**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 27 02:59:57 2008 Dec 27 02:59:58 a poor attempt at a joke? Dec 27 03:00:03 s/it's/its/ Dec 27 03:00:03 GAN800 meant: Then why are you talking like its shipping is in doubt? Dec 27 03:00:08 OK Dec 27 03:00:26 Pupnik:did you stop this project http://pupnik.de/daimonin_770.html Dec 27 03:00:29 i usually try to indicate such with a smiley of some sort at the end... Dec 27 03:01:06 MicroB can't scroll and Modest can't cut'n'paste Dec 27 03:01:10 * GAN800 sighs Dec 27 03:01:22 huh? Dec 27 03:01:30 when did modest develop that issue? Dec 27 03:02:07 I can't manage to copy more than one line of a multi-line selection out of it. Dec 27 03:02:34 hmm, thats odd... Dec 27 03:02:37 There's also no tap'n'hold menu for it Dec 27 03:02:40 GAN: its all about mad skills lol... Dec 27 03:02:46 What a half-baked mess. Dec 27 03:03:39 True true Dec 27 03:06:27 heh, for me, the old mail client with the gui refinments of modest would have done nicely... Dec 27 03:06:46 but now it seems its either this or claws (a step back in the gui department) Dec 27 03:09:12 merkuralex: yes Dec 27 03:09:33 Okay. Dec 27 03:20:20 android Dec 27 03:21:35 ? Dec 27 03:21:39 any1 running open office on n800 Dec 27 03:23:03 I had it running for a bit then deleted debian... Dec 27 03:25:42 If I'm creating a 4GB /home/user on a mmc card should I use ext3 or jffs2? Dec 27 03:26:54 ext3, jffs2 is only useful on raw flash, mmc's have wear balancing and similar built in, iirc... Dec 27 03:28:18 t_s_o, ok thanks Dec 27 03:28:40 just be warned, im no expert in the field Dec 27 03:35:02 t_o_s is correct. ;) Dec 27 03:35:13 s/o_s/s_o/ Dec 27 03:35:13 GAN800 meant: t_s_o is correct. ;) Dec 27 03:42:11 heh, something tells me i should consider investing in a new bluetooth dongle for my desktop Dec 27 03:52:09 could anyone teach me / point me to a guide.. to share my nokia's wifi with my computer? Dec 27 03:52:17 any uhh OS would be fine Dec 27 03:52:51 basically turning the tablet into a wifi dongle? Dec 27 03:53:32 yup Dec 27 03:53:49 probably should of worded it that way Dec 27 03:53:57 would it not be easier to just get one of those dongles? Dec 27 03:54:05 that would cost money? Dec 27 03:54:24 im a highschool student, i dont have money Dec 27 03:54:29 i just recently bought 4gb too Dec 27 03:54:34 (4gb ram) Dec 27 03:55:11 i got bluetooth for my pc .. by usb.. if that would help? Dec 27 03:55:46 High school students should have tons of money Dec 27 03:55:58 All income is basically disposable. Dec 27 03:56:05 not me Dec 27 03:56:08 im 17 too Dec 27 03:56:11 something tells me one could get a wifi dongle for less then those 4GB of ram... Dec 27 03:56:22 no not really Dec 27 03:56:24 maybe, but ram is dirt cheap Dec 27 03:56:25 i got it for $28 Dec 27 03:56:26 4gb ram Dec 27 03:56:35 today it would of been cheaper though -.- damn boxing day Dec 27 03:56:38 Get a job Dec 27 03:56:41 i have a jo0b Dec 27 03:56:49 i work in a grocery store :) Dec 27 03:56:49 Work more hours Dec 27 03:56:54 lol not a option Dec 27 03:56:58 what is this #maemo or #lectureHighschoolers Dec 27 03:57:10 proteous: i need to use nokia as a wifi dongle Dec 27 03:57:13 anyways, anyone know if the tablet can do NAT? if some i guess this should be possible Dec 27 03:57:16 and they are telling me just to buy a wifi dongle Dec 27 03:57:30 and im saying i have no money for one Dec 27 03:57:35 How about #berateProteous Dec 27 03:57:43 yes, anything is possible, but I don't think there is currently a simple way to do it Dec 27 03:57:54 yeah i do know anything is possible Dec 27 03:58:01 but i was looking for a simple way of course Dec 27 03:58:19 Proteous, your puns are underwhelming and your tablet hates you. :p Dec 27 03:58:25 heh Dec 27 03:58:29 or maybe NAT is not needed, but behing able to forward packages will... Dec 27 03:58:44 i have a old p3 933mhz that i want to either give to the mer project or something or just use for myself if they dont want it.. and only thing thats missing is internet connection to it and wired wouldnt work ( too far of a cable ) Dec 27 03:59:12 Send a forwarding address to the post office Dec 27 04:04:41 t_s_o, I'm not convinced Finger keyboard is the right component, but I'm on a tablet and too lazy to poke around for a better one. Dec 27 04:22:41 huh? Dec 27 04:23:36 heh, yep it could be wrong. sometimes its hard to figure out where to put them... Dec 27 04:52:26 hi, im formating a 8g mcard, whats better, ext2 or fat32? Dec 27 04:54:05 depends on how you plan to use it. if you expect to plug it into a windows machine some time in the future, go with fat Dec 27 04:55:58 i dont expect to use any windows machine, should i go for ext2? what about ext2 vs ext3? Dec 27 04:58:32 well fat is the "linuga franca" of storage media, just about anything can read the format. as for the diff between the ext versions, mostly that the latter has a journal built in for faster file system checks upon power outages or similar... Dec 27 05:01:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_system_comparison Dec 27 05:01:50 ight, ima take a read, thanks Dec 27 05:05:30 I managed to get the PSP port of Windows95 working with dosbox :) - witch uses DBS (dosbox boot selector) Dec 27 05:06:33 i had to make a "/PSP/GAMES/" directory on my mmc to get it to work though. Dec 27 05:07:18 why... would you ever want win95 Dec 27 05:07:35 just as an experiment Dec 27 05:07:56 that works Dec 27 05:08:05 lol Dec 27 05:08:12 win95 has nothing ;p Dec 27 05:08:24 lol i know Dec 27 05:09:00 win95 makes your n800 look like a jornada Dec 27 05:09:07 :) Dec 27 05:09:14 think the android port is cooler ;p Dec 27 05:09:28 definitely Dec 27 05:10:44 wish it worked alot better though Dec 27 05:10:50 i guess time will help Dec 27 05:11:29 i'm still waiting on his boot selector Dec 27 05:11:41 im still waiting for stability ;p Dec 27 05:14:58 at least it doesn't crash as often as it use to. ;) Dec 27 05:15:10 they need easydroid Dec 27 05:15:42 if only we had a java vurtual machine... Dec 27 05:16:57 they have easydroid or well did lol Dec 27 05:17:01 of the very old android Dec 27 05:20:23 that me, qwerty12 and panguinbait created... - i don't think that people credited me verry much in that project - i'm the one who started the "easy install" android project. Dec 27 05:20:41 oh Dec 27 05:20:46 it was you too? :P lol Dec 27 05:21:10 :P Dec 27 05:26:24 it looks like fennec alpha2 has been released - http://www.mozilla.org/projects/fennec/1.0a2/releasenotes/ Dec 27 05:35:19 you test it yet? Dec 27 05:38:28 gah. how do i send âan alt via the sliding kbd Dec 27 05:38:45 good luck Dec 27 05:39:14 in the terminal app I just use the shortcut Dec 27 05:39:21 or avoid using alt Dec 27 05:39:35 shortcut? Dec 27 05:39:46 the shortcut bar Dec 27 05:39:54 wow Dec 27 05:39:57 i needd aalt for finchh Dec 27 05:39:58 fennec alpha 2 is way better Dec 27 05:40:16 fennec? Dec 27 05:40:26 yes Dec 27 05:41:21 i see control... no alt. Dec 27 05:42:05 man, i really need to figure out how to pair my rocketfish with this thing Dec 27 05:43:05 fennec alpha 2 is awesome Dec 27 05:43:07 rocketfish? Dec 27 05:43:15 kbd Dec 27 05:43:21 bluetooth Dec 27 05:45:06 anyone know where i might find a helpful tutorial? Dec 27 05:46:15 if it does hid profile it should be fairly straightforward Dec 27 05:46:42 fennec isnt rly an option. i like to keep logs... Dec 27 05:46:48 well... Dec 27 05:46:51 downloading fennec alpha 2 now :D Dec 27 05:46:56 on nokia Dec 27 05:47:08 alpha 1 suckedddd Dec 27 05:47:54 i just biught my vfirst bt device and accessories today... so i dont know what im doing Dec 27 05:48:19 go into control panel on nokia Dec 27 05:48:22 and goto bluetooth keyboard Dec 27 05:48:32 turn on bluetooth on nokia, Dec 27 05:48:49 did that Dec 27 05:48:58 it keeps failing Dec 27 05:49:09 is your keyboard in "search" Dec 27 05:49:12 like keyboard turned on? Dec 27 05:49:15 taking a rly long time then... fail Dec 27 05:49:22 yea Dec 27 05:49:40 try to see if your nokia can recognize it as a device Dec 27 05:49:44 not as a keyboard Dec 27 05:49:48 ive had rf before, but not bt Dec 27 05:49:53 yea Dec 27 05:49:55 rf? Dec 27 05:50:08 radio frequency Dec 27 05:50:11 it has a name and a passcode Dec 27 05:50:31 but it still fails Dec 27 05:51:20 ok, does the bluetooth icon show on the tablet? looks like some rune B Dec 27 05:51:34 yes Dec 27 05:51:37 what themes do you people use for maemo? Dec 27 05:51:57 ok, tap it, then settings, devices, new Dec 27 05:52:03 yep Dec 27 05:52:06 yep Dec 27 05:52:34 now it will be searching for new devices ever so often, there is probably some button or other on the keyboard for activating pairing mode Dec 27 05:52:51 hold said button down and wait for the keyboard to show up on the list of devices Dec 27 05:53:32 or maybe just press the button to activate pairing mode, it will depend on product... Dec 27 05:53:45 holding is fail Dec 27 05:53:55 ok Dec 27 05:54:22 hit n release is fail Dec 27 05:54:47 i tried to solo the troubleshooting earlier Dec 27 05:54:49 anyways, eitehr the passcode is 0000, 1234, or has to be entered into the keyboard number keys, possibly followed by enter Dec 27 05:55:10 whoa Dec 27 05:55:17 what? Dec 27 05:56:34 ones the keyboard shows up in the "new device" window, selecting it and tapping ok will bring up a dialog with a passcode and a checkbox for "thrusted device", said passcode should be either 0000, 1234, or the random number shown will need to be entered into the keyboard by hitting its number keys Dec 27 05:56:52 and leave the checkbox alone ;) Dec 27 05:57:01 oh Dec 27 05:57:03 ok Dec 27 05:57:05 thx Dec 27 05:57:32 at least those are the most common variants Dec 27 05:57:55 will try when i get home Dec 27 05:58:12 the code is kinda like a secret handshake so that both devices knows that the same user is in front of both of them... Dec 27 05:59:20 still, those classical 0000 or 1234 makes that less secret, and have led to some "interesting" tricks being played on handsfrees and other devices... Dec 27 06:03:11 i'm going to bed, see you guys tomorrow :) Dec 27 06:33:49 ,you guys are the best!! Dec 27 06:34:21 i has a kbd Dec 27 06:35:17 but... how do i authdnticate an earpiece Dec 27 06:37:37 mostly the same process Dec 27 06:38:13 altho i suspect the code will be 0000, but check the manual on it to be sure Dec 27 06:41:38 0000 Dec 27 06:41:49 thx!! Dec 27 06:43:51 your welcome Dec 27 07:10:22 * RST38h yawns Dec 27 07:15:13 "He invented a device using chemical substances available in Gaza, which burn when mixed and brought into contact with oxygen. " Dec 27 07:15:35 * RST38h wonders what those substances are. Must be plastite. Dec 27 07:23:55 hey, is there anyway to move an application to another menu? (from extras to internet)? Dec 27 07:24:22 hi RST38h Dec 27 07:24:37 ~curse scratchbox for fucking with python & perl Dec 27 07:24:38 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, scratchbox for fucking with python & perl ! Dec 27 07:25:02 hey, is there anyway to move an application to another menu? (from extras to internet)? Dec 27 07:27:13 * qwerty12 grumbles and resorts to exporting SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE Dec 27 07:27:52 samd, Control Panel > Panels > Organise Dec 27 07:28:07 qwerty12 ight thanks Dec 27 07:32:38 qwerty12 u post alot on internettablettalk? i remember seeing your name there, or am i confused? Dec 27 07:32:46 samd, yes :/ Dec 27 07:32:52 (I post a lot there) Dec 27 07:33:43 qwerty12 yeah, i readed that forums for about 2 weeks, (ordered my n810 for cristmas, and could wait, so i spend most of my free time reading tips, about apps etc xD Dec 27 07:34:27 even installed SDK without the tablet xD Dec 27 07:34:32 heh, I read a lot while I waited for my N800 to arrive. Soon as it arrived, I updated it to chinook :P Dec 27 07:34:37 Nice :D Dec 27 07:35:03 yeah pretty good tablets Dec 27 07:40:02 strong and stable defines nits for me Dec 27 07:41:08 agree Dec 27 07:41:51 heya, qerty Dec 27 07:41:59 qwerty, sorry Dec 27 07:42:22 my n800 has replaced my laptop in many tasks Dec 27 07:43:13 i never could send sms through my phone :( yet.. Dec 27 07:44:36 the n800 is awesome Dec 27 07:44:43 I want an n805 Dec 27 07:44:50 without gps, but with a keyboard and 2 sd slots Dec 27 07:44:59 lol Dec 27 07:45:38 http://www.sale0086.com/nike-shoes/jordan-shoes_Nokia%20N805.html Dec 27 07:46:35 ha Dec 27 07:48:32 Well, I got Maemo XChat to play nicely with python, perl is a no no. Can't decide if it's the xchat buildscripts messing me around or scratchbox with its perl devkit. Dec 27 07:49:18 * disco_stu_N800 is using xchat right now Dec 27 07:51:19 screw perl, i dont think there is anything on the tablets that use it anyways ;) Dec 27 07:51:51 Vulcanis: i would trade my N800 for one of those 805's in a instant ;) Dec 27 07:51:57 Hehe, probably because perl-modules is a nice ~20MB (well, the package anyway) ;) Dec 27 07:52:08 Perl isn't of much use on the tablets, true Dec 27 07:52:24 Very useful on the desktop for data processing Dec 27 07:52:47 in other words, hit it with a --without-perl and leave it at that ;) Dec 27 07:54:11 hehe, yeah. Linker's complaining that it can't find -lperl. SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE and setting PATH=/usr/bin:$PATH isn't helping me. I could remove the internal perl devkit locally on my sbox install but I don't think that would work with the autobuilder ;) Dec 27 07:55:17 [02:51:30] Vulcanis: i would trade my N800 for one of those 805's in a instant ;) -- it should also have a 770 case Dec 27 07:55:56 heh, toss in a proper dpad and extra buttons for gaming, while your at it Dec 27 07:57:14 qwerty: So, are you compiling XChat and it requires libperl? Dec 27 07:57:34 qwerty: Then you can probably turn perl support off before compilation Dec 27 07:57:45 RST38h, yes and not any more because I set it to --disable-perl :) Dec 27 07:57:52 Hehe Dec 27 07:57:55 KILL! Dec 27 07:57:59 Shame a lot of xchat scripts are written in perl :/ Dec 27 07:58:41 pfft, vnc to a computer running xchat/ssh to one running irssi Dec 27 07:58:51 who needs scripts.... Dec 27 07:59:56 "Can the Auto Industry Retool Itself To Build Rails?" (C)Slashdot Dec 27 08:00:38 * RST38h just loves how those Slashdotters lack any sense of humor. "Enthusiastic but dull". Dec 27 08:02:00 Does anyone happen to know if the built in backup tool backs up xchat settings? If not, I may as well write up a quick config for osso-backup... Dec 27 08:04:03 Don't think so Dec 27 08:04:14 Ok, thanks Dec 27 08:04:37 * qwerty12 prefers mkfs.jffs2 to osso-backup so :/ Dec 27 08:26:01 qwerty12, are you still here? Dec 27 08:26:06 Vulcanis, yep Dec 27 08:27:19 you played w/ xchat; do you think that you could get, say, a highlight to flash the led? Dec 27 08:28:53 It probably could be done with a xchat script quite easily, I did it for the load applet once but it was a extremely dirty hack which used system() to run dbus-send Dec 27 08:29:28 But I would like that too come think of it, it would free a icon slot on my system tray :) Dec 27 08:31:41 nothing wrong with system() Dec 27 08:32:17 But there are so much better ways to send a dbus call in C (not that I actually know how to use any of them) :) Dec 27 08:32:55 not really Dec 27 08:33:12 'cause you will have to init the library, etc Dec 27 08:38:31 how can i get my n800 to recognize usb devices Dec 27 08:39:12 also; how much power would xchat drain w/ screen off? would wifi hate me enough to make a significant dent? and... is there a way to make my keyboard autocom@ Dec 27 08:39:35 complete not apply to just xchat Dec 27 08:40:06 er disabled for just xchat Dec 27 08:43:43 You could set the hildon_input_mode in the source code to be HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_FULL rather than HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_DICTIONARY but I like the predictive text as I use a stylus and I won't be disabling Dec 27 08:44:09 s/disabling/disabling it in any builds I make/ Dec 27 08:44:09 qwerty12 meant: You could set the hildon_input_mode in the source code to be HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_FULL rather than HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_DICTIONARY but I like the predictive text as I use a stylus and I won't be disabling it in any builds I make Dec 27 08:44:31 well, it is eww for me Dec 27 08:45:02 because stupid words cover my fscking space Dec 27 08:45:04 qwerty12: think JK complained it didn Dec 27 08:45:05 't Dec 27 08:45:08 (xchat, backup) Dec 27 08:45:36 Stskeeps, thanks, I confirmed it. I've made a config file which backs up the settings minus the logs Dec 27 08:45:43 tested it out and I restored fine Dec 27 08:46:27 goodie Dec 27 08:46:36 (was osso-backup OSS or closed?) Dec 27 08:46:44 like right there. for 'because', it said 'bejeesus' and covered hakf the space... when i typed bejeesus ONCE after buying the device T.T Dec 27 08:47:06 Stskeeps, closed source but you can extend it with a list of files you want backed up by placing a conf file in /etc/osso-backup/applications Dec 27 08:47:15 *nod* Dec 27 08:47:54 it also likes adding 'ed' and 'ly' after words ending in ly and ed Dec 27 08:48:15 right there, it reccimmended 'endinging' Dec 27 08:48:21 x29a_N810: enjoying your tablet? :> Dec 27 08:48:29 Vulcanis: a good word Dec 27 08:48:29 :P Dec 27 08:48:39 Stskeeps. Yeah Dec 27 08:48:56 But missing the tab key for autocompletion Dec 27 08:49:00 hehe Dec 27 08:49:08 it is, but not when on half of my spacebar :/ Dec 27 08:49:08 i have that on osk i think :P Dec 27 08:49:13 true Dec 27 08:49:36 Plus some other llittle things that are not perfect yet Dec 27 08:49:51 x29a_N810 there is something that reassigns something to tab. Dec 27 08:50:08 For example maemo-mapper complains about not beeing able to connect to the gpsd Dec 27 08:50:22 disable the connection? :P Dec 27 08:50:37 Vulcanis: since its linux i guess there is a way Dec 27 08:50:48 is there a way to move the side the typing prediction crap stacks? Dec 27 08:50:58 Disable which connection? Dec 27 08:51:03 x29a_N810: gpsd one :P Dec 27 08:51:05 settings Dec 27 08:51:24 x29a_N810: even if it's linux it is a closed source thing :P Dec 27 08:51:24 x29a_N810, to use internal gps, you set it to bluetooth and leave the address blank Dec 27 08:51:39 i have not used xchat on this in a yr and this is bad :/ Dec 27 08:51:55 Connection settings or global settings? Dec 27 08:52:09 Ah, i set it to /dev/pgps Dec 27 08:52:14 Lemme try Dec 27 08:53:52 This seems to be one way of getting tab: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=236966&postcount=13 Dec 27 08:53:52 Another thing Dec 27 08:54:07 Sorry for bugging with newbie qquestions Dec 27 08:54:29 Slightly fascinating: http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2008/nov/15/yehey/top_stories/20081115top5.html Dec 27 08:54:30 But is there a way to organize the symbols on the left? Dec 27 08:54:45 yeah Dec 27 08:55:04 ctrl panel > panels Dec 27 08:55:18 I wonna get rid of the people standing there and put my most used apps there Dec 27 08:55:19 qwerty12: neat Dec 27 08:55:23 then just drag those around Dec 27 08:55:42 x29: there is. Dec 27 08:55:52 x29a_N810: get 'personal menu' then Dec 27 08:55:54 x29a_N810, http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmaemo.org%2Fdownloads%2Fproduct%2FOS2008%2Fpersonal-menu%2F&ei=k-1VSfPlJ9SujAeF-uitDw&usg=AFQjCNErzznVcm8CWd7BxVVOxfnHcGGD3Q&sig2=4JJGZDgbbhMmHdntesMIUw Dec 27 08:55:59 the app Dec 27 08:56:01 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/personal-menu/ Dec 27 08:56:01 From Panels config dialog, and install Personal Menu instead Dec 27 08:56:08 fucking google click tracking Dec 27 08:56:09 Ok Dec 27 08:56:44 Duh, maemo mapper found the gps, awesome Dec 27 08:56:47 Grr, I need CustomizeGoogle again so I can get rid of that crap and spit in the spaz who made it Dec 27 08:56:59 Should i start agps before i run maemo? Dec 27 08:57:11 Sorry? Dec 27 08:57:14 Before you start maemo-mapper? Yes. Dec 27 08:57:21 Sry Dec 27 08:57:32 Typing lazyness Dec 27 08:57:57 The topp row beeing so close to the border is a bit annoying Dec 27 08:58:04 Heh, I'm lazy when typing on the tablet. (Though some could argue that I'm lazy typing on the computer :P) Dec 27 08:58:22 But thats the only thing i dont like about the hardware Dec 27 08:58:43 Furthermore complaining in the softwarechannel wont help .) Dec 27 08:59:08 atleast you have one. Dec 27 08:59:34 Keyboard? Dec 27 09:00:49 yes Dec 27 09:00:59 That internyl mmc card, is that soldered in or could you slam some 8gig in? Dec 27 09:01:09 Vulcanis. True Dec 27 09:02:18 Is sudser he way to go for rootrights? Dec 27 09:02:20 can'y Dec 27 09:02:24 can't, soldered. Dec 27 09:02:28 no. Dec 27 09:02:40 And whats the default user pw? Dec 27 09:02:48 the best way is to install ssh server/client and login as root Dec 27 09:02:54 Rst38h: ah Dec 27 09:02:58 installation process will ask you for a root password Dec 27 09:03:15 Oh Dec 27 09:03:24 Then i just passwd user Dec 27 09:03:31 Get it Dec 27 09:05:41 Bam, worked Dec 27 09:05:58 Gee i love roxterm in fs mode Dec 27 09:06:13 Whee, someone else actually uses it :D Dec 27 09:07:13 than the deblet freaks? ;> Dec 27 09:07:42 Yeah, I hate those people, making me put it in extras... Dec 27 09:07:58 hehe Dec 27 09:08:34 Hildonization on the program could be better but it seems people use it because it doesn't bind anything to the + & - etc keys so I don't want to bind anything to them either Dec 27 09:08:57 For sure though, not intended as a osso-xterm replacement Dec 27 09:11:53 Regarding 'putting things in extra' Dec 27 09:12:23 Do i have influence on where under my apps the new installed apps go? Dec 27 09:12:56 Depends if the person adds maemo-select-menu-location to the postinst Dec 27 09:13:07 Right now they are all under extra in the order i installed them Dec 27 09:13:24 as a rule, I always add it to any packages I do but make it run only if it's a new install Dec 27 09:13:36 I see Dec 27 09:13:56 The folder selecttion that popps up from time to time Dec 27 09:15:15 on the topic of space and word suggestions: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Virtual_Keyboard_Gestures Dec 27 09:24:13 i poked around a bit with roxterm and think i bumped into some niggles... Dec 27 09:24:45 Fire away, can't make any promises that I'll be able to fix anything :/ Dec 27 09:25:39 hang on, seems i had removed the thing... Dec 27 09:26:00 hehe, no problems if you don't have it installed :p Dec 27 09:26:26 should not take long to back in there Dec 27 09:28:54 first of there are some hardware keys that could use a bit of support Dec 27 09:29:27 Oh, I've thought of that one but it seems people use because it *doesn't* interfere and sends the keypress straight to the app Dec 27 09:29:43 s/people use because/people use it because/ Dec 27 09:29:44 qwerty12 meant: Oh, I've thought of that one but it seems people use it because it *doesn't* interfere and sends the keypress straight to the app Dec 27 09:30:03 heh, i guess its a matter of taste then Dec 27 09:31:07 hmm Dec 27 09:31:16 does r&d mode affect charging mode when it has run completely out? Dec 27 09:32:04 the different settings dialogs could maybe use a bit of love... Dec 27 09:32:44 yeah, they could do with fixing up.. only thing I did there was make it use hildon file selector rather than gtk one but I hate glade :( Dec 27 09:34:11 * Stskeeps glares oddly at the non-charging nokia Dec 27 09:36:33 Stskeeps: :( Dec 27 09:36:57 aquatix: well its my works n800, not my personal one Dec 27 09:37:03 pondering i've run into http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=148932&postcount=2 Dec 27 09:37:32 Stskeeps, what version? Dec 27 09:37:44 Stskeeps: odd Dec 27 09:38:20 qwerty12: chinook i think Dec 27 09:38:36 it just doesn't want to boot up charging after running out of power Dec 27 09:38:48 och, could be if it's an older chinook release as the nolo was messed up in that :/ Dec 27 09:39:26 is good i have two tablets.. Dec 27 09:39:39 Some report success by leaving their tablet to 'chill'... Dec 27 09:39:49 Stskeeps: maybe holding the power button for a while will wake it Dec 27 09:40:00 it randomly did with mine when i had that buggy nolo Dec 27 09:40:04 qwerty12: i'll reflash using another battery and that should help? Dec 27 09:40:47 (just got it bootíng this way) Dec 27 09:40:54 should do Dec 27 09:41:19 If you need that version, you can just flash the nolo from the next release with the fix to the bug Dec 27 09:42:01 nah, gonna flash it totally Dec 27 09:42:04 probably for the best too Dec 27 09:42:14 :) Dec 27 09:42:24 ~flashing Dec 27 09:42:25 i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Dec 27 09:42:33 Does anyone know if Roadmap works at all? Dec 27 09:42:41 It hangs at fetching maps from the server for me Dec 27 09:45:06 * Stskeeps never used it tbh Dec 27 09:47:44 feels screwed up Dec 27 09:48:06 I will just remove it Dec 27 09:48:09 Morning, all Dec 27 09:50:40 qwerty12: a normal flashing replaces nolo too? Dec 27 09:50:47 Stskeeps, yes Dec 27 09:51:02 k Dec 27 10:04:25 i wonder if this battery is simply just dead Dec 27 10:07:23 i could get the device to flash properly without issue, now it just doesnt want to charge :P or at least show it is Dec 27 10:09:05 Stskeeps, pop battery out leave it to cool properly for a few minutes put it back together and try again Dec 27 10:09:23 morning btw, hope the last couple of days were good Dec 27 10:09:32 hi lcuk Dec 27 10:09:45 hey ho Dec 27 10:10:01 mornin jaffa Dec 27 10:15:10 Stskeeps: did the battery discharge totally? Maybe you have to revivd it. But thats dangerous with those. Get a new one :) Dec 27 10:15:58 x29a_N810: certainly a possibility.. was a work n800 that didn't get much attention after i got my own Dec 27 10:16:02 Stskeeps: if nothing helps, you might try putting the battery in the freezer for a while Dec 27 10:16:15 and it does power on but doesn't get beyond nokia logo Dec 27 10:16:21 of course wrapping it so it keeps dry Dec 27 10:16:32 and it is completely freshly flashed :P Dec 27 10:16:34 Stskeeps: then it powers down again? Dec 27 10:16:39 or just hangs Dec 27 10:16:42 yeah, but occasionally boot looping too Dec 27 10:16:47 hm Dec 27 10:17:02 Good ol batts just needed 3amps for a few seconds and worked like a charm Dec 27 10:17:12 :) Dec 27 10:17:41 To clear internal crystals. But it might just as well go boom Dec 27 10:19:55 Whats draining the most power? Gps? Wlan? Backgrooundlight? Bt? Dec 27 10:20:23 hehe. always a good question Dec 27 10:20:42 and is it possible to connect an external antenna to the gps? Via the stereojack maybe? Headphones? Dec 27 10:20:58 x29: CPU in full speed mode Dec 27 10:21:14 Then backlight LEDs Dec 27 10:21:18 Then the rest Dec 27 10:21:21 400mips that is? Dec 27 10:21:27 x29a_N810: i think gps takes more than wlan and bt Dec 27 10:21:30 somewhere around that Dec 27 10:21:43 aquatix: not really Dec 27 10:21:44 Can i force it to slow speed? Dec 27 10:21:59 Cpu Dec 27 10:22:06 aquatix: gps is a receiver, not much drain there. wlan transmits at 100mW though Dec 27 10:22:14 myeah Dec 27 10:22:21 x29: Google? Dec 27 10:22:26 maybe i perceived is as such as the screen stays lit when i'm using it :) Dec 27 10:23:08 Somebody quoted N8x0 draining 2..2.5Wt at full speed with screen blazing, etc Dec 27 10:23:26 Rst38h: i try to avoid browsing while running lots of other apps. The ram is a bit undersized Dec 27 10:23:52 x29: Switch paging file on. Google. Dec 27 10:23:55 x29a_N810: it will just skip pictures when ram is full :) Dec 27 10:24:22 RST38h: does the paging file matter in terms of speed too? Dec 27 10:24:31 Rst38h: virtual ram? No that causes a lot of wd reboots Dec 27 10:24:35 it's created on the external drive right? Dec 27 10:25:01 aquatix: not really, I think it swaps rarely anyway Dec 27 10:25:11 aquatix: internal by default Dec 27 10:25:37 * RST38h enabled it on internal drive but is still a bit uneasy about swap file wearing out the internal flash Dec 27 10:26:34 yeah, me too Dec 27 10:26:38 i didn't enable it yet Dec 27 10:26:55 RST38h, you could try http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23534. Dunno if it works but 'cat /proc/swaps' should tell you if it does work Dec 27 10:26:59 won't be able to run half the games without it Dec 27 10:27:11 it works Dec 27 10:27:25 but you won't be able to connect it as USB storage any more Dec 27 10:27:40 Oh, you can fix that Dec 27 10:27:43 wait a sec Dec 27 10:28:37 In /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh, put "swapoff /media/mmc1/.swap" before "if [ $# = 1 ]; then" Dec 27 10:29:12 You may have to play with the location of the line, didn't look at the script too closely Dec 27 10:29:33 Maemo mapper can be used as a navigation system right? Is the some audi guidance support? Or different app? Dec 27 10:30:03 it can't, for all practical purposes, sorry Dec 27 10:30:18 RST38h, whilst the gps doesnt have a transmit, it does do a heck of a lot of processing and we dont know how optimal the chip is Dec 27 10:30:48 x29a: And, btw, using search feature at internettablettalk.com will answer most of your questions Dec 27 10:31:04 lcuk: TI claims that it is as optimal as it gets Dec 27 10:31:10 heh Dec 27 10:31:14 that means nothing Dec 27 10:31:23 lcuk: (at the cost of having shitty sensitivity) Dec 27 10:31:35 Rst38h: sorry for annoying you, will search then Dec 27 10:32:05 x29a: No problem, it is just that seeing the same questions for the umpteenth time is kinda boring Dec 27 10:32:20 RST38h, how do i flash my device Dec 27 10:32:37 True i understand, ive been 'on the other side' as well Dec 27 10:32:38 lcuk: Why, with a Huge Deadly laser of course! Dec 27 10:32:43 :D Dec 27 10:32:54 to be shipped with th eupcoming n900 Dec 27 10:33:08 as well as a handy shark attachment i hope Dec 27 10:33:32 wait, there was a picture of n900 leaked by the patent office yesterday Dec 27 10:33:55 lcuk: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/12/12-26-08-nokia-patent-pic.jpg Dec 27 10:33:56 don't you mean the scary foldable or something? :P Dec 27 10:34:21 Sts: yes, the one asking for a doorknob attachment Dec 27 10:34:32 seems about as practical as the rubics magic Dec 27 10:34:58 lcuk: Well I am sure you can use it for torturing people Dec 27 10:35:15 Maybe CIA will buy a bundle of 'em from Nokia Dec 27 10:35:15 http://designterminal.hu/pw/english/designed-in-hungary/rubik54.jpg Dec 27 10:35:44 lcuk: Urgh! I have seen a 2D version back in 1988 or so Dec 27 10:35:56 Didn't know he did a 3D variation Dec 27 10:37:41 yeah, it's kinda cool Dec 27 10:38:20 What is the status of Navit, anyway? Is it usable? Dec 27 10:39:06 RST38h, that is the 2d version lol Dec 27 10:39:14 you had to do it by flipping things around Dec 27 10:39:30 yep Dec 27 10:39:41 lcuk: the one I have seen required shifting 'em, not flipping Dec 27 10:39:41 there was a "hack" where you could do some warping flipping crunching sound and complete it in about 1/2 a second Dec 27 10:40:38 they were bloody dangerous i almost lost a finger in one of mine Dec 27 10:40:51 heh, you too? Dec 27 10:40:56 lcuk: Did that sound end with ct'hulhu'fht'agn? Dec 27 10:41:11 didn't play much with it, but almost hurt myself badly ;) Dec 27 10:41:21 RST38h: sounds like it, yes ;) Dec 27 10:41:37 yeah, but your description sounds more like transformers Dec 27 10:41:42 well, now we know whom Rubik worships when nobody is watching =) Dec 27 10:41:54 RST38h: of course Dec 27 10:41:59 who doesn't? :) Dec 27 10:42:05 true Dec 27 10:42:07 pastafari++ Dec 27 10:42:24 Pastafarians are actually hypocrits Dec 27 10:42:35 heh Dec 27 10:42:59 The worship the Great Tentacled One but use His false image to avoid persecution by judeochristian cabbal! =) Dec 27 10:43:13 http://www.truveo.com/Rubiks-Magic-297/id/1115618905 Dec 27 10:43:16 :) Dec 27 10:43:49 aquatix: I mean, we all know WHAT kind of "pasta" The Tentacled One prefers =) Dec 27 10:43:56 ghehehehe Dec 27 10:44:13 lcuk: meh, he almost entirely hides it with his arm Dec 27 10:44:18 lcuk: damn fast though Dec 27 10:44:30 i mentioned the fsm to someone the other day, she came back with some nonesense about some IPU Dec 27 10:44:47 aquatix, he does the secret flip thing Dec 27 10:45:02 it is too fast to notice though =) Dec 27 10:45:05 its impossible without it but you run the risk of breaking your wires Dec 27 10:45:08 ooh, the IPU Dec 27 10:45:20 lcuk: yeah Dec 27 10:45:31 or losing a limb Dec 27 10:45:42 if the wires end up being stronger? Dec 27 10:45:47 or killing a kitten Dec 27 10:45:53 RST38h: yep Dec 27 10:45:56 razor wire :) Dec 27 10:45:56 or all 3 Dec 27 10:46:03 is it a risk though? about a kitten? Dec 27 10:46:05 its already catgut Dec 27 10:46:31 so the kitten was killed simply to get you the rubics magic in the first place Dec 27 10:46:47 lcuk: in the old times, they used a goat... Dec 27 10:47:02 yeah, but goats have more coarse guts Dec 27 10:47:22 and harder to find in urban society Dec 27 10:47:27 yep Dec 27 10:47:42 but goatgut isnt as durable, and the shepards complained Dec 27 10:48:13 * RST38h remembers a panicy blog entry by some girl who watched two work migrants slaughter a goat on her way to the school Dec 27 10:48:28 :) Dec 27 10:48:47 "Ah! How can he do it in the middle of a city! Poor goat! Blood everywherrrre!" Dec 27 10:48:59 *grin* Dec 27 10:49:08 `Where else? In your bathroom?' Dec 27 10:49:17 does she think theres no blood in the countryside? Dec 27 10:49:23 heh, yeah Dec 27 10:49:30 Prolly has never been there Dec 27 10:49:33 or is it the typical out of site out of mind Dec 27 10:49:53 sight even my god i need to shoot myself Dec 27 10:50:10 lcuk: pretty much so Dec 27 10:50:11 lcuk: do those pieces of meat in the supermarket come from animals then? Dec 27 10:50:22 lcuk: don't Dec 27 10:50:31 we like you too much i'm afraid Dec 27 10:50:39 no aquatix Dec 27 10:50:42 Think of your children, etc Dec 27 10:51:16 they are grown in situ in factories, those little polystyrene trays are where the little baby steaks grow Dec 27 10:52:58 * RST38h runs SVN version of Navit and finds a map of Berlin there Dec 27 10:53:20 RST38h: now you can finally find your way to CCC? Dec 27 10:56:44 Naah, the rest of the map is missing Dec 27 10:56:51 removing navit Dec 27 10:58:03 * qwerty12 goes and makes his first python script in 6 months :/ Dec 27 10:58:27 woo Dec 27 10:58:56 * Stskeeps is cleaning out old openwrt trees Dec 27 10:59:37 heh, I hate looking through the openwrt source >.<. Downloaded a tarball to find things I could cross compile for my router and I hated it :P Dec 27 11:00:28 and pondering if i can make this etouch touch screen work.. Dec 27 11:03:53 * aquatix uses dd-wrt for his router Dec 27 11:04:08 don't want to thinker too much with it, and dd-wrt is damn nice imho Dec 27 11:13:51 PenguinTV doesn't work either, right? Dec 27 12:59:32 http://jkontherun.com/2008/12/19/foxit-eslick-cheaper-ebook-reader-alternative/ <- interesting Dec 27 13:01:21 * Stskeeps wouldn't mind to try to hack one of those Dec 27 13:01:31 Stskeeps: except that it by default only does pdf Dec 27 13:01:39 which isn't a great ebook format as it doesn't reflow Dec 27 13:01:54 * aquatix would like to do palmdoc on it too Dec 27 13:01:59 Someone will get FBReader on it :) Dec 27 13:03:12 aquatix: well with 128mb ram and 2gb sd. Dec 27 13:03:23 then it could prolly run some degree of linux.. black and white maemo anyone? ;> Dec 27 13:03:52 then again, true, not touch screen Dec 27 13:04:14 the iliad does run linux, with a wide range of formats supported Dec 27 13:04:17 tad expensive though Dec 27 13:04:42 the page says this will run 'embedded linux' Dec 27 13:05:30 mm Dec 27 13:05:37 well sd makes you wonder if it does sdio as well Dec 27 13:09:27 Stskeeps, thats cool, and greyscale as well, liqbase was specially optimized for that initially ;) Dec 27 13:11:29 oh! is that why the colour scheme is so monotonous :P Dec 27 13:15:01 well qwerty i thought there wasnt enough bandwidth for full color so set myself a greyscale target Dec 27 13:15:49 heh, I'm only jokin. Dec 27 13:16:21 * qwerty12_N800 remembers his first and only palm.. green backlight was cool Dec 27 13:16:43 * lcuk still has 2 palms Dec 27 13:16:52 * aquatix two sony clie's Dec 27 13:17:06 did you lose yours in an accident qwerty, or can you just not see it anymore cos its so hairy? Dec 27 13:18:28 lcuk, :P. I dropped it and the screen smashed lol. No big loss, I didn't have a computer at the time so no games or apps Dec 27 13:18:50 heh Dec 27 13:19:13 lcuk, thankfully, the hair on my palms is not like the hair on your face :P Dec 27 13:19:59 my monobrow and chinfluff keeps me warm in cold northwen winters. the bumfluff on your chin will grow soon Dec 27 13:21:09 Don't need it here in the south so I just go for the razor :p Dec 27 13:23:08 lcuk: you gots a goatee? Dec 27 13:23:13 qwerty12_N800, if you were a true southerner you wouldnt need to shave, your beard is pining for the fjords Dec 27 13:23:55 :) Dec 27 13:24:03 aquatix, no, but i can do a kind of combround from my eyebrows to make one Dec 27 13:24:27 lol Dec 27 13:24:29 hehe Dec 27 13:30:13 funny, after disabling my USB bridge on my work server, it stopped flowstopping at ports.ubuntu.com Dec 27 13:38:22 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/12/logos-1.jpg Dec 27 13:38:23 Hehe Dec 27 13:59:23 qgil: Comment #1 on RSS reader: Make applet fonts SMALLER. Dec 27 13:59:28 Hi, anybody found the way to get PenguinTV installed in OS2008? Dec 27 13:59:39 I installed it but it does not import feeds Dec 27 13:59:41 Just hangs Dec 27 13:59:45 There is a mail from the author saying that is in extras-devel but I don't see it Dec 27 13:59:52 it is in extras Dec 27 14:00:12 chinook extras, then? Dec 27 14:00:22 dunno, I have both Dec 27 14:00:33 heh qgil, ive got an idea - this app wants to be your baby, should we teach you how to code? :D (I really hope we find one though its a great idea in principle and appears to be where everything is headed) Dec 27 14:00:48 App manager says it is in diablo extras Dec 27 14:01:11 am I blind? "PenguinTV" is the name? Dec 27 14:01:22 Look for letter "P"! Dec 27 14:01:27 yep, in lowercase Dec 27 14:01:44 [it looks like a boob on a stick] Dec 27 14:02:05 Nothing between Panucci and Personal Launcher.... Dec 27 14:02:34 WAIT Dec 27 14:02:48 clever me... I had installed it weeks ago! Dec 27 14:03:19 hehe Dec 27 14:03:31 but it hangs anyway Dec 27 14:03:33 haha Dec 27 14:03:48 ah yes, I remember - it just dies (or something) Dec 27 14:04:26 other little problem it has is the intallaion of gtkmozembed Dec 27 14:05:01 using a renderer already present in the system would be a better idea Dec 27 14:10:55 RST38h: well, I guess the PenguinTV maintainer started with a basic port, still having in mind (obviously) the configuration that works best on the desktop Dec 27 14:12:25 lcuk: me coding - there was a time and it was a long ago but then I decided to study Journalism instead :) Dec 27 14:13:03 and what a good career you have made of it quim :) i hope your xmas is going well Dec 27 14:13:05 qgil: Most likely, yes Dec 27 14:13:13 He is not supposed to know anything about microb really Dec 27 14:17:25 RST38h: I'm really looking for a project to start with, a candidate Dec 27 14:17:46 qgil: Google Reader for iPhone page :) Dec 27 14:17:53 It is the best rss reader I have seen so far Dec 27 14:17:58 RST38h: does it work offline? Dec 27 14:18:03 Yes Dec 27 14:18:15 As long as your browser is running Dec 27 14:19:34 RST38h: well, but you reckon that depending on Google and iPhone is not the most elegant status for a Fremantle Star :) Dec 27 14:20:14 Bundyo ported a notifier for GR come think of it : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20042 Dec 27 14:20:56 qgil: All I am saying, is steal the general UI Dec 27 14:21:05 in fact penguintv already does :) Dec 27 14:22:14 ah ok Dec 27 14:23:07 qwerty12_N800: actually what we are looking for is mainly an efficient desktop plugin Dec 27 14:23:18 Starting MicroB to view the actual full newspage (like the current reader does) is probably a bad idea Dec 27 14:23:34 qgi1, fair enough :) Dec 27 14:23:40 Mostly because launching MicroB is akin to launching a space shuttle - long, laborous, dangerous process :) Dec 27 14:24:00 qgil: What is the problem with the current plugin aside from being unusable? =) Dec 27 14:24:25 RST38h: that is not a community project? :) Dec 27 14:25:14 RST38h: and for some reason I think that this plugin could be a good chance to give a try to something cross-platform Dec 27 14:25:16 qgil: it is in your power to make it one ;) Dec 27 14:25:37 well, if it is a maemo desktop plugin, it can't be cross platform, sorry Dec 27 14:25:38 RST38h: mmm yes and no, we can't create communities where there is no interest Dec 27 14:26:12 RST38h: the container not, but the mechanics? Dec 27 14:26:28 qgil: Mechanics are really simple, no real value in cross platforming them Dec 27 14:26:41 qgil: Somewhere in the file system there is an xml file with the latest haedlines Dec 27 14:26:54 qgil: You open it, parse XML (libxml) and show the headlines Dec 27 14:27:08 when the poor user clicks one, you start the real reader Dec 27 14:27:34 as it is a plugin, you want it small and fast, i.e. it has ot have minimal functionality Dec 27 14:28:20 Now, for the main reader, you MAY use penguintv, IF it can be made to work properly (does not seem to right now :() Dec 27 14:29:05 Alternatively, you can run a little local web server at some port like 8080 that will expose cached rss stories to MicroB Dec 27 14:29:14 using Google-like ajax UI Dec 27 14:29:36 I can do the ajax ui part if needed, already have it done in PackRat mainly Dec 27 14:30:13 Won't do anything unless I am sure somebody needs it though (done enough useless work on Maemo design by now) Dec 27 14:30:58 I'm still wondering in the right project to support Dec 27 14:31:18 is there anything to look on those Firefox add-ons? Dec 27 14:31:29 the web-server-based thing will probably be the easiest to do but it is really a hack Dec 27 14:31:32 is there anything to look at the KDE project, anything Qt based? Dec 27 14:31:39 FireFox addons do not work well in MicroB Dec 27 14:31:53 this might change in Fremantle Dec 27 14:32:02 QT is supported but is not a basis for Maemo apps Dec 27 14:32:17 python is not supported either, if you look this way Dec 27 14:32:20 Penguin stuff does look nice though Dec 27 14:32:30 Yes, but Python is de facto supported now :) Dec 27 14:32:37 Much like Visual Basic in Windows of old Dec 27 14:33:15 Being Qt developed by Nokia, you can consider it supported de facto in Frmantle Dec 27 14:33:24 BTW, Python has a huge drawback Dec 27 14:33:53 Long startup times. Sam Canola takes 40+ seconds to start for the first time, 20+ seconds for consequent startups Dec 27 14:34:03 speed Dec 27 14:34:18 Well, speed isn't much of a problem as you are mainly doing UI here Dec 27 14:34:24 RST38h: investing in PyPy could probably be a bonus in this area :P Dec 27 14:34:29 But 40+ seconds is WAY too long to wait Dec 27 14:34:45 Sts: Nah, I would just do it natively, in GTK. Dec 27 14:35:09 Or using a little web server as described above. Then it is basically done in MicroB directly Dec 27 14:36:07 Would stay away from Qt for now (just being careful, nothing against it) and Python (startup times) Dec 27 14:36:16 RST38h: but for something on GTK+ we have the current feed reader, isn't it Dec 27 14:36:28 qgil: Yes, if you fix it. Dec 27 14:36:37 RST38h: I'm curious about reasons to stay away from Qt Dec 27 14:36:40 qgil: and fixes are not that hard Dec 27 14:36:56 there might be a nice story behind an app born in Maemo and then being implemented in S60 as well Dec 27 14:37:20 qgil: Well, all Maemo apps are now in GTK. So, the OS keeps a copy of GTK libs in memory and everything is dandy Dec 27 14:37:41 qgil: Now, once you get at least one QT app there, you will have to have both GTK and QT in memory Dec 27 14:37:57 RST38h: i've seen python booster code too i think, isn't it used? :P Dec 27 14:38:02 (alike maemo-launcher) Dec 27 14:38:02 qgil: From what I am hearing, N9x0 will still have 128MB SDRAM Dec 27 14:38:24 qgil: Keeping TWO huge UI frameworks there + damn browserd + whatever else is a bit of an overkill Dec 27 14:38:26 RST38h: the desktop guys don't see any problem having both toolkits in memory Dec 27 14:38:49 qgil: But how much memory do they have? And at what speed? Dec 27 14:39:02 and if you think that Harmattan will have Qt officially supported (and by that time Qt will be well supported in S60), this might b a sotry interesting to someone Dec 27 14:39:09 Sts: Does not help - I have it installed. Does not do a thing according to measurements Dec 27 14:39:16 RST38h: interesting Dec 27 14:39:31 probably preloads something esle, not what Canola loads for those 40s :) Dec 27 14:39:56 i dont care which toolkit we end up using as long as the widgets are designed for touch, qt is on my tabletpc and it looks amazing and works well with mouse, but the core widgets do not respond nicely to touch yet (like lists and grids) Dec 27 14:40:57 qt and gtk are identical in this respect Dec 27 14:41:07 RST38h, canola uses a lot of efl stuff which isn't cached. also, the interpreter line has to be set properly for it to be activated on a app (#! /usr/bin/eny python2.5 or python iirc) Dec 27 14:41:29 lcuk: well, there are developers working on having Qt performing well in Maemo - how far they will go for Fremantle I don't know for sure but 'good enough' I'd say Dec 27 14:42:03 qgil: There is one more reason to use a single toolkit for the basic UI and apps Dec 27 14:42:24 qgil, its not that side of it that worries me - im sure it can be brought in nicely. its the fact something like a general list does not work with finger - apps have event handlers which do things which may prevent automatic changing Dec 27 14:42:31 qgil: However you try to sync 'em up, UIs made with QT and GTK will look and act somewhat differently Dec 27 14:43:06 we are crossing many topics here :) but Dec 27 14:43:14 heh yeah Dec 27 14:43:18 qgil: So, your product will look a bit inconsistent at some places. It is ok for third party apps, can't insure the sameness. But you don't want the basic stuff like that Dec 27 14:43:49 RST38h: I'm talking about a third party feed reader now Dec 27 14:43:58 one to beat the official one Dec 27 14:44:07 unless the community wants to take over the official one Dec 27 14:44:11 qgil: but do or don't you want it in devices sold in the stores? Dec 27 14:44:29 RST38h: if it's the best....... Dec 27 14:44:47 afternoon b-man Dec 27 14:44:54 hello Dec 27 14:44:59 qgil: then you want it to use the same toolkit as the rest :) Dec 27 14:45:29 qgil, keep pushing it and get the design right, even if noone steps up right now to make an RSS feeder, we have still documented the app and prepared it for someone who will Dec 27 14:45:49 wow, it went from sub-zero here to the mid 60s in less than a week!, i'm outside in a t-shirt! Dec 27 14:46:09 RST38h: well, it's a trade-off: if it looks good anyway and in exchange of the non-100% UI intgration you get a cool app also for S60, perhaps OpenMoko too and etc...? Dec 27 14:46:33 RST38h: at the moment I am less worried about technologies and more concerned about WHO would push them Dec 27 14:46:35 b-man: yeah, nuclear fallout sure helps, doesn't it! Dec 27 14:46:42 lol Dec 27 14:47:03 b-man: status, btw? i'm starting to being able to generate images now after fixing some bugs Dec 27 14:48:17 qgi1, I'd rather, personally, ensure that development was focused on Maemo and let another group port it to another device. At least you may get patches submitted back for bug fixes by observant developers who noticed bugs while porting Dec 27 14:48:28 i'm still working on getting a fuew bugs worked out, but don't worry though, it'l be done soon ;) Dec 27 14:48:34 b-man: alright, ta Dec 27 14:49:43 if wou want a pre-alpha version of Dec 27 14:50:03 ahhh! stupid keyboard Dec 27 14:50:19 sure, i'll review some code :P Dec 27 14:51:23 qgil: I have not seen OpenMoko can't comment Dec 27 14:51:29 i'll e-mail you it, to run it, extract it into /usr/libexec, cd into it, and run ./merinstall Dec 27 14:51:48 qgil: But about RSS reader, I think the easiest thing would be to fix the one you already have in Maemo Dec 27 14:51:58 RST38h: not my priority either, the last I hard was that they wer moving to use Qtopia Dec 27 14:52:02 qgil: Next easiest thing is to talk to PenguinTV author Dec 27 14:52:30 qgil: Next after that is to create a web-based thingie Dec 27 14:52:48 RST38h: about fixing the current feed reader, the problem is that our own team won't do much since there are other priorities that go first Dec 27 14:53:12 my notebooks are getting cabin fever since getting a tablet Dec 27 14:53:13 qgil: Understood Dec 27 14:53:25 i never take them out anymore Dec 27 14:53:34 RST38h: one possibility is there is to publish the Fremantle sources as soon as they are done and see if someone wants to take that further Dec 27 14:53:55 qgil: How about disclosing the source code to, let us say, one or two developers? Like Feed Circuit guy or Penguin guy? Dec 27 14:54:11 Maybe they will be interested in taking this on? Dec 27 14:54:12 RST38h: isn't it all open source? Dec 27 14:54:26 qgil: You just said that the current rss reader was not? Dec 27 14:54:51 RST38h: ah, the Fremantle version Dec 27 14:55:05 It's a shame the N810 will only have been supported for a year. Dec 27 14:55:13 Where as the N800 was supported for 2 .. Dec 27 14:55:29 it's progress! =) Dec 27 14:55:33 * RST38h smiles sadistically Dec 27 14:55:57 RST38h, ever build dosbox with dynrec btw? Dec 27 14:56:30 Oh, if anyone is interested. I'm pushing ruby-maemo out soon. Dec 27 14:56:46 excellent alterego Dec 27 14:56:46 RST38h: but would precisely those developers have any interest in pushing the official feed reader, which is a competitor of their apps? Dec 27 14:56:50 Just working on new packages now. Dec 27 14:57:10 solmumaha and I thank you Dec 27 14:57:18 I'm gonna have to reconnect xchat is rendering badly. Dec 27 14:57:48 RST38h: I would be happy signing some papers and disclosing some info to the developers that would bring the amazing feed reader for Fremantle Dec 27 14:57:50 pupnik: No! Dec 27 14:57:57 Yeah, I know he's personally been gagging for the i386 binaries. Dec 27 14:58:08 either developing further the official one, pushing their current project or starting from scratch Dec 27 14:58:14 Hmm, it's still rendering wrong >_< Dec 27 14:58:20 qgil: If you spin it as "merging your wonderful ideas into the official reader code" they will Dec 27 14:58:31 qgil: ;) Dec 27 14:58:50 RST38h, are there any reasonable bribes that might motivate you? Dec 27 14:59:20 who hookers! Dec 27 14:59:30 whoo hookers! even Dec 27 14:59:36 pupnik: Depends on your definition of reasonable, although it will probably make sense at 5:1 euro/dollar exchange rate =) Dec 27 14:59:41 sorry, 1:5 Dec 27 14:59:54 ok ill wait til july Dec 27 14:59:58 hehe Dec 27 15:00:15 pupnik: Why, anyway? It will be slow. Dec 27 15:00:36 on gp2x it is faster Dec 27 15:00:44 than simple core Dec 27 15:00:45 faster than without dynrec, you mean Dec 27 15:00:52 yes Dec 27 15:00:57 RST38h: http://pixelatedgeek.com/2008/12/retarded-toys-part-deux-would-you-like-childhood-obesity-with-that/ <- something in style of some of your url posts :P Dec 27 15:01:15 RST38h: we'll see - the Penguin TV answered at http://flors.wordpress.com/2008/12/26/the-uber-feed-reader/ Dec 27 15:01:42 pupnik: But what do you want to run? Dec 27 15:02:05 pupnik: 8086 CGA games are ugly. 80386 VGA games are slow. Dec 27 15:02:41 i really dont know why you lot don't put your energies into making new games Dec 27 15:02:44 286 Dec 27 15:02:46 Has anyone done any work on getting C#/Mono onto the tablets? Dec 27 15:02:59 you have seen enough games in your life to know what sort of things rock Dec 27 15:03:31 3>7" Dec 27 15:03:31 * alterego doesn't really play any games. Dec 27 15:03:38 * lcuk has never seen the appeal in emulation Dec 27 15:03:50 emus are just fun. i dont know why Dec 27 15:04:03 alterego, it was tried in 2007 i believe dont know how much further it got Dec 27 15:04:03 alterego: http://mono-project.com/Maemo Dec 27 15:04:08 alterego, mono guys have a maemo repo & a scratchbox devkit Dec 27 15:04:25 Cool. Dec 27 15:04:26 and someone ought to make thelastripper run sanely :P Dec 27 15:04:33 that'd be a killer app. :P Dec 27 15:04:46 (.. no, it's not a interactive stripper program.) Dec 27 15:04:52 Stskeeps, please! london ones are better anyway Dec 27 15:05:11 lcuk: All games have already been written =) Dec 27 15:05:37 Eesh, looks slow. Dec 27 15:05:42 * alterego sticks to Ruby ;) Dec 27 15:05:51 Sts: Actually, toy stoves that could cause real burns were WAY better ;) Dec 27 15:05:52 yes, specifically for the hardware to run well and play well. sometimes a port works, othertimes the hardware itself brings out the best in a new type of game Dec 27 15:05:53 i still think there's some merit to the thought in the post i saw on some iphone forum.. what determines the success of a mobile device is how well you can watch porn on it Dec 27 15:06:10 http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2007/11/atari_porn_games.html Dec 27 15:06:18 Sts: Of course N8x0 is better thaniPhone in that sense Dec 27 15:06:21 (right on cue!) Dec 27 15:06:38 RST38h: yeah, but it's widescreen Dec 27 15:06:45 iphone you can hide in front of you Dec 27 15:07:02 which is one reason why rotation needs to be in the OS Dec 27 15:07:04 technically with the iphone they could make the movies umm move along with you Dec 27 15:07:07 (.. not that i use my tablet for that stuff.) Dec 27 15:07:19 29 packages so far .. Dec 27 15:07:43 Stskeeps, native x11 rotation is vital in my eyes Dec 27 15:08:13 but the apps have to account for it Dec 27 15:09:34 * lcuk curses this image class not working on x86 Dec 27 15:09:48 * lcuk goes back to lines only Dec 27 15:10:32 * alterego wonders if fremantle will have gtkglext support. Dec 27 15:10:48 oo what is that Dec 27 15:10:53 clutter can exist as a gtk widget, so yeah Dec 27 15:11:02 kindof at least Dec 27 15:11:16 Yeah, I just thought that clutter used gtkglext. Dec 27 15:11:31 would be nice for a media player that uses gl textures to display album covers Dec 27 15:11:47 Would be nice for canola3 ;) Dec 27 15:11:53 then since fremantle will have clutter support you answered your own question Dec 27 15:12:00 :) Dec 27 15:12:12 I like answering my own questions. Makes me feel more clevererer Dec 27 15:12:19 canola is based on efl with evas isnt it? Dec 27 15:12:31 which has gl underpinnings as well Dec 27 15:12:42 Interesting, I had no idea. Dec 27 15:13:02 yeah i was looking at evas quite extensively and talking to ummm his name leaves me Dec 27 15:13:35 its looking like quite an interesting route Dec 27 15:14:10 since i need gl for the texture rendering and scaling over the top of the rotation it might make sense to use a 2d library Dec 27 15:14:37 or i might say bollocks to it and just use gtk + these gl extensions ;) Dec 27 15:15:20 back Dec 27 15:15:27 pupnik: Back to dosbox thing Dec 27 15:15:55 pupnik: I think you should download fMSX and try some games off ftp://ftp.komkon.org/pub/MSX/Carts/Konami/ Dec 27 15:16:21 pupnik: You will see how pointless it is to port the dosbox :) Dec 27 15:17:15 I was impressed with the android port to the N810 Dec 27 15:17:30 Even the 3D example apps were quite cool :) Dec 27 15:17:35 grrrrr must... grrr.... Dec 27 15:18:38 qgil: Good way to start is to figure out (talking to him) how ot use PenguinTV without hangups ;) Dec 27 15:20:54 hello world Dec 27 15:21:00 anyone here have time to do some research for me? Dec 27 15:21:08 i need someone to look for a date :) Dec 27 15:21:23 rst: qgil is 2hrs idle... Dec 27 15:21:33 and it's ~5:30pm on a saturday Dec 27 15:21:49 timeless, meet qgi1 :) Dec 27 15:22:12 *** gqi1 : There was no such nickname Dec 27 15:22:26 what, i have to type it correctly? Dec 27 15:22:45 ok, qgi1 is idle 20mins... he should still be doing something else on a saturday :) Dec 27 15:23:00 * timeless contemplates breakfast, lunch and dinner Dec 27 15:23:02 Heh Dec 27 15:23:21 * alterego had two crumpets and a fish finger sandwich. Dec 27 15:26:34 timeless: pong Dec 27 15:26:40 Apple are starting to get very patent happy. Dec 27 15:27:00 (I still have to investigate why do I log in her as qgi1 and not qgil) Dec 27 15:27:03 It makes me cringe when these massive companies patent things like "gestures" .. Dec 27 15:27:09 /nick qgil Dec 27 15:27:16 *** qgil : is identified to services Dec 27 15:27:22 the reason is that qgil is already logged in :) Dec 27 15:27:24 *** qgil is n=qgil@p5098cd62.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (purple) Dec 27 15:27:34 /ghost qgil (pw) Dec 27 15:27:37 from what appears to be the same host Dec 27 15:27:43 which means that purple is buggy :)( Dec 27 15:27:44 qgi1: if there's already a name 'qgil' in the server, your client might auto choose that for you. Dec 27 15:27:58 alterego: same client, same host :) Dec 27 15:28:05 Heh Dec 27 15:28:11 *** qgi1 is n=qgil@p5098cd62.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (purple) Dec 27 15:28:12 at the end it is good to be qgi1 - I can always say it was not me to said that on IRC :) Dec 27 15:28:26 Heh Dec 27 15:28:30 timeless: how can I help? Dec 27 15:28:41 qgi1: typically people will claim that host!mask idenitifies a user Dec 27 15:28:53 qgi1: someone else pinged you Dec 27 15:29:04 stop being /away ;-) Dec 27 15:29:51 * alterego starts banging head against wall. Dec 27 15:29:52 The bigger problem is qgil using pidgin :) Dec 27 15:30:12 heh, i ran into a funny little website that tells my age to the exact second, allthough i think that the numbers are totaly bogus (excluding years=16 ;p) Dec 27 15:30:19 My debian/rules file isn't working >:( Dec 27 15:30:22 in years=16; in months=192; in weeks=768; in days=5,840; in hours=140,160; in minutes=8,409,600; in seconds=504,576,000 Dec 27 15:31:01 alterego: Better massive companies than companies that don't actually make any products. Dec 27 15:31:17 derf: the icon preview one against apple/ms/google? Dec 27 15:31:24 (nokia was too small to be served) Dec 27 15:31:48 Software patents are retarded/ Dec 27 15:31:56 whats the best calendar app Dec 27 15:32:00 They stop people being able to innovate. Dec 27 15:32:04 calendar.google.com Dec 27 15:32:20 derf: You do not believe in services industry? You do not believe in solutions industry? Dec 27 15:32:22 HERETIC! Dec 27 15:32:26 ;) Dec 27 15:33:24 timeless: any opinion about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2769 ? I don't quite get it Dec 27 15:33:42 D-Pad down scrolls down Dec 27 15:33:50 that requires a web browser Dec 27 15:33:53 i'm on vacation ;-b Dec 27 15:34:07 actually no, it doesn't :) Dec 27 15:34:09 but ok Dec 27 15:34:10 (rather my web browsers are in debuggers) Dec 27 15:34:22 ah, I see what you mean now Dec 27 15:34:26 they're busy notwerking Dec 27 15:34:54 he's oresumably using an n810 Dec 27 15:35:00 except um Dec 27 15:35:01 wtf Dec 27 15:35:11 is this the right bug number? Dec 27 15:35:15 Has anyone had any issues with the location bar in the browser? Dec 27 15:35:23 can we just mark the bug invalid Dec 27 15:35:25 When I press CTRL+L it doesn't focus correctly. Dec 27 15:35:28 the reporter claims ALL/ALL/1.0 Dec 27 15:35:31 that seems highly unlikely Dec 27 15:35:35 make him file a proper bug Dec 27 15:35:48 where he actually mentions if he's using an n810 Dec 27 15:35:51 or a BT paired keyboard Dec 27 15:36:21 i suspect the problem is half reasonable if it's properly filed Dec 27 15:36:22 but it isn't Dec 27 15:36:27 and i don't appreciate poorly filed bugs Dec 27 15:36:34 it's a waste of sifk Dec 27 15:36:35 b-man: but is the "simple" tar.gz installer working? Dec 27 15:37:03 (something like karma) Dec 27 15:38:22 ok, enough Maemo for a Saturday - thanks and bye! Dec 27 15:39:06 * timeless sighs Dec 27 15:39:08 * timeless kicks a thread Dec 27 15:39:11 it's "busy" Dec 27 15:39:17 which means i can't do any "work" Dec 27 15:43:02 heh Dec 27 15:43:51 * Stskeeps waits for debootstrap Dec 27 15:49:20 Right, that's all the base packages. Now to make some pretty icons :) Dec 27 15:54:46 qwerty12, whats new with the xchat update? Dec 27 15:56:24 disco_stu, it's 2.8.6 instead of being 2.8.4 mainly. I've sorted out a few minor issues and I've made it build with the python plugin Dec 27 15:56:40 Oh, the backup tool can also backup your xchat settings too Dec 27 15:57:38 i'll give it a shot now Dec 27 16:00:32 look slower.. Dec 27 16:01:28 Seems same speed to me but it's in extras-devel yet anyway Dec 27 16:11:45 http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/absurdopedia/images/7/75/IDDQD-Bush_junior.jpg Dec 27 16:11:53 hey Dec 27 16:11:58 ha Dec 27 16:12:03 about gps w/ external antenna Dec 27 16:12:21 it is possible, just replace the small strip of gold with it Dec 27 16:12:29 (connected with that minibnc) Dec 27 16:13:48 still, it won't help all that much Dec 27 16:13:56 the gps chip is just junk Dec 27 16:14:16 you might get about 2x the sensitivity, hopefully Dec 27 16:14:25 and an unwieldy device Dec 27 16:14:51 The 5300 chip in N810 is an AGPS chip Dec 27 16:14:54 Sepcifically Dec 27 16:15:04 So using it for plain GPS is outside of its normal operating mode Dec 27 16:17:49 it's sucky even when assisted Dec 27 16:17:58 locks far too long Dec 27 16:18:12 todd normally gets us home nowadays Dec 27 16:18:15 heh, like, 2 minutes TTL Dec 27 16:18:36 AStorm: Ask your government to start a war - it will force Pentagon reconfigure its GPS constellation Dec 27 16:18:36 where good devices (e.g. MTK) go with 10s cold fix Dec 27 16:18:44 whatever Dec 27 16:18:55 good devices work well Dec 27 16:19:01 AStorm: As they pull more satellites above the area, you will get better TTLs =) Dec 27 16:19:07 yes agreed Dec 27 16:19:09 no, I won't Dec 27 16:19:31 I tested with 5sat in view and 11 sats Dec 27 16:19:36 * RST38h explodes in diabolical laughter Dec 27 16:19:37 lock time is similar Dec 27 16:19:58 and the pointless ti junk can't do more Dec 27 16:20:02 AStorm: Also depends on where satellites are. Close to horizon is more difficult to lock on Dec 27 16:20:13 I checked the map Dec 27 16:20:32 when it gets the fix, accuracy is good though Dec 27 16:20:43 yea, it is accurate Dec 27 16:20:55 but getting satellite locks is a bitch Dec 27 16:20:56 ummm, if you have already located yourself using cartographical means, could you not just use that location to get home with instead of waiting for the n810? Dec 27 16:21:12 lcuk, ... starmap Dec 27 16:21:19 positions of sats Dec 27 16:21:37 yes, I can, obviously Dec 27 16:21:42 oh yeah i know :) it would be amazing to simply take a picture of a dark sky and have computer tell you where and when you are Dec 27 16:21:48 but I want to improve openstreet maps Dec 27 16:21:56 and for that, I need working gps Dec 27 16:21:59 AStorm: Are you sure you entered the right lat/lon into A-GPS app? Dec 27 16:22:05 I did Dec 27 16:22:12 it grabs sat data immediately Dec 27 16:22:22 but locking still takes some time Dec 27 16:22:31 1-3min Dec 27 16:22:33 It takes 40-100 seconds here Dec 27 16:22:39 agps serves the same purpose as a progressbar and splash screen for apps - to distract the user whilst its working Dec 27 16:22:40 with A-GPS location known Dec 27 16:22:47 RST38h, yes, similar Dec 27 16:22:53 depends a lot on weather Dec 27 16:22:57 lcuk: They should at least use porn then Dec 27 16:22:59 I tested on overcast Dec 27 16:23:13 overcast sky increases lockon time Dec 27 16:23:28 lcuk, nah, w/o agps, it locked like, 4-6min best Dec 27 16:23:28 Meiz_n810: fixed some stuff in repository, trying to create an image now Dec 27 16:23:42 except with clear sky and many sats in view Dec 27 16:23:57 * RST38h also suspects there is some kind of radio noise source around this place Dec 27 16:24:26 RST38h, possibly, like, say, CDMA nets, cells, tons of EM Dec 27 16:24:36 a typical city Dec 27 16:24:47 Because standing in the middle of a 500mx500m open space for minutes does not get a lock even with external gps Dec 27 16:25:00 But moving to the side gets me a lock Dec 27 16:25:11 ah, no no Dec 27 16:25:19 AGPS ftw! Dec 27 16:25:23 probably the sats are at horizon Dec 27 16:25:28 and obscured Dec 27 16:25:36 Maybe. Definitely on "obscured" Dec 27 16:26:16 still, I've had mtk gps grab data in a cellar Dec 27 16:26:17 "UK culture secretary Andy Burnham calls for a website rating system similar to the one used for movies in an interview with the Daily Telegraph. He also calls for censorship of the internet, saying, 'There is content that should just not be available to be viewed.'" Dec 27 16:26:28 AStorm: Was it correct data though? Dec 27 16:26:33 yes Dec 27 16:26:44 he's a fukn idiot then Dec 27 16:26:45 SirfIII does not work in cellars, that is for sure :) Dec 27 16:26:53 moon: No, just wants control Dec 27 16:26:58 with 2.5 HDOP Dec 27 16:27:05 = idiot Dec 27 16:27:21 RST38h, sirfs are less sensitive Dec 27 16:27:29 the mtks are like 3x better Dec 27 16:27:37 * RST38h was kinda afraid to buy an mtk Dec 27 16:27:50 why? warranty issues? :P Dec 27 16:27:58 just don't trust the company Dec 27 16:28:10 I wonder what's their algorithm though Dec 27 16:28:17 must be something innovative Dec 27 16:28:17 chinese, totally opaque, produces cheap and shitty dvd chipsets Dec 27 16:28:23 i use sirf 3 and it is good Dec 27 16:28:28 it is good Dec 27 16:28:35 but mtk one is somehow better Dec 27 16:28:37 moon: Not the cellar-depth good though? Dec 27 16:28:39 no idea why Dec 27 16:28:56 hmmmmm havent tried a cellar Dec 27 16:28:56 I have no idea how they... ah I know Dec 27 16:29:08 they probably use P-data to lock Dec 27 16:29:15 as a carrier wave Dec 27 16:29:29 known trick, needs additional more expensive radio Dec 27 16:29:43 what is p-data? Dec 27 16:29:49 enrypted Dec 27 16:30:07 brb Dec 27 16:30:08 they don't have to decode it though to use it as a carrier Dec 27 16:30:31 Ah Dec 27 16:30:36 and then you can measure ionospheric distortion perfectly Dec 27 16:30:40 reducing it to 0 Dec 27 16:31:09 and also measure vertical position precisely by differential doppler Dec 27 16:31:23 AStorm <-- deep into it Dec 27 16:31:27 no Dec 27 16:31:31 I read about it Dec 27 16:31:43 very precise garmins use it too Dec 27 16:31:45 this stuff is not in the Wiki though Dec 27 16:31:50 yup Dec 27 16:31:55 and even google search is kinda terse about it Dec 27 16:31:59 the scientific grade Dec 27 16:32:05 ah Dec 27 16:32:58 also, high freq signal has better penetration and is more noise proof Dec 27 16:33:03 hmmh Dec 27 16:33:13 high feeq must have worse penetration Dec 27 16:33:15 although it does require another radio Dec 27 16:33:23 directly, yes Dec 27 16:33:29 ah, it bounces Dec 27 16:33:31 but it reflects instead of bending Dec 27 16:33:34 yup Dec 27 16:33:54 and the timing code is still precise enough to be useful Dec 27 16:34:10 there's no way bounces can slow it down enough Dec 27 16:34:40 with all this stuff, you could get 1m precision, apparently Dec 27 16:35:09 and be immune to clouds Dec 27 16:36:04 for above mentioned purposes, no doubt Dec 27 16:36:44 I should build an fpga like that Dec 27 16:36:51 patent it Dec 27 16:36:53 ... Dec 27 16:36:55 profit! Dec 27 16:37:03 ;> Dec 27 16:40:09 although I expect the chinese have patented it already :( Dec 27 16:40:12 Ahh, my scratchbox setup is awesome :) Dec 27 16:40:48 share! Dec 27 16:41:03 Well, it's probably only awesome for me :P Dec 27 16:44:44 Little things and all .. Dec 27 16:45:09 wikify Dec 27 16:45:30 like, say, Scratchbox Tips page Dec 27 16:46:00 There's a scratchbox tips page? Dec 27 16:46:18 no Dec 27 16:46:34 you get to write it, more power to you Dec 27 16:49:10 Hahah Dec 27 16:49:14 It is a good idea. Dec 27 16:50:44 Tip #1: Use SB2 Dec 27 16:51:04 (also known as the last SB1 tip) Dec 27 16:51:06 If you like to go insane Dec 27 16:51:15 sb2 isn't worth it yet .. Dec 27 16:51:30 qwerty: Better that than go braindamaged Dec 27 16:51:36 alterego: I am using it for months Dec 27 16:52:04 RST38h, Ah, but I am likely to be braindamaged over years but I will go insane in a very short time if using sb2 Dec 27 16:52:22 So you will be insane AND braindamaged. A perfect combination! =) Dec 27 16:52:59 The *only* thing I like about sb2 is that you don't have to mess around with kernel options Dec 27 16:53:11 http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/12/iron-saddle.jpg Dec 27 16:53:11 Well, I may attempt to recreate my studio environment using sb2 after I've released the next ruby-maemo release. Dec 27 16:53:28 qwerty: The main thing I like is that you can work out of your normal filesystem Dec 27 16:54:18 RST38h, oh, that's not really much of a problem for me - /scratchbox/users/faheem/home/faheem/ I keep as a nautilus bookmark and I just wget usually Dec 27 16:54:43 symlink for me. Dec 27 16:55:03 ln -s /scratchbox/users/t.swindell/home/t.swindell /home/t.swindell/scratchbox Dec 27 16:55:41 I've even got a little svn repository inside scratchbox that's symlinked to my studio home directory. Dec 27 16:56:28 meh Dec 27 16:56:40 a real vm fixes the "kernel option" problem Dec 27 16:56:44 virtualbox ftw Dec 27 16:57:21 kvm ftw :P Dec 27 16:57:29 hypervisor! Dec 27 16:57:40 F*** no, I hate using VM's. An extreme PITA and it's even more of a pisstake when I'm virtualising the same os I run. Dec 27 16:57:52 It runs as a daemon and I ssh/sshfs it :) Dec 27 16:58:25 VM's are a great idea. Allows you to move the environment between installs easily without having to reinstall the whole of scratchbox et al etc. Dec 27 16:59:16 qwerty12, meh Dec 27 16:59:33 anyway, I'd love kvm, but no VT here Dec 27 16:59:39 (yet) Dec 27 16:59:49 :) Dec 27 17:00:24 My studio environment is a KVM Debian 4.0 virtual machine. Where as my desktop install is an Ubuntu 8.10 perfect setup :) Dec 27 17:00:34 about to buy a nice lappy with 210 dpi screen Dec 27 17:00:46 bleh Dec 27 17:00:55 I'd myself run tinygentoos Dec 27 17:01:06 gentoo's package management is shit Dec 27 17:01:12 which was my own tiny shadowed uclibc setup Dec 27 17:01:15 for servers Dec 27 17:01:15 Ubuntu works out of the box. Dec 27 17:01:17 naaah Dec 27 17:01:21 AStorm, you evidently have time to kill. Dec 27 17:01:24 Heh Dec 27 17:01:25 I was able to get it shared Dec 27 17:01:33 qwerty12, not as much as earlier Dec 27 17:01:35 debian for servers .. Dec 27 17:01:45 gentoo is ghey imo Dec 27 17:01:55 alterego, trick is, you layer the system Dec 27 17:02:00 do that with debian Dec 27 17:02:09 it involves many trick mounts Dec 27 17:02:25 and either unionfs Dec 27 17:02:42 or bind mounts Dec 27 17:03:01 (and setup changes to install "overlay" to <95 Dec 27 17:03:05 Trick for what? Dec 27 17:03:07 not / Dec 27 17:03:11 Why would I need a "layed" filesystem? Dec 27 17:03:16 but somewhere else Dec 27 17:03:21 Is heirarchical not good enough for you? Dec 27 17:03:22 ease of updates Dec 27 17:03:26 it is Dec 27 17:03:42 though that needed ld.so.conf and path hacks Dec 27 17:03:43 "ease of updates" you use gentoo .. Dec 27 17:03:48 ... Dec 27 17:04:06 If a package compiles correctly, there's a 50/50 chance it'll actually install properly. Dec 27 17:04:07 at least gentoo can build such a chroot Dec 27 17:04:16 99.9999 Dec 27 17:04:29 chroot is a UNIX thing, it's not gentoo special. Dec 27 17:04:30 install is actually copy to system Dec 27 17:04:33 ... Dec 27 17:04:40 but have your pm manage a chroot Dec 27 17:04:47 have fun with that Dec 27 17:04:52 O_o Dec 27 17:05:09 yes, Gentoo's can do that Dec 27 17:05:25 (thanks to strong cross build support) Dec 27 17:06:31 although path and ld.so.conf has to be done manually Dec 27 17:06:51 and the fun part is having two etc dirs Dec 27 17:07:11 this is where unionfs works wonders Dec 27 17:07:25 (as that's not preformance intensive) Dec 27 17:07:52 * qwerty12 had unionfs running on tablet but aufs is a lot easier for the tablet Dec 27 17:09:00 for etc, both are good enough Dec 27 17:09:10 and anyway, vms on tablet... Dec 27 17:09:22 the cpu is not this kind of design Dec 27 17:09:44 although we could use a virtualizing armel like that Dec 27 17:10:22 alterego, btw, that devel setup was with Xen Dec 27 17:10:39 I've not actually tried Xen yet. Dec 27 17:10:52 it's awesome, but underdocumented Dec 27 17:11:01 and dom0 lags some kernel releases Dec 27 17:11:23 Well, KVM I've not had any issues with. Except maybe USB support. Dec 27 17:11:46 what about device delegation, full? does it work? Dec 27 17:11:57 e.g. give it whole gfx card Dec 27 17:12:07 who mentioned VMS on the tablet? Dec 27 17:12:15 RST38h, moi Dec 27 17:12:21 Who dared raising VMS from its shallow grave? Dec 27 17:12:29 VMs Dec 27 17:12:34 virtual machines Dec 27 17:12:44 not that old spectre Dec 27 17:13:35 I wonder if that jazelle buzzword could be abused for true vms Dec 27 17:13:38 Ah Dec 27 17:13:47 Jazelle can't Dec 27 17:14:05 Jazelle is basically an instruction set like Thumb but it uses stack based Java register model Dec 27 17:14:11 meh Dec 27 17:14:20 no sandboxing? Dec 27 17:14:42 well, the nextgen armel could really use virtualization :> Dec 27 17:14:43 No Dec 27 17:14:58 You do BJ