**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 01 02:59:57 2008 Nov 01 03:29:44 hi guys! Nov 01 03:30:11 it seems that, *again*, akamai is not working in my country, or unless in my ISP Nov 01 03:30:25 any other mirror than reporsitory.maemo.org? Nov 01 03:31:30 mmm esd doesn't sync the audio around the net - i'm getting drift Nov 01 03:31:41 what is akamai Nov 01 03:32:48 a SUPPOSED word wide plataform to speed up exchange Nov 01 03:33:02 obviously, is does not speed up anything for me :) Nov 01 03:41:41 blah. :-\ Nov 01 03:41:51 zimbra's external user web interface sucks balls Nov 01 03:42:01 it opens another browser window for a directory Nov 01 03:42:03 how fucking lame Nov 01 03:59:29 god bless Tor network Nov 01 04:00:10 and f@ck off akamai bullshit Nov 01 06:43:38 good mo(u)rning all Nov 01 08:32:22 * RST38h suddenly remembers it is Saturday Nov 01 08:47:54 n800 is to slow for vgba, isnt it? Nov 01 08:52:35 Hi everybody Nov 01 08:53:31 eichi: no, it should be ok Nov 01 09:01:22 RST38h, its to slow here cant play Nov 01 09:04:38 Someone know if the scratchbox works fine with Unbuntu 8.10 ? Nov 01 09:04:48 I'm using it fine. Nov 01 09:04:59 But, I have to run sysctl -p before running scratchbox Nov 01 09:05:09 Wait a sec, I'll get the sysctl.conf settings Nov 01 09:05:54 Thanks :) Nov 01 09:06:31 vincenzo88, as root: echo "vm.mmap_min_addr = 4096 Nov 01 09:06:31 " >> /etc/sysctl.conf Nov 01 09:06:45 Hrm Nov 01 09:06:56 Yes i have edited that in 4.04 Nov 01 09:06:59 8.04 thanks Nov 01 09:07:24 I don't know why but stupid intrepid won't read sysctl.conf on startup so before running scratchbox, I just do a sudo sysctl -p and compiling works fine Nov 01 09:07:38 hardy read it fine :( Nov 01 09:07:49 sysctl -p ? what is this command ? Nov 01 09:08:05 It reads the settings you put in sysctl.conf and applies them Nov 01 09:08:14 Ok ok :=) Nov 01 09:08:25 I will install 8.10 so ! Nov 01 09:09:46 You may find that the install docs that are in the same dir as the scripts useful too : http://repository.maemo.org/stable/diablo/INSTALL.txt ;) Nov 01 09:10:40 Yes my scratchbox work now... after 3 days of research :D Nov 01 09:11:07 works Nov 01 09:24:59 Hmmmm someone know how to create a shortcut of my Qt4 app on tool bar or desktop on N810 ? Nov 01 09:36:08 qwerty12: how does your wunder-kernel for maemo look? Nov 01 09:36:24 or is the point that it shouldn't matter, for the maemo itself? Nov 01 09:37:08 ? Nov 01 09:37:42 qwerty12: well, if you were to select what things a kernel should contain in maemo platform Nov 01 09:39:39 For me, it would have to be jott's rotation & pH5's patch to change the op mode on the fly. Nov 01 09:40:20 op mode? Nov 01 09:40:26 isn't that done by cpufreq or? Nov 01 09:42:13 No :(. Op mode regulates what speed the cpu is run at when the dsp is active etc. Op mode (I'm sure) overrides cpufreq and locks it to 330. a performance cpufreq can only run at 330 max when dsp is active Nov 01 09:43:14 Just a simple quest about CPU : what is the temperature of the N810' Cpu (400 Mhz) with full charge ? Nov 01 09:43:57 s/Op mode (I'm sure) overrides cpufreq and locks it to 330/Op mode (I'm sure) overrides cpufreq and locks it to 330 when dsp is active and 400 when it's not. Nov 01 09:44:30 ah Nov 01 09:47:10 * Stskeeps wonders how big maemo deep down base system is Nov 01 09:49:11 azerty12 ehlo Nov 01 09:49:30 ello FST38h Nov 01 09:49:40 invalid instruction Nov 01 09:49:45 muahahaha Nov 01 09:59:42 New spam: It's Kim . I'm looking for a business partner. I'm an online auction trader. Nov 01 10:00:16 Hello, Kim. It is so nice that your are an auction traderlooking for a business partner. Now fuck off. Have a good day. Nov 01 10:01:08 RST38h, heh. I've been getting f8 registration confirmations for some guy, that thought yacoob@gmail.com is his email address Nov 01 10:01:16 Hey, Kim. I'm looking for a partner too. You need to have in-depth knowledge of various "business" positions. Nov 01 10:01:19 then, he registered yacoob.yacoob@gmail.com... Nov 01 10:01:27 ...giving yacoob@gmail.com as his secondary Nov 01 10:01:45 hah, I'll spam that address too now :P Nov 01 10:02:03 I could have just reset his password, as the reset links goes to secondary... Nov 01 10:02:09 but I've politely explained things Nov 01 10:02:56 and after third or so oneline response in "English" ('halp my acont is not leting me in pls respond'), the message seems to have got through Nov 01 10:12:34 are you folks satisified with diablo? I'm about to upgrade from chinook, and read some adverse reviews Nov 01 10:12:40 so-so Nov 01 10:12:44 i love the updated osso-xterm Nov 01 10:12:45 :P Nov 01 10:12:52 no more ctrl (click a dialog box) crap Nov 01 10:12:59 the reviews say that diablo crashes a lot, and the email program lost functionality Nov 01 10:13:34 and modest sucks, admittedly Nov 01 10:13:39 i haven't had direct crashes though Nov 01 10:13:45 there are good and there's bad things Nov 01 10:13:51 The "reviews" are retarded Nov 01 10:14:19 i can always revert back, right? guess i'll give it try Nov 01 10:16:20 aye Nov 01 10:17:02 i suspect reverting back would be simple too.. since it'll be flashable at that point Nov 01 10:21:46 yacoob: KILL! Nov 01 10:22:09 unixSnob: just upgrade and forget abou it Nov 01 10:22:28 unixSnob: it is generally better (especially after few SSUs) Nov 01 10:22:36 where can i find upgrade instructions? I keep running into broken flash sites Nov 01 10:22:51 ~flashing Nov 01 10:22:51 ~ssu Nov 01 10:22:51 i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Nov 01 10:22:52 it has been said that ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU Nov 01 10:23:01 ty Nov 01 10:24:44 ~curse MSVC, Intel data alignment, and whoever defined that braindamaged U64 type Nov 01 10:24:45 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, MSVC, Intel data alignment, and whoever defined that braindamaged U64 type ! Nov 01 10:25:11 Moved on from MIPS cursing? :P Nov 01 10:25:57 GeneralAntilles: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed#Maemo_Minimal_Base <- anything here that's directly against what Nokia has said / policies or whatever? Nov 01 10:27:01 Would Ubuntu Mobile also be a perk? Nov 01 10:27:27 i'm honestly not sure it's such a perk, but it would be a possibility on top of this Nov 01 10:28:13 that'll come later in terms of design and such Nov 01 10:28:48 Looks fine to me. Nov 01 10:28:57 dear god, ubuntuists are using arch=arm for eabi? Nov 01 10:29:14 yes, i was kinda wondering about that too Nov 01 10:29:29 mother fuckers Nov 01 10:29:55 i'm sure if there's real interest from maemo towards using mojo, there might be changes :P Nov 01 10:30:01 as i'm sure the maemo devs think the same Nov 01 10:35:15 well, as far as I see the only reason to use ubuntu is that people have a positive association with ubuntu trademark Nov 01 10:36:38 * Stskeeps gets out debootstrap of lenny minbase to see Nov 01 10:36:46 suihkulokki: that, and upstart integration :P Nov 01 10:36:57 i mean, i had difficulties getting upstart going in debian :P Nov 01 10:37:17 (but yes, debian as a direct upstream may be better) Nov 01 10:37:39 from the perspective our base is based on ubuntu which is based on debian Nov 01 10:39:53 but that's all part of the discussion - doing a proof of concept proposal Nov 01 10:41:09 The fact that these people are still using arm-arch on hardy is really frustrating Nov 01 10:41:34 it means that they have purposfully patched the hardy dpkg to do it wrong Nov 01 10:44:01 *nod* Nov 01 10:45:03 so all the work to make sure people don't mix OABI and EABI binaries.. *flush* down the toilet Nov 01 10:46:48 isn't oabi sortof dead though? Nov 01 10:50:49 Stskeeps: there's still the existing installs Nov 01 10:50:57 mm Nov 01 10:51:18 suihkulokki: any opinion on busybox vs dash+coreutils+bsdutils on armel devices? Nov 01 10:57:25 Stskeeps: depends if the target audience is interested in seeing the command line in the first place :) Nov 01 10:57:26 eMoo Nov 01 10:58:19 true Nov 01 10:58:50 Stskeeps: but with 4G SD card going for 12€ busybox savings are bloody irrelevent Nov 01 11:21:01 i'm in the diablo setup, and it's asking for a "device name".. is this the name it will have on the network? Nov 01 11:21:15 No, that is seperate Nov 01 11:21:58 On the network, by default, it will be Nokia-N800-36-5 (Or N810) Nov 01 11:22:03 how is it used? Nov 01 11:22:24 Default Bluetooth name, shown in the file manager & application installer Nov 01 11:22:31 ty Nov 01 11:45:14 how to check battery status / charge status on n810? Nov 01 11:46:03 I'm trying to get an solution how to charge 1-2 mobile phones and 810 and bt-gps (usb) in a car Nov 01 11:47:06 now I have 12v->usb 5v,2A adapter which is feeding usb-hub and the devices are charged from the usb-hub. Nov 01 11:47:11 something is broken.. it's been stuck on restoring document files for like 10 minutes now -- at 9% Nov 01 11:47:55 nokia e61i, n810 and the gps are all charging, but I have no idea how much. Nov 01 11:49:16 kind of a nice solution as there is not too many extra cables flying around Nov 01 11:51:04 oilinki: usb hubs limit your output to 500ma per port, so you won't get full charging rates Nov 01 11:51:44 unixSnob_: I'm quite ok with that if the charge will at least extend the battery time. Nov 01 11:52:39 suihkulokki: well, i'm targeting 250mb flash, so Nov 01 11:52:51 (with possible unionfs stuff) Nov 01 11:53:03 feeew.. glad i didn't abandon.. it finally advanced to 10%.. it just takes a heck of a long time to restore apparently Nov 01 11:53:09 but can the usb-hub take more than 500mA in without extera input? now the 12v->5v,2A is feeding the hub via usb-cable Nov 01 11:54:02 oilinki: the hubs i've seen can accept 1A or more.. but each port only gets 500ma, or 100ma, in order to comply with USB specs Nov 01 11:54:45 unixSnob_: do you remember what is the full input for n810/n800/770 Nov 01 11:55:00 890 Nov 01 11:55:06 I recall someone said in the channel it's something like .. ok that Nov 01 11:55:14 thanks Nov 01 11:55:32 oilinki: i was doing the same thing in my car (when I had a car) Nov 01 11:55:55 i found 500ma to be adequite.. but then, i wasn't using it on the long term Nov 01 11:56:27 I would take a road trip, and chat and hit forums for maybe an hour or two per trip Nov 01 11:56:54 unixSnob_: I think that is quite nice as I'm able to use 220v->usb adapter while traveling as well. Nov 01 11:56:55 but then i also left with a full battery, so if there was an overall power deficit i may not have noticed Nov 01 11:58:16 it would be interesting to know how much power the NIT actually consumes when it's running full blast (high intensity setting, wifi, and bt going) Nov 01 11:58:31 I'm mainly using maemo-mapper while in the car. it does eat a lot of battery Nov 01 11:59:40 More than 890mA Nov 01 11:59:56 next thing I need to do the same for my scooter :) Nov 01 12:08:23 Hi there Nov 01 12:10:02 Hi dererk Nov 01 12:10:13 vincenzo88, :D Nov 01 12:10:30 :' =) Nov 01 12:20:13 interesting. i'd did a bit of testing with 2 different 220v-> usb adapters. 1st 500mA: n810 and gps are charging happily, but when I connect e61i to it. then the gps module start to flash charging light. Nov 01 12:20:35 qwerty12_N800: 89.5M uncompressed, 37m jffs2, forgot docpurge :) Nov 01 12:20:42 I also tried with e90 and when it was charging the gps-module was not charging at all. Nov 01 12:21:06 changed to 220v->usb 1A and all the devices seemed to be happy of the current. Nov 01 12:22:33 Stskeeps, that is some nice results :), when nokia stop supporting the N800, i'll flash your rootfs :p :) Nov 01 12:24:12 qwerty12_N800: i hope to make a hint that a sane platform for maemo is possible Nov 01 12:24:17 without all the horrible things Nov 01 12:25:40 my goal is Maemo "base" in 110mb flash Nov 01 12:25:42 or ideally 100mb Nov 01 12:26:33 :) Nov 01 12:45:43 12%.. holy shit... why would it take so long to restore? Nov 01 12:45:53 it took like 1 minute to backup Nov 01 12:46:17 do the document files have to go through some complex conversion? Nov 01 12:46:24 what are you doing, restoring from backup? and noo cle Nov 01 12:46:25 clue Nov 01 12:46:34 Clearly you restored something evil. Nov 01 12:46:51 yeah, took ~1min to backup chinook data Nov 01 12:47:36 it's been an hour to restore the "Document files" Nov 01 12:47:46 (so far) Nov 01 12:52:43 unixSnob_: how big is the backup file? Nov 01 12:53:01 i can't look right now Nov 01 12:53:21 actually, i can see it Nov 01 12:53:25 88mb total Nov 01 12:53:34 unixSnob_, you didnt by any chance backup a .tardis file did you? Nov 01 12:53:58 lcuk: not sure.. i just checked all the boxes Nov 01 12:54:21 lcuk, he's not a Doctor Who fan, evidently. Nov 01 12:54:22 hehe Nov 01 12:54:50 * qwerty12_N800 ain't but i gets the tardis reference :p Nov 01 12:54:50 heh Nov 01 12:55:56 crap! baconaise on my maemo.org tshirt Nov 01 12:56:50 unixSnob_, is it actually moving? or does it look frozen Nov 01 12:57:19 it looks frozen.. but it's just very slow. it appeared to be hung at 9% an hour ago Nov 01 12:58:01 Gentlemen, could somebody enlighten me on what SQlite is? Is it a library or a server? Nov 01 12:58:04 so if I wait an hour for every 2%, i can have this thing ready in 2 days Nov 01 12:58:33 RST38h, its open source cross platform database file Nov 01 12:58:45 like MS access ;) Nov 01 12:58:50 aha Nov 01 12:59:05 lcuk: Can I safely use it from PHP without being afraid that somebody will read my whole db file? Nov 01 12:59:23 why should you be concerned about people reading the whole file? Nov 01 12:59:37 its open source anmd the file format is documented and many things can read and write to them Nov 01 13:00:36 I am concerned about otherpeople reading DATA in the file Nov 01 13:01:45 lcuk: bacon and maemo is very connected Nov 01 13:02:14 RST38h, yes but it looks a mess dribling down the logo Nov 01 13:02:34 RST38h, an sqlite database is as readable as a text file Nov 01 13:02:47 if i want to examine the tables and read the data i can Nov 01 13:03:32 if thats nto what you want, make your own database format or encrypt all data before writing into the fields Nov 01 13:05:12 13%! hooorey! Nov 01 13:05:28 GeneralAntilles: is there a clear definition (you know, those box diagrams) of maemo platform anywhere? Nov 01 13:05:59 Stskeeps, i recall seeing a nice diagram showing all the software layers Nov 01 13:06:05 yeah, me too but where.. hm Nov 01 13:06:07 but that was many months ago Nov 01 13:06:07 Stskeeps, kinda sorta in the documentation somewhere. Nov 01 13:06:25 should i disconnect the USB cable at this point? could that be causing problems? Nov 01 13:06:48 We're Sorry Nov 01 13:06:48 Firefox had a problem and crashed. We'll try to restore your tabs and windows when it restarts. Nov 01 13:07:14 http://maemo.org/maemo_training_material/maemo4.x/html/maemo_Getting_Started/Chapter_01_What_is_maemo.html Nov 01 13:07:19 aww, that's nice of firefox Nov 01 13:07:38 it was Nov 01 13:08:10 Stskeeps, i think thats what i recall seeing (scroll down a bit) Nov 01 13:09:35 lcuk: ta Nov 01 13:11:21 I don't get the desire for a stylus-only UI. Nov 01 13:12:21 adaptable ui maybe Nov 01 13:12:38 I mean, sure, the Newton had a great stylus UI Nov 01 13:12:39 can be switched to be finger,stylus or lick Nov 01 13:12:40 i totally understand using a stylus for certain applications: i stopped finger painting when i was about 5 Nov 01 13:12:48 But Maemo certainly hasn't ever had anything close to that. Nov 01 13:13:13 like i have said - a decent ui should be fingerable Nov 01 13:13:40 it should be easy to use with finger or stylus without aiming Nov 01 13:14:31 a better ui involves imprecise actions with finger, but to do specific things use the stylus Nov 01 13:14:38 i agree. it's troublesome to take the stylus out and start using it. better without. Nov 01 13:15:20 (the menus in liqbase are all fingerable, but they have a 2mm nobble in the corner that you cannot hit with finger alone - these do not get in the way but can be used in specific circumstances) Nov 01 13:16:09 did anyone got PAN or any IP stack over bluetooth work? Nov 01 13:16:27 Stskeeps, finer, stylus or liq? Nov 01 13:17:10 hehe Nov 01 13:17:59 https://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN Nov 01 13:17:59 * Stskeeps ponders how to move from minimal system base to higher level.. Nov 01 13:18:10 bluetooth pan is awesome Nov 01 13:18:38 .. the thing, not always the app Nov 01 13:18:52 what do you cook on your bluetooth pan? Nov 01 13:19:15 * Stskeeps pokes w00t with a burning stick Nov 01 13:19:28 ow Nov 01 13:20:10 GeneralAntilles, Hi and thanks :) although I couldn finde the binaries that the howto points to :S Nov 01 13:20:24 ~extras Nov 01 13:20:25 rumour has it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Nov 01 13:21:03 checking Nov 01 13:21:53 does bluetooth pan increase latency? Nov 01 13:22:16 GeneralAntilles, ah, wasn't that Nov 01 13:22:18 this was http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto-bluetoothnetworking-dun-ppp Nov 01 13:22:25 don't know much how this works Nov 01 13:22:37 I just need it to have an ip :P Nov 01 13:23:05 I'm soon in the situation that I have to use gprs/edge for connectivity. now using joikuspot pro to share wlan connectivity. Nov 01 13:24:52 grps with joikuspot is no no for ssh connections. egde might do. I'm not sure how much latency the ad-hoc wlan routing does increase the latency, but would love to know if there is better alternatives. Nov 01 13:24:56 oilinki, does it work well ? Nov 01 13:24:56 joikuspot i mean Nov 01 13:26:03 muu: joikuspot itself drains the battery of s60 very fast. othervice ok. my problem is the latency in the thai mobile network. Nov 01 13:26:54 well its not like you are playin warcraft from your tablet (though you can play diablo ;) ) Nov 01 13:27:23 joikuspot itself is free with http/https connectivity. definately worth of trying. Nov 01 13:27:28 * dererk need just conectivity X) Nov 01 13:28:09 do anyone of you have "pand" binary? :S Nov 01 13:28:27 it's in bluez-utils-test Nov 01 13:28:30 joikuspot pro was the first and only mobile software I have ever bought. Nov 01 13:29:31 checking Nov 01 13:29:33 i have a symbian phone (e51), i'll try joikuspot, but i think battery will be very 'stressed' using gprs/umts + wifi... Nov 01 13:29:59 interesting, vala in HAF trunk Nov 01 13:29:59 muu: it does. Nov 01 13:29:59 i know there is another sw similar to joikuspot, but i don't remember the name ;-) Nov 01 13:30:19 muu, wifi eats the battery up Nov 01 13:30:31 bluetooth is really economic-saving Nov 01 13:31:00 qwerty12_N800, could you check from which repository? Nov 01 13:31:07 apt-cache policy bluez-utils-test Nov 01 13:31:09 muu: I'm a bit confused. the first versions I used eated the battery in couple of hours. new versions might be better. I have only used it with charger on. Nov 01 13:31:54 Stskeeps, there had been some discussion about which language should be added to the officially supported ones, don't recall the result. Nov 01 13:32:10 vala, vala, vala, vala, vala, vala, vala, vala, vala, vala, vala, Nov 01 13:32:11 python or vala? pfft :P Nov 01 13:32:13 dererk, 500 http://repository.maemo.org diablo/sdk/free Packages aka diablo sdk repo Nov 01 13:32:45 oh Nov 01 13:32:52 python is good in its own interpreted way, vala is compiled - they dont stamp on each others toes Nov 01 13:32:58 qwerty12_N800, never heard before about diablo braches Nov 01 13:33:02 qwerty12_N800, thanks! :D Nov 01 13:33:11 dererk: while I was traveling, I managed to get ad-hoc wifi working.. but not bluetooth connection on my laptop.. good reason to test the joikuspot :) Nov 01 13:33:37 oilinki, oh oh, well, that's the only option then :) Nov 01 13:34:01 oilinki, but there's a fact, bluetooth was concivied to be energy-saving gadgets Nov 01 13:34:21 dererk: with max 10KBps it's worth of not spending time with google :) Nov 01 13:34:50 XD Nov 01 13:34:52 hahaha Nov 01 13:35:37 dererk: true, bt is way better than wlan in certain cases. like when on the road with car. Nov 01 13:35:56 oilinki, what you mean? Nov 01 13:38:15 dererk: I need to drive every now and then about 900Km one way here in thailand. on my first trip I had joikuspot on e61i and maemomapper on n810. I also had couple of extra batteries... well after 500Km batteries were empty. Nov 01 13:39:14 next trips I used bt connection between the devices and I could go way further.. specially using the gps/map information on the destination where I really needed it. Nov 01 13:39:26 nokia should use duracells Nov 01 13:39:39 lol Nov 01 13:39:46 oilinki, pretty interesting! Nov 01 13:39:58 oilinki, (thailand! nice place!) Nov 01 13:40:16 in these cases need to find some solutions how to get all the way :) Nov 01 13:40:58 dererk: I know... that's why I live here ;) Nov 01 13:41:21 :D Nov 01 13:42:14 fuel cell Nov 01 13:42:38 :) Nov 01 13:43:03 lol Nov 01 13:43:08 in a way it's good to live here as there are different problems here as well. for people in europe or us it's difficult to understand the problems in here.. even what the veeeeery slow netwoks can do. Nov 01 13:45:01 muu, the day i have to have a drinking competition with my computer will be the day the machiens have won Nov 01 13:45:27 hih Nov 01 13:45:49 can I quote that? Nov 01 13:45:57 if you fix the typos Nov 01 13:46:34 lol Nov 01 13:46:45 hihihi Nov 01 13:47:14 beer vs Grappa match ? ;-) Nov 01 13:48:02 my maemo is running more processes than my pc, lol Nov 01 13:48:54 * dererk needs to speed-up this box, there's a little "detail" on running 2008he on a n770 :P Nov 01 13:49:22 dererk, are you a coder, or a user? Nov 01 13:49:42 lcuk, honestly, I consider I'm just in the middle Nov 01 13:49:57 * muu is learning StarOffice BASIC... Nov 01 13:49:58 * muu want an N800 with an atom inside :) Nov 01 13:50:05 could i ask you to try something on your 770 and report results Nov 01 13:50:15 muu, surprisingly, your n800 has many atoms inside Nov 01 13:50:25 why would you want just one? Nov 01 13:50:32 it would be a bit small to hold Nov 01 13:50:38 and the dpi would be indescribable Nov 01 13:51:02 muu, lol Nov 01 13:51:23 muu: i wouldn't want an atom in my n800. Nov 01 13:51:34 battery life would be death Nov 01 13:52:12 lcuk, sure! Nov 01 13:52:17 ROTFL Nov 01 13:52:20 hahahaha Nov 01 13:52:21 dererk, my app is installable from diablo extras and has a website here http://liqbase.net im interested to discover whats going wrong on 770, if you could install it and perhaps try to run it from the console and send me the output i would be most appreciative Nov 01 13:52:27 * dererk neither would Nov 01 13:52:29 indeed! Nov 01 13:53:12 lcuk, by now you didn't name it :P Nov 01 13:53:26 then see the site :) Nov 01 13:53:50 and watch the video Nov 01 13:54:16 I can't see swf from here Nov 01 13:54:26 i can see some kind of square Nov 01 13:54:29 is that the app? Nov 01 13:55:12 battery life would be death Nov 01 13:55:19 its a very fast graphical playground, has sketching and bookreaders and fullscreen kinetic scrolling and a load of nice next gen things Nov 01 13:55:32 and bacon Nov 01 13:55:35 qwerty12_N800, thanks! got the package Nov 01 13:55:44 :) Nov 01 13:55:44 lcuk, ok. liqbase is the pkg name? Nov 01 13:55:50 yes Nov 01 13:56:08 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/ Nov 01 13:56:18 lcuk, you don't include spyware and maleware, right? Nov 01 13:56:20 * dererk laughs :D Nov 01 13:56:28 sorry, bad practises :P) Nov 01 13:56:30 dererk, yes, i include both of those thing Nov 01 13:56:31 s Nov 01 13:56:37 :P Nov 01 13:56:43 actually, no maleware though, just regular malware Nov 01 13:56:54 ok, but a real x86.... Nov 01 13:56:54 mean more apps and less work to port Nov 01 13:57:04 no Nov 01 13:57:19 the porting problems are not mostly caused by x86 issues Nov 01 13:57:28 what lcuk said Nov 01 13:58:03 its the distro and other libs available, once compiled from c to whichever arch 99% of apps are fine Nov 01 13:58:09 lcuk: saw https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed#Maemo_SDK ? Nov 01 13:58:14 yeah i did Nov 01 13:58:18 k Nov 01 13:58:33 * lcuk is keeping ontop of most of the wiki Nov 01 13:58:36 * lcuk has ideas Nov 01 13:58:39 lcuk: first wideo is no usable, youtube is ok, but it takes a long time to download it. Nov 01 13:59:06 lcuk: feel free to contribute items Nov 01 13:59:14 oilinki, the first video is from vimeo: http://vimeo.com/2073283?pg=embed&sec=2073283 Nov 01 13:59:23 i use === ~~~~ ==== to seperate ideas/proposals Nov 01 13:59:26 Stskeeps, im thinking more ui Nov 01 13:59:39 *nod* Nov 01 13:59:58 and im thinking that everything people are asking for (taking the pim as an example) could be achieved nicely on this device Nov 01 14:00:00 my target is everything going on under the shell Nov 01 14:00:29 you know my thinking: write for lowest common denominator and stretch into faster hardware. that way current devices carry on working Nov 01 14:01:10 apt-get install coffee Nov 01 14:01:56 X-Plane on the iPhone Nov 01 14:01:57 I want that. Nov 01 14:02:58 * dererk PAN is working \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ Nov 01 14:03:04 lcuk, UI is an issue for farther down the road. Nov 01 14:03:18 many thanks GeneralAntilles qwerty12_N800 lcuk and all Nov 01 14:03:24 The platform stuff is particularly important now because of the alpha SDK coming out in December. Nov 01 14:03:49 GeneralAntilles, Diablo? Nov 01 14:03:56 Fremantle Nov 01 14:05:37 GeneralAntilles, yes i know Nov 01 14:06:02 a paradigm change might also save n800,n810s for fremantle too Nov 01 14:06:03 but its rolling around my head and its what im good at thinking about and i know nothing about the requirements of an sdk Nov 01 14:06:33 i managed to add a new input method last night Nov 01 14:06:41 any elegant way to get wlan iface down, without using a terminal? Nov 01 14:07:00 theres a nobble icon at the top for connecting and disconnecting Nov 01 14:07:48 Stskeeps, im very interested in on device debugging and breakpoints Nov 01 14:08:39 notably without jumping through a 500 line console invokation Nov 01 14:08:46 lcuk: you presented the application on maemo summit. why the display was not on full screen? Nov 01 14:09:14 what do you mean "not full screen" liqbase is solely a fullscreen app Nov 01 14:09:22 or did you mean the framing on the projector? Nov 01 14:09:25 yes Nov 01 14:09:52 thats simply me not holding 810 under the camera properly :$ Nov 01 14:10:41 lcuk: hoho. I tought there would be another ways to export the screen to the audience :) Nov 01 14:10:56 I'm a bit lost since I was out some time Nov 01 14:11:01 diablo is chinook sucessor, right? Nov 01 14:11:19 dererk, the wikipedia article has a nice version table. Nov 01 14:11:19 oilinki, :) no, this device was born on maemo, its compiled on device and worked on in its little plantpot, but now its growing up somewhat Nov 01 14:11:41 none of the emulators can display its output Nov 01 14:11:50 and itwas only very recently i learnt how to export images from it Nov 01 14:12:02 i cant use the usb-vga device Nov 01 14:12:33 because of the graphical limitations of the current platform i had to do some lateral thinkign to get it running :) Nov 01 14:12:58 checking Nov 01 14:13:24 lcuk: I mean the fellows who are running the show could provide some ways to show the display to the audience. Nov 01 14:13:46 they did Nov 01 14:13:47 and it worked Nov 01 14:13:57 REALLY well :D Nov 01 14:14:24 lcuk: well, not on the display :) Nov 01 14:14:47 is anyone here who saw the live presentation of liqbase on the big projector? Nov 01 14:14:59 hi, is there gtk+2.12.12 deb package for maemo available to download? Nov 01 14:15:03 and did it work Nov 01 14:16:31 oilinki, i spent the night before the summit in my hotel room with a 12 pack of duracells and my camera trying to record short short clips of what liqbase could do, my craptop failed at the last hurdle and i nearly never got to present Nov 01 14:17:16 luckily the overhead cam/projector was moved so we could show in the main room and it worked a treat (barring my software problem at the start) Nov 01 14:20:20 hola Nov 01 14:22:22 dererk, did you manage to install it? Nov 01 14:23:28 lcuk: kind of a last hope :) Nov 01 14:24:01 it worked though :) Nov 01 14:24:47 lcuk, nope, not yet, Nov 01 14:26:32 alsor: you can probably check it out from svn from stage.maemo.org Nov 01 14:26:40 oilinki, im very paper oriented. for the application to work it has to be fluid and intuitive Nov 01 14:26:48 alsor: and compile in scratchbox Nov 01 14:27:26 lcuk: I watched your video. it's impressive what you do with the display. Nov 01 14:28:17 oilinki, :) its only the start, im still finding my feet but every day i manage to do something else and its growing steadily Nov 01 14:34:36 Stskeeps: oh, yes, that might be the only way available:) my connection to stage.maemo.org is really *SLOW*...pity Nov 01 14:34:44 Stskeeps: thanks for that info:) Nov 01 14:37:34 lcuk: I wonder how to use the skills in more everyday tasks. Nov 01 14:38:17 oilinki, :) theres many ways - for instance ive got a kinetic calendar seed here Nov 01 14:38:25 im just seeing how practical i can make it Nov 01 14:39:09 lcuk: kinetic calendar could be nice, but what about changing the whole user interface? Nov 01 14:39:38 explain.. Nov 01 14:52:22 You guys have to hear Francis E. Dec - amazing rants.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_E._Dec Nov 01 14:52:25 you can get the Dec rants here: http://www.ubu.com/sound/dec.html Nov 01 14:53:56 lcuk, couldn't find it on diablo/sdk/free Nov 01 14:56:17 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/ Nov 01 14:56:20 dererk, its there Nov 01 14:56:34 theres a .install on the page there ^ Nov 01 14:56:41 that will fix your repos if they are wrong Nov 01 14:57:20 pupnik: There are illustrations! Nov 01 14:58:00 of what RST38h ? Nov 01 14:58:49 pupnik: to crazy conspiracy theories! Nov 01 14:58:55 pupnik: Enjoy http://alexrex.info/ufo/ Nov 01 14:58:59 i didn't see them on the. oh ok Nov 01 14:59:38 hah nice Nov 01 14:59:40 Sorry that commentaries are all in Russian: they are real fun to read, from psychiatric point of view Nov 01 15:14:18 Afternoon, all Nov 01 15:16:04 afternoon, Jaffa Nov 01 15:20:41 qwerty12_N800: size of kernel partition? Nov 01 15:21:42 Stskeeps, 2048 Kb Nov 01 15:21:46 k Nov 01 15:29:57 * Stskeeps is trying to move his way forward in his proposal and is getting some areas where he may not know enough Nov 01 15:29:58 do we have pulse audio for maemo? Nov 01 15:30:22 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=182379 hmm Nov 01 15:31:19 pupnik: it'll come Nov 01 15:31:36 in fremantle Nov 01 15:31:41 YAAY! Nov 01 15:31:43 :D Nov 01 15:32:06 (.. which seems long time away) Nov 01 15:33:00 " I recently setup a pulse-audio "network" in my house for streaming audio between rooms/backyard/etc and have thought about options for other hardware instead of full blown Linux PCs." Nov 01 15:33:17 course, there's the option of an FM transmitter.... Nov 01 15:33:23 wb ssvb Nov 01 15:40:44 hi pupnik Nov 01 15:41:48 * RST38h is almost ready to give up and install YouAmp Nov 01 15:45:20 pupnik: have you looked at slimserver? or do you want to play with pulse? Nov 01 15:46:53 i haven't lbt... i thought it was mainly for playing music off shared drives Nov 01 15:47:20 You can use it as audio distribution Nov 01 15:47:49 and if you actually have squeezeboxes you can turn them on/off remotely Nov 01 15:48:26 it can stream from internet radio (and of course you can set up your own streamer) Nov 01 15:53:18 lbt: saw my Maemo Reconstructed work-in-progress yet? Nov 01 15:54:14 Stskeeps: where's that? Nov 01 15:54:22 https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed Nov 01 15:54:33 (I'm rebuilding egroupware and getting ready to work on caldav) Nov 01 15:54:46 (as in "ooh, shiny") Nov 01 15:56:21 I think you may consider that 'hackable' is a key selling point for any hardware that pupports to be OSS friendly Nov 01 15:56:54 so Nokia should have a very low level hook like initfs - and I raised a bug about that IIRC Nov 01 15:58:43 we need a grub-like kernel selection system from initfs Nov 01 15:58:55 kexec? :P Nov 01 15:59:18 I typed that and then changed it to a requirement, not a solution ;) Nov 01 15:59:29 hehe Nov 01 15:59:29 bbl chaps Nov 01 15:59:38 tata Nov 01 16:00:06 oh hi lbt :) cya later on Nov 01 16:02:28 lbt: but this is the kind of discussion i'm hoping to spark :P Nov 01 16:03:20 yep - I'm discussing ... Nov 01 16:40:20 Ron Paul was right Nov 01 16:40:52 pon raul? Nov 01 16:44:46 anyone know how i can update that map for date/time on my n810 to have my home city or even one in my timezone? Nov 01 16:45:15 sthistle, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20729 Nov 01 16:46:34 thx. will check that Nov 01 16:54:31 hey qwert12, will that also fix my timezone? my emails are off by 30 mins Nov 01 16:55:03 No idea :/ Nov 01 16:55:08 my timezone is nst:330:ndt Nov 01 16:55:31 gmt-3:30 :) Nov 01 17:13:08 ingenious! http://www.foundshit.com/bacon-bowl-salad/ Nov 01 17:14:35 You spend your days browsing the internet for bacon now, don't you? Nov 01 17:14:53 no gen, i was browsing foundshit and spotted that Nov 01 17:15:13 was not actively seeking bacon, but my radar pinged Nov 01 17:15:21 Don't lie. Nov 01 17:15:34 im upto http://www.foundshit.com/page/17/ now :P Nov 01 17:15:41 id already passed plenty of bacon Nov 01 17:16:10 actually gen, i think you are right Nov 01 17:16:29 i searched google for bacon, foundshit is #2 and they had a bra seciton which made me look closer Nov 01 17:16:30 http://www.foundshit.com/tag/brassiere/ Nov 01 17:17:12 it was cos tracy said "that doesnt look like bacon (the stars in liqbase) and i attempted to prove her wrong lol Nov 01 17:17:17 omg im bacon obsessed Nov 01 17:17:38 :'( Nov 01 17:17:45 I've seen all of this bacon before. Nov 01 17:17:52 And I don't actively search for it at all. Nov 01 17:23:29 bacon thread on itT :D Nov 01 17:25:21 lcuk, do you remember me? Nov 01 17:26:00 im not paying child support Nov 01 17:26:20 lol Nov 01 17:26:30 do you remember me though? tried to buy a nokia off craigslist, person didnt show up. Nov 01 17:27:31 zakkm, kindof, did you get one eventually Nov 01 17:28:10 yeah i got one last night.. for $145 Nov 01 17:28:17 nice condition, came with box and everything Nov 01 17:28:49 would you happen to know why on the newest diablo, canola 2 beta 9 .. it says invalid url ? for youtube vids ? Nov 01 17:29:26 no Nov 01 17:29:51 also your liqbase, can it read pdf's ? Nov 01 17:29:55 for the document viewing Nov 01 17:29:57 i like it :) Nov 01 17:30:15 Also, does metacrawler bug still exist ? Nov 01 17:30:27 not at this time, txt only for now Nov 01 17:30:45 is it okay for large txts ? Nov 01 17:30:49 like 100-200 page pdf's ? Nov 01 17:30:57 if i were to convert to txt? Nov 01 17:31:52 i think i have a limit of 32 or 64mb of plaintext Nov 01 17:32:00 and it can handle them fine Nov 01 17:32:29 ill split it then Nov 01 17:32:32 does usb ,, charge it? Nov 01 17:32:36 usb charging? Nov 01 17:32:39 no Nov 01 17:32:57 charger charging, but you can get usb->chargerneedle Nov 01 17:33:32 he forgot to give me a charger, though he said he would send it.. and i do believe he will... i need it charged sooner Nov 01 17:34:32 i have an emergency charger (generic brand) that has the right sized needle Nov 01 17:35:25 would it break it? Nov 01 17:35:31 if it wasnt nokia? Nov 01 17:35:41 like should i try to find a generic one in my house that fits? Nov 01 17:35:55 hi Nov 01 17:36:15 Assuming it has the right polarity and voltage Nov 01 17:36:29 zakkm, check voltages etc and dont try to shove something thats the wrong size into the hole and you will be ok Nov 01 17:36:47 yeah i would make sure it has the right size Nov 01 17:36:58 but voltage and "polarity" im not sure about Nov 01 17:37:52 my friend has a nokia phone .. and that fitted perfectly .. but he uses it for his phone so i cant really borrow it Nov 01 17:39:44 sure you can Nov 01 17:40:23 open source, buy him a beer, sit and have a chat - in an hour or two it will be charged Nov 01 17:40:48 can you do me a favor? Nov 01 17:40:52 i found a charger that says nokia Nov 01 17:40:59 would it work fine? Nov 01 17:41:02 nokia + fits hole? Nov 01 17:41:07 What's the model number? Nov 01 17:41:09 Yes Nov 01 17:41:12 can you read? Nov 01 17:41:14 lcuk: i did that yesterday Nov 01 17:41:29 where would i see model number? Nov 01 17:41:31 look at the voltage on the charger, and look at the stuff in your manual Nov 01 17:41:56 If it's an AC-3x, it won't work. I've used an AC-4x (the one that comes with the N800) & a AC-5x (my current charger) fine Nov 01 17:42:09 output DC-5V Nov 01 17:42:22 AC-4U Nov 01 17:42:23 it says Nov 01 17:42:50 i actually think it was the one i used for my old 770 Nov 01 17:43:08 either way its 100% safe right.. just might not work? Nov 01 17:43:49 should be. I even wired up an old nokia charger with a new connector, didn't work but it didn't mess up the tablet either Nov 01 17:43:55 afternoon all Nov 01 17:44:03 hi lardman Nov 01 17:44:18 hi Nov 01 17:44:42 qwerty12: beautiful and sunny where you are too? ;) Nov 01 17:45:16 sweet it worked :D Nov 01 17:45:27 lardman: yep, the sunshine is just making this room beam :P Nov 01 17:45:33 :) Nov 01 17:45:39 the connector which fits the n810 is a standard 105 connector Nov 01 17:45:43 does the groymayor repo of 2008 list.. is that for chinook or diablo.. or both ? Nov 01 17:46:00 zakkm, forgot gronmayer Nov 01 17:46:05 ~extras Nov 01 17:46:06 somebody said extras was http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Nov 01 17:46:08 I converted a 5mb djvu ebook to pdf and the fucking pdf is at 293MB >.< Nov 01 17:46:10 ^ that's all you need. Nov 01 17:46:26 uhh Nov 01 17:46:31 qwerty12: lol, each page a bitmap then now? Nov 01 17:46:38 i did that, not many apps :D Nov 01 17:46:43 then now, strange language I use Nov 01 17:47:02 lardman, probably, I have to say, it's good quality :P Nov 01 17:47:30 qwerty12: zoom in, rendered text should be better than scaled bitmap Nov 01 17:47:50 I'm running it through acrobat's compression, lets see what it comes out with Nov 01 17:48:02 lardman, I can't now, it's starting to compress it now :( Nov 01 17:48:18 anyone know why youtube vids wont play in canola2 beta 9 .. *invalid url" Nov 01 17:49:19 i really should dig out my pdf parser Nov 01 17:49:20 is the built in web browser, the best to use ? Nov 01 17:49:38 hiya simon Nov 01 17:49:44 "I have been thinking about trying to compile some ubuntu-mobile packages. Just for fun. I have never compiled anything" Nov 01 17:49:45 hi gary Nov 01 17:49:49 that man is in for a lot of pain Nov 01 17:49:58 lcuk: nice bacon topic Nov 01 17:50:01 lardman: ? Nov 01 17:50:12 heh, i shouldv added more Nov 01 17:50:18 heh gary, he was talki nto me :D Nov 01 17:50:22 Gary: sorry, lcuk has same name Nov 01 17:50:23 ahh, hehe Nov 01 17:50:32 he doesn't there is only one Gary Nov 01 17:51:15 hmm, anyone know of a PC gaming related irc channel? Nov 01 17:51:30 zakkm, no you didn't. Nov 01 17:51:31 lardman? x-box live? Nov 01 17:51:40 or the steam ones? Nov 01 17:51:40 If there "aren't many apps" then you didn't enable Extras. Nov 01 17:51:42 lcuk: PC gaming.... Nov 01 17:51:46 lol Nov 01 17:51:59 there are a lot of apps, but i thought there would be more, i remember more in like 2006 on my 770 .. Nov 01 17:52:06 but then again i installed alott of repos Nov 01 17:52:35 * lardman might have to take a disassember to this bloody game to work out why it's not starting up Nov 01 17:53:08 si, a decent renderer for live diary view - when i have done timelines before now (in schedular/tasks app at dayjob) I used a query which returned tasks overlapping the displayed region, but im thinking changing the granuality to only lookup tasks/events within a single day Nov 01 17:53:18 have you had a look at the performance of sqlite yet Nov 01 17:53:38 (a decent diary view is similar in principle to mapping tiles algorythm) Nov 01 17:54:16 i Nov 01 17:55:20 no, I've not looked at it yet, still writing code Nov 01 17:55:49 though I think overlap is important really, you should know if the task finishes at the end of your region of interest or beyond it Nov 01 17:56:28 oh yeah, the query im used to using basically is if task.end >= view.start && task.start <= view.end Nov 01 17:56:57 that catches anything which starts or finishes or overlaps the view region Nov 01 17:57:11 ive got a mockup here with a timeline scalable from 1 week to 5 years Nov 01 17:57:16 and it performs nicely Nov 01 17:57:28 ive got @ 15000 task items from my work database in there Nov 01 17:57:33 wrong format and language though Nov 01 17:58:46 i never did enough in sqlite to try to work on it - i need to convert the mdb to sqlite and get some simple recordset wrapper to begin checking it Nov 01 17:58:58 anyway, brb t Nov 01 18:06:02 is canola2 beta 10 safe to use ? Nov 01 18:06:32 Also, is it faster to use maemo , booting from SD? Nov 01 18:06:39 Depends on the card Nov 01 18:06:53 if i were to buy one specifically Nov 01 18:07:01 As long as its class 6 Nov 01 18:07:14 Though, honestly, most of the speedup comes from not using a compressed filesystem Nov 01 18:08:01 wouldnt compress = slower? Nov 01 18:08:24 Yeah, that's exactly my point. ;) Nov 01 18:08:34 oh.. when you copy to SD, its uncompressed? Nov 01 18:08:35 NAND uses jffs2 Nov 01 18:08:53 yes, SD uses extX Nov 01 18:09:07 where X=2|3 Nov 01 18:09:14 not 4? :P Nov 01 18:09:41 not unless you have a kernel module for that ;) Nov 01 18:10:47 does these class 6 cards come in 1-2gb ? Nov 01 18:11:11 No Nov 01 18:11:14 1-2GB isn't SDHC Nov 01 18:11:24 moo again Nov 01 18:11:34 cant afford much, just bought the nokia yesterday, made me broke Nov 01 18:22:36 What comes next after N810? The WiMax thing is a joke in the US. Nov 01 18:23:06 whats irreco ? Nov 01 18:24:48 halley, a tablet with OMAP3, HSPA and an HD camera sometime next year. Nov 01 18:27:28 HSPA looks useful but never even heard of it. What carriers will do something in US? Nov 01 18:28:48 AT&T, t-mobile, etc. Nov 01 18:59:53 finally finished my restore process, after ~7 hours Nov 01 19:00:54 Starship Troopers on TV Nov 01 19:02:31 Cute movie - they took Heinlein's antiwar pamphlet, gave actors nazi uniforms and made every american proud of it Nov 01 19:03:31 is there any good tricks to making free calls over nokia n800 Nov 01 19:04:15 zakkm: Skype or VoIP computer to computer Nov 01 19:04:35 what about sip and stuff? Nov 01 19:04:37 grandcentral maybe? Nov 01 19:04:44 When I said VoIP I meant SIP Nov 01 19:04:52 i know Nov 01 19:04:55 but i meant calling house phones Nov 01 19:05:01 Never tried GrandCentral Nov 01 19:27:54 hi all, I applied the latest OS updates and at some point my list of repos broke, e.g. Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz 404 Not Found Nov 01 19:28:25 any ideas how that happened? now I only see sdk and tools under http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/ Nov 01 19:29:00 in other words, what is the "base" diablo repo? is it at maemo.org or http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com ? Nov 01 19:29:35 that's a good question :P Nov 01 19:29:50 aspiers, if you want the diablo equivalent of that chinook repo: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3405#c6 Nov 01 19:29:57 damn.. grandcentral doesn't work on the new OS Nov 01 19:30:09 it almost works.. but data entry is screwed up Nov 01 19:30:26 hola Nov 01 19:30:52 aspiers, there is no "base" repo. Nov 01 19:30:57 qwerty12_N800: thanks! I recognise your nick since the whole point of this exercise is to install emacs... Nov 01 19:31:09 heh :) Nov 01 19:31:17 There are development repositories, community software repositories, commercial software repositories, and upgrades repositories. Nov 01 19:31:33 and cake Nov 01 19:31:39 The cake is a lie! Nov 01 19:32:02 (i still don't get the point of upgrade repos) Nov 01 19:32:08 GeneralAntilles: by "base" I mean, if you flash a device with the most recent firmware, then apply any updates which are offered online, what do you end up with? Nov 01 19:32:24 GeneralAntilles: without changing your list of repos, that is Nov 01 19:32:37 An upgrade repo, some commercial software repos and a community repo (disabled) Nov 01 19:32:54 Stskeeps, control, I guess. Nov 01 19:33:12 version x will only ever be exposed to packages from version y. Nov 01 19:33:26 Stupid, sure, but Nokia's all about the baby steps. Nov 01 19:33:36 nice.. grandcentral works, as long as you enter your username and password on the notepad, and use copy/paste Nov 01 19:33:36 so what repo does this page refer to? http://ageofikon.info/packrat/index.php?Action=list&System=OS2008&Arg=libxaw7&Section=&Repo=0 Nov 01 19:34:23 libxaw7.install has uri http://repository.maemo.org/ and components free and non-free Nov 01 19:34:28 but that doesn't seem to refer to anything Nov 01 19:34:45 GeneralAntilles: i guess update repos can be a way to do controlled upgrades of stable Nov 01 19:35:11 GeneralAntilles: got any wiki references to the whole stable/unstable package repos discussion? think i saw it recently Nov 01 19:35:26 It was only brought up by Quim on -developers Nov 01 19:35:29 alright Nov 01 19:37:58 \o/ i have 99 karma Nov 01 19:38:26 * GeneralAntilles thumbs lcuk Nov 01 19:38:44 would http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=013337&cid=990 be good to boot from SD with? Nov 01 19:38:52 Transcend SDHC Class 6 SDA 2.0 8GB (TS8GSDHC6) Nov 01 19:38:55 $19.99 Nov 01 19:39:05 Performance Approx. 19MB/sec Read; 13MB/sec Write Nov 01 19:39:07 zakkm, get used to the system first - you will then gain skills to jump to there Nov 01 19:39:34 is it just me or is the repo in this page broken? http://ageofikon.info/packrat/index.php?Action=list&System=OS2008&Arg=libxaw7&Section=&Repo=0 Nov 01 19:39:45 lcuk: i used to own a 770 .. for many months Nov 01 19:39:50 its just recently , that i have a n800 Nov 01 19:40:17 * Stskeeps glances at http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-commits/2008-October/011689.html Nov 01 19:41:47 or rather, https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/doc/mvo/system-model-2.txt Nov 01 19:42:14 Yeah, we found it a few weeks ago. Nov 01 19:42:17 is there a way of installing local .debs which follows dependencies too? Nov 01 19:42:42 where would i see about Canola help? the youtube plugin.. brings out invalid url .. whenever i select a video Nov 01 19:43:03 GeneralAntilles: seems like the right direction Nov 01 19:43:41 * Stskeeps wouldn't so much mind a active harmattan than a fremantle overhaul Nov 01 19:43:58 where the harmattan would be cutting edge or something Nov 01 19:44:09 Huh? Nov 01 19:44:16 .. nm Nov 01 19:44:19 Harmattan is probably 5.1 Nov 01 19:44:33 gf has me on some herbal inhalation stuff, i'm drugged out :) Nov 01 19:44:49 Ha Nov 01 19:44:51 zakkm, 5.1? more like at least 6 or 7 Nov 01 19:44:56 -zakkm Nov 01 19:45:00 5.1 ? Nov 01 19:45:05 ohh youtube plugin? Nov 01 19:45:13 lcuk, it's either 5.1 or 6 Nov 01 19:45:14 Period. Nov 01 19:45:29 Nokia doesn't have a clue how they want to use their codenames. Nov 01 19:45:31 GeneralAntilles: .. which is probably why i'm having so much ease in dealing with the reconstructed stuff, it's hideously tedious without Nov 01 19:45:45 Im using the newest diablo Nov 01 19:45:48 i downloaded yesterday Nov 01 19:47:39 lcuk, GeneralAntilles, where would i find version ? Nov 01 19:48:35 eh? version of what? Nov 01 19:48:39 lcuk, 1.x had no codename. 2.0, 2.1, and 2.2 each had their own codename. 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 were all Bora. 4.0 and 4.1 each had their own codename. Nov 01 19:49:05 So, assuming Nokia has actually settled down into something remotely logical in their codenaming, then Harmattan is 5.1. Nov 01 19:49:25 Power profiles aren't exactly a 5-to-6 feature addition. Nov 01 19:49:44 There's absolutely zero chance of it being 7. Nov 01 19:49:49 yeah, but i was under the impression harmattan was a total hand waving exercise and complete departure from current systems, hence its not likely to be a point release Nov 01 19:50:11 chinook->diablo == more of the same Nov 01 19:50:18 fremantle == different Nov 01 19:50:28 harmattan == blow you away Nov 01 19:50:47 fremantle with UI focus and harmattan as system overhaul, maybe Nov 01 19:51:05 So how would i fix this canola youtube thingy? Nov 01 19:51:20 'course, with Fremantle pushing the yearly cycle way out of whack, Harmattan could come as Maemo 6 pretty soon after Fremantle's out. Nov 01 19:51:21 i mean, thinking of it, didn't N800 start with OS2007, then N810 came along with 08? Nov 01 19:51:42 by reading the docs about canola? by reading the canola stuff? by going into the #canola channel Nov 01 19:52:04 zakkm by reading the docs about canola? by reading the canola stuff? by going into the #canola channel Nov 01 19:52:50 its all useless anyway, we dont even know how clear fremantle will be Nov 01 19:53:00 "clear"? Nov 01 19:53:09 back later movie time quantum of solice is waiting Nov 01 19:53:25 solace Nov 01 19:53:29 yeah, what the interface is gonna be like, how we are gonna use it etc Nov 01 19:53:32 * aspiers feels rather invisible :-/ Nov 01 19:53:34 yeah that as well Nov 01 19:54:54 aspiers, short answer: no, long answer: yes, but it's a bigger time investment than just grabbing the dependencies manually. Nov 01 19:55:01 aspiers, the deps can only come from the file its contained in or the repos you have installed Nov 01 19:55:13 couldn't you run a localhost repo? Nov 01 19:55:41 yes but no1 does cos its a lot of faffing Nov 01 19:55:46 halley: that sounds like a lot of work Nov 01 19:55:52 for not much benefit - use the maemo repos Nov 01 19:56:17 Just apt-get or dpkg -i your way through the dependency tree Nov 01 19:56:21 It wont take long. Nov 01 19:56:53 I have emacs installed and running nicely now, but my concern is for other people who want to achieve the same and have less experience with dpkg/apt etc. than I do (and I don't have much) Nov 01 19:57:18 it all seems quite difficult for newbies Nov 01 19:57:22 aspiers, then package Extras, request upload privileges and upload it. Nov 01 19:57:35 ~uploading-extras Nov 01 19:57:36 i guess uploading-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Nov 01 19:57:40 Or convince somebody else to do it. Nov 01 19:57:44 GeneralAntilles: I will try to find some time Nov 01 19:57:49 emacs aint exactly a newbie request Nov 01 19:57:55 true Nov 01 19:58:02 but surely other things depend on libxaw7 for instance Nov 01 19:58:38 am kind of surprised that Ulysses' emacs didn't make it into extras considering the download link is on garage Nov 01 19:58:55 Ulysses didn't follow through Nov 01 19:59:01 Garage really doesn't have anything to do with Extras, anyway. Nov 01 19:59:35 Harass Ulysses about uploading it. Nov 01 20:00:16 damn, I lost the X11 keysym for euro Nov 01 20:00:21 EuroSign? Nov 01 20:00:51 according to /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h anyway Nov 01 20:03:45 ...so the N810 wimax edition is now officially available in stores, or not? if so, since when? Nov 01 20:04:02 It's shipping from online retails Nov 01 20:04:06 dunno about stores Nov 01 20:04:10 not more than a few weeks. Nov 01 20:04:24 Is WiMax common in .de ? Nov 01 20:04:31 It's fuck-all useless in .us Nov 01 20:04:44 Unless you're in a city with WiMAX Nov 01 20:04:48 Then it's pretty damn useful. Nov 01 20:05:23 wimax is not common at all in .de Nov 01 20:05:32 Which is, count 'em, Baltimore. Nov 01 20:05:43 and Dallas Nov 01 20:05:56 Er, according to XOHM site, Dallas is a "coming soon." Nov 01 20:05:59 And has been. Nov 01 20:06:11 I know Texrat is using WiMAX just fine in Dallas. Nov 01 20:06:21 But recall 3g Nov 01 20:06:31 hmm. this maemo system model is part 2, did anyone find part 1? Nov 01 20:06:48 Knowing that it will be more widespread in 2012 does not help me want to use a 2008 device. Nov 01 20:06:51 It took, what, 6 months to go from a few cities to over a dozen? Nov 01 20:07:05 Stskeeps, context? Nov 01 20:07:11 https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/doc/mvo/system-model-2.txt Nov 01 20:07:20 Oh Nov 01 20:07:35 Don't think it's out. Nov 01 20:07:35 Nov 01 20:07:39 k Nov 01 20:07:42 You could ask on the mailing list, though. Nov 01 20:08:19 Somebody should probably engage Quim on the whole "would opening the flasher be useful?" thing? Nov 01 20:08:31 isn't it already reverse engineered in 0xffff? Nov 01 20:08:33 s/?/./2 Nov 01 20:08:38 Not completely Nov 01 20:08:44 and not always reliably. Nov 01 20:08:50 true Nov 01 20:08:59 my e-mail is down for 24 hours so i would, but can't :P Nov 01 20:09:14 Only one email account? Nov 01 20:09:22 primary e-mail Nov 01 20:09:51 is this a -developers, -users, -community? Nov 01 20:10:00 -developers Nov 01 20:10:15 hmm, let's see if i can find it Nov 01 20:10:24 (the post) Nov 01 20:10:31 -users is for "hoa do u uz app mngr???" Nov 01 20:10:32 Stskeeps needs to get a life Nov 01 20:10:33 * w00t nods Nov 01 20:10:39 Oh Nov 01 20:10:53 * GeneralAntilles inhaled some of Stskeeps' drugs. Nov 01 20:11:14 w00t: says you. got a tablet yet? :P Nov 01 20:11:15 Stskeeps: https://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages#Specific_reasons_for_packages Nov 01 20:11:19 ah Nov 01 20:11:21 See the flasher entry. Nov 01 20:11:30 Stskeeps: i'm trying very hard not to buy more tech at the moment Nov 01 20:11:34 all i want for christmas is an accelerated x server Nov 01 20:11:50 Pavlov, maybe next year. Nov 01 20:11:53 eh :P accelerated in terms of 3d or 2d? :P Nov 01 20:11:56 or xv? Nov 01 20:12:22 2d, or even you know, arm optimized Nov 01 20:12:31 lcuk has been looking to implement a web browser in liqbase, though. . . . Nov 01 20:13:36 heh Nov 01 20:13:41 Pavlov: eh. :P xomap is pretty dedicated towards being arm/omap optimized Nov 01 20:13:51 not really Nov 01 20:13:59 you should take a look at the source ;) Nov 01 20:14:13 i did briefly and decided i had better things to spend time at Nov 01 20:14:14 :P Nov 01 20:14:44 GeneralAntilles, there's discussion to open the flasher Nov 01 20:15:03 and if Stskeeps has some good drugs, then don't bogart them! pass 'em! ;-) Nov 01 20:16:20 andre__, more than is on that wiki page? Nov 01 20:16:25 hi Nov 01 20:16:32 GeneralAntilles, URL? Nov 01 20:16:44 * GeneralAntilles thinks andre__ already had some of the drugs. Nov 01 20:16:54 https://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages#Specific_reasons_for_packages Nov 01 20:17:09 not really, just some Federweißer (hmm... does an english word exist for that?) Nov 01 20:17:18 i don't remember, I think it's an internal discussion. let me read my mail Nov 01 20:17:43 Ah, that would explain it. Nov 01 20:18:23 oh nice, there's an english wikipedia article about Federweißer Nov 01 20:18:27 re Nov 01 20:18:31 well, let me take a look at my mail again Nov 01 20:19:54 GeneralAntilles, ah... yes, it's still under discussion. just started this two days ago :) Nov 01 20:20:06 (damn, this felt longer ago. too much mail on only one day) Nov 01 20:20:49 I'm somewhat worried about not being able to flash my N900 with an OS X machine as it stands. Nov 01 20:21:01 evening guys Nov 01 20:21:15 I flashed to the new diablo image for the N810 Nov 01 20:21:21 however...im still unable to send emails suing certificates Nov 01 20:21:38 has anyone of you sent emails using certificates ? Nov 01 20:21:39 GeneralAntilles, bug 1100 Nov 01 20:21:46 i know, that's why i asked them :) Nov 01 20:21:58 GeneralAntilles, N900 ? Nov 01 20:22:01 ;-O Nov 01 20:22:19 typo or is that the 3g N8xx version Nov 01 20:22:19 LinuxCode yes next year Nov 01 20:22:26 awesome Nov 01 20:22:29 and will have 3g Nov 01 20:22:32 no that's N810 wimax edition Nov 01 20:22:32 yah Nov 01 20:22:49 I saw the press release...or maybe ari was mumbling on about it...cant recall Nov 01 20:23:08 still... any of you used certs ? Nov 01 20:23:28 there is a certificate import feature...and the docs claimed/still claim one can use them for email Nov 01 20:23:37 id really like to know how though! Nov 01 20:23:57 LinuxCode sorry didnt use tinymail yet Nov 01 20:24:10 tinymail the default mailing app ? Nov 01 20:24:10 maybe you ask pvanhoff himself Nov 01 20:24:25 hm as of diablo I tought so Nov 01 20:24:34 hmm Nov 01 20:24:34 maybee I am wrong Nov 01 20:24:42 is there a faster browser than the default maemo one? Nov 01 20:24:45 javacsript is so slow Nov 01 20:24:55 Modest Nov 01 20:24:56 tinymail is the mail backend, Modest is the mail frontend in Diablo Nov 01 20:25:01 tinymail is just the. . . Nov 01 20:25:06 LinuxCode: did you have trouble getting ssh installed? Nov 01 20:25:10 faster! :-P Nov 01 20:25:28 I just installed the latest diablo, and ssh did not get reinstalled Nov 01 20:25:35 unixSnob, nope Nov 01 20:25:39 unixSnob Nov 01 20:25:40 openssh I guess ? Nov 01 20:25:41 it errors when I run apt-get install ssh Nov 01 20:25:41 ???? Nov 01 20:25:43 zakkm, you're only working with 400MHz. Nov 01 20:25:49 there are 2 ssh packages Nov 01 20:25:50 i use openssh Nov 01 20:25:56 one with client and server in one Nov 01 20:26:03 which works perfectly well Nov 01 20:26:08 and one with client and server seperated Nov 01 20:26:09 woglinde, indeed Nov 01 20:26:16 i'll try openssh then Nov 01 20:26:26 its both openssh Nov 01 20:26:27 It's listed right in the Application Manager. Nov 01 20:26:33 one is older version Nov 01 20:27:11 damn.. it couldn't find it.. i'll check the app manager Nov 01 20:27:18 LinuxCode, so you can't receive/send mail? any error? Nov 01 20:27:27 andre__, i can mate Nov 01 20:27:33 I want to use the certificates Nov 01 20:27:37 to send signed email Nov 01 20:27:41 ah Nov 01 20:27:46 which should work! Nov 01 20:27:48 so we talk about s/mime, pkcs7? Nov 01 20:27:52 unixSnob, Extras has to be enabled. Nov 01 20:27:54 as far as the docs were concerned Nov 01 20:27:57 yes andre__ Nov 01 20:28:02 I imported the cert Nov 01 20:28:12 account name is the same as subject field in the cert Nov 01 20:28:27 my understanding is it should give me an option Nov 01 20:28:48 Does the N800 flip .. or is it just the N810 ? Nov 01 20:28:50 but it doesnt....and there is no option i see Nov 01 20:28:57 "flip"? Nov 01 20:29:07 landscape vs portrait.. Nov 01 20:29:12 ~rotation Nov 01 20:29:19 LinuxCode, yupp, normally you should get a certificate notification Nov 01 20:29:21 yes that, sorry. Nov 01 20:29:28 http://outpo.st/rotate Nov 01 20:29:36 andre__, can you elaborate a bit ? Nov 01 20:29:44 GeneralAntilles: i don't recall doing that before.. how are extras enabled? Nov 01 20:29:46 when does this notification appear ? Nov 01 20:29:49 ~extras Nov 01 20:29:50 somebody said extras was http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Nov 01 20:29:55 I tell you what I did step by step... Nov 01 20:30:01 ty Nov 01 20:30:07 transferred my certificates to the internal memory Nov 01 20:30:21 imported from the certificate util in the settings manager Nov 01 20:30:46 so when does this "notification appear" ? Nov 01 20:31:07 or do I need to send myself a signed email and tiny email picks the cert up ? Nov 01 20:31:12 normally after adding the mail account and send/receiving for the first time Nov 01 20:31:21 s/tiny/Modest/ Nov 01 20:31:21 meh Nov 01 20:31:23 hmm. i'd need a test server for this... Nov 01 20:31:51 GeneralAntilles, ? Nov 01 20:32:00 tinymail is just the backend Nov 01 20:32:03 the client is called Modest Nov 01 20:32:07 ahh ok Nov 01 20:32:08 hehe Nov 01 20:32:24 It'd be like talking about Firefox in terms of "Gecko". ;) Nov 01 20:32:33 andre__, do you know how it picks up which account it belongs to ? Nov 01 20:32:38 GeneralAntilles, yeh Nov 01 20:32:39 hehe Nov 01 20:32:45 GeneralAntillies : that link doesnt work Nov 01 20:32:47 LinuxCode, nope Nov 01 20:32:54 zakkm, reload Nov 01 20:32:57 andre__, do you use certs ? Nov 01 20:33:00 The Apache threads segfault sometimes Nov 01 20:33:11 I'm starting to give up on ever seeing a working wiki. Nov 01 20:33:14 if so...is your account name the same as the subject field ? Nov 01 20:33:17 LinuxCode, unfortunately not Nov 01 20:33:20 does metacrawler bug exist in Diablo ? Nov 01 20:33:22 hmm k Nov 01 20:33:36 LinuxCode, i wonder whether debugging the connection to the server would help... dunno Nov 01 20:33:37 see https://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Stock_answers#Debugging_the_connection_to_the_mail_server Nov 01 20:33:42 zakkm, there are many different metalayer-crawler bugs. Nov 01 20:33:46 no no mate Nov 01 20:33:51 im not talking tls issues here Nov 01 20:33:54 So, no, that's not a question that can be answered. Nov 01 20:33:57 im talking signed email issues Nov 01 20:34:16 tls is fine Nov 01 20:34:27 it asked me if I wnated to accept my self-signed cert Nov 01 20:34:29 which is fine Nov 01 20:34:38 maemo.org seems to be having probs with several pages Nov 01 20:34:50 the one that made my 770 .. take 100% cpu ? Nov 01 20:34:51 but my understanding was that modest can send email thats been digitally signed Nov 01 20:35:04 zakkm, probably Nov 01 20:35:20 Most of the bugs that actually affected more than 3 people have been fixed. Nov 01 20:35:25 I tell people...if its not signed by me...chuck the message away, usually Nov 01 20:35:48 im tempted to try claws Nov 01 20:35:56 but it would be nice to use standard contacts Nov 01 20:36:15 halley, supposedly there's a hardware upgrade that has and/or will take place Nov 01 20:36:23 I'm no longer clear on the details. Nov 01 20:36:37 not that that would make much difference as I cant sync from evolution to the standard contacts Nov 01 20:37:01 i use gpesyncd which works fine Nov 01 20:40:57 i will try claws Nov 01 20:41:02 see how that works out Nov 01 20:42:02 im glad the iptables binary is finally in the repo though Nov 01 20:42:08 and bash Nov 01 20:43:08 Bye everybody, good night :=) Nov 01 20:43:40 * LinuxCode pokes lcuk Nov 01 20:43:48 lcuk, hey mate ;-D Nov 01 20:44:35 i thought the passwords were supposed to be preserved through the upgrade.. but my password for 'user' no longer works Nov 01 20:46:19 Well duh Nov 01 20:47:42 i think claws supports it Nov 01 20:47:44 sec Nov 01 20:48:21 Claws will support most things Nov 01 20:48:29 It just has the world's finger-unfriendliest UI. Nov 01 20:48:43 hehe Nov 01 20:48:50 slam a finger on it and boom, all you mail is gone, and your grandmother died? Nov 01 20:49:32 If by "your" you mean "Stskeeps'", then yes. :P Nov 01 20:52:57 hehe Nov 01 20:54:40 * Stskeeps kinda wonders what to use his reconstructed wiki page for when it's done. Nov 01 20:54:49 put out on -developers, link in Mainstream alignment? Nov 01 20:56:25 Both Nov 01 20:56:30 Show it to people. Nov 01 21:02:47 Igor's becoming as bad a tease as Texrat Nov 01 21:03:45 sometimes i'm frustrated by the closedness but i guess they gotta make money in surprising announcements too.. Nov 01 21:03:48 :P Nov 01 21:05:54 There's a lot of fun in the surprises Nov 01 21:05:58 grrr Nov 01 21:06:03 * LinuxCode spanks claws-mail Nov 01 21:06:14 * GeneralAntilles is suffering from the long-term RDF exposure. Nov 01 21:11:59 * StsN800 curses his server Nov 01 21:14:53 GeneralAntilles, everybody, I have some text for a future "Maemo archive", how we might handle our packages, distributions, releases, etc. Nov 01 21:15:15 I am not totally ready to post it to the mailing list, but some early feedback would be welcome. Nov 01 21:15:16 https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/doc/mvo/system-model-2.txt ? Nov 01 21:15:31 Exactly! Nov 01 21:15:37 I knew you guys will find it. Nov 01 21:15:38 Hehe Nov 01 21:15:47 Jaffa stumbled across it a week or two ago. Nov 01 21:15:50 m-vo, looks great Nov 01 21:16:02 Yeah, it looks good to me, too. Nov 01 21:16:19 Though I haven't gone over it in real detail yet. Nov 01 21:16:32 It has changed a lot recently. Nov 01 21:17:26 A sticky point might be that everything is compiled in "testing". Nov 01 21:17:53 That might lead to a lot of hair pulling when the dependencies turn out to be wrong. Nov 01 21:18:03 Any thoughts on that? Nov 01 21:18:29 Search for "Compatability" in the text. Nov 01 21:21:52 m-vo, https://wiki.maemo.org/wiki/Maemo_Reconstructed .. something i have worked a tad on after the jaiku discussion about deblet, had some small thoughts regarding your proposal i added to that Nov 01 21:22:33 (found it earlier so) Nov 01 21:22:51 -wiki/ Nov 01 21:23:05 https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed Nov 01 21:23:29 yeah, sorry, on x11vnc :P Nov 01 21:25:21 StsN800, readin... Nov 01 21:30:57 StsN800, about the initfs.... could you live without one? Nov 01 21:31:22 as a tablet hacker who often breaks things, no :P Nov 01 21:31:38 and i've seen many user cases where it's directly helpful to have one Nov 01 21:31:52 when SSU breaks horridly and they have important data and such Nov 01 21:31:54 Hmm, would booting with init=/bin/sh do it? Nov 01 21:32:06 consider scenario where jffs2 has hosed itself for whatever reason Nov 01 21:32:30 and init=/bin/sh isn't directly easy on tablets Nov 01 21:32:52 maybe with g_serial but that's about it.. Nov 01 21:33:20 but all of this is ofcourse up for discussion Nov 01 21:33:34 Yeah, there should be a rescue mode of some kind, and the initfs might provide one, but mostly by accident. Nov 01 21:34:23 you could consider initfs simply being a alternate root device activatable holding down a key Nov 01 21:34:50 that'd do it for me atleast Nov 01 21:35:48 Like booting from an external memory card? There could be a rescue image that people have to write to a card, and then the device boots from it. Nov 01 21:36:55 there's been some talk of such too, but if there's a feature in-system that can always help, would definately be a more complete system, but this would require people to have memory card readers.. Nov 01 21:37:56 Yeah, builtin would be better. Nov 01 21:38:02 whats the right pixel size to make a background image for an n810? Nov 01 21:38:14 800x400 Nov 01 21:38:28 InterfaceLIFT has most of theirs in 800x480 Nov 01 21:38:31 s/400/480/ Nov 01 21:39:06 ok cool Nov 01 21:42:09 m-vo: added the idea about alternate root device to wiki. the wiki page is really an excersise in deconstructing maemo and reconstructing it based on developer input and see how a future maemo could look like that'd satisfy the wishes. Nov 01 21:43:25 I keep coming back to the idea that we should have a proper framebuffer console and a dirt simple in-kernel virtual keyboard. Nov 01 21:44:24 hehe, yeah, that could be handy once in a while, but many people tend to have a usb keyboard Nov 01 21:44:32 Or an N810 Nov 01 21:44:39 (i still haven't gotten around to using usb host on my n800.) Nov 01 21:45:22 Oh, usb keyboards work out of the box? Nov 01 21:45:28 Gotta get one of Jolouis's OTG adaptors. Nov 01 21:45:40 With the proper hardware Nov 01 21:45:51 Or forcing it into host in software Nov 01 21:46:08 m-vo: i suspect so, people doing the 770 deblet port used it atleast and I don't mess around with kernel. Nov 01 21:50:39 Stslaptop, want to hear my vision of a nice Maemo SDK? :-) Nov 01 21:50:46 m-vo: always Nov 01 21:50:51 "none at all"? Nov 01 21:51:01 I don't understand your plans for Maemo R. Nov 01 21:51:14 (probably read too quickly) Nov 01 21:51:26 "SDK should be a build box with developer friendly tools to get things running. " Nov 01 21:51:32 What's a build box? Nov 01 21:52:41 Anyway.... If I would move to a deserted island to develop for Maemo, I would take with me: Nov 01 21:52:55 two chroot environments. Nov 01 21:53:15 with Maemo installed in both of them. Nov 01 21:53:27 One is x86, the other is armel, with user-mode qemu. Nov 01 21:53:40 Dear Cthulhu, please make 'em see the light and STOP feeding us chrooted environments instead of a normal host-based SDK. Nov 01 21:53:59 Heh. Nov 01 21:54:36 [you can use the iron poker toward this goal, mighty Cthulhu] Nov 01 21:54:45 I'd like to development on-device. Nov 01 21:54:55 You mean we should develop in Debian unstable and run the x86 binaries with qemu on the device? Nov 01 21:55:19 Hear me out, hear me out. Nov 01 21:55:47 So, I was saying. Nov 01 21:56:07 The basic idea is that you develop for Maemo in Maemo. Nov 01 21:56:14 Like you develop for Debian in Debian. Nov 01 21:56:39 I would like to develop for Maemo on my desktop, possibly running Windows Nov 01 21:56:51 I do not want to develop for Maemo in fake Maemo. Nov 01 21:56:52 regarding Maemo R, it's still in polishing phase :). regarding "build box". think extras builder - it has access to all dev packages, cross-compiler, but doesn't try to be a subset of Maemo with full hildon desktop and all, and basically functions as a place you can build your stuff, a buildbox. If you want to test your app, it can be run inside the associated emulator which contains Maemo. I believe in develop in Maemo on Maemo as well Nov 01 21:57:05 Thus, you run Maemo in a chroot on your Debian host. That should be quite painless, no? Nov 01 21:57:41 m-vo: Yes, until you have to use your source code that really resides on an NTFS partition mounted from your Debian Nov 01 21:57:49 m-vo: And then you are fucked. Nov 01 21:58:04 RST38h, don Nov 01 21:58:11 So, please, I would like a normal SDK, just like Nokia has for Symbian Nov 01 21:58:21 't do that, we are talking about the real world here. Nov 01 21:58:31 m-vo: This IS the real world, friend Nov 01 21:58:33 And welcome. Nov 01 21:58:46 :-) Nov 01 21:58:52 Whatever. Nov 01 21:59:10 Yea, that is the answer I hear from Nokia people every now and then Nov 01 21:59:11 m-vo: you seem to believe that the real world consists of nothing you personally wouldn't do? Nov 01 22:00:00 RST38h: how hard is doing dev work on windows at the moment? Nov 01 22:00:14 ccooke: for Maemo? Impossible. Nov 01 22:00:28 vmware seems to work fine for most people. Nov 01 22:00:30 really? that's not good Nov 01 22:00:40 ccooke: Maemo SDK is Linux only, works best with Debian or Ubuntu, and only inside chroot Nov 01 22:00:44 its a linux based device! Nov 01 22:00:47 General: That is NOT doing it in Windows Nov 01 22:00:56 why would you want to dev on a windows system for it Nov 01 22:00:59 RST38h, the effect is the same. Nov 01 22:01:03 General: That is doing it inside fake Maemo running on Linux running in a fake vm Nov 01 22:01:09 Whatever arbitrary barriers you want to put up. Nov 01 22:01:24 General: The amount of quasisexual intercourse is much larger than just doing it in windows Nov 01 22:02:23 RST38h: sounds like the best option for what you want would be an armel emulated vm running maemo Nov 01 22:02:46 * Stslaptop wouldn't mind a maemo armel with distcc to a cross-compiler Nov 01 22:02:50 with some deployment tools to run that on a real tablet Nov 01 22:02:51 +qemu Nov 01 22:02:54 it actually works amazingly well Nov 01 22:03:16 develop in maemo, for maemo, but faster than on an emulator Nov 01 22:03:20 Stslaptop: I'd expect it to - qemu is pretty mature now Nov 01 22:03:49 ccooke, oh, the speedup isn't cos of qemu, an emulator is an emulator, but a native gcc crosscompiler helps :P Nov 01 22:04:25 Stslaptop: it wasn't clear you were talking about speed when I replied :-) Nov 01 22:05:13 when you've compiled a big project on a tablet, you prefer not to do it again :P Nov 01 22:05:45 see, that's why I opted not to try gentoo on the Zaurus... Nov 01 22:06:45 (although I should point out the n8x0 is more powerful than the first unix boxes I used by far... and I've waited out a few make worlds on them :-) Nov 01 22:06:56 maemo does provide a vm appliance for a reason Nov 01 22:07:38 it's so much easier to be patient when you know your kit is as fast as it gets :-) Nov 01 22:10:48 ~curse uplink for being unstable tonight Nov 01 22:10:49 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, uplink for being unstable tonight ! Nov 01 22:41:44 <`Mace> blah Nov 01 22:41:48 <`Mace> damn zimbra Nov 01 23:09:17 so, here's a question. maemo-pc-connectivity has that wonderful icon and a status of "broken but able to update" and now suddenly openssh-server does too. And they won't uninstall due to dependencies. maemo-pc-connectivity deps on opensshs I can't remove the openssh package, and fuse-utils deps on maemo-pc-connectivity... Nov 01 23:09:26 any suggestions for how to remove them so I can fix stuff? Nov 01 23:10:35 dpkg --purge --force-all packagemoo Nov 01 23:11:11 I'm going to assume packagemoo means the package name I'm looking to rain hot death upon? :) Nov 01 23:11:23 right Nov 01 23:11:43 we shall see Nov 01 23:11:50 this sounds like a terrible idea Nov 01 23:12:02 what? Nov 01 23:17:14 my n810 keeps saying that im out of memory when im deffently not Nov 01 23:18:23 heres what my file system looks like Nov 01 23:18:26 Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on Nov 01 23:18:26 /dev/mmcblk1p2 4.0M 2.6M 1.4M 65% /mnt/initfs Nov 01 23:18:26 none 512.0k 92.0k 420.0k 18% /mnt/initfs/tmp Nov 01 23:18:26 /dev/mmcblk0p2 1.6G 399.7M 1.2G 25% / Nov 01 23:18:28 none 512.0k 92.0k 420.0k 18% /tmp Nov 01 23:18:30 none 1.0M 68.0k 956.0k 7% /dev Nov 01 23:18:32 tmpfs 1.0M 0 1.0M 0% /dev/shm Nov 01 23:18:34 /dev/mmcblk0p1 1.9G 1.0G 881.8M 54% /media/mmc2 Nov 01 23:18:36 /dev/mmcblk1p1 120.9M 20.5M 100.4M 17% /media/mmc1 Nov 01 23:18:53 any idea's? Nov 01 23:19:11 My stepdad used to confuse hard drive space with "memory" all the time. Nov 01 23:19:32 blackdeath: use paste.be next time? Oh, you mean ideas about your flash storage. Nov 01 23:20:09 I need to add 'deffently' to my list of creative misspellings of 'definitely' also. Nov 01 23:20:55 i will us that next time, well im booting off my sd card and im using 128 of virtual mem,, sorry about the spelling im dyslexic Nov 01 23:20:59 b1ackdeath, run "top" in a terminal, it will show you memory used vs free Nov 01 23:21:20 that ifgure isn't entirely useful... Nov 01 23:21:33 ShadowJK_, true but live application memory isn't part of the filesystem either. Nov 01 23:21:36 Mem: 124068K used, 2728K free, 0K shrd, 2064K buff, 66608K cached Nov 01 23:21:48 so half effectively free.. Nov 01 23:22:03 Half? Nov 01 23:22:23 66M+2M out of 128 Nov 01 23:22:38 If it can repurpose the cache, yes. Nov 01 23:22:47 but why do i get a system message saying that it is full and need to free space,, iv also had the window manager crash a bunch of times Nov 01 23:24:01 What apps are running? Nov 01 23:24:11 And don't paste all. Nov 01 23:24:35 i did have the personal launcher and the menu but i uninstalled them Nov 01 23:26:51 why are there 4 maemo-launcher's ? running Nov 01 23:27:21 threads, not processes Nov 01 23:28:56 lcuk, ping Nov 01 23:31:16 anybody know how the button on the microphone is presented to software? Nov 01 23:33:53 I asked that question last May and nobody knew then either. Nov 01 23:34:12 woglinde: worked for maemo-pc-connectivity but openssh server gives http://pastebin.mozilla.org/566454 Nov 01 23:35:36 burnte whats ls -la /etc/rc2.d/S55ssh Nov 01 23:35:38 showing? Nov 01 23:36:46 -> ../init.d/ssh Nov 01 23:37:13 and whats ls -la ../init.d/ssh showing? Nov 01 23:37:43 aeh Nov 01 23:37:52 /etc/init.d/ssh Nov 01 23:38:51 yeah, obviously .. wiouldn't work, ls -la of /etc/init.d/ssh shows the file and path as one would expect Nov 01 23:39:15 hm try remove it manually Nov 01 23:39:17 with rm Nov 01 23:39:26 okay I got into my bed now Nov 01 23:40:07 totally worked Nov 01 23:40:12 woglinde++ Nov 01 23:40:15 for when he gets back. Nov 01 23:47:56 dererk, pong Nov 01 23:48:24 lcuk, passed on private the output of liqbase Nov 01 23:49:03 lcuk, maybe it's something to do with the 2008he running on a n770 hardware Nov 01 23:49:28 perfect dererk, thank you Nov 01 23:49:57 lcuk, np, please msg or memosrv me for more testing Nov 01 23:50:08 i will have a look when im not so tired, but that gives me hope its workable Nov 01 23:50:37 from the first things people were saying, it wouldnt even run - just having the log and seeing the error lets me advance from that Nov 01 23:51:41 dererk, have you got any other nokias, or is this your fulltime machine? Nov 01 23:53:27 lcuk, i've no other nokias, but i use it for playing and having fun :) Nov 01 23:55:02 heh yeah - i try to as well, ive heard though graphically there is more bandwidth available on the 770, but that the cpu let it down Nov 01 23:56:00 bad to hear that Nov 02 00:00:31 quantum of solace is flipping amazing! Nov 02 00:00:42 is it? Nov 02 00:00:48 i wanted to see it Nov 02 00:01:04 it's not on screen on .AR currently tough Nov 02 00:06:12 dererk, its way better than many previous bond films - i would have prefered sitting a bit further back than i was (right under the screen, ive got a sore neck) Nov 02 00:06:38 oh Nov 02 00:06:56 i really hated Casino Royale Nov 02 00:07:14 let's see if this guy learned something =) Nov 02 00:07:27 yeah, he was finding his feet - it felt like a bond movie this time Nov 02 00:07:43 really impressed with it Nov 02 00:08:11 ok ok, I bought it. Give me two :-P Nov 02 00:09:32 :P Nov 02 00:23:43 ok, ok, upgrading to diablo on a n770 hw was not a good idea =) Nov 02 00:33:14 im out Nov 02 00:33:16 bye Nov 02 00:33:27 ohh and hi bye lcuk Nov 02 00:33:44 hiya lc :) Nov 02 00:33:48 cya lc Nov 02 00:43:41 hey all, is there a PIM application for mamo? (aka nokia n810?) Nov 02 00:43:53 there will be Nov 02 00:44:23 lcuk, so the nokia n810 carn't function as an organiser? Nov 02 00:44:35 GuySoft, we are designing one at present and part of that process nicely groups together all the existing systems Nov 02 00:44:35 http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PIM Nov 02 00:44:43 there are existing apps out there Nov 02 00:45:41 i am considering buying a N810. and i really need a PIM manager (my palm died). the question is there are functional programs out there at the moment Nov 02 00:46:11 yes, go and have a look - that page i linked specifies most of the current players Nov 02 00:46:42 some are more feature complete than others (many being OSS they are available) and many perform perfectly well Nov 02 00:46:59 theres just no all in one encapsulated built for maemo pim yet Nov 02 00:49:10 lcuk, what i really need is the calendar, to do, and address book.. and make it syncable to some app in linux Nov 02 00:50:40 i dont care if its nice and sleek, the question is it it works.. Nov 02 00:50:50 i just carn't find any other solution Nov 02 00:51:54 GuySoft, im not the best person about specifics, i dont have much use for pim on device yet - the others who are writing up the spec know a lot more than me Nov 02 00:52:31 they know all the deficiences of each through trial and usage of the software, look on that page and you might find something that fits Nov 02 00:57:04 lcuk, from my experience the best way to check this is by locating someone that actually uses it.. otherwise you never know.. no matter how much you read Nov 02 00:58:01 agreed entirely, but in absence of one of those im afraid thats the best i can offer you Nov 02 01:21:39 lcuk, thanks for helping :-) .. ill try catching someone here later then.. Nov 02 01:22:20 i just feel like i lost an extension of myself when i have no organiser that works.. Nov 02 01:55:09 lcuk, btw, does it work well as a recorder? Nov 02 01:55:27 does what work as a recorder? Nov 02 01:55:38 and recording what Nov 02 01:55:49 lcuk, the nokia devices running mamo Nov 02 01:56:19 i gathered that much GuySoft, i meant does what program work well, or for recording what data Nov 02 01:59:39 bbiab Nov 02 02:19:42 How much time should the built-in battery meter say is remaining for idle/inuse.. on a fullcharged Nokia N800 ? Nov 02 02:25:37 I feel like inuse would be 8hrs, but not completely sure Nov 02 02:45:37 how would i format a SD card.. from the tablet ? Nov 02 02:49:51 does anyone have btscanner working on chinook? Nov 02 02:52:45 If i were to copy diablo to SD card.. how much filesize roughly am i looking at.. on the SD card? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 02 02:59:57 2008