**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 30 02:59:57 2008 Nov 30 03:00:39 just use a different file manager ;p Nov 30 03:01:02 hey couldnt you tell filemanager to start at / ? .. wouldnt that then show all the filesystem? Nov 30 03:01:10 start at / when open? Nov 30 03:01:25 whats the binary name for file manager pgm? Nov 30 03:02:06 osso-filemanager <-- i believe Nov 30 03:04:00 hmm tons of oss-xxxxxx just no file manager Nov 30 03:13:27 emelfm2 Nov 30 03:15:26 checking it out now GAN800 thanks Nov 30 03:25:52 dolphin!!! Nov 30 04:16:13 who knows anything about multimediad? Nov 30 04:16:45 going once, going twice Nov 30 04:21:17 aww come on, _somebody_ has to know about multimediad Nov 30 04:34:48 nobody?? Nov 30 04:35:08 I know about cheese Nov 30 04:35:24 lol, what's cheese? Nov 30 04:35:48 at least somebody's alive! Nov 30 04:35:54 oh, it's great. A dairy product made from the milk of cows or goats usually Nov 30 04:36:25 I'm not so much alive as undead :P Nov 30 04:37:03 lol Nov 30 04:37:21 that's great Nov 30 04:37:27 just don't vant to suck anybody's blood Nov 30 04:37:42 and we can be friends Nov 30 04:38:04 but we could be better friends if you know something about multimediad Nov 30 04:38:14 spiffy, so buddy... ya got $20 I could borrow? ;) Nov 30 04:38:37 yeah, I know thing about that Nov 30 04:39:15 aw, and I just pulled out a fresh $20 Nov 30 04:40:45 I know about a lot of other things though Nov 30 04:49:59 hey tulkastaldo tell me something interesting and cool Nov 30 04:50:27 there are 336 dimples on a regulation golf ball Nov 30 04:50:40 in 1994 all major presidential candidates were left handed Nov 30 04:51:25 damn dude! Nov 30 04:51:28 All none of them? Nov 30 04:51:51 Presidential elections were 1992 and 1996, not 1994. Nov 30 04:52:00 haha Nov 30 04:52:10 in the US they were Nov 30 04:52:24 Yes, well. Nov 30 04:57:50 gah, was 92 I was thinking of senate elections for some reason and got the dates mixed up Nov 30 04:58:05 alright, no multimediad experts here Nov 30 04:58:37 but tulkastaldo is a knowledgeable dude nonetheless Nov 30 04:58:40 later all Nov 30 04:58:43 if there is they're sleeping :P Nov 30 04:59:00 then they need to wake up and talk to me Nov 30 04:59:05 hear that? Nov 30 04:59:10 WAKE UP MULTIMEDIAD EXPERTS! Nov 30 04:59:26 that should do it Nov 30 04:59:46 sometimes you just have to resort to shouting Nov 30 05:00:30 alright, night all Nov 30 05:00:35 peace Nov 30 08:17:40 Mer guys | Stskeeps | johnx | anybody...: Is there a start-hildon -script downloadable somewhere? Nov 30 08:19:45 ok, maybe i don't need it yet... glib is needed before. Nov 30 08:27:59 it'll come Nov 30 08:30:34 right now im bootstrapping it so Nov 30 09:00:06 k Nov 30 09:00:14 as we need to make the launcher work Nov 30 09:00:20 and then we prolly get some patches from johnx Nov 30 09:02:55 it's not much worth doing huge amount of work until sdk is out as that may change the game completely Nov 30 09:13:41 ok :) Nov 30 09:16:23 heh, just received an advertisement.. and there's a n810 in it Nov 30 09:16:58 for 1,073.41 euro. Nov 30 09:17:03 now -that's- a ripoff company. Nov 30 09:18:08 (approx 1320 usd) Nov 30 09:19:04 at least they put it under portable pcs and not mobile phones. Nov 30 09:19:45 interesting, n810 is down in same price range as i bought my n800 in Nov 30 09:34:09 xD 1,073,41??? Nov 30 09:34:53 when i bought my n810 it was 370 euro Nov 30 09:35:13 now it's 310 at the same store Nov 30 09:36:59 Meiz_n810: yeah, i checked out the operation, it's obviously 2x prices Nov 30 09:37:05 or 3-4x Nov 30 09:37:17 i can offer a cheaper price just ordering for people and sending it to them Nov 30 09:37:37 yep Nov 30 09:38:41 pandora will propably drop n810 price a bit... Nov 30 09:40:21 i'm not entirely sure really Nov 30 09:42:25 i guess it will... they are both portable "computers", but ofcourse, pandora is meant to be a gaming console... Nov 30 09:42:52 well it can only help having more omap3 stuff on the market i guess Nov 30 09:43:13 but what will push down prices is netbooks and ipod touch and such instead Nov 30 09:43:28 or HSDPA bundling Nov 30 09:43:37 k Nov 30 09:45:21 i am really waiting for arm-based laptops (12-15 inch screen) Nov 30 09:45:40 n810's dropped 5ukps in 6 months in uk Nov 30 09:45:40 there will propably be some at the next summer Nov 30 09:45:49 when ubuntu-arm in offical Nov 30 09:45:53 probably Nov 30 09:46:03 debian has had an arm version for years Nov 30 09:46:15 yeah, but is debian very consumer oriented? :P Nov 30 09:46:53 debian should have versions for diffrent boards, not only armv4 Nov 30 09:47:31 Meiz_n810: i'm still wondering if armv6t-vfp makes a different to armv5t, if you optimize certain libraries for armv6t-vfp Nov 30 09:54:47 Ubuntu will make "installers" and kernels for many devices Nov 30 09:54:56 yeah, probably Nov 30 09:55:09 but which things benefit from being compiled for later arm versions Nov 30 10:00:28 Stskeeps, obviously, media stuff Nov 30 10:00:56 especially from vfp Nov 30 10:01:16 unless the lib is fully integer Nov 30 10:02:55 yeah, stuff like libm and other heavy duty stuff :P Nov 30 10:09:42 heh, got some spare time on your hands again qwerty12? ;) Nov 30 10:09:58 t_s_o, haha, yeah :P Nov 30 10:49:57 well.. upgraded my esx box :) Nov 30 10:51:17 woo Nov 30 10:51:22 heh Nov 30 10:51:31 Stskeeps - only reason i did it was to give you guys dev shells :-P Nov 30 10:51:39 i still have to make the VM for debian Nov 30 10:51:53 but it has a core2duo 2.8GHz and an extra 1TB in it now Nov 30 10:52:00 sounds good Nov 30 10:52:07 .. what kind of link is it on anyway? Nov 30 10:52:16 comcast commerical line Nov 30 10:52:21 i think 16/2 Nov 30 10:52:33 something like that Nov 30 10:52:37 k Nov 30 10:52:55 maybe faster.. who knows :) Nov 30 10:52:56 i'm sure it can fit in the infrastructure :P right now we're waiting a bit for fremantle sdk Nov 30 10:53:12 well... i'll give you root on the vm Nov 30 10:53:15 and to be sure, quotas on traffic? Nov 30 10:53:17 after that you can take it from there Nov 30 10:53:18 haha Nov 30 10:53:25 no quotas Nov 30 10:53:27 k Nov 30 10:53:28 it's a commercial line Nov 30 10:53:32 got it for just that reason ;) Nov 30 10:53:39 i've bankrupted hosting companies in the past on my other open source project :P Nov 30 10:53:45 HAHA Nov 30 10:53:53 well.. it will only go as fast as you allow it ;) Nov 30 10:54:00 you have 934872394837 people downloading shit off the 2mbit line.. Nov 30 10:54:04 it's not going to make for a good day haha Nov 30 10:54:13 cos they didn't think a 1.4mb download of an ircd could make that much traffic Nov 30 10:54:23 hahah Nov 30 10:54:25 sure it could Nov 30 10:54:30 if enough people need ircd ;) Nov 30 10:55:08 just try to save me 128k of my upstream ;) Nov 30 10:55:16 ah Nov 30 10:55:18 so i don't hiccup when trying to check my email Nov 30 10:55:19 haha Nov 30 10:55:30 16/2, just noticed ;) Nov 30 10:55:34 yeah Nov 30 10:55:36 we'll figure out something to use it for :) Nov 30 10:55:37 2mbit isn't that much Nov 30 10:55:41 haha Nov 30 10:55:47 i have 1mbit on trac.tspre.org up Nov 30 10:55:48 :P Nov 30 10:55:58 where's it located? Nov 30 10:56:19 in .dk, in a server room, dorm :P Nov 30 10:56:23 ah Nov 30 10:56:24 dedicated 2/1 though Nov 30 10:56:38 heh.. well... Nov 30 10:56:52 might help to have a US spot Nov 30 10:57:02 anyways.. i'll work on the debian install in a bit Nov 30 10:57:05 k Nov 30 10:57:07 i'm moving my other VMs to the 1TB Nov 30 10:57:24 little shuttle has 1 80G and 1 1TB in it now Nov 30 10:57:27 hope the psu doesn't melt Nov 30 10:57:30 no rush, as said, sitting a bit ducks till fremantle comes out :P Nov 30 10:57:33 on a good UPS so shouldn't have any problems there Nov 30 10:57:34 (alpha sdk) Nov 30 10:57:37 ah Nov 30 10:57:42 ok... well... i'll let you know when it's up Nov 30 10:57:56 although.. you may have to tell me to set up my httpd to redirect to the VM Nov 30 10:58:05 any specific hostname you want for it? Nov 30 10:58:16 it would be xxx.rancorous.net Nov 30 10:58:16 nah, something 'mer' related possibly Nov 30 10:58:23 so mer.rancorous.net Nov 30 10:58:28 ok Nov 30 10:58:36 i'll set that up too after i'm done moving all this crap to the new hd Nov 30 10:58:43 i'll let you know when i'm done Nov 30 10:58:45 fine Nov 30 10:58:50 * Stskeeps continues compiling stuff :P Nov 30 10:58:55 heh Nov 30 10:59:51 Macer: http://merbuilder.jaiku.com/ Nov 30 11:00:29 has firefox become old and bloated and slow? Nov 30 11:00:35 yeah Nov 30 11:00:43 i recall when firefox was bloody speedy Nov 30 11:00:56 .. and when IE was faster than netscape Nov 30 11:01:05 yeah ive still got a 1.x branch at work Nov 30 11:01:25 haha Nov 30 11:01:38 ive just done a v simple test and my internet explorer 6 beats it! Nov 30 11:01:42 firefox kinda went the monolithic route Nov 30 11:01:43 the 3.x i mean Nov 30 11:01:47 at least opera is still around :) Nov 30 11:01:58 came from ie to ff Nov 30 11:02:43 i spent about 3 hours yesterday cleaning up tonnes of stuff only to discover its not my machine or fs Nov 30 11:02:56 this stuff really needs to hurry up and copy Nov 30 11:03:01 my zimbra server is down because of this :) Nov 30 11:03:08 Macer, firefox monolithic? wtf? Nov 30 11:03:26 anyway, good mornin chaps \o Nov 30 11:03:30 you meant the other way? Nov 30 11:03:41 hi lcuk Nov 30 11:03:41 qwerty12: how slow is the transparency? Nov 30 11:03:55 he said slow Nov 30 11:04:06 hehe Nov 30 11:04:07 no Nov 30 11:04:12 characterized by massiveness Nov 30 11:04:56 Stskeeps, Not very much tbh. Usable but there is a little delay. If you want to try it out, I could upload the two debs (xcompmgr is "toggableable" from the menu) Nov 30 11:04:58 my god this copying is killing me Nov 30 11:05:08 i need to get these damn VMs started back up :) Nov 30 11:05:22 qwerty12: maybe will later :P compiling a lot of stuff Nov 30 11:05:24 maybe i'll go smoke and when i come back.. they'll be done Nov 30 11:05:25 * lcuk has a lean mean win machine, everything else runs nicely ;) Nov 30 11:05:28 Stskeeps, hehe Nov 30 11:07:55 qwerty12, what does the fade actually fade from and to? Nov 30 11:08:08 could we use it to fade between background images? Nov 30 11:08:36 lcuk, no idea, I've never used xcompmgr before, I've only noticed it fading in the on screen keyboard & menus so far Nov 30 11:08:39 (on idle during charging) Nov 30 11:09:40 mpd. can't beat it. Nov 30 11:10:26 can. xmms2 Nov 30 11:10:37 Nah, xmms2 was never to my taste Nov 30 11:10:56 uhm, servers are a matter of taste now? :P Nov 30 11:11:39 Yes :P. I like the range of clients and programs for mpd etc Nov 30 11:12:30 yup, that xmms2 can't beat yet Nov 30 11:12:42 Plus after compiling ~30 dependencies for moar features, you'll be hard pushed to change my mind :P Nov 30 11:12:45 unfortunately, mpd has a sucky audio output Nov 30 11:13:02 the deps are similar Nov 30 11:13:09 yeah, on the tablets I have to get it to use libao which sends it to esd :/ Nov 30 11:13:18 be nice if it could just send to esd directly Nov 30 11:13:41 you can Nov 30 11:13:54 I use it for pulse on my machine Nov 30 11:14:04 *used Nov 30 11:14:12 * Stskeeps looks forward to pulseaudio on tablets. Nov 30 11:14:30 oh, on the computer. Yeah, I used to use pulseaudio in one of my past ubuntu installs but took me ages to set up :/ Nov 30 11:14:38 * AStorm looks forward to proper ALSA Nov 30 11:14:55 ages? it's 5 minutes Nov 30 11:15:25 Getting as much apps as you can to use pulse natively? Nov 30 11:15:32 yes Nov 30 11:15:40 the worst was actually mpd Nov 30 11:15:56 and some portaudio apps Nov 30 11:16:05 worst for me was flash. stupid wrapper would cause firefox to crash Nov 30 11:16:40 fixed now :) Nov 30 11:17:45 anyone know a kernel arg to specify keyboard type ? Nov 30 11:18:04 or a list of kernel args or how I can obtain one ? Nov 30 11:18:12 Ah, cool! It's tempting to try pulseaudio and get this back again: http://i25.tinypic.com/35i50uf.png :P Nov 30 11:18:13 .. maybe you should start by telling what you're trying to codo Nov 30 11:18:14 Id imagine there would be a file somewhere Nov 30 11:18:17 , todo Nov 30 11:18:35 Stskeeps, its not maemo related really Nov 30 11:18:39 ;-p Nov 30 11:20:44 nah,. compiz sucks Nov 30 11:21:02 I actually meant nvidia sucks :P Nov 30 11:21:07 ATI here :) Nov 30 11:21:15 game framerate is cut in half Nov 30 11:21:18 Though a shitty IGP >.< Nov 30 11:21:41 cube is pointless Nov 30 11:21:43 unusable Nov 30 11:21:44 * RST38h has got a trident Nov 30 11:22:03 Heh, I remember the time when everyone was advocating NVDIA for Linux... Nov 30 11:22:10 so, there is NO game framerate Nov 30 11:22:14 a trident or the trident? Nov 30 11:22:21 :P Nov 30 11:22:22 a Nov 30 11:22:47 or I would use it on a few people Nov 30 11:22:50 RST38h, I used to have an nvidia riva tnt2 :P. 32MB memory! Nov 30 11:23:13 ah, tnt at least supports 3d Nov 30 11:23:25 I used to have S3 Savage 4 :P Nov 30 11:23:43 pity S3 folded so quickly Nov 30 11:23:47 I have the Epson LCD controller! Nov 30 11:24:25 r0xx0r! Nov 30 11:24:35 * AStorm too Nov 30 11:24:46 well at least it does hw scaling Nov 30 11:24:58 * slonopotamus hates configure scripts Nov 30 11:25:09 I have a 1bit diode framebuffer :P Nov 30 11:25:19 RST38h, it does hardware dynamic scaling as well - i identified a mode ages ago which turns it into a lens Nov 30 11:25:20 fun project, that one Nov 30 11:25:31 * slonopotamus 10kb app + 700kb configure script. idiocy. Nov 30 11:25:50 lcuk, :D Nov 30 11:26:14 slonopotamus, that's autoconf for you Nov 30 11:26:19 it should die Nov 30 11:26:21 * lcuk reboots Nov 30 11:26:32 autoconf is good and its bad, i cant use it :( Nov 30 11:26:48 conditional compilation is evil Nov 30 11:27:19 slonopotamus, not always... win32 is different enough to warrant some Nov 30 11:27:46 make standard lib and write apps against it Nov 30 11:27:58 without any conditionals Nov 30 11:28:15 yeah right Nov 30 11:28:24 it's called cygwin? Nov 30 11:28:26 :P Nov 30 11:28:34 only c/cpp has this troubles Nov 30 11:28:40 these Nov 30 11:28:42 yup Nov 30 11:28:56 bad lib design? Nov 30 11:29:57 you mean, stdlib from 60s? yup Nov 30 11:30:06 java, for example, doesn't have preprocessor at all Nov 30 11:30:48 and many languages too Nov 30 11:31:00 yes Nov 30 11:31:12 and that doesn't prevent then from writing good software Nov 30 11:31:14 cpp is an old hack Nov 30 11:31:51 just moaning, don't mind Nov 30 11:32:21 let us know when you stop moaning so we can un /ignore you Nov 30 11:32:27 :P Nov 30 11:32:31 :D Nov 30 11:33:07 i just had my first go on rockband Nov 30 11:33:22 tracy said i got the bike face Nov 30 11:34:11 morning all Nov 30 11:34:16 morning Nov 30 11:34:25 hiya Nov 30 11:34:30 ello lardman Nov 30 11:35:00 hey chaps Nov 30 11:35:17 Am just taking a look at baddu's opengl-on-dsp code Nov 30 11:35:32 now THAT makes me smile Nov 30 11:35:44 you have a buildable gl? (on any processor!) Nov 30 11:36:04 vincent? Nov 30 11:36:08 opengl-es then Nov 30 11:36:08 opengl-on-dsp? Nov 30 11:36:20 lardman, needs full thing, not just vincent Nov 30 11:36:37 dammit Nov 30 11:36:38 we couldnt get a from source system setup Nov 30 11:36:42 ah well, just opengl es then for starters Nov 30 11:36:45 browserd crashed... again Nov 30 11:36:59 lardman :D Nov 30 11:37:07 * Stskeeps is curious what lardman is talking about :P Nov 30 11:37:28 I've emailed baddu and suggested he starts a garage project as I'm sure at least a few people will be interested in this Nov 30 11:37:35 i am intruiged by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter Nov 30 11:37:49 oh yes Nov 30 11:37:49 uhm? he implemented a shader pipeline on dsp? Nov 30 11:37:59 AStorm: not sure yet Nov 30 11:38:10 but its dsp, so the dev size shrinks :( Nov 30 11:38:34 but its opengl so i will cheer you on every step of the way :D Nov 30 11:38:37 yeah but it's just C/C++ code, the dspgateway stuff can be hidden away Nov 30 11:38:48 not on device though Nov 30 11:38:56 yes it can Nov 30 11:39:05 isn't a 3d accelerator just a glorified DSP anyway? Nov 30 11:39:06 full build system on device? Nov 30 11:39:08 yes Nov 30 11:39:17 lcuk: ah, ok not build system Nov 30 11:39:19 and a dsp is just a glorified arm Nov 30 11:39:47 hey simon, i got over a major sticking point in my code last night Nov 30 11:40:00 dsp has specialisms, macs and the like, lots of numeric-helping microcode/extra registers, that sort of thing afaik Nov 30 11:40:11 lcuk: what was that? Nov 30 11:40:27 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24821&page=10 Nov 30 11:40:31 scroll down, theres pictures Nov 30 11:45:15 dsp is a specialized arm :) Nov 30 11:45:33 arm is a specialized leg Nov 30 11:45:38 and not using it is just a waste of 133 MHz Nov 30 11:45:41 :P Nov 30 11:45:53 yes, sitting idle is a waste Nov 30 11:46:35 well not really, as the DSP can be switched off completely Nov 30 11:46:49 but it would be good to be able to use it for more stuff of course :) Nov 30 11:46:54 yeah deffo Nov 30 11:47:20 which do you prefer by the way, handwriting or ttf Nov 30 11:47:29 me? Nov 30 11:47:33 typing Nov 30 11:48:33 lardman, i mean the handwriting font - it is still typed - its just a font but YOUR handwriting Nov 30 11:48:47 ah ok Nov 30 11:49:35 ouch, my handwriting is less legible Nov 30 11:49:39 and takes more space Nov 30 11:50:12 astorm, its scalable Nov 30 11:50:50 i was looking at a variation engine initially, make x boxes each with a sketch and show all variations of a certain tag Nov 30 11:53:49 ? Nov 30 11:54:21 lc Nov 30 11:54:37 lol Nov 30 11:54:54 AStorm, the handwriting font thing didnt start as handwriting Nov 30 11:54:55 well, my handwriting scaled would be illegible Nov 30 11:54:59 it was just me playing Nov 30 11:55:05 ahhh - but it would Nov 30 11:55:20 you can read your handwriting at different distances from your eyes cant you.. Nov 30 11:56:24 to some limit Nov 30 11:56:33 not at 9pt Nov 30 11:56:37 heh Nov 30 11:57:05 that would be the equivalent of 2m distance Nov 30 11:57:40 heh, what if i got celebs to supply their handwriting Nov 30 11:57:42 or doctors Nov 30 11:58:34 yeah mine's pretty bad ;) Nov 30 11:58:53 ahhh excellent "Fonts by Community Council member lardman" Nov 30 11:59:03 or should i say sfjkhawefuiesrg Nov 30 11:59:09 :P Nov 30 11:59:26 my god luke hasnt stopped with rockband all morning Nov 30 11:59:48 at least modern drums are quieter than real drums :) Nov 30 12:00:58 lcuk, no, they aren't Nov 30 12:01:12 where can I read a good technical overview of opengl (es)? Nov 30 12:01:23 which aspect si Nov 30 12:01:33 the api or usage Nov 30 12:01:52 http://www.opengl.org/documentation/ Nov 30 12:01:57 api I suppose, what sorts of data are passed Nov 30 12:02:18 good stuff, thanks Nov 30 12:02:44 need faster internet on tablets Nov 30 12:02:47 and leave one in bathroom Nov 30 12:02:55 but you cant rip pages off it in an emergency Nov 30 12:04:06 certainly need faster internet, not sure about the rest :) Nov 30 12:04:14 lol Nov 30 12:05:02 i started to pull in the core libraries and methods for parsing text yesterday Nov 30 12:11:19 Morning, all Nov 30 12:14:03 hi Jaffa Nov 30 12:16:17 hiya jaffa Nov 30 12:23:54 <`Mace> well Nov 30 12:23:59 <`Mace> let's see about installing debian Nov 30 12:24:00 <`Mace> blah Nov 30 12:24:12 heh, microsoft are rethinking software rendering :D http://games.slashdot.org/games/08/11/29/2058259.shtml Nov 30 12:27:14 lcuk, I see it as "take that, Intel" Nov 30 12:27:22 yup i do as well Nov 30 12:27:25 <`Mace> haha Nov 30 12:27:40 <`Mace> wtf is wrong with crysis? Nov 30 12:27:58 of course the example crysis is just silly numbers, its for glass but it it shows its possible Nov 30 12:27:59 <`Mace> i mean seriously.. even the newest of the new cards seem to not work very well at playing it Nov 30 12:28:28 <`Mace> screw that. it's all about quake 3 arena Nov 30 12:28:40 <`Mace> Stskeeps - you around? Nov 30 12:28:44 * lcuk is more a ut99 fan Nov 30 12:28:55 <`Mace> i honestly never played it Nov 30 12:28:58 ultimately, they fail Nov 30 12:29:00 <`Mace> although i think that q3 kinda sucked Nov 30 12:29:01 i still play it Nov 30 12:29:14 and portal :D Nov 30 12:29:15 <`Mace> quake 1 was probably the most balanced Nov 30 12:29:16 I find ut more to my taste Nov 30 12:29:27 although q3 has its charm Nov 30 12:29:29 <`Mace> just because you could rocket jump heh Nov 30 12:29:35 hated what they did to ut - they seem to have found mojo recently though Nov 30 12:29:43 <`Mace> q3 made it extremely difficult to aim Nov 30 12:29:46 hehe Nov 30 12:29:55 eight-core i7 Nov 30 12:30:05 <`Mace> is that an actual 8 core? Nov 30 12:30:10 suckers should try doing it on omap2 Nov 30 12:30:12 almost beat intel integrated vieo Nov 30 12:30:12 <`Mace> or is it a ht 4 core? Nov 30 12:30:15 `Mace, sucking at rj? lol Nov 30 12:30:17 hehe Nov 30 12:30:20 they dont know the meaning of constrained Nov 30 12:30:22 `Mace: 4core with ht Nov 30 12:30:27 `Mace: mm? Nov 30 12:30:29 :> Nov 30 12:30:32 <`Mace> heh Nov 30 12:30:33 egs, oooh ht Nov 30 12:30:38 <`Mace> Stskeeps - how much space do you need? Nov 30 12:30:56 lcuk, I think the DSP would beat intel's junk Nov 30 12:30:57 :P Nov 30 12:31:08 `Mace: er, how much are you willing to give? :P 5-10gb? Nov 30 12:31:10 i think a dead squirrel would beat intel mobos Nov 30 12:31:13 <`Mace> er Nov 30 12:31:18 <`Mace> so 400 would be ok? Nov 30 12:31:19 <`Mace> heh Nov 30 12:31:23 er. 400gb? Nov 30 12:31:26 <`Mace> yeah Nov 30 12:31:35 .. i think you can set it to 100gb while we're negotiating Nov 30 12:31:35 :P Nov 30 12:31:45 more than enough for quite a while Nov 30 12:31:46 <`Mace> 5 - 10? .. you living in 1992? :) Nov 30 12:31:54 hmm, any nice laptop with cheap ht multicore, and power efficient too? Nov 30 12:31:58 <`Mace> i like to think future.. i'll give you 250 for now Nov 30 12:32:02 .. okay Nov 30 12:32:03 <`Mace> if you need more i'll give you space on my fs Nov 30 12:32:08 k Nov 30 12:32:14 AStorm, theres a nokia tablet you might be interested in Nov 30 12:32:16 <`Mace> i'm going to work on the debian install now Nov 30 12:32:21 its multicore Nov 30 12:32:22 lcuk, I have one Nov 30 12:32:34 no hnt though Nov 30 12:32:36 <`Mace> Stskeeps - you want debian? Nov 30 12:32:37 *ht Nov 30 12:32:39 :P Nov 30 12:32:40 <`Mace> or would some other distro be better? Nov 30 12:32:48 `Mace: it's debian or ubuntu server.. ubuntu server may be better with our work Nov 30 12:32:51 8-core i7 is a little bit quicker then integrated graphics. hehe. didn't they compare the price? Nov 30 12:33:04 <`Mace> hm. Nov 30 12:33:14 but it doesn't matter since it's all chroot stuff Nov 30 12:33:17 anyway, back later ive got some coding to do Nov 30 12:33:28 look at me still talking then theres science to do D: Nov 30 12:33:30 <`Mace> hm.. i'll use ubuntu server then Nov 30 12:33:32 mmm Nov 30 12:33:34 :D even Nov 30 12:33:57 is there compiz in ubuntu server? :) Nov 30 12:34:34 it doesn't matter when we access with ssh.. Nov 30 12:34:34 :P Nov 30 12:34:39 lcuk, same... after some unfortunate shopping :/ Nov 30 12:34:51 no compiz over ssh?! Nov 30 12:35:25 man, then it's not better then old debian ;) Nov 30 12:35:29 than Nov 30 12:36:47 compiz over ssh? wtf? Nov 30 13:13:14 xmas shopping beckons :( Nov 30 13:16:22 m00f Nov 30 13:16:57 foom Nov 30 13:17:08 oomf Nov 30 13:17:28 fmoo Nov 30 13:22:30 lardman|out, dont mention x-mas lol Nov 30 13:22:36 what if my maemo/extra package has a runtime depency on xsltproc, which is in maemo/sdk repo, does the autogenerated .install files add this repo? Nov 30 13:29:20 johnx: hildon-desktop is bootstrapped in repo btw, and on lp:~carsten-munk/m-r/hildon-desktop Nov 30 13:29:30 ah, beat me to it Nov 30 13:29:36 I just got back to my apartment Nov 30 13:29:40 armel build is in progress Nov 30 13:30:18 so you pulled in start-hildon and killed off dependency on osso-af-init and hildon-initscripts I assume? Nov 30 13:32:16 nah, just to level where it builds and libhildondesktop-dev is installable for launcher Nov 30 13:32:32 almost straight from svn tag Nov 30 13:33:05 juf Nov 30 13:33:19 ah, so then it won't install without those I think Nov 30 13:33:23 just needs hacking now Nov 30 13:33:27 yeah Nov 30 13:34:11 just branch mine i guess Nov 30 13:35:20 ok, sounds good Nov 30 13:37:46 but im just sitting ducks till fremantle alpha sdk comes out Nov 30 13:39:25 k, h-d is built for armel too Nov 30 13:40:22 feel free to use builder, follow directions in blueprint, (upload source package, /import-new-packages on server, and say "build srcpackage" on #merbuilder on jaiku) Nov 30 13:47:35 <`Mace> sts Nov 30 13:47:43 <`Mace> you want this ubuntu server install to use auto updates? :) Nov 30 13:50:09 <`Mace> nevermind.. i just chose no. Nov 30 13:50:10 <`Mace> heh Nov 30 13:51:32 <`Mace> i might have to drop your RAM % .. you'll probably only get 512-1G Nov 30 13:51:44 yeah, that's fine Nov 30 13:56:57 <`Mace> heh Nov 30 13:57:13 <`Mace> johnx - you're both working on this mer stuff right? Nov 30 13:57:39 yeah, but right now Stskeeps is doing most of the work. just saying, that it shouldn't matter Nov 30 13:58:02 <`Mace> well.. ijust wanted you to set up the ubuntu box ;) Nov 30 13:58:06 koos: no, your extras apps should only have dependencies on packages which are part of the system install, or available in extras. Nov 30 13:58:18 koos: if you depend on xsltproc, you'll have to put it in extras Nov 30 13:59:23 Jaffa: thanks, I'll do that then Nov 30 14:00:17 Jaffa: btw, can I just take the same one from /sdk, ie no version change? Nov 30 14:01:32 Nov 30 14:02:15 koos: should be ok, I think Nov 30 14:08:41 damn damn damn damn Nov 30 14:11:27 They should just fold the Tools repo into Extras. Nov 30 14:11:41 Who do we need to talk to to make that happen? :/ Nov 30 14:11:45 * lcuk tears someone elses hair out (to save his own) Nov 30 14:15:03 GAN800: We tried already and there was some Nokia pushback/washing hands of it Nov 30 14:26:58 Jaffa, I'm not convinced we got all the way to the source Nov 30 14:32:55 i cant get this 800 updated Nov 30 14:34:13 gonna confirm it works when i connect via normal disk mode Nov 30 14:34:48 lcuk, pull mine Nov 30 14:34:56 * LinuxCode smears some curry into his hair Nov 30 14:35:02 ;-p Nov 30 14:35:02 mmmmm yummy Nov 30 14:35:06 lol Nov 30 14:35:09 ;-p Nov 30 14:35:27 actualy wasnt that yummy Nov 30 14:35:33 i wanted a madras but they didnt have one Nov 30 14:37:00 i thought you would be more like a mild korma (with extra cream) Nov 30 14:37:43 ahhh usb is on the fritz mm Nov 30 14:38:52 no, it adds the 2 drives Nov 30 14:39:22 and drops them if i unplug - right, thats working. any mojo required to update an n800 with windows flasher? Nov 30 14:40:24 Save yourself from pain & just use the linux flasher. windows' one involves installing shit like bb5 drivers Nov 30 14:42:12 * qwerty12_N800 dreads booting into vista. i know that there will be a backlog of updates waiting for me :/ Nov 30 14:42:35 same usb port finds my n810 correctly first time Nov 30 14:42:46 its waiting now Nov 30 14:44:24 mmmm thats odd then Nov 30 14:44:38 lcuk, if you insist, run cmd and run the following: set devmgr_show_nonpresent_devices=1 , start devmgmt.msc and choose show all devices from view menu and uninstall the stuff like nokia phone adl parent, bb5 etc Nov 30 14:45:01 thanks :) i do insist Nov 30 14:49:03 Windows. . . . Nov 30 14:50:32 ~windows Nov 30 14:50:34 rumour has it, windows is either a 64bit hack on the 32 bit hack or just a 32 bit hack on a 16 bit operating system, originally designed for an 8 bit CPU, with a 4 bit system bus, made by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition... or the World of Warcraft bootloader, or the most important collection of bugs, or bloatware, or an operating system Nov 30 14:50:58 hehe Nov 30 14:51:16 guess he couldn't take the windows bashing? Nov 30 14:52:31 shame that 0xffff didn't work in windows last time when i hacked it enough to compile in cygwin :/ Nov 30 14:55:44 Hi, do you know how to do page up and page down on N810 Nov 30 14:56:29 I'm on a windows pc right now, and i don't mind the bashing Nov 30 14:56:49 poo Nov 30 14:56:54 moo Nov 30 14:56:58 foo Nov 30 14:57:38 ~flashing Nov 30 14:57:39 it has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Nov 30 14:57:40 I will admit the only real reason I'm on windows is I havnt taken the time to put linux on this new laptop Nov 30 15:00:00 Do you know how to do page up on N810 please Nov 30 15:01:58 drwx, if someone knows they'll respond, no need to repeat quite so often Nov 30 15:02:26 I should probably stop posting from this thinf Nov 30 15:02:34 s/thinf/thing/ Nov 30 15:02:34 GAN800 meant: I should probably stop posting from this thing Nov 30 15:02:57 The finger keyboard makes me flammier than I intend to be. :P Nov 30 15:03:05 GAN800, the lack of *anyone* even making positive noises about a community supported edition hurts Nov 30 15:03:42 johnx, I'm gonna address THAT point later. . . . Nov 30 15:03:53 Hi andrewfblack. :) Nov 30 15:04:05 just, please don't stir people up too much about it Nov 30 15:06:19 johnx, I was just planning on point at the activity. :p Nov 30 15:06:35 hmm, in that case give me a couple days :) Nov 30 15:08:19 hmm Nov 30 15:08:38 s/hmm/hmmm/ Nov 30 15:08:38 slonopotamus meant: hmmm Nov 30 15:09:12 s/\//\// Nov 30 15:10:00 hmm Nov 30 15:14:30 * Stskeeps wonders what's going on now :P Nov 30 15:17:07 johnx: quim seems positive about variants, atleast, and keeps on referring to it :P Nov 30 15:18:23 Stskeeps, the issue is the idiots on itT. :P Nov 30 15:18:27 hehe Nov 30 15:18:36 yeah, which is nice. having the diablo desktop with fremantle-level libs is probably a realistic goal Nov 30 15:18:36 it's easier to discuss than do something Nov 30 15:22:35 Stskeeps, well, rant and foam at the mouth. ;) Nov 30 15:24:59 johnx: did you use maemo gtk in beta2 btw? Nov 30 15:25:12 * Stskeeps never tried out beta2 so has no idea the level of functionality it had Nov 30 15:25:31 I used all debian packages Nov 30 15:25:49 that was before I realized the extent of changes in the gtk library Nov 30 15:26:13 ah Nov 30 15:26:40 functionality was ok, but the system was a minefield. install a debian package and it would just overwrite random stuff I had hacked into place by hand Nov 30 15:26:56 it was more "demo" than "proof of concept" Nov 30 15:27:28 Input was the real killer for out-of-the-box for me. Nov 30 15:27:37 ah, well that too Nov 30 15:27:40 heh Nov 30 15:27:43 * GAN800 stabs Matchbox keyboard Nov 30 15:28:02 GAN800: you have impressive skill in typing on your on screen keyboard, i must say Nov 30 15:28:10 lol Nov 30 15:28:16 Lotta practice Nov 30 15:28:40 I'd be better if it weren't for the myriad of bugs that slow me down. Nov 30 15:29:53 I've still never really used the one that comes with the device. Nov 30 15:30:42 vkb? Nov 30 15:30:57 I hate that thing. qwerty12 is insane for using it. Nov 30 15:31:04 qwerty12_N800, Nov 30 15:31:11 lol Nov 30 15:31:35 I use maemocjk. Nov 30 15:31:44 ah, matchbox-keyboard :) Nov 30 15:31:47 Multitouch would reduce the number of phantom returns. :/ Nov 30 15:31:59 GAN800 = hater :P Nov 30 15:32:07 Woo Woo Nov 30 15:51:33 Stskeeps, I'm signed up on launchpad (finally, I know). What do I have to do to be able to push to mer's bzr? Nov 30 16:01:35 hi Nov 30 16:01:57 do you know who is responsible for the maemo-sdk-vm on m.garage? Nov 30 16:02:30 thopiekar, nope, isnt there a contact page on the garage Nov 30 16:02:48 but whats up with it Nov 30 16:04:29 i just wanna make some how-to's and help other people here in germany working with it... so i even wanted to ask the publishers to get multi-language support Nov 30 16:05:23 something like the ubuntu's language-changing-dialog on the first start of the vm Nov 30 16:05:49 and multilanguge-support in eclipse would be useful Nov 30 16:05:50 .. Nov 30 16:05:52 well i think theres other problems first isnt there - is it still using the chinook build stuff Nov 30 16:06:31 johnx: nothing Nov 30 16:06:44 johnx: bzr push lp:~yourusername/m-r/packagename Nov 30 16:07:39 and bzr merge to grab from your upstream Nov 30 16:07:42 ah, awesome Nov 30 16:08:00 i started myself to make a own vm.. but i stopped working on it because i remembered that there is something on m.garage... Nov 30 16:08:37 vm or wm? Nov 30 16:08:46 ah Nov 30 16:08:48 vm Nov 30 16:08:49 ^^ Nov 30 16:08:51 nm :) Nov 30 16:10:02 johnx: and the ease of uploadign and publishing branches is one positive side of lp i guess Nov 30 16:10:18 johnx: ~johnx on there? Nov 30 16:10:27 John Bloom I think? Nov 30 16:11:30 well, you have a username Nov 30 16:11:50 ah, gave me johnxx from my email I guess Nov 30 16:11:53 k Nov 30 16:12:06 johnx: remember bzr whoami btw Nov 30 16:12:31 yeah, gotta fix my bzr settings :/ Nov 30 16:16:04 * Stskeeps still isn't fond of launchpad Nov 30 16:16:23 too unstable Nov 30 16:16:30 unstable? really? Nov 30 16:16:45 "https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/tags/maemo-af-desktop-l10n/3.0-2r4480/", unstable bzr, etc.. Nov 30 16:17:16 lcuk, it was updated a while ago. . . Nov 30 16:17:26 ok thanks Nov 30 16:19:13 Stskeeps, ok, just as you said that it died trying to update my location :/ Nov 30 16:29:29 er, odd paste Nov 30 16:34:33 * Stskeeps takes a look at the donated space from Macer Nov 30 16:41:53 * Stskeeps notes launchpad is as slow as maemo.org when the 770s were running it Nov 30 16:43:59 ! Nov 30 16:44:03 The interpid version of ubuntu-mobile does not use hildon-desktop or matchbox-window-manager at all! Nov 30 16:44:22 yes Nov 30 16:44:46 Meiz_n810: hm? Nov 30 16:44:59 * Stskeeps didn't know that Nov 30 16:45:02 what does it use then? Nov 30 16:45:04 so, we can have both maemo-desktop and u-m desktop on jaunty Nov 30 16:45:22 ideally, i guess Nov 30 16:45:32 it uses gnome things Nov 30 16:45:33 k Nov 30 16:45:38 like gnome-panel... Nov 30 16:46:02 sounds slow :P Nov 30 16:46:15 Ah, now the thread has come full circle. Nov 30 16:46:17 it seems to use openbox... Nov 30 16:47:30 but yeah, switching between DE's could be neat Nov 30 16:47:55 not sure about openbox Nov 30 16:48:10 "my nokia can be anything i want: android, ubuntu mobile, maemo, gnome, kde, fluxbox, .. or windows" Nov 30 16:48:41 open platform, open device Nov 30 16:48:41 :P Nov 30 16:49:34 i wanna try u-m on my ubuntu-box, how to start it? Nov 30 16:56:47 Meiz_n810: no clue :P Nov 30 16:57:11 * Meiz_n810 is now asking from ubuntu -channels... Nov 30 17:00:27 kind of nice to be commiting to my own space. At least I don't have to worry about stepping on other people's toes :) Nov 30 17:00:51 hehe Nov 30 17:01:10 forgot how fast my desktop was, re: compiling Nov 30 17:01:58 i guess it helps a bit in development that we also build for i386 Nov 30 17:02:26 anyways, I think I re-re-debianized hildon-desktop successfully Nov 30 17:03:25 still using launcher? Nov 30 17:04:02 Have you been adding variants-related bugs to the wiki? Nov 30 17:04:34 it appears not Nov 30 17:04:47 fairly easy to add Nov 30 17:05:08 just a tweak to configure? Nov 30 17:05:13 sec Nov 30 17:05:20 I wonder if it affects the way it's started Nov 30 17:05:52 I'll just diff your rules with mine Nov 30 17:06:26 alright Nov 30 17:06:56 GAN800: we have them partly documented in our bzr branches and our jaiku log Nov 30 17:07:24 so far they're not that rough really Nov 30 17:07:26 hmm, in debian's package, maemo-launcher support is you export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=maemo-launcher Nov 30 17:07:42 I assume we want it on all the time Nov 30 17:07:46 yeah Nov 30 17:07:53 now that we have the package bootstrapped Nov 30 17:08:06 Stskeeps, put it on the wiki. :p Nov 30 17:08:48 GAN800: the real issue is when we start investigating architecture.. which relies on us knowing how fremantle looks Nov 30 17:08:54 as we'll be beating a dead horse Nov 30 17:08:57 +else Nov 30 17:09:23 real issue appears Nov 30 17:09:40 fremantle arch, / alpha sdk Nov 30 17:09:56 didja know there's a new Garnet VM beta for nseries? Nov 30 17:10:03 yep Nov 30 17:10:04 :) Nov 30 17:10:06 it's almost got me wondering.. WHY? Nov 30 17:10:07 * aquatix got an email Nov 30 17:10:14 didn't stop me from installing it tho = Nov 30 17:10:18 =) Nov 30 17:10:25 myeah, there are 30000+ palm apps Nov 30 17:10:34 so it's nice to be able to run some Nov 30 17:10:38 for example medical ones Nov 30 17:10:51 yah, i still have a Treo700p Nov 30 17:10:52 or the PIM ones if you're really attached to them ;) Nov 30 17:10:56 emulation is the future :) Nov 30 17:11:07 i love the Palm PIMs Nov 30 17:11:17 emulation bah, abstraction! =) Nov 30 17:11:39 what kind of medical palm apps are there? Nov 30 17:11:44 Stskeeps, I'm gonna get some sleep before I try and reconcile debian's "rules" with maemo's "rules" Nov 30 17:11:59 l7: lots of documentation and calculation stuff iirc Nov 30 17:12:15 hrm, i guess that might be handy for doctors Nov 30 17:12:20 indeed Nov 30 17:12:21 johnx: alright, gnite Nov 30 17:12:30 and for all kinds of other medical personel Nov 30 17:14:57 yeah, i guess it could help them go paperless Nov 30 17:15:22 i wonder if anyone has tried switching a hospital to palm devices Nov 30 17:15:55 it seems like they might need something with more power like a tablet pc though Nov 30 17:16:00 or a n900 Nov 30 17:18:00 allright... meta-package "ubuntu-mobile" installs gnome with the "Xandros style launcher" and installing kourou installs hildon etc... So we won't be able to have maemo-desktop and u-m on Mer at the same time. :( Nov 30 17:23:38 Dropbear spam Nov 30 17:23:56 Somebody needs to show Matt what a metapackage is. . . . Nov 30 17:25:24 Meiz_n810: well ubuntu-mobile is what the new u-m is then i guess Nov 30 17:26:11 "According to Stu, a netbook with a 10-inch screen is "fine for an hour. It's not something you're going to use day in and day out." Nov 30 17:26:16 i wonder if they're referring to the battery time.. Nov 30 17:26:23 qwerty12, you're kidding with that gFTP description, right? <_< Nov 30 17:26:38 Your regex is showing. . . . :p Nov 30 17:27:02 Stskeeps: it sounds like they're talking about productivity Nov 30 17:27:23 all some people do is surf the web and webmail though Nov 30 17:27:28 Still haven't heard back from mvo about the translations. Nov 30 17:27:35 GAN800, Looks fine to me. Nov 30 17:27:41 Needs to finish that up this week. Nov 30 17:28:00 qwerty12, yes, well, you're a crazy person. ;) Nov 30 17:28:15 Stskeeps: they are still devenloping the "old" ubuntu-mobile, but maybe it is more mobiln related... Nov 30 17:28:16 l7: i could easily imagine situations where simply being able to drag windows from my desktop to my tablet would be useful Nov 30 17:28:17 I have no plans on changing it so... Nov 30 17:28:32 Meiz_n810: well you have to consider moblin ditched ubuntu as base Nov 30 17:28:40 Stskeeps, did I even get an updated Location & Navigation translation from you? Nov 30 17:28:51 Stskeeps: oh yeah i would do most of my surfing on the couch from a tablet for starters Nov 30 17:29:00 or email reading Nov 30 17:29:05 GAN800: well there was the whole discussion about Location :P Nov 30 17:29:06 qwerty12, would you accept a patch? :P Nov 30 17:29:25 Maybe. :P Nov 30 17:29:30 Stskeeps, RST38h's solution was reasonable. Nov 30 17:29:47 which was what again? Nov 30 17:29:51 The long description was from debian actually, I never changed that Nov 30 17:29:55 position? Nov 30 17:29:57 ah Nov 30 17:30:47 qwerty12, why do you need to tell people it's a GTK application in the pretty name? Nov 30 17:30:50 * Stskeeps asks away Nov 30 17:31:40 GAN800, because there is also the gftp-common & gftp-text packages. I don't want people to get confused (Not much chance, I know...) Nov 30 17:32:09 Should be zero chance if the others aren't in user/ :P Nov 30 17:32:58 konttori_, ping? Nov 30 17:35:21 I wonder if integration@maemo.org actually points anywhere Nov 30 17:35:36 It should really be a nokia.com address. Nov 30 17:36:17 GAN800, maemo integration release the source to their stuff :P Nov 30 17:37:45 Clearly I would know who it is if it were actually a community package Nov 30 17:38:03 since I don't, it's clearly not. :P Nov 30 17:38:19 and therefore doesn't belong on a community address. Nov 30 17:38:51 :P, I associate nokia with all the closed source evil stuff and Maemo.org with the good stuff :D Nov 30 17:41:34 s/Maemo.org/maemo.org/g :P Nov 30 17:41:58 Ah, right. So Maemo on its own is capitalised right? :) Nov 30 17:41:59 Don't need Nokia soiling our good name? ;) Nov 30 17:42:04 Right Nov 30 17:42:08 Skeen Nov 30 17:54:45 http://partiwm.org/browser/README.xpra <- interesting Nov 30 17:54:55 could make some interesting tech demo with that Nov 30 17:56:13 .. ok, it's kinda like vnc instead Nov 30 17:56:49 ah, ok, not Nov 30 18:08:37 re Nov 30 18:08:59 wb Nov 30 18:09:34 ty Nov 30 18:13:53 moo, all Nov 30 18:22:17 http://gizmodo.com/5100065/calling-all-wannabe-dr-evils-super-secret-london-tunnel-lair-for-sale <=== Anybody willing to donate $8 million? Nov 30 18:32:41 are there any word processing and spreadsheet apps for the n800? Nov 30 18:36:59 Ro-oR: Gnumeric Nov 30 18:37:14 And Abiword for word processing, when somebody intelligent finally finishes it Nov 30 18:38:01 lol Nov 30 18:38:12 thanks ill look into it Nov 30 18:38:39 RST maybe you can help me with this also Nov 30 18:39:12 lardman: hello Nov 30 18:39:13 would the WEP be located on the actuall router? for instance my linksys router Nov 30 18:51:46 GAN800: pong Nov 30 18:54:25 Ro-oR: Last known location of the WEP is in your pants Nov 30 18:54:35 [translation: invalid question] Nov 30 18:58:42 and to think i was dealing with educated linux user, who am i fooling Nov 30 19:01:02 Ro9u3oR: this isn't a support channel though. WEP/WPA/etc settings for your wireless network is configured at your wireless router Nov 30 19:01:59 Thanks St.. any support channels you would like to mention? Nov 30 19:03:05 http://www.tabletscene.com/forums/ or http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums Nov 30 19:04:18 konttori_, you know anything about the Maemo control packages? USBNet, system services, etc. Nov 30 19:04:21 RST38h, my typical answer is "in your body, somewhere near your back office.... deeper..." Nov 30 19:04:36 The maintainer is set to 'integration@maemo.org' Nov 30 19:05:30 GAN800: sorry. I assume they are coming from the nokia integration, so probably provided by relevant teams and then the nokia integrators team is providing the packages also to extras. Nov 30 19:05:35 Just my guess. Nov 30 19:09:41 GAN800: wich is the best way to use msn with the bult in client in Diablo, rtcomm ? Nov 30 19:12:10 konttori_, I guess I've got to ask X-Fade if that email points anywhere, but Nokia shouldn't be using maemo.org addresses Nov 30 19:12:52 disco_stu, add the colabora repo and install the appropriate telepathy addons. Nov 30 19:13:31 ack Nov 30 19:14:06 drjnut: You are wasting words for political correctness sake. Not worth it. Nov 30 19:14:50 RST38h, you mean I could use the standard form (IYA)? Nov 30 19:14:54 ;-) Nov 30 19:14:58 GAN800: i think collabora has problems with pidgin Nov 30 19:15:07 drjnut: Obviously Nov 30 19:15:31 GAN: Collabora has its own untested version of Pidgin Nov 30 19:16:02 GAN: Once you let it install that stuff from Collabora repository, nobody knows what will happen to Pidgin - Collabora guys haven't checked Nov 30 19:16:04 RST38h, Pidgin sucks Nov 30 19:16:14 GAN: Maybe. But it is no reason to break it. Nov 30 19:16:25 GAN800: pidgin rulz Nov 30 19:17:00 If you're using rtcomm, pidgin functionality isn't important anyway Nov 30 19:17:17 GAN: Except that Collabora's rtcomm stuff relies on libpurple Nov 30 19:17:20 Other than that, there's the rtcomm beta. Nov 30 19:17:55 OK, whatever, figure it out amongst yourselves, I'm gonna watch the Princess Bride. Nov 30 19:18:00 * RST38h has got 20fps from that MIPS. Isn't it simply miraculous? Nov 30 19:18:05 Urgh Nov 30 19:18:07 RST38h, yeah, but sometimes the long form could hit harder than the typical form Nov 30 19:18:11 princess bride ? Nov 30 19:18:15 wtf Nov 30 19:18:26 Never seen it? Nov 30 19:18:30 drjnut: With the long form, you can get waaay more creative Nov 30 19:18:41 I recommend you go educate yourself on IMDb. Nov 30 19:18:50 lol Nov 30 19:18:55 * RST38h no longer watches new movies, just the old stuff Nov 30 19:18:55 right Nov 30 19:19:05 old stuff Nov 30 19:19:16 RST38h, new being 1987? :p Nov 30 19:19:21 nice girl Nov 30 19:19:26 I do "mplayer -fixed-vo -shuffle -loop 0 *.avi" Nov 30 19:19:28 * RST38h has tried The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen last time and it sucked. Nov 30 19:19:44 GAN: Nah, I am not THAT picky Nov 30 19:20:04 ... especially within my porn dir Nov 30 19:20:10 GAN: Last good American one was probably Mars Attacks Nov 30 19:20:17 Pfft Nov 30 19:20:23 And Wag The Dog, if you like documentaries =) Nov 30 19:20:25 The Dark Knight Nov 30 19:20:36 Pure SFX - nothing to watch Nov 30 19:20:57 There's very light cgi in that movie Nov 30 19:21:12 Basically the stupid batcycle is the only cgi Nov 30 19:21:15 Still, does not add it any storyline :( Nov 30 19:21:28 Everything else is either models or real Nov 30 19:21:33 Ok, wait, I enjoyed Firefly the series Nov 30 19:21:40 Did you see it? :rolleyes: Nov 30 19:22:04 Dark Knight? Downloaded it, watched for 15 minutes, fell asleep Nov 30 19:22:14 Pfft Nov 30 19:22:35 * GAN800 notes not to bother discussing movied with RST38h Nov 30 19:22:51 s/movied/movies/ Nov 30 19:24:41 * RST38h is a boring old fart, correct. Nov 30 19:25:18 hehe Nov 30 19:25:21 GAN800: "posisjon" Nov 30 19:25:26 I watching the transporter right now Nov 30 19:25:32 (reads books, ignores special effects) Nov 30 19:25:32 (position) Nov 30 19:26:27 * GAN800 logs into the wiki Nov 30 19:27:41 Ehehe http://wiki.maemo.org/Git_For_Garage Nov 30 19:28:13 gan800 hehe Nov 30 19:28:32 gan800 hm there is now git plugin for gforge right now Nov 30 19:28:36 no Nov 30 19:28:42 so no git for garage Nov 30 19:30:24 woglinde, read the page. Nov 30 19:30:29 yeah Nov 30 19:30:32 I saw the plan Nov 30 19:30:35 we will see Nov 30 19:32:10 when would skype support the built-in camera in n800? ;) Nov 30 19:32:23 oli lol Nov 30 19:32:26 ask skype Nov 30 19:32:37 oli, harass Skype about it. Nov 30 19:33:23 woglinde, what do you mean 'we will see'? it's ferenc working on it, not some random community spare-time deal. Nov 30 19:33:56 gan yeah Nov 30 19:34:10 but that can fail too Nov 30 19:34:26 none of my friends are using gizmo/msn ;( Nov 30 19:34:57 I wouldnt use it either Nov 30 19:35:11 Meh, he knows what he's doing. Nov 30 19:54:58 he qerty Nov 30 19:56:37 hi woglinde Nov 30 20:07:04 hi #maemo Nov 30 20:07:17 hi mousey Nov 30 20:07:19 anyone know where i can get a wallpaper rotater for my n810? Nov 30 20:09:58 cant you just grab your n8x0 and move it round? Nov 30 20:10:26 that's what I was thinking Nov 30 20:10:34 but then I realized it's rotate as in change Nov 30 20:10:36 Mousey, there's a bug about that on the bugzilla... Nov 30 20:11:00 hm, my n800 isn't flipping image when i turn camera, is it bad? Nov 30 20:11:04 which means, enable the camera and then move the device about :P Nov 30 20:11:41 ~ping Nov 30 20:11:42 ~pong Nov 30 20:11:42 hmm Nov 30 20:12:04 my camera doesn't popup video call dialog Nov 30 20:12:10 it did before Nov 30 20:12:27 * oli 's cam behaves the same Nov 30 20:12:58 hola Nov 30 20:13:23 in chinook it 100% did that. and annoyed me when i wanted just to record some video Nov 30 20:13:42 something broke? Nov 30 20:15:40 hello. it might be offtopic question... is there any option to expand RAM in nokia n800/n810 ? Nov 30 20:16:06 curious, i think no here too ;) Nov 30 20:16:30 lcuk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketchpad Nov 30 20:16:36 slonopotamus: strange thing with this cam ;) Nov 30 20:16:38 lcuk: fell over this in an article i was reading Nov 30 20:17:11 reminded me of liqbase :P Nov 30 20:17:18 oli, yep. don't know when this started (i use it very rarely) Nov 30 20:17:24 im grinnin from ear to ear Nov 30 20:17:55 curious, serious question? :P Nov 30 20:17:59 me too, I run diablo since I've bought n800 and I remember it worked : P Nov 30 20:19:05 i just meant a wallpaper changer, i guess rotater was a bad choice of words Nov 30 20:19:16 hehe Nov 30 20:19:16 ooooooooh If the user changed the master drawing, all the instances would change as well. Nov 30 20:19:27 curious, dd if=/media/mmc2/.swap of=/dev/zero bs=9999999999 ; mkswap /media/mmc2/.swap ; swapon /media/mmc2/.swap :P Nov 30 20:19:49 swapon Nov 30 20:19:56 hehe Nov 30 20:20:04 qwerty12_N800, those are kinda reversed Nov 30 20:20:08 kinda Nov 30 20:20:11 if and of Nov 30 20:20:25 ShadowJK, hehe, i don't use dd much :) Nov 30 20:20:26 funny thing for non-it people, i guess Nov 30 20:20:27 and maybe you don't want the entire media filled... Nov 30 20:20:39 holy fuck Nov 30 20:20:41 Mousey, http://interfacelift.com/ Nov 30 20:21:02 dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc2/.swap bs=1M count=256 ; mkswap /media/mmc2/.swap ; swapon /media/mmc2/.swap Nov 30 20:21:02 GAN800, they have a wallpaper changing program for n810? Nov 30 20:21:08 ShadowJK, oh, the bs argument was intentional Nov 30 20:21:41 not because i'm an evil bastard but because i was j/kin Nov 30 20:21:45 lol . . . Nov 30 20:21:59 can i borrow your swapon? :) hehe Nov 30 20:22:14 Stskeeps, did you watch the video? Nov 30 20:22:23 im in awe Nov 30 20:22:29 * qwerty12_N800 finally gets the swapon joke >.< Nov 30 20:22:40 hehe Nov 30 20:23:03 lcuk: nop Nov 30 20:23:29 he had to build the display himself :) Nov 30 20:23:33 anyway. curious wanted ram Nov 30 20:23:50 ive got a silly grin on my face Nov 30 20:23:59 so like Nov 30 20:24:07 could you solder more ram ontop of the cpu? Nov 30 20:24:27 solder - ? Nov 30 20:24:56 in-credible Nov 30 20:26:37 ShadowJK, it's not a PoP in the N8x0 Nov 30 20:26:39 Stskeeps, i have to write about that, its given me goosebumps Nov 30 20:26:47 GAN800, oh :( Nov 30 20:27:10 lcuk, what video are you talking about Nov 30 20:27:22 You might be able to source bigger chips to replace the ones on the board Nov 30 20:27:35 on the sketchpad page theres a picture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketchpad underneath the picture it says video Nov 30 20:27:46 But, the short answer is: no, you can't upgrade the RAM. Nov 30 20:27:59 the sketchpad video starts about 3 minutes in Nov 30 20:28:19 its some 80s college guy talking about it Nov 30 20:30:30 lcuk: well, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Sutherland Nov 30 20:30:31 :P Nov 30 20:31:47 hm, that audio is a bit odd Nov 30 20:31:53 * sp3000 wonders if a channel is inverted Nov 30 20:36:20 heh own handwriting fonts :D Nov 30 20:37:53 lcuk: hope it might serve as some inspiration Nov 30 20:38:16 heh, i tihnk im evolving at about 10 years a month Nov 30 20:38:31 by next year i should be in the 23rd century Nov 30 20:39:15 <^Tux^> if I keep eating these dominos oven baked sandwiches and drinking beer my butt's gonna be in the 23rd century in ~30m Nov 30 20:40:08 Scary Nov 30 20:40:18 <^Tux^> pj33r my gas, jk Nov 30 20:40:21 <^Tux^> ;( Nov 30 20:40:30 <^Tux^> you're just everywhere, aren't you? Nov 30 20:40:50 ^Tux^: get a tablet will you, as well as me and JK :P Nov 30 20:41:09 <^Tux^> too lazy Nov 30 20:41:12 hehe Nov 30 20:41:15 <^Tux^> I have enough projects that arent complete Nov 30 20:41:18 <^Tux^> I cant be assed with another Nov 30 20:41:42 Sun sent you any fun gear lately? Nov 30 20:41:54 <^Tux^> no, havent asked for any more Nov 30 20:42:11 <^Tux^> I figured they'd get pissed.. "this asshole keeps trying shit and doesnt buy" Nov 30 20:42:12 <^Tux^> haha Nov 30 20:45:04 i can has time machine? Nov 30 20:45:36 <^Tux^> no.. you were pushing your luck with the cheeseburger. Nov 30 20:45:59 damn Nov 30 20:46:08 (cheese and bacon) Nov 30 20:46:50 im gonna stop and just port this stuff ;) Nov 30 20:47:46 the first one (sketchpad) needed a machine so large it had its own building! Nov 30 20:47:52 hehe, sketchpad from a 30-40 year old piece of software? ;) Nov 30 20:48:23 its a shame, the guy said its not been seen since - it wasnt programmed so much as built Nov 30 20:48:40 the last machine in the US which needed its own roof! Nov 30 20:48:52 not exactly pocketable Nov 30 20:49:00 So like, does the camera actually work for anyone? I get scary looking page allocation failures from kernel in dmesg :) Nov 30 20:49:12 <^Tux^> operator error ;( Nov 30 20:49:18 As if the driver was attempting to allocate a huge contigous area of physical ram Nov 30 20:49:26 ShadowJK, liqbase uses the camera extensively Nov 30 20:50:11 grrrr Stskeeps you have put me off now lol Nov 30 20:50:21 lcuk: apologies, inspiration is a nasty thing :P Nov 30 20:50:23 ok, let's try. With swap and all, there's >300M ram free Nov 30 20:51:02 [245177.835937] mplayer: page allocation failure. order:7, mode:0xd1 Nov 30 20:51:12 its not so much inspiration but its extremely interesting - especially how much hasnt been carried through which should work intuitively Nov 30 20:51:19 (I tested mplayer because I can limit it to one frame so that it doesn't bring down the system) Nov 30 20:51:25 order 7 is.... huge? Nov 30 20:53:08 http://pastebin.com/m2b502a6a Nov 30 20:59:56 moo, lcuk Nov 30 21:02:26 ello rstr Nov 30 21:10:11 hm, camera works right after fresh reboot Nov 30 21:10:17 thanx Nov 30 21:10:38 no, swap is not enough. i am considering getting n800, but amount of ram is quite scary Nov 30 21:11:03 curious, it's a mobile device, not a laptop. Nov 30 21:11:31 well, yes, but 128M ? come on Nov 30 21:11:50 i expected 810 having bit more, but seems nope Nov 30 21:12:00 :/ Nov 30 21:12:09 never had any problem with only 128m ram and I run multiple things at one time Nov 30 21:12:23 Name me some mobile devices from 2007 that have more. . . . Nov 30 21:12:40 I'll answer that one for you: there really aren't any. Nov 30 21:12:54 curious: when i use my tablet, even for hardcore stuff, i usually have memory free Nov 30 21:13:09 It's top-of-the-line for its day Nov 30 21:13:24 i mean, 256m would be nice, but not a requirement. Nov 30 21:13:35 yes, i understand, especially ram is quite expensive thing, altrough sometimes there is just free place on board so user can expand Nov 30 21:13:37 curious: try out a n800 somewhere first Nov 30 21:13:46 or look at demos of it Nov 30 21:13:57 i mean, an ipaq had 16mb back in its day.. Nov 30 21:14:04 <^Tux^> ipaq ;( Nov 30 21:14:08 ye, generally it is very cool device, one of first serious things Nov 30 21:14:19 * ShadowJK constantly runs out of ram Nov 30 21:14:23 and this thing is so bloody small, i wouldn't know where to put a insertable ram bloc Nov 30 21:14:26 k Nov 30 21:14:32 <^Tux^> JK: you've bastardized shit? Nov 30 21:14:32 <^Tux^> :P Nov 30 21:14:37 (except for mmcs) Nov 30 21:14:38 ^Tux^, not at all Nov 30 21:14:47 andrewfblack, in the $380 range Nov 30 21:15:09 <^Tux^> ShadowJK: I blame Sts Nov 30 21:15:09 well, i would not expect insertable ram expansion, more like just 256M versions or ablity to re-solder chips Nov 30 21:15:09 <^Tux^> :P Nov 30 21:15:17 indeed size of n800 is impressive Nov 30 21:15:34 one of reasons i consider getting one :) Nov 30 21:15:38 GAN800 What? Nov 30 21:15:49 Pandora Nov 30 21:15:57 ohh thanks Nov 30 21:15:58 ok, thanx for help Nov 30 21:16:17 GAN800: saw a (obviously shit) shop sell n810 for 1300 usd today. heh Nov 30 21:16:32 I figured it would be going up and up in price since they cna't seem to release it not that I'm buying on anyways Nov 30 21:16:33 lol Nov 30 21:17:04 i find it nice getting advertisements with nokia tablets in them, though Nov 30 21:17:06 in my mailbox Nov 30 21:17:26 <^Tux^> 1300? wtf Nov 30 21:17:30 yeah Nov 30 21:17:43 i manage to run low on ram while browsing some very big news webbapges Nov 30 21:17:45 <^Tux^> that sucker better whipe my ass for 1300 Nov 30 21:17:52 i browsed the local price comparison and i found it for 390$ Nov 30 21:18:04 <^Tux^> they're all over ebay here for like Nov 30 21:18:04 <^Tux^> 200 Nov 30 21:18:06 so it was a ripoff shop by some loner guy :P Nov 30 21:18:10 yeah Nov 30 21:18:14 i choked a bit when i saw the price Nov 30 21:18:21 <^Tux^> NO LUBE. Nov 30 21:18:45 there is always time for lube! Nov 30 21:19:18 <^Tux^> not when you buy a tablet for 1300 Nov 30 21:21:04 ^Tux^: what that whip or wipe? ;) Nov 30 21:21:19 s/what/was Nov 30 21:21:37 <^Tux^> whipe ;P Nov 30 21:22:00 simultaneous I guess :) Nov 30 21:22:01 * qwerty12_N800 has big wheels on his whip Nov 30 22:08:36 * GAN800 chuckles at the Thanks. http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=245711&postcount=90 Nov 30 22:09:34 * qwerty12_N800 hits the thanks button :p Nov 30 22:09:59 * GAN800 generates a hit list. ;) Nov 30 22:23:04 * ^Tux^ yawns Nov 30 22:24:26 * bef0rd pwns Nov 30 22:28:36 lcuk, it doesn't have anything to do with sources. Nov 30 22:28:43 of course it does Nov 30 22:28:51 if its open we can fix things ourselves Nov 30 22:29:16 there is a good chance that the bugs noticed are gonna be in incompatible packages Nov 30 22:29:16 They don't care whether the fix is available for them to use or not, only whether Nokia ships an official Fremantle image for OMAP2 Nov 30 22:29:36 No, really, that discussion isn't related to sources. Nov 30 22:29:51 if they want to be opensource they will not juist kill an actively used code branch without doing something about it Nov 30 22:29:53 Most of these bugs have been resolved on open source stuff Nov 30 22:30:02 then whats the problem? Nov 30 22:30:06 its available Nov 30 22:30:14 isnt it? Nov 30 22:30:30 While source may be relevant to the larger picture, it isn't to that discussion. Nov 30 22:30:39 It's that people are stupid Nov 30 22:31:22 They don't seem to realize that Fremantle's openness really enables a community backport Nov 30 22:31:37 They only seem to be concerned with FUD Nov 30 22:32:22 which os have you got in your 770 Nov 30 22:32:51 lcuk, the main issue is the need for community editions which actually remix the newer packages into the mix Nov 30 22:33:01 yes sts Nov 30 22:33:24 and one of those ingredients is simple fixes to the existing software Nov 30 22:33:34 not waiting for a whole os to be backported Nov 30 22:34:03 lots of people are happy with their current system Nov 30 22:34:07 most bugs can be fixed by simply compiling the new packages Nov 30 22:34:32 hopefully Nov 30 22:34:36 OS2008HE Nov 30 22:34:49 and the mechanism for delivering those sanely doesn't exist yet Nov 30 22:35:05 GAN800, i hear lots of folks in here who try it as primary and have dropped back Nov 30 22:35:29 Stskeeps, technically svn would work Nov 30 22:35:33 (should community take over SSU maintaince? Nov 30 22:36:00 shouldnt owner simply be able to choose ssu server? Nov 30 22:36:07 nokia|maemo Nov 30 22:36:41 Stskeeps, i really dont see why not, its not much different to extras Nov 30 22:36:45 infact itsthe same isnt it Nov 30 22:36:51 i get update reports from extras Nov 30 22:37:01 or atleast ability to push updates to be included in ssus Nov 30 22:37:08 lcuk, ssu servers are just plain repo with h-a-m having instructions to treat it as an software update repo Nov 30 22:37:44 yeah qwerty Nov 30 22:38:11 actually, people even apt-get upgrade instead of using h-a-m to upgrade to an new ssu Nov 30 22:38:40 GAN800: worth considering, - maemo community can contribute updated packages for ssu? Nov 30 22:38:59 mechanism for this Nov 30 22:39:27 Stskeeps, osv-c Nov 30 22:39:40 We should just roll our own if we're going thaat route. Nov 30 22:40:03 its not unreasonable - ive heard about oss keeping old versions alive in all the camps over the years, why we dont consider it here is strange. at least iin the short term it would relieve anxiety from people Nov 30 22:41:01 lcuk, to each his own Nov 30 22:41:09 I like OS2008HE Nov 30 22:41:13 GAN800: well also a way for nokia to gain from community Nov 30 22:41:28 gan, people buy a tool, they invest time in making sure it works for them and sometimes simply dont want to change Nov 30 22:41:41 and keeping older devices going Nov 30 22:41:45 lcuk, that's fine. Nov 30 22:42:08 if fremantle on device is stable in 12 months they might change Nov 30 22:42:08 k, sleep time Nov 30 22:42:15 Stskeeps, there's no need to involve Nokia beyond perhaps enlisting them for additional support Nov 30 22:42:21 k Nov 30 22:42:35 But if we're pushing a community edition, best to go all the way. Nov 30 22:42:46 GAN800, im simply thinking it would ease tension :) Nov 30 22:42:49 No need to piggyback on Nokia's setup. Nov 30 22:43:16 lcuk, you're tossing irrelevant things into the mix. :P Nov 30 22:43:45 yeah, but theres middle ground in all camps - im really looking forward to playing with the new devices Nov 30 23:26:43 hi! Nov 30 23:26:50 how do i control the volume from console? Nov 30 23:31:33 or how do i scan bluetooth devicves from console?... Nov 30 23:31:51 hcitool doesnt exist.. :S Nov 30 23:36:32 killfill: sdptool browse or inquire Nov 30 23:36:55 sdptool search Nov 30 23:37:57 BabelO, all i have is dp-query Nov 30 23:38:03 sdp-query Nov 30 23:38:46 killfill: so you miss package Nov 30 23:39:11 did you try hcitool inq Nov 30 23:39:30 you need the bluez backage Nov 30 23:39:34 or blueztools Nov 30 23:39:35 hcitool doesnt exist either.. :S Nov 30 23:39:57 apt-cache search blueztools Nov 30 23:40:02 doesnt give output.. :S Nov 30 23:40:10 bluze-utils Nov 30 23:40:11 oh.. just fond this: http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#kbdd Nov 30 23:40:53 it doesnt contain any binary.. :S Nov 30 23:47:04 guys.. and how do i set the volume? Nov 30 23:47:21 i wish to i.e. mute it.. or set it to 90% etc. Nov 30 23:47:23 from console Nov 30 23:50:08 hrm, i wish i knew Nov 30 23:50:24 maybe you can edit something /proc Nov 30 23:50:25 aumix? alsamixer? Nov 30 23:50:32 but don't take my word for it Nov 30 23:52:16 hey, when debian lenny comes out. would mamo move the lenny codebase? Nov 30 23:52:41 GuySoft, Fremantle is upgrading many libraries Nov 30 23:53:02 It's not dependent on Debian cycles, though. Nov 30 23:53:21 Fremantle? Nov 30 23:53:56 huh? Nov 30 23:53:57 GAN800, it just seemed logical to me since now its part etch part lenny.. and when lenny comes out they will support the armel architecture.. Nov 30 23:54:07 GuySoft, check the wikipedia article on Maemo, but it's the next release. Nov 30 23:54:13 why aren't you running stable and testing and unstable already tho? Nov 30 23:54:15 ~maemo Nov 30 23:54:16 somebody said maemo was a development platform to create applications for Nokia 770 Internet Tablet and other maemo compliant handheld devices in the future. http://www.maemo.org/ Nov 30 23:54:31 why wait for releases, i didn't think that's how debian worked, and it certainly seems that way since they NEVER release Nov 30 23:55:48 i am just annoyed i carn't cross-compile anything because the packages carnt be moved from debian to maemo.. and it seems logical since its really simular Dec 01 00:18:25 Mousey, alsamixer doesnt seem to exist.. :S Dec 01 00:18:29 do you have it?.. Dec 01 00:19:55 rats Dec 01 00:19:58 no, i haven't checked Dec 01 00:20:11 those are just some cli mixers in debian/ubuntu i've seen.. Dec 01 00:20:19 maybe they can be built for/under maemo? Dec 01 00:20:25 apt-get source -b style Dec 01 00:20:30 shrug Dec 01 00:25:14 hm.. :S Dec 01 00:28:48 damn volume. S Dec 01 00:55:04 http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081128-intels-linux-based-moblin-platform-arrives-on-devices.html Dec 01 00:55:58 hey l7 Dec 01 00:56:28 heya zakkm Dec 01 00:56:37 never heared of moblin... but those specs aren't shabby Dec 01 00:56:47 The platform leverages the GNOME Mobile and Embedded stack and uses Hildon, a derivative of the GTK+ toolkit that was originally designed by Nokia for Internet tablet devices. It also includes a modified version of the Firefox 3 web browser. Developers who want to get a head start hacking on the platform can download the source code from Intel's Git repository. Dec 01 00:57:01 has a modified version of firefox 3.. and uses hildon? Dec 01 00:57:10 yeah, hildon Dec 01 00:57:10 why doesnt maemo have that then? :P Dec 01 00:57:23 maybe it's fennec? Dec 01 00:57:41 ah maybe Dec 01 00:57:45 just curious ;p Dec 01 00:57:46 isn't the problem the maemo's processor? Dec 01 00:58:03 or firefox mobile or whatever they call it now... but fennec wasn't fun on the n810... way too slow Dec 01 00:58:17 it was slow on my pc too ;p Dec 01 00:58:21 lol .9 Dec 01 00:58:23 :) Dec 01 00:58:35 Pentinum E2180 dual;p Dec 01 00:58:57 i wonder if nokia would considering using atom on it's n900 Dec 01 00:58:57 o_O how did they achieve such bad performance?! Dec 01 00:59:16 ubuntu is offically supporting atom on it's mobile remix as well Dec 01 00:59:45 zakkm, we have exactly that. . . Dec 01 00:59:53 ubuntu supports my atom cpu :) Dec 01 00:59:57 x86 version though of course Dec 01 01:00:15 The next release of Fennec should address a lot of the performance issues. Dec 01 01:00:28 the street price of 368 USD makes it rather competitive with the n810 Dec 01 01:00:34 l7, I hope the hell not Dec 01 01:00:47 why not? Dec 01 01:00:56 Unless you WANT an hour and a half of battery and 6 hours idle. :roll: Dec 01 01:01:04 heh Dec 01 01:01:14 Because the Atom is still shit as far as mobile CPUs go Dec 01 01:01:23 It's not even an SoC yet Dec 01 01:01:40 The OMAP3 is so much more badass Dec 01 01:01:56 The Atom will MAYBE be competative in 2 years Dec 01 01:02:10 But it's not even in the same league right now. Dec 01 01:02:10 the article doesn't mention battery life Dec 01 01:02:13 SoC? Dec 01 01:02:19 system on chip Dec 01 01:02:23 System on a Chip Dec 01 01:02:32 Atom is just a CPU Dec 01 01:03:07 OMAP3 is CPU, GPU, DSP, memory controller, and bus controllers on one die. Dec 01 01:03:25 Which gives you rather significant cost and power savings. Dec 01 01:03:41 then it'll need a bigger heavier battery to compensate i suppose Dec 01 01:03:42 what is the DSP exactly? Dec 01 01:03:45 whats its job? Dec 01 01:04:15 i wonder what the real world battery life figures will work out to Dec 01 01:04:25 Anyway, there's really no advantage--and several extreme disadvabtages--in using an x86 CPU when Windows compatability isn't in the equation. Dec 01 01:04:26 the kind of math associated with multimedia. Dec 01 01:04:47 zakkm, Digital Signal Processor Dec 01 01:04:51 when is fennec's next release coming out by the way? Dec 01 01:04:54 i know what it stands for Dec 01 01:04:56 but what does it do Dec 01 01:05:08 l7, 1-4 hours active, maybe 8 idle Dec 01 01:05:32 Compared to 4-8 hours active and 14-30 days idle. Dec 01 01:05:46 zakkm, processes digital signals. ;) Dec 01 01:05:47 dsps are strong in floating ops and are strong on MAC units and provide very lowlevel control Dec 01 01:05:57 Audio and video decoding Dec 01 01:06:17 l7, shouldn't be too far off Dec 01 01:06:41 GAN800: you're involved in fennec development? Dec 01 01:06:50 won't the intel architecture make it easier to port linux apps though? Dec 01 01:07:51 compared to? other architectures? well gcc supports lots of architectures, so not really Dec 01 01:08:09 EgS, no, I just like to stay informed and have talked to the devs a bit. :) Dec 01 01:08:16 l7, no Dec 01 01:08:29 GAN800: aah ok, but good to know. I really liked the concept of the interface Dec 01 01:08:43 l7, barely anything is really architecture dependent these days Dec 01 01:09:13 and the massive disadvantages of x86 far outweigh anyway. Dec 01 01:09:36 okay, i was just curious why there aren't that many standard linux apps in the extras repo Dec 01 01:09:40 many of those disadvantages can be coped with by the microarchitecture though Dec 01 01:09:54 l7, that's a library/platform issue Dec 01 01:10:02 maemo-gtk is a bit funkt Dec 01 01:10:07 s/kt/ky/ Dec 01 01:10:07 GAN800 meant: maemo-gtk is a bit funky Dec 01 01:10:16 * zakkm is installing easy debian :P Dec 01 01:10:37 EgS, massively higher power consumption compared to ARM being first and foremost. Dec 01 01:10:53 GAN800: power consumption is not part of the architecture... Dec 01 01:11:19 zakkm: where's the easy debian download? Dec 01 01:11:28 an x86 CPU aint gonna be comparable to an ARM CPU anytime soon Dec 01 01:11:39 got it off forum Dec 01 01:11:41 particularly when you factor in the chipsets. Dec 01 01:11:45 it was a "one-click" thingy Dec 01 01:11:58 heh, i have to admit one-click has it's appeals Dec 01 01:12:06 ANNOUNCE: Easy Debian Turbo-Charged Edition! Dec 01 01:12:11 GAN800: that is true though :) but as the architecture just defines the assembly commands it doesn't say anything about the power consumption Dec 01 01:12:47 GAN800: but yes ARM is a very cool architecture Dec 01 01:12:50 EgS, the reality is that you can't consider the architecture independly of other factors. :p Dec 01 01:13:10 GAN800: due to the market requirements... yes :) Dec 01 01:13:28 GAN800: theoretically you could... but then you would end up with a product no one would buy :) Dec 01 01:13:47 Thus, moot discussion. ;) Dec 01 01:13:51 :) Dec 01 01:14:56 I want that ARM GPU Dec 01 01:15:13 Ditching Imagination Tech would be great Dec 01 01:15:19 so when is the n900 coming out? Dec 01 01:15:49 It's not been announced, but Summer 2009 is a safe bet. Dec 01 01:15:55 i'm guess it will have the n810's form factor more or less Dec 01 01:16:02 s/guess/guessing/ Dec 01 01:16:03 l7 meant: i'm guessing it will have the n810's form factor more or less Dec 01 01:16:28 hehe cool feature of the bot :) Dec 01 01:16:36 it is an exciting time to be a linux user these days Dec 01 01:16:45 yeah, i love that feature Dec 01 01:17:07 the wiki feature is cool too though i wish i knew what the index of possible commands are Dec 01 01:17:28 anyone think fremantle will be alot quicker than diablo? Dec 01 01:17:38 l7, you just define them as you go along Dec 01 01:17:56 ~l7 is a letter and a number. :p Dec 01 01:17:57 GAN800: okay Dec 01 01:18:11 lol Dec 01 01:18:13 l7 is a lucky number 7 :P Dec 01 01:18:24 zakkm, on the same hardware? No. Dec 01 01:18:32 yeah same hardware Dec 01 01:18:44 But more optimized? Significantly. Dec 01 01:18:49 ~GAN800 is three letters and three numbers :) Dec 01 01:18:51 okay, l7 Dec 01 01:18:54 on faster hardware it'll scream. Dec 01 01:18:55 lol wouldnt that mean quicker? Dec 01 01:18:56 in a sense? Dec 01 01:19:06 depending optimization Dec 01 01:19:10 zakkm, it's also heavier Dec 01 01:19:21 Clutter and such Dec 01 01:19:54 Diablo MicroB to Fremantle MicroB, Fremantle will be faster by a large margin. Dec 01 01:20:11 should leave microb :P Dec 01 01:20:23 google chrome! :P Dec 01 01:20:28 google chrome goes ARM! :P Dec 01 01:20:29 Bleh Dec 01 01:20:43 Chrome isn't designed for mobile platforms. Dec 01 01:20:55 has a sick tab feature ;p Dec 01 01:20:56 neither is android Dec 01 01:21:11 It's designed to eat up big desktop machine resources to go faster. Dec 01 01:21:17 Mousey: neither is android? Dec 01 01:21:26 i'm being silly, ignore me Dec 01 01:21:30 heh Dec 01 01:21:55 the fact that you need to jailbreak android devices bugs me Dec 01 01:22:36 but it's not surprising Dec 01 01:23:44 maybe it's the prevent people from unlocking their phones Dec 01 01:24:03 what do you guys think of the neo freerunner by the way? Dec 01 01:26:58 * zakkm favourite phone is the tmobile sidekicks Dec 01 01:27:19 l7, hardware sucks, software aint great. Dec 01 01:27:41 hardware is understandable, but the software is just a mess. Dec 01 01:27:56 yeah, that is my impression too Dec 01 01:28:15 android will be available for it soon though Dec 01 01:28:20 Koolu Beta port of Android will be available to download for existing Freerunner owners and installed on phones for sale in December 2008. Dec 01 01:28:38 http://www.koolu.com/ Dec 01 01:28:58 dunno if it's worth $400 USD though Dec 01 01:29:28 zakkm: what do you like about the sidekicks? Dec 01 01:30:16 the design Dec 01 01:30:30 can you get a decent terminal session with a few apps like ssh, wget and mplayer on it? Dec 01 01:30:33 i loved them way before the whole iphone, ipod touch, touchscreen stuff Dec 01 01:31:15 i also live in toronto, Canada so the only way to get one is like ebay ;p Dec 01 01:31:29 the iphone or the sidekick? Dec 01 01:31:42 sidekick Dec 01 01:32:30 weird, there's no tmobile in Canada? Dec 01 01:33:22 nope Dec 01 01:33:58 i have to say the keyboard on the sidekick does look nice Dec 01 01:34:45 would like nokia + sidekick for actual calls Dec 01 01:35:11 there's so many interesting devices in the pocket sized form factor Dec 01 01:35:28 its a cellphone though Dec 01 01:35:32 which i need for work Dec 01 01:35:41 and im 17 in a city... so teenage use too Dec 01 01:35:47 heh Dec 01 01:35:59 it looks like a nice texting platform Dec 01 01:36:16 really, i just want to carry one device around anyway, so it has to be a phone Dec 01 01:36:44 though i would probably get a n900 too if i found the extra cash at some point Dec 01 01:37:00 and if it was truely The Awesome that it seems it will be Dec 01 01:37:11 s/was/will be/ Dec 01 01:37:11 l7 meant: and if it will be truely The Awesome that it seems it will be Dec 01 01:37:19 how do i type in easy deebian? Dec 01 01:37:43 no bluetooth support? Dec 01 01:38:15 i think you have to find the virtual keyboard app Dec 01 01:38:47 there's a youtube video walkthrough of sorts if you look for deblet Dec 01 01:38:56 thats deblet though Dec 01 01:39:18 deblet kills battery alot i heard, so i figured i shouldnt use that Dec 01 01:39:24 thought easy debian might be better Dec 01 01:39:30 hrm Dec 01 01:39:50 isn't easy debian in the extras repo? Dec 01 01:40:07 yeah Dec 01 01:40:09 thats why i got it Dec 01 01:40:54 haha this so cool Dec 01 01:41:00 lxde on nokia Dec 01 01:41:21 did you install easy-deb-chroot? Dec 01 01:41:25 yes Dec 01 01:41:27 ah Dec 01 01:41:35 no need to look in the forums for that Dec 01 01:41:56 i got it from forums though Dec 01 01:42:02 cause i wanted to read the installing notes Dec 01 01:42:28 is it the same version? Dec 01 01:43:13 yes Dec 01 01:43:19 so slow Dec 01 01:43:29 maemo is soo much quicker Dec 01 01:44:07 heard it was slower, realized it must be.. but didnt realize this significantly Dec 01 01:45:50 oh well Dec 01 01:45:59 is deblet faster? Dec 01 01:46:06 never tried Dec 01 01:46:10 but i heard battery life sucks alot Dec 01 01:46:45 i wouldn't mind trading a bit of battery just to play around with a faster system for a bit Dec 01 01:47:23 true but that would require a new partition and dualbooting and all Dec 01 01:50:23 i would just put it on a spare SD care and wipe it after i'm done messing around Dec 01 01:50:31 s/care/card/ Dec 01 01:50:33 l7 meant: i would just put it on a spare SD card and wipe it after i'm done messing around Dec 01 01:51:06 dont have a spare ;p Dec 01 01:51:18 oh well Dec 01 01:52:16 they're about $2-3 per gig these days including shipping Dec 01 01:52:34 in the US anyway, dunno how much prices are like in CA Dec 01 01:53:13 i was hoping my shiny new kingston card would be able to write at greater than 2MB/s though Dec 01 01:53:29 anyone know how to get the clear function for the nxxo shell? Dec 01 01:53:32 maybe it's just an internal IO limitation Dec 01 01:53:45 it's kind of important :D Dec 01 01:53:53 z4chh: there's ctrl-l Dec 01 01:54:05 aww i like clear though xD Dec 01 01:54:09 i wish there was a proper clear command Dec 01 01:54:10 me too Dec 01 01:54:17 i'm a clear guy >.> Dec 01 01:54:19 im in a city Dec 01 01:54:23 i dont buy anything shipped Dec 01 01:54:23 lol Dec 01 01:54:25 same here Dec 01 01:54:34 z4chh: try ROXterm Dec 01 01:54:43 i have 2, 4gb SD's Dec 01 01:54:47 which are in my nokia n800's Dec 01 01:54:49 but they're full Dec 01 01:54:52 and i boot off one of them Dec 01 01:54:59 it comes naturally to me...i see a screen full of information..my instict is to type clear as fast i can and snap that enter button :D Dec 01 01:55:12 you can do reset and clear on ROXterm Dec 01 01:55:16 as in...get out of my sight! Dec 01 01:55:22 yeah me too Dec 01 01:55:33 yay l7 clear buddies! Dec 01 01:55:39 heh Dec 01 01:55:50 it's just about minimizing the amound of clutter Dec 01 01:56:17 totally, you got to keep that terminal organized Dec 01 01:57:33 i finally added colors to my prompt on my n800..can't see how i lived without them o_o Dec 01 01:57:44 oh yeah, there's a particular 32GB adata class 6 card out there that is really bad and can only write at 2MB/s even from a PC Dec 01 01:58:01 but i also have a different adata card that is nice and fast Dec 01 01:58:14 you have a 32gb sdhc? Dec 01 01:58:14 z4chh: how did you add color? Dec 01 01:58:20 .bashrc Dec 01 01:58:21 no, i returned it Dec 01 01:58:36 it was total crap in terms of speed Dec 01 01:58:39 32gb is too much Dec 01 01:58:47 not really Dec 01 01:58:55 id kill to have 64gb on my n800 ;p Dec 01 01:59:04 i would to, but price wise Dec 01 01:59:04 it's great for media since i use mytube a lot Dec 01 01:59:06 not worth it to me Dec 01 01:59:18 canola caan download off youtube cant it? Dec 01 01:59:19 hrm yeah, the price per gig is little more Dec 01 01:59:20 zakkm, yep not right now Dec 01 01:59:27 zakkm, with a plugin Dec 01 01:59:27 hmm Dec 01 01:59:40 oh wait, that was a 16 gb i got Dec 01 01:59:57 it was all around $2 USD per gig actually Dec 01 02:00:08 as long as your card doesn't crap out Dec 01 02:00:08 how much memory does the 16gb really give? Dec 01 02:00:33 uhm 16gb, minus whatever formatting overhead you have Dec 01 02:00:39 z4chh: its a %.. Dec 01 02:00:57 maybe ext has a lower % of overhead, not sure Dec 01 02:01:59 i'd probably format mine fat32..dos fs Dec 01 02:02:08 why? Dec 01 02:02:18 why not? Dec 01 02:02:22 >.< Dec 01 02:02:23 fat32's data integrity worries me a bit Dec 01 02:02:26 formatting doesnt actually do much Dec 01 02:02:33 could be superstition though Dec 01 02:02:36 its cause they market 16gb as 16 billion bytes... Dec 01 02:02:43 but 16gb isnt 16 billion bytes Dec 01 02:02:48 16 billion bytes is like 14 gb Dec 01 02:03:12 fat32, ext, ntfs.. doesnt change much Dec 01 02:03:30 same level of data integrity? Dec 01 02:03:32 cluster size maybe, but yeah Dec 01 02:03:39 no like Dec 01 02:03:46 if you look at a box that says 120gb harddrive Dec 01 02:03:54 somewhere on it it says 120GB = 120 000 000 bytes Dec 01 02:04:04 but its 1024 kb to a mb ... not 1000 Dec 01 02:04:12 therefore its like 110gb... not 120gb Dec 01 02:04:43 ext3 has journalling which protects you a bit in event of a crash Dec 01 02:04:53 its a marketing gimmick.. the advertised GB Dec 01 02:04:58 mostly i don't want my huge cache of mytube videos to get corrupted Dec 01 02:05:11 event of a power crash ;p Dec 01 02:05:16 when would that happen Dec 01 02:05:22 FAT isn't worth using unless you have to deal with non-Linuc machines, then it's required. Dec 01 02:05:29 needs to read GiB Dec 01 02:06:17 zakkm: well applications do crash Dec 01 02:06:18 GAN800, true..that was probably my reason for using fat32..if i had to use a windows machine Dec 01 02:06:29 applications do Dec 01 02:06:32 and there's random spontaneous reboots sometimes Dec 01 02:06:36 but journaling is for if its unmounted unsafely Dec 01 02:06:43 which would only happen if its a power cut Dec 01 02:06:53 well not random, it's usually when i tax the system by opening a bunch of crap Dec 01 02:07:12 system being nokia or desktop? Dec 01 02:07:16 anyone know if osso_xterm can have the scrollbar taken off? Dec 01 02:07:22 z4chh: it can Dec 01 02:07:23 zakkm: on maemo Dec 01 02:07:27 some gconf line Dec 01 02:07:43 i don't think ubuntu has ever spontaenously rebooted on me Dec 01 02:07:54 how can a class 6 card only write 2 MB/s? That would be a class 2 card. Dec 01 02:08:10 zakkm, how so? i don't see a gui way to do it Dec 01 02:08:22 gconf line = command... Dec 01 02:08:33 or if gconf-editor .. is on the nokia, but i dont think it is Dec 01 02:09:02 z4chh: try "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" Dec 01 02:09:34 who was it that originally mentioned that? Dec 01 02:10:09 ~remove-osso-scrollbar is "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" Dec 01 02:10:10 l7: okay Dec 01 02:10:20 ~remove-osso-scrollbar Dec 01 02:10:21 hmm... remove-osso-scrollbar is "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" Dec 01 02:10:34 hrm maybe that should be Dec 01 02:10:48 ~remove-scrollbar Dec 01 02:10:55 it works Dec 01 02:10:56 :) Dec 01 02:10:58 heh Dec 01 02:11:22 now my xterm is without any gui filth >:) muwhahahahahhahah Dec 01 02:11:28 ~remove-xterm-scrollbar is "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" Dec 01 02:11:29 okay, l7 Dec 01 02:11:53 infobot, forget ~remove-osso-scrollbar Dec 01 02:11:53 l7: i didn't have anything called '~remove-osso-scrollbar' to forget Dec 01 02:12:02 doh Dec 01 02:12:33 z4chh: you can still scroll by dragging and selecting text with the stylus Dec 01 02:12:45 only works in windowed mode Dec 01 02:13:37 yep Dec 01 02:13:55 works great Dec 01 02:14:28 soap: yeah that would make it a crappy class 6 card Dec 01 02:14:34 could be counterfeited Dec 01 02:14:59 or a class 6 card used in some machine not capable of utilizing its speed Dec 01 02:15:00 or maybe they just hope nobody notices Dec 01 02:15:33 well i did testing on a machine that could get decent speeds out of other cards Dec 01 02:15:38 or in some situation that prevents that maximum speed from being reached Dec 01 02:15:50 on two different card readers, no fragmentation Dec 01 02:16:10 well, then it sounds like a class 2 sold as a class 6 Dec 01 02:16:14 it still could be a card reader incompatibility that worked with all my other cards though, in theory Dec 01 02:16:56 the n800's internal IO seems a bit slow anyway Dec 01 02:17:17 but i want a decent card if i decent to put it to other uses later Dec 01 02:17:27 it's quite fast compared to other ARM based linux machines I've used Dec 01 02:18:05 scp seems to max out at around 700-800 KB/s anyway and sftp is even slower Dec 01 02:18:09 johnx: is deblet significantly faster than easy debian Dec 01 02:18:22 i never used easy debian Dec 01 02:18:26 what other ARM devices have you used? Dec 01 02:18:34 this is really slow Dec 01 02:18:35 but if you're doing something that wants a lot of RAM, than probably yes Dec 01 02:18:35 lxde on it Dec 01 02:19:02 in school tomorrow i just want to be like Dec 01 02:19:04 actually i mentioned write speeds, haven't measured read speed yet Dec 01 02:19:06 look, i got a laptop :) Dec 01 02:19:14 cause it will have a taskbar and all Dec 01 02:19:21 l7, zaurus 5500, zaurus c1000 Dec 01 02:19:36 so a strongARM and a PXA270 vs OMAP2420 Dec 01 02:20:21 i can't seem to find the man pages Dec 01 02:20:32 I _think_ the class ratings are on worst case / random writes at that. Dec 01 02:20:39 they're not included. try man foo in google Dec 01 02:20:56 no man included? o_O Dec 01 02:21:09 what kind of linux is this >.< Dec 01 02:21:30 the kind that fits in 128MB of flash Dec 01 02:21:50 welcome to the realities of embedded software Dec 01 02:21:58 true ;p Dec 01 02:22:29 does the N810 have a fullsize SD slot, or minisd? Dec 01 02:22:43 mini Dec 01 02:22:46 dmsuperman, 1 mini sd Dec 01 02:22:55 n800 has two full size sd Dec 01 02:23:11 I know the N800 does Dec 01 02:23:26 I have an N800, my friend is debating an Archos, or an N800 or an N810 Dec 01 02:23:27 I should say "non sequential" not "random", or is SD just THAT much slower than CF? Dec 01 02:23:30 soap: wikipedia says that class ratings are based on the best fragmented state Dec 01 02:23:37 ie an empty card Dec 01 02:23:40 Any ideas when the next of the NXXX line is coming out? Dec 01 02:23:50 because 6MB/s is only 40x Dec 01 02:23:56 summer 09 Dec 01 02:23:57 dmsuperman, no official word yet Dec 01 02:24:04 very slow by CF standards. Dec 01 02:24:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#SD_Speed_Class_Rating Dec 01 02:24:51 which says speed class is minimum Dec 01 02:24:58 :( Dec 01 02:25:02 johnx, is that official? o_O Dec 01 02:25:09 no, of course not Dec 01 02:25:22 then why say summer 09? Dec 01 02:25:39 because that's when Nokia has roadmapped maemo 5 final for Dec 01 02:26:06 soap: my point is that it's based on the best case scenario Dec 01 02:26:10 I guess "not before summer '09" is better Dec 01 02:26:15 if you trust wikipedia anyway Dec 01 02:26:54 SD speed ratings are a confusing quagmire anyway Dec 01 02:27:05 dmsuperman, i wouldn't buy the n810 anyways...not unless it drops like $150 >.> Dec 01 02:27:21 I agree Dec 01 02:27:29 I had a choice, I went with the N800 Dec 01 02:27:33 I'm glad for it Dec 01 02:27:35 * zakkm paid $145 CANADIAN for his n800 Dec 01 02:27:40 Only thing I wish it had was a keyboard Dec 01 02:27:46 it makes it really difficult to compare performance since the better cards can perform writes at 8-12MB per second Dec 01 02:27:52 dmsuperman, igo stoaway bt kbd Dec 01 02:27:57 but nobody knows which cards though are Dec 01 02:28:06 s/though/those Dec 01 02:28:13 I have it, it's very laggy and cheap though Dec 01 02:28:19 hey would any bluetooth keyboard work? Dec 01 02:28:26 would be handy to me for school Dec 01 02:28:32 most should Dec 01 02:28:50 are other keyboards like the apple keyboard less laggy? Dec 01 02:28:52 I use it at work and school to take notes Dec 01 02:29:02 But it's just piss-poor compared to a more integrated one Dec 01 02:29:09 dmsuperman: highschool or college/uni? Dec 01 02:29:18 zakkm: University Dec 01 02:29:20 the igo has little to no lag on my phone, but maybe it has better drivers Dec 01 02:29:40 i take notes on mine in highschool...it is good enough >.< Dec 01 02:29:45 It's terrible on my n800 Dec 01 02:29:51 a netbook seems like a better notetaking device anyway Dec 01 02:29:54 It takes a good while, and you can't ever hit the enter key while typing Dec 01 02:29:55 dmsuperman: same here Dec 01 02:30:00 You have to finish typing, wait a moment, then hit enter Dec 01 02:30:03 * zakkm cant afford a netbook Dec 01 02:30:11 to reduce lag: turn off the text prediction bar Dec 01 02:30:13 And it crashes hildon a lot when I connect/disconnect it Dec 01 02:30:17 yeah, i hit the up key instead of enter fairly often too Dec 01 02:30:17 johnx: It's off Dec 01 02:30:28 yup, same here it's off Dec 01 02:30:30 and don't type into the web browser :) Dec 01 02:30:40 er why not? Dec 01 02:30:44 I hit up instead of ? a lot and repeat myself a lot Dec 01 02:30:47 tends to be slow Dec 01 02:30:52 And sometimes it repeats characters a lot Dec 01 02:31:10 Yeah, the repeat rate on it is a nuisance Dec 01 02:31:30 i'm tempted to try out the apple bt keyboard, but i've heard it's also buggy Dec 01 02:31:37 also, consider enabling "performance" mode for the CPU Dec 01 02:31:38 maybe the nokia keyboard works better Dec 01 02:31:38 what do you guys expect from bluetooth? o_O Dec 01 02:31:53 l7 i doubt it Dec 01 02:32:05 it works fine on my smartphone? Dec 01 02:32:11 ive heard even usb keyboards are just as slow actually Dec 01 02:32:16 z4chh: doubt what? Dec 01 02:32:45 the nokia keyboard is better Dec 01 02:32:56 oh Dec 01 02:32:56 johnx: on synaptic theres a package that says .. " this package provides hildon input method application binary" Dec 01 02:33:00 z4chh: I dunno, a $50 keyboard that works with 1/5 or worse the performance of my desktop $15 keyboard is pretty disappointing though Dec 01 02:33:07 hard to say without having used it Dec 01 02:33:08 wouldnt that add proper text to debian? Dec 01 02:33:23 the bt keyboard works fine on my laptop too Dec 01 02:33:37 it's a maemo problem of some sort i'm sure Dec 01 02:34:00 zakkm, "proper text"? Dec 01 02:34:07 uhh Dec 01 02:34:08 you mean the half-screen keyboard or the fullscreen one? Dec 01 02:34:09 hildon typing Dec 01 02:34:13 rather than using on screen keyboard Dec 01 02:34:32 debian *has* hardware keyboard support... Dec 01 02:34:46 it's had it for 11 months Dec 01 02:35:19 if it's not working for you, make sure you have HAL installed Dec 01 02:35:36 then test your keyboard in the console to make sure it's actually being picked up by USB Dec 01 02:35:44 did you enable host mode? Dec 01 02:36:05 i have the n800 Dec 01 02:36:11 me too Dec 01 02:36:14 what's HAL? Dec 01 02:36:24 hal = hardware detection Dec 01 02:36:27 Hardware Abstraction Layer Dec 01 02:36:28 The thing that kills Dave Dec 01 02:36:32 heh Dec 01 02:36:40 or that machine from space odyssey Dec 01 02:36:50 :P Dec 01 02:36:59 beat me to it Dec 01 02:37:02 yeah, hard to resist that joke Dec 01 02:37:14 I'm sorry dave, I can't do that Dec 01 02:37:16 :P Dec 01 02:37:18 zakkm, what is it exactly that you want? the maemo onscreen keyboard or hardware keyboard support? Dec 01 02:37:46 maemo onscreen keyboard Dec 01 02:37:48 in easy debian Dec 01 02:38:10 ah, well thats totally different Dec 01 02:38:25 I'm sorry Dave, I can't give you keyboard support. Dec 01 02:38:42 otherwise you might try to sudo reboot me Dec 01 02:39:40 i really don't have a problem with my igo..it doesn't repeat characters..doesn't crash my hildon...it is a bit laggy..but certainly manageable Dec 01 02:39:59 I type "tacos" and sometimes I get "taccccccccccccos" Dec 01 02:40:06 iiiiiit doesn't repeat characters?? Dec 01 02:40:26 i do most of my typing in terminal though Dec 01 02:40:27 i suppose if you type with a light keypress it doesn't happen often Dec 01 02:40:28 o.o Dec 01 02:40:37 dmsuperman, automatic spelling fixerer :) Dec 01 02:40:38 can the keyboard repeat rate be adjusted? Dec 01 02:40:53 man I could go for some taccccccccccccos Dec 01 02:41:13 yeah i really like tacccccccccccooss too Dec 01 02:41:34 z4chh: As do I Dec 01 02:41:38 z4chh: With my iGo Dec 01 02:41:39 how do you pronounce taccccccccccccos hehe ;p Dec 01 02:41:45 but sudo make me a tacccccccooooooo fails for some reason Dec 01 02:41:48 z4chh: I just reattach screen from home to my n800 Dec 01 02:41:52 like goaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllll Dec 01 02:42:34 this is really stupid - but how do i get to my home folder in the file manager? Dec 01 02:42:40 rm -rf / Dec 01 02:42:41 screen is great though Dec 01 02:42:42 wait' no Dec 01 02:42:50 l7, yeah but if you try to say it..you go taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacoooooooooooooooooooooooooo Dec 01 02:42:52 :P Dec 01 02:42:55 soap: maybe a symlink? Dec 01 02:42:57 soap, the file manager makes me sad Dec 01 02:43:03 heh Dec 01 02:43:23 so you're saying I can't? Dec 01 02:43:33 the file manager makes me cry into my pillow Dec 01 02:43:44 any way to boot and just appear with tty ? Dec 01 02:43:53 like no X or kdrive started automaticly Dec 01 02:44:00 lol Dec 01 02:44:11 Mousey: there's always MC Dec 01 02:44:11 that's funny Dec 01 02:44:18 Mousey, you need to show that file manager who is boss >:) Dec 01 02:44:18 are you sure you want your home dir? maybe what you really want is ~/MyDocs . In that case Nokia is way ahead of you :) Dec 01 02:44:40 don't make me strangle you Dec 01 02:44:47 :D Dec 01 02:45:28 I can see what they were trying to do, and I somewhat agree with hiding the rest of the FS, but I think they should have locked users into $HOME not $HOME/MyDocs Dec 01 02:45:43 also a switch for "show me the rest of the FS, I accept the risk" would be nice Dec 01 02:45:56 Mousey, rm -rf didn't work :( Dec 01 02:46:21 rm -rf /* Dec 01 02:46:48 if you really want do "ln -s /home/user /home/user/MyDocs/Home" Dec 01 02:47:03 wow Dec 01 02:47:11 Iceweasel is really cool on nokia ;p Dec 01 02:47:20 is it fast? Dec 01 02:47:31 it's just firefox 2 iirc Dec 01 02:47:33 same as microb i would say Dec 01 02:47:39 speed wise Dec 01 02:47:46 but its nice seeing a full browser Dec 01 02:47:54 I assume you're using the ff3 version of iceweasel Dec 01 02:48:00 yes Dec 01 02:48:07 it matches my gtk icons, so i believe so Dec 01 02:48:22 well it runs on ARM so it's ff3 :) Dec 01 02:48:25 it uses gtk widgets? that is nice Dec 01 02:48:28 mv cp cd rm ln ls = best file manager ever Dec 01 02:48:41 mmv is nice too Dec 01 02:48:52 when do you ever use ln in a real file manager? :P Dec 01 02:49:03 i use ln all the time Dec 01 02:49:10 on terminal Dec 01 02:49:14 but on a real file manager? Dec 01 02:49:28 what do you mean? Dec 01 02:49:45 it just always seemed pointless to me Dec 01 02:49:50 except for a little dev stuff Dec 01 02:49:55 zakkm: All the time Dec 01 02:50:16 it's handy in making the actual home directory more terminal centric Dec 01 02:50:29 zakkm: symlinks and hardlinks own face Dec 01 02:50:45 ie by linking .sounds to ~/sounds Dec 01 02:50:58 i dont use ln really o.o ...i do a lot of tabbing :) Dec 01 02:51:02 I link my themes folders from ~ to /root too Dec 01 02:51:11 s/.sounds/~MyDocs/.sounds/ Dec 01 02:51:19 I use symlinks whenever possible Dec 01 02:51:29 That way I can move files around without having to affect anything at all Dec 01 02:51:50 how does tabbing replace symlinks? Dec 01 02:51:55 I tend to move big files between my 3 storage drives on my desktop and keep symlinks with their old locations Dec 01 02:52:08 l7: It's better not to ask questions Dec 01 02:52:13 heh Dec 01 02:52:14 johnx: I don't move them, but I do that Dec 01 02:52:24 johnx: I keep my VM on another drive and symlink ~/.VirtualBox to it Dec 01 02:52:28 johnx: which 3 big drives do you have setup? Dec 01 02:53:03 on a real desktop machine rather than maemo? Dec 01 02:53:17 * dmsuperman has almost 1.5TB of storage Dec 01 02:53:21 I have a data addiction Dec 01 02:53:28 yeah same here Dec 01 02:53:41 Hard drive space is cheap Dec 01 02:53:44 well, for example, my music used to live on an internal 200GB drive, then I got a 500GB USB drive and moved the music, symlinked it back to the internal and my music playing apps didn't need to re-import it Dec 01 02:53:44 iiiiii need a better backup scheme for it Dec 01 02:53:49 Having many backups and never having to delete anything rocks Dec 01 02:54:02 l7: rsync + hardlinks = best backup solution ever Dec 01 02:54:09 l7: I wrote a script to do it, want it? Dec 01 02:54:19 dmsuperman: sure, that would be cool Dec 01 02:55:01 i've been playing around with simplebackup, but it's not capable of hardlinking Dec 01 02:55:43 which means restoring incremental backups requires you restore every incremental since your last full backup if you want a complete restore Dec 01 02:55:48 l7: http://dmsuperman.pastebin.com/f5524b35 Dec 01 02:56:01 l7: Mine is meant to backup my "/" but you can adapt it Dec 01 02:56:18 yeah, i guess i would add /etc to it Dec 01 02:56:52 No mine does /etc Dec 01 02:56:59 ah cool Dec 01 02:57:22 It does a full backup of an ubuntu install, and very likely all other distros Dec 01 02:57:36 It doesn't copy /proc and similar virtual mountpoints and the like Dec 01 02:57:47 But it creates the mountpoints for them at the bottom Dec 01 02:58:45 i guess i should print it out and study it a bit later Dec 01 02:58:57 since i'm just learning bash scripting Dec 01 02:59:09 I could explain it if you like Dec 01 02:59:19 I'm pretty proud of it myself, was my first real bash script **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 01 02:59:58 2008