**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 21 02:59:57 2008 Sep 21 03:05:25 hmm? Sep 21 04:16:53 dose any one know a good tutorial for porting applications beside the Maemo Diablo Reference Manua Sep 21 04:41:14 anything new on the dsp side? Sep 21 06:14:51 I have not been paying attention, have there been more announcements wrt n900 and maemo 5? Sep 21 06:20:02 * Stskeeps has not really heard anything interesting since friday Sep 21 06:21:17 and friday was minor spec announcments, and maemo 5 announcement? Sep 21 06:22:42 i dont think anything conrete redally got announced, was mainly about user apps and dev and community from the stuff i saw Sep 21 06:23:01 really * Sep 21 06:23:46 * lcuk mightv just missed it by smokin tho Sep 21 06:27:15 hmm how do i gainroot, whats the package name Sep 21 06:27:43 lcuk: I thought they announced base specs for the next tablet revision Sep 21 06:28:06 yer that was before friday tho wasnt it Sep 21 06:28:27 at osim Sep 21 06:28:50 * lcuk is nursing a sore head Sep 21 06:29:02 and increasing his word count Sep 21 06:29:16 lcuk: rootsh? Sep 21 06:29:32 ill look Sep 21 06:30:04 so I downloaded the Android SDK, I'm kind of excited Sep 21 06:31:28 sts excellent thanks, im sat eating breakfast and internet searchin on this device is not simple Sep 21 06:49:16 * lcuk needs irc in liqbase Sep 21 06:50:13 is there new functionality in liqbase? Sep 21 06:50:32 i dunno what you considr new Sep 21 06:50:52 there should be a package in a week or so Sep 21 06:50:56 ooh Sep 21 06:51:01 the sketching has tools Sep 21 06:51:13 newest thing I've got a is a playtest Sep 21 06:51:14 theres a camera module play thing Sep 21 06:51:39 a berlin metro map :D Sep 21 06:51:54 berlin metro map doesn't help me in rural MN :) Sep 21 06:51:55 graffiti now allows reediting Sep 21 06:52:02 oh, that's cool Sep 21 06:52:03 move to berlin Sep 21 06:52:08 you've been busy Sep 21 06:52:12 that'd be hard to do Sep 21 06:52:25 whats hard? Sep 21 06:52:33 moving to berlin Sep 21 06:52:48 now really, build a maemo spaceship Sep 21 06:53:00 I'll get on that :) Sep 21 06:53:06 if you need plans cntact c-base Sep 21 06:53:48 should i have a controvercial 4th cup of coffee for breakfast? Sep 21 06:53:58 yes Sep 21 06:54:06 excellent Sep 21 06:54:11 L) Sep 21 06:54:14 :) ** Sep 21 06:55:21 damn the woman infrnt has broken the machine Sep 21 06:55:29 oh lame Sep 21 06:55:36 very Sep 21 06:56:19 the hotel woman will sortit, the user interface makes it easy for user to crash it Sep 21 06:56:38 microsoft coffee Sep 21 06:56:40 she pressed everybtton multiple times Sep 21 06:56:43 lol Sep 21 06:56:55 haha Sep 21 06:57:48 she got half a cup of hot water out of the opposite spout Sep 21 06:57:59 press button, receive fail Sep 21 06:58:14 i prefer bacon Sep 21 06:58:18 me too Sep 21 06:58:27 liqbase includes bacon Sep 21 06:58:52 slightly offtopic but someone should make a real bacon vending machine Sep 21 06:59:20 the bast bacon thing i know is the bacon alarmclock Sep 21 06:59:33 you wake p to cooked rasher and smell Sep 21 06:59:50 (serious product) Sep 21 07:00:16 * lcuk tries for more coffee Sep 21 07:05:54 lcuk Sep 21 07:06:08 does anyone have a link to jotts stats, yer rst Sep 21 07:06:47 moo qwerty Sep 21 07:07:01 hey RST38h Sep 21 07:07:05 ive not tried doin irc on the move before Sep 21 07:07:15 hi qwerty Sep 21 07:07:20 Didn't realise I was connected lol, ndiswrapper pissing me around Sep 21 07:07:23 lcuk: Just think of how many little pink piglets you have devoured by now! Sep 21 07:07:25 hi lcuk Sep 21 07:07:32 heh Sep 21 07:07:39 lcuk: May their horrified oinking haunt your dreams! =) Sep 21 07:08:04 just think of how many cows you have left voiceless by stealing their mooo Sep 21 07:08:13 moo. Sep 21 07:08:59 * lcuk adds an icon to liqbase on new 810 Sep 21 07:09:51 i was sat on the metro last night wapping memory cardd Sep 21 07:09:56 new n810? Sep 21 07:10:01 ppl gave me funny looks Sep 21 07:10:03 yer Sep 21 07:10:32 ive worn the screen out on old one Sep 21 07:10:38 wow Sep 21 07:10:53 that's what development on the tablet does to it =) Sep 21 07:11:08 yer its responsiveness was going in the area i stoke too much Sep 21 07:11:19 i couldnt use finger Sep 21 07:11:27 this one is much better Sep 21 07:12:03 it still worked with stylus, but was deffo not as sensitive Sep 21 07:12:29 ive just realised how my workcount is so high Sep 21 07:14:53 can someone check scrollback and find jotts irc stats page please Sep 21 07:17:10 i dont have that far back sadly Sep 21 07:17:26 hmm? Sep 21 07:17:40 which reminds me my logs arent on Sep 21 07:17:45 lcuk: http://outpo.st/irc/ Sep 21 07:17:55 nice thx qwerty Sep 21 07:18:26 np Sep 21 07:18:34 (anything to get my Sep 21 07:18:38 line count up) :P Sep 21 07:18:56 lol Sep 21 07:19:07 i was speaking to marius lastnight and pushed him to add live versions of these for povbot Sep 21 07:19:12 or should I say Sep 21 07:19:13 l Sep 21 07:19:13 o Sep 21 07:19:14 l Sep 21 07:19:16 hehe Sep 21 07:19:26 lcuk: that would be cool Sep 21 07:19:34 the scariest part is my wordcount Sep 21 07:19:44 you are a wordy fuck Sep 21 07:19:54 yes it would be, it should be included in karma Sep 21 07:20:12 never use one word where 3 words would be just as good Sep 21 07:20:13 yer but i didnt know it was that much Sep 21 07:20:31 and i still managed to code up liqbase Sep 21 07:20:32 "Is gribouille stupid or just asking too many questions? 53.3% lines contained a question! " lol Sep 21 07:20:55 or should I say never use only one word in a short phrase when you could extend the phrase out to multiple words, maybe even three or more Sep 21 07:21:09 WHAT! Sep 21 07:21:10 "jason__ has quite a potty mouth. 1.7% words were foul language. " Sep 21 07:21:15 That title should have gone to me Sep 21 07:21:19 heh Sep 21 07:21:21 lol Sep 21 07:21:34 battery low, brb gonna switch Sep 21 07:21:47 crap its upstairs Sep 21 07:22:03 i left ireless on lastnight Sep 21 07:22:05 w Sep 21 07:22:22 I swear I get headaches when I leave the wireless on and go to sleep >.< Sep 21 07:22:35 lcuk: that shouldn't drain the power much... Sep 21 07:23:11 it waws not fully charged any way Sep 21 07:23:23 and thats normal from my home experience Sep 21 07:23:58 I get a headache when I drink too much, but I don't let that stop me Sep 21 07:24:36 Hehe, but I have no reason to leave it on though as well Sep 21 07:24:50 well i drunk lastnight and collapsed on bed :) ive had a great few days Sep 21 07:25:42 For educational purposes, how is Germany on their drug laws? Sep 21 07:25:46 if i have charger in i should be able to switch battery without powering down Sep 21 07:25:53 i dunno Sep 21 07:26:10 I'll go there someday and find out :P Sep 21 07:26:31 when your mum lets you Sep 21 07:26:49 don't bring his mum into this Sep 21 07:27:13 * ccooke finally gets around to googling liqbase. Looks wonderful... Sep 21 07:27:18 For now I have to resist the urge of strangling fprobe and libpcap Sep 21 07:28:16 please do Sep 21 07:28:18 and make a video! Sep 21 07:28:34 ccooke you are not the only one to think that Sep 21 07:28:37 hehe Sep 21 07:28:54 lcuk: *grin* Sep 21 07:29:03 lcuk: I'm still waiting for the version that does the washing up Sep 21 07:29:04 i best get packed up im leaving berlin today and im sad to go Sep 21 07:29:19 heh this one has bacon Sep 21 07:29:25 lcuk: by the way, are you from Bradford? Sep 21 07:29:36 no Sep 21 07:29:51 shit ive got so much to pack Sep 21 07:29:51 heh. Your accennt is pretty close :-) Sep 21 07:29:55 i need a maid Sep 21 07:30:14 * qwerty12 is proud to say my Yorkshire accent has dropped dramatically due to living in London Sep 21 07:30:35 proximity to southerners does that Sep 21 07:30:49 btw gentlemen, I found what browserd is doing while hanging Sep 21 07:31:09 hanging tough? Sep 21 07:31:26 gettimeofday(). lots of it. Sep 21 07:31:50 im gonna go, bbl Sep 21 07:32:07 qwerty12: heh. Mine was never very strong, and moving about the South the last ten years has pretty much got buried it Sep 21 07:33:08 RST38h: gah. Sep 21 07:33:29 RST38h: gettimeofday() is the current bane of my existance Sep 21 07:34:14 ccooke: heh, for me, people can tell that I'm not from London but I don't speak with a London accent either so I'm pretty confused :P Sep 21 07:34:59 * qwerty12 waits for https://garage.maemo.org/projects/dsm to open Sep 21 07:36:08 qwerty12: I just confuse people. My mum was Welsh, my Dad from Derbyshire, Both of them lost their accents mostly and I grew up near Bradford. Strange mix, but I'm told it's still a bit Northern :-) Sep 21 07:36:48 lol :) Sep 21 07:38:48 by the way, would anyone (else) here be interested in an entirely offline RSS reader? Sep 21 07:39:24 only if it can download my feeds without needing a connection Sep 21 07:39:31 magicly Sep 21 07:39:36 Proteous: heh. Sep 21 07:40:03 Proteous: mine is server based. The server updates the tablet via rsync. Sep 21 07:40:16 i would, atleast one that doesn't require me to click DEFAULT connection all the time Sep 21 07:40:48 ccooke: definitely would but it would have to be able to handle non-standard rss feeds as well as hebrew :) Sep 21 07:41:04 ccooke, i had problems with that due to power saving in wifi conn Sep 21 07:41:22 liri: my wife is from Israel, and she also has an n810 and RSS habit :-) Sep 21 07:41:27 ccooke: I can say that I tried both the default rss reader and liferea and none of them can handle hebrew or the rss feeds I give it (because they are probably not 100% compliant with the standards) Sep 21 07:41:34 ccooke: lol, small world eh? :) Sep 21 07:41:40 *grin* Sep 21 07:41:52 ccooke: well then, all the more reasons to have a proper rss reade Sep 21 07:41:54 *reader Sep 21 07:42:00 so even if tablet is associated it is not always connectable from outside Sep 21 07:42:40 what I'm actually doing is fetching the rss on a server, parsing the links, then downloading everhthing necessary to view the page Sep 21 07:43:45 every link is rewritten to go via a CGI script, which checks for a cached copy of the page. if it doesn't find a cache, it redirects to the real website Sep 21 07:43:54 ccooke: so you'd require a server for that? Sep 21 07:44:17 so, you rsync the cache onto the tablet, which runs a tiny httpd Sep 21 07:44:22 yep Sep 21 07:44:44 the cache generator builds index pages for each day Sep 21 07:46:11 thttpd takes upjust under 2 meg of RAM, which is usually swapped out. Sep 21 07:46:34 I like that idea very much, I get annoyed when I see the headline and a bit of text underneath but no internet connection for me to access the site. Sep 21 07:46:38 the CGI is in shell script, for maximum speed without having anything resident Sep 21 07:46:57 uhmm, I don't know, sound a bit of an overkill Sep 21 07:46:59 qwerty12: that's what always irritates me about rss Sep 21 07:47:21 Yeah :) Sep 21 07:47:48 liri: the basic thing is, you view the rss links exactly as they're supposed to be viewed - on the original site Sep 21 07:47:54 I'm already running an httpd for gstmpjg so I'm not bothered on that front Sep 21 07:48:39 lirc: as long as you have swap, you'll never see any performance hit with using the server - and even without it'd be tiny Sep 21 07:48:42 ccooke: do you also call it in a tight loop? =) Sep 21 07:49:46 you call it from the standard web browser... I mean, it *is* the best tool for html on the device... Sep 21 07:50:45 umm Sep 21 07:51:28 so you would need to process these links using a program on a desktop linux or something, and then transfer the web pages to the tablet? Sep 21 07:51:37 yes. Sep 21 07:52:35 what I need to do is write a pull-style transfer instead of push. Sep 21 07:52:57 say, have the server make tarballs of the day-to-day changes Sep 21 07:53:08 how about this - let's make it a web service rather than a tool? Sep 21 07:53:45 liri: explain...? Sep 21 07:54:07 aren't we a bit over in offline google reader then? Sep 21 07:54:39 StsN800: I've yet to see that working on a nokia Sep 21 07:55:07 spent two days trawling every offline reader I could find Sep 21 07:55:26 ccooke: I mean let's not make this software oriented but rather web (2.0?) oriented. let's put up a domain (tabletrss.com) where users can register and create their own offline contents from websites/rss's and it would create for them a daily/weekly tar file which is then configured on the tablet to auto-sync with Sep 21 07:55:32 and none of them actually do what this does anyway, as far as I can tell Sep 21 07:55:41 i've seen tools for building rss feed+referred pages atleast Sep 21 07:56:07 liri: apoh, that. Yes, that was where I'm aiming asking in here. Sep 21 07:56:17 the problem is downloading on a schedule from tablets Sep 21 07:56:33 liri: that's also why I need to get rid of rsync as the update mechanism. Sep 21 07:57:07 StsN800: cron plus a shell script will do it :-) Sep 21 07:57:13 ccooke: I mean, I think a service for these kind of things is more "friendly" than having a person run some scripts on a linux server then worry about rsyncing it.. ahh, that doesn't sound like something I'm going to do daily/weekly just to read news on the tablet Sep 21 07:57:34 ccooke: the rsync is not the problem, the work here would be to create such website Sep 21 07:57:43 not really Sep 21 07:58:01 StsN800: I don't think scheduling is an issue, this can be an on-demand retrieval thing Sep 21 07:58:26 I'm not a frontend coder, but I've built a good few servers and sites... and I have reliable web servers Sep 21 07:58:38 ccooke: well I'm no guru at all these web technologies so... to make something professional I'm guessing would take some effort Sep 21 07:58:53 ccooke: well then, I'm all up for it, shall we get going then? :) Sep 21 07:59:07 liri: *grin* Sep 21 08:00:18 ccooke: this idea actually relates very much to my wish to have an update-able recipe manager for the kitchen :) Sep 21 08:00:35 okay, so. People would be interested in something like this. Good. Sep 21 08:00:51 liri: that makes sense, yes Sep 21 08:01:40 ccooke: well I don't know about "People"... we're just 3 guys here discussing this. I say, summarize this talk and put it on ITT and let's see what others have to say. Let's see if everyone think it's a good idea to have "subscriptions" to rss feeds which are synced for offline viewing Sep 21 08:01:55 ccooke: well it makes alot of sense because then the wife can't say "I don't have any idea what to cook!" hehe Sep 21 08:02:07 I can probably get something that's ugly but functional up and working in the next day or so, actually. Probably manual sync initially, though Sep 21 08:02:49 by 'people', I really mean 'more than me'. Sep 21 08:03:05 heh Sep 21 08:03:11 I'm bored and looking for something to code Sep 21 08:03:28 anything will do, so long as it's not wasted effort Sep 21 08:04:15 and, since I'm a sysadmin, most of what I code is plumbing. Not something you can get people too interested in :-) Sep 21 08:04:35 I hear ya pal Sep 21 08:05:30 Right. That's a minor challenge set for me - a functional website before I go to the pub this evening :-) Sep 21 08:06:05 * qwerty12 has to stifle a laugh seeing the latest spam on itt Sep 21 08:07:17 ccooke: if you have the time, put it on ITT, it's interesting to see if other users would have more ideas Sep 21 08:09:33 * qwerty12 installed bash-completion on my tablet yesterday. I swear I'm loving not using busybox's ash by the minute Sep 21 08:10:03 liri: can do. Sep 21 08:10:36 don't ghink I've ever posted there yet. Sep 21 08:11:18 well there's always a first time Sep 21 08:11:31 * Italodance [Nick: Italodance] [Server: wolfe.freenode.net:6667] [Server UpTime: 1day 3hrs 32mins 26secs] [mIRC UpTime: 1day 3hrs 34mins 12secs] [] [CPU: 1-Intel Pentium 4, 2395MHz, 0KB (0% Load) ] Sep 21 08:11:31 * Italodance [WinXP UpTime: 1day 3hrs 37mins 38secs] [Idle: 1day 3hrs 28mins 25secs] [Time&Date: 11:40:56 × 21/09/2008] [DCC Gets: 0/0] [DCC Sends: 0/0] [Memory Usage: 306/512MB (59.77%) ] Sep 21 08:12:21 ccooke: thinking about it more, it could probably be extended to more than just "rss", just like the recipe content... so I think we're onto something here Sep 21 08:13:02 hmm. what were you thinking of? Sep 21 08:14:52 ccooke: well the recipe thing is one idea but I think there is more content than just that that people would want. I can't put my finger on it just yet but I'm sure others would enlighten us Sep 21 08:17:17 Ah, that's better. Switched from my Nokia to the laptop with a (more) full-sized keyboard! Sep 21 08:17:47 ccooke: Have an N800? :p Sep 21 08:18:07 n810. Sep 21 08:18:21 I don't buy devices without a hardware keyboard. Sep 21 08:18:39 Ah, I'm irc'ing with the vkb, I've got pretty used to it Sep 21 08:18:47 yeah, the keyboard is not ALL that comfortable on the n810. I replied an email on it a few days ago... it hurt my fingers :) Sep 21 08:19:18 fingers crossed, that nokia release a better keyboard in the N900 (i'm not a fan of the N810 keyboard) Sep 21 08:19:34 Though I can't deny my only "experience" was in the N810 emulator Sep 21 08:21:00 I've been using the n810 to take notes in work meetings since December Sep 21 08:21:11 I've ended up surprisingly fast on it. Sep 21 08:21:22 qwerty: I have already asked Cthulhu to make Nokia built a better directional pad into N9x0 ! =) Sep 21 08:21:33 RST38h: That would be *good* Sep 21 08:21:46 a good Dpad and some video accell and we are set Sep 21 08:21:54 indeed Sep 21 08:21:54 qwerty: I mean, The Great Green One has heard me about E70 replacement so this request has really good chances too =) Sep 21 08:22:06 I'm really hoping they don't remove the keyboard :-/ Sep 21 08:22:26 me tooo Sep 21 08:22:33 they will remove keyboard, make device of gray plastic and round the corners mylo-style! Sep 21 08:22:34 That's the only thing that would prevent me from buying the new tablet Sep 21 08:22:40 RST38h: Nooooo! Sep 21 08:22:46 RST38h: That's great :) Sep 21 08:23:42 qwerty: There weren't any Applet nutballs around to make a proper sacrifice though Sep 21 08:23:48 s/Applet/Apple/ Sep 21 08:23:48 RST38h meant: qwerty: There weren't any Apple nutballs around to make a proper sacrifice though Sep 21 08:23:50 But yeah, if the keyboard is gone, then I'm not buying the N900. The rest seems *really* good, I hope they don't let it down with no keyboard. Sep 21 08:23:52 lol Sep 21 08:24:38 even though the n810 keyboard isn't amazing, it's way better then the OSK of my old 770 Sep 21 08:24:50 if the gps takes more than 30 seconds to get a lock, ANYWHERE, then I'm not buying the N800 either :) Sep 21 08:25:18 N800 has a gps?!? :P Sep 21 08:25:22 no Sep 21 08:25:28 * liri is talking about N810 Sep 21 08:25:36 ccooke, cron is unreliable due to it not using retu alarm wakeup Sep 21 08:26:16 not to be confused with crom, who is unreliable because he is a god from the movie conan the barbaian Sep 21 08:26:49 StsN800: Right. So we use the alarm, then. Sep 21 08:27:23 ccooke, just warning about pitfalls:) Sep 21 08:27:31 StsN800: yep. Thanks :-) Sep 21 08:29:06 considering the keyboard on the 810, I'm amazed how much I jse it Sep 21 08:29:36 although I do still make some mistakes *grin* Sep 21 08:33:58 * RST38h does not use n810 kbd much Sep 21 08:34:13 still mostly using on-screen keyboard Sep 21 08:34:53 i would just love a keyboard where the q is actually a little to the left :P Sep 21 08:34:59 as it's closer to how i normally write Sep 21 08:40:57 yes, that would be good Sep 21 08:41:17 hell, what I *want* is a PDA with a keyboard to match the Psion 5. But I won't *get* it :-) Sep 21 08:42:21 i would be happy with that shapewriter or wtf it was called really Sep 21 08:42:51 for on screen keyboard Sep 21 08:43:12 someone should really make an input method that acts like that (yes, i'm aware of patent problems) Sep 21 08:43:27 but then again that would be a software patent :P Sep 21 08:57:54 * Stslap wonders why this train sounds like one of the wheels is cracked Sep 21 09:09:17 i could have sworn there are previous systems that work like shapewiter, and therefor it cant be patented, or something like that... Sep 21 09:15:38 I wish there would've been a suite of google apps synchronization (contacts, calendar, notebooks, docs, etc) Sep 21 09:20:19 t_s_o: i've seen it before too somewhere though, but that might have been IBM too Sep 21 09:20:30 but it's definately not a T9 idea Sep 21 09:22:12 http://www.jkontherun.com/2008/09/swype-demos-at.html <- seems there is more then one implementation of the same idea floating around. hard to tell what came first tho Sep 21 09:22:30 shapewriter was first afaik Sep 21 09:23:31 under the name of shark by the looks of it? Sep 21 09:23:36 yeah Sep 21 09:24:51 no wonder i hate sortware patents... Sep 21 09:26:46 http://www.henricodolfing.com/2008/09/gesture-based-data-entry-war.html Sep 21 09:26:47 there's probably some way around it Sep 21 09:26:57 apparently all three have patents Sep 21 09:27:04 neat Sep 21 09:27:22 yeah the USPTO is crazy clever Sep 21 09:27:23 may we live in interesting times... Sep 21 09:27:24 and it just harms innovation really Sep 21 09:27:54 i'd rather see the tablet use get increased, giving strength to hw producers Sep 21 09:27:54 if I were patient enough I'd read all their claims just to point out how similar they are Sep 21 09:28:05 and cheaper prices Sep 21 09:28:05 than a bloody patent war Sep 21 09:28:39 oh, there's an easy way to avoid seeing a patent war Sep 21 09:28:43 stick your head in the sand Sep 21 09:29:06 the way i see its (and i have a similar issue with copyright) is that the timeframe for a patent is set based on the development time of a physical system. software on the other hand, can come into existence and vanish again in just a year, but a software patent will outlast that at least x10... Sep 21 09:29:10 i think i could personally in .dk avoid the US patent obviously, but distributing to US people .debs would be problematic Sep 21 09:32:20 i would actually pay for shapewriter as a HIM Sep 21 09:32:37 (it exists for android, linux, mac already) Sep 21 09:45:06 http://pokristensson.com/pubs/KristenssonZhaiUIST2004.pdf <- kinda odd it doesn't say patent pending or anything Sep 21 09:45:11 so i guess it would be okay implementing from Sep 21 10:04:38 Morning Sep 21 10:04:53 hey folks Sep 21 10:05:21 Stslap: just because it's not mentioned it does not mean there isn't a bunch of us patents.. Sep 21 10:06:04 Stslap: http://tinyurl.com/3khr95 Sep 21 10:07:58 Q1QAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Sep 21 10:08:10 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Sep 21 10:08:14 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Sep 21 10:08:16 Stslap: http://tinyurl.com/3pnb3g Sep 21 10:08:18 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Sep 21 10:08:22 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Sep 21 10:08:26 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Sep 21 10:08:30 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Sep 21 10:08:31 wooo cat attack? Sep 21 10:08:34 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Sep 21 10:08:38 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Sep 21 10:08:42 Sep 21 10:08:46 Sep 21 10:08:51 Sep 21 10:08:56 Sep 21 10:09:01 Sep 21 10:09:06 Sep 21 10:09:14 Arr, this is one of those channels where I don't have channel operator right.s Sep 21 10:09:15 Sep 21 10:09:17 qQQQzAZ: move your cat :) Sep 21 10:09:20 Sep 21 10:09:25 Sep 21 10:09:30 Sep 21 10:15:49 jott: i dont recall ever seeing a cat make such uniform inputs... Sep 21 10:16:10 he just needed to lie down on the keyboard Sep 21 10:16:16 hi Sep 21 10:16:30 yacoob: maybe so, but i would have expected more keys to be pressed then... Sep 21 10:16:31 hello Sep 21 10:16:37 hi jott Sep 21 10:16:45 jott the keymap trick worked Sep 21 10:16:46 t_s_o: na, cats like to type "z" Sep 21 10:16:50 for nxagent Sep 21 10:16:51 ah nice. Sep 21 10:16:51 funny; this cat only needs to lie on the keyboard while I'm using it Sep 21 10:16:58 lolcatz. Sep 21 10:17:22 ok, now i want a cheeseburger... Sep 21 10:19:30 ermmm Sep 21 10:19:31 the patent lawyer already must have taken stslap :D Sep 21 10:20:10 lpotter: so was it a cat, child or what? :) Sep 21 10:20:15 http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/09/17/funny-pictures-srry-but/ <- nokia bug fixer at work? Sep 21 10:20:18 solve the mystery Sep 21 10:24:07 cat.. and kid :) sorry Sep 21 10:24:39 heh, must have been one hell of a sight Sep 21 10:46:01 jott: nah, train disconnect :> Sep 21 10:46:45 'lo aladds_ Sep 21 10:46:49 hey Sep 21 10:46:54 ah crap Sep 21 10:47:23 aladds: could you ls -lR /lib/dsp for me at some point? (from os2006) Sep 21 10:47:32 yeah 'course Sep 21 10:47:47 need to make osso-dsp-modules-su-18 so :P Sep 21 10:47:58 ah Sep 21 10:48:04 fair enough Sep 21 10:48:50 if you for some reason know how to squeeze out /usr/bin/Xomap from a OS2008 fiasco image you're also welcome (so we can make xserver :P) Sep 21 10:49:08 also i made udev-nokernelcheck for 770 purposes Sep 21 10:49:18 (it adds something to udev.conf that disables kernel check) Sep 21 10:49:58 http://pastebin.com/d222d59a8 Sep 21 10:50:09 cool Sep 21 10:50:30 hmm Sep 21 10:50:46 i don't know how easy it would be to get the file from OS2008 Sep 21 10:50:55 i can give it to you from OS2006 Sep 21 10:51:03 i'd prefer not to reflash though Sep 21 10:51:20 yeah.. i prefer from OS2008 and i dont want you to reflash either :P Sep 21 10:51:23 then i'd have to reload stuff and redo the bootloader Sep 21 10:51:45 what's the bin file? Sep 21 10:51:52 is it just a jffs2 image? Sep 21 10:51:58 sec Sep 21 10:52:04 cos i've got it here Sep 21 10:53:36 try apt-get install 0xffff from deblet, 0xFFFF -e /root/imgdump Sep 21 10:53:42 (mkdir -p /root/imgdump first) Sep 21 10:54:15 let me reboot Sep 21 10:54:18 k Sep 21 10:54:20 oh Sep 21 10:54:21 nm Sep 21 10:54:25 that's from OS2006 obviously. Sep 21 10:54:29 oh Sep 21 10:54:30 so don't do that :P Sep 21 10:54:35 ok :P Sep 21 10:54:59 Stskeeps: why not compile the xserver instead of extracting it from the image?! Sep 21 10:55:10 jott: i can't find exact sources for OS2008HE Sep 21 10:55:22 aren't they the same? Sep 21 10:55:22 but yes, that's a possibility Sep 21 10:55:31 no, there's a fix for xorg that isn't in patches Sep 21 10:55:33 afaik Sep 21 10:55:39 the binary is easier to get anyhow :P Sep 21 10:55:44 aladds: flasher-3.0 has an --unpack option Sep 21 10:56:01 hmm Sep 21 10:56:28 Stskeeps: hmm only for 770 or what? Sep 21 10:56:32 jott: yeah Sep 21 10:58:21 there's no flasher-3.0 for osx Sep 21 10:58:23 :( Sep 21 10:58:54 only up to 2.0 Sep 21 10:59:08 ah well Sep 21 10:59:15 * aladds downloads an ubuntu iso :P Sep 21 10:59:27 aladds: it doesnt have -u? Sep 21 11:00:10 ah btw, dsme will come in 1-2 weeks Sep 21 11:00:17 doesn't look like it Sep 21 11:00:27 talked to one of the devs yesterday Sep 21 11:00:29 jott: sounds good Sep 21 11:01:11 aladds: can you grab the sources thing for me from OS2008HE maybe? Sep 21 11:01:14 i don't have a MAC handy :P Sep 21 11:01:24 then i can maybe compile it on my own Sep 21 11:06:15 Stskeeps: would it make more sense for me to run debian lenny on the desktop? Sep 21 11:08:07 aladds: mm, maybe - but it isn't needed Sep 21 11:08:58 well, it'll be virtualised, so :P Sep 21 11:09:14 and i just got REALLY odd deja-vu Sep 21 11:09:17 which is odd Sep 21 11:09:23 :P Sep 21 11:09:29 hehe Sep 21 11:10:25 although i didn't see the flapjack... Sep 21 11:26:12 cats and bacon don't mix Sep 21 11:26:42 i had bacon for breakfast.. mm. Sep 21 11:35:03 jott: found xorg sources :P Sep 21 11:51:40 Speccy-Maemo 1.6.3 is now in Extras Sep 21 12:03:34 liri: You still around? Sep 21 12:14:37 any suggestions on what to use for serial line terminal in linux? Sep 21 12:15:11 hi, didn't find telepathy-idle anymore, is it ended? Sep 21 12:15:39 RST38h minicom or cutecom Sep 21 12:15:45 RST38h: i've used screen before Sep 21 12:15:56 cutecom is nicer, but you can run vi in sane way Sep 21 12:16:00 can not Sep 21 12:16:01 thanks Sep 21 12:16:26 and no scripting support if I remeber correctly Sep 21 12:19:27 aladds: apt-get update; apt-get install xserver-xomap-770 Sep 21 12:19:52 Stskeeps: in deblet, yes? Sep 21 12:20:03 yes Sep 21 12:20:15 * aladds boots it up Sep 21 12:21:22 updating Sep 21 12:24:15 and then try to /usr/bin/Xomap after doing fb_update_mode manual Sep 21 12:26:56 can i get irc and msn support to telepathy or is it osso-chat-ui chavo these dayz? Sep 21 12:41:38 ok it's installed Sep 21 12:41:53 does /usr/bin/Xomap run? Sep 21 12:42:05 Fatal server error: Sep 21 12:42:05 LinuxInit: Server must be suid root Sep 21 12:42:15 evidently now Sep 21 12:42:21 *not Sep 21 12:42:44 that's fine, chown root:root /usr/bin/Xomap Sep 21 12:42:49 chmod a+s /usr/bin/Xomap Sep 21 12:43:01 i did a mistake in packaging which im submitting to packages atm Sep 21 12:44:12 it's not too happy Sep 21 12:44:13 http://pastebin.com/d4220ae0c Sep 21 12:44:55 screen went black, then gave me a single underscore caret in the top left Sep 21 12:46:49 that's fine Sep 21 12:47:19 it does sit there at that point though Sep 21 12:47:26 doesn't quit Sep 21 12:47:31 yeah, it's fine Sep 21 12:47:34 sec Sep 21 12:57:29 can you apt-get install equivs? Sep 21 12:59:30 (this will pull in a bit of stuff :/) Sep 21 13:01:01 well, or don't.. sec Sep 21 13:02:01 apt-get update; apt-get install nit-env-basic hal tablet-x x-session Sep 21 13:02:48 verify it doesn't try to download xserver-xomap (xserver-xomap-770 is okay) Sep 21 13:05:52 shall try Sep 21 13:05:56 updating Sep 21 13:07:44 hmm...there's new svn updates to matchbox-keyboard. maybe one of them has fixes... Sep 21 13:08:54 Benny1967: sufficient answer to the initfs stuff? Sep 21 13:09:36 omg, didnt return to itt since i posted it ;) Sep 21 13:09:42 hehe Sep 21 13:11:01 so in fact the current way is better? Sep 21 13:11:18 well it depends on how they're going to do it. Sep 21 13:11:31 if they allow people to make a grub like bootmenu - it's fantastic Sep 21 13:11:38 no drawbacks with initfs/rootfs? Sep 21 13:11:53 there's some, obviously, but i don't mind having a "rescue mode" Sep 21 13:11:58 since rootfs's tend to get corrupted Sep 21 13:12:09 Stskeeps: i don't see xserver-xomap in there Sep 21 13:12:22 go? Sep 21 13:12:57 yep Sep 21 13:13:13 you might have to apt-get upgrade xserver-xomap-770 afterwards Sep 21 13:13:18 for good measure Sep 21 13:14:12 righto Sep 21 13:14:22 but to make it short: "no more initfs" is not the big thing everyone has been waiting for, right? Sep 21 13:14:39 Benny1967: if they don't make a fucked up solution where it can only boot from internal flash, yes Sep 21 13:14:56 thx ;) Sep 21 13:15:06 it might make other OS'es on tablet easier, but it may also just make it more difficult Sep 21 13:15:19 there was a bugzilla thing on this.. Sep 21 13:15:27 configuring console-data Sep 21 13:15:32 don't touch keymap? Sep 21 13:16:39 yeah Sep 21 13:29:56 doing xomap-zz0 upgrade Sep 21 13:30:01 7770 Sep 21 13:30:03 770 Sep 21 13:30:05 :P Sep 21 13:31:17 hehe, Nokia Zz0, the optimized 770 ;) Sep 21 13:31:47 Zz0 with new optimized sleep mode? Sep 21 13:31:55 :P Sep 21 13:32:11 with any sleep mode would be nice... Sep 21 13:32:22 put the cover on it? boom! Sep 21 13:32:32 not asleep though Sep 21 13:32:33 it has a cover sensor? :P Sep 21 13:32:38 ...as Jobs would say Sep 21 13:32:40 the 770? Sep 21 13:32:47 yeah it had cool stuff Sep 21 13:32:51 had a better d-pad too Sep 21 13:32:57 it even knows if the battery cover is open Sep 21 13:32:59 :P Sep 21 13:33:07 it's got a lottle reed switch Sep 21 13:33:09 little Sep 21 13:33:57 the n800 can tell if its battery cover is open and even the other sd card slot, but it never came with a plastic shel/case/thing Sep 21 13:34:42 dont you guys talk about the 770. mine died only a few weeks ago :( Sep 21 13:35:15 sadness :( Sep 21 13:35:18 :( Sep 21 13:35:19 WSOD? Sep 21 13:35:46 apart from being a bit slower it was so much cooler than the N8x0 Sep 21 13:36:02 Stskeeps: all installed Sep 21 13:36:04 wsod. how do you know? Sep 21 13:36:13 aladds: reboot and see if xterm comes up :) Sep 21 13:36:31 * aladds types reboot Sep 21 13:36:33 Benny1967, most die that way if they're not physically abused Sep 21 13:36:49 it's like natural death for 770s, like with humans Sep 21 13:36:50 :P Sep 21 13:38:04 mhm... i wonder if they'll ever sell a *mobile* device like the 770 again :( Sep 21 13:38:19 probably not Sep 21 13:38:31 they'll stick with physical keyboards I bet Sep 21 13:38:40 * aladds is looking at console messages, which seem static Sep 21 13:38:41 I hope so... Sep 21 13:38:46 and I don't see a cover or true sleep mode coming back Sep 21 13:38:54 * aladds wonders if he should apt-get remove gpm Sep 21 13:39:05 A hard cover would be nice. Sep 21 13:39:16 i can live with a keyboard but not without a cover Sep 21 13:39:25 true sleep mode... I actually think that what the n8x0 do is much better Sep 21 13:39:50 Benny1967: I bought a third-party hard shell for my n810 Sep 21 13:39:53 no cover = not mobile Sep 21 13:39:55 ccooke, it is for a lot of people a lot of the time Sep 21 13:40:14 Benny1967, cell phone seem to get by ok Sep 21 13:40:32 johnx: it's certainly *impressive*. It's one place where the Nokias are a length ahead of any competitor Sep 21 13:40:42 me too, my N800 now lives within an ugly leather case.... Sep 21 13:40:57 "true sleep mode"? Sep 21 13:41:12 Stskeeps, uhm, suspend to RAM Sep 21 13:41:23 ... but it has no way of knowing if the cover is closed so that it can sleep. Sep 21 13:41:26 Benny1967: ah. the aluminium cover for the n810 is actually really nice. It leaves the external buttons accessible Sep 21 13:41:29 * aladds noices the screen has gone black Sep 21 13:41:33 notices Sep 21 13:41:40 any xterm popping up yet? :P Sep 21 13:42:01 johnx: i'm planning to play a little with n800-s2ram at some point and deblet Sep 21 13:42:04 not yet Sep 21 13:42:09 Benny1967: on the n810, there's autolock - lock the screen whenever it goes dark. Now *that* should be installed as a standard option! Sep 21 13:42:10 with the n810 you can do clever things about locking/sleeping when the light sensor detects inactivity and complete darkness Sep 21 13:42:13 i just have black atm Sep 21 13:42:24 aladds: could you give me a ps aux? Sep 21 13:42:39 already done Sep 21 13:42:52 http://pastebin.com/d433b3c0b Sep 21 13:42:54 and a top Sep 21 13:43:24 eh, is that ps aux complete? Sep 21 13:43:31 mm Sep 21 13:43:37 i dont trust all these intelligent modes... the 770s magnetic switch was it. ;) Sep 21 13:43:51 there seem to be missing udev and all that jazz Sep 21 13:44:00 http://pastebin.com/d6efc5290 Sep 21 13:44:01 oops Sep 21 13:44:02 quick question, for mount.cifs to work, does cifs.ko need to be insmodded? Sep 21 13:44:02 :P Sep 21 13:44:21 okay, so no X running Sep 21 13:44:23 Benny1967: heh. The thing is, going to sleep is actually against what the device is billed as, though Sep 21 13:44:26 /etc/init.d/x-session start Sep 21 13:44:44 Benny1967: it's supposed to be always on - so IM stays connected, it can update stuff... Sep 21 13:44:52 Fatal server error: Sep 21 13:44:53 omapCardInit: couldn't open dispc gfx plane Sep 21 13:45:10 waiting for X server to begin accepting connections Sep 21 13:45:10 giving up. Sep 21 13:45:10 xinit: Connection reset by peer (errno 104): unable to connect to X server Sep 21 13:45:11 xinit: No such process (errno 3): Server error. Sep 21 13:45:12 Benny1967: closing the cover would put it in softpoweroff which can still be used on the n8x0 but with nowhere near the easiness Sep 21 13:45:25 aladds: think i've been here before.. Sep 21 13:45:32 oh? Sep 21 13:45:37 ;) i know what nokia wants it to do. i just prefer my devices to do what I want them to. Sep 21 13:45:53 else i'd buy apple Sep 21 13:46:09 heh Sep 21 13:46:23 * aladds buys apple anyway, most of what they do is what i want Sep 21 13:46:39 and for what they don't, i'm learning objective-c :P Sep 21 13:46:52 * johnx keeps getting torn between mac os x and linux, but is on a linux kick right now Sep 21 13:47:01 aladds: apt-get remove x-session, apt-get install gdm lxde tablet-gdm-autologin xsession-gtkstylus matchbox-keyboard Sep 21 13:47:06 and dpkg --purge x-session Sep 21 13:47:21 apple really frightens me to death Sep 21 13:47:39 Benny1967, "our way or the highway"? Sep 21 13:47:52 or something else? the zealots? the koolaid? Sep 21 13:48:30 I *like* apple... but they have, as yet, failed to make a single product I would ever buy Sep 21 13:48:45 not even the 12" powerbook? Sep 21 13:48:56 it was so cute Sep 21 13:48:59 :P Sep 21 13:49:14 Actually, I tell a lie - I've thought about buying an ipod nano, but I already had a solution for music I was happy with Sep 21 13:49:22 aladds: running out of SD space yet? :P Sep 21 13:49:23 aladds: I bought one for my wife. She still uses it. Sep 21 13:49:27 and yes, it's cute! Sep 21 13:49:28 my next laptop is either macbook or a lenovo x200 Sep 21 13:49:44 Stskeeps: nah, only 31% used Sep 21 13:50:22 But it takes me several hours (including searches and downloads) to get OSX to a point where I don't *mind* using it. Wheras I can configure an Ubuntu box the way I like it in about 20 minutes. Sep 21 13:50:26 My next laptop I want one of those ultra-light 1kg ones. Sep 21 13:50:45 * aladds has a black macbook Sep 21 13:50:49 it's awsome Sep 21 13:51:02 and i can run other OSs inside it anyway Sep 21 13:51:12 Sun's xVM is free :-) Sep 21 13:51:57 aladds: yes, but if you're buying a macbook in order to rip away OSX, then that *has* to be a negative. For a start, every *other* os uses a second mouse button... Sep 21 13:51:58 Stskeeps: now it wants to use 199MB of space :P Sep 21 13:52:01 in my case, the macbook is a pretty big size/price/weight premium for the privilege of running osx Sep 21 13:52:09 aladds: aye Sep 21 13:52:09 :P Sep 21 13:52:36 ccooke: i use osx all the time, it's the best OS I've ever used Sep 21 13:52:50 Linux comes close Sep 21 13:52:53 The closest I've come to buying an Apple machine was the last time I bought a laptop, two years ago. But at the time, their 17" macbook pros were... well, pretty pathetic, actually Sep 21 13:53:08 aladds: It's very nice, but it doesn't think the way I think. Sep 21 13:53:08 the older MacBook Pros were Sep 21 13:53:33 ccooke: I came from Mac OS 9 land, so OSX was a very welcome change Sep 21 13:53:48 aladds: yeah. I had a nice conversation with an Apple guy on the plane home from Tokyo a couple of years back, asking for higher resolution screens and better graphics :-) Sep 21 13:54:01 hehe ... "but it doesn't think the way I think." Sep 21 13:54:10 that's it Sep 21 13:54:12 Benny1967: you understand me, yes? Sep 21 13:54:30 ccooke, I know what you mean. :) Sep 21 13:54:31 2 friends of mine run osx Sep 21 13:54:40 many of mine do Sep 21 13:54:43 i cant use these computers Sep 21 13:54:45 Benny1967: It's based on some fundamental assumptions of how you will work. Those assumptions are *better* than the ones Windows uses, for instance Sep 21 13:55:05 but I have been using unix - in text mode, mainly - for more than 15 years. Sep 21 13:55:07 if linux doesn't work the way you want it to, you tell it to do something different. but with osx it's really counterproductive to try and make it do something differently Sep 21 13:55:14 I do *not* think that way :-) Sep 21 13:55:28 ccooke, exactly Sep 21 13:55:30 each time i want to resize a window i go mad Sep 21 13:55:50 I agree with the stupid zoom button Sep 21 13:55:58 for some people osx works really well. for a lot of things I needed to do at the time it worked really well. but I always came back to linux in the end Sep 21 13:55:59 some applications work, some don't Sep 21 13:56:13 or: it took me ages to find out where minimized applications go Sep 21 13:56:32 aladds, actually in the zoom vs maximize debate I fall on the osx side :D Sep 21 13:56:39 really? Sep 21 13:56:48 I never maximize apps anyways Sep 21 13:56:53 fair enough Sep 21 13:57:04 with laptop screens it's better when you do Sep 21 13:57:06 it's just like it's from another planet Sep 21 13:57:07 :P Sep 21 13:57:22 it's a waste of screen real estate. so what I really want an app to do is "resize until all the contents fit" Sep 21 13:57:32 saves me doing that by hand since that's what I want 90% of the time Sep 21 13:57:35 what annoys me about the zoom buttons though is how it's not consistant Sep 21 13:57:35 Is there really no way to mark a bug as a duplicate on garage? Sep 21 13:57:37 johnx: isn't it possible to tell openbox to take a window with a class/name and make it appear like a taskbar? Sep 21 13:57:45 but I can't deal with click to focus on a laptop/desktop Sep 21 13:57:46 johnx: because that'd give us h-i-m in openbox Sep 21 13:58:01 (you know, docking) Sep 21 13:58:15 Stskeeps, I'll see if the h-i-m window is gives us the right info Sep 21 13:58:31 johnx: ugh, I hate having to click on things to focus. And I can't work without multiple desktops. Sep 21 13:58:31 it might have to resize it and stuff Sep 21 13:58:49 resize is doable I think Sep 21 13:58:53 Stskeeps, what's the package again? Sep 21 13:58:59 johnx: for h-i-m? Sep 21 13:59:04 yeah Sep 21 13:59:08 ccooke: osx has multiple desktops now Sep 21 13:59:21 http://packages.linuxniche.net/deblet/pool/main/h/ Sep 21 13:59:44 johnx: did you see qole's hillarious h-i-m screenshot in easy debian? Sep 21 13:59:54 aladds: yes. That's one application of the dozen or so I wouldn't have to find in order to not get *too* badly frustrated ;-) Sep 21 13:59:59 Stskeeps, not yet Sep 21 14:00:04 http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole2/2853096131/ Sep 21 14:00:10 aladds: maybe in another decade or so, I'll buy an OSX machine... Sep 21 14:00:14 ccooke, it's integrated now Sep 21 14:00:39 I am loving Time Machine though Sep 21 14:00:46 backup you can forget about :P Sep 21 14:00:50 yeah, that's a nice piece of software Sep 21 14:00:54 ah, flickr.... rrainisto? r u here or anyone who knows him? Sep 21 14:01:11 i only have to remember to plug my big drive into it every now and again Sep 21 14:01:15 aladds, a nice wrapper around lvm2+rdiff snapshots essentially Sep 21 14:01:39 yeah, but it has a nice interface :P Sep 21 14:01:46 everything in OSX has polish Sep 21 14:01:50 and i like that Sep 21 14:01:55 it's all finished Sep 21 14:01:57 johnx: instructions at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221728&postcount=19 Sep 21 14:02:00 it all works Sep 21 14:02:20 aladds, well it's all finished...and if you find anything that's not finished you have to wait for someone else to fix it or do without Sep 21 14:02:26 aladds: still downloading? :P Sep 21 14:02:37 Stskeeps: as you said that it finished downloading Sep 21 14:02:42 :P Sep 21 14:02:48 hehe Sep 21 14:02:56 aladds, but it doesn't work the way i want it to. Sep 21 14:03:08 aladds: Yeah, it's a really nice system. Sep 21 14:03:28 granted, perhaps not how you want it to Sep 21 14:03:33 brb phone Sep 21 14:03:41 and being pretty isn't enough for a long time relationship Sep 21 14:03:43 I loved osx about 80% of the time, tolerated it 10% and was in a screaming rage at it the other 10% Sep 21 14:03:45 back perhaps not Sep 21 14:04:06 johnx: I'm around 50/20/30, unfortunately. Sep 21 14:04:09 i wonder what the % is for maemo :P Sep 21 14:04:24 i'm a 60% 20% 20% or something Sep 21 14:04:36 my linux experience isn't amazing i have to say Sep 21 14:04:40 Stskeeps: maemo is... not polished. But it's actually *functional*, which makes up for a lot. Sep 21 14:04:45 i used to run ubuntu on a vaio Sep 21 14:04:54 the hardware was so poor... Sep 21 14:04:58 but i'm probably applecally challenged or so.... i couldn't use an iphone either. Sep 21 14:05:14 i would *never* buy sony computers Sep 21 14:05:27 (it was free) Sep 21 14:05:27 just couldn't type, couldn't surf, couldn't do anything Sep 21 14:05:55 aladds: nice newton pics btw on flickr :P Sep 21 14:05:56 oh the iPhone is awsome Sep 21 14:06:07 oh i forgot about those Sep 21 14:06:11 yeah Sep 21 14:06:17 i also has a 130 Sep 21 14:06:21 *have Sep 21 14:06:23 aladds, not if you want to type a mail Sep 21 14:06:42 heh. iphone is, again, a really great device I have no temptation to buy Sep 21 14:06:49 the on screen keyboard on the iPhone is the best of any device so far Sep 21 14:07:05 for the things I want to do, it can't compare at all to the n810 Sep 21 14:07:15 aladds, you should try the n800's onscreen thumb keyboard Sep 21 14:07:26 aladds, in terms of what? i cannot type on that thing Sep 21 14:07:27 johnx: yeah, that's surprisingly good Sep 21 14:07:30 i've used it on OS2008HE Sep 21 14:07:40 it's ok, but you can't see anything else Sep 21 14:08:11 in landscape mode i could, very slowly, but else... no way Sep 21 14:08:11 aladds, but you can type faster with it... Sep 21 14:08:31 i've only used it in the shop though Sep 21 14:08:31 aladds: the iphone one is fine as long as you have small fingers. Unfortunately, while I *do* have small fingers... they're small for a 6'8" guy with huge bones :-) Sep 21 14:08:34 but yeah, the iphone is another great product as long as it does everything you want already Sep 21 14:08:41 and i was comparing it to my current phone, which sucks Sep 21 14:09:10 johnx: agreed Sep 21 14:09:29 johnx, it's the other way round: as long as you want what it allows Sep 21 14:09:38 as a mobile phone, i think it's the best you can buy Sep 21 14:09:54 comparing it to SE or Nokia S60 Sep 21 14:10:04 aladds: please qualify that... it's the best *you* can buy :-) Sep 21 14:10:09 Benny1967, either way, don't get it with the thought of bending it to your will. it's quite the other way around Sep 21 14:10:25 The iphone is actually pretty shit in several categories... Sep 21 14:10:31 aladds, except that as a phone it's really bad and drops calls. Sep 21 14:10:36 ccooke: it's too expesive though :( Sep 21 14:10:49 Benny1967: that depends on service mainly Sep 21 14:10:52 aladds: that's one of them. Another is if you're after a camera phone. Sep 21 14:11:14 aladds, except that it's worse than other phones on the same service all over the world Sep 21 14:11:24 though that has been improved, IIRC Sep 21 14:11:49 also, you might want a phone that you can type on. with real keys. Sep 21 14:11:50 i think for apple's second phone it's fucking incredible Sep 21 14:11:51 johnx: that's bad, but it *will* get sorted out. It's poor QA, though. Sep 21 14:12:20 aladds: see, there's the problem - you're giving them the benefit of the doubt automatically. Sep 21 14:12:35 Benny1967: but are there any phones with real keys which have *good* keyboards? :P Sep 21 14:12:57 HTC Sep 21 14:13:00 Palms have teensey keys Sep 21 14:13:05 aladds: wheras... Apple are a vast, multibillion dollar enterprise. They have more than enough money to get things very well tested; that they didn't is *a mistake* that they should have known better for. Sep 21 14:13:07 ccooke, people do so because it's "pretty". nothing else counts. Sep 21 14:13:34 It's not a mistake that's too *huge*, mind - they'll improve on it and I do believe they'll learn. However, it's still a big error! Sep 21 14:13:54 aladds, all it matters is how fast you can type. blackberry and treo users will be able to type faster than iphone users Sep 21 14:14:07 aladds, any normal phone with numeric keys and t9 is better for typing (for me) Sep 21 14:14:08 (um. I mean: It's not something to flay them alive for, but it *is* something to point to and say "I expected better") Sep 21 14:14:22 * johnx is disappointed with the trend of reduced tactile feedback in devices :/ Sep 21 14:14:33 i agree with that actually Sep 21 14:14:51 johnx: the n810 is better than I expected... especially with the key click sounds on. Sep 21 14:14:52 someone needs to develop some sort of haptic feedback which doesn't involve a vibrator Sep 21 14:14:52 Yeah, but an IBM M-Series keyboard on an N810 might look like shit.. Sep 21 14:15:14 but I'd love something like the Zaurus had (shame that wouldn't slide so well) Sep 21 14:15:19 the n810 is actually pleasently the other direction from my complaint Sep 21 14:15:23 moo all Sep 21 14:15:30 m00 RST38h Sep 21 14:15:34 johnx: there was any tactile feedback in devices before? Sep 21 14:15:55 Or do you mean non-flat buttons by this? Sep 21 14:16:03 RST38h, volume dials instead of unmoving buttons, dpads instead of touchpads Sep 21 14:16:15 oh that Sep 21 14:16:21 things that you could feel instead of having to look at Sep 21 14:16:25 I'd love to know when Access/Palm are releasing something with Access Linux on it Sep 21 14:16:27 I can tell you a few horror stories about this stuff ;) Sep 21 14:16:37 if that'll ever happen Sep 21 14:16:38 i agree with johnx Sep 21 14:16:47 Like BBK (known as Oppo in US) making a PMP without any real buttons Sep 21 14:17:15 johnx: how stable is debian midori btw? Sep 21 14:17:26 It was a nice looking PMP, slim metal case buttons at the edge Sep 21 14:17:30 yah, and can people hit the "skip track" button on their ipod (or equivalent) while it's in their pocket? Sep 21 14:17:45 Unfortunately, poor thing was so sensitive that it could not figure out what you were pressing Sep 21 14:17:47 Stskeeps, pretty stable. Sep 21 14:17:48 (if at all) Sep 21 14:17:54 johnx: they have a remote now Sep 21 14:18:07 but you're right Sep 21 14:18:09 mhm, lunchtime.... Sep 21 14:18:10 Stskeeps, playing with new matcgbox-keyboard right now. seeing if it can be made to behave Sep 21 14:18:14 johnx: sounds good Sep 21 14:18:22 aladds: installation still going on? Sep 21 14:18:30 Stskeeps: gdm at the moment Sep 21 14:18:33 unpacking Sep 21 14:18:34 :P Sep 21 14:18:35 see you later Sep 21 14:20:24 johnx: afaik, iPods are a bit different Sep 21 14:20:56 RST38h, when I said equivalent I meant any mp3 player these days Sep 21 14:20:59 johnx: they rely on triggering multiple sensors in a certain order Sep 21 14:21:20 most fail the the "change tracks without looking at it test" Sep 21 14:21:45 johnx: well, it is RIGHT dpad direction on my E70 :) Sep 21 14:22:01 And no, I have no idea why people buy those players at the first place Sep 21 14:22:45 heh...same reason they buy heavy laptops with poor battery life: failure to critically think about their own use case Sep 21 14:22:47 my Sony K750i uses the volume buttons to change tracks Sep 21 14:22:54 if you hold them down Sep 21 14:22:59 but the media player is awful Sep 21 14:23:11 can't browse by artist Sep 21 14:23:13 I buy heavy laptops with poor battery life to do tech demos at conferences. Sep 21 14:23:31 johnx: But bigger is better! =) Sep 21 14:23:37 derf, you don't count :P Sep 21 14:23:48 derf: Heh. I buy huge laptops because I can't use small ones :-) Sep 21 14:23:59 derf: Real people use IBM RS6000 with a 2048x2048 indutrial monitor for tech demos Sep 21 14:24:14 derf: (the monitor is 80+kg) Sep 21 14:24:25 aladds: flash with w800 firmware. i used to have a k750, i used to patch and mod it and loved it. joystick broke and i mod w810 now Sep 21 14:24:26 RST38h: I don't want to have to ship it out there. I want to carry it on a plane. Sep 21 14:24:49 derf: what a terrorist! Sep 21 14:24:53 qwerty12_N800: I've looked into it before, my phone has brown firmware Sep 21 14:24:57 :( Sep 21 14:25:01 Hey, I have a TSA-approved laptop bag! Sep 21 14:25:17 my joystick's pretty much broken too... Sep 21 14:25:19 * RST38h wraps his laptop in clothing Sep 21 14:25:30 * aladds needs a new phone Sep 21 14:25:37 It is too small for a separate bag - most bags are heavier than the laptop itself Sep 21 14:25:39 aladds: you can flash a red erom or buy a £15 service cable and use cracked setool Sep 21 14:25:53 it's not worth it Sep 21 14:25:58 this phone's no fun Sep 21 14:26:04 my J70 was way cooler Sep 21 14:26:13 derf: the problem with big laptops on planes is you often can't recharge them - this beast uses a 130W charger, for instance... Sep 21 14:26:23 aladds: google elfpack Sep 21 14:26:25 I had NiMar's firmware & loads of custom apps Sep 21 14:26:25 ccooke: I don't care about actually using it on the plane. Sep 21 14:26:38 derf: just carrying it? Okay, that makes sense. Sep 21 14:26:42 I usually don't have internet on the plane, so what's the point? Sep 21 14:26:51 ccooke: recharging the laptop is the last thing I think about when on a plane Sep 21 14:27:10 And if I do, I've got an N810. Sep 21 14:27:18 qwerty12_N800: looks cool Sep 21 14:27:37 but if I really need to use it on a plane, a new R100 with two batteries runs for about 7-8 hours Sep 21 14:27:52 RST38h: Not bad... Sep 21 14:28:09 Mine runs for 40 minutes though - both batteries are close to dead Sep 21 14:28:36 aladds: yeah, i have it on my w810. but if you have a brown phone, it must be cid36. if you end up getting a new one;flash a red erom using sefp :) Sep 21 14:28:41 Some day they will make batteries that last longer than a year. Sep 21 14:28:49 qwerty12_N800: CID49 :( Sep 21 14:29:17 it's Ex-Vodafone Sep 21 14:29:19 :P Sep 21 14:29:32 derf: and run on the souls of dead hamsters Sep 21 14:29:32 (they gave me an unlock code after a year) Sep 21 14:29:45 I'm okay with that. They're not using them anymore. Sep 21 14:30:05 whom? the hamsters? and what did "they" use them for before? Sep 21 14:30:06 Stskeeps: i notice it's installing iceweasel, do you really think it'll run? :P Sep 21 14:30:13 aladds: hey, why not Sep 21 14:30:13 :P Sep 21 14:30:21 lol true Sep 21 14:30:26 aladds: think it's just a silly dependancy in lxde.. Sep 21 14:30:31 ah Sep 21 14:30:33 midori is prolly a better choice Sep 21 14:30:39 aladds: ouch, a brown cid49. dunno if the mod to use sefp works well with erom flashing. heh, i bought a service cable with my 810, got unlock codes for me and my sisters k750 there and then :p Sep 21 14:30:58 heh Sep 21 14:31:07 yes, midori is a much better choice, especially with 64MB RAM Sep 21 14:32:28 is midori better than microb? :P Sep 21 14:32:35 hmmm Sep 21 14:32:38 that's a loaded question Sep 21 14:32:50 it's better at google maps for sure Sep 21 14:32:53 Sts: no. Sep 21 14:33:03 it's faster in a lot of cases and slower in a couple Sep 21 14:33:11 but it's not as finger friendly Sep 21 14:33:15 Less stable Sep 21 14:33:25 RST38h, debatable Sep 21 14:33:26 what about dillo? Sep 21 14:33:34 might be crap at rendering many sites Sep 21 14:33:35 dillo is kind of useless a lot of the time Sep 21 14:33:40 but it's really fast Sep 21 14:33:48 johnx: well, it crashes =) Sep 21 14:33:54 RST38h, well so does microb Sep 21 14:34:16 RST38h, so it depends on which one *doesn't* crash on the sites I use Sep 21 14:34:19 johnx: Much less often. BTW, I have traced that browserd hangup bug down Sep 21 14:34:28 RST38h, gettimeofday() ? Sep 21 14:34:32 johnx: Yep Sep 21 14:34:43 eh. :P Sep 21 14:34:45 It does look like this may come from flash applets (i.e. youtube player) Sep 21 14:35:31 But, shit, the "programmer" who decided to time his code by calling gettimeofday() in a tight loop has to be fired at the spot Sep 21 14:35:55 oh, here's why midori wins for me: being able to set the font size without doing seven kinds of arcane ... stuff Sep 21 14:36:44 Ah Sep 21 14:37:01 * GeneralAntilles doesn't get the obsession with the 770's hard cover. Sep 21 14:37:20 Never had a 770 but hard voer sounds useful Sep 21 14:37:26 GeneralAntilles, different use cases Sep 21 14:37:27 810 is so easily scratchable... Sep 21 14:37:41 ...if you keep sandpaper in your pockets Sep 21 14:37:50 ^ Sep 21 14:37:57 I used my N800 exactly the same as I used my 770. Sep 21 14:37:59 * aladds keeps sandpaper in his pockets, doesn't everyone? :P Sep 21 14:38:01 sp3000: miraculously bread crumbs do the job Sep 21 14:38:02 even small rocks and shards of metal are a problem :( Sep 21 14:38:03 i.e., it goes with me practically everywhere. Sep 21 14:38:16 RST38h, O_o what kind of *bread* do you eat? Sep 21 14:38:17 You know what's in better shape after a little over a year of use? Sep 21 14:38:20 The N800. Sep 21 14:38:22 RST38h: mmm, breadcrumbs are great for clogging up keyboards Sep 21 14:38:24 Why? Screen protector. Sep 21 14:38:32 Not the stupid hardcover, a $12 screen protector. Sep 21 14:38:37 I seem to have avoided getting bread in my pockets though ;) Sep 21 14:38:37 looks like the metal casing of N810 is covered with something Sep 21 14:38:43 this stuff is really easy to scratch Sep 21 14:39:06 ...if you make your bread from stone dust instead of flour... Sep 21 14:39:29 Somebody needs to beat up the people making me move articles they decided to stupidly name in camelCase. Sep 21 14:39:32 using millstone - ur doin it wrong Sep 21 14:39:52 * Stskeeps loves his screen protector as well Sep 21 14:39:59 (not the nokia one) Sep 21 14:45:13 hey even a touch with the stylus scratches 810 front panel Sep 21 14:45:22 Stskeeps: setting up :) Sep 21 14:46:08 aladds: woo :P Sep 21 14:46:13 lol Sep 21 14:46:18 sooooo sloooow :P Sep 21 14:46:20 aladds: have you had it keel over yet like it did with our initial attempt? Sep 21 14:46:27 with killing apt-get with signal 11 Sep 21 14:46:27 not yet Sep 21 14:46:30 k Sep 21 14:46:39 but there's still time :p Sep 21 14:47:12 * aladds wonders why he sees this message: Updating OpenOffice.org's dictionary list... done. Sep 21 14:47:14 :S Sep 21 14:47:32 hehe.. stupid package dependancies Sep 21 14:47:35 i hope it hasn't installed oo.org Sep 21 14:47:36 :P Sep 21 14:51:24 Oh hi, I'm a bot :) Sep 21 14:51:39 * aladds has cold feet Sep 21 14:51:58 i think i'm going to get some socks Sep 21 14:58:22 it's almost done Sep 21 15:02:22 Stskeeps: done, reboot? Sep 21 15:04:35 rebooted Sep 21 15:04:40 WE HAVE X :D Sep 21 15:04:41 aladds: did dpkg --purge x-session? Sep 21 15:04:47 i did Sep 21 15:04:49 k Sep 21 15:04:55 is it booting? :P Sep 21 15:05:02 it is Sep 21 15:05:11 :D Sep 21 15:05:15 picture time methinks Sep 21 15:05:16 feel free to show photo :P Sep 21 15:05:19 hehe Sep 21 15:05:48 woo! Sep 21 15:05:50 does touchscreen work? Sep 21 15:05:58 yes Sep 21 15:06:00 :D Sep 21 15:06:00 770 owners, welcome to the ... uhm...present! Sep 21 15:06:23 * Stskeeps celebrates with a beer Sep 21 15:07:06 congrats, aladds and Stskeeps :D Sep 21 15:07:28 hah, it's even picture number 700 on my camera Sep 21 15:09:33 http://flickr.com/photos/10211714@N03/2875802734/ Sep 21 15:09:53 aladds: how is performance? Sep 21 15:09:56 good Sep 21 15:09:58 hawt! Sep 21 15:10:06 but ideweasel isn't doing much Sep 21 15:10:12 ahaha Sep 21 15:10:15 (tap and hold on taskbar and remove cpu measurement) Sep 21 15:10:16 iceweasel Sep 21 15:10:30 that's useful actually Sep 21 15:10:42 yeah, but takes cpu like a bitch :P Sep 21 15:10:42 actually, watch cpu applet to see if iceweasel is actually launching Sep 21 15:10:45 ah Sep 21 15:10:48 it's telling me that iceweasel is using up all the cpu and doing nothing Sep 21 15:10:57 try apt-get install midori (johnx?) Sep 21 15:10:59 it'll come up in a couple minutes Sep 21 15:11:08 yes, install midori Sep 21 15:11:12 do you have some swap turned on? Sep 21 15:11:35 ah, it's only in sid Sep 21 15:12:16 i have swap yes Sep 21 15:12:19 i think so anyway Sep 21 15:12:20 :P Sep 21 15:12:47 ok i do now Sep 21 15:12:48 :P Sep 21 15:12:56 it ran without swap? :P Sep 21 15:13:01 yeah... Sep 21 15:13:03 iceweasel might actually run eventually in that case :) Sep 21 15:13:03 neat Sep 21 15:13:04 :P Sep 21 15:13:09 :) Sep 21 15:13:26 aladds: obligatory Deblet on 770 post and Show your screenshots i think ;) Sep 21 15:13:40 haha of course Sep 21 15:14:10 aladds: if we are getting really fancy.. replicate my "booting deblet" video, apt-get install deblet-omap-fb-splash, dpkg --remove omap-fb-console Sep 21 15:14:14 and --purge omap-fb-console Sep 21 15:14:29 /whois Stskeeps Sep 21 15:14:36 treestone: insane person Sep 21 15:14:36 :P Sep 21 15:14:45 :) Sep 21 15:14:48 E: Couldn't find package midori Sep 21 15:14:48 :( Sep 21 15:14:57 aladds: yeah, it's in sid Sep 21 15:15:00 oh Sep 21 15:15:11 Interesting stuff there Sep 21 15:15:12 so you need to edit your sources.list Sep 21 15:15:38 treestone: no tablet left behind, now with 770 :> Sep 21 15:16:00 This deblet story, you're running a Debian alternative installation? Sep 21 15:16:27 treestone: http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet Sep 21 15:16:53 custom installer that gets you vanilla debian plus a couple tablet specific packages to add functionality Sep 21 15:17:07 Stskeeps, I'm beating matchbox-keyboard into place, as we speak :) Sep 21 15:17:13 Nice. I used to hang out mostly in #debian earlier. Debian person. Sep 21 15:17:22 treestone: still a lot to go regarding power consumption and stripdown, but it works Sep 21 15:17:30 Stskeeps: so apt-get install deblet-omap-fb-splash first? Sep 21 15:17:33 aladds: yes Sep 21 15:17:36 * treestone is reading up Sep 21 15:17:43 it probably removes omap-fb-console by itself, but needs purge Sep 21 15:17:46 then do remove && purge? Sep 21 15:22:27 heh, xchat? ;P Sep 21 15:22:38 ircii Sep 21 15:22:40 ah Sep 21 15:22:47 which i'm still trying to figure out :P Sep 21 15:23:05 irssi is prolly more useful Sep 21 15:23:06 :P Sep 21 15:23:25 yes Sep 21 15:23:26 :P Sep 21 15:23:27 lol Sep 21 15:23:40 anyway Sep 21 15:23:44 splashscreen thing Sep 21 15:24:29 is there any way to make the keyboard smaller? Sep 21 15:24:34 matchbox? Sep 21 15:24:38 we're working on it :P Sep 21 15:24:39 mm Sep 21 15:24:42 or johnx may know better layouts Sep 21 15:24:45 cool cool Sep 21 15:24:53 I know a *bigger* layout that I prefer :) Sep 21 15:25:02 hah Sep 21 15:25:18 but it takes up half the screen :P Sep 21 15:25:28 uhm, yes Sep 21 15:25:37 i do like how i can drag it out of the way though Sep 21 15:26:03 aladds: we've done work to make hildon input method work .. but so far there's problems with beating it into submission with other wms Sep 21 15:26:31 ah Sep 21 15:27:48 how's the install coming? Sep 21 15:28:10 purging Sep 21 15:28:24 purged Sep 21 15:28:27 reboot time Sep 21 15:28:29 reboot yeah Sep 21 15:28:46 (tell me if it shows a splash screen :P) Sep 21 15:29:00 it does Sep 21 15:29:04 woo Sep 21 15:29:37 video time ;) if it finishes booting up :> Sep 21 15:30:51 i just filmed that Sep 21 15:31:00 hehe, okay Sep 21 15:31:02 first boot with splash :) Sep 21 15:32:11 it's going to take some time to make the packages do this automatically, probably need to make some more support packages for 770 Sep 21 15:32:18 and the whole installer thing Sep 21 15:32:58 I'll give h-i-m a swing right now since I'm having *no luck* making matchbox-keyboard report it's real location Sep 21 15:33:46 ah Sep 21 15:34:01 what happened to xkbd? Sep 21 15:34:08 i know it's been abandoned Sep 21 15:34:16 but it was pretty good when i used it Sep 21 15:34:35 also, has anyone tried xstroke on deblet? Sep 21 15:34:45 you can be the first :) Sep 21 15:34:50 :D Sep 21 15:35:07 welcome to the frontier :) Sep 21 15:35:13 woo! Sep 21 15:36:56 oo Sep 21 15:37:03 can we use ipk packages from handhelds.org? Sep 21 15:37:20 because they're already compiled for arm Sep 21 15:37:32 * aladds is thinking perhaps alien could convert then to debs? Sep 21 15:37:35 probably not Sep 21 15:37:53 hmm...it depends on how optimized their are I guess Sep 21 15:38:14 isn't familiar debian based anyway? Sep 21 15:38:26 so is maemo Sep 21 15:38:30 exactly Sep 21 15:38:31 both started from debian a long time ago Sep 21 15:38:49 so ipk probably isn't much different from deb Sep 21 15:38:54 I mean a monkey is basically a human, so it makes sense to have a gorilla for a CEO Sep 21 15:38:59 :P Sep 21 15:39:10 that's been done Sep 21 15:39:24 how else would any company ship vista? Sep 21 15:39:26 but the way things are linked, what CPU they're optimized for, what the packages are named, can all be problems Sep 21 15:39:51 because they know they can ship anything and people will still buy it? Sep 21 15:40:16 hmm perhaps Sep 21 15:40:28 people are trying not to though Sep 21 15:40:28 so try it Sep 21 15:40:32 and tell us how it works :P Sep 21 15:40:38 lol ok Sep 21 15:40:48 or i could just compile it Sep 21 15:40:56 the sources aren't very big Sep 21 15:41:02 that would be best I think :) Sep 21 15:41:47 you could also just grab the binary from the ipk and run it without installing it Sep 21 15:44:00 mmm isn't therer a flasher for mac os X intel? Sep 21 15:44:11 BugBlue: nope Sep 21 15:44:23 BugBlue: there is a GUI flasher though Sep 21 15:44:33 called 770Flasher.app Sep 21 15:44:47 uses a ppc binary though Sep 21 15:45:05 ah yeah oke Sep 21 15:45:12 can I use it to flash the N810? Sep 21 15:45:25 dunno Sep 21 15:45:32 it uses the flasher-2.0 Sep 21 15:46:07 dillo is crazy fast Sep 21 15:46:16 ~flashing Sep 21 15:46:17 rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 21 15:46:23 even though its rendering is AWFUL :P Sep 21 15:48:15 and it wont stay logged into ITT :( Sep 21 15:49:43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRRF-fBrGEM Sep 21 15:49:58 in the video it shuts down, then boots up Sep 21 15:50:05 to X11 :D Sep 21 15:54:31 w00! h-i-m sets its WM_CLASS Sep 21 15:54:34 1 point for Nokia Sep 21 15:55:05 easiest way to take a screenshot? Sep 21 15:55:19 xwd -root -out foo.xwd Sep 21 15:55:22 cat /dev/fb0 > flle gives what i assume is a raw image? Sep 21 15:55:27 oh cool Sep 21 15:56:02 didn't like that Sep 21 15:56:10 does it have to be run within x11? Sep 21 15:56:23 install imagemagick instead Sep 21 15:56:26 and import -window root Sep 21 15:56:32 and import -window root filename.png or something Sep 21 15:56:37 ok Sep 21 15:56:45 aladds: I use fbgrab when taking screenshots using framebuffer (worked for me to take a screenshot of maemo booting) Sep 21 15:56:57 oh ok Sep 21 15:56:58 yeah xwd is for inside x11 Sep 21 15:58:06 Stskeeps: what about sound on 770 in deblet, does it use aic23 codec and alsa? Sep 21 16:03:08 I'm just interested in using sound and DSP without proprietary binary blobs, never tried deblet myself Sep 21 16:03:43 yeah there isn't any sound atm Sep 21 16:04:03 if you want a decent fast browser without javascript try netsurf Sep 21 16:04:05 Stskeeps, did you already try to use openbox's window matching against h-i-m? Sep 21 16:04:43 netsurf! Sep 21 16:04:51 * aladds has used netsurf on RISC OS :D Sep 21 16:04:59 see #netsurf also Sep 21 16:05:27 aladds: me too Sep 21 16:05:36 johnx: nop Sep 21 16:05:45 * aladds has a Risc PC 700 w/StrongARM Sep 21 16:05:52 ssvb: it's not possible to use without properitary binary blobs.. i think, unless someone implements them Sep 21 16:06:04 we work around it with building .deb packages that are availiable in a local repo Sep 21 16:06:15 local as in on tablet Sep 21 16:06:21 we don't distribute them Sep 21 16:06:48 just give the source packages to build them on tablet and use as part of your ownership of your device Sep 21 16:07:23 it's not the best but i don't want to sacrifice usability over arguing legally over something that's basically a copy on the device just like a clone-to-SD Sep 21 16:08:06 Stskeeps: I'm experimenting with enabling aic23 alsa driver in the kernel at the moment, I suspect that it might work quite fine, at least I get some sounds from it Sep 21 16:08:44 ssvb: i'm always open for kernel module deb packages Sep 21 16:09:05 ssvb, that would be awesome for many reasons Sep 21 16:09:06 and contributions Sep 21 16:09:20 does deblet on N8x0 use nokia alsa dsp plugin, or it uses alsa driver in the kernel? Sep 21 16:09:33 alsa dsp plugin Sep 21 16:14:49 johnx: ok, I see, I'm mostly continuing what was discussed here: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2006-June/022231.html Sep 21 16:15:30 ssvb: goal is ofcourse a completely OSS system, but i'd rather go from properitary pieces to OSS stuff, than start with OSS stuff and never reach level of properitary :P Sep 21 16:15:41 it is possible to output sound from ARM side, unfortunately this does not seem to work fine with DSP codecs also trying to output sounds Sep 21 16:16:08 so this requires to scrap all the nokia codecs and start developing new ones Sep 21 16:16:33 mmm.... debian on a tablet... :) Sep 21 16:16:45 Robot101, terrifying, isn't it? Sep 21 16:17:05 did the ubuntu hildon debs make it into debian? Sep 21 16:17:28 there's a semi-connected project for debian Sep 21 16:17:40 but yes, the base hildon libs are in Sep 21 16:17:45 the status area in recent hildons is a real notification area, so network mangler and battery monitor stuff should just work there too Sep 21 16:18:22 lol @ network mangler. so true... Sep 21 16:18:53 yup, I used hildon-desktop in debian a while ago...but without most of the plugins it's pretty bare Sep 21 16:19:38 oh nice, hildon-desktop is there, and dates and tasks versions Sep 21 16:19:53 aladds: any luck with video? Sep 21 16:19:54 the package for modest is waiting to be built Sep 21 16:25:44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRRF-fBrGEM Sep 21 16:27:02 woo Sep 21 16:28:01 what would i do with an Imakefile? Sep 21 16:28:10 rather than a normal makefile Sep 21 16:28:16 no clue, ipkg specific thing? Sep 21 16:28:19 xmkmf -a Sep 21 16:28:21 IIRC Sep 21 16:28:47 uh, more packages to install Sep 21 16:28:48 * Fatal falls off chair. Sep 21 16:29:08 Imakefiles, haven't seen those in ages :) Sep 21 16:29:35 :P Sep 21 16:29:35 me neither Sep 21 16:29:35 that took a real raid on long term memory Sep 21 16:29:56 aladds: think you should post a post in Nokia 770 forum to attract some people :) Sep 21 16:30:47 aladds: btw did you do dpkg-reconfigure dash? Sep 21 16:31:12 i did yeah Sep 21 16:31:16 k Sep 21 16:36:29 * aladds notices that the backlight turns off when he closes the lid ) Sep 21 16:36:34 :-) Sep 21 16:36:37 yeah, we use dsme so Sep 21 16:38:27 guys Sep 21 16:38:31 i need u Sep 21 16:39:16 where can i find application catalogue in xterm? Sep 21 16:39:22 Stskeeps, using devilspie now. h-i-m shows up the right size and place now Sep 21 16:39:28 apt-cache search Sep 21 16:39:31 infact where is it>? Sep 21 16:39:32 johnx: screenshot! Sep 21 16:39:35 apt-get install Sep 21 16:39:41 as root Sep 21 16:43:07 hi johnx Sep 21 16:43:16 please can help me?? Sep 21 16:43:35 Italodance, what are you trying to do? Sep 21 16:43:51 wait i will show u a screenshot Sep 21 16:45:24 Stskeeps, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/today-screenie.png Sep 21 16:45:47 Stskeeps, note that I had to resize the window manually :/ Sep 21 16:48:48 johnx: a good step in the right direction atleast Sep 21 16:48:51 johnx: that looks really neat Sep 21 16:48:52 what WM is it? Sep 21 16:48:57 openbox Sep 21 16:49:01 good Sep 21 16:49:03 yeah Sep 21 16:49:14 http://i36.tinypic.com/2sbn2oy.png Sep 21 16:49:23 johnx how can i delete it? Sep 21 16:49:30 is that hildon-icons? Sep 21 16:49:34 it can't delete Sep 21 16:49:35 (i dont have those icons) Sep 21 16:50:20 Stskeeps, yup. Sep 21 16:50:21 Italodance, hmmm Sep 21 16:50:45 is possible other way without application catalogue? Sep 21 16:51:01 johnx: define resize manually though? Sep 21 16:51:09 Italodance, do you know how to edit text files in xterm? Sep 21 16:51:26 Stskeeps, I needed to resize leafpad so it doesn't overlap (underlap?) the keyboard Sep 21 16:51:30 johnx no? Sep 21 16:51:48 Italodance, then there is no way for you to fix it. Just ignore it. Sep 21 16:52:09 johnx ok explain please Sep 21 16:52:19 johnx: ah, maybe a on top thing would be useful Sep 21 16:52:27 but yeah Sep 21 16:52:37 there's a WORKAREA setting you can set i think Sep 21 16:53:01 Italodance, if it's not a problem, don't worry about it Sep 21 16:53:45 johnx i think my maemo repo and extra devel repo don't work fot that! Sep 21 16:54:07 Italodance, alright then. Do you have root access? Sep 21 16:54:21 root yes Sep 21 16:54:29 type root in xterm and? Sep 21 16:54:47 yes Sep 21 16:55:20 do you have nano installed? Sep 21 16:55:38 no wait Sep 21 16:55:47 where can i find it? Sep 21 16:56:03 one sec Sep 21 16:57:14 on the bottom of this page: http://nitapps.com/ Sep 21 16:57:56 yes 1 sec Sep 21 16:59:58 Stskeeps, hmm?, WORKAREA setting? Sep 21 17:00:15 why isn't all this stuff (nitapps) in extras anyway? Sep 21 17:00:27 johnx: there's a way to tell the WM to minimize the work area of active windows, for example like taskbars do it Sep 21 17:00:59 http://www.sweb.cz/tripie/utils/wmctrl/ maybe useful Sep 21 17:01:28 right, the WM shouldn't let windows with a certain type set (like dock) be overlapped Sep 21 17:02:03 we can always patch h-i-m if needed Sep 21 17:02:12 johnx yes ready Sep 21 17:03:03 Italodance, nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Sep 21 17:04:47 johnx tnx 1000000 Sep 21 17:04:59 Italodance, sure. no problem :) Sep 21 17:05:05 tell me if it works :D Sep 21 17:10:07 johnx i found it and want to delete it but the page can't save why? Sep 21 17:10:16 i used emelfm2 Sep 21 17:11:04 you need to be root to save over that file Sep 21 17:11:29 use root in xterm? Sep 21 17:12:10 yeah, like I told you Sep 21 17:12:14 root in xterm Sep 21 17:12:24 and? Sep 21 17:12:24 debian seems to boot from sd-card, first try didn't work with initfs but flasher did set root device right Sep 21 17:12:29 then nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Sep 21 17:12:35 then edit the file Sep 21 17:12:42 then save with ctrl-x Sep 21 17:13:13 xstroke is complaning about missing files in /usr/include/X11 Sep 21 17:13:23 but i installed xserver-xorg-dev Sep 21 17:13:37 well Sep 21 17:13:46 the xstrike Imakefile Sep 21 17:13:46 aladds, maybe the files are someplace else? Sep 21 17:13:49 hmm Sep 21 17:14:10 use dpkg -S filename to see if they've moved Sep 21 17:14:11 build from source http://davesource.com/Projects/xstroke/? Sep 21 17:14:12 xstroke is pretty old Sep 21 17:14:33 i'm using the source from handhelds.org Sep 21 17:14:40 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=69476 Sep 21 17:14:44 has .deb package Sep 21 17:14:44 it's a bit newer and support full-screen writing Sep 21 17:14:52 (tar.bz2) Sep 21 17:14:53 ok Sep 21 17:15:07 but the deb will be i386 Sep 21 17:15:26 nah, it's the source package Sep 21 17:15:30 actually i have 0.5.12 Sep 21 17:15:33 oh Sep 21 17:15:35 a source deb? Sep 21 17:15:43 johnx i typed this line in root: nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list but said error opening terminal: xterm. Sep 21 17:15:52 arh, requires login to dl attachments Sep 21 17:15:54 silly ubuntu Sep 21 17:15:58 :( Sep 21 17:16:25 packages.debian.org for searching for include files Sep 21 17:16:32 (bottom form) Sep 21 17:16:47 i'll make an ubuntu account Sep 21 17:16:51 won't take long Sep 21 17:17:49 Italodance, sorry. I don't know :( Sep 21 17:18:43 hmm Sep 21 17:18:48 the package name is xstroke_0.6.cvs20040921-2_i386.deb Sep 21 17:19:00 i installed nano but maybe need ncurses-base_5.4-3.osso1_all.deb ? Sep 21 17:19:16 Italodance, ah, yes. please install that too. Sep 21 17:19:27 I thought you installed it Sep 21 17:19:31 ok Sep 21 17:25:31 johnx i am there! Sep 21 17:25:42 find delete and save it yes? Sep 21 17:25:48 manually? Sep 21 17:25:59 yes, delete the line Sep 21 17:26:02 then save the file Sep 21 17:26:14 it should be at the bottom Sep 21 17:32:31 how can i save? Sep 21 17:35:04 Italodance, hit ctrl on the keyboard, then hit x Sep 21 17:39:05 then? Sep 21 17:39:10 it want y or no Sep 21 17:39:18 yes Sep 21 17:39:24 when i click on ctrl and Sep 21 17:39:27 y Sep 21 17:39:33 the page can't close Sep 21 17:39:37 it's normal? Sep 21 17:40:34 what does it say? Sep 21 17:41:04 after ctrl and x: Sep 21 17:41:33 after ctrl and x, hit y Sep 21 17:41:46 then enter Sep 21 17:41:58 save modified buffer (answering "No" will destroy changes) Sep 21 17:42:02 Y YES Sep 21 17:42:05 N NO Sep 21 17:42:07 hit "y" Sep 21 17:42:16 ^C Cancel Sep 21 17:42:51 yes i hit it by ctrl but page is still on and without close Sep 21 17:43:03 hit enter Sep 21 17:51:44 johnx enter? Sep 21 17:51:53 * Stslaptop wonders if it's all the uni students going back to the uni town today since the train is absolutely full Sep 21 17:51:54 first ctrl and x Sep 21 17:52:00 second ctrl and y Sep 21 17:52:05 but no change Sep 21 17:52:10 ? Sep 21 17:52:18 ctrl x Sep 21 17:52:19 y Sep 21 17:52:20 enter Sep 21 17:55:59 no changed Sep 21 17:56:07 one more time Sep 21 17:56:13 ctrl-q? :P Sep 21 17:56:16 ctrl and hit x Sep 21 17:56:26 correct Sep 21 17:56:28 (unsuspend term) Sep 21 17:56:42 then ask me: save modified buffer (answering "No" will destroy changes) Sep 21 17:56:46 Y YES Sep 21 17:56:49 N NO Sep 21 17:56:54 again Sep 21 17:56:57 ctrl Sep 21 17:57:00 no Sep 21 17:57:02 not control Sep 21 17:57:03 and enter y Sep 21 17:57:04 just hit y Sep 21 17:57:07 but no changed Sep 21 17:58:37 johnx: so there's a fair possibility we can make h-i-m work for a nit-env-lxde (for gtk and maybe qt) apps? Sep 21 17:58:54 it works, it's just not ideal Sep 21 17:59:17 it's basically you want to make the otherwise windows respect the newly sized work area? Sep 21 17:59:48 its window type gets set to dock *after* the window is mapped, so I think openbox is ignoring it Sep 21 17:59:56 ah Sep 21 18:00:04 that's probably hackable Sep 21 18:00:09 the code that does it is pretty simple Sep 21 18:00:10 I don't tihnk it has provisions for windows chaning types, which is the case when I use devilspie on it Sep 21 18:00:31 yeah, if it became a dock from the beginning I would imagine it would work Sep 21 18:02:08 probably the same with matchbox-keyboard Sep 21 18:02:38 i'll take a look at it later, this sideways driving in train is making me feel wobbly :/ Sep 21 18:02:39 bbl Sep 21 18:02:54 alright, I'm going to sleep Sep 21 18:03:01 Italodance, good luck Sep 21 18:08:15 johnx Sep 21 18:08:18 no :( Sep 21 18:08:31 my n800 hasn't a keyboard Sep 21 18:08:49 if i press enter then can see large keyboard Sep 21 18:09:12 :") Sep 21 19:41:24 how do you make a deb? Sep 21 19:41:32 i've got ./debian-binary ./data.tar.gz and ./control.tar.gz Sep 21 19:41:41 apparently i need to use ar Sep 21 19:41:49 but i don't know the syntax Sep 21 19:42:14 You normally make a deb with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot ;) Sep 21 19:42:21 well Sep 21 19:42:25 i have an ipkg Sep 21 19:42:34 which apparently can be converted from debs Sep 21 19:42:41 and i can find loads of places detailing that Sep 21 19:42:48 but the other way? not so many Sep 21 19:44:00 I would guess the ar syntax is something like ar q foo.deb file1 file2 file3 Sep 21 19:44:20 aha! Sep 21 19:44:24 i was trying to use m Sep 21 19:44:26 :P Sep 21 19:44:29 :P Sep 21 19:44:50 ugh Sep 21 19:44:51 aladds, m is move Sep 21 19:45:03 well i thought "move into archive... Sep 21 19:45:05 " Sep 21 19:45:06 :P Sep 21 19:45:17 aladds, it's move _in_ an archive Sep 21 19:45:21 it's now complaining that arm isn't the same as armel Sep 21 19:45:34 And it's right Sep 21 19:45:40 :( Sep 21 19:49:33 so now i need to compile it for armel Sep 21 19:49:42 does anyone have cross-compile set up? Sep 21 19:51:36 ah no wait a min Sep 21 19:51:56 familiar (from where i got this package) is little endian Sep 21 19:52:19 so surely, arm packages which are little endian should work on deblet? Sep 21 20:01:44 aladds: arm and armel have different calling conventions, thats why they're different Sep 21 20:02:00 it's the arm new ABI, and also a new syscall convention too I think Sep 21 20:02:45 ah Sep 21 20:02:48 sham Sep 21 20:02:52 shame* Sep 21 20:03:44 back to trying to compile it then Sep 21 20:04:10 will xserver-xorg-dev install all the xlib headers? Sep 21 20:04:19 unless the familiar binary is for "armel" rather than "arm" Sep 21 20:04:39 (assuming they follow the debian naming, which I think they did) Sep 21 20:05:10 ~nick TaskBot Sep 21 20:05:14 ~join #grouptask Sep 21 20:05:15 crashanddie: Okay Sep 21 20:05:19 ~part Sep 21 20:05:20 /part Sep 21 20:05:24 ~part #maemo Sep 21 20:10:33 has xlibs-dev been replaced? Sep 21 20:10:41 and if so, what by? Sep 21 20:11:41 ~help Sep 21 20:11:58 crashanddie: It left. ;) Sep 21 20:12:40 blafasel, no it didn't, I wanted to query infobot Sep 21 20:12:45 ~lart blafasel Sep 21 20:12:45 * infobot raises middle finger to blafasel Sep 21 20:12:51 ~lart infobot Sep 21 20:12:51 * infobot grabs a large, mis-shapened log, with squirrels, and beats crashanddie until only the nuts remain ... which the squirrels run off with Sep 21 20:13:35 blafasel, I'm just demoing the bots to a friend Sep 21 20:14:08 I'm not offended easily ;) Sep 21 20:23:22 ~murder crashanddie Sep 21 20:23:23 * infobot shoots crashanddie in his sleep Sep 21 20:24:11 ~eat crashanddie Sep 21 20:24:12 That's too disgusting. Sep 21 20:24:19 ~eat crashanddie Sep 21 20:28:43 aladds: i'll have a dedicated deblet qemu-armel at some point Sep 21 20:28:58 cool Sep 21 20:29:10 http://newpeople.debian.org/~aurel32/qemu/armel/ is a good qemu image Sep 21 20:29:10 i'm currently installing xorg-dev Sep 21 20:29:11 :P Sep 21 20:29:18 may need to be apt-get dist-upgraded though Sep 21 20:30:12 evening all Sep 21 20:32:35 'lo, lardman. Sep 21 20:32:45 hey GeneralAntilles, how's things? Sep 21 20:32:51 did you see the presentation :) Sep 21 20:32:58 * lardman ducks Sep 21 20:33:07 Nope Sep 21 20:33:16 Did anybody record it? Sep 21 20:33:24 ah well, I have your wrath to look forward to then :) Sep 21 20:33:47 sjgasdy meantioned something about my expense on jaiku. . . . Sep 21 20:34:18 well, you know, pick on the easy (not present) target, to deflect attention and all that ;) Sep 21 20:34:31 * timeless returns home Sep 21 20:35:29 Stskeeps: xstroke is looking for freetype headers, any idea which package might give me those? neither freetype or freetype-dev seem available Sep 21 20:35:35 No presentation, just a 30 minute roast of Ryan? ;) Sep 21 20:35:41 aladds: libfreetype-dev?:P Sep 21 20:35:46 oh Sep 21 20:36:07 nope :( Sep 21 20:36:11 libfreetype6-dev Sep 21 20:36:13 GAN800: not far off, all sorts of troubles with the presentation equipment, about 1/2 the presentations were ad-libed for the first few minutes while those were sorted Sep 21 20:36:31 hm Sep 21 20:36:38 apparently it'a installed Sep 21 20:36:43 always troubles with presentation equipment Sep 21 20:37:05 * aquatix can only be amused about the amount of troubles even geeks have with beamers and such :) Sep 21 20:37:15 yeah, for next time we should try to organise some laptops to be kept in the rooms and always working, etc. Sep 21 20:37:24 reminds me to check whether vga works correctly on my laptop ;) Sep 21 20:37:35 aquatix: true, 200-odd technical people and still troubles! :) Sep 21 20:40:09 anyone know which package might give me the 'bold' command Sep 21 20:40:13 ? Sep 21 20:42:12 nevermind Sep 21 20:42:49 dpkg -S "bold" Sep 21 20:43:05 * lardman had to Google to remember Sep 21 20:44:00 yeah got it Sep 21 20:44:03 thanks though Sep 21 20:45:08 np Sep 21 20:46:05 where should I look to work out how the xserver interacts with the screen, whatever that might be? Sep 21 20:46:23 and specifically to look at how updates which are not full screen are handled Sep 21 20:48:11 vga adaptor time, eh? Sep 21 20:48:22 yeah, thought I'd take a look at least Sep 21 20:48:44 From talking to some Nokians, they thought the USB otg host was slow anyway Sep 21 20:49:03 How's your one working? Sep 21 20:49:14 it works Sep 21 20:49:19 but slowly Sep 21 20:49:31 Interesting that the usb host is slow Sep 21 20:49:31 has anyone benchmarked the usb bandwidth at all? Sep 21 20:49:39 Not that I've seen. Sep 21 20:50:04 Might bug -developers about it. Sep 21 20:50:24 yeah, thought I'd try some tests first though just to see Sep 21 20:50:59 have seen a usb2vga adaptor for £35, which is not bad and I'd get that even before working out if the usb thing is a show stopper Sep 21 20:51:11 just need to find out the chipset so that it will at least work Sep 21 20:51:30 Startech Sep 21 20:51:37 usb2vga2 Sep 21 20:51:46 Anything sis based Sep 21 20:52:02 no, this is allegedly and oem product for scan.co.uk Sep 21 20:52:13 but I presume it must use one of the two chipsets Sep 21 20:52:47 but as they say with presumption being the mother of all, somethingorothers Sep 21 20:53:14 I'd just get the startech and not have the worry of it being wrong. Sep 21 20:53:28 expensive though ~£60 Sep 21 20:53:50 and I hope the next device has built-in tv output Sep 21 20:54:12 Wow, was only $60 Sep 21 20:54:30 yeah well we pay the same in £ as you do in $ Sep 21 20:54:30 It really ought to Sep 21 20:54:32 :S Sep 21 20:54:38 OMAP3 can handle it. Sep 21 20:55:03 640x480 framebuffer just for TV Sep 21 22:17:05 Hi, anyone know of a hex editor for the tablet? Sep 21 22:23:15 anyone know where pupnik is? Sep 21 22:23:54 No :( Sep 21 22:28:03 was he at the summit? Sep 21 22:28:23 no Sep 21 22:28:40 qwerty12_N800, if you don't find anything useful, vim+xxd could be the answer Sep 21 22:29:06 or use mc :) Sep 21 22:29:20 yacoob: thanks, will remember that Sep 21 22:29:35 jott: thanks, i've got mc on here... Sep 21 22:30:40 qwerty12_N800: just f3 and then f4 Sep 21 22:30:50 hmm.. I didn't package kdeutils yet, else you could also use okteta :P Sep 21 22:31:23 text-tools still rule the world :) Sep 21 22:31:29 hte is also very nice Sep 21 22:33:28 hte unfortunately only supports x86 disasm :/ Sep 21 22:33:51 hmm... ony thin gI was wondering while on the train back, does anyone know if there are any plans to get a newer gcc than the old 3.4 one in scratchbox? :) Sep 21 22:34:04 oh Sep 21 22:34:09 it does arm now? ..hmm Sep 21 22:34:13 yep, thanks! mc ftw. i'm doing a quick hack to load another model's fw Sep 21 22:34:44 bad news Sep 21 22:34:48 Mek: you can install a newer version - but that will break binary compatibility :) Sep 21 22:34:55 I broke my n810 Sep 21 22:35:02 :( Sep 21 22:35:11 screen is kaput Sep 21 22:35:37 jott: yeah... I guess that would indeed be the problem... perhaps freemantle will use a newer gcc? :) Sep 21 22:35:41 crashanddie, warranty? Sep 21 22:35:53 maybe, but all the paperwork is back in France Sep 21 22:36:12 Screen is kaput or touch panel is kaput? Sep 21 22:36:25 Mek: yes afair it will. would be pathetic if not anyway... Sep 21 22:36:27 screen is disconnected, methinks Sep 21 22:36:38 I'd buy that. Sep 21 22:36:52 crashanddie: maybe you can just bring it to a nokia store without paper stuff. Sep 21 22:36:53 Not the first N810 I've heard of going dead by the screen disconnecting. Sep 21 22:36:54 Keyboard still lights up, and I can still hear the sound Sep 21 22:37:05 when I type on the keyboard Sep 21 22:37:08 it can't be older than 2 years anyway. Sep 21 22:37:24 crashanddie: you know what i suggest reading ;) Sep 21 22:37:26 but no clicks when I tap the keyboard, no LED, and slider has a hard time opening/closing Sep 21 22:37:36 qwerty12_N800, yeah, but I don't have the tools, I'm already looking at it Sep 21 22:37:54 :( Sep 21 22:37:55 I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of reconnecting it (I fell a foot or so) Sep 21 22:38:02 it fell** Sep 21 22:39:39 crashanddie: i would just try to go to a nokia store.. maybe they are cooperative... Sep 21 22:39:46 yeah Sep 21 22:39:57 I just need the tools really, I'm pretty sure I could fix it myself Sep 21 22:40:07 it's just the closest nokia store is quite a way away Sep 21 22:40:29 yeah well but if you try so, you warranty is invalidated for sure :) Sep 21 22:41:20 oh hang on Sep 21 22:41:25 there's one in se15 Sep 21 22:44:30 awesome, a new one opened just two bus stops away Sep 21 22:50:29 915 words a day Sep 21 22:50:54 nine hundred and fifteen words a day Sep 21 22:51:10 lcuk, I BROKE MY NIT :'( Sep 21 22:51:13 hi everyone btw, im still awestruck by how much i typoe Sep 21 22:51:17 a little decency, please Sep 21 22:51:18 what happened? Sep 21 22:51:29 it fell off the coffee table Sep 21 22:51:34 and? Sep 21 22:51:40 no screen Sep 21 22:51:49 He broke it with his ugly face. Sep 21 22:52:07 GAN800, my face compared to yours is about as precious as the Queen's fanny Sep 21 22:52:15 hello high emporer antilles Sep 21 22:52:32 crashanddie, does the device come on and make noises, but no outp[ut Sep 21 22:52:40 lcuk, yeah, exact Sep 21 22:52:41 ly Sep 21 22:52:53 do as jott says Sep 21 22:53:03 he is afterall a superhero :) Sep 21 22:53:13 jott, did you find khertan after i left Sep 21 22:53:15 hey lcuk you chatty follower :) Sep 21 22:53:16 keyboard clicks and lights up, but screen is just disconnected, but yeah, tomorrow morning, nokia trip Sep 21 22:53:37 shitter Sep 21 22:53:48 lcuk: i believe not :/ Sep 21 22:54:01 Nokia needs to make the display connector less shitty in the next round. Sep 21 22:54:06 he mustv gone himself then? maybe he fell in the toilet like rm Sep 21 22:54:13 hah Sep 21 22:54:15 GAN800, is it a recurring problem? Sep 21 22:54:35 crashanddie, I've talked to more than a few people. . . . Sep 21 22:54:50 yeah, so have I, over the course of my life Sep 21 22:55:04 i opened my suitcase and found a nice signed statement from customs that they thought all my technology was a bomb Sep 21 22:55:17 lcuk, seriously? Sep 21 22:55:27 lcuk, oh, you back in the UK? Sep 21 22:55:34 having two tablets is very suspicious :D Sep 21 22:56:07 . . . who had the same problem problem. :rolleyes: Sep 21 22:56:20 yer, "we opened your case and checked its contents because it failed the security screening, however this inspection revealed the true contents (chargers and keyboards and deoderant) and allowed it to continue on its journey unmolested :) Sep 21 22:56:32 the 2 tablets were in hand luggage Sep 21 22:56:45 i kept swapping between them - Sep 21 22:56:54 i had to flip the memory card out each time Sep 21 22:57:35 I think the worst was at TLHOPE, the keynote about camera-backpacks, the guy had a dvr --taped to one of the sides, a battery, a shitload of wire connecting the two, and ever since he installed it, has never had his luggage checked Sep 21 22:57:38 hehe you could have used wifi and made the plane crash :p Sep 21 23:00:31 "bluetooth device detected; do you want to pair with Airbus A380?" :P Sep 21 23:00:53 jott, no - the code expects some things on mmc1 for now as you know Sep 21 23:01:18 Mek, "Please enter 2^128-character passphrase" Sep 21 23:01:27 :) Sep 21 23:02:43 crashanddie: 1234 or 0000 will always work with bt devices :P Sep 21 23:02:57 hey, thats the passphrase i had on my luggage Sep 21 23:03:05 the thing is Sep 21 23:03:13 most people thing the passcode always is 0000 or 1234 Sep 21 23:03:18 but what they don't realise Sep 21 23:03:26 is that it's a code both sides have to input Sep 21 23:03:46 so whether you input "1", or "6719", it's all the same Sep 21 23:03:53 because you have to share the code to the other party Sep 21 23:04:04 depending on the device.. Sep 21 23:04:07 crashanddie, my demo was almost ruined by random act of bluetooth Sep 21 23:04:23 lcuk, your demo was almost ruined by presence of yourself :P Sep 21 23:04:23 i had my apple connected inside my bag and it was randomly pushing buttons Sep 21 23:05:00 im fine demoing to a single person - once i am connecting with someone i dont care if 1000 people are looking over my shoulder at the big display Sep 21 23:05:19 but i fall to pieces if i have to talk on my own Sep 21 23:05:29 Hehe Sep 21 23:05:59 GAN800, has any video been released yet of the summit Sep 21 23:06:10 lcuk: your presentation went fine. Sep 21 23:06:25 it was a lot better than my louzy kde talk :P Sep 21 23:06:36 only the qa from Ari's talk at OSiM. Sep 21 23:07:00 jott :) thanks Sep 21 23:07:08 :) mek Sep 21 23:07:28 who are you by the way, your nick rings a bell - were you at summit with us Sep 21 23:07:47 me? I'm Marijn Kruisselbrink Sep 21 23:08:49 and i ask the same question - cos not a single name jumps out, its been a very exciting blur Sep 21 23:09:18 lcuk: Which of the dozens of presentations you did to various groups of people are you talking about? ;) Sep 21 23:09:21 just look at some pictures lcuk :) Sep 21 23:09:47 yer good point, are pictures up? Sep 21 23:09:52 some are Sep 21 23:10:04 http://flickr.com/photos/tags/maemosummit/show/ Sep 21 23:10:10 summit was too successful - more than 200 people. way too many nicks, names and faces to remember... :-P Sep 21 23:10:14 i shouldv had a proper camera on my nokia - then i couldv wrote on who ppl were as i took pictures Sep 21 23:10:35 but thats future :) Sep 21 23:11:34 http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoughtfix/2873383628/ :) Sep 21 23:11:56 there is lcuk pressing space on his bluetooth kb :) Sep 21 23:12:14 is that th back of neals' head? Sep 21 23:12:27 lanyardorama! Sep 21 23:12:44 im gonna collect lanyards :) Sep 21 23:12:48 the left one is mek :) Sep 21 23:12:50 i think Sep 21 23:13:16 yeah, that is me Sep 21 23:14:05 http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoughtfix/2872557861/ lol there is mek in the first row looking a bit annoyed/bored :) Sep 21 23:14:34 tired :P Sep 21 23:14:49 :D ahhhhh a face Sep 21 23:15:59 did you have far to travel Sep 21 23:16:11 7 hours by train... Sep 21 23:16:31 if you were khertan you would have made a new app by now Sep 21 23:16:51 I made 3 different apps last night Sep 21 23:16:57 and deleted two today Sep 21 23:17:43 I'm pissed Sep 21 23:17:46 I'm a bit tipsy Sep 21 23:17:49 I'm calling it a night Sep 21 23:17:51 'later Sep 21 23:18:17 gnite crash Sep 21 23:18:26 go2nokia tomorrow Sep 21 23:18:55 my shoulders hurt and arms ache Sep 21 23:19:04 and feet are tired :) Sep 21 23:19:28 hey jott, i think i "get" the metro/transport system Sep 21 23:19:41 i managed to get to tegal by train/bus Sep 21 23:20:23 heh it must have been of use putting the "Map" button in liqbase ;) Sep 21 23:21:18 yer, as a hack it worked, but im not a mapping person :) Sep 21 23:23:19 jott, thanks for finding the pictures, i was feeling a bit miffed i didnt sit and capture some myself Sep 21 23:23:30 hehe but the map made one aware how bad yuv is for colored text :) Sep 21 23:23:40 * lcuk will thank thoughtfix himself when he sees him Sep 21 23:23:57 not really, that was simply bitmap scaling Sep 21 23:24:21 at native size its not so bad - ill see if i can get a test in soon Sep 21 23:25:52 your eyes are so bad dude :P Sep 21 23:26:57 indeed they are Sep 21 23:27:11 http://engadget.com Sep 21 23:30:40 qwerty12_N800: i just uploaded ht to extras-devel :) Sep 21 23:31:31 jott: thanks! sounds cool, i'll grab the deb when it uploads :) Sep 21 23:32:06 it's up :) Sep 21 23:32:21 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/h/ht/ Sep 21 23:33:17 but what is it Sep 21 23:33:41 lcuk: hex-editor with integrated disassembler and elf parser Sep 21 23:33:48 (console based) Sep 21 23:34:03 would it use the pg up/down buttons on the toolbar? Sep 21 23:34:23 * lcuk wondered what they were there for because they dont do what they say on the tin with actual console data Sep 21 23:34:52 yes you can navigate with pg up/down :) Sep 21 23:35:03 rm_you had some strange console editor open the other day and i couldn use it ;) Sep 21 23:35:12 jott: installed but it wont respond to my taps :) Sep 21 23:35:16 good, then its got a gui and it might work for me :D Sep 21 23:35:42 qwerty12_N800: ah it does not seem to have mouse support :) Sep 21 23:35:51 keyboard only ;> Sep 21 23:36:02 that's me SOL :) Sep 21 23:37:11 it reassembles the turbo pascal tui style :) what was it called again.. Sep 21 23:38:49 didnt dos have a mouse driver though? Sep 21 23:38:55 with a cursor as big as a yuv pixel ;0 Sep 21 23:39:21 Turbo PASCAL's editor was awesome. Sep 21 23:39:25 there was a lot of mouse drivers for dos Sep 21 23:39:52 just copy one over and run it (virus check it first) it will work out of the box :D Sep 21 23:43:13 lcuk: there where some tricks to get a "real" mouse pointer in text mode like playing with the fonts :) Sep 21 23:43:21 jott, next time i come to berlin, we have to go for a drink in cbase Sep 21 23:43:30 yer sure. Sep 21 23:44:26 they were havin a hackfest there this afternoon - the guy who looked like vin diesel said they partied real hard on sat night and i dont doubt it :) Sep 21 23:49:12 I wonder if there's been any progress on the contact details for Freenode. . . . Sep 21 23:49:40 * GeneralAntilles could really go for a maemo.org cloak. Sep 21 23:49:54 GeneralAntilles, how long you been working on it? Sep 21 23:50:07 X-Fade filed a request a couple months ago. Sep 21 23:50:10 lol... Sep 21 23:50:30 We got the securabit cloak in two weeks time Sep 21 23:50:33 GeneralAntilles hey you are a offical pdpc supporter. so make you donations dance :) Sep 21 23:50:42 Hehe Sep 21 23:50:56 I do have a line in with a couple staffers. Sep 21 23:51:22 GeneralAntilles, seriously though, talk directly to a few opers Sep 21 23:51:37 GeneralAntilles, if you play your cards right, they'll ask for a list of people Sep 21 23:52:26 heh GeneralAntilles just wants to show off with a maemo/council/chairman cloak :) Sep 21 23:52:40 Ha Sep 21 23:52:46 heh Sep 21 23:52:51 not possible though :P Sep 21 23:53:04 s/talk directly/yell at X-Fade to "Fix it! Fix it! Fix it!"/ Sep 21 23:53:08 maemo/council/GeneralAntilles is the best you'd get Sep 21 23:53:23 maemo.org/council/GeneralAntilles Sep 21 23:53:36 I don't think maemo.org will be possible Sep 21 23:53:44 No periods? Sep 21 23:53:49 no websites Sep 21 23:53:50 I swear I've seen periods. . . . Sep 21 23:54:01 periods are fine Sep 21 23:54:17 anyway Sep 21 23:54:18 It's an organization Sep 21 23:54:20 later Sep 21 23:54:23 GeneralAntilles, you have lost x-fade now - he played on a wii for the first time the other night and is adicted Sep 21 23:54:26 distinct from Nokia's Maemo. Sep 21 23:54:29 the servers are goin to hell Sep 21 23:54:32 lcuk, ahahaha Sep 21 23:54:36 First time, eh? Sep 21 23:54:41 i believe3 so yer Sep 21 23:54:47 he was surprised when it was on Sep 21 23:54:48 Somebody should mail him a copy of Twilight Princess. Sep 21 23:54:49 First time always hurts Sep 21 23:55:11 and Wario Ware Sep 21 23:55:15 crashanddie: why wouldn't maemo/council/chairman be possible? Sep 21 23:55:16 He'll implode. Sep 21 23:55:30 GeneralAntilles, some of the newer games dont come close to the socialability of original sports (which was what was on) Sep 21 23:55:33 "Unique identifier" sounds like it can be chairman too .. Sep 21 23:55:33 jott, cuz the last part is the nickname Sep 21 23:55:41 mo "unique identifier" Sep 21 23:55:47 http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloakformat Sep 21 23:56:05 dunno Sep 21 23:56:12 http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles/a107_speed.jpg Sep 21 23:58:03 wtf @ ballmer http://uk.gizmodo.com/ Sep 21 23:58:17 hes even more off his trolleyt Sep 21 23:59:03 this guy is on cocaine 24/7 Sep 21 23:59:14 dude wtf Sep 21 23:59:45 he really is insane Sep 22 00:00:01 i thought it all stopped at flying chairs Sep 22 00:00:52 they should make a screensaver with that Sep 22 00:00:59 * lcuk replaces bacon.png Sep 22 01:11:38 has Nokia announced a new maemo deviceÂ¥' Sep 22 01:11:41 ? Sep 22 01:16:18 No. Sep 22 01:21:55 There seem to be many utilities that switch between USB Peripheral/Host (Networking) modes. The 3 I've tried are: Sep 22 01:21:55 USB Control Sep 22 01:21:55 USB Host/Otg Sep 22 01:21:55 maemo-control-usb Sep 22 01:21:55 And then the Maemo PC Connectivity package installs maemo-control-usb among other things. But I read somewhere that maemo-control-usb requires USB Control (Which requires Python). Sep 22 01:22:05 What I'm trying to do is set up a LAN connection over USB between my N810 Diable and my Mac OSX Leopard. The reason I want this LAN connection is I'm trying to use Eclipse Pluthon to develop Python apps that can be run/debugged directly on the N810 without the need for the sandbox environment on my PC. Sep 22 01:22:06 My questions are: Sep 22 01:22:07 1. Do all three of these little utilities do the same thing? Sep 22 01:22:07 2. Is Host mode the same as LAN/Networking mode? Sep 22 01:22:18 3. What USB/PC Connectivity packages need to be installed to accomplish this. Sep 22 01:22:19 P.S. I've read all the incomplete documentation and am completely confused because of the similar utilities having dependencies/conflicts, and not enough info about if they are good-to-go on Diablo or just Chinook. Sep 22 01:23:59 Erm, why do you need USBnet for that? Sep 22 01:24:06 Just copy the files over sftp or something. . . . Sep 22 01:27:03 The Eclipse documentation say that PC Networking is necessary. PC Networking installs maemo-control-usb. Sep 22 01:27:28 maemo-control-usb needs USB Control I believe. Sep 22 01:27:38 Necessary how? Sep 22 01:28:05 That's just what I've read. Sep 22 01:28:44 Do I need te PC Networking package to use Eclipse-Pluthon? Sep 22 01:29:45 I'm pretty confused but I've read that the N810 has to be in host/Lan mode to use ssh from the PC to the N810. Sep 22 01:29:55 Forget USB Sep 22 01:30:00 What do you think WiFi is for? Sep 22 01:31:43 sounds like there's some incorrect documentation leading you astray. Sep 22 01:31:52 Maybe I'm using the wrong terms. PC Networking = Maemo PC Connectivity package that is required by Eclipse/Pluthon to debug directly on the N810. Sep 22 01:40:11 I just want to know the easiest way to enable the N810 Diable USB for LAN connection to my Mac so that I can use Eclipse-Pluthon. Sep 22 01:53:00 tokyodan: I guess nobody here knows that. Sep 22 01:53:55 no one here at the moment, anyway Sep 22 02:14:15 I guess you're right sneakernet. Sep 22 02:38:50 Anyone figure out how to get USB networking to work via WINXP on N810? Sep 22 02:39:27 Anyone figure out how to get USB networking to work via WINXP on N810? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 22 02:59:57 2008