**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 10 02:59:57 2008 Dec 10 03:24:02 There's a new Personal Menu in extras-devel Dec 10 03:26:52 If anyone finds any problems, let me know Dec 10 03:59:03 GeneralAntilles, pong (though I got to sleep soon) Dec 10 03:59:14 andre__, I was gonna ask where to file #3922 Dec 10 03:59:14 sleep is for the week Dec 10 03:59:17 sleep is for the weak Dec 10 03:59:31 But I just stuck it in SDK general Dec 10 03:59:35 Sleeping all week sounds good to me. Dec 10 03:59:42 sleep? overestimated Dec 10 04:00:04 *shrug* Dec 10 04:00:05 dunnp Dec 10 04:00:14 Quim'll take care of it anyway. Dec 10 04:00:20 s/estimated/rated/ Dec 10 04:00:42 right :) Dec 10 04:01:04 (don't expect me to speak proper english when i just got home from the club 5 min ago and am a bit drunk) Dec 10 04:01:59 Oh we'll expect it alright Dec 10 04:02:05 and you should expect lashings if you fail. :P Dec 10 04:02:55 yay Dec 10 04:03:04 i'll take a video fo that Dec 10 04:06:50 sleep. tomorrow. Dec 10 04:09:06 'night Dec 10 04:12:33 GeneralAntilles: whats up Dec 10 04:12:38 im bored Dec 10 04:13:08 I'm playing CoD4 Dec 10 04:13:20 i play css Dec 10 04:13:52 ill go to bed Dec 10 04:13:56 n8 all Dec 10 04:23:25 I don't understand this blanking out the osso-xterm is doing on attempts to install the bootmenu.deb Dec 10 04:24:47 goes white has to be x'ed ouy Dec 10 04:24:49 out Dec 10 05:08:05 is there a place to talk about the N95? Dec 10 05:19:17 Probably not on Freenode Dec 10 05:19:37 Maybe #symbian? Dec 10 05:24:26 oh Dec 10 05:24:30 is that the OS? Dec 10 05:24:54 Symbian is something else than Linux right? Dec 10 05:25:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbian Dec 10 05:25:56 I just got the N95 ... its pretty sweet ... but I wish it was Linux :) Dec 10 05:54:04 did links disappear from the extras repo? Dec 10 05:59:04 yeah, i have been thinking of getting a Symbian phone Dec 10 05:59:28 dunno if i really like the Symbian environment though Dec 10 05:59:42 it does have a lot of apps, but i would like access to linux tools Dec 10 05:59:58 True Story? Middle-School teacher siezes linux disks from kid. http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html Dec 10 06:22:23 someone needs to get the guys from the Linux Action Show to intervene Dec 10 06:24:59 Mr. Starks, I along with many others tried Linux during college and I assure you, the claims you make are grossly over-stated and hinge on falsehoods. I admire your attempts in getting computers in the hands of disadvantaged people but putting linux on these machines is holding our kids back. Dec 10 06:25:14 sounds a bit too silly to be real though Dec 10 06:51:39 ls Dec 10 06:53:56 IRC: ls: command not found Dec 10 06:57:31 heh Dec 10 06:58:25 speaking of shells, i noticed that bash-setup disabled the ctrl-l clear screen feature Dec 10 08:41:32 mmm lxde now available Dec 10 08:41:44 for mer/ubuntu Dec 10 08:57:18 Morning Dec 10 09:00:48 Has anybody any idea why my N810 restarts if I try to use certain USB-device with it Dec 10 09:04:14 kernel bug? Dec 10 09:04:16 :> Dec 10 09:04:32 and then watchdog kicks it around Dec 10 09:08:06 moo all Dec 10 09:08:19 Well...that would be pretty dramatic...I don't know...maybe...Any good ways to trace this kiond of fault Dec 10 09:09:35 what kind of usb devices? Dec 10 09:09:54 MP3 players... Dec 10 09:10:12 aka usb storage? Dec 10 09:10:24 probabbly tried to draw too much power Dec 10 09:10:30 do yoz have a powered hub? Dec 10 09:10:34 *you Dec 10 09:10:37 Especially if they charge through USB Dec 10 09:11:00 but then, the device shouldn't crash Dec 10 09:11:12 Yeh...I have powered hub and storage feature is disabled with both players Dec 10 09:11:21 hmm Dec 10 09:11:40 so what should they look like to n810 Dec 10 09:11:52 w/o any usb storage? :> Dec 10 09:12:09 probably the camera windoze protocol Dec 10 09:12:45 The main idea is to to try get these work with our app which uses MTP. Dec 10 09:13:28 mhm Dec 10 09:13:32 But I have now strugled with this for a while and I have noticed that tabled might crash only using "lsmod" commmand Dec 10 09:13:56 still, 99% it's a kernel bug... never seen any like it Dec 10 09:14:06 is the usb in host mode or otg? Dec 10 09:14:27 host mode... Dec 10 09:14:43 hm Dec 10 09:15:06 AStorm: I installed that OE SDK yesterday Dec 10 09:15:19 AStorm: No X11 in sight (DirectFB only). Still 1GB+ in size Dec 10 09:15:30 ouch Dec 10 09:15:43 du -hs * and follow Dec 10 09:15:52 yea, that is what I wanna do Dec 10 09:15:53 find the culprit Dec 10 09:16:03 and bash them to hell Dec 10 09:16:54 At first I though that it was because libmtp but it must be related to usb-functionality of linux, because only inspecting of the USB causes the crash Dec 10 09:17:27 kernel bug, again Dec 10 09:17:42 grab syslog and throw it over usbnet to some other machine Dec 10 09:17:50 might catch the oops Dec 10 09:20:18 OK...I just wonder might it be because devices doesn't support (disabled) storeage feature...when I attach the device, maemo says that "unable to connect, no file system available" Dec 10 09:20:42 heh Dec 10 09:20:54 it shouldn't crash anyway Dec 10 09:21:09 that's true also ;-) Dec 10 09:23:04 ok..."grap syslog"...meaning....? Dec 10 09:28:38 Do you mean "dmesg"? that's one I have been monitored..../var/log folder is empty Dec 10 09:30:31 Norrit_: You need to install syslog first. Dec 10 09:30:58 Ou...ok... Dec 10 09:41:57 Morning, all Dec 10 09:52:31 http://exiledonline.com/america-home-of-the-free-land-of-the-armed/ Dec 10 10:07:50 Matchbox-kb s good enough while h-i-m is not working yet Dec 10 10:08:30 http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer# Dec 10 10:10:18 Meiz_n810: Heh, massive amount of keys :) Dec 10 10:11:54 Meiz: Can this be backported to vanilla Maemo? Dec 10 10:13:11 * aquatix notices midori Dec 10 10:36:34 hi Dec 10 10:36:41 hello Dec 10 10:41:37 RST28h: maybe: souce is alailable Dec 10 10:41:47 it's moblin-keyboard-manager Dec 10 10:46:24 ah Dec 10 10:50:27 http://www.unwiredview.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/vertu-boucheron-150-1.jpg Dec 10 10:51:08 Who buys those, anyway? Dec 10 10:51:22 someone with lot of money Dec 10 10:51:34 and no taste whatsoever? Dec 10 10:51:44 well yeah Dec 10 10:51:49 i'd buy one as a joke if i had zillions Dec 10 10:51:57 and then treat it like a shitter Dec 10 10:52:02 would you...mmm...use it? Dec 10 10:52:22 well yeah, for hammering nails and stuff and maybe for answering Dec 10 10:52:40 dunno if it's good for sniffing coke Dec 10 10:54:37 not good for hammering nails as the gold is a rather soft metal Dec 10 10:54:55 coke - yes, maybe, wonder if it has got a special compartment for it =) Dec 10 11:08:37 AStrom: I found a bug (3281) which is VERY similar to mine...I have to read the conversation of that bug if theres some help.... Dec 10 11:09:39 * Stskeeps ponders why his work n800 won't charge Dec 10 11:13:04 lo johnx Dec 10 11:13:26 managed to get some inet access Dec 10 11:14:04 morning Dec 10 11:14:13 you doing alright then johnx? Dec 10 11:14:37 on my n800 though... Dec 10 11:15:00 yeah, doing fine :) Dec 10 11:15:01 he johnx Dec 10 11:15:47 got some catching up to do it seems Dec 10 11:15:57 sure enough Dec 10 11:16:24 want a short summary? Dec 10 11:18:31 i'll rtfm ;) Dec 10 11:18:36 hehe, alright Dec 10 11:19:18 unless you have info that's not commonly available. then i'd love to hear it :D Dec 10 11:19:24 Maemo 5 Reveals its Features, is pretty interesting, and the announcement of pre-alpha Dec 10 11:19:42 and that nokia is not going to have fremantle on n8x0, but they will support the community in efforts of backporting Dec 10 11:20:00 and relicensing for needed components Dec 10 11:20:16 so we're basically stumbling to organize Mer as a real project now Dec 10 11:20:36 meiz has been playing with Mer and has some nice scrshots up :P Dec 10 11:21:17 and solca has a interesting kexec experiment going, and 2.6.28-rc6 Dec 10 11:27:11 gah. i'm really missing out. :/ Dec 10 11:27:30 hehe, not really, it came like a firestorm all of this monday Dec 10 11:27:41 i was nearly going insane Dec 10 11:28:36 johnx: Jaunty based Mer: http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer# Dec 10 11:28:39 =P Dec 10 11:29:10 I have tried to get wlan working with deblet packages... no luck Dec 10 11:30:07 so what is mer now? Dec 10 11:30:14 a subset of maemo? Dec 10 11:30:16 woglinde: heck if i know :P Dec 10 11:30:22 Meiz_n810, any luck doing it manually or the debian way? Dec 10 11:30:46 woglinde: my goal for mer is the "maemo reconstructed" proposal really, with fremantle components Dec 10 11:31:04 woglinde, i used to know last thursday ;p Dec 10 11:31:05 stskeep ah okay Dec 10 11:31:07 just maintaining some half-broken image patching isn't my cup of tea, so :P Dec 10 11:31:11 morning Dec 10 11:31:23 johnx: i tried everything i can, but wlan-cal always fails... Dec 10 11:31:26 hi Dec 10 11:31:55 Meiz, you don't need it, strictly speaking Dec 10 11:31:57 Meiz_n810: that kb, last screenshot, must be painful to use! Dec 10 11:32:17 as you can see there are many choises Dec 10 11:32:27 thats the most painful Dec 10 11:32:32 in the pic Dec 10 11:32:50 can we implement the Nokia methods? Or is that not wanteD? Dec 10 11:32:54 s/D/d Dec 10 11:33:01 lardman: we can get h-i-m example atlast Dec 10 11:33:10 good Dec 10 11:33:15 but there's going to be a long discussion on this probably Dec 10 11:33:30 and it's in degrees of importance Dec 10 11:34:07 of course, if someone's interested in it they can always start the implementation, etc Dec 10 11:34:18 yeah.. Dec 10 11:34:38 i'm really wondering what kind of agreement can be reached with nokia Dec 10 11:35:51 for instance, mer arch would have great use of a "sponsor some hours to do " Dec 10 11:35:54 Stskeeps: how so? Dec 10 11:36:09 us asking them you mean? Dec 10 11:36:11 yeah Dec 10 11:36:23 they will do it I'm quite sure, as long as we have a reason for wanting it Dec 10 11:36:26 sec, going to go grab a cup of coffee Dec 10 11:40:35 basically, we should strive towards being able to provide flashable images. Dec 10 11:40:42 yes Dec 10 11:40:43 and redistribute them Dec 10 11:40:45 yes Dec 10 11:41:00 right now we can't take initfs and redistribute it, for instance. Dec 10 11:41:05 or alter it that well Dec 10 11:41:21 right, can we list the items that are problematic on the wiki then Dec 10 11:41:34 then Quim can see them more easily and address them Dec 10 11:41:45 http://rafb.net/p/zzJAoB73.html Dec 10 11:41:52 is my sketch so far of initial task list for Mer arch Dec 10 11:42:01 yesterdat I heard something about images too (like pngs)? Dec 10 11:42:23 yeah.. if we don't find a creative bunch in the community Dec 10 11:42:27 it should be possible though Dec 10 11:42:52 the things i've listed are needed for HW interfacing Dec 10 11:42:53 well that's another thing to list on the wiki then, see what the reaction is; if possible we can use them as a stop gap until someone creative decides they want something else, etc Dec 10 11:43:07 *nod* Dec 10 11:43:09 Stskeeps: have you started a Garage project then? Dec 10 11:43:13 not yet Dec 10 11:43:20 it's depending on the other sketch i have Dec 10 11:43:25 it'll be multiple garage projects Dec 10 11:43:33 one for Mer Arch, one for Mer UI, etc Dec 10 11:43:40 ah yes, I saw that Dec 10 11:43:52 I don't know either way Dec 10 11:43:55 and that depends on git.maemo going into action with some things, so :P Dec 10 11:44:12 what's the problem with git then? Not up yet? Dec 10 11:44:21 not up yet and i need some confirmations of features Dec 10 11:44:30 have you pinged X-Fade? Dec 10 11:44:32 it's coming, however Dec 10 11:44:46 lardman: Ferenc is working on it.. Dec 10 11:44:48 Not me ;) Dec 10 11:44:49 well, i put it on the talk page for now :) Dec 10 11:45:10 X-Fade: ok, sorry for waking you up unnecessarily ;) Dec 10 11:45:19 Stskeeps: ok Dec 10 11:45:43 lardman: for "arch" we need some kind of agreement to be able to redistribute, and a future proof way of getting updated binaries matching the toolchains Dec 10 11:46:05 Stskeeps: say what needs to be redistributed first though Dec 10 11:46:08 yeah Dec 10 11:46:35 Stskeeps: future-proof is hard I imagine, but Quim should be able to sort out a way of getting the binaries created for us, a contact or the like Dec 10 11:47:21 *nod* Dec 10 11:47:21 so we have no images to download atm? Dec 10 11:47:36 * lardman was after an image without needing to setup the builder stuff Dec 10 11:47:37 atm i don't even have any non-OSS stuff in mer :P Dec 10 11:47:47 so i can make you a tar.gz if you'd like Dec 10 11:47:51 ah, so just a rootfs then? Dec 10 11:47:54 yeah Dec 10 11:47:59 with EABI, I think current binaries will work for a very long time Dec 10 11:48:06 does the builder create a jffs2 image? Dec 10 11:48:06 tc-wise, atleast Dec 10 11:48:16 suihkulokki: yep Dec 10 11:48:19 lardman: for now, just debootstraps+stuff onto a partition Dec 10 11:48:22 the kernel interfaces can and will change, any binary depending on those will break Dec 10 11:48:51 I think Nokia were going to open source their image builder weren't they, that will be useful Dec 10 11:49:20 i think it's really among the same lines as our current builder really Dec 10 11:49:32 same process Dec 10 11:49:36 I was thinking of the FIASCO creation Dec 10 11:49:38 ah Dec 10 11:49:39 yes Dec 10 11:49:40 that would be useful Dec 10 11:49:44 or at least a flashable rootfs, etc Dec 10 11:50:03 for 2.6.28 kernel it would probably be useful to use ubifs :P Dec 10 11:50:36 yeah, well it looks like Fremantle will use that anyway, so we may as well follow suite Dec 10 11:50:43 s/suite/suit Dec 10 11:52:37 partitioning layout in flash could be useful to have info on too Dec 10 11:53:22 again, we'll need to stick it on a page with some justification and see what comes Dec 10 11:53:37 yep Dec 10 11:53:45 and that's what mer arch would start with as a group Dec 10 11:54:31 * Stskeeps wonders if 770 bme and n8x0 one is similar .. :P Dec 10 11:55:03 hmm, no idea Dec 10 11:55:28 which wiki page would be the best to list these questions then? The Mer one? Dec 10 11:56:18 i think we'll sit and and discuss at the bootstrap meeting - my idea is that we use maemo.org wiki, and then each team deals with their issues through that :P Dec 10 11:56:33 and a list of questions to be "sent" to nokia with reasoning Dec 10 11:56:33 yes Dec 10 11:56:52 they don't really need to be sent Dec 10 11:57:08 I imagine they are looking to see how we get along Dec 10 11:57:12 yep Dec 10 11:57:18 and organization right now is bloody important :P Dec 10 11:57:18 when's the meeting then? Dec 10 11:57:23 yes indeed Dec 10 11:57:33 i -think- GA was aiming for sunday Dec 10 11:57:41 just a minor bootstrapping meeting Dec 10 11:57:46 ok, I should be able to make that Dec 10 11:58:04 my gf is home next sunday and i think she'd strangle me if i spent too much time on the computer.. Dec 10 11:58:10 lol Dec 10 11:58:23 * GeneralAntilles yawns loudly. Dec 10 11:58:27 i'll be there by hook or by crook Dec 10 11:58:27 morning GA Dec 10 11:58:35 Multi-car accident outside is a fun alarm clock. Dec 10 11:58:35 I'd still like to see the discussion and progress reports moved to the mailing list, lots of people don't use irc and itt Dec 10 11:59:04 Do we want to set a time so I can schedule a maemo.org event? Dec 10 11:59:13 evening european time? Dec 10 11:59:15 I was only vaguely aware of the project until the pre-sdk stuff came up and thought of getting it going on the omap2 Dec 10 11:59:32 lardman: well it did go a lot faster than expected suddenly :P Dec 10 12:00:08 Stskeeps: my problem was more the confusion over the goal, I completely ignored the deblet stuff as I didn't want to replace Maemo with Debian Dec 10 12:00:14 *nod* Dec 10 12:00:29 20:00 - 22:00 UTC? Dec 10 12:00:32 Earlier? Dec 10 12:00:43 Stskeeps: but once I knew about the sdk release I started looking at Mer as a base, and found that your goals were reasonably aligned anyway Dec 10 12:00:51 GeneralAntilles: fine for me Dec 10 12:01:05 * Stskeeps prods johnx and wonders if he's awake at that point Dec 10 12:01:11 lardman, originally the whole "Maemo Reconstructed" deal as a PoC to push Nokia towards better upstream alignment Dec 10 12:01:41 GeneralAntilles: the separation between Maemo Reconstructed/Mer/deblet is confusing Dec 10 12:01:47 yeah :P Dec 10 12:01:51 Now, seemingly, additional hardware platform support for Fremantle and/or Diablo-on-steroids Dec 10 12:01:59 lardman, OK, toss out Deblet. Dec 10 12:02:16 Maemo Reconstructed -> Mer Dec 10 12:02:22 stskeeps, should be fine. my schedule is adjusted to normal local time right now ;) Dec 10 12:02:23 Is how the evolution went Dec 10 12:02:25 GeneralAntilles: Well I know now, but imagine the case for those who don't have the time to investigate, etc., mailing list would be good Dec 10 12:02:32 johnx: hehe Dec 10 12:02:44 OK, 20:00-22:00 UTC it is. Dec 10 12:02:55 *puts in calendar* Dec 10 12:03:19 Mr. Starks, I am sure you strongly believe in what you are doing but I cannot either support your efforts or allow them to happen in my classroom. At this point, I am not sure what you are doing is legal. No software is free and spreading that misconception is harmful. ... This is a world where Windows runs on virtually every computer and putting on a carnival show for an operating system is not helping these children at all. Dec 10 12:03:40 Priceless. Dec 10 12:03:57 Stskeeps, "Mer bootstrapping meeting" ? :P Dec 10 12:04:11 GeneralAntilles: yeah, Mer Project bootstrapping meeting :P Dec 10 12:04:17 or something Dec 10 12:04:18 RST38h: whoa :) Dec 10 12:04:34 Stskeeps, which page do you want me to link to for "Mer" Dec 10 12:05:29 GeneralAntilles: mm. that's a good question. Dec 10 12:06:06 i think Maemo reconstructed and the blueprint for now, those cover the most Dec 10 12:06:13 but the meeting is really to figure out what our goals are Dec 10 12:06:17 has anyone heard from etrunko, he was interested in getting Fremantle up on the N8x0 Dec 10 12:06:40 did they include a much newer libhildon1 than the one in trunk or am i just behind the times? Dec 10 12:06:47 johnx: yup Dec 10 12:06:50 i was caught by surprise too Dec 10 12:06:58 well, not so much, i knew hildon was old in trunk Dec 10 12:07:07 it didn't have pannable area Dec 10 12:07:14 heh, development in the open ;p Dec 10 12:07:25 :) Dec 10 12:09:08 but. Mer is not an effort to upgrade Diablo (the OS) to Fremantle, or take the fremantle OS and backporting it so it works for n8x0. it's a shift in perspective where we put the tablet OS in the hands of the community, and include nokia&contractors provided OSS components as part of this OS Dec 10 12:09:12 moo johnx, aquatix Dec 10 12:09:35 Sts: Could you use a term more specific than "shift in perspective" Dec 10 12:09:44 RST38h: the whole maemo reconstructed thing Dec 10 12:09:48 paradigm shift! :P Dec 10 12:09:57 m00f Dec 10 12:09:59 I mean, the dreaded "paradigm" word has not been used, but we are getting close =) Dec 10 12:10:02 Oh shit Dec 10 12:10:09 Not it has been used. Dec 10 12:10:13 * GeneralAntilles had to do it. Dec 10 12:10:14 s/Not/Now/ Dec 10 12:10:14 RST38h meant: Now it has been used. Dec 10 12:10:17 the important question is app compat? Dec 10 12:10:22 lardman: so far good Dec 10 12:10:31 having maemo GTK and libhildon helps a lot Dec 10 12:10:46 lardman, so far better :D Dec 10 12:10:58 Sts: I would put it in plain, human readable English Dec 10 12:11:22 "A short, informal discussion meeting will be held in #maemo-meeting on Freenode to discuss the organization and goals of the Mer Project (the continuation of Maemo Reconstructed)." Dec 10 12:11:27 nokia's hildon ui on ubuntu, trimmed for mobile devices Dec 10 12:11:27 Sts: What you want to achieve. Without using words like perspective, paradigm, solution, choice, etc Dec 10 12:11:31 Little thin on content, anything to add? Dec 10 12:11:34 I mean if Mer breaks compatibility with one or other release of the Maemo core, then it's just another distro for the tablets Dec 10 12:12:01 lardman: some things are different deep down, but API wise, we want to stay close to the maemo platform Dec 10 12:12:11 yes, that's the main point Dec 10 12:12:34 and yes, it's "another distro", but so would a community edition of diablo be :P Dec 10 12:12:43 lardman, the current diablo-level of mer is almost completely compatible with diablo at a source level Dec 10 12:12:48 otherwise I may as well flash a GPE image, do some hacking to get the desktop applets working with the battery stuff (easy enough) and dyntick, and I have somethjing usable, and pretty soon too Dec 10 12:13:38 Sts: "Another tablet fdistro that is based on the official Nokia Maemo but seeks to improve parts that Nokia isn't willing to improve" Dec 10 12:13:49 lardman, would you really prefer gpe over hildon? Dec 10 12:13:56 Sts: And next you put a list of parts that you seek improving Dec 10 12:14:02 really if the packages released for Fremantle could be installed (e.g. the comms stuff, the browser backend, etc.) then people will benefit on the N8x0/770 from the Fremantle changes Dec 10 12:14:26 lardman: so far it's a matter of compiling it Dec 10 12:14:31 johnx: no, but if there's no compat, so I can't install Maemo packages, then I'm in the same boat pretty much Dec 10 12:14:42 RST38h, it's closer to what i said above Dec 10 12:14:54 johnx: yep Dec 10 12:15:32 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer2.txt (slightly edited from maemo reconstructed) Dec 10 12:15:39 "Nokia isn't willing to improve" is emotive. Dec 10 12:15:48 Ah, it is priceless indeed: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html Dec 10 12:15:55 "Nokia isn't currently focused on improving" would be better and more constructive. Dec 10 12:15:58 Jaffa: What is wrong with emotive language again? Dec 10 12:16:16 lardman, the big thing for me is remaining compatible with 3rd party apps and we have source for those Dec 10 12:16:16 and who knows, maybe Mer would be maemo 6. :P Dec 10 12:16:26 Maemo 666! Dec 10 12:16:41 (that url was for RST38h) Dec 10 12:17:02 I guess my stance this this: I'd like to bring what features of Fremantle we can to the omap1/2 devices, which is perhaps the ui, but mainly the middleware (comms stuff, location stuff, etc.); the low level implementation details are perhaps not so important, though I would like to see us adopting a similar track to the maemo devs (though not if there's something better out there) Dec 10 12:17:08 RST38h: because a) Nokia are increasing efforts; b) Mer is supposed to be a blueprint of increased upstream alignment for Maemo; which means you want Nokia buy-in. Dec 10 12:17:11 Sts: Checking Dec 10 12:17:24 Jaffa: Ok, bought it Dec 10 12:18:12 lardman: mer would be "similar" in style to maemo mostly, targetting power saving measures, low footprint, etc Dec 10 12:18:31 and mer and nokia components would complement eachother Dec 10 12:18:35 Sts: Is making Maemo a general platform the main goaL? Dec 10 12:19:19 RST38h: it will help having this, to encourage use of platform on other devices - meaning more hands to work on it, and that we don't have to revamp the platform each time we get a new fancy device Dec 10 12:19:25 and having to leave some devices behind Dec 10 12:19:34 StsL If it is not the main goal, move it down Dec 10 12:19:36 RST38h, yes, and improving it and making it more maintainable in the process Dec 10 12:20:02 johnx: Is improving it more important than making it available on non-nokia devices? Dec 10 12:20:16 johnx: If so, move improvement up, push compatibility down Dec 10 12:20:39 johnx: Also, it generally makes sense to move smaller, easier attainable goals up Dec 10 12:21:16 RST38h, do you see a technical problem i don't that makes those things incompatible? Dec 10 12:22:02 RST38h: the goals intermix, and the text is primarily just the ideal properties of the Mer platform Dec 10 12:22:58 Stskeeps: sounds reasonable to me, I'm still in ;) Dec 10 12:23:18 the short term goals and long term goals will be discussed on the bootstrap meeting i guess Dec 10 12:23:33 right now the focus is, generality, and ensuring a future for n8x0y tablets Dec 10 12:23:56 and working out a relationship to nokia Dec 10 12:24:04 * johnx needs to get faster at irc on his n800 Dec 10 12:24:18 johnx: i'm dead slow too :P Dec 10 12:24:22 johnx: get a keyboard? ;) Dec 10 12:25:03 johnx: Yes, there is a slight problem: the English text flow is on-dimensional so you have to put them in some order no matter what :) Dec 10 12:25:09 i think i can get a little faster with the thumboard if i train its dictionaries Dec 10 12:25:36 Sts: Although goals intermix, you are still forced to prioritize when putting them down on paper Dec 10 12:25:51 long term goals could be: general mobile device platform, foundation for nokia-maemo 6.0, not getting screwed over by nokia/whatever company leaving old devices behind and focus on new ones :P Dec 10 12:25:53 RST38h, maybe we should improve the english language as a part of the project then Dec 10 12:26:04 RST38h: you just volunteered for public relations Dec 10 12:26:04 :P Dec 10 12:26:12 johnx: See my comment above about smaller, attainable goals :) Dec 10 12:26:22 Sts: What is the salary? =) Dec 10 12:26:29 hehe. Dec 10 12:26:43 Sts: Ok, I will rewrite this blurb but not right now: I am at a meeting Dec 10 12:26:47 k Dec 10 12:26:58 RST38h, and sometimes you have to do the big ones first Dec 10 12:27:45 johnx: usually leads to a failure Dec 10 12:28:01 sometimes you may get lucky though Dec 10 12:28:02 Stskeeps: I'm also happy to do public relations, and obviously negotiations with Nokia (doing something in my Council role for once ;)) Dec 10 12:28:13 eep. running out of battery ;/ Dec 10 12:28:30 eep Dec 10 12:28:54 i'll try and be back tomorrow sometime Dec 10 12:29:03 alright, good to see you're back in shape :) Dec 10 12:29:05 'night all Dec 10 12:29:10 bye johnx Dec 10 12:32:15 Stskeeps, is that blurb for the meeting good for you? Dec 10 12:32:32 GeneralAntilles: yes Dec 10 12:40:01 "Yahoo! eyes! sarin!" (C)TheRegister Dec 10 12:40:18 Radical methods of personnel management Dec 10 12:40:29 rst where? Dec 10 12:44:41 woglinde: www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/10/yahoo_sarin/ Dec 10 12:51:16 Freaky damn tiger beetle Dec 10 12:51:41 Evil little bastards'll watch you. Dec 10 12:52:06 lardman: got a better name than working group? :P Dec 10 12:52:35 commitee? Dec 10 12:52:49 General: looks cute Dec 10 12:53:01 steering committee :) Dec 10 12:53:08 RST38h, unlike most insects, these guys will look you right in the eye. Dec 10 12:53:22 committee has bad conotations though Dec 10 12:53:28 what, comrade? Dec 10 12:53:28 :P Dec 10 12:53:34 Hehe Dec 10 12:53:54 Mer steering (steering through the ocean.. :P) Dec 10 12:54:08 Mer taskmasters Dec 10 12:54:16 we could call it the "bridge" Dec 10 12:54:18 hehe Dec 10 12:54:36 The Night Watch Dec 10 12:54:40 ~remove-xterm-scrollbar Dec 10 12:54:41 i guess remove-xterm-scrollbar is "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" Dec 10 12:54:43 [and give 'em baseball bats] Dec 10 12:55:07 ~remove-osso-scrollbar Dec 10 12:56:25 * GeneralAntilles misses _Monkey Dec 10 12:57:25 Hello! Does anyone know if it is possible to use cairo with python in maemo? widget.window.cairo_create() fails for me. Dec 10 12:57:44 (in gtk, that is) Dec 10 13:04:20 Sts: Still here? Dec 10 13:04:32 yeah, writing up on the new blueprint Dec 10 13:04:34 Sts: http://fms.komkon.org/Maemo/mer.txt Dec 10 13:04:49 Sts: Use it as you see fit. Let me know when you get it so that I can delete it Dec 10 13:06:19 can i revise the developing parts of maemo to something that involves developing parts that community has interest in giving attention to? :P Dec 10 13:08:00 *Developing parts of Maemo that has the interest of the community to improve upon. or soemthing Dec 10 13:08:40 because in-house developers may want to improve but it's contradictatory to the business model Dec 10 13:12:06 (and i've used it and gotten it now) Dec 10 13:27:33 ok, people interested in Mer architecture (that is: kernel, initfs, hw interfacing, drivers, builders), please see https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New#Mer_Architecture and give me some quick feedback Dec 10 13:28:05 if that is anything they'd like to contribute to, and if the initial activities seem reasonable and merge into current community efforts Dec 10 13:28:18 in that area Dec 10 13:35:47 lardman: saw http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New#Mer_Architecture Dec 10 13:35:48 ? Dec 10 13:36:07 I think so, looking again Dec 10 13:36:15 k Dec 10 13:36:24 this is the more specific one, not a direct sketch Dec 10 13:36:40 looks good Dec 10 13:37:04 we should obtain a feed somewhere too Dec 10 13:37:24 mm? Dec 10 13:37:53 if things are to be built, we should place them in a feed, not everyone should have to build their entire system from source Dec 10 13:38:02 yeah, ofcourse Dec 10 13:38:47 that's quite important to get people involved I'd thing Dec 10 13:38:49 think Dec 10 13:39:07 it'd be a mix of firmware images, and repository, probably Dec 10 13:39:14 yep Dec 10 13:39:22 but certainly somewhere to host it all Dec 10 13:39:25 yep Dec 10 13:40:20 hmm, anyone have the link for the code sourcery gcc 4.x.x toolchain? Dec 10 13:40:25 sec Dec 10 13:40:48 http://www.codesourcery.com/gnu_toolchains/arm/portal/package3397/public/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/arm-2008q3-41-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.bz2 Dec 10 13:40:52 is one i use Dec 10 13:41:02 thanks Dec 10 13:41:10 that uses the same libc as Diablo? Dec 10 13:41:36 * lardman wants to compile giac, and needs something other than 3.4.4 Dec 10 13:41:57 ah Dec 10 13:42:11 -no- clue about libc :P Dec 10 13:42:21 what do you compile with it then? Dec 10 13:42:53 native builders, atm :P Dec 10 13:43:09 i haven't gotten sb2 beaten into shape yet Dec 10 13:43:22 targetting the tablets though? Dec 10 13:43:38 targetting ubuntu jaunty armv5el for now Dec 10 13:44:06 http://gizmodo.com/5106085/novatels-portable-mifi-gives-you-wi+fi-doh-everywhere Dec 10 13:44:09 i -so- want.. Dec 10 13:44:50 cool, phone would be ok for me though Dec 10 13:44:59 and then wire it into my jacket Dec 10 13:45:08 anyone know what GUPnP will be used for in Fremantle? Dec 10 13:45:16 replacing clinkc Dec 10 13:45:17 Stskeeps: someone has to pay the bills though! Dec 10 13:45:25 yeah, but doing what? Dec 10 13:45:29 upnp Dec 10 13:45:32 media player stuff usually Dec 10 13:45:35 it's in connectivity & multimedia sections Dec 10 13:45:36 or storage Dec 10 13:45:49 ah ok, the server stuff Dec 10 13:52:05 crap docs on the code sourcery site, they don't give the versions for older toolchains Dec 10 13:52:11 http://www.codesourcery.com/gnu_toolchains/arm/portal/subscription3053 Dec 10 13:54:31 Stskeeps: when i had tablet-hw-n8x0-support and tablet-wireless installed, it told me that cx3110x is missing in /proc/modules could that cause wlan-cal to fail? (tablet-wireless should insert cx3110x from /lib/.... but anyway?? Dec 10 13:54:58 Meiz_n810: no, it shouldn't insert it automatically i think, hmm. did you run depmod -a? Dec 10 13:55:18 no i didn't Dec 10 13:55:18 modprobe cx3110x and then try wlan-cal? Dec 10 13:57:33 tablet-wireless runs modprobe cx3110x antomatically if linuxrc is used i think. Last time i tried it failed to do that, so i changed modprobe to insmod /.../cx3110x, after that it was able to load cx3110x and did not crash anymore, but wlan-cal still failed Dec 10 13:57:41 k Dec 10 13:57:48 i'm not sure at this moment, sorry Dec 10 13:58:02 thursday i should be more free. :P Dec 10 13:58:09 k :P Dec 10 13:58:12 wlan wasn't trivial under debian so Dec 10 13:58:29 * Meiz_n810 is now installing build-things to his Mer. Dec 10 13:59:22 now when i have that tar.gz backup and i'm sure that hildon starts i will soon try to make wlan work again Dec 10 13:59:26 k Dec 10 13:59:46 what changes did you made to network-manager? Dec 10 13:59:53 (the deblet one) Dec 10 14:00:29 non trivial ones, the new n-m jaunty uses is way differentt Dec 10 14:00:48 ok Dec 10 14:15:57 oh pfft @ bootable android and interview.. they should interview the original movers :P Dec 10 14:19:40 bootable android for n810? Dec 10 14:19:47 gimme link :P Dec 10 14:19:51 iTT :P Dec 10 14:19:55 k Dec 10 14:19:56 yeah, nthcode instead of the cool original people :P Dec 10 14:24:12 bbiab Dec 10 14:27:48 I am pretty sure Peter will tell him that Solca has made better port with WiFi.. They are kind of helping each other right now.. Dec 10 14:28:22 k Dec 10 14:31:39 more Team bootstrapping suggestions..: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New#Mer_Foundation Dec 10 14:31:52 I really don't get why there are like 4 groups working on android wouldn't it be better for them to work together Dec 10 14:32:05 think there's 2 atm, on tablets Dec 10 14:32:12 4teams? Dec 10 14:32:22 I know of atleast 3 I think Dec 10 14:32:43 what's the third? Dec 10 14:32:53 i know only solca and Nth Dec 10 14:33:28 Good morning Dec 10 14:33:28 Solca and Nth guys are kinda working together right now... Dec 10 14:33:35 morning r2d2rogers Dec 10 14:33:36 what failed? Dec 10 14:33:36 is NITDroid Solca? Dec 10 14:33:41 yeah Dec 10 14:33:42 trying to figure out Dec 10 14:34:03 it seems to be int he middle of the locales package install Dec 10 14:34:05 and the old installer thas been out for a while pre source release are they still working on it? Dec 10 14:34:13 r2d2rogers: fails or reboots? Dec 10 14:34:22 but t5he bootmenu deb does the same behavior on another Dec 10 14:34:43 the one penguinbait released on itT Dec 10 14:34:52 fails strangly, terminal goes white and I have to close all terminals to get the terminal to respond Dec 10 14:34:57 hmm Dec 10 14:35:02 But the tablet doesn't seem to be slowed down Dec 10 14:35:03 swapping heavily maybe Dec 10 14:35:07 ssh in instead? Dec 10 14:35:12 will try today Dec 10 14:35:19 have both 770s at work Dec 10 14:35:46 andrewfblack: So, they are working on the new android 1.0 ??? Dec 10 14:36:18 i tought they don't play with android anymore, it was just the old one they made... Dec 10 14:37:14 NOt sure I havn't seen anything from them in a while you might be right. Dec 10 14:37:24 think they gave up mostly really Dec 10 14:38:08 sucks they are the only person with a simple install right now Dec 10 14:38:28 re Dec 10 14:38:54 wb Dec 10 14:39:22 andrewfblack: maybe the new android will be as easy to install as the old, when solca announces his Nitselector Dec 10 14:40:21 maybe Dec 10 14:40:30 (New graphical boootmenu) but i have heard that it would be possible to install some stuff with it? flash kernels? Dec 10 14:40:54 boot different kernels at least Dec 10 14:41:29 cool Dec 10 14:42:33 Sts: Was my text useful? Dec 10 14:42:42 RST38h: yes, made a comment above Dec 10 14:42:52 about one thing i changed a bit :P Dec 10 14:44:24 Sts: I missed your comment (meetings). Could you repeat? Dec 10 14:44:33 "Developing parts of Maemo that has the interest of the community to improve upon. " Dec 10 14:44:39 insead Dec 10 14:44:40 +t Dec 10 14:45:00 cos nokia developers may have an interest to develop, but it may be contrary to their business model Dec 10 14:45:41 Stskeeps: want some English improvements on that? Dec 10 14:45:52 Given it's a little ungrammatical Dec 10 14:46:00 Jaffa: yes, i'm finishing up the new blueprint and all changes are welcome :P Dec 10 14:47:16 the green green meat of homegrown... Dec 10 14:47:16 "Allowing the community to focus on development of parts of Maemo" (first draft, still clumsy) Dec 10 14:48:40 yeah, i'll put the draft out to proof reading :P Dec 10 14:52:11 Sts: I would not use "contrary to business model" Dec 10 14:52:25 RST38h: oh, that isn't part of the actual written thing :P Dec 10 14:52:29 it's just why i changed it Dec 10 14:57:36 Stskeeps :if i install deblet:s network manager, do i have better change tp get it work? Dec 10 14:57:51 i think it will conflict hugely with jaunty Dec 10 14:57:52 s/tp/to/ Dec 10 14:57:52 Meiz_n810 meant: Stskeeps :if i install deblet:s network manager, do i have better change to get it work? Dec 10 14:57:58 ok Dec 10 14:58:15 OK, Mer proofreaders: https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New Dec 10 14:58:27 if you want to change anything :P i have to catch my bus so Dec 10 15:02:37 Changing Dec 10 15:15:12 Has anyone used Personal Menu 0.9-6 from extras-devel? Dec 10 15:17:54 GeneralAntilles: email sent, bbiab Dec 10 15:38:07 lardman, hai, done any work with qalculate? I've made quite a few changes on this end (none related to hildonising sorry, unless you count fullscreen ability) :) Dec 10 15:39:55 no, nothing at all, please do forward the source Dec 10 15:40:01 did you fix the missing "x"? Dec 10 15:40:25 I always wondered why it was pink, I see it's called the Queer Calculator, might explain why... Dec 10 15:40:38 hehe :P Dec 10 15:40:51 Soon as I've finished, I'll forward on the source Dec 10 15:41:06 But it's not really good custom to hardcode CFLAGS in the Makefile.am etc :P Dec 10 15:46:22 * Stskeeps yawns Dec 10 15:48:20 RST38h: ta for change Dec 10 15:50:33 qwerty12: NOLO, X-loader was in firmware images too right? Dec 10 15:50:48 Stskeeps, yes. Dec 10 15:50:58 k Dec 10 15:53:25 qwerty12: yeah, not sure how to get it in there otherwise though Dec 10 15:53:35 qwerty12: remember if FIASCO supports only updating certain parts, like, an firmware update that would only contain initfs? Dec 10 15:54:35 Stskeeps: ? Dec 10 15:54:51 trenka: pong? Dec 10 15:54:55 lardman, yeah, cdbs is my pet hate :) but it can be done. I just need to edit the desktop file (made it install to the /hildon dir) :) Dec 10 15:54:59 Stskeeps, no idea. Dec 10 15:55:03 Stskeeps: I did not get the question Dec 10 15:55:35 trenka, Would a FIASCO image that only contains one part (initfs in this example) be accepted as a valid image? Dec 10 15:55:38 fiasco can contains any part(s), flasher can support update of certain parts Dec 10 15:55:46 yes Dec 10 15:55:49 alright, sounds good Dec 10 15:56:10 trenka, ah, are you the fiasco-flasher guy? Dec 10 15:57:01 Stskeeps: just for nolo -- it should contain both Dec 10 15:57:45 trenka: alright, thanks - very good information to have :) Dec 10 16:05:47 solca: ping? Dec 10 16:08:39 Stskeeps: pong Dec 10 16:13:58 Stskeeps: I'm experimenting embedding a small payload (nitboot) on linux kernel Dec 10 16:14:12 to being able to boot to any partiotion without problems Dec 10 16:14:24 without rooting to initfs Dec 10 16:14:33 my current target is Mer Dec 10 16:14:36 sounds interesting :) Dec 10 16:14:41 calling /sbin/init directly Dec 10 16:15:02 if the experiment works Dec 10 16:15:14 it would be trivial to change between kernels Dec 10 16:15:34 s/change/boot Dec 10 16:15:37 well a kernel always calls /sbin/init directly. so does bootmenu, linuxrc is just a hack in that area Dec 10 16:15:42 to avoid breaking maemo compatibility Dec 10 16:16:02 yea, linuxrc currently assumes comes from initfs Dec 10 16:16:07 yeah Dec 10 16:16:09 and thats good Dec 10 16:16:21 I would like a kernel with a payload that boots directly to initfs Dec 10 16:16:22 and maemo assumes it's being run through initfs heavily Dec 10 16:16:38 I dont think we can change maemo behavior Dec 10 16:16:51 but I think Mer can be architected to be flexible Dec 10 16:16:54 *nod* Dec 10 16:17:22 right now linuxrc is a hack to make it boot sanely :) it could just as well use otherwise Dec 10 16:17:26 solca: goot thing Dec 10 16:18:10 solca: i'm really looking forward to seeing what interesting things we can do with kexec :) Dec 10 16:18:11 with a payload (nitboot) embedded to it we could boot anything without disrupting watchdogs, etc Dec 10 16:18:54 it could definately help reboot time.. probably Dec 10 16:19:31 Stskeeps: with kexec everything is possible, at least the maemo kernels boots good Dec 10 16:19:39 .. or for the slightly insane, netbsd/freebsd on tablet.. :> Dec 10 16:19:45 moo. what have I missed? Dec 10 16:19:50 not much Dec 10 16:19:55 nitboot discussion Dec 10 16:20:29 and the possibly of non-bootloader flashing firmware images Dec 10 16:20:55 I really need a _real_ small userspace that fits in less than 0.5MB Dec 10 16:21:18 uclibc here we come? :P Dec 10 16:21:18 hackers Dec 10 16:22:39 Stskeeps: yea, will have to get back to my openwrt experiments to make a real small userspace Dec 10 16:22:59 isn't it possible to do something like zcpio? Dec 10 16:23:23 (initrd) Dec 10 16:23:31 Stskeeps: I belive the kernel initramfs (kernel embedding) use it Dec 10 16:23:36 k Dec 10 16:23:51 Salivate over this: http://gizmodo.com/5106370/hps-new-boston-power-laptop-batteries-last-3x-longer-charge-to-80-in-30-minutes Dec 10 16:24:04 and expand it when ready to a ramfs which becomes the rootfs Dec 10 16:24:26 dose any one use there Tablet as a pentesting device? Dec 10 16:24:48 (ok, I know that Nokia BP-* batteries have similar characteristics already :)) Dec 10 16:24:53 RST38h: Ah, another magic battery we will see in the future ;) Dec 10 16:25:15 X-Fade: Well, it has got HP as the customer, a marketing name, and a release date in january Dec 10 16:25:31 X-Fade: So this one is most likely real Dec 10 16:26:10 GeneralAntilles: ping Dec 10 16:26:16 I charge my lipos at 2.4A at 24v, so pushing in a lot of power in 30 minutes isn't that hard.. Dec 10 16:26:23 But still.. Dec 10 16:26:55 Nokia phone batteries will charge to 9-% in 40-50 minutes or so Dec 10 16:27:03 There are a lot of nice battery technologies coming out lately. But they all have a weight problem. Dec 10 16:27:13 And they do last longer than laptop ones, but I guess it is because of the lower capacity and lower power drain Dec 10 16:27:28 weight or volume X-Fade ? Dec 10 16:28:02 A123 for instance can charge really fast and can take a lot of abuse. But weighs a lot more than lipo. Dec 10 16:28:06 s/9-/80 Dec 10 16:28:36 Technically that is LiFe btw. Dec 10 16:28:48 is anyone here good (or moderately good) on graphics art? Dec 10 16:28:50 lardman, ping Dec 10 16:28:59 can i invest in lithium futures? Dec 10 16:29:35 X-Fade: they do find use in automobiles though Dec 10 16:29:49 solca: graphic art means? gimp/inkscape/icons kind? Dec 10 16:29:56 yep Dec 10 16:29:57 RST38h: Yeah and in a drag bike ;) Dec 10 16:30:33 just seen that =) Dec 10 16:30:44 I would like some androids robots painted in nokia blue Dec 10 16:31:13 for the nitdroid logo Dec 10 16:31:37 qwerty12: pong Dec 10 16:31:56 solca you just want the robots in blue? Dec 10 16:32:15 lardman, find my modified source here : http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/qalculate/ - I've made lots of good packaging changes and added fullscreen by pressing the fullscreen button Dec 10 16:32:24 andrewfblack: yea, I try with the gimp to replace color but I really suck at that things Dec 10 16:32:36 good work! Dec 10 16:32:50 wtf? Dec 10 16:32:54 :P Dec 10 16:32:54 and hildonised the rest of it too? ;) Dec 10 16:33:12 solca: not you, qwerty12 Dec 10 16:33:27 qwerty: thanks! =) Dec 10 16:33:29 lardman, ha, effing source is confusing me :P. I'll take a look now, but that source should produce a good debian package Dec 10 16:33:37 RST38h, it's lardman that found the problem :) Dec 10 16:33:45 Thanks to both of you! Dec 10 16:33:48 qwerty12: did you work out how to sort the CFLAGS? Dec 10 16:33:59 in a less hacky manner? Dec 10 16:34:01 lardman: I was talking about andrewfblack getting in/out of the channel very fast and fourious :P Dec 10 16:34:14 ah, ok :) Dec 10 16:34:24 lardman, yep, it's effing cdbs, can be done by adding a few lines to debian/rules (still not as easy as a dh_make rules file) :/ Dec 10 16:34:26 yeah had a computer issue lol Dec 10 16:34:34 lardman, take a look at debian/rules, you'll see how I did it Dec 10 16:34:41 cool Dec 10 16:34:43 andrewfblack: yea, I try with the gimp to replace color but I really suck at that things Dec 10 16:34:58 RST38h, if you want to qalculate gtk, take the deb from my link and dependencies from : http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/feed/dists/diablo/main/binary-armel/ Dec 10 16:35:02 ^use Dec 10 16:35:58 What are the dependencies btw? Dec 10 16:36:03 just cln Dec 10 16:36:10 and the lib qalculate Dec 10 16:38:11 solca this what you want? http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/android.png Dec 10 16:38:35 cool!!! Dec 10 16:38:36 thats the blue from this logo http://www.albatec.es/data/marcas/Nokia-logo.bmp Dec 10 16:39:17 excellent! Dec 10 16:39:27 do you think a 800x480 version is possible too? Dec 10 16:41:21 and if this one can be converted just the center android to blue too? Dec 10 16:41:23 http://richd.com/images/2007/android-rendered.jpg Dec 10 16:41:36 andrewfblack: yea, I know I'm abusing... Dec 10 16:41:39 yeah Dec 10 16:41:47 its cool give me one sec Dec 10 16:41:55 thx! Dec 10 16:45:57 lardman: that is relatively light =) Dec 10 16:46:32 here is 800x480 background http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/android800x480.png Dec 10 16:46:45 other one will take a little while longer Dec 10 16:48:02 andrewfblack: thx, the other one is more difficult because of the lighting right? Dec 10 16:48:10 yeah Dec 10 16:51:59 qwerty12: x (multiply) is still knackered Dec 10 16:52:28 lardman, that's your area, I didn't actually know that there was a problem there :) Dec 10 16:52:51 looks like some unicode char Dec 10 16:52:55 I'll alter it Dec 10 16:52:59 Though the decimal point could do with fixing... Dec 10 16:53:06 I've not used that one yet Dec 10 16:53:22 You can see it :). It's a [] rather than being a . Dec 10 16:53:46 ah, that's how the x sign appears in the edit window Dec 10 16:54:01 at least the decimal point appears correctly in that window Dec 10 16:54:04 solca: how it the nitchooser project going? :) Dec 10 16:54:39 Meiz_n810: initial tests, I'm trying to embedd a small userspace payload in the kernel Dec 10 16:54:48 ok Dec 10 16:54:51 sounds good Dec 10 16:54:57 that in turn launch the UI or boot to any partition Dec 10 16:55:37 but I need a real small userspace that fits in less than 0.5MB Dec 10 17:02:02 lo slonopotamus Dec 10 17:02:45 hi, Stskeeps Dec 10 17:03:22 solca: http://mike.ogaz.org/files/android-rendered-blue.png Dec 10 17:03:58 Proteous: wow!! Dec 10 17:05:02 solca look at this one http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/android800x480v2.png Dec 10 17:05:40 andrewfblack: thats much better Dec 10 17:05:51 just the color inside the O is not the same? Dec 10 17:06:04 that is how is it on android logo Dec 10 17:06:22 well one that one let me fix it Dec 10 17:07:05 never mind thats my fault forgot I changed the background around the letters ll Dec 10 17:07:34 ok new version up Dec 10 17:09:20 andrewfblack: thats much better Dec 10 17:10:42 now I just need to get new Android on my tablet lol Dec 10 17:11:20 andrewfblack: can you change this one to blue too: http://bp3.blogger.com/_vOWVJj4LO0w/R7TDtHJNa1I/AAAAAAAAAAQ/31bn4mpRHO0/s200/android_small_image.jpg Dec 10 17:12:56 Proteous: that with the lightinig rendering is very very cool! Dec 10 17:13:21 thanks Dec 10 17:13:21 Proteous: I wish you could do some nitdroid letters with lightning... Dec 10 17:14:48 andrewfblack: how would it look the 800x480 version but instead of white the android green? Dec 10 17:15:40 http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/androidsmall.png here is small one Dec 10 17:16:03 thx! Dec 10 17:16:05 green around logo and text? Dec 10 17:17:51 http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/android800x480v3.png Dec 10 17:18:16 hmm I dont like it Dec 10 17:18:49 thats what you were asking about though wasn't it? Dec 10 17:18:54 yes that was Dec 10 17:18:58 ok cool Dec 10 17:19:19 and what about like that but the robot white inside Dec 10 17:19:28 just experimenting... Dec 10 17:20:45 http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/android800x480v4.png Dec 10 17:21:04 nope Dec 10 17:21:15 I had an idea Dec 10 17:21:22 as I want it as the start screen Dec 10 17:21:29 it must be white background Dec 10 17:21:47 so live v3 but with white background Dec 10 17:21:53 s/live/like Dec 10 17:22:19 but the robot fill in blue Dec 10 17:22:27 if is not much asking... Dec 10 17:23:30 * Stskeeps ponders how big an artist community exists within maemo, and who could be prodded for a mer logo Dec 10 17:23:36 http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/android800x480v5.png Dec 10 17:24:00 Tim is good Dec 10 17:24:50 *nod* Dec 10 17:25:27 What about v5 but black background? =P Dec 10 17:25:45 "nitdroid - join the dark side"? :P Dec 10 17:26:20 andrewfblack: I like v5 too Dec 10 17:27:21 Meiz_n810 http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/android800x480v6.png Dec 10 17:27:39 :) Dec 10 17:28:51 what about adding a N8x0 into one of the androids hands (logo) Dec 10 17:28:52 ^^ Dec 10 17:29:15 With an N900 around a (very large) corner? Dec 10 17:29:27 I think v2 and v5 are the best Dec 10 17:29:35 thopiekar: :P good idea Dec 10 17:29:59 Stskeeps: finished the bootstrap with some errors on packages, Dec 10 17:30:08 can it boot like deblet? Dec 10 17:30:14 this would make the logo very specific^^ Dec 10 17:30:51 r2d2rogers: can i see which errors on packages? Dec 10 17:30:55 yup Dec 10 17:32:48 Stskeeps: digging through scroll, screen rocks... Dec 10 17:33:00 hehe Dec 10 17:33:44 and when you say bootstrap, meaning imager finished? Dec 10 17:34:51 andrewfblack: one last experiment: v5 with just the NIT letters in blue ? Dec 10 17:36:51 r2d2rogers: you might want to do yourself a favour and cp in fb0,fb1,fb2 to /dev as well Dec 10 17:37:16 solca: do you know how to change screen orientation in android? Dec 10 17:37:35 Meiz_n810: nope never tried Dec 10 17:37:41 i know only how to do it while browsing web Dec 10 17:37:41 Meiz_n810: but the kernel is capable Dec 10 17:37:43 k Dec 10 17:38:17 Meiz_n810: I read somewhere there was a shell command to do it Dec 10 17:38:24 Meiz_n810: let me find it Dec 10 17:38:24 ok Dec 10 17:38:35 no, you don't have to Dec 10 17:38:38 :p Dec 10 17:40:43 this what you want http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/android800x480v7.png Dec 10 17:41:01 Stskeeps, pong. Dec 10 17:42:04 Meiz_n810: cant find it but is sued the 'service' command Dec 10 17:42:12 k Dec 10 17:42:27 Stskeeps: I'm not sure if it finished, it was still running package installation. Dec 10 17:42:28 andrewfblack: that's nice Dec 10 17:42:41 GeneralAntilles: event doesn't show up on maemo.org (yet), but under events it does, with broken link. I was thinking about putting out a -developers post and a iTT post about the meeting, where i link to http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New (needs some copy-editing i think) Dec 10 17:42:46 andrewfblack: yea but just the NIT letters, the droid always in green Dec 10 17:42:48 Stskeeps: copy those fromwhere? Dec 10 17:42:53 r2d2rogers: /dev Dec 10 17:43:44 Stskeeps: package errors http://pastebin.ca/1281801 Dec 10 17:43:46 Stskeeps, I'm thinking it's related to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3920 Dec 10 17:43:47 GeneralAntilles: and blueprint_new being a proposal for discussion Dec 10 17:43:54 solca inside robot white? Dec 10 17:44:15 (for the meeting) Dec 10 17:44:26 in the nitdroid text the nit part in blue and the droid part in green Dec 10 17:44:42 ahh got it Dec 10 17:45:44 http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/android800x480v9.png Dec 10 17:45:47 r2d2rogers: eh.. it looks like it's not faking invoke-rc.d and start-stop-daemon. can i see your platform script and your target? Dec 10 17:45:48 look at this one to http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/android800x480v8.png Dec 10 17:46:12 v8 is more of a joke but funny Dec 10 17:46:28 I copied the platform script from the 800 Dec 10 17:46:37 the target coming up Dec 10 17:46:59 andrewfblack: thats funny Dec 10 17:47:21 bit a bad looking tablet for about 1 min of work Dec 10 17:47:22 andrewfblack: but I dont thin I can put an image with a brand name on it Dec 10 17:48:11 Stskeeps: target http://pastebin.ca/1281807 Dec 10 17:48:43 hmm. looks correct. and you run it with sh imager targets/mer-770-fs-only /target? Dec 10 17:48:58 Stskeeps: copied the only existing /dev/fb0 to /mnt/deblet/dev (reusing the deblet mount point for the mer image Dec 10 17:49:19 going to have to save my little tablet image i like it Dec 10 17:49:22 yeah, i do the same (reusing mount point) Dec 10 17:49:34 so which one you going with? Dec 10 17:49:43 andrewfblack: I like it too, it could be useful Dec 10 17:50:16 andrewfblack: do you have the one with the nit part in blue and the droid in green? Dec 10 17:50:45 yeah its http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/android800x480v9.png Dec 10 17:50:49 Stskeeps: yes: sh imager targets/mer-770-fs-only /mnt/deblet/ Dec 10 17:51:15 maybe I'll try and put a little maemo desktop screen shot on the tablet Dec 10 17:51:26 andrewfblack: it prints Dec 10 17:51:29 i like it Dec 10 17:51:38 Stskeeps: can I get into a chroot like with the deblet to see what apt can do to reconfig? Dec 10 17:52:17 r2d2rogers: well, let's see if it boots. it won't show hildon, but it may boot Dec 10 17:52:23 it needs similar entry as deblet Dec 10 17:52:24 k Dec 10 17:52:29 have that already Dec 10 17:52:31 hold down home key during boot Dec 10 17:52:36 and select usb Dec 10 17:52:36 one thing: Starting BT Connection Daemon: Called fake /mnt/deblet//sbin/start-stop-daemon .. Dec 10 17:52:42 andrewfblack: I know this is abusing you hehe Dec 10 17:52:47 it did seem to have the fakle start stop in some Dec 10 17:52:47 r2d2rogers: yeah, fine Dec 10 17:52:52 k Dec 10 17:52:54 r2d2rogers: and that wonders me too Dec 10 17:52:55 rebooting Dec 10 17:53:30 andrewfblack: but I would like v9 in 3 versions: 1. v9 as is , 2. v9 with green at 50% and 3. with white instead of green Dec 10 17:53:44 andrewfblack: that to make a nice animation Dec 10 17:53:53 andrewfblack: if possible... Dec 10 17:54:15 yeah Dec 10 17:54:18 Stskeeps: got mer rescue menu Dec 10 17:54:25 r2d2rogers: progress Dec 10 17:54:25 console on frame buffer? Dec 10 17:54:29 you just want 50% or ever 10% Dec 10 17:54:33 r2d2rogers: go for usb i guess Dec 10 17:54:49 it includes console on framebuffer Dec 10 17:54:57 then press center a couple of times to continue booting Dec 10 17:55:21 andrewfblack: I don't know, maybe you can decide, all I want is in the animation green starts dimished until full green Dec 10 17:55:22 ethernet or serial USB? Dec 10 17:55:34 ethernet Dec 10 17:55:36 3 steps I think are enough for a animation right? Dec 10 17:55:37 serial usb doesn't work Dec 10 17:55:41 k Dec 10 17:55:49 not sure i don't do animations Dec 10 17:56:10 andrewfblack: the animations is done by android itself Dec 10 17:56:24 I just need to feed it with the static images Dec 10 17:57:25 you want just green words 50% or all green Dec 10 17:57:29 Stskeeps: getting the escape character and then connection closed my foreign host Dec 10 17:57:34 trying continue boot Dec 10 17:57:36 r2d2rogers: yeah, cos udev doesnt work :P Dec 10 17:57:46 we'll get to that Dec 10 17:58:03 so far booting into console is a plus Dec 10 17:58:12 center button not making it continue Dec 10 17:58:13 hey Stskeeps, can I PM you for a minute? Dec 10 17:58:19 r2d2rogers: press several times Dec 10 17:58:20 DeathKing242: mmk Dec 10 17:59:05 andrewfblack: v9 but all green to 50% and another v9 with all green completely white (0%) Dec 10 17:59:11 Stskeeps: no response Dec 10 17:59:20 still responsive to USB cable plug/unplug Dec 10 17:59:52 r2d2rogers: you need to do 5 newlines Dec 10 18:00:01 think it's center Dec 10 18:00:09 on dpad Dec 10 18:00:53 http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/android800x480v9v2.png http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/android800x480v9v3.png Dec 10 18:01:06 center didn't work, nor did any of the other hardware buttons Dec 10 18:01:12 blah Dec 10 18:01:24 edit /etc/init.d/usbnet-emergency-telnetd Dec 10 18:01:27 I don't have a hub to try a hardware keyboard but I can borrow one Dec 10 18:01:27 remove the read foo's Dec 10 18:01:39 (battery popping time) Dec 10 18:01:43 wilco Dec 10 18:02:13 I need a good idea for a new maemo theme. Dec 10 18:02:25 andrewfblack: make one for mer. plankton is fugly :P Dec 10 18:02:30 the /etc/init.d/ on the card ? Dec 10 18:02:33 r2d2rogers: yeah Dec 10 18:02:50 I'll do that and get back to you after lunch Dec 10 18:02:55 thanks for your help Dec 10 18:02:58 np Dec 10 18:02:59 how do I make my maemo themes for mer do they use the same layout? Dec 10 18:03:01 and thank you too Dec 10 18:03:05 andrewfblack: same layout, yeah Dec 10 18:03:17 andrewfblack: excellent!! that's it Dec 10 18:03:18 hildon-theme-layout-4 Dec 10 18:03:29 andrewfblack: can I put you in the credits? Dec 10 18:03:45 If you want to Dec 10 18:03:58 andrewfblack: thx!! this art is awesome!... Dec 10 18:04:11 if you need anything else just let me know Dec 10 18:05:51 andrewfblack: any other themes you've done? Dec 10 18:06:32 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/themehackers/ all these Dec 10 18:06:53 *looks* Dec 10 18:06:53 mostly me screwing around I need a good idea and stop doing ones based a on movie theme or somethng Dec 10 18:07:12 any screenshots of them? :P Dec 10 18:07:46 your www.themehackers.maemobox.org seems to have been hacked, btw Dec 10 18:08:06 lol yeah I see that was going to give you that link Dec 10 18:08:36 one sec Dec 10 18:13:23 wb lardman Dec 10 18:13:40 hey Stskeeps Dec 10 18:13:57 who wants my lurgy? Dec 10 18:14:02 lurgy? Dec 10 18:14:03 here are a few screenshots you can search itT also Dec 10 18:14:03 its open source Dec 10 18:14:06 illness Dec 10 18:14:09 ah Dec 10 18:14:10 no thanks lcuk Dec 10 18:14:19 lcuk: would you take my insanity then? :P Dec 10 18:14:22 are you sure, ive published the tissues Dec 10 18:14:41 Stskeeps, ive got enough insanity for everyone Dec 10 18:14:46 but god do i feel lousy Dec 10 18:15:09 si, did you get your compilation issue sorted Dec 10 18:15:12 or did you giveu p Dec 10 18:15:40 lcuk: got it sorted, found a bug in the bugtracker Dec 10 18:15:45 Stskeeps, DeathKing242, take invite Dec 10 18:15:51 good Dec 10 18:15:52 well that was one issue, the C++ I didn't Dec 10 18:15:57 qwerty12: you about? Dec 10 18:16:04 dwr: if it's about IRC, not interested Dec 10 18:16:05 lardman, sure Dec 10 18:16:10 s/C++/2nd C++ Dec 10 18:16:31 qwerty12: you were talking a while back about a later CS toolchain, which one was it? Dec 10 18:16:39 GCC 4.x.x? Dec 10 18:17:06 Stskeeps, well, someone posted me logs, but I don't think that it's good to discuss this in public channel Dec 10 18:17:14 but yes, this is related to irc Dec 10 18:17:26 lardman, arm-linux-cs2008q3-41 with 4.3.2. Took me some messing though to get it to work with diablo sdk though Dec 10 18:17:48 hmm, it has a later version of libc I thought? Dec 10 18:18:06 Stskeeps did you see my link. If you give me some ideas on a theme for MER you want I can make it. My problem is I can never come up with good ideas Dec 10 18:18:29 andrewfblack: er, don't think you pasted one Dec 10 18:18:45 lardman, it may do but my messing seems to give me the gcc 3 version. dunno if it actually has a newer libc though, I'll check Dec 10 18:19:00 Stskeeps http://themehackers.maemobox.org/wp-content/gallery/ only screenshots I can find right now Dec 10 18:19:05 ta Dec 10 18:19:35 lardman, I would check but it seems I have no libc in this temp target :-) Dec 10 18:19:59 andrewfblack: hehe @ xp theme Dec 10 18:20:17 qwerty12: I just wanted something later to try with giac Dec 10 18:20:41 yeah that was my first one, I noticed the broken Vista theme had like 40k downloads at the time so I thought it would get alot of downloads Dec 10 18:20:59 I thnk broken vista theme is up over 50k now Dec 10 18:21:35 well since microsoft havent released a working vista thats about on track Dec 10 18:21:46 vista isn't all that bad :P Dec 10 18:21:54 though not as great as xp, I do admit Dec 10 18:22:08 * lardman curses MATLAB for placing everything in doubles, flagrant waste of memory Dec 10 18:22:43 if i buy myself a slate tablet thats currently got xp on it, whats the chances of getting drivers for linux working - note my linux adminning ability level... Dec 10 18:22:57 lcuk Don't worry soon Windows 7 will be out and vista will still be broke Dec 10 18:23:05 andrewfblack: curious, when you make themes, how much is it based on the nokia imagery? Dec 10 18:23:09 you/anyone Dec 10 18:23:39 depends on source i assume Dec 10 18:24:04 Stskeeps I do all my themes starting off with Nuvo theme and modify from there is that what your asking? Dec 10 18:24:09 alright Dec 10 18:24:20 just pondering idly, i never did a theme so Dec 10 18:24:46 You could do it starting off with plankon or really a blank image if you wanted Dec 10 18:25:49 I take the easy way out and use theme maker for my themes. I have unpacked a few changed some files and repacked them but I don't mess with hildon tools don't have time Dec 10 18:28:20 Stskeeps any idea what kind of theme you want? Dec 10 18:28:53 andrewfblack: i guess something in the style of theme-echo, but without being too similar Dec 10 18:29:59 I'll work on something this week for you Dec 10 18:30:44 Can MER insall debs for maemo or does something need to be changed? Dec 10 18:31:30 andrewfblack: it will be source level compatible at least Dec 10 18:31:40 ok Dec 10 18:31:43 it's ubuntu based, so debs work fine Dec 10 18:31:50 Stskeeps: it stops and becomes unresponsive after "USB cable disconnected" Dec 10 18:32:02 no change on plug/unplug USB cable Dec 10 18:32:14 r2d2rogers: even after removing the read foo stuff? Dec 10 18:32:21 yup Dec 10 18:32:28 try without usb right now Dec 10 18:32:30 just the 5 lines right? Dec 10 18:32:32 yeah Dec 10 18:32:33 yup Dec 10 18:32:38 ahh Dec 10 18:32:46 just boot nohome hold? Dec 10 18:32:46 Stskeeps, you're spawning an obnoxious number of wiki pages that seem to have an unclear relation to eachother. :P Dec 10 18:32:52 GeneralAntilles: i'm sorry :P Dec 10 18:32:58 i'll delete some of them Dec 10 18:33:00 Use one or two and then evolve them Dec 10 18:33:06 or make an overview page Dec 10 18:33:13 Task:Mer project Dec 10 18:34:19 i'll clean it up a bit past the meeting, just had to get the info out in some way for now :P Dec 10 18:34:29 then Mer & Maemo reconstructed will be merged together Dec 10 18:36:07 Stskeeps: stops after pivot root and starting /sbin/init Dec 10 18:36:17 r2d2rogers: even with console on? Dec 10 18:36:40 remembered to start the rescue menu? Dec 10 18:37:58 doing activate console on frame buffer shows the list Dec 10 18:38:12 list? Dec 10 18:38:13 last item is hwa742: setting update mode to auto Dec 10 18:38:41 looks like boot messages Dec 10 18:39:05 ok.. maybe it just boots Dec 10 18:39:06 ok, google search for "mer project" gives the bbc philharmonic "la mer project (in salford)" the Mars exploration rover a single "bazaar branches of the mer project" (on launchpad) and not much else. Dec 10 18:39:14 [ 69.660949] hwa742: setting update mode to auto Dec 10 18:39:18 BIG question, why isnt there anything about it from the maemo wiki? Dec 10 18:39:30 lcuk: cos we're not sure what mer is yet :P Dec 10 18:39:42 but the wiki should have rank surely Dec 10 18:39:47 at least some Dec 10 18:40:02 lcuk, because Google fails Dec 10 18:40:11 Go blog about it and whore the links a bit. Dec 10 18:40:22 google does not fail for billions of other searchers - you need SEO work done Dec 10 18:40:37 agreed Dec 10 18:40:51 * Stskeeps ponders if he can even delete pages Dec 10 18:41:11 other than just removing content Dec 10 18:42:49 is it just me or does wiki.maemo.org search fail? Dec 10 18:43:06 .. or atleast not liking 3 letter names Dec 10 18:44:14 Yes, it fails Dec 10 18:45:19 Stskeeps: no shell, nothing else comes up, so how about that chroot idea? Dec 10 18:50:29 r2d2rogers: if you have the time to wait, do sh ./imager targets/mer-770-onlyfs /TARGET 2>&1 > imager.log (i think that's the syntax), after mkfsing the fs and remounting it.. then we get to the core of the errors Dec 10 18:51:43 I'll need to find a working mkfs.ext3 unless I can just rm -rf the fs Dec 10 18:52:03 e2fsprogs? Dec 10 18:52:15 will try it Dec 10 18:52:16 thanks Dec 10 18:52:31 Hi. I have a nokia N810 and wondered how I can add a program to the left panel so it can be launched quickly Dec 10 18:54:32 personal menu? Dec 10 18:54:45 should be in the extras repository Dec 10 18:55:06 gives you a customizable menu you can replace one of the icons on the left with Dec 10 18:55:22 esperegu: ^^^ how's that work for you? Dec 10 18:55:48 http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00krf86t.jpg Dec 10 18:58:23 Stskeeps: libuuid1 replaces that package? Dec 10 18:58:34 r2d2rogers: eh. Dec 10 18:59:20 yeah that's about what I thought... Dec 10 18:59:28 will install and see what I get Dec 10 19:00:13 reboots... Dec 10 19:00:34 hi, does anyone know if maemo supports other resolution than 800x480 ? Dec 10 19:00:50 I'm googling, but i can't find anything recent about that Dec 10 19:02:01 cypou, yes and no Dec 10 19:02:16 :), you mean ? Dec 10 19:02:27 It'll work fine but it's not currently targetted for other resolutions Dec 10 19:02:40 Some parts of Maemo handle different resolutions just fine Dec 10 19:02:46 The theme will be a bit off Dec 10 19:03:04 But not ALL parts. So you can expect a semidecent home screen view, but a lot of applications (including Nokia ones) will break Dec 10 19:03:49 have you tested screen rotate ? Dec 10 19:03:54 http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2007/02/09/hildon-desktop-scalability/ Dec 10 19:03:57 I've read that it is available now Dec 10 19:04:13 Has been since OS2005 Dec 10 19:04:57 and the maemo desktop fits correctly ? Dec 10 19:05:11 more or less Dec 10 19:05:41 it should be usable Dec 10 19:06:41 like that ? http://sse2.net/rotate/shot01.png Dec 10 19:09:57 GAN800, RST38h: thanks a lot Dec 10 19:12:23 So, Mer is now connected to mi Wi-Fi ap and all i need is ip Dec 10 19:13:04 nm-applet wont work, what's the command to get it using dhcp? Dec 10 19:13:25 dhclient wlan0 i think Dec 10 19:13:30 thanks Dec 10 19:13:38 or udhcpc -i wlan0 Dec 10 19:13:42 not sure which one is actually installed Dec 10 19:15:18 dhclient worked thanks Dec 10 19:15:40 * Meizirkki is downloading pidgin to his Mer so hi can chat from it Dec 10 19:15:53 s/hi/he/ Dec 10 19:16:41 hehe, the worlds first mer user :P Dec 10 19:16:53 :P Dec 10 19:16:55 Stskeeps: wlan-cal always fails at boot but i added it to rc.local Dec 10 19:16:58 k Dec 10 19:17:04 it works after boot Dec 10 19:17:13 funky Dec 10 19:17:26 remember screenshots galore :P Dec 10 19:17:33 ok :P Dec 10 19:22:00 qwerty12_N800: disable unicode by editing the conf file Dec 10 19:22:23 qwerty12_N800: so I guess it's a lack of a unicode font containing the x and . chars Dec 10 19:22:29 probably a wrong place to ask, but what are the estimates for new tablet to come out? Dec 10 19:22:32 will do further investigation to see Dec 10 19:22:37 lardman, cool, will do that now Dec 10 19:22:57 qwerty12_N800: it should be possible from the menu, but the dialog is too long so you can't get to the bottom Dec 10 19:23:08 thresh: dunno, maybe summer 09 Dec 10 19:23:36 well, considering the fact the new SDK is alpha state now, could be true Dec 10 19:23:39 lardman, i wish it wasn't using glade :( Dec 10 19:24:18 yeah, well we could re-write it, not a big thing really Dec 10 19:24:23 not this evening mind you Dec 10 19:24:47 s/we/you :p Dec 10 19:24:52 thresh: yeah, pre-alpha is to make platform developers happy Dec 10 19:24:53 * lardman goes to see if his DVD player will play DivX on usb stick Dec 10 19:24:58 qwerty12_N800: ;p Dec 10 19:25:38 ciroip_: good job on 3d mania theme Dec 10 19:26:15 r2d2rogers: I wanted to be able to click on it directly. but thx! Dec 10 19:26:33 Anyone know the email? Dec 10 19:26:35 Stskeeps: yeah.. Dec 10 19:26:42 I need to contact him Dec 10 19:26:56 i was considering buying the device to be able to develop VLC for it Dec 10 19:27:11 Hello ! Dec 10 19:27:13 thresh: thought there was a bit of hildonization already in vlc? Dec 10 19:27:41 Stskeeps: there is a new interface and some support for n8x0 in current vlc git master, yeah Dec 10 19:27:43 someone know a mud client for maemo ? Dec 10 19:28:08 Stskeeps: doesnt mean it's completely finished though :) Dec 10 19:28:18 thresh: happen to have any scrshots of that, even if it's alpha? Dec 10 19:28:20 Khertan_n810, hi, there's a command line one on itt Dec 10 19:28:36 hum ... Dec 10 19:28:57 thx qwerty12 ... i ll try it Dec 10 19:30:01 Stskeeps: nope... Dec 10 19:33:37 we had some from debian sid (not on device itself), and it was creepy :) Dec 10 19:33:50 thresh: hehe Dec 10 19:34:09 vlc could be interesting in Mer :P Dec 10 19:34:32 uhm "mer"? Dec 10 19:34:38 (sorry i'm a newbie :) Dec 10 19:35:21 Does use to be in this channel? Dec 10 19:36:34 mer: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint Dec 10 19:36:45 tf: error while loading shared libraries: libssl.so.0.9.7: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Dec 10 19:36:47 arg Dec 10 19:37:27 Stskeeps: nope mplayer is better Dec 10 19:37:29 andre__: thanks! Dec 10 19:38:05 Khertan_n810, symlink libssl.so.0.9.8 to libssl.so.0.9.7 Dec 10 19:39:37 lo meiz Dec 10 19:40:02 w00t, chatting from Mer now Dec 10 19:40:05 woo Dec 10 19:40:08 screenshots! Dec 10 19:40:40 midori works really fast Dec 10 19:40:45 :P Dec 10 19:40:46 video Dec 10 19:40:58 no video today... Dec 10 19:41:00 ah :P Dec 10 19:41:26 but screenshots Dec 10 19:42:16 this whole thing seems to be ..stable.. Dec 10 19:42:31 based on 5 minute test? Dec 10 19:42:32 scaringily Dec 10 19:42:39 thresh: i'm even surprised it lasts a minute. Dec 10 19:42:54 i was installing pidgin, browsing itt with midori and taking screenshots, not even close to crash Dec 10 19:43:20 and we dont even have swap on i guess Dec 10 19:43:33 who needs swap nowadays :) Dec 10 19:43:41 128mb ram tablets Dec 10 19:43:42 :P Dec 10 19:43:47 load-applet showed 3/4 memory Dec 10 19:44:03 i dont know if swap is enabled Dec 10 19:44:07 doubt it Dec 10 19:44:33 dmesg | grep swap ? Dec 10 19:45:19 cat /proc/swaps Dec 10 19:45:55 qwerty12_N800: since imager doesnt install swap in fstab, it doesnt get it probably :P Dec 10 19:47:17 Stskeeps, dunno, ke-recv doesn't update fstab but /media/mmc2/.swap is listed there still Dec 10 19:47:23 qwerty12_N800: no ke-recv yet :> Dec 10 19:47:40 it took some time to find out how to get the: | Dec 10 19:47:44 hehe Dec 10 19:47:48 but there is no output Dec 10 19:47:54 no swap then Dec 10 19:48:13 o_O Dec 10 19:48:16 Stskeeps, i know :), my point is more about it not updating fstab in general but /proc/swaps showing it Dec 10 19:48:45 deblet would have crashed if installing and browsing web at the same time Dec 10 19:49:12 qwerty12_N800: *nod* Dec 10 19:50:03 Meiz_n810: if you're able to do a midori video at some point, it'd be wonderful :) Dec 10 19:50:18 but i'm looking forward to seeing screenshots anyway Dec 10 19:50:47 yep Dec 10 19:50:58 uploading.... Dec 10 19:51:11 you even upload through mer? :P Dec 10 19:51:22 yep Dec 10 19:51:40 thresh: http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer <- very early alpha right now Dec 10 19:51:51 midori is faster than microb i think, but eats more memory Dec 10 19:51:56 possibly Dec 10 19:52:08 * Stskeeps would really prefer faster than slow and less memory Dec 10 19:52:12 i only have 1-2 windows anyway Dec 10 19:52:44 nice Dec 10 19:55:30 andrewfblack: same url as above to you.. why we need theming ;) Dec 10 19:56:06 Stskeeps: kicking off the log run Dec 10 19:56:33 r2d2rogers: alright, looking forward to seeing it Dec 10 19:58:44 r2d2rogers: could you verify 'imager' has the fake /usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d in it? Dec 10 19:58:54 as in, the line fake /usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d Dec 10 19:59:32 grr Dec 10 19:59:43 mm? Dec 10 19:59:51 picasaweb does not work with midori Dec 10 20:00:02 did not work in deblet too Dec 10 20:00:03 sec, lemme give you a scp to upload to Dec 10 20:00:09 k Dec 10 20:00:32 i will upload them to picasa later Dec 10 20:01:16 midori took 42mb mem when i tried picasa Dec 10 20:01:25 o_O Dec 10 20:03:52 yeah, gwt app prolly Dec 10 20:04:56 uploaded Dec 10 20:05:28 pidgin takes a lot of mem too Dec 10 20:05:52 xchat! :P Dec 10 20:06:05 http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/ Dec 10 20:06:12 Meiz_n810: midori fullscreen on its own? Dec 10 20:07:32 it is on top of hildon, what do you mean Dec 10 20:07:59 qwerty: there is no xchat for jaunty yet Dec 10 20:08:13 Meiz_n810: alright Dec 10 20:08:29 Meiz_n810: you can always try building the xchat one from maemo, but i suspect it uses browser headers.. Dec 10 20:08:44 i tried once Dec 10 20:08:49 Meiz_n810, ah :( Dec 10 20:09:07 i dont remember what went wrong... Dec 10 20:10:20 Stskeeps, shouldn't do. when i applied the hildon patches to 2.8.6, i'm pretty sure it just used a dbus call to bring up the browser like i do in transmission Dec 10 20:10:51 k Dec 10 20:11:17 Stskeeps: yes it does, line 73 Dec 10 20:12:06 r2d2rogers: k Dec 10 20:13:23 mm....synaptic :P Dec 10 20:15:02 something died? :P Dec 10 20:16:53 wb Dec 10 20:22:03 Anyone know the dookdook's email? Dec 10 20:22:15 He was asking at #gnu for a site where you could potentially bid on a project Dec 10 20:22:15 ~seen dookdook Dec 10 20:22:17 dookdook was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 206d 2h 46m 34s ago, saying: 'has anyone seen adn770?'. Dec 10 20:22:39 .. seems like it's a long time ago that person was in here Dec 10 20:22:40 shit! too much time Dec 10 20:22:51 and which project? Dec 10 20:23:31 hm, n800 diablo, how to enable on-screen keyboard after using USB one? Dec 10 20:23:35 I do not know. I am looking for him to report about the http://gnuherds.org/pledges Dec 10 20:23:39 project Dec 10 20:23:54 Maybe GNU Herds is what he is looking for ... Dec 10 20:24:16 mmkay Dec 10 20:27:29 oli: gconftool -t bool -s /system/osso/af/slide-open false Dec 10 20:27:43 that's what I use for OS2008HE Dec 10 20:28:33 oli: I have it in Personal Menu for when I need it Dec 10 20:29:20 r2d2rogers: thanks, will check it Dec 10 20:30:35 oli: np Dec 10 20:33:54 * Meiz_n810 will try to compile numptyphysics for Mer :P Dec 10 20:36:58 Meiz_n810: heh heh Dec 10 20:39:01 i can't Dec 10 20:39:12 one of its build deps: E: Couldn't find package libg11-mesa-dev Dec 10 20:39:34 did you people know that the company who invented American Idol and stuff, is called Freemantle Productions?. Dec 10 20:39:37 :P Dec 10 20:39:45 Stskeeps: yes Dec 10 20:39:49 Stskeeps: nothing new there Dec 10 20:40:05 Stskeeps: they do all the brainded tv stuff that keeps people in the sofa, not thinking Dec 10 20:40:23 like, the tablet that makes me stay in bed instead of going to work? Dec 10 20:40:24 :P Dec 10 20:40:25 ;> Dec 10 20:40:43 yes! Dec 10 20:42:47 Well i dont know whether this is the right place to ask this question, but from where can i get a nokia 810 tablet Dec 10 20:42:52 in INDIA Dec 10 20:43:09 its not here on the official website of nokia Dec 10 20:44:06 ask in a shop? :P Dec 10 20:44:14 order it from US? Dec 10 20:47:01 GeneralAntilles: any objections towards me advertising for meeting on iTT and m-d, and having meeting in #maemo-meeting? Dec 10 20:51:46 well getting it from us does not seems to be an option, high dollar price will rip me off :) Dec 10 20:53:41 high? its low here :P Dec 10 20:54:07 hong kong maybe Dec 10 20:54:20 but the dollar conversion rate is pretty high :P Dec 10 20:55:11 yeah getting it from outside is always an option, but i did expected that by this time it would be released here it self. Dec 10 20:55:37 I mean what is not common here opensource or nokia. None Dec 10 21:02:41 kartik, if OSS is not common, and nokia are not common, why did you think Nokias Open Source tablet would be plentiful? Dec 10 21:03:02 but you are best asking nokia themselves Dec 10 21:03:51 lcuk: i think he means the opposite Dec 10 21:03:57 lcuk, you get me wrong Dec 10 21:04:11 lcuk, yup i meant the opposite Dec 10 21:05:05 doh! well of course Dec 10 21:05:10 both of them are very very common here and that is why it surprises me that we dont have devices running on maemo over here Dec 10 21:05:18 * lcuk reverses everything someone says Dec 10 21:05:57 kartik, i also thought you could get them pretty much anywhere Dec 10 21:06:00 speak to nokia Dec 10 21:06:28 I might will Dec 10 21:06:55 does that mean you wont? Dec 10 21:07:15 No that means that i will Dec 10 21:07:21 * lcuk is confuddled, please ignore my whitterings tonight :P Dec 10 21:08:14 though i think that there wont be anyone in nokia that will even paid a heed to what i am saying Dec 10 21:08:40 kartik: you'd be surprised how much nokia hears Dec 10 21:08:54 well they will hear you, whether you get the answer you expect is another matter Dec 10 21:09:11 Stskeeps: I will be very surprised Dec 10 21:09:36 kartik: try a post on iTT, write it nicely, write the case for india, and you would probably get a response.. Dec 10 21:09:51 but do check if it's actually a market already Dec 10 21:10:05 kartik: nokia people hang out in here, on iTT, etc, so Dec 10 21:11:23 Stskeeps: Well there were many maemo stall with nokia 810 tablets in FOSS.in this year ( I was not there my self) Dec 10 21:12:06 And nokia may not even release it in the main market because right now may be only developers will be interested Dec 10 21:12:19 I will try on iTT Dec 10 21:12:40 well you people have blackberries.. so why not tablets Dec 10 21:14:05 though no iphones :P Dec 10 21:14:18 Yup, plus it will be great fun to run python scripts while my teacher is boring with her lectures Dec 10 21:14:54 ShadowJK: we have iphone here for some where arround $600+ officially Dec 10 21:14:57 heh, i have python installed on my phone too Dec 10 21:15:08 I want it too :( Dec 10 21:15:20 karbas, yeah I know apple tried, but nobody wanted it? :P Dec 10 21:15:48 Well for such a price no one will EVER want it Dec 10 21:15:49 I think $600 is the "real" retail price of iphone everywhere Dec 10 21:16:03 kartik: http://www.nseries.com/index.html#l=shop , contact some of the shops mentioned and hear? Dec 10 21:16:34 But of course in many countries the iphone is forcefully bundled with a contract, so you pay it 3 years and people are too stupid to figure out how much it costs :P Dec 10 21:16:49 ShadowJK: but it's only 199$ (not..) Dec 10 21:17:13 mental note: do not try to use tweezers as stylus Dec 10 21:17:32 heh Dec 10 21:17:34 lcuk, get a beer Dec 10 21:18:00 a beer wont help, ill just have a wet n810 and still not do any pointing with it Dec 10 21:18:00 that might put you to rest Dec 10 21:18:10 mind you, i could freeze the beer into an icycle Dec 10 21:18:25 lcuk: they sell/sold that in germany, i hear Dec 10 21:18:39 lcuk: beer icicles that had alco too Dec 10 21:18:41 beer lollies? Dec 10 21:18:52 ta for spelling :) it looked wrong but i couldnt suss it Dec 10 21:19:01 dunno if it's right :D Dec 10 21:19:10 yours looks righterer than mine :D Dec 10 21:19:18 i just remember the testicles reference from futurama Dec 10 21:19:35 test-sicles or something, name of some product Dec 10 21:20:08 WHOA! how did we get onto testicles? Dec 10 21:20:42 http://www.stefangeens.com/icycle.jpg Dec 10 21:20:53 from futurama reference, they were thinking of a name for popplers Dec 10 21:21:09 which remind me of poppers(a kind of sex enhancement drug you inhale) Dec 10 21:21:19 i should just shut up Dec 10 21:22:25 i just nearly dug a channel the size of the amazon across my lovely 810 Dec 10 21:23:33 Meiz_n810: how's Mer so far then? Dec 10 21:23:53 ah, asleep Dec 10 21:24:37 Stskeeps: I'm not seeing the errors this time Dec 10 21:24:45 still running Dec 10 21:24:46 r2d2rogers: interesting Dec 10 21:24:57 I'm guessing PEBKAC Dec 10 21:25:32 well, i guess you're not talking about the fact you're not seeing any output, only in log fil ;) Dec 10 21:25:44 lol Dec 10 21:25:56 correct, two ssh sessions, one tailing the log Dec 10 21:26:00 in .dk we call it error 40 .. problem exists about 40 cms from computer Dec 10 21:26:17 from your computer maybe :P Dec 10 21:27:54 and was used initially not to offend users when reporting back over the telephone Dec 10 21:27:55 :P Dec 10 21:28:10 <`0660> :P Dec 10 21:30:24 like and id 10 t error? Dec 10 21:30:38 hehe, yeah Dec 10 21:30:43 hmm just lost the tail ssh session Dec 10 21:30:50 remembered swap? :P Dec 10 21:30:59 was building local for GB-uk Dec 10 21:31:02 yup Dec 10 21:31:10 yeah.. that one is a bit rough Dec 10 21:31:11 wouldn't have gotten that far ;) Dec 10 21:31:12 also on n810s Dec 10 21:31:15 i dunno why Dec 10 21:32:13 i suspect we'd have qemus doing it for us eventually :P Dec 10 21:33:31 trying to decide what to do now... Dec 10 21:33:40 did it complete or? Dec 10 21:33:41 mm Dec 10 21:33:45 not sure Dec 10 21:34:04 Stskeeps, real English is more detailed :p Dec 10 21:34:04 but the only reason I had the other was due to screen being in copy mode... Dec 10 21:34:20 closing the terminal to look at the log Dec 10 21:35:09 k Dec 10 21:35:17 locale generation is one of the last things so Dec 10 21:36:05 it DRT Dec 10 21:36:08 died right there Dec 10 21:36:25 en_GB.UTF-8... -:~/mer-imager# Dec 10 21:36:35 no new line on that line Dec 10 21:36:38 ifrom the log Dec 10 21:36:47 eh Dec 10 21:37:00 sure it isn't running still? Dec 10 21:37:43 upload platform file and target somewhere for me, and i'll build a tar.gz on a qemu :P Dec 10 21:38:02 what would the process be names in top? Dec 10 21:38:08 dpkg ? Dec 10 21:38:24 s/names/named/ Dec 10 21:38:27 in this case, localgen Dec 10 21:38:28 in this case, localegen Dec 10 21:38:31 l Dec 10 21:38:33 k Dec 10 21:39:08 not running Dec 10 21:39:29 what does it need to do after the locale generation? Dec 10 21:39:45 I'm thinking I can kick that part off again with apt Dec 10 21:39:49 or dpkg Dec 10 21:40:10 sec Dec 10 21:40:13 yup Dec 10 21:41:59 the stuff in nokia_n800_postinstall() in platforms/n800 Dec 10 21:42:04 (nokia-n800) Dec 10 21:42:34 then Dec 10 21:42:35 unfake $TARGET/usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d Dec 10 21:42:35 115 unfake $TARGET/sbin/start-stop-daemon Dec 10 21:42:44 and umounting /proc and /dev/pts inside it Dec 10 21:44:05 as I thought PEBKAC Dec 10 21:44:22 I hadn't changed the variable names in those to match the nokia_770 platform file Dec 10 21:44:33 that would cause issues yes? Dec 10 21:44:36 .. maybe Dec 10 21:44:52 in any case, upload them somewhere and i'll put them in imager Dec 10 21:46:29 will do Dec 10 21:46:38 I started with a git repo for changes Dec 10 21:46:44 so that should be easy Dec 10 21:46:58 might give it one more go Dec 10 21:47:13 do you have an account on github ot gitorious? Dec 10 21:47:23 nop, we use bzr (right now, will switch to git) Dec 10 21:47:31 lo yerga Dec 10 21:49:22 * r2d2rogers needs to figure out launchpad stuff anyhow Dec 10 21:49:32 evening! Dec 10 21:53:56 * Stskeeps ponders if there's buildd alternatives Dec 10 21:56:21 * lardman suggests bitbake ;) Dec 10 21:56:33 :P Dec 10 21:58:45 Stskeeps: a small shell script and pbuilder is enough if you just have one build machine Dec 10 21:59:21 mm, yeah, but in this case preferably more Dec 10 22:00:33 with more machines, with a rewrite you'll soon end up with something as complex Dec 10 22:00:37 * suihkulokki tried once :P Dec 10 22:03:04 * Stskeeps too Dec 10 22:03:04 :P Dec 10 22:03:13 though it was more like a production line Dec 10 22:08:05 ubuntu appears to run something custom with bits borrowed from sbuild/buildd Dec 10 22:10:09 Stskeeps: maybe that would bend for your use: http://julien.danjou.info/rebuildd/ Dec 10 22:10:14 * lcuk drops an anvil on woglinde Dec 10 22:10:19 he Dec 10 22:10:23 dont do that Dec 10 22:10:37 this gonna hurts Dec 10 22:11:12 nahhhh :D its an acme anvil Dec 10 22:13:17 how you doing woglinde Dec 10 22:15:48 Stskeeps, nice! Dec 10 22:19:21 lcuk hm could be better Dec 10 22:20:05 mmmn :( not good Dec 10 22:20:10 you are normally chirpy Dec 10 22:29:42 whats the current diablo release number? Dec 10 22:30:22 4.1.1 I think Dec 10 22:32:00 4.1.2 or 4.2008.36-5 Dec 10 22:32:12 oh well :) Dec 10 22:33:17 4.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.43.6.7.1999.2013 Dec 10 22:33:51 ouch, i'm still running 4.2008.30-2 Dec 10 22:34:17 heh Dec 10 22:43:47 wow, the fw image is slow to donwload Dec 10 23:02:50 Stskeeps: what's the baking the image section in the imager script? Dec 10 23:07:03 if I were using the sqlite3_column_int64(); command to retrieve data from an sqlite db, what format would I save it as? Dec 10 23:07:56 Stskeeps: I actually have a home_ap_home_view now. Dec 10 23:08:14 Stskeeps: but the touchscreen doesn't work... Dec 10 23:09:18 lardman, int64? Dec 10 23:10:01 r2d2rogers: no baking for only-fs, fabolous x starts and hildon too Dec 10 23:10:24 lcuk: no, apparently INTEGER is the one, so I see from someone else's code Dec 10 23:10:41 touchscreen.. i guess we have to look at tlib Dec 10 23:10:55 libxsp Dec 10 23:10:55 Stskeeps: watching again, I got that far by going through console Dec 10 23:11:14 Stskeeps, thats the touch interface in use on current device Dec 10 23:11:17 tome for me to head home Dec 10 23:12:00 alright - you are running an modern xorg atm:) Dec 10 23:12:08 \o/ Dec 10 23:12:50 i suspect it is in xorg.conf we fix ot Dec 10 23:12:56 it Dec 10 23:13:23 I think it didn't have fstab and xorg.conf the last tiem I attempted Dec 10 23:13:25 hi there Dec 10 23:13:52 I think this might end up useable on this install, but I have another card to play with to tweak the scripts up Dec 10 23:14:18 later,.. Dec 11 00:06:08 night! Dec 11 00:13:15 yeah Dec 11 00:13:19 new maemo-tools ncurses have color :D Dec 11 00:13:27 finally, more syntax highlighting in vom Dec 11 00:13:31 *vim Dec 11 00:17:02 and touchscreen support improved, what a nice bonus Dec 11 00:18:56 AStorm: that maemo 5 or diablo? Dec 11 00:19:08 diablo Dec 11 00:19:26 I just got Mer partially booting on my 770 Dec 11 00:19:42 mer != maemo 5 Dec 11 00:19:47 right Dec 11 00:19:57 just giving you a where i'm at reference Dec 11 00:20:04 anyway, back to coding Dec 11 00:20:13 mer has that correct probably Dec 11 00:20:26 ... Cool Dec 11 00:20:34 that will be great Dec 11 00:20:43 as it has separate ncurses Dec 11 00:26:36 AStorm, what do you code? Dec 11 00:26:56 i dont think ive ever seen one of your projects (though i probably have if you know what i mean) Dec 11 00:32:13 good nite Dec 11 00:44:26 lcuk2, now, writing a handwriting recognizer Dec 11 00:44:31 yes, that one Dec 11 00:44:59 no git tree as of yet due to too many major changes for history to be of any use Dec 11 00:45:19 that's the actual reason why I'm not experimenting with mer Dec 11 00:57:59 astorm the proper system one? Dec 11 00:58:31 yes, in a later perspective Dec 11 00:58:43 right now I'm getting the engine done Dec 11 00:58:50 and im impressed :) i have the core recognition functions for my attempt inside liqbase - i know ive gone the wrong way with mine though Dec 11 00:59:05 and not infringing any patents (khem M$) Dec 11 00:59:18 i once made one in vb which was much friendlier Dec 11 00:59:18 lcuk2, which way? heuristics? Dec 11 01:00:19 mine abuses statistical methods + some denoising Dec 11 01:00:43 the current stroke class has a method to extract its quadchain. i normalise the stroke and overlay a 5x5 grid over the top. each position on the grid passed over as the stroke commences results in a string Dec 11 01:00:46 because stupid M$ got a patent on neural nets for that :/ Dec 11 01:01:04 ahha, quantization Dec 11 01:01:25 I had that in the first try, fails badly sometimes :> Dec 11 01:01:33 the older vb method uses polar coords instead Dec 11 01:01:36 yeah it does Dec 11 01:01:38 thus settled to angle+length Dec 11 01:01:40 the polar one was better Dec 11 01:01:47 exactly Dec 11 01:01:53 :) Dec 11 01:02:12 only need to have a lower bpund on length Dec 11 01:02:26 so that angle is meaningful Dec 11 01:02:49 yeah, it worked quite nicely, i did skipping and only measured at some boundary i believe Dec 11 01:03:03 hm Dec 11 01:03:18 thats the fuzzy bit, it was about 4 years ago Dec 11 01:03:21 the more important is matching, yup Dec 11 01:03:27 patent galore Dec 11 01:04:03 my aim for now is to replace epitext with less suck :) Dec 11 01:04:05 yeah and i took it that i might as well have equal sized branches - so i forced it to work on something like 4 pixels (or mm or whatever it was in) Dec 11 01:04:44 so even though the stroke had many or few points making up that block i counted along until i got to the break point Dec 11 01:04:57 yes Dec 11 01:05:16 but the main feature matching, what was its algorithm? Dec 11 01:05:30 neural? fuzzy? decision tree? Dec 11 01:05:34 i just had a tree (everything i think of is in trees of some sort) Dec 11 01:05:35 statistical? Dec 11 01:05:45 mhm, decision tree then Dec 11 01:06:01 I dislike them, as they can get into a wrong branch and hang Dec 11 01:06:03 :P Dec 11 01:06:16 yeah of course, just like a compiler Dec 11 01:06:34 thus, I went with statistical, as neural is slower and patented Dec 11 01:06:48 vote-based system should work fine Dec 11 01:06:58 (aka Winnow) Dec 11 01:07:15 well ive got tonnes of sketches of my handwriting now - i can get the similar strokes quite effectively and map them to utterances (even multi letter cursive) Dec 11 01:07:38 sketches = not code? Dec 11 01:07:40 but thats just another sidebranch :) Dec 11 01:07:40 :) Dec 11 01:07:44 ah Dec 11 01:07:59 ok, well, I'm fixing ui now Dec 11 01:08:18 python, pygtk for rapid(er) development Dec 11 01:08:22 astorm, ive got 1000's of sketches in liqbase, these first few are my training ground, i have always wanted to make use of them - i keep every vector Dec 11 01:08:29 mhm Dec 11 01:08:40 nice, I will need testcases later Dec 11 01:09:00 it grows everyday :) i love it for its rapidness at that Dec 11 01:09:18 i think we will have more before too long Dec 11 01:10:10 anyway :) nice to know people are working on the HWR :) let me know if theres anything I might be able to help with Dec 11 01:10:22 * lcuk2 vanishes again Dec 11 01:10:22 hmm.,, not yet Dec 11 01:10:27 cya later astorm Dec 11 01:20:01 * timeless tries slurping the fremantle sdk Dec 11 01:20:06 sadly this seems to work Dec 11 01:21:05 sadly? Dec 11 01:21:53 well, now i have to actually do work w/ it Dec 11 01:22:00 and i have 2 distinct ways to do it Dec 11 01:22:03 one i like, and one that works Dec 11 01:22:14 so now i have to either use the one that works or fix the one i like Dec 11 01:24:56 :P Dec 11 01:32:46 they're fairly close, except that they're doing somewhat different things Dec 11 01:32:56 and they diverged about a year ago :) Dec 11 01:33:16 (both were written in /bin/sh originally, but one was rewritten in /bin/perl Dec 11 01:35:43 oh man, that's confusing Dec 11 01:35:46 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Jul 17 2006 /bin -> ./usr/bin Dec 11 01:35:54 no wonder i can do /bin/perl :) Dec 11 01:36:39 timeless, /usr/bin/env perl Dec 11 01:36:50 this fails only on antique solaris Dec 11 01:37:03 debian@swift:~% uname -a Dec 11 01:37:03 SunOS swift 5.11 snv_53 i86pc i386 i86pc Dec 11 01:37:34 doesn't seem to work particularly well on my solaris Dec 11 01:37:46 with a startup time like this, i don't need enemies Dec 11 01:38:09 * timeless woudl die of old age Dec 11 01:38:15 ouch Dec 11 01:38:29 try type -p perl Dec 11 01:38:36 this tends to work Dec 11 01:38:50 debian@swift:~% type -p perl Dec 11 01:38:50 perl is /usr/bin/perl Dec 11 01:39:02 damn Dec 11 01:39:04 and yes, debian is a user, but it's a strange user Dec 11 01:39:06 :> Dec 11 01:39:10 debian@swift:~% which apt-get Dec 11 01:39:10 /home/debian/bin/apt-get Dec 11 01:39:16 debian@swift:~% which dpkg Dec 11 01:39:16 /home/debian/bin/dpkg Dec 11 01:39:43 which is non-standard Dec 11 01:39:45 :/ Dec 11 01:39:54 it has enough pieces from nexenta in order to do interesting things Dec 11 01:40:05 I can't recall which type option dropped path only Dec 11 01:40:25 maybe big -P Dec 11 01:40:32 type takes no args according to the man page Dec 11 01:40:42 hmmmh Dec 11 01:40:50 gnuism galore Dec 11 01:40:52 :/ Dec 11 01:41:17 anyway, #!perl should work Dec 11 01:41:24 debian@swift:~% /usr/bin/type -p perl Dec 11 01:41:24 /usr/bin/type[8]: type: bad option(s) Dec 11 01:41:34 no path necessary, unless it's security code Dec 11 01:41:39 $HOME/bin/perl should work too :) Dec 11 01:41:45 let the owner deal w/ it :) Dec 11 01:41:46 nah Dec 11 01:42:07 anyway, changing /bin/perl to /usr/bin/perl so it would run on linxu wasn't a big deal Dec 11 01:42:19 nor was changing /usr/sfw/bin/wget to /usr/bin/wget :) Dec 11 01:44:32 #!whget Dec 11 01:44:40 will work Dec 11 01:44:44 ?! Dec 11 01:44:49 drop the path unless security Dec 11 01:44:51 #!wget Dec 11 01:45:12 oh, i can't Dec 11 01:45:16 why? Dec 11 01:45:21 PATH is often empty or similarly useless :) Dec 11 01:45:32 then fix it Dec 11 01:45:32 it's not quite security, more about working w/ various strange worlds Dec 11 01:45:38 as shell is useless then Dec 11 01:45:40 nah, each script has its own quirks Dec 11 01:45:40 :) Dec 11 01:45:48 shell doesn't do anything Dec 11 01:45:55 it's a user called debian on sun solaris :) Dec 11 01:46:05 it's not a user called timeless on nexenta (debian solaris) Dec 11 01:46:16 no shrc? or profile file? Dec 11 01:46:32 typically it's not interesting Dec 11 01:46:45 and my scripts hop from user to user often enough Dec 11 01:46:50 anyway, it's no big deal Dec 11 01:48:59 * timeless ponders Dec 11 01:56:34 hmm Dec 11 01:56:53 any nice way to hildonize a terminal app? Dec 11 01:57:33 esp. irssi Dec 11 01:57:49 I want activity notification Dec 11 01:58:08 and button support (zoom button to switch tags) Dec 11 02:03:53 also, mouse support Dec 11 02:36:31 * timeless grumbles Dec 11 02:36:32 zsh: segmentation fault (core dumped) apt-cache -c /home/debian/apt-sb-g.conf search **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 11 02:59:57 2008