**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 06 02:59:57 2008
Nov 06 03:00:20 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: is a 2gb sd card enough to try deblet ?
Nov 06 03:00:27 <disco_stu> y have one without use
Nov 06 03:00:28 <GeneralAntilles> Sure
Nov 06 03:00:56 <disco_stu> how much is it taking ?
Nov 06 03:01:33 <GeneralAntilles> Depends on what you install.
Nov 06 03:01:43 <disco_stu> i know
Nov 06 03:01:47 <disco_stu> but the plain install
Nov 06 03:01:48 <GeneralAntilles> Call it 400-1GB
Nov 06 03:01:58 <disco_stu> with xfce and some apps
Nov 06 03:02:29 <zakkm> Is it fast enough to show someone DE's?
Nov 06 03:02:36 <zakkm> like the difference between xfce, gnome and stuff
Nov 06 03:05:15 <l7> is seeking with mplayer broken with flv files?
Nov 06 03:05:20 <l7> on mplayer
Nov 06 03:05:36 <l7> also wondering if 1.0rc1-maemo.29.n8x0 is the latest version available
Nov 06 03:06:08 <zakkm> l7: i play flv just fine
Nov 06 03:06:20 <zakkm> had problems earlier today but turned out to be my own fault
Nov 06 03:07:14 <l7> can you seek through files?
Nov 06 03:07:32 <l7> i can't get it to skip with up/down/left right or page up/page down
Nov 06 03:07:36 <l7> or with -ss
Nov 06 03:08:38 <l7> https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=54 files are out of date too :\
Nov 06 03:08:43 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, looks good
Nov 06 03:09:12 <zakkm> Is there a way to get USB networking working in Mac?
Nov 06 03:10:55 <zakkm> i get a "module insertion has failed" message.
Nov 06 03:11:08 <zakkm> when i click set up usb networking
Nov 06 03:11:23 <l7> so can anyone seek through flvs from youtube in mplayer?
Nov 06 03:12:06 <zakkm> i could
Nov 06 03:12:17 <l7> just with left and right keys?
Nov 06 03:12:31 <zakkm> up and down too?
Nov 06 03:12:35 <zakkm> i believe
Nov 06 03:12:38 <l7> for me, it jumps forward and seems to go back
Nov 06 03:12:39 <zakkm> there is no other way is there ?
Nov 06 03:12:55 <zakkm> if you go forward to the end
Nov 06 03:12:58 <zakkm> it will playback from beginning
Nov 06 03:13:02 <zakkm> or if time is "broken"
Nov 06 03:13:21 <l7> the net result is that you have to hold it down if you want to skip more than a few seconds at a time
Nov 06 03:13:40 <l7> you can also use page up/page down to skip larger steps
Nov 06 03:13:47 <l7> if you start mplayer from the command line
Nov 06 03:13:48 <zakkm> i only have a n800
Nov 06 03:13:56 <zakkm> o
Nov 06 03:13:57 <l7> you can start it from ssh :)
Nov 06 03:14:08 <zakkm> pointless -.-
Nov 06 03:14:28 <l7> nah, it's good if i'm sitting at my desk
Nov 06 03:14:30 <zakkm> i dont get you ppl with ssh'ing for video playing
Nov 06 03:14:40 <l7> i can start mplayer, pick up the tablet and go to the touch
Nov 06 03:14:42 <zakkm> only time ive ever ssh'd is for remote server stuff
Nov 06 03:14:42 <l7> couch
Nov 06 03:14:46 <zakkm> not for personal stuff
Nov 06 03:24:54 <l7> hmm seeking works okay with mp4 files
Nov 06 03:25:06 <l7> must be something about stupid flv files that won't seek well
Nov 06 03:28:30 <l7> vlc had the same issue before the new major release
Nov 06 03:54:10 <l7> is it possible to configure a command line program as the default to open .mp4 and .flv files?
Nov 06 03:54:27 <l7> i want to use mplayer to play these
Nov 06 03:54:47 <l7> and also open these links from rss feeds
Nov 06 03:54:52 <derf> Almost nothing actually links directly to .flv files.
Nov 06 03:56:11 <l7> yeah, how can i tell the OS to use mplayer when i tap on .flvs?
Nov 06 03:56:33 <johnx> dbus-switchboard
Nov 06 03:57:28 <l7> ah cool, downloading it
Nov 06 04:30:08 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles:
Nov 06 04:30:22 <disco_stu> how long takes the new firmware flashing process ?
Nov 06 04:30:42 <disco_stu> aprox
Nov 06 04:31:05 <GeneralAntilles> 30 seconds
Nov 06 04:31:26 <disco_stu> i thougt flash roms were smaller
Nov 06 04:31:33 <disco_stu> but it is 136mb
Nov 06 04:31:49 <disco_stu> i think i'm going to upgrade to diablo after all
Nov 06 04:31:52 <Proteous> I had a flash rom for lunch
Nov 06 04:32:02 <Proteous> I think I burned the roof of my mouth though
Nov 06 04:33:14 * GeneralAntilles hands Proteous an ice cream sandwich.
Nov 06 04:33:22 <Proteous> thanks
Nov 06 04:34:31 * disco_stu hands Proteous a faso
Nov 06 04:35:59 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: after flashing.. is it possible to downgrade ?
Nov 06 04:36:17 <GeneralAntilles> All the FIASCO images are available.
Nov 06 04:36:17 <Proteous> usualy after flashing you go to jail
Nov 06 04:36:23 <Proteous> depending on how fast you can run
Nov 06 04:36:45 <disco_stu> fiasco is a bad name
Nov 06 04:37:10 <Proteous> my friends band is called "Fear the Fiasco"
Nov 06 04:37:47 <disco_stu> the could call it "hear the fiasco"
Nov 06 04:37:54 <disco_stu> that would be counterproducent
Nov 06 04:39:11 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: the las question.. what happens if flashing fails ?
Nov 06 04:39:37 <GeneralAntilles> Flash again
Nov 06 04:39:39 <disco_stu> s/las/last/
Nov 06 04:39:40 <infobot> disco_stu meant: GeneralAntilles: the last question.. what happens if flashing fails ?
Nov 06 04:39:58 <disco_stu> the n800 wont brick ?
Nov 06 04:40:39 <GeneralAntilles> Well, if it fails during flashing of the NOLO image it will
Nov 06 04:40:57 <GeneralAntilles> But that's a millisecond small window
Nov 06 04:41:13 <GeneralAntilles> and I've never heard of (or experience) a bricking due to a normal flash in 3 years.
Nov 06 04:41:29 <GeneralAntilles> s/experience/experienced/
Nov 06 04:41:29 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: and I've never heard of (or experienced) a bricking due to a normal flash in 3 years.
Nov 06 04:41:49 <disco_stu> what kind of bricking have u seen ?
Nov 06 04:42:09 <GeneralAntilles> Only from people being actively stupid.
Nov 06 04:42:21 <GeneralAntilles> Like mounting the NOLO partition while booted and writing to it.
Nov 06 04:42:41 <disco_stu> NOLO = initfs ?
Nov 06 04:42:53 <GeneralAntilles> No
Nov 06 04:42:58 <GeneralAntilles> NOkia LOader
Nov 06 04:43:01 <GeneralAntilles> The bootloader
Nov 06 04:43:20 <l7> man, i really want the clear command
Nov 06 04:43:53 <disco_stu> clear ?
Nov 06 04:43:59 <disco_stu> for console ?
Nov 06 04:44:02 <l7> yeah
Nov 06 04:44:10 <disco_stu> ctrl + l
Nov 06 04:44:20 <l7> oh nice
Nov 06 04:44:23 <l7> thanks
Nov 06 04:44:45 <l7> i wonder why clear isn't available manually
Nov 06 04:45:00 <disco_stu> ash
Nov 06 04:45:08 <l7> guess it saves a bit of space
Nov 06 04:45:15 <l7> even in bash it's not there
Nov 06 04:46:21 <disco_stu> well here is almos 2am
Nov 06 04:46:29 <disco_stu> s/almos/almost/
Nov 06 04:46:29 <infobot> disco_stu meant: well here is almost 2am
Nov 06 04:46:38 <disco_stu> so i'll be heading to my bed
Nov 06 04:46:44 <disco_stu> see you around
Nov 06 04:46:54 <l7> later
Nov 06 04:47:09 <l7> s/later/see ya
Nov 06 04:47:10 <l7> s/later/see ya/
Nov 06 04:47:11 <infobot> l7 meant: s/see ya/see ya
Nov 06 04:47:15 <l7> nifty bot
Nov 06 04:47:39 <disco_stu> lol
Nov 06 06:51:48 * Stskeeps yawns
Nov 06 06:55:20 * johnx continues having issues getting debootstrapped into ubuntu :/
Nov 06 06:55:52 <RST38h> moo, johnx
Nov 06 06:56:09 <johnx> m00f!
Nov 06 07:05:10 <RST38h> "In remarks delivered from the Rose Garden, the current occupant of the White House called Obama's election "uplifting."" (C)WashPost
Nov 06 07:05:22 <RST38h> Current occupNT,HEH
Nov 06 07:16:14 <johnx> using mkfs on different devices from screen is rather stress inducing...
Nov 06 07:16:29 <RST38h> mm...why?
Nov 06 07:18:56 <johnx> mkfs.ext3 /dev/sda ...
Nov 06 07:19:04 <johnx> crap wasn't that supposed to be /dev/sdi ?
Nov 06 07:19:23 <johnx> or was it /dev/mmcblk0p1 and I just formatted my usb stick?
Nov 06 07:19:42 <Stskeeps> heh
Nov 06 07:20:31 <Stskeeps> debootstrap on tablet of ubuntu was cp hardy to hasty in usr/share/debootstrap/scripts, debootstrap --arch=arm hasty /target repo or something
Nov 06 07:20:34 <johnx> luckily no problems this time. last time I accidentally wrote fat16 fs on my 500GB USB storage drive...
Nov 06 07:21:17 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 06 07:21:19 <johnx> Stskeeps, yeah, that's what I thought. I'm having issues with the zaurus misbehaving
Nov 06 07:21:34 <johnx> also, my 4GB card dying hasn't really helped things
Nov 06 07:24:56 * Stskeeps heads to work
Nov 06 07:28:31 <RST38h> johnx: Have to know your devices! =)
Nov 06 07:29:49 <l7> hmm, deblet looks really cool
Nov 06 07:32:04 <johnx> RST38h, I know my devices, I just forget what machine I'm sshed to :P
Nov 06 07:34:06 <RST38h> heheh
Nov 06 07:34:26 <johnx> I have problems maintaining state
Nov 06 07:34:33 <RST38h> if you want to really screw up though, run screen from inside te screen
Nov 06 07:34:44 <vincenzo88> Hello everybody
Nov 06 07:55:32 <johnx> ha! I was being too clever with debootstrap I think :)
Nov 06 08:14:59 <Stskeeps> oh?
Nov 06 08:15:45 <johnx> well actually I was wrong, no I'm starting to run out of ideas :/
Nov 06 08:15:50 <Stskeeps> hmm
Nov 06 08:15:59 <Stskeeps> what happens?
Nov 06 08:16:08 <Stskeeps> and where do you debootstrap from?
Nov 06 08:17:12 <johnx> well the zaurus has angstrom, so I did the first half on my desktop with debootstrap --foreign
Nov 06 08:17:20 <johnx> now this actually has worked before
Nov 06 08:17:36 <johnx> anyways, I have a couple ideas so I'll keep chewing on it
Nov 06 08:17:59 <Teijo777> anyone know how I can change userid on scratchbox?
Nov 06 08:18:14 <Teijo777> something akin to "su someuser"
Nov 06 08:22:28 <Stskeeps> zaurus's armv5?
Nov 06 08:22:53 <johnx> yeah
Nov 06 08:23:25 <johnx> old arm CPUs never go away, they just get cheaper :)
Nov 06 08:23:26 <Stskeeps> odd - admittedly i did debootstrap only on tablet, may be that foreign for hasty won't work
Nov 06 08:23:39 <johnx> the thing is I did this before :/
Nov 06 08:23:54 <johnx> I wish I did an rsync of my fresh install now
Nov 06 08:24:03 <Stskeeps> maybe use http://repository.handhelds.org/hasty-armv5el/pool/main/d/debootstrap/ ?
Nov 06 08:24:50 <johnx> might as well give it a shot
Nov 06 08:25:43 <Stskeeps> you know you have too many cables and crap laying in your office when professors come to ask you for firewire cables..
Nov 06 08:34:12 <aquatix> Stskeeps: lol
Nov 06 08:34:14 <Stskeeps> ah. no wonder people have had issues with installing deblet
Nov 06 08:34:19 <Stskeeps> master repo was down
Nov 06 08:34:29 <johnx> craziness
Nov 06 08:34:40 <johnx> I guess that's what I get for not having any devices running debian
Nov 06 08:35:09 <Stskeeps> or not..hmm
Nov 06 08:35:56 <aquatix> johnx: time to build one?
Nov 06 08:36:23 <johnx> devices running ubuntu are close enough :)
Nov 06 08:36:43 <johnx> I tend to switch between debian and ubuntu every couple years
Nov 06 08:37:33 * aquatix has both
Nov 06 08:37:45 <aquatix> debian on servers and laptop, ubuntu on workstation
Nov 06 08:41:04 <johnx> I think I managed to trigger a somewhat obscure bug in debootstrap :)
Nov 06 08:41:33 <aquatix> ah?
Nov 06 08:42:11 <johnx> apparently using --foreign can trigger the problem I was seeing in certain circumstances
Nov 06 08:42:33 <johnx> without --foreign both devices are plodding away happily :)
Nov 06 08:44:49 <aquatix> odd
Nov 06 08:47:31 <Stskeeps> johnx: think it can be a good excersise to develop m-r both on zaurus and n800 to add generic abilities to it
Nov 06 08:47:41 <Stskeeps> if m-r can handle hildon stuff :)
Nov 06 08:47:45 <Stskeeps> er, zaurus
Nov 06 08:47:51 <johnx> it *should* be able to
Nov 06 08:48:05 <johnx> it just won't be fast
Nov 06 08:48:19 <johnx> you can think of it as similar hardware to the 770
Nov 06 08:48:32 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Nov 06 08:48:41 <Stskeeps> and 770s obviously too, wasn't there a non-vfp version of mojo too?
Nov 06 08:49:03 <johnx> there's v5 v5-vfp and v6-vfp
Nov 06 08:49:06 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 06 08:49:10 <Stskeeps> and 770 was armv5
Nov 06 08:49:15 <johnx> that covers all our bases. zaurus and 770 have no vfp
Nov 06 08:51:27 * johnx wanders off to do dishes :/
Nov 06 08:51:30 <Stskeeps> have fun
Nov 06 08:52:41 * johnx misses his dishwashing machine ...
Nov 06 08:53:05 <Stskeeps> mm, when i come home i have to clean up the house a bit as well
Nov 06 08:53:08 <Stskeeps> having guest over
Nov 06 08:54:19 <aquatix> :)
Nov 06 08:54:35 * RST38h doesn't miss dishwashing machines, the don't do good job anyway
Nov 06 08:55:42 <Stskeeps> i kinda wish i had one now, cos it hurts my wrist to wash dishes
Nov 06 08:56:00 <wanders> johnx: My dishes?
Nov 06 08:59:28 <johnx> got enough of my own. :P
Nov 06 09:00:06 <wanders> johnx: Then I don't understand why you mentioned me :)
Nov 06 09:02:55 <johnx> because your nick perfectly describes my actions. In fact they made an English word based on your nick :D
Nov 06 09:03:45 <wanders> :)
Nov 06 09:07:13 <errordeveloper> what do you think about formating memory card in ext2 ?
Nov 06 09:08:02 <Stskeeps> johnx: http://trac.tspre.org/projects/m-r btw
Nov 06 09:08:07 <Stskeeps> same login/pass etc as deblet
Nov 06 09:08:43 <johnx> errordeveloper, a lot of us here have done that
Nov 06 09:09:00 <Stskeeps> has svn associated (/svn/m-r) as well
Nov 06 09:11:24 <errordeveloper> so i'll proly format my 8gig internal one in ext2 and a 128meg one into vfat (so it could be put into windows pc or mac)
Nov 06 09:11:54 <Stskeeps> or just partition it, one fat partition and rest ext2
Nov 06 09:13:52 <errordeveloper> yeah ..that's what i thought too ..leave the small one out,
Nov 06 09:15:39 <Stskeeps> nah, you'll like the small 128meg one for when maemo complains :P
Nov 06 09:17:10 <errordeveloper> but the partitioning might cause a confusion, cause it's not me who is actually using the tablet
Nov 06 09:17:10 <errordeveloper> so i'd just tell them to use small mc in case of swapping data is needed and use the big one for storage
Nov 06 09:17:10 <errordeveloper> and on ext2 the data will be safer
Nov 06 09:17:11 <errordeveloper> complains about what??
Nov 06 09:17:13 <errordeveloper> what about ext3 on memory cards? is it really so bad for the write cycles?
Nov 06 09:26:04 <Stskeeps> johnx: i think that in the m-r project everything is fair game if we are to demonstrate something, such as battery applets and such
Nov 06 09:34:11 <suihkulokki> wearing of memory cards is overrated
Nov 06 09:34:30 <suihkulokki> memory cards become obsolete before they wear out :P
Nov 06 09:35:14 <Stskeeps> yet johnx has managed to destroy several.. his n800 must be a sd-card eating monster ;)
Nov 06 09:35:26 <X-Fade> True, as long as you don't have something rewrite a file constantly, you won't ever notice it.
Nov 06 09:36:22 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: that's probably another problem - poor quality of cheap memory cards
Nov 06 09:47:29 <RST38h> XFade: swap file?
Nov 06 09:48:05 * RST38h had to enable swap on his 810 and has mental jitters since then
Nov 06 09:48:13 <RST38h> WHAT IF IT BREAKS?
Nov 06 09:48:48 <X-Fade> Symlink it to your external card?
Nov 06 09:49:22 <RST38h> but what if external card breaks?
Nov 06 09:49:27 <X-Fade> Replace it?
Nov 06 09:49:35 <X-Fade> 1GB card = 3 euro ;)
Nov 06 09:49:53 * RST38h has got 8GB card, more expensive =)
Nov 06 09:50:04 <X-Fade> RST38h: Life-time warranty?
Nov 06 09:50:16 <RST38h> btw, are there any confirmed cases of swapping destroying internal flash?
Nov 06 09:50:27 <X-Fade> Not possible.
Nov 06 09:50:34 <X-Fade> Embedded under the cpu.. Same package.
Nov 06 09:50:53 <X-Fade> Ehm replacing is not possible.
Nov 06 09:51:09 <X-Fade> But I haven't seen any reports.
Nov 06 09:51:25 <Stskeeps> anyone ever thrashed their internal flash though?
Nov 06 09:51:31 <Stskeeps> beyond the partitioning stuff
Nov 06 09:51:40 <Stskeeps> as in, the internal SD
Nov 06 09:51:54 <johnx> I'm pretty sure that swapping / ext3 wasn't the factor in the deaths of any of my cards' deaths
Nov 06 09:52:22 <X-Fade> Wrong voltage etc is more likely?
Nov 06 09:52:43 <johnx> maybe death-by-static-electricity
Nov 06 09:52:46 <RST38h> His halo destroys flash.
Nov 06 09:52:50 <X-Fade> Or wear/tear outside the device.
Nov 06 09:53:17 <johnx> though one of my cards had bad sectors to begin with and developed more rather quickly
Nov 06 09:53:58 <johnx> I think that would be classified as a defective card, but I can't help but thinking that such heavy utilization might have contributed to the speed of its death
Nov 06 09:55:07 <X-Fade> I generally don't care too much about it. It is meant to be used, not meant to be saved.
Nov 06 10:01:25 <timeless> helllo world
Nov 06 10:01:43 <RST38h> Ah, found a howto about swap on external cards
Nov 06 10:01:59 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 06 10:02:09 <RST38h> There is a catch though: the external card won't be available as usb mass storage
Nov 06 10:10:42 <Stskeeps> who needs that anyway when you have ssh? :P
Nov 06 10:12:05 <Stskeeps> johnx: i think i'll spend some time seeing if i can showhorn ubuntu into sb2
Nov 06 10:12:25 <Stskeeps> .. shoehorn
Nov 06 10:27:51 <dksaarth> Hi guys
Nov 06 10:28:15 <dksaarth> can anybody help me with a problem ? I'm trying to install the maemopad test application
Nov 06 10:29:00 <dksaarth> currently trying sb2 dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -b
Nov 06 10:29:13 <dksaarth> but it crashes when it tries to use xargs
Nov 06 10:29:23 <dksaarth> and when i manually run the xargs binary it crashes as well
Nov 06 10:29:59 <RST38h> type sb2, cd to maemopad directory, and build there
Nov 06 10:30:04 <RST38h> do not use dpkg-buildpackage
Nov 06 10:30:22 <dksaarth> i.e. /opt/maemo/dists/etch/usr/bin/xargs
Nov 06 10:30:22 <dksaarth> xargs: xargs.c:450: main: Assertion `bc_ctl.arg_max <= (131072-2048)' failed.
Nov 06 10:30:22 <dksaarth> Aborted (core dumped)
Nov 06 10:30:34 <Stskeeps> johnx: armv5el or -vfp when it comes to hasty?
Nov 06 10:31:34 <Stskeeps> nm
Nov 06 10:39:49 <dksaarth> sigh my connection is suck today
Nov 06 10:39:49 <dksaarth> sucky even
Nov 06 10:39:49 <dksaarth> did anybody see my message about xargs crashing ?
Nov 06 10:49:35 <karbas> hmm.. how should i remove uri encoding (eg. %20) from filenames when i want just to show it
Nov 06 10:50:04 <karbas> i mean showing "filename with spaces" not as "filename%20with%20spaces"
Nov 06 10:56:42 <Jaffa> karbas: use a library. Although in Perl you can do it in one pack() statement
Nov 06 10:57:02 <karbas> but in C
Nov 06 10:57:11 <Jaffa> use a library.
Nov 06 10:57:17 <karbas> what library:)??
Nov 06 10:57:19 <karbas> -?
Nov 06 10:59:13 <florian> glib should be able to do this
Nov 06 11:03:29 <karbas> tried already with g_filename_to_utf8() but still there's %20
Nov 06 11:03:38 <karbas> or is there maybe some other function
Nov 06 11:09:49 <Stskeeps> hm. qemu-system-arm for versatile-pb doesn't do armv5el-vfp?
Nov 06 11:10:33 <johnx> probably just plane armv5el, right?
Nov 06 11:10:38 <suihkulokki> yep
Nov 06 11:11:03 <Stskeeps> alright
Nov 06 11:11:11 <Stskeeps> that explains why debootstrap blew up on me :P
Nov 06 11:11:40 <johnx> heh, neither of us are having good luck with debootstrap tonight
Nov 06 11:11:44 <suihkulokki> although as it is a emulator, it can be modified to deviate from the real HW
Nov 06 11:52:53 <timeless> ping?
Nov 06 11:53:01 <timeless> names #maemo
Nov 06 11:53:49 <aquatix> timeless: pong
Nov 06 12:02:10 <dksaarth> anybody know why my xargs is crashing ?
Nov 06 12:03:32 <RST38h> no.
Nov 06 12:04:00 <RST38h> but the best guess is that you are using sb2 for something it has not been designed to do
Nov 06 12:06:36 <dksaarth> dksaarth@dksaarth-desktop:~/src/mytest/maemopad-2.4$ /opt/maemo/dists/etch/usr/bin/xargs
Nov 06 12:06:36 <dksaarth> xargs: xargs.c:450: main: Assertion `bc_ctl.arg_max <= (131072-2048)' failed.
Nov 06 12:06:41 <dksaarth> might be a problem with the glibc ?
Nov 06 12:10:24 <dksaarth> im following the maemo tutorial, trying to get the maemopad test app to work
Nov 06 12:10:24 <dksaarth> but when running sb2 dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -b
Nov 06 12:10:27 <dksaarth> it crashes because xargs gets called in dh_fixperms
Nov 06 12:12:43 <RST38h> Does tutorial describe SB or SB2?
Nov 06 12:12:51 <RST38h> Could you give me the URL to that tutorial?
Nov 06 12:18:40 <vincenzo88> http://www.scratchbox.org/documentation/user/scratchbox-1.0/html/tutorial.html
Nov 06 12:19:07 <vincenzo88> This is want you want ?
Nov 06 12:19:18 <vincenzo88> what*
Nov 06 12:24:13 <dksaarth> sorry, was on the phone
Nov 06 12:24:21 <dksaarth> the tutorial i followed was http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install-ubuntu.html
Nov 06 12:24:27 <dksaarth> it's using sb2
Nov 06 12:25:22 <dksaarth> the command im trying to run is sb2 dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -b
Nov 06 12:25:22 <dksaarth> which fails because the xargs command fails
Nov 06 12:26:16 <dksaarth> the rootstrap i am trying to use is diablo41_armel , toolchain is 2005q3, and tools are etch
Nov 06 12:32:30 <dksaarth> maemo-runtime start diablo41_armel works fine (i.e. it loads the emulator and i can select things in it - doesn't seem to have a lot installed tho)
Nov 06 12:34:42 <dksaarth> bugger, my connection died
Nov 06 12:48:38 <dksaarth> RST38h, any idea? did my messages about it being sb2 and the tutorial i was following come through ?
Nov 06 12:52:36 <dksaarth_2> sigh
Nov 06 12:52:47 <dksaarth_2> maybe a web cgi client will have better luck
Nov 06 12:54:18 <dksaarth_2> RST38h, any idea? did my messages about it being sb2 and the tutorial i was following come through ? My apologies if i am repeating my self here, my connection seems very bad today
Nov 06 12:56:33 <dksaarth_2> so my clients quit message comes through, but not messages I send between my clients... :P
Nov 06 13:23:14 * Stskeeps curses sb2
Nov 06 13:23:42 <Stskeeps> yes, cannot create binaries, no further explanation
Nov 06 13:24:34 <lopz> hola
Nov 06 13:24:38 <lcuk> Stskeeps, convert everything to vb.not ;)
Nov 06 13:25:43 <lcuk> balls jaiku is busy
Nov 06 13:40:52 <Stskeeps> okay, sb2 is more sane than sb1.
Nov 06 13:42:19 <dksaarth_2> can anybody here give me some advice on porting my application to a n810 ? - iv installed maemoe, emulation works, maemopad works - i need to add a library (exosip) for my program in order to get it to compile
Nov 06 13:42:26 <dksaarth_2> not sure how to go about doing that ? from inside sb2 ?
Nov 06 13:43:02 <Stskeeps> build the package for it as you would an application i guess
Nov 06 13:43:07 <Stskeeps> does it already have a debian package?
Nov 06 13:43:13 <dksaarth_2> yes
Nov 06 13:43:37 <dksaarth_2> can i just install the deb using dpkg ?
Nov 06 13:43:54 <dksaarth_2> *pretty new to this whole crosschain compiling / emulation business*
Nov 06 13:45:14 <Stskeeps> http://packages.debian.org/lenny/libexosip2-4 , get the source packages on the side and then dpkg-source -x the.dsc .
Nov 06 13:45:18 <Stskeeps> and then build the source package
Nov 06 13:46:28 <dksaarth_2> thanks, will give that a bash
Nov 06 13:53:27 <Jaffa> dksaarth_2: http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/ should help you rebuilding a Debian package. Although, if it's just a library with no additional build hacks it won't really be necessary.
Nov 06 13:55:07 <dksaarth_2> thanks - its a library that in turn depends on other libraries
Nov 06 13:55:22 <dksaarth_2> might have to go grabbing source of everything and build it all?....
Nov 06 14:03:51 <guardian> anyone here ever developed with the limo platform ?
Nov 06 14:13:36 <johnx> might not be the best time to start developing for limo...
Nov 06 14:18:16 <disco_stu> why the hell is maemo.org so slow ??
Nov 06 14:19:26 <StsN800> disco_stu, they are waiting to replace the 770s running it when n900 comes out.
Nov 06 14:19:38 <RST38h> disco: it is running on a bunch of 770s
Nov 06 14:20:01 <disco_stu> lol
Nov 06 14:20:24 <disco_stu> i flipped trying to imagine a 770's cluster
Nov 06 14:21:39 <StsN800> its where all wsod 770s go
Nov 06 14:21:43 <dksaarth_2> Stskeeps: I downloaded the source package, configured it and compiled it, but not too sure where to go from here ?
Nov 06 14:21:51 <disco_stu> wsod ?
Nov 06 14:22:00 <disco_stu> ~wsod
Nov 06 14:22:02 <infobot> well, wsod is IBM's Workspace on Demand, a global e-Business applications environment
Nov 06 14:22:05 <StsN800> dksaarth_2, dpkg -i i guess
Nov 06 14:22:20 <disco_stu> thanks bootie
Nov 06 14:22:38 <StsN800> infobot, no, wsod is white screen of death
Nov 06 14:22:39 <infobot> okay, StsN800
Nov 06 14:23:05 <dksaarth_2> StsN800: eeer, i don't have a .deb to give dpkg -i ?
Nov 06 14:23:07 <disco_stu> ~wsod
Nov 06 14:23:08 <infobot> well, wsod is white screen of death
Nov 06 14:23:15 <disco_stu> good puppy
Nov 06 14:23:20 <johnx> dksaarth_2, did you do ./configure ; make *or* did you dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot ?
Nov 06 14:23:30 <dksaarth_2> i did the configure ; make
Nov 06 14:23:34 <dksaarth_2> dpkg-buildpackage fails
Nov 06 14:23:47 <johnx> interesting, in what way?
Nov 06 14:23:54 <dksaarth_2> parsechangelog/debian: error: unrecognised line, at file debian/changelog line 2
Nov 06 14:23:57 <StsN800> johnx, think i have m-r sdk going tonight
Nov 06 14:24:00 <dksaarth_2> dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package is
Nov 06 14:24:07 <StsN800> using sb2
Nov 06 14:25:28 <johnx> dksaarth_2, you grab the .dsc .diff.gz and .tar.gz for a package, then run dpkg-source -x foo.dsc, then cd into the directory it makes and run dpkg-buildpackage -r fakeroot
Nov 06 14:25:45 <johnx> Stskeeps, that's great!
Nov 06 14:25:47 <dksaarth_2> thanks i got confused
Nov 06 14:26:36 <RST38h> Heh, Nokia seems to be swiching to Windows CE
Nov 06 14:26:52 <johnx> sure, debian packaging can be a little bit much to take in all at once :)
Nov 06 14:27:00 <johnx> RST38h, pics or it didn't happen
Nov 06 14:27:08 <RST38h> no problemo
Nov 06 14:27:28 <RST38h> Here, feed: http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-500-4-3-touchscreen-auto-navigation-gps-bluetooth-text-to-speech/q/loc/101/207937443.html
Nov 06 14:28:13 <disco_stu> wow, thats nice
Nov 06 14:29:28 <RST38h> Yes, WinCE is definitely nicer than Maemo. And cheaper too! And does all the multimedia stuff without requiring you to be a rocket scientist!
Nov 06 14:29:44 <RST38h> Isn't it absolutely wonderful, disco?
Nov 06 14:34:23 <suihkulokki> RST38h: N bought a company that made those based on CE long before getting bought
Nov 06 14:34:38 <RST38h> ah
Nov 06 14:35:16 <disco_stu> CE is shit
Nov 06 14:35:27 * RST38h already imagined the horror and loathing on iTT
Nov 06 14:35:39 <disco_stu> i mean.. what is great is the attempt of nokia to get into gps receiver market
Nov 06 14:35:54 <johnx> RST38h, interspersed with a couple people cheering
Nov 06 14:35:59 <guardian> johnx: why that not the best time ?
Nov 06 14:36:00 <RST38h> Wait, we can still induce that horror and loathing with a couple of well designed posts! =)
Nov 06 14:36:16 <RST38h> johnx: Not people, nutballs
Nov 06 14:36:38 <johnx> guardian, seems like motorola's limo roadmap isn't that firm lately
Nov 06 14:36:58 <guardian> johnx: it also looks it's not open anyway
Nov 06 14:37:02 <RST38h> Motorola has no limo roadmap. Motorola's Linux platform is officially dead.
Nov 06 14:37:12 <johnx> no officially
Nov 06 14:37:19 <RST38h> officially.
Nov 06 14:37:23 <johnx> their official line is that they're still working with limo
Nov 06 14:37:29 <johnx> want me to link their press release?
Nov 06 14:37:38 <suihkulokki> RST38h: s/'s Linux platform /
Nov 06 14:37:51 <RST38h> They officially declared that they are leaving: WinMobile for business, Android for media phones, Java for budget
Nov 06 14:38:03 <RST38h> johnx: Yes please
Nov 06 14:38:27 <guardian> if motorola leaves, who remains ?
Nov 06 14:38:42 <johnx> RST38h, http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=167228
Nov 06 14:38:51 <johnx> not a press release I guess, but an official communication
Nov 06 14:39:13 <johnx> their long term plans probably don't involve limo
Nov 06 14:40:18 <dksaarth_2> hmmm - when trying to dpkg -i i now get /home/dksaarth/.maemo-sdk/rootstraps/armel/diablo41_armel/sbin/ldconfig: Can't open configuration file /etc/ld.so.conf: No such file or directory
Nov 06 14:40:34 <guardian> johnx: did you ever have to work on limo ?
Nov 06 14:40:34 <johnx> touch /etc/ld.so.conf
Nov 06 14:40:44 <dksaarth_2> it does exist johnx .....
Nov 06 14:41:21 <dksaarth_2> which is wierd....
Nov 06 14:41:35 <dksaarth_2> what "mode" should i be in for this ?
Nov 06 14:41:39 <dksaarth_2> i did a sudo sb2 -e
Nov 06 14:41:44 <dksaarth_2> then a dpkg -i *.deb
Nov 06 14:41:45 <johnx> aaah...sb2
Nov 06 14:42:14 <jumpula> sudo sb2?
Nov 06 14:42:36 <suihkulokki> now _that_ is recipe for disaster :>
Nov 06 14:42:42 <johnx> this is probably related to the different "view" that apt-get has of your system. look in area where the rootstrap was unpacked and see if there really is an ld.so.conf
Nov 06 14:42:43 <jumpula> indeed :)
Nov 06 14:43:01 <dksaarth_2> so sudo sb2 = very bad idea ?
Nov 06 14:43:04 <jumpula> yes
Nov 06 14:43:18 <jumpula> you should not use sudo with sb2. ever.
Nov 06 14:43:53 <dksaarth_2> okay. now I know :) thanks.
Nov 06 14:43:55 <dksaarth_2> i did it because i got
Nov 06 14:43:57 <dksaarth_2> [SB2 emulate diablo41_armel] dksaarth@dksaarth-desktop libosip $ dpkg -i *.deb dpkg: requested operation requires superuser privilege
Nov 06 14:44:10 <jumpula> fakeroot
Nov 06 14:44:36 <dksaarth_2> sorry jumpula ? fakeroot command not found
Nov 06 14:44:42 <dksaarth_2> or is it fakeroot sb2
Nov 06 14:45:03 <jumpula> you@host% sudo apt-get install fakeroot
Nov 06 14:45:15 <jumpula> sb2 -e fakeroot dpkg -i foo.deb
Nov 06 14:45:31 <jumpula> i know nothing of scratchbox2 but that would make sense to me
Nov 06 14:46:05 <jumpula> assuming the -e was emulation mode with sb2
Nov 06 14:46:11 <dksaarth_2> yeah it was
Nov 06 14:46:27 <Stskeeps> or -rfakeroot in dpkg-buildpackage
Nov 06 14:46:52 <jumpula> sb2 (in contrary to sb1) uses the tools in your host system (plus some creative path mapping)
Nov 06 14:47:26 <jumpula> but the principle is the same. you need to have the tool *somewhere*, either on the target or on your host.
Nov 06 14:47:42 <dksaarth_2> i have it on my host, i.e. i can run fakeroot sb2, but not sb2 fakeroot
Nov 06 14:48:32 <jumpula> oh, yes. the emulation mode is restricted to the target.
Nov 06 14:48:34 <jumpula> hmm
Nov 06 14:48:39 <jumpula> try -i (install mode)
Nov 06 14:49:35 <dksaarth_2> sb2 -m install fakeroot dpkg -i *.deb /opt/maemo/dists/etch/bin/bash: fakeroot: command not found
Nov 06 14:50:05 <dksaarth_2> (-i doesn't exist for sb2)
Nov 06 14:50:21 <jumpula> suihkulokki: is install mode too restricted on target?
Nov 06 14:50:32 <jumpula> suihkulokki: or does it have the path mappings only for apt?
Nov 06 14:50:39 <dksaarth_2> could i do a sb2 apt-get fakeroot ?
Nov 06 14:50:55 <jumpula> you can do that
Nov 06 14:51:03 <jumpula> if you have a repository for the target that contains fakeroot
Nov 06 14:51:16 <jumpula> then you can even use the -e
Nov 06 14:51:32 <dksaarth_2> hmm dont think i do have a repository for it
Nov 06 14:51:33 <jumpula> i'm not entirely sure which kind of bird the install mode really is
Nov 06 14:51:45 <jumpula> you can also build that package for your target
Nov 06 14:52:08 <jumpula> but i'm assuming sdk+ is using host's fakeroot, so there should be a way
Nov 06 14:53:38 <dksaarth_2> hmmm
Nov 06 14:53:46 <suihkulokki> I don't know about the install mode
Nov 06 14:54:00 <jumpula> ok
Nov 06 14:54:23 <jumpula> i was kinda assuming that, but since i have no clue about that mode myself...
Nov 06 14:54:28 <jumpula> never hurts to ask :)
Nov 06 14:57:23 <dksaarth_2> aaaha - sb2 has a -R paramater
Nov 06 14:57:41 <dksaarth_2> -R     Execute commands in fakeroot environment
Nov 06 14:58:01 <dksaarth_2> but now i get
Nov 06 14:58:03 <dksaarth_2> dpkg: error processing libosip2-3_2.2.2-3.1_armel.deb (--install):  unable to create `./usr/share/doc/libosip2-3/changelog.gz': Permission denied
Nov 06 14:58:43 <johnx> I wonder if this might be caused by having used sudo earlier?
Nov 06 14:59:08 <dksaarth_2> yeah maybe - ill go try see if i can find any files owned by root and change them to my user
Nov 06 15:01:26 <dksaarth_2> :D
Nov 06 15:01:28 <dksaarth_2> seems to work fine now
Nov 06 15:01:33 <dksaarth_2> i chowned the necessary files
Nov 06 15:01:36 <johnx> w00!
Nov 06 15:01:46 <dksaarth_2> thanks :)
Nov 06 15:02:00 <thopiekar> hi
Nov 06 15:02:00 <thopiekar> could someone tell me why the hole community is so lazy the last time?
Nov 06 15:02:02 <dksaarth_2> one library down, 2 more to go methinks
Nov 06 15:02:20 <johnx> thopiekar, uhm, what?
Nov 06 15:02:52 <johnx> dksaarth_2, no problem. I'll probably be using sb2 very shortly, so it's good to know in advance where I'll run into problems :D
Nov 06 15:03:35 <dksaarth_2> heh
Nov 06 15:09:07 <jumpula> dksaarth_2: you're lucky. you could've ended up with arm glibc on your host with careless using of sudo sb2 :)
Nov 06 15:09:25 <thopiekar> it think especially nokia'S developters and other projects like canola2 are not "really" working on thier platform/projects... I remember the first days, when i bought my N800, the community brought daily updates and other improvements... but in the last weeks  it appears that the community is dead , in comparison to the past! what are the reasons?
Nov 06 15:09:49 <johnx> so what project are you working on?
Nov 06 15:10:06 <thopiekar> bluesixty...
Nov 06 15:10:56 <thopiekar> but i have not time to work on this because i have to do lots of school-stuff ;(
Nov 06 15:11:11 <thopiekar> *no
Nov 06 15:11:14 <johnx> I'll let you ponder this for a while
Nov 06 15:12:43 <thopiekar> hmmm..
Nov 06 15:13:01 <johnx> :)
Nov 06 15:16:53 <johnx> I also know that a lot of projects that don't appear to be doing anything are actually working really hard behind the scenes
Nov 06 15:17:37 <thopiekar> hmm you might be right ;]
Nov 06 15:20:45 <thopiekar> I hope that there will come lots of great updates in the next week's/month's ^^ mainly somethink from the canola2 project and the a2dp support by nokia!
Nov 06 15:21:27 <johnx> I have some doubts about a2dp coming soon
Nov 06 15:21:39 <johnx> at least from Nokia
Nov 06 15:22:00 <thopiekar> why?
Nov 06 15:22:00 <johnx> I'm sure canola will have some great updates once in a while
Nov 06 15:22:07 <GeneralAntilles> It's coming in Maemo 5
Nov 06 15:22:13 <GeneralAntilles> There are no doubts
Nov 06 15:22:16 <johnx> that's why
Nov 06 15:22:23 <johnx> emphasis on "soon"
Nov 06 15:22:29 <GeneralAntilles> It wont be coming to Diablo.
Nov 06 15:22:56 <thopiekar> but maemo5 will be available for the n800, too... right?
Nov 06 15:23:04 <johnx> maybe
Nov 06 15:23:06 <thopiekar> !
Nov 06 15:23:07 <disco_stu> thopiekar: hope so
Nov 06 15:23:09 <GeneralAntilles> Undetermined, but unlikely.
Nov 06 15:23:21 <thopiekar> disco_stu: me too
Nov 06 15:23:40 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, at least an unofficial version is more likely this time than last time
Nov 06 15:24:21 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, good luck shoehorning Fremantles audio framework onto OMAP2 for A2DP
Nov 06 15:24:57 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, aren't the going with pulseaudio?
Nov 06 15:25:14 <GeneralAntilles> The DSP stuff isn't going to be plug and play.
Nov 06 15:25:24 <johnx> yeah, never expected it to
Nov 06 15:25:47 <qwerty12> If http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=231074&postcount=264 is true, then I don't expect Fremantle's A2DP stuff to work on Diablo.
Nov 06 15:25:57 <GeneralAntilles> and A2DP wasn't really ever the big issue, it was A2DP that didn't skip or nuke battery life
Nov 06 15:26:21 <johnx> a2dp will always nuke battery life :)
Nov 06 15:26:31 <johnx> it's a constant hi-speed stream over bluetooth
Nov 06 15:27:10 <GeneralAntilles> Less so when the DSP is doing the heavy lifting than when the CPU is doing it, though.
Nov 06 15:28:35 <johnx> I was an early A2DP adopter but I'm kind of over it now. It's an awful lot sacrifice to get sub-par sound quality on heavy, expensive headphones
Nov 06 15:29:47 <GeneralAntilles> I have better speakers these days than I do headphones
Nov 06 15:30:16 <disco_stu> people.. is a n900 coming ?
Nov 06 15:30:18 <johnx> I have a pair of ~$8 headphones that sound better than my $80 motorola bt headphones
Nov 06 15:30:24 <GeneralAntilles> Of course
Nov 06 15:30:26 <GeneralAntilles> Sometime next year.
Nov 06 15:30:42 <disco_stu> and what will bring ?
Nov 06 15:30:53 <johnx> search for n900 on itt :)
Nov 06 15:31:05 <johnx> or maemo5 on google
Nov 06 15:31:33 <GeneralAntilles> The wikipedia page on Maemo will tell you everything you need to know.
Nov 06 15:31:47 <thopiekar> but whats the difference of my n95'S a2dp-support and the a2dp-support of my n800 (johnx's thead on iTT)?
Nov 06 15:32:04 <johnx> one is running S60 and one is running linux?
Nov 06 15:32:20 <thopiekar> yes
Nov 06 15:32:30 <johnx> that's the difference
Nov 06 15:32:40 <qwerty12> thopiekar, nokia actually worked on the bluetooth in S60 and said fuck all to the bluez
Nov 06 15:32:54 <johnx> qwerty12, actually that's hilariously not true :)
Nov 06 15:32:58 <thopiekar> but isn't alsa on the iTT emulated?
Nov 06 15:33:06 <thopiekar> ;D
Nov 06 15:33:20 <johnx> Nokia put a ton of work into bluez on linux and then failed to use all of the cool features on their NITs
Nov 06 15:33:35 <RST38h> back
Nov 06 15:33:37 <timeless> err
Nov 06 15:33:48 <RST38h> A2DP? Bulky headphones? Not true any more
Nov 06 15:33:48 <timeless> the features were mostly not ready
Nov 06 15:34:07 <RST38h> And, at least the headphones themselves live forever on a single charge
Nov 06 15:34:23 <qwerty12> johnx, I'm not going to pretend I know the inner workings but me brother's N73 works with A2DP better. And my N800 cost a whole lot more than the N73.
Nov 06 15:34:40 <qwerty12> s/inner workings/inner workings of bluez/
Nov 06 15:34:40 <infobot> qwerty12 meant: johnx, I'm not going to pretend I know the inner workings of bluez but me brother's N73 works with A2DP better. And my N800 cost a whole lot more than the N73.
Nov 06 15:35:10 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, you're starting to sound like itT.
Nov 06 15:35:27 <johnx> qwerty12, but Nokia *wrote* the current A2DP implementation for Linux. It works great...but they couldn't be bothered to polish it and work it into maemo
Nov 06 15:35:49 <qwerty12> I'm saying what I've observed.
Nov 06 15:36:20 <johnx> timeless, I suppose so. It's been working pretty well unofficially for a *long* time though
Nov 06 15:36:48 <qwerty12> johnx, heh, the irony :)
Nov 06 15:37:01 <timeless> johnx: as a linux user, i'd say thanks
Nov 06 15:37:13 <timeless> but as a paying n800 owner, i can understand your frustration
Nov 06 15:37:15 <RST38h> johnx: The problem with Maemo is a bit different. It is not bluez to blame
Nov 06 15:37:36 <timeless> but i'm pretty sure you'd understand the frustration of the guy who worked on bluez that the feature isn't used
Nov 06 15:37:54 <qwerty12> But I won't deny that I knew that A2DP on N8x0 was bullshit before I bought it so A2DP wasn't a buying factor for me.
Nov 06 15:38:10 <RST38h> johnx: Maemo does compression/uncompression via DSP and its CPU is too slow to do it by itself and STILL have enough firepower left for your apps
Nov 06 15:38:22 <johnx> timeless, definitely, I was just thinking that. Nothing like working on projects that never see their intended use
Nov 06 15:38:42 <johnx> RST38h, that's an interesting idea
Nov 06 15:38:48 * timeless considers writing a patch for something
Nov 06 15:39:02 <RST38h> johnx: So, to play stuff via A2DP, you have to first uncompress mp3 (on DSP), then compress result into A2DP format (on the same DSP)
Nov 06 15:39:17 <RST38h> johnx: Ladrman will have more details if you are interested
Nov 06 15:40:15 <GeneralAntilles> We should get the packagerate guy to start hacking on h-a-m
Nov 06 15:40:58 <johnx> RST38h, I know a bit about A2DP. it already works passably on the CPU. mp3 decoding+sbc encoding takes about 20-30% at 400MHz
Nov 06 15:43:45 <RST38h> johnx: this will suck the battery dryg
Nov 06 15:44:29 <RST38h> General: does he have a web site for this package at all?
Nov 06 15:44:54 <johnx> yes. that's why I haven't put much more effort into cleaning up the "enable a2dp" package I made
Nov 06 15:44:56 <RST38h> johnx: And *that* is the problem unfortunately. But lardman has A2DP running on DSP, with some limitations
Nov 06 15:45:18 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, don't think so.
Nov 06 15:45:37 <RST38h> johnx: Maybe you can get in touch with him and see if there are any new and exciting things to do =)
Nov 06 15:46:25 <johnx> working on something else right now. I might get interested again if I get a cheap *comfortable* pair of A2DP headphones
Nov 06 15:47:16 <johnx> but really, the sound quality was getting to me as well, and there's nothing anyone can do about that :/
Nov 06 15:47:43 * Stskeeps ponders idly a vaguely insane thing
Nov 06 15:47:56 <Stskeeps> think qemu-arm system emulation can do second stage debootstrap?
Nov 06 15:48:03 <Stskeeps> er, binary
Nov 06 15:48:49 <johnx> I can't remember if I ever got that working
Nov 06 15:49:12 <johnx> wait, system or user-mode?
Nov 06 15:49:17 <Stskeeps> user-mode
Nov 06 15:49:23 <johnx> that's what I thought
Nov 06 15:49:39 <johnx> might be worth a try if they've improved it in the last 6 months or so
Nov 06 15:49:44 * Stskeeps tries for fun.
Nov 06 15:49:59 <Stskeeps> or nah..
Nov 06 15:50:02 <Stskeeps> rootstrap tar.gz's more fun
Nov 06 15:50:21 <RST38h> johnx: I have got "cheap" and "small" coovered
Nov 06 15:50:51 <johnx> RST38h, now work on "comfort" and "fidelity" and get back to me :D
Nov 06 15:51:19 * aquatix sticks with wired headphones
Nov 06 15:51:34 <RST38h> johnx: Well, fidelity and A2DP are not compatible
Nov 06 15:51:41 <aquatix> is good fidelity even possible on a2dp?
Nov 06 15:51:41 <aquatix> ah
Nov 06 15:51:47 <johnx> right, hence my waning interest :)
Nov 06 15:51:54 <RST38h> johnx: As to comfort, I am pretty sure that the headphones are not to blame in my case
Nov 06 15:52:01 <johnx> Stskeeps, I think the sticking point on chrooting into it was actually compiling a static qemu to use inside the chroot
Nov 06 15:52:07 <RST38h> johnx: The pair I have will fit perfectly well on most people
Nov 06 15:52:36 <RST38h> johnx: bought nameless, for $60, at a random AT&T store stateside
Nov 06 15:52:57 <johnx> mine press my glasses into my head in a most uncomfortable way :/
Nov 06 15:53:56 <aquatix> johnx: mod them onto your glasses?
Nov 06 15:54:36 <johnx> that totally doesn't sound like it will make me look like a complete nerd :P
Nov 06 15:54:50 <RST38h> johnx: exactly my problem
Nov 06 15:57:12 * qwerty12 just has a pair that you shove headphones into :P. Not a headset but at least it can do mp3 decoding on the headset
Nov 06 15:57:22 <Stskeeps> johnx: ah, yeah, that'd be a problem
Nov 06 15:57:32 <aquatix> johnx: ;)
Nov 06 16:16:19 <Stskeeps> jesus, codesourcery toolchain takes ages to dl..
Nov 06 16:20:57 <RST38h> *** Jesus Nickname is already in use.
Nov 06 16:21:04 <RST38h> Sorry, Stskeeps
Nov 06 16:29:43 <Stskeeps> " I feel emotionally attached to Maemo"
Nov 06 16:29:46 <Stskeeps> wtf.
Nov 06 16:30:16 <qwerty12> I feel Maemo.
Nov 06 16:30:24 <Stskeeps> i want that tshirt.
Nov 06 16:31:48 <RST38h> Anonymous Maemo Addicts
Nov 06 16:32:03 <Stskeeps> i use my tablet at night when i wake up and can't fall asleep
Nov 06 16:32:03 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 06 16:32:12 <RST38h> (that is on the back, the front will say "Will Kill For 3D Acceleration")
Nov 06 16:32:13 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, I use it before I go to sleep :/
Nov 06 16:32:14 <Stskeeps> "the first thing i think about when i wake up is where my tablet is."
Nov 06 16:32:28 <Stskeeps> .. which ironically comes after when i look for my pants
Nov 06 16:32:39 <qwerty12> I don't need to because it's next to me when I wake up :p
Nov 06 16:32:46 <Stskeeps> "maemo svn"
Nov 06 16:32:51 <Stskeeps> .. is there a maemo svn?
Nov 06 16:33:16 <Stskeeps> doing this questionare for maemo stuff :P
Nov 06 16:40:00 <RST38h> "I always know, where, when, and what I will be doing with my tablet."
Nov 06 16:40:35 <RST38h> (btw, that is the third stage of alcoholism - the patient  is carefully planning when, where, and with whom he is going to get drunk)
Nov 06 16:40:53 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, what is this?
Nov 06 16:41:19 <vincenzo88> Goodbye everybody
Nov 06 16:41:32 <GeneralAntilles> Goodbye cruel world
Nov 06 16:41:39 <vincenzo88> :P
Nov 06 16:43:14 <GeneralAntilles> Where is X-Fade. . . .
Nov 06 16:44:06 <GeneralAntilles> Well, to the rest of the room: Eero says they're busy with Fremantle stuff, and it's going to take a while to push an updated policy document. So if we've got more changes we want to push, now would be the time to start collecting them.
Nov 06 16:48:14 <qwerty12> off topic, but seeing as we are quiet, anyone know of a good wifi usb dongle that works well in Linux?
Nov 06 16:49:00 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: the questionare on maemo-developers
Nov 06 16:50:02 <Stskeeps> johnx: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/install-MR-sdk (shell script, requires git, sdk, build-essential and other evil things, but does the trick..) in the end, PATH=$HOME/mr-sdk/sb2/bin:$PATH bash, and sb2 away happily
Nov 06 16:50:31 <Stskeeps> some things need to be sb2 -e (emulated) such as apt-get and such, and others are just sb2 dpkg-bulldpackage -rfakeroot -d
Nov 06 16:50:45 <johnx> that is stunningly awesome
Nov 06 16:50:54 <Stskeeps> gets toolchain, compiles qemu, sb2 and sets it all up with a ubuntu rootstrap
Nov 06 16:51:17 <Stskeeps> and even gets the bloody arm architecture (big mistake on mojo's part) right
Nov 06 16:52:00 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i guess it wasn't directly posted to m-d, but to individual posters
Nov 06 16:52:36 <Stskeeps> johnx: the idea is then to have different targets and such, where it sets up ccflags and such correctly eventually
Nov 06 16:53:21 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, the ETH Zürich one?
Nov 06 16:53:23 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: yeah
Nov 06 16:53:35 <qwerty12> cool :)
Nov 06 16:54:05 <Stskeeps> johnx: so you can do for instance sb2 -t mr-n800 dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d, sb -t mr-zaurus, sb -t mr-pandora etc..
Nov 06 16:54:47 <johnx> that would be pretty neat
Nov 06 16:55:02 <Stskeeps> and maybe including emulation aliases that way too
Nov 06 16:55:22 <johnx> I guess the mojo guys just patched their version of gcc to optimize for a certain armvN by default
Nov 06 16:55:39 <Stskeeps> no clue :P
Nov 06 16:56:09 <johnx> well they said they did. :)
Nov 06 16:56:25 <johnx> they *might* have lied of course, if they wanted to trick us :D
Nov 06 16:56:36 <Stskeeps> but being able to build packages fast certainly helps for this feat
Nov 06 16:56:48 <Stskeeps> i'll include the sb2 thing in proposal later
Nov 06 16:57:48 <lardman> a2dp
Nov 06 16:58:01 * lardman was in the lab, catching up on the backlog
Nov 06 16:58:27 <lardman> the problem with a2dp on Linux is to do with a lack of high precision timers, which mean the music can sound odd
Nov 06 16:58:28 <johnx> I don't think anything terribly new was said
Nov 06 16:58:47 <johnx> and yet it seems to do pretty good on the desktop
Nov 06 16:59:01 <lardman> was someone saying that mp3 is decompressed on DSP then compressed to SBC on DSP? this is wrong, but my goal
Nov 06 16:59:28 <lardman> johnx: probably less chance on the desktop of some other thread stopping it from filling the buffer in time?
Nov 06 16:59:37 <johnx> ah, likely
Nov 06 17:01:49 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, yeah, just got it.
Nov 06 17:04:39 <lcuk> lardman, does the mp3 frame have to be decompressed then recompressed as stand alone steps - cant you translate one frame from Filemp3->SBC in one swift hand wave?
Nov 06 17:04:55 <lardman> atm mp3 is decompressed on the ARM
Nov 06 17:05:22 <lardman> I'm trying to get an mp3 dsp decoder working so it can all be handled on the dsp, but have been busy doing other things recently
Nov 06 17:05:40 <lcuk> uh huh, lots of busyness everywhere
Nov 06 17:05:59 <lcuk> its ok i misread up there anyway, you were refering to someone else saying that
Nov 06 17:06:41 <lardman> yeah, I thought someone else did say that that's how it worked
Nov 06 17:07:03 <lardman> <RST38h> johnx: So, to play stuff via A2DP, you have to first uncompress mp3 (on DSP), then compress result into A2DP format (on the same DSP)
Nov 06 17:07:46 <zaltair> hi everybody... i am using mplayer, and i can play XVID/MPEG-4, but performance is very bad... well a resolution is 624x352 and frame rate/sec is 24 and the video is 350Mb/52min ... some help pls
Nov 06 17:08:23 <johnx> what type of codec are you using for sound?
Nov 06 17:08:24 <zaltair> yep  i running mplayer on N800
Nov 06 17:08:38 <l7> hey, did you know mplayer doesn't support processor throttling?
Nov 06 17:09:01 <l7> CPU is always at 400 when it's active, even when paused
Nov 06 17:09:06 <l7> even on powersave mode
Nov 06 17:09:11 <zaltair> johnx: i do not know... how can i find that...
Nov 06 17:09:12 <lardman> l7: interesting
Nov 06 17:09:27 <johnx> zaltair, if you run mplaer from the command line
Nov 06 17:09:31 <zaltair> l7: ouch.. that is bad...
Nov 06 17:09:45 <johnx> s/mplaer/mplayer -v your-file.avi/
Nov 06 17:09:48 <Stskeeps> l7: you should probably watch "stats" instead of current cpu freq
Nov 06 17:09:51 <Stskeeps> gives a better picture
Nov 06 17:10:02 <l7> it also seem that even on powersave mode, doing various things will push your CPU over 165
Nov 06 17:10:16 <l7> Stskeeps: how do i access stats?
Nov 06 17:10:39 <Stskeeps> sec
Nov 06 17:11:02 <l7> CPU speed seems to be at 328 while playing music with canola or osso-media
Nov 06 17:11:08 <derf> l7: ARM and DSP clocks are linked, so that's not surprising.
Nov 06 17:11:09 <l7> regardless of powersave
Nov 06 17:11:16 <l7> hmm
Nov 06 17:11:17 <zaltair> is any quick solution on the web? i haven't time now... i will come later...
Nov 06 17:11:36 <disco_stu> what about playing music with xmms ?
Nov 06 17:11:49 <l7> maybe that's why tapping  causes the CPU to spike to 400
Nov 06 17:11:54 <l7> i haven't tested xmms yet
Nov 06 17:11:55 <derf> I think the DSP is hard-coded to run at full speed when it has active tasks, which means that the ARM will be at 333 MHz.
Nov 06 17:12:01 <lardman> l7: starting a dsp task removes any cpufreq modifiers and sticks the dsp to top speed
Nov 06 17:12:07 <johnx> zaltair, don't use aac audio. make sure you use mp3 audio
Nov 06 17:12:08 <Stskeeps> l7: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state
Nov 06 17:12:10 <lardman> ah, too late :)
Nov 06 17:12:37 <l7> lardman: CPU is only at 328 when using osso though, not 400
Nov 06 17:13:09 <derf> l7: When the DSP is at full speed, the ARM is only at 333 MHz.
Nov 06 17:13:26 <derf> When the ARM is at 400 MHz, the DSP actually gets clocked down.
Nov 06 17:13:30 <zaltair> ok ... bye...
Nov 06 17:14:55 <Jaffa> Filling in this survey: (another) N810 or Freerunner?
Nov 06 17:15:42 <Stskeeps> i wasn't terribly impressed by the freerunner
Nov 06 17:15:47 <Stskeeps> i would rather want a n810 :P
Nov 06 17:15:56 <GeneralAntilles> I went for the N810.
Nov 06 17:16:02 <RST38h> Jaffa: N810!
Nov 06 17:16:37 <l7> derf: oh right
Nov 06 17:17:03 <l7> can i rest time_in_state without a reboot?
Nov 06 17:17:17 <l7> s/rest/reset/
Nov 06 17:17:19 <infobot> l7 meant: can i reset time_in_state without a reboot?
Nov 06 17:17:42 <Jaffa> N810 for the boy, then :)
Nov 06 17:17:47 <Jaffa> Got a nice Sony Ericsson phone
Nov 06 17:18:13 <l7> what is the best deal for n810s these days?
Nov 06 17:18:28 <l7> this tablet would be so much handier with a keyboard
Nov 06 17:18:34 <Stskeeps> if i get a n810 my n800 would get passed down to my gf ;>
Nov 06 17:18:57 <l7> lol, i'd keep my 800 for storage
Nov 06 17:19:28 <Stskeeps> though i'm not convinced since i've gotten her started on a pocket pc now, which fits her purposes
Nov 06 17:19:32 <l7> the n810 needs a SD slot badly
Nov 06 17:20:00 <Stskeeps> true, i do love my two sd slots
Nov 06 17:20:01 <l7> or microSD failing that
Nov 06 17:21:04 <l7> micro to mini SD conversion just seems like a PAIN
Nov 06 17:21:28 <l7> UGH, CAPS IS STUCK ON MY STOWAWAY KEYBOARD
Nov 06 17:21:30 <RST38h> but you only do it once
Nov 06 17:22:30 <l7> okay unstuck with a reconnect
Nov 06 17:22:47 <l7> it's mislabeled
Nov 06 17:23:24 <l7> oh by the way, does mplayer use the DSP properly?
Nov 06 17:23:42 <l7> because if it cycles the cpu to 400, it's slowing down the DSP
Nov 06 17:24:05 <l7> i wonder if it's a recognized bug yet
Nov 06 17:25:43 <lardman> it can't be using the dsp in that case
Nov 06 17:25:58 <lardman> unless you've patched the kernel dvfs
Nov 06 17:26:10 <l7> i haven't
Nov 06 17:26:13 <l7> does that mean it uses more power?
Nov 06 17:26:20 <lardman> no idea
Nov 06 17:26:30 <l7> hmm
Nov 06 17:26:41 <lardman> actually the dsp should be able to decode mp3 @22MHz (i.e. ARM at 400MHz)
Nov 06 17:26:50 <lardman> s/22/220
Nov 06 17:27:41 <lardman> cu later chaps
Nov 06 17:29:45 <GeneralAntilles> With mplayer, you're better off with 400MHz and no DSP.
Nov 06 17:29:56 <GeneralAntilles> Serge knows what he's doing, l7. :)
Nov 06 17:32:24 <suihkulokki> re: survey - do we really have 4 different accounts on maemo.org ?
Nov 06 17:33:48 <GeneralAntilles> suihkulokki, wiki and Garage are the same.
Nov 06 17:33:55 <GeneralAntilles> Bugzilla is separate.
Nov 06 17:34:55 * qwerty12 reformats my Intrepid partition and downgrades to Hardy
Nov 06 17:39:59 * Proteous reformats his occipital lobe and downgrades to brainstem
Nov 06 17:40:44 <Stskeeps> what's maemo SVN anyway? :P stage?
Nov 06 17:42:07 <qwerty12> I guess for the stuff that is made public... mce is on garage so I would presume it uses the svn services of garage and maybe on some internal nokia links?
Nov 06 17:42:48 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 06 17:45:12 <RST38h> qwerty: Wha't wrong with Ibex?
Nov 06 17:45:28 <Proteous> Ibex ate all the marshmellows, I had to shoot him
Nov 06 17:45:29 <Proteous> sorry
Nov 06 17:48:15 <qwerty12> RST38h, It won't read my sysctl.conf on each boot like Hardy did (although that is lazyness on my part as it wouldn't take long to write a quick script that init runs) but the showstopper for me is ndiswrapper is even more retarded for me. After a while in Hardy, I continually lose connection and NM doesn't make it easy for me to connect in the first place. I uninstalled networkmanager and wrote (correct) settings in /etc/network/interf
Nov 06 17:48:15 <qwerty12> aces for manually connecting and I still can't get a connection. So I'm saying fuck it and going back to what works for me.
Nov 06 17:49:03 <GNUton> Hi there
Nov 06 17:49:39 <RST38h> you need a ndiswrapper? evil.
Nov 06 17:50:35 <qwerty12> yep :P.I'm being a tramp by not buying a nice linux supported wifi dongle but this one works really well for me in windows, so *shrug*
Nov 06 17:51:28 <l7> GeneralAntilles: heh okay, i'll take your word for it
Nov 06 17:51:49 <l7> now to see if there's any other programs wasting my batteries
Nov 06 17:52:05 <l7> is time_in_state measured in milliseconds?
Nov 06 17:53:41 <l7> actually it looks like 100ths of a second maybe
Nov 06 17:54:24 <RST38h> why no real driver?
Nov 06 17:55:05 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: btw xserver-xorg-video-omapfb, - control mentions the nvidia driver? :P
Nov 06 17:55:14 <Stskeeps> l7: ticks maybe
Nov 06 17:56:04 <qwerty12> RST38h, The one supporting the chipset in my wifi dongle doesn't actually support the actual dongle itself. No idea what's up with that :P. I'm starting to take quite a liking to FreeBSD out of curiosity now so I may end up plugging my computer directly into the router by ethernet :P
Nov 06 17:59:29 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: guess what I used as a template? :)
Nov 06 18:00:20 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: hehe ;)
Nov 06 18:02:31 * Stskeeps continues trying to get the how and why of sb2
Nov 06 18:04:57 <RST38h> Sts: btw current version has some problems on Ibex
Nov 06 18:05:10 <RST38h> It will not see /media/* stuff from inside sb2
Nov 06 18:05:22 <Stskeeps> RST38h: k - not on ibex (yet) though
Nov 06 18:14:03 <disco_stu> people
Nov 06 18:14:28 <disco_stu> i'm about to flash the tablet
Nov 06 18:14:42 <disco_stu> i have to grab the flasher only
Nov 06 18:27:49 <disco_stu> stupid battery isnt full
Nov 06 18:33:27 <l7> is it that important for the battery to be full?
Nov 06 18:33:45 <disco_stu> dunno.. the wiki says so
Nov 06 18:33:58 <timeless> if you're flashing your device and there isn't enough charge, you could brick it
Nov 06 18:34:31 <l7> i've flashed at 50 to 60 before with no issues
Nov 06 18:34:39 <timeless> if you're trying to run off a/c (don't), you could accidentally lose power (trip over cable) or lose it because of a power failure, which could lead to a bricked device
Nov 06 18:34:48 <RST38h> that is because your battery has been full enough
Nov 06 18:34:49 <disco_stu> but for 30secs of flashing no much battery is needed i think
Nov 06 18:34:54 <l7> hmm
Nov 06 18:35:04 <l7> yeah
Nov 06 18:35:17 <timeless> remember: if the docs say to have your device charged, and you don't follow them, nokia care is under little obligation to fix your device when you call crying that you bricked it against the instructions
Nov 06 18:35:32 <RST38h> but of course you are welcome to experiment by cutting power supply while flashing
Nov 06 18:35:40 <timeless> when playing russian roulette w/ a gun, you might be able to aim the gun at your head 5 times
Nov 06 18:35:50 <timeless> if you happen to spin the chamber, you might get even more shots
Nov 06 18:35:55 <timeless> but you might also die.
Nov 06 18:36:05 <timeless> why play russian roulette if you don't need to?
Nov 06 18:36:25 <disco_stu> for fun
Nov 06 18:36:27 <disco_stu> lol
Nov 06 18:36:52 <disco_stu> if i turn on the tablet is says battery full, if i turn it off it starts charging
Nov 06 18:36:54 <disco_stu> :S
Nov 06 18:37:30 <disco_stu> that is stupid
Nov 06 18:38:01 <disco_stu> infobot: what do you think about ?
Nov 06 18:38:31 * disco_stu thinks bot is crap
Nov 06 18:39:02 <disco_stu> now is full
Nov 06 18:39:04 <disco_stu> yeea
Nov 06 18:39:28 <disco_stu> i dont want to reinstall everything
Nov 06 18:39:44 <disco_stu> but guess improvements are worth
Nov 06 18:43:28 <l7> well i'm not about to experiment by cutting power during a reflash, that is absurd
Nov 06 18:43:42 <l7> but i do think the docs are overly conservative
Nov 06 18:43:51 <timeless> http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/153/
Nov 06 18:44:00 <timeless> i'll polish that later
Nov 06 18:44:06 <timeless> please don't circulate it too widely
Nov 06 18:44:12 <timeless> it needs art, more words, etc.
Nov 06 18:44:26 <l7> if you know what you're doing, you know how much power is required and how much of a charge your battery has, you should be able to flash at less than full charge with no issues
Nov 06 18:44:30 <disco_stu> i ended flashinh
Nov 06 18:44:33 <timeless> and yes, i know 147 is the latest one i've published
Nov 06 18:44:34 <disco_stu> flashing :)
Nov 06 18:44:41 <GeneralAntilles> Does Nokia happen to have any file-footage on hand of a char-broiled N810? ;)
Nov 06 18:44:45 <timeless> 148..152 (-150) are in need of reviews
Nov 06 18:44:46 <l7> i'd rather have the knowledge, that's the point of playing with linux
Nov 06 18:45:00 <timeless> GAN: heh, i think we have some devices that don't boot
Nov 06 18:45:04 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: i flashed to diable
Nov 06 18:45:07 <timeless> i'm not quite sure i want to bother video'ing them
Nov 06 18:45:19 <timeless> anyway, night
Nov 06 18:45:30 <timeless> darn, i missed my movie
Nov 06 18:45:54 <timeless> is max payne any good?
Nov 06 18:46:05 <GeneralAntilles> Haven't gotten around to seeing it yet
Nov 06 18:46:05 * timeless decides to aim for it
Nov 06 18:46:10 <GeneralAntilles> My suspicion is that I'm going to hate it
Nov 06 18:46:15 <GeneralAntilles> since I absolutely love the game.
Nov 06 18:47:13 <l7> anyway, if you brick the device, you should be able to just flash it again shouldn't you?
Nov 06 18:47:27 <GeneralAntilles> Wrong definition of brick
Nov 06 18:47:35 <Grackle> Hey, it's not a Uwe Boll production, it might have a chance.
Nov 06 18:47:41 <GeneralAntilles> If you screw up NOLO, then you wont be able to flash it again.
Nov 06 18:47:49 <GeneralAntilles> That said, flashing occurs at about 5MB/sec
Nov 06 18:47:50 <l7> NOLO?
Nov 06 18:47:54 <GeneralAntilles> and NOLO is about 9KB in total
Nov 06 18:48:00 <GeneralAntilles> NOkia LOader
Nov 06 18:48:03 <GeneralAntilles> The bootloader
Nov 06 18:48:12 <GeneralAntilles> The software that actually handles the flashing procedure device-side.
Nov 06 18:48:42 <l7> ah, so that specific part of the nokia software, the loader is critical
Nov 06 18:49:07 <GeneralAntilles> So it's about a 2ms window you have to irreversibly screw up your device.
Nov 06 18:49:17 <timeless> any window is still a window
Nov 06 18:49:21 <timeless> someone will manage to find it
Nov 06 18:49:32 <timeless> the more chances you take the better the odds that the someone is you
Nov 06 18:49:39 <l7> what can you do to fix the tablet if you do somehow screw up NOLO?
Nov 06 18:49:46 <timeless> buy a new one
Nov 06 18:50:11 <qwerty12_N800> It's probably easier messing up the tablet when it is actually booted.
Nov 06 18:50:22 <l7> strange that there's no recovery mode for the tablet
Nov 06 18:50:34 <GeneralAntilles> l7, build a serial cable to cold flash.
Nov 06 18:50:35 <timeless> l7: imagine performing brain surgery
Nov 06 18:50:36 <qwerty12_N800> than compared to flashing that is
Nov 06 18:50:45 <timeless> some things are safer than others
Nov 06 18:50:51 <GeneralAntilles> l7, there is, it's just not recoverable over USB.
Nov 06 18:50:58 <timeless> but if you manage to tick the right part (brain stem), you have a braindead being
Nov 06 18:51:09 <l7> anyway, so after that 2ms window, if you tablet loses power during the flash, you can just reflash the tablet?
Nov 06 18:51:17 <l7> s/you/your/
Nov 06 18:51:18 <infobot> l7 meant: anyway, so after that 2ms window, if your tablet loses power during the flash, you can just reflash the tablet?
Nov 06 18:51:25 <timeless> l7: if you can figure out where that window is
Nov 06 18:51:31 <GeneralAntilles> With some parts and some small familiarity with electronics, cold flashing isn't particularly difficult.
Nov 06 18:51:44 <timeless> plus you're assuming that usb is doing 5MB/s
Nov 06 18:51:52 <GeneralAntilles> NOLO is flashed first
Nov 06 18:51:54 <timeless> if you're stupid and use a usb1 jack (which i believe works)
Nov 06 18:52:03 <timeless> then you're probably not getting 5MB/s
Nov 06 18:52:31 <l7> timeless: you're really being excessive about this
Nov 06 18:52:44 <l7> assuming the user is a moron
Nov 06 18:52:49 <GeneralAntilles> Better to be excessive and not have people come crying about bricked devices. ;)
Nov 06 18:52:50 <timeless> l7: i've met enough users
Nov 06 18:52:54 <GeneralAntilles> Users _are_ morons.
Nov 06 18:53:02 <l7> timeless: do you work for nokia or something?
Nov 06 18:53:08 <timeless> i happen to
Nov 06 18:53:18 <timeless> but my opinion predates my existing employment contract
Nov 06 18:53:33 <timeless> and my opinion isn't official policy
Nov 06 18:53:38 <disco_stu> i see no difference between chinook and diablo
Nov 06 18:53:41 <lcuk> but working for nokia has nothing to do with common sense and following instructions when required
Nov 06 18:53:43 <timeless> but if you do something that voids the warrantee
Nov 06 18:53:47 <disco_stu> and im missing the whole apps i had installed
Nov 06 18:53:49 <disco_stu> dammit !!!
Nov 06 18:54:01 <l7> timeless: what do you do at nokia?
Nov 06 18:54:02 <timeless> then you can't really expect the vendor to do much when you break it
Nov 06 18:54:11 <timeless> l7: that's not particularly relevant here
Nov 06 18:54:13 <RST38h> disco <-- another example of moron user =)
Nov 06 18:54:14 <timeless> i don't work on hardware
Nov 06 18:54:17 <l7> heh
Nov 06 18:54:21 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, install all the SSU updates then try the browser.
Nov 06 18:54:24 <lcuk> hiya timeless, gen, rst etc
Nov 06 18:54:29 <timeless> hi lcuk
Nov 06 18:54:46 <timeless> anyway, there's a movie i want to watch
Nov 06 18:54:51 * lcuk hopes for a less stressfull night
Nov 06 18:54:59 * timeless has already missed a few movies tonight
Nov 06 18:55:06 <l7> anyway, my point is that it's helpful to know the details of such instructions about flashing
Nov 06 18:55:13 <RST38h> lcuk: less stressful than what?
Nov 06 18:55:17 <timeless> l7: i doubt it
Nov 06 18:55:19 <disco_stu> timeless what time is there ?
Nov 06 18:55:29 <l7> rather than being issued a vague warning that you must always do what the instructions say without doing why
Nov 06 18:55:31 <timeless> do instructions on how to use a gun prevent people from killing themselves?
Nov 06 18:55:44 <l7> your gun analogy is erroneous
Nov 06 18:55:47 <lcuk> rst, had a meh! kind of night last night with loads of things rolling around my head
Nov 06 18:55:48 <timeless> http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/10/27/boy_8_dies_after_accidental_shooting_at_gun_club/
Nov 06 18:56:07 <timeless> it's 4'till 9p
Nov 06 18:56:15 <timeless> movie is 9:15p i hope
Nov 06 18:56:17 <l7> if i wanted to be kept in the dark and told nothing about how the device works, i'd buy an iphone
Nov 06 18:56:21 <timeless> it's a 15min run
Nov 06 18:56:30 <timeless> the iphone has the same warning
Nov 06 18:56:33 <timeless> thanks :)
Nov 06 18:56:36 <timeless> (so does the ipod)
Nov 06 18:56:40 <RST38h> lcuk: you should lose yourself in prayer to the Green One - it will improve your concentration and bloodlust! =)
Nov 06 18:56:43 <lcuk> timeless, what are you goin watching?
Nov 06 18:56:48 <timeless> max payne
Nov 06 18:56:50 <lcuk> green one?
Nov 06 18:56:55 <l7> i have an ipod, there's no such warning about flashing actually
Nov 06 18:56:58 <lcuk> ahhh cool
Nov 06 18:57:23 <RST38h> lcuk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu
Nov 06 18:57:24 <lcuk> l7, the logo on the screen that says "do not unplug or turn off whilst updating" isnt there is it not?
Nov 06 18:57:28 <lcuk> it certainly is on the ipod
Nov 06 18:57:31 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: says no updates are available
Nov 06 18:57:40 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, oh, right.
Nov 06 18:57:45 <GeneralAntilles> They finally released 36-5
Nov 06 18:57:53 <l7> lcuk: it doesn't say anything about charging the battery to full before flashing though
Nov 06 18:57:57 <GeneralAntilles> You're seriously telling me you don't notice a difference between Chinook and Diablo, though?
Nov 06 18:58:00 <GeneralAntilles> Application Manager is way better
Nov 06 18:58:05 <GeneralAntilles> the browser is way better
Nov 06 18:58:10 <GeneralAntilles> Modest is the default email client now
Nov 06 18:58:14 <disco_stu> yes that is the one i flashed
Nov 06 18:58:21 <l7> this is a stupid argument anyway
Nov 06 18:58:25 <GeneralAntilles> l7, because it charges over USB
Nov 06 18:58:33 <disco_stu> what repos should i use ?
Nov 06 18:58:48 <GeneralAntilles> ~extras
Nov 06 18:58:49 <infobot> [extras] http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras
Nov 06 18:58:51 <disco_stu> oh extras is disabled
Nov 06 18:59:30 <disco_stu> i'll remove stupid content now
Nov 06 18:59:56 * RST38h has got a teleconference in 15 minutes
Nov 06 19:01:09 * GeneralAntilles fiddles with RST38h's router.
Nov 06 19:01:20 <lcuk> get a room!
Nov 06 19:01:23 <RST38h> Router? What router? I am using plain old landline.
Nov 06 19:02:18 <RST38h> Go fiddle with that, if giant carnivorous albino rats don't get you first =)
Nov 06 19:03:32 * lcuk sends RST38h a captain crunch whistle
Nov 06 19:04:26 <RST38h> Prolly won't work here, with most pbxes still using pulse by d
Nov 06 19:04:31 <RST38h> efault
Nov 06 19:07:11 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: you're right app manager is very nice now
Nov 06 19:09:10 <GeneralAntilles> ;)
Nov 06 19:14:52 <l7> what's new in app manager in diablo?
Nov 06 19:15:26 <disco_stu> it is improved
Nov 06 19:15:37 <disco_stu> in speed mostly
Nov 06 19:15:41 <qwerty12_N800> fixes, speed improvments, long version numbers don't mess up the display of apps
Nov 06 19:16:29 <l7> hmm
Nov 06 19:16:34 <l7> any new features?
Nov 06 19:16:40 <disco_stu> where the hell is osso-xterm
Nov 06 19:17:05 <qwerty12_N800> same place it always is on a new flash
Nov 06 19:17:44 <l7> i always move it to my selections
Nov 06 19:17:44 <disco_stu> right
Nov 06 19:18:06 <l7> god knows why it's buried in utilities or whereever
Nov 06 19:18:18 <GeneralAntilles> l7, stability, speed, small usability improvements all over.
Nov 06 19:18:50 <l7> refinement is good
Nov 06 19:19:12 <l7> i was wondering if the search or log features were new since i rarely use them
Nov 06 19:19:25 <disco_stu> no
Nov 06 19:19:55 <l7> i didn't use app mamanger for several months before switching to diablo
Nov 06 19:19:56 <mgedmin> search?
Nov 06 19:20:00 <mgedmin> app manager has search?
Nov 06 19:20:06 <l7> yeah
Nov 06 19:20:10 <mgedmin> 8-)
Nov 06 19:20:14 <disco_stu> for browsing i use links2 so i dont care about the speed improvements of microb
Nov 06 19:20:15 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Nov 06 19:20:23 <GeneralAntilles> It's not all that useful, unfortunately.
Nov 06 19:20:31 <l7> kinda iffy since it's hard to know what you wna to search for
Nov 06 19:20:42 <mgedmin> xchat ;
Nov 06 19:20:44 <disco_stu> apt-cache search
Nov 06 19:20:49 <mgedmin> bye all!
Nov 06 19:20:51 <disco_stu> is better for pkg search
Nov 06 19:20:58 <l7> arer the maemo repo categories ever going to be cleaned up by the way?
Nov 06 19:21:31 <GeneralAntilles> l7, http://maemo.org/community/council/view/1225812124/ http://communitizer.blogspot.com/2008/11/packaging-policy-change-proposal.html
Nov 06 19:21:34 <l7> i always click on All and then just browse the huge list
Nov 06 19:22:00 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: are you half a bot ?
Nov 06 19:22:12 <l7> heh
Nov 06 19:22:41 <disco_stu> is awesome hoy the guy answers immediatly with concise and concrete info
Nov 06 19:22:59 <disco_stu> good work man
Nov 06 19:23:14 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, nah, I just happened to have been actively pushing the new categories for the past few weeks. ;)
Nov 06 19:23:21 <GeneralAntilles> The first link there is mine. :)
Nov 06 19:23:28 <disco_stu> lol
Nov 06 19:23:52 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles is not half bot, in 5 years he becomes skynet
Nov 06 19:24:08 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk's the one I'm going to terminate.
Nov 06 19:24:31 <lcuk> :O
Nov 06 19:24:33 <qwerty12_N800> We want liqbase!
Nov 06 19:24:45 <l7> ah that blogspot post is interesting
Nov 06 19:24:47 <lcuk> all your liqbase are belong to you :)
Nov 06 19:24:58 <GeneralAntilles> Terminator: lcuk's Mom's Chronicles
Nov 06 19:25:44 <lcuk> too' many' quotes' i think' and mom is misspelt
Nov 06 19:25:48 <lcuk> hiya qwerty12_N800
Nov 06 19:25:56 <qwerty12_N800> hey lcuk
Nov 06 19:26:21 <GeneralAntilles> There are no "Mums" in the US. :P
Nov 06 19:26:37 * qwerty12_N800 finds saying Mum embarrassing :p
Nov 06 19:27:05 <disco_stu> go say milf then
Nov 06 19:27:07 * lcuk got called "uncle daddy" the other night by jacob
Nov 06 19:27:32 <qwerty12_N800> actually, me & friends downloaded contacts of a classmate and lol'ed when we found "mummy"
Nov 06 19:27:45 <qwerty12_N800> disco_stu, nah :p
Nov 06 19:28:26 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, I called my father by his first name for about 3 years when I was really young.
Nov 06 19:28:52 <lcuk> actually jake called me gary for ages - i always thought of maggy simpson
Nov 06 19:29:51 <lcuk> the uncle daddy one was cute though (neice was there and she is "uncle gary" n "auntie tracy" n stuff
Nov 06 19:30:06 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Nov 06 19:30:13 <GeneralAntilles> How old is he?
Nov 06 19:30:51 <lcuk> hes 6, but is a bit behind on his peers
Nov 06 19:31:10 <lcuk> complete opposite to luke, who was walking and talkin before he was 1
Nov 06 19:31:52 <lcuk> mind you, jake has major setback right at the start of school - broke one leg and was laid up for ages, then a week after getting the plaster off broke the other one :S
Nov 06 19:32:07 <Grackle> Wow, what happened? o.o
Nov 06 19:32:11 <GeneralAntilles> Seriously
Nov 06 19:32:15 <GeneralAntilles> How do you break your leg at 6?
Nov 06 19:32:18 <lcuk> yeah, we still have the casts
Nov 06 19:32:24 <lcuk> he was much younger
Nov 06 19:32:41 <lcuk> was just walking home and collapsed under him
Nov 06 19:32:52 <lcuk> hes a delicate little flower :)
Nov 06 19:33:55 <GeneralAntilles> Ouch
Nov 06 19:33:59 * GeneralAntilles has yet to break a bone.
Nov 06 19:34:11 <lcuk> same here - though i have dislocated my hip
Nov 06 19:34:20 <lcuk> i woke up one morning and my foot was pointing the wrong way
Nov 06 19:34:53 * qwerty12_N800 was just unlucky then, i had an operation as soon as i was born :p
Nov 06 19:35:09 <disco_stu> lcuk: i think you dream being a power ranger
Nov 06 19:35:11 <lcuk> what for?
Nov 06 19:35:29 <lcuk> heh disco_stu i think i got tied up inside my duvet and turned over
Nov 06 19:35:37 <disco_stu> lol
Nov 06 19:35:48 <disco_stu> no megazord that time
Nov 06 19:35:53 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, club foot. now i look like a tosser each time i walk :p
Nov 06 19:36:44 <lcuk> but can you wear normal shoes?
Nov 06 19:36:55 <disco_stu> diablo changed the name of the stock wallpapers
Nov 06 19:37:08 <disco_stu> thats not polite
Nov 06 19:37:20 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, yeah, i'm lucky in that regard :)
Nov 06 19:37:24 <lcuk> makes you look around the system and reinvestiage things
Nov 06 19:38:00 <lcuk> yeah qwerty, every time you tihnk you are odd just smile and think how it wouldv been without the surgery
Nov 06 19:38:01 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: i have a doubt
Nov 06 19:38:28 <qwerty12_N800> :)
Nov 06 19:38:29 <lcuk> mind you, you wouldv won every wrestling match "faheem and the flighting clubfoot"
Nov 06 19:38:32 <disco_stu> to enter maemo council one needs to speak fluid Klingon ?
Nov 06 19:38:40 <lcuk> "omg hes taken him down with the cheezehit"
Nov 06 19:38:42 <qwerty12_N800> hehe :P
Nov 06 19:40:56 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, nah, you just gotta whore yourself all over the neighborhood.
Nov 06 19:42:34 <disco_stu> lol
Nov 06 19:44:21 <lcuk> i need to get myself a large format tablet
Nov 06 19:44:52 <disco_stu> heyyyyy
Nov 06 19:44:57 <disco_stu> i found something new
Nov 06 19:45:07 <disco_stu> dunno if it was in chinook
Nov 06 19:45:21 <disco_stu> the keyboard understands gestures
Nov 06 19:46:17 <disco_stu> nobody ?
Nov 06 19:47:02 <lcuk> im waiting for you to explain, i did look at my n810 keyboard and wonder how it would work
Nov 06 19:47:14 <disco_stu> on screen keyboard
Nov 06 19:47:20 <disco_stu> i was using xterm
Nov 06 19:47:30 <qwerty12_N800> it was in chinook afaik. input method  was updated but biggest difference from chinook was that it can now tell if you tapped an input field with a finger or stylus.
Nov 06 19:47:41 <disco_stu> no no
Nov 06 19:47:46 <disco_stu> not that
Nov 06 19:47:51 <disco_stu> you tap on a letter
Nov 06 19:48:13 <qwerty12_N800> in chinook.
Nov 06 19:48:17 <disco_stu> and without untaping
Nov 06 19:48:25 <disco_stu> you move to the right
Nov 06 19:48:29 <disco_stu> or left
Nov 06 19:48:38 <qwerty12_N800> letter down sends a return etc
Nov 06 19:48:46 <disco_stu> yes
Nov 06 19:49:06 <disco_stu> up does shift
Nov 06 19:49:12 <disco_stu> like with xvkbd
Nov 06 19:50:03 <qwerty12_N800> the letter down one annoys me actually. /me should set up an sbox again soon and recompile the him with that gesture removed.
Nov 06 19:50:33 <disco_stu> handwriting is improved also
Nov 06 19:50:48 * lcuk could not configure handwriting properly
Nov 06 19:52:29 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, gestures have been there since OS2005
Nov 06 19:52:37 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N800, that was just fixing a regression from Bora. ;)
Nov 06 19:53:17 <disco_stu> gpe calendar is missing
Nov 06 19:55:18 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: wich is the best solution to achieve root acces in the nit ?
Nov 06 19:55:30 <GeneralAntilles> ~root-access
Nov 06 19:55:30 <infobot> methinks root-access is http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access
Nov 06 19:55:32 <disco_stu> in chinook i modified sudoers file
Nov 06 19:55:35 <GeneralAntilles> rootsh is what I like
Nov 06 19:55:47 <GeneralAntilles> Install sudser from Extras if you want to use sudo.
Nov 06 19:57:59 <disco_stu> i see the app manager being slower to start downloading new pkgs
Nov 06 19:58:22 <lcuk> might just be right now, you could have net slowdown
Nov 06 19:58:29 <disco_stu> no i dont
Nov 06 19:58:38 <disco_stu> im looking at my router
Nov 06 19:58:45 <lcuk> what about their router?
Nov 06 19:59:12 <disco_stu> they are suppose to have a huge conection
Nov 06 19:59:14 <disco_stu> .D
Nov 06 19:59:15 <disco_stu> :D
Nov 06 19:59:38 <disco_stu> damn i have to go to college in half an hour
Nov 06 19:59:40 <lcuk> yes, and i was supposed to have a flying car by now
Nov 06 20:00:13 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, i've had to delay your order :(
Nov 06 20:00:19 <disco_stu> lcuk: are you up to fluber either ?
Nov 06 20:00:28 <lcuk> shucks!
Nov 06 20:00:51 <lcuk> fluber?
Nov 06 20:01:10 <disco_stu> you know
Nov 06 20:01:28 <disco_stu> the greenish thing that bounces
Nov 06 20:02:07 <lcuk> ohhh flubber, i read it like foo bar
Nov 06 20:02:40 <lcuk> no, ive got a plastic bag and some pieces of cotton
Nov 06 20:03:01 <disco_stu> are you planning a kidnap or something ?
Nov 06 20:03:02 <lcuk> though last time i tried it, something went wrong and I plumetted down the stairs
Nov 06 20:03:53 <disco_stu> i dont like the stupid analog clock
Nov 06 20:04:00 <lcuk> then click it and change it
Nov 06 20:04:09 * lcuk has written a new clock
Nov 06 20:04:38 <qwerty12_N800> with time machine functionality?
Nov 06 20:04:57 <RST38h> will it downgrade to chinook too?
Nov 06 20:05:08 <disco_stu> with a flux cappacitor ?
Nov 06 20:06:57 <lcuk> qwerty, no i had to remove that part, the flux capacitor caused too much battery drain
Nov 06 20:07:14 <lcuk> RST38h, downgrade? i believe most of liqbase is version agnostic
Nov 06 20:07:27 <qwerty12_N800> :(
Nov 06 20:08:03 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, you can change the clock in Clock
Nov 06 20:08:32 <lcuk> click the clock
Nov 06 20:08:41 <disco_stu> thanks
Nov 06 20:09:01 <disco_stu> im missing ettercap now
Nov 06 20:09:12 <disco_stu> with that i'll be ready to go
Nov 06 20:09:36 <RST38h> lcuk: Not the liqbase, the time machine!
Nov 06 20:10:07 <lcuk> no, the time machine only operates in the present
Nov 06 20:10:23 <lcuk> and only when you have a gps lock
Nov 06 20:10:33 <lcuk> hence, ive not managed to test it yet
Nov 06 20:11:30 <qwerty12_N800> ? I heard the gps in the N810 is military standard.
Nov 06 20:12:37 <lcuk> i jest, its actually been quite reliable most days ive used it
Nov 06 20:12:55 <lcuk> though we did get to our destination before it locked one ady
Nov 06 20:13:15 <qwerty12_N800> :p. I'd never buy a N810 personally for the gps
Nov 06 20:13:25 <RST38h> gps isn't a person
Nov 06 20:13:33 <RST38h> ;)
Nov 06 20:13:49 <lcuk> then who tells me to take the 3rd exit at the turning circle?
Nov 06 20:14:03 <lcuk> and to turn round cos i dont know where the feck im going
Nov 06 20:14:20 <disco_stu> lcuk: your GF ?
Nov 06 20:14:22 <disco_stu> mine does..
Nov 06 20:14:28 <RST38h> The Electric Woman treacherously confined to the little plastic box by evil Chinese
Nov 06 20:14:28 <disco_stu> yelling ..
Nov 06 20:14:50 <lcuk> tracytracy has been a very reliable map reader for a long time
Nov 06 20:15:26 <lcuk> disco_stu, doesnt she have a mute button
Nov 06 20:15:44 <RST38h> btw, DOW is -427 tonight
Nov 06 20:16:00 <RST38h> lcuk: does yours have a mute button?
Nov 06 20:16:26 * Stskeeps ponders idly why there is political stuff on planet maemo
Nov 06 20:16:27 <disco_stu> lcuk: yes but is hard to find
Nov 06 20:16:32 <Stskeeps> (not that i dont agree but still..)
Nov 06 20:16:47 <lcuk> yes, i just have to insert the smart card into her purse and she shuts up ;)
Nov 06 20:17:15 <disco_stu> lcuk: thats one of the ways
Nov 06 20:17:17 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, because we haven't thumbed it into the ground enough yet.
Nov 06 20:17:25 <GeneralAntilles> and thoughtfix wonders why he gets negative karma. . . .
Nov 06 20:17:46 <disco_stu> well fellows
Nov 06 20:17:50 <disco_stu> see you tonight
Nov 06 20:18:06 <disco_stu> thanks for your valuable help and company
Nov 06 20:18:11 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, you should write an expose for those poor Electric Women.
Nov 06 20:18:36 <lcuk> disco_stu, my invoice is in the post
Nov 06 20:18:45 <GeneralAntilles> $999 USD
Nov 06 20:18:54 <lcuk> per comment
Nov 06 20:19:11 <lcuk> might make you a couple of € gen ;)
Nov 06 20:19:20 <GeneralAntilles> All sales are final, workmanship is not guaranteed and additional support costs $9.99 per minute.
Nov 06 20:19:58 <lcuk> right im off
Nov 06 20:19:58 <qwerty12_N800> Where do I order?!?
Nov 06 20:20:47 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N800 would make the perfect infommercial actor.
Nov 06 20:21:10 <qwerty12_N800> hah :P
Nov 06 20:21:14 <RST38h> General: Only when I manage to get the photos!
Nov 06 20:21:28 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Nov 06 20:21:43 <GeneralAntilles> It has the feel of an Onion article
Nov 06 20:23:01 <RST38h> Onion is the last reliable news source out there
Nov 06 20:23:29 <RST38h> except that sometimes it reports on the future events.
Nov 06 20:23:49 * qwerty12_N800 read it as least but then realised it really was last
Nov 06 20:24:14 <GeneralAntilles> Well, that too. ;)
Nov 06 20:26:39 <GeneralAntilles> Started working on this if somebody wants to jump in: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints
Nov 06 20:29:14 <RST38h> SCRUM refers to software development process. Sprint meetings are mainly policy-related afaik
Nov 06 20:29:28 <RST38h> Not sure if it applies
Nov 06 20:29:38 <GeneralAntilles> Wiki doesn't really think so: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCRUM
Nov 06 20:32:18 <RST38h> Scrum is an iterative incremental process of software development
Nov 06 20:32:26 <RST38h> first sentence on that page
Nov 06 20:32:54 <GeneralAntilles> Is exactly what we're doing, yes.
Nov 06 20:32:59 <RST38h> mm...ok
Nov 06 20:59:52 <RST38h> BTW, gentlemen, any news on qalculator for Maemo? Qwerty?
Nov 06 21:01:31 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, waited ages for it to compile and watched it segfault upon startup :p. That was gtk version though, I never tried the qt version.
Nov 06 21:01:54 <RST38h> well, gtk will be more useful at the moment
Nov 06 21:09:46 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: ts_read gives sensible coordinates, but in X the values seem to grow rapidly out of screen
Nov 06 21:19:02 <StsN800> suihkulokki, use calibration values from xomap?
Nov 06 21:19:17 <StsN800> pointercal that is
Nov 06 21:23:43 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody want to remind me of the default application menu folders?
Nov 06 21:25:33 <suihkulokki> StsN800: I am
Nov 06 21:27:08 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: My selection, Internet, Communication, Utilities, Settings, Extras
Nov 06 21:27:17 * Jaffa now leaves work. Only 21:30.
Nov 06 21:27:19 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks
Nov 06 21:29:09 <StsN800> suihkulokki, hm, weird. ts_cal with fb update mode auto maybe
Nov 06 21:32:40 <qwerty12_N800> GeneralAntilles, You forgot the xterm! It's the best way of launching apps :p
Nov 06 21:33:03 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N800, feel free to elaborate if the mood catches you. ;)
Nov 06 21:33:43 <qwerty12_N800> Hmm, I think I'll pass :P.
Nov 06 22:02:30 <JasonWoof> I open the browser an get the [ O Updating ] thing forever
Nov 06 22:02:53 <JasonWoof> I can open the menu, but clicking settings does nothing
Nov 06 22:03:02 <JasonWoof> doesn't matter if I open a blank page, or a bookmark
Nov 06 22:04:55 <suihkulokki> StsN800: had tested that already. Apparently the problem is that the xf86-input-tslib told X it had a 320x200 screen and X tries to scale that...
Nov 06 22:06:31 <StsN800> ah
Nov 06 22:10:41 <suihkulokki> so now it works I hacked in the defaults to 800x480
Nov 06 22:12:09 <lcuk> suihkulokki, is it feasible to operate in arbitrary RGB resolution scaled to fullscreen?
Nov 06 22:12:27 <lcuk> in Xv I have this ability, but I thought it was lacking on the RGB side
Nov 06 22:12:43 <lcuk> ie limited to pixel doubling only
Nov 06 22:14:41 <suihkulokki> honestly.. no idea :)
Nov 06 22:14:53 <lcuk> heh
Nov 06 22:15:10 <lcuk> would be nice to find out and see what the maximum tear tree rgb resolution would be
Nov 06 22:15:54 <lcuk> it would help with a software opengl to know that we don't have to render 800*480
Nov 06 22:16:35 <suihkulokki> I presume there's nothing stopping one creating a RGB Xv window and just SHM'n the game there
Nov 06 22:16:51 <lcuk> not thinking of games :)
Nov 06 22:17:03 <lcuk> well, unless you can make games in clutter
Nov 06 22:53:07 <penguinbait> qwerty you around?
Nov 06 22:53:28 <penguinbait> QWERTY!!
Nov 06 22:55:09 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800 ;)
Nov 06 22:55:22 <Stskeeps> since he's probably on xchat, it'll highlight
Nov 06 22:56:43 <penguinbait> Its not like its busy enough to miss in here :)
Nov 06 23:15:32 * Stskeeps stretches and gets cracking on rewriting the sdk section of reconstructed.
Nov 06 23:17:59 <penguinbait> I got an email from a guy in Au that wants me to build Android for about 5 windows mobile phones, wants to launch by dec 5th
Nov 06 23:18:54 <penguinbait> I went to his website and he has already announced it will be available for 199 by christmas
Nov 06 23:19:16 <penguinbait> hahahaha
Nov 06 23:19:33 <penguinbait> http://www.kogan.com.au/
Nov 06 23:23:52 <GeneralAntilles> t_s_o, yes, Karel's right. Congress was pushing for more high-risk loans to help stimulate the economy.
Nov 06 23:24:27 <GeneralAntilles> That said, there aint anybody involved with clean hands, no matter what they say.
Nov 06 23:24:31 <doc|home> GeneralAntilles: *was*? What do you think the bailout package was expected to do? :/
Nov 06 23:24:35 <t_s_o> heh, guess it shows that i have not been following the news much lately...
Nov 06 23:24:50 <GeneralAntilles> Shit don't get this bad unless everybody's helping it along. ;)
Nov 06 23:25:00 <doc|home> GeneralAntilles: it's not even started :/
Nov 06 23:25:02 <t_s_o> simple greed ;)
Nov 06 23:25:12 <doc|home> t_s_o: mixed with politics
Nov 06 23:25:20 <GeneralAntilles> ^
Nov 06 23:25:24 <GeneralAntilles> Greed isn't a bad thing.
Nov 06 23:25:30 <doc|home> it was greenspan who put interest rates so far in the first place
Nov 06 23:25:32 <GeneralAntilles> The world wouldn't be where it is today without greed.
Nov 06 23:25:34 <doc|home> er, so low
Nov 06 23:25:43 <t_s_o> doc|home: and maybe an attempt or two of buying ones way up the social food chain ;)
Nov 06 23:26:18 <doc|home> t_s_o: meh, I don't care much about that once they're not using my money to do it and once they take the hit when they screw up, which sadly is not the case.
Nov 06 23:27:00 <smackpotato> im going to stimulate the economy when i buy a car next week. everyone should do the same
Nov 06 23:27:10 <doc|home> smackpotato: you buying with debt?
Nov 06 23:27:13 <t_s_o> thinking about resources rushes like gold fevers there GeneralAntilles?
Nov 06 23:27:38 <doc|home> t_s_o: speculation's a good thing, it redirects resources
Nov 06 23:27:41 <smackpotato> na noone will give me credit i have cash
Nov 06 23:27:59 <doc|home> smackpotato: even then you're using debt, all currency is debt these days
Nov 06 23:28:37 <doc|home> since they killed the gold standard they say what backs the US dollar is the strength of the US economy. Scary, don't you think?
Nov 06 23:28:39 <smackpotato> not my dept im getting ride of someone elses dept to me
Nov 06 23:28:44 <t_s_o> doc|home: to be honest, modern economics gives me a headache. it seems to be built out of one dream cloud stacked on top of another...
Nov 06 23:28:59 <doc|home> t_s_o: yep, that's pretty much the case
Nov 06 23:29:11 <doc|home> "here, take some paper, it might even still be worth something next year"
Nov 06 23:29:49 <t_s_o> problem is that im willing to be anything goes back to physics in the end, and that means that pesky law of thermodynamics...
Nov 06 23:29:59 <t_s_o> bet
Nov 06 23:30:35 <doc|home> t_s_o: yeah, why do you think the gold standard keeps popping up every time people realise paper money is worth just that, paper? :)
Nov 06 23:30:48 <doc|home> (or silver, or whatever)
Nov 06 23:31:48 <smackpotato> the total finantial system depends on a small amount of gold deposit at the world bank from all countrys execept britain us and switerland they have there on currancys on deposit
Nov 06 23:32:02 <t_s_o> its something physical, not some multi-tier mental excercise
Nov 06 23:32:05 <doc|home> smackpotato: that isn't even true
Nov 06 23:32:10 <doc|home> smackpotato: there is no gold standard now
Nov 06 23:32:16 <doc|home> it's all paper
Nov 06 23:32:32 <doc|home> they do have some gold, but just as a worst case scenario, there's no ratio of gold to paper
Nov 06 23:32:44 <doc|home> so there's no limit as to how much paper they print
Nov 06 23:32:54 <smackpotato> not true? now ill have to google that
Nov 06 23:32:57 <t_s_o> or if there is, its 0,000+e5000:1
Nov 06 23:33:09 <doc|home> hehe
Nov 06 23:33:18 <t_s_o> and i probably messed up that one
Nov 06 23:34:35 <smackpotato> has anyone tried a usb sound card with a 770
Nov 06 23:34:48 <doc|home> smackpotato: would the kernel have drivers?
Nov 06 23:34:59 * doc|home expects they wouldn't be compiled in the default
Nov 06 23:35:20 <t_s_o> if we could make a comprehensive list of renewable and non-renewable resources on this planet, assign it all a value and use that as a basis to print up a set amount of work currency, then things may become "sane"
Nov 06 23:35:20 <smackpotato> ok
Nov 06 23:35:45 <nemo> the advantage of gold isn't that there is anything special about it
Nov 06 23:35:49 <doc|home> t_s_o: that's what gold was really. Just another commodity which you used as a surrogate for barter.
Nov 06 23:35:55 <nemo> is just that it is a comodity that is relatively valuable in small amoutns
Nov 06 23:36:06 <nemo> and in history, the extraction of gold has roughly matched efficiencies in production
Nov 06 23:36:12 <t_s_o> nemo: it was rare, durable, and shiny...
Nov 06 23:36:18 <nemo> which conveniently kinda matches the overall economy
Nov 06 23:36:21 <nemo> t_s_o: those too
Nov 06 23:36:29 <doc|home> t_s_o: it's less that it was shiny and more that it doesn't degrade
Nov 06 23:36:39 <nemo> t_s_o: most important thing being those who mined gold couldn't just "print money"  - was kinda hard to do
Nov 06 23:36:47 <doc|home> unlike paper, it won't just disintegrate
Nov 06 23:36:50 <nemo> t_s_o: every time huge amounts of gold have been found, they screwed with local economies
Nov 06 23:36:57 <nemo> t_s_o: no different than if a gov't printed tons of money
Nov 06 23:36:59 <doc|home> nemo: one sec about that
Nov 06 23:37:09 <smackpotato> the rub with gold is when it gets expensive people go underground to mine it  some get killed
Nov 06 23:37:11 <nemo> t_s_o: like, Spain got into trouble on that front I seem to remember
Nov 06 23:37:15 <nemo> ditto Cali in gold rush
Nov 06 23:37:45 <doc|home> nemo: the largest inflation in a gold standard was when spain went to south america, prices doubled, over 100 years, I've seen prices triple in my lifetime and I'm only 26.
Nov 06 23:37:48 <nemo> but nowdays, dunno if anyone could mine enough gold to really screw up an economy.  there was one story recently (indonesia?) but that was more due to the local currency
Nov 06 23:37:58 <nemo> doc|home: yeah. I do remember the psain thing
Nov 06 23:38:12 <nemo> spain even :)
Nov 06 23:38:19 <doc|home> nemo: and with the gold rush in the US, the prices there had been dropping for 100 years so when they found gold again it just meant prices rose to where they had been
Nov 06 23:38:23 <doc|home> there wasn't even inflation
Nov 06 23:38:29 <doc|home> (over the long term)
Nov 06 23:38:43 <nemo> doc|home: well, anyway, the main issue with currencies is when the supply changes unexpectedly
Nov 06 23:38:44 <doc|home> the USD has lost 97% of its value in the last 100 years
Nov 06 23:38:46 <nemo> gold rushes do that
Nov 06 23:38:50 <nemo> but then, so does printing currency
Nov 06 23:38:59 <doc|home> nemo: sure, but nowhere near as much, not even close
Nov 06 23:39:00 <nemo> and of the two, gov't screwing with supply is more likely
Nov 06 23:39:05 <nemo> doc|home: not disagreeing :)
Nov 06 23:39:09 <doc|home> yep
Nov 06 23:39:16 <doc|home> they can't screw with miners :)
Nov 06 23:39:17 <nemo> doc|home: 'course, this is all more appropriate to, oh, ##libertarian
Nov 06 23:39:22 <doc|home> nemo: aye
Nov 06 23:39:27 <doc|home> or #sanity
Nov 06 23:39:30 <doc|home> :(
Nov 06 23:39:34 <nemo> same diff :D
Nov 06 23:39:38 <doc|home> hehe
Nov 06 23:40:05 <nemo> next year will be "interesting times" that's for sure
Nov 06 23:40:14 <smackpotato> adam smith based his work on value of grain always having the same value. that went all to hell after industrilization
Nov 06 23:40:32 <nemo> certainly no point in saving - I might even max out those of my cards that are now below the inflation rate
Nov 06 23:40:51 <nemo> smackpotato: there are always production efficiency improvements
Nov 06 23:41:06 <smackpotato> yep always
Nov 06 23:41:26 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: updated SDK section - it's a bit more jucier and based on actual developments in Maemo world (sb2, Maemo SDK+)/tendancies from Nokia now
Nov 06 23:42:37 <Stskeeps> juicier, i mean :P
Nov 06 23:43:51 <smackpotato> how about a usb flash drive on a 770 has anyone tried that
Nov 06 23:44:03 <GeneralAntilles> As long as you can get USB host working. . . .
Nov 06 23:44:27 <smackpotato> using the flasher right?
Nov 06 23:45:48 <GeneralAntilles> You'll need power
Nov 06 23:46:12 <GeneralAntilles> Since the 770's port is completely unpowered
Nov 06 23:46:24 <smackpotato> bummer
Nov 06 23:47:12 <smackpotato> its only going to be used as a music source for my stereo
Nov 06 23:47:54 <smackpotato> so a hub should be ok
Nov 06 23:47:58 <Stskeeps> yeah, powered one
Nov 06 23:48:08 <doc|home> smackpotato: reduction in prices is a good thing. Do you complain when computer hardware gets cheaper?
Nov 06 23:48:26 <smackpotato> nope
Nov 06 23:48:31 <doc|home> win!
Nov 06 23:48:32 <doc|home> :)
Nov 06 23:52:54 <smackpotato> or as they say at the lottery terminals gagnant
Nov 06 23:53:24 * timeless looks for someone w/ a working debian install
Nov 06 23:54:36 <nemo> smackpotato: heck, apart from critiques of monopolies of power, gov't deficit spending to spur future growth is no different than a company taking out an investment loan
Nov 06 23:54:49 <nemo> problem is gov'ts never seem to pay 'em back, or even approach parity with their returns
Nov 06 23:55:00 <nemo> at least ours doesn't :(
Nov 06 23:55:23 <nemo> oh. and stupid beaurocracies have stupid ideas on how to do investments.
Nov 06 23:55:33 <cyrus__> Quick question, when you download the firmware for the N810, it has the filename RX-44-Diablo...what is the difference between that one and the RX-48-Diablo one?
Nov 06 23:55:34 <nemo> guess that falls under monopolies of power
Nov 06 23:55:34 <Stskeeps> timeless: which platform? :P
Nov 06 23:55:52 <GeneralAntilles> cyrus__, RX-48 is the WiMAX Edition
Nov 06 23:56:12 <cyrus__> ok...thank you
Nov 06 23:56:15 <timeless> i need to know what -dbg packages would get debug info for these files: /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 /usr/lib/libtalloc.so.1 /lib/libnss_wins.so.2
Nov 07 00:04:37 <Stskeeps> okay. maybe a stupid question. what happens if i have a package that as a postinst sets up some symlinks, like /a -> /b (symlinks are -not- in package), and i have a package that comes with /a, does /b get overwritten then, or does dpkg do the sane thing and remove the symlink, and -then- replace?
Nov 07 00:05:02 <Robot101> neither
Nov 07 00:05:14 <Stskeeps> .. neither?
Nov 07 00:05:15 <Robot101> wait, no
Nov 07 00:05:17 <Robot101> it depends
Nov 07 00:05:33 <Robot101> if a is a directory, no. dpkg doesn't interchange directories and symlinks
Nov 07 00:05:42 <Stskeeps> it's a file in this case
Nov 07 00:05:48 <Robot101> if a is a file, then it will unlink the symlink and replace it with a file, I believe
Nov 07 00:06:28 <Stskeeps> mmkay
Nov 07 00:08:00 <Robot101> actually it creates a.dpkg-new, then does link('a', 'a.dpkg-old') then rename('a.dpkg-new', 'a')
Nov 07 00:08:10 <Robot101> then unlink('a.dpkg-old')
Nov 07 00:08:16 <Robot101> something like that
Nov 07 00:09:20 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 07 00:09:22 <Stskeeps> thanks
Nov 07 00:40:39 <timeless> :se noai
Nov 07 00:40:39 <timeless> a:se ai
Nov 07 00:42:22 <timeless> so, no takers?
Nov 07 02:20:37 <zakkm> Is there any way to get the USB networking from nokia n800, working on Mac OSX?
Nov 07 02:20:47 <zakkm> (It works successfully on schools pc, but thats windows)
Nov 07 02:52:08 <disco_stu> hi every1
Nov 07 02:52:47 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: are you around ?
Nov 07 02:52:55 <GeneralAntilles> Watching the Office
Nov 07 02:53:30 <tank-man> american or british?
Nov 07 02:53:32 <tank-man> :)
Nov 07 02:53:37 <GeneralAntilles> US
Nov 07 02:54:24 <disco_stu> today i flashed with diablo
Nov 07 02:54:30 <disco_stu> after booting
Nov 07 02:54:34 <disco_stu> i removed pre-installed-sounds 1.0.4 [4331kB]
Nov 07 02:54:37 <disco_stu> and images a videos
Nov 07 02:54:55 <disco_stu> now i'm installing wget and it complains that pre-installed-sounds 1.0.4 [4331kB]  is missing
Nov 07 02:55:21 <GeneralAntilles> Removing the package is the wrong way to go about it
Nov 07 02:55:27 <GeneralAntilles> osso-software-version-rx34 depends on it
Nov 07 02:55:33 <disco_stu> in chinoook it worket that way
Nov 07 02:55:35 <GeneralAntilles> Just delete the media files out of MyDogs
Nov 07 02:55:41 <disco_stu> ok
Nov 07 02:55:45 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, well, Chinook doesn't have automatic system updates.
Nov 07 02:55:52 <disco_stu> i se..
Nov 07 02:55:57 <disco_stu> s/se/see/
Nov 07 02:55:57 <infobot> disco_stu meant: i see..
Nov 07 02:55:58 <GeneralAntilles> System updates are pushed when o-s-v is updated
Nov 07 02:56:10 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia may be dropping the media dependencies from o-s-v sometime in the future
Nov 07 02:56:15 <GeneralAntilles> So the issue may resolve itself
Nov 07 02:56:17 <GeneralAntilles> but for now. . . .
Nov 07 02:56:21 <disco_stu> im about to try rotation right now
Nov 07 02:56:24 <disco_stu> im so excited
Nov 07 02:56:33 <GeneralAntilles> outpo.st/rotate
Nov 07 02:56:58 <disco_stu> the problems of losing video with rotation are solved, right ?
Nov 07 02:57:34 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: that web says it isnt working
Nov 07 02:57:46 <disco_stu> was going to try with: http://www.sse2.net/rotate/
Nov 07 02:57:51 <GeneralAntilles> It doesn't work from the Application Manager like we'd like it to.
Nov 07 02:57:54 <GeneralAntilles> No, use the one I linked
Nov 07 02:57:58 <GeneralAntilles> Just click the .install
Nov 07 02:58:01 <GeneralAntilles> then do an apt-get -f install
Nov 07 02:58:13 <disco_stu> ok
Nov 07 02:58:28 <disco_stu> will it flash ?
Nov 07 02:58:38 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, it'll work fine.
Nov 07 02:58:53 <disco_stu> today i got my new battery for the n800
Nov 07 02:58:57 <disco_stu> im very happy
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 07 02:59:57 2008