**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 27 02:59:57 2008 Oct 27 04:11:25 night Oct 27 06:26:59 moo all Oct 27 06:27:12 hi RST38h Oct 27 06:36:35 hey qwerty Oct 27 06:36:51 Is transmission still not available from extras? Oct 27 06:37:04 RST38h: Nah, I promoted it yesterday :) Oct 27 06:37:28 hurrah! Oct 27 06:37:47 now, only need to get new canola and abiword... Oct 27 06:37:49 You should remove pipeline's version if you have it installed first though Oct 27 06:37:56 abiword still borderline usable? Oct 27 06:38:00 ok Oct 27 06:43:51 * qwerty12 gets back to minor h-a-m hacking. The grid view patch works well except for the stupid border that is defined in the theme. Oct 27 06:47:02 One of you should get with m-vo Oct 27 06:47:44 Heh, not me. I didn't know until yesterday that you could use if statements like that in C++ after fucking around with && for about an hour Oct 27 06:50:05 I'll concentrate on seeing if I can put of an prototype of the osv-c application manager. Oct 27 06:50:13 s/of/out Oct 27 06:55:51 Screenshots! Screenshot! Oct 27 07:07:24 * qwerty12 goes back into blue pill mode after a couple of weeks :/ Oct 27 07:07:32 RST38h: Screenshot of the grid view? Oct 27 07:08:22 morning Oct 27 07:08:30 morning solmumaha Oct 27 07:09:04 got a nice offer, friend wants to sell me his n810 for 100 e Oct 27 07:09:47 Hehe, nice. I once got offered a N810 for N800 + £30 Oct 27 07:10:52 i would really like a sun readable screen Oct 27 07:11:05 That's retarded, you can't update your repos manually in blue pill mode... Time to fix that. Oct 27 07:11:16 but hate losing two card slots Oct 27 07:11:16 Heh, yeah, N800 screen is horrible in sunlight :( Oct 27 07:11:30 yes, it's a mirror Oct 27 07:11:40 qwerty12, yes you can. Oct 27 07:11:46 You just have to be in one of the package views. Oct 27 07:11:56 But I filed a bug about it if you want to provide a patch. Oct 27 07:12:09 Ok, my bad. I said it's been a long while since I've been in blue pill :P Oct 27 07:13:45 Ah, t_s_o filled that bug Oct 27 07:13:48 No wonder I couldn't find it. Oct 27 07:13:56 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3286 Oct 27 07:14:05 I guess yerga already patched it Oct 27 07:14:08 if you just want to use his. ;) Oct 27 07:14:11 Yep, great! Oct 27 07:15:48 Done. I've also enabled the dependencies tab to be shown all the time ; in blue pill and red pill mode. Oct 27 07:21:26 Done. Any other requests that people want shifting from red pill mode into blue pill mode? Oct 27 07:32:10 qwerty12: what is the main difference between those modes? Oct 27 07:33:02 qwerty12, can you backport m-vo's recent modifications to the Fremantle branch re Red Pill? Oct 27 07:33:10 i.e., no mode retention Oct 27 07:33:25 Show magic and show non-user/ off by default. Oct 27 07:33:45 oilinki3: red pill lets you install anything (including things outside the user/ section). It can also be an easy way for people to go into a reboot loop. But red pill can offer more useful information. Oct 27 07:33:57 GeneralAntilles: Ah, that one is easy. Oct 27 07:34:22 Should be just changing 2 lines in settings.cc Oct 27 07:35:04 qwerty12: ah. i have used the red pill, but always wondered what is blue pill.. i suppose blue pill is standard mode? Oct 27 07:35:12 yep Oct 27 07:38:37 I'll backport "Make red-pill mode non-permanent by default.". But I was going to cry as I was doing it until I saw: "* src/settings.cc (load_settings): Set red_pill_mode to false unless it is permanent." Oct 27 08:05:06 Carman themes are a lot heavier than Canola themes. . . . Oct 27 08:05:53 yeah, I had to upgrade from a belt to a pair of suspenders after installing a few Oct 27 08:06:02 and re-enforce the pockets of my jeans Oct 27 08:06:41 come on Oct 27 08:06:44 that was funny Oct 27 08:06:48 no. Oct 27 08:06:52 lol Oct 27 08:07:07 =) Oct 27 08:07:43 Little weak. Oct 27 08:07:56 * Proteous hangs his head in shame Oct 27 08:44:00 morning all Oct 27 08:50:40 hmm, how to list the dependencies of a deb thats not in the repos... Oct 27 08:52:58 ah, dpkg --info Oct 27 08:54:44 beMorning, all Oct 27 08:54:57 xx Oct 27 08:56:18 ehlo, hrw, Jaffa Oct 27 08:56:41 ho Oct 27 09:09:59 * lcuk has been at work for 9 minutes and already warcraft talk has reduced my brain capacity by half Oct 27 09:10:24 I'm sorry, lcuk. Oct 27 09:10:58 you should be \@/ i am actually here to do stuff but i can feel my life force eeping out of the back of my head Oct 27 09:11:08 bbl Oct 27 09:12:58 <_marcell_> camel_liu: ping Oct 27 09:13:37 * RST38h had a WoW fan attack a few days ago. Found lots of weird things. Oct 27 09:16:09 sadly, I to have been playing WoW again Oct 27 09:16:26 new hunter pets sucked me back in Oct 27 09:16:32 EVIL BLIZZARD Oct 27 09:17:07 It's amazing that Blizzard has built such an empire out of some that completely lacks gameplay. Oct 27 09:17:21 it's just a fun world to be in Oct 27 09:17:22 Judging from what I heard it won't be long until you get to kill Jesus in WoW Oct 27 09:17:26 lol Oct 27 09:17:38 RST38h: at least he'd stay dead for 3 days Oct 27 09:17:39 i wouldn't say completely, but it's pretty near Oct 27 09:17:59 And the magi. And the maiden. And probably that donkey too, although he will be a minor boss. Oct 27 09:18:36 I played for about 2 months back when it first came out Oct 27 09:18:39 would that require multiple 40 character raid groups to beat? Oct 27 09:18:58 I might've played more if all my friends hadn't transfered to another server right after I started playing. Oct 27 09:19:08 Bizarre game Oct 27 09:20:40 the endgame is just 40 men nerd ballet repeated week after week... Oct 27 09:21:22 lol Oct 27 09:22:04 hrmf, not even running ping will stop the wifi from going down on timeout :( Oct 27 09:22:38 and the video call app can still not hold a setting past reboot... Oct 27 09:23:05 XChat holds timeout. Oct 27 09:27:19 X-Fade, ping. Oct 27 10:03:02 GeneralAntilles: pong Oct 27 10:03:25 X-Fade, can you put fixing the Council blog comments at the very bottom of your very long list of todos? Oct 27 10:03:32 and do you want a bug for that? Oct 27 10:05:49 GeneralAntilles: Can you file a bug for that, so I don't forget ;) Oct 27 10:06:14 http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-243672.html <- intel has a foot in mouth moment ;) Oct 27 10:07:52 The Foot in Mouth Disease Oct 27 10:08:45 X-Fade, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3829 Oct 27 10:08:47 Thanks! :) Oct 27 10:09:04 RST38h, is that, like, with cattle? ;) Oct 27 10:09:21 yes, with marketing cattle Oct 27 10:14:09 the kind that make dollar and euro sounds ;) Oct 27 10:15:17 * Jaffa likes mvo's response on the idea of having App Mgr a fremantle start Oct 27 10:17:37 hmm? Oct 27 10:26:28 Jaffa, somebody should get with him about the community branch. Oct 27 10:26:40 Since you guys seem so gung-ho to get some real coding done. :D Oct 27 10:27:39 Who thinks sjgadsby changed his avatar because of the shirtless comments? Oct 27 10:28:54 * RST38h does not know what or who sjgadsby is Oct 27 10:30:00 You're kidding, right? Oct 27 10:30:27 http://maemo.org/profile/view/sjgadsby/ Oct 27 10:31:06 just being selective in memory allocation Oct 27 10:31:31 Ah. Maemo Bug Jar I know. Oct 27 10:32:44 hm remindes me to file a bug about signle sign on with garage and bugtracker accounts Oct 27 10:33:47 woglinde, don't. Oct 27 10:34:01 Please. Oct 27 10:34:06 It's already on the appropriate radars Oct 27 10:34:14 hehe Oct 27 10:34:18 has been there for months though... Oct 27 10:34:20 And there is already a bug for it too? Oct 27 10:34:27 how many seconds I have to wait? Oct 27 10:34:33 hi x-fade .) Oct 27 10:34:38 X-Fade, 90% sure Oct 27 10:34:42 woglinde: a nine-figure number ;) Oct 27 10:35:50 https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Single_sign-on Oct 27 10:35:55 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3340 Oct 27 10:36:10 The bug seems kinda unrelated Oct 27 10:38:39 GeneralAntilles: one idea for the community council work. would you be able to organize irc-meeting by application bassis. for example get the people who work with maemo-mapper together in irc in certain time so that others could also share their development ideas etc.? Oct 27 10:40:39 hm how do I tell scratchbox that it tells dpkg-buildpackage that it provides automake-1.9 Oct 27 10:41:34 woglinde: Build-depens on automake-1.9 ? Oct 27 10:41:42 *build-depends Oct 27 10:41:47 oilinki3, well, I suppose we could Oct 27 10:41:52 but I don't much see the point Oct 27 10:42:06 If you've got ideas, either hit the lists or go directly to the authors. Oct 27 10:42:19 Most of them can be reached through their Garage projects Oct 27 10:42:21 x-fade -> : Using Scratchbox tools to satisfy builddeps Oct 27 10:42:30 or file bugs on the Garage trackers Oct 27 10:43:09 GeneralAntilles: just wonderign if open brainstorming would be beneficial in that way. writing some ideas, which others can top-up or just kill Oct 27 10:43:25 but i guess that could be a bit messy in the irc. Oct 27 10:43:44 oilinki3: Don't you think that organizing such a meeting should be done by app author? Oct 27 10:43:51 ^ Oct 27 10:43:54 oilinki3: maybe file them as feature in bugzilla? Oct 27 10:44:06 If you want to do it, get with the authors and do it. Oct 27 10:44:07 or enhancement Oct 27 10:44:14 and that :) Oct 27 10:44:16 Nothing the council really needs to be involved in. Oct 27 10:44:35 well you may still want to put announcements at maemo.org Oct 27 10:44:37 RST38h: yes. better if it would be organised by the app author. Oct 27 10:44:44 but aside from that, not council's job Oct 27 10:44:51 aquatix, 3rd-party applications aren't tracked in Bugzilla yet. Oct 27 10:44:54 Is there any way to increase the watchdog timeout.. I'm getting hit by it too often :P Oct 27 10:45:04 aight Oct 27 10:45:07 * aquatix -> lunch Oct 27 10:47:07 _marcell_, ping. Oct 27 10:48:40 X-Fade, does that mean you ran through your whole todo list? :D Oct 27 10:51:12 GeneralAntilles: opinion of qgil's answer to my post? Oct 27 10:52:14 Stskeeps, positive and unsurprising. Oct 27 10:52:38 GeneralAntilles: No, but suddenly I knew what was wrong ;) Oct 27 10:52:58 GeneralAntilles: generally points a bit to Fremantle development has been in HAF+GTK, not anywhere else :P Oct 27 10:59:01 when im trying to do autogen.sh im getting error like " No package 'hildon-libs' found ". Oct 27 11:00:22 Oil <$60 hehe Oct 27 11:00:40 woowoo! just in time for me to pick up driving again :D Oct 27 11:00:45 kvk: tried apt-get install hildon-libs ? Oct 27 11:00:57 johnx: Not so fast, Nikkei down to 1982 level =) Oct 27 11:01:19 doesn't affect me. I don't invest in stock Oct 27 11:01:39 yeah, it's cause Yen is way up though Oct 27 11:01:45 rst yes I read this too Oct 27 11:02:04 but vw pushed up with 75% Oct 27 11:02:04 how to set HILDON_CFLAGS and HILDON_LIBS path to avoid the need to call pkg-config path?? Oct 27 11:02:40 johnx: it will probably have some effect sooner or later Oct 27 11:02:40 kvk whats wrong with pkg-config? Oct 27 11:02:50 RST38h, in fact it's a real nice time to get paid in Yen :) Oct 27 11:03:25 not knowing what pkg-config is, i suspect :P Oct 27 11:03:27 RST38h, i have tried that, but it couldn't get package Oct 27 11:03:44 johnx: grr! oh well, I am getting both rur and usd, form different sources... Oct 27 11:04:17 kvk: Do you know, by the way, that the whole autoconf stuff can be avoided? =) Oct 27 11:04:21 woglinde, it couldn't get hildon-libs package Oct 27 11:05:47 kvk: The Magic Wand is hidden in this tutorial: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial.html Oct 27 11:05:50 kvk when there are no hildon-libs, then there are no pkg-config stuff for it Oct 27 11:06:04 Notice that the first example does not require autoconf Oct 27 11:06:08 kvk so your manual method will fail too Oct 27 11:06:15 gcc -o maemo_hello maemo_hello.c `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0 hildon-1` -ansi -Wall `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0 hildon-1` Oct 27 11:06:19 RST38h, you're right though. That stock chart for the Nikkei doesn't look good at all. Everyone remember to buy Sony CD players and Toyota cars, ya hear? Oct 27 11:06:45 johnx: ...and Sony/Toyota themselves too... Oct 27 11:07:22 isn't Sony the number one car maker in the world? or is GM still ahead by a little? Oct 27 11:07:40 johnx: I only know that the number one tire maker is LEGO Oct 27 11:07:51 :D Oct 27 11:07:58 They produce more car tires per year than all other makers combined Oct 27 11:08:13 Prolly applies to cars too... Oct 27 11:08:36 RST38h, inside scratchbox it is working fine but on the desktop it is throwing that error Oct 27 11:09:01 Toyota has been number one for a while. Oct 27 11:09:26 woglinde, then how to install hildon-libs package?? Oct 27 11:09:42 kvk scroll some lines back Oct 27 11:09:46 johnx: heh, so the issue is wether to work on stuff like deblet or work on nokia to make maemo more sane and open Oct 27 11:09:56 kvk: It is not supposed to work outside scratchbox Oct 27 11:09:56 the answer was given, but not from me Oct 27 11:10:09 Nokia! Nokia! Nokia! Oct 27 11:10:33 How are you gonna "work on Nokia" gentlemen? Oct 27 11:10:45 9 iron Oct 27 11:10:52 RST38h: help push decent plans and outline ways to go? :P Oct 27 11:10:55 Do I smell plastite? Oct 27 11:10:56 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: pong Oct 27 11:11:13 RST38h, frozen trout Oct 27 11:11:15 Sts: Nokia has completely different plans and goals than the Maemo community Oct 27 11:11:17 _marcell_, any word on getting the latest FIASCO images (RX-48, too) into tablet-dev? Oct 27 11:11:24 RST38h: well, maybe work on "Maemo" as such then Oct 27 11:11:37 johnx: You do know that Nokia's original logo included the Crazy Fish (tm)? Oct 27 11:12:09 the one to wallop their competition with, but I think they'll appreciate the irony Oct 27 11:12:09 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: not much. I have sent an other mail this morning nagging the responsilbe people once again. Oct 27 11:12:11 Sts: In the end, they have to sell hardware to general public Oct 27 11:12:45 RST38h: obviously, and that's possible still with having a good open base system Oct 27 11:12:45 That is what their main goal is. Your goals of making Maemo more open, basing it on Debian, replacing UI with generic window manager, etc etc have nothing to do with how Nokia makes money Oct 27 11:12:56 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: at least the winflasher has the correct images, so that can be used Oct 27 11:13:11 _marcell_, that's not an answer. :\ Oct 27 11:13:19 Er, the Windows flasher, that is. Oct 27 11:13:23 RST38h: oh, i didn't say replace UI with generic window manager, - i don't care what's above UI level Oct 27 11:13:35 <_marcell_> I know, and I completely agree with you. Oct 27 11:14:08 _marcell_, anything I can do? Oct 27 11:14:28 RST38h: and for open source community to get to a decent system for low power low storage/etc will take quite a while else Oct 27 11:14:55 and admittedly some things nokia have gotten right Oct 27 11:14:57 RST38h, this is platform level stuff, not UI stuff. Oct 27 11:15:12 More open platform benefits end users, anyway Oct 27 11:15:17 As it gives them access to more software. Oct 27 11:15:18 General: But they are really ok with whatever platform they have Oct 27 11:15:38 And they only want THEIR software to work right and be complete Oct 27 11:15:54 RST38h: being able to take apps they know from their other chinese shit device to more quality tablets, is a benefit too Oct 27 11:15:54 but the closer they align to upstream the less work they have to do Oct 27 11:16:22 Sts: Not really. More shitty apps - negative public opinion Oct 27 11:16:31 Sts: Do remember how Atari 2600 died Oct 27 11:16:31 lol Oct 27 11:16:53 I'm sure it's no fun wasting time re-integrating patches into gtk every time they pull a new upstream version to avoid becoming obsolete Oct 27 11:17:15 johnx: I think they consider their main body of platform work DONE and having to sync with the mainstream platform an extra work they do not have to do Oct 27 11:17:32 RST38h, and yet they're doing it. look at svn Oct 27 11:17:42 johnx: Isn't Nokia's GTK stuff completely public? Oct 27 11:17:58 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: I am not sure what could you do. Quim is already aware of the issue and he also started sending mails... I have no idea what is the problem with saying "go ahead" Oct 27 11:18:00 RST38h, it's public, but forked Oct 27 11:18:16 RST38h, you either have upstream gtk installed or Nokia's gtk installed Oct 27 11:18:48 johnx: Is there any solid technical reason for the fork? Oct 27 11:19:05 RST38h, now: no. 3 years ago: some thin reasons Oct 27 11:19:18 _marcell_, well, anyway, I'm going to start making a racket if it's not fixed reasonably soon. Oct 27 11:19:30 then at least GTK has to be merged with the mainstream Oct 27 11:19:46 This sounds like a reasonable and relatively cheap thing to do Oct 27 11:19:56 RST38h, then why are you arguing? Oct 27 11:20:04 But for the platform stuff (aka "Let us all use debian") I would not get hopes too high Oct 27 11:20:09 I think you're misunderstand our goals. Oct 27 11:20:11 General: see above Oct 27 11:20:34 RST38h, the goal isn't "use debian" it's "be more compatible with debian" Oct 27 11:20:59 johnx: Any top honcho from nokia will ask you "Why?" Oct 27 11:21:12 Reduce the software development overhead for Maemo Oct 27 11:21:23 Improve community relations Oct 27 11:21:36 making them able to devote more time on what really matters on Maemo Oct 27 11:21:41 Make a wider universe of applications available for Maemo. Oct 27 11:22:21 ^what they said^ Oct 27 11:22:39 GeneralAntilles: But realisticly, how many applications would be end-use ready without any change. Oct 27 11:22:48 - and by not restricting to hildon as well more people can have more use for the tablets Oct 27 11:22:52 GeneralAntilles: And not speaking about power users ;) Oct 27 11:23:01 X-Fade: possibly some of the ones in OE Oct 27 11:23:03 if someone wants to run a flash "today" windows mobile UI like thing, sure, let them Oct 27 11:23:07 the platform wills upport it Oct 27 11:23:10 Personally, I just want to install find-utils. :( Oct 27 11:23:40 Sure alignment with debian would be cool, but it is not a perfect solution for everything. Oct 27 11:23:49 debian has crappy categories too ;) Oct 27 11:23:53 X-Fade, well, it reduces the barrier to porting Oct 27 11:24:09 johnx: The answer will be "our current platform is good enough, won't be redoing it" Oct 27 11:24:19 RST38h, actually the answer was quite different Oct 27 11:24:30 They're already redoing a lot of Fremantle. Oct 27 11:24:35 And Debian is very desktop/server oriented. A mobile device is really a different target. Oct 27 11:24:48 i'm not saying "take all of debian", either Oct 27 11:24:53 re Oct 27 11:24:54 johnx: and what was it? was it "cool we are switching to debian tomorrow"? Oct 27 11:24:54 X-Fade, point well taken Oct 27 11:25:10 but yet they did it with maemo originally and look how it turned out? Oct 27 11:25:17 GeneralAntilles/X-Fade: mvo's getting involved in the debtags/section discussion on the "make the category list better" thread on -devel. Oct 27 11:25:20 RST38h, no, it was "we'll try to align with debian where it makes sense. bug us about specific problems you have." Oct 27 11:25:40 johnx: In other words, it was a polite version of what I suspected :) Oct 27 11:25:42 where can i find more info on how to use "dbus-send" for eg, activate a wifi connection on my n800 ? Oct 27 11:25:48 Running openoffice(for example) on omap3 might work, but if it is really desirable in it's current state.... Oct 27 11:25:56 johnx: "we will do stuff as long as it does not cost us" Oct 27 11:26:28 Hi all Oct 27 11:26:35 RST38h, that's all anyone is asking. Just some simple easy things that can only be done by Nokia Oct 27 11:26:38 Jaffa: Yeah, but I don't see the gain of debtags. Do I need to click on 'GPS', 'MAP', 'INTERNET' to get a group with maemo-mapper in it? :) Oct 27 11:26:59 RST38h, like keeping package names aligned with debian, etc Oct 27 11:27:01 X-Fade: you can click on any one of those Oct 27 11:27:04 Debtags is nice to describe an application, not for finding. Oct 27 11:27:08 debtags aren't a solution in and of themselves Oct 27 11:27:12 Need to have a nice interface on top. Oct 27 11:27:31 * lcuk has never seen the point of not being able to filter the list hitting "map" on the keyboard would filter to all map applicaitons no matter what category they are in Oct 27 11:27:49 lardman: Check the debtags interface for the debian repository. Not sure if that is the way you want to casually find applications. Oct 27 11:28:19 X-Fade: ok Oct 27 11:28:21 I am a youn French emplyee (and student too) I will start a projet on the new Nokia N810 but i have never program on tablet. Someone can help me to begin ? Thanks Oct 27 11:28:28 Ahaa, lcuk. Oct 27 11:28:35 vincenzo88: there's a huge pdf for development manuao :) Oct 27 11:28:36 Jaffa, put that patch on your list. Oct 27 11:28:36 manual Oct 27 11:29:07 http://maemo.org/development Oct 27 11:29:11 vincenzo88: what are you planning on developing? Oct 27 11:29:18 http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/ was what i found :P Oct 27 11:29:22 X-Fade: I still like subcategories Oct 27 11:29:47 johnx: think it would be worth anything trying to construct a debian maemo-like platform? Oct 27 11:29:54 lardman: Yes, me too. Although I guess you can fake them using debtags too. Oct 27 11:29:59 a small one for Proof of concept Oct 27 11:30:11 Thanks. I have to create a programm to displays video streams from camera IP Oct 27 11:30:27 Stskeeps, so debian based, but with maemo-gtk, busybox, etc? Oct 27 11:30:30 johnx: with busybox, maybe upstart, and all that stuff Oct 27 11:30:43 to indicate what issues there would b Oct 27 11:30:44 e Oct 27 11:30:50 vincenzo88: you could probably do it all with a scripting language Oct 27 11:31:14 vincenzo88: you might look at GStreamer, assuming it is able to decode the stream (mjpeg probably?) Oct 27 11:31:32 Yes Mjpeg Oct 27 11:31:36 vincenzo88: how you wrap the GStreamer elements is up to you - C or Python would be the best bets imo Oct 27 11:32:22 do you know any languages? Oct 27 11:32:37 C, C++ Oct 27 11:32:44 and Qt on Windows Oct 27 11:32:44 fine, go with C then Oct 27 11:32:49 johnx: i wonder how busybox is performance wise towards bash Oct 27 11:32:50 er Oct 27 11:32:50 dash Oct 27 11:32:56 Ok i will see that, thanks for your help Oct 27 11:33:04 there's example code at the urls above, show how to use gstreamer from within C and also the Hildon stuff Oct 27 11:33:22 vincenzo88: take a look for the camera app example code Oct 27 11:34:02 vincenzo88: who is the french company interested in maemo ? Oct 27 11:34:07 Ok thanks lardman Oct 27 11:34:27 A video security company (sorry for my english) Oct 27 11:34:52 vincenzo88: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_camera_api_bora.html is applicable Oct 27 11:35:03 does that exist for maemo 4.x? Oct 27 11:35:26 Ok great link ! Oct 27 11:35:45 https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/tags/maemo_4.1/maemo-examples/example_camera.c Oct 27 11:35:51 there's also an app which displays video over IP data iirc Oct 27 11:36:03 melmoth: thanks, couldn't find that one :) Oct 27 11:36:44 I will study this example code :} Oct 27 11:37:12 vincenzo88: if you are not familiar with gstreamer, you may want to read about it first. Oct 27 11:37:33 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/gstmjpg/ Oct 27 11:37:44 http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/html/index.html :) Oct 27 11:37:44 Yes i don't know Gstreamer before Oct 27 11:37:53 looks like it's already been done for you ;) Oct 27 11:39:37 and I was sure there was a stand alone app too, not just that cgi one Oct 27 11:42:05 lardman: this one? http://peekaboo.garage.maemo.org/ Oct 27 11:42:29 i don't think it works on os2008 though Oct 27 11:43:03 I thought there was something more utilitarian than that Oct 27 11:43:10 and something with source for that matter Oct 27 11:43:33 i got that compiled for 2008 but it didn't work Oct 27 11:43:45 oh, does it have source then? Oct 27 11:44:03 johnx: that stuff shouldn't incur any costs, yes. But I thought people asked for more deep synchronization Oct 27 11:44:40 yes, at the garage page Oct 27 11:44:53 ah cool Oct 27 11:45:03 vincenzo88: there you go then Oct 27 11:45:12 vincenzo88: at least you'll have a little bit to do ;) Oct 27 11:45:19 good luck with vlc :p Oct 27 11:45:46 well a different backend could be used I imagine Oct 27 11:46:23 sure Oct 27 11:46:24 Yes :p Oct 27 11:48:15 lardman, morning, has your phone been ringing this morning? http://xkcd.com/494/ Oct 27 11:48:46 or have you passed the hat onto the general ;) Oct 27 11:49:51 I believe that is the General's job Oct 27 11:51:01 heh Oct 27 11:51:34 suihkulokki: debian doesn't have something like docpurge anymore? Oct 27 11:51:45 * GeneralAntilles takes away lcuk's bandwidth privileges. Oct 27 11:52:02 RST38h, well some did, I'm sure. Lots of people also want ponies and unicorns. Just not me :) Oct 27 11:52:48 * Stskeeps runs a minbase debootstrap and sees how much it can be stripped down. Oct 27 11:52:58 Stskeeps: if it's missing, you can package it and I will sponsor it :) Oct 27 11:53:01 k Oct 27 11:53:17 * lcuk takes away GeneralAntilles's touchscreen privileges Oct 27 11:53:34 no more stroking the girls of the playboy mansion :P Oct 27 11:53:45 * suihkulokki notices the internet connection is too laggy to irc, so bbl Oct 27 11:54:36 * GeneralAntilles has never been a fan of artificial STD-infected women. Oct 27 11:55:32 fair enough then - would you prefer to miss out on STD infected rodents in playrat? Oct 27 11:57:23 RST38h: the atari 2600 is interesting.. which brings me to the question why there isn't more erotic apps for maemo Oct 27 11:57:35 i mean, even my c64 had Oct 27 11:57:36 that Oct 27 11:57:36 :P Oct 27 11:57:45 Sts: You are just applying your tablet the wrong way. Oct 27 11:58:37 Of course it is one area where thin and classy Apple products really excel Oct 27 11:59:31 irc'ing from the loo? Oct 27 11:59:31 :P Oct 27 11:59:47 * lcuk is going to make a webbrowser addin with a virtual staple which sits in the middle of the screen Oct 27 12:00:38 melmoth, do you make 'monkey-bubble' successfully under maemo? Oct 27 12:02:12 i did not try after i re installed scratchbox again Oct 27 12:03:35 ok, I have to try another one. Oct 27 12:08:23 * qwerty12 thanks mv-o for good changelogs Oct 27 12:08:34 Stskeeps: take a look at "i am free" in app manager ;) Oct 27 12:08:52 That program is the epitome of excitement. Oct 27 12:16:07 GeneralAntilles: Ok, red pill changes in fremantle *should* be backported to the diablo one. Oct 27 12:16:23 Awesome Oct 27 12:16:50 All I need to do is figure out how to get the show legal warning stuff to show in blue pill mode without it crashing >.< Oct 27 12:21:30 Yep, just tested. Went into red pill mode and restarted app manager and I'm back in blue pill mode. Oct 27 12:22:04 qwerty12 thanks for the link with htc, its working now Oct 27 12:22:12 I only had to change the device class Oct 27 12:22:14 woglinde: Great news Oct 27 12:23:08 chicken n bacon club sandwich or just plain ham salad? Oct 27 12:23:17 * lcuk should have a voting booth on NIT Oct 27 12:23:25 go for both :P Oct 27 12:23:37 BLT, I'll have another if you're offering though Oct 27 12:23:40 heh im not that fat Oct 27 12:23:46 *g* Oct 27 12:23:46 not yet ;) Oct 27 12:23:50 lol Oct 27 12:23:56 heh lardman, itsn ot a blt, its super blt and includes extra garnish Oct 27 12:23:57 mmmm bacon Oct 27 12:24:12 garnish just reduces the bacon density Oct 27 12:24:24 i got shouted at the other night, tracy told me to leave an even amount of bacon Oct 27 12:24:26 ~lart maemo for providing 6 automake-versions Oct 27 12:24:26 * infobot farts in maemo's general direction for providing 6 automake-versions Oct 27 12:24:32 so i left 2 slices and she still wasnt happy Oct 27 12:24:39 woglinde: I like that :P Oct 27 12:24:40 woglinde: debian isn't really batter.. Oct 27 12:24:55 no it suckz on the autobuilder Oct 27 12:25:03 if I want automake-1.9 Oct 27 12:25:08 Specify which one you want then Oct 27 12:25:08 woglinde knows all about the autobuilder ;) Oct 27 12:25:13 Ungh bacon Oct 27 12:25:14 * GeneralAntilles is hungry. Oct 27 12:25:54 i thought it was completely fair to leave 2 rashers - it did what she said and left an even amount, just because there was 12 rashers to begin with is completely not the point Oct 27 12:25:59 Stskeeps hm I only have my automake-1.10 thats all I need Oct 27 12:26:02 on debian Oct 27 12:26:40 im hungry as well (cant you tell) but its rainin muchly and im a wuss Oct 27 12:27:07 In the South, it's sunny :P Oct 27 12:27:07 I'm hungry too and I've just had lunch Oct 27 12:28:54 mmmm back later - rain stopped Oct 27 12:32:19 w00t, I'm finished with application manager. Anyone want to test it as well? Oct 27 12:33:03 (g0 on) Oct 27 12:38:22 The Information Commissioner has ruled against a request to force the BBC to reveal the inner workings of its TV detector vans. Oct 27 12:38:32 qwerty: screenshots? =) Oct 27 12:38:44 qwerty12: screenshots! Oct 27 12:38:51 And is it true that your government is snooping around neirbourhoods for working TV sets? Oct 27 12:38:56 RST38h, aquatix: k, wait a second Oct 27 12:39:05 They tax TVs, don't they? Oct 27 12:39:17 RST38h: Lol, they advertise that they do and I know one person that was paid a visit... Oct 27 12:39:27 derf: Yep, "Tv Licensing". Oct 27 12:39:37 That's where the BBC gets its money. Oct 27 12:39:43 RST38h: TV detectors are useless nowadays - our public television licensing publically admitted that Oct 27 12:39:48 But what if you refuse to let them in? Oct 27 12:39:56 No idea Oct 27 12:40:07 in .dk they are not allowed to enter without a court warrant Oct 27 12:40:20 Sts: that is how it should be in UK as well, no? Oct 27 12:40:24 RST38h: i don't think you *have* to let them in Oct 27 12:40:26 TV licensing? Oct 27 12:40:28 That's AWESOME Oct 27 12:40:28 you're allowed to refuse them entrance too, they have to get a police warrant if they want to search against your will Oct 27 12:40:28 not sure though Oct 27 12:40:36 General: you didn't know? Oct 27 12:40:38 'xaclty Oct 27 12:40:47 RST38h, no. Oct 27 12:41:06 There's enough insanity on this side of the pond Oct 27 12:41:10 General: There are REASONS why Orwell was British, you know... Oct 27 12:41:31 they do a lot of gestapo shit though, and essentially accuse everyone who doesn't have a TV license of having a secret TV and being criminals Oct 27 12:41:55 tv licensing is mainly because of public tv i think Oct 27 12:42:01 we have it here in the netherlands too Oct 27 12:42:09 it is supposed to finance BBC Oct 27 12:42:14 yeah Oct 27 12:42:32 RST38h: in .dk they do it for homes with 256kbps+ connection too but noone cares.. Oct 27 12:42:56 evil Oct 27 12:43:01 "media license" (cos the public tv started offering stuff online!) Oct 27 12:43:03 Robot101, haha @ germany Oct 27 12:43:23 pupnik810: hm? no this is the UK TV licensing authority Oct 27 12:43:26 aquatix yeah but you have the right to decide whats showing and I lately read Oct 27 12:43:58 woglinde: what do you mean exactly? Oct 27 12:44:10 they've actually put up billboards in some towns saying "12 PEOPLE ON $street DO NOT HAVE A TV LICENSE? (are you one of them? there's a $foo penalty for watching TV illegally)" Oct 27 12:44:22 Robot101: *sigh* Oct 27 12:44:30 GeneralAntilles: well, how many free, non-commercial national tv-channels you have? Oct 27 12:44:31 it's not that bad here in the NL thanfully Oct 27 12:44:38 any of you using an external umts dongle on N8x0? there are not enough open wlans in germany Oct 27 12:44:40 Robot101: About a year ago, Microsoft ran an ad campaign in Moscow subway Oct 27 12:44:42 they somehow merged it into other taxes Oct 27 12:44:53 pupnik810: how about using a phone instead? :o Oct 27 12:44:58 so now everyone with sewage or water pays for a tv/radio Oct 27 12:45:06 RST38h, aquatix: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/appman/1.png (showing Jaffa's grid view patch) & http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/appman/2.png (showing mine & Jaffa's show legal warning toggable patch & red pill changes from fremantle) Oct 27 12:45:15 Robot101: blue/green ads with vaguely gay looking office people and a message "I did not know before, but now I know!" Oct 27 12:45:30 Robot101: The idea is to make everybody license windows Oct 27 12:45:32 macoute, around 6. Oct 27 12:45:41 Well, national, 2. Oct 27 12:45:44 RST38h: :) Oct 27 12:45:45 Lots more local Oct 27 12:45:49 aquatix hm I read that there are some associations in which you can discuss and have some influence on what is showing ob public tv Oct 27 12:45:51 GeneralAntilles: how do they get their money? :o Oct 27 12:45:52 Robot101: In just several days, somebody wrote a valid WinXP registration number across all the ads though Oct 27 12:46:01 woglinde: ah, i guess so indeed Oct 27 12:46:03 RST38h: lol Oct 27 12:46:08 macoute, partly from the government, partly from donations. Oct 27 12:46:13 GeneralAntilles: so you'd have to pay even though you don't watch them? Oct 27 12:46:16 and sponsorships Oct 27 12:46:17 aquatix we dont have this here in germany Oct 27 12:46:26 GeneralAntilles: in taxes, i mean Oct 27 12:46:33 otherwise "Musikantenstadl" would be finsished Oct 27 12:46:33 woglinde: not that i know of that association or something :) Oct 27 12:46:35 macoute, I don't use welfare, either. Oct 27 12:46:36 I pay for that. Oct 27 12:46:41 * aquatix barely watches the dutch tv Oct 27 12:46:56 aquatix haha Oct 27 12:47:00 GeneralAntilles: i mean that if the funding comes from the government, that means the funding comes from you :) Oct 27 12:47:06 qwerty12: perhaps legal warning thing should be "never show this bloody thing again"? Oct 27 12:47:23 macoute, what's your point? Oct 27 12:47:40 Stskeeps: hehe, I know, a pointless piece of shit by scared pussies Oct 27 12:47:41 qwerty: If I install it, how do I go back to the original one? Oct 27 12:47:55 GeneralAntilles: that if you want to have free channels, you need to have the tv-license fee or you have to pay it in taxes. Oct 27 12:47:56 qwerty12: that's a lot of settings :) Oct 27 12:48:21 qwerty12: it's the intention that apps are going to use more meaningful categories right? Oct 27 12:48:21 RST38h: Get it from the ssu repo and use dpkg to install. I'll grab the original from there in a minute. Oct 27 12:48:25 GeneralAntilles: and if you pay it in your taxes, there is a great possibility that the government gets to influence in the programs they show. Oct 27 12:48:31 as atm, i still just use the All button to find stuff Oct 27 12:48:49 aquatix: I hope so, I'm not really listening to that discussion. Same, I use the All button too. Oct 27 12:48:52 General: Hey, I pay for welfare and I had regular chance to watch welfare recepients!~ Oct 27 12:49:07 General: So in a sense, it was like British TV license for me Oct 27 12:49:24 qwerty: Ok Oct 27 12:49:51 RST38h: :) Oct 27 12:50:00 qwerty: Legal warning is not pointless. It is required from Nokia to disclaim all responsibility Oct 27 12:50:02 macoute, I still don't see what that has to do with vans driving around to make sure people pay their TV licenses. Oct 27 12:50:10 RST38h, it's pointless. Oct 27 12:50:22 RST38h: My pocket pc never displayed it. And it ran software by microsoft. Oct 27 12:50:24 General: Not if you ask Nokia's legal councel Oct 27 12:50:34 Yeah, well, they don't live in reality. Oct 27 12:50:59 General: Well, it is all done to keep you safe from accidentally entring their reality Oct 27 12:51:04 GeneralAntilles: i do. :) if you need to pay that (you have a tv) there should be some control, shouldnt there? Oct 27 12:51:09 shouldn't the disclaim all responsibility legal notice be in the startup wizard? Oct 27 12:51:15 GeneralAntilles: they do control your taxes as well Oct 27 12:51:21 General: Because once you do, you are gonna exit with much lighter pockets, in the best case Oct 27 12:51:53 if everyone who has a tv would happily pay their fee, i doubt they would continue driving vans on you neighborhood Oct 27 12:52:31 Right, pointless discussion. Oct 27 12:53:21 macoute: that would feed unemployment though Oct 27 12:53:24 ;) Oct 27 12:53:32 lardman: that true :) Oct 27 12:53:39 perhaps we should be taxed per-TV rather than per-household Oct 27 12:53:46 like car tax Oct 27 12:53:56 yea, just make all tvs more expensive Oct 27 12:54:07 they are already twice expensive inUK than in US... Oct 27 12:54:09 * aquatix will watch tv on his pc then Oct 27 12:54:14 well the fee is ~£135/year, so it would be pretty expensive Oct 27 12:54:27 i think that the best way to fund public channels is the tv fee Oct 27 12:54:28 135 pounds a year? oh shit Oct 27 12:54:42 yep Oct 27 12:54:56 if it is funded by government, governement gets to decide what we watch. Oct 27 12:55:04 It is like buying BBC a new tv set every year Oct 27 12:55:16 It's funded by us, actually. Oct 27 12:55:21 macoute: Well, formally BBC has some kind of an independent council Oct 27 12:55:33 We _are_ the government, despite whatever politicians want you to believe. Oct 27 12:55:48 in soviet UK, the government is you! Oct 27 12:56:09 * qwerty12 makes knives legal Oct 27 12:56:13 General: you are not. Oct 27 12:56:34 Better get rid of wrong assumptions now. Oct 27 12:56:34 qwerty12: legal? I've got some in my kitchen, am I going to be taken away? Oct 27 12:57:08 lardman: Yes, you were. But now, you can take them anywhere and do whatever with them. Oct 27 12:57:09 i don't want day-to-day politics to have any influence in the programs YLE (the BBC of Finland) shows (I mean, it shouldnt be leftish when we have leftish government and so on) Oct 27 12:57:24 (though YLE is kinda leftish atm too) :) Oct 27 12:57:45 You can only count something as a bbc equivalent if it shows eastenders. Oct 27 12:57:54 macoute: you damn commies ;) Oct 27 12:58:07 qwerty12: why would I want to take anything more than a 4" knife anywhere with me anyway? Oct 27 12:58:17 qwerty12: oh noes! they showed eastenders here iirc Oct 27 12:58:23 If you need to cut some meat. Oct 27 12:58:34 lardman: Street shanking Oct 27 12:58:37 GeneralAntilles: It's illegal to kill most stuff here Oct 27 12:58:39 aquatix: nice one Oct 27 12:58:40 qwerty12: hmm Oct 27 12:58:50 lardman, what if it's already dead? Oct 27 12:58:52 macoute, maybe... massive 5minute lag here .... Oct 27 12:59:10 GeneralAntilles: or undead! Oct 27 12:59:24 GeneralAntilles: use your teeth - that's what incisors are for isn't it? Oct 27 12:59:38 lardman: won't help much against zombies, no would it? Oct 27 12:59:40 *now Oct 27 13:00:01 macoute: i'd lose yle in a heartbeat if it was possible Oct 27 13:00:04 I'd prefer something longer range Oct 27 13:00:09 Seriously. Sounds like a good way to get infected with rage Oct 27 13:00:20 give me a jo any day Oct 27 13:00:22 lardman: I... have a Nerf gun? Oct 27 13:00:29 solmumaha: so you really think jim or nelonen would be just enough? :D Oct 27 13:00:29 :) Oct 27 13:00:32 sounds ideal Oct 27 13:00:44 * lardman heads off to Spanish class Oct 27 13:00:55 if I can't kill most of the stuff Oct 27 13:00:59 solmumaha: i actually value for example last nights program about the elections. didnt see that one from JIM? :) Oct 27 13:01:01 then can I kill at least SOME? Oct 27 13:01:11 can I at least desecrate some plants or something? Oct 27 13:01:14 macoute: well maybe not but i could live without it Oct 27 13:01:30 solmumaha: you could live, stupidly :) Oct 27 13:01:34 macoute: they are not worth 200 e / year Oct 27 13:02:28 solmumaha: well thats another question. but I value yle areena too Oct 27 13:02:37 i can read the news elsewhere, only thing i would miss would prolly be ice hockey Oct 27 13:02:57 and that would give me a reason to visit someone Oct 27 13:03:12 or watch the stream? Oct 27 13:03:29 it's annoying you can't watch commercial channels only without paying for yle which i so rarely watch Oct 27 13:04:41 * aquatix thinks that if his gf stopped watching tv, we could as well quit the subscription Oct 27 13:05:07 aquatix: hypnotise into thinking tv is worthless Oct 27 13:05:12 ^her Oct 27 13:05:15 :) Oct 27 13:05:23 :P Oct 27 13:05:36 well, there are some series that aren't streamed from their sites, so she watches those live on tv Oct 27 13:05:46 already watches quite a lot online Oct 27 13:06:05 but she dislikes not having subtitles, so she doesn't torrent US series and such Oct 27 13:06:17 reminds me Oct 27 13:06:25 * aquatix has to order some Dr Who dvd boxes Oct 27 13:06:42 Heh, none of us are deaf, but I grew up watching tv with subs and now I can't live w/out them >.< Oct 27 13:06:43 * RST38h should download some DrWho series Oct 27 13:07:22 qwerty12: well, she doesn't want to listen closely and translate from english while all she wants is relax from work Oct 27 13:07:27 I stopped watching the new ones. Oct 27 13:07:29 They were awful. Oct 27 13:07:36 derf: ah? Oct 27 13:07:43 * aquatix has to see season 3 and 4 yet Oct 27 13:07:44 * qwerty12 shoves David Tennant in the retardis and pisses on the retardis and sets fire to it Oct 27 13:07:55 and the spin-off Oct 27 13:08:00 Some trick after you've pissed on it. Oct 27 13:08:04 qwerty12: hey! Oct 27 13:08:10 derf: *g* Oct 27 13:08:19 derf, qwerty12 pisses gasoline Oct 27 13:08:20 Yer, I'll get him to lick it off and then douse it in petrol. Oct 27 13:08:21 didn't you hear? Oct 27 13:08:32 GeneralAntilles: or only a tiny bit ;) Oct 27 13:08:45 aquatix, i was just biking around .nl to see what life there feels like ---- Oct 27 13:08:47 qwerty12: ... Oct 27 13:08:53 * RST38h is asking qwerty very very nicely Oct 27 13:08:58 ugh, what is it with wanting huge, multi-feature programs? Oct 27 13:09:05 almost sugarly... Oct 27 13:09:05 pupnik810: ah? :) Oct 27 13:09:31 t_s_o: I blame Windows. Oct 27 13:09:34 qwerty, what will it take to finally replace those category buttons in app manager with a grid of icons? Oct 27 13:09:43 without borders, black background, you know... Oct 27 13:10:03 Easy, but where do you get the icons from? Oct 27 13:10:03 derf: was that just a cheap jab at windows, or can you elaborate on it? Oct 27 13:10:11 RST38h: well, don't we need pre-defined categories then? Oct 27 13:10:19 RST38h: you need a defined list of categories (like what aquatix just said) Oct 27 13:10:23 Jaffa: No problem, I will steal some from a gtk or kde theme Oct 27 13:10:31 Jaffa: current list is ok Oct 27 13:10:36 + a default icon for new ones Oct 27 13:10:38 Well, the Unix philsophy is small tools that do only one thing. Oct 27 13:10:54 and that can be stringed together to do large tasks Oct 27 13:10:58 t_s_o: maybe because windows suffers from featuritis too? Oct 27 13:11:14 * Jaffa would rather the category list matched the package view, especially if the package view will contain sub-categories Oct 27 13:11:15 I suggest we have icons for each of the existing categories + have 1 extra icon for new category Oct 27 13:11:16 the whole platform generally Oct 27 13:11:18 Ergo large multifeature programs must be from some other OS's philsophy. Oct 27 13:11:21 a bit like kde ;) Oct 27 13:11:38 Jaffa: top category list does not have to match package view, but for new users it has ot be catchy Oct 27 13:11:55 RST38h, good luck finding sensible icons. Oct 27 13:12:02 heh, funny enough i use kde on my desktop, but not 4.x (so far) Oct 27 13:12:06 General: it is easier than it sounds Oct 27 13:12:09 That will clearly tell people exactly what's in each category. Oct 27 13:12:16 RST38h: true Oct 27 13:12:20 aquatix, 5\3 Oct 27 13:12:22 GeneralAntilles: I still think they should have them. Oct 27 13:12:24 General: Because KDE themes already have them premade afaik Oct 27 13:12:28 the worst thing about package manager currently is that teeeny tiny little farty downarraow i 100% must hit everytime i want to look down the list. everything else is fluff Oct 27 13:12:31 But text shouldn't go away. Oct 27 13:12:31 still, kde is much more a case of many small parts then having big apps with overlapping features Oct 27 13:12:47 Yes, I guess texts should just become smaller Oct 27 13:12:50 GeneralAntilles: if the packages are based on freedesktop.org's menu - Ubuntu and every other distro have /some/ form of icon for them Oct 27 13:12:52 aquatix, the flat landscape+canals feels verry strange :) Oct 27 13:12:54 pupnik810: err, that's a 5 out of 3? you liked it here? ;) Oct 27 13:13:04 ah :) Oct 27 13:13:12 yeah, it's an interesting country sight Oct 27 13:13:16 fn key + "the" Oct 27 13:13:32 ah :) Oct 27 13:14:19 can n8x0 cam do streaming + motion recognition yet? Oct 27 13:14:22 the first time i travelled through hilly land, i couldn't stop watching :) Oct 27 13:14:25 I will find icons as soon as I get junior off my hands Oct 27 13:16:28 vgba is truly kickass now.... is video lib ready to share RST38h ? Oct 27 13:16:38 it is Oct 27 13:16:50 just need to package, will do it tonight if kicked hard enough Oct 27 13:17:15 * qwerty12 dropkicks RST38h from Moscow to Vladivostok Oct 27 13:17:53 no hurry from me Oct 27 13:17:58 hey, it is 12 hour flight Oct 27 13:18:53 hmm, zx spectrum in my pocket, there is something weird about that... Oct 27 13:19:15 t_s_o: :) Oct 27 13:19:17 GeneralAntilles: good blog post - exactly what I was thinking the other day we *cough* should be doing Oct 27 13:20:10 hmm, seeing images of them gives me the feel that i ones played around with a green colored one at some point... Oct 27 13:20:44 mm, debian base at 87.8m, too big? Oct 27 13:21:13 hmm, i really need to get rid of some tablets, anyone interested on 770/n800? :) Oct 27 13:21:29 i gladly take 770 donations to get deblet on them Oct 27 13:21:30 :P Oct 27 13:21:41 Jaffa, I'm not making any more until somebody else makes one. :P Oct 27 13:22:02 Stskeeps: but then i wouldn't have a 770 to put it on Oct 27 13:22:06 hehe Oct 27 13:24:55 * qwerty12 has to work out why apt-worker is being anal retentive Oct 27 13:25:21 GeneralAntilles: I did a patch which gave you your grid view - and it's been applied :-p Oct 27 13:25:57 Jaffa, then I guess I'll pick on lardman, tim or etrunko. Oct 27 13:26:05 qwerty12: on tablet.. is busybox replacements symlinks or hardlinks? Oct 27 13:26:11 Phew, slopey shouldered that one Oct 27 13:26:11 to busybox Oct 27 13:26:21 Stskeeps: no idea Oct 27 13:26:28 (And I'm too lazy to check :P) Oct 27 13:26:38 i have a very interesting observation if i'm right then Oct 27 13:27:15 qwerty12: installing coreutils in debian when busybox is installed with hardlinks doesn't nuke busybox Oct 27 13:27:54 lardman may be able to dodge it if he kicks in some h-a-m patches Oct 27 13:28:07 qwerty12: and symlinks is what maemo has Oct 27 13:28:18 etrunko probably gets a pass for Canola b10 Oct 27 13:28:30 Don't worry though, only delaying the inevitable. :P Oct 27 13:29:37 qwerty12: so if maemo can stop being silly and using symlinks.. :P Oct 27 13:30:30 hehe Oct 27 13:30:58 Stskeeps: I think it's more of a thing with busybox setting coreutils as a conflict Oct 27 13:31:06 ah Oct 27 13:31:16 because apt-get will then be set to remove busybox and a lot of shit in maemo depends on busybox Oct 27 13:31:35 yeah, which is kinda weird though Oct 27 13:31:46 it should depend on coreutils instead Oct 27 13:31:58 I just open /var/lib/dpkg/status and remove conflicts as I see fit. I've done that successfully to install procps & debianutils Oct 27 13:31:58 Don't some of the initscripts fail on coreutils? Oct 27 13:32:02 nah Oct 27 13:32:08 that's kinda fail though Oct 27 13:32:29 yer, but dodgy stuff by maemo requires me to do dodgy stuff to revert it Oct 27 13:33:04 Easier way is to rebuild busybox without a conflicts line in the deb... Oct 27 13:33:35 Jaffa,qwerty: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:GNOME_Desktop_icon_theme Oct 27 13:33:46 See gnome-application-* Oct 27 13:34:24 Jaffa, in response to m-vo not wanting to define the categories at the h-a-m level, what about pulling in a list from maemo.org? Oct 27 13:34:25 qwerty12: i'm just investigating how to "reconstruct" maemo in a sane way Oct 27 13:35:02 * GeneralAntilles throws a Time to Blog TODO at etrunko. Oct 27 13:35:22 GeneralAntilles: A list could be held in the repository. Oct 27 13:35:56 Presumably with the one from repository.maemo.org being the authoritative one. Oct 27 13:36:28 The idea seems a bit better if you consider the Downloads integration I'd like to see coded up. Oct 27 13:36:55 GeneralAntilles: Yes, we should write up a plan for that too ;) Oct 27 13:37:31 Step 1. Make sure Downloads can beat a snails pace. Oct 27 13:39:26 hm, jffs2 compressed 100mb debian image, at 41mb Oct 27 13:39:33 with 199 to spare Oct 27 13:39:49 (or less?) Oct 27 13:39:54 Planning on flashing it? :P Oct 27 13:40:05 did cross my mind Oct 27 13:40:15 and this is a decently workable image, too Oct 27 13:40:39 If I can get g_serial to work, I'll try it Oct 27 13:40:49 GeneralAntilles: I'd been wondering that. Might be a bit too heavyweight, and complex to define - but it's an idea which might be worth further diiscussion if two of us have come up with it Oct 27 13:40:54 hehe.. right now it would be only sane as a chroot image Oct 27 13:41:00 but with upstart on top.. Oct 27 13:41:05 and some actual init Oct 27 13:41:12 Ah, maybe not then :P Oct 27 13:42:28 qwerty12: but imagine a system where you use unionfs on the flash and extending with the internal SD Oct 27 13:42:37 Jaffa, I mean, a bytes-sized text file with a list of valid categories (and icons?) Oct 27 13:42:43 Stskeeps: s/unionfs/aufs :P Oct 27 13:42:47 qwerty12: or that yeah Oct 27 13:42:49 Wouldn't be anywhere near the weight of the Packages file. Oct 27 13:43:14 qwerty12: how does it handle deleting files though? Oct 27 13:43:14 Stskeeps: unionfs requires a custom kernel. The aufs module I did insmod's successfully on any 2.6.21-omap1 kernel Oct 27 13:43:30 * lcuk soundsm ore northern than ever Oct 27 13:43:43 Stskeeps: Not sure. I still haven't got around to repartitioning my 1gb to ext3 Oct 27 13:43:49 k Oct 27 13:44:32 milhouse, "Applications"? Seriously? :P Oct 27 13:44:55 qwerty12: remember offhand how big the rootfs partition is? Oct 27 13:45:26 on diablo Oct 27 13:45:38 Stskeeps: 255488 blocks Oct 27 13:45:48 4MB+2MB+9KB-256MB Oct 27 13:46:13 k Oct 27 13:46:58 doesnt that segfault? 4+2+0.09-256 (roughly) Oct 27 13:47:31 qwerty12 rushed my reply Oct 27 13:47:50 That's nice Oct 27 13:47:58 qwerty12: blocks of what size? :> Oct 27 13:48:44 Stskeeps: blocks :P. I don't have much info here :p Oct 27 13:48:57 Well, we've got 256MB to work with, right? Oct 27 13:49:04 The initfs partition is 4MB? Oct 27 13:49:09 The kernel partition is 2MB? Oct 27 13:49:21 Exactly Oct 27 13:49:25 NOLO and config make up somwhere in the range of 5-15KB, right? Oct 27 13:49:32 *nod* Oct 27 13:49:46 Stskeeps: 255488 blocks in kb, just realised it now >.< Oct 27 13:49:46 Add that up, and subtract it from 256MB Oct 27 13:49:53 There's your answer Oct 27 13:50:27 so we should go towards approx 250 mb, ideally stuff to spare :P Oct 27 13:50:52 remember jffs2 compression :) Oct 27 13:51:01 yeah, i think i enabled it Oct 27 13:51:16 GeneralAntilles: ...and i18n versions for all supported languages, and extended descriptions Oct 27 13:51:17 sorry, jumped in halfway :/ Oct 27 13:51:36 Jaffa, so maybe a few KB? Oct 27 13:53:18 :) Oct 27 13:54:17 johnx_: got a 41mb image for debian system with coreutils + some busybox replacements Oct 27 13:54:36 quite minimal, no init and stuff (yet) though Oct 27 13:55:01 sounds good Oct 27 13:55:45 johnx: i'm just wondering if it's more sane to try with ubuntu arm packages to make things easier :P Oct 27 13:55:48 +el Oct 27 13:56:02 hmm? why is ubuntu more sane?? Oct 27 13:59:15 johnx: easier to get to work with upstart possibly Oct 27 13:59:28 but then again i might be wrong Oct 27 13:59:31 hi Oct 27 13:59:44 well easier to get working with upstart probably Oct 27 14:09:33 hi Oct 27 14:11:50 i am trying to build a debug package of dbus from chinook . i unpacked the tarball and now I am trying to do fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage which fails. then I untarred dbus-1.0.2.tar.gz and tried again and now I see that the patches are not applied. why is that ? Oct 27 14:12:44 paines because the patches resides in debian/patches Oct 27 14:13:07 and are apllied at debian/rules patch: line Oct 27 14:13:21 when you invokde dpkg-buildpackage Oct 27 14:13:28 or debiam/rules patch Oct 27 14:13:35 args debian/rules Oct 27 14:18:23 woglinde: i don't get it. cause normaly when you get a debian-sources tarball you just unpack it and you have the sources + debian direcoty and you just call dpkg-buildpackage, patches are applied (etc) and, sources are build and deb's are beeing made. Oct 27 14:18:53 so you applied the diff.gz that goes with it? Oct 27 14:18:59 but now for the dbus mamo package after aunpacking i again have a tarball + debian directory which leaves kind of iritated Oct 27 14:19:05 no Oct 27 14:19:11 paines: Did you get the diff file as well and was it extracted with dpkg-source -x .dsc Oct 27 14:19:12 there was none Oct 27 14:19:29 let me check, but iirc there was no diff Oct 27 14:20:04 yeah, guess you're right. That's odd... Oct 27 14:20:05 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook-beta/free/d/dbus/ Oct 27 14:20:12 there no diff Oct 27 14:20:21 is there a reason you're pulling from chinook beta? Oct 27 14:20:21 paines they is apt-get source moopackage Oct 27 14:20:30 args the way Oct 27 14:20:54 paines if you setup sources.list right Oct 27 14:20:58 johnx: no, but i cheked for maemo 4.1 and it is the same Oct 27 14:21:53 paines, not really, it's several revisions older... Oct 27 14:22:16 it might not solve the problem, but it's probably worth a try Oct 27 14:22:20 johnx: no i mean the package from chinook and memo 4.1 look the same aftre unpacking Oct 27 14:22:27 ah Oct 27 14:22:28 of course the content is different Oct 27 14:22:31 johnx I think he means same in "both has tar.gz and patcjes" Oct 27 14:22:34 hehe Oct 27 14:22:37 yeah Oct 27 14:22:39 :-) Oct 27 14:22:43 woglinde, yeah, just got it Oct 27 14:23:11 so how wold you guys build that package from source ? Oct 27 14:23:22 apt-source and apt-build ?!? Oct 27 14:23:23 paines apt-get source moopackages Oct 27 14:23:36 dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot Oct 27 14:24:05 i see. okay. i have a scratchbox install, amybe it will JUST work, hoefully Oct 27 14:24:13 thanks for helps+tips guys Oct 27 14:24:27 sure, hope it works Oct 27 14:24:29 no prob Oct 27 14:24:41 paines: yep, I just tried it, the patches are being applied Oct 27 14:24:46 if the deb-src lines are in sources.list it will work Oct 27 14:25:11 qwerty12: how did you do it ? Oct 27 14:25:50 paines: apt-get source dbus ; cd dbus-1.0.2 ; dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot . Basically what was said on here :/ Oct 27 14:26:22 hm anyone knows when I do on the nokia xkbcomp -xkm $MYDISPLAY nokia_mo.xkm which license the .xkm file has? Oct 27 14:26:35 okay, then I guess apt-source is doing some magic like applying patches Oct 27 14:26:42 paines: Not at all :) Oct 27 14:27:06 qwerty12: then I have a reason to hate mondays even more Oct 27 14:27:27 maybe the chinook beta version is just messed up? Oct 27 14:27:29 paines apt-get source gets the original.tar.gz Oct 27 14:27:40 and applies the debin changes Oct 27 14:27:55 AHA Oct 27 14:27:56 paines: Heh. If you just need a straight build from the chinook-beta I'd be happy to do it (though I'm in a diablo sdk) Oct 27 14:28:30 so let me see if my libnxcl stuff hits the archive Oct 27 14:28:37 then qtnx is on the way Oct 27 14:29:12 Cool, I've never tried nx (vnc & xrdp person myself) but I guess, first time for everything :) Oct 27 14:29:25 is it fast ? Oct 27 14:29:40 qwerty if you want X-protocoll via grps its the way Oct 27 14:30:17 Heh, I never connect through a phone though it may be useful over wifi. Oct 27 14:31:17 hm but you need to do some steps on the server, otherwise you do not have a sane keymap Oct 27 14:31:30 hm I should put this in to a README file too Oct 27 14:32:46 Well, a clean compile with a diff of my modifications applied stopped apt-worker from killing itself. Oct 27 14:33:52 johnx: i might have a bloody interesting thing in a sec.. Oct 27 14:34:05 an interesting bloody thing? Oct 27 14:35:05 johnx: ubuntu hasty (from mojo), 35mb jffs2, no docpurge or anything, just simple minbase Oct 27 14:35:17 pretty neat Oct 27 14:35:22 fully functional Oct 27 14:35:30 boots on its own? Oct 27 14:35:39 it has upstart and all so i guess it would be a workable sys Oct 27 14:36:12 GeneralAntilles: thanks for remembering... I'm trying to contact people about the logo/redesign issue Oct 27 14:36:47 qwerty12 do you have a n810? Oct 27 14:36:53 woglinde: N800 only Oct 27 14:37:03 great guys. I didn't know that apt-get source would pull and apply the patch. now it builded all fine together with debug packges. MANY THANKS ! Oct 27 14:37:22 I've done the following to application manager: http://pastebin.com/d3408dfa1 . Any more requests? Oct 27 14:38:22 paines, it didn't do anything different... Oct 27 14:39:21 qwerty12 hm sorry then qtnx is not useable Oct 27 14:39:30 Ok :) Oct 27 14:39:36 because of the keyboard Oct 27 14:40:15 johnx: yeah but I did, cause i thought just downoading the tarball via wget and building it is enough Oct 27 14:40:17 Re, someone have the default password to beeing root on maemo OS on N810 ? Oct 27 14:40:24 ~root-access Oct 27 14:40:25 root-access is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access Oct 27 14:40:25 paines this works for debian for over 10 years now Oct 27 14:40:42 Starting Mail Transport Agent (MTA): sendmailmake: Warning: File `Makefile' has modification time 1.2e+09 s in the future Oct 27 14:40:45 wtf really.. Oct 27 14:40:49 why run a makefile when starting sendmail Oct 27 14:40:50 paines, it is. I'm guessing apt-get pulled the latest version, which probably had changes to fix whatever was wrong with the old one you tried to build first Oct 27 14:40:53 Thanks ! Oct 27 14:41:01 woglinde: :-P Oct 27 14:41:13 woglinde: now I know how it works Oct 27 14:45:00 lol. no space left on device when installing. darn mondays. Oct 27 14:50:23 hm is there a site where all n810 keyboard layouts are shown in picture? Oct 27 14:51:38 * GeneralAntilles sets up internet sharing to test #2478 Oct 27 14:54:06 GeneralAntilles: 38mb (jffs) (87mb unpacked) base ubuntu system.. think this might be interesting? fully optimized for tablet Oct 27 14:54:14 and has these packages: Oct 27 14:55:04 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/pack.txt Oct 27 14:55:52 Probably interesting to somebody, though not to me. Oct 27 14:55:57 alright Oct 27 14:56:05 (i see it as a possible base for a maemo :P) Oct 27 14:56:14 <_berto_> who maintains the maemo extras repo ? Oct 27 14:56:21 Hit the mailing list. Oct 27 14:56:27 _berto_, maemo.org Oct 27 14:56:38 Contact X-Fade if you need something. Oct 27 14:56:41 <_berto_> ok Oct 27 14:56:45 <_berto_> X-Fade: are you there? :) Oct 27 14:57:52 qwerty12, I think the settings that stick in Red Pill should just be moved to a Blue Pill prefs dialog. Oct 27 14:57:53 * RST38h is back Oct 27 14:57:56 _berto_: always. Oct 27 14:58:03 qwerty, Jaffa: still here? Oct 27 14:58:06 Maybe make the check for prefs per-pref instead of for the whole thing? Oct 27 14:58:38 GeneralAntilles: I'd like to do that but every time I made an attempt to; h-a-m crashed when changing those settings in blue pill :( Oct 27 14:59:03 Anyways, icon themes that contain icons for the app manager: Oct 27 14:59:05 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Icons_themes Oct 27 14:59:11 RST38h: Sure, but you know I can't program :P Oct 27 14:59:23 Gnome Desktop, Tango, Silk, Noia, Nuvola Oct 27 14:59:34 I want these: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Arimaa_graphics Oct 27 14:59:52 Ooh, playboy bunny Oct 27 14:59:56 +1 for Arimaa Oct 27 15:00:19 * GeneralAntilles chuckles at the attitude in qwerty12's announcement. Oct 27 15:00:40 Hehe, swearing is a habit to me now :/ :P Oct 27 15:01:11 Forgot to upload the diff... Oct 27 15:01:38 you are gettin old and forgetful Oct 27 15:01:48 The "Settings" string needs to change to "Settings..." Oct 27 15:02:06 lcuk: Not like you yet :P Oct 27 15:02:09 General: yeek Oct 27 15:02:22 GeneralAntilles: Good point, I think it can be changed in locales. lemme see Oct 27 15:02:35 and what software category is supposed to be denoted with a golden rabbit? Oct 27 15:02:40 at least i know im an old coot, it will make me happy to simply watch you panic :P Oct 27 15:02:53 RST38h: XXX soft Oct 27 15:03:10 umgh...I do not think we have any in Extras Oct 27 15:03:17 give the rabbit a black body and it can be battery apps Oct 27 15:03:27 qwerty12 I still see magic:sys and stuff outside of user/ by default in Red Pill. Oct 27 15:03:50 GeneralAntilles: It's because it's using your old settings file which has that enabled :/ Oct 27 15:03:57 Ah, right. Oct 27 15:03:59 Fair enough. Oct 27 15:04:19 Maybe change it during the postinst? Oct 27 15:04:39 Or maybe just don't worry about it Oct 27 15:04:39 Yep, could be done :). Though I'm not great on sed knowledge. Oct 27 15:04:42 I'm sure m-vo has a plan. Oct 27 15:04:45 Poor Paris Hilton is the latest victim of the financial apocalypse which has ripped across our planet, with London clubs offering the talented amateur porn flick performer as little as ¸25k a pop to enhance their premises with her magnetic charms. Oct 27 15:04:51 Oh the horror Oct 27 15:05:08 what do you want to do with sed again? Oct 27 15:05:13 RST38h: yep, still here Oct 27 15:05:32 Jaffa: Check the above themes - they have got pretty much all you need Oct 27 15:06:20 RST38h: Replace some lines. I know how to do it but I get a little confused >.< Oct 27 15:06:26 Jaffa, any chance you could make the grid more dynamic? Oct 27 15:06:38 In fullscreen, it looks like I can fit 4 columns. Oct 27 15:07:28 if you use icons, you sould be able to fit all categories onto the screen ;) Oct 27 15:07:41 qwerty12, you can probably drop "BitTorrent Client" from the Maemo-Display-Name. Oct 27 15:07:57 It looks cooler though :P Oct 27 15:08:24 Yeah, but looking at it in my dock here it says "Transmission" :P Oct 27 15:08:28 I'll do it if I do any more with the source, I can't warrant uploading a new version to the autobuilder with just that change Oct 27 15:08:29 Hehe :P Oct 27 15:08:41 Fair enough Oct 27 15:11:33 Ok, fixing the Settings should be easy enough, just rebuilding a new version with that fix... Oct 27 15:16:23 I still feel like I want a Media player-style view changer for h-a-m Oct 27 15:17:00 Maybe not exactly like that, but toolbar selection would be nice. Oct 27 15:19:57 GeneralAntilles: What'd be better is a flowing set of icons which wraps at the appropriate width, or a GtkTreeView (which I think'd be best, with icons for the categories, but then the code'll be very similar between the category list and the package/sub-category list) Oct 27 15:22:06 And if you need to scroll -> thumb scroll bar ;) Oct 27 15:23:03 I'd so rather have a nice flickable list Oct 27 15:23:12 Scrollbars suck Oct 27 15:23:15 Kinetic scrolling? :) Oct 27 15:23:18 Yeah Oct 27 15:23:26 That's the one thing I just love about the iPhone. Oct 27 15:23:30 flick-flick-flick Oct 27 15:23:40 Use the widget from mauku? Oct 27 15:23:48 Works very much the way my mouse works Oct 27 15:23:54 Gotta love that MX Revulotion Oct 27 15:24:12 s/Revulotion/Revolution/ Oct 27 15:24:12 GeneralAntilles meant: Gotta love that MX Revolution Oct 27 15:24:36 ooh, classy Oct 27 15:28:38 are we still talking about AM? Oct 27 15:30:41 lardman: Yes. Oct 27 15:30:42 X-Fade: or just wait for fremantle when everything's going to be drag-to-scroll Oct 27 15:31:00 * Jaffa doesn't want to end up doing patching on H-A-M which is going to get done anyway with Nokia's own widgets Oct 27 15:31:27 Jaffa: Fine by me, but are you sure it will be that way? :) Oct 27 15:32:08 Fremantle will have inertial scrolling. Oct 27 15:32:49 X-Fade: Fairly sure: from what ragnar's said, and #2564, and what was talked about at the summit. Oct 27 15:33:02 Certainly, if it's as crap as it is now, I may well leave in a huff ;-) Oct 27 15:33:17 In which case my pet hates are no multi-select for install/remove and reloading the entire list view whenever something changes Oct 27 15:33:25 hola Oct 27 15:34:22 lardman: multiselect and scrolling, that will be an interesting thing to fix ;) Oct 27 15:34:43 lardman: unless there is some tickbox or 'shopping cart' like behavior. Oct 27 15:34:51 lardman: Let's hope that if multi-selecti is implemented, it's not like the file manager... Oct 27 15:34:54 -i Oct 27 15:34:54 yes, tickbox works well Oct 27 15:35:32 http://old.hackndev.com/node/208 Oct 27 15:35:35 for example Oct 27 15:36:02 Well, that is a nightmare with your fingers ;) Oct 27 15:36:12 But I guess if you size it up... Oct 27 15:36:45 yes, no need to have the user tick the boxes, they click as usual on the name to select deselect, then just another button to apply changes Oct 27 15:39:57 Sounds good. Especially with a nice, finger-friendly UI Oct 27 15:40:02 * GAN800 likes it when two short presses on esc becomes one long press Oct 27 15:40:10 Almost like some kind of app store, or /downloads/, rather than a dpkg Oct 27 15:40:22 -replacement Oct 27 15:41:14 yikes. Those package names are *tiny*! Oct 27 15:41:34 yeah, probably got the dpi wrong for the build Oct 27 15:41:35 i think i'll need a magnifying glass Oct 27 15:41:43 ;) Oct 27 15:42:06 Jaffa: yesss Oct 27 15:42:11 GAN800: Ok, Settings renamed to Settings... and show magic and show all packages are set to be disabled during postinst... Oct 27 15:42:35 * Jaffa can't see why we /really/ need downloads.maemo.org when the AM could be it (most of the time) Oct 27 15:42:56 Jaffa: we still need the site for more extensive information Oct 27 15:43:05 Jaffa: Agreed, if the AM could pull up a bit of blurb and a screenshot in some view Oct 27 15:43:12 screenshots, download statistrics, ratings, etc etc Oct 27 15:43:30 could all be done in the AM still Oct 27 15:43:30 don't discount downloads.maemo.org right away Oct 27 15:43:41 lardman: yes, but it is so much easier to do in html Oct 27 15:44:13 updating and improving it in am will be royal pain. Oct 27 15:44:23 Another idea would be to have a 'local' d.m.o though the webruntime. Oct 27 15:44:25 it could be done in html still, allow the AM to open some html for extra blurb Oct 27 15:44:36 let us not involve web runtime :) Oct 27 15:44:47 And run the installer only called by mime ;) Oct 27 15:45:04 I realy think the ideal would be to have iPhone-like categories icon view at the top and collapsible trees underneath Oct 27 15:45:11 RST38h: if we assume it's loaded most of the time anyway then why not? ;) Oct 27 15:46:17 lardman: I hope I won't live to that time. = Oct 27 15:46:34 RST38h: it would be nice to use though, assuming it was quick enough Oct 27 15:47:23 how is the iphone itunes interface done? that works very nicely Oct 27 15:47:27 lardman: whatever it will be, you can be assured that it will be slow and buggy Oct 27 15:47:38 will eat memory too Oct 27 15:47:44 RST38h: lol, well we're talking about ideas here, not the end result Oct 27 15:47:50 will use memory, no need to eat it Oct 27 15:48:36 I automatically filter out unrealistic ideas Oct 27 15:48:46 hmm Oct 27 15:49:22 otherwise we will ebd up with another browserd Oct 27 15:49:29 s/ebd/end/ Oct 27 15:49:29 RST38h meant: otherwise we will end up with another browserd Oct 27 15:50:36 I'm not saying it's ideal, but if we want something that looks good, and provides the info, and html is the easiest way to provide that info, then adding some sort of html rendering is the way to go Oct 27 15:51:09 I don't see that as being overly unrealistic, perhaps not as super quick as people might like, but if it makes people's lives easier (and multi-media richer) then why not Oct 27 15:51:38 doesn't make my life easier if I do not know whether it runs today or decides to crash Oct 27 15:52:12 and that has been my experience with "web environments" on mobile devices so far Oct 27 15:52:17 well that';s a fault in the renderer backend, nothing wrong with the idea ;) Oct 27 15:53:23 Each to his/her own, I think pretty is good (and the interesting bit is making it pretty and quick enough) Oct 27 15:53:34 You are like a typical compiler guy, blaming, in succession: 1) other compilers, 2) underlying OS, 3) programmer who write "wrong" programs, 4) CPU his compiler creates code for Oct 27 15:54:00 All I care about as a user is that this thing is snappy and does nto crash Oct 27 15:54:22 Don't care who is to blame. Oct 27 15:54:26 RST38h: if you don't attribute blame then nothing gets done Oct 27 15:54:59 lardman: If I avoid known pitfalls, I won't need to attribute blame, at least to the pitfalls I have just avoided Oct 27 15:55:14 ok, I understand that Oct 27 15:55:42 I just assume that if something isn't working properly, people will get round to fixing it if there's some interest in getting it done Oct 27 15:56:27 lardman: amusingly, no Oct 27 15:56:56 lardman: Just look at Java. Or any of XML standards. Oct 27 15:57:00 ah nice Oct 27 15:57:04 Why not embed browserd? Oct 27 15:57:04 qtnx builds fine Oct 27 15:57:07 I don't use any of them Oct 27 15:57:14 that's what it's there for. . . . Oct 27 15:57:14 and should be in extra soon Oct 27 15:57:21 aeh extras-devel Oct 27 15:57:22 lardman: oh, you should try, just not on the full stomach ;) Oct 27 15:57:28 GAN: Embed where? Oct 27 15:57:38 RST38h: if I did, and they annoyed me, I'd be motivated to start patching Oct 27 15:57:52 RST38h: I mean I have no need for them Oct 27 15:58:01 lardman: The amount of crap there is so incredible that you would probably walk away Oct 27 15:58:16 lardman: That is why they continue to be what they are Oct 27 16:01:26 Hrm, seems like the LCARS bug with application manager was fixed. Let me install LCARS to see if I can backport it. Oct 27 16:18:35 nice work on the app manager mod, qwerty12 :) Oct 27 16:19:04 t_s_o: Thanks :). Hopefully mvo can deem it invalid soon with a official release for diablo :) Oct 27 16:19:14 :P Oct 27 16:19:25 I'll carry on backporting his fixes meanwhile :P Oct 27 16:24:17 qwerty12: btw, that xterm mod was yours right? Oct 27 16:24:23 aquatix: yeah Oct 27 16:24:27 qwerty12: it has the same version as the official one Oct 27 16:24:36 so the appmgr wants to install that one again Oct 27 16:25:10 don't you have that problem? Oct 27 16:25:24 aquatix: Yeah, I didn't mess with that because nokia really may put out an update. You can edit the deb and change the version number (epoch it with -mod1 or something) or use apt-get pinning Oct 27 16:25:31 Yer, but I ignore it :) Oct 27 16:25:50 heh, kk :) Oct 27 16:26:04 it's sometimes convenient to hit `update all' though ;) Oct 27 16:26:38 I use apt-get upgrade and look at what wants to be updated and then use apt-get install :P Oct 27 16:27:02 fair enough Oct 27 16:27:20 i generally hit that blinking orange ! Oct 27 16:27:33 or hit the update button in appmgr compulsively ;) Oct 27 16:27:50 anyways, time to go home Oct 27 16:29:20 *grin* @ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7693386.stm Oct 27 16:29:31 lmao Oct 27 16:29:58 ugh, dont use a phone on the can, use a handsfree! Oct 27 16:30:28 t_s_o: then you have to fish out your bt headset ;) Oct 27 16:30:38 I feel sorry for the guy but I cant help laughing :P Oct 27 16:30:47 ghehe Oct 27 16:30:49 * aquatix neither Oct 27 16:30:58 anyways, going home Oct 27 16:31:00 ttyl Oct 27 16:31:39 nice wording, almost sounds like they say they had to saw his arm clean off Oct 27 16:31:42 The lcars bug is fixed, I'll rebuild the package with a fix in a min: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/appman/lcars.png Oct 27 16:34:39 * qwerty12 is sorry for sounding like a broken record btw Oct 27 16:37:42 Who's familiar with the osso-media-server dbus interface? Oct 27 16:46:00 hi - for anyone in germany - debitel has a new great umts contract for 25.50 euro plus an acer aspire one Oct 27 16:46:09 <- on new aspire one netbook :) Oct 27 16:46:52 argh, im touching the screen to click on stuff ... :) Oct 27 16:47:07 Hehe, how is it? :) Oct 27 16:48:35 god, the screen has all sorts of fingerprints on it Oct 27 16:48:36 dunno yet - it works - like it better than eee so far Oct 27 16:49:01 yes, curse this glare screen trend - but i live in dark rooms anyway Oct 27 16:49:11 heh Oct 27 16:49:46 the best part was i wanted internet NOW. so i walked into the store and walked out with some nice gear and immediate internet Oct 27 16:50:13 and the deal is the best one out atm... afaict ... so anyone in germany, check it out Oct 27 16:50:48 immediate internet :O Oct 27 16:51:04 i have an immediate internet in my mobile phone but maybe thats just us finns :D Oct 27 16:51:34 i do have an "immediate internet" (in terms of it works as soon as i walk out of the store) at home too Oct 27 16:54:19 getting a dsl hookup is not immediate. ordering a umts contract +hardware onlineis not immediate ... so i like this Oct 27 16:54:36 of course winxp is hurting like a corrosive lye... Oct 27 16:56:33 what's wrong with it? Oct 27 16:57:30 it just hurts me to use it. hurts like "the box" in DUNE Oct 27 16:57:43 you are way too sensitive :) Oct 27 16:57:49 true Oct 27 16:58:06 after some thorough cleaning and installing a few apps it feels ok Oct 27 16:58:21 i have visited 3 sites now with IE. wonder if this POS is trojaned zet Oct 27 16:58:30 FAR+FireFox+Miranda+WinAmp make it right Oct 27 16:58:38 what is FAR? Oct 27 16:58:52 can not google "FAR" Oct 27 16:58:53 Norton Commander for Windows Oct 27 16:59:02 http://www.farmanager.com/ Oct 27 16:59:07 Heh, SEFP must be most popular plugin for FAR :> Oct 27 16:59:15 oh ok Oct 27 16:59:18 ty sir Oct 27 16:59:22 qwerty: Among other things. Oct 27 16:59:37 pupnik: it lets you avoid Windows Explorer Oct 27 16:59:54 oki Oct 27 17:00:00 RST38h: Type far manager and see what google suggests. 8/10's are Sony Ericsson stuff Oct 27 17:00:22 I am not getting any SE stuff Oct 27 17:00:50 Ah, my bad, I mean as in google suggest :/ Oct 27 17:02:44 pupnik: preparing to install debian yet? Oct 27 17:07:06 no... will play with the windows side for a few hours to see what the hardware can do Oct 27 17:07:28 but gotta admit... the aspire one is a usable device Oct 27 17:07:54 * Mousey disagrees, they're all EeePC ripoffs Oct 27 17:08:05 hay guys, what's goin' on in here? Oct 27 17:08:09 ^_^ Oct 27 17:08:11 Mousey: you're a eeepc! Oct 27 17:08:34 Fatal: i have one, yah.. my only ubuntu box, everything else is debian Oct 27 17:08:45 oh, except my tablet is maemo Oct 27 17:08:46 ^_^ Oct 27 17:13:12 do we have streaming webcam for n8x0 camera yet? something that can generate mpeg2 stream or smth? Oct 27 17:13:58 * pupnik is experiencing an extended hsdpa orgasm atm Oct 27 17:14:11 heh, funny, i keep hitting personal menu when i should hit the main menu, and as i have switchonbt in the same place as extras is on the main menu... Oct 27 17:15:05 pupnik: You can generate a mjpeg one :/ : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20309&highlight=apache Oct 27 17:18:13 ty qwerty12 Oct 27 17:18:29 qwerty12: you have the best nickname ever for tab completion Oct 27 17:18:38 hehe Oct 27 17:18:48 q+tab Oct 27 17:19:00 pupnik: in finland dsl's do work immediately in some parts of the country. and at least in helsinki most of the households are on a tv-cablemodem-internet-dongle which works immediately, too Oct 27 17:19:32 u+tab is pretty lonesome aswell Oct 27 17:19:34 i would love to visit finland soon :) Oct 27 17:19:51 and getting an umts to work, via a phone or via an umts-dongle should be ready in minutes, hours at max Oct 27 17:19:52 ^ +1. Except you'll have to give me some years :P Oct 27 17:20:08 though our internets are kinda expensive :/ Oct 27 17:20:12 compared to sweden, at least Oct 27 17:20:14 or japan Oct 27 17:21:31 macoute: maybe in hellsinki Oct 27 17:22:25 you have really forgotten how it is here in the countryside :) Oct 27 17:22:48 solmumaha: and joensuu, jyväskylä, lehmo, riihimäki, uusimaa and tampere. at least Oct 27 17:22:55 thats from elisa.fi Oct 27 17:23:33 so we have sonera and local isp's still to check. but youre correct. not (even near) every part of finland gets its adsl's up and running so fast Oct 27 17:23:47 and where is Lehmo?! :D Oct 27 17:29:03 anyone know the code for |? Oct 27 17:29:08 is it "bar"? Oct 27 17:29:15 cuz "Bar" doesn't work Oct 27 17:35:26 Mousey: xev says it's "bar" Oct 27 17:36:52 mgedmin: thanks Oct 27 17:36:59 xev you say! Oct 27 17:37:05 * Mousey RTFM's Oct 27 17:37:07 so, what about x11vnc in extras? Oct 27 17:37:26 is that vnc SERVER? Oct 27 17:37:28 that'd be so hawt Oct 27 17:37:30 Mousey: xev is a program that shows you details about X events, including the keysym name for keydown events Oct 27 17:37:40 mgedmin: thanks Oct 27 17:37:51 it's *much* more convenient (well, less inconvenient) to use on a desktop than on a tablet Oct 27 17:37:59 although I believe there's a port in the tools repository Oct 27 17:38:08 Penguinbait did a wicked x11vnc which I updated for diablo among other things but it was built with dpkg-deb --build so I can't upload it :( Oct 27 17:38:24 so, no source package? Oct 27 17:38:32 Nope :( Oct 27 17:39:02 It's x11vnc trunk with xrdp and it uses a password to connect Oct 27 17:39:46 password is nice, but how do you set it? Oct 27 17:40:22 Run a program called vncpassword as the normal tablet user Oct 27 17:40:26 *vncpasswd Oct 27 17:40:55 Then when you connect via a vnc viewer or rdesktop, you are asked for that password that you set Oct 27 17:46:20 whee, that x11vnc package from garage has a bunch of .jar file inside Oct 27 17:48:32 yay vnc for my broken-screen n810 Oct 27 17:48:42 for some reason clicking on the app menu doesn't work Oct 27 17:49:17 Yeah, that plugin depends on pressure info... Oct 27 17:49:34 but os2008 no longer differentiates taps from finger presses! Oct 27 17:49:37 You can apt-get source hildon-desktop and modify the application plugin if you want :/ Oct 27 17:49:50 actually, did it ever do that for the apps menu? Oct 27 17:50:12 Yeah, in OS2007 afaik, you would get a different sized menu Oct 27 17:50:18 depending on what you tapped it with Oct 27 17:50:32 I remember that for the window list, but not for the app menu Oct 27 17:50:53 I could be wrong, I only used OS2007 for 10 mins :P Oct 27 17:51:21 so, is there a "forget all my passwords" option somewhere? Oct 27 17:51:32 I'd reflash, but then I wouldn't have ssh + vnc, so the n810 would be completely useless Oct 27 17:51:45 For the browser or virtual keyboard? Oct 27 17:53:10 mgedmin: the screen is comepletely broken? Oct 27 17:53:26 for all practical purposes, yes Oct 27 17:56:40 mgedmin: that's happened to me twice Oct 27 17:56:47 but i just got it back from repair yay^_^ Oct 27 17:57:36 okay, the browser has 'clear all personal data' Oct 27 17:58:40 so there is a vnc server for maemo, but it has caveats? Oct 27 17:59:36 Mousey: yep Oct 27 18:00:25 hmm, the control panel has a 'clear device...' option that sounds intriguing Oct 27 18:01:47 /etc/osso-cud-scripts contains scripts it will run if you select that Oct 27 18:02:18 idea for x11vnc: map left-click to tap and right-click to finger press Oct 27 18:02:40 is there a way to distinct them easily? Oct 27 18:02:52 pressure info i guess.. Oct 27 18:03:01 the size does differ, but does that count? Oct 27 18:03:05 applications are not removed: good Oct 27 18:03:10 documents are removed Oct 27 18:03:22 what about ~/.ssh/authorized_keys? Oct 27 18:03:31 btw Oct 27 18:03:40 because if I lose that, I'm completely locked out Oct 27 18:03:42 does anyone use modest w/ several mailboxes? Oct 27 18:03:48 i dont seem to get it working Oct 27 18:04:02 * Stskeeps continues with his minimal ubuntu maemo Oct 27 18:04:12 i have the accounts there and it says that updated last five minutes ago, but my testmail doesnt show up there Oct 27 18:05:45 I use modest with 2 accounts Oct 27 18:05:47 works fine Oct 27 18:06:04 I find that I need to explicitly hit the refresh icon in the toolbar Oct 27 18:06:42 oops Oct 27 18:06:50 did the clear device thingy Oct 27 18:06:53 mgedmin: ive tried that too.. Oct 27 18:06:59 now it apparently won't autoconnect to my wifi Oct 27 18:09:55 is there a difference between modest and the stock email program? Oct 27 18:10:24 Mousey: no Oct 27 18:10:45 interesting Oct 27 18:10:49 it does load up my messages Oct 27 18:10:54 but they arent anywhere Oct 27 18:11:11 it said loading 1/1700 or so, and asked me to verify the certificate Oct 27 18:11:12 i find mail reading to be cumbersome Oct 27 18:11:18 but, no mail, anywhere Oct 27 18:11:23 Mousey: cumbersome? Oct 27 18:11:33 im not familiar with the word Oct 27 18:11:59 i finally got server side filtering to work, so i don't care about modest's lack of client side filtering, but the app still kinda feels weird to use for mail reading Oct 27 18:12:09 macoute: awkward Oct 27 18:12:15 lardman: thanks Oct 27 18:12:37 awkward due to large size/shape is the meaning I understand anyway Oct 27 18:12:37 i too think that all the email-clients ive tried on tablet are plain bad Oct 27 18:12:40 claws mail is the technically best client i've used, but i detest that it's UI is suited more for mouse/stylus.. i can't use my fingers Oct 27 18:13:10 and even claws mail have the most annoying feature for such a slow device Oct 27 18:13:14 modest i can use my fingers, but there's UI changes i'd make if I could Oct 27 18:13:25 opening every message in a completely new window Oct 27 18:13:32 thats one of the things that i really dislike about modest Oct 27 18:13:33 that's retarded, yah Oct 27 18:13:34 the ui Oct 27 18:13:34 is there a client which doesnt do that? Oct 27 18:13:54 it takes 4-6 seconds to just CHECK if the message is the one you are looking for Oct 27 18:14:02 on a finger friendly tablet there is no easy way to switch between account views Oct 27 18:14:11 it's only annoying as there's significant delay associated with new windows, otherwise is does sort of make sense Oct 27 18:14:12 macoute: well there might be a way to configure clawsmail NOT to do that, it has a TON of configuration options.. which i like. Oct 27 18:14:15 you also cant change fonts in the app Oct 27 18:14:29 Mousey: ive tried searching for it but with no luck so far Oct 27 18:14:41 yah.. mail seems like it would be such a win on the device Oct 27 18:15:00 but so far the mail apps are just skimming above fail Oct 27 18:15:08 god i wish i could code Oct 27 18:15:27 and guys, WHEN is modest checking for new messages on the background and when not? Oct 27 18:15:27 i am trying to make some time to start a new mail app project Oct 27 18:15:30 how to tell that? Oct 27 18:15:30 or at least had any influence. i know what i'd change to make it useful Oct 27 18:15:34 a finger friendly client Oct 27 18:15:52 i mean, open modest, close it from X, send yourself a message and blue led starts blinking Oct 27 18:15:58 but why? Oct 27 18:16:11 moontiger: if you have the skillz, i'd urge you to just change modest's ui to something usable =) Oct 27 18:16:21 is modest completely open source? Oct 27 18:16:31 macoute: good question about when it's checking, I've been wondering that too Oct 27 18:16:44 I just want a client that handles multiple IMAP folders and doesn't choke on 20,000 messages in a folder. Oct 27 18:16:46 lardman: they should have a notification applet Oct 27 18:16:51 well that would require the backend not to be a pile of crap code too Oct 27 18:16:55 and i dont know that yet Oct 27 18:17:01 derf: pine? :) Oct 27 18:17:10 I've been using webmail. Oct 27 18:17:18 pine is kind of slow for imap. Oct 27 18:17:22 mutt? Oct 27 18:17:24 i havent seen a imap-client which could do that, derf Oct 27 18:17:28 mutt then Oct 27 18:17:34 20k messages is a bit overkill for one folder no? Oct 27 18:17:40 Seamonkey works just fine, bur, you know, not on a tablet. Oct 27 18:17:44 *but Oct 27 18:17:51 does it? Oct 27 18:18:06 Yes. Search-as-you-type is still fast with that many messages. Oct 27 18:18:12 and actually, you shouldn have 20,000 messages at all Oct 27 18:18:18 not in single or several folders Oct 27 18:18:23 Well, tell people to stop sending them to me. Oct 27 18:18:33 no, im telling you to delete them :) Oct 27 18:18:40 Are you crazy? Oct 27 18:18:47 That's how I remember everything. Oct 27 18:18:59 do you have all your snail mails in folders? Oct 27 18:19:08 or all your receits? Oct 27 18:19:15 No, they're in piles scattered around because I'm too lazy to organize them. Oct 27 18:19:18 * Mousey has all his snail mail in folders.. blames wife Oct 27 18:19:45 then why should you have your friend saying 2 and a half years ago "hey man, lets go to a beer!" organized forever? Oct 27 18:20:01 Who said anything about organized? Oct 27 18:20:02 macoute: so you can remember who owes you one? Oct 27 18:20:15 20,000 messages in each folder is not organized. Oct 27 18:20:16 so you can defend your alibi in court? Oct 27 18:20:17 lardman: good point :) Oct 27 18:20:29 derf: i think you got the point still Oct 27 18:20:41 do you have all your sms:s archived too? Oct 27 18:20:51 or recordings of your phone calls? :D Oct 27 18:20:52 Of course not. I don't carry a cell phone. Oct 27 18:21:03 "ok" Oct 27 18:21:21 But the point is, you're unlikely to change my behavior at this point. Oct 27 18:21:27 maybe if you did, you wouldn receive 20,000 mails which choke your client. :) Oct 27 18:21:28 i know. Oct 27 18:21:50 And I will continue to use webmail until someone writes a real client that doesn't suck. Oct 27 18:22:00 but from experience i know that users tend to value their email more than it deservers value. i did that myself too Oct 27 18:22:12 derf: I have the same problem with my Windows desktop, lots of stuff on it, I have recursive desktop/old_desktop/old_desktop/old_desktop/old_desktop etc :) Oct 27 18:22:28 I fairly regularly need to dig up messages from 2 or 3 years ago. Oct 27 18:22:49 but after i lost about 2000 mails (and crying for 2 hours) i realized, that there was really nothing THAT important Oct 27 18:22:55 and that was my work mail Oct 27 18:23:41 derf: of course you do, but if you really have some information in your email that is not available anywhere else, you are kinda living on the edge Oct 27 18:24:06 That is what automatic backups are for. Oct 27 18:24:06 but well Oct 27 18:24:51 derf: dont worry, im not going to delete your mails. just tried to make you think if they really are so important Oct 27 18:24:57 but well, people collect stamps too Oct 27 18:25:27 I wouldn't be crying if they all vanished. Oct 27 18:25:31 But disk space is cheap. Oct 27 18:25:37 thats true Oct 27 18:25:51 And I'd rather have them than not. Oct 27 18:25:55 but filesystems (and like) suck Oct 27 18:26:29 Shall we discuss smoking next? ;) Oct 27 18:26:47 lardman: im going now, so cant join :) Oct 27 18:26:51 (to a cigarette) :) Oct 27 18:26:58 :) Oct 27 18:27:12 but of course, you all could try and convince me not go :D Oct 27 18:27:38 Anyone here know if there's a way to get info out of osso-media-server? I'm trying to hack together something to play songs with it, but I can't figure out how to tell when the song ends. Oct 27 18:27:38 lucky suggestion on my part Oct 27 18:27:49 Nah, go right ahead. But of the two "bad" habits, I'd rather collect old e-mails than smoke. Oct 27 18:28:00 maybe :9 Oct 27 18:28:04 and this is for me http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/00b9a680/463c5922 Oct 27 18:32:13 I've been hurting for a decent way to play music ever since I got my 770, about 3 months ago. Oct 27 18:32:59 KamikaziFreak, just suck it up and order guitar lessons Oct 27 18:33:15 thats the only real way you will play music Oct 27 18:33:24 Hey, I'm working on the harmonica. It's smaller than the handheld. Oct 27 18:33:42 better battery life as well i bet Oct 27 18:34:30 Nah, it's shot. I've got to put it back in the harmoni-charger after about 25 minutes. Oct 27 18:35:26 And since I haven't found an mp3 decoder compiled to run on a wind instrument yet, I've been trying to make do with the 770. Oct 27 18:38:13 Currently I've got a perl script that reads a playlist, and passes each filename over to mplayer. That works ok, but for some reason mplayer loves to cut off the last 3-5 seconds of every track. Oct 27 18:39:06 interesting, is that as it used the dsp decoder hack? Oct 27 18:39:08 sounds a bit off Oct 27 18:39:12 s/used/uses Oct 27 18:39:15 what happens when you do it manually Oct 27 18:39:30 lardman : C:\Documents and Settings\Gary\My Documents\oldstuff\older\oldold\old\oldx\old Oct 27 18:39:49 lcuk: lol, looks pretty similar Oct 27 18:39:51 \real-old-stuff\ Oct 27 18:39:51 So I'd like to change it over to use osso-media-server via dbus, but I don't know how to tell when the song is done (the current script waits until mplayer exits). Oct 27 18:40:02 lcuk: I should go through the 20GB of data in there sometime Oct 27 18:40:13 I'm not sure why mplayer does that. Oct 27 18:40:25 btw, lcuk, ain't you doing all your stuff on the tablet? that did not look like a tablet path Oct 27 18:40:27 Why it cuts off the end, I mean. Oct 27 18:40:49 i wriote a program to display an explorer type window which showed folder total sizes - i cleaned up about 100GB in lost iso files - all thats left is small or required Oct 27 18:41:04 RST38h, i have a desktop still Oct 27 18:41:21 KamikaziFreak, if you play it manualluy what happens Oct 27 18:42:06 lcuk, what do you mean by "manually"? Just running mplayer straight from the command line? Oct 27 18:42:20 just running mplayer interactively Oct 27 18:42:41 does it still chop off the song Oct 27 18:43:54 and does your perl script just push the massive list to mplayer in one gob, or does it wait for mplayer to ocmplete before continuing Oct 27 18:44:04 There isn't an interactively. I don't have a frontend installed, except "GMPlauncher", which I never use. I'm trying that now, though. Oct 27 18:44:32 KamikaziFreak: from the command line Oct 27 18:45:15 The perl script sends one song at a time; the script suspends while it waits for the call to mplayer to end, then goes on and passes the next song in a new instance of the program. Oct 27 18:46:17 lcuk: heheh +) Oct 27 18:46:19 add a sleep(1) in between calls? Oct 27 18:46:26 Hmm, actually I have two scripts that I use; one to play a playlist, and one to play my whole folder of songs on random...and that one just uses one command with a wildcard for the filenames. Oct 27 18:46:59 I use the random one a lot more. It may be the only one that has problems. Oct 27 18:47:20 or you dont miss the last few seconds of an album as much Oct 27 18:47:44 just add a sleep of required time to give the system a chance to flush buffers? Oct 27 18:47:55 heh lard Oct 27 18:48:02 * lcuk hasnt been reading much recently Oct 27 18:48:11 No, not sleep. the "system" command in Perl sends a command to the shell, and waits for that process to end. Oct 27 18:48:18 too dark due to the snow and sleet up North? ;) Oct 27 18:48:21 any system that requires you to "use a random time sleep" is broken Oct 27 18:48:30 (ok, except ethernet) Oct 27 18:48:40 and microsoft access cross process calls Oct 27 18:48:47 (but i wouldnt know anything about that) Oct 27 18:48:57 oh look, a leaf Oct 27 18:49:00 or anything that writes to the Windows registry Oct 27 18:49:35 i think we just backed up RST38h's hypothosis Oct 27 18:49:43 Ok, I think it's just when I pass all the files in a big glob to mplayer that it chops off the ends. Oct 27 18:49:44 yep. Oct 27 18:50:19 KamikaziFreak, change your bulk transfer into lots of individual ones Oct 27 18:50:25 KamikaziFreak: are you using the dsp decoder hack? Oct 27 18:51:03 What's that hack? I don't know, I've just got some mplayer package. Oct 27 18:51:34 can you pastebin the mplayer output when you play something on the command line? Oct 27 18:51:54 Do what now? What's pastebin? Oct 27 18:52:09 I'm just wondering if mplayer forgets that the dsp uses a reasonably large buffer, and resets the dsp before the buffer has been used up Oct 27 18:52:21 resets the task, not the dsp that should be Oct 27 18:52:27 ~pastebin Oct 27 18:52:28 [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste Oct 27 18:53:00 SSLL Oct 27 18:53:05 derf ... then maybe you wont find a mail client that works for you Oct 27 18:53:09 just saying is all Oct 27 18:53:35 my nit got hot today and turned off before end of day Oct 27 18:53:39 hiya moon Oct 27 18:53:47 hey lcuk :) Oct 27 18:54:04 lol, I was thinking hairy palms for a minute there Oct 27 18:54:27 i would type a response but i cant see the keyboard Oct 27 18:54:43 moontiger: As I said, webmail is functional. Far from optimal, but at least I can read my mail with it. Oct 27 18:54:46 man im tired today Oct 27 18:54:52 Which is more than I can say for the built-in client. Oct 27 18:54:54 LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG day - Oct 27 18:55:12 As far as passing mplayer all the filenames individually...that's gonna get really tedious for playing back everything on shuffle...I can dump everything into an array and pull random filenames out of it I guess. Oct 27 18:55:26 derf, if i get time to try to write a mail client making it work well with 20k emails in an imap folder *wont* be my top priority Oct 27 18:55:29 KamikaziFreak: see the top option here: http://mplayer.garage.maemo.org/maemo-options.html Oct 27 18:55:45 <--- teaching an tired :| Oct 27 18:55:46 moontiger: That's okay. Using your client won't be my top priority. Oct 27 18:55:54 hehe :) Oct 27 18:56:24 derf, the point is i think the tablet isnt really suited to that kind of load Oct 27 18:56:24 That's in more than one imap folder, by the way. Oct 27 18:56:41 oh well if its organized then it should be possible to make it functional Oct 27 18:56:47 Half the imap clients seem to forget that part, too. Oct 27 18:56:49 lardman: So, you mean use -ac dspmp3 ? Oct 27 18:56:52 i read that as 20k per folder Oct 27 18:57:01 well imap servers are to blame too Oct 27 18:57:01 lcuk: Right. 20k or so each. Oct 27 18:57:22 KamikaziFreak: no, I was wondering if you were using it (should say when you start mplayer playing); if so that might explain why you lose the end of songs Oct 27 18:57:38 KamikaziFreak: not a solution, just trying to work out what's happeneing Oct 27 18:57:45 you should stop using email Oct 27 18:57:51 bbiab Oct 27 18:57:58 cya lardman Oct 27 18:58:01 i have like 500 emails max on my nit Oct 27 18:58:09 email clients should display no more than 100 mails in any one folder Oct 27 18:58:13 and then prevent adding more Oct 27 18:58:25 or at least use a virtual list of some sort Oct 27 18:58:29 If they did that, I would stop using e-mail. Oct 27 18:58:30 to page thru a large data set Oct 27 18:58:31 Because that's just dumb. Oct 27 18:59:21 Yeah, e-mail clients should do whatever the heck you'd like them to do, because it's the computer and your the user. Oct 27 18:59:21 moontiger: That's what webmail does. It's very cumbersome, but at least it works. Oct 27 18:59:22 i can barely talk, ive got 4000 unread mails in main folder Oct 27 18:59:23 maybe like games programming where you only allow say 500 emails to be downloaded at a time then cache out if newer ones come in Oct 27 18:59:49 like have the ids and titles in the list but the contents are limited to a reasonable number Oct 27 18:59:54 lcuk: rm -rf Oct 27 19:00:04 thats only bandwidth limitations moony Oct 27 19:00:09 that way u wont be trying to store 20k emails on the nit Oct 27 19:00:22 not really ... storage is an issue too Oct 27 19:00:27 It's imap. It's designed not to store things on the client. Oct 27 19:00:28 and working memory on the nit Oct 27 19:00:35 nit should self-destruct once it reaches 99% builting storage use Oct 27 19:00:37 rstC:\Documents and Settings\Gary>rm -Rf Oct 27 19:00:37 'rm' is not recognized as an internal or external command, Oct 27 19:00:37 operable program or batch file. Oct 27 19:00:41 right derf but a lot of ppl do download the messages Oct 27 19:00:53 this will show those suckers how to litter it with emails! Oct 27 19:01:05 hahaha Oct 27 19:01:10 lcuk: Install Cygnus tools. Oct 27 19:01:25 It's only about 1.4 GB of mail. Oct 27 19:01:32 lcuk: This way you will be able to finish off your email any time Oct 27 19:02:02 but 20k msgs even in a db with minimal storage per record would be a large amount of memory Oct 27 19:02:04 ive given up, most were notifications that replies arrived, i would just open browser without fishing through mails Oct 27 19:02:20 I've heard a lot of people bash the built-in e-mail client, but it's always worked great for me. Oct 27 19:02:22 not really moontiger Oct 27 19:02:35 KamikaziFreak: It couldn't even open my inbox. Oct 27 19:02:48 It churned at it until it ran out of memory and rebooted the tablet. Oct 27 19:03:01 i was thinking to use a sqlite db for backing storage and build a front end that was finger friendly Oct 27 19:03:03 So, less than optimal user experience. Oct 27 19:03:03 I suppose that would suck. Oct 27 19:03:09 builtin email client used to suck donkey ass Oct 27 19:03:15 it is a bit better now Oct 27 19:03:37 i mean really ... talking to a pop / imap server isnt that hard Oct 27 19:03:59 moontiger, be our guest Oct 27 19:04:13 im sure the current client started in exactly the same way Oct 27 19:04:14 Yeah, telnet is the way to go for e-mail. I'd do that, if it worked right with gmail. Oct 27 19:04:23 when ive moved to madrid next month i will start a simple cmd line version to test out the protocol stuff Oct 27 19:04:49 Screw clients. Oct 27 19:05:19 lots of companies do Oct 27 19:05:24 hahaha Oct 27 19:05:35 i was thinking a search interface is the only way to go Oct 27 19:05:40 \no list view as such Oct 27 19:05:47 apart from "todays emails" Oct 27 19:05:53 well thats your bugbear Oct 27 19:05:57 just a progressive search interface Oct 27 19:06:22 moontiger: it is not hard unless you start getting all fancy and multithreaded on it Oct 27 19:06:31 which of course u need to Oct 27 19:06:36 i *think* liqbase should be able to handle 20k items Oct 27 19:06:38 but really thats not that hard either Oct 27 19:06:39 quite easily Oct 27 19:06:47 moontiger: not necessarily ;) Oct 27 19:07:18 i used to write games in asm with multiple threads and processors so an email client cant be so hard Oct 27 19:07:24 Use Perl! Oct 27 19:07:29 remember that the standard Unix installation is never getting multithreaded on emails Oct 27 19:07:29 Any proper UI supports a list view with an arbitrary number of items. Oct 27 19:07:35 It's all text! Oct 27 19:07:39 no KamikaziFreak lets let him code up email in asm Oct 27 19:07:45 it will be worth it for the lol\ Oct 27 19:07:48 it will be worth it for the lolz Oct 27 19:08:05 in fact, standard Unix didnt have thread APIs for years Oct 27 19:08:56 im not gojng to code it in asm Oct 27 19:09:02 awww Oct 27 19:09:08 i was just saying ... mutli-threading isnt that hard as a concept Oct 27 19:09:12 duh! Oct 27 19:10:08 derf, the screen is small enough that a list containing 20k items would be a pain to scroll thru no? Oct 27 19:10:48 why painful? unless its standard gtk tiny nobble hitting lists Oct 27 19:11:06 moontiger: one word: deadlock Oct 27 19:11:29 ive just adapted liqase to create 25 sketches per sketch - ive got over 1000 now, lets see.. Oct 27 19:11:33 I've seen very, very few developers that could write multithreaded code correctly. Oct 27 19:11:35 gtk will choke on 20k list (see Maemo file manager) Oct 27 19:12:33 Is that because it's doing lots of crap to figure out the appropriate icon for each file, or because it's actually making a GtkWidget for each item? Oct 27 19:13:03 prolly the latter Oct 27 19:13:17 derf, i multithreaded the loading for sketches in liqbase and it was poorer than my inline variation Oct 27 19:13:17 In that case, that's just dumb. Oct 27 19:13:23 there are several issues there though Oct 27 19:13:39 one is its propensity to scan every single subdirectory of the current one Oct 27 19:13:47 i think im gonna run out of memory soon Oct 27 19:14:04 second is its strange habit of memmapping 130+MB memory Oct 27 19:14:09 Hah. Oct 27 19:14:22 third is the gtk slowness on many entries Oct 27 19:14:41 I tend not to use the file manager at all, so this is not really an issue to me. Oct 27 19:15:00 Still waiting for a decent file manager on maemo: MC comes close but gets broken by Maemo's xterm Oct 27 19:15:17 derf: Well every now and then I do have to manage scores of files Oct 27 19:16:17 RST38h: XFCE4's? Oct 27 19:16:28 RST38h, huh? Oct 27 19:17:09 nemo: Not yet ported Oct 27 19:17:14 what happens when app fills memory? Oct 27 19:17:15 nemo: You will be the first :) Oct 27 19:17:26 lcuk: gets killed afaik Oct 27 19:17:35 moontiger: what? Oct 27 19:17:36 1481 root RW 118M 1478 81.3 95.8 liqbase Oct 27 19:17:43 RST38h, deadlock Oct 27 19:17:53 lcuk: is it actual or just requested? Oct 27 19:17:59 lcuk: see with htop Oct 27 19:18:08 actualy, ive just set it the task of loading 25k sketches Oct 27 19:18:17 not found Oct 27 19:18:17 RST38h: I felt like my 770 was crippled until I found a package for MC. What doesn't work about it? It seems to work fine for me. Oct 27 19:18:23 btw those 81.3/95.8 numbers are unhealthy too Oct 27 19:18:26 scrolling is still fluid Oct 27 19:18:30 its loading Oct 27 19:18:45 Kamikaze: No mouse support and constantly showing on-screen keyboard makes it jump Oct 27 19:19:20 RST38h: really. that's odd. Oct 27 19:19:28 RST38h: you'd think XFCE4 would be a natural for low mem env Oct 27 19:19:31 moontiger: Programming multithreaded apps requires intricate knowledge of two things: deadlocks and race conditions Oct 27 19:19:37 esp being all gtk to avoid loading 2 sets of libs Oct 27 19:19:40 RST38h, i know Oct 27 19:20:01 moontiger: while threads themselves are easy, avoiding deadlocks in a complex multithreaded program which often waits on network resources is a bitch Oct 27 19:20:21 RST38h, ummmmmmm yes Oct 27 19:20:28 thats why they invented thread pools Oct 27 19:20:42 RST38h: Do you use the xterm that gives you a sidebar? I have "Enter" on the right side, and set commands based on file extensions or whatever. No keyboard popping up needed. Oct 27 19:20:42 moontiger: If you do not use threads and just stick to the normal producer/consumer model with processes (fork() etc), you will be much safer Oct 27 19:20:53 ahhhhhhhhh right Oct 27 19:20:57 terminology Oct 27 19:21:00 Kamikaze: oh, no, I am using the standard one =( Oct 27 19:21:00 thnx yes Oct 27 19:21:32 so its true that threading isnt a stable under linux as processes? Oct 27 19:21:35 PgUP/PgDOWN/Enter. Those are the most useful things ever to add to it. Oct 27 19:21:40 windows uses threads very well Oct 27 19:21:50 moontiger: linux kernel threads *are* stripped down processes Oct 27 19:21:58 moontiger: but they are stable Oct 27 19:22:00 RST38h: Get it. xterm-advance, or whatever it's called. Oct 27 19:22:14 moontiger: it is what you DO with threads that may cause problems, Linux or Windows, does not matter Oct 27 19:22:25 so why not use them then if they are lighter weight processes and stable? Oct 27 19:22:30 Kamikaze: Tried it - the sidebar thing is broken, not showing labels right Oct 27 19:22:42 moontiger: you do not get data insulation Oct 27 19:22:53 and your file handles are shared between threads Oct 27 19:22:57 RST38h, i appreciate the advice but i have been programming for a little while now and i do know some of the things u are telling me :) Oct 27 19:23:00 sockets too Oct 27 19:23:31 moontiger: Good. Now imagine a random Indian learning about threads and using them in the project you are managing Oct 27 19:23:40 moontiger: Scary, yes? 8) Oct 27 19:23:44 liqbase hit a wall: 1481 root RW 196M 1478 11.7158.1 liqbase its starting to get slower Oct 27 19:23:59 RST38h, nationality aside yes i understand :) Oct 27 19:24:28 mootiger: And THAT is why I always suggest 1) using full processes and 2) use straightforward producer consumer model Oct 27 19:25:15 I just stopped doing things that required threading. Oct 27 19:25:19 It's made me a lot happier. Oct 27 19:25:19 mootiger: This does nt let your Indians trash stuff and cause deadlocks Oct 27 19:25:39 derf: There is exactly 1 (one) thing that requires threading in Linux Oct 27 19:25:46 RST38h: and how well does your programs scale to several processors? Oct 27 19:25:46 RST38h, but if its just me and i know what im doing i can use threads and get a performance boost Oct 27 19:25:50 derf: It is called select() :) Oct 27 19:26:00 Or poll(). Oct 27 19:26:05 derf: Yep Oct 27 19:26:22 macoute: Same or better than multithreaded ones as they do not need to share address space Oct 27 19:26:43 moontiger: And if your app deadlocks, you blame it on the kernel! =) Oct 27 19:27:04 Nah, you can still deadlock independent processes pretty easily. Oct 27 19:27:10 * lcuk is pleased liqbase can handle that much data Oct 27 19:27:13 Depending on your communication mechanism. Oct 27 19:30:22 derf: Yes, but lack of easy communication mechanism constrains your inner Indian making him think twice :0 Oct 27 19:31:30 You obviously haven't seen mediocre programmers try to use sockets. Oct 27 19:31:37 I assure you, there's no thinking involved. Oct 27 19:32:15 I worked as a TA for a while Oct 27 19:32:28 So, I have seen mediocre programmers do al kinds of things =) Oct 27 19:38:20 RST38h, not that it makes me a good programmer by default but i have been coding for 24yrs now Oct 27 19:38:31 so i have done a few things in my time :) Oct 27 19:39:17 moontiger: But not everyone is like you Oct 27 19:39:24 That is the problem. Oct 27 19:39:34 i know Oct 27 19:39:43 and im damn sure i dont know everything Oct 27 19:39:54 so advice and help is always appreciated and taken in Oct 27 19:40:08 * RST38h is always following the KISS principle Oct 27 19:40:12 right Oct 27 19:40:17 me too Oct 27 19:41:01 or, as Russians put it, "90% of manufacturing operations can be done with a hammer and a file" Oct 27 19:41:05 Keep Innovating Supercool Systems Oct 27 19:41:18 macout: Keep It Simple Stupid Oct 27 19:41:28 RST38h: i know :) Oct 27 19:45:53 RST38h: That tends to take time and muscle, though Oct 27 19:46:17 * XTL is a big fan of small sharp tools ideas Oct 27 20:07:48 Hello all! Oct 27 20:08:34 ehlo. Oct 27 20:09:56 I know I am a tiny wee bit off topic, but I can't find help from mojo... Here goes: would anyone like to tell me how to install mojo on my N810 (my PC runs Ubuntu)?? Oct 27 20:10:21 Bilaw: a lot of pain and tears Oct 27 20:10:22 :P Oct 27 20:10:30 to this extent, Stskeeps? Oct 27 20:10:31 you'd probably want to look at deblet instead Oct 27 20:11:03 since it's more user oriented Oct 27 20:11:13 that saying, it's not impossible to make mojo run. Oct 27 20:11:24 I think it was you (or was it johnx?) who suggested deblet, only an internet search did not return anything... Oct 27 20:11:50 http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet Oct 27 20:11:54 server was down so Oct 27 20:12:15 As you can gather, I am not exactly a computer geek. But I know what a shell is, so I figured I could manage... Oct 27 20:12:35 (I'll go look up this site, thank you!) Oct 27 20:13:24 well, anything but maemo on tablets is bit black magic :) Oct 27 20:13:39 Wow. But I don't like maemo very much... Oct 27 20:13:50 UI or system? Oct 27 20:13:50 Oh, yes, Yes, YESSSS: http://gizmodo.com/5069412/igameboy-theme-if-the-iphone-were-around-two-decades-ago Oct 27 20:14:31 fame or? :P Oct 27 20:14:41 ah Oct 27 20:14:46 Er... in my case, I mean both... Oct 27 20:14:55 ""There is -no- warranty. This may blow up your MMC, steal your wife or cause doomsday to come around"" Oct 27 20:15:00 --- I like that! Oct 27 20:15:10 fine, give me your wife Oct 27 20:15:11 ;> Oct 27 20:15:17 the wife part or the doomsday part? Oct 27 20:15:32 I love it all: chaos may ensue. That's me! Oct 27 20:16:00 (I am the type of guy who can hardly resist shoving his suits in the washing machine, juste for the sake of it, you see...) Oct 27 20:16:14 (so imagine w/ computers!) Oct 27 20:16:45 * Stskeeps is playing some more with mojo/hasty in jffs. http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/ubuntumin.txt Oct 27 20:16:59 i'm really amazed what you can squeeze into 69m flash Oct 27 20:18:07 (this is without any sort of space savers beyond a minimal ubuntu base) Oct 27 20:18:37 gzipped binaries I reckon? Oct 27 20:18:45 jffs2 compressed, yeah Oct 27 20:19:56 150m uncompressed Oct 27 20:19:59 Just wondering...If i had a webcam, could i use it within scratchbox ? Oct 27 20:20:12 to "emulate" the n810 cam ? Oct 27 20:20:37 maybe, if /dev is pulled over to sb Oct 27 20:41:23 ... I can now see why you favour Deblet over mojo, Stskeeps!! Oct 27 20:43:20 i don't favour either over the other :P Oct 27 20:43:25 Ok, who wanted EMUlib source code? Pupnik? Oct 27 20:43:28 even though i work on deblet Oct 27 20:47:37 Damn it! By the look of it, I need a wifi connection running while installing. I don't. So I can't try it right away... Oct 27 20:48:13 aye.. you can disable the check though, if you get net in other ways Oct 27 20:48:46 (look in /usr/libexec/deblet/deblet_installer.py Oct 27 20:50:22 (hang on, is this a directory I shall see when I have installed the whole thing?) Oct 27 20:53:13 when you've installed the installer Oct 27 20:53:54 N800 and N810 both use same audio code - TLV320AIC33? Oct 27 20:53:58 *codec Oct 27 20:54:53 Stskeeps, that reminds me, i never gave you the source for that start-internet program, i'll dig it out for you tomorrow Oct 27 20:55:25 k Oct 27 20:59:10 Is there a better schematics for N8xx than the one I have? Mine is very blurry and starts at page 10-4 Oct 27 20:59:33 zap, n810 ones are in good quality Oct 27 20:59:45 where do I get them? :) Oct 27 21:00:14 hehe... give me a min if someone cannot answer you faster :p Oct 27 21:00:33 zap: You wanted frame buffer source code? Oct 27 21:00:40 * Stskeeps wonders what he can use his 69m jffs image for, if anything Oct 27 21:00:46 qwerty12_N800: I'll be very grateful Oct 27 21:01:05 RST38h: no, for now I'm just interested emulators to be faster :) Oct 27 21:01:12 do you use pixel doubling and other tricks? Oct 27 21:01:18 zap, sure. lemme get the links :) Oct 27 21:12:23 Stskeeps: I am going to leave my attempt at installing deblet for the time being. There are things I -- not surprisingly -- do not understand. I'll try and catch you earlier on thur or friday, if you're willing to help! Oct 27 21:13:00 bilaw, welcome to the club, ive been in a state of not understandedness for the last 9 months Oct 27 21:13:55 hopefully lcuk youre not as dense as I am when it comes to computers (and they call me "geek" at the office! What a joke!)! Oct 27 21:14:41 heh Oct 27 21:15:32 (simply because I KNOW how to use macros on Word(R)!) Oct 27 21:15:49 -- have you been trying to install deblet too then, lcuk? Oct 27 21:16:20 no, before this year i knew nothing about linux itself (barring ooohing and ahhhing at livecds and the like) Oct 27 21:16:30 i still know sweet FA about it Oct 27 21:16:42 * lcuk waves his hands about Oct 27 21:17:12 * lcuk couldnt fight his way out of a root console with FULL man support Oct 27 21:17:21 dont worry, you r tasted it. chance are you re already an addict and dont even realise it :) Oct 27 21:17:23 though those words surprisingly have meaning now Oct 27 21:17:32 * Bilaw sympathises terribly w/ lcuk Oct 27 21:18:23 melmoth :) when i understand it THEN ill rebuild it Oct 27 21:18:29 If were talking linux, I s'ppose I am already an addict. But I tried Debian and could not make myself understood by it. So I went back to nice Ubuntu... Oct 27 21:19:01 -- now if were talking maemo/N8x0, that's another story... Oct 27 21:19:07 * qwerty12_N800 needs to recompile uptimed and remake that quick script to upload my records to me webspace :/ Oct 27 21:19:33 qwerty12_N800, dont you mean so you hack it not to show the times you reboot :P Oct 27 21:20:18 lcuk, I'm actually saintly honest in that regard :p Oct 27 21:20:30 bilaw, i dunno - i could probably figure out whats goin on inside another debian system now Oct 27 21:20:33 I'm off, gentlemen (and gentlewomen?). It was good to talk. I'll see you around. Oct 27 21:21:06 bilaw, always good to talk :) have fun Oct 27 21:21:14 And you! Oct 27 21:22:35 * lcuk needs front facing camera. Oct 27 21:24:02 lcuk, for the liqbase camera rotation stuff? Oct 27 21:24:19 for liqbase, the camera rotation bug is secondary Oct 27 21:24:33 k Oct 27 21:24:36 i need to see something and how something will work before i can advance something Oct 27 21:24:54 and its a bit fecked up rotating 810 round doin what i want and flippin it back Oct 27 21:25:15 * lcuk has a solution though :) Oct 27 21:28:34 qwerty12_N800, did you see the actual berlin presentation i did? Oct 27 21:28:54 lcuk, no, i haven't seen it yet :( Oct 27 21:29:10 its at the top of maemo.org now http://maemo.org/ Oct 27 21:29:37 gets out most of what i am doing with lb :) Oct 27 21:29:50 and the bug i found Oct 27 21:29:52 ok, *fingers crossed* that flash will play it good :) Oct 27 21:30:02 oh yeah you are on 800 Oct 27 21:30:05 get on a big machine Oct 27 21:30:31 lcuk: the conference presentation? Oct 27 21:30:33 i can't :. Oct 27 21:30:34 that one was nice :) Oct 27 21:30:35 :/ Oct 27 21:30:46 yes Oct 27 21:31:09 * lcuk kicks his apple bt keyboard for presisng space the whole way through presenetation Oct 27 21:31:22 ah :) Oct 27 21:31:29 was that why you had issues starting it? Oct 27 21:31:35 yes :) Oct 27 21:31:37 s/it/liqbase Oct 27 21:31:40 heh :) Oct 27 21:31:44 stars was meant to show until a key is pressed Oct 27 21:31:51 aight Oct 27 21:31:54 it flummoxed me Oct 27 21:32:10 i noticed :) Oct 27 21:32:31 thankfully it's rule number one of conference presentations Oct 27 21:32:36 so noone blames you Oct 27 21:33:08 * aquatix is gone again Oct 27 21:33:10 ttyl :) Oct 27 21:33:42 * qwerty12_N800 sees if there is python app or something to grab vimeo videos :) Oct 27 21:37:15 qwerty12_N800, you can grab the native original feed i believe Oct 27 21:40:11 stupid tablet... Oct 27 21:40:38 lcuk, yeah, i downloaded the flv, mplayer rc2 should play it fine :) Oct 27 21:41:42 not stupid tablet, we could really do with an intermediate binary to intercept all flash and block everything properly until clicked. but this same binary middleman can also watch for specific flash players and forward media directly to mplayer ;) Oct 27 21:42:26 *or* we could have properly implemented flash player Oct 27 21:42:45 i would still prefer a middleman Oct 27 21:42:50 that does not flood the system with gettimeofday() calls Oct 27 21:43:01 i want clicktoplay for all flash media Oct 27 21:43:07 on a device like this it should be the default Oct 27 21:43:20 RST38h, still not acknowledged? Oct 27 21:44:24 qwerty: Well, it appears to be the bug that hangs browserd Oct 27 21:44:50 :/ Oct 27 21:44:52 qwerty: You probably remember that I was directly told by timeless to shut up about reconsidering browserd usefulness Oct 27 21:45:05 The guy threatened to ban me from bugzilla basically Oct 27 21:45:30 yeah, i remember :\ Oct 27 21:46:17 As to flash player, nobody seems to be responsible for it, but if you want to look further into this bug, it is here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3703 Oct 27 21:50:38 lcuk, mplayer options -framedrop -lavdopts skiploopfilter=all and i'm getting something watchable finally :p Oct 27 21:51:39 heh qwerty12_N80O Oct 27 22:15:41 modem de mes c*****es Oct 27 22:23:05 hellomoo Oct 27 22:26:47 so.. windows seems to be unable to deal with spotty umts connections.... Oct 27 22:27:10 * pupnik is sitting on a 3rd story porch and things working nicely Oct 27 22:28:01 what can I use to intercept html form post event data? Oct 27 22:30:23 on device? Oct 27 22:30:35 anywhere really Oct 27 22:30:48 nice to see u lardman and lcuk Oct 27 22:30:57 well you could use a packet sniffer Oct 27 22:31:00 hiya pupnik Oct 27 22:31:00 wireshark Oct 27 22:31:01 hi pupnik, how are you? Oct 27 22:31:15 happy as a slowly boiling frog! ..... mmmmm warm Oct 27 22:31:32 :) ... new toys.... Oct 27 22:31:53 ahhh you DID visit the red light zone in amsterdam then Oct 27 22:32:00 slowly boiling frog??!! Oct 27 22:32:04 * moontiger laughs Oct 27 22:32:22 Ethereal me thninks should do the job Oct 27 22:32:38 lardman, :D my berlin presentations up Oct 27 22:33:10 no just picked up a great deal on umts/hsdpa plus an acer aspire one... 0 euro downpayment, 500 euro worth of hardware, and 24 month contract @ 25.50/mo Oct 27 22:33:23 lcuk: good stuff Oct 27 22:33:23 wireshark = ethereal Oct 27 22:33:29 url lcuk ? Oct 27 22:33:36 pupnik: thanks Oct 27 22:33:39 pupnik, top of maemo.org Oct 27 22:33:46 nice :) Oct 27 22:34:04 yeah simon, i deffo did better than linuxtag :D Oct 27 22:34:14 pupnik, did you get the pink one :)~ Oct 27 22:34:34 * moontiger ducks Oct 27 22:34:35 got the last one they had - white... nice little device! no bluetooth but .... Oct 27 22:34:54 i did get a pink strap for the umts stick (tmobile) Oct 27 22:34:55 not as pocketable as n8x0 tho right? Oct 27 22:35:10 no but hopefully will get the umts usb stick working on tablet soon Oct 27 22:36:05 gtg anyway, back later Oct 27 22:36:46 * pupnik watching lcuk presenting liqbase now Oct 27 22:37:13 pupnik, have any idea what model the stick is? i know dannym compiled a lot of modules for umts sticks Oct 27 22:37:38 webnwalk from tmobile used to be huawei E169 - no idea what this is.... Oct 27 22:37:46 may have to buy a 2nd stick Oct 27 22:37:56 ah, ok Oct 27 22:38:02 very nice qwerty12_N80O Oct 27 22:39:02 hey how did you guys get the beamer thing running at maemo summit? very nice Oct 27 22:41:09 beamer? Oct 27 22:42:55 lcd projoector Oct 27 22:43:23 oh well very nice demo lcuk Oct 27 22:43:59 i like how you manage screen real estate... the way things are big and use all of the screen Oct 27 22:44:29 the 'menu metaphor' is oldschool pc-appendage Oct 27 22:44:38 vestigal imo Oct 27 22:44:45 like tailbone! Oct 27 22:44:54 where is this alleged presentation? Oct 27 22:45:27 http://linuxuk.org/maemo_lightning_part3 Oct 27 23:00:19 I installed contactinfos, but when it reports : error while loading shared libraries: libhildonwidgets.so.0 Oct 27 23:05:19 hi hellwolf.... did you try googling the error? Oct 27 23:08:08 why in diablo is missing minesweeper game? Oct 27 23:08:40 because this isn't windows :p Oct 27 23:10:46 i think maemosweeper or something is in extras[-devel] Oct 27 23:15:30 it's true. thanks Oct 27 23:27:33 argh this winxp is killing me - constantly hitting the hard drive, despite 1GB ram... wtf is it doing? no idea... Oct 27 23:27:40 i HATE that Oct 27 23:27:56 pupnik: try and change to vista :D Oct 27 23:28:13 * pupnik opens his freezer of trout Oct 27 23:28:15 my vista is slow as hell w/ 3 GB RAM and a quite decent dualcore Oct 27 23:28:32 PLUS, taskmanager shows free memory and 1-2% cpu utilization Oct 27 23:28:43 "evil inside" Oct 27 23:28:47 so, a million dollar question is whats happening? Oct 27 23:28:54 as I surely dont know. Oct 27 23:28:58 "progress" Oct 27 23:29:01 i'm sure a win guru would know Oct 27 23:29:18 i really would be keen to migrate back to linux Oct 27 23:29:22 pupnik: head here and get something that will tell you http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/default.aspx Oct 27 23:29:32 ty sir Oct 27 23:29:35 ive been windows-only (on desktop) for like 4 months Oct 27 23:30:22 sounds like... someone held a gun to your head macoute Oct 27 23:30:36 wow nice link lardman Oct 27 23:30:58 I presume it will be possible to fake an HTTP POST event using Python Oct 27 23:31:43 yes, apparently so; good Oct 27 23:31:56 hah that sysintitnals siite is keeling ffox Oct 27 23:32:37 hmm, works ok for me with ff3 Oct 27 23:32:53 3.0.3 to be precise Oct 27 23:32:54 hahahaha mcafee internet security suite just popped up "restart computer to finish installation of these programs" Oct 27 23:32:59 i didn't install anything Oct 27 23:33:23 Microsoft: ASS TO MOUTH Oct 27 23:35:21 pupnik: my boss did :D Oct 27 23:35:46 well, he's so out of the ict-pictures that if i said that could we change to linux, he actually would agree Oct 27 23:35:55 that's how it goes... Oct 27 23:36:00 but then, id need to work 25 hours a day for 8 years Oct 27 23:36:07 what is ict-pictures? Oct 27 23:36:27 ICT = information communication technologies, i suppose Oct 27 23:36:45 i meant, that he doesnt know a thing about computers Oct 27 23:38:00 ah, new acronym for me Oct 27 23:39:00 heh Oct 27 23:39:06 bttery gone on the acer Oct 27 23:39:16 lulz... p.o.s... Oct 27 23:39:20 bbl Oct 27 23:42:11 does python gpsbt use the generic interface to the gps - i.e. it can use internal or external devices? Oct 27 23:43:03 you're on a mission simon :D Oct 27 23:43:37 yeah, thought I'd wrap the tube/bus route finder webpage in a nice easy to use app Oct 27 23:43:54 :D nice one Oct 27 23:44:27 as I was in Londinium at the weekend and could have done with something quick (rather than needing to open the browser) + GPS integration would be cool Oct 27 23:44:27 does each route have to be manually entered for now (would assume so) or have bus companies started releasing info Oct 27 23:44:55 Transport for London handle the bus routes and tube ones, looks pretty good Oct 27 23:45:05 with gps coords i mean Oct 27 23:45:29 http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/user/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en Oct 27 23:46:41 so will need a location db of tube stops/bus stops, or a reverse lookup of the postcode/address Oct 27 23:47:02 should be doable anyway Oct 27 23:47:46 yer, might be an idea to see if its recorded on osm perhaps Oct 27 23:48:03 if not, the first time a user uses the system they could offer coords Oct 27 23:48:07 otherwise a google query should return what'd needed I guess Oct 27 23:48:09 lardman, there was an excellent program for public transport planning on PalmOS Oct 27 23:48:20 yacoob: do you have a name? Oct 27 23:48:41 Métro is your free guide on Palm to public transport systems worldwide (400 cities covered now). Oct 27 23:48:45 MetrO Oct 27 23:48:49 lardman, I don't know what kind of functionality you have in mind, but having a general 'bus/tram/train/metro planner' would be awesome Oct 27 23:48:49 cool Oct 27 23:49:03 yacoob: yeah, that was my thought Oct 27 23:49:09 lardman, http://www.szulat.republika.pl/przewodas/ - good luck in finding things out :D Oct 27 23:49:22 :D my basic map jpeg did this for me in berlin - i hope something proper works for the next summit ;) Oct 27 23:49:29 (yeah, it's in .pl :/) Oct 27 23:49:44 who writes polish? no-one undestands that one :) Oct 27 23:49:49 hmm Polish, one of the many languages I don't (yet ;)) know Oct 27 23:49:55 http://www.nanika.net/Metro/ Oct 27 23:50:21 i think you should start with Helsinkis tram/metro/bus-guide :) Oct 27 23:50:22 i-Métro is a route calculator on (almost) every subway system in the world and many tram & bus systems too! Oct 27 23:50:27 online version there lardman Oct 27 23:50:40 actually, its already ready as a www-service, so coding would be simple Oct 27 23:50:57 though offline-usage would need something more Oct 27 23:51:36 whoa, metro has improved since! Oct 27 23:51:45 ...too bad I don't need it anymore :) Oct 27 23:51:48 (nor Przewodas) Oct 27 23:52:18 Dublin's bus system is most hellish abomination I've ever seen, and thus unusable, DART is simple enough to keep it in my head. Oct 27 23:52:34 yacoob: actually, is that http://www.szulat.republika.pl/przewodas/ some official page? Oct 27 23:52:37 (plus, I've made a stylish mac osx widget to display next trains :) Oct 27 23:52:43 nice Oct 27 23:52:50 ah, no :) Oct 27 23:52:52 macoute, yup. That's author's page. I don't think it's being developed. Oct 27 23:53:15 yacoob: yup, i thought it was something like the official pages of your public transportation company Oct 27 23:53:18 :D Oct 27 23:53:22 ahhh, no no no :) Oct 27 23:54:02 but i like this one http://aikataulut.ytv.fi/reittiopas/fi/ Oct 27 23:54:04 best kind of cooperation I've ever seen from transportation company was 'well... we don't really mind those geeks scraping our website and putting data offline' Oct 27 23:54:17 in finnish, but so simple that you dont need to know any finnish :) Oct 27 23:54:20 In one case they've even provided csv dumps of data Oct 27 23:55:26 on below, you can have your own routes presaved, the red square is exception in traffic, and then there is from and where fields Oct 27 23:55:28 its quite common yacoob, people like to know timetables and routes and getting more folks informed means they are usable Oct 27 23:55:29 looks like i-metro also scrapes the data for Helsinki Oct 27 23:55:42 i-metro? Oct 27 23:55:43 scrapes or is given Oct 27 23:55:44 for mac? Oct 27 23:55:54 http://imetro.nanika.net/metro Oct 27 23:55:58 scrapes for the online version I guess Oct 27 23:56:00 for web or wap Oct 27 23:56:08 lardman, in my opinion having offline planner is way better, but that's only me Oct 27 23:56:08 the Helsinki metro does not need any help :D Oct 27 23:56:16 but will need to look at the html/js and see what there is to see Oct 27 23:56:19 there is one track west, other one east Oct 27 23:56:36 timetables? Oct 27 23:56:36 yacoob: yes, but time consuming for whichever city Oct 27 23:56:39 its cold up there Oct 27 23:56:50 lardman, how about downloading metro, and using their data? Oct 27 23:57:05 cos they offer a service Oct 27 23:57:07 lcuk: our stations are mostly underground plus the metros go every 3-6 minutes Oct 27 23:57:15 if you want the data i assume they will tell you to go upstream Oct 27 23:57:25 but imetro offers metro+tram+ferries+buses Oct 27 23:57:29 so thats cool Oct 27 23:57:55 im sure that helsinki will give you all the data you need :) Oct 27 23:58:11 yacoob: yes, that's an interesting option Oct 27 23:58:58 they might not like it... at the same time, you might just talk to them about coding maemo version. Oct 27 23:59:12 in any case, I need some sleep, or I'll be zombiewalking tomorrow. Oct 27 23:59:17 night. Oct 27 23:59:21 b) i-MetrO is also available to other web services providers. These providers must first obtain a written (e-mail) authorization from the "AUTHORS" to include the "PRODUCT" in their own service. Oct 27 23:59:23 same here, night Oct 27 23:59:35 i-MetrO may then be integrated in an external service, provided that a) its use remains entirely free of charge for the end user, b) no revenue may be derived, directly or indirectly from the integration Oct 27 23:59:37 gnite lard Oct 27 23:59:46 lcuk: offline routing would be good, with updates online is available Oct 27 23:59:56 anyway, I'll look into it tomorrow, time for bed Oct 27 23:59:58 night all Oct 28 00:00:09 yes - they do have an offline version Oct 28 00:00:09 gnite Oct 28 00:02:35 lcuk: who? imetro? Oct 28 00:02:45 yes Oct 28 00:02:50 hmm, sounds cool Oct 28 00:02:59 but to bed i go Oct 28 00:03:00 heh Oct 28 00:03:09 gnite macoute Oct 28 00:33:59 I can't get canola to start Oct 28 00:34:03 I installed it from maemo-extras Oct 28 00:34:11 I click it ... and it spins for a while, then...nothing Oct 28 00:35:39 * pupnik hasn't used canola yet Oct 28 00:36:03 can you maybe start it from the command-line - see if it spits-out an error leachim6 ? Oct 28 00:36:20 yeah, I'll do that...sorry for being so vague Oct 28 00:36:21 :) Oct 28 00:36:23 canola -vvv Oct 28 00:37:15 pupnik IS MISSING OUT Oct 28 00:37:40 * Mousey is avid canola <3er Oct 28 00:38:09 canola's so slow for me Oct 28 00:38:21 it has a nice podcast interface though Oct 28 00:38:47 does canola get faster after its completely scanned all your media? Oct 28 00:38:58 ? Oct 28 00:39:02 It scans at startup. Oct 28 00:39:07 It doesn't scan when in-use Oct 28 00:39:26 what if i plug in memory card with it runnin? Oct 28 00:39:41 or run it as soon as its installed Oct 28 00:40:12 omg! the windows XP task-bar refusing to rehide bug STILL HASNT BEEN FIXED! Oct 28 00:40:36 * pupnik falls all overhimself laughing Oct 28 00:40:43 and i thought i was slacking... Oct 28 00:40:52 are you sure thats a bug in yourversion pupnik - with a MID doesnt it make sense that you cant just swipe near it Oct 28 00:41:34 dunno lcuk - i've been dealing with the win taskbar refusing to stay hidden for like 5 years or so Oct 28 00:42:00 designed for touchscreen - they were ahead of their time :P ;) Oct 28 00:42:07 hahaha Oct 28 00:43:53 lcuk, probably nothing. Oct 28 00:43:57 But I'm not the right person to ask. Oct 28 00:44:32 i simply recall it not havin any media and i couldnt find a way to make it show up even after i selected the right base path Oct 28 00:45:47 l7, you say you like the podcasts, do you have a central place to download them into? is there any way to get at itunes data from wifi/usb nokia? Oct 28 00:53:02 lcuk, they're just RSS feeds Oct 28 00:53:13 Add the RSS URL to whatever aggregator you want to use. Oct 28 00:53:40 yeah, but unlike the fruity kind you have to manage them and select them and download them from tablet - instead of it just being a quick sync operation Oct 28 00:54:02 Seen gpodder? Oct 28 00:54:52 no, but i will if it can do even some of what i have just said Oct 28 00:55:02 Look at the name. Oct 28 00:55:17 .nod. Oct 28 00:56:12 * GeneralAntilles is pissy from his nap. Oct 28 00:56:27 I'm tempted to cook up a whole thing of bacon and slap it on some bread Oct 28 00:56:32 I know I'll die of a coronary, though. Oct 28 00:56:42 its called a pig Oct 28 00:56:54 and you can never die from bacon overdose Oct 28 00:57:25 Well, that "pig" is currently sliced into small strips and vacuum-sealed in plastic in my fridge. :P Oct 28 00:57:26 if you do happen to die, you simply know you used too much bread - next time use thin crust Oct 28 00:57:43 I don't have any lettuce, anyway. Oct 28 00:57:57 i had a mega BT for same reason at weekend Oct 28 00:58:20 lettuce just hides the bacon Oct 28 01:00:21 well that just stomps on my parade Oct 28 01:00:51 its not for windows, but ill get it once i get a linux desktop :) thanks for the heads up GeneralAntilles Oct 28 01:01:09 Just use it on the tablet. Oct 28 01:01:45 http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f247/karen8577/funny-pictures-bacon-not-done.jpg Oct 28 01:02:11 thats what i want to get away from - i would prefer some nice front end to manage my media and filter down what i want for a trip Oct 28 01:02:16 pupnik, :D:D:D Oct 28 01:03:46 :) Oct 28 01:03:51 lcuk, then just grab whatever Windows podcast manager you want and use a cronjob to sftp it to the tablet. Oct 28 01:05:52 not exactly the interface i had in mind GeneralAntilles ;) Oct 28 01:06:02 Why? Oct 28 01:06:07 It does exactly what you're after Oct 28 01:06:14 You don't even have to do anything once it's set up. Oct 28 01:06:29 thought the backend may very well end up working that way, i doubt its usable by my 6 year old Oct 28 01:07:07 * lcuk is looking for a more rounded experience Oct 28 01:07:32 Once it's set up Oct 28 01:07:41 * lcuk would like to incorporate jaffas encode thingy and podcasts and music searches and sketching stuff and photos etc Oct 28 01:07:43 Your 6-year-old just has to add his favorite feeds to the manager. :P Oct 28 01:07:58 Podcasts are rarely outside of the tablet's capabilities. Oct 28 01:08:18 podcasts are just music files? Oct 28 01:08:41 Or video files. Oct 28 01:08:49 It's just an RSS feed that points at media files. Oct 28 01:08:59 There's no magic to them. Oct 28 01:09:15 heh yeah - most of the podcasts i hear about are audio Oct 28 01:09:31 * lcuk listens to a lot of radio Oct 28 01:09:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podcast Oct 28 01:10:03 yeah i know technical aspects - just didnt engage brain Oct 28 01:10:20 so jaffas convert WILL be useful Oct 28 01:10:55 Like I said, most podcasts don't really tax the tablet's video playback abilities Oct 28 01:11:02 Maybe some of the h.264 stuff Oct 28 01:11:07 but that's not particularly common. Oct 28 01:11:21 yeah, but its also capacity Oct 28 01:11:55 i have perhaps 500mb free and available - i could get my weekly casts into there easily and listen at work or wherever Oct 28 01:12:11 but you might want to put 32gb Oct 28 01:12:22 Well, are you watching video podcasts? Oct 28 01:12:29 An hour-long MP3 podcast is about 25MB Oct 28 01:12:47 at Oct 28 01:12:49 32kb/s Oct 28 01:13:45 no i dont watch much video on device - prefer big tv Oct 28 01:14:28 technically i dont listen often, but if it can be configured and managed easily i might: tracy uses itunes downstairs and it works (she has a tiny 1gb nano but a massive collection) Oct 28 01:14:59 pupnik, well, I've got a 59 minute podcast from This American Life ah 64Kbps that's 27MB. Oct 28 01:15:12 compression varies Oct 28 01:15:16 btw, Lew Rockwell has done a great series of podasts relevant to the financial crisis http://www.lewrockwell.com/podcast/ Oct 28 01:15:17 depends on content Oct 28 01:15:34 lcuk, it's not variable compression. Oct 28 01:15:58 who has xcalc handy Oct 28 01:16:18 nm.. Oct 28 01:16:40 GeneralAntilles, 1minute of silence takes a lot less disk space than 1 minute of busy noise Oct 28 01:16:53 not with CBR encoding Oct 28 01:17:01 CBR = constant bitrate Oct 28 01:17:20 lcuk, it's constant bitrate. . . . Oct 28 01:17:28 You're thinking of VBR Oct 28 01:17:30 Which isn't what this is. Oct 28 01:18:06 no Oct 28 01:18:10 im thinking of mp3 Oct 28 01:18:14 No Oct 28 01:18:21 You're thinking of a VBR encoded MP3 Oct 28 01:18:27 Which isn't all MP3s Oct 28 01:18:45 all that happens with CBR and VBR is that the resolution and available fidelity changes Oct 28 01:19:03 but the fact remains a silent piece of music is more compressable than a noisy one Oct 28 01:19:05 a rare case where lcuk is wrong.... /me enjoys Oct 28 01:19:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3 Oct 28 01:19:25 :) im not wrong Oct 28 01:20:00 i know it's more compressable Oct 28 01:20:13 the fact is, that a cbr encoded mp3 will consume a fixed bitrate per second of audio Oct 28 01:20:47 er, not strictily true - but mostly true Oct 28 01:21:11 there is the 'bit bucket' which allows for some variation in even cbr streams, but that's minor Oct 28 01:21:49 its exactly the same as jpeg in this regard Oct 28 01:22:54 a jpeg with low bitrate/quality setting looks blocky and ugly/sounds horrid and loses detail, but silence is silence and compresses to almost nothing (repeat this block 200 times) vs make one block to be 27432734234 and the next to be 2384283462 and the next to be 238742374 Oct 28 01:23:32 lcuk, what does "constant bitrate" mean? Oct 28 01:23:50 that the resolution does not change for the duration of the track Oct 28 01:24:17 'resolution' is not an accurate term in this context. the word is 'bitrate' Oct 28 01:24:21 that does not indicate how many blocks you send Oct 28 01:24:50 resolution is - its the number of bits you can use to store the waveform data for a particular instance in time Oct 28 01:24:56 ok, so we have a 128kb/s CBR mp3 stream. how many bits does that use in 2 seconds? Oct 28 01:25:04 256kb/s Oct 28 01:25:18 whether encoding a sinewave or white noise... Oct 28 01:25:30 s/256kb/s/256kb Oct 28 01:25:44 so ALL music that is compressed with that 128kb CBR file that last 2 minutes will always be the same length? Oct 28 01:25:56 same size yes Oct 28 01:26:27 vbr is an enhancement to mp3 that does what you describe Oct 28 01:26:48 lowers the actual data rate to match the information in the source Oct 28 01:28:25 man it's great to be back online... Oct 28 01:32:03 pupnik, is the world a happier place yet? Oct 28 01:32:59 the world in my head is, bigtimtime Oct 28 01:33:27 excepting the fact that i'm on winxp at the moment, and the fucking status bar just decided to obscure my text entry field Oct 28 01:33:52 what have you been up to GeneralAntilles - looks like you're a real motor in the maemo world now Oct 28 01:34:05 Crackin' the whip and making things happen. ;) Oct 28 01:34:19 Well, until important people disappear right from under my nose. Oct 28 01:34:19 thappy to hear that... sounds fun Oct 28 01:34:29 * GeneralAntilles shakes his fist in the air at jott and guenther. Oct 28 01:35:01 cracking the whip http://pupnik.de/arbeiten.gif Oct 28 01:35:27 Ha Oct 28 01:36:34 With WinXP? Oct 28 01:36:44 I'd figure you to be the absolute last person to ever use WinXP. Oct 28 01:37:11 was preinstalled... testing the new hardware atm Oct 28 01:37:35 need to be reminded how much i hate it every few months Oct 28 01:37:38 Aha Oct 28 01:37:40 Hehe Oct 28 01:37:53 I haven't been reminded in a while Oct 28 01:37:59 last time I used it seriously was in high school Oct 28 01:38:24 I just have to take the occasional exam in Firefox on XP at school lately. Oct 28 01:40:48 nice Oct 28 01:44:21 http://www.mp3-converter.com/mp3codec/huffman_coding.htm ;) Oct 28 01:45:24 a raw uncompressed frame of mp3 data at a particular bitrate consumes a fixed amount of memory, but prior to writing to disk it is encoded using huffman Oct 28 01:47:53 wow Oct 28 01:48:51 sorry pupnik :P i just had to follow my thinking - i knew huffman was involved somewhere along the way and has the effect i described Oct 28 01:50:09 thanks, i did not know that. Oct 28 01:52:34 * lcuk resolves to leave mp3 coding to lardman Oct 28 01:53:11 anyway, bedtime - gnite pupnik, GeneralAntilles Oct 28 01:53:12 lcuk, look how much cbr bitrate varies in *practice* though... http://kaosradioaustin.org/station/archives/6 Oct 28 01:53:15 ok gnite Oct 28 02:09:37 pupnik, i was wrong. the frame size is not changed by the compression Oct 28 02:20:14 * GeneralAntilles waits for the trademark page to load. Oct 28 02:20:22 I should get a stopwatch to time these things. Oct 28 02:44:37 Hi, is the ALSA driver usable on N810 ? Oct 28 02:45:05 I'm trying to using the ALSA driver but no sound output **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 28 02:59:57 2008