**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 23 02:59:57 2008
Oct 23 03:03:34 <disco_stu> hi everyone
Oct 23 03:04:14 <disco_stu> johnx: when i suggested midori you told me to try tear
Oct 23 03:06:04 <disco_stu> that is the most unstable thing i've ever tried
Oct 23 03:18:21 <disco_stu> nobody ?
Oct 23 03:18:28 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: are u there ?
Oct 23 03:23:10 <disco_stu> someone ?
Oct 23 03:41:03 <disco_stu> bump
Oct 23 03:44:04 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles:
Oct 23 03:45:50 <bef0rd> Hi
Oct 23 03:46:30 <disco_stu> hi bef0rd
Oct 23 03:49:40 <bef0rd> disco_stu no para de bailar :P
Oct 23 03:50:07 <disco_stu> bef0rd: jaja .. ojala
Oct 23 03:50:43 <disco_stu> fernandinho ?
Oct 23 03:54:24 <bef0rd> fernandinho en honor a ronaldinho gaucho xD
Oct 23 03:57:14 <disco_stu> de donde sos ?
Oct 23 03:57:24 <disco_stu> yo soy fernando de Argentina
Oct 23 04:01:37 <gregorovius> eeh
Oct 23 04:01:44 <gregorovius> pensé que era el único
Oct 23 04:04:14 <disco_stu> gregorovius: de donde ?
Oct 23 04:12:05 <disco_stu> someone has experience with xkbd ?
Oct 23 04:13:27 <slonopotamus> hi
Oct 23 04:13:52 <slonopotamus> why there is browserd?
Oct 23 04:14:06 <solmumaha> disco_stu: enough to avoid it
Oct 23 04:16:25 <gregorovius> disco_stu: argentina
Oct 23 04:17:19 <disco_stu> gregorovius: Mendoza, vos ?
Oct 23 04:17:28 <gregorovius> bs as
Oct 23 04:17:43 <gregorovius> mendoza capital?
Oct 23 04:18:08 <disco_stu> gregorovius: casi
Oct 23 04:19:30 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, pong.
Oct 23 04:20:12 <GeneralAntilles> slonopotamus, it's the browser engine and window handler.
Oct 23 04:20:56 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: i wanted to ask you about xkbd, cause it goes randomly changing the case of my letters
Oct 23 04:21:11 <GeneralAntilles> Don't use it.
Oct 23 04:21:51 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: :( so you dont use links2 either
Oct 23 04:22:37 <GeneralAntilles> Nope
Oct 23 04:23:14 <disco_stu> is a good browser..
Oct 23 04:23:26 <disco_stu> i tried Tear today, but it keeps crashing
Oct 23 04:23:31 <disco_stu> the bastard..
Oct 23 04:27:01 <disco_stu> gregorovius: que usas n800 o n810 ?
Oct 23 04:27:16 <gregorovius> n800
Oct 23 04:30:13 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, it's really, really alpha.
Oct 23 04:30:21 <GeneralAntilles> He's basically building a browser front-end from scratch.
Oct 23 04:30:35 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: i see
Oct 23 04:30:51 <disco_stu> the thing that is making it so unstable is sqlite
Oct 23 04:30:59 <GeneralAntilles> It's interesting because it's A. WebKit, and B. Built from scratch specifically for the tablets.
Oct 23 04:31:05 <disco_stu> the way he uses it
Oct 23 04:33:07 <GeneralAntilles> I'm sure he'd appreciate patches and/or pointers. ;)
Oct 23 04:33:48 <disco_stu> today it was crashing the hell, until i deleted the sqlite file in .tear/ and it worked another 10 minutes
Oct 23 04:34:15 <disco_stu> i may get involved
Oct 23 04:37:38 <slonopotamus> GeneralAntilles, hi
Oct 23 04:37:47 <slonopotamus> GeneralAntilles, i know that
Oct 23 04:38:12 <slonopotamus> GeneralAntilles, the question is why it is made as a demon
Oct 23 04:38:15 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, justification for using that archicture is the question.  . .
Oct 23 04:38:16 <GeneralAntilles> right
Oct 23 04:38:39 <GeneralAntilles> A few thing
Oct 23 04:38:40 <GeneralAntilles> s
Oct 23 04:38:46 <GeneralAntilles> First, it decreases startup time
Oct 23 04:39:04 <GeneralAntilles> Second, it reduces the impact of browser crashes (ideally, only a single window will close instead of all windows)
Oct 23 04:39:29 <GeneralAntilles> and third, it will give other programs access to a browser engine without having to load a new one into memory.
Oct 23 04:40:25 <slonopotamus> fourth, it increases memory usage even when browser is not running
Oct 23 04:40:36 <GeneralAntilles> Eh, only about 7MB.
Oct 23 04:40:52 <GeneralAntilles> MB I'm willing to trade for reduced startup time
Oct 23 04:41:18 <GeneralAntilles> and when more applications start using browserd (as I know they will) it'll actually reduce memory usage.
Oct 23 04:41:21 <slonopotamus> i sometimes see it forgets to free upp memory after closing microb
Oct 23 04:41:37 <GeneralAntilles> "top" numbers or "htop" numbers?
Oct 23 04:41:44 <GeneralAntilles> The discussion has been had to death, anyway.
Oct 23 04:42:00 <slonopotamus> ok ;)
Oct 23 04:42:04 <GeneralAntilles> If there are memory leaks, then those are bugs.
Oct 23 04:42:06 <GeneralAntilles> Plain and simple.
Oct 23 04:42:11 <slonopotamus> anyway, it looks strange
Oct 23 04:42:22 <GeneralAntilles> It's the setup Chrome uses
Oct 23 04:42:24 <GeneralAntilles> and IE8
Oct 23 04:47:39 <bef0rd> disco_stu, Colombia.
Oct 23 04:49:20 <disco_stu> Shakira's land
Oct 23 04:49:42 <solmumaha> disco_stu: try xvkbd instead
Oct 23 04:49:59 <disco_stu> solmumaha: xvkbd ?
Oct 23 04:50:10 <solmumaha> it actually works
Oct 23 04:50:14 <disco_stu> didnt heard of it
Oct 23 04:50:17 <disco_stu> :)
Oct 23 04:51:54 <solmumaha> disco_stu: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18621&highlight=xvkbd
Oct 23 04:55:17 * GeneralAntilles plans evil things for the council.
Oct 23 05:00:01 <disco_stu> solmumaha: is fuckin good !
Oct 23 05:00:09 <disco_stu> i mean.. it is great !
Oct 23 05:01:06 <disco_stu> solmumaha: thakns for the advice..
Oct 23 05:01:12 <disco_stu> thanks*
Oct 23 05:02:43 <solmumaha> np
Oct 23 05:04:39 <disco_stu> i dont see how xkbd is so lame
Oct 23 05:09:05 <Macer> hm
Oct 23 05:09:35 <RST38h> good mourning, gentlemen
Oct 23 05:09:47 <Macer> is there any other browser than microb for maemo?
Oct 23 05:09:54 <Macer> something that could render zimbra correctly?
Oct 23 05:09:56 <Macer> :)
Oct 23 05:10:05 <Macer> i wish i could find a better browser for my n95
Oct 23 05:11:11 <RST38h> there is Tear and Fennec Beta
Oct 23 05:11:14 <disco_stu> s60 browser is awesome
Oct 23 05:11:24 <RST38h> S60 browser is decent enough
Oct 23 05:12:15 <RST38h> Tablet will not render Zimbra correctly any time soon, so do not get your hopes high
Oct 23 05:12:41 <Macer> damn
Oct 23 05:12:42 <Macer> heh
Oct 23 05:12:51 <Macer> disco .. it won't work with ajax
Oct 23 05:13:09 <Macer> heh... which is odd becaue the n95 is actually probably a bit stronger than my n800
Oct 23 05:13:15 <disco_stu> Macer: is a phone..
Oct 23 05:13:15 <RST38h> S60 browser supports ajax
Oct 23 05:13:19 <Macer> does it?
Oct 23 05:13:22 <RST38h> Albeit limited one, same as the tablet
Oct 23 05:13:26 <Macer> ah
Oct 23 05:13:34 <Macer> wouldn't work with zimbra's ajax interface
Oct 23 05:13:47 <RST38h> It will run JavaScript, but slowly and may run out of memory. These limitations come from the hardware not the browser
Oct 23 05:13:48 <Macer> neither one would :) although deblet did with iceweasel which is just ff
Oct 23 05:13:55 <RST38h> Use GMail instead.
Oct 23 05:14:11 <Macer> the whole point of using my own zimbra server was to wean myself off gmail
Oct 23 05:14:25 <GeneralAntilles> Well, browser improvements can reduce the impact of hardware limitations.
Oct 23 05:14:26 <Macer> it's ok. only thing i miss out on are the briefcases and docs
Oct 23 05:14:33 <RST38h> Use your own Unix server and log in using Modest or SSH
Oct 23 05:14:38 <Macer> which might be awesome
Oct 23 05:14:47 <GeneralAntilles> and there's a lot of room to improve on the really old FF3 alpha MicroB is currently based on.
Oct 23 05:14:51 <Macer> RST38h heh.. that's what i do now
Oct 23 05:14:56 <RST38h> General: With the sheer amount of JS people are using today, abandon all hope
Oct 23 05:15:06 <RST38h> At least until Moorestown arrives or something
Oct 23 05:15:10 <Macer> i'm actually moving zimbra over to a new mini shuttle itx box they had for $99
Oct 23 05:15:17 <mfinkle_> Fenec supports AJAX
Oct 23 05:15:19 <GeneralAntilles> In 2010?
Oct 23 05:15:33 * GeneralAntilles could give two shits about mobile x86.
Oct 23 05:15:37 <RST38h> General: We^H^HIntel promises one in 2009
Oct 23 05:15:53 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, and we'll have OMAP3 by then, sooooo?
Oct 23 05:15:57 <Macer> mobile x86?
Oct 23 05:16:01 <RST38h> General: Well, if it compares in characteristics with OMAP, then why not?
Oct 23 05:16:09 <Macer> GeneralAntilles whaqt are yout alking about?
Oct 23 05:16:17 <RST38h> General: Instruction set surely sucks but I will let compiler deal with thart
Oct 23 05:16:19 <Macer> i never said anytghing about using a moble x86
Oct 23 05:16:25 <GeneralAntilles> Because there's no way it'll have similar battery life.
Oct 23 05:17:02 <Macer> http://lasziv.reprehensible.net/~macer
Oct 23 05:17:11 <Macer> i was going to run zimbra on the shuttle
Oct 23 05:17:20 <GeneralAntilles> Macer, RST38h brought up Moorestown.
Oct 23 05:17:21 <RST38h> General: Actually, Moorestown is promied to have /10 power suckage of current Atoms, when idle
Oct 23 05:17:24 <Macer> oh
Oct 23 05:17:36 <RST38h> General: How they actually measure "idle" is a mystery though
Oct 23 05:17:37 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, and OMAP3 has basically zero power usage when idle. :P
Oct 23 05:17:49 <Macer> RST38h _ OFF
Oct 23 05:17:52 <Macer> heh
Oct 23 05:18:03 <GeneralAntilles> Having x86 is a lot less important when you take Microsoft out of the picture
Oct 23 05:18:05 <RST38h> General: Again, this depend on what you call idle
Oct 23 05:18:14 <GeneralAntilles> Fair enough
Oct 23 05:18:25 <RST38h> General: The problem is, once it is x86, you automatically get MS in the picture =(
Oct 23 05:18:35 <Macer> i need to check out deblete sometime soon
Oct 23 05:18:39 <Macer> but i've been working on other things
Oct 23 05:18:46 <Macer> sts and johnx have made vast improvements
Oct 23 05:18:48 <RST38h> The "Can I run Office on this?" question surfaces again and again =(
Oct 23 05:18:56 <Macer> haha
Oct 23 05:19:03 <GeneralAntilles> "Only if you pay me $500"
Oct 23 05:19:06 <Macer> can i run office heh
Oct 23 05:19:13 <RST38h> Which is really, REALLY bad for Moblin btw
Oct 23 05:19:19 <Macer> my n95 has quickoffice
Oct 23 05:19:26 <Macer> :)
Oct 23 05:19:33 <RST38h> macer: They mean the real thing
Oct 23 05:19:36 <Macer> oh
Oct 23 05:19:48 <Macer> just slap a ms symbol on it
Oct 23 05:20:03 <Macer> and say ïïit's the mobile ver made juist for you
Oct 23 05:20:11 <Macer> they will think they are special
Oct 23 05:20:14 <Macer> :)
Oct 23 05:20:19 <RST38h> That is what MS does for WinMobile "Office"
Oct 23 05:20:26 <Macer> i'm sure it is
Oct 23 05:20:32 <RST38h> The only problem is, it is no real office either
Oct 23 05:20:45 <suihkulokki> clippy missing :'(
Oct 23 05:20:46 <disco_stu> at last i can browse the web with links2 !!
Oct 23 05:20:51 <disco_stu> i'm happy :)
Oct 23 05:20:52 <Macer> are people honestly expecting a full office suite?
Oct 23 05:21:00 <RST38h> Yes.
Oct 23 05:21:02 <Macer> i was happy i could type entire term papers on my phone with quick office
Oct 23 05:21:03 <Macer> heh
Oct 23 05:21:13 <Macer> talk about damage control for those late nights out
Oct 23 05:21:28 <RST38h> Maybe not on a phone, but on a MID they expect Office
Oct 23 05:21:41 <Macer> i think i typed 20 pages in 2 hrs with my n95 and su8w
Oct 23 05:21:51 <Macer> then tell them to get a laptop
Oct 23 05:21:52 <Macer> haha
Oct 23 05:21:55 <RST38h> Cheater
Oct 23 05:21:59 <Macer> people expect too much
Oct 23 05:22:09 <RST38h> Real road warriors do not use BT keyboard
Oct 23 05:22:12 <Macer> RST38h ... only reason i actually bought quick office was for that just in casae purpose
Oct 23 05:22:14 <Macer> shit
Oct 23 05:22:17 <Macer> fuck that heh
Oct 23 05:22:26 <Macer> i'd have died trying to do it without it
Oct 23 05:22:36 <RST38h> Try typing your term papr w t9 dood
Oct 23 05:22:40 <Macer> hahaha
Oct 23 05:22:46 <Macer> that's why i got he bt kb
Oct 23 05:22:52 <Macer> i don't like lugging around a laptop
Oct 23 05:23:06 <RST38h> That is why I got E70 instead of overpriced N95 brick :)
Oct 23 05:23:10 <Macer> my su8w and n95 do about 60% of what a laptop can
Oct 23 05:23:17 <Macer> hah
Oct 23 05:23:29 <Macer> it is uncomfortable to talk on
Oct 23 05:23:31 <RST38h> All right, going to work.
Oct 23 05:23:37 <Macer> i never talk on it without an earpiece
Oct 23 05:23:40 <Macer> ok
Oct 23 05:23:41 <Macer> take care
Oct 23 05:23:46 * GeneralAntilles needs new glasses. . . .
Oct 23 05:23:48 <GeneralAntilles> Bye, RST38h.
Oct 23 05:23:49 <RST38h> Macer: it is 100% comfortable to talk on. It looks and feels like a phone.
Oct 23 05:23:56 <Macer> hah
Oct 23 05:23:57 <RST38h> You mistake E70 for E61
Oct 23 05:24:03 <Macer> yeah...
Oct 23 05:24:06 <Macer> i meant the n95
Oct 23 05:24:11 <Macer> ;)
Oct 23 05:24:19 <RST38h> The only problem with E70 is that people mistake it for a gun holster when it is in your pocket
Oct 23 05:24:25 <Macer> haha
Oct 23 05:24:34 <Macer> don't want that at school nowadays
Oct 23 05:24:47 <Macer> you'll get tackled and not even know why
Oct 23 05:24:51 <disco_stu> people.. see you tomorrow for more talking
Oct 23 05:24:54 <RST38h> not here
Oct 23 05:24:57 <disco_stu> bye
Oct 23 05:25:17 <disco_stu> i'll hit the bed
Oct 23 05:25:26 <RST38h> Given that police carries assault AK-47s in plain sight... =)
Oct 23 05:26:28 <GeneralAntilles> ak-74s
Oct 23 05:41:57 * johnx yawns
Oct 23 05:42:38 <xddeng> hello
Oct 23 05:43:50 <johnx> hi
Oct 23 05:49:09 <xddeng> I have a question,Nokia whether to provide the API to amend  N810 background
Oct 23 05:50:00 <xddeng> somebody can give me a help
Oct 23 05:50:02 <johnx> Are you looking for an API to change the background picture?
Oct 23 05:50:30 <xddeng> yes
Oct 23 05:50:45 <GeneralAntilles> http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3030
Oct 23 05:50:47 <GeneralAntilles> Vote ^
Oct 23 05:52:12 <johnx> xddeng, Thank ^link^ is a request for Nokia to provide an API to change the background
Oct 23 05:52:26 * bef0rd votes
Oct 23 05:53:28 <xddeng> i am viewing it
Oct 23 05:53:37 <xddeng> thanks
Oct 23 06:13:36 <Khertan_n810> Hi !
Oct 23 06:13:54 <Khertan_n810> Never never bought a data connection to orange !
Oct 23 06:13:57 <Khertan_n810> they suck
Oct 23 06:55:37 <Khertan_n810> hi again
Oct 23 06:56:20 <johnx> hallo
Oct 23 06:56:38 <johnx> did you really get disconnected right after complaining about Orange? or did you just quit on purpose?
Oct 23 06:59:06 <Khertan_n810> nope disconnected
Oct 23 06:59:24 <Khertan_n810> they have decided to block port 993
Oct 23 06:59:49 <Khertan_n810> and smtp other than smtp.orange.fr
Oct 23 06:59:52 <qwerty12> Heh, Orange sucks in the UK too. Shame you have Orange as your biggest provider :P
Oct 23 07:00:11 <Khertan_n810> no really choice in france
Oct 23 07:00:51 <Khertan_n810> but their smtp don t work with ssl
Oct 23 07:01:22 <johnx> move to Japan. 3G coverage is incredible except while hiking in the mountains
Oct 23 07:01:51 <Khertan_n810> yep coverage is a shame
Oct 23 07:01:59 <johnx> too bad unlimited data plans are so expensive here...
Oct 23 07:02:07 <Khertan_n810> but it s not really a problem
Oct 23 07:02:23 <Khertan_n810> the real problem is limited data plan
Oct 23 07:02:34 <Khertan_n810> nammed 'unlimited'
Oct 23 07:02:42 <Khertan_n810> with lim'ited access
Oct 23 07:02:54 <Khertan_n810> called full internet access
Oct 23 07:03:04 <Khertan_n810> s/called/nammed
Oct 23 07:03:22 <Khertan_n810> they lock many things
Oct 23 07:03:32 <Khertan_n810> example the port 25 or 993
Oct 23 07:03:38 <Khertan_n810> no ssl ... no ssh
Oct 23 07:04:03 <Khertan_n810> this suck !
Oct 23 07:04:40 <Khertan_n810> and nothing in the CGV (in english contract)
Oct 23 07:04:51 <Khertan_n810> about that
Oct 23 07:05:52 <Khertan_n810> and when they lock something the answer isn t a standart one
Oct 23 07:06:08 <Khertan_n810> example on http
Oct 23 07:06:32 <Khertan_n810> answer isn t a 403
Oct 23 07:07:14 <johnx> do they block by port or protocol?
Oct 23 07:09:00 <johnx> if it were me, I would setup an ssh tunnel or proxy on a computer with a real inet connection
Oct 23 07:10:43 <RST38h> This is difficult to do on a phone
Oct 23 07:10:55 <johnx> RST38h, but not on an n810...
Oct 23 07:11:00 <RST38h> yea
Oct 23 07:11:41 * johnx <3 ssh tunnels
Oct 23 07:13:58 <Khertan_n810> they block port
Oct 23 07:14:06 <johnx> so don't use standard ports
Oct 23 07:14:09 <Khertan_n810> and block ssh tunneling it seems
Oct 23 07:14:19 <johnx> setup an ssh server that answers on :80
Oct 23 07:14:35 <Khertan_n810> already try
Oct 23 07:14:38 <johnx> O_o
Oct 23 07:14:43 <RST38h> Bastards
Oct 23 07:14:45 <Khertan_n810> stupid proxy
Oct 23 07:14:54 <RST38h> Can you tunnel using HTTP packets? ;)
Oct 23 07:14:55 <johnx> aaah, you're already behind a proxy?
Oct 23 07:14:58 <johnx> weak sauce
Oct 23 07:15:20 <RST38h> There are two possible solutions:
Oct 23 07:15:36 <RST38h> 1. They probably have a special data plan that gives you complete Net access
Oct 23 07:15:58 <RST38h> 2. If they don't, drop the bastards and sign up with somebody else
Oct 23 07:22:09 <Khertan_n810> RST38h: which one ...
Oct 23 07:22:18 <Khertan_n810> sfr do the same thing
Oct 23 07:22:36 <Khertan_n810> bouygues don t have unlimited data plan
Oct 23 07:22:47 <Khertan_n810> and do similar things too
Oct 23 07:23:19 <Khertan_n810> killing who take this decision couldn t be an option
Oct 23 07:23:44 * Khertan_n810 is in fury mode
Oct 23 07:32:09 <aquatix> morning all
Oct 23 07:39:45 <Khertan_n810> sfr ... 5Euro / month ... for 5Mo
Oct 23 07:39:48 <Khertan_n810> great
Oct 23 07:40:07 <Khertan_n810> 1Euro / Mo
Oct 23 07:40:11 <Khertan_n810> yeah....
Oct 23 07:45:16 <aquatix> that's cheap; if i didn't have my flatfee subscription, i would've need to pay 0.50 EUR/100KB iirc
Oct 23 07:57:07 <prak> has erminig ever gone slow on sync'ing with google calendar?
Oct 23 08:35:17 <liri> am I the only one who finds the Media Player (the default) lacking functionality to just BROWSE directory/files instead of all the fancy sorting by Artist, Album, etc...
Oct 23 08:36:06 * aquatix wouldn't mind having a browse files option too indeed
Oct 23 08:36:21 <aquatix> as sometimes music for example is badly tagged
Oct 23 08:39:20 <liri> moreover, I just categorize my music based on directories
Oct 23 08:39:25 <liri> so I can make collections
Oct 23 08:39:53 <liri> do you happen to know if Canola or UKMP support that browsing style?
Oct 23 08:40:31 <GeneralAntilles> Canola does.
Oct 23 08:41:21 <liri> Good to hear
Oct 23 08:41:42 <liri> Although Canola's support for album cover art grabbing is awful (it's simply not working for me)
Oct 23 08:55:16 <aquatix> liri: there's also mpd and mpc
Oct 23 08:55:33 <aquatix> maybe even the sonata mpd client
Oct 23 09:06:02 <GeneralAntilles> Woo, more positive responses from maintainers
Oct 23 09:06:05 <GeneralAntilles> Boingo, too!
Oct 23 09:06:36 <X-Fade> Nice!
Oct 23 09:09:50 <liri> aquatix: so when media player runs on the tablet it's also running an mpd process which the mpc can connect to?
Oct 23 09:10:20 <liri> aquatix: so I can run the mpc thing and connect locally to the tablet?
Oct 23 09:10:43 <aquatix> liri: if you install mpd, it runs as daemon
Oct 23 09:10:56 <GeneralAntilles> Marcell hooked me up with an internal contact, ended up with a General Manager. ;)
Oct 23 09:10:57 <aquatix> and then you can run the mpc client to connect locally to the mpd
Oct 23 09:11:05 <aquatix> GeneralAntilles: :)
Oct 23 09:12:28 <liri> I see
Oct 23 09:12:53 <liri> it's frustrating... too many programs to do simple things
Oct 23 09:13:05 <liri> I like Canola for it's UPNP capabilities
Oct 23 09:13:15 <liri> I like UKMP for it's song/album listing interface
Oct 23 09:13:19 <aquatix> myeah, mpd is a replacement for your music player
Oct 23 09:13:32 <aquatix> true
Oct 23 09:13:36 <liri> and now it seems that I need mpd and mpc for the dir browsing thing
Oct 23 09:13:43 <liri> it's somewhat annoying.
Oct 23 09:15:18 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: This is a list of 'user' sections used in diablo Extras: http://friendpaste.com/AmeDTYKA
Oct 23 09:16:57 <GeneralAntilles> I think I've hit almost everybody
Oct 23 09:17:15 <GeneralAntilles> Need to bug somebody from FBReader about libz
Oct 23 09:17:42 <GeneralAntilles> Still a few I haven't gotten responses on
Oct 23 09:17:48 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: We might want to pick the ones from that list that seem a reasonable candidate to be added.
Oct 23 09:18:24 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe utilities
Oct 23 09:18:34 <GeneralAntilles> accessories/utilities/tools are all a bit confusing, though.
Oct 23 09:19:35 <GeneralAntilles> I'm liking navigation more and more
Oct 23 09:20:42 <X-Fade> What to do with im/communication/comm/email ;)
Oct 23 09:20:58 <GeneralAntilles> user/communication
Oct 23 09:20:59 <aquatix> comm++
Oct 23 09:21:04 <GeneralAntilles> It's localized
Oct 23 09:21:11 <aquatix> yeah, that sounds good
Oct 23 09:22:29 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody requested user/fonts
Oct 23 09:22:56 <X-Fade> And what to do with user/languages..
Oct 23 09:23:39 <GeneralAntilles> What's in there now? h-i-m support stuff?
Oct 23 09:24:55 <X-Fade> Package: hebrew
Oct 23 09:25:18 <GeneralAntilles> Seems to me like it'd work fine in Support.
Oct 23 09:27:28 <GeneralAntilles> Desktop is good
Oct 23 09:27:32 <GeneralAntilles> Toss all the applets in there
Oct 23 09:28:26 <hrw> morning
Oct 23 09:29:32 <X-Fade> What about user/cli?
Oct 23 09:29:41 <GeneralAntilles> Tools
Oct 23 09:29:50 * Mousey glees
Oct 23 09:29:56 * Mousey gets his tablet back
Oct 23 09:30:14 <Mousey> anybody seen this before? Version of 'sw-release': RX-44_2008SE_2.2007.51-3.4.SINGTEL_PR_SI0
Oct 23 09:30:31 <johnx> yup, on itt a couple people have it
Oct 23 09:30:37 <wiza> I only use it for gps anymore, e90 handles all the rest
Oct 23 09:30:44 <GeneralAntilles> Mousey, are you in Singapore?
Oct 23 09:30:52 <johnx> comes from n810s shipped by singtel :)
Oct 23 09:30:55 <Mousey> no, seattle actually
Oct 23 09:31:16 <Mousey> won't stop me from uping to diablo will it?
Oct 23 09:31:31 <Mousey> +grade
Oct 23 09:31:37 <GeneralAntilles> How the hell did a Singtel firmware end up on your tablet?
Oct 23 09:31:44 <Mousey> uh, wasn't easy
Oct 23 09:31:53 <johnx> O_o
Oct 23 09:31:55 <Mousey> actually, like i said, i got it back from repair
Oct 23 09:32:07 <Mousey> turned it on, and hello, cool walllpaper
Oct 23 09:32:08 <GeneralAntilles> With that firmware?
Oct 23 09:32:12 <Mousey> ^_^
Oct 23 09:32:13 <GeneralAntilles> FROM NOKIA?!
Oct 23 09:32:34 <Mousey> Palco, i guess, alabama 3rd party repair joint.. probably some ol' refurb'd part
Oct 23 09:32:43 <GeneralAntilles> Bizarre
Oct 23 09:32:55 <GeneralAntilles> Well, you may have some trouble upgrading
Oct 23 09:32:57 <Mousey> bless their little southern hearts for sending me a working tablet tho.. ^__^
Oct 23 09:33:08 <GeneralAntilles> Should be able to get around it by flashing everything individually, though.
Oct 23 09:33:10 <Mousey> yah, uh. i noticed it called me a name
Oct 23 09:33:47 <Mousey> so no convenient --flash-it-anyway huh?
Oct 23 09:33:58 <GeneralAntilles> No
Oct 23 09:34:05 <GeneralAntilles> Unpack it and flash each part.
Oct 23 09:34:08 <Mousey> do i need a different NOLO or something?
Oct 23 09:34:10 <Mousey> oh my
Oct 23 09:34:56 * Mousey grasps at straws
Oct 23 09:36:37 <Mousey> hey, is there something i can flash [of the individual things to flash] that maybe will let me just reflash the whole image once i've done it? i mean.. once i flash every individual piece, would that mean i could then -re-flash- it with the whole  image?
Oct 23 09:36:57 <GeneralAntilles> I believe so
Oct 23 09:37:21 <GeneralAntilles> but my brain's not in the mode to either recall whether or not that's true.
Oct 23 09:37:31 <GeneralAntilles> . . . nor ponder it out
Oct 23 09:37:39 <Mousey> no no.. mine either
Oct 23 09:37:44 <johnx> Mousey, search itt for singtel to get some ideas :)
Oct 23 09:37:50 <Mousey> k
Oct 23 09:38:16 <johnx> also save us a copy of the background first if it's cool looking :)
Oct 23 09:39:41 <Mousey> yah, totally doing that
Oct 23 09:51:23 <Mousey> from apt repo
Oct 23 09:51:24 <Mousey> osso-software-version-rx-44-singtel - Placeholder to support lock-down
Oct 23 09:51:30 <Mousey> wow!
Oct 23 09:51:42 <rmrfchik> lock down?
Oct 23 09:51:55 <Mousey> i donno. that's from the apt db on my tablet
Oct 23 09:55:25 <Mousey> singtel wallpaper archived
Oct 23 09:56:55 <Mousey> get it while supplies last: http://ross154.net/~mprov/singtel_background.png
Oct 23 09:57:48 <LinuxCode> it looks
Oct 23 09:57:50 <LinuxCode> rather
Oct 23 09:57:57 <LinuxCode> kiddy orientated
Oct 23 10:01:56 <X-Fade> Wow, that is ... ugly ;)
Oct 23 10:06:11 <Mousey> hmm, now i get Version of 'sw-release': <no version>
Oct 23 10:22:10 <Mousey> ah HA
Oct 23 10:22:21 <Mousey> either i'm a complete idiot or the documentation is wrong
Oct 23 10:22:24 <Mousey> [or both]
Oct 23 10:24:35 <Mousey> it flashes fine with the diablo firmware
Oct 23 10:24:37 <Mousey> i see now
Oct 23 10:24:38 <Mousey> i am an idiot
Oct 23 10:24:43 <Mousey> the documentation is right
Oct 23 10:25:06 <Mousey> yay!! i'm an idiot with a diablo firmware, better stay off the sidewalks!! ^^
Oct 23 10:25:30 <Mousey> g'nite y'all
Oct 23 10:28:37 <lardman> With the collaboration emails going back and forth, I wonder where the best place is to do this collaboration - or perhaps the earlier step of brainstorming and seeing what projects are out there, etc?
Oct 23 10:44:02 <ignacius> hi there!
Oct 23 10:44:30 <ignacius> is there any gcc 4.x packege for maemo sdk?
Oct 23 10:44:43 <ignacius> package
Oct 23 11:08:12 * lardman about to watch himself on community council video, preparing to cringe :)
Oct 23 11:17:20 <Khertan_n810> hi again
Oct 23 11:20:29 <liri> hey Khertan_n810
Oct 23 11:20:38 <Khertan_n810> :)
Oct 23 11:21:46 <Khertan_n810> hi liri
Oct 23 11:25:40 <liri> how's it going Khertan?
Oct 23 11:33:51 <Khertan_n810> liri > my data connection suck
Oct 23 11:34:07 <Khertan_n810> and orange has block googleimap
Oct 23 11:34:25 <Khertan_n810> i hate it
Oct 23 11:34:43 <Khertan_n810> and other mobile french isp suck so much
Oct 23 11:34:52 <Khertan_n810> that there is any other option
Oct 23 11:35:51 <aquatix> lardman: and? :)
Oct 23 11:36:46 <lardman> aquatix: not too embarassed, I do say "um" too often though
Oct 23 11:37:54 <aquatix> you're far from the only one
Oct 23 11:38:11 * aquatix sees lots of speakers that 'um' too much
Oct 23 11:38:15 <aquatix> i guess myself included
Oct 23 11:38:21 <Fatal> um
Oct 23 11:54:46 <RST38h> moo again
Oct 23 11:59:27 <RST38h> Google does a Nokia on Android developers: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/23/android_limitations/
Oct 23 12:01:52 <johnx> RST38h, thats hardly a restriction worth caring about ...
Oct 23 12:24:26 <prometoys> hi, is there somewhere a documentation how to port a package to maemo?
Oct 23 12:26:59 <prometoys> I want to recompile the packages hugs and ocaml for maemo, both are just terminal applications
Oct 23 12:27:55 <johnx> in that case they shouldn't need to be ported
Oct 23 12:28:12 <johnx> you might want to look at mud-builder to get a headstart packaging
Oct 23 12:28:38 <prometoys> johnx: ok, but I must recompile them for ARM, right?
Oct 23 12:28:48 <johnx> yes
Oct 23 12:29:11 <johnx> but with mud builder you can borrow the packaging work from debian for the most part
Oct 23 12:29:25 <johnx> you just have to make sure that nothing in the package or the application relies on bash
Oct 23 12:30:17 <prometoys> johnx: thank you for the hint, I will read the docu of mud-builder
Oct 23 12:30:35 <johnx> also, make sure there isn't already an ocaml package somewhere
Oct 23 12:31:18 <prometoys> johnx: where I can search for existing packages?
Oct 23 12:31:31 <johnx> gronmayer.com/it downloads.maemo.org garage.maemo.org
Oct 23 12:31:46 <johnx> and also of course "packagename maemo" on google :)
Oct 23 12:34:16 <prometoys> johnx: oh yeah, I though nobody needs such "exotic" interpreters on maemo... I need them for an university class :)
Oct 23 12:34:49 <johnx> I googled maemo ocaml and found some results :)
Oct 23 12:35:15 <prometoys> johnx: yes, I did this after you comment, too. And I found packages/repos for both :)
Oct 23 12:35:18 <johnx> there are enough people with tablets that maybe someone else from your class has one too :)
Oct 23 12:36:15 <prometoys> johnx: I don't think so, but I know few people in my uni they have it... I try to encourage them for a local maemo user group...
Oct 23 12:49:08 <prometoys> I found this repository: http://kvo.cs.uow.edu.au/~martin/maemo/repository/binary/ How is the correct syntax for the app catalouge to get the packages via software updates?
Oct 23 12:50:13 <johnx> name: foo repository:  http://kvo.cs.uow.edu.au/~martin/maemo/repository/ : component: binary
Oct 23 12:50:20 <johnx> nothing for distribution
Oct 23 12:50:23 <prometoys> thanks
Oct 23 12:50:32 <johnx> I think :)
Oct 23 12:54:10 <cityLights> hi,
Oct 23 12:54:15 <johnx> hello
Oct 23 12:54:30 <cityLights> i can't remove a email account
Oct 23 12:54:51 <cityLights> what file holds this info in diablo?
Oct 23 12:55:12 <johnx> I believe that info is stored in gconf
Oct 23 12:56:14 <cityLights> how may i clear it?
Oct 23 13:03:57 <johnx> cityLights, honestly I don't know a simple, safe way to do that if the GUI way doesn't work...
Oct 23 13:13:51 <lopz> hello
Oct 23 13:19:00 <ranit> can I get repo for qt4.5
Oct 23 13:20:26 <X-Fade> ranit: Extras-devel only contains 4.4.x at the moment.
Oct 23 13:21:39 <X-Fade> ranit: But there is no official 4.5 release yet, right?
Oct 23 13:21:43 <RST38h> [waking up] johnx: yea, it is really nothign to worry about unless you are Handango (may it burn in hell), but it is amusingly similar to Nokia's restriction
Oct 23 13:22:08 <johnx> RST38h, I'd say it's the polar opposite, but that's just me :)
Oct 23 13:22:32 <RST38h> johnx: You are familiar with application signing guidelines in S60, aren't you?
Oct 23 13:22:41 <johnx> aaah, nokia s60
Oct 23 13:22:49 * RST38h does not mean Maemo of course
Oct 23 13:23:05 <johnx> I didn't even think about s60
Oct 23 13:24:32 <johnx> but still anyone can distribute apps. The only question is arbitrary 3rd parties able to install things without user notifcation or consent
Oct 23 13:24:38 <johnx> is there some user who *wants* that?
Oct 23 13:26:27 <ranit> i am really excited about the release .. 'cause it will have faster paintengine and hopefully dspmp3sink support.. X-Fade
Oct 23 13:31:57 <aquatix> johnx: i certainly would not indeed
Oct 23 13:32:01 <aquatix> johnx: sounds malware-ish
Oct 23 13:32:32 <johnx> I do love the register though, for its wonderful shock-stories :)
Oct 23 13:32:53 <johnx> they're actually much worse than slashdot and that's saying something
Oct 23 13:34:41 <aquatix> johnx: yeah, i always read them for my evenly weighted news
Oct 23 13:39:55 <baconific> lardman are you around?
Oct 23 13:42:52 <baconific> how does the watchdog program know whether an application has hung and is it possible to activate it and use it in a normal installable app?
Oct 23 13:43:39 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Oct 23 13:44:13 <johnx> baconific, the app must be launched with something like: dsmetool <options> <appname>
Oct 23 13:44:21 <baconific> hiya jaffa
Oct 23 13:44:23 <johnx> look for examples in the init scripts
Oct 23 13:44:41 <baconific> johnx great, but does it detect hung or crashed out
Oct 23 13:44:57 <johnx> crashed only I believe
Oct 23 13:45:20 <johnx> I don't know how it would detect hung apps
Oct 23 13:45:24 <baconific> dang, i need something to detect hung
Oct 23 13:46:14 <johnx> huh...though thinking about it, it can also detect a hung system I believe
Oct 23 13:46:20 <baconific> i think ill put a wrapper and have main app ping a deadmans button (like in lost heh) every few seconds
Oct 23 13:46:30 <lardman> baconific: yes
Oct 23 13:46:42 <johnx> that's how dsmetool/watchdog deals with a hung system
Oct 23 13:47:04 <johnx> if they don't write to a file in /proc every 30? 60? seconds the system reboots
Oct 23 13:47:15 <baconific> thanks john, ill look more into it when im not so poorly
Oct 23 13:47:38 <johnx> just be careful not to make the consequences worse than the situation like watchdog is now :)
Oct 23 13:47:39 <baconific> ooooer not reboot lol, just kill and restart
Oct 23 13:48:05 <lardman> or is it done the same way as the DSP kernel handled, it's polled every X seconds and if it doesn't respond in time it's considered to be "hung"
Oct 23 13:48:08 <aquatix> lcuk: i can has bacon?
Oct 23 13:48:41 <lardman> where the polling might be via dbus for example
Oct 23 13:48:44 <aquatix> or baconific :)
Oct 23 13:48:45 <baconific> simon :) how flexibl-le is dsp, can it read data from files directly and write to arbitary memory
Oct 23 13:48:54 <baconific> aq :)
Oct 23 13:49:10 * aquatix updated liqbase last night ;)
Oct 23 13:49:12 <lardman> baconific: can't read from files directly, and can only write to a shared memory region (which you map on the ARM)
Oct 23 13:49:28 <lardman> baconific: what are you thinking of?
Oct 23 13:49:51 <baconific> dang! so there goes my hope of reading pngs and jpegs on a 2nd core
Oct 23 13:50:05 <lardman> well you could certainly decode them there
Oct 23 13:50:27 <lardman> but you need an ARM-side stub to pass buffers of data over and receive decoded data back - not a big issue
Oct 23 13:50:33 <baconific> yes, i was hoping to offload as much as possible for a smooth scroll
Oct 23 13:50:48 <lardman> certainly doable, I was thinking of try jpeg decompression at some point
Oct 23 13:50:54 <baconific> arbitary cache window
Oct 23 13:51:17 <baconific> nice then ill see if i can prep stuff in a way to test it
Oct 23 13:51:41 <baconific> so if arm loads file to memory and passes pointer it might be doable
Oct 23 13:51:43 <lardman> not arbitrary, you have to map the a shared memory region, then you get a buffer which the DSP can read/write
Oct 23 13:52:22 <lardman> the other option is to hook into libjpeg/libpng and use the DSP to perform the processing (use bulk buffer transfers inside that); would be transparent to the app
Oct 23 13:52:52 <lardman> would also speed up any other apps that use those libs (assuming it's faster of course)
Oct 23 13:52:57 <baconific> and help everyone :) i like thne idea of that more
Oct 23 13:53:29 <lardman> will be interesting, will need re-entrant code as only one dsp task of a given type can run
Oct 23 13:53:54 <baconific> thats got maximun scope - how does dsp do multiprocessing tho, can you continue audio whilst other things
Oct 23 13:54:05 <sp3000> oh, the maemo mapper update seems to have made every hw key "pan north" (except esc)
Oct 23 13:54:12 <lardman> hmm, but perhaps that's not a major issue, just fall back to arm decoding for every other attempt to use libjpeg
Oct 23 13:54:24 <lardman> baconific: yes, it's threaded
Oct 23 13:54:51 <baconific> :)
Oct 23 13:55:27 <baconific> im just thinkin at this point anyway, im far too bleugh to get infront of actual machine
Oct 23 13:55:41 <lardman> shall I start a project?
Oct 23 13:55:50 <baconific> no1 emailme for a day or so i have stomachbug btw
Oct 23 13:55:51 <lardman> I hope it will be a quick and easy port...
Oct 23 13:56:15 * sp3000 agrees that eating email may not be healthy
Oct 23 13:56:36 <lardman> but spam is full of protein!
Oct 23 13:56:41 <jaska> om nom nom?
Oct 23 13:56:48 <baconific> lard, dont you always curse dsp 16 bit bytes
Oct 23 13:56:55 <lardman> yes
Oct 23 13:56:57 <baconific> jpeg is compex algo isnt it
Oct 23 13:57:28 <baconific> unless there is a prewritten dsp16 algo avail already?
Oct 23 13:57:32 <lardman> yes, but there are already macros to handle at least part of the jpeg process and I think I've seen an example code too
Oct 23 13:58:22 <baconific> excellent, start a pro if it will help centralize efforts, we can use it to post infoas discovered
Oct 23 14:00:20 <baconific> :) should we push for a monster 16 core internet tablet
Oct 23 14:01:02 <johnx> 3 cores should be enough for anyone :)
Oct 23 14:01:37 <baconific> 3 *usable* cores yes
Oct 23 14:02:00 <johnx> picky, picky
Oct 23 14:02:02 <johnx> :P
Oct 23 14:02:04 <baconific> cpu+dsp+gpu
Oct 23 14:02:20 <johnx> wait+for+omap3
Oct 23 14:02:40 <baconific> heh
Oct 23 14:04:14 <lardman> right, have submitted dsp-jpeg
Oct 23 14:04:32 <lardman> wrong dsp, but some ideas here: http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/spra704/spra704.pdf and here http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/spra615/spra615.pdf
Oct 23 14:05:08 <baconific> nice, would this code be usable on omap3 or are they not compatible
Oct 23 14:05:45 <lardman> omap3 has an 8bit type, not sure about the intrinsics those files probably use
Oct 23 14:06:03 <lardman> but should be reasonably easy to get something running - in fact the libjpeg code might even just compile
Oct 23 14:06:11 <lardman> (with tweaks for input/output/etc)
Oct 23 14:06:18 <baconific> yeah cool lets see
Oct 23 14:07:21 <lardman> baconific: I'm not around this weekend (or tomorrow for that matter), so won't be able to do anything until next week anyway
Oct 23 14:08:35 <baconific> no prob whatsoever simon, i was just thinking outloud - the number of images i am creatng now causes me to look for optimum ways to load them
Oct 23 14:09:34 <baconific> i may end up saving a thumbnail with everything i write
Oct 23 14:09:49 * baconific wouldnt like that tho
Oct 23 14:10:29 <lardman> baconific: you'll confuse people with your switching usernames, just like the general ;)
Oct 23 14:10:37 <lardman> s/usernames/nicks
Oct 23 14:11:05 <baconific> this is the seconhd time ive donhe this
Oct 23 14:11:45 <derf> Everyone likes bacon.
Oct 23 14:12:00 <derf> Whereas lcuk just looks misspelled.
Oct 23 14:12:18 <baconific> anyway im goin makin a brew back to normal later, im stuck in bed and feelin poorly and even bacon wouldnt help
Oct 23 14:12:33 <johnx> dire straits indeed
Oct 23 14:12:39 <baconific> oh yer
Oct 23 14:13:06 <baconific> cyas later
Oct 23 14:13:30 <lardman> bacon wouldn't help! God help him :)
Oct 23 14:15:50 <johnx> "god help him"? You already said bacon wouldn't work... *confused*
Oct 23 14:15:59 <lardman> :)
Oct 23 14:16:05 <lardman> s/God/FSM
Oct 23 14:16:20 <lardman> meatballs are the only solution
Oct 23 14:16:28 <lardman> (with bacon in them of course)
Oct 23 14:20:12 <X-Fade> lardman: dsp-jpeg approved btw..
Oct 23 14:20:23 <lardman> thanks X-Fade
Oct 23 14:46:56 <lardman> Any complaints if I create a "killer app" page on the wiki for people to suggest what they think would be a "killer app"?
Oct 23 14:47:08 <lardman> or is there already something similar there?
Oct 23 14:47:22 <lardman> or should I tack it on as an extra section to the Nokia sponsorship page?
Oct 23 14:48:19 <X-Fade> What I want is an application where I can look at the street through the camera and see openstreetmap roads overlayed with nice POIs etc. ;)
Oct 23 14:48:46 <lardman> and have the app auto-recognise the street from the camera image? ;)
Oct 23 14:49:01 <X-Fade> Problem is to determine which way you are looking.
Oct 23 14:49:33 <X-Fade> We would need a compass or accelerometer. So you can calibrate your direction.
Oct 23 14:49:34 <lardman> yep, need a compass
Oct 23 14:49:45 <X-Fade> Although walking a few paces should also help there.
Oct 23 14:49:47 <lardman> anyway, that's the sort of thing that would be a killer app
Oct 23 14:50:02 <lardman> X-Fade: in town the gps will return all sorts of spurious headings though
Oct 23 14:50:26 <X-Fade> lardman: Well, write some really clever filter ;)
Oct 23 14:50:48 <X-Fade> Or use an extra gps and combine ;)
Oct 23 14:51:28 <lardman> we could simulate the wave propogation and diffraction caused by the buildings ;)
Oct 23 14:52:05 <X-Fade> Well, things like that need some imagination, but would be really cool projects ;)
Oct 23 14:53:13 <lardman> so how do I create a new page...
Oct 23 14:53:30 <lardman> and more importantly, where?
Oct 23 14:53:38 <qwerty12> https://wiki.maemo.org/dfdsfsdfsd
Oct 23 14:54:02 <qwerty12> Maybe another way to do it but that's the only method I know :P
Oct 23 14:54:07 <lardman> i was wondering if they have to be under some sub-dir, etc
Oct 23 14:54:09 <X-Fade> lardman: I think that if you create it in the wrong place, GA will move it anyway ;)
Oct 23 14:54:26 <lardman> ok
Oct 23 14:58:09 <qwerty12> ~curse Transmission menubars
Oct 23 14:58:10 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Transmission menubars !
Oct 23 14:58:47 <lardman> https://wiki.maemo.org/Killer_Apps
Oct 23 14:58:50 <lardman> right, let's go!
Oct 23 15:06:21 <jaska> looks like you cant remap keys to appear with fn+shift+key
Oct 23 15:06:22 <jaska> :(
Oct 23 15:17:36 * Stskeeps yawns
Oct 23 15:29:57 * yacoob removes stskeeps tonsils in flash
Oct 23 15:30:38 * qwerty12 dons a police officer suit and asks yacoob wtf is he doing with tonsils
Oct 23 15:30:57 <yacoob> "Collecting. Can you say 'aaaa'?"
Oct 23 15:31:11 <qwerty12> aaaa
Oct 23 15:31:18 <yacoob> *fwoosh*
Oct 23 15:31:24 <qwerty12> ocuh
Oct 23 15:31:35 <qwerty12> i cannae speak noo moar
Oct 23 15:31:36 <yacoob> wheee, free tonsils!
Oct 23 15:31:57 <yacoob> (actually, the last line sounds scary. I'll remove myself from keyboard. :)
Oct 23 15:32:10 <qwerty12> hehe
Oct 23 15:32:27 <qwerty12> You've been logged. Expect a real visit from the police :)
Oct 23 15:32:29 <qwerty12> :P
Oct 23 15:32:49 <johnx> and qwerty12's been logged impersonating a police officer :P
Oct 23 15:32:54 <yacoob> ...which brings us to very interesting question. Can you determine my address, having only my nickname?
Oct 23 15:33:10 <qwerty12> oops
Oct 23 15:33:34 <qwerty12> yacoob: They'll hold mgedmin first and make him reveal your ip :p
Oct 23 15:33:53 <yacoob> this probably wouldn't help
Oct 23 15:34:26 <yacoob> okay, after third hop...
Oct 23 15:34:41 <johnx> then they'll look at your host mask :)
Oct 23 15:34:50 <qwerty12> Hmm, hell.pl
Oct 23 15:34:57 <qwerty12> I hear Poland is hell :p
Oct 23 15:35:07 <johnx> netcraft confirms it!
Oct 23 15:35:41 <yacoob> yeah, I should have picked something more exotic
Oct 23 15:36:16 <Stskeeps> heh, GA is certainly leading the ego poll on iTT
Oct 23 15:36:21 <yacoob> a place where they only speak 13th century Flemish
Oct 23 15:36:28 <Stskeeps> (an ego for a person in his position is a good thing though)
Oct 23 15:48:15 <lardman> X-Fade: go on, add your idea!
Oct 23 15:52:32 <penguinbait> are we having fun yet :)
Oct 23 15:52:36 <penguinbait> ?
Oct 23 15:52:53 <lardman> nearly 5pm :)
Oct 23 15:53:05 <penguinbait> almost noon here :(
Oct 23 15:53:06 <jaska> oh well, now i need another way to map ` [ ] { }
Oct 23 15:54:10 <qwerty12> I'm having fun trying to add fullscreen support to transmission >.<
Oct 23 16:02:01 <lardman> bye chaps
Oct 23 16:05:37 <penguinbait> Man I really know how to clear a room :)
Oct 23 16:06:14 <johnx> clear it and refill it, too
Oct 23 16:09:19 <Stskeeps> i'm doing that just now. gf coming home so i'm hiding the gadgets
Oct 23 16:09:27 <Stskeeps> and when she's gone back, back on table ;)
Oct 23 16:11:32 <johnx> heh...my wife doesn't give mind the gadgets ... as long as they stay on *my* desk
Oct 23 16:11:51 * Stskeeps has put her new ipaq 3630 on her table, though
Oct 23 16:11:52 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 23 16:11:52 <johnx> but lately she's been eying my n800 O_o
Oct 23 16:11:59 <Stskeeps> let's see how she reacts to it
Oct 23 16:12:36 <penguinbait> I got my wife an 810 and it was the best investment ever
Oct 23 16:13:05 <penguinbait> except when I have to tell her to put it down and make dinner :)
Oct 23 16:13:40 <Stskeeps> my gf would probably get my n800 when n900 comes out :P
Oct 23 16:13:53 <penguinbait> No more complaining all I do is "play with your stupid computer"
Oct 23 16:14:10 <penguinbait> heheh
Oct 23 16:19:46 <Stskeeps> johnx: seems like xorg omapfb driver is coming along nicely btw
Oct 23 16:19:50 <Stskeeps> (non-kdrive)
Oct 23 16:19:53 <johnx> interesting
Oct 23 16:20:24 <Stskeeps> with xv accel too
Oct 23 16:20:32 <johnx> quite impressive
Oct 23 16:20:49 <johnx> I bet TI and Nokia have a big part in that :)
Oct 23 16:21:28 * Stskeeps points to kulve, zuh
Oct 23 16:21:49 <johnx> :)
Oct 23 16:21:56 <Stskeeps> so i'm not sure it's an TI/Nokia effort
Oct 23 16:22:12 <johnx> very impressive then
Oct 23 16:25:15 <Stskeeps> okay, my glibc compile has completeld and utterly stalled, heh
Oct 23 16:25:32 <johnx> glibc? with optimizations?
Oct 23 16:26:11 <Stskeeps> yeah
Oct 23 16:27:32 <Khertan_n810> hum smtp is now block too
Oct 23 16:27:39 <Khertan_n810> orange really suck !
Oct 23 16:33:55 * Stskeeps tries doing it with distcc this time around.
Oct 23 16:39:28 <johnx> canola+upnp = totally awesome
Oct 23 16:40:33 <qwerty12> w00t, stealing derf's code, sweat & hard work and guess work (did I mention I'm not a programmer :P) and I have transmission that goes fullscreen
Oct 23 16:41:02 <johnx> neat
Oct 23 16:41:57 <qwerty12> I'll shove it in extras-devel now. Still could do with work but it works better than pipeline's builds :)
Oct 23 16:44:07 <johnx> so, I've concluded that my apartment is basically a faraday cage: I get no FM signal inside it
Oct 23 16:44:34 <qwerty12> With any radio or did I apply that patch dodgily...
Oct 23 16:45:10 <johnx> well...and this is kind strange for me: I don't actually *own* anything else with a built in FM radio O_o
Oct 23 16:45:54 <qwerty12> :), Looking at it, I probably did apply it correctly because I wouldn't be getting static at all here :p
Oct 23 16:46:10 <johnx> yeah, I think it's fine
Oct 23 16:46:20 <l7_> ugh, what happ
Oct 23 16:46:29 <l7_> what happened to the options to use google maps in maemo mapper?
Oct 23 16:46:57 <qwerty12> The option to download map repo's moved from the map dialog box to the menu.
Oct 23 16:47:02 <qwerty12> -'s
Oct 23 16:47:04 <qwerty12> +s
Oct 23 16:47:13 <l7_> oh, let me check
Oct 23 16:47:17 <l7_> phew :)
Oct 23 16:47:20 <johnx> and mediabox svn shows the right frequencies and even stops once while scanning like it found a station
Oct 23 16:47:35 <Stskeeps> johnx: i get zip fm signal when in my entrance :P
Oct 23 16:47:55 <johnx> I think my apt is made of steel O_o
Oct 23 16:48:21 <Stskeeps> this dorm i live at is known to be the only dorm still standing after a nuclear blast
Oct 23 16:48:51 <johnx> nuclear test ground university?
Oct 23 16:48:58 <johnx> have any zombie problems?
Oct 23 16:49:49 <qwerty12> Yeah, did a check, the patch is applied properly: "6 out of 6 hunks ignored -- saving rejects to file radio-tea5761.c.rej"
Oct 23 16:50:18 <johnx> yeah, I didn't really doubt that. I'll head out later today (tomorrow) and test it
Oct 23 16:50:22 <qwerty12> According to the mediabox guy (who also made that patch), it was tested successfully in Japan :)
Oct 23 16:50:28 <johnx> huh
Oct 23 16:50:34 <johnx> it's totally my apt then
Oct 23 16:50:35 <johnx> weird
Oct 23 16:51:36 <l7_> hrm, i don't understand why so many apps default to saving into your onboard memory
Oct 23 16:51:47 <johnx> because not everyone has an n800
Oct 23 16:51:51 <johnx> s/n800/n810/
Oct 23 16:51:51 <infobot> johnx meant: because not everyone has an n810
Oct 23 16:51:52 <disco_stu> hi !
Oct 23 16:52:14 <Stskeeps> johnx: actually we do.. once i was standing outside my uni building and a couple of very old ladies came walking.. totally walking like zombies
Oct 23 16:52:19 <Stskeeps> that was bizarre
Oct 23 16:52:21 <l7_> i guess i could replace those directories with symlinks
Oct 23 16:52:32 <l7_> too lazy right now to test it
Oct 23 16:52:44 <disco_stu> blah
Oct 23 16:52:48 <disco_stu> s/blah/bleh
Oct 23 16:53:06 <disco_stu> lazy bot..
Oct 23 16:53:13 <johnx> watch your syntax :)
Oct 23 16:53:15 <disco_stu> s/blah/bleh/
Oct 23 16:53:26 <disco_stu> haha
Oct 23 16:53:38 <johnx> s/watch your syntax/it only works on the last thing you typed/
Oct 23 16:53:38 <infobot> johnx meant: it only works on the last thing you typed :)
Oct 23 16:53:52 <disco_stu> i see
Oct 23 16:54:07 <disco_stu> s/see/See/
Oct 23 16:54:08 <infobot> disco_stu meant: i See
Oct 23 16:54:23 <disco_stu> lol
Oct 23 16:55:00 <qwerty12> Anyone know what locales are supported by maemo?
Oct 23 16:56:06 <qwerty12> Never mind, locale -a works a treat
Oct 23 16:57:27 <disco_stu> i found xvbkd to be the best app for maemo
Oct 23 16:57:42 <disco_stu> never using the hildon keyboard anymore
Oct 23 16:58:16 <johnx> not a big fan of fullscreen keyboards?
Oct 23 16:58:58 <disco_stu> johnx: it is good for xterm, links2 and that kind of appz
Oct 23 16:59:09 <disco_stu> beacuse with a click you can send Ctrl+C
Oct 23 16:59:11 <disco_stu> for example
Oct 23 16:59:31 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, that poll makes me sad. :(
Oct 23 16:59:33 <johnx> I just put shortcuts on the bottom of my osso-xterm...
Oct 23 16:59:43 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: just wait, i'm an upcomer :P
Oct 23 16:59:55 <disco_stu> johnx: try xvkbd ..
Oct 23 17:00:32 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: but anyway, ego is a good thing,  - atleast you're not Theo-mad-eogo ;)
Oct 23 17:01:16 <johnx> disco_stu, maybe later....I'm actually really happy with Nokia's input stuff
Oct 23 17:01:57 <GeneralAntilles> Whatever people may think, I'm just not that self-centered.
Oct 23 17:02:04 <disco_stu> johnx: the stock input methods aren't good for xterm
Oct 23 17:02:28 <johnx> I appreciate your input. I find them adequate.
Oct 23 17:02:36 <GeneralAntilles> The religion thread made me laugh watching two of my more favorite idiots duke it out.
Oct 23 17:02:56 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: hehe, i see ego more as "strong personality", i guess :)
Oct 23 17:03:01 <MangoFusion> somebody made a religion thread?
Oct 23 17:03:04 <MangoFusion> how insane are they?
Oct 23 17:03:11 <GeneralAntilles> MangoFusion, penguinbait, of course.
Oct 23 17:04:03 <qwerty12> It was obvious what was going to happen in the thread anyway :p
Oct 23 17:04:42 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, not so bad if you put it that way, but I doubt most of the voters would. ;)
Oct 23 17:08:13 <_julian> hi
Oct 23 17:08:30 <_julian> what would you suggest for starting an application right after maemo boot up automatically?
Oct 23 17:08:40 <Stskeeps> johnx: want to be test person of a optimized glibc once this thing is done distccing?
Oct 23 17:08:52 <johnx> sure
Oct 23 17:09:09 <johnx> can I just dpkg -i or will it be a new install?
Oct 23 17:09:27 <melmoth> _julian: /etc/init.d and regular system V init script s ? though i m not sure it will have a DISPLAY
Oct 23 17:09:28 <Stskeeps> think it would dpkg -i'able
Oct 23 17:09:36 <melmoth> but it may launch an osso service request
Oct 23 17:09:37 <Stskeeps> and a new install if it hoses it ;)
Oct 23 17:09:55 <Stskeeps> (i will test on my own install too)
Oct 23 17:10:15 <johnx> mine's been sitting dormant, so I'm happy to go first if it makes it easier
Oct 23 17:10:24 <johnx> been playing with other desktops on my zaurus
Oct 23 17:10:55 <disco_stu> johnx: are zaurus better than NIT's ?
Oct 23 17:11:04 <disco_stu> i've heard a lot about them
Oct 23 17:11:13 <johnx> it depends on what you want
Oct 23 17:11:15 <Stskeeps> johnx: yeah.. my deblet work isn't so active right now either
Oct 23 17:11:16 <johnx> but I'd say no
Oct 23 17:12:08 <disco_stu> johnx: as for newtons, the experience is better than with a NIT, even when newton is old
Oct 23 17:12:26 <johnx> disco_stu, really. how's the web browsing on newtons over wifi?
Oct 23 17:12:52 <johnx> do they have a good command line environment?
Oct 23 17:13:24 <disco_stu> johnx: PIM oriented activity
Oct 23 17:13:56 <johnx> ah, I do PIM on my phone. my main interest is web/music/video/ and sometimes commandline
Oct 23 17:14:11 <_julian> melmoth: hmm ok, should be possible
Oct 23 17:14:27 * Stskeeps would really enjoy a simple ical reader + "internal" "mail to myself" button
Oct 23 17:14:40 <disco_stu> is a good way
Oct 23 17:14:59 <Stskeeps> so i can get my ical from my work calendar, and mail new items on the fly / queue to when i'm nearby wifi again
Oct 23 17:15:05 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Doesn't mcalendar do that?
Oct 23 17:15:45 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: i guess i should try it out eventually
Oct 23 17:16:11 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, SSH works on the Newton. ;)
Oct 23 17:16:24 <GeneralAntilles> Web browsing is about as good as one would expect for a device from 1996.
Oct 23 17:16:36 <johnx> I'm not knocking it for its *time*
Oct 23 17:16:44 <GeneralAntilles> The tablets kind of felt like a logical next step to me.
Oct 23 17:16:52 <johnx> just as I'd expect anyone to respect a zaurus 5500 circa 2002
Oct 23 17:16:53 <GeneralAntilles> But I use the devices very differently.
Oct 23 17:17:36 <GeneralAntilles> Newton is more of an electronic piece of paper. Sketching, note taking, PIM, etc. while the tablets are internet, communication, and media-oriented.
Oct 23 17:18:19 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody should get lcuk a Newton to play with. . . .
Oct 23 17:18:22 <johnx> I'm really starting to like the idea of a clamshell foldout "book" with two edge-to-edge touchscreens
Oct 23 17:18:48 <johnx> hopefully with minimal bezel between them
Oct 23 17:19:58 <johnx> but sadly, no one has hired me as a design consultant yet :/ :P
Oct 23 17:20:04 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody have any opinions on whether user/navigation belongs in our list of valid categories?
Oct 23 17:20:12 <johnx> what's in it?
Oct 23 17:20:23 <RST38h> Newton was quite a thick and heavy piece of paper
Oct 23 17:20:34 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories#Additional_categories :)
Oct 23 17:20:46 <GeneralAntilles> GPS and mapping applications
Oct 23 17:21:00 <johnx> maybe user/location ?
Oct 23 17:21:01 * RST38h wonders whether he can talk lcuk into changing concept a little
Oct 23 17:21:15 * lcuk is listening :)
Oct 23 17:21:17 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, yeah, I only tried to carry it in a pocket once. ;)
Oct 23 17:21:25 <Stskeeps> dear god - don't tell me qole started redistributing flash + the flash hack in the image file. i really tried hard to avoid that situation
Oct 23 17:21:29 <cityLights> i can't remove an account at modest email/client
Oct 23 17:21:36 <RST38h> General: you could probably use it as a blunt object though...
Oct 23 17:21:50 <GeneralAntilles> The screen size was really an advantage, though.
Oct 23 17:21:51 <RST38h> lcuk: I would do away with the top menu.
Oct 23 17:21:59 <GeneralAntilles> Made it easier to write on.
Oct 23 17:22:03 <cityLights> can i remove it using gconf?
Oct 23 17:22:07 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, thanks! ;)
Oct 23 17:22:13 <GeneralAntilles> Got an email back from Marko.
Oct 23 17:22:31 <johnx> Stskeeps, well, you remember what I did in beta3...
Oct 23 17:22:32 <lcuk> just open media reading: available to draw or type or nick camera and audio from - an open input multi format device?
Oct 23 17:22:33 <RST38h> lcuk: Would just have a huge piece of "paper", scrollable one, with settable background (like Xournal)
Oct 23 17:22:56 <johnx> Stskeeps, also, it's a good test to see if qgil was speaking for all Nokia :)
Oct 23 17:23:00 <Stskeeps> true
Oct 23 17:23:01 <RST38h> lcuk: Now, the display would have normal paint tools that you have right now (as icons of course)
Oct 23 17:23:38 <Stskeeps> johnx: then again i make absolutely sure it's done on tablet or acquired from rootfs to construct th eimage 
Oct 23 17:23:42 * johnx dreams of active digitizers...
Oct 23 17:23:47 <RST38h> lcuk: For camera use, it would have a camera icon - you press the button and it places camera snapshot at whatever part of the "paper" you are currently viewing - you can add your own doodles straight on top og it afterwards
Oct 23 17:23:49 <Stskeeps> it'd be a matter of a cp in the postinst of this thing
Oct 23 17:24:02 <RST38h> johnx: what do digitizers dream about though?
Oct 23 17:24:11 <johnx> RST38h, me!
Oct 23 17:24:25 <Stskeeps> johnx: then again i don't understand why noone has tried to get flash on the other armel platforms just yet
Oct 23 17:24:40 <lcuk> yes rst, im considering things like that already, getting the data into the system is more important, i will add additional interfaces to playing as i get round to building them
Oct 23 17:24:41 <johnx> what other armel platforms?
Oct 23 17:24:49 <lcuk> however for now i must slow right down
Oct 23 17:25:04 <RST38h> lcuk: For document viewing, there would be an "open document" icon that would put the whole document at the current paper" location, extended down - again, you can write your doodles on top
Oct 23 17:25:14 <Stskeeps> johnx: well, i'm inclined to think it would work on similar devices to the n8x0's
Oct 23 17:25:19 <lcuk> johnx, http://liqbase.net/double_tiny.JPG
Oct 23 17:25:20 <johnx> archos has it, iphone runs osx, zaurus doesn't have the guts for it anyways,
Oct 23 17:25:30 <Stskeeps> true
Oct 23 17:25:30 <RST38h> lcuk: The key is to make it look like an APPLICATION not like a demo though
Oct 23 17:25:36 <Stskeeps> i guess pandora isn't even out yet
Oct 23 17:25:43 <suihkulokki> openmoko doesn't have guts either
Oct 23 17:25:46 <RST38h> lcuk: Once it is an application, lots more people will use it and comment on it
Oct 23 17:25:50 <johnx> lcuk, exactly, except with a hinge in the middle :)
Oct 23 17:25:57 * Stskeeps should test on the beagleboard..
Oct 23 17:25:57 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 23 17:26:17 <lcuk> RST38h, currently its perfect as it is: i simply let someone look at my "demo" and i get a photo of them, some doodles and input from them - its interactive and simple and later on i recall who they were and what was happening
Oct 23 17:26:32 <lcuk> its a sharing tool and does not have to be formal
Oct 23 17:26:40 <johnx> Stskeeps, the pandora guys are already talking about it. Lots of users want to use maemo in binary form, without thought to legality
Oct 23 17:27:34 <Stskeeps> johnx: it's funny how open source thought and piracy goes handy in hand at times..
Oct 23 17:28:35 <lcuk> remember RST38h i wrote this for myself right now.  it is the start of what *i* want for a program and i aim to see what works on a touchscreen.  because my coding time is limited i have to make user #1 happy :)  when i get more time with this i will do a lot more
Oct 23 17:28:44 <RST38h> yes, I understand
Oct 23 17:28:45 <Stskeeps> johnx: but maemo in binary form isn't directly impossible
Oct 23 17:28:49 <johnx> Stskeeps, hmm...I think the situation with the pandora has more to do with its emulator/ROMs roots
Oct 23 17:28:50 * GeneralAntilles fires a warning shot over Stskeeps' bow.
Oct 23 17:29:30 <Stskeeps> johnx: ah
Oct 23 17:29:33 <Stskeeps> that too :P
Oct 23 17:29:41 <lcuk> RST38h,, probably just bein overly touchy cos i would love to expand these ideas and do even more with it
Oct 23 17:29:46 <RST38h> Isn't Maemo open source in the sense that other manufacturers can use it if they want to?
Oct 23 17:29:56 <RST38h> lcuk: you are ok :)
Oct 23 17:30:02 <johnx> RST38h, yes, they can use the parts that are open
Oct 23 17:30:06 <GeneralAntilles> Not "Maemo" in whole.
Oct 23 17:30:11 <johnx> RST38h, which gets you a panel and some UI libs
Oct 23 17:30:16 <GeneralAntilles> As "Maemo" includes binary parts
Oct 23 17:30:17 <RST38h> lcuk: just think more of presenting it to other people, as it is no longer an internal project ;)
Oct 23 17:30:18 <johnx> and a demo app
Oct 23 17:30:26 <Stskeeps> i'd stil llike to see if people can construct maemo from scratch really
Oct 23 17:30:29 <lcuk> yeah i know :$
Oct 23 17:30:33 <Stskeeps> that's a test if a system is properly open soure really
Oct 23 17:30:35 <lcuk> still gotta get used to that i suppose
Oct 23 17:30:51 <lcuk> but ive coded so much for myself for years its hard to break that
Oct 23 17:30:53 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, then go and show Nokia the areas where they fail.
Oct 23 17:30:58 <RST38h> lcuk: people are kinda stupid in the sense that presentation matters more to them than the actual functionality
Oct 23 17:31:04 <RST38h> lcuk: See: Steve Jobs ;)
Oct 23 17:31:16 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i'm afraid i'll go absolutely insane before i get to a proper summary
Oct 23 17:31:18 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, it's a lot of work just to prove a point
Oct 23 17:31:37 <GeneralAntilles> Fair enough
Oct 23 17:31:42 <lcuk> to me the interaction is more important - liqbase responds to a user as they expect and the unfinished interface proves that it works
Oct 23 17:31:42 * RST38h thinks Nokia should just allow running Maemo on Pandora
Oct 23 17:31:46 <RST38h> No big deal.
Oct 23 17:31:53 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, I think both of us can honestly say that bringing a whole distribution to a platform is easier than bringing maemo to another distro
Oct 23 17:32:10 <lcuk> RST38h, did you see that people sussed about the theming
Oct 23 17:32:19 <RST38h> lcuk: Nobody takes away the interaction ;) Actually, the suggested changes improve it
Oct 23 17:32:30 <RST38h> lcuk: THEMING? Geeks! =)
Oct 23 17:32:39 <johnx> RST38h, they seem intent on casting it into a grey area. "It's ok, and we probably won't sue you...unless we change our mind later if it gets popular."
Oct 23 17:32:50 <Stskeeps> right, getting cigs and food
Oct 23 17:32:51 <Stskeeps> bbl
Oct 23 17:32:58 <johnx> 'later
Oct 23 17:32:58 <RST38h> Pandora is no threat to Nokia
Oct 23 17:33:20 <RST38h> Much smaller outfit, hobbyist niche, no phone hw
Oct 23 17:33:39 <lcuk> RST38h, i had loads of people saying "i dont like the buttons with words on
Oct 23 17:33:48 <johnx> RST38h, did you read qgil's post about it?
Oct 23 17:33:59 <RST38h> not yet
Oct 23 17:34:04 <RST38h> where?
Oct 23 17:34:08 <johnx> one sec
Oct 23 17:34:15 <RST38h> lcuk: Well, I also agree that words must go.
Oct 23 17:34:36 <RST38h> Replce them with simple clean white icons with black outlines (just in case the screen becomes white)
Oct 23 17:34:47 <lcuk> dev version here has everything replaced, but i dont like it so my theme will be "remove all theming ;)"
Oct 23 17:34:49 <RST38h> But theming them is probably excessive :)
Oct 23 17:35:13 <lcuk> any sketch can be used to repalce any ui element :)
Oct 23 17:35:16 <lcuk> button ^
Oct 23 17:35:21 <RST38h> umgh
Oct 23 17:35:27 <johnx> RST38h, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=233546&postcount=24
Oct 23 17:35:29 <lcuk> heh, it works you know :P
Oct 23 17:35:32 <GeneralAntilles> The marble background from Win95 has to go.
Oct 23 17:35:33 <RST38h> I would prefer predesigned icons :)
Oct 23 17:35:41 * johnx doesn't like legal grey area in big projects...
Oct 23 17:35:53 <RST38h> Not all things you CAN do, you SHOULD do :)
Oct 23 17:36:40 <RST38h> johnx: it is a sensible answer. he is basicaly asking pandora guys to talk to him directly.
Oct 23 17:36:56 <RST38h> johnx: once they do, the area will become either white or black
Oct 23 17:37:20 <RST38h> but they have to come with a concrete request for concrete stuff, which is logical
Oct 23 17:37:27 <lcuk> RST38h, nothing is stopping me from tweaking this slightly to allow a themeset to be packaged up and used by anyone :)
Oct 23 17:37:31 * GeneralAntilles chuckles at Engadget posters wanting 2GB of RAM on a MID.
Oct 23 17:37:52 <RST38h> General: And I am sure they want MS Office with that :)
Oct 23 17:37:57 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, I do wonder how many watts of DC that would pull...
Oct 23 17:38:13 <GeneralAntilles> Does the Atom even support 2GB yet?
Oct 23 17:38:14 * disco_stu starts reading about ipsec 
Oct 23 17:38:21 <lcuk> anyway, im vanihsing again, head is still swimming looking at the screen
Oct 23 17:38:33 <johnx> RST38h, I kind of got the feeling that it was more "Start the project, then maybe later we'll do something one way or the other."
Oct 23 17:38:34 <RST38h> lcuk: Notice that I did not ask for a themable UI, I just asked for nicer icons :)
Oct 23 17:38:59 <RST38h> johnx: that too - you can't make a concrete request until you start the project
Oct 23 17:39:05 <lcuk> heh yeah - but if someone is an icon artist and they make some nice ones, it would be nice to allow them to be shared
Oct 23 17:39:28 * lcuk actually wants sketch animations
Oct 23 17:39:29 <RST38h> Russia Mandates Free Software For Public Schools <--- Microsoft finally undid itself
Oct 23 17:39:35 <RST38h> at least locally
Oct 23 17:40:03 * GeneralAntilles has a flashback to a lab full of shitty Dells running XP.
Oct 23 17:40:06 <RST38h> lcuk: just steal some, creatively. gimme a moment.
Oct 23 17:40:09 <johnx> RST38h, on the other side, I'm not going to sink time into something that's on shaky legal ground
Oct 23 17:40:29 <lcuk> its ok im goin, RST38h we shall continue another time :)
Oct 23 17:40:33 <johnx> RST38h, RE: MS in Russia. China's not too warm and fuzzy about MS these days either :)
Oct 23 17:40:39 * RST38h has flashbacks to labs full of shitty microVAXen running Ultrix
Oct 23 17:40:42 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, that's why we need to find somebody more gullible and with fewer scruples!
Oct 23 17:40:54 <RST38h> lcuk: I will find some for the next time
Oct 23 17:41:03 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, there will be a hacked up maemo running on the pandora, I have no doubt
Oct 23 17:41:14 <GeneralAntilles> There already is on the Beagle.
Oct 23 17:41:16 <johnx> but I'm not going to sink my time into it
Oct 23 17:41:26 <RST38h> johnx: MS made headlines by trying to sue some poor school director who has got a bunch of PCs with pirated Windows
Oct 23 17:41:37 <GeneralAntilles> Though I've yet to get real details on the specifics of the implementation.
Oct 23 17:41:43 <RST38h> johnx: Actually, they wanted his confession but got a finger instead
Oct 23 17:41:45 <johnx> RST38h, yeah, heard about that. how did that turn out?
Oct 23 17:42:00 <RST38h> johnx: Well, today you can see hoe it turned out :)
Oct 23 17:42:38 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, specifics? get a basic console+x11 install done. pile everything maemo-ish into place, hack around the outside until it runs. :)
Oct 23 17:42:52 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, those aren't specifics. :P
Oct 23 17:43:09 <suihkulokki> I think you assuming too much if you expect that Nokia lawyers have *time* to look at which "joe random hacker in basement" project uses closed code from nokia
Oct 23 17:43:13 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, meh. the rest is just implementation
Oct 23 17:43:29 <ShadowJK_> atom? 2GB? I have one with 2 gig ram if that's what you mean...
Oct 23 17:43:44 <suihkulokki> however, they will come after you if start making devices and puttin N software there
Oct 23 17:44:05 <GeneralAntilles> My approach was just cloning a Maemo rootfs to an SD card and trying to boot directly from the kernel without an initfs.
Oct 23 17:44:17 <GeneralAntilles> I'm interested in knowing how they set up the initfs.
Oct 23 17:44:30 <johnx> suihkulokki, I'm not expecting big lawsuits, just a cease and desist maybe months or years down the road after it makes news in engadget and some higher-up Nokia suit reads it and asks "Why is our software on that other device? WTH?"
Oct 23 17:45:48 <qwerty12> They probably don't, initfs is very internet tablet specific. Though it isn't hard to modify the initfs.
Oct 23 17:45:51 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, it's probably a hybridized setup. Basic Debian (or angstrom) beagle image with x server, then manually copy maemo libs and binaries into it
Oct 23 17:46:16 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, it's probably completely fragile. For example I'd expect installing anything would break it
Oct 23 17:49:16 <GeneralAntilles> Hmm . . . Fallout 3 is close.
Oct 23 17:49:44 <penguinbait> GA think you were elected, everyone voted for you
Oct 23 17:52:02 <penguinbait> My next poll "do you like walks on the beach"
Oct 23 17:52:17 * GeneralAntilles plans more evil things for the council.
Oct 23 17:52:56 <johnx> "first order of business, renaming from maemo council to evil council to fit our new agenda"
Oct 23 17:53:17 <GeneralAntilles> Retribution move against the council, not against the community at large.
Oct 23 17:53:29 <Stskeeps> johnx: http://benno.id.au/blog/
Oct 23 17:53:29 <johnx> disappointing :/
Oct 23 17:53:47 <johnx> woohoo!
Oct 23 17:54:56 <johnx> jeez, that guy's been busy
Oct 23 17:55:21 <Stskeeps> think he was involved with some of the L4 microkernel stuff too
Oct 23 17:56:00 <gregorovius> I'd say 'evil council of evil'
Oct 23 17:56:08 <gregorovius> that's... more evil
Oct 23 17:56:30 <GeneralAntilles> I'd say "the rest of the council are now working for Darius"
Oct 23 17:56:42 * johnx dreams of android for armv4 (not armv4t)
Oct 23 17:56:58 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, well of course. He's so charismatic
Oct 23 17:57:18 <RST38h> General: Have they all got their aminazin shots?
Oct 23 18:25:35 <johnx> qwerty12_N800, did you catch the follow-up to your bug comment about the charger message?
Oct 23 18:26:12 <qwerty12_N800> johnx, nope, sounds good though
Oct 23 18:26:21 <qwerty12_N800> *cracks knuckles* :p
Oct 23 18:26:38 <johnx> heh ... 226 microamps
Oct 23 18:45:52 * RST38h started getting spam in Polish
Oct 23 18:46:59 <MangoFusion> spam w języku polskim?
Oct 23 18:47:52 <johnx> RST38h, my spam folder looks like the email marketing version of the UN...
Oct 23 18:48:45 <zap_> My mom sometimes ask me "Andrew, I got a message telling I won $1000000000. Should I contact them?"
Oct 23 18:49:54 <MangoFusion> yes
Oct 23 18:50:13 <qwerty12_N800> Think  that's bad? :p . My dad installed some spyware and got links to blowjob,  free dvd, sex
Oct 23 18:50:40 <zap> whoa, now he got an occupation :P
Oct 23 18:51:35 <qwerty12_N800> lol, it didn't make those links after analyzing his browser habits :p
Oct 23 18:52:11 <johnx> my phone's email address was getting spammed so bad I had to basically stop receiving mail on it :/
Oct 23 18:54:56 <disco_stu> hey i made a cute discovery
Oct 23 18:55:29 <zap> Anybody uses NFS on Maemo? The portmap package seems missing...
Oct 23 18:56:55 <qwerty12_N800> zap, it's in the diablo sdk repo
Oct 23 18:57:09 <disco_stu> im using hildon keyboard with vnc
Oct 23 18:59:46 <Stskeeps> now they should do that for rdesktop
Oct 23 18:59:46 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 23 19:01:20 <disco_stu> im with rdesktop now
Oct 23 19:01:32 <disco_stu> but with xvkbd
Oct 23 19:02:26 <disco_stu> rdesktp-cli
Oct 23 19:22:23 <zap> qwerty12_N800: and where do I get the NFS kernel modules?
Oct 23 19:24:32 <qwerty12_N800> zap, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/k/kernel-diablo/kernel-diablo-modules-extra_2.6.21-200835maemo1_all.deb
Oct 23 19:25:23 * qwerty12_N800 is reminded to attempt cleaning more articles from the midgard
Oct 23 19:25:28 <qwerty12_N800> ^ wiki
Oct 23 19:30:34 <zap> aha
Oct 23 19:33:03 <zap> whoa cool.
Oct 23 19:33:49 <zap> damnit, I postponed my kernel-modules project for later, but it seems nothing have changed with latest release
Oct 23 19:36:04 <l7> hey, does anyone here know of a reliable source of SD card speed rankings?
Oct 23 19:36:20 <l7> i just recieved a card that writes at 2-3 MB/s
Oct 23 19:36:33 <l7> unless i'm mistaken, it's a POS
Oct 23 19:36:46 <zap> its a failure
Oct 23 19:37:13 <l7> yeah, it's a class 6 card, so it should write at at least 6 MB/s
Oct 23 19:37:31 <l7> reformatted the thing too, though i wonder if it might be my card reader
Oct 23 19:37:37 <l7> though it reader works fine with other cards
Oct 23 19:37:39 <zap> test it on nokia
Oct 23 19:37:54 <l7> yeah, i'm about to do that
Oct 23 19:38:08 <zap> time dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=/dev/null count=100 bs=1M
Oct 23 19:38:15 <l7> are both the internal and external n800 memory slots equally fast?
Oct 23 19:38:22 <ShadowJK_> zap, that tests read speed
Oct 23 19:38:36 <zap> yep
Oct 23 19:38:49 <zap> if you want to test write, do dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk0
Oct 23 19:38:53 <l7> it reads at about 15MB/s
Oct 23 19:38:55 <ShadowJK_> will erase card
Oct 23 19:38:56 <zap> but that will destroy the contents
Oct 23 19:39:12 <ShadowJK_> I want a card with low write amplification factor so that swap would be faster
Oct 23 19:39:39 <l7> booting the n800 now
Oct 23 19:39:57 <l7> ShadowJK_: yeah that's what i'm looking for too
Oct 23 19:41:06 <ShadowJK_> I don't think they make any cards like that though
Oct 23 19:41:32 <l7> what's the next best thing available now though?
Oct 23 19:41:36 <ShadowJK_> no idea
Oct 23 19:41:49 <l7> it seems like cards vary in write performance and also with large and small files
Oct 23 19:41:54 <ShadowJK_> Even with SSD there's basically only the new intel SSD that doesn't suck
Oct 23 19:41:58 <ShadowJK_> yes
Oct 23 19:42:16 <l7> for swap performance, i guess you'd want it to read and write small files quickly
Oct 23 19:42:29 <ShadowJK_> yes
Oct 23 19:43:33 <ShadowJK_> If you write just 4K, the card itself will have to erase and write 512k. Might be similar for reading too. The result is that when swapping, 4K chunks written pretty much randomly across the card, the write speed degrades to a few hundred kilobytes/sec, at best
Oct 23 19:46:09 <l7> hmm
Oct 23 19:47:15 <l7> looks like i have to reflash my device to recover my root password
Oct 23 19:47:29 <l7> it is possible to recover the root password without reflashing?
Oct 23 19:48:15 <qwerty12_N800> install rootsh from extras (easier) or enable rd mode
Oct 23 19:49:11 <l7> hrm, i'll give that a try in a sec
Oct 23 19:49:59 <l7> read speed from the nokia to the computer is rather slow, only 5MB/s
Oct 23 19:50:18 <qwerty12_N800> with rootsh, get a root shell (rootsh bypasses asking root password) because it's using sudo. after that, run passwd and change it or copy /etc/passwd to the computer and run something like john the ripper
Oct 23 19:50:44 <l7> john the ripper might take a long time :)
Oct 23 19:50:52 <qwerty12_N800> hehe
Oct 23 19:50:57 <l7> on my computer anyway
Oct 23 19:51:39 <l7> write performance from computer to n800's card is still 2mb/s
Oct 23 19:51:39 * qwerty12_N800 loves rainbow tables for local windows passwords
Oct 23 19:53:40 <l7> heh
Oct 23 19:59:52 <l7> funny, my other adata card writes at 9MB/s and reads at 10MB/s
Oct 23 20:00:44 <johnx> crappy adata card?
Oct 23 20:01:07 <johnx> I have two. one actually works...
Oct 23 20:02:27 <l7> yeah
Oct 23 20:02:37 <l7> one i bought from newegg a while back and it works fine
Oct 23 20:02:59 <l7> this 2mb/s one i got from supermediastore on sale for 30 bucks
Oct 23 20:03:17 <l7> i guess if the price is that low, it's suspicious
Oct 23 20:05:14 <nemo> qwerty12_N800: you can still do a rainbow table for windows?
Oct 23 20:05:20 <nemo> qwerty12_N800: thought they kicked the hashes up?
Oct 23 20:07:54 * Stskeeps watches glibc build locales
Oct 23 20:08:01 <Stskeeps> which ironically takes longer time than compiling
Oct 23 20:08:43 <qwerty12_N800> nemo, no idea about vista + server 2007 but i'm doing it with xp + server 2003 systems fine
Oct 23 20:09:03 <l7> hrm, no matter how i reformat this thing, it gets 2mb/s write and 4.5mb/s read from the n800
Oct 23 20:09:07 <nemo> qwerty12_N800: how big a rainbow table?
Oct 23 20:09:45 <qwerty12_N800> nemo, can't remember the specifics but around 1gb
Oct 23 20:09:51 <nemo> ok. that's just sad
Oct 23 20:10:24 <nemo> anything under a terabyte and you've got a portable rainbow these days. under a petabyte and you have something that can be provided as a web service.
Oct 23 20:11:38 <xorAxAx> is it possible to run apps compiled for chinook on diablo devices?
Oct 23 20:12:59 <lcuk> the basic application will work, but if it uses libraries which have changed then it wont
Oct 23 20:13:37 <lcuk> my application was compiled for a long time in chinook and i never heard from anyone it would not run in diablo
Oct 23 20:14:14 <xorAxAx> well, it uses a lot libs :)
Oct 23 20:14:27 <xorAxAx> but assuming that the package names didnt change ...
Oct 23 20:47:35 <Bilaw> Hello there!
Oct 23 21:02:30 <l7> hmm, i just noticed something about time
Oct 23 21:03:08 <l7> "time cp" is much faster than "time mv"
Oct 23 21:03:31 <l7> i guess mv goes back to verify the data or something
Oct 23 21:03:45 <johnx> well it also goes back to delete the other data
Oct 23 21:04:00 <johnx> but yes, I could be convinced it's somehow more careful
Oct 23 21:04:05 <l7> is there some kind of data verification in mv?
Oct 23 21:04:39 <johnx> maybe?
Oct 23 21:04:59 <l7> hmm
Oct 23 21:05:02 <l7> my disk activity graph goes straight up to 5MB/s and hits a plateau
Oct 23 21:05:05 <l7> with cp
Oct 23 21:06:54 <l7> with mv, it hits some 4MB/s spikes, but mostly lives around 700KB/s
Oct 23 21:06:57 <l7> interesting anyway
Oct 23 21:07:35 <l7> 24 seconds for mv compared to 3 seconds for cp
Oct 23 21:09:54 <johnx> interesting
Oct 23 21:10:07 <johnx> I always assumed they were basically the same thing for disk to disk transfers
Oct 23 21:10:22 <johnx> I guess that's why everyone just does cp && rm ...
Oct 23 21:10:41 <l7> yeah
Oct 23 21:10:59 <l7> i wonder if there's any advantages to using mv's verification feature if that is what it is doing
Oct 23 21:11:17 <l7> maybe there's better ways to verify though
Oct 23 21:11:58 <Stskeeps> mv inside same fs or other?
Oct 23 21:12:13 <Bilaw> I found the wiki.maemo pages on updating my firmware (I use Ubuntu), but I get an error message: "./flasher-3.0" not found. Can anyone help?
Oct 23 21:12:13 <l7> from HFS+ to FAT32
Oct 23 21:12:39 <Stskeeps> Bilaw: did you download flasher-3.0 from tablets-dev.nokia.com?
Oct 23 21:12:44 <Stskeeps> or -static
Oct 23 21:13:10 <Bilaw> (silly me!) Er... in a matter of minutes... Where should I shove it, once downloaded?
Oct 23 21:13:25 <Stskeeps> doesn't matter, anywhere but a fat32 file system
Oct 23 21:13:26 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 23 21:13:33 <Stskeeps> or a place with noexec
Oct 23 21:14:11 <l7> hmm, maybe macs aren't the best platforms to test read / write speeds with this Spotlight's annoying indexing
Oct 23 21:19:56 <Bilaw> Er... My terminal says: sudo: ./flasher-3.0.amd64: command not found...
Oct 23 21:20:17 <Bilaw> (I was in the Desktop directory)
Oct 23 21:20:48 <johnx> you need to be in the same directory you put that file in
Oct 23 21:21:33 <Bilaw> I cd'ed ~/Bureau...
Oct 23 21:22:40 <johnx> ok, so you downloaded flasher-3.0.amd64, you put it in ~/Bureau, then you cd'ed to Bureau?
Oct 23 21:23:14 <Fatal> Bilaw: chmod +x flasher-3.0.amd64
Oct 23 21:23:31 <Bilaw> yes, johnx
Oct 23 21:23:35 <Bilaw> OK, Fatal
Oct 23 21:24:40 <Bilaw> (... Suitable USB device found, waiting...). Thank you, gentlemen!
Oct 23 21:26:34 <Bilaw> (Still waiting... Should I worry now, or postpone worrying?)
Oct 23 21:30:50 <mgedmin> still waiting?
Oct 23 21:31:08 <Bilaw> Yes mgedmin...
Oct 23 21:31:16 <Bilaw> I s'ppose that is not good?
Oct 23 21:31:17 <mgedmin> how did you run flasher?
Oct 23 21:31:34 <Bilaw> the N810 does not seem to be doing anything, either...
Oct 23 21:31:35 <mgedmin> I mean, what was the exact command line?
Oct 23 21:31:58 <Bilaw> sudo ./flasher-3.0.amd64 -F RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R
Oct 23 21:32:08 <mgedmin> hmm
Oct 23 21:32:26 <mgedmin> oh, are you sure you quoted the message correctly?
Oct 23 21:32:35 <mgedmin> perhaps it was "Suitable USB device *not* found, waiting..."?
Oct 23 21:32:37 <Bilaw> (it did launch a whole bucnh of "images"... but the last message asked me to wait, and here we are, about 4 mn later!
Oct 23 21:32:53 <l7> hmm, anyone know why there seems to be so little activity on the internettablet wiki?
Oct 23 21:32:55 <Bilaw> Holly mackerel, youre right!
Oct 23 21:32:55 <mgedmin> was there a green progress bar on the screen of your n810?
Oct 23 21:33:20 <Bilaw> OK. Back from scratch, mgedmin: it *does* say USB NOT found.
Oct 23 21:33:25 <mgedmin> ahh ok
Oct 23 21:33:26 <mgedmin> that's good
Oct 23 21:33:33 <mgedmin> the next step is to turn on the n810
Oct 23 21:33:38 <qwerty12_N800> l7, it's all about wiki.maemo.org :p
Oct 23 21:33:42 <Bilaw> (I swear I am not usually this dense...)
Oct 23 21:33:46 <mgedmin> if it is already on, turn it off, unplug from charger, plug in usb cable, turn it on
Oct 23 21:33:51 <mgedmin> then the flasher will notice it as it boots up
Oct 23 21:34:18 <l7> qwerty12_N800: ah, well as long as there's one active wiki, i am happy
Oct 23 21:34:24 <johnx> qwerty12_N800, which is down right now :/
Oct 23 21:34:27 <Bilaw> (don't talk, people, I need to copy and paste what mgedmin juste said!)
Oct 23 21:34:59 <l7> johnx: ouch, so i see
Oct 23 21:35:01 <qwerty12_N800> johnx, maemo.org servers suck balls, what can i say :/
Oct 23 21:35:37 <l7> bleh, is it possible to export to the wiki to some other hosting site?
Oct 23 21:35:52 <l7> assuming all the contributions are CC licensed or whatever
Oct 23 21:36:31 <l7> though it was moinmoin wiki from what i recall, and i don't remember too many free moinmoin hosts
Oct 23 21:37:10 <Bilaw> ... Finishing Flashing... done
Oct 23 21:37:25 <Bilaw> It looks like it is all correct, mgedmin!
Oct 23 21:37:33 <l7> man, archive.org didn't index the maemo wiki much
Oct 23 21:38:32 <Bilaw> Well, many thanks, johnx, Fatal, and mgedmin!
Oct 23 21:38:46 <johnx> sure :)
Oct 23 21:39:54 <Bilaw> Now, another question: is it as complicated to install applications from my PC, given that I have no wifi connection available?
Oct 23 21:41:01 <l7> hmm, it's a bit less than ideal i think
Oct 23 21:41:36 <Stskeeps> Bilaw: look into usbnet..
Oct 23 21:43:24 <mgedmin> or transfer them to the memory card one-by-one
Oct 23 21:43:32 <mgedmin> doing painful manual dependency tracking
Oct 23 21:43:37 <mgedmin> tedious and painful
Oct 23 21:43:47 <mgedmin> and boring
Oct 23 21:43:51 <lcuk> how many people sit here with their n800 in front of them along with a desktop machine?
Oct 23 21:44:15 <mgedmin> do laptops count?
Oct 23 21:44:19 * johnx raises his hand
Oct 23 21:44:21 <lcuk> yes certainly
Oct 23 21:44:30 <Stskeeps> lcuk: on the side, though a laptop
Oct 23 21:44:33 <Bilaw> hm... hours and hours of forthcoming fun, as we say here, Stskeeps
Oct 23 21:44:35 <mgedmin> everyone who is flashing a new os image?
Oct 23 21:44:37 <Khertan_n810> and if i m not sit count ?
Oct 23 21:44:57 <Stskeeps> Bilaw: it's kinda simple under ubuntu.. it's on the very slow wiki on how to do it :P
Oct 23 21:45:00 <lcuk> can you do the inverse of bluemaemo - and use your laptop keyboard with maemo - simply without the whole vnc thing - just make your laptop app ear as a keyboard for n800
Oct 23 21:45:10 <mgedmin> it's called ssh
Oct 23 21:45:17 <lcuk> not quite the same
Oct 23 21:45:18 <mgedmin> not really...
Oct 23 21:45:21 <lcuk> im thinking within gui apps
Oct 23 21:45:30 <Stskeeps> lcuk: synergy
Oct 23 21:45:33 <mgedmin> I was looking for a vnc server running on maemo once
Oct 23 21:45:37 <Bilaw> I'm lost, Stskeeps: whats the very slow wiki?
Oct 23 21:45:43 <Stskeeps> Bilaw: wiki.maemo.org
Oct 23 21:45:49 <qwerty12_N800> mgedmin, x11vnc?
Oct 23 21:45:52 <Bilaw> I'll go look it up
Oct 23 21:45:58 <lcuk> Stskeeps, ive heard about that, but only seen it using mouse
Oct 23 21:46:07 <mgedmin> qwerty12_N800: is it in extras?
Oct 23 21:46:34 <Fatal> lcuk: synergy worked fine for me with both mouse and keyboard
Oct 23 21:46:45 <mgedmin> lcuk: synergy (or the equivalent x2x, x2vnc and mango-lassi) is nice
Oct 23 21:46:55 <mgedmin> it redirects your keystrokes to the machine where your shared cursor is at the moment
Oct 23 21:47:06 <lcuk> well then one step further, can bluemaemo work from tablet to tablet? ( i assume it could?)
Oct 23 21:47:14 <Stskeeps> http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=236140&postcount=26 <- kinda scary long post
Oct 23 21:47:30 <qwerty12_N800> mgedmin, no :(. i actually built the latest version from cvs but never got round to debianising it. right now a dodgy deb lies somewhere in my /scratchbox...
Oct 23 21:47:45 <lcuk> just based on this: http://liqbase.net/double_tiny.JPG
Oct 23 21:48:55 <Stskeeps> what is it qole uses in easy debian again? xephyr?
Oct 23 21:49:03 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, two cents? more like $20 :p
Oct 23 21:50:05 <Stskeeps> i just kinda wonder if "normal apps" in xephyr could help the issue of non-hildon apps
Oct 23 21:50:08 <Stskeeps> i mean
Oct 23 21:50:37 <Stskeeps> if it's possible to make xephyr do scrolling, maybe in a kinetic fashion, that'd be excellent for integrating non-hildon apps into hildon
Oct 23 21:51:01 <Stskeeps> that'd give you access to normal apps without issues
Oct 23 21:51:39 <Stskeeps> or maybe it changes resolution dynamically
Oct 23 21:51:39 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 23 21:51:43 <Stskeeps> .. am i ranting or is this a good idea?
Oct 23 21:51:50 <johnx> Stskeeps, that is a pretty impressive wishlist. I think I wrote one for santa like that when I was a kid...
Oct 23 21:52:03 <Stskeeps> yeah
Oct 23 21:52:12 <Stskeeps> i think he just summarized iTT through the last year
Oct 23 21:52:15 <l7> qwerty12_N800: thanks, rootsh worked like a charm :)
Oct 23 21:52:28 <qwerty12_N800> l7, no problems :D
Oct 23 21:52:33 <l7> i'm a bit surprised the n800 only supports 8 character passwords though
Oct 23 21:52:40 <Stskeeps> saves memory
Oct 23 21:52:41 <Stskeeps> !
Oct 23 21:52:42 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 23 21:52:44 <l7> heh
Oct 23 21:52:51 <l7> is there any way to improve that?
Oct 23 21:52:59 <l7> i guess it's not like i'm using it for a webserver
Oct 23 21:53:18 <l7> though it would make a cool server
Oct 23 21:55:31 <johnx> wait, which password?
Oct 23 21:55:52 <l7> the root password
Oct 23 21:55:58 <Stskeeps> no comment from anyone about my embed a non-hildon app in hildon by embedding it in a hildon window and using kinetic scrolling to scroll to the invisible parts? :P
Oct 23 21:56:11 <johnx> I just set it to a 10 char password...
Oct 23 21:56:27 <l7> does it work if you only type 8?
Oct 23 21:56:33 <lcuk> Stskeeps, all i can think of is liqbase, but that involves writing your own software from scratch :)
Oct 23 21:56:35 <johnx> l7, let me check
Oct 23 21:56:39 <qwerty12_N800> johnx likes living dangerously
Oct 23 21:56:50 <l7> Enter the new password (minimum of 5, maximum of 8 characters)
Oct 23 21:56:51 <l7> heh
Oct 23 21:56:53 <Stskeeps> lcuk: liqwm
Oct 23 21:57:01 <Stskeeps> that'd really be excellent though
Oct 23 21:57:07 <johnx> Stskeeps, seems like it would use lots of resources and present some real challenges to deal with click+drag in apps
Oct 23 21:57:12 <Stskeeps> johnx: true
Oct 23 21:57:27 * Stskeeps puts it in his idea bag for hibernation
Oct 23 21:57:50 <johnx> l7, nope. won't let me in with the first 8
Oct 23 21:57:50 <Stskeeps> now why on bloody earth does dpkg-buildpackage of glibc test all iconv charsets?
Oct 23 21:57:57 <johnx> where did you see the "less than 8 bit"?
Oct 23 21:58:08 <l7> login as root and type passwd
Oct 23 21:58:08 <Bilaw> having read a little of the USB networking, my answer is: not now, Stskeeps!
Oct 23 21:58:15 <Stskeeps> pft.
Oct 23 21:58:18 <Bilaw> But I'll sure keep this in mind!
Oct 23 21:58:18 <johnx> l7, I just did ...
Oct 23 21:58:27 <l7> what did it say?
Oct 23 21:58:42 <johnx> l7, just enter new UNIX password:
Oct 23 21:58:48 <l7> weird...
Oct 23 21:58:48 * lcuk puts it in his idea bag as well :)
Oct 23 21:58:52 <l7> that's it?
Oct 23 21:58:57 <l7> i got:
Oct 23 21:58:57 <l7> Changing password for user
Oct 23 21:58:57 <l7> Enter the new password (minimum of 5, maximum of 8 characters)
Oct 23 21:58:57 <l7> Please use a combination of upper and lower case letters and numbers.
Oct 23 21:59:14 <l7> looks the same for root
Oct 23 21:59:30 <johnx> l7, I just remembered. the n800 is booted into debian :)
Oct 23 21:59:30 <l7> i'm pretty sure i'm patched to the most recent version too
Oct 23 21:59:34 <l7> aaah :)
Oct 23 21:59:44 * johnx should get some sleep
Oct 23 21:59:50 <l7> heh
Oct 23 21:59:54 <johnx> that's what I get for long running ssh sessions with the screen off
Oct 23 21:59:54 <macoute> heh
Oct 23 21:59:59 <Stskeeps> johnx: one thing im wondering about is if you can apply a trick you can do on normal xorg.. the thing with cursor in the edge moving to the bigger virtual screen
Oct 23 22:00:05 <l7> how's debian running on your n800?
Oct 23 22:00:09 <Stskeeps> if that's possible with the newer omapfb driver
Oct 23 22:00:45 <johnx> Stskeeps, yeah, but I think all the "scrollable" area resides on the framebuffer, unless I'm confused
Oct 23 22:00:53 <johnx> (very possibly confused)
Oct 23 22:00:55 <Stskeeps> glibc.. "Testing <something>." "This might take a while
Oct 23 22:00:58 <l7> i think i will give installing kde 4 a shot later
Oct 23 22:01:02 <Stskeeps> no shit glibc
Oct 23 22:04:19 <l7> hmm
Oct 23 22:04:31 <l7> setting a blank password doesn't work on the n800
Oct 23 22:04:39 <l7> it lets you set it, but you can't login
Oct 23 22:04:50 <l7> though you can change your password again with passwd
Oct 23 22:04:52 <johnx> with openssh?
Oct 23 22:04:57 <l7> yeah
Oct 23 22:05:04 <johnx> that's an openssh thing
Oct 23 22:05:11 <johnx> dropbear lets you use a blank password
Oct 23 22:05:19 <johnx> maybe there's an option to enable it somewhere with openssh
Oct 23 22:05:24 <l7> oh
Oct 23 22:05:27 <johnx> I just use pubkey enc
Oct 23 22:05:39 <l7> i guess it must be a security feature
Oct 23 22:05:53 <l7> yeah, pubkey sounds like an easier way to go
Oct 23 22:06:04 <nemo> and safer
Oct 23 22:06:23 <l7> yeah, i was just testing to see what the OS would let me do
Oct 23 22:08:04 <nemo> if you're going to use a blank pass, you might as well just use ssh null encryption too :)
Oct 23 22:08:08 <nemo> save cycles.
Oct 23 22:08:14 <l7> heh
Oct 23 22:08:36 <l7> is null encryption the same as sending plaintext?
Oct 23 22:09:00 <macoute> it seems so? :)
Oct 23 22:09:51 <macoute> nemo: blank password with pubkey is kinda secure, more secure than using password-authentication only
Oct 23 22:10:55 <nemo> macoute: pubkey is entirely different
Oct 23 22:11:06 <nemo> macoute: looked like he was trying to go no pass, no pubkey
Oct 23 22:11:49 <nemo> macoute: only time I've ever used that is when I needed to debug an app using SSL
Oct 23 22:12:07 <nemo> (null cipher)
Oct 23 22:12:37 <macoute> nemo: ah, no pass, no pubkey is not that secure :)
Oct 23 22:13:17 <l7> ah, having bash on the n800 is much nicer
Oct 23 22:13:41 <l7> must send props to whoever packaged it
Oct 23 22:13:51 <lcuk> this guy thats making the extension case thing for n810s for extra memory.   has anyone considered asking him if its feasible to fit a camera in there?
Oct 23 22:15:28 * lcuk really needs a front facing camera cos he wants to try somefink
Oct 23 22:18:56 <l7> hmm, will replacing /home/user/ with a symlink to one of my mmc cards cause any problems?
Oct 23 22:19:48 <gregorovius> l7: only when a ssu comes out
Oct 23 22:19:52 <l7> ssu?
Oct 23 22:19:57 <gregorovius> ~ssu
Oct 23 22:19:58 <infobot> methinks ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU
Oct 23 22:20:47 <gregorovius> the name nokia gave to a dist-upgrade
Oct 23 22:21:03 <l7> ah
Oct 23 22:21:14 <l7> updating without reflashing
Oct 23 22:21:28 <mgedmin> what's the full name?
Oct 23 22:21:31 <johnx> when do cards get mounted in the boot process?
Oct 23 22:21:37 <mgedmin> s??? software update?
Oct 23 22:21:44 <gregorovius> seamless
Oct 23 22:21:55 <l7> which files will the SSU try to access that will cause problems with my symlinked /home/user/?
Oct 23 22:22:39 <l7> maybe i can just symlink off ~/apps and ~/MyDocs
Oct 23 22:22:41 <qwerty12_N800> johnx, ke-recv starts at S30
Oct 23 22:22:59 <gregorovius> .MyDocs did cause trouble last update
Oct 23 22:23:10 <gregorovius> PDFs and a moby mp3 go in there
Oct 23 22:23:24 <l7> oh
Oct 23 22:23:38 <gregorovius> but the devs agreed that was a bug and should be sorted out by next ssu
Oct 23 22:23:46 <l7> hrm
Oct 23 22:23:52 <l7> hopefully it won't be a problem then
Oct 23 22:24:00 <gregorovius> you can symlink everything, just remember not to update before reading some opinions
Oct 23 22:24:09 <l7> hmm
Oct 23 22:24:21 <l7> i guess i can always unsymlink and update if needed
Oct 23 22:24:39 <gregorovius> that's my point
Oct 23 22:24:45 <l7> do a lot of people symlink some or all of their home directory then?
Oct 23 22:25:26 <gregorovius> the problem if you do that is that when some app is accessing ~, you can't unmount the memory card you symlinked it to
Oct 23 22:26:02 <gregorovius> I did it, but then having to reboot just to plug it in via usb was a bother
Oct 23 22:26:29 <l7> hmm
Oct 23 22:27:01 <gregorovius> at least that was my experience, not sure if it happens to everybody or if it's something in my configuration
Oct 23 22:27:25 <l7> sounds like the less you symlink off, less likely you are to have problems
Oct 23 22:28:14 <l7> symlinking home directory with all it's preferences seems like it invites more problems
Oct 23 22:28:22 <l7> time to test it out a bit...
Oct 23 22:28:25 <gregorovius> =)
Oct 23 22:28:29 <gregorovius> gotta run
Oct 23 22:28:49 <l7> heh, later
Oct 23 22:29:10 <l7> i have to say, the way nokia laid out the home directory with /apps and /MyDocs is much neater
Oct 23 22:29:17 <l7> compared to how Ubuntu does it
Oct 23 22:29:54 <l7> no need to mix up all your media files with all the hidden preference directories
Oct 23 22:31:31 <l7> hmm, does clearing out the n800's built in flash improve performance any?
Oct 23 22:31:48 <johnx> only if it's really close to full I would imagine
Oct 23 22:31:54 <johnx> say 95% or more
Oct 23 22:32:05 <l7> oh
Oct 23 22:32:14 <l7> is it used for swap as well?
Oct 23 22:32:35 <l7> i was hoping to reduce wear on the internal flash if possible
Oct 23 22:32:57 <johnx> well, in the case that an fs is >95% write performance can fall
Oct 23 22:33:02 <johnx> but no, it's not used for swap
Oct 23 22:33:10 <johnx> you can swap to an SD card if you want though
Oct 23 22:33:50 <l7> yeah, i have my fastest SD card doing that :)
Oct 23 22:34:00 <l7> just a cheap adata however
Oct 23 22:39:06 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/23/arm-cortex-based-netbooks-said-to-be-coming-soon/
Oct 23 22:39:10 <GeneralAntilles> That I can go for.
Oct 23 22:39:29 <johnx> I expect some really, really creative designs
Oct 23 22:39:46 <GeneralAntilles> How big are the batteries on most netbooks, anyway?
Oct 23 22:40:22 <johnx> 4400mAh?
Oct 23 22:40:41 <johnx> actually, I have no clue
Oct 23 22:40:54 <l7> hmm, which netbook offers the most bang for the buck these days?
Oct 23 22:41:24 <l7> the eeepc seems to have a dev community working on a version of ubuntu for it
Oct 23 22:41:29 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, seems to be 4400 at the low end
Oct 23 22:41:42 <GeneralAntilles> Google says in the 4400-5800 range
Oct 23 22:41:55 <l7> though the new msi wind looks like too and can run os x for fun
Oct 23 22:41:55 <johnx> l7, I like the look of the hp mini
Oct 23 22:42:06 <l7> johnx: what do you like about it?
Oct 23 22:42:11 <johnx> the keyboard
Oct 23 22:42:21 <l7> hmm, yeah a good keyboard is crucial
Oct 23 22:42:21 <johnx> I've had a chance to type on most and it has the nicest keyboard
Oct 23 22:42:34 <GeneralAntilles> So, what, something like 10-18 hour active battery life with an OMAP3440?
Oct 23 22:42:36 <l7> how does it fare as far as running ubuntu or os x?
Oct 23 22:42:49 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, or a new psion?
Oct 23 22:43:36 <l7> wow, the hp mini has an aluminum case
Oct 23 22:43:42 * GeneralAntilles was a Newton person.
Oct 23 22:44:37 <l7> heh, i considered getting a newton
Oct 23 22:44:56 <l7> even when the mp 2001s were 300, i couldn't quite bring myself to get one
Oct 23 22:45:40 <GeneralAntilles> They just a bit too outdated these days.
Oct 23 22:45:48 <GeneralAntilles> s/They/They're/
Oct 23 22:45:49 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: They're just a bit too outdated these days.
Oct 23 22:45:49 <l7> too bad the HP mini runs on a Via processor
Oct 23 22:47:52 <johnx> meh, what are you planning to do on it, game?
Oct 23 22:51:17 <l7> actually, i just want to be able to run ubuntu on it
Oct 23 22:51:29 <l7> though os x would be nice too as a toy
Oct 23 22:52:04 <ShadowJK_> Some of the eee pc's have 6-cell batteries
Oct 23 22:52:25 <johnx> there's a 9 cell for the wind
Oct 23 22:52:31 <johnx> some DIY IIRC
Oct 23 23:00:59 <l7> bleh, it seems like you can't get the Wind without Windows
Oct 23 23:01:07 <l7> it's aptly named
Oct 23 23:01:42 <johnx> windows pays for itself with spyware. throw both away and call it even :)
Oct 23 23:03:47 <GeneralAntilles> http://eeepc.net/extended-batteries-for-your-asus-eee-pc/
Oct 23 23:03:51 <GeneralAntilles> That's quite a battery
Oct 23 23:04:56 <johnx> don't post that on ITT. There's probably about 5 users who will ask why Nokia didn't use it on the n8x0...
Oct 23 23:05:04 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Oct 23 23:05:07 <l7> heh
Oct 23 23:05:43 <l7> are there any good mapping apps that you could run on a netbook?
Oct 23 23:05:58 <johnx> in linux or windows?
Oct 23 23:06:15 <johnx> windows probably has better commercial map software...
Oct 23 23:06:26 <l7> linux preferably, but windows if comes to that :)
Oct 23 23:06:54 <johnx> on linux: gpsdrive, maemo mapperu, navit and ... hmm...something else I don't remember come to mind
Oct 23 23:07:24 <l7> hmm, that's not bad
Oct 23 23:07:43 <johnx> the problem being lack of offline routing
Oct 23 23:08:05 <l7> couldn't you link the netbook to a bluetooth gps?
Oct 23 23:08:19 <johnx> sure, but that doesn't get you routing
Oct 23 23:08:39 <l7> hrm, for driving?
Oct 23 23:09:09 <l7> i was planning more on using it as a navigation tool while on foot
Oct 23 23:09:22 <johnx> and so you just want to see a map?
Oct 23 23:09:30 <johnx> maemo mapper will work fine for that
Oct 23 23:09:33 <l7> a map and directions
Oct 23 23:09:42 <johnx> directions = routing :)
Oct 23 23:09:48 <l7> hrm
Oct 23 23:09:57 <johnx> or do you mean compass directions?
Oct 23 23:10:06 <l7> hrm, maybe the wimax eeepc could solve that problem
Oct 23 23:10:26 <johnx> or some commercial windows software that has offline routing
Oct 23 23:10:47 <l7> well for walking around the city, just being able to see where i am on the map and my destination point would be fine
Oct 23 23:10:58 <johnx> yeah, same here
Oct 23 23:11:12 <johnx> ...or navit should do routing if openstreetmap has really good maps for your area
Oct 23 23:11:22 <l7> hrm, what exactly do you mean by offline routing?
Oct 23 23:11:51 <johnx> without an inet connection having the app give you turn-by-turn directions to get someplace
Oct 23 23:12:38 <GeneralAntilles> The N810W is supposedly shipping, but has anybody actually received a production unit?
Oct 23 23:12:53 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, some guy on ITT, right? or is he Nokia?
Oct 23 23:13:00 <GeneralAntilles> Dunno
Oct 23 23:13:10 <johnx> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24501
Oct 23 23:13:37 <GeneralAntilles> I don't know if he has an actually production unit.
Oct 23 23:13:49 <l7> hmm, does the app need to talk to a server that sends it turn by turn directions?
Oct 23 23:14:13 <johnx> l7, not if it has a vector map that includes routing metadata
Oct 23 23:14:15 <l7> i thought it could just figure out how to get to your destination based on your GPS coordinates and the map
Oct 23 23:14:19 <l7> ah
Oct 23 23:14:47 <l7> so it needs to understand how the streets are laid out
Oct 23 23:15:03 <johnx> so maemo mapper just uses jpgs/pngs downloaded from google/yahoo maps which of course don't have any routing info embedded
Oct 23 23:15:06 <johnx> they're just pictures
Oct 23 23:15:36 <johnx> and the maps that include routing info are largely non-free
Oct 23 23:15:55 <johnx> tiger maps of the US kind of work and are free enough
Oct 23 23:15:59 <l7> except for openstreet?
Oct 23 23:16:09 <johnx> right, but it's far from complete
Oct 23 23:16:18 <johnx> some areas are pretty great, some are completely blank
Oct 23 23:16:42 <l7> hrm, how is coverage in europe or canada?
Oct 23 23:16:54 <johnx> i dunno, check their website :P
Oct 23 23:17:27 <johnx> http://openstreetmap.org
Oct 23 23:19:06 <l7> k
Oct 23 23:19:24 <l7> ah, finally got around to symlinking mydocs
Oct 23 23:20:09 <GeneralAntilles> Better to:
Oct 23 23:20:11 <GeneralAntilles> ~boot-sd
Oct 23 23:20:12 <infobot> rumour has it, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card
Oct 23 23:21:44 <l7> hmm, what do you mean?
Oct 23 23:22:04 <johnx> "just boot from sd"
Oct 23 23:22:05 <l7> booting from a flash card is better than symlinking?
Oct 23 23:22:25 <l7> oh i see, then my entire filesystem will live on that sd card?
Oct 23 23:22:31 <johnx> well if you're going to keep the card mounted anyways, might as well keep things simple
Oct 23 23:22:50 <l7> yeah, that's true
Oct 23 23:24:01 <johnx> anyways, off to bed for me
Oct 23 23:24:03 <johnx> 'night all
Oct 23 23:24:07 <l7> 'nite
Oct 23 23:24:13 <l7> any idea what is an ideal speed flash card to use for booting?
Oct 23 23:24:27 <johnx> class 6 of course
Oct 23 23:24:35 * johnx really sleeps
Oct 23 23:24:38 <mgedmin> the faster the better, no?
Oct 23 23:25:16 <l7> yeah, what is the best bang for the buck in terms of class 6 cards though? :)
Oct 23 23:25:29 <l7> there's also that x150 x200 spec, which is confusing
Oct 23 23:25:41 <GeneralAntilles> That's for SD cards
Oct 23 23:25:51 <GeneralAntilles> Most everybody is pretty much equal
Oct 23 23:25:54 <GeneralAntilles> Except SanDisk
Oct 23 23:26:01 <GeneralAntilles> Which is better, but you pay for the quality.
Oct 23 23:26:15 <l7> how much faster is sandisk?
Oct 23 23:26:40 <l7> perhaps a small 1 2 or 4 gig sandisk would be worth it for booting
Oct 23 23:26:47 <l7> if there was a noticable increase
Oct 23 23:27:00 <l7> they have a bunch of different lines though
Oct 23 23:27:57 <ShadowJK_> sandisk has slow cards too..
Oct 23 23:30:43 <GeneralAntilles> ShadowJK_, well, duuuh.
Oct 23 23:30:51 <GeneralAntilles> But you'll know it by the price.
Oct 23 23:31:08 <GeneralAntilles> l7, not worth the cost.
Oct 23 23:31:16 <GeneralAntilles> The tablets generally wont push them to their limits.
Oct 23 23:33:11 <l7> hmm
Oct 23 23:33:25 <l7> GeneralAntilles: what's the best option then?
Oct 23 23:33:35 <l7> a good off-brand SD card?
Oct 23 23:33:45 <GeneralAntilles> There isn't really a "best"
Oct 23 23:34:24 <GeneralAntilles> Transcend, A-Data, Patriot, PNY, and Kingston are all in there.
Oct 23 23:34:30 <GeneralAntilles> They're mostly all the same
Oct 23 23:34:41 <GeneralAntilles> some people will report more problems with one brand or the other
Oct 23 23:34:46 <l7> hrm
Oct 23 23:34:58 <GeneralAntilles> Personally, I've been fine with Transcend
Oct 23 23:35:10 <l7> adata seems to be priced the lowest at newegg, so i wonder if they're worse
Oct 23 23:35:26 <l7> yeah, i remember that transcend comparison page a while back
Oct 23 23:47:36 <ShadowJK_> [782655.531250] omapfb omapfb: s1d1374x: line buffer not ready
Oct 23 23:47:38 <ShadowJK_> well, this is new
Oct 23 23:48:35 <l7> new bug?
Oct 23 23:49:58 <ShadowJK_> no idea
Oct 23 23:50:05 <ShadowJK_> screen went black but backlight is on
Oct 23 23:50:14 <ShadowJK_> ssh'd in and typed dmesg, and it was full of that
Oct 23 23:50:21 <l7> hrm
Oct 23 23:50:47 <l7> were you trying to shut down?
Oct 23 23:51:00 <ShadowJK_> nope
Oct 23 23:52:35 <l7> strange
Oct 23 23:53:14 <ShadowJK_> yah
Oct 23 23:54:12 <ShadowJK_> so I switched it off with shutdown -r over ssh
Oct 23 23:54:28 <ShadowJK_> it didn't come back, the blue led in the corner was fading on and off very slowly
Oct 23 23:54:43 <ShadowJK_> and the screen had grey vertical stripes without backlight
Oct 23 23:54:56 <ShadowJK_> I remove battery, and the grey vertical stripes remained for considerable amount of time
Oct 23 23:55:08 <ShadowJK_> put in battery again and it works, yay \o/
Oct 23 23:55:16 <ShadowJK_> don't die on me before N900 comes out!
Oct 23 23:58:30 <l7> heh
Oct 23 23:58:47 <l7> hmm, how do i reset maemomapper's settings?
Oct 23 23:59:01 <l7> i deleted ~/.maemomapper but the settings seem to persist
Oct 24 00:13:36 <mgedmin> doesn't it use gconf?
Oct 24 00:14:55 <l7> hmm
Oct 24 00:15:38 <l7> hmm, there's no ~/.gconf directory
Oct 24 00:15:56 <l7> there's ~/.gnome2, but it's empty
Oct 24 00:17:09 <l7> hrm, i don't really like using backup and restore
Oct 24 00:17:25 <l7> it seems to copy over a lot of obsolete settings
Oct 24 00:18:12 <l7> seperating the useful system bits like wireless authentication from the useless bits like saved games would be nice
Oct 24 00:20:26 <l7> is there an easier way to enter podcasts into canola?
Oct 24 00:20:45 <l7> i'm considering editing it's configuration file directly, though that seems messy
Oct 24 00:23:17 <l7> hmm, it's a sqlite db
Oct 24 00:32:06 <l7> copy and paste for feedburner urls doesn't seem to work well
Oct 24 00:34:48 <l7> hrm... i guess copy-paste works
Oct 24 00:34:56 <l7> though it rather sucks
Oct 24 00:43:56 <bef0rd> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/23/arm-cortex-based-netbooks-said-to-be-coming-soon/
Oct 24 00:45:25 <GeneralAntilles> bef0rd, scrollback. :P
Oct 24 00:45:32 <GeneralAntilles> The comments there make me laugh.
Oct 24 00:45:39 <bef0rd> oh
Oct 24 00:45:43 <bef0rd> sorry hehe
Oct 24 00:46:22 <GeneralAntilles> I'd be all over a netbook with an OMAP3440
Oct 24 00:47:04 <GeneralAntilles> Slap a 5800mAh battery in there and it'll get 12 hours active easy.
Oct 24 00:47:40 <bef0rd> yeah, Intel was blaiming the ARM processor on the iphone for the 'low performance', hah
Oct 24 00:47:53 <bef0rd> I've seen some awesome stuff with beagleboards
Oct 24 00:48:02 <GeneralAntilles> Cortex is 2-3x faster than ARM11
Oct 24 00:49:55 <ds3> build one
Oct 24 00:50:08 <ds3> gumstix board as CPU, N810 LCD
Oct 24 00:50:17 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Oct 24 00:50:23 <GeneralAntilles> Don't have the time or money.
Oct 24 00:50:30 <ds3> maybe N800 case
Oct 24 00:50:58 <GeneralAntilles> The overo's got big ports on it.
Oct 24 00:51:21 <ds3> that's the carrier board, AFAIK
Oct 24 01:01:09 <ShadowJK_> Intel's argument that you need an intel processor for "the full web" is kinda flawed... There are websites that don't even work properly on Q6600, full web is impossible goal ;)
Oct 24 01:08:12 <GeneralAntilles> "Full web" means such radically different things to different people that it's hardly a metric worth discussing.
Oct 24 01:09:44 <ShadowJK_> indeed
Oct 24 01:10:09 <ShadowJK_> personally I'd want more ram so I could click more than a few links with my "one tab/window per link" browsing style before things grind to a halt :)
Oct 24 01:10:24 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Oct 24 01:10:30 <GeneralAntilles> I'm such a tab whore.
Oct 24 01:11:37 <ShadowJK_> And this really starts from that I hate waiting for pages to load, so I click a bunch of links so that they load in the background so that I don't have to wait all the time, which is what happens if you do the follow link, back, follow another link, back style...
Oct 24 01:14:54 <GeneralAntilles> I go back to XChat waiting for pages to load
Oct 24 01:15:08 <GeneralAntilles> which doesn't work either, as MicroB's an attention whore and tops itself a hundred thousand times.
Oct 24 01:17:03 <ShadowJK_> yes
Oct 24 01:17:11 <ShadowJK_> firefox does it too to some extent
Oct 24 01:17:32 <ShadowJK_> Mostly only when it decides to freeze and you've clicked some UI component, it wants to pop back up again once it decides to respond
Oct 24 01:17:38 <ShadowJK_> But microb does this even worse :)
Oct 24 01:20:07 <GeneralAntilles> Particularly inexcusable with Matchbox.
Oct 24 01:20:53 <disco_stu> hi
Oct 24 01:22:09 <GeneralAntilles> Howdy
Oct 24 01:22:22 <disco_stu> ini
Oct 24 01:25:33 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles:
Oct 24 01:33:08 <bef0rd> hey disco_stu
Oct 24 01:33:20 <disco_stu> bef0rd: suppp man
Oct 24 01:35:36 <disco_stu> someone here with experience with dosbox & maemo
Oct 24 01:35:37 <disco_stu> ?
Oct 24 01:37:21 <bef0rd> I installed it once
Oct 24 01:37:30 <bef0rd> is that enough? :P
Oct 24 01:37:38 <bef0rd> I believe I used pupnik's packge
Oct 24 01:37:41 <bef0rd> package*
Oct 24 02:04:22 <ShadowJK_> Can anyone think of any other situation where microb should steal focus, than when you've clicked a link in another app that launches microb?
Oct 24 02:04:42 <GeneralAntilles> Nope
Oct 24 02:05:00 <GeneralAntilles> Honestly, I'd rather applications not even pull focus when you open them.
Oct 24 02:05:27 <ShadowJK_> I think that'd be hard to sneak past nokia people
Oct 24 02:06:34 <ShadowJK_> tap-hold a link, "Open Link in New window", microb steals focus, user switches back to original window, microb steals focus, user switches back to original window, microb has now maybe finished the page or atleast rendered it the first time, and steals focus for the third time. Drives me crazy :)
Oct 24 02:06:50 * GeneralAntilles stabs his eyes out.
Oct 24 02:08:15 <ShadowJK_> I guess there's at most an inane bugreport in bugzilla? :p
Oct 24 02:09:16 <GeneralAntilles> There is
Oct 24 02:09:53 <GeneralAntilles> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3557
Oct 24 02:12:10 <ShadowJK_> eh, "Reporter, Nokia"
Oct 24 02:13:01 <ShadowJK_> "I can see that browserd calls that 3 times when it's asked to open another new page."
Oct 24 02:13:18 <ShadowJK_> This matches exactly with what I've observed from the behaviour :)
Oct 24 02:13:50 <GeneralAntilles> Eero's a platform guy.
Oct 24 02:15:21 <ShadowJK_> a platform guy?
Oct 24 02:15:30 <GeneralAntilles> He works on the platform stuff.
Oct 24 02:16:52 <disco_stu> the browser is stupid when you load it, and it shows and hides hildon-input-keyboard
Oct 24 02:17:17 <ShadowJK_> as I'm clueless about maemo, are all the browser components open? i.e. could we remove the RaiseWindow calls and compile our own..
Oct 24 02:17:21 <GeneralAntilles> The browser basically has to re-implement text input from scratch.
Oct 24 02:17:38 <ShadowJK_> Oh yeah, I have focus issues with the location field, but that's another story :)
Oct 24 02:17:47 <GeneralAntilles> The "Mozilla based browser for Maemo" or "tablet-browser" effectively makes up two parts
Oct 24 02:18:05 <GeneralAntilles> First, MicroB the open source browser engine based on Firefox
Oct 24 02:18:15 <l7> hmm, isn't there some sort of "open new windows in background" option for microb?
Oct 24 02:18:19 <GeneralAntilles> and, second, tablet-browser-ui, the closed-source UI.
Oct 24 02:18:29 <GeneralAntilles> l7, no, but there's an enhancement request
Oct 24 02:18:36 <l7> GeneralAntilles: oh good
Oct 24 02:18:56 <GeneralAntilles> http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1695
Oct 24 02:19:01 <ShadowJK_> do you really need RaiseWindow in the app for matchbox to be able to command it to front...?
Oct 24 02:19:21 * GeneralAntilles doesn't have enough familiarity with X and window managers to have a clue.
Oct 24 02:19:37 <ShadowJK_> hmm
Oct 24 02:20:36 <l7> hmm, timeless really seems to dislike that enhancement request
Oct 24 02:20:58 <disco_stu> well i succesfully ran turbo c within dosbox
Oct 24 02:21:07 <disco_stu> and it compiled a simple c file
Oct 24 02:21:08 <l7> seems like he turns around towards the end
Oct 24 02:21:23 <disco_stu> is time to try windows 3.11
Oct 24 02:21:56 <GeneralAntilles> Ha, Boingo support finally gets back to me the day after I talk to one of the managers.
Oct 24 02:22:10 <GeneralAntilles> l7, well, RAM is extremely limited.
Oct 24 02:22:34 <GeneralAntilles> l7, you open more than a few windows and you're getting close to OOM.
Oct 24 02:22:45 <l7> too bad we can't just pop in some sodimms :)
Oct 24 02:22:54 <GeneralAntilles> Which means something has to give, and that means closing windows
Oct 24 02:23:00 <GeneralAntilles> which is just not very nice.
Oct 24 02:23:03 <l7> hrm
Oct 24 02:23:17 <GeneralAntilles> So anything that encourages opening more windows is probably not desirable.
Oct 24 02:23:25 <l7> it is nice to let one window load in the background while you keep reading the main article though
Oct 24 02:23:31 <GeneralAntilles> Rock and a hard place sort of deal.
Oct 24 02:23:50 <l7> i mean that's like 2, maybe 3 browser windows at most
Oct 24 02:24:12 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, but you know people wont use it that way
Oct 24 02:24:13 <l7> it's just about the convenience of being able to keep reading the current page without being interupted
Oct 24 02:24:28 <GeneralAntilles> and what do they say when Flash or JavaScript stops working for seemingly no reason? Or a window closes?
Oct 24 02:24:33 <l7> well.... they can suffer the consequences :)
Oct 24 02:24:47 <GeneralAntilles> The consequences of opening browser windows? :P
Oct 24 02:24:49 <l7> put a big red warning box over the option :)
Oct 24 02:24:56 <GeneralAntilles> It's not a nice situation however you look at it.
Oct 24 02:25:06 <l7> to open browser windows in the background
Oct 24 02:25:24 <l7> firefox has an appropriate warning in it's about:config
Oct 24 02:26:03 <GeneralAntilles> We'll see what happens with Fremantle
Oct 24 02:26:25 <GeneralAntilles> The browser UI is going open there, so it would be something the community could flip a switch for without issue if Nokia didn't implement it.
Oct 24 02:26:47 <GeneralAntilles> Unfortunately I don't see much hope for improvement with Diablo.
Oct 24 02:28:15 <l7> oh well
Oct 24 02:28:31 <GeneralAntilles> Soo, go get people to help with coding Tear. :P
Oct 24 02:28:38 <l7> i hope fremantle comes out soon :)
Oct 24 02:28:47 <GeneralAntilles> Next summer-ish
Oct 24 02:28:59 <l7> doh
Oct 24 02:29:23 <l7> well i guess i'm still glad about the rate at which the tablet OS is evolving
Oct 24 02:29:24 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, it's a bit of a ways away. :(
Oct 24 02:29:36 <l7> compared to those other closed devices which just stay the same
Oct 24 02:29:40 <GeneralAntilles> But it's a pretty radical change
Oct 24 02:29:51 <GeneralAntilles> and we've got SSU between now and then.
Oct 24 02:31:08 <l7> is there a page detailing what's in the works for the next SSU?
Oct 24 02:31:34 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Oct 24 02:31:56 <GeneralAntilles> You can follow the changelogs for the open source stuff on Garage
Oct 24 02:32:48 <l7> the closed source stuff is top secret then?
Oct 24 02:32:58 <GeneralAntilles> One sec
Oct 24 02:33:23 <penguinbait> times up
Oct 24 02:33:34 <GeneralAntilles> http://tinyurl.com/6oe44p
Oct 24 02:33:43 <GeneralAntilles> Bugs that may or may not be fixed in the next release
Oct 24 02:33:58 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia is pretty tight-lipped about what's too be included in future updates.
Oct 24 02:34:39 <l7> hrm
Oct 24 02:35:00 <l7> reminds me that company that rhymes with snapple
Oct 24 02:35:43 <l7> i guess it gives them a little room for more exciting press releases
Oct 24 02:36:11 <ShadowJK_> heh, I tried to kill XRaiseWindow with some LD_PRELOAD, but it didn't seem to work
Oct 24 02:36:29 <GeneralAntilles> l7, they're not a company familiar with open source.
Oct 24 02:36:40 <Pavlov> heh
Oct 24 02:37:03 <GeneralAntilles> I can't imagine the suffering the Maemo Software guys go through
Oct 24 02:37:30 <l7> they suffer from doing open source?
Oct 24 02:37:52 <GeneralAntilles> No, being open source people working in a closed-source company like Nokia
Oct 24 02:38:04 <l7> oh, yeah
Oct 24 02:38:23 <GeneralAntilles> Especially they people that put themselves out there in the community and end up taking flack for Nokia's practices.
Oct 24 02:38:28 <GeneralAntilles> s/they/the/
Oct 24 02:38:28 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Especially the people that put themselves out there in the community and end up taking flack for Nokia's practices.
Oct 24 02:39:11 <l7> yeah, that can't be fun
Oct 24 02:39:19 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: does nokia pay to you?
Oct 24 02:39:23 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Oct 24 02:39:27 <disco_stu> haha
Oct 24 02:39:28 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, no.
Oct 24 02:39:47 <GeneralAntilles> Well, I got a t-shirt from timeless for Bugzilla triaging. :P
Oct 24 02:40:25 <disco_stu> hahah
Oct 24 02:40:29 <l7> heh
Oct 24 02:40:30 <l7> maybe the linux foundation might sponsor you :)
Oct 24 02:43:38 <l7> wow, there's a bunch of crazy stuff in /afs
Oct 24 02:43:41 <TokyoDan> The Maemo PC Connectivity explanation isn't clear about what development environment configuration is/isn't necessary when using the Eclipse Pluthon plug-in instead of the ESBox/Scratchbox plugin.
Oct 24 02:43:41 <TokyoDan> -----
Oct 24 02:43:41 <TokyoDan> Pluthon = develop Maemo apps on PC, run and test on actual Maemo device.
Oct 24 02:43:41 <TokyoDan> ESBox = develop, run & test Maemo apps in scratchbox environment on PC.
Oct 24 02:43:41 <TokyoDan> -----
Oct 24 02:43:42 <TokyoDan> What's not clear is what needs to be configured when using Pluthon for development:
Oct 24 02:43:44 <TokyoDan> 1. SSH: Configure for ability to establish a connection without need to enter a password.
Oct 24 02:43:46 <TokyoDan>  I did this.
Oct 24 02:43:48 <TokyoDan> 2. SSHFS:  Configure for ability to access Maemo device filesystem from a mount on the PC.
Oct 24 02:43:50 <TokyoDan> This may be necessary if using ESBox, but is it also necessary if using Pluthon instead of ESBox?
Oct 24 02:43:52 <TokyoDan> 3. SBRSH: Scratchbox Remote Shell.
Oct 24 02:43:54 <TokyoDan> I don't believe this is necessary since I won't be using ESBox/Scratchbox on the PC to develop Maemo apps. The apps will be run & tested on the Maemo device.
Oct 24 02:43:57 <GeneralAntilles> Whoa
Oct 24 02:44:09 <GeneralAntilles> slexy.org please
Oct 24 02:45:47 <disco_stu> slexy is one of the nicest pastebins i've ever used
Oct 24 02:46:09 <disco_stu> i should make a hildon client for maemo
Oct 24 02:51:22 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: is there any explanation about why sometimes file manager doesnt see CIFS shares ?
Oct 24 02:51:32 <GeneralAntilles> ifs
Oct 24 02:51:42 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Oct 24 02:51:46 <GeneralAntilles> Um, dunno.
Oct 24 02:51:49 <GeneralAntilles> Think there's a bug.
Oct 24 02:52:40 <disco_stu> you can manually mount it
Oct 24 02:53:00 <disco_stu> so it works.. but not automatically like expected
Oct 24 02:55:10 <GeneralAntilles> If there's not a bug, file one.
Oct 24 02:56:41 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: i'm not the kind of guy who does that
Oct 24 02:57:13 <GeneralAntilles> Files bugs?
Oct 24 02:57:27 <GeneralAntilles> What's wrong with filing bugs?
Oct 24 02:57:27 <disco_stu> burocracy in general
Oct 24 02:57:37 <GeneralAntilles> Clearly developers wont fix issues if they don't know about them.
Oct 24 02:57:53 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: the have crystal balls i guess
Oct 24 02:57:55 <GeneralAntilles> What has bugzilla got to do with bureaucracy?
Oct 24 02:58:13 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: burocracy is easier to speel
Oct 24 02:58:21 <disco_stu> s/speel/spell
Oct 24 02:58:30 <disco_stu> i miss the trailing '/'
Oct 24 02:58:34 <disco_stu> damn it
Oct 24 02:58:53 <GeneralAntilles> Anyway, if you don't file a bug, then you forfeit you rights to complain about it. :)
Oct 24 02:59:06 <GeneralAntilles> s/you/your/2
Oct 24 02:59:13 * ShadowJK_ fails at quickfixing focus stealing with LD_PRELOAD :-(
Oct 24 02:59:17 <disco_stu> mmm.. what is forfeit ?
Oct 24 02:59:30 <GeneralAntilles> Give up your rights
Oct 24 02:59:35 <disco_stu> i see
Oct 24 02:59:39 <disco_stu> :D
Oct 24 02:59:54 <ShadowJK_> does the file browser still not support password protected smb shares?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 24 02:59:57 2008