**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 27 02:59:57 2008 Nov 27 03:00:31 I'm afraid I don't know very much about it Nov 27 03:01:23 Oh, all right, I guess maybe i have to read the source code Nov 27 03:02:17 depending on what you want to do, there might be a library already available Nov 27 03:03:32 I just what to playing some video and show the ui on top of it Nov 27 03:04:48 libxv might be good to look at Nov 27 03:05:51 But I'm not using X here, we are using directfb on n810 Nov 27 03:08:51 in that case you might want to look at the maemo mplayer source code. I believe it can output directly to the framebuffer, so it likely has similar code to what you're working on Nov 27 03:10:01 thanks a lot, i'll check that Nov 27 03:10:17 http://mplayer.garage.maemo.org/ Nov 27 03:18:13 anyone use one of these cases? Nov 27 03:18:14 http://cgi.ebay.com/NOKIA-N810-WiMAX-EDITION-GPS-PROTECTIVE-CARRYING-CASE_W0QQitemZ360107993505QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item360107993505&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 Nov 27 03:31:32 qwerty12_N800: You keep fixing bugs faster than I can Nov 27 03:32:24 yeah, he does that to everyone O_o Nov 27 03:32:39 It's not fair! I want to patch transmission Nov 27 03:33:46 you need to find projects he's not interested in and then don't tell him about them Nov 27 03:33:52 that's about the only way I think :) Nov 27 03:34:08 I would try to fix things when he's asleep, but I don't think he sleeps Nov 27 07:04:43 yawn Nov 27 07:06:05 morning qwerty12 Nov 27 07:06:14 hey, morning Stskeeps Nov 27 07:06:26 * Stskeeps retries building hildon-thumbnail Nov 27 07:06:40 doing things by the book sure takes time. Nov 27 07:11:27 qwerty12: what really confirms your intelligence is posts like this: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25216 Nov 27 07:13:14 Well, to be fair, he is 3 years younger than me :) Nov 27 07:13:34 (apologies if I come off as conceited) Nov 27 07:13:34 still Nov 27 07:13:36 :P Nov 27 07:14:19 but yeah, logs from 13 to 15 of me on irc was miles apart Nov 27 07:16:36 Anyone needs confirming his intelligence? Nov 27 07:17:01 hehe Nov 27 07:17:21 * Stskeeps had a lousy coder self esteem when he was growing up Nov 27 07:17:28 which is why i grew up to be a karma whore Nov 27 07:24:03 Do you at least do it for lulz? =) Nov 27 07:24:50 fame and fortune Nov 27 07:24:52 :P Nov 27 07:25:03 * Stskeeps curses ubuntu's old vala version Nov 27 07:26:44 dear GOD what am I doing awake Nov 27 07:26:57 no, wait. it's already 0930 EET Nov 27 07:26:59 nvm, continue Nov 27 07:27:14 what is average age of tableteers? seems young Nov 27 07:28:34 hahlobit: a poll on iTT seems like it's quite evenly distributed Nov 27 07:28:53 http://internettablettalk.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=80 Nov 27 07:29:51 i just turned 50 and hardly see these small letters in deblet's xterm :P Nov 27 07:30:38 hahlobit: ah, 50. I was just about to have my age crisis again. Nov 27 07:30:41 it isn't exactly optimized for small displays :P Nov 27 07:30:46 thanks for making me feel young. Nov 27 07:30:51 Myrtti: 40? Nov 27 07:30:59 * Stskeeps ducks from flying objects Nov 27 07:32:21 Myrtti: is young and beautiful Nov 27 07:32:33 * Myrtti starts to throw inanimate objects, starting from "Learning Python"-book to wrinkle cream bottles and huge scented candles Nov 27 07:32:57 hahlobit: thank you ^___^ Nov 27 07:33:36 oh, a learning python book wouldn't be bad :P Nov 27 07:35:33 * Myrtti chucks a bag full of guinea pig poo, emacs pocket reference and some feminist literature too Nov 27 07:36:09 hehe Nov 27 07:37:42 * Stskeeps puts on some slagsmålsklubben and gets ready for several hours of HCI report writing..:( Nov 27 07:37:58 Stskeeps: maemos gtk conflicts with lxdes packages :( Nov 27 07:38:05 Meiz_n810: thought so Nov 27 07:38:10 Meiz_n810: how btw? Nov 27 07:38:13 please do document Nov 27 07:38:17 check jaiku Nov 27 07:38:35 oh, you need to have the glib from maemo too Nov 27 07:38:47 maemo/mer Nov 27 07:39:03 (why of all things they didn't contibute that part to upstream, i'm not sure.) Nov 27 07:39:17 okay Nov 27 07:39:39 if its only that, i'll remove that jaiku? Nov 27 07:39:47 yeah, fine Nov 27 07:42:08 jaiku? jaiku? where is a jaiku? oh. Browser. Does it really show I've slept only two hours? no. sorry. Nov 27 07:42:22 * Myrtti sips more coffee Nov 27 08:19:04 * Stskeeps hums along to nine inch nails - la mer Nov 27 08:22:19 thank Gaia, I didn't kill the conversation Nov 27 08:23:03 i went to get coffee Nov 27 08:23:03 :P Nov 27 08:53:29 Morning, all Nov 27 08:53:45 morning Nov 27 08:54:38 morn Nov 27 08:55:18 Hi ! Nov 27 08:56:03 morning Nov 27 09:05:40 * Stskeeps ponders if mamona devel stalled completely Nov 27 09:10:30 Hehe, Nokia has announced the first crisis-related change of plans Nov 27 09:10:36 And the victim is... (guess) Nov 27 09:11:02 Hello Nov 27 09:11:34 RST38h: maemo? :P Nov 27 09:11:42 Incredibly, no Nov 27 09:11:48 Japan :) Nov 27 09:11:51 heh Nov 27 09:11:55 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/11/nokia-exits-japan.jpg Nov 27 09:12:04 X-Fade <-- read his Gizmodo, apparently Nov 27 09:12:24 RST38h: No, engadget ;) Nov 27 09:12:31 ah Nov 27 09:13:39 ...and Christmas in Somali: http://pics.livejournal.com/texconten/pic/0001tpqx Nov 27 09:14:04 japanese christmas, too Nov 27 09:14:29 Japanese is here: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3060/3046765685_f0f662d3bb_o.jpg (notice the difference: NO GUN) Nov 27 09:14:51 http://gizmodo.com/5099616/obama-looking-for-ways-to-hold-onto-his-blackberry <- talk about addiction.. Nov 27 09:16:12 Sts: The real question is: Is this going to be easier for him than making Congress declare war on Iraq? =) Nov 27 09:16:57 give him a tablet.. :P Nov 27 09:17:21 btw, not a bad solution Nov 27 09:17:36 at least if they have got a wifi router nearby Nov 27 09:18:21 blackberry ewwwww Nov 27 09:20:48 is it still Java only and uses text console for some of its apps? Nov 27 09:30:43 Myrtti, you do know they come in pink? Nov 27 09:30:56 inz: blackberry ewww. Nov 27 09:31:10 ^^ Nov 27 09:31:33 Asus One also comes in pink. I still want a Dell mini. Nov 27 09:31:38 or MSI wind. Nov 27 09:31:58 (which also come in pink) Nov 27 09:33:55 ooh, netbooks Nov 27 09:34:03 Myrtti: be sure to try the keyboard before you buy one Nov 27 09:34:23 i noticed some have really crappy (read: slightly too small) keyboards Nov 27 09:45:30 how can it have a large keyboard? Nov 27 09:45:44 just buy yourself a real subnotebook Nov 27 09:47:44 RST38h: well, of course it depends on the size of the netbook, but for example to 10" Acer One has a way better kb than the 10" Eee imho Nov 27 09:48:09 but maybe it was the 9" Eee i tried (they looked about as large though) Nov 27 09:50:49 only the LCD size changes Nov 27 09:50:57 they have all got a huge bezel though Nov 27 09:51:11 almost as ugly as Lenovo Thinkpads Nov 27 09:58:13 Aspire one has crap batterylife Nov 27 09:58:44 the Samsung NC10 seems really nice Nov 27 09:58:55 as in: decent design, *good* battery life Nov 27 09:59:06 * aquatix might get one Nov 27 09:59:09 I have a kohjinsha for myself, and if it has a 7" lcd screen, it has a really good keyboard for its size ... so, the size of a keyboard don't make the whole thing Nov 27 09:59:26 aquatix: Toshiba R600 Nov 27 09:59:54 aquatix: lighter than most "netbooks" and a real computer too Nov 27 10:00:20 http://explore.toshiba.com/laptops/portege/R600 Nov 27 10:02:08 * aquatix was looking at the Dell XPS M1330 yesterday Nov 27 10:02:14 13" regular laptop Nov 27 10:02:21 comes with Ubuntu even :) Nov 27 10:07:01 regular as in "4+ pounds"? Nov 27 10:11:30 Weight: Starting at 3.97 lbs, Height: 2.31cm 3.38cm -- naaah Nov 27 10:13:46 yeah, but that's of course not the same class as a netbook Nov 27 10:14:03 Too heavy, too large Nov 27 10:14:04 it'll be an interesting candidate for replacing my 4.5 year old 15" laptop though Nov 27 10:14:11 well Nov 27 10:14:15 depends really Nov 27 10:14:28 Nope. 4lbs is too heavy :) Nov 27 10:14:39 Especially after you used a 2lbs laptop Nov 27 10:15:02 except that you can't work for 8 hours straight on a 2lbs laptop without inducing all kinds of pains Nov 27 10:15:16 i can work all day for weeks on this 15" machine Nov 27 10:16:16 I can Nov 27 10:16:36 The Porteges have a full sized keyboard, they are no netbooks Nov 27 10:16:55 Just very thin and light Nov 27 10:21:00 12"? Nov 27 10:21:09 that sounds ok Nov 27 10:21:18 they're a tad expensive though Nov 27 10:22:52 i also like the Samsung X360: http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/28/samsung-debuts-x360-lighter-than-air-ultraportable/ Nov 27 10:23:28 2.8lbs is fine with me Nov 27 10:27:47 RST38h: you have an ssd in yours? Nov 27 10:28:39 RST38h: what battery life does it have in real life btw? Nov 27 11:16:20 morning Nov 27 11:16:45 mornin' lardman Nov 27 11:16:55 hi johnx Nov 27 11:17:04 morning johnx Nov 27 11:17:11 ah, hello Stskeeps Nov 27 11:17:24 greetflood! Nov 27 11:17:42 co-co-combo braker Nov 27 11:18:00 rebasing to jaunty to see if somehow sapwood magically works on my zaurus now Nov 27 11:18:05 oki Nov 27 11:18:47 * Stskeeps is doing focus shift analysis for HCI course :( Nov 27 11:18:53 and compiling away on osso-gwobex Nov 27 11:19:43 and I might try to get bluetooth networking up on my wii. anything that just sits there in standby so often should at least be a build box Nov 27 11:19:52 hehe Nov 27 11:21:22 i'm getting closer to where you have the experience of the packages.. and i just made something to speed up armel builder a bit (disable man page building..) Nov 27 11:22:42 does that actually save much time? Nov 27 11:22:54 yeah, cos man page building tages ages Nov 27 11:22:58 i run with clean chroots so Nov 27 11:23:08 aaah Nov 27 11:23:20 yeah, that hurts, but you really need it Nov 27 11:23:21 the ways is basically, bzr branch , verify if they have autogen.sh, add autoconf, automake, libtool to build-dep's and make sure they call autoconf before ./configure, add changelog entry, bzr commit -m "change message", bzr push lp:~johnx/m-r/ .. and tell 'build lp:~johnx/m-r/ ' on #merbuilder Nov 27 11:23:26 yeah Nov 27 11:23:50 well it's obviously needed in user interfacing, but not in a buildd :) Nov 27 11:24:14 alright, I'll start picking up packaging again in a bit Nov 27 11:24:17 k Nov 27 11:24:20 thanks for the executive summary :) Nov 27 11:24:33 call autoconf = call autogen.sh Nov 27 11:25:58 ah, right Nov 27 11:28:47 i've had to resort to 3.0.9 of hildon thumbnail as the current package is a bit broken (and unreleased) Nov 27 11:28:57 woo, osso-gwobex done for armel Nov 27 11:29:17 i can recommend working out of a jaunty debootstrap on i386 Nov 27 11:29:20 in a chroot Nov 27 11:29:32 saves time in checking if things build /build-deps are satisfiable, etc Nov 27 11:33:14 <`Mace> good evening Nov 27 11:33:17 <`Mace> morning.. whatever Nov 27 11:33:19 evening Nov 27 11:33:23 mornin' Nov 27 11:33:25 <`Mace> hi Stskeeps Nov 27 11:33:52 johnx: also a bomb isn't always fatal on armel builder - sometimes there are just not any arch-dep package to build Nov 27 11:33:58 (i386 takes care of this) Nov 27 11:34:03 the indep ones Nov 27 11:34:22 <`Mace> my poor p3/500 is getting hammered right now :) Nov 27 11:34:28 hehe Nov 27 11:34:34 <`Mace> wait... DUAL p3/500 Nov 27 11:34:37 what are you doing to it? Nov 27 11:34:44 <`Mace> you don't even want to know Nov 27 11:34:58 <`Mace> :) too much.. little thing is a champ tho Nov 27 11:35:09 * Stskeeps is building quite a bit on i386 and qemu builder Nov 27 11:35:15 <`Mace> that reminds me.. i need to set up my n800.rancorous.net page Nov 27 11:35:22 `Mace: were you Macer or how was it? Nov 27 11:35:25 <`Mace> i was going to wait until january tho Nov 27 11:35:27 <`Mace> yes Nov 27 11:35:30 ah, alright Nov 27 11:35:54 <`Mace> apache is up and running.. i've just been a lazy bastard.. i was going to wait until my son left to stay with his mother Nov 27 11:36:15 <`Mace> it's hard to work on a web site when you have to watch a 2 yr old by yourself ;) Nov 27 11:36:30 hehe Nov 27 11:37:07 <`Mace> i have the vhost all set up. the dir and space is there.. i just have to make the actual site Nov 27 11:37:41 <`Mace> which i'm sure i'm horrible at :) Nov 27 11:37:48 <`Mace> it's probably going to look very bad haha Nov 27 11:38:00 gah.. power just went on my builder server Nov 27 11:38:01 #€"! Nov 27 11:38:08 <`Mace> heh Nov 27 11:38:12 and the rest of the hall Nov 27 11:38:12 <`Mace> that's why i got a monster ups Nov 27 11:38:31 `Mace: read what me and johnx and others are working on these days? Nov 27 11:39:50 <`Mace> not for a while.. i've kinda been out of things for a bit Nov 27 11:39:57 <`Mace> spending more time with my gf when i can Nov 27 11:40:07 hehe.. mine is home this week too Nov 27 11:40:10 <`Mace> you know... n800 or sex... it's an easy choice ;) Nov 27 11:40:33 <`Mace> mine is a chicago police officer Nov 27 11:40:45 <`Mace> she's actually at work now... pulling over thanksgiving eve drunks Nov 27 11:40:46 ..easy? :P Nov 27 11:40:55 <`Mace> haha Nov 27 11:41:06 <`Mace> for me it is :) i don't th ink i've touched my n800 in 2 weeks Nov 27 11:41:32 <`Mace> i was going to buy a popcornhour a-110 and n810 soon... i think it's time to retire the n800 Nov 27 11:41:51 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint , http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/hildon-desktop-gqviewxwd.png , http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i/ Nov 27 11:41:51 <`Mace> might just sell it to someone or put it up on ebay Nov 27 11:41:58 <`Mace> er Nov 27 11:42:04 -> Mer Nov 27 11:42:04 <`Mace> that's a lot of web sites :) Nov 27 11:42:08 er, Mace Nov 27 11:42:17 yeah, but brief to look through :P Nov 27 11:42:28 last page tells what Mer is Nov 27 11:42:45 <`Mace> Mer? Nov 27 11:42:48 yeah Nov 27 11:42:58 deblet successor, really :P Nov 27 11:43:00 Stskeeps: gqview \o/ Nov 27 11:43:09 aquatix: hehe, johnx's choice ;) Nov 27 11:43:21 my fave on the desktop/laptop Nov 27 11:43:27 <`Mace> why Mer? :) Nov 27 11:43:31 toolbar seems a bit off in that screenshot though Nov 27 11:43:51 `Mace: Ocean in french, or 'More' in danish.. or a reference to Nine Inch Nails - La Mer Nov 27 11:43:54 :p Nov 27 11:43:56 also Nov 27 11:43:57 we called it M-R before Nov 27 11:43:58 so Nov 27 11:44:23 (short for Maemo Reconstructed, which we can't call it.) Nov 27 11:44:39 Hmm, resolution of #3470 is intersting Nov 27 11:44:48 NiN \o/ Nov 27 11:44:55 sorry, i'm off to work again already ;) Nov 27 11:45:08 <`Mace> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/hildon-desktop-gqviewxwd.png Nov 27 11:45:13 <`Mace> that looks kinda ugly ;) Nov 27 11:45:14 * aquatix enqueues some NiN Nov 27 11:45:28 `Mace: not polished Nov 27 11:45:29 :P Nov 27 11:45:35 <`Mace> haha.. i figured ;) Nov 27 11:45:39 `Mace: the font is a bit large too Nov 27 11:45:41 <`Mace> so what has happened to deblet? Nov 27 11:45:57 `Mace: realization power management wasn't going to get better without acting like maemo Nov 27 11:46:16 <`Mace> so you are building ubuntu on top of maemo? Nov 27 11:46:25 nop, maemo on top of minimal ubuntu base Nov 27 11:46:39 we hope to be able to switch between maemo UI and desktop UI without issue Nov 27 11:46:46 <`Mace> you should do it the other way around like PB's kde install ;) Nov 27 11:46:51 `Mace, gqview isn't hildonized though I'd love it if someone did :) Nov 27 11:47:04 `Mace: that kde install is a hack :P Nov 27 11:47:11 in this case, it wouldn't require hacks Nov 27 11:47:17 <`Mace> heh.. but it works ;) Nov 27 11:47:34 also we want mer on other devices than nokias Nov 27 11:47:41 i386.. Maemo/Hildon on TV. ;) Nov 27 11:47:42 johnx: I second that Nov 27 11:47:43 <`Mace> everything is controlled by maemo.. kde only replaces the desktop Nov 27 11:48:25 and so you have all the same problems as maemo Nov 27 11:48:35 <`Mace> yeah i suppose Nov 27 11:48:46 <`Mace> but then again there are problems no matter what you use ;) Nov 27 11:49:24 <`Mace> PB's kde install basically turned the n800 into a desktop capable of running koffice Nov 27 11:49:41 of course. it's all about finding the compromises you're willing to make Nov 27 11:49:45 <`Mace> only reason i got rid of it was because there was no way to have a plain base install and add what you wanted .. he kinda lumped it into one giant install with everything under the son Nov 27 11:50:04 <`Mace> it printed with cups ;) heh Nov 27 11:50:26 <`Mace> if ooffice wouldn't murder an n800 it would be interesting to see how that would work Nov 27 11:50:46 eh, I even use abiword on my desktop these days Nov 27 11:50:56 * aquatix uses latex and gnumeric ;) Nov 27 11:50:59 <`Mace> heh Nov 27 11:51:07 * Stskeeps wouldn't mind a smart latex editor on tablet. Nov 27 11:51:10 and latex beamer to complete the suite Nov 27 11:51:10 <`Mace> there's a maemo install of abiword.. but maemo doesn't have much printer support Nov 27 11:51:14 Stskeeps: lyx? Nov 27 11:51:18 yeah, for instance Nov 27 11:51:20 <`Mace> it would be awesome if it did Nov 27 11:51:29 Stskeeps: or vim? :P Nov 27 11:51:31 but i wouldn't mind a keyboard either.. and i have a n800 Nov 27 11:51:37 aquatix: .. \'s are murder on on screen Nov 27 11:51:38 :P Nov 27 11:51:38 <`Mace> heh Nov 27 11:51:48 <`Mace> i got an su8w Nov 27 11:51:52 <`Mace> for the n800 Nov 27 11:52:10 <`Mace> you can actually type pretty easily on it considering its size Nov 27 11:52:23 `Mace: but anyway, the ability of Mer is choice of how you want to run your tablet, easy porting to the platform, .. etc Nov 27 11:52:25 Stskeeps: that's why i have an n810 :) Nov 27 11:52:30 and a bluetooth kb Nov 27 11:52:35 if you want hildon you can have it, if you want KDE, you can .. etc Nov 27 11:52:48 <`Mace> i see Nov 27 11:52:55 <`Mace> well. it will be interesting to see how it comes along Nov 27 11:53:00 yup Nov 27 11:53:05 <`Mace> and if you give me some time i'll put up a site for you to use Nov 27 11:53:06 <`Mace> ;) Nov 27 11:53:15 <`Mace> i have 4TB to spare haha Nov 27 11:53:32 <`Mace> well.. maybe not that muh.but i can proably give yu 1 or 2 ;) Nov 27 11:53:58 we can probably always use qemu hosts or repo mirrors Nov 27 11:54:12 mine is on a 2/1mbit, so :P Nov 27 11:54:24 <`Mace> don't know how well qemu would work on fbsd ;) Nov 27 11:54:28 fine, i think Nov 27 11:54:31 <`Mace> i don't have any linux boxes Nov 27 11:54:32 <`Mace> heh Nov 27 11:54:39 <`Mace> i can make one if it's important Nov 27 11:54:45 <`Mace> on my esx box Nov 27 11:54:59 all qemu wants is gobs and gobs of processing power :) Nov 27 11:54:59 maybe, - if our queues get too large on the builder Nov 27 11:55:00 s Nov 27 11:55:54 <`Mace> johnx then that box probably won't do too well for it Nov 27 11:56:04 <`Mace> i might swap my desktop box and the other one.. i have 2 of these things Nov 27 11:56:21 <`Mace> but this one has a core2duo 2.8GHz .. other one has a dual core intel 2G Nov 27 11:56:24 qemu is what makes me want to go to a dual core Nov 27 11:56:43 <`Mace> not to mention it's running a zimbra vm on it ;) Nov 27 11:56:47 i've considered making my work n800 a builder, but.. :P Nov 27 11:56:52 it would probably choke badly Nov 27 11:56:54 <`Mace> the web server... and uhm... something else but i forgot Nov 27 11:57:11 <`Mace> it would probably be horrible Nov 27 11:57:24 <`Mace> i'll make a debian vm.. you can have root on it if you'd like Nov 27 11:57:26 well, i build on a qemu arm as well. :P Nov 27 11:58:12 <`Mace> once i get a chance i'm going to swap hard drives and give the esx box the stronger shuttle Nov 27 11:58:19 <`Mace> http://lasziv.reprehensible.net/~macer/Shuttle/ Nov 27 11:58:27 I honestly think my n800 is faster for builds than qemu on an athlon 64 @ 1.8GHz Nov 27 11:58:31 <`Mace> i have 2 of those.. i skimpped on the cpu for the first one Nov 27 11:59:09 <`Mace> as a matter of fact.. i'll start working on installing debian on it now Nov 27 11:59:13 those are nice little machines :) I'm thinking about getting one to replace my desktop eventually Nov 27 11:59:34 <`Mace> heh.. only thing that sucks is if you want an internal slim optical drive Nov 27 11:59:42 <`Mace> you have to laser cut a hole in the plastic panel in front Nov 27 11:59:54 * Stskeeps rarely uses cd these days Nov 27 11:59:57 eh, no interest in CDs Nov 27 11:59:57 <`Mace> (which wold probably work the best as far as neatness) Nov 27 12:00:10 <`Mace> heh.. you'd be suprised tho Nov 27 12:00:17 <`Mace> it sucks when you need it that one time ;) Nov 27 12:00:21 usb :P Nov 27 12:00:25 I'll keep around an old machine Nov 27 12:00:29 <`Mace> i don't have a usb optical drive Nov 27 12:00:36 <`Mace> but i'm going to get one just for this damn thing heh Nov 27 12:00:55 <`Mace> if you want to run esx on it though.. y ou'll need to get an intel server nic Nov 27 12:00:57 I'd like a pci-express x16 slot. I really enjoy having a fast graphics card if only for compiz and google earth :) Nov 27 12:01:02 <`Mace> just giving you a warning ;) Nov 27 12:02:02 <`Mace> they make for nice little servers. i don't know about desktop machines tho.. i am running vista on the one i'm on now Nov 27 12:02:10 <`Mace> i suppose it goes fast enough Nov 27 12:02:48 <`Mace> i really like esxi tho.. works pretty well Nov 27 12:03:01 * Stskeeps wouldn't mind an integration of esx and qemu Nov 27 12:03:08 with some instances being other processors Nov 27 12:04:12 <`Mace> i'm working on building the debian vm now Nov 27 12:04:17 sounds good Nov 27 12:04:19 <`Mace> i hope i can just swap out hard drives Nov 27 12:04:33 <`Mace> and put the other hard drive in the stronger shuttle.. i don't see why i wouldn't be able to but you never know Nov 27 12:05:39 should be fine Nov 27 12:13:12 Stskeeps, did you have a script for debootstrapping into jaunty or should I just do it by hand? Nov 27 12:13:20 sec Nov 27 12:13:20 lcuk: you about? Nov 27 12:13:45 johnx: arm or x86? Nov 27 12:13:52 n800 Nov 27 12:14:07 just by hand i guess, debootstrap from jaunty rep Nov 27 12:14:24 ah, ok already done, then I'll just borrow the linuxrc from deblet Nov 27 12:14:29 k Nov 27 12:14:55 <`Mace> hm Nov 27 12:15:03 <`Mace> ok. i'm going to have to put a different hd in this thing :) Nov 27 12:15:37 <`Mace> i have a 1TB sata drive lying around... i'll wait until friday to do everything Nov 27 12:15:47 <`Mace> this is what i get for putting an 80G drive in it haha Nov 27 12:16:08 johnx: we should probably also discuss how to handle multi-arch stuff, for n800 we'd have n8x0-initfs-compat or something for boot basics :P Nov 27 12:19:28 the good news is I think the n8x0 is the only device that needs that sort of thing Nov 27 12:19:42 on other platforms it would just be convenience packages Nov 27 12:19:45 yeah Nov 27 12:20:00 and when we move into initfs territory ourselves we wouldn't have that Nov 27 12:20:29 <`Mace> yeah. i think i'm just going to swap out the nic and wipe the vista install on this one and use the 1TB drive for esx Nov 27 12:21:01 <`Mace> then install vista on the 80G on the lesser box.. since i really don't need all the space for vista anyways :) Nov 27 12:21:23 <`Mace> i'm backing up my VMs now Nov 27 12:39:56 maemo on an N95? ;) Nov 27 12:41:21 No just mirggi on symbian^^ Nov 27 12:42:47 Ahhh. Nov 27 12:43:31 ;D Nov 27 12:49:41 * Stskeeps wonders idly where nokia is planning on putting clutter stuff really Nov 27 12:50:00 you mean at what level of the UI? Nov 27 12:50:45 yeah Nov 27 12:50:56 pango/atk/cairo or? :P Nov 27 12:51:14 my guess is that it will be an optional thing in that way that canola uses the enlightenment libs Nov 27 12:52:05 libhildon maybe Nov 27 12:52:10 whats up with the *rtcomm (chinook)* - project .. will the developters ever port it to diablo? Nov 27 12:53:06 thopiekar_xp, it works in diablo I believe Nov 27 12:55:14 hmm... time to test it... but i think there will be some problems with apt ... nokia meta-packaged everything across... if you know what I mean ;) Nov 27 12:55:50 because even sudo apt-get update is very difficult to run... Nov 27 12:56:15 there was a thread on ITT with info on getting it installed Nov 27 12:56:20 didn't seem too difficult Nov 27 12:58:00 thopiekar_xp: i installed account-plugin-haze and telepathy-haze instead of rtcomm btw Nov 27 13:00:23 hi Nov 27 13:00:36 I got /usr/include/linux/videodev2.h:217: error: syntax error before "__s32" Nov 27 13:00:46 when compiling a v2l app Nov 27 13:05:30 aquatix: which chat-services provides these packages? Nov 27 13:05:52 * thopiekar_xp is away for around 15mins Nov 27 13:07:09 thopiekar_xp: the IM app now lists AIM, Google Talk, ICQ, Jabber, MSN (Haze), SIP and Yahoo Nov 27 13:07:41 X-Fade, fyi, spam's back as of yesterday. Nov 27 13:07:54 GAN800: Yeah, I noticed. Nov 27 13:08:29 GAN800: We could protect the main page, but I guess it will soon come to other pages too. Nov 27 13:08:36 ah solved Nov 27 13:08:42 but this suckz Nov 27 13:08:59 sdk libc-headers and diablo-kernel-headers are out of sync Nov 27 13:10:08 johnx: i suspect it will be glued into GTK Nov 27 13:10:12 Clutter-GTK seems to exist Nov 27 13:10:56 * johnx reads up Nov 27 13:11:42 well clutter-gtk is embedded clutter in gtk, not gtk on top of clutter it appears Nov 27 13:12:01 http://www.vimeo.com/374006 Nov 27 13:12:42 right, so it's a clutter window in a gtk app Nov 27 13:12:46 ah Nov 27 13:12:52 sure? Nov 27 13:12:57 if I understand correctly Nov 27 13:13:02 no, I'm never sure Nov 27 13:13:17 ok nevermind Nov 27 13:13:29 just got to the tricky part of that video :) Nov 27 13:14:14 o.hand Nov 27 13:14:28 yeah, i know, intel, but open source.. Nov 27 13:14:32 offscreen rendering probably won't be so hot on the n8x0 ... Nov 27 13:17:34 mm Nov 27 13:19:17 well if you can speed up normal gtk and add in 3d effects.. :P Nov 27 13:22:05 hm Nov 27 13:22:07 mmap Nov 27 13:22:18 Stskeeps: http://svn.o-hand.com/view/clutter/trunk/clutter-qt/ Nov 27 13:22:35 offscreen or overlay Nov 27 13:23:39 clutter is a game engine ontop of ogl, its the same principle as ummm glut i believe Nov 27 13:24:45 * thopiekar_xp is back Nov 27 13:24:59 aquatix: thx Nov 27 13:26:34 yw Nov 27 13:27:32 lcuk do you use v4l2 to get images from the cam? Nov 27 13:29:41 i've got a question about the garage-'portal' Nov 27 13:31:27 I get these Emails everyday... 7 B60-commits moderator request(s) waiting... while I used SVN and I don't know how to comfirm these requests... Nov 27 13:32:44 even when i type in the password of my maemo-account on 'mailman' it says that this password is wrong... Nov 27 13:33:46 have you some ideas? Nov 27 13:34:10 or even tipps^^ Nov 27 13:36:41 johnx: around? Nov 27 13:36:58 Stskeeps, still here Nov 27 13:37:28 johnx: i think we should switch policy to using the tags, as we are using their ecosystem, instead of trunk, - to make our job easier eventually Nov 27 13:37:34 tags have autoconf and everything Nov 27 13:37:41 and we can move to newer versions with bzr rebase Nov 27 13:38:29 is everything we need in tags? Nov 27 13:38:33 yeah, think so Nov 27 13:38:42 they release internal versions often Nov 27 13:39:00 i'm not going to rebuild everything, just starting from now so Nov 27 13:39:16 alright, I'll keep that in mind Nov 27 13:39:23 still getting everything switched to jaunty Nov 27 13:39:37 k Nov 27 13:42:19 .. ok, not all of them has autoconf, but ok Nov 27 13:44:53 ok, bzr rebase isn't perfect :P Nov 27 13:45:38 moo johnx Nov 27 13:45:49 m00f Nov 27 14:30:48 ugh, im becomming tired of the marketing speak... Nov 27 14:34:54 t_s_o, where? Nov 27 14:37:21 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=245012&postcount=4 Nov 27 14:38:43 i think i see where things are going. nokia is at odds with the typical evolutionalry ways of the open source world. they want to put a shiny face on the next maemo based device, but they cant without pulling another 770... Nov 27 14:41:04 sure they can.. get a 3d driver for the n8x0 Nov 27 14:41:04 :P Nov 27 14:43:18 In other words, it is like he wants to tell us "you are fucked folks" Nov 27 14:43:41 But this, of course, is not news. Nov 27 14:43:56 unless they suddenly pull a surprise and release all source for old UI :P Nov 27 14:44:26 Which still leaves you fucked until someone get enough time and will to backport it Nov 27 14:44:49 <`Mace> you have to love high quaity network cards Nov 27 14:44:53 <`Mace> er.. quality too Nov 27 14:45:21 <`Mace> like when you get actual real performance out of them.. it's nice :) Nov 27 14:48:10 RST38h: not backport, as the driver will be for a different chipset Nov 27 14:48:47 lardman: I am sure the 3d driver will not be the only difference Nov 27 14:49:17 oh sorry I misread, I thought you were talking about that driver, not the whole of maemo5 Nov 27 14:49:21 lardman: you can expect most differences in HAL, system initialization, input device drivers, connectivity drivers Nov 27 14:49:36 of course I mean the whole thing Nov 27 14:50:54 i would like to see the early pre-alpha seeded version running on actual hardware, just because nokia doesnt have time to optimize does not mean we cant Nov 27 14:52:36 or was it really that bad and slow that it was fired up once or twice in postcard mode(like playing doom4 on an old laptop) Nov 27 14:53:24 I'm just getting to grips with a N810 - can anyone help me with a mail query? Nov 27 14:53:37 it downloads my Inbox but no subfolders Nov 27 14:54:11 annew: that's with an imap account? Nov 27 14:54:13 lcuk: Well, let me read my crystal balls Nov 27 14:54:18 yes Nov 27 14:54:29 I used the same settings as work on my EeePC Nov 27 14:54:39 lcuk: They say that the performance explanation, as well as HSPA explanation are both bogus Nov 27 14:54:50 annew: diablo/newest firmware update? Nov 27 14:54:52 lcuk: Added to the post for completeness Nov 27 14:55:04 ah - no. Nov 27 14:55:13 lcuk: The real explanation is Clutter and its reliance on OpenGL Nov 27 14:55:13 I'll see if I can find that, thanks. Nov 27 14:55:14 annew: there's some fixes for it :P Nov 27 14:55:36 Stskeeps: I'd like gpg too - is that possible? Nov 27 14:55:38 lcuk: There is no way to have OpenGL on n8x0 running at decent speed Nov 27 14:55:48 with a driver there is... Nov 27 14:56:04 annew: not sure for maemo, but claws has a gpg plugin.. Nov 27 14:56:05 lcuk: [whether it is due to the Epson chip usage or due to PowerVR guys being anal retentive is a different thing] Nov 27 14:56:22 lardman: Effectively, there is none, so far. So the current answer is no Nov 27 14:57:21 lcuk: Now, I (personally) do not understand why you would need Clutter at all. Current UI is good enough as far as I am concerned and Canola shows that you do not need 3D for a decent PMP like UI Nov 27 14:57:41 Stskeeps: ok - I'll see what I can find, thanks Nov 27 14:58:08 RST38h: I guess it will also be used for compositing? Nov 27 14:58:19 RST38h: it will look prettier Nov 27 14:58:22 But both Ubuntu and Moblin seem to go in Clutter's direction Nov 27 14:58:29 lardman: not by a huge amount really Nov 27 14:59:02 X-Fade: Well, compositing has very limited use in UIs and in a pinch you can do it with some tight assembly code Nov 27 14:59:03 TR@N51T10NzzZZz ;) Nov 27 14:59:14 yeah.. animations Nov 27 14:59:42 X-Fade: n8x0 has 16bpp display - I have some very tight code for compositing in 16bpp on arm Nov 27 14:59:43 in any case, alpha sdk will be out this year. Nov 27 14:59:50 And accelerated rendering, I guess. Nov 27 14:59:52 so we'll know soon Nov 27 15:00:10 X-Fade: Current hw does that already Nov 27 15:00:50 RST38h: Yes, but probably it will be a lot better in the next hardware. Nov 27 15:00:54 ;) Nov 27 15:01:01 for bitmaps, anyway, but that is what you would normally use in UI Nov 27 15:01:03 Less hardware limitations. Nov 27 15:01:11 X-Fade: Just has to be good enough really Nov 27 15:01:23 optimized,2d or 3d or whatever the BIG thing people want is glitz and shine and smooth fluid effects. Nov 27 15:01:26 Current HW handles UI easily Nov 27 15:01:39 brb Nov 27 15:01:44 It folds on JavaScript, Flash, and CSS rendering but who doesn't? Nov 27 15:01:45 lcuk: i blame apple for that... Nov 27 15:01:46 lcuk: Indeed. Nov 27 15:01:51 not easily, liqbase is hard Nov 27 15:02:07 lcuk: You do not have UI to speak about yet =) Nov 27 15:02:12 RST38h: it could always be quicker though, no point arguing either, the decision has already been made Nov 27 15:03:00 lardman: Yes, correct. In fact, I am not trying to argue with the decision (pointless) just reading my crystal balls trying to restore some hidden details of it Nov 27 15:03:23 My current guess is that they want to sync up with Ubuntu/Moblin by going Clutter route Nov 27 15:03:46 or simply get closer to some of their own modern uis Nov 27 15:04:00 RST38h: I think it is more because apple changed people's perception. Nov 27 15:04:34 Khertan_WebIrc5: Which one of you 2 is real? :) Nov 27 15:04:41 X-Fade: Yes but a tablet is not an Apple desktop by any measure Nov 27 15:05:00 RST38h: Next device is not a tablet :) Nov 27 15:05:07 And if Nokia wants to simulate iPhone, it probably shouldn't start with Clutter :) Nov 27 15:05:25 X-Fade: Are you telling me we are finally gonna get StarTrek datapads? =) Nov 27 15:06:08 RST38h: I honestly don't know, but it will probably not be called datapad. Nov 27 15:06:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arL_-tQndzI Nov 27 15:06:36 probably stuff like that we'd see Nov 27 15:06:45 RST38h: Although: http://www.nokia.com/A4707477 Nov 27 15:07:48 X-Fade: Shiny! Still a tablet though Nov 27 15:08:14 RST38h: No! An Eco Sensor ;) Nov 27 15:08:17 * RST38h wonders if the screen will be physically protected in the next one Nov 27 15:08:37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mNO8i7jMYE&feature=related <- ok .. kinda neat Nov 27 15:08:38 it is terribly fragile and defenseless in the current one Nov 27 15:09:32 Sts: I really do not see why this trivial stuff is worth switching to Clutter Nov 27 15:09:58 RST38h: admittedly i'm more for a maemo ui but then again i'm grumpy and old.. :P Nov 27 15:10:25 * aquatix wants a maemo-based phone :) Nov 27 15:10:33 Sts: Dunno, it just seems trivial and cheesy to me. If they do go OpenGL way, I would expect something more interesting Nov 27 15:11:09 it's kinda curious that hildon-desktop hasn't been worked on for 4 months Nov 27 15:11:31 Sts: Confirms that they are gonna drop it? Nov 27 15:11:35 not sure Nov 27 15:11:47 Hildon + clutter on EeePC ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivLZNp4FZYs Nov 27 15:12:19 aquatix: There is hope they will make voice circuitry work in the next tablet...So that it can be used with BT handsets Nov 27 15:12:27 Stskeeps: I was wondering about that too. Perhaps they have a private branch somewhere.. Nov 27 15:12:51 X-Fade: isn't that just the flash ui maybe? Nov 27 15:13:09 RST38h: you mean that you dial through a bt phone? Nov 27 15:13:10 Stskeeps: I gues the SDK will tell. I have no idea. Nov 27 15:13:16 yeah Nov 27 15:13:27 i'm waiting for that too cos it will have wide implications on any of my work Nov 27 15:13:41 yeah, I can imagine. Nov 27 15:14:55 did anyone see how far they could get with opengl es software render and dsp anyway? :P Nov 27 15:16:26 Stskeeps: checked for updates - it only offered maps - but Nov 27 15:16:39 then said the update conflicts with software from another source Nov 27 15:16:46 I haven't installed any yet Nov 27 15:16:53 advice? Nov 27 15:17:02 aquatix: more or less, although you can dial on the tablet Nov 27 15:17:08 the idea is that you speak into the handset Nov 27 15:17:29 annew: hmm, did you install diablo by flashing? Nov 27 15:18:45 Stskeeps: no - haven't found it yet Nov 27 15:18:49 still exploring Nov 27 15:19:06 sorry for timing, i just keep thinking that this device offers lots, but each tiny incremental step will be hard which is why the omap3 move is going, tbh though peter is right it will offer nice things Nov 27 15:19:44 it better be bloody good Nov 27 15:19:57 iphone is basically omap2+pvr isnt it? Nov 27 15:19:57 annew: is it a N810 and you have not firmware flashed it before? Nov 27 15:20:20 lcuk: No Nov 27 15:20:36 Stskeeps: that's right Nov 27 15:20:40 lcuk: iPhone is a Samsung ARM-based media processor + ARM-based baseband chip Nov 27 15:20:52 lcuk: I suppose Samsung does include PowerVR Nov 27 15:20:54 yeah, equivilent to what omap Nov 27 15:21:08 is it closer to 2 or 3 Nov 27 15:21:08 annew: mac, linux or windows? Nov 27 15:22:13 Stskeeps: linux I presume Nov 27 15:22:29 RST38h: yeah, but that kinda defeats the purpose; i want a smartphone with maemo :) Nov 27 15:22:50 damn ill bb @ 6ish, its gettin busy over here Nov 27 15:23:00 aquatix: there is a physical problem with that Nov 27 15:23:03 otoh, that'd be only very usable when the device is large-ish (big screen) Nov 27 15:23:14 so maybe i don't want a maemo phone Nov 27 15:23:22 aquatix: Anything with usably large screen will be too awkward to hold close to your ear Nov 27 15:23:36 But having it work through a BT handset is fine Nov 27 15:23:58 well, there are wince phones with slide-out keyboard with a 800x480 screen Nov 27 15:24:08 One of these handsets: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/8928/ Nov 27 15:24:13 Toshiba Portege G900 for example Nov 27 15:24:27 RST38h: ha Nov 27 15:24:27 aquatix: same problem - either pixels are too small or the phone is too large Nov 27 15:24:32 After all, there is E90! Nov 27 15:24:36 yeah Nov 27 15:24:41 * aquatix likes the E71 Nov 27 15:24:50 but i'll wait for the Nokia Eitri Nov 27 15:25:46 anything with usable touchscreen and qwerty and no wince will do i guess Nov 27 15:26:03 yea Nov 27 15:31:24 RST38h: The E90 is nice but S60 does not play well with the form factor and it is too slow. Nov 27 15:34:08 no wonder, with this screen size and the amount of deadwood in the base OS Nov 27 15:35:42 waiting for the public verdict on 5800 =) Nov 27 15:39:40 5800 seems nice Nov 27 15:39:41 johnx: luls, you asked about gc-linux in #wiili Nov 27 15:39:48 but i miss a physical kb Nov 27 15:40:06 n810 physical kbd is nothing to miss really Nov 27 15:40:12 RST38h: that's why i'm curious about the Eitri Nov 27 15:40:16 * RST38h misses e70 kbd though Nov 27 15:40:17 RST38h: well, i use it Nov 27 15:40:27 i think it's rather nice for a handheld Nov 27 15:40:45 a lot better than if i had to do with only touchscreen Nov 27 15:43:13 lcuk, OMAP2. It's still a shitty ARM11 Nov 27 15:43:41 qwerty12: Fullscreen button already works in transmission Nov 27 15:43:58 fiferboy, Really? Because it doesn't here :/ Nov 27 15:44:07 It does on my N810 Nov 27 15:44:35 Bollocks, It doesn't on N800 >.<. I'll change it from F6 to HILDON_HARDKEY_SOMETHING Nov 27 15:44:46 Wait, now it's not. Nov 27 15:45:02 does the fullscreen button work for you guys in gnumeric? Nov 27 15:45:05 it doesn't here :/ Nov 27 15:45:15 the View > Fullscreen menu option works though Nov 27 15:45:21 I added a patched version to my tablet to test, and that worked. Then I upgraded to the latest in h-a-m and now it doesn't Nov 27 15:45:31 Darn, I fixed it and thought you did! Nov 27 15:45:48 Heh :) Nov 27 15:46:08 Now I'm giving you credit for things I do! Nov 27 15:46:55 I'm currently working on making transmission open websites in the Maemo browser, I've done it successfully for the about dialog, just need to finish it off... Nov 27 15:47:06 Nice Nov 27 15:47:17 * qwerty12 steals fiferboy's credit muhahaha Nov 27 15:48:29 My development environment is in shambles right now, but I'll send you the fullscreen patch when I can Nov 27 15:48:44 Ok, thank you for that :) Nov 27 15:49:02 Assuming you don't add if before I can get it to you! Nov 27 15:49:11 Not much chance of that :) Nov 27 15:49:30 Good! I want to finally contribute something to transmission Nov 27 15:50:07 It will be much appreciated :) Nov 27 15:55:53 BTW, transmission does not search from the bar Nov 27 15:56:42 The eko1 stupidity just wont die. Nov 27 15:57:41 RST38h, Oh, hrm. I never tried the search thingie. I can try and fix it but you know me... Nov 27 15:58:18 Hello!i'm running an application based on sofia-sip, on chinook, when runnig it gives me this error: ./popkorn: symbol lookup error: ./popkorn: undefined symbol: stuntag_server Nov 27 15:58:55 qwerty: Surpprise me, please =) Nov 27 15:59:30 :) Nov 27 15:59:55 How do I get rid of my zombies? Nov 27 16:00:02 cover them with asphalt Nov 27 16:00:18 They keep coming back Nov 27 16:00:26 /ghost Nov 27 16:00:34 Thanks Nov 27 16:01:16 Hmm, "Error: GHOST fiferboy" Nov 27 16:01:39 Ah, there he goes. Nov 27 16:01:43 Good old timeout Nov 27 16:02:06 Good thing they aren't flying. Nov 27 16:02:29 Flying zombies? Nov 27 16:03:39 :cower: Nov 27 16:03:42 Can the default File Manager open a specific directory via a DBUS call? Nov 27 16:06:17 Time to D-Bus introspect... Nov 27 16:07:13 ~flashing Nov 27 16:07:14 methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Nov 27 16:07:18 -> annew Nov 27 16:11:25 Hello ! Nov 27 16:11:44 http://khertan.net/index.php/pages/mNotes Nov 27 16:11:45 :) Nov 27 16:12:26 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/m/mnotes/ :) Nov 27 16:12:33 not yet tested :) Nov 27 16:15:20 Another Khertan clone! Nov 27 16:16:29 yep Nov 27 16:16:47 but this time with a real cloned machine ... and auto destruct features Nov 27 16:17:36 hm, do you know any 3g/HSDPA .. dongles, no need for phone functionality, not USB? Nov 27 16:17:51 non-usb dongles? Nov 27 16:17:52 * Khertan87564 is using the japplet of undernet.org Nov 27 16:17:57 parallel port ones? :) Nov 27 16:18:21 Khertan87564: can mnotes sync with a service? Nov 27 16:18:22 pcmcia Nov 27 16:18:28 aquatix> nope Nov 27 16:18:32 aquatix: well a phone without display and keyboard Nov 27 16:18:34 for tethering Nov 27 16:18:34 aquatix> local only Nov 27 16:18:36 pccard is not really a dongle :) Nov 27 16:18:46 Stskeeps: aight Nov 27 16:19:00 i know one using firewire Nov 27 16:19:01 :) Nov 27 16:19:04 basically something i can charge once in a while Nov 27 16:19:28 firewire hsdpa dongle ? no need ? ;) Nov 27 16:19:48 for n800 :P Nov 27 16:20:01 Khertan87564: hm, what's the advantage of mNotes above the build-in Notes? Nov 27 16:20:09 Khertan87564: the left list? Nov 27 16:20:25 no need to save Nov 27 16:20:27 auto save Nov 27 16:20:43 ah right Nov 27 16:20:45 palm style Nov 27 16:20:53 yep a bit like palm style Nov 27 16:20:55 * Stskeeps will just have to wait for n900 i guess Nov 27 16:21:14 (old palm user) Nov 27 16:21:27 (and developper ;) ) Nov 27 16:21:32 Stskeeps, find an excuse to upgrade your phone? Nov 27 16:21:58 Any omap3 phones out yet? Nov 27 16:22:13 GAN800: i have a 3g phone .. the problem is that my provider doesn't have a decent data plan Nov 27 16:22:18 well, they do Nov 27 16:22:22 Not that I've noticed Nov 27 16:22:23 but they don't combine phone + data well Nov 27 16:22:54 Stskeeps: providers are weird that way Nov 27 16:23:00 Khertan87564: Oooh, this sounds like what I want (and was planning to do with whizzy Clutter effects when Fremantle SDK comes out) Nov 27 16:23:29 * aquatix is annoyed about those recent laptop ads; you think they sell a cheap laptop, but actually it comes with a 2-year data plan Nov 27 16:23:58 Jaffa: whizzy Clutter effects for a notes app? :) Nov 27 16:24:12 * aquatix pokes lcuk Nov 27 16:24:13 stskeep > come in france ... none isp have real data plan Nov 27 16:24:23 Khertan87564: ghehe Nov 27 16:24:49 * Khertan87564 still doesn't know what will look like Clutter ? Nov 27 16:26:59 hum ... Nov 27 16:27:12 found some interesting things to read about clutter ... Nov 27 16:27:39 aquatix & jaffa > something like that for the notes list : http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=arL_-tQndzI Nov 27 16:27:43 ? Nov 27 16:28:18 with bookmark as list ... and browser renderer as textview Nov 27 16:28:30 * aquatix downloads movie Nov 27 16:29:42 does clutter could be run on actual nit ? Nov 27 16:29:52 as i think the power will be a bit short Nov 27 16:31:09 they claim it will for n900 :P Nov 27 16:31:21 clutter looks nice, but is it really that necessary :/ Nov 27 16:31:34 as said, something like canola pulls off is really nice already Nov 27 16:31:48 yep .... but they said this will be for fremantle Nov 27 16:32:00 not for n900 specifycally ? Nov 27 16:32:17 or maybe i ve missed something since the summit Nov 27 16:32:32 well Nov 27 16:32:45 they are claiming n900 will be the thing that fremantle runs on, and .. maybe n8x0 Nov 27 16:33:10 aquatix> yep but not really easy to do something with efl Nov 27 16:33:51 Stskeeps> yep ... i understand it like that ... it should run ... on n8x0 ... but we don't say if it ll be a hacker edition ;) Nov 27 16:34:13 or if all things will run Nov 27 16:34:16 like clutter lib Nov 27 16:34:56 mm Nov 27 16:35:00 we'll see i guess Nov 27 16:35:16 Well, hildon-desktop could fall-back to normal behavior when no hardware is found? Nov 27 16:36:09 yeah.. i agree that would definately be an option Nov 27 16:36:13 There are supposed to be a lot of goodies in Fremantle that do not need any hardware features. Nov 27 16:36:27 So even if we only get those ;) Nov 27 16:47:00 Sending an open_folder call to com.nokia.osso_filemanager at least starts up the file manager, now it would be nice if it actually opened the folder I wanted... Nov 27 16:50:29 disco_stu: Can you give me the ad-hoc how-to page addr again? Nov 27 16:51:13 Khertan, there isn't really a 'look' Nov 27 16:51:29 3d widgets you can do whatever with. Nov 27 16:54:02 ... a look ? Nov 27 16:54:31 ah you mean about clutter ? Nov 27 16:54:55 yep i ve see ... it s just a lib to ease dev with a gnome style Nov 27 16:55:10 rendering in 3D :) Nov 27 16:56:07 aquatix, already in mind :) Nov 27 16:56:17 but im notmeant to be here now, ill talk to you in a bit Nov 27 16:57:05 can some one help me with qwerty12's winexe real quick Nov 27 16:58:34 i enter ../winexe -U WORKGROUP\administrator%mypassd\\ 192.168.1.4 and get nothing Nov 27 16:59:16 his instructions say ./winexe -U WORKGROUP/% // Nov 27 17:00:31 uhm, you stated \\ in first, // in second Nov 27 17:01:03 Is your machine actually in the WORKGROUP workgroup? Nov 27 17:01:51 ./winexe -U workgroup\administrator%mpasswd// 192.168.1.4 Nov 27 17:01:58 nothing Nov 27 17:02:07 i get the help list Nov 27 17:02:30 You're formatting the command wrong then. Take the time to actually read the help. Nov 27 17:02:58 soo this is wrong then ./winexe -U workgroup\administrator%mpasswd// 192.168.1.4 Nov 27 17:03:16 cuz thats a copy and past my n810 Nov 27 17:04:17 i really don't like this thread : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25221 Nov 27 17:04:57 specially Peter@Maemo Marketing: ... is it a real guy ? Nov 27 17:05:24 qwerty12 thanks for you help Nov 27 17:05:25 i mean a real guy from the maemo marketing ? Nov 27 17:05:43 Khertan, he's Quim's boss Nov 27 17:05:51 and there's nothing new there. Nov 27 17:06:58 GAN800> :) Nov 27 17:07:16 really ? Nov 27 17:07:44 when it s mean that for n8x0 it ll be only hacker edition Nov 27 17:07:50 anyway ... Nov 27 17:07:58 * Khertan_the_real is happy with diablo :) Nov 27 17:08:05 Well, we already knew it wasn't likely. Nov 27 17:08:36 Still, getting most of Fremantle running on OMAP2 hardware should be pretty straightforward. Nov 27 17:08:55 * Khertan_the_real is looking for google trad for !straightforward! Nov 27 17:09:36 yep i think too Nov 27 17:10:28 but what surprise me the most in this post ... is to see a post from the it nokia team which was not quim :) Nov 27 17:10:44 but maybe i ve read many post from nokia guys without know it :) Nov 27 17:10:55 Hehe Nov 27 17:11:05 You've surely missed some Nov 27 17:11:16 There are lots of Nokia folks about Nov 27 17:11:41 Though Quim and Peter are in positions to wear their Nokia hats a little more actively. Nov 27 17:11:55 Since their job is largely to speak for Nokia. Nov 27 17:12:53 yep have see texrat Nov 27 17:15:06 ... Nov 27 17:15:07 Mara and Igor too Nov 27 17:15:12 will take train ... Nov 27 17:15:18 Ragnar Nov 27 17:15:29 and i ve left orange isp ... so no more phone :) Nov 27 17:15:33 see you tomorrow Nov 27 17:15:37 good night Nov 27 17:24:00 Wohoo! ukmp in downloads.maemo.org. Please test. https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/ukmp/ Nov 27 17:28:48 anyone know about the long term availability of the garnet vm (palmos) for the NITs ? Nov 27 17:28:57 GAN800: it's probably trivial -if- nokia is open to firmware mixing.. and if nokia pulls the usual N900-to-get-firmware.. :P Nov 27 17:30:11 Sts: You won't be able to run omap3 firmware on omap2 Nov 27 17:30:23 hw is different Nov 27 17:35:26 yeah, okay, true Nov 27 17:35:41 that poses more problems for a HE from community :P Nov 27 17:37:22 tank-man, they haven't announced anything. Nov 27 17:37:47 i got an email yesterday about a new beta3 out Nov 27 17:37:55 Stskeeps, I don't think they'd be against the community doing the work on a backport. :) Nov 27 18:10:22 Khertan is one of you still alive Nov 27 18:10:29 damn Nov 27 18:11:39 aquatix, are you still about Nov 27 18:22:07 I tried to use advanced search in maemo.org and got this: Nov 27 18:22:11 /export/hda3/4.4.102.M.36/local/conf/frontends/wiki/domain_filter (No such file or directory) Nov 27 18:23:25 and now I tried again directly with advanced search and it works.. Nov 27 18:47:05 why does the mediaplayer break when i upload a single mp3 via sftp onto the sd-card? I can't access the library afterwards Nov 27 18:52:39 how do you folks get openvpn working when a TLS key is required? Nov 27 18:54:53 hmm. weird, it works normal again Nov 27 18:55:10 all i did was firing up the filemanager and deleted one mp3 in my home.. pff Nov 27 18:56:34 qwerty12: How do you want me to send you the patch? email a diff? Nov 27 18:57:21 fiferboy, Yes please, my email address should be in debian/control Nov 27 18:58:03 Gotcha. I accidently built it against the wrong version (the 1.40 before the menu was hildonized) Nov 27 18:58:11 Do you mind if I just send the actions.c diff? Nov 27 18:58:18 sure Nov 27 18:58:24 I'm PRETTY sure that's all I ended up touching ;) Nov 27 18:59:34 i switched to quilt (many thanks to mikkov_) and i got to say that managing the patches is *way* easier Nov 27 19:08:46 qwerty12_N800, can i borrow that quilt, im f*cking freezing Nov 27 19:09:44 heh, it's been horrible in London too, can't imagine what it is like in the north :( Nov 27 19:09:46 sb supports quilt? scary Nov 27 19:11:09 apt-get install quilt, slippers, pipe Nov 27 19:11:28 something really got my goat today Nov 27 19:11:55 i was thinking of a layout algorythm Nov 27 19:13:01 and i found myself idling setting it up and visualizing what i wanted in vb in seconds. god damn me not having such simplicity on maemo (yet) Nov 27 19:13:27 glade? :P Nov 27 19:13:29 python? Nov 27 19:13:29 :P Nov 27 19:14:23 * GAN800 is cold at 65 Nov 27 19:17:18 Stskeeps: why nit-env-gnome-basic matchbox doesn't fit the screen but nit-env-lxde fits? Nov 27 19:17:21 fiferboy: libboost with serialization for armel only is submitted to autobuilder, let's hope that it actually works this time Nov 27 19:17:44 mikkov_: Excellent! I will be waiting to hear the results. Nov 27 19:17:55 I take it it takes quite a while to build Nov 27 19:18:25 it should take one more hour or so Nov 27 19:18:36 submitted it two hours ago Nov 27 19:18:37 all people trying to make a WM, have you tried using it in portrait orientation, i use vnc that way round because for some reason a proper desktop fits Nov 27 19:18:48 it always looks cramped on widescreen Nov 27 19:19:21 and didn't test locally because it takes so long ;) Nov 27 19:19:45 hahlobit: er. apples and oranges and bulldozers. Nov 27 19:20:59 just suspect that nit-env-lxde is more tuned Nov 27 19:22:30 Man I suck at creating patches Nov 27 19:22:38 Stupis goddamn Fremantle thread. Nov 27 19:24:11 GAN800, chill Nov 27 19:27:52 lcuk, it's such a boring discussion Nov 27 19:28:28 I swear I've talked about the community backport a half-dozen times in the last two days. Nov 27 19:28:47 Turkey time, you guys can all freeze to death. :P Nov 27 19:29:24 Interesting way of saying "See you later". :P Nov 27 19:53:18 qwerty12_N800: Which patch do you want me to send? My first one where it would fullscreen fine then crash coming out, or my second one that works flawless? Nov 27 19:53:24 The first one is, obviously, much more fun! Nov 27 19:54:08 fiferboy, what the hell, I love spontaneous crashes so I'll take the first one please! :P Nov 27 19:54:26 Yes! I knew you wouldn't let me down Nov 27 19:54:37 Hehe Nov 27 19:54:43 I can incorporate an 8MB/s memory leak too, if you want. Nov 27 19:55:07 ~installing from SD Nov 27 19:55:14 ~boot from SD Nov 27 19:55:15 * infobot inconspicously shuffles over to get a straight line across from SD to the window above the dumpster, takes aim, and punts from SD out to where he belongs! Nov 27 19:55:37 fiferboy, Yes, please! Nov 27 19:55:40 hmm, how do i get it to give out the wiki page? Nov 27 19:55:42 ~boot-sd Nov 27 19:55:42 i guess boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card Nov 27 19:55:51 qwerty12_N800: ah, ty Nov 27 19:56:00 One last test (to make sure the package builds after applying the patch) then I'll send it along Nov 27 19:56:02 i have to say the other result was entertaining Nov 27 19:57:01 fiferboy, Ok, thank you for your work on this. Nov 27 19:57:28 qwerty12_N800: Not a problem. Anything else you are looking to do with transmission? Nov 27 20:00:33 fiferboy, Trying to see I can get Transmission's open folder feature and the default file manager to play nicely. I found that you can send a open_folder event to com.nokia.osso_filemanager to make it open a folder but it don't it likes the paths transmission sends to it... Nov 27 20:00:53 What dbus line are you using? Nov 27 20:01:18 Oh, you can get it to work if you format the folder location differently than transmission does? Nov 27 20:01:56 Good point actually, I haven't actually tried dbus-sending it manually >.< Nov 27 20:03:21 is "umount /media/mmc2" supposed to unmount the internal memory card? Nov 27 20:03:35 it keeps telling me the device is busy even though i'm not using it Nov 27 20:09:25 qwerty12_N800: The patch is winging its way to you Nov 27 20:10:20 thanks! I'll apply it tomorrow (I practicaly have the entire day off :P) Nov 27 20:11:09 Well, I don't think it will take the entire day to apply it, but I would leave yourself a 6-8 hour window. Nov 27 20:12:42 Hehe, got the email. Thanks again! (i should have a thanks counter :) ) Nov 27 20:16:50 Has anyone used pythons psyco ever? Nov 27 20:18:09 I just tried it out for a few simple tests and it actually seems to be giving quite a boost Nov 27 20:22:08 mm, yeah, but did it work on arm? :P Nov 27 20:22:15 i can't recall if it did Nov 27 20:22:39 I'll see if it does. Nov 27 20:22:51 pypy is the interesting player in this game atleast Nov 27 20:22:57 (which are interested in maemo too) Nov 27 20:23:15 psyco is hardcoded x86 Nov 27 20:23:28 even x86_64 would be some manmonths of effort Nov 27 20:25:26 yeah, pypy is currently seeing whether it would be a fit for the maemo platform Nov 27 20:25:53 some of the pypy guys own internet tables and did some hacking lately Nov 27 20:25:57 tablets Nov 27 20:27:49 software hacking? Nov 27 20:28:50 fiferboy, seems like the file manager just plain sucks. I just did an dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.osso_filemanager /com/nokia/osso_filemanager com.nokia.osso_filemanager.open_folder string:/media/mmc2 and it just shows the MyDocs folder Nov 27 20:31:19 Hmm... Nov 27 20:32:18 I don't get anything at all :( Nov 27 20:32:42 i had to do it a few times :/ Nov 27 20:32:52 Nice Nov 27 20:33:01 There we go, second time Nov 27 20:33:29 There we go, put the location in single quotes Nov 27 20:33:34 Works for me. Nov 27 20:35:04 I tried string:'/media/mmc2' but it's still stuck on MyDocs. Let me add a trailing slash Nov 27 20:35:05 Well, worked for me one time. Now it's gone back to just opening MyDocs... Nov 27 20:35:53 Trailing slash didn't help me. Nov 27 20:36:09 It did it for me the first time I put in quotation marks, but now it won't do it again. Nov 27 20:36:39 grr, may as well leave it. as we can see, osso_filemanager is not the most consistent of applications. Nov 27 20:36:44 There, just randomly did it again with the trailing slash, after not work three times. Nov 27 20:37:42 I called it 3 times in a row with success. Crappy behaviour imho. Nov 27 20:37:55 Does it work at all programatically? Maybe osso_rpc_async_run would work better... Nov 27 20:39:18 No idea, thanks for the pointer, maybe I can make transmission send the dbus call twice... Nov 27 20:44:58 * lcuk just did a stinker of a fart, im surprised it didnt knock me off the internet Nov 27 21:01:56 "The first Fremantle SDK will be 100% open source (missing some components and features certainly, but being functional and buildable)." Nov 27 21:01:59 interesting Nov 27 21:02:16 where can you fine some good apps for the n800 running os2008? is there anything out there other than whats available in the maemo download section? Nov 27 21:02:30 Ro9u3oR: enabling Maemo extras is a good start Nov 27 21:02:33 ~extras Nov 27 21:02:34 i heard extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Nov 27 21:03:10 where can you fine some good apps for the n800 running os2008? is there anything out there other than whats available in the maemo download section? Nov 27 21:03:20 Ro9u3oR: check repo page, gronmayer.com/it Nov 27 21:04:05 i get 90% of my stuff from gronmayer,com/it Nov 27 21:04:35 well, gronmayer.com/it has extras too Nov 27 21:04:41 =P Nov 27 21:05:33 thanks Nov 27 21:19:32 Meiz_n810: https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#Mer_Developer_Tools Nov 27 21:20:05 er, sec, refresh :P Nov 27 21:20:12 (remove s in http too) Nov 27 21:24:14 qwerty12_N800: I should be around tomorrow if you run into any problems with my patch Nov 27 21:24:23 There should be no problem, though Nov 27 21:25:20 does the openvpn applet work for anyone? Nov 27 21:25:28 fiferboy, yep, seems nicely done. Thank you for making the patch in your own time Nov 27 21:25:45 No problem. Glad I could help Nov 27 21:26:55 Later Nov 27 21:27:02 Bye Nov 27 21:29:21 can openvpn be used to bond two uplink together? Nov 27 21:32:11 how do you connect to a hidden wifi network? Nov 27 21:32:44 the connection manager lets me add hidden networks, but only shows visible ones on the connection screen Nov 27 22:27:48 does anyone happen to know what the purpose of the small metal plate on the inside of the nokia's battery cover is? Nov 27 22:28:08 i'm guessing it may tell the device the battery cover is closed, but not sure Nov 27 22:36:05 l7, something to do with the sdcard i guess.. when i open / close it powered on, it tells me 'memory card available' Nov 27 22:40:07 Stskeeps, had you read the comment by Peter@marketing when you asked about clutter a while ago? Nov 27 22:41:15 :'( some guy demoing omap2 running 3d software its so sad we havent got it running yet Nov 27 22:41:40 the omap3 looks nice though, much more capable Nov 27 22:41:50 yeah Nov 27 22:41:56 no need for that "yet" Nov 27 22:42:21 he johny Nov 27 22:42:23 and lcuk Nov 27 22:42:30 hi Nov 27 22:43:15 hiya woglinde, hows tricks Nov 27 22:43:52 hm dont know why the ssh folks using aclocal.m4 instead of copy it to m4/openssh.m4 Nov 27 22:44:01 but that was easy to fix for now Nov 27 22:44:04 bradd: yeah, i was wondering if it completes a circuit that tells the tablet that the lid is on Nov 27 22:44:21 or maybe it's just there to cushion the SD card somehow, though that seems less likely Nov 27 22:45:04 there's a little magnet that acts as the lid sensor Nov 27 22:45:51 oh, where is this magnet? Nov 27 22:47:46 hey, is there a way to "mute" the nokia's led? its annoying.. Nov 27 22:47:54 whats the correct image to download if you are trying to upgrade your os on the n800 Nov 27 22:48:08 im at the site now and there are a few to chose from Nov 27 22:49:56 the latest date Nov 27 22:50:26 do i download that to the sdcard? Nov 27 22:52:33 hrm, maybe moving a n800 too close to a demagnetizer would be bad Nov 27 22:52:54 Ro9u3oR, i dunno, i use the windows flasher Nov 27 22:53:06 if it demagnetized the magnet for the rear battery door Nov 27 22:53:09 im working from a windows machine Nov 27 22:53:17 think you can walk me thru it Nov 27 22:54:34 i could barely walk myself through it last time i tried Nov 27 22:55:11 thanks anyway Nov 27 22:55:28 http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/2008/01/nokia-n800-how-to-update-n800s-firmware.html Nov 27 22:56:01 good start Nov 27 23:30:36 hope this upgrade works Nov 27 23:34:54 so far so good Nov 27 23:35:00 i think Nov 27 23:41:47 im trying to upgrade my device anyone think they can help Nov 27 23:41:56 Still? Nov 27 23:42:03 lol Nov 27 23:42:07 first attemp Nov 27 23:42:14 :/ Nov 27 23:42:15 ~flashing Nov 27 23:42:16 flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Nov 27 23:42:30 infobot: I love you Nov 27 23:42:31 You love you? Nov 27 23:43:10 ok it worked Nov 27 23:43:13 thanks guys Nov 28 00:33:30 how do you launch downloaded apps on the n800 running os2008 Nov 28 00:33:53 go to the meny Nov 28 00:33:55 menu* Nov 28 00:35:10 there not listed in the menu Nov 28 00:37:43 what did you download? and where did you download it to? and where did you download it from? Nov 28 00:39:15 johnx: luls, you asked about gc-linux in #wiili Nov 28 00:39:42 Navi, the sf project for the linux kernel for the wii is called gc-linux :) Nov 28 00:40:14 johnx: Yes, and that's the only project fer Linux on the Wii, at the moment Nov 28 00:40:22 but that what gets me is the irony Nov 28 00:40:25 or was it because #wiili is more for the wiimote stuff than the linux-on-wii stuff? Nov 28 00:40:43 ah Nov 28 00:40:43 That was the first Wii-linux-related thing in #wiili for months Nov 28 00:40:49 how can i run down loaded apps Nov 28 00:40:50 ahaha Nov 28 00:41:04 Ro9u3oR, what did you download? and where did you download it to? and where did you download it from? Nov 28 00:41:20 If you want answers, you should visit gc-linux's channel on efnet Nov 28 00:41:36 WiiLi is just there for the owner to make ad money Nov 28 00:41:36 gah, more IRC channels :/ Nov 28 00:42:02 and why are you there? O_o Nov 28 00:42:09 To tell people the truth Nov 28 00:42:21 and troll Nov 28 00:42:24 mostly trolling Nov 28 00:42:31 BTW, #gc-linux is a channel with just me :) I guess that's a pretty good answer Nov 28 00:42:45 time to shoehorn a dev env onto my wii once other people stop using it :P Nov 28 00:43:07 sorry, #gc-linux on irc.oftc.net Nov 28 00:43:35 bluetooth networking should be as straightforward on the wii as it is on a normal Linux desktop Nov 28 00:43:56 except I'm missing bnep.ko Nov 28 00:45:05 which means, it:P Nov 28 00:45:06 :P Nov 28 00:59:46 mytube is neat. can i has for linux pc? Nov 28 01:50:01 is there an irc app for os2008 yet ? Nov 28 01:50:27 irc app - irc client whatever you want to call it :P Nov 28 01:51:47 xchat and irssi are available Nov 28 01:51:51 xchat is in extras Nov 28 01:52:11 and xchat has been out for quite a while :) Nov 28 01:54:57 i don't have the tablet yet ... was thinking of buying it but an important feature i would need is the ability to chat via irc Nov 28 01:55:11 xchat Nov 28 01:55:13 well, it's definitely there :) Nov 28 01:55:32 xchat, irssi, pidgin, and even the built in chat client can kind of do it Nov 28 01:55:49 kool Nov 28 01:56:11 is the N810 a good device for the price ? Nov 28 01:56:27 depends on what you want to do, but overall yes Nov 28 01:56:35 I have an N800 though :) Nov 28 01:58:34 well, i mean my main concern is the fact that i would be mainly using it at work but they don't have wifi in the area so i'm not sure if i could connect to the internet without wifi or anything ..... any suggestions as far as that goes Nov 28 01:59:14 you could use bluetooth to tether it to a cell phone Nov 28 01:59:51 in that case you would need a phone that has bluetooth and a data plan for it Nov 28 02:00:05 i have the sidekick slide from t-mobile that has internet and bluetooth so that might just work Nov 28 02:01:18 out of curiosity, is there an IRC app for the sidekick? Nov 28 02:03:22 you do need to make sure that your sidekick supports "Bluetooth DUN (dial up networking)" or "Bluetooth PAN (Personal Area Network)" Nov 28 02:05:01 not sure i will have to check on that but as far as IRC on the sidekick i was able to develop a client to work on it, however it was a qwik development and could use some enhancements :P Nov 28 02:06:35 when its debugged and running a little faster and more effeciant then i will submit it to Danger and see if they approve it as part of there application list, but i haven't really messed with it in some time Nov 28 02:07:46 from a quick search it looks like the sidekick side doesn't support those bluetooth profiles Nov 28 02:08:02 with the Danger OS there isn't much you can do with it, all applications are developed under the Java Platform Nov 28 02:08:48 my strong development skills are in shel based OS's and Windows based OS's Nov 28 02:09:06 yeah, that closed OS always turned me off the sidekick Nov 28 02:09:09 i'm not real strong in Java "yet" Nov 28 02:09:16 the hardware looked really nice though Nov 28 02:09:48 its ok ..... i'm not a big fan of it myself but hell it was free to me :P Nov 28 02:11:35 it would be awsome if the Nokia devices could have a internet service you could signup with and be connected constantly ...... without having to be tied into a cell phone provider Nov 28 02:12:02 well there is a wimax version Nov 28 02:12:15 much more expensive ? Nov 28 02:12:22 of course :) Nov 28 02:12:26 heh Nov 28 02:12:27 and the next one will have a builtin 3G modem Nov 28 02:12:50 the wimax version is $450, but most places don't have wimax yet Nov 28 02:12:52 3g is soooo overloaded though Nov 28 02:13:14 wimax is in Baltimore only isn't it Nov 28 02:13:23 yeah, and DC is in trials Nov 28 02:13:26 IIRC Nov 28 02:13:38 they'll be more places later of course Nov 28 02:13:44 yea Nov 28 02:15:24 se thats really the only thing right now stopping me from "checking out" :P Nov 28 02:16:02 an internet tablet is useless without internet :P Nov 28 02:16:09 actually, I tend to use mine offline quite a bit Nov 28 02:16:19 reading RSS feeds, reading books, taking notes, etc Nov 28 02:16:21 Hardly Nov 28 02:16:23 my main use would eb online tho Nov 28 02:16:37 Music, movies, podcasts, ebooks, games, emulators. Nov 28 02:16:46 yeah, and if you have no inet access at all with it, it's a pain to install apps Nov 28 02:16:53 i agree with that, but useless to me knowing what i need it for Nov 28 02:18:09 does it have a Terminal that you can use to create shell scripts and be able to run them ect ...... ? Nov 28 02:19:32 of course Nov 28 02:20:47 is it like a full functional (without restrictions) Linux OS ? Nov 28 02:20:59 well it's fully open, if that's what you mean Nov 28 02:21:06 Basically Nov 28 02:21:10 it has busybox instead of coreutils/bsdutils/bash Nov 28 02:21:29 it doesn't have bash shell ? Nov 28 02:21:42 you can install it as a user shell if you need it Nov 28 02:22:06 but the main shell used is ash Nov 28 02:22:11 i don't alot of my shell scripting in Bash Nov 28 02:22:19 i do " Nov 28 02:22:30 if you stay sh compatible you're fine, if you need bash, install it Nov 28 02:22:41 kool Nov 28 02:29:38 lcuk: Hi **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 28 02:59:57 2008