**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 02 02:59:57 2008 Oct 02 04:00:26 how could I compress my GPRS traffic? Oct 02 05:14:50 Hey. Anyone there? Oct 02 05:14:54 nope Oct 02 05:15:44 I'm trying to find an Instant Messneger like pidgin, but more light weight for my n800. Anyone know of one thats abailable? (And If it could be closed to the system tray, that would be great) Oct 02 05:16:01 Just use the built-in one? Oct 02 05:16:28 instant messengor to what network? Oct 02 05:16:35 *which Oct 02 05:16:45 because there are a few Oct 02 05:16:48 AIM MSN Yahoo and IRC Oct 02 05:16:51 preferably Oct 02 05:17:07 how do you like ncurses clients? Oct 02 05:17:08 Tann, just install the rtcomm beta. Oct 02 05:18:49 ok. I'll look at it Oct 02 05:18:50 thanks Oct 02 05:37:41 moo all Oct 02 05:50:38 GeneralAntilles: I can't install it because It can't find a new enough version of libpurple0 and telepathy. Any help? Oct 02 05:51:22 i havent had any luck with rtcomm beta, i just installed all the telepathy packages Oct 02 05:55:20 Grab the Collabora repo. Oct 02 05:59:07 hm Oct 02 05:59:16 i got the bt keyboard working... stil have to get the bt dun to work :) Oct 02 05:59:53 hehe Oct 02 06:00:12 Stskeeps Oct 02 06:00:23 for the bt keyboard... do i have to set up a cron for it or smethign? Oct 02 06:00:31 doesn't seem to reconnect when i turn it off and back on by itself Oct 02 06:00:36 no clue, what do you have to do for it? Oct 02 06:00:47 had to manually edit the bluez config files Oct 02 06:00:57 add the keyboard mac and run hidd --search to initialize it Oct 02 06:01:11 i just followed the debian howto .. but it doesn't say anything about making it automatically reconnecting Oct 02 06:01:16 it says it should just with what i did Oct 02 06:01:22 you're welcome to find a good way for it, this is new territory ;) Oct 02 06:01:27 heh Oct 02 06:01:31 well.. i have to get the dun working first Oct 02 06:01:42 for now i'll just manually start it up until i get the dun working Oct 02 06:01:55 keyboard is low priority as long as it works ;) Oct 02 06:02:44 i'm pretty sure the dun should just work with the script you have.. i just had to set up bluez to allow the dun and i already bonded the n800 and the phone Oct 02 06:03:03 i guess the kb doesn't automatically request a connection from the n800 Oct 02 06:03:29 i'm sure it's just a bluez option i have to change :) like maybe set up the kb as the master instead of the n800? Oct 02 06:03:35 blah. i'll figure it out later Oct 02 06:28:37 well Oct 02 06:28:41 going to try out this dun now Oct 02 06:29:14 well.. never mind Oct 02 06:29:19 i think i have to do more bt setup for it Oct 02 06:29:22 wow this is a pain :) Oct 02 06:32:15 ah well... i need to go do stuff anyways.. i'll work on it more tomorrow.. Stskeeps ... i'll set up the vhost tomorrow to. I have like 3TB left on it so that should be enough. Oct 02 07:12:34 morning all Oct 02 07:12:46 morning Oct 02 09:08:09 Morning, all Oct 02 09:08:29 morn' Oct 02 09:40:32 hi, what are maemo runlevels? Oct 02 09:40:58 off, idle, crashing Oct 02 09:41:33 reboot loop also Oct 02 09:41:58 yeah, but it's subnode of crashing Oct 02 09:42:15 hehe Oct 02 09:52:45 nite nite Oct 02 10:19:32 hmm, if i disable the watchguard reset, my tablet shouldn't restart by itself, right? Oct 02 10:20:42 right Oct 02 10:21:14 oddly enough it is Oct 02 10:21:20 maybe i missed something Oct 02 10:21:35 does it show the r&d screen when you boot up? Oct 02 10:21:55 i should note i am trying to compile some code on it (which compiled before) Oct 02 10:22:08 could be the OOM killer? Oct 02 10:22:09 its got the funny tablet with a spanner icon Oct 02 10:22:44 maybe i should turn h Oct 02 10:22:47 the swap on Oct 02 10:22:51 that might help Oct 02 10:24:54 ok, attempt #102 Oct 02 10:25:06 :D Oct 02 10:42:13 hi guys... I'm trying to install scratchbox, but it looks like scratchbox.org is down. Oct 02 10:43:09 There's no response on ping, and when trying to run the maemo-scratchbox-install_4.1.1.sh it gets stopped in its tracks when it starts trying to get the packages from scratchbox.org Oct 02 10:43:50 Is this a known thing? Is there another place to get the diablo scratchbox? Or is someone fixing the scratchbox.org server problem? Oct 02 10:44:57 lishevita: It works for me? Oct 02 10:45:36 ok... NOW it works. Oct 02 10:45:48 All I had to do was come to irc, apparently. :-p Oct 02 10:46:36 thanks, X-Fade Oct 02 10:46:43 That's just how it works. It won't work until you complain in public. :) Oct 02 10:46:49 lishevita: Well, I did nothing. :) Oct 02 10:47:05 Yeah, but, you know, you checked and didn't ignore my sorry bee-hind. Oct 02 10:47:54 lishevita: Well, I could actually get it fixed if it were broken. So it is in my interest field ;) Oct 02 10:49:46 ToyKeeper: yeah, my bleeding ego wants to paste the 100% packet loss response from my terminal window to show I'm not a ditz, but my netiquette is better than that. :) Oct 02 10:50:04 All is well that ends well, I've got it loading now. Oct 02 10:50:29 Oh, I have the same problem all the time. I just have to ask in public and then either I figure out an answer, or whatever was broken starts working. Oct 02 10:52:50 X-Fade: eeks! It's giving me the error again all of a sudden: Failed to fetch http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo4-sdk/main/binary-i386/scratchbox-toolchain-host-gcc_1.0.8_i386.deb Could not connect to scratchbox.org:80 (62.61.85.37). - connect (111 Connection refused) Oct 02 10:54:49 lishevita: Works for me too? Oct 02 10:55:46 does canola automatically downloads cover arts? Oct 02 10:58:46 lishevita: It seems that work is going on on that server, so that can explain it. Oct 02 11:10:53 X-Fade ah-ha. i'll chill a bit, then Oct 02 11:19:30 There... finally remembered to send in a fitaly layout. Oct 02 11:28:23 woo, finally compiled Oct 02 11:36:41 _marcell_, ping. Oct 02 11:36:53 <_marcell_> GAN800: pong Oct 02 11:37:18 _marcell_, can you ponder a bit on the possibility of having a non-free section in the tableteer update repo? Oct 02 11:38:10 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: do you mean like separating the updates to free and non-free? Oct 02 11:39:26 Well, I think we can leave the primary part that SSU uses alone (leave all packages in there), but a separate section with just non-free stuff would be useful. Oct 02 11:40:20 <_marcell_> ok, so it should contain a subset of the updates section, right? Oct 02 11:40:25 Exactly Oct 02 11:40:40 diablo-2/non-free sort of deal Oct 02 11:40:58 (or whatever scheme is appropriate and convenient) Oct 02 11:42:02 <_marcell_> ok, I personally do not see any problems with that. But I will have to push through the idea. Could you tell me a bit more on the why part? Oct 02 11:42:54 GeneralAntilles: seems like a good reaction from qqil Oct 02 11:43:05 https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_Community_distribution Oct 02 11:43:38 _marcell_, the free stuff we'll be able to redistribute separately, but the non-free stuff we (of course) can't. Oct 02 11:44:10 We could just fetch it from the regular update repo, but that means users will be exposed to the Nokia updates before the community has time to react to a new push. Oct 02 11:44:30 So users in Red Pill or using apt-get could end up in a bad situation. Oct 02 11:45:10 So it'd be preferable to use a tableteer repo which only has non-free components, so users aren't exposed to so many potentially problem-causing packages when an update is first pushed. Oct 02 11:45:40 Stskeeps, well, he of all people is the type to be positive about that sort of stuff. ;) Oct 02 11:47:06 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: ok, I got it. I will spread the message and I will use the discussion on the wiki page if I will have something to say Oct 02 11:47:21 _marcell_, thanks! Oct 02 11:50:44 "I'm using iodine in an airport, so I won't include a link," Oct 02 11:50:47 tablet users in a nutshell Oct 02 11:50:52 Hehe Oct 02 11:50:59 i should really install that though Oct 02 11:52:48 http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/trunk/packages/non-free/stlc45xx-cal/debian/postinst <- i'm definately going to hell Oct 02 11:52:59 (i would honestly say that's a fair way to include stlc45xx-cal in a dist.) Oct 02 11:53:41 hi! does someone have any idea about a certain - Unable to find include file: "keybindings.rc" - error when trying to run applications like pdf-viewer or marbles in the emulator? Oct 02 11:53:47 Ha Oct 02 12:01:23 Hi! I need the cups clien on the Nokia. Is there probably an unofficial APT repository where i can download cups packages for diablo? Oct 02 12:01:57 hm Oct 02 12:02:19 someone gave me an older amd64 box Oct 02 12:02:28 it's like a socket 754 :) Oct 02 12:03:18 cuse set uop sratchbox and try to compile the debian package Oct 02 12:03:21 or ubuntu Oct 02 12:03:45 cuse Oct 02 12:03:52 woglinde: ah you mean to grab the cups source package from the official debian APT repo? Oct 02 12:03:53 they have cups for an n800 out there already Oct 02 12:04:17 but most maemo apps don't support it. penguinbait has made a kde install which also has cups Oct 02 12:04:27 i have used it with open office in kde and printed fine on my brother laser Oct 02 12:04:57 i am sorry i dont have a link for it... i am working on making my n800 web site but it probably won't be up for a while Oct 02 12:05:38 but i know for an absolute fact there is a cups distro out there.. it takes up a lot of space though so you should boot off an sd to install it... i was only able to install it on the flash with the bare minimum on it Oct 02 12:06:10 distro wouldn't be the right word for it but you know what i'm talkinga bout.. it is a deb Oct 02 12:17:11 Mace the tcp/ip client shouldn't waste so much space Oct 02 12:17:23 for cups working you do not need a working local server Oct 02 12:30:02 cuse: i pushed cups into extras-devel Oct 02 12:31:12 jott: ah, what would the source.list line be? Oct 02 12:31:14 jott hehe Oct 02 12:31:29 jott with tcp/ip client in own package? Oct 02 12:31:53 woglinde: just the debian split build Oct 02 12:31:57 cuse: deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ diablo free non-free Oct 02 12:32:01 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/c/cups/ Oct 02 12:32:03 jott: thanks! Oct 02 12:32:09 jott ah yes thats okay Oct 02 12:51:46 hello Oct 02 12:51:56 I want to build python-sdk and it breaks Oct 02 12:52:17 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/86817/ Oct 02 12:52:20 this is a traceback Oct 02 12:54:30 does the file get downloaded correctly? Oct 02 12:55:20 no, I get 404 Oct 02 12:56:02 (this .tar.gz file contains HTML document with 404 in it) Oct 02 12:56:41 well, that's a start Oct 02 12:56:58 yes, fixing URL sounds like a scenario... Oct 02 12:57:15 it moved to subdirectory old/ Oct 02 13:01:24 it should check HTTP response code anyway... Oct 02 13:06:02 probably, but error checking everything you do in a script will easily double the size... Oct 02 13:06:15 well, good Oct 02 13:06:36 johnx_: saw my postinst from hell? Oct 02 13:07:12 not yet, looking at hildon-desktop in debian again though :) Oct 02 13:07:18 hehe, alright Oct 02 13:07:23 http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/trunk/packages/non-free/stlc45xx-cal/debian/postinst ;) Oct 02 13:07:55 johnx_: Nah, you just wrap all your calls in generic functions that do the error checking for you... or in a wrapper class... Oct 02 13:08:22 ccooke, then have your script for downloading and extracting files depend on 20MB worth of libaries? Oct 02 13:08:23 I get /usr/bin/fakeroot: 166: debian/rules: Permission denied Oct 02 13:08:25 what's that? Oct 02 13:08:52 Stskeeps, that's some skeery stuff Oct 02 13:09:17 Stskeeps, I'm sure the postinst that installs Microsoft's webfonts is just as bad though... Oct 02 13:09:39 johnx_: yup, but it works and is honestly a fair way to get the stlc45xx-cal binary, with license agreement and all :P Oct 02 13:10:27 johnx_: um. If it takes you more than a couple of K to write a wrapper script, you really should step back for a second and think about what sort of drugs you're on ;-) Oct 02 13:11:45 ccooke, I guess I misunderstood you... Oct 02 13:13:22 johnx_: any idea? Oct 02 13:13:42 jott: seems that cups-client package depends on "adduser", but there is no such package Oct 02 13:13:44 fijal, ls -l debian/rules Oct 02 13:14:17 -rw-r--r-- 1 fijal fijal 6987 2008-10-02 15:03 python2.5-2.5.2/debian/rules Oct 02 13:14:19 looks good Oct 02 13:14:38 should it be executable? Oct 02 13:14:48 no idea Oct 02 13:15:04 probably Oct 02 13:15:11 but hey, it's the way it was in .tar.gz Oct 02 13:15:13 I remember being able to ./debian/rules in the past Oct 02 13:15:18 * johnx_ shrugs Oct 02 13:15:33 no, it shouldnt Oct 02 13:15:41 helps Oct 02 13:15:51 cuse: eek. Oct 02 13:15:59 I have an adduser package in my own repo.... Oct 02 13:16:10 Mek: push it in extras-devel :P Oct 02 13:16:49 hmm... yeah... I should probably do that... no idea why I didn't... Oct 02 13:18:04 Mek: hmmm ... when would that package be available? Oct 02 13:18:55 cuse: you can either get it from http://93.157.1.37/~marijn/maemo/binary/adduser_3.102maemo1_all.deb or wait for it to be in extras-devel Oct 02 13:20:44 Mek: i pulled your deb file already, thanks! :) Oct 02 13:23:38 johnx_: debian/rules is a Makefile script (look at header) Oct 02 13:23:46 so it's possible to do debian/rules Oct 02 13:23:46 :P Oct 02 13:23:52 i do that in my fancy new installer Oct 02 13:24:25 right, that's what I thought Oct 02 13:24:54 johnx_: I'm confused. you need to run this build (create_tree.py etc.) actually inside scratchbox to get things working? Oct 02 13:25:36 fijal, I'm still not sure exactly what you're doing... Are you following some guide? Oct 02 13:25:50 this one Oct 02 13:25:52 https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?Building PyMaemo SDK&id=40&type=g Oct 02 13:27:33 jott: got the next one: cups-bsd: Depends: update-inetd but it is not installable Oct 02 13:27:38 * Stskeeps ponders idly the consequences of dmsetup and dm-*.o on tablets Oct 02 13:28:29 dm-snapshot looks interesting.. :P Oct 02 13:29:47 actually i only need the classical simple lpr, not the whole cups stuff, is there no lpr package for meamo? which doesnt depend on thousand other packages that dont exist ;) Oct 02 13:31:09 cuse: yeah well just used/tested the "libs" part :P Oct 02 13:31:33 jott: mmm great :) Oct 02 13:31:50 cuse: feel free to improve it :) Oct 02 13:31:54 johnx_: think stuff like LVM snapshots pre apt-get dist-upgrade could be interesting if things fuck up? Oct 02 13:32:05 that would rock for SD-installs of maemo, as well Oct 02 13:32:06 :P Oct 02 13:32:26 I suppose so. I always got by with rsync, but go for it. :D Oct 02 13:32:48 hehe Oct 02 13:33:31 http://linuxgazette.net/114/kapil.html <- seems like you can do a lot of funky stuff Oct 02 13:33:34 Stskeeps, we need an application to create a backup image of the current install and either send it to a computer or one of the cards. Oct 02 13:33:54 Then have a "Recover backup image" option in the graphical recovery bootmenu. Oct 02 13:33:59 does yours n8x0 with 36-5 diablo show samba shares in filemanager? Oct 02 13:34:15 hrw: Yes. Oct 02 13:34:17 GeneralAntilles: do it like norton ghost.. set a flag in initfs, reboot into initfs, initfs notices a command to backup the system, dumps to mtd Oct 02 13:34:28 X-Fade: thx. mine does not ;( Oct 02 13:34:31 fijal, I would say yes, inside scratchbox...but why do you need to build the SDK from scratch? Oct 02 13:34:39 johnx_: for fun Oct 02 13:34:58 GeneralAntilles: dumps mtd to sd i mean Oct 02 13:35:19 johnx_: to learn how to invoke cross compilation Oct 02 13:35:41 fijal: i tried sb+pypy atleast..it was a nightmare Oct 02 13:35:49 i ended up cc'ing part of it on sbrsh Oct 02 13:35:51 more stable Oct 02 13:36:07 fijal, the whole point of scratchbox is to make cross compiling transparent...not the best place to learn about vanilla cross compiles Oct 02 13:36:24 Stskeeps: what do you mean exactly? Oct 02 13:36:32 running pypy inside scratchbox, compiling it or what? Oct 02 13:36:47 johnx_: right Oct 02 13:36:51 using scratchbox, but instead of using qemu-arm, use a tablet for some of the emulation stuff Oct 02 13:37:01 using sbrsh Oct 02 13:37:06 Stskeeps: did you use --platform=maemo as a compilation option? Oct 02 13:37:18 (or how recent you tried it) Oct 02 13:37:32 fijal: this was back in may before you even thought about maemo stuff :) Oct 02 13:37:46 johnx_: I need to be very very careful with paths then Oct 02 13:37:51 Stskeeps: ok :-) Oct 02 13:37:51 (i have an interest in pypy-stackless, so) Oct 02 13:38:13 Stskeeps: kind of works now (using scratchbox). There are still issues to solve though Oct 02 13:38:14 ~seen twaelti Oct 02 13:38:16 GeneralAntilles: i haven't seen 'twaelti' Oct 02 14:06:07 The Vesta, described by Northrop as "a laser weapon that utilizes push-buttons for easy operation", has been delivered to the air force research laboratory's Directed Energy Directorate (DED) raygun shop. Oct 02 14:06:21 push-buttons..yeaaahh! Oct 02 14:08:36 hola Oct 02 14:10:13 hola Oct 02 14:10:54 RST38h: /me imagines a joypad attached to a big laser Oct 02 14:12:54 aquatix: an atari joystick Oct 02 14:13:06 yeah :) Oct 02 14:13:14 exactly what i was thinking Oct 02 14:15:29 and 15kW is hardly enough Oct 02 14:17:04 feh, my adjusted laser pointer does that already Oct 02 14:18:10 those sandisk 8gb micro sdhc should work on the n810 right? Oct 02 14:18:48 * aquatix has one here yeah Oct 02 14:18:55 yes but use the micro-to-mini adapter from a plain micro sd card Oct 02 14:18:59 you need an adapter though Oct 02 14:19:14 just buy a 1GB sandisk microsd and use its adapter Oct 02 14:19:38 I've got a micro to mini adapter already, it's a general one I picked off of dealextreme.com Oct 02 14:20:06 ah, just wanted to post a dealextreme link here :) Oct 02 14:20:11 * aquatix has those too Oct 02 14:20:13 work fine Oct 02 14:21:11 cool Oct 02 14:21:13 that's nice to know Oct 02 14:21:23 :) Oct 02 14:21:31 * aquatix wants a 16 or 32GB microsd Oct 02 14:21:38 all in due time though Oct 02 14:21:54 yep Oct 02 14:22:36 I'm running an update to the cover arts in canola 2 beta but for some reason I don't see a music album updated... I'm guessing there's something I'm missing Oct 02 14:31:20 * RST38h wanrs a raygun Oct 02 14:31:36 we only have needle gun Oct 02 14:31:43 [but all he is gonna get will be a shitty 32GB microSD] Oct 02 14:31:58 * aquatix has a Nerf gun Oct 02 14:33:17 ahhh... an Os2008 feature upgrade of 33mb in size, nice. Will that screw my boot loader again? (I'm booting from internal 1gb sd card) Oct 02 14:33:41 yes. Oct 02 14:33:43 RST38h why a32gb? Oct 02 14:35:04 qwerty12: ough, I don't remember how I recovered last time Oct 02 14:35:14 what? Oct 02 14:35:30 liri: reinstalling bootmenu after you have upgraded both flash and sd :P Oct 02 14:35:38 ah, 'cause it has been on the list Oct 02 14:36:19 I think I use some tool to write the boot loader or something Oct 02 14:37:11 oh yeah, I used install-tools Oct 02 14:37:21 ok... 'night everyone! And good weekend! (Mine starts now. :) ) Oct 02 14:38:16 qwerty: You were the one compiling EMUTools for the tablet? Oct 02 14:41:49 there was a guide on the use of install-tools, does anyone still have the url for that? Oct 02 14:42:07 Just install fanoush's bootmenu. Oct 02 14:42:14 ~boot-sd Oct 02 14:42:15 extra, extra, read all about it, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card Oct 02 14:43:31 RST38h: I will be soon Oct 02 14:43:47 read: trying to Oct 02 14:46:10 andre___, just, fyi, there have been more than a few nokia.com bugs handled through bugzilla. . . . Oct 02 14:46:33 qwerty: Should I just compile 'em and place them into extras? Oct 02 14:46:56 I mean, probably not all of them, but at least bdiff, behead, verifiers, and disassemblers? Oct 02 14:46:58 RST38h: That would be appreciated :) Oct 02 14:47:13 The tool to fix checksums would be nice Oct 02 14:47:16 all righty, shouldn't be too difficult Oct 02 14:47:24 verifiers will do it for you Oct 02 14:47:54 andre___, take http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3067 and http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3066 for instance. Oct 02 14:48:13 * RST38h has been trying to emulate 65816 lately Oct 02 14:59:49 65816... nice cpu it was Oct 02 15:00:43 really evil abomination Oct 02 15:00:53 but will probably run fast enough, faster than arm anyway Oct 02 15:01:14 Ok, where do command line utils go in terms of App Manager categories? user/tools? Oct 02 15:03:37 I'd say tools Oct 02 15:04:01 <||cw> I'd say depends on what it does... if it's a text based console game, it goes under games :) Oct 02 15:04:27 <||cw> lynx would go under internet Oct 02 15:05:36 I'd say go with tools as it seems to be an assortment of tools. disassembler, game rom checksum verification etc Oct 02 15:05:49 'aok Oct 02 15:06:01 to the tools it goes then Oct 02 15:08:12 * qwerty12 goes and makes a nutella sandwich while he waits for webkit svn revision 37184 to compile. and yes, I do realise I could have had the entire tub of nutella by the time it finishes compiling. Oct 02 15:08:51 qwerty haha be lucky that you do not compile a complete qt4 Oct 02 15:09:01 i'd expect lynx under internet myself, for those times when a full browser is too much too slow Oct 02 15:09:09 what is it about every Maemo addict compiling WebKit nowadays? Oct 02 15:09:29 RST38h hm its cool O guess Oct 02 15:09:32 ups I Oct 02 15:09:39 woglinde: lol, yeah, i saw webkit is part of the qt4 in extras now :D Oct 02 15:10:40 RST38h maybee the qt4 version is too old for someone Oct 02 15:11:40 RST38h, it changes quickly Oct 02 15:12:35 RST38h: I'm doing it because I want to see how far Bundyo's Tear browser goes. The webkit in extras now is about 7000 svn revisions out of date. Oct 02 15:15:03 qwerty: Ah I knew it :)) Oct 02 15:15:17 johnx: It is all because of Bundyo :) Oct 02 15:15:39 RST38h, I'm interested in his browser too :) Oct 02 15:15:47 I still like midori though Oct 02 15:16:49 Apparently the Midori guy is gonna work on a mobile version. Oct 02 15:19:45 not really required I would say Oct 02 15:23:50 does it support finger scroll in the mean time? Oct 02 15:24:34 ok, that would be nice :) Oct 02 15:27:15 * qwerty12 sighs as he sees a rickroll adblock blacklist Oct 02 15:28:51 * qwerty12 now knows why it exists. Fucking javascript >.< Oct 02 15:41:31 emjayes is really good at breaking shit. :/ Oct 02 15:50:03 GeneralAntilles, ah, thanks. i'll ping quim to delegate that Oct 02 16:08:33 heu... Oct 02 16:08:35 oups Oct 02 16:09:12 Stskeeps, alright, time for me to check some stuff in at long last :) Oct 02 16:10:17 * qwerty12 's hate of CDBS is increased when I'm compiling with -Os and -O2 >.< Oct 02 16:24:12 johnx_: woo, like? Oct 02 16:24:37 sawfish hacks to make hildon-input-method do mostly the right thing Oct 02 16:24:51 oki Oct 02 16:24:54 it won't resize windows yet, but it will at least sit on top of them Oct 02 16:24:59 in dpkg-buildpackage'able format or? Oct 02 16:25:15 errr...ok, maybe not quite uploadable yet :/ Oct 02 16:25:19 hehe Oct 02 16:25:33 i loathe the things myself :P but it has showed to be a benefit when doing this stuff Oct 02 16:25:49 yeah, it's definitely helpful in the long run Oct 02 16:26:11 I was just using OE again and remembering how much I like it Oct 02 16:27:39 cos of building firmware imgs or? Oct 02 16:28:13 just for packaging Oct 02 16:28:14 pity the nokia touchscreen phone doesn't run maemo ;-) Oct 02 16:29:39 "best colour screen on the phone market" - easy to believe Oct 02 16:30:10 johnx_: dh_make and dch is good tools at least Oct 02 16:30:41 I need to get comfortable with those... Oct 02 16:32:06 tuukah, I can't imagine the horrors carriers would commit against Maemo. Oct 02 16:32:38 "No voip" :) Oct 02 16:33:07 "no changes to core OS components" Oct 02 16:33:19 "signed updates only...when we feel like it" Oct 02 16:33:44 johnx_: Nah, it is just that carriers won't allow certain services on their network. Oct 02 16:33:45 * qwerty12 can't help feeling that we'd get more hackers though. Oct 02 16:33:49 you buy it unlocked without a contract of course Oct 02 16:34:23 X-Fade, I'm just thinking about all those people with WinMo phones who are just now getting 6.1 :) Oct 02 16:34:39 Hmm interesting to see all the new jobs @ maemo.org. Oct 02 16:35:09 It seems Nokia is going to support java too. Oct 02 16:35:26 https://maemo.org/news/jobs/view/1222954866.html Oct 02 16:35:29 :o jobs? Oct 02 16:35:35 I hope they can integrate it nicely... Oct 02 16:35:43 Or shall that be for web services ;) Oct 02 16:36:01 bef0rd: https://maemo.org/news/jobs/ and https://maemo.org/news/jobs/?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nehmer_blog_index_page=2 Oct 02 16:36:16 Or without the https ofcourse ;) Oct 02 16:37:01 Somebody needs to inform them of the new branding. Oct 02 16:38:09 johnx_: i usually just mkdir -p -, write a Makefile with all: clean: and install: into ${DESTDIR}, dh_make -c bsd -s -e your@email, rm debian/*.ex debian/*.EX, make sure to edit Section in debian/control, copy in my copyright file and at new updates, dch -i -m to make sure it has right new version and release :P Oct 02 16:38:42 X-Fade: why on earth does jobs/ require a maemo login? :P Oct 02 16:38:44 Stskeeps, w00! thanks for the short version Oct 02 16:38:55 Stskeeps, s/https/http/ Oct 02 16:38:57 Stskeeps: It doesn't I was pasting the https. Oct 02 16:39:10 X-Fade: i got a login page.. Oct 02 16:39:13 with ttps Oct 02 16:39:29 happened on some other docs before Oct 02 16:39:41 lern2read Oct 02 16:40:24 ah Oct 02 16:40:54 always good to see more UI designers being hired along with programmers Oct 02 17:03:42 anybody fluent with glib timeout ? Oct 02 17:04:07 I do not underestand what happen when i try to add element to a GSList within a timeout: Oct 02 17:04:13 http://pastebin.com/m19695978 Oct 02 17:04:35 append works on non empty list. Prepend alwasy fail. Like if it was erasing the current head. Oct 02 17:06:21 johnx_: i did run aptitude dist-upgrade on your beta3 and it doesn't boot anymore? Oct 02 17:06:56 thux, yeah...that probably replaced a lot of the custom packages I had setup with newer ones Oct 02 17:07:20 thux, that's the reason that Stskeeps' deblet is better :) Oct 02 17:09:44 johnx_: but that doesn't install tried couple of times Oct 02 17:10:09 installer always quits after few hours Oct 02 17:10:22 thux, you're better of working through the problems with installing deblet than investing more time in beta3 Oct 02 17:10:27 what do you mean "quits"? Oct 02 17:10:33 does it give an error message? Oct 02 17:10:49 Does it lose its internet connection? Oct 02 17:11:10 no it leaves few packages unconfigured Oct 02 17:11:39 if you can paste the message we can help you debug it...but it's difficult without knowing more Oct 02 17:11:57 thux: get the 2.3 installer, that works for sure these days :P Oct 02 17:12:05 the old installer which used the old system doesnt work anymore Oct 02 17:12:25 Stskeeps: where i can get it? Oct 02 17:12:54 http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet Oct 02 17:13:01 make sure it installs a 2.* version Oct 02 17:14:50 Stskeeps: http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/deblet-diablo.install that one i have used Oct 02 17:16:46 * lcuk2 winds up his internet Oct 02 17:16:56 melmoth: how is this supposed to be working? you just always pass a null pointer.... Oct 02 17:17:20 * qwerty12 throws lcuk2 a router, I've got 3 now :P Oct 02 17:17:33 * jott tightens lcuk2 sails Oct 02 17:17:35 excellent Oct 02 17:18:30 my sails are tight, and i felt a wind blowing today :) Oct 02 17:18:39 no, not because of curry Oct 02 17:20:33 the wind of change? :) Oct 02 17:21:03 :) Oct 02 17:23:11 how do you A) minimize the keyboard in osso-xterm B) how do you get the giant keyboard in xterm? Oct 02 17:23:51 Sargun_Screen, there's a button on the keyboard to make it go away Oct 02 17:23:54 button right corner Oct 02 17:24:15 to get the giant keyboard, give a short, sharp jab with the flat of your thumb Oct 02 17:24:52 Or if non Diablo & on a N800, the button in the middle of the arrows Oct 02 17:24:58 s/arrows/dpad Oct 02 17:25:00 you want me to jab my tablet? Oct 02 17:25:14 well, just press quickly with the flat of your thumb Oct 02 17:25:17 where do I jab it? Oct 02 17:25:25 thux: and make sure to use nit-env-lxde, that one i know works Oct 02 17:26:50 'm dabbing my screen Oct 02 17:26:56 no keyboard Oct 02 17:26:57 Stskeeps: ok i tried your env Oct 02 17:27:21 Sargun_Screen, you're doin' it wrong :) Oct 02 17:27:38 Sargun_Screen, you're on the latest release, right? Oct 02 17:27:48 diablo Oct 02 17:28:06 yes, I've made it show up a number of times by accident Oct 02 17:28:33 Sargun_Screen, basically a hard, short press with the flat of your thumb makes it show up Oct 02 17:28:49 parts of the screen can be less senstive than others so sometimes its difficult Oct 02 17:29:02 * lcuk2 has a tablet with no finger sensitivity at all Oct 02 17:29:07 it works with stylus though Oct 02 17:29:23 lcuk2, you just have to be a little rough with it :P Oct 02 17:29:39 where do I jab it johnx_? Oct 02 17:29:50 I see my screen Oct 02 17:29:53 no johnx_ its dead in the whole central area - ive overstimulated it Oct 02 17:30:19 sargun, dont overjab but press firmly and normally on the actual text entry box Oct 02 17:30:21 Sargun_Screen, I don't know. it's different for each screen Oct 02 17:30:39 you mean in the terminal area'? Oct 02 17:30:44 yes Oct 02 17:31:00 it just highlights text then Oct 02 17:31:42 press a little harder and a little faster Oct 02 17:32:17 thux: and if you use clone-to-SD please read the http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23051 thread Oct 02 17:32:25 no matter how fast I hnit, it highlights Oct 02 17:32:29 :-( Oct 02 17:32:42 Sargun_Screen, did you mess with the settings in control panel? Oct 02 17:32:53 johnx_: no Oct 02 17:33:11 As I said, I accidentally did it 5 minutes ago Oct 02 17:33:29 keep trying different areas of the screen Oct 02 17:33:36 it takes a while to figure out what works Oct 02 17:34:44 also, how do I do handwriting? Oct 02 17:36:19 with the maemo-control pkg and usb networking.. how does that work? usb to ethernet adapter? Oct 02 17:37:18 usb networking usually means "emulating a network connection over a usb connection" Oct 02 17:37:49 gotcha Oct 02 17:37:49 so instead of it showing up to your desktop as a card reader, it shows up as another computer on the network Oct 02 17:38:34 * qwerty12 is a fan of g_serial now. much less hassle. Though not as powerful as g_ether for sure Oct 02 17:38:48 jott: ping Oct 02 17:38:56 hey rm_you :P Oct 02 17:39:00 hey johnx_ :) Oct 02 17:39:05 rm_you: pong! :) Oct 02 17:39:08 jott: :) Oct 02 17:39:25 jott: so do you think you'll be able to ship those posters? Oct 02 17:39:45 this is why I hate UIs Oct 02 17:40:02 I guess I would need to give you an address or something... Oct 02 17:40:09 rm_you: aah. sure. forgot about those. Oct 02 17:40:13 i did too Oct 02 17:40:16 lol Oct 02 17:40:27 been busy / away Oct 02 17:40:34 rm_you: please just write me a mail with postal address etc. Oct 02 17:40:47 k, will do :) Oct 02 17:41:20 bah, I had the kbd for a while Oct 02 17:41:43 gotta run tho, will do that in a bit Oct 02 17:41:54 * rm_you hits EOF Oct 02 17:42:00 'later rm_you Oct 02 17:43:51 bah Oct 02 17:44:38 also, I've found that in my case my touchscreen gets less sensitive when the device is warm Oct 02 17:45:56 johnx_: There(/that) must be a reason why there is a temp sensor in the touch screen. Oct 02 17:46:01 X-Fade: ping Oct 02 17:46:43 X-Fade, it doesn't seem to be calibrated perfectly. in fact I think this is an ongoing battle to figure out one set of calibrations that will work across everyone's tablet Oct 02 17:47:15 rm_you: pong Oct 02 17:47:43 oh my Oct 02 17:48:01 slonopotamus, hi :) Oct 02 17:48:18 launched xchat on tablet. looks working. Oct 02 17:48:19 X-Fade: anyway, just let me know Oct 02 17:48:32 X-Fade: err, you are getting my notices, yes? :P Oct 02 17:48:34 hi Oct 02 17:48:37 slonopotamus, it appears so Oct 02 17:48:58 rm_you: Packetloss 100% Oct 02 17:49:16 woops Oct 02 17:49:18 X-Fade: look on other tabs, they might show up random places Oct 02 17:49:23 rm_you: Ah, yeah found them ;) Oct 02 17:49:31 accidentally closed channel tab Oct 02 17:49:50 thux: nit-env-stskeeps -will fail- to install Oct 02 17:49:52 johnx_, the resistance changes with temp Oct 02 17:49:53 thought that button will close tabs list Oct 02 17:49:56 didnt get it removed from the alpha yet Oct 02 17:49:58 rm_you: Nah, thanks for asking. But that isn't needed. I'm sure I will get some one day ;) Oct 02 17:50:06 rm_you: *offering Oct 02 17:50:18 woooow! it minimises to tray Oct 02 17:50:24 Stskeeps: ok thats i tried Oct 02 17:50:40 lcuk2, for your situation running the poor thing at 100% utilization probably isn't helping sensitivity :P Oct 02 17:50:55 tried in 1gb cards and 2gb card Oct 02 17:51:22 johnx_, :) whats the point in a touchscreen if you cant use it. and another thing - it sits inside a wooden crate all day long so has no backside cooling Oct 02 17:51:32 i once left it charging with a book ontop Oct 02 17:51:45 lcuk2: still need pics of your wooden thing :P Oct 02 17:52:21 http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7308/810crateinkx8.jpg Oct 02 17:52:43 old one actually, its been upgraded since with high tech elasticband Oct 02 17:52:48 i think you should go into full production with it Oct 02 17:52:50 and space for power Oct 02 17:52:53 X-Fade: heh, srsly, it's just going to sit here, and i'll pay for the shipping :) you've helped me out enough that it's the least I can do Oct 02 17:53:37 rm_you: You'd better spread the word on your side of the pond :) Oct 02 17:53:38 MangoFusion, my dads garage wouldnt cope and his patience with my craptastic skills would mean id be buried in the garden Oct 02 17:54:02 rm_you: I'm pretty sure I will be at more Maemo events. ;) Oct 02 17:54:24 how would you compare pidgin to builtin client as jabber messenger? Oct 02 17:54:43 rm_you, I've got more plans for you. :P Oct 02 17:54:47 I may not be though, depending on where they are :P Oct 02 17:54:49 lol ok GA Oct 02 17:54:56 Does anybody have an idea what blogger did to their feeds? It seems or planet doesn't pick those up anymore. Oct 02 17:54:56 I'll look forward to that :P Oct 02 17:56:45 gotta run deposit rent checks, then go to class Oct 02 17:56:47 TTYL Oct 02 17:57:41 bgahdhdejd Oct 02 17:57:44 stupid ui Oct 02 17:58:16 Sargun_Screen, it's just a crappy, miscalibrated touchscreen. you can set it to always pop up the big keyboard if you want Oct 02 17:58:50 Sargun, that was your password? :) Oct 02 17:59:09 no Oct 02 17:59:16 I recalibrated Oct 02 17:59:21 slonopotamus: oh noes Oct 02 17:59:31 ;) Oct 02 17:59:47 mgedmin: Ping ;) Oct 02 18:00:02 pong Oct 02 18:00:47 mgedmin: I see you have a repository listed in: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories Oct 02 18:00:58 * mgedmin nods Oct 02 18:01:06 mgedmin: Can I convince you to move that stuff into extras and close it ;) Oct 02 18:01:11 what reminds me - I need to update Oct 02 18:01:20 *g* Oct 02 18:01:24 good luck Oct 02 18:01:47 X-Fade: there's no need for convincing; that stuff should be moved into extras Oct 02 18:02:12 X-Fade, you are extremely polite :) Oct 02 18:02:14 mgedmin: Somehow that is the answer I get a lot: http://communitizer.blogspot.com/2008/10/reducing-number-of-external.html Oct 02 18:02:19 okay, there's a need to convince me to do this now rather than "whenever I find a spare minute" Oct 02 18:02:52 mgedmin: Public humiliation at the end of this month? :) Oct 02 18:03:06 :) Oct 02 18:03:09 note that there are source packages for all of those Oct 02 18:03:13 I guess GeneralAntilles can provide the ammo for that ;) Oct 02 18:03:19 can I mass-upload them with a simple shell command line? Oct 02 18:03:22 dput *.dsc or something? Oct 02 18:03:29 * mgedmin guesses not Oct 02 18:03:31 mgedmin: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/external-rebuild/gronmayer-rebuild.php :) Oct 02 18:03:54 mgedmin: As you see, most of them build on the autobuilder just fine. Oct 02 18:04:16 actually, some of them shouldn't be in extras Oct 02 18:04:30 jaffa (I believe) produced a better vim package Oct 02 18:04:32 There will be blood. Oct 02 18:04:47 and fbreader in my repo is an old fork-let Oct 02 18:04:58 mgedmin: fbreader is now in extras. Oct 02 18:05:03 right Oct 02 18:05:10 mgedmin: And the fbreader team is closing their repo too. Oct 02 18:05:20 guys, if you had 4 hours to present a simple Python-Maemo example/tutorial Oct 02 18:05:26 what would you show? Oct 02 18:05:32 ie: application ideas? Oct 02 18:05:32 some of my packages are really from maemo SDK repository, with the Section changed to user/something Oct 02 18:05:38 I'm not comfortable just uploading them to extras Oct 02 18:05:46 k-s, wow them with EFL? Oct 02 18:07:01 GeneralAntilles: no, gtk/hildon or pygame Oct 02 18:07:12 (not that I wouldn't like to show, but it's out of scope) Oct 02 18:07:38 Latest sb2 update has broken it =( Oct 02 18:08:00 * RST38h makes a mental note to never ever let it update the sb2 Oct 02 18:08:13 k-s i wrote a remote control program in python :) it shows a very simple gui with big buttons and talks to a preconfigured daemon Oct 02 18:08:38 lcuk2: interesting idea Oct 02 18:08:45 its also quick and simple Oct 02 18:08:46 mgedmin: Yeah, what to do with those. Oct 02 18:09:09 mgedmin: Put them in extras-devel only? Oct 02 18:10:01 What are the packages? Oct 02 18:10:02 mgedmin: or just remove the user/ . Somebody needing xev would know how to use apt-get ;) Oct 02 18:10:41 write a program that writes a program that writes a program that... Oct 02 18:10:47 :) Oct 02 18:11:00 Hmm. I need to check whether it would be feasible to just change ~user to somewhere on /media/mmc Oct 02 18:11:47 X-Fade: you need root to use apt-get Oct 02 18:12:01 mgedmin: rootsh! :) Oct 02 18:12:09 Anyone tried something like t hat? Oct 02 18:12:10 ah, okay, but still Oct 02 18:12:32 Everybody and their brother has root access already Oct 02 18:12:32 just realised that it probably won't survive an update, if /etc/passwd gets overwritten. Oct 02 18:12:35 Not an issue. Oct 02 18:12:35 root is easier these days, but I maintain it shouldn't be necessary for someone who just wants to use a couple of tools Oct 02 18:12:35 mgedmin: Think of regular users ;) Oct 02 18:12:47 I'm thinking about medium-power users Oct 02 18:12:49 X-Fade: are you going to include packages which are only in old extras (chinook, bora) but not in diablo to your campaign? Oct 02 18:13:08 Anybody know what the Nokia 5800 is using? Oct 02 18:13:25 mgedmin, everybody and their brother has root. Oct 02 18:13:29 rootsh is in Extras. Oct 02 18:13:52 mikkov_: I'm targetting external repositories for chinook and diablo. Oct 02 18:13:56 yacoob, the user logs in before mmc is mounted... Oct 02 18:14:40 mikkov_: Please feel free to add repositories to the list that have stuff missing from Extras. Oct 02 18:15:28 X-Fade: I just know many packages which have never made from chinook or bora to diablo Oct 02 18:15:57 well bora->chinook was an API break Oct 02 18:16:11 not for all apis Oct 02 18:16:15 mikkov_: GeneralAntilles can you point mikkov_ to the Missing packages in the wiki? Maybe we can revice that? Oct 02 18:16:18 like sdl Oct 02 18:16:27 I have to step out for now. Oct 02 18:16:36 https://wiki.maemo.org/Missing_packages_from_Diablo_Extras Oct 02 18:18:01 ~curse sb2 developers for pushing unstable updates onto users Oct 02 18:18:02 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, sb2 developers for pushing unstable updates onto users ! Oct 02 18:18:36 GAN: 5800 uses S60e5 on top of Symbian 9.5 and a resistive touch screen Oct 02 18:18:50 GAN: Are you looking for something else on it? Oct 02 18:19:32 CPU Oct 02 18:19:52 my spider sense says omap2 Oct 02 18:19:53 I'm assuming OMAP2430 clocked at something or other. Oct 02 18:20:10 OMAP2 most likely Oct 02 18:20:14 too early to see an omap3 from nokia Oct 02 18:20:16 but let us check Oct 02 18:20:50 Mostly interested on the clock of the OMAP2 Oct 02 18:21:09 OMAP3 doesn't have production silicon yet (except for that crazy Archos) sooo. . . . Oct 02 18:21:40 400MHz no higher Oct 02 18:21:53 that is the top speed for omap2 Oct 02 18:22:37 johnx_, that's not good then :o Oct 02 18:22:46 I'll end up with lotsa symlinksa. Oct 02 18:23:11 no info on the cpu yet Oct 02 18:25:00 I wonder if an Android phone will come with tethering anytime soon. Oct 02 18:26:14 I think phone companies are trying to get away from tethering Oct 02 18:26:35 yeah just sell an extra usb 3g stick with extra contract. Oct 02 18:26:47 GeneralAntilles: what about pandora? Oct 02 18:26:54 phone companies are evil Oct 02 18:27:31 Sargun_Screen, does that sound like a cellphone to you? Oct 02 18:28:31 johnx_: easier to sell unlimited data if you don't allow tethering Oct 02 18:28:37 for the seller part Oct 02 18:28:41 glass_, bingo :) Oct 02 18:28:56 It probably wont matter by the time the N900 comes out. Oct 02 18:29:15 meanwhile, a usb HSPA modem might be in my future Oct 02 18:29:21 aren't the first nova phones omap3 Oct 02 18:29:45 As I'll probably have upgraded my phone and it probably wont be able to tether so I'll probably just have to deal with the extra money for a data plan for the tablet. Oct 02 18:29:52 when is nova coming out anyways? Oct 02 18:30:43 GeneralAntilles: Do you know anything about NOVA? Oct 02 18:30:43 GeneralAntilles, unofficial tethering on android should be straightforward Oct 02 18:30:57 johnx_, "should be". ;) Oct 02 18:31:04 google won't give me a straight answer on nova... Oct 02 18:31:50 nova? isn't nova palm? Oct 02 18:31:50 nova = some palm nokia collabortation on a linux based os Oct 02 18:32:04 what Oct 02 18:32:09 and a few other companies Oct 02 18:32:16 info? Oct 02 18:32:18 htc, and stuff Oct 02 18:32:26 Yeah, really, what? Oct 02 18:32:37 too many companies to be real, so ... info please? url? Oct 02 18:32:40 is this related to access? Oct 02 18:32:41 I've never heard anything about anyone else working on it Oct 02 18:32:47 access is old Oct 02 18:32:55 johnx_: thats a different os alltogether Oct 02 18:33:00 than what palm is supposedly working on now Oct 02 18:33:09 glass_: supposedly that's nova Oct 02 18:33:10 but wtf have nokia and htc to do with palm Oct 02 18:33:12 it never even saw the light of day... Oct 02 18:33:17 but I hadn't heard anything about nokia and htc Oct 02 18:33:34 sounds pretty vaporish anyways Oct 02 18:33:35 HTC basically does everything for palm... you know that right? Oct 02 18:33:39 johnx_: access was supposed to be a linux layer undeath palm os, but was scrapped Oct 02 18:33:40 like anything palm Oct 02 18:33:50 Sargun_Screen: proof? Oct 02 18:33:53 glass_: I heard about it a year or so ago Oct 02 18:34:04 Sargun_Screen: where? Oct 02 18:34:25 i'm just not seeing this htc-palm-nokia connection as real? Oct 02 18:34:36 I cannot remember Oct 02 18:34:39 well, htc will do whatever you ask Oct 02 18:34:40 htc-palm sure(winmos and palm needs a manufacturer) Oct 02 18:34:46 I'm just wondering if it fizzled Oct 02 18:34:48 but I'm not seeing palm+nokia Oct 02 18:34:53 or it was BS Oct 02 18:35:03 johnx_: yeah, so thats not that strange. but palm+nokia is strange and htc+nokia even stranger Oct 02 18:35:08 palm and nokia have collaborated before Oct 02 18:35:13 when Oct 02 18:35:17 and on what? Oct 02 18:35:27 I mean palm ported their emulator to symban Oct 02 18:35:31 symbian Oct 02 18:35:32 what emu Oct 02 18:35:42 garnet Oct 02 18:35:45 "hey htc, make a phone that runs linux ... and java ... and make it shaped like a banana!" Oct 02 18:35:46 ? Oct 02 18:35:51 mgedmin: is it ported to symbian? Oct 02 18:35:56 i thought just for maemo Oct 02 18:35:58 johnx: We already had a banana Oct 02 18:35:59 or was that access Oct 02 18:36:03 that's why the question mark Oct 02 18:36:05 I don't know Oct 02 18:36:09 johnx: that was the original Moto Z8 selling point Oct 02 18:36:11 Sargun_Screen: it's not port to symbian Oct 02 18:36:52 and it's a different company than palmo Oct 02 18:38:37 * johnx_ always gets confused with which "palm" is doing which linux-based OS... Oct 02 18:39:14 johnx_: they're on and the same, afaik Oct 02 18:39:19 johnx_: palm doesn't know themselfs every 6 month Oct 02 18:39:35 that foleo linux got scrapped Oct 02 18:40:03 foleo.. and now we have 300$ laptops that do the same and more Oct 02 18:40:20 summatusmentis, well, there's palm and palmsource, right? Oct 02 18:40:36 johnx_: and the old os that was sold off Oct 02 18:40:47 it's so complicated, yet nothing of interest has happened in palm land in years Oct 02 18:41:02 so palm is doing "Palm OS 2" now and palmsource is pushing access, right? Oct 02 18:41:24 johnx_: I think palmsource was bought by palm Oct 02 18:41:33 palm bought back the palmsource Oct 02 18:41:39 O_o Oct 02 18:41:41 afaik, palm spun off palmsource, and then bought them again Oct 02 18:41:50 it is now desperately trying to release something ANYTHING that people will buy Oct 02 18:41:55 that's got to be a huge face-palm Oct 02 18:42:05 haha, I see what you did there Oct 02 18:42:06 RST38h, well they're buying the centro for now Oct 02 18:42:15 the centro is a nice phone Oct 02 18:42:18 summatusmentis, didn't mean to actually... Oct 02 18:42:20 johnx: that is 10-year-old tech Oct 02 18:42:22 the battery sucks, but it's a nice phone Oct 02 18:42:32 RST38h, and the wheel is older...people still buy them Oct 02 18:42:53 johnx: for the year 2008 they have got some weird unseen by anybody Linux-based PalmOS2 Oct 02 18:43:06 s/2008/2009/ Oct 02 18:43:13 johnx: if they are reasonable, they will take old PalmOS UI APIs and move them to Linux Oct 02 18:43:32 the old PalmOS is a clusterfuck right now, afaik Oct 02 18:43:41 hence why they want palmsource/access Oct 02 18:43:55 johnx: But, given that they have not released it in 5 (?) years and their propensity to suck on the old bone, they are not reasonable Oct 02 18:43:59 ever since they switched to ARM palmOS seemed like a clusterfuck Oct 02 18:44:08 summa: UI is ok. The rest has been clusterfuck from the beginning Oct 02 18:44:23 johnx: they DID NOT switch. you do not know the story? Oct 02 18:44:24 RST38h: UI is outdated and annoying, one of my biggest issues Oct 02 18:44:34 summa: People are buying centro for the ui Oct 02 18:44:44 RST38h, well, they physically switched Oct 02 18:44:52 johnx: hehe, not exactly ;) Oct 02 18:45:12 that's why I bought it, because I wanted a cheap smartphone, but I don't really like PalmOS without a launcher and some other apps to change functionality Oct 02 18:45:19 johnx: See, ARM-based PalmOS devices still run 680x0 code, but they do it with an emulator Oct 02 18:45:24 RST38h, I thought they just ran old software under emulation. is there a physical m68k in the centro? Oct 02 18:45:33 right, hence "physically" Oct 02 18:45:36 I know all this Oct 02 18:45:43 johnx: The only way to run native ARM code is through an obscure system call that lets you have a native dll with a single entry point Oct 02 18:45:56 no, there is no physical m68k Oct 02 18:46:11 but as an app developer, you can't easily access ARM either Oct 02 18:46:33 you still have to develop for 68k, with a limit of 64000 bytes per code segment Oct 02 18:46:39 ahaha Oct 02 18:46:41 without a file system Oct 02 18:46:43 awesome Oct 02 18:46:48 knew that Oct 02 18:46:51 johnx: I tried porting my stuff to it Oct 02 18:46:59 johnx: It felt like ass-fucking a pidgeon Oct 02 18:47:19 so, arousing and enjoyable? Oct 02 18:47:22 >_> Oct 02 18:50:00 <_< Oct 02 18:50:44 it's amazing how long palm *hasn't done anything* and is still selling millions of phones Oct 02 18:51:21 * Mousey still <3s palmos, hasn't found a better phone than his treo 750 Oct 02 18:52:04 there are a _lot_ of people who still really like palmos Oct 02 18:52:23 * johnx_ remembers when palm bought handspring Oct 02 18:52:34 palmos is nice and simple Oct 02 18:52:41 johnx_: I do too, vaguely Oct 02 18:52:43 but it is also 3 years old now Oct 02 18:52:54 hrw: nice and simple, but you can't do anything with it Oct 02 18:53:00 definitely. it's a nice UI, it's fast as hell and the apps are well integrated Oct 02 18:53:13 summatusmentis: depends what your needs are Oct 02 18:53:27 I liked palmos 4.1 on my hires sony clie Oct 02 18:53:36 but it was limiting me and my use of device Oct 02 18:53:39 hrw: I suppose, I just want more granularity with settings/etc. Oct 02 18:53:54 yeah, it is limiting Oct 02 18:53:57 for me, the deal breaker is web browsing Oct 02 18:54:14 summa: queer and unsatisfying Oct 02 18:54:32 johnx_: that's one of my biggest issues Oct 02 18:54:36 RST38h: meaning what? Oct 02 18:54:45 summatusmentis, about the pigeon Oct 02 18:54:48 johnx: PalmOS UI has actually been *designed* by UI people who had target groups and counted clicks for each basic task Oct 02 18:54:48 oh, right, pigeon Oct 02 18:54:54 johnx: no wonder it still sells Oct 02 18:57:08 where i should specify DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS? Oct 02 18:57:44 i need to disable parallel building for a package Oct 02 18:58:57 anybody? Oct 02 18:59:14 dont you just export it in a shell before building? Oct 02 18:59:24 on auutobuilder? Oct 02 18:59:29 ah Oct 02 18:59:32 well that's different Oct 02 19:00:38 Ы Oct 02 19:01:24 that's the problem. I don't understand where to put it Oct 02 19:01:43 export at the beginning of debian/rules? Oct 02 19:01:56 yes Oct 02 19:02:14 I would just look at debian packages Oct 02 19:02:45 maemo policy says nothing about it :( Oct 02 19:03:28 slonopotamus: DEB_BULD_OPTIONS are specified by the builder Oct 02 19:03:41 you have to "parse" them in your rules file.. Oct 02 19:04:09 (like enable vfp support if DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS contains "vfp") Oct 02 19:04:47 jott, did you manage to see if theres any difference in performance mode? Oct 02 19:05:05 do dh_* scripts do that by default? Oct 02 19:05:58 X-Fade: is the builder machine up? Oct 02 19:06:37 hi Oct 02 19:06:41 oops, wrong channel Oct 02 19:07:05 hi Mousey Oct 02 19:07:07 :P Oct 02 19:07:18 lcuk2: not very big ones. Oct 02 19:07:29 but i did not run extensive benchmarks Oct 02 19:07:34 ok, was worth it just for completeness Oct 02 19:07:41 =) Oct 02 19:07:52 woo just started qt extended on n810 :) Oct 02 19:07:58 i thought it would already be kicking up, but you never know with these things Oct 02 19:08:10 qt extended? have you got enough space for standard :P Oct 02 19:08:34 yer still plenty of space free :) Oct 02 19:08:46 qt extended is former qtopia platform/phone edition Oct 02 19:09:21 Error loading /tmp/sb2-fms-20081002-230430.J14685/lua_scripts/main.lua Oct 02 19:09:21 Error loading /tmp/sb2-fms-20081002-230426.R14598/lua_scripts/main.lua Oct 02 19:09:29 Any ideas what the problem is? Oct 02 19:09:39 X-Fade: it is Oct 02 19:09:51 a bit slow but it's running Oct 02 19:13:13 do we have libdb4.2-dev for diablo-included libdb4.2? Oct 02 19:13:57 and if no, do we have sources for diablo libdb4.2 so we could buld one? Oct 02 19:16:38 and if no again, i'll be angry at nokia Oct 02 19:17:06 ugh, sometimes i wish app manager could show more info without having to bump the whole thing into red pill... Oct 02 19:17:11 same question about libxml-dev Oct 02 19:18:29 hmm, battery-status no longer give a output in terminal, it only triggers the battery icon in the statusbar... Oct 02 19:22:52 :( Oct 02 19:23:47 * johnx_ reads a review of the original treo 180 Oct 02 19:25:02 nobody likes hard-to-answer questions, uh? :) Oct 02 19:26:10 try: apt-cache policy libdb4.2 Oct 02 19:26:20 are you just missing the -dev package? Oct 02 19:27:02 johnx_: is that the one with the flip cover? Oct 02 19:27:10 slonopotamus, anyways, it's here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1/free/d/db4.2/ Oct 02 19:27:23 summatusmentis, yup. with b/w screen and 1 hour of talk time Oct 02 19:27:39 hello :) Oct 02 19:27:45 i need -dev package, yes Oct 02 19:28:10 Hey, I'm trying to do some stuff that needs root privilegs from a program. Because I don't want the whole program to run as root I thought about doing these things requiring root privilegs from some scripts. So is there a way to run these Scripts with an graphical authentification like kdesu or gksu und maemo? Or how would you try to do something like that Oct 02 19:28:30 It seems I'll undertake a project related to maemo in the course of studies :> Oct 02 19:29:00 either better handwriting recognizer, or map vectorizer (guess) Oct 02 19:30:34 toti_, maybe have your program depend on rootsh? or have one program with root privileges and one without? Oct 02 19:31:26 slonopotamus, so did you find it? Oct 02 19:31:37 nope Oct 02 19:31:46 slonopotamus, anyways, it's here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1/free/d/db4.2/ Oct 02 19:31:51 :) Oct 02 19:31:51 to do the first properly, I'll need some nice docs about hildon-input-method Oct 02 19:31:54 i see. Oct 02 19:32:42 (of course, I can always borrow code from dasher) Oct 02 19:33:19 I'll have a look at rootsh seems like sudo this would might work but I don't really know how to let the program type the password ?! Oct 02 19:33:39 toti_, it's like sudo with no password Oct 02 19:34:05 AStorm, there's an example hildon-input-method plugin from nokia as well Oct 02 19:34:08 oh fsck, mapper's rotation code is so naive :) Oct 02 19:34:21 johnx_: url or search query? :> Oct 02 19:35:01 is there a port of wwwoffle for maemo? Oct 02 19:35:13 without? And if I changed my password before? Oct 02 19:35:41 Komzpa: I don't think so, but shouldn't be hard Oct 02 19:35:59 I suggest you use polipo instead (and its offline mode toggle) Oct 02 19:36:18 toti_, one of the parts of rootsh will just get your a root shell no matter what the passwords are Oct 02 19:37:17 wwwoffle has an ancient and buggy network transport Oct 02 19:37:25 e.g. HTTP 1.0 only Oct 02 19:37:29 lol, semms good on one hand and a bit dangerous on the other Oct 02 19:37:34 AStorm, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1/free/h/hildon-input-method-plugins-example/ :P Oct 02 19:37:47 so it's in the repo? thanks Oct 02 19:38:28 toti_, suppose so. splitting your program and having one half setuid root might be safer Oct 02 19:38:52 mapper's rotation code is naive... Oct 02 19:39:02 AStorm: thanks :) Oct 02 19:39:05 this needs fixing Oct 02 19:40:51 half a year with tablet and first today i discover you can copy-paste by dragging .. Oct 02 19:41:41 I also thought about that but it's a java programm running on jalimo and I think it won't work if I only give the .class files by setuid Oct 02 19:41:42 Stskeeps, though sadly, not between apps :/ Oct 02 19:44:53 toti_, really? Oct 02 19:45:22 toti_, oh my. you're not kidding Oct 02 19:46:01 I think it only works if jalimo has root privilegs Oct 02 19:46:25 woops, i meant Stskeeps Oct 02 19:46:51 slonopotamus: yeah, :P Oct 02 19:46:56 lol, maybe I should give it a second try then xD Oct 02 19:47:03 now i know kung-fu! Oct 02 19:47:08 :D Oct 02 19:47:29 * slonopotamus is building dependency og dependency of svn... Oct 02 19:47:36 *of Oct 02 19:57:23 when uninstalling a package, is there a way to remove all the installed required packages taht are no longer needed Oct 02 19:58:56 cyrus, rm -rf / seemed to work well last time, it removed everything not in use Oct 02 19:59:08 (and for some reason a few things that were..) Oct 02 19:59:27 thanks....haha Oct 02 19:59:50 :D you are welcome Oct 02 20:00:08 cyrus__, apt-get autoremove Oct 02 20:00:21 I don't remember if the tablet's apt-get has that Oct 02 20:00:28 and *be careful* with it Oct 02 20:00:28 also, if I try to organize the panels, I can't ever change anything. If I try to remove for instance the Gizmo icon, the delete button is greyed out Oct 02 20:00:41 don't think it has Oct 02 20:01:05 cyrus__, known issue. I made a new menu folder called "useless" and moved most stuff there Oct 02 20:01:26 and with that, I'm off to bed Oct 02 20:01:31 'night all Oct 02 20:02:03 correction, it does have it Oct 02 20:02:09 johnx_, you can remove the .desktops. . . . Oct 02 20:02:11 wonder when they added it Oct 02 20:02:56 cyrus__, /usr/share/applications/hildon Oct 02 20:03:05 rhapsody.desktop gizmo.desktop skype.desktop etc Oct 02 20:12:50 given a file in linux file system (let us say in /bin) how do I find what package may have installed it? Oct 02 20:13:14 RST38h, what distro? Oct 02 20:13:31 ubuntu Oct 02 20:13:38 dpkg -S /path/file Oct 02 20:17:47 ah Oct 02 20:17:49 perfect, thanks Oct 02 20:17:54 sure :) Oct 02 20:17:57 * johnx_ really sleeps Oct 02 20:18:01 now I only need to find an sb2 developer and strangle him Oct 02 20:18:29 because it looks like they have just pushed an update that makes sb2 fail when called from inside sb2 Oct 02 20:30:57 Hey, is there a special way required to set SUID Bits on Maemo? I tried chmod u+s to run a simple c program which calls system("whoami"); and it prints user if I start it as a normal user Oct 02 20:33:15 is user owner of the program? Oct 02 20:33:53 wait..... I thing the right answer is Upps Oct 02 20:38:04 Followup from the story a few days ago, on the man who was tasered and fell to his death. The lieutenant who ordered the tazing was found dead of an "apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound." Oct 02 20:38:06 1:1 Oct 02 20:41:57 if I user chmod a+s [file] every user should be able to run the program as owner? Oct 02 20:43:03 hi all! Oct 02 20:44:37 toti: no Oct 02 20:45:27 ok, if I use chmod +s Oct 02 20:45:41 +s has nothing to do with execution rights by users Oct 02 20:46:09 ok, but it let the programm run as owner down't it? Oct 02 20:46:23 yes Oct 02 20:46:33 setuid+setgid+sticky Oct 02 20:47:18 but it doesn't work in my case. Owner of the programm is root but if set the sticky bit the programm still runs s user Oct 02 20:47:47 hi gnuton Oct 02 20:47:58 do ls -l program Oct 02 20:48:04 show what it says Oct 02 20:48:13 -rwsr-sr-x 1 root root Oct 02 20:48:27 ok Oct 02 20:48:36 Hi woglinde :) Oct 02 20:48:46 looks ok but your os may prevent setuid/setgid programs from executing Oct 02 20:49:21 But I am able to execute it it only doesn't execute as root Oct 02 20:51:08 well, the system lets it execute but does not set ids unless this executable is in a special list Oct 02 20:51:17 at least this is what I think happens Oct 02 20:52:32 But this isn't usual isn't it? Oct 02 20:54:54 no it is fairly usual: http://www.linux.org/docs/ldp/howto/Secure-Programs-HOWTO/avoid-setuid.html Oct 02 20:56:34 But this is about scripts, I'm running a c programm Oct 02 21:40:45 installed gainroot and add the following to my sudoers files: cyrus ALL = PASSWD: /usr/sbin/gainroot Oct 02 21:41:03 cyrus is a local user I made, however when I type sudoers gainroot it asks for the root passwd, which I supply correctly, but it says invalid Oct 02 21:43:05 it doesn't ask for the root pwd Oct 02 21:43:09 it asks for the cyrus pwd Oct 02 21:43:23 because you put the 'PASSWD:' in your /etc/sudoers Oct 02 21:46:59 mgedmin - oh...i am stupid...is there a way to have it ask for the root passwd? Oct 02 21:47:35 no Oct 02 21:47:47 that's the point of sudo: it never asks for the root pw Oct 02 21:47:58 sounds like you want su Oct 02 21:48:04 mgedmin - ok. What if I want to implement something similiar to logging on and doing su - Oct 02 21:48:06 exactly Oct 02 21:48:08 but if I run su - Oct 02 21:48:14 ti says something about applet requires root privileges Oct 02 21:48:43 ah, right Oct 02 21:48:47 because it's the busybox su Oct 02 21:48:53 and busybox is not suid-root on maemo Oct 02 21:49:39 mgedmin - k. is there a package out there that supplies su Oct 02 21:49:53 no idea Oct 02 21:49:58 why do you need it? Oct 02 21:51:06 well I am just trying to setup some additional security. I have SSH enabled with norootlogins Oct 02 21:51:20 however, if someone figures out my regular user password Oct 02 21:51:27 they basically have root, since they just run sudo gainroot Oct 02 21:51:33 and don't have to supply the root passwd Oct 02 21:53:22 yes Oct 02 22:16:34 hello.. Oct 02 22:16:58 I see latest firmware is out, but cannot find it at regular download site, any other place? the online update did not work for me... Oct 02 22:18:13 I like the way the windows updater says: remove the power cable, now wait 30 mins for the update to download Oct 02 22:18:44 mavhc: unless you tell it to get it from somewhere in the harddisk Oct 02 22:19:27 but at least switch those 2 things around Oct 02 22:24:44 so, any ideas where I can get latest firmware for manual flash? Oct 02 22:29:59 mmm.. there used to be a site...http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php Oct 02 22:30:11 you'll just need your WiFi card MAC Oct 02 22:30:31 (available underneath the battery, for example) Oct 02 22:32:48 is there a reason serial numbers are often under the battery? Oct 02 22:33:10 control panel -> device -> about Oct 02 22:33:21 gomiam: yep, i went there, the update is not there.. Oct 02 22:33:24 no need for battery pulling Oct 02 22:33:44 and i tried installing directly using app manager, now have the update with exclamation mark Oct 02 22:33:50 mgedmin: oh XD I forgot. I usually just /sbin/ifconfig -a wlan0 XD Oct 02 22:46:02 ok, anyone got the flash image for 4.2008.36-5 on them? Oct 02 22:50:27 not me Oct 02 22:58:56 this is weird, now the wiki for how to flash using linux is gone.. Oct 02 23:07:22 merged somewhere probably Oct 02 23:08:08 any expert on postgresql around? Oct 03 02:10:42 what's the best size for canola cover files? could anyone check theirs and tell me? Oct 03 02:47:48 Crap Oct 03 02:47:57 Wiki's in ro Oct 03 02:56:33 night **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 03 02:59:57 2008