**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 24 02:59:57 2008 Oct 24 03:00:33 ShadowJK_: i'm with Chinook and it doesnt, dunoo about Diablo Oct 24 03:00:45 /s/dunoo/dunno/ Oct 24 03:00:52 yeah i know it didn't in diablo Oct 24 03:00:56 er, in chinook Oct 24 03:00:58 fuck me ! Oct 24 03:01:19 ? Oct 24 03:01:21 i cant learn how to fix mispellings Oct 24 03:01:53 too much work to my brain that is already emulating english speaking Oct 24 03:07:29 :P Oct 24 03:28:24 Sooo, what do folks here think of the "iKIT Oct 24 03:28:26 "? Oct 24 03:28:50 Way underpowered Oct 24 03:28:55 Screen's way too small Oct 24 03:29:00 Maybe if it were under $100 Oct 24 03:29:49 312MHz ROM: 128 MB, RAM: 64 MB SDRAM ... ROM? Oct 24 03:30:06 NAND, presumably Oct 24 03:30:25 i like it :) Oct 24 03:31:37 what's the actual size ? Oct 24 03:31:50 It definitely looks a bit frightingly like an old clamshell zaurus Oct 24 03:32:11 same processor Oct 24 03:32:23 the size compared to a n800 Oct 24 03:32:24 ? Oct 24 03:33:59 looks smaller Oct 24 03:34:03 little bit bigger than a phone Oct 24 03:34:33 95mm (L) x 65mm (W) x 15.5mm (H) Oct 24 03:34:37 http://www.webitpr.com/release_detail.asp?ReleaseID=10258 Oct 24 03:34:59 is nice.. but i dont know about that kb Oct 24 03:35:52 yeah, it's a fair bit smaller: http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/19089-Nokia-n810-vs-iKit Oct 24 03:37:27 it should be way to smaller Oct 24 03:42:53 the thing with ikit is that it doesnt offer things that a cellphone offers Oct 24 03:43:08 my nokia e50 gives me everything ikit does but wifi Oct 24 03:43:34 it should be ultra small Oct 24 03:57:07 can I download google maps onto my computer and just move the file to my N810 for maemo-mapper to use? Oct 24 04:00:17 zackeroo: i dont think so Oct 24 04:00:48 e50 has no wifi? Oct 24 04:01:14 i thought ell e series had wifi :/ Oct 24 04:01:20 reason I asked was that mapper is really not good with downloading the maps Oct 24 04:01:56 * disco_stu is watching sharapova pics, will be back in 10 minutes Oct 24 04:02:08 half of the time it freezes during download .... and other times it says it needs to download outragous amounts of data for my selection .... Oct 24 04:10:34 disco_stu : turns out it is possible ... ever heard of winmapper? Oct 24 04:11:44 Is it compatible with 2.x? Oct 24 04:28:53 GeneralAntilles : asking me? Oct 24 04:29:18 Well, last time I checked it wasn't. Oct 24 04:29:23 2.x mapper? Oct 24 04:29:38 Yes Oct 24 04:29:42 Moved from folders to a real database. Oct 24 04:30:04 oh Oct 24 04:30:09 I dunno about that .. Oct 24 04:30:58 so its back to square one ... Oct 24 04:31:03 :) Oct 24 04:31:22 It's largely because Google throttles big map downloads. Oct 24 04:32:10 yeah ... which is why I wish people would share the downloads they have done Oct 24 04:32:46 like if someone already downloaded an area or city they could share that online .... torrent it or something ... Oct 24 04:32:51 no? Oct 24 04:34:10 Eh Oct 24 04:34:15 Sounds like a lot of work for little reward Oct 24 04:34:33 Besides, how do you integrate a database of the northeast with a database of the southwest? Oct 24 04:34:49 You have one database per repository. Oct 24 04:34:59 but is it even true when maemo mapper says it will need to download 12GB for an area ? Oct 24 04:35:46 It can be less depending on the number of duplicate tiles Oct 24 04:35:52 which the database method accounts for. Oct 24 04:36:04 But, generally speaking, they're raster maps and not particularly small. Oct 24 04:37:27 so it could be less than what it says it will need to download Oct 24 04:37:45 Usually isn't Oct 24 04:37:50 Especially for urban areas Oct 24 04:37:59 unless the area you're downloading is mostly water Oct 24 04:38:34 how about the option to download "Along Route" ... how does that work? Oct 24 04:39:21 Once you have a route, it downloads x number of tiles along it. Oct 24 04:39:42 Get a piece of graph paper, draw a squiggly line Oct 24 04:39:46 "have a route" please explain Oct 24 04:39:53 It downloads the tiles that line intersects Oct 24 04:40:00 A navigation route Oct 24 04:40:05 A GPX track Oct 24 04:40:17 Directions from point a to point b. Oct 24 04:40:26 It's right at the top of the menu. Oct 24 04:40:33 I downloaded a route from gnuite .. does that count? Oct 24 04:40:54 A route is just a gpx track Oct 24 04:40:57 so it can be any gpx track Oct 24 04:41:07 Shows up as a green line on the map by default. Oct 24 04:41:19 so I now have a route from Melbourne to Sydney ... and there is a green line on my map showing the route Oct 24 04:42:32 to download that route ... I should use the "Along Route" option ... right? Oct 24 04:42:45 To download tiles along the route. Oct 24 04:42:47 but ... what is the number there for ? Oct 24 04:43:13 its on number 8 at the moment Oct 24 04:43:33 That's how many tiles wide around the route it should download. . . . Oct 24 04:44:05 is there a way to see the tile grid so I can know what that means? Oct 24 04:44:19 like how far is 8 tiles? Oct 24 04:44:26 Depends on the zoom level. Oct 24 04:45:17 zoom levels 6,8 and 10 Oct 24 04:45:22 for instance Oct 24 04:46:27 I wish google maps showed the grid ... that would be helpful Oct 24 04:47:00 oh and by the way ... I never got flite to work .... so no voices ... :( Oct 24 04:47:59 is there a way to tell how large a tile is? Oct 24 04:48:26 Fullscreen it's about 8 tiles at any particular zoom level. Oct 24 04:49:42 ok... well I did 5 tiles ... at 6,8 and 10 zoom Oct 24 04:49:55 says its going to download 185MB Oct 24 04:50:58 is there a way to stop that GPS notification popup? Oct 24 04:51:13 popup? Oct 24 04:51:35 says stuff like "Turn Right at such and such street" Oct 24 04:51:40 keeps blinking Oct 24 04:51:46 It's in preferences, I'm sure. Oct 24 04:56:07 so there is no other way to get voice working but through flite Oct 24 04:56:08 ? Oct 24 05:23:15 Hi ! Oct 24 05:24:27 someone know an online service which redirect a host/port to an other other one with a different port ? dyndns doesn t able to change port Oct 24 05:25:17 most of that kind of services are for 'name' redirection Oct 24 05:25:34 yep Oct 24 05:25:40 and I don't think they'll do 'port redirect' for free Oct 24 05:25:41 that my problem Oct 24 05:26:12 and the only one i found was 114$ by month Oct 24 05:26:32 tehehe Oct 24 05:27:27 at this price i prefer to create my own server Oct 24 05:28:34 yea, well port redirection requires some kind of software to be installed Oct 24 05:29:11 that'll act as a 'proxy', because I don't think its possible to do it in any other way Oct 24 05:29:18 what do you need it for? Oct 24 05:31:13 this is for by passing the orange stupid decision to block port 993 (imap ssl) for 'security reason' on data connection Oct 24 05:31:14 as well as port 25 ... saying that it s a common port used by spammer Oct 24 05:31:20 i suggest they to block also 80 as many forbidden thing can be done on this port too Oct 24 05:31:24 ping ? Oct 24 05:31:36 reading and sending mail Oct 24 05:32:01 gmail Oct 24 05:32:08 hah Oct 24 05:32:34 yeah orange suck Oct 24 05:32:55 so, they block any connection attempt to 993 and 25? Oct 24 05:33:27 yem Oct 24 05:33:29 is it your own imap server? can't you change the port number? Oct 24 05:33:31 yepm Oct 24 05:33:44 no it s the gmail one Oct 24 05:34:01 and i prefer to not create one at home Oct 24 05:34:15 adsl connection is not reliable Oct 24 05:35:48 doesn't orange handle iphones in france? Oct 24 05:35:58 (you are in france, right?) Oct 24 05:36:53 iphone uses imap gmail, I suppose those connect to 993 too Oct 24 05:37:39 yep Oct 24 05:38:05 but orange sell the data connection for iphone only with an iphone Oct 24 05:38:27 other user have this stupid restriction since 10days Oct 24 05:39:09 can't you sue them or something Oct 24 05:39:47 or make them return your money since they have made it 'useless' for your needs Oct 24 05:39:55 yep ... Oct 24 05:40:01 they change service Oct 24 05:40:15 but other french isp suck too Oct 24 05:40:32 bouygue telecom autorize only their pop3 server Oct 24 05:40:58 and sfr limit mail to 10Mo ... or you need to use the webmail Oct 24 05:41:07 10Mo by month Oct 24 05:41:24 hmm it should be possible to 'tunnel' all your communication through ssh Oct 24 05:41:32 (unless they ban 22) Oct 24 05:41:45 22 banned Oct 24 05:42:11 but i could set it to 80 on my home computer Oct 24 05:42:38 but i prefer to not do that ... as it require a permanent computer running Oct 24 05:43:19 See if you can leave it running on a router or something, I leave http://www.nocrew.org/software/httptunnel.html running on my netgear Oct 24 06:05:25 does anyone know how to get flite working on a N810 device with mapper? Oct 24 06:08:18 does anyone here use mapper and flite together? Oct 24 06:17:01 <`Mace> hi Oct 24 06:17:27 <`Mace> blah Oct 24 06:18:58 <`Mace> hi Oct 24 06:19:16 <`Mace> i need to see if my httpd vm works on esx Oct 24 06:19:21 <`Mace> i hope i used scsi to make the drive instead of ide Oct 24 06:19:26 <`Mace> i guess you can't use ide for esxi Oct 24 06:19:29 <`Mace> bastards Oct 24 06:19:42 <`Mace> why even have it then? in case someone is running MS DOS 3? Oct 24 06:24:43 ok well ... without voice this is still useless as a GPS device ... :( Oct 24 06:25:44 I mean I payed $350 for this thing ... I could have paid $100 for an ordinary GPS device, but i bought this becasue I thought I was getting a GPS device + lots more ... Oct 24 06:26:14 turns out I got "lots more" minus the GPS services ... Oct 24 06:27:00 "Map" gives you what you're after. Oct 24 06:27:17 or i have to fork out another X amount of bucks to get MAP to work ... which, as I am reading reviews, does not get a fantastic score either Oct 24 06:28:20 and then this will have cost me about $450 which is a tad bit outragous imo for a GPS device that is ireless as well and has a few other apps and things you can do .... Oct 24 06:28:35 You bought it for the wrong reasons Oct 24 06:28:50 It's a handheld laptop than can also do some GPS work on the side. Oct 24 06:28:51 I bought it for reasons it was advertised Oct 24 06:29:18 You did realize that GPS navigation wasn't included in the price of the device, though, right? :\ Oct 24 06:29:49 when I came here and read up on it, and on maemo-mapper, people were full of praise about it ... Oct 24 06:31:06 then as I am working through getting it to work its practically no fun .... there is no clearly marked out documentation on mapper and its easiness to use and setup .... I am also being told that i can have sound in mapper ... "of course you can" ppl say ... Oct 24 06:31:30 but is it working for me? ... no! and that is what is frustrating .... Oct 24 06:31:43 Maemo Mapper has built-in help. Oct 24 06:31:56 It's quite good. Oct 24 06:32:19 show me the where I can read about how to setup flite ... Oct 24 06:32:26 or audio Oct 24 06:32:51 It should just work. Oct 24 06:33:00 There's probably something wrong with your particularly setup. Oct 24 06:33:07 You could always try mailing maem-users. Oct 24 06:33:19 yeah ... and I am a basic user ... I have not fiddled with anything in-depth Oct 24 06:33:48 this is where OS looses out ... its too complex for the basic user to figure out ... Oct 24 06:34:01 we don't want to have to debug and all that Oct 24 06:34:02 Eh Oct 24 06:34:06 :) Oct 24 06:34:11 It's simple enough if you use it for what it's intended for Oct 24 06:34:24 But it's not a platform for the feint of heart if you want to expand beyond that. Oct 24 06:34:26 well.. that is what I am doing .... no? Oct 24 06:34:55 I am working onthe very basic level here .... Oct 24 06:35:12 like you said "it should just work" Oct 24 06:35:17 I suspect you'll have the most fun with the platform if you look at it as a learning experience Oct 24 06:35:18 moo all Oct 24 06:35:31 Howdy, RST38h. Oct 24 06:35:40 do the developers ever ask themselves "so what happens if it doesn't work?" Oct 24 06:35:51 a "learning experience"? Oct 24 06:35:53 ehlo, General Oct 24 06:36:03 so what you mean is this thing is not ready for the GP Oct 24 06:36:12 at least some of its features Oct 24 06:36:24 Like I said earlier, the basic features work fine. Oct 24 06:36:25 what thing? maemo? Oct 24 06:36:29 or some of the apps built for it.... Oct 24 06:36:43 is maemo-mapper and audio not basic? Oct 24 06:36:52 I think its basic .... Oct 24 06:37:37 and, again, where in the mapper help is there any info about getting Audio to work? Oct 24 06:37:51 as I missed the start of this conversation, could you say exactly what general programming means to you? Oct 24 06:37:59 hehe Oct 24 06:38:24 For 99% of people, it's "install flite and turn on voice synthesis" Oct 24 06:38:41 I was just talking with GA here about the N810 and its GPS feature Oct 24 06:38:54 and? Oct 24 06:39:13 If you want perfectly end-user ready, pay up and buy a "Map" license. Oct 24 06:39:23 I understand that ... but I have to ask where does that leave the 1% (if indeed it is so few) who have probs with it Oct 24 06:39:24 ? Oct 24 06:39:51 Figuring out their problem? Oct 24 06:39:56 Could be a packaging issue Oct 24 06:40:05 flite hasn't been uploaded to Diablo Extras Oct 24 06:40:07 it leaves those people in whatever shit they were before they bought their tablets. Oct 24 06:40:37 so there could be a compatability issue between mapper and flite Oct 24 06:40:40 ? Oct 24 06:40:40 as long as it is 1%, they are insignificant Oct 24 06:41:05 I don't know Oct 24 06:41:14 maemo-users might be a better place to ask Oct 24 06:41:29 and is there any other free alternative to mapper? Oct 24 06:41:33 navit Oct 24 06:41:35 roadmap Oct 24 06:41:41 did he try itt already? Oct 24 06:41:46 are they in the repos? Oct 24 06:44:57 can Navit use flite? Oct 24 06:49:04 Sony said UIQ is dead. Amen. Oct 24 06:50:22 RST38h: w00t Oct 24 06:57:50 azerty12 Oct 24 07:01:52 ARM says Cortex A8/A9 are coming to netbooks. Oct 24 07:02:12 probably figured winxp emulation :) Oct 24 07:02:18 hehe Oct 24 07:03:40 * Stskeeps is trying to kickstart his brain with a massive sugar rush. Oct 24 07:04:01 a boot is usually better for kick-starting Oct 24 07:04:02 :-P Oct 24 07:04:23 RST38h, I'm so down with an OMAP3440 netbook. Oct 24 07:04:31 * Stskeeps would enjoy a laptop on a omap too Oct 24 07:04:39 and then just sd card slots Oct 24 07:05:02 why? I dont really care either way but doubt it will fly Oct 24 07:05:05 what do you use to edit files ? Oct 24 07:05:13 like instead of kate or gedit Oct 24 07:05:18 edlin Oct 24 07:06:06 edlin? Oct 24 07:06:12 8-16 hour active battery life out of a ~4400-5800mAh battery would be fun. Oct 24 07:06:13 more arm-based mids should be nice though, especially startrek-styled ones Oct 24 07:06:32 RST38h: because of non-movable parts Oct 24 07:06:43 completely silent, doesn't get warm.. Oct 24 07:08:18 and what about slide-out keyboard in tablets or the hinge in netbooks? Oct 24 07:08:49 ummm.. anyone know? Oct 24 07:08:59 vi? Oct 24 07:09:10 * melmoth uses vi Oct 24 07:09:11 thanks Oct 24 07:09:15 nooo, I want Iphone form factor in x8 size - steve jobs Oct 24 07:09:32 iPhone. :P Oct 24 07:09:36 there s pygtkeditor for a gui based editor with fancy syntax highlight Oct 24 07:10:22 ok... something else than vi? Oct 24 07:10:35 something more like kate or gedit? Oct 24 07:11:07 zackeroo: please visit download section at maemo.org and search for editor Oct 24 07:11:47 do you know where to enter Maemoorg" in your browser and how to use search? Oct 24 07:12:03 can you name one I can install from the repos? Oct 24 07:12:34 Morning, all Oct 24 07:13:56 Hi, Jaffa. Oct 24 07:15:13 morning Oct 24 07:15:44 is it possible to install apps to other places than the internal memory? Oct 24 07:16:00 ~boot-sd Oct 24 07:16:01 boot-sd is, like, https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card Oct 24 07:17:10 morning all Oct 24 07:17:47 Hi, aquatix. Oct 24 07:18:33 * GeneralAntilles wonders where jott and guenther are hiding Oct 24 07:18:58 ok I looked up text editors in the downloads area of maemo.org and there are only 3 .... Oct 24 07:19:12 Leafpad ... installed and does not work from the terminal Oct 24 07:19:36 VIM -- too complex for my needs Oct 24 07:20:02 Xournal -- not in the repos Oct 24 07:22:56 you want a ncurses editor that is more "user friendly" than vi ? I guess the only option left to you is to port joe or something Oct 24 07:23:10 i have a joe deb Oct 24 07:23:16 i use it exclusively :P Oct 24 07:23:32 Stskeeps -> Extras Oct 24 07:23:57 GeneralAntilles: i will eventually :P should look into mud builder it seems Oct 24 07:23:58 Hi, i have problems installing the 4.1.1 SDK on my X86_64 (Ubuntu). I get http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/free/libh/libhildon/libhildon1_2.0.6-1_i386.deb Error reading from server and the same for libsmbclient. Oct 24 07:24:22 smokie: get the updated .sh Oct 24 07:24:38 o.k. Oct 24 07:26:31 Good ol' unreliable maemo.org Oct 24 07:26:42 Jaffa, by the way, I saw the council vid. Oct 24 07:26:46 You guys owe me blogs. :P Oct 24 07:28:59 ;-) Oct 24 07:29:50 I may have to put etrunko on the job of helping Dave out with INdT. Oct 24 07:32:19 Good idea Oct 24 07:33:09 I'm sure he's busy with Canola, but he's gotta put in _some_ council time. Oct 24 07:34:41 * Stskeeps really never heard of etrunko before elections Oct 24 07:35:04 how long can it take to change some servers for maemo? Oct 24 07:35:16 macoute, I don't know. :\ Oct 24 07:35:19 macoute: a leopard guards the 770s that run it Oct 24 07:35:23 in a good system, it would take about 10 minutes Oct 24 07:35:24 tekojo says it's the db server now. Oct 24 07:35:32 and nerds aren't fond of leopards. Oct 24 07:35:34 and that they don't yet have a schedule for the upgrade from the ISP Oct 24 07:35:34 but as we can see, maemo is not a good system :) Oct 24 07:35:59 GeneralAntilles: 10 bucks it's just midgard bringing down any system cos of some thedailywtf.com like statements Oct 24 07:36:02 :P Oct 24 07:36:04 Stskeeps, he's been around since the beginning, but is pretty quiet in community stuff Oct 24 07:50:36 Stskeeps, worked. Great ... lets move on to hello world :-) Oct 24 07:51:55 Stskeeps, there's a thread on -developers you might want to wade into. Oct 24 07:53:54 johnx, too. Oct 24 07:54:06 GeneralAntilles : does the n810 come with Diablo by default? Oct 24 07:54:12 No Oct 24 07:54:31 whats it come with? Oct 24 07:54:49 Maybe 51-3 at this point? I'm not sure. Oct 24 07:54:51 Chinook, anyway. Oct 24 07:55:03 hmmm Oct 24 07:55:21 so would flite be working if was using that? Oct 24 07:55:58 GeneralAntilles: which one? Oct 24 07:56:16 chinnok Oct 24 07:56:20 chinook Oct 24 07:56:49 zackeroo: doesn't flite work with diablo then? Oct 24 07:56:59 not with mapper Oct 24 07:57:10 installs but doesn't work? Oct 24 07:57:15 Stskeeps, the recent one about Maemo and upstream from Quim Oct 24 07:57:29 yep Oct 24 07:57:39 installs... but get nothing through mapper Oct 24 07:57:44 does it work from the commandline? Oct 24 07:57:49 yes Oct 24 07:58:16 tried it with "hello world" and it works Oct 24 08:01:30 GeneralAntilles: it is a difficult discussion though.. i'll think of something for it Oct 24 08:02:43 * Jaffa rewatches the coucil video - Mrs Jaffa really did fsck up on my hair the day before travelling Oct 24 08:03:21 GeneralAntilles: maybe a "wet dream maemo" vision could be a possibility to write about Oct 24 08:04:52 Quim always has this "we're open, we're not hiding things, why don't you discuss it with us in the open?" vibe about him in discussions that this that doesn't totally jive with the reality of Nokia. Oct 24 08:05:31 Jaffa, you had hair in the video? :P Oct 24 08:05:59 maybe that was the fsck up Oct 24 08:06:08 Hehe Oct 24 08:06:36 GeneralAntilles : so ... I think I may have changed to Diablo ... for what reasons i forget .... but if I backtracked to Chinook would I still be able to use mapper and flite? Oct 24 08:07:13 Mrs Jaffa started at the back with the clippers - forgetting to put on the plastic bit. Oct 24 08:07:42 Ahaha Oct 24 08:08:11 Jaffa: my gf is never cutting my hair again either Oct 24 08:12:19 luckily i have a haircut nobody can really mess up Oct 24 08:12:24 bald? Oct 24 08:12:25 :P Oct 24 08:12:38 yes Oct 24 08:13:34 wife doesn't like if it gets over 1 mm Oct 24 08:15:49 . Oct 24 08:16:15 solmumaha: so she can smack your head better? ;-) Oct 24 08:17:36 well it doesn't really look good any longer tbh :) Oct 24 08:30:20 how do I install wget in maemo? Oct 24 08:32:22 I am trying to install roadmap ... but it says it needs wget Oct 24 08:34:09 install extras and apt-get install wget Oct 24 08:34:09 :P Oct 24 08:34:22 or try red pill mode Oct 24 08:35:53 ^ no. Oct 24 08:35:59 Bad solmumaha. Oct 24 08:38:26 sry Oct 24 08:39:11 wget doesn't show up in red pill mode? Oct 24 08:39:31 no, red pill mode is discouraged Oct 24 08:39:51 Red Pill is bad juju Oct 24 08:39:59 It does bad things that get users in big trouble Oct 24 08:40:06 apt-get install wget is a lot lower impact Oct 24 08:40:30 Once he installs Roadmap, he is going to complain. Badly. Right here. And ask questions. Oct 24 08:40:54 So I suggest you do not help him install Roadmap. =) Oct 24 08:41:59 ha Oct 24 08:42:05 too late.... its done Oct 24 08:42:42 the install added a repo though... Oct 24 08:42:49 called mg Oct 24 08:43:31 should i disable it? Oct 24 08:45:54 oh? Oct 24 08:49:14 zackeroo: well, i guess it's needed for roadmap packages? Oct 24 08:51:56 it added as I was installing wget Oct 24 08:56:05 oh Oct 24 09:03:05 * GeneralAntilles can't decide between a maemo.org startup splash and Err. Oct 24 09:03:57 Are there any problems installing esbox in eclipse ganymed ? Instal was fine, but all esbox option (maemo project, preferences, ...) end up in an error popup ? Oct 24 09:10:42 maemo.org is going to get a startup splash? =) Oct 24 09:10:54 "Loading.." Oct 24 09:11:03 * RST38h wonders whether ignoring latest redesign discussion has been a bad idea Oct 24 09:11:31 Meanwhile: http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ Oct 24 09:18:23 Carman's not checking if you've already selected a location during updates. Oct 24 09:19:31 Hoo man, that looks nice. Oct 24 09:19:49 Did anybody ever figure out where the first Nokia logo resides? Oct 24 09:20:52 GeneralAntilles: First logo? Oct 24 09:21:02 During startup Oct 24 09:21:15 I'm thinking it's on the initfs, but I'm not sure. Oct 24 09:21:20 initfs? Oct 24 09:21:34 I think so, I don't think it is in NOLO. Oct 24 09:22:15 it's in NOLO Oct 24 09:22:18 afaik Oct 24 09:22:30 the very first nokia one Oct 24 09:22:48 Isn't there an option in 0xffff to replace it? Oct 24 09:22:51 I thought so. Oct 24 09:22:54 Ugh, what a pain. Oct 24 09:23:40 GeneralAntilles: Well, it _is_ Nokia's own branding ;) Oct 24 09:24:10 Next thing you want to do is remove the name nokia on your tablet's front? :) Oct 24 09:24:16 I paid for the damn device. :P Oct 24 09:24:22 Nah, that looks good. Oct 24 09:25:07 What do I want to replace the hands with? Oct 24 09:31:34 ESBox wont start here in ganymede. Even the preference dialog doesn't come because its unable to activate some classes ???? Oct 24 09:34:21 okay, so a optimized glibc -feels- like it helps. Oct 24 09:34:27 very interesting Oct 24 09:34:34 either that or i want it to help Oct 24 09:35:50 johnx: grab http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/glibc-optimized/ , libc6-dev and libc6 and whatever other packages you think might help : Oct 24 09:46:56 Interesting Oct 24 09:47:28 Replaced the hands image with my current desktop background Oct 24 09:47:33 gives the impression of a faster startup. Oct 24 09:47:57 Make sure you have all the UI images on top of that background as well Oct 24 09:48:02 Less flickering :) Oct 24 09:48:11 This is how iPhone makes application startup "faster" =) Oct 24 09:48:28 yes, but don't try to click on something. Oct 24 09:49:25 GeneralAntilles: indeed Oct 24 09:49:54 http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/03/08/improving_application_start_up_usability#comments Oct 24 09:50:07 http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/03/08/improving_application_start_up_usability even - and http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/03/09/improving_application_start_up_mockup Oct 24 09:50:22 Maybe grab Hildon Desktop's outline Oct 24 09:50:45 then make a greyed-out version of it Oct 24 09:50:55 "It's there, just wait another 3 seconds" :) Oct 24 09:51:16 just leave it as it is, will'ya? Oct 24 09:53:49 GeneralAntilles: you should test that on a woman Oct 24 09:54:14 i know my wife would say it's broken before it's booted Oct 24 09:54:19 btw. does anyone know who maintains maemo.org-widset? Oct 24 09:56:03 Stskeeps, trying the new libc in a bit Oct 24 09:56:25 macoute, "wdiset"? Oct 24 09:56:29 s/wdi/wid/ Oct 24 09:56:29 GeneralAntilles meant: macoute, "widset"? Oct 24 09:57:23 GeneralAntilles: its kinda an rss-feed-reader for mobile phones. finnish invention I think. Oct 24 09:57:36 http://www.widsets.com/ Oct 24 09:58:46 * Jaffa has never heard of it Oct 24 10:02:10 It is weird javascript-based stuff that runs inside an S60 browser Oct 24 10:03:07 its kinda handy to have, though most of the widsets are coded like hell Oct 24 10:03:30 for example the weatherforecast-app has downloaded over 10 megs in some months Oct 24 10:03:35 and i never use it Oct 24 10:03:49 and most of the widset i use frequently only downloaded under a meg Oct 24 10:03:54 in the same time Oct 24 10:04:12 the traffic is not a problem, but the battery is :/ Oct 24 10:04:27 Raining like crazy outside Oct 24 10:04:28 it can drain my e51 in about 12h if i leave it open Oct 24 10:04:34 made me think I had missed another hurricane. Oct 24 10:05:04 GeneralAntilles, here too. probably a big hurricane :) Oct 24 10:05:19 * GeneralAntilles did that once. Oct 24 10:05:58 "Man, it's raining a lot outside. *pulls up wunderground.com* Oh . . . tropical storm." Oct 24 10:06:39 we just get typhoons. Not enough wind to do damage ... and I live on top of a hill, so flooding isn't really a concern Oct 24 10:18:22 johnx: k, and just dpkg -i it Oct 24 10:18:43 sounds good Oct 24 10:22:48 you optimized locales too? :) Oct 24 10:23:34 i have no clue if they're optimized ;) i dpkg-buildpackage glibc and other scary things come along Oct 24 10:25:24 :) well the package is architecture "all" so ... Oct 24 10:25:32 yeah :P Oct 24 10:25:42 installing Oct 24 10:26:27 I take it this is a necessary step before being able to optimize anything higher up? Oct 24 10:26:52 well Oct 24 10:26:55 it's a step ahead Oct 24 10:27:05 i mean, most apps use libc functions Oct 24 10:27:07 if not every Oct 24 10:27:11 libm is part of this too Oct 24 10:27:48 maemo Oct 24 10:27:51 ncsd seg faults Oct 24 10:28:04 the install or? Oct 24 10:28:10 i just installed libc, seemed to work Oct 24 10:28:12 not the nscd Oct 24 10:28:16 Starting Name Service Cache Daemon: nscdSegmentation fault Oct 24 10:28:16 failed! Oct 24 10:28:25 maemo Oct 24 10:29:05 johnx: with the package laying on my repo or without? Oct 24 10:29:08 repo/url Oct 24 10:29:14 with Oct 24 10:29:19 k Oct 24 10:29:22 didn't test that honestly Oct 24 10:29:31 I didn't know if I needed it or not Oct 24 10:29:38 i just applied libc6 and -dev Oct 24 10:29:40 maemo Oct 24 10:30:02 hmm, actually I think if you enable vfp you might want to declare a subarchitecture Oct 24 10:30:03 and stuff seems to work :P Oct 24 10:30:25 anyways, the rest installed ok, so I'll reboot and enjoy the blinding speed Oct 24 10:30:34 k - revert nscd i guess Oct 24 10:34:17 and why a subarchitecture? Oct 24 10:34:42 Bizarre Oct 24 10:34:50 That guy's been spamming off and on for months. Oct 24 10:35:11 Stskeeps, because vftp packages won't work on armv5te Oct 24 10:35:12 he's chanting maemo maemo maemo Oct 24 10:35:41 johnx: well, this one was optimized for n8x0 specifically Oct 24 10:35:58 this is -vfp thoug Oct 24 10:36:00 h Oct 24 10:36:26 are there armv6 CPUs without vfp? Oct 24 10:36:41 I think so. And I also think that there are armv5 cpus with vfp Oct 24 10:36:53 is there anything else that uses floats in glibc except libm ? Oct 24 10:37:44 good question, but for the apps that use libm this might be an advantage :P Oct 24 10:38:56 johnx: yes Oct 24 10:39:02 VFP is really optional Oct 24 10:39:17 johnx: anyway this package was just an attempt to see if it helps any to optimize specifically, not something that'd go in an "ordinary" install Oct 24 10:39:42 of course, just doing a brain-dump over here :) Oct 24 10:39:46 hehe Oct 24 10:40:01 * GeneralAntilles wipes johnx's brains off his shoes. Oct 24 10:40:11 RST38h: that should be interesting for you: http://www.lenta.ru/news/2008/10/23/symbian/ Oct 24 10:42:20 * GeneralAntilles finds it odd that it's taken so long to start getting real computers in cars. Oct 24 10:43:09 zap: Old news. They are not going to do it right away though Oct 24 10:43:39 zap: In related news, Sony just announced they are abandoning UIQ. Oct 24 10:44:15 General: It took long enough traffic jams so that the drivers could really make use of in-car PCs Oct 24 10:45:07 A pity that with oil prices going down, we will not see the rise of mass-transit in the US, would be good for the mobile tech Oct 24 10:46:44 Stskeeps: I mean, then you only need to compile a optimized version libm, not the whole shebang Oct 24 10:47:02 suihkulokki: possibly, but did you see glibc package recently? :P Oct 24 10:47:18 it even runs test caes Oct 24 10:47:20 cases Oct 24 10:47:45 (which i disabled after it crashed my builder) Oct 24 10:47:51 and that's good, it makes sure you don't get a broken libc when going all gentoo with buildopts ;) Oct 24 10:47:57 hehe Oct 24 10:48:26 I take it that the last test you saw was tst-robust1 ? :) Oct 24 10:48:40 wordexp, scaringily Oct 24 10:49:54 that doesn't sound healthy Oct 24 10:50:11 well it is a qemu armel builder, so Oct 24 10:50:44 didn't expect that much of it :) low mem and all Oct 24 10:50:57 i will engage some beagle boards eventually for it instead Oct 24 10:57:33 johnx: any noticable difference? Oct 24 10:59:33 running aptitude to install things...it actually does feel a little better Oct 24 10:59:35 k Oct 24 10:59:40 not sure if that's confirmation bias :P Oct 24 10:59:45 i have no idea either Oct 24 10:59:56 we'll need to time some stuff I guess Oct 24 11:01:00 i wonder if there's even glibc benchmarks, heh Oct 24 11:01:22 well, we can test stuff higher up that's heavy on libm Oct 24 11:01:39 true Oct 24 11:02:50 apt-* is linked against libm Oct 24 11:02:59 maybe it was actually faster O_o Oct 24 11:05:29 what else is there.. cairo? Oct 24 11:05:36 lots of stuff Oct 24 11:05:43 ldd /usr/bin/* | less Oct 24 11:05:48 /libm Oct 24 11:06:07 python :) Oct 24 11:07:01 X Oct 24 11:07:15 hehe Oct 24 11:07:37 * Stskeeps glances at prelik Oct 24 11:07:39 and midori Oct 24 11:07:39 prelink Oct 24 11:10:11 i'm going to recompile cairo too and see if that makes a difference Oct 24 11:10:39 (and some of the dependancies that might like it) Oct 24 11:14:08 hm: http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=14496 Oct 24 11:15:41 interesting :) Oct 24 11:15:53 Drivers for what? Oct 24 11:15:58 Does TI have a wifi chipset? Oct 24 11:16:24 that's a really good question Oct 24 11:16:27 yes Oct 24 11:16:56 google wilink Oct 24 11:17:16 i think i saw it in android source Oct 24 11:46:14 Hello. Is there some kind of lock on files created with an editor like PyGTKEditor that prevent the permissions from being changed? Oct 24 11:46:25 I created a python file called Hello.py the I open the X Terminal do a ls -l and see that the file is 644 and owned by User. I try chmod 777 on it but it remains 644. Funny thing is if i do chmod 111 the the permissions become ---------. Oct 24 11:49:06 I can take away priveleges but I can't add priveleges higher than what the file was originally created with. Oct 24 11:49:18 Are you root? Oct 24 11:49:53 is the file on your sd card? Oct 24 11:50:52 Hello GeneralAntilles:& johnx. I tried as both user and root. And the file is on the internal sd card. Oct 24 11:51:43 two things: file systems that are formatted as FAT can't really hold file permissions. Also, the internal card is mounted noexec Oct 24 11:52:26 How can I get around that. Use only internal memory? Oct 24 11:53:09 I'm trying to execute a Python file by just typing the file name at the shell prompt. Oct 24 11:53:24 just use the internal memory Oct 24 11:53:45 that's the easiest way Oct 24 11:53:57 there are other solutions, but I don't think they're necessary Oct 24 11:54:00 Is there a way t change the "noexec" mount of the internal card? Oct 24 11:54:06 andre___, EXCUUUUSEEE MEEEE :P Oct 24 11:54:06 of course Oct 24 11:54:19 mount -o remount,exec /media/mmc2 Oct 24 11:55:07 GeneralAntilles, i do, i do. Oct 24 11:55:13 Will that stick even after a power reset? And will it have any adverse effects? Oct 24 11:55:14 :-D Oct 24 11:55:14 andre___, guenther? Oct 24 11:55:26 no idea at all, shall I call him? Oct 24 11:55:30 TokyoDan, no adverse effects. it won't stick Oct 24 11:55:38 you'll have to go and change some scripts I guess Oct 24 11:55:41 Doesn't he have a quota or something? :P Oct 24 11:56:12 Thanks johnx. I guess I'll take your advice and use the internal memory. Oct 24 11:56:36 GeneralAntilles, no idea, last time i spoke with him was two weeks ago and he was still busy understanding new stuff Oct 24 11:57:03 if you want to be able to type: my-program.py and have it run you should put it in /usr/bin after you're done editing it anyways Oct 24 11:57:09 The lynch-pin people on all my pet projects are going missing. :( Oct 24 11:57:15 First guenther, now jott. . . . Oct 24 11:57:15 Johnx, is that a comma or a period between remount and exec? Oct 24 11:57:22 comma Oct 24 11:58:31 Thanks again for your help. I've been pissing around for an hour trying to change the permission of that file. Oct 24 11:58:50 blame MS for a backwards filesystem :) Oct 24 11:59:26 When are we going to get a compatible filesystem that isn't absolute shit? Oct 24 12:00:00 when MS dies off or is forced to interoperate (as it dies off) Oct 24 12:01:54 Well I've been learning a lot about the N810 and refreshing my long lost knowledge of UNIX thanks to you guys here and on ITT. Oct 24 12:02:45 Just getting back into programming vi Python after a 15 year absence. Oct 24 12:03:07 you were doing python 15 years ago? Oct 24 12:03:27 very early in the game :) Oct 24 12:03:52 via, johnx. :P Oct 24 12:03:59 ah Oct 24 12:04:38 Not Python, other languages. Python is all new to me. Oct 24 12:05:27 various assembly langs, basic, C, smalltalk. Oct 24 12:07:55 That just cracks me up that turning on the screen to display that stupid banner about the wallwart wastes more power than would be saved by unplugging it. Oct 24 12:15:28 Back via n810/pidgin Oct 24 12:17:11 GeneralAntilles: Are you sure that an idle charger doesn't waste any power? Pretty hard to believe. Oct 24 12:17:29 X-Fade, check out the bug report...let me find the number Oct 24 12:17:41 xM5x tested it Oct 24 12:18:03 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2285#c10 Oct 24 12:20:27 The final comment asserts that the message uses more power than the 264 & 609 microA measured. Or is the 609 microA for "Adapter #2" when the thing wakes up Oct 24 12:20:57 Two different chargers Oct 24 12:20:59 Both idle Oct 24 12:21:02 Johnx, where did you say i should put python scripts after editing? And why? Oct 24 12:22:43 GeneralAntilles: So where's the measurement to back up the assertion? It seems odd to carefully measure two idle chargers (with an enormous difference in idle current) but then just *say* the tablet's message uses more energy; without any figure. Oct 24 12:22:44 TokyoDan1, in /usr/bin because that's in your $PATH Oct 24 12:22:56 So that is 14 milliamp hours wasted per day? Oct 24 12:23:27 The detailed numbers are on itT. Oct 24 12:23:58 GAN800: then a link to the post needs to be added to the bug report ;-) Oct 24 12:24:10 For my next trick, I've got some eggs I can show you how to suck Oct 24 12:25:53 Jaffa, what's the point? The message isn't ever going away anyway. Oct 24 12:26:14 Then what's the point of the bug? Oct 24 12:26:21 That makes sense johnx. Oct 24 12:26:48 Jaffa, I can't just let idiocy like that go down without any objection. Oct 24 12:26:55 Either it's a realistic attempt to change the behaviour, especially if the reasoning behind it is empirically provable as faulty, or it's just noise in Bugzilla to act as a rant. Oct 24 12:27:32 Well, it's a legislative issue, apparentlt Oct 24 12:27:44 Really? In what region? Oct 24 12:27:45 So it's out of Nokia's hands. Oct 24 12:28:18 Let me guess. California ;) Oct 24 12:28:44 I don't know specifics, but so says a Nokia employee. Oct 24 12:29:00 EU, apparently. Oct 24 12:29:05 Bollocks Oct 24 12:29:32 From Europe? I'd expect it. . . . Oct 24 12:29:44 My brand new non-Nokia phone doesn't do anything like that, manufactured within the EU; sold by an EU-based company and sold within the EU to an EU citizen. Oct 24 12:29:56 GAN800: You read too much of the _Daily Mail_ or the _Daily Express_. Oct 24 12:30:14 Could be a more general pro-green sort of deal Oct 24 12:30:37 Neither, actually Oct 24 12:31:14 But with the baffling sorts of directions politics takes over there Oct 24 12:31:43 heh Oct 24 12:31:48 You're also beginning to sound like Karel with his "all Europeans are bending over to let Islam shaft them" (or somesuch) Oct 24 12:32:06 * GAN800 shrugs Oct 24 12:32:19 Whatever, the banner's stupid and needs to go away Oct 24 12:32:54 I don't care if it draws as much power as my computer, my devices don't get to tell me what to do. Oct 24 12:32:56 * X-Fade has other problems to worry about. This is just a stupid waste of time ;) Oct 24 12:33:13 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6481969.stm - for example Oct 24 12:33:54 well it's easy to imagine how the banner came to life Oct 24 12:34:46 some green delegation comes to meet $bigcompany, waves furiously hands and complans that $bigcompany isn't doing enough for enviroiment Oct 24 12:34:59 $bigcompany boss promisest to do more Oct 24 12:35:25 ..and passes the message down "do something to make us look more enviroimental" Oct 24 12:41:48 * GeneralAntilles needs to get moving on killing the old wiki. Oct 24 12:42:02 X-Fade, can you figure out what you want the redirect pages to look like? Oct 24 12:42:16 Then I'll take your template and fill them all out. Oct 24 12:42:41 GeneralAntilles: What redirects? Oct 24 12:43:02 For the popular pages on the old wiki to the new wiki. Oct 24 12:43:16 http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Kill_the_old_wiki Oct 24 12:43:26 Will somebody educate this guy about Red Pill already? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=236302&postcount=91 Oct 24 12:43:54 hi is it possible to create fiasco image from n810 after update? Oct 24 12:43:56 GeneralAntilles: Do you need a page for that? Why not just do an actual redirect? Oct 24 12:44:21 That's the plan, but I wasn't sure on the specifics Oct 24 12:46:27 I think you can create redirect folders for them. Oct 24 12:49:58 X-Fade, redirection seems to only be to other wiki articles Oct 24 12:50:38 You can do it to urls too, I think. Oct 24 12:51:01 Seems like an http redirect would be cleaner Oct 24 12:51:12 It can do that. Oct 24 12:51:23 Midgard terrifies me. :( Oct 24 12:51:43 Let me see if I can find the option ;) Oct 24 12:54:54 Or we can do it via Apache rewrite rules? Oct 24 12:56:00 I dunno, that's why I'm asking you. :P I just know I want page a to point to page b. Oct 24 12:57:08 dneary, are you satisfied with the current list of copies and redirects? Oct 24 12:58:07 GAN800: Just give me a list with: Oct 24 12:58:10 RewriteRule ^/community/wiki/blablablapagehere http://wiki.maemo.org/blablapagehere Oct 24 12:58:28 Should be pretty straight forward. Oct 24 12:59:05 I need a couple more people to compare the lists and then we can do it. Oct 24 12:59:29 Ok, well I can setup the apache server to do the redirects. Oct 24 13:00:11 Though I wonder how many pages on the site are linking to the old wiki. Oct 24 13:00:33 That doesn't matter as they will get redirected ? Oct 24 13:00:54 Well, not every page is getting a redirect Oct 24 13:01:13 No, but we can make a catch-all one. Oct 24 13:05:18 GAN800: The one I added to last week? Oct 24 13:07:00 Yeah Oct 24 13:10:26 johnx: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/cairo/libpixman-1-0_0.10.0-2_armel.deb , http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/cairo/libcairo2_1.6.4-6_armel.deb Oct 24 13:11:06 Stskeeps, great! I'll install those and give midori a try Oct 24 13:12:13 johnx: dromaeo.com before and after? Oct 24 13:13:23 * Stskeeps is really bad at noticing performance differences himself Oct 24 13:13:33 suihkulokki, to see if cairo will affect js performance much? or should I switch back to a non-vfp glibc first? Oct 24 13:13:53 I'll switch back to non-vfp everything for baseline Oct 24 13:13:56 couple minutes... Oct 24 13:24:38 GAN800: About the usage of wrong sections: I've asked Ed if he can implement a rule to force all "wrong" sections to user/other in the autobuilder. Oct 24 13:25:14 GAN800: I'll find out if we can do that easily and after that will write up a proposal for moving forward. Oct 24 13:25:19 Graham flipped a shit last time that was suggested. Oct 24 13:26:15 Hehe, we talked with him at the summit. Oct 24 13:27:03 I think Jaffa and I can talk with him if that is the case. Oct 24 13:27:12 Honestly, I'd rather see it implemented either as a simple warning (or maybe a complete built-refusal at the autobuilder level) and handle the section enforcement at the Application manager level. Oct 24 13:27:38 Well, the warning will come as soon as we have a list ;) Oct 24 13:27:45 Of course. Oct 24 13:28:19 Indeed, isn't it the App Mgr's job to ignore sections, rather than making the autobuilder move them? Oct 24 13:28:35 So we might want to get a preliminary list over the weekend. Oct 24 13:28:50 That just encourages people to get sniffy about the autobuilder. Have it as a warning, but then we make App Mgr only show the standard (and i18nable) sections Oct 24 13:28:55 X-Fade: agreed Oct 24 13:29:22 Jaffa: But there is my main issue: Oct 24 13:29:48 If we are going for the subsections, do we want to create all subsections beforehand. Oct 24 13:29:53 Ah. True. Oct 24 13:30:03 * GeneralAntilles hates categorization so much. Oct 24 13:30:09 Or do we want to allow people to create _sub_sections themselves ;) Oct 24 13:30:17 That's a more specific case of the problem I just thought of: changing the sections without redeploying Oct 24 13:30:52 I was looking for inspiration on the types of sections that might be useful Oct 24 13:31:06 it's interesting to see the sorts of systems other people use Oct 24 13:31:07 http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/ Oct 24 13:31:10 I'm relatively happy with arbitrary subsections, as long as they are named after the package, rather than some arbitrary thing the developer thinks other people should use Oct 24 13:31:25 suihkulokki, ok, that site is just crashing debian's midori... Oct 24 13:31:27 about omap3 and better camera: user/imaging ? :) Oct 24 13:31:35 or http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=software.category&PartnerREF=&siteid=1 Oct 24 13:31:41 Multimedia? Oct 24 13:31:54 Video's multimedia; pics aren't. Oct 24 13:33:02 Where would GIMP, or MyPaint go? Oct 24 13:34:10 It might be a good thing to write a description for all categorie with what type of applications should be put there. Oct 24 13:34:23 * Jaffa finds Ubuntu's menu structure quite close to how I (manually) organise my Windows start menu: Oct 24 13:34:30 What about user/system? Oct 24 13:34:43 Nokia uses it for osso-software-version Oct 24 13:35:02 Would something like a rotation-support metapackage go there or Support? Oct 24 13:35:13 Accessories, Games, Graphics, Internet(/Networking), Office, Programming, Sound & Video, System(/System Tools). Oct 24 13:35:30 "Support" sounds useless to me. But I've not looked at the rationale recently. Oct 24 13:35:42 GeneralAntilles, I vote "System" for that Oct 24 13:35:59 rotation-support is user/system - it's something the user installs once and never accesses as an application Oct 24 13:36:04 Jaffa: Support can be help documentation, language support etc? Oct 24 13:36:28 hi Oct 24 13:36:39 http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html has the list of categories for the freedesktop.org menu spec Oct 24 13:36:44 Currently, OpenAFS, krb5, and libillumination0 are in user/support Oct 24 13:37:09 Mek: Interesting. Oct 24 13:37:38 X-Fade: "Documentation" or "Help" would seem better. Language support for the OS, is an interesting question. But for a particular app it should be something like "user/multimedia/Canola", "Package: canola-language-pack-ru" (or something) Oct 24 13:38:02 Mek: ta. Oct 24 13:38:07 Yeah, I like those :) Oct 24 13:38:09 Jaffa: Rule one: Never _ever_ capitalize ;) Oct 24 13:38:22 hola Oct 24 13:39:57 X-Fade: If subsections are used to package together all the Canola crap, etc. how can we handle the *display* of the sub-section being possibly different to the key, then? Oct 24 13:40:16 Jaffa: Localization. Oct 24 13:40:54 Jaffa: So the 'technical english' term is used for the packager. And the AM shows it localized? Oct 24 13:41:12 Ye-es. But in the specific Canola example, the system's not going to be able to have l10n for 'canola' before installing some Canola-related package. Oct 24 13:41:45 X-Fade: Or are you envisaging sub-sections for *not* grouping together the multi-package app stuff? Oct 24 13:42:05 Jaffa: Well, I'm not sure about that. Oct 24 13:42:16 It all depends on how we can transform the AM. Oct 24 13:42:39 This whole mess would be better if the AM displayed it better. Oct 24 13:42:51 I wonder if we'll be able to talk m-vo into tossing in a few minor changes to make the categories view mildly bearable. Oct 24 13:42:59 But still. Oct 24 13:43:08 X-Fade: ah :) Oct 24 13:43:12 GeneralAntilles: I have talked with mvo about that in the past. Oct 24 13:43:39 I'd like to see at least one of my improved views implemented Oct 24 13:43:40 GeneralAntilles: He was willing to give some people access to the svn as long as they worked in a separate branch. Oct 24 13:43:44 But I doubt he has time on that. Oct 24 13:43:50 s/on/for/ Oct 24 13:43:51 GeneralAntilles meant: But I doubt he has time for that. Oct 24 13:44:10 GeneralAntilles: Correct, he doesn't have the time. But does want to patch if a patch is ready. Oct 24 13:44:12 X-Fade, I've yet to get anybody to step up for that so far. :\ Oct 24 13:44:17 Patches should work, as long as a) they get accepted; b) they don't duplicate work he's already doing Oct 24 13:44:34 lardman and I started discussing having time for it. Oct 24 13:44:43 Really wish we knew something about what sort of direction Fremantle will be taking. . . . Oct 24 13:44:52 GeneralAntilles: I'm no gtk wizard, I'm afraid ;) Oct 24 13:44:53 Last weekend's room rearrangement took about 1.5 days longer than the 1 day I allocated, though Oct 24 13:44:58 GeneralAntilles: indeed. Oct 24 13:45:13 The existing UI's hardly a compelling finger experience (mmm, just make the buttons bigger) Oct 24 13:45:30 I like the old idea of a tag cloud Oct 24 13:45:54 Wish the list rendering were optimized Oct 24 13:45:56 If you've just got a device and are going to install something to play with it, what category has the most breadth Oct 24 13:46:02 Jaffa: And add a thumb scroll bar ;) Oct 24 13:46:06 GeneralAntilles: s/optimized/in any way sensible/ Oct 24 13:46:10 I still don't get why it needs to regenerate the whole damn list. Oct 24 13:46:11 X-Fade: :) Oct 24 13:46:23 why even have categories anyway Oct 24 13:46:30 Jaffa: Well you laugh, but things like that would help a lot ;) Oct 24 13:46:44 usually if i want to install something, i already know what it is called Oct 24 13:46:47 GeneralAntilles: Because it's a frontend, and isn't fully integrated into apt. So it doesn't know what packages have been installed when you install package `a'. Oct 24 13:46:54 MangoFusion: Effectively - at the moment - we don't. Oct 24 13:47:15 Personally, I like browsing. Oct 24 13:47:25 MangoFusion: There's a use case of "I want to install a video player, don't show me bible reading software"; or "I want a new game" Oct 24 13:47:26 But the "All" list is starting to get a bit big for that. Oct 24 13:47:45 i guess Oct 24 13:47:49 in any case Oct 24 13:47:58 would be nice if i could quickly see the description of an app Oct 24 13:48:08 I want some "New packages" and "Popular packages" buttons hooked into Downloads. Oct 24 13:48:20 most of the time it just lists an ambiguous name (if it does fit on the screen) Oct 24 13:48:36 MangoFusion: True, but you won't be able to do that with 'ALL' in a list of 500 entries or more ;) Oct 24 13:49:11 bah, i'll just let you guy's sort it out ;) Oct 24 13:50:16 So many ideas, too few people with the time and skills to implement them. Oct 24 13:51:10 Or inclination without, as you say, knowing what Nokia's plans are (there must be some) Oct 24 13:51:17 GeneralAntilles: I have the solution! Oct 24 13:51:34 GeneralAntilles: Make AM a Maemo 5 champion! Oct 24 13:51:36 Generally, software (including Maemo) improves over time. Why bother hurting ourselves now when Nokia might do it "for us" over then ext 9 moonths Oct 24 13:51:40 Ha Oct 24 13:51:50 Actually, that's not a bad idea Oct 24 13:51:50 The killer app we want Nokia to support! Oct 24 13:52:01 In fact, I think it's a reallt *good* idea. Oct 24 13:52:06 I was going to say "Tie rm_you to a desk and make him work 24/7 Clockwork Orange style?" Oct 24 13:53:00 GeneralAntilles, I'll get on that. I need a supply of Dr. Pepper and ... no that's about it Oct 24 13:53:40 * GeneralAntilles chains johnx to the floor behind rm_you Oct 24 13:53:46 Now you make sure he doesn't sleep. :P Oct 24 13:53:50 But actually, it would be worth a shot. Oct 24 13:54:04 X-Fade, yeah, I actually like that idea. Oct 24 13:54:09 Umgh Oct 24 13:54:13 If only to see Quim's reaction. Oct 24 13:54:14 Indeed. As a community we want to explore the available apps and have a nice gateway for it. Oct 24 13:54:34 AbiWord. Do we have AbiWord already? Oct 24 13:54:39 In beta Oct 24 13:54:41 Not reliabilty Oct 24 14:16:14 BTW, when you say "explore the available apps" what do you mean? Oct 24 14:16:46 There are basically ~20-30 really usable/useful Maemo apps and pretty much everybody knows what these are Oct 24 14:17:21 new apps do sometimes appear in app manager with little or no announcement Oct 24 14:17:26 There are new things coming out Oct 24 14:17:47 GAN800, Jaffa: Interesting document: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/doc/mvo/system-model-2.txt Oct 24 14:18:07 It seems mvo is working on this too ;) Oct 24 14:19:36 X[FA Oct 24 14:19:39 Bah. Oct 24 14:19:45 X-Fade: some very interesting things in there :) Oct 24 14:20:01 Jaffa: Yeah, but that seems to be Harmattan stuff. Oct 24 14:20:06 indeed Oct 24 14:20:11 OS2020 Oct 24 14:20:25 Something like that :) Oct 24 14:22:14 'shot on sight' hehe Oct 24 14:23:08 At least that will give us something to talk about ;) Oct 24 14:24:43 suihkulokki, I'm running the sunspider benchmark instead. dromaeo was just crashing the browser Oct 24 14:46:48 RST38h, is there a list of those 20-30 apps? :) Oct 24 14:47:39 yeah, on any post where someone asks "What are the best appzzzz?" on itt... Oct 24 14:49:15 ~must-haves Oct 24 14:49:23 ~musthaves Oct 24 14:49:25 ~musthave Oct 24 14:49:26 methinks musthave is Maemo Mapper, FBReader, Vagalume, Canola, Numpty Physics, X-Chat, Evince, ScummVM, MyTube, MPlayer, Advanced Backlight, USBControl, Large Statusbar Clock, Transmission and much more. Also see http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Remarkable_community_projects Oct 24 14:49:47 amsn! Oct 24 14:50:14 GeneralAntilles, any reason not to create a rudimentary 'Notable apps' page? with a content from the referenced page? Oct 24 14:50:40 Because that's already the page? Oct 24 14:50:52 No sense duplicating it Oct 24 14:50:58 (and person that put fennec on 'release quality' list must be out of his/her mind :) Oct 24 14:51:06 You could create a redirect if you wanted, though. Oct 24 14:51:27 GAN800, not really something that a passer-by would find by title. And yeah, redirect I'll make. Oct 24 14:52:01 Add it to one of the front page templates, too, if you want. Oct 24 14:52:24 no anonymomus edits Oct 24 14:52:29 heh :) Oct 24 14:52:51 https Oct 24 14:55:08 well, tbh, I'd either reformat the page (to remove stuff that might confuse person not familiar with the organizational work behind it), or just create a new one with just a list of apps Oct 24 14:56:17 yacoob: yes, look at maemo.org in Downloads, under Popular and Stars Oct 24 15:04:54 johnx: any benefit? Oct 24 15:05:07 I'm doing the test with vfp libs installed right now Oct 24 15:05:15 Stskeeps: Dunno about wifi mac but bluetooth mac is easy as hell to change on N800 Oct 24 15:05:26 johnx: alright Oct 24 15:05:31 wifi mac is easy enough to change too :) Oct 24 15:05:39 qwerty12: ok, well, using ifconfig yes Oct 24 15:05:48 i was just wondering if MAC comes from CAL Oct 24 15:06:02 Stskeeps: Hmm, you can do it like that? I just run echo after bt-cal has done its stuff Oct 24 15:06:24 johnx: But does it work properly? I hear people have problems associating with APs? Oct 24 15:06:34 qwerty12: yeah, when we didn't have wlan-cal i ifconfiged Oct 24 15:06:47 qwerty12, in os2008 yes Oct 24 15:07:06 ah, ok. I just remember the "cracking" map application thread... Oct 24 15:07:24 or rather it doesn't work well in os2008 Oct 24 15:07:31 it does work well in a bare debian install Oct 24 15:07:44 it probably doesn't work all that well in deblet with nokia stuff running Oct 24 15:08:09 cal is equivalent to nvram on routers. Does nothing except store information and programs read it and do the dirty work Oct 24 15:09:55 Hmm, what is the codename for N800? Oct 24 15:09:58 does this osmo thing does a good job at being a pim? Oct 24 15:10:36 Ahh, Nokia Gagarin Oct 24 15:10:51 yacoob: if they fixed some pixel and not variable width/heights, it would be good on tablet Oct 24 15:12:06 need to give it a try then, once I get my nokia back Oct 24 15:12:20 unless it doesn't sound the alarms when asleep? Oct 24 15:12:44 'lo Oct 24 15:13:52 yacoob: patches.. :P Oct 24 15:15:36 lo lbt Oct 24 15:17:15 grrr...re-running in performance mode so that it's actually a valid comparison... Oct 24 15:18:00 im wondering if i should make a daemon listening on charger events to enable performance mode / ondemand Oct 24 15:18:22 Stskeeps: get in touch with lcuk Oct 24 15:18:56 qwerty12: i know how to do it :P Oct 24 15:19:10 Stskeeps: i thought about that too, that feature would be nice for advanced backlight for example Oct 24 15:19:13 Stskeeps: I don't doubt it but if its already been done... Oct 24 15:19:28 qwerty12: it's a dbus listener at most :P Oct 24 15:20:09 slider for different modes and an option to switch to performance when charging Oct 24 15:21:26 Somebody should write an adv battery instead. Oct 24 15:22:14 Yes, making advanced-backloght the default "let's make it do everything better" is feeping creaturism. Oct 24 15:23:06 GAN800: i still wonder what austin che will make of his BME crackin' Oct 24 15:23:20 An adv-battery shouldn't be all that difficult to implement. Oct 24 15:23:53 GAN800: moontiger was working on a generic HAL battery applet at some point Oct 24 15:24:40 adv-battery... what, does that make the tablet cry if its running low on power? Oct 24 15:25:05 or maybe its a big funky battery image Oct 24 15:25:36 "Keep the charger in, you dumbwit. It's more practical" Oct 24 15:25:47 maybe adv-power would be a better name Oct 24 15:26:30 Stskeeps, vfp makes midori a little slower at javascript it seems :/ Oct 24 15:27:25 johnx: k Oct 24 15:27:46 let me post results Oct 24 15:27:59 it's kinda hard to argue - was it with or without cache? Oct 24 15:28:12 Stskeeps: work... hi, it's been a while!! Oct 24 15:28:27 Stskeeps, it was rerun 5 times each Oct 24 15:28:31 performance mode both times Oct 24 15:29:02 lbt: indeed Oct 24 15:29:06 johnx: alright Oct 24 15:30:37 http://www2.webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider-results.html?{%223d-cube%22:[3635,3693,4060,3501,3420],%223d-morph%22:[8314,8433,8570,8936,9002],%223d-raytrace%22:[4526,4229,4177,4306,4466],%22access-binary-trees%22:[1510,1384,1477,1438,1515],%22access-fannkuch%22:[1401,1389,1381,1400,1451],%22access-nbody%22:[6509,6717,6341,6053,5946],%22access-nsieve%22:[955,914,933,881,907],%22bitops-3bit-bits-in-byte%22:[581,468,553,436,456] Oct 24 15:30:37 ,%22bitops-bits-in-byte%22:[524,572,596,639,525],%22bitops-bitwise-and%22:[1399,2285,1394,1361,1375],%22bitops-nsieve-bits%22:[1921,1845,2079,1801,1812],%22controlflow-recursive%22:[574,589,544,613,544],%22crypto-aes%22:[1377,1420,1432,1452,1395],%22crypto-md5%22:[1669,1824,1833,1762,1832],%22crypto-sha1%22:[1795,1759,1763,1733,1749],%22date-format-tofte%22:[4822,4757,4831,4722,4850],%22date-format-xparb%22:[4401,4526,4468,4427,4493 Oct 24 15:30:38 ],%22math-cordic%22:[3549,3615,3334,3605,3106],%22math-partial-sums%22:[8309,8553,8611,8429,8379],%22math-spectral-norm%22:[2123,2197,2017,2006,2216],%22regexp-dna%22:[3843,3889,3913,3837,3907],%22string-base64%22:[3832,3760,3711,3787,3924],%22string-fasta%22:[4378,4393,4325,4288,4359],%22string-tagcloud%22:[4437,4421,4571,4426,4429],%22string-unpack-code%22:[5942,6057,6178,6181,6080],%22string-validate-input%22:[4433,4471,4482,4514 Oct 24 15:30:45 ,4447]} Oct 24 15:30:45 jesus crist Oct 24 15:30:47 eep Oct 24 15:30:49 sorry O_o Oct 24 15:30:50 tinyurl Oct 24 15:30:50 Pastebin, please! Oct 24 15:30:51 aieeeee! Oct 24 15:30:54 OMG Oct 24 15:30:55 RUN Oct 24 15:31:13 sorry, didn't realize ;-_- Oct 24 15:31:23 i just got assaulted by an url :( Oct 24 15:31:25 ;) Oct 24 15:32:39 huh Oct 24 15:32:45 this is w/ vfp: http://tinyurl.com/55lhhc Oct 24 15:32:57 does the friggin url contain the entire page encoded Oct 24 15:33:03 yes Oct 24 15:33:09 apparently :/ Oct 24 15:33:26 I just did a ctrl+l, ctrl+c, ctrl+p so I never saw the whole thing Oct 24 15:33:36 without vfp: http://tinyurl.com/6d3e9x Oct 24 15:34:31 mm, confidence intervals may indicate they're similar maybe Oct 24 15:34:57 interestingly a zaurus running angstrom completes the tests faster but with only 64MB it's a much worse real-world browsing experience Oct 24 15:38:05 mm Oct 24 15:42:51 back later Oct 24 15:43:23 johnx: what browser is that? Oct 24 15:43:58 johnx: be aware that sunspider has a bug in it which will hurt Gecko performance Oct 24 15:44:04 I don't think it has been fixed yet Oct 24 15:44:09 "bug" Oct 24 15:44:20 "deliberately placed flag that everyone ignores except gecko" :) Oct 24 15:44:48 granted, that's only in one test Oct 24 15:58:18 hrm, does anyone know how i can kill a misbehaving desktop widget? Oct 24 15:58:39 i think omweather is causing my n800 to be unable to finish booting Oct 24 15:59:06 where are the startup variables for the widgets? Oct 24 15:59:26 GeneralAntilles: i kinda don't disagree with qgil's view on things really, from nokia's pov, so i'm not sure i would be able to argue, - except contribute directions Oct 24 16:00:01 l7: for omweather, put a file called noomweather.txt in your internal memory card and omweather wont start Oct 24 16:00:04 just looking closer at the mails now Oct 24 16:02:21 <`Mace> wtf is going on with this goddamn key Oct 24 16:02:38 GeneralAntilles: but he's really saying it quite clearly, which may be the death of maemo eventually, "We have 0 plans of moving Maemo into that direction." Oct 24 16:03:32 which means nokia sees maemo as firmware for their tablets, and they provide a sdk for that device, and that's that Oct 24 16:03:54 hrm, trying that now Oct 24 16:03:59 like a typical hardware/engineering company Oct 24 16:04:35 and try to play nice and support the community around it Oct 24 16:24:24 qwerty12: does anything need to be in noomweather.txt? Oct 24 16:24:33 l7: no Oct 24 16:24:56 hmm, i put the file in /media/mmc2/ Oct 24 16:25:03 doesn't seem to have changed anything Oct 24 16:25:11 :/ Oct 24 16:25:29 it looks like the UI won't load completely Oct 24 16:25:44 i get the sidebar on the left side, but it's blank Oct 24 16:29:03 i don't suppose there's a safe mode you can boot into that would allow you to uninstall problematic stuff? Oct 24 16:32:53 bleh, i guess i'll just reflash Oct 24 16:33:03 hrm, where's that wiki article on reflashing? Oct 24 16:34:33 hrm, is there a mirror of the maemo wiki? Oct 24 16:34:58 is there a way to make a full backup of my device so i can flash a different image on it and then restore it? Oct 24 16:41:52 hrm, setting up booting from SD seems like the best solution for that Oct 24 17:00:09 wtf @ google Oct 24 17:00:23 i search for upstart moblin Oct 24 17:00:34 and it searches for upstart goblin instead without telling me Oct 24 17:00:56 Yu-Gi-Oh! Oct 24 17:01:19 God, I remember my brother watching that shit... Oct 24 17:03:04 qwerty12: lol Oct 24 17:04:04 yes, your "brother".. Oct 24 17:04:04 ;) Oct 24 17:04:36 Erm, oops, I've been caught out Oct 24 17:04:49 hehe Oct 24 17:04:57 * Stskeeps ponders idly on a quest Oct 24 17:06:18 i have 25 episodes of dragon ball in my tablet Oct 24 17:06:49 that is a nice series Oct 24 17:07:24 qwerty12: am i insane if im pondering if i can debootstrap based on http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/? Oct 24 17:07:56 Stskeeps: And end up with some weird, uncompleted maemo clone? :P Oct 24 17:08:16 qwerty12: well, also to prove a point Oct 24 17:08:30 that it may not be possible to construct maemo from the stuff they released Oct 24 17:09:35 what bits are missing? Oct 24 17:10:21 * Stskeeps should really stop caring and code instead Oct 24 17:11:40 Let me guess, the community wants maemo to run on other devices too and think it'd make sense and would fight against google's android, but nokia wants it just on their own tablets and still cling desperately to symbian+s60? Oct 24 17:11:53 yes, that's about right Oct 24 17:12:50 They should just make their execs use the tablet Oct 24 17:13:08 before I had used the nit I thought using Linux on a mobile device was pure insanity Oct 24 17:16:39 I don't care who maemo works with Oct 24 17:16:52 just as long as its me Oct 24 17:18:10 hrm, file manager has a link to backup/restore in it's tools menu Oct 24 17:18:15 doesn't really seem to make sense Oct 24 17:21:49 * Jaffa bingles free wifi at Wetherspoons before _Hamlet_ Oct 24 17:23:13 David Tennant & Patrick Stewart Shakespearey goodness Oct 24 17:29:23 Dr Who and Jean Luke Picard in Hamlet? =) Oct 24 17:29:40 Do tardis and Enterprise make appearance? Oct 24 17:33:55 is there any way i can make the curser visible at any time other than startup Oct 24 17:39:43 ShadowJK_: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-October/035376.html Oct 24 17:41:55 ShadowJK_: and that kinda has made me give up on the maemo platform as anything i'd invest time in developing for Oct 24 17:42:06 tablet hw, principle, sure, but not as worthwhile platform Oct 24 17:43:48 Well, their idea isn't bad per se Oct 24 17:44:24 it's just that with their elephant in a porcelain store approach to opensauce they dont exactly attract much goodwill :) Oct 24 17:44:41 indeed - contributing back and such, but keeping the changes hidden until last minute :P Oct 24 17:45:02 oh that's not unlike android Oct 24 17:45:22 but google had shitloads of karma to blow away when they began Oct 24 17:55:46 Hi ! Oct 24 17:57:20 hi Khertan_n810 Oct 24 17:57:34 hi Stskeeps Oct 24 17:59:53 * Khertan_n810 is still finding a way to display nicely a list of alarm .. Oct 24 18:00:08 s/finding/searching Oct 24 18:00:35 * Stskeeps should vacuum the house Oct 24 18:01:04 gf coming back tonight after 3 weeks gone Oct 24 18:01:59 héhé Oct 24 18:10:13 Khertan: What are the requirements? Oct 24 18:10:28 Khertan: Do you show by day, week, month? What is your granularity? Oct 24 18:14:32 Oct 24, 1929: Wall St crash Oct 24 18:16:20 heh Oct 24 18:16:40 now that would be irony Oct 24 18:17:13 ~lart microsoft outlook Oct 24 18:17:13 * infobot pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps microsoft outlook Oct 24 18:17:25 * lcuk feels a bit better Oct 24 18:17:27 ~lart microsoft outlook Oct 24 18:17:27 * infobot whips microsoft outlook with a wet and grimy noodle just because Oct 24 18:18:23 why use it? Oct 24 18:18:44 thats the point i dont Oct 24 18:19:01 but after windows update it came back Oct 24 18:19:22 KILL Oct 24 18:19:58 :) now you see my angst Oct 24 18:20:27 am i the only one thankful its friday? Oct 24 18:20:27 why using window ? Oct 24 18:20:46 hi lcuk :) Oct 24 18:20:51 * RST38h is ok about other days too Oct 24 18:20:52 lcuk, 'ell no :p. i get a week off :D Oct 24 18:20:52 heh evening khertan - for about 3 reasons Oct 24 18:21:06 you jammy b'strd Oct 24 18:21:17 RST38h: for alarm ? Oct 24 18:21:22 just datetime Oct 24 18:22:43 Khertan: what I really want to know is whether you want to show a single alarm only, or all the alarms for some time period Oct 24 18:22:54 depending on which one it is, the ui will be different Oct 24 18:23:32 or just the list of all alarms known to the system Oct 24 18:24:21 ah all alarms for an events Oct 24 18:24:36 if it is just one alarm, then use huge letters centered at the screen and simulate those flip-over displays is possible Oct 24 18:24:59 lcuk: jammy b'strd ?? Oct 24 18:25:06 all alarms globally, use a time-sorted vertical list Oct 24 18:25:34 if it is alarms-by day, use vertical list for days and divide each list item vertically by hour Oct 24 18:25:37 heh khertan, it was aimed at qwerty12_N800, i dont know how to pronounce it without sounding northen Oct 24 18:25:49 lol Oct 24 18:25:55 how many alarms are people expecting? Oct 24 18:25:57 in fact in next futur beautifull better calendar ever seen in the universe Oct 24 18:26:04 an event can have Oct 24 18:26:14 multiple alarms Oct 24 18:26:24 btw, check how Papyrus does it - you may get some ideas Oct 24 18:26:30 on a single event Oct 24 18:26:31 Papyrus is very popular Oct 24 18:26:40 and? those are reminders beforehand and shouldnt be part of the typical views? Oct 24 18:26:40 papyrus ? Oct 24 18:26:47 anymore than a dot somewhere at least Oct 24 18:27:08 they found how to include alarm in papyrus by a genetic way ? Oct 24 18:27:13 "in 3 minutes the alarm will go off to remind you that in 5 minutes an alarm will be going off to remind you that a task should have been finished 5 minutes before" Oct 24 18:27:45 just show the tasks and events - and if those tasks have reminder bings they dont need disyplaying on the generic list Oct 24 18:27:45 hum ... i could add this option for you lcuk :) Oct 24 18:27:50 \o Oct 24 18:27:55 o/ Oct 24 18:28:05 this is for editing it :) Oct 24 18:28:08 Khertan: http://www.smartphone.net/software_detail.asp?id=1085 Oct 24 18:28:20 not displaying it in the generic list Oct 24 18:28:21 how many reminders do you need? Oct 24 18:28:45 sometimes 7 or 8 :) Oct 24 18:28:56 fix the problem upstream Oct 24 18:29:18 it s not a problem Oct 24 18:29:26 so for 1 event you need 7 reminders? Oct 24 18:29:56 yep example ... one event starting monday and finishing friday Oct 24 18:30:22 you can need event each day at 9h Oct 24 18:30:42 :) Oct 24 18:31:03 thats a recurring event with 5 instances though, different to reminders for a single event Oct 24 18:32:14 Khertan: use colors Oct 24 18:32:25 not reccuring ... it a single event wich is 5 day long Oct 24 18:32:32 lcuk: I think he needs an event that lasts multiple days Oct 24 18:32:46 i know the problem, outlook does it Oct 24 18:32:54 Khertan: Ok, let us say you have a vertical list by day. Oct 24 18:33:07 no no i just need a way to display thing nicely to edit the reminder list of one event Oct 24 18:33:23 Khertan: To denote such a long event, you use a certain color to start it on monday and finish it some time on friday Oct 24 18:33:50 And let the user drag those boundaries with his finger Oct 24 18:34:02 hum i ll take my car ... Oct 24 18:34:08 see you tomorrow Oct 24 18:34:13 and thx for idea Oct 24 18:34:59 Khertan_n810, have a nice evening Oct 24 18:36:41 bye Oct 24 18:38:36 RST38h, have you ever been just dropping off to sleep and had such cool idea that you knew you had to open eyes again and write it down Oct 24 18:40:11 lcuk: I have Oct 24 18:40:20 lcuk: Always went back to sleep though =) Oct 24 18:40:27 heh, well i had one of the moments last night Oct 24 18:40:37 did you write it down? Oct 24 18:40:50 was it about banana being smaller than its skin? Oct 24 18:40:56 so i reached over for my 810, opened my eyes and slid the keyboard out and almost blinded my fscking self - i almost threw it across the room Oct 24 18:41:08 advanced backlight Oct 24 18:41:10 :P Oct 24 18:41:17 yep. advanced blacklight it is. Oct 24 18:41:22 normally i leave it on minimum (thx to abl) Oct 24 18:41:28 and in liqbase cos its dark Oct 24 18:41:37 but this time it was on max and brightwhite Oct 24 18:41:59 like the flash of a thousand suns Oct 24 18:42:08 yeah sts Oct 24 18:42:20 have you seen the flash that liqbase does when you take a photo? Oct 24 18:42:33 nop Oct 24 18:42:36 Does Nokia use LEDs or the traditional backlight? Oct 24 18:42:52 heh, its very useful, people know the pic was took and carry on moving again Oct 24 18:43:17 i dunno rst, it was too bright last night Oct 24 18:43:29 i want my nokia to know and respect what time it is and the fact i put it to sleep Oct 24 18:43:36 and it should never wake me up like that again Oct 24 18:43:47 lcuk: it should also talk back to you! Oct 24 18:43:48 if advanced backlight only supported using the light sensor :( Oct 24 18:44:05 my sensor is covered over all the time Oct 24 18:44:26 lcuk: More importantly though, do you still remember what that idea was? Oct 24 18:44:37 yes actually :) Oct 24 18:44:53 N1 (original) is the lower one with the sticker http://liqbase.net/double_tiny.JPG Oct 24 18:45:32 rst, yes i needed to make a note of it for that very reason Oct 24 18:49:30 are we having fun yet? Oct 24 18:49:35 is wd40 safe to clean the screen with? Oct 24 18:49:42 i am always having fun Oct 24 18:49:46 wd40?? Oct 24 18:49:47 apart from when im not Oct 24 18:50:03 yes l7, cleansing and lubricating Oct 24 18:50:10 always? Oct 24 18:50:59 NO Oct 24 18:51:10 ok pb, not always before this year i spent a couple of years moping about (mainly linked to .net) but now i have my mojo Oct 24 18:51:30 its nice to find your mojo :) Oct 24 18:51:34 you can just as well use olive oil to clean your screen =) Oct 24 18:51:57 just give it a good lick Oct 24 18:52:11 not the base though Oct 24 18:52:20 thats what she said! Oct 24 18:52:31 heh Oct 24 18:53:30 hrm, does the n800 care which distro created a .swap file? Oct 24 18:53:55 swap formatting is all the same Oct 24 18:54:02 shouldn't do, a swap file is blank Oct 24 18:54:06 i have a .swap file on my internal SD card from my last install and i wonder if i should erase it and start over Oct 24 18:54:07 so no, I would think not Oct 24 18:54:10 oh Oct 24 18:54:18 pb, this year ive gotten to do what ive been trying to do for years :) Oct 24 18:54:27 well that saves me some trouble Oct 24 18:54:40 l7: i doubt they changed the swap fileformat, and if so, swapon should complain Oct 24 18:54:53 lcuk, eradicate your northen accent!?! Oct 24 18:55:00 +r Oct 24 18:55:12 BULLE_: yeah, no complaints, it just picks it up and uses it if it's there i guess Oct 24 18:55:27 that happens everytime i stop talking surprisingly Oct 24 18:55:27 Its nice what you can work on things people appreciate Oct 24 18:56:24 lcuk, lol, i'm just messing around. if i'm too hyped and my speech reflects that, my northern accent comes out too :p Oct 24 18:56:26 :) Oct 24 18:56:50 hrm, swapspace says "?SWAPSPACE2" when i do head or tail of it Oct 24 18:56:56 ive sussed things anyway, and when my next video comes out ill be talkin from the kitchen - i can speak without wakin tracy up Oct 24 18:57:16 whats up qwerty, do you get your drivers license this year? Now that your 16? Oct 24 18:57:26 is it possible to take a look at what's written in swap? Oct 24 18:58:10 hey pb, I can only get when i'm 17 :( but i can apply for one now Oct 24 18:58:25 Is that the law? 17? Oct 24 18:58:44 you can get learner permit in US at 15 Oct 24 18:58:53 95% sure it is :( Oct 24 19:00:00 well, i can apply for a licence to drive a moped at 16 :D Oct 24 19:03:20 I Picture a tricked out moped with n800 mounted in front Oct 24 19:15:08 * Mousey huggles his new working tablet Oct 24 19:15:48 * Mousey huggles tablet Oct 24 19:15:49 Mousey, oi, stop touching me Oct 24 19:15:58 * Mousey fondles tablet Oct 24 19:16:05 * Mousey touches tablet liberally Oct 24 19:16:09 ^_^ Oct 24 19:16:12 lol Oct 24 19:16:52 upgrading from singtel firmware -> diablo went without a problem, turns out i'm an illiterate dummy, who can't read documentation and missed a VITAL SWITCH Oct 24 19:17:22 * RST38h does not understand what Mousey is talking about Oct 24 19:17:38 Singtel firmware? Vital switches? Have you tried sonic screwdriver? Oct 24 19:17:49 for those that missed it, here's the wallpaper from the singtel firmware.. (many people weren't impressed).. http://ross154.net/~mprov/singtel_background.png Oct 24 19:18:24 lul, wtf Oct 24 19:18:51 it was an adventure Oct 24 19:19:01 i got it back from palco with a singtel firmware Oct 24 19:19:34 then, because i'm a dumbass, i couldn't upgrade it to diablo Oct 24 19:19:36 thats classy Oct 24 19:19:38 thot i had a problem Oct 24 19:19:42 * lcuk throws up in his mouth a little Oct 24 19:19:43 but no, i'm just a tard Oct 24 19:20:30 are you waiting for someone to disagree? :P Oct 24 19:20:32 i installed liqbase! Oct 24 19:20:37 but then i don't get it Oct 24 19:20:43 \o/ w000t, you aren't a tard :D Oct 24 19:20:45 lcuk: no no, i KNOW i'm a dummy =) Oct 24 19:21:01 what do you mean you dont get it Oct 24 19:21:41 well i played with it for all of 3 minutes Oct 24 19:21:48 oh, i did notice the resolution was different Oct 24 19:22:00 640x640. that was neat, i changed it Oct 24 19:22:07 i guess this means it runs on other things Oct 24 19:22:20 anyone got any idea whats happening to this? I have a script that converts some spanish characters and it works in ssh on maemo but not in xterm. If I pass público it will convert to p'ublico in ssh in xterm it comes out as p blico Oct 24 19:22:24 no, but it shows that resolution doesn't matter :) Oct 24 19:22:56 that's about as far as i got Oct 24 19:23:47 oh, speaking of remapping things, i was messing around in /usr/share/X11/xkb/nokia_vdr/rx-44, tryna remap the sterling to a | but i forgot what the keyword for | is =( Oct 24 19:23:49 its just an easy way to get info into the device and review it again Oct 24 19:24:53 lcuk: like a notebook? like xournal but cooler? Oct 24 19:25:17 like famous formulas that start out on napkins? Oct 24 19:25:35 heh, yes Oct 24 19:25:44 i thought | was Bar, but my tablet tells me i'm WRONG Oct 24 19:25:50 i have a very bad memory Oct 24 19:25:51 Tab is Tab tho Oct 24 19:25:59 i have to write things down to remember them Oct 24 19:26:18 but i got so sick of turning the page and they were gone Oct 24 19:27:08 now they arent :) and i can start to puull them together (carefully of course) and make use of them Oct 24 19:27:47 if that use expands to taking a picture and writing an instant postcard to someone (with a nice new camera from nokia) then WOW! Oct 24 19:27:57 lcuk: ok, that's cool, i'll try using it for that, cuz i use xournal like that all the time Oct 24 19:28:00 if its like writing on the back of a polaroid Oct 24 19:28:04 seriuosly, I put "público" in a file, if I am in ssh and cat the file I see "público" if I go to xterm and cat same file I see "p blico" Oct 24 19:28:09 wtf? Oct 24 19:28:37 font? Oct 24 19:28:48 penguinbait, remove the l! Oct 24 19:28:53 or just extended 8bit Oct 24 19:29:02 * Mousey votes font Oct 24 19:29:15 cd p?blico Oct 24 19:30:06 l! ?? Oct 24 19:30:22 yer, púbico Oct 24 19:31:10 -1 qwerty - thats double minus lame Oct 24 19:31:26 :P Oct 24 19:31:42 lcuk, it's a southern thing, you wouldn't understand :p Oct 24 19:31:49 I am a tad slow today :) Oct 24 19:32:37 is it cheating by the way if i make a twitter clone but simply post my irc lines? Oct 24 19:32:56 penguinbait, i'm using lucida console as my font in osso-xterm and i see ú fine after running cat Oct 24 19:33:24 * lcuk whistles quietly Oct 24 19:34:02 I changed mine to lucida console and it still fails Oct 24 19:34:27 lcuk, kinda my fault for making it go in /usr/share/fonts :p. nice font though, thanks for the pointer via liqbase :p Oct 24 19:34:28 bbl Oct 24 19:34:46 lol Oct 24 19:34:48 penguinbait, what's your encoding setting in osso-xterm? Oct 24 19:34:49 cya later Oct 24 19:34:57 bye lcuk for now Oct 24 19:35:03 unicode Oct 24 19:35:12 none of this multicode stuff! Oct 24 19:35:21 all characters ONE SINGLE CODE! Oct 24 19:35:32 penguinbait, same here though i'm using bash as my shell Oct 24 19:35:46 hmmm? Oct 24 19:36:26 zap put bash3 in extras. dunno if that is a reason i'm seeing the ú though Oct 24 19:36:37 if I change my encoding to latin it works? Oct 24 19:37:03 IT'S A BUG! Oct 24 19:41:47 FYI qwerty, its not bash Oct 24 19:42:04 hi Oct 24 19:42:46 hi! Oct 24 19:47:48 penguinbait, then it's your tablet of course! Oct 24 20:00:27 where to get kismet for maemo? Oct 24 20:00:33 it seems that it disappeared Oct 24 20:02:17 ...recent expansion of authority claimed by the Border Patrol to stop and search individuals up to 100 miles from any US border... Oct 24 20:02:29 Wonderful Oct 24 20:03:17 hehe Oct 24 20:03:29 This should obviously be extended to the whole territory and they should get rights to confiscate property as well Oct 24 20:03:31 I know why I wouldnt travel there Oct 24 20:03:55 * RST38h is pretty sure .DE has got some amusing laws on its own though Oct 24 20:04:02 not yet Oct 24 20:04:20 or be sure you are not islamistic Oct 24 20:05:26 traveling by airplane is now out of sign too, with the naked scanners Oct 24 20:09:42 Air travel has become pretty outlandish now, but I really want to see the whole thing Oct 24 20:10:40 i need a commodore emulator! Oct 24 20:10:42 http://www.bardstaleonline.com/BT1/Downloads.asp Oct 24 20:11:07 Random strip searches at the streets. Equipment confiscations. Incarceration for copyright violations. Cute street advertisements for DHS (as in "Beware: Your Family May Be Harboring A Terrorist Right Now!") Oct 24 20:12:15 hm yes we had another strange story here Oct 24 20:12:31 Half the kitchen aisle in department stores should also be fenced off, with all the "sensitive" chemicals (such as baking soda) sold by buyer's ID only Oct 24 20:12:33 islamistic terrorist are using child porn picture for communication Oct 24 20:12:40 time to build a buildmachine Oct 24 20:12:46 woglinde: + they can wank at it! =) Oct 24 20:13:01 is there a virtual machine image I can leech to boot up and just crosscompile applications? Oct 24 20:13:09 or do I have to build it myself like everyone else? Oct 24 20:13:11 bugblue hm yes Oct 24 20:13:14 It is called Maemo SDK Oct 24 20:13:16 but dont ask me where Oct 24 20:13:40 are there any docs on maybe doing some firmware hacking so that the Hildon UI is never loaded and load some custom app instead? Oct 24 20:13:45 BugBlue, http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ Oct 24 20:13:48 http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ Oct 24 20:14:13 ha nice! Oct 24 20:14:15 thanks! Oct 24 20:14:27 mariorz: boot manager Oct 24 20:14:41 firmware hacking *sigh* Oct 24 20:14:47 BugBlue, you'll be glad to know kismet svn has driver for n800 wifi chip. not brilliant by any standards but i was able to run for 24h... Oct 24 20:15:05 bootmenu.garage.maemo.org Oct 24 20:15:12 qwerty12_N800: I know it does have.. I did run kismet on my n810 for a while... until I updated Oct 24 20:15:23 cool, thanks eveyrone Oct 24 20:15:27 qwerty12 it will be better in the future with the new opensource driver Oct 24 20:15:56 BugBlue, same here :D but i got my build of aircrack-ng back :) Oct 24 20:16:03 woglinde, yeah :) Oct 24 20:16:41 qwerty12_N800: where did you get it? Oct 24 20:16:47 ah you're own build Oct 24 20:16:48 some one knows how to use a htc blue angel as inet modem with the n810? Oct 24 20:16:59 qwerty12_N800, i uploaded it on itt :) Oct 24 20:17:00 bluetooth pairing works Oct 24 20:17:07 woglinde: bluetooth pan? Oct 24 20:17:10 woglinde, bluetooth-pan Oct 24 20:17:14 yes Oct 24 20:17:18 but I tried Oct 24 20:17:23 but it shows nothing Oct 24 20:17:33 argh.. there is no vmware player for mac os X Oct 24 20:17:34 I installed maemo-pan Oct 24 20:17:46 but what I have to configure than? Oct 24 20:17:57 time for virtualbox Oct 24 20:18:23 1 clic download and I didn't have to sell my soul Oct 24 20:18:37 woglinde, can you add it as a phone with the phone control panel applet? Oct 24 20:18:44 vmware fusion... well worth the money imo Oct 24 20:18:46 qwerty12 nope Oct 24 20:18:51 virtualbox isn't that bad though Oct 24 20:18:56 qwerty12 otherwise I would not ask Oct 24 20:19:40 virtualbox works on my linux workstation Oct 24 20:19:50 if it doesn't work I convert it to xen and run it somewhere on the internet :P Oct 24 20:19:58 [I do like linux] Oct 24 20:20:17 woglinde, hmm, brb Oct 24 20:21:31 hm I will look up how bt-pan is working Oct 24 20:21:51 woglinde, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=191297 Oct 24 20:22:17 thanks Oct 24 20:22:31 bt-pan created some sort of wireless network ... you just join the network and the phone is your router [that's the theory, practice will differ with every implementation ofcourse] Oct 24 20:23:15 hm qwerty whats this configeditor that is shown there? Oct 24 20:23:47 hm ah Oct 24 20:23:56 problem is pda detection Oct 24 20:24:02 woglinde, gconf-editor. ed bartosh's work but only for chinook so i sent it to diablo extras-devel Oct 24 20:24:27 bt suckz Oct 24 20:24:33 with all this protocols around Oct 24 21:45:01 Does anybody know what shells are used in the normal and root accounts of N810 running Diablo and where are the environment variables such as $PATH set? Oct 24 21:49:48 busybox Oct 24 21:50:32 env Oct 24 21:50:36 ist your friend Oct 24 21:50:40 for question2 Oct 24 21:51:01 where not what Oct 24 21:51:24 grep PATH in all of /etc might be more helpful for figuring out #2 Oct 24 21:51:50 it also depends on the method you are using to get root wrt environment variables Oct 24 21:51:58 oh sorry Oct 24 21:52:09 misunderstood the question Oct 24 21:56:17 Thanks. I'm just trying to run an executable python script in my local directory /home/user/MyDocs/Hello.py. Oct 24 21:57:00 But I get command not found. I added /home/user/MyDocs to /etc/profile $PATH but that had no effect. Oct 24 21:57:58 did you reboot? Oct 24 21:58:11 could be some other script overrides the PATH setting later Oct 24 21:58:29 I set my $PATH in ~/.ashrc Oct 24 21:58:33 or was that ~/.profile? Oct 24 21:58:37 one of those Oct 24 21:58:41 no, just restarted the terminal window and did a echo $PATH to see if the directory was added and it was. Oct 24 21:59:08 good Oct 24 21:59:19 it was in /etc/profile Oct 24 22:11:07 Hi, am I the only one that is annoyed to have to accept twice a file when receiving it through bluetooth? Oct 24 22:15:34 didn't notice that Oct 24 22:15:49 but I'm annoyed that I have to uncheck the 'open file' checkbox when accepting a file over bluetooth Oct 24 22:15:57 and it's tiny and not thumb-friendly Oct 24 22:16:03 yeah, that too Oct 24 22:16:39 it should probably store/load the latest selected option Oct 24 23:36:39 ah, sftp is cool Oct 24 23:36:54 being able to sftp in and drop stuff off on my n800 remotely :) Oct 24 23:37:03 let's see an ipod do that! Oct 24 23:37:52 l7 it can Oct 24 23:37:56 not that i'd want to Oct 24 23:38:10 with jailbreak? Oct 24 23:38:25 who doesn't jailbreak a iphone/ipod touch? Oct 24 23:38:37 heh Oct 24 23:38:40 also, you can't put dual 32gb SDHC cards in a ipod Oct 24 23:38:46 yup Oct 24 23:38:54 i want an n800 now Oct 24 23:39:01 for external storage for my n810 ^_^ Oct 24 23:39:07 heh Oct 24 23:39:19 at least there are 16gb microSD cards now Oct 24 23:39:30 can you still buy an iphone w/o activating it these days? Oct 24 23:39:49 16gb microsds seem rather pricey Oct 24 23:40:27 Hello, all! Oct 24 23:40:43 hiya Oct 24 23:43:32 In maemo, I want to use some python script, it told me "ImportError: No module named py_compile" Oct 24 23:43:48 What am I missing Oct 24 23:51:43 Ok, I install python-dev, it's ok now Oct 24 23:55:56 Silly question of the day: has anyone tried to install another (distribution) on their tablet, say Ã…ngström, or Ubuntu MID, or anything else? Oct 25 00:01:10 hrm, can't say i have Oct 25 00:01:27 ah editing /etc/systemui/systemui.xml to enable reboot is a great tool Oct 25 00:05:07 uh oh, what's this device mode prompt? Oct 25 00:15:02 Bilaw, of course. There is some preliminery support in Angstrom. Also check out Deblet and mojo.handhelds.org (ubuntu) Oct 25 00:16:45 would "instant LOL cat creator" be a killer app? Oct 25 00:17:05 does it come with a cat? Oct 25 00:17:39 im just thinking of random little apps for the camera :) Oct 25 00:17:44 cheers, johnx! Oct 25 00:17:47 heh Oct 25 00:18:56 man, mplayer's ability to play flvs from the net never ceases to impress me Oct 25 00:33:48 lcuk: good idea! Oct 25 00:33:59 would work better on a n800 with its swivel camera Oct 25 00:34:13 or even better on a n900 with a non-crappy camera Oct 25 00:34:40 (1) snap a picture (2) type a caption (3) upload to flickr Oct 25 00:34:46 can someone help me try to make my n800 grab data from a serial gps? (garmin etrex legend) Oct 25 00:34:51 me needs to get a cat Oct 25 00:35:17 mgedmin, :) keep the info as individual pieces and more can be done with it as discovered Oct 25 00:35:18 I installed the usbserial and pl2303 drivers and the usb-serial cable seems to be working Oct 25 00:35:34 but maemo-mapper isn't getting anywhere Oct 25 00:36:05 could it be a protocol issue? Oct 25 00:36:22 if you 'cat /dev/ttyUSB42' in an xterm, do you see data from the GPS? Oct 25 00:36:31 no Oct 25 00:36:33 does the data look like text, or binary? Oct 25 00:36:40 no data Oct 25 00:37:06 maybe my GPS isn't working properly? Oct 25 00:37:15 dunno Oct 25 00:37:21 never had a serial gps Oct 25 00:37:38 maybe you need to send some command to it to wake it up Oct 25 00:38:03 otoh the serial cable has a couple of lines for detecting that the other end is listening Oct 25 00:40:48 I don't know if this is valid considering I'm using usb-serial Oct 25 00:41:06 but anyway it seems my gps is in a semi-locked state and I can't get it out of it Oct 25 00:42:31 it's not responding to button presses :( only to turn it on and then it gets to satellite screen... it shows satellites (not as much as I'd like) but won't respond to buttons Oct 25 00:43:24 maybe I didn't use it for too long :( Oct 25 02:03:37 Please, please, somebody kick this guy's ass: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24205&page=10 Oct 25 02:04:51 eh? Oct 25 02:04:52 what lib is he talking about? Oct 25 02:05:09 can someone just fix it and push it? Oct 25 02:07:44 johnx, probably. Oct 25 02:07:48 He's kind of an idiot, though. Oct 25 02:08:18 don't let him get to you Oct 25 02:08:44 It's irritating when he's spreading misinformation to newbies. Oct 25 02:10:24 http://www.zdez.org/ speaks of his personality somewhat Oct 25 02:10:44 who formats their entire site in

? Oct 25 02:11:52 A person who files bugs like this: http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3560 Oct 25 02:12:33 to his credit, he didn't use all caps for everything Oct 25 02:12:55 Bizarre: http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/2008/10/future-of-nokia-maemo-and-internet.html Oct 25 02:15:39 hmm, nokia netbooks? Oct 25 02:16:40 The whole point of the tablets is that they're pocketable devices that can do a whole lot more than some smartphone. Oct 25 02:16:54 yeah, i don't see the point of turning it into a netbook Oct 25 02:17:23 that seems to defeat the purpose of the maemo platform, touch screen technology, etc. Oct 25 02:17:58 I hope maemo is nokia's secret project to eventually throw out s60 Oct 25 02:18:09 why wouldn't people just by an eee pc instead? Oct 25 02:18:44 maemo on a non-touchscreen hi-res device would be kind of grim Oct 25 02:19:17 why would you want to compete in the netbook market anyway with so much competition and such thin margins? Oct 25 02:19:47 an ARM netbook might give you more margin to play with Oct 25 02:19:58 battery life? Oct 25 02:20:25 still it seems like the netbook form factor has plenty of OSes Oct 25 02:20:38 waaaay too many linux distros already, yes Oct 25 02:20:45 ubuntu's netbook remix looks pretty cool Oct 25 02:20:49 nobody really wants battery life anyway Oct 25 02:21:02 nobody *buys* based on battery life Oct 25 02:21:08 later on they find out they need it though :) Oct 25 02:21:18 eh, decent battery life with good portability would be good Oct 25 02:21:19 heh Oct 25 02:21:26 I mean, when centrino came everybody was hyped about battery life, but then they bought the ones with crippled batteries anyway Oct 25 02:21:32 well, we buy based on battery life, but we don't count Oct 25 02:21:38 the netbooks are all about portability for most people Oct 25 02:21:51 And now with atom everybody is hyped about battery life, but still most of them sold are the ones with yet weaker batteries, lasting the "standard" 2.5 hours... Oct 25 02:22:00 ew Oct 25 02:22:15 i guess it depends on your usage patterns Oct 25 02:22:18 yeah Oct 25 02:22:20 * mgedmin thinks compiz is cooler than ubuntu's netbook remix Oct 25 02:22:29 if you take it home and charge it every night it should be fine Oct 25 02:22:36 why do you guys want so much battery life anyway? Oct 25 02:22:59 Ideally from a cellphone I'd want it to last 8-12 hours on a charge. Mine doesn't ;p Oct 25 02:23:39 I'd want something similar from a tablet and a laptop probably Oct 25 02:24:26 I think N810 gets close... Oct 25 02:24:47 in my pseudobenchmark of leaving things streaming 192kbit/s shoutcast Oct 25 02:27:20 how long does it last on that stream? Oct 25 02:30:19 dunno, I fell asleep Oct 25 02:30:30 somewhere between 4 and 6 hours I think Oct 25 02:30:46 my phone does 2-3 hours Oct 25 02:31:03 that's pretty good Oct 25 02:31:31 the battery life of these tablets seems longer than just about any other comparable device Oct 25 02:33:21 Yeah Oct 25 02:34:35 hmm, i wonder if i should get an n810 Oct 25 02:34:42 i really want that keyboard :) Oct 25 02:35:33 I wish my N800 had more battery life... it suck a LOT compared to Palms or iPaqs Oct 25 02:35:45 eh? Oct 25 02:35:49 though I understand the limitations of those Oct 25 02:36:05 I can run my Treo650 flat and still have tons of battery life on the N800 Oct 25 02:36:13 how's the n800's battery life compare to the n810? Oct 25 02:36:41 Exactly the same. Oct 25 02:36:57 hmm interesting Oct 25 02:37:13 i guess the addition of GPS circuitry doesn't draw much Oct 25 02:37:26 Only if it's on. Oct 25 02:38:03 I have a lended iPaq that keeps working for weeks after I charged it in sleep mode, even though the battery is probably rubbish (for an old model that was disabled for too long) Oct 25 02:38:10 is there a program that will tell you how healthy your battery is? Oct 25 02:38:41 by the way, I'm trying to make a serial gps work with my N800, but I'm not getting it right Oct 25 02:39:09 Sadly, no, l7. Oct 25 02:39:34 ah well Oct 25 02:39:45 it always charges up to 10 hours idle time Oct 25 02:39:58 but it doesn't seem like the same 10 hours it used to last Oct 25 02:39:58 All the data points are there Oct 25 02:40:10 somebody just has to figure out what they all mean and do the necessary calculations. Oct 25 02:43:26 oh Oct 25 02:43:39 is there a command line tool that will show them? Oct 25 02:44:49 where's the data? Oct 25 02:45:56 retu Oct 25 02:46:41 how do you get it out Oct 25 02:47:06 http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/kcbatt/ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 25 02:59:57 2008