**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 07 02:59:57 2008
Dec 07 03:05:37 <zakkm> is Mer suppose to bring performance boosts at all?
Dec 07 03:06:06 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, you missed the point.
Dec 07 03:06:15 <zakkm> lol
Dec 07 03:06:17 <zakkm> i know the point
Dec 07 03:06:23 <zakkm> im just trying out fennec.. i know its in alpha
Dec 07 03:06:27 <zakkm> and thinking how i want my nokia faster
Dec 07 03:07:17 <SmackPotat> bloomberg.com
Dec 07 03:08:29 <SmackPotat> opps
Dec 07 05:04:26 <pupnik> mytube youtube viewer would be a nice app for PC
Dec 07 05:39:23 <timeless> oh, someone asked about mmc-undefined-name-internal
Dec 07 05:39:24 <timeless> http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/libhildonfm-2.0.5/hildon-fm/hildon-file-system-storage-dialog.c#1223
Dec 07 05:39:37 <timeless> that should be /media/mmc2
Dec 07 05:40:18 <timeless> http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hildon-fm-l10n-public-5.0+r6135/po/en_GB.po#45
Dec 07 05:40:37 <GeneralAntilles> timeless, we gonna get Fremantle stuff in there once the alpha sdk is out.
Dec 07 05:40:53 <GeneralAntilles> Er, make that a question.
Dec 07 05:47:18 <zakkm> yeah it was me
Dec 07 06:09:15 <zakkm> Is it possible to update Flash in Maemo?
Dec 07 06:09:27 <zakkm> Im told the newest Diablo still uses flash 9 , when 10 is clearly out
Dec 07 06:17:12 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, sure, if you can convince Adobe to compile you a copy. . . . :\
Dec 07 06:17:29 <zakkm> they dont release ARM versions?
Dec 07 06:17:31 <mavhc> why is closed source bad again?
Dec 07 06:17:53 <zakkm> cause ppl will fork and make it better than yours
Dec 07 06:17:54 <zakkm> ;p
Dec 07 06:18:02 <zakkm> look at debian and ubuntu ;p
Dec 07 06:18:07 <zakkm> most ppl choose ubuntu
Dec 07 06:18:21 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, lame analogy
Dec 07 06:18:22 <mavhc> it's not a zero sum game though
Dec 07 06:18:30 <zakkm> lol
Dec 07 06:18:46 <zakkm> GeneralAntilles: you have a better one/
Dec 07 06:19:01 <zakkm> better fork and ppl choose the fork
Dec 07 06:19:01 <GeneralAntilles> For why closed source is bad?
Dec 07 06:19:05 <zakkm> no
Dec 07 06:19:16 <zakkm> better one than debian and ubuntu .. where the fork becomes the chosen one
Dec 07 06:19:25 <zakkm> for most people
Dec 07 06:19:26 <GeneralAntilles> I don't see who loses in that analogy
Dec 07 06:19:39 <zakkm> isnt there uhh
Dec 07 06:19:48 <zakkm> theres a opensource flash player i remember
Dec 07 06:19:54 <mavhc> debian gets free paid employees
Dec 07 06:19:56 <zakkm> it sucked lol but it existed
Dec 07 06:20:06 <GeneralAntilles> So people stop using the thing you gave away for free.
Dec 07 06:20:16 <zakkm> Gnash
Dec 07 06:20:17 <GeneralAntilles> Sounds more like you won, because now your hosting costs have gone down.
Dec 07 06:20:19 <zakkm> thats it, had to google
Dec 07 06:20:25 <GeneralAntilles> Either way, Debian and Ubuntu target two different audiences.
Dec 07 06:20:34 <zakkm> yeah i know
Dec 07 06:20:42 <zakkm> mavhc: theres gnash? :P
Dec 07 06:20:48 <zakkm> we should port gnash to nokia :P lol
Dec 07 06:20:54 <rukbat> even better, there's mplayerplugin :-)
Dec 07 06:21:08 <GeneralAntilles> mavhc, I hear it's because evil companies put ungodly things in their source code and you can't tell. ;)
Dec 07 06:21:24 <GeneralAntilles> Gnash is already running.
Dec 07 06:21:30 <zakkm> High Quality Output
Dec 07 06:21:31 <zakkm>     Gnash uses OpenGL for rendering the graphics on the desktop, and AntiGrain (AGG) for embedded framebuffer only devices.
Dec 07 06:21:49 <zakkm> mplayerplugin works?
Dec 07 06:21:50 <zakkm> on microb?
Dec 07 06:22:00 <rukbat> oh, probably not..
Dec 07 06:22:04 <zakkm> started really liking the LCARS skin :P
Dec 07 06:23:27 <mavhc> is there a worse starting point for a gui than: I saw it on tv?
Dec 07 06:24:29 <zakkm> ?
Dec 07 06:24:37 <zakkm> oh lol
Dec 07 06:24:41 <zakkm> lcars works nicely
Dec 07 06:24:48 <zakkm> except black background screws up application manager
Dec 07 06:24:53 <GeneralAntilles> mavhc, it's just a theme. :P
Dec 07 06:24:59 <zakkm> is uhh
Dec 07 06:25:14 <zakkm> ...  /home/user/.mozilla/microb/chrome/userContent.css
Dec 07 06:25:18 <zakkm> still used for microb?
Dec 07 06:25:36 <zakkm> should i do hosts method or usercontent for microb ad blocking?
Dec 07 06:26:59 <zakkm> or both?
Dec 07 06:27:43 <pupnik> mmm maybe i could make a hosts file out of the adblock subscription
Dec 07 06:29:02 <zakkm> which is better method though
Dec 07 06:29:04 <zakkm> hosts or usercontent
Dec 07 06:29:39 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, it's a both deal, not either or.
Dec 07 06:29:54 <zakkm> i should do both?
Dec 07 06:30:00 <zakkm> hosts and usercontent ?
Dec 07 06:30:23 <zakkm> hosts would redirect = blank it...  .. what would usercontent do?
Dec 07 06:30:33 <GeneralAntilles> Both.
Dec 07 06:30:51 <zakkm> so i should do both
Dec 07 06:30:55 <zakkm> replace hosts and usercontent?
Dec 07 06:31:10 <GeneralAntilles> For the third time, yes, both.
Dec 07 06:31:39 <zakkm> sorry, its late im tired
Dec 07 06:31:50 <zakkm> trying to turn my nokia into more of a laptop
Dec 07 06:32:02 <zakkm> but it seems a bit slow for normal laptop usage, well the way i use it
Dec 07 06:36:36 <mavhc> just install adblockplus
Dec 07 06:37:46 <GeneralAntilles> mavhc, AdBlock is slow and crappy
Dec 07 06:38:56 <mavhc> is it faster than loading ads?
Dec 07 06:39:15 <GeneralAntilles> mavhc, that's why you use CSS/hosts.
Dec 07 06:39:44 <GeneralAntilles> and, honestly, the ABP performance hit almost totally eliminates the "not loading ads" gains. :\
Dec 07 06:41:56 <zakkm> does it help alot?
Dec 07 06:42:01 <zakkm> i try to view engadget and stuff on my nokia
Dec 07 06:48:54 <pupnik> i'm frustrated with the horrible slow websites
Dec 07 06:49:11 <pupnik> simple, honest, nonfsckedup websites work great on the tablet
Dec 07 06:49:29 <zakkm> lol
Dec 07 06:49:31 <zakkm> google.ca :D
Dec 07 06:49:31 <mavhc> anyone tried going via one of these mobile browser proxies to simplify the page?
Dec 07 06:49:44 <zakkm> not on nokia, but on pc
Dec 07 06:49:51 <zakkm> mavhc: ^
Dec 07 06:51:47 <mavhc> what about flashblock? I'd guess flash slows it down a lot
Dec 07 06:52:18 <zakkm> why not just disable flash
Dec 07 06:52:24 <pupnik> not to mention multiple security vulnerabilities last year
Dec 07 06:52:24 <zakkm> and enable when need be?
Dec 07 06:52:47 <pupnik> would be nice to be able to temp enable flash with a click on the flash region
Dec 07 06:52:58 <mavhc> that's what flashblock is supposed to make easy
Dec 07 06:53:08 <mavhc> http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/downloads_os2008.html
Dec 07 06:53:28 <zakkm> i use flashblock on my desktop
Dec 07 06:53:30 <zakkm> in camino :P
Dec 07 06:53:40 <zakkm> but its another plugin to startup = slow ;p
Dec 07 06:54:05 <mavhc> slower than flash?
Dec 07 06:54:12 <zakkm> you can disable flash
Dec 07 06:54:14 <zakkm> in microb?
Dec 07 06:54:18 <zakkm> with a click of two buttons
Dec 07 07:03:17 <GeneralAntilles> Why does itT always seem to go to hell in the mornings?
Dec 07 07:03:42 <zakkm> ?
Dec 07 07:03:53 <GeneralAntilles> Either down or sloooow
Dec 07 07:04:31 <zakkm> oh
Dec 07 07:42:07 <RST38h> moo all
Dec 07 07:42:22 <RST38h> General: Too many Americans accessing it!
Dec 07 07:42:53 <RST38h> [hmm, actually that is only partially true given that General is at the east coast]
Dec 07 07:44:06 <AStorm> ok, do you have an idea how to prevent excessive swapping here with maemo
Dec 07 07:44:18 <AStorm> or improve responsiveness in that case?
Dec 07 07:44:41 <RST38h> What are you running?
Dec 07 07:45:27 <AStorm> browser :P
Dec 07 07:45:34 <AStorm> that  is microb
Dec 07 07:46:02 <AStorm> got into swap with them, which neatly locked n810 up for a few minutes
Dec 07 07:46:18 <AStorm> I'd expect at least the other apps to work
Dec 07 07:47:22 <RST38h> ah
Dec 07 07:47:34 <RST38h> The only way is to kill browserd
Dec 07 07:47:37 <AStorm> also running were: xchat, pidgin, osso-xterm with vim
Dec 07 07:47:47 <RST38h> once it is respawned you should be fine
Dec 07 07:47:56 <AStorm> sure
Dec 07 07:47:59 <RST38h> for a while at least
Dec 07 07:48:05 <AStorm> but killing it took minutes
Dec 07 07:48:31 <AStorm> oh, and it still is alive
Dec 07 07:48:37 <AStorm> (and leaking :P)
Dec 07 07:49:29 <AStorm> or... why is rss feed reader running?
Dec 07 07:49:40 <AStorm> I don't have any such applet on desk
Dec 07 07:50:30 <AStorm> s/is/was/
Dec 07 07:51:36 <AStorm> or obexsrv if bt is disabled? :P
Dec 07 07:51:44 <AStorm> waste of a MB
Dec 07 07:52:01 <RST38h> Astorm: there are two processes
Dec 07 07:52:09 <RST38h> One browserd is a small one and it spawns the large one
Dec 07 07:52:20 <AStorm> plus other services
Dec 07 07:52:34 <AStorm> if bt is disabled, all these should be stopped
Dec 07 07:52:39 <AStorm> and started as needed
Dec 07 07:52:47 <AStorm> e.g. bluetooth audio service
Dec 07 07:53:45 <AStorm> or gpsdriver
Dec 07 07:53:57 <AStorm> we have dsme and hal for a reason
Dec 07 07:54:52 <AStorm> these unused services take 32 MB or so together
Dec 07 07:58:16 <AStorm> also, we could use a swap compression patch
Dec 07 07:58:30 <AStorm> there was one recent I think
Dec 07 07:59:43 <AStorm> as the immc is *very* slow
Dec 07 07:59:49 <RST38h> AStorm: wait
Dec 07 07:59:51 <AStorm> 500 KBps
Dec 07 08:00:00 <AStorm> ok
Dec 07 08:00:07 <RST38h> swap compression will slow things to a crawl
Dec 07 08:00:17 <AStorm> nah, why
Dec 07 08:00:18 <RST38h> 'cause gzip is also not free CPU-wise
Dec 07 08:00:23 <AStorm> we have enough cpu
Dec 07 08:00:33 <AStorm> and immc is slow enough
Dec 07 08:00:58 <AStorm> I think it's the mmc io that is taking a lot of time
Dec 07 08:01:09 <AStorm> that's why swapping is so abysmal
Dec 07 08:01:10 <RST38h> AStorm: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3705
Dec 07 08:01:19 <RST38h> AStorm: Enjoy
Dec 07 08:01:44 <AStorm> or we're hitting thrashing :)
Dec 07 08:01:45 <GeneralAntilles> "bug"
Dec 07 08:01:53 <AStorm> (read: need a kernel update)
Dec 07 08:02:04 <AStorm> meh
Dec 07 08:02:14 <AStorm> browserd died as I sent it a HUP
Dec 07 08:02:44 <RST38h> AStorm: In my case browserd did not swap (I had swap off) but basically used 100% CPU
Dec 07 08:03:00 <AStorm> hmm
Dec 07 08:03:10 <RST38h> Once it goes into this kind of cardiac arrest, killing it of basically takes an ssh login + kill
Dec 07 08:03:23 <AStorm> I get to restart it to have browser running
Dec 07 08:03:38 * RST38h even remembers playing with process priorities but it did not help
Dec 07 08:03:45 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, I've yet to have an issue like that with normal browsing.
Dec 07 08:03:45 <AStorm> weird
Dec 07 08:03:49 <RST38h> AStorm: That is because you kill the wrong browserd
Dec 07 08:03:53 <AStorm> web doesn't restart it
Dec 07 08:04:01 <AStorm> heh
Dec 07 08:04:01 <RST38h> General: Greatly depends on the sites you are visiting
Dec 07 08:04:06 <AStorm> how do I restart it?
Dec 07 08:04:08 <GeneralAntilles> Please don't file another "bug" like that in the future, though. :\
Dec 07 08:04:23 <AStorm> I hupped it
Dec 07 08:04:25 <RST38h> AStorm: Look at the process list. You will see two browserds, one small another big
Dec 07 08:04:30 <AStorm> not killed per se
Dec 07 08:04:32 <RST38h> AStorm: Kill the BIG ONE.
Dec 07 08:04:39 <AStorm> but it died anyway
Dec 07 08:04:39 <RST38h> HUP is the same thing
Dec 07 08:04:46 <RST38h> At least for browserd :)
Dec 07 08:04:49 <AStorm> how do I restart the small one then?
Dec 07 08:05:03 <RST38h>   /usr/bin/browserd ? :)
Dec 07 08:05:15 <RST38h> General: It is a valid bug report for a valid issue
Dec 07 08:05:16 <AStorm> weird, which didn't show it
Dec 07 08:05:41 <RST38h> General: The only reason why I will not file another one like this is because I now believe that Nokia engineers don't give a fuck
Dec 07 08:06:14 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, it's nothing of the sort.
Dec 07 08:06:25 <AStorm> hmmh
Dec 07 08:06:38 <RST38h> General: There is another report that is probably going to have similar outcome: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3913
Dec 07 08:06:45 <AStorm> ok, so, what args do I give to it?
Dec 07 08:06:50 <GeneralAntilles> It's criticizing an architecture choice with specious arguments.
Dec 07 08:07:01 <AStorm> (it should have an init script, meh)
Dec 07 08:07:08 <RST38h> General: Well, it is evidently wrong architecture choice
Dec 07 08:07:15 <RST38h> Has to be fixed
Dec 07 08:07:23 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, clearly Nokia doesn't agree.
Dec 07 08:07:46 <RST38h> General: Experimental results are not a matter of agreement
Dec 07 08:07:49 <AStorm> architecture is ok, but leaks are not
Dec 07 08:07:57 <GeneralAntilles> As it's rare that one person is always right about everything, it then comes down to a disagreement over use cases.
Dec 07 08:08:03 <RST38h> General: Leaks memory. Hard to kill. Shaves 3 seconds off load time.
Dec 07 08:08:18 <AStorm> and unless browserd is leakfree, it will be problematic
Dec 07 08:08:19 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, AStorm, bugs that are bugs should be fixed.
Dec 07 08:08:27 <AStorm> :)
Dec 07 08:08:47 <AStorm> well, normal microb took more memory
Dec 07 08:08:51 <RST38h> General: Once again: I have measured the advantage browserd give. It is 3 seconds.
Dec 07 08:08:53 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, if you want to file a bug report, do so, but whining about architecture choices isn't what bugzilla is for.
Dec 07 08:09:10 <AStorm> RST38h, and starting browser took 3s more
Dec 07 08:09:13 <AStorm> so?
Dec 07 08:09:13 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, personally, that's an advantage I'll take gladly.
Dec 07 08:09:17 <AStorm> :)
Dec 07 08:09:20 <RST38h> General: Ok, let s approach it from the other direction
Dec 07 08:09:41 <RST38h> AStorm: Those 3 secs were the whole point of switching to browserd
Dec 07 08:09:44 <AStorm> again, what args is browserd started woth?
Dec 07 08:09:47 <AStorm> *with
Dec 07 08:09:58 <RST38h> prolly without if it is the first process
Dec 07 08:10:21 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, you also realize that browserd will be used for more things than just the browser, right?
Dec 07 08:10:33 <AStorm> like, applets?
Dec 07 08:10:41 <GeneralAntilles> Which would end up reducing RAM usage in the long run, particularly with certain use cases
Dec 07 08:10:41 <RST38h> General: No. Isn't it called BROWSERd? :)
Dec 07 08:10:46 <GeneralAntilles> AStorm, right.
Dec 07 08:10:56 <AStorm> ... could be called xulrunnerd
Dec 07 08:11:04 <AStorm> so don't complain :P
Dec 07 08:11:07 <RST38h> General, it will not reduce the RAM usage. Think about it a bit more.
Dec 07 08:11:16 <AStorm> it might, a bit
Dec 07 08:11:25 <AStorm> by saving on data structures
Dec 07 08:11:27 <RST38h> The proof here is very simple
Dec 07 08:11:29 <RST38h> Nope
Dec 07 08:11:38 <RST38h> Not a bit
Dec 07 08:11:40 <GeneralAntilles> Anyway, I'm not really interested in having this discussion again.
Dec 07 08:11:51 <RST38h> Let us approach it from a different direction
Dec 07 08:11:56 <AStorm> like cookie tables, history, etc.
Dec 07 08:12:02 <RST38h> We have got flash plugin that runs inside browserd
Dec 07 08:12:06 <AStorm> and cache index
Dec 07 08:12:17 <RST38h> It has got this nice feature of waiting in a busy loop doing gettimeofday()
Dec 07 08:12:17 <AStorm> RST38h, yup, that is wrong
Dec 07 08:12:24 <RST38h> Who isi responsible for fixing it?
Dec 07 08:12:27 <AStorm> it should run in a subprocess
Dec 07 08:12:32 <GeneralAntilles> Adobe.
Dec 07 08:12:41 <AStorm> yes, Adobe
Dec 07 08:12:49 <RST38h> AStorm: Think of it: all these things, cache, cookies, history  do they go away once you switch to browserd? :)
Dec 07 08:12:54 <AStorm> it could be worked around like Opera does
Dec 07 08:13:07 <AStorm> RST38h, they're not duplicated
Dec 07 08:13:11 <RST38h> Ok. So, you have got a flash plugin that hangs your tablet hard.
Dec 07 08:13:21 <RST38h> You can't easily kill it because it is run from browserd
Dec 07 08:13:30 <RST38h> You can't file a bug report on it because Nokia is not responsible
Dec 07 08:13:36 <AStorm> the latter is a bug
Dec 07 08:13:50 <RST38h> You can't file bug report with Adobe because Adobe also does not give a fuck
Dec 07 08:13:51 <AStorm> I mean, it shouldn't be run from browserd process
Dec 07 08:13:59 <AStorm> but a subprocess, like a sandbox
Dec 07 08:14:03 <RST38h> What is the preferred course of action here?
Dec 07 08:14:11 <AStorm> afaicr, new xulrunner supports that
Dec 07 08:14:17 <x29a_> chrome would not allow a flash to kill the whole device ;)
Dec 07 08:14:18 <RST38h> AStorm: Ideally, it should be a subprocess with low priority
Dec 07 08:14:33 <RST38h> Chrome would do it by itself instead? =)
Dec 07 08:14:48 <AStorm> x29a, yup, firefox 3 can do that
Dec 07 08:14:55 <x29a> from what i read, it implements the sandbox approach
Dec 07 08:14:55 <AStorm> at least somewhat
Dec 07 08:15:37 <AStorm> opera does it better though :)
Dec 07 08:15:40 <RST38h> AStorm: BTW, there is another bug report about memory leaks: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3704  (do notice that it does not apply to swapping)
Dec 07 08:16:11 <AStorm> RST38h, can't view web until you tell me what argsbrowserd is ran with
Dec 07 08:16:18 <AStorm> :>
Dec 07 08:16:21 <RST38h> A moment, lemme check
Dec 07 08:16:30 <AStorm> unless I start fennec
Dec 07 08:17:14 <RST38h> AStorm: /etc/rc0.d/K15tablet-browser-daemon
Dec 07 08:17:32 <AStorm> ah, /etc/rc*/ not /etc/init.d
Dec 07 08:17:44 * AStorm curses broken init system
Dec 07 08:21:14 <x29a> is it true that you can install apps using the debian-arch branch via apt-get?
Dec 07 08:21:28 <RST38h> No.
Dec 07 08:21:59 <AStorm> not until you add repos
Dec 07 08:22:09 <AStorm> and fix broken deps
Dec 07 08:22:16 <x29a> ah ok
Dec 07 08:22:19 <x29a> damn i cant wait
Dec 07 08:27:25 <AStorm> whee, time to try out fennec tinderbox build
Dec 07 09:25:04 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: alive?
Dec 07 09:35:19 <RST38h> Anybody managed to run TangoGPS?
Dec 07 09:35:30 <RST38h> The .deb package they provide does not install on Diablo
Dec 07 09:35:45 <qwerty12> I did but I don't have a GPS so I uninstalled it afterwards
Dec 07 09:36:41 <qwerty12> or rather, my only gps is unwilling to pair with my N800 :-)
Dec 07 09:39:30 <RST38h> What is the magic trick?
Dec 07 09:40:30 <qwerty12> I just used dpkg. The package has a section of "unknown". Also the desktop file is installed to /usr/share/applications/ rather than /usr/share/applications/hildon so you can either run "tangogps" from the terminal or reboot for it to show up in the menu.
Dec 07 09:41:38 <Meiz_n810> many packages refuse to install via app-mgr
Dec 07 09:42:49 <RST38h> qwerty: Any chance of asking authors to fix the package?
Dec 07 09:43:10 <qwerty12> RST38h, it doesn't really bother me as I don't have a use for the program
Dec 07 09:43:21 <RST38h> hehe
Dec 07 09:43:25 <qwerty12> I tried it out of curiosity :)
Dec 07 09:44:48 * RST38h is preparing a new fMSX release
Dec 07 09:45:12 <RST38h> Next one will probably be the slot machine simulator
Dec 07 09:51:31 <RST38h> ~curse Perl for being anal retentive about locales
Dec 07 09:51:32 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Perl for being anal retentive about locales !
Dec 07 09:58:43 <qwerty12> RST38h, I've got a proper debian package here anyway of tangogps... I'll clean it up and submit a patch
Dec 07 10:01:38 <RST38h> qwerty: Thanks! =)
Dec 07 10:02:09 <AStorm> mmh, new fennec tinderbox builds are much faster :)
Dec 07 10:03:58 <AStorm> and start faster too
Dec 07 10:04:01 <Meiz_n810> tinderbox buils of fennec?
Dec 07 10:04:17 <Meiz_n810> where can i download? :P
Dec 07 10:04:39 <Meiz_n810> fennec repo?
Dec 07 10:10:43 <RST38h> Hehehe, I am going to turn Maemo users into obsessive gamblers!
Dec 07 10:11:09 <qwerty12> RST38h, are you really making a slot machine emulator? :D
Dec 07 10:11:17 <RST38h> I already have one
Dec 07 10:11:23 <qwerty12> hehe, cool! :P
Dec 07 10:11:26 <RST38h> Just need to port it from MSDOS to Maemo
Dec 07 10:16:25 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: yeah, - did you zap your filesystem totally and mkfs it and all that?
Dec 07 10:17:58 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: after these yesterday failures i umounted that partition, did mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk1p2, mounted it back and started all over again.
Dec 07 10:18:06 <Meiz_n810> then it gave me that
Dec 07 10:18:07 <Stskeeps> mm, and still failed
Dec 07 10:18:45 <Meiz_n810> btw, i'm now running merimager
Dec 07 10:18:58 <Meiz_n810> hope it gives me no errors
Dec 07 10:19:38 <Stskeeps> yeah.. we should make some kind of logging for it. Do you get the console-setup questions?
Dec 07 10:21:48 * Stskeeps tries to wake up
Dec 07 10:22:07 <Meiz_n810> yes
Dec 07 10:22:16 <Meiz_n810> (that language setup)
Dec 07 10:22:58 <AStorm> hmm
Dec 07 10:23:09 <Meiz_n810> i have messed with android, so there might be some problems in my tablet, i remember when i failed installing deblet 17 times, reflashing helped :P
Dec 07 10:23:17 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 07 10:23:34 <AStorm> io to rootfs grabs tons of cpu...
Dec 07 10:24:07 <AStorm> afaicr jffs2 uses gzip, which should be fairly fast
Dec 07 10:24:26 <Meiz_n810> Jaunty universe is almost as big as debians was 2 months ago
Dec 07 10:24:56 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Dec 07 10:26:20 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: yeah.. go for the reflashing i guess, i can't exactly pinpoint why this should happen else
Dec 07 10:26:38 <AStorm> hmm
Dec 07 10:26:50 <AStorm> no, it's xomap granning tons of cpu
Dec 07 10:26:54 <AStorm> due to fennec
Dec 07 10:26:56 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: i'am trying one more time...
Dec 07 10:26:58 <AStorm> in background
Dec 07 10:27:19 <AStorm> probably some Xomap bug or slow scaling or sth
Dec 07 10:27:42 <AStorm> *grabbing
Dec 07 10:28:45 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: else i'll just pack up a tar.gz i guess
Dec 07 10:28:57 <Meiz_n810> ok
Dec 07 10:42:29 <t_s_o> now that was slightly weird, my N800 had powered down over night again, and while trying to get it going again i booted it with the charger plugged in. what greeted me was a continual message, "usb device not supported", as if i had plugged in a usb storage device or something...
Dec 07 10:45:16 <AStorm> hmm
Dec 07 10:45:19 <AStorm> funny bug
Dec 07 10:45:55 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: would it be possible to create jffs2 partition to SD and install Mer in it?
Dec 07 10:46:03 <Meiz_n810> (is there any point)
Dec 07 10:47:48 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: no point and it's difficult
Dec 07 10:48:10 <Meiz_n810> okay
Dec 07 10:50:36 <AStorm> hmm
Dec 07 10:51:17 <AStorm> damned "osso rss reader" grabs 100% cpu when it runs
Dec 07 10:51:27 <t_s_o> seems i may be able to trigger it by booting the N800 using a usb charger on low battery...
Dec 07 10:51:31 <qwerty12> turn off the automatic scrolling
Dec 07 10:51:37 <AStorm> why is that even starting/running when no rss app is on?
Dec 07 10:51:48 <AStorm> qwerty12, the applet is off
Dec 07 10:51:51 <AStorm> not added
Dec 07 10:51:53 <qwerty12> ah
Dec 07 10:52:17 <AStorm> it looks like it's scheduled or sth
Dec 07 10:53:44 <AStorm> oh yes, it was autoupdating every 1h
Dec 07 10:53:49 <AStorm> disabled that..
Dec 07 10:54:00 <AStorm> no idea *why* it's on by default
Dec 07 10:55:26 <t_s_o> soone being user friendly over at nokia?
Dec 07 10:56:25 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: can you compile load-applet? :P
Dec 07 10:56:40 <Meiz_n810> so it would be easy to take scrshots
Dec 07 10:56:40 <qwerty12> RST38h, I'd offer you a fixed deb of tangoGPS but the guy who opened the garage project and posted his maemo port thought he was being cute by uploading the original, untouched tangogps source
Dec 07 10:57:36 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: i remember it compiled with no problem on my ubuntu-box...
Dec 07 10:59:50 <AStorm> hmm
Dec 07 11:00:04 <AStorm> Xomap has problems with scaling apparently
Dec 07 11:00:25 <AStorm> so it grabs tons of cpu when fennec is displaying
Dec 07 11:01:21 <AStorm> actually, when fennec is updating its offscreen image
Dec 07 11:06:52 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: gpe-screenshot is quite good to
Dec 07 11:06:53 <Stskeeps> o
Dec 07 11:13:28 <Meiz_n810> ok
Dec 07 11:19:47 <Zic> upgrade which are proposed by an apt-get upgrade in root are useful or useless? because they are not proposed by default by the graphic updater
Dec 07 11:24:06 <Stskeeps> usually you should use the AM instead as there's potential for things screwing up horridly else
Dec 07 11:25:25 <RST38h> qwerty: Heheh :)
Dec 07 11:25:43 <RST38h> qwerty: Makes me wonder whether his deb is also the "original" one :)
Dec 07 11:26:42 <qwerty12> RST38h, hehe, no that's legit (done quickly by a dh_make and I'm guessing a dpkg-buildpackage straight after) program wise, just packaging is odd :)
Dec 07 11:28:52 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: what do you answer at console-setup?
Dec 07 11:30:24 <Meiz_n810> Finland, Finland and Western europe...
Dec 07 11:30:55 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 07 11:31:39 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: Mer imager is almost done installing
Dec 07 11:31:47 <Stskeeps> good
Dec 07 11:32:14 <Stskeeps> if you're on a slow connection where you're at, and you have a linux installation, consider looking into apt-proxy
Dec 07 11:32:16 <RST38h> Compiled the slot machine. No crashes so fare.
Dec 07 11:32:16 <Meiz_n810> Phew...
Dec 07 11:32:20 <Stskeeps> it speeds up things quite a bit
Dec 07 11:32:28 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: installing in which sense? debootstrap? :P
Dec 07 11:32:41 <RST38h> The problem is I do not see the screen, sshing to a tablet hidden in storage 20 meters away
Dec 07 11:32:56 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: it is all done now
Dec 07 11:32:59 <Stskeeps> woo
Dec 07 11:33:36 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: without swap, my tablet always crashes when generating UTF-8 locales
Dec 07 11:33:38 * Stskeeps is unpacking atm himself
Dec 07 11:33:45 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: yeah.. those locales :P
Dec 07 11:34:09 <Meiz_n810> Weird that the problem appears only with UTF ones
Dec 07 11:34:16 <Stskeeps> well we only generate one, so
Dec 07 11:34:22 <Stskeeps> en.GB_UTF-8
Dec 07 11:34:52 <Stskeeps> which is another funny issue for community distributions..
Dec 07 11:34:58 <Stskeeps> nokia sure has gotten their translation right
Dec 07 11:35:36 <Stskeeps> and is it copyright infrigement if people remake the .pos with translations? even if they're the only way to translate
Dec 07 11:36:09 <Stskeeps> (so they look similar to nokia translations)
Dec 07 11:36:30 <lardman> morning
Dec 07 11:36:33 <Stskeeps> morning
Dec 07 11:36:37 <qwerty12> hi lardman
Dec 07 11:36:55 <lardman> qwerty12: any more luck with Qalculate! ?
Dec 07 11:37:27 <qwerty12> lardman, I have no plans to touch it :)
Dec 07 11:37:43 <lardman> ok
Dec 07 11:37:46 <qwerty12> Besides, you're the programmer :P
Dec 07 11:37:51 <lardman> did you push the support libs to Extras?
Dec 07 11:37:59 <qwerty12> No :/
Dec 07 11:38:06 <qwerty12> I don't have the source packages anymore
Dec 07 11:38:09 <lardman> qwerty12: yeah programming is different to arsing about with someone else's package ;)
Dec 07 11:38:20 <Stskeeps> aw, so i'm not a coder atm? damnit
Dec 07 11:38:21 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 07 11:38:22 <lardman> qwerty12: no worries, I'll dig mine out and push them
Dec 07 11:38:43 <qwerty12> lardman, packaging seems fine, but when it crashes with a load of glib errors - I think coding is required ;P
Dec 07 11:39:27 <lardman> yeah, I think that's due to our crappy compiler, at least that used to be the problem with it
Dec 07 11:39:37 <lardman> ~lart code sourcery
Dec 07 11:39:37 * infobot whips out his power stapler and staples code sourcery's foot to the floor
Dec 07 11:40:05 <qwerty12> lart nokia rather :). codesourcery seem on top with their toolchains imo
Dec 07 11:40:13 <lardman> hmm, maybe
Dec 07 11:40:21 <lardman> always used to be very hard to build them
Dec 07 11:40:38 <lardman> don't worry, I imagine we'll have something new pretty soon ;)
Dec 07 11:40:50 <qwerty12> you can get a cs2008 toolchain for scratchbox but the way I got it to work with the diablo sdk is flaky at best
Dec 07 11:40:51 <lardman> hope there's a new version of GCC at least
Dec 07 11:41:16 <lardman> hmm, might just compile it using OE
Dec 07 11:41:22 <Stskeeps> lardman: gcc 4.2 seems to be used in fremantle sdk
Dec 07 11:41:26 <Stskeeps> (i think)
Dec 07 11:41:30 <lardman> good stuff :)
Dec 07 11:41:40 <lardman> how do we know that?
Dec 07 11:42:33 <Stskeeps> http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/diff-newer.html
Dec 07 11:42:40 <Stskeeps> gcc-4.2
Dec 07 11:42:41 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 07 11:42:54 <lardman> nice, thanks :)
Dec 07 11:43:17 <t_s_o> hmm, now thats a interesting page there...
Dec 07 11:43:41 <Stskeeps> meh, not so much anymore
Dec 07 11:44:22 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810, solca: does stlc45xx require firmware? if so, thats -probably- why your wifis dont work .. :P
Dec 07 11:44:51 <Meiz_n810> ooka
Dec 07 11:44:52 <Meiz_n810> y
Dec 07 11:45:06 <Meiz_n810> What modules i should add to bootmanu.conf to boot Mer?
Dec 07 11:45:16 <Stskeeps> the usual deblet ones
Dec 07 11:45:18 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, I thought stlc45xx-cal was for that? (calibration data rather) and solca says he already runs it
Dec 07 11:45:31 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: it requires firmware blob too i think
Dec 07 11:45:37 <qwerty12> umac?
Dec 07 11:45:38 <Stskeeps> .. i'll check
Dec 07 11:46:29 <Stskeeps> "There is no separate firmware, stlc45xx uses the same firmware as
Dec 07 11:46:29 <Stskeeps> cx3110x/umac combination.
Dec 07 11:46:29 <Stskeeps> "
Dec 07 11:47:47 <Stskeeps> ret = request_firmware(&fw, "3826.arm", &stlc->spi->dev);
Dec 07 11:47:51 <Stskeeps> that might be why i guess
Dec 07 11:48:43 <t_s_o> in other words, Stskeeps, the content of said page is outdated?
Dec 07 11:49:07 <Stskeeps> t_s_o: i dunno, but it is rather old and it was quite early they put that list out
Dec 07 11:49:19 <t_s_o> figures...
Dec 07 11:49:40 <Stskeeps> more interesting is the stuff in SVN
Dec 07 11:50:00 <Stskeeps> 768mb swap partition, 2gb linux partition, rest msdosfs, for internal MMC
Dec 07 11:50:29 <t_s_o> internal mmc? bah, i like my two SD card N800...
Dec 07 11:50:34 <Stskeeps> yeah, me too
Dec 07 11:50:45 <Stskeeps> but if there's suddenly 8-32gb inside :P
Dec 07 11:51:12 <qwerty12> be nice if it wasn't soldered on...
Dec 07 11:51:19 <Stskeeps> indeed
Dec 07 11:51:29 * Stskeeps wouldn't mind a two sd-card setup again
Dec 07 11:54:41 <t_s_o> not likely to happen tho, i guess
Dec 07 11:55:24 <qwerty12> Yeah... I wonder who's turn it was to wear the retard cap when that decision was made.
Dec 07 11:55:38 * Stskeeps waits for mer to finish installing
Dec 07 11:56:09 <lardman> qwerty12: I can't see why it makes any odds really, except to people who want to boot from the card
Dec 07 11:56:56 <t_s_o> lifetime of the device ;)
Dec 07 11:57:01 <qwerty12> lardman, On the N810 at least, there have been reports of it messing up and when swap and h-a-m want to create their files on the internal card only, it makes a lot of difference.
Dec 07 11:57:36 <lardman> well that's a bug in the apps
Dec 07 11:58:16 <t_s_o> and now i have a suspicion why nokia wont go dual sd again, it makes people uninterested in upgrading...
Dec 07 11:58:34 <RST38h> ah, the conspiracy theories...
Dec 07 11:58:45 <RST38h> Nokia won't go dual sd because nobody needs dual sd
Dec 07 11:58:59 <AStorm> qwerty12, there is actually enough space to solder in mmc card mount
Dec 07 11:58:59 <AStorm> but would have to exterminate the chip
Dec 07 11:59:16 <lardman> RST38h: +1
Dec 07 11:59:18 <RST38h> People do need some semidicent amount of storage by default which means Nokia will continue soldering sd cards on board
Dec 07 11:59:19 <AStorm> and mod the case
Dec 07 11:59:25 <t_s_o> RST38h: nobody needs a internet tablet either, if one wants to go down that path. dont stop nokia from selling them...
Dec 07 11:59:31 <qwerty12> AStorm, sounds like a bit of work :/
Dec 07 11:59:40 <RST38h> t_s_o: This one is incorrect
Dec 07 11:59:45 <qwerty12> RST38h, just sell it with a 2gb card then
Dec 07 11:59:48 <t_s_o> how so?
Dec 07 11:59:54 <RST38h> t_s_o: It has been somewhat of a sought item last Christmas
Dec 07 11:59:58 <AStorm> btw, my n810 just oom'd
Dec 07 12:00:04 <RST38h> qwerty: more expensive
Dec 07 12:00:18 <RST38h> qwerty: more problems to support too
Dec 07 12:00:18 <AStorm> t_s_o, wrong
Dec 07 12:00:39 <AStorm> it's just cheaper to make
Dec 07 12:00:39 <AStorm> and "batteries included" etc.
Dec 07 12:00:45 <qwerty12> RST38h, true :/. I'm still not a fan of the soldered internal card though, I do think it is a shit idea imo
Dec 07 12:01:04 <AStorm> otherwise, they'd have to include a card
Dec 07 12:01:27 <AStorm> qwerty12, sure
Dec 07 12:01:27 <AStorm> esp. soldering these BGA
Dec 07 12:01:28 <lardman> is it a real card soldered in there?
Dec 07 12:01:35 <lardman> just the gubbins I guess?
Dec 07 12:01:43 <RST38h> qwerty: it is a shitty idea from tinkerer's point of view
Dec 07 12:01:51 <qwerty12> true :)
Dec 07 12:02:17 <AStorm> RST38h, why more problems?
Dec 07 12:02:17 <t_s_o> meh, where is that pandora...
Dec 07 12:02:39 <lardman> t_s_o: hmm, good question
Dec 07 12:02:42 <AStorm> the controller and software support is there
Dec 07 12:03:32 <AStorm> lardman, a mmc chip
Dec 07 12:03:58 <lardman> AStorm: ok
Dec 07 12:04:03 <AStorm> it looks like a card+mount, but is a chip
Dec 07 12:04:15 <lardman> so basically a quick and easy way to add in memory as they don't have space for the slot, etc
Dec 07 12:04:30 <AStorm> afaicr some Samsung chip
Dec 07 12:04:57 <AStorm> nice and tiny
Dec 07 12:04:57 <AStorm> but, not replacable
Dec 07 12:05:13 <t_s_o> from what i recall reading its basically the internals of a SD card, in chip form...
Dec 07 12:05:26 <lardman> AStorm: nor is the NAND though
Dec 07 12:05:28 <AStorm> actually, it's an SD chip
Dec 07 12:05:28 <AStorm> (not SDHC)
Dec 07 12:05:44 <t_s_o> i guess one could solder of the chip and solder on a slot, if one feel like trying...
Dec 07 12:07:05 <t_s_o> i guess nokia did it this way for a quick and reliable location for their gps maps, so some user would not wonder why the device was reporting no maps, and go scream at the support people...
Dec 07 12:07:07 <AStorm> lardman, well, NAND doesn't look like sd card :P
Dec 07 12:07:22 <AStorm> they could put 2x SDHC slot
Dec 07 12:07:22 <AStorm> and larger NAND
Dec 07 12:07:35 <AStorm> that could fly
Dec 07 12:07:47 <t_s_o> i think the nand is limited by the omaps controller
Dec 07 12:07:48 <AStorm> yup
Dec 07 12:07:48 <AStorm> which is wrong
Dec 07 12:08:03 <t_s_o> and the sd slots hooked up via usb or something...
Dec 07 12:08:05 <AStorm> :)
Dec 07 12:08:05 <AStorm> they could've sold "map cards" :P
Dec 07 12:08:24 <lardman> I working on the assumption that there is not enough room in the n810 to put another card slot, therefore they've just stuck in the gubbins as a cheap way to add extra memory
Dec 07 12:08:27 <t_s_o> or just included a 2GB SD in the box...
Dec 07 12:08:50 <Stskeeps> yeah, i got a 64mb in my n800 box :P
Dec 07 12:08:53 <Stskeeps> no complaints there
Dec 07 12:09:15 <AStorm> lardman, there is enough
Dec 07 12:09:15 <AStorm> more than enough
Dec 07 12:09:16 <t_s_o> iirc, the internals are just like the N800, they shaved of some size by removing the dpad from the front and shrinking the other buttons, thats all...
Dec 07 12:09:27 <lardman> ah well
Dec 07 12:09:33 <AStorm> theres a block of free space around that chip
Dec 07 12:09:51 <AStorm> enough to fit another card mount like the one currently present
Dec 07 12:10:06 <t_s_o> i suspect that if one put a N800 and a N810 with the back covers off, side by side, it would look more or less the same...
Dec 07 12:10:58 <AStorm> t_s_o, I still have the naked n810 pics
Dec 07 12:10:58 <AStorm> Stskeeps, in mer, please do activate accessx
Dec 07 12:11:10 <t_s_o> :P
Dec 07 12:11:14 <t_s_o> geek porn
Dec 07 12:11:16 <AStorm> for sticky keys
Dec 07 12:11:36 <AStorm> (instead of hildon-i-m doing them)
Dec 07 12:11:36 <AStorm> Stskeeps, btw, I'm about to build a new kernel
Dec 07 12:11:58 <AStorm> what is needed to run new wifi?
Dec 07 12:11:58 <AStorm> umac.ko?
Dec 07 12:12:22 <Stskeeps> AStorm: think solca's a better person to ask about these things
Dec 07 12:12:31 <Stskeeps> stlc45xx doesn't need umac.ko
Dec 07 12:12:42 <Stskeeps> but needs 3826.arm firmware it seems
Dec 07 12:14:07 <AStorm> sorry, my irc is lagged due to 64k and updating kernel git trees
Dec 07 12:14:07 <AStorm> solca, what is needed to run new wifi driver?
Dec 07 12:15:03 <AStorm> mhm
Dec 07 12:15:03 <AStorm> where do I get that?
Dec 07 12:15:17 <Stskeeps> 3826.arm firmware is laying in initfs
Dec 07 12:16:09 <AStorm> also, I'll need a fresh Xomap video driver... any easy (read: no sbox) way to build it vs new kernel headers?
Dec 07 12:17:16 <AStorm> good
Dec 07 12:17:36 <Stskeeps> AStorm: use xorg omapfb driver i guess :P
Dec 07 12:17:52 <Stskeeps> no clue if it runs on maemo though
Dec 07 12:18:25 <AStorm> Stskeeps, or maybe you could build me a .deb of omap driver vs latest linux-omap headers? :>
Dec 07 12:18:37 <Stskeeps> AStorm: i run typical diablo kernel sorry :P
Dec 07 12:19:05 <AStorm> uhm...
Dec 07 12:19:14 * Stskeeps is looking forward to solca's kexec-enabled bootloader
Dec 07 12:19:25 <RST38h> Yohooooo! Slots run!
Dec 07 12:19:47 <AStorm> I don't have a build env
Dec 07 12:19:47 <AStorm> because sbox is horrid
Dec 07 12:19:47 <AStorm> I *could* build it on the device though...
Dec 07 12:20:25 <AStorm> after moving system to immc
Dec 07 12:20:25 <AStorm> and installing toolchain
Dec 07 12:20:28 <Stskeeps> okay, status bar applets and home applets, suggestions anyone?
Dec 07 12:20:32 <Stskeeps> has to be OSS and in extras
Dec 07 12:20:44 <Stskeeps> i have a-backlight already
Dec 07 12:21:02 <AStorm> Stskeeps, it doesn't matter what you're running
Dec 07 12:21:02 <AStorm> only headers matter :)
Dec 07 12:21:34 <AStorm> you could build one vs linux-omap git headers, right? :)
Dec 07 12:21:34 <AStorm> (backup your current headers, obviously)
Dec 07 12:22:09 <AStorm> load-applet
Dec 07 12:22:44 <Stskeeps> mm, that's true, meiz ported that without issue
Dec 07 12:23:58 <Stskeeps> ok, seriously, " automake-1.7 --add-missing --foreign || automake --add-missing> --foreign
Dec 07 12:24:01 <Stskeeps> "
Dec 07 12:24:02 <Stskeeps> i see that in countless files
Dec 07 12:24:05 <Stskeeps> isn't the > an error?
Dec 07 12:24:30 <AStorm> btw, kexec is simple enough, but I'm not sure busybox has a tool to use it
Dec 07 12:24:59 <AStorm> something would have to be added
Dec 07 12:25:10 <Stskeeps> yeah, solca's working on it
Dec 07 12:25:42 * lcuk wakes up after his first ever brazilian..
Dec 07 12:25:45 <lcuk> ..meal
Dec 07 12:27:43 <AStorm> yup, it is
Dec 07 12:27:45 * lcuk ate slices of practically every animal
Dec 07 12:27:52 <Stskeeps> an error?
Dec 07 12:28:01 <Stskeeps> why on earth is it -everywhere- then
Dec 07 12:28:02 <AStorm> but, it might be some horrible workaround
Dec 07 12:28:02 <AStorm> it isn't ran anyway
Dec 07 12:28:16 <Stskeeps> on automake > 1.7 systems it is :P
Dec 07 12:30:01 <AStorm> ohfail
Dec 07 12:30:01 <AStorm> autofail
Dec 07 12:31:15 <jaska> autofools
Dec 07 12:31:27 <jaska> (not you, the software :)
Dec 07 12:31:51 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: is symlink fb0 > fb needed anymore?
Dec 07 12:33:24 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: no, i fixed this
Dec 07 12:33:32 <Stskeeps> Option "fb" "/dev/fb0" in xorg.conf
Dec 07 12:34:33 <Meiz_n810> okay
Dec 07 12:34:34 <AStorm> gimme that mer
Dec 07 12:35:10 <AStorm> a variant installable to immc :>
Dec 07 12:35:10 <AStorm> and yojur build env
Dec 07 12:35:51 <Stskeeps> hehe, if you're thinking of cross-compiler, we don't have one just yet, variant installable to immc.. sec
Dec 07 12:36:14 <lardman> AStorm: why is sb horrid?
Dec 07 12:39:53 <AStorm> lardman, it's debian
Dec 07 12:40:26 <AStorm> sb1 requires disabling vm randomization
Dec 07 12:40:26 <AStorm> and I hate packaging for debian
Dec 07 12:40:41 <AStorm> did I mention I hate .deb?
Dec 07 12:41:29 <Stskeeps> AStorm: grab http://ports.ubuntu.com/pool/main/d/debootstrap/debootstrap_1.0.10ubuntu1_all.deb , install http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/installer/deblet-installer/usr/libexec/deblet/md5sum in /bin/md5sum and chmod +x it, and apt-get install binutils, .. and then mer-imager-20081207-1339.tar.gz , cd mer-imager-*, sh mer-imager targets/mer-n800-only-fs /YOUR/TARGET/FS
Dec 07 12:41:45 <Stskeeps> (.. not very user friendly atm)
Dec 07 12:43:13 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, is there wifi in mer?
Dec 07 12:43:27 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: usbnet, no wifi just yet
Dec 07 12:43:43 <Stskeeps> trying to avoid touching non-OSS things while i build atm
Dec 07 12:44:19 <qwerty12_N800> hmm :/ is g_file_storage available? usbnet doesn't agree with my desktop
Dec 07 12:44:20 <x29a> i read that there is some openmaps app for maemo, is that totally free?
Dec 07 12:44:28 <AStorm> Stskeeps, where? on the device?
Dec 07 12:44:31 <Stskeeps> AStorm: yeah
Dec 07 12:44:39 <Stskeeps> we'll make tar.gz's eventually :P
Dec 07 12:44:43 <x29a> or am i bound to the nokiamaps/non-free solutions?
Dec 07 12:44:58 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: could you add libgtkstylus and sudo to n800 target?
Dec 07 12:45:11 <AStorm> x29a, maemo-mapper?
Dec 07 12:45:12 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: sure on sudo
Dec 07 12:45:22 <x29a> AStorm: ill check on that, thank you
Dec 07 12:45:23 <Meiz_n810> k
Dec 07 12:45:28 <AStorm> it can use OpenStreet and Google Maps
Dec 07 12:45:28 <AStorm> and more
Dec 07 12:45:42 <lardman> AStorm: I fear we're stuck with it until the tablets use a different format ;)
Dec 07 12:46:02 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: you can probably easily hack up g_serial
Dec 07 12:46:08 <Stskeeps> i think the .ko is there
Dec 07 12:46:31 <AStorm> ehh
Dec 07 12:46:43 <AStorm> lardman, Gentoo on armel anyone?
Dec 07 12:46:43 <AStorm> :/
Dec 07 12:46:43 <qwerty12_N800> yeah, shouldn't be hard, i've used it in maemo
Dec 07 12:46:52 <lardman> AStorm: no way on Earth!
Dec 07 12:47:05 <AStorm> I just want a new kernel with less "misfeatures"
Dec 07 12:47:07 <Stskeeps> AStorm: slonsomething worked on this already
Dec 07 12:47:19 <AStorm> Stskeeps, g_serial is from kernel
Dec 07 12:47:19 <lardman> mad people
Dec 07 12:47:20 <qwerty12_N800> slonopotamus iirc
Dec 07 12:47:45 <AStorm> the serial gadget
Dec 07 12:47:56 <Stskeeps> yeah, i know
Dec 07 12:47:57 <qwerty12_N800> lardman, yeah, compiling on device isn't my cup of tea either :P
Dec 07 12:48:00 <x29a> AStorm: i guess im all set with http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/travel/
Dec 07 12:48:11 <AStorm> yup
Dec 07 12:48:34 <AStorm> he failed at building something :)
Dec 07 12:48:34 <AStorm> toolchain I guess
Dec 07 12:48:57 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: bootmode 4 in rescue menu is g_serial, made the gfx already :P then it's pretty trivial to make one based on usbnet-emergency-telnetd
Dec 07 12:48:59 <AStorm> that I've already done
Dec 07 12:49:08 <AStorm> ah, no, python :)
Dec 07 12:49:22 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, cool
Dec 07 12:49:40 <AStorm> meh
Dec 07 12:49:49 <AStorm> use dropbear
Dec 07 12:50:02 <Stskeeps> AStorm: when he doesn't have usbnet.. :P
Dec 07 12:50:05 <AStorm> emergency-ssh > emergency-telnet
Dec 07 12:50:21 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: https://code.launchpad.net/~carsten-munk/m-r/usbnet-emergency-telnetd
Dec 07 12:50:44 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: it actually boots straight into hildon now and has advanced backlight, woo :P
Dec 07 12:51:02 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, hehe, nice work!
Dec 07 12:51:14 <Stskeeps> (though only when console is activated, hmm. :P)
Dec 07 12:51:19 <AStorm> Stskeeps, how can he not have usbnet?
Dec 07 12:51:21 <qwerty12_N800> but load-applet or nothing :P
Dec 07 12:51:34 <AStorm> g_ether
Dec 07 12:51:50 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: compiling that right now
Dec 07 12:52:03 <qwerty12_N800> AStorm, one day; it worked with my desktop, the next day ; not
Dec 07 12:52:09 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, woot
Dec 07 12:52:19 <Meiz_n810> Maemo packages conflict with epiphany-webkit and gdm :(
Dec 07 12:52:46 <AStorm> heh
Dec 07 12:52:48 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: yeah.. i haven't touched outside packages just yet
Dec 07 12:52:53 <zpol> hola
Dec 07 12:52:54 <Stskeeps> the big sinner is gnomevfs2
Dec 07 12:53:01 <Stskeeps> and apt for being silly
Dec 07 12:53:03 <Meiz_n810> yep
Dec 07 12:53:26 <Stskeeps> does it boot into hildon?
Dec 07 12:56:28 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: load-applet hereby brewing
Dec 07 12:56:41 <qwerty12_N800> whee :)
Dec 07 12:57:41 <Stskeeps> (#merbuilder on jaiku, warning, a lot of traffic.)
Dec 07 12:57:57 <qwerty12_N800> perhaps fiferboy's large-statusbar-clock or the statusbarclock if you like analog clocks? (both in extras)
Dec 07 13:02:16 <Stskeeps> mm, that'll have to be queued, don't have alarm framework yet
Dec 07 13:02:20 <Stskeeps> (large-statusbar-clock)
Dec 07 13:03:00 <qwerty12_N800> ah. i dunno if anyone uses its alarm feature :)
Dec 07 13:03:51 <Stskeeps> but anyway, it seems like the stuff is stable enough to start putting stuff on top of now
Dec 07 13:04:11 <Stskeeps> still some APIs missing obviously
Dec 07 13:04:26 <Stskeeps> and contents of control panel. :P
Dec 07 13:05:26 <Stskeeps> should probably port osso-xterm..
Dec 07 13:06:53 <qwerty12_N800> oh, if you do compile control panel (dunno if it's been done), include yerga's fullscreen patch
Dec 07 13:07:30 <Meiz_n810> i'll try to make kourou work :)
Dec 07 13:08:51 <AStorm> mhm
Dec 07 13:08:51 <AStorm> and xchat
Dec 07 13:08:51 <AStorm> :)
Dec 07 13:08:57 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: already done
Dec 07 13:09:05 <qwerty12_N800> cool
Dec 07 13:09:16 <Stskeeps> dont really have any contents of it though
Dec 07 13:09:20 <qwerty12_N800> AStorm, +1 :)
Dec 07 13:10:41 <AStorm> don't forget to grab ukeyboard too
Dec 07 13:14:52 <AStorm> meh, 64k + git = 10h dload
Dec 07 13:14:52 <AStorm> :>
Dec 07 13:15:18 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 07 13:21:49 <lardman> hmm, can I save long long data in an sqllite database?
Dec 07 13:22:20 <AStorm> sure
Dec 07 13:22:31 <lardman> as INTEGER, or as TEXT?
Dec 07 13:22:37 <AStorm> you can have even larger numbers
Dec 07 13:22:53 <AStorm> sqlite stores all as text, so...
Dec 07 13:23:01 <AStorm> doesn't matter
Dec 07 13:23:11 <lardman> hmm, it can store real & integer data in binary form now
Dec 07 13:23:17 <AStorm> INTEGER conversion will cut to 64b on most wrappers
Dec 07 13:23:21 <lardman> ok, so all as text then will be easiest
Dec 07 13:23:35 <AStorm> but e.g. not in python sqlite wrapper
Dec 07 13:23:41 <lardman> actually I probably only need 64bit
Dec 07 13:24:09 <AStorm> for what?
Dec 07 13:24:16 <lardman> UPC number
Dec 07 13:24:31 <AStorm> may I remind you to change transaction mode
Dec 07 13:24:39 <AStorm> if you're writing a lot of data
Dec 07 13:24:45 <lardman> please do, and tell me what/how too :)
Dec 07 13:24:47 <AStorm> :)
Dec 07 13:25:11 <AStorm> transaction in sqlite is expensive, ending it forces an fsync
Dec 07 13:25:33 <AStorm> so, you don't want autocommit
Dec 07 13:25:40 <AStorm> check sqlite docs
Dec 07 13:25:47 <lardman> ok
Dec 07 13:25:58 <lardman> right, have to go into town, bbl
Dec 07 13:26:01 <lardman> thanks AStorm
Dec 07 13:26:21 <lcuk> AStorm, do you need a transaction if you are writing a single record at a time
Dec 07 13:26:25 <lcuk> on a single user db
Dec 07 13:26:57 * lcuk thought transactions were only required for bulk operations updating multiple tables requiring concurrency
Dec 07 13:27:01 <AStorm> you don't
Dec 07 13:27:13 <AStorm> but you want to disable autocommit then
Dec 07 13:27:13 <AStorm> as it fsyncs on each commit
Dec 07 13:27:24 <AStorm> lcuk, yes
Dec 07 13:27:34 <AStorm> but sqlite fsyncs its files
Dec 07 13:27:43 <AStorm> which is *slow*
Dec 07 13:27:52 <AStorm> you don't want to do that every query
Dec 07 13:27:54 <lcuk> ahhh, this is showing itself currently with firefox updating its good/bad site database
Dec 07 13:28:16 <AStorm> thus, you batch things in a transaction
Dec 07 13:28:20 <lcuk> on linux the fsyncing is taking much longer - i was reading a discussion
Dec 07 13:28:57 <lcuk> so sqlite stores transaction in memory until ready then blits it out in one go
Dec 07 13:32:00 * lcuk still cant believe he ate chicken heart
Dec 07 13:32:34 <Stskeeps> lcuk: when i was in hong kong they served a whole chicken.. with head
Dec 07 13:32:41 <Stskeeps> i don't like food looking at me
Dec 07 13:33:10 <lcuk> yeah, that would be disconcerning
Dec 07 13:33:45 <lcuk> the worst one that i could never try is live fish sushi
Dec 07 13:37:59 * Stskeeps tries out load-applet
Dec 07 13:41:27 <RST38h> Gentlemen, anybody willing to look fo
Dec 07 13:41:35 <RST38h> mghm
Dec 07 13:41:51 <RST38h> Gentlemen, anybody willing to look for slots-related imagery on the Net?
Dec 07 13:43:19 <lcuk> what do you mean
Dec 07 13:43:44 <RST38h> stuff shown on slot machine drums
Dec 07 13:46:48 <lcuk> RST38h, you mean the whole strip of these: http://www.allslotsgames.com/image/slots_work.jpg
Dec 07 13:48:10 <lcuk> http://cgi.ebay.com/Golden-Nugget-Slot-Machine-Reel-Strip-Set_W0QQitemZ310103973488QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20081127?IMSfp=TL081127112008r33459#ebayphotohosting
Dec 07 13:48:49 <lcuk> you would be better starting with individual glyphs for each hit wouldnt you - that way you can arrange them how you want
Dec 07 13:51:48 <RST38h> yea
Dec 07 13:51:48 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: load applet works without hassle
Dec 07 13:52:01 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, w00t
Dec 07 13:52:59 <Stskeeps> best way to reboot.. kill dsme
Dec 07 13:52:59 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 07 13:53:26 <RST38h> Need this: http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/arts-and-entertainment/6910013-slot-symbols.php?id=6910013 but for free
Dec 07 13:54:31 <lcuk> RST38h, go and troll the barroom games available in linux, most will be gpl and most will have assets like you need
Dec 07 13:54:56 <lcuk> or just mock up your own while you wait
Dec 07 13:54:59 <RST38h> ah
Dec 07 13:55:18 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, run-standalone.sh dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest="com.nokia.mce" --print-reply "/com/nokia/mce/request" com.nokia.mce.request.req_reboot ftw :P
Dec 07 13:55:23 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: no MCE
Dec 07 13:55:23 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 07 13:55:32 <Stskeeps> (yet)
Dec 07 13:55:33 <qwerty12_N800> powerlaunch?
Dec 07 13:55:40 <Stskeeps> not yet, but it will be there
Dec 07 13:55:50 <gnuton> hey guys!
Dec 07 13:56:06 <qwerty12_N800> skeen, iirc powerlaunch listens to mce dbus commands
Dec 07 13:56:09 <qwerty12_N800> hi gnuton
Dec 07 13:56:21 <gnuton> hello qwerty12_N800 ! :D
Dec 07 13:56:39 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: yeah, it has a mce replacement
Dec 07 13:57:07 <lcuk> hiya gnuton
Dec 07 13:57:17 <gnuton> Hola lcuk ! :D
Dec 07 13:57:25 <AStorm> broken replacement too
Dec 07 13:57:39 <gnuton> lcuk: I installed your application (DEB) on my device.. :D
Dec 07 13:57:41 <Stskeeps> so-so
Dec 07 13:57:46 <lcuk> lets see if i get this right..  gnuton, you found your way here.  hope mapper is going well
Dec 07 13:58:04 <lcuk> :D excellent
Dec 07 13:58:32 <gnuton> lcuk: but some time it reboot my device :P
Dec 07 13:59:01 <gnuton> reboots
Dec 07 13:59:03 <lcuk> :( thats not good, upgrade your drivers or buy a new graphics card
Dec 07 13:59:22 <gnuton> lcuk: :P
Dec 07 13:59:49 <lcuk> how often though?  cos its not right that it dies
Dec 07 14:00:30 <lcuk> mine copes with all sorts and i havent had it crash at all recently (mainly because ive become a user fulltime instead of screwing with it)
Dec 07 14:00:44 <gnuton> It happens only few times.
Dec 07 14:00:53 <lcuk> a few times more than it should
Dec 07 14:01:41 <lcuk> the worst part is that i cannot code round it, its not a bug in code from what i or others can see and some machines are perfectly find whilst others are less stable
Dec 07 14:01:49 <lcuk> fine ^
Dec 07 14:02:00 <gnuton> :(
Dec 07 14:02:04 <qwerty12_N800> m-vo, hey, you around?
Dec 07 14:02:58 <gnuton> It's time for a good shower! See you later..
Dec 07 14:03:11 <lcuk> cya later - but 1 thing, did you like what you saw
Dec 07 14:03:58 <lcuk> mmmmm idea for others, can i make liqbase part of the OS watchdog thing, so if it dies it will be restarted
Dec 07 14:04:06 <Stskeeps> probably
Dec 07 14:04:10 <Stskeeps> but the interfaces aren't public
Dec 07 14:04:15 <Stskeeps> .. i think
Dec 07 14:04:17 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, run it with dsmetool
Dec 07 14:04:18 <Stskeeps> (dsmetool?)
Dec 07 14:04:21 <Stskeeps> yeah
Dec 07 14:04:21 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 07 14:04:31 <qwerty12_N800> :P
Dec 07 14:04:36 <lcuk> thanks, when it comes closer to the time ill look into it
Dec 07 14:04:49 <Stskeeps> liqOS?
Dec 07 14:05:19 <lcuk> no, you are building the OS :) ill just give you a pretty playground for the ui :)
Dec 07 14:06:58 <lcuk> i do like the sound of it the more people say it though :P :D
Dec 07 14:08:25 * Stskeeps is ponders what kind of impact on that being able to royally fuck about with hildon desktop layout will do of possibilities
Dec 07 14:09:41 <lcuk> "We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical."
Dec 07 14:10:02 <lcuk> "We can deluge you with a thousand channels or expand one single image to crystal clarity and beyond."
Dec 07 14:10:09 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: think it's possible to inject the tty.py and getpass thing into the .deb so i can stop having to give people .tar.gzs? :P
Dec 07 14:10:26 <Stskeeps> (i suspect you can actually put it in the bzr directory)
Dec 07 14:11:10 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, i'll do it when I'm on my but i didn't want to cause conflicts between packages :P
Dec 07 14:11:18 <qwerty12_N800> ^computer
Dec 07 14:11:27 <Stskeeps> yeah, - that's why im saying it is possible to put them other places, i guess :P
Dec 07 14:12:19 <qwerty12_N800> if it works like that  cool, if not, i'll make a postinst with dirty solutions involving || true's :P
Dec 07 14:12:23 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 07 14:18:53 <Stskeeps> http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-loadadv.png
Dec 07 14:20:00 <qwerty12_N800> woot, now all you need is a clock & possibly adv-power (i know, i know ; it's not in extras :))
Dec 07 14:20:18 <Stskeeps> pybattery you mean? :P
Dec 07 14:20:19 <Stskeeps> or?
Dec 07 14:20:42 <qwerty12_N800> nah, the General convinced him to change the name
Dec 07 14:20:54 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 07 14:21:30 <qwerty12_N800> the thread's title still saying pybattery is a limitation of vbulletin
Dec 07 14:21:55 <RST38h> qwerty: You reimplemented it in C?
Dec 07 14:22:10 <qwerty12_N800> no :)
Dec 07 14:22:16 <qwerty12_N800> I wish :D
Dec 07 14:22:36 <RST38h> eh
Dec 07 14:22:41 <lcuk> Stskeeps, thats amazing :D
Dec 07 14:24:06 <Stskeeps> lcuk: still a long way to go
Dec 07 14:25:01 <Stskeeps> so, what should be part of Mer base firmware image?
Dec 07 14:25:04 <lcuk> Stskeeps, but its emerging
Dec 07 14:25:08 <Stskeeps> only OSS things are allowed
Dec 07 14:26:05 <qwerty12_N800> goatse
Dec 07 14:27:26 <Stskeeps> not OSS afaik :P
Dec 07 14:27:39 <RST38h> how do you know?
Dec 07 14:28:10 <qwerty12_N800> it would be a very welcoming background image to replace plankton's one :p
Dec 07 14:28:50 <RST38h> Weird...More and more people do not know what to do with a .zip file
Dec 07 14:29:14 <RST38h> qwerty: or maybe you should go with tubgirl...
Dec 07 14:29:29 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: feel free to find new bgs :P
Dec 07 14:29:35 <RST38h> qwerty: as better reflecting the spirit of open source...
Dec 07 14:29:41 <qwerty12_N800> hehe :P
Dec 07 14:30:27 <qwerty12_N800> ~curse collabora's pidgin-data package for screwing with gconf and being full of shit
Dec 07 14:30:28 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, collabora's pidgin-data package for screwing with gconf and being full of shit !
Dec 07 14:31:08 <RST38h> qwerty: Do not install collabora's pidgin
Dec 07 14:31:24 <RST38h> They never tested it, and only provide it as a dependency for their own comms stuff
Dec 07 14:32:49 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, i was following qole's instructions to get rtcomm working. did dpkg -L pidgin-data, found one useful file so i edited /var/lib/dpkg/status to remove the dependency on pidgin-data data and did a apt-get remove --purge pidgin-data
Dec 07 14:33:05 <qwerty12_N800> 20mb back :)
Dec 07 14:33:12 <RST38h> Oh, never install this crap
Dec 07 14:33:22 <RST38h> If you want pidgin install nix's version
Dec 07 14:33:55 <qwerty12_N800> yeah, i don't want pidgin though :). their libpurple depends on it :/
Dec 07 14:34:32 <RST38h> pidgin-data is actually an optional package if you install nix's stuff
Dec 07 14:35:23 <qwerty12_N800> I can see why, it's just full of pics & sounds. God knows why libpurple for rtcomm needs it...
Dec 07 14:36:01 * Stskeeps queues python-hildondesktop for build
Dec 07 14:36:05 <Stskeeps> think that'll make some things easier
Dec 07 14:52:08 <Meiz_n810> Mer looks great!
Dec 07 14:52:09 <Meiz_n810> http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer#
Dec 07 14:52:13 <Meiz_n810> added some pics
Dec 07 14:53:31 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: how can i change the user that hildon-desktop is started
Dec 07 14:53:45 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: so far it's "just root" :P i'll fix it later this week
Dec 07 14:53:55 <Meiz_n810> ok
Dec 07 14:54:06 <Stskeeps> you should post those pics on Jaiku too
Dec 07 14:54:24 <Stskeeps> and yes, that actually looks better than i expected O_o
Dec 07 14:54:49 <Meiz_n810> I posted already =P
Dec 07 14:54:53 <Stskeeps> hehe, good
Dec 07 14:55:08 <Meiz_n810> pcmanfm wont work :(
Dec 07 14:55:14 <Stskeeps> yeah, it's a bit odd
Dec 07 14:55:32 <Meiz_n810> but it's running in the backround...
Dec 07 14:56:09 <Stskeeps> gpicview seems to work fine though
Dec 07 14:56:16 <Meiz_n810> not for me
Dec 07 14:56:23 <Stskeeps> oh, isn't that the image viewer?
Dec 07 14:56:35 <Meiz_n810> yes it is
Dec 07 14:56:36 <Meiz_n810> but
Dec 07 14:56:49 <Meiz_n810> if i try to open pic it crases
Dec 07 14:56:54 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 07 14:56:55 <Meiz_n810> *crashes
Dec 07 14:57:15 <Meiz_n810> Maybe because root user?
Dec 07 14:57:28 <Stskeeps> well or just that it's a rather fragile system right now
Dec 07 14:57:30 <Stskeeps> but maybe
Dec 07 14:57:36 <Stskeeps> or problems with gnomevfs2
Dec 07 14:57:48 <Meiz_n810> yep
Dec 07 14:58:02 <Stskeeps> but yes, it actually looks quite good
Dec 07 14:58:11 <Meiz_n810> yep
Dec 07 14:58:12 <Meiz_n810> i'll install lxterminal, so i can do something in Mer
Dec 07 14:58:50 <Meiz_n810> apt-get update takes forever with my great connection speed
Dec 07 14:58:52 <Meiz_n810> :P
Dec 07 14:59:05 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 07 14:59:46 <b1ackdeath> quick question on porting software for the n810 would it be better to have a .deb file or a tar ball or it really just matters what the dependencies are???
Dec 07 15:00:56 <AStorm> .deb would be better
Dec 07 15:01:52 <b1ackdeath> then its all a mater of the  dependencies
Dec 07 15:05:11 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: you should try compiling some maemo apps i guess
Dec 07 15:05:32 <Meiz_n810> ok
Dec 07 15:05:47 <AStorm> b1ackdeath, more like, ease of installation
Dec 07 15:06:07 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: for armel or x86?
Dec 07 15:06:34 <Stskeeps> armel
Dec 07 15:06:35 <b1ackdeath> right? and all the tools i would need to port a deb are in the maemo vmware appliance
Dec 07 15:06:48 <Stskeeps> compiling on tablet would probably be painful but possible :P
Dec 07 15:06:48 <AStorm> b1ackdeath, yes
Dec 07 15:06:49 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: ok
Dec 07 15:06:56 <AStorm> in scratchbox
Dec 07 15:11:54 <b1ackdeath> has anyone looked at the extented battery for the n810
Dec 07 15:25:16 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: is it possible to add lancode repo and install diablo 12pt themes?
Dec 07 15:25:35 <Meiz_n810> :L
Dec 07 15:25:39 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: im not sure we have the same icons and stuff. Maybe?
Dec 07 15:25:55 <Meiz_n810> I'll try :P
Dec 07 15:26:22 <Meiz_n810> when all this build stuff installs first
Dec 07 15:26:46 <qwerty12_N800> Meiz_n810, it's probably easier just editing the gtkrc of your favourite theme to change sizes
Dec 07 15:27:31 <Meiz_n810> qwerty12_N800: size was not the biggest point... I want to try other themes too
Dec 07 15:27:43 <qwerty12_N800> meh
Dec 07 15:30:33 <nikosapi> Might someone know why my n810 isn't booting past the initial "Nokia" screen? It doesn't even get to the loading progress bar...
Dec 07 15:31:06 <Stskeeps> nikosapi: time for a reflash, i assume you've tried pulling the battery?
Dec 07 15:31:08 <nikosapi> I tried re-flashing the kernel and the initfs and still nothing :(
Dec 07 15:31:13 <Stskeeps> hmm :P
Dec 07 15:31:18 <nikosapi> Stskeeps: many, many times :(
Dec 07 15:32:31 <nikosapi> I don't really want to lose all my data... When you do a full flash, what else happens besides the kernel, initfs and rootfs images getting copied to the device?
Dec 07 15:33:10 <Stskeeps> rootfs usually contains your data, it doesn't zap your internal MMC though
Dec 07 15:33:59 <nikosapi> right, so I don't think it even comes in to play this early in the boot process, right?
Dec 07 15:34:01 <mavhc> your my docs is gone
Dec 07 15:34:04 <Stskeeps> nikosapi: if it shows nokia logo and you can reflash kernel and initfs, it's probably not all hosed, just your rootfs
Dec 07 15:34:17 <nikosapi> oh..
Dec 07 15:34:34 <nikosapi> is there any way to debug this?
Dec 07 15:34:57 <Stskeeps> i sadly don't have a n810, else i could have given you an initfs that would allow you to pull out your files :P
Dec 07 15:35:21 <nikosapi> ooo, how does that work?
Dec 07 15:36:01 <Stskeeps> well if you had fanoush's bootmenu and installed usb telnetd, you could telnet in through usb and copy your files to mmc
Dec 07 15:36:15 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, initfs images don't differ according to model :P
Dec 07 15:36:21 <Meiz_n810> i have n810
Dec 07 15:36:35 <^Tux^> I think what Sts is sayin is.. buy him an n810 and he'll fix your shit
Dec 07 15:36:38 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: :P
Dec 07 15:36:39 <^Tux^> haha ;)
Dec 07 15:36:52 <Stskeeps> ^Tux^: there's a n810 at work i can play with if i wanted to
Dec 07 15:37:00 <Meiz_n810> ^Tux^ :p
Dec 07 15:37:13 <woglinde> hi
Dec 07 15:37:20 <qwerty12_N800> best i can give is an initfs that gets ur lock code :p
Dec 07 15:37:23 <qwerty12_N800> hi woglinde
Dec 07 15:38:01 <nikosapi> What if I booted it off of an SD card? Then could I access the data on the internal memory?
Dec 07 15:38:08 <qwerty12_N800> yep
Dec 07 15:38:18 <RST38h> Hehehe: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/07/brit_isps_censor_wikipedia/
Dec 07 15:38:25 <nikosapi> great, now I just have to figure out how to do that :P
Dec 07 15:38:26 <Stskeeps> nikosapi: but this requires a bootmenu which you dont have installed atm :P
Dec 07 15:38:46 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, you can set root device via flasher
Dec 07 15:38:52 <Stskeeps> true
Dec 07 15:38:58 <nikosapi> yup, --set-root-device
Dec 07 15:39:00 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: but kernel doesn't have ext2/ext3 in kernel.
Dec 07 15:39:01 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 07 15:39:01 <Stskeeps> so
Dec 07 15:39:21 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, linuxrc has code for insmodding
Dec 07 15:39:48 <Stskeeps> yeah, i know
Dec 07 15:39:50 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 07 15:39:51 <Stskeeps> true
Dec 07 15:39:55 <Stskeeps> i'm being an idiot
Dec 07 15:40:05 * Stskeeps goes do homework
Dec 07 15:40:05 <qwerty12_N800> nikosapi, mkdir /mnt/intfs ; mount -t jffs2 /dev/mtdblock4 /mnt/intfs
Dec 07 15:40:17 <nikosapi> omg omg omg, it booted!!!
Dec 07 15:40:19 <nikosapi> wtf
Dec 07 15:40:25 <nikosapi> 20 minutes later
Dec 07 15:41:03 <nikosapi> now what would cause a 20 minute boot delay?
Dec 07 15:41:19 <mavhc> did you install vista on it?
Dec 07 15:41:59 <Meiz_n810> lol
Dec 07 15:42:10 <nikosapi> hahah, yes but I'm using ReadyBoost(tm), I thought that should speed things up
Dec 07 15:42:24 <nikosapi> crap, now it's frozen :S
Dec 07 15:42:31 <mavhc> ssh?
Dec 07 15:42:32 <Stskeeps> nikosapi: you probably want to install fanosh bootmenu to be able to rescue your data in the future
Dec 07 15:42:37 <glass_> readyboost takes time to get into action..
Dec 07 15:42:56 <glass_> ah that was the other thing
Dec 07 15:42:58 <glass_> silly me
Dec 07 15:43:36 <nikosapi> ok, now it un-froze itself in a wave of menus popping up and notifications.
Dec 07 15:43:40 <nikosapi> time to back up
Dec 07 15:45:45 <nikosapi> does rd mode disable that watchdog timer which reboots the device if it's unresponsive for too long?
Dec 07 15:45:57 <glass_> i think so(not sure)
Dec 07 15:46:04 <glass_> hmm
Dec 07 15:46:10 <glass_> i should just shut up and go get some sleep
Dec 07 15:46:23 <Stskeeps> nop, thats another setting i think
Dec 07 15:46:46 <nikosapi> oh, I'll look into that
Dec 07 15:48:17 <nikosapi> --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset
Dec 07 15:48:42 <AStorm> doesn't work
Dec 07 15:48:44 <AStorm> :P
Dec 07 15:48:48 <AStorm> checked that
Dec 07 15:49:26 <AStorm> this one is for cpu hang
Dec 07 15:49:32 <AStorm> which is hard to make
Dec 07 15:49:49 <qwerty12_N800> no-lifeguard-reset stops dsmetool from rebooting the device if it couldn't start something or if something ran by it is killed
Dec 07 15:50:01 <AStorm> yup
Dec 07 15:50:14 <AStorm> and there's also omap watchdog
Dec 07 15:50:26 <AStorm> and a watchdog of the rtc chip
Dec 07 15:50:39 <AStorm> the last one is the one usually restarting things
Dec 07 16:01:38 <Meiz_n810> WTF?
Dec 07 16:01:58 <Meiz_n810> 20min ago jauntys universe was 4800kb
Dec 07 16:02:04 <Meiz_n810> now only 3600kb
Dec 07 16:02:07 <Stskeeps> heh
Dec 07 16:02:09 <Stskeeps> compressed?
Dec 07 16:02:23 <Meiz_n810> maybe .gz/.bz2
Dec 07 16:02:58 <Meiz_n810> it's compressed, but it might be .bz2 now
Dec 07 16:05:28 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: if the theme chooser don't work how can i change theme?
Dec 07 16:05:32 <Meiz_n810> in mer
Dec 07 16:09:23 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: yeah, that's the problem :P
Dec 07 16:09:29 <Stskeeps> edit start-hildon i think
Dec 07 16:09:32 <Stskeeps> (/usr/bin/start-hildon)
Dec 07 16:09:45 <Meiz_n810> ah
Dec 07 16:10:07 <Stskeeps> brb shop
Dec 07 16:10:11 <Meiz_n810> at least it works for matchbox...
Dec 07 16:35:05 <Ro9u3oR> im trying to get my n800 to take a charge from the usb.  can someone walk me thru it
Dec 07 16:35:17 <qwerty12> you don't.
Dec 07 16:36:26 <qwerty12> You could try a http://europe.nokia.com/A4317011 but that uses the charger socket
Dec 07 16:40:15 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: should i try to build some packages from extras or..?
Dec 07 16:40:56 <Stskeeps> yeah, if you'd like to
Dec 07 16:41:03 <Stskeeps> and talk about some of the build dependancies you run itno
Dec 07 16:41:10 <Stskeeps> that are missing
Dec 07 16:41:35 <Meiz_n810> powerlaunch needs libconic0-dev
Dec 07 16:41:49 <Stskeeps> yeah, i was working on that one
Dec 07 16:41:54 <Stskeeps> focusing on homework atm :P
Dec 07 16:41:59 <Meiz_n810> k
Dec 07 16:42:04 <Stskeeps> try some of the "normal" apps
Dec 07 16:42:59 <Meiz_n810> what about mplayer?
Dec 07 16:43:09 <Stskeeps> could try
Dec 07 16:43:14 <Stskeeps> is it a source package?
Dec 07 16:43:30 <qwerty12> mplayer source is in extras
Dec 07 16:44:13 <Stskeeps>  k
Dec 07 16:45:12 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: it possibly works like crap though performance wise, but we should give it a try
Dec 07 16:47:06 <ssvb> Stskeeps: :)
Dec 07 16:47:12 <Stskeeps> mm?
Dec 07 16:47:15 <ssvb> what makes you think so?
Dec 07 16:47:39 <Stskeeps> ssvb: we're having fb update mode auto and a new xorg omapfb driver..
Dec 07 16:47:45 <Stskeeps> nothing against mplayer, i'm sure it's fine
Dec 07 16:48:17 <ssvb> fb update mode auto is probably very slow
Dec 07 16:48:23 <Stskeeps> .. as i just said
Dec 07 16:48:48 <ssvb> i see, does new xorg omapfb driver not support manual updates?
Dec 07 16:48:49 <Stskeeps> omapfb doesn't do manual updates just yet, at least as far as i could see when i ran it
Dec 07 16:49:42 <ssvb> yes, and it has quite nonoptimized, xv which is cpu hungry
Dec 07 16:50:41 <Stskeeps> but for our purposes right now it's better than xomap :P
Dec 07 16:50:58 <ssvb> what are your purposes?
Dec 07 16:52:10 <Stskeeps> ssvb: the whole maemo-reconstructed proof of concept distribution, Mer
Dec 07 16:52:33 <Stskeeps> (i would love a xorg omap with manual updates.)
Dec 07 16:52:35 <ssvb> I mean how does it affect xomap vs xorg omapfb issue?
Dec 07 16:52:45 <ssvb> both are fully open source
Dec 07 16:52:58 <ssvb> xomap is only based on older version of xorg
Dec 07 16:53:10 <Stskeeps> ssvb: xomap doesn't really compile that well together with newer xorg header
Dec 07 16:53:10 <Stskeeps> s
Dec 07 16:53:37 <Stskeeps> in any case, it works for us atm :P
Dec 07 16:54:11 <Stskeeps> looking forward to it improving, looks like there's quite a lot of activity on it
Dec 07 16:54:50 <ssvb> i hope they will not drop it halfway :)
Dec 07 16:55:11 <Stskeeps> else nokia would obviously need something for their devices as they're dropping xomap too
Dec 07 16:55:43 <ssvb> i would really like to see all the good stuff from xomap ported to the recent upstream xorg
Dec 07 16:58:35 <Stskeeps> ssvb: so you did the mplayer bits for 770/n8x0 since you woke up so abruptly by anyone claiming it would be slow? ;)
Dec 07 17:01:39 <ssvb> yes, more or less
Dec 07 17:01:54 <ssvb> but I dropped its support more than half a year ago
Dec 07 17:02:16 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Dec 07 17:02:27 <ssvb> I just though that somebody would want to take over its maintainance :)
Dec 07 17:02:43 <Stskeeps> well it works quite well, i guess :P
Dec 07 17:03:02 <ssvb> it needs to be upgraded to the latest upstream release
Dec 07 17:03:26 <Meiz_n810> What is the command for automatical build-depends install?
Dec 07 17:03:43 <ssvb> i also tried pushing ARM performance patches upstream, but only roughly half of them reached it yet
Dec 07 17:03:46 <qwerty12> Meiz_n810, apt-get build-dep <package you want builddeps for>
Dec 07 17:03:49 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: for extras packages i dont really think there is one.. dpkg-buildpackage will show you whic
Dec 07 17:03:54 <Meiz_n810> ok
Dec 07 17:03:56 <Stskeeps> you're missing
Dec 07 17:04:21 <ShadowJK> ssvb, anyone objected to the arm patches?
Dec 07 17:04:31 <ShadowJK> I guess they'd mostly been libswscale or libavcodec stuff
Dec 07 17:05:23 <ssvb> ShadowJK: it's a long story
Dec 07 17:07:39 <ShadowJK> when you say "nonoptimized xv", I sure hope it isn't doing colourspace transform in CPU or something silly like that
Dec 07 17:08:02 <Meiz_n810> Mediabox built with no problem
Dec 07 17:08:19 <Stskeeps> sounds good, does it run? (no sound probably)
Dec 07 17:08:31 <Meiz_n810> sec
Dec 07 17:09:51 <Meiz_n810> mytube built too :)
Dec 07 17:12:17 <Stskeeps> you building them on tablet i assume?
Dec 07 17:12:25 <Meiz_n810> yes
Dec 07 17:12:36 <Meiz_n810> mediabox wont install :(
Dec 07 17:13:10 <Stskeeps> what errors?
Dec 07 17:13:35 <Meiz_n810> wait
Dec 07 17:14:07 <^Tux^> "Aiee Penguin on the SCSI-bus"
Dec 07 17:14:08 <^Tux^> ?
Dec 07 17:14:08 <^Tux^> :P
Dec 07 17:24:25 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: mediabox: Dependency is not satisfiable: python2.5-runtime
Dec 07 17:24:31 <Stskeeps> hmm.
Dec 07 17:24:54 <Stskeeps> maemoism
Dec 07 17:25:06 <Stskeeps> edit debian/control, depend on python2.5
Dec 07 17:25:10 <Meiz_n810> ok
Dec 07 17:26:36 <Meiz_n810> I also built tablet-hw-n8x0-nonfree from deblet repo :P
Dec 07 17:26:41 <Stskeeps> hehe :P
Dec 07 17:26:46 <Meiz_n810> i wanna see if wifi works
Dec 07 17:26:46 <Stskeeps> no clue if they work
Dec 07 17:26:57 <Meiz_n810> why not?
Dec 07 17:26:58 <Stskeeps> need cx3110x too
Dec 07 17:27:08 <Meiz_n810> umac module?
Dec 07 17:27:17 <Stskeeps> is in initfs
Dec 07 17:28:05 <Meiz_n810> make_repo built and installed cx3110x-umac automatically :)
Dec 07 17:28:25 <Meiz_n810> well, it did not install, but build
Dec 07 17:28:30 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 07 17:29:03 <Stskeeps> wifi probably works with /etc/network/interfaces.
Dec 07 17:29:20 <Meiz_n810> nm-applet?
Dec 07 17:29:31 <Meiz_n810> i opened my wifi for android...
Dec 07 17:29:49 <Stskeeps> or nm-applet could work too
Dec 07 17:29:49 <Meiz_n810> should work
Dec 07 17:29:51 <Stskeeps> (start-hildon)
Dec 07 17:43:34 <pupnik_> these toys that don't quite get released before christmas drive me nuts
Dec 07 17:43:38 <pupnik_> N810, Pandora
Dec 07 17:43:56 <Meiz_n810> n810?
Dec 07 17:44:17 <pupnik_> well - which don't ship
Dec 07 17:44:23 <Meiz_n810> k
Dec 07 17:46:08 * Stskeeps will look forward to having his tablet when going home for xmas. :P
Dec 07 17:46:17 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: helped?
Dec 07 17:46:37 <Meiz_n810> mediabox? yes
Dec 07 17:46:43 <Stskeeps> it worked?
Dec 07 17:46:51 <Meiz_n810> but mplayer is not available yet
Dec 07 17:46:55 <Stskeeps> yeah, obviously
Dec 07 17:47:01 <zakkm> does about:config work on microb?
Dec 07 17:47:04 <Stskeeps> did you get th interface?
Dec 07 17:47:21 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: what?
Dec 07 17:47:33 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: mediabox, did the interface come up? :P
Dec 07 17:47:45 <Meiz_n810> It depends on mplayer
Dec 07 17:47:47 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 07 17:47:53 <Stskeeps> fair enough
Dec 07 17:48:12 <Meiz_n810> maybe i'll force it and try anyway :)
Dec 07 17:48:27 <Stskeeps> also a possibiliy
Dec 07 17:48:28 <Meiz_n810> moblin-media would be cool
Dec 07 17:48:45 <Meiz_n810> it conflicts with maemos packages :(
Dec 07 17:49:15 <Stskeeps> mm
Dec 07 17:49:38 <zakkm> force it :P
Dec 07 17:49:46 <Meiz_n810> moblin-media?
Dec 07 17:49:51 <zakkm> yeah
Dec 07 17:49:55 <Meiz_n810> i don't think so :P
Dec 07 17:50:03 <zakkm> hey moblin
Dec 07 17:50:04 <zakkm> i heard of that
Dec 07 17:50:07 <zakkm> it works on the nokia?
Dec 07 17:50:41 <Meiz_n810> ubuntu-MID should work now (including moblin pankages)
Dec 07 17:51:02 <Stskeeps> pancakes?
Dec 07 17:51:03 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 07 17:51:04 <Meiz_n810> *packages
Dec 07 17:51:05 <zakkm> whats the worse that can happen if you force a package?
Dec 07 17:51:21 <Stskeeps> zakkm: apt stops working.. :P
Dec 07 17:51:27 <Meiz_n810> system will not boot
Dec 07 17:51:28 <zakkm> its called make a backup first
Dec 07 17:51:31 <zakkm> what if it does work?
Dec 07 17:51:33 <tulkastaldo> the world will be destroyed in a ball of hellfire
Dec 07 17:51:58 <zakkm> it might conflict withlike one line of coding
Dec 07 17:52:13 <Meiz_n810> last summer, i added debian repos to chinook and my tablet did not boot after i installed something
Dec 07 17:52:18 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 07 17:52:24 <Meiz_n810> <--- idiot
Dec 07 17:52:29 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: but yeah, i'd like to see if mediabox interface works, could be interesting
Dec 07 17:52:33 <zakkm> thats debian though ;p
Dec 07 17:52:50 <zakkm> does moblin work on nokia?
Dec 07 17:53:09 <Stskeeps> if you want to beat your head against the wall, it probably does
Dec 07 17:53:14 <Stskeeps> ubuntu by itself runs so
Dec 07 17:53:18 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: mediabox is designed for 800x480 display, when screen rotated 90 half of it is out of the screen
Dec 07 17:53:20 <zakkm> huge price to pay
Dec 07 17:53:33 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: your screen is rotated? :P
Dec 07 17:53:40 <Meiz_n810> not right now
Dec 07 17:53:45 <Stskeeps> okay..
Dec 07 17:53:54 <Stskeeps> so what was the relevance? :P
Dec 07 17:53:57 <Meiz_n810> but i have tried mediabox rotated
Dec 07 17:54:00 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 07 17:54:47 <Meiz_n810> i was thinking about x86 with 1200x800 (whatever) running mediabox :P
Dec 07 17:54:59 <Stskeeps> zakkm: i'm not personally pursuing pure ubuntu on the tablets, as it'll run into same issues as deblet. it's trivial to take the mer imager and make a ubuntu booting from that though.
Dec 07 17:55:31 <Meiz_n810> zakkm: you CAN use moblin software, just install ubuntu
Dec 07 17:55:36 <zakkm> lol
Dec 07 17:55:37 <zakkm> ew no
Dec 07 17:55:39 <zakkm> im a mac user
Dec 07 17:55:55 <zakkm> my linux days are over, as far as desktops are concerned
Dec 07 17:55:57 <Meiz_n810> i mean install ubuntu to your n8x0
Dec 07 17:56:11 <zakkm> oo
Dec 07 17:56:16 <zakkm> hate ubuntu
Dec 07 17:56:21 <zakkm> to me it was either gentoo or arch
Dec 07 17:56:30 <zakkm> never did like ubuntu or debian for that matter
Dec 07 17:56:36 <Meiz_n810> It's the only way to use moblin for now :P
Dec 07 17:56:51 <zakkm> i wanna use my n800 more like idk
Dec 07 17:57:03 <zakkm> maemo is too slow for what i want it for i guess
Dec 07 17:57:07 <zakkm> so i thought alternatives.. maybe
Dec 07 17:57:22 <zakkm> i love maemo, i just wish it was faster lol
Dec 07 17:57:54 <Stskeeps> did you ever manage to get deblet going? :P
Dec 07 17:57:58 <zakkm> and please no, use links not microb.. :P
Dec 07 17:58:04 <x29a> yay, gentoo
Dec 07 17:58:07 <zakkm> no, i chose gtk remember
Dec 07 17:58:09 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 07 17:58:11 <zakkm> and i couldnt type, for a user so it failed
Dec 07 17:58:17 <zakkm> i decided not to do it again
Dec 07 17:58:18 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: is h-i-m working ?
Dec 07 17:58:22 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: not yet
Dec 07 17:58:27 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: well. ok, i didn't test
Dec 07 17:58:35 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: does Midori install?
Dec 07 17:58:42 <zakkm> ;o
Dec 07 17:58:44 <Stskeeps> (im not even sure its built yet)
Dec 07 17:58:46 <zakkm> midori on nokia?
Dec 07 17:58:52 <Stskeeps> yeah, i had midori in deblet
Dec 07 17:58:55 <Stskeeps> it was fucking speedy
Dec 07 17:58:57 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: midori is in deblet repo?
Dec 07 17:59:10 <Meiz_n810> i have used it in ubuntu
Dec 07 17:59:11 <zakkm> used on gentoo, desktop
Dec 07 17:59:13 <Stskeeps> no, maybe it is in ubuntu repo
Dec 07 17:59:16 <zakkm> is it good on nokia? vs microb?
Dec 07 17:59:19 <Stskeeps> yeah
Dec 07 17:59:28 <zakkm> ;o
Dec 07 17:59:30 <Stskeeps> microb could go home and shoot itself, so fast it was
Dec 07 17:59:31 <zakkm> why dont they switch then
Dec 07 17:59:42 <Stskeeps> more plugins for microb, dunno
Dec 07 17:59:48 <zakkm> what plugins lol
Dec 07 17:59:57 <zakkm> adblock?
Dec 07 17:59:59 <zakkm> spellchecker?
Dec 07 18:00:07 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: i have used midori in jaunty, but it is not available anymore if it never was...
Dec 07 18:00:23 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 07 18:00:42 <Stskeeps> i guess we'll have Tear as browser possibly
Dec 07 18:00:47 <Stskeeps> uses webkit too
Dec 07 18:01:07 <Meiz_n810> teasr sucks
Dec 07 18:01:13 <Meiz_n810> on maemo
Dec 07 18:01:18 <Stskeeps> mm how come?
Dec 07 18:01:38 <Meiz_n810> it is worse than IE7
Dec 07 18:01:51 <Stskeeps> .. not a reason, why?
Dec 07 18:01:55 <Meiz_n810> itT looks like a bunch of crap
Dec 07 18:02:12 <Stskeeps> it always does that
Dec 07 18:02:12 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 07 18:02:21 <Meiz_n810> well it is usable somehow
Dec 07 18:02:28 <Meiz_n810> i'll test h-i-m in a minute
Dec 07 18:02:54 <Stskeeps> you might need some stuff i told qole on a post somewhere though
Dec 07 18:04:16 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: Midori is available in deblet repo :P
Dec 07 18:05:22 * Meiz_n810 is installing it
Dec 07 18:06:58 <zakkm> should be in maemo :D
Dec 07 18:07:00 <Stskeeps> lets see if it runs :P
Dec 07 18:07:21 <Meiz_n810> it runs
Dec 07 18:07:24 <Stskeeps> awoo
Dec 07 18:07:27 <Meiz_n810> i have tried
Dec 07 18:07:38 <Stskeeps> scrshot :P
Dec 07 18:07:51 <Meiz_n810> wait
Dec 07 18:08:00 <Meiz_n810> *installng*
Dec 07 18:08:11 <Stskeeps> oh, i thought you meant it ran on mer :P
Dec 07 18:08:31 <Meiz_n810> i'll try it in a minute
Dec 07 18:11:35 * Meiz_n810 boots to Mer
Dec 07 18:17:53 <lardman|away> ~curse 100 fold the person who pretty much blocked my garage
Dec 07 18:17:54 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, 100 fold the person who pretty much blocked my garage !
Dec 07 18:18:10 <lardman|away> hmm, that hasn't made me feel much better
Dec 07 18:18:23 <RST38h> lardman: that is when you really need a Huge Deadly Laser
Dec 07 18:18:27 <qwerty12> ~burn 100 fold the person who pretty much blocked lardman's garage
Dec 07 18:18:28 * infobot pours gasoline all over 100 fold the person who pretty much blocked lardman's garage, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze
Dec 07 18:18:32 <lardman> nice :)
Dec 07 18:18:34 <qwerty12> lardman, any better :)
Dec 07 18:18:38 <lardman> now we're talking :)
Dec 07 18:18:45 <qwerty12> hehe :D
Dec 07 18:18:48 <lardman> thanks
Dec 07 18:18:57 <lardman> RST38h: yes laser would help the burning :)
Dec 07 18:21:17 <RST38h> Gentlemen (and an ocassional lady in disguise), fMSX 3.5.4 is in Extras for your consumption now.
Dec 07 18:30:12 <t_s_o> someones being productive
Dec 07 18:30:44 <disco_stu> ~kde
Dec 07 18:30:45 <infobot> The next major revision of KDE -- KDE 4.0 -- will be released when it's ready, not before. We don't know when that will be, despite the dot article. It will most likely be in 2007 or 2008, but it could be later.
Dec 07 18:31:26 <t_s_o> oO
Dec 07 18:42:44 <gnuton> what´s the status of the GBA emulator in maemo?
Dec 07 18:43:50 <qwerty12_N800> gnuton, RST38h 's one, VGBA, is very good
Dec 07 18:44:39 <gnuton> qwerty12_N800: Ok. I'll try to install it.
Dec 07 18:45:12 <RST38h> gnuton: it works.
Dec 07 18:48:46 <gnuton> RST38h: okay..
Dec 07 18:50:41 <Meiz_n810> SCRSHOTS!!!!
Dec 07 18:50:43 <Meiz_n810> http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer#
Dec 07 18:51:12 <Meiz_n810> Midori works!
Dec 07 18:51:41 <disco_stu> someone knows that if clonning os to sd makes rotation stop working ?
Dec 07 18:52:00 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: woo :)
Dec 07 18:52:16 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: bt and nm-applet still not work
Dec 07 18:52:22 <Stskeeps> yeah, it takes a bit of bashing
Dec 07 18:52:31 <Meiz_n810> But it is nice anyway
Dec 07 18:52:37 <Stskeeps> good great though, we're moving along :)
Dec 07 18:52:45 <Stskeeps> what wallpaper is it on the last one?
Dec 07 18:52:52 <solca> hi!
Dec 07 18:52:58 <Stskeeps> lo solca
Dec 07 18:53:07 <qwerty12_N800> hey solca
Dec 07 18:53:12 <Meiz_n810> when nm-applet work, i will chat from Mer
Dec 07 18:53:21 <Meiz_n810> solca: hi!
Dec 07 18:53:30 <solca> im getting off bed and its 12:53 here lol ;)
Dec 07 18:53:37 <Meiz_n810> :)
Dec 07 18:53:49 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: impressive work
Dec 07 18:54:02 <Meiz_n810> solca: Stskeeps can tell you why wlan and bt don't work in android
Dec 07 18:54:09 <Stskeeps> solca: remembered the firmware files?
Dec 07 18:54:20 <solca> it works for me
Dec 07 18:54:26 <Meiz_n810> works?
Dec 07 18:54:33 <Meiz_n810> it works now!???
Dec 07 18:54:38 <solca> since the beginning
Dec 07 18:54:41 <Stskeeps> solca: but the tar.gz people have has the 3826.arm files or? :P
Dec 07 18:54:48 <Stskeeps> that the stlc45xx driver loads :P
Dec 07 18:54:49 <solca> I dont know why it doesnt work for you though
Dec 07 18:55:12 <solca> Stskeeps: no that are in the /nit/initfs/usr/lib/hotplug/firmware
Dec 07 18:55:18 <Meiz_n810> solca: netcfg wlan0 up says no such file or directory
Dec 07 18:55:20 <solca> hmm
Dec 07 18:55:25 <solca> that tells me something
Dec 07 18:55:31 <Meiz_n810> what am i missing
Dec 07 18:55:32 <Stskeeps> solca: well then stlc45xx needs somewhere to load from from ..
Dec 07 18:55:40 <Stskeeps> .. probably /lib/firmware or something
Dec 07 18:55:48 <Stskeeps> a symlink to the firmware files in initfs
Dec 07 18:55:49 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 07 18:55:59 <solca> Meiz_n810: can you link that dir to /system/etc/firmware in nitdroid?
Dec 07 18:56:04 <solca> Stskeeps: exactly
Dec 07 18:56:08 <solca> that could be the problem
Dec 07 18:56:11 <solca> for Meiz_n810
Dec 07 18:56:14 <Meiz_n810> okay
Dec 07 18:56:27 <solca> as I have a "devel" userspace that I think takes care of that
Dec 07 18:56:31 <Stskeeps> kernel grabs firmware from there? strange :P
Dec 07 18:56:49 <solca> Stskeeps: kernel not, but androids "hotplug" replacement
Dec 07 18:56:55 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 07 18:57:04 <Meiz_n810> solca: gimme that "devel" userspace! =P
Dec 07 18:57:49 <Meiz_n810> ok, so how can i make the wlan work?
Dec 07 18:57:52 <solca> Meiz_n810: its nearly 200MB as it packs nitdroid plus my openwrt experiments
Dec 07 18:58:08 <disco_stu> ~deblet
Dec 07 18:58:09 <infobot> [deblet] http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet
Dec 07 18:58:20 <solca> Meiz_n810: netcfg wlan0 up
Dec 07 18:58:34 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: copy 3826.arm from /mnt/initfs onto /system/etc/firmware i think
Dec 07 18:58:44 <Stskeeps>  (/mnt/initfs/usr/lib/hotplug/firmware)
Dec 07 18:58:44 <Meiz_n810> ok
Dec 07 18:58:48 <solca> Stskeeps: thx for pointing about the firmware files, didnt think about
Dec 07 18:59:25 <solca> Stskeeps: Meiz_n810: I think a symlink is better than copy
Dec 07 18:59:51 <solca> ln -s /nit/initfs/usr/lib/hotplug/firmware /system/etc/firmware
Dec 07 18:59:54 <Meiz_n810> symlink must be created every boot?
Dec 07 19:00:06 <solca> Meiz_n810: just the first time
Dec 07 19:00:06 <Meiz_n810> i'll try copying first
Dec 07 19:00:11 <Meiz_n810> ah
Dec 07 19:00:17 <Meiz_n810> ok
Dec 07 19:00:21 <Stskeeps> solca: /* you mean
Dec 07 19:00:21 <solca> Meiz_n810: I'll modify the userspace to take care about that
Dec 07 19:00:33 <Meiz_n810> great
Dec 07 19:00:46 <solca> Stskeeps: nope
Dec 07 19:01:09 <Stskeeps> no such folder as /system/etc/firmware or?
Dec 07 19:01:29 <Meiz_n810> solca: have you compiled new kekrnels :P
Dec 07 19:01:31 <Meiz_n810> ?
Dec 07 19:01:35 <Meiz_n810> *kernels
Dec 07 19:02:01 <solca> Stskeeps: /system/etc/firmware must be a folder or a symlink to a folder
Dec 07 19:02:20 <solca> Meiz_n810: yes I have a new ones with 2.6.18-rc7-omap
Dec 07 19:02:42 <Meiz_n810> 2.6.28 you mean?
Dec 07 19:02:46 <solca> Meiz_n810: but are not completely finished as some patches dont aplly cleanly
Dec 07 19:02:49 <Meiz_n810> can you upload?
Dec 07 19:02:52 <Meiz_n810> ok
Dec 07 19:02:58 <solca> Meiz_n810: yes 2.6.28 sorry
Dec 07 19:03:09 <Meiz_n810> what about nitchooser?
Dec 07 19:03:25 <solca> Meiz_n810: nitchooser will rock!!
Dec 07 19:03:30 <solca> hopefully
Dec 07 19:03:31 <Meiz_n810> :)
Dec 07 19:03:47 <solca> Meiz_n810: do you copy or make the symlink?
Dec 07 19:04:11 <Meiz_n810> dunno
Dec 07 19:04:20 <Meiz_n810> i try first symlink
Dec 07 19:04:57 <solca> Stskeeps: latest stlc45xx.ko doesnt need stlc45xx-cal tool anymore
Dec 07 19:05:02 <Stskeeps> solca: yeah, i saw
Dec 07 19:05:10 <Stskeeps> firmware is a different thing though
Dec 07 19:05:41 <solca> Stskeeps: but for the selector is good news as firmware are already in the initfs
Dec 07 19:05:46 * Meiz_n810 boots to android...
Dec 07 19:05:58 <solca> Stskeeps: so the selector can use wifi :)
Dec 07 19:06:33 <Stskeeps> solca: yeah
Dec 07 19:06:57 <solca> Stskeeps: I was thinking about the selector downloads some instructions from known distro sites
Dec 07 19:07:06 <solca> and install appropriately
Dec 07 19:07:10 <solca> or upgrade
Dec 07 19:07:13 <Stskeeps> hehe, yeah, but then we need a supplicant and everything
Dec 07 19:07:20 <Stskeeps> it's better with a .item system i guess
Dec 07 19:07:31 <Stskeeps> what you're searching for is a combination of selector and fanoush bootmenu probably
Dec 07 19:07:37 <Meizirkki> i get stuck on penguin screen :(
Dec 07 19:07:44 <Meizirkki> the ext sd!
Dec 07 19:07:48 <Meizirkki> :P
Dec 07 19:08:08 <solca> Meiz_n810: :P
Dec 07 19:08:16 <Meizirkki> i always forget
Dec 07 19:08:31 <solca> Meizirkki: something is fishy about your sd I presume
Dec 07 19:08:41 <Meizirkki> i think so
Dec 07 19:08:42 <solca> Meizirkki: or my kernel sucks
Dec 07 19:08:58 <Meizirkki> my sd is just shitty
Dec 07 19:09:10 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: ping ?
Dec 07 19:10:11 <Meizirkki> solca: symlink did not work :(
Dec 07 19:10:15 <Meizirkki> i'll copy
Dec 07 19:10:46 <solca> Meizirkki: wait!
Dec 07 19:10:57 <Meizirkki> ok
Dec 07 19:10:58 <solca> Meizirkki: can you get a shell?
Dec 07 19:11:02 <Meizirkki> yes
Dec 07 19:11:09 <solca> netcfg
Dec 07 19:11:14 <Meizirkki> too late
Dec 07 19:11:26 <Meizirkki> i'll reboot to android
Dec 07 19:11:29 <Meizirkki> sec
Dec 07 19:12:31 <solca> Meizirkki: in other news I finally fixed the keymaps
Dec 07 19:12:46 <Meizirkki> great
Dec 07 19:13:02 <solca> even the volume keys works
Dec 07 19:13:05 <Meizirkki> are you gonna upload new rootfs soon?
Dec 07 19:13:33 <solca> Meizirkki: yes, but I want to fix the wifi thing with you and modify the rootfs
Dec 07 19:13:35 <Meizirkki> netcfg wlan0 up worked!
Dec 07 19:13:53 <solca> Meizirkki: ok, now dmesg and report the last lines
Dec 07 19:13:53 <jagernot> hello mei
Dec 07 19:14:01 <Meizirkki> hi!
Dec 07 19:14:27 <jagernot> would u like to test boxar new version again?
Dec 07 19:14:33 <solca> Stskeeps was right, it was not loading the firmware files
Dec 07 19:14:39 <Meizirkki> solca: it looks like netcfg wlan0 up rebooted my tablet
Dec 07 19:15:03 <solca> Meizirkki: unlikely, maybe is the other bug in action
Dec 07 19:15:13 <jagernot> http://www.poojyum.com/boxar/ - a musical instrument for maemo
Dec 07 19:15:29 <Meizirkki> jagernot: i am trying android now, but i will download latest boxar soon :)
Dec 07 19:16:01 <jagernot> mei: ah you are so fickle :)
Dec 07 19:16:52 <Stskeeps> jagernot: hehe, playing with it now
Dec 07 19:16:55 <jagernot> if anybody else can try boxar that will be nice.
Dec 07 19:17:13 <Stskeeps> jagernot: you should try lcuk's algorithm for semi-multitouch
Dec 07 19:17:30 <Meizirkki> solca: http://pastebin.com/m12d6633d
Dec 07 19:17:36 <Meizirkki> firmware loaded
Dec 07 19:17:58 <jagernot> actually its can already do multi touch (ok sort of) with gtk/gdk
Dec 07 19:18:13 <solca> Meizirkki: yes I see, now fire the wifi from settings
Dec 07 19:18:23 <solca> but run logcat in the shell
Dec 07 19:18:25 <Meizirkki> WOHOO!
Dec 07 19:18:30 <Meizirkki> seems to work
Dec 07 19:18:36 <Stskeeps> jagernot: think if my gf was home i would drive her nuts currently with this..
Dec 07 19:18:59 <jagernot> Sts: is that a good or a bad thing?!
Dec 07 19:19:07 <Stskeeps> good for me, bad for her :>
Dec 07 19:19:34 <Stskeeps> jagernot: you should get some experimental band to play with this..
Dec 07 19:19:46 <jagernot> why is it bad for her u think? she wont like the sound?
Dec 07 19:20:03 <Stskeeps> hehe, yeah, i'm slightly differently audio-stimulated than she is :)
Dec 07 19:20:06 <Stskeeps> it's quite interesting though
Dec 07 19:20:10 <jagernot> yeah im already playing with what we call the 'cane toad orchestra'
Dec 07 19:20:20 <Meizirkki> solca: i got permission denied when i netcfg wlan0 up
Dec 07 19:20:36 <jagernot> no record deal yet ;)
Dec 07 19:20:44 <solca> Meizirkki: what logcat say
Dec 07 19:20:48 <Meizirkki> it can be done only once per reboot
Dec 07 19:20:53 <Meizirkki> wait a bit
Dec 07 19:21:17 <Stskeeps> jagernot: something about catching pieces of it and repeating could be interesting
Dec 07 19:21:59 <jagernot> you mean play something and loop?
Dec 07 19:22:03 <Stskeeps> yeah
Dec 07 19:22:28 <jagernot> ok havent added a recording feature yet
Dec 07 19:22:33 <jagernot> but its not hard to do
Dec 07 19:22:41 <Stskeeps> then again multiple tablets could do the trick.. it is an instrument afteral
Dec 07 19:22:42 <Stskeeps> l
Dec 07 19:23:03 <jagernot> have you tried throbbing the notes?
Dec 07 19:23:05 <Meizirkki> solca: logcat is full of Nos uch file or directory
Dec 07 19:23:11 <Stskeeps> yeah, playing with that right now
Dec 07 19:23:31 <solca> Meizirkki: what does it said before "no such file..."
Dec 07 19:23:34 <solca> ?
Dec 07 19:23:44 <jagernot> sounds better with good headphones or good loudspeakers as the tablet speakers are not good for bass.
Dec 07 19:23:59 <jagernot> throbbing sounds better with good headphones.
Dec 07 19:24:02 <Stskeeps> jagernot: must admit, quite good and creative use of tablet i've seen so far
Dec 07 19:24:09 <Meizirkki> solca: Received wifi state changed from Unknown to Enabling
Dec 07 19:24:16 <gnuton> hey RST38h it works fine! :D
Dec 07 19:24:26 <Meizirkki> now it is enabled
Dec 07 19:24:33 <solca> Meizirkki: can you pastebin the last part?
Dec 07 19:24:41 <gnuton> RST38h: but unfortunately I've very slow framerate :(
Dec 07 19:24:43 <Stskeeps> gnuton: if you haven't tried boxar (if you like experimental stuff like liqbase, you should definately try this one)
Dec 07 19:24:46 <solca> Meizirkki: does it works now?
Dec 07 19:24:50 <Meizirkki> mo
Dec 07 19:24:52 <Meizirkki> no
Dec 07 19:24:59 <jagernot> Sts: increase the decay time and throb for interesting fx
Dec 07 19:24:59 <Meizirkki> still no such file or directiory
Dec 07 19:25:14 <gnuton> Stskeeps: I never tried it!
Dec 07 19:25:18 <jagernot> Sts: and/or lower the throbbing speed
Dec 07 19:25:26 <Meizirkki> solca: and netcfg gives me permission denied
Dec 07 19:25:34 <Meizirkki> solca: it rebooted
Dec 07 19:25:37 <gnuton> I'll try... but Now I'm too happy to have the pokemon on my N810! :D
Dec 07 19:25:53 <solca> Meizirkki: ok, so this time try this:
Dec 07 19:25:56 <gnuton> So I know how spend my time in metro! :P
Dec 07 19:26:10 <solca> get in with a shell, netcfg wlan0 up, logcat
Dec 07 19:26:18 <solca> then enable wifi in the settings
Dec 07 19:26:18 <Meizirkki> ok
Dec 07 19:26:21 <Meizirkki> ok
Dec 07 19:26:27 <Meizirkki> WTF?
Dec 07 19:26:40 <Meizirkki> it's almost reboot loop here
Dec 07 19:28:15 <solca> Meizirkki: battery is empty?
Dec 07 19:28:25 <Meizirkki> no
Dec 07 19:28:32 <gnuton> emulator freezed :(
Dec 07 19:28:34 <Meizirkki> charger is in
Dec 07 19:28:38 <solca> ok
Dec 07 19:28:39 <Meizirkki> might be that
Dec 07 19:29:18 <Stskeeps> jagernot: this so has to be tried with LSD involved..
Dec 07 19:29:22 <Stskeeps> (kidding)
Dec 07 19:29:59 <jagernot> :D
Dec 07 19:30:20 <jagernot> turn on the sway to get a 80s synth roving sound
Dec 07 19:30:47 <Meizirkki> solca: wlan0 is up and settings says wireless is on, but it is still not working
Dec 07 19:30:57 <^Tux^> operator error..
Dec 07 19:30:59 <solca> Meizirkki: logcat!
Dec 07 19:30:59 <Meizirkki> logcat cries: no such file or directory
Dec 07 19:31:17 <Meizirkki> and it rebooted
Dec 07 19:31:26 <solca> Meizirkki: :(
Dec 07 19:31:27 <Meizirkki> i have to go to slee now
Dec 07 19:31:35 <Meizirkki> sleep
Dec 07 19:31:38 <solca> Meizirkki: come on, is early!!
Dec 07 19:31:48 <jagernot> Stskeeps: turn off throbbing, increase note decay to about 5 secs, turn on Sway and play slowly
Dec 07 19:32:09 <jagernot> Stskeeps: you can also change any parameter while the sound is playing for realtime fx.
Dec 07 19:32:21 <Stskeeps> jagernot: i'm on a n800 btw so , . aren't that easy to do :P
Dec 07 19:32:48 <jagernot> Sts: i think boxar works better on n800 than n810..i hate opening the keyboard out
Dec 07 19:32:56 <jagernot> i have a n810 so.. :(
Dec 07 19:33:21 <Stskeeps> got a youtube video of using boxar yet?
Dec 07 19:33:36 <jagernot> not yet..maybe soon.
Dec 07 19:33:51 <solca> Meizirkki: btw nice video! thx, now we need a NITdroid video with wifi working
Dec 07 19:34:00 <qwerty12_N800> jagernot, thought about hildonizing the menu? it would save you from having to toggle it
Dec 07 19:34:02 <jagernot> is a youtube video useful?
Dec 07 19:34:03 <Stskeeps> oh, there's one
Dec 07 19:34:23 <Meizirkki> solca: can you upload your new rootfs and kernel?
Dec 07 19:34:24 <jagernot> how do u hildonize it?
Dec 07 19:35:00 <Stskeeps> jagernot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60fqnKS2ymU
Dec 07 19:35:14 <Meizirkki> solca: it looks like i wont get it working with these :(
Dec 07 19:35:26 <solca> Meizirkki: I'm exactly compiling a new rootfs, but upload last 10min (my connection sucks)
Dec 07 19:35:59 <Meizirkki> solca: it will take at least 20 min here to download, my connection sucks too
Dec 07 19:36:15 <solca> Meizirkki: ohh so minimum 30min
Dec 07 19:36:16 <jagernot> jeez i didnt post this video :)
Dec 07 19:36:50 <solca> Meizirkki: I'll upload it and change its version number in the nitdroid web page
Dec 07 19:36:56 <qwerty12_N800> jagernot, i'm not the best on this subject (i only learnt how, kind of,  recently) but : http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.1/libhildon-2.0.4/HildonWindow.html#hildon-window-set-main-menu
Dec 07 19:37:03 <Meiz_n810> solca:ok
Dec 07 19:37:30 <solca> so you can check if there are new versions, btw I think we are close
Dec 07 19:38:10 <Meiz_n810> ok
Dec 07 19:38:43 <solca> Meiz_n810: so you gonna wait or go to bed?
Dec 07 19:38:51 <Meiz_n810> both
Dec 07 19:39:04 <Meiz_n810> i can flash firmware on tablet...
Dec 07 19:40:12 <Meiz_n810> solca: android seems to crash easier when usb-cable is plugged...
Dec 07 19:41:35 <solca> Meiz_n810: really? will try to change some usb parameters in the kernel config, maybe that solves something
Dec 07 19:41:46 <solca> Meiz_n810: and how about the fading crash
Dec 07 19:41:56 <solca> I have not had any
Dec 07 19:42:02 <Meiz_n810> jagernot: can you give me the download link for boxar
Dec 07 19:42:02 <solca> just reboots
Dec 07 19:42:06 <Stskeeps> isn't it a lifeguard thing or something?
Dec 07 19:42:29 <Meiz_n810> solca: it faded then rebooted while i was messing with netcfg
Dec 07 19:42:56 <solca> Stskeeps: I'm pretty sure I kickstart the proprietary stuff (nitboot) so watchdogs are happy
Dec 07 19:43:07 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 07 19:43:17 <solca> Stskeeps: but I don't really know well what lifeguard means
Dec 07 19:43:25 <Stskeeps> watchdog i guess
Dec 07 19:43:51 <solca> Stskeeps: I dont think so as flasher have different flags for those
Dec 07 19:44:43 <solca> Stskeeps: lifeguard had to do with dsme
Dec 07 19:45:03 <solca> if dsme is not happy it triggers a reboot via init
Dec 07 19:45:09 <Stskeeps> jagernot: think i better not play too much with this or i'll just go even more insane than i already am :P
Dec 07 19:45:18 <solca> unless the no-lifeguard-reset flag  is present
Dec 07 19:47:35 <jagernot> Meiz: http://www.poojyum.com/boxar/
Dec 07 19:48:15 <solca> Meiz_n810: I found another inconsistency with the rootfs and my devel rootfs: wpa_supplicant
Dec 07 19:48:48 <solca> Meiz_n810: sorry for bugging you but can you boot to nitdroid and just run a command?
Dec 07 19:50:10 <Meiz_n810> no i can't
Dec 07 19:50:43 <solca> Meiz_n810: ok
Dec 07 19:50:47 <Meiz_n810> i am 14, i can't say "i'll use my computer until it's 3.00
Dec 07 19:51:02 <Meiz_n810> that's the problem :(
Dec 07 19:51:14 <Stskeeps> and that's why you don't, and go there when your parents are asleep, and run up a 1200 euro phone bill
Dec 07 19:51:22 <Stskeeps> on 64kbit isdn modem
Dec 07 19:51:23 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 07 19:51:28 <Meiz_n810> :PP
Dec 07 19:51:41 <Stskeeps> hey, look where it brought me
Dec 07 19:51:42 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 07 19:51:48 <Meiz_n810> :P
Dec 07 19:52:02 <Meiz_n810> i should stop chatting in shower
Dec 07 19:52:25 <solca> Stskeeps: ;P
Dec 07 19:52:28 <Meiz_n810> i can break my n810
Dec 07 19:52:39 <disco_stu> yes you do
Dec 07 19:53:04 <Stskeeps> n900 better be waterproof.
Dec 07 19:53:28 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, ha :p. my parents were hating me for running up  a £30 one on 33.6k :p
Dec 07 19:53:29 * disco_stu hopes n900 can be mind controlled
Dec 07 19:53:51 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: .. it took ~6-7 years before i admitted it wasn't a linux malfuncion
Dec 07 19:54:06 <disco_stu> Stskeeps: LOL !
Dec 07 19:54:27 <Stskeeps> (to my defense, i did have to pay it off in working with newspapers)
Dec 07 19:54:39 <disco_stu> 30 isnt that much
Dec 07 19:54:56 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, hehe... i'd never have had been able to say that in the 1st place (avid windows user :/) :p
Dec 07 19:55:09 <qwerty12_N800> disco_stu, yep, but to my parents... :p
Dec 07 19:55:32 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: i was dual booting into linux and it was magically connecting to the net even without me asking .. :P :P
Dec 07 19:55:43 <disco_stu> qwerty12_N800: that was a lesson you'll never forget
Dec 07 19:55:46 <qwerty12_N800> lol :D
Dec 07 19:56:27 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: iam living in the middle of forest, the nearest bus-stop is  >10km away
Dec 07 19:56:53 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: and your dad has a shotgun if you think of running from the bill :P :P
Dec 07 19:57:00 <Meiz_n810> i have fastest internet connection it is possible to get here
Dec 07 19:57:14 <Meiz_n810> :P
Dec 07 19:57:16 <Meiz_n810> haha:P
Dec 07 19:57:35 <disco_stu> Meiz_n810: what do you have ?
Dec 07 19:57:47 <disco_stu> 3g or something like that ?
Dec 07 19:57:48 <Meiz_n810> 512kb ADSL
Dec 07 19:57:53 <qwerty12_N800> Meiz_n810, tell your local government that you will burn the trees if they don't make efforts to get better internet :p
Dec 07 19:58:06 <Meiz_n810> :PP
Dec 07 19:58:19 <qwerty12_N800> Meiz_n810, ouch... i used to have 256.. 4 hours per psp iso :/
Dec 07 19:58:25 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: Luckily he does not have :)
Dec 07 19:58:59 * Stskeeps was just happy that the huge phone bill caused the isp to give us flat rate as some of the first in the country
Dec 07 19:59:12 <Stskeeps> and later adsl
Dec 07 19:59:33 * solca did something stupid: flash a fiasco image without the --flash-only=kernel parameter !!!
Dec 07 19:59:45 <qwerty12_N800> shit!
Dec 07 19:59:50 <disco_stu> qwerty12_N800: do you know how to customize bootorder in boot menu ?
Dec 07 19:59:56 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, pong.
Dec 07 19:59:57 <Stskeeps> solca: :(
Dec 07 20:00:16 <qwerty12_N800> disco_stu, deblet's initfs?
Dec 07 20:00:22 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: hi buddy
Dec 07 20:00:29 <disco_stu> qwerty12_N800: no, os clonning
Dec 07 20:00:41 <qwerty12_N800> solca, better off extracting first :/
Dec 07 20:01:31 <qwerty12_N800> disco_stu, oh, you just edit bootmenu.conf and move the items around and change the number in front e.g MENU_1_ID= etc
Dec 07 20:01:45 <solca> damn I have some useful thing there plus all my customization work is lost :( wua wua
Dec 07 20:02:12 <qwerty12_N800> disco_stu, if you've already flashed initfs, you can remount it readwrite and edit bootmenu.conf directly
Dec 07 20:02:21 <qwerty12_N800> in diablo
Dec 07 20:02:38 <disco_stu> mmm
Dec 07 20:02:41 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: saw meiz's new screenshots?
Dec 07 20:02:43 <disco_stu> i clonned the os
Dec 07 20:02:58 <disco_stu> havent done anything else
Dec 07 20:03:22 <disco_stu> "mount initfs" ?
Dec 07 20:03:45 <qwerty12_N800> hrm, have you flashed fanoush's bootmenu?
Dec 07 20:03:53 <disco_stu> yeah
Dec 07 20:04:04 <disco_stu> it flashes with it when os clonning
Dec 07 20:04:17 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, no, way too much scrollback for me to care today. :P
Dec 07 20:04:21 <qwerty12_N800> disco_stu, do you want to move the items around in the menu?
Dec 07 20:04:27 <disco_stu> aha
Dec 07 20:04:27 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: hehe
Dec 07 20:04:34 <disco_stu> yes
Dec 07 20:04:52 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer
Dec 07 20:05:28 <qwerty12_N800> disco_stu, as root, run : mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs
Dec 07 20:05:41 <GeneralAntilles> Interesting
Dec 07 20:06:12 <Stskeeps> we're moving ahead nicely :)
Dec 07 20:06:48 <qwerty12_N800> disco_stu, then you can use vi (or whatever) /mnt/initfs/bootmenu.conf and change the MENU_X numbers etc and run mount -o remount,ro /mnt/initfs when done
Dec 07 20:06:56 <RST38h> what is that fm?
Dec 07 20:07:04 <disco_stu> qwerty12_N800: thanks man
Dec 07 20:07:13 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: That MID launcher is kourou, but i have never been able to start it
Dec 07 20:07:19 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 07 20:07:25 <Stskeeps> what's the question circle applet?
Dec 07 20:07:36 <Stskeeps> question bulb
Dec 07 20:07:41 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, pcmanfm
Dec 07 20:08:42 <Stskeeps> someone should hildonize that
Dec 07 20:08:42 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 07 20:08:55 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, go on :p
Dec 07 20:09:07 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: i'm busy enough fighting with the base system :P
Dec 07 20:09:16 <qwerty12_N800> hehe
Dec 07 20:09:33 <Meiz_n810> It doesn't look bad
Dec 07 20:15:21 * Meiz_n810 is trying out the latest boxar
Dec 07 20:17:34 <Stskeeps> lo r2d2rogers
Dec 07 20:17:39 <r2d2rogers> howdy Stskeeps
Dec 07 20:17:41 <RST38h> qwerty: wanna! wanna!
Dec 07 20:17:46 <r2d2rogers> I was hoping you were on
Dec 07 20:17:49 <RST38h> qwerty: Please? A short recompile?
Dec 07 20:18:14 <r2d2rogers> Stskeeps: I findmyself with two 770s, are you at a place to need mer testing on the 770?
Dec 07 20:18:30 <Stskeeps> yeah possibly, we might have a small bunch of people experimenting with it
Dec 07 20:18:52 <Stskeeps> i plan to make 770 images atleast, and made space for this in imager and such already
Dec 07 20:18:59 <r2d2rogers> good deal
Dec 07 20:19:02 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, i did one, about a year ago after some modifying :/ but I don't have the deb anymore and biggest problem was that I didn't know how to do a right click
Dec 07 20:19:04 <r2d2rogers> I like the screenshots I have seen
Dec 07 20:19:22 <Stskeeps> r2d2rogers: i'm even surprised that we're capable of things like meiz have been showing at this stage :P
Dec 07 20:19:27 <r2d2rogers> do you have any channels dedicated to the mer project on IRC?
Dec 07 20:19:32 <r2d2rogers> wow
Dec 07 20:19:33 <Stskeeps> this place really
Dec 07 20:19:36 <r2d2rogers> cool
Dec 07 20:19:46 <Stskeeps> and jaiku for updates, but i guess you're seeing those
Dec 07 20:19:47 <r2d2rogers> I followed the channel on jaiku
Dec 07 20:19:50 <r2d2rogers> yup
Dec 07 20:20:07 <r2d2rogers> about the only thing I have going in Jaiku any more.
Dec 07 20:20:30 <Stskeeps> is an experiment really.. since there are people from different timezones, we need to keep eachother updated
Dec 07 20:20:45 <Stskeeps> and microblogging is faster than reading through/writing big portitions of mails
Dec 07 20:20:45 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 07 20:20:58 <r2d2rogers> makes sense to me... it's just another window in IRSSI for me <G>
Dec 07 20:21:01 <r2d2rogers> good point
Dec 07 20:21:56 * r2d2rogers is digging around the m-r launchpad page
Dec 07 20:22:06 <Stskeeps> yeah, not much, except in code
Dec 07 20:22:13 <Stskeeps> ~mer
Dec 07 20:22:14 <infobot> methinks mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint , http://launchpad.net/m-r , http://jaiku.com/channel/reconstructedPOC , http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i/ (short summary)
Dec 07 20:22:21 <Stskeeps> is the primary sources of info currently
Dec 07 20:22:48 <Stskeeps> lemme just make a tar.gz for the shell script imager
Dec 07 20:22:58 <r2d2rogers> \o/
Dec 07 20:23:00 <Stskeeps> you can probably build a 770 imager for that
Dec 07 20:23:13 <r2d2rogers> awesome
Dec 07 20:23:38 <r2d2rogers> I need to setup the dev environment again...
Dec 07 20:23:44 <r2d2rogers> scratchbox...
Dec 07 20:24:09 <Stskeeps> hehe, we don't use sb right now :P we need someone to get sb2 slapped into submission on top of a rootstrap
Dec 07 20:24:24 <Stskeeps> we build natively, which obviously takes time. but building for i386 too helps on finding errors early
Dec 07 20:24:57 <r2d2rogers> well, with two 770's that won't hurt as bad as if I couldn't use one while compiling <G>
Dec 07 20:26:34 * Meiz_n810 wants to see the nm-applet working
Dec 07 20:28:02 <r2d2rogers> I figure I'm in the minority in wanting a hardcase on the next tablet?
Dec 07 20:29:25 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody have any experience with multi-lingual wikis or forums?
Dec 07 20:30:47 <Stskeeps> r2d2rogers: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-imager-20081207-2126.tar.gz , look at targets/mer-n800-onlyfs and make a targets/mer-770-onlyfs .. you need "mer-rescue-menu nit-bootmenu-compat kernel-modules-770" included instead of the n800 ones
Dec 07 20:31:16 <Stskeeps> to install, sh imager targets/mer-770-onlyfs /your/mounted/fs
Dec 07 20:31:30 <Stskeeps> you need to have swap enabled definately when installing.
Dec 07 20:31:48 <Stskeeps> and the usual binutils, debootstrap, md5sum as on http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/wiki/770Port
Dec 07 20:31:59 <Stskeeps> it will do the debootstrapping itself
Dec 07 20:32:11 * GeneralAntilles is a bit worried about the commitment level from people.
Dec 07 20:32:23 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: mm?
Dec 07 20:32:59 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, well, subforums and wikis just becoming dropboxes for spam.
Dec 07 20:33:02 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 07 20:33:03 <pupnik_> time is scarce, GeneralAntilles
Dec 07 20:33:15 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: go for International forum maybe
Dec 07 20:33:17 <r2d2rogers> got the instructions, will have to get the other 770 booting from card right?
Dec 07 20:33:17 <Stskeeps> it often works
Dec 07 20:33:25 <r2d2rogers> or is this to work in flash?
Dec 07 20:33:27 <Stskeeps> r2d2rogers: yeah, bootmenu as listed
Dec 07 20:33:34 <r2d2rogers> good deal
Dec 07 20:33:41 <Stskeeps> it does not install to flash (yet) on any of them, and i doubt it will on 770 (mer, that is, bootmenu will)
Dec 07 20:33:54 <r2d2rogers> ::nods::
Dec 07 20:34:21 <GeneralAntilles> Even if you get enough people dedicated to keeping it clean and up to date initially, they surely wont last forever.
Dec 07 20:34:23 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: wiki is a different thing.. i've had a wiki switch me to danish and completely stop working
Dec 07 20:34:50 <GeneralAntilles> and, especially in the case of the wiki, since it's separate from the English offering, the English admins wont really be paying attention to it.
Dec 07 20:34:53 <Stskeeps> mm
Dec 07 20:35:15 <GeneralAntilles> We just don't have the critical mass that Wikipedia has.
Dec 07 20:35:28 <Stskeeps> danish wikipedia isn't that good either :P
Dec 07 20:35:34 <r2d2rogers> The best I've seen of a multilingual community effort lately was the gitisbetterthanx.com site
Dec 07 20:35:34 <Stskeeps> r2d2rogers: and for academic interest, bzr branch is lp:~mer-committers/m-r/imager
Dec 07 20:36:20 <GeneralAntilles> But I don't have any direct experience with multilingual communities
Dec 07 20:36:58 <Stskeeps> does forum.nokia.com do any of it?
Dec 07 20:37:04 <Stskeeps> or whatever it's called
Dec 07 20:37:07 <Myrtti> can I translate something?
Dec 07 20:37:12 <Myrtti> I wants to translate something
Dec 07 20:37:22 <Myrtti> gimme something to translate kthxplzbai
Dec 07 20:37:37 <Myrtti> no?
Dec 07 20:37:39 <Myrtti> oh.
Dec 07 20:37:42 <Stskeeps> Myrtti has experience in multilingual communities? :P
Dec 07 20:38:37 <Myrtti> well I do translate software and am active in the Finnish Ubuntu community as well as in the international one...
Dec 07 20:38:51 <Myrtti> *shrug*
Dec 07 20:39:19 <Stskeeps> how does ubuntu deal with localized documentation/wiki and forums then?
Dec 07 20:40:08 <Stskeeps> i guess it compares to maemo decently
Dec 07 20:40:21 <Myrtti> well, Ubuntu has it's LoCo Council
Dec 07 20:40:26 <GeneralAntilles> http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=149
Dec 07 20:40:43 <Myrtti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams/LoCoCouncil
Dec 07 20:40:47 <r2d2rogers> Stskeeps: should that tar.gz have already had the 770 target file in it?
Dec 07 20:40:56 <Stskeeps> r2d2rogers: nop, you get the honor of making it yourself
Dec 07 20:41:10 <Myrtti> localisation of documentation and wiki is done in teams
Dec 07 20:41:10 * r2d2rogers is a LoCo Team member too, but for a mostly inactive team
Dec 07 20:41:11 <Stskeeps> just cp the old one and replace the packages_include
Dec 07 20:41:15 <r2d2rogers> ahha
Dec 07 20:41:18 <r2d2rogers> thanks ,G>
Dec 07 20:41:34 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: could be a way, yeah
Dec 07 20:41:57 <GeneralAntilles> Non-English subforums shouldn't be syndicated to the feeds
Dec 07 20:41:59 <Myrtti> I'm part of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-fi/+members
Dec 07 20:42:09 <GeneralAntilles> and need to have a decent moderator presence.
Dec 07 20:42:36 <Myrtti> I see I'm procrastinating filing in hours
Dec 07 20:42:36 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: perhaps if a population wants to be represented they should mainfest themselves in a group and become moderators in that area, and then the forums open based on their translations
Dec 07 20:42:36 <Myrtti> ...
Dec 07 20:43:23 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: like ze germans are doing atm
Dec 07 20:43:53 <mavhc> I want a fake german translation
Dec 07 20:44:04 <GeneralAntilles> Selecting moderators is difficult if the people coming in don't typically participate in the English forums.
Dec 07 20:44:23 <Stskeeps> mm
Dec 07 20:45:11 <Meiz_n810> apt-get update:
Dec 07 20:45:12 <Meiz_n810> Fetched 5094kB in 2h1min25s (699B/s)
Dec 07 20:45:26 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: mer or maemo?
Dec 07 20:45:27 <Meiz_n810> i changed my timezone in the middle of it
Dec 07 20:45:30 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 07 20:45:32 <Meiz_n810> Mer
Dec 07 20:45:43 <Stskeeps> it's not still using trac.tspre.org i hope
Dec 07 20:45:57 <Meiz_n810> ?
Dec 07 20:46:02 <Stskeeps> as in, repositiroy
Dec 07 20:46:09 <GeneralAntilles> The moderator's in a non-English forum have to uphold the values of the rest of the forum.
Dec 07 20:46:19 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: depends on your imager
Dec 07 20:46:20 <GeneralAntilles> As it reflects on the whole of the community
Dec 07 20:46:26 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: true, should be the right one then
Dec 07 20:46:33 <Meiz_n810> and it is
Dec 07 20:46:44 <GeneralAntilles> It's hard to independently verify that that's what they're doing.
Dec 07 20:50:20 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: then again, there's values on iTT? :P
Dec 07 20:50:36 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, humor aside, certainly.
Dec 07 20:51:04 <GeneralAntilles> Censorship is avoided, free discourse is encouraged, personal attacks are discouraged
Dec 07 20:51:27 <r2d2rogers> Time to go out an dabout with the family progress as it happens...
Dec 07 20:52:19 <GeneralAntilles> I'd worry about a non-English subforum either being too heavy-handed in meeting out punishment, and pruning topics or not active enough, letting the place run rampant.
Dec 07 20:52:55 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: only real way to go with it is have an initial group that volunteers, of the people who are active on both international and national.. and then handle when complaints come in
Dec 07 20:53:07 <Stskeeps> and agreeing to a social contract or whatever
Dec 07 20:54:53 <Stskeeps> .. dunno
Dec 07 20:57:41 <Stskeeps> r2d2rogers: oh, - rescue menu is in place here too, so hold down the home key to activate rescue menu, and select console mode / usb
Dec 07 20:57:58 <Stskeeps> i have no idea if the omapfb driver works properly on 770
Dec 07 21:00:10 <m-vo> Stskeeps, I finally squeezed out my ideas for how the Maemo SDK should be set up.  Maybe there is something for Mer in it as well?
Dec 07 21:00:16 <m-vo> Here: http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/the-cardinal-sin-of-scratchbox-a-backhanded-stab-at-the-maemo-sdk-and-the-promise-of-a-pot-of-gold/
Dec 07 21:00:27 <Stskeeps> i'll read up :)
Dec 07 21:00:54 <m-vo> It's looong. :/
Dec 07 21:01:27 <qwerty12_N800> m-vo, hi, is the diablo hildon-application-manager branch now in git too?
Dec 07 21:01:32 <Stskeeps> i'm taking a course on social and collaborative computing these days. those papers are massive.
Dec 07 21:01:54 <m-vo> I'm slowly changing my opinion about Deblet and Mer, etc... maybe this is the only way to show Nokia what Maemo should be.
Dec 07 21:02:10 <m-vo> qwerty12_N800: yes.
Dec 07 21:02:11 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: hometools depends on python2.5-osso, can i change it to someting that replaces it?
Dec 07 21:02:15 <m-vo> On gitorious.
Dec 07 21:02:41 <qwerty12_N800> m-vo, thanks, i couldn't tell it was the diablo branch..
Dec 07 21:02:50 <m-vo> Stskeeps: I bet they compress really well. :-)
Dec 07 21:03:10 <Stskeeps> m-vo: Mer is the way ahead currently, deblet as a project is dead for now.. it's not possible to get sane low power usage out of a desktop system on a mobile device
Dec 07 21:03:29 <Stskeeps> and what i'm reading so far in your blog i agree with, had some similar thoughts
Dec 07 21:03:46 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: hmm. i'll look into that
Dec 07 21:04:36 <Stskeeps> m-vo: i agree fully - sb2 should be as minimal as possible. it should only provide handy wrappers for some key interpreters/compilers, and besides that, get out of the way..
Dec 07 21:05:06 <Stskeeps> and just try to accelerating the rootstrap with native components
Dec 07 21:05:25 <m-vo> Stskeeps: Yeah, if you get to the end, it is all pretty simple.  I was afraid the cross compiler needs some major magic, but some -I and -L options seems to be enough.
Dec 07 21:05:55 <m-vo> sb2 could be much simpler out of the box still.
Dec 07 21:06:04 <m-vo> And a lot less specific.
Dec 07 21:06:10 <Stskeeps> yeah, i think i'll play a bit with that. sb2 seems like a good idea but it does interfere a bit too much in some key areas
Dec 07 21:06:33 <Stskeeps> it should basically be possible to take whatever rootstrap, slap a acceleration mapping on top, and compile away inside the rootstrap :P
Dec 07 21:07:08 <Stskeeps> in deblet we had good experience with simply distccing to a cross compiler
Dec 07 21:07:14 <Stskeeps> it didn't get in the way and did what it should
Dec 07 21:07:21 <m-vo> There is also the intersting idea of qemu somehow producing the native binaries on the fly...
Dec 07 21:07:34 <m-vo> Qemu as an emulator is probably not very high-tech.
Dec 07 21:09:02 <m-vo> Sb2 should basically be a chroot-plus-bind-mounts-without-the-need-to-be-root.
Dec 07 21:09:56 <m-vo> Or we could just all switch to GNU/Hurd! :-)
Dec 07 21:09:57 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Dec 07 21:11:04 <Stskeeps> i saw a qemu-arm chroot patch, could have been interesting, if it was possible to intermix native and foreign binaries
Dec 07 21:11:20 <Stskeeps> didn't work sanely though
Dec 07 21:11:57 <Stskeeps> i mean, i'm perfectly happy having a ssh server i can ssh into on my server that's actually running inside a mix native/foreign chroot :P
Dec 07 21:12:03 <GeneralAntilles> m-vo, is there any chance of the categories updates making it into the next SSU? ;)
Dec 07 21:12:59 <m-vo> GeneralAntilles: the "next SSU" is a bit of a fuzzy concept...
Dec 07 21:13:26 * GeneralAntilles is a bit worried that Nokia's already totally done with Diablo.
Dec 07 21:13:48 <GeneralAntilles> We're gonna end up with all this work going out the airlock until we get to Fremantle. <_<
Dec 07 21:14:06 * Meiz_n810 boots to Mer
Dec 07 21:14:20 <Stskeeps> hehe, what are you trying out this time, Meiz_n810?
Dec 07 21:14:58 <m-vo> GeneralAntilles: that is unfortunately a possibility that I don't want to talk about... :-/
Dec 07 21:15:30 <m-vo> I can't say anything at all about releases, guys, sorry.
Dec 07 21:15:40 <GeneralAntilles> m-vo, yeah, I understand.
Dec 07 21:15:56 <GeneralAntilles> Well, if it comes down to it we'll just have to get Stskeeps working seriously on the community edition. :P
Dec 07 21:16:09 <Stskeeps> heh, the only releases that matter to me are tags on stage.maemo.org svn ;)
Dec 07 21:16:28 <m-vo> I don't like that, and we are really suffering because of not having public beta releases, but those are the rules...
Dec 07 21:18:03 <GeneralAntilles> Hopefully Nokia pulls its head out of its own ass before it's too late.
Dec 07 21:18:10 <m-vo> But, the time from cutting a release of the OS to when it actually hits the servers is pretty long.  So, if I would release the catpo changes now, it would not surprise me when there is a SSU coming out after that that doesn't include the catpo changes.
Dec 07 21:18:53 <m-vo> Nokia likes big launch events.
Dec 07 21:19:18 <m-vo> There was a time when even code names like Diablo were secret... meh.
Dec 07 21:20:14 <mavhc> is there a long delay because there's lots of testing? or is the release server just a long way to walk to?
Dec 07 21:20:38 <Stskeeps> probably a whole production line to get through
Dec 07 21:20:41 <m-vo> mavhc: haha :-)  No, there is a lot of testing and certification.
Dec 07 21:21:25 <mavhc> what's certification in this context?
Dec 07 21:21:55 <m-vo> So that we can put all the USB and Bluetooth etc logos on the box.
Dec 07 21:22:19 <mavhc> ah, damn those boxes
Dec 07 21:22:54 * m-vo mentions in passing that all the good stuff like TCP/IP and the whole web 2.0 stack doesn't need any certification.
Dec 07 21:24:30 <Veggen> m-vo: That doesn't mean that it could actually be an improvement if it did...? ;P
Dec 07 21:24:44 <Veggen> eh, couldn't.
Dec 07 21:25:29 <m-vo> Hmm, you mean things like making passing the acid test mandatory before you can call your program "web browser"?
Dec 07 21:25:37 <Veggen> something like that? ;)
Dec 07 21:26:06 <mavhc> I tried to acid test my n810, now it doesn't work and there's a funny smell
Dec 07 21:26:56 <m-vo> mavhc: not this acid test http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/drugacid.html
Dec 07 21:27:15 <mavhc> I was just dipping it in acid
Dec 07 21:27:22 <Stskeeps> ah, if a tablet is usable while under the influence of acid
Dec 07 21:27:26 <Stskeeps> always a good certification
Dec 07 21:27:46 <mavhc> bug 14395: UI too scary when high
Dec 07 21:28:14 <disco_stu> lol
Dec 07 21:28:31 <mavhc> all too often the needs of hippies, or "stoned americans" as we prefer to be called, are not considered
Dec 07 21:28:56 <Stskeeps> i suspect boxar would be very useful in an acid test. those are some trippy tunes possible with it.
Dec 07 21:29:36 <mavhc> anyway, considering how many tablets the updates screw up, less testing seems bad
Dec 07 21:30:35 <Stskeeps> mavhc: well, mostly it happens cos of too much tinkering.. and it is impossible to avoid stuff caused by tinkering :)
Dec 07 21:30:54 <m-vo> mavhc: we need more 'real' testing, not more of the artifical testing we do.
Dec 07 21:30:59 <disco_stu> tinkering?
Dec 07 21:31:14 <m-vo> Updates are pretty perfect when installed on top of unused devices.
Dec 07 21:31:34 <mavhc> unused devices don't sell, call marketting
Dec 07 21:32:10 <m-vo> :-)  Err, I mean, updating a freshly flashed device with SSU works hundred percent, every time.
Dec 07 21:32:51 <GeneralAntilles> Well, fix osv and we're basically set update wise. :\
Dec 07 21:33:59 <GeneralAntilles> Running out of space when it tries (and fails) to install 20MB of PDFs was the primary cause of update failures last time around
Dec 07 21:34:24 * Stskeeps would love a simple feature like "Would you like me to backup your rootfs to your MMC card, I'll restore if my updates fail"
Dec 07 21:34:30 <l7> why are those PDFs included with the updates anyhow?
Dec 07 21:34:32 <Stskeeps> so it would revert for you
Dec 07 21:35:10 <Stskeeps> zfs snapshots could be neat, if we didn't have so little space in flash :P
Dec 07 21:35:15 <m-vo> GeneralAntilles: fix osv in what way?  Make it more flexible?  Yes, but I would say we need make it easy to avoid osv.
Dec 07 21:35:29 <m-vo> l7: tradition.
Dec 07 21:36:01 <l7> tradition? that seems crazy
Dec 07 21:36:15 <GeneralAntilles> m-vo, well, clearly it's hardly an ideal architecture, ;) but simply dropping the preinstalled documentation from the dependencies would've solved 90% of the update failures last time around. . . .
Dec 07 21:36:20 <m-vo> Big corporations are all mentally insane
Dec 07 21:36:29 <l7> they could just post them on a website
Dec 07 21:37:03 <Meiz_n810> qwerty: how can i change fonf size in hildon?
Dec 07 21:37:10 <l7> oh, well that would be thinking like a sane person
Dec 07 21:37:20 <m-vo> GeneralAntilles: that's what I did...
Dec 07 21:38:10 * m-vo has a lot to learn about how to implement change in a ig organization.
Dec 07 21:38:19 <m-vo> "big".
Dec 07 21:38:24 <l7> how badly does a failed update hurt your tablet?
Dec 07 21:38:44 <GeneralAntilles> l7, reboot loops last time around.
Dec 07 21:38:53 <m-vo> The SSU stuff is not really understood well enough by us yet.
Dec 07 21:38:55 <GeneralAntilles> m-vo, well, then the next round should go a lot more smoothly. ;)
Dec 07 21:39:13 <qwerty12_N800> Meiz_n810, edit /usr/share/themes/<current theme>/gtk-2.0/gtkrc  and find font sizes in there
Dec 07 21:39:14 * m-vo prefers to stay silent... :)
Dec 07 21:39:16 <GeneralAntilles> When preinstalled failed to configure, it left stuff like ICD unconfigured
Dec 07 21:39:25 <l7> eh reboot loops sound bad
Dec 07 21:39:29 <GeneralAntilles> Then, BOOM, ICD doesn't start, and reboot loop city.
Dec 07 21:39:45 <Stskeeps> better than android's robot loops
Dec 07 21:39:52 <l7> seems like the best thing to do is just boot from SD all the time and keep a cloned maemo system handy
Dec 07 21:39:55 <m-vo> Yes, running out of space is the worst thing and it basically means reflashing time.
Dec 07 21:40:06 <Stskeeps> l7: or having fanoush bootmenu handy..
Dec 07 21:40:11 <Meiz_n810> qwerty12_N800: what i should try to find there, i have tried font and size, no luck...
Dec 07 21:40:28 <l7> can you still charge the battery if you're stuck in a reboot loop?
Dec 07 21:40:50 <qwerty12_N800> Meiz_n810, search for numbers like 16, you'll see the size next to the font name
Dec 07 21:41:18 <Stskeeps> l7: well a reboot loop stops after a while afaik
Dec 07 21:41:20 <Stskeeps> DSME makes sure so
Dec 07 21:41:53 <Stskeeps> .. i think
Dec 07 21:41:56 <l7> what happens after it stops?
Dec 07 21:42:04 <Stskeeps> zzz? :P
Dec 07 21:42:56 <Stskeeps> i usually pop my battery before that though
Dec 07 21:44:01 <GeneralAntilles> It'd be nice if Nokia included a recovery system by default
Dec 07 21:44:14 <Stskeeps> yeah, it's the most asked for thing in here really
Dec 07 21:44:27 <Meiz_n810> qwerty12_N800: Thanks
Dec 07 21:44:30 <Stskeeps> "how do i rescue my files out of my tablet now that it has gone into a reboot loop"
Dec 07 21:45:05 <l7> yeah, it would have been nice to to have lost my configuration files because of having to reflash
Dec 07 21:45:19 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: think solca's selector might be an interesting step in the right direction
Dec 07 21:45:50 <Stskeeps> with both being able to kexec different kernels and having rescue facilities
Dec 07 21:46:04 <l7> are there any downsides to booting from SD aside from the loss of a card slot?
Dec 07 21:46:22 <l7> as it stands, booting from SD seems like a huge leap over booting from flash in every way
Dec 07 21:46:35 <GeneralAntilles> l7, not even a whole slot, just a partition.
Dec 07 21:46:42 <l7> yeah, true
Dec 07 21:48:22 <disco_stu> today i clonned my os to mmc1 and i think it goes faster
Dec 07 21:48:37 <GeneralAntilles> It boots faster, anyway.
Dec 07 21:48:38 <Stskeeps> disco_stu: it doesn't have to compress, so
Dec 07 21:48:43 <GeneralAntilles> Assuming you're not using a crap card.
Dec 07 21:48:43 <Stskeeps> or decompress
Dec 07 21:49:04 <disco_stu> will see if the card can take the job
Dec 07 21:49:38 <l7> what brand of card is it?
Dec 07 21:49:55 <disco_stu> sandisk 2gb
Dec 07 21:49:59 <Stskeeps> one thing i definately want to experiment with in mer is "I see you have an internal card, would you like me to move from my constrained space to it, so you can feed me more applications for you to use?" :P
Dec 07 21:50:15 <disco_stu> and i have a kingston with 4gb
Dec 07 21:50:21 <Stskeeps> and introducing clippy into the UI.
Dec 07 21:51:15 <disco_stu> now i have 1gb for appz
Dec 07 21:51:28 <disco_stu> wich is cool
Dec 07 21:52:45 <l7> that SD card benchmark linked from the SDHC wikipedia entry is handy btw
Dec 07 21:52:48 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: great idea :P
Dec 07 21:53:01 <disco_stu> i dont want the card to break, and the jffs either
Dec 07 21:53:09 <l7> too bad it doesn't compare small vs big files
Dec 07 21:53:33 <disco_stu> i do bench with 'dd'
Dec 07 21:53:50 <l7> ah what settings to you use?
Dec 07 21:54:12 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, watch out for caching.
Dec 07 21:54:16 <l7> it seems like dd can only simulate the read or write of one large file
Dec 07 21:54:29 <ShadowJK> yes
Dec 07 21:54:53 <ShadowJK> For use as a system drive the random access speed matters more :)
Dec 07 21:55:00 <disco_stu> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmblk count=something
Dec 07 21:55:22 <disco_stu> that way caching wont do anything
Dec 07 21:55:47 <disco_stu> but will erase your car
Dec 07 21:56:10 <m-vo> Stskeeps: "Is that a card in my slot, or are you just happy to boot me?"
Dec 07 21:56:12 <m-vo> Ouch.
Dec 07 21:56:18 <l7> with do you use time to measure the speed?
Dec 07 21:56:22 <l7> s/with//
Dec 07 21:56:22 <infobot> l7 meant:  do you use time to measure the speed?
Dec 07 21:56:33 <Stskeeps> m-vo: haha
Dec 07 21:56:41 <ShadowJK> bonnie++ is nice for benchmarking disks, it really shows how flash's big pagesize hurts
Dec 07 21:57:12 <m-vo> l7: maybe of interest: http://linux-mm.org/Drop_Caches
Dec 07 21:57:36 <l7> s/Is that a card in my slot/Is that a wet card slot/
Dec 07 21:57:48 <Stskeeps> oh boy
Dec 07 21:57:51 <l7> to reference a really bad thread
Dec 07 21:57:51 <Stskeeps> that thread was classic
Dec 07 21:58:09 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Dec 07 21:59:10 <l7> m-vo: hmm, this is interesting
Dec 07 21:59:30 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: where did you get the two moons wallpaper from btw?
Dec 07 22:00:11 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: gnome-look.org
Dec 07 22:00:34 <GeneralAntilles> http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper_beta/downloads/date/any/
Dec 07 22:00:34 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 07 22:00:39 <GeneralAntilles> They have stuff in 800x480
Dec 07 22:05:00 <disco_stu> i guess booting from sd makes swap slower
Dec 07 22:05:16 <Stskeeps> do it on the external SD? :P
Dec 07 22:05:45 <disco_stu> yeah could be
Dec 07 22:07:02 <l7> you could try placing the swap partition on a different card than the one you boot from
Dec 07 22:07:32 <Stskeeps> m-vo: think i'll (or get someone to) do some experiments with that line of thought in your post, since native building on a qemu arm is a bit of a drag atm :)
Dec 07 22:07:50 <l7> not sure if that will increase performance though
Dec 07 22:08:26 <l7> or maybe build a small RAID array out of SD cards and connect it via USB ;)
Dec 07 22:16:20 <l7> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/2+Moons?content=90890 looks neat
Dec 07 22:18:51 <marzec> greetings
Dec 07 22:19:19 <marzec> i couldn't find an answer on the net for my problem so i want to try my luck here
Dec 07 22:19:30 <Stskeeps> try us :P
Dec 07 22:19:44 <marzec> for some reason the seamless software update does not work on my device ( n810, diablo 30-2 )
Dec 07 22:19:59 <marzec> so i figured i'd simply use the flasher provided by nokia
Dec 07 22:20:26 <marzec> however, the flasher does not recognize the device when i connect it to my pc ( win xp, sp 2 )=
Dec 07 22:20:41 <marzec> or rather, i'd notices a new device, tries to install drivers and fails
Dec 07 22:20:51 <Stskeeps> ~flashing
Dec 07 22:20:52 <infobot> from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Dec 07 22:20:58 <timeless> um, i don't suppose the seamoless software update had a log indicating why it failed :)
Dec 07 22:21:01 <marzec> yes, i searched the net
Dec 07 22:21:08 <Stskeeps> try to follow the instructions in there
Dec 07 22:21:13 <marzec> i did so
Dec 07 22:21:33 <GeneralAntilles> timeless, it does, more or less, in the Application Manager's menu.
Dec 07 22:21:34 <marzec> i probably messed up something while was doing some usb related developement on the device
Dec 07 22:24:05 <timeless> marzec: it'd be nice if you checked the application manager log first
Dec 07 22:24:18 <marzec> i'm doing so atm, just a second
Dec 07 22:24:45 <marzec> when checking it in the application manager i only have a single entry saying hildon application manager 2.1.15
Dec 07 22:24:48 <marzec> *2.1.16
Dec 07 22:24:50 <marzec> however
Dec 07 22:25:28 <marzec> when doing an apt-get update on the cli apt does not seem to be able to connect to the diablo repository
Dec 07 22:25:43 <timeless> i don't suppose you poisoned dns at some point
Dec 07 22:26:00 <marzec> hm, normal serving and pinging works though
Dec 07 22:26:02 <marzec> deb        http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo free non-free
Dec 07 22:26:02 <marzec> deb-src    http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo free non-free
Dec 07 22:26:06 <marzec> that's my sources list
Dec 07 22:26:06 <timeless> either by adding a package to do it, or changing the spelling
Dec 07 22:26:16 <l7> marzec: this is related to window's funky usb connection right?
Dec 07 22:26:19 <timeless> load http://repository.maemo.org/404-404
Dec 07 22:26:28 <marzec> checking
Dec 07 22:26:40 <marzec> l7, yes, when i try the flasher on win xp
Dec 07 22:27:13 <l7> you might try either using safe mode and seeing if the flasher can see your tablet
Dec 07 22:27:36 <l7> or go into device manager / computer manager and clean up some of the usb settings
Dec 07 22:27:47 <GeneralAntilles> http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/ is where updates come from
Dec 07 22:28:00 <marzec> GeneralAntilles, i will add that to my repo list
Dec 07 22:28:12 <marzec> timeless, that gave me a 404 but no dns error
Dec 07 22:28:25 <marzec> l7, i will check that. first i try the other source
Dec 07 22:28:40 <GeneralAntilles> marzec, unless you forcibly removed it, it's there.
Dec 07 22:28:47 <GeneralAntilles> It's the only way system updates would show up.
Dec 07 22:29:10 <marzec> i probably forcably removed it
Dec 07 22:29:13 <Stskeeps> isn't it in sources.list.d/hildon- instead of /etc/apt/sources.list? :P
Dec 07 22:29:57 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, yes.
Dec 07 22:31:05 <marzec> hm
Dec 07 22:31:06 <marzec> Ign http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com diablo Release.gpg
Dec 07 22:31:11 <marzec> that doesn't seem right
Dec 07 22:32:39 <m-vo> marzec: that is probably for the empty nokia-certified repo.
Dec 07 22:32:49 <m-vo> apt-get helpfully omits parts of the URL.
Dec 07 22:33:02 <timeless> hi m-vo
Dec 07 22:33:10 <marzec> ic, i should really learn a bit more about debian
Dec 07 22:33:10 <marzec> http://nopaste.com/p/axjdy40MA
Dec 07 22:33:13 <m-vo> timeless: hi! :)
Dec 07 22:33:14 <marzec> here's the apt-get update output
Dec 07 22:33:24 <marzec> if anybody could take the time to check
Dec 07 22:33:26 <timeless> what brings you out in the open?
Dec 07 22:33:28 <m-vo> marzec: well, this stuff right here is a bit obscure.
Dec 07 22:33:51 <m-vo> marzec: look into /etc/apt/sources.list.d
Dec 07 22:33:57 <m-vo> note the ".d"
Dec 07 22:33:58 <marzec> checking
Dec 07 22:34:01 <marzec> noted
Dec 07 22:34:44 <marzec> /etc/apt/sources.list.d # cat hildon-application-manager.list
Dec 07 22:34:44 <marzec> deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ diablo free non-free
Dec 07 22:35:09 <marzec> that's the only file in there and the only line in the file
Dec 07 22:35:44 <m-vo> Oh.
Dec 07 22:36:16 <m-vo> Hmm, how did this go again on Diablo... I keep forgetting...
Dec 07 22:36:40 <m-vo> marzec: Did you try the Catalogue dialog in the AM UI?
Dec 07 22:36:49 <m-vo> Maybe it is just disabled..
Dec 07 22:37:47 <marzec> the catalogue shows all three entries, 2 from the source.list and the other one from the hildon file
Dec 07 22:37:58 <marzec> that is deb and deb src for diablo free / non free and the extras repository
Dec 07 22:38:18 <marzec> however, i can not edit the diablo repositories in the ui
Dec 07 22:38:35 <marzec> so i can not check wheter they are deactivated
Dec 07 22:38:40 <marzec> i can do so for the extras repository
Dec 07 22:38:41 <m-vo> No "Nokia System Software Updates" entry?
Dec 07 22:38:45 <marzec> no
Dec 07 22:38:46 <thp> how can i set my maemo.org user icon?
Dec 07 22:39:06 <GeneralAntilles> thp, edit your account
Dec 07 22:39:25 <GeneralAntilles> thp, you may have to click save, then it'll lead you to a page with a bunch of checkboxes
Dec 07 22:39:34 <GeneralAntilles> It's really obnoxious and roundabout and I need to file a bug about it. . . .
Dec 07 22:39:44 <m-vo> marzec: try this one: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo-2/
Dec 07 22:40:04 <marzec> m-vo, checking
Dec 07 22:40:06 <thp> GeneralAntilles: awesome! thanks :) that worked
Dec 07 22:40:09 <m-vo> Err, add "deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo-2/ ./" to /etc/apt/sources.list
Dec 07 22:40:32 <marzec> thought so :)
Dec 07 22:40:36 <m-vo> /etc/apt/sources.list.s/hildon- is overwritten by the AM.
Dec 07 22:40:38 <GeneralAntilles> diablo-2 wont get you the updates for 30-6
Dec 07 22:40:44 <thp> GeneralAntilles: do you know if this will automatically update my planet.maemo.org icon too?
Dec 07 22:40:54 <GeneralAntilles> thp, yes, they're the same.
Dec 07 22:41:09 <thp> thanks :)
Dec 07 22:41:47 <m-vo> GeneralAntilles: no?  Whats in diablo-2 now?  Nothing?
Dec 07 22:41:48 <marzec> wonderfull that got me the 36-5 update
Dec 07 22:41:56 <marzec> trying to install it
Dec 07 22:41:59 <m-vo> Aha! :-)
Dec 07 22:42:05 <GeneralAntilles> Does it?
Dec 07 22:42:06 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm
Dec 07 22:42:10 <m-vo> marzec: uhh, I'm nervous...
Dec 07 22:42:10 <marzec> m-vo, thanks a lot
Dec 07 22:42:26 <GeneralAntilles> Did Nokia actually populate the latest repo with the latest packages?
Dec 07 22:42:41 <m-vo> Yes, yes, we fixed that.  Stupd oversight.
Dec 07 22:42:44 <marzec> libhildonfm2 is missing
Dec 07 22:42:47 <marzec> i can't install the update
Dec 07 22:42:49 <marzec> oh well
Dec 07 22:42:49 <m-vo> /Stupd/Stupid/
Dec 07 22:42:59 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, thank goodness, one less thing for me to bitch about about SSU. ;)
Dec 07 22:43:09 <m-vo> Hmm, did you mess with your system?
Dec 07 22:43:12 <marzec> yes
Dec 07 22:43:22 <marzec> that's why i wanted to flash it via usb
Dec 07 22:43:27 <marzec> which does not work
Dec 07 22:43:36 <m-vo> let
Dec 07 22:43:40 <m-vo> Errm.
Dec 07 22:43:49 <marzec> but i think i have taken enough of your time for now. i'll try it at my company on monday
Dec 07 22:43:51 <m-vo> let's try to fix it, marzec.
Dec 07 22:44:03 <marzec> well if you have the time i'd be grateful
Dec 07 22:44:12 <m-vo> Let's see. :-)
Dec 07 22:44:28 <m-vo> I assume you feel at home in a root shell, right?
Dec 07 22:44:46 <marzec> yes
Dec 07 22:45:05 <marzec> checking apt-cache i can see that lib but only the debug version of it
Dec 07 22:45:17 <marzec> wait there's the normal one too
Dec 07 22:45:18 <m-vo> what you want to do is "apt-get install osso-software-version-rx44" (if you have a N810).
Dec 07 22:45:21 <marzec> trying to manually installing it
Dec 07 22:45:41 <m-vo> marzec: the -dbg packages only contain the symbols, no actual library.
Dec 07 22:45:47 <marzec> ay
Dec 07 22:45:57 <m-vo> marzec: you might want to disable all repos that are SDK related.
Dec 07 22:46:04 <marzec> seems to work
Dec 07 22:46:10 <marzec> i already tried that earlier that day
Dec 07 22:46:18 <marzec> but i was obviously missing the repo :)
Dec 07 22:46:21 <m-vo> what's apt-get trying to do?
Dec 07 22:46:32 <m-vo> maybe it is removing half your system... :-/
Dec 07 22:46:35 <marzec> i get's all the needed stuff from the nokia update site
Dec 07 22:46:41 <marzec> that would not be a problem
Dec 07 22:46:46 <marzec> i backed up everything i need
Dec 07 22:47:13 <m-vo> Ok... hmm , why didn't the AM do it itself, then... hmm....
Dec 07 22:47:22 <marzec> i have no idea
Dec 07 22:47:27 <marzec> but it seems to update the os now
Dec 07 22:47:33 <marzec> said it would update 87 packages
Dec 07 22:47:39 <marzec> and they all seem to be core system packages
Dec 07 22:47:43 <marzec> stuff like microb etc.
Dec 07 22:47:48 <m-vo> AM handles conflicts differently.  Apt-get remove anything?
Dec 07 22:47:55 <marzec> no
Dec 07 22:48:15 <marzec> dpkg: `ldconfig' not found on PATH.
Dec 07 22:48:15 <marzec> dpkg: `start-stop-daemon' not found on PATH.
Dec 07 22:48:15 <marzec> dpkg: `install-info' not found on PATH.
Dec 07 22:48:15 <marzec> dpkg: `update-rc.d' not found on PATH.
Dec 07 22:48:15 <marzec> dpkg: 4 expected program(s) not found on PATH.
Dec 07 22:48:18 <marzec> NB: root's PATH should usually contain /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and /sbin.
Dec 07 22:48:20 <marzec> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)
Dec 07 22:48:22 <marzec> grr
Dec 07 22:48:24 <marzec> setting the paths and doing it again
Dec 07 22:48:26 <marzec> ...
Dec 07 22:48:27 <m-vo> Whoa.
Dec 07 22:49:25 <marzec> whoa does not actually sound that good heh
Dec 07 22:49:56 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Dec 07 22:51:22 <GeneralAntilles> I think I've had paths become unset after installing a package on an almost full system (and running out of space in the process)
Dec 07 22:51:47 <marzec> yes that could well be
Dec 07 22:51:55 <marzec> manually setting the paths did the trick though
Dec 07 22:51:59 <marzec> it seems to update the system now
Dec 07 22:52:02 <GeneralAntilles> Somewhat similar to: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3795
Dec 07 22:53:04 <marzec> hm, yes sounds familiar
Dec 07 22:53:14 <marzec> i installed gcc plus some x-headers on the device
Dec 07 22:53:21 <GeneralAntilles> Really messed up evil things tend to happen when the system runs out of storage space
Dec 07 22:53:22 <marzec> and that seemed to have fucked up a lot
Dec 07 22:53:35 <marzec> yeah, all that dev stuff took a lot of space
Dec 07 22:53:46 <GeneralAntilles> I really hope the next tablet has a sane amount of built-in storage
Dec 07 22:53:47 <marzec> i guess i had like 5mb left on the root fs at some point
Dec 07 22:53:50 <GeneralAntilles> marzec:
Dec 07 22:53:52 <GeneralAntilles> ~boot-sd
Dec 07 22:53:53 <infobot> somebody said boot-sd was https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card
Dec 07 22:54:07 <GeneralAntilles> If you're doing on-device development, you'll definitely want to boot from an SD card.
Dec 07 22:54:21 <marzec> oh, yes that makes sense :)
Dec 07 22:54:22 * m-vo has a N810 with 8 GiB internal flash... 8-)
Dec 07 22:54:44 <marzec> poser :)
Dec 07 22:55:05 <marzec> ok great, that seemed to work
Dec 07 22:55:07 <GAN800> The ke-recv source with 768MB of swap on internal is interesting.
Dec 07 22:55:35 <marzec> oh shit
Dec 07 22:55:47 <marzec> i shouldn't have sshd via putty and update with that...
Dec 07 22:55:54 <GAN800> Ehehe
Dec 07 22:55:56 <m-vo> yeah....
Dec 07 22:56:00 <Stskeeps> heard that one before
Dec 07 22:56:08 <GAN800> The pitfalls of updating icd. ;)
Dec 07 22:56:44 <m-vo> marzec: just hang in there it might come back.
Dec 07 22:56:47 <GAN800> marzec, clearly an unsupported use-case. :p
Dec 07 22:56:58 <marzec> nope cause it seems to have stopped the connectivity client
Dec 07 22:57:14 <marzec> *demon
Dec 07 22:57:16 <m-vo> yes, but it might bring it up again.
Dec 07 22:57:24 <marzec> hm
Dec 07 22:57:27 <mavhc> you'd think it'd be eaiser to just symlink a part of the fs to an sd card
Dec 07 22:57:37 <m-vo> not sure whether a lost netweork really stops apt-get.
Dec 07 22:58:25 <GeneralAntilles> mavhc, evil, evil, evil.
Dec 07 22:58:28 <marzec> apt-get was already installing
Dec 07 22:58:40 <marzec> and stopped the demon at some point
Dec 07 22:58:47 <marzec> putty can't recover
Dec 07 22:58:57 <marzec> put apt-get should execute to finish at least
Dec 07 22:59:03 <marzec> so i guess i have a smoke and see what happens
Dec 07 22:59:25 <marzec> thanks for all the great help, didn't expect that :) i'll be back to get on your nerves
Dec 07 22:59:43 <GeneralAntilles> mavhc, what happens there is that when the battery gets low it shuts down the SD cards.
Dec 07 22:59:57 <GeneralAntilles> It also doubles the failure points
Dec 07 23:00:03 <GeneralAntilles> It's much cleaner and easier to just boot from SD.
Dec 07 23:00:24 <mavhc> same thing that happens as when it's all on SD?
Dec 07 23:00:44 <l7> at what point does power to the SD card get shut off?
Dec 07 23:01:07 <l7> i assume that means your system crashes if you're booted from SD
Dec 07 23:02:18 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: it shuts down SD cards when battery gets too low? didn't know that
Dec 07 23:02:37 <Stskeeps> thought it would die way before that :P
Dec 07 23:03:36 <ShadowJK> mine seems to do a clean shutdown
Dec 07 23:03:43 <m-vo> marzec: good luck!
Dec 07 23:03:59 * Stskeeps heads off to bed
Dec 07 23:04:26 <GeneralAntilles> l7, not an issue when you're booted from the card.
Dec 07 23:04:45 <GeneralAntilles> It shuts down cleanly as usual.
Dec 07 23:07:21 <marzec> ow..
Dec 07 23:07:32 <marzec> if i remember correctly the n810 is not really multitasking is it?
Dec 07 23:07:47 <marzec> that is, background stuff like an ssh session will go to sleep if not active anymore
Dec 07 23:07:54 <marzec> so my apt-get just hangs there doing nothing
Dec 07 23:07:56 <marzec> crap
Dec 07 23:08:26 <marzec> top confirms it, apt-get and dpkg are running but at 0% cpu
Dec 07 23:09:06 <Stskeeps> apt-get upgrade is not that suspectable to HUP
Dec 07 23:09:31 <marzec> hopefully
Dec 07 23:09:40 <Stskeeps> it will probably finish. it multitasks fully
Dec 07 23:10:49 <marzec> uh some life signals from dpkg
Dec 07 23:10:57 <marzec> well, then i have to be patient i guess
Dec 07 23:12:22 * GeneralAntilles wonders if he's likely to hear back from integration.
Dec 07 23:18:22 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles, how much swap have you allocated?
Dec 07 23:18:29 <GeneralAntilles> 128MB
Dec 07 23:18:45 <GeneralAntilles> More is likely to lead to performance degradation
Dec 07 23:19:11 <disco_stu> i was going to try 256
Dec 07 23:19:33 <GeneralAntilles> No point
Dec 07 23:19:49 <disco_stu> ok
Dec 07 23:21:15 <ShadowJK> It's too slow once it goes much over 128 in use anyway
Dec 07 23:25:08 <marzec> hm, apt is no longer locked
Dec 07 23:25:16 <marzec> think it's save to reboot GeneralAntilles?
Dec 07 23:25:42 <practisevoodoo_> right, i know that kismet works on the n810 os2008 cause i have had it on here before but i didnt bookmark it and now i cant find it again, anyone got the url to the package saved?
Dec 07 23:28:12 <disco_stu> ~kismet
Dec 07 23:28:13 <infobot> rumour has it, kismet is http://www.kismetwireless.net/
Dec 07 23:29:04 <marzec> nice i think i just killed my n810...
Dec 07 23:29:18 <marzec> now i got the reboot syndrom...
Dec 07 23:32:44 <GeneralAntilles> Disable the watchdog and try apt-get -f install or just wait and flash it.
Dec 07 23:34:13 <marzec> well the device just reboots at startup, around 80%. same as the stuff i read on the forums
Dec 07 23:34:21 <marzec> how could i disable the watchdog in that situation?
Dec 07 23:34:53 <GeneralAntilles> ~flasher
Dec 07 23:34:53 <infobot> from memory, flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher
Dec 07 23:35:10 <nikosapi> so it seems my SD card got fried and now my terminal freezes for a long while when cd'ing and ls'ing :S
Dec 07 23:35:19 <nikosapi> this is so bizzare
Dec 07 23:35:57 <t_s_o> tried to insert it in a pc and run a filesystem check?
Dec 07 23:36:20 <nikosapi> the SD card?
Dec 07 23:36:49 <nikosapi> none of my computers/card-readers will recognize it
Dec 07 23:37:14 <marzec> GeneralAntilles, i tried that already a couple of times
Dec 07 23:37:28 <marzec> the problem is that the n810 does not wait for the flasher on startup but conitnues to boot
Dec 07 23:37:31 <marzec> *continues
Dec 07 23:37:49 <GeneralAntilles> marzec, are you holding down the swap key with the USB plugged in?
Dec 07 23:38:04 <marzec> the home key, as described on the page
Dec 07 23:38:18 <GeneralAntilles> and USB is plugged in?
Dec 07 23:38:21 <GeneralAntilles> The charger is unplugged?
Dec 07 23:38:22 <marzec> of course
Dec 07 23:38:27 <marzec> check and check
Dec 07 23:38:37 <marzec> windows xp, latest flasher from nokia site
Dec 07 23:38:38 <GeneralAntilles> Are you SURE you're holding down the home key?
Dec 07 23:38:50 <GeneralAntilles> and doing it while powering it on?
Dec 07 23:39:07 <marzec> my my... i mistook the home key as being the power on key
Dec 07 23:39:10 <marzec> i'm very sorry
Dec 07 23:39:14 <marzec> english is not my first language
Dec 07 23:39:27 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Dec 07 23:39:29 <marzec> take that as an excuse for stupidity...
Dec 07 23:39:39 <GeneralAntilles> It's the one on the front face with the two overlapping rectangles. ;)
Dec 07 23:39:47 <marzec> ay, i figured :p
Dec 07 23:39:50 <marzec> damn it
Dec 07 23:39:58 <GeneralAntilles> I still need to dredge up some little pictures to show what the button is.
Dec 07 23:40:26 <marzec> thanks, works like a charme now...
Dec 07 23:41:09 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Dec 07 23:45:43 <marzec> wow that was fast
Dec 07 23:46:59 <marzec> finally back to slashdot
Dec 07 23:47:07 <marzec> thanks a lot folks and gn
Dec 07 23:58:44 <zakkm> Is there a http downloader for the nokia, some kind of gtk wget perhaps?
Dec 07 23:59:06 <GeneralAntilles> MicroB?
Dec 07 23:59:38 <zakkm> microb takes too much
Dec 07 23:59:43 <zakkm> and the downloads like go ove reverything
Dec 07 23:59:50 <zakkm> was hoping for it to accept from a text file
Dec 07 23:59:50 <GeneralAntilles> wget?
Dec 07 23:59:55 <zakkm> my install is so screwed, wget wont install
Dec 08 00:00:09 <GeneralAntilles> maemo-mini-curl
Dec 08 00:00:11 <zakkm> whats that
Dec 08 00:00:41 <GeneralAntilles> wget alternative
Dec 08 00:01:11 <zakkm> is it gui or console based?
Dec 08 00:01:25 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: odd statistics that could be nice to have - how many % of bug reports lay in OSS components
Dec 08 00:02:03 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, console
Dec 08 00:02:10 <zakkm> is it worth using 48mhz kernel if i boot from a 4gb class 6 SDHC ?
Dec 08 00:02:24 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, coerce andre into including it in his reports. :P
Dec 08 00:02:30 <zakkm> thinking of reflashing my nokia
Dec 08 00:02:33 <zakkm> its gotten so messed
Dec 08 00:03:53 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: alright, ta. is interesting from pov of how much community "could do on their own"
Dec 08 00:03:54 <ShadowJK> microb has issues with downloading anyhow, it has a 5 sec network read timeout that it applies to downloads, so if you happen to be browsing something at the same time, or launching another app, microb might not be able to execute within that 5 second window, especially if there's some swapfile use too...
Dec 08 00:04:26 <zakkm> yeah
Dec 08 00:04:30 <zakkm> mine used to suddenly stop
Dec 08 00:04:46 <zakkm> i want to make a txt file on my pc of direct links, send txt over to nokia and use wget -c
Dec 08 00:04:46 <ShadowJK> And resume doesn't work for me after upgrading to diablo
Dec 08 00:04:52 <zakkm> and make it read from text file
Dec 08 00:05:07 <ShadowJK> (the resume bug is in bugzilla, I checked)
Dec 08 00:07:01 <zakkm> can anyone send me a guide to install 48mhz kernel please :)
Dec 08 00:12:08 <l7> why would you want a 48mhz kernel?  more battery life in exchange for less speed?
Dec 08 00:12:31 <zakkm> i thought 48mhz = faster speed?
Dec 08 00:12:39 <zakkm> i thought it was other way around
Dec 08 00:14:10 <GeneralAntilles> l7, 48MHz effectively overclocks the SD interface
Dec 08 00:14:23 <GeneralAntilles> I don't think there's an appreciable battery life impact.
Dec 08 00:14:33 <l7> ah
Dec 08 00:15:03 <zakkm> i use cloned to SD..
Dec 08 00:15:05 <zakkm> i boot off SD
Dec 08 00:15:12 <zakkm> wouldnt it help having that kernel then?
Dec 08 00:15:50 <l7> i wonder if it would be possible to release an iso or distro of maemo with all these customizations
Dec 08 00:16:02 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, the issue is less with what the community'd be able to fix and more with there being a lot of disincentive to fixing because it's A. unlikely that Nokia will even include the patch and B. we still don't have a very good idea of what Nokia's future plans are.
Dec 08 00:16:13 <GeneralAntilles> Take the Fremantle transition as it stands now
Dec 08 00:16:18 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, they could go patch city
Dec 08 00:16:26 <zakkm> release a iso
Dec 08 00:16:27 <zakkm> lol
Dec 08 00:16:29 <GeneralAntilles> but, particularly with UI stuff, we don't yet know what's going to happen
Dec 08 00:16:47 <GeneralAntilles> l7, http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_Community_distribution
Dec 08 00:16:50 <zakkm> GeneralAntilles: should i install 48mhz, ?
Dec 08 00:16:52 <l7> ah neat
Dec 08 00:16:59 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, either your card will work with it or it wont
Dec 08 00:17:03 <GeneralAntilles> I'd try it and see what happens
Dec 08 00:17:09 <zakkm> if it does work
Dec 08 00:17:13 <zakkm> is it worth it?
Dec 08 00:17:16 <zakkm> more pros than cons?
Dec 08 00:17:30 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, Nokia's current setup just plain sucks for accepting patches.
Dec 08 00:17:44 <GeneralAntilles> We're so far behind the current development with the release we get. . . .
Dec 08 00:17:56 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, cons are: your card may not be compatible
Dec 08 00:18:04 <GeneralAntilles> pros are: you may get faster speeds
Dec 08 00:18:05 <zakkm> but l7 is talking about lower battery life
Dec 08 00:18:09 <zakkm> i like my battery life
Dec 08 00:18:15 <GeneralAntilles> There's no battery life impact
Dec 08 00:18:24 <zakkm> i know, but example
Dec 08 00:19:11 <lcuk> o rly? mmm up the frequency and not effect battery life. magic
Dec 08 00:19:36 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, what I mean is: the effect on battery life is trivial
Dec 08 00:19:48 <GeneralAntilles> It's another one of those race-to-idle situations, anyway.
Dec 08 00:19:50 <lcuk> :D thatl do for me
Dec 08 00:21:33 <zakkm> where would  i find the kernel i want?
Dec 08 00:21:43 <GeneralAntilles> outpo.st/rotate
Dec 08 00:22:02 <zakkm> thanks and uhh is rotate like on and off?
Dec 08 00:22:06 <zakkm> is it easily toggable?
Dec 08 00:22:21 <GeneralAntilles> It's totally transparent if you don't use it.
Dec 08 00:22:34 <zakkm> i know but iwant to see what its like
Dec 08 00:23:49 <GeneralAntilles> There are 4 little buttons in adv-backlight.
Dec 08 00:24:04 <zakkm> You can also manually install the kernel with rotation and 48Mhz patch or one WITHOUT the 48Mhz patch, as well as the patched xserver.
Dec 08 00:24:13 <zakkm> do i do the one with 48mhz, then install patched xserver?
Dec 08 00:24:40 <robink> There were 3 android phones at the party I went to
Dec 08 00:24:53 <robink> I was the only person with a Nokia anything
Dec 08 00:28:11 <zakkm> GeneralAntilles: do i install kernel with rotation and 48mhz patch AND patched xserver
Dec 08 00:28:18 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Dec 08 00:28:53 <zakkm> do i install kernel then patched xserver?
Dec 08 00:29:08 <zakkm> sorry i screw up nokia stuff so much
Dec 08 00:29:26 <GeneralAntilles> Open the appropriate .intsall
Dec 08 00:29:35 <GeneralAntilles> then run apt-get install rotation-support-n800
Dec 08 00:29:42 <zakkm> the .install is just for rotation
Dec 08 00:29:44 <zakkm> not 48mhz?
Dec 08 00:30:43 <zakkm> unable to install kernel-flasher-diablo
Dec 08 00:31:02 <GeneralAntilles> then run apt-get install rotation-support-n800
Dec 08 00:31:56 <disco_stu> zakkm: i installed that thing and the 48mhz didnt come i guess
Dec 08 00:32:10 <zakkm> i want 48mhz
Dec 08 00:32:35 <GeneralAntilles> Then download and flash the 48MHz kernel when you're done.
Dec 08 00:32:40 <GeneralAntilles> ~flasher
Dec 08 00:32:41 <infobot> well, flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher
Dec 08 00:33:43 <zakkm> think i should reclone to SD
Dec 08 00:33:45 <zakkm> from internal
Dec 08 00:33:50 <zakkm> and then do everything from beginning
Dec 08 00:33:51 <zakkm> nice and clean
Dec 08 00:36:43 <disco_stu> i want to install kde in my other card now
Dec 08 00:37:12 <disco_stu> but it seems the installer will use internal
Dec 08 00:53:57 <lcuk> :( a sad sad day.   http://othernews.uk.myway.com/article//20081208/A9763401228595967A00.html   good job im too poorly to want any
Dec 08 00:55:16 <zakkm> :(
Dec 08 01:02:03 <disco_stu> zakkm: whats up dude
Dec 08 01:02:17 <zakkm> trying to install 48mhz kernel
Dec 08 01:02:20 <zakkm> having no success
Dec 08 01:02:45 <disco_stu> i wanna try kde
Dec 08 01:02:55 <zakkm> whats stopping you??
Dec 08 01:03:30 <disco_stu> the thing is the installer "installs it" to the sd where you are booting
Dec 08 01:03:37 <disco_stu> i want to install in the other
Dec 08 01:04:34 <zakkm> switch sd card slots, and run the installer from flash?
Dec 08 01:05:23 <disco_stu> no, the installer will always install to where you are bootin from
Dec 08 01:06:11 <zakkm> thats a bad installer
Dec 08 01:06:14 <zakkm> ;p
Dec 08 01:06:34 <disco_stu> yeah
Dec 08 01:06:45 <l7> you could clone your boot partition
Dec 08 01:06:54 <lcuk> cant you boot into it and then install
Dec 08 01:07:07 <lcuk> so then it would know where you are
Dec 08 01:08:07 <disco_stu> i've already clonned
Dec 08 01:08:23 <disco_stu> but i want kde in the other card
Dec 08 01:22:39 <GeneralAntilles> Why do people insist on putting their replies ABOVE the quoted text on itT?
Dec 08 01:22:54 <GeneralAntilles> I mean, it's one thing in email where most clients position your cursor there anyway
Dec 08 01:23:17 <GeneralAntilles> but you have to ACTIVELY reposition the quote block and your cursor to reply above the quoted text in forums. <_<
Dec 08 01:25:27 <lcuk> gan i think its because of the default tiny little edit window - i know it can be made bigger but the setting is not persistant
Dec 08 01:25:40 <GeneralAntilles> You need a real browser. ;)
Dec 08 01:25:53 <GeneralAntilles> I can resize the text boxes in mine.
Dec 08 01:26:03 <lcuk> i can in itt
Dec 08 01:26:13 <lcuk> but the default is too small
Dec 08 01:26:28 * GeneralAntilles doesn't have a problem with it.
Dec 08 01:26:30 <lcuk> and your real browser, where does it store this data
Dec 08 01:26:43 <GeneralAntilles> It doesn't store it
Dec 08 01:26:53 <GeneralAntilles> You just drag a little tab in the bottom right corner to resize the box
Dec 08 01:26:55 <lcuk> so you have to resize every time you use it
Dec 08 01:26:56 <GeneralAntilles> Just like any window
Dec 08 01:27:08 <GeneralAntilles> Meh, 90% of the time I don't
Dec 08 01:27:11 <GeneralAntilles> Because it's really plenty of space
Dec 08 01:27:14 <lcuk> on itt tin the top right theres clickers for bigger smaller
Dec 08 01:27:20 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I know.
Dec 08 01:27:26 <GeneralAntilles> Either way, I don't really buy that argument.
Dec 08 01:27:38 <GeneralAntilles> It automatically places your cursor in the right place
Dec 08 01:28:05 <lcuk> tis personal observation - tbh most of the time a full block quote of the previous comment is not required anyway
Dec 08 01:28:27 <GeneralAntilles> Well, yeah, that's the other place they tend to fail.
Dec 08 01:28:33 <GeneralAntilles> But one issue at a time. ;)
Dec 08 01:28:37 <lcuk> heh yeah
Dec 08 01:29:09 <lcuk> i cant shake this horrid head and bleugh feeling, had a big brazilian meal last night and ive suffered all day
Dec 08 01:29:13 <lcuk> im off back to bed
Dec 08 01:30:45 <pupnik> cheers lcuk
Dec 08 01:31:10 <lcuk> cheers?
Dec 08 01:32:49 <pupnik> well good rest then
Dec 08 01:33:03 <lcuk> yeah dude, catch up with you another time
Dec 08 01:33:28 <pupnik> <- makes some rice and turkey breast and stir-fry vegetables
Dec 08 01:42:35 <bef0rd> hola
Dec 08 01:49:41 <zakkm> how come i cant install kernel-diablo-flasher on nokia?
Dec 08 01:49:47 <zakkm> the deb package
Dec 08 01:58:27 <zakkm> what does Failed writing body mean
Dec 08 01:58:37 <zakkm> im trying to do rotation from maemo-mini-curl
Dec 08 02:00:15 <bef0rd> maybe not enough free space to save the files
Dec 08 02:00:47 <zakkm> got cnflict problem now
Dec 08 02:15:46 <zakkm> could anyone help me get 48mhz kernel?
Dec 08 02:22:15 <zakkm> is it safe to uninstall osso-software-version-rx34
Dec 08 02:23:21 <bef0rd> I *think* so, but that will leave you without SSU updates
Dec 08 02:24:17 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, jott's package installs everything you need. . . .
Dec 08 02:24:19 <bef0rd> There is a package provided by jott that replaces it, and let you do whatever you were trying to do, and it also let you uses SSU
Dec 08 02:25:02 <zakkm> jott's package?
Dec 08 02:25:05 <GeneralAntilles> http://outpo.st/rotate/kernel-diablo-flasher_2.6.21-200835maemo1rotationfast_all.deb
Dec 08 02:25:13 <zakkm> it wont let me install that
Dec 08 02:25:40 <zakkm> i dont need ssu updates?
Dec 08 02:25:45 <GeneralAntilles> Did you apt-get install rotation-support-n800 like I told you to?
Dec 08 02:25:49 <zakkm> yeah
Dec 08 02:25:55 <zakkm> bui get the flash and reboot
Dec 08 02:25:56 <zakkm> thingy
Dec 08 02:25:58 <zakkm> reading blog now
Dec 08 02:26:00 <zakkm> ahh itt
Dec 08 02:26:07 <zakkm> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22099
Dec 08 02:27:05 <zakkm> i think im good now :)
Dec 08 02:28:16 <zakkm> GeneralAntilles: i did clone to sd again like 30min ago, and hildon desktop still takes 24mb according to load-applet
Dec 08 02:28:31 <zakkm> "unable to install kernel-diablo-flasher. incompatible application package."
Dec 08 02:29:43 <zakkm> reading and flashing kernel image, image sucessfully flashed
Dec 08 02:41:05 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, good times: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=247685#post247685
Dec 08 02:41:12 <GeneralAntilles> "jargon and developing"
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 08 02:59:57 2008