**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 30 02:59:57 2008 Sep 30 03:00:00 so the update didnt exactly make modest any more useful *sigh* Sep 30 03:00:14 It was a bugfix release. Sep 30 03:00:16 What did you expect? Sep 30 03:00:43 moontiger, what would make modest more useful for you? Sep 30 03:03:42 i was just hoping is all :) Sep 30 03:03:49 i just saw a g-phone in the wild Sep 30 03:04:02 it looks way cooler than in shots ive seen online Sep 30 03:04:12 is it fast? Sep 30 03:04:19 yah it looked really snappy Sep 30 03:04:35 the touch scrolling is at least as good as the stuff on n810 Sep 30 03:04:54 and its smaller and thinner than i thought it would be Sep 30 03:04:55 gsm coverage still sucks here Sep 30 03:05:07 yah it seemed to be loading pages real fast Sep 30 03:05:31 and when u pop out the keyboard to type messages the screen rotates landscape ... unlike the iphone Sep 30 03:05:37 i was impressed Sep 30 03:05:59 iphone doesn't have a kb Sep 30 03:06:00 :) Sep 30 03:07:58 heh yah i know ... but when they cant type msgs in landscape Sep 30 03:08:16 anyways i was impressed like i say ... and i didnt think i would be Sep 30 03:08:18 their screen res sucks Sep 30 03:08:24 that's why no landscape probably Sep 30 03:08:26 :) Sep 30 03:08:29 yah Sep 30 03:08:47 <--- doesnt like iphones Sep 30 03:09:00 platform as many others Sep 30 03:09:16 shiny, vendor lockin Sep 30 03:09:21 :) Sep 30 03:11:15 yeah i know and that will stop me buying one .... but it was nicer than i thought Sep 30 03:11:27 anybody knows when canola beta 10 might be out? Sep 30 03:11:39 greg: i guess i saw people installing it? Sep 30 03:12:27 gregorovius, soon. Sep 30 03:12:30 They're working on it. Sep 30 03:12:58 KotCzarny: it's in extras-devel, but I don't think it's installable yet Sep 30 03:13:08 gregorovius, that was a mistake. Sep 30 03:13:13 yeah, I read that Sep 30 03:13:46 I was looking for a more precise answer, like 'this week'? =) Sep 30 03:20:39 gregorovius, it's in troubleshooting stage. Sep 30 03:20:42 As soon as it's ready. Sep 30 04:23:00 does anyone know of a good task management application that would sync with todoist.com? Sep 30 04:38:30 does anyone know of a good task management application that would sync with todoist.com? Sep 30 05:01:52 what would be a good synchronization software that would sync gpe-todo with todoist.com and other links? Sep 30 05:01:58 ... Sep 30 05:02:05 ask on mailing list Sep 30 05:02:19 apparently you don't get your answer on irc Sep 30 05:02:20 :) Sep 30 05:03:05 i already asked on the mailing lists Sep 30 05:03:22 just thought i may get a faster question on irc Sep 30 05:03:45 but i saw you asking it for a few last days Sep 30 05:03:56 and most of the people there are regulars Sep 30 05:04:05 and not that we are ignoring your question Sep 30 05:04:06 :) Sep 30 05:04:25 unless you are someone else Sep 30 05:04:28 i just thought that my message was ignored or didn't go through Sep 30 05:04:33 and my visual memory is playing tricks Sep 30 05:06:47 i apologize for flooding the questions repeatedly Sep 30 05:07:27 :) Sep 30 05:07:47 i guess i would have to wait from a reply on the mailing list then Sep 30 05:12:45 hi qwerty Sep 30 05:12:53 morning irc dose? Sep 30 05:12:57 hi KotCzarny Sep 30 05:13:08 No, need to finish some work :P Sep 30 05:13:16 on irc? Sep 30 05:13:18 :) Sep 30 05:13:57 Well... I guess not, but my computer's on so I may as well join :P Sep 30 05:14:11 who you wanna cheat :P Sep 30 05:15:22 If anyone is good at Business studies here... :P Sep 30 05:16:15 :) Sep 30 05:52:45 so im curious about the ssu Sep 30 05:52:59 it was a 12.8mb download and reqd 33mb of memory Sep 30 05:53:08 and there is nothing significant i can see Sep 30 05:53:12 wtf did they do? Sep 30 05:53:15 ssu? Sep 30 05:53:21 installed a backhole Sep 30 05:53:27 super spastic underwear? Sep 30 05:53:29 * moontiger laughs Sep 30 05:53:40 backdoor? Sep 30 05:53:51 backintosh Sep 30 05:53:55 backwash Sep 30 05:53:56 i mean dsl is only just smaller than 33mb for a whole distro Sep 30 05:53:59 backspace Sep 30 05:54:08 backupatyou Sep 30 05:54:21 backyouhellspawn Sep 30 05:54:28 backula Sep 30 05:54:35 backbit Sep 30 05:54:50 backrabbit Sep 30 05:54:57 I'd rather not Sep 30 05:55:09 backboot Sep 30 05:55:15 backdoorcatiswatchingyoutype Sep 30 05:55:29 backturbation Sep 30 05:55:47 backwardshatisforn00bs Sep 30 05:56:06 backshish Sep 30 05:56:15 backscratch Sep 30 05:56:22 backslap Sep 30 05:56:25 oh well ... im off to bed then ... to ponder the mystery of the huge update for nothing Sep 30 05:56:26 backindex Sep 30 05:56:30 backbed Sep 30 05:56:34 backtag Sep 30 05:56:40 backdate Sep 30 05:56:47 backitUP Sep 30 05:56:54 backleup Sep 30 05:56:57 backslash Sep 30 05:57:06 backend Sep 30 05:57:10 backdoorgnome Sep 30 05:57:16 backadonna Sep 30 05:57:21 backofthefridge Sep 30 05:57:43 backstreetboys Sep 30 05:57:49 backwhereit'sdark Sep 30 05:58:05 backopotammus Sep 30 05:58:14 backbackbackbackbackbackbackmushroommushroom Sep 30 05:58:27 backshot Sep 30 05:58:33 backetamine Sep 30 05:58:53 backaine Sep 30 05:59:09 backihuana Sep 30 05:59:37 backitch Sep 30 05:59:42 backsucker Sep 30 05:59:56 bored people :P Sep 30 06:00:04 backedpeople Sep 30 06:00:06 :P Sep 30 06:00:56 backstorm Sep 30 06:01:04 * qwerty12 is thankful for portable shit. I've 'obtained' 3 different versions of office and they all give me bs during install Sep 30 06:01:22 backorifice :P Sep 30 06:01:38 or was it backoffice Sep 30 06:01:43 both Sep 30 06:01:46 i know Sep 30 06:01:59 the logo for backorifice was some wierd stuff Sep 30 06:01:59 backCDC Sep 30 06:02:03 just asking what was he installing Sep 30 06:02:13 cdc? Sep 30 06:02:48 cult of the dead cow Sep 30 06:02:53 ahm Sep 30 06:03:07 qwerty: portable shit brings 2g1c imagery Sep 30 06:03:33 KotCzarny, *sigh* Sep 30 06:03:35 back.avi Sep 30 06:03:54 qwerty: so please, don't swear Sep 30 06:03:55 :) Sep 30 06:04:38 Sorry, it's an habit that has been etched forever on my brain :/. But I prefer swearing to watching 2g1c Sep 30 06:05:10 i have weeded out habitual swearing around my college end Sep 30 06:05:38 but you don't come from London ;) Sep 30 06:06:10 swearing is like caffine, it's much more effective/enjoyable if you don't use it all the time Sep 30 06:06:11 there are worse places than london Sep 30 06:06:43 Indeed, there is. My point is that I'm hearing it all the time anyway Sep 30 06:06:50 then when you need it, BAM! feels great Sep 30 06:06:55 :) Sep 30 06:07:11 qwerty: but consider you are the part of the unending swearing Sep 30 06:07:36 just install some linguistic firewall Sep 30 06:07:42 heh Sep 30 06:08:33 Meh, I do the opposite. I have some greasemonkey script that attempts to "unhide" swearing Sep 30 06:08:49 turning everything to shit? Sep 30 06:08:59 now, that's sick Sep 30 06:09:03 Worked well when it thought ProStreet was PornStreet... Sep 30 06:09:12 ShitStreet Sep 30 06:09:14 ;) Sep 30 06:09:47 Nah, it's more intelligent than that Sep 30 06:10:02 but will it blend? Sep 30 06:10:37 * qwerty12 now knows why I keep my ITT PM Box intentionally full Sep 30 06:13:57 re Sep 30 06:14:05 I see updates 36-2... Sep 30 06:14:29 is there any changelog? Sep 30 06:24:51 pack of 2 4gb flash drives for $20 including shipping on http://www.woot.com/ Sep 30 06:25:10 well, for those in the USA Sep 30 06:25:10 sd or cf? Sep 30 06:25:17 USB flash drives Sep 30 06:25:21 ~lart them for not shipping to UK Sep 30 06:25:21 * infobot chops them in half with a free AOL CD for not shipping to UK Sep 30 06:25:22 bah. Sep 30 06:25:38 although may be useful for misc tests Sep 30 06:26:13 my harddrive is running full. how to clean up ? Sep 30 06:26:26 sandisk finaly went offical with the 16gb microSDHC Sep 30 06:26:27 http://www.sandisk.com/Corporate/PressRoom/PressReleases/PressRelease.aspx?ID=4398 Sep 30 06:26:30 apt-get clean didn't free anything. Sep 30 06:26:41 apt-get remove --purge pr0n Sep 30 06:26:42 try apt-get takeOutTrash Sep 30 06:26:57 hey, guys, I dig internets and can't find the changelog for new SSU Sep 30 06:26:57 pusling: clone to sd Sep 30 06:27:02 apt-get; rm -rf / Sep 30 06:28:06 and how am I supposed to uninstall software with the application manager when there is a few dependencies involved ? Sep 30 06:28:20 ug, I hate that Sep 30 06:28:45 I can of course go apt-get, but isn't "application manager" the tool users should use ? Sep 30 06:30:17 pusling, automatic deps removing could end up in removing every single package Sep 30 06:30:18 :) Sep 30 06:30:47 only if it's badly implemented Sep 30 06:31:40 KotCzarny: I installed a game which had three packages with circular dependencies in between them, so I couldn't even start "from the top" Sep 30 06:32:00 then it's a bug Sep 30 06:32:09 which should be filled Sep 30 06:32:55 and upgrades does also seem to be one package at a time instead of pasing all packages at the same time, and when there is strict dependencies involved, that will also fail Sep 30 06:33:14 is it me or it would be nice if someone invented 4x microsd to 1x sd adapter? Sep 30 06:33:41 shouldn't be hard because sds allow for daisy chaining Sep 30 06:33:42 i think Sep 30 06:34:17 imagine 128gb worth of microsds in n800 Sep 30 06:34:18 ;) Sep 30 06:35:05 <|thunder> you guys see the new user agent on n800 ? Sep 30 06:35:05 <|thunder> Firefox/3.0a1 Tablet browser 0.3.7 RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_4.2008.36-5 Sep 30 06:35:13 Morning, all Sep 30 06:35:21 |thunder, It changes with each ssu update Sep 30 06:35:23 |thunder: and? Sep 30 06:35:32 wtf is "pre-installed-documentation-rx44" ? The OS2008 feature upgrade depends on it. Sep 30 06:35:37 Morning, Jaffa Sep 30 06:35:47 <|thunder> it changed from mozilla to firefox Sep 30 06:36:25 pusling: User manual PDFs Sep 30 06:37:11 anyway, nite nite people Sep 30 06:37:19 Jaffa: hmm.. I never read those yet and don't think I need them, but unremovable :/ Sep 30 06:37:30 Just delete the PDFs themselves Sep 30 06:42:21 is /home/user/MyDocs/.documents somewhere on the flash or on the internal memory ? Sep 30 06:45:50 pusling: everything's internal by default Sep 30 06:46:30 Jaffa: n810 has internal memory and internal flash and external memory (mini sd) Sep 30 06:47:19 Yes, I know. Sep 30 06:47:32 Everything's on the internal "memory" by default Sep 30 06:48:24 /media/mmc2 is the internal flash, and - by default - stores the factory shipped maps. /media/mmc1 is the external MiniSD slot; / is the internal "memory" and is the fs root. Sep 30 07:05:10 is there a way to tell maemo mapper where to store cached maps ? Sep 30 07:07:52 hah. symlinks. Sep 30 07:07:55 yeah, look in repo settings or something Sep 30 07:08:21 pusling: there is a setting for each map type Sep 30 07:09:06 ah. repo settings. Sep 30 07:11:19 hahaha, someone bought a VPN device on ebay, after plugging it in he found that it autoconnected to the previous owners confidential servers Sep 30 07:11:29 \o/ Sep 30 07:11:32 is maemo mapper reading the entire mapfile into memory ? Sep 30 07:12:59 sure no. Sep 30 07:13:22 pusling: I would like to ask you to think about it Sep 30 07:15:06 I know it would be silly, but maemo mapper is just so much slower with a big map file. Sep 30 07:23:43 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/29/AR2008092902762.html?nav=rss_email/components Sep 30 07:24:09 (the author has just had amental breakdown) Sep 30 07:25:00 stock market losses? :P Sep 30 07:25:26 everything together, although I guess that for this particular guy it was his personal stock losses =) Sep 30 07:47:31 Proteous: :) Sep 30 08:02:33 hello Sep 30 08:03:01 somebody interrupted builder1 now Sep 30 08:03:22 slonopotamus: Let me check.. Sep 30 08:03:36 X-Fade, funny log Sep 30 08:03:40 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/db_4.6.21-8maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt Sep 30 08:03:51 looks like it didn't hang Sep 30 08:04:01 it just took almost a day to run logging tests Sep 30 08:04:13 man, that builder is 50 times slower then my n800 Sep 30 08:04:29 Your N800 isn't emulating an ARM processor. Sep 30 08:04:36 slonopotamus: OOM? perhaps? Sep 30 08:04:57 qwerty, well, that emulator doesn't run an 400mhz, uh? Sep 30 08:05:12 slonopotamus: I think Ed's advice is the better solution to this problem? Sep 30 08:05:14 Maybe not, but qemu's arm emulation sucks balls. Sep 30 08:05:43 i will disable tests. the good point is that my tcl build actually works Sep 30 08:05:56 it's only extremely slow (on some tasks?) under qemu Sep 30 08:06:13 other tests have reasonable times Sep 30 08:07:07 maybe you should use arm devices for arm builders... :) Sep 30 08:08:48 should i file a bugreport somewhere (qemu)? Sep 30 08:08:55 Actually, that's not a terrible idea to look into. Sep 30 08:09:10 Is there $1000 lying around anywhere to pick up a cluster of Beagles? :P Sep 30 08:09:11 slonopotamus: We have actually discussed that at the summit ;) Sep 30 08:09:26 X-Fade, arm-based builders? Sep 30 08:09:39 slonopotamus: yes Sep 30 08:09:42 X-Fade, and? Sep 30 08:09:52 slonopotamus: Well, just that ;) Sep 30 08:10:02 X-Fade, oh :) i see. just discussed. Sep 30 08:10:21 Alternatively, get Mojo to give up some hours. Sep 30 08:10:38 Mojo - ? Sep 30 08:10:43 http://mojo.handhelds.org/ Sep 30 08:11:25 X-Fade, where's the builder source? Sep 30 08:11:46 GeneralAntilles: extras-cauldron on garage. Sep 30 08:12:33 at least now i have a weapon against bad builders. Sep 30 08:12:35 muahaha Sep 30 08:12:53 slonopotamus: We can always revoke your key ;) Sep 30 08:13:02 :( Sep 30 08:13:08 X-Fade = evil Sep 30 08:13:16 slonopotamus: Nah, but we need to find a fix. Sep 30 08:13:55 good bug - always reproducible bug Sep 30 08:14:04 is there some way to disable the "usb device not supported"/"no file system available" messages when plugging in usb devices? Sep 30 08:14:14 slonopotamus: Well, it is probably just slow. (somehow) Sep 30 08:14:27 i grant you my package so you can test whether that bug is fixed Sep 30 08:14:32 it is slow. Sep 30 08:14:37 slonopotamus: Did you try to build it inside scratchbox? Sep 30 08:14:49 15 hours for logging tests! Sep 30 08:14:58 it takes 15 minutes on n800 Sep 30 08:15:04 i don't have scratchbox, sorry Sep 30 08:15:18 Kegetys, http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/06/02/feel-the-power-of-usb-with-nokia-tablet/ - if you can recompile a kernel, try that. if not, I'll modify ke-recv for you Sep 30 08:16:01 maybe we could ask someone to try Sep 30 08:16:26 slonopotamus: I don't have time to test it in a scratchbox now, very busy today. But I should be able to tomorrow. Sep 30 08:16:51 If somebody wants to help test. Please? :) Sep 30 08:17:00 X-Fade, ok. as far as i understand, sources will be there until someone reuploads the package. Sep 30 08:17:16 lardman definitely doesn't want to test Sep 30 08:17:23 qwerty12: well, the devices seem to work fine so there shouldn't be a problem there, just the pop-ups are a bit annoying Sep 30 08:17:27 slonopotamus: Yes. All we keep original sources for all 'failed' builds. Sep 30 08:17:55 slonopotamus: Yes, but lardman is a very lazy guy :D Sep 30 08:18:11 I'd test but I need to reinstall grub Sep 30 08:19:12 * slonopotamus is very lucky at (in? sorry, bad english) hitting ugly bugs Sep 30 08:19:41 and i hate that :) Sep 30 08:19:46 slonopotamus: You help in making it better. Sep 30 08:21:00 Moo, X-Fade, qwerty Sep 30 08:21:09 Hey RST38h Sep 30 08:21:18 Hi RST38h Sep 30 08:21:36 "RST38h"... how do you read that? Sep 30 08:21:49 RST38h, While you are here, have you ever had success compiling your emutools under *nix? Sep 30 08:24:24 * qwerty12 will take that as a no :/ Sep 30 08:26:29 qwerty: Yep Sep 30 08:26:47 qwerty: They compiled just fine for me. Is there any specific problem? Sep 30 08:27:05 slonopotamus: as an abbreviation Sep 30 08:27:49 RST38h, Well, I saw no Makefile (yes, you all know I'm a n00b) so I merged it with emulib and used it's makefile to compile it. But I can't get all of it to compile :/ Sep 30 08:28:51 Weird...No makefile? Lemme check Sep 30 08:30:22 Yep. No makefile. It can only mean one thing: compile with gcc -o toolname -I. -I../EMULib toolname.c =) Sep 30 08:30:44 Ok, thanks, will try that :) Sep 30 08:30:47 And if there is a problem - let me know what the exact problem is Sep 30 08:31:03 [and I guess it is also a hint for me to release 'em with the correct makefile) Sep 30 08:31:18 :P Sep 30 08:33:16 and once again, could you dig osso-default-icons package from your NIT? Sep 30 08:33:36 or do you have it, or should i have it? my upgrade didnt finish because of that package Sep 30 08:33:41 wanna broken package? just ask me :) some weird bug with mysql: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/mysql-dfsg-5.0_5.0.51a-15maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt Sep 30 08:34:44 :( Sep 30 08:35:04 your builders do not like me Sep 30 08:35:16 it is the same for everyone Sep 30 08:35:51 In your particular case, it looks like the parser generator has failed Sep 30 08:36:09 derf: ping Sep 30 08:36:18 lARDman Sep 30 08:36:23 is there even a place like packages.debian.org for maemo? i havent found it at least... Sep 30 08:36:28 hi RST38h Sep 30 08:36:34 slonopotamus: That looks like a missing build dependency. Sep 30 08:36:39 macoute: fms.komkon.org/Maemo/ Sep 30 08:36:48 RST38h: thanks Sep 30 08:36:49 huh :) Sep 30 08:37:05 that _looks_ like missing dependency Sep 30 08:37:07 RST38h: and there should be every package for maemo? Sep 30 08:37:16 however that isn't Sep 30 08:37:44 * lcuk throws a pig @ lardman Sep 30 08:37:53 and a BBQ? Sep 30 08:38:01 RST38h: there is no osso-icons-default there :S Sep 30 08:38:10 could someone check if you have the package? Sep 30 08:38:20 macoute, it's in passworded repo Sep 30 08:38:20 how did you manage to remove it? Sep 30 08:38:21 heh Sep 30 08:38:26 it was called osso-icons-default or osso-default-icons. id go with the first one Sep 30 08:38:33 qwerty12: i didnt. i was upgrading Sep 30 08:38:47 Everyone has the package. Sep 30 08:38:48 Who's going to be able to dpkg-repack it though? Sep 30 08:39:03 qwerty12: its not available as a .deb? Sep 30 08:39:24 It comes by default on each tablet Sep 30 08:39:25 if you have downloaded it (or reinstall it) it should turn out to /var/cache/apt/archives, doesnt it+ Sep 30 08:39:33 You must have removed it or another repo is messing up your tablet Sep 30 08:39:48 theres no other repos :) Sep 30 08:39:56 and i havent removed it. Sep 30 08:40:02 but the nokias official ones Sep 30 08:40:12 If you know the password: http://repository.maemo.org/catalogue/updates/diablo/osso-icons-default_2.2.3_all.deb Sep 30 08:40:18 i do. thanks Sep 30 08:40:32 i dont remember them though, but ill dig it Sep 30 08:50:19 hm, anyone knows whether fbreader changed their repository? it 404's here, while the .install file on their site is still the same Sep 30 08:50:35 Doesn't really matter because fbreader is now in extras Sep 30 08:51:16 I thought fbreader moved into Extras? Sep 30 08:51:21 oh Sep 30 08:51:22 that might be it ;) Sep 30 08:51:34 give it a go, I just seem to remmber reading that Sep 30 08:51:39 * aquatix deletes the fbreader.org repository from his list Sep 30 08:55:17 :( Sep 30 08:59:21 ~lart ati. shit linux drivers. shit windows drivers. Sep 30 08:59:21 * infobot chops ati. shit linux drivers. shit windows drivers. in half with a free AOL CD Sep 30 09:03:00 aquatix, put the plug back in before we all drain away Sep 30 09:11:18 andre___, what a mess with the versioning. <_< Sep 30 09:11:57 yeah. maybe i should have waited 5min to add my last comment.... garrr Sep 30 09:12:02 i didn't had http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/ in mind Sep 30 09:12:23 I wonder if we should go to 2008-32 as version number for an ssu versoion ;) Sep 30 09:12:26 now shall i consider that URL also as "part of SDK"? :-P Sep 30 09:12:47 There's a branding issue in there somewhere. Sep 30 09:13:02 Maemo 4.1.1 != Maemo SDK 4.1.1 Sep 30 09:13:16 what about "4.1-Update2 (4.2008.36-5)"? ;-) Sep 30 09:13:22 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Sep 30 09:13:24 what a mess Sep 30 09:13:46 I think we should just blame timeless and run away. Sep 30 09:13:50 hehe Sep 30 09:14:00 He's not here to defend himself for a while anyway. ;) Sep 30 09:14:11 no, timeless is part of the good guys! :) Sep 30 09:14:32 i think I want to go with "4.1-Update1" instead of 4.1.1 in Bugzilla. The renaming would probably take about 10min Sep 30 09:14:33 All the more reason to sacrifice him to the bad guys. :P Sep 30 09:14:50 What about going with the build identifier? Sep 30 09:14:53 4.2008.36-5 Sep 30 09:15:12 which average reporter will understand that?! Sep 30 09:15:32 Which average reporter understands 4.1.2.2123.123123412341234 Sep 30 09:15:35 ? Sep 30 09:15:48 that's why i said "4.1-Update1" :) Sep 30 09:15:53 The 4.x.x numbers basically have zero correspondence to reality at this point. Sep 30 09:16:02 andre___, relative numbers aren't super useful either. Sep 30 09:16:22 * andre___ wonders what happens if nokia provides a flash image AND an SSU update.... sigh Sep 30 09:16:25 "OK, let's see. I've installed . . . 3 SSU updates, so this must be update3" Sep 30 09:16:34 argh, 3rd party software.... right Sep 30 09:16:59 We should use what About device shows? Sep 30 09:17:03 ^ Sep 30 09:17:12 I think that actually makes enough sense Sep 30 09:17:12 i need super brain power to solve this! Sep 30 09:17:18 No other way of easily identifying it. Sep 30 09:17:19 * andre___ gets a coffee Sep 30 09:17:31 We're asking them to provide the build string for the version field anyway. Sep 30 09:18:09 heh, right... Sep 30 09:18:09 They're definitely not getting 4.0/4.1/4.1.1/4.1.2 right now. Sep 30 09:18:20 but that brings up another problem Sep 30 09:18:32 wow that made a funny noise Sep 30 09:18:34 in bugzilla, you cannot arbitrary sort versions. Sep 30 09:18:44 andre___, you're kidding me, right? Sep 30 09:18:58 no. you can sort Target Milestones. you cannot sort versions. i know it's crazy Sep 30 09:19:16 * GeneralAntilles stabs his eyes out. Sep 30 09:19:20 so when 3.2009.45-1 comes out i have a problem Sep 30 09:19:38 Remotely patchable? :\ Sep 30 09:20:11 maybe there's a patch around, let me see... Sep 30 09:20:27 I can't imagine that we'd be the only people using Bugzilla with that issue. Sep 30 09:20:48 we're running a bugzilla 2. most folks out there are running bugzilla 3 Sep 30 09:20:55 Right Sep 30 09:21:30 maybe there's a patch for 3 that could be easily(TM) backported Sep 30 09:21:35 * andre___ queries mozilla bugzilla Sep 30 09:22:18 no. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65317 Sep 30 09:23:06 garr. problem, problem. Sep 30 09:24:07 meh Sep 30 09:26:05 andre___, 1.Nokiasux 2.Nokiasux 3.Nokiasux Sep 30 09:26:43 i beg to differ, young gentleman. it sometimes just takes a bit longer. ;-) Sep 30 09:27:13 Give it time, you'll be just as cynical and jaded as me soon enough. ;) Sep 30 09:27:41 dont be cynical, you can change the world one wiki page at a time Sep 30 09:27:47 yeah, probably :) Sep 30 09:28:32 bbl, im unpluggin vnc for the day Sep 30 09:28:55 lcuk_afk: cya Sep 30 09:31:19 Well, andre___, worse comes to worst we can just drop-in replace the strings for each version pretty easily, no? Sep 30 09:31:31 yupp Sep 30 09:32:53 It's gonna be more fun if MicroB, Modest and such end up separated from the OS proper. Sep 30 09:35:23 garr. i'm going to bring this up to the mailing list before changing it again and again. want more opinions. Sep 30 09:40:39 4.1-2 (4.2008.30-2) sounds workable to me. Sep 30 09:40:53 Upd2 or SSU2 or whatever are mostly just awkward. Sep 30 09:41:25 X-Fade, I think FBReader's repo is closed. Sep 30 09:41:59 GeneralAntilles: I don't know, I can still fetch the packages.gz file. Sep 30 09:42:04 Oh? Sep 30 09:42:16 Nevermind then. Sep 30 09:42:36 GeneralAntilles: http://www.fbreader.org/maemo/dists/chinook/user/binary-armel/Packages.gz Sep 30 09:43:00 403 for directory listings Sep 30 09:43:01 GeneralAntilles: But we have someone on the inside there, so don't worry about that one ;) Sep 30 09:43:23 GeneralAntilles: Yes, but that is just blocking listings. Sep 30 09:43:28 Right Sep 30 09:43:31 Threw me off. ;) Sep 30 09:45:20 I can still use a lot of help with: https://wiki.maemo.org/Reducing_number_of_external_repositories Sep 30 09:45:23 ;) Sep 30 09:45:52 "a lot" Sep 30 09:45:52 GeneralAntilles, "4.1-2 (4.2008.30-2)"? but that one was SSU1! ;-) Sep 30 09:45:53 Hehe Sep 30 09:46:11 * GeneralAntilles brain splodes. Sep 30 09:46:15 andre___, I'll leave it up to you. Sep 30 09:46:19 GeneralAntilles: We have a script for that, but didn't want to run it ;) Sep 30 09:46:33 I'd cross off rtcomm Sep 30 09:46:36 it's not going anywhere. Sep 30 09:47:31 GeneralAntilles: Last update, 11 days ago. Sep 30 09:47:48 GeneralAntilles: Beta-7 was released then. Sep 30 09:48:34 You can also put jott's new rotation support repo on that list if you want. Sep 30 09:48:39 That's not going anywhere, either, though. :P Sep 30 09:48:54 you guys really need a new server to maemo.org Sep 30 09:48:59 interested in buying one? :P Sep 30 09:49:06 renting, that is. Sep 30 09:49:08 macoute, the new servers are there. Sep 30 09:49:13 Waiting on DNS changeover. Sep 30 09:49:15 macoute: Do you have some 770 to spare ? Sep 30 09:49:37 X-Fade: why is that? :) no. Sep 30 09:49:51 macoute: We only use 770s of course ;) Sep 30 09:50:10 as your servers? nice, i guess :S Sep 30 09:50:11 AHA! It's been confirmed by an official. Sep 30 09:50:16 ;) Sep 30 09:50:27 qwerty12, old news. :P Sep 30 09:50:37 qwerty12: There was even an announcement that showed that. No news there ;) Sep 30 09:50:48 OMG Sep 30 09:50:49 * qwerty12 cries Sep 30 09:50:57 and you are not going to replace them with real hardware? Sep 30 09:51:10 X-Fade, are you just fetching the repos off gronmayer? Sep 30 09:51:10 macoute: N810s ;) Sep 30 09:51:24 X-Fade: thats propably the dummiest thing ive ever heard Sep 30 09:51:26 GeneralAntilles: Check the script in our svn. Sep 30 09:51:47 as a project its kinda nice but as the main servers for the whole maemo its more like a joke Sep 30 09:51:53 macoute: Man, you are believing things easily ;) Sep 30 09:51:57 macoute, wooooosh Sep 30 09:52:01 LMAO Sep 30 09:52:14 huh, i actually thought you were serious Sep 30 09:52:19 :) Sep 30 09:52:25 I'm not sure why that's sad Sep 30 09:52:28 but I'm sure that it is. Sep 30 09:53:03 but whats sad is that i believed it as your current servers are slow as a pair of 770's :) Sep 30 09:54:23 is your current apache built by yourselves? Sep 30 09:54:40 segfaulting apache is not a good thing :) Sep 30 09:55:14 so you should file a bug if you havent somehow screwed it up yourselves Sep 30 09:56:30 nice Sep 30 09:56:43 andre___, FIASCO images are always versioned release.year.buildweek-buildnumber Sep 30 09:56:57 are there any docs on proper modification of upstream deb packages? maintainer info, etc. Sep 30 09:57:58 and what should be done if no maemo-related modifications are required? is it still needed to specify myself as maintaiener? Sep 30 09:59:07 X-Fade, you using a template of some sort to contact repo owners? Sep 30 10:03:19 GeneralAntilles: I do a bit of copy/paste. But I also offer help and add specific things. Sep 30 10:04:09 btw. www.erepublik.com familiar to anyone? if interested in playing, msg me for an invite. :) Sep 30 10:04:32 Sounds like a good opportunity for delegation. Sep 30 10:05:17 GeneralAntilles: I guess I can add a template to the wiki ;) Sep 30 10:25:12 <_julian_> hi Sep 30 10:53:02 * aquatix wonders why his tablet didn't update everything Sep 30 10:53:15 and why the updates have disappeared from the appmanager since Sep 30 10:53:25 and apt-get dist-upgrade has been broken for a while Sep 30 10:53:27 meh :) Sep 30 10:55:28 it disabled your extras entry Sep 30 10:55:36 right? Sep 30 10:55:49 nah, it really broke something with me as well Sep 30 10:56:00 my appmanager didnt see the updates at all Sep 30 10:56:06 i used dist-upgrade Sep 30 10:57:48 well, your fault Sep 30 10:58:11 RST38h: i re-enabled that already Sep 30 10:58:28 but dist-upgrade fails here Sep 30 10:59:07 says: osso-af-startup: Depends: osso-af-utils (>= 1.16-1) but it is not going to be installed Sep 30 10:59:17 and depends: osso-core-config Sep 30 10:59:21 weird stuff Sep 30 10:59:25 don't use dist-upgrade Sep 30 10:59:27 i have osso-af-utils 1.17 Sep 30 10:59:33 us app manager to upgrade your system. Sep 30 10:59:34 myeah Sep 30 10:59:36 use Sep 30 10:59:37 i did Sep 30 10:59:42 with Update all Sep 30 10:59:46 but it didn't update all Sep 30 10:59:53 and now doesn't see anything anymore Sep 30 10:59:58 umgh Sep 30 11:00:11 how about apt-get upgrade ? Sep 30 11:00:27 but the system *is* a bit fucked when the potential for fuckup is so large with a dist-upgrade. Sep 30 11:00:32 or, rather, apt-get update and then apt-get upgrade Sep 30 11:01:11 Veggen: it is a non-standard distribution, so using these standard desktop tools is a bad idea Sep 30 11:01:20 Update the way Nokia tells youto Sep 30 11:01:42 RST38h: Well, yeah, but it's bad design from Nokias part not to be more careful :) Sep 30 11:02:05 granted, the every-app-its-own-repository has not helped. At all. Sep 30 11:02:33 using all the standard linux framework has never been their goal Sep 30 11:03:28 No, but it's still bad design :) Sep 30 11:03:33 they were simply adopting whatever linux they have got to an embedded devic Sep 30 11:03:57 making the device upgrading more foolproof *should* be a goal. Sep 30 11:04:04 well, that is what you get when designign business suit for a pidgeon and sewing it out of the stuff you picked form a dumpster Sep 30 11:04:21 Their initial upgrade method was "flash the whole firmware" Sep 30 11:04:28 apt-get upgrade doesn't have anything to install Sep 30 11:04:30 I know. Sep 30 11:04:34 I've been there too :) Sep 30 11:04:44 aquatix: I have got an idea Sep 30 11:05:00 aquatix: Your repo list is somehow fucked. Is it possible? Sep 30 11:05:05 So it's better now, but still not good enough for my complete satisfaction. Sep 30 11:05:07 of course Sep 30 11:05:15 * aquatix looks at /etc/apt/sources.list Sep 30 11:05:19 aquatix: Why not edit it ? Sep 30 11:05:39 erm Sep 30 11:05:42 hm Sep 30 11:05:48 no /etc/apt/sources.list? Sep 30 11:06:54 most repos are in files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ Sep 30 11:07:07 ah Sep 30 11:08:08 i wonder why the updates repository is set to diablo-2 :) Sep 30 11:08:49 because you update some stufF? Sep 30 11:08:55 * lcuk_work should never have removed vnc. dinnertimes are so boring Sep 30 11:09:03 hehehehe Sep 30 11:09:18 yeah, i updated some stuff, and apparently it changed from diablo-1 to -2 Sep 30 11:09:24 with -1 i see my updates again Sep 30 11:09:45 ~curse local testing and build system Sep 30 11:10:17 aquatix: One more problem resolved! Sep 30 11:10:19 * aquatix does an apt-get upgrade Sep 30 11:10:23 RST38h: yeah, thanks :) Sep 30 11:10:37 i didn't think it'd have changed the updates repository :/ Sep 30 11:10:53 aquatix, thank you for getting freenode back up and running :P Sep 30 11:11:03 lcuk_work: you're welcome ;) Sep 30 11:12:15 yay @ work wifi with 80KB/s Sep 30 11:22:04 there, updated :) Sep 30 11:22:07 thanks RST38h! Sep 30 11:22:11 * aquatix reboots Sep 30 11:26:18 aquatix: stop breaking the internet Sep 30 11:27:21 sorry Sep 30 11:27:30 with great power... Sep 30 11:27:46 come long disconnect times Sep 30 11:28:31 should i put my half eaten chicken and bacon club sandwich on ebay? or more importantly, what reserve should i put on it Sep 30 11:29:17 if you're able to teleport it here in the next few minutes, i'm willing to bid $1 Sep 30 11:29:25 that's about 0.40 EUR anyway Sep 30 11:29:45 no, its now worth €0.39 now Sep 30 11:29:45 aquatix: more like 0.6 methinks Sep 30 11:29:52 oh, hang on €0.38 Sep 30 11:30:02 gomiam: sorry, running joke ;) Sep 30 11:30:06 crap! its like pokemon ;) Sep 30 11:30:09 oh, sorry Sep 30 11:30:33 gomiam: i tend to wildly undervalue the dollar nowadays Sep 30 11:30:37 (actually, Yahoo says it's at 0,6973 right now) Sep 30 11:30:38 and sometimes i'm even spot-on ;) Sep 30 11:30:45 yeah, it's improved a bit Sep 30 11:30:55 aquatix: wildly undervalue the dollar? Is that actually possible? Sep 30 11:30:56 XD Sep 30 11:31:10 1 U.S. dollar = 0.696136443 Euros according to google Sep 30 11:31:14 heheheh Sep 30 11:31:34 they're printing them out like they are going out of season Sep 30 11:31:44 well, i tend to say things like, `hm, that gadget is $300 - that's like 40 EUR!' Sep 30 11:31:52 (see governmental rescue packages) Sep 30 11:32:00 heh, yeah Sep 30 11:32:39 problem is, there's still a good many people in US that believes that fixing the economy is not necessary. Sep 30 11:32:53 * aquatix reboots for the heck of it and puts his n810 on the charger Sep 30 11:33:08 * aquatix thinks fixing the US economy is not possible Sep 30 11:33:18 US is not immune to financial troubles, and things could get much worse for the country later. Sep 30 11:33:18 it'll be bankrupt soonish Sep 30 11:33:27 * gomiam agrees with aquatix (throwing good money after bad and all that) Sep 30 11:33:54 aquatix: nah, but they'll have to actually start producing goods and selling stuff again. Sep 30 11:33:57 gomiam: not to mention the ginormous amount of loans the country has Sep 30 11:34:04 Veggen: fair enough Sep 30 11:34:05 of course it wont be bankrupt, they will simply be renationalised ;) Sep 30 11:34:10 :) Sep 30 11:34:11 Problem is, if US goes, we all go. Sep 30 11:34:19 X-Fade: not sure abuot that Sep 30 11:34:22 Then let us go in style! Sep 30 11:34:23 it'll hurt for sure Sep 30 11:34:27 who can be so stupid to lend money to someone with no income, no job, not anything? Sep 30 11:34:28 power and money is in the east Sep 30 11:34:34 100% agree about hurting Sep 30 11:34:36 but i think asia and europe will do quite well Sep 30 11:34:37 Now, where is that doomsday weapon I have seen on Ebay? Sep 30 11:34:55 RST38h: my backyard, sorry Sep 30 11:35:00 aquatix: Our retirement funds have invested a lot in the us. If that goed, bye bye retirement etc etc. Sep 30 11:35:03 aquatix: not here in Spain we won't, we have our own self-cooked housing bubble Sep 30 11:35:17 X-Fade: yeah :/ Sep 30 11:35:17 aquatix: But surely, you will let me use it just once? =) Sep 30 11:35:18 s/goed/goes/ Sep 30 11:35:35 RST38h: sure, just don't point at me ;) Sep 30 11:35:42 local economies will resurface and life will continue Sep 30 11:35:58 Just about every country in the world has a housing bubble right now. They have all got easy money from the us to make loans Sep 30 11:36:04 communities :) Sep 30 11:36:15 we have damn expensive houses here too Sep 30 11:36:16 aquatix: I secretly hope it is omnidirectional =) Sep 30 11:36:19 lcuk_work: yeah, they will, but it seems the term "free market" should be changed to "win market": my wins are mine, my loses are socialized. Sep 30 11:36:38 gomiam: spain is bad indeed; too many new houses while noone is interested Sep 30 11:36:48 RST38h: that's the point ;) Sep 30 11:36:51 gomiam: yer, it shouldnt be the case though, and i tihnk thats why use has vetoed (for now) its bailout Sep 30 11:37:03 RST38h: just wait till i've finished my hypership Sep 30 11:37:04 aquatix: Niue? =) Sep 30 11:37:11 ghehe Sep 30 11:37:15 * aquatix wishes Sep 30 11:37:15 aquatix: the worst is that it was obvious even four years ago (but everybody laughed at me when I said it) Sep 30 11:37:22 RST38h: nah, i'm .nl Sep 30 11:37:53 aquatix: Then just bomb the dams - and suddenly there is no expensive housing Sep 30 11:37:56 gomiam: people have been speculating about the end of the world forever Sep 30 11:38:08 RST38h: just like it happened in No-Orleans ;-) Sep 30 11:38:10 RST38h: including mine Sep 30 11:38:17 RST38h: not a good idea ;) Sep 30 11:38:21 lcuk: Hey, you do not need the global end of the world, a local version will do you in just as good Sep 30 11:38:33 gomiam: New Orleans had no dams Sep 30 11:38:34 uh huh agreed Sep 30 11:38:37 lcuk_work: yes they have, but this has been ridiculously high for years. And now everybody whines. Sep 30 11:38:39 levies Sep 30 11:38:44 gomiam: I have been there a few years before it got offed Sep 30 11:38:51 RST38h: dams, levees, whatever keeps the water away D Sep 30 11:38:53 XD Sep 30 11:38:59 gomain, its the same everywhere - until it slaps you in the face its someone elses problem Sep 30 11:39:07 gomiam: the stuff it had would not hold a medium-sized puddle Sep 30 11:39:27 much like most US bank vaults Sep 30 11:39:31 hm, not that i really care, but the telepathy msn plugin doesn't work anymore now Sep 30 11:39:44 RST38h: ok, I'm not talking about the sturdity of the structures, but the results of their collapse ;-) Sep 30 11:39:45 network error Sep 30 11:39:45 aquatix: It is the first signed of the oncoming crisis Sep 30 11:39:48 what do you use telepathy for Sep 30 11:39:51 RST38h: :) Sep 30 11:39:58 aquatix: MSN will get bought by Huawei or something Sep 30 11:40:07 * RST38h has got a Huawei office next door Sep 30 11:40:08 lcuk_work: plugin for the IM stuff on my tablet Sep 30 11:40:22 so i can do other networks aside from xmpp Sep 30 11:40:26 It is so amusing to board a corporate bus with 100 chinese... Sep 30 11:40:41 fair enough Sep 30 11:40:42 In the middle of Moscow. Sep 30 11:40:46 aquatix: I'm more a Pidgin fan. Sep 30 11:40:47 RST38h, microsoft will get bought by Huawei? Sep 30 11:40:56 No need for gateways :-) Sep 30 11:41:01 johnx: Do you prefer Huawei or Steve Jobs? =) Sep 30 11:41:05 gomiam: i like the way it integrates Sep 30 11:41:16 gomiam: no, no gateways Sep 30 11:41:21 it uses native protocols Sep 30 11:41:24 RST38h, ms has piles of liquid capital, IIRC Sep 30 11:41:28 even uses pidgin's libpurple Sep 30 11:41:33 oh. Is telepathy something like libpurple? Sep 30 11:41:37 gomiam: through telepathy haze Sep 30 11:41:38 oh! Sep 30 11:41:42 I didn't know that Sep 30 11:41:43 XD Sep 30 11:41:49 telepathy is an abstraction layer Sep 30 11:42:00 johnx_: ms's liquid capital are bottles of scotch in ballmers drawer Sep 30 11:42:07 johnx: who cares, we are talking about the end of the world! Sep 30 11:42:11 gomiam: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ Sep 30 11:42:29 ok, ok. Anyway, since I always use pidgin on my other computers, I find it easier to keep with it (it's easy to carry configuration data too) Sep 30 11:42:33 lcuk_work: hm, maybe i *should* raid that office Sep 30 11:42:42 gomiam: fair enough Sep 30 11:42:44 RST38h, so in that case you'll be "rich" by owning cans of beans? Sep 30 11:42:59 anyway, must dash - cigs and tps reports await Sep 30 11:43:02 * lcuk_work groans Sep 30 11:43:28 johnx: something is telling me the gold will still sell.... Sep 30 11:43:39 meh, like cigarettes are more important than the end of the world Sep 30 11:43:58 reminds me, i should forfill my world domination before it's too late :/ Sep 30 11:44:09 Jaffa, that interface is lickable, that's just so sexy Sep 30 11:44:12 RST38h, it depends on how *&$%ed everything is. Sep 30 11:44:20 aquatix: of course they are. Chain-smokers might not get to see the end of the world ;-) Sep 30 11:44:24 johnx: also, on the bright side, all those Japanese otakus will finally get their dream Sep 30 11:44:44 johnx: especially if Kim decides to nuke Tokyo in the closing act Sep 30 11:45:00 RST38h, Japan has been constantly living in a "the end of the world could be tomorrow" scenario Sep 30 11:45:21 johnx: Given seismic activity and no resources, no doubt... Sep 30 11:45:35 RST38h, earthquaks, tsunamis, typhoons, food shortage, economic collapse have all been around the corner Sep 30 11:45:42 RST38h, it's business as usual in Japan... Sep 30 11:45:48 johnx: basically, I do not expect too many problems east of the Estonian border Sep 30 11:45:48 (must be a really big corner) Sep 30 11:46:11 johnx: all the way to US/Canada west coast =) Sep 30 11:46:39 RST38h, it could be a problem for Japanese banks to disentangle themselves from US banks, if things get worse Sep 30 11:46:51 well, they will take a loss Sep 30 11:47:30 Canon, Fuji, Panasonic, Sony will have to find different markets too Sep 30 11:47:35 heh...the yen is doing good though Sep 30 11:47:39 makes me happy Sep 30 11:48:14 USD is actually rising lately Sep 30 11:48:16 the other thing is that if the West stops having disposable income it will hurt the Japanese electronics companies Sep 30 11:48:20 johnx_: the japanese banks had some of the largest loans to Lehmanns Sep 30 11:48:49 lardman, yeah, shinsei is not too pleased with themselves right now Sep 30 11:49:10 johnx_: myeah, but frankly i don't see everyone stopping buying phones and such anytime soon Sep 30 11:49:16 it'll dwindle Sep 30 11:49:37 aquatix, will they buy expensive sony-stuff or cheap Chinese phones? Sep 30 11:49:52 * aquatix will buy sony-stuff Sep 30 11:49:53 expensive sony stuff is still made in China Sep 30 11:50:02 only less often :) Sep 30 11:50:07 And may get bought by Chinese in the end Sep 30 11:50:12 not that i buy too often already anyway Sep 30 11:50:27 * lardman makes a break for food while the rain holds off Sep 30 11:50:40 RST38h, and ford is made in Mexico, but the big part of the money flows into the US... Sep 30 11:50:53 johnx: Ford is made everywhere Sep 30 11:51:05 johnx: Especially considering that Mazda is Ford ;) Sep 30 11:51:08 RST38h, everywhere but the US... Sep 30 11:51:16 johnx: Not sure, maybe Sep 30 11:51:25 johnx: Here is it made near SpB Sep 30 11:51:27 RST38h, neither am I, but it sounded good Sep 30 11:51:41 johnx: Let's Ford avoid 60% import tax on foreign cars Sep 30 11:51:57 * johnx_ is off for a bit to pay bills, get some coffee Sep 30 11:53:05 I guess, given the nature of this channel, the right question should be "How is Finalnd doing?" =) Sep 30 11:53:51 Going to hell Sep 30 11:55:06 At least it will get a bit warmer there... Sep 30 12:01:23 nah, it's the barren wasteland version of hell Sep 30 12:01:31 ohm the nordic version Sep 30 12:01:39 the question is "Where should I move?" Sep 30 12:01:45 NZ? Sep 30 12:01:58 Well, if 50% chance of skin cancer is ok with you Sep 30 12:03:21 hm, anyone know where i can get python2.5-terra (0>= 0.1.8-maemo1) ? Sep 30 12:03:28 minus that first 0 Sep 30 12:03:43 now canola2 is not installabe Sep 30 12:04:06 aquatix, they're working on it. disable extras-devel and install beta9 Sep 30 12:04:08 for me canola2 is only not upgradable :) Sep 30 12:04:17 johnx_: aight Sep 30 12:04:21 i'll wait then Sep 30 12:04:35 Mek: yeah, i uninstalled to make room Sep 30 12:10:16 johnx_: are hildon apps able to run outside hildon btw? like, how do they react? Sep 30 12:10:51 Stskeeps, they don't love it, but there's a lot of individual pieces of "hildon" Sep 30 12:10:57 *nod* Sep 30 12:11:15 without the custom window manager, they have no menu Sep 30 12:11:25 without the hildon gtk theme they don't look right Sep 30 12:12:29 packages.tspre.org is up and running now btw, with keys and one mirror Sep 30 12:15:39 and i'm thinking to make "tablet specific" versions of some packages such as NM, like, network-manager-tablet which has Provides: network-manager so it doesn't conflict directly Sep 30 12:23:24 do you guys have adblock working with microb? Sep 30 12:24:28 yep Sep 30 12:24:34 it slows microb down though Sep 30 12:26:54 Hi All! Sep 30 12:29:28 let's hope the new total-magic javascript interpreter from mozilla project will make adblock faster :) Sep 30 12:31:02 AdBlock really has to be updated for Diablo Sep 30 12:31:06 So far it has not been Sep 30 12:34:30 RST38h, yeah, I had the feeling it was making matters worse than anything else Sep 30 12:44:03 hola Sep 30 12:58:53 odd, i installed all the updates, but uname -a still says i'm running 2.6.21-omap1 from Jul 16 (yes, i rebooted :) Sep 30 12:59:11 Linux Nokia-N810-23-14 kernel Sep 30 13:07:34 aquatix, even worse, I still have 2.6.21 from Jun 25th Sep 30 13:10:42 lardman|lunch: Pong. Sep 30 13:17:19 * Jaffa grumbles at people moaning at him for being accurate when they've failed in things *they themselves* have said are essential. Sep 30 13:22:47 Lo, have had N810Wimax (UK edition) on preorder from expansys for 2 months Sep 30 13:22:56 On phone to expansys now, and they say it'll never arrive :) lol Sep 30 13:23:06 Cyorxamp: oh? Sep 30 13:23:09 BUT! That a new Nokia tablet is about to be launched, on hold... getting details now Sep 30 13:24:08 Yeah, right. Sep 30 13:24:40 Jaffa: no, no. I can believe the "it'll never arrive" bit... Sep 30 13:25:07 Well, yes Sep 30 13:25:07 at expansys, sure. Sep 30 13:25:20 apparently 'wimax isn't popular in the UK' ... just had to educate the guy on that this is about to change Sep 30 13:25:42 Freedom4 to be in 15 major cities by end of year, roaming turned on february, BT likely to use it for rural areas to complete 21CN Sep 30 13:25:48 He's like... 'oh' Sep 30 13:25:50 god i hate warcraft Sep 30 13:27:00 lcuk2: don't play it, then? Sep 30 13:27:37 Has the n810WE shipped anywhere? Sep 30 13:28:59 ccooke i dont, but i hear about it all day every day \@/ Sep 30 13:29:39 lcuk2: well, look on the bright side. You're not paying for it... Sep 30 13:30:40 in a way i am :) Sep 30 13:31:01 in the time you listen to the poor addicts? Sep 30 13:33:31 Apparently the new Nokia tablet will have Wimax Sep 30 13:33:48 finished for 6 months from now, on shelves in a year Sep 30 13:33:52 old news though Sep 30 13:33:52 will target both UK and US markets Sep 30 13:33:56 Cyorxamp: Obviously the sales person at the other side is clueless. Sep 30 13:33:59 wonder when we get a tablet with LTE Sep 30 13:34:01 probably Sep 30 13:34:12 Apparently 4 (including me) have preordered this UK N810WE :P Sep 30 13:34:15 FOUR! :( Sep 30 13:34:15 aquatix: Less Than or Equal? Sep 30 13:34:25 he is seeing what he can do to 'aquire' one Sep 30 13:34:26 Cyorxamp: not a surprise, to be honest Sep 30 13:34:28 I think LTE is going to be more widely spread than wimax Sep 30 13:34:31 aquatix: I think we'll get 3G before 4G Sep 30 13:34:33 ccooke: long term evolution Sep 30 13:34:40 lardman: yeah, or that :) Sep 30 13:34:50 Oh I'm set for 3G with a HSDPA E51 phone, could go for a N810 right now Sep 30 13:34:51 ccooke: 4G technique Sep 30 13:35:04 but I want to be ready for Wimax, Wimax launches in this city late this year, early next Sep 30 13:35:07 Cyorxamp: N810 is awesome as-is :) Sep 30 13:35:08 people need to wake the fuck up! Sep 30 13:35:11 ah Sep 30 13:35:56 Cyorxamp: like it or not... there just isn't enough wimax in the UK to make people interested. So you have an absolutely tiny market for such devices, and the n810we is a tiny fraction of *that*... Sep 30 13:36:16 yes but there will be market, soon - in the works - ;) Sep 30 13:36:24 I do believe wimax is going to be a big flop anyhow Sep 30 13:36:28 and I'm impatient :) Sep 30 13:37:01 I think WiMax is going to be the final hit, WiMax + VDSL/Cable = Cheapr broadband for everyone/everywhere Sep 30 13:37:03 I do wonder if nokia will scrap the n810we entirely, though Sep 30 13:37:08 as well as VoIP for all Sep 30 13:37:41 the only way to get wimax widely accepted is by hitting hard on one occasion. It's not enough of a revolution, because at this point, from my contacts at ISPs and stuff, WiMax is not going to bring cheap wireless broadband. Because the infrastructure is going to be sooo expensive, and there are going to be amazing hickups Sep 30 13:37:43 wonder when they'll have a big wimax network here in the netherlands Sep 30 13:37:52 Cyorxamp: It's not fast enough, it's not ubiquitous enough and (for voip) it can't do emergency calls. Sep 30 13:38:00 seems a company in belgium is planning to do a belgium-wide one Sep 30 13:38:03 in other words, ISPs are going to have you pay premium price, and that's just not good enough Sep 30 13:38:11 aquatix: Well, we have it in Amsterdam. A bit. ;) Sep 30 13:38:21 X-Fade: yeah, a bit Sep 30 13:38:23 BT are planning a country wide one Sep 30 13:38:34 The only way to get WiMax going is by hitting during one single event, somewhere in the world. And for me, that's the 2012 olympics Sep 30 13:38:51 if they miss that, wimax is deadborn Sep 30 13:39:00 i think they should focus on LTE Sep 30 13:39:01 Cyorxamp: and, six months or so after it's *working*, I'd expect to see dedicated wimax devices. But the first generation of users will mostly be laptops with cards. Sep 30 13:39:38 WiMAX vs LTS; is this an ISP vs Telco war too? Sep 30 13:39:39 bah! I did say I was impatient Sep 30 13:39:55 Telco's are dead Sep 30 13:40:03 BT is becoming a networking company, period. Sep 30 13:40:06 not if they can push LTE though Sep 30 13:40:18 through where? Sep 30 13:40:18 Telco as in mobile phones I was thinking Sep 30 13:40:22 lardman: hm, good point Sep 30 13:40:54 The average price we're going to pay for wimax is what... 50quid something for starters? Might go down to 30quid, but that's where it's going to stay. And telco + ISP have already squeezed a whole lot of budget out of families, budget which wasn't required 15 years ago. I don't know if 30 extra quid is going to cut it for the average family Sep 30 13:41:22 atm I'd have to pay ~£5/month for data Sep 30 13:41:38 so wimax would beat that, assuming it has coverage Sep 30 13:41:45 crashanddie, in Milton Keynes its £13 ($25) a month for a 2mbps connection Sep 30 13:41:49 as cheap as ADSL Sep 30 13:41:57 crashanddie: Most people have one internet plan and a laptop. The internet plan can be replaced by WiMax and run on the laptop. Sep 30 13:42:11 Cyorxamp: w/o download limits? :P Sep 30 13:42:13 15 years ago, you had one phone line. 30 quid a month. These days, the average family has 4 or 5 cell phones, + internet. That's an amazing budget to get people invest yet some more Sep 30 13:42:13 * lardman pays ~£20/month for broadband + phone line iirc Sep 30 13:42:18 AStorm, exactly Sep 30 13:42:21 what upload? Sep 30 13:42:24 Wimax is suffering from ANTI-HYPE Sep 30 13:42:27 Nothing more Sep 30 13:42:28 Cyorxamp: ... wait, you didn't think BT were a network company? wow. Sep 30 13:42:37 Cyorxamp: lots of hype but no delivery Sep 30 13:42:40 well, HSPA is better Sep 30 13:42:53 ccooke, No I already know they are, My job is entirely dependant on 21CN Sep 30 13:42:55 better range, better access Sep 30 13:42:56 I'm looking forward to HSPA Sep 30 13:43:20 but currently expensive (e.g. 25$ for 1GB data = outrage) Sep 30 13:43:22 we already have HSPA here Sep 30 13:43:43 but HSPA still needs a stupid sim card, wimax is just get the gear, get your username Sep 30 13:43:48 AStorm: hspa can also be done for ~£5/month Sep 30 13:44:00 Cyorxamp: HSDPA? Sep 30 13:44:06 lardman: not in this country (it's 60 PLN ;P) Sep 30 13:44:13 aquarius-, exactly Sep 30 13:44:23 AStorm: fair enough Sep 30 13:44:24 LTE basically is the successor to HSDPA Sep 30 13:44:35 so is Wimax :P Sep 30 13:44:38 aquarius-: HSDPA is the download Sep 30 13:44:44 HSUPA is the fast upload Sep 30 13:44:44 Cyorxamp: technically ;) Sep 30 13:44:46 Cyorxamp, 2Mbit is BULLSHIT. Horsecrap. I used to pay 30euros (25quid) for 100Mbit download and 50Mbit upload. Plus I had amazing services. I don't care so much about the amount I can download, I just care for the service that comes with it. And when I say "I", I'm talking on behalf of general consumer joe Sep 30 13:44:49 combined, you get HSPA ;P Sep 30 13:44:52 AStorm: ah yeah :) Sep 30 13:45:27 crashanddie, all I'm saying is there no silly £50 minimum attached to wimax - today Sep 30 13:45:42 My money is on a GSM and SIM free future Sep 30 13:45:45 Yeah, we'll see about that ;) Sep 30 13:45:52 Just pluck broadband out of the air Sep 30 13:45:54 what do you have against SIM? Sep 30 13:45:56 AStorm: i saw them both and as i see `HSDPA' advertised as UMTS upgrade, i thought it was plain HSDPA they are providing, but of course it's just two protocols Sep 30 13:46:00 Cyorxamp: who pays and how? Sep 30 13:46:02 Cyorxamp: you'd still need to pay an ISP though Sep 30 13:46:14 AStorm, you have to take it with you, so you can only have 1 device using it Sep 30 13:46:16 aquatix: because HSUPA is more expensive Sep 30 13:46:27 Cyorxamp: ah that, indeed Sep 30 13:46:36 but then, you want a cellphone on you all the time anyway Sep 30 13:46:42 Cyorxamp, AStorm: please be careful when using completion Sep 30 13:46:45 Cyorxamp: you get multiple sims on the same account. Sep 30 13:46:45 ccooke, Freedom4 run the current wimax system in the UK, BT have their own plans for later, I think the Isle of Man run a system too Sep 30 13:47:03 aquatix: heh, sorry Sep 30 13:47:06 argh Sep 30 13:47:09 LOL, again :) Sep 30 13:47:11 aquarius-: ^ Sep 30 13:47:16 i see :) Sep 30 13:47:23 Actually, anyone like betting? Sep 30 13:47:23 AStorm: :P Sep 30 13:47:23 ccooke, still need multiple stupid numbers tho - telephone numbers are OLD Sep 30 13:47:24 it's XChat's fault for not having MRU tabcomplete Sep 30 13:47:28 yes, but how do you *pay*. What is the mechanism of tying a user to an ISP? Sep 30 13:47:49 ccooke: login and pass Sep 30 13:47:51 Cyorxamp: they're equivalent to MAC addresses, though ;-) Sep 30 13:48:01 pluck broadband out of the air with a username/password (like a wifi hotspot) and then get called using your SIP URI Sep 30 13:48:03 AStorm: Okay, then. Who owns the common infrastructure? Sep 30 13:48:13 your ISPs Sep 30 13:48:21 ENUM anyone? :) Sep 30 13:48:26 ENUM++ Sep 30 13:48:27 You have to bear in mind ENUM launches this week in the UK, and by 2011 there will no analogue phone lines Sep 30 13:48:41 feh, analogue phone lines... Sep 30 13:48:47 * aquatix has voip at home Sep 30 13:48:52 over adsl Sep 30 13:48:54 oh, it'll take some 10 more years for that to get into this country Sep 30 13:48:59 uses exclusively SIP here Sep 30 13:49:00 AStorm: Collectively? As in: I want to connect to ISP foo, you want to connect to ISP bar. Who arbitrates where my connection/login details go to? Sep 30 13:49:02 WiMax + VoIP = Death to normal GSM phones Sep 30 13:49:11 All hail the Nokia tablet with wimazx Sep 30 13:49:18 Cyorxamp: you need to add location support there. Sep 30 13:49:18 heh...they'll still emulate analog phone lines for years at various points Sep 30 13:49:22 Cyorxamp: and interoperability? Sep 30 13:49:30 otherwise there is *no* hope of you ever replacing a normal phone. Sep 30 13:49:33 i'd like to call my grandma now and then ;) Sep 30 13:49:39 aquarius-, wimax is a standard - revised many times, but finally finalised Sep 30 13:49:42 Cyorxamp: WiMax is local Sep 30 13:49:47 Wimax can roam Sep 30 13:49:49 like GSM Sep 30 13:49:51 to have global wimax, you need huge infrastructure Sep 30 13:49:57 GSM has that already Sep 30 13:49:57 Indeedy, just like GSM Sep 30 13:50:01 bollox to GSM Sep 30 13:50:04 :D Sep 30 13:50:12 the future is devices with multiple radios... Sep 30 13:50:19 People who believe wimax is going to replace GSM in the near future are idiots Sep 30 13:50:19 no, because that eats power Sep 30 13:50:28 AStorm, not when the radio is off... Sep 30 13:50:29 well I'm ready for that too... my nokia can be HSDPA and Wimax ready :P Sep 30 13:50:34 afaik, what you are really interested in is the cell size Sep 30 13:50:36 johnx_: hmm, well ;P Sep 30 13:50:42 And people who believe we're going to get decent coverage from WiMax in the near future are double that idiots Sep 30 13:50:44 and cell size is different for different GSM frequencies Sep 30 13:50:47 crashanddie, not _near_ future, but eventually Sep 30 13:50:53 wimax cells are pretty small though, right? Sep 30 13:50:55 crashanddie: indeed Sep 30 13:51:01 RST38h: no, like, city-sized Sep 30 13:51:04 RST38h: no Sep 30 13:51:11 quite large even Sep 30 13:51:11 they're large if speed is low Sep 30 13:51:15 compared to gsm Sep 30 13:51:15 small if speed is high Sep 30 13:51:19 Cyorxamp, yeah, and eventually, we'll have a cancer-free world, and peace everywhere on earth Sep 30 13:51:30 ah Sep 30 13:51:30 crashanddie: if humankind has died out ;) Sep 30 13:51:33 well I have to go eat now Sep 30 13:51:38 Cyorxamp: enjoy Sep 30 13:51:39 we'll wait and see :) Sep 30 13:51:45 animals and plants also have cancers Sep 30 13:51:47 cancer-free? you can't have that due to biology Sep 30 13:51:50 wimax eats a lot more battery than gsm Sep 30 13:52:14 AStorm: I think they call humanity a cancer Sep 30 13:52:21 aquatix, gsm base with on-demand wimax? Sep 30 13:52:23 AStorm: you can to within experimental error. You just kill everyone before they reach about 25... Sep 30 13:52:24 Something I can't really argue against... Sep 30 13:52:25 aquatix: due to low frequency used, more power is needed Sep 30 13:52:40 ccooke: wrong! :> Sep 30 13:52:46 ccooke: ooh, children of the corn :) Sep 30 13:53:02 AStorm: well, go on and tell me why :-) Sep 30 13:53:12 AStorm, wimax is higher frequency than most gsm bands... Sep 30 13:53:15 ccooke: because you still have inherited ones Sep 30 13:53:23 johnx_: wasn't it 700 MHz? Sep 30 13:53:24 ccooke: however, even kids get cancer, leukemia and such :( Sep 30 13:53:35 where GSM is 900 lowest? Sep 30 13:53:37 aquatix: "within experimental error", you may note ;-) Sep 30 13:53:44 AStorm, 2.4GHz, 2.5Ghz and 3.5GHz, IIRC Sep 30 13:53:50 johnx_: hmm Sep 30 13:53:51 the 700MHz band is something else... Sep 30 13:53:55 GSM starts at 450MHz Sep 30 13:54:03 ah, so it's microwave Sep 30 13:54:06 There is no uniform global licensed spectrum for WiMAX, although the WiMAX Forum has published three licensed spectrum profiles: 2.3 GHz, 2.5 GHz and 3.5 GHz Sep 30 13:54:08 RST38h, who uses 450MHz? Sep 30 13:54:09 thus the high energy needed ;P Sep 30 13:54:10 ^ wikipedia Sep 30 13:54:20 johnx: Siberia Sep 30 13:54:26 it's absorbed by water Sep 30 13:54:27 johnx: Not a lot of operators but some Sep 30 13:54:30 AStorm: What do you mean by "inheritable cancer"? Sep 30 13:54:38 ccooke: there are many, heh Sep 30 13:54:40 RST38h, I'm just thinking of the "big 4" in "quadband gsm" Sep 30 13:54:57 I've heard of *infectious* cancer, which is a nasty little thought, but not ineritable Sep 30 13:54:57 I mean, genetic diseases predisposing to juvenile cancers, use the damn google ;P Sep 30 13:55:06 god damn it, I've been trying to find a word for nearly 3 minutes Sep 30 13:55:12 crashanddie: which? Sep 30 13:55:13 johnx_: you found some glorious solution to gksu/gksudo and on screen keyboards yet? Sep 30 13:55:16 AStorm: ahhh! Now that I know about. Sep 30 13:55:18 aquatix, heh... Sep 30 13:55:18 johnx: Those are 850, 900, 1800, 1900 Sep 30 13:55:29 aquatix, a world that can never exist Sep 30 13:55:34 and in EU, 900 is used Sep 30 13:55:36 johnx: But when you need REALLY big cells, you have to go with 450 Sep 30 13:55:36 utopia? Sep 30 13:55:40 aquatix, cheers xD Sep 30 13:55:45 \o/ Sep 30 13:55:53 utopia is an ideal world Sep 30 13:55:55 RST38h: but no phones support it, so no one does that Sep 30 13:56:12 AStorm: There are phones that support it Sep 30 13:56:15 Stskeeps, no such luck Sep 30 13:56:17 minority Sep 30 13:56:18 well, it's not relevant anymore, now Sep 30 13:56:19 johnx_: alright Sep 30 13:56:32 AStorm: You probably won't like using one, but they exist Sep 30 13:56:42 uberold? Sep 30 13:56:48 no, just dumb Sep 30 13:56:58 example Sep 30 13:57:19 a moment Sep 30 13:57:26 (anyway, cells here don't support 450 MHz) Sep 30 13:57:39 johnx_: i'm thinking to try deblet on myself as i'm not satisfied with diablo :P Sep 30 13:57:51 and see what problems arise Sep 30 13:58:15 pity you can't have 3G+ over bluetooth really Sep 30 13:58:18 BT is slow ;P Sep 30 13:58:36 AStorm: As I said, they are deployed where you can't place too many transceivers Sep 30 13:58:50 == nowhere Sep 30 13:58:52 AStorm, isn't BT2+EDR fast enough to not be a bottleneck? Sep 30 13:59:10 hmm, well, does it do 15 Mbit? Sep 30 13:59:15 AStorm: http://www.macom.com/Markets/Cellular/pdf/Cellular_GSM_Handset.pdf Sep 30 14:01:31 RST38h: these are for special applications Sep 30 14:01:42 I've yet to see a 450 MHz cell in Europe Sep 30 14:01:53 AStorm: But long distance cell service in the tundra IS a special application don't you think? Sep 30 14:02:19 yes :> Sep 30 14:03:10 It's a long time since I saw a 450MHz cellphone :) Sep 30 14:06:21 hmmh, my ISPs DNS server just died Sep 30 14:06:43 AStorm: Opendns? Sep 30 14:09:34 nah, DNS is alive ;P Sep 30 14:12:51 RST38h: better get iridium for that ;) Sep 30 14:16:10 opera dns caching... :/ Sep 30 14:21:43 He said that so far, in the eyes of the world, the pirates had been misunderstood. We dont consider ourselves sea bandits, he said. We consider sea bandits those who illegally fish in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas. We are simply patrolling our seas. Think of us like a coast guard. Sep 30 14:25:40 what's the best way to gain root access on an 810 w/diablo Sep 30 14:26:14 install rootsh from extras Sep 30 14:26:22 thanks! Sep 30 14:35:03 hey folks Sep 30 14:36:51 hi Woolly-Work Sep 30 14:37:08 how's everyone today? Sep 30 14:38:47 andre___: got your #2677 updates, want to share what NB#83819 says? ;-) Sep 30 14:39:47 Jaffa, it says "exactly the other way round is a bug" :-) Sep 30 14:40:09 pressing esc should bring back from fullscreen to normal view, and not close the window Sep 30 14:40:19 Well, that's just bollocks :) Sep 30 14:40:24 sure :-) Sep 30 14:40:28 Or, is the "UI Specification" on the side of insanity? ;-) Sep 30 14:42:07 Jaffa, I often have the feeling that it is. :-P Sep 30 14:42:50 anyone using X forwarding with scratchbox? Sep 30 14:43:30 Jaffa, sorry for behaving supersecret - I've posted the content now in 2677 Sep 30 14:44:05 Thanks Sep 30 14:44:11 * Jaffa prepares a rant :) Sep 30 14:55:20 andre: The pressing esc thing is kind of senseless Sep 30 14:55:32 After all there is a separate button to switch between window and full screen Sep 30 14:56:15 RST38h, i know that button exists. but if you press Esc you'd expect the window to close. At least I do :) Sep 30 14:56:19 * aquatix would expect the window to close Sep 30 14:56:47 and the main window to remain as-is, like in the bug comment Sep 30 14:57:21 andre: Actually I do close the window on ESC =) Sep 30 14:57:46 But I do not think the main window should remain as is Sep 30 14:59:27 RST38h: yes, agreed - we've got a fullscreen toggle button, there's no need to dual-purpose escape. Sep 30 14:59:33 andre: I think the problem here is that windows inside an app are allowed to have different window/fullscreen status Sep 30 14:59:54 andre: In fact, when you press FullScreen button, all the app windows should switch to full screen, retaining relative order Sep 30 15:00:17 Then, closing the topmost window with ESC will reveal the one below it, without changing fullscreen to window Sep 30 15:06:09 GeneralAntilles: ping Sep 30 16:24:55 qwerty12: you know much about wlan-cal? Sep 30 16:25:08 Stskeeps, not much Sep 30 16:25:52 i'm just wondering why my in-deblet wlan-call fails.. it does have all the stuff needed Sep 30 16:26:24 Are you running it from initfs chroot? Sep 30 16:28:15 mmmm Sep 30 16:28:31 updated microb displays tiddlywiki properly Sep 30 16:28:35 that's a great thing. Sep 30 16:32:32 qwerty12: yeah Sep 30 16:46:56 whats tiddlywiki? Sep 30 16:47:53 Stskeeps, does debian play with /dev/mtd1 in any way? Sep 30 16:48:02 qwerty12: not in any way at all Sep 30 16:48:39 hmm Sep 30 16:48:48 there's ofcourse the obscure fsck bug i had with udev and rootfs.. Sep 30 16:48:53 which may apply to mtd1 too Sep 30 16:49:02 * Stskeeps straces dsme Sep 30 16:49:06 how come you are trying to run wlan-cal now? Sep 30 16:49:44 a hunch regarding the fact that the signal strengths and so on are low Sep 30 16:49:49 it's because gain and shit isn't set Sep 30 16:49:56 Ah Sep 30 16:50:22 Is cx3110x in memory? Sep 30 16:50:33 insmod'ed yeah Sep 30 16:50:37 cal-tool gives errors too Sep 30 16:50:41 moontiger, http://www.tiddlywiki.com - self-contained, js-based wiki Sep 30 16:51:19 Stskeeps, sounds like generic cal error then. Do you have libcal in /usr/lib/dsme (something like that) Sep 30 16:51:24 yeah Sep 30 16:51:58 * yacoob wants gears for new microb Sep 30 16:53:41 ah. Sep 30 16:53:44 found problem Sep 30 16:53:57 cal.mtd1.lock Sep 30 16:54:38 interesting thnx :) Sep 30 16:54:57 yacoob, scratchbox :P Sep 30 16:57:12 qwerty12, yeah, I just can't bring myself to do it, I find whining much much easier 8) Sep 30 16:57:52 hehe, I'd offer but ndiswrapper is pissing me off the point that I'm actually, honestly enjoying using vista Sep 30 16:58:28 that's it. i'm convinced. Sep 30 16:58:35 * Mousey switches to windows Sep 30 16:58:40 lol Sep 30 16:59:17 qwerty12: get decent hardware? ;) Sep 30 16:59:31 qwerty12, aaah memories of the time when I bought cheap hardware and then tried to make it work with linux Sep 30 16:59:42 s/time/years/g Sep 30 16:59:42 johnx_ meant: qwerty12, aaah memories of the years when I bought cheap hardware and then tried to make it work with linux Sep 30 17:00:32 aquatix, can't be bothered in all honesty. I actually like this wireless stick. I'm more annoyed that the ti wlan oss driver doesn't support my stick despite having same chipset Sep 30 17:00:37 johnx_, :) Sep 30 17:00:49 * qwerty12 is a cheap shit. I admit. Sep 30 17:01:13 qwerty12, I used to be, until finally my time > my money Sep 30 17:01:39 give it a couple years, it'll happen to you, too :) Sep 30 17:01:51 * aquatix runs to the store for some additional rice Sep 30 17:02:02 Hehe, tonight, I'm worrying about whether to get chicken wings or a burger :P Sep 30 17:02:07 damn stuff is all gone and i'm hungry Sep 30 17:02:35 aquatix, you need to buy bigger bags :) Sep 30 17:03:13 Lol, come East London and ask any of us Asians here :P Sep 30 17:03:54 * qwerty12 parents keep a large tub of rice under the stairs :P Sep 30 17:04:04 Shame I don't like rice >.< Sep 30 17:04:04 I've got 10kg next to me right now :) Sep 30 17:04:19 damn good thing I don't mind rice :) Sep 30 17:04:26 johnx_: think i've solved the wlan MAC problem + the signal strength stuff now :) Sep 30 17:04:38 Stskeeps, woo! Sep 30 17:04:55 johnx_: ill back up your formula, when my time > my money, price of my hw > price of the cheapest hw :) Sep 30 17:05:42 Stskeeps, ah, I'll poke at hildon-input-method in sawfish. I have some time right now :) Sep 30 17:07:02 macoute, actually it's often not much more expensive. Sometimes a $12 bt dongle instead of an $8 bt dongle. It just means research before buying :) Sep 30 17:11:05 thats true Sep 30 17:11:54 and its kinda sad too :) it was and is fun to make a useless piece of shit turn out almost as good as 2 times more expensive dongle :) Sep 30 17:12:32 right, but now when I do that I make sure it's on purpose :) Sep 30 17:13:04 "this might not work but it will be fun to mess with" vs "I need this to work NOW!" Sep 30 17:13:14 : Sep 30 17:13:23 my n800 is the latter and my old zaurus is the former :) Sep 30 17:18:30 johnx_: they run out eventually anyway Sep 30 17:19:00 aquatix, I guess I don't eat enough :) Sep 30 17:19:07 johnx_: btw, wget http://packages.tspre.org/repo.key, apt-key add repo.key, and change repo in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/deblet.list (i think) to packages.tspre.org instead Sep 30 17:19:10 johnx_: :) Sep 30 17:19:25 Stskeeps, will do Sep 30 17:19:33 anybody knows how to make the virtual keyboard (if its a n800, or if the real keyboard is not out) appear in gtk ? Sep 30 17:22:37 mmmm zaurus Sep 30 17:22:57 maybe after the sunray and qube, ill find something to do with that Sep 30 17:23:00 Luria, nice formfactor...but not quite fast enough :/ Sep 30 17:23:16 i know, my 5600 is over there Sep 30 17:23:21 actually, I want to put my 5500 somewhere as a light webserver or something Sep 30 17:23:31 something wrong with the charging circuit Sep 30 17:23:40 sad :( Sep 30 17:23:52 how many light LAMPs do geeks need Sep 30 17:24:15 my 5500's battery is shot. it can't be much else Sep 30 17:25:12 Luria: the more the merrier Sep 30 17:25:51 johnx_: package updates in repo now, so just update and apt-get dist-upgrade to get it .. if it complains about update-rc.d, rm /etc/init.d/tablet-wireless Sep 30 17:25:54 Products evolve until they can play mp3s, send email, and run linux. then they die and become light web servers. Sep 30 17:26:28 Then the page gets /.'ed. Sep 30 17:28:55 Luria, it's the main sequence of gadgets :) Sep 30 17:29:12 yeah Sep 30 17:30:17 there's no nx client for maemo, right? Sep 30 17:31:11 I thought there was at some point Sep 30 17:31:22 I've seen it for years and never once actually got it working on anything :/ Sep 30 17:31:45 i wish nx were a bit more oss friendly for porting sake Sep 30 17:32:22 sad that my favorite remote protocols are rdp and nx Sep 30 17:32:56 nx is open, isn't it? Sep 30 17:33:02 besides, it's just compressed X...? Sep 30 17:33:04 sorta Sep 30 17:33:11 compressed x over ssh Sep 30 17:33:30 there arent any good free clients Sep 30 17:33:43 freenx is a fine server tho Sep 30 17:34:14 okay, network-manager is a bit disturbd Sep 30 17:34:18 johnx_: ping :) Sep 30 17:34:26 X-Fade: ping Sep 30 17:34:30 it's showing me (after a reboot), combined local APs and uni ones (i'm not at uni..) Sep 30 17:34:34 PONG Sep 30 17:34:41 rm_you, poke! Sep 30 17:34:47 johnx_: ^_^ Sep 30 17:35:01 rm_you, just preordered a pandora :) Sep 30 17:35:05 :) Sep 30 17:35:20 I haven't been working much so I can't afford gadgets >_> Sep 30 17:35:43 * lcuk drools in the wrong chan Sep 30 17:35:57 rm_you, It's technically a combined early/late birthday present from a lot of people :) Sep 30 17:36:10 :) Sep 30 17:36:27 you're going to be back for XMas, yes? Sep 30 17:36:46 rm_you, yup. I'll let you see it. :) Sep 30 17:36:49 ^_^ Sep 30 17:37:04 more interested in hanging out in general, it's been too long Sep 30 17:37:18 definitely Sep 30 17:37:31 it'll be nice to be back *sighs* Sep 30 17:48:19 hi Sep 30 17:49:09 anyone using soft pover off with the new os update? Sep 30 18:04:37 X-Fade, pong. Sep 30 18:04:40 ion_cu_vaca, still broken. Sep 30 18:08:06 well Sep 30 18:08:27 itdebian ..er..deblet.. or whatever they call it is a little better now Sep 30 18:08:32 still wish it had bt support Sep 30 18:08:40 well.. bt phone support Sep 30 18:08:47 it does, if you hack it a bit :P Sep 30 18:08:51 look in deblet hack challenges Sep 30 18:09:21 wvdial is broken so it complicates stuff on armel Sep 30 18:09:53 do we really need wvdial? Sep 30 18:10:20 X-Fade, still around mate? Sep 30 18:11:40 johnx_: most GUIs use it Sep 30 18:12:10 Stskeeps, ah, I thought it was a real blocker, not just an ease of use thing Sep 30 18:12:49 heh Sep 30 18:13:06 it is a wrapper really Sep 30 18:13:07 how do i get rid of that dock on the left? Sep 30 18:13:15 that thing seems rather pointless and takes up too much space Sep 30 18:13:20 which env are you on? Sep 30 18:13:24 beta3 Sep 30 18:13:32 tap+hold to move it Sep 30 18:13:37 okay, that's the old version :P Sep 30 18:13:42 should pop up a menu with options Sep 30 18:13:42 oh man Sep 30 18:13:46 you kidding me? :) Sep 30 18:13:53 was it a tar.gz? :P Sep 30 18:13:54 i just finished installing it heh Sep 30 18:13:59 oh noes! Sep 30 18:13:59 tar.bz2 Sep 30 18:14:03 yup, old version Sep 30 18:14:08 yeah, I did that a long time ago Sep 30 18:14:08 well.. i didn't see the new version on the site Sep 30 18:14:09 pre-deblet Sep 30 18:14:19 damn Sep 30 18:14:20 Macer: i'd wait some days, the new installer is a lot better :P Sep 30 18:14:31 Macer, play for now but don't get attached :) Sep 30 18:14:45 heh Sep 30 18:14:52 i installed it on a 4G sd i had lying around Sep 30 18:15:18 GeneralAntilles, when in soft poweroff, my led blinks, any idea why? Sep 30 18:15:36 ion_cu_vaca, check the Display settings in control panel. Sep 30 18:15:44 hm Sep 30 18:15:49 where are you guys keeping the newer stuff? Sep 30 18:15:57 all the checkboxes are unchecked Sep 30 18:16:03 internet tablet kind of sends you to your old site Sep 30 18:16:04 and still blinks Sep 30 18:16:22 ion_cu_vaca, I don't know. Sep 30 18:16:25 Soft poweroff is broken. Sep 30 18:16:25 Macer: trac.tspre.org Sep 30 18:16:30 Macer: trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet Sep 30 18:16:43 once the bt phone stuff works then this will be perfect Sep 30 18:16:46 :) Sep 30 18:17:04 did you guys ever figure out how to get that address bar stuff in epiphany turned off? Sep 30 18:17:34 Macer, yeah, switched to midori :) Sep 30 18:17:41 damn Sep 30 18:17:50 i must be on last year's stuff huh? :) Sep 30 18:18:04 what engine does midori use? Sep 30 18:18:09 webkit Sep 30 18:18:13 epiphany worked well with my zimbra server Sep 30 18:18:16 nah, just a couple months ago. but Stskeeps has been doing insane amounts of work on this Sep 30 18:18:25 well, there's ff3 as well aka iceweasel Sep 30 18:18:30 could do anything on it... the browser osso has doesn't work well Sep 30 18:18:44 it is awesome Sep 30 18:18:45 :) Sep 30 18:19:01 i wish i had an n800 for the qwerty Sep 30 18:19:10 n810 i mean Sep 30 18:19:45 i was going to buy one but flinched because there wasn't anything that worked with my zimbra server.. it would always render wrong Sep 30 18:20:03 in microb? Sep 30 18:20:16 you should try it after the latest update. people have reported improvements Sep 30 18:20:28 MicroB is always improving. Sep 30 18:20:38 So talking about it from 8 months ago is about as un-useful as it gets. Sep 30 18:21:06 * Luria is looking forward to ff3 on pandora Sep 30 18:21:10 * Stskeeps just managed to kill his buildbox, lovely Sep 30 18:21:21 Luria, so it can run like shit? Sep 30 18:21:27 FF3 is already on the Beagle. Sep 30 18:21:29 Guess what? Sep 30 18:21:31 It runs like shit. Sep 30 18:21:42 wasn't the whole point of the last firmware update that you don't have to update the firmware anymore? Sep 30 18:21:54 all updates were supposed to be on the fly Sep 30 18:22:02 Macer, uh, they are. . . . Sep 30 18:22:08 microb is no wonder of the world Sep 30 18:22:20 really, i checked civ4. Sep 30 18:22:23 then i am running the latest microb and it does not render zimbra correctly Sep 30 18:22:24 Luria, it's a helluva lot faster than FF3 on the same hardware. Sep 30 18:22:37 Macer, 4.2008.36-5? Sep 30 18:22:41 and have you bothered filing a bug? Sep 30 18:23:07 right, but microb on omap 2 vs. ff3 on omap 3? Sep 30 18:23:09 not really.. i'd rather use debian ... sts and johnx have done great work Sep 30 18:23:23 GeneralAntilles, are you running angstrom on that? want to try midori 0.21 for me? Sep 30 18:23:23 still a lot to go:P Sep 30 18:23:28 Luria, FF3 is still slow. Sep 30 18:23:36 johnx_, I'm still in trashed-mode at the moment. Sep 30 18:23:38 once the bt phone dun works it would be perfect Sep 30 18:23:42 ff3 is too memory hungry Sep 30 18:23:49 ff3 is a pig Sep 30 18:24:03 Macer, it already does if you're willing to meddle with the command line, or so I would assume Sep 30 18:24:10 i find it ok on some crappy systems. better than ff2. Sep 30 18:24:15 i tried that for quite a while but that was with beta3 also Sep 30 18:24:30 i was able to bind them.. but the actual dialing part was a pain Sep 30 18:24:55 jott, ping. Sep 30 18:24:58 there was something missing.. can't remember what it was.. i believe the network interface for the bt dun stuff Sep 30 18:25:01 Luria, how much memory do those systems have? 256MB and swap makes all the difference from 128MB Sep 30 18:25:06 soo, are there any more PSU martyrs out there? Sep 30 18:25:18 or I'm the only one :) Sep 30 18:25:24 128 with swap Sep 30 18:25:39 but no crazy 200 tab sessions like my xp box :-) Sep 30 18:25:40 Macer: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221269&postcount=16 Sep 30 18:25:54 Luria, fast swap would be the difference Sep 30 18:26:12 5400rpm ata is fast? Sep 30 18:26:34 Luria, depends on what you compare it with Sep 30 18:27:15 Luria, yes, compared to SD cards. Also a fast processor makes up a lot of the difference Sep 30 18:30:34 andre___, oh hell, Jaffa shot some holes in that plan. . . . Sep 30 18:32:27 what plan? Sep 30 18:32:35 * andre___ is too lazy to read the backlog Sep 30 18:36:09 andre___, the versioning thread on -community Sep 30 18:36:15 Stskeeps - how is deblet with bt keyboard support? Sep 30 18:36:24 Macer: haven't tried Sep 30 18:36:26 would be even more awesome if it worked with my su8w :) Sep 30 18:36:45 ah. after i install the newest ver then i'll try mine out Sep 30 18:37:19 it's probably possible since su-8w keymaps are in deblet Sep 30 18:37:24 When Application Manager complains "Not enough memory in target location", what is it referring to? Sep 30 18:37:33 ah.. it would be nice to map the special keys Sep 30 18:37:34 The root filesystem or /media/mmc2? Sep 30 18:37:38 Macer, none of the bt stuff will work quite the way it does on os2008. it will be closer to the way it works in debian on the desktop Sep 30 18:37:41 the ones you would use on an n95 Sep 30 18:37:58 i never really used much bt stuff in debian Sep 30 18:38:27 never really had a reason to.. never had a desktop with bt nor needed it Sep 30 18:38:29 Oh, the root filesystem Sep 30 18:38:54 but i'll try it out once i re-install the newer ver Sep 30 18:39:10 Macer: you bored and want to try out the upcoming new version? :P Sep 30 18:39:21 GeneralAntilles, 4.1, 4.1+1 (=current 4.1.1), 4.1.1 (=current 4.1.2). but even that wouldn't solve the sorting issue. i love unsolvable problems :-P Sep 30 18:39:38 sure if you have a place to download it Sep 30 18:39:53 if you guys don't mind i was going to host your stuff in a little bit Sep 30 18:39:54 sure, sec Sep 30 18:40:17 Macer: if you want to provide rsync+ssh and a apache virtual host our mirror infrastructure is already up Sep 30 18:40:53 Macer: did you install Deblet before? if so, remove the deblet repo from application manager Sep 30 18:41:10 no.. i just used the bz2 from beta 3 on a fresh 4G Sep 30 18:41:17 k Sep 30 18:41:22 i installed it with the installer a while ago when you were working on it Sep 30 18:41:24 Macer: http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/deblet-diablo.install if you use diablo Sep 30 18:41:40 yeah, check the deblet repo is gone, we switched Sep 30 18:41:40 :P Sep 30 18:41:40 ok.. i'll download it in a minute Sep 30 18:43:49 and verify the deblet-installer package is 2.something Sep 30 18:44:02 and install nit-env-lxde is prolly your best shot Sep 30 18:50:08 i'm wiping the beta3 now Sep 30 18:51:05 de Sep 30 18:52:11 crashanddie: yes Sep 30 18:52:27 GeneralAntilles: Sorry, was away now ;) Sep 30 18:53:40 2.3-1 Sep 30 18:54:00 perfect Sep 30 18:54:21 G Sep 30 18:54:22 unable to install deblet-installer application packages missing: zenity roxterm Sep 30 18:54:31 oh, right Sep 30 18:54:34 lemme just include those Sep 30 18:54:49 GeneralAntilles: hopefully we can come up with a version strategy which works - maybe even Nokia telling us what SSU updates they're planning *cough* Sep 30 18:55:05 Jaffa, I doubt they know themselves. Sep 30 18:55:46 i don't have a rep with zenity or roxterm :) Sep 30 18:57:35 GeneralAntilles: SSU2 seemed to have been planned with the whole "oh, this was rushed, but the second one'll have sources & stuff; honest!" Sep 30 18:58:44 you going to add those pkgs to your rep Stskeeps ? Sep 30 18:58:49 Macer: yeah, working on it Sep 30 18:59:07 awesome Sep 30 19:00:03 GeneralAntilles: pong. Sep 30 19:00:23 Damnit, jott, I just closed that tab. :P Sep 30 19:00:33 :d Sep 30 19:00:39 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3602#c9 Sep 30 19:00:53 Macer: added, use .install file again and make sure it updates deblet repo with components: main user Sep 30 19:01:23 (you'll know if it doesn't :P) Sep 30 19:02:13 GeneralAntilles: oooh! now see nokia legal for slapping the bitch out of flash support etc :) Sep 30 19:03:23 Let 'em try. Sep 30 19:03:36 well.. it installed something in utilities Sep 30 19:03:45 Honestly, though, I bet we can fetch the proprietary stuff from tableteer. Sep 30 19:04:20 added a bootmenu setup huh? :) Sep 30 19:04:49 GeneralAntilles: is easy Sep 30 19:04:49 already have the bootmenu set up so i'll skip that.. although i'm tempted to mess with it Sep 30 19:04:50 jott, something that might be interesting to push. Sep 30 19:04:59 Macer: yeah, - is it my bootmenu patches? Sep 30 19:05:05 as in, the one you have already Sep 30 19:05:22 i need a patch for the bootmenu? Sep 30 19:05:27 what does it patch? Sep 30 19:05:43 GeneralAntilles: yeah main problem is to cherry-pick proprietary stuff. but the idea itself seems good. Sep 30 19:05:57 ok. brb. Sep 30 19:06:52 Macer: basically, install bootmenu from the utilities if you want to use deblet - the reason is because we use some additional features needed to make deblet boot well, and support boot menu items (in /etc/bootmenu.d) that are flashed to the initfs upon refresh_bootmenu.d , so you don't have to handmake your bootmenu.conf Sep 30 19:06:54 wow... lots of envs to choose from Sep 30 19:07:15 yeah, use -lxde for now Sep 30 19:07:19 the others i havent tested after the makeover Sep 30 19:07:19 -> #maemo-meeting Sep 30 19:07:27 lardman Sep 30 19:07:30 which bootmenu options did you change for it to boot well? Sep 30 19:07:33 meeting Sep 30 19:07:34 Jaffa Sep 30 19:07:44 etrunko :P Sep 30 19:08:29 Macer: i've added support so OS's can subvert the initfs fuckiness totally (excuse my language), allow for booting OS'es in a file, etc Sep 30 19:08:40 GeneralAntilles: is as usual okay to listen in? Sep 30 19:08:50 Stskeeps, #maemo-meeting is open. ;) Sep 30 19:08:55 Stskeeps: Sure. It is public ;) Sep 30 19:09:01 ah... ok. i'll run the bootmenu first then work on the install... i'll letyou know how it goes Sep 30 19:09:09 Stskeeps: And a log will be posted. Sep 30 19:09:25 call it morbid curiosity, or something ;) Sep 30 19:09:52 Hey, timsamoff! Sep 30 19:09:57 -> #maemo-meeting Sep 30 19:12:03 hm Sep 30 19:12:19 is the bootmenu supposed to be run after the install? Sep 30 19:12:25 it can be either really Sep 30 19:12:41 i just ran it and it wiped my bootmenu config and i don't have the ability to boot from my internal card anymore Sep 30 19:12:47 Oh, is that tonight? Sep 30 19:12:50 blk0p2 is what i usually use Sep 30 19:12:55 Macer: sec Sep 30 19:13:29 Macer: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23051 Sep 30 19:13:33 read my post about .items Sep 30 19:13:44 and set up one for your internal card Sep 30 19:13:48 (don't use _LINUXRC there) Sep 30 19:14:10 and then run refresh_bootmenu.d Sep 30 19:14:41 Macer: and probably needs to be noatime,rw for maemo if it's so Sep 30 19:15:10 Macer: when deblet is installed, a Deblet item will be added, for instance Sep 30 19:15:25 ah ok Sep 30 19:18:37 * robink had to uninstall a bunch of stuff to install the OS2008 update. Sep 30 19:28:14 ok.. have the menu now Sep 30 19:28:29 going to install the actual deblet in a sec Sep 30 19:32:34 it just retrieved packages and is trying to install now... do you keep the term for debugging purposes? Sep 30 19:33:07 yes, and some debconf questions Sep 30 19:33:21 cos not all people want to install GTK for the graphical debconf Sep 30 19:33:42 ah.. i see.. i just used the gtk one.. figured using a console for the stuff would be bothersome Sep 30 19:33:45 k Sep 30 19:33:51 it's not that bad Sep 30 19:33:52 :P Sep 30 19:34:02 ncurses? Sep 30 19:34:06 yeah Sep 30 19:34:10 but uhm, got a n810 or a n800? Sep 30 19:34:15 n800 Sep 30 19:34:31 cos i don't know if it's possible to use the on screen keyboard in the GTK one Sep 30 19:34:46 don't hang me up on that though Sep 30 19:34:53 heh Sep 30 19:35:02 you'll find out i guess Sep 30 19:35:05 yeah Sep 30 19:35:16 i use the console one cos its just easier :P Sep 30 19:35:33 derf: hey, how's the toolchain working? Sep 30 19:35:43 lardman: Haven't tried it yet. I'm at work. Sep 30 19:35:59 derf: ah, timezones :) Sep 30 19:36:01 well... i'll let you know if it works.. if it doesn't then i'll go ahead and try again with the ncurses stuff Sep 30 19:36:40 lardman: I was at work until almost 2 AM this morning, timezones have little to do with it. Sep 30 19:37:00 roxterm is nice to have in maemo tho Sep 30 19:37:09 derf: ouch Sep 30 19:37:28 kind of nice the installer installs it Sep 30 19:38:58 The system update broke my N810. Sep 30 19:39:20 robink: in what way? Sep 30 19:41:08 aquatix: Network config won't launch, hildon doesn't recognise the keyboard Sep 30 19:41:11 ... Sep 30 19:41:26 apt-get -f install Sep 30 19:41:35 and maybe dpkg --configure -a Sep 30 19:42:40 GeneralAntilles: apt-get -f install seems to be doing that. Sep 30 19:44:15 gah, do I have *any* sd cards without bad blocks?! Sep 30 19:44:40 johnx_: buy some decent brand? or be a little more kind to the poor things ;) Sep 30 19:44:57 testing linux distros and being kind are kind of mutually exclusive Sep 30 19:45:11 moo all Sep 30 19:45:11 :) Sep 30 19:45:15 but yeah, I guess I should figure out a decent brand Sep 30 19:45:15 moo robink Sep 30 19:45:19 gah, tab error Sep 30 19:45:21 m00f RST38h Sep 30 19:45:22 moo RST38h Sep 30 19:45:38 johnx_: sandisk serves me fine Sep 30 19:45:39 how are things in the maemoland? Sep 30 19:46:03 aquatix, see, that's the thing. sandisk is the only type of card I've had the completely died on me. Sep 30 19:46:11 ha :) Sep 30 19:46:23 transcend maybe? Sep 30 19:46:32 and they've (sandisk) historically worked poorly with the zaurus Sep 30 19:47:26 * johnx_ puts his 2gb card through a badblocks test Sep 30 20:07:44 poor Sun Microsystems at $7.60/share... and to add insult to the injury, its ticker is JAVA :) Sep 30 20:11:13 RST38h: they did that on purpose even Sep 30 20:20:56 aquatix: poor self mutilating things... Sep 30 20:21:12 not as bad as HPaq merge of course but still Sep 30 20:21:48 :) Sep 30 20:23:09 sleep time. Sep 30 20:29:50 * RST38h has quit, machine has gone to sleep Sep 30 20:47:44 GeneralAntilles: regarding the whole open source of things discussion - atleast i've used a lot of nokia sources for working out how the device works for deblet and devel purposes Sep 30 20:48:14 it's always nice being able to open the box and see what drives the machinery to develop better for the device Sep 30 20:48:23 Stskeeps, you want to elaborate a bit on that and toss it on the wiki form Quim? Sep 30 20:48:31 s/form/for/ Sep 30 20:48:31 GeneralAntilles meant: Stskeeps, you want to elaborate a bit on that and toss it on the wiki for Quim? Sep 30 20:49:37 GeneralAntilles: will think about it.. but one of the big research things these days is that users have easier understanding how their systems work and use them if they can open it up and alter to their behaviour Sep 30 20:49:48 +making it easier for users Sep 30 20:50:05 Stskeeps, having concrete examples is going to be _really_ useful Sep 30 20:50:15 yeah, probably :P Sep 30 20:50:17 So documenting your example isn't just a "feel good" thing. Sep 30 20:50:42 bootmenu is probably the most wide use of the fact the OS is "open source" though Sep 30 20:51:03 rotation support Sep 30 20:51:20 .. advanced backlight Sep 30 20:51:26 Pfft Sep 30 20:51:29 :P Sep 30 20:51:34 Advanced Backlight isn't an example of that Sep 30 20:51:44 it's an example of exactly why the closed components hinder development. Sep 30 20:51:45 true Sep 30 20:52:00 Showing Nokia management the cool things people do with the open source stuff, and exactly how much money those cool things could make them. . . . ;) Sep 30 20:53:13 i guess nokia is a bit in a interesting place - they're both OS and hardware provider Sep 30 20:53:51 similar situation to apple really Sep 30 20:54:03 .. for my own sake, i think some of the deblet things might be interesting and they're definately based on the OSS things from maemo :P Sep 30 20:54:04 GeneralAntilles: the trouble is, open sourcing stuff like the App Manager doesn't help when the plans that the corporate sponsor is doing with it are closed. Sep 30 20:54:15 Who's going to hack on it without knowing the patches will be accepted? Sep 30 20:54:32 Jaffa, yeah, true enough. Sep 30 20:54:42 Jaffa: Next time: bring that up during the meeting ;) Sep 30 20:54:45 So without open development, open code's almost useless Sep 30 20:54:52 X-Fade: family got the better of me ;-) Sep 30 20:54:53 Jaffa: That is a task, you know. Sep 30 20:55:10 "Open development"? Sep 30 20:55:39 The following error was encountered: Sep 30 20:55:39 Zero Sized Reply Sep 30 20:55:41 That's new. Sep 30 20:55:51 X-Fade: I'll have a look at Package_Categories tomorrow, and start contributing to the talk page Sep 30 20:56:13 Jaffa: Great! I will join you there ;) Sep 30 20:56:27 http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_Source_Proof_Points Sep 30 20:56:40 After fighting with categories last night with jott, I'm way ready to help push that one. Sep 30 20:57:05 are there actually people using Mamona, btw? Sep 30 20:57:07 like, actively? Sep 30 20:57:15 Stskeeps, not many. Sep 30 20:57:23 It only recently got to the point of usable. Sep 30 20:57:36 I might look at it...I have an on-again off-again love affair with openembedded Sep 30 20:57:43 they've done a shitload of interesting stuff tablet hacking wise, but i'm not sure they at all target the .. user Sep 30 20:58:06 Stskeeps, looks like they're working on infrastructure first Sep 30 20:58:22 Wow Sep 30 20:58:30 rtcomm beta is moving to Extras-devel? Sep 30 20:58:56 GeneralAntilles: Yes, I'm working with those guys to get it in there. Sep 30 20:59:04 GeneralAntilles: No convincing needed btw. Sep 30 20:59:11 X-Fade, I'd never have seen that one coming. Sep 30 20:59:52 Cool Sep 30 20:59:56 * GeneralAntilles slaps dneary for Maemo.org Sep 30 21:00:09 whu'? Sep 30 21:00:25 http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Karma&diff=7523&oldid=7518 Sep 30 21:00:40 Ah Sep 30 21:00:58 That must have been automatic capitalisation of the first letter in the sentence Sep 30 21:01:08 GeneralAntilles: Heh, well more repos tomorrow ;) Sep 30 21:01:23 I'm pretty tired, so I'm out of here. Sep 30 21:01:27 I'm designating etrunko to help you as punishment Sep 30 21:01:30 Later. Sep 30 21:01:32 for missing the review. ;) Sep 30 21:01:33 'night Sep 30 21:01:53 the whole Maemo.org/maemo.org/maemo/Maemo discussion reminds me of a rule at the local uni fraternity for nature sciences.. if you spell the name of the fraternity without it being all uppercase and if the name is seperated in any way, you owe a box of beer to the fraternity Sep 30 21:01:58 :P Sep 30 21:02:14 admittedly, it works Sep 30 21:02:18 s/beer/patch/ and we've got a deal. Sep 30 21:02:57 how many patches in a box? Sep 30 21:03:05 300,000 Sep 30 21:03:18 So, actually, you're indenturing yourself to Nokia every time you screw up. Sep 30 21:03:19 GeneralAntilles: I think the council should be willing to accept boxes of beer into "storage" Sep 30 21:03:35 Jaffa, you know, for "safe keeping"? ;) Sep 30 21:04:09 zactly Sep 30 21:04:24 I want to see where Bundyo goes with Tear. Sep 30 21:04:29 Looks quite cool already. Sep 30 21:04:45 Indeed Sep 30 21:13:02 Hmm. I'm now arguing with myself on http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Open_Source_Proof_Points ;-) Sep 30 21:14:08 Hehe Sep 30 21:16:36 night chaps Sep 30 21:16:41 g'night Sep 30 21:19:12 night Sep 30 21:19:57 is the meeting log going to be in http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/ ? Sep 30 21:20:07 mikkov_, yes. Sep 30 21:20:18 We need to give X-Fade 50 lashings first, though. Sep 30 21:21:05 was there some maemo.org meeting? is there a log somewhere? Sep 30 21:21:10 gah, need more ram Sep 30 21:21:21 mikkov_, er? Sep 30 21:21:27 Yes, it ends just a little while ago Sep 30 21:21:35 Yes, the logs will be posted to that URL. Sep 30 21:21:36 mikkov_: will be same place for the 'maemo.org redesign' meeting on Saturday Sep 30 21:22:12 GeneralAntilles: Re: Open Source Proof Points.... multiboot. I and others can make the tablets boot multiple OSes to allow developers to test apps on one device in clean installs. We can do multiboot 'cos we can hack at the open script. Sep 30 21:22:31 lbt: what's the advantage of that to Nokia? Sep 30 21:22:32 lbt, excellent! Now go write that up for the wiki. ;) Sep 30 21:22:41 Ah, dev testing Sep 30 21:22:45 yes Sep 30 21:22:45 Sorry, not paying attention Sep 30 21:22:54 Jaffa, or more hardware appeal to consumers. Sep 30 21:23:04 it's not really a consumer benefit though :) Sep 30 21:23:12 stupid OS update infinitely rebooted my n810, this time I had a backup though Sep 30 21:23:15 GeneralAntilles: s/consumers/very niche power users & developers/ Sep 30 21:23:20 lbt: indeed Sep 30 21:23:21 "consumers" being people with money who have interest in a feature like that who will buy it. Sep 30 21:23:21 Jaffa: thanks, I was referring to design meeting Sep 30 21:24:25 GeneralAntilles: They've already expressed - quite rightly - they want it to be a mainstream device; if it's a choice between opening X for $Y & receiving Z additional sales; or working on killer feature A for $B and receiving kZ sales, where 'k' is large - it'll be a no-brainer. Sep 30 21:24:44 And companies are *great* at convincing themselves in cost-benefit analyses of the decisions they've already made being the best ones Sep 30 21:25:12 (cos cost/benefit is impossible - or at least very very hard - to do [for software/hardware]) Sep 30 21:25:13 Jaffa: your open development point is very important. What's the point of even submitting a bug, never mind a patch. It goes into the back room and that's it... Sep 30 21:25:35 lbt: aye :-( Sep 30 21:25:55 * Jaffa hates being right sometimes ;-) Sep 30 21:26:24 have there been community patches to gtk etc that got back in? Sep 30 21:26:38 I'm inclined to blame Jaffa for the situation we're in. :P Sep 30 21:27:01 GeneralAntilles: damnit. I knew I should've never bought a 770 and instead bought a GP2X and now a Pandora ;) Sep 30 21:27:12 OpenMoko.... Sep 30 21:27:18 Who are also being pretty tight-lipped about their code. . . . Sep 30 21:27:40 are they? Sep 30 21:27:46 Pandora are Sep 30 21:28:05 They're not all that open software-wise for a supposedly "open" project. Sep 30 21:28:34 Similar to the TechCrunch tablet - "we'll be open [...] look, here's a video of some hardware booting [...] what? specs? software? shush now" Sep 30 21:29:06 Android... oh, wait, no... Sep 30 21:30:31 anyhow - got to go; life is busy at the moment... 'night all Sep 30 21:30:36 You want an open, Linux-running Internet Tablet? Buy a MID running Moblin or Ubuntu MID. Sep 30 21:30:50 Won't be a great tablet, but it'll be open. Sep 30 21:31:33 * Jaffa played with one of the Aigo/Gigabyte MIDs on the moblin stall at OSiM. It's still *so* flaky and amateurish. Worse than OS2005 in places (flicking Gtk+ borders, exposing underlying themes and implementations constantly) Sep 30 21:32:27 Interesting Sep 30 21:32:58 Ubuntu MID are having to put a lot of polish in now, now that they're not shipping with any devices as standard (at the moment) Sep 30 21:33:00 actually i want a decent product that knows how to use memory cards and doesn't panic when the tiny internal memory doesn't have room for a massive update :P Sep 30 21:33:18 Now, what the Canonical *couldn't* say about Nokia, Canonical, Ubuntu and Maemo was *very* interesting. Sep 30 21:33:36 s/Canonical/$& Guy/ Sep 30 21:33:37 Jaffa meant: Now, what the $& Guy *couldn't* say about Nokia, Canonical, Ubuntu and Maemo was *very* interesting. Sep 30 21:33:48 infobot: learn regexps better, you tool Sep 30 21:34:09 Ha Sep 30 21:34:19 It's IRC regex! Sep 30 21:35:03 Pfft. Sep 30 21:41:35 * Jaffa sleeps. G'night. Sep 30 22:00:57 * lcuk peeks in here Sep 30 22:01:49 * GeneralAntilles slams the door on lcuk's fingers. Sep 30 22:02:05 i deffo cant do stuff now Sep 30 22:02:30 theres me buildin a package - workin my fingers to the bone and you scrw it all up :P Sep 30 22:02:49 So now we can blame GeneralAntilles for the delay? Sep 30 22:02:55 heh Sep 30 22:05:19 hey all! Sep 30 22:19:25 maddler: hola :) Sep 30 23:04:03 * lcuk bangs head multiple times Sep 30 23:14:37 packaging driving you nuts, lcuk? :) Sep 30 23:15:04 yeah gregorovius :) just another set of things to re-learn and do Sep 30 23:15:34 I never managed to learn deb packaging, ended up moving to arch linux Sep 30 23:15:41 * lcuk will never understand this side of it Sep 30 23:28:03 Andy80: TTL here... Sep 30 23:28:14 see you all next time, folks Oct 01 00:00:35 can i remove/add programs to the sidebar of the OS? Oct 01 00:00:46 i don't ever use the chat program and i want to remove it Oct 01 00:01:57 and can anyone recommend a good small kb for the 770? Oct 01 00:31:18 * lcuk puts 10p in the machine Oct 01 00:43:17 Stskeeps - first try didn't boot Oct 01 00:43:49 i'm trying one more time to make sure .. picked ncurses for the install this time Oct 01 00:44:41 tried to boot from the bootmenu and just stuck there and didn't boot. i'll check it out later on when i get time. might just be a problem with the deblet.item i made or maybe the fstab.. (although i'd still see it boot if it were the fstab) Oct 01 01:04:15 Hello! Oct 01 01:04:27 Hi Oct 01 01:05:19 I'm having trouble downloading media converter for 770 - even though it is under "PC" software, it will not install. Oct 01 01:21:41 Hi there Oct 01 01:21:53 Would anyone know where https://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/ went ? Oct 01 01:22:28 I would say the new wiki: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_on_Linux Oct 01 01:22:56 TrueJournals, wow that was fast - thank you! Oct 01 01:23:05 No problem Oct 01 01:23:23 TrueJournals, if you're not a bot you should consider becoming one Oct 01 01:23:26 ;) Oct 01 01:24:00 MagicFab_: Umm... I'll think about it, I guess... Oct 01 01:25:37 * MagicFab_ updates https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PortableDevices/Nokia Oct 01 01:30:53 * TrueJournals wishes there was a "chinook and diablo" option in the extras assistant Oct 01 01:32:33 TrueJournals, enhancement request? Oct 01 01:32:49 Yeah, I should probably do that Oct 01 01:33:02 Not a big deal, just a pain to go through and do diablo, then go through and do chinook Oct 01 01:33:54 MagicFab_, while you're at it, mind updating the rest of the links to point to the articles on the new wiki? Oct 01 01:34:26 GeneralAntilles, why isn't there proper redirection set there ? Oct 01 01:34:51 MagicFab_, we're working on it. Oct 01 01:34:57 The old wiki is going to die for good very soon. Oct 01 01:35:48 only one otherlink refers to the older wiki... hunting it down Oct 01 01:36:34 GeneralAntilles, sorry at this time at night I feel rather lazy :) Oct 01 01:36:50 and yes it's only 9:35 (EST) pm Oct 01 01:38:36 Done, and thanks for suggesting that GeneralAntilles ;) Oct 01 01:38:49 Thanks for fixing it. ;) Oct 01 01:44:47 GeneralAntilles: added bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3758 Oct 01 01:46:10 'night all Oct 01 02:23:27 yawn. Oct 01 02:42:32 Was the OS2008 Feature Update supposed to upgrade the kernel as well? Oct 01 02:43:07 Yes Oct 01 02:43:17 If it wasn't, run flash-and-reboot. Oct 01 02:43:29 GeneralAntilles: Thanks. Oct 01 02:48:04 initfs was updated, kernel wasn't. Oct 01 02:57:28 night **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 01 02:59:59 2008