**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 01 02:59:59 2008 Oct 01 03:12:21 Stskeeps - it finished installing Oct 01 03:13:15 you didnt include bt stuff by default? Oct 01 03:15:46 can't do much with it until i get home and get back on the wifi Oct 01 03:16:06 only have my phone now Oct 01 05:10:02 Macer: you made .item yourself? deblet does that for you :P Oct 01 05:17:52 hi, how to msn with diablo? can you minimize gizmo to tray? no msn addon to telepathy? Oct 01 05:18:13 Yes there is. Oct 01 05:19:28 what is it haze? Oct 01 05:25:21 what would be an application that you would recommend that is capable of reading word documents? Oct 01 05:25:50 abiword? Oct 01 05:25:58 evince? Oct 01 05:28:45 can evince read word documents? Oct 01 05:31:07 wee new quiver Oct 01 05:31:43 guess not, it shows under planned Oct 01 05:31:46 awesomeness Oct 01 05:32:10 catdoc Oct 01 05:32:11 ;) Oct 01 05:32:14 i havent updated my n810 since i got this aspire one Oct 01 05:32:25 * elekt got one too Oct 01 05:32:33 which model? Oct 01 05:32:47 win xp Oct 01 05:33:01 is there any other difference? Oct 01 05:33:05 i got the 110 Oct 01 05:33:07 besides OS and color? Oct 01 05:33:12 price Oct 01 05:33:13 :) Oct 01 05:33:14 SSD vs HDD Oct 01 05:33:20 oh yah Oct 01 05:33:35 i needz ze space. Oct 01 05:33:42 and supposedly chassis size on the models being released soon Oct 01 05:33:45 also screen size? Oct 01 05:33:49 i have a 120gb external Oct 01 05:33:56 i'd would've had more space on my n800 than the ssd version Oct 01 05:33:59 screen size is 8.9 on all the ones Oct 01 05:34:31 * KotCzarny waits for cheap 32gb flash cards Oct 01 05:34:38 indeed Oct 01 05:34:53 thats one reason i went with the ssd model Oct 01 05:35:07 hdd version has worse battery life Oct 01 05:35:21 and is almost 1lb heavier Oct 01 05:35:47 mine x40 is ~3lbs Oct 01 05:36:52 *my Oct 01 05:37:19 16 gb ssd hd? Oct 01 05:37:23 or how big Oct 01 05:37:30 ~2.2lb on mine Oct 01 05:37:34 8gb SSD Oct 01 05:37:37 4gb + 8gb cf Oct 01 05:37:51 i upgraded my ram to 1.5gb Oct 01 05:37:58 and i can get another ide-cf adapter into the second slot Oct 01 05:38:11 ahm, +8gb sd Oct 01 05:38:19 well i have 160 Gb Oct 01 05:38:26 in your multiple faces Oct 01 05:38:28 one day it could go 4x32gb cf + 32gb sd Oct 01 05:38:38 i'm looking at one of the samsung SSDs, or a zif > CF adapter Oct 01 05:39:07 well i have 1tb if i bust out one of my externals :p Oct 01 05:39:09 zif? Oct 01 05:39:16 i have more than you Oct 01 05:39:21 :_) Oct 01 05:39:25 but is it portable? Oct 01 05:39:26 :) Oct 01 05:39:33 yes Oct 01 05:39:40 dangling Oct 01 05:39:42 :) Oct 01 05:39:43 fairly Oct 01 05:40:15 i'm a video editor Oct 01 05:40:22 i eat through them Oct 01 05:40:28 then you probably want that new dell laptop Oct 01 05:40:34 16gb ram, 1tb of hdd Oct 01 05:40:35 :> Oct 01 05:41:15 don't trust laptops for work really, unless i carry it in a hardcore case Oct 01 05:41:22 kinda defeats the purpose tho Oct 01 05:42:03 yeah, the lighter ones have bigger chance to survive Oct 01 05:42:12 unless it's toughbook Oct 01 05:42:13 :) Oct 01 05:43:24 i lose hdd's regularly Oct 01 05:43:47 imagine losing source code somebody has only given you Oct 01 05:43:51 and you lose it Oct 01 05:43:53 and it's gone Oct 01 05:43:54 then ssd is the way to go Oct 01 05:43:56 :) Oct 01 05:44:05 not dangling one Oct 01 05:44:19 Setup a RAID with SDHC. Oct 01 05:44:37 i wonder if anyone ever did software raid on the n800s.. :P Oct 01 05:44:46 stskeeps: zfs-fuse Oct 01 05:44:48 :) Oct 01 05:45:01 what's the mtbf for ssd anyways? Oct 01 05:45:10 I can't imagine we'd have the throughput to make it worthwhile. Oct 01 05:45:14 for slc long Oct 01 05:45:17 :) Oct 01 05:45:26 mlc shorter, but also long Oct 01 05:45:32 unless you put vista on it Oct 01 05:45:34 ;) Oct 01 05:45:40 KotCzarny: i would honestly love zfs snapshots on tablet.. Oct 01 05:45:54 stskeeps, fuse is already available Oct 01 05:46:04 KotCzarny: yeah, but i'm not that insane :P Oct 01 05:46:07 compiling zfs-fuse should answer the question if it works Oct 01 05:46:10 * Stskeeps uses zfs on his nexenta boxses Oct 01 05:46:14 how insane? Oct 01 05:46:23 i like lzo compression Oct 01 05:46:24 :) Oct 01 05:46:37 not compatible pools, but oh well Oct 01 05:46:37 also zfs is a bit of a memory hog but for my file servers that's okay :P Oct 01 05:46:38 :) Oct 01 05:46:47 well Oct 01 05:49:18 Damn Oct 01 05:49:27 lcuk's thermal fears weren't exactly well-founded about the Beagle. Oct 01 05:49:35 Rated for 90°C Oct 01 05:51:57 prepared for global warming Oct 01 05:51:58 :P Oct 01 05:57:06 Hrm Oct 01 05:57:10 Poor Trolltech Oct 01 05:57:15 "Qt Software" Oct 01 06:19:35 hm Oct 01 06:19:43 Stskeeps ? you around? Oct 01 06:20:17 i was reading the msg where you say how to set up the ppp connection for a bt phone but i don't see one where you actually set up the bt phone :) Oct 01 06:20:59 Stskeeps - yes. i made it myself heh.. i didn't know until i had already did it Oct 01 06:21:16 if the install makes it for you .. you should probbly remove the bootloader from it Oct 01 07:01:12 Macer: huh? Oct 01 07:01:31 Macer: i use one of the applets from bluez Oct 01 07:06:47 Macer: and the install just makes the .item for you, and then flashes the menu item to initfs Oct 01 07:08:16 is there a msn addon to telepathy? Oct 01 07:11:29 telepathy-haze Oct 01 07:17:06 acydlord_aao: what repository it is? Oct 01 07:28:38 GeneralAntilles: "Poor"? Oct 01 07:31:08 lpotter, much less interesting name now. Oct 01 07:31:33 colabora i think Oct 01 07:37:17 cola-what? Oct 01 07:44:14 Morning, finally managed to catch that flue. :( Oct 01 07:47:53 morning Oct 01 07:48:07 flash-and-reboot is in which repository? Oct 01 07:48:48 tableteer Oct 01 07:49:12 X-Fade, I'm docking you awesome points for getting sick. :P Oct 01 07:50:03 GeneralAntilles: Well, at least it is not stopping me from doing work.. Oct 01 07:52:09 The wonders of telecommuting. Oct 01 07:52:17 Don't work too hard. :) Oct 01 07:55:26 GeneralAntilles: which one? Oct 01 07:55:32 deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/ diablo user Oct 01 07:55:32 deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/non-certified/ diablo user Oct 01 07:55:32 deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo-2/ ./ Oct 01 07:55:35 none has it Oct 01 07:55:48 deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo-1/ ./ Oct 01 07:55:54 argh Oct 01 07:55:57 Maybe deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo/ ./ Oct 01 07:56:07 Yeah, I'm bitching a lot about that stupid setup. Oct 01 07:56:18 ~curse nokia .... Oct 01 07:56:18 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokia .... ! Oct 01 07:56:43 Logs are up at: http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/ Oct 01 07:59:25 ~lart ya'all Oct 01 07:59:25 * infobot breaks out the Hoover and sucks up ya'all Oct 01 08:01:33 ok. now upgraded Oct 01 08:02:11 about still lists 23-14 Oct 01 08:02:34 hrm, uname -a? Oct 01 08:02:44 s/hrm/hrw/ Oct 01 08:02:44 GeneralAntilles meant: hrw, uname -a? Oct 01 08:03:30 Linux Nokia-N810-23-14 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Tue Sep 2 10:13:14 EEST 2008 armv6l unknown Oct 01 08:03:53 kernel/initfs just updated by manually call 'flash-and-reboot' Oct 01 08:04:09 before update done by 'apt-get upgrade' Oct 01 08:04:28 One of the configuration scripts sets the version on the config partition. Oct 01 08:04:33 I don't recall which one off-hand. Oct 01 08:04:36 will look later Oct 01 08:04:55 dpkg --configure -a will probably fix it if you want to shotgun-approach it. Oct 01 08:10:03 moo all Oct 01 08:12:16 kulve: Ping? Oct 01 08:12:29 pong Oct 01 08:13:17 kulve: I'm working on getting rid of as much external repositories as possible. Can you be convinced to move your pacakges to Extras and close your repo? :) Oct 01 08:13:42 not easily :) Oct 01 08:13:47 couple of reasons: Oct 01 08:14:17 I would need to rename the gstreamer source packages so that they wouldn't conflict with the nokia's versions Oct 01 08:14:49 there is already some packages I'm providing also and I don't want a race where two project sends same packages with increased version numbers Oct 01 08:15:07 "projects send" Oct 01 08:16:10 kulve: Well, for the gstreamer we would need to organize some coordination. But that should be doable. Oct 01 08:16:43 sorry, I have to leave for a lunch. I'll be back in a hour or so Oct 01 08:16:55 kulve: We have built your source packages against extras-devel and most seem to be building on the autobuilder just fine: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/external-rebuild/gronmayer-rebuild.php Oct 01 08:17:06 but basically I would be happy to provide my packages to extras if there wouldn't be these issues Oct 01 08:17:36 kulve: Well, I'm sure we can manage to get that sorted out. Oct 01 08:20:04 X-Fade, making progress with Mozilla. Oct 01 08:20:15 GeneralAntilles: Good! Oct 01 08:20:51 They asked about nightlies. Oct 01 08:21:12 GeneralAntilles: Extras-devel? Oct 01 08:21:16 I suggested Extras-devel for releases until they hit a real beta, and a separate repository for nightlies. Oct 01 08:21:26 I don't think it's appropriate. Oct 01 08:21:38 Yeah, probably. Oct 01 08:21:49 I figure most of the people using it don't want to be notified every day a new version is out. Oct 01 08:22:12 and they probably don't want to fight the autobuilder in a nightly building process. Oct 01 08:23:18 Isn't Gizmo distributed through one of the Nokia commercial repos? Oct 01 08:23:51 I'd have to check. Oct 01 08:25:06 * lcuk smiles Oct 01 08:25:38 Stskeeps - bluez didnt install with the installer... there isnt an aplet Oct 01 08:26:30 X-Fade, it's not. Oct 01 08:26:47 i'll work on it when i get home, no wifi where i am Oct 01 08:26:49 Could we get the person in charge of tableteer to get with Gizmo, though? Oct 01 08:26:57 Skype is in http://repository.maemo.org/catalogue/certified/pool/diablo/user/s/skype/ Oct 01 08:27:31 GeneralAntilles: Ok, I will see if I can find the person in charge of that repo ;) Oct 01 08:27:55 <_marcell_> X-Fade: I could ask around Oct 01 08:28:01 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Oct 01 08:28:02 _marcell_: Please ;) Oct 01 08:28:24 <_marcell_> X-Fade: at least I am the guy who is putting the packages to certified, but the requests are coming from all over nokia Oct 01 08:28:44 _marcell_: yeah, but we need the business guy, I guess ;) Oct 01 08:28:44 <_marcell_> X-Fade: oooo, so what do I need to ask? :) Oct 01 08:28:49 _marcell_, assuming Skype and Gizmo wouldn't be going at each other's throats in the same repo. . . . ;) Oct 01 08:29:11 I can't imagine how they wouldn't be willing to do it. Oct 01 08:29:19 _marcell_: Gizmo is using their own repo. Any reason why they aren't in the tableteer repo? Oct 01 08:29:22 As there's way more exposure with a repository bundled with the device. Oct 01 08:29:29 skype is better than gizmo but they need n800 vid support Oct 01 08:29:39 Macer, pssh Oct 01 08:29:44 Gizmo uses open standards Oct 01 08:29:45 heh Oct 01 08:29:50 so I'm not tied to Skype's crap client. Oct 01 08:30:02 Which makes them a helluva lot better in my book. Oct 01 08:30:18 i like my skype home phones Oct 01 08:30:23 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: I see. Oct 01 08:30:32 Macer: yeah, i know Oct 01 08:30:38 Macer, mine are tablets. :D Oct 01 08:30:52 unlimited skype in, caller id for $50/yr? Oct 01 08:30:55 Macer: the environments still need some extra stuff really, but we're getting the infrastructure ready atm Oct 01 08:31:02 i was sold Oct 01 08:31:37 Stskeeps - i see.. anything i can zdd myself to get a bt applet? Oct 01 08:31:44 zdd/add Oct 01 08:32:02 it works good tho sts Oct 01 08:32:23 although picking gtk didnt work Oct 01 08:32:34 Macer: apt-get install bluez-gnome Oct 01 08:32:48 ok. awesome Oct 01 08:33:07 you might need to edit the /etc/xdg/autostart .desktop though Oct 01 08:33:07 i'll do it when i get home.. no wifi here Oct 01 08:33:34 I wish more packagers would use Maemo-Display-Name Oct 01 08:33:42 really improves the user appeal. Oct 01 08:33:45 ah. that should be easy enough Oct 01 08:34:05 how does promotion work in extras-devel? someone (not uploader) decides it's good enough for extras? Oct 01 08:34:31 it looks great tho sts Oct 01 08:34:32 Stskeeps: Currenlty every upload can do that. Oct 01 08:34:39 *uploader Oct 01 08:34:40 k Oct 01 08:35:18 once i get the bt kb and dun going ... i probably wont use maemo too often Oct 01 08:35:50 especially if i find a good vid and mp3 player Oct 01 08:36:28 like the boot splash too ;) Oct 01 08:36:39 hehe, good look by timsamoff Oct 01 08:37:14 dumping epiphany was good heh Oct 01 08:37:38 haven't actually tried midori yet Oct 01 08:37:42 they really need to get rid of that add bar feature in all browsers Oct 01 08:38:10 whatever they call it Oct 01 08:38:12 GeneralAntilles: is that documented? I don't remember seeing it - even in the Packaging Policy. Oct 01 08:38:28 it is irritating on a desktop too Oct 01 08:38:28 Jaffa, haven't a clue. Oct 01 08:38:42 I haven't paid enough attention to the packaging resources. Oct 01 08:39:20 sts... when i get time this weekend i'm going to host your stuff Oct 01 08:39:37 probably set it up this weekend Oct 01 08:39:42 Macer: k, it's basically just a rsync+ssh needed and an apache virtual host + serveralias :P Oct 01 08:40:04 have the apache box set up already Oct 01 08:40:31 just need to do the vhost.. should take a few mins Oct 01 08:41:59 might have to nfs it to my shell box tho... ok.. bbl. i'll try the bt stuff in the morn Oct 01 08:44:37 you know you're at the right work place when people start dumping ARM SBC's in your lap, http://www.derekspratt.com/PDFs/Business/Intrinsyc%20Software/Brochures/Intrinsyc%20CerfComm%20250%20Data%20Sheet.pdf (bottom pic) Oct 01 08:45:37 * RST38h would prefer money Oct 01 08:45:57 i'm also getting beagleboards Oct 01 08:45:57 :P Oct 01 08:46:02 Ah Oct 01 08:46:12 I would still prefer money. Oct 01 08:46:14 hehe Oct 01 08:47:08 * Jaffa would like *a* Beagleboard and money. Oct 01 08:47:11 * Jaffa has neither at the moment. Oct 01 08:48:42 get a Zoom instead ;) Oct 01 08:48:47 and have no money Oct 01 08:48:51 :D Oct 01 08:49:59 hello, i am trying to setup a clean minimal environment for compiling a PyPy Python interpreter on Maemo - does anyone know if scratchbox/maemo is supposed to work in a virtualbox image? Oct 01 08:50:30 hpk: I used vmware scrachbox image in vbox Oct 01 08:51:00 * melmoth use scratchbox in a xen vm Oct 01 08:51:58 * _berto_ uses scratchbox in kvm Oct 01 08:52:23 <_berto_> anyone using scratchbox in openvz ? ;) Oct 01 08:52:26 <_berto_> :D Oct 01 08:52:29 What section would you put a rotation support metapackage in? Oct 01 08:53:08 ok, thanks for the info. i indeed got things almost to work nicely yesterday, but then had a strange compilation problem with libpthread (http://paste.pocoo.org/show/86688/) Oct 01 08:54:36 and my today's tries to re-install from scratch (using maemo-scratchbox-install_4.1.1.sh ) did not get me as far as yesterday. any recommendations for what to do to cleanly reinstall everything on a debian 8.04 system? Oct 01 08:57:44 GAN: System Oct 01 08:58:01 RST38h, yeah, we went with user/system Oct 01 08:58:05 GAN: But it will not work without a non-standard kernel, will it? Oct 01 08:58:17 But it's, apparently, not one of Application manager's localized sections. Oct 01 08:58:21 GeneralAntilles: But that is no an official section ;) Oct 01 08:58:32 X-Fade, guess what else uses it? Oct 01 08:58:38 * RST38h checks which sections are official Oct 01 08:58:42 RST38h, it pulls in a patched kernel and flashes it. Oct 01 08:58:54 https://wiki.maemo.org/Package_Categories Oct 01 08:58:59 http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:gn_Q-hiPTz4J:maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/maemo-policy.pdf+maemo+packaging+policy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us Oct 01 08:59:39 o-s-v is user/system Oct 01 08:59:39 Yes, I think current sections are limited and some are even useless ;) Oct 01 09:00:05 X-Fade <-- is speaking the truth Oct 01 09:00:45 GAN: Well, if it is not user/system, it must be user/support Oct 01 09:01:31 I hate categorization so much. Oct 01 09:01:56 With sane categories it would not be such a chore Oct 01 09:02:10 * GeneralAntilles has no idea what a sane list of categories looks like. Oct 01 09:02:30 Anyway, we're close to a rotation-support metapackage. Oct 01 09:02:55 Though it will require the user to read a model number off the bezel and match it to a package name Oct 01 09:03:10 GAN: You only need to look at some old, time-tested distro Oct 01 09:03:23 FreeBSD package categories, or Debian package categories... Oct 01 09:03:24 RST38h, have you seen Debian's list? Oct 01 09:03:33 Not really - I do not use Debian Oct 01 09:03:37 hamradio Oct 01 09:03:58 if there is a lot of ham apps, then why not give them a category? Oct 01 09:04:00 http://packages.debian.org/stable/ Oct 01 09:04:43 Well, it looks ok to me Oct 01 09:05:09 A few names are asking for a change or removal, but overall it is ok Oct 01 09:06:00 anybody fluent with gdb usage in scratchbox ? Oct 01 09:08:22 which .... decided that backupping settings == backupping emails... Oct 01 09:08:28 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3602#c9 Oct 01 09:08:34 hrw, I filed a bug a while ago. Oct 01 09:08:41 Something about Modest and gconf Oct 01 09:08:46 It'll be fixed at some point. Oct 01 09:08:52 Btw, I had the same question Oct 01 09:09:02 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3289 Oct 01 09:09:28 I'd like to investigate Marius's suggest (well, it's actually jott's idea originally). Oct 01 09:09:55 Be _really_ helpful if we could convince Nokia to give us at least a few days heads up before they push an update. Oct 01 09:10:14 ok. now I have 36-5 in about Oct 01 09:10:38 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3759 Oct 01 09:10:42 Anybody want to triage that? Oct 01 09:12:24 how? Oct 01 09:13:18 RST38h, very carefully. Oct 01 09:14:02 scary. Oct 01 09:16:31 ~lart wikiblame Oct 01 09:16:31 * infobot follow's wikiblame with a gauntlet and ... scratch ... HUMILIATION Oct 01 09:23:38 ~lart qwerty12 Oct 01 09:23:38 * infobot blasts qwerty12 with a huge firehose then strangles qwerty12 with it Oct 01 09:23:52 * qwerty12 runs Oct 01 09:23:52 mornin q Oct 01 09:24:07 hey lcuk Oct 01 09:24:52 i think that packaging fix will work \o/ i grabbed the original one you knocked up and moulded it Oct 01 09:25:44 Is it in SVN with the fix? I'd like to take another look if I may :) Oct 01 09:26:37 I've been thinking about it and the font shouldn't be installed to /usr/share/fonts like a system font. I think it would be better off residing in the liqbase directory. Oct 01 09:30:20 lcuk: qwerty, i try to add the dbg package, i m not sure this is the way it should be though http://sd-2175.dedibox.fr/tmp/diff2.txt Oct 01 09:31:01 it "works" if i tell gdb to use /usr/lib/debug/usr/bin/liqbase instead of /usr/bin/liqbase, but i am not sure this is the way debug symbols should work in deb packaging. Oct 01 09:31:28 with RHEL, there are some symbols automagically found by gdb, and you use the regular binary exectuables Oct 01 09:32:28 ok, sorry for dropping, internet here dies whenever someone uploads Oct 01 09:32:57 qwerty12, ive not had a chance to try the fix, but it *does* seem like whats required - ive not run over a package myself yet Oct 01 09:33:52 the font install is a bit mmmnmn that isnt even really needed, but i was fixing paths to everything last night and made all fonts point into there - infact ill make sure its not in the base package Oct 01 09:34:12 melmoth, I'm a n00b :). I'm trying to find some -dbg packages Oct 01 09:34:43 lcuk, yeah, I'd say shift the font into /usr/share/liqbase and remove those font lines from the postinst# Oct 01 09:35:12 * qwerty12 should reboot into linux actually. See you in a long while (~kill ndiswrapper)... Oct 01 09:35:39 yer i had noticed last night theres a few things in postinst that i dont want - liqbase itself needs to create the sketch folder per spec from user, ill get that put in at next sitdown Oct 01 09:37:08 melmoth - what debugging do you do on device, what options have you got - i know its something a lot of people have requested simple information about Oct 01 09:37:18 and how well does it work Oct 01 09:37:37 well, i tend to generate a lot of segfautl when i write C. Oct 01 09:37:46 i like to be able to see the stack content when this happens Oct 01 09:37:59 and try to find out where did i did something bad Oct 01 09:38:52 btw, this is how i try to make the -dbg package http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/how_to_make_a_dbg_package.html Oct 01 09:39:01 heh, i tend to just try to ensure i include constructors and destructors and feel the code in a test function before expanding it into use Oct 01 09:39:55 im havin trouble makin a default package so far, ill get through that before i start on advanced topics ;) Oct 01 09:40:12 though i do like the idea of device-device debugging :) Oct 01 09:40:46 about 80% of the size of my binary is probably debug messages :D Oct 01 09:41:02 wb linux boy Oct 01 09:41:26 hey qwerty, liqbase can be built on a full linux desktop now Oct 01 09:42:05 its got some bugs, and a mouse is not perfect for sketching, but it looks cool Oct 01 09:42:09 tsk Oct 01 09:42:38 im goin again anyway, cyas later Oct 01 09:43:06 Goddam, xchat fucks up my internet connection when I try connecting >.< Oct 01 09:46:07 use quassel ;) Oct 01 09:48:07 I'll probably recompile the latest unstable ndiswrapper. It may be a result of ubuntu messing up their modules packages or something. Oct 01 09:48:12 I'll probably recompile the latest unstable ndiswrapper. It may be a result of ubuntu messing up their modules packages or something. Oct 01 09:48:19 Still, I'm glad no one recommended irssi :P Oct 01 09:53:40 lardman, did you ever move the DSP stuff to the new wiki? Oct 01 09:54:51 qwerty12: what kind of crappy card you use? Oct 01 09:55:07 lardman, ah, now I see it. Oct 01 09:56:18 hrw: Some safecom card. With a TI chipset :/. The only driver for TI chipsets doesn't work for my card :( Oct 01 09:56:49 lcuk: I'm fixing my cockup with the font stuff :) Oct 01 10:13:18 dneary, ping. Oct 01 10:13:27 busy right now Oct 01 10:13:32 bbiaw Oct 01 10:13:45 Right-o Oct 01 10:15:02 Nice, qt4 repository is now gone too. And gronmayer already picked that up ;) Oct 01 10:15:52 qwerty12: get irssi dammit Oct 01 10:17:05 X-Fade, slowly filling the bottom of gronmayer with gray repos. :D Oct 01 10:17:33 Yep ;) Oct 01 10:17:38 X-Fade: nice Oct 01 10:17:52 More coming soon, it seems. Oct 01 10:24:51 https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Kill_the_old_wiki Oct 01 10:25:31 If I could get some more eyes on http://maemo.org/community/wiki/wikireorg/ Oct 01 10:30:25 Hi! Is there no source code for the connectivity dialogs publicly available? Oct 01 10:30:51 cuse, nope. Oct 01 10:30:59 :/ Oct 01 10:31:44 and there is no DBUS reference either, right? Oct 01 10:31:58 i need to find out how to control the nokias wlan deamon Oct 01 10:32:18 Poke maemo-developers Oct 01 10:32:19 to be able to automatically connect to an access point Oct 01 10:32:31 and take a look at the Diablo documentation Oct 01 10:32:56 cuse, I'm not sure on how to do it with DBUS but looking into libconic is worth a try Oct 01 10:33:05 or you could hire a load of monkeys Oct 01 10:33:21 and get them to randomly come up with an implementation Oct 01 10:33:29 MangoFusion: sorry, monkeys are too big and too stinky Oct 01 10:33:31 cuse, try dbus-monitor ;) Oct 01 10:33:41 inz: aaaaah, thanks a lot! :) Oct 01 10:34:20 cuse, and if you get it figured out, create .xml files for the D-Bus API ;) Oct 01 10:35:10 inz: uh? xml files? for what? Oct 01 10:35:21 inz: i would either write a script to do it or a small c app Oct 01 10:35:31 ah Oct 01 10:35:34 you mean documentation Oct 01 10:35:35 :) Oct 01 10:35:49 cuse, .xml-files that can be interpreted by dbus-binding-tool Oct 01 10:36:17 GeneralAntilles: I think dneary moved if for me, I need to update Oct 01 10:36:23 cuse, you could of course try if the thing supports introspection, but I really doubt it Oct 01 10:36:23 s/if/it Oct 01 10:36:47 inz: your speaking in riddles to me :) Oct 01 10:37:00 inz: i thought i just use e.g. dbus-send, no? Oct 01 10:37:26 cuse, D-Bus has a way of asking an object "what methods do you have" Oct 01 10:37:43 cuse: libconic would be the way to go; that is all documented Oct 01 10:37:44 cuse, unfortunately most of nokia-made maemo components don't support this Oct 01 10:38:21 inz: yeah, thats why i would stick with the sniffing solution Oct 01 10:38:29 lardman: ill have a look at it, thanks! Oct 01 10:38:32 cuse, I'm not sure on how to do it with DBUS but looking into libconic is worth a try Oct 01 10:38:44 qwerty12: just adding to your comment Oct 01 10:38:53 qwerty12: have you tried driftnet lately? Oct 01 10:39:14 lardman, I know, nothing against you. I'm pointing out to cuse that I said it a *long* time ago :) Oct 01 10:39:24 lardman, I've never tried it :) Oct 01 10:39:32 cuse: http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node10.html Oct 01 10:39:37 qwerty12: I know ;) Oct 01 10:39:54 qwerty12: Ah, I thought it would be right up your street; would have been cool for the summit too Oct 01 10:40:08 qwerty12: got that one, thanks i dig into libcon stuff Oct 01 10:40:13 qwerty12: :) Oct 01 10:40:15 lardman, I think Benson's compiled it for maemo Oct 01 10:40:17 cuse, :) Oct 01 10:40:42 qwerty12: Ok, I'll browse ITT and see (/me being lazy and not being bothered to compile it himself again) Oct 01 10:41:30 lardman, I'd offer but I was in Linux just now and I swear to God, I would have smashed up my computer if I had to endure another minute of really dodgy internet in Linux Oct 01 10:42:27 lol Oct 01 10:42:37 I need to get a build machine at work Oct 01 10:42:44 yo lardman . Oct 01 10:42:55 i played with navit this week end. Oct 01 10:43:04 it is cool, and it ..sort of works. Oct 01 10:43:27 audio navigation can be done also with espeal and some change in the configuration file. Oct 01 10:44:31 hey melmoth Oct 01 10:44:33 espeal? Oct 01 10:44:57 espeak Oct 01 10:45:12 do we have that on the tablet? Oct 01 10:45:24 i pushed it on extras Oct 01 10:45:28 cool Oct 01 10:45:34 but you need gstreamer to make some output Oct 01 10:45:36 how about the routing, did you get it to work? Oct 01 10:46:01 yes . the trick is to have gpsd started , and to click somewhere, and choose 'set destination' Oct 01 10:46:17 then wait, couples of seconds later, you got your road. Oct 01 10:46:20 ah, ok Oct 01 10:46:54 I didn't get a chance to do any coding this weekend, will have to look at adding support so it will start gpsd and work out how to use the dialog too Oct 01 10:47:41 the navigation dialog lost me..i think once you choose a city, you then either choose to click on 'map' to center the map, or 'destination', to set it as destination Oct 01 10:47:47 but i m not 100% sure this is how it works Oct 01 10:47:59 yeah, didn't seem to do anything for me Oct 01 10:50:04 rendering was pretty fast though Oct 01 10:50:52 i was ashamed..I was struggling to fit the whole paris graph in less than 100M of ram, those guy made the whole france fit in a 100Mb file. Oct 01 10:51:12 this hit the nail on sayhoo's coffin :) Oct 01 10:51:27 did you work out why your method took so much more memory? Oct 01 10:51:56 not really Oct 01 10:52:21 i did try to understand how navit generated their map from the osm data, but dropped quite fast. Oct 01 10:52:39 so i spent time playing with it instead :) Oct 01 10:52:49 :) Oct 01 10:54:56 did you store the xml in memory Oct 01 10:54:57 ? Oct 01 10:55:06 as Navit uses a binary representation Oct 01 10:55:23 i parsed the xml to feed a sqlite database, and then use the database to generate the graph in memory Oct 01 10:55:40 ok Oct 01 10:56:17 hey folks have you got navit to work?!? Oct 01 10:56:25 sort of Oct 01 10:56:31 oh Oct 01 10:56:35 question about libconic: there is a call to request a connection, but does it allow to specify the name of the wlan access point I want to connect to ? Oct 01 10:56:44 latest snv version, compiled on scratchbox (without the python bindings) Oct 01 10:57:33 not package, crash sometimes, tells to do u turn when i dont understand why, but works otherwise Oct 01 10:57:57 * melmoth has no clue about libconic Oct 01 10:58:26 lol Oct 01 10:58:37 melmoth: see the link I gave above re libconic Oct 01 10:58:53 namely http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node10.html Oct 01 11:03:43 cuse, there was just a posting yesterday on maemo-developers about programmatically connecting and disconnecting to a network connection Oct 01 11:04:13 lcuk: yeeeeah? ok, hope there is an archive Oct 01 11:04:57 cuse, no, it all sent into /dev/null as soon as we finish writing Oct 01 11:05:12 crashanddie: damn :) Oct 01 11:05:17 lol sometimes before we are finished Oct 01 11:05:22 mornin crashanddie :) Oct 01 11:06:40 cuse, the mail subject was "Offline mode from the command-line?" Oct 01 11:06:49 i dunno where the archive is, but it exists Oct 01 11:07:55 is hier pennergame?? Oct 01 11:08:03 lcuk: i found the archive: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/ but seems that thread is not archived yet Oct 01 11:08:08 First link on Google search Oct 01 11:08:14 Simenta_, beg your pardon? Oct 01 11:08:28 what sorry but iam german Oct 01 11:08:30 One in three dollars spent on notebooks end up at Apple Oct 01 11:08:31 lcuk: could you probably paste it for me ? pleeeeeeeeeeeeese! :D Oct 01 11:08:38 Simenta_, under, wir sprechen kein deutsch Oct 01 11:08:46 und** Oct 01 11:08:55 oh sorry is here "pennergame" Oct 01 11:09:03 what's that? Oct 01 11:09:07 melmoth: tried stack trace analysis of crashes? Oct 01 11:09:13 a Browsergame Oct 01 11:09:14 im connected via vnc through a crappy uplink, it took 40 seconds to flick back and forwards to just select the mail subject, im not openin anythin again Oct 01 11:09:23 RST38h: what crash ? Oct 01 11:09:28 bbl Oct 01 11:09:29 melmoth: Navit crash Oct 01 11:09:35 RST38h: i would like some dbg symbol for...future crash. Oct 01 11:09:37 ok not? i go out Oct 01 11:09:38 ahh navit. Oct 01 11:09:49 Simenta_, this is the channel for the maemo.org community Oct 01 11:09:58 no, i did not have ulimit set to unlimited on the tablet, so no core Oct 01 11:10:19 cuse: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-users/2008-September/date.html Oct 01 11:10:25 melmoth: I am pretty sure that even the way it is, you will still get a stack trace Oct 01 11:10:32 unless the binary is stripped Oct 01 11:10:46 lardman: you're a sweetheart! :) Oct 01 11:11:00 cuse: might not be what you want though Oct 01 11:11:16 Simenta_: I think the answer is probably no Oct 01 11:12:07 i do not remember seeing any backtrace on the term i laucnhed nativ from.. will double check next time i use it. Oct 01 11:12:57 RST38h: do you know if any navit developper hangs out on this channel ? Oct 01 11:13:14 melmoth: they do not Oct 01 11:13:24 Grumble. Oct 01 11:13:25 is there a #navit channel I wonder Oct 01 11:13:27 Or we would see and torture one Oct 01 11:13:31 Ahaha Oct 01 11:13:45 But a crash should be easy to trace anyway Oct 01 11:13:57 melmoth: yes there is Oct 01 11:14:09 * crashanddie cries out Oct 01 11:14:25 * crashanddie removes the highlight on the word "crash" Oct 01 11:14:41 sorry crashanddie Oct 01 11:14:46 melmoth: See how easy it is to trace a crash? =) Oct 01 11:14:52 Poor crashanddie Oct 01 11:14:58 we will try not talk about crash that much anymore Oct 01 11:15:00 I hope he doesn't crashanddie Oct 01 11:15:14 Navit? He does. Oct 01 11:22:12 http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/e/m/empathogen/theysayjump.jpg Oct 01 11:23:42 Love it Oct 01 11:28:17 Stskeeps, ping. Oct 01 11:29:27 * L0cutus need rdiff-backup on maemo :) Oct 01 11:33:07 <[pcfe]> where can I find logs of osso-backup? Mine just sits there at 100% CPU usage after entering password for new backup (left it running overnight), and even if I call osso-backup from the command line I get no output. I do guess though that is does log somewhere Oct 01 11:34:08 pcfe: Known bug Oct 01 11:34:38 pcfe: One of config files contains a character that confuses XML parser Oct 01 11:34:50 Most likely, it is an email address with unescaped @ character Oct 01 11:35:25 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: about Gizmo: the answer was that the certified repo is for nokia/nokia licensed application, and gizmo is not one of those. Oct 01 11:35:46 Terminate it and try backing things up WITHOUT backing Settings. See if this one succeeeds. If it does, then it is exactly as I have said Oct 01 11:36:06 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: I will still try to ask if it would be possible to talk to Gizmo people to use the non-certified repository or something like that. Oct 01 11:36:40 marcel: Is there some problem using extras/non-free? Oct 01 11:37:17 Ah, cool. Thanks, _marcell_. :) Oct 01 11:37:24 <_marcell_> RST38h: extras is for community stuff, and Gizmo probably do not want to distribute the sources Oct 01 11:37:38 marcel: non-free is for non-open-source apps Oct 01 11:38:01 _marcell_: We allow binary uploads for non-free only. Oct 01 11:38:08 <_marcell_> ah, that. Oct 01 11:38:09 marcel: as for being community, my guess is that for practical purposes it is better to be in extras, community or not Oct 01 11:38:36 Of course for now Nokia disables Extras by default... Oct 01 11:38:58 <_marcell_> my first choiche would have been catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/non-certified Oct 01 11:39:17 non-certified is enabled by default. Oct 01 11:39:22 yep Oct 01 11:39:26 There's no benefit to it being in Extras over non-certified. Oct 01 11:39:40 but it is a weird repo with very few apps Oct 01 11:39:52 Has Nokia any plans about it? Oct 01 11:39:59 RST38h: lol @ that jump image Oct 01 11:40:16 * RST38h supports the message wholeheartedly Oct 01 11:40:17 <_marcell_> about non-certified? afaik it's empty Oct 01 11:40:27 It's empty. Oct 01 11:40:32 * aquatix puts the image on his own weblog Oct 01 11:40:41 And start with realtors please. Oct 01 11:41:45 <[pcfe]> RST38h: thanks. Do you happen to know the bug number? Oct 01 11:42:05 pcfe: Not really. Just encountered it at least once, with Modest config fiel Oct 01 11:42:08 file Oct 01 11:42:10 It might be that the maemo.nokia.com promoted apps end up in non-certified? Oct 01 11:42:33 btw. is the release date of next tablet already published? Oct 01 11:42:41 Unable to determine IP address from host name for maemo.nokia.com Oct 01 11:42:42 even a quarter? Oct 01 11:42:49 macoute_, there aren't even real prototypes yet. Oct 01 11:42:58 macoute: May 2009 or later Oct 01 11:43:03 GeneralAntilles: but the specs are ready? Oct 01 11:43:06 Presumably mid-2009. Oct 01 11:43:10 RST38h: that an official information? Oct 01 11:43:14 ok. Oct 01 11:43:18 macoute: Because May 2009 is when they expect to release Freemantle SDK Oct 01 11:43:22 ok Oct 01 11:43:42 Add 2-4 months to that and you have got the hw release date Oct 01 11:44:21 Alternative hypothesis is that they will release Freemantle for N8x0 first, but chances for that are low Oct 01 11:45:35 ok Oct 01 11:45:52 so the release cycle is supposed to be around a year for major updates? Oct 01 11:46:04 there are no official release cycles Oct 01 11:46:06 diablo was released around may 08, right? Oct 01 11:47:27 <[pcfe]> RST38h: an, found it, 3591 Oct 01 11:47:38 hmm, I got the impression that hw would be available, at least for developers, before that Oct 01 11:48:05 pcfe: That may not be it Oct 01 11:48:20 lardman: judging from the N810, no Oct 01 11:49:09 lardman: Also, OMAP3 will not appear in the tablet until it starts appearing in the S60 phones Oct 01 11:49:22 RST38h: you don;t know the latter Oct 01 11:49:40 lardman: I do not, but it is a reasonable enough assumption Oct 01 11:49:50 RST38h: at the summit we were told that devices would be available ahead of time for developers Oct 01 11:49:58 RST38h: yeah, but not certain Oct 01 11:50:16 lardman: Yes, but "ahead of time" means "before they are available in the stores" Oct 01 11:50:26 No "before SDK is released" Oct 01 11:51:25 absolutely Oct 01 11:51:40 but as the first alpha is slated for next month, that gives plenty of time Oct 01 11:51:50 In any case, 8 months from paper to production with no previous OMAP3 designs is kinda short Oct 01 11:52:44 RST38h: how do we know they only started the process 8 months ago? Oct 01 11:53:20 lardman: At the summit they have said there is no concrete plans for the new device design yet, just knowledge fo what would go in Oct 01 11:53:29 nokia are large, from what we were saw at linuxtag they have all kinds of devices hidden away in underground labs and people walking around with maniacal smiles on their faces knowing that they play with stuff we wont see for years Oct 01 11:53:29 oh I see Oct 01 11:53:31 lardman: May 2009 is 8 months from the summit Oct 01 11:54:07 lardman: So, in those months they have to do electrical design (from scratch, no production OMAP3 phones yet) Oct 01 11:54:10 (i say linuxtag because that was our glimpse at the 810w - and the talk was of all the variations) Oct 01 11:54:30 lardman: Have to produce working software (end-user quality), have to do mechanical design and select materials too Oct 01 11:55:10 lardman: have to figure out the exact production process, raw materials to packaging, and push this onto their Chinese manufacturer Oct 01 11:55:17 * lcuk imagines nokias hardware design is akin to "The Matrix" - i need screens, lots of screens Oct 01 11:55:49 Plus all the small stuff - manuals, translations, packaging, marketing crap, developer relations... Oct 01 11:56:19 GeneralAntilles: pong Oct 01 11:56:28 RST38h: i didn't hear the bit about nothing being concrete; I'd assumed they have prototypes already Oct 01 11:56:36 Stskeeps, so, osso-software-version-community. Oct 01 11:56:52 lardman: They said they had a board Oct 01 11:57:15 lardman: Either TI EVB or their own, but it does not really matter Oct 01 11:57:20 I'd like to ship a bootmenu initfs with it. Oct 01 11:57:21 GeneralAntilles: how do you plan? Oct 01 11:57:39 So we'd definitely want to use your .item system. Oct 01 11:57:40 lardman, it seems natural that if they have chosen a basic hardware profile that they have at least seen and playe3d with the capabilities - heh, we might find out that nokiaare planning on bulk ordering thousands of pandoras :D Oct 01 11:58:11 lcuk: Or waiting for pandora guys to belly up so they could buy them off for peanuts Oct 01 11:58:12 GeneralAntilles: yeah, it would make cloning packages etc easier Oct 01 11:58:24 But I'm thinking we need two things. The default needs to boot from NAND by default with a 0 second delay. Oct 01 11:58:38 and we need a control panel applet for setting up the boot volumes. Oct 01 11:58:46 Although it does not really pmatter: Nokia is perfectly capable of using the same reference design from ti Oct 01 11:58:58 RST38h, not their game really, but if the hardware is compatible it would be extremely compelling to have maemo on a gaming oriented device Oct 01 11:58:59 GeneralAntilles: it does that already when no menu activated Oct 01 11:59:17 1sec maybe for keypress Oct 01 11:59:17 RST38h, word on pandora: I think they're close to selling out or have already Oct 01 11:59:31 lcuk: Both Nokia and Pandora use the same design they have got from TI Oct 01 11:59:44 GeneralAntilles: full source is on garage bootmenu Oct 01 11:59:46 lcuk: So, "gaming" is really defined by having a decent d-pad here Oct 01 11:59:47 Stskeeps, yeah, so everybody would have usbnet console by default. Oct 01 12:00:00 johnx: 3000 preorders? Oct 01 12:00:30 RST38h, looks that way. craigix is talking on #pandoradev on efnet Oct 01 12:00:41 nice Oct 01 12:00:45 GeneralAntilles: i would think a recovery menu could be interesting Oct 01 12:00:55 Stskeeps, ah right. Oct 01 12:01:02 That little beauty. Oct 01 12:01:02 johnx_: probably not too surprising after being slashdoted etc Oct 01 12:01:07 This gets better and better. Oct 01 12:01:22 lardman, slashdotted, dugg and a youtube video of ubuntu on the same day :) Oct 01 12:01:27 OK, folks, I want you all to ponder your brains on a community distribution of Maemo. Oct 01 12:01:37 An osso-software-version-community Oct 01 12:01:53 johnx_: I see the front page has been modified to go directly to the sales page :) Oct 01 12:02:03 you mean, with all the relevant kernel patches thrown together? Oct 01 12:02:07 GeneralAntilles: such as gserial, gether, utilities to export LUNs Oct 01 12:02:07 GeneralAntilles, so with the capability to replace some core components, but not all? or completely open source? Oct 01 12:02:33 johnx_, breaking us free from the inflexibility of the current setup Oct 01 12:02:44 well, I hope boot menu is not included with this distribution - it really seems to mess things up for people Oct 01 12:02:47 But not necessarily with the goal of purging non-free components. Oct 01 12:02:53 RST38h, um? Oct 01 12:03:14 GeneralAntilles, hows your beagle, is it back from the vets yet Oct 01 12:03:16 GAN: Check ITT for reports of boot menu being broken/malfunctioning after each system update Oct 01 12:03:26 lcuk, no, still haven't had time to invest in recovering it. Oct 01 12:03:30 May be better to avoid including it by default Oct 01 12:03:33 shame Oct 01 12:03:40 RST38h, you're missing the point. Oct 01 12:03:42 RST38h, yeah, it gets wiped by nokia's updater. it doesn't leave the tablet ubootable Oct 01 12:03:48 ok Oct 01 12:03:49 bootmenu gets wiped by Nokia updates Oct 01 12:03:55 getting wiped is ok with me Oct 01 12:03:59 We're removing Nokia updates from the equation Oct 01 12:04:04 Well Oct 01 12:04:11 How are you gonna stay current then? Oct 01 12:04:48 bbl Oct 01 12:04:52 Basically, SSU update comes out, then we update our stuff within a week of that. Oct 01 12:05:01 IMHO it is a bad idea Oct 01 12:05:07 We're replacing osso-software-version-rx*4 with a much more flexible community version. Oct 01 12:05:09 How about making things compatible with SSU updates? Oct 01 12:05:18 RST38h, that's not a possibility. Oct 01 12:05:19 RST38h: bootmenu .item system would allow resurrecting your full bootmenu easily Oct 01 12:05:26 So that we keep *certain components* but allow upgrading the rest? Oct 01 12:05:27 Stskeeps, right. Oct 01 12:05:39 ok, I guess I was wrong about bootmenu Oct 01 12:05:52 as its both on rootfs and initfs Oct 01 12:05:59 RST38h, we're still pushing Nokia updates, we're just diverting some stuff and adding in our own stuff. Oct 01 12:06:17 synced with refresh_bootmenu.d Oct 01 12:06:21 <_julian> hi Oct 01 12:06:41 <_julian> does someone know if there are plans for making a qt4/maemo release based on newest qt 4.5 snapshots? Oct 01 12:06:41 Stskeeps, what's the threshold for playing with initfs safely as a mounted filesystem? Oct 01 12:06:53 _julian, there are. Oct 01 12:07:00 diablo? no issue Oct 01 12:07:09 Supposedly it'll be beta or so by next year. Oct 01 12:07:14 <_julian> GeneralAntilles: any details? - I'm really keen on testing the speed improvements Oct 01 12:07:19 _julian: as soon as possible. Oct 01 12:07:32 i really wonder why they flash the entire bloody thing Oct 01 12:07:34 <_julian> jott: cool, hopefully that will be really soon (c: Oct 01 12:07:45 Stskeeps, less failure-prone. Oct 01 12:08:07 _julian: yeah we have to think about if using the snapshot or just backporting the rendering core is the way to go. Oct 01 12:08:19 (tablet running out of power, may vanish Oct 01 12:08:24 Stskeeps, I think it'd be a little easier to deal with modifications to the initfs as filesystem changes rather than mucking with mtdutils. Oct 01 12:08:37 <_julian> jott: I guess just using the snapshot will be a less complicated task... Oct 01 12:08:41 (i.e. using the snapshot would also imply porting the hildon changes etc.) Oct 01 12:08:46 no. Oct 01 12:08:50 <_julian> hmm, ok Oct 01 12:08:55 not necessarily .. Oct 01 12:09:41 but maybe i'll try a custom build and see how much performance gain is to be expected .. Oct 01 12:10:37 <_julian> yes, that'll be really cool. right now my apps suffer really under the low qt performance (draing custom list delegates with nice background and formatted text) Oct 01 12:11:12 GeneralAntilles: package overriding initfs_flashet package maybe Oct 01 12:11:41 that patches the incoming image Oct 01 12:12:02 Stskeeps, well, osv-c controls the updates Oct 01 12:12:15 So we just package our initfs up for it. Oct 01 12:12:37 But I'm thinking about when you're modifying .items or editing the bootmenu from a GUI control panel. Oct 01 12:12:53 Flashing those updates is a little tedious. Oct 01 12:13:11 Would just remounting rw, making the changes then going back to ro be better? Oct 01 12:13:17 GeneralAntilles: that's mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs, cp in, under diablo Oct 01 12:13:55 yeah, except its not safe on chinook, which is why i dont do it Oct 01 12:14:03 ~seen mgedmin Oct 01 12:14:06 mgedmin was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 13h 15m 26s ago, saying: '/dev/mmcblk1?'. Oct 01 12:14:31 Stskeeps, well, this is an SSU thing. Oct 01 12:14:36 So Chinook's not an issue. Oct 01 12:14:41 true Oct 01 12:15:23 its just a matter of writing a diablo-refresh-bootmenu.d Oct 01 12:15:47 which cps instead of flash Oct 01 12:16:00 hi, is there an official (or considered safe) repo list for the current tablet? Oct 01 12:16:11 ~extras Oct 01 12:16:12 well, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Oct 01 12:16:31 Stskeeps - hi Oct 01 12:16:36 clone etc scripts write a .item and call refresh_bootmenu.d Oct 01 12:16:44 i got the phone and the n800 to bond... i'm trying to figure out how to bond the su8w Oct 01 12:16:48 so its easily replacable Oct 01 12:17:08 Macer: goodie Oct 01 12:17:36 well... got it to bond Oct 01 12:17:40 didn't get the dun set up yet ;) Oct 01 12:17:45 i will once i get this su8w working Oct 01 12:17:49 GeneralAntilles, the wiki page appears empty, am I alone in seeing this? Oct 01 12:17:59 n800 sucks so bad with the onbaord keyboard heh Oct 01 12:18:15 guerby, refresh. Oct 01 12:18:40 I keep doing it but still blank, let me restart my browser Oct 01 12:18:51 shift-reload Oct 01 12:18:54 It's cached. Oct 01 12:18:58 Macer, yup. I'm actually working on that right now Oct 01 12:19:34 GeneralAntilles: what comunity features would you like to see else? "would you like to run your OS from SD for more app and document space" could prolly be cool Oct 01 12:19:56 Stskeeps, yeah, maybe. Oct 01 12:19:59 Something to think about. Oct 01 12:20:15 iceweasel? Oct 01 12:20:17 :) Oct 01 12:20:25 it has that damn "feature" too huh? Oct 01 12:20:34 Initially, though, we mostly want to break free from that goddamn o-s-v. ;) Oct 01 12:20:39 god that address bar shit is so annoying. i don't see how anybody would think tha twas a good thing Oct 01 12:20:59 Macer, it's good if it doesn't interfere with the onscreen keyboard Oct 01 12:21:18 no.. it is horrible.. half the pages it shows i don't want to look at.. i just want to disable it Oct 01 12:21:20 :) Oct 01 12:21:28 and i don't seen an option to do so Oct 01 12:21:45 Macer, hmm...maybe in about:config. don't look at me though. I love it Oct 01 12:21:51 the web browser will never grasp where i want to go. it might get a couple of them right Oct 01 12:22:02 but it is the most annoying feature i have ever encountered in a web browser Oct 01 12:22:05 GeneralAntilles: im really starting to appreciate sane repos like debians after ssu.. Oct 01 12:22:07 having a community o-s-v would allow much easier ways to distribute custom kernels and not being forced to install stupid pdfs etc. Oct 01 12:22:46 Stskeeps: a sane metapackage would be a way in the right direction :) Oct 01 12:23:01 Macer, you have to learn how to use it right in ff3. You can feed it separate words to match against every URL you visited. So if you can remember any two or three unique parts of a URL you can get there fast Oct 01 12:23:19 that would be grea on an n810 Oct 01 12:23:36 but on an n800 with no qwerty it is a pain to work with when it takes up the whole screen :) Oct 01 12:24:13 plus .. when it pops up it requires double tapping the onboard keyboard Oct 01 12:24:26 Macer, agreed, but I think that can be fixed at the window manager level...hence what I'm trying to do. :P Oct 01 12:25:29 i honestly don't think it will work well on an n800 since the need of the onboard keyboard.. one is going to get in front of the other Oct 01 12:25:40 i'm sure it's great on an n810 Oct 01 12:25:54 that's nice. then just let me work on it, and if I can't make it work, you can say I told you so Oct 01 12:25:57 and it wouldn't drive me nuts once i figured out how to get my su8w working on it Oct 01 12:26:10 heh Oct 01 12:26:12 hello Oct 01 12:26:26 what is that feature called? Oct 01 12:27:02 X-Fade: seen the duplicated favourites on p.m.o? Oct 01 12:28:45 Jaffa: ? Oct 01 12:29:07 Jaffa: What should I see? Oct 01 12:31:42 hm, can i safely symlink /var/cache/apt/archives to /media/mmc2/.apt-archive-cache on my n810? Oct 01 12:32:00 i set the appmanager to not clear its cache Oct 01 12:32:47 For apt-get or for Application manager? Oct 01 12:33:14 apt-get uses .apt-archive-cache it seems Oct 01 12:33:25 the appmanager uses the /var/cacha/apt/archives one Oct 01 12:33:31 oh wait Oct 01 12:33:36 Lame question. Oct 01 12:33:40 Yes, you can symlink. Oct 01 12:33:49 hm Oct 01 12:33:52 That's what we did to get the Diablo SSU betas. Oct 01 12:33:55 still looking for where i can disable this :) Oct 01 12:33:58 * aquatix is confusing himself; apt uses that archives one Oct 01 12:34:05 there's like 2347329874328 things in about:config heh Oct 01 12:34:10 i uses apt-get to pull in most of the updates Oct 01 12:34:22 GeneralAntilles: well, i was thinking about fat filesystem and locks Oct 01 12:34:26 but i think it's ok Oct 01 12:40:09 http://onlyubuntu.blogspot.com/2008/05/how-to-disable-smarter-address-bar-in.html Oct 01 12:40:13 :) hope that works Oct 01 12:40:27 X-Fade: Ah, I know what it was - I had JavaScript disabled through the Web Dev toolbar for work and you get two copies of the heart & thumb. Oct 01 12:40:31 Macer, then it will just be dumb, but still pop up a list :) Oct 01 12:41:47 really? Oct 01 12:42:04 Jaffa, ponder on a osso-software-version-community a bit, will you? Oct 01 12:42:38 browser.urlbar.maxRichResults integer to 0. Oct 01 12:42:43 that should disable the list Oct 01 12:45:51 guess you were right.. but at least now it only has 1 thing.. and it doesn't keep doing it over and over Oct 01 12:51:29 GeneralAntilles: ponder mode - engaged Oct 01 12:52:36 Jaffa, hit the scrollback, but, generally, we're thinking of a community distribution of Maemo. Oct 01 12:52:36 my bad.. just had to go ahead and restart it :) Oct 01 12:56:50 Jaffa: Ponder on categories first! :) Oct 01 13:13:08 deblet is good again :) it works great with my zimbra server.. once i get the su8w working i'll be in business Oct 01 13:13:23 Macer, great to hear! Oct 01 13:13:51 The WDM opcode may be used on future microprocessors. It performs no operation. WDM are the initials of William D. Mensch, Jr., the founder of WDC. Oct 01 13:13:55 Lovely Oct 01 13:14:16 RST38h, reminds me of thedailywtf :) Oct 01 13:14:55 yep Oct 01 13:16:22 X-Fade: indeed Oct 01 13:18:49 The brown stuff's hitting the rotating air circulation device at the moment. Oct 01 13:21:24 <||cw> Jaffa: brownies? Oct 01 13:23:43 ||cw: small, young, girls? Oct 01 13:24:18 <||cw> brown stuff... Oct 01 13:24:50 <||cw> not so sure that girls hitting a fan would remain brown... Oct 01 13:31:25 jaffa, at work or in hobby Oct 01 13:32:45 Hello Oct 01 13:34:51 I was wondering if anyone knew how to setup gizmo with the built in instant messaging client. Oct 01 13:34:54 hi Tann Oct 01 13:39:46 lcuk: work, fortunately. Oct 01 13:43:18 phew jaffa, make sure you hide the evidence ;) and blame a coworker :P Oct 01 13:45:49 bbl Oct 01 13:48:39 hm Oct 01 13:48:51 newegg and tigerdirect are sold out of n810s Oct 01 13:49:01 Macer: amazon? Oct 01 13:49:08 haven't looked yet Oct 01 13:49:33 wonder if they are sold out because they are in that high of a demand or because they are in short production Oct 01 13:51:53 lcuk: they *are* the problem, after all Oct 01 13:56:05 #include Oct 01 14:00:46 Jaffa: Something is happening again? Oct 01 14:06:08 juste updated the n810...let see if it...works. Oct 01 14:06:12 * melmoth cross fingers Oct 01 14:06:54 \o/ Oct 01 14:06:57 * melmoth breath again Oct 01 14:39:55 hi all. I'd like to have Belarusian (be) locale on my n800. where could I get .pot-files for translation? Oct 01 14:40:39 Komzpa: I think you have to make them yourself. As you seem to be the first one from Belarus I see here. Oct 01 14:41:09 Oh, you want to do translation? Oct 01 14:41:15 yes. Oct 01 14:45:01 Komzpa: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_localization_bora.html might be interesting. Oct 01 14:45:34 More recent version: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/maemo_localization_how-to.html Oct 01 14:46:24 Hmm something happened to the last one. Oct 01 14:53:10 Is the webkit in extras only in chinook extras? Oct 01 14:53:33 qwerty12: It is also in the qt4 packages. Oct 01 14:53:34 X-Fade: ok, good, but question about .pot-files is still here. Oct 01 14:53:37 in -devel. Oct 01 14:53:46 X-Fade, Ok, thanks Oct 01 14:53:54 Komzpa, locale files are all over the place in maemo :/ Oct 01 14:53:59 Komzpa: Yes, it seems so. Oct 01 14:54:30 Komzpa, I'll try and find some for maemo Oct 01 14:54:32 Komzpa, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/free/p/posix-locales/ Oct 01 14:55:19 qwerty12: it's a completly different stuff Oct 01 14:55:19 Komzpa, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/free/h/hildon-fm-l10n-public/ - locales for file manager Oct 01 14:55:37 trenka, yeah, gathered, but figured it may help anyway Oct 01 14:55:38 this what he was asking Oct 01 14:56:06 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/free/h/hildon-application-manager-l10n-public/ - for application manager Oct 01 14:56:06 etc Oct 01 14:56:50 okay, where should I send translations back? :) Oct 01 14:57:03 hello Oct 01 14:57:25 hola Oct 01 14:57:54 is someone around able to port Quassel (at least client) to meamo? Oct 01 14:58:05 it uses Qt4 Oct 01 14:58:29 I'm sure there's people around who are able to do the port.. though it's other thing whether anyone is working on that Oct 01 14:58:53 just compiling it for maemo is probably trivial, but would the UI work well on the small screen? Oct 01 14:58:54 but iirc there was some ongoing efforts to port it.. Oct 01 14:58:55 well, it needs qt4 and maybe slight hildonization... it's early devel anyway Oct 01 14:59:04 ~kill windowblinds. stupid piece of shit killed my uxtheme patching Oct 01 14:59:05 * infobot shoots a super-inverse pseudoquark gun at windowblinds. stupid piece of shit killed my uxtheme patching Oct 01 14:59:06 Mek: it will, if XChat does, then quassel will too Oct 01 14:59:07 Mek, yeah, mostly ui stuff I think Oct 01 14:59:36 AStorm, XChat was hildonised for the tablets however Oct 01 15:00:11 only in a minor way I guess Oct 01 15:00:11 quassel has the advantage that qt does quite a lot of the hildonization automatically Oct 01 15:00:16 yes Oct 01 15:00:40 and it's much better than some other irc client over ssh Oct 01 15:00:51 and faster than vnc or rdesktop Oct 01 15:02:29 btw, is there some hildon specific qt classes already available? Oct 01 15:02:50 I think there are some classes for input method stuff Oct 01 15:02:58 but apart from that I don't think anything special is needed Oct 01 15:03:24 fremantle is supposed to bring better qt integration (heh, Trolltech is Nokia's ;P) Oct 01 15:04:03 yeah, hmm Oct 01 15:04:03 http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/ Oct 01 15:04:23 just thinking about what should I code for a programming exercise for a unix programming course :P Oct 01 15:04:36 yeah, I know that garage stuff :P Oct 01 15:04:51 how could I set be_BY locale as default on my tablet? It's not on a list in preferences. Oct 01 15:05:59 I guess one reason why there might not bee a quassel package in extras(-devel) yet is that currently cmake and Qt don't mix very well in the autobuilder/qemu... Oct 01 15:06:28 oh, there's some new wikipage: http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4Hildon Oct 01 15:06:31 http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/screenshots.html Oct 01 15:06:53 nice, qt4 got hildon menus working too Oct 01 15:09:13 yup, seems so :p Oct 01 15:10:09 yeah, qt has taken tha approach of just hildonizgin Qt instead of having to hildonize every Qt application (contrary to the gtk aproach I think) Oct 01 15:10:12 AStorm: the regular quassel sources compile fine for maemo Oct 01 15:11:04 http://egs.name/dev/quasselclient <--- quassel for maemo... though no installer or anything like that... so you need to pull in the qt 4 deps manually Oct 01 15:11:55 my quassel .deb is nearly finished too :P Oct 01 15:12:29 Mek: that's great! I have no clue about packaging and stuff like that... I just compiled it to see if it works Oct 01 15:12:39 Mek, and imho that's the way to go.. using themeing and stuff for everything at once :P Oct 01 15:12:53 eases the pain of 3rd party qt (and kde) devels while porting stuff over Oct 01 15:17:55 http://93.157.1.37/~marijn/maemo/binary/quassel_0.3.0-0ubuntu4~hardy1_armel.deb (and quassel-core and quassel-client), untested though :) Oct 01 15:19:22 um.. je tu nekdo z cesky republiky? Oct 01 15:21:46 test Oct 01 15:21:54 test failed :P Oct 01 15:22:03 oh noez :P Oct 01 15:22:36 Meh, DNS Entries set to your old router and static ip conflict = dodgy internet in linux >.< Oct 01 15:23:20 static IP conflict used to be an ugly crash in windows :) Oct 01 15:23:47 Heh, yeah, ran into one recently at school :) Oct 01 15:35:09 I am inwincable Oct 01 15:35:15 winces? Oct 01 15:35:25 * qwerty12 shoots Jaffa Oct 01 15:35:27 * Jaffa strongly agrees with the Hildonising Qt approach, rather than Hildonising every Qt app. Oct 01 15:35:43 qwerty12: liquid nitrogen would be more appropriate, I think Oct 01 15:35:51 * KotCzarny prefers light apps and deps Oct 01 15:35:53 Hehe :) Oct 01 15:36:28 also nitrogen + shooting afterwards can also be funny Oct 01 15:36:35 * qwerty12 admits that I've never seen GoldenEye :/. I think the only Bond I've seen is Casino Royale >.< Oct 01 15:44:01 qwerty12, good choice Oct 01 15:44:38 :) Oct 01 15:49:24 Might be interesting to somehow use everywhere on the tablet: http://ajaxian.com/archives/i-like-big-targets Oct 01 15:49:45 "I like big……" - Seriously... Oct 01 15:52:44 hi everybody Oct 01 15:52:56 - everybody: No such nick/channel Oct 01 15:59:18 . Oct 01 16:01:01 KotCzarny: if you have spare time, could you build quassel for maemo? Oct 01 16:01:15 i'm in waking up mode still Oct 01 16:01:16 AStorm: EgS linked you to a binary for maemo Oct 01 16:01:24 qwerty12: really? Oct 01 16:01:36 AStorm: yeah. I can't give you the link as I was in windows when I saw it Oct 01 16:01:52 AStorm: and I linked to .debs Oct 01 16:01:57 [17:09:57] http://egs.name/dev/quasselclient <--- quassel for maemo... though no installer or anything like that... so you need to pull in the qt 4 deps manually Oct 01 16:02:16 AStorm: http://93.157.1.37/~marijn/maemo/binary/quassel_0.3.0-0ubuntu4~hardy1_armel.deb (and quassel-core and quassel-client), untested though :) Oct 01 16:03:04 will that work on maemo at all? :> Oct 01 16:03:14 AStorm: if there is interesst in it I can put a quasselclient binary for maemo in our nightly builds Oct 01 16:03:17 those are maemo debs I just built Oct 01 16:03:23 just based on the ubuntu packages Oct 01 16:03:38 ubuntu source packages that is Oct 01 16:04:17 AStorm: jeah it works... though I think it needs some tweaking... should probably pull in less backlog then the desktop client Oct 01 16:04:33 and the settings dialog pretty... *cough* cramped :) Oct 01 16:05:22 I'll check it out (after tinyurl and type on n810 ;P) Oct 01 16:07:54 * Jaffa resorts to Google to find out what quassel *is* Oct 01 16:08:07 quassel is an Qt4 based irc client :) Oct 01 16:08:14 heh Oct 01 16:08:18 Oooh, detaching. Oct 01 16:08:36 with a split client / core architecture so it's like irssi + screen in a gui Oct 01 16:08:47 Nice Oct 01 16:08:50 hmm, interesting Oct 01 16:08:59 does it have other toolkins clients too? Oct 01 16:09:03 Is there an ncurses client for the core? Oct 01 16:09:03 toolkits Oct 01 16:09:06 Sounds nice actually, may try it out on the desktop :) Oct 01 16:09:07 Snappsih Oct 01 16:09:11 KotCzarny: nope Oct 01 16:09:18 not yet Oct 01 16:09:22 you can write one :> Oct 01 16:09:25 hehe Oct 01 16:09:38 Hmm. Running a highly visible IRC client at work's not really viable; a nice small screen window is :) Oct 01 16:09:44 but yes, having core--client arch is nice in any program Oct 01 16:10:02 not always Oct 01 16:10:03 Jaffa: no curses client... though we offer statically linked windows build (just download and run it), pre build mac os client and our linux client managed to slip into the major distros Oct 01 16:10:05 graphi Oct 01 16:10:21 pointless for graphics editors :> Oct 01 16:10:26 astorm: not true Oct 01 16:10:32 command line scripts Oct 01 16:10:37 see gimp Oct 01 16:10:38 :) Oct 01 16:10:48 not client-server :> Oct 01 16:10:59 I broke apt...I removed /var/cache/apt/archives/partial and now it won't install anything Oct 01 16:11:08 well, but illustrates that it could be useful Oct 01 16:11:08 :) Oct 01 16:11:17 dick-richardson: just mkdir it as root Oct 01 16:11:28 just creating the directory doesn't work Oct 01 16:11:34 as root Oct 01 16:11:36 worked for me when I did it :/ Oct 01 16:11:45 dr: what's the error message? Oct 01 16:11:49 using apt-get Oct 01 16:11:56 what file perms did you give it? Oct 01 16:12:22 E: Archive directory /var/cache/apt/archives/partial is missing. Oct 01 16:12:39 maybe you've made a typo? Oct 01 16:13:22 not beyond me...lemme try again Oct 01 16:14:30 chmodding it to 777 fixed it :) Oct 01 16:16:47 apt-cache clean would be good to have Oct 01 16:17:01 ? Oct 01 16:17:13 I thought it was apt-get clean? Oct 01 16:17:40 Ah, I see what you mean. Oct 01 16:21:07 backup Oct 01 16:21:14 * KotCzarny sends backup Oct 01 16:21:27 er...thought I was at the terminal...sorry Oct 01 16:21:41 re Oct 01 16:21:42 sometimes it makes no difference Oct 01 16:21:59 is possible to 'activate' a wifi connection via commandline ? Oct 01 16:22:10 hrw|gone: when you're back, could you extend your QWERTZ keyboard layout with chr+t as ź? Oct 01 16:25:10 AStorm: qwertz is not mine Oct 01 16:25:12 (or maybe chr+u) Oct 01 16:25:22 hmm? so whose? Oct 01 16:25:34 pawel dys? Oct 01 16:25:43 AStorm: n810.pl team Oct 01 16:25:50 O.o Oct 01 16:25:52 ah, I thought that was you... my mistake :) Oct 01 16:26:09 bye Oct 01 16:26:37 L0cutus: If it is already configured, dbus-send --type=method_call --system --dest=com.nokia.icd /com/nokia/icd com.nokia.icd.connect string:$1 uint32:0 Oct 01 16:27:16 is there an easy way to view the alt-text for images? Oct 01 16:27:44 rather than wget-ing the index file :P Oct 01 16:53:16 matan, yes, already cfg, thanks, i'll try :) Oct 01 17:02:33 * lcuk is hungry Oct 01 17:02:49 got kitchen lock? Oct 01 17:03:59 * moontiger munches trail mix Oct 01 17:13:17 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12700&contentId=27458 Oct 01 17:13:20 "To further enable UI, gaming or graphics centric applications development on the OMAP architecture, TI and Imagination offers OMAP processor-based Graphics SDK and Tools that are available for download via extranet." Oct 01 17:13:30 hrm Oct 01 17:13:54 did anyone else notice that diablo improved battery life? :P Oct 01 17:14:34 kulve, but isn't it that nokia will have to provide libs? Oct 01 17:14:54 i saw that page before Oct 01 17:14:59 except that page lies Oct 01 17:15:02 it's all NDAized Oct 01 17:15:47 that too, probably Oct 01 17:16:05 It seems to be talking about emulation for testing, and specifically says OMAP 2420 is not supported in Linux. Oct 01 17:16:24 emulation and testing is not that important Oct 01 17:16:29 No kidding. Oct 01 17:16:36 seriously. Oct 01 17:17:10 and ti stated numerous times that it's nokia who has to provide libs and kernel module Oct 01 17:17:30 yes yes Oct 01 17:17:38 except they can't open the module ;P Oct 01 17:17:56 they don't even provide binary one :P Oct 01 17:18:04 and they have to modify it to work well with epson chip Oct 01 17:19:07 ok, where do I get libqt4* stuff from? Oct 01 17:19:11 (hildonized) Oct 01 17:19:16 extras-devel Oct 01 17:19:27 hmmh :) ok, I'll try it Oct 01 17:20:21 I'd like to get one of those beagleboards with OMAP3530 :P Oct 01 17:20:34 they are expensive :| Oct 01 17:20:54 beagleboards aren't that expensive Oct 01 17:21:26 120$ or how was it? Oct 01 17:21:32 $150 is pretty reasonable compared to what older devboards that were half as fast used to cost Oct 01 17:21:35 dirt cheap for the stuff you're getting Oct 01 17:21:58 look at how expensive VIA Mini itx boards are :P Oct 01 17:22:15 well Oct 01 17:22:24 but you have to provide your own casing Oct 01 17:22:30 which wouldn't be that sexy Oct 01 17:22:50 unless you put some skill and/or effort into it Oct 01 17:23:10 we'll be having a professor in architecture make one for my work Oct 01 17:23:11 :P Oct 01 17:23:13 that assuming one has carpentry skills Oct 01 17:23:23 KotCzarny: casing exists though Oct 01 17:23:24 do they have spots for screws? Oct 01 17:23:35 stskeeps, link? Oct 01 17:24:01 http://www.specialcomp.com/beagleboard/index.htm Oct 01 17:24:05 * johnx_ pictures a beagleboard samndwiched between two pieces of plexiglass Oct 01 17:24:18 or that would work too Oct 01 17:24:19 :P Oct 01 17:24:33 johnx_: you're a whore for plexiglass Oct 01 17:24:37 no lcd, huh Oct 01 17:24:51 Navi, nah, I'm a whore for lexan. that stuff rawks Oct 01 17:24:51 yeah, connect with hdmi :P Oct 01 17:25:04 Navi, I showed you my old car, right? Oct 01 17:25:09 :P Oct 01 17:25:10 Nope Oct 01 17:25:23 plexi car? Oct 01 17:25:24 O.o Oct 01 17:25:25 funny, my n810 gps is grabbing a sat in an antique brick building ;P and I'm at 1st floor Oct 01 17:25:39 no fix though ;P Oct 01 17:25:57 Navi, behold and be terrified: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/compdscn2966.jpg Oct 01 17:26:42 You're a horrible person Oct 01 17:26:44 die Oct 01 17:26:49 lol Oct 01 17:26:58 Navi, I drove it 1,000 miles like that Oct 01 17:27:02 >_> Oct 01 17:27:11 lol Oct 01 17:27:48 what a fashion statement ;) Oct 01 17:27:57 well...I got a great deal on it because it had been involved in a *little* fire. some things needed to be ... repaired before I could drive it home...from San Francisco to Seattle Oct 01 17:28:47 the awesome part was busting the rest of the ruined windshield out in a Home Depot parking lot, before I had actually bought the title to it Oct 01 17:28:47 :/ Oct 01 17:31:10 Navi, I took good care of it after buying it. As far as I know someone else is still driving it Oct 01 17:31:24 * lcuk burps Oct 01 17:31:39 Mek: no libqt* in extras-devel of diablo Oct 01 17:32:33 AStorm: hmm? http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/q/qt4-x11/ lists plenty of packages Oct 01 17:33:12 Hi there Oct 01 17:33:53 hey gnuton Oct 01 17:33:58 hi GNUton Oct 01 17:33:59 hey jott! :) Oct 01 17:34:05 hey Mek!: Oct 01 17:34:18 what's the status of QMake guys? Oct 01 17:34:19 just compiled the vanilla 4.5 snapshot of today :) Oct 01 17:34:31 jott: Oh wonderfull Oct 01 17:34:45 jott: do you have tried it on the device? Oct 01 17:34:45 a bit of troubles though. Oct 01 17:34:49 yes. Oct 01 17:35:09 jott: the GV is more faster than before or not? Oct 01 17:35:19 Mek: weird, it still says these are missing Oct 01 17:35:27 i have not run many tests. Oct 01 17:35:31 but will try. Oct 01 17:35:44 jott: there is a example in the demo module Oct 01 17:35:49 yer. Oct 01 17:35:59 you can use it to test the GV Oct 01 17:36:19 * jott starts with colling mice :) Oct 01 17:36:30 yes it is! Oct 01 17:36:56 colliding that is Oct 01 17:37:00 I remember that colliding mice was really slow. Oct 01 17:37:53 jott: Do you have checked the code in order to see if there are many changes? Oct 01 17:38:31 wow, that beagleboard case rocks Oct 01 17:38:34 AStorm, http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/qt4-diablo-devel.install this *should* work Oct 01 17:38:35 GNUton: not the important ones to qimage afaict :) Oct 01 17:38:36 If there is a real increase of performance I guess to integrate it in our port. Oct 01 17:38:45 i haven't checked qgv. Oct 01 17:38:51 k Oct 01 17:38:56 erm qpixmap/qimage Oct 01 17:39:02 Mek: funny, the packages are there, but application manager says they're not available or whatnot Oct 01 17:39:20 so afaict it will still convert to 32bpp :( Oct 01 17:39:30 jott: :( Oct 01 17:39:33 but overall widget performance has increased Oct 01 17:39:33 AStorm: and you're sure you have extras-devel enabled? (perhaps the recent upgrade disabled it?) Oct 01 17:40:01 jott: So I need to try it! :) Oct 01 17:41:01 I have it enabled. and the libqt* packages show up Oct 01 17:41:47 GNUton: yeah i wonder how we should proceed. as in backport the important changes to 4.4 or adapt the hildon stuff to work with 4.5. Oct 01 17:41:49 AStorm: the application installer shows to you only the packages with the section "user/$subsection" Oct 01 17:41:54 the .install file tries to add it again, wth? Oct 01 17:42:02 GNUton: not in redpill Oct 01 17:42:11 in the end the overall work should be less if we directly integrate in 4.5 :) Oct 01 17:42:45 jott: I guess that moving the stuff to the 4.5 is more easier than backport the 4.5 changes to the 4.4 Oct 01 17:42:52 yer Oct 01 17:42:57 i agree Oct 01 17:42:57 jott, how much of a difference does cpufreq changes effect qt? Oct 01 17:43:02 jott: I don't know if is it stable... or not. Oct 01 17:43:08 lcuk: good question. Oct 01 17:43:24 * lcuk uses his words wisely ;) Oct 01 17:43:24 mmm i can't 'see' my mmc1 anymore after a crash even i have fscked it Oct 01 17:43:26 Hi lubyou! :) Oct 01 17:43:31 any idea ? Oct 01 17:43:48 Mek: btw, care to build svn snapshot of quassel too? (because it's been improved, e.g. clickable urls) Oct 01 17:43:53 L0cutus: df shows it mounted? Oct 01 17:44:18 lcuk: what do you mean with cpufreq? do you want to scale the cpu frequency? Oct 01 17:44:27 no KotCzarny Oct 01 17:44:32 only mmc2 is mounte Oct 01 17:44:34 d Oct 01 17:44:43 L0cutus: then just open/close battery cover Oct 01 17:44:45 or something Oct 01 17:44:49 or mount manually Oct 01 17:44:52 i have n800 Oct 01 17:44:57 i know Oct 01 17:45:04 quassel? I want quassel on my device!! :) Oct 01 17:45:07 gnuton, hi btw, in my coding with liqbase I Have noticed certain things can gain speed by quite a high margin if the cpu is set to performance Oct 01 17:45:10 the mmc1 is on the 'border' not on the back Oct 01 17:45:22 then open/close it's switch Oct 01 17:45:33 in the default "ondemand" setting the cpu slows back down as soon as you lift your stylus Oct 01 17:45:46 * moontiger sips tea Oct 01 17:45:55 * lcuk waves atall his buddies Oct 01 17:45:56 anyway even removed/inserted, my n800 give me the message 'memory card available' Oct 01 17:45:58 lcuk: of course, the problem is that switching to performance the device use a lot of power.. Oct 01 17:46:02 but it doesn't mount it Oct 01 17:46:08 gnuton, i use performance all day long Oct 01 17:46:09 L0cutus: dmesg|tail Oct 01 17:46:16 maybe it's totally unusable Oct 01 17:46:16 :> Oct 01 17:46:18 its worth the question Oct 01 17:46:21 lcuk: O_o Oct 01 17:46:28 Mek: it is still failing Oct 01 17:47:04 I'll try with apt directly Oct 01 17:47:13 lcuk: at nokia there are people who can kill me if the cursor blink too much in Qt!! Oct 01 17:47:18 gnuton, the cpu still has idle states and things and it manages to get things done quicker - obviously that depends on tasks but give it a try - its a simple flip switch test that you could then look more closely at if it works Oct 01 17:47:38 GNUton: tell those people that the cursor blinks at the desktop search widget :p Oct 01 17:47:38 gnuton, thats a different issue - thats sending data to a whole other component Oct 01 17:47:46 yer i noticed that jott Oct 01 17:47:47 (the hildon one) Oct 01 17:47:59 blinking is abomination Oct 01 17:48:01 :> Oct 01 17:48:07 and take your camera with you for extra fun with the fatality move :D Oct 01 17:48:17 i receive several EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled Oct 01 17:48:18 jott: :) Oct 01 17:48:29 gnuton, refreshing the screen means the LCD controller is awake and busy moving tonnes of data around, but general cpu processing may be different Oct 01 17:48:36 L0cutus: look through whole output Oct 01 17:48:41 starting from the end Oct 01 17:48:49 Mek: apt-get says "depends libqt4... but is not going to be installed" Oct 01 17:48:51 wth Oct 01 17:49:05 liqbase includes a big CPU settings area which is easily accessible and lets the user decide :) Oct 01 17:49:07 dunno what is this messammci-omap mmci-omap.1:command timeout (CMD8) Oct 01 17:49:18 it's when you take out the card Oct 01 17:49:22 normal Oct 01 17:49:31 lcuk: ok, but how many hour more can you gain switching your device to power save? Oct 01 17:49:52 AStorm: which package are you trying to install? Oct 01 17:49:53 a shit load - but everything goes real slow Oct 01 17:50:05 jott: quassel Oct 01 17:50:07 KotCzarny, no other message about my card Oct 01 17:50:24 gnuton, i should have a package in the next 2-3 days for liqbase, you can then see the differences firsthand Oct 01 17:50:24 AStorm: and quassel depends on what lib? Oct 01 17:50:25 L0cutus: it's vfat, right? Oct 01 17:50:28 on my pc i can see it Oct 01 17:50:31 AStorm: hmm... probably there is some other dependency that I missed :) Oct 01 17:50:32 no, ext2 Oct 01 17:50:35 if you are brave you can build from source Oct 01 17:50:35 looks like qt is not able to install, masked or sth Oct 01 17:50:38 * GNUton learned to pronunce "quassel" thanks to Jott!:) Oct 01 17:50:45 L0cutus: try to mount it manually then Oct 01 17:50:52 Mek: no no, the problem is not that it doesn't find these Oct 01 17:51:02 it doesn't "want" to install them Oct 01 17:51:06 as if these are locked or sth Oct 01 17:51:35 KotCzarny, '...failed' Oct 01 17:51:45 missing modules? Oct 01 17:51:52 broken memory card.. Oct 01 17:51:53 ? Oct 01 17:51:55 AStorm: there is no "libqt4" package.. just "libqt4-gui" / "libqt4-core" / etc Oct 01 17:52:06 l0cutus: lsmod|grep ext2 Oct 01 17:52:10 before the crash it worker ok Oct 01 17:52:29 jott: yes, it deps on libqt4-{dbus,network,sql,sql-sqlite} and libqt{core,gui}4 Oct 01 17:52:36 KotCzarny, no result Oct 01 17:52:38 no module Oct 01 17:52:42 then load module first Oct 01 17:52:47 and apt says "not going to be installed" Oct 01 17:52:52 or copy them from /mnt/initfs to /lib/modules Oct 01 17:53:00 and then it will load automatically Oct 01 17:53:06 can you apt-get install libqtgui4 ? Oct 01 17:53:08 ok, thanks, i try Oct 01 17:53:20 AStorm: ^^ Oct 01 17:53:45 jott: says same for libaudio2 and libqtcore4 Oct 01 17:54:46 GNUton: Thanks for closing the qt4 repo on garage btw! :) Oct 01 17:55:12 evening X-Fade :) Oct 01 17:55:23 GNUton: You were the second green bar in: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories ;) Oct 01 17:55:44 why would that ever be a good idea? Oct 01 17:55:53 Hi lcuk. You didn't remove your admin again, did you? :) Oct 01 17:56:00 jott: ahha! previous failed install of quassel (w/o extras) made a mess Oct 01 17:56:06 had to remove quassel :> Oct 01 17:56:08 yay, my repository is so external it isn't even in that list :) Oct 01 17:56:09 heh no, and I even managed to push new source to the repo :) Oct 01 17:56:27 woo hoo, i'm not on that list Oct 01 17:56:28 :P Oct 01 17:56:30 lcuk: Good ;) Oct 01 17:56:48 Stskeeps: Well, I don't expect your debian packages to be in extras ;) Oct 01 17:56:51 heh yeah, i blame the general for flustering me Oct 01 17:57:14 lcuk: Shotgun .. foot .. aim ;) Oct 01 17:57:26 lcuk, these are serious accusations. can you backup your claims of this... "flustering"? Oct 01 17:57:26 X-Fade: honestly, if debootstrap, zenity and roxterm gets in, i'd push deblet installer to extras Oct 01 17:57:33 well it was listing what we do - i am a developer. :$ Oct 01 17:57:44 X-Fade: and some of the stuff from tools, like, .. binutils Oct 01 17:57:52 * lcuk whistles quietly Oct 01 17:57:55 Stskeeps: Oh sure. But I don't expect the complete debian repo in there ;) Oct 01 17:58:00 ofcourse not Oct 01 17:58:29 KotCzarny, modprobe: cannot parse modules.dep Oct 01 17:58:29 I guess I'll have to install qt manually Oct 01 17:58:42 and besides X-Fade it needs more rolesany project jott is involved in need to list him as "superhero" Oct 01 17:58:42 Stskeeps: But sure, add all useful applications. Oct 01 17:58:58 L0cutus: depmod -a Oct 01 17:59:00 lcuk: Hmm I guess we don't have that role yet. Oct 01 17:59:26 ahem Oct 01 17:59:29 L0cutus: btw. did you put them in the right place? Oct 01 17:59:29 -sh: depmod: not found Oct 01 17:59:30 :) Oct 01 17:59:38 /lib/modules/kernel_version/ ? Oct 01 18:00:06 in the worst case just use insmod Oct 01 18:00:21 i haven't a /lib/modules directory :( Oct 01 18:00:24 i forget what module ext2 depends on Oct 01 18:00:30 *forgot Oct 01 18:00:37 mbcache Oct 01 18:01:10 L0cutus, it's in initfs Oct 01 18:01:36 insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/$(uname -r)/mbcache.ko Oct 01 18:01:39 repeat for ext2.ko Oct 01 18:01:39 cp -a /mnt/initfs/lib/modules /lib Oct 01 18:01:43 should do the trick Oct 01 18:01:52 or ln to save valueable space Oct 01 18:01:53 ok, i try Oct 01 18:02:03 yeah, ln -s would work too Oct 01 18:02:17 ok, now installing qt4-qtconfig (pulls all the qt it seems) plus libqt4-sql-sqlite :> Oct 01 18:02:23 johnx: i don't care about space because i run os from sd Oct 01 18:02:24 :) Oct 01 18:02:34 KotCzarny, not everyone doe Oct 01 18:02:35 s Oct 01 18:02:41 AStorm: are you pushing quassel in extra-devel? Oct 01 18:02:42 * lcuk hasnt seen kot runnin anything on a tablet for months :P Oct 01 18:02:45 but evveryone is advised to do so Oct 01 18:02:58 KotCzarny, I advise them to run debian off of SD :) Oct 01 18:02:59 lcuk: that's because you don't see me in the loo :P Oct 01 18:03:24 heh - contact nokia and tell them about that usage case Oct 01 18:03:25 KotCzarny, you've been in the loo for months? I'm sorry to hear that... Oct 01 18:03:30 :) Oct 01 18:03:32 no Oct 01 18:03:39 lcuk didn't see me there Oct 01 18:03:45 ok Oct 01 18:03:52 which doesn't imply me not being there Oct 01 18:03:53 ext2 is on Oct 01 18:03:54 :) Oct 01 18:04:26 "dear nokia, i was using my n810 whilst on the latrine, however due to an unfortunate mishap i dropped it down the bowl. could you tell me how much to replace the screen and also extract bits from the cameraport Oct 01 18:04:38 but why it doesn't automount anymore ? Oct 01 18:04:55 L0cutus: because it need module to be loade3d? Oct 01 18:04:59 *needs Oct 01 18:05:07 before the crash it does Oct 01 18:05:17 maybe you have loaded it manually Oct 01 18:05:19 and forgot Oct 01 18:05:21 i haven't load manually the module Oct 01 18:05:25 nono Oct 01 18:05:27 you did Oct 01 18:05:37 just reinstalled my diablo Oct 01 18:05:38 because nothing autoloads ext2 by default Oct 01 18:06:35 * L0cutus investigate :) Oct 01 18:06:43 thanks for now ! Oct 01 18:06:45 KotCzarny, it used to at some point Oct 01 18:06:46 Mek: I gess we need cmake in extras-devel first? Oct 01 18:07:17 X-Fade: cmake is in extras-devel already... Oct 01 18:07:43 Mek: Then you are not using it in Build-Depends? Oct 01 18:07:48 johnx: only if you had custom initfs? Oct 01 18:08:00 KotCzarny, that would be a negative Oct 01 18:08:06 and now quassel is installing Oct 01 18:08:07 X-Fade: but the cdbs stuff for cmake is not getting installed somehow... Oct 01 18:09:00 I guess the cdbs version in scratchbox is too old or something.. Oct 01 18:09:04 Mek: you need to force the cdbs version. Oct 01 18:09:05 Mek: Hmm indeed. It is there. Weird. Oct 01 18:09:11 jott: how do you force that? Oct 01 18:09:21 Mek: like: debhelper (>= 5) Oct 01 18:09:22 just with (>= 0.45) Oct 01 18:09:36 (or better the right version) Oct 01 18:09:49 :) Oct 01 18:10:07 yawn. Oct 01 18:10:37 Mek: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/c/cdbs/ Oct 01 18:10:46 0.4.52 it is :) Oct 01 18:10:51 i was close Oct 01 18:10:55 okay :) thanks Oct 01 18:19:20 GeneralAntilles: You didn't see it coming, but there it is: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2008-October/002875.html Oct 01 18:20:23 GeneralAntilles: Or at least the start ;) Oct 01 18:23:23 GNUton: not pushing yet, but it can surely go there :) Oct 01 18:23:32 works after manual installation of all the qt :P Oct 01 18:24:30 except I have to remember that quassel password I just set Oct 01 18:24:34 well i guess we just solved the show-stopper for getting it in extras :) Oct 01 18:26:43 says to me "username/password combination could not be found in the database: Oct 01 18:26:52 my quassel core is latest svn Oct 01 18:33:03 Hurray, I recovered from post-SSU reboot loop Oct 01 18:34:39 Mek: could you please build 0.3.0.2 of quasselclient? Oct 01 18:35:19 zap, neat trick. how'd you manage? Oct 01 18:35:31 installed bootmenu for the new initfs Oct 01 18:35:40 then mounted the root jffs2, chrooted to it Oct 01 18:35:46 and did dpkg --configure --pending Oct 01 18:35:48 zap: it's easy, just dpkg --configure -a Oct 01 18:35:52 yep Oct 01 18:36:06 I don't know why, but app manager did not configured all packages Oct 01 18:36:28 that's really strange that it's putting people into reboot loops. I rebooted during my upgrade process and it just finished on the next boot... Oct 01 18:36:43 accidentally of course Oct 01 18:36:52 people says most probably because of space Oct 01 18:36:54 those.. hackers! Oct 01 18:37:04 it rebooted for me when the blue progress bar was about 1cm away from the right edge of the screen Oct 01 18:37:32 I have 25Mb free on rootfs Oct 01 18:38:09 still, mce doesn't want to --configure Oct 01 18:38:15 even after I booted correctly Oct 01 18:40:21 yes, I noticed Oct 01 18:40:38 it happens even if you installed the SSU normally? Oct 01 18:41:19 heh, I had 0 problems with the update Oct 01 18:41:25 no, I just helped to one friend to recover once Oct 01 18:41:40 moo all Oct 01 18:42:05 I mean, I did not check the normal update Oct 01 18:42:06 in fact, mce is the only package left unconfigured Oct 01 18:42:07 anybody know if it's possible to get a new battery door cover? Oct 01 18:42:10 i also had no problem with the update. fortunately i never use the app manager :) Oct 01 18:42:32 if, say, I experiment with mine by gluing an external battery to it, I want to know that I can replace it. Oct 01 18:42:35 \ Oct 01 18:43:04 these transatlantic flights are a bit much without an external battery. Oct 01 18:43:06 hi all. Oct 01 18:43:08 nelson: i am sure it's possible. it's probably just a matter of price and knowing where to get it ;) Oct 01 18:43:24 jott: yeah, I was just wondering if anybody had tried it yet. Oct 01 18:43:29 Are there any solution (except unlocking osso-software) to fix the pre-installed-documentation-rx44 problem? Oct 01 18:43:37 nelson: there is a ready made high capacity battery. Oct 01 18:45:07 so, I'm working on a test app in the scratch box... what rights the app has after installing? The app tries to delete a .desktop file and on the tablet the delete fails... Oct 01 18:45:10 any ideas? Oct 01 18:46:39 you can't delete anything outside of /tmp and /home/user Oct 01 18:46:48 everything else is owned by root Oct 01 18:47:02 and there is no way around it? Oct 01 18:47:09 nope Oct 01 18:47:15 you're most probably doing something wrong Oct 01 18:47:20 :> Oct 01 18:47:21 you don't have to delete anything Oct 01 18:47:27 ion_cu_vaca, why do you need to delete that file? Oct 01 18:47:52 jott: URL? Oct 01 18:49:34 well, zap is right that deleting that file is not the right thing to do, but I want to do it anyway... I want to automate the change mac for the wayfinder after a new install (I'm sick of doing it in terminal)... Oct 01 18:49:36 :-) Oct 01 18:49:40 pssst Oct 01 18:49:53 then do it as root Oct 01 18:50:14 install some package which gives you the right to switch into the root account Oct 01 18:50:23 the app works fine so far, but I have to delete the .desktop by hand... and then my app will create the new one Oct 01 18:50:50 ion_cu_vaca, run your app with set-uid permissions Oct 01 18:51:17 ion_cu_vaca: another possibility is to set up a cron task, which will run your app once a week Oct 01 18:51:35 you won't have even to bother about it Oct 01 18:51:36 johnx_, i don't know what is that, i'm a windows programmer... so I don't know exactly what set-uid is Oct 01 18:51:53 jo Oct 01 18:52:24 ion_cu_vaca, basically it makes the app run with root aka administrator permissions. which is fine if it's just for you Oct 01 18:52:43 and how do I do that? Oct 01 18:53:28 chown root my-file Oct 01 18:53:32 chmod u+s my-file Oct 01 18:54:11 basically "change the owner to root" then "give the program the permissions of whoever owns it, rather than whoever runs it" Oct 01 18:54:54 well, I made a .deb, I actually install my app on the tablet. can I do that so when I install the .deb the app is owned by root? Oct 01 18:55:16 ion_cu_vaca, yes, just do that before you make the deb Oct 01 18:55:38 that's not enough Oct 01 18:55:39 jott: Google doesn't know of a high capacity BP-4L. Oct 01 18:55:47 <||cw> the ownership s based on the UID of the files you package Oct 01 18:55:47 ohh, I understand. I pack in the deb the exe with the root permisions Oct 01 18:55:49 your program also has to call seteuid(0) to get root perms Oct 01 18:55:50 right? Oct 01 18:56:02 with suid permissions Oct 01 18:56:11 suid Oct 01 18:56:13 <||cw> he didn't run as root, just owned by root Oct 01 18:56:23 ok, I'll try Oct 01 18:56:28 oops...sorry for confusion Oct 01 18:56:36 the suid bits says that your program *can* gain root priviledges if it calls a special function called seteuid() Oct 01 18:57:05 ion_cu_vaca, is this c code or just a shell script? Oct 01 18:57:34 nelson: it wasn't a bp-4l.. erm Oct 01 18:57:50 johnx_ c Oct 01 18:58:40 jott: external battery? Oct 01 19:00:21 nelson: http://shop.eten.hu/mugen-power-3600mah-extended-battery-for-nokia-n810-with-battery-door-blue-p-475.html Oct 01 19:00:24 this one. Oct 01 19:02:17 gogo netsplit Oct 01 19:07:05 jott: thanks, that looks very cute! Oct 01 19:12:52 hrm. reflashed with the update from a day or two ago and .... I get continual reboots. Anybody else seen this? Oct 01 19:13:08 nelosn I am not Oct 01 19:13:26 good thing /me did a backup, eh? Oct 01 19:13:29 but I updated via apt Oct 01 19:14:42 I updated using the GUI. Oct 01 19:15:42 hmm, what's the root password for the Maemo SDK VMWare Appliance? Oct 01 19:16:59 never mind Oct 01 19:19:33 nelson: there seem to be lots of people having problems. Oct 01 19:19:53 as woglinde i updated via apt and had no troubles :) Oct 01 19:20:19 i guess only people using app manager have serious problems :p Oct 01 19:20:22 from the x terminal or via ssh'ing in? Oct 01 19:20:29 ssh/screen Oct 01 19:20:47 icd2 installation will drop the connection :) Oct 01 19:26:38 the pandora really looks way interesting.. Oct 01 19:26:47 and i just got a 810.. :( Oct 01 19:26:51 who wants some? Oct 01 19:26:59 how much? Oct 01 19:27:44 riot, the N810 is a perfectly cromulent device...and it's going to be a lot more polished than the pandora will for quite a while Oct 01 19:27:56 ok, one more question Oct 01 19:28:14 not to mention it's smaller too Oct 01 19:28:15 :) Oct 01 19:28:26 KotCzarny: thats the only real argument Oct 01 19:28:33 might as well just get a netbook ;) Oct 01 19:28:34 well Oct 01 19:28:39 the pandora is waay faster, i'd say Oct 01 19:28:44 if you wanted gaming machine, then you should get psp Oct 01 19:28:52 I had to reflash my tablet and now I can't ssh from linux in it because the rsa key was changed Oct 01 19:28:53 not buying this for gaming. Oct 01 19:29:14 MangoFusion: netbook doesn't fit in my pockets Oct 01 19:29:19 pandora might Oct 01 19:29:20 riot: what is your usage case then? Oct 01 19:29:24 get bigger pockets Oct 01 19:29:26 :) Oct 01 19:29:33 <||cw> ion_cu_vaca: delete the key from the file, the error tells you the file name and the line number Oct 01 19:29:34 ion_cu_vaca, do like it says in linux, open up your ~/.ssh/known_hosts file and remove the offending line Oct 01 19:29:48 * KotCzarny has ibm x40 for mobile needs and n800 for pocket needs Oct 01 19:30:09 KotCzarny: gps, jabber, browser, mail, various linux-servers, diverse wireless operations (like warwalking) Oct 01 19:30:26 KotCzarny: bigger pockets are way unattractive Oct 01 19:30:42 riot, then depending on your browser needs n810 is just perfect Oct 01 19:30:51 KotCzarny: hmm. Waay slow. Oct 01 19:30:57 and not very comfy Oct 01 19:31:05 scrolling is dumb as brick Oct 01 19:31:20 apart from that, its nice as it is gecko Oct 01 19:31:23 riot, compared to a desktop/laptop? or compared to some other device? Oct 01 19:31:25 i got adblock :D Oct 01 19:31:26 then wait for liqbrowser Oct 01 19:31:33 adblock slows it down a lot... Oct 01 19:31:39 * lcuk looks around Oct 01 19:31:48 i'm going to coerce him to make liqbase + gecko mix Oct 01 19:31:53 and speeds it up. Many pages won't even work without adblock. Flash is a browserkiller Oct 01 19:32:17 johnx_: nice use of "cromulent" :D Oct 01 19:32:19 riot, yeah, I disable flash on anything I touch Oct 01 19:32:26 dont need to convince me kot, just find someone confident and comfortable with a www rendering engine and ill collaborate and give whatever assistance i can Oct 01 19:32:33 well Oct 01 19:32:38 ive been looking for something for a while Oct 01 19:32:45 me may talk to current browser maintainer Oct 01 19:32:50 johnx_: i really only use it for youtube et al.. so I'd rather prefer a whitelist-system - but i don't have such a thing. You know something? Oct 01 19:32:52 webkit can render onto an opengl surface... Oct 01 19:32:56 or to webkit port people Oct 01 19:33:06 riot, not for microb Oct 01 19:33:12 riot, I use flashblock on the desktop Oct 01 19:33:14 fair enough, if you have old middle none released sources you will see theres the startings of a html parser ;) Oct 01 19:33:24 johnx_: yea, noscript + adblock here Oct 01 19:33:26 :) Oct 01 19:33:41 still, the pandora looks veeery interesting Oct 01 19:33:41 lcuk, :) Oct 01 19:33:43 i wanted live demo for the summit but ran out of time Oct 01 19:33:55 riot, agreed. that's why I preordered one :) Oct 01 19:33:56 tables parsing will get you :> Oct 01 19:34:08 sad thing is the very dumb gps in the 810.. if that one would work well.. hmm things would be different Oct 01 19:34:20 theres lots of gotchas, but i wanted something workable - even if it was only handy for html book reading Oct 01 19:34:54 anyway, this is very sidtracky, ive had to give up on that stupid sshfs for tonight Oct 01 19:35:08 lcuk: yes, but using gecko there is a chance for full browser without compromises Oct 01 19:35:09 :) Oct 01 19:35:11 thank you for trying though, got more important things to worry bout Oct 01 19:35:28 yes kot, but that will expect lots of things which still may not exist Oct 01 19:35:31 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=229421&postcount=17 <- for the 770 users Oct 01 19:35:55 Stskeeps, w000t Oct 01 19:41:19 got quassel to work :) Oct 01 19:41:42 it is *slow*, because Qt4 throws tons of debugging into to stderr Oct 01 19:42:14 >/dev/null ?:) Oct 01 19:49:34 won't help I think Oct 01 19:49:48 2>/dev/null ?:) Oct 01 19:50:49 http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/?nda <- neat Oct 01 19:51:08 all ndas suck :) Oct 01 19:51:38 AStorm: I don't think it's only due to the debugging output ;) Oct 01 19:52:04 http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE4907WT20081001 <=== tomorrow's market crash reason Oct 01 19:52:17 well, it takes time to draw options Oct 01 19:52:21 hehe Oct 01 19:53:59 where can I get the smaller versions of default themes? Oct 01 19:54:14 wanna nuvo-clear ? Oct 01 19:54:21 I mean, smaller font Oct 01 19:54:26 yes, it uses smaller font Oct 01 19:54:29 ~9px Oct 01 19:54:43 how could I type belarusian cyrillic letter ў on n800? Oct 01 19:55:02 and you can also modify it per-app in .gtkrc Oct 01 19:55:27 (assuming you hack it in theme) Oct 01 19:56:40 btw, is that xournal in extras-devel ok now? Oct 01 19:57:11 canola b10? Oct 01 19:57:44 looks like canola b10 isn't really ready yet Oct 01 19:57:49 or it wasn't earlier Oct 01 19:57:54 I imagine we would have heard something Oct 01 19:58:00 earlier Oct 01 19:59:00 AStorm: i had issues with xournal a couple of days ago Oct 01 19:59:07 still one package is missing Oct 01 19:59:11 python2.5-terra Oct 01 20:09:44 Kompza: What is the problem with typing C? Oct 01 20:16:59 * sp3000 wonders if that charset fail happened on in or out Oct 01 20:17:15 * sp3000 throws a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_short at RST38h for good measure Oct 01 20:21:44 Is it possible to write a control panel plugin in python? Oct 01 20:21:50 yes Oct 01 20:21:56 any samples? Oct 01 20:21:57 i think Oct 01 20:22:08 don't remember the name Oct 01 20:22:18 could be status bar plugin, hum Oct 01 20:22:22 scratch that then Oct 01 20:22:23 :) Oct 01 20:25:09 hmm Oct 01 20:25:29 it seems that even pidgin 2.5.1 fails at gadugadu Oct 01 20:25:36 I mean, maemo one Oct 01 20:26:05 works on x86 and x86_64 Oct 01 20:26:38 astorm, but ekg works right? Oct 01 20:30:37 nice. got a very dim screen for a second, then *poof* reboot Oct 01 20:34:49 hi all Oct 01 20:42:08 wouldn't it be more sensible to put /var/cache/apt on /media/mmc2 ? Oct 01 20:42:14 well.. got the su8w going in deblet Oct 01 20:42:24 this is absolutely awesome heh Oct 01 20:42:24 no, because not evey nit has /media/mmc2 Oct 01 20:42:32 not mmc1 Oct 01 20:42:33 most everything that would go into that directory is going to land in / . Oct 01 20:42:37 all i have to do now is figure out the dun for the phone :) Oct 01 20:42:45 lcuk, n800 doesn't have soldered sd Oct 01 20:42:55 i kno - i meant to type "nor" Oct 01 20:43:00 :) Oct 01 20:43:01 * lcuk fails Oct 01 20:43:13 your fail is noted Oct 01 20:43:17 damn Oct 01 20:43:28 but .... the n800 comes with an SD card ... so why not say "put the SD card we shipped into the slot". Oct 01 20:43:35 ok, the xournal in extras-devel is broken Oct 01 20:43:43 nelson, not evey n800 comes with a card Oct 01 20:43:47 ;) Oct 01 20:43:51 toolbar doesn't switch pen type Oct 01 20:43:54 especially second hand ones Oct 01 20:44:24 yeah, but EVERY n800 can get their hands on an SD card. They're available at every corner store. Oct 01 20:44:38 nelson, still, it's not always available Oct 01 20:44:47 and i'm running os from sd Oct 01 20:45:00 so i don't want it to be using any of /media/mmc* dirs Oct 01 20:45:08 KotCzarny: okay, so then the alternative is to try to do upgrades from a full partition into a full partition. Oct 01 20:45:12 you may hack it for your needs Oct 01 20:45:17 no one is stopping you Oct 01 20:45:19 :) Oct 01 20:45:32 of course, I'm am teh wizard. But what about everybody else? Oct 01 20:45:44 the card in my n800 is often a from someone else's camera. I don't want random sribblings on it... Oct 01 20:46:03 ;) Oct 01 20:46:14 I repeat the same alternative: complete failure. Oct 01 20:46:14 nelson, everyone else can hack it too Oct 01 20:46:26 I'd settle for a choice: put in a card or free more space Oct 01 20:46:57 though they wouldn't need so much space if they didn't ship the user manual with every freakin' update... Oct 01 20:47:24 eehehe Oct 01 20:47:25 yeah "insert a card with 32MB free space into the slot" is something anybody can do. Oct 01 20:47:34 no they cant Oct 01 20:48:00 Warning: not enough space: "insert a card" or "cancel and free up some space" Oct 01 20:48:30 there's no reason to require people to use a card for updates if they have enough space on their tablet Oct 01 20:48:58 flexibility is the enemy of standardization. Oct 01 20:49:21 there's a lot to be said for everybody doing something the same way. users can self-help; even the naive ones. Oct 01 20:49:27 ahaha Oct 01 20:49:28 yes, that's why it's hacker's tablet Oct 01 20:49:32 not ipod Oct 01 20:49:33 And we *want* to encourage a culture of self-help. Oct 01 20:49:33 :> Oct 01 20:49:43 (sigh). Oct 01 20:49:50 right now the option is free up space or don't upgrade, but you want only your version of "flexibility"? Oct 01 20:50:17 johnx_: have you ever one tech support? Oct 01 20:50:20 ^done Oct 01 20:50:24 nelson, oh yes Oct 01 20:50:39 I put in a card but it doesn't work! Oct 01 20:50:44 ;) Oct 01 20:50:46 then you know that every time you have the ask the user a question it's like biting glass. Oct 01 20:51:04 later you'll find it has random bad sectors or is generally sketchy Oct 01 20:51:10 ah, the sweet internet search engines Oct 01 20:51:17 what would we have done without them Oct 01 20:51:18 :) Oct 01 20:51:19 how many times have we had problems with SD card access on the n8x0 hardware? Oct 01 20:51:29 that's why dpkgs have an md5sum. Oct 01 20:51:41 nelson, and you want to explain that to users? Oct 01 20:51:48 well any card but *that* card Oct 01 20:51:51 how many n810 users don't know why their 2gb internal card is corrupting? Oct 01 20:51:52 :> Oct 01 20:51:53 go buy another one Oct 01 20:52:06 technical shit not working? No need to explain THAT to people. Oct 01 20:52:19 nono, that card must not work right with linux, get a sandisk, but not this model of sandisk Oct 01 20:52:38 ah, you're using a microsdhc card in an adapter...well make sure it's tight Oct 01 20:52:52 no, users need to free some space. that is a concept you can teach them about at least Oct 01 20:52:54 are you using right slot? Oct 01 20:52:57 or left? Oct 01 20:52:58 :) Oct 01 20:53:04 * GeneralAntilles lights luck's hair on fire. Oct 01 20:53:06 \no, your right Oct 01 20:53:24 see! i told you u were evil Oct 01 20:53:30 anyways, it doesn't matter. you don't have to convince us, just nokia, so go file a bug report Oct 01 20:53:30 yes, right is the one you use with spoon Oct 01 20:53:39 oh, you are left handed? Oct 01 20:53:42 :> Oct 01 20:55:04 Nokia's response is usually "Oh, that's not in the specification, so we can't change the software." Oct 01 20:55:52 easiest solution: drop the stupid pdfs from the upgrade :) Oct 01 20:55:58 jott++ Oct 01 20:56:00 jott, get to work. :P Oct 01 20:56:04 * biiter finaly ordered N810 today Oct 01 20:56:06 * jott hides Oct 01 20:56:20 yeah, everybody speaks English anyway. Oct 01 20:56:37 nelson, drop *all* the PDFS Oct 01 20:56:59 * nelson looks away while johnx_ deletes *all* the PDFs. Oct 01 20:57:06 muahaha Oct 01 20:57:12 "pdfs? what pdfs?" Oct 01 20:57:15 * johnx_ deletes all PDFs, everywhere! Oct 01 20:57:32 * nelson restores them from backup. Oct 01 20:58:06 thank got nelson, i couldnt do without the pdf newsletter i get: "midgets n cream" ? Oct 01 20:58:10 god^ Oct 01 20:58:14 I should be working. Oh, wait, I'm compiling C++. That qualifies as work. Oct 01 20:59:08 yes Oct 01 20:59:09 * lcuk continues his slow glacial crawl to the top of the mountain Oct 01 20:59:35 * johnx_ is impressed with lcuk's mountainside internet connection Oct 01 20:59:46 as i am ascending i have to go round big crags and solve stupid problems \@/ Oct 01 21:00:05 I played that game at school on a Mac O_o Oct 01 21:00:10 satellite, the higher up i get the less the latency is Oct 01 21:00:36 hurrah ive finally got an ssh key on n2 Oct 01 21:00:50 but electrons are slower in lower temps Oct 01 21:00:51 :P Oct 01 21:01:32 dont worry, they are still faster than me with these big gloves on and only an n810 keyboard Oct 01 21:03:22 lcuk: mind you, you could use two n810 keyboards to speed up :D Oct 01 21:03:39 rub them together? Oct 01 21:03:45 use em as flint to light a fire? Oct 01 21:04:03 Great, now the Mozilla guys are CCing me on Fennec bugs. <_< Oct 01 21:04:13 hahaha Oct 01 21:04:26 lcuk: see which one breaks first when you drop them and by that pick the more reliable one? Oct 01 21:04:39 with great power.. Oct 01 21:04:45 heh Oct 01 21:05:05 i will not teach my devices evolution Oct 01 21:05:09 hm Oct 01 21:05:18 no pgup on su8w Oct 01 21:05:19 and anyway - my fujitsu would win, its cartwheeled down the stairs beforenow Oct 01 21:05:22 heh Oct 01 21:05:37 audacious segfaults Oct 01 21:05:45 audacious is a cow Oct 01 21:05:47 in deblet Oct 01 21:05:53 have any suggestions? Oct 01 21:05:58 use xmms? Oct 01 21:05:58 :O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O Oct 01 21:06:11 * jott thinks lcuk seems to support intelligent design over evolution :D Oct 01 21:06:25 how about intelligent evolution Oct 01 21:06:27 :) Oct 01 21:06:27 i'll see about xmms Oct 01 21:07:00 mace: i'm partially kidding, but as long you don't hate gtk1 it's nice Oct 01 21:07:01 but for now i have to get the bt dun going Oct 01 21:07:16 KotCzarny .. i could care less as long as it plays mp3s Oct 01 21:07:21 ;) Oct 01 21:07:22 it does Oct 01 21:07:24 mpd? :) Oct 01 21:07:33 even my ncurses gui to mplayer plays Oct 01 21:08:02 but the bt dun is way more important right now.. but deblet is working out pretty good Oct 01 21:08:31 there's always mplayer for mp3s if all else fails but i haven't even tested the sound yet Oct 01 21:09:12 it would have beeen kinda sweet if audacious didn't segfault Oct 01 21:09:48 ah well.. i have to go to sleep for a little bit... i'll work on the dun later Oct 01 21:10:13 :) Oct 01 21:20:12 blah Oct 01 21:52:56 hey, where are the settings of osso xterm stored? Oct 01 21:53:27 (I want to set font size to 14pt, which is missing from the dropdown) Oct 01 21:53:54 gconf Oct 01 21:54:11 hi all Oct 01 21:54:11 mhm Oct 01 21:57:12 blah Oct 01 21:57:25 there's no gconf-editor in diablo extras Oct 01 21:58:12 Just grab it from Chinook. Oct 01 21:58:24 obviously Oct 01 21:58:38 and bash whoever is not porting packages Oct 01 21:58:43 e.g. XFade Oct 01 21:58:58 Um Oct 01 21:59:06 It's up to package maintainers to move their own damn packages. Oct 01 21:59:11 That's not X-Fade's job. Oct 01 21:59:26 so, who's maintaining that? Oct 01 21:59:38 AStorm, check the maintainer field, maybe? Oct 01 21:59:58 how? (my apt is still rusty) Oct 01 22:00:15 Either look at the info in application manager Oct 01 22:00:16 * moontiger reads "apt-fu and other arts" Oct 01 22:00:23 you can also use gconftool-2 to change gconf entry in a term Oct 01 22:00:25 or apt-cache show gconf-editor Oct 01 22:00:36 melmoth: if I know it Oct 01 22:01:59 gconftool -R /apps/osso Oct 01 22:02:14 will list you all the key for the osso application (luckyly osso xterm is in it) Oct 01 22:02:25 from then, you may guess the key you want to change Oct 01 22:04:03 * moontiger takes notes... Oct 01 22:10:26 worked well :) Oct 01 22:28:54 is ir me or is dbus really difficult to grasp ? Oct 01 22:29:01 it's you Oct 01 22:29:28 hmmm Oct 01 22:29:50 would you know how to be automatically alerted whenever the tablet si connected to a network ? Oct 01 22:30:00 i can see what happen with dbus-monitor. Oct 01 22:30:04 nope, but there is a lib for that Oct 01 22:30:05 i think Oct 01 22:30:14 But i m lost when i try to figure out how to have a callback for this event Oct 01 22:30:38 yep, sure there are tons of libs... dbus,osso or the glib dbus wrapper Oct 01 22:31:05 i m trying to use the glib wrapper as they say you are asking for trouble if you use the dbus one directly Oct 01 22:31:27 no Oct 01 22:31:39 the lib that uses hildon Oct 01 22:31:47 to get notified about connectivity Oct 01 22:31:54 that s libosso Oct 01 22:31:59 libconsomething Oct 01 22:37:43 i remember conic Oct 01 22:37:50 that was the name Oct 01 22:38:53 it has python bindings too Oct 01 22:38:54 hehe Oct 01 22:39:18 python-conic Oct 01 22:39:26 or, libconic Oct 01 22:39:31 Use ConIC API (libconic0) instead. Oct 01 22:39:42 in maemo 4 Oct 01 22:47:38 i want to use dbus, because i m not interested in network only. Oct 01 22:47:55 i would like to have callback when the gps is on or off, as well as when the cam is on or off Oct 01 22:48:23 plus, i would really like to learn how to use dbus, this stuff seems to be important :) Oct 01 22:48:26 :) Oct 01 22:48:49 in that case, i wish you luck in learning Oct 01 22:48:56 and don't forget to write a howto :) Oct 01 22:49:13 if there is none about it on maemo.org Oct 01 22:49:48 there is one , with client and server. but it hurts my head. Oct 01 22:50:10 i will have to study it more. Oct 01 23:06:47 hi again Oct 01 23:07:12 is there anyway to remove telepathy-haze? Oct 01 23:23:02 milfhouse Oct 01 23:23:03 :) Oct 01 23:33:32 haha Oct 01 23:46:06 http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/21361/?a=f Oct 01 23:46:07 hehe Oct 02 00:02:45 When are all the awesome new battery technologies people keep talking about actually gonna hit the market. . . . Oct 02 00:03:45 GeneralAntilles, when consumers start buying things based on battery life Oct 02 00:04:05 or when electricity starts costing x10 Oct 02 00:04:08 ;) Oct 02 00:04:09 johnx_: That will never happen. Oct 02 00:04:21 You don't think a 10-hour Core 2 Duo laptop wouldn't sell like hotcakes? Oct 02 00:04:26 It's impossible for consumers to have any real idea what something's battery life is without having already bought it. Oct 02 00:04:31 derf, btw. have you seen that 16gb microsd? :P Oct 02 00:04:38 Because everyone lies. Oct 02 00:04:42 KotCzarny: No. Oct 02 00:04:45 it was real Oct 02 00:04:51 sandisk announced it few days ago Oct 02 00:04:59 available through few stores only Oct 02 00:05:05 GeneralAntilles, I think a cheaper 3 hour one will sell more Oct 02 00:05:06 bestbuy and something Oct 02 00:05:22 GeneralAntilles, because one already exists. it's called a lenovo x200 w/ 9cell Oct 02 00:05:45 New battery tech, no bigger batteries. :P Oct 02 00:05:50 s/no/not/ Oct 02 00:05:51 GeneralAntilles meant: New battery tech, not bigger batteries. :P Oct 02 00:05:56 The fact that Li-ion batteries degrade substantially within a year doesn't help sell things by battery life, either. Oct 02 00:06:09 no they don't if you store them right Oct 02 00:06:14 GeneralAntilles, and it will be more expensive...just like bigger batteries, and people will buy cheap crap instead Oct 02 00:06:20 actually I think it has something to do with most people not imagining their own use cases very well Oct 02 00:06:23 KotCzarny: You mean, no they don't if you don't _use_ them. Oct 02 00:06:28 :) Oct 02 00:06:30 Which kind of defeats the point. Oct 02 00:06:34 lol Oct 02 00:06:35 well, yeah Oct 02 00:06:37 ;) Oct 02 00:06:47 nimh don't degrade Oct 02 00:06:48 The statusbar packages seem to be following two naming schemes Oct 02 00:06:50 I don't care what the life of my battery is while it's in a box. Oct 02 00:06:59 osso-statusbar-blah or hildon-status-bar-blah Oct 02 00:12:18 KotCzarny: Sure they do. But at least it takes a thousand discharge cycles or so. Oct 02 00:12:37 But they're energy density sucks. Oct 02 00:12:39 *their Oct 02 00:12:52 well, i though you were talking about 100% charge storage Oct 02 00:13:05 which would affect 5-30% of battery capacity yearly Oct 02 00:13:09 in li-ion Oct 02 00:13:34 and sitting in idle device also counts as (nearly) idle storage Oct 02 00:13:46 No, I'm talking about the fact that after a year, a battery that used to last 6 hours fully charged lasts 2. Oct 02 00:14:22 at least we have rechargeables Oct 02 00:14:41 Yeah, I'll grant you it's better than trying to use alkaline for everything. Oct 02 00:15:03 or lithium cells Oct 02 00:15:12 But Li-ion is just a tad more expensive, too. Oct 02 00:15:12 which also seems to be popular Oct 02 00:15:27 in their lifetime? Oct 02 02:22:50 hey guys I have a program that is being run by init.d at run level 2. the program is being called by su users -c "program". When the program is run the power button no longer works. Any idea why. btw the program is calling dbus Oct 02 02:26:25 could it be possible that the dbus entry is entering at too low of a level and the device is locking? cause the daemon for the power button is running correctly and the dbus msg's are being passed Oct 02 02:37:05 no one? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 02 02:59:57 2008