 20:57:59 Er, no, I just cut off the wrong part of the url. >.>; Sep 12 20:57:59 ToyKeeper: and I really just want my app to change - I'm not rude Sep 12 20:58:00 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150294101560 Sep 12 20:58:31 liqbase->init(NOW); Sep 12 20:58:35 lbt, its a purely functional api - its not perfect and new layers get inserted all the time but its fun building something like this :) Sep 12 20:58:55 int canvas_init( int pixelwidth,int pixelheight,int rotationangle,int fullscreen); Sep 12 20:58:58 Really, maemo should allow the user to configure GTK fonts, preferably on a per-app basis. I had to override an init script just to keep it from clobbering my config. Sep 12 20:59:00 like that you mean :P Sep 12 20:59:15 indeed (lcuk and ToyKeeper) Sep 12 20:59:48 lbt, i try to write everything as a function and to give objects a lifespan Sep 12 21:00:00 OK - new topic... why is my tablet broke? Sep 12 21:00:07 just because im not writing in c++ doesnt mean i cant take advantage of things :) Sep 12 21:00:10 whats broke? Sep 12 21:00:18 touch Sep 12 21:00:23 it's kinda broke Sep 12 21:00:31 it clicks on touch Sep 12 21:00:35 lbt: messed with /etc/ts.conf by any chance? :) Sep 12 21:00:42 ah Sep 12 21:00:44 erm Sep 12 21:00:48 Sep 12 21:00:56 * lbt goes away Sep 12 21:01:26 back Sep 12 21:01:42 pmsl Sep 12 21:04:06 should there be a ts.conf normally? Sep 12 21:04:27 I have a problem running netcat in xterm on the N800 Sep 12 21:04:46 if I listen on the N800 I can connect to my desktop computer with it Sep 12 21:05:14 but I can't connect to my desktop computer (or any computer on the internet) from the pda, the connection just ends immediately, before any data is transfered Sep 12 21:05:27 any idea what could be wrong? Sep 12 21:05:48 what OS? firewall? iptables? Sep 12 21:06:14 debian linux on the desktop, I have a iptables firewall normally but disabled it while debugging Sep 12 21:06:30 but my desktop box isn't the problem, the same thing happens when connecting to, say, google.com port 80 Sep 12 21:06:35 the web browser can connect to google just fine Sep 12 21:07:58 what I'm trying to do is stream a movie using netcat to mplayer on the pda, this works fine when doing say "nc -l -p 1234 | mplayer -cache 2048 -" on the pda and "nc pda_ip 1234 < filename.avi" o the desktop box Sep 12 21:08:13 but I want to initiate the connection from the N800, so I don't have to walk over to my computer to initiate the streaming Sep 12 21:08:19 and it just doesn't work Sep 12 21:09:17 ssh Sep 12 21:09:49 I suppose that would work, but I still want to know whats wrong :P Sep 12 21:10:02 lbt: Increasing the font size appears to work in the main app area, but doesn't change much elsewhere... got a couple shots to show what changes. Sep 12 21:10:04 so what are you trying to do/run? Sep 12 21:10:04 http://toykeeper.net/tmp/maemo-shopper-14pt.png Sep 12 21:10:10 http://toykeeper.net/tmp/maemo-shopper-36pt.png Sep 12 21:10:43 ToyKeeper: nice start :) Sep 12 21:11:28 I seem to have buggered my NIT by playing with tslib and screwing /etc/ts.conf Sep 12 21:11:45 TPC: I meant what command are you using? Sep 12 21:12:18 nc desktop_ip 1234 Sep 12 21:12:24 ToyKeeper: frankly, I want it to be sexier Sep 12 21:12:44 lbt: my ts.conf just contains module pressure and module linear. but when i played around with tslib and modified ts.conf it also broke ts input under hildon at one point :) Sep 12 21:12:47 it's a bit boring (and yes, I know it's a shopping list!!!) Sep 12 21:13:01 if I run in verbose mode it doesn't give an error, just ends immediately saying 0 byte sent, 0 bytes recieved Sep 12 21:13:22 and the netcat on the desktop computer never gets the connection Sep 12 21:13:24 jott: I appear to have removed mine Sep 12 21:13:35 same thing happens if I do, say, nc google.com 80 Sep 12 21:13:52 lbt: maybe add those two lines and see if it helps? Sep 12 21:14:01 I thought I was playing in initfs Sep 12 21:14:04 am doing ta Sep 12 21:14:28 I think it may just be a bug in the maemo build of netcat Sep 12 21:15:19 jott: Thanks :) Sep 12 21:15:42 TPC - sounds like it. I wonder if netcat is trying to connect to a terminal or something? Sep 12 21:15:52 should work in an xterm... Sep 12 21:15:53 hmm Sep 12 21:16:00 hm.. I wonder if the one from debians arm distribution would work Sep 12 21:16:08 what about sshing into the tablet from the PC Sep 12 21:16:10 lbt: ah nice. did it work? Sep 12 21:16:20 yes that got my menus back Sep 12 21:16:36 jott :) you saved the world again Sep 12 21:16:41 lbt, that works fine Sep 12 21:16:51 then running nc Sep 12 21:17:07 oh Sep 12 21:17:09 ie ssh to tablet and run nc google.com 80 Sep 12 21:17:15 I'll try Sep 12 21:17:29 note, same thing Sep 12 21:17:31 nope Sep 12 21:17:43 nc --help Sep 12 21:17:50 it may be an old version Sep 12 21:18:16 also nc -t ? Sep 12 21:18:29 so nc -t google.com 80 Sep 12 21:18:44 exactly the same Sep 12 21:18:59 can I paste 4 lines in here? Sep 12 21:19:19 RST38h: does! Sep 12 21:19:24 for version it says gnu netcat 0.7.1 Sep 12 21:20:09 when downloading binaries from debians arm distribution should use download from the arm or armel distro? Sep 12 21:20:18 neither Sep 12 21:20:21 maemo Sep 12 21:20:32 they don't have a maemo distro Sep 12 21:20:32 that may be the problem... Sep 12 21:20:42 maemo isn't debian... Sep 12 21:20:49 I know, but some of the binaries are compatible Sep 12 21:20:53 I didn't get the current copy of netcat from there Sep 12 21:20:55 it has different build deps Sep 12 21:21:11 yes, I'll extract the deb on my desktop and copy over the files Sep 12 21:21:20 I did it for some other package and it worked fine Sep 12 21:21:30 it's trivial to apt-get source netcat Sep 12 21:21:41 and then run debian/rules binary Sep 12 21:21:46 inside scratchbox Sep 12 21:22:04 (although, granted, setting it up isn't trivial) Sep 12 21:22:10 I don't have scratchbox, would be a bit of a pain for me to set up since I run a 64 bit os Sep 12 21:22:17 would have to set up a 32 bit chroot or something Sep 12 21:22:41 you chinook? Sep 12 21:22:45 or diablo? Sep 12 21:22:53 diablo Sep 12 21:23:15 diablo? Sep 12 21:23:44 ah, hibernation over trenka? Sep 12 21:24:45 hm.. that seems to work Sep 12 21:24:48 no trenka around Sep 12 21:25:03 downloaded this: http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/pool/main/n/netcat-openbsd/netcat-openbsd_1.89-3_armel.deb Sep 12 21:25:13 TPC: I just built it for you too Sep 12 21:25:33 want a netcat-traditional_1.10-38_armel.deb Sep 12 21:25:40 sure, I guess Sep 12 21:25:58 let me at least install/test first Sep 12 21:26:04 to make sure it works!! Sep 12 21:26:11 any like kernel developer around? Sep 12 21:26:16 ok Sep 12 21:26:42 jott: still here? Sep 12 21:26:56 TPC: yep, works fine Sep 12 21:26:59 I'm not approved to get maemo sammit Sep 12 21:27:08 ok :) Sep 12 21:27:19 email? Sep 12 21:27:33 andreas@tpwch.com Sep 12 21:27:45 maybe you should see if you can use it to replace the ones in the extras repo Sep 12 21:27:48 as that one seems broken Sep 12 21:27:56 Hmm, I hadn't tried a shopping list on my todo list app before. It seems to work fine except for being designed for vim users. Sep 12 21:28:42 on its way TPC Sep 12 21:29:32 got it, installing now Sep 12 21:29:44 ToyKeeper: which todo list is that? Sep 12 21:30:24 lbt, yep, it works Sep 12 21:30:28 cool :) Sep 12 21:30:39 thanks Sep 12 21:30:46 so there are three different implementations of netcat, gnu, traditional, and openbsd Sep 12 21:30:47 lbt: TKDO ( http://toykeeper.net/programs/tkdo/ ) ... I haven't packaged it for maemo yet. Sep 12 21:30:50 interesting Sep 12 21:31:21 RST38h: yes. Sep 12 21:31:21 It works; I just haven't fixed up some details and added packaging. http://toykeeper.net/tmp/maemo-tkdo-shopping.png Sep 12 21:31:22 I just did: apt-get source netcat; dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b Sep 12 21:31:31 so whatever came down... Sep 12 21:32:28 do you have a version that works with emacs org-mode files? Sep 12 21:33:10 jott: sorry, my computer keeps crashin Sep 12 21:33:19 Anyway here is what I have for the update struct Sep 12 21:33:41 FBUpdate.x = 0; Sep 12 21:33:41 FBUpdate.y = 0; Sep 12 21:33:41 FBUpdate.width = FBImg.W; Sep 12 21:33:41 FBUpdate.height = FBImg.H; Sep 12 21:33:41 FBUpdate.format = OMAPFB_COLOR_RGB565 Sep 12 21:33:41 | OMAPFB_FORMAT_FLAG_TEARSYNC Sep 12 21:33:43 | OMAPFB_FORMAT_FLAG_FORCE_VSYNC; Sep 12 21:34:10 you need to set the output rect too i would say. Sep 12 21:34:32 out_* Sep 12 21:36:47 oh Sep 12 21:36:59 this is nice, netcat and mplayer makes a nice combo Sep 12 21:37:14 can I set different w/h? Sep 12 21:37:22 RST38h: yes. it then uses the hw scaling. Sep 12 21:37:22 TPC - wiki entry? Sep 12 21:37:23 now I don't have to copy over video files to the sd card when watching on the N800 within range of my wifi Sep 12 21:37:36 now to figure out how to get mencoder to output to a pipe Sep 12 21:37:50 so I don't have to wait for encoding and can just start watching right away :) Sep 12 21:37:54 lbt, good idea Sep 12 21:38:26 jott: wow Sep 12 21:38:42 gonna try that =) Sep 12 21:39:24 are there predefined scaling factors or any factor will work? Sep 12 21:39:32 RST38h: any factor should do. Sep 12 21:39:47 it's really just input rect -> output rect :) Sep 12 21:41:02 IT WORKS Sep 12 21:41:08 sweet :) Sep 12 21:41:11 WONDERFUL Sep 12 21:41:30 RST38h: whacha working on? Sep 12 21:42:31 GBA emulator Sep 12 21:42:44 OK :) Sep 12 21:43:06 I just want to draw simple things on the fb from initfs Sep 12 21:43:18 one day... Sep 12 21:43:39 lbt: hehehe i hear ya Sep 12 21:45:07 lbt: did you see fb-progress source? Sep 12 21:45:10 jott, i thought scaling only applied for yuv mode, yes rgb can have pixeldoubling, but i was sure it didnt work - i think its why mplayer remains as it is Sep 12 21:45:27 lcuk: hmm.. sure? Sep 12 21:45:46 well all the attempts at rgb scaling have been to get pixeldoubling working Sep 12 21:45:47 i thought it's more a limitation on the X11 side. Sep 12 21:46:05 no, if you have the data you should be able to push it over and have the hardware scale it Sep 12 21:46:10 Stskeeps: no, not yet - playing with tslib still (again) Sep 12 21:46:14 you tell it a region because thats all you want to update Sep 12 21:46:18 lbt: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/osso-af-utils/src/ Sep 12 21:46:19 I'll make a note though - ta Sep 12 21:46:42 was some time ago i did the fb stuff, so you might be right. Sep 12 21:46:54 best bet to just try it :) Sep 12 21:46:56 jott, if it was so simple to do arbitary scaling everyone would have it .. Sep 12 21:47:03 I will try in a moment Sep 12 21:47:08 everyone as in,..... ?! Sep 12 21:47:09 good thanks rst Sep 12 21:47:13 you are in a position right now :) Sep 12 21:47:32 there is nearly no one using the fb directly :) Sep 12 21:47:58 mplayer probably the only one ..hehe Sep 12 21:48:02 mplayer does, sdl does Sep 12 21:48:07 (as in omapfb, not linux fb) Sep 12 21:48:10 sdl? no.. Sep 12 21:48:13 yes Sep 12 21:48:13 yea, the missionary position... Sep 12 21:48:18 how can i give '-100' value with gconftool for /apps/osso/sound/master_volume ? Sep 12 21:48:19 sdl has an omapfb backend? Sep 12 21:48:22 yes Sep 12 21:48:26 since when? Sep 12 21:48:30 i've tried pretty much all i know but no luck Sep 12 21:48:36 and where? Sep 12 21:48:53 mmm Sep 12 21:49:52 hang on it calls X11_MITSHMUpdate(current_video,1,&rect); which calls it - it should have been possible to natively support arbitary res still Sep 12 21:50:09 yeah thats completely different stuff :) Sep 12 21:50:12 i said yes because i was following down sometime in the past Sep 12 21:50:16 yer i realise no Sep 12 21:50:18 w Sep 12 21:50:35 well RST38h can tell us in moment. would be nice to know for sure :) Sep 12 21:50:44 fuck, battery just ran out Sep 12 21:50:47 :( Sep 12 21:51:05 np, rebooting from pwr outlet Sep 12 21:52:05 always sucks to get a black screen when you are in the middle of something.. Sep 12 21:52:30 you have that moment of panic "did i make a whoopsie" Sep 12 21:53:19 x3 seems to work fine Sep 12 21:53:40 anyone wants me to try something different? Sep 12 21:53:51 whoo, it works Sep 12 21:53:56 encoding to good quality and streaming on the fly to mplayer on n800 Sep 12 21:54:02 RST38h: try full 800x480? :) Sep 12 21:54:12 TPC :) Sep 12 21:54:20 i am doing just that Sep 12 21:54:34 TPC now integrate it into MythTV... Sep 12 21:54:48 (shouldn't be that hard actually) Sep 12 22:04:23 slashdot/sourceforge down :( Sep 12 22:06:05 OMG they killed the interoueb ! Sep 12 22:06:52 lcuk: good riddance.. with those ads sf deserved it Sep 12 22:06:53 they did when i need a tarball from there Sep 12 22:06:53 :P Sep 12 22:07:04 i agree sts Sep 12 22:09:07 lcuk: there are plenty of mirrors for the files :) Sep 12 22:10:41 gulp, i got the one i needed and now im gonna walk away Sep 12 22:29:15 hello Sep 12 22:29:57  I ask a question about touch screen? Sep 12 22:31:45 The touch screen of my n810 has suffered damage, someone knows a way to turn off the touch screen and work only with the sliding keyboard? Sep 12 22:34:19 fredyrivera, someone earlier had a problem where touchscreen was disabled for him, i gather its damaged and always pressed on something? Sep 12 22:35:02 or is this possibly a software symptom Sep 12 22:36:58 yes, my ts is always clicking, so I wish disable Sep 12 22:37:49 lbt, was your screen completely disabbled by your vandalism? Sep 12 22:37:57 fredyrivera, what actually happened? Sep 12 22:38:17 lbt, any others interested: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=223452#post223452 Sep 12 22:38:30 and can you not just get a warranty replacement? Sep 12 22:41:08 I live in colombia and the device was buy in the U.S., Nokia has no repair service in colombia. Sep 12 22:42:25 if you have a us receipt you could at least contact nokia and see what they say about posting it Sep 12 22:42:43  I think if I send the parts, I could change it, but it's hard to sell such parts Sep 12 22:44:06 would pay the repair, but who will not be repaired Sep 12 22:46:28 for now, I wish to disable the TS to work as my n810 Gps, as I do that? Sep 12 22:47:04 just scrollin back now to see how he fixed his problem Sep 12 22:47:20 perhaps you could attempt to unfix his problam and stop screen working Sep 12 22:49:12 ahh, it might not work, but the user had removed a file "/etc/ts.conf" and it broke his tablet and nothing would click properly Sep 12 22:49:36 I do not want to turn off the screen, only the TS, I can also operate the device by ssh or x11vnc, but it is annoying that always click Sep 12 22:52:48 mmm, I was very happy with my n810, mapping colombia for openstreetmap.org, but an excursion was beating and damage: ( Sep 12 22:53:07 :( thats not good Sep 12 22:53:48 * sp3000 suspects mangling pointercal wouldn't help Sep 12 22:53:49 my n810's networkmanager has lost itself twice today. first it was connecting forever, now it's searching forever. how do I restart it without rebooting? Sep 12 22:54:20 Chani: try going into offline mode? (short powerbutton press -> ...) Sep 12 22:54:50 sp3000: no luck Sep 12 22:55:13 it still lists the networks from school, and I'm at home, and it never finishes searching Sep 12 22:55:14 ok, framerates are way up with fb0 Sep 12 22:55:36 also, the web browser has been going crazy a lot since I upgraded Sep 12 22:55:56 hm, like you exit the scanning dialog and come back and it shows wrong networks? Sep 12 22:56:03 getting 20-25fps in vgba Sep 12 22:56:16 where's the | character? Sep 12 22:56:19 bedtime =] Sep 12 22:56:25 sp3000: yes, wrong networks and "searching" forever Sep 12 22:56:56 Chani: Chr, second page Sep 12 22:57:05 found it Sep 12 22:57:21 * sp3000 mapped it to Fn - Sep 12 22:57:23 any idea what the network-y processes might be called? Sep 12 22:58:04  Now I have to disconnect, if someone has an idea, please send me a mail to fredyrivera at gmail dot com Sep 12 22:58:32 thanks for the help Sep 12 23:00:04 Chani: I suppose you could |/etc/init.d/this-or-that restart| for random things until you get success, reboot, or an even more confused state ;) Sep 12 23:00:27 hrm. I need to get bash completion on this thing Sep 12 23:00:39 and ssh-server Sep 12 23:01:31 sp3000: will I be able to do that without root? Sep 12 23:01:51 unlikely Sep 12 23:02:23 blarg Sep 12 23:02:52 icd2 is the intarwebs connectorification dabbler, wlancond is a wee lan condensator doohickey Sep 12 23:03:12 * sp3000 needs sleep :) Sep 12 23:45:45 AStorm, with good wifi powersaving and everything? I don't think so. :P Sep 13 00:00:05 Bleh, he's back at it again Sep 13 00:00:06 https://wiki.maemo.org/Ext2_file_system_on_flash_card_partition Sep 13 00:00:08 That article seriously needs to die. Sep 13 00:00:16 "How to break your tablet in 10 easy steps" Sep 13 00:02:31 Snarky shit like this doesn't belong in the wiki: https://wiki.maemo.org/Ext2_file_system_on_flash_card_partition#Why_you_should_consider_an_other_method Sep 13 00:02:36 It needs to die. . . . Sep 13 00:08:10 anyone care to troubleshoot vnc on nokia 770 running os 2006 Sep 13 00:09:14 trying to connect from linux mint PC to nokia 770 via vncserver on mint pc Sep 13 00:09:51 do I need anything other than vnc/vncserver installed on both? Sep 13 00:10:24 GeneralAntilles: such comments are the reason for Talk: Sep 13 00:10:58 the page doesn't even have proper capitalisation Sep 13 00:11:15 dystopia, yes, which is yet another reason why I want the article dead. ;) Sep 13 00:11:44 The primary reason, of course, being that the method described is _extremely_ unstable and unsafe Sep 13 00:12:14 and is superseded by a much better method: Sep 13 00:12:16 ~boot-sd Sep 13 00:12:19 somebody said boot-sd was https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card Sep 13 00:13:31 what's the command for connecting via VNC to nokia from PC Sep 13 00:13:32 move it to some obscure wiki :> is there a process to declare a page for deletion? Sep 13 00:14:01 Yeah, I already tried. Sep 13 00:14:03 He spazzed out Sep 13 00:14:20 and qgil jumped in and defended him for some goddamn reason Sep 13 00:15:41 well what he stated could be reworded in far less lines... Sep 13 00:16:17 I could fix the article up myself Sep 13 00:16:18 but why? Sep 13 00:16:35 So there can be a good article for a really, really, terrible method of getting more application install space? Sep 13 00:16:37 I don't think so. Sep 13 00:17:22 VNC anyone? Sep 13 00:17:43 less garbage makes it easier to read Sep 13 00:17:45 mdg, if you installed x11vnc on the tablet, then there should be a menu entry to start it Sep 13 00:17:55 then find yourself a client on the Linux machine and connect to your tablet's IP. Sep 13 00:18:07 dystopia, I don't want anything about it to be easy. ;) Sep 13 00:18:09 I want it deleted. Sep 13 00:18:31 yes, trying to connect from my PC to the tablet via vnc Sep 13 00:19:01 don't understand the commands: vnc XXXXX (ip address = XXXX) and then what Sep 13 00:19:55 ~seen dneary Sep 13 00:19:59 dneary was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 9h 55m 6s ago, saying: 'Community file storage and content management - there's a problem space that we're not good at yet'. Sep 13 00:21:32 do I need ssh as well in 2006 Sep 13 00:21:36 why not simplt delete it ;> Sep 13 00:22:22 dystopia, because I made the mistake of trying to go about it the nice way the first time aroumd Sep 13 00:22:23 GeneralAntilles, what's the fuss about? Sep 13 00:22:40 Now I need some sort of consensus. Sep 13 00:23:06 GAN800, ask me, I'm always impartial, fair, just, and agreeing with the one who pays most Sep 13 00:23:11 https://wiki.maemo.org/Ext2_file_system_on_flash_card_partition Sep 13 00:24:05 Create a template for pages that are outdated and are currently under discussion Sep 13 00:24:15 we can actually make it big and ugly so that no one misses it Sep 13 00:24:28 Already exists Sep 13 00:24:37 then why isn't it on this page? Sep 13 00:24:47 It's not really 'out-of-date' though Sep 13 00:24:49 sometimes the wiki on maemo is such a mess Sep 13 00:25:07 I try. :P Sep 13 00:25:20 Tell me where you need a hand Sep 13 00:25:44 I'm serious, gimme directives. In a dayjob, I know what I have to do. In a community, I never know, because everything I try will always piss off someone Sep 13 00:26:07 lol Sep 13 00:26:08 GAN800, I are your base Sep 13 00:26:27 Well, put a comment on the talk page under the deletion thread that you're in favor of deleting. Sep 13 00:27:02 Some general stuff is outlined here: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemowiki_Action_Group Sep 13 00:27:08 Needs updating, though. Sep 13 00:27:10 Slap your name on the bottom of that list. Sep 13 00:28:43 These are the old midgard articles: https://wiki.maemo.org/Category:Midgard_wiki Sep 13 00:28:51 They all need to be fixed up and cleaned Sep 13 00:29:40 A karma plugin for the wiki would be really useful Sep 13 00:29:51 so if you want to poke bergie about getting going on that. . . . Sep 13 00:33:12 GeneralAntilles, what's the plugin supposed to do? Sep 13 00:33:25 GeneralAntilles, see who works a lot on different pages? Sep 13 00:33:26 no luck with vnc Sep 13 00:33:46 actually, lcuk uses vnc quite a lot :D Sep 13 00:34:02 only at work Sep 13 00:34:08 Grab the number of edits from each user, do a karma calculation on that number and add it to a user's karma count. Sep 13 00:34:46 lcuk, it was just a poor wordplay on "no lcuk with vnc" Sep 13 00:34:56 So, if you login and click 'prefs' up top it'll show you your edits Sep 13 00:35:31 actually, that shouldn't be a wiki plugin Sep 13 00:35:32 Need to find a better interface to get that number and collect them for karma. Sep 13 00:35:43 karma plugon Sep 13 00:35:45 in Sep 13 00:35:49 for midgard Sep 13 00:36:02 that calculates karma for the wiki Sep 13 00:36:39 have you seen dneary's proposition? Sep 13 00:36:45 I quite like it, tbh Sep 13 00:36:49 about what? Sep 13 00:37:01 Igot a message that the New X desktop is name-desktop Sep 13 00:37:01 website refreshing Sep 13 00:37:18 Oh, yeah, haven't done more than sci. it. Sep 13 00:37:24 scim Sep 13 00:38:23 http://abstrusegoose.com/strips/a_wise_man_once_said.PNG Sep 13 00:38:27 this is just so true Sep 13 00:47:26 geez,I can'teven get VNC working! Sep 13 00:48:45 start the server on your n810, start the client on your pc, enter ip of your nokia in connection box and bingo! Sep 13 00:49:38 if theres a firewall or routing problem then thats your configuration issue Sep 13 00:49:39 s/bingo/profit/ Sep 13 00:49:56 * lcuk is not an underpant gnome Sep 13 00:53:21 lcuk, no, but you live up north and talk funny, therefore, you must be one of the forefathers of Slashdot Sep 13 00:54:05 ive got a 6 digit uid on /. you tell me if im a forefather Sep 13 00:56:27 by the way crashanddie, is it considered multitouch if you keep one finger still? Sep 13 00:56:31 well, thumb Sep 13 00:56:40 lcuk is 770 running os2006 Sep 13 00:56:45 lcuk, i've been thinking about that Sep 13 00:57:00 mdg, excellent, at least graphically ill be faster than this 810 Sep 13 00:57:32 well i kinda have the algo in place, but its a bit jittery atm - needs a filtering stage to make it work better Sep 13 00:58:52 what would be the name of the vnc client on a pc Sep 13 00:59:39 vncviewer.exe or similar, have you never used vnc? Sep 13 00:59:46 no never have Sep 13 01:00:02 ahhh that explains it then Sep 13 01:00:11 * lcuk thought vnc was taught in kindergarden Sep 13 01:00:32 oh i type vncviewer and had a pop-up box and when I typed in the IP of my nokia it was unab le to connecty Sep 13 01:00:58 do you have a firewall between your pc and your nokia Sep 13 01:01:00 it says "no route to host" Sep 13 01:01:06 software on pc, on router etc Sep 13 01:01:14 can you ping your nokia from your pc Sep 13 01:01:44 pc I am using is running Mint Cassadra connected via wifi to router configured as AP Sep 13 01:03:00 connection refused - uh oh Sep 13 01:04:21 crashanddie, is the nokia pingable by default? (i seem to recall it is) Sep 13 01:07:25 Hmm, Sep 13 01:08:29 lcuk, yeah Sep 13 01:08:48 thought so, mine is now, but wasnt sure if i'd added anyfink Sep 13 01:12:13 I can't believe this is so hard! Sep 13 01:12:48 its not, you simply have a paranoid security configuration :) Sep 13 01:13:51 yeah, leave it to me to be paranoid! LOL Sep 13 01:14:24 best security is to restrict services from the network :) Sep 13 01:15:34 is it your router thats fudgin you or a software firewall on your pc Sep 13 01:15:58 no firewall on either mint pc Sep 13 01:16:23 windows pc isnt' even turned on Sep 13 01:16:36 ahhhh that explains the paranoia :) Sep 13 01:16:54 LOL Sep 13 01:17:22 * lcuk cant talk - im runnin in windows Sep 13 01:18:06 is your 810 connected to the network? Sep 13 01:18:20 So, QR code decoding works. Sep 13 01:18:21 can it see the other machines and the wider internet Sep 13 01:18:28 NICE derf Sep 13 01:18:37 or should i say 10011010101011011101 Sep 13 01:18:46 yes Sep 13 01:18:59 I've got one code I can't decode, but I can't decide if it's just totally broken, or some other variation of the format. Sep 13 01:19:05 The version bits are in the wrong order, for example. Sep 13 01:19:26 see other machines? Sep 13 01:19:31 is it a random image you found online, or a live in use code on a product Sep 13 01:19:39 Random image online, of course. Sep 13 01:19:54 mdg, yeah your network should be crawling with other infected zombies ;) Sep 13 01:20:06 have you tried mirror/flipping it - or does the algo cater for it Sep 13 01:20:14 infected zombies? Sep 13 01:20:18 lcuk: No, I mean, they're interleaved in the wrong order. Sep 13 01:20:25 No amount of flipping will help you. Sep 13 01:20:31 ahhh, but i have seen people often randomly flip barcodes for asthetic purposes ;) Sep 13 01:21:02 As in, they're in a 3x6 area, and the bits read down columns, instead of across rows. Sep 13 01:21:11 what other places have the codes available Sep 13 01:21:17 can you goto a shop and test it Sep 13 01:21:31 I haven't got it into the full app yet. Sep 13 01:21:41 Just a command-line program for testing. Sep 13 01:22:29 arent the best programs command line driven Sep 13 01:22:43 Of course, but it makes it inconvenient to use in the actual device. Sep 13 01:23:01 I want to do some more work on the binarization, too. Sep 13 01:23:13 It's got some pretty clear deficiencies. Sep 13 01:24:39 glad you are advancing though :) is this all your own code or have you swiped and converted on of the java (or other) libs Sep 13 01:25:05 This is basically all my own. Sep 13 01:25:20 I started with someone else's Reed-Solomon decoder, but I changed it a lot. Sep 13 01:26:17 mangling is fun Sep 13 01:26:21 oh well - thanks for the help Sep 13 01:27:47 I should let the guy doing the Java one know. Sep 13 01:28:20 The generator polynomial he's using is starting from the wrong index, so it's totally busted. Sep 13 01:28:22 even though you turned his canoe into an ocean going liner Sep 13 01:28:53 The only reason his code works at all is that it doesn't correctly reject things when there's too many errors. Sep 13 01:30:27 brute force Sep 13 01:31:00 This has nothing to do with brute force. Sep 13 01:32:13 is it me or is itt overrun by trolls these days? Sep 13 01:33:33 tso, not noticed so many - where in particular? Sep 13 01:33:47 derf, if hes not rejecting bad codes and checking them anyway - its bruteforce Sep 13 01:34:06 heh, i guess i should stop reading/replying to the 200 page monstrosity... Sep 13 01:34:43 lcuk: No, his error correction is incorrectly determining that valid codes have lots and lots of errors, and then failing to reject them as undecodable. Sep 13 01:35:05 ahh Sep 13 01:35:25 Hence it "works". Sep 13 01:35:34 I'm going to have to get back using java :/ Sep 13 01:35:36 But, you know, not really. Sep 13 01:36:47 hrm. so the n810 takes SD-mini? I haven't even seen mini for sale before... it's all sd or micro Sep 13 01:37:04 lots of micros come with an adapter for mini Sep 13 01:37:19 * Chani really wishes it would take sdhc. then I could put a decent amount of space in there Sep 13 01:37:32 it does Sep 13 01:37:36 huh? Sep 13 01:37:50 isn't sdhc the same size as sd? Sep 13 01:40:31 Chani, SDHC is a standard Sep 13 01:40:33 Hello Sep 13 01:40:40 http://europe.nokia.com/mu-41 Sep 13 01:40:44 Chani, it just means it's over 4Gig Sep 13 01:40:57 Chani, has nothing to do with the form factor itself Sep 13 01:41:15 oh. :) Sep 13 01:41:38 do you know what size the micro cards go up to? Sep 13 01:41:49 16gig coming out soon Sep 13 01:41:53 micro sd cards are all the same size :D Sep 13 01:42:08 "keep this safe, its listers brain" Sep 13 01:42:30 What's the coolest app nokia has? Sep 13 01:42:44 liqbase Sep 13 01:43:12 What's that? Sep 13 01:43:26 Chani, http://www.mymemory.co.uk/Micro-SDHC/SanDisk/SanDisk-16GB-Micro-SD-(SDHC)-Card---Class-4-(Excluding-Adaptor) Sep 13 01:43:36 Chani, so it's around 50 quid, should be out in a month's time Sep 13 01:43:38 ooh, 16 Sep 13 01:43:43 nice :) Sep 13 01:43:46 crashanddie, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpZiNO2CRtw Sep 13 01:44:20 user__, its my own software, of course i think its the coolest thing on nokia :D Sep 13 01:44:49 What's it do? Sep 13 01:45:05 cool stuff Sep 13 01:45:21 have a look on youtube :) Sep 13 01:45:44 lcuk, lol... Sep 13 01:45:48 lcuk, I hate red dwarf Sep 13 01:46:15 but.. but... it's red dwarf! :) Sep 13 01:46:22 :D i grew up with that Sep 13 01:46:31 its the best comedy on and off earth Sep 13 01:46:31 Watchinged it now Sep 13 01:46:33 * Chani can play the theme song Sep 13 01:46:57 lcuk, I think that's the difference Sep 13 01:47:08 lcuk, you're a 30-odd Briton Sep 13 01:47:14 I'm a 20-odd frenchman Sep 13 01:47:26 forget the 20 and the frenchman ;) Sep 13 01:47:28 slightly different culture Sep 13 01:48:10 lol... this is just sad Sep 13 01:48:18 :D Sep 13 01:48:23 I was feeling this hard cold thing Sep 13 01:48:25 in my bed Sep 13 01:48:35 I start looking for what it could be Sep 13 01:48:37 everytime i think of memory sticks i think of that clip Sep 13 01:48:47 found a empty bottle of beer Sep 13 01:49:37 Wow! That's cool lcuk! Sep 13 01:49:50 see Sep 13 01:49:58 Wish i had an 800 Sep 13 01:50:34 user__, you got an 770? Sep 13 01:51:19 Lol! Yes the only one in existence? Sep 13 01:51:34 No, I just find there's a lot of 770 users popping up recently Sep 13 01:51:50 lcuk, don't you? Sep 13 01:52:21 dont i what? find beer bottles in bed? Sep 13 01:52:23 Mine was cheaper by a lot Sep 13 01:52:52 user__, which os are you runnin on it? Sep 13 01:54:13 Os 2006 - can't get it to upgrade Sep 13 01:54:47 what do you use it for Sep 13 01:55:17 Window wouldn't find hacker 2007 os Sep 13 01:55:46 window? Sep 13 01:55:55 Just a little bit of everything Sep 13 01:56:02 * lcuk is using too many question marks. time for bed i think Sep 13 01:56:32 lcuk, last fag? Let's smoke a social one Sep 13 01:56:43 ive just put mine out Sep 13 01:57:05 if you roll me one and mail it me Sep 13 01:57:05 Goodnight fellas Sep 13 01:57:10 nite user Sep 13 01:58:06 crashanddie, is this just the best cheezburger ever? http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/09/12/funny-pictures-why-u-get-camera/ Sep 13 01:58:40 haha Sep 13 01:58:51 I like it, but there's one I like even more Sep 13 01:58:54 hang on, lemme fetch it Sep 13 01:59:19 lcuk, http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/view.aspx?ciid=1281909 Sep 13 01:59:20 theres been a few gooduns recently, but everytime i encounter that one i lol Sep 13 01:59:28 you have an account? Sep 13 01:59:51 account? Sep 13 01:59:52 nope Sep 13 02:00:14 lol tis ok i posted before i saw - thought it was from your profile Sep 13 02:01:04 http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/23692/1220904231/reese.jpg Sep 13 02:01:32 lcuk, btw, if my experience for job hunting has learned me something: 1 get a linkedin profile, 2 get your name high on google Sep 13 02:01:55 anyone can get their name high on google :) Sep 13 02:02:06 I mean with important stuff Sep 13 02:02:10 it all depends on what the search terms are Sep 13 02:02:40 you mean your own name linked with decent stuff Sep 13 02:02:49 yeah Sep 13 02:03:21 :) then that is sorted Sep 13 02:03:22 I mean like a small sober professional looking homepage, with links to your greatest work, and snippets of your code Sep 13 02:03:36 lcuk: you can only claim to have the best app for the NITs _once_ you have released something, not before :P Sep 13 02:03:48 its in the garage and is open source Sep 13 02:04:13 showing how you're a great dev, how you're a great documenter, etc Sep 13 02:04:23 "This project has not released any files." Sep 13 02:04:31 gregorovius, look better Sep 13 02:04:37 gregorovius, svn Sep 13 02:05:03 theres no deb but the code is there - there should be a major update in about a week or so Sep 13 02:05:09 fingers crossed Sep 13 02:05:26 s/should/is going to/ Sep 13 02:05:31 i know you're working on it, but I mean release-.deb-maemo-extras Sep 13 02:05:41 gregorovius, ive never used any of this linuxy stuff before this year, so its all new and uphill for me Sep 13 02:06:11 you seem to be making good progress :) Sep 13 02:06:15 gregorovius, trust me, it's worth the wait Sep 13 02:06:33 yeah, i'm waiting to see what the summit brings Sep 13 02:06:33 i would prefer to hire a junior to handle the packaging and documenting and stuff :) Sep 13 02:06:56 hah! the way im feeling right now im not sure ill have stuff done, but as you said ive got the weekend Sep 13 02:06:57 btw, has anyone seen the predictive keyboard method posted in ITT? Sep 13 02:07:27 gregorovius, the one from the t9 guy? Sep 13 02:07:32 yeah Sep 13 02:07:39 it was discussed today and a few prior art things were found so its fair game :) Sep 13 02:07:52 all i need is a dictionary Sep 13 02:07:56 it's buggy Sep 13 02:08:01 but "works for me" Sep 13 02:08:24 I'd really like to try out something like that Sep 13 02:08:43 if it works as advertised, it'd kick the onscreen keyboard's ass thrice Sep 13 02:08:49 If I manage to fine tune it, maybe lcuk will be able to demo my version of it during the Summit :P Sep 13 02:08:50 wheres the actual itt thread? Sep 13 02:09:12 have you tried an implimentation crash/ Sep 13 02:09:16 :D Sep 13 02:10:42 lcuk, I have the vectors working, key detection is a bit dodgy, and word matching is too wide/slow Sep 13 02:11:54 nice Sep 13 02:12:12 lcuk, can take up to 10s to find a 5 letter word Sep 13 02:12:33 and for some reason "considerate" makes it segfault Sep 13 02:12:40 it shouldnt need to do anything like that - it should walk down a tree of words Sep 13 02:13:19 lcuk, I wrote in like... 3 hours Sep 13 02:13:23 with a preinitialized wordtree it should be practically instant Sep 13 02:14:15 are you reading the flattext wordlist file? Sep 13 02:14:25 I'm using regexp Sep 13 02:14:54 that might explain it then Sep 13 02:15:07 yeah I know, but like I said, I need to tune it Sep 13 02:15:15 I just wanted to see if I could get it work "run" Sep 13 02:15:23 have you got a wordlist file handy? Sep 13 02:15:32 think I do, hang on Sep 13 02:15:53 mail it me please - if its not too big ill have a try tomorrow Sep 13 02:16:07 the ones i found were quite volumous and not right for preloading Sep 13 02:16:18 and i didnt wanna mess with sqlite yet Sep 13 02:16:28 how's 1M sound? Sep 13 02:16:43 bigger than the ones i tried.. Sep 13 02:16:45 not to worry Sep 13 02:17:27 actually... 1M in memory isn't that drastic, is it? Sep 13 02:17:34 you just got me thinking :P Sep 13 02:17:41 anyway Sep 13 02:17:44 I'm calling it a night Sep 13 02:17:49 talk to you later bro Sep 13 02:17:56 ditto Sep 13 02:17:56 gnite Sep 13 02:18:02 'nite Sep 13 02:18:05 gnite chan **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 13 02:59:56 2008