**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 09 02:59:57 2008
Nov 09 03:13:01 <srf21c> anybody familiar with a way to control the volume on an N800 via an ssh session?
Nov 09 04:16:37 <halley> Anyone put cvs ON their nokia?  apt-cache doesn't see it but maybe I don't have the right repo.
Nov 09 04:17:02 <halley> Googling for it is a bit tough, given how much 'cvs' appears on everything.
Nov 09 05:47:29 <zakkm> anyone here know a good cbr(comicbook reader format)  reader?
Nov 09 05:47:55 <LinuxCode> there is one in extras
Nov 09 05:48:05 <zakkm> i tried cbrpages but it takes like 30 seconds to load the next page -.-
Nov 09 05:48:10 <LinuxCode> dunno if its good
Nov 09 05:48:36 <johnx> cbrpager was pretty quick for me
Nov 09 05:48:45 <zakkm> for me it takes ages
Nov 09 05:49:08 <johnx> how big are the scans?
Nov 09 05:49:10 <zakkm> 11mb cbr, 28 "pages"
Nov 09 05:49:19 <zakkm> 396kb jpeg's
Nov 09 05:50:03 <johnx> huh. doesn't sound unreasonable
Nov 09 05:50:18 <johnx> why not ask the guy who ported it? there's a thread on itt
Nov 09 05:50:19 <zakkm> thats what i thought
Nov 09 05:51:10 <zakkm> who ported it, do you happen to know off memory?
Nov 09 05:51:27 <johnx> "bge" on itt
Nov 09 05:52:15 <zakkm> is there no other cbr reader?
Nov 09 05:52:19 <zakkm> can evince play cbr's ?
Nov 09 05:52:47 <zakkm> is there Comix ?
Nov 09 05:52:49 <johnx> comix is there, but it's a lot slower than cbrpager
Nov 09 05:52:58 <zakkm> oh
Nov 09 05:53:57 <Navi> evince
Nov 09 05:54:15 <halley> evince is nice for pdf, but does cbr have more to it?
Nov 09 05:55:05 <zakkm> cbr = rar file with pics in it
Nov 09 05:55:15 <zakkm> Evince has an optional package that adds Comic book support.    <--- ?
Nov 09 05:55:20 <zakkm> according to wikipedia
Nov 09 05:55:31 <Navi> built-in support
Nov 09 05:55:44 <zakkm> Evince is a document viewer for multiple document formats. It currently supports pdf, postscript, djvu, cb, cbr, cbz, tiff and dvi.
Nov 09 05:55:48 <zakkm> according to maemo evince page
Nov 09 06:06:31 <halley> Anyone know what apt repo would have 'cvs'?
Nov 09 06:06:42 <zakkm> extras-devel my guess.
Nov 09 06:08:53 <halley> If I wanted to turn euro and yen symbols into { } symbols, what's the file that drives that stuff?
Nov 09 06:17:20 <camel_liu> hi, everyone
Nov 09 06:18:21 <camel_liu> I'm installing gstreamer in X86 target, but encounter a problem.
Nov 09 06:19:45 <camel_liu> I installed newest Gstreamer, and try to install gst-plugins-base, but configure still says: Requested 'gstreamer-0.10 >= 0.10.20.1' but version of GStreamer is 0.10.13
Nov 09 06:20:27 <camel_liu> I installed Gstreamer 0.10.21 just now.
Nov 09 06:21:37 <camel_liu> Any suggestion?
Nov 09 06:24:44 <camel_liu> How can I check which version of Gstreamer is working in my target?
Nov 09 06:25:05 <johnx> apt-cache policy package-name
Nov 09 06:25:19 <johnx> that only works for packages you installed with apt-get or from a .deb
Nov 09 06:27:31 <camel_liu> I just download source, and configure, make and make install
Nov 09 06:28:03 <johnx> getting the package with apt-get should be easier
Nov 09 06:29:29 <camel_liu> johnx, I installed gstreamer-0.10.21, but when I configure gst-plugins-base-0.10.20, it returns error: Requested 'gstreamer-0.10 >= 0.10.20.1' but version of GStreamer is 0.10.13
Nov 09 06:30:37 <camel_liu> Why it is still old version?
Nov 09 06:31:09 <camel_liu> does maemo repo have gstreamer?
Nov 09 06:31:13 <johnx> which packages did you install from source and which package did you install from apt-get
Nov 09 06:31:15 <johnx> ?
Nov 09 06:31:37 <camel_liu> all from source.
Nov 09 06:32:00 <johnx> yes, I think all are available from a maemo repo
Nov 09 06:32:34 <johnx> if you installed .13 first then .21 you might have some left over parts of .13 still installed
Nov 09 06:34:10 <camel_liu> .13 is installed by maemo sdk, I think
Nov 09 06:34:18 <johnx> that seems right
Nov 09 06:34:33 <camel_liu> I installed .21 from source just now.
Nov 09 06:35:14 <camel_liu> For I need do some ogg theora and vorbis development
Nov 09 06:35:20 <johnx> .21 is probably installed to /usr/local/lib and .13 is probably installed to /usr/lib
Nov 09 06:35:54 <camel_liu> when I configured .13, I used --prefix=/usr
Nov 09 06:36:01 <camel_liu> .21
Nov 09 06:36:15 <johnx> then parts of both are probably installed on top of each other
Nov 09 06:36:33 <johnx> do you need .21 for some reason?
Nov 09 06:37:20 <camel_liu> when I install newest gst-plugins-base-0.10.21, it needs gstreamer > 0.10.20
Nov 09 06:37:35 <camel_liu> oog is in gst-plugins-base
Nov 09 06:38:13 <camel_liu> what do you mean 'on top of each other'?
Nov 09 06:38:52 <camel_liu> ogg vorbis asnd theora is in gst-plugins-base
Nov 09 06:38:52 <johnx> I mean, since you didn't remove .13 before installing .21 there are probably leftover parts of .13 still installed
Nov 09 06:39:14 <camel_liu> then I try remove .13?
Nov 09 06:39:56 <johnx> you could do that I guess
Nov 09 06:39:57 <camel_liu> how do I remove it without disturb others?
Nov 09 06:40:22 <johnx> how do you remove .13 without removing .12?
Nov 09 06:40:27 <johnx> well you can't really
Nov 09 06:41:14 <camel_liu> remove .13 and install .21 again?
Nov 09 06:41:30 <camel_liu> remove both and install .21 again?
Nov 09 06:41:40 <johnx> first run make uninstall in the gstreamer .21 source directory
Nov 09 06:41:49 <johnx> then use apt-get remove to remove .13
Nov 09 06:41:52 <johnx> then install .21
Nov 09 06:42:44 <camel_liu> ok, let me try.
Nov 09 06:45:27 <camel_liu> I always met '302 Found' problem when use 'apt-get update' with maemo repo. So I try to do everything from source manually.
Nov 09 06:50:21 <johnx> that will make things very difficult for you
Nov 09 06:51:30 <johnx> qwerty12, aha! I have a good test for aufs
Nov 09 06:51:48 <qwerty12> johnx, sounds good *grin* :)
Nov 09 06:52:02 <johnx> I'm going to be expanding /tmp online
Nov 09 06:53:04 <qwerty12> God knows why they use the /tmp from initfs...
Nov 09 06:53:24 <johnx> we're stuck with it even in deblet it seems.
Nov 09 06:53:29 <johnx> the sooner we're on ohm the better
Nov 09 06:54:07 <qwerty12> yeah
Nov 09 06:59:11 <johnx> I think that just saved me a couple hours at least. :D thanks!
Nov 09 07:00:20 <qwerty12> It worked? /me asks with a hopeful smile :)
Nov 09 07:01:19 <johnx> yup
Nov 09 07:01:33 <johnx> mount -t aufs -o br:/tmp.new/:/tmp none /tmp
Nov 09 07:01:45 <qwerty12> Hah, brilliant, thanks!
Nov 09 07:01:57 <johnx> I don't know if that was sane but it certainly served the purpose of giving me more than 1MB of /tmp for a couple of seconds
Nov 09 07:02:16 <johnx> and /tmp.new had a 62MB tmpfs on it
Nov 09 07:27:22 <qwerty12> Hrm, xchat 2.8.6 is running nicely on the tablet, just need to fix the settings dialog.
Nov 09 07:30:31 <hahlobit> helo, when i boot sdcard got permission problem with screen, only root can use screen? but when boot flashdisk user can use screen. does sdcard booting need to useradf -g somegroup?
Nov 09 07:34:12 <camel_liu> johnx, I configured gst-plugins-base successfully, but it says at last: configure: *** Plug-ins with dependencies that will NOT be built: ogg, theora, 	vorbis.
Nov 09 07:34:31 <camel_liu> which are needed by me.
Nov 09 07:34:53 <camel_liu> how can I let these be built?
Nov 09 07:36:37 <johnx> you need to use apt-get to install libogg-dev, etc
Nov 09 07:37:32 <camel_liu> thanks
Nov 09 07:53:47 <Khertan_n810> Hi !
Nov 09 08:10:31 <liri> hey Khertan
Nov 09 08:43:42 <Mikho> I have a C++ question: I'm planning on creating a string object, resizing it to a certain size, taking the C-pointer with c_str() call, const_cast:ing away the constness and using the pointer to read the actual contents of the string from a socket with recv(). Is this safe?
Nov 09 08:44:29 <Mikho> the point is that I don't need to create extra copies of the string, which might save some time if the string is huge
Nov 09 08:44:43 <Mek> 'const_casting away the constness' -> not safe
Nov 09 08:45:49 <Mek> what might be safer is just using &str[0]; than you don't have to do ugly const castss
Nov 09 08:45:51 <Mikho> why?
Nov 09 08:46:41 <Mikho> I'd like to know if there's some internal mechanic in the string class that prevents this kind of trick
Nov 09 08:47:35 <Mek> why? because the c++ standard says so...
Nov 09 08:47:45 <Mikho> hmm, &str[0] might work too, but isn't the result exactly the same?
Nov 09 08:47:50 <Stskeeps> johnx: eh, deblet should do /boot/tmp, not /tmp
Nov 09 08:48:02 <Mek> in 99% of the cases it will probably work just fine, but it is explicitly forbidden to modify the contents returned by c_str()
Nov 09 08:48:21 <Mikho> I wouldn't want some standard telling me what'S safe an what not, if I think I have a better idea what'S going on
Nov 09 08:48:25 <RST38h> Mikho: The rule of thumb: The more crap you use the less safe it is
Nov 09 08:49:41 <Stskeeps> johnx: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/m-r-booting.tar.gz - M-R image that boots on tablet
Nov 09 08:49:44 <Mikho> well, I guess I might run into problems if the string implementation changes
Nov 09 08:50:01 <Stskeeps> johnx: (has deblet rescue menu to turn on console, splash doesnt work)
Nov 09 08:50:14 <Mikho> but, why would &str[0] be better then?
Nov 09 09:01:04 <RST38h> Mikho: Just use char str[whatever-max-size-you-have]
Nov 09 09:02:35 <Mikho> by using gtk with C seems to slowly erode and twist various programming principles...
Nov 09 09:02:50 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: i'll download that too ;) What does it have already installed?
Nov 09 09:03:53 <RST38h> Avoid using gtk.
Nov 09 09:03:57 <Mikho> RST38h, I don't want to hardcode an upper limit for the string. I think it's a bigger evil than const_casting
Nov 09 09:04:25 <RST38h> Will your string realistically have an upper limit?
Nov 09 09:04:31 <Mikho> then, if I use just char *, I don't get to use the neat C++ string class
Nov 09 09:04:52 <Mikho> the string might be a employer name, or a picture file
Nov 09 09:04:57 <Mikho> or video
Nov 09 09:05:37 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: it's my pimped image from last night + x11-utils and xorg omap driver -but it crashes on my tablet-
Nov 09 09:06:05 <Stskeeps> http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/107mb.txt
Nov 09 09:06:11 <RST38h> "neat C++ string class" -- hehe
Nov 09 09:06:23 <RST38h> another lazy stl user
Nov 09 09:06:37 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: and requires same type of bootmenu item as deblet
Nov 09 09:06:52 <RST38h> Mikho: There is a macro that sets the maximal path length. Define a plain C string of that size
Nov 09 09:06:54 <Meizirkki> ok, i have.
Nov 09 09:07:27 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: and hold down "home" button to activate usbnet when you've selected it in boot menu and press enter
Nov 09 09:07:36 <Stskeeps> and console and such
Nov 09 09:07:37 <RST38h> Mikho: Getting a const pointer from a library of whose internal operation you have no idea about, casting that pointer to non-const, and modifying its contents is NOT safe by any measure
Nov 09 09:07:40 <Mikho> maximal path length?
Nov 09 09:07:41 <Meizirkki> ok
Nov 09 09:08:20 <Mikho> I understand the principle, but...
Nov 09 09:09:24 <RST38h> Mikho: "I am afraid but I would really like to"?
Nov 09 09:09:40 <RST38h> Well, the answer is "Do as you like but be afraid" :)
Nov 09 09:10:01 <Mikho> there doesn't seem to be a good practical reason to follow the principle
Nov 09 09:10:34 <Mikho> principles are notorious for not being 100% correct
Nov 09 09:11:25 <Mikho> I wonder what's the reason c_str() pointer cannot be modified...
Nov 09 09:11:32 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: you on jaiku?
Nov 09 09:11:53 <jagernot> hello how do i obtain a graphics context for a window to draw on?
Nov 09 09:12:59 <Mikho> maybe it's because deleting or new:ing the pointer or sth might destroy everything
Nov 09 09:13:19 <Meizirkki> no, no one invited me and request takes forever :(
Nov 09 09:14:30 <Mikho> ok, I'll see if I get troublems with this solution, and be happy but afraid if I don't
Nov 09 09:14:54 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: msg me an email and i'll invite
Nov 09 09:15:07 <Meizirkki> ok
Nov 09 09:15:07 <Meizirkki> sec
Nov 09 09:23:33 <johnx> hey Stskeeps :)
Nov 09 09:23:41 <johnx> I'll install that as soon as gtk is done compiling
Nov 09 09:23:54 <Stskeeps> alright
Nov 09 09:24:24 <johnx> thankfully I was able to do the gtk compile on the n800 so things should go a lot quicker vs zaurus
Nov 09 09:24:36 <RST38h> Mikho: It cannot be modified because you cannot tell what it is
Nov 09 09:24:50 <Stskeeps> johnx: on jaiku? setting up #reconstructedPOC as a experiment in development, where achievements/proposal changes/experiences/etc are documented
Nov 09 09:24:55 <RST38h> Mikho: It is a point that the completely opaque string class implementation gives to you
Nov 09 09:25:14 <RST38h> Once you modify it, your program may work of fail depending on how string class is implemented
Nov 09 09:25:18 * johnx sighs and makes a jaiku account
Nov 09 09:25:40 <Stskeeps> hehe, want an invite cos it seems their main adding system doesn't work?
Nov 09 09:26:10 <Mikho> I understand that, but the thing is that the opaque class in this case happens to have a function for exposing some of it's internale mechanics
Nov 09 09:26:12 <johnx> eek, really?
Nov 09 09:26:27 <Stskeeps> yeah, i stood in queue for a day or so, invite works fine though
Nov 09 09:26:27 <Mikho> that is, the C string interface
Nov 09 09:26:43 <johnx> thanks
Nov 09 09:27:05 <Mikho> so it's not that opaque
Nov 09 09:27:36 * Stskeeps wonders why wiki.maemo.org is dead again
Nov 09 09:27:53 <johnx> I heard there was another hardware move
Nov 09 09:27:59 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 09 09:28:01 <johnx> though try s/http/https/
Nov 09 09:28:18 <Mikho> I think I can be pretty sure the returned pointer contains the string in question, and is null-terminated
Nov 09 09:28:45 <Stskeeps> johnx: same result though
Nov 09 09:28:59 <johnx> ah, ok. then it's the hardware move
Nov 09 09:29:07 <Mikho> it's not possible that the returned char* would contain just half of the string, while the other end lies in some other part of memory
Nov 09 09:31:40 <Stskeeps> johnx: saw i managed to squeeze http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/107mb.txt into 107mb flash?
Nov 09 09:32:07 <Stskeeps> tracker, pulseaudio, dash,bash, etc
Nov 09 09:32:16 <johnx> yup, just now. catching up with the backlog :)
Nov 09 09:32:24 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 09 09:32:25 <johnx> and bluez too
Nov 09 09:33:53 <RST38h> Mikho: [yawning widely] The reason why it exposes that string to you as c_str() is for compatibility with C. You see, most normal people do not use STL, they use char strings
Nov 09 09:34:14 <RST38h> And somehow STL had to satisfy normal people
Nov 09 09:34:34 <RST38h> So, they made a function to return you a const char *.
Nov 09 09:35:17 <RST38h> But do not treat it as an invitation to screw with it.
Nov 09 09:35:32 <Mikho> yes, that's exactly the reason I can't see why it wouldn't work, compabitility with C
Nov 09 09:36:05 <RST38h> Mikho: Example why it wouldn't work: c_str() may return a pointer to a temporary buffer
Nov 09 09:36:25 <RST38h> so whatever changes you make to it do not get reflected in the STL string
Nov 09 09:36:51 <Mikho> I wonder if there's such an implementation
Nov 09 09:38:10 <Mikho> if there is, I'll quit the idea immediately
Nov 09 09:38:12 <RST38h> Well, cast it to char *, modify it, and continue wondering
Nov 09 09:38:43 <RST38h> I mean, it's not my job to persuade random people on IRC to do things correctly
Nov 09 09:38:50 <jagernot> im struggling to change the color of my pen when i draw into a GtkWidget...
Nov 09 09:39:18 <jagernot> i want to get a GC, then change color via colormap...how to get a GC on a GtkWidget? thanks.
Nov 09 09:39:57 <Mikho> oh, looks like it's not possible for the function to return a copy if I use at() instead
Nov 09 09:40:03 <jagernot> i tried widget->style->fg_gc, black_gc etc but they dont let me change the color..
Nov 09 09:40:10 <Mikho> since at() returns a reference
Nov 09 09:40:50 <Mikho> but, it doesn't make any assumptions on the character order either... hmm
Nov 09 09:44:48 <johnx> grrr...jaiku wants to be able to send an sms to me :/
Nov 09 09:44:51 <johnx> not gonna happen
Nov 09 09:45:47 <Meizirkki> Why?
Nov 09 09:46:07 <johnx> no SMS support on this carrier
Nov 09 09:47:01 <Stskeeps> johnx: you can just skip that part afaik
Nov 09 09:47:18 <johnx> ah cool
Nov 09 09:47:55 <qwerty12> Heh, webmin runs slow on the N800 :P
Nov 09 09:48:30 <Meizirkki> Xchat crashed :/
Nov 09 09:52:44 <Mikho> RST38h, just noticed you recommended avoiding gtk. Is there really a choice if you program for N810?
Nov 09 09:54:11 * lcuk rubs his eyes
Nov 09 09:54:25 * lcuk yawns n stretches
Nov 09 09:54:58 <lcuk> is maemo.org down?
Nov 09 09:55:09 <Stskeeps> think so
Nov 09 09:55:12 <qwerty12> yeah
Nov 09 09:55:18 <Stskeeps> Mikho: qt will come eventually
Nov 09 09:56:32 <hahlobit> hey any guess why /var/run/screen gives permission denied on sdcard boot? but works flash-disk boot? as user in both cases.
Nov 09 09:56:56 <lcuk> sdcard does not have execute permissions
Nov 09 09:57:08 <hahlobit> ah
Nov 09 09:57:22 <johnx> errr...not quite
Nov 09 09:57:37 <qwerty12> ownership I'd guess
Nov 09 09:57:45 <johnx> it actually fails for me when booting from flash
Nov 09 09:58:02 <hahlobit> strange then
Nov 09 09:58:25 <hahlobit> johnx: do you have diaablo too?
Nov 09 09:58:37 * lcuk missed the word boot out
Nov 09 10:00:17 <hahlobit> can i fix it somehow? not nice to run screen irssi as a root.
Nov 09 10:01:15 <Stskeeps> johnx: http://jaiku.com/channel/reconstructedPOC as well then :)
Nov 09 10:01:45 <johnx> hahlobit, just make the directory
Nov 09 10:02:20 <hahlobit> ok
Nov 09 10:02:46 <johnx> no wonder my zaurus was having so much trouble building docs
Nov 09 10:02:57 <johnx> just that part alone is taking 70% of 128MB...
Nov 09 10:03:25 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 09 10:04:12 <johnx> so anyways, gtk should finish in a couple hours
Nov 09 10:05:19 <Stskeeps> sounds good, then we can get hacking on hildon and such
Nov 09 10:05:26 <Stskeeps> i guess we're using the SVN packages?
Nov 09 10:05:37 <johnx> yeah, I'm following trunk
Nov 09 10:05:39 <Stskeeps>  / fremantle ones
Nov 09 10:05:39 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 09 10:05:51 <johnx> ah...well...hmm
Nov 09 10:06:10 <johnx> i wonder how different they are at this point
Nov 09 10:06:22 <Stskeeps> well, trunk=fremantle
Nov 09 10:06:30 <johnx> ah, well that's good news
Nov 09 10:06:36 <Stskeeps> i doubt it's tagged yet
Nov 09 10:07:33 <johnx> i guess the only thing tagged is some hildon stuff?
Nov 09 10:07:43 <hahlobit> ls -l gives /var/run/screen ls -l /var/run/screen
Nov 09 10:07:47 <hahlobit> drwx------    2 root     root
Nov 09 10:08:14 <Stskeeps> hahlobit: there's a bit of weirdness about /var/run when the system boots afaik
Nov 09 10:08:27 <hahlobit> ah
Nov 09 10:08:59 <johnx> I think /var/run/screen needs to be remade and chmod 666 every boot
Nov 09 10:09:33 <hahlobit> strange
Nov 09 10:11:08 <hahlobit> hope uptime is good then :)
Nov 09 10:13:05 <johnx> mmm...changelogs for fremantle look nice :)
Nov 09 10:15:20 <Stskeeps> mm?
Nov 09 10:16:01 <johnx> "Replaced scrolled window with pannable area." from hildon-fm fremantle branch Changelog
Nov 09 10:16:43 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 09 10:17:19 <RST38h> johnx: Are they finally building a decent file manager?
Nov 09 10:17:41 <johnx> hmm, dunno
Nov 09 10:17:58 <johnx> this is just the gtk file open dialog I think
Nov 09 10:18:25 <Meizirkki> Can i boot directly into m-r?
Nov 09 10:18:58 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: yeah, the tar.gz i gave is bootable
Nov 09 10:19:20 <Meizirkki> ok
Nov 09 10:19:22 <RST38h> johnx: it is the same as their file manager
Nov 09 10:20:18 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: tar -zxf it on a ext3 fs or something, and it should be bootable without issue, but you should activate console mode / usb in rescue menu
Nov 09 10:20:34 <Stskeeps> it doesn't have wifi yet
Nov 09 10:21:12 <Meizirkki> i have unpacked it, but how can i activate console mode?
Nov 09 10:22:14 <Meizirkki> i have deblet-bootmenu
Nov 09 10:22:56 <Stskeeps> start it up like you would deblet and hold down the home key after you've selected it in bootmenu and pressed enter
Nov 09 10:23:08 <Meizirkki> ookay
Nov 09 10:23:23 <Stskeeps> then a menu like on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h24f2YjzWBE will come up
Nov 09 10:23:42 <Stskeeps> where you can select usbnet (will activate console too), or just pure console, etc
Nov 09 10:23:51 <Stskeeps> serial doesn't work and splash doesnt either
Nov 09 10:24:08 <Meizirkki> i'm now on rescue menu
Nov 09 10:24:17 <Stskeeps> alright
Nov 09 10:24:24 <Stskeeps> just select ethernet gadget one
Nov 09 10:24:39 <Meizirkki> There is only start deblet normally option
Nov 09 10:25:06 <Meizirkki> nothing happens, when i press laft of right
Nov 09 10:25:36 <Stskeeps> try a little harder
Nov 09 10:25:42 <Stskeeps> it picks up once a second or so :P
Nov 09 10:26:05 <Meizirkki> thanks
Nov 09 10:26:19 <Meizirkki> it lagged first time
Nov 09 10:26:24 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 09 10:26:27 <Meizirkki> rebooted and works now
Nov 09 10:26:50 <Stskeeps> on a n800 or n810?
Nov 09 10:26:55 <Meizirkki> n810
Nov 09 10:27:09 <Stskeeps> ah, lucky bastard
Nov 09 10:27:10 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 10:27:23 <Meizirkki> :)
Nov 09 10:27:48 <Meizirkki> so i dont need computer when i got keyboard
Nov 09 10:27:50 <Meizirkki> ?
Nov 09 10:28:10 <Meizirkki> do i select activate console
Nov 09 10:29:28 <Meizirkki> should wlan work if i install nokias wlan firmware .deb?
Nov 09 10:30:18 <Stskeeps> firmware is already referred to, you just need to ln -s to umac.ko to initfs and grab my cx3110x.ko from deblet
Nov 09 10:31:05 <Meizirkki> what about usb-networking?
Nov 09 10:31:45 <Meizirkki> ah, Fn does not work :(
Nov 09 10:33:22 <Meizirkki> What can i do? :) i'm on root prompt
Nov 09 10:37:29 <Stskeeps> usb networking should work when you select usb networking in rescue menu
Nov 09 10:37:51 <Stskeeps> and then plug it into a usbnet capable machine, nokia sets ip 192.168.2.2 netmask 255.255.255.0
Nov 09 10:52:05 <lcuk> Stskeeps, you up for a lazy day today or bat out of hell?
Nov 09 10:52:05 <Stskeeps> heh, wikipedia "Due in part to the free and open source nature of Linux and Maemo, porting applications to Maemo is a straightforward procedure."
Nov 09 10:52:18 <Stskeeps> lcuk: breakfast, coffee and reading for classes
Nov 09 10:52:20 <qwerty12> I say bollocks!
Nov 09 10:53:00 <johnx> to which part?
Nov 09 10:53:02 <lcuk> porting applications is simple, you just have to crack your own framebuffer, construct a graphics library, incorporate support for widget frameworks and then write the applications
Nov 09 10:53:10 <Stskeeps> johnx: "straightforward"
Nov 09 10:53:15 <qwerty12> ^
Nov 09 10:53:22 <Stskeeps> maybe compared to porting from windows CE to maemo
Nov 09 10:53:39 <johnx> ah, I figured bollocks to "reading for classes" :)
Nov 09 10:53:47 <johnx> or possibly coffee
Nov 09 10:53:59 <qwerty12> Heh, I don't drink tea or coffee anyway :P
Nov 09 10:54:06 <lcuk> neat vodka
Nov 09 10:54:29 <lcuk> or do you have vodka shandy still?
Nov 09 10:55:41 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: you don't drink tea or coffee and yet you have energy for all the neck-breaking stuff you do? scary
Nov 09 10:55:44 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 10:55:51 <lcuk> Stskeeps, hes young
Nov 09 10:56:00 <lcuk> give him a few years
Nov 09 10:56:17 <qwerty12> :P
Nov 09 10:56:33 * Stskeeps started at 15
Nov 09 10:56:33 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 10:56:42 <lcuk> once he hits 19 or 20 he will be over the hill and begin to show us that he ported backgammon or something
Nov 09 10:57:29 <lcuk> hmmm virus checker is goin bonkers
Nov 09 10:57:45 <johnx> that's what they do
Nov 09 10:58:08 <qwerty12> The joys of windows...
Nov 09 10:58:24 <lcuk> heh, it scanned 1.5million objects before i noticed it had gone nutes though
Nov 09 10:58:29 <lcuk> mustv just hit a noisey drive
Nov 09 10:58:49 <hahlobit> is there clamavv for maemo?
Nov 09 10:58:56 <Meizirkki> Trying to get usbinternet to my n810
Nov 09 10:59:23 <Meizirkki> i can ping my tablet... but bridging does not work yet
Nov 09 10:59:30 <Stskeeps> http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/trunk/packages/main/tablet-network-setup/interfaces.deblet
Nov 09 10:59:33 <Stskeeps> may come in usefu
Nov 09 10:59:34 <Stskeeps> l
Nov 09 10:59:46 <Meizirkki> thanks
Nov 09 10:59:48 <lcuk> johnx, did you join jaiku so you could cheerleader sts, or for some other reason? :D
Nov 09 11:00:04 <Stskeeps> lcuk: experiment i'm doing.. collaboration over microblogging
Nov 09 11:00:21 <Stskeeps> or keeping eachother up to date since we are timezones apart
Nov 09 11:00:22 <johnx> ah, so should I post build updates to jaiku instead of IRC then?
Nov 09 11:00:25 <lcuk> sts, as ive said i really like what you are doing :)
Nov 09 11:00:29 <Stskeeps> johnx: either is good
Nov 09 11:00:44 <lcuk> heh johnx, i pondered posting all my irc directly to jaiku as well
Nov 09 11:00:50 <lcuk> but figured i'd blow their servers
Nov 09 11:01:10 <Stskeeps> johnx: i've put some of the packages and such already as links on the #reconstructedPOC channel
Nov 09 11:01:24 <Mek> hmm, is maemo.org down or is it just me?
Nov 09 11:01:32 <johnx> Stskeeps, I need to follow that too then
Nov 09 11:02:34 <Stskeeps> Mek: not just you
Nov 09 11:02:47 <Mek> okay
Nov 09 11:03:05 <Stskeeps> johnx: it also serves as a kind of backlog we can look back and people who join in can quickly get updated on difficulties/progress/where we are etc
Nov 09 11:03:30 <johnx> good. I think this is a good compromise format between wiki and irc
Nov 09 11:03:31 <lcuk> Stskeeps, i already get those items dont i
Nov 09 11:03:57 <Stskeeps> lcuk: i'm not sure if you see it just cos of me posting to #reconstructedPOC cos you're following me
Nov 09 11:04:20 <lcuk> only thing i dont like is the webpage "add your jaiku here"  i keep pressing return to do a second line and it posts it
Nov 09 11:04:30 <lcuk> yeah sts, i havent missed any of them
Nov 09 11:05:27 <Stskeeps> johnx: ~/public_html on trac.* is now accessible on trac.tspre.org/johnx btw
Nov 09 11:05:29 <Stskeeps> for packages and such
Nov 09 11:05:53 <johnx> sounds good, I'll start uploading to there and following with a jaiku post
Nov 09 11:05:55 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 09 11:06:42 <hahlobit> xandros got clamav for eeepc maybe nokia should have it in maemo too :)
Nov 09 11:07:35 <lcuk> hahlobit, go for it, see how well it works
Nov 09 11:07:36 <Stskeeps> hahlobit: i've yet to see a virus and since we don't run everything as root or allow people to type in "reboot" or "wget http://somewhere/something; chmod +x; ./something" on people's keyboards, we're fairly safe
Nov 09 11:07:40 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 11:07:41 <qwerty12> hahlobit, there's nothing stopping you from compiling it :). Personally I think it's a waste of time having an av on Linux, forget about a ARM device
Nov 09 11:08:10 <lcuk> qwerty, you forget malicious code does not just come in binary form
Nov 09 11:08:28 <lcuk> aren't there plenty of scriptable nasties around?
Nov 09 11:08:51 <qwerty12> Common sense says to check scripts though
Nov 09 11:09:12 <Stskeeps> johnx: there seems to be a small bunch of nokia people on jaiku as well so they might follow / join if it gets some more attention
Nov 09 11:09:25 <johnx> the more the merrier
Nov 09 11:09:44 <johnx> is jaiku a nokia project?
Nov 09 11:09:51 <johnx> or is it just more popular in Europe?
Nov 09 11:09:55 <hahlobit> qwerty12: i heard fsecure is doing testing on maemo, some of their devs looked bonobo for maemo.
Nov 09 11:10:38 <qwerty12> Interesting :). Well, it seems one av company doesn't agree with me :)
Nov 09 11:10:48 <Stskeeps> johnx: nah, google thing i think, but it's finnish..
Nov 09 11:11:17 <hahlobit> is there gsm phone coming on maemo platform?
Nov 09 11:11:28 <Stskeeps> hahlobit: nah, data only HSDPA/3g
Nov 09 11:11:40 <Stskeeps> would you really want earmarks on your tablet? :P
Nov 09 11:11:41 <hahlobit> ok
Nov 09 11:12:15 <hahlobit> is that 3g model out already?
Nov 09 11:12:24 <Stskeeps> nop, coming .. at some point
Nov 09 11:12:27 <Veggen> qwerty12: AV companies have an interest in keeping the myth that Linux virues will come in masses similar to Windows when it gets as popular.
Nov 09 11:12:50 <Stskeeps> johnx: think we'll use jaiku icons to seperate the different issues, - so we can go back and see what things we need nokia to fix/problems etc
Nov 09 11:12:54 <lcuk> virus writers would like to make that come true
Nov 09 11:13:23 <meiz_2> is the jaiku client "mauku" worth of trying?
Nov 09 11:13:31 <Veggen> lcuk: Linux isn't immune to viruses, but there's inherent differences making them not as likely to spreak.
Nov 09 11:13:35 <Veggen> eh, spread.
Nov 09 11:13:42 <Stskeeps> meiz_2: it's alright
Nov 09 11:14:05 <qwerty12> hahlobit, everytime you think of a tablet with a phone, look at this first : http://www.cheatcc.com/images/news/oldngage.jpg :P
Nov 09 11:14:05 <hahlobit> wonder why no linux virus?
Nov 09 11:14:16 <johnx> it's not worth the time of virus writers
Nov 09 11:14:35 <lcuk> didnt viruses and rootkits exist here before windows?
Nov 09 11:15:02 <Veggen> johnx: Wrong. Linux computers tend to be on much more continuously than windows machines, and can therefore be much more useful once you get at them.
Nov 09 11:15:11 <johnx> hahlobit, why target a small technologically knowledgeable group instead of a big, diverse (but mostly not very knowledgeable) group?
Nov 09 11:15:12 <lcuk> having a blanket trust of any system is worrying in itself
Nov 09 11:15:36 <Stskeeps> i think tablets may be useful in terms of bluetooth headsets and such though
Nov 09 11:15:38 <Stskeeps> for phoning
Nov 09 11:15:45 <lcuk> johnx, you dont target the people, you target the hardware - and that same hardware is running most of the internet
Nov 09 11:15:52 <johnx> lcuk, agreed. package signing needs to become ubiquitous
Nov 09 11:16:11 <lcuk> but we just abandoned signed packages for maemo.org repo
Nov 09 11:16:18 <Veggen> lcuk: Noone does, and that's why it's *always* (well, at least as far back as since I started paying attention) been a habit to for example drop into "nobody"-user for apache...
Nov 09 11:16:21 <johnx> the other thing is that the software you need to infect is so massively diverse
Nov 09 11:16:22 <qwerty12> Veggen, Heh :/. For i386 probably, I still don't believe we will see a "horde" of linux viruses on the tablet :). Especially with the tablets being so easy to reflash. Then again, a virus that destroys mtd0 *shudders*
Nov 09 11:17:01 <lcuk> destructive viruses are rare nowadays
Nov 09 11:17:15 <Veggen> qwerty12: I don't believe we'll see a mass of badly written programs that require ordinary users to run as root or have such rights all over the file system.
Nov 09 11:17:20 <lcuk> you still occasionally here about people firing up their amigas and inserting old disks
Nov 09 11:17:38 <lcuk> its like ebola outbreaks
Nov 09 11:17:47 <Veggen> qwerty: Windows' virus-problems these days largely are due to that very old habit.
Nov 09 11:18:20 <Stskeeps> lcuk: i still wonder how much damage is possible to do with extras upload.. you could potentially override some base packages
Nov 09 11:18:28 <lcuk> agreed
Nov 09 11:18:48 <lcuk> so if one extras uploaded was compromised it could be a problem
Nov 09 11:18:54 <lcuk> uploader ^
Nov 09 11:19:10 <lcuk> i quite liked the signing process
Nov 09 11:19:25 <lcuk> it was a pain in the arse, but gave it that offical stamp
Nov 09 11:19:56 <johnx> Veggen, but any program installed can have a postinst run as root
Nov 09 11:20:20 <hahlobit> have you seen rootkits on maemo?
Nov 09 11:20:39 <lcuk> no, but why do that - the entire kernel can be replaced
Nov 09 11:21:00 <qwerty12> hahlobit, http://p.quinput.eu/debfarm/pool/rkhunter_1.3.2-5_all.deb - rootkit hunter, knock yourself out :P
Nov 09 11:21:33 <lcuk> heh - in a discussion about viruses i dont think anyone will install a random deb
Nov 09 11:21:41 <lcuk> even from you qwerty
Nov 09 11:21:44 <hahlobit> that for maemo cool
Nov 09 11:21:44 <qwerty12> :P
Nov 09 11:21:51 <lcuk> especially from you actually :P
Nov 09 11:22:04 <qwerty12> Nah, it's from itT user free, who's been around for a long time :P
Nov 09 11:22:34 <qwerty12> lcuk, :P. Fine, I'll scrutenize liqbase closely when I upgrade it :P
Nov 09 11:22:53 <lcuk> great, please do qwerty, i removed the root requirement for just this reason discussed now
Nov 09 11:23:06 <meiz_2> maemo.org still down :(
Nov 09 11:23:11 <lcuk> the cpu adjustments now are the only things run with sudo
Nov 09 11:23:19 <johnx> eh, viruses that run as root are totally unnecessary
Nov 09 11:23:34 <lcuk> agreed johnx, still a lot of valuable stuff in there without
Nov 09 11:23:41 <hahlobit> wonder is there many webservers on maemo
Nov 09 11:23:49 <johnx> opening ports, reading browser cache, running as a daemon
Nov 09 11:23:56 <johnx> hahlobit, plenty
Nov 09 11:24:13 <qwerty12> lcuk, it was kinda dodgy running liqbase as root as you once did because that messed up ownership of files :P
Nov 09 11:24:39 <lcuk> yeah i know - its fine now though :)
Nov 09 11:25:10 <proto> meiz_2, maemo is up now :)
Nov 09 11:25:17 <meiz_2> ok
Nov 09 11:25:22 <lcuk> do you think we will have nice fast maemo.org after this service break?
Nov 09 11:25:39 <lcuk> "The operation timed out when attempting to contact maemo.org."
Nov 09 11:25:40 <proto> lcuk: Impressive job with liqbase
Nov 09 11:25:49 <lcuk> thank you proto :)
Nov 09 11:26:05 <qwerty12> lcuk, same here
Nov 09 11:26:30 <lcuk> thank you qwerty :p
Nov 09 11:26:33 * qwerty12 slaps himself for even thinking about switching to KDE from GNOME
Nov 09 11:26:38 <proto> well, I dont know shit about programmin but still seem 9cool
Nov 09 11:27:04 <qwerty12> lcuk, timing out that is :P. You've heard my complements towards liqbase before :P
Nov 09 11:27:43 <proto> lcuk, I leaved a message on the maemo forum
Nov 09 11:28:31 <lcuk> recently or a couple of months ago?
Nov 09 11:28:45 <proto> about helping you out with graphics in case
Nov 09 11:28:56 <proto> mh, a couple of hours ago I think
Nov 09 11:29:00 <proto> seem pretty recent to me
Nov 09 11:29:43 <lcuk> mmmm find the post cos theres nothin on the thread and my mail hasnt binged
Nov 09 11:30:13 * lcuk has neglected slashdot this year
Nov 09 11:30:22 <hahlobit> apt-cache search apache  didn't find any?
Nov 09 11:30:29 <lcuk> ive dropped my stats on seenonslash :(
Nov 09 11:30:44 <johnx> hahlobit, try lighthttpd (sp?)
Nov 09 11:30:55 <hahlobit> ok
Nov 09 11:30:55 <qwerty12> lcuk, for you:
Nov 09 11:30:58 <qwerty12> ~slashdot
Nov 09 11:31:00 <infobot> Slashdot Headlines (6 of 15): Irish GSM Providers Asked to Track Users' Web Use ;; OpenSolaris 2008.11 &ndash; Year of the Laptop? ;; China Hijacks Popular BitTorrent Sites ;; Amazon's Cloud Data Center to Follow Google to Oregon ;; Microsoft Working On Its Own App Store ;; NYCL Responds to RIAA Accusations.
Nov 09 11:31:32 <lcuk> nice
Nov 09 11:32:47 <hahlobit> nokia got port of apache for symbian (raccoon) i thought they port it maemo too
Nov 09 11:33:46 <johnx> it's available somewhere I'm sure
Nov 09 11:33:51 <johnx> but why do you need apache?
Nov 09 11:34:03 <johnx> it doesn't need to be "ported" just recompiled and repackaged
Nov 09 11:34:14 <lcuk> because its backend surely it doesnt need "porting" it should just be a case of building it ?
Nov 09 11:34:19 <lcuk> mainly
Nov 09 11:34:23 <lcuk> heh
Nov 09 11:34:38 <qwerty12> hahlobit, lighttpd (which would run a hell of a lot better on the tablets) is available at: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=235084&postcount=19
Nov 09 11:34:40 <johnx> but "porting" is kind of an amorphous word
Nov 09 11:34:47 <qwerty12> apache2 is in extras and on garage afaik
Nov 09 11:34:55 <hahlobit> but with symbian it was port
Nov 09 11:35:12 <qwerty12> symbian ain't linux
Nov 09 11:35:44 <hahlobit> nice to have apache on phone too
Nov 09 11:36:50 <johnx> I'm still trying to figure out why you want apache over something faster and smaller?
Nov 09 11:37:18 <hahlobit> no reason just know it
Nov 09 11:37:29 <proto> httpd on maemo sound amazing to me
Nov 09 11:40:22 <lcuk> Proto, this is amazing https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/4816/wp_nokia1.jpg ive seen the swirly nokia logo before (i went to the website they have lots of nice things) but the  background somehow feels like escher mixed up with xkcd
Nov 09 11:41:37 * lcuk loves pencil drawings
Nov 09 11:41:38 <Stskeeps> is that bacon in one of the bubbles?
Nov 09 11:41:58 <proto> lol, thanks, I just grabbed a screenshot from the nokia marketing clip
Nov 09 11:42:44 <proto> oh, uhm, no
Nov 09 11:43:00 <lcuk> Stskeeps, i think so
Nov 09 11:43:05 <lcuk> don't believe proto :P
Nov 09 11:43:13 <proto> I was refering to then new wallpaper
Nov 09 11:43:19 <proto> you are right
Nov 09 11:43:33 <proto> damn it, I didnt think I uploaded that
Nov 09 11:43:55 <proto> I guess I should remove it from there
Nov 09 11:44:22 <lcuk> thats a shame
Nov 09 11:44:26 <lcuk> i really like it
Nov 09 11:44:53 * lcuk adds a monitor for that thingy
Nov 09 11:45:03 <proto> well, I didnt make it, I just paste the nokia logo on a probably copyrighted pic
Nov 09 11:45:03 <proto> take it
Nov 09 11:45:05 <proto> ill probably remove it  in a couple of days
Nov 09 11:45:13 <proto> :)
Nov 09 11:45:40 <proto> well, Im nearly bored with that stupid theme
Nov 09 11:46:22 <lcuk> heh, your new desktop https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/4819/085sshot_home_black.jpg looks cool as well
Nov 09 11:46:32 <lcuk> im reminded of the flash version of portal for some reason
Nov 09 11:47:54 <proto> yes, that is the nokia clip screenshot
Nov 09 11:48:00 <proto> dman it really late
Nov 09 11:48:08 <proto> father wait me for lunch
Nov 09 11:48:20 <proto> see you soon guy
Nov 09 11:48:30 <proto> happy sunday
Nov 09 11:48:33 <johnx> 'later
Nov 09 11:48:38 <lcuk> cya proto
Nov 09 11:48:44 <johnx> heh...end of sunday here :/
Nov 09 11:49:01 <lcuk> heh
Nov 09 11:49:05 * lcuk has a happy sunday
Nov 09 11:49:10 * lcuk jumps for joy \o/
Nov 09 12:00:57 <mlpug> is maemo.org website up-and-running properly? I cant access it while other sites tend to work ok
Nov 09 12:01:16 <mlpug> "The server at maemo.org is taking too long to respond."
Nov 09 12:01:40 <johnx> looks down from here
Nov 09 12:03:41 <Meizirkki2> There are many "icy" packages available at http://repository.handhelds.org/
Nov 09 12:04:06 <johnx> yeah, saw that, but I think it's still pretty slim compared to hasty
Nov 09 12:04:16 <johnx> still, more are showing up every day
Nov 09 12:04:25 * johnx is jealous of mojo's build farm
Nov 09 12:04:50 <Meizirkki2> yep, waiting for armv6el-vfp release..
Nov 09 12:06:13 <johnx> well an armv5el release would be interesting too :)
Nov 09 12:08:27 <Meizirkki2> thinking about the time, its only week when interpid came offical...
Nov 09 12:11:58 <eichi> hello
Nov 09 12:12:12 <eichi> is there somewhere a maemo sdk qemu image?
Nov 09 12:12:56 <Stskeeps> think there's a vmware one..
Nov 09 12:13:36 <GNUton> is planet.maemo.org down?
Nov 09 12:13:45 <Mek> everything.maemo.org is down I think
Nov 09 12:13:57 <GNUton> Mek: that's great
Nov 09 12:14:02 <qwerty12_N800> 'cept garage + the repos
Nov 09 12:15:44 <lcuk> uuuurg http://dailycostume.com/archive/reallydamnscary/ she would have no problem coding everything, got plenty of hands
Nov 09 12:20:19 <mlpug> can I introspect what dbus services in n810 are available for my application to use? for example, does gpsd offer geolocation coordinates for my application to use?
Nov 09 12:23:16 <camel_liu> Does anybody have a sample about how to play ogg video in maemo?
Nov 09 12:23:53 <camel_liu> I can play a .ogg file's audio, but cannot play its video.
Nov 09 12:24:17 <Stskeeps> johnx: glib in the .tar.gz is your package btw
Nov 09 12:24:30 <johnx> :D
Nov 09 12:24:44 <johnx> libosso is up, I *think* gtk must be close to finished
Nov 09 12:25:20 <johnx> any request for the next build? for now I'm running separate builds on both machines. after gtk finishes I'll switch to distcc
Nov 09 12:26:30 <camel_liu> The window is flashing in different color when play a .ogg, but I can hear its audio.
Nov 09 12:27:49 <Stskeeps> johnx: sec, might have one
Nov 09 12:28:25 <bergie> there is a new database server coming for maemo.org, so this might be the downtime for that. not sure
Nov 09 12:28:40 <Stskeeps> johnx: hildon-1 i guess is next logical step
Nov 09 12:28:48 <johnx> depends on gtk, right?
Nov 09 12:29:06 <johnx> <- duh of course it does john
Nov 09 12:29:11 <lcuk> bergie, finally upgrading maemo.org to a new n810 then
Nov 09 12:29:29 <bergie> lcuk: I'm more waiting for friday when we upgrade midgard there :-)
Nov 09 12:29:37 <Stskeeps> yeah, and on that only of the stuff we're messing about with
Nov 09 12:29:45 <lcuk> excellent bergie, hope it goes smoothly
Nov 09 12:30:40 <johnx> hopefully gtk will finish before I go to bed and hildon-1 can compile overnight to give distcc a good test
Nov 09 12:31:19 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 09 12:31:43 <Stskeeps> should be done with --with-maemo-gtk=yes i guess (if it's not default on)
Nov 09 12:31:54 <johnx> check
Nov 09 12:33:07 <Stskeeps> MAEMO_CHANGES or something
Nov 09 12:35:01 <johnx> looks like it defaults to enabled
Nov 09 12:35:20 <Stskeeps> mm
Nov 09 12:35:26 <johnx> think it's reasonable to build without docs for now?
Nov 09 12:35:28 <Stskeeps> verify when configure runs i guess
Nov 09 12:35:33 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 09 12:35:41 <Stskeeps> proof of concept, not final system
Nov 09 12:35:41 <johnx> the time spent on docs is kind of ridiculous
Nov 09 12:35:52 <Stskeeps> i forsake scrollkeeper and all it's evil as well
Nov 09 12:35:53 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 12:37:05 <johnx> alright, no more builds with docs
Nov 09 12:49:06 <johnx> I don't even know if xsltproc is still working or if it just fell into a loop :/
Nov 09 12:49:17 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 09 12:49:38 <camel_liu> Does anyone know how to program to play .ogv or .swf using gstreamer?
Nov 09 13:10:51 <Meizirkki2> now installing qemu...
Nov 09 13:13:17 <lcuk> Stskeeps, i am right in thinking i can use qemu and your image from windows aren't i
Nov 09 13:13:41 <Stskeeps> lcuk: the .tar.gz? right now it's a thing that boot on the tablet
Nov 09 13:13:54 <Stskeeps> jffs2 images are bootable on qemu but i havent released those yet
Nov 09 13:14:23 <lcuk> is it possible to just grab the standard maemo one and boot with that
Nov 09 13:14:25 <lcuk> or wont it work
Nov 09 13:14:28 <Stskeeps> yeah, it is
Nov 09 13:14:32 <Stskeeps> read hrw's postings on it
Nov 09 13:14:50 <Stskeeps> but you need to do some tricky stuff to get it to boot properly i guess
Nov 09 13:14:53 <lcuk> cool, cos obviously windows install will appeal to some users
Nov 09 13:15:19 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/install-MR-sdk where i get my qemu from
Nov 09 13:15:28 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 13:15:28 <Stskeeps> and toolchains and sb2
Nov 09 13:15:31 <Meizirkki2> yhanks
Nov 09 13:15:35 <Meizirkki2> t*
Nov 09 13:15:39 <Stskeeps> (requires a lot of stuff. git, svn, etc.)
Nov 09 13:21:48 <Meizirkki2> what was that command to debootstrap minimum system?
Nov 09 13:21:58 <Meizirkki2> *rootfs
Nov 09 13:23:34 <Stskeeps> debootstrap --arch=arm --variant=minbase hasty /target mirror
Nov 09 13:23:35 <Stskeeps> i think
Nov 09 13:23:51 <johnx> sounds right. and remember that mirror is required
Nov 09 13:27:50 <amrileria> does anyone have a good pointer to doc where I can see how to implement xmlhttprequest from my rich client in python. I couldn't find any.
Nov 09 13:34:31 <johnx> interesting. running ifconfig in ubuntu on the n800 has a non-zero chance of causing the machine to hang and reboot
Nov 09 13:34:46 <Stskeeps> my booted image?
Nov 09 13:34:54 <johnx> mine actually
Nov 09 13:34:57 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 09 13:34:59 <johnx> think it's related to wireless
Nov 09 13:35:20 <johnx> I might as well install yours at this point though and work up from it
Nov 09 13:35:56 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Nov 09 13:51:51 <Meizirkki2> i an willing to try run armv6 release in qemu
Nov 09 13:54:07 <Stskeeps> mm - make a ttyS2 in etc/event.d in same manner as tty1, add ttyS2 to /etc/securetty
Nov 09 13:54:31 <Stskeeps> passwd root
Nov 09 13:55:14 <Stskeeps> get poky-nokia800-flashutil
Nov 09 13:55:54 <Stskeeps> mkfs.jffs2 -o file.jffs2 -e 128KiB -n -v -r /where/your/sys/is
Nov 09 13:56:37 <Stskeeps> poky-nokia800-flashutil file.jffs2 n800.flash rootfs
Nov 09 13:57:15 <Stskeeps> flasher-3.0 -u -F a nokia firmware image, and grab zImage from it
Nov 09 13:58:06 <Stskeeps> and then qemu-system-arm -M n800 -cpu arm1136-rw -kernel zImage -mtdblock n800.flash -m 130M --append="root=/dev/mtdblock4 rootfstype=jffs2 console=ttyS2" -serial vc -serial vc -serial stdio
Nov 09 13:58:16 <Stskeeps> .. and then it should start booting, may wait a while at initial mount
Nov 09 13:59:11 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 13:59:36 <Stskeeps> good luck :P
Nov 09 14:00:36 <Stskeeps> and beware, if you want to replace the jffs2 image in it, rm the old one first, or you get funkeh errors
Nov 09 14:01:34 <Stskeeps> as in, the n800.flash one
Nov 09 14:05:16 <lopz> hola
Nov 09 14:05:42 <johnx> I never used rescue menu until now. It's definitely very cool :)
Nov 09 14:05:46 <johnx> hi lopz
Nov 09 14:10:30 <Stskeeps> johnx: very useful indeed
Nov 09 14:11:46 <Stskeeps> much can be said about XP's F8-on-boot, but it is actually bloody useful
Nov 09 14:11:46 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 14:12:01 <johnx> except when it isn't
Nov 09 14:12:16 <johnx> whereas init=/bin/sh will almost always get you *somewhere*
Nov 09 14:12:52 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 09 14:13:07 <johnx> the main reason I use linux is I got fed up with things going wrong in windows and having no way to fix them
Nov 09 14:14:40 <johnx> really quiet news day O_o
Nov 09 14:16:36 <Meizirkki2> maybe is't best if i just let that qemu thing go...
Nov 09 14:16:36 <Stskeeps> indeed
Nov 09 14:17:07 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: hehe, it will emulate a little faster than n800 but not much more
Nov 09 14:17:52 <Meizirkki2> I have n o idea how can i make it work, so i'll just play littlebit more with my n810.
Nov 09 14:19:20 <Meizirkki2> your 123mb flash thing looks great
Nov 09 14:21:09 <camel_liu> how can I play a video using gstreamer in scratchbox?
Nov 09 14:21:11 <camel_liu> gst-launch filesrc location=Ballun2008.ogg ! oggdemux ! theoradec ! xvimagesink
Nov 09 14:21:13 <Stskeeps> yeah, but i would ideally like to have base user experience around 100mb-110mb
Nov 09 14:21:14 <johnx|n800> my desktop just shut off and won't turn on. might take me a bit longer to finish builds :/
Nov 09 14:21:34 <Stskeeps> hate when that happens, johnx|n800 :P
Nov 09 14:21:46 <Stskeeps> i'll get a maemo gtk build going then
Nov 09 14:21:57 <camel_liu> It returns: Could not open display
Nov 09 14:22:06 <Stskeeps> camel_liu: export DISPLAY=:0 or something
Nov 09 14:22:16 <johnx|n800> yeah. don't really have another x86 box right now :|
Nov 09 14:22:40 <camel_liu> I use: Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x24 -dpi 96 -ac -extension Composite
Nov 09 14:22:52 <camel_liu> and export DISPLAY=:2
Nov 09 14:23:28 <camel_liu> xvimagesink.c(1348): gst_xvimagesink_get_xv_support (): /GstPipeline:pipeline0/GstXvImageSink:xvimagesink0:
Nov 09 14:23:28 <camel_liu> No port available
Nov 09 14:24:02 <lcuk> xephyr cannot do xv
Nov 09 14:24:24 <camel_liu> Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server
Nov 09 14:24:25 <lcuk> hrw couldnt get mplayer nor liqbase running in emulated environment for the same reason
Nov 09 14:24:41 <camel_liu> that is when export DISPLAY=:0
Nov 09 14:25:50 <Stskeeps> camel_liu: you're better off testing on tablet for this
Nov 09 14:26:12 <johnx|n800> it lives!
Nov 09 14:26:24 <camel_liu> video cannot test in scratchbox?
Nov 09 14:26:45 <Stskeeps> johnx: woo!
Nov 09 14:27:48 <derf> camel_liu: What's wrong with just using playbin?
Nov 09 14:28:42 <camel_liu> derf, how to just use playbin?
Nov 09 14:29:03 <derf> gst-launch playbin uri=file:///path/to/file
Nov 09 14:29:31 <camel_liu> let me try
Nov 09 14:29:31 <johnx> well that put me pretty close to panic for a while O_o
Nov 09 14:30:00 <Meizirkki2>  ls
Nov 09 14:30:08 <Meizirkki2> sorry :)
Nov 09 14:30:11 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: you're not on an android phone
Nov 09 14:30:19 <Meizirkki2> no
Nov 09 14:30:28 <Stskeeps> johnx: i have that with my work stuff.. even though i'm insured up the wazoo, i would -hate- to break something
Nov 09 14:30:49 <camel_liu> return: Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server, Xlib: No protocol specified
Nov 09 14:31:07 <johnx> normally, I'd just be frustrated but if this box dies it might be a while before I can replace it
Nov 09 14:31:22 <derf> Set your DISPLAY to point back to :2
Nov 09 14:31:22 <camel_liu> what should I set export DISPLAY?
Nov 09 14:31:52 <camel_liu> DONE!
Nov 09 14:32:01 <camel_liu> derf, it's DONE!
Nov 09 14:32:17 <camel_liu> thanks
Nov 09 14:32:33 <derf> Yer welcome.
Nov 09 14:32:37 <Meizirkki2> sorry about my english skills, stskeeps, what did you mean with that android phone?
Nov 09 14:33:03 <derf> camel_liu: Out of curiosity, what are you planning to do with Theora?
Nov 09 14:33:15 <johnx> there's a bug on the new android phones that cause anything typed on them to be executed as a command by root
Nov 09 14:33:17 <camel_liu> then, what's the sink should be in program?
Nov 09 14:33:53 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 14:35:58 <camel_liu> I have a plan with maemo and N800. I'm trying to figure out a bussiness plan about an especial application of a handheld like N800 in China.
Nov 09 14:36:23 <camel_liu> I think it's a big bussiness.
Nov 09 14:37:00 <Stskeeps> johnx: you remember to dpkg -i your own packages when compiling the next step btw?
Nov 09 14:37:09 <johnx> yes, of course
Nov 09 14:37:12 <Stskeeps> oki
Nov 09 14:37:20 <johnx> heh...I only got one step in though
Nov 09 14:38:19 <johnx> so did you start a maemo-gtk build?
Nov 09 14:38:33 <Stskeeps> not yet, setting up my environment for it
Nov 09 14:39:02 <camel_liu> derf, what should I use in sink element?
Nov 09 14:40:14 <Meizirkki2> For m-r ui, Is the hildon good choise?
Nov 09 14:40:36 <Meizirkki2> i mean is it going to be with hildon and matchbox
Nov 09 14:40:52 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: that's initial goal -but- the goal is that it should be a versatile platform
Nov 09 14:41:00 <Stskeeps> if people want to run u-m interface, lxde, etc, they can
Nov 09 14:41:13 <Meizirkki2> oks
Nov 09 14:41:16 <Stskeeps> and there won't be a "hack" feeling about it
Nov 09 14:41:55 <Meizirkki2> but with 250 mb flash it won't be possible to install another desktop environment into nit
Nov 09 14:42:03 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: aufs, clone to SD
Nov 09 14:42:11 <Stskeeps> plenty of possibilities.
Nov 09 14:42:11 <Meizirkki2> yep
Nov 09 14:43:23 <Meizirkki2> i cannot kick myself...
Nov 09 14:43:38 <Stskeeps> it's just about supporting it sanely in the system so it isnt a hack
Nov 09 14:43:52 <lcuk> Stskeeps, its usable :D http://liqbase.net/liq.20081109_143957.gary.scr.png
Nov 09 14:44:02 <Meizirkki2> i mean that i tried to kick myself from this channel :)
Nov 09 14:45:31 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: /part :P
Nov 09 14:45:36 <Stskeeps> you cannot kick yourself :>
Nov 09 14:47:58 <Meizirkki2> is there a repository or a place where on the internet where you have those .debs like kerner-diablo-modules?
Nov 09 14:48:13 <Meizirkki2> *place in the internet
Nov 09 14:48:13 <Stskeeps> packages.tspre.org
Nov 09 14:48:16 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 14:48:19 <Stskeeps> in pool/
Nov 09 14:48:27 <Meizirkki2> are there arm packages too
Nov 09 14:48:33 <Stskeeps> not yet :P
Nov 09 14:48:34 <Meizirkki2> or armel
Nov 09 14:48:36 <Stskeeps> armel
Nov 09 14:48:37 <hahlobit> Stskeeps: could you make sdcard debians for nokia phones too :)
Nov 09 14:48:53 <Stskeeps> hahlobit: with a very large hammer and a useless result..
Nov 09 14:48:53 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 14:49:14 <Meizirkki2> :D
Nov 09 14:49:20 <hahlobit> pity
Nov 09 14:49:46 <hahlobit> i would like debian in n95 too
Nov 09 14:50:16 <Stskeeps> it's slightly easier getting other linux types on n8x0's than on n95s, which afaik has signed firmware
Nov 09 14:50:18 <hahlobit> iphone got linux
Nov 09 14:50:32 <johnx> iphone has more people working on it
Nov 09 14:50:49 <hahlobit> ok
Nov 09 14:50:49 <johnx> you could be do your part in getting linux on the n95 though :)
Nov 09 14:51:09 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, signing was cracked a long time ago
Nov 09 14:52:47 <Meizirkki2> debian would be nice on my 5500 with 208x208 screen
Nov 09 14:53:23 <hahlobit> hackndev guys spoke booting communicator from sdcard but didn't see it
Nov 09 14:56:10 <Meizirkki2> what packages i have to install for bootable hasty?
Nov 09 14:56:39 <johnx> why not just start with Stskeeps' minbase .tgz?
Nov 09 14:56:46 <Stskeeps> he's trying with armv6
Nov 09 14:57:11 <Stskeeps> oh, hasty?
Nov 09 14:57:15 <Stskeeps> then use my tar.gz? :P
Nov 09 14:57:17 <Meizirkki2> yep
Nov 09 14:57:30 <johnx> debootstrap an image, install boot basics,
Nov 09 14:57:36 <Meizirkki2> is there armv6 .tar.gz
Nov 09 14:57:39 <Stskeeps> nop
Nov 09 14:58:21 <Stskeeps> to get to my result you need to install boot basics, copy /etc/init.d/deblet-boot-basics from armv5 .tar.gz, install udev, cp in fb0, fb1, fb2, etc :P
Nov 09 14:58:34 <Meizirkki2> only boot-basics is enough?
Nov 09 14:58:36 <Meizirkki2> thanks
Nov 09 14:58:42 <Stskeeps> .. and the fbcon stuff
Nov 09 14:58:45 <Stskeeps> it's not a easy feat :)
Nov 09 14:58:53 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 14:59:01 <Stskeeps> you may be easier off simply replacing each package in armv5 one with their armv6 counterpa
Nov 09 14:59:05 <Stskeeps> r
Nov 09 14:59:06 <Stskeeps> t
Nov 09 14:59:25 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: isn't n95 and n800 same base board?
Nov 09 14:59:26 <johnx> aaactually, couldn't you switch repos and pin the armv6 repo higher to force a reinstall?
Nov 09 15:00:02 <Stskeeps> possible
Nov 09 15:00:05 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, both bb5, both use same processor
Nov 09 15:00:18 <Stskeeps> johnx: but may fail cos i did docpurge
Nov 09 15:00:31 <johnx> it shouldn't, should be a straight upgrade
Nov 09 15:00:45 <Stskeeps> mm
Nov 09 15:01:14 <johnx> either way, it's a faster result than manually hacking around building a bootable system
Nov 09 15:01:26 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 15:02:22 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: if you're bored you can attempt with getting X running and such on armv5, xserver from deblet should work just fine
Nov 09 15:02:35 <Stskeeps> we can move to armv6 when we've gotten the various packages built and such
Nov 09 15:03:20 <johnx> I'll be able to start building gtk with distcc in a couple minutes, if you haven't started yet
Nov 09 15:03:20 <Stskeeps> and make an installer that puts stuff on top, like deblet does it
Nov 09 15:04:15 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: you're also welcome to take source packages from deblet such as deblet-boot-basics, update it with the tar.gz version of the script, and dpkg-buildpackage it :)
Nov 09 15:04:18 <Stskeeps> so we have it
Nov 09 15:04:36 <Stskeeps> johnx: think mine will take atleast 10 mins before it's easy
Nov 09 15:04:45 <Stskeeps> my attempt is qemu chroot of it with distcc somewhere else
Nov 09 15:04:53 <Stskeeps> easy=able
Nov 09 15:07:41 <Stskeeps> so just go ahead with yours.. im wondering if mine will be okay, two different gcc versions it seems
Nov 09 15:07:53 <johnx> it *should* be
Nov 09 15:08:10 <johnx> maybe we should both try unless you have other things to work on
Nov 09 15:08:19 <Stskeeps> yeah.. it's just running right now
Nov 09 15:08:23 <Stskeeps> and reading for classes
Nov 09 15:08:37 <Stskeeps> better to have two attempts going if one fails ;)
Nov 09 15:09:11 <johnx> and if both fail, we'll learn twice as much :)
Nov 09 15:18:33 <Stskeeps> packages that don't respect CC= are fail.
Nov 09 15:18:40 <Meizirkki2> o
Nov 09 15:18:57 <Meizirkki2> k
Nov 09 15:19:14 <johnx> well, there goes both of our plans
Nov 09 15:19:24 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 09 15:19:38 <Stskeeps> ah, lovely, it did repsect it
Nov 09 15:19:44 <Stskeeps> that's funky
Nov 09 15:21:00 <Meizirkki2> i was doing my homework :X
Nov 09 15:21:53 <Meizirkki2> i almost have booting armv6 now :)
Nov 09 15:23:03 <Stskeeps> i'm watching gtk compile
Nov 09 15:23:13 <Meizirkki2> well anyway i am just a kid, so i might just think i am smart enough to do that :P
Nov 09 15:23:32 <Meizirkki2> to make it bootable
Nov 09 15:23:46 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 09 15:23:48 <johnx> you should be able to. it's tricky, but totally doable
Nov 09 15:23:57 <Stskeeps> linuxrc makes things a -lot- easie
Nov 09 15:23:57 <Stskeeps> r
Nov 09 15:24:04 <Meizirkki2> yep
Nov 09 15:24:06 <Stskeeps> less initfs crap to deal with
Nov 09 15:24:17 <johnx> as soon as you can get a shell of some sort, it gets a lot easier
Nov 09 15:25:25 <Meizirkki2> i debootstrapped armv6 on top os Stskeeps unpacked armv5.
Nov 09 15:25:32 <Stskeeps> that works? :P
Nov 09 15:25:36 <Meizirkki2> and i know that was not smart
Nov 09 15:25:49 <Stskeeps> i'm not confident it isn't directly impossible either
Nov 09 15:25:56 <Meizirkki2> i have'nt tride yet
Nov 09 15:26:01 <Meizirkki2> *tried
Nov 09 15:26:07 <Stskeeps> you may have some inconsistent package state but files stay
Nov 09 15:26:09 <Meizirkki2> (or whatever
Nov 09 15:26:13 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 15:27:09 * Stskeeps wanders down to get some more coffee
Nov 09 15:27:56 <Meizirkki2> i think it would boot now, but i'll try to install needed packages....
Nov 09 15:29:27 <Stskeeps> if you sense any kind of speedup, i'm all ears
Nov 09 15:30:15 <Meizirkki2> one of my first tries with mojo: i accidentally debootstrapped it on top of deblet, and many things worked better, like locales, and it did not nagg about missing kernel modules...
Nov 09 15:30:36 <Stskeeps> hehe. progress often happens by accident
Nov 09 15:30:37 <Stskeeps> "hmm, that's funny"
Nov 09 15:31:16 <Meizirkki2> Is there anything i can test the speed of hasty?
Nov 09 15:31:24 <johnx> gtkperf maybe?
Nov 09 15:32:14 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 15:33:46 <Meizirkki2> i can install and generate locales, but how can i set the default locale?
Nov 09 15:34:06 <Jaffa> af'noon all
Nov 09 15:34:28 <lcuk> hey there jaffa
Nov 09 15:40:03 <Meizirkki2> wohoo! i made it
Nov 09 15:40:31 <Stskeeps> mm?
Nov 09 15:40:43 <Meizirkki2> bootable armv6,
Nov 09 15:41:01 <Stskeeps> with console? :)
Nov 09 15:41:36 <Meizirkki2> yep
Nov 09 15:41:46 <Meizirkki2> every time i install mojo, i have to flash bootmenu
Nov 09 15:41:48 <Meizirkki2> weird
Nov 09 15:41:53 <Stskeeps> weird
Nov 09 15:42:01 <Meizirkki2> otherways, linuxrc wont work
Nov 09 15:42:03 <Stskeeps> feel free to micro-document the achievement on #reconstructedPOC
Nov 09 15:42:10 <Stskeeps> on what you did to get there
Nov 09 15:42:54 <Meizirkki2> Maybe it boots because i debootstrapped on top of your rootfs :P
Nov 09 15:42:59 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 09 15:43:02 <Stskeeps> possible
Nov 09 15:48:36 <Stskeeps> damn, gtk is still compiling
Nov 09 16:04:20 <Meizirkki2> it takes sooooooo long
Nov 09 16:04:32 <Jaffa> p.m.o down?
Nov 09 16:04:46 <Meizirkki2> yep
Nov 09 16:05:11 <Jaffa> bah
Nov 09 16:05:18 <Meizirkki2> maemo.org has been down whole day
Nov 09 16:05:34 <Meizirkki2> GMT +2 :p
Nov 09 16:06:04 * Jaffa is in the mood for some Valable hacking, but is at parents' unexpectedly
Nov 09 16:06:13 <GAN800> Servers are moving. :/
Nov 09 16:06:13 <Meizirkki2> should i try go make x work?
Nov 09 16:06:37 <johnx> I wonder why they didn't just plug in wireless cards and big UPS devices...
Nov 09 16:07:14 <Jaffa> GAN800: hadn't that already happened? Or is this a physical move of the new h/w?
Nov 09 16:07:25 <Meizirkki2> Stskeeps: i'll install hildon an try if it works?
Nov 09 16:07:43 <Jaffa> Doing things "out-of-hours" makes *least* sense when it's a hobbyist community, IMHO
Nov 09 16:07:46 <nemo> Jaffa: p.m.o WFM
Nov 09 16:08:17 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: get xserver working first, get xserver-xomap from deblet and look at /etc/default/x-server.defs
Nov 09 16:08:27 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 16:08:38 <Stskeeps> and use the last part as parameters for X
Nov 09 16:08:56 <Stskeeps> you may need to fb_update_mode manual
Nov 09 16:09:06 <Stskeeps> and then see if you can get u-m running i guess
Nov 09 16:09:51 <Meizirkki2> u-m = ubuntu-mobile?
Nov 09 16:09:56 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 09 16:09:58 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 16:10:11 <Stskeeps> that itself is kinda a neat showoff :P
Nov 09 16:10:18 <Meizirkki2> yep
Nov 09 16:10:29 <Meizirkki2> it is gonna take some time with ky
Nov 09 16:10:39 <Meizirkki2> * my skills and my internet speed
Nov 09 16:10:44 <Stskeeps> hehe.
Nov 09 16:11:02 <Stskeeps> i had a open source project going when it was 57.6kbps and i was 15, stop complaining ;)
Nov 09 16:11:41 <Meizirkki2> i have 54kb/s and i am 14! :D
Nov 09 16:11:57 <nemo> Stskeeps: hah. you kids and your fast modems
Nov 09 16:11:59 <Meizirkki2> so i WILL complain
Nov 09 16:11:59 <Stskeeps> oh, now qwerty12 isn't the youngest anymore, neat
Nov 09 16:12:07 <Meizirkki2> hehe
Nov 09 16:12:07 <Stskeeps> nemo: i -did- use a 14.4kbps in the beginning :P
Nov 09 16:12:10 <nemo> we counted ourselves lucky if our BBS had 2400bps :D
Nov 09 16:12:42 <Meizirkki2> i should download everyhing at school, 9800kb/s
Nov 09 16:12:42 <nemo> Stskeeps: I reiterate :-p
Nov 09 16:12:49 <hahlobit> Stskeeps: were you involved linux 0.1 then :)
Nov 09 16:12:57 <Stskeeps> hahlobit: i'm 24 now :P
Nov 09 16:13:11 <hahlobit> oh
Nov 09 16:13:26 <Stskeeps> so no, but i did try debian back in 95 or so
Nov 09 16:14:05 <johnx> when you were 10?!
Nov 09 16:14:15 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 09 16:14:22 <Stskeeps> i coded pascal somewhat sanely at 9, so
Nov 09 16:14:25 <johnx> ahaha...I got into the game late
Nov 09 16:14:29 <nemo> Stskeeps: hey! me too!
Nov 09 16:14:33 <johnx> I could barely type until I was 13
Nov 09 16:14:35 <Stskeeps> and c64 basic at 6-7
Nov 09 16:14:38 <nemo> Stskeeps: my mom sent me to local community college to learn pascal :)
Nov 09 16:14:47 <nemo> Stskeeps: it was *the language* back then
Nov 09 16:14:51 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 09 16:14:55 * Stskeeps was mostly self-taught
Nov 09 16:14:57 <johnx> hey, at least it wasn't COBOL
Nov 09 16:15:03 <GAN800> Jaffa, servers are being moved to a new physical location.
Nov 09 16:15:03 <Stskeeps> my parents had a cobol book
Nov 09 16:15:07 <Stskeeps> i read it for a while and then gave up
Nov 09 16:15:16 <nemo> Stskeeps: but, I'm surprised you were still learning pascal at 9, it was already descendant at the time
Nov 09 16:15:26 <GAN800> I don't think there are any real upgrades going on, though. :\
Nov 09 16:15:39 <Stskeeps> nemo: poor family. old equipment, used polypascal and turbo pascal
Nov 09 16:15:43 <Stskeeps> on a 80286
Nov 09 16:15:57 <Jaffa> GAN800: Ta for the info. BTW, seen the -devel thread about CLI apps in AM?
Nov 09 16:16:10 <Stskeeps> so learnt how to use a computer to the fullest and appreciate the equipment that's working
Nov 09 16:16:13 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 16:16:51 <nemo> Stskeeps: '86 personally (Turbo Pascal)
Nov 09 16:16:54 <GAN800> Jaffa, yeah, I may wade into that one when I'm back home
Nov 09 16:17:22 <nemo> Stskeeps: I infer from you giving your age you learned TP in '95
Nov 09 16:17:39 <GAN800> Jaffa, personally, I don't have an issue with commandline tools like wget, nano and ssh being in user/utilities
Nov 09 16:17:49 <nemo> er.
Nov 09 16:17:51 <nemo> '87
Nov 09 16:18:07 <Stskeeps> nemo: nah, this was tp 5-6-7 or something
Nov 09 16:18:10 <nemo> and actually might have been '88 - if mom signs on, I'll ask her
Nov 09 16:18:12 <Stskeeps> i was 3 years old in 84
Nov 09 16:18:15 <Stskeeps> er
Nov 09 16:18:16 <Stskeeps> 87
Nov 09 16:18:19 <GAN800> tz sort of muddied the discussion with more of his Red Pill nonsense.
Nov 09 16:18:22 <zakkm> i was 1 year old in 1992 ;p
Nov 09 16:18:24 <Meizirkki2> I have been playing with linux almost my whole age because my family have used linux since it was 1998
Nov 09 16:18:40 <nemo> kiiiids!
Nov 09 16:18:41 <nemo> ahhh
Nov 09 16:18:50 <qwerty12> zakkm, same :P
Nov 09 16:18:50 <Jaffa> GAN800: True. They seem different to filesystems etc, though. Perhaps it's not CLI/non-CLI, but root/non-root?
Nov 09 16:18:53 <nemo> kidding. I'm still a kid. yes.
Nov 09 16:18:56 <Meizirkki2> you hate kids?
Nov 09 16:19:01 <Meizirkki2> a
Nov 09 16:19:03 <nemo> no. just feeling old :(
Nov 09 16:19:06 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 16:19:13 <Meizirkki2> :P
Nov 09 16:19:14 <Jaffa> Ditto
Nov 09 16:19:16 <nemo> but then, one of my coworkers is in his 60s
Nov 09 16:19:23 <Stskeeps> i feel old when my nephew starts learning python & php
Nov 09 16:19:26 <nemo> and he is as much a hacker as ever
Nov 09 16:19:28 <zakkm> oh qwerty12: i saw you came out with the android release (kernel v2 or something), is it worth trying?
Nov 09 16:19:42 <GAN800> Jaffa, that makes sense to me
Nov 09 16:19:43 * Jaffa was programming BBC BASIC when he was 8 in 1985 - so not /that/old now
Nov 09 16:19:54 <qwerty12> zakkm, that's pretty old now. I haven't touched android in a long time
Nov 09 16:19:58 <nemo> Jaffa: hey, I found some of my old basic programs from back then
Nov 09 16:20:02 <zakkm> o.
Nov 09 16:20:05 <nemo> Jaffa: they are pretty crappy - wanna laugh at 'em? :)
Nov 09 16:20:13 <Jaffa> nemo: heh
Nov 09 16:20:20 <GAN800> Jaffa, I don't think Red Pill or SDK repos are at all relevant to the discussion.
Nov 09 16:20:36 <Jaffa> GAN800: Agreed
Nov 09 16:20:45 * Jaffa goes to wake up the boy
Nov 09 16:21:18 <nemo> Actually, I was still coding in qbasic at 13 *sigh* - I didn't learn proper languages 'till later
Nov 09 16:21:22 <nemo> so you guys are all ahead of me
Nov 09 16:21:28 <nemo> the pascal I never used outside the community college
Nov 09 16:21:45 * Stskeeps moved on to C from there
Nov 09 16:21:49 <nemo> yep
Nov 09 16:22:01 <Meizirkki2> but i have never been good with coding...
Nov 09 16:22:04 <johnx> I started TI-Basic at 14, then jumped into an intermediate class on C and miraculously didn't fail
Nov 09 16:22:05 <nemo> C was a joy after pascal, frankly.  Never understood what the instructor saw in pascal
Nov 09 16:22:07 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: plenty of time to learn
Nov 09 16:22:09 <nemo> annoying freakin' language
Nov 09 16:22:14 <Stskeeps> johnx: i -think- my gtk is finishing up
Nov 09 16:22:29 * zakkm learned something called Turing, in beginner programming in grade 10.
Nov 09 16:22:42 <johnx> I forgot to give make -j4
Nov 09 16:22:46 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 09 16:22:51 <Stskeeps> i didn't do that either
Nov 09 16:22:58 * Stskeeps did c64 basic, then poly/turbo pascal, c, then c++, then java at uni and now at python
Nov 09 16:22:58 <johnx> which is fine, it's all happening on my desktop
Nov 09 16:23:01 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 16:23:06 <Stskeeps> (of preferred languages)
Nov 09 16:23:24 <nemo> Stskeeps: I think Javascript is ascendant in the interpreted languages :)
Nov 09 16:23:31 <zakkm> Anyone know if a ipod touch screen protector will fit my nokia n800 perfectly?
Nov 09 16:23:32 <nemo> but Python is definitely ahead of Ruby
Nov 09 16:23:35 <Stskeeps> yeah, but python is just delicious :P
Nov 09 16:23:48 <Stskeeps> it allows me to prototype what i want and do it in a manner that fits with my education
Nov 09 16:23:50 <johnx> I always liked scheme, just never had a chance to use it
Nov 09 16:23:52 <nemo> Stskeeps: I'm stick with Perl until python gets a set of libs as large as CPAN :-p
Nov 09 16:24:05 <Meizirkki2> where can i get libts0 for mojo?
Nov 09 16:24:09 <nemo> oh. and I despise their use of whitespace
Nov 09 16:24:21 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: it's in universe/multiverse
Nov 09 16:24:29 <Stskeeps> just add the sources.list from the dist page
Nov 09 16:24:31 <nemo> so, I suppose I'll have to write a shell script that autotransforms a more C-like python into standard
Nov 09 16:24:34 <nemo> after writing it
Nov 09 16:24:47 <Meizirkki2> thanks, i haven't updated my sources.list yet, so there is only main
Nov 09 16:24:55 <GAN800> zakkm, the iPhone screen is a half-inch smaller. . . .
Nov 09 16:25:10 <Stskeeps> zakkm: get a boxwave one. i love them.
Nov 09 16:25:25 <Stskeeps> which reminds me its soon time to replace or clean mine
Nov 09 16:25:32 <GAN800> I wish all of maemo.org worked as well as Bugzilla
Nov 09 16:26:03 <zakkm> ah no, i have alot of uhh bootleg malls in my city ( Toronto, Canada) and they sell cheap ipod touch screen protectors
Nov 09 16:26:05 <zakkm> for like $3-5
Nov 09 16:26:09 <zakkm> so i was just wondering :p
Nov 09 16:26:24 <zakkm> Mine is so scratched up ( havent removed the one it came with, yet )
Nov 09 16:26:42 <nemo> you guys are so careless
Nov 09 16:26:48 <nemo> my SO's iphone screen is still flawless
Nov 09 16:26:55 <nemo> and I bought it for her 1½y ago
Nov 09 16:27:00 <nemo> her battery still works great too
Nov 09 16:27:07 <zakkm> nemo: i bought my nokia used - it came already scratched
Nov 09 16:27:13 <johnx> your SO's battery?
Nov 09 16:27:14 <nemo> oh. nokia
Nov 09 16:27:20 <zakkm> n800 - $145.
Nov 09 16:27:20 <nemo> johnx: heh
Nov 09 16:27:24 <nemo> johnx: that too :-p
Nov 09 16:27:32 <nemo> zakkm: thought you were talking about your ipod touch
Nov 09 16:27:35 <zakkm> no
Nov 09 16:27:36 <Stskeeps> nemo: she has it stored in the safe? :P
Nov 09 16:27:42 <nemo> does the n800 have less hard of plastic?
Nov 09 16:27:55 <nemo> Stskeeps: she takes it everywhere, she's just more careful :-p
Nov 09 16:27:57 <zakkm> alot of places sell ipod touch screen protectors cheap.. so i was just wondering if i could buy that for my nokia
Nov 09 16:28:03 <nemo> leaves it docked when at home to not stress battery
Nov 09 16:28:33 <Stskeeps> johnx: woo, all done
Nov 09 16:28:43 <johnx> nice. you beat me to it by a long shot
Nov 09 16:28:58 <johnx> but my distcc env is at least setup
Nov 09 16:29:00 <Stskeeps> hehe, well you had a computer temporarily dying too ;)
Nov 09 16:29:18 <johnx> yeah, and the ensuing near heart attack O_o
Nov 09 16:31:49 <Meizirkki2> okay, where can i get libhall?
Nov 09 16:32:33 <Meizirkki2> xserver-xomap deps on it
Nov 09 16:33:44 <johnx> probably from the deblet package repo
Nov 09 16:33:58 <Meizirkki2> it is not there
Nov 09 16:34:09 <Meizirkki2> trying to find it from debian repos next.
Nov 09 16:34:19 <Stskeeps> libhal should be in ubuntu really
Nov 09 16:34:38 <johnx> libhal1 maybe instead of libhall ?
Nov 09 16:34:52 <Meizirkki2> that might be it
Nov 09 16:35:23 <Meizirkki2> yep, thanks
Nov 09 16:36:09 <zakkm> how goes the ubuntu on NIT?
Nov 09 16:36:15 <johnx> it goes, it goes :)
Nov 09 16:36:16 <Meizirkki2> great!
Nov 09 16:36:46 <johnx> Stskeeps, what cross gcc are you using on your desktop?
Nov 09 16:37:43 <Stskeeps> codesourcery
Nov 09 16:37:51 <Stskeeps> gcc-4.3 something
Nov 09 16:37:52 <johnx> 2008q3?
Nov 09 16:37:55 <Stskeeps> think so
Nov 09 16:38:07 <johnx> ok, I'm getting some slightly worrying messages from it
Nov 09 16:38:13 <Stskeeps> mm?
Nov 09 16:38:17 <Stskeeps> the rdlo, stuff?
Nov 09 16:38:26 <johnx> such as: arm-linux-gnu-gcc: unrecognized option '-pthread'
Nov 09 16:38:34 <Stskeeps> odd
Nov 09 16:38:41 <johnx> and alsom some fairly cryptic stuff about enum
Nov 09 16:38:51 <Stskeeps> i do have a fairly odd distcc setup so
Nov 09 16:39:50 * Stskeeps uploads maemo-gtk packages
Nov 09 16:40:54 <Stskeeps> i don't understand my connection - earlier i was scping to my uni with about 5mb/s
Nov 09 16:41:00 <Stskeeps> scping back again, 150kb/s
Nov 09 16:41:17 <zakkm> does kde4 kill the nokia's battery and cpu ?
Nov 09 16:41:25 <Meizirkki2> yes it does
Nov 09 16:41:27 <johnx> Stskeeps, complain to the sys admin :D
Nov 09 16:41:52 <zakkm> i love going through show your screenshots .. threads
Nov 09 16:42:38 <Stskeeps> johnx: saw meiz's gallery? http://picasaweb.google.com/mail.deweb/n810#
Nov 09 16:43:16 <Stskeeps> most of the last scrshots are very itneresting
Nov 09 16:43:24 <Meizirkki2> wow, i am getting some respect xD
Nov 09 16:43:43 <Stskeeps> for a guy who claimed he never compiled a package, you're doing alright
Nov 09 16:43:43 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 16:44:10 <johnx> yes, whatever you did, keep doing it :D
Nov 09 16:44:10 <Meizirkki2> i am just overblown betatester
Nov 09 16:44:21 <johnx> everyone starts out that way
Nov 09 16:44:22 <Meizirkki2> :)
Nov 09 16:44:40 <zakkm> Meizirkki2: hows lxde on the tablet? ( know it from my old desktop )
Nov 09 16:45:37 <Meizirkki2> It is good
Nov 09 16:46:21 <zakkm> my friend wants to use it for his future linux desktop (hes waiting for a new pc purchase) and i want to be able to show him it first
Nov 09 16:46:37 <Meizirkki2> i like Deblet with LXDE a lot.
Nov 09 16:46:45 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 16:48:12 <Stskeeps> maemo gtk package on jaiku
Nov 09 16:49:58 <Stskeeps> hmm.. gtk20-l10n
Nov 09 16:52:01 <Meizirkki2> *STUPID GUESTION ALERT*
Nov 09 16:52:05 <Meizirkki2> What are these packages for?
Nov 09 16:52:17 <Stskeeps> maemo gtk?
Nov 09 16:52:31 <Meizirkki2> YEP
Nov 09 16:52:33 <johnx> Meizirkki, ah, they're the "maemo version" of gtk
Nov 09 16:52:34 <Meizirkki2> sorry
Nov 09 16:52:39 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 16:52:50 <Stskeeps> johnx: any objections against using https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/l10n/gtk20-l10n_4.2.tar.gz for gtk20-l10n?
Nov 09 16:52:51 <johnx> nokia makes slight changes to their version of gtk compared to ubuntu or debian
Nov 09 16:53:00 <Stskeeps> seems to be the fremantle one (4.2 and all)
Nov 09 16:53:19 <johnx> so a .tar.gz instead of a .deb?
Nov 09 16:53:27 <Stskeeps> it's a source package
Nov 09 16:53:36 <johnx> ah, well then no problem
Nov 09 16:53:56 <johnx> I assumed we'd use most of the maemo-customized packages
Nov 09 16:54:09 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 09 16:54:15 <Stskeeps> this one doesnt exist in normal gtk so
Nov 09 16:54:20 <Meizirkki2> what was that file i need to edit alter installing xserver-xomap?
Nov 09 16:54:29 <Stskeeps> see /etc/default/x-server.defs
Nov 09 16:54:35 <Meizirkki2> thanks
Nov 09 16:54:36 <johnx> so you're moving up to hildon? if so, I'll start cairo
Nov 09 16:54:36 <Stskeeps> for the parameters to give to X
Nov 09 16:54:52 <Stskeeps> alright, - gtk isn't terribly optimized though
Nov 09 16:55:08 <Stskeeps> not sure which one gcc targeted
Nov 09 16:55:19 <johnx> heh...actually that's kinda scary
Nov 09 16:55:35 <Stskeeps> i'll recompile if it becomes an issue :P
Nov 09 16:55:46 <johnx> the mojo gcc should target whatever sub arch it came from: armv5el or armv6el, etc
Nov 09 16:55:53 <Stskeeps> yeah, but distcc
Nov 09 16:55:54 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 16:55:57 <Meizirkki2> i have to change something? everything looks good here...
Nov 09 16:56:05 <johnx> but the code sourcery one probably targets armv4t
Nov 09 16:56:06 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: well there's no script to actually start X
Nov 09 16:56:14 <Stskeeps> so just X <the parameters from there>
Nov 09 16:56:24 <Stskeeps> so something like X :1 -nolisten tcp -wr etc etc
Nov 09 16:56:34 <johnx> but don't do that unless you have another way to get into the tablet, such as ssh or telnet :)
Nov 09 16:56:49 <Stskeeps> oh, and do Xomap instead or X
Nov 09 16:56:53 <Stskeeps> X may use the xorg driver which dies
Nov 09 16:57:07 <Stskeeps> instead of
Nov 09 16:57:41 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 16:58:23 <zakkm> wow lol
Nov 09 17:00:30 <Meizirkki2> is this good enough to work: Xomap :0 -mouse tslib -nozap -dpi 96 -wr -nolisten tcp
Nov 09 17:00:45 <johnx> yeah, should work
Nov 09 17:00:49 <zakkm> anyone know why theres a vertical "line" on left of "home"
Nov 09 17:00:54 <zakkm> right***
Nov 09 17:00:59 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: for U-m you want :1 instead probably
Nov 09 17:01:05 <zakkm> it doesnt go all the way down though
Nov 09 17:01:14 <zakkm> 96 dpi?
Nov 09 17:01:17 <zakkm> seems small :P
Nov 09 17:01:21 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: you might have tslib calibration problems
Nov 09 17:01:24 <zakkm> thought the nokia has 225 ?
Nov 09 17:01:28 <Meizirkki2> I can change start-hildon script to use :1
Nov 09 17:01:33 <Meizirkki2> *:0
Nov 09 17:01:37 <johnx> zakkm, this line: is it a software thing or a hardware thing?
Nov 09 17:01:37 <Stskeeps> true
Nov 09 17:02:08 <zakkm> software
Nov 09 17:02:11 <Meizirkki2> i should remove -mouse tslib?
Nov 09 17:02:29 <zakkm> nuvoclear2 theme
Nov 09 17:02:33 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: does /etc/pointercal exist?
Nov 09 17:02:50 <Stskeeps> and /etc/init.d/x-server-prepare or something like that
Nov 09 17:02:54 <zakkm> oh no its not theme specific
Nov 09 17:03:05 <Meizirkki2> no
Nov 09 17:03:15 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 09 17:03:34 <Stskeeps> then remove -mouse tslib for now, you won't be able to use touchscreen but you can still see if anything comes up on scren :p
Nov 09 17:03:50 <Meizirkki2> x-server-prepare exists
Nov 09 17:03:53 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 09 17:03:56 <zakkm> what are you guys trying to attempt?
Nov 09 17:04:06 <Stskeeps> run it, x-server-prepare start
Nov 09 17:04:33 <Stskeeps> zakkm: well if wiki was up i could show you.. but we're trying to see what happens if we reconstruct maemo from bottom up
Nov 09 17:05:02 <Meizirkki2> i am now chrooted...
Nov 09 17:05:05 <zakkm> your trying to "opensource" maemo?
Nov 09 17:05:06 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 09 17:05:17 <Stskeeps> zakkm: not really.. proof of concept
Nov 09 17:05:24 <zakkm> uh huh, at first? :P
Nov 09 17:05:36 <Stskeeps> we're not from nokia :P
Nov 09 17:05:45 <zakkm> but i mean thats what your trying to do ? be able to "edit" it?
Nov 09 17:06:03 <zakkm> be able to edit every little thing?
Nov 09 17:06:06 <Meizirkki2> shoult i add /etc/init.d/x-server-prepare to /etc/default/x-server.defs?
Nov 09 17:06:18 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: no, it's a script that sets pointer calibrations for you :)
Nov 09 17:06:24 <Stskeeps> (the first one)
Nov 09 17:06:25 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 17:06:42 <johnx> zakkm, the goal is to integrate Nokia's maemo GUI into the ubuntu distribution
Nov 09 17:06:43 <Meizirkki2> BTW trying to boot now :)
Nov 09 17:06:52 <Stskeeps> we're trying to see if it's plausible to make a OS like maemo that fits in 250m flash, but is as easy to port to as hildonizing an app
Nov 09 17:07:02 <Stskeeps> instead of fighting with platform oddities
Nov 09 17:07:09 <zakkm> use maemo on a desktop? isnt that what the sdk is for?
Nov 09 17:07:21 <johnx> quite the opposite, in fact
Nov 09 17:07:21 <Stskeeps> zakkm: this thing runs on tablet
Nov 09 17:07:32 <zakkm> you want to boot ubuntu and use maemo ?
Nov 09 17:07:45 <johnx> close enough :)
Nov 09 17:07:48 <zakkm> use ubuntu with like maemo "DE" on the nokia ?
Nov 09 17:08:03 <Stskeeps> we are trying to see if we can make a maemo OS with a ubuntu base system
Nov 09 17:08:14 <Stskeeps> with some changes to make it more mobile friendly
Nov 09 17:08:40 <zakkm> ah huh! changes :P
Nov 09 17:08:44 <zakkm> you just said proof of concept
Nov 09 17:08:47 <johnx> zakkm, exactly. and with maemo just being the "DE" we'd be able to swap in other DEs, such as lxde or kde, or windowmaker
Nov 09 17:09:03 <zakkm> ah cool
Nov 09 17:09:05 <zakkm> how's it coming?
Nov 09 17:09:18 <Meizirkki2> every time i chroot into ubuntu i have to flash bootmenu again to make linuxrc work :(
Nov 09 17:09:27 <zakkm> why would you want to use windowmaker XD
Nov 09 17:09:34 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: that's -really- weird O-o
Nov 09 17:09:47 <Meizirkki2> yep
Nov 09 17:09:52 <Stskeeps> zakkm: no idea if you can view this, http://jaiku.com/channel/reconstructedPOC
Nov 09 17:09:55 <Meizirkki2> now running fsck
Nov 09 17:10:09 <johnx> zakkm, you probably don't want to get into a discussion with me about windowmaker. not that I'll be angry, just that it would be long and boring for you :)
Nov 09 17:10:15 <GAN800> Jaiku is horrible
Nov 09 17:10:30 <Stskeeps> write something better
Nov 09 17:10:31 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 17:10:42 <zakkm> im sorry but the only reason windowmaker exists is cause its built into xorg XD
Nov 09 17:10:55 <johnx> zakkm, you're very confused :)
Nov 09 17:11:18 <Jaffa> very *very* confused
Nov 09 17:11:23 * qwerty12 gets to hildonising transmission. *sigh*
Nov 09 17:11:34 <zakkm> how: ?
Nov 09 17:12:42 <johnx> well, windowmaker isn't "built in" to xorg, and the concept that a window manager can be built in doesn't make sense really
Nov 09 17:12:50 <Jaffa> qwerty12: didn't someone already do that?
Nov 09 17:13:07 <zakkm> i meant bundled
Nov 09 17:13:08 <GAN800> Stskeeps, I hate having to follow it for updates.
Nov 09 17:13:08 <zakkm> with it
Nov 09 17:13:24 <johnx> zakkm, ok, that makes more sense, but it's not bundled with it
Nov 09 17:13:25 <GAN800> Jaffa, no
Nov 09 17:13:30 <Stskeeps> GAN800: i have it on mauku on my tablet as a small tv
Nov 09 17:13:30 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 17:13:39 <GAN800> Jaffa, it's a half-assed job
Nov 09 17:13:44 <zakkm> then how come everytime i install xorg, windowmaker seems to come with it?
Nov 09 17:13:47 <qwerty12> Jaffa, It's not hildonised :/. Pipeline adjusted the size of some gtk stuff to make it fix better. I took it, added an option to make it fullscreen and packaged it for extras. Seeing as now I'm the maintainer, I may as well try and improve it.
Nov 09 17:14:05 <zakkm> theres not even a  -nowindowmaker flag :P
Nov 09 17:14:35 <qwerty12> s/fix/fit
Nov 09 17:14:51 <Jaffa> qwerty12: ah, heh
Nov 09 17:14:52 <johnx> zakkm, why not pop over here and do some reading? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System
Nov 09 17:14:53 <lcuk> Stskeeps, i have it open on mauku as well :)
Nov 09 17:15:32 <zakkm> i do know what X is
Nov 09 17:16:14 <johnx> ah, just read your other message. windowmaker is totally unrelated to the x server project. It's just a window manager that satisfies the general requirement "window manager" of Xorg
Nov 09 17:16:26 <zakkm> yes but it comes with it
Nov 09 17:16:32 <johnx> no. it. doesn't.
Nov 09 17:16:45 <Stskeeps> zakkm: it's a sideeffect of your packaging system
Nov 09 17:16:46 <Meizirkki2> Xomap does not start :(
Nov 09 17:16:51 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: what error?
Nov 09 17:17:24 <zakkm> everytime, no matter what distro.. i installed xorg on, windowmaker seems to come with it
Nov 09 17:17:29 <Meizirkki2> i don't know, there is only white dot in top corner
Nov 09 17:17:38 <johnx> because it's the best window manager
Nov 09 17:17:40 <zakkm> even in gentoo
Nov 09 17:18:01 <qwerty12> johnx, I'm in fear of choking myself here :P
Nov 09 17:18:02 <johnx> the people who put your distro together *know* it's the best window manager and almost everyone will want it
Nov 09 17:18:02 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: well Xomap doesn't start anything
Nov 09 17:18:05 <Meizirkki2> I get into rescue menu and tried to start console
Nov 09 17:18:16 <Stskeeps> you need to start some app afterwards
Nov 09 17:18:25 <johnx> qwerty12, ah, just join in. :)
Nov 09 17:18:28 <zakkm> johnx: your a ratpoison fan arent you?
Nov 09 17:18:41 <qwerty12> johnx, :)
Nov 09 17:18:43 <johnx> no, because that's a bad window manager
Nov 09 17:18:48 <johnx> I like good window managers :)
Nov 09 17:18:57 <ShadowJK_> windowmaker doesn't come by default in fedora...
Nov 09 17:19:02 <ShadowJK_> nor in debian
Nov 09 17:19:20 <zakkm> its not a choice for login window's
Nov 09 17:19:31 <zakkm> but i still say its there
Nov 09 17:19:31 <qwerty12> ratpoison looks worse than even twm
Nov 09 17:19:37 <ShadowJK_> zakkm, nope
Nov 09 17:19:42 <Stskeeps> zakkm: the windowmanager conspiracy, eh
Nov 09 17:19:59 <Meizirkki2> Stskeeps: When i do not go into rescue menu display stays showing me linuxrc messages
Nov 09 17:20:00 * zakkm doesnt like anything thats not metacity or fluxbox ;p 
Nov 09 17:20:08 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: yeah, there's no splash
Nov 09 17:20:09 <johnx> it turns out that people can say a lot of things that aren't true :)
Nov 09 17:20:13 * lcuk keeps pondering sliding xv rendering behind a windowmanager
Nov 09 17:20:24 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: so console is only way to get some output and then run X later
Nov 09 17:20:34 <Meizirkki2> But Xomap is still running?
Nov 09 17:20:43 <Stskeeps> Xomap isn't started automatically
Nov 09 17:20:45 <Stskeeps> system is
Nov 09 17:21:28 <Meizirkki2> when i go to rescue menu and select console there is only white cursor in top corner
Nov 09 17:21:47 <Meizirkki2> so if i add something in rc.local it should start?
Nov 09 17:21:55 <Stskeeps> you have usbnet?
Nov 09 17:21:56 <Meizirkki2> after xomap
Nov 09 17:22:05 <Meizirkki2> yes
Nov 09 17:22:31 <Meizirkki2> what kind of usb net?
Nov 09 17:22:41 <lcuk> jaffa, whats an AST
Nov 09 17:22:46 <Stskeeps> as in able to telnet in from your machine ;)
Nov 09 17:22:55 <Meizirkki2> yes
Nov 09 17:23:27 <Stskeeps> apt-get install x11-utils, boot with usbnet, telnet in, Xomap :1 -andsoon &, export DISPLAY=:0; xmessage hi
Nov 09 17:23:32 <Stskeeps> and see if anything comes up
Nov 09 17:23:40 <Meizirkki2> ok
Nov 09 17:24:19 <Jaffa> lcuk: Abstract Source Tree. In-memory model of all the classes, namespaces, methods, variable etc.
Nov 09 17:24:31 <Stskeeps> johnx: why cairo btw?
Nov 09 17:24:42 <Stskeeps> specific patches from nokia?
Nov 09 17:24:48 <johnx> er, I thought it would be nokia optimized, but it's actually not
Nov 09 17:24:55 <Jaffa> lcuk: Needed to do proper code complete and (ultimately) refactoring and in-IDE navigation
Nov 09 17:24:57 <Stskeeps> alright
Nov 09 17:25:02 <johnx> also, trying to find things that don't require gtk
Nov 09 17:25:14 <johnx> suggestions welcome :)
Nov 09 17:25:21 <lcuk> cool, the sort of thing you can use to get database code generation and dynamic object creation of use from
Nov 09 17:25:35 <lcuk> nice jaffa, its things like this that come for free in vb :)
Nov 09 17:25:47 * lcuk has coded them up himself in the past as well
Nov 09 17:26:37 <lcuk> i gather the vala compiler wont throw this kind of stuff out for you then
Nov 09 17:26:45 <lcuk> vala --dump_obj_tree
Nov 09 17:26:47 <lcuk> ;)
Nov 09 17:26:57 <johnx> i wonder if sapwood is depending on any maemo specific parts of gtk
Nov 09 17:27:18 <qwerty12> ~burn pkg-config
Nov 09 17:27:19 * infobot pours gasoline all over pkg-config, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze
Nov 09 17:27:40 <zs> hi, enyone knows what's wrong with maemo.org?
Nov 09 17:27:41 <johnx> huh. pkg-config is usually the one I don't hate :)
Nov 09 17:27:50 <lcuk> zs, yeah - its not working
Nov 09 17:27:52 <johnx> zs, the servers are being moved
Nov 09 17:28:18 <zs> ok thanks
Nov 09 17:28:25 <qwerty12> johnx, I hate it with a vengance :P. Time to go back to the old fashioned way and hardcode header paths :P
Nov 09 17:28:31 <lcuk> physically moved as well, quim had to go in work on a sunday, pick up the 770 take it in his car to the new location..
Nov 09 17:28:52 <johnx> qwerty12, actually pkg-config in a makefile seems fairly sane compared to autoconf, etc
Nov 09 17:29:35 <Jaffa> lcuk: libvala does expose one, but need to access that in Java, and also create appropriate indices for quick and efficient features people (I) want in an IDE
Nov 09 17:30:35 <lcuk> im using an ide which does it differently without trying to build up a full mega list, it simply builds up a token tree of everything encountered (plus the stuff from pre-compiled library definitions) and then just offers those
Nov 09 17:31:29 <lcuk> works for 99% and would probably be simpler to implement, at least in the short term
Nov 09 17:31:37 <johnx> ok dbus should be a safe target
Nov 09 17:33:13 * lcuk had forgotten how pretty mandelbrot was
Nov 09 17:34:12 <Stskeeps> johnx: yeah, im wondering what dbus things nokia did, seems like there's a bunch of patches that's definately not in upstream..
Nov 09 17:34:34 <johnx> and it doesn't depend on gtk, so I figure it's a good candidate
Nov 09 17:34:59 <Jaffa> lcuk: similar to whatI've done already in Valable. Doesn't do the built-in library stuff, which is what I want to learn new APIs without having to Google. Once I do it for libs, it should work for everything as a side-effect (I think)
Nov 09 17:35:37 <lcuk> are you creating this ide on the device or desktop?
Nov 09 17:36:57 <zakkm> is rotation easily added to my nokia n800 ?
Nov 09 17:37:32 <Jaffa> lcuk: Desktop; Eclipse plugin
Nov 09 17:38:33 <GAN800> outpo.st/rotate
Nov 09 17:39:15 <lcuk> jaffa, Val(a)IDE says it supports a symbols browser, have you looked at how it gets it (its vala built isnt it?)
Nov 09 17:39:58 <zakkm> should i do the kernel with rotation and 48MHz patch?
Nov 09 17:39:58 <disco_stu> zakkm: rotation is very simple to install in Diablo
Nov 09 17:40:22 <zakkm> http://outpo.st/rotate/rotation-support-n800.install <-- is a deb possible.. i dont have wifi atm ?
Nov 09 17:40:33 <lcuk> 48mhz patch MAY cause your inserted mmc card to stop working
Nov 09 17:40:41 <Stskeeps> libhildon1 depends on osso-sounds-ui
Nov 09 17:40:41 <lcuk> (until you reflash back)
Nov 09 17:40:42 <Stskeeps> wtf.
Nov 09 17:40:47 <zakkm> i use 4gb SDHC?
Nov 09 17:40:48 <Jaffa> lcuk: It uses ctags, which is part of what I already use. Started  hacking on Valable as it was only Vala IDE I could get running ;-)
Nov 09 17:41:04 <johnx> Stskeeps, is that circular?
Nov 09 17:41:09 <lcuk> heh i know that feeling jaffa
Nov 09 17:41:16 <zakkm> lcuk: i use a 4gb SDHC
Nov 09 17:41:29 <zakkm> stage 6 SDHC.. 22mb read.. 10mb write
Nov 09 17:41:38 <lcuk> zakkm, dunno, mine failed, yours might work
Nov 09 17:41:48 <zakkm> whats the patched xserver?
Nov 09 17:41:55 <zakkm> on outpo.st/rotate
Nov 09 17:41:56 <Stskeeps> johnx: removing from depends, not needed for libhildon build atleast
Nov 09 17:42:01 <johnx> zakkm, it adds rotation support
Nov 09 17:42:08 <zakkm> oh thats what i want
Nov 09 17:42:08 <zakkm> :P
Nov 09 17:42:15 <johnx> zakkm, you need the kernel too
Nov 09 17:42:16 <zakkm> thats all i have to do is install that and i get rotation?
Nov 09 17:42:18 <zakkm> oh
Nov 09 17:42:19 <johnx> no
Nov 09 17:42:26 <johnx> you need everything
Nov 09 17:42:38 <johnx> you have a choice of kernels though
Nov 09 17:42:50 <zakkm> describe fail ?
Nov 09 17:43:01 <johnx> not be accessible
Nov 09 17:43:03 <zakkm> does it break the SD? ( i boot from SD )
Nov 09 17:43:14 <zakkm> corrupt it ? or just maemo cant read it?
Nov 09 17:43:25 <johnx> possibly corrupt the filesystem, yes
Nov 09 17:43:31 <johnx> just use the normal kernel on that site
Nov 09 17:43:40 <zakkm> ok
Nov 09 17:44:21 <zakkm> if i boot from SD, is there a way to connect to pc without having to reboot in flash?
Nov 09 17:44:36 <johnx> wifi or usb networking
Nov 09 17:44:50 <zakkm> damn
Nov 09 17:45:01 <zakkm> im on mac so usb networking doesnt work.. and dont have a wireless router
Nov 09 17:45:52 <johnx> does your mac have a wireless card?
Nov 09 17:45:59 <zakkm> no
Nov 09 17:46:03 <johnx> really?
Nov 09 17:46:05 <zakkm> hackintosh.
Nov 09 17:46:09 <johnx> ahaha
Nov 09 17:46:11 <johnx> I see
Nov 09 17:46:28 <zakkm> 100% hackintosh, costed me $82 on a motherboard -.-
Nov 09 17:46:56 <johnx> good for you, but any other OS and you'd have working usb ethernet :)
Nov 09 17:47:14 <zakkm> yeah i was going to install windows in virtualbox, i was told it would work that way
Nov 09 17:47:25 <zakkm> it works in linux?
Nov 09 17:47:26 <Stskeeps> lo lbt
Nov 09 17:47:33 <johnx> zakkm, yeah, really easy in linux
Nov 09 17:47:34 <lbt> phew
Nov 09 17:47:39 <Meizirkki2> Stskeeps: as you said: xomap works!
Nov 09 17:47:41 <zakkm> I install kernel, then xserver?
Nov 09 17:47:53 <lbt> just upgraded from a 32bit CPU to 64 bit - new mobo etc
Nov 09 17:48:03 <Meizirkki2> now trying to get u-m working :P
Nov 09 17:48:07 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki2: hehe, good luck
Nov 09 17:48:11 <lbt> clean install, clone debian, reconnect all my ldap....
Nov 09 17:48:20 <lbt> and it looks like it's working
Nov 09 17:48:25 <lbt> so "hello again"
Nov 09 17:48:35 <johnx> lbt, 32bit OS or 64bit?
Nov 09 17:48:49 <lbt> 64bit kernel, 32 bit OS (Debian)
Nov 09 17:49:18 <johnx> good plan :)
Nov 09 17:49:21 <lbt> I can live with a tiny performance hit for the ease-of use :)
Nov 09 17:49:26 <zakkm> if i boot from SD, where should i put my files?
Nov 09 17:49:41 <zakkm> should i chmod 777 /home ?
Nov 09 17:49:46 <lbt> and I have a phenon x3 now - so VMs should be better
Nov 09 17:49:47 <zakkm> and put in home directory?
Nov 09 17:50:08 * zakkm bought a E2180 pentinum .. the other day :P
Nov 09 17:50:28 <johnx> sure, just put them in your /home/user/MyDocs
Nov 09 17:50:36 <lbt> and during all this I've been upgrading my egroupware to 1.6 and getting caldav working.. and pulling the code for gpe-calendar
Nov 09 17:51:21 <lbt> so of course my current gpe-cal went nuts and now shows a gazillion repeats of a todo task and essentially freezes nut
Nov 09 17:52:01 <lcuk> lbt, what todo is it repeating?
Nov 09 17:52:02 <zakkm> unable to install kernel-diablo-flasher. incompatible application package.
Nov 09 17:52:13 <lcuk> "more cheese"
Nov 09 17:52:13 <lbt> "buy Cheese!"
Nov 09 17:52:16 <lcuk> :D
Nov 09 17:52:30 * johnx misses cheese :|
Nov 09 17:52:41 <Stskeeps> japanese doesn't have cheese? :P
Nov 09 17:52:54 <lbt> johnx: you need Shopper V2.2 with international shipping
Nov 09 17:52:58 <johnx> not too popular, so it's expensive and ultrapasteurized
Nov 09 17:53:09 <johnx> tastses funny :/
Nov 09 17:53:15 <Jaffa> Mmmm, cheese & bacon
Nov 09 17:53:46 <lcuk> but what kind of cheese realistically goes with bacon?
Nov 09 17:53:53 <johnx> cheddar
Nov 09 17:54:08 <lbt> bacon, mushrooms and Kraft cheese slices
Nov 09 17:54:22 <lcuk> i suppose the real answer is anything - bacon makes any meal nice
Nov 09 17:54:42 <lcuk> "dull, bland pot roast?   cover it with bacon"
Nov 09 17:54:47 <Stskeeps> except youghurt
Nov 09 17:55:02 <lcuk> baconnaise is almost yogurt
Nov 09 17:55:52 <lcuk> mmmmmmmm http://www.baconnaise.com/
Nov 09 17:56:35 <lcuk> my god im hungry now, i was gonna have fish n chips tonight, but now im not so sure
Nov 09 17:57:19 * johnx could go for some fish and chips at the nice little British pub downtown :)
Nov 09 17:57:32 <lbt> OK - how do I kill this window thingy...
Nov 09 17:57:46 <lbt> you know, the ones on the desktop
Nov 09 17:58:00 <lbt> can't remember their name...
Nov 09 17:58:11 <johnx> desktop applets?
Nov 09 17:58:16 <lbt> applets
Nov 09 17:58:25 <johnx> menu at the top, select applets
Nov 09 17:58:28 <lbt> ah
Nov 09 17:58:30 <lbt> yes
Nov 09 17:58:38 <lbt> that assumes the tablet is responsive
Nov 09 17:58:41 <lbt> :(
Nov 09 17:58:45 <lbt> I have ssh though
Nov 09 17:58:50 <lbt> but I have to be quick
Nov 09 17:58:53 <johnx> ssh in and restart hildon desktop
Nov 09 17:58:58 <lbt> it's at 99% cpu
Nov 09 17:59:07 <lbt> done that
Nov 09 17:59:13 <johnx> huh
Nov 09 17:59:24 <lbt> and the cpu is using the battery faster than the charger is putting it back
Nov 09 17:59:32 <johnx> reboot it
Nov 09 17:59:38 <johnx> reboot from a root shell
Nov 09 17:59:44 <lbt> each time I login/reboot the hildon restarts the applet :(
Nov 09 18:00:03 <lbt> and it goes to 100% cpu before I can disable the applet
Nov 09 18:00:15 <johnx> rename the .so for the applet
Nov 09 18:00:17 <lbt> ssh is still responsive - just not the gui
Nov 09 18:00:17 <Stskeeps> it's in .osso somehwere probably
Nov 09 18:00:52 <lbt> what dir? I'm afraid I've been away for too long...
Nov 09 18:01:21 <Stskeeps>  /home/user/.osso
Nov 09 18:01:25 <Stskeeps> the  conf for it
Nov 09 18:01:46 <johnx> ~/.osso/hildon-desktop
Nov 09 18:01:52 <johnx> grep for your troublesome applet there
Nov 09 18:02:01 <johnx> or just apt-get remove it
Nov 09 18:02:29 <Meizirkki> is this about ubuntu mobile?
Nov 09 18:02:46 <johnx> nope, just normal os2008 :)
Nov 09 18:02:53 <Meizirkki> ok
Nov 09 18:03:03 <lbt> ees gone!
Nov 09 18:03:17 <lbt> Thanks guys :)
Nov 09 18:04:18 <johnx> good deal
Nov 09 18:04:51 * Stskeeps re-runs libhildon compile for the third time after forgetting DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS
Nov 09 18:04:54 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 18:04:59 <zakkm> are you almost successful in maemo reconstruct?
Nov 09 18:05:21 <Stskeeps> some successes but we're still far off
Nov 09 18:05:52 <zakkm> any chance longer battery, faster speeds is part of this project? :P
Nov 09 18:06:05 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps talked about new nobile-basic-flash last night, Is it impossible for me to compile the new one? That way we should have working ubuntu-mobile-desktop...
Nov 09 18:06:35 <Meizirkki> *could
Nov 09 18:06:43 <Meizirkki> (whatever)
Nov 09 18:07:03 <Stskeeps> not impossible
Nov 09 18:07:14 <Meizirkki> ookay
Nov 09 18:07:17 <Stskeeps> just get adobe-flashplayer, then dpkg-buildpackage deblet-flashplayer
Nov 09 18:07:56 <Meizirkki> What about the new one that is based on python and GTK
Nov 09 18:10:14 <Stskeeps> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/
Nov 09 18:10:17 * RST38h moos
Nov 09 18:10:17 <Stskeeps> er
Nov 09 18:10:20 <Stskeeps> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/
Nov 09 18:10:34 <RST38h> Somebody is already running Ubuntu Mobile on the N8x0?
Nov 09 18:10:52 <Stskeeps> RST38h: Meiz had it in a chroot
Nov 09 18:11:01 <Stskeeps> but not 100% working
Nov 09 18:11:54 <RST38h> !
Nov 09 18:12:18 <Stskeeps> http://picasaweb.google.com/mail.deweb/n810#
Nov 09 18:12:20 <Meizirkki> there is no mobile-basic-flash on that page...
Nov 09 18:12:30 <Meizirkki> *the launchpad page
Nov 09 18:12:39 <Stskeeps> yeah, cos they stopped using it :P
Nov 09 18:13:05 <Meizirkki> It is kourou
Nov 09 18:13:21 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 09 18:13:24 <Meizirkki> is it?
Nov 09 18:13:27 <Meizirkki> ok
Nov 09 18:13:29 <Stskeeps> and you need a new hildon-desktop for that too
Nov 09 18:14:30 <zakkm> so much work :P
Nov 09 18:14:56 <Meizirkki> kourou source is only 16 kb!
Nov 09 18:15:12 <Stskeeps> python, yeah
Nov 09 18:15:12 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 18:16:03 <Meizirkki> so, what do i need, if i want to compile it with my ubuntu box (interpid)
Nov 09 18:16:24 <johnx> well, it's python. you don't need to compile it :)
Nov 09 18:16:39 <Meizirkki> Is it best to compile on tablet?
Nov 09 18:16:45 <zakkm> slower :P
Nov 09 18:16:49 <Meizirkki> when it is so small
Nov 09 18:17:51 <johnx> at this point compiling on your desktop will probably be somewhat difficult
Nov 09 18:18:04 <Meizirkki> yep, i have tried
Nov 09 18:18:09 <johnx> so yes, might as well try on your tablet
Nov 09 18:19:48 <lbt> http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PIM   ........    "crap.."
Nov 09 18:20:06 <johnx> ahaha
Nov 09 18:20:28 <johnx> yeah, servers on the moooove
Nov 09 18:21:00 <lbt> ah - that's OK then...
Nov 09 18:21:18 * lbt goes back to checking out his new toys...
Nov 09 18:23:42 <Meizirkki> will kourou have depency problems if i try to install it in hasty
Nov 09 18:23:58 <johnx> probably a couple
Nov 09 18:24:04 <Meizirkki> ****
Nov 09 18:24:19 <johnx> you'll likely need to get some packages from intrepid, compile from source, rinse, repeat
Nov 09 18:24:26 <johnx> but after that it should be ok
Nov 09 18:24:39 <johnx> I tried this before and it didn't work, but things might have changed since then
Nov 09 18:24:45 <Meizirkki> maybe i should leave u-m alone until mojo releases their version of interpid :(
Nov 09 18:25:16 <johnx> well, that's what I decided, but you should give it a shot if you want to
Nov 09 18:25:44 <Meizirkki> i'll wait, i have played enough with u-m
Nov 09 18:26:06 <Meizirkki> but hildon-desktop should be usable anyway
Nov 09 18:26:40 <Stskeeps> libhildon up
Nov 09 18:27:09 <johnx> dbus compiling :)
Nov 09 18:28:16 <Meizirkki> okay, i will try kourou, but if it has lot of depency problems i'll leavy it for now
Nov 09 18:28:36 <Meizirkki> *leave
Nov 09 18:29:32 <Stskeeps> uhoh.
Nov 09 18:29:40 * Stskeeps ponders if he just maimed his maemo
Nov 09 18:29:48 <johnx> eep
Nov 09 18:30:06 <Stskeeps> or got cool fremantle features..
Nov 09 18:30:14 <Stskeeps> i'll go for maimed
Nov 09 18:30:26 <johnx> what happened?
Nov 09 18:30:37 <johnx> which one did you pull from the wrong place?
Nov 09 18:31:06 <Stskeeps> think it just overwrote the l10ns and the -common package of gtk
Nov 09 18:31:31 <Stskeeps> if arm was armel it would be a lot worse ;)
Nov 09 18:32:00 <Stskeeps> ok, can't be that bad
Nov 09 18:32:07 <Stskeeps> locales and themes maemo doesnt use
Nov 09 18:32:20 <tekojo> Hi all, maemo.org is back online.
Nov 09 18:32:25 <Stskeeps> wee
Nov 09 18:33:01 <Stskeeps> lbt, saw http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed btw? that's what we're trying to work on atm
Nov 09 18:33:10 <Stskeeps> (a proof of concept of it
Nov 09 18:38:40 <tekojo> Stskeeps: sounds like it, but shouldn't you know better
Nov 09 18:39:04 <tekojo> Stskeeps: you're the one working on it :_)
Nov 09 18:39:21 <lbt> Stskeeps: it's on one of my 'permanently open' tabs...
Nov 09 18:40:15 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 09 18:43:51 * Stskeeps ponders what to have for dinner
Nov 09 18:45:14 <johnx> uhm, so where should I drop packages again? I've been putting them in public_html/packages
Nov 09 18:45:32 <Stskeeps> just drop them there and we'll put them in a repo eventually
Nov 09 18:45:38 <zakkm> Stskeeps: Junk food always works well :)
Nov 09 18:46:09 <Stskeeps> zakkm: yeah but after a week of it you get tired of it..
Nov 09 18:46:29 * qwerty12_N800 agrees with zakkm with a bag of chips from the local takeaway in me hand :p
Nov 09 18:46:48 <zakkm> qwerty12: what chips?
Nov 09 18:47:15 <qwerty12_N800> zakkm, large fries
Nov 09 18:47:22 <zakkm> oh
Nov 09 18:50:17 <lcuk> oooer Jaffa - you are the second person to follow me on twitter! but ive not made a single tweet there
Nov 09 18:52:04 <Stskeeps> johnx: best way to check packages is doing a file on the binaries
Nov 09 18:52:11 <Stskeeps> i've had my distcc make x86 binaries for me at some poine :P
Nov 09 18:52:15 <johnx> O_o
Nov 09 18:52:29 <johnx> I know it's not doing that, because I have a native ARM machine involved too
Nov 09 18:52:33 <Stskeeps> but then again the package building didn't finish
Nov 09 18:52:34 <Stskeeps> true
Nov 09 18:52:53 <johnx> anyways, I just ran the binary :)
Nov 09 18:53:14 <Stskeeps> and we discover the secret x86 mode of arm chips..
Nov 09 18:53:15 <Stskeeps> ;)
Nov 09 18:53:36 <johnx> well the pxa270 *was* an intel chip :)
Nov 09 18:53:42 <johnx> and it certainly runs hot enough
Nov 09 18:54:09 <Meizirkki> to get kourou working, i should compile python-hildondesktop and hildon-desktop-python-loader
Nov 09 18:54:30 <Stskeeps> okay, for some strange reason after adding maemo gtk and libhildon, we're now at 113mb flash
Nov 09 18:54:41 <Stskeeps> compared to 123 before
Nov 09 18:54:45 <johnx> huh
Nov 09 18:54:53 <Meizirkki> ok
Nov 09 18:54:59 <johnx> did you possibly replace an installed gtk with maemo gtk?
Nov 09 18:55:04 <Stskeeps> yes
Nov 09 18:55:23 <johnx> well, I guess Nokia *was* doing something right after all :D
Nov 09 18:56:29 <Stskeeps> i guess so too
Nov 09 18:57:15 * lcuk bangs his head against a wall
Nov 09 18:57:32 <Stskeeps> no bacon in the fridge, lcuk?
Nov 09 18:57:32 * GAN800 pads lcuk's wall.
Nov 09 18:58:07 <lcuk> heh, had fish n chips, but its a horrible miserable rainy sunday night
Nov 09 18:58:41 <lcuk> i dont normally get bored, but i feel so meh! tonight
Nov 09 19:07:12 <johnx> dbus-glib is building. getting some sleep for now
Nov 09 19:07:43 <Stskeeps> gnite
Nov 09 19:09:26 <johnx> 'night :)
Nov 09 19:18:20 <Jaffa> lcuk: heh
Nov 09 19:21:51 <lcuk> jaffa, i even managed to create a bog standard mandelbrot browser for my tablet (something ive wanted to do forever) but i cant get excited
Nov 09 19:25:47 <Stskeeps> mm, i usualy go stale in my excitement once the "cool new thing" factor wears off as well
Nov 09 19:27:11 <lcuk> Stskeeps, its just tonight though, normally im enthusiastic about lots of things
Nov 09 19:27:35 <lcuk> i *do* have lots of things i want to do, but no energy or motivation tonight
Nov 09 19:30:11 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 09 19:39:03 <Meizirkki> Now, i am debootstrapping again
Nov 09 19:39:23 <Meizirkki> this time i want to keep it small and clean
Nov 09 19:39:40 <Meizirkki> now i am not trying to install anything unneeded
Nov 09 19:39:57 <Meizirkki> but still want to use armv6
Nov 09 19:41:07 <Stskeeps> alright
Nov 09 20:12:53 <lcuk> has anyone ever written a spreadsheet viewer before?
Nov 09 20:15:04 <GAN800> Yes
Nov 09 20:18:00 <lcuk> GAN800, have you ? :D which format did you read? o
Nov 09 20:18:02 <lcuk> -o
Nov 09 20:32:39 <RST38h> lcuk: Use csv
Nov 09 20:32:57 <RST38h> You really do not want to read Excel formats
Nov 09 20:33:26 <lcuk> heh RST38h, im just curious really, not about a specific format (its not even for a spreadsheet) im interested in the cell based lookups and specific backend optimizations for such
Nov 09 20:33:40 <RST38h> http://exiledonline.com/watching-them-squirm-fox-news-abandons-the-mob-it-created
Nov 09 20:33:55 <RST38h> Hehe
Nov 09 20:34:20 <lcuk> ie, is it enough to have a database and for each cell as rendered do a lookup for items in the area, or do you need specific optimizations
Nov 09 20:34:28 <RST38h> lcuk: Could you explain (for the idiot in me) what exactly you want to do?
Nov 09 20:34:33 <lcuk> i suppose ill look into maptile algorithms
Nov 09 20:34:40 <RST38h> Ok, I see
Nov 09 20:35:18 <RST38h> The data type you are dealing with is known as a sparse array (see Google)
Nov 09 20:35:45 <lcuk> :) thanks rst
Nov 09 20:35:48 <RST38h> When rendering it, you basically want to get all elements in a rectangular range corresponding to the displayed area
Nov 09 20:36:19 <RST38h> If I were doing it, I would probably use some kind of a tree, a quadtree most likely
Nov 09 20:36:21 <lcuk> yeah - i do that for other projects
Nov 09 20:36:30 <lcuk> but the granuality is a bit lower for what im trying to do
Nov 09 20:36:44 <lcuk> loading and preparing that will be a killer time wise
Nov 09 20:36:50 <RST38h> The quadtree will handle the granularoity just fine
Nov 09 20:37:44 <RST38h> "My friend, wait until 11 or 12 Eastern time before drawing any conclusions, by then you will see the Palin landslide!!" (on mushrooms, no doubt)
Nov 09 20:38:24 <RST38h> lcuk: Take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R*_tree
Nov 09 20:38:55 <RST38h> R*Trees are somewhat of black magic (i.e. no optimal algorithms for building them exist to my knowledge( but they will do the job
Nov 09 20:40:55 <lcuk> yeah, ill just read from database as im used to, but i might keep granuality at a week level
Nov 09 20:40:59 <lcuk> instead of the planned day
Nov 09 20:46:47 <lcuk> RST38h, is a 14mb video too much, ill show you what i want it for
Nov 09 20:58:38 <blackdeath> hello
Nov 09 20:59:12 <blackdeath> has anyone been able to port any bluetooth hacking tools for the n810?
Nov 09 21:05:40 <Meizirkki-n810> what is depmod?
Nov 09 21:06:46 <citylights> hello
Nov 09 21:07:33 <RST38h> lcuk: it will take a while to transfer 14mb
Nov 09 21:07:39 <qwerty12_N800> generates a modules.dep so modprobe <module> can be used instead of insmoding repeatdly a module & it's dependencices
Nov 09 21:07:44 <RST38h> lcuk: so, just tell in plain old fashioned english =)
Nov 09 21:09:21 <citylights> how to fix this: i cant change the programs order in th application men
Nov 09 21:09:25 <citylights> gue
Nov 09 21:09:45 <citylights> guess .desktop is lost
Nov 09 21:13:15 <citylights> can i generate this to fix
Nov 09 21:13:50 <citylights> .. good my gf is asleep
Nov 09 21:50:14 <Stskeeps> hm, is https://stage.maemo.org/viewcvs.cgi/projects/email/osso-email/trunk/?root=maemo the chinook mail app?
Nov 09 21:50:21 <Stskeeps> who's forward porting it? :P
Nov 09 21:51:17 <GAN800> Nobody?
Nov 09 21:51:21 <Stskeeps> aw :P
Nov 09 21:51:24 * Stskeeps liked the old one better
Nov 09 21:51:55 <GAN800> File bugs and/or patch Modest.
Nov 09 21:51:57 <Proteous> me took the old one out behind the barn and shot it
Nov 09 21:52:22 <GAN800> You mean "I". :P
Nov 09 21:55:49 <Navi> or /me
Nov 09 21:56:46 <citylights> 8
Nov 09 22:19:41 <Anon6022> ...
Nov 09 22:19:50 <Anon6022> ...
Nov 09 22:20:04 <Anon6022> :dito:
Nov 09 22:20:07 <Anon6022> :inca:
Nov 09 22:20:14 <Anon6022> :ciao::(
Nov 09 22:20:27 <Stskeeps> aand that was a drive by wtf
Nov 09 22:20:27 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 09 22:21:33 <`0660> :)
Nov 09 22:21:53 <lopz> #openwrt
Nov 09 22:22:41 <lopz> hola
Nov 09 22:55:26 <lardman> evening
Nov 09 22:55:36 <lardman> who's clobbered this page? http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PIM
Nov 09 22:56:25 <Jaffa> Broken cos of the server move?
Nov 09 22:56:42 <Jaffa> Ah. Perhaps not.
Nov 09 22:57:32 <lcuk> i was the last to modify it on 2nd nov
Nov 09 22:57:43 <lardman> http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Task:PIM&oldid=8389 is apparently the latest version
Nov 09 22:57:44 <lcuk> (diff) (hist) . . Task:PIM‎; 19:47 . . (-33) . . lcuk (Talk | contribs) (→General/shared features:  )
Nov 09 22:57:45 <lardman> strange
Nov 09 22:57:56 <lcuk> but all modifications are showing like this
Nov 09 22:58:02 <lcuk> its just that page as well
Nov 09 22:58:13 <lcuk> i wasnt aware there was a way to remove a template from a page
Nov 09 22:58:23 <lardman> yeah, I was wondering about that
Nov 09 22:58:24 <lcuk> perhaps this is a slip from outside our control
Nov 09 22:58:50 <proto> yo people
Nov 09 22:58:50 <lardman> well let's just blame lcuk as he did the last edit hey? ;)
Nov 09 22:58:53 <lcuk> someone looking in the database from the backend and screwed something up and this is the wiki software failure mode
Nov 09 22:58:58 <lcuk> "this error should not be seen"
Nov 09 22:59:42 <lcuk> hey - you really think i would admit i was last editor if i'd goosed it :P ( i looked here btw http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Special:Recentchanges&limit=500 )
Nov 09 22:59:54 <lcuk> its right at the bottom
Nov 09 23:00:19 <lardman> http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Task:PIM&action=history
Nov 09 23:01:38 <lcuk> http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Task:PIM&curid=1310&diff=8389&oldid=8388
Nov 09 23:01:49 <lcuk> diffs are showing
Nov 09 23:02:11 <lcuk> it feels like this is the wikisoftare complaining about a missing node?
Nov 09 23:02:18 <lardman> yea
Nov 09 23:02:29 <lcuk> do we have the source?
Nov 09 23:02:35 <lcuk> is this midgard?
Nov 09 23:02:42 <lardman> pass
Nov 09 23:04:12 <lcuk> ahhh, its MediaWiki  	1.12.0
Nov 09 23:04:22 <lcuk> 2008-10-02: 1.13.2, 1.12.1 released ;)
Nov 09 23:04:56 <lcuk> oooer, that was for a security update as well
Nov 09 23:23:07 <GAN800> smokey from Tremulous?
Nov 09 23:31:50 <lardman> GAN800: you see the stuff earlier about the PIM page? Any thoughts?
Nov 09 23:55:07 <GAN800> lardman, where?
Nov 09 23:55:25 <lardman> exactly an hour ago
Nov 09 23:55:58 <GAN800> where != when. :P
Nov 09 23:56:35 <lardman> http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PIM
Nov 09 23:56:43 <lardman> sorry, thought you meant where in the logs
Nov 09 23:57:09 <GAN800> An hour ago here in IRC?
Nov 09 23:57:34 <lardman> yes, I asked why its sole contents are now "crap..."
Nov 09 23:57:49 <GAN800> They're not
Nov 09 23:57:57 <GAN800> That's Squid crapping out
Nov 09 23:58:05 <GAN800> Works ok now
Nov 09 23:58:29 <lardman> ah ok, still crap for me ;)
Nov 09 23:59:09 <lardman> not the most useful of error messages I've got to say
Nov 10 00:00:33 <GAN800> Yeah. :/
Nov 10 00:00:51 <GAN800> Squid really shouldn't be on for the wiko anyway.
Nov 10 00:02:04 <Navi> ew\
Nov 10 00:02:19 <GAN800> Hi, Navi. :)
Nov 10 00:02:22 <disco_stu> Hi
Nov 10 00:02:26 <Navi> Navi? Where?
Nov 10 00:02:38 <GAN800> Hello, disco_stu
Nov 10 00:02:44 <disco_stu> someone with backlight problems ?
Nov 10 00:03:01 <disco_stu> i just found in mine :(
Nov 10 00:04:11 <GAN800> backlight problems?
Nov 10 00:05:04 <disco_stu> well.. my n800's screen has a verticarl rectangle in the center of the screen, that is dimmer than the rest of the screen
Nov 10 00:05:22 <GAN800> center? bizarre
Nov 10 00:05:46 <disco_stu> its a perfect rectangle
Nov 10 00:06:42 <GAN800> picture?
Nov 10 00:06:43 <disco_stu> i'm taking a pic
Nov 10 00:10:12 <disco_stu> GAN800: there you go
Nov 10 00:10:12 <disco_stu> http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01230dn9.jpg
Nov 10 00:12:50 <lardman> what type of backlight is it?
Nov 10 00:12:59 <lardman> looks like a strip has failed, or is on the way?
Nov 10 00:13:53 <disco_stu> hope it doesnt get worse
Nov 10 00:14:10 <disco_stu> cause im in argentina, and here there is no tech service
Nov 10 00:14:10 <lcuk> change to a dark theme so its not as noticable?
Nov 10 00:14:27 <disco_stu> in the dark and extreme white it is not noticeable
Nov 10 00:14:29 <lardman> must be summer there too, so no need for the backlight ;)
Nov 10 00:19:45 <lardman> hmm, enough looking at random crap on the internet, time to go to bed
Nov 10 00:19:58 <lardman> night all, till the morrow
Nov 10 00:43:33 * qole tests new N800 xchat install
Nov 10 00:45:41 <lcuk> its broken
Nov 10 00:46:23 <qole> thanks, you just verified the opposite...
Nov 10 00:46:41 <lcuk> damn!
Nov 10 00:46:43 <lcuk> how you doin
Nov 10 00:47:09 <qole> getting by...
Nov 10 00:47:42 <lcuk> ahhh, is that secret code for "need more absinthe"
Nov 10 00:47:47 <qole> I'm thankful nothing I'm responsible for  is broken
Nov 10 00:48:16 <lcuk> yeah, that sounds ominous enough thou
Nov 10 00:48:38 <qole> After a release, there's a week of emergencies
Nov 10 00:48:51 <qole> two weeks of mop-up
Nov 10 00:49:03 <lcuk> heh, i know that one ;)
Nov 10 00:49:10 <lcuk> just getting back into the swing after the summit
Nov 10 00:49:40 <qole> and another two weeks of random WTF questions
Nov 10 00:50:09 <qole> The summit seems like last year already.
Nov 10 00:50:10 <lcuk> heh
Nov 10 00:50:22 <lcuk> it does :(
Nov 10 00:51:40 <lcuk> areyou gearing up for xmas now
Nov 10 00:52:17 <lcuk> tracy has bought most things already
Nov 10 00:52:32 <lcuk> its super strange cos we dont normally so early
Nov 10 00:52:40 <qole> I think I'm going to do a maemo post about using the tablet like a laptop... without knowing how to gain root
Nov 10 00:53:14 <lcuk> in what way do you mean?
Nov 10 00:55:11 <qole> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=240216#post240216
Nov 10 00:57:53 <lcuk> qole, i think simply using their 810 like a laptop is good enough reason to write another post :D
Nov 10 00:57:53 <qole> Haven't started thinking about Christmas, just finished editing our Hallowe'en video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9174804504187422010&hl=en
Nov 10 00:59:13 <lcuk> heh qole
Nov 10 00:59:56 <qole> I'd like to set up a hypothetical situation where someone gets a Word doc as an e-mail attachment...
Nov 10 01:00:12 <qole> hm, even better, maybe a powerpoint presentation
Nov 10 01:00:55 <lcuk> is your wife wearing a wig or is that her natural color?
Nov 10 01:01:12 <qole> then the person procedes to open the attachment with OpenOffice
Nov 10 01:01:35 <qole> wig
Nov 10 01:02:42 <lcuk> cool :D
Nov 10 01:02:56 <qole> oh yeah I guess I just posted a link to my family Hallowe'en video on a publically logged IRC channel... d'oh.
Nov 10 01:03:19 <Proteous> the bigest DOH is uploading a private family link to google video...
Nov 10 01:03:22 <lcuk> yeah, but its on a publically accessible server
Nov 10 01:04:17 <lcuk> you could remove and reup it with a different url
Nov 10 01:05:16 <qole> it isn't searchable, so theoretically, until now, nobody would have found it...
Nov 10 01:06:33 <qole> just for anyone reading these logs, it's nothing interesting, just my 3 year old going trick or treating for the first time
Nov 10 01:06:48 <lcuk> heh
Nov 10 01:07:16 <lcuk> how much absynthe have you had tonight? :P
Nov 10 01:07:23 <qole> and don't go heh like I'm lying or something, now everyone's going to want to see it
Nov 10 01:07:47 <qole> it isn't even dinner time here on the west coast of North America
Nov 10 01:08:33 * lcuk didnt think you were lyin or anyfink :$
Nov 10 01:09:33 <bef0rd> I just saw it to check if you were lying
Nov 10 01:10:08 <lcuk> *facepalm*
Nov 10 01:10:45 * qole shakes his head
Nov 10 01:10:48 <bef0rd> hehe, kidding, nice video though
Nov 10 01:11:34 <lcuk> your little one is so much more advanced than jacob, hes a bit behind - catching up though :)
Nov 10 01:11:52 <qole> She's got her daddy's gift of the gab
Nov 10 01:12:44 <lcuk> yeah, luke was the same, walking and talkin before 1 basically, but jake is 6 now and hes very delicate
Nov 10 01:15:14 <jagernot> hi im working on a sound synth: http://www.poojyum.com/h ; pleased to know your thoughts
Nov 10 01:16:48 <lcuk> jaget
Nov 10 01:16:51 <lcuk> jagernot,
Nov 10 01:17:06 <jagernot> yep lcuk
Nov 10 01:17:19 <lcuk> im not downloading a random file called h
Nov 10 01:17:29 <lcuk> but your p/p project sounds VERY interesting
Nov 10 01:17:31 <jagernot> hmm ok
Nov 10 01:17:47 <lcuk> have you seen liqbase
Nov 10 01:17:49 <jagernot> thanks lcuk...
Nov 10 01:17:55 <jagernot> no..
Nov 10 01:17:58 <jagernot> will see now
Nov 10 01:18:06 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/
Nov 10 01:19:07 <lcuk> ive got a load of particle systems in mind and spend a great amount of time doing small apps like your /p/
Nov 10 01:19:13 <lcuk> are you using windows over there?
Nov 10 01:19:28 <qole> aaanyway, I'd like to showcase DBus Switchboard
Nov 10 01:20:19 <qole> show how you can associate any file type with any application
Nov 10 01:20:29 <jagernot> lcuk: that text scroll is fast
Nov 10 01:20:36 <lcuk> qole, go for it! anything which helps users feel at home would be perfect
Nov 10 01:20:39 <jagernot> pls check out my synth...i have a couple questions
Nov 10 01:21:34 <lcuk> jagernot, the synth is only one tiny fraction, the startup starfield is 2000 pseudo3d stars in realtime
Nov 10 01:21:49 <lcuk> i mean the text scroll sorry
Nov 10 01:22:01 <jagernot> yeah i noticed that star field
Nov 10 01:22:09 <jagernot> can i see your code?.. :)
Nov 10 01:22:16 <lcuk> yes, its all open
Nov 10 01:22:22 <jagernot> where where where
Nov 10 01:22:25 <lcuk> on garage
Nov 10 01:22:39 <lcuk> watch the video of the screen in use
Nov 10 01:22:47 <jagernot> yeah i saw it on youtube
Nov 10 01:22:48 <jagernot> nice
Nov 10 01:22:49 <lcuk> it does more justice than an empty install ;)
Nov 10 01:22:52 <jagernot> nice work
Nov 10 01:23:09 <lcuk> theres a more thorough runthrough on liqbase.net - my presentation at the recent summit
Nov 10 01:23:18 <qole> jagernot: Is there a better link you can give us?
Nov 10 01:23:47 <jagernot> well guys im genuine..pls check out my website http://www.poojyum.com/
Nov 10 01:23:58 <bef0rd> hey lcuk, just wondering, how can I get the sketches exported to SVG like http://liqbase.net/liqriver.php ?
Nov 10 01:24:09 <jagernot> im trying to port some of my synth http://code.google.com/p/din
Nov 10 01:24:14 <jagernot> to n810
Nov 10 01:25:02 <jagernot> i named the file 'h' cos its easy to type from shell
Nov 10 01:25:03 <lcuk> bef0rd, i will be releasing a new version in a couple of weeks.  im in the middle of some rearranging and shifting to a database for things, but part of what i want is proper svg export
Nov 10 01:25:16 <qole> jagernot: you name your projects with a single letter??
Nov 10 01:25:28 <jagernot> no i will call it boxar
Nov 10 01:25:32 <jagernot> but for testing
Nov 10 01:25:59 <qole> I guess it's a pc program?
Nov 10 01:26:02 <jagernot> im doing a very tedious way of developing
Nov 10 01:26:04 <lcuk> jagernot, are you in windows?
Nov 10 01:26:07 <qole> not a tablet program?
Nov 10 01:26:11 <jagernot> no its a tablet program
Nov 10 01:26:16 <jagernot> n810 program
Nov 10 01:26:26 <lcuk> no, i mean now - are you typing from windows? or linux?
Nov 10 01:26:31 <jagernot> i have the scratchbox, then copy to internal card
Nov 10 01:26:41 <jagernot> then type the app name from shell
Nov 10 01:26:44 <jagernot> im on linux
Nov 10 01:26:46 <jagernot> now
Nov 10 01:26:54 <jargon> any maemo.org admins here? http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware is not working - all i get is a page w/ the word 'crap..' :)
Nov 10 01:26:57 <jagernot> i dont use windows
Nov 10 01:27:00 <jagernot> :D
Nov 10 01:27:19 <lcuk> jargon, ahhh, lardman noticed that for one page earlier this evening
Nov 10 01:27:36 <lcuk> i thought it might be a database corruption and the code "crap.." is coming out of mediawiki, it sounds more likely
Nov 10 01:27:57 <lcuk> jagernot, damn i was gonna show you something
Nov 10 01:28:02 <jargon> lcuk, ok, i'm seeing a google cache - maybe i can get what i want done w/ that -
Nov 10 01:28:46 <bef0rd> lcuk, I see, thanks!
Nov 10 01:28:47 <qole> jagernot: synth is VERY COOL
Nov 10 01:29:03 <jagernot> hehe thanks qole for trying..just the beginning
Nov 10 01:30:01 <GAN800> lcuk, it's Squid
Nov 10 01:30:02 <jargon> lcuk, interesting , the link is working now...
Nov 10 01:30:11 <qole> yes, it would be neat to set the notes or something
Nov 10 01:30:22 <GAN800> Caching daemon is crapping out.
Nov 10 01:31:29 <lcuk> jagernot, is http://code.google.com/p/din/ == http://www.poojyum.com/h
Nov 10 01:31:37 <jagernot> not quite
Nov 10 01:31:50 <lcuk> whats it wrote in?
Nov 10 01:31:59 <jagernot> din is c++
Nov 10 01:32:10 <lcuk> and h?
Nov 10 01:32:15 <jagernot> h is c
Nov 10 01:32:26 <jagernot> its a n810 program if its not clear
Nov 10 01:32:32 <qole> jagernot: my wife just told me to turn it down :)
Nov 10 01:32:33 <jagernot> so u can try it
Nov 10 01:32:37 <lcuk> i am..
Nov 10 01:33:01 <qole> if you hit too many notes too quickly, there's some weird interference stuff going on...
Nov 10 01:33:03 <lcuk> whats the graphics in use? is it native x?
Nov 10 01:33:03 <jagernot> as i said im  still trying to work it out...im using pulse waves which distort
Nov 10 01:33:08 <jagernot> yes qole
Nov 10 01:33:13 <jagernot> no gdk
Nov 10 01:33:32 <lcuk> qole, interference is fascinating :) something to be tamed ;)
Nov 10 01:33:41 <jagernot> qole: thats right, im not happy about that..will fix it..think its because of the pulse waves im using
Nov 10 01:33:58 <qole> still, very sweet, nice to just play random stuff, you've set it up so it doesn't sound bad even just being totally random
Nov 10 01:34:01 <jagernot> qole: and why did ur wife ask u to turn it down
Nov 10 01:34:20 <jagernot> yes qole..its a pentatonic scale so whatever u play will sound in tune :D
Nov 10 01:34:24 <jagernot> each row is 1 octave
Nov 10 01:34:31 <jagernot> 5 rows
Nov 10 01:34:31 <qole> I had it too loud and was playing it in the middle of the kitchen
Nov 10 01:35:24 <qole> I'm just standing here in the kitchen chatting on my N800
Nov 10 01:35:37 <qole> drinking afternoon coffee
Nov 10 01:35:59 <jagernot> cool
Nov 10 01:36:00 <lcuk> aren;t nokias fun :)
Nov 10 01:36:12 <jagernot> my wife asks me to turn the volume down all the time lol
Nov 10 01:36:14 <qole> the MOST fun. Evar.
Nov 10 01:36:25 <lcuk> jagernot, well i have to say, you have impressed me :)
Nov 10 01:36:44 <jagernot> so have u lcuk ;)
Nov 10 01:37:16 <qole> jagernot: your synth is very nifty, but your naming scheme isn't the best ;)
Nov 10 01:37:23 <lcuk> agreed qole
Nov 10 01:37:36 <lcuk> jagernote :)
Nov 10 01:37:55 <jagernot> lol
Nov 10 01:38:00 <jagernot> i was thinking of calling it boxar
Nov 10 01:38:03 <jagernot> box guitar
Nov 10 01:38:29 <qole> One early feature I'd like to see is fullscreen. If you go fullscreen, the boxes either get bigger or there are more boxes (full octave)
Nov 10 01:38:30 <lcuk> call it whatever you like, but think people will have to install and remember what its called
Nov 10 01:38:32 <jagernot> it will bcome boxar qole and hopefully u wont remember the bad days
Nov 10 01:38:43 <jagernot> how do i go full screen..i want to
Nov 10 01:39:01 <jagernot> 2 things..i want to draw on the screen as its played...in the background....and go full screen.
Nov 10 01:39:13 <jagernot> right now i do idle function and it messes up the audio
Nov 10 01:39:29 <jagernot> so i stopped drawing while playing so the boxes are empty
Nov 10 01:39:29 <qole> I don't know how to do it programmatically, but I use wmctrl and xbindkeys to do it
Nov 10 01:39:43 <jagernot> hmm..programming
Nov 10 01:40:07 <qole> I'm just a hacker not a programmer
Nov 10 01:40:18 <lcuk> if you need to idle it sounds like your code is in the wrong place, you might be better with threading or changing where you process things
Nov 10 01:41:02 <jagernot> my audio is rendered in a thread
Nov 10 01:41:10 <jagernot> how are u doing ur scrolling?
Nov 10 01:41:16 <jagernot> the braking
Nov 10 01:41:29 <qole> I'm planning to put together a little hack package that will let you hit a key combo to fullscreen any tablet app, and make a pop-up keyboard available for all apps
Nov 10 01:42:07 <lcuk> is that any x11 app qole?
Nov 10 01:42:27 <jagernot> how do u go full screen lcuk?
Nov 10 01:42:31 <lcuk> jager, ive taken a lateral step and used the Xv YUV video mode - its the only method which allows fullscreen tearfree rendering
Nov 10 01:42:43 <jagernot> hey i want that!
Nov 10 01:42:44 <lcuk> fullscreen is a parameter of the XV library and x11 window
Nov 10 01:43:03 <jagernot> basically the idea is to light up the buttons as you play them
Nov 10 01:43:07 <lcuk> i can choose to be fullscreen or not (but that throws things out)
Nov 10 01:43:28 <lcuk> and fade as required?
Nov 10 01:43:49 <qole> lcuk: any app that can be fullscreened with wmctrl
Nov 10 01:44:05 <lcuk> qole, i meant the keyboards
Nov 10 01:44:11 <lcuk> it wouldnt work for lb
Nov 10 01:44:19 <jagernot> yep lcuk
Nov 10 01:44:26 <jagernot> each note will light up and fade
Nov 10 01:44:35 <jagernot> i have already done in opengl version on my laptop
Nov 10 01:44:43 <jagernot> its nice to look at gives good feedback
Nov 10 01:44:52 <qole> lcuk: just tried it, I can make liqbase windowed :)
Nov 10 01:44:52 <jagernot> i can do it in idle loop but that is messing up the audio thread
Nov 10 01:45:20 <lcuk> heh qole!  but did you notice that it was still taking 800*480 and shrinking it?!
Nov 10 01:45:35 <lcuk> only newest version automatically adapts
Nov 10 01:45:47 <qole> it is very weird, because liqbase grabs the whole touchscreen, even though it is windowed...
Nov 10 01:46:03 <lcuk> yeah, thats because of the xsp library
Nov 10 01:46:16 <lcuk> i should really stop that if i ever push none fullscreen
Nov 10 01:46:22 <qole> and yes, it looks like it is squished fullscreen
Nov 10 01:46:45 <lcuk> but im not so bothered for now, its not a user option
Nov 10 01:47:02 <jagernot> lcuk...what should i do..? :)
Nov 10 01:47:32 <lcuk> i dunno jager, i dont know how you are currently doing it
Nov 10 01:47:44 <jagernot> i use gdk
Nov 10 01:47:56 <jagernot> have drawn the boxes on expose_event
Nov 10 01:48:09 <jagernot> and trap button_press_event and motion_notify_event
Nov 10 01:48:41 <jagernot> i tried idle function to update the buttons but that affects the audio rendering...breaks
Nov 10 01:48:43 <lcuk> i dunno how gtk works, do you have a paint event
Nov 10 01:49:15 <jagernot> neither do i b4 2 days :)
Nov 10 01:49:20 <lcuk> heh
Nov 10 01:49:39 <jagernot> can i post a paint event ?
Nov 10 01:49:56 <jagernot> or get out of that main loop
Nov 10 01:50:48 <lcuk> i dunno, maybe in your mouse event you simply need to indicate you want to render
Nov 10 01:50:52 <qole> MPlayer can be windowed, but video disappears
Nov 10 01:50:59 <qole> only audio
Nov 10 01:51:06 <lcuk> then in the paint event (if there is one) you actually draw the boxes in the correct state
Nov 10 01:51:26 <lcuk> are you sure qole? i thought it was fine in windowsed
Nov 10 01:51:31 <lcuk> -s
Nov 10 01:52:14 <lcuk> yeah, im watchign anna abreu now
Nov 10 01:52:43 <jagernot> lcuk: i originally used the example code for using pressure sensitive touchscreen data.
Nov 10 01:52:49 <jagernot> that didnt use gdk
Nov 10 01:52:54 <jagernot> used X calls
Nov 10 01:53:19 <jagernot> do u know how to map the touchscreen coordinates to screen coordinates (800x480)
Nov 10 01:53:42 <jagernot> cos the values are not straight forward to map
Nov 10 01:54:02 <jagernot> that example was drawing circles based on pressure but it was putting the circles at the wrong place
Nov 10 01:54:36 <qole> lcuk: just reporting what happens when I try windowing it
Nov 10 01:54:37 <lcuk> xsp library is uncalibrated
Nov 10 01:54:55 <lcuk> yeah qole, surprised ppl are hacking :$
Nov 10 01:55:39 <lcuk> its a nice feeling :)
Nov 10 01:58:06 <jagernot> is it possible to get calibrated data?
Nov 10 01:58:31 <qole> I think mplayer works fine windowed, if you start it that way from the command line, but it doesn't handle being windowed on-the-fly
Nov 10 02:00:13 <jagernot> lcuk where can i find your code?
Nov 10 02:00:34 <lcuk> jagernot, i never founda way, i just recalbrated the equation it gives and ive not heard of any problems so far
Nov 10 02:00:44 <lcuk> garage project liqbase
Nov 10 02:00:53 <lcuk> https://garage.maemo.org/projects/liqbase/
Nov 10 02:01:07 <jagernot> cant read .deb file
Nov 10 02:01:12 <jagernot> .tar.gz?
Nov 10 02:01:15 <lcuk> svn
Nov 10 02:01:21 <jagernot> oh ok
Nov 10 02:01:25 <lcuk> https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=716
Nov 10 02:02:03 <lcuk> its a bit out of date, but theres nothing drastic - if you consider using anything let me know ill give you a hand
Nov 10 02:02:04 <qole> I *wish* other people would start using lcuk's code to add some of the neat features to their programs.
Nov 10 02:02:53 <lcuk> qole, i wish i didnt need any of it
Nov 10 02:03:05 <lcuk> but we need the features
Nov 10 02:03:37 <jagernot> yeah im looking to make my synth really hot
Nov 10 02:03:48 <jagernot> plucking based on pressure
Nov 10 02:03:53 <qole> I'd like to see liqGL, a software OpenGL renderer that renders to the YUV overlay
Nov 10 02:04:02 <jagernot> yeah me too
Nov 10 02:04:51 <qole> I saw an iPhone app that lets you play beautiful ambient music with the touchscreen, wherever you touch the screen it causes a visual ripple effect
Nov 10 02:06:47 <qole> jagernot: http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/10/review-brian-en.html
Nov 10 02:11:11 <qole> another blog about Bloom: http://www.intomobile.com/2008/10/09/brian-enos-bloom-iphone-app-wants-to-relax-you-while-composing.html
Nov 10 02:11:43 <qole> That's what the iPhone's got
Nov 10 02:16:32 <jagernot> qole thanks
Nov 10 02:17:05 <jagernot> but you will see that boxar will be better ;)
Nov 10 02:17:28 <jagernot> you can specify scale patterns, arpeggios etc...vaporware now but..
Nov 10 02:19:04 <lcuk> jagernot, i have to go sleep now, but get in touch with me tomorrow http://liqbase.net/fading.AVI
Nov 10 02:19:28 <qole> You gotta get a big name to be involved. See if Bono Vox can put his name on it.
Nov 10 02:20:13 <jagernot> i dont need a big name
Nov 10 02:20:22 <jagernot> this is free software
Nov 10 02:20:53 <lcuk> jagernot, watch the video..
Nov 10 02:20:59 <jagernot> yes lcuk
Nov 10 02:21:07 <jagernot> where r u in uk lcuk? im in uk too
Nov 10 02:21:21 <lcuk> where bouts?
Nov 10 02:21:31 <lcuk> manchester
Nov 10 02:21:36 <lcuk> sorry lol tired
Nov 10 02:21:43 <qole> lcuk: that video doesn't play on mplayer
Nov 10 02:21:48 <jagernot> wheres the code lcuk please
Nov 10 02:21:49 <qole> just shows a single frame
Nov 10 02:21:50 <jagernot> i want that!
Nov 10 02:22:13 <lcuk> that was 15 minutes with basically the same code, contact me tomorrow and we will see how best to use it
Nov 10 02:22:21 <lcuk> same code as svn
Nov 10 02:22:33 <jagernot> yes
Nov 10 02:22:35 <jagernot> we should
Nov 10 02:22:49 <jagernot> where do i start reading ur code
Nov 10 02:22:52 <jagernot> which file
Nov 10 02:23:17 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liqbase_testfeatures.AVI
Nov 10 02:23:24 <lcuk> ummmmm errr
Nov 10 02:24:06 <qole> lcuk: just downloaded it and played it, it works that way
Nov 10 02:24:16 <qole> doesn't stream properly :)
Nov 10 02:24:25 <qole> nice effect
Nov 10 02:25:30 <qole> wow, 15 mb on that second one
Nov 10 02:26:00 <lcuk> that ones nice for ideas ;)
Nov 10 02:27:05 <lcuk> jagernot, im too tired tonight to go through, just have a look.  newer modules created which use liqtile.h and have ->handler* event handlers  are best
Nov 10 02:27:36 <jagernot> ok see u 2morrow
Nov 10 02:27:46 <lcuk> mk_micro.c should be there, its the baseline framework for a gui window, sorry theres no docs :$ i write as i need to
Nov 10 02:27:51 <qole> there needs to be a liqbase team. lcuk makes new stuff, someone else puts it into useful apps.
Nov 10 02:28:13 <lcuk> yes i need to be off and away from trunk
Nov 10 02:28:19 <lcuk> anyway, gnite lads :)
Nov 10 02:28:26 <qole> lcuk is the artist who makes the pretty baubles, he shouldn't be forced to actually make useful apps
Nov 10 02:28:45 <lcuk> :)
Nov 10 02:29:03 <qole> it slows you down from making more pretty things
Nov 10 02:32:59 <qole> Dinner time, I'll sign off too
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 10 02:59:57 2008